I haven't found a setting to change the side bar colors... so it looks like everyone is stuck with gray. As far as the HD quality, to tell you the truth I haven't really been able to notice a difference. I'm watching WRAL news right now and it looks nice and crisp as ever. Maybe someone with better peepers than me will notice but I'd like to think that I have a pretty good eye for this kind of thing. The recorded HD I do notice as ever so slightly degraded in quality but it is *extremely* slight.

Rob

Mine is in and working. I would agree with RobTodd.... PQ is pretty much the same as the Pace box at least on HD. I too would like the grey bars to be black....

I got mine today and I agree that the picture quality is very good. Better than my old 3250HD. I briefly played back a movie I recorded and maybe it's my imagination but I too thought the picture was slightly degraded. Does anyone know if they are recording at the same bit rate as the transmitted program or at some fixed rate?

should be recording the stream right out of the tuner. Not enough processing power to do any real time manipulation and reencoding.

Originally posted by Rob!Todd
DarylL,
Under, settings (More settings)->Output Format it allows you to select 1080i, 480p, etc. But on this particular box you can select multiple formats... and yes, the switching is completely automatic based on the format of the channel.

Rob I got my HD DVR box this afternoon. Unfortunately I don't have that option anywhere in the Quick Settings menu or in the More Settings menu. I looked several times. I think it's because the way they have my box set up. It only outputs 1080i and if I press the # key a bar at the bottom says "TV Type: Standard (4:3)". But I have a widescreen TV. And I have grey bars on 4:3 analog and SD channels and can't stretch them using the # key.

I could not get in the format setting screen to choose formats as discribed in the manual by holding the select button on the box until the message light blinks.

Tomorrow I'll try going into the setup wizard by hold down Guide and Info button on the cable box.

I did record the movie Radio with DD5.1 on Starz fine. Though I only checked the first 10 minutes after if finished recording.

Daryl,

When you press the settings button... at the bottom of the pop up is the yellow triangle that says 'more settings'. Press the yellow triangle on the remote and you will be in the full settings menu.... Going down to the 'aspect ratio' setting you can set 16:9 and how to handle 4:3. The next setting below is output formats where you select all 4 and the 'pass thru' of broadcast mode will occur.

I think the button holding procedure is for the Scientific Atlanta code base and not the Pioneer.

That really is too bad about the gray sidebars. I know it's useful to many, but on my DLP set I like to watch 4:3 without stretching - the gray bars are extremely distracting. Guess I'll keep my DVR for SD and add the 8000HD for high-definition.

scsiraid,

I did do that. There's no aspect ration or format setting of any kind anywhere. I tried going into the setup wizard also but it wouldn't. It's like they set the box to 4:3 and 1080i and locked access to change it. I have:

ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.5.075
OS Version: PowerTV 6.4.10.1sp

DarylL, mine is listed as Echo 1.5.075 as well but the OS Version is 6.4.10.1sp.

Not sure why yours has an old version of the OS on it and I somehow doubt that any CSR would know what you are talking about. It may be time to contact your TWC bud.

Rob

Sorry, I accedently left the .1sp off. Unfortunately my TWC bud has friday's off. :(

For what it is worth I have the same issue with my 3250 box. The option to change output format is just not there on the list (Aspect ratio is there but the format is just set to 1080 without any option to change it)

Originally posted by WildBill
G - Thanks for your response. Yes, with the basic cable (what I have) you can get all the unscrambled digital content. A few pages back someone laid out the (at that time) list of channels. That story changed a few days ago but TWC didn't attempt to lock out this hardware, rather I believe it is just some incompability issues.

I will be interested in your response about reception with your Sony. Another person using a SONY box a few months back didn't have a sound issue with TNT-HD so unfortunately I am beginning to think it is an LG issue. :(

It would of course be a shame if I am forced to upgrade to a nice new HDTV with an integrated tuner. hmmmm.....

The HDTV came this morning. The basic cable works well with the internal QAM tuner. It saw a lot of digital channels that must be scrambled as well as HD channels that it would show-- non scrambled. That list of channels that was posted is fairly accurate. The TV did pick up a lot of channels in certain regions where no signals were coming through. It was like 113.1 through 113.20 (the 113 may be incorrect) which is painful if purely using the up and down channel changer.

I have no idea what kind of decoder it is using internally (other than QAM of course) but it works beautifully. I compared the rabbit ear VHF/UHF combo internal antenna 8-VSB to the QAM and did not see any noticeable differences.

I thought I did see some sparklies on the Olympics but haven't had time to investigate-- no audio issues.

There are digitization issues at times (quite noticeable on the olympics)== is that an HD broadcast signal issue or a TV tuner issue?

Regardless, I'm way excited and very pleased.
Gary --> moving up from 19" 4:3 to 34" 19:6

Originally posted by gdpowell3
The TV did pick up a lot of channels in certain regions where no signals were coming through. It was like 113.1 through 113.20 (the 113 may be incorrect) which is painful if purely using the up and down channel changer.

My Sony 70XBR950 does the same thing.


There are digitization issues at times (quite noticeable on the olympics)== is that an HD broadcast signal issue or a TV tuner issue?


I see them too. I'm not sure if it's a problem with NBC, TWC, or my signal, but I see MPEG artifacts quite often, and every once and a while I get picture breakups. I haven't been able to compare with NBC OTA yet.

I had my HD DVR installed about two hours ago, with the same problem as others, unable to find where to change the format. Also has anyone been able to use the closed captioning, I can't seem to find that either?

Daryl & VB713,
The bad news is:
TWC Tech just left after working trying to install my HD DVR for 2 hrs!! (Could not get into the HD SETUP menu) His supervisor & some senior tech guy also tried to complete the install with NO Success!!

The really bad news is that they thought the box was the problem so they went back to swap boxes and discovered all the ones they had were doing the same thing. So they said they were "discontinuing all DVR installs" until they could figure out why the new boxes were not working correctly.

It sounds like the Raleigh folks have got working boxes...I'm in Fayetteville, VB713 I see you are in Pinehurst, and Daryl I think I remember you living a fairly good distance from the triangle --- I guess the boxes down here are missing one of the updates?

The Really, REALLY bad news is that they took the 8000HD box and left me with my crappy old 3100HD!!

- John

Just got my 8000HD box about two hours ago. I was unaware of the s-video, composite and COAX output not working. I use them because I have my projector connected to the component inputs and have been using the 3100HD s-video for my SD tv. That way I can exercise, etc.. and just have the cheap tv turned on.

I really hope they enable these outputs soon, they are on the box! :-) If not, I guess I might have to split the component output from the 8000HD to goto my projector and SD tv. I really do not want to do that though...

I hear reports of getting a picture through one of the output if you use PIP, but I could not get it to work (even though it would not be a good solution, at least I could get something!)

I would expect that enabling composite/S video and RF out to be very low on their priority list if even on the list. I would imagine that they do not want to enable the HD boxes to be attached to SD TV's. If the were enabled... folks with SD sets would request HD boxes (more expensive to TWC but same price to us) to reap the much higher SD recording capacity the HD box supplies. That might drive TWC to charge more for the HD box which we dont want to happen.

Originally posted by Aggie86

It sounds like the Raleigh folks have got working boxes...I'm in Fayetteville, VB713 I see you are in Pinehurst, and Daryl I think I remember you living a fairly good distance from the triangle --- I guess the boxes down here are missing one of the updates?


Good observation Aggie86. So to summarize so far:

AVSF Member.......Location...........Output Format
---------------------........------------...........---------------------
scsiraid.....................Apex.................Selectable
Rob!Todd................Raleigh.............Selectable
felke001...................Chapel Hill.......1080
vb713.......................Pinehurst..........1080
Aggie86....................Fayetteville......1080
Daryl L......................Pembroke........1080

Five other folks have posted that they will have their install by today. Please let us know if you can change output formats in the setup menu. Mine is scheduled for Wednesday.

Sooke

Anybody noticing a large increase in the number of dropouts occuring since getting the HDDVR? I sure am.... Watching the football game and seeing LOTS of hits.

I'm in Raleigh and my outputs are selectable. There is a setting that allows you to select which outputs your TV supports (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). You can select 1 or more of these on my box. Doing so seems to pass the signal on to the box.

I am curious what other folks in Raleigh have the TV type set to. It looks like if it is set to 4:3 then the box seems to pass the native signal to the TV. However, if I set it to 16:9, then I get sidebars on the SD. My TV is 16:9 BTW. I've only played with it for about 15 minutes total so I'm not certain of the complete behavior.

Also, I did notice a number of dropouts when changing to a new channel. This was readily apparent on HD. I only watched a couple of minutes of HD so I"m not sure if that problem persists on my box.

--Brian

Originally posted by scsiraid
Anybody noticing a large increase in the number of dropouts occuring since getting the HDDVR? I sure am.... Watching the football game and seeing LOTS of hits.

There were a few breakups in the first few minutes of the game coming straight from the CBS feed, but since then there have been no problems. Hopefully this was the cause for your problem and it has been fine since (since Im getting my DVR on Monday and I want it to be problem free :) ).

Originally posted by Aggie86
Daryl & VB713,
The bad news is:
TWC Tech just left after working trying to install my HD DVR for 2 hrs!! (Could not get into the HD SETUP menu) His supervisor & some senior tech guy also tried to complete the install with NO Success!!

The really bad news is that they thought the box was the problem so they went back to swap boxes and discovered all the ones they had were doing the same thing. So they said they were "discontinuing all DVR installs" until they could figure out why the new boxes were not working correctly.

It sounds like the Raleigh folks have got working boxes...I'm in Fayetteville, VB713 I see you are in Pinehurst, and Daryl I think I remember you living a fairly good distance from the triangle --- I guess the boxes down here are missing one of the updates?

The Really, REALLY bad news is that they took the 8000HD box and left me with my crappy old 3100HD!!

- John I missed your post yesterday but thanks Aggie86 for that info. Yes I'm 45 minuts south of Fayetteville in Pembroke. If I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure the Lumberton TWC hub picks their boxes up from the Fayetteville TWC hub. So My box is from the same group as yours. Well atleast they are aware theres a problem. Sorry to hear they took your box, that sux. I can live with this problem until it's corrected. This is my first DVR experience and they ain't gettin mine back. :D

in durham, no problem selecting output res on the 8000HD. Can selectively enable or disable each individual output resolution. Zoom and stretch modes work fine for SD content (not available for HD content, a slight bummer IMHO), including an option to set the default mode. I've left the output res at 1080i only because it takes too long for either the box or my tv or both to switch resolutions and it's just annoying. Box seemed slow at first, but actually got faster after the first few minutes of use. Maybe in the middle of a software update or still configuring itself.

it was sad to retire the replay, but since this is the only HD PVR option easily available to me, that's what it's got to be.

Why retire the replay.... why not use both? That is what I am doing. My Tivo is recording the SD stuff and the 8000HD is doing the HD stuff. Maximum space that way....

And Daryl... Im with you pal... they aint getting mine back!

I am in Raleigh and can set the output resolutions, however, I have a question.

I set the resolution to 480i and 720p, however, none of the stations even analog work at 480i with 720p enabled. All stations get converted to 720p regardless. If I set the box to 480p, the analog stations stay at 480p. I get the same results when I enable 480i and 1080i, etc...

Any idea why?

Is anyone else seeing dropouts OTA on most of the local DT channels? I have a Channel Master 4221 in the attic and it's been working great since I got it. Just the last day or so I'm seeing lots of dropouts. Didn't know if it's my setup or a problem with the broadcasts. (It's possible since they all come from the same set of towers)

Originally posted by Daryl L
I missed your post yesterday but thanks Aggie86 for that info. Yes I'm 45 minuts south of Fayetteville in Pembroke. If I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure the Lumberton TWC hub picks their boxes up from the Fayetteville TWC hub. So My box is from the same group as yours. Well atleast they are aware theres a problem. Sorry to hear they took your box, that sux. I can live with this problem until it's corrected. This is my first DVR experience and they ain't gettin mine back. :D

Yea, no matter whose DVR you have, it is a life changing experience.

Originally posted by scsiraid
Why retire the replay.... why not use both? That is what I am doing. My Tivo is recording the SD stuff and the 8000HD is doing the HD stuff. Maximum space that way....

Well, I'll keep the Replay around at first, but if the HD DVR is good enough, I'd rather have just one device to keep things simple for me (and more importantly friends/family). Plus it can record two things at once, all digital, more space, etc. The Replay will find a good home though, probably with a friend or family member. I'll miss commercial advance the most I think...

Originally posted by Brian Grant

I am curious what other folks in Raleigh have the TV type set to. It looks like if it is set to 4:3 then the box seems to pass the native signal to the TV. However, if I set it to 16:9, then I get sidebars on the SD. My TV is 16:9 BTW. I've only played with it for about 15 minutes total so I'm not certain of the complete behavior.


My box came today. I was able to get rid of gray bars by enabling 480i, 720p, and 1080i, selecting 16:9 and stretch.


Also, I did notice a number of dropouts when changing to a new channel. This was readily apparent on HD. I only watched a couple of minutes of HD so I"m not sure if that problem persists on my box.

I'm having a lot of trouble with breakups, sparkles, pauses, and slowness. My TV's built-in QAM tuner, which is connected to the same four-way cable amplifier as the HD-DVR, has no trouble. DiscoveryHD has always been solid on my TV's tuner, and it's definitly not as good on the DVR.

Hi. Anybody watch the platform diving last night on 217? I guess it's called pixelation but it occured on every dive as they did summersalts--it looks like little squares breaking up. Channel 6, the analog channel doesn't have the problem.

I think there is more diving on tonight if you want to check it out. I'm fairly sure it's not my plasma. As I recall, I think I've only seen it on 217 and never, for example, on 255. Does anyone else have any ideas about this problem?

Can somebody tell me what type of digital audio connector the HD-PVRs have? Optical or Coaxial?


Anybody have a close-up picture of the back panel?

optical.

Ive noticed a lot of recent talk about QAM tuners...has anyone been using these to record and archive HD material? I want to find a good yet not too expensive option for recording HD...apparently the HD DVRs do not support Firewire, so thats not an option. I was looking at HDTV tuner PCI cards that have a QAM tuner, and Im wondering if they work with TWC, and if so, is it for all channels or only some channels? Thanks!

Originally posted by bobjdan
Hi. Anybody watch the platform diving last night on 217? I guess it's called pixelation but it occured on every dive as they did summersalts--it looks like little squares breaking up. Channel 6, the analog channel doesn't have the problem.

I think there is more diving on tonight if you want to check it out. I'm fairly sure it's not my plasma. As I recall, I think I've only seen it on 217 and never, for example, on 255. Does anyone else have any ideas about this problem?

Hi bobjdan,

Yeah I've seen a lot of pixelation on the HD olympics. I'm no expert, but I don't think it is your plasma. I believe it is compression artifacts. Actually, the Olympics in HD on NBC is probably some of the worst HD I've ever seen (as far as pixelation is concerned).

