Does anyone know WHICH if ANY OTA antenna's will work in the Sun City Anthem area?

I live in one of the higher elevation area's not down in the canyons.

thanks...........


I have a house in SCA and can receive digital channels 3.1, 8.1 and 13.1. I am using a RS antenna model 15-1892. It costs about $50.

I noticed that CBS HD is showing up on Cox QAM at 8-1. STILL no dice on 102.

Ugh.

I have a house in SCA and can receive digital channels 3.1, 8.1 and 13.1. I am using a RS antenna model 15-1892. It costs about $50.

Thanks that is good to know ......... at least it gives me some hope that I might be able to pick up a few channels...

I am surprised you are not getting 10.1, that seemed to be one of the stronger channels at my previous address.........

I picked up a cheapy RCA vhf/uhf for $7 at Fry's. Using it in my 2nd floor bedroom works well for OTA high-def in my case. Though I'm only between 10 and 15mi from the broadcast antenna's. :)

Also, for those with an 8300HD, calling CoxLV and asking them to upgrade my box from SARA v1.87.x to v1.88.x was successful. Have not verified the "kick to live" bug is fixed, but do have the 128x ff/rew feature now. Looks like the firewire ports appear to be active too (via the diag screen).

Do the firewire ports work drectly to the TV.
I just requested the upgrade to use with my Mitsubshi 65831...
I can record to my RCA firewire drive from netcommand now on the ant & firewire imputs in HD beautifully now.

I know that KLAS has HD news, but I watched it today in HD for the first time in a while and it seemed like I was watching some high school news. Reporters seemed lost and unprofessional. To top it all off, KLAS had reporters talking with their microphones turned off. The talent looked awkward and it felt like this was their first news cast working together. Anyone else notice anything similar as of late from KLAS? Is it just the fact that I was watching on the weekend and they stick all of the rookies on the weekend shift? Don't get me wrong, the HD news is stunning but if all of their newscasts are as amateur as the one I saw today at 5, I’d rather watch in SD with a professional news team.

I know that KLAS has HD news, but I watched it today in HD for the first time in a while and it seemed like I was watching some high school news. Reporters seemed lost and unprofessional. To top it all off, KLAS had reporters talking with their microphones turned off. The talent looked awkward and it felt like this was their first news cast working together. Anyone else notice anything similar as of late from KLAS? Is it just the fact that I was watching on the weekend and they stick all of the rookies on the weekend shift? Don't get me wrong, the HD news is stunning but if all of their newscasts are as amateur as the one I saw today at 5, I’d rather watch in SD with a professional news team.

Gary Waddell, Paula Francis, and now Dave Courvoisier are the "A" anchors at KLAS and have been doing the Las Vegas news for decades. They are as professional as you get. From what I understand, Las Vegas is a stepping stone market for talent aspiring to work in a top 10 market/national news, so that's why you see the musical chairs of pretty boy and girl anchors and reporters on the weekend editions.

I'd rank the quality of the English language newscasts in Las Vegas:

1. KLAS channel 8
2. KVBC channel 3
.
. huge gap in quality
.
3. KVVU channel 5
4. KTNV channel 13

I tend to agree with the assessment of quality of news....and I do enjoy KLAS's HD efforts.

I do find it amusing that KLAS promotes their HD news with standard definition "commercials". Funny to watch them promote the "high definition quality" with a commercial that is not. Out of curiosity I emailed KLAS to ask them about it.

Emily Neilson responded:
We are implementing our HD in two phases. We currently can’t air commercials in HD, but that will change when the second phase is complete, which will be in the next few months.

We appreciate you watching and hope you let us know if you have any other questions or suggestions.

Also, for those with an 8300HD, calling CoxLV and asking them to upgrade my box from SARA v1.87.x to v1.88.x was successful. Have not verified the "kick to live" bug is fixed, but do have the 128x ff/rew feature now. Looks like the firewire ports appear to be active too (via the diag screen).

Hi Joe,

I was wondering if you could explain exactly what number you (or vegggas) called and who you spoke to to get the upgrade. I've got a 8300HD and would love to have some of the new features. I've been following this thread for a few weeks here, but both times I've called tech support and requested the upgrade I'm given the run around and told "if there was an upgrade available, I'm sure we would know about it, but since we don't there is nothing we can do for you." :confused:

Cheers!

-Chris

I don't have a number to call, just a friend, and I'm on the list for testing. The current newer release is for enabling some of the newer features, but it's not as stable as the current public release version. Some problems that exist are shows being deleted randomly for no reason. Another issue is resolution format conflicts that can cause reboots. There is another issue where you can't watch a currently recording program delayed and "catch up" to live without having a good chance of either rebooting or totally mucking up the mpeg on both tuners. Also, there is a possibility that the STB will brick and have to be swapped.
If, however, you want beta software to enable the extra features of a 4th FF and less chance of getting kicked out to live, you can't gripe about the failures and loss of recordings. You should be able to call around and ask for the software to enable the firewire ports to connect to your firewire equipped TV.

vegggas

ESPN2HD and ESPNU have been put on test channels. Looks good so far and they should be public Tuesday morning.
IMO - Still don't know why ESPN needs a second channel for HD yet. The two combined still don't make enough HD for a full 24 hour channel.

vegggas

Other news:
I'm told that chanel 707 (INHD2) will remain in the lineup as an events channel.
The next 30 - 45 days will have a lot of changes with more ADS (simulcast), adding and deletion of channels and re-organizing of the current digital lineup for more efficiency.

vegggas

ESPN2HD and ESPNU have been put on test channels. Looks good so far and they should be public Tuesday morning.
IMO - Still don't know why ESPN needs a second channel for HD yet. The two combined still don't make enough HD for a full 24 hour channel.

vegggas

You must not watch sports, um, ever. Overlapping live events. Nobody wants to watch a game on tape delay, it's useless for, how to we say, gambling purposes.

I guess I don't watch ESPN2 much. I've scanned the channel a few times, and it's been mostly non-HD content, except for the ALI rap stuff today.

http://hd.espn.com/hd/schedule.jsp -all dates and times shown are ET
Tuesday - More ALI
No HD at all on Wednesday
Looks like an HD game Thursday from 3:00AM to 5:00AM

Here is the exact schedule through the rest of the year - Something is better than nothing... It looks like it gets better.
- MONDAY , DEC 11 2006 Time Program
03:30 am - 04:00 am Outside The Lines (Weekend)
09:30 pm - 10:30 pm Ali Rap presented by Kay Jewelers
10:30 pm - 11:30 pm Ali's Dozen presented by Kay Jewelers
- TUESDAY , DEC 12 2006 Time Program
12:30 am - 01:30 am Ali Rap presented by Kay Jewelers
01:30 am - 02:30 am Ali's Dozen presented by Kay Jewelers
09:00 pm - 11:00 pm NBA Coast To Coast
- WEDNESDAY, DEC 13 2006 Time Program
- THURSDAY , DEC 14 2006 Time Program
03:00 am - 05:00 am NBA Wednesday - Phoenix Suns vs Miami Heat
- FRIDAY , DEC 15 2006 Time Program
08:00 pm - 11:00 pm 2006 NCAA Div. I Football Championship Presented On ESPN2 By Enterprise Rent-A-Car - Appalachian State vs. Massachusetts
- SATURDAY , DEC 16 2006 Time Program
12:00 am - 12:30 am NFL Live
03:00 am - 05:00 am NBA Friday - Philadelphia 76ers vs Dallas Mavericks
12:00 pm - 03:00 pm 2006 NCAA Div II Football Championship Presented On ESPN2 By Enterprise Rent-A-Car
- SUNDAY , DEC 17 2006 Time Program
03:00 am - 05:00 am 2006 NCAA Div. I Football Championship Presented On ESPN2 By Enterprise Rent-A-Car - Appalachian State vs. Massachusetts
- MONDAY , DEC 18 2006 Time Program
03:30 am - 04:00 am Outside The Lines (Weekend)
- TUESDAY , DEC 19 2006 Time Program
08:00 pm - 11:30 pm 2006 San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl - Northern Illinois vs TCU
- WEDNESDAY, DEC 20 2006 Time Program
03:00 am - 05:00 am 2006 San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl - Northern Illinois vs TCU
- THURSDAY , DEC 21 2006 Time Program
03:00 am - 05:00 am NBA Wednesday - Cleveland Cavaliers vs New Jersey Nets
06:30 pm - 07:00 pm College GameNight (Update)
- FRIDAY , DEC 22 2006 Time Program
08:00 pm - 11:30 pm 2006 R&L Carriers New Orleans Bowl - Rice vs Troy
- SATURDAY , DEC 23 2006 Time Program
01:00 am - 03:00 am 2006 R&L Carriers New Orleans Bowl - Rice vs Troy
03:00 am - 05:00 am NBA Friday - Philadelphia 76ers vs Boston Celtics
01:00 pm - 04:30 pm 2006 Papajohns.Com Bowl - South Florida vs East Carolina
04:30 pm - 06:30 pm Holiday Hoops presented by Kay Jewelers: Big 12 Conference Basketball - Bucknell vs Texas Tech
- SUNDAY , DEC 24 2006 Time Program
12:30 am - 01:00 am NBA Fastbreak
03:00 am - 05:00 am 2006 Papajohns.Com Bowl - South Florida vs East Carolina
- MONDAY , DEC 25 2006 Time Program
02:00 am - 04:00 am 2006 New Mexico Bowl - New Mexico vs San Jose State
10:00 pm - 12:00 am The Contender
- TUESDAY , DEC 26 2006 Time Program
09:00 pm - 11:00 pm NBA Coast To Coast
- WEDNESDAY, DEC 27 2006 Time Program
03:00 am - 05:00 am 2006 Motor City Bowl - Middle Tennessee vs Central Michigan
- THURSDAY , DEC 28 2006 Time Program
06:00 pm - 07:00 pm SportsCenter
09:00 pm - 11:00 pm Big 12 Conference Basketball - UNLV vs Texas Tech
- FRIDAY , DEC 29 2006 Time Program
03:00 am - 05:00 am 2006 PetroSun Independence Bowl - Oklahoma State vs Alabama
06:00 pm - 07:00 pm SportsCenter
- SATURDAY , DEC 30 2006 Time Program
12:00 am - 12:30 am NFL Live
03:00 am - 05:00 am 2006 Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl - Clemson vs Kentucky
- SUNDAY , DEC 31 2006 Time Program
12:00 am - 12:30 am NBA Fastbreak
vegggas

ESPN2HD and ESPNU have been put on test
IMO - Still don't know why ESPN needs a second channel for HD yet. The two combined still don't make enough HD for a full 24 hour channel.

vegggas

In the months of Aug and Sept when "fartball" begins rolling, baseball is excluded from some ESPNHD telecasts and they are shunted to ESPN2. Why should the football people get their game in HD, while the baseball fans have to settle for SD? Providing ESPN2HD will hopefully solve that problem. But providing an HD channel for ESPNU (I agree) is a total waste of digital space.

ESPNU is SD.
ESPN2 has some HD content. Most basball games are still aired in SD due to the limitations in the number of production trucks. Many of those games will still be shown in SD on the HD channel, and most of the HD games are shown on INHD (except the blacked-out ones). The solution is to have more HD production units available to sports leagues if they want more coverage. IMO- Another ESPNHD channel only increases the availability of HD content to more viewers not interested in the main channel.

vegggas

ps - I'm not really debating anything - I like having more HD content when it's available. It just seems that they (ESPN) could offer more HD on their main channel instead of diverting it off to another, lesser distributed channel for payola.
v
pps - I just checked and saw that ESPN2HD is on Dish and Direct. I would assume that you two would have been viewing this much more than I would have to see how much HD content has been available. I've just started looking, so I don't know what's been shown before the schedule I posted.
v

Other news:
I'm told that chanel 707 (INHD2) will remain in the lineup as an events channel.
The next 30 - 45 days will have a lot of changes with more ADS (simulcast), adding and deletion of channels and re-organizing of the current digital lineup for more efficiency.

vegggas
They showed tonights FSN West HD broadcast of the Lakers/Spurs game on 707. I don't know if that was part of NBATV or not. But it was all FSN graphics and halftime show, which NBATV doesnt do.
I hope it means the return of San Diego Padres in HD :). Even the Dodgers and Angels too :D

Now that ABC Sports has been swallowed whole by ESPN, the number of available production trucks for HD telecasts should increase dramatically.

Seems that FOX and CBS have enough in the way of production facilities to televise almost every Sunday NFL game in HD. I don't think that ABC/ESPN are any different.

ESPNU is SD.
pps - I just checked and saw that ESPN2HD is on Dish and Direct. I would assume that you two would have been viewing this much more than I would have to see how much HD content has been available. I've just started looking, so I don't know what's been shown before the schedule I posted.

I had the DirecTV HD package when it was just ESPNHD. This was a year ago (I've since dropped it), but at that time about 70% of the stuff on ESPNHD was SD stuff with sidebars. If they finally got that to 100% HD, then it makes sense to move ESPN2 to HD. If not, then I tend to agree that having two partial HD channels makes no sense.

I don't have a number to call, just a friend, and I'm on the list for testing. The current newer release is for enabling some of the newer features, but it's not as stable as the current public release version. Some problems that exist are shows being deleted randomly for no reason. Another issue is resolution format conflicts that can cause reboots. There is another issue where you can't watch a currently recording program delayed and "catch up" to live without having a good chance of either rebooting or totally mucking up the mpeg on both tuners. Also, there is a possibility that the STB will brick and have to be swapped.
If, however, you want beta software to enable the extra features of a 4th FF and less chance of getting kicked out to live, you can't gripe about the failures and loss of recordings. You should be able to call around and ask for the software to enable the firewire ports to connect to your firewire equipped TV.

vegggas

I got upgraded by calling the main customer support number, 383-4000, and getting transferred to video technical support back in September. I haven't had any recordings lost and no more rebooting than before, it is still a rare occasion. It did take a weekend before the person I spoke with was able to figure out how to send the upgrade to my STB. She did not know about it but asked around and once she got it sent to me she said she was going to get it herself because of the new features. I would recommend asking for an upgrade to SARA 1.88. Be specific and maybe they will realize you know what you are talking about. Good luck.

Some good news for DirecTv subscribers:
I just got an e-mail from the general manager at KLAS TV regarding HDTV:

She wrote:
It’s my understanding that DirecTV will begin carrying our signal within the next two weeks. Thank you for watching and for your patience.

Emily Neilson

KLAS

You should be able to call around and ask for the software to enable the firewire ports to connect to your firewire equipped TV.


I called and tried to get the firewire activated on my 3250HD, and the support person told me they would "never" activate these ports for me!! Even mentioning the FCC rule, made the individual more aggressive against me. :mad:

I called and tried to get the firewire activated on my 3250HD, and the support person told me they would "never" activate these ports for me!! Even mentioning the FCC rule, made the individual more aggressive against me. :mad:
Firewire is already enabled on the 3250HD. It has been for a few years. I wrote a thread about that box (and since abandoned it)years ago.
What kind of TV are you connecting it to?
You do know that it's a protected source meant for firewire equipped compatible displays and NOT for PC's- right?

vegggas

I was wondering if you could explain exactly what number you (or vegggas) called and who you spoke to to get the upgrade.

1) Called the normal Cox number and selected the "change service" option.
2) This got me Sales, but told them I need a different department who can help with a CableBox issue.
3) They sent me to Video support (I think)
4) Politely asked them to submit a request to have the "firmware" upgraded on my box. (Kept mentioning the "kick to live" bug as the reason I wanted the upgrade. Having my girlfriend complain daily to me about this bug was enough motivation for me to keep calling Cox until they did this!!)
5) The tech had to fill out an internal form to request this on my behalf.
6) About two days later, they pushed the upgraded to my box. :)

I have to give all the Cox folks I spoke to a big THUMBS UP on this. Of course partly because I had success, but more so for their genuine interest in trying to help me. Even the folks who work the counter at the main office, are awesome to deal with.

Will someone please explain just what all of this, "upgrade" business means.
I'm an ordinary viewer, without any special requirements. All I want are as many HD channels as possible, with both video and audio that are as state-of-the-art as they can be.

1) Called the normal Cox number and selected the "change service" option.
2) This got me Sales, but told them I need a different department who can help with a CableBox issue.
3) They sent me to Video support (I think)
4) Politely asked them to submit a request to have the "firmware" upgraded on my box. (Kept mentioning the "kick to live" bug as the reason I wanted the upgrade. Having my girlfriend complain daily to me about this bug was enough motivation for me to keep calling Cox until they did this!!)
5) The tech had to fill out an internal form to request this on my behalf.
6) About two days later, they pushed the upgraded to my box. :)

I have to give all the Cox folks I spoke to a big THUMBS UP on this. Of course partly because I had success, but more so for their genuine interest in trying to help me. Even the folks who work the counter at the main office, are awesome to deal with.
I did the same procedure Sat. and was walked thtu a few questions and was told I would be push thru today sometime..
can't wait to try firewie outputs to my mitsbishi 6583..
I can already record the local stations to my computer thru the firewire netcommand on my RCA 160 firewire drive and my PC using the Avid software

Veggas already told me what to do and expect from the 3250.. I just waited till now for the 8300 update.. will let all know how this goes..
waiting... waiting... waiting...

I live on the west side of Las Vegas. I would like to have suggestions on the best inside antenna to purchase for OTA HDTV in Las Vegas. I live in the Jones/Sahara
area and I have had pretty good success with a Philips HDTV inside amplified antenna but I cannot seem to get Channel 3 (3.1) HDTV. Also the other HDTV stations are VERY "finicky" (directional) - I need to point the antenna "basically" South East to pick up those stations. When I position the rabbit ears of this combo antenna, they seem to interrupt my HDTV station reception - please HELP!!

Thank-you

Firewire is already enabled on the 3250HD. It has been for a few years. I wrote a thread about that box (and since abandoned it)years ago.
What kind of TV are you connecting it to?
You do know that it's a protected source meant for firewire equipped compatible displays and NOT for PC's- right?

vegggas

Well tried a JVC dVHS (which my neighbor is trying to sell to me). Don't remember the model off hand, but it would not work. Also tried a PC to see if anything is even seen on the firewire ports, but nothing.

The diag screen of the 3250HD shows "unavailable" for the firewire port. Not sure if this is just a "5c DTCP" issue or not.

"THURSDAY , DEC 28 2006 Time Program
09:00 pm - 11:00 pm Big 12 Conference Basketball - UNLV vs Texas Tech "

WOW... and actual Rebels game in HD... there moving up in the world I guess or most likely just because they are playing Boby Knight's team !

As far as ESPNU is concerned.. I actually had to order the sports package from D* to be able to see some of my alma maters football/basketball games here locally. Now that Cox has it I can cancel that and save $12/month. I was also considering temporarily subscribing to their HD package just to get ESPN2. now I don have to shell out the extra bucks for that. I had about given up all hope of Cox not making kissy face with ESPN to carry those channels.. WAY TO GO COX... I wonder what changed between the two entities. I know its a longshot, but mabey we will eventually get ESPN360 availability too down the road.


