Wow, I've been gone for two weeks, and there is fertilizer evrywhere... I'm gonna have to take a few day to review some data and catch up.

vegggas
and here's VEGGASS...........
Welcolme back and thanks for update info in vegas.... now it is clear why we have been delayed on our upgrade path

I really have no idea what you are talking about here???
There are STB's, like the 3250, with firewire enabled. You can call cox and get the 8300 firewire ports enabled, but it may take a few calls to get the right people, but beware that it's a version that was not released due to customer complaints about other issues.
BTW,
1) Firewire is a compressed format
2) Other than a few speculated Blueray titles (check out their forums) there is no 1980P content sources, and nothing via firewire.
3) The next release of the 8300 has the firewire enabled already.

On other issues of your other posts -
Firewire 5c compliance is for recording of viewing content over firewire. Most people are upset that PC's are not compliant like D-VHS and direct connect firewire displays. Your display should be fine for direct viewing off firewire.

vegggas
Thanks.... that's perfect... that is all I wanted to do with it was use ome of firewire inputs for my hd firecamera imput.. front tv imput

rear firewire for 8300 viewing ..... my set has an output bak to analouge out...
3nd firewire - out to my present ILO/future ??? suppose to be bi-directional
will see .... firewire/1394a/1394b/ilink are all pretty sqirrelly on PC ... more stable on Mac...

Please excuse spelling as I sold my small 50" pc/tv monitor and am waiting for new 65" mitsu.... I can't see letters to even use spell checker on this tiny 32" Ilo walmart special..... The 1080P wiill be a big improvement as I can jack the text up 150% and surf from 10'

It's true for me, since qround the start of the year when I was able to get alternate versions of the software. It was only "Broke" for the single version that was stable that was used her in vegas and other markets. ANY different version, does not have the copy to VCR issue. SA was not even aware of the issue, since it was only seen in a single version, and cleared up in all subsequent versions. It's only sad that a different version has not been released to all users yet due to other issues.
If you NEED copy to VCR and don't want to use the live version of copying, call in to cox and ask for an alternate version that enables firewire.
vegggas

Will do...... :) I knew there must have been a reason why you did thou look upon the issue thusly.... :eek: OOOPppppPsss... sorry... I get like that after watching Deadwood :cool:

I really have no idea what you are talking about here???
There are STB's, like the 3250, with firewire enabled. You can call cox and get the 8300 firewire ports enabled, but it may take a few calls to get the right people, but beware that it's a version that was not released due to customer complaints about other issues.
BTW,
1) Firewire is a compressed format
2) Other than a few speculated Blueray titles (check out their forums) there is no 1980P content sources, and nothing via firewire.
3) The next release of the 8300 has the firewire enabled already.

On other issues of your other posts -
Firewire 5c compliance is for recording of viewing content over firewire. Most people are upset that PC's are not compliant like D-VHS and direct connect firewire displays. Your display should be fine for direct viewing off firewire.

vegggas

So its the HDCP for firewire.... my front jack on the mitsu is camera device programed and the back jacks are set as someother... but maybe intercangeable like I use hdmi and dvi, even when manufacture says this hdmi jack does not support computers... when it actuall does an awesome job compared to the 15pin analouge jack that they tell you to use.

The buzz I heard was MHD soon, along with another unknown HD channel (A&EHD ?), and the possibility of up to six HD's depending on contract negotiations by the end of fall/winter timeframe.


It's an open secret they HDNet and Cox are back at the negotiating table, so I wonder if ESPN2HD has become a negotiable topic for Cox. Considering that ESPN is taking their strongarm tactics futher than ever by trying to force your ISP to contract for ESPN360, I'm not too optimistic.

In case you haven't heard, ESPN now wants ISPs to pay a carriage fee for their internet content. If your ISP doesn't pay the ESPN ransom, you are locked out of the ESPN360 section of theit website. Even though many sports fans would gladly pay for this service ala carte, ESPN would much rather institute a precedent setting de facto content tax on all internet users.

Tenguru, The Vip 622 does not have firewire or SATA. The usb ports may be enabled in the future for storage.

Try: VIP22 INFO (http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/dishhd/offer/index.shtml)

for more info if you are interested. Good luck.

You know what? As annoying as foghorn's cheerleading for Dish Network has been, nobody else has given us anything to cheer for. Cox hasn't added any HD channels since TNT and UHD...last October. We have no idea if there's any hope for HDTV next season or ever on Sinclair's channels (KVMY 21/22 KVCW 33/29). We do know OTA is being further degraded by subchannels, Create on 10-3 and The Tube which is supposed to launch on KVMY 21-3 soon. 2006 has been a dark year for everyone not on Dish.

George, I know how you feel. Thats why I switched. I vote with my wallet. If everyone done so, things would get better all around. I invested a lot of $$ on HDTV. I'm getting my moneys worth with DISH HD.

How does voting with your wallet fix local providers that are multicasting away all the HD signal, or not even providing HD because of multicasting?
All the local channels are either multicasting or providing a sub-par data rate to support HD viewing now. This is the same signal they provide OTA, to Cox, DirecTV and Dish, so changing providers will not help local station viewing habits at all.

vegggas

How does voting with your wallet fix local providers that are multicasting away all the HD signal, or not even providing HD because of multicasting?
All the local channels are either multicasting or providing a sub-par data rate to support HD viewing now. This is the same signal they provide OTA, to Cox, DirecTV and Dish, so changing providers will not help local station viewing habits at all.

vegggas

KVBC was horrible on the Hall of Fame Game tonight. The multicasting of Weather Minus was obviously a part of it, but it seems a common misconfiguration of the Harris mpeg encoders by local stations makes it worse. If anyone has any contacts with KVBC engineering, could you ask them to take a look at their encoder settings?

While we're on the topic of local broadcasters, any news on KLAS going 5.1 any time soon?

The new sub-channel for The Tube is showing up on 21-3, no programming yet.

EDIT-video is up, still no audio. On a positive note, KVMY is still passing WB-HD.

The new sub-channel for The Tube is showing up on 21-3, no programming yet.

EDIT-video is up, still no audio. On a positive note, KVMY is still passing WB-HD.

Its off again now!

Just got my HR-10250 Installed.

its working "ok" at best

Hooked up Component to Kv-36XBR400 (HD Trinatron)

1. the Menu is SLOOOOOOW as Sh*t. is this normal? im used to my other D* boxes working almost instantly.

on this HD-TIVO it takes a good 3-4 seconds for the Guide to load the programming, please tell me this isnt normal..

2. What ever happened to just hitting Up/Down to see a small 1 Line channel guide at the bottom of the screen? Best feature ever.... My old Hughes E-86 had that. then the H20 had similar feature but u had to hit the blue button First...
Now this HD-TIVO has NOTHING.

3. It's connected to Vonage through COX high-speed. after failing to make the setup call 3-4x, it FINALLY made the call to get the local Numbers. then once it tried to call to setup, it failed like 8x more times.... FINALLY it got through and setup..

WTF.. Piece of Sh*t...


Hopefully u "Pro's" have some tips that can help me.

The 10-250 is a piece of s*. It's also obsolete. The new HR20, the mpeg4 replacement comes out new month. That model will receive the Las Vegas locals in HD via satelite when Direct launches them at the end of September. The model you have will not. Also the 10-250 has the same first generation off air tuner as the E86 which can't handle multipath at all. The HR20 has fifth generation tuner. I would take it back to the store you bought it from and wait a month. Sorry if I busted your bubble.

Just got my HR-10250 Installed.

its working "ok" at best

Hooked up Component to Kv-36XBR400 (HD Trinatron)

1. the Menu is SLOOOOOOW as Sh*t. is this normal? im used to my other D* boxes working almost instantly.

on this HD-TIVO it takes a good 3-4 seconds for the Guide to load the programming, please tell me this isnt normal..

2. What ever happened to just hitting Up/Down to see a small 1 Line channel guide at the bottom of the screen? Best feature ever.... My old Hughes E-86 had that. then the H20 had similar feature but u had to hit the blue button First...
Now this HD-TIVO has NOTHING.

3. It's connected to Vonage through COX high-speed. after failing to make the setup call 3-4x, it FINALLY made the call to get the local Numbers. then once it tried to call to setup, it failed like 8x more times.... FINALLY it got through and setup..

WTF.. Piece of Sh*t...


Hopefully u "Pro's" have some tips that can help me.

Sorry to hear that, but that problem has been known for a long time now. My VIP622 from Dish Network has no such problems. Its guide is very fast and widescreen too!

Vonage works transparently too. I can even use the VIP622 to view my Dish bill, order PPV and add channels using Vonage.

I had the SD DTIVO and had the same problems. There are no fixes and DTV keeps putting off the new HD DVR which are not Tivos. Wait and suffer and then still suffer or change providers.

The 10-250 is a piece of s*. It's also obsolete. The new HR20, the mpeg4 replacement comes out new month. That model will receive the Las Vegas locals in HD via satelite when Direct launches them at the end of September. The model you have will not. Also the 10-250 has the same first generation off air tuner as the E86 which can't handle multipath at all. The HR20 has fifth generation tuner. I would take it back to the store you bought it from and wait a month. Sorry if I busted your bubble.

Good luck if you thinks it coming out next month! I'm getting "the Tube" right now OTA with my VIP622, I wish the audio was piped in by now though :mad:

It's not that bad. Switch the guide to the Tivo style guide. If you just plugged it in for the first time it takes a while for all the databases to fill. I don't exactly remember where you change the style of the guide since I'm at work right now. There is talk on the HD Tivo forum of a software update that makes the menus faster. The SD Tivo's already have this update and it does make a big difference.

It's an open secret they HDNet and Cox are back at the negotiating table, so I wonder if ESPN2HD has become a negotiable topic for Cox. Considering that ESPN is taking their strongarm tactics futher than ever by trying to force your ISP to contract for ESPN360, I'm not too optimistic.

In case you haven't heard, ESPN now wants ISPs to pay a carriage fee for their internet content. If your ISP doesn't pay the ESPN ransom, you are locked out of the ESPN360 section of theit website. Even though many sports fans would gladly pay for this service ala carte, ESPN would much rather institute a precedent setting de facto content tax on all internet users.


YES...I am bummed that we cant access the ESPN 360 content !! With ESPN2HD, ESPNU available too, if your a sports fan using COX you're getting ripped off. not to mention CSTV (college sports television network) sports and cox just dont mix ...mabey its all the sportsbooks wanting you to come into their places to watch stuff you cant get on COX! Just like we'll never get a lottery here either! :mad:

To change to the Tivo style guide:

While in the guide, press the "Info" button
Arrow down to Style and change from "Grid Guide" to "List Guide"

Also (I know I'll take hits from Foghorn about this), there is a pending update for the HD-Tivo. It is expected that, by the end of August, the HD-Tivo will be upgraded to V 6.3. This will add folders to your "Now Playing List" and dramatically increase the guide speed as well as setting up recordings.

Now...back to the Foghorn loves Dish show.... :)

The Tube is now up with audio on KVMY 21.3

KVBC (RF2)
3-1 NBC HD (1080i DD5.1)
3-2 NBC Weather+ (480i)

KVVU (RF9)
5-1 Fox HD (720p DD5.1)
5-2 Fox 5 24/7 Weather (480i)

KLAS (RF7)
8-1 CBS HD (1080i)

KLVX (RF11)
10-1 PBS HD (1080i)
10-2 Local PBS SD (480i)
10-3 Create (480i)

KTNV (RF12)
13-1 ABC HD (720p DD5.1)
13-2 ABC SD (480i)

KINC (RF16)
15-1 Univision (480i)
15-2 Telefutura (480i)
99-4 Disney (USDTV)
99-5 Toon Disney (USDTV)
99-7 Discovery (USDTV)
99-8 TLC (USDTV)

KVMY (RF22)
21-1 My Network TV HD (1080i)
21-3 The Tube (480i)

KVCW (RF29)
33-1 CW (480i) *buggy on some receivers (DirecTV H10)*
99-1 USDTV Guide (USDTV)
99-2 ESPN (USDTV)
99-3 ESPN2 (USDTV)
99-6 Food Network (USDTV)
99-9 HGTV (USDTV)

KBLR (RF40)
39-1 Telemundo (480i)
99-11 Lifetime Movies (USDTV)
99-12 Fox News (USDTV)

BTW, does anybody know why the CW commercials are showing up on channel 21 now? Is Sinclair thinking of swapping the CW to 21 and My Network TV to 33? (It would make a lot more sense as most of the CW shows have been airing on 21 for years when it was the WB affialiate.)

There are more sub-channels on the main big 4 stations that you can't see right now. Once I get time (maybe next week?), I'll rework the datastreams and post screenshots of the carriers with their min, max, and average datarates and then add that to your post to show how the allocation is working.

Also, if CW moves it's carrier to 21, it will help since it has a few more bits to play with, but still be crippled when rates go anywhere near 12Mbps. If they use a national splicer system that already reduces the bitrate and compresses the signal, then it might work.

vegggas

Hey guys,

I thought I would check in, I haven't been in the Vegas group for a while after moving down to Phoenix. I feel a bit sad given that I was a Page 1er on this thread. I just thought I wouold let folks know that the grass isn't always greener. Cox Phoenix is well behind Cox Vegas. We don't even have VOD and probably won't for the foreseeable future. I actually miss Howard TV.

On an aside note, with all of the additional digital signals, aren't you guys afraid of scarce bandwidth. For example, the NBC Hall of Fame game had a notorious "blurring" problem that was pretty widespread. One of the theories was this was due to other NBC channels being "layered" over the HD feed. Don't know if this is correct, but I would rather have stronger HD, than a dedicated whether channel for each affiliate.

Take Care,

T

There are more sub-channels on the main big 4 stations that you can't see right now. Once I get time (maybe next week?), I'll rework the datastreams and post screenshots of the carriers with their min, max, and average datarates and then add that to your post to show how the allocation is working.

In particular, can you see if the datastream for KVCW is weird? I sent an email to Sinclair letting them know that you can't view 33-1 on DirecTV H10 receivers, but I never got a response. If the CW stays there, I'd still rather watch the marginal 4mbit SD OTA-lite feed than the 2mbit DirecTV LiL feed.

In particular, can you see if the datastream for KVCW is weird? I sent an email to Sinclair letting them know that you can't view 33-1 on DirecTV H10 receivers, but I never got a response. If the CW stays there, I'd still rather watch the marginal 4mbit SD OTA-lite feed than the 2mbit DirecTV LiL feed.
I don't have my antenna up at the moment, and the coat hanger I was using doesn't pull in some of the channels without performing aerobic yoga to get a stable signal. I've since given up actually viewing any OTA over the last year since I have HD-DVR's and I only missed WB's HD-lite. I wanted to set things up again for better (stable) testing and comparison purposes to make sure Cox is not compressing or altering the signal (btw, they don't).

vegggas

Hey guys,

I thought I would check in, I haven't been in the Vegas group for a while after moving down to Phoenix. I feel a bit sad given that I was a Page 1er on this thread. I just thought I wouold let folks know that the grass isn't always greener. Cox Phoenix is well behind Cox Vegas. We don't even have VOD and probably won't for the foreseeable future. I actually miss Howard TV.

