On the OTA front again...

My WRAL has been lower the last couple of days (signal levels). Last night 22 and 28 were also low. 22 was breaking up badly too, so Smallville was pretty much unwatchable :(

Not unless they kick 118.7 out of service. In order to have Raleigh HD locals right now as an existing customer you either have to already be seeing 118.7 or 61.5.

My mistake... I thought they were on 129, but you (both) are absolutely correct. (that does make them being on Ceil 2 more interesting :D )

On the OTA front again...

My WRAL has been lower the last couple of days (signal levels). Last night 22 and 28 were also low. 22 was breaking up badly too, so Smallville was pretty much unwatchable :(

The only 22's that come in well for me are either analog or off Dish... I'm hoping that when they can finally power off the analog, that they put more power back on the digital.

The only 22's that come in well for me are either analog or off Dish... I'm hoping that when they can finally power off the analog, that they put more power back on the digital.

22 seemed to be better tonight. I (we) can only hope these are the pains of pre-transition and cross our fingers that things are more stable in the next month.

22 seemed to be better tonight. I (we) can only hope these are the pains of pre-transition and cross our fingers that things are more stable in the next month.

Unless they decide to postpone the transition to try and get all the procrastinators dealt with. Then we can expect months more of this uncertainty and instability. I guess over two years of notice just isn't enough for some folks. :rolleyes:

One good place to check is Silicon Dust (http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels) ( home of the HD Homerun tuner). Their query returns digital OTA and clear QAM channels it knows about.I just noticed this mention of Silicon Dust last night. When I checked my Raleigh zip, I noticed some HD channels at QAM 123 and 124 I hadn't seen before. So I rescanned my TV today and got some new channels. Since the same three are available in 123 and 124, it's probably a TWC error they'll shortly correct. Everybody else getting them?

123.1 & 124.1 HDNET
123.2 & 124.2 HDNTM (I think)
123.3 & 124.3 TBS-HD

Yeah, it was an error. They're gone now. :(

Yeah, it was an error. They're gone now. :(

All six are gone? What a shame--having a glimpse at what could be, only to have it taken away :-(.

What's the point of TWC encrypting TBS-HD!??! (other than the obvious prodding of customers to pay for a digital cable box, though apparently that is enough)

What's the point of TWC encrypting TBS-HD!??! (other than the obvious prodding of customers to pay for a digital cable box, though apparently that is enough)

Not speaking for TWC, but probably that, plus some combination of:

- not having to worry about updating the virtual channel mappings when they move stuff around
- not having to worry about updating a second, disjoint, channel guide for people to be able to use it
- not having to educate their CSRs and techs about the different viewing experiences for those with and without a cable box.

After all, if they broadcast the digital & HD versions of their 'standard' channels in clear-QAM, any TV with both an analog cable and a QAM tuner is going to start showing the same TBS programming on three different channels, and the two digital versions aren't going to be in the same place that they are when you have a cable box. It's not something the average user is going to expect.

Not speaking for TWC, but probably that, plus some combination of:

I think most of your reasons are specious. People without boxes don't expect remapping or channel guides. I think the real reason they encrypt is because if they didn't, the would not be getting their $7.25/mo for a digital box, or $2.50/mo for a cable card from a lot of people.

BTW, does TWC allow customer owned STBs? Or are you still going to end up paying $2.50/mo for a cable card?

Drew

I think most of your reasons are specious. People without boxes don't expect remapping or channel guides. I think the real reason they encrypt is because if they didn't, the would not be getting their $7.25/mo for a digital box, or $2.50/mo for a cable card from a lot of people.

BTW, does TWC allow customer owned STBs? Or are you still going to end up paying $2.50/mo for a cable card?

Drew

As to customer owned STB's... you mean like a TiVo? TiVo owners pay for the cablecard and a digital tier fee.

As to customer owned STB's... you mean like a TiVo? TiVo owners pay for the cablecard and a digital tier fee.

No, I mean a Scientific Atlanta, just like what they'd rent you.

Drew

I think the real reason they encrypt is because if they didn't, the would not be getting their $7.25/mo for a digital box, or $2.50/mo for a cable card from a lot of people.
If they didn't encrypt TBS HD, they would not be getting $56/mo from some people. It's not just the equipment but also the service tier.

$71.95/mo for DIGIPiC 1000
versus
$15.95/mo for Basic service

If they didn't encrypt TBS HD, they would not be getting $56/mo from some people. It's not just the equipment but also the service tier.

$71.95/mo for DIGIPiC 1000
versus
$15.95/mo for Basic service

Only because they don't filter. If they didn't encrypt, they'd have to filter.

As I've said before, we've got the worst of both worlds. They're encrypting, but not giving very much granularity on what you receive. They could get almost as much granularity as they've got with their digital packages by filtering digital the way they do analog, then they wouldn't need to encrypt. I guess they just can't be bothered to do the truck rolls to do filtering correctly. But if they're going to encrypt, then I should be able to buy channels a-la-cart, and not pay for a bunch of garbage I don't want produced by companies I dont' want to support.

Drew

No, I mean a Scientific Atlanta, just like what they'd rent you.

Drew

Hmmm... I dont think they would even allow that. SA doesnt sell those to anyone but cableco's so the box would possibly be considered stolen. Im also not sure how closely those boxes follow <tru2way> (if at all) and could be customized per cable system and not even work on other systems.

If they did allow it... im sure youd get at least the digital tier charge and anything else they could whack you with :D

Only because they don't filter. If they didn't encrypt, they'd have to filter.

As I've said before, we've got the worst of both worlds. They're encrypting, but not giving very much granularity on what you receive. They could get almost as much granularity as they've got with their digital packages by filtering digital the way they do analog, then they wouldn't need to encrypt. I guess they just can't be bothered to do the truck rolls to do filtering correctly. But if they're going to encrypt, then I should be able to buy channels a-la-cart, and not pay for a bunch of garbage I don't want produced by companies I dont' want to support.

Drew

Filtering is so easy to get around they probably dont see it as effective and would surely cost a bunch to implement and get right. Encryption is sooooo much easier and flexible.

Filtering is so easy to get around they probably dont see it as effective and would surely cost a bunch to implement and get right. Encryption is sooooo much easier and flexible.

I agree that encryption is easier and more flexible than filtering. I'm not saying they should get rid if it.

However...

If they didn't encrypt TBS HD, they would not be getting $56/mo from some people. It's not just the equipment but also the service tier.

$71.95/mo for DIGIPiC 1000
versus
$15.95/mo for Basic service

That's not the right comparison for my issue about encrypting TBS HD and the like. It is $71.95 for the DIGIPiC 1000 tier vs. $56.66 for Standard tier. So you're right, it's not just the equipment rental, but the service tier change. But Basic service is already done via filtering. Otherwise there'd be no difference between Basic and Standard service.

My point is that I'm already getting TBS, TNT, CNN, Food Network, Versus, Bravo, etc. for my $56.66 Standard service. If Time Warner Cable is the home of Free HD (tm), why do I have to pay more for HD for those same channels that I'm already getting? (Yes, I know the answer to that :-( )

What happened to the Fox-50 news last night? Isn't it usually in HD?

BTW, I like WRAL's High-Def crawl on 5-1, where it is actually in high-def. It barely interfered with the program, while providing valuable information. I don't like it so much on Fox-50, where they took House out of HD to run it, and then showed the SD feed in a really tiny window, where the aspect ratio wasn't even preserved.

Drew

Hmmm... I dont think they would even allow that. SA doesnt sell those to anyone but cableco's so the box would possibly be considered stolen.

OK, then Motorola, or somebody. It just seems that if I'm going to have a box in my house, I want to own it, and I want some choice as to what it is...

Drew

...
After all, if they broadcast the digital & HD versions of their 'standard' channels in clear-QAM, any TV with both an analog cable and a QAM tuner is going to start showing the same TBS programming on three different channels, and the two digital versions aren't going to be in the same place that they are when you have a cable box. It's not something the average user is going to expect.

In addition to Drewwho's response, I'd add that this is already the situation for the stuff that is in clear QAM on TWC.

There are SD and HD digital and SD analog versions of most of the local broadcast channels already. So folks with TVs with QAM and analog tuners, but without a cable box, are already dealing with the issue you're referring to.

And if there are the HD digital versions of channels like TBS, what is the point of also carrying an SD-digital version? Is there some QAM tuner out there associated with a device that cannot display an HD channel? The main use of that I can think of is for DVRs where you can choose to record the SD version of a program where you don't care about having it in HD quality, so you don't need to re-encode at the DVR end and can save space and CPU power at the expense of consumed bandwidth.

I suspect the real reason is to be able to offer a full screen picture to folks with 4:3 displays who don't like letterboxing. But for such folks, the analog 4:3 picture should be fine (at least until analog cable goes away too), so again, there's no point to the SD digital version in your triplicate scenario (unless there are some digital cable boxes that don't also tune analog channels and need the SD digital channel for 4:3 display purposes??).

OK, then Motorola, or somebody. It just seems that if I'm going to have a box in my house, I want to own it, and I want some choice as to what it is...

Drew

A Motorola box isnt going to work on a SA head end (unless it is a <tru2way> box). Once <tru2way> boxes are available at retail you will be in the same position as if you have a TiVo.... you rent the cablecard and you own your own box. I dont think that is far off at this point so it shouldnt be long until you can do that. There is at least one TV available that is <tru2way> ready... I dont remember who makes it though.

But Basic service is already done via filtering. Otherwise there'd be no difference between Basic and Standard service.
For Basic service, the filtering applies to the analog versions of channels 25 through 74, but the digital versions of 25 through 74 are encrypted rather than filtered. So, the difference between Basic and Standard is not just filtering but also encryption.
And if there are the HD digital versions of channels like TBS, what is the point of also carrying an SD-digital version? Is there some QAM tuner out there associated with a device that cannot display an HD channel?
TWC provides many digital boxes that can only decode SD digital channels.

A Motorola box isnt going to work on a SA head end (unless it is a <tru2way> box). Once <tru2way> boxes are available at retail you will be in the same position as if you have a TiVo.... you rent the cablecard and you own your own box. I dont think that is far off at this point so it shouldnt be long until you can do that. There is at least one TV available that is <tru2way> ready... I dont remember who makes it though.

The "rent the cablecard" is what gets me. Back in the day, a cable ready TV meant you didn't need to rent anything from the cable company. I long for the 80s..

Drew

The "rent the cablecard" is what gets me. Back in the day, a cable ready TV meant you didn't need to rent anything from the cable company. I long for the 80s..

Drew

Perhaps what you are longing for is DCAS.

http://www.opencable.com/dcas/

It eliminates the cablecard.... but... you are still gonna pay for the content. You just wont need a piece of hardware from the cableco.

I don't like it so much on Fox-50, where they took House out of HD to run it, and then showed the SD feed in a really tiny window, where the aspect ratio wasn't even preserved.

Drew

The Fox-HD equipment does not support crawls in HD. Fox has told affiliates that this equipment will be replaced with new equipment that does support crawls in HD by the beginning of the Fall season.

- Trip

What happened to the Fox-50 news last night? Isn't it usually in HD?

BTW, I like WRAL's High-Def crawl on 5-1, where it is actually in high-def. It barely interfered with the program, while providing valuable information. I don't like it so much on Fox-50, where they took House out of HD to run it, and then showed the SD feed in a really tiny window, where the aspect ratio wasn't even preserved.

Drew
WRAL's crawl might look great on OTA but it sucks on TW channel 255. It is about 2 inches from the bottom of the screen and starts about 2 inches from the left. I find it very annoying. It seems to be the same crawl that they use for alerts.

WRAL's crawl might look great on OTA but it sucks on TW channel 255. It is about 2 inches from the bottom of the screen and starts about 2 inches from the left. I find it very annoying. It seems to be the same crawl that they use for alerts.

Are they different? I wouldnt expect that to be the case.

For Basic service, the filtering applies to the analog versions of channels 25 through 74, but the digital versions of 25 through 74 are encrypted rather than filtered. So, the difference between Basic and Standard is not just filtering but also encryption.
...

So it is the case that the filters applied to Basic customers' cable lines filter out only the frequencies used for analog 25 through 74 rather than everything 25 and above (presumably including where the digital channels lay)?

EDIT: I learn something new everyday. I read some info on filters and this does seem to be the case, so I guess my hopes for getting more stuff on clear QAM are dashed, at least until cable companies drop analog altogether. I'd be OK with 25-74 analog getting dropped in favor of making room for lots of digital channels in that range, blocked from Basic customers, unencrypted for those of us with QAM tuners.

Are they different? I wouldnt expect that to be the case.

I'm haven't really noticed. What I was trying to say is the crawl is very low tech. The only time I look at WRAL news is in the morning. The few times that I have looked at the evening news, the crawl is more professional. The crawl in the morning starts about two inches from the left and scrolls off the screen on the right. It is also about 2 inches from the bottom rather than at the bottom. It also is a black background with white letters. It's easy to read, it's just positioned wrong, in my opinion. It "should" be at the bottom of the screen and extend from the far left to the far right. I sent them an email once about this and their response was that they were sorry that I didn't like it. I don't think that they got my point:)

The Fox-HD equipment does not support crawls in HD. Fox has told affiliates that this equipment will be replaced with new equipment that does support crawls in HD by the beginning of the Fall season.

- Trip

I didn't know they'd be supporting HD crawls in the future. I know they don't support HD crawls now. But even given that lack of HD crawl support, WRAZ somehow managed to make it look as bad as possible. SD with a crawl over it would have been watchable. But what they did was to put the 16:9 show (House) in a tiny window, and then put the crawl on the bottom of the screen, so that much (most?) of the screen was black. At least they only did it once during House, and left 24 alone.

Could the lack of HD crawl support be the reason their 10PM local news was in SD? Or does that only affect Fox network programming?

Drew

So it is the case that the filters applied to Basic customers' cable lines filter out only the frequencies used for analog 25 through 74 rather than everything 25 and above (presumably including where the digital channels lay)?

EDIT: I learn something new everyday. I read some info on filters and this does seem to be the case, so I guess my hopes for getting more stuff on clear QAM are dashed, at least until cable companies drop analog altogether. I'd be OK with 25-74 analog getting dropped in favor of making room for lots of digital channels in that range, blocked from Basic customers, unencrypted for those of us with QAM tuners.

I think that you will never see unencrypted QAM besides the network stuff (which must be in cleartext format by law) and possibly the stuff produced in-house like News 14 Carolina and Triangle TV because most content providers porbably require encryption in their contracts with the cable companies.

In addition to Drewwho's response, I'd add that this is already the situation for the stuff that is in clear QAM on TWC.

There are SD and HD digital and SD analog versions of most of the local broadcast channels already. So folks with TVs with QAM and analog tuners, but without a cable box, are already dealing with the issue you're referring to.

And if there are the HD digital versions of channels like TBS, what is the point of also carrying an SD-digital version? Is there some QAM tuner out there associated with a device that cannot display an HD channel? The main use of that I can think of is for DVRs where you can choose to record the SD version of a program where you don't care about having it in HD quality, so you don't need to re-encode at the DVR end and can save space and CPU power at the expense of consumed bandwidth.

I suspect the real reason is to be able to offer a full screen picture to folks with 4:3 displays who don't like letterboxing. But for such folks, the analog 4:3 picture should be fine (at least until analog cable goes away too), so again, there's no point to the SD digital version in your triplicate scenario (unless there are some digital cable boxes that don't also tune analog channels and need the SD digital channel for 4:3 display purposes??).

Yes, there is plenty of legacy (pre-CableCARD) equipment for people with SD-only TVs in their house that do not have the graphics RAM to handle HD decoding. Fortunately, Time Warner Cable did not order any non-HD boxes after the FCC forced separable security. Apparently, the cost of keeping track of SD-only boxes and HD-boxes must be higher than the cost of the extra graphics RAM and the HD outputs, or they do not want to run out of HD boxes after the Christmas and Super Bowl rushes while there are plenty of SD boxes in the warehouse that nobody wants.