Word Maestro.... Welcome back! thougth you had gone to that great baseball field in the sky.. Did you get tired of being bashed in here for every strong opinion you expressed?? (btw.. CBS only televises 3 NFL games a week in HD, while FOX televises all of its games in HD)

ESPNU is SD.
ESPN2 has some HD content. Most basball games are still aired in SD due to the limitations in the number of production trucks. Many of those games will still be shown in SD on the HD channel, and most of the HD games are shown on INHD (except the blacked-out ones). The solution is to have more HD production units available to sports leagues if they want more coverage. IMO- Another ESPNHD channel only increases the availability of HD content to more viewers not interested in the main channel.

vegggas

ps - I'm not really debating anything - I like having more HD content when it's available. It just seems that they (ESPN) could offer more HD on their main channel instead of diverting it off to another, lesser distributed channel for payola.
v
pps - I just checked and saw that ESPN2HD is on Dish and Direct. I would assume that you two would have been viewing this much more than I would have to see how much HD content has been available. I've just started looking, so I don't know what's been shown before the schedule I posted.
v

FYI, all college games on ESPN2 were in HD this year.

I believe they always had a Friday night game, and often a Tuesday/Wednesday game, not to mention at least 2 Saturday games, concurrent with ESPN and ABC.

So at a minimum, there were 3 HD games a week, possibly more...

Also, they had a lot of baseball games at the sametime as ESPNHD... So there is plenty of content.

Once the college basketball season heats up (think January), you'll see the need for 2 if you haven't already (it seems that's the case) :).

I had the DirecTV HD package when it was just ESPNHD. This was a year ago (I've since dropped it), but at that time about 70% of the stuff on ESPNHD was SD stuff with sidebars. If they finally got that to 100% HD, then it makes sense to move ESPN2 to HD. If not, then I tend to agree that having two partial HD channels makes no sense.

Again, it's all about concurrent.

Why does NFL network need to be HD?

They generate 24 hours of HD content (that anyone would really care about) a YEAR!!!

I kind of like how Cox-Fairfax has been handling it... creating an ad-hoc channel for those games. I mean, sure, seeing the highlights and all is nice in HD, but at the end of the day, it's the live content that is ultimately what I want to see... and at this time, it's quite limited.

Again, it's all about concurrent.

Why does NFL network need to be HD?

They generate 24 hours of HD content (that anyone would really care about) a YEAR!!!

I kind of like how Cox-Fairfax has been handling it... creating an ad-hoc channel for those games. I mean, sure, seeing the highlights and all is nice in HD, but at the end of the day, it's the live content that is ultimately what I want to see... and at this time, it's quite limited.

Why does there need to be an NFL Network at all?

I personally think that they should leave TV to the TV folks and run the league. The same is true with The mountain channel that shows all the Mountain West stuff. If this type stuff keeps up your have over 200 sports channels that show garbage 95% of the time.

Word Maestro.... Welcome back! thougth you had gone to that great baseball field in the sky.. Did you get tired of being bashed in here for every strong opinion you expressed?? (btw.. CBS only televises 3 NFL games a week in HD, while FOX televises all of its games in HD)

I have been "bashed" for my opinions by far more intelligent and much more important people than those that frequent this forum. It doesn't bother me at all. And my absence was due to the purchase of a new computer. I had forgotten my password and only recently relocated it. Football still sucks, and will suck FOREVER. Only a little more than 3 months before baseball resumes. Then I won't have to read all of this football BS either here or in the news.

Is there a thread here about Cox internet service?

Will someone please explain just what all of this, "upgrade" business means.
I'm an ordinary viewer, without any special requirements. All I want are as many HD channels as possible, with both video and audio that are as state-of-the-art as they can be.

The most HD, well thats Dish Network
The"best" video, that would be maybe Cox, a big maybe.

Directv, forget it!

Is there a thread here about Cox internet service?

This is AVS, try : http://www.dslreports.com/forum/coxhsi

Firewire is already enabled on the 3250HD. It has been for a few years. I wrote a thread about that box (and since abandoned it)years ago.
What kind of TV are you connecting it to?
You do know that it's a protected source meant for firewire equipped compatible displays and NOT for PC's- right?

vegggas

The firewire ports do work on the 3250. I used to connect it to the PC and schedule recordings at one time.

Now I just use a Dvico Fusion5 PCI card.

(btw.. CBS only televises 3 NFL games a week in HD, while FOX televises all of its games in HD)

Not true. While CBS does only do 3 games in HD a week, FOX does ONLY 6, not all. If they have more than 6 games scheduled in any particular week, those "extra" games are broadcast in glorious 480p Fox Widescreen.

Some good news for DirecTv subscribers:
I just got an e-mail from the general manager at KLAS TV regarding HDTV:

She wrote:
It’s my understanding that DirecTV will begin carrying our signal within the next two weeks. Thank you for watching and for your patience.

Emily Neilson

KLAS


Thanks for the info.

ESPN2HD now up on 705 on Cox. Now at 17 full time scheduled HD channels and one part time (PPV) HD channel.
ESPNHD moved from 705 to 704.
ESPNu[sd] on 320.
Some other sd channels were moved and added, but not sure exactly which ones (no more HD channels).
Most of the analog tier is now simulcast as digital signals on digital STB's - At least on my neighborhood node. There are only a handful of analog only channels still unconverted. Looks like the transition is on schedule for a year end completion - I assume an announcement will come after the new year once all the rest of the work is completed.


vegggas

Other news:
I'm told that chanel 707 (INHD2) will remain in the lineup as an events channel.
The next 30 - 45 days will have a lot of changes with more ADS (simulcast), adding and deletion of channels and re-organizing of the current digital lineup for more efficiency.

vegggas

Can you confirm that Cox now has the rights to show the FSN West/PrimeTicket HD events?

Read in the LVRJ today that Channel 13 is breaking ground today on a new facility which , when completed by DEC '07, will allow it to broadcast with the latest HD equipment.

Most of the analog tier is now simulcast as digital signals on digital STB's - At least on my neighborhood node. There are only a handful of analog only channels still unconverted. Looks like the transition is on schedule for a year end completion
vegggas

Of what significance is that to the viewer?
Right now, I have my 8300 set to deliver the SD channels in 480p. Does the analog switch to digital mean that I should reset it to deliver the SD channels in 1080i?
And if there is no difference in signal strength, picture or audio quality, why did Cox make that change?

Of what significance is that to the viewer?
Right now, I have my 8300 set to deliver the SD channels in 480p. Does the analog switch to digital mean that I should reset it to deliver the SD channels in 1080i?
And if there is no difference in signal strength, picture or audio quality, why did Cox make that change?
Actually, very good questions.
The change is HOW the channels are delivered. In this case, as a digital carrier instead of an analog carrier.
People have long complained about analog signals looking snowy, washed out, etc, etc. This is usually due to the losses associated with two main factors.
1) Amplifier cascading where the signal is amped up, pushed down a line, then amped up again. The higher the frequency, the more it is attenuated along a given line. The longer the line and the more connections it has the greater the chance of noise being inserted into the line. The big problem here is that amps amplify the noise on the line as much as the signal, thus the signal-to-noise ratio becomes a big issue. This has been alleviated by the use of fiber nodes to the neighborhoods that reduce the maximum length of any analog chain. Still the last 100ft to the home (street to demarc) and INSIDE THE HOME can attenuate the analog signal and still cause the second problem - INGRESS.
2) INGRESS is the presence of outside signals interfering in a closed system, especially on the same frequencies. If all the cable lines were secure with no ingress, the anlog signals will be VERY clear. A bad fitting, a worn out connector, a nail through a cable, or a bad splitter can act as an antenna allowing outside frequencies onto the RF network. This can be seen as ghosting, banding and vertical shifting of the image as the OTA signal at the same frequnecy is hitting the tuner at a few milliseconds differnt than the signal coming down the cable line. At times, the 250Megawatt OTA transmitters will be so strong as to completely wipe out the cable signals on the same frequencies. Outside frequencies can also interfere with non-matching frequencies too, where OTA signals can completely wipe out certain cable frequencies and harmonics of those frequencies too.
How it applies to you :
1) Getting the signal digitally, makes it more immune to outside interference. People in Henderson virtually had their NBC channel wiped out a few years ago due to ingress from the transmitter. Cox began simulcasting NBC Digitally years ago to combat that problem. Those with Digital STB's just tune to channel 3, and they see the digital channel instead of the analog channel. Sending all the chanels in a digital format prevents a lot of the snow and ingress issues mentioned earlier so that the end user can see a signal closer to what the head end sends out.
2) DVR recording space is increased. The DVR records digital signals. For analog signals, it does an A-D conversion in the STB. It's not nearly as efficient as a dedicated encoder and with multiple A-D-A-D conversions (this is what happens when you watch analog channels over HDMI), the PQ will suffer. Having better, more efficient encoders means that those old analog stations you used to record will be stored and viewed at a better quality and with less space than before.
3) Efficiency of transmission: Carrying an analog signal puts a heavy load on the system. The more channels on the network, the more it loads the system down and effectively wastes bandwidth. The ongoing issue is that due to franchise agreements, cable companies are forced to carry analog channels so that customers can use their old TV's to tune non premium content. With a migration to digital, the signals can be fed over the network as a digital signal, then converted back to analog (for thoe that demand analog) at the node before it hits the customers homes. This takes a load off the main network so that they can add services and improve the quality of existing services. Eventually the entire network will be digital with any analog conversion done at the final node (or eventually at the customers home). If a customer is using digital signals (STB), then they will get the unconverted direct feeds.

Opinion: A digital simulcast is the first step in an all digital migration. Once a digital migration is complete, the newly freed resources can be used much more efficiently. Once a cable company get the permission to convert an analog signal to digital, then cable companies can lobby to get franchises (I think there are about 18 township franchises in the LV area) to agree to drop an analog signal (has to be across the board) from the lineup and move it to a digital format. It took the gameshow network about two years to get moved to digital because of franchise disagreements.
I see that some of the last stations still on analog only are the Sinclair owned stations... Interesting.

What was your question again? I started to ramble...

vegggas

A couple comments about what Vegggas said.

1. He told the downside of the analog signal but not the digital one. If they compress the digital signal too much it will look worse then the analog. The colors maybe better but you will get pixelation. Of course the bigger TV you have the more you will notice these things.

2. The other thing I take exception to is that the cable company is forced to carry the analog. They weren't forced. They agreed to it back when those contracts were written. Now I'm sure that wasn't a problem when the contracts were written. I assume that was a long time ago, but if they can show the everyone they have contracts with that there is no downside I'm sure it will just take time to get those contracts amended.

I do think an all digital cable system is better. The digital signals at the same quality are significantly smaller then the analog counterparts. I think it's like 2 or 3 HD channels per 1 analog channel and 6 or 7 SD digital channels to 1 analog. The new digital tuners are being put in new TVs so the people who don't want a STB can still do that. The only hard part is going to be the people who don't want a STB or a new TV. If they can come up with something that is small enough to just sit behind the TV and convert certain digital channels to analog cheaply enough for Cox to just give them to the people to drag them along I think they can get there. As with most advancements the red tape is pretty thick though.

Right now, I have my 8300HD STB, set to deliver the SD channels in 480p. Does the analog switch to digital mean that I should reset it to deliver the SD channels in 1080i?



Veggas,
Thank you for your comprehensive reply, but the main question in my message has not been answered. I have repeated it above.

Veggas,
Thank you for your comprehensive reply, but the main question in my message has not been answered. I have repeated it above.

I doubt you need to reset it, but I think you have something confused. All those channels aren't going to be 1080i. They are going to be 480i. The only difference is the way it is getting to you. It's kind of like the difference between a vinyl and a CD.

A note on ESPN2 HD...... The non HD programs are much more clear to my eyes on the HD channel than they are on the regular channel 31, so watching SD on the HD channel is much more pleasing. I dont care now if they only have limited HD programming.

I doubt you need to reset it, but I think you have something confused. All those channels aren't going to be 1080i. They are going to be 480i. The only difference is the way it is getting to you. It's kind of like the difference between a vinyl and a CD.

Yes, digital does not mean HD/1080i. It's simply a different method of receiving the broadcast.

A couple comments about what Vegggas said.

1. He told the downside of the analog signal but not the digital one. If they compress the digital signal too much it will look worse then the analog. The colors maybe better but you will get pixelation. Of course the bigger TV you have the more you will notice these things.

2. The other thing I take exception to is that the cable company is forced to carry the analog. They weren't forced. They agreed to it back when those contracts were written. Now I'm sure that wasn't a problem when the contracts were written. I assume that was a long time ago, but if they can show the everyone they have contracts with that there is no downside I'm sure it will just take time to get those contracts amended.

I do think an all digital cable system is better. The digital signals at the same quality are significantly smaller then the analog counterparts. I think it's like 2 or 3 HD channels per 1 analog channel and 6 or 7 SD digital channels to 1 analog. The new digital tuners are being put in new TVs so the people who don't want a STB can still do that. The only hard part is going to be the people who don't want a STB or a new TV. If they can come up with something that is small enough to just sit behind the TV and convert certain digital channels to analog cheaply enough for Cox to just give them to the people to drag them along I think they can get there. As with most advancements the red tape is pretty thick though.
For the record I prefer a clean SD broadcast Analog signal over an SD Digital signal. A digital signal is usually just a converted copy of the original analog signal, which can never be better than the original. The benefit is just in the transmission losses that can be overcome.
1) So far compression doesn't seem to be an issue. Watching The Lost Room on SciFi right now and it's the cleanest it's ever been. SciFi has always has a bit of noise on the analog signal, and now it's clean and pristine. Benefit goes to digital here. The main local channels have been digital for over a year as a test and they have worked out many of the bugs with latest generation encoders.
2) Carriage is a two way street. A good example is ESPN. They put it into their contract they must be on a standard tier available to expanded basic subscribers without the need for any additional equipment. This means that unless ALL customers have cable boxes or digital tuners, it must remain analog throughout the length of the contract. Hence a cable company can't remove it from the analog feed, but can (if given permission to alter the signal) simulcast it as a digital channel for those customers who use a digital STB. The other side is local franchise agreements that dictate programming changes. If the retirement community wants to keep the shopping networks (yes, they do lobby to keep them on the air) on analog, they must remain on analog until their representative franchise and all others agree to allow it to be removed. Cox had to wire up, supply digital cable and digital converters to several retirement communities to eventually move the Game Show Network (and also build a few parks and rec areas) to digital.

I can't write this and watch "The Lost Room" at the same time!!!

vegggas

For the record I prefer a clean SD broadcast Analog signal over an SD Digital signal. A digital signal is usually just a converted copy of the original analog signal, which can never be better than the original. The benefit is just in the transmission losses that can be overcome.
1) So far compression doesn't seem to be an issue. Watching The Lost Room on SciFi right now and it's the cleanest it's ever been. SciFi has always has a bit of noise on the analog signal, and now it's clean and pristine. Benefit goes to digital here. The main local channels have been digital for over a year as a test and they have worked out many of the bugs with latest generation encoders.
2) Carriage is a two way street. A good example is ESPN. They put it into their contract they must be on a standard tier available to expanded basic subscribers without the need for any additional equipment. This means that unless ALL customers have cable boxes or digital tuners, it must remain analog throughout the length of the contract. Hence a cable company can't remove it from the analog feed, but can (if given permission to alter the signal) simulcast it as a digital channel for those customers who use a digital STB. The other side is local franchise agreements that dictate programming changes. If the retirement community wants to keep the shopping networks (yes, they do lobby to keep them on the air) on analog, they must remain on analog until their representative franchise and all others agree to allow it to be removed. Cox had to wire up, supply digital cable and digital converters to several retirement communities to eventually move the Game Show Network (and also build a few parks and rec areas) to digital.

I can't write this and watch "The Lost Room" at the same time!!!

vegggas

Depends on the source. I'd say the Star Trek OS remasters on OTA digital 21 and 33 will always look better then ota analog or cable analog versions.

I was over at my parents house tonight and they have HDTV's using cablecards but they don't see ESPN2. Do they need to reset the card or will it eventually pick it up.

Star Trek - TOS is a digitally remasterd and restored show and is being delivered digitally in it's new native format - Of course it's better than if they convert that to analog (or use the overused syndicated rerun tapes)and transmit it via analog means. What I meant was that an original broadcast analog source will be superior if it's kept in the analog medium instead of sampled into the digital domain. This is especially true at the origination source. I happen to live near a node (couple hundred feet), and have a tight home network so my analog signals are very good, although the farther down you go, the more chance of degradation.

Cable cards - I don't know? I heard (on AVS or TCF) that in other markets with SA equipment, ESPN2 couldn't be authorized on SA cable cards. I would suggest calling in and asking or complaining about it. Maybe it will work if they can "hit" it remotely?

vegggas

Update on DVR space increase with digital simulcast on Cox.
I recorded two, 2-hour episodes of SciFi's The Lost Room mini-seres tonight on a standard DVR.
Previously, 4 hours of SciFi would take between 15-20% of drive space. Now with the digital conversion, the space used was only about 5%.

vegggas

Star Trek - TOS is a digitally remasterd and restored show and is being delivered digitally in it's new native format - Of course it's better than if they convert that to analog (or use the overused syndicated rerun tapes)and transmit it via analog means. What I meant was that an original broadcast analog source will be superior if it's kept in the analog medium instead of sampled into the digital domain. This is especially true at the origination source. I happen to live near a node (couple hundred feet), and have a tight home network so my analog signals are very good, although the farther down you go, the more chance of degradation.

Cable cards - I don't know? I heard (on AVS or TCF) that in other markets with SA equipment, ESPN2 couldn't be authorized on SA cable cards. I would suggest calling in and asking or complaining about it. Maybe it will work if they can "hit" it remotely?

vegggas

So the Cox digital SIMs are just the analog converted to digital, not the digital signals converted to Qam and sent through the system? Only the HD are straight Qammed digital?

One would get a better picture from those channels doing digital if they were to get an ATSC tuner like the one in my TV and the one in the VIP622 HD DVR from Dish. The LILs look crappy like Cox because of the analog to digital and over compression.

Cox would give you the worst picture in this scenario.

^^ You're point doesn't make any sense. You're comparing apples to oranges. Of course, the SD digitals of local channels from Cox will look worse than the OTA HD digitals. The legitimate comparison would be to Dish SD LiL (Cox would be better) or with Cox HD to OTA HD (bit-for-bit identical the last time vegggas checked).

^^ You're point doesn't make any sense. You're comparing apples to oranges. Of course, the SD digitals of local channels from Cox will look worse than the OTA HD digitals. The legitimate comparison would be to Dish SD LiL (Cox would be better) or with Cox HD to OTA HD (bit-for-bit identical the last time vegggas checked).

I do make sense. You cannot compute. If I'm watching SD channel 3 on Cox in digital format, it will look worse than watching SD channel 3 OTA.

OR Star Trek OS in SD channel 33 from Cox will never look as good as on SD channel 33 OTA.

I'm not talking HD!!!!!

