Raleigh, NC - HDTV [Text View] - Page 45

tarheelone

02-24-09, 10:39 AM

For those of you who have complained about UNC TVs HD offerings on Time Warner, I got this email today.

On March 1, UNC digital programming on Time Warner Cable will undergo some changes. The UNC HD channel will transition to exactly the same HD programming as is carried over the air. Some popular programming that had been carried on the UNC HD channel will be moving to UNC Educational channel. The primary SD feed of UNC and other UNC channels will not be affected by this change.
200 UNC SD (unchanged)
201 UNC HD (becomes the same as the off air signal)
202 UNC KIDS (unchanged)
203 UNC ED (receives some programming previously on UNC HD)
204 UNC NC (unchanged)

A few other channel changes of note:

February 25, 2009: News 14 Carolina (Digital) is added to Channel 214.

March 1, 2009: Game Show Network (Channel 329) will be available on Digital Variety.

March 20, 2009: Starz On Demand launches on Channels 476 and 534 (subscription to Starz required).

March 25, 2009: Jewelry TV launches on Channel 80.

tamarawadams

02-24-09, 11:23 AM

I have no cable or direct tv - just ota - with converter boxes. The PBS signal (4) and ION (47) are both very unreliable - almost always cutting in and out. Will this reception improve once everything is digital or will I need a different antenna. The rabbit ears were horrible so I got an indoor unidirectional Phillips. It works great with my cheap (Insignia) converter box - i think it allows analog to flow through with digital signals. But we have the DTVPal DVR on our main TV and the reception on 4 & 47 is horrible ( i don't think it allows for the analog signal to show up if you are using digital - you have to switch back and forth). We live in Garner and I know that the PBS signal is in a different direction than the other channels, but even when I line our antenna up with the PBS signal, it does not improve. Roof mount omnidirectional antenna was suggested as an option. I would appreciate your feedback. As you can tell, I am not very technical, so keep it simple :) Thanks!

jrelmore

02-24-09, 11:42 AM

Visit http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

this will guide you to the correct antenna for your specific location and channel needs.

abward

02-24-09, 12:51 PM

tamarawadams,

Also keep in mind that most of the digital channels transmit over UHF frequencies, so make sure you are using a UHF antenna on your mast.

Scooper

02-24-09, 01:03 PM

tamarawadams,

Also keep in mind that most of the digital channels transmit over UHF frequencies, so make sure you are using a UHF antenna on your mast.

station analog current after Jun12 location
WUNC----4------59-----25-------Chapel Hill
WRAL----5-------53----48--------Auburn
WTVD----11----52------11--------Auburn
WNCN----17----55------17--------Auburn
WLFL-----22----57------27 *------Auburn
WRDC----28----27------28 *------ Auburn
WRPX----47----15------15-------- Louisburg
WRAZ----50----49------49--------Auburn

* = station has shutdown regular programming on analog, they are currently doing nightlight programming (essentially, 24/7 PSA on how to prepare for digital transition)

Note that ALL stations are currently broadcasting digital as well as analog. On June 13, you will probably need to rescan all of your digital tuners so they know where to find the stations. Notice that WTVD is currently slated to finalize on their channel 11 analog - be sure your new reception equipment can receive channel 11 (upper VHF) as well UHF channels. Most UHF antennas should do OK. I would suggest testing by trying to tune in channel 11 analog now.

scsiraid

02-24-09, 01:13 PM

station analog current after Jun12 location
WUNC----4------59-----25-------Chapel Hill
WRAL----5-------53----48--------Auburn
WTVD----11----52------11--------Auburn
WNCN----17----55------17--------Auburn
WLFL-----22----57------27 *------Auburn
WRDC----28----27------28 *------ Auburn
WRPX----47----15------15-------- Louisburg
WRAZ----50----49------49--------Auburn

* = station has shutdown regular programming on analog, they are currently doing nightlight programming (essentially, 24/7 PSA on how to prepare for digital transition)

Note that ALL stations are currently broadcasting digital as well as analog. On June 13, you will probably need to rescan all of your digital tuners so they know where to find the stations.

Anybody know when WLFL and WRDC will switch to their post transition channels? June?

Scooper

02-24-09, 01:49 PM

Anybody know when WLFL and WRDC will switch to their post transition channels? June?

That's my guess - The FCC has ruled that post transition assignments can't be occupied until then.

vidiot1985

02-24-09, 06:09 PM

... Some popular programming that had been carried on the UNC HD channel will be moving to UNC Educational channel. The primary SD feed of UNC and other UNC channels will not be affected by this change.
...
203 UNC ED (receives some programming previously on UNC HD)
...[/B]
...

Assuming that previously TWUNCHD programming will be shown in SD on UNC-ED, I think this is a net loss. I'd much rather see some of the TWUNCHD programming in HD (mainly the travelogues and some of the cooking shows) than see some of the WUNC main programming in HD.

If the stuff that goes onto UNC-ED will remain HD, then that'd be cool!

March 25, 2009: Jewelry TV launches on Channel 80.[/B]

Great, just what we need, another shopping channel. :mad:

I wonder if it'll have ads for those "Cash For Unwanted Gold Jewelry" companies.

jnv11

02-24-09, 09:39 PM

Here is a post that I wrote in the Time Warner Cable HDTV forum that I think subscribers of this forum would appreciate. It is titled "The bad picture quality is WNCN's fault, not Time Warner Cable's fault" and is posted below in its entirety:

I had TWC-HD in Raleigh NC for the last 5 years. It was quite good for Picture quality but horrible for service, customer support, and price. I switched to DirectTV recently and I have to say the DirectTV HD picture Quality is FAR superior to TWC-HD picture quality. NBC was always pixilated on TWC. It actually looks like decent HD on DirectTV.
I wouldn’t switch back to TWC for TV even if they paid me the $120 a month I used to give them!

It is a known fact that WNCN, the local NBC station in our area, has rotten picture quality on OTA and cable on its HD broadcast compared to the other stations. What is passed through to TWC is the same thing that is transmitted OTA. It is not TWC's fault that the MPEG-2 feed it is given is low quality. If WNCN on satellite HD Lite beats out WNCN's normal MPEG-2 HD feed, something definitely is wrong.

My guess as to why WNCN's picture quality is bad on cable or OTA is that WNCN probably has an obsolete MPEG-2 encoder, or an MPEG-2 encoder whose purpose favors latency over high image quality and is inappropriately used in a broadcast environment. When I was watching the Super Bowl on WNCN, I watched as the grass went from being somewhat sharply detailed to a near-constant shade of green suddenly as the camera panned. This suggests that the motion estimation engine could not look far enough pixel-wise to reuse the images found in the P-frames or the I-frames, forcing it to generate independent macroblocks which use lots of bits. This forces the quality on all the macroblocks down because they must be compressed more heavily to fit the throughput budget. Another piece of evidence for this hypothesis is that when WRAL, the local CBS station which prides itself on HD leadership due to being the first HD station in the USA, broadcasts a football game, and the camera pans quickly, the grass does not degenerate into a constant color, unlike WNCN. This suggests that WRAL's motion estimation engine is capable of reusing macroblocks much farther than WNCN's motion estimation engine can look in order to reuse macroblocks.

My guess as why the satellite company's picture quality is better on DirecTV is that the H.264 encoder at WNCN needed for DirecTV must be much more advanced than the MPEG-2 encoder at WNCN used to encode the signal for the antenna and cable feeds.

Do those of us that are employed need to start buying shares of Media General (NYSE:MEG), WNCN's owners, to tell management to give the funds its engineering departments need to buy better MPEG-2 encoders for WNCN and possibly other stations it owns, and to convert the newscasts to HD in order to get them to start competing with WRAL and WTVD? The only reason I watch WNCN is that it is the only local newscast other than News 14 Carolina that is available at a convenient time in prime time. If WRAL or WTVD starts to compete at the 7PM timeslot, I would go to them for the 7:00 news in a flash. WRAL recently replaced its encoder and now boasts picture quality that nearly rivals HDNet, at least on my very obsolete rear projection CRT HD monitor which requires a set-top box in order to translate any digital TV to component video. It is so old that HDMI was not invented when it was built.

NBC17ENG

02-24-09, 10:55 PM

Scooper

02-24-09, 11:06 PM

CCsoftball7

02-25-09, 08:56 AM

And if you can't do HD news - please leave it in correct aspect with pillar bars - like you're currently doing.

+1

NBC17ENG - We appreciate your participation in this thread. :)

drewwho

02-25-09, 08:59 AM

Interesting that DirecTV picks our signal up off air at Departure Ave in Raleigh, and Dish picks it up off air off Capital Blvd with regular antennas near Wake Forest.

I wonder if the original poster in the other thread is getting a "generic" NBC feed which was not coming from WNCN? I know that the NBC master feeds are supposed to be phenomenal quality high-bitrate MPEG4, so I suppose things would look a lot better going from the master feed's MPEG4 to DirectTV MPEG4 with no MPEG2 step in between...

As to the quality of football games. I hate to say it, but I have to agree with jnv11. I'd much rather see a game on WRAL than WNCN. I've actually noticed pixelization during some fast motion (close focus on a running player). I had originally thought that had something to do with the quality of the master feed provided by NBC vs CBS. But after reading some threads in the SageTV forums about people who watched the NBC master feed directly for the superbowl, I have to doubt that there is anything wrong with it. Heck, there are a few shows on WRAL that I watch mainly because they look so damned good (Flashpoint, Mentalist).

Drew

jnv11

02-25-09, 11:48 AM

Interesting that DirecTV picks our signal up off air at Departure Ave in Raleigh, and Dish picks it up off air off Capital Blvd with regular antennas near Wake Forest. Time-Warner gets their feed directly off my HD switcher via fiber with enough bandwidth to carry several HD channels. There's nothing but a beam of light between us and them.

As for bandwidth, you got 17.2 Mbs for the Super Bowl, and normally I send you 14-15 Mbs. 1080i is fine between 12 and 14 Mbs and my TWC DVR in my office looks great, even frame by frame.

It is a known fact that in some neighborhoods the TWC distribution system has had problems with our QAM frequency and passed other stations just fine. In every report I have gotten and passed on to TWC, they were able to resolve the issue 100% of the time. If you have pixellation and blocking, call them and they can usually ping your box from the Durham headend and know exactly what is happening. If you can't get results with their regular customer service reps, shoot me an email and I'll forward it to them and they will gladly look into it. It is not uncommon for a problem to come and go, so it may take them some time to determine what is going on.

We all read this forum. Not every engineer has the company's blessing to respond, but we all read and try to determine who has legitimate complaints. Engineers will not usually respond well to rants and opinions, but everyone of us will beat the bushes to resolve a real problem. You can certainly search the specs on our Harmonic MV 450 HD encoder. I have another software upgrade currently being shipped to enable the AFD passthrough that instructs the cable and satellite decoders how to down-convert the SD feed you get to letterbox or center cut. That's software version 4.10 if you want to keep track since I'm currently running version 3.85.

I've been a little busy lately, but I'll call TWC in the morning (or they will call me fist after reading this) and we'll see what we can see. Shoot, I'll punch up color bars for a few minutes tomorrow if we think it might show something is whacked.

As for News in HD, we really wanted to do it this month, but it just isn't cheap and easy to do, and money is tighter than I've ever seen it in over 30 years in broadcasting. We hope to do it as soon as the economy gets better and let's hope for later this year. I would stretch the picture for you, but you can do that yourself.

I am sorry if I offended you. I got the impression of low quality from many things: the presidential debates last year where WNCN's feed was less detailed and more full of artifacts like mosquito noise, football games, and the national news in HD.

As for how I guessed that there was an H.264 encoder on-site (even though it turned out to be wrong), here is how I thought:

MPEG-2 and H.264 are lossy. Therefore, each time either one is applied, something is lost in the image quality. Tiered compression helps minimize this, but best quality is achieved by just one compression. That is why I do not expect broadcast TV to match HDNet.
If something is decompressed and recompressed, expect picture quality to go down, not up.
Someone reported that WNCN picture quality was better on DirecTV than on cable, which I believe is equivalent to OTA due to the reported lack of rate-shaping on broadcast TV stations by TWC.
Therefore, I thought that to get better picture quality on DirecTV, someone must have installed an H.264 encoder onsite to WNCN to bypass its MPEG-2 encoder.

What puzzles me is if DirecTV is getting its signal OTA, how is the picture quality better on DirecTV than OTA or Time Warner Cable?

I wonder if DirecTV is substituting the national NBC feed whenever there is not enough difference between the national NBC feed and the local feed from WNCN? This would be one way to mitigate the multiple compression trap.

I don't know about the picture quality of the various primetime dramas because I am a news and sports junkie. It is possible that your encoder is able to handle the primetime dramas very well because such content originates as 24 frames per second, giving your encoder oodles of redundancy to dispose of, giving it more room to preserve detail. However, I am a news and sports watcher, not a drama watcher.