On an aside note, with all of the additional digital signals, aren't you guys afraid of scarce bandwidth. For example, the NBC Hall of Fame game had a notorious "blurring" problem that was pretty widespread. One of the theories was this was due to other NBC channels being "layered" over the HD feed. Don't know if this is correct, but I would rather have stronger HD, than a dedicated whether channel for each affiliate.

Take Care,

T
I know what you mean. While traveling, I miss VOD too. Vegas is up to about 10,000 hours of content right now, and all the movie channels are showing early premeirs of movies exclusively on VOD weeks before it hits the main channel. I didn't like HBO's Lucky Louie at first, but got interested and watched the entire series the other day.
As for OTA, the bandwidth is falling to pieces here. I had recordings of Leno from a while back and you can easily see the detail and lettering on the backdrop that says ONE WILSHIRE and the other signs. Since about a year ago, or when the radar launched, the lettering is now more blurred due to high frequency rolloff and whatever they are doing that makes it blurry. Comparing the two, you can easily see the difference.

vegggas

KVBC (RF2)
3-1 NBC HD (1080i DD5.1)
3-2 NBC Weather+ (480i)

KVVU (RF9)
5-1 Fox HD (720p DD5.1)
5-2 Fox 5 24/7 Weather (480i)

KLAS (RF7)
8-1 CBS HD (1080i)

KLVX (RF11)
10-1 PBS HD (1080i)
10-2 Local PBS SD (480i)
10-3 Create (480i)

KTNV (RF12)
13-1 ABC HD (720p DD5.1)
13-2 ABC SD (480i)

KINC (RF16)
15-1 Univision (480i)
15-2 Telefutura (480i)
99-4 Disney (USDTV)
99-5 Toon Disney (USDTV)
99-7 Discovery (USDTV)
99-8 TLC (USDTV)

KVMY (RF22)
21-1 My Network TV HD (1080i)
21-3 The Tube (480i)
99-10 Lifetime (USDTV)
99-50 Starz! (USDTV)

KVCW (RF29)
33-1 CW (480i) *buggy on some receivers (DirecTV H10)*
99-1 USDTV Guide (USDTV)
99-2 ESPN (USDTV)
99-3 ESPN2 (USDTV)
99-6 Food Network (USDTV)
99-9 HGTV (USDTV)

KBLR (RF40)
39-1 Telemundo (480i)
99-11 Lifetime Movies (USDTV)
99-12 Fox News (USDTV)

I notice that I get audio on some of the USDTV channels with the VIP622 but not with the Olevia 42" HDTV. Anyone else get audio?

Any rumors on what will happen to USDTV? Maybe a satellite buyout like with VOOM?

I don't have my antenna up at the moment, and the coat hanger I was using doesn't pull in some of the channels without performing aerobic yoga to get a stable signal. I've since given up actually viewing any OTA over the last year since I have HD-DVR's and I only missed WB's HD-lite. I wanted to set things up again for better (stable) testing and comparison purposes to make sure Cox is not compressing or altering the signal (btw, they don't).

vegggas

KINC and KBLR are supposed to have gone full-power so they should be easier to pick up. I believe KVMY and KVCW are still on STA because Sinclair ammended their applications so their stations could share a tower.

Bad news for our favorite Dish Network cheerleader, HDNet Movies on E* has just gone HD-lite. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=709255

Bad news for our favorite Dish Network cheerleader, HDNet Movies on E* has just gone HD-lite. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=709255

Actually we have nothing but good news all the time! The HD-Lite thing is overblown. THe HD from all Dish channels far surpass cable and DTV in picture quality. Numbers are not everything and 99% of large screens used by subs dont go over 1080i, heck most are 1366x768!

At least we get HDnet, right now!

Now more good news! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Although not as good as HD NET, INHD has been uplinked to Dish's birds:

Good News for Dish Subs! (http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=73569)

Actually we have nothing but good news all the time! The HD-Lite thing is overblown. THe HD from all Dish channels far surpass cable and DTV in picture quality. Numbers are not everything and 99% of large screens used by subs dont go over 1080i, heck most are 1366x768!

At least we get HDnet, right now!

Now more good news! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Although not as good as HD NET, INHD has been uplinked to Dish's birds:

Good News for Dish Subs! (http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=73569)
The HD-Lite thing is not overblown. It's a proven fact that they re-encode, reduce the bitrate, and transmit at a lower resolution. They have to do this due to limited bandwidth. They are banking on doing even more compression by taking the Mpeg2 streams and recompressing them in Mpeg4.
I agree, it looks better than what D* is doing, but it's not without it's own faults, as mentioned in many threads.

vegggas
ps - My Tv scans natively at 1080i, as does all CRT based HDTV's.
v

Record the HDNet test pattern next Tuesday morning and see what you can resolve on the horizontal and vertical resolution scale.

vegggas

Good news everybody! KVMY has dropped their USDTV subchannels. Hopefully, KVCW will follow and Sinclair will deliver the CW in HD.

Record the HDNet test pattern next Tuesday morning and see what you can resolve on the horizontal and vertical resolution scale.

vegggas

Why, it still looks great and no one here can tell the difference.

Record the HDNet test pattern next Tuesday morning and see what you can resolve on the horizontal and vertical resolution scale.

Why, it still looks great and no one here can tell the difference.
Because you will see the difference and limitations. You are only fooling yourself, but if YOUR equipment is not up to the task of High Resolution HD content, then you're right - Why bother!

vegggas

Good news everybody! KVMY has dropped their USDTV subchannels. Hopefully, KVCW will follow and Sinclair will deliver the CW in HD.
Really! That is big news. I haven't had a chance to read any other threads, but I thought they had to freeze their services or keep it available until a buyout is complete and customers are given ample time to get new providers?
Now I may have to pull out the BIG coat hanger and check it out myself.

vegggas

edit - just found this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8182465&&#post8182465 from foxeng saying

From Doug Lung's RF Report

Date posted: 2006-08-10

USDTV Must Remain On-Air During Bankruptcy Proceeding

The Deseret Morning News reported last weekend that the Delaware judge handing the USDTV bankruptcy ruled that the organization must maintain service during the company's restructuring.
The article, "U.S. Digital must stay on-air through revamp," said the court appointed trustee is working with "potential investment groups to provide customer service until new owners are selected."

Really! That is big news. I haven't had a chance to read any other threads, but I thought they had to freeze their services or keep it available until a buyout is complete and customers are given ample time to get new providers?
Now I may have to pull out the BIG coat hanger and check it out myself.

vegggas


Well, in this one case, I appluad Sinclair's greed. If they aren't getting paid by USDTV, then USDTV shouldn't be suprised when they decide to replace their signal with a paying customer (The Tube).

Because you will see the difference and limitations. You are only fooling yourself, but if YOUR equipment is not up to the task of High Resolution HD content, then you're right - Why bother!

vegggas

But my equipment is. You are only fooling yourself when you look at numbers and test patterns and not real life moving pictures.

Attached are snapshots of three channels carrying USDTV.

The MYTV is having some weird problems and will not show any services. Within the channel though, are 4 streams. The primary is averaging 12Mbs and a second averaging 3.5 Mbps. The other two are not doing well at all and look like there is an overall problem with this broadcast. The USDTV channels do not seem to be transmitting correctly, although the carriers are there, but mostly empty.

KVCW (sideways due to forum attachment size limitations) shows a total of six carriers.

KINC also shows a total of six carriers.

vegggas

But my equipment is. You are only fooling yourself when you look at numbers and test patterns and not real life moving pictures.
No, trust me, I can actually see the difference, as many others can too.
If it's in a lower resolution, and you can see the lower resolution in the viewing of the content... :confused: To each their own... :rolleyes:
vegggas

Attached are snapshots of three channels carrying USDTV.

The MYTV is having some weird problems and will not show any services. Within the channel though, are 4 streams. The primary is averaging 12Mbs and a second averaging 3.5 Mbps. The other two are not doing well at all and look like there is an overall problem with this broadcast. The USDTV channels do not seem to be transmitting correctly, although the carriers are there, but mostly empty.

KVCW (sideways due to forum attachment size limitations) shows a total of six carriers.

KINC also shows a total of six carriers.

vegggas

Where are you seeing 4 subchannels in KVMY? I only see a 12mbit stream for WB HD video with 384kbit audio, a 3.5mbit stream for The Tube with 192kbit audio, and 3.3mbits of null packets.

I wonder why KVCW is glitchy with the DirecTV H10...their transport stream seems reasonable enough, especially when compared to the mess that is KVMY.

Where are you seeing 4 subchannels in KVMY? I only see a 12mbit stream for WB HD video with 384kbit audio, a 3.5mbit stream for The Tube with 192kbit audio, and 3.3mbits of null packets.

I wonder why KVCW is glitchy with the DirecTV H10...their transport stream seems reasonable enough, especially when compared to the mess that is KVMY.
Yep, your right. I looked too fast and dug too deep into trying to get a lock on the transport stream services (not pictured) to notice that the four Program streams were audio and video combos. The EIT table only shows two services too.
Notice I didn't say subchannels though!
As for the KVCW, I can tune it ok too. Maybe I'll deeper into it.

vegggas

I haven't got a clue what you guys are talking about, and I thought I was tech savvy. :confused:

I haven't got a clue what you guys are talking about, and I thought I was tech savvy. :confused:
That's the beauty of modern consumer electronics - Push the power button and it just works - Well, usually it does. I can still build a radio with a few simple parts without a power source, at least I think I still can :o That's also why there is a WIDE variety of people with the same services, but with completely different views on how it looks too. There are so many variables involved in the delivery, reception and display of a digital signal that rarely are two system exactly the same.
Many think a digital signal either works or it doesn't, but there's a lot more involved than just getting a signal.

vegggas

vegggas, are you going to be able to post a transport stream breakdown of the big 4 and pbs soon? I'm wondering if KLAS has any extra services running, since the NFL game tonite looks noticebly worse than last season.

vegggas, are you going to be able to post a transport stream breakdown of the big 4 and pbs soon? I'm wondering if KLAS has any extra services running, since the NFL game tonite looks noticebly worse than last season.
Here you go. Running at about 14.5Mbps average.
Notice the null packets and all the EIT tables... Something is being added...
From a hardware source manual:
Event Information Table (EIT-n): The outgoing EITs may be modified extensively by
the process of remapping and re-multiplexing of the incoming streams. As with the
CVCT, the strategy used with the EIT is to replace each of the incoming EIT-n’s with a single synthesized EIT-n. The hardware captures the incoming EIT-n’s and uses this information to construct the replacement EIT-n.

vegggas

vegggas, are you going to be able to post a transport stream breakdown of the big 4 and pbs soon? I'm wondering if KLAS has any extra services running, since the NFL game tonite looks noticebly worse than last season.


that may be, but the colts/rams game on Fox cox# 735 looked outstanding to my eyes. I'm disappointed that D* wont be showing ALL the NFL games this year in HD . Last year all the FOX games were in HD and only 3 for CBS. I believe that its going to be the same this year contrary to the rumors I had read last year about all the games going HD for CBS this year. The analog games on Sunday Ticket are horrible and almost completely unwatchable.

that may be, but the colts/rams game on Fox cox# 735 looked outstanding to my eyes. I'm disappointed that D* wont be showing ALL the NFL games this year in HD . Last year all the FOX games were in HD and only 3 for CBS. I believe that its going to be the same this year contrary to the rumors I had read last year about all the games going HD for CBS this year. The analog games on Sunday Ticket are horrible and almost completely unwatchable.

Watch them on a smaller set and it will be just fine!

I really don't see the point in watching men do athletic stunts, touch each other on the butt and do gay dances after scoring on larger and larger sets! IN HD EVEN?

Really, just go to walmart and pick up a 27 tube and watch football on that. The clarity and vividness will astonish you. It just wont be so big :D

Just as a reference, here is the KLAS feed (second program #49 is KLAS) on Cox cable on a QAM being shared with PBS. They get the same feeds and don't alter or compress them. As you can see by the null packets, there are over 11Mbps of unused space that could be filled if local broadcastesr upped their datarates.
A QAM holds 38.4Mbps on it's carrier, so it can hold 2 full data rate 19.2Mbps OTA full broadcasts with no overhead loss.

vegggas

Just as a reference, here is the KLAS feed (second program #49 is KLAS) on Cox cable on a QAM being shared with PBS. They get the same feeds and don't alter or compress them. As you can see by the null packets, there are over 11Mbps of unused space that could be filled if local broadcastesr upped their datarates.
A QAM holds 38.4Mbps on it's carrier, so it can hold 2 full data rate 19.2Mbps OTA full broadcasts with no overhead loss.

vegggas

I thought Cox was complaining of lack of bandwith and going switched digital?
Cant the 11 Mbps be used elsewhere? I'm not familiar with QAM I guess.

Maybe Cox should alter and compress them a little and give the customers more content esp. HD!

Maybe Cox should alter and compress them a little and give the customers more content esp. HD!

No, that's Dish's playbook.

I don't think you are understanding, so I'll reiterate.
OTA 8VSB modulated signals can provide up to 19.Mbps of data on each RF channel. High quality video signals can be transmitted this way, typically with a single video stream.
256QAM Modulated RF signals can carry up to 38.4Mbps of data, which can hold two OTA stations without modifying or degrading the signals in any way. Cox is carrying only two OTA signals on the QAM so that they can provide the retransmissions of local stations with no degradation at their full bandwidth.
The local stations are REDUCING the maximum throughput of 19.8Mbp down to lower levels in order to add additional services (weather, etc), at the expense of the main channel, that WILL and DO show much more macroblocking than if they were at full datarates.
A good example would be like watching good streaming videos on the internet on a broadand connection at a high data rate like 3 to 5 Megabits /sec, then trying to watch the same video on a dial up low data rate phone connection like 33.6 to 56 Kilobits /sec. The video will suffer a lot of blocking issues because the video bandwidth exceeds the connetion bandwidth.
Cox is having to keep the full data rate available in case the local stations get closer to using their maximum bitrate again. Unfortunately, you can't move bits around between QAMs or modulators. Moving to Switched Digital Video, EVERYTHING is eventually converted to IP and sent to the end user and any and all available extra Mbps can be used wherever they are needed to cover the bandwidth needs of the video.

