lvthunder,
All they needed was to add the hardware for a return path to enable OCAP and SDV compatibility. That hardware has been around since the inception of digital cable, which has been around since the mid 1990's. That gave them at least 10 years to figure it out. Given that if Tivo had supplied this functionality, they could have enabled the service on existing Tivo's and already installed cablecards once the protocols were worked out via a simple download.
A common misconception is that there is a CableCARD 2.0 physical card that will provide two way services and will not be compatible with CableCARD 1.0 certified devices. This is not the case. CableCARD 2.0 host devices will only use either SCards or MCards that also work with CableCARD 1.0.
Interactive CableCARD 2.0 features rely on additional circuitry in the CableCARD Host device, not what is on the physical card. There is no directionality about the cards. This makes the name “CableCARD 2.0” extremely misleading, since it mostly has nothing to do with the physical CableCARDs

Also, from what I can tell, the FCC created the rules (with CE companies) for cablecard and cablelabs had to certify them to their standards. see link
http://news.com.com/FCC+adopts+plug+and+play+cable+for+TVs/2100-1041_3-5074425.html


vegggas

thats true...BUT doesn't the HD box cost and extrA 9.95 / month than a standard digital box?
Umm, Not. As far as I can tell.
Digital Receiver (SD) and Remote - Monthly Rate = $4.95
Digital Receiver (HD) and Remote - Monthly Rate =$10.25
So an HD receiver is $5.30 more a month rental over an SD receiver. Compare the pricing for an SD Tivo and an HD Tivo and you will see why the hadware is more expensive to rent. All the programming pricing is exactly the same between SD and HD services. The advantage of having an HD receiver allows the ability to get HD channels that are part of your SD subscription services.

vegggas

lvthunder,
All they needed was to add the hardware for a return path to enable OCAP and SDV compatibility. That hardware has been around since the inception of digital cable, which has been around since the mid 1990's. That gave them at least 10 years to figure it out. Given that if Tivo had supplied this functionality, they could have enabled the service on existing Tivo's and already installed cablecards once the protocols were worked out via a simple download.


Also, from what I can tell, the FCC created the rules (with CE companies) for cablecard and cablelabs had to certify them to their standards. see link
http://news.com.com/FCC+adopts+plug+and+play+cable+for+TVs/2100-1041_3-5074425.html


vegggas

You keep only talking about the HDTiVo. What about all the TV's out there that have CableCards now. Also if the FCC mandated these cards don't you think they are going to mandate that they not be obsoleted so fast.

Also couldn't TiVo just create a USB box to do the return path if it is needed.

Speaking of TIVO....

Engadget is showing pictures of the Comcast TIVO DVR:

Engadget Link (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/comcast-dvr-with-tivo-pics-features/)

Yeah we have had this conversation before, but the way you put it the FCC told the cable industry here use this. Where in fact cablelabs came up with the cards not the government.

I have a question for you. How long should TiVo have waited to release the HDTiVo? Do you know how many years TiVo showed the HDTiVo at CES before it came out? I remember seeing one in 2003. Also how much hardware should they put in that may or may not ever be used. As far as I know the TiVo is the only cablecard device that isn't a TV. I wonder why?


No - Mitsubishi has had a HD Cablecard DVR for 2 years (maybe since 2004).

And the Sony cablecard DVR that has also been discontinued...

vegggas

You keep only talking about the HDTiVo. What about all the TV's out there that have CableCards now. Also if the FCC mandated these cards don't you think they are going to mandate that they not be obsoleted so fast.
People are not yelling about their TV's becoming obsolete because they can use a STB to get all the programming they need. They are yelling that their Tivo will be obsolete for cable use because it can only work with a cable card. There is no other input on a Tivo, like a TV has. The people with Tivo's are actually trying to stop progress that will enable more content and services for custometrs. You may as well ask D* to not add those 100 HD channels, because they can't be used with their old Tivo's since they will be MPEG4. Suddenly, the street price of the D*Tivo just plummeted, as will the S3 later this year as cable companies add all their new content as SDV.
If the FCC had the power to mandate that technology is not obsolete, there would be no technical innovation. I wish my HDTV had HDMI or even DVI digital inputs, but it doesn't. I've brought home several (smaller too) TV's that were digital compatible, but nothing looks as good or is as big as my still working and current display.

vegggas

The only reason the TiVo won't work with the new D* stuff is a D* not wanting to use TiVo products anymore. TiVo could come up with a version that would work with MPEG4 instead Directv wants to use there own companies products. I personally think that any CE company should be able to make a D*, or E*, or whoever else's TV system they want. Imagine if any other utility company was like this. You don't have to worry what land based phone to buy, because they all work with every land based system in the country.

Also not everyone wants a set top box. Especially if you must pay a rental fee for every TV in the house. Then tack on the digital gateway fee. You know Cox charges my parents for the digital gateway for both cards that are in the same TiVo. And the TV commercials talk about all the fees for satellite.

Also the more I hear about OCAP the more I don't like it. Does anyone know a JAVA application that runs as fast as native code. No wonder those cable boxes are so less responsive then the TiVo box.

Also what do you mean if the FCC had the power. Of course they have the power to make the cable companies live up to the cablecard mandate. If they forced the cable companies to start using them I'm sure they can force them to continue using them.

I know there is a transition between analog TV and digital TV, but they just seem to be taking baby steps to get there instead of one giant step.

The only reason the TiVo won't work with the new D* stuff is a D* not wanting to use TiVo products anymore. TiVo could come up with a version that would work with MPEG4 instead Directv wants to use there own companies products. I personally think that any CE company should be able to make a D*, or E*, or whoever else's TV system they want. Imagine if any other utility company was like this. You don't have to worry what land based phone to buy, because they all work with every land based system in the country.

Also not everyone wants a set top box. Especially if you must pay a rental fee for every TV in the house. Then tack on the digital gateway fee. You know Cox charges my parents for the digital gateway for both cards that are in the same TiVo. And the TV commercials talk about all the fees for satellite.

Also the more I hear about OCAP the more I don't like it. Does anyone know a JAVA application that runs as fast as native code. No wonder those cable boxes are so less responsive then the TiVo box.

Also what do you mean if the FCC had the power. Of course they have the power to make the cable companies live up to the cablecard mandate. If they forced the cable companies to start using them I'm sure they can force them to continue using them.

I know there is a transition between analog TV and digital TV, but they just seem to be taking baby steps to get there instead of one giant step.

You sound like me just before I left Cable TV and went to Dish Network. I saw switched digital and OCAP and ran like hell away from Cox and the crappy obsolete DVR SA 8300HD. Great piece of hardware, crappy company implementation of its software with no bug fixes in sight.

The FCC under the current joke of an administration will do nothing to enforce anything except making sure no one can see boobs on TV for free.

You may want to consider Dish as they will lease you a free HDDVR (the best DVR out there, the VIP622) in February and the lowest prices with the most HD channels.