One excellent test I stumbled upon is whenever Obama is televised in HD, his small amount of hair seems to be giving many stations trouble. WRAL is able to show its detail, while WTVD and WNCN blurs out his hair. WTVD cannot be blamed because 720p has less pixels than 1080i, so such detail could possibly never have been captured in the first place. 720p is much better for sports at least when HDTV was in its infancy because sports in 1080i is much harder to compress, but is inappropriate for low-action stuff like most kinds of news. WTVD is given 720p and has to do the best it can with 720p. The blame lies with ABC in this case. Now, when it is obvious that Obama is being televised as upconverted 480i, this test is invalid.

P.S. Good job on not stretching the news.

P.P.S. I hope the software update will improve the compression algorithms used.

WildBill

02-25-09, 01:17 PM

jnv11 - I got a good chuckle out of your analysis of the various HD feeds during the presidents broadcast. I never thought of doing that but it is a good time (or only time) to compare the various feeds from practically the same source. The chuckle came from OUR (A/V community) fascination with all things A/V related. I will have to do that next time myself. :)

jnv11

02-25-09, 02:57 PM

thess

02-25-09, 04:31 PM

Can someone confirm for me that SciFI HD, USAHD and the other channels from that group are up and running now? I need to email SnapStream if so, they're just not showing up in BeyondTV. Usually they're pretty fast with the adds.

jnv11

02-25-09, 04:32 PM

thess

02-25-09, 05:27 PM

That's not a problem for me, they're just not in my EPG lineup and I'm too lazy to find the remote for the STB. (I've asked about SDV before for a friend with cablecard before though.)

Thanks!

tommy122

02-25-09, 05:38 PM

Yes, they are running, but they are on SDV.

How do you tell if something is SDV?

don6170

02-25-09, 07:20 PM

March 25, 2009: Jewelry TV launches on Channel 80.[/B]

What was the reason TWC gave for moving the Travel Channel off of the lower channels? Surely, it wasn't to make room for stuff like this.

I've always wondered why they never put anything on channel 9. I seem to recall in the old days of Alert Cable, channel 9 was Showtime or some other premium channel.

Blu-ray J

02-25-09, 07:22 PM

Is anyone else getting the same choppy picture as I am with ESPN HD? I'm on TWC.

scsiraid

02-25-09, 07:25 PM

Is anyone else getting the same choppy picture as I am with ESPN HD? I'm on TWC.

Thats pretty ugly.... yuck. No RS Uncorrected's though... must be from the feed.

Blu-ray J

02-25-09, 07:26 PM

Glad (relative) it isn't just on my end. Needs to get fixed hopefully before 9.

jnv11

02-25-09, 10:53 PM

How do you tell if something is SDV?

In Navigator, first tune to the channel. Then enter the software diagnostics by pressing and holding the "Select" button on the remote until the message light starts blinking. Then press down. One of the pages will tell you if you are in SDV or non-SDV mode. On ODN, I believe that this would be on page 8 of 9.

If you get an error stating that the channel is not available and to try again later, it is an SDV channel, the SDV pool has been maxed out, and the channel you are watching is not one of those selected by someone else who chose the channel before the SDV pool got maxed out.

toadfannc

02-26-09, 12:40 PM

scsiraid

02-26-09, 01:20 PM

How in the world can TWC be "maxed out" with SDV? Other TWC divisions (NYC, San Antonio, etc.) have 3 times as many HD channels as TWCNC. Is TWCNC just lacking implementing technology that other divisions already have?

TWC Raleigh still has significant Linear content which limits the effectiveness of SDV. The TiVo community would boil them in oil if they switched all the linear HD to SDV before the Tuning Adapter is rolled out :D

I hope they take the 3 QAM's with 3HD channels each to SDV... That should improve effectiveness as well as improve quality. Dumping 10 or so analogs would be even better....

scsiraid

02-26-09, 01:22 PM

gstelmack

02-26-09, 02:05 PM

tarheelone

02-26-09, 03:02 PM

tarheelone

02-26-09, 03:06 PM

Great, just what we need, another shopping channel. :mad:

I wonder if it'll have ads for those "Cash For Unwanted Gold Jewelry" companies.

My fear is that they are adding the SD version of it so they can add the HD version of it like they did Bravo. I don't understand adding an analog channel at the time most systems are dumping analog channels. Though Time Warner doesn't have a carriage agreement for the HD channel yet I wouldn't put it past them. There is alot more HD we need before we need the Jewelry channel HD. Pretty much anything is needed before the Jewelry Channel HD.

CCsoftball7

02-26-09, 03:14 PM

My fear is that they are adding the SD version of it so they can add the HD version of it like they did Bravo. I don't understand adding an analog channel at the time most systems are dumping analog channels.

What makes you think it's analog? I'm just curious...

tarheelone

02-26-09, 04:41 PM

What makes you think it's analog? I'm just curious...

The fact that it will be on channel 80. I'm guessing you'll be able to get it on a regular TV without a cable box so that would make it an analog channel. If they were adding it as a digital channel it would be up in the 100s with the rest of the digital channels. That's my guess anyway. I've been wrong before.

willobandb

02-26-09, 06:38 PM

Anybody check to see if Navigator correctly has Survivor at 2:05AM tomorrow morning, since it's being pre-empted for NC State @ Wake Forest? I need to double-check my DVR when I get home to make sure it's grabbing it in the correct time slot.

Yes it has the correct time for all the pre-empted CBS shows(aka Survivor and CSI). I checked last weekend and it already had the correct times. It's 2:07AM to be exact. :D

You may already know this, but don't forget to add some time to the end of the Survivor recording with the Record Options function (I added an hour, 30 minutes would have probably been enough). 2:07 am is the Survivor start time only if the NC State / Wake Forest game ends within its allocated time slot. If the game coverage runs over, everything following will do so as well.

Bob

toadfannc

02-27-09, 05:54 AM

NYC dumped 30 or more analog channels to make room for all that HD.

I guess all the analog will be dumped soon enough (June), right?

posg

02-27-09, 07:21 AM

I guess all the analog will be dumped soon enough (June), right?

wrong

toadfannc

02-27-09, 08:36 AM

wrong

Huh? Digital Transition ... is that just a myth?

Enlighten me-- why the hell would TWC keep analog channels around? Like I said before, some of the other TWC divisions are certainly doing it. Check out the NYC and San Antonio line-ups. They have at least twice as many HD channels as TWC NC. Apparently, they made room for them by dumping analog.

CCsoftball7

02-27-09, 09:33 AM

Huh? Digital Transition ... is that just a myth?

Enlighten me-- why the hell would TWC keep analog channels around? Like I said before, some of the other TWC divisions are certainly doing it. Check out the NYC and San Antonio line-ups. They have at least twice as many HD channels as TWC NC. Apparently, they made room for them by dumping analog.

The digital transition references how signals are sent OTA...cable has no such rule. If they were to go to all digital, older analog "cable ready" TV's would all need a box to decode as they are not digital.

toadfannc

02-27-09, 09:39 AM

The digital transition references how signals are sent OTA...cable has no such rule. If they were to go to all digital, older analog "cable ready" TV's would all need a box to decode as they are not digital.

I still don't understand why TWCNC would be keeping analog around when their other divisions are getting rid of it to make room for more HD.

scsiraid

02-27-09, 09:43 AM

I still don't understand why TWCNC would be keeping analog around when their other divisions are getting rid of it to make room for more HD.

They are keeping them around because

1) The customers that currently use analog only would be mad and require a cable box which TWC would probably have to provide free to keep regulators off their back

2) SDV is their plan to increase bandwidth.

That said... I would expect that they will eventually start killing a few analog channels to provide QAM's for SDV. Wouldnt take too many... 5-6 would go a loooong way.

I also believe a deal was struck that froze cable analogs until after the OTA digital transition... to avoid customer confusion.

http://www.ncta.com/IssueBriefs/DTVTransition.aspx

Cant resist this one...
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/174518-KARE_Man_Shoots_TV_Over_Converter_Confusion.php

Scooper

02-27-09, 10:36 AM

I foresee a day when there is no analog at all on cable, but that day hasn't gotten here yet either.

toadfannc

02-27-09, 11:15 AM

They are keeping them around because

1) The customers that currently use analog only would be mad and require a cable box which TWC would probably have to provide free to keep regulators off their back

2) SDV is their plan to increase bandwidth.

That said... I would expect that they will eventually start killing a few analog channels to provide QAM's for SDV. Wouldnt take too many... 5-6 would go a loooong way.

I also believe a deal was struck that froze cable analogs until after the OTA digital transition... to avoid customer confusion.

http://www.ncta.com/IssueBriefs/DTVTransition.aspx

Cant resist this one...
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/174518-KARE_Man_Shoots_TV_Over_Converter_Confusion.php

So, is the common belief here that TWCNC will not be able to add more HD channels until they kill some analogs?

scsiraid

02-27-09, 11:23 AM

So, is the common belief here that TWCNC will not be able to add more HD channels until they kill some analogs?

No.... Seems to me that they have several options... There is quite a lot of linear content that could be dumped to SDV.... They just may be reluctant to make that move. They currently have 8 QAM's dedicated to SDV (699Mhz - 741Mhz). They also have 4 QAM's of linear HD that are overcompressed (3 HD's per QAM). They could dump all 4 of those QAM's and their current payloads into the SDV bucket. They also have something like 3-4 more QAM's dedicated to digital simulcast. They could dump all that into QAM and move cablecards back to analog basics. They could also just dump a couple analog channels and move those to the SDV pool.

All of these options will pi$$ off the cablecard community though... as vats of oil begin to boil....

Dumping a few analogs would probably be the least painful path though....

tarheelone

02-27-09, 11:59 AM

How in the world can TWC be "maxed out" with SDV? Other TWC divisions (NYC, San Antonio, etc.) have 3 times as many HD channels as TWCNC. Is TWCNC just lacking implementing technology that other divisions already have?

TWCNC isn't maxed out on SDV. What jnv11 was saying about the SDV pool being maxed out is for your individual neighborhood. There are only so many SDV connections available for each neighborhood headend. If you get too many people drawing from the pool of connections at one time you may get the message that the channel is unavailable. The limited number of connections is one of the draw backs of SDV. There is still plenty of room for HD as they have moved alot of lesser viewed digital SD channels to SDV as well.

Huh? Digital Transition ... is that just a myth?

Enlighten me-- why the hell would TWC keep analog channels around? Like I said before, some of the other TWC divisions are certainly doing it. Check out the NYC and San Antonio line-ups. They have at least twice as many HD channels as TWC NC. Apparently, they made room for them by dumping analog.

As mentioned the digital transition only applies to OTA signials. As part of the digital transition, cable companies agreed to carry analog for at least 3 more years. So the June deadline will have no affect on the amount of analog on TWC. NYC has eliminated all but about 30 analog channels. There are a number of reason why TWC did that including cable theft, competition, etc. Because of their agreement to carry analog when TWC or Comcast go all digital they have to provide their customers with a free STB to convert the signal back for older analog TVs. Because of the amount of cable theft in NYC the cost of providing these boxes was cost efficent. It wouldn't be efficent to do the same in the Raleigh/Durham area right now.

tommy122

02-27-09, 02:03 PM

It seems to me that everyone is bending over backwards to pacify the people with 4:3 analog tv's. I would suggest that if you have a analog set, it's past time to upgrade and get into the 21st century. I have no idea what the ratio of analog to digital sets is, but certainly analog is becoming the minority. There is going to be a small minority that are going to keep their analog sets until they go dark. Is the whole country suppose to wait for this?

vidiot1985

02-27-09, 02:51 PM

...I have no idea what the ratio of analog to digital sets is, but certainly analog is becoming the minority. There is going to be a small minority that are going to keep their analog sets until they go dark. Is the whole country suppose to wait for this?

"Becoming" is the operative word there. I doubt we're there yet. My parents have a super-majority of analog-only TVs in their house. Heck, I do too, though most of them aren't plugged in :-). I suspect that even when a majority of households have at least one digital TV, they'd still have one or more analog TVs they want to continue using as they've used them forever (e.g. essentially for free, incrementally, which after the June deadline will mean old timey analog cable straight out of the wall socket for all such TVs).

As mentioned by others already, the cable operators could get rid of analog anytime they want. But they don't want to for a variety of reasons (e.g. they'd like to capture/retain remaining analog only tuner market and they'd rather not give away digital cable boxes for free for a few years in most markets).

pacify the people with 4:3 analog tv's

I think it bears repeating that digital != 16:9 or HD.

There's so much stuff even on nominally HD channels that don't need to be in HD or 16:9 or are 16:9 only because they're stretching the 4:3 source material.

There's plenty of worthwhile (and plenty of worthless, but still popular :-) content that only ever existed in 4:3.

damicatz

02-27-09, 02:58 PM

TWCNC isn't maxed out on SDV. What jnv11 was saying about the SDV pool being maxed out is for your individual neighborhood. There are only so many SDV connections available for each neighborhood headend. If you get too many people drawing from the pool of connections at one time you may get the message that the channel is unavailable. The limited number of connections is one of the draw backs of SDV. There is still plenty of room for HD as they have moved alot of lesser viewed digital SD channels to SDV as well.

