There's a RUMOR floating around that there could be a third HD channel added soon. Maybe KVWB is reconsidering their fee?

Any more news on this potential "third" HD channel?

Many calls are routed to Atlanta GA, or whatever call center around the country (if not in the USA, then India?) has the least amount of wait time or available operators. They are available for outage reports where NO service is available, and then that is routed to the local level to send out a truck to diagnose or repair the problem.
There is no "Mission Control" where hundreds of people are watching hundreds of TV channels all around the country. That's just plain stupid and a waste of time, money and resources.
On top of that, Hi-Def is not a mandatory carriage or broadcast requirement. ANY Station at ANY time, can decide to broadcast WHAT it wants, WHEN it wants, and HOW it wants in regards to format. If they do not flip the switch to HD, then they are within their rights to not do so for no reason what-so-ever. Many stations around the country will switch to SD broadcasts for weather related info to be scrolled across the screen and never switch back to HD the rest of the night.
There is no contract anywhere that says any programming ever has to be in High Definition. It is up to the individual station to determine wether it wants to broadcast it in HD or not. Cable Companies retain NO responsibility to any content offered by a local station, the same as it has NO responsibility to the content offered via the internet service it provides. It is provided as-is. If you don't like a particular website, don't visit it, or write an email to the webmaster.
Don't like a station's HD procedures, write a letter! Good old fashioned letter writing (not an email or call, which get dismissed) WILL get seen by a station's marketing and programming directors and will have to be filed and recorded. That same letter to a cable company will not go anywhere, because there is no programming director to handle content, only service techs in trucks to make sure the signal is getting through.

Remember, THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT, and MUST BE SATISFIED. That model is outdated and extinct along with the companies and businesses that went bankrupt trying to follow it.
However if that is still the case, I may start calling Cox and D* and ask them to get rid of all the Baseball channels because it's a waste of time and bandwidth, and we could put more HD channels there instead.

vegggas

Any more news on this potential "third" HD channel?
No. Hence this was just a rumor. I believe there were some good faith meetings with KVBC, but no agreement was ever made.

vegggas

Cox should really start some good faith meetings with Disney and add ESPN2HD already.

And YOU don't seem to understand that I am perfectly able to understand that Cox is NOT responsible for what the stations provide them.
On the other hand, I feel that it IS the responsibility of Cox to alert stations such as KVBC that their signal is NOT being transmitted in HD. They obviously have a better chance of reaching the station at an evening hour than does the average viewer. If indeed, it is merely somebody neglecting to flip a switch at the local station, Cox ought to be able to contact them so that such a switch CAN be flipped. They owe it to the satisfaction of their customers.

Cox should be the viewers advocate, and not simply stand by letting things happen as they may.

"Cox should be....Cox ought to....it is the responsibility of Cox..." Dude, you need to send your moaning and groaning to Cox's email address. Can you please shut your pie hole about Cox. You're barking up the wrong tree...

Today, all my previously saved episodes of LOST were automatically erased from my 8300HD DVR. There were rumors of content limited viewing based on flags, but have never seen it. Just wondering if anyone else can confirm this actually happened, or did I accidently erase them while tinkering with the other DVR in the rack. I use a DVD case to block the IR so that I control only 1 STB at a time, so there is a possibility I did delete them accidently, but it's unlikely.

vegggas

"Cox should be....Cox ought to....it is the responsibility of Cox..." Dude, you need to send your moaning and groaning to Cox's email address. Can you please shut your pie hole about Cox. You're barking up the wrong tree... As long as I am not abusive to any board member (as YOU definetely are) I will continue to complain about Cox's service and programming, as long and as often as I wish.

If you (or anyone else) doesn't like it, that's just too bad. Nobody has to respond to my posts in any way. But if they do, I believe it's because they detect a scintilla of correctness in my viewpoint.

As long as I am not abusive to any board member (as YOU definetely are) I will continue to complain about Cox's service and programming, as long and as often as I wish.

If you (or anyone else) doesn't like it, that's just too bad. Nobody has to respond to my posts in any way. But if they do, I believe it's because they detect a scintilla of correctness in my viewpoint.

Veggas has never been abusive to any member. He actually is the most informative and constructive here.

As for you, I would suggest you be constructive too instead of making us all laugh.

I think he was referring to the previous post and quote from jb1219 when he was talking about abusive members... I personally didn't find it too abusive in either direction, but then again, each has member has various "buttons" that can be pushed...
For me, I can be quite the A$$ when I've been drinking and browsing :p :rolleyes:
I try not to post while intoxicated, but I never go back and erase or edit the original if I do. I always leave my posts exactly the way I posted to remind myself not post again, and apologise if needed.

Cox should really start some good faith meetings with Disney and add ESPN2HD already.

Do you remember the loooong drawn out negotiations between these two when ESPNHD came out. Remember how Disney wanted a lot of money per subscriber AND mandatory coverage of the entire Disney/ABC/Family lineup of channels included in the basic lineup (guaranteeing that the cable co couldn't move to an all digital lineup and no other added channels). If I remember correctly that was a multi year deal with no amendments for 30 months. D* was in negotiations when ESPN2 was announced, so they added that to the contract, but lost first launch rights because they also didn't want to pay for every subscriber.

vegggas

foghorn2,

Next time try READING my post and ascertain to whom I was referring, and who I was quoting. Otherwise, I'm afraid it's YOU that should be laughed at.

Do you remember the loooong drawn out negotiations between these two when ESPNHD came out. Remember how Disney wanted a lot of money per subscriber AND mandatory coverage of the entire Disney/ABC/Family lineup of channels included in the basic lineup (guaranteeing that the cable co couldn't move to an all digital lineup and no other added channels). If I remember correctly that was a multi year deal with no amendments for 30 months. D* was in negotiations when ESPN2 was announced, so they added that to the contract, but lost first launch rights because they also didn't want to pay for every subscriber.

vegggas

If there's really no way the deal can be ammended than the situation is plain stupid. Ever since DirecTV added it and the viewership expanded past 2 households ESPN2HD has delivered a lot of live HD content. Maybe it's karma for the cable companies denying the dishes fair access to INHD.

No, it was Disney/ESPN's idea of a gotcha. Many cable co's and sat co's were up for renewal of their contracts during the 2004 & 2005 seasons. At this time ESPN demanded an amount around $3.50/ month for EVERY subscriber, regardless of service level and also demanded that every Disney/ABC/ABC Family/PAX/ESPN affiliated channel be added to the basic analog lineup or lowest priced tier. There are about 20 different affiliated channels that they wanted to have added to the basic lineup.
During the negotiations, there was no mention of any upcoming ESPN2-HD channel and the current ESPN2-SD channel was included in the deals. Once deals were made by most MSO's and sat companies (except those last two that now have ESPNHD2) they announced the ESPN2-HD channel. D* and Adelphia had not finalized negotiations yet and were allowed to incorporate that channel into their deals. It is thought that the ESPN2-HD channel was in retaliation of many deals that did not go the way ABC/Disney had intended or had not generated enough revenue because of lower priced deals. This was a way to say take ALL our channels as a package (and any new ones that come along for this price) or suffer the consequences. ESPN had been criticised for moving HD programming to a seperate channel when their primary HD channel still didn't (doesn't) have enough content to keep it filled.
The current contracts are low enough that Cox can provide ESPN HD as a free service to digital subscribers, since there is no premium for HD channels that mirror SD channels. i.e. if you get the sd version, you get the HD version free as a digital subscriber. Those areas where you get ESPN2-HD have an extra surcharge to view HD content, like D*'s $10.99 HD package. To add ESPN2-HD to the Cox Lineup would incur a charge to EVERY customer, but divided up among only the HD customers. i.e they would charge for 1 million basic subscribers, with or without HD, but only the HD customers would have to pay. That doesn't make sense.

vegggas

Speaking of ESPNHD, I for one am very disappointed that their NBA games are not HD. I know they cant televise everything in HD, but NBA should be given more priority. I am hoping that once college football ends, they will have more resources available to do the NBA games, but I have a feeling they will commit those cameras to NCAA basketball instead. In the meantime, I'm elated that we now have TNTHD primarily because of their HD NBA coverage. I do have D* also, but really dont find myself watching ESPN2HD much unless their is a specific game they are broadcasting in HD that I want to see.

Speaking of ESPNHD, I for one am very disappointed that their NBA games are not HD. I know they cant televise everything in HD, but NBA should be given more priority. I am hoping that once college football ends, they will have more resources available to do the NBA games, but I have a feeling they will commit those cameras to NCAA basketball instead. In the meantime, I'm elated that we now have TNTHD primarily because of their HD NBA coverage. I do have D* also, but really dont find myself watching ESPN2HD much unless their is a specific game they are broadcasting in HD that I want to see.

Well, right now where there's a NBA game on there's usually a HD college football game on ESPN2HD (in tonites case Rutgers @ Louisville). Once the college football season ends I hope some of the HD trucks are used to cover the NBA.

Cox must sooner or later come to the consclusion that they SHOULD be charging a premium for HD service. The policy of giving it away, is self defeating and leaves customers unable to receive all the services they want. I for one WOULD be willing to pay such a premium if Cox would carry more HD channels. Especially ESPN2-HD. So far TNT and Universal have proven to be dull as dishwater. What good are channels if nobody (or very few patrons) watch them, and if the programming on them consists mostly of re-runs?

In fact, in case you hadn't noticed TNT-HD has often transmitted its signal in Stretch-O-Vision (ala ABC) . If we excoriate ABC for doing so, why don't we extend that excoriation to TNT-HD?

Of course, if Cox DID charge a premium for its HD service, they would also thereby acquire responsibility for seeing that the customer got what he was paying for, and would be partially charged with maintaining the best possible signal and the highest standards obtainable from each station. No longer would the excuse "We're just relaying the signal", hold water.

That's apparently a responsibility Cox doesn't want to bear, and as is usual, the customer is the loser.

Of course, if Cox DID charge a premium for its HD service, they would also thereby acquire responsibility for seeing that the customer got what he was paying for, and would be partially charged with maintaining the best possible signal and the highest standards obtainable from each station. No longer would the excuse "We're just relaying the signal", hold water.

That's apparently a responsibility Cox doesn't want to bear, and as is usual, the customer is the loser.

You sure do know a lot about the inner workings of decision making at Cox...

[QUOTE=Word Maestro]Cox must sooner or later come to the consclusion that they SHOULD be charging a premium for HD service. The policy of giving it away, is self defeating and leaves customers unable to receive all the services they want.QUOTE]


In my mind, they already do charge for the HD service. Not only do we pay extra for the HD converter box over the regular digital box, we also pay to receive the non-over the air digital channels. If HD was free, then all of our QAM capable HD tuners would be picking up ALL the HD channels unencrypted.

Are the QAM signals coming from Cox degraded at all for local channels? The image doesn't seem as good as OTA signals.

You sure do know a lot about the inner workings of decision making at Cox...

Not really.

Merely applying some deductive, intuitive and logical reasoning.

Can you come up with an alternative explanation?

I doubt it.

In my mind, they already do charge for the HD service. Not only do we pay extra for the HD converter box over the regular digital box, we also pay to receive the non-over the air digital channels.

So I assume that you agree with the sentiments and conclusions I offered in post #2766. Now let me hear you raise your voice in protest over Coxs' claim that "We only relay the signal". No doubt, that's EXACTLY what they do. But if (as you have pointed out) they DO charge for HD service, then they ought to be doing something more tnan merely passing the baton.

So I assume that you agree with the sentiments and conclusions I offered in post #2766. Now let me hear you raise your voice in protest over Coxs' claim that "We only relay the signal". No doubt, that's EXACTLY what they do. But if (as you have pointed out) they DO charge for HD service, then they ought to be doing something more tnan merely passing the baton.
You're reading the exact opposite of what he's saying. He said that we pay for the channels like Universal HD, TNTHD, and ESPN HD. The local HD channels are available completely free to anyone who has the minimum analog level of service.

We also pay for the other 300 channels they carry. Should people be paid to sit there 24/7 and watch every single channel to make sure there are no problems? Only for HD channels you say? Well, we make up such a small portion of the overall viewing audience that it makes no sense to pay someone to monitor for us. If you don't like how Cox does something, then D* and E* would be more than happy to take your money and provide you with the same level of service.

Not really.

Merely applying some deductive, intuitive and logical reasoning.

Can you come up with an alternative explanation?

I doubt it.

Deductive, yes. Logical, sure. But intuitive, not really. You ignore every other piece of information offered on this board, and only listen to what's in your own cynical mind. And I disagree with you. Even if Cox charged a premium for HD service, they would still use the excuse of "just passing the signal." They charge a premium for digital content. If a digital channel goes out, do we expect Cox to fix it? Sure. But if we were to call Cox and they explain that their feed is lost, do we accept the explanation and go on our way. I think so. So what's the difference?

And you really think that you are so much smarter than everyone else on this board. I'll match wits with you any day...

In fact, in case you hadn't noticed TNT-HD has often transmitted its signal in Stretch-O-Vision (ala ABC) . If we excoriate ABC for doing so, why don't we extend that excoriation to TNT-HD?
Because TNT doesn't stretch, they zoom.

By the way, since you wish to compare Cox LV to cable companies in the top markets in the US, you should know that customers in those cities sometimes find someone forgot to hit the HD switch, too. And their cableco's don't have some guy watching all the HD channels, then picking up The Red Direct-Line Phone and pounding down the station manager's door with torch and knife to get the HD back on.

So I assume that you agree with the sentiments and conclusions I offered in post #2766. Now let me hear you raise your voice in protest over Coxs' claim that "We only relay the signal". No doubt, that's EXACTLY what they do. But if (as you have pointed out) they DO charge for HD service, then they ought to be doing something more tnan merely passing the baton.

:eek: Hey Word, it's just television. Why not enjoy the technology we have today. Yes, it is not perfect, but a whole lot better than what it was 30 years ago.

If you are not satisfied with COX, move on. There are other choices.
I've tried them all, and let me tell you, COX has the best programming, picture quality, customer service and way better equipment than the rest.

And their cableco's don't have some guy watching all the HD channels, then picking up The Red Direct-Line Phone and pounding down the station manager's door with torch and knife to get the HD back on.

Well that doesn't speak well for customer service. They do not have to use torch and knife, but a Red Direct phone line to the station manager would be both appropriate and welcome by HD viewers. No excuse is acceptable to me for why that isn't being done.


And bcoombs said, "And you really think that you are so much smarter than everyone else on this board. I'll match wits with you any day"...

No I don't think I'M smarter than EVERYONE else. But I also don't think there is anyone smarter than me around here. And I KNOW I'M a hell of alot smarter than some posters that resort to personal insult to make their point.

alot is not a word, Word.

And I KNOW I'M a hell of alot smarter than some posters that resort to personal insult to make their point.

Hey, did anyone else notice in the flyer that Cox had in Sunday's paper a little blurb about HD Movies on Demand? Sounds exciting, but I couldn't find anything on the program guide yet. vegggas you heard anything about this?

Joe

It's a shame that some people (one or two) insist on making this thread into a whinning session!

Joe,
I didn't see that...but thanks for the tidbit. That will be great!

Vegggas- any info on this?
Word-try not to comment :D

Hey, did anyone else notice in the flyer that Cox had in Sunday's paper a little blurb about HD Movies on Demand? Sounds exciting, but I couldn't find anything on the program guide yet. vegggas you heard anything about this?

Joe

I don't see the purpose of "In Demand" movie channels. Any film that appears on those stations is certainly available as a DVD (either for purchase or rental). It's just another Cox ploy to keep the natives from becoming restless.