You sound like me just before I left Cable TV and went to Dish Network. I saw switched digital and OCAP and ran like hell away from Cox and the crappy obsolete DVR SA 8300HD. Great piece of hardware, crappy company implementation of its software with no bug fixes in sight.

The FCC under the current joke of an administration will do nothing to enforce anything except making sure no one can see boobs on TV for free.

You may want to consider Dish as they will lease you a free HDDVR (the best DVR out there, the VIP622) in February and the lowest prices with the most HD channels.

I don't have cable, but my parents do and they don't want to switch. They might get PO'd enough if Cox makes there TV's not work without a box. My dad paid more for the TV so he wouldn't have to rent a box from Cox and add yet another remote to the pile. Hopefully by then Embarq gets bought out by Verizon and we can get FIOS. :rolleyes:

I don't have cable, but my parents do and they don't want to switch. They might get PO'd enough if Cox makes there TV's not work without a box. My dad paid more for the TV so he wouldn't have to rent a box from Cox and add yet another remote to the pile. Hopefully by then Embarq gets bought out by Verizon and we can get FIOS. :rolleyes:

Right, as of now Cox and Sprint are in bed with each other. Its pretty clear to me that Embarq is really Sprint in disguise so these socialists won't be seen for what they are. Embarq needs to get the hell out of Las Vegas so we can get a real Telco like Verizon or ATT and bring real competition to socialist monopoly controlled by Embarq/Cox/Sprint/Nextel Las Vegas.

Speaking of TIVO....

Engadget is showing pictures of the Comcast TIVO DVR:


No network functionality
No advanced features

Its just a plain TiVo. The closest analog to the TiVoMoto box is a DirecTiVo box. I was eager to wait for it, but seeing how neutered it is, I'm convinced that I might as well stick with my S2 TiVo for the forseeable future.

On the plus side, I did get a TiVo plushie when I talked to the TiVo people at an event on monday night. Nothing in terms of dates, except for they're almost done with a HD picture viewer for the S3, along with flickr integration.

No network functionality
No advanced features

Its just a plain TiVo. The closest analog to the TiVoMoto box is a DirecTiVo box. I was eager to wait for it, but seeing how neutered it is, I'm convinced that I might as well stick with my S2 TiVo for the forseeable future.

On the plus side, I did get a TiVo plushie when I talked to the TiVo people at an event on monday night. Nothing in terms of dates, except for they're almost done with a HD picture viewer for the S3, along with flickr integration.

It's just like with the Directivo and the S3. They are at the mercy of another company telling them what they can do with there product. Unfortainatly TiVo's not like Apple or Microsoft that can tell these people (Directv, Comcast, CableLabs) to shove it up there ear so they have to do what there "partners" tell them to.

I wish TiVo could be more like Apple. When Apple announced the iPhone it was said that the CEO of Cingular didn't even have to see the product before he said he wanted it exclusive on his network. None of this you can't have this feature or we're going to disable this feature on our network. Apple is clearly in the drivers seat for there device.

Heh, thats the Steve Jobs RDF (reality distortion field) in effect. He has this amazing ability to bend people to his will.

This is going off on a tangent here but indulge me...

I watched both the Steve Jobs and Bill Gates keynote online (almost got to see the BG keynote in person but the line had closed already). Bill Gates is happy to get up there and tell you about what Microsoft is doing, but Steve Jobs believes so strongly in what he is doing, you want to follow him. His passion is second to none. And his ability to build a product that works and works well (thanks to Johnny Ive and the rest of the design crew) is unmatched in the industry. Microsoft keeps cranking out products designed by committee. Jobs cranks out products built on a vision. On his vision. I've forgot most of what BG had said at this point, but I can still remember the biggest quote of the Jobs keynote - "This is a revolution of the first order".

TiVo is at the whim of the industry. And this industry is very very scared of the future and the uncertanty it brings. Just look at the Boston Strangler quote from Jack Valenti during the hearings when the VCR came out. They content industry is willing to say and do anything to prevent innovation. And with the implementation of DRM and copy protection they've won. They now control what devices do and when they can do it. All in the name of "piracy" when its really about control. Jobs is only now dragging them into the 21st century (and it doesnt hurt that he is the largest individual sharholder in the Disney corporation - which owns Disney, ABC, ESPN, etc). And he is dragging them slowly.

Its funny that this comes up because I'm just starting to write an article about DRM and control for a website I contribute to.

I used Cox's "Contact Us" to try and find out more about the Multiroom DVR that was mentioned early last year in this thread.
-----------
Unfortunately, the Multi Room DVR receiver is not yet available and we
do not have any additional information to offer at this time. We are
constantly seeking ways to enhance our market-leading technology,
customer commitment and product offerings.

However, we do not have a specific date when can we offer Multi Room DVR
receiver in Southern Nevada.
--------------
Any chance someone on this thread knows more?

I used Cox's "Contact Us" to try and find out more about the Multiroom DVR that was mentioned early last year in this thread.
-----------
Unfortunately, the Multi Room DVR receiver is not yet available and we
do not have any additional information to offer at this time. We are
constantly seeking ways to enhance our market-leading technology,
customer commitment and product offerings.

However, we do not have a specific date when can we offer Multi Room DVR
receiver in Southern Nevada.
--------------
Any chance someone on this thread knows more?

Vegass told us a while back that Cox will abandon this feature because it is not compatible to their upcoming Switched Digital Video scheme. Thats when I started to part ways with Cox.

The Vip622 HD DVR from Dish Network can record 3 HD streams while viewing two other SD/HD recorded programs on a multitude of sets using a agile modulated output, also all the outputs on the Vip622 are live at the same time.

Only one DVR is needed to do all this and no other box can do what the VIP622 can.

Heh, thats the Steve Jobs RDF (reality distortion field) in effect. He has this amazing ability to bend people to his will.

This is going off on a tangent here but indulge me...

I watched both the Steve Jobs and Bill Gates keynote online (almost got to see the BG keynote in person but the line had closed already). Bill Gates is happy to get up there and tell you about what Microsoft is doing, but Steve Jobs believes so strongly in what he is doing, you want to follow him. His passion is second to none. And his ability to build a product that works and works well (thanks to Johnny Ive and the rest of the design crew) is unmatched in the industry. Microsoft keeps cranking out products designed by committee. Jobs cranks out products built on a vision. On his vision. I've forgot most of what BG had said at this point, but I can still remember the biggest quote of the Jobs keynote - "This is a revolution of the first order".

TiVo is at the whim of the industry. And this industry is very very scared of the future and the uncertanty it brings. Just look at the Boston Strangler quote from Jack Valenti during the hearings when the VCR came out. They content industry is willing to say and do anything to prevent innovation. And with the implementation of DRM and copy protection they've won. They now control what devices do and when they can do it. All in the name of "piracy" when its really about control. Jobs is only now dragging them into the 21st century (and it doesnt hurt that he is the largest individual sharholder in the Disney corporation - which owns Disney, ABC, ESPN, etc). And he is dragging them slowly.