Also, TBS uses stretch-o-vision that is worse than the SD stuff when they must broadcast SD stuff.

...

Also, TBS uses stretch-o-vision that is worse than the SD stuff when they must broadcast SD stuff.

Ah, right, I noticed that when I was visiting family and watched some "HD" channels like, I think, Food Network HD that stretched the 4:3 show. Yuck. I switched back to the analog SD version.

I didn't know they'd be supporting HD crawls in the future. I know they don't support HD crawls now. But even given that lack of HD crawl support, WRAZ somehow managed to make it look as bad as possible. SD with a crawl over it would have been watchable. But what they did was to put the 16:9 show (House) in a tiny window, and then put the crawl on the bottom of the screen, so that much (most?) of the screen was black. At least they only did it once during House, and left 24 alone.

Could the lack of HD crawl support be the reason their 10PM local news was in SD? Or does that only affect Fox network programming?

Drew

Can't speak for their news, but if Fox 50 has done away with the analog signal path entirely (which they might have), they may not have had a way to drop to SD without doing the postage stamp thing. I really don't know for sure, but that wouldn't surprise me.

- Trip

^I think FOX Network has started letterboxing some (or all?) of their primetime shows much like NBC does. I dont think its on FOX50s end, as it has the generic FOX network bug. But yeah, would have looked better if they hadnt done a squeeze on that, and just laid it over (probably wouldnt have covered anything). Although, IMO, if you cant put up school closings without dropping to SD, then dont put up school closings...they arent that important anyhow, or they would run during the commercial breaks too.

^I think FOX Network has started letterboxing some (or all?) of their primetime shows much like NBC does. I dont think its on FOX50s end, as it has the generic FOX network bug.

But their "HD" local news has been in SD for at least the last 2 nights. So I'm assuming there must be at least some problems on their end when trying to do the closing crawl. FWIW, I agree about not showing the crawl if it is not important enough to be shown over commercials as well.

Drew

FWIW, I agree about not showing the crawl if it is not important enough to be shown over commercials as well.

With you 100% on that point. I am fine with the crawls when there is important or breaking news that needs to be shared. That stuff matters. BUT, it is amusing how often the important/urgent news is no longer for 2-3 minutes during a commercial break.

Imagine a tornado bearing down on your neighborhood but you turn on the TV during a commercial break so you don't get the info until it is too late.

Anyone having problems with ABC HD over QAM during the LOST premiere? Mine seems to be momentarily freezing and restarting - also it looks to be a bit out of sync. Anyone else? Suggestions?

Thanks.

Is anyone else having trouble with WTVD 11 OTA? It's been choppy and out of sync during prime time ABC programing for me since I tried to watch the Scrubs premier three (?) weeks ago. The local news broadcasts seem fine as was the inauguration coverage yesterday. But Lost tonight looks like it's going to be a no go. I watched the first half of the season last year no problem and haven't changed anything on my end since.

Edit: I had my post typed and tried a channel rescan and messed with my antenna a bit before I posted, so I guess others are having problems here too.

Is anyone else having trouble with WTVD 11 OTA? It's been choppy and out of sync during prime time ABC programing for me since I tried to watch the Scrubs premier three (?) weeks ago. The local news broadcasts seem fine as was the inauguration coverage yesterday. But Lost tonight looks like it's going to be a no go. I watched the first half of the season last year no problem and haven't changed anything on my end since.

Edit: I had my post typed and tried a channel rescan and messed with my antenna a bit before I posted, so I guess others are having problems here too.

just watched 2 hours of Lost without any problems on 11.1 ota

The QAM channels have always been unwatchable for me.

Did you watch any of the recap episode? I didn't bother switching back when the actual new episode started. I'm still getting all the other digital channels from that tower fine. Could they be cutting their transmit power for some reason at certain times?

I didn't have any signal problems with WTVD during Lost tonight either through my SA 8300HD or my mac QAM tuner. But I have to say... the quality of this "supposed" HD was laughable tonight. Looked to be about on par with what you can get via streaming on ABC.com (yes, I'm exaggerating a bit to make a point, but this isn't too far overboard, unfortunately). I certainly know that a well mastered DVD upscaled to 1080p would have looked better. I am going to record this on Saturday on OTA to look at the differences in picture quality. It shouldn't be that difficult to spot the changes. I don't watch much ABC, but I do know that other 720p channels such as FOX and ESPN look much better than this crap. TWC is going to get an earful from me tomorrow.

Is anyone else having trouble with WTVD 11 OTA? It's been choppy and out of sync during prime time ABC programing for me since I tried to watch the Scrubs premier three (?) weeks ago. The local news broadcasts seem fine as was the inauguration coverage yesterday.

I'm pretty sure it must be a problem with how WTVD is encoding the stream, and not a simple reception problem. Most prime-time content like Lost is "film" based, and runs at 24 frames per second (fps), while most news coverage is done digitally, at 30fps or 60fps. WTVD broadcasts in 720p at 60fps so there needs to be some conversion done to broadcast 24fps in a 60fps stream. Given what I've seen on the mythtv mailing lists, some ABC stations use a new technique where they broadcast a 24fps show at 60fps by inserting "repeat" markers on some of the frames. I think this allows them to save bandwidth over converting it to 60fps themselves before broadcast. However, this can cause problems with equipment which does not understand these "repeat" frames.

I don't watch Lost, but I told SageTV to record one on Sat at 8pm so I could run it through a tool which I (think) may detect the "repeat" frames.. Please let me know if the Sat, 8pm Lost is one with problems..

Drew

Is anyone else having trouble with WTVD 11 OTA? It's been choppy and out of sync during prime time ABC programing for me since I tried to watch the Scrubs premier three (?) weeks ago. The local news broadcasts seem fine as was the inauguration coverage yesterday. But Lost tonight looks like it's going to be a no go. I watched the first half of the season last year no problem and haven't changed anything on my end since.

Edit: I had my post typed and tried a channel rescan and messed with my antenna a bit before I posted, so I guess others are having problems here too.

Yes I've been having this problem with WTVD for several months now. It's not just Lost it is pretty much every Primetime HD show on ABC. I've been complaining about this problem for several months now on this forum. I've emailed ABC a few times about the problem and I never get a response. They are clearly doing nothing to fix the problem.

Well I've read that last night's was the first episode of Lost shot on HD cameras (30 fps) so that would explain it displaying correctly while there still being a problem with film-based content (like the recap episode footage). Given this it seems like the problem is exactly what drewwho has stated. Now who at WTVD do we throw the shoe at to get them to fix it?

Now who at WTVD do we throw the shoe at to get them to fix it?

Click on the link below. On that page there is a link for HD TV reception questions which will direct you to the Chief Engineer at WTVD. I have already sent an email complaining about the stuttering/freezing problem. I suggest everyone else that is having the problem do the same.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/feature?section=resources/inside_station/station_info&id=5777536

I contacted TWC about it last week and the technician they were going to send to our house said it was an issue with TWC and they were working on it.

Today I contacted them again today to let them know it has not been fixed yet and they said their engineers are working on it and they are supposed to let me know what is going on by tomorrow.

I guess we just have to keep on them till they fix it?

Click on the link below. On that page there is a link for HD TV reception questions which will direct you to the Chief Engineer at WTVD. I have already sent an email complaining about the stuttering/freezing problem. I suggest everyone else that is having the problem do the same.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/feature?section=resources/inside_station/station_info&id=5777536

Sent an e-mail, have a shoe ready.

melbakat, if you can get TWC to hound WTVD about this maybe something will get done faster. All indications are that it's WTVD's problem to fix.

I'm pretty sure it must be a problem with how WTVD is encoding the stream, and not a simple reception problem. Most prime-time content like Lost is "film" based, and runs at 24 frames per second (fps), while most news coverage is done digitally, at 30fps or 60fps. WTVD broadcasts in 720p at 60fps so there needs to be some conversion done to broadcast 24fps in a 60fps stream. Given what I've seen on the mythtv mailing lists, some ABC stations use a new technique where they broadcast a 24fps show at 60fps by inserting "repeat" markers on some of the frames. I think this allows them to save bandwidth over converting it to 60fps themselves before broadcast. However, this can cause problems with equipment which does not understand these "repeat" frames.

I don't watch Lost, but I told SageTV to record one on Sat at 8pm so I could run it through a tool which I (think) may detect the "repeat" frames.. Please let me know if the Sat, 8pm Lost is one with problems..

Drew

If it is your equipment that is unable to understand the "repeat" frames (which are part of the MPEG-2 specification as far as I could find out), isn't it time to get the faulty equipment's firmware updated; or if there is no way to update the firmware, to use the warranty because your equipment cannot decode legal MPEG-2? WTVD is doing nothing wrong by using repeat frames to improve image quality and throughput usage. Many TVs and other AV equipment now have a USB port or an Ethernet port to handle firmware upgrades from a flash drive or from the Internet.

If the cheap and sometimes problematic cable boxes Time Warner Cable rents out to its customers are able to handle repeat frames with no problem, there is no excuse for equipment you can buy to flunk this test. I have never seen stuttering from these boxes except when they apparently have to recover from occasional bouts of corruption caused by either too strong or too weak signals, or by corruption that arrives before the signal reaches the head-end.

You're not channel 11's engineer trying to pass the buck are you? :)

If it is your equipment that is unable to understand the "repeat" frames (which are part of the MPEG-2 specification as far as I could find out), isn't it time

I (think) my equipment works fine. At least both series (Mars, Dirty Money) I recorded all fall on ABC seemed fine. I'm just trying to help these poor people analyze their problems.

But you bring up an interesting point: What commonality is there with the people who're having problems? What hardware and/or software are you using?


Drew

You're not channel 11's engineer trying to pass the buck are you? :)

Nope. I am unemployed thanks to the rotten economy :mad: . I just think that those whose TVs are capable of handling the repeat frames would not appreciate the drop in picture quality that would result if WTVD had to repeat those frames by sending traditionally and wastefully compressed frames instead of repeat frames.

However, I feel that the blame belongs squarely on whatever is out of spec. In this case, it is the tuner or the TV that needs to be fixed (preferrably with a firmware update) or returned as having a defective design. If Scientific Atlanta's boxes are capable of dealing with this situation and cable boxes sold to cable companies generally are designed to be as cheap as possible without causing consumer rejections, I feel that a decoder that costs more to buy is not worth its price if it cannot handle this situation.

I've got a Vizio VX37L and would really like for it not to be my TV because it's out of warranty and the economy isn't any better for me. I have a tuner in my PC I can check to see if it also has a problem if I get an antenna for it.

drewwho, Lost was fine for me last fall too.

SteelWill, I have the same TV - Vizio VX37L - and I was getting the same stuttery, jerky playback on WTVD during lost last night.

This does not bode well. I saw something posted elsewhere that ABC is now using time compression and dropping frames in order to fit in more commericals, don't know if this is true, but seems like it kinda fits with what was happening.

Any further thoughts?

****.

i have to agree with jnv11. if the decoder isn't supporting part of the spec, it isn't WTVD/ABC fault. in the end though, WTVD is in business to get programming (and commercials to pay for it) to viewers. if their product isn't viewable by enough people, or if the quality of the product makes it not worth watching, WTVD suffers.

so what it comes down to, is how many decoders are out in the field can't handle it. if its a substantial number, WTVD should (and most likely will) fix it on their end by not sending "repeats". if there aren't that many tuners that can't handle it, like if its just a specific model of vizio, or if its just vizio, then WTVD will probably not change their stream. if all sony's, vizio's, and samsungs had problems with "repeats", WTVD/ABC would be stupid not to fix it on their end.

this happens all the time in the PC world. if there is enough broken hardware in the field, software gets changed to work around the problem. software is easy to change compared to hardware. analagous to WTVD changing their generated stream not to use repeats is a lot easier than having everyone buy new TVs (or upgrade their firmware for that matter).

We should really try to figure out what the problem actually is. So far, the conclusion that it is due to some TV's not handling repeat fields on 720 is a guess.

Can one of you guys with the problems watch "Private Practice" tonight? I'll record it. If you have problems, I'll run the file through some software which checks for repeat fields..

Drew

I have a Samsung 5 series TV that came out in 2008. The specs indicate it has an internal QAM tuner but not what model or type. I checked and I have the latest firmware offered by the company.

It is weird that two weeks ago the show Scrubs was just fine in HD but last week it was stuttering. Also, I get the stuttering issue on some shows on Fox HD but not all.

Someone else posted earlier that Direct tv had the same issue before and fixed it.

I'll do my best to tune in and report back to let you know if it stutters.

Thanks!

Well there's this, another Vizio + WTVD 11 problem.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1094491

I'll check out ABC tonight and see what it does.

Ugly Betty, Grey's Anatomy, and so far Private Practice all fine for me. I got my PC tuner set up so if I have problems again I can see if it's just the TV.

Well drewwho, Private Practice appears to be working fine for me so far, not a stutter or out of sync voice. Looks like they may just be using the repeat frames or time compression or whatever on LOST, as I have not noticed this on other shows.


Don't really know what else to try, may just have to see what happens next week.

Same here. This is the first time since I first started having the stuttering problem that Grey's Anatomy actually went a whole episode without it happening. However I won't be satisfied if the problem still persists with Lost next week.

I watched Lost, and Grey's this week, both DVR'd via Dish using the Sat channels (not OTA which the Dish box will also record).. no issues with either.

I have a Vizio GV47LF. I have had this same "jumpy picture" problem with WRAZ (Fox 50.1). It only happens in the evening (5PM-8PM). None of the primetime show ever have the problem.

I purchased a DirecTV h20 (the one with the OTA tuner) and it doesn't experience the problem. I can switch my antenna back to the TV tuner directly, and the problem comes back.

I called Vizio, and the guy basically said that the tuner in the Vizio isn't that good. He said it meets minimum specifications and that is it.

OK, I've deleted last night's PrivatePractice w/o looking, since it was reported to be OK.

As to Fox50: I had problems under MythTV with 24 syndicated reruns in the wee hours on Fox50 roughly a year ago. This was before I had the tool to look for the repeat frames, but I suspect that it was the same problem. I'll record a 21/2 Men tonight at 7:30, and see what the mpeg tool says.

As to why the cheap cable boxes don't have the problem, but some TV's do: I suspect it is the power of volume purchases. If a bunch of people have problems watching ABC (or ESPN-HD, or whatever) via their cable boxes, they complain to the cable company. Eventually, the problem makes it to somebody with a clue at the cable company who analyzes the stream, and notices that the cable boxes from vendor X are out of spec. They complain to the vendor, who pays *really* close attention, since the cable company is their biggest (only?) customer. Then the vendor issues a f/w update to fix it ASAP. Speaking from experience, you don't ignore your biggest customers, especially if they provide you with a test case, and the bug is your fault!

Now, compare this to some people watching OTA or QAM with their TV's tuner. The TV manufacturer will see some complaints, but they are sporadic, and from customers scattered around the country. The customers probably don't understand the problem, and it can be chalked up to "reception issues" or a "weak signal", and blamed on the TV station. In most cases, I doubt they even call the TV manufacturer and complain. There is little incentive to fix the problem that there is no test case for, and which is reported by only a few customers.. It isn't like there is a multi-million dollar per-quarter of sales to a single affected customer that will fall through unless you keep them happy and fix this issue, like there is for a cable box vendor.

Drew

I just received a follow up email from the Chief Engineer at WTVD. He said they "have made a change in one of their encoder settings" and to let them know if it helped. It's nice to know that they are looking into the problem and they are trying to fix it. Greys and Private Practice looked fine last night, so maybe it got fixed, but nevertheless I am gonna wait until I see Lost next week.