Cox and other cable co's are in the process of moving and grouping channels together to make more efficient use of current channel needs right now, and moving to Switched Digital Video for even more bandwidth down the road. That that takes millions of dollars in equipment swapouts in all the headends and all the thousands of neighborhood nodes. Gains underway will yield enough room for about 6 HD channels in the near future and around 30 more HD channels by the time the conversion is completed. When asked about future HD channels in an interview, The Cox corporate executves have been quoted as saying " All of them"

Maybe Cox should alter and compress them a little and give the customers more content esp. HD! That is what D* has been doing for a while now and what E* is starting to do more of. They are reducing overall resolution by 25% and datarates by about the same. Those sat subs are leaving and moving to cable to get the last bastion of full resolution they can get.

vegggas

^^ Yep, with switched video cable effectively has unlimited bandwidth. Perhaps foghorn wants everyone to suffer compressed HD-lite so he can rationalize the fast one Dish has pulled on him. (After all, judging from various threads, he is about the only person that can't see the HD-lite on HDNet/HDNet Movies.)

The worst part for you guys is that Cox doesn't appear to be carrying the extra PBS subchannels. Cox here has NBC and PBS on RF 81, and they carry both NBC Weather+ and the PBS SD simulcast in there as well. It's bad to be screwed out of bandwidth by a station so they can put up a useless weather channel or at best marginally useful (logo-free) version of their analog channel, and it's even worse when your provider just burns that bandwidth on nullpackets.

Switched video is still a long ways out, and when it gets here it will render useless everything that uses a CableCard, including the S3 Tivo.

^^ Yep, with switched video cable effectively has unlimited bandwidth. Perhaps foghorn wants everyone to suffer compressed HD-lite so he can rationalize the fast one Dish has pulled on him. (After all, judging from various threads, he is about the only person that can't see the HD-lite on HDNet/HDNet Movies.)

No, the HD-lite thing is just a few complainers that have 1080i/p sets that have nothing better to do but to look at bitrates and size and complain all day about it instead of changing providers.

I see no mass exodus of customers leaving Dish because of HDnet compression. If anything, they gain more subs each day! Heck, at least we have HDnet, what can the cheerleaders @ Cox say about that?

HDnet on Dish still looks better on Dish than DTV and better than INHD (which we may get soon) on COX.

As for switched video, I think its just a ploy to keep people renting their crappy boxes and kill TivoS3. Now when that happens, we will see who is really pulling the fast one on the customers!

BTW, George: Hows your investment in USDTV? Did some one pull a fast one on you there? How about channel 8, they are not broadcasting at full 19.2, are they pulling a fast one on you there too?

George, tell me please, where can you get HDnet at full bitrate? Is it from Cox, DTV, please let me know so if I ever notice the picture quality degration, I can switch!

Oh, I know Vegggas, you are the only one getting HDnet through Cox because you are so special and I'm sure you will report it to be full bitrate?

Channel 8's HD-LITE bit rates are about the same as HDnet on Dish. Damn they both look good!

No, that's Dish's playbook.

Isn't channel 8 doing the same along with all the local providers. They are all HD-Lite!

Channel 8's HD-LITE bit rates are about the same as HDnet on Dish. Damn they both look good!

No they don't. Because KLAS is using an early generation HD encoder, the games on NFL Network HD (even via DirecTV) have put their macroblocking broadcast to shame.

The worst part for you guys is that Cox doesn't appear to be carrying the extra PBS subchannels. Cox here has NBC and PBS on RF 81, and they carry both NBC Weather+ and the PBS SD simulcast in there as well. It's bad to be screwed out of bandwidth by a station so they can put up a useless weather channel or at best marginally useful (logo-free) version of their analog channel, and it's even worse when your provider just burns that bandwidth on nullpackets.

The PBS SD digital subchannel looks like internet video circa 1995. The bitrate is just too low to be watchable so I don't blame Cox for not bothering. KLVX just added Create, so that one might be a carriage issue.

Actually, The S3Tivo is suppose to be able to have a multistream cable card. From the product specs i believe it stated two regular cable cards and one multistream. Switched video can work with the multistream cable card.

I remember reading about the multistream cable card able to do switched video either at www.cedmagazine.com or www.multichannel.com .

Mark

NFL Network HD is up on Ch 707 right now. Giants vs. Ravens. Looks like it is just for when NFL Net has an HD game. Went back to INHD2 after the game.

Hey All,
I have a E* 811 and all I see is black when I turn on 10-03 KLVX. Anyone else see nothing but black on 10-03?

The worst part for you guys is that Cox doesn't appear to be carrying the extra PBS subchannels.
Yes they do, they are on a different QAM. Cox is in the middle of re-organizing the lineup (PID'S) to be more efficient and free up space for simulcast and more HD.

Switched video is still a long ways out, and when it gets here it will render useless everything that uses a CableCard, including the S3 Tivo.
It's already here and no it won't. Switched Digital Video will work with Cable Card as long as the HOST device is able to send a return signal to the headend and request a stream. Next July (I think) cable co's are required to only purchase STB's that do not handle the decryption internally and use cable card or OCAP as the decryptor devices. Time Warner already has rolled out SDV in some markets with success.
Tivo is bringing a product to market at the end stages of Cable Card V1 development and is concerned that in the next year as cable co's start to use SDV, they will have to make their devices with a return path to be compatible with all services. The same could be said of D* and E* going Mpeg4 since Tivo is not compatible with Mpeg 4 either. This is the biggest pitfall of owning devices instead of leasing them as technology is moving at a faster pace every day than manufacturing can keep up with.

vegggas

No, the HD-lite thing is just a few complainers that have 1080i/p sets that have nothing better to do but to look at bitrates and size and complain all day about it instead of changing providers.
There are tons of people complaining about the quality and 1080i sets have been around since the 90's. Even people with lower resolution displays are complaining and many don't have any idea about bitrates and size, only that the PQ is less than it used to be and not as good as other providers. And yes, there are D* diehards that have vowed to never change and have had the services for 10 or more years, now are going to cable and not believing how good the PQ can be.

I see no mass exodus of customers leaving Dish because of HDnet compression. If anything, they gain more subs each day! Heck, at least we have HDnet, what can the cheerleaders @ Cox say about that?
It's been less than a week, but there are already posts about Dish customers complaining and leaving. May saw the writing on the wall and left before this happened. As for HDNet, time will tell. Agreements were just made with A&EHD and as contracts are finalized content will be added as space permits, and not because they are recompressing the feed to fit more in the same small hole.

HDnet on Dish still looks better on Dish than DTV and better than INHD (which we may get soon) on COX. You are just guessing about INHD quality here.

As for switched video, I think its just a ploy to keep people renting their crappy boxes and kill TivoS3. Now when that happens, we will see who is really pulling the fast one on the customers!
^^ See my previous post about SDV and Tivo. As of this time next year, you should be able to buy any OCAP box you want.

BTW, George: Hows your investment in USDTV? Did some one pull a fast one on you there? How about channel 8, they are not broadcasting at full 19.2, are they pulling a fast one on you there too?
George, tell me please, where can you get HDnet at full bitrate? Is it from Cox, DTV, please let me know so if I ever notice the picture quality degration, I can switch!
Channel 8 KLAS is reducing their bitrate for a reason. We do not yet know exactly why, but there is speculation. The pixelation seen is the same for all providers using their feed, so if it doesn't bother you, then you are not as picky as you say you are.
If you have acces to HDNet from any provider, I strongly suggest recording the test patterens most Tuesday Mornings to get an idea of how your system compares to others. BTW, the 25% reduction in resolution on Dish was for the HDNet Movies Channel, not the Main HDNet channel.
3:50 AM PT HDNet Test Patterns
Wonder how your home theatre is doing? Wish you had test patterns to help set it up? Well, HDNet is here to help. This short program will help you get the most out of your home theatre setup by providing you with the same professional test patterns HDNet uses to set their gear.
Oh yeah Foghorn, We will welcome you back when Cox launches HDNet and other channelsat 1920x1080 and at 20+ Mbps.
vegggas

Channel 8's HD-LITE bit rates are about the same as HDnet on Dish. Damn they both look good!
This is how I KNOW you are not seeing the full picture. KLAS Channel 8 PQ has been going downhill with fast motion for a little while now (a few of us mentioned it back a few months ago) as they are doing some kind of testing, possibly at the national level. If you have not seen the difference, or think it looks "good" than you don't know what you are missing or do not have the resources to see the drop in quality.

Isn't channel 8 doing the same along with all the local providers. They are all HD-Lite!
No, they are providing full 1920x1080 resolution, not 1440x1080 (HD-Lite) resolution. They are just limiting the bitrate so that fast motion scenes are getting pixelated. Slow moving or still scenes still look stunning.


vegggas

NFL Network HD is up on Ch 707 right now. Giants vs. Ravens. Looks like it is just for when NFL Net has an HD game. Went back to INHD2 after the game.
Thanks tazlv - Just to clarify, this was on Cox LV Channel 707 (INHD2), carrying the NFL NETWORK HD content. The NFL Network is already on channel 317 AND has it's own VOD content channel. Adding it as a seperate HD channel is a waste of bandwidth at this time with only a few hours of content for the season.

vegggas

Hmmm.. I wonder if Foghorn is watching the FoxHD (KVVU in Vegas) MLB game between the SF Giants and LA Dodgers? I'll give you a hint, it's not HD at all, it's Widescreen SD, and yes, everyone can tell the difference in PQ, except maybe Foghorn. :rolleyes:
This is KVVU's example of:
Lower resolution + high bandwidth = No pixelation on fast motion + soft and no details in picture.
Instead of KLAS:
High resolution + Low bandwidth = Pixelation on fast motion + Razor Sharp images the rest of the time.

vegggas

Hmmm.. I wonder if Foghorn is watching the FoxHD (KVVU in Vegas) MLB game between the SF Giants and LA Dodgers? I'll give you a hint, it's not HD at all, it's Widescreen SD, and yes, everyone can tell the difference in PQ, except maybe Foghorn. :rolleyes:
This is KVVU's example of:
Lower resolution + high bandwidth = No pixelation on fast motion + soft and no details in picture.
Instead of KLAS:
High resolution + Low bandwidth = Pixelation on fast motion + Razor Sharp images the rest of the time.

vegggas

I don't watch men in tights doing athletic stunts and acts so you are right, I would not know. You might notice the lack of defintion and not be able to figure the size of their jock staps and the firmness of the pitcher, but I could care less ;)

As for 1920x1080 vs. 1440x1080, most people with HD sets have a native res well below that and 720p which is what most have to most looks better than 1080i, especially watching men doing athletic stunts that you are into.

If you have a 1920x1080, please stick with cable and suffer the lack of HD content. And if you pause the interlaced source, your brain can still pretend it looks better than 720p :D Make sure you are viewing the men doing athletic stunts on the paused screens at least 6 inches from the screen to notice how much better the scarce content in 1920x1080 20Mbps looks from Coxs Cable.

.......

The same could be said of D* and E* going Mpeg4 since Tivo is not compatible with Mpeg 4 either. This is the biggest pitfall of owning devices instead of leasing them as technology is moving at a faster pace every day than manufacturing can keep up with.

vegggas

Not really, the VIP622 is a MPEG4 HD recorder from Dish Network that can be purchased OR leased right now.

(Sarcasm On)

Thanks for the info guys about KLVX 10.03, I really appreciate it. You guys are soooo helpful

(Sarcasm off)

I don't watch men in tights doing athletic stunts and acts so you are right, I would not know. You might notice the lack of defintion and not be able to figure the size of their jock staps and the firmness of the pitcher, but I could care less ;) You are the one who keeps bringing up those images and is seemingly afraid to look at a sports broadcast. I'm a bit more secure than that so I don't need to make judgments. ;)

As for 1920x1080 vs. 1440x1080, most people with HD sets have a native res well below that and 720p which is what most have to most looks better than 1080i, especially watching men doing athletic stunts that you are into.

If you have a 1920x1080, please stick with cable and suffer the lack of HD content. And if you pause the interlaced source, your brain can still pretend it looks better than 720p :D Make sure you are viewing the men doing athletic stunts on the paused screens at least 6 inches from the screen to notice how much better the scarce content in 1920x1080 20Mbps looks from Coxs Cable.
You should work for one of the sat companies if you believe that load of crap. They are re-encoding and reducing the source material by 25%. Remember, they are throwing away 1/4 of the resolution on those channels that you can never get back. As for 720P vs. 1080i, it's a well documented argument here on AVS. 1080i looks better and has a higher resolution as long as you can display 1080i. If you set is a lower resolution, or a progressive display, there may be problems with your display de-interlacing the mage and then rescaling it down to a lower resolution. And besidies, when has a reduction in resolution ever looked better than full resolution?

vegggas

Not really, the VIP622 is a MPEG4 HD recorder from Dish Network that can be purchased OR leased right now.
Ummm, I was talking about Tivo trying rally customers to force cable companies to not upgrade to SDV because it would make their products less desireable and less useful. I said that the sat companies moving to Mpeg4 is basically the same thing - they are moving to mpeg4 and the current Tivos will not be able to decode that either.

vegggas

(Sarcasm On)

Thanks for the info guys about KLVX 10.03, I really appreciate it. You guys are soooo helpful

(Sarcasm off)

We're a forum of HDTV enthusiasts, not paid tech support. Despite the appearances, we do have jobs and lives and we aren't in front of a tv 24/7. Now that I'm in front of a tv and able to check it, I'm not having any issues with PBS Create on 10-3.

Try doing a rescan and see if it fixes your problem.

(Sarcasm On)

Thanks for the info guys about KLVX 10.03, I really appreciate it. You guys are soooo helpful

(Sarcasm off)
Sarcasm will get you nowhere. There are only a handful of people actually watching for that channel, which is still in testing mode, so you may have to wait a day or two to get any responce instead of three hours. :)

vegggas

foghorn, we respect your opinions, but you're just wrong on the HD-lite issue. People certainly can see the effects, and no, it doesn't take the latest five figure 1080p sets to notice the difference (after all I'm using a three figure 32" 1366x768 Syntax LCD). The fact is, vegggas only checked the KLAS stream AFTER I noticed that the NFL game was of noticeably lower quality than last year's broadcast. You're free to accept Dish throwing away 25% (1440x1080i) and 33% (1280x1080i) of the resolution and starving the bitstreams to squeeze more HD on each transponder, but please don't advocate that other providers do the same.

:eek: foghorn, we respect your opinions, but you're just wrong on the HD-lite issue. People certainly can see the effects, and no, it doesn't take the latest five figure 1080p sets to notice the difference (after all I'm using a three figure 32" 1366x768 Syntax LCD). The fact is, vegggas only checked the KLAS stream AFTER I noticed that the NFL game was of noticeably lower quality than last year's broadcast. You're free to accept Dish throwing away 25% (1440x1080i) and 33% (1280x1080i) of the resolution and starving the bitstreams to squeeze more HD on each transponder, but please don't advocate that other providers do the same.