Sooke

Originally posted by kainen1
optical.

Thanks. Looks like I'll be buying one of these...
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F009%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1228

I believe the SA8000HD has both Optical and Coaxial.

In addition, I have tried the RS TOS-Link converter and it works as expected.

Any idea if you can set the "season pass" option on the SA8000HD to keep only 1 episode at a time like TiVo? (automatically replaces it with the new episode). Thanks

Im in Raleigh and had the HD DVR installed yesterday. So far so good, but sad to see my Tivo go. It will find a good home with a family member.

Couple of notes:

1. As others have mentioned, I am able to set the output mode 480, 720 1080 etc.

2. I noticed last night that there were a lot more dropouts, picture freezes etc. on HD with the DVR running (watching olympics). But this morning I watched a few hours of the olympics in HD and nothing strange happened.

3. You can set it up to keep only one episode of a show. All of these functions are buried a bit in the menus and more difficult to use than the Tivo.

Sorry if this is answered elsewhere, but I couldn't find the answer. I find using the IPG to set up recordings on the 8000HD to be very slow and tedious particularly if the program you want to record is a few days from the current day. If you sort by time you seem to have to move in 30 min increments. If the program you are interested in is several days in the future it is very slow to get to it. If you sort by title, it is worse. Because they include every channel getting to the title you want can take forever. My questions are:

1) When sorting by time, is it possible to skip ahead to the day you want and then go by 30 min increments?
2) When sorting by title, is it possible to only include favorite channels?

Thanks,

Originally posted by SKIP2K
I believe the SA8000HD has both Optical and Coaxial.

In addition, I have tried the RS TOS-Link converter and it works as expected.

I was able to get the installation guide from the SA website. Here's a schematic of the back panel showing both optical (label #1 in the picture)and coaxial (labeled #7) digital inputs.

Mikea28 mentioned something about 'missing the commercial advance' on the new HD DVR. Is it not possible to skip forward in ~ 30 second increments like my current Dish 721 SD DVR? I've found that this works quite well in combination with the 8 second 'go back' button so that with a few clicks of the controls I'm able to get through a commercial in a matter of seconds.

Does the TW unit have a similiar feature?

Originally posted by WRoss
Mikea28 mentioned something about 'missing the commercial advance' on the new HD DVR. Is it not possible to skip forward in ~ 30 second increments like my current Dish 721 SD DVR? I've found that this works quite well in combination with the 8 second 'go back' button so that with a few clicks of the controls I'm able to get through a commercial in a matter of seconds.

Does the TW unit have a similiar feature?

No.

Originally posted by mswilson
Originally posted by WRoss
Mikea28 mentioned something about 'missing the commercial advance' on the new HD DVR. Is it not possible to skip forward in ~ 30 second increments like my current Dish 721 SD DVR? I've found that this works quite well in combination with the 8 second 'go back' button so that with a few clicks of the controls I'm able to get through a commercial in a matter of seconds.

Does the TW unit have a similiar feature?
No.

I have noticed that pressing the FF button multiple times does speed up the forwarding. Not as elegant as Replay et al. but better than nothing.

--Brian

Wow - that's bad news about the new HD DVR being unable to jump forward in ~ 30 second increments. For me that's one of the MAJOR advantages of using a recorder (2nd only to time shifting).

I'm really surprized that their machine doesn't have this feature. Both the Dish and Direct HD DVR units can do this.

Very dissappointing.

Originally posted by WRoss
Wow - that's bad news about the new HD DVR being unable to jump forward in ~ 30 second increments. For me that's one of the MAJOR advantages of using a recorder (2nd only to time shifting).

I'm really surprized that their machine doesn't have this feature. Both the Dish and Direct HD DVR units can do this.

Very dissappointing.

The commercial advance I was referring to is the Replay 50xx ability to automatically skip past commercials, with no input from the user. I love it - I just sit down, watch my show when i want, never touch the remote, and never see a commercial. But again, I can deal for HD and all digital recording with two tuners.

however, as far as 30 second skip goes, I was under the impression that the old SA8000 boxes (the SD ones) did have a 30 second skip feature and assumed it would be in the new 8000HD. I haven't had a chance to check that out on my new box yet, but I pray to god it's there. It might be a seperate remote command that's not on the original SA/TWC remote, but don't quote me on that...

Originally posted by mikea28

however, as far as 30 second skip goes, I was under the impression that the old SA8000 boxes (the SD ones) did have a 30 second skip feature and assumed it would be in the new 8000HD. I haven't had a chance to check that out on my new box yet, but I pray to god it's there. It might be a seperate remote command that's not on the original SA/TWC remote, but don't quote me on that...

From the Explorer 8000 forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/explorer_8000/message/5601):


There was a 30-sec skip button on older SA8000 remotes. The JP1 file
is still in the files area that allow you to add the code for this
function to certain universal remotes.

Unfortunately, Scientific Atlanta long ago disabled the 30-second
functionality on their boxes, as the request of cable companies. Even
if you had the older SA8000 remote with the 30sec skip button, or have
programmed this button on your universal remote, it won't do anything.

ugh, i hate SA. Guess that's the kind of issues you have when you don't own the hardware...guess FF/Rew will have to do

anyone else having trouble with the 8000HD remember what mode you want 4:3 content displayed in? (ie stretch, zoom, pillarbox) I like to leave mine on stretch most of the time and set that in the settings menu, but occasionally change it. Sometimes it'll go back to stretch, sometimes to pillarbox...fortunately never to zoom by accident (so far)...

Originally posted by mikea28
ugh, i hate SA. Guess that's the kind of issues you have when you don't own the hardware...guess FF/Rew will have to do


I'm no SA fan, but if you look back at the quote from the forum, you'll see that SA removed it *at the request of the cable companies* So if you're going to hate someone for not having 30 second skip, hate the cable companies. Of course if they don't protect their ad revenue, then your cable bill would be like $150 a month...

Originally posted by gillcup
...My questions are:

1) When sorting by time, is it possible to skip ahead to the day you want and then go by 30 min increments?
2) When sorting by title, is it possible to only include favorite channels?

Thanks,

Hi gillcup,

This is going to be a real longshot. Especially since I don't even have the HD-DVR yet... If you have a universal remote you may be able to find a code for skipping forward or backward by a day. I would check out www.remotecentral.com for codes if you have a universal remote.

Reason I suggest it is that I programmed my MX-700 universal remote for the 3250HD box using codes from the remote manufacturer and they included day+ and day- codes. So basically I could skip forward or back a day in the guide using my universal remote. There was no cooresponding button for this on the remote I got from TWC. Since SA also makes the HD-DVR it is possible it has the same ability.

For what it's worth...

Sooke

Originally posted by sooke
Hi gillcup,

This is going to be a real longshot. Especially since I don't even have the HD-DVR yet... If you have a universal remote you may be able to find a code for skipping forward or backward by a day. I would check out www.remotecentral.com for codes if you have a universal remote.

Reason I suggest it is that I programmed my MX-700 universal remote for the 3250HD box using codes from the remote manufacturer and they included day+ and day- codes.

Sooke

Sooke,

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to look into that. I did figure out an ugly way around this.

1) Sort the guide by "title"
2) Find a program on the day you want to skip to & select that program.
3) Press the "time" button and now you will be reset to the day of the previously selected program.

Not pretty, but it works.

gillcup,

To skip ahead in the guide a day or multiple days:

With the guide open, press 1 and right arrow to skip ahead one day,
3 + right arrow to skip ahead three days.

Ive also noticed on the 8000HD that if you hold the right arrow down for a few seconds it starts scrolling very quickly. If you hold down the button, just watch for the day on the guide to change. Once you get to the day you want let the button go, and begin browsing normally by pressing the button for each 30 minute increment.

I will admit that the "finding the show to record" functionality of the 8000HD is behind even my first generation Tivo.

Originally posted by wjarrettc
Can somebody tell me what type of digital audio connector the HD-PVRs have? Optical or Coaxial?

The SA 8000HD has BOTH sets. I hooked up the coax and its works just fine. Got my unit this past Friday and so far so good. :)

finally got my HD-DVR on friday in Cary. Love it. Save for a couple of niggling problems...

1. I am noticing a TON more pixelization that what I had with the old DVR. Esp. during the olympics. This is occurring on the analog as well as the digital feeds.

2. also on NBC, I am having audio sync problems. Granted watching the olympics like a hong kong karate movie is cool, it's not THAT cool. :) My audio is feeding through the optical output and seems to be working great on all the other stations.

Anyone else noticing these issues?

I got mine on Friday in Raleigh. It took the tech took a while to get it working, and I kept asking him if he should check the signal strength. He said, "No, you're fine...these boxes are junk...etc." Well, he had to come back because it still wouldn't get past the "your digital cable has been disconnected" screen and replace with yet another box. This one seemed ok, but I soon figured out that the digital channels 100+ didn't work even though the HD channels did. Well, a trip to the crawl space revealed a cheap splitter (!%%@!@@#@!# former homeowner), so I purchased one from Lowes ($7.50 for a 4 way with 7.8db at each port) and it worked perfectly. Then, I wasn't getting audio on 100+ and a quick reboot fixed that. BTW, I can set the resolutions (with the enable/disable menu) and the 4x3 output format no problem. I (like others) keep it at 1080i because the change of resolutions takes too long.

Pretty happy with it in general.

Aggie86,

I called my bud (Steve) in the Lumberton TWC office and he contacted the guy (Don) who sets up all the boxes in the Fayetteville area. Steve also had me speak with Don and obviously I wasn't any help other them making him aware Pinehurst had the same problem and the Raleigh area did not. He also said the boxes and software are identical to Raleighs and all come from the same place.

Don feels the problem is occuring when he stages the boxes. He's communicating with Morrisville trying to solve the problem and hopes to hear from them before the end of the workday today. Steve commented it might have something to do with a possible software difference in the headend between Raleigh and Fayetteville hubs causing the problem during staging. He's considering restaging another box to see if it helps and swapping mine out with it. Steve said I'm the only one down here below Fayetteville with a HD DVR. As soon as I hear anything I post immediately. Sorry I didn't have anything possitive at this time.

any news on the ESPN fiasco? i need these football games in hidef!

Spoke with them yesterday, same story, in negotitations

I just got mine today...For some reason the techs order only specified a SD DVR, even though I know I said HD....no matter though, as thankfully he just happened to have an HD DVR in the truck. So far, Ive noticed a LOT of audio dropouts when using digital audio. When I mute my receiver and use the TV speakers, it rarely drops out. This is more prevalent on "live" stuff, but there are times on recorded material where it drops out (these are recorded too, not just random). The video seems a little softer than it did before, but that could be my imagination, but there are a few random breakups. As for the functionality, Im pleased as I wasnt expecting anything new outside of the regular DVR other than ability to record HD. It is slow in changing channels (especially if going from one video format to another), but Im not sure if its any slower than the SD DVR. I will say though, as happy as I am to have it, Im hopeful that there will be upgrades to better equipment available in the near future.

Thanks to uncbydac & Eidolon for the tips regarding the guide. Holding the arrow buttons down works great. I wasn't able to get the [number] + arrow technique to work. Whenever I push a number, it tries to change the channel.

I'm also getting both audio & video drop-outs.

Originally posted by ENDContra
So far, Ive noticed a LOT of audio dropouts when using digital audio. When I mute my receiver and use the TV speakers, it rarely drops out. This is more prevalent on "live" stuff, but there are times on recorded material where it drops out (these are recorded too, not just random).

For folks getting audio drop out, it might be helpful to know a few things:

1- what stereo reciever do you have?
2- what connection (optical or coax)?
3- when are drop outs happening (in middle of show, after channel change, etc)?

I suggest this only because I know when the first group of DTV HDTiVos came out some folks has a problem with the 5.1 dropping during a channel change with certain stereo recievers, and it seemed to be caused by the reciever losing track of the fact that it was being sent a 5.1 signal. Changing the reciever to a different input and then back would fix it.

No guarentees that this is anything similar, but the data can't hurt. ;)

I received my HD DVR today as well. I'm in Apex, and I was able to configure output formats on my box. My install did not go without issue though, as I'm running an RGB setup.

I have a large tv (basically a 34" computer monitor) that only does RGB, and a projector that can do either RGB or component. I have a component -> RGB converter box from scientific atlanta that TWC provided me with when I first received a HD box. The DVR and the converter box did not really get along. 720p is the only format that works (and luckily it works perfectly). 1080i results in a green picture on the tv (but ok on the projector), and 480p results in a pink picture on the TV, and nothing on the projector (it shows an unrecognized signal, but I run 480p from my xbox all the time).

I'm interested in anyone else who is running an RGB setup chiming in. My old HD box had no problem with 1080i going through the converter. For some reason the DVR can't handle it.

At least I'm happily humming along at 720p, though I was wanting to switch between that and 480p since I have a 4:3 tv. Oh well.

Is there any users guide online for these things? I've figured out most of the features, but I'm sure I'm missing some.

Brian

I just got my 8000HD yesterday and live in Raleigh. I made the unwanted switch from direct tv to time warner becuase i wanted a cheaper alternative to HD tivo. Although i do miss some of the Tivo functions and not a big fan of the analog pictures as compared to everything being digital with D*. But i think it will all grow on me. So far it seems to do everything my Tivo did minus the thumbs up/down stuff and the 30 sec skip whihc i never really used anyway so it seems ok. The audio does drop out once and a while I am using the optical would this be less occuring if i were to use the digital coax you think? Also I notice that the setting to strectch 4:3 stuff changes all the time to sidebar. does this happen to anyone else but I would think that it should save my settings and it is annoying having to look at the grey bars or to set it all the time.

Originally posted by corey
Although i do miss some of the Tivo functions and not a big fan of the analog pictures as compared to everything being digital with D*. But i think it will all grow on me. So far it seems to do everything my Tivo did minus the thumbs up/down stuff and the 30 sec skip whihc i never really used anyway so it seems ok.

Got mine today too. Initially I'm excited about the two tuners, HD recording. A little wary of how much it "stutters" when initially changing channels and resolutions. I haven't watched anything yet in Digital sound so I can't comment on the dropouts. I'm going coaxial so I'll let you know how that works for me.

As far as comparing it to my Tivo, from what I can tell so far, "Wishlists" search features are somewhat missing in the TWC-DVR. You can do category searches (for instance, "Soccer"), but you can't search by keyword. Somebody let me know if this is possible.

Also, I haven't yet figured out if there's a manual recording mode (useful if the online guide doesn't match what actually coming on the air). Is it there somewhere?

Finally, does anyone know how to make a "Series Pass" for a re-ocurring PPV event? I have a full season package of the English Premier League soccer that comes on every Saturday and Sunday morning. When I try to setup a series pass on the DVR, it tells me that I need to buy the event rather than setting up the recording.

Editted to add another question...