Although, IMO, if you cant put up school closings without dropping to SD, then dont put up school closings...they arent that important anyhow, or they would run during the commercial breaks too.

Speaking of this, I just got a note from my son's daycare, saying they are withdrawing from the WRAL closings listings: "WRAL TV5 has limitations in the information that it can transmit and also has a number of other inadequacies. We will no longer use WRALas a communication tool." and they will instead rely on other means (phone messages, web site). Now if we could just get everybody else in the area to withdraw, we wouldn't have to worry about school closings wrecking our HD experience :)

Drew

OK, using dr1394's tools (flags.zip and eovb_demux.zip from w6rz.net) it seems like Fox50 is using "fancy" encoding, and putting repeat flags in their stream for their syndicated reruns (at least of 2 1/2 Men recorded tonight at 7pm, which I was pleasantly surprised to find in HD). FWIW, flags on the demuxed video from 2 1/2 Men show numerous frames like this:

GOP size = 15, byte index = 185004796
Tref = 0, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 133200
Tref = 1, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 117104
Tref = 2, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, I frame bits = 242832
Tref = 3, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 148880
Tref = 4, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 149664
Tref = 5, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, P frame bits = 320768
Tref = 6, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 177296
Tref = 7, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 229408
Tref = 8, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, P frame bits = 325120
Tref = 9, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 225984
Tref = 10, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 235520
Tref = 11, TFF = 0, RFF = 0, PF = 1, P frame bits = 318304
Tref = 12, TFF = 0, RFF = 0, PF = 1, B frame bits = 149312
Tref = 13, TFF = 0, RFF = 0, PF = 1, B frame bits = 161072
Tref = 14, TFF = 0, RFF = 0, PF = 1, P frame bits = 496192

If I understand things correct, the RFF is the repeat first field flag. It is (nearly) always zero in many other recordings from "simple" channels, like PBS, 22.1 and 28.1, and Fox network primetime.

Also, mplayer (which doesn't understand the repeat fields) shows the classic symptoms of this when trying to play it back, always complaining about transitions between 48fps and 60fps.

demux_mpg: 24000/1001fps progressive NTSC content detected, switching framerate.
V: 0.5 547/310 ??% ??% ??,?% 0 0
demux_mpg: 30000/1001fps NTSC content detected, switching framerate.
Warning! FPS changed 47.952 -> 59.940 (-11.988010) [7]
V: 1.8 719/430 21% 1% 0.0% 0 0
demux_mpg: 24000/1001fps progressive NTSC content detected, switching framerate.
V: 2.0 729/440 21% 1% 0.0% 0 0
demux_mpg: 30000/1001fps NTSC content detected, switching framerate.
Warning! FPS changed 47.952 -> 59.940 (-11.988010) [7]
V: 3.2 801/512 24% 1% 0.0% 0 0

I checked a Fox network primetime recording (Bones from Thurs night), and it had only a tiny number of frames with the RFF flag set. I suspect these were from local commercials inserted by WRAZ (just guessing), but they were not really used in show.

So I guess Vizios really do have problems with repeat fields in 720p HD. You guys need to complain loudly. Maybe there is a firmware upgrade.

Drew

Are the Raycom games not in DD? I'm only getting DPL for NCSU vs BC. Checked OTA and via Dish.

I have a favor to ask. I found out they are doing a retrospective on Kay Yow, the NC State women's basketball coach who passed away today, on ESPN Classic at 6pm. We don't get ESPN Classic. Could someone record it and send it to me? If so PM me. Alternatively if someone who is watching would listen to find out if it's going to be rebroadcast on ESPN or ESPN2 that would be great (we get those two channels).

Does anyone ever lose their surround sound capabilities when WRAL flashes their station identification on CBS broadcasts?

I just received a follow up email from the Chief Engineer at WTVD. He said they "have made a change in one of their encoder settings" and to let them know if it helped.

I caught part of the Lost rerun last night on WTVD and it was perfect, no skipping! I am glad they fixed the issue.

I caught part of the Lost rerun last night on WTVD and it was perfect, no skipping! I am glad they fixed the issue.

Your television is what is broken, not their signal.. You should be complaining to Vizio.

Drew

Does anyone ever lose their surround sound capabilities when WRAL flashes their station identification on CBS broadcasts?

Yep... and sometimes it gets annoying when they switch it on and off a few times.

Are the Raycom games not in DD? I'm only getting DPL for NCSU vs BC. Checked OTA and via Dish.

Just a nitpick... but the games are in Dolby Digital. They just are in Dolby 2.0, instead of Dolby 5.1 surround.

Your television is what is broken, not their signal.. You should be complaining to Vizio.

Drew

We probably should post this info in another forum to get all the Vizio owners on board then. HDTV Technical maybe? The big Vizio threads in the Display Devices forums? How can this just be cropping up now, these TV's have been produced for years and have a decent user base.

Just a nitpick... but the games are in Dolby Digital. They just are in Dolby 2.0, instead of Dolby 5.1 surround.

My receiver reports it at Prologic and not DD ?

The reason I asked is that it seems like I hear noticeable shifts.. a small gap and then the audio sounds different.. when I then look at the rcvr, it shows Prologic C.

Maybe its all the same thing, dunno.

We probably should post this info in another forum to get all the Vizio owners on board then. HDTV Technical maybe? The big Vizio threads in the Display Devices forums? How can this just be cropping up now, these TV's have been produced for years and have a decent user base.

This is just speculation, but I suspect the repeat fields are being added by a changed default in a hardware or software upgrade of local encoding equipment, so only a few markets would be affected at a time. Further, there are only a two major sources of OTA / clear QAM 720p, and at least one of them (FOX) rigidly controls their primetime MPEG2 encoding, and doesn't let their affiliates change anything locally for primetime broadcasts. So this issue would like affect only ABC viewers during primetime, and only on those channels with newer or upgraded encoder hardware or software. Eg, the problem would be fairly rare and elusive...

Drew

Well it's also happening for me on WRAZ 50 during this and the previous movie they've shown today. Checked them on my PC tuner and it's fine. I'm looking to drop my Dish in the next month or so so not getting reliable OTA is going to be a big deal to me. :(

My receiver reports it at Prologic and not DD ?

The reason I asked is that it seems like I hear noticeable shifts.. a small gap and then the audio sounds different.. when I then look at the rcvr, it shows Prologic C.

Maybe its all the same thing, dunno.

Could just be a setting on your receiver. My Sony audio receiver is set so that when Prologic is turned on, it applies that and tries to extract extra channels from a Dolby 2.0 source. My audio receiver still correctly identifies the 2.0 source though... it just tries to make 4 or 5 channels out of it where it can.

Maybe your receiver just doesn't display the source as 2.0, and always indicates it is applying the ProLogic technology?

Could just be a setting on your receiver. My Sony audio receiver is set so that when Prologic is turned on, it applies that and tries to extract extra channels from a Dolby 2.0 source. My audio receiver still correctly identifies the 2.0 source though... it just tries to make 4 or 5 channels out of it where it can.

Maybe your receiver just doesn't display the source as 2.0, and always indicates it is applying the ProLogic technology?

All I know is that many programs show as Dolby Digital. Others cause it to show ProLogic. The games were showing up as Pro Logic, not DD.

As it happens, the rvcr went belly up today, so I can't test any more until it comes back from warranty repair. Simply reporting what I observed.

All I know is that many programs show as Dolby Digital. Others cause it to show ProLogic. The games were showing up as Pro Logic, not DD.

As it happens, the rvcr went belly up today, so I can't test any more until it comes back from warranty repair. Simply reporting what I observed.

Technically, Dolby 2.0 would most likely be Dolby Pro Logic. Pro Logic is designed so that the extra audio channels (a center and a mono surround) are matrix-encoded into a standard stereo audio stream. If your receiver doesn't support ProLogic, you see it as stereo (and in this case, it might display as Dolby 2.0 for some people I'd imagine if the receiver won't automatically apply it). If your receiver can do Pro Logic, it will decode those extra 2 channels and then display Dolby Pro Logic.

So, Dolby 2.0 can be Dolby Pro Logic, or it can be standard stereo, it probably just comes down to if your receiver automatically detects the Pro Logic encoding and enables it, or if you might have to manually do it, but it's not easy to tell them apart.

All I know is that many programs show as Dolby Digital. Others cause it to show ProLogic. The games were showing up as Pro Logic, not DD.

Dolby Digital is not just 5.1. Dolby Digital can be a single channel, 2.0 or 5.1. It's all Dolby Digital.

I've seen the same thing happens on my receiver. It will indicate a Dolby Digital broadcast but only as the two channel version of DD. At which point it will convert to PLII and display the signal as such because I've told it to automatically decode DD 2.0 sources that way.

Dolby Digital is not just 5.1. Dolby Digital can be a single channel, 2.0 or 5.1. It's all Dolby Digital.

I've seen the same thing happens on my receiver. It will indicate a Dolby Digital broadcast but only as the two channel version of DD. At which point it will convert to PLII and display the signal as such because I've told it to automatically decode DD 2.0 sources that way.

That's how my receiver handles it... it still tells me what the source signal is, but automatically applies the ProLogic II to it. I was thinking maybe zim2dive's receiver is functioning properly but just not displaying the source when it applies ProLogic to it.

That's how my receiver handles it... it still tells me what the source signal is, but automatically applies the ProLogic II to it. I was thinking maybe zim2dive's receiver is functioning properly but just not displaying the source when it applies ProLogic to it.

Which is very likely. Some receivers might not display both the signal source and the processing at the same time. I can't remember what my previous receivers did. It's not a mistake to have DD 2.0 as we've mentioned. We've become so accustomed to Dolby Digital being automatic shorthand for 5.1 surround, when it isn't used that way flags get raised.

I do know that I only noticed the DD 2.0 output in the past couple of months while I was watching CSI on A&E HD. Up until then I've just assumed all HD channels were 5.1 because everything I remember watching in HD up until then was outputting 5.1. I did a double take when I noticed PLII on the display at the same time as DD until I noticed it was 2.0 over Time Warner.

Since CSI:Miami is 5.1 on network I'm wondering who is knocking it down to stereo. Is it TWC or A&E?

I have a favor to ask. I found out they are doing a retrospective on Kay Yow, the NC State women's basketball coach who passed away today, on ESPN Classic at 6pm. We don't get ESPN Classic. Could someone record it and send it to me? If so PM me. Alternatively if someone who is watching would listen to find out if it's going to be rebroadcast on ESPN or ESPN2 that would be great (we get those two channels).
It wasnt really a restrospective, it was just 3 classic Kay Yow games (1998 Regional Semifinal versus Old Dominion, 1998 Regional Final versus UConn, 2007 Second Round versus Baylor). This is pretty standard for what they do when an important sports figure passes, just as TCM will do a movie marathon of an actor/director when they die.

That's how my receiver handles it... it still tells me what the source signal is, but automatically applies the ProLogic II to it. I was thinking maybe zim2dive's receiver is functioning properly but just not displaying the source when it applies ProLogic to it.

Its a Denon, and the models have gotten progressively less user-controllable about what how they handle the input signal :) (ie. back in the day there was a nice analog/digital button so you could force it to digital.. now some days its all you can do to trick it back in to digital mode).

so I still think "analog" when I see ProLogic flash up, but maybe I need to re-educate myself.

Like I said, the thing that was throwing me off was the audio pause/gap, after which it seems like I'd "lost" some audio info and had shifted "down" to a 2-channel version. I thought I had noticed similar behavior with the resolution changes for the crawls, etc.

or not :)

I just read the senate passed a bill to delay the DTV switch to June 12 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601984.html). Assuming this is signed into law, what will it mean locally? Will some stations move forward with the Feb 17 switch, or will everybody wait until June 12? I hope the local broadcasters will keep us informed of when they intend to switch to their post-transition frequencies, and we need to rescan.

FWIW Even though I think the transition plan was flawed, I think adding another delay would add even more uncertainty to the process. I wish they'd just get on with it. The only thing I'm remotely concerned about in my setup is if my CM4228 will be able to get WTVD when they start broadcasting digital on VHF 11. I need to find an analog receiver and check the signal..

Drew

I just read the senate passed a bill to delay the DTV switch to June 12 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601984.html). Assuming this is signed into law, what will it mean locally? Will some stations move forward with the Feb 17 switch, or will everybody wait until June 12? I hope the local broadcasters will keep us informed of when they intend to switch to their post-transition frequencies, and we need to rescan.

FWIW Even though I think the transition plan was flawed, I think adding another delay would add even more uncertainty to the process. I wish they'd just get on with it. The only thing I'm remotely concerned about in my setup is if my CM4228 will be able to get WTVD when they start broadcasting digital on VHF 11. I need to find an analog receiver and check the signal..

Drew

I don't know - maybe we all ought to bombard them with inquiries ?

I for one want this over and done with on Feb 18 - one final channels scan for all the digital tuners and then I don't have to worry about it ever again. And getting them off the channels 52-69 will be a boon for those of us using inhouse modulators for video distribution (like DBS). I suppose I could tolerate the nightlight service that was proposed, but this delay is just so wrong...

I just read the senate passed a bill to delay the DTV switch to June 12 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601984.html). Assuming this is signed into law, what will it mean locally? Will some stations move forward with the Feb 17 switch, or will everybody wait until June 12?

Well, just to muddy the waters even further, the Senate version allows stations to switch to digital only any time between Feb 17 and June 12. So, someone like WRAL, who is running at a lower power and lower antenna position until the change can jump on Feb 17 to digital only at full power.

So, this means that some stations may disappear (from analog), while others remain, probably confusing the public even more.

A quote I read online today summed it up: "Do we really think anything will be much different on June 12th than Feb 17th?"

Well, just to muddy the waters even further, the Senate version allows stations to switch to digital only any time between Feb 17 and June 12. So, someone like WRAL, who is running at a lower power and lower antenna position until the change can jump on Feb 17 to digital only at full power.

So, this means that some stations may disappear (from analog), while others remain, probably confusing the public even more.

A quote I read online today summed it up: "Do we really think anything will be much different on June 12th than Feb 17th?"

I'm getting the feeling we really don't want to know....

Since CSI:Miami is 5.1 on network I'm wondering who is knocking it down to stereo. Is it TWC or A&E?

I have Dish Network, and A&E HD is only Dolby 2.0 there as well. I'm pretty sure that they haven't broadcast any Dolby 5.1 since launching the channel, so Time Warner is likely broadcasting the same thing as I am seeing on Dish.

Its a Denon, and the models have gotten progressively less user-controllable about what how they handle the input signal :) (ie. back in the day there was a nice analog/digital button so you could force it to digital.. now some days its all you can do to trick it back in to digital mode).

so I still think "analog" when I see ProLogic flash up, but maybe I need to re-educate myself.

Like I said, the thing that was throwing me off was the audio pause/gap, after which it seems like I'd "lost" some audio info and had shifted "down" to a 2-channel version. I thought I had noticed similar behavior with the resolution changes for the crawls, etc.

or not :)

I had to get used to it myself... When I first got my Sony years ago, I didn't turn on the ProLogic at all thinking it would just butcher everything. I eventually actually read about it and found that it would pass 5.1 as it received it... and only processed the 1.0 or 2.0 or 4.0 signals with the ProLogic stuff... so then I turned it on and forgot about it.

I do see what you are talking about lately on WRAL when they drop from 5.1 to 2.0 when running a crawl. Volume level changes whenever they change from one format to another and it can be distracting.

I'm getting the feeling we really don't want to know....

Everyone is right. The delay will add uncertainty and confusion. The provision to allow the change anytime between the original date and the new is likely there to aid those stations and tower owners who have already set new plans into place to continue. Some endeavors take a great deal of planning and coordination among various contractors that just can not be stopped or changed very easily. I expect a good many of the stations to shutdown pretty close the original deadline. I could be wrong about that but either way it will be interesting to watch.