Its funny that this comes up because I'm just starting to write an article about DRM and control for a website I contribute to.

I'm so sick Jobs and Gates making mullah off mediacore over priced over hyped crap. Vista and Ipods or anything else from these *&rds will never be in my home.
They really don't advance the technology, they keep a good control over it, break the older stuff while making us beLIEve their new stuff if better.

Vegass told us a while back that Cox will abandon this feature because it is not compatible to their upcoming Switched Digital Video scheme. Thats when I started to part ways with Cox.

The Vip622 HD DVR from Dish Network can record 3 HD streams while viewing two other SD/HD recorded programs on a multitude of sets using a agile modulated output, also all the outputs on the Vip622 are live at the same time.

Only one DVR is needed to do all this and no other box can do what the VIP622 can.

If I remember correctly isn't this the same Dish box where they included an HDMI connection that does not have audio...?? If you want to use HDMI you have to also run a digital optical (or coax) cable for audio!! Boy that is engineering excellence!

I'm so sick Jobs and Gates making mullah off mediacore over priced over hyped crap. Vista and Ipods or anything else from these *&rds will never be in my home.
They really don't advance the technology, they keep a good control over it, break the older stuff while making us beLIEve their new stuff if better.

Do you even know what your talking about? Apple created one of the first computers that were made for home use. Also what piece of technology did the ipod break? As for Microsoft we wouldn't be at this point with computers without the software Microsoft created. So what OS do you use? I would say OS X and Windows are leaps and bounds better then Linux.

If I remember correctly isn't this the same Dish box where they included an HDMI connection that does not have audio...?? If you want to use HDMI you have to also run a digital optical (or coax) cable for audio!! Boy that is engineering excellence!

You really do not know what you are talking about. The HDMI does indeed run audio on the VIP622.

The STB and the TV is only connected via HDMI.

Do you even know what your talking about? Apple created one of the first computers that were made for home use. Also what piece of technology did the ipod break? As for Microsoft we wouldn't be at this point with computers without the software Microsoft created. So what OS do you use? I would say OS X and Windows are leaps and bounds better then Linux.

Apple copied Xerox and Microsoft copied Digital Research and OS/2. Get your facts straight.

Right, with Microsoft you need a Gigahertz computer with Gigs of ram to browse the web? Right!

Really, what all great things are happening in the computer world with the Duopoly?

Gee you would think that all the STB's would be running Windoze or MacOS if they were so great!

Surgeons offices, banks all around the world use Windoze and MacOS today because they are so reliable. :D :D :D

How about running the MacOS or the eyePOD OS on the SA8300HD DVR?

Tivo?

MOTO?

DTV?

anything??????

Just make sure the device is white and glossy so people will think its cool and buy it. Make sure if it uses a human interface device like a remote, it only has one button.

I thought I'd follow up regarding my question about getting the HD channels with my cablecards. I called Cox sales, and it turns out that the HD channels are available even if all you get is the digital gateway. They forwarded me on to technical support, and it turned out my cards had not been properly provisioned at install. They added the HD channels and now I get all the in the clear stuff (the network stations) plus Discovery HD Theater, TNTHD, UHD, EPSNHD and ESPN2HD.

Everyone over at Cox did a very good job troubleshooting the issue, enough that I decided to add a digital programming tier (it was only another $3 a month to add the variety tier).

I also asked about digital simulcast of the analog channels. The tech said they were still testing and that he didn't know how the cablecards would get access to those channels. He didn't say when the announcement of the roll out would be, so I'll just wait for that and call back and ask about cablecard access for that after it happens. Hopefully it'll just be another manual reprovision on the cards.

So, if you have cablecards and aren't getting the HD channels, just call and have them check the provisioning on your cards, because you can get them for free just like folks with a rented STB.

They added the HD channels and now I get all the in the clear stuff (the network stations) plus Discovery HD Theater, TNTHD, UHD, EPSNHD and ESPN2HD.

You're still missing INHD and MHD.

You're still missing INHD and MHD.

Sorry, I do get INHD as well, but I would have to call to get something authorized (since the cc is only one way), so I just don't show that channel on the guide on my S3. As for MHD, I do get that, I just didn't realize I did. I went off the channel list on the Cox site, and it isn't up to date. I went back in and found MHD in the channel list, enabled it, and it works as well.

They added the HD channels and now I get all the in the clear stuff (the network stations) plus Discovery HD Theater, TNTHD, UHD, EPSNHD and ESPN2HD.



What about HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime in HD?

What about HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime in HD?

I don't get any of the premium channels, so I can't get their HD versions either. My assumption is that if I were to get HBO that I would also get HBO HD (that's the way it worked when I was with Time Warner).

Oh and a follow up regarding INHD. I thought that was and InDemand channel. I just checked again, and it has a regular schedule and I do get it. So to recap, I get the following HD channels from Cox via my cablecards:

700 Discovery HD Theatre
704 ESPN HD
705 ESPN2 HD
706 INHD
708 Universal HD
709 TNT HD
725 MTV HD
730 KLAS HD (CBS)
731 KLVX HD (PBS)
732 KTNV HD (ABC)
733 KVBC HD (NBC)
735 KVVU HD (FOX)

As usual, the preceding conversations have left me totally at sea. I would like nothing more than to be able to jettison my STB. But I don't want to lose the DVR capability.

1. I DO have premium service (HBO, Cinemax, Starz, Showtime). If I go the cable card route, will I be able to continue to receive those stations in HD, in addition to those named by pkScout?

2. I want to purchase an external TIVO. Will I need a second cable card (to be inserted into that machine) that will allow me to record in HD?

3. When using a cable card with your TV, does the HDMI port become an irrelevance? Is your TV connected directly to the wall outlet by RG-6 coaxial cable leading directly to the RF input of your TV?

4. Are TIVOs manufactured which use, not only a cable card, but have HDMI output as well?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
The Host device (either TV or Tivo) does all the tuning, and control.
The cablecard does the decryption and channel mapping as it is tuned and passed from the host device.

If you use the cards in the Tivo, you have to use the inputs of the TV, such as HDMI or Component inputs.
If you use the cards in the TV, you just feed the RF into the TV and it does the tuneing.

Word of potential warnings. The Tivo and current generation TV's do not support two-way communication (host device does not have a return generator) so you will not get access to digital services such as On-demand Free and PPV movies. Upcoming TV's and STB's using the same cards, will support the two way communication because they will add a return signal generator.
Also as the HD channels expand very rapidly over the next year, they may or may not be available with a one-way cable card host as cable companies are building out SDV compatible systems that require a request to allocate a stream to your device.

vegggas

`1. When using a cable card, might I expect a DECREASE in drop-outs, macroblocking and pixelization (as opposed to using an STB)?