As mentioned the digital transition only applies to OTA signials. As part of the digital transition, cable companies agreed to carry analog for at least 3 more years. So the June deadline will have no affect on the amount of analog on TWC. NYC has eliminated all but about 30 analog channels. There are a number of reason why TWC did that including cable theft, competition, etc. Because of their agreement to carry analog when TWC or Comcast go all digital they have to provide their customers with a free STB to convert the signal back for older analog TVs. Because of the amount of cable theft in NYC the cost of providing these boxes was cost efficent. It wouldn't be efficent to do the same in the Raleigh/Durham area right now.

I pay to watch television on my schedule and watch the channels that I pay for when I want too.

Having the SDV pool maxed out at any time is unacceptable given how much I pay for digital cable.

I can't wait for UVerse to come to my area (Chapel Hill/Carrboro).

jnv11

02-27-09, 03:41 PM

I only mentioned the maxed out situation just for completeness. I don't think that it ever happened at my head end. However, it might have been possible that it maxed out for a few seconds, because I recently got a channel is not available messages, but the channel then tuned in a second or two after the message appeared. I do not know if this was caused by DAVIC collisions or a temporary max out, so I am not going to accuse.

However, SDV was misconfigured during the Olympics, causing the temporary channels which were delivered by switched digital video, to fail for most of the time they were added.

Scooper

02-28-09, 10:29 AM

Did anyone else notice that WRAL disappeared from Dish channel 5 and OTA 5.1 / 5.2 at about 1 AM ? I'm assuming they were testing on 48, or had some other maintenance thing going.

tommy122

02-28-09, 03:12 PM

I have a question that I hope someone can answer. I just watched a movie on the SciFi HD channel which was presented in 16:9 aspect ratio filling the screen. The movie following it is presented with black bars on all 4 sides. I "think" this means that it is a 16:9 movie in a 4:3 frame. If I am correct, why don't they just pass it on through in 16:9 aspect ratio?

scsiraid

02-28-09, 03:27 PM

tommy122

02-28-09, 03:46 PM

I believe it is a 4x3 SD show which was recorded in letterbox. The HD channel simply added pillarbars to maintain proper aspect ratio.

Thanks. I'm not a letter box fan. I guess letter box gives you more in your field of vision to the left and right, but this is at the expense of vertical height. Personally, I would prefer that all movies fill the screen.

Scooper

02-28-09, 03:50 PM

Thanks. I'm not a letter box fan. I guess letter box gives you more in your field of vision to the left and right, but this is at the expense of vertical height. Personally, I would prefer that all movies fill the screen.

It's not as easy as that...

ybsane

02-28-09, 03:55 PM

I pay to watch television on my schedule and watch the channels that I pay for when I want too.

Having the SDV pool maxed out at any time is unacceptable given how much I pay for digital cable.

I can't wait for UVerse to come to my area (Chapel Hill/Carrboro).

The SDV is never maxed out, its all taken into account of how may tuners are on a node, such as a DVR counts as two tuners and the non DVR's counting as one. With that in mind everything is than in a service group with about 400 tuners set up and the SDV modulators could in theory handle 3 times that.

The only reason to get an error message if the return path has noise on it either coming from the home/field or that the amount of return loss through the house wiring is too much for the return tuners to compensate for.

With U-Verse they have their limitations with distance to the VRAD and other little quirks, I have seen it and was not impressed with the picture quality and a few other things. I was really expecting more from them.

tommy122

02-28-09, 03:58 PM

It's not as easy as that...

Yea, I realize that movies aren't made to fit a 16:9 screen.

tommy122

02-28-09, 04:07 PM

The SDV is never maxed out, its all taken into account of how may tuners are on a node, such as a DVR counts as two tuners and the non DVR's counting as one. With that in mind everything is than in a service group with about 400 tuners set up and the SDV modulators could in theory handle 3 times that.

The only reason to get an error message if the return path has noise on it either coming from the home/field or that the amount of return loss through the house wiring is too much for the return tuners to compensate for.

With U-Verse they have their limitations with distance to the VRAD and other little quirks, I have seen it and was not impressed with the picture quality and a few other things. I was really expecting more from them.

Ever since TWC added SciFi HD, USA HD, etc., I will get a message every now and then on those channels that service is not available, or words to that effect. If I change the channel and come back, most of the time I have the signal back. Is this likely to be a SDV issue?

ybsane

02-28-09, 04:25 PM

Ever since TWC added SciFi HD, USA HD, etc., I will get a message every now and then on those channels that service is not available, or words to that effect. If I change the channel and come back, most of the time I have the signal back. Is this likely to be a SDV issue?

Yes, if I go from a SDV channel on one QAM and than go to a non SDV channel and than back to a SDV channel on a different QAM I get the error message. Basically the problem happens with the response on the return for the Demod. and back out to the service group SDV QAM Modulator. 99% of the time it works in less than a second or two.

tommy122

02-28-09, 05:56 PM

Oldemanphil

02-28-09, 06:28 PM

tarheelone

02-28-09, 06:47 PM

The following channel additions have been announced on the Charlotte channel change page. As we've been getting the same channels at the same time as them for the past few months, it most likely means we will be seeing them on the 2nd as well. Hopefully won't be an April Fool's joke.

April 2, 2009: The following channels will be added:

Hallmark Channel HD - (Free HD)
Science Channel HD - (Free HD)
FX HD - (Free HD)
Travel Channel HD - (Free HD)
Outdoor Channel HD - (Free HD)
HBO West HD - (Free with HBO)
Showtime West HD - (Free with Showtime)

scsiraid

02-28-09, 06:52 PM

ybsane

02-28-09, 07:15 PM

NCCaniac

02-28-09, 08:12 PM

I just received my offering from AT&T for U-verse. Reading through it quickly, it looks pretty good. I don't think that I'm going to be the first kid on the block to sign up for it, but I'm going to keep a close eye on this thread for comments.

Ditto! It is not available in my neighborhood yet, but I am really hoping this will create some good competition. I have DISH now, and would consider switching if I could get a comparable package for a lower price.

larc919

03-01-09, 08:31 PM

What's wrong with HD tonight? The only channel I'm getting in HD is WLFL (22.1) on TWC QAM. Yet programs on the other network channels should all be HD.

jnv11

03-01-09, 08:33 PM

What's wrong with HD tonight? The only channel I'm getting in HD is WLFL (22.1) on TWC QAM. Yet programs on the other network channels should all be HD.

Apparently some of the stations are switching to SD to televise the snow closing alerts.

Scooper

03-01-09, 09:26 PM

Apparently some of the stations are switching to SD to televise the snow closing alerts.

Not an issue on WRAL

rbarans

03-02-09, 10:00 AM

Does anyone happen to know if WRAL and TWC will continue to broadcast all NCAA Tournament games as they have been for the past couple of years? Been searching through wral.com and twc and can't find any confirmation.

Only concerned b/c I am soon to disconnect TWC and get the dish, but will wait until after the NCAAs so I don't have to pay for the dish's MEGA MM package.

Thanks

drewwho

03-02-09, 10:13 AM

Not an issue on WRAL

But it is an issue on their sister station, WRAZ.

Both the last night's 10pm and this morning's 7am "WRAL News in HD" were in SD. We watch the local news mostly during weather events, so it really stinks to have stations dropping to SD to run closing crawls. The tail end of the WRAL 6am news on WRAL was fine. They just loose something when it goes to WRAZ, I guess.

Drew

tommy122

03-02-09, 12:26 PM

But it is an issue on their sister station, WRAZ.

Both the last night's 10pm and this morning's 7am "WRAL News in HD" were in SD. We watch the local news mostly during weather events, so it really stinks to have stations dropping to SD to run closing crawls. The tail end of the WRAL 6am news on WRAL was fine. They just loose something when it goes to WRAZ, I guess.

Drew

I noticed last night on WRAL (255 cable channel) ran the crawls without reverting to SD. They did drop DD during the crawls.

I'm not a techie person, so I will ask. Why is it necessary to drop something in order to run crawls?

NCCaniac

03-02-09, 12:34 PM

I just received my offering from AT&T for U-verse. Reading through it quickly, it looks pretty good. I don't think that I'm going to be the first kid on the block to sign up for it, but I'm going to keep a close eye on this thread for comments.

I forgot one question. Was AT&T in your neighborhood laying cable prior to receiving the U-verse offer? If so, how long was it between when they finished laying the cable and when the offer arrived?

SugarBowl

03-02-09, 12:38 PM

tommy122

03-02-09, 04:58 PM

I forgot one question. Was AT&T in your neighborhood laying cable prior to receiving the U-verse offer? If so, how long was it between when they finished laying the cable and when the offer arrived?

To be honest, I didn't notice. Prior to having TWC, I had DSL through Earthlink. I "think" that the installer told me that I had fiber optic at the curb. That's been several years ago and the ol' memory ain't what it use to be:) I received my AT&T offering in the mail Saturday.

rbarans

03-02-09, 07:51 PM

[QUOTE=SugarBowl;15949876]Yes. Most of the games are available OTA from wral.

Thanks. Knew about the online streaming of all games - a great thing to have handy at work. Planning all day watching on Friday from home, so I'm glad to hear WRAL will still broadcast all 4 HD feeds.

Thanks again.

SouthernJet

03-03-09, 12:20 PM

I am in raleigh and have a 8300HD I believe..
Lately I have been getting DVRed programs freezing and not going forward even though I can see it recorded whole program. Also I am getting some programs where it will stop, jump ahead a few seconds and sometimes show another picture beneath the one I recorded. Then mant times the show will be recorded and viewed perfect. I also am getting some 'Not available, error 32' messages when trying to access On Demand stuff. I fi reboot teh On Demand comes in fine.

Is it a bad box or a issue with cable?
Some one said maybe deleting all DVRed saved programs might help in some way???? Clear file problems??

I hate to get new box as I am afraid all settings wont get carried over and i will see wierd picture or bad sound.

NCCaniac

03-03-09, 01:15 PM

To be honest, I didn't notice. Prior to having TWC, I had DSL through Earthlink. I "think" that the installer told me that I had fiber optic at the curb. That's been several years ago and the ol' memory ain't what it use to be:) I received my AT&T offering in the mail Saturday.

Hmm....my subdivision is three years old and I have DSL currently for internet (TV via DISH). I wonder if I have fiber at the curb already?

PedjaR

03-03-09, 03:18 PM

scsiraid

03-03-09, 04:03 PM

It's now on Carolinas web page:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

Except Outdoor Channel HD isnt part of Free HD here..... Have to have a subscription to the sports and games tier.

PedjaR

03-03-09, 05:14 PM

Except Outdoor Channel HD isnt part of Free HD here..... Have to have a subscription to the sports and games tier.

True, good point.

"Free HD" is a marketing misnomer that annoys me. You can't get HD channels that have Variety Pack SD versions without subscribing to Variety Pack. This includes Planet Green, ESPNEWS, ESPNU, SPEED, BIO, and will most likely include Science Channel as well as Travel Channel when they arrive. Granted, probably Variety Pack is the most popular Digital Tier, but it is not the only one, and for some people (me included) not the one with the best programming.

Scooper

03-04-09, 09:06 AM

It appears that WLFL and WRDC have ceased their analog Nightlight operations this morning, joining WRAY in turning off analog.

drewwho

03-04-09, 01:59 PM

It appears that WLFL and WRDC have ceased their analog Nightlight operations this morning, joining WRAY in turning off analog.

Have their digital broadcast moved from their pre- to their post- transition frequencies?

Drew

Scooper

03-04-09, 03:19 PM

Have their digital broadcast moved from their pre- to their post- transition frequencies?

Drew

Not as far as I have been able to tell - My guess is that will still happen June 12 unless the stations already have an STA to move.

scsiraid

03-04-09, 03:23 PM

Not as far as I have been able to tell - My guess is that will still happen June 12 unless the stations already have an STA to move.

It would seem that they should be ok to move... 28 was on 27 and is moving to 28 which they just vacated... 22 was on 57 and going to 27 which 28 would vacate.

Scooper

03-04-09, 04:15 PM

It would seem that they should be ok to move... 28 was on 27 and is moving to 28 which they just vacated... 22 was on 57 and going to 27 which 28 would vacate.

Normally, I would agree with you - but the DTV delay is making things wilder than usual at the FCC. I would swear that Commisioner Copps is doing everything in his power to totally STOP the DTV transition

HDMe2

03-04-09, 06:30 PM

On a related note, channels 17 and 50 in HD haven't been available via Dish Network today. No problems with 5 and 11, but 17 and 50 are a no show. OTA reception is fine.

Anyone on DirecTV having any issues with their LiL from Raleigh? Or any Dish customers actually getting all of them?

jello212

03-04-09, 09:24 PM

HDDON2

03-05-09, 10:30 AM

I'm having the same problem. 17 & 50 are no shows.

I have no reception on Dish for 17 & 50. All other channels are ok. Noticed it last night.

dslate69

03-05-09, 12:43 PM

Had Directv installed yesterday. 50 and 17 worked fine the same time they were MIA on DISH.
Luckily for most it wasn't 11 with Lost or 5 Wednesday usually having ACC.
But the Heels were on ESPN anyway.