I'm just watching the first thing I taped in SD and it seems to be coming over in 16x9 with gray bars and a high resolution (not sure if 720p or 1080i). I know this because my TV won't allow me to stretch it. I have all the available resolutions selected on the TW DVR and when watching live, it allows me to stretch the picture because it is coming over in native format.

Also, I just discovered another major difference between TiVo and TW-DVR. On TiVo, there's a little trick I use when picking up a live sporting event in the middle of the show. I press the TiVo button to go to the user menu and then start the program from the beginning so I don't see the current score or game situation. With TW, if you press the LIST button to see your recordings, it may actually show the game live in the preview window in the upper part of the screen (depending upon which tuner is recording it). Does anyone know a way to turn off the preview window in that list?

Thanks!

Originally posted by wjarrettc

I'm just watching the first thing I taped in SD and it seems to be coming over in 16x9 with gray bars and a high resolution (not sure if 720p or 1080i). I know this because my TV won't allow me to stretch it. I have all the available resolutions selected on the TW DVR and when watching live, it allows me to stretch the picture because it is coming over in native format.


The problem is that the DVR will chose 720p for SD instead of 480i. If you enable 480i, 720p, and 1080i, 720p will be used for SD. If you enable 480p, 720p, and 1080i, then 480p will be used for SD. In my setup you can turn stretch on, which makes the DVR fill the full frame. Then you can have the TV put up bars, or stretch, zoom, etc. As far as I can tell, it will only use 480i output over component if no other output mode is selected.

I wish I didn't have to use the internal deinterlacer. May be they'll fix this in an update.

mswilson,

I'm confused by your last post. Are you saying that output res is per channel? Need to go home and play some more though as I just got it today.

Originally posted by bmduncan
I'm confused by your last post. Are you saying that output res is per channel? Need to go home and play some more though as I just got it today.

No. You enable the output formats that your TV supports. The problem here is that 480i will never be used if 720p or 1080i are enabled. 480p has to be used to avoid scaling in the DVR (which probably has a much worse scaler than my TV).

Originally posted by bmduncan
I'm confused by your last post. Are you saying that output res is per channel?

Re-reading your question.... The DVR will switch resolutions per-channel. You enable the resolutions you want to allow the DVR to use. You don't set the resolution per-channel, but the DVR will try to use the "best" resolution given what you turn on in the settings.

Why it thinks that 720p is better than the native 480i for SD, I have no idea.

Just got my 8000HD DVR this afternoon. Consolidated from an 8000 and 3250. Using a 50 Samsung HLN dlp. Some observations and thoughts regarding my experience.


HD Premium tier was not enabled for my 3 mos. trial so he had to call to get that resolved.
Picture looked very close to my 3250 over DVI.
Left output at 1080i to let my Sammy scale. Had problems getting the 4:3 stretch to stick though as Corey had mentioned above. Anyone else having 4:3 issues?
Channel changing was much faster than my old DVR. Seemed almost like a "normal" non DVR box.
No audio dropout over optical but I was mainly bouncing around channels during my brief testing before heading back to work.
Recorded HD sample looked better than anticipated (Discovery HD). Quality degradation not readily apparent but Discovery always has crisp feeds from my experience.


More thoughts to come after I play around some more but it appears to be a keeper.

Originally posted by bmduncan

Recorded HD sample looked better than anticipated (Discovery HD). Quality degradation not readily apparent but Discovery always has crisp feeds from my experience.


You shouldn't see any quality degradation at all. The MPEG stream is recorded directly, so it should look as good (or as bad, in case of bad reception or NBC's HD Olympics coverage) as it does when you watch it live.

Originally posted by mswilson
You shouldn't see any quality degradation at all. The MPEG stream is recorded directly, so it should look as good (or as bad, in case of bad reception or NBC's HD Olympics coverage) as it does when you watch it live.

Ok, thx for the heads up. Good to know. If only the quality of HD didn't vary so much... And yes, the Olympics has looked like crap.

Originally posted by pkscout
For folks getting audio drop out, it might be helpful to know a few things:

1- what stereo reciever do you have?
2- what connection (optical or coax)?
3- when are drop outs happening (in middle of show, after channel change, etc)?

I suggest this only because I know when the first group of DTV HDTiVos came out some folks has a problem with the 5.1 dropping during a channel change with certain stereo recievers, and it seemed to be caused by the reciever losing track of the fact that it was being sent a 5.1 signal. Changing the reciever to a different input and then back would fix it.

No guarentees that this is anything similar, but the data can't hurt. ;)

Thanks pkscout. To answer those three questions, 1. Sony STR-DE675. 2. tried both coax and optical, 3. middle of show, changing channels, etc etc...anytime really. It also doesnt matter if its 5.1 or 2.0. I tried the switching to a different input and back, but that doesnt work, so apparently my problem is a different beast. One TWC tech once told me that the wiring in my apartment complex isnt up to par and that the landlords wouldnt let them come in the rewire it, so maybe Im not getting a strong enough signal and the DVR is making this a bit more obvious? If so, is there any kind of solution outside of moving? :)

Originally posted by ENDContra
Thanks pkscout. To answer those three questions, 1. Sony STR-DE675. 2. tried both coax and optical, 3. middle of show, changing channels, etc etc...anytime really. It also doesnt matter if its 5.1 or 2.0. I tried the switching to a different input and back, but that doesnt work, so apparently my problem is a different beast. One TWC tech once told me that the wiring in my apartment complex isnt up to par and that the landlords wouldnt let them come in the rewire it, so maybe Im not getting a strong enough signal and the DVR is making this a bit more obvious? If so, is there any kind of solution outside of moving? :)

You could try and inline amplifier of some sort, but if you amplify crap, you basically get louder crap. HD is bandwidth intensive, and recording two streams at once even more so. If you have wiring that just barely gets you analog, then there might not be much to do. I suspect TWC is hoping everyone has RG6 cabling rather than RG59 (RG6 is, btw, what DTV recommends for basically all cabling for satellite service).

^ Well the thing is I had no problems with my Pace box...analog was fine, HD was fine...digital SD was sometimes choppy though. Im wondering though if the signal was doable with the regular HD box, but now that I have a DVR with two tuners, the bandwidth is getting spread around resulting in dropouts and breakups.

Originally posted by pkscout
You could try and inline amplifier of some sort, but if you amplify crap, you basically get louder crap. HD is bandwidth intensive, and recording two streams at once even more so. If you have wiring that just barely gets you analog, then there might not be much to do. I suspect TWC is hoping everyone has RG6 cabling rather than RG59 (RG6 is, btw, what DTV recommends for basically all cabling for satellite service).

See I don't know if it is cabling either...I suspect it is the box. Becuase I get drops both with optical and coax pretty much anytime. My house is only a year old and wired completly with RG6. In fact I am using teh same exact cabling that I was using when I had Direct TV hooked up yesterday morning and I have to say the picture on time warner is crap compared to direct TV by alot. Im beginning to wondering if i made the right decision to move to TWC just for the HD. It seams that I gave up alot just to get HD cheaper...mayber there is a reason that Direct TV charges so much for equipment...maybe it just ins't crap.

Originally posted by corey
See I don't know if it is cabling either...I suspect it is the box. Becuase I get drops both with optical and coax pretty much anytime. My house is only a year old and wired completly with RG6. In fact I am using teh same exact cabling that I was using when I had Direct TV hooked up yesterday morning and I have to say the picture on time warner is crap compared to direct TV by alot. Im beginning to wondering if i made the right decision to move to TWC just for the HD. It seams that I gave up alot just to get HD cheaper...mayber there is a reason that Direct TV charges so much for equipment...maybe it just ins't crap.

I dropped TWC and switched to DirecTV when the HDTiVo came out. The HDTiVo is great, you just have to decide if it's $1,000 great. ;) And it really is only cheaper up front. Not that I want to turn this into a TWC v. DTV debate, but just for a cost comparison (without tax):

DTV
Total Choice $40
DVR fee $5
HD Package $11
TOTAL $56/month

TWC
Digipix 1000 $56
DVR fee $7
HD package $7
TOTAL $70/month

This is for one TV only. If you want another TV with DTV you pay $5/TV/month mirroring fee, and if you get a digital reciever for another TV from TWC it's $8/TV/month.

OK I'll admit, you'll never "pay" for $1,000 HDTiVo (well, if you keep it 6 years you will), but all the channels on DTV are digital, where as only those about 100 (I think) are digital with TWC. With the heavy thunderstorms we've had this summer, I have had some problems with rain fade (never more than 30 minutes and, luckily, never when anything was on I actually cared about and, even more luckily, never affecting my OTA HD signals).

Full disclosure. I don't actually subscribe to DTV's HD package as it's pretty weak. It does have ESPN HD, Discovery HD, HDNet, and HDNet Movies. You also get the HD version of any premium movie channel. But I mostly record HD from OTA, and I can get NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox from my antenna. So for me I break even in four and a half years. :D

Originally posted by pkscout
OTA HD signals).

Full disclosure. I don't actually subscribe to DTV's HD package as it's pretty weak. It does have ESPN HD, Discovery HD, HDNet, and HDNet Movies. You also get the HD version of any premium movie channel. But I mostly record HD from OTA, and I can get NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox from my antenna. So for me I break even in four and a half years. :D [/B]

Does this take into account the net present value of money? In other words, what is $1000 in your hand (credit card account) worth today vs. 4.5 years from now.

For someone like me, who likes to stay on the leading edge technology, renting hardware seems to be a better financial situation for me. That said, I must admit that I own 2 TiVos, one of which I paid $800 many moons ago when it was the only PVR in town.

HD Tivo cost for me

$899 with 10% retailer discount
-250 DirecTV credit for buying the HD Tivo
-400 Selling my SAT520 on ebay

=$250

Best $250 I've ever spent, how did I ever live without it. I get the Greensboro and Raleigh station OTA. Now if we can get all of the stations to indicate HD for HD content. I turn on the function of recording recommended HD content, but some of the WRAL and WRAZ HD content isn't indicated as HD, so it misses it.

Originally posted by Greg T
HD Tivo cost for me

$899 with 10% retailer discount
-250 DirecTV credit for buying the HD Tivo
-400 Selling my SAT520 on ebay

=$250

Best $250 I've ever spent, how did I ever live without it. I get the Greensboro and Raleigh station OTA. Now if we can get all of the stations to indicate HD for HD content. I turn on the function of recording recommended HD content, but some of the WRAL and WRAZ HD content isn't indicated as HD, so it misses it.

Greg can you explain how you got the $899/10% discount and the $250 credit?

Ok I admit it i see the error of my ways and went crawling back to direct tv. They offered me some good stuff and I can't watch analog channels. so i figured i will use my direc tv that i used to have and just get a HD box to avoid the 1000 up front. It Is just that now i have 2 boxes instead of one...but hey i get 3 tuners. what kind of anteneas work for OTA in Raleigh...I live in North raleigh near wake forest off of capital. I was looking on the web and noticed that I was only about 15 miles from any given tower. Do i really need to go out and buy a anteane and mount it in the attic and such or can i get away with a simple antena to put indoors by the tv.

Originally posted by ENDContra
^ Well the thing is I had no problems with my Pace box...analog was fine, HD was fine...digital SD was sometimes choppy though. Im wondering though if the signal was doable with the regular HD box, but now that I have a DVR with two tuners, the bandwidth is getting spread around resulting in dropouts and breakups.

Well, I am in the same boat as ENDContra. Got my HD DVR box yesterday morning. Was basically a self-install, the guy was nice enough but had never installed a DVR (HD or otherwise) before. He thanked me and said that he had learned something. Hopefully the next customer got a better trained installer!

My Pace box handled the audio and video better that the SA8000HD so far. I get occasional pixelation on channels where I didn't get it before. The audio dropout is evident even when watching TV without a digital hookup, running the analog outs from the box directly into the TV.

Will wait to see if these problems continue, otherwise will call TWC for a service call and maybe back to the Pace box and SD DVR.

Bob

Originally posted by corey
what kind of anteneas work for OTA in Raleigh...I live in North raleigh near wake forest off of capital. I was looking on the web and noticed that I was only about 15 miles from any given tower. Do i really need to go out and buy a anteane and mount it in the attic and such or can i get away with a simple antena to put indoors by the tv.

I live in Apex and am about 19 miles from the towers. I tried several indoor antennas without much luck and ended up putting a 10 foot monster up in my attic. It was more than worth it to go with the big antenna, I wish I had done that initially.

Originally posted by wjarrettc
Does this take into account the net present value of money? In other words, what is $1000 in your hand (credit card account) worth today vs. 4.5 years from now.

For someone like me, who likes to stay on the leading edge technology, renting hardware seems to be a better financial situation for me. That said, I must admit that I own 2 TiVos, one of which I paid $800 many moons ago when it was the only PVR in town.

Nope, just simple math. I didn't want to take into account inflation or any of that other stuff. Besides over 5 years it would only amount to a few dollars.

Originally posted by keefer37
Greg can you explain how you got the $899/10% discount and the $250 credit?

I'm not Gregg, but I can probably take a stab at it. ;)

The 10% discount could have been a sale of some sort of "all products" in a brick and mortar store sometime. The credit is from DTV customer retention, and lots of existing DTV customers who have been with them a year or two were able to get a credit to their account when the moved to an HD reciever (of any kind, not just the HDTiVo). Note, that is *not* $250 off the HDTiVo, but a $250 credit to your account that is debited with your monthly costs until it runs out. Basically, not having to pay a bill for 5 months or so (depending on the package).

Originally posted by dwalton22
I live in Apex and am about 19 miles from the towers. I tried several indoor antennas without much luck and ended up putting a 10 foot monster up in my attic. It was more than worth it to go with the big antenna, I wish I had done that initially.

I had a Silver Sensor for awhile, but I could only get it to work if I put it in my study (upstairs) against the wall closest to the tower. Thank goodness I have structured wiring so I could get the antenna signal down to the living room. It was very touchy though, and the signal was just OK. I changed out for a Channel Master 4221 on my roof and now get a great set of signals and some stations I didn't get before (mostly the digital home shopping and digital gospel channel - so no new content of interest).

Originally posted by wjarrettc
For someone like me, who likes to stay on the leading edge technology, renting hardware seems to be a better financial situation for me.


This is the main appeal of TWC for me as well, along with not having to deal with an OTA antenna for locals (being in an apartment Im limited as to where I can put one). If I could rent equipment from DirecTV I would definitely consider it, although losing the inHDs and TNTHD wouldnt be good. VOOM does allow one to rent equipment, and they have ESPNHD as well, but they still dont have their DVR available yet, plus they dont have the two HDNets which I would greatly miss.

I think at some point Im going to get a tech to come out and look at it, see if its a problem with my wiring or the specific box I have or what. Id just really hate to have to go back to non-DVR....working at night means theres a lot of stuff that I miss that I need to record somehow and VHS or using **********s just doesnt quite cut it.