To make it simple, pretend you have a non HD STB.

This is because Cox is taking 33, 3 et.al. from an ariel in analog mode and sending that digital to subs. It is not taking the digital signals and qamming them to the subs. Unless I'm mistaken, this is how Cox is sending the digitals.

Vegggass, can you verify this?

Foghorn is partially correct, and of course, we are not talking HD, just SD simulcast. Cox and other cable co's are using digital versions of signals off satelliites where they can get them in digital format and are allowed to use them. Examples would be some of the Expanded Basic tier with SciFi, TNT, Discovery, etc. Some (many) of the channels off sat are still analog and must be encoded to digital for simulcast. All of the local stations that are on the basic tier must be derived from the MAIN viewing source (currently analog until transmissions cease) according to standard retransmit agreements. Those signals are encoded to digital, usually from either a dedicated fiber feed or other means.

Now for Foghorn's specific comments.
Channel 3 analog signal will vary from location to location (either cable or OTA) based on ingress, noise, multipath ghosting and other losses. A high quality digital conversion or the ATSC Digital OTA version of that original signal will be sent without the associated analog transmission problems, thus resulting in a better image for the end user. This is similar to the MP3 analogy. You can make an MP3 from an old tape or vinyl, but the converted version will never be "better" than the original source, but the MP3 will hold up to mulitiple copies, repeated play and age without the losses associated with the worn out tape or vinyl analog versions.
For channel 33, Cox has to transmit the analog sourced version with all of it's losses because it is not allowed to transmit either the ATSC digital or a digitally converted version of the analog signal without permission of the broadcaster.
Any local broadcaster with agreements for ATSC digitals feeds are located between Cox channels 112 -128 for ATSC SD (subchannels) and ATSC HD is from channels 730 - 735.

vegggas

Interesting tidbit.
All the local stations ATSC OTA SD signals originating locally or thru syndication sources, with the ONLY exception of LIVE KLAS NEWS feeds are analog sources with a digital encoder. The process they use to convert the analog to digital and multiplex the subchannels onto the digital transmitters is virtually exactly the same thing that Cable co's are doing. In those situations, where the TV station equipment is getting older, a cable co could take the original analog signal and encode it to digital at better quality than the station can.

vegggas

My GF has an HD tv with a regular digital SA 2100 box, she does not want to get a HD box, I want to buy one for her for XMAS, cox does not sale them, can i buy a box on ebay and will it work or will it be blocked, and what model do i need? I think its the S.A. HD 3250, anyway i know this is a lame question, but any help would be most appreciated.

With all the digital conversions and CableCard standards being developed, I'm really starting to wonder what the future holds.

Today it's nice that I can get plenty of channels in the clear (2-99) as long as I subscribe to Extended cable. I can also hook up as many TV's in my house that I want. But what about in 2009 when all analog ceases?

I hope I'm wrong but I'm guessing, sometime after 2009, to get any channels over Cable will require a CableCard compatible device and all signals (over the cable coax) will be encrypted. This could potentially mean that a call to the Cable Co will be required for each TV you want to use. And even worse, since CableCards are programmed to a single device and can not be "freely" moved to another device, that even buying a new TV (with built-in CableCard support) will require a call to the Cable Co before it will work. :(

Anyone have thoughts on this? Are ss this a completely cynical view that will never occur?

My GF has an HD tv with a regular digital SA 2100 box, she does not want to get a HD box, I want to buy one for her for XMAS, cox does not sale them, can i buy a box on ebay and will it work or will it be blocked, and what model do i need? I think its the S.A. HD 3250, anyway i know this is a lame question, but any help would be most appreciated.

No, you'll need to get the box directly from Cox and have them activate it - especially if you want the HD feeds through the box (which is why I presume you're looking to buy one off Ebay).

Is her TV "HD Ready" or truly HD? If it has its own HD Tuner, you can get HD directly from the cable, and also over the air. Post her TV's model number.

With all the digital conversions and CableCard standards being developed, I'm really starting to wonder what the future holds.

Today it's nice that I can get plenty of channels in the clear (2-99) as long as I subscribe to Extended cable. I can also hook up as many TV's in my house that I want. But what about in 2009 when all analog ceases?

I hope I'm wrong but I'm guessing, sometime after 2009, to get any channels over Cable will require a CableCard compatible device and all signals (over the cable coax) will be encrypted. This could potentially mean that a call to the Cable Co will be required for each TV you want to use. And even worse, since CableCards are programmed to a single device and can not be "freely" moved to another device, that even buying a new TV (with built-in CableCard support) will require a call to the Cable Co before it will work. :(

Anyone have thoughts on this? Are ss this a completely cynical view that will never occur?

That is the plan. The way it works with Directv is you buy the receiver and you go on the website and add the smartcard to the account. Then it beams the information from the sat to the receiver and it works. Eventually it will be that simple with the cable companies. When this happens you will either need some sort of box to get cable to work or OTA for that matter to work with a non digital TV. just think of it as an evolutionary step like going from an Apple II to a Windows PC.

I do make sense. You cannot compute. If I'm watching SD channel 3 on Cox in digital format, it will look worse than watching SD channel 3 OTA.

OR Star Trek OS in SD channel 33 from Cox will never look as good as on SD channel 33 OTA.

I'm not talking HD!!!!!

To make it simple, pretend you have a non HD STB.

This is because Cox is taking 33, 3 et.al. from an ariel in analog mode and sending that digital to subs. It is not taking the digital signals and qamming them to the subs. Unless I'm mistaken, this is how Cox is sending the digitals.

Vegggass, can you verify this?
Here in Phoenix, most of the stations feed their SD to Cox, Qwest, and D* over a shared fiber ring, so it is possible for the digital simulcasts to have better quality than the analog OTA broadcasts. I would imagine that the same is true for Las Vegas since it makes financial sense to have that fiber loop so the stations can continue to be available to a large number of subscribers even if the transmitter is down for maintenance or hardware problems.

Direct Tv just told me the ATC Tuners is now turned on in the new HD DVR (20-250) although there is a 2-3 week wait to get one.

they also said NBC, ABC and FOX are available in HD now. Just waiting on CBS

anyone have comments about this, and if its worth paying $99.99 to upgrade from my TIVO HR-10250 to get the new MPEG4 HD DVR?

it would be nice to not get choppy HD locals, how is the quality of the locals in HD compared to OTA?

Main shows i watch are PrimeTIme on CBS and FOX, like CSI, House, American idol, Prison Break etc.....

Turd, Turd?

D* is feeding you a line of crap. I have the new DVR (HR20), and OTA is still not activated in Vegas. It is a download via sat. Most markets across the country got the download last week, but as of this morning not Vegas. Also that DVR has been plauged with problems such as skipped recordings, constant lock-ups, and reboots. Many of the forums I have read from the markets where OTA has been activated have reported that the subchannels, (ie: 3-2 21-3 etc) are not loading when you scan for digital channels. Also read channels 2 and 3 won't tune in at all in any markets that uses them, such as us. Also if you decide to go for it, don't pay $99. I got if for free by threatening to cancel service! I got two of them.

Direct Tv just told me the ATC Tuners is now turned on in the new HD DVR (20-250) although there is a 2-3 week wait to get one.

they also said NBC, ABC and FOX are available in HD now. Just waiting on CBS

anyone have comments about this, and if its worth paying $99.99 to upgrade from my TIVO HR-10250 to get the new MPEG4 HD DVR?

it would be nice to not get choppy HD locals, how is the quality of the locals in HD compared to OTA?

Main shows i watch are PrimeTIme on CBS and FOX, like CSI, House, American idol, Prison Break etc.....

While OTA is not _yet_ officially enabled in the LV area, it soon will be. However, your OP refers to the three active stations available in HD off the SAT. These three are currently working and the station manager for KLAS replied to an e-mail I sent her and said D* will be carrying KLAS HD within the next two weeks.(See an earlier post I made on Monday.)
Last night, D* allowed HR20 owners to force the download of the newest S/W version which enables OTA as well as a limited amount of networking. I was out of town--I live in Pahrump--and missed the two hour window, but all indications are that the latest software will go national soon. Hopefully by the end of the year.

The picture quality of HD network broadcasts from the satellite is very good.

As to the issues regarding stability: the box does have some problems. You can explore these in more detail at http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112 which is a site dedicated to all things regarding the hr20.

Right now, I have no other option for network HD broadcasts since I was denied HD DNS when I applied after moving here five months ago, but hopefully I will at least have the major nets in HD within a couple weeks.

i have submitted request for waivers a few times... seems the law always changes, but i think u can request them again every 45 days since u were last denied.. maybe even more often...

While OTA is not _yet_ officially enabled in the LV area, it soon will be. However, your OP refers to the three active stations available in HD off the SAT. These three are currently working and the station manager for KLAS replied to an e-mail I sent her and said D* will be carrying KLAS HD within the next two weeks.(See an earlier post I made on Monday.)

She was apparently speaking the truth as I'm currently watching KLAS Eyewitness news at 6 in HD on my HR20.

Unfotunately, I too missed the 2 hour window as I was at work. I would like to compare HD OTA vs. the Sat. feed. Soon enough I guess.

Does DirectV have any plans to carry PBSHD?
I find their programming to be informative and entertaining. AND they do present an occasional "cultural" program, such as an orchestral concert, ballet or operatic performance. No other network does that.
And for those with a "cultural bent", LIVE performances of the Metropolitan Opera (ON BIG MOVIE THEATER SIZED SCREENS IN HD)
will take place for six consecutive Saturday matinees. The operas will be Magic Flute, Barber of Seville, Eugen Onegin, Il Trittico. I Puritani, and a contemporary work called the Last Emperor . Of course Vegas, being Vegas, only ONE theater will carry the broadcasts- Village Square on Fort Apache and Sahara. Performances start at 10:30AM local time, admission is $18.00 per person. First performance is "Magic Flute" on Dec 30. Tickets are available either on line or at the box office. These are NOT pre-recorded performances. They are all LIVE, directly from the stage of the Metropolitan Opera House in NYC.

I hope I'm wrong but I'm guessing, sometime after 2009, to get any channels over Cable will require a CableCard compatible device and all signals (over the cable coax) will be encrypted. This could potentially mean that a call to the Cable Co will be required for each TV you want to use. And even worse, since CableCards are programmed to a single device and can not be "freely" moved to another device, that even buying a new TV (with built-in CableCard support) will require a call to the Cable Co before it will work. :(

You are wrong.

The 2009 deadline is for analong over the air signals. Analog transmission over coax will not cease for a while to come. The FCC will need to require cablecards in all TVs of all sizes for many years before Cox can even think about yanking analog channels. We may see the pruning of analog channels, but no outright elimination.

Does DirectV have any plans to carry PBSHD?
I find their programming to be informative and entertaining. AND they do present an occasional "cultural" program, such as an orchestral concert, ballet or operatic performance. No other network does that.
And for those with a "cultural bent", LIVE performances of the Metropolitan Opera (ON BIG MOVIE THEATER SIZED SCREENS IN HD)
will take place for six consecutive Saturday matinees. The operas will be Magic Flute, Barber of Seville, Eugen Onegin, Il Trittico. I Puritani, and a contemporary work called the Last Emperor . Of course Vegas, being Vegas, only ONE theater will carry the broadcasts- Village Square on Fort Apache and Sahara. Performances start at 10:30AM local time, admission is $18.00 per person. First performance is "Magic Flute" on Dec 30. Tickets are available either on line or at the box office. These are NOT pre-recorded performances. They are all LIVE, directly from the stage of the Metropolitan Opera House in NYC.

IIRC, D* is planning on providing the four major HD networks (NBC, ABC, CBS and FOX) to all dma's of the country first, then they will start adding additional channels such as PBS, CW and others. I believe this will come about as two more satellites are, hopefully, launched in 2007. At that time, they will start expanding the number of local stations broadcast.

I finally found that KLAS was up at 11pm and I think they have every right to brag about the quality of their local HD news broadcast--it was stunning.

As I don't get any OTA HD here in Pahrump, I can only go by what I remember from OTA while living in Henderson. I would say that mpeg4 compression is every bit as good as OTA mpeg2.
Can anyone with both OTA and D* HD do a side-by-side comparison and confirm the accuracy of my memory?

Thanks,
Rick

I was lucky enough to download the 108 software on Wednesday night for my D* HR-20 & channel 8 OTA (KLAS) worked flawlessly. I was stoked that I now had the 4 major networks in HD here in LV.

Of course, I got home last night and to my surprise KLAS was coming in in HD through my D* dish. The reception is great and by no means am I complaining but there is a difference in OTA & the D* reception. I've seen it posted elsewhere and have noticed that both KVBC and now KLAS's reception through D* has a "film-like" look to it as opposed to OTA. I believe someone mentioned it could be due to the signal being compressed on D*. It is really noticeable on NBC'c Sunday Night Football where there is plenty of action on screen.

Regardless, I am happy and Las Vegas is now one of the very few cities to have all 4 major networks in HD on D*.

There is no question that the two major signal providers for the Las Vegas area are DirectV and Cox Cable. With Dish coming in a distant third. OTA capability may exist, but because of geographic problems (hills, valleys, mtns, high rises, etc) it is rarely utilized.

Therefore, my main question is not so much how does DirectVs HD signal compares with OTA, but how it compares to Cox Cable.
In your opinion;
1.Is the D* HD signal of equal quality and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
2. Is the D* HD signal of better quality and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
3. Is the D* HD signal of poorer quailty and dependability than that of Cox Cable?

Since I only have had HD service through D*, I cannot make an accurate assessment on the PQ between the two, but reliability-wise, no issues with my D* HR20 in regards to audio or video sync, audio or video dropouts, etc.

My question to you is, do you notice on any of the Cox Local HD Channels appearing with the "film-like" texture?

My question to you is, do you notice on any of the Cox Local HD Channels appearing with the "film-like" texture?

No I don't. They all look natural
If they had that "film-like texture" that you speak of, I would be VERY dissatisfied. When I watch a "live" event, I want it to look LIVE , not pre-recorded in any way.

I can live with it during regular shows, with the exception of sporting events. I just switch to the OTA channel. I hope once D* fires off a few more satellites and they get more bandwidth, they won't need to compress the picture (if that is the reason for the "film-like" look).

There is no question that the two major signal providers for the Las Vegas area are DirectV and Cox Cable. With Dish coming in a distant third. OTA capability may exist, but because of geographic problems (hills, valleys, mtns, high rises, etc) it is rarely utilized.

Therefore, my main question is not so much how does DirectVs HD signal compares with OTA, but how it compares to Cox Cable.
In your opinion;
1.Is the D* HD signal of equal quality and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
2. Is the D* HD signal of better quality and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
3. Is the D* HD signal of poorer quailty and dependability than that of Cox Cable?


I have both Cox Cable and D*, but I dont subscribe to D* HD package, just Sunday Ticket. Comparing simulcast HD football games I would have to give a slight edge to D* as far as HD quality is concerned but I don't know if that would apply to the other HD channels such as TNT , ESPN, etc.. AFAIK, the only HD channels that D* carries that cox doesnt are the two HDNET channels. Conversely, I dont think D* carries INHD or the MHD channels that Cox has.

btw, I noticed on QAM HD that the TNT channel is now unencrypted at least for the last few days.. I dont know if this is a permanent thing or not ..Channel 112-1

I want to modify slightly what I said in my previous post. You asked if any Cox Cable HD transmissions had a "film-like quality". My initial answer was no. But since the local prime time features on CBS, NBC, ABC and Fox ARE originally shot on film, of course the HD telecasts on Cox have a "film-like quality". But that is a TRUE representation of the source material. On the other hand the local news on KLAS in HD, as presented on Cox Cable has a "LIVE, LIFE-LIKE" quality, which is distinctly superior in appearance to ANY of the pre-filmed shows on ANY of the networks, And I include INHD, HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc, when I say that. Live sports events on Fox, ABC, ESPN, NBC, CBS and any other network that may carry them, have NO film-like quality, and appear as LIVE as LIVE can be.

Now if the same situation applies to D* HD transmissions, then I submit there is no difference between it and Cox Cable.

Am I correct?

I knew exactly what you were saying.

The "filmed" source material on Fox & ABC look fine (House or Lost). But that same type of material on NBC & now CBS on D*(Friday Night Lights or CSI) have another look to them.

Even "live" shows like Letterman last night or Sunday Night Football on NBC, for example, have that same "film-like" effect.

This morning as I was watching Channel 8 Eyewitness News, I switched to OTA just to get away from that appearance and get the actual "live" look which I agree with you is superior and blows away any HD content I have seen on D*.

I have D*, and have to admit Cox local HD feeds blow away the Local HD that D* provides. I notice this dry, dull, dark, "film look" is on the 1080i channels 3 and 8. The 720p channels 5 and 13 look normal.

I have D*, and have to admit Cox local HD feeds blow away the Local HD that D* provides. I notice this dry, dull, dark, "film look" is on the 1080i channels 3 and 8. The 720p channels 5 and 13 look normal.

Unless D* has offered different settings on its HD receivers than it previously did, the receiver should be upoconverting all HD signals to 1080i, even if they are being transmitted in 720p.
If that is true, a different explanation has to be found for that "filmed" look on 3 and 8.

My opinion on dependability is that all providers D*, E* and C* (Cox ;) ) offer roughly the same dependability and uptimes. They are all pretty much available all the time, depending of course on local uptime of the actual stations and their feeds. All of the providers are at the mercy of the local broadcaster's quality and control. If a local station does not "flip the switch to HD" than it will not be shown in HD across all the providers. If a local station is rate shaping and reducing the bit rate of the main HD feed for sub-channels or other reasons, than that same signal will be show across all the providers regardless of what processing and equipment is used by each provider.
With that said, it is what each provider does after they get the signals that may or may not alter the final version that you see. C* and D* gets most of the feeds via a fiber link (or via antenna), which is the SAME signal that goes to the transmitters, so at that point the signals are identical to OTA.
C* takes the transport stream and puts it onto a 256QAM carrier. A 256QAM carrier can transmit 38.4 Mbps or 2 x 19.2 streams with no alterations. This is how HD signals are fed to C* customers. C* vs OTA will be equal in delivery quality, with any differences being in the receiving equipment.
D* takes the mpeg2 HD tranport stream and re-encodes as an Mpeg4 transport stream (no tangent on resolution changes (1920x1080i vs 1280x1080i) that may or may not occur on mpeg4). There is no PQ gained in this process, and if anything, there is a loss associated with the re-encoding of the stream. The BENEFIT is that mpeg4 can offer the same PQ at a lower bit rate than mpeg2, so that re-transmission is not constrained to be kept at a 19.2Mbps level.
E* offers HD signal via an OTA antenna. The latest generation tuners are very good and can offer a better percieved PQ over older generation tuners in D* equipment and in C* STB's with the same original quality signal. They also employ, what I seem to percieve (my opinion) to be a "smoothing of the image, then hardening of the contrast". This smooths out macroblocking, mosquito noise and other related PQ issues and then they use a higher than normal contrasted output to give the image some "pop". Quality factors as mentioned earlier in this thread are dependent on terrain. Some can't get an OTA signal in some areas and must get them from alternative sources. (Note - in my recent long absense, I was using an E* VIP622 DVR and Samsung 61" 1080p display)

A different tangent is the argument between resolution and bitrate. There are entire threads dedicated to that topic, but here is the gist.
With a given HD signal (lets say 1920x1080i) being transmitted at a given bitrate (say less than original rates, maybe 10Mbps), a 1920x1080i signal will breakup more than a 1280x1080i (reduced resolution) at the same given bitrate, thus giving the appearance of better PQ due to less blocking, when the actual resolution is much lower than the original.