I want NEW programming. On NEW HD channels.

I don't see the purpose of "In Demand" movie channels. Any film that appears on those stations is certainly available as a DVD (either for purchase or rental). It's just another Cox ploy to keep the natives from becoming restless.

I want NEW programming. On NEW HD channels.

Gee. I do hope you give Cox as much a piece of your mind as you do this board. Perhaps a more focused and directed use of your energy would benefit all of us...most importantly...you. As for programming, I suspect it will still take a while before we're all satisfied with the volume of HD content available. I personally would love to see more baseball in HD. However, MLB's unbelievably maddening "territorial" blackout restrictions prevent the good citizens of Las Vegas from seeing virtually ANYTHING involving west coast teams in HD via INHD. But that's a whole other kettle of fish and I digress...

I'm as anxious for more HD programming as you and the others here. But, there is always a seemingly long "ramp-up" time for changes such as these. Remember that the transition in television from black & white to color wasn't exactly overnight. All things in good time, my man.

Yes, but DVD is not High Def (yet), so a dedicated "In Demand" option would be nice to watch movies in true high def. Also, it would be nice to have the option to watch the HBO series in high def "on demand."

I don't see the purpose of "In Demand" movie channels. Any film that appears on those stations is certainly available as a DVD (either for purchase or rental). It's just another Cox ploy to keep the natives from becoming restless.

I want NEW programming. On NEW HD channels.

I don't see the purpose of "In Demand" movie channels. Any film that appears on those stations is certainly available as a DVD (either for purchase or rental). It's just another Cox ploy to keep the natives from becoming restless.

I want NEW programming. On NEW HD channels.

And since I rarely see movies at the theater, this would be NEW programming to me...

There is a noticeable difference between DVD quality and HD quality movies. I just wish we could transfer the HD quality movies to the PC.

Hey, did anyone else notice in the flyer that Cox had in Sunday's paper a little blurb about HD Movies on Demand? Sounds exciting, but I couldn't find anything on the program guide yet. vegggas you heard anything about this?

Joe


I also noticed the picture of the DVR unit they advertised in that flyer and it didn't look at all like the 8300. I wonder if its an old pic ( i dont remember what the 8000 looked like) or if its a new DVR box they are coming out with but not in this market yet?

There is a noticeable difference between DVD quality and HD quality movies. I just wish we could transfer the HD quality movies to the PC.

Yes, there is a noticeable difference. But NOT a vast difference. I have a top of the line DVD player, operating out of the progressive scan (component) outputs, adjusted for 480p. I don't have a DVD player that will upconvert to 720p or 1080i. I don't think it's necessary.
The picture fills the HD screen (as long as its 1.85:1) with no distortions and no letterboxing. And I am very hard pressed to tell the difference between true HD quality and the picture my DVD player produces. And apparently you DO realize how critical I am. Yet that satisfies me. I await an HD-DVD format simply because I will be able to record in HD. But for playback (IMO), very little is left to desire with current technology.

Hello. I am new to this forum. I have been lurking for a while. I am getting ready to get an HDTV. With this I also want to upgrade my DirecTV Tivo to a HDTivo. For this I will need an antenna. I went to antennaweb and they said that I need a small multidirectional antenna to get most of the stations, then it said I need a large pre-amped directional to get the Fox station. I live in the east part of the valley, near Boulder and Flamingo. I was planning on mounting the antenna near my dish from which there is a clean line of sight to the antennas on Black Mountain. Is the Fox antenna on another mountain? Thus the need for the bigger antenna, or can I get away with the small multidirectional. There are a few houses in my development that have those stealth fighter looking antennas, what kind are those?
I was pondering switching to Cox so I don't have to deal with the whole antenna thing, but judging from comments in this thread, their service seems unreliable, is that an accurate judgement? Plus I am very happy with DirecTV and Tivo (even though they will be phasing it out soon). Any comments on DIrecTV's HD reception? Thanks all!

I am in the same position as the previous Vegas poster(about to get hdtv)I have the choice of directv or cox cable. Is it worth getting cox to get ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX? or are those channels not really top quality hi-def on cox?also, is there any way to get INHD and INHD2 if you live in Vegas? Further, does anyone know if the Craig Ferguson(cbs) show or the Jimmy Kimmel(abc) show are in HD?thanks.

I am in the same position as the previous Vegas poster(about to get hdtv)I have the choice of directv or cox cable. Is it worth getting cox to get ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX? or are those channels not really top quality hi-def on cox?also, is there any way to get INHD and INHD2 if you live in Vegas? Further, does anyone know if the Craig Ferguson(cbs) show or the Jimmy Kimmel(abc) show are in HD?thanks.

While I'm sure some on this forum will tell you differently, I've been very happy with the HD service of Cox. It's not perfect, but I think it's been very good. The HD DVR has served me well so far, and the local HD channels (for the most part) have good primetime content and HD sporting events. And don't even get me started on watching UFC in HD... :)

While I'm sure some on this forum will tell you differently, I've been very happy with the HD service of Cox. It's not perfect, but I think it's been very good. The HD DVR has served me well so far, and the local HD channels (for the most part) have good primetime content and HD sporting events. And don't even get me started on watching UFC in HD... :)

So are you overall happy with the HD-DVR service? Does it record two shows at once. Allow for season passes? I am just curious since I want to explore all options. Looking at the Cox site, it looks like the pricing goes $40 for the basic cable/digital cable, and $20 for the HD and HD-DVR rental. Then if I get HBO do I get the HBO HD channel too? Another thing that I heard is that if the cable is out, and I want to watch something recorded to pass the time it won't let me because the DVR needs to be hooked to cable to work. Is this true for Cox?

So are you overall happy with the HD-DVR service? Does it record two shows at once. Allow for season passes? I am just curious since I want to explore all options. Looking at the Cox site, it looks like the pricing goes $40 for the basic cable/digital cable, and $20 for the HD and HD-DVR rental. Then if I get HBO do I get the HBO HD channel too? Another thing that I heard is that if the cable is out, and I want to watch something recorded to pass the time it won't let me because the DVR needs to be hooked to cable to work. Is this true for Cox?

I'm very happy with the HD-DVR service. You can record two shows at once, and set it to record all episodes of a show (in a few different ways). I have HBO, Showtime and Starz packages. Including my cable modem, my cable bill runs about $140 a month. That may seem like a lot, but the TV and computer (surfing the intarweb) are probably the two most used things in my home.

I'm not sure about the last question, as I've not tried to watch a recording while the cable is out. Anyone else?

I'm very happy with the HD-DVR service. You can record two shows at once, and set it to record all episodes of a show (in a few different ways). I have HBO, Showtime and Starz packages. Including my cable modem, my cable bill runs about $140 a month. That may seem like a lot, but the TV and computer (surfing the intarweb) are probably the two most used things in my home.

I'm not sure about the last question, as I've not tried to watch a recording while the cable is out. Anyone else?

I am a DirecTV guy, I have the HDTIVO and a full Directv package. When it is not football season, my cost is only 83 bucks, my COX hispeed is at 35 and I have the highest speed. So I am a bit cheaper than bcoombs. WHY? I think it is the old game of pricec shopping and chopping when I ordered my services. Soooo I would suggest whomever you go with to haggle away at prices.

speco........

How did you get cox broadband for only 35? I have had their broadband service since it was brought to the valley and without their cable TV service mine is $50 per month....

speco........

How did you get cox broadband for only 35? I have had their broadband service since it was brought to the valley and without their cable TV service mine is $50 per month....


Well I had offers from Directv and yahoo DSL that I called COX about I said I prefer not to switch but I will based on the price they offer me. They gave me what she said at the time was a 6 month customer retention deal, but that was about 11 months ago. In the middle of dec it will be a year.

i must say when I called them as was very nice and sweet to the young lady, it was a easy call. My friend says his was the same way.

Wah!

Well I'm a little envious...

I guess my wheel doesn't squeek enough.

One of the guys in our band at the show got a similar offer from the Dish Network, he called COX and they gave him the same deal, that has been about 2 months ago.

Hello. I am new to this forum. I have been lurking for a while. I am getting ready to get an HDTV. With this I also want to upgrade my DirecTV Tivo to a HDTivo. For this I will need an antenna. I went to antennaweb and they said that I need a small multidirectional antenna to get most of the stations, then it said I need a large pre-amped directional to get the Fox station. I live in the east part of the valley, near Boulder and Flamingo. I was planning on mounting the antenna near my dish from which there is a clean line of sight to the antennas on Black Mountain. Is the Fox antenna on another mountain? Thus the need for the bigger antenna, or can I get away with the small multidirectional. There are a few houses in my development that have those stealth fighter looking antennas, what kind are those?
I was pondering switching to Cox so I don't have to deal with the whole antenna thing, but judging from comments in this thread, their service seems unreliable, is that an accurate judgement? Plus I am very happy with DirecTV and Tivo (even though they will be phasing it out soon). Any comments on DIrecTV's HD reception? Thanks all!

I'm have DirecTV, but no HD-DVR. I subscribe to Total Choice Plus, HD Pack, HBO, and Showtime for about $65 a month. I am able to recieve all of the local hd ota channels with a pair of bunny ears, including KVWB (WB HD) which you won't get with Cox. What you recive in HD from DirecTV is ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD, HDnet, HDnet Movies, OLN HD*, NFL Network HD*, Fox Sports West HD*, HBO HD+ and Showtime HD+. (* part time, + with movie subscription).

As far as antennas go, I've never heard of any trouble picking up Fox, it's mainly NBC that is difficult to receive.

I'm have DirecTV, but no HD-DVR. I subscribe to Total Choice Plus, HD Pack, HBO, and Showtime for about $65 a month. I am able to recieve all of the local hd ota channels with a pair of bunny ears, including KVWB (WB HD) which you won't get with Cox. What you recive in HD from DirecTV is ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD, HDnet, HDnet Movies, OLN HD*, NFL Network HD*, Fox Sports West HD*, HBO HD+ and Showtime HD+. (* part time, + with movie subscription).

As far as antennas go, I've never heard of any trouble picking up Fox, it's mainly NBC that is difficult to receive.with directv, what programs are broadcast in hi-def on fox sports west?also, where did you buy your bunny ears and at what store?I've heard bad reports from people in vegas who got antennas to pull in the local channels in hi-def-alot of them did not get the Hi-def signals. Thanks.

I'm have DirecTV, but no HD-DVR. I subscribe to Total Choice Plus, HD Pack, HBO, and Showtime for about $65 a month. I am able to recieve all of the local hd ota channels with a pair of bunny ears, including KVWB (WB HD) which you won't get with Cox. What you recive in HD from DirecTV is ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD, HDnet, HDnet Movies, OLN HD*, NFL Network HD*, Fox Sports West HD*, HBO HD+ and Showtime HD+. (* part time, + with movie subscription).

As far as antennas go, I've never heard of any trouble picking up Fox, it's mainly NBC that is difficult to receive.

Thanks for the information! I think that the ability to use bunny ears varies based on your geographic location in the valley. Although it might be worth a try before I get the ladder out to mount a $99 antenna.

with directv, what programs are broadcast in hi-def on fox sports west?also, where did you buy your bunny ears and at what store?I've heard bad reports from people in vegas who got antennas to pull in the local channels in hi-def-alot of them did not get the Hi-def signals. Thanks.

For the Fox sports HD schedule go to http://msn.foxsports.com/name/HD

I'm using non-powered bunny ears from RCA with a tuning knob that I picked up at Wal-mart for 10 bucks or so. The "tuning knob" is actually for matching the cable length for the signal you're trying to receive which happens to be critical for KVBC because of the long wavelength of frequency 2. Unless you live in the shadow of black mountain in Henderson ota reception should be possible.

Well I finally did it this weekend. I went out an got a nice 50 "Sony LCD Rear Projection TV.
I bought a set of $9 rabbit ears, and when I went home the TV found all of the HD channels without a problem. So far I have been very happy with the TV and the local HD channels. My favorite is the PBS HD channel. Looking through this thread, I always wondered what people were complaining about when they talked about the ABC channel stretching the picture, now I know what they mean. If the show isn't HD I just watch it with the black bars on the side. The stretching pixelates the picture too much for me, especially with the directv picture, you can really see the results of their compression when you stretch the picture.

Well I finally did it this weekend. I went out an got a nice 50 "Sony LCD Rear Projection TV.
I bought a set of $9 rabbit ears, and when I went home the TV found all of the HD channels without a problem. So far I have been very happy with the TV and the local HD channels. My favorite is the PBS HD channel. Looking through this thread, I always wondered what people were complaining about when they talked about the ABC channel stretching the picture, now I know what they mean. If the show isn't HD I just watch it with the black bars on the side. The stretching pixelates the picture too much for me, especially with the directv picture, you can really see the results of their compression when you stretch the picture.what store did you buy the antenna at and what exact antenna was it? I may get directv AND cable in hd IF I can pull in the locals with directv.

what store did you buy the antenna at and what exact antenna was it? I may get directv AND cable in hd IF I can pull in the locals with directv.
Got the antenna with the TV at RC Wiley. The antenna is a cheapo pioneer rabbit ears, you know like those ones that used to come for free with a TV.
IMO the digital OTA stations are of better quality than the DirecTV locals since you don't have the compression.
DirecTV has an antenna that they will install (next to your dish) and configure for you for $50. I ordered an HDTivo and I figured that I would get the antenna from them too, so that my picture will be more reliable.

It has been my experience that the dish mounted TV is not any better than the rabbit ears. Your best bet, if the rabbit ears do not work, will be to mount your generic radio shack antenna in the attic. That has worked very well for a couple of my friends.


Got the antenna with the TV at RC Wiley. The antenna is a cheapo pioneer rabbit ears, you know like those ones that used to come for free with a TV.
IMO the digital OTA stations are of better quality than the DirecTV locals since you don't have the compression.
DirecTV has an antenna that they will install (next to your dish) and configure for you for $50. I ordered an HDTivo and I figured that I would get the antenna from them too, so that my picture will be more reliable.

I also noticed the picture of the DVR unit they advertised in that flyer and it didn't look at all like the 8300. I wonder if its an old pic ( i dont remember what the 8000 looked like) or if its a new DVR box they are coming out with but not in this market yet?

Well, I dont know if that pic was the new box or not, but I just read an article on the AVS front page (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=606064) that said:

"Not to be outdone, Scientific-Atlanta plans to release its own combined DVR-DVD recorder by the end of this year. But as with other DVD recorders, there are limitations. Some programs are digitally tagged so they cannot be transferred onto discs. Others can be copied only once onto a DVD or, in some cases, can be copied multiple times"

I was wondering if there is anyone on these boards that could give me a hand with my OTA antenna? It's up on my roof and it's not giving me a good signal anymore. I'm not very good when it comes to the antennas. So if someone has the time please PM me.

GVC - Re the SA box
I saw the DVD Recorder STB and Home Media Center option STB as well as the Multiroom DVR's from SA at last January's CES show. Funny thing was, the Voom people across the aisle were "announcing" a multi room DVR and Home Media Center as an upcoming STB, but pure vaporware to a large audiance. SA actually had working units right there to look at and see how they worked, but hardly anyone showed any interest. Instead they were more interested in the vapoeware.
SA has been stonewalled with DRM controls on their upcoming STB's. Things like how the DVD can be used and where, as well as who's responsible for content on a leased Home Media Center STB when it comes from a users PC... Trials are continuing in small areas, but they are not getting the approval they need to go further yet. Hopefully the DVD recorder is making political progress.