This 'change' also allows the current political persons on both side of the aisle to say - "We put in more time for the the transition, we are sorry if some mean old broadcasting company pulled the plug on you too early."

No doubt many companies have already signed deals to shutdown, re-purpose, sale or destroy a lot of the old equipment and not all of those plans can be changed, especially < 25 days out. Once you are within 30 days of contract execution you usually can not back out without significant cost penalties.

I'm about to go slightly off-topic here, but hopefully someone can help me out:

I've had TWC internet in Durham/Southpoint for several years with no problem. For the last couple of months the primetime performance has been steadily declining, and right now I can't get a speed test to break 1mb, and I'm having significant gaming latency (latency doubled tonight between the 6pm and 7pm hour). Does this mean my node is saturated (or whatever the correct terminology is)? This is true when bypassing router and disabling AV software etc, by the way.

If so, can anyone give me any advice for navigating Time Warner customer support in such a way that I could get anything done about it?

I'm about to go slightly off-topic here, but hopefully someone can help me out:

I've had TWC internet in Durham/Southpoint for several years with no problem. For the last couple of months the primetime performance has been steadily declining, and right now I can't get a speed test to break 1mb, and I'm having significant gaming latency (latency doubled tonight between the 6pm and 7pm hour). Does this mean my node is saturated (or whatever the correct terminology is)? This is true when bypassing router and disabling AV software etc, by the way.

My service started capping out last month at 3Mb when it should be 5 and I thought it was either a crowded node or TWC capping the service. The truck roll tech just replaced the old modem and it went back to normal.

I think they've been making some config changes at their end.

Thanks, VisionOn. How hard was it for you to get a tech to come out? I just tried customer support, got India (really, not being snide), and they want me to go through the troubleshooting script and I'm not in the mood, especially since bypassing my router is a pain in the ass. My cable modem as of a few months ago is an "Ambit", I just now realized while talking to the tech that for the first time I don't have a Surfboard. I'd just go and swap it out, but the last time I did that they promised at the kiosk that the modem was already provisioned, and it wasn't and it took me three days and several hours on the phone to get anyone at Time Warner who knew what 'provision' meant. I wish I was in any exaggerating, but I'm not--and we had to eventually scream at someone on the sales phone number to even get that done.

Sorry--ranting here. Best strategies for getting a tech to come out? I guess I'll have to play nice with the tech support script? Any suggestions welcome, here or PM, and I'll off-topic no more.

Sorry--ranting here. Best strategies for getting a tech to come out? I guess I'll have to play nice with the tech support script? Any suggestions welcome, here or PM, and I'll off-topic no more.

I just explained the speed drop, told them I ran speedtest and they ran some tests on the line, I jumped through hoops of unplugging router and modem (which I already had done myself) and when they got the same speed results back they agreed to send a tech out.

Now being that this is TWC it obviously wasn't that easy. When I got transferred to another Business Class tech to make an appointment I had to go through the exact same procedure again before they scheduled my appointment for the day after and the tech they sent wasn't told it was a Business Class account so that involved some phone tag on his part. Nice guy though. Swapped out a four year old Surfboard for one of the current models.

Getting any type of tech support over the phone is a chore whether it's cable or internet. Especially now they've made the automated system that voice activated pain in the ass. Which I'll be having to use again this week to cancel some channels.

Which brings me to another point. The HD delay that TWC have had getting movie channels has really cost them in my house. I can't cancel the service to switch providers but 14 months ago I had HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Flix and Encore and also used MoD. Now I just have HBO, will shortly be kicking Encore and never use MoD.

I got so tired of waiting for HD versions of most of those channels to appear that I joined Netflix for Blu-ray and ever since then I've been canceling movie channels continuously. Even if TWC now have Starz and Cinemax it's too late and I won't ever go back to TWC for movies.

Thank you very much for the info.

I go through an on/off relationship with their cable television service. I had it completely off for a while, just the clear QAMs that came in with the internet service, have it back on for now. I'll probably get fed up with them by summer and shut it off again. :)

The Dish HD lineup always makes me sad.

I hope the local broadcasters will keep us informed of when they intend to switch to their post-transition frequencies, and we need to rescan.

FWIW Even though I think the transition plan was flawed, I think adding another delay would add even more uncertainty to the process. I wish they'd just get on with it. The only thing I'm remotely concerned about in my setup is if my CM4228 will be able to get WTVD when they start broadcasting digital on VHF 11. I need to find an analog receiver and check the signal..
Drew

I can't imagine staggered conversion is going to be better for non-technical consumers than the original plan.

FYI I get a pretty strong signal on WTVD 11 VHF analog from both my CM4228 and my Yagi UHF antenna; we live close enough that I expect you'll get similar.

Is there a list somewhere of what the final assignments (UHF or VHF) will be for the local stations after the Feb/June/whatever transition?

Is there a list somewhere of what the final assignments (UHF or VHF) will be for the local stations after the Feb/June/whatever transition?


OTA HD

4-1 WUNC PBS 59 > 25
5-1 WRAL CBS 53 > 48
11-1 WTVD ABC 52 > 11
17-1 WNCN NBC 55 > 17
22-1 WLFL CW 57 > 27
28-1 WRDC MyNetworkTV 27 > 28
30-1 WRAY Independent 42
50-1 WRAZ FOX 49

The first number is the current channel with the number after the > being the post transition channel.

OTA HD

5-1 WRAL CBS 53 > 48
<...>
50-1 WRAZ FOX 49


I thought I read somewhere that for UHF, the lower the channel, the stronger it was going to be, all other things being equal. Is that true? If so, how did WRAL, the HD pioneer, get stuck with 48?

Drew

Everyone is right. The delay will add uncertainty and confusion.

Well maybe some people may be thinking straight in DC, for now it looks as though the provision to extend the transition has been defeated.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/111/house/1/votes/41/

I thought I read somewhere that for UHF, the lower the channel, the stronger it was going to be, all other things being equal. Is that true? If so, how did WRAL, the HD pioneer, get stuck with 48?

Drew

Per watt... true... But the stations will be allotted Transmitter power limits based on their coverage allotment so I dont believe it really matters much. With WTVD going to 11... they are going to be in the biggest bind. UHF antennas have little gain down in the VHF area so anybody that has already gone with a UHF only antenna may have issues with them.

WRAL would have been in a world of hurt if they went back to VHF-Lo 5.

OTA HD...

Thanks. Guess I will need a VHF and UHF capable antenna!

Just a couple of random things I've come across the last couple of days.

1) Time Warner relaunched their website today. Good luck finding anything on it. One of the things mentioned on the site is that TW will be adding the ability to add recordings to your DVR through the web. My guess is we'll see that about the same time we see Start over. I was just glad to see they didn't get rid of the channel change info page. That can now be found here. Lots of OnDemand stuff being added soon. http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

2) For any Bobcats fans out there(if there are any), Time Warner has added a channel to carry all the Bobcats games that were on SportsSouth and not available here. That info can be found here. http://blogs.newsobserver.com/sportsmedia/more-bobcats-games-on-tv-here

I thought I read somewhere that for UHF, the lower the channel, the stronger it was going to be, all other things being equal. Is that true? If so, how did WRAL, the HD pioneer, get stuck with 48?

Drew

It's true. I've seen accounts of a signal on channel 28 on a shorter tower making it further than a channel 56 on a taller tower, both at 1000 kW.

WRAL ended up with it because it's what was available.

Poor WRAL has had the most channel numbers of any station in recent history. Analog on 5, digital signed on 32, then moved to 53, now to 48.

- Trip

No problems with with Scrubs last night or Lost tonight, so yay. And I e-mailed WRAZ about my problems with them so hopefully that will get sorted too.

I know that this subject has been beat to death here, but I still think that this thread should be split into two threads, OTA and TWC and Satelite. I am a TWC person and have no interest in all of the OTA discussions here and I would suspect that the OTA people have no interest in the TWC and Satelite discussions. It just makes sense to me.

I know that this subject has been beat to death here, but I still think that this thread should be split into two threads, OTA and TWC and Satelite. I am a TWC person and have no interest in all of the OTA discussions here and I would suspect that the OTA people have no interest in the TWC and Satelite discussions. It just makes sense to me.

I'll muddy the waters.. Dish (satellite) is gracious enough to supply a DVR that can handle its service *and* OTA... so I'm interested in both.

I'll muddy the waters.. Dish (satellite) is gracious enough to supply a DVR that can handle its service *and* OTA... so I'm interested in both.

I'm sure that there are some people who are interested in both, but I still think that it would be good to have two threads. You could still visit the thread that you were interested in at a particular time, or both. I find that the discussion here seems to be mostly focused on OTA, i.e. which is the best antenna, channel lineups, that seem to be changing constantly, etc. I don't think that OTA represents the majority of users, it just seems to be the area that is most problematic. After all, the name of the thread is Raleigh, NC-HDTV, not Raleigh NC-OTA Reception, however this subject seems to dominate the discussions....just my opinion.

Why just two threads? Why don't we split into six threads? OTA, Dish, DirecTV, Verizon FIOS (that'll be a short thread), AT&T, and TWC.

I have TWC and OTA and like seeing both conversations. I've also had DirecTV (again with OTA) and am considering moving to Dish (still with OTA). Having all the conversations together gives me better information without having to visit multiple threads.

Why just two threads? Why don't we split into six threads? OTA, Dish, DirecTV, Verizon FIOS (that'll be a short thread), AT&T, and TWC.

I have TWC and OTA and like seeing both conversations. I've also had DirecTV (again with OTA) and am considering moving to Dish (still with OTA). Having all the conversations together gives me better information without having to visit multiple threads.


Yep...it also helps troubleshoot transmissions problems with one view of a thread.

I know that this subject has been beat to death here, but I still think that this thread should be split into two threads, OTA and TWC and Satelite. I am a TWC person and have no interest in all of the OTA discussions here and I would suspect that the OTA people have no interest in the TWC and Satelite discussions. It just makes sense to me.

Then just read the TWC threads in all the other forums. Like the rest of us do.

Why just two threads? Why don't we split into six threads? OTA, Dish, DirecTV, Verizon FIOS (that'll be a short thread), AT&T, and TWC.

I'm sure NBC17ENG will love having to read six threads to get some transmission feedback. ;)

OK, OK, it was just a suggestion and I STILL think that it's a good idea. If you look at other threads, such as receivers, TV's, etc., they are divided into subfolders. If you would apply the same thinking there, I guess they should all be dumped into one thread. I have been out voted so I'll just shut up.

Then just read the TWC threads in all the other forums. Like the rest of us do.

There are really (at least) 2 questions
1. Should things be categorized and split out?
2. If so, what would the categories be?

Here is the breakdown for the Charlotte area:

Charlotte, NC - AT&T U-Verse
Charlotte, NC - TWC
Charlotte, NC - OTA
Charlotte, NC - Charter

I am a member on other forums where everything was all together. That worked best when the volume was small. As the amount of content and specific detail increased, things were subdivided for easier lookup by topic of interest. At first it seemed a pain to have to look in different areas but it was an adjustment that most folks seemed to be able to make without great angst. Even those that were around when the forum began. (Old dogs, new tricks? :) )

Bob

There are really (at least) 2 questions
1. Should things be categorized and split out?
2. If so, what would the categories be?

Here is the breakdown for the Charlotte area:

Charlotte, NC - AT&T U-Verse
Charlotte, NC - TWC
Charlotte, NC - OTA
Charlotte, NC - Charter

I am a member on other forums where everything was all together. That worked best when the volume was small. As the amount of content and specific detail increased, things were subdivided for easier lookup by topic of interest. At first it seemed a pain to have to look in different areas but it was an adjustment that most folks seemed to be able to make without great angst. Even those that were around when the forum began. (Old dogs, new tricks? :) )

Bob

This is what I was trying to say but Bob said it better. There are approx. 370 pages in this thread, more than I think anyone wants to wade through to find posts that pertain to their particular situation. Maybe some have the time, but I don't.

This is what I was trying to say but Bob said it better. There are approx. 370 pages in this thread, more than I think anyone wants to wade through to find posts that pertain to their particular situation. Maybe some have the time, but I don't.

Why is that a problem? There's a perfectly good search tool at the top of each thread.

I am a member on other forums where everything was all together. That worked best when the volume was small. As the amount of content and specific detail increased, things were subdivided for easier lookup by topic of interest. At first it seemed a pain to have to look in different areas but it was an adjustment that most folks seemed to be able to make without great angst.

And what happens when say FiOS is announced in Raleigh? Where do you look? If the thread doesn't already exist does that mean it has to be posted in every other thread devoted to broadcasting in this area? What about a TWC Raleigh story related to Uverse? Both threads?

Really I don't understand why this keeps coming up. You want specific TWC news, read a TWC thread where most of us on here post the same info for nationwide readers and feedback. It's not as if there's massive flood of advancement to keep up with related to TWC or even HD in this area.

If you don't have OTA you should be reading it anyway because it often pertains to how everyone in this area will receive the broadcast, even if it's over cable. When a transmission issue occurs it gets posted here. Sometimes directly from the station engineers. And that news is relevant to everyone, regardless of how you receive it.

..........Really I don't understand why this keeps coming up...................

I think that it keeps coming up because some of us would like to see this thread subdivided. It's obvious that you are strongly opposed to this, but maybe everyone doesn't feel the same way. Yes, people can search through this thread, but why should they have to? It would be easier if this thread were divided into 3 or 4 separate categories.

I think that it keeps coming up because some of us would like to see this thread subdivided. It's obvious that you are strongly opposed to this, but maybe everyone doesn't feel the same way. Yes, people can search through this thread, but why should they have to? It would be easier if this thread were divided into 3 or 4 separate categories.

Tommy - I think (could be wrong) that you're the only one who keeps bringing this up. It's obvious that the majority of us feel that it's either OK, or they don't care enough about it to voice an opinion. If there was enough other people who wanted it that way - whatever. You can count me in the "I don't have an opinion about this".

I think that it keeps coming up because some of us would like to see this thread subdivided. It's obvious that you are strongly opposed to this, but maybe everyone doesn't feel the same way. Yes, people can search through this thread, but why should they have to? It would be easier if this thread were divided into 3 or 4 separate categories.

So go create a thread for TWC in Raleigh. What's stopping you?

When we have more than one local cable provider and three people with U-verse I might share the need to splinter the info but as long as TWC is the only game in town and their HD lineup accelerates by 5 channels every 4 months I'm pretty confident I can keep up with the breaking news. You can tell how much breaking Raleigh HD news there is in this thread just by how often this argument has to be played out.

"Why should they have to search?" Well that's just a dumb statement regardless. That's the cause of hundreds of posts repeating the same questions over and over and over throughout AVS.

You should head over to Fredfa's HotP one thousand page thread (part 2) and see how your request plays out. You can ask him to sort it by cable, satellite, network etc. to save some search time. That should go down really well. :rolleyes:

Tommy - I think (could be wrong) that you're the only one who keeps bringing this up. It's obvious that the majority of us feel that it's either OK, or they don't care enough about it to voice an opinion. If there was enough other people who wanted it that way - whatever. You can count me in the "I don't have an opinion about this".

I don't know that I have ever brought this up before. I may have voiced my opinion when the subject came up, I don't honestly remember. I rarely come to this thread any more because the discussion here is mostly OTA. Maybe others that are interested in something beside OTA, have moved to another thread. If everyone here is happy the way it is, it's fine with me. I thought that my suggestion was very logical, but guess not. There's one here who does not tolerate someone with a different opinion than his and starts throwing in the smart a## coments. I didn't come here to get in an argument. I'm done..he can have his thread back.

Thanks. Guess I will need a VHF and UHF capable antenna!