Originally posted by corey
Do i really need to go out and buy a anteane and mount it in the attic and such or can i get away with a simple antena to put indoors by the tv.

I live in Durham and we're 30 miles from the major antennas with lots of trees around. I bought the lauded Radio Shack 15-1880 (amplified with UHF and VHF) for $40 and it works fine. I just pointed it in the correct direction according to AntennaWeb. It's very important to point these directional antennas in the right direction.

A UHF-only Zenith Silver Sensor (or the Philips clone) with an amplifier was also an option, but I couldn't find one around Durham. I didn't check at Sears though. Buy.com sells the Silver Sensor and the separate amp for around $40 shipped for both. The 15-1880 is a local buy though, so start there so you can return it.

You don't need a full signal to get a digital HD station so you should try an indoor antenna first before wiring up a monstrosity in the attic or on the roof. Just stay away from the Terk brand. Search here for details on all of these antennas and brands.

Originally posted by pkscout


Full disclosure. I don't actually subscribe to DTV's HD package as it's pretty weak. It does have ESPN HD, Discovery HD, HDNet, and HDNet Movies. You also get the HD version of any premium movie channel.

For a limited time the DirecTV HD package is free to everyone for six months. If you go online you can add it to your account. The lineup is a little light compared to what I had on TWC, but how can you complain about a half year free? :)

Originally posted by keefer37
Greg can you explain how you got the $899/10% discount and the $250 credit?


As pkscout described, I bought my HD Tivo from Ultimate Electronics in Denver. Most retailers like Tweeters will take 10% off of anything. The $250; just called DirecTV and talked retention, and they credited my account.

Originally posted by pkscout
I'm not Gregg, but I can probably take a stab at it. ;)

The 10% discount could have been a sale of some sort of "all products" in a brick and mortar store sometime. The credit is from DTV customer retention, and lots of existing DTV customers who have been with them a year or two were able to get a credit to their account when the moved to an HD reciever (of any kind, not just the HDTiVo). Note, that is *not* $250 off the HDTiVo, but a $250 credit to your account that is debited with your monthly costs until it runs out. Basically, not having to pay a bill for 5 months or so (depending on the package).

Awesome. Thanks for the response. I'm probably not elligible for the $250 credit though since I've had my Samsung HD box for over a year now, right?

Originally posted by Daryl L
Aggie86,

I called my bud (Steve) in the Lumberton TWC office and he contacted the guy (Don) who sets up all the boxes in the Fayetteville area. Steve also had me speak with Don and obviously I wasn't any help other them making him aware Pinehurst had the same problem and the Raleigh area did not. He also said the boxes and software are identical to Raleighs and all come from the same place.

Don feels the problem is occuring when he stages the boxes. He's communicating with Morrisville trying to solve the problem and hopes to hear from them before the end of the workday today. Steve commented it might have something to do with a possible software difference in the headend between Raleigh and Fayetteville hubs causing the problem during staging. He's considering restaging another box to see if it helps and swapping mine out with it. Steve said I'm the only one down here below Fayetteville with a HD DVR. As soon as I hear anything I post immediately. Sorry I didn't have anything possitive at this time.

Thanks for the info Daryl!! I've been out of town for a while, but I called to try and set up another time for installation and I was told they "We are still trouble shooting...we'll call you back". Your info is a lot more useful!!

Guess I gotta stick with DirecTIVO for a little while longer!!
- John

Originally posted by dwalton22
I live in Apex and am about 19 miles from the towers. I tried several indoor antennas without much luck and ended up putting a 10 foot monster up in my attic. It was more than worth it to go with the big antenna, I wish I had done that initially.

Does this work for UNC as well? Which antenna did you use?

Erik (who has a 8000HD, but is starting to think $1000 for something which isn't junk isn't so expensive)

Originally posted by ENDContra
^ Well the thing is I had no problems with my Pace box...analog was fine, HD was fine...digital SD was sometimes choppy though. Im wondering though if the signal was doable with the regular HD box, but now that I have a DVR with two tuners, the bandwidth is getting spread around resulting in dropouts and breakups.

I only see one dB difference between the signal levels on the tuners. I'm not sure how the overall signal strength compares bewteen this box with two tuners and a box with one tuner.
I have 0 dB and -1dB signal strength coming in, with an estimated QAM SNR of 35. These numbers should be fine, but I still get breakups every once and a while, on channels I never get breakups on with my built-in QAM tuner.

I use the NTSC outputs of my cable box to feed other monitors in the
house IN ADDITION to the HD tv set. Now that I have an 8000HD DVR box, I REALLY WISH TWC/Sci Atl/Pioneer...whomever would hurry up and enable them!

I wouldnt hold my breath on that.... I wouldnt be surprised if they DONT enable them since it would allow a user without an HD set to have a very large SD DVR which costs TWC money with no return. I believe this is why TWC is forcing service calls for installation of HDDVR.

Personally.... i would like to see the DVI enabled pronto! ;)

Originally posted by scsiraid
I wouldnt hold my breath on that.... I wouldnt be surprised if they DONT enable them since it would allow a user without an HD set to have a very large SD DVR which costs TWC money with no return. I believe this is why TWC is forcing service calls for installation of HDDVR.

Personally.... i would like to see the DVI enabled pronto! ;)
And selectable pillarbar color
And fix the darn dropouts (vid and aud)

Spoke to TWC last week and the message from the (obviously not very informed) operator was that ESPNHD was not going to be added to the TWC lineup any time soon because TWC had realized that most of ESPNHD's broadcasting was not actually HD (as if all of the other HD channels were 24/7). However, my take away is that ESPNHD will not be showing up on TWC any time soon.

The only consolation is that this was last Tuesday (8/17) and at that point he has absolutely no idea when the HD dvr's would be coming out...

Just got the new 8000HD on Monday. Trying to get confirmation about a few problems listed previously:

1 - we can not change the gray bars to black? (do not want to stretch and they are very distracting)

2 - We can not have signal resolution pass-thru? SD wants to upconvert to 720P which looks awful or I have to watch 720P signals at 1080i which also looks awful.

3 - the configuration of the 8000HD box has been changed significantly from the documentation available on the Scientific Atlanta site?


8000HD DVR Tips:
1 - to jump ahead when viewing a recorded segment press the fast forward button and right navigation button to jump ahead 15 minutes.

2 - to setup a manual record - just press the record button and follow the prompts.

3 - press play twice in succession to move into slow motion.

Originally posted by Jsipe
2 - We can not have signal resolution pass-thru? SD wants to upconvert to 720P which looks awful or I have to watch 720P signals at 1080i which also looks awful.


Select 480p, 720p, and 1080i. The box will output native for everything but 480i, which it will deinterlace and send out at 480p. If you select 480i instead of 480p, youll get 480i deinterlaced and scaled to 720p (somebody was obviously drinking to much when they decided on that).

This completely avoids the scalar in the box (presumably you have a better one or a CRT which doesn't need one). You still get stuck with their deinterlacer, but only for SD. SD from this box looks fine to me with these settings on my 720p native display.

Erik

Originally posted by scsiraid
And selectable pillarbar color
And fix the darn dropouts (vid and aud)

On the Scientific Atlanta website, documents suggest that this functionality has yet to be added on their part.

But a cable company 'conspiracy' to keep the SD outputs offline is a notion that occured to me too!

with directtv or another satellite company, do you have to have a hdtv dish as well as a receiver? i have a couple old dishes for direct. id be willing to buy a hi-def reciever and program a card to recieve some espn hi-def in addition to my twc service..

Somehow the breakups have dropped in number...its only every now and then now...much more bearable. The really weird thing is that now I cant punch in a number. If I punch in 293 or whatever, nothing. I have to use channel up and down or go to the guide and scroll up and down. Really weird.

Originally posted by ewtroan
Does this work for UNC as well? Which antenna did you use?

Erik (who has a 8000HD, but is starting to think $1000 for something which isn't junk isn't so expensive)

UNC is hit or miss b/c I don't have the antenna pointed towards that tower, I have it pointed towards the towers to the east in garner. Most of the time I can pick it up anyway but not 100%.

I'm using the 120 inch version of this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2156

The 160 wouldn't fit in my attic.

NBC lost their HD feed from the truck in Athens shortly after 5:00 PM tjhis afternoon. We switched to our News until they can get the signal back up. Presently New York is uplinking some SD filler, but they are dead in the water with HD for a little while. It will be interesting to see how many spare parts they took over there.
We'll punch up the HD feed as soon as it becomes available.

Originally posted by ENDContra
Somehow the breakups have dropped in number...its only every now and then now...much more bearable. The really weird thing is that now I cant punch in a number. If I punch in 293 or whatever, nothing. I have to use channel up and down or go to the guide and scroll up and down. Really weird.

END...
Glad to "hear" the breakups have diminished (pun intended), haven't checked mine today, will do so in a few. I had the same problem with my box when it was first installed, couldn't get a response when punching in a specific channel number. I unplugged mine for a few minutes, plugged it back in, let it reboot and all was well. You may want to give that a shot. Hope that doesn't reintroduce dropouts.

Bob

I was watching the Olympics Wednesday night and my TWC HD DVR rebooted by itself two times between 9 and 10PM (turned off...you heard the relay click, then said boot, the you saw the passport screens, etc.). Did this happen to anyone else, and/or is this is symptom of something else (low signal level, etc.)

Is there an internal diagnostic that will tell me RF levels that the box sees at different channels? This box is at the end of the longest of all my cable runs from the distribution amp. I occasionaly had problems with movies on demand wth the old SA8250 box, and I'm wondering if this might be the boot problem as well. What would be an acceptable RF level?

Thanks.

Originally posted by dave_ral
I was watching the Olympics Wednesday night and my TWC HD DVR rebooted by itself two times between 9 and 10PM (turned off...you heard the relay click, then said boot, the you saw the passport screens, etc.). did this happen to anyone else, and/or is this is symptom of something else (low signal level, etc.)

Is there an internal diagnostic that will tell me RF levels that the box sees at different channels? this box at the end of all my cable runs from the distribution amp and I occasionaly had problems with movies on demand wth the old SA8250 box.

Thanks.

Mine rebooted itself just a couple of minutes after the technician left and then did it twice more over the course of the first day. I haven't noticed it again, but I've been on the road for a couple of days though my wife hasn't mentioned it.

I had assumed (or perhaps hoped) that is was just getting some software updates/patches or the like and that it was routine. I hope this doesn't become a regular occurence.

Jarrett

Originally posted by ewtroan
Does this work for UNC as well?

His antenna should, in theory, work with UNC's digital broadcast, but it would likely have to be re-aimed to get it. We're pretty lucky here that basically all the HD is coming from the same tower, so you can point your antenna one place to get everything. Everything but WUNC that is. Their tower isn't with the others.

I called TWC Tues. regarding the dropouts and my signal strength was very low. They came out and installed two amplifiers, one at the cable entrance to my house and one at the outlet next to my 8000HD. The results have been mixed. The evening after the installation, I was getting consistent dropouts (video & audio) on all channels. On Wed. I recorded a movie off HBOHD and the 1st hr was perfect (haven't watched the 2nd hr). That's good news as I previously never had a full hr on HBOHD without dropouts. Then a movie I recorded off of Showtime (another channel which always had problems) on Thursday morning and I watched about 15 min last night and there were some dropouts. However I didn't experience any dropouts last night while watching live.

Is everyone calling TWC to let them know these problems exist?

I would imagine 2 amps would make it worse. Doesn't that introduce excessive noise unless you have a really poor signal? Any experts care to chime in?

Originally posted by dave_ral
Is there an internal diagnostic that will tell me RF levels that the box sees at different channels? Turn to the channel you want to check, then turn to 999 and look at the dBmV of either Tuner 1 or Tuner 2. The FDC is your overal incoming signal strength. Between 0 and 12 is good for the FDC.

Originally posted by bmduncan
I would imagine 2 amps would make it worse. Doesn't that introduce excessive noise unless you have a really poor signal? Any experts care to chime in?

I was wondering about that myself. I didn't understand why I needed the 2nd amplifier inside the house. Has anyone had an amplifier installed by TWC and did they do something similar? If anyone understands why two amplifiers are needed, could you give an explanation? Is there any logic regarding where this 2nd amp should be placed?

thanks

Originally posted by gillcup
Has anyone had an amplifier installed by TWC

They installed an amp in my crawlspace where the cable comes in. Seems to work OK on everything that I have hooked up to except for the HD set....but that's the one with the longest cable run....so I don't know if my (very occaisional) HD problems are TWC problems, amp problems, or cable length problems. I'm pretty sure that my problems haven't been made better or worse with the HD DVR.

Seems to be some question about servicing amps...I called them and had a tech come out and look at it. This guy walked in with a bad attitude and when I told him the amp was in the crawl space, he refused to go under there...was calling in to have a contractor come and move all the stuff outside the house. I asked him to just leave then (because TWC had put it in there to begin with) and then he told me that I was being hostile. I was going to call and complain about this guy, but I couldn't find an independent way to call and complain other than the normal call center...which, in my view, is a waste of time. This was really unusual...I've had 3-4 visits from them in the past year and always found people pleasant and accomodating. They didn't always have the skills they needed to have, but never an attitude problem. (I had one guy spend half a day under the house).

One other comment...I had trouble with Road Runner, and the first thing the tech did was take that off the amp and hook it straight to a splitter coming of the street. He said the RR stuff was much more sensitive and that they had been told to be sure and NOT run RR modems thru a distribution amp.

Aggie86,

And anybody else from the Fayetteville area. I just notice that the Aspect Ratio and Output Format options have finally been added to our 8000HD DVR's. Not sure when it was added except it was there earlyyesterday evening. The last cold boot time is when I did it just after midnight and no version numbers have changed. I'll ask them monday what the initial problem was.

Be aware if you choose 480i and 1080i/720p it will stay 1080i/720p if switched to an analog or SD channel. But you can substitute 480i with 480p then it will auto switch for you. Also the formate switching is a tad bit slow.

Originally posted by Daryl L
Turn to the channel you want to check, then turn to 999 and look at the dBmV of either Tuner 1 or Tuner 2. The FDC is your overal incoming signal strength. Between 0 and 12 is good for the FDC.

Thanks for the tip. I checked and my 8000HD shows an FDC of 7 but my 3250HD shows -2!

Originally posted by gillcup
Thanks for the tip. I checked and my 8000HD shows an FDC of 7 but my 3250HD shows -2! I gave the tip, LOL never said it would be accurate. ;) No offence intended. I've noticed variances between boxes also. It's to be expected considering the cable techs use a ~$1500 meter to test for signal strengths that requires calibration occasionally while these cable boxes have cheapo parts to give a signal reading. :)

I have been away on vacation so this is a bit late and others have already confirmed it a few pages back but...