Westlife,
Sorry to not be able to help much, but has the wind moved your antenna? is it still pointing toward Black Mountain/ Henderson? Is there a SPECIFIC issue with reception, or are all stations no coming in?

vegggas

I will wait for either a Blue-Ray or HD-DVD format recorder to become available to the public. The less I have to do with Scientific Atlanta, the better I like it.
I have been archiving HD broadcasts (in SD) with the use of a standard DVD recorder for quite a while now. Yes, I miss the HD picture on those recordings. But in this case I will wait for a Denon, or Sony, or some such reliable manufacturer. In my view SA is NOT a reliable manufacturer.

I have my TV connected to the SA 8300HD via the HDMI connection and I feed my DVD recorder from the S-Video, analogue audio outputs on the SA box. This enables me to be recording a second program on the SA box while both watching and archiving the program I select. I prefer this arrangement, because if you use the "Copy to VCR" function (even when using a DVD recorder in place of a VCR), you cannot watch the program while simultaneously recording it.

I have a Silver Sensor and a MANT510 Phillips powered antenna. These feed my hungry HDTV Wonder card. I'm over on Boulder and Russell, an apt complex, 89015.

With mediocre to no signal strength on most of my channels, I've bought a 2 output 24db philips amp from Wal-Mart to try and help my cause. I get great signal strength on a couple, like WB and one of the spanish ones. Fox1 and 2 come in great from time to time.

With and without the amp, I get the exact same signal strengths, using both antennas. For example, I can not get CBS over 50-60%.

Most of the cabling im using is fresh out of their packaging, either from the antennas or leftovers from a cable instal.

Any suggestions?

Elstevo, I went ahead and ran an antennaweb query for you. At you location/building type(apartment) an medium outdoor directional antenna is recommended.

* red - vhf KVBC-DT 3.1 NBC LAS VEGAS NV 218° 2.5 2
* red - vhf KVVU-DT 5.1 FOX Henderson / Las Vegas NV 206° 2.7 9
* red - vhf KTNV-DT 13.1 ABC LAS VEGAS NV 200° 7.2 12
* red - vhf KLVX-DT 10.1 PBS LAS VEGAS NV 217° 2.7 11
* red - uhf KVWB-DT 22.1 WB LAS VEGAS NV 217° 2.6 22
* red - uhf KFBT-DT 33.1 IND LAS VEGAS NV 217° 2.6 29
* red - vhf KLAS-DT 8.1 CBS LAS VEGAS NV 201° 7.2 7
* red - uhf KBLR-DT 40.1 TEL PARADISE NV 219° 2.5 40
* red - uhf KINC-DT 16.1 UNI LAS VEGAS NV 201° 7.2 16

Which means if i dont have access to put any kind of antenna up (apt faces N, ground floor so no throwing something on a pole and having it peek over the roof) nothing short of a room sized nuclear powered indoor antenna will 'do it' for me right?

:(

Elstevo, yup, Cox is pretty much your only option, but at least you get the WB which is the only local HD they don't carry.

KINC is now multicasting USDTV which opens up the possibility of KVWB delivering full bandwidth WB HD!

Which means if i dont have access to put any kind of antenna up (apt faces N, ground floor so no throwing something on a pole and having it peek over the roof) nothing short of a room sized nuclear powered indoor antenna will 'do it' for me right?

:(

What are you using to receive the SD stations?
Have you spoken to your landlord about this problem?
Unless you are madly in-love with your apartment, I suggest moving to a better location for TV reception. I know that I would. And I have.
Before I rent an apartment, I always make sure that it has an un-obstructed southern facing patio which enables me to install Direct TV if necessary. And it WAS necessary in my last two apts. But DirectV doesn't provide me with the HD stations I desire, so I have a Cox HD box as well. Sometimes ONLY expensive solutions will do. And that may be the situation you're in.

wow..no posts in over a week.. all must be well in las vegas land !! :cool:

Rumor is that the new MPEG4 DTV HD boxes will be made by LG! :)
If this is the case and the DVR HD boxes are also LG, and COX does not release the MR units and or reduce the prices for additional boxes/outlets, it looks like I'll go back to DTV with the current HDTIVO and hope for a free or cheap upgrade to the LG HD boxes when released.

Competition is a great thing, isn't it?

Nothing much going on, but I'm a bit more optimistic KTUD will go HD after the analog cutoff because it looks like DirecTV is getting a SD digital feed (fiber) from them now.

Nothing much going on, but I'm a bit more optimistic KTUD will go HD after the analog cutoff because it looks like DirecTV is getting a SD digital feed (fiber) from them now.
That will be a long wait...
Only one station will avoid the expensive and sometimes frustrating process of changing to a new format. KTUD-TV, Channel 25, the UPN affiliate, is not affected by the changeover because it is a low-power station and is not required to broadcast in digital. There are no FCC requests or NAB files alluding to ever providing a digital signal, much less an HD signal.
Also. that must be some Loooooong fiber feed! lol! :p There is no digital feed, especially a fiber feed to DirecTV.
Actually, they are probably taking the analog feed and transcoding through a PC and sending it over the internet for DirecTV's offices.

vegggas
edit - addition
FCC Application list for KTUD (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=10264) from mid 1990's through Nov 7th 2005, where an application was made to the FCC for :
Voluntary Transfer of Control
From: THE SUSAN GREENSPUN FINE FAMILY TRUST
To: JONATHAN FINE LEGACY TRUST
No digital roadmap ever filed.
v

That will be a long wait...
There are no FCC requests or NAB files alluding to ever providing a digital signal, much less an HD signal.
Also. that must be some Loooooong fiber feed! lol! :p There is no digital feed, especially a fiber feed to DirecTV.
Actually, they are probably taking the analog feed and transcoding through a PC and sending it over the internet for DirecTV's offices.

vegggas

Well KTUD was off DirecTV for several hours with a technical screen and when it came back up it was much clearer and the line 21 captions were no longer visible in the mpeg signal (DirecTV still passes along captions in their format). I'm not arguing that they have the equipment to broadcast a digital signal anytime soon, but I'm fairly confident their link to the DirecTV broadcast center has been much improved and that there are characteristics of that improvement that indicate they are getting a digital signal. Didn't KVBC had a similar arrangement with Cox where they sent them a SD digital fiber feed before they had their HD equipment?

Yes, KVBC had a fiber feed to Cox before they transmitted OTA signals, but they already had their digital infrastructure in place (and FCC applications), but needed more time to get the high power transmitter working. KTUD has NOTHING for digital broadcast. The absence of the line 21 captioning sounds EXACTLY like the thing that would happen if you feed the analog signal from a monitor through a tuner card in a PC and sent that signal over the web to another location. This was probably the backup method for loss of main signal (OTA to local antenna & reciever then uplinked to D*'s distribution center for grooming) via other means.

vegggas

Yes, KVBC had a fiber feed to Cox before they transmitted OTA signals, but they already had their digital infrastructure in place (and FCC applications), but needed more time to get the high power transmitter working. KTUD has NOTHING for digital broadcast. The absence of the line 21 captioning sounds EXACTLY like the thing that would happen if you feed the analog signal from a monitor through a tuner card in a PC and sent that signal over the web to another location. This was probably the backup method for loss of main signal (OTA to local antenna & reciever then uplinked to D*'s distribution center for grooming) via other means.

vegggas

vegggas, well can we sign up the other channels to use the same backup method? Even if it's a kludge it ended up looking a lot better than the other DirecTV locals.

Can someone with a HD8300 box confirm that the switched outlet is always on, reguardless of the settings in the settings menu???

Thanks, Eddie

Not really a reply, but was wondering if anyone has heard if SA will ever enable the usb/firewire port on the front of the 8300HD box. While it will be nice to burn to DVD as discussed earlier, I would really love to be able to move shows to my computer to archive and watch when I am bored on a show site. Any ideas?

Not really a reply, but was wondering if anyone has heard if SA will ever enable the usb/firewire port on the front of the 8300HD box. While it will be nice to burn to DVD as discussed earlier, I would really love to be able to move shows to my computer to archive and watch when I am bored on a show site. Any ideas?
The USB connector is for the Web Keyboards when using the STB as a gateway modem and TV internet. There is no compatibility with any other products or communication protocols. Forget moving shows to your PC. There may be some limited availability to use firewire to an HDCP enabled device (i.e. a D-VHS and not a PC), but there will be no way to "Move" programs off the STB.
The Home Media Center STB and DVD Burner STB are in testing to offer those options, but the DRM of buning DVD's is being shot down by the movie studios. This means that only shows with rights managment and HDCP turned on AND distinct flags to allow copy freely will be allowed to be copied again. The DVR is the first generation copy, so shows marked copy one generation must remain on the DVR.
There is a whole thread dedicated to archiving through the firewire with the 3250 and testing with the 8300. So far, there are no windows compliant drivers for the 8300, and there is some success with MAC systems on cable co's without HDCP turned on yet. I would discuss those items over there and not in this thread.
vegggas

The USB connector is for the Web Keyboards when using the STB as a gateway modem and TV internet. There is no compatibility with any other products or communication protocols.


So , the 8300 has a cable modem inside?

Vegggas, is the home media center stb being tested in Vegas? Either way, do we have an ETA on its general availability to the market?


The USB connector is for the Web Keyboards when using the STB as a gateway modem and TV internet. There is no compatibility with any other products or communication protocols. Forget moving shows to your PC. There may be some limited availability to use firewire to an HDCP enabled device (i.e. a D-VHS and not a PC), but there will be no way to "Move" programs off the STB.
The Home Media Center STB and DVD Burner STB are in testing to offer those options, but the DRM of buning DVD's is being shot down by the movie studios. This means that only shows with rights managment and HDCP turned on AND distinct flags to allow copy freely will be allowed to be copied again. The DVR is the first generation copy, so shows marked copy one generation must remain on the DVR.
There is a whole thread dedicated to archiving through the firewire with the 3250 and testing with the 8300. So far, there are no windows compliant drivers for the 8300, and there is some success with MAC systems on cable co's without HDCP turned on yet. I would discuss those items over there and not in this thread.
vegggas

Vegggas, is the home media center stb being tested in Vegas? Either way, do we have an ETA on its general availability to the market?
No testing here in Vegas. No ETA either. The hardware is thought to be finished, but the DRM agreements the studios want is hindering progress for all manufacturers.
The multiroom units may be here later this winter or spring, but I have no timelines yet.

The 8300, and all other digital STB's are two way devices that can support a web portal and browser. The biggest problem is the 640x480 graphics chipset that basically renders a WebTV experience pretty hard to use and the limited viewing rights and no scripting. Think about surfing the web with the IPG and then consider how bad most websites would look or how hard they would be to navigate. Most, if not almost all cable co's, won't even bother to buy the software and hardware needed to operate this feature, cause it's not very good.

vegggas

Hi all,

I just moved to the area and am need of a complete QAM HD listing for Cox. Here's what I have so far:

FOX KVVU - 5.1
CBS KLAS - 8.1
NBC KVBC - 102.5
PBS KLVX - 103.2

I have been unable to locate true HD QAM listings for ABC, UPN, or the WB. I have only found the stretch-o-vision equivalent for ABC. Would someone please post a complete list of Cox Las Vegas QAM HD channels?

Thanks!

Hi all,

I just moved to the area and am need of a complete QAM HD listing for Cox. Here's what I have so far:

FOX KVVU - 5.1
CBS KLAS - 8.1
NBC KVBC - 102.5
PBS KLVX - 103.2

I have been unable to locate true HD QAM listings for ABC, UPN, or the WB. I have only found the stretch-o-vision equivalent for ABC. Would someone please post a complete list of Cox Las Vegas QAM HD channels?

Thanks!

The strecth-o-vision ABC is their hd channel, there refuse to show 4:3 programming in the proper aspect ratio despite endless complaints. Cox doesn't carry WB HD, it's OTA only. UPN HD isn't a possibility until 2009 unless an affialiation change occurs because KTUD is a class A that doesn't get a digital channel (and some people would say they'd be too cheap to buy the equipment anyways).

Thanks for the reply. What about ABC's OTA equivalent? Is that "normal" HD? According to Antennaweb, ABC and WB both have OTA HD channels...

Ditto, what Georger said...
Welcome to the forum! We are very active around here, so go ahead and ask questions. You can also use the "Search this thread" shortcut in the upper right corner of the page to find specific information that we have discussed around here before.
Just wanted to note that the QAM modulated signals seem to have correct PSIP info for remapping Fox and CBS to their OTA equivelents, but the PSIP info is stripped for the other local channels. I've asked Cox about this and they said it was the way they get the singals and it doesn't really matter to them because they remap the info for the STB's anyway.
There are a lot of other HD QAM channels, but they are all encrypted and require a digital subscription and a STB or Cable Card to view them.

vegggas
edit:
ABC stretch-o-vision IS the OTA signal. Cox only retransmits the OTA signals, there is no processing done on them. WB is demading a fee from every subscriber, to carry their HD-lite signal, which they share with USDTV. Not gonna happen any time soon.
v

Nothing really worth watching on WB for us, so no loss here.

Vegggas, thanks for the info on the MR unit. I might not switch so soon after all. We acquired a HD LCD for the kids and have a 3250HD attached to it. The problem is they keep watching on the 42" plasma because thats where the 8300HD is (full of cartoons)!

Yes, they are spoiled!

BTW, the LCD is a Syntax 26HVX and the 3250HD works perfect with it using component. SD looks better than on the plasma and we usually do a "zoom" on the 4:3 SD channels and don't really miss a lot because the LCD does no overscanning to begin with.

The viewable picture ends up looking at the right aspect ratio and the overscan seems to be about the same the old boob tubes used to display.

Yea I wished they'd pass along that PSIP data for the rest of the channels - my TV automatically remaps the HD channels back down in sequence (4, 5, 5-1, 6, 7, 8, 8-1, 9...). Calling customer support wouldnt do any good (they dont know what PSIP stands for), so we're stuck.

Hey Veggas............. I need an Expert here...............

I read through the HDMI link on your signature, but it does not really answer my issues....

I am in the mode to purchase a receiver that does HDMI switching..., but I have run into what appears to be a serious problem.

Today I was speaking to one of the regional service reps for Panasonic that was telling me about the problems he is hearing about with folks trying to feed an HDMI display from an HDMI source (in this case an HDTivo) through a Denon 3806 HDMI switching receiver. He said the person reporting the problem could feed his Tivo directly to the display with no issues... however the minute he inserted the Denon in the chain he could not get an image to the display.

This evening I was over at my brothers house who has the new Yamaha RX-V2600 HDMI switching receiver... he reported exactly the same issue with the signal coming from his Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD-DVR!

Then when doing some research on the JVC RX-D702 HDMI switching receiver I read reports of exactly the same results on the JVC as was being exhibited by both the Denon and the Yamaha.

Okay what the blue blazes is going on here...?? Is this Hollywood copy protection gone wild?

The only thing I can see is that the HDMI switching receivers are not passing along the HDCP handshake such that the source knows that the display is HDCP compliant and that they can all play nice together!

So if this is the case......... is there a way to solve this problem ?

If not, why in the heck bother to buy an HDMI switching receiver when it will not work with the HDMI equipped HD sources that you want to switch????

I would sure like some further light and knowledge on this one!!!!

Veggas just to update this a bit... I have since conversed with individuals (receiver forum) that have the Yamaha 2600 being fed from an HD-Tivo and output to an HDCP compliant display with no issues at all... So is this all on a "case-by-case" basis... sometimes it works... sometimes it don't??