Not only are you not a paid tech here, but you are no one to tell me what I can advocate here.

The only other provider that could starve the bitstreams to squeeze more HD on each transponder is DTV and they already do. I would never advocate Cox or KLAS in starving the bitstreams to squeeze more HD on each transponder because they don't use transponders, but they do have ATSC and QAM modulators that could give you all the best quality HD in the world but THEY DON"T!

I too have a Syntax LCD, its the LT42HVi (I also have the LT26HVX). It is considerbly larger than yours and also native 1368x768. All I can say is that maybe your scaler and processor combos does not like the lower bitrates and thats where you see the diference. I do see a difference though, Dish PQ is far superior than COX and DTV. Are you using the obsolete USDTV box, maybe thats the problem

(Sarcasm On)

Thanks for the info guys about KLVX 10.03, I really appreciate it. You guys are soooo helpful

(Sarcasm off)

I noticed KLVX having problems the last 2 days. Yesterday 10 anologe had horizontal lines and today 10.03 was gone for a moment and then had no audio for awhile.

Sorry I was too busy posting against COX cheerleaders here who think this is a Cox Cable praising board. Sarcasm noted .

I too have a Syntax LCD, its the LT42HVi (I also have the LT26HVX). It is considerbly larger than yours and also native 1368x768. All I can say is that maybe your scaler and processor combos does not like the lower bitrates and thats where you see the diference. I do see a difference though, Dish PQ is far superior than COX and DTV. Are you using the obsolete USDTV box, maybe thats the problem

FYI, my HDTV box is a DirecTV H10. I use the HDMI output to my set. And so you don't have to search back in the thread, when I moved into my house I choose DirecTV over Cox and Dish because Cox hadn't lit up my subdivision in Mountain's Edge at that time and DirecTV offered more HD channels than Dish at that time. I will most likely switch to Cox at the end of my commitment for full bandwidth HD and VOD.

FYI, my HDTV box is a DirecTV H10. I use the HDMI output to my set. And so you don't have to search back in the thread, when I moved into my house I choose DirecTV over Cox and Dish because Cox hadn't lit up my subdivision in Mountain's Edge at that time and DirecTV offered more HD channels than Dish at that time. I will most likely switch to Cox at the end of my commitment for full bandwidth HD and VOD.

If you read the SAT forums you will find that the Dish VIP622 has a great OTA tuner million times better than the one in the DTV Tivo.

You will love VOD from cox on your Syntax! The resolution and bit rates are incredible :rolleyes:

Also the SA8300 is so much better than a TIVO ;)

Its a good thing Cox does not require commitments. Good luck George :p

Will the bickering ever end? Full resolution....HD-lite.....bitrates.....WHO CARES!?!? Not the average Joe Schmo. It's STILL way better than SD has ever been.

Will the bickering ever end? Full resolution....HD-lite.....bitrates.....WHO CARES!?!? Not the average Joe Schmo. It's STILL way better than SD has ever been.

I disagree. Uncompressed component SD looks better than some of the HD-lite out there. Going from counting the individual blades of grass to counting the number of 16x16 macroblocks isn't something I can just shrug over.

Foghorn, It doesn't matter what OTA tuner you are using, the signal being sent out by KLAS IS macroblocking due to lower bitrates. That same signal that is sent out over the air is the same signal that DirecTV, Dish, And Cox use. The fact that you say you can't see it leads me to believe that you may not be viewing it at HD resolutions or something is wonky with your setup.
Dish is almost exactly where DirecTV was 18 months ago. As they added more HD, they had to start compressing and degrading the signal to feed the "more channels" monster that it created. Dish has already started down that path and will be comparable to DirecTV very soon.

BTW, those screenshots I posted were from a very high end analyzer which is used as the industry standard in evaluation and performance - something J6P would never be able to afford or use, nor would an HT user ever have access to.

vegggas

Will the bickering ever end? Full resolution....HD-lite.....bitrates.....WHO CARES!?!? Not the average Joe Schmo. It's STILL way better than SD has ever been.

Exactly, I bet you unless they actually look up the bitrates and size, most wont notice the difference and the obsessive-compulsive ones will dwell on it and drive em nuts, making them to even really believe that some SD actually looks better than 720p or 1080i resized and compressed HD!

The football game they are talking about one year apart could have been shot with a different camera and that could be the difference. How much HD is really shot or converted from film in real 1920x1080i anyway!

Foghorn, It doesn't matter what OTA tuner you are using, the signal being sent out by KLAS IS macroblocking due to lower bitrates. That same signal that is sent out over the air is the same signal that DirecTV, Dish, And Cox use. The fact that you say you can't see it leads me to believe that you may not be viewing it at HD resolutions or something is wonky with your setup.
Dish is almost exactly where DirecTV was 18 months ago. As they added more HD, they had to start compressing and degrading the signal to feed the "more channels" monster that it created. Dish has already started down that path and will be comparable to DirecTV very soon.

BTW, those screenshots I posted were from a very high end analyzer which is used as the industry standard in evaluation and performance - something J6P would never be able to afford or use, nor would an HT user ever have access to.

vegggas

The only analyzer I need is my eyes thank you!

Exactly, I bet you unless they actually look up the bitrates and size, most wont notice the difference and the obsessive-compulsive ones will dwell on it and drive em nuts, making them to even really believe that some SD actually looks better than 720p or 1080i resized and compressed HD!

The football game they are talking about one year apart could have been shot with a different camera and that could be the difference. How much HD is really shot or converted from film in real 1920x1080i anyway!
You seem to keep missing the fact that we only analyzed the data rates AFTER SEEING HOW BAD the images looked. Everyone watches the content, but when it looks bad, they want to know why it looks bad. What I posted was the reason WHY it looks bad.
For the football game, it had noting to do with the cameras. People all around the country, who's CBS affiliate throttled down the bandwidth, all saw the same bad images and complained about how poor it looked and how bad the macroblocing was- Without analyzing the data first!. There are rumors that CBS is adding a national subchannel and they are reserving that space for the new launch instead of giving full bitrate HD.
And yes, if you watch film converted to HD (35mm and 70mm film exceeds HD resolution) , like HDNet Movies, it is usually scanned frame by frame and mastered at 1080p and broadcast at 1080i. This is the MAJOR reason that people are miffed at Dish since they are cutting down HDNet movies from 1080 down to 1440. It's about the same as taking a good DVD transfer and copying it to a VHS tape.
You are the one that should be the most upset - You paid good money for your HD equipment and chose a providere who said they provided HD, and now they are going ack on that agreement.

vegggas

Has anyone got a Cox 8300 DVR in Vegas, that has got a Firewire to DVHS working? Thanks

You seem to keep missing the fact that we only analyzed the data rates AFTER SEEING HOW BAD the images looked. Everyone watches the content, but when it looks bad, they want to know why it looks bad. What I posted was the reason WHY it looks bad.
For the football game, it had noting to do with the cameras. People all around the country, who's CBS affiliate throttled down the bandwidth, all saw the same bad images and complained about how poor it looked and how bad the macroblocing was- Without analyzing the data first!. There are rumors that CBS is adding a national subchannel and they are reserving that space for the new launch instead of giving full bitrate HD.
And yes, if you watch film converted to HD (35mm and 70mm film exceeds HD resolution) , like HDNet Movies, it is usually scanned frame by frame and mastered at 1080p and broadcast at 1080i. This is the MAJOR reason that people are miffed at Dish since they are cutting down HDNet movies from 1080 down to 1440. It's about the same as taking a good DVD transfer and copying it to a VHS tape.
You are the one that should be the most upset - You paid good money for your HD equipment and chose a providere who said they provided HD, and now they are going ack on that agreement.

vegggas

Wrong, I paid good money for HD and left Cox because of the lack of it and other reasons.

Now I'm getting a hell of a lot more channels in HD from Dish that look better than Cox ever did with a HD-DVR miles ahead of the obsolete and outdated full of bugs POS SA8300 from Cox!

You can bitch and complain about HD on Dish all you want but the truth remains that they still have more HD than anyone else and the PQ far surpasses that of COX no matter what the bitrate and what the rez.

At least we get all these channels in HD from Dish reguardless of the size and rates, meanwhile you and Georgie are looking at how the blades of grass look on the few piddlly channels Cox lets you pheasents get for the bloated price they charge you.

Keep looking at those blades of grass and wonder what the rez and size they are on Cox, I can tell you they are greener and clearer on the Dish Network side, and there are a lot more channels to see them on.

KVBC's encoder is still set blur on insufficient bitrate (which happens about every play on Football). Apparantly most of the other NBC stations got the memo and fixed it already, so hopefully engineering at KVBC will have it fixed by the time the important games start.

An update to Create on KLVX, no audio today!

An update to Create on KLVX, no audio today!

The audio is just fine over here. I even checked out the closed captioning which is working flawlessly. Maybe your "bug free" Dish 622 receiver isn't quite so bug free after all.

While I'm on the topic of captioning, the captions on KLAS-DT are gibberish, but the captions on the analog channel are fine.

Borrowed from the main NBC Sunday Night footnall thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=710565
so Foghorn doesn't have to watch men in tights dance around, but he can see the problem.

pic from KNBC: Click image
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6498/snfblocking1cs1.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snfblocking1cs1.jpg)

This is what happens when the local stations reduce the bitrate and the motion is too fast. The same thing is happening here in Vegas and around the country from all providers. This is what we are complaining about.

vegggas

Borrowed from the main NBC Sunday Night footnall thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=710565
so Foghorn doesn't have to watch men in tights dance around, but he can see the problem.

pic from KNBC: Click image
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6498/snfblocking1cs1.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snfblocking1cs1.jpg)

This is what happens when the local stations reduce the bitrate and the motion is too fast. The same thing is happening here in Vegas and around the country from all providers. This is what we are complaining about.

vegggas

(sarcasm on)
All I can say is that maybe your scaler and processor combos does not like the lower bitrates and thats where you see the diference. I do see a difference though, Dish PQ is far superior than COX and DTV.
(sarcasm off)

The audio is just fine over here. I even checked out the closed captioning which is working flawlessly. Maybe your "bug free" Dish 622 receiver isn't quite so bug free after all.

My TV set and the DVR did not have audio earlier today.

Borrowed from the main NBC Sunday Night footnall thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=710565
so Foghorn doesn't have to watch men in tights dance around, but he can see the problem.

pic from KNBC: Click image
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6498/snfblocking1cs1.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snfblocking1cs1.jpg)

This is what happens when the local stations reduce the bitrate and the motion is too fast. The same thing is happening here in Vegas and around the country from all providers. This is what we are complaining about.

vegggas

poor babies, now the same thing is happening here in Vegas and around the country from all providers. I say cann them all and go look outside and look at reality, its the best HD available and its free!

Staring at your oscilloscopes and getting pissed at the bitrates will drive you insane :D

Borrowed from the main NBC Sunday Night footnall thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=710565
so Foghorn doesn't have to watch men in tights dance around, but he can see the problem.

pic from KNBC: Click image
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6498/snfblocking1cs1.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snfblocking1cs1.jpg)

This is what happens when the local stations reduce the bitrate and the motion is too fast. The same thing is happening here in Vegas and around the country from all providers. This is what we are complaining about.

vegggas

Maybe they should have shot that in VHS-C. You would not get those pixellated pics.

Dish Network update:

Several RSN HDs coming this fall for you sports buffs.
INHD uplinked to 61.5 and 129 sats!
External DVR storage coming this fall.
Food HD coming this Wednesday, August 16 :) :) :) :)

George, Vegggggasss, et.al. please let me know the quality of FoodHD from your providers. Please let me know what bitrates and rez they are coming from your masters.

OH! WAIT! I'm sorry, I forgot, your providers don't provide you with FoodHD. Well let me know when they do, if ever, so we can compare specks. I'll have 29 other HD channels to compare specks with you guys.

I can't wait to see Giada DeLaurentis and Rachel Ray in 16x9 HD. Now there are two gals I'd like to see in tights doing athletic stunts :D :D :D

I don't see Create at all, it's 10-3 right? I get some letterboxed image, but that's all

I don't see Create at all, it's 10-3 right? I get some letterboxed image, but that's all

Yup, 10-3. It should be up and OK today.

DirecTV has narrowed down the launch date for Las Vegas HD locals. They're coming in September. http://directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/channelChart2.jsp?assetId=1100086

DirecTV has narrowed down the launch date for Las Vegas HD locals. They're coming in September. http://directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/channelChart2.jsp?assetId=1100086

Thats great news for DirectTV subs that don't know or care about Free Local OTA HD. Now there is an alternative to Cox for people looking for Local HD.

Too bad channel 8 is HD-lite on Cox, OTA and Directv now. :p

Just remember goghorn that not everyone in the valley can get OTA. I can't get 8 or 13 because there is a mountain blocking the signal. The only thing that bothers me is that I can't get a TiVo that will record the MPEG4 stuff from Directv.

Too bad channel 8 is HD-lite on Cox, OTA and Directv now. :p
...And HD-LIte on Dish, USDTV, and all ATSC HDTV tuners too, etc.

vegggas

DirecTV has narrowed down the launch date for Las Vegas HD locals. They're coming in September. http://directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/channelChart2.jsp?assetId=1100086
Actually that's about in line with past predictions. It's actually good news that they are available and expanding into the areas.
Is anyone here going to get the current mpeg4 reciever, or just wait until new (non Tivo) DVR comes out? The space savings by using mpeg4 should increase the overall storage of a DVR quite a bit.

vegggas

I might get one of the mpeg 4 recievers. I would like to see the Fox Sports West HD channel when hockey season starts.

Just remember goghorn that not everyone in the valley can get OTA. I can't get 8 or 13 because there is a mountain blocking the signal. The only thing that bothers me is that I can't get a TiVo that will record the MPEG4 stuff from Directv.

Yes, I know lvblunder, esp. the people right behind black mountain. Now they have a choice other than Cox.

Actually that's about in line with past predictions. It's actually good news that they are available and expanding into the areas.
Is anyone here going to get the current mpeg4 reciever, or just wait until new (non Tivo) DVR comes out? The space savings by using mpeg4 should increase the overall storage of a DVR quite a bit.

vegggas

Actually I already have a non TIvo MPEG4 DVR, and yes I get a lot of space. It holds alot more than the SA8300HD.

Looks like a local thread going on here. Cool!

I am getting rid of Dish and going with Cox, the hook up is 8/26. I have had too many problems with the 921 receiver and overall satisfaction with Dish I hope the DVR that Cox provides is better. Not sure if I want to jump into MPEG4 yet. The best part is I will be saving $$.