1920x1080i @ 19.2Mbps = As clean as originally broadcast OTA, but will have PQ issues, such as macroblocking related to original source (see NBC).
1920x1080i @ less than 19.2Mbps (lets say 10Mbs) = Possible introduction of more macroblocking due to reduced overhead, but still highest resolution possible.
1280x1080i (D* and E* Mpeg2) @ less than 19.2Mbps = Original source issues still exist, but transmission related macroblocking is diminished due to less (lower resolution) data being sent. Minor overall PQ reduction in re-encoding process.
D*mpeg4 (unknown resolution) @ Unknown bitrate = Original source issues still exist, but transmission related macroblocking is diminished due to less (lower resolution) data being sent. Minor overall PQ reduction in re-encoding process.


vegggas

Word M,

I have the D* HR20, their new MPEG4 DVR. One can select resoultions to output on a selectable resolution, (480i/p, 720p, or 1080i). Or native can be selected, which is what goes in, goes out the same. I set mine to 1080i, just because I can see no difference in native mode. And, it switches channels much quicker that way because my TV and receiver are not constantly changing resoultions to match the incoming channel.

I am in the Summerlin area. Is anyone getting the HD locals over clear QAM? I was up until a few weeks ago. No the only HD station that is in the clear is Fox-5. I can also pickup Fox SD digital, CBS SD digital, and ABC SD digital and Fox weather.

Things really changed when they changed head-ends. At first they had the HD locals mapped to their 700 numbers, but now they are not there.

I would be interested to hear if this is a local issue or city-wide.


Keith

My opinion on dependability is that all providers D*, E* and C* (Cox ;) ) offer roughly the same dependability and uptimes. They are all pretty much available all the time, depending of course on local uptime of the actual stations and their feeds. All of the providers are at the mercy of the local broadcaster's quality and control. If a local station does not "flip the switch to HD" than it will not be shown in HD across all the providers. If a local station is rate shaping and reducing the bit rate of the main HD feed for sub-channels or other reasons, than that same signal will be show across all the providers regardless of what processing and equipment is used by each provider.
With that said, it is what each provider does after they get the signals that may or may not alter the final version that you see. C* and D* gets most of the feeds via a fiber link (or via antenna), which is the SAME signal that goes to the transmitters, so at that point the signals are identical to OTA.
C* takes the transport stream and puts it onto a 256QAM carrier. A 256QAM carrier can transmit 38.4 Mbps or 2 x 19.2 streams with no alterations. This is how HD signals are fed to C* customers. C* vs OTA will be equal in delivery quality, with any differences being in the receiving equipment.
D* takes the mpeg2 HD tranport stream and re-encodes as an Mpeg4 transport stream (no tangent on resolution changes (1920x1080i vs 1280x1080i) that may or may not occur on mpeg4). There is no PQ gained in this process, and if anything, there is a loss associated with the re-encoding of the stream. The BENEFIT is that mpeg4 can offer the same PQ at a lower bit rate than mpeg2, so that re-transmission is not constrained to be kept at a 19.2Mbps level.
E* offers HD signal via an OTA antenna. The latest generation tuners are very good and can offer a better percieved PQ over older generation tuners in D* equipment and in C* STB's with the same original quality signal. They also employ, what I seem to percieve (my opinion) to be a "smoothing of the image, then hardening of the contrast". This smooths out macroblocking, mosquito noise and other related PQ issues and then they use a higher than normal contrasted output to give the image some "pop". Quality factors as mentioned earlier in this thread are dependent on terrain. Some can't get an OTA signal in some areas and must get them from alternative sources. (Note - in my recent long absense, I was using an E* VIP622 DVR and Samsung 61" 1080p display)

A different tangent is the argument between resolution and bitrate. There are entire threads dedicated to that topic, but here is the gist.
With a given HD signal (lets say 1920x1080i) being transmitted at a given bitrate (say less than original rates, maybe 10Mbps), a 1920x1080i signal will breakup more than a 1280x1080i (reduced resolution) at the same given bitrate, thus giving the appearance of better PQ due to less blocking, when the actual resolution is much lower than the original.

1920x1080i @ 19.2Mbps = As clean as originally broadcast OTA, but will have PQ issues, such as macroblocking related to original source (see NBC).
1920x1080i @ less than 19.2Mbps (lets say 10Mbs) = Possible introduction of more macroblocking due to reduced overhead, but still highest resolution possible.
1280x1080i (D* and E* Mpeg2) @ less than 19.2Mbps = Original source issues still exist, but transmission related macroblocking is diminished due to less (lower resolution) data being sent. Minor overall PQ reduction in re-encoding process.
D*mpeg4 (unknown resolution) @ Unknown bitrate = Original source issues still exist, but transmission related macroblocking is diminished due to less (lower resolution) data being sent. Minor overall PQ reduction in re-encoding process.


vegggas

All this is pretty danm accurate. I have Dish and the PQ is amazing using OTA. My TV set also has a ATSC tuner but the Dish picture looks "better" with little or no macroblocking. The OTA tuner also will pick up channels the TV wont and of course I can record OTA with the Dish VIP622.

For those who want the best local HD picture, I would stay away from MurdDocks Turd Birds (DirecTV) and go with Cox for no loss of quality or Dish for the best perceived quality if you can go OTA. For those in fringe areas with roof access, invest in a tall mast and a real ariel antenna and maybe a rotor. Then invest in a good ATSC box or for the same price you can go with the Dish VIP622.

For those who want no provider but need a local HD DVR and are good with computers, build and HTPC with a DVI out video card. Install a DVICO Fusion 5 PCI tuner card and buy BEYOND TV with a firefly remote. I have this set up in my drum room with a Samsung 21" widescreen HD compatible monitor with built in speakers. For local OTA, this HTPC DVR is a good if not better than a Tivo series 3 bought just for HD Locals and the picture quality rivals that of my 42" LCD with the VIP 622 setup.

Since we are talking about DirectTV, there are talks that MurdDoc may sell his turd birds to Malone. I guess its because he is slowly losing to cable and Dish since his mismanagement(opinion) of Directv.

They have the worst HD DVR, worst picture quality, least amount of HD channels and the only thing keeping it alive is the NFL.

There is no question that the two major signal providers for the Las Vegas area are DirectV and Cox Cable. With Dish coming in a distant third. OTA capability may exist, but because of geographic problems (hills, valleys, mtns, high rises, etc) it is rarely utilized.

Therefore, my main question is not so much how does DirectVs HD signal compares with OTA, but how it compares to Cox Cable.
In your opinion;
1.Is the D* HD signal of equal quality and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
2. Is the D* HD signal of better quality and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
3. Is the D* HD signal of poorer quailty and dependability than that of Cox Cable?

Actually the geograpic problems really do not hinder the Vegas signals as much as you would think given that the transmitters are not doing digital in full blast yet.

I suspect that when we go all digital in full power in a few years, hopefully sooner, most everyone in Vegas, except fo those right behind Black Mountain or behind the northern hills, will be able to pick up the channels with rabbit ears.

My buddys at satteliteguys.us have annouced that the Dish VIP receivers will have the ethernet ports enabled next FEB to provide true VOD services including HD!

"DishONLINE is currently scheduled to GO LIVE on February 15th, 2007.

It will feature the following:
- SD and HD Quality Movies
- Music
- Adult Programs
- Entertainment News

Some of the content on DishONLINE may be FREE, some things such as movies will be a one time charge, and some options may encoure a monthly charge (one can only hope that Dish will offer programming such as WWE 24/7 and Howard TV)

Payment for services can be done a number of ways...

1 time payments can be done with a ewallet using a credit or debit card
Paypal
By Check
Or billed to your Dish Network Bill (If your credit qualifies)


Certain programs such as International Channels, Adult and Music Services will be streamed in real time.

Other services such as Cinema Now, certain adult services and other programming can be downloaded to your hard drive for later viewing and you can watch them as they are downloading.

If you have rented a title you have up to 7 days to watch it, however once you start watching it you only have 24 hours to view it. (All DVR features except record will work)

If you purchase a movie, you can keep the program on your DVR forever, however you can not transfer these items to your PocketDISH or other means of storage.

I have a good feeling we will see this demoed at CES, and of course SatelliteGuys.US will be there letting you know all about it. I would love to get in on this beta because this product can be so exciting.

Thats it for now, but I will keep digging. Again this feature could be really exciting, as long as its done correctly and if customers are not gouged by high pricing."

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=84572

You are wrong.

The 2009 deadline is for analong over the air signals. Analog transmission over coax will not cease for a while to come. The FCC will need to require cablecards in all TVs of all sizes for many years before Cox can even think about yanking analog channels. We may see the pruning of analog channels, but no outright elimination.

This still brings many questions though. With the local OTA broadcasters going digital, what will the Cable Co's do?

1) Will they still get an "analog feed" from the local OTA stations and pass it as-is on Coax.
2) If the local feed is digital only, is the Cable Co going to convert to from digital to analog at each headend (or central office), then pass the analog signal onto the Coax. (This is a key question since it alone can extend or quickly kill analog over coax, especially if there is added equipment cost to the Cable Co for carrying a req'd local channel)
3) If the local feed is digtal, will the Cable Co just require anyone wanting to receive these channels to have a CableBox (or CableCard equipment).

While analog over Coax may not die at the same time as the law requires for OTA signals, I still see an all digital cable plant in 2009 as a strong possiblity.

I am in the Summerlin area. Is anyone getting the HD locals over clear QAM? I was up until a few weeks ago. No the only HD station that is in the clear is Fox-5. I can also pickup Fox SD digital, CBS SD digital, and ABC SD digital and Fox weather.

Things really changed when they changed head-ends. At first they had the HD locals mapped to their 700 numbers, but now they are not there.

I would be interested to hear if this is a local issue or city-wide.


Keith


I live in the Lakes area and pick up 6 HD channels on cox unencryped QAM....ABC,CBS,NBC,PBS,FOX,TNT (yes...TNT has been on unencrypted QAM for the last week on channel 112-1.) You may have to have your HDTV rescan for all available stations again .

I live in the Lakes area and pick up 6 HD channels on cox unencryped QAM....ABC,CBS,NBC,PBS,FOX,TNT (yes...TNT has been on unencrypted QAM for the last week on channel 112-1.) You may have to have your HDTV rescan for all available stations again .

I have rescanned, and I can't even see 112-1 as begin available. I guess this is a local (node?) issue. Where are the local HD channels that you get?? Are they mapped to 3-1, 5-1 etc. The only one I get (FoxHD) is mapped to 5-1.

Keith

woke us this morning ,12/18, to find NO CABLE TV service through either my 8300 box or my 3250 box upstairs. The 8300 produces no tv signal at all, just a black screen but all guide data downloaded fine. On the 3250 , i get either black screen or heavy unwatchable pixelization with no guide data at all. On the direct analog cable feed on the main tv downstairs I get a picture with two horizontal interference lines scrolling from bottom to top. I have rebooted everything. Called Cox and they said first available tech call would be THURSDAY !!!

Could this situation have anything to do with the digital conversion??? Internet service is fine.

ALSO,, my unencrypted digital feeds on my direct cable connection are totally pixelated...as I said previously, the analog channels are coming in , although with interference.

Sounds like they are working on your local node and your digital signal levels are low until they finish the work. Go into the diagnostics to check your levels for various channels. With analog directly to your tuner, low level signals can still get through with a lot of snow, but once digitals go below a certain threshold, it's blank. I'm sure it will be back on in a few moments, once the local tech finishes rerouting the lines in the node though.
I just checked my lineup and it looks like all the analog channels are now simulcast as digital. Overall signal levels have risen about 3dB to 4dB over what they were a few months ago before the conversion started.
Cox had said they were going to finish the simulcast before the end of the year, and it looks like they are doing it.

vegggas

Well, i thought it had to be a node type problem but the rep I spoke to seemed clueless as usual. There have been times where there is a problem in the general area and usually they have a recording that says they are aware of the problem and have dispatched tech to the area, but there was no such message this morning.

Veggas,
Are the digital simulcasts of expanded basic unencrypted? If so, can you provide a channel number list?

Congrat to our own GeorgeLV for being interviewed by Multi Channel News....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=769843



"...A pretty tough crowd hangs out at AVSForum.com. Tough as in tough to please.

The site, which has more than 180,000 registered members, (note: actually 331,796 as of 10:30 AM Pacific on Dec. 16) hosts discussions about high-end home-entertainment systems, including high-definition TV sets and programs. For some of these videophiles, even the best HD signals cable and satellite providers deliver aren't good enough.

Consider this post from early December: “Quite frankly, there aren't really any great broadcast or cable HD sources,” wrote GeorgeLV in the site's HDTV Programming forum.

In a private reply, GeorgeLV — whose real name is George Michael Harris — explained that what annoys him about HD networks is the frequent picture “smearing” or “macroblocking,” an effect in which fast-moving elements look like a mosaic of square tiles.

“I'd just be happy if HD consistently looked better than a regular, standard-definition DVD,” he told us. “On many programs, especially sports, it often doesn't.” Harris subscribes to satellite operator DirecTV's high-definition package and receives local HD broadcasts over the air.
PRESSING THE CASE ...."

Veggas,
Are the digital simulcasts of expanded basic unencrypted? If so, can you provide a channel number list?
I don't know. I don't have an easily scanable (manual) QAM tuner to scan channels. Why don't you try it? I just tune the STB to see if it's getting an analog or digital signal although I'm not home right now to check the clear status.
If I had to guess, I would say that they would be encrypted. Basic channels are under $10 and would probably be in the clear, but an expanded basic package would require more fees, and if you wanted them in digital format, you would probably have to get a STB to decrypt them. This would have to be done so that parents can block out channels they deem offensive to their children and eventually users could select a-la-carte channels or a "Family friendly" tier of ABC Family, PAX and Home shopping channels only.

vegggas

This still brings many questions though. With the local OTA broadcasters going digital, what will the Cable Co's do?

1) Will they still get an "analog feed" from the local OTA stations and pass it as-is on Coax.
2) If the local feed is digital only, is the Cable Co going to convert to from digital to analog at each headend (or central office), then pass the analog signal onto the Coax. (This is a key question since it alone can extend or quickly kill analog over coax, especially if there is added equipment cost to the Cable Co for carrying a req'd local channel)
3) If the local feed is digtal, will the Cable Co just require anyone wanting to receive these channels to have a CableBox (or CableCard equipment).

While analog over Coax may not die at the same time as the law requires for OTA signals, I still see an all digital cable plant in 2009 as a strong possiblity.

Its highly likely Cox will take the digital OTA, or a digital stream from a fiber feed (a la KVBC) and then convert it to analog for 3,5,8....

I dont even think we'll see an all digital plant in 2009. I'm honestly targeting 2012-2015. Yes, that far out. There are lots of analog TVs that need to die OR the device to convert it back down from digital to analog needs to be so cheap that its just easier for Cox to install the box at every house or every TV.

Cox and other cable co's will probably have an all digital plant (or all but basic channels) by mid 2007. All "analog" channels are being converted to digital now as seen by the simulcast channels. Most, if not all of those digital simulcast channels will eventually be converted back to analog at the neighborhood node, where a professional D-A converter device could deliver a basic analog channel package.
As each block of analog channels is removed from the entire network system, it opens up more bandwidth on the main network and reduces the overall load on the entire system. Less load on the system means higher signal levels, better images and more/better services.
Node to home bandwidth is greater than and different than the entire system bandwidth. Each node only has to carry two way services for the local residences, including data channels for Internet bandwidth, so they are much less constrained by bandwidth than what is needed for the entire network to duplicate those services.
At least that's what it said in the Multichannel news pullout on cable systems architecture plans.

vegggas

There is no question that the two major signal providers for the Las Vegas area are DirectV and Cox Cable. With Dish coming in a distant third. OTA capability may exist, but because of geographic problems (hills, valleys, mtns, high rises, etc) it is rarely utilized.

Therefore, my main question is not so much how does DirectVs HD signal compares with OTA, but how it compares to Cox Cable.
In your opinion;
1.Is the D* HD signal of equal quality and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
2. Is the D* HD signal of better quality and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
3. Is the D* HD signal of poorer quailty and dependability than that of Cox Cable?
I have a 60" Sony SXRD and have D*TV, Cox and an OTA anntena. I have to say that comparing all of the local HD signals, the OTA signal is by far the best. Cox is second and D*TV is a distant third (sadly as I pay big bucks). Comparing a football game on all three, OTA consistently the best. In any event, I love all things HD.

I watched an evening of HD tonight on Cox Cable, using my 8300HD. I made no adjustments in settings on either my TV or cable box. They have been set to my liking for months now. I especially enjoyed CSI-Miami.

And I noticed something different from the past.

ALL local HD transmissions, CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox and even PBS, looked sharper, brighter, more vivid, with far fewer artifacts. than they have EVER looked for the past two years.

Did Cox do something to their system last night, that caused me to see that much of a difference?

I watched an evening of HD tonight on Cox Cable, using my 8300HD. I made no adjustments in settings on either my TV or cable box. They have been set to my liking for months now. I especially enjoyed CSI-Miami.

And I noticed something different from the past.

ALL local HD transmissions, CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox and even PBS, looked sharper, brighter, more vivid, with far fewer artifacts. than they have EVER looked for the past two years.

Did Cox do something to their system last night, that caused me to see that much of a difference?
See my previous post about system loading:
As each block of analog channels is removed from the entire network system, it opens up more bandwidth on the main network and reduces the overall load on the entire system. Less load on the system means higher signal levels, better images and more/better services.
If your signal was on the edge of the threshold, the improvement of a few extra dB's of signal would show this difference. A rewiring or mixing of your home wiring could have done the same thing.
Another possibility - a longshot, is that you may have been in a neighborhood where you were not near a node and the signal was stretched with multiple amplifiers to reach your home. The inclusion of a Node in your immediate area would reduce the amps needed to get the signal to you home and increase the signal to noise ratio (amps increase noise).

vegggas

Congrat to our own GeorgeLV for being interviewed by Multi Channel News....



Thanks.