The answer is to purchase an HDTV with MORE THAN ONE HDMI input. Thus negating entirely the need for a "switcher"..
I know that the latest SONY, Mitsubishi, Samsung and Panasonic models all have at least two or three such inputs.

The idea should be to make your equipment follow "your song and dance", with a MINIMUM of switching and a MINIMUM of outboard supporting devices.. And no matter how high its quality, introducing a "switcher: into the circuit MUST degrade the picture in some way.

All front projectors only have a single HDMI or DVI input........

HDMI is tricky right now. Version 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, etc.
One of the biggest problems plaguing HDMI is the handshake between devices. The supposed correct sequence is:
[programmng mode=on]
1) Turn on the display to it's trusted HDMI input
2) Turn on the trusted source device and it immediately asks display if it's trustworthy.
a) If immediate video response = trustworthy, then send trusted video content
b) If immediate video response = no response (display =off) or untrustworthy, then send no video.
3) Bit set to no HDCP compliance
4) Reset all devices, scenario repeats.

Adding a switcher is problematic.
1) It can either be passive or active
a) Passive adds length and resistance to signal = more of a problem getting handshake to and from the display device.
b) Active adds an HDCP repeater to the chain = Most Early HDMI devices will NOT authenticate through a chained device. Handshake has to come from display.
[programmng mode=off]

The biggest influences seem to be cable impedance (length and clean connections) through passive switchers with too long of a cable or extra insertion points drop the signal voltage too low to be recognized as valid signal from EITHER END. This will be a case by case problem where the display variances will effect the recieve and send parameters and a .05 volt will either cause a pass or fail on the same make and model display or STB (got oxidation?). At least the "Specs" are all the same, but the actual measurements are vastly different from each individual device connected.
HDCP repeaters are usually not allowed, especially with hardware over 6 months old.
For the 8000/8300, I believe the component outputs are just as good as the digital outputs and the digital out may be derived from the analog scaler. Any percieved differences would be in the scaler used in the display wether the digital input signal scales better than the analog input scaler.

Confused? So is the movie industry. Get ready for HDMI versio 2.0 with a new connector type... Did you read the link in the first post of that thread?
If you are considering an HD-DVD format and want HDMI switching - WAIT until you actually have a player and need it. Those will have the tightest HDCP restrictions and may require diffrent equipment.

Word, with multiple HDMI inputs, the source device still has to be off when you switch to it so that it can initiate a handshake with the display. Forget what a DVD player does, it only negotiates a resolution with the display until it starts a movie. The content is only 480i on the DVD, so it's not really affected by HDCP handshake.

vegggas

HDMI is tricky right now.

I can ascertain that. Sometimes I have to unplug my tv to get it to handshake.

So Veggas............

Does the SA8300 ever turn "off?" I know with my HD-Tivo it is always "on" and video is always being sent out the HDMI (unless you unplug the Tivo)... only the display turns on and off (or a receiver if you had a receiver with an HDMI switch built in). How does this work with the 8300...? If it never really turns "off" like the Tivo then you would have to have your display on when you first boot up the 8300 and then never turn the display off so it would continue to keep the handshake.

Or does the 8300 have the capability of turning the video output "on/off" as some older PVR's (Dish & ReplayTV come to mind) accomplish the same request for a handshake?

If so, then my brother should be able to make sure his tv is on first and tuned to the appropriate input before turning "on" the video from the 8300... and then the handshake would occur...

Is this how it will work?

Well Veggas... et al:

Apparently the 8300 does have an on/off button... so we turned the 8300 off, had the receiver off, and the tv off.

Turned TV on.. HDMI input selected.
Turned Receiver (RX-V2600) on HDMI #1 selected.
Turned 8300 on.

Image in TV says... HDMI/DVI input blocked push cancel to continue...

pushed....

Next message "your HDTV does not support HDCP use the Y, pB, Pr connections.

My brother's TV definately does support HDCP and if you run the HDMI cable straight from the 8300 to the TV it works fine... but by adding the receiver the handshake is blocked... oh yeah, he is also using very high quality cables and they are only 8' long.

The 8300 (HDMI Ver 1.0) does not support HDMI repeaters, like the receiver's switch.
Also, HDCP devices attempt to re-initiate the handshake, unless there is an absense of a "sense" signal fom the display. You will see some displays with the HDCP error message for about 5 seconds after turn on, then go away and work correctly after that. Again, there is no hard or fast rule, sometimes it works and other times it won't.

Just curious, when connecting straight to the display, what happens when you turn the display off and on, or switch inputs? If it resyncs and displays correctly after a few seconds, thats a good sign for compatibility between the two devices. Maybe there's a firmware update to the receiver that changes HDMI switching from active to passive?

vegggas

Receiver was just released in the last month or so.. kinda doubt there would be a firmware update already, but I will tell my brother to check for that possability.

Also don't know about the display on/off with direct connection, but will pass that along for further study also..... stay tuned!

I've asked this before but I really didn't get any help...so I thought I'd ask again. I was wondering if there is anyone on these boards that could give me a hand with my OTA antenna? It's up on my roof and it's not giving me a good signal anymore. I'm not very good when it comes to the antennas. So if someone has the time please PM me. I'd really like to get my antenna working

I've asked this before but I really didn't get any help...so I thought I'd ask again. I was wondering if there is anyone on these boards that could give me a hand with my OTA antenna? It's up on my roof and it's not giving me a good signal anymore. I'm not very good when it comes to the antennas. So if someone has the time please PM me. I'd really like to get my antenna working

I am not being an ass but I charge 300 bucks per day as a day rate for anything AV related. It is what I do for a living, so I have to charge for it, I even charge close friends for things I know are going to take a couple of hours. Its one way I keep my free time to my self, and I have to do it because I also do alot of freelance work.

well that's 300 I don't have. I just thought there would be someone willing to give me a hand but I guess it all comes down to the green and greed. It's ok I'll just look else where

well that's 300 I don't have. I just thought there would be someone willing to give me a hand but I guess it all comes down to the green and greed. It's ok I'll just look else where

And there you have it! I guess he volunteers for a living.

And there you have it! I guess he volunteers for a living.


Exactly Eddie I have been down that road, and it will eat your life away. Im sure many here in different lines of work have seen it, oh could you give me a hand changing ny brakes, ok sure, next thing you know that friend is calling his mech friend every weekend to fix something on his car. The first time the friend says no I cant this week, then he is seen as the azzhat. I charge because people know this is what I do for a living, I have had friends want to work out barter deals but you always get the short end of the stick it seems on those.Its not greed or green its what I do for a living I am sorry he doesnt understand that.

I understand...I just thought someone would be would be willing to give me a hand on something I don't know how to fix. I don't think it would take 2 hours..more like 10 mins or so if that someone knew what they were doing. It's Christmas and so where is that Christmas spirit? If you don't wanna help just say no....I don't need to hear your life story.

I understand...I just thought someone would be would be willing to give me a hand on something I don't know how to fix. I don't think it would take 2 hours..more like 10 mins or so if that someone knew what they were doing. It's Christmas and so where is that Christmas spirit? If you don't wanna help just say no....I don't need to hear your life story.

Well lets try to help you. Give us a complete run down of your setup. Are u trying to pull in HD or standars? What is your location? Give us as much info as possible and maybe we can do this for you.

Craig/MLK area I'm trying to get all my locals for HD....WB, FOX, CBS, ABC, PBS, NBC. I have Dish Network. I have 2 dishs...one pointed at 61.5 and the other for 110/119 The roof-top antenna I have was supplyed by USDTV when I had them at the begining of 2004. As for anything else I don't know the rest of the step up because this out of my league. TVs, DVD players, DTS, DD this I know but the rest nada LOL

You can contact me here DarkCarnivalle@aol.com

~Brian

The first question is always have you checked the cable coming from the ant to the TV? Is it ok? Are the connectors still tite and good?If u follow the cable from the ant what is the path it takes ie does it go right to the TV or thru any splitters? What exactly is not happening reception wise? Snow? Tiles looking picture?

Well on my one HDTV I get snow and my other one with the built in tuner get's nothing in at all... yeah the connectors should be tight enough. The antenna is a Winguard or something like that

Antennaweb.org will tell you compass orientation on where to point your antenna

I even charge close friends for things I know are going to take a couple of hoursSome friend

Antennaweb.org will tell you compass orientation on where to point your antenna

I have it facing Black Mountain and still get nothing but snow on one TV and nothing on the other....I just think it would be better if someone saw it for themselves and tell me what's wrong

Do you have any signal meters on your TVs?

Well the one is HDTV ready so I have to go through the 811 Reciever and my other HDTV has a built in meter

and how much signal are you getting on 2,7,9,11, and 12?

anywhere from 0-49 on the channels

Does anyone else get an annoying intermittent crackle sound on the PBS HD (10-1) channel. It doesn't seem like a reception problem, I think it's PBS's problem.

Some friend

Well I don't have a clue what you do for a living but when I have my days or eves off the last thing I want to do is anything having to with the install of AV gear or sound equipment. You have no idea what type of friend I am or what I do to help my friends.

Does anyone else get an annoying intermittent crackle sound on the PBS HD (10-1) channel. It doesn't seem like a reception problem, I think it's PBS's problem.

yes noticed this last night.

Does anyone else get an annoying intermittent crackle sound on the PBS HD (10-1) channel. It doesn't seem like a reception problem, I think it's PBS's problem.

This problem has been present for months (at least since 9/2004, when I first purchased my HDTV). It's not only present on 10.-1, but on 731 as provided by Cox Cable.) You would think that Cox would get on PBSs back about it. Fugettaboutit!! No Way!!!.

Just get used to it. Neither PBS or Cox apparently gives a damn about it. This problem is MOST annoying during musical presentations. I contacted KLVX to complain about it and they say they can't hear such a problem, and deny that it is there.

Does anyone else get an annoying intermittent crackle sound on the PBS HD (10-1) channel. It doesn't seem like a reception problem, I think it's PBS's problem.

really bugs me too

Well at least it's good to know that it isn't my reception. The other annoying pop/crackle I get is on 13-1 ABC when they are showing a national HD-Feed and they switch over to the local commercials in stretch-o-vision. It sounds like it could damage my soundsystem.

Something changed for the better in the KVWB HD signal path. There's no longer a relatively large black space at the bottom of my screen (my lcd has no overscan when connected by dvi so it bugged me a bit) and the audio no longer pops (if you remember back to when they first went hd they had a lip sync problem -- it was solved but their solution caused the audio to pop every few minutes). I wish I had a dvr so I could be sure, but subjectively the picture quality seems improved.

Their signal is stronger too. I can pick them much easier now. Didn't watch much, but noticed a lot of pixelation on fast moving scenes. Steady scenes were ok, but as soon as the camera moved... I'll check it out more tomorrow to see how it holds up...

vegggas

Has anyone messed around with the Hauppauge Card and the "PC - PVR?"

Looks pretty neat for a new project to play with.

Has anyone messed around with the Hauppauge Card and the "PC - PVR?"

Looks pretty neat for a new project to play with.
I used the SD version as an S-Video input to my HTPC for scaling (d-scaler) the SD cable channels to a higher native resolution and barely noticeable stretching. That worked out great. I used the PVR functions, but they seemed more limited than my Replay DVR's, so I didn't bother after a while. Once the HTPC had a serious crash, I got the cable HD DVR and have not gone back. The SD CAN look better using this PVR method, but my time and effort seemed to great to keep up. Besides, the WAF was not getting any better :o The new PC-PVR softwqare package coming out with ReplayTV software sounds good though...
If you are talking about an HD version, then I'm not familiar with these.

vegggas

I have the PVR-250 and SageTV ver 2. It works well and have had few problems since the initial set -up. I'm thinking about the HD solution and dropping the cable box. Don't subscribe to premium channels anyway. I enjoy getting mine working and like the PQ.

I was wondering if any of you guys live around Anthem Highlands. With a silver sensor on a US Digital 2010 I can only get the 2 spanish channels in. I think its channels 17-1 and 17-2, I get almost full signal with them. I tried a set of bunny ears and it can pull in channel 8 which is CBS I think. I was wondering if you guys have any ideas before I break down and mount an outdoor antenna on my roof. I've already checked out antennaweb and it says most of the channels I want are in the Red. Thanks.

You need to make sure your using a VHF antenna. Unlike most places here in Vegas most of the HD channels are on the VHF band not UHF.

I was wondering if any of you guys live around Anthem Highlands. With a silver sensor on a US Digital 2010 I can only get the 2 spanish channels in. I think its channels 17-1 and 17-2, I get almost full signal with them. I tried a set of bunny ears and it can pull in channel 8 which is CBS I think. I was wondering if you guys have any ideas before I break down and mount an outdoor antenna on my roof. I've already checked out antennaweb and it says most of the channels I want are in the Red. Thanks.
Your recption might be blocked by the mountains. Most of the HD transmitter towers are on Black Mountain to your east. If you look at the mountains to your east and don't see a bunch of antennas antennas on any of them, that could be your problem.

I'll see if I got a line of sight to black mountain. Can you guys also recommend some indoor and outdoor VHF antenna's. I've looked at the antenna sticky but I was wondering if you guys had any recommendations for the Vegas area. Thanks.

So, after trying to find an HD show on the WB for a week of hit or miss attempts, I finally stumbled onto Smallville from 8 - 9 PM tonight, and now Supernatural.
First, What's with the friggin logo in the 4x3 area of the 16x9 screen??? Seeing the WB logo with wording such as "Special Presentation" to the left puts the wording starting smack in the middle of the screen. UGGGH! Asolutely WORST bug placement I've ever seen. For those with the Cable DVR, the PIP window would cover most or all of the logo, with the wording showing in left and center.
I'm getting a decent Dolby Digital signal for the audio, but the overall picture seems a bit dark. This could be the nature of these shows, cause I don't watch them though. Smallville was tinted a bit reddish, but nothing popped out or seemed dramatic. Supernatural, so far looks FLAT with muted colors. Other than that, the PQ looks better than last time I viewed it (last year?). There seems to be less pixelation than before, but still evident on fast moving scenes. Something else doesn't quite look right, but I can't put my finger on it...

vegggas

I'm getting a decent Dolby Digital signal for the audio, but the overall picture seems a bit dark. This could be the nature of these shows, cause I don't watch them though.
vegggas

Having everything dark is the latest rage with TV shows and even movies. Someone in Hollywood figured out that you can save lots of money on sets and setting up scenery if you just shoot it in the dark. Whenever I watch one of these dark shows I fall asleep.

Having everything dark is the latest rage with TV shows and even movies. Someone in Hollywood figured out that you can save lots of money on sets and setting up scenery if you just shoot it in the dark. Whenever I watch one of these dark shows I fall asleep.

Have you forgotten that their are both contrast and brightness controls on your TV (and remote)? Overcoming such problems is what they are there for.

Simply make note of their settings before any applied correction. When the "dark" program is concluded return them to their original settings. Doesn't seem very complex to me.

Have you forgotten that their are both contrast and brightness controls on your TV (and remote)? Overcoming such problems is what they are there for.

Simply make note of their settings before any applied correction. When the "dark" program is concluded return them to their original settings. Doesn't seem very complex to me.
So if the picture was always all red or all green, would you always adjust the tint for one channel or even one show?
I think that what Word M would do (WWWMD?) is call the station and complain.
Contrast was somewhat ok, but the levels for these shows were pretty far off for brightness. By turning up the brightness, the entire picture gets washed out, blacks are gone, detail is lost and whites are oversaturated. You might as well watch NTSC Standard Definition.

vegggas

Have you forgotten that their are both contrast and brightness controls on your TV (and remote)? Overcoming such problems is what they are there for.