I finally figured out how to use the analog tuner on my combined digital/analog tuner card, and WTVD-11 seems to be coming in fine for me with my attic mounted CM-4228. Granted, it is a clear day but it seemed just as strong, if not stronger, than Fox-50 for me..

Drew

I don't know that I have ever brought this up before. I may have voiced my opinion when the subject came up, I don't honestly remember. I rarely come to this thread any more because the discussion here is mostly OTA. Maybe others that are interested in something beside OTA, have moved to another thread. If everyone here is happy the way it is, it's fine with me. I thought that my suggestion was very logical, but guess not. There's one here who does not tolerate someone with a different opinion than his and starts throwing in the smart a## coments. I didn't come here to get in an argument. I'm done..he can have his thread back.

You can have whatever opinion you like but you're not complaining about the quality of the HDTV situation in Raleigh you're complaining about the thread not being the way you like it because you don't want to use the search button.

As stated if you'd been paying attention the reason this thread is mostly about OTA is because TWC does not progress fast enough for there to be any developments to report. It's exactly the same for the rest of HDTV in Raleigh. The only segment of the HD market that does change frequently (especially with the switch) is the OTA element.

When TWC does something worth reporting this thread will become more relevant to your needs and OTA will take a back seat. You should know that if you've been reading this for as long as you say you have. Don't blame the thread for inactivity, blame TWC for taking so long to progress.

And on another note has anyone anywhere seen any signs of U-Verse life? I noticed a couple of AT&T "fiber" trucks working in Chapel Hill but that could have been for anything.

You can have whatever opinion you like but you're not complaining about the quality of the HDTV situation in Raleigh you're complaining about the thread not being the way you like it because you don't want to use the search button.



There really is no "right" or "wrong" way to categorize or find information, usually just a matter of personal preference. If you need confirmation of that, try to find stuff on other people's c: drives! :)

As far as folks not wanting to use the SEARCH function, here is a list of thread titles within the Local HDTV Info and Reception subforum for locations that have decided that they do NOT want to rely exclusively on the SEARCH function:

Chattanooga TN-OTA
New York, NY - OTA
Los Angeles, CA - OTA
San Francisco, CA - OTA
St. Louis, MO - OTA
Pittsburgh, PA - OTA
Atlanta, GA - OTA
Chicago, IL - OTA
Charlotte, NC – OTA
Seattle, WA - OTA
Sacramento, CA - OTA
Denver, CO - OTA
Hartford, CT - OTA
Philadelphia, PA - OTA
Norfolk, VA - OTA
Houston, TX - OTA
Boston, MA - OTA
Nashville, TN - OTA
Minneapolis, MN - OTA
Portland, OR - OTA
Long Island, NY - OTA
Central New Jersey - OTA
Orlando, FL – OTA
Denver, CO – OTA

It does not mean that Raleigh does it better or worse, just different than the areas above.

Bob

As far as folks not wanting to use the SEARCH function, here is a list of thread titles within the Local HDTV Info and Reception subforum for locations that have decided that they do NOT want to rely exclusively on the SEARCH function:


Holy crap. :rolleyes:

While you were compiling that list did you also notice that they have more than one cableco/telco service and an OTA actually providing local HD?

If Raleigh ever gets lucky enough to have more than one cable/fiber provider with widespread availability then splitting this thread will be the only way to go. Right now I couldn't care less when anyone uses the excuse "I don't want to search" because that's just lazy.

I'm tired of this now. Like I said before if you want to start a new thread go right ahead because talking about why this thread should be split or not is just emphasizing how little HD news there is to report in this area.

Holy crap. :rolleyes:

While you were compiling that list did you also notice that they have more than one cableco/telco service and an OTA actually providing local HD?



Actually, I did not notice. I used the search function to quickly find OTA topics! :D

I agree that it will be more valuable when there is more differentiation than OTA and TWC. Thanks for the discussion.

Bob

Is the UNC @ NCSU game really not in HD on ABC today?
Didn't see it listed on http://www.hdsportsguide.com/ either. :mad:

All things considered, this thread isn't really all that active (it's been on the same page number for several days now, for example).

I'm interested in multiple aspects of local information (TWC, OTA, and a few people who are using the same HTPC software I am). I think multiple threads would be a mistake and would result in one thread or the other dying.

All things considered, this thread isn't really all that active (it's been on the same page number for several days now, for example).

I'm interested in multiple aspects of local information (TWC, OTA, and a few people who are using the same HTPC software I am). I think multiple threads would be a mistake and would result in one thread or the other dying.

Agreed. Not enough traffic to worry about, it's easy to follow along. It's at 360 pages because it's been around for a few years...

Agreed. Not enough traffic to worry about, it's easy to follow along. It's at 360 pages because it's been around for a few years...

And easy enough to follow, by checking every few days. Not enough new HD or local competition to generate a lot of posts (unfortunately)

I have TWC and I'm wondering why I haven't got the new software update on one of my boxes yet. I got the update with the new menu interface on the box in the living room a month ago and it has been working fine, but the one upstairs still has the old version and has been freezing and acting up with the recordings. I'm wondering if there is any way to force my box to update? I've unplugged it and let it reboot but it's still the same.

I have TWC and I'm wondering why I haven't got the new software update on one of my boxes yet. I got the update with the new menu interface on the box in the living room a month ago and it has been working fine, but the one upstairs still has the old version and has been freezing and acting up with the recordings. I'm wondering if there is any way to force my box to update? I've unplugged it and let it reboot but it's still the same.


Are they both 8300HD boxes?

Are they both 8300HD boxes?

The one upstairs is a 8240hdc and i think the one downstairs is a 8300hd.

The one upstairs is a 8240hdc and i think the one downstairs is a 8300hd.

The latest version of ODN, which will run on the 8240HDC, is buggy in regards to eSATA. This is my guess as why the update is held back. However, the 8300HD runs MDN for legacy boxes.

My guess is that you have a bad 8240HDC and need to swap it out.

:D
Glad to see the topics stay the same (splitting the thread) even though this thread has been on the same page for 7 days.
Actually no one should have to search the thread; there's not a lot of relevant information on a topic that should be ever evolving, unless you want a list of TWC HD channels they have been the same since the first few pages. :)

http://news.google.com/?ncl=1300516389&hl=en&topic=h

Since the bill allows broadcast stations to make the switch before June 12 if they are ready, I expect we're in for some chaos if local broadcasters move one by one to their post-transition digital frequencies. It would be great if the engineers from the local stations publicized their stations' plans in one central place. (like this thread)

Drew

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/04/its-official-dtv-hard-date-moved-to-june-12/

It won't change a thing. Millions of Granny's will not be ready no matter what date they set.

I guess it took me more than a minute to type my message. :(

Since the bill allows broadcast stations to make the switch before June 12 if they are ready, I expect we're in for some chaos...

I wonder who will go early and why. If all go early but one in this area except... say NBC 17; will they gain viewers (albeit slow uneducated viewers)?
Will there be a back lash to wral if they go early? Will all stations play it safe and wait to the eleventh hour?
I bet you won't see any station go early unless it effects their bottom line keeping both analog and digital up simultaneously.

I wonder who will go early and why. If all go early but one in this area except... say NBC 17; will they gain viewers (albeit slow uneducated viewers)?
Will there be a back lash to wral if they go early? Will all stations play it safe and wait to the eleventh hour?
I bet you won't see any station go early unless it effects their bottom line keeping both analog and digital up simultaneously.

Isn't WRAL on lower power and/or lower antenna until the transition? I bet they would love to jump ASAP to full power.

Isn't WRAL on lower power and/or lower antenna until the transition? I bet they would love to jump ASAP to full power.

They are full ERP but on a lower antenna with a half circle pattern. No coverage to the east.

They cant change from 52 to 48 until until other stations using 48/47 move also....

When the do change.. they will be on half power but using full circular pattern antenna (same transmitter power as now except over full circle instead of half).

Right now, they're on a temporary antenna ¾ of the way up the tower which is directional, as scsiraid said. It's at full power, but the height and directional pattern make it difficult to receive in some areas.

There are two stations blocking them from channel 48. One is WMYV in Greensboro, who has already stated they will terminate their analog signal on February 17. Assuming that doesn't change, they're a non-issue.

The other is WCTI-DT in New Bern. They need to flash-cut back to DT-12, and may not want to terminate their analog on time. No idea yet what they'll be doing.

On channel 48, they'll operate from the top of the tower again, omnidirectional, and as scsiraid said, they'll start off at 500 kW until they get some equipment sorted out, and then they'll return to 1000 kW.

- Trip

A couple of questions about my TWC service in Cary...

1) I have one box (SA 8300 HD/DVR). On channels 58-60, I will sometimes have unwatchable service. There will be no audio and the picture will be frozen or severely pixelated (sp). I've gone into the service menus and the signal strength and SNR look good (using info posted earlier in this group). Other times, it will be fine. I have rebooted the box numerous times as well as calling Customer Service. After going through their scripts, they just want to send out a service tech. Is it really the box?

2) On a TV without a box, I notice synch errors between the audio and video. Usually, the audio is behind the video. I often see this on ABC news at 6:30, as I am often watching that TV then. Is it worth calling them on that (meaning, will they do anything) ?

Thanks for a great group/thread. I've learned a lot by reading this. :)

Thanks to both scsiraid and Trip in VA for the WRAL insight.

-Matt

If all go early but one in this area except... say NBC 17; will they gain viewers (albeit slow uneducated viewers)?


Aren't slow, uneducated viewers the most desirable, because they're more swayed by advertisements? ;-)

Drew

Aren't slow, uneducated viewers the most desirable, because they're more swayed by advertisements? ;-)

Drew

There are advertisements on TV? Oh...those must be the things I skip over to get back to what I WANT to watch. ;)

Aren't slow, uneducated viewers the most desirable, because they're more swayed by advertisements? ;-)

Drew

You may have just made a light bulb go off in one the station managers head. :(

I don't guess there is anything illegal about ALL the stations in this area getting together and deciding to drop analog together on a certain date or dates. Sure for PR they may want to give granny an extra few weeks or month but all the stations cutting the cord together will be a more seamless transition.

All Obama did was allow those using the vouchers to buy boxes to sell on ebay more time to operate. :confused:

If anybody in Raleigh is going to be "stuck" - it's going to be WRAL. On the plus side - WRAL is probably the best station in the area for "Nightlight" type service.

Everybody else's destiny is in their own hands - WRAL has to wait for WCTI in New Bern to move off of 48 back to 12 before they can finalize DTV.

22 and 28 - both of these are owned / managed by Sinclair. 28 is moving back to 28 when they shut off analog, and 22 is moving to 27, 28's pretransition assignment.

11 and 17 - both of these are going back to their old analog channels, after they shutdown analog

WRAZ is already on their final assignment (49), as is WRPX (15). They can shutoff analog whenever and just keep doing their digital as is. So is WUVC (38) in Fayetteville.

The UNC stations are a bit of a mess.

FWIW, I have TWC basic in Cary (Kildaire Farm area) and lost both TV & internet last nite from a few minutes before 900p to a few minutes before 1000p.

I guess they just don't want me to see Life. ;)

If anybody in Raleigh is going to be "stuck" - it's going to be WRAL. On the plus side - WRAL is probably the best station in the area for "Nightlight" type service.

Everybody else's destiny is in their own hands - WRAL has to wait for WCTI in New Bern to move off of 48 back to 12 before they can finalize DTV.

22 and 28 - both of these are owned / managed by Sinclair. 28 is moving back to 28 when they shut off analog, and 22 is moving to 27, 28's pretransition assignment.

11 and 17 - both of these are going back to their old analog channels, after they shutdown analog

WRAZ is already on their final assignment (49), as is WRPX (15). They can shutoff analog whenever and just keep doing their digital as is. So is WUVC (38) in Fayetteville.

The UNC stations are a bit of a mess.
???
Ok so 11 is going to VHF?
I thought once we were all digital it was all going to be on UHF at least for a while. Then maybe another public awareness campaign for those stations that are moving down to VHF (so I can go buy another antenna).
Explain it to me like I am a 6 year old, which I may be (ain't anonymity great). :)

We should have some answers late tomorrow how this market will go. The station managers are meeting this afternoon. As for the Engineers, we're all set to go for 2-17.

There are other factors to consider, like the 3.6% of Nielson households that are not ready. That's a big number considering a little over 500 boxes rate what you see so do the math. 1 Nielson household is critical. This adds up to 19. Of those it is almost equal between age groups.

The Gov didn't fix the problem. The problem is over 5,000 or so viewers in this market on a waiting list to receive their coupons. That is still going to take 6-8 weeks after they start sending them in the mail, then they have to go shopping.

Stores aren't re-stocking supplies since they expected 2-17 to be the day. There should be enough for everyone now, but they will go fast once those coupons arrive.

Antennas remain a huge issue. Experts expected 20% would convert to cable or satellite over this conversion. It is now expected less than 10% will change to pay services. There's many reasons, but surely the economy is a big factor. Keep in mind also that Raleigh-Durham-Fayetteville has the highest percentage of OTA households in the entire state.

I object to any term of "less intelligent" viewers. Maybe it's my hours of GE diversity and sensitivity training, but it is not accurate or necessary. I admit we are helping people on the phone now that can't read to hook up their boxes, but they are just as intelligent in their fields as anyone else. They are not technically inclined, in a bad spot, and we are helping them the best we can. The actual numbers are evenly distributed across all age and educational levels, but the more mature group is better prepared than the younger group.

I've been using my blog to help folks get ready and keep them updated with what's going on on our website at www.dtv.myncblogs.com That's where I've been hanging out, well, there and Wake Med's ED after my heart attack New Years Day!:rolleyes:

We've found most UHF antennas pick up channel 11 just fine. The wavelength for the frequency of 11 is twice as long as our ch 17 wavelength. Since most antennas work well with half or quarter wavelengths, it picks up fine on a UHF only antenna.

Ok - that's just wierd - Raleigh / Durham / Fayetteville highest in OTA for the state AND the state as a whole is one of the highest penetrations of DBS in the country -

I know engineering is ready, but you guys don't control the purse strings. I personally just want a "This is what Raleigh stations are doing" announcement, even if it is not my desired outcome. I understand business decisions have to be made with making a profit in mind.

???
Ok so 11 is going to VHF? <...>

See scsiraid's post a few pages back, with the post transition frequencies:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15675139#post15675139
WTVD is the only station going back to VHF. This concerned me a bit too, but I see a very strong signal for analog VHF 11 with an analog tuner using my UHF CM-4228 antenna in the attic. So I think many people will be fine with their existing UHF antennas. The best test would be to try to pick up WTVD analog and see how your antenna does..

Drew

There are other factors to consider, like the 3.6% of Nielson households that are not ready. That's a big number considering a little over 500 boxes rate what you see so do the math. 1 Nielson household is critical. This adds up to 19. Of those it is almost equal between age groups.


Thanks for the update, and we wish you a speedy recovery. One thing has me confused though.. Can you explain what the above paragraph is trying to say? What adds up to 19? Where does "500 boxes" come from?


Drew

Nielson has about 550 boxes tied to TV sets in scientifically determined homes that transmit viewing data to them. It records every show they watch and reports back readings each day. That's how they make up the ratings for the market instead of the old diarys people used to write in.

Those of you with Pre-amplifiers at your UHF antenna, just be sure it is for BOTH VHF and UHF or you will not get a signal on 11. or any other VHF down east.

A couple of questions about my TWC service in Cary...

1) I have one box (SA 8300 HD/DVR). On channels 58-60, I will sometimes have unwatchable service. There will be no audio and the picture will be frozen or severely pixelated (sp). I've gone into the service menus and the signal strength and SNR look good (using info posted earlier in this group). Other times, it will be fine. I have rebooted the box numerous times as well as calling Customer Service. After going through their scripts, they just want to send out a service tech. Is it really the box?