Well, i just got my DISH installed yesterday, and got the DVR unit, and 2 VIP211 units.
I had a question, if anyone can help. This morning while setting up some recordings on
the DVR unit, i noticed that in addition to my normal Las Vegas locals, there were also
channel numbers listed that seemed to be HD feeds of the locals. For instance the CBS
shows came up twice, with the second listing for channel 9031, which i assume is in the
HDTV range. Obviously this channel doesnt show up on the VIP211. Can anyone shed some
live on this?

thanks,

Win

Cox and other cable co's will probably have an all digital plant (or all but basic channels) by mid 2007. All "analog" channels are being converted to digital now as seen by the simulcast channels. Most, if not all of those digital simulcast channels will eventually be converted back to analog at the neighborhood node, where a professional D-A converter device could deliver a basic analog channel package.

Didn't know they could do the digital/analog conversion at the node level.

While I don't think it will happen before the end of the decade, once they do complete the "all but basic" digital conversion, they could theoretically require a cable box (or CableCard) for all but the basic channels?

With everyone having a CableBox, that's an exponentially higher number of PPV they can sell. I'm still leaning towards a sooner then later, killing off of analog.

Well, i just got my DISH installed yesterday, and got the DVR unit, and 2 VIP211 units.
I had a question, if anyone can help. This morning while setting up some recordings on
the DVR unit, i noticed that in addition to my normal Las Vegas locals, there were also
channel numbers listed that seemed to be HD feeds of the locals. For instance the CBS
shows came up twice, with the second listing for channel 9031, which i assume is in the
HDTV range. Obviously this channel doesnt show up on the VIP211. Can anyone shed some
live on this?

thanks,

Win

There are no HD locals coming from dish, HD starts at 9430 and the channels you see are re-mapped to the corresponding VHF-UHF channels, eg. 80-00 is 8.

If you use ota, then 8 would be 08-01.

Didn't know they could do the digital/analog conversion at the node level.

While I don't think it will happen before the end of the decade, once they do complete the "all but basic" digital conversion, they could theoretically require a cable box (or CableCard) for all but the basic channels?

With everyone having a CableBox, that's an exponentially higher number of PPV they can sell. I'm still leaning towards a sooner then later, killing off of analog.
That was the 2012 number I guessed at. I dont think Cox will require cable boxes for every TV until much later. The price will need to come down to something like $50/box before cable companies are willing to provide them, or cable cards have taken big enough footholds and the issues get worked out (or whatever cable companies try to persuade the FCC to replace cable cards with).

And just as a side note, it seems my PSIP data is coming back - I told my TV to rescan channels between 80-130 and now I get..

3-2 KVBC HD
3-3 KVBC WX
3-4 KVBC SD

5-1 KVVU HD
5-2 KVVU WX

8-1 KLAS HD

10-2 KLVX HD

13-1 KTNV HD
13-5 KTNV WX/Traffic

No idea what real channels are but at least PSIP is back.

Foghorn2, thanks for the reply. Its kinda weird for them to show in the HD range. thank
goodness i didnt choose the wrong numbers when setting up my fave shows to record,
or i probably would be in trouble with all my recordings. thanks again.

Win

Hey winman, you did the VIP622 right?

I remember you stated you live around Black Mountain. Have you tried OTA yet?
Let me know how the signal there is and what channels you can get and the type of antenna.

No, i only got the VIP211, as i didnt wanna fork out $200.00 for a unit i dont own.
I might go for it in the near future, but as i've never recorded HD before, i'm not
really missing anything. Previously i lived at the foot of Black Mountain, where i only
got the CW station in HD. Now i live closer to the top, and i seem to get almost
everything with a small Zenith indoor antenna. I know i get Fox, Cbs, Nbc, Abc,
and CW. there are few more channels, like MyTv or something, which i have never
heard of, and a few spanish stations. There are also some channels in the 90 range,
but i dont get any pictures on those, so i'm not sure what they are.

When i get home, i'll advise exactly which channels i get, as i do think i wanna get
a better indoor antenna, as some of them arent very strong in the living room, but
are very strong in the bedroom. Right now i've been switching the small Zenith
antenna back and forth. In fact, the signal is so strong in the bedroom, that i pick
up stations without the antenna, just the cable danlging there.

Win

there are few more channels, like MyTv or something, which i have never
heard of

MyTV used to be UPN. It changed at the same time the WB changed to the CW.

ah, ok, i thought UPN + Wb combined to make CW?

Win

More channels (non HD) are currently being tested on the network. Not sure of any public launch dates or if they are for a special events over the next few weeks. These are highly requested channels, but with a political impasse on coverage, so until I hear some definite reasons on the tests, I will NOT comment on what they are.

vegggas

For anyone who is interested, D* has now updated the HR20 software which now activates the OTA tuners. :) You can now receive local broadcasts in HD OTA. An OTA antenna is, of course, required.

More channels (non HD) are currently being tested on the network. Not sure of any public launch dates or if they are for a special events over the next few weeks. These are highly requested channels, but with a political impasse on coverage, so until I hear some definite reasons on the tests, I will NOT comment on what they are.

vegggas


well there was an article today in the LVRJ about Cox coming to terms with CSTV for coverage of the mnt west channel for UNLV coverage.

Well, i thought it had to be a node type problem but the rep I spoke to seemed clueless as usual. There have been times where there is a problem in the general area and usually they have a recording that says they are aware of the problem and have dispatched tech to the area, but there was no such message this morning.


UPDATE... the problem cleared up around Noon so I cancelled the service call that was pending assuming it was a Node equipment problem. All was well until this morning (wed am) when all channels had variable digital pixelization and intermittent garbled audio. The problem cleared up after about 20 minutes but has reoccured on some channels occasionally for brief moments. It may be related to any new node equipment but I'm going to have a tech come anyway to check for loose fittiings, etc.. here at the house. I alread have a signal amp that was installed several years ago by Cox. again, no internet problems.

In regards to OTA on the D* HR20, mine scanned in all the local DTs and subchannels except ch. 3. I get the station strong on all 3 of my digital TV tuners, and Tivo 10-250s. So I suspect trouble with the OTA tuner programing in the HR20. Has anyone else been able to get a signal for ch. 3 with this unit? It shows 3-1 in the guide, but zero signal strength where I should hit about 85%. I have 2 of these units and they both behave the same way. I have heard of similar problems with this frequency in other markets.

well there was an article today in the LVRJ about Cox coming to terms with CSTV for coverage of the mnt west channel for UNLV coverage.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Dec-20-Wed-2006/sports/11535766.html

Today's announcement should provide answers to several questions, including:

Will either channel be on basic cable or a premium tier?

What will the costs be?

Should all 400,000 Cox subscribers expect a rate hike, or will it apply only to those interested in the channels?

When will the channels be added?

Starting 12:01AM Friday Night / Sat AM
CSTV (College Sports TV) on Channel 333
The MTN (Mountain West sports network) on 334
This is part of the "sports and information tier"

I did not want to say what channels they were until it was announced.

vegggas

Starting 12:01AM Friday Night / Sat AM
CSTV (College Sports TV) on Channel 333
The MTN (Mountain West sports network) on 334
This is part of the "sports and information tier"

I did not want to say what channels they were until it was announced.

vegggas

I'm glad to see their on a digital tier and Cox didn't cave in and give them precious analog expanded basic slots.

Does anyone out there wish we would have gotten one of these instead of MHD? I've tried watching MHD and it's pretty boring...

Any rumors of either of these coming to LV Cox soon?

Does anyone out there wish we would have gotten one of these instead of MHD? I've tried watching MHD and it's pretty boring...

Any rumors of either of these coming to LV Cox soon?

Cox already has NFL Network HD...well sort of. The games being shown in HD are available on the Inhd2 channel slot. Besides those live games, the "NFL Replay" games that are broadcast on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and the couple of college bowl games they will be broadcasting, there is nothing else shown in HD. None of the studio shows are HD, nor are any of the highlight shows. It's pretty pathetic.

Starting 12:01AM Friday Night / Sat AM
CSTV (College Sports TV) on Channel 333
The MTN (Mountain West sports network) on 334
This is part of the "sports and information tier"

I did not want to say what channels they were until it was announced.

vegggas

MTN is being shown on Ch. 820 right now for those who want to take a sneak peek.

Starting 12:01AM Friday Night / Sat AM
CSTV (College Sports TV) on Channel 333
The MTN (Mountain West sports network) on 334
This is part of the "sports and information tier"

I did not want to say what channels they were until it was announced.

vegggas
EDIT - It sounds like it will be shown starting Thursday night / Friday Morning at 12:01AM.

vegggas

Does anyone out there wish we would have gotten one of these instead of MHD? I've tried watching MHD and it's pretty boring...

Any rumors of either of these coming to LV Cox soon?
As Bruin95 mentions, Cox already broadcasts the NFL Network on it's standard digital channel 24/7 on 317 since it's launch and all HD games (very few) are on 707.
They also broadcast NBATV on 318 with NBATV-HD games and "VS."(OLN) Channel 60 SD with NHL-HD games on 707.

vegggas

In regards to OTA on the D* HR20, mine scanned in all the local DTs and subchannels except ch. 3. I get the station strong on all 3 of my digital TV tuners, and Tivo 10-250s. So I suspect trouble with the OTA tuner programing in the HR20. Has anyone else been able to get a signal for ch. 3 with this unit? It shows 3-1 in the guide, but zero signal strength where I should hit about 85%. I have 2 of these units and they both behave the same way. I have heard of similar problems with this frequency in other markets.

I have always had a problem getting Channel 3's feed right into my Sony, even before having the HR20. I must state that I am using a Terk Indoor Ant. and get every other channel's signal strength in the 80's, too. But I've heard the same issue from people with roof or attic ant's that just can't get Ch. 3's OTA signal. As long as it comes in HD on my HR20, without having to use OTA, it's something I can live with.

In regards to OTA on the D* HR20, mine scanned in all the local DTs and subchannels except ch. 3. I get the station strong on all 3 of my digital TV tuners, and Tivo 10-250s. So I suspect trouble with the OTA tuner programing in the HR20. Has anyone else been able to get a signal for ch. 3 with this unit? It shows 3-1 in the guide, but zero signal strength where I should hit about 85%. I have 2 of these units and they both behave the same way. I have heard of similar problems with this frequency in other markets.

i have same problem as you. i can't believe what morons the boobs at D* are. i thoguth the hr-250 had the worst OTA tuner in the world...but at least it got 3, if only most of the time.

I know that it has been said that Channel 3's OTA broadcast will aways suck because of the nature of its frequency assignment. (I don't know whether or not that is true, i just know that it has been said.)

But over the last day or two, it has seemed notably worse. Perhaps this is just weather-related.

But I also recall someone saying that they had spoken with the KVBC engineer who when they getting severe issues decided that he would do something akin to a reboot of their encoding/broadcasting software for MPEG2.

Maybe their system needs another reboot? The types of issues that I'm having don't seem to be as much weak signal, and seem to be more strange artifacts. Which of course could be due to a weak signal, I suppose.

Anyway, if anyone knows anyone over there, maybe they could ping them. I'm hoping to be able to watch the Eagles-Cowboys game in full HD splendor! (And not D*'s crappy 8mm HDTV!.)

I am getting all Cox HD channels except 732 ABCHD. Cant get 13-1 on QAM either. Just a black screen. This started in the evening last night (thurs pm) and continues this morning. Anyone else having problems with this feed?

I am getting all Cox HD channels except 732 ABCHD. Cant get 13-1 on QAM either. Just a black screen. This started in the evening last night (thurs pm) and continues this morning. Anyone else having problems with this feed?


I 've got the same problem. And I suspect the fault lies with ABC.

But I also think that Cox has a responsibility to its viewers to inform them when things like this happen. A short, fast moving crawl at the bottom of each functional channel should tell viewers that a problem exists with ABC (or whatever other channel is having such a problem). But as is usually the case with Cox, they wash their hands and like Freddie Prinze say "Not my job, man".

I 've got the same problem. And I suspect the fault lies with ABC.

But I also think that Cox has a responsibility to its viewers to inform them when things like this happen. A short, fast moving crawl at the bottom of each functional channel should tell viewers that a problem exists with ABC (or whatever other channel is having such a problem). But as is usually the case with Cox, they wash their hands and like Freddie Prinze say "Not my job, man".
So you would be in favor of them processing the signal, possibly reducing the quality to add an overlay that says this channel is not available?
Not me!
BTW, its been down at my house too. I think it's a feed problem from ABC.

vegggas

ABC works absolutely fine OTA.

It's the transmitter link (ABC) they are sending to Cox that is out.
Hopefully they will have it up soon.

vegggas
EDIT - I see that it's back up. I didn't have a chance to check before I posted.
v

So you would be in favor of them processing the signal, possibly reducing the quality to add an overlay that says this channel is not available?
Not me!
BTW, its been down at my house too. I think it's a feed problem from ABC.

vegggas

Not me. Put something on the channel that is gone that they are having technical difficulties or something, but not on all the other channels.

OR...put system status info on the cox info channel 107 .... make it actually useful for a change.

So you would be in favor of them processing the signal, possibly reducing the quality to add an overlay that says this channel is not available?
Not me!
vegggas

Does ESPN have a "crawl"?
Does CNN have a "crawl"?
Does Fox News Channel have a "crawl"?
Does MSNBC have a "crawl"?

The answer is YES. Those "crawls" are often informarive and I don't find them intrusive at all.
How about this appearing every 5 mins or so on the operative stations:

"Station X is having technical difficulties. They/we are working to correct them. Thanks for your patience."

Seems to me that would be the professional way to do things instead of allowing all customers to literally remain in the dark.

I don't care to be informed that a channel I'm not even watching is having technical difficulties. If you want to lobby Cox to put up a technical difficulties slate when you tune to a channel that is experiencing an extended outage, then that's perfectly reasonable. (DirecTV does just that.) A system-wide crawl is absurd and will annoy many more than it informs.

Does ESPN have a "crawl"?
Does CNN have a "crawl"?
Does Fox News Channel have a "crawl"?
Does MSNBC have a "crawl"?

The answer is YES. Those "crawls" are often informarive and I don't find them intrusive at all.
How about this appearing every 5 mins or so on the operative stations:

"Station X is having technical difficulties. They/we are working to correct them. Thanks for your patience."

Seems to me that would be the professional way to do things instead of allowing all customers to literally remain in the dark.
Those "crawls" are part of the original broadcast. If Cox were to put up a crawl on the channel after the fact, it would need to re-encode the signal to add the crawl into the image. Re-encoding sucks and diminishes the image quality. D* re-encodes all channels for retransmission, so it makes sense for them to do that.

vegggas

MyNetworkTV must really be crashing and burning. I noticed that the News 3 at 10 on MyLVTV has been moved from channel 21 to channel 33 and is now News 3 at 10 on the CW Las Vegas.

edit-Not only that, but channel 21 HAS DROPPED HD. Hopefully, this is temporary.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5500/kvmy122206ss4.png (http://imageshack.us)

GeorgeLV,

That's a very impressive document. Very colorful and apparently fact filled as well. BUT WHAT THE HELL DOES IT ALL MEAN? AND WHAT THE HELL DOES IT TELL US? AND WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH IT?

Those "crawls" are part of the original broadcast. If Cox were to put up a crawl on the channel after the fact, it would need to re-encode the signal to add the crawl into the image. Re-encoding sucks and diminishes the image quality. D* re-encodes all channels for retransmission, so it makes sense for them to do that.

vegggas

I agree, re-encoding sucks, I was involved with a little cable system that re-encoded DTV and the quality was significantly reduced. Some channels looked almost animated. Cheap encoders I'm sure.

They should provide a system status on the information channel for extended outages though.

OR...put system status info on the cox info channel 107 .... make it actually useful for a change.

I'd LOVE to see that, and would like it if they had a channel with internet outages as well. Just like a network status page for TV and Internet.

I'd LOVE to see that, and would like it if they had a channel with internet outages as well. Just like a network status page for TV and Internet.

Or they could do what one company I worked at did. Have an RSS feed with network outage information...

Yea, I didn't get it either. ;)

Seriously, I agree that having channel *and* network outages on the info channel would be great. I can be fairly patient if I know where the problem is and that someone is aware of it and working on it.

GeorgeLV,

That's a very impressive document. Very colorful and apparently fact filled as well. BUT WHAT THE HELL DOES IT ALL MEAN? AND WHAT THE HELL DOES IT TELL US? AND WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH IT?

It means exactly what I said it meant. A channel that previously broadcasted in HD is no longer doing so. The more technical information is there for the folks interested in bitrates, resolutions, subchannels, and other such matters.

Yep...you can always count on Word Maestro to stir up things in this forum...it was pretty boring during those months he disappeared !! :D

Yep...you can always count on Word Maestro to stir up things in this forum...it was pretty boring during those months he disappeared !! :D

Well, somebody had to do it.
The place was like a tomb.

In little more than a month, all of this "Football Hysteria" (playoff games, bowl games, stupor bowl, all-star games, etc) will be OVER. Then BASEBALL (the ONLY true sport) can once again rule.

Thank God!!

In little more than a month, all of this "Football Hysteria" (playoff games, bowl games, stupor bowl, all-star games, etc) will be OVER. Then BASEBALL (the ONLY true sport) can once again rule.

Thank God!!

The only true sport is rugby.

..and god has nothing to do with it.

Well, somebody had to do it.
The place was like a tomb.

I guess I did not criticise football or Cox enough :D

Then BASEBALL (the ONLY true sport) can once again rule.

Thank God!!

Baseball is a pathetic joke.

The only true sport is rugby.

Rugby on the other hand..... GO ALL BLACKS!!!!!!!


The NFL Rules.

Baseball is for those that are:

1. Old and like to Cat Nap between any real action :)
2. Young and like to have time to run for more beer :)

Footballs rocks, go Steelers!

NASCAR, F1, and AMA roadracing is awesome!

That should set off a few sparks!

NASCAR.....only two more months til Daytona!!!!!!!!! Watch for more fence climbing in '07.
But until then, we have the Dakar rally and the Barrett-Jackson auction.

Apparently, Las Vegas and its environs are loaded with examples of Cro-Magnon men.
Or, by men that live vicariously through the violence of football and the heavy metal of auto racing.

If you can't do it yourself, genuflect before those that can.

Don't you all wish that you were catching that 80 yd pass from Roma or smashing through the defensive line like Tiki Barber? Or maybe driving a metallic, energy wasting hulk, like a racing car at over 100 mph?
Baseball is a true "game". One that your children can (with reasonable safeguards) play in safety. And remember "Sports" involve games. Not a measure of your testosterone level or a substitute for a lack of success or personal happiness.

Apparently, Las Vegas and its environs are loaded with examples of Cro-Magnon men.

Heh, typical Baseball fan, nearly as pompous and he is ignorant.

Don't you all wish that you were catching that 80 yd pass from Roma or smashing through the defensive line like Tiki Barber?

Hmmm...now I could see myself catching an 80 yard pass from Tony Romo and then afterwards catching a rack of ribs from Tony Roma. Thanks, WM, I am now hungry at the wrong time of night. ;-)

Are the major networks scared to show 2.35:1 ratio widescreen movies in their original form? I briefly tuned into ABC earlier this evening and was quite disappointed with ABC's presentation. Even the sound was lousy. No Dolby Digital. ABC isn't the only culprit. I'm guessing the networks are scared to have the top and bottom bars for fear of running of ill-informed consumers. Tsk Tsk.