Just remember goghorn that not everyone in the valley can get OTA. I can't get 8 or 13 because there is a mountain blocking the signal. The only thing that bothers me is that I can't get a TiVo that will record the MPEG4 stuff from Directv.
--------
I might get one of the mpeg 4 recievers. I would like to see the Fox Sports West HD channel when hockey season starts.


The DirecTV MPEG4 DVR (not a Tivo) is "beta" launching in LA tomorrow, so there's a decent chance it will be available when HD LiL launches here. If you're looking to DirecTV for HD RSNs, you might want to wait and see since the initial reports are they are only being beamed to the home city and not the entire RSN area.

The DirecTV MPEG4 DVR (not a Tivo) is "beta" launching in LA tomorrow, so there's a decent chance it will be available when HD LiL launches here. If you're looking to DirecTV for HD RSNs, you might want to wait and see since the initial reports are they are only being beamed to the home city and not the entire RSN area.

Boy wouldn't that be a shame. So how big are these spots anyways.

Boy wouldn't that be a shame. So how big are these spots anyways.

Since the LA DMA is so large, I wouldn't be shocked if you could "move" to LA to get the HD RSNs. Of course, once the new satellites are up the HD RSNs will probably be on a national beam and you could look forward to FSN Arizona and FSN Bay Area as well.

Well if we can physically see the HD RSN of Fox Sports West we should get that channel without "moving" to LA since it is our RSN. It would be awsome for sports subscribers to have all the RSN's on a national beam. That way we could watch whatever game we want in HD as long as we have the right package.

Well if we can physically see the HD RSN of Fox Sports West we should get that channel without "moving" to LA since it is our RSN. It would be awsome for sports subscribers to have all the RSN's on a national beam. That way we could watch whatever game we want in HD as long as we have the right package.

I'm sure there'll be "HD versions" of the MLB, NBA, and NHL packages available within the next few years. It seems only natural, and a bit overdue.

Looks like a local thread going on here. Cool!

I am getting rid of Dish and going with Cox, the hook up is 8/26. I have had too many problems with the 921 receiver and overall satisfaction with Dish I hope the DVR that Cox provides is better. Not sure if I want to jump into MPEG4 yet. The best part is I will be saving $$.

Oh boy, just wait until Foghorn reads this post. :rolleyes:

I'm sure there'll be "HD versions" of the MLB, NBA, and NHL packages available within the next few years. It seems only natural, and a bit overdue.

To a degree we are receiving a bit of HD MLB. Problem is, whenever it is a west coast team, we get blacked out. It's incredibly irritating and mind-boggling that we cannot view Padre or Dodger games in HD. I thought the fact that we carry those two teams via Cox should allow us to bypass blackout restrictions. I guess not. For the seemingly millionth time I cry out..."Why are we being blacked out of roughly 20-40% of MLB games????". Just downright maddening the situation with INHD carriage of west coast games. Bring back the Padres in HD...PLEASE!

Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. ;-)

To a degree we are receiving a bit of HD MLB. Problem is, whenever it is a west coast team, we get blacked out. It's incredibly irritating and mind-boggling that we cannot view Padre or Dodger games in HD. I thought the fact that we carry those two teams via Cox should allow us to bypass blackout restrictions. I guess not. For the seemingly millionth time I cry out..."Why are we being blacked out of roughly 20-40% of MLB games????". Just downright maddening the situation with INHD carriage of west coast games. Bring back the Padres in HD...PLEASE!

Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. ;-)

DirecTV subs get the some of the Dodgers and Angels games on FSN West/Prime Ticket HD on the shared mpeg2 rsn hd channel 95.

But, yeah, I'm sick of seeing a Dodgers/Padres/Angels/Giants/A's/Diamondbacks HD game on scheduled ESPN or ESPN2 HD and gettng the blackout message. Hopefully, Cox will negotiate to get the HD feeds for FSN West/Prime Ticket and bring back the Channel 4 San Diego HD games. As for the Giants, A's, and Diamondbacks, the MLB should remove Vegas from those teams "home" territory.

<snnip> Bring back the Padres in HD...PLEASE!
Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. ;-)
That could also be in the works with all the other HD channels coming this fall. ;)

vegggas

To a degree we are receiving a bit of HD MLB. Problem is, whenever it is a west coast team, we get blacked out. It's incredibly irritating and mind-boggling that we cannot view Padre or Dodger games in HD. I thought the fact that we carry those two teams via Cox should allow us to bypass blackout restrictions. I guess not. For the seemingly millionth time I cry out..."Why are we being blacked out of roughly 20-40% of MLB games????". Just downright maddening the situation with INHD carriage of west coast games. Bring back the Padres in HD...PLEASE!

Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. ;-)

Well if you trust Bud Selig, and I don't, he says he's going to take a long hard look at the grossly outdated baseball blackout rules this offseason and try to "rectify" things. I'll believe it when I see it.

And oh yeah. Since when did this garbage start with us not being allowed to see games that are carried on ESPN? I was quite shocked to see a game being blacked out last week on ESPN HD. I could have sworn that ESPN HD was immune to the whole territorial thing as I remember viewing west coast teams in HD via ESPN in the past. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I guess all that we can hope for is Mayor Goodman pulling some miracles out of his Beefeater bottle and getting us here in LV an MLB franchise. That would eliminate the whole mess of LV being claimed as "territory" for SIX different teams. Gimme a break!

That could also be in the works with all the other HD channels coming this fall. ;)

vegggas

Very encouraging! What a tease that was for Cox to give us the Padres HD all summer a couple of seasons ago.

Well if you trust Bud Selig, and I don't, he says he's going to take a long hard look at the grossly outdated baseball blackout rules this offseason and try to "rectify" things. I'll believe it when I see it.

Hmmm. Where did you read that? I comb through articles concerning this on MLB's website as much as I can. Sorry I missed that one.

I trust Bud about as much as you. However, at least we're getting lip service if nothing else. I wasn't even getting that in the past when trying to contact anyone and everyone involved in this blackout fiasco. I'll be watching this one closely. Thanks for the info.

Very encouraging! What a tease that was for Cox to give us the Padres HD all summer a couple of seasons ago.
As far as educated rumors go, with the viewable channel remapping finished, and now the shuffling and re-organizing of the QAM's they are currently doing, they are going to add a few HD's in the near future and many in the not to far off future.

vegggas

And oh yeah. Since when did this garbage start with us not being allowed to see games that are carried on ESPN? I was quite shocked to see a game being blacked out last week on ESPN HD. I could have sworn that ESPN HD was immune to the whole territorial thing as I remember viewing west coast teams in HD via ESPN in the past. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.


New contract, new terms. ESPN only has out-of-market rights for the baseball games they show this season. (Sort of...for up to 3 games a team they can lift the blackout, but I think they've already used those up for the Dodgers)

Hmmm. Where did you read that? I comb through articles concerning this on MLB's website as much as I can. Sorry I missed that one.

I trust Bud about as much as you. However, at least we're getting lip service if nothing else. I wasn't even getting that in the past when trying to contact anyone and everyone involved in this blackout fiasco. I'll be watching this one closely. Thanks for the info.

It was a hot topic last month, even getting mentioned several times on SportsCenter. There were stories about it on all the major sports websites. I'm surprised you missed it. Here's a link to one article. They all basically say the same thing.


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-blackouts071106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Oh boy, just wait until Foghorn reads this post. :rolleyes:

OH, Boy!

Noticed he said he had a problem with the 921 box, the buggy, outdated one (back when I was not a cheerleader for Dish) like the one he is going to encounter with Cox.

Its a great day for sat subs.

The new H20 HD DVR has reviews out here in the sat forums. Hopefully it is better than the HD-Tivo.

From what I've read, the Vip622 from Dish is still miles ahead of the new H20 from DirectTV which the ATSC tuner in it isn't even active yet.

Food Network is now LIVE in HD channel 9462 on Dish Network. The PQ is excellent and really no one else can get it Las Vegas unless they subscribe to Dish. INHD should be coming next.

What I am hearing is that I will regret going to Cox????!!!!!!!!!

What I am hearing is that I will regret going to Cox????!!!!!!!!!

According to JD Power:

Cox was the top pay TV provider in the West region, scoring 690 points. It was followed by Dish (662) and DirecTV (661). Companies scoring below average in the West region were Comcast (622), Time Warner (605), Charter (596), Cable One (587), Mediacom Communications (577) and Adelphia (544).

Cox is just like anything else. Some people like it and some hate it. I lean on the hate side because I have had a couple of there CSR's act rude to me in the past.

It also depends on how you feel about the rent vs. buy debate. I personally don't like to rent anything. I do however expect the telecommunications companies to pick something and stick with it. I don't like how most tuners are 8VSB (the OTA standard) then the cable guys come up with QAM, then they are forced to provide cablecards, then the first gen cable cards aren't that good because they are one way, then comes switched digital and the two way cable cards. Then you also have the HD connectors with Component being used first. Then they come up with the digital connectors and say if you don't use the digital connectors (which came out a year or two after I bought my HDTV) you won't get the full quality. Then now on most TV's there is only 1 digital connector. How's that going to work when your DVD player, Cable (or Sat) Box, and your game system require that one port. Either make up your mind or make all this stuff firmware upgradable. How big are the landfills going to be with all this obsolete equipment that has only been around a year or two. The whole HR10-250 MPEG4 thing really upsets me in this reguard. Directv had to know they were going to go to MPEG4 before the TiVo even came out.

It also depends on how you feel about the rent vs. buy debate. I personally don't like to rent anything.

I don't like how most tuners are 8VSB (the OTA standard) then the cable guys come up with QAM.

1) Both DBS providers use the lease model now. You can still technically buy the equipment, but the prices are obscene ($1000 for an HD-DVR).

2) The cable guys use 256QAM because 8VSB is a waste of bandwidth when the signal is sent through a low-noise transmission channel like coaxial cable. 8VSB = 19.4mbps per 6mhz channel, 256QAM = 38.8mbps per 6mhz channel.

You will eventually regret cable. Here in Vegas they go months and now a year without bug fixes. Great features in other providers boxes get broken or are non-existant and you pay more for a lot less channels. The HD selection is very weak. Their CS is pretty good though.

For me, I don't shell out $$ because of the way call centers answer the phone but the price and selection of real services.

As for the last post reguarding paying for the sat box, the HD DVR's from Directv was $1000 and now that it is obsolete, it is around $400 and for now it CAN'T BE LEASED.

The new and best HD DVR out there is from Dish, the VIP622. You can pay an upgrade fee of 200 bucks to lease it but get it all back with 20/month for 10 months credit so it comes out free. Or you can buy it for around $500 maybe less. With Dish you will also get up to 30 channels in HD and thats not including locals!

foghorn, you better hope Dish gets some better lawyers for the appeal, TiVo won a permanent injuction requiring Dish to disable their DVR service in 30 days. http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-08/tivo-wins-permanent-injunction-against-echostar-and-cash/

So, Will Foghorn keep the Dish service without a DVR, or come back to Cox or maybe DirecTV? A $90 Million injunction AND cease of DVR functions within 30 days.
This is a final ruling with no appeals and can not be lifted until the 389 patents expire. Lawyers do not matter at this point, except for resolving customer complaints.

Wow - Should make for some interesting news tomorrow.

vegggas
Edit - The last line says "This is a final judgement and is appealable", so maybe they can get some lawyers...
v
Edit again - No newswire postings at this time either...
v

George and Veggas, you both like to attack at the same time don't you?

I can take you both on :p

Charlie Ergen is on the customers side, He's got somthing up his sleeve. Just give it time.

BTW, I'll never go back to that Volvo of a DVR you guys call the SA8300HD, on that old lone freeway called Cox.

Hey, I just responded to his news. We were all talking about the summary judgment earlier in the year, but Echostar has been putting off the repayment of royalties. According to the posted documents, if they are real, Echostar has to cease DVR features on all but it's very first DVR AND start the repayment process for royalties within 30 days and can no longer sell, market, advertise, or use the DVR services until the patents expire.

vegggas

OK, Reuters has now released the news about Echostar, and I posted a thread with the link and quote from reuters here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8232845&&#post8232845

I credited GeorgeLV as my original source.
vegggas

Charlie Ergen is on the customers side, He's got somthing up his sleeve. Just give it time.

Hmm, let's see.

Charlie dropped Lifetime and OLN from the lineup until he got the deal he wanted. So maybe he'll use the same trick and drop DVR functionality for a month or six until TiVo settles for the right price.

I'll give Charlie all the credit in the world for keeping Dish's rates low and Echostar's profits high, but I've got to think one day the hardball tactics will backfire.

Hmm, let's see.

Charlie dropped Lifetime and OLN from the lineup until he got the deal he wanted. So maybe he'll use the same trick and drop DVR functionality for a month or six until TiVo settles for the right price.

I'll give Charlie all the credit in the world for keeping Dish's rates low and Echostar's profits high, but I've got to think one day the hardball tactics will backfire.

There is no way to drop the DVR funtionality of the boxes. They learned from Microsoft with their Windows/Internet Explorer bundle :)

Yes, the DVR functionalilty can be disabled and the box can be reverted to a standard receiver. If it was integrated into the OS as a command set, then you couldn't have standalone recievers without DVR's.

Most likely, Tivo, who asked for them to buy into their software, will allow a reduction in the awarded settlement if they agree to pay monthly fees for all the DVR's for use of the patened features for a contracted length of time.

Echostar lost this battle back in April, but have been delaying any final judgements, until Tivo made the demand and the judge forced a 30 day time period.
vegggas

Because of Tivo's behavior, I hope Cox and all the other cable companies do go switched digital and kill off Tivo S3.

Just got the new Cox newsletter in my email.... NO NEW HD CHANNELS ANNOUNCED....just some minor channel location switching this month :(

Why foghorn would you want a company who has no products but patents up the wazu to go around sueing people. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go after some of the cable comanies besides.

Besides does anyone know for sure that the S3 won't do switched digital. The cable card slot is just a PCMCIA slot so it would make sense to me that a driver update would be able to add that functionality.

What I am hearing is that I will regret going to Cox????!!!!!!!!!
For starters, you have to wait weeks for an install.

What I am hearing is that I will regret going to Cox????!!!!!!!!!

I dont regret it at all.

your bubbles have been burst:

from Tivo will die eventualy (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=897186&highlight=)

EchoStar Announces Federal Circuit Blocks Tivo Injunction
ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 18, 2006--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) issued the following statement regarding recent developments in the Tivo Inc. v. EchoStar Communications Corp. lawsuit:

"We are pleased that this morning, the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C. temporarily blocked an injunction issued by a Texas Court, while it considers a longer-term stay of that injunction.