QAM Reception of WRAL-DT is now working fine. (has been evidently since the 18th)

THANKS SO MUCH!!
The engineers at WRAL ROCK (as always)

PBS-HD (90-2) is also back. Whomever did that thanks too.

TNT-HD Audio = :(

psockett - Any hope that whatever is ailing TNT-HD can be fixed too? I know it is not your primary concern but if you could just mention it to whomever you spoke to at TWC for the WRAL DT fix that would be great.
(might not be the same fix I realize)

Also various sources mentioned an issue with the LG tuners and the PSIP info that TWC starting pushing thru. If that is true then should I look for a new tuner? Any idea if the LG 4200A (brand new tuner) will work better?
Any info will help.

Just got my HD-DVR this morning. Haven't played with it yet since the kiddies are watching A Barney DVD.

Couple things though:

It's big. A heck of a lot bigger than the 3250HD it replaced. In fact, I had to put my DVD player on top of it to get them both to fit on the shelf under my TV. (My Samsung HD-931 DVD player is also bigger than a DVD player has right to be). Cable guy seemed to think heat wouldn't be a problem with this arrangement, mumbling something about "they've put a good fan in these". Guess I'll have to see how hot it gets over the next few days.

BTW, cable guy was real nice. No bad attitude or anything. He said he has 19 more HD-DVRs to install today and that it has been like that since they came out a week ago.

Had no problems setting my aspect ratio (widescreen TV, 4:3 material pillared). Haven't played with the output resolution yet. With all the descriptions of how you can set multiple output formats (ie 480p, 720p, and 1080i) on this thing made me realize that this was also possible with the 3250HD box it replaced. Last night I experimented with the 3250 and found you can also enable all those with it too. Seems like when I first got the 3250 only one format at a time was selectable. Feature must have been added with a update at some point. Hopefully this is good news to people sticking with the 3250HD box. Or maybe I'm just the last to know...

Sooke

I had the DVR set to record the Panthers game and the Cup race last night...The Panthers game is all there, but the Cup race randomly stopped at 850. Anyone else had this problem? I had the same thing happen to me a couple of times with the SD DVR last year, so it doesnt sound like an HD specific thing...anyone else experienced this? Its not a storage space issue either, as I have just over 10 hours on there right now.

Originally posted by ENDContra
I had the DVR set to record the Panthers game and the Cup race last night...The Panthers game is all there, but the Cup race randomly stopped at 850. Anyone else had this problem? I had the same thing happen to me a couple of times with the SD DVR last year, so it doesnt sound like an HD specific thing...anyone else experienced this? Its not a storage space issue either, as I have just over 10 hours on there right now.

My wife said the same thing happened to the last 8 minutes of an episode of Law & Order that she was watching.

We also had another phantom reboot today.

Has anyone been having OTA reception issues with WCNC NBC? I've got two antennae's (one pointed towards Greensboro, the other pointed towards Raleigh). I've been getting WCNC just fine, but now I'm getting 'lot's of picture breakups. I'm geting WRAL, WTVD and WRAZ without issue. Actually I've been watching WXII's feed because it's much less pixely (probably because they don't multicast). WXII's feed actually look slightly better than DirecTV's feed. Multi casting ruins HD (especially sports).

Has anyone been having OTA reception issues with WCNC NBC? I've got two antennae's (one pointed towards Greensboro, the other pointed towards Raleigh). I've been getting WCNC just fine, but now I'm getting 'lot's of picture breakups. I'm geting WRAL, WTVD and WRAZ without issue. Actually I've been watching WXII's feed because it's much less pixely (probably because they don't multicast). WXII's feed actually look slightly better than DirecTV's feed. Multi casting ruins HD (especially sports).

I got TimeWarner installed last week and all of the digital channels for the major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS) have a lot of pixellation (big blocks, not motion pixellation) at random times. NBCSD (218) is the worst of them all.

It's not the entire picture, just usually a small sections. It's really annoying.

I tried one of those Scientific Atlanta drop-amps, but it didn't help. So I'm down to the source, the DVR, or possibly something at the street/line.

Has anyone else been seeing these picture problems?

Sal (Raleigh)

Originally posted by supersalo
I got TimeWarner installed last week and all of the digital channels for the major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS) have a lot of pixellation (big blocks, not motion pixellation) at random times. NBCSD (218) is the worst of them all.

It's not the entire picture, just usually a small sections. It's really annoying.

I tried one of those Scientific Atlanta drop-amps, but it didn't help. So I'm down to the source, the DVR, or possibly something at the street/line.

Has anyone else been seeing these picture problems?

Sal (Raleigh)

Sal,

I have been having similar problems particularly with the 8000HD (HD-DVR). In addition to the video breakups, I get audio dropouts. They installed an amp which seems to have improved things but I still have days where I'm getting the problems. I had them come out again and they are going to replace the cable from the street to my house. Supposedly this should improve the signal. I suggest you call TWC and get them to check out your situation.

I've got a dual Regal Splitter (5-1GHz) installed. One of the legs (-3.5db) goes to the cable modem, the other to the PVR.

I tried removing my splitter and running the cable from the street right into the PVR. The blocks then disappeared.

Even with a SA inline amp, the pixellation still occurs when I have the splitter installed. I tried two different ones, too.

What is everyone else using to split their cable for their cable modem/other TV drops, etc?

Sal

Originally posted by supersalo

What is everyone else using to split their cable for their cable modem/other TV drops, etc?

Sal

I use whatever splitter is built into my Samsung HLN467 TV. I run the coax from the wall to the Antenna A In on the TV, then connect the Antenna A Out to the SA8000HD RF input (the DVR then connects back to the TV via component cables).

No blocking or audio dropouts. On rare occasions I've noticed the screen freezes for an instant (on live TV). Didn't happen with the 3250HD I had before. No biggie though.

I do have several splitters installed by the builder of the house sending cable to various other rooms, but no TVs are connected to them.

Sooke

Hi everyone,
Just received my 8000HD on Sat. Started playing with it tonight. Downloaded the instruction manual and set about trying to make sure everything is set up properly. I was watching the cable guy (I pluged it all up) so I know that he didn't setup any options such as widescreen. I also wanted to change the color of the SD "pillars". So far I am stuck. I have tried the "info" and "guide" buttons with the power off but don't get a menu (I don't get anything). Any suggestions?

Called the Fayetteville TWC office today...

I was told they are still not setting appointments for installation of the 8000HD DVR out of the Fayetteville Office!! (Told me to call back in a couple days)

I sure am jealous of all you Raleigh/Durham folks...hopefully they will get their shtuff together down here soon!!!

- John

What's with the HD channels? The only one that the guide is correct on is WRAL-HD.

Both NBC-HD and ABC's HD channel aren't showing what's in the guide.
Instead of the 'Tonight Show', NBCHD was showing a re-run of 'Fear Factor' that
was on tonight.

And ABC's HD channel had a replay Nightline instead of 'Jimmy Kimmel' tonight.

Anyone know what gives?

Anybody know an email address for someone inside TWC that I could send a technical question to?

I am trying to find out what level the SA 8000HD uses for black.... 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE. Looking at the HDNet test pattern strongly leads me to believe it is using 0 IRE which is wrong.... It makes the picture too black.

scsi,

I always thought the 0 vs. 7.5 IRE was a DVI type issue (which isn't enabled I hear). But I'm new to this A/V stuff so... maybe it can also be an issue for component.

Good luck finding out something this technical from TWC. Maybe better luck trying to contact SA directly?

Anyhow, even though I've been absolutely no help to you (sorry), when are those HDNET test patterns? I heard they were on tuesday mornings, but they were not in the guide.

Sooke

I got an email from NBC17. Their HD receiver was switched to the West Coast feed (which is why the programming was off).

Sal

Originally posted by sooke
scsi,

I always thought the 0 vs. 7.5 IRE was a DVI type issue (which isn't enabled I hear). But I'm new to this A/V stuff so... maybe it can also be an issue for component.

Good luck finding out something this technical from TWC. Maybe better luck trying to contact SA directly?

Anyhow, even though I've been absolutely no help to you (sorry), when are those HDNET test patterns? I heard they were on tuesday mornings, but they were not in the guide.

Sooke

They are listed in the weekly email I get from HDNet on their programming schedule. Sign up at www.hd.net

I think they are Tuesday 8am - 8:10am but don't quote me on that.

Originally posted by scsiraid
I am trying to find out what level the SA 8000HD uses for black.... 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE. Looking at the HDNet test pattern strongly leads me to believe it is using 0 IRE which is wrong.... It makes the picture too black.

I think you're right. My picture is too black as well, but I figured it was my tv. I wish there was a gamma adjustment on the box.

Brian

HDNet pattern is Tuesday morning at 8:00am. Lasts 10 mins.

8:00 AM ET
5:00 AM PT HDNet Test Patterns
Wonder how your home theatre is doing? Wish you had test patterns to help set it up? Well, HDNet is here to help. This short program will help you get the most out of your home theatre setup by providing you with the same professional test patterns HDNet uses to set their gear.

Black crush can also affect component as well as DVI. If the set is calibrated for black at 7.5 and DVR presents dark gray (not black) info between 0 and 7.5 IRE then that dark gray info will be invisable ie crushed.

I noticed that if i used the HDnet pattern and set the tv brightness so that you could just see the number in the blackest box..... then switched to the DVD and the DVE DVD... that the brightness of the pluge was WAY too bright. Now HD was ok but DVD was way too bright. Something is obviously wrong.

Originally posted by scsiraid

I noticed that if i used the HDnet pattern and set the tv brightness so that you could just see the number in the blackest box..... then switched to the DVD and the DVE DVD... that the brightness of the pluge was WAY too bright. Now HD was ok but DVD was way too bright. Something is obviously wrong.

That's the exact same problem I had (well, exact oppposite actually) with sharing DVI input for both the 3250HD box (7.5 IRE) and my Samsung HD931 DVD player (0 IRE). Had to adjust brightness depending on source. PITA. Ended up just using component for the 3250HD box.

Thanks for the test pattern info, BTW.

Sooke

Anybody have any info on what is going on with NBC 17? I'm in Greenville and am not receiving their HD channel... I'm receiving SD on 55-1 only. No other subchannels listed. This has just happened. Earlier I was receiving 17-1 and 17-2. Just curious as to what is going on?

Problem just corrected itself... Strange! Thanks anyway everyone.

Actually, since I'm already posting here, anyone have any info on as to whether NBC 17 will be doing the NBC Weather Channel announced at the NAB convention this year. As NBC 17 is an O&O, are they mandated to carry the channel? WITN in Washington, NC is not going to be carrying it as they feel NBC wanted too much money for it. They are testing on 7-2 a basic radar until they can launch a 24/7 News/Weather channel. Again, just curious here as to what NBC 17's plans are?

Ok, yet another weird DVR problem...not major but this thread needs a bump anyhow :)
Today for some reason the DVR quit outputting digital audio. Audio was available only on analog channels, and only if you were watching live. A reboot resolved the problem, but it still leaves me wondering, what caused this in the first place?

Oh, and NBC is again feeding only the SD broadcast of todays Busch Series race...NBC17ENG, is there any chance we will get the widescreen broadcast tomorrow night?

I don't think there was an HD feed for the Busch race.

Let's hope the Cup race has one.

Sal

^ Why not, same location....anytime the Cup and Busch series race have been at the same track on either FOX or TNT, both have been widescreen. Check the HDTV programming forum, it was in widescreen in a lot of places.

Hey, don't ask me. Ask NBC why not.

I checked the TimeWarner guide, HDTVGalaxy.com and TitanTV.com.

None of those 3 list tomorrow's race in HD. :-(

I just got a new Sony TV today that has a built-in ATSC and QAM tuner. I only have basic cable at the moment, but I can receive WRAL and UNC digital channels.

But shouldn't I be able to see the rest of the local, digital stations as well? Just wondering if I've configured something incorrectly or if TWC forces me to buy a better package than basic cable for the HD channels. I'm trying to avoid renting their cable box if at all possible.

On that topic, anyone using CableCARD from TWC? Any cheaper than a cable box?

Thanks,
Sam

^^ Its not HD, its widescreen 480p (upconverted to 1080i). All of the FOX races were not indicated as HD either (TNT lists everything as HD, hence why their stuff shows up this way).

Does anyone here use a PC QAM tuner? Im looking at the FusionHDTV 3 Gold (http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/fusion3qt.asp) that some mentioned in a thread in the HD recorders forum. Im wondering if anyone has used this or a similar card with TWC, and if so, what they were able to pick up with it, etc.

I don't know what NBC is using (480 upconverted or what), but TNT's
presentation of the race in Bristol looked damn good. It might have
been native 1080i (it looked just like WRAL's programming).

Sal

So whre is the 16:9 feed? NBC strikes again?

Well... it went 16:9 for a while... but its now back to 4:3. Can we move the rest of the NASCAR season to TNT or back to Fox??? This is nuts... Why is this so hard for NBC to get right?

Sam,
You should receive abc, cbs, nbc, fox and disc. HD. Read back thru this post about 7-8 pages and you will see more discussion. Others with built-in Sony QAM receivers report great reception. (even with basic cable like I have)

Bill

Although I realize from reading message boards all over about HDTV that Sinclair is a dirty word, does anybody here have any idea or have you read about any plans they have to increase their output on their digital stations? I live out in Greenville, NC and while I realize I am pretty far out, I can receive all stations broadcasting from the RDU market with an indoor antenna. I am particulary interested as this market does not have a WB affiliate; except for cable only, which in my opinion, doesn't really count. Likewise, our UPN is bundled with our ABC, which can be precarious itself to receive. Just looking for any info anybody might have; I'd rather watch RDU since I get strong stable signals from the other stations in your market. Thanks for any info in advance!

Originally posted by WildBill
Sam,
You should receive abc, cbs, nbc, fox and disc. HD. Read back thru this post about 7-8 pages and you will see more discussion. Others with built-in Sony QAM receivers report great reception. (even with basic cable like I have)


Shoot - I cant get it to work beyond WRAL, UNC-TV and TNT. The rest won't tune in.

I've got the cable line coming into the "Cable" RF input. Sound right?

Thanks,
Sam

Is it me, or are all the audio dropouts/pixelization issues/unsynced pictures with sounds (lips don't match the words) on Raleigh TWC getting dramatically worse in the past week or so...both on HD and non HD channels?

dave_ral, they do seem to be getting much worse lately.

I have a simple question... When aiming a directional UHF antenna, like the ChannelMaster 4221, does it matter if the bowties are in front or behind wire mesh? The picture on the ChannelMaster website appears to show them behind, but then again I don't know which way the antenna in the picture is aimed.

Bowties go in front.

Originally posted by Rob!Todd
dave_ral, they do seem to be getting much worse lately.

I never had any such A/V glitch problems with the 3250HD box. It was always rock solid. As I use the HD-DVR I am noticing such problems more and more. I haven't kept a log or anything, but it is starting to seem as if the audio dropouts and video glitches happen most often (for me) when recording a show while watching another live HD channel. It is almost like the box doesn't have the throughput to do this reliably. Or like some shared resource (like a bus) isn't freed up as quickly as it needs to be. If I switch to an SD channel I notice less (or no) problems.