Heh, typical Baseball fan, nearly as pompous and he is ignorant.

I will agree to the accusation of pomposity. But I am also elegant, well groomed, well educated, anti George W. Bush, and considerate of others. "Ignorance" is unknown to me or members of my family.

Are the major networks scared to show 2.35:1 ratio widescreen movies in their original form? I briefly tuned into ABC earlier this evening and was quite disappointed with ABC's presentation. Even the sound was lousy. No Dolby Digital. ABC isn't the only culprit. I'm guessing the networks are scared to have the top and bottom bars for fear of running of ill-informed consumers. Tsk Tsk..

Buy the DVD.
Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, if you have the capability to play them
Then you will be happy.

The networks idea is to duplicate as fully as possible the movie theater experience. Did you ever see any "black bars" at the top and bottom of a screen in a movie theater? Bet you didn't!!!

.

Buy the DVD.
Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, if you have the capability to play them
Then you will be happy.

The networks idea is to duplicate as fully as possible the movie theater experience. Did you ever see any "black bars" at the top and bottom of a screen in a movie theater? Bet you didn't!!!

Thanks, but I've had the DVD for quite some time. My comment was merely an observation in passing as I had no intention of watching ABC's presentation. Letterboxing (black bars) has been the accepted way of presenting films that are out of range of whatever TV the movie is being shown on. No, you don't see "black bars" at a theater. However, keen attention will enable you to see that they do adjust curtains depending on the aspect ratio of the movie they are showing.

In any case my comment remains the same. The networks seem to have fear of showing 2.35:1 material in its original form. Correct me if I'm wrong, but cable-only channels seem to be the only ones to present 2.35 material in its entirety video-wise. Once again, shame on ABC.

However, keen attention will enable you to see that they do adjust curtains depending on the aspect ratio of the movie they are showing.




Yes, of course they do that. But you can't move the top and sides of your TV screen. If you use zoom or stretch modes you distort the images . The networks compensate for the inability to move your TV screen (as they move curtains in a theater) by re-formatting the film to the 1.78:1 ratio, thus filling your screen WITHOUT any distortion. To me that is far preferable to ANY black borders, ANYWHERE.

StarzHD (or Showtime HD) often fill the screen by using a stretch mode, without re-formatting. I would agree that the stretch or zoom mode is AWFUL.

Yes, of course they do that. But you can't move the top and sides of your TV screen. If you use zoom or stretch modes you distort the images . The networks compensate for the inability to move your TV screen (as they move curtains in a theater) by re-formatting the film to the 1.78:1 ratio, thus filling your screen WITHOUT any distortion. To me that is far preferable to ANY black borders, ANYWHERE.

StarzHD (or Showtime HD) often fill the screen by using a stretch mode, without re-formatting. I would agree that the stretch or zoom mode is AWFUL.

That suits you fine. As for me, I'll take the FULL picture as intended by the director as opposed to someone else's editing for the sake of filling the screen so those with fear/aversion to black bars are satisfied. What's next? Are you going to begin supporting the introduction of the DH to the National League?!? That would satisfy those viewers of my beloved sport who have fear/aversion to watching a pitcher flail away hopelessly at the plate. :-)

Well, I'm still not getting the HD channels for Fox, CBS, PBS, or ABC. I've set my television to rescan several times now and nothing new's popping up. The only HD channel I'm getting is NBC (3.1). I'm using a Mitsubishi DLP TV with internal tuner, and a standard analog Cox cable. I bought an OTA antenna, but the reception where I live isn't very good or maybe my antenna sucks. I'm on the west side of town, Tropicana and Rainbow. A few weeks ago I read that Cox put some of the HD channels in the 100 range, and I received NBC, Fox, and CBS intermittently. Now I get nada. Did they remap it? Another poster said they put it to the 700 range, but I don't receive those channels as I'm not using a digital box. Anybody have a status update on what Cox is doing?

Well, I'm still not getting the HD channels for Fox, CBS, PBS, or ABC. I've set my television to rescan several times now and nothing new's popping up. The only HD channel I'm getting is NBC (3.1). I'm using a Mitsubishi DLP TV with internal tuner, and a standard analog Cox cable. I bought an OTA antenna, but the reception where I live isn't very good or maybe my antenna sucks. I'm on the west side of town, Tropicana and Rainbow. A few weeks ago I read that Cox put some of the HD channels in the 100 range, and I received NBC, Fox, and CBS intermittently. Now I get nada. Did they remap it? Another poster said they put it to the 700 range, but I don't receive those channels as I'm not using a digital box. Anybody have a status update on what Cox is doing?


Why this passion to eschew the use of a digital box?
You paid (probably) several thousands of dollars for a good HDTV and now you are attempting to feed it a signal that a mangy dog wouldn't eat.
It's nice to be a "do-it-yourselfer", but is there some kind of mental triumph involved in not using the easiest, least bothersome, and cleanest method to obtain your HD signal? I know that receiving a strong OTA signal probably provides the clearest picture. But is it worth all the gyrations involved in obtaining it?
Spring for the HD Digital STB, and end your frustrations. Press the "on" button on your TV and STB, tune to the 700s and "voila" there's your HD picture.
No fuss, no muss, no bother.

Well, I'm still not getting the HD channels for Fox, CBS, PBS, or ABC. I've set my television to rescan several times now and nothing new's popping up. The only HD channel I'm getting is NBC (3.1). I'm using a Mitsubishi DLP TV with internal tuner, and a standard analog Cox cable. I bought an OTA antenna, but the reception where I live isn't very good or maybe my antenna sucks. I'm on the west side of town, Tropicana and Rainbow. A few weeks ago I read that Cox put some of the HD channels in the 100 range, and I received NBC, Fox, and CBS intermittently. Now I get nada. Did they remap it? Another poster said they put it to the 700 range, but I don't receive those channels as I'm not using a digital box. Anybody have a status update on what Cox is doing?

Do you even have a QAM tuner in your tv? It's quite possible your fleeting reception of NBC, Fox, and CBS came from ingress of the OTA ATSC signals onto your cable line.

I'm new to the HDTV world.
I have a rinky-dink antenna I got from wally world, but it picks up all the channels except for NBC. And believe me, I've tried to point the antenna in all possible directions.

The nearest major intersection is Nellis and Charleston (NE part of town).

Does anyone have any tips for me, because I really want to watch the Cowboy game today.

All the stores are closed to getting another antenna will have to wait.
But would a better indoor antenna make a difference? I've heard good things about the Silver Sensor.

Thanks in advance.

ps, I can only get HD content from OTA right now.

zik, the digital signal for KVBC (NBC) is on VHF channel 2. The optimal antenna for that is about 9-ft wide, so don't expect an indoor antenna to work. BTW, the silver sensor is a UHF only antenna. It should not be used in Las Vegas because ABC, CBS, Fox, PBS, and NBC are all VHF in Las Vegas. (In almost every other market all of the major stations are UHF, which is why the antenna is so popular.)

zik, the digital signal for KVBC (NBC) is on VHF channel 2. The optimal antenna for that is about 9-ft wide, so don't expect an indoor antenna to work. BTW, the silver sensor is a UHF only antenna. It should not be used in Las Vegas because ABC, CBS, Fox, PBS, and NBC are all VHF in Las Vegas. (In almost every other market all of the major stations are UHF, which is why the antenna is so popular.)

Thank you for the info.
So, do you know of an antenna that would be a good trade off because 9 feet isn't doable.

Thank you for the info.
So, do you know of an antenna that would be a good trade off because 9 feet isn't doable.

Any particular reason you don't have/want cable? That's the easiest way to get all the locals. It's a lot easier than messing around with antennas.

Thank you for the info.
So, do you know of an antenna that would be a good trade off because 9 feet isn't doable.

If you can't do an outdoor install of a large VHF antenna, you'll need Cox or DirecTV to get NBC HD reliably unless you live in a very strong signal area.

Any particular reason you don't have/want cable? That's the easiest way to get all the locals. It's a lot easier than messing around with antennas.
I hate cox cable.

If you can't do an outdoor install of a large VHF antenna, you'll need Cox or DirecTV to get NBC HD reliably unless you live in a very strong signal area.
Thanks again.
I guess I'll have to live with what I have then.

I hate cox cable.

ditto...too expensive $$$ for ****** PQ and below average customer service

ditto...too expensive $$$ for ****** PQ and below average customer service

That post will probably earn you a snotty response from WordMaestro. :eek:

Why this passion to eschew the use of a digital box?
You paid (probably) several thousands of dollars for a good HDTV and now you are attempting to feed it a signal that a mangy dog wouldn't eat.
It's nice to be a "do-it-yourselfer", but is there some kind of mental triumph involved in not using the easiest, least bothersome, and cleanest method to obtain your HD signal? I know that receiving a strong OTA signal probably provides the clearest picture. But is it worth all the gyrations involved in obtaining it?
Spring for the HD Digital STB, and end your frustrations. Press the "on" button on your TV and STB, tune to the 700s and "voila" there's your HD picture.
No fuss, no muss, no bother.

Oh boy... this will open up a huge can of worms. Cox was great for awhile. I could receive all the HD channels using my Cox analog cable feed. Picture quality was pretty good, and I didn't have to use any special equipment. I could use my TV's internal tuner. It seems that Cox has made it difficult for their customers to receive the HD feeds using normal analog service. I believe a previous poster said they're in the process of upgrading equipment which has caused the disruption in service. However, if you call Cox, you'll get the company line of, "You are not subscribed to our HD service." You'll have to upgrade to digital service and get a Cox-issued HD receiver. Of course, this seems to contradict their claim of HD service, "with no additional equipment required." Yes, it is true that they'll provide that equipment, but only if you subscribe to more expensive plan, but they'll only give you one box without an additional fee. Additional boxes cost extra.

Also, by going with a separate cable box/receiver, you're introducing another link to the system. Instead of using your TV's internal tuner, you'll be relying on the Cox box. I'm not sure what that Cox box outputs (Coax/Component/HDMI) or at what resolution (720p/1080i), but my experience has not been good with those boxes. I was at a friend's place in NJ trying to calibrate his box for his HDTV and it was a nightmare. You could not pillarbox the signal through the component outputs, but only with HDMI. We called Cox (or was it Adelphia) and were told that it was not a supported feature through the component output. Oh, and you'll have to add another remote to the coffee table.

Technical issues aside, I'm just upset that they're trying to squeeze more revenue out of something that should be provided with the standard service. Yes, I realize that it's a free market, blah blah blah, and if I'm not happy I can go elsewhere and blah blah blah.

Do you even have a QAM tuner in your tv? It's quite possible your fleeting reception of NBC, Fox, and CBS came from ingress of the OTA ATSC signals onto your cable line.

My internal tuner can do QAM. I was not using OTA at that time because I was receiving all the channels through Cox just fine. I'm currently investigating OTA just so I won't have to deal with the Cox nonsense. I may even give up cable altogether. I've come to the realization that I probably watch too much TV. I have two Replay DVR's with 300 GB's of storage each. I never miss anything, but there's probably more important stuff to do anyway. Maybe I'll just order regular TV service through Cox (standard broadcast channels) and save a few $$$. Besides sports, 80% of what I watch is on the networks.

Twice I noticed that the Cox OnDemand menu's are in the clear. I switched to digital channel 97.x (I think) using my Sony's internal QAM tuner and actually saw someone scanning the OnDemand movie selections. :eek:

Of course, once they found a movie and selected buy, my signal went dead. But for a while it looked my tv was possessed.

Oh boy... this will open up a huge can of worms. Cox was great for awhile. I could receive all the HD channels using my Cox analog cable feed. Picture quality was pretty good, and I didn't have to use any special equipment. I could use my TV's internal tuner. It seems that Cox has made it difficult for their customers to receive the HD feeds using normal analog service. I believe a previous poster said they're in the process of upgrading equipment which has caused the disruption in service. However, if you call Cox, you'll get the company line of, "You are not subscribed to our HD service." You'll have to upgrade to digital service and get a Cox-issued HD receiver. Of course, this seems to contradict their claim of HD service, "with no additional equipment required." Yes, it is true that they'll provide that equipment, but only if you subscribe to more expensive plan, but they'll only give you one box without an additional fee. Additional boxes cost extra.

Also, by going with a separate cable box/receiver, you're introducing another link to the system. Instead of using your TV's internal tuner, you'll be relying on the Cox box. I'm not sure what that Cox box outputs (Coax/Component/HDMI) or at what resolution (720p/1080i), but my experience has not been good with those boxes. I was at a friend's place in NJ trying to calibrate his box for his HDTV and it was a nightmare. You could not pillarbox the signal through the component outputs, but only with HDMI. We called Cox (or was it Adelphia) and were told that it was not a supported feature through the component output. Oh, and you'll have to add another remote to the coffee table.

Technical issues aside, I'm just upset that they're trying to squeeze more revenue out of something that should be provided with the standard service. Yes, I realize that it's a free market, blah blah blah, and if I'm not happy I can go elsewhere and blah blah blah.

You still seem to be going through multiple gyrations. When you get a little older, you will find that a few extra dollars (simply for convenience) is well worth the money.
I too, am not enamored wth Cox or anything it about it. But they also provide my internet service, and so I tolerate their deficiencies. Again - SIMPLY FOR CONVENIENCE. If DirectV offered a decent picture (IN HD) as a service, I would drop Cox Cable so fast their heads would swim. But right now, I don't find Cox HD service to be very bad at all. Of course there is always room for improvement. But they have a cable monopoly in this town, so we're simply stuck with them until something better comes along , but is just as easy to use.

We just switched back to Cox today and got 2 HD DVR's and a regular HD receiver. The ones they gave us were HD8000 (DVR's) and HD3100 (HD receiver). I noticed that some people have the HD8300. Is this a newer box? Is it better? The SARA version on my HD8000 is 1.87.16.1. Also, how do I go about getting the guide to be widescreen?

We just switched back to Cox today and got 2 HD DVR's and a regular HD receiver. The ones they gave us were HD8000 (DVR's) and HD3100 (HD receiver). I noticed that some people have the HD8300. Is this a newer box? Is it better? The SARA version on my HD8000 is 1.87.16.1. Also, how do I go about getting the guide to be widescreen?
EEEE-GADS! They still have those ancient (1999) 3100's? Get rid of that thing and get, at least, a 3250HD (2002) box - That's a big improvement.
The 8000 is the older, slower version of the DVR from SA. The 8300 is a much better unit overall. They both run the same software at 1.87.16.1.

For others, AFAIK, all the local HD channels are still available in the clear. They've stayed in the same frequency range as before the upgrades, but they started passing the original stations PSIP data for OTA tuner compatibility. When I get home, I'll check to see what frequencies they are sitting at. Your tuner may do several different things, depending on how it tunes QAM.

vegggas

EEEE-GADS! They still have those ancient (1999) 3100's? Get rid of that thing and get, at least, a 3250HD (2002) box - That's a big improvement.
The 8000 is the older, slower version of the DVR from SA. The 8300 is a much better unit overall. They both run the same software at 1.87.16.1.

For others, AFAIK, all the local HD channels are still available in the clear. They've stayed in the same frequency range as before the upgrades, but they started passing the original stations PSIP data for OTA tuner compatibility. When I get home, I'll check to see what frequencies they are sitting at. Your tuner may do several different things, depending on how it tunes QAM.

vegggas
What's involved in switching to a newer box? I've had problems with the DVR rebooting and the HD receiver has froze a few times and lost video/sound (guide and channel bar still worked). I called tech support and they told me to just call the local office and bring the equipment down, but will they give me a hassle? Also, how to I get the guide to be widescreen through component or is it not possible?

Cox was great for awhile. I could receive all the HD channels using my Cox analog cable feed. Picture quality was pretty good, and I didn't have to use any special equipment. I could use my TV's internal tuner. It seems that Cox has made it difficult for their customers to receive the HD feeds using normal analog service.

Technical issues aside, I'm just upset that they're trying to squeeze more revenue out of something that should be provided with the standard service.


Wow you paid for analog service and you wanted their newer digital service for free....and you are upset about it....ROFLMAO.

Damn it....I purchased an analog TV in 1995 and it won't do Digital TV!!!! They are making it so hard for me to watch good quality TV...something that I used to get with Analog TV! They should give me a brand new HDTV that WILL DO DIGITAL HDTV for free!!!!! :rolleyes:

What's the current model Cox HD receiver? I have a HD3100 and am going down to the local office to switch it out. What model should I expect?

What's the current model Cox HD receiver? I have a HD3100 and am going down to the local office to switch it out. What model should I expect?
If you don't want an HD DVR, than anything else is a newer HD STB. Not sure what is available locally, but the 3250HD has been the HD stable workhorse for many years now. Just say that you want DVI or HDMI connectivity, which the 3100 doesn't have.
The 8300 DVR also has a eSATA port for Hard drive expansion.

The IPG is a 4x3 format. If you stretch it by changing to a widescreen SD resolution, it will just be stretched.

Be sure to visit the 8300 link in my sig for detailed tips and tricks for SA STB's.

vegggas

We just switched back to Cox today and got 2 HD DVR's and a regular HD receiver. The ones they gave us were HD8000 (DVR's) and HD3100 (HD receiver). I noticed that some people have the HD8300. Is this a newer box? Is it better? The SARA version on my HD8000 is 1.87.16.1. Also, how do I go about getting the guide to be widescreen?

I recently added a 3250HD to my service. When I went to the Cox location on Rancho, they initially tried to give me the 3100HD but I just told the person at the counter that I needed a DVI connection and they swapped it for a 3250HD while I was there.

I also really liked the remote that came with my original 8300HD box and they swapped my remote too. Yes I have extra useless PVR buttons but it works just fine. :)

I recently added a 3250HD to my service. When I went to the Cox location on Rancho, they initially tried to give me the 3100HD but I just told the person at the counter that I needed a DVI connection and they swapped it for a 3250HD while I was there.

I also really liked the remote that came with my original 8300HD box and they swapped my remote too. Yes I have extra useless PVR buttons but it works just fine. :)
The remotes I got for the 3 boxes were all the same. Gray in color with the PVR and On Demand controls at the top. When I swapped the 3100HD today for the 3250HD the lady told me I could just keep the remote because they were all the same. Unfortunately I couldn't swap the 8000HD's because the 8300HD's are out of stock right now.

Well its 7:30 on Wed night and poof goes the wonderful Cox cable television signal again. All channels heavily , unwatchable pixelated. signal levels per diagnostic screen are all at acceptable levels -1 to -7 depending on channel. Cant get through to the office..just a fast busy signal so the outage must affect a large area?? Internet service ok,,,dont have cox phone service . This digital conversion aint makin too many friends for Cox !!!

Well its 7:30 on Wed night and poof goes the wonderful Cox cable television signal again. All channels heavily , unwatchable pixelated. signal levels per diagnostic screen are all at acceptable levels -1 to -7 depending on channel. Cant get through to the office..just a fast busy signal so the outage must affect a large area?? Internet service ok,,,dont have cox phone service . This digital conversion aint makin too many friends for Cox !!!