I had a practically identical problem the last few weeks with my SA 8300HDC DVR box. Channels 57-60 broke up, both picture and sound. Some days it would work, some days not. I called TWC and had a technician come out. He didn't like the RG/59 cable I had between the wall and the box and and replaced it with his RG/6 cable. He showed that the inner wire diameter was noticably smaller on my cable and said RG/59 cables didn't offer a reliable connection.

So far (5 days) I've seen no further problem.

I see in the Charlotte TWC thread they list these as test channels
1001 - USA-HD
1002 - SciFi-HD
1003 - CNBC-HD
1004 - Bravo-HD

Any idea what they would be for us in the Raleigh, Goldsboro area?

I see in the Charlotte TWC thread they list these as test channels
1001 - USA-HD
1002 - SciFi-HD
1003 - CNBC-HD
1004 - Bravo-HD

Any idea what they would be for us in the Raleigh, Goldsboro area?

Raleigh is supposed to get those channels on Feb 13

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

Raleigh is supposed to get those channels on Feb 13

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

Yes, I know. Back when the olympics were on right before SDV was here we could tune to something like 750-760 and see the channels before they were actually added to the guide. Like above with 1001 being one of the new channels to be added. :p

I see in the Charlotte TWC thread they list these as test channels
1001 - USA-HD
1002 - SciFi-HD
1003 - CNBC-HD
1004 - Bravo-HD

Any idea what they would be for us in the Raleigh, Goldsboro area?

Channels aren't up in Charlotte. If you read a few post above the one that gives the channel numbers you will see that just the the channel banners are available at channels 1001 through 1004 but the actual channels haven't been turned on yet.

Charlotte has tested all the new channels that have been added in the past couple of months and I have never been able to find them anywhere here. If you tune to channel 1200 there is a test channel there but never been able to find any others.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4479012/

State to begin handling cable TV complaints

Increasing competition means communities across the state soon will have less input into what their local cable television companies air and how much they charge for their services.

Under a 3-year-old state law, as soon as a competitor emerges for an incumbent cable provider, the cable company can terminate its municipal franchise agreement.

Time Warner Cable canceled its agreement with Raleigh last week, a month after AT&T rolled out its digital television system in the Triangle. Time Warner's franchise agreement was previously scheduled to expire in November.

The move means Raleigh can no longer require Time Warner to provide service to low-income or low-density areas or resolve customer complaints, said Michael Williams, cable administrator for the city.

"A certain amount of regulation seems to be required," Williams said, noting the city handled about 50 to 60 complaints each year from cable customers. "We'll see how much regulation is required for this industry."

Time Warner spokeswoman Andi Curtis said she didn't think customers would see any problems with the shift.

"I think that it's going to be seamless. We'll provide that customer service for them. They can go to our Web site (or) come to a customer care center," Curtis said. "We believe in competition. It's good for consumers, and we are ready."

The state Attorney General's Office will handle all consumer complaints for areas where the local cable franchise has been canceled.

Channels aren't up in Charlotte. If you read a few post above the one that gives the channel numbers you will see that just the the channel banners are available at channels 1001 through 1004 but the actual channels haven't been turned on yet.

Charlotte has tested all the new channels that have been added in the past couple of months and I have never been able to find them anywhere here. If you tune to channel 1200 there is a test channel there but never been able to find any others.

Thanks for the info.;)

Curtis said. "We believe in competition. It's good for consumers, and we are ready."

Hahahahahahaha ...

that's funny because it contradicts exactly what was stated in their earnings report earlier in the week. That they don't believe in being competitive with DOCSIS 3.0 broadband rollouts because the customer doesn't really need it. The only reason they will deploy better technology is in directly competitive areas.

Until U-verse is doing anything to remotely make a dent in TWC subscriber base in Raleigh we are guaranteed to be considered as not a competitive market. Until then I predict TWC wil be raising rates exponentially to scrape as much out of the existing customer base as they can.

A couple of questions about my TWC service in Cary...

1) I have one box (SA 8300 HD/DVR). On channels 58-60, I will sometimes have unwatchable service. There will be no audio and the picture will be frozen or severely pixelated (sp). I've gone into the service menus and the signal strength and SNR look good (using info posted earlier in this group). Other times, it will be fine. I have rebooted the box numerous times as well as calling Customer Service. After going through their scripts, they just want to send out a service tech. Is it really the box?

2) On a TV without a box, I notice synch errors between the audio and video. Usually, the audio is behind the video. I often see this on ABC news at 6:30, as I am often watching that TV then. Is it worth calling them on that (meaning, will they do anything) ?

Thanks for a great group/thread. I've learned a lot by reading this. :)
I've noticed the exact same thing out here near Zebulon. I've just gotten around the ch. 58-60 problem by running the coax into the TV to receive the analog signal. Easier than dealing with a service tech call IMO.

But, last night and this morning I noticed that ESPNHD was dark on my 8240HDC. That's a new problem I have not had before. All other HD channels appear to be coming in fine, as usual. Have any of you guys had this issue in the Raleigh area?

Nielson has about 550 boxes tied to TV sets in scientifically determined homes that transmit viewing data to them. It records every show they watch and reports back readings each day. That's how they make up the ratings for the market instead of the old diarys people used to write in.

i think the boxes are used to determine the "overnights". in other words, the quick and dirty viewing stats published the next day. because the sample size is so small, the ratings are very rough, and prone to large error. the other problem with boxes (or at least a few years ago), was that they weren't compatible with time shifting devices (DVRs). thus, the overnight numbers aren't measuring the eyeballs of a large statistical group of the viewing audience (tech savvy people with DVRs).

nielson still uses diaries, or at least they did a few months ago, as i was doing a diary for a week. the diaries record the effects of time shifting. they use other scientific measurements to determine how many of those time shifting are actually skipping commercials (not all DVR users skip commercials). then they use data form the diaries and the boxes to come up with the real numbers that are published a week or so after the actual viewing week. the real numbers include the stats for live watching, delayed watching and also viewing commercials, delayed watching and skipping commercials.

I've decided to try the AT&T U-Verse website last night and it said it was available for me. I can get more channels for less money, but I don't see it as trivial to compare yet. Anyone tried as well?

I also heard some horror stories about the new boxes they have to install. It would be nice to know of some places around that area that are subscribing to U-Verse and see if the boxes are really that big. The U-Verse DVR seems to be much more capable than the TWC.

Francisco

I've decided to try the AT&T U-Verse website last night and it said it was available for me. I can get more channels for less money, but I don't see it as trivial to compare yet. Anyone tried as well?

I also heard some horror stories about the new boxes they have to install. It would be nice to know of some places around that area that are subscribing to U-Verse and see if the boxes are really that big. The U-Verse DVR seems to be much more capable than the TWC.

Francisco

I switched to U-verse two weeks ago, and I'm very happy. The picture is fine, and the dvr box is much smaller than the TWC box. I don't think I got a new box though, I think it is the one they have been using for a while. There are around 90 channels of Hi-def, if you include the east and west feeds of the premium channels. I have the internet service as well. It is a bit faster than road runner. I saved about 60 dollars a month.

There are around 90 channels of Hi-def <...>I have the internet service as well. It is a bit faster than road runner

They send their TV signal via IP, don't they? So I wonder.. Does the HD signal impact your internet speed? Eg, is your internet speed degraded when recording or watching a live HD broadcast? How many HD boxes can you have, and/or how many HD channels can you record at once.

Somewhat off topic, but what is your internet speed like in general? How are the upload speeds?

Thanks,
Drew

They send their TV signal via IP, don't they? So I wonder.. Does the HD signal impact your internet speed? Eg, is your internet speed degraded when recording or watching a live HD broadcast? How many HD boxes can you have, and/or how many HD channels can you record at once.

Somewhat off topic, but what is your internet speed like in general? How are the upload speeds?

Thanks,
Drew

Yes, the TV signal is via IP. The HD signal doesn't seem to impact the internet speed at all. You are limited to 4 "streams", 2 HD and 2 SD. Your dvr can record 4 channels at once, but you can't watch live tv at the same time if you are recording all 4. You can watch from the dvr during recording. I have 5 boxes, the dvr and 4 others. All of the boxes are capable of HD, and they have an ethernet port on the back if you don't want to use the wireless router which is incorporated into the modem. You can control the dvr from any room in the house. You cannot, however, pause or rewind live tv except from the dvr.
As for the internet speeds, I get 17265 down, and 1464 up using speakeasy speed test and a Washington DC server.

I switched to U-verse two weeks ago, and I'm very happy. The picture is fine, and the dvr box is much smaller than the TWC box. I don't think I got a new box though, I think it is the one they have been using for a while. There are around 90 channels of Hi-def, if you include the east and west feeds of the premium channels. I have the internet service as well. It is a bit faster than road runner. I saved about 60 dollars a month.
My question about the box is not the DVR or receiver. It was mostly about if they need to change the box outside the house in the lawn or nearby. I heard those boxes are much bigger than they used to be when U-Verse comes. Any such experience?

Also, when I was playing with the sign up page, it seemed to indicate that I need to pay extra to get HD channels. Is that what you did as well?

One last question, if I have multiple televisions, do I need a receiver for each? (I know the answer is yes, but I have to ask). My second TV is just a pure analog TV, so I don't pay extra for that.

My question about the box is not the DVR or receiver. It was mostly about if they need to change the box outside the house in the lawn or nearby. I heard those boxes are much bigger than they used to be when U-Verse comes. Any such experience?

Also, when I was playing with the sign up page, it seemed to indicate that I need to pay extra to get HD channels. Is that what you did as well?

One last question, if I have multiple televisions, do I need a receiver for each? (I know the answer is yes, but I have to ask). My second TV is just a pure analog TV, so I don't pay extra for that.

If you are talking about the plastic box on the wall where the cable comes out of the ground, they used the one that was already there. That is the only box I can think of you might be talking about.

The HD channels are a little extra, 10 or 15 dollars a month.

There is a receiver for each tv. I think each additional box is 7 dollars a month.

If you are talking about the plastic box on the wall where the cable comes out of the ground, they used the one that was already there. That is the only box I can think of you might be talking about.

The HD channels are a little extra, 10 or 15 dollars a month.

There is a receiver for each tv. I think each additional box is 7 dollars a month.

Will the DVR box drive multiple outputs at the same time? I use that, my existing installed cable, and an remote IR extender to use a single box for 2 TV's (1 HD, 1SD) in the same single-viewer house. (ie. ran components to my HDTV and coax to the upstairs set). One box, no hassle, no extra fees. Did this both with TWC 8300 (not specifically designed for such use) and with my Dish 622, which is designed for this usage)

So, NBC17ENG, it is past late Fri, what was the decision?

I was thinking the broadcasters could solve the problem yourselves, get some great PR, and maybe even save money. Here is my crackpot idea..

Some "back of the envelope" calculations indicate it is costing somewhere in the neighborhood of $300/day to maintain your analog transmitters (assume $.05 Kw/hr, and a 500Kw signal). After three months, that is roughly $27K per station. Assuming 5 stations which both need to move and *can* move (4, 11, 17, 28, 22) that's roughly $136K going to pay for extra electricity because of the delay.

What if you, and all the other stations except WRAL (because they have no place to go) shut off your analog transmitters and use that cash to buy converter boxes for the needy instead? Even assuming $50 retail prices, the money that would have gone for electricity could buy 2,730 DTV boxes. Let a tax deductible organization (WUNC-TV?) run the program, and donate the money to them to do so, so it is tax deductible and you could make the money stretch further. WRAL could get into the act and run a 24/7 crawl on analog 5 advertising the program. This would save money, save power, and get you a HUGE amount of good PR. Probably even national headlines.

Yeah, there would be no way to means-test the recipients, and its probably unrealistic, but I can dream :)

Drew

Will the DVR box drive multiple outputs at the same time? I use that, my existing installed cable, and an remote IR extender to use a single box for 2 TV's (1 HD, 1SD) in the same single-viewer house. (ie. ran components to my HDTV and coax to the upstairs set). One box, no hassle, no extra fees. Did this both with TWC 8300 (not specifically designed for such use) and with my Dish 622, which is designed for this usage)

Actually, the 8300(HD)(C) and the 8240HDC can output two independant channels out of its outputs, OUT 1 and OUT 2, but the only software that I am aware of that can do this is SARA. This feature was meant to allow people to free up room off the hard drive by feeding a VCR the video to be deleted later through OUT 2. However, the software would also have to be able to switch OUT 1 between HD mode and SD mode in order to make this work in case a customer has an SD-only TV and needs to switch the Y/Composite video port to composite mode instead of component mode. I think SARA does this as well. Most other software cannot do this, so this independent output feature necessarily gets wasted because someone with an SDTV with no component inputs would find OUT 1 useless and need to use OUT 2 for their SDTV.

I am not trying to praise SARA because it lacks many features that should be much higher in priority. Other software packages fail to utilize some of these exotic features that benefit few users because their programmers' priorities were much straighter and considered features that benefited more users.

Will the DVR box drive multiple outputs at the same time? I use that, my existing installed cable, and an remote IR extender to use a single box for 2 TV's (1 HD, 1SD) in the same single-viewer house. (ie. ran components to my HDTV and coax to the upstairs set). One box, no hassle, no extra fees. Did this both with TWC 8300 (not specifically designed for such use) and with my Dish 622, which is designed for this usage)

I don't believe this would work, but I haven't tried it.

So, NBC17ENG, it is past late Fri, what was the decision?

I was thinking the broadcasters could solve the problem yourselves, get some great PR, and maybe even save money. Here is my crackpot idea..

Some "back of the envelope" calculations indicate it is costing somewhere in the neighborhood of $300/day to maintain your analog transmitters (assume $.05 Kw/hr, and a 500Kw signal). After three months, that is roughly $27K per station. Assuming 5 stations which both need to move and *can* move (4, 11, 17, 28, 22) that's roughly $136K going to pay for extra electricity because of the delay.

What if you, and all the other stations except WRAL (because they have no place to go) shut off your analog transmitters and use that cash to buy converter boxes for the needy instead? Even assuming $50 retail prices, the money that would have gone for electricity could buy 2,730 DTV boxes. Let a tax deductible organization (WUNC-TV?) run the program, and donate the money to them to do so, so it is tax deductible and you could make the money stretch further. WRAL could get into the act and run a 24/7 crawl on analog 5 advertising the program. This would save money, save power, and get you a HUGE amount of good PR. Probably even national headlines.

Yeah, there would be no way to means-test the recipients, and its probably unrealistic, but I can dream :)

Drew

To begin with, you don't have a 500KW transmitter to output a 500KW signal. Odds are they also have 480 3 phase service, which is commercial and not priced as low as residential per KWH.

Second, you have additional costs with the analog chain - the biggest is for additional cooling in the building. If you get an ice storm that takes out power (or a tornado), then you will have diesel costs that are much higher than the going rate per KWH.

Third, depending, depending on the location, they might have tower leasing issues

Fourth, it can be very likely that they have a fiber feed for analog to the transmitter (and possibly the cable companies).

So, in a nutshell, your figures are off.

To begin with, you don't have a 500KW transmitter to output a 500KW signal. Odds are they also have 480 3 phase service, which is commercial and not priced as low as residential per KWH.

So, in a nutshell, your figures are off.

Correct... Currently WRAL is at an ERP (effective radiated power) of 1000KW on 53 into the Aux antenna with a TPO (transmitter power output) of 30KW.

So, in a nutshell, your figures are off.

Those were, admittedly, pulled out of thin air. However, I keep seeing a figure of roughly $10K per month quoted as the cost to maintain analog transmissions (http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/73894), which is remarkably close to what I arrived at with my guesstimates. So maybe I shouldn't have bothered to "show my work" and just used the widely quoted $10K/mo figure.

Drew

Anybody hear or know why the Wake Forest/Boston College game hasn't been in HD on WRAL?