Anyone else had similar observations?

Since both my previous HD boxes (SA3100HD and SA3250HD) never had a problem I do not expect this is a signal strength issue. Especially with others complaining only after getting the HD-DVR. Hope this can be improved via firmware... Hate to give up the DVR ability, but it can be really annoying.

Sooke

I was wondering why the title of this thread is no longer "Official Triangle NC thread -Raleigh/Durham/Cary...etc"

There is an explanation...

New Thread Title Format - PLEASE READ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=443315)

Originally posted by sooke
I haven't kept a log or anything, but it is starting to seem as if the audio dropouts and video glitches happen most often (for me) when recording a show while watching another live HD channel. It is almost like the box doesn't have the throughput to do this reliably. Or like some shared resource (like a bus) isn't freed up as quickly as it needs to be. If I switch to an SD channel I notice less (or no) problems.

Anyone else had similar observations?


I have not done a scientific study, but I believe I also have the problem most when watching live TV, specifically when recording another channel.

I have certainly noticed less problems when watching recorded HD content than live.

I had a similar conclusion that there was a resource issue.

I am also having a lot of problems with freezing and pixelization both on saved programs and on live tv. I have not kept a log, but a show I recorded the other evening was almost unwatchable because it paused every 30 seconds or so (or the sound dropped out). I hope these are just new technology kinks that are going to be worked out through a firmware upgrade.

So far it has been annoying, but when it happens during a football game, it will become unacceptable. Having an HD DVR is nice, but if this continues, I'll just go back to my SD Tivo, which always worked like a champ.

Anyone know if TWC monitors this forum?

Sam, sounds OK to me but...
Sorry I don't know what might be the issue with your Sony built-in QAM receiver. I sent you a PM of another member in the area with a Sony TV with built in QAM. They would be a better person to ask.

My SA8000 DVR is currently recording L&O: SVU on cable 217. The colors are shifting and flickering. They go from looking somewhat normal to extremely quantized. There's very significant banding on facial tones and around light fixtures. The commercials looked fine, so I'm thinking that it's coming from the national feed.

On the SA8000HD DVR box I got a ResApp upgrade lastnight from PASSPORT Echo 1.5.075 to PASSPORT Echo 1.5.151. Only difference I see so far is before the upgrade, choosing both 480i and 1080i as the output format switched formats automatically between 480p(not 480i as it should) and 1080i. Now choosing both 480i and 1080i as the output formats does nothing. All channels display at 1080i only.

Is there anywhere on the web to find release notes on the Passport software? Would be interesting to see what they are fixing.

Originally posted by Daryl L
Now choosing both 480i and 1080i as the output formats does nothing. All channels display at 1080i only.

This is the behavior that my 8000HD in Raleigh has exhibited since I got it.

Originally posted by WildBill
Sam, sounds OK to me but...
Sorry I don't know what might be the issue with your Sony built-in QAM receiver. I sent you a PM of another member in the area with a Sony TV with built in QAM. They would be a better person to ask.

Thanks for the lead - I'll get in touch soon.

I called TWC yesterday and they insisted I have a STB to receive HD channels. I asked about a CableCARD and was told they didn't have them; that I was supposed to buy that at the store - but they weren't supporting them anyways - I needed a STB. Their web page states they support CableCARDs and that they're available from TWC.

So... since I didn't know where in the path my problem was, I opted for an STB since that would put a technician in my house who had to make it work. Indeed, the STB didn't work and it was due to a trap or filter at the curb. After the technician removed it, I was able to tune in the HD channels using the TV's built-in tuner - but that's with the equivalent of a standard cable package.

Only other problem is I noticed a lot of pixelation here and there, but I'm assuming that's a pervasive problem in the cable system. I'll watch it over the next few days and get on the phone with TWC if it continues.

Speaking of local HD channels, is there any legislation that requires TWC to offer those as part of basic cable? I don't know how to argue my position of wanting local HD channels @ $13.50/month using my built-in tuner. They insist on $50+ packages just to receive the HD locals.

Sam

I notice another added feature to my SA8000HD DVR today that I could not do before today. With the PASSPORT Echo 1.5.075 version, when wathing a recording I could not get a recording to play in slow motion by pressing the play button twice. I tried several times but it did nothing.

Today with the new PASSPORT Echo 1.5.151 version upgrade I tried again and I can now press the play button twice and it goes into slow motion.

Originally posted by smchan
Thanks for the lead - I'll get in touch soon.

I called TWC yesterday and they insisted I have a STB to receive HD channels. I asked about a CableCARD and was told they didn't have them; that I was supposed to buy that at the store - but they weren't supporting them anyways - I needed a STB. Their web page states they support CableCARDs and that they're available from TWC.

So... since I didn't know where in the path my problem was, I opted for an STB since that would put a technician in my house who had to make it work. Indeed, the STB didn't work and it was due to a trap or filter at the curb. After the technician removed it, I was able to tune in the HD channels using the TV's built-in tuner - but that's with the equivalent of a standard cable package.

Only other problem is I noticed a lot of pixelation here and there, but I'm assuming that's a pervasive problem in the cable system. I'll watch it over the next few days and get on the phone with TWC if it continues.

Speaking of local HD channels, is there any legislation that requires TWC to offer those as part of basic cable? I don't know how to argue my position of wanting local HD channels @ $13.50/month using my built-in tuner. They insist on $50+ packages just to receive the HD locals.

Sam

For channels, see POST #1098, page 55 of this forum. My Sony KD-34XS955 has built in NTSC, 8-VSB, and QAM (64 and 256 as determined by watching it search on the diagnostics menu).

I have basic cable from TWC and I see most of the channels but a lot get remapped to the sub channels-- ie. 90.4 --> 4.3. Only TNT and Discovery HD stay up at 84.3 and 93.1. The main channels I receive that are digital/HD are
4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 UNC/PBS with note of 4.2 the 1080i and 4.3 the UNC-Kids

5.1 and 5.2 for CBS HD and digital
11.1, 11.2 for ABC HD and digital
17.1 and 17.2 for NBC HD and digital
50.1 for FOX HD

I hit the auto tune and it took 40 minutes or so and found tons of digital channels. I presume it found the scrambled ones but would not/could not show them--- but counted them nonetheless.

I have a trap across the street on my line-- it makes USA 25 a little fuzzy and 26 TNT quite fuzzy. I'm pleased that TNT-HD comes in since it really shows the contrast between HD and fuzzy SD.

However, my wife and I have noticed that the Sony picture looks better on regular SD than on 480i digital channels. Must be the comb filters or other cool features of the TV.

Thanks,
Gary

Originally posted by gdpowell3
For channels, see POST #1098, page 55 of this forum. My Sony KD-34XS955 has built in NTSC, 8-VSB, and QAM (64 and 256 as determined by watching it search on the diagnostics menu).

Gary, That's exactly the set I have. IMO, 480i signals look better coming straight into the set as opposed to coming through the box - so I'm particularly interested in dumping the STB before I get too used to the DVR. :)

Sam

new QAM issues ...

Ok, a few new things are going on with my LG 3510

84-3 - TNT audio is now working!! YES!

BUT

PBS is missing - no signal from anything in the 90's. I've rescanned and haven't found it anywhere else.

FOX/ABC - which "share" ch 113 - the subchannels are switching around. For example, I was watching 113-1 (ABC-HD) and all of a sudden the video switched to the WRAL weather channel (normally 113-6). But the channel stayed at 113-1. When I change the channel and change back, it goes back to normal. But several minutes later, the weather channel comes back!

How are you guys getting the channels remapped to their OTA numbers? Mine are still the "old numbers". I'm hoping this will fix some of my problems. Right now, I'm scanning for "CADTV" type "STD"

Is NBC-HD (17.1) working for anyone tonight? Mine hasn't worked for a couple days now.

Thanks,
Sam

I am getting a very unstable HD signal from NBC 17 (17.1). I'm using a Channel Master Antenna with rotator and pre-amp, and cannot lock a good, steady signal here in Raleigh. NBC 17 is the weak link among the 3 local affiliates. HD from local ABC and CBS are fine.

If you are having similar problems please write to Russell Mizelle at the stations Engineering Department: Russell.Mizelle@nbcuni.com or you can email other station departments here (http://www.nbc17.com/contact/index.html).

Originally posted by deArgila
new QAM issues ...

How are you guys getting the channels remapped to their OTA numbers? Mine are still the "old numbers". I'm hoping this will fix some of my problems. Right now, I'm scanning for "CADTV" type "STD"

See my post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4160648#post4160648)

Here in Greenville, NC, I have been receiving a strong constant signal from WNCN all night (Thursday); this is typically the case. I usually receive their signal more constantly than my local affiliate (WITN) in Washington, NC.

I've actually been receiving WLFL as well, which is rather unusal. NBC 17, I always get; WLFL I usually cannot receive until later in the evening. Interestingly regarding WLFL, I am receiving their HD channel, but not the SD subchannel. Not quite sure what that means.

I have heard recently that Sinclair is trying to get all of their stations up at full power by next summer at the latest. Not sure if this is what is going on. I usually cannot receive WRDC, but am receiving a fluctuating signal from them tonight. Just a fyi.

I had a few glitches during Joey last night as well. Heck, I was just thankfull that someone programmed things right so that Joey was in HD (even if the PQ was not all that great IMO).

In the Any ESPN-HD movement on TWC?? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=416911&perpage=20&pagenumber=8) thread, a higher up with TWC said the deal is DONE! He says it will appear anytime between tonight and the next 30 days, and a few people with TWC in other areas say they are getting it already! I just hope we get it closer to "tonight" than "30 days", as this is one of the first weekends Ive had off in a long time and Id love to enjoy some HD college football!!

Forget everything I just said, it is showing up, channel 290!! Reboot your box if you have to...I cant believe this is really happening!

ESPN HD just appeared on Time Warner Cable NC in Cary! I scanned through the HD channels a few hours ago and it wasn't there - just flipping through again and bingo!

Unfortunately the Yankees/Orioles game is only SD, but I'm psyched to have another HD channel!

Enjoy!

Good news on another front. When TWC added the new digital content (ESPN) the audio for TNT-HD now comes in loud and clear. YAHOO!.
I don't have ESPN of course as that is only available to the folks who have subscribed to the special HD digital content but what I have I am glad for.
THANKS TWC-NC!

It's on!!! This is awesome! The best way to start a weekend -- ESPN HD on TWC-NC!

Just noticed ESPN HD on TWC and raced to the computer to be the first to let everyone know. Or rather... the 5th to let everyone know.

Oh well.

So, question: Why can we watch the NY vs. Baltimore baseball game on ESPN-HD but INHD blacks out all Oriole games in our area?

Sooke

Originally posted by sooke
Just noticed ESPN HD on TWC and raced to the computer to be the first to let everyone know. Or rather... the 5th to let everyone know.

Oh well.

So, question: Why can we watch the NY vs. Baltimore baseball game on ESPN-HD but INHD blacks out all Oriole games in our area?

Sooke


Doesn't ESPN's deal give them national rights on certain nights/games whereas INHD is carrying the regional sports network feed and has to black it out because of the overlap with the regional network?

^ Well I dont know how it works exactly, but when the baseball game went over, ESPNHD stuck with it while ESPN was on the Boise State-Oregon State game. So my guess is that the game was blacked out on both ESPN and inHD in favor of the FOX Sports Net coverage, but ESPNHD coverage wasnt blacked out (which is a good sign for when there is an ACC basketball game on both Raycom and ESPNHD).

For anyone with a QAM tuner, Im wondering if this channel is encrypted or not? Im guessing it is but hoping its not, as then I would definitely be purchasing a QAM tuner card for my PC so I could record some HD sports, particularly Florida State at NC State November 11 :).

Thumbs up to Time Warner Cable!!! This is the best news one could receive on a reflective day (9/11).

Now we can see what the fuse is (or not) all about. Can't wait for UGA vs. South Carolina tonight on ESPN HD!

I had faith in TWC -- and they pulled through. I bet tons of folks are kicking themselves by leaving TWC! First the awesome launch of the HD DVR and now ESPN HD -- it doesn't get much better than that in a month span!

ENDContra-
It's encrypted- my neighbor has a QAM tuner.

Not sure if you guys know -- but if you don't have HD Suite you can add it free for a month (or if you got it w/ the HD DVR you have a couple free months to go like me!). Go to TWC's website - www.twcnc.com or call them.

I just noticed that the standard non-digital channel audio is now coming through the optical port. Anyone else notice this?

It looks like WRAZ-DT 50.1(49.1) has the fox splicer online today and my receiver says it's DD5.1

Also a question about ESPN-HD. Is the current UNLV vs. WIS games audio broadcasted in Circle Surround? Because if it is in CS I don't understand ppl's complaint of espn using CS instead of DPL (since espn isn't using dd5.1) because it sounds great using DPL2x to decode it.

WRAZ is now back to the local upconvert with dd2.0 audio for Coach.

Just got home and had a message from TWC calling me to say that ESPN-HD is on 290. Cool that they are calling....

Of course I already knew, thanks to the fine folks here.

Yep, I got an automated phone call also with the big news. :)

If ANYONE would be willing to record the Arkansas vs. Texas game this evening on ESPN-HD, I will gladly pay for DVDRs, shipping, and some extra blank DVDRs for you trouble (assuming Arkansas wins ;-) ).

Xesdeeni

is ESPN HD only on HD suite? That's the impression i get from twcnc.com. I'm not at home to check right now...

ok found the answer to my own question, yet is is HD Suite only....those bastards! leave it to TWC to pull something like that...ugh, well i guess my cable bill is about to go up another $7/mo...

this just reaffirms the fact that i love TWC's service, but i hate their business practices

Whoopdee do. ESPN HD. I turn on the Canadian Open golf tournament and what do I get? 4:3 with fancy sidebars. If you want to call something an HD channedl it should be HD 16:9 fullscreen. Reminds me of NBC HD golf tournatments.

They cant do EVERYTHING in HD...they could stretch it, but who wants to see a bunch of fat guys play golf? Besides, their SD looks 10 times better than any other SD broadcasts.

Originally posted by Xesdeeni
If ANYONE would be willing to record the Arkansas vs. Texas game this evening on ESPN-HD, I will gladly pay for DVDRs, shipping, and some extra blank DVDRs for you trouble (assuming Arkansas wins ;-) ).


And if anyone does this for him please fill me in on what method you are using to record the game and burn to DVD :).

What is with ABC's SD channel?? The guide is always wrong. It says 'College Football' right now, but it's showing a Kerry Campaign stop.

Sal

^ Its ABC News Now...ABC network is multicasting a 24 hour news channel on their O&Os subchannels. I guess no one has bothered to enter information for ABCNN, so it just mirrors the analog SD listings.