2. My original idea was to split the signal coming from the wall outlet. One part going to the RF input of the TV. the other part going to the RF input of the TIVO. I realize that this would necessitate the use of two cable cards, but am willing to pay for that privilege. However, I am not sure that Cox would be willing to provide one user (ME) with two cable cards. I would then connect the TIVO to the TV via the HDMI output on the TIVO to the HDMI input on the TV. Is this feasible?

1. Possible, but it depends on many factors, including the tuners involved the decrease in signal associated with splitters, interference, digital audio reciever sensitivity, etc.
Check the Tivo community forums for comparisons. They have had results in both directions.

2. The Tivo needs 2 cards, and if you want descrambling on your TV directly, a third card. There is no reason Cox would not rent you as many cards as you need based on compaible devices. Yes, you can connect your Tivo via HDMI to view recorded shows. Again, check the Tivo community forums for comparisons.

vegggas

1. I DO have premium service (HBO, Cinemax, Starz, Showtime). If I go the cable card route, will I be able to continue to receive those stations in HD, in addition to those named by pkscout?
That is my understanding. If you get HBO, you also get HBO HD, even with a cable card. You just have to make sure they provision the cable cards directly.

2. I want to purchase an external TIVO. Will I need a second cable card (to be inserted into that machine) that will allow me to record in HD?
If you get a TiVo Series 3, you need two cable cards for that device, as it has two tuners. If you also want a cable card in your TV, you would need three. For each cable card you will be charged $1.99 per month rent. For each cable card after the first one you will be charged the $4.95 "additional outlet" fee (which is really just an additional decoding device fee).

3. When using a cable card with your TV, does the HDMI port become an irrelevance? Is your TV connected directly to the wall outlet by RG-6 coaxial cable leading directly to the RF input of your TV?
That is correct. If you're TV has a cable card slot, then you connect the RG6 directly to your TV, put the card in the slot, and watch everything with no STB. Not that with this configuration, you have no DVR services. You can't output the signal from the TV to a recording device (like a TiVo).

4. Are TIVOs manufactured which use, not only a cable card, but have HDMI output as well?
The TiVo Series 3 uses cable card and has an HDMI output. No other TiVo currently in production has an HDMI out (the DirecTV HR10 did, but they don't make that anymore).

Hope that helps.

Apple copied Xerox and Microsoft copied Digital Research and OS/2. Get your facts straight.

Right, with Microsoft you need a Gigahertz computer with Gigs of ram to browse the web? Right!

Really, what all great things are happening in the computer world with the Duopoly?

So which Xerox and digital Research computers were available at a reasonable price to the consumer?

You don't need a Gigahetz computer with Gigs of ram to browse the net. If that's all you want to do stick with Windows 98 and use a P3 500Mhz with 512MB of RAM and you'll be fine.

Great things. Let me think. Digital Photography for one. I can take millions of pictures if I want to and print only the ones I want. Digital Camcorders. Now I can make my own movie for a reasonable price if I wanted to. You could also create your own radio show and have an audience of tens of thousands of people if you have material people want to listen to.

I'm still a bit befuddled.

1. If I purchase a "series 3" TIVO, does that mean I can connect the RG-6 from the wall outlet, directly to the TIVO and also run an HDMI output from that device to the HDMI input on my TV?

2. Since the "series 3" TIVO has two tuners, will that mean that (as with the 8300HD), I can watch one program while recording another?

3. What's to be done to substitute for the missing "program guide"?

4. Am I correct in assuming that if I use the configuration described in #1, I will need only the two cable cards that go into the TIVO and will NOT need an additional cable card for my TV? If this is true then I will NOT have to split the signal coming from the wall.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. It must be downloaded from Tivo either through an internet connection or phone line.
4. Yes. As long as you are using the TV as a monitor and not using it's internal tuner.

vegggas

So which Xerox and digital Research computers were available at a reasonable price to the consumer?

You don't need a Gigahetz computer with Gigs of ram to browse the net. If that's all you want to do stick with Windows 98 and use a P3 500Mhz with 512MB of RAM and you'll be fine.

Great things. Let me think. Digital Photography for one. I can take millions of pictures if I want to and print only the ones I want. Digital Camcorders. Now I can make my own movie for a reasonable price if I wanted to. You could also create your own radio show and have an audience of tens of thousands of people if you have material people want to listen to.

You must be a newb to computers, Digital Research did not make computers.

Right, all that stuff could be done on the computer you mentioned, with or without windows. Win 98 on the comp you mentioned is just as fast a a modern dual core anything with 1 gig of ram with Vista.

I'm still a bit befuddled.

1. If I purchase a "series 3" TIVO, does that mean I can connect the RG-6 from the wall outlet, directly to the TIVO and also run an HDMI output from that device to the HDMI input on my TV?

2. Since the "series 3" TIVO has two tuners, will that mean that (as with the 8300HD), I can watch one program while recording another?

3. What's to be done to substitute for the missing "program guide"?

4. Am I correct in assuming that if I use the configuration described in #1, I will need only the two cable cards that go into the TIVO and will NOT need an additional cable card for my TV? If this is true then I will NOT have to split the signal coming from the wall.

With #4, if you split the cable for your TV, you'll be able to watch a program while recording 2 others.

With #4, if you split the cable for your TV, you'll be able to watch a program while recording 2 others.

But does that mean I will need a third cable card for my TV?

Secondly...If for example I tune to CBS-HD on Cox, I go to channel 730. Will I do the same thing on the TIVO, or will I go to something like 8.1?

And now after all of this (for which I thank you), does any forumite have a TIVO Series 3, and how does it perform compared to the 8300HD or similar STB?

This quote from 'foxeng', an engineer with Fox, about DirecTV's plan on adding LOTS of HD content this year:

I am surprised that no one has made a point to state an obvious reason for the number of HD channels in the D* announcement is that no one and I mean NO ONE, cable or sat has had the capacity for 70 HD channels. If a broadcaster has no outlet for their programming, why spend the money and broadcast to no one? Until someone, D*, E*, cable or FIOS had the bandwidth available, no content provider in their right mind would launch a channel that only ET could watch.

Truth is cable and E* knew it was coming because D* announced it two years ago and I know that these new HD channels have been known to the cable industry even if they had not been publicly announced and cable still doesn't have the bandwidth to accommodate 70 HD channels. Even cables switched scheme still is not ready for prime time and is available on a handful of systems. Think what you want, but only D* has the bandwidth currently and the industry knows it, content providers and MSOs alike. If not the content providers like NBCU, Turner, FOX, etc would not be creating HD channels to fill the D* bandwidth. If they thought it was pie in the sky, they would not be publicly on board but denying it at a rapid rate and calling D* all kinds of nasty names.
Vegggas,

He mentions that only the switched systems on cable might have the capacity for all of the new HD channels. From reading your prior postings, I know that Cox in Las Vegas is moving towards SDV. Can I assume that Cox will probably be adding many of these same HD channels in 2007? Maybe all of them? I know it's all speculation, but I love to hear your "informed predictions". ;)

And now after all of this (for which I thank you), does any forumite have a TIVO Series 3, and how does it perform compared to the 8300HD or similar STB?