HDMe2

03-05-09, 02:32 PM

Both 17 and 50 are back this afternoon. Not sure what the problem was or when it got fixed, but they seem to be back now.

posg

03-06-09, 04:12 PM

dslate69

03-07-09, 08:14 PM

Smart switch old friend.;););)
:D
I tell you, I was at one with the DISH remote, now I have to relearn. I am not used to looking at the remote before I hit a button. But now when I hit a button it goes to more HD, which is all I really care about. :D

So I take it you are still with D*, what is your revised forecast on TWC getting your business back. I have long said that just because TWC gets capacity doesn't mean they will add HD channels at more than a dead snails pace. Maybe U-verse will end up pulling them along a bit.

kphone

03-08-09, 04:09 PM

Scooper

03-08-09, 04:22 PM

Don't rule out Dish or Direct until you get here - I personally live in a place you would swear make DBS impossible - but I've been a Dish sub since Oct 2000.

posg

03-08-09, 04:44 PM

:D
I tell you, I was at one with the DISH remote, now I have to relearn. I am not used to looking at the remote before I hit a button. But now when I hit a button it goes to more HD, which is all I really care about. :D

So I take it you are still with D*, what is your revised forecast on TWC getting your business back. I have long said that just because TWC gets capacity doesn't mean they will add HD channels at more than a dead snails pace. Maybe U-verse will end up pulling them along a bit.

Last summer I took a job in Seattle. As much as I wanted to get back to the Pacific Northwest, I got cold feet and decided NOT to take the job AFTER we'd sold the house. As it turns out, I'm glad to have gotten out of the house as I would have been upside down in it by now.

The result is that we moved to an apartment without access to D*, so I'm back with TWC. Actually they keep giving us a half a dozen new HD channels a month, and I suspect they'll continue to do so as they (TWC) now has programming deals with all the major providers (save NFL Network).

TWC has actually rolled out a line-up in the NYC market that rivals D*, (unless of course one needs 89 duplicative or mostly dark regional sports networks.) As all of NC and SC TWC markets gets the same adds at the same time, I would guess that they'll be pretty much caught up with D* by the end of the year.

Given that, I doubt that I would go back to D*, or U-verse until I'm convinced their HD PQ doesn't suck, which I've heard that it does.

Enjoy D*. It is the best provider for now.

jnv11

03-08-09, 06:24 PM

I am moving to Raleigh 3/27/09, any suggestions on Cable/Internet providers? I have Dish where I am now, but doubt, because of trees I can get it in Raleigh. Who would you recommend TWC or U-Verse, for cable and internet, is one better than the other?

Thank you,

Ken in Columbus, Oh

For Internet providers, the best ISP depends on what you need. Road Runner is generally great, but it has its weaknesses.

First, Road Runner is relatively spam-free. Second, slowdowns due to maxed-out cable lines are rare where I live in Cary (which borders Raleigh to the west), so I think that you do not have to worry about this. The problems with Road Runner are higher latency (which is important to ssh users and gamers), and the lack of newsgroups because of some stupidity by Andrew Cuomo, the New York attorney general who thought that forcing ISPs to drop newsgroups would cut down on the child porn and threatened Road Runner with a lawsuit if they didn't cut off access to alt.* due to alt.sex.* . (I think that Cuomo should stick to investigating Wall Street where he is much smarter on but should stay away from the Internet where he is showing this ridiculous stupidity).

AT&T has newsgroups, ESPN 360, and lower latency. The lower latency comes from the fact that DSL and U-verse are point-to-point connections, allowing the machine that aggregates the connections to queue up the upload stuff without collisions, unlike cable where the inability of cable modems to listen to upstream paths invariably cause collisions. DOCSIS does a good job of minimizing them, but cannot eliminate them. However, SORBS still lists this ISP's email servers as spam sources because of its history at one time of being a massive spamhaus, which forced my family to leave it due to blocked emails. While the Spamhaus Project's listings shows some major cleanup from those days, AT&T refuses to pay the extortion SORBS demands to get off of its spam block list. Therefore, many ISPs that have not dumped this extortion house will refuse your email.

zim2dive

03-08-09, 06:29 PM

jnv11

03-08-09, 11:19 PM

The other "advantage" of DSL is that AT&T offers more levels of service.. ie. TWC pretty much offers you 1(.5?) or 7 Mbps.. nothing in between.. DSL offers you the chance to get 1-2 price points in between if that's all the speed you want to pay for. Granted, one can often negotiate TWC to a lower rate and still keep the 7Mbps, but if TWC offered a 3-4Mbps rate, I'd probably choose to lower my bill to that.

So I'm currently weaning myself off my RR addr of 6+ years so I can make the switch at some point soon, or at least be fully ready to make the switch unless TWC is willing to match the pricing points they don't offer.

Minor point, but...

You forgot Road Runner's maximum level of service: Road Runner Turbo with PowerBoost. This offers 10Mbps downstream and 512kbps upstream guaranteed with the possibility of up to 16Mbps with the PowerBoost QOS settings that allows a burst of download speed if there is capacity to spare after all other customers have taken their share of the remaining througput and you have not constantly maxed out your connection all the time.

Also, one advantage of U-Verse that I mentioned can be reduced if the circuit to your house from the telco equipment is fiber. While copper limits download speed, having many point-to-point copper circuits get agregated at one point before it transmits to a fiber as a single entity can really cut latency. However, if the endpoint is fiber, you had better hope that you are using an active optical network (AON) instead of a passive optical network (PON) if latency is important.

AON works just like a switched Ethernet, so you get low and nearly-constant latency access unless the head end starts getting maxed out. This is exactly the same benefit to latency that would be delivered if the line to the house is VDSL, which would be the copper solution used by U-Verse if AT&T decides to deliver copper to the house instead of fiber.

PON shares the upstream path, which can cause widely variable and increased latency but apparently does so in a way that avoids collisions by creating some overhead needed to avoid them, unlike DOCSIS which tries to minimize overhead by risking some collisions on contention time slots used to transmit very short amounts of data, maintenance, or dedicated bandwidth requests.

However, PON still looks like it probably will deliver less latency than DOCSIS because PON has lots of upstream througput available and can sacrifice some of it to avoid collisions. DOCSIS has to accept some collisions to minimize overhead because all of the upstream has to fit into the 5-42Mhz band reserved for upstream services (which traditionally was the way a city or county government would transmit analog video to the cableco to be remodulated for the public, educational, and government channel) while upstream can use anywhere from 54MHz on up.

dslate69

03-09-09, 09:55 AM

... I would guess that they'll (TWC) be pretty much caught up with D* by the end of the year.
I think a box got dropped on your head during the move, but at least I got my nemesis back. :)
Do a search back of all your other TWC HD predictions. It's not pretty. ;)

Enjoy D*. It is the best provider for now.
No regrets so far. I am really impressed with the VOD, of course coming from E* the bar couldn't have been lower. The selling point for me though was actual HD instead of promises of.

---
I feel for you on your transition to an apartment from that nice house you had. I'll come help you set your dish in a bucket of concrete; I just hate to see you give up on the HD leader without a fight. :D

dslate69

03-09-09, 10:12 AM

...First, Road Runner is relatively spam-free. Second, slowdowns due to maxed-out cable lines are rare where I live in Cary

No one should be using ISP mail in my opinion. Gmail and others have pop\imap and then you are never tied to a ISP because of losing your email address.
I have never noticed any slowdowns due to sharing cable lines but I am sure my neighbors have. :D

... and the lack of newsgroups

I switched to earthlink through TWC cable to get newsgroups after RR dropped them. They use giganews as their back-end and retention is great. It's the same RR speeds rebranded and only $29 for the first 6 months then still a few $'s cheaper after that.

larc919

03-09-09, 04:28 PM

I switched to earthlink through TWC cable to get newsgroups after RR dropped them. They use giganews as their back-end and retention is great. It's the same RR speeds rebranded and only $29 for the first 6 months then still a few $'s cheaper after that.The deal is better only if the original signup or switch is done through Earthlink. TWC will do it, but their ultimate price will be the same as for RR.

dslate69

03-09-09, 05:04 PM

The deal is better only if the original signup or switch is done through Earthlink. TWC will do it, but their ultimate price will be the same as for RR.
Yea I found that out too. I went through earthlink like I should but while I was on the phone they tried to contact twc to make the switch; hold time was too long (like always) so they gave up and told me to call TWC later. I did and they didn't want to give me the price I was quoted; blah blah. I ended up getting it done like it should be but I was disappointed when I found out my billing is still done through twc. I was trying to make a clean break from an awful company. I just hope I never need customer service on the hardware side.

csimon2

03-09-09, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by tommy122
Ever since TWC added SciFi HD, USA HD, etc., I will get a message every now and then on those channels that service is not available, or words to that effect. If I change the channel and come back, most of the time I have the signal back. Is this likely to be a SDV issue?

+1:mad:
I had the same problem last weekend too... Only nothing would get the SDV channels to flip on. I called up TWC, which was completely useless and they had to send out a guy to come to my house and check the line. When the technician arrived, I told him the issue and he immediately knew the problem. He basically said that the 8300 has a difficult time sometimes with two-way communication. In order to get the box out of this "funk", you should go to channel 501 or 298 and view a quick FREE VOD clip for a few seconds. I haven't had this issue force a missed scheduled recording yet, but if that happens that will be the end of TWC for me.

kphone

03-09-09, 06:48 PM

tommy122 do u still have the U-Verse info u received? I would like to compare $$ & what is included in RDU verses here in Columbus, OH since I am moving to Raleigh end of the month.

Thanks, Ken

msb2ncsu

03-09-09, 10:51 PM

tommy122 do u still have the U-Verse info u received? I would like to compare $$ & what is included in RDU verses here in Columbus, OH since I am moving to Raleigh end of the month.

Thanks, Ken

Ken, use the following address and you can check out the pricing and such yourself:

6733 Eastbrook Dr
Raleigh, NC 27615

U-Verse service availability (https://uverse1.att.com/un/launchAMSS.do?target_action=serviceabilityCheck)

SouthernJet

03-10-09, 12:10 PM

zim2dive

03-10-09, 12:23 PM

bump

... set ...

nitdawg

03-10-09, 12:32 PM

...spike!...

nitdawg

03-10-09, 12:38 PM

Yea I found that out too. I went through earthlink like I should but while I was on the phone they tried to contact twc to make the switch; hold time was too long (like always) so they gave up and told me to call TWC later. I did and they didn't want to give me the price I was quoted; blah blah. I ended up getting it done like it should be but I was disappointed when I found out my billing is still done through twc. I was trying to make a clean break from an awful company. I just hope I never need customer service on the hardware side.

I've been considering the switch to Earthlink. I am dropping TW cable and phone (going OTA and using my new HTPC :D), so without those discounts RR is $49.95 and Earthlink is $41.95 after the promotional period, both for the 7 Mbps

David-the-dtv-ma

03-10-09, 11:25 PM

VisionOn

03-11-09, 12:12 AM

bump

Instead of bumping try posting in the Navigator thread.

jnv11

03-11-09, 02:28 AM

I like dsL best because you have your own copper to the mutiplexer. Cable modem is really like a party line. Some PCs that could be down the street from you that are unlawfuly set up can liston to your user id, pass word & credit card numbers. You can encript your browser but the unlawful are atempting to crack it. Since every one in a neighborhood using the same coax cable I think the lowest level of cable modem isp should start out as $10.00 at an every day price.

Also you can get the dsL with out tv cable if you want.

I have dish with all of the channels but I watch the local channel most of the time. I really wonder if the satilight channels are worth the money & maybe OTA is all I need. You could try just ota to begin with & see if you go into withdraw. You may find you do not miss the other channels that are not OTA much ,if at all.

Then after 3 weeks of just ota if you are really missing the other channels then you could check into installing your dish

Actually, DOCSIS 1.x and 2.0 can encrypt all Internet traffic with DES (which is done here as evidenced by the cable modem diagnostics showing that "baseline privacy" has been initialized), but DES has been brute-forced, but you need specialized hardware to do that. DOCSIS 3.0 has the option of encrypting traffic with AES, which has yet to suffer any significant and successful attacks and is considered extremely strong and is still secure as of this writing.

DOCSIS Set-top Gateway (which is DOCSIS modified for use with cable boxes) cannot use any data-link layer encryption because it is designed to degrade to one-way mode gracefully if the upstream path becomes unusable, and generating a key for DES or AES requires two-way communication. However, messages can be encrypted as needed by software in the application layer instead of hardware in the data link layer when security is important.

David-the-dtv-ma

03-11-09, 01:08 PM

Actually, DOCSIS 1.x and 2.0 can encrypt all Internet traffic with DES (which is done here as evidenced by the cable modem diagnostics showing that "baseline privacy" has been initialized), but DES has been brute-forced, but you need specialized hardware to do that. DOCSIS 3.0 has the option of encrypting traffic with AES, which has yet to suffer any significant and successful attacks and is considered extremely strong and is still secure as of this writing.

DOCSIS Set-top Gateway (which is DOCSIS modified for use with cable boxes) cannot use any data-link layer encryption because it is designed to degrade to one-way mode gracefully if the upstream path becomes unusable, and generating a key for DES or AES requires two-way communication. However, messages can be encrypted as needed by software in the application layer instead of hardware in the data link layer when security is important.