Simply make note of their settings before any applied correction. When the "dark" program is concluded return them to their original settings. Doesn't seem very complex to me.

Is that the nob in the middle or on the left?

Have you forgotten that their are both contrast and brightness controls on your TV (and remote)? Overcoming such problems is what they are there for.

Simply make note of their settings before any applied correction. When the "dark" program is concluded return them to their original settings. Doesn't seem very complex to me.
Dude if the black isnt black enough for instanse u cant make it blacker, etc..

Is WB on Cox or just OTA? If so, what channel (QAM)?

Have you forgotten that their are both contrast and brightness controls on your TV (and remote)? Overcoming such problems is what they are there for.

Simply make note of their settings before any applied correction. When the "dark" program is concluded return them to their original settings. Doesn't seem very complex to me.

Cool! I didn't know "their" was a way to turn night into day by just adjusting the brightness.

Is WB on Cox or just OTA? If so, what channel (QAM)?
WB SD is on Cox channel 12. The HDlite channel is OTA only.
The semi-short story is that this channel is owned by Sinclair and they want a fee from EVERY Cox subscriber (since they are included in the BASIC package) to carry the HD feed, even though they do not offer full bitrate HD. They sold a large chunk of their spectrum to USDTV the OTA cable service that leeches off local channels DTV signals, leaving them with a much lower bitrate. They are also asking for their entire DTV signal to be broadcast, including all the subchannels used by USDTV and will not seperate the signals between the two.
In the past, there have been a lot of problems with the stability of this channel, but it now appears that it's starting to at least have a stable signal. Now, if they actually had more hours of HD programming, they might get a few viewers. I think they are up to 6 - 8 hours of HD programming per week now.

vegggas

vegggas, sorry if this has been asked before, but do you work for Cox or are you close to someone who does? You sure seem to have a lot of information on the inner goings ons there.

I have 2 VOOM boxs for sale if anyone is interested you can contact me at DarkCarnivalle@aol.com

Happy New Year to all. I thought I would post my thoughts on the local and national New Years Eve shows that I saw. I watched ABC HD pre show stuff and thought it looked pretty good. Then, back to stretch-vision for the Vegas show. The coverage was good but of course the picture sucked. Channel 8 had a much nicer 4:3 picture and cleaner audio, but I did not care for the music selections, but then to each their own on that one. Then I went back to 13 for the ABC show and they botched that one by forgetting to switch to the HD feed. So, what looked great earlier was destroyed by fuzzy stretch-o-vision that could have looked beautiful. Way to go channel 13.

Even their news sucks. 8 is way better in every respect.

What I really hate is 13's news bias, they always have to have their liitle minute gestures and voice inflections when reporting religious or political news.

Not to mention the stupidest news and weather anchors. Lets not even talk about rusted 33 now!

vegggas, sorry if this has been asked before, but do you work for Cox or are you close to someone who does? You sure seem to have a lot of information on the inner goings ons there.
I do PPV, VOD and in-room services in hotel gaming markets in Las Vegas and around the country, and focus mostly on digital and HD technologies. These affiliations include Cox (Las Vegas market), Comcast, Time Warner, and DirecTV, etc. to fill in the needed free to the guest content and other High speed data services and anything else the customer wants.
I also have many contacts with many different display manufacturers and test compatibility between displays, STB's and VOD systems, etc. Some of these contacts are through current events and some are through past jobs and careers involved with consumer electronics and home theater design and engineering.
I TRY and attempt to be unbiased as much as possible, but with a close affiliation to Cox in my home market and over 75% of my business, I tend to lean more in that direction. I have also personally given up other technologies (DirecTV, Tivo, Replay, HTPC, etc.) in favor of the products available locally through Cox that just make it much more simple to get what I want.

vegggas

vegggas, cool. If only the casinos would hire you to get all those zillion hdtvs they have on the casino bars/sports book to actually have the games in hd.

vegggas, cool. If only the casinos would hire you to get all those zillion hdtvs they have on the casino bars/sports book to actually have the games in hd.
Those are seperate contracts with seperate rules and regulations. For the same reasons (and others), we can't show the sportsbook feeds in rooms either. Actually many bars are external of the hotel property management and are seperate entities too.
I forgot to mention that since the current cabling plant model in a hotel is similar to a small city, we have many things in common with cable companies. We share many of the same problems and solutions to overcome some of the issues. Everyone is looking forward to advances in technology to make a better presentation.

vegggas

Hello everyone. this is my first post. If i do/say anything stupid please put me in my place.

im in NW Vegas near the 95 and Durango. I want to get Direct tv asap but i have a few questions.

1. HD Tivo is a priority. can it work with no active phone lines in the house?

2. Is now a bad time to buy/start a contract with new mpeg 4 boxes out or comming out soon?

3. is there a date or guarantee when Dtv will add all the locals to our market? for now i have a winegard square shooter. SS-1000 i think or SS-2000. its the non amplified one.

4. Since hd locals via OTA are important for now, should i use my Square shooter? or i heard for 50$ dtv wil supply/install some kind of wavy looking off air antenna.

thanks in advance for any help i may get

Hello everyone. this is my first post. If i do/say anything stupid please put me in my place.

Well... You did name yourself TURD... :o Welcome to the forum, we could always use some turds around here... This type of post could go on and on and on...


im in NW Vegas near the 95 and Durango. I want to get Direct tv asap but i have a few questions.

1. HD Tivo is a priority. can it work with no active phone lines in the house?

2. Is now a bad time to buy/start a contract with new mpeg 4 boxes out or comming out soon?

3. is there a date or guarantee when Dtv will add all the locals to our market? for now i have a winegard square shooter. SS-1000 i think or SS-2000. its the non amplified one.

4. Since hd locals via OTA are important for now, should i use my Square shooter? or i heard for 50$ dtv wil supply/install some kind of wavy looking off air antenna.

thanks in advance for any help i may get

AFAIK, Vegas HD locals are not slated for launch timeframes yet, but rumor says it's possible near the end of 2006. Hopefully CES announcements will tell us more.
I would check antennaweb.org for antenna selection and details. In the NorthWest, you may have trouble getting some channels, due to the distance/antenna/tuner selections. Compare your zipcode to one in Henderson, Like 89014 to see the difference.
My opinion is to wait a few days if you need to purchase hardware. CES will flood these forums with announcements and advice. A few days wait could save you a lot of Money. After that, re-evaluate your plans.
There are a few others here that specifically live near you and can give better advice for antennas. There are also others that are specifically watching what D* and E* are doing in the short and long term. There are also alternatives to sat, namely Cox, where you can get most of the locals with a basic subscription if you have a QAM tuner.

vegggas

hey thanks for the quick reply.

AFAIK ? whats that mean?

whats the deal with D* ? is there a reason for the secret code?

im not sure what E* is..?

and lastly im not quite sure what a QAM tuner is...

Cox cable really isnt an option, by the time i get all the channels i want and a hd tivo, would be more expensive.

hey thanks for the quick reply.

AFAIK ? whats that mean?
As Far As I Know, AFAIK means As Far As I Know...


whats the deal with D* ? is there a reason for the secret code?
im not sure what E* is..?
D* and E* are nearly universal shortnames for DirecTV and DishNetwork's Echostar system. D* is often used to not confuse shortend names like DTV, which could mean over the air Digital TV, or DirecTV, etc.


and lastly im not quite sure what a QAM tuner is...
QAM tuners are installed with ATSC tuners in new TV's. QAM is the modulation scheme used by cable companies for digital cable. With an HDTV with a QAM tuner, you can get basic cable service (~$8.00/month) and tune in all the local HD channels for free on every HDTV you have, instead of using an antenna.


Cox cable really isnt an option, by the time i get all the channels i want and a hd tivo, would be more expensive.
Forget the brainwashing. Do your own comparisons.
The local Cox cable has, IMO (In My Opinion) overall better quality and value than anything else available (subject to criticism from others, of course). This includes HD service without additional charges (unlike D*'s $10 package), locals (D* may get the "big 4" before the end of 2006), and Dual tuner HD-DVR's for $10/mo (with expandable external storage through eSATA port) that are future proofed because you don't have to buy them and can upgrade as technology changes. Also I'm not forced into, what is now, a two year contract with a Sat provider. From Cox, you could also add High Speed cable modem service, Digital Telephone service, and your cable and DVR service on your compatible Sprint cell phone by the end of summer.
Do some research before buying anything, and please don't just take my advice or anyone else as gospel. Form your own opinion, by doing your own research. Feel free to ask OPINIONS here in this forum, they are as wild and varying as you will get anywhere else, but these are your neighbors, in your community, who went through the same things.

vegggas

Cox cable really isnt an option, by the time i get all the channels i want and a hd tivo, would be more expensive.

Unless you must have WB HD, ESPN2HD, or Sunday Ticket, Cox looks like the best deal at the moment. It won't hurt to wait until the CES is over to see if DirecTV makes some crazy announcements (on the level of since we're in Las Vegas for CES we decided to put their HD locals up, the mpeg4 hd dvr is available tomorrow, or DirecTV 10 and 11 are twleve months ahead of schedule and will launch next Tuesday), but realistically I'd schedule a Cox install if they're available to you.

Yep, I want to echo the sentiment that Cox is not that bad an option. A friend of mine has the D* HD Tivo and I would rather use the Cox PVR. It is a much simpler and easier interface. Also, the HD Tivo can bog down when (I assume) the disc drive gets full. I was trying to get a "Season Pass" on my friend's Tivo and it took about 30-60 seconds for Tivo to process the command. This also happens on another friend's Tivo. IMO (In my opinion) unless you need the NFL Sunday Ticket (I have friends for that!), then Cox is a better choice.



Cox cable really isnt an option, by the time i get all the channels i want and a hd tivo, would be more expensive.

From the DirecTV news tidbits today, it sounds like only the top 36 markets are getting HD locals this time around. When they start the second group of HD locals, at a slower pace, they will re-evaluate markets and decide on a case by case basis. I think Las Vegas is ranked as DMA 48??
The HD-DVR was announced to not be available until mid-2006. If past performance is any indicator, look for it during the winter holidays of 2006.

more tomorrow

vegggas

From the DirecTV news tidbits today, it sounds like only the top 36 markets are getting HD locals this time around. When they start the second group of HD locals, at a slower pace, they will re-evaluate markets and decide on a case by case basis. I think Las Vegas is ranked as DMA 48??
The HD-DVR was announced to not be available until mid-2006. If past performance is any indicator, look for it during the winter holidays of 2006.

more tomorrow

vegggas


You have a PM. Thanks Steve

As Far As I Know, AFAIK means As Far As I Know...


D* and E* are nearly universal shortnames for DirecTV and DishNetwork's Echostar system. D* is often used to not confuse shortend names like DTV, which could mean over the air Digital TV, or DirecTV, etc.


QAM tuners are installed with ATSC tuners in new TV's. QAM is the modulation scheme used by cable companies for digital cable. With an HDTV with a QAM tuner, you can get basic cable service (~$8.00/month) and tune in all the local HD channels for free on every HDTV you have, instead of using an antenna.


Forget the brainwashing. Do your own comparisons.
The local Cox cable has, IMO (In My Opinion) overall better quality and value than anything else available (subject to criticism from others, of course). This includes HD service without additional charges (unlike D*'s $10 package), locals (D* may get the "big 4" before the end of 2006), and Dual tuner HD-DVR's for $10/mo (with expandable external storage through eSATA port) that are future proofed because you don't have to buy them and can upgrade as technology changes. Also I'm not forced into, what is now, a two year contract with a Sat provider. From Cox, you could also add High Speed cable modem service, Digital Telephone service, and your cable and DVR service on your compatible Sprint cell phone by the end of summer.
Do some research before buying anything, and please don't just take my advice or anyone else as gospel. Form your own opinion, by doing your own research. Feel free to ask OPINIONS here in this forum, they are as wild and varying as you will get anywhere else, but these are your neighbors, in your community, who went through the same things.

vegggas

Come on now. There are fees to get HD from Cox. Every television provider charges tons of fees for this that and the other (even for an access card). As far as I can tell the fees are very close if you want digital everywhere. If you like the TiVo interface go ahead and get the HD TiVo. It sounds like it will be at least a year before they get the vegas locals on the sat so your have to use an antenna for those. Then when the time comes Directv will replace the box with one that will work (maybe not all the features of the TiVo) who knows.

I personally hate Cox because I have had many outages with them (for some reason the connector from the street to my house always fails after we get a good rain) and rude customer support. If I could get hi speed internet from anyone else I would.

Come on now. There are fees to get HD from Cox. Every television provider charges tons of fees for this that and the other (even for an access card). As far as I can tell the fees are very close if you want digital everywhere.

Not Exactly,
If you have a QAM HD tuner intergrated in your TV you'll get local HD channels at no additional charge. I hooked up an HDTV for a friend with just the coax from the wall and it found all the local digital/HD channels. He only had expanded basic at the time. Of course if you want Premium HD there are minimal charges for a CableCard.

Lon

I was refering to vegggas' comment about HD costing extra on Directv, but not on Cox. Not only do you need a cablecard and a box but you also need the digital gateway to get HD (other then local channels).

My main point is there are $5 fees everywhere you look from every provider.

Way Off Topic:

I sent a PM to everyone that posted in this thread in the last 30 days or so but in the interest of wider distribution, I'll repost here:

The free AVS CES party is Friday Night, January 6th, 7:00 pm at the Sahara. Fellow local AVS'er "Gergg" and I were hoping to get interested Las Vegas/Henderson HT enthusiasts together for a low key "meet and greet" at 6:30 pm that night at the Sahara's Casbar Lounge. A chance to meet others here that enjoy audio, video and all things music and movies. Our goal is to perhaps start a series of casual meetings at member's homes if so inclined. If you are interested, PM me here or email me at f1stserve@yahoo.com - or just show up Friday night! Regards,

John

BTW - Don't get confused on the date. My first PM said Thursday, Jan 5th - WRONG!!! The party is Friday, January 6th, info here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=623261

I was refering to vegggas' comment about HD costing extra on Directv, but not on Cox. Not only do you need a cablecard and a box but you also need the digital gateway to get HD (other then local channels).

My main point is there are $5 fees everywhere you look from every provider.
My point is there are no additional fees associated with HD channels as there ARE with an HD tier that you have to pay $10 a month EXTRA for on DirecTV.
You HAVE to be a DirecTV subscriber AND HAVE to OWN the Correct Hardware, and HAVE to PAY an extra $10 per month no matter what choice of programming you already have to get HD channels.
An already existing Cox customer can recieve HD channels with NO ADDITIONAL fees. Simply tune in the channels. You HAVE to be a cable subscriber, just like DirecTV, and at least the HD locals are there in the clear to be viewed. There is no $10 a month fee to watch HD channels on top of what you already have. If you are a DIGITAL subscriber, that means you have digital service and digital STB, or Cable Card, then all other HD channels, like UHD, TNT, INHD, etc are included at NO extra charge. Again, there is NO $10 dollar fee on top of existing services.
Two customers with Identical DirecTV packages and equipment - One who WANTS HD channels HAS to pay an additional $10 to view the HD channels.
Two customers with Identical Cox Digital packages and equipment - One who WANTS HD channels DOES NOT HAVE TO PAY ANY ADDITIONAL FEE to view the HD channels - Period.
If you already own your QAM tuner, you can just pay the ~$8.91 BASIC service and tune in all local HD channels, which come across free and in the clear to any QAM tuner.

vegggas

Yes, the deal for HD is better with Cox than with DTV. But if you want to watch digital channels on multiple TV's, the deal is with DTV. Cox charges way too much to duplicate the channels on extra sets. Thats the only reason I might switch back to DTV or E if Cox does not get their act together with the MR system or fix the record to VCR feature.