If the S3 Tivo is rated 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 the SA 8300 HD box is around a 3.

But does that mean I will need a third cable card for my TV?
Yes, if you split the cable you would need a third cable card for your TV.

Secondly...If for example I tune to CBS-HD on Cox, I go to channel 730. Will I do the same thing on the TIVO, or will I go to something like 8.1?
You tune to 730 just like you do on the 8300.

And now after all of this (for which I thank you), does any forumite have a TIVO Series 3, and how does it perform compared to the 8300HD or similar STB?
I have never used the 8300HD before, so I have no point of comparison. I believe the S3 has a larger hard drive and has other features like wishlists (record anything with a particular title or actor) as well as the network features (TiVocast, Live 360, and soon access to Rhapsody if you have a Rhapsody subscription).

This is kind of veering off topic for this thread so, if you haven't already, you should check out the TiVo Community Forum (http://www.tivocommunity.com) for any other questions you have about TiVo.

FWIW, SDV wont help in terms of bandwidth if the channel is a frequently watched channel. Cox could have 100 obscure HD channels and it would work fine (G4, The Ocho, etc). But you'll never see ESPN HD on SDV simply because its likely someone out of ~1000 homes (is that number even accurate? vegggas?) will be watching it (especially as HD penetration increases). Why bother putting it on SDV if its always going to be broadcasting?

Industry trade publications indicate that TWC, Comcast and Cox are moving toward SDV digital networks for increased capacity. Once an all data network is achieved, the capacity for HD channels is easily in the hundreds.
Take, for example, the previous number of 1000 users. Any duplicate viewers will be watching the same feed, so if all of them are watching ESPNHD, network traffic is actually low. Now imagine if there were actually 100 HD channels at full current 1920x1080 resolution and at full mpeg2 data rates of 19.2Mbps. That would only take 1.9Gbps of data to deliver 100 unique HD channels to all the customers on a node or anywhere on a data network for that manner. If they have to use a hybrid network with active QAM's, that would only take take 50 QAM's (at 2HD's/ QAM) to distribute to users. Consider SD at 10SD's/QAM and you could put 300 channels on 30 QAMS and still have 50 QAM's left over for mixed VOD, dedicated analog or whatever you needed. If the network fiber rings are in the 10Gbps or 100Gbps range the possibillities of HD capacities are effectively endless.

It is not known exactly what each cable company is doing, but the cable industry has not been in the habit of making announcements years in advance. D* is making HD announcements with it's additional capacity still sitting on the ground and waiting for a future sat launch date. They expect to be able to handle the capacity by the end of the year, but anything can happen. There is still the waiting for the channels to actually become HD too. I actually applaud D* for making the announcement to agree to carry all available HD channels. This gives incentives to the stations to make the move to HD faster knowing that they will be picked up and be able to make money of their new infrastructure.
Cox Las vegas has made no public mention of SDV, although trade articles do make mention of the fact that most systems are upgrading to an infrastructure that is SDV. Upgrades can take years to see the full potential and improvements are seen in small steps. TWC is on the right path, and has lead the way in trials with SDV actually in use in homes. TWC is using a hybrid approach now, but will expand as their networks are utilized. Now, with all the IP STB's at CES, SDV direct to the home can even bypass the QAM limitations and have the potential for 1000's of HD channels.

Hmmm. Maybe I should start a cable company? Nah, I'll probably go broke trying to offer too much HD like Voom did. :o If they starting out now... Hmmm...
Oh yea, I don't happen to have a few billion dollars laying around for capitol either :(

vegggas

Yea, I still think the question is that 1000 homes number.

Maybe I subscribe to the long tail theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail) a little too strongly, but I'm inclined to believe that given sufficently large nodes the benefits of SDV diminish because not all of them will be watching one channel. 20% are watching ESPN, 10% ESPN 2, 7% the weather channel, whatever. But all the remaining stations are around 1% and someone on the node is typically watching them. You're back in the same situation we are now, broadcasting every channel. The node has to be sufficiently small where the number of unique channels viewed at any one time is significantly smaller than the number of channels offered. There the bandwidth benefits are huge. You only broadcast what people want to view and everything else is discarded.

There are once again seven local stations broadcasting in HD. KVMY 21 is once again passing MyNetworkTV HD.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9537/kvmy11607vh5.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1751/mntvhc1.th.png (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mntvhc1.png)

Of course, Simon wouldn't send any of the MNTV "actors" to Hollywood...

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/742/foxsimonrc9.th.png (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foxsimonrc9.png)

Doormat,
Consider this for a moment. Don't think of them as channels, think of them as data streams as they are in a purely digital SDV network. Currently 19Mbps for HD and 4Mbps for those streams (those datarates are dropping as compression techniques get better [mpeg4]).
If a node is able to pass 10Gbps of data, at what point will the unique streams hit the datarate limits? How many unique streams can it pass, compared to how many unique streams there actually are to view?

vegggas

There are once again seven local stations broadcasting in HD. KVMY 21 is once again passing MyNetworkTV HD.
If a station broadcasts HD and no one is around to watch it, is it really HD? :D

vegggas

If a station broadcasts HD and no one is around to watch it, is it really HD? :D

vegggas

Apparantly they've realized their business plan of Anglo-ized telenovelas isn't going anywhere fast so they're going to roll the dice on mixed martial arts bringing in the male 18-34 crowd. If they actually stick to their "first all HD network" mantra and produce the fights in HD it could be a nice diversion.

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003533295

If a station broadcasts HD and no one is around to watch it, is it really HD? :D

vegggas

Since he posted screenshots he must be watching so it really is HD.

Also do you happen to know how many nodes Cox has in the valley? I happen to agree with doormat and your statement above about the channels. If no one out of 1000 or 10000 (who knows how big these nodes are) is watching the channel why is it there to begin with. Now when the all digital cable system comes to be there will be plenty of room for HD. I think with HD and HD DVR's I think we can have a huge reduction of the number of channels. Who needs 8 HBO's that repeat the same shows over and over again.

I have no way of knowing how many nodes Cox has in the valley.
As I understand it, every new neighborhood for the last several years has it's own local node, and older neighborhoods were being split as fiber is laid. Eventually, it's a complete fiber network except for the last link to the home from the node.
For digital networks and SDV, you guys are not seeing the big picture. It doesn't matter how many people are on a node and how many channels are being viewed. There is only a finite number of channels to be viewed, and if all of them are being viewed, it won't be close to exceeding the bandwidth available.
How many webpages are there in the world? Any one, or several thousand users can view webpages by pulling down the webpage as needed in real time. All the webpages are not being pushed to your modem, but they are available to be viewed, if you request that page. SDV is similar in that the content is not taking up bandwidth until it's requested. Right now and in the forseeable future, bandwidth would exceed content available. It has to become a pull technology instead of a push technology to overcome restraints.

vegggas

So is what you are saying is there is enough bandwidth in the fiber for all the channels, but not in the coax that goes from the street to my house. Also how slow is channel changes if every time you change the channel the cable box has to send a stream upstream to start the flow of that channel downstream.