Same here, Green Valley Ranch area.

Same here in Summerlin Centre.

Well its 7:30 on Wed night and poof goes the wonderful Cox cable television signal again. All channels heavily , unwatchable pixelated. signal levels per diagnostic screen are all at acceptable levels -1 to -7 depending on channel. Cant get through to the office..just a fast busy signal so the outage must affect a large area?? Internet service ok,,,dont have cox phone service . This digital conversion aint makin too many friends for Cox !!!

Same here in Summerlin! I just got done playing my Wii and go to watch some TV before I wind down and no channel is watchable except for PBS (10).

Obviously internet is working or I wouldnt be able to post this.


A friend is reporting channels 2-36 are pixeled, but above is fine.

And now all the channels just froze. Geez, at least its before primetime.

Alls well now, in GVR

Yea looks like its back now.

Wow you paid for analog service and you wanted their newer digital service for free....and you are upset about it....ROFLMAO.

Damn it....I purchased an analog TV in 1995 and it won't do Digital TV!!!! They are making it so hard for me to watch good quality TV...something that I used to get with Analog TV! They should give me a brand new HDTV that WILL DO DIGITAL HDTV for free!!!!! :rolleyes:

I don't really care about Cox Cable's digital service. The only thing I want are the broadcast networks in HD (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC). I would be paying for a lot of services and channels that I would never use. First, I'd have to subscribe to digital service, and then on top of that, I'd have to subscribe to the HD service. That's two tiers above what I really want. We're currently in a transition state and there are very loose definitions on what the cable companies are and aren't required to do when it comes to carrying the networks HD feeds. See the following thread for a discussion:

Ideally, I'd like for Cox to carry a basic analog cable package with support for the networks HD feeds, just like it was earlier this year. Despite my complaints, it looks like some people are receiving the broadcast stations in the clear with their analog service, I may be in an area that's not supported yet or I may just have a crappy internal tuner. However, this may all be a moot point anyway. I'm cutting off a big chunk of my TV addiction by canceling my cable service. I think most cable companies offer a local TV service (just the broadcast channels) for a nominal fee. I'm going to look into that or see if I can mount an OTA antenna outside.

Link for post above...

Link to HD and Cable Providers Discussion (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7307889&&#post7307889)

Does anyone know anything about Tivo coming to Cox? Last I heard was a few months back about a possible Tivo/Cox partnership, but haven't heard anything since. Would it just be a software update to current boxes or would it be new hardware as well?

After Comcast's rollout. Whenever that is. I'd guess Q3 07. I might be wrong though.

Given all the problems the S3 TiVo is having with cable cards and the $800 price tag I'm waiting until the bugs are fixed (if they ever are since some of those bugs are cable company side) and the price to come down a good deal.

I don't really care about Cox Cable's digital service. The only thing I want are the broadcast networks in HD (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC). I would be paying for a lot of services and channels that I would never use. First, I'd have to subscribe to digital service, and then on top of that, I'd have to subscribe to the HD service. That's two tiers above what I really want.


Welcome to the HD world. That's the same thing every DBS and MSO in America is doing.


We're currently in a transition state and there are very loose definitions on what the cable companies are and aren't required to do when it comes to carrying the networks HD feeds. See the following thread for a discussion:


No there are not loose definitions. It's very clear.


Ideally, I'd like for Cox to carry a basic analog cable package with support for the networks HD feeds, just like it was earlier this year. Despite my complaints, it looks like some people are receiving the broadcast stations in the clear with their analog service, I may be in an area that's not supported yet or I may just have a crappy internal tuner.


Yes, the Local OTA Channels in HD are in the clear, even for people just like you. But that's all you will get in the clear - the local OTA stations.

If you do not have a QAM tuner that supports this, that is your problem - again, not Cox's problem.


However, this may all be a moot point anyway. I'm cutting off a big chunk of my TV addiction by canceling my cable service. I think most cable companies offer a local TV service (just the broadcast channels) for a nominal fee. I'm going to look into that or see if I can mount an OTA antenna outside.

Interesting how people pay for a HDTV and then don't want to pay for the product.

It reminds sounds like people buying expensive cars and then not being able to drive them because the price of gas is too expensive - in other words - poor financial planning.

Does anyone know anything about Tivo coming to Cox? Last I heard was a few months back about a possible Tivo/Cox partnership, but haven't heard anything since. Would it just be a software update to current boxes or would it be new hardware as well?

It was supposed to debut on Comcast first (1Q 2007 iirc, although it clearly could be delayed) and then Cox the following quarter - although no idea if it would work on all systems. For the most part, Comcast is Motorola and Cox is Scientific Atlanta, so not sure if one has a lot to do with the other.

Does anyone know anything about Tivo coming to Cox? Last I heard was a few months back about a possible Tivo/Cox partnership, but haven't heard anything since. Would it just be a software update to current boxes or would it be new hardware as well?
It was supposed to debut on Comcast first (1Q 2007 iirc, although it clearly could be delayed) and then Cox the following quarter - although no idea if it would work on all systems. For the most part, Comcast is Motorola and Cox is Scientific Atlanta, so not sure if one has a lot to do with the other.
The Cox announcement was just a few months ago. The Comcast announcement was a few years ago. anything that happens in this area will be at least a few months behind Comcast, with Moto equipment upgrades first, then SA deployment later. The continuing development from Tivo is to develop a port to the Motorola STB's on the current platform that are not OCAP compliant. Then they will develop an OCAP version for tha SA STB's.
After the software is ready, customers will get a letter in the mail asking if they want to upgrade to a "premium" Tivo DVR service. The Tivo service will be on top of your existing DVR service. The Tivo service will be added to you existing equipment for an added mothly fee.
Note that neither Comcast nor Cox are Moto or SA dependent. They acquired individual franchises with the headend encryption systems and deployments that were either built on SA or Moto equipment that were already in place. Around the nation, I think Comcast has about a 60/40 split leaning toward Moto equipment and Cox has about a 50/50 deployment. SA did develop an "overlay" technology to allow the use of their latest generation STB's to ride on top of the Moto platform. It does have some limitations, most notably a decrease in speed functionality and a PQ hit, but allows them to purchase equipment from SA when equipment is scarce [Cable DVR usage skyrocketed, depleting supplies, and exceeding manufactuing capabilities].

vegggas

I just got settled in my new apartment and the Cox folks installed my Cablecards in my TiVo Series 3. I'm getting the QAM HD channels fine, but all the channels below 99 are analog. I see from scanning through this thread that Cox is still working on the digital transition in this area. Is there anyway based on zip code to know if they are done in my area? If they are done in my area then it seems like a Cablecard problem. If they aren't, then I can wait.

Alternatively, do the digital versions of 1-99 have upper range channels assigned I could tune to directly?

Thanks.

I just got settled in my new apartment and the Cox folks installed my Cablecards in my TiVo Series 3. I'm getting the QAM HD channels fine, but all the channels below 99 are analog. I see from scanning through this thread that Cox is still working on the digital transition in this area. Is there anyway based on zip code to know if they are done in my area? If they are done in my area then it seems like a Cablecard problem. If they aren't, then I can wait.

Alternatively, do the digital versions of 1-99 have upper range channels assigned I could tune to directly?

Thanks.
I think the digital upgrade for expanded basic is valley wide, although there are still some areas that need to be finalized and balanced, hence the recent interruptions. The digital expanded basic tier is meant for digital STB users where the STB can negotiate the lineups as needed. The cablecard devices are not able to auto-negotiate with the headend for needed updates to the lineup, so they would only work with a manual push to them. Without feedback, they wouldn't know if the push worked or not.
Either way, a valid subscription to expanded basic is required first for either the analog channels or their digital simulcasts, but I'm not sure whether cablecard devices would get just the analog programming or get the simulcasts too.
Also, Cox has not yet announced a digital lineup for Las Vegas, so it is not yet a final released product.

vegggas

You know vegggas you keep saying that since the cablecards are one way there is no way to know if they worked or not. Since it is a closed system from the cablecard all the way up wouldn't it work everytime. Directv has been using one way cards for years. They don't have nearly the problems that the cablecards have.

My mom got a Series 3 for christmas. The installer came out installed the cards. They were working when he left. Last night I went over and wanted to watch the Rebel game in HD, but the cablecards would tune the channel for about a second then would pop up a screen saying to activate the card call 383-4000, but if I tried Discovery HD or any of the other channels it would be fine. So I called Cox and after being on hold for about 45 minutes my dad told me to forget about and he would call them in the morning. I've only had one issue with my Directv equipment and was only on hold for about 5 minutes.

I personally believe that the cable companies created a piece of junk for a cablecard on purpose. With all the issues TiVo's had with CableLabs in regards to the eSATA port, Multi Room Viewing, and TiVo To Go I believe the cable companies don't want people using equipment that's not supplied by the cable company.

lvthunder, first, I value your opinion here...now to my rant...

And D* has been hacked every step of the way because it is an end device decryptor subject to emulation, wheras, digital cable has been secure for over 10 years because it's a two-way decryptor system that needs random authentication.
For the closed system to work, the communication has to be linked to the host device. If there is any problem with the host device or card receiving the signal, then the possibility of a corrupt signal can happen. Bad wires, splits, AC conditioners, interruptions, etc, etc, can all cause a bad download and a failure.
A sat signal is line of sight and 99.9% of people run new lines [usually only 1 or 2 lines total] to their sat equipment to eliminate cablling issues. It's rare for a sat user to use the existing coax in their home[with multiple splits and random connectors], but they feel it's fine to use the inferior coax for cable service, then complain about it. Anyway, the cablecard has to keep getting an active signal from the host device and from the cable headend to maintain it's decryption status, or else it blanks out. This way, someone doesn't steal your Tivo (or STB)and sell it on Ebay as a full access device.
No matter what you think, cable companies DO NOT WANT TO SUPPLY EQUIPMENT TO CUSTOMERS. It is not in their interest to buy or maintain equipment subjected to user abuse. They are actively pushing towards OCAP so that CE manufacturers can make their own hardware. Tivo, at this late stage, did not even attempt to make the S3 compatible with OCAP, SDV, or even CC2.0. They REFUSED to incorporate any hardware for a return stream that has been established for over 10 years [all digital STB have a return path built in]. If the hardware was there, they could have downloaded the software to the boxes based on CC 2.0 specs [just protocols] as they are finalized. The failure of Tivo's advanced features such as SATA, Mult-Room Viewing and Tivo-2-Go is because they can't make those features as secure as the original transmission from the cable company, thus negating CableLabs security measures.

vegggas

I have been plagued by a recurring problem for more than 2 years now. I first purchased HD service from Cox at that time and have had all the STBs available since. Right now I have the 8300HD. That problem is a recurring "crackle or crack up" in the audio. It isn't constant and isn't always on all stations. But the stations on which it appears is variable and the time of appearance is unpredictable.
At first I thought that some "video" was leaking into the "audio". I DID have that problem with an older analog TV, years ago. And the diagnosis was some defect in the tuner. Which was repaired.

But that problem NEVER manifests itself when viewing DVDs. This leads me to believe that there is some inherent problem with all the Scientific Atlanta STBs offered by Cox. This problem persists no matter which HD output I use. (Component or HDMI). It is particularly bothersome while watching musical performances.

Anybody else have this problem? And what (if anything) can be done about it?

lvthunder, first, I value your opinion here...now to my rant...

And D* has been hacked every step of the way because it is an end device decryptor subject to emulation, wheras, digital cable has been secure for over 10 years because it's a two-way decryptor system that needs random authentication.
For the closed system to work, the communication has to be linked to the host device. If there is any problem with the host device or card receiving the signal, then the possibility of a corrupt signal can happen. Bad wires, splits, AC conditioners, interruptions, etc, etc, can all cause a bad download and a failure.
A sat signal is line of sight and 99.9% of people run new lines [usually only 1 or 2 lines total] to their sat equipment to eliminate cablling issues. It's rare for a sat user to use the existing coax in their home[with multiple splits and random connectors], but they feel it's fine to use the inferior coax for cable service, then complain about it. Anyway, the cablecard has to keep getting an active signal from the host device and from the cable headend to maintain it's decryption status, or else it blanks out. This way, someone doesn't steal your Tivo (or STB)and sell it on Ebay as a full access device.
No matter what you think, cable companies DO NOT WANT TO SUPPLY EQUIPMENT TO CUSTOMERS. It is not in their interest to buy or maintain equipment subjected to user abuse. They are actively pushing towards OCAP so that CE manufacturers can make their own hardware. Tivo, at this late stage, did not even attempt to make the S3 compatible with OCAP, SDV, or even CC2.0. They REFUSED to incorporate any hardware for a return stream that has been established for over 10 years [all digital STB have a return path built in]. If the hardware was there, they could have downloaded the software to the boxes based on CC 2.0 specs [just protocols] as they are finalized. The failure of Tivo's advanced features such as SATA, Mult-Room Viewing and Tivo-2-Go is because they can't make those features as secure as the original transmission from the cable company, thus negating CableLabs security measures.

vegggas

Then why did they bother with CableCard at all if they want OCAP (whatever that is). How many times are they going to change there mind? In your post alone there are 4 different technologies. Sadly I think Congress is going to have to mandate some standard here like there is for telephones and power.

If the cable companies don't want to supply equipment to customers then why do they. You could just as easily go down to the CE store and buy a receiver like you buy a telephone. Directv used to do this and it worked fine. Then for some reason they decided not to do that anymore. That sure sounds like they don't want to provide hardware. They might actually get some manufacturers to make some of these devices if they stop changing the standard every year.

I also don't care about someone recording shows digitally. I've been recording analog shows on VHS my whole life. Why should it change now? The VCR has changed into a DVD player or TiVo. Now someone hacking the card to get PPV for free is another matter, but that can't be done with eSATA or TTG. Also from what I've read a lot of Directv's problem with piracy is leaked documents from the people who made the cards. It's a lot easier to crack something if someone gives you the keys.

I just wish the cablecards worked as advertised. I should of been able to watch the first Rebel Basketball game in HD, but I couldn't because the cablecard wasn't working right after being installed 2 days ago. Being on hold for half the game didn't help my mood at all either.

Word - I have never heard of that problem on a digital receiver. I currently use a variety of different digital STB's (2000, 2100, 3250HD, 8000HD, 8300HD for testing) both on analog and digital audio outputs. You may have an electrical problem in your immediate area causing some kind of interference problem.

lvthunder - Cable card was a mandated solution for rollout last year. Cable companies have been moving toward SDV (switched digital video) and OCAP (open Cable Apllication Platform) for several years (trials started in 1999) and have said that cablecard was at best a stop-gap solution. There are a few systems that are fully OCAP compliant already and a few of the TWC systems have been using SDV since early 2006. CE manufacturers liked cablecard only because they didn't have to put any investment in the technology, other than put in a slot on their tuner devices. SDV and OCAP require a more robust solution that requires 2-way communication and protocol standards to be developed and used.

vegggas

Every time the Cable Co's are mandated something, they half-ass it or breat it somehow and make excuses. Firewire and Cable Cards come to mind.

It is very apparent the Cable Co's want you to rent their boxes reguardless of what they, or their cheerleaders, tell you to make you beLIEve.

^^ foghorn, so how many letters have you written demanding Dish provides a cable card solution?

Word, I have similar issues with audio lately. Most notably on music channels. Just drops out for a few seconds every once in awhile. It's annoying, but hopefully it will clear up when their done adjusting the new head end.

Cable CO's and cable boxes: Put yourself in the Cable Co's shoes. The box cost several hundred dollars, then someone has to prep it for the system, then someone has to handle inventory, accounting. Someone has to install it, repair it, chase it down when people move. Fight with customers to get reimbursted for kool-aided boxes and remotes. I bet it cost the cable Co's at least $1000 over a 4 year period to purchase and maintain one cable box. Probally more for a DVR. $1000 over 48 months is over $20 in overhead per box, per month!. I don't see any profit in this!

Then fasteddielv why don't we see a better implamented cable card so they can get out of the hardware buisness. My parents rented a cable modem for about a decade or so. That $5/month was a profit for Cox for at least eight years. I personally think the build quality of the SA boxes Cox uses are poor. I know my cable box when I had it stuck out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of my equipment. I used to call it my clock radio box because that's what it looked like.

As I have stated many times previously, when DirectV finally gets its act together and improves the PQ of our local stations, users will flee from Cox like rats from a sinking ship. Personally, I would jetison Cox right now, but I live in an apartment and cannot install a roof or attic antenna to receive HD over-the-air. Also, Cox provides my internet service with which (in all honesty-except for its cost) I am NOT particularly dissatisfied.
In the not too distant future we will have not only DVRs which record in HD,(which we already have) but DVD RECORDERS which will be capable of archiving a recording in either the blu-ray or HD-DVD format. When D* gets its act together and when such DVD recorders become available, Cox's stock will go WAY DOWN.

But then again when Cox has significant competition in our local market, we might find that their services and equipment will suddenly improve dramatically, WITH an accompanying decrease in costs of those services and equipment

Welcome to the HD world. That's the same thing every DBS and MSO in America is doing.



No there are not loose definitions. It's very clear.



Yes, the Local OTA Channels in HD are in the clear, even for people just like you. But that's all you will get in the clear - the local OTA stations.

If you do not have a QAM tuner that supports this, that is your problem - again, not Cox's problem.



Interesting how people pay for a HDTV and then don't want to pay for the product.

It reminds sounds like people buying expensive cars and then not being able to drive them because the price of gas is too expensive - in other words - poor financial planning.

Wow, just wow. I don't even know how to reply to this, but to fan the flames of trolldom, I'll defy futility...

Well, let's break this down. Yes, I have a QAM tuner, and I realize that other than sending the signal to my house, Cox doesn't have any responsibility for my system. The only question is I'm not sure if Cox if sending the signal to my house and if I ask, I'm not going to get an answer. I am well aware of this.

As far as paying for HDTV and not wanting to pay for the product... you do realize that there are other HD sources besides cable, right? I have PS2 outputing 1080i for Gran Turismo 4. I have an upconverting Oppo DVD player that can spit out a picture that's almost as good as HD-DVD. I have a XBox360 in a box waiting to be plugged in for Gears of War. I have a MediaPC plugged into a spare HDMI jack at 1080i resolution.

Poor financial planning? I just earned a MBA with a specialization in finance. I have perfect credit. I bought the Mitsubishi DLP at a clearance sale at Fry's for half its retail price with 0% financing, no payments until 2008, and I have no intention of paying a finance charge on it. Forgive me if I don't want to spend an extra $60/mo for my cable bill.

I have PS2 outputing 1080i for Gran Turismo 4. I have an upconverting Oppo DVD player that can spit out a picture that's almost as good as HD-DVD. I have a XBox360 in a box waiting to be plugged in for Gears of War. I have a MediaPC plugged into a spare HDMI jack at 1080i resolution.



Would you kindly translate that into English?
Thank You.

^^ foghorn, so how many letters have you written demanding Dish provides a cable card solution?

Why would one need a cable card with SAt?