The record to VCR feature was cool. I just recorded everything the kids watched and piped it to another TV. Now the quality of the picture sucks so bad I had to rent and pay for another box and outlet :(

If you're a Dish Network customer don't plan on getting local HD from them. They've posted their city list and Las Vegas didn't make the cut. (Suprisingly DMA #61 Tulsa? WTF did) http://www.satelliteguys.us/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/56/cat/502

Any word out of CES on new gadgets that would be nice to have? Does SA have a booth set up showing their Entertainment system "network thingee" (term of art).

I wonder if KVBC has/will be getting in the equipment to show Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune in HD.

I's rather see Merideth in HDTV! She is a Meridith I'd like to FunWith!

I wonder if KVBC has/will be getting in the equipment to show Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune in HD.

Jeopardy and WOF are in HD format? That's news to me. Cool.

I wonder if KVBC has/will be getting in the equipment to show Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune in HD.

I don't believe any special equipment is required over and above what they already have.

And if there was ever a waste of HD equipment it would be on those two shows.

Jeopardy is informative, mature and interesting, and would remain so with or without HD.
WOF is a joke. nothing can improve it, except removing it from the air. The reason it is so popular is because it is mindless and requires nothing in the way of intellectual information. The shouting, giggling, and demonstrating are idiotic
Notice if you will that ONLY "photogenic" people appear on that program. When's the last time you saw an older or (god forbid) a disabled person on that show? Don't you think THEY deserve a shot at the Wheel too? Ever see anybody in a wheelchair (young or old) on either of those shows? I NEVER have.

Jeopardy and WOF are in HD format? That's news to me. Cool.

They're going HD in the fall. It was announced at CES.

i have Cox digital and heard that i can get HD channels... is this true? if so, how do i do that? they gave me a digital box and said that in order to get HD channels, i have to subscribe to the HD programming for $10/mo and that includes an HD box.

I also have an antenna to get OTA-HD but rather than switching back and fourth, would rather get both from the cable box... is this possible?

I don't believe any special equipment is required over and above what they already have.

And if there was ever a waste of HD equipment it would be on those two shows.

Jeopardy is informative, mature and interesting, and would remain so with or without HD.
WOF is a joke. nothing can improve it, except removing it from the air. The reason it is so popular is because it is mindless and requires nothing in the way of intellectual information. The shouting, giggling, and demonstrating are idiotic
Notice if you will that ONLY "photogenic" people appear on that program. When's the last time you saw an older or (god forbid) a disabled person on that show? Don't you think THEY deserve a shot at the Wheel too? Ever see anybody in a wheelchair (young or old) on either of those shows? I NEVER have.

According to the University of California, San Francisco,* 1.6 million Americans utilize wheelchairs. With 3 contestents per game you should expect to see a wheelchair user every 60 shows or so. However, if you throw out the 65+ (if we accept your premise that they're not interested in elderly contestents) you're down to around 700 thousand wheelchair users which means statistically a wheelchair using contestent should only appear every 130 shows or so. Unless you're a religious viewer of games shows the chances of seeing a contestent in a wheel chair is about is good as winning with an unsuited 2-7 in Texas Hold-em.

* http://dsc.ucsf.edu/table.php?pub_id=1&section_id=1&table_id=1

i have Cox digital and heard that i can get HD channels... is this true? if so, how do i do that? they gave me a digital box and said that in order to get HD channels, i have to subscribe to the HD programming for $10/mo and that includes an HD box.

I also have an antenna to get OTA-HD but rather than switching back and fourth, would rather get both from the cable box... is this possible?


I think you are confusing terms. It can be difficult.
Analog channels- Ch2 - 74 I believe in the Cox cable system.
Digital Channels (not HDTV) are in the over 100 range. Sandard cable box required.
HDTV channels- In the seven hundred rage. HD cable box required. Although if you have a TV with a HD tunner that's hooked to cable you should be able to receive locally broadcast HD channels (or in some cases and antenna will work too).

Welcome to the forums!

Eddie

i have Cox digital and heard that i can get HD channels... is this true? if so, how do i do that? they gave me a digital box and said that in order to get HD channels, i have to subscribe to the HD programming for $10/mo and that includes an HD box.

I also have an antenna to get OTA-HD but rather than switching back and fourth, would rather get both from the cable box... is this possible?

If you already have a digital cable box and digital services, then the HD channels are there. if your TV has a QAM tuner, just plug it in, scan for channels, and enjoy all the locals. If you need to rent an HD cable box, and swap out your current box, it may be a few dollars more for the HD version, but there is no HD package. With digital service and an HD box, you get all non premium HD channels. HBO, Sho, Cinemax and Starz require subscriptions to those packages, but with an HD cable box over the SD box, the HD versions are included automatically. DVR's are SD or HD cable boxes. To enable the DVR recording service, there is a seperate, additional DVR fee to activate that service.
vegggas
edit to add to above post.
Analog channels are 2 through 99, except, with a digital box, locals on 3,5,8,13, etc are picked up via digital simulcast.
Digital channels are local simulcast and 100 through 999 (HD box required for 700 range)
Digital HD channels Anything in the 700 range (requires HD STB)
v

According to the University of California, San Francisco,* 1.6 million Americans utilize wheelchairs. With 3 contestents per game you should expect to see a wheelchair user every 60 shows or so. However, if you throw out the 65+ (if we accept your premise that they're not interested in elderly contestents) you're down to around 700 thousand wheelchair users which means statistically a wheelchair using contestent should only appear every 130 shows or so. Unless you're a religious viewer of games shows the chances of seeing a contestent in a wheel chair is about is good as winning with an unsuited 2-7 in Texas Hold-em.



Fine.

But you gave me a "statistical" answer to what is essentially a question of morality, conscience and fairness.

Seniors and the disabled should be the beneficiaries of something akin to the "Head Start" program, in order to qualify them as contestants.
I believe it's entirely the fault of the networks and the sponsors. They simply don't want to be associated with anything that isn't beautiful, handsome and almost perfect.

Shame on them!!

Fine.

But you gave me a "statistical" answer to what is essentially a question of morality, conscience and fairness.

Seniors and the disabled should be the beneficiaries of something akin to the "Head Start" program, in order to qualify them as contestants.
I believe it's entirely the fault of the networks and the sponsors. They simply don't want to be associated with anything that isn't beautiful, handsome and almost perfect.

Shame on them!!

Having known someone who tried to get on these shows it is a long and lengthy audition system that includes history math trivia questions to embark to the next level. WOF has a several years wait list and they always have old folks on and some really ugly folks as well.

Even fear factor had an old / ugly guy on a few weeks ago :D

Anybody else go to the AVS party last night?
No new tech from Sam, but it was weird to see LCD displays with the Runco name. Many of the bigger names were not there last night though...
I saw a few people hanging around the Casbah lounge, including three gentlemen sitting at the nearby slot machines. I saw a few others walking by, checking their watches, and moving along...

vegggas

Fine.

But you gave me a "statistical" answer to what is essentially a question of morality, conscience and fairness.

Seniors and the disabled should be the beneficiaries of something akin to the "Head Start" program, in order to qualify them as contestants.
I believe it's entirely the fault of the networks and the sponsors. They simply don't want to be associated with anything that isn't beautiful, handsome and almost perfect.

Shame on them!!


For someone that complained about forum users discussing cox internet on this forum, this discussion is way of topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fine.

But you gave me a "statistical" answer to what is essentially a question of morality, conscience and fairness.


My "morality, conscience, and fairness" dictates that disabled people should have the same chance to get on game shows that they can physically and mentally compete on as everyone else.

My "morality, conscience, and fairness" dictates that disabled people should have the same chance to get on game shows that they can physically and mentally compete on as everyone else.

Again....Fine!!

But they obviously don't

For someone that complained about forum users discussing cox internet on this forum, this discussion is way of topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"Wheel of Fortune" and "Jeopardy" are both entertainment TELEVISION programs aren't they??

Ergo, any content they may or may not present is appropriate fodder for discussion here.

"Wheel of Fortune" and "Jeopardy" are both entertainment TELEVISION programs aren't they??

Ergo, any content they may or may not present is appropriate fodder for discussion here.


The Dude Abides.

Local HDTV & Reception, not freaking crying because Wheel of Fortune does have disabled people on their shows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way my Internet connection is doing great!

i have Cox digital and heard that i can get HD channels... is this true? if so, how do i do that? they gave me a digital box and said that in order to get HD channels, i have to subscribe to the HD programming for $10/mo and that includes an HD box.

I also have an antenna to get OTA-HD but rather than switching back and fourth, would rather get both from the cable box... is this possible?

If you do hook your TV up to the line and you scan for channels, the HD channels are located around 102 and 103. I forget where PBS is exactly...

102: NBC HD, ABC HD
103: Fox HD, CBS HD
106 (I think): PBS HD

Again....Fine!!

But they obviously don't

Why did the American Foundation for the Blind give Jeopardy! an Access Award then? http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=28&TopicID=236&DocumentID=2339

Local HDTV & Reception, not freaking crying because Wheel of Fortune does have disabled people on their shows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way my Internet connection is doing great!

If Wheel of Fortune HAD disabled people on their shows, I wouldn't BE"freaking crying" about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really are a piece of work fasteddielv. You're so fast, you positively whiz by any sensible statement at all. I see from your profile that your line of work is "communications". With whom do you communicate? Possibly schoolyard bullies?

Back on track - Lets complain about NBC Weather Plus Multicasting here in Vegas right before the Olympics start. As if Fox's weather channel wasn't bad enough, NBC now say's ME TOO! At least Fox is broadcasting a 720p signal, which can have a bit of leeway compared to 1080i.
Can we expect to see even more macro blocking instead of crystal clear Olympic coverage this year.

Spank you very much NBC! It's Vegas - It's either really nice, really HOT, or a bit cool. What's the point of 24/7 weather taking away bandwidth for the 1080i signal?

vegggas

While at CES, I saw the first example of 2-way Cable-Card technology. In the Samsung booth, one of the new DLP TV's was showing the playoff game in HD on Channel 732 from Cox. No cable box!! When the rep would change the channel, the on-screen graphics looked very similiar to the SARA graphics output from the SA boxes that we all have. The ABC logo was next to the channel number with full program info.

Samsung was also showing new TV's with DVR's built-in. I'm not sure that I like the idea of that....but it was interesting.

Maybe Vegggas can shed some more light on the new technologies like 2-way Cable-Cards that will be coming soon.

Las Vegas NBC to go O&O?

According to this http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=9146 NBC Universal has bought a television station in Las Vegas. Does anybody know what station they bought and whether it's for NBC or Telemundo?

Las Vegas NBC to go O&O?

According to this http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=9146 NBC Universal has bought a television station in Las Vegas. Does anybody know what station they bought and whether it's for NBC or Telemundo?

The purchase was for Telemundo only. This from a MEDAIWEEK article on January 2nd:

Telemundo, NBC Universal's Spanish-language TV network, acquired KBLR, the Vegas Telemundo affiliate, from Summit Media LP in April for $32.1 million. KBLR produces local news at 6 p.m. weekdays.

Demodave, well perhaps they see Las Vegas as one of the markets for a duopoly opportunity and will try to purchase KVBC next.

While at CES, I saw the first example of 2-way Cable-Card technology. In the Samsung booth, one of the new DLP TV's was showing the playoff game in HD on Channel 732 from Cox. No cable box!! When the rep would change the channel, the on-screen graphics looked very similiar to the SARA graphics output from the SA boxes that we all have. The ABC logo was next to the channel number with full program info.

Samsung was also showing new TV's with DVR's built-in. I'm not sure that I like the idea of that....but it was interesting.

Maybe Vegggas can shed some more light on the new technologies like 2-way Cable-Cards that will be coming soon.
Does this mean Cox LV is setup for CC 2.0? SWEET! I'm waiting for the S3 HD TiVo later this year.... it is CC 2.0 compatible...

Oh and if you dont like the idea of a TV with a built in DVR and/or Media center, you probably wont like tomorrow (1/10).

Does this mean Cox LV is setup for CC 2.0? SWEET! I'm waiting for the S3 HD TiVo later this year.... it is CC 2.0 compatible...

Oh and if you dont like the idea of a TV with a built in DVR and/or Media center, you probably wont like tomorrow (1/10).
CC 2.0 is just two way communication, just like all current digital cable boxes with an IPG. It's up to the hardware in the home (TV or receiver) to send an authorized signal back to the headend to ask for data. At CES, you saw an example of this technology, much like Panasonic announced last year, but way before CC2.0 specs were even defined.
If you are waiting for the CC Tivo, consider this. Specs for CC 2.0 are not final yet, and are not expected to be final until at least the middle of the year, maybe later. Once final, manufacturers could start production. Tivo, may be available by xmas 2006, IF the specs are final, and IF there is a production run (who? where?) of Tivo's, and IF there is a production run of CC 2.0 cards by SA.

I don't know about NBC O&O of KVBC or Telemundo, but I thought NBC was adding WeatherPlus to all their O&O Affilifates. WeatherPlus, will be taking about 2.5Mbs out of our local affiliate's bandwidth for our programming.

vegggas

Current Las Vegas DTV subchannel list:

KVBC-DT (2)
3-1 NBC HD
3-2 NBC Weather Plus

KVVU-DT (9)
5-1 Fox HD
5-2 Fox 5 24/7 Weather

KLAS-DT (7)
8-1 CBS HD

KLVX-DT (11)
10-1 PBS HD
10-2 SD simulcast (different programming)
10-4 Education? (right now a CCSD conference is on)

KTNV-DT (12)
13-1 ABC HD
13-2 SD simulcast

KINC-DT (16)
15-1 Univision
15-2 Telefutura
99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
99-8 USDTV (TLC)

KVWB-DT (22)
21-1 WB HD
99-10 USDTV (Lifetime)
99-50 USDTV (Starz!)

KFBT-DT (29)
33-1 Gold 33 (independent)
99-1 USDTV (USDTV Guide)
99-2 USDTV (ESPN)
99-3 USDTV (ESPN2)
99-6 USDTV (Food Network)
99-9 USDTV (HGTV)

KBLR-DT (40)
39-1 Telemundo
99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
99-8 USDTV (TLC)
99-11 USDTV (Lifetime Movies Network)
99-12 USDTV (Fox News Channel)

Good work George! That will help a few people out.
I've randomly picked subchannels on DT 7 besides the main feed, but with no video feeds. I wonder if those are the place holders in use for things like March Madness, etc.


Other news - Non- HD. Those with Cox, check out the new VOD offerings. We are finally getting Howard Stern, Anime, WWE and other subscription VOD content (besides HBO, Cinemax, etc) and a complete update to Freezone content from every other provider that does VOD content. The Concert TV looks cool.
No mention of HD yet, but this is a start.

vegggas

Good work George! That will help a few people out.
I've randomly picked subchannels on DT 7 besides the main feed, but with no video feeds. I wonder if those are the place holders in use for things like March Madness, etc.

That's what I'm thinking, but I don't know if that will happen because DirecTV has their Mega March Madness package.