As a result of the stay EchoStar can continue to sell, and provide to consumers, all of its digital video recorder models. We continue to believe the Texas decision was wrong, and should be reversed on appeal. We also continue to work on modifications to our new DVRs, and to our DVRs in the field, intended to avoid future alleged infringement."

Hmm, let's see.

Charlie dropped Lifetime and OLN from the lineup until he got the deal he wanted. So maybe he'll use the same trick and drop DVR functionality for a month or six until TiVo settles for the right price.

I'll give Charlie all the credit in the world for keeping Dish's rates low and Echostar's profits high, but I've got to think one day the hardball tactics will backfire.

Nah! He a winner. True American Spirit!

Just got the new Cox newsletter in my email.... NO NEW HD CHANNELS ANNOUNCED....just some minor channel location switching this month :(
Ho Hum

It's very rare for them to "announce" new HD channels due to changes going on with the network right now. There are now corporate contracts with MTVHD and A&EHD, but until the network is finished being moved around, they can't launch the channels. Setting a hard launch date puts them in a bad press situation if they don't comply, but announcing them after they launch has very little press backlash.
There are more HD channels coming soon. As I was told, well before the end of the year, but exact times are not available due to physical constraints of the network. They can't launch the channels in the parts of the valley that have been upgraded and not the other areas as that would be a breach of franchise agreements that dictate that all areas have to be equally upgraded and offer the same level of services - i.e. you can't just put new services in affluent neighborhoods to get a quick profit.

vegggas

For starters, you have to wait weeks for an install.

I don't have a dog in this fight...

But as far as cox installation goes ...I signed up on line back in June. Signed up on Wednesday for an install that Saturday. Maybe I am in an "good" area that didn't need the installer to do much, but I certainly didn't wait "weeks" for an install....

-bob

Are you sure about that Vegggas. I remember when they rolled out cable modems they did that in sections.

As for waiting weeks for an install. Since there are so many new subdivisions around I bet this is true if you live in a brand new neighborhood.

Are you sure about that Vegggas. I remember when they rolled out cable modems they did that in sections.
Modems and Digital Phones are communications services and are regluated under those restrictions, just like landline based phone systems. The franchise agreements for video are different and more confining (as the telcos are finding out!).

vegggas

They can't launch the channels in the parts of the valley that have been upgraded and not the other areas as that would be a breach of franchise agreements that dictate that all areas have to be equally upgraded and offer the same level of services - i.e. you can't just put new services in affluent neighborhoods to get a quick profit.

vegggas


Just curious, Do you happen to know which areas have been upgraded so far and which ones are still pending?

Just curious, Do you happen to know which areas have been upgraded so far and which ones are still pending?
No, But I still can't get digital phone in my area yet either :(
I do know that a major upgrade is taking place where all the nodes are being upgraded, although I don't know the specific details

vegggas

I don't know about the waiting weeks either. I chose my date based on work and time available, they gave me a 2 hr window at the time of my choice. We'll see what happens on the 26th.

As far as digital quality goes I will find out, as I will find out with their "rental" DVR. I am one of those who would rather rent this type of equipment than buy it due to the rapidly changing products.

Hey, My guide (COX) seems to have changed recently. When I got home, there are now a bunch of test channels listed between 735 and 900.
Anyone else seeing this?

vegggas

Hey, My guide (COX) seems to have changed recently. When I got home, there are now a bunch of test channels listed between 735 and 900.
Anyone else seeing this?

vegggas

There is also a rumor that HSI is gettting a speed upgrade this month. Sorry for being O/T but Vegggas, is this true?

If we do get an upgrade it probably wont be that big of a deal. Cox Phoenix has 9/1 and 6/512, so if we matched it, all we'd see is downstream speed increases (which is nice, but above 5Mb/s its hard to tell the difference unless you're downloading linux distros on BT or something). Of course Phoenix also has Verizon FIOS competing, here we have Embarq sitting on their hands.

Vegggas, do you know how good support for cablecard is here in LV? Is it just as bad as everywhere else? Has it gotten any better lately?

No, But I still can't get digital phone in my area yet either :(
I do know that a major upgrade is taking place where all the nodes are being upgraded, although I don't know the specific details

vegggas

Will this "upgrade" provide stronger signals, too? The signal levels at my location have always been low. Most analog channels are fuzzy with wavy lines going through them and I have NEVER been able to access the VOD channel. I've gotten an error message on that channel on EVERY box I have ever had. It's so bad it seems like I have regularly scheduled service calls each month. Internet speed also seems considerably slower than the actual speed I'm paying for. Their service techs have never been able to fix my problems. I just have to live with it.

Anyone using an indoor antenna to get OTA stations? My experience, so far, has been disappointing. Its the one thing keeping from going to Dish. BTW, you can tell what NFL Network HD game will be shown on INHD2 by scrolling thru the program guide on the NFL Network SD channel 317, and seeing which game has the HD bug next to it. Finally, any chance of getting a FiOS type deal here in Las Vegas? (EMBARQ?) Looked at the website of Verizon FiOS...looks outstanding with tons of channels and GREAT prices.

It was a hot topic last month, even getting mentioned several times on SportsCenter. There were stories about it on all the major sports websites. I'm surprised you missed it. Here's a link to one article. They all basically say the same thing.


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-blackouts071106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Thanks for the heads up. I guess I had a sort of disconnect with the issue after banging my head against the wall so many times over this nonsense. Wasn't following it as close as I thought. I'm glad to see Selig feel the pain, too. Perhaps it will prompt real action.

Of course Phoenix also has Verizon FIOS competing, here we have Embarq sitting on their hands.
You are misinformed. Verizon doesn't service Arizona at all. We're stuck with the abomination that is Qwest and their 5/896 max for DSL. The places that have actual fiber competition like DC get 15/2 as the high end and 9/1 as the base from Cox.

Ah sorry, I thought I read it somewhere. Perhaps I was thinking of somewhere else...

Wow, Lots of questions...
You guys do know that I have nothing to do with all this, right? I just follow the cable and sat industry as a whole and get better intel than the average person :p
I have no idea about internet or HSI increases, as that really does not interest me, especially since most anything above about 4MB is limited once you go outside of the local Cox network and onto the national backbone and onto other networks where they may be limited. As it is, and what I heard is that over 95% of websites are serving up content at under 1MB anyway... so, what's the point?

Back yo my local programming... It appears that the test channels are digital and map to the standard analog lineup - Might this be the first phase of the total digital simulcast?

vegggas

Will this "upgrade" provide stronger signals, too? The signal levels at my location have always been low. Most analog channels are fuzzy with wavy lines going through them and I have NEVER been able to access the VOD channel. I've gotten an error message on that channel on EVERY box I have ever had. It's so bad it seems like I have regularly scheduled service calls each month. Internet speed also seems considerably slower than the actual speed I'm paying for. Their service techs have never been able to fix my problems. I just have to live with it.
As far as I know, Neighborhood node levels, where the signal is converted from fiber to RF is, already at an optimum level and can't be raised per se. The problem you are experiencing, may stem either between the node and your house or at your house. The probem you are desribing sounds like heavy ingress and high interference levels, due to damamged or open lines. The wavy lines are from the outside signals leaking into the cable lines from, a common culprit, are nails through the wiring or cuts in the shielding in the home.
A good test for the homes wiring is to do the following:
Find the demarcation point where the cable comes into the home and disconnect it. This removes the incoming signal, but leaves your internal wiring connected. Connect various outlets directly to the TV's (can't use the STB) and scan the local channels on various Displays. IF you can receive and pick up some of the local channels, then your home's wiring is compromised and is allowing interference onto the system. The clearer the picture, the worse the wiring is allowing signals into the system. You may be able to trace specific lines by disconnecting different feeds and seeing where the signal is strongest, but YMMV.

vegggas
edit: I would be happy to try to resolve this with you over this thread, or via PM if you are willing to try a few things.
v

edit: I would be happy to try to resolve this with you over this thread, or via PM if you are willing to try a few things.
v

Thanks. We could do this within the thread as this info may be useful to others having similar problems. BTW, I live in a condo and all cable connections are locked in a box outside the unit I live in. Not sure if that is a big problem or not. I assume it would be.

Hmmm. Condo you say!
Your interference is also related to all the other dwellings connected to you cable feed. Any and or all of them could be causing the interference and back feeding into your TV (and system). MDU's are notoriously known to have bad connections during the building pahse and then having various residents trying to hack into the cable too. All of that adds to the nise problem.

vegggas

Hmmm. Condo you say!
Your interference is also related to all the other dwellings connected to you cable feed. Any and or all of them could be causing the interference and back feeding into your TV (and system). MDU's are notoriously known to have bad connections during the building pahse and then having various residents trying to hack into the cable too. All of that adds to the nise problem.

vegggas

So, in other words, you're saying that I should move? ;) Believe me, I wish I could, but that's not going to happen for at least two more years. I have E* and get excellent PQ from them. As soon as they provide Vegas locals in HD (early 2007?) I'll be dumping Cox video services and just keeping the internet through them. But, in the mean time, it would be nice to at least have access to the VOD channel. It's pretty frustrating not having something every other digital subscriber has. :(

What I'm saying is that since you are on a shared, private cable infrastructure in your building, there might be little that can be fixed, in terms of you and your neighbors interference issues. If the internal cabling is at fault, then no amount of increased signal will help overcome the Megawatts of power from OTA transmitters.
On the other side of things, sending the signal as digital instead of analog, makes it more immune to interference. Currently, 3, 5, 8, and 13 are sent digitally to all digital STB's and by the looks of the current channels being tested, most of the analog signals will be available as digital simulcast VERY soon.

vegggas

Condo's are often wire in series. Cable in to first TV outlet/ 2-way splitter-----------second outlet/ 2 way splitter---------third outlet/etc. You loose 3.5 db at each splitter. Say you have a value of 10 at the cable feed. The third outlet would = -0.5 db. THis would usually be acceptable. But if you cable feed is 5 db your in trouble.
The second thing to consider is the quaility/installation of the splitters and fittings. Not all fittings/splitters are created equal.

Questions:

1. How old is the condo?

2. Wired with RG6 or R59?

3. Is it wired in series? If you open the outlet nearest the outside Cox box, does it have a splitter? If you disconnect the feed does all the TV's/cable modem go out?

4. If you connect the feed to the condo directly to a TV is the picture quaility improved?

5. What splitters (brand) are used? Some will have a Mhz rating. Less than 1 Ghz = Bad.

Answer the above questions and we may be able to help you.

Eddie

To follow up FastEddieLV's post, some condos are set up as home runs to each unit from an 8-way or similar splitter. The last place I lived in was built in 1996 and used this method for distribution.
After I went through and replaced the crappy 550Mhz splitters in the walls and fixed the TAPED ON and TWISTED ON & FRAYED FITTINGS, I had a much better signal, but still had interference issues, even though the signal was high enough. Eventually I had a contractor come out and replace the main (locked in the box) 8-way splitter for my building with multiple 2-ways, the isolation from the other dwellings was elimintated, even though my signal level was decreased.
I still think one of my neighbors was trying to use the coax and rabbit ears together to get a signal and causing all the problems.

vegggas

Anyone using an indoor antenna to get OTA stations? My experience, so far, has been disappointing. Its the one thing keeping from going to Dish. BTW, you can tell what NFL Network HD game will be shown on INHD2 by scrolling thru the program guide on the NFL Network SD channel 317, and seeing which game has the HD bug next to it. Finally, any chance of getting a FiOS type deal here in Las Vegas? (EMBARQ?) Looked at the website of Verizon FiOS...looks outstanding with tons of channels and GREAT prices.


I got every channel using an indoor antenna in North Las Vegas (Camino Al Norte/Ann). You just really need to play with the positioning to get results. Mine, for example, ended up on top of a 6 foot book case facing north.

Anyone using an indoor antenna to get OTA stations? My experience, so far, has been disappointing.

Yes, but I don't recommend it. If you can't get a channel with some contortion of a $2 Radio Shack pair of bunny ears (VHF) or a bow-tie (UHF) than don't waste your money on the myriad of snake-oil antennas out there. The laws of physics are pretty clear, all of the antenna designs with significantly better gain are large enough that you'll want to mount them outdoors.

(edit-To echo what VegasFlyby said, you need your antenna as high as possible and as far away from anything electronic as possible. My bunny ears are also on top of a bookshelf.)

Questions:

1. How old is the condo?

18 years

2. Wired with RG6 or R59?

R59

3. Is it wired in series? If you open the outlet nearest the outside Cox box, does it have a splitter?

No.

If you disconnect the feed does all the TV's/cable modem go out?

No.

4. If you connect the feed to the condo directly to a TV is the picture quaility improved?

No.

5. What splitters (brand) are used? Some will have a Mhz rating. Less than 1 Ghz = Bad.

I have never seen any splitters (in the house anyway). The TV and modem each have their own line. Neither line is split within the house.



Answer the above questions and we may be able to help you.

Eddie

Bruin, with all your outlet's being R59, it may be tough to do anything without changing out the wire. COX stanards are RG6 for all digital and modem operations.

RG6 has at least two major advantages over R59. One, the center conductor is thicker allowing creater capacity. Two, the shielding is usually better as well.

R59 Cable that's 18 years old is most likely your problem. However the quaility of the terminations/fittings will affect the performance as well. Also I've seen the COX feed at the box being the problem as well. The building being 18 years old tells me it was installed long before any consideration was given to digital/modems being used. I believe it was installed before COX was in Las Vegas as well.

I sorry my friend, other than changing the fittings behind the wall plates, upgrading to RG6, and COX upgrading the tap/infastructure I don't have any other ideas.

The Sinclair stations have started using new logos reflecting their new affialiations.

KVMY 21 now has an awful looking MY LVTV logo.
KVCW 33 now has a CW Las Vegas logo. It takes up way to much screen real estate, but at least it looks professionally designed.

It looks like KVBC fixed the blur-o-vision on their encoders. NBC football is now much more watachable.

Bruin, with all your outlet's being R59, it may be tough to do anything without changing out the wire. COX stanards are RG6 for all digital and modem operations.

RG6 has at least two major advantages over R59. One, the center conductor is thicker allowing creater capacity. Two, the shielding is usually better as well.

.


I have RG6 in all areas of my house except from the main house splitter to the living room splitter and then the piece that goes up to the second floor. Both of those areas are impossible for me to get to to change them out. I tried once to replace the run between floors but unfortunately it doesnt just run straight up from one outlet to the other. there seems to be a couple of twists n turns between outlets. The other one must run UNDER the house because I can't see any cable entering the house from the outside. I suppose Cox would charge a small fortune to come out to upgrade just those two runs?

I suppose Cox would charge a small fortune to come out to upgrade just those two runs?