My point is cable modem isp is over priced. With the risk of it & the shared use of the coax it should be only $10.00 a month. To make it match the security of dsL would be to install one way frequency amps, filters & frequency traps or put the cable modem in a locked box on the pole. But dsL has a seperate copper pair of wire running back to the multiplexer. No one else shares that copper pair. Thus the cost would be understanabley more that a public shared coax. On dsL no one can moniter what leaves my house & between the multiplexer in their home. But they can on when the isp uses a single coax. If the digitaly modulated frequency is comming into your home sent from some one else then it is avaliable. Sure it may be encripted but you are trusting the the TV cable to establish the security to protect you.

drewwho

03-11-09, 03:08 PM

On dsL no one can moniter what leaves my house & between the multiplexer in their home.

Some DSL providers like AT&T don't exactly have a stellar record of protecting consumer privacy (http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/04/70619).

Drew

jnv11

03-11-09, 04:18 PM

My point is cable modem isp is over priced. With the risk of it & the shared use of the coax it should be only $10.00 a month. To make it match the security of dsL would be to install one way frequency amps, filters & frequency traps or put the cable modem in a locked box on the pole. But dsL has a seperate copper pair of wire running back to the multiplexer. No one else shares that copper pair. Thus the cost would be understanabley more that a public shared coax. On dsL no one can moniter what leaves my house & between the multiplexer in their home. But they can on when the isp uses a single coax. If the digitaly modulated frequency is comming into your home sent from some one else then it is avaliable. Sure it may be encripted but you are trusting the the TV cable to establish the security to protect you.

Actually, it should be priced at a level that allows the ISP to make the maximum amount of money. If it is too high, the ISP loses customers. If it is too low, it won't make enough money to keep the banks lending their money to the ISP happy (and out of failure, which would otherwise force the FDIC to take them over wasting our tax dollars should its Deposit Insurance Fund get depleted), deal with spammers (it won't have enough money to implement a good antispam filter nor afford to ban spammers on its own network), and build the reserves needed to upgrade its speed (either by splitting its network to implement more head ends, adding more channels, or migrating to DOCSIS 3.0), allowing the telco to surpass it and steal customers, and keep its investors (stock holders) happy. Capitalism is the best way for ISPs to operate, though I feel that ISPs that intentionally host malware and tools that help spammers use botnets should be held liable for conspiracy to commit vandalism and be shut down. (I don't believe that capitalism works in every industry. For example, capitalism does not quite work out very well in banking or healthcare, as our current health care and financial crises have shown. These industries need lots of smart regulation to work well. Dumb regulation kills them, and drive calls for blanket deregulation which often doesn't work either.)

Second, cable modems use bidirectional amplifiers. Downstream frequencies are amplified and/or attenuated as needed going away from the head end, and upstream frequencies are amplified and/or attenuated as needed going toward the head end. They do not amplify the upstream path at all away from the head end and probably block traffic going the wrong way.

Third, it also matters what is going on in the network behind the local head end (for cable) or DSLAM (for DSL). At the time we switched to Road Runner, BellSouth was stupid enough to not kick off its spammers, filling our e-mail boxes full of spam and causing other ISPs to start firewalling BellSouth's email servers because they were using the SORBS blacklist. AT&T has kicked off some of the spammers, but it still has quite a few spammers who are members of The Spamhaus Project's ROKSO database of diehard spammers. This has kept AT&T's email servers on the SORBS blacklist. The filthy backend is why I cannot recommend AT&T.

Sure, DSL is marginally more secure than cable modems using DOCSIS 1.x and 2.0 if everything else is equal, but it won't matter if someone has compromised a router between you and your destination or if your ISP is stupid enough to intentionally host malware or spammers. If you need security, use IPsec, TLS, or SSL.

StinDaWg

03-11-09, 08:02 PM

jnv11

03-11-09, 11:26 PM

abward

03-12-09, 08:10 AM

StinDaWg,

I live near the Y in Cary, so it would be nearly the same distance to the towers as you. I have an antenna in my attic, and I get:

4.1
4.2
4.3
5.1
5.2
11.1
11.2
11.3
17.1
17.2
17.3
22.1
28.1
40.1
40.2
50.1
50.2
50.3

And I think there was a shopping channel around 30 that I deleted. UNC is the hardest to get, since it is the opposite direction of most of the other channels. But you can get it too, if you have a bi-directional antenna.

I even get all of these stations with a 5" long wire antenna sitting on my desk (for a USB tuner on my PC), although I do get some break up of the signal at times.

jaysoffian

03-12-09, 10:07 AM

Anyone here live in the Apex/Holly Springs/Fuquay area? Are you able to pick up all the locals using an indoor antenna? If so, what do you use? I'm considering dropping cable because it's like $83 a month for digital and a dvr. If I can't get all the locals I will probably just get the $7.99 a month basic package and buy a HD Homerun tuner to use as a dvr for free. I'm assuming I would just get the locals and a few other garbage channels like Home shopping, Cspan, WGN, ect? Anyone do this and not look back? The only channel I would really miss is ESPN but I think I can live. ESPN is not worth $83 a month to me.

I'm about a mile from ten-ten and kildaire farm. I've got a channelmaster 4221 in my attic (it's a 2 story house). I pick up all the locals fine. I had an Antennas Direct DB2, but a couple stations were iffy on that. I've got my antenna pointed west. The towers I'm interested in are NW (WUNC) and E (WRAL, WTVD, WNCN, WRAZ, WLFL) of me, with the E tower much closer. I got better reception picking up the E tower thru the back of the antenna and the NW tower on the front, than pointing the antenna N or S and picking up from the side.

You can use www.antennaweb.org to find out what you should need for your location. I also plotted all the towers and my house on google maps because I'm a dork and it was fun to do. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=101005935715223406414.00045693718be10ba6600&ll=35.719758,-78.961487&spn=1.980105,1.93634&z=9

I'm using an HDHomeRun w/EyeTV, but I'm considering getting a TiVo HD DVR.

j.

SugarBowl

03-12-09, 12:05 PM

zim2dive

03-12-09, 12:28 PM

tommy122

03-12-09, 02:23 PM

drewwho

03-12-09, 02:28 PM

I was watching a show on WRAL HD (255 on TWC) the other night and noticed that every time they showed the TV 5 logo, DD switched off and as soon as the logo went away, it went back to DD. This was very annoying because it was happening every couple of minutes. What's up with that? I don't see this on other channels.

Ah, that explains what I was hearing. I just run HDMI into my TV, and I have no idea what fancy sound mode it is using, but I hear audio glitches whenever the WRAL logo appears and disappears.

Drew

tommy122

03-12-09, 02:35 PM

Ah, that explains what I was hearing. I just run HDMI into my TV, and I have no idea what fancy sound mode it is using, but I hear audio glitches whenever the WRAL logo appears and disappears.

Drew

Yep, that's it. I find it to be very annoying and since it doesn't seem to happen on other networks, I don't see why WRAL does this. They seem to be on the cutting edge of technology on most everything else.

drewwho

03-12-09, 02:52 PM

Yep, that's it. I find it to be very annoying and since it doesn't seem to happen on other networks, I don't see why WRAL does this. They seem to be on the cutting edge of technology on most everything else.

It is probably some encoder glitch. It seems to have either appeared, or at least gotten worse in the last week or two. I never used to notice it.

Drew

tommy122

03-12-09, 03:18 PM

It is probably some encoder glitch. It seems to have either appeared, or at least gotten worse in the last week or two. I never used to notice it.

Drew

I just watched "Criminal Minds", which I recorded last night off TWC 255 and it had the DD interruptions when the logo showed. I am now watching "CSI NY" and it's doing the same thing. Don't the engineers and techs notice this? Surely someone is monitoring what they are sending out..... then again, maybe not. Certainly doesn't look like it.

drill

03-12-09, 05:48 PM

I just watched "Criminal Minds", which I recorded last night off TWC 255 and it had the DD interruptions when the logo showed. I am now watching "CSI NY" and it's doing the same thing. Don't the engineers and techs notice this? Surely someone is monitoring what they are sending out..... then again, maybe not. Certainly doesn't look like it.

i just started watching episodes of the mentalist i have recorded from last fall. i noticed the switch from DD -> Pro Logic -> DD during those episodes. so it has been happening for a while (or at least it was happening back then, and now its back). its incredibly annoying ... as everytime it does it, it takes my receiver a second or two to resync, so i lose 1-2 seconds of audio. i had to turn on closed captioning to follow the story. i hope WRAL gets this fixed soon.

drewwho

03-14-09, 04:18 PM

its incredibly annoying ... as everytime it does it, it takes my receiver a second or two to resync, so i lose 1-2 seconds of audio. i had to turn on closed captioning to follow the story. i hope WRAL gets this fixed soon.

For me, it isn't so much the audio glitch that is annoying. Changing the audio stream seems to momentarily confuse my SageTV HD Extender, so that I see a small video glitch as well. If they insert or remove the logo in a static scene, it is not noticeable. But I missed about 15 feet of running a fast break in one of the ACC games due to the logo insertion. Do you also have the video glitches with the logo insertion?

Drew

tommy122

03-14-09, 05:08 PM

For me, it isn't so much the audio glitch that is annoying. Changing the audio stream seems to momentarily confuse my SageTV HD Extender, so that I see a small video glitch as well. If they insert or remove the logo in a static scene, it is not noticeable. But I missed about 15 feet of running a fast break in one of the ACC games due to the logo insertion. Do you also have the video glitches with the logo insertion?

Drew
I have video glitches also. I wrote WRAL and this was the response:

"Please bear with us; we are in the middle of an upgrade project that will take care of this!"

It appears that they are aware of the problem so, hopefully, it will go away soon.

sooke

03-15-09, 12:04 AM

Hhmm...

Never noticed this on WRAL. Only have noticed audio glitches on TNTHD during opening credits of the Closer.

jnv11

03-16-09, 06:48 PM

I noticed that the bootstrapper version was updated today, and then looked in the hardware diagnostics. Apparently, ODN 3.1.10_11 has been loaded onto the server.

EDIT: OOPS! I got the version number wrong. It should be 3.1.0_11, not 3.1.10_11. I got it mixed up with 2.4.10_11 in my head!

tarheelone

03-16-09, 11:59 PM

Although not on the channel change page for Raleigh yet, it looks like we will be getting AMC HD on April 2 instead of the Hallmark Movie Channel HD.

toadfannc

03-17-09, 08:09 AM

Although not on the channel change page for Raleigh yet, it looks like we will be getting AMC HD on April 2 instead of the Hallmark Movie Channel HD.

What makes you say so? I certainly hope this is the case. I see that Charlotte's web site has made the switch-- so that may be your indicator. Hallmark is worthless (I have Dish Network now, but switching back to TWC). AMC, at least, has a couple of series (Breaking Bad, Mad Men) in HD.

hbehrman

03-17-09, 09:28 AM

I have a CM 1018 and 4221 joined with a splitter (bidirectional you know) and a CM 7777 preamp in my attic using quad RG59. The signal is distributed throughout the house via the TW distribution box. The 1018 is pointed to Clayton, the 4221 pointed to Chapel Hill. I get all the stations listed previously at either 100% signal strength or close to it. My location is just West of Lake Wheeler an east of Holly Springs Road, between 1010 and Penny.

tarheelone

03-17-09, 10:42 AM

What makes you say so? I certainly hope this is the case. I see that Charlotte's web site has made the switch-- so that may be your indicator. Hallmark is worthless (I have Dish Network now, but switching back to TWC). AMC, at least, has a couple of series (Breaking Bad, Mad Men) in HD.

Charlotte and Greensboro's web sites both say AMC now. Since the entire state has been getting the same channels on the same day for the past 6 months, I feel like the odds are pretty good that we too will be getting AMC instead of Hallmark.

sooke

03-17-09, 10:51 AM

I noticed that the bootstrapper version was updated today, and then looked in the hardware diagnostics. Apparently, ODN 3.1.10_11 has been loaded onto the server.

What is ODN 3.1.10_11? What will it do for us?

tarheelone

03-17-09, 11:00 AM

I got an email from Time Warner this morning and they will indeed be offering all the games in HD again this year:

Once again, Time Warner Cable will give viewers the opportunity to see additional games played during the NCAA College Basketball tournament!

Time Warner Cable customers can watch the regional games on WRAL cable channel 3, or in high definition on channel 255. See alternate games on digital channels 1061, 1062, 1063 and 1064 or on high definition channels 1051, 1052, 1053 and 1054. Tune to channel 1065 to see additional games and complete tournament coverage from CBS College Sports. This is a college basketball fan's dream come true!

The schedule and more information can be found here: http://www.timewarnercable.com/carolinas/learn/programming/sports/ncaa.html

jnv11

03-17-09, 11:06 AM

What is ODN 3.1.10_11? What will it do for us?

ODN is the Java-based cable box software package known as Navigator for people who have any of the Scientific Atlanta or Cisco cable boxes whose model number ends in a C or HDC, or the newer Samsung boxes. ODN 3.1.10_11 is the latest version and is supposed to have more features, fewer bugs, a better color scheme, and more speed. However, some people have experienced problems with certain eSATA drives.

This update has nothing to do with legacy Scientific Atlanta boxes without a C in their model numbers.