Both were advertised yesterday as being in HD today on WRAL (by WRAL in a commercial). and the guide says HD... but the game has not been in HD.

The NC State vs Virginia Tech game was HD, by the way.

WCTI in New Bern isn't broadcasting the game in HD either.

WLOS in Asheville isn't broadcasting it in HD, as well. I bet it was a Raycom decision.

Could be.. I wonder what changed their mind.

All things considered, the first game (NC State vs Virginia Tech) was a good game... the 2nd game was not as entertaining once Wake Forest broke it open in the second half.

Anybody hear or know why the Wake Forest/Boston College game hasn't been in HD on WRAL?

Both were advertised yesterday as being in HD today on WRAL (by WRAL in a commercial). and the guide says HD... but the game has not been in HD.

The NC State vs Virginia Tech game was HD, by the way.

2.5 hrs of misery in HD.. 2.5 hrs of my life I'd like a refund on :)

My question about the box is not the DVR or receiver. It was mostly about if they need to change the box outside the house in the lawn or nearby. I heard those boxes are much bigger than they used to be when U-Verse comes. Any such experience?

If you're talking about the V-rad, the large metal box, it doesn't go in your yard, they are spread throughout the neighborhood. Mine is a few blocks away in front of a park.

NBC17ENG, that sucks about your heart attack. Wishes for a full recovery to you.

Your post made me think of something. We keep hearing all these Neilsen reports saying as much as 6 or 7 percetn of people are not ready. Well, for years, Nielsen would not hook anyone up with the full setup if they had anything other than OTA or basic cable. If you had a DVR, too bad you can't be a Neilsen family. If you had HD, too bad you can't be a Neilsen family.

In the last couple or three years, they have gradually been integrating people with advanced stuff into their program, but I have to wonder if their early refusal to put their metering devices on anything but the most basic setup has caused their sample to become skewed to those with OTA only moreso than the general poulation. Of course, this also calls into question their sample of show veiwership ratings too, but that is another story.

If you're talking about the V-rad, the large metal box, it doesn't go in your yard, they are spread throughout the neighborhood. Mine is a few blocks away in front of a park.

Yes, that's what I was talking about. I have a small AT&T tower on my front yard and I am worried that moving to U-Verse would mean that would have to be replaced with a much bigger one (and noisy from what I heard).

Get well soon, NBC17ENG!

- Trip

Yes, that's what I was talking about. I have a small AT&T tower on my front yard and I am worried that moving to U-Verse would mean that would have to be replaced with a much bigger one (and noisy from what I heard).

They didn't change the yard box at all. The Vrad is quite a ways away.

I switched to U-verse two weeks ago, and I'm very happy. The picture is fine, and the dvr box is much smaller than the TWC box. I don't think I got a new box though, I think it is the one they have been using for a while. There are around 90 channels of Hi-def, if you include the east and west feeds of the premium channels. I have the internet service as well. It is a bit faster than road runner. I saved about 60 dollars a month.

Can you comment on how the cost compares for the TV portion to comparable service from TWC or DirecTV/DISH? I am hoping that U-Verse competition will help keep prices in check.

get well soon, nbc17eng!

- trip

+1 !!!!

Can you comment on how the cost compares for the TV portion to comparable service from TWC or DirecTV/DISH? I am hoping that U-Verse competition will help keep prices in check.

If you are going to compare against Dish you have to know whether you want what I call the "flyover" channels(ie. all the SD channels on TWC 100-200 with no HD equivalent, and for me, no compelling content anyway), if not, you can simply get the TurboHD pkgs and save $40+/month with Dish vs. what it takes to get comparable quantity HD from TWC (minimum of ~$90 with HD DVR and HD suite). Dish just changed their pkgs recently, and I would wait 2-3 weeks as new HD is expected, but no idea how the channels will be distributed amongst the various Bronze/Silver/Gold levels.

since you are posting in Raleigh HDTV, I am presuming you do want HD channels, so ignored the non HD case.

NBC17ENG, that sucks about your heat attack. Wishes for a full recovery to you.

Your post made me think of something. We keep hearing all these Neilsen reports saying as much as 6 or 7 percetn of people are not ready. Well, for years, Nielsen would not hook anyone up with the full setup if they had anything other than OTA or basic cable. If you had a DVR, too bad you can't be a Neilsen family. If you had HD, too bad you can't be a Neilsen family.

In the last couple or three years, they have gradually been integrating people with advanced stuff into their program, but I have to wonder if their early refusal to put their metering devices on anything but the most basic setup has caused their sample to become skewed to those with OTA only moreso than the general poulation. Of course, this also calls into question their sample of show veiwership ratings too, but that is another story.
Great question!!!

Can you comment on how the cost compares for the TV portion to comparable service from TWC or DirecTV/DISH? I am hoping that U-Verse competition will help keep prices in check.

Can't say about DirecTV or Dish, but I saved 60 dollars a month just on the video portion, not including the internet portion which is a little higher than TWC. I get a little over 400 total channels and 90 Hi-def for $134 a month.

NBC17ENG, that sucks about your heat attack. Wishes for a full recovery to you.

Your post made me think of something. We keep hearing all these Neilsen reports saying as much as 6 or 7 percetn of people are not ready. Well, for years, Nielsen would not hook anyone up with the full setup if they had anything other than OTA or basic cable. If you had a DVR, too bad you can't be a Neilsen family. If you had HD, too bad you can't be a Neilsen family.

In the last couple or three years, they have gradually been integrating people with advanced stuff into their program, but I have to wonder if their early refusal to put their metering devices on anything but the most basic setup has caused their sample to become skewed to those with OTA only moreso than the general poulation. Of course, this also calls into question their sample of show veiwership ratings too, but that is another story.

i am sure their overnights are affected by them not installing boxes for anyone that does timeshifting (see my earlier post). but their final numbers that are released a week later include input from the diaries that do capture the viewing of DVR users.

their overnights are rough. the overnights probably include a correction factor for the DVR users that aren't captured by the boxes (and a bunch of other hand-waving magic).

they still uses diaries (as i stated previously). the diaries are used to finalize their numbers. the diaries could also be used to generate the statistical correction factors for their overnights.

even though neilson doesn't include DVR users in overnights, they do include them in their diaries. i am sure the diaries were used to generate their "percentage of households not ready" numbers. so i would say they probably aren't exclusionary with regards to their sample.

Looks like we have to wait a little bit longer for the NBC Universal channels:

Feb. 15, 2009: The following channels will be added:

USA HD - Channel 258
Bravo HD - Channel 259
CNBC HD - Channel 266
Sci-Fi HD - Channel 267
Telemundo - Channel 379 (Digital extension of Basic Cable)

Looks like we have to wait a little bit longer for the NBC Universal channels:

Feb. 15, 2009: The following channels will be added:

USA HD - Channel 258
Bravo HD - Channel 259
CNBC HD - Channel 266
Sci-Fi HD - Channel 267
Telemundo - Channel 379 (Digital extension of Basic Cable)

Yup... I saw that today too.... Wonder when they are going to announce adds for March? Im hoping for Spike HD... Science HD would be nice too.

OK, using dr1394's tools (flags.zip and eovb_demux.zip from w6rz.net) it seems like Fox50 is using "fancy" encoding, and putting repeat flags in their stream for their syndicated reruns (at least of 2 1/2 Men recorded tonight at 7pm, which I was pleasantly surprised to find in HD). FWIW, flags on the demuxed video from 2 1/2 Men show numerous frames like this:

GOP size = 15, byte index = 185004796
Tref = 0, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 133200
Tref = 1, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 117104
Tref = 2, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, I frame bits = 242832
Tref = 3, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 148880
Tref = 4, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 149664
Tref = 5, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, P frame bits = 320768
Tref = 6, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 177296
Tref = 7, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 229408
Tref = 8, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, P frame bits = 325120
Tref = 9, TFF = 0, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 225984
Tref = 10, TFF = 1, RFF = 1, PF = 1, B frame bits = 235520
Tref = 11, TFF = 0, RFF = 0, PF = 1, P frame bits = 318304
Tref = 12, TFF = 0, RFF = 0, PF = 1, B frame bits = 149312
Tref = 13, TFF = 0, RFF = 0, PF = 1, B frame bits = 161072
Tref = 14, TFF = 0, RFF = 0, PF = 1, P frame bits = 496192

If I understand things correct, the RFF is the repeat first field flag. It is (nearly) always zero in many other recordings from "simple" channels, like PBS, 22.1 and 28.1, and Fox network primetime.

Drew

Just a note on MPEG-2 encoding for 720p. When the stream is signaled progressive (progressive_sequence = 1), then the TFF and RFF fields take on different meanings.

TFF = 0, RFF = 0, display frame 1 time
TFF = 0, RFF = 1, display frame 2 times
TFF = 1, RFF = 1, display frame 3 times

Ron

i am sure their overnights are affected by them not installing boxes for anyone that does timeshifting (see my earlier post). but their final numbers that are released a week later include input from the diaries that do capture the viewing of DVR users.

their overnights are rough. the overnights probably include a correction factor for the DVR users that aren't captured by the boxes (and a bunch of other hand-waving magic).

they still uses diaries (as i stated previously). the diaries are used to finalize their numbers. the diaries could also be used to generate the statistical correction factors for their overnights.

even though neilson doesn't include DVR users in overnights, they do include them in their diaries. i am sure the diaries were used to generate their "percentage of households not ready" numbers. so i would say they probably aren't exclusionary with regards to their sample.


I've done Neisen Diaries a couple of times, so I am well aware of that. You are probably right, that they do account for DVR use somewhere in the ratings, but I wonder what they are doing when they report that X percentage of people in the US are "not ready". I would hope that it is a true number, not affected by the shortcomings of Neilsen equipment and that the whole delay is not a knee-jerk reaction to erroneous data, but who knows.

We should have some answers late tomorrow how this market will go. The station managers are meeting this afternoon.

Hey Russ .. any update from the meeting last Friday? Inquiring minds want to know.

Edit: well, looks like I found my answer. According to the FCC (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf) website, only WRDC, WLFL, and WRAY are planning to switch early. I really would have thought that WRAL would have jumped at the same time.

Hey Russ .. any update from the meeting last Friday? Inquiring minds want to know.

Edit: well, looks like I found my answer. According to the FCC (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf) website, only WRDC, WLFL, and WRAY are planning to switch early. I really would have thought that WRAL would have jumped at the same time.

As was mentioned several pages back, WRAL can't move until other stations on 48 shut down so they can move to 48 from 53.

As was mentioned several pages back, WRAL can't move until other stations on 48 shut down so they can move to 48 from 53.

Well, I remember that now that you remind me.. :) What I didn't know was how many stations were holding back from the Feb 17th deadline. Makes sense to have all the major players switch at the same time, which is what I assume the meeting was last Friday.

As was mentioned several pages back, WRAL can't move until other stations on 48 shut down so they can move to 48 from 53.

So -
Since WRDC, WRAY, and WLFL ARE going on Feb 17 -

WRAZ is already on their final assignment (49) - it really doesn't matter to them whether they power off analog or not (except for power bill / ratings).

As mentioned above - WRAL can't move to it's final until a station in Greensboro (shutting down on Feb17) and WCTI (currently June 12) in New Bern move off of 48. For now - they are stuck on their temporary sidemounted antenna on channel 53. Channel 5 for their analog is pretty decent.

WTVD and WNCN - these are both going back to their old analog assignments. Due to competitive pressures, they figure its better to change when analog is shutoff and they can just stay on their current digital assignments (52 and 55, respectively) as well.

UNC stations will be staying until June 12.

Net effect to us, the viewers - do a digital channel scan on Feb 17/18, and again on June 13.

I need stronger happy pills!

The list of "reasons to delay" was too long to ignore and Scooper is right on with the major issues in his post. However, the cost to keep a UHF transmitter going is nearly equal to buying a new car- every month. If you read the myriad of crawls we've been running on analog, you may know I shut off half my analog transmitter Monday afternoon on 2/2 to prepare those two cabinets to become digital. That is actually saving me a few bucks right now and as expected, not a single call or email of anyone having trouble picking up analog. Once again proves line-of-sight beats power output any day.

Speaking of power, backing up a few posts our good friends at Nielson are infallible and I can't say anything bad about them. (insert subliminal sarcastic Engineer comment here)

They use a few different methods to gage viewer's habits including their boxes, diaries, and direct phone calls. They just changed from dialing random numbers, to picking specific addresses and calling, which naturally knocks out the growing number of non-land line homes using cellular and possibly Vonage and TWC phone service.

Each station has an encoder that puts an identifying watermark in the video and audio of the analog and digital outputs. We have a different number encoded for each. While the video code sometimes gets squashed in the MPEG-2 encoding, the audio codes survive just fine. I have a software program on my PC I can plug the audio from mt DVR into my sound card and read the codes. As one of my fellow Chief's noticed, if you drive the audio too high or low it does not pass the codes. And yes, it is actually on the analog audio masked by the regular sound. They drop it out during silence and low volume dialog so you can't hear it.

Here is the list I just received of February 17 changeovers.
From: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf


WUNC-TV UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA
MYTV WRDC Y X RALEIGH (WRDC-TV) LICENSEE, INC.
ABC WTVD WTVD TELEVISION, LLC
WFPX PAXSON COMMUNICATIONS LICENSE COMPANY, LLC
UNIVISION WUVC-TV WUVC LICENSE PARTNERSHIP, G.P.
NBC WNCN MEDIA GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS HOLDINGS, LLC
CW WLFL Y X WLFL LICENSEE, LLC
CBS WRAL-TV CAPITOL BROADCASTING COMPANY, INC.
FOX WRAZ WRAZ-TV, INC.
PBS WUNP-TV UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA
WRPX PAXSON RALEIGH LICENSE, INC.
WRAY-TV N X MTB RALEIGH LICENSEE LLC

Jim - you need to look at the list from
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf

For stations that will be shutting down analog.
On your listing, only the stations in RED are shutting down - the ones in black are merely listed.

Nothing is yet "official" until Obama signs the bill. Even the NTIA website is still counting down to Feb 17 at www.dtv2009.gov

Ah! I see they have removed the countdown clock today.

Looks like we have to wait a little bit longer for the NBC Universal channels:

Feb. 15, 2009: The following channels will be added:

USA HD - Channel 258
Bravo HD - Channel 259
CNBC HD - Channel 266
Sci-Fi HD - Channel 267
Telemundo - Channel 379 (Digital extension of Basic Cable)

And now they are back to Feb 13th. Time Warner and Bravo are throwing a big party to celebrate the launch on Friday so I guess they decided they should actually launch them then. http://www.multichannel.com/article/174007-Time_Warner_Launches_Bravo_HD_In_N_C_.php

OOPS and sorry...
I deleted the original posting.

Nothing is yet "official" until Obama signs the bill. Even the NTIA website is still counting down to Feb 17 at www.dtv2009.gov

Ah! I see they have removed the countdown clock today.I wish every station in the country would stick with the original schedule. There will still be bunches of procrastinators not ready when June 12 rolls around. If delayed 10 years, it would be the same story.

Quick OT: I am still fighting with TWC about our node potentially being oversold (internet speeds/latency in the toilet during primetime, southpoint area), but we're still blowing a lot of time fighting with tier 1. If anyone feels like PMing me a direct phone number to a higher tier, I promise it won't be abused. Used to have a tier 3 number but lost it. Basically at this point we're just trying to get them to admit they won't do anything about it so we can decide what to do next (DSL, sigh).

EDIT: Nevermind, we actually did have a local coordinator call us back, and he did actually admit there is a node utilization problem, and that they're working on it. Craziness!

So, next question instead: has there been any news on the tuning adapters? My friend with a cablecard is about to have an aneurysm. And are all these new HD channels SDV?

So, next question instead: has there been any news on the tuning adapters? My friend with a cablecard is about to have an aneurysm. And are all these new HD channels SDV?