The DVR got me again last night. I recorded the NASCAR race on TNT from 730 to midnight...it recorded the whole time as the red light was on and I always had it either up or in the PIP. Then after it finished recording, the DVR shows it as 730-802!! and that half hour is all I have. I think I saw only one other person mention having a similar problem, so is this a freak thing or a bug in the software? Any chance of a software update in the near future?

I surfed to channel 999 & got some diagnostic info.

My QAM levels for Tuner 1 & 2 were -13dbmV and -15dbmV.
I added the Scientific Atlanta amp and they improved to
5dbmV and 1dbmV for the same channels (Ch. 250 & 255)

Anyone know what the level should be?

My QAM BER (I assume 'Bit Error Rate') on those same channels
was about .0000015 and .000000038 when I was looking at it.

Sal

ENDContra

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ENDContra
[B]They cant do EVERYTHING in HD...they could stretch it, but who wants to see a bunch of fat guys play golf? Besides, their SD looks 10 times better than any other SD broadcasts.

I don't know what kind of shape you're in or the last time you watched men's PGA golf, but 95% of them are in better shape than the general public. And I don't care how good SD is if you look at women's golf in fullscreen they all have a wide butt (although some of them really do!).

As far as I'm concerned, if it's not HD and it's on an SD channel, why bother duplicating it on a so called HD channel. HD is 16:9 fullscreen. Ididn't spend all that money on a plasma or the extra money for the HD suite to watch 4:3 on an HD channel.

Bob... I think the 'fat guy' comment was relative to what they look like stretched from 4x3 to 16x9...

Originally posted by supersalo
I surfed to channel 999 & got some diagnostic info.

My QAM levels for Tuner 1 & 2 were -13dbmV and -15dbmV.
I added the Scientific Atlanta amp and they improved to
5dbmV and 1dbmV for the same channels (Ch. 250 & 255)

Anyone know what the level should be?

My QAM BER (I assume 'Bit Error Rate') on those same channels
was about .0000015 and .000000038 when I was looking at it.

Sal

Those were some pretty low levels.... Mine are:

Tuner 1 723.000 Mhz 2 dBmV
Tuner 2 717.000 Mhz 1 dBmV
SNR 36 BER 0
SNR 35 BER 0

Yeah, my fat guy comment was in regards to stretch-o-vision and why Id rather have 4:3 material sidebarred. As far as SD content duplicated on an HD channel, outside of HDNet and Discovery and a few others, most HD channels that we get do this. Unfortunately, the HD audience isnt big enough for ESPN to justify finding alternative programming for those blocks of SD broadcasts...I know Id rather have a better looking SD broadcast than reruns of Playmakers. :)

Since ESPN is an analog channel on TWC, even if you get SD content on ESPN-HD during the day when they're not showing live sports, I'd rather have it delivered digitally.

Two unrelated questions:

1) The second NFL game on FOX yesterday didn't have the WRAZ bug in the corner. Does that mean the splicer wasn't being used? It looked like EDTV to me.

2) Is there a way to tell how much disk capacity has been used or is left on the DVR?

BTW, I thought the Broncos vs. Chiefs game looked _great_ on ESPNHD last night. Although... I fell asleep with about 5 minutes to go and don't know who won.

Thanks,

Sooke

Originally posted by sooke


2) Is there a way to tell how much disk capacity has been used or is left on the DVR?

Sooke


Turn the channel to 999. That puts you into a diagnostic mode. I'm not sitting in front of the TV right now, but I'm almost positive if you page through all the available information there on the diagnostic channel one of them is remaining disk space (in bytes not recording time).

Jarrett

Does anyone know what software rev fixes the audio drop-outs that occur over the optical connection?

The drop-outs were *really* bad on ESPNHD last night. When I switched to analog, they disappeared.

Sal

I'm sorry, but doesn't anyone feel like complaining to TWC about have to shell out MORE money for ESPN HD? I can't believe the nerve of them sometimes... obviously they really like to use their monopoly powers. I don't want the other channels in the HD suite, all I want is ESPN HD. I think more people should sent them feedback if you feel the same way I do about this. Here is the link, since I don't have 5 posts I can't post the REAL link:

www .twcnc.com/template/contactus.cfm

Originally posted by manstretch
I'm sorry, but doesn't anyone feel like complaining to TWC about have to shell out MORE money for ESPN HD? I can't believe the nerve of them sometimes... obviously they really like to use their monopoly powers. I don't want the other channels in the HD suite, all I want is ESPN HD. I think more people should sent them feedback if you feel the same way I do about this. Here is the link, since I don't have 5 posts I can't post the REAL link:

www .twcnc.com/template/contactus.cfm

This practice seems to be in line with other providers like DISH and DirecTV putting ESPN-HD in their HD package. BTW, TWC's HD package is 3 bucks a month cheaper than Dish's and included INHD and INHD2, which DISH's does not.

My understanding is that ESPN forced TWC into paying extra for the HD feed and this is what the hold up was all along with bringing it on board. Honestly, I don't see this is a big deal at all. For me, HDNet/HDMovies, INHD/INHD2, and ESPN-HD bundled together for $7 is a suite (pun intended) deal.

Originally posted by manstretch
I'm sorry, but doesn't anyone feel like complaining to TWC about have to shell out MORE money for ESPN HD? I can't believe the nerve of them sometimes... obviously they really like to use their monopoly powers. I don't want the other channels in the HD suite, all I want is ESPN HD. I think more people should sent them feedback if you feel the same way I do about this. Here is the link, since I don't have 5 posts I can't post the REAL link:

www .twcnc.com/template/contactus.cfm

Not at all! Actually - we all should email them to say GREAT JOB! I'm sure they received thousands of emails and calls from people (me included) requesting this channel. Their corporate office finally got it done late friday -- and TWC NC had it up within a few hours Friday evening.
My hat goes off to them to hustle (on a friday no less) to get it up for us so we could enjoy the games on Sat and Sun.

I already had HD Suite -- so it's all gravy -- for me ESPN HD is getting added FREE and $7 is nothing considering all of the money I've invested in my equipment.

I agree w/ wjarrettc 100%.

Originally posted by supersalo
Does anyone know what software rev fixes the audio drop-outs that occur over the optical connection?

The drop-outs were *really* bad on ESPNHD last night. When I switched to analog, they disappeared.

Sal

Is there a digital audio coax output on the HD-DVR? Does it have audio drop-outs like the optical?

I'm at work now so I can't check.

Sooke

Originally posted by manstretch
I'm sorry, but doesn't anyone feel like complaining to TWC about have to shell out MORE money for ESPN HD? I can't believe the nerve of them sometimes... obviously they really like to use their monopoly powers.

While I'm almost always the first to rail the monopoloy man, it's only fair to point out that DirecTV and Dish both sell their HD as packages, not individual channels. Ala carte channels always sounds like a great idea until you realize that you would probably have to pay $10 PER CHANNEL if everyone picked just the channels they wanted.

Originally posted by sooke
Is there a digital audio coax output on the HD-DVR? Does it have audio drop-outs like the optical?

I'm at work now so I can't check.

Sooke

Yes, it does (have one) and yes it does (drop out, occassionally).

Honestly, though, my dropouts aren't really that bad. More than I'd like, but not enough for me to even consider giving up the HD-DVR capability.

Jarrett

I mentioned earlier that my recording of the race on TNT Saturday was shortened to only a half hour after the fact...since then EVERYTHING Ive recorded has been cut short by at least 5 minutes. I called TWC about my problems with this as well as breakups/dropouts and they are going to bring a new DVR on Wednesday. I really hope this will solve my problem, but I get the feeling Im getting a crappy signal in my building.

Well, I have mixed feelings about the TWC addition of espn-hd. I'm a Bronco fan and missed it but I don't have the suite package and would have missed it anyway. Oh Sigh.


Anyone notice FOX-HD on 50.1 dropping audio here and there?

Anyone have cablecard access working? I would consider HDSuite through cablecard on top of basic so long as I don't have to get the full standard cable.

One more question-- where do you get the HDNet (or HDSuite)and other HD programming from? TV-Guide from the Sunday paper is scant on HDcontent--- like Discovery theater.

Thanks,
Gary

Originally posted by gdpowell3


One more question-- where do you get the HDNet (or HDSuite)and other HD programming from? TV-Guide from the Sunday paper is scant on HDcontent--- like Discovery theater.

Thanks,
Gary
The best sources I've found are the channel's web sites:
INHD (http://www.inhd.com) and hdnet (http://www.hd.net)

Also titantv (http://www.titantv.com) is very useful.

I'm not wild about the format of the listing, but Titan TV's HDTV update is a good, one-stop place, to find everything that's available in HD for a certain day.

http://www.titantv.com/ttv/home/HDTVUpdate.aspx

That said, I tend to use my TiVo although I have noticed that HDNet and INHD tend to switch their schedules around a bit and sometimes TiVo is not updated.

I appreciate the channel lineup responses. Thanks!

I see that WB has HD content. Has TWC mentioned any interest in broadcasting the WB-HD? I've heard rumors that the OTA reception for WB is poor-- I'm about 20 miles from the main tower in Garner. Any opinions on OTA feasibility with an indoor antenna-- is it worth it?

Thanks,
Gary

Time Warner will not be carrying our OTA DTV signal anytime soon. There's some differences in opinion between our corporate leaders and TWC. Seems they want to charge the viewers for a service that the viewers could get over the air for free. They already charge you for carrying our broadcast signal (analog) in the basic cable services, but want to chage you a premium price for carrying the digital signal. Sinclair Corporate would rather TWC pay the broadcasters a percentage of this 100% profit they make off of TWC customers at the expense of the local broadcasters.
Please don't kill the messenger on this one - I can only tell you that I must support the decisions of Corporate. ;)

Please bear with us a little over the next few days - I'm currently struggling with a Tandberg HD satellite reciever that is rather.... err.... shall we say recalcitrant. It's rather hard to troubleshoot when WB doesn't send an HD signal until after I go home for the evening.

I'll also be installing and setting up all the DD 5.1 surround sound equipment in the coming weeks.

Stay tuned for the power increase; Sinclair has been charged with having to buy ALOT of tubes for all their digital transmitters, so it WILL come eventually - I want it just as bad as everyone else!

If you guys (and gals) have any questions, I'll do my best to answer.

Matt Harris
Assistant Chief Engineer
WLFL/WRDC TV

kd4pbs, thanks for the update.

I'm always intrigued by these types of reports of the cable/dbs companies and broadcasters bickering over carriage fees, etc. and they use the customer as the excuse for not being able to settle their differences.

But frankly, I don't mind paying for services that I'm interested in. If I have an option of dealing with antennae and OTA reception or I can pay TWC a small fee a month to bring in the digital signal in a clean and robust fashion, I'd be happy to pay for it.

Of course, I'm probably in the minority of people that believe in actually paying for services rendered, so I guess they better make it an a la carte offering so no one else's cable bill is affected :)

kd4pbs,

Does this mean that Sinclair (WLFL/WRDC) is providing HD content for the viewers who are getting their service directly from you OTA?

Jeremiah

kd4pbs (or anyone else),

I have not been able to get a signal from WLFLor WLFL-DT lately. I get a signal from WRDC just fine, as well as all the others from Raleigh. I am located in Fuquay and was just wondering if I need to go adjust my antenna again or if there is a problem with the transmitter?

Thanks,

Shawn

kd4pbs,

I'm in Greenville, NC and having the opposite problem. My signal for WLFL has vastly improved, but I am receiving no signal from WRDC anymore. This has all happened in the last week or so. Is there a problem with the transmitter?

Originally posted by wjarrettc

But frankly, I don't mind paying for services that I'm interested in. If I have an option of dealing with antennae and OTA reception or I can pay TWC a small fee a month to bring in the digital signal in a clean and robust fashion, I'd be happy to pay for it.


Right, then why doesn't TWC want to pay for the service they are getting from the broadcaster in return? That's the argument that Sinclair has with TWC. They already pay cable networks for their programming, and in return charge the customer for these "extended" cable services, but refuse to pay the broadcasters. I think that this is Sinclair's argument.
You may remember that Sinclair isn't the only one with this view; a few years ago TWC refused to pay for ABC programming, and pulled the local ABC affiliate from the cable service. Of course, TWC blamed this on ABC, which wasn't the case. It was a case of TWC not agreeing with the contract ABC put on the table.

Originally posted by jeremiah75
kd4pbs,

Does this mean that Sinclair (WLFL/WRDC) is providing HD content for the viewers who are getting their service directly from you OTA?

Jeremiah

Currently WB is the only network we get HD programming from, and in turn we broadcast this HD content (when the WB HD Receiver is functioning properly). UPN will follow soon.

Originally posted by easternncnewswat
kd4pbs,

I'm in Greenville, NC and having the opposite problem. My signal for WLFL has vastly improved, but I am receiving no signal from WRDC anymore. This has all happened in the last week or so. Is there a problem with the transmitter?

Originally posted be Joxre
kd4pbs (or anyone else),

I have not been able to get a signal from WLFLor WLFL-DT lately. I get a signal from WRDC just fine, as well as all the others from Raleigh. I am located in Fuquay and was just wondering if I need to go adjust my antenna again or if there is a problem with the transmitter?

Thanks,

Shawn


I removed WLFL-SD (22.2) from our programming lineup. I figured most of us have a TV capable of doing whatever stretching/formatting we would want to do with the SD upconversion that we broadcast on 22.1 when we aren't broadcasting 1080i . The upconverted NTSC signal on 22.1 looks far superior to the 704x480 SD encoding 22.2 had. This also leaves me with more room to push the HD stream. Currently I'm running it at 18Mbps. Perhaps some people with a marginal signal have problems decoding the higher bitrate I assigned to 22.1 (it was at 15Mbps before I took 22.2 away).

There have been no changes to either transmiter (WLFL-DT or WRDC-DT). I would suspect path changes, perhaps due to the wet weather we've had here lately. Also, I know there have been some serious propogation openings as of late. I get WLFL-DT at my home between Holly Springs and Fuquay-Varina, but can't receive WRDC-TV at all, even with a corner reflector up 35 feet on my tower. I think this has alot to do with a 5MW ERP channel 28 (WRDC TV) right on top of the 10KW ERP channel 27 (WRDC-DT). Some people can get WRDC-DT, most can't.

At $60K per tube (4 required for both transmitters), and not making any money off DTV right now, it's hard to justify to the bean counters right now why we need the tubes. They are coming, it's just not a super high priority right now. Also, we're waiting on a newer style, more efficient tube design to prove itself. I would guess within a year we should see full power.

kd4pbs,

Thanx for the information. I was wondering what happened to 22.2 as well. Glad to know that I'm not the only one having trouble receiving WRDC-DT. I get the analog signal fine, but not the digital. The opposite is true for WLFL. I get the digital signal great now, but no analog. I could only get the analog late at night anyways. Weird! Thanx for the heads up though.