EDIT: OOPS! I got the version number wrong. It should be 3.1.0_11, not 3.1.10_11. I got it mixed up with 2.4.10_11 in my head!

toadfannc

03-17-09, 12:14 PM

Charlotte and Greensboro's web sites both say AMC now. Since the entire state has been getting the same channels on the same day for the past 6 months, I feel like the odds are pretty good that we too will be getting AMC instead of Hallmark.

Hope so. Much rather have AMC HD than Hallmark Movies HD.

dslate69

03-17-09, 03:57 PM

I got an email from Time Warner this morning and they will indeed be offering all the games in HD again this year:

Not to rehash any old discussions or anything, but any word on if the OTA WRAL-HD will remain HD for it's games.
I hated TWC for the little time I had it, but this is the one time of the year that they seem to shine.
WRAL will stir up a hornets nest again this year if their OTA is all SD during the games.

tarheelone

03-17-09, 04:08 PM

Not to rehash any old discussions or anything, but any word on if the OTA WRAL-HD will remain HD for it's games.
I hated TWC for the little time I had it, but this is the one time of the year that they seem to shine.
WRAL will stir up a hornets nest again this year if their OTA is all SD during the games.

I had to look back in the forum to last year to make sure but last year WRAL showed the games in HD OTA on 5.1. They showed a second game in SD on 5.2. My guess would be they will do the same thing again this year.

dslate69

03-17-09, 04:08 PM

I just sent an email to WRAL (programming and general manager) asking\requesting the HD channel stay HD throughout the tournament. We'll see what happens.

dslate69

03-17-09, 04:12 PM

I had to look back in the forum to last year to make sure but last year WRAL showed the games in HD OTA on 5.1. They showed a second game in SD on 5.2. My guess would be they will do the same thing again this year.
Thanks for looking back, that makes me feel a little more at ease.
I couldn't remember myself. I had a vague memory of not being too grumpy until the semi-finals. :mad:
I just wanted to be sure and also make sure WRAL knows that one HD beats 4-5 pixelated SD's any day of the week.

dslate69

03-17-09, 04:23 PM

That was fast.... I got a reply back, straight and to the point.

WRAL: "Yes - it will be in HD OTA.. so Direct should get it"

tarheelone

03-17-09, 04:24 PM

That was fast.... I got a reply back, straight and to the point.

WRAL: "Yes - it will be in HD OTA.. so Direct should get it"

Here is your reply from them last year...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13341664&postcount=9119

StinDaWg

03-17-09, 04:43 PM

ODN is the Java-based cable box software package known as Navigator for people who have any of the Scientific Atlanta or Cisco cable boxes whose model number ends in a C or HDC, or the newer Samsung boxes. ODN 3.1.10_11 is the latest version and is supposed to have more features, fewer bugs, a better color scheme, and more speed. However, some people have experienced problems with certain eSATA drives.

This update has nothing to do with legacy Scientific Atlanta boxes without a C in their model numbers.

EDIT: OOPS! I got the version number wrong. It should be 3.1.0_11, not 3.1.10_11. I got it mixed up with 2.4.10_11 in my head!

Is this the new update that also has the ability to record programs at specific times, set priorities, ect? Any idea when this update will hit? This is the only hope keeping me from getting rid of the cable box and getting a HDHomeRun. The software on my 8240HDC is so slow and buggy it is driving me mad.

StinDaWg

03-17-09, 04:44 PM

Speaking of the HDHomeRun, for those of you who have Time Warner and use QAM, what channels do they provide in the clear? Is it just the locals or do they throw anything else in?

dslate69

03-17-09, 04:48 PM

Here is your reply from them last year...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13341664&postcount=9119

Thanks for keeping me straight.
Goes to show how deep the wounds are that makes me remember the bad over the good a year later. :)

Kevad

03-17-09, 04:56 PM

Speaking of the HDHomeRun, for those of you who have Time Warner and use QAM, what channels do they provide in the clear? Is it just the locals or do they throw anything else in?

Basically just the local channels (NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS, PBS), some shopping channels and news14.

From the 1st post in this thread:
http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/channels.htm

jnv11

03-17-09, 04:58 PM

Is this the new update that also has the ability to record programs at specific times, set priorities, ect? Any idea when this update will hit? This is the only hope keeping me from getting rid of the cable box and getting a HDHomeRun. The software on my 8240HDC is so slow and buggy it is driving me mad.

Afar as I know, it is. However, the Navigator forum is showing stuff about another version being deployed, but they are reporting eSATA issues on that version.

Erik Garci

03-17-09, 05:11 PM

Here is a link to the WRAL sports schedule, including NCAA basketball.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/rs/page/3938592/?view=league

OTA has "WRAL" (5.1, HD) and 5.2.

TWC has 255 (HD), 256, 257, 1051-1054 (HD), and 1061-1064.

StinDaWg

03-17-09, 08:22 PM

Afar as I know, it is. However, the Navigator forum is showing stuff about another version being deployed, but they are reporting eSATA issues on that version.

Since it has been uploaded to the server does that mean they could be delivered any day now or is that just a preliminary procedure that could take months to actually implement?

zim2dive

03-19-09, 09:13 AM

YMMV, but for folks trying to find deals on Uverse, I noticed this thread on slickdeals: http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=487750&t=1250101

ENDContra

03-19-09, 10:33 AM

Anyone found the QAM channels for the alternate NCAA feeds? I found one HD channel at 105.3, but the rest were all SD.

scsiraid

03-19-09, 10:39 AM

Anyone found the QAM channels for the alternate NCAA feeds? I found one HD channel at 105.3, but the rest were all SD.

Check 76.something. 537Mhz.

drewwho

03-19-09, 11:02 AM

Anyone found the QAM channels for the alternate NCAA feeds? I found one HD channel at 105.3, but the rest were all SD.

In Cary, I've got 2 or maybe 3 HD's at: 105.6 76.8 and "0"

0 is a remapped channel, and my TV will tell me the physical channel is 76. But I don't know if it is 76.8, or some other subchannel of 76.

Drew
(re-post, to remove unintended "thumbs down" icon)

Splat!

03-19-09, 12:32 PM

Anyone found the QAM channels for the alternate NCAA feeds? I found one HD channel at 105.3, but the rest were all SD.

In Chapel Hill, 1052 == 105.6, 1053 == 76.7, 1054 == 76.8

psockett

03-19-09, 01:05 PM

Hi all, here you go:

HD's only (I am assuming you don't want the SD info)

Game 1 - OTA 5.1 / TWC 255, 1051, Qam 85.2
Game 2 - TWC 1052, QAM 76.7
Game 3 - TWC 1053, QAM 76.8
GAme 4 - TWC 1054, QAM 105.6

Hope this helps...

Pete

SugarBowl

03-19-09, 01:35 PM

got a letter in the mail today that tuning adapters are available. But you have to order them. Here is the URL
http://www.yourtwc.com/tuningadapter

DanteV

03-21-09, 05:18 AM

So Psockett doesn't think I am crazy; is anyone else experiencing DD dropping out on CBS HD? I noticed last night during basketball. I am receiving HD via directv.

Thanks

scsiraid

03-21-09, 10:34 AM

got a letter in the mail today that tuning adapters are available. But you have to order them. Here is the URL
http://www.yourtwc.com/tuningadapter

They work great! Solid as a rock. I love my TiVo....

drewwho

03-21-09, 10:45 AM

So Psockett doesn't think I am crazy; is anyone else experiencing DD dropping out on CBS HD? I noticed last night during basketball. I am receiving HD via directv.

Thanks

Do the DD drop outs coincide with the WRAL logo being inserted? If so, it is a known problem that at least 2 of us have complained about recently.

Drew

tarheelone

03-21-09, 05:27 PM

Do the DD drop outs coincide with the WRAL logo being inserted? If so, it is a known problem that at least 2 of us have complained about recently.

Drew

Yes it's happening about 3 or 4 seconds before the logo is inserted. Seems to be the same DD dropouts that others have been complaining about on WRAL for a couple of weeks now.

scsiraid

03-21-09, 05:29 PM

Yes it's happening about 3 or 4 seconds before the logo is inserted. Seems to be the same DD dropouts that others have been complaining about on WRAL for a couple of weeks now.

Yes... they are switching from DD5.1 to DD2.0 when they insert the logo. Fortunately, my receiver switches modes fast enough that I dont get much of a dropout... Its about a quarter to half a second.

Scooper

03-21-09, 06:24 PM

Are these dropouts OTA, cable or Satellite ? I can check OTA, but not the others.

scsiraid

03-21-09, 06:47 PM

Are these dropouts OTA, cable or Satellite ? I can check OTA, but not the others.

Im watching the game OTA but have seen them on cable for other CBS shows.

tarheelone

03-21-09, 06:50 PM

Are these dropouts OTA, cable or Satellite ? I can check OTA, but not the others.

Tommy122 emailed WRAL last week and they are aware of the problem and are in the middle of an upgrade that they say should fix it.

HDMe2

03-21-09, 07:40 PM

The WRAL audio problem (dropouts) is something that is happening pre-transmission... so OTA, cable, and satellite should all be affected.

It does, however, manifest in different want. OTA it is just an audio glitch for me... but via Dish satellite it sometimes also is a video glitch as well while the receiver tries to re-sync the video and audio after the audio drop.

PedjaR

03-21-09, 08:09 PM

Charlotte and Greensboro's web sites both say AMC now. Since the entire state has been getting the same channels on the same day for the past 6 months, I feel like the odds are pretty good that we too will be getting AMC instead of Hallmark.

The site got updated, and apparently we are getting both AMC (channel 244) and Hallmark (channel 246).

jamieh1

03-22-09, 04:06 PM

scsiraid

03-22-09, 04:28 PM

I know WRAL is at a lower power until after the conversion, but are any other stations at lower power?
I live in Washington NC and generally get 5, 11, 17, 22, 28, 30, 50 digital at night.
Last few months Ive had problems getting these, I have no problem get WRAY 30.1, I get it full time with signal in the 60% range.
I get 28.1 time to time, but others rarely come thru anymore.

WRAL-DT is not at reduced ERP. They are at full ERP on a side mount antenna with a half circle pattern. Unfortunately, that pattern is aimed westward... away from you. They have taken half their transmitter offline for conversion to channel 48 but the half transmitter power into a half circle results in the same ERP.

WNCN-DT is not at 'maximized' power but they havent reduced power and are at the same level they have been for a long time... it was a licensing issue. The other guys havent reduced power either to my knowledge. WNCN Analog is running at half power having pulled half their transmitter offline to be converted to digital service.

jspENC

03-23-09, 08:29 AM

Thought I'd mention that this morning I'm getting all major stations, except WRAL. WTVD at 60% and WRDC at 83%, WRAZ at 47% WNCN at 35%

StinDaWg

03-23-09, 11:34 AM

Is anyone elses Time Warner Road Runner down? Mine went out at 8 last night and Windows says its a DNS issue. A google search came up with a bunch of hits saying Time Warner has been targeted by hackers and their DNS servers have been going down. Anyone know what the heck is happening?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2206697/posts

zim2dive

03-23-09, 11:47 AM

nitdawg

03-23-09, 11:52 AM

SugarBowl

03-23-09, 11:59 AM

1) TV tuners installed in my various DPs (1x LCD, 2x PDP) appear more robust than my PC TV tuner. I could split the signal throughout my house and have great HD PQ on all my display panels...however, split the feed more than once, my PC tuner can't pick up the signal.
2) Using a drop amplifier (?) did not work with my PC TV tuner, even if the signal was not split...can a powered signal not work with at PC TV tuner card?
3) Maybe this was signal related, but 5.1 in VMC would work great, then if I would watch something on another application and come back it would be the 5.2 feed. When I would go and check the signal strength at that point, during the various refreshes of the SS, it would go from full to null, so again, I think it might be a signal-strength issue.
3) Grabbing the clear QAM worked great on the PC, and for now, $12/month for the signal is not so bad...but I think the quality looked better OTA (am I smoking something on that one?). Is the QAM compressed?
4) Is UNC-TV broadcasting an HD signal yet?
5) How much juice do I need to send OTA to 3 TVs and a PC...time will tell.

So for my first foray into OTA HD, not so bad. Anyone else use OTA around here in conjunction with a PC TV tuner card that could throw in their 2 cents would be great. Once I get a bigger antenna, I will get that puppy working so I can make a complete drop of TW TV service.

Thanks!
NitDawg

3 - I don't think they're compressed.. maybe someone else will know

4 - they used to broadcast the HD channel only in the evenings from like 8pm-11pm.

jnv11

03-23-09, 12:36 PM

Pretty basic OTA question here. I finally gave digital cable (remote charge/DVR charge/etc.) the boot after completing my HTPC. 80% of the shows we would record were all on the broadcast networks, so I'm trying to make a clean break from TWC (although still on RR). I am waiting for my antenna from WRAL, and being impatient I did go and pick up a cheap indoor antenna at the Shack. I was surprised to pull in all the local channels, plus some HD feeds from Greensboro and Winston Salem! I have a WinTV 2250 (Hauppage) tuner in my HTPC and noticed a few things:

1) TV tuners installed in my various DPs (1x LCD, 2x PDP) appear more robust than my PC TV tuner. I could split the signal throughout my house and have great HD PQ on all my display panels...however, split the feed more than once, my PC tuner can't pick up the signal.
2) Using a drop amplifier (?) did not work with my PC TV tuner, even if the signal was not split...can a powered signal not work with at PC TV tuner card?
3) Maybe this was signal related, but 5.1 in VMC would work great, then if I would watch something on another application and come back it would be the 5.2 feed. When I would go and check the signal strength at that point, during the various refreshes of the SS, it would go from full to null, so again, I think it might be a signal-strength issue.
3) Grabbing the clear QAM worked great on the PC, and for now, $12/month for the signal is not so bad...but I think the quality looked better OTA (am I smoking something on that one?). Is the QAM compressed?
4) Is UNC-TV broadcasting an HD signal yet?
5) How much juice do I need to send OTA to 3 TVs and a PC...time will tell.