All new channels should be assumed to be SDV. As for the tuning adapters, there were rumblings on another forum that they were supposed to start shipping this past Monday. The CSR I talked to today hadn't heard anything about that. (Although they did know what a tuning adapter was, so that's a step in the right direction.)

All new channels should be assumed to be SDV. As for the tuning adapters, there were rumblings on another forum that they were supposed to start shipping this past Monday. The CSR I talked to today hadn't heard anything about that. (Although they did know what a tuning adapter was, so that's a step in the right direction.)

They arent shipping them yet. Cablecard customers will get a letter with a website where they can go order one. This is a site specific for TWC Carolinas and not the TWC general one that has been around a while. Supposedly the rollout will be in three phases with the first letters being mailed yesterday. The first group is said to be small to test out the process with the floodgates opened about a week later.

EDIT: TiVo Forum now has a statement from the insider indicating that the TA deployment has been put on hold for a couple weeks while they sort out the ordering system..... We were sooooo close.

So, next question instead: has there been any news on the tuning adapters? My friend with a cablecard is about to have an aneurysm. And are all these new HD channels SDV?


Yes they will be SDV. From http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

The new services listed below cannot be accessed on CableCARD-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Products purchased at retail without additional, two-way capable equipment:


USA HD Channel 258; Bravo HD Channel 259; CNBC HD Channel 266; SciFi HD Channel 267; Primetime On Demand Channel 539; Classic On Demand Channel 512; Thriller On Demand Channel 513; Kids/Teens On Demand Channel 514; Action On Demand Channel 515.

Just reset my box and I still don't have the new channels.

I checked and have mine.

I have mine. One disappointment for me is the SiFi HD channel. Except for Battlestar Galactia last night, none of the shows/movies that I have looked at so far are 16:9. I guess that they are another channel that calls themselves HD but have very little 16:9 HD content.

I have mine. One disappointment for me is the SiFi HD channel. Except for Battlestar Galactia last night, none of the shows/movies that I have looked at so far are 16:9. I guess that they are another channel that calls themselves HD but have very little 16:9 HD content.

I noticed that as well. At first I thought TWC were just simulcasting the SD feed on the HD channel. SG-1 in 4:3 widescreen letterbox on a 16:9 channel? Really?

I've had SciFiHD on Dish for a while. New Galactica episodes are HD, but sometimes repeats of previous season episodes are not.

The new Stargate shows (is Atlantis still running?) were HD, but repeats often were not.

Eureka was HD last season, so should be again when it comes back.

Every once in a while there are movies on there in HD, though I usually don't watch unless it is a made-for-SciFi deal. They re-ran the Tin Man mini-series in HD not too long ago, for example.

I've had SciFiHD on Dish for a while. New Galactica episodes are HD, but sometimes repeats of previous season episodes are not.

The new Stargate shows (is Atlantis still running?) were HD, but repeats often were not.

Eureka was HD last season, so should be again when it comes back.

Every once in a while there are movies on there in HD, though I usually don't watch unless it is a made-for-SciFi deal. They re-ran the Tin Man mini-series in HD not too long ago, for example.

Same thing here.. had it for 8? months with Dish.. most of the new stuff I watch is all in HD.. been very happy with it. Alas Atlantis has ended. BSG is in HD, as is the new show Sanctuary. Didn't realize Eureka was coming back.. glad to hear it! :) Might just be coincidence, but 95% of anything I wanted to watch on SciFi happens to be in HD.. shrug.

In general, the more HD channels you get, the lower the overall percentage of HD :( The worst IMO is the stretch-o-vision on some of the channels.. totally repugnant.

......In general, the more HD channels you get, the lower the overall percentage of HD :( The worst IMO is the stretch-o-vision on some of the channels.. totally repugnant.

I see some very good HD and some that is not so good. Don't know if "the not so good" ones are just a crappy filming job or "simulated HD". Is there a way of identifying the "fake" HD on the receiving end?

Just a followup to a previous post. There is a movie on SciFi right now (Manticore) that is in HD and DD. It's not going to win any Academy Awards:), but the PQ is pretty good.

Except for Battlestar Galactia last night, none of the shows/movies that I have looked at so far are 16:9.

I think the issue was that SciFi didn't purchase HD rights to many of the shows when they signed up for syndication rights. At the time they made the agreements, they didn't have a HD channel and probably found it expensive. For example: ST-Enterprise is in SD letterbox, but it IS in HD on HD-Net. So, HD-Net paid for exclusive HD rights and SciFi paid for SD rights. That's why a lot of first run SciFi stuff is in HD, while older series that were shot in HD aren't.

Why can't my TV pick up the vast majority of the clear QAM channels? All I'm getting is WRAL. This is with basic cable. I used to be able to get WNCN, Fox and ABC in HD directly over my coax but after rescanning, I get nearly nothing. Any ideas?

Why can't my TV pick up the vast majority of the clear QAM channels? All I'm getting is WRAL. This is with basic cable. I used to be able to get WNCN, Fox and ABC in HD directly over my coax but after rescanning, I get nearly nothing. Any ideas?

I don't think they're being mapped to the recognizable channel numbers. Look up in the 112.x and 119.x range (and everything in between)

Just a note on MPEG-2 encoding for 720p. When the stream is signaled progressive (progressive_sequence = 1), then the TFF and RFF fields take on different meanings.

TFF = 0, RFF = 0, display frame 1 time
TFF = 0, RFF = 1, display frame 2 times
TFF = 1, RFF = 1, display frame 3 times

Ron

So does this mean these guys' aren't tagging their transmission properly? Or is it those of us with this 720P problem just have borked tuners? I e-mailed WRAZ about this problem two weeks ago. Got a message it was being forwarded to the chief engineer but haven't heard anything since and the problem is still there. Maybe if some others get on board this will get resolved?

So does this mean these guys' aren't tagging their transmission properly? Or is it those of us with this 720P problem just have borked tuners? I e-mailed WRAZ about this problem two weeks ago. Got a message it was being forwarded to the chief engineer but haven't heard anything since and the problem is still there. Maybe if some others get on board this will get resolved?

It just means that your MPEG-2 decoders, not your tuners, are not doing their jobs. The Scientific-Atlanta 8300HDC, with all its faults, is able to decode this. Try getting a firmware update.

I'd love to but there aren't any for this TV (Vizio VX37L).

Its been a while since I have seen anything on this topic.

I have an old Pace HD box that I have on our the least used HD TV (we have the DVR on the main HD TV). I am going to want to trade the Pace in for a new box soon (it has some non-functioning portions on the front time display).

What is the "favorite" or recommended non-DVR HD box that is available at TWC, assuming there is more than one model available?

Thanks,
Bob

Its been a while since I have seen anything on this topic.

I have an old Pace HD box that I have on our the least used HD TV (we have the DVR on the main HD TV). I am going to want to trade the Pace in for a new box soon (it has some non-functioning portions on the front time display).

What is the "favorite" or recommended non-DVR HD box that is available at TWC, assuming there is more than one model available?

Thanks,
Bob

I think mine is a scientific atlanta 3250. It is very slow at responding to remote or front panel key presses.

Bringing up the guide usually causes a 2-3 sec freeze of the audio and video.

I'd love to but there aren't any for this TV (Vizio VX37L).

Use your warranty if you can. Other people found out that Vizio's MPEG-2 decoders are trash that fails to decode repeat frames properly.

If your warranty is expired, get some sort of set-top box.

Has anyone heard if TWC Raleigh will provide MLB Extra Innings in HD this upcoming season? If this has been covered already, apologies.
Thanks

Will any of the OTA broadcasters increase digital signal strength after turning off their analog transmitters? Just as an example, WRPX transmits its analog signal at 5000kW but its digital signal only at 180kW (according to tvfool.com). It seems like they could broadcast a stronger digital signal. I assume the low power signal has something to do with continuing to broadcast the analog signal. WLFL, WRAZ and WRDC are similar. So I was wondering about the possibility of stations increasing digital signal strength after the transition.

Will any of the OTA broadcasters increase digital signal strength after turning off their analog transmitters? Just as an example, WRPX transmits its analog signal at 5000kW but its digital signal only at 180kW (according to tvfool.com). It seems like they could broadcast a stronger digital signal. I assume the low power signal has something to do with continuing to broadcast the analog signal. WLFL, WRAZ and WRDC are similar. So I was wondering about the possibility of stations increasing digital signal strength after the transition.

Numbers are misleading.

The FCC power limit for UHF digital is 1000 kW, so WRAZ can't increase power, for example. Analog and digital powers are measured separately. Because analog power varies with the picture being broadcast, analog's 5000 kW is the "peak" power, whereas digital's 1000 kW is the "average" power. While not exact, the numbers are not as far off as they appear.

That said, power levels also follow a logarithmic scale. Going from 1 kW to 2 kW boosts signal by 3 dB. Similarly, going from 500 kW to 1000 kW boosts signal by 3 dB. 3 dB isn't a lot of power in the grand scheme of things, especially on the digital side where it's unlikely to be observed in most cases.

I wouldn't be surprised to see WRPX try to move to Garner at some point with the rest of the Raleigh stations.

- Trip

I'm 10 miles away from WRPX - I have NO trouble receiving them, even though I have no antenna pointing at them directly.

FCC service area maps for WRPX broadcasting digital signals at 180kW on channel 15 and analog at 5000kW on channel 47 aren't really significantly different. Analog coverage is greater, of course, but not as much as the power numbers might suggest.

WRPX digital:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT602519.html

WRPX analog:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TV228838.html

Does anybody know how long WLFL and WRDC will run their analog night light and continue broadcasting digital on their pre-transition temporary frequencies? Until June?

Eg, "when do I need to rescan".


Drew

Does anybody know how long WLFL and WRDC will run their analog night light and continue broadcasting digital on their pre-transition temporary frequencies? Until June?

Eg, "when do I need to rescan".


Drew

WRDC 28 is going digital on 28... so they cant do a nite lite....

WRDC 28 is going digital on 28... so they cant do a nite lite....

They're both listed as "Night Lite Y" in the FCC doc that was posted earlier, and WRDC is indeed currently broadcasting a night light on 28 right now. See the attached screenshot I took around 9:45am.

Anyway, this analog nite light confused me too, that's why I asked. I'd assumed I would need to do a rescan because their digital broadcast would be moving. But so far, this is not the case.

Drew

Does anybody know how long WLFL and WRDC will run their analog night light and continue broadcasting digital on their pre-transition temporary frequencies? Until June?

Eg, "when do I need to rescan".


Drew

My guess will be June 13, after all stations can finalize. Part of the issue is that they aren't allowed to use Posttransition facilities unless they were the same as their pretransition facilities. Since WRDC is going back to 28 (currently 27) and WLFL is go to 27 (currently 57) - without an STA they can't move yet.

What is the most up to date HD dvr Time Warner is using? We have a 8000HD, 8240HDC, and I know there is a 8300HD out there as well. The 8240HDC is giving me problems with the recordings freezing and not fast forwarding correctly, and the menu system is slow as hell. Would a new box fix my problems or is it the software that is lousy? The 8000HD has the new Navigator software update which works great and I think the 8240HDC has the Mystro software which is slow and buggy.

What is the most up to date HD dvr Time Warner is using? We have a 8000HD, 8240HDC, and I know there is a 8300HD out there as well. The 8240HDC is giving me problems with the recordings freezing and not fast forwarding correctly, and the menu system is slow as hell. Would a new box fix my problems or is it the software that is lousy? The 8000HD has the new Navigator software update which works great and I think the 8240HDC has the Mystro software which is slow and buggy.

The latest that I am aware of is the 8300HDC, which runs the same software as the 8240HDC, which itself is basically the 8300HDC minus some hardware that is needed to decode analog cable, so the 8300HDC can take analog or digital cable while the 8240HDC can only handle digital cable. The 8300HD, 8000HD, and other boxes that do not use CableCARDs for decryption have been outlawed by the FCC except those that already have been manufactured. These have been granfathered in.

The 8300HDC and 8240HDC are engineering rush jobs in which Scientific Atlanta basically rushed to get the great 8300HD converted to use a CableCARD and to support the then-current version of OCAP. Scientific Atlanta basically wanted to change as little as possible, and changed too little. For example, its CPU is very good at running DVR code that is written specifically for it because such code does not force it to make many decisions, but is slow at code that requires lots of decision making like translating Java bytecode to native machine code. (The code that runs on ODN boxes is in Java to allow ODN to run on anything, anywhere; as long as there is a CableCARD, there are analog and digital tuners, and there is a DOCSIS cable modem in the device that needs to run ODN.) This is probably because the hardware to make decisions is very minimal which reflects the lack of need of the CPU's original target to make lots of decisions, saving lots of money on high-performance circuits that were anticipated to be wasted. Newer CPUs for cable boxes now probably have lots of logic to minimize the downside of decision making because Java demands it. Also, many of these rush jobs either have inadequate cooling or inadequate power supplies that are heat sensitive. These boxes were rush jobs because the FCC refused to budge on a deadline which many not-so-forward-thinking cable companies like Comcast wanted to effectively cancel by delaying it indefinitely, forcing Scientific Atlanta and Motorola to hurriedly create these rush jobs. Be glad that both of us (StinDaWg and jnv11) live in TWC-controlled areas of North Carolina instead of Comcast territory, because I have heard that as mediocre TWC is here, it is much better than Comcast-hell. Now, if we were in the West Coast, TWC is hell and Comcast looks mediocre in the JD Power Ratings.

If you swap your box, you will probably get either an 8300HDC or an 8240HDC. Here are my tips for surviving an 8300HDC or an 8240HDC:

Be grateful that the 8300HDC and 8240HDC have the memory to hold the whole program guide in memory without having to fetch it off the network any time you go to any day beyond tomorrow. MDN-running boxes take forever to load this data because they do not store the whole weeklong program guide.
Be grateful that closed captioning is rock solid. I have someone in the house that needs it. Some versions of MDN crash when closed captioning is on.
Go all out on cooling your 8300HDC or 8240HDC. This has eliminated almost all of the crashing I had on the 8240HDC and 8300HDC units I have worked with. For example, put your box on 2x4s to allow them to scoop up more air to cool the box down via convection. Do not enclose this box with anything but a room. Do not put this box on a carpet.
If a show consistently crashes the DVR on playback, delete it, and try to delete as many shows as possible. This probably will cure some file table corruption. This should be a rare problem unless someone has unreliable power or reboots often during recording.
There is nothing that can be done with the slow running of the guide until Time Warner Cable finally gets boxes that were designed from the ground up to run OCAP, which runs on top of Java. Java is running on a CPU that does not have the required hardware to handle Java quickly. Once the Cisco 8550HDC, 8552HDC, 8650HDC, or 8652HDC; or the upcoming Samsung DVRs come out, a box swap should give you CPUs that can handle Java well.

Once the Cisco 8550HDC, 8552HDC, 8650HDC, or 8652HDC; or the upcoming Samsung DVRs come out, a box swap should give you CPUs that can handle Java well.
[/LIST]

Any time frame on those releases for Time Warner? Are they even confirmed or just speculation at this point?

The FCC has released a web page that does a pretty good job of showing the RF levels you can expect in your neighborhood after the transition. They are pretty close to what you are getting now, but like the www.tvfool.com interactive with Google maps, it does not take buildings, etc into account. It still has a very graphic demonstration of why Apex and some of Durham County are having issues with all DTV stations. You gotta get your antenna high!

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

You gotta get your antenna high!

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

Can you make your coverage tool available to us? you sent out a coverage map of my area which does take terrain into account. If the tool is proprietary or complex, perhaps host a PDF for the area?

BTW: NBC17 OTA digital is coming in great (68-85 on this windy day)! Did notice the analog broadcast was shut-down a couple days ago, thought you had made the move, but it quickly returned.