Again, forget about channels for a moment.
The bandwidth is there regardless of the carrier. It's the format that it's delivered in that makes the difference. The current and past method has been the standard NTSC method of 6Mhz "Channels" that are pushed to every home. If everything is converted to data and pulled as needed, efficiency is dramatically improved. The backbone network is a much larger faster network than the node to home network, so it can handle many times more data than content. Again, if I refer to the internet webpages as a comparison. The world wide web could be viewed as the "Backbone" where many more webpages are stored than what could be pushed or stored locally on your PC. Having access to that backbone allows for access of all content and webpages as you request them.
For speed, the streams are about as fast as current digital tuning. Consider how long it takes to lock onto a digital stream from OTA or from sat or cable. It has to lock onto the carrier and extract the data within that carrier. In an all digital SDV model, there is no carrier, just the streams.

vegggas

In the SDV scheme, what about the analog TV's? Does each node generate a full channel lineup in analog? Doesn't the retransmission of the analog channels still use up a lot of bandwidth?

Talk about SDV and limited bandwith all you want, its really just another way for them to rent you a damn box.

Thats the business model.

Again, forget about channels for a moment.
The bandwidth is there regardless of the carrier. It's the format that it's delivered in that makes the difference. The current and past method has been the standard NTSC method of 6Mhz "Channels" that are pushed to every home. If everything is converted to data and pulled as needed, efficiency is dramatically improved. The backbone network is a much larger faster network than the node to home network, so it can handle many times more data than content. Again, if I refer to the internet webpages as a comparison. The world wide web could be viewed as the "Backbone" where many more webpages are stored than what could be pushed or stored locally on your PC. Having access to that backbone allows for access of all content and webpages as you request them.
For speed, the streams are about as fast as current digital tuning. Consider how long it takes to lock onto a digital stream from OTA or from sat or cable. It has to lock onto the carrier and extract the data within that carrier. In an all digital SDV model, there is no carrier, just the streams.

vegggas


Just give each a 100M internet connection, flock the cable TV setup and let us watch what we really want. :D

With SDV we should get measured rate service or al la carte pricing.

Again, forget about channels for a moment.
The bandwidth is there regardless of the carrier. It's the format that it's delivered in that makes the difference. The current and past method has been the standard NTSC method of 6Mhz "Channels" that are pushed to every home. If everything is converted to data and pulled as needed, efficiency is dramatically improved. The backbone network is a much larger faster network than the node to home network, so it can handle many times more data than content. Again, if I refer to the internet webpages as a comparison. The world wide web could be viewed as the "Backbone" where many more webpages are stored than what could be pushed or stored locally on your PC. Having access to that backbone allows for access of all content and webpages as you request them.
For speed, the streams are about as fast as current digital tuning. Consider how long it takes to lock onto a digital stream from OTA or from sat or cable. It has to lock onto the carrier and extract the data within that carrier. In an all digital SDV model, there is no carrier, just the streams.

vegggas

Yeah, its amazing how fast the cursor moves with VOD.

In the SDV scheme, what about the analog TV's? Does each node generate a full channel lineup in analog? Doesn't the retransmission of the analog channels still use up a lot of bandwidth?
It could, but at a maximum of 4Mbps (4x79) would only use 316Mbps if converted at the node and fed to all users. Reconfigure that to better encoders at 2mbps and down to 50 channels and you are only using 100Mbps.

vegggas

Sigh... where are my tweezers, I've got something stuck in my paw ;)
Talk about SDV and limited bandwith all you want, its really just another way for them to rent you a damn box.

Thats the business model. Not according to all the Consumer devices I saw at CES. SA and MOTO were there, but so were the TV, DVR, and other STB makers touting consumer devices. The Moxi stuff looked much better than Tivo, IMHO.


Just give each a 100M internet connection, flock the cable TV setup and let us watch what we really want.

With SDV we should get measured rate service or al la carte pricing. You can buy a 100M internet connection right now, actually for quite a while now.
It could be done in an all digital model, just like the web is now. Just subscribe individually to the networks that you want. Go directly to CBS and pay their per viewing fees to watch their programs, then head over to iMovie for a movie, then iTunes for some music, all with your new phone or consumer device that allows more choices. If you only watch 10 programs a month, then you will only spend $20 at the $1.99 per viewing.


Yeah, its amazing how fast the cursor moves with VOD.VOD is not SDV. VOD is mpeg generated content and screens generated in real time for for your viewing session. SDV is linking onto already existing streams off a backbone. Tuning time is about the same as current to last genration digital tuners for OTA.

vegggas

Not according to all the Consumer devices I saw at CES.

Just remember that not everything you see at CES will ever materialize into an actual product you can buy at a store. I saw a SA HD TiVo box back in the 2002-2003 time range. Look how long it took before the HD DirecTivo and the S3 came out.

Will the Moxi box be available for purchase?

Will the Moxi box be available for purchase?
I feel more confident about moxi than Tivo just because they are already established in the cable business in both hardware and software platforms in over 400,000 homes. I don't know how many features are going to make it to consumer levels, but the offering and usability looked quite good. Although they were prototypes, they were based on existing platforms and next generaton STB's. They actually have three DVR and IPG patents, including the dual axis interface.
LAS VEGAS, Nev. — January 8, 2007 — Digeo, Inc. today announced it will begin selling new versions of the Emmy® Award-winning Moxi™ digital media recorder directly to consumers in 2007. The consumer offerings, which are the first of several new Moxi-based products Digeo expects to ship in 2007, are part of a comprehensive new strategic direction at the company. The new corporate strategy seeks to improve the high-definition television (HDTV) experience by providing people with a compelling alternative in digital media recording products. Digeo will also offer to license the Moxi technology to a broad range of consumer electronics manufacturers to include in next-generation media centers, TVs and other devices. <snip>
At CES, Digeo will preview two prototypes of planned products for consumers. Both versions will feature the Emmy Award-winning Moxi interface, an integrated CD/DVD player, and features that allow users to watch, record and play high-definition programming, stream content from their PCs and support web scheduling. One prototype, the Moxi Multi-room HD DMR, will provide multi-room HD recording and playback with an integrated multi-stream CableCard (M-Card). A second prototype, the Moxi Home Cinema Edition HD DMR, is a Linux-based system leveraging the recently announced AMD LIVE!™ Home Cinema reference design that includes advanced audio features and is the ultimate device for home theatre enthusiasts. The Moxi retail product offerings are planned to be available in the second half of 2007.

vegggas

edit - I don't like to edit my posts, but the above statement comparing to Tivo is just an opinion. Moxi is already in homes, with several providers, but they haven't got the brand name and partnerships as Tivo has. They hope going direct to consumers, they can offer better features and quality.
v

For digital networks and SDV, you guys are not seeing the big picture. It doesn't matter how many people are on a node and how many channels are being viewed. There is only a finite number of channels to be viewed, and if all of them are being viewed, it won't be close to exceeding the bandwidth available.