So for my first foray into OTA HD, not so bad. Anyone else use OTA around here in conjunction with a PC TV tuner card that could throw in their 2 cents would be great. Once I get a bigger antenna, I will get that puppy working so I can make a complete drop of TW TV service.

Thanks!
NitDawg

For all the signal quality issues, your target signal level is 0 dBmV. Try to get as close to 0 dBmV as possible. Signals that are too weak or too strong are unusable. Since dBmV can go positive or negative, 0 does not mean nothing. Negative infinity means no signal strength whatsoever in this scale.

I would need to see a wiring diagram of how your cable is set up before I can answer this question.
I think you went from a weak signal to overblowing your receiver with your drop amplifier. Using a drop amplifier is dangerous unless you know your incoming signal strength because too strong a signal can damage your receiver.
All digital television including our contry's HDTV that you can get except what is coming from a PC or video game console is guaranteed to be compressed. Digital television would be impossible without compression because digital signals waste huge amounts of throughput, but compression technology allows the amount of bits needed to be sent to be reduced so much that it becomes more efficient than analog.
UNC-TV is now constantly broadcasting a digital signal.
As I said above, try to match the 0 dBmV signal strength target. This can go positive or negative, so 0 does not mean nothing here. Zero dBmV is the best possible signal strength because standard receivers are designed with 0 dBmV as their ideal strength.

nitdawg

03-23-09, 01:01 PM

I think you went from a weak signal to overblowing your receiver with your drop amplifier. Using a drop amplifier is dangerous unless you know your incoming signal strength because too strong a signal can damage your receiver.

Great info. I'm assuming I didn't torch my TV tuner card since it appears to be working fine, hopefully.

They do have an application to monitor the digital signal, but all it puts out is an SNR value and error monitor...would this be sufficient to tweak it out a bit? http://hauppage.com/site/support/support_digital_signal_monitor.html

Again, great info!

NitDawg

jnv11

03-23-09, 02:26 PM

Great info. I'm assuming I didn't torch my TV tuner card since it appears to be working fine, hopefully.

They do have an application to monitor the digital signal, but all it puts out is an SNR value and error monitor...would this be sufficient to tweak it out a bit? http://hauppage.com/site/support/support_digital_signal_monitor.html

Again, great info!

NitDawg

That is not good enough. You need something that needs to monitor SNR, errors, and signal strength in dBmV, or you could overload your receiver.

drewwho

03-23-09, 04:26 PM

jamieh1

03-23-09, 05:15 PM

Last night around 11 I was getting all but WRAL.

damicatz

03-24-09, 02:20 AM

It looks like TWC is pushing an ODN update to the HDC boxes. Mine just rebooted and is currently going through the standard pre-update memory check.

EDIT : Looks like TWC just pushed ODN 3 to the Carrboro/Chapel Hill Area.

fmoraes

03-24-09, 10:50 AM

It would be nice if they fixed some of the bugs with CC. I had a reboot yesterday during recording of 24 and Heroes when we tried to turn on CC to see what was said at the end of the How I met your Mother episode.

Francisco

StinDaWg

03-24-09, 12:18 PM

nitdawg

03-24-09, 03:18 PM

#1 Some PC tuners require more signal strength than others, so don't paint them all with the same brush. I'm especially not surprised that your card requires more signal, since it has 2 tuners, and probably has an internal splitter.

It does have an internal splitter...that may have added to some of the issues. When I looked at the signal strength meter, once tuner was all in the green, the other was bottoming out. Definitely need to optimize once I get a real antenna and what ever other gear I may need.

#3 (first one): Sounds like a bug in VMC. Try SageTV
Its fine with the QAM signal, I think it may had to do with WRAL's signal I was getting that night, it was up and down for me, and the problem was channel-specific, so again, I think proper antenna hardware may be the key. I invested in VMC as far as getting my wife to use it in dropping our cable service, so I will tough it out with it for now, but yes, SageTV does look nice.

#3 (second one): If you have RR, you also should get the QAM channels free. They're not compressed, but TWC tends to move the frequencies around. I'd rather have an antenna, and deal with the occasional glitch from a passing plane than to miss 3 days of recordings while I was out of town and TWC decided to fiddle with QAM frequencies.
That would be a PIA...how often does that happen? I will be OTA once my WRAL antenna gets here and I fiddle with that. THANKS!!!!

NitDawg

nitdawg

03-24-09, 03:22 PM

That is not good enough. You need something that needs to monitor SNR, errors, and signal strength in dBmV, or you could overload your receiver.

So would this be something I plug into an antenna feed (hand held monitor) or software-based and I interface the antenna with a PC?

Learning curve here :)

Best,
NitDawg

drewwho

03-24-09, 04:30 PM

Its fine with the QAM signal
<...>
That would be a PIA...how often does that happen? I will be OTA once my WRAL antenna gets here and I fiddle with that. THANKS!!!!

Maybe I didn't understand what you were complaining about wrt to the 5.1 / 5.2 issue. Oh well..

WRT the QAM frequencies moving: It used to never happen for the first few years I had a QAM cable setup (2004 or so). Recently (2008 and on) it has happened nearly every time TWC adds channels.

I switched to OTA only when TWC stopped sending PSIP for ABC and FOX for around 6 months a few years ago. That confused MythTV (which I no longer use) and caused recordings to fial. Basically, they no longer sent the virtual channel information to remap 113.1 to 11.1, and 113.4 to 50.1. I've had good luck with my antenna, so I've never bothered to try to record QAM again. The only time I use it is to watch live sports when there are special extra channels, like there were for the Olympics, and there are for the NCAA tournament.

Drew

jnv11

03-24-09, 04:43 PM

jnv11

03-24-09, 06:27 PM

As I have said before, Obama's hairdo gives many MPEG-2 compressors trouble. The presidential press conference at 8 PM is your next opportunity to grade the picture quality of different stations.

PedjaR

03-25-09, 12:09 AM

ODN 3.1.1_3 arrives.

Pros:

Looks better.
Speedier than ODN 2.4.10_11.
New diagnostic channel at channel 999, but accessing it during a recording aborts the recording.
VOD appears to work during recording.
You can limit recording times to one particular time of the day.

Cons:

Things that require disk access fail when an eSATA drive is present and has fallen asleep.
AXIOM diagnostics are not accessible. This can hamper people who are trying to judge whether there is room to add a splitter or an amplifier.

More Pros:
- Can set series priority
- Can set banner duration (sort/medium/long)
- Can choose to have the box tune to the nearest channel if you enter invalid channel number
More Cons:
- eSATA support is broken, and in a much worse way than just "not working if fell asleep". That type of problem was in 2.4.9_3, and there was an ugly, but functional workaround - just keep recording something 24/7. There is no workaround for 3.1.1_3. This version will destroy all your existing recordings that were on the external drive, with no way to get them back (happened to me and just about everybody else that had the drive connected at teh time of update; the recordings appear to be there but are unplayable. It will not work right again until it is rebooted it with the external drive disconnected. Trying to make external drive recognized again is quite difficult from what I heard, and AFAIK, nobody has managed to get eSATA working reliably, not even with the crazy workarounds. jnv, if you have eSATA working reliably, no matter how ugly the workarounds are, please do post them.
- Some people lose their Dolby Digital setting every time when the DVR is turned off (or TV turned off or switched to another input, this seems to vary). This only happens when DVR is connecting to the TV with HDMI and to the receiver with optical. Does not happen to everybody. For me it happened after every reboot, but not after turning the box or TV off.

jnv11

03-25-09, 12:16 AM

More Pros:
- Can set series priority
- Can set banner duration (sort/medium/long)
- Can choose to have the box tune to the nearest channel if you enter invalid channel number
More Cons:
- eSATA support is broken, and in a much worse way than just "not working if fell asleep". That type of problem was in 2.4.9_3, and there was an ugly, but functional workaround - just keep recording something 24/7. There is no workaround for 3.1.1_3. This version will destroy all your existing recordings that were on the external drive, with no way to get them back (happened to me and just about everybody else that had the drive connected at teh time of update; the recordings appear to be there but are unplayable. It will not work right again until it is rebooted it with the external drive disconnected. Trying to make external drive recognized again is quite difficult from what I heard, and AFAIK, nobody has managed to get eSATA working reliably, not even with the crazy workarounds. jnv, if you have eSATA working reliably, no matter how ugly the workarounds are, please do post them.
- Some people lose their Dolby Digital setting every time when the DVR is turned off (or TV turned off or switched to another input, this seems to vary). This only happens when DVR is connecting to the TV with HDMI and to the receiver with optical. Does not happen to everybody. For me it happened after every reboot, but not after turning the box or TV off.

Actually, I was able to play a few files, but do not know whether or not they were on the eSATA drive or not. I deleted everything before separating the drive to minimize the chance of corruption. I also do not have the time to test workarounds because I am going to move to India temporarily for six months because I was hired by Wipro Technologies, which needs to train me in its headquarters in Bangalore. After that, I will be sent back to the US, but it is anyone's guess where I will go in the States.

jnv11

03-25-09, 08:15 AM

One other possibility as why things worked until my WD My DVR Expander that I bought went asleep is that the drive's manual mentioned DRM that was designed to work with the DRM in a TiVo or Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. Is it possible that the reasons some users' drives had no DRM functionality, so the new ODN software which might have come with a new version of AXIOM and the PowerTV OS were able to check to see if the DRM is working or not, and shut out access to drives that have no DRM.

PedjaR

03-25-09, 09:00 AM

sooke

03-25-09, 09:50 AM

ODN is the Java-based cable box software package known as Navigator for people who have any of the Scientific Atlanta or Cisco cable boxes whose model number ends in a C or HDC, or the newer Samsung boxes. ODN 3.1.10_11 is the latest version and is supposed to have more features, fewer bugs, a better color scheme, and more speed. However, some people have experienced problems with certain eSATA drives.

This update has nothing to do with legacy Scientific Atlanta boxes without a C in their model numbers.

EDIT: OOPS! I got the version number wrong. It should be 3.1.0_11, not 3.1.10_11. I got it mixed up with 2.4.10_11 in my head!

Thanks jnv11. I have a SA 8300HD (no C at the end) so I guess this doesn't effect me.

I've had this box for a couple of years now; does TWC have a newer/better one out now I should ask for?

Sooke

jnv11

03-25-09, 10:22 AM

Thanks jnv11. I have a SA 8300HD (no C at the end) so I guess this doesn't effect me.

I've had this box for a couple of years now; does TWC have a newer/better one out now I should ask for?

Sooke

I do not know. If your box crashes a lot or cannot do closed captioning reliably and you need closed captioning, try an 8300HDC or 8240HDC. If not, keep your box. If you use eSATA, do not get an 8300HDC or 8240HDC because the current version of the software crashes with eSATA.

StinDaWg

03-25-09, 11:47 AM

Yay! I got the new update last night as well. At about 130am my cable box shut off and it said "Cablecard update" so I was like whatever this can't be the big update they've been talking about. After about 20 minutes it finally completed and I was greeted with the new interface. I can finally record shows at specific times and the menu is definitely faster. I might actually think about keeping cable now. :)

I take back what I said earlier. Was watching Letterman last night and I paused it to get something to eat. I came back and the picture was frozen, couldn't fast forward or even turn the power off. I had to unplug the box from the wall and then it took 8 minutes to reboot. 8 minutes! Why is it that a pc can reboot in under a minute but it takes a cable box 8 minutes? Then today, I went to watch a recording on ESPN and it played back but I could not fast forward or rewind, the box would just freeze and then resume play. Looks like it's time to dump cable. If I can't reliably record tv what is the point in having it? I'll look at getting a HDHomeRun and getting rid of the $80 bill.

gstelmack

03-25-09, 12:44 PM

ODN 3.1.1_3 arrives.

Pros:

Speedier than ODN 2.4.10_11.

Not buying this one. Right now it's a bit slower at almost everything. Even worse I'm not sure exactly what it is doing with show descriptions, but if I step through a few channels one at a time in the Guide and then stop on one to view the description, it often shows one of the earlier channels, waits a second, then shows the description for the channel I'm on. These slight delays are annoying.

PedjaR

03-25-09, 08:05 PM

...
- Some people lose their Dolby Digital setting every time when the DVR is turned off (or TV turned off or switched to another input, this seems to vary). This only happens when DVR is connecting to the TV with HDMI and to the receiver with optical. Does not happen to everybody. For me it happened after every reboot, but not after turning the box or TV off.