They shouldn't charge you a dime to upgrade your lines. In the 13 years I've lived at my current location, I've had 3 "upgrades" of cabling, both inside and out. They have done extensive upgrades outside of my condo unit, replacing all outside cables and connections. They even dug up huge holes in the grounds surrounding my unit to replace whatever they were replacing at the time. All were done at no cost to me. Unfortunately for me, none of their hard work has ever paid off in terms of giving me reliable, stable service. Just today, my internet connection has gone down twice. I guess I just live in a Cox "black hole" zone.

The wiring in your home is just that - YOUR WIRING. Cable co responsibility ends at the demarcation point where it enters the home or dwelling. It's sometimes referred to be where it leaves the street, or leaves the pole, although they will usually redo wiring to the side of the house to keep good intentioned people off poles.
At one time cable and telephone lines were the property of the service provider (remember leasing a phone company owned phone?) but a reform act in the 80's allowed the homeowner to install and own their own wiring and allowing competing providers access to your home wiring.
Any "Free" work they do is done usually in the spirit of getting a good signal to the customer. Any rework you want done is totally up to you.


Bruin, your wiring issues is not likely to be outside, but rather in your walls.

vegggas

Does Cox still offer their "service assurance" plan or whatever it is where you pay an extra few bucks a month and they do any necessary maintenance on internal wiring?

Two weeks ago I bought the Direct TV HDR to go with my HDTV-ready set.
I think everything is hooked up correctly, but so far I have yet to see anything in HD.

Is it possible that there just hasn't been anything on in HD yet?

I do not subscribe yet to the HD Channel package nor are the local channels in HD here.

The only programs that I see listed as HD are on the NFL channel, but I think I read that the preseason games aren't in HD.

Just a little confused and was hoping there was another Vegan here that could help out.

TIA

If you have an antenna connected to your receiver you can pick up some of the local channels in HD. It would be like channel 3-1. Other then that to get HD you need to subscribe to either the HD Package, HBO, or Showtime.

I have Directv and every time there is a primetime Padres game on ESPN it gets blacked out. Do they show this on another channel that I can get on Directv, or do I have to get the extra innings package? I am sure this has been asked before, but thanks for your time.

I have Directv and every time there is a primetime Padres game on ESPN it gets blacked out. Do they show this on another channel that I can get on Directv, or do I have to get the extra innings package? I am sure this has been asked before, but thanks for your time.

The only way to see the Padres games in Las Vegas is by subscribing to Cox cable. Unlike most other RSNs, Cox isn't legally required to give the satellite companies access to Channel 4 San Diego because of the terrestrial loophole. Also, because we live in Padres home territory, even subscribing to extra-inning won't help because the extra-innings feeds from the opposing teams are also blacked out.

Butcher.........

Get an antenna that will work for your area and connect it to the antenna input on your Satellite box (I am assuming you have the HR10-250). You can then scan for OTA channels (over the air) it will find numerous digital channels, but 3-1 is NBCHD, 8-1 is CBSHD, 10-1 is PBSHD, 13-1 is ABCHD.

I would strongly recommend if nothing else you subscribe to DiscoveryHD, it is the most beautiful channel out there.

NVLANDBUTCHER,

Return that HDTivo, and curse the idiot salesperson who tried to pawn it off on you. In about a month, it will be obsolete. Directv will launch Las Vegas locals in HD via satelite, and that HDTivo you bought is not capable of receiving those channels. You will need the new HD DVR that they are hopefully launching next month as well. (Or so they have promised). Right now the only way to get any local HD is to install a good outdoor VHF antenna pointed at Black Mountain. And you will still only get a stable signal if you live in an area that provides good reception. The Tivo you have now has a crappy HD receiver that seldom locks in a good picture that won't constantly freeze and break-up. It has five year old technology.

NVLANDBUTCHER,

Return that HDTivo, and curse the idiot salesperson who tried to pawn it off on you. In about a month, it will be obsolete. Directv will launch Las Vegas locals in HD via satelite, and that HDTivo you bought is not capable of receiving those channels. You will need the new HD DVR that they are hopefully launching next month as well. (Or so they have promised). Right now the only way to get any local HD is to install a good outdoor VHF antenna pointed at Black Mountain. And you will still only get a stable signal if you live in an area that provides good reception. The Tivo you have now has a crappy HD receiver that seldom locks in a good picture that won't constantly freeze and break-up. It has five year old technology.

I agree, Stay away from anying Tivo or Directv, Go OTA, Cox but better yet, Dish Network for the most HD out there (no locals HD yet, but the Vip622 has a great OTA HD/Digital tuner).

Two weeks ago I bought the Direct TV HDR to go with my HDTV-ready set.
I think everything is hooked up correctly, but so far I have yet to see anything in HD.

Is it possible that there just hasn't been anything on in HD yet?

I do not subscribe yet to the HD Channel package nor are the local channels in HD here.

The only programs that I see listed as HD are on the NFL channel, but I think I read that the preseason games aren't in HD.

Just a little confused and was hoping there was another Vegan here that could help out.

TIA


OK, let me rephrase the question as I have seen hints of the pee-ing match between DirectTV and Dish Network in every forum; it's like the Ford-Chevy debate to me......

"Without subscribing to any "extra" HD programming, has there been ANYTHING on in HD that I can tune in to to see if my picture is in HD and that my system is hooked up right?"

I have the SPORTS Pak and TOTAL CHOICE PLUS as my standard program package.

I will try the OTA Antenna as soon as I "know" my set-up is correct.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Yea, return that HD TiVo! D* wont have a DVR for HD that will work with the new HD channels until later this year I hear.

And Foghorn, FWIW, my boss just got a Sony SXRD HDTV, he has Dish ($35/mo). For him to get the HD channels, his bill would increase 142% to $85/mo, plus a $200 setup fee. So Dish isnt some magical solution to the HD situation. They have the most, but the most will cost you. A lot.

I told him that with just the $42/mo regular package from Cox I have the local channels in HD (3,5,8...) for free given my QAM tuner.

OK, let me rephrase the question as I have seen hints of the pee-ing match between DirectTV and Dish Network in every forum; it's like the Ford-Chevy debate to me......

"Without subscribing to any "extra" HD programming, has there been ANYTHING on in HD that I can tune in to to see if my picture is in HD and that my system is hooked up right?"

I have the SPORTS Pak and TOTAL CHOICE PLUS as my standard program package.

I will try the OTA Antenna as soon as I "know" my set-up is correct.

Thanks for the suggestions.

The first 5 minutes of HD PPV are free, so you can turn to channel 99 at the start of a movie and see if that works.

PS. To get any decent help, you're going to have to give us more info about your setup. What model receiver or you using, what type of DirecTV satellite dish you're using, how is your tv connected (you need component or hdmi to get a true hd picture), and what output resolution is your receiver set to.


In my opinion, you should have called up a DirecTV installer to do the upgrade as you're almost certainly not set up correctly for the changes in HD coming soon.

OK, let me rephrase the question as I have seen hints of the pee-ing match between DirectTV and Dish Network in every forum; it's like the Ford-Chevy debate to me......

"Without subscribing to any "extra" HD programming, has there been ANYTHING on in HD that I can tune in to to see if my picture is in HD and that my system is hooked up right?"

I have the SPORTS Pak and TOTAL CHOICE PLUS as my standard program package.

I will try the OTA Antenna as soon as I "know" my set-up is correct.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Well, since you DON'T subscribe to any HD programming from D* you won't see ANY HD on your TV unless you hook up an OTA antenna to your receiver and scan the local channels. You keep asking if there is anything on in HD and, YES, there's plenty to view on a daily basis. All network primetime sitcoms and drama shows are broadcast in HD. Also late night shows like Leno, Letterman and Conan O'Brien are broadcast in HD. In order to have your TV "hooked up" correctly, you need to connect your HD receiver to your HDTV via either component cables or by HDMI. Also, make sure your D* receiver is set to output either at 720p or 1080i, whichever is the native resolution of your TV.

I'm kind of puzzled at how nvlandbutcher even managed to get an HD receiver activated without adding the HD pack. I thought that was required for six months on leased receivers.

I'm kind of puzzled at how nvlandbutcher even managed to get an HD receiver activated without adding the HD pack. I thought that was required for six months on leased receivers.

He stated that he bought his receiver.

He stated that he bought his receiver.

But you don't actually buy them anymore, now it's a "lease upgrade fee".

He could have purchased it on eBay or from another private party..............

Don't worry about all the opinions... we all have them. I have been using an HD-Tivo to receive HD both from DirecTV and OTA for several years and the signal I had on OTA was gorgeous!

I was in the Flamingo/Ft.Apache area with a wing type antenna in the attic... it had a 10db boost amplifier and all the digital channels were coming in over 90% strength.

Yes, "eventually" DTV will come out with an Mpeg4 DVR replacement for the HD-Tivo, but don't hold your breath.... and when they do they will make you a "deal" to trade-up to the new Mpeg4 DVR and dish. I already have the dish, but am not really looking forward to the DVR.

DTV may not have the most bandwidth and offer HD-Lite as these snobs would say... but the picture is beautiful on my 10' wide screen from my HD-Tivo! Besides the operability and intelligence of any Tivo software makes the DVR's from Cox (can we all gag on the 8300 POS), and the stone-age software from Dish... which is really just a VCR with an internal HD instead of tape!

I have had them all and they all have good points and bad points.... each person has to choose their own poison!

There is good info here though........ Get an OTA antenna, point it at black mountain, scan for digital channels (the Tivo will give you the choice of scanning for digital or analog or both... just do digital... then throw away anything that does not end in "-1"

As George said the first 5 minutes of the PPV on channel 99 (the only HD PPV channel... which is a pity) and you can see what you have. Set the green light (resolution) on the front panel to whatever is the native resolution of your display device... 720p or 1080i prepare to enter another dimension.... you will not want to go back ..............

Oh yes, and definately hook up via HDMI or Component... whichever your Display has available! If you have a display with an HDMI connection try that first... if you do not get any sound and are running direct to the TV without going through a receiver go into setup (on the Tivo) and turn off Dolby Digital... most TV's do not have the capability of decoding DD.

If you have an HDMI switching receiver... good luck... some work with the HDMI off the Tivo some do not... my Denon would not, but my new Pioneer does... go figure!

But you don't actually buy them anymore, now it's a "lease upgrade fee".

Not true.

....
"Without subscribing to any "extra" HD programming, has there been ANYTHING on in HD that I can tune in to to see if my picture is in HD and that my system is hooked up right?"...Thanks for the suggestions.

You can buy a HD DVD player and buy a HD DVD movie.

You are welcome.

Yes, "eventually" DTV will come out with an Mpeg4 DVR replacement for the HD-Tivo, but don't hold your breath.... and when they do they will make you a "deal" to trade-up to the new Mpeg4 DVR and dish. I already have the dish, but am not really looking forward to the DVR.


"Eventually" is the very specific date of September 18th, which is right around the time DirecTV will start HD LiL for Vegas.

Sadly enough, one can still walk into Best Buy and purchase an HD 10-250 DVR. They are still pushing these obsolete dinosaurs on unsuspecting buyers for $399.

Sadly enough, one can still walk into Best Buy and purchase an HD 10-250 DVR. They are still pushing these obsolete dinosaurs on unsuspecting buyers for $399.
MMM please explain more. I have had one of these sense they came out. Why are they obsolete and whats replacing them?

Not only is BB charging $399 for the HR 10-250, but look really close at the sign and you'll see you are not buying the product, you are LEASING it.

Obsolete is a rather harsh term to describe the life of the HR 10-250. The unit will continue to function as it is. It just will not be capable of receiving the HD Locals when they come on line, nor will they be able to receive any new HD channels added to the lineup (ie Fox Sports Net). It's rumored that the entire HD lineup may go to MPEG4 by the end of next year which means you'll no longer be able to see HBO/SHO/ESPN etc... unless you upgrade. Chances are, DirecTV will have a fair offer to swap out the box when the time comes. If not, when you threaten to quit the service, you will get a fair deal.

OTA functionality will not change. SD programming will be available for the next several years.

"The first 5 minutes of HD PPV are free, so you can turn to channel 99 at the start of a movie and see if that works. "

That's more of what I was looking for. thanks.

I just wanted to tune to an HD program to see what kind of PQ I was getting before jumping in to subscribing.

As far as the other things go, I do have Component Video (TV has no HDMI plug) and a 60" Hitachi that does 720p and/or 1080i; it's about 7 years old. Sound is straight to the TV for now, not thru an A\V receiver.

I have noticed that since the upgrade, my display and sound will go black for a second or two every so often and everyonce in a while it will go out for several minutes. Is that common or is that serious enough that i need to call the service company?

Thanks again.

"Eventually" is the very specific date of September 18th, which is right around the time DirecTV will start HD LiL for Vegas.


George... I take their "dates" with a dose of realism... they first promised the Mpeg upgrade in spring... then it was June... now September.

I have a vacation home in Utah and although they already have Mpeg4 up in Utah... they do not have the Mpeg4 HD-DVR... and no idea when they will!

All they will say is that it's coming!

It's rumored that the entire HD lineup may go to MPEG4 by the end of next year which means you'll no longer be able to see HBO/SHO/ESPN etc... unless you upgrade. .



I wonder if this would include NFL Sunday Ticket HD broadcasts??

I have noticed that since the upgrade, my display and sound will go black for a second or two every so often and everyonce in a while it will go out for several minutes. Is that common or is that serious enough that i need to call the service company?

That is not normal. You'll need to have the problem diagnosed and repaired.

Las Vegas is now the 43rd largest DMA, up 5 positions from last season.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060824/tivo_cox.html?.v=3

http://www.tvpredictions.com/coxtivo082406.htm

Hopefully Las Vegas would be one of the "select markets" so I can dump this crappy DVR software!


Mark

Cox channel updates:
Looks like they are moving the two analog educational channels (70 and 71) to the digital tier soon (see crawl screens on those channels), opening up more space for their continued improvements and additions.

The digital simulcast looks to be progressing - On the IPG, they added about 40 more channels in the 800's for testing purposes. Maybe the removal of the two edu channels are going to feed the rest of the simulcast for a complete digital linup? Users will have a complete digital lineup to their digital STB's and increased DVR storage for users who recorded the previous analog channels.

More info on the internet speeds going up again. Numbers I heard were 10Mbps.

More HD coming soon. Still hearing MTVHD and A&EHD as corporate contracts, but more channels are still being negotiated.