Thats the premise I wasnt getting.

I had assumed that SDV was implemented so they could overbook their network. That is to say, have more channels available than bandwidth available. Kinda like how airlines book flights. Customers would hate to see "cant tune channel because node is full" message.

Though I cant see what use slimming down bandwidth for TV is useful for. I'd still assume that everything else on the physical layer of the network still tunes in 6MHz chunks (cable modems, voice, etc), with fixed amounts of bandwidth per channel.

Thats the premise I wasnt getting.

I had assumed that SDV was implemented so they could overbook their network. That is to say, have more channels available than bandwidth available. Kinda like how airlines book flights. Customers would hate to see "cant tune channel because node is full" message.

Though I cant see what use slimming down bandwidth for TV is useful for. I'd still assume that everything else on the physical layer of the network still tunes in 6MHz chunks (cable modems, voice, etc), with fixed amounts of bandwidth per channel.

A couple reasons why they want to slim it down. They want more room for things like cable modems and digital telephones. I was listening to a podcast yesterday and they had this guy from Sweden on who said he had a 100Mbs connection to the internet and paid $10/month for it. :eek:

I feel more confident about moxi than Tivo just because they are already established in the cable business in both hardware and software platforms in over 400,000 homes. I don't know how many features are going to make it to consumer levels, but the offering and usability looked quite good. Although they were prototypes, they were based on existing platforms and next generaton STB's. They actually have three DVR and IPG patents, including the dual axis interface.


v

Well thats all sounds good. A MR DVR from Moto sold retail sounds good for the Cable industry. But will Tivo sue them?

Only if they use TiVo's patents without an agreement.

:( :( :(

KLAS-HD has just started stretching all SD content. The Colt's game looked great. But when the station ran local commercials and promos, it was a horrible stretched image. Later on, when they ran 48-Hours after the news on Sunday evening...it was shown in stetch-o-vision.

I hope this is just temporary.

:( :( :(

:( :( :(

KLAS-HD has just started stretching all SD content. The Colt's game looked great. But when the station ran local commercials and promos, it was a horrible stretched image. Later on, when they ran 48-Hours after the news on Sunday evening...it was shown in stetch-o-vision.

I hope this is just temporary.

:( :( :(

It has to be some sort of glitch. KLAS is too smart and too sensitive to public outcry to make "stretch-o-vision" a permanent part of its signal. Somebody may lose their job over this one.

For those (like me) that LOVE baseball, be advised that NO cable companies (including Cox) or Dish Network, will carry the MLB-Extra Innings package anymore. It has now become an exclusive of DirectTV. Here's the link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/sports/baseball/20base.html?em&ex=1169614800&en=5f56e2b7e4360e06&ei=5087%0A

For those (like me) that LOVE baseball, be advised that NO cable companies (including Cox) or Dish Network, will carry the MLB-Extra Innings package anymore. It has now become an exclusive of DirectTV. Here's the link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/sports/baseball/20base.html?em&ex=1169614800&en=5f56e2b7e4360e06&ei=5087%0A

Good riddens.

Good riddens.

Sorry, but there is no such word as "riddens".

If you mean "riddance", why not say that?

I guess you don't like baseball.

SDV sounds so much like "IP Multicast", where you subscribe to existing IP streams to get "broadcast" content. IP Multicast is how folks were trying to get Video (and Radio) over the Internet without sucking up all the available bandwidth as is often the case with normal IP unicast.

Unless a local node can't handle all channels being broadcast at the same time, I don't see any advantage to SDV just yet. Though, it does make loads of sense (to me anyway), if the CableCo's intention is to increase the amount of concurrent EOD capacity on a per node basis.

Personally, EOD is one of the best features I get via Cox. Just hope EOD HD is coming soon, and if SDV is the answer to make this happen then that's cool.

I would just be concerned with the "two-way" communications on the cable plant. With tons of "different" MFG's potentially creating cable transmitters, I hoping bad equipment doesn't become a major headache for the masses on any given node.

It worked for cable modems. At first, there were limitations as the standards were worked out, now they all transmit back in the same way.

IP multicast and unicast is a close comparison and it will eventually be the norm as IP boxes are deployed and all video will be in the data domain. The backbone service will provide all the available content as data. For now, there is a transitional phase where the video converted to data is sent to an available QAM modulators as they are requested. The requesting device either activates a new stream and locks onto the new audio and video pids, or gets sent information on already existing pids.

The big advantage of an SDV only channel is that a non-watched channel will not generate bandwidth overhead that limits choices.

vegggas

Sorry, but there is no such word as "riddens".

If you mean "riddance", why not say that?

I guess you don't like baseball.

I like baseball. I play it all the time. Outside that is.

I like to play sports, not watch it.

Whats this about Cox providing video on cell phones? I just saw a commercial for it on TV. Some "generation Cox" BS....

Whats this about Cox providing video on cell phones? I just saw a commercial for it on TV. Some "generation Cox" BS....
Your video, your content, your life, anywhere at anytime and never tied down - generation Cox coming soon...

vegggas

I like baseball. I play it all the time. Outside that is.

I like to play sports, not watch it.

Fine, but how do you do that at age 71, after two open heart surgeries and a leg amputation?

Your video, your content, your life, anywhere at anytime and never tied down - generation Cox coming soon...

vegggas

Does anyone WANT to watch TV on their cell phone? I know I wouldn't want to watch anything on a screen that is smaller then the iPod. Now if they made a way to add something to the To Do List or equivalent of your DVR that would be cool.

Does anyone WANT to watch TV on their cell phone? I know I wouldn't want to watch anything on a screen that is smaller then the iPod. Now if they made a way to add something to the To Do List or equivalent of your DVR that would be cool.
Most phone screens are larger than ipods nowadays but that isn't the whole basis of generation cox. The blurb I heard about was more about being able to stay connected and using your combinations of services in any way on any device. Find it, record it, store it, share it, move it, play it, home phone, cell phone, internet, TV, all merged and interactive. Maybe a home media center, not constrained to your home? I don't know what the full implementation is going to be, but it's coming.
At CES, I saw the real use of phones to access your DVR from anywhere in real time, to set or cancel a recording, playback, or just to watch live TV. Last year, it was more of an upcoming service, this year it was already deployed in some markets and actually in use as a first generaton product.

vegggas

I disagree about most phone screens being bigger then iPod screens. I also doubt they will let me move or share content. Some in the RIAA don't even want the Zune to be able to share a song for three days or three plays. I highly doubt HBO is going to let my parents share the Sopranos with me.

Hey thunder, I already went your route about the cell phones. Its no use.

Its the Cox (literally) Generation ;)

Fine, but how do you do that at age 71, after two open heart surgeries and a leg amputation?

Nerf Hoop on the bedroom door??

Nerf Hoop on the bedroom door??