That's what I'm thinking, but I don't know if that will happen because DirecTV has their Mega March Madness package.
Every year, KLAS, provides Cox and locals with all the March Madness games free. I think the streams are there as placeholders, but they are not taking up much, if any usable bandwidth. The full streams go from the station to the Cox headend.
I'll see if I can pull some detailed pid stream info over the next few nights to see where the datarates are for each channel and subchannel you listed. I'll have to get the dust off some equipment, but I think it's managable. I might have to juryrig an antenna for some of the lower power stations, but I've got a few coathangers and testleads left.

vegggas

I wanted to put some averaged (3 minute) transport stream data info into GeorgeLV's earlier post.
Stream datarates are inserted on the left in RED.
This is to give you an idea of how much of a datarate you are getting, on an averaged 3 minute sample of a stations digital broadcast, and where all the bandwidth actually goes. Sample times were taken between 11:35PM and 12:30AM when Leno and Letterman were on their respective channels.
There are also a lot of other streams taking up small amounts of data on many stations, but it's insignificant.

Original listing from GeorgeLV:
Current Las Vegas DTV subchannel list:
With datarates added by vegggas

KVBC-DT (2)
15.4Mbps 3-1 NBC HD
3.4Mbps 3-2 NBC Weather Plus

KVVU-DT (9)
15.2Mbps 5-1 Fox HD
3.2Mbps 5-2 Fox 5 24/7 Weather

KLAS-DT (7)
17.2Mbps 8-1 CBS HD

KLVX-DT (11)
9.1Mbps 10-1 PBS HD
4.1Mbps 10-2 SD simulcast (different programming)
3.4Mbps 10-4 Education? (right now a CCSD conference is on)

KTNV-DT (12)
14.7Mbps 13-1 ABC HD
4.2Mbps 13-2 SD simulcast

KINC-DT (16)
3.1Mbps 15-1 Univision
3.0Mbps 15-2 Telefutura
2.0Mbps 99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
1.7Mbps 99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
2.1Mbps 99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
2.6Mbps 99-8 USDTV (TLC)

KVWB-DT (22)
11.4Mbps 21-1 WB HD
3.5Mbps 99-10 USDTV (Lifetime)
2.4Mbps 99-50 USDTV (Starz!)

KFBT-DT (29)
4.2Mbps 33-1 Gold 33 (independent)
1.8Mbps 99-1 USDTV (USDTV Guide)
3.7Mbps 99-2 USDTV (ESPN)
4.4Mbps 99-3 USDTV (ESPN2)
2.0Mbps 99-6 USDTV (Food Network)
2.6Mbps 99-9 USDTV (HGTV)

KBLR-DT (40)
3.3Mbps 39-1 Telemundo
2.5Mbps 99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
1.6Mbps 99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
2.8Mbps 99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
2.9Mbps 99-8 USDTV (TLC)
2.4Mbps 99-11 USDTV (Lifetime Movies Network)
3.0Mbps 99-12 USDTV (Fox News Channel)

Next, I want to take more samples, and then compare to the Cox cable line. I believe that at a given data rate supplied to Cox, there is usually MORE headroom on the QAM channel than via OTA, but the streams given are already reduced by the stations due to multicasting.

vegggas

KLVX-DT (11)
9.1Mbps 10-1 PBS HD
4.1Mbps 10-2 SD simulcast (different programming)
3.4Mbps 10-4 Education? (right now a CCSD conference is on)
vegggas

^^^ Why KLVX should never be used as a hd demo channel in stores.

Yeah but it is the only OTA station that broadcasts in HD the entire time the store is open.

Sometimes when my TV is scanning for channels it comes up with Starz and ESPN over the antenna, but if you go to the channel there is nothing there. What's up with that, is it some signals from a wireless cable service?

Sometimes when my TV is scanning for channels it comes up with Starz and ESPN over the antenna, but if you go to the channel there is nothing there. What's up with that, is it some signals from a wireless cable service?
Yeah, look at my (and GeorgeLV's) previous post. The KVWB, KINC, KFBT and KBLR are sellilng off a good portion of their bandwidth to USDTV. Leaving them with no or little option to ever broadcast HD. Worse, WB only has about 12Mbps of bandwidth to carry what's left of their HD lite signal.

vegggas

edit:
NBC has also now reduced their main signal down to about 15Mbps to allow for MORE macroblocking due to less bandwidth. Also resolveable detail has been significantly diminished, especially when watching programs like Leno and looking at the signs in the background.
v

The Concert TV looks cool.
No mention of HD yet, but this is a start.

vegggas

What sort of "Concerts" would those be?

Classical (Symphony and Opera)? Jazz? Rock? Big Bands? Rhythm and Blues?

What sort of "Concerts" would those be?

Classical (Symphony and Opera)? Jazz? Rock? Big Bands? Rhythm and Blues?
Ummm. Go check it out yourself... It varies...
I personally only viewed Joe Cocker, Moby and the 80's compilation footage (TOTO, Scorpions with the Philharmonic, and a Sebastian Bach performance this week). As content changes out, you might miss something one week - who knows. There's no way to list everything in all of the different categories.

While browsing the Discovery channel's VOD, I caught an episode of "Mythbusters". On History VOD, I checked out an Egyptian pyramid thing.
Also, HBO VOD has all the episodes of Sopranos from ep 14 - 39 right now and season recaps.
You could spend weeks searching through the content now.
To each his own though.

vegggas

Joe Cocker, Moby and 80s compilation footage are not my "cup of tea"

I'll pass, thank you.

Joe Cocker, Moby and 80s compilation footage are not my "cup of tea"

I'll pass, thank you.
And Symphany, Opera, and Big Band are not mine, hence the reason I didn't watch any of those things. :)

vegggas

is Cox getting MHD tonight or tomorrow?

is Cox getting MHD tonight or tomorrow?
There are already carriage agreements with Cox corporate and MTV for launch when the channel becomes available. Locally, it depends if the equipment is set up, and space is available.

vegggas
edit: The only currently advertised new channel coming up is the NBC weather 24/7 channel on February 15th. It's already up OTA and killing the primetime and latenight bandwidth. Nothing else is posted at this time.
v

Does anyone in the Las Vegas area have the 50" Vizio plasma from Costco working with the SA8300 DVR via HDMI. I am very interested in getting this plasma as it gotten good reviews. However, some have indicated that it has a handshake problem with some of the SA boxes (it seems like this could be area specific).

Also, any comments and/or other info on this plasma would be appreciated.....

Keith

Does anyone in the Las Vegas area have the 50" Vizio plasma from Costco working with the SA8300 DVR via HDMI. I am very interested in getting this plasma as it gotten good reviews. However, some have indicated that it has a handshake problem with some of the SA boxes (it seems like this could be area specific).

Also, any comments and/or other info on this plasma would be appreciated.....

Keith
My opinion, Stay away from HDMI with HDCP as long as possible - Use Component for now. Look at the link in my sig for HDMI issues from ALL Manufacturers with all source components utilizing HDCP handshaking (DVD Players are not the same and do not count). I'm currently working with a VOD vendor trying to incorporate HDMI into their products. The samples they are getting from TV manufacturers are all over the place - Some work, some sort of work, some work half the time, etc.

vegggas

Veggas, are there any issues with leaving the cable box on 24/7(updates, fireware etc.)? I've heard conflicting info.

Thanks, Eddie

Veggas, are there any issues with leaving the cable box on 24/7(updates, fireware etc.)? I've heard conflicting info.

Thanks, Eddie
Not really. Turning it off helps clear the memory, but it's not required. Much like a PC though, I will reboot or unplug it once in a while to reload the OS and clear out everything.
Cable co's like it better when the STB is off for firmware updates because there may be an issue with powering the STB back on or a possible lockup during reboot due to memory issues, etc. This sometimes results in calls because customers don't know why the picture is off or won't change channels, etc. A STB that's locked may require removing the power for a few moments, and many customers don't understand what that means and request a truck roll to fix it.


vegggas
edit: After saying all of that, I program my DVR's to power down every night, for a few minutes and then power up both tuners to a music channel. The music channels are not bufferable or recordable, so there is no Hard Drive activity during the day. All other STB's I usually leave alone though.
v

Does anyone in the Las Vegas area have the 50" Vizio plasma from Costco working with the SA8300 DVR via HDMI. I am very interested in getting this plasma as it gotten good reviews. However, some have indicated that it has a handshake problem with some of the SA boxes (it seems like this could be area specific).

Also, any comments and/or other info on this plasma would be appreciated.....

Keith
I'm very happy with a recent plasma purchase. The Zenith 50" can be had for $2999.99. 8000:1 contrast and a QAM tuner. It's seems to be the same LG set with a different logo plastered on the front.

Don't know anything about the Vizio (including price), but the Zenith can be found at BB and CC.

There is a ton of information to sift through, so I just wanted to clarify some things.

Foremost, I have a projection system for which I want to get HDTV, especially before the Super Bowl! I have DirecTv, but since the big game will be on a local channel, DTV does NOT broadcast local channels in HD (at least for Nevada).

So, I am forced to get an OTA. Now, how do I hook up the OTA to my projector? Don't I need a tuner? But will a non-HD DirecTv tuner work? Are there indoor OTA's with HDMI, DVI or Component outs??

Also, are there any recommondations for indoor OTA's? Or anyone that lives in Southern Highlands who has DirecTv & HD?

Thanks!

VegasVic...

If you want to display HD on your projector you need a receiver capable of decoding HD. Therefore your SD DTV receiver will not work.

You will need an HD DTV receiver that has OTA capability... personally I use the HD-Tivo and it works exceptionally well for me. It incorporates the OTA channels right into the normal guide where you can select to view them or record them.

Failing that there are several HD-OTA ATSC tuners out there... I personally don't have the model numbers handy, but there are several. These will allow you to receive OTA HD signals which they will then decode and send to your projector.

I have DirecTv, but since the big game will be on a local channel, DTV does NOT broadcast local channels in HD (at least for Nevada).



If THAT game is so important to you, move to Los Angeles where Direct TV DOES carry ABC in HD. Or get Cox Cable right here in Las Vegas.
And after the game, cancel your Cox service.

Or you can always go cable - no long term commitment and no large out of pocket initial costs.



VegasVic...

If you want to display HD on your projector you need a receiver capable of decoding HD. Therefore your SD DTV receiver will not work.

You will need an HD DTV receiver that has OTA capability... personally I use the HD-Tivo and it works exceptionally well for me. It incorporates the OTA channels right into the normal guide where you can select to view them or record them.

Failing that there are several HD-OTA ATSC tuners out there... I personally don't have the model numbers handy, but there are several. These will allow you to receive OTA HD signals which they will then decode and send to your projector.

Any thoughts on how screwed Greenspun Media is from the UPN/WB merger? Does anybody expect Cox and DirecTV to continue carrying KTUD? Can KTUD survive as an independent? At least next season we'll finally be able to see Everybody Hates Chris and Veronica Mars in KVWB HD-lite.

Any thoughts on how screwed Greenspun Media is from the UPN/WB merger? Does anybody expect Cox and DirecTV to continue carrying KTUD? Can KTUD survive as an independent? At least next season we'll finally be able to see Everybody Hates Chris and Veronica Mars in KVWB HD-lite.
I'm imagining about a 6" drywall screw. :D They deserve it anyway. It's a good thing there were NO contracts for carrying the HD-lite signal, as that would have royally screwed things up.
Now, combining both stations, they might even be able to command a shiny nickel per customer from a provider for a revenue stream instead of the $.50 they were demanding. Actually, they should just drop their analog signal and invoke the "must carry" rules to get anyone to even watch their signal.

vegggas

There is a ton of information to sift through, so I just wanted to clarify some things.

Foremost, I have a projection system for which I want to get HDTV, especially before the Super Bowl! I have DirecTv, but since the big game will be on a local channel, DTV does NOT broadcast local channels in HD (at least for Nevada).

So, I am forced to get an OTA. Now, how do I hook up the OTA to my projector? Don't I need a tuner? But will a non-HD DirecTv tuner work? Are there indoor OTA's with HDMI, DVI or Component outs??

Also, are there any recommondations for indoor OTA's? Or anyone that lives in Southern Highlands who has DirecTv & HD?

Thanks!
The HD signals in Southern Highlands via OTA are not bad as long as you are farther north than the golf course and not behind a mountain or house. Look out an Easterly window and see if you can see the TV towers (or Black Mountain) in Henderson. If not, you may have to get cable. I can get most HD-OTA with a coat hanger and an old HD-STB upstairs, but nothing downstairs. YMMV.
Southern Highlands is a newer development with new cable infrastructure and fiber everywhere. You should be close to a fiber node almost anywhere here, so signals are usually very good.

vegggas

Assuming Cox kicks KTUD off their system at the end of the season, can we expect that 6 mhz of bandwidth to bring us two more hd channels?

Not really. Turning it off helps clear the memory, but it's not required. Much like a PC though, I will reboot or unplug it once in a while to reload the OS and clear out everything.
Cable co's like it better when the STB is off for firmware updates because there may be an issue with powering the STB back on or a possible lockup during reboot due to memory issues, etc. This sometimes results in calls because customers don't know why the picture is off or won't change channels, etc. A STB that's locked may require removing the power for a few moments, and many customers don't understand what that means and request a truck roll to fix it.


vegggas
edit: After saying all of that, I program my DVR's to power down every night, for a few minutes and then power up both tuners to a music channel. The music channels are not bufferable or recordable, so there is no Hard Drive activity during the day. All other STB's I usually leave alone though.
v


Thanks Veggas, that clears it up.

Eddie

Assuming Cox kicks KTUD off their system at the end of the season, can we expect that 6 mhz of bandwidth to bring us two more hd channels?
Only if they cease all their OTA transmissions, and don't evoke the "Must Carry" rule for their digital signal. Any current analog re-transmit agreements would still be valid as long as the analog signal is still on the air and the contract is not up for review.
If KTUD actually wanted their digital signal over Cox, they have the power to get it carried by signing a "Must Carry" agreement for any single feed, either digital or analog, and then it HAS TO BE CARRIED by the cable system. Sinclair's issue is, if they ask for the "Must Carry" rule, which forces local cable co's to retransmit their signal, they can't ask for money in return for the retransmit rights.

vegggas

Only if they cease all their OTA transmissions, and don't evoke the "Must Carry" rule for their digital signal. Any current analog re-transmit agreements would still be valid as long as the analog signal is still on the air and the contract is not up for review.
If KTUD actually wanted their digital signal over Cox, they have the power to get it carried by signing a "Must Carry" agreement for any single feed, either digital or analog, and then it HAS TO BE CARRIED by the cable system. Sinclair's issue is, if they ask for the "Must Carry" rule, which forces local cable co's to retransmit their signal, they can't ask for money in return for the retransmit rights.

vegggas

vegggas, but KTUD-CA 25 doesn't have must-carry rights because they're a low power Class A station, right? Wouldn't Cox and DirecTV include language in their retransmit contracts that lets them renegotiate if they lose their UPN affiliation?

(Obviously Sinclair could invoke must-carry for KVWB-TV/DT 21, but I'm reasonable sure all the providers will be willing to go retranmit consent for the CW)

I was thinking of KVWB, not KTUD for the must carry rule - Ooops! My Bad.
As for KVWB-D getting rebroadcast, it will not be on DBS, when(if) the other locals are broadcast. It will not be on cable at the current prices either. The analog signal already has rebroadcast consent for both providers. Currently, neither channel has any programming in the top 100 on the ratings list, so it's not in high enough demand to get any monetary fees for their signal.
As for KTUD, who knows? Nobody can do anything until the September changeover, so we may have to wait until then. I doubt that local channel allocation will be removed from the analog tier of Cox to make room for anything else. As bandwidth is needed, select channels from the upper analog channels will have to go digital, such as the Game Show Network controversy last year where thousands petitioned to keep it on analog.

vegggas

Do keep in mind that a decision has not been reached yet as to who will get the new CW network in Las Vegas.