Originally posted by kd4pbs
Right, then why doesn't TWC want to pay for the service they are getting from the broadcaster in return? That's the argument that Sinclair has with TWC.

I don't disagree with you, but I also see the other side of the coin. You might ask why wouldn't Sinclair pay TWC for making their signal available to more viewers. More viewers means higher ratings, which means higher ad revenue. This model has been deployed very effectively by the "Home Shopping" type networks. Why else would Dish/DirecTV and TWC have a dozen transponders tied up on this stuff that most of their customers can simply find on the internet.

Obviously, we're getting way off topic of RDU HDTV, but as a marketing manager (not in the TV business though) this is very interesting topic for me.

But back to the WB in HDTV. Is "Grounded for Life" filmed in HD?
That mom is hot! But I'm kind of scared to see the oldest son's hair in 1080i! :)

They must be working on it... Some odd audio/video things happening on NBC 17. Seeing some Weather Pulse popping up on the hd channel.

Originally posted by wjarrettc

Obviously, we're getting way off topic of RDU HDTV, but as a marketing manager (not in the TV business though) this is very interesting topic for me.

But back to the WB in HDTV. Is "Grounded for Life" filmed in HD?
That mom is hot! But I'm kind of scared to see the oldest son's hair in 1080i! :)

I agree - and also can't really discuss my opinions - just the company's view. And I'm not really the one to do that, because the info I get is usually passed through many hands, so... 'nuff said!

As for the programming, here's the info I have... straight from Michigan J. Frog's mouth. Being a marketing professional, you'll probably appreciate the wiz-bang splendor they're projecting. ;) Me being an egg-headed engineneer, I Wish they'd just tell me dates, times, coordinates, etc. :D

------

THE WB TO PRESENT NEARLY TWO-THIRDS OF ITS FALL SCHEDULE IN HIGH DEFINITION

NETWORK TO UNVEIL ITS 5.1 DOLBY SURROUND SOUND IN NOVEMBER WITH BROADCAST OF “LORD OF THE RINGS: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING”

BURBANK, CA (August 4, 2004) – The WB Network continues its commitment to the latest in television technology as it will broadcast 9.5 hours, or 63% of its schedule, in high definition this fall, it was announced today by Garth Ancier, the network’s Chairman.

The WB, which has had a substantial percentage of its programming in 1080-I HDTV since Fall, 2003, will broadcast dramas EVERWOOD, GILMORE GIRLS, ONE TREE HILL, SMALLVILLE, THE MOUNTAIN and JACK & BOBBY as well as comedies WHAT I LIKE ABOUT YOU, COMMANDO NANNY and REBA. The network will also broadcast its biggest events such as LORD OF THE RINGS: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, and its first made-for-TV movie, SAMANTHA: AN AMERICAN GIRL in high definition. The WB’s Sunday EasyView broadcasts of ONE TREE HILL and THE MOUNTAIN will also be broadcast in HDTV. Additionally, beginning with the November broadcast of LORD OF THE RINGS, The WB will air its shows with 5.1 surround sound.

“Our viewers are early adopters of new technology so The WB wants to offer as much programming in high definition as possible,” Mr. Ancier said. “It is important for us to give our audience the best experience possible, and given the cinematic scope and production values of our programs viewers will truly benefit from the amazing depth and clarity high-definition provides.”

The WB’s HDTV offerings:

Monday – EVERWOOD
Tuesday – GILMORE GIRLS; ONE TREE HILL
Wednesday – SMALLVILLE, THE MOUNTAIN
Friday – WHAT I LIKE ABOUT YOU, COMMANDO NANNY, REBA
Sunday – ONE TREE HILL (EasyView), ONE TREE HILL (EasyView), JACK & BOBBY


Our new HD shows for the fall are:



The Mountain (one hour drama)

Commando Nanny (half hour comedy)

Jack & Bobby (one hour drama)

-------------

Have fun, 'yall

-Matt

That answered my question... yes, it is worth it to try to pull it in with an OTA indoor antenna when the higher power comes in.

I may be lazy with enjoying the HD over cable (basic) but I am becoming addicted to the quality and I like the growing content-- -more choices of excellent picture quality. I can be awed AND watch what I like ;)

Thanks,
Gary

Just remember that you are getting a recompressed picture from TWC... not as high of a signal quality as the broadcaster delivers OTA.

Originally posted by kd4pbs
Just remember that you are getting a recompressed picture from TWC... not as high of a signal quality as the broadcaster delivers OTA.

Even the HD signal? I would think that changing the bitrate on a HD stream would be a very expensive thing to do. Time Warner doesn't do that, do they?

Originally posted by mswilson
Even the HD signal? I would think that changing the bitrate on a HD stream would be a very expensive thing to do. Time Warner doesn't do that, do they?

I beleive so; how else are they going to cram 2-3 HD channels into one cable channel? They have to pick the bitstream apart somewhere - we're broadcasting it all in a 6MHz wide channel (same as cable) in one transport stream. Somehow they pick the TS apart so that they can fit the various channels in the places they want. Look at the TWC channel mapping - they are fitting more in one channel than the broadcasters do.

Maybe the modulation scheme has something to do with this, but for instance, last time I did a channel scan on my mits (built-in QAM receiver) I got this on ch. 113:

113.1 WRAZ-HD (50.1)
113.2 WRAZ-DT (50.2)
113.3 WTVD-HD (11.1)
113.4 WTVD-DT (11.2)
113.5 WTVD-WX (11.3)
113.6 WRAL-WX (50.3)

There's no way a broadcaster could fit 2 HD and 4 SD streams in one channel. Well, we could do it, but they would be very compressed, and have gobs of artifacts.

As you can see, TWC is doing some bit splicing at the very least. I would be curious if someone has the ability to read the data rate they're getting from TWC on the different subchannels.

kd4pbs --

I know the year timeframe (until WLFL goes full power) is just a guesstimate, but does that reflect the info MisterDTV has been giving out (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4322242) as well, or is the year estimate prior to the Sinclair rollout?

I'm in Fayetteville, and can barely pick up the station (between 8 and 22 on the HDTiVo signal meter), but I will purchase an antenna amp if it's really gonna be a year till full power. Gilmore Girls is a must see, but I can use the DirecTV SD feed for a month or two if you guys are rolling up sooner.

I want to thank you greatly for showing up here. After moving to town, I was pissed that the WB wasn't available in HD here OTA. It's much more reassuring to know that it's being worked on and us HD fanatics aren't alone out here.

Mark would know much more than I as to the timeframe we will be increasing power. I'll defer any definitive date to his knowledge, as he's closer to the budget approval pen than I.

I am happy to report though that it looks like the problems we've been experiencing with our WB HD receiver have been ironed out with the latest firmware upgrades. Expect to see prime time WB in HD (what they provide us, at least) most nights. I'll be connecting the HD passthrough equipment to our automation system this week, so the transition to HD should be a little more reliable. Right now, we're relying on our MCO to remember to press "the button" :D .

I've actually been lurking here for 2 years or so - I even made some contributions, but was scolded by the forum admins and others. Seems that some opinions are frowned upon, and even some facts, such as the 8VSB versus COFDM study that I conveyed are frowned upon even more, so I respectfully left the forum. I decided to show up again to offer any assistance to our viewers though, maybe time has taught us all the facts. So, this time around, I'll be more politically correct and only disseminate information that everyone wants to hear :D .

-Matt

Thanks Matt for all of your information. Its good to know that sometime in the future, we will have all 6 networks in HD in the area at full power :). I was unaware that WLFL was even broadcasting HD now, but tonight I was lucky enough to actually see that it was indeed the case. Looked pretty good too, and I was digging the fact that the local stuff had grey sidebars (my rear projection CRT will appreciate it ;) ). Hopefully TWC will add it soon (or Ill finally pick up a tuner and antenna...Ive been wondering if I should try OTA for my locals anyhow).

Originally posted by kd4pbs
Somehow they pick the TS apart so that they can fit the various channels in the places they want. Look at the TWC channel mapping - they are fitting more in one channel than the broadcasters do.


Right - they'll demux the signal you send at a minimum. I'm just hoping that they are not doing more to the stream like statistical remultiplexing.


Maybe the modulation scheme has something to do with this, but for instance, last time I did a channel scan on my mits (built-in QAM receiver) I got this on ch. 113:


I get the same channels you do.


There's no way a broadcaster could fit 2 HD and 4 SD streams in one channel. Well, we could do it, but they would be very compressed, and have gobs of artifacts.

As you can see, TWC is doing some bit splicing at the very least. I would be curious if someone has the ability to read the data rate they're getting from TWC on the different subchannels.

A 6 MHz channel encoded with QAM 256 is 38.8 Mbps. That's enough for two HD streams at 19 Mbps per stream, but not 2 HD and 4 SD. I'd wager that most content isn't using a full 19 Mbps. Time warner must be using around 15 MBps per HD channel and 2 Mbps per SD channel.

Is your OTA stream fixed at 19 Mbps? Or is it variable?

Originally posted by mswilson

A 6 MHz channel encoded with QAM 256 is 38.8 Mbps. That's enough for two HD streams at 19 Mbps per stream, but not 2 HD and 4 SD. I'd wager that most content isn't using a full 19 Mbps. Time warner must be using around 15 MBps per HD channel and 2 Mbps per SD channel.

Is your OTA stream fixed at 19 Mbps? Or is it variable?

Thinking about it more, it looks like they would have to be doing some shaping to fit 2 HD and 4 SD streams on one channel. I'm guessing that they're also stripping PSIP when they remux the streams into their channels, since the guide in my tv has never worked over cable.

WLFL is doing HD now!!? WOW! I can't wait to check this out!!!

The fundamental carrier stream total data rate is fixed at 19.392658Mbps. Contained in this stream is all the goodies one gets with OTA HD - PSIP, the video streams, RRT tables, etc. In this stream, I am pushing the HD subchannel (video and audio) at 18Mbps. The remainder is taken up by these ancillary data streams such as the PSIP info (PAT, PMT, VCT, RRT, EIT), and anything over this is filled with null packets to make the total data rate. If I did some math, I could figure out exactly how high I could take the HD stream. I'm sure that TWC wouldn't take up half of their channel capacity to carry our HD channel at 18Mbps though. Of course, this is all speculation. I just need to actually call some people who know the details I guess.

Thanks for the info on the payload TWC uses - I figured they must have a higher data rate per channel. Maybe they aren't recompressing it, maybe they are. Trying to get a definite answer would be pretty hard I'm sure.

The best way to tell would be to set up two TVs side-by-side, one tuned to the OTA broadcast, the other tuned to digital cable. Watch a football game, NASCAR race, or some other MPEG punishment test, and see which one shows artifacts first.

Originally posted by kd4pbs
The best way to tell would be to set up two TVs side-by-side, one tuned to the OTA broadcast, the other tuned to digital cable. Watch a football game, NASCAR race, or some other MPEG punishment test, and see which one shows artifacts first.

Don't forget to use the same mpeg decoder and scalar for that, or who knows where the various artifacts you see came from... I'm guessing the mpeg decoder in the 8000HD box isn't particularly good (since nothing else in it is any good).

Erik

I just heard from a head engineer at TWC - they do not recompress the video streams from the broadcasters - they only strip some PSIP information. This is good news, and renews my opinion that at least the technical end of TWC knows what they're doing.

Then theres the QAM conversion. No idea what that intails. I thought I read that recently TWC started passing through the PSIP data for the personally owned HD boxes that have built-in QAM receivers for the local's unencrypted HD channels and guide data (Like the LG 3100, 3410, 3510 boxes).

Converting to QAM has no effect on the signal - it's just a different modulation scheme. One could convert from 8VSB to SMPTE310M to QAM to super-high-speed morse code to PSK to FSK then back to 8VSB and not see any difference. They just pick the video stream out of our payload, remultiplex it with all the other video streams, then modulate it onto the RF channel. The difference comes when one changes the actual data that the modulation scheme carries.
That would be nice if they're passing through the PSIP data, since my Mits would be much nicer to use with VCT remapping on cable.

Now, off to watch Smallville in HD *FINALLY* !

-Matt

As an old analog video broadcast engineer from way back (I worked broadcasting in the early 70's while in school....I can fix your old analog Ampex VTR) , but now doomed to be a PC designer, can you recommend some good sources of info for DTV/HDTV basics? All this talk of bits, datastreams, and acronyms I've never heard of have aroused my curiosity. Thanks.

Here you go, Dave... one of many http://home.earthlink.net/~wb9nme/articles/atsc-2.html (right here) .

Sorry, we threw our Sony BVH 2500 in the dumpster last year, along with a few BVH 2000s and a few more BVH 1100s. :D

Why don't you come by the studio during the day sometime you have the time and I'll show you some DTV stuff?

-Matt

Unfortunately I believe attempting to pass the PSIP info is exactly what broke the LG LST-3100A unites a few weeks back. A quick call to the fine engineers at WRAL had them speaking with TWC and I believe they either changed how the PSIP was passed or ceased doing so temporarily.

The LG units, of which a number of local folks like myself have, were negatively impacted by attempting to pass along the PSIP. At least that is what I remember being the explain. I also got the impression that the LG units were not in spec somehow. This assumption was partially corroborated by the fact that other QAM recievers (some sony' units specifically) had no problems before or after TWC attempted to initially pass the PSIP data.

I'm in Durham, near Southpoint and can get all the networks HD channels and PBS just fine, but couldn't get the WB signal for Smallville last night. I guess I'm one of the ones who needs to wait for the signal boost, eh?

Originally posted by keefer37
I'm in Durham, near Southpoint and can get all the networks HD channels and PBS just fine, but couldn't get the WB signal for Smallville last night. I guess I'm one of the ones who needs to wait for the signal boost, eh?

Interesting. I'm next to Southpoint, too and I can get WB just fine. Sure enough, Smallville was in HD on my Tivo this morning.

On the other hand, I can't really pick up PBS the way my antenna is facing. But I have a QAM tuner that gets that for me from TWC. Maybe you should look at your antenna and/or it's placement.

I'm using a Channel Master 3018.

Was smallville in HD. If so what chennel. It looked pretty bad on my end. Im using TW

I'm need Southpoint also and was able to get Smallville last night. It was the first time I watched WLFL in forever. I was also able to receive PBS last night, it was the first time that has happened for me. I have someone coming out on Monday to install an omni-directional antenna that should help me get it better.

Originally posted by maxflia
Was smallville in HD. If so what chennel. It looked pretty bad on my end. Im using TW

Yes, Smallville was in HD last night. However, it's not available through TWC as far as I know.

You need an antenna to get it. I'm sure that will change eventually - but I have no idea if/when it will be on TWC.

I have a question. When a TV station is retransmitted on cable, are the TV stations commercials and advertisers also retransmitted to the larger viewing audience covered by cable?

Jeremiah