I take it back - it happened to me with just turning the box and TV off and back on.

PedjaR

03-25-09, 08:25 PM

The site got updated, and apparently we are getting both AMC (channel 244) and Hallmark (channel 246).

The site got updated again, and Hallmark (channel 246) is now gone.

jwsteel

03-26-09, 07:48 AM

Not buying this one. Right now it's a bit slower at almost everything. Even worse I'm not sure exactly what it is doing with show descriptions, but if I step through a few channels one at a time in the Guide and then stop on one to view the description, it often shows one of the earlier channels, waits a second, then shows the description for the channel I'm on. These slight delays are annoying.
I'm getting at least 1 second delays on mine (8300HDC) between key-press on the remote and anything happening on the box (not to mention the whole eSATA issue, which killed many hours of shows)... This is frankly infuriating.

Jeff

jwsteel

03-26-09, 09:55 PM

Just a followup: after disconnecting the eSATA drive, the menu functions seem to have returned to normal speed (maybe a tad faster in some instances). Unfortunately, no joy on getting the drive to work in the meantime.

gstelmack

03-27-09, 11:26 AM

No eSATA in use here.

StinDaWg

03-27-09, 12:23 PM

Slightly off topic, but since there is no local internet threads...

Did Time Warner increase Road Runner speeds recently? I've done tests on speedtest.net and got between 9-11 Mb/s a couple times, but I'm only signed up for the 8 Mb/s service. Either they upped the speed or speedtest.net is giving me false readings.

StinDaWg

03-27-09, 12:29 PM

I didn't see this posted, but on their website it says April 2 we are getting:

You can find these HD channels in your Digital Cable lineup:
AMC HD 244
FX HD 245
Outdoor Channel HD (Sports & Games Tier subscription required) 247
Travel Channel HD 248
Science Channel HD 249
HBO West HD (HBO subscription required) 413
Showtime West HD (Showtime subscription required) 453

Brian_Wh

03-27-09, 09:21 PM

I logged in tonight to see whether I was the only one having some of these problems since the update. I guess not. :(

I have a Fantom Drives 1TB Green Drive eSATA drive attached to mine and have been having the same problems as many of you since the update. It had been working fine for the most part after some initial trial and error in trying to get my box to recognize it after I bought the drive last year. At best this week, my recordings show as if they are there, but are not playable. Along with that, even though the shows are listed, it shows "0% Full".

I'm also experiencing very slow interactivity with the guide, slow channel changes, and after rebooting for the 2nd or 3rd time tonight, I cannot get the guide or info buttons to work at all. I guess I will disconnect the eSATA drive, but I hate the thought of permanently losing most or all of my recordings.

tommy122

03-28-09, 08:21 AM

brboot

03-28-09, 08:58 AM

Same here. Dolby digital gets reset after turning off dvr and turning back on. Extremely annoying. I was going to hook back the esata finally after they broke the release previous to the one that was just replaced...oh well. Maybe it's time to punt cable after putting up with this dvr!

MattNelson

03-29-09, 12:20 PM

I'm also getting around 6.9 Mb/s on my speed test.

cdipierr2

03-29-09, 05:52 PM

HDMe2

03-29-09, 05:58 PM

If you read a little further back in this thread, it is something that has been brought up a few times. WRAL is aware of the issue and is supposed to be working on it, but I don't believe any definitive answer has been posted beyond that.

tommy122

03-30-09, 07:50 AM

I apologize if this has been discussed, but does anyone know the story on why WRAL has 5.1 audio issues? Every time they put up some sort of graphic or scroll, I lose 5.1 (which causes the receiver to take a couple of seconds to switch). Then when they stop the graphic or scroll it goes back.

While this is more an annoyance than anything else, it's annoying to lose 3 or 4 seconds of dialog during shows in order for them to display the "On June 12th..." message (why do they even run these on the HD channels anyway?).

Just curious if anyone knew if it's something they plan to solve?

I sent WRAL a message about this and got a very general answer. Their response said that they were doing some upgrades which "should" fix the problem. I sent them another message about a week later and have not received a response. The audio problems occurs when they insert the TV 5 logo and some crawlers. Seems to me that a very simple fix would be to stop inserting the logo until the issue is fixed. I think that everyone watching TV 5 knows that they are watching TV 5 and don't need this constant reminder anyway.

scsiraid

03-30-09, 08:29 AM

I sent WRAL a message about this and got a very general answer. Their response said that they were doing some upgrades which "should" fix the problem. I sent them another message about a week later and have not received a response. The audio problems occurs when they insert the TV 5 logo and some crawlers. Seems to me that a very simple fix would be to stop inserting the logo until the issue is fixed. I think that everyone watching TV 5 knows that they are watching TV 5 and don't need this constant reminder anyway.

I believe they are required by the FCC to display station ID every x minutes. This seems redundant for digital TV since the station identifier is embedded in the stream... but.. rules are rules...

thess

03-30-09, 11:15 AM

OT:

Well, it's been months since our 'node utilization' problems started in Hope Valley Farms North, and our TWC internet is all but unusable during primetime hours (i.e., when we'd like to bloody well use it). I'm talking 'web browsing is painful', not 'our pr0n doesn't download fast enough'. ;)

The local coordinator has stopped returning our calls, although he did admit to the problem about 2 months ago. Does anyone know if Verizon DSL is available in this area? We're very close to Fayetteville south of MLK.

(Before you admonish me, Verizon's site gives me a different answer every single time I put in our address, and I get widely varying info on our distance to COs depending on where I check. Just curious if anyone knows anecdotally, although I suppose it's unlikely that anyone on this forum would not be using TWC for internet. I'm working up my fortitude to spend an hour on the phone with Mumbai to pose the question.)

If so--thanks.

jspENC

03-30-09, 11:27 AM

I believe they are required by the FCC to display station ID every x minutes. This seems redundant for digital TV since the station identifier is embedded in the stream... but.. rules are rules...

A station is only required to do a legal ID at the top of every hour. They are to display call letters, and city of license. For WRAL it would be

WRAL-TV/DT Raleigh or it could include other cities in their broadcast range, like Durham, and Fayetteville. There is no requirement for inserting the big 5 logo every 15 minutes.

Trip in VA

03-30-09, 10:37 PM

A little bird told me that one could find This on 50-3...

- Trip

easternncnewswat

03-30-09, 11:23 PM

A little bird told me that one could find This on 50-3...

- Trip

Yep. I noticed THIS this morning. So are they moving wx to the Newschannel? Surely they're not going to branch off a 4th sub on RAZ?

tarheelone

03-30-09, 11:40 PM

A little bird told me that one could find This on 50-3...

- Trip

http://www.wral.com/entertainment/story/4844000/

jspENC

03-31-09, 08:21 AM

So WRAZ has both Retro-net, and This? Cool.

VisionOn

03-31-09, 08:41 AM

anyone have any schedule info for This?

Trip in VA

03-31-09, 09:55 AM

http://www.this.tv

- Trip

thess

03-31-09, 10:59 AM

(Update on my OT fight with TWC's node saturation problem--was surprised to see that I was able to get a Verizon DSL self-install kit with no contract, and an automatic dry loop (i.e., they didn't even try to make me get a landline, all handled online). Downside is only rated 3mb, but I rarely get that with TWC/RR now anyway.)

cgreco

03-31-09, 11:20 AM

Scooper

03-31-09, 11:24 AM

Google "USDTV" for an example of a failed company using this idea....

StinDaWg

03-31-09, 11:48 AM

Here is what I'm talking about. Did they add Powerboost to the standard Road Runner plans or something? I'm signed up for the 7 Mbps down/384 Kbps up service but this is what I've been getting lately..

http://www.speedtest.net/result/441483238.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/441512569.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/441513338.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3264/roadrunner.jpg (http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roadrunner.jpg)

Erik Garci

03-31-09, 11:56 AM

Obviously the cable companies would hate this, but is there another reason this is not implemented?
It is technically possible to implement, but maybe someone in charge thinks that it would not be profitable enough.

State fan

03-31-09, 12:20 PM

Apologies if this is the wrong thread. For Raleigh customers, has anyone noticed a significant reduction in PQ since TWC started rolling out additional HD channels? I've noticed a huge change on my projector and am just wondering if it's me or everyone.

Giving serious consideration to DIRECTV because of this. Any reason not to switch?

tommy122

03-31-09, 01:57 PM

Here is what I'm talking about. Did they add Powerboost to the standard Road Runner plans or something? I'm signed up for the 7 Mbps down/384 Kbps up service but this is what I've been getting lately..

Maybe you are just lucky. I don't know how TWC throttles the speed but apparently yours must not be throttled. I just tested my speed again and got 6.91 Mb/s. I have Earthlink through TWC and maybe that's the difference.

drewwho

03-31-09, 02:00 PM

Here is what I'm talking about. Did they add Powerboost to the standard Road Runner plans or something? I'm signed up for the 7 Mbps down/384 Kbps up service but this is what I've been getting lately..

I think you're just lucky. I'm getting 6.x Mb/s as measured both by the same speedtest site you used, and by downloading moderately sized files
(most recently, kernel 2.6.29 from kernel.org).

Drew

drewwho

03-31-09, 02:08 PM

Can anyone explain why the broadcast stations affiliated with major networks do not show other network-related stations on the OTA subchannels?

Because they don't have enough bandwidth to show anything where picture quality is a factor. An OTA transmitter has 19Mb/s of bandwidth. Decent HD seems to take at least 14Mb/s. There's just not enough b/w to squeeze an additional HD subchannel in, and 5Mb/s is pushing it even for SD, especially when the station wants to have their own 24/7 news or weather channel, or useless SD mirror of their HD channel. I think that's why networks like RTN do well on subchannels. "Emergency!" and "Adam-12" always looked horrible, so nobody is going to complain that much from seeing them at slightly-better-than-youtube quality.

Drew

scsiraid

03-31-09, 03:16 PM

State fan

03-31-09, 03:29 PM

No. The new channels are all switched and have decent bitrates. I havent seen any recent changes in PQ. What channels are you referring to?

Anything in HD. An example is text (e.g. scores during a game) that used to be crystal clear are now fuzzy.

I thought it was just me, but my wife (who never notices these things) asked me about it this weekend.

I don't notice it much on a normal sized tv, but it is very noticeable on my 106" screen.

Retspin

03-31-09, 03:36 PM

Maybe you are just lucky. I don't know how TWC throttles the speed but apparently yours must not be throttled. I just tested my speed again and got 6.91 Mb/s. I have Earthlink through TWC and maybe that's the difference.

TWC is subject to what can be called the "Schoolbus Effect", ie peak useage hours. Your speed will vary according to how many people are online at any given time. The more people online, the slower it will get. However you can still notice bursty speeds such as you posted. TWC and any cable carrier is design limited to the amout of bandwidth to each node.

cgreco

03-31-09, 03:39 PM

Because they don't have enough bandwidth to show anything where picture quality is a factor. An OTA transmitter has 19Mb/s of bandwidth. Decent HD seems to take at least 14Mb/s. There's just not enough b/w to squeeze an additional HD subchannel in, and 5Mb/s is pushing it even for SD, especially when the station wants to have their own 24/7 news or weather channel, or useless SD mirror of their HD channel. I think that's why networks like RTN do well on subchannels. "Emergency!" and "Adam-12" always looked horrible, so nobody is going to complain that much from seeing them at slightly-better-than-youtube quality.

Drew

I agree that the resolution of the non-HD subchannels doesn't show so much with older shows. But if the broadcast station is going to bother to send anything at all then why not send something people might want to watch. IMHO, I would rather watch current programming from networks like USA, SciFi, TNT, FS, etc. in non-HD than the cheesy 60's, 70s, and even 80s stuff on RTN and THIS. Two movies on THIS (50.3) this morning were "Ski Party" with Frankie Avalon and "How to Stuff a Wild Bikini" with Annette Funicello. Really? Come on.

As for profitability, couldn't the stations sell local ad time just like TWC does for those networks?

drewwho

03-31-09, 04:25 PM

this morning were "Ski Party" with Frankie Avalon and "How to Stuff a Wild Bikini" with Annette Funicello.

This old stuff is probably almost free, which helps the bottom line.

Drew

tarheelone

03-31-09, 05:42 PM

Can anyone explain why the broadcast stations affiliated with major networks do not show other network-related stations on the OTA subchannels? For instance, why doesn't WRAZ (a FOX affiliated station) show FX or Fox News on 50.2 or 50.3. Same with WNCN (an NBC affiliated station) show USA or SciFi on 17.2 or 17.3. Same with WTVD (an ABC affiliated station) show Disney or ABC Family on 11.2 or 11.3. Don't get me wrong, I like the local weather and variety we're starting to get with RTN on 50.2 and THIS on 50.3, but there is a lot better programming out there.

Obviously the cable companies would hate this, but is there another reason this is not implemented?

It's simple. Those channels make money off of their subscriber deals with the cable companies, satellite, etc. While I know they make money off of the commercials as well, most of it comes from their carriage deals. If they start giving it away for free OTA then they would lose all leverage with the cable and sat companies. Same reason that OTA stations have problems when they start trying to charge large fees to cable companies to carry local stations. You think ABC would ever give away ESPN for free OTA?