I was under the impression that the UPN affiliates would carry the new CW network and then the local Sinclair WB affiliate would be out in the cold.

Do keep in mind that a decision has not been reached yet as to who will get the new CW network in Las Vegas.

I was under the impression that the UPN affiliates would carry the new CW network and then the local Sinclair WB affiliate would be out in the cold.

Here's how it works. The Tribune O&O WBs and the CBS O&O UPNs will be converted into CWs automatically. Everywhere else the local UPNs and WBs will have to fight over who gets the affialition. Given that Sinclair has a full-power hd equiped WB station in KVWB while the KTUD UPN is a low power station that isn't even equiped for stereo the affialition is effectively Sinclair's to lose.

So what is the latest news about when DirecTV will put local HD stations on the air here? Someone told me 2007. Is this true?

Hmm, it looks like the nightly news over at KTNV is now being shown in 4:3 instead of the zoomed 14:9. Now they just need to show the rest of their programming the same respect and put an end to stretch-o-vision.

So is Vegas even gonna get CW........many will be mad if not. Smallville among others are very popular

So is Vegas even gonna get CW........many will be mad if not. Smallville among others are very popular

Unless Sinclair and Fox get together and start a new competing broadcast network, I'm about 99% certain that the CW will be on KVWB in HD next season.

I've been noticing very faint diagonal scan lines on some channels. It's not really that bad but I tend to notice if I am looking for it. and its more apparent on light colored scenes. Is this a Cox problem since I only notice it on a few channels, or should I start investigating my setup...equipment/cables?

I've been noticing very faint diagonal scan lines on some channels. It's not really that bad but I tend to notice if I am looking for it. and its more apparent on light colored scenes. Is this a Cox problem since I only notice it on a few channels, or should I start investigating my setup...equipment/cables?

Tell us what channels you are seeing these lines on so that we could give you a more informed answer.

well, I have now also noticed the diagonal moving lines ( smaller size )on my LCD computer screen. The cable modem has a separate cable run from the house cable box. So I figure the issue has something to do with the whole house electrical system or its a cable problem originating from the street?

well, I have now also noticed the diagonal moving lines ( smaller size )on my LCD computer screen. The cable modem has a separate cable run from the house cable box. So I figure the issue has something to do with the whole house electrical system or its a cable problem originating from the street?

I believe the technical term is ground looping. I notice it on my component connections as well so I just did the quick fix of using the dvi connection instead.

I read that Cox and the NFL Network signed an agreement a while back. What are the chances we'll get the HD channel here in time for the 2006 season?

Just a note, nothing from Cox for the 8300HD fixes, MR boxes or new HD channels. Feb 1 maybe the day I'll switch to Dish Network for the new 622 box with all the new HD channels. And I could pipe recorded shows to other sets with this one.

Just a note, nothing from Cox for the 8300HD fixes, MR boxes or new HD channels. Feb 1 maybe the day I'll switch to Dish Network for the new 622 box with all the new HD channels. And I could pipe recorded shows to other sets with this one.
What is this in reference to?
SA and cable systems are working on releasing DVR1.5 (see tips and tricks thread) that is being beta tested in some form on all of cablevision. If you just need a fix for Copy to VCR, that is available right now with some specifc download.
MR boxes are being tested locally, but Cox does not want to release the HD with SD streaming version until SA says that HD can be streamed correctly. Otherwise, why not just relase the DVD burner units instead later this year.
The mulit-cable MSO deal with Sprint takes affect this spring for content delivery over mobil devices. You can watch anything on your mobil device that you can watch at home, and do two-way com to program or playback your DVR.

vegggas

That is very nice! I can't count how many times I forgot to record something only to remember it driving to the restaurant/movie/sporting event.


How is the multi-room entertainment server coming along?




You can watch anything on your mobil device that you can watch at home, and do two-way com to program or playback your DVR.

vegggas

What is this in reference to?
SA and cable systems are working on releasing DVR1.5 (see tips and tricks thread) that is being beta tested in some form on all of cablevision. If you just need a fix for Copy to VCR, that is available right now with some specifc download.
MR boxes are being tested locally, but Cox does not want to release the HD with SD streaming version until SA says that HD can be streamed correctly. Otherwise, why not just relase the DVD burner units instead later this year.
The mulit-cable MSO deal with Sprint takes affect this spring for content delivery over mobil devices. You can watch anything on your mobil device that you can watch at home, and do two-way com to program or playback your DVR.

vegggas

Thanks,

I'll call Cox on the "some specific download" today. Nice to hear abot the MR boxes being tested and forking up $300 bucks to Dish just to lease their MPEG4 box may make me think twice from moving away from Cox.

Does Cox have any other (more up to date) HD boxes other than the 8300HD?

Or is that the best we can get right now?

OTA Question:
Im getting channels 5-1,8-1,10-1,13-1, but I cant get NBC 3-1. Is there anyway I can boost my signal to get this channel. I'm using the Terk TV44 which clips on to my D* dish. I like the antenna because it compact and good looking for my house. I just need a boost to get 3-1 NBC. BTW I saw Lost on 13-1 ABC last night in HD WOW.
Thanks!

OTA Question:
Im getting channels 5-1,8-1,10-1,13-1, but I cant get NBC 3-1. Is there anyway I can boost my signal to get this channel. I'm using the Terk TV44 which clips on to my D* dish. I like the antenna because it compact and good looking for my house. I just need a boost to get 3-1 NBC. BTW I saw Lost on 13-1 ABC last night in HD WOW.
Thanks!

The NBC signal is very difficult for some people to get OTA because it is on a very poor frequency assignment (low vhf channel 2) that is prone to interference problems. Furthermore, because of the long wavelength of channel 2, the optimal length of the antenna element is 2.5 meters! My suggestion is to ditch the clip on -- a real antenna in the attic or the garage that is pointed towards the broadcast towers is your best bet if you're looking to be unobtrusive.

Here's something I found over at KCBI's webpage regarding channel 2 reception issues for Damageplan.
---------------------------------------
Some Frequently Asked Questions

Q. I have rabbit ears on top of my set and I can receive some of the channels ok but your channel is not watchable.

A. Channel 2 is a low band frequency channel in the television spectrum. It often requires an outdoor antenna to pull in a good signal.


Q. I bought one of those amplified indoor antennas that are "guaranteed" to receive all channels and I still can't get your station.

A. Small indoor receiving antennas seldom work well on channel 2 and will never replace a good full sized outdoor antenna. A good quality outside receiving antenna will always provide you with a clearer picture, better color and cleaner sound. It will also go a long way to make your reception more immune to signal fading and most forms of interference


Q. My satellite provider installed a loop antenna that fits around my satellite dish . He told me that I would be able to receive all of the local stations on it but I can not receive your channel.

A. Again, none of the small shortcut schemes will produce as good a picture as a full sized conventional receiving antenna especially on the lower numbered channels.
---------------------------------------
http://www.kbcitv.com/x5865.xml

What is this Channel 2 business???

Isn't NBC Channel 3??

What is this Channel 2 business???

Isn't NBC Channel 3??

KVBC-TV (analog) is on vhf channel 3.
KVBC-DT (digital) is on vhf channel 2.

The digital standards contain protocols that allow the channel numbers to be remapped to their familar number.

For reference for anybody that is troubleshooting what's out there on OTA, I'll repost the list. (the subchannels prefixed USDTV require a USDTV receiver and subscription to view)
---------------------------

Current Las Vegas DTV subchannel list:
With datarates added by vegggas

KVBC-DT (2)
15.4Mbps 3-1 NBC HD
3.4Mbps 3-2 NBC Weather Plus

KVVU-DT (9)
15.2Mbps 5-1 Fox HD
3.2Mbps 5-2 Fox 5 24/7 Weather

KLAS-DT (7)
17.2Mbps 8-1 CBS HD

KLVX-DT (11)
9.1Mbps 10-1 PBS HD
4.1Mbps 10-2 SD simulcast (different programming)
3.4Mbps 10-4 Education? (right now a CCSD conference is on)

KTNV-DT (12)
14.7Mbps 13-1 ABC HD
4.2Mbps 13-2 SD simulcast

KINC-DT (16)
3.1Mbps 15-1 Univision
3.0Mbps 15-2 Telefutura
2.0Mbps 99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
1.7Mbps 99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
2.1Mbps 99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
2.6Mbps 99-8 USDTV (TLC)

KVWB-DT (22)
11.4Mbps 21-1 WB HD
3.5Mbps 99-10 USDTV (Lifetime)
2.4Mbps 99-50 USDTV (Starz!)

KFBT-DT (29)
4.2Mbps 33-1 Gold 33 (independent)
1.8Mbps 99-1 USDTV (USDTV Guide)
3.7Mbps 99-2 USDTV (ESPN)
4.4Mbps 99-3 USDTV (ESPN2)
2.0Mbps 99-6 USDTV (Food Network)
2.6Mbps 99-9 USDTV (HGTV)

KBLR-DT (40)
3.3Mbps 39-1 Telemundo
2.5Mbps 99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
1.6Mbps 99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
2.8Mbps 99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
2.9Mbps 99-8 USDTV (TLC)
2.4Mbps 99-11 USDTV (Lifetime Movies Network)
3.0Mbps 99-12 USDTV (Fox News Channel)

Hmmm....

regarding the QAM pickup of local HD on Cox w/ basic:

I get PBS & CBS HDs (11.1 & 8.1) but do not seem to get ABC & NBC. I try 129 (ABC D) but during LOST it didnt look to be HD. I used the autotune feature of my Pioneer Elite 50"

Any advice so I can watch the Seahawks in the Superbowl?

The NBC signal is very difficult for some people to get OTA because it is on a very poor frequency assignment (low vhf channel 2) that is prone to interference problems. Furthermore, because of the long wavelength of channel 2, the optimal length of the antenna element is 2.5 meters! My suggestion is to ditch the clip on -- a real antenna in the attic or the garage that is pointed towards the broadcast towers is your best bet if you're looking to be unobtrusive.

Thank You.
I'm very happy with the clip on because I receive all the major channels except for Channel 3 (freq. 2). and I dont think I am ready for a large antenna, maybe in the future.

However I am getting about a 25 peak signal from Freq 2. I know I need about a 45-60 range for a good picture. Is there anyway to boost my 25 to 45-60 without having to purchase and install a larger antenna? :rolleyes:

Hmmm....

regarding the QAM pickup of local HD on Cox w/ basic:

I get PBS & CBS HDs (11.1 & 8.1) but do not seem to get ABC & NBC. I try 129 (ABC D) but during LOST it didnt look to be HD. I used the autotune feature of my Pioneer Elite 50"

Any advice so I can watch the Seahawks in the Superbowl?
PBS and CBS share the 103 (.1 & .2) QAM. You are seeing the remapped PID stream data remapping channel 103 to virtual 11.1 and 8.1.
NBC and ABC use the 102 (.2 & .5) QAM, but without any remapped PID streams. Try checking channel 102 for the streams.
Fox is on the 106.3 QAM.

vegggas

As much as I enjoy all the great information posted by Veggas, I am not happy with Cox. I just signed up for lifeline service (2-17) from Cox. I was under the impression with this service I could lose my off air ant and get local HD via my QAM tuner in my TV. Is this correct? The rep who sold me this said so, and said it would be about $10.00 a month. Well today they ran my drop and plugged me in and I get my basic locals and 5-1, 8-1, and 11-1 HD. But I can't get 3, and 13 HD because they don't remap and you have to tune them in on 103.3 and 103.5 Most of us know this. Well because of the trap they installed on my drop, I can't get those two HD channels. It is of no use trying to explain this on the phone to anyone employed by Cox. They keep telling me I have to have expensive digital cable to get local HD. Will somebody please get on the right page!! If the remove the trap, I will get 3 and 13 HD. But then, I also get ch. 18-74, which they want to charge $40. for. What's up?

It's all there.
All local digital channels are on 102, 103, & 106 channel frequencies. What you are saying is that you can tune in 102, but not 103. There is something funky with your tuner.
The trap blocks mid frequencies, and does not affect those above 79. The remap is just a VIRTUAL remap of the PSIP information to represent the local analog stations call number. I can do this all day long with my test QAM tuner and there is nothing else needed.

vegggas
Edit to add:
CSR's don't know anything about home QAM tuners. They are referring to the fact that you would have to rent a cable STB, get it on a digital plan and use it to tune the channels. That is very similar to the service that LVThunder has, wheras he only wanted locals in HD, but didn't have his own tuner. He may chime in and add his personal experience, but he is using the same trap as you are.

v

I finally got a QAM tuner for my HTPC and can pick up HD locals and some other channels. Some (non local HD) have no audio. Does anyone know why the audio is muted on the higher QAM channels? I was thinking of going lifeline too for HD but maybe there is a problem with the filter now?

Instead Cox is working with Sprint(who I think is EVIL) to get DVR programs onto phones? How about DVR programs onto another set! How about a "Play to QAM" feature? Now thats a feature I would really love!

Not sure what "Play to Qam" would be.... All digital channels currently play from Qam modulated channels...
Cable companies (all major cable co's) are rolling out cable service via your Sprint cellphone, and other integrated services. You could bring up the IPG and playback any SD channel you get at home, or bring up your DVR to program, or playback a program. Neat stuff.
Your DVR will play on other STB's in you home with the multiroom STB (not available in LV yet - waiting for better HD streaming), and/or burn to disk with the MCP-100 multi-room unit coming this spring. I would bet they are waiting for the burner version over the basic multi-room unit anyway.

vegggas

Not sure what "Play to Qam" would be.... All digital channels currently play from Qam modulated channels...
Cable companies (all major cable co's) are rolling out cable service via your Sprint cellphone, and other integrated services. You could bring up the IPG and playback any SD channel you get at home, or bring up your DVR to program, or playback a program. Neat stuff.
Your DVR will play on other STB's in you home with the multiroom STB (not available in LV yet - waiting for better HD streaming), and/or burn to disk with the MCP-100 multi-room unit coming this spring. I would bet they are waiting for the burner version over the basic multi-room unit anyway.

vegggas

Play to Qam would be like record to VCR, playback any program on the list from the MR box to a certain QAM channel to the another room with a QAM tuner. This way we wont have to rent and pay for another box!

Or maybe it will work this way anyway with a MR box, we would just have to find out what channel the MR box is broadcasting at, then turn in the other box back to COX. Or will they find a way to break this?

Thank You.
I'm very happy with the clip on because I receive all the major channels except for Channel 3 (freq. 2). and I dont think I am ready for a large antenna, maybe in the future.

However I am getting about a 25 peak signal from Freq 2. I know I need about a 45-60 range for a good picture. Is there anyway to boost my 25 to 45-60 without having to purchase and install a larger antenna? :rolleyes:

No. All an amp will do is amplify the inteference and multipath reflections. Unless you have a real directional antenna it's pointless to boost the signal. You'd probably have better luck with rabbit ears.

--Here comes the science: http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html

Veggas, Thank-you very much for the info. That is exactly what I wanted to know ( what frequencies the trap blocks) So, I should be getting 103 and 106. Since I was so pissed off with the way CSRs handled things tonight I told them to cancel the whole ball of wax. I will try a rescan tonight and see what happens. FYI I have a Samsung HLR6768W 1080p DLP. Obviously with yours, and everyone elses experience, you know my tuner should pull in these channels in question. Film at eleven.