The cable cards for CABLE COMPANIES are mandated because they are MONOPOLIES.

Hey all. As you can tell, I'm new to the forums. I've been reading some posts over the few days and I've learned quite a bit from you guys. Here's a little info about myself and my experience with HDTV. I've owned an HDTV for about 2 1/2 years. It doesn't have a built-in atsc tuner. I mainly bought it for gaming and watching widescreen DVDs. I upgraded to digital cable with the HD tier through Cox for last years play-offs and the Super Bowl. The picture quality is amazing, but after that I didn't really watch it much. The channel that I watch the most, CW (which was WB at the time), wasn't carried on the HD tier. So, I cancelled it. Since then, I've bought a Media Center PC with a dual analog tuner for recording TV. I use my Xbox 360 as a Media Center Extender to schedule and playback my recordings, which works great.

Now that the CW is broadcasting locally, I wanted to start watching my shows in HD. I picked up a HVR-950 HDTV stick for a atsc tuner. It works really well for all but two channels. It seems that 1031 (NBC) and 1081 (CBS) are not getting signal. I live just east of the 215 at Cheyenne.

Do you guys have any suggestions on what I should do to get these two channels to come in?

Folks, I've been trolling the forums for a while, been a pretty satisfied D* customer, with 2 DirecTivo's and 2 MS UltimateTV's that work quite will, especially with the new SW. But I was having some dropped channels, especially on my east coast network HD feeds and ESPN2 (big deal in Bowl season), so D* sent out the techs and basically said the original installers didn't weather proof very much so I need the all new equipment, New AT9 dish 2 multiplexers since the AT9 can expand to all the drops I need, long story short, they'd give me 3 of the new Newscorp HD DVR's and then I could get my locals from D* MPEG4 link and I could cancel my east and west coast feeds since I would now have local service. And that was the only option to not have to come out of pocket for fixing the install.

I like my east and west coast feeds, I still get local OTA HD from my DirecTivo's, so all this new stuff is only bad for me, the new HD DVR's are supposed to suck. So what I did is go on D* for 6 month vacation, you can suspend you acct for up to 6 Months and do it once a year. Then I got Cox to add digital TV service on top of HSI (which is quite qood), they had a pretty good 6 month special. So they've come out and uncapped my line and handed me the 2 SA8300hd's and they work OK, so no on to the questions.

1. With my service to directv suspended but not cancelled, are my Tivo's still validated to record OTA shows?

2. I hate those SA8300HD's, are the new D* HD DVR's better or worse? If better, I may move back D* , but replace the ultimateTV's with HD boxes if they suck less than the 8300HD

3. Is it normal for the 8300hd to record a show, show it in the list as recorded, but when you select play, it just goes to the playback channel and sits there, as in it didn't really record? Happened to two bowl games so far this week.

4. What firmware is distributed in vegas for these boxes normally, and can you get cox to load a new version if you don't have the most modern?

5. Should I just go and get a couple of S3 Tivos, I've seen then all over for $589-$627 and then I can use a solid UI,and 30 second skip, assuming cox has its CC issues sorted.

6. My mom lives in Cincinnati and she has the same box, but her's has an option for view scheduled series if you hit the list button on the 8300hd, mine don't have that is that optional for each cable company, she has Time Warner with the passport echo UI. That's one of the reasons I was OK with leaving DirecTV, her's seems to work pretty well, kind of kludgy but the only real thing I miss was some of the series recording options, and hers was rudimentary but there, but my 8300hd basically has nothing. Is there any new firmware or advanced config that will let me change that?

Thanks in advance
Rick

Well, let's break this down. Yes, I have a QAM tuner, and I realize that other than sending the signal to my house, Cox doesn't have any responsibility for my system. The only question is I'm not sure if Cox if sending the signal to my house and if I ask, I'm not going to get an answer. I am well aware of this.
They are as other have stated.


As far as paying for HDTV and not wanting to pay for the product... you do realize that there are other HD sources besides cable, right? I have PS2 outputing 1080i for Gran Turismo 4. I have an upconverting Oppo DVD player that can spit out a picture that's almost as good as HD-DVD. I have a XBox360 in a box waiting to be plugged in for Gears of War. I have a MediaPC plugged into a spare HDMI jack at 1080i resolution.


So don't complain that you put your entertainment budget into games and not live tv.




Poor financial planning? I just earned a MBA with a specialization in finance. I have perfect credit.

So did the CFO of Enron.


I bought the Mitsubishi DLP at a clearance sale at Fry's for half its retail price with 0% financing, no payments until 2008, and I have no intention of paying a finance charge on it. Forgive me if I don't want to spend an extra $60/mo for my cable bill.

Then don't complain. You are getting exactly what you paid for. You state you are going to cancel cable anyway, so as you state its a moot point.

Is it normal for the 8300hd to record a show, show it in the list as recorded, but when you select play, it just goes to the playback channel and sits there, as in it didn't really record?


If you select the recording from the DVR menu while the show is still in progress it will jump to live TV. However, you can rewind from that point to the beginning of the program since it's been recording to that point. Unfortunately, it kicks you out when the program ends and you have to select the program again and ff to the point where you left off -- very annoying. Newer firmware corrects that issue and allows you to select "play from beginning" if the show is in progress -- and you don't get kicked when the live program ends. I don't know if you'll be able to get the newer firmware, it seems to be hit or miss (mostly miss?) if you call in and ask.

Wow, someone's been drinking the hatorade. I get my HD for free w/ Cox. I was vocal about locals being in the clear back when I first got my TV 18 months ago. Other than the once or twice a year remaps, its not too bad.

Wow, someone's been drinking the hatorade. I get my HD for free w/ Cox. I was vocal about locals being in the clear back when I first got my TV 18 months ago. Other than the once or twice a year remaps, its not too bad.


yep....working as its supposed to.

Wow, someone's been drinking the hatorade. I get my HD for free w/ Cox. I was vocal about locals being in the clear back when I first got my TV 18 months ago. Other than the once or twice a year remaps, its not too bad.

So if my TV has a built in HD tuner can I split my coax and plug one cable directly into my TV and view HD Channels? Could I then use a regular set top box with the other coax to get the digital channels and save $10/mo getting rid of an HD outlet?

Thanks.

So if my TV has a built in HD tuner can I split my coax and plug one cable directly into my TV and view HD Channels? Could I then use a regular set top box with the other coax to get the digital channels and save $10/mo getting rid of an HD outlet?

Thanks.

In theory that would work. You should be able to get local HD channels via cable. You would be giving up premiums (HBO, SHO etc.) in HD.

So if my TV has a built in HD tuner can I split my coax and plug one cable directly into my TV and view HD Channels? Could I then use a regular set top box with the other coax to get the digital channels and save $10/mo getting rid of an HD outlet?

Thanks.

What's an HD outlet?
There is no charge for HD channels above and beyond normal programming fees for the SD channels. The only difference in pricing would be that an HD STB cost a few more dollars to rent over the SD version (they cost more to purchase [cable co] over SD units).


vegggas

In theory that would work. You should be able to get local HD channels via cable. You would be giving up premiums (HBO, SHO etc.) in HD.

And give up the other semi-premium HD channels like Discovery HD Theater, INHD, Universal HD, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, MHD and TNT HD. These come with the basic HD package from Cox; but they are digitally scrambled so you gotta have an HD box. If you're a sports or music fan, you'll really miss not having these. Otherwise you can probably get by without 'em for the most part.

Thanks guys.

And give up the other semi-premium HD channels like Discovery HD Theater, INHD, Universal HD, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, MHD and TNT HD. These come with the basic HD package from Cox; but they are digitally scrambled so you gotta have an HD box. If you're a sports or music fan, you'll really miss not having these. Otherwise you can probably get by without 'em for the most part.

It looks like TNT HD is QAM in the clear. I don't have the HD package, but I am able to get TNT HD along with the local HD channels.

I was getting TNTHD in the clear on QAM for the last few weeks on the 112 channel tier but as of last night it was no longer there.

It looks like TNT HD is QAM in the clear. I don't have the HD package, but I am able to get TNT HD along with the local HD channels.

See what you did? :eek:

Is anyone else using the Cox DVR (8300) finding a HUGE difference between component and HDMI output? Things seems significantly darker over component, the only way to get the picture the same was to min/max some settings on my tube.

Not happy, but the DVI/HDMI had to go to a PS3.

See what you did? :eek:

Sorry. :(

I also am no longer getting the TNTHD in the clear. What's interesting is that I was getting it in the 700 range, but now I just get a black screen (not even a gray "you're not allowed to view this screen).

Oh well.

Is anyone else using the Cox DVR (8300) finding a HUGE difference between component and HDMI output? Things seems significantly darker over component, the only way to get the picture the same was to min/max some settings on my tube.

Not happy, but the DVI/HDMI had to go to a PS3.
On equally calibrated inputs, they are usually quite equal. Most, if not all displays have different video calibration levels for each input. Unless you display has been professionally calibrated across those inputs with equipment designed to output specified levels over digital and analog outputs, the differences can be dramatic.
Often, the HDMI input on most displays can't display dark levels as well as component inputs either. What you may consider too dark, many of us would call correct and your brighter viewing would be called "torch mode".
With all that said, a bad component cable or connection (even inside the display or STB) can also can reduce the luminance levels associated with brightness (voltage reduction due to bad contacts).

vegggas

It looks like TNT HD is QAM in the clear. I don't have the HD package, but I am able to get TNT HD along with the local HD channels.
"There is no HD package" If you have digital cable and a HD STB, you get all available HD channels.

vegggas

"There is no HD package" If you have digital cable and a HD STB, you get all available HD channels.

vegggas

Then why does the Cox web site show a separate tier with the HD channels, the Cox reps ask you if you want the HD tier when you sign up for digital cable, and on the web site it says "If you want the maximum amount of High Definition programming and true HD picture from your HDTV, you need Cox HD Service." (emphasis mine)

Are you saying if I have cablecards and digital gateway that I should be getting all the available HD channels (minus all the movie channels in HD obviously)? If so then Cox did not setup my account correctly. Or do you have to get one of the actual digital cable tiers?

No, I said that if you have digital cable with an HD STB, you get all the HD (standard) channels automatically. There is no seperate tier to add HD channels, there is no line item or charge for HD channels. If you subscribe to HBO and all the SD versions, the moment you get an HD capable STB, the HD version is also available cause the STB can receive it. If you were to have an HD STB and specifically requested NOT to get the HD channels (silly) you wouldn't save any money, but would have less channels available.
Cable cards are not HD STB's. They are only decryption receivers that use the host device (TV or Tivo, etc) for tuning and receive the revolving ECM streams and gets encryption keys updated which allows for broadcasts based on your subscritptions. Cable cards are also not compatible with HD On Demand services like library selections (EOD) or SDV broadcasts (which are rumored to be all recent and future new channels).

vegggas

Um, thanks I guess. That didn't really answer my question, but it did a great job towing the party line against cable cards.

I did some more checking, and I found a small note on the Cox site indicating that digital cable service (not just the digital gateway) is required to get the additional HD channels with a cable card. So for folks who might actually be interested in an answer instead of propaganda I thought I'd post this.

Um, thanks I guess. That didn't really answer my question, but it did a great job towing the party line against cable cards.

I did some more checking, and I found a small note on the Cox site indicating that digital cable service (not just the digital gateway) is required to get the additional HD channels with a cable card. So for folks who might actually be interested in an answer instead of propaganda I thought I'd post this.


What is the definition of digital cable service? :rolleyes:

There's no vast conspiracy against cable cards. The facts are that they lack much of the basic functionality of a digital cable box and will not be compatible with upcoming (and for that matter current) upgrades to cable infrastructure.

We've been using TV speakers since we moved here so I have no idea what kind of surround sound is provided by Cox, but does anyone use the HDMI for audio-out on an 8300, and is full surround (I'm guessing DDigital 5.1) sent through that?

I'm looking at buying a receiver and I have no idea if I can use HDMI for both video and sound or should hook up optical like I used to do with DTV.

There's no vast conspiracy against cable cards. The facts are that they lack much of the basic functionality of a digital cable box and will not be compatible with upcoming (and for that matter current) upgrades to cable infrastructure.

And who made these cablecards that lack much of the basic functionality of a digital cable box and will not be compatible with upcoming (and for that matter current) upgrades to cable infrastructure?

The answer would be the same people who made the cable box and the upgrades that are not compatible with the card. That's who.

So how many people are going to be pissed off when they find out there $800 TiVo or there $1000 TV doesn't work like the manual told them so because the cable industry keeps changing the standards.

We've been using TV speakers since we moved here so I have no idea what kind of surround sound is provided by Cox, but does anyone use the HDMI for audio-out on an 8300, and is full surround (I'm guessing DDigital 5.1) sent through that?

I'm looking at buying a receiver and I have no idea if I can use HDMI for both video and sound or should hook up optical like I used to do with DTV.

5.1 and Dolby Digital is available through HDMI. Problems is, most if not ALL TV's do not accept anything above PCM stereo over the HDMI input. The display device sends data to the STB that forces the output to be PCM stereo. You can override the HDMI in some cases and get DD out, but then you won't get audio over the TV speakers (cause the TV won't accept DD). If the receiver uses the display data, it might not work at delivering DD audio, but if the receiver is a sink device with it's own data, it might not allow HD signals to be passed.
Your original configuration with an optical or coax digital audio connection and HDM to the display will be the best bet for compatibility.

vegggas

And who made these cablecards that lack much of the basic functionality of a digital cable box and will not be compatible with upcoming (and for that matter current) upgrades to cable infrastructure?

The answer would be the same people who made the cable box and the upgrades that are not compatible with the card. That's who.

So how many people are going to be pissed off when they find out there $800 TiVo or there $1000 TV doesn't work like the manual told them so because the cable industry keeps changing the standards.

Didn't we already have this conversation?
Cablecards were forced down the cable industry's throats as a stop gap measure by the FCC until the cable industry came up wth their own non-cable STB dependent security measures. Tivo knew long ago that they should have included a return system in their next gen products to be ready for OCAP and SDV systems, but they flat out REFUSED to include that technology. Now, they will all become obsolete for any new content or technologies available to everyone else. OCAP has been in development for several years, with MANY manufacturers with products at LAST YEARS CES show. SDV had also already been deployed in several test markets as well. All of this was NO SUPRISE to Tivo during last years CES and even the one before that.

vegggas

What is the definition of digital cable service? :rolleyes:From the Cox Las Vegas Website
http://www.cox.com/lasvegas/digitalcable/default.asp
Now get all the program choices you want plus the digital quality you've heard about at a price you won't believe! Cox Digital Cable works through your existing Cable TV lines so you won't need a new TV, expensive dish or antenna.
You get:

Over 240 Channels
Interactive Program Guide
45 Channels of Digital Music
Access to Pay-Per-View
Entertainment On Demand
DVR service is available to Digital Customers
Digital cable service is a two way interactive service supplied with digital STB's and digital programming packages.

A cable card is just a per channel decryptor for your own TV (or Tivo) tuner with none of the digital cable services.

vegggas

If the receiver uses the display data, it might not work at delivering DD audio, but if the receiver is a sink device with it's own data, it might not allow HD signals to be passed.
Er, what? I'm struggling a little to understand.

My plan was to buy one of those Onkyo 604 receivers that garners near-universal praise here and go 8300 -(HDMI)-> Onkyo -(HDMI)-> TV with the sound coming out of the speakers attatched to the Onkyo, and the picture passing through and being sent to the television.

That can't be done? Or that can be done and I won't get 5.1?

The HDMI protocol from the Display (TV) dictates the audio and video charateristics of the STB. If the receiver acts as it's own device (sink), it could request and use 5.1 DD audio and authenticat the HDCP handshake. If the receiver just acts as a "hub" and passes (requests) commands from the TV, the PCM stereo mode will be chosen, but you might be able to override it and force DD out, although the TV won't be able to process it. The problem is that most STB's will not allow "hub" devices and need to connect to the actual display or "sink" device that can authenticate HDCP handshakes.
Still confused? So are thousands of other users trying to use HDMI with true HD capable devices. There are no guarantees with HDMI compatibilities, although things are getting a bit better.

vegggas

Tivo knew long ago that they should have included a return system in their next gen products to be ready for OCAP and SDV systems, but they flat out REFUSED to include that technology.

This is technically true and ignores the fact that OCAP has been a moving target until very recently. In addition OCAP basically requires the CE vendor to just make a box while the cable company controls the user experience and services. So really, OCAP is designed to extend the cable monopoly on the user experience while giving the consumer "choice" only in what electronics device will run the mandated experience.

Cablecard on the other hand allows the CE device to have it's own experience. I agree that it was "forced" on the cable industry, but it was only forced on the industry because they couldn't come up with a solution themselves. In many ways OCAP came about becasue of the cablecard mandate. In addition, the cable companies could have been forward thinking with regards to cablecards, but because cablecards didn't allow them a monopoly on the interaction with the customer, they intentionally designed something they knew wouldn't work with any of the upcoming technologies.

The thing that frustrates me is that while the CE manufacturers and the cable monopolies are busy bitching about and at each other then one big loser is the consumer.

With a number of cablecard based Vista devices coming out at CES, it will be interesting to see if Microsoft will put up with this kind of crap from the cable monopolies.

"There is no HD package" If you have digital cable and a HD STB, you get all available HD channels.

vegggas


thats true...BUT doesn't the HD box cost and extrA 9.95 / month than a standard digital box?

Is anyone else using the Cox DVR (8300) finding a HUGE difference between component and HDMI output? Things seems significantly darker over component, the only way to get the picture the same was to min/max some settings on my tube.

Not happy, but the DVI/HDMI had to go to a PS3.


What I did notice that when I used component hookup for the 8300, changing the format option on the setting page from various options (fixed, upconvert1,etc)did change the luminescence a bit. But I don't notice the same change using HDMI hookup.

Didn't we already have this conversation?
Cablecards were forced down the cable industry's throats as a stop gap measure by the FCC until the cable industry came up wth their own non-cable STB dependent security measures. Tivo knew long ago that they should have included a return system in their next gen products to be ready for OCAP and SDV systems, but they flat out REFUSED to include that technology. Now, they will all become obsolete for any new content or technologies available to everyone else. OCAP has been in development for several years, with MANY manufacturers with products at LAST YEARS CES show. SDV had also already been deployed in several test markets as well. All of this was NO SUPRISE to Tivo during last years CES and even the one before that.

vegggas

Yeah we have had this conversation before, but the way you put it the FCC told the cable industry here use this. Where in fact cablelabs came up with the cards not the government.

I have a question for you. How long should TiVo have waited to release the HDTiVo? Do you know how many years TiVo showed the HDTiVo at CES before it came out? I remember seeing one in 2003. Also how much hardware should they put in that may or may not ever be used. As far as I know the TiVo is the only cablecard device that isn't a TV. I wonder why?

What I did notice that when I used component hookup for the 8300, changing the format option on the setting page from various options (fixed, upconvert1,etc)did change the luminescence a bit. But I don't notice the same change using HDMI hookup.

Just an idea but did you try another set of component cables?