No known dates for any of these as public releases, other than the same mantra of "before the end of the year".
My best industry guess - I suspect that digital simulcast will be out first (since it's showing up) so they can fine tune any issues and immediately improve all digital users experiences. After simulcast, then adding speed increases, then after addressing any remaining space issues, launch new HD channels. The HD channels need the largest chunk of undisturbed space, so as things are moving around, they could get disturbed, so that is why I think they are being added later instead of sooner.

vegggas

Tivo on Cox DVR's.
That was speculated back around the start of the year, but it apparanty took a while to get contracts between the two. The Echostar loss may have pushed the Cox side to make an agreement sooner instead of doing their own development, which may have been under Tivo lawer scruitiny.
The biggest winner in all these Tivo conversions on Comcast and Cox is local advertisers. They will now have their ads seen while using FF, REW and Pause on the DVR's instead of seeing the fast motion of the program material. This was a major feature announced by tivo in it's relation to porting out software to various outlets.

vegggas

10Mb/s? Yikes... I just want more upstream... (1Mb/s).

The TiVo on Cox situation is a tough one. I've been waiting for an S3 TiVo for a while now and this confuses the situation.

From what I read in the news release, it will be a subscription to upgrade your existing box to Tivo. It'll be interesting to see the new pricing structure on DVRs.

Tivo on Cox DVR's.
.
The biggest winner in all these Tivo conversions on Comcast and Cox is local advertisers. They will now have their ads seen while using FF, REW and Pause on the DVR's instead of seeing the fast motion of the program material.
vegggas


NO THANKS...i will keep the cox dvr software if it is an option....why pay for an upgrade tivo subscription to be able to watch commercials. I record lots of stuff that I could watch in realtime just to avoid those crappy commercials.

NO THANKS...i will keep the cox dvr software if it is an option....why pay for an upgrade tivo subscription to be able to watch commercials. I record lots of stuff that I could watch in realtime just to avoid those crappy commercials.

I can't believe they expect people to turn in the 8300 and pay more to watch commercials??????????

That's why I got the 8300 in the first place. :rolleyes:

Ummm... It's the same hardware with a different user interface. It would use a Tivo influenced interface instead of a Scientific Atlanta one.
Not to worry too much though, it's still a ways off and we will be able to hear all about the Comcast version before we ever get it anyway.
By that time, OCAP will be in full swing and you can go buy your own hardware and use the OCAP software to talk to the headend to get authorization and all your programming.

vegggas

NO THANKS...i will keep the cox dvr software if it is an option

Well I wouldn't expect it to be an option as Tivo will probably claim the SA software is "infringing" on their copyrights. If Tivo keeps getting their way, soon every DVR will essentially be a "Tivo".

Tivo=Microsoft.

Wonderful, now the DVR landscape will all be the same and boring. Just like the PC's.

Tivo=Microsoft.

Wonderful, now the DVR landscape will all be the same and boring. Just like the PC's.
So, how do you like your Tivo/MS DVR from Dish? Afterall, it's stolen from Tivo...

As for Cox and Comcast, Tivo won't be the only interface. It will be an "upgrade option" that incorporates Tivo exclusive patented and trademarked features like "Season Pass", "Keyword Search", and ""Kids Zone". The current interface will still be available as a base option, due to agreements between the parties to carry the Tivo vesion.

vegggas

So, how do you like your Tivo/MS DVR from Dish? Afterall, it's stolen from Tivo...

As for Cox and Comcast, Tivo won't be the only interface. It will be an "upgrade option" that incorporates Tivo exclusive patented and trademarked features like "Season Pass", "Keyword Search", and ""Kids Zone". The current interface will still be available as a base option, due to agreements between the parties to carry the Tivo vesion.

vegggas

So you'll have to pay extra? HA HA!!!!!

We at Dish do not have to pay extra.

I guess all hopes for better firmwares for your SA8300HD's are over. You'll just have to fork over more bucks than you already pay Cox to get fixed services from TIVO! :eek:

I spoke with Mike, the chief engineer at chs. 21 and 33 today. He confirmed to me that they have upgraded channel 33 DT to 1080i. It is slated to go online on Sept. 5th barring any problems (as we all know sometimes occur in upgrades.) If all goes well, the former WB HD programing will continune in Las Vegas in HD on the new CW on 33-1 (or at least HD-lite)

I spoke with Mike, the chief engineer at chs. 21 and 33 today. He confirmed to me that they have upgraded channel 33 DT to 1080i. It is slated to go online on Sept. 5th barring any problems (as we all know sometimes occur in upgrades.) If all goes well, the former WB HD programing will continune in Las Vegas in HD on the new CW on 33-1 (or at least HD-lite)

I guess that means the dead shell of USDTV will finally be put to rest (at least in Las Vegas where it never had a subscriber base anyways). Hopefully, Sinclair will come to an agreement with Cox and DirecTV for HD retransmit consent. (I don't exactly see Cox agreeing to the kinds of per-subscribers fees Sinclair supposedly wants, but perhaps Cox would be willing to carry the Tube in exchange for the rights.)

Sadly from what I read we won't be getting the Tivo software. The software is for the Cox places that use Motorola boxes not the SA ones. I do wonder if you get a new remote though. You got to have the thumbs up and thumbs down.

As for the D* HD DVR it is out in LA right now. Who knows when the rest of the country can get one.

I wouldn't count on the USDTV channels being removed any time soon, if ever.
All that the station is doing is upgrading their infrastructure to carry an HD signal, where it only had an SD signal before. Look at PBS, they transmit 1080i, and have several mpeg2 multicast signals, wheras 33 could still carry multiple mpeg4 multicast streams like they do now.
The good news is that there is going to be another source of HD programming available in the area. If it's not a full bitrate signal, then maybe the network can run a reduced bitrate at the source (HD-lite) to keep the images from breaking up like current stations with multicasts do.

As mentioned elsewhere, the Tivo deal for Comcast, and now for Cox is to deploy Moto hardware Tivo development software first, then SA hardware development right after.
No matter what, as I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't look for it here in Vegas until at least close to this time next year, or at least summer time.


vegggas

When will the 8300MR be available in Vegas?
Will it have a burner?
When will the 15meg cable modem service be available?
Is there any way to get an 8300HD to commercial skip?

Thanks :cool:

When will the 8300MR be available in Vegas?
Probably not until SA redesigns it - it's not OCAP compatible and the MR functions would no longer work once the OCAP standard interface is deployed in the very near future,

Will it have a burner? One version did.

When will the 15meg cable modem service be available?
Who knows? It's not like there is any timeline for these things, although I did hear upgraded speeds are coming, (read yesterday's posts), although, what's the pont if servers don't put out much of anything above 4mbs upload speeds.

Is there any way to get an 8300HD to commercial skip?
Thanks :cool: Yes, Press the button with the two arrows ">>"

vegggas

I have basic Cox Cable. I can get CBS 8.1, but it doesn't look like I get any other HD channels. Is there a workaround or will I have to get a dedicated over the air antenna and shift between my analog cable video source and the OAR source?

I have basic Cox Cable. I can get CBS 8.1, but it doesn't look like I get any other HD channels. Is there a workaround or will I have to get a dedicated over the air antenna and shift between my analog cable video source and the OAR source?
You don't mention the tuner you are using and what format you are tuning. The basic cable signal has all the major channels in QAM format available. If your in-home wiring is poor, you will pick up the OTA 8VSB feed through your home's wiring, and maybe that is what you are seeing.
I can easily pick up the OTA 8.1 feed by disconnecting the cable from the wall and using it as an antenna, but it's gone when I connect to the cable line, unless I switch to a QAM tuner.

vegggas

I wouldn't count on the USDTV channels being removed any time soon, if ever.

Counterexample: 99-10 Lifetime and 99-50 Starz were removed from KVMY when they added the Tube to 21-3. Those channels are still not uplinked on any of the stations broadcasting USDTV in Las Vegas. Given that Las Vegas was the least sucessful USDTV market, I expect the service will be discontinued in Las Vegas even if a buyer emerges for their assets in bankruptcy court.

PS. I think that even if they didn't fail so quickly, in Las Vegas they'd run in to trouble when their contracts for bandwidth expired. For example, KBLR recently became a NBC-Universal O&O, so presumably they wouldn't be keen on selling bandwidth to a third-party, especially a pay service that doesn't carry any of the NBC-Universal cable channels.

Article in today's (Sunday) Las Vegas Review Journal about Cox and CSTV having issues about adding the UNLV games this year which is part of the new Mountain West channel. Cox said they don't want to raise rates for non-unlv football loving fans or something to that effect .. ha ha ha.... Cox fighting to keep your rates from rising a dime a month ! (which is what cstv is saying their offer was )

I have basic Cox Cable. I can get CBS 8.1, but it doesn't look like I get any other HD channels. Is there a workaround or will I have to get a dedicated over the air antenna and shift between my analog cable video source and the OAR source?
I also have cox basic and get 3-1, 5-1, 8-1, 11-1 (PBS) and 13-1 as in the clear QAM256. Through just the coax I get from Cox. I used to know what channels they were on but I cant remember anymore and my TV does all the mapping for me so I dont need to remember anymore.

Has anyone had trouble receiving 21-1 the last few days? I have an indoor antenna hooked up to my Vip622 and can get all the UHF stations except 21. The signal strength is in the 80's, but no picture or sound. I re-scanned the channels, but it didn't help. Up until Friday everything was fine, now I can't get the channel in no matter how hard I try.

Has anyone had trouble receiving 21-1 the last few days? I have an indoor antenna hooked up to my Vip622 and can get all the UHF stations except 21. The signal strength is in the 80's, but no picture or sound. I re-scanned the channels, but it didn't help. Up until Friday everything was fine, now I can't get the channel in no matter how hard I try.

It's working fine for me. However, a few days back vegggas used his analyzer on the channel and the transport stream was looking buggy so maybe your reciver can't deal with that.

I lost 21 DT on the HD-10-250 as well. I think they did some tweaking with the psip or encoding and now the receivers can't decode even though the signal meter shows they are on the air.

Can't all of this be put in simpler language?

1. When can we expect that Direct TV will carry Las Vegas "locals" in HD?

2. Will the presently available HD receivers from Direct TV become outmoded instantly, or will they continue to be usable? And if they are usable, will they have any serious limitations?

3. Will the Direct TV receiver be capable of automatically switching to 480i or 480p for standard broadcasts? Or will everything be upconverted to 1080i? An old Hughes HD receiver that I owned did NOT have this automatic switching ability. It was either 480i or 1080i, but both were not available.

4. Can one anticipate that the HD picture and sound recovered from the satellite will be of comparable quality to that obtained from the 8300HD?

5. When (if ever) will more HD channels be offered by Cox?
I'm still waiting for ESPN2. What about others?

1. Next month.
2. The MPEG2 receivers (i.e. HD Tivo) will remain usable for what they get now, but not for any new HD programming, including HD locals via sat.
3. Don't have an answer for that, check the appropriate forum for more info.
4. The PQ via sat will be degraded compared to what is available from Cox. As for whether this will be noticeable, that depends on your equipment and how picky you are.
5. They will be available when they're available. A&E HD recently went live on Cox San Diego, and MHD is available pretty much everywhere except Vegas, so those are likely to be the next 2 additions. No word on ESPN2HD, HDNet, or FoodHD :(

You don't mention the tuner you are using and what format you are tuning. The basic cable signal has all the major channels in QAM format available. If your in-home wiring is poor, you will pick up the OTA 8VSB feed through your home's wiring, and maybe that is what you are seeing.
I can easily pick up the OTA 8.1 feed by disconnecting the cable from the wall and using it as an antenna, but it's gone when I connect to the cable line, unless I switch to a QAM tuner.

vegggas

I'm using the the built-in HDTV tuner in a Sony flat panel. It's at my mom's house so I'm not sure as to what model they're using. It's wired straight from the wall to the TV. I'll have to check to see if remapping the TV will allow me to view the other HDTV channels.

Has anyone had trouble receiving 21-1 the last few days? I have an indoor antenna hooked up to my Vip622 and can get all the UHF stations except 21. The signal strength is in the 80's, but no picture or sound. I re-scanned the channels, but it didn't help. Up until Friday everything was fine, now I can't get the channel in no matter how hard I try.

Same here, I get around 85 with the Vip622 also but no picture, then the error. The 42 LCD does the same thing. CH 8.1 is stronger now for some reason but then 10 started to pixellate. I reoriented the clip ons and 21 still does not come in but fixed 10.

If 15 is real strong, then 39 won't come in so I have to comprimise the position to get all the channels. Not that I watch hispanic programming, I just like the latina weather ladies and the "variety" shows if you know what I mean.

Sherry Swenk, watch out!

I spoke with Mike, the chief engineer at chs. 21 and 33 today. He confirmed to me that they have upgraded channel 33 DT to 1080i. It is slated to go online on Sept. 5th barring any problems (as we all know sometimes occur in upgrades.) If all goes well, the former WB HD programing will continune in Las Vegas in HD on the new CW on 33-1 (or at least HD-lite)

My DirecTV guide is now showing Gilmore Girls in HD on 33-1 for 9/5 and the My TV HD programs on 21-1.

21 is fine now. The Tube is wonderful!

21 is fine now. The Tube is wonderful!

I still can't get it.

I still can't get it.

Now the audio from 21-1 has dropped. Picture is fine and The Tube is perfect.

I just finished watching Everyday Italian on Food Network HD.

Incredable show ;) . Giada's top button on her blouse was undone during the whole show. The food she made was good too :D

All this in stunning HD.

When is the Tube on 21.1?

When is the Tube on 21.1?

24/7 Music Videos. Not MTV, not too much (c)RAP or urban junk.

Not bad for free.

Isn't it on 21-3?, let me check...........

24/7 Music Videos. Not MTV, not too much (c)RAP or urban junk.

Not bad for free.

Isn't it on 21-3?, let me check...........

Ok...thanks. I'll have to do a rescan to get it.

KVCW 33-1 has joined the HD crowd!!! (1080i, can someone see if they have 5.1?)

KVMY-DT 21-1 is currently down, I'm guessing to switch the HD to 720p for My Network HD.

KVBC (RF2)
3-1 NBC HD (1080i DD5.1)
3-2 NBC Weather+ (480i)

KVVU (RF9)
5-1 Fox HD (720p DD5.1)
5-2 Fox 5 24/7 Weather (480i)

KLAS (RF7)
8-1 CBS HD (1080i)

KLVX (RF11)
10-1 PBS HD (1080i)
10-2 Local PBS SD (480i)
10-3 Create (480i)

KTNV (RF12)
13-1 ABC HD (720p DD5.1)
13-2 ABC SD (480i)

KINC (RF16)
15-1 Univision (480i)
15-2 Telefutura (480i)

KVMY (RF22)
21-1 My Network TV HD (720p)
21-3 The Tube (480i)

KVCW (RF29)
33-1 CW HD (1080i)

KBLR (RF40)
39-1 Telemundo (480i)