YOU are the classic example of a moron.

Now back to the reguraraly scheduled program.......


Anyone know what happened to the Tube?

Now back to the reguraraly scheduled program.......


Anyone know what happened to the Tube?

Sinclair dropped them for breach of contract.

YOU are the classic example of a moron.

Chill

I have a Sony 34" crt HDTV connected to the 8300HD DVR converter with an HDMI cable. When the converter and tv are turned off, I notice my tv screen has a flourecent glow when the room is completely dark. Before i got the converter box, I had basic cable and watched HDTV using the tv's internal tuner and didn't have this problem.
Can someone explain what causes this?

I have a Sony 34" crt HDTV connected to the 8300HD DVR converter with an HDMI cable. When the converter and tv are turned off, I notice my tv screen has a flourecent glow when the room is completely dark. Before i got the converter box, I had basic cable and watched HDTV using the tv's internal tuner and didn't have this problem.
Can someone explain what causes this?

Cox cable boxes put out Gamma rays through the HDMI ports. If you wait, the radiation will seep into your room and the glow will go away. :D

I have a Sony 34" crt HDTV connected to the 8300HD DVR converter with an HDMI cable. When the converter and tv are turned off, I notice my tv screen has a flourecent glow when the room is completely dark. Before i got the converter box, I had basic cable and watched HDTV using the tv's internal tuner and didn't have this problem.
Can someone explain what causes this?
TV 101 - A Primer.
That's called "Phosphor Glow" and is common to CRT's. A CRT uses an electron beam of high intensity light to "paint" every line of a picture. It starts at the top left to right and then paints every odd number line, then starts back at the top and fills in all the even lines. The phosphor in the tube continues to glow so that you continue to see the entire field image after the individual line is painted. Depending on the age of your set, the intensity of the images and where you have the brightness, contrast and other variables set, the tube may glow for an extended period of time after the TV turns off.
It has nothing to do with what is being connected, or how it is connected, and is the very nature of a Tube set since the 1940's. As a young lad (several decades ago), I used to wave my hand in front of the tube after it was turned off and watch the phosphor voltage "highlight" my fingertips (like those plasma toys) as I touched the screen.

vegggas

Speaking of STB's.
I heard a rumor that the local cable DVR's and HD STB's will drop down in price very soon. The rumor says that all HD STB's and DVR's will be the same price as current standard STB's. This would be a huge savings for those with multiple HD STB's (ME! :eek: )
No confirmation yet, so I will have to share some frosty beverages tonight and get some more info.

vegggas

If you don't mind me asking how much is your cable bill and do you think it's worth it? I know with Directv raising it's prices and Cox raising its prices (at least for cable modem service) a couple months ago how far are they going to go up before people say enough it's not worth it anymore.

Also do you think with the advent of DVR's and HD the number of channels will actually go down instead of up?

Speaking of STB's.
I heard a rumor that the local cable DVR's and HD STB's will drop down in price very soon. The rumor says that all HD STB's and DVR's will be the same price as current standard STB's. This would be a huge savings for those with multiple HD STB's (ME! :eek: )
No confirmation yet, so I will have to share some frosty beverages tonight and get some more info.

vegggas

Starting Feb 1 the Vip 622 will be a free lease for new subs and some existing subs with Dish network. This box is a dual tuner DVR which can share its progs with other sets. Also the ethernet ports will soon be active to get real on demand movies or events. External usb storage is coming soon too.

Great News for Dish Subs

Now all my OTA locals have guide data including the sub-channels.

Also from: satteliteguys.us (http://satelliteguys.us) :

Well yesterday was a very interesting day here at SatelliteGuys and for customers of Dish Network.

Yesterday Dish Network made a MAJOR change to its HD broadcasts on 6 of its HD Channels, and while we openly discussed those changes in our uplink report, we knew not many folks read the uplink reports after they are initially published, so in knowing this we took a poll.

The questions were as follows:

1) Hows the Picture Quality?
2) Does it look better, worse or the same since yesterday (or the last time you watched this channel if it was before yesterday)

The channels which changed were
9425 - ESPN2 HD
9426 - NFL HD
9429 - National Geographic HD
9435 - StarzHD
9461 - HGTV HD
9462 - Food HD

The overwhelming majority reported that the HD quality looked good, in fact most pointed out that the picture looked a little better then it did before!

This was surprising to hear especially from some of our "HD Lite" diehards.

So what did Dish change? What was the secret? Well here is the answer.

Yesterday Dish Network combined all 6 channels onto one transponder using new MPEG4 encoders.

Yes that is correct 6 HD Channels on one transponder! Before yesterday there was only two or 3 HD channels per transponder.

These encoders must be good, real good especially with folks reporting the picture looks better because the bandwidth for each channel was cut by more than HALF!

The MPEG4 channels were running at 12mb/s to 14 mb/s on Tuesday, and yesterday they are running from 5mb/s to 7mb/s! Quite a difference!

It should also be noted that the screen resolutions for all 6 channels have no changed in this upgrade.

Here are the resolutions:

9425 - ESPN2 1280 x 720
9426 - NFL 1440 x 1080
9429 - National Geographic HD 1280 x 720
9435 - StarzHD 1440 x 1080
9461 - HGTV HD Got - 1440 x 1080
9462 - FoodHD - 1440 x 1080

Finally we are seeing what true MPEG4 can do! But whats this mean for us the consumer? More HD Channels! I am hearing some buzz that Dish has some big HD plans coming down the road, they claim to be the HD leader and intended to stay that way!

A bit hats off to all the engineers and folks at the uplink to reach this milestone. We can only think that as MPEG4 technology advances things can only get better!

I've seen what true mpeg4 can do...at 30 Mbps. It's called Blu-ray.

Cable and OTA are HD-lite.

Satellite is DVD-plus.

Great News for Dish Subs

Now all my OTA locals have guide data including the sub-channels.



Not me. I still get "Digital service" for my guide data on locals.

Not me. I still get "Digital service" for my guide data on locals.

Do you sub to locals also? If you do a check switch, the guide will refresh minutes later.

I've seen what true mpeg4 can do...at 30 Mbps. It's called Blu-ray.

Cable and OTA are HD-lite.

Satellite is DVD-plus.

According to you, anything but HD-DVD and Blue Ray is HD-lite.

I hope you live long in your own little world with the other HD-Lightweights :eek:

Do you sub to locals also? If you do a check switch, the guide will refresh minutes later.

Didn't work. Not a big deal. I still have Cox for local channels and HD so I really don't care. The local channels were included free with the deal I got through E*. I don't even watch them on dish. Just curious as to why everyone else seems to be getting guide data on locals via E* but not me.

Didn't work. Not a big deal. I still have Cox for local channels and HD so I really don't care. The local channels were included free with the deal I got through E*. I don't even watch them on dish. Just curious as to why everyone else seems to be getting guide data on locals via E* but not me.

Which box are you using? I also point at 61.5 in addition to 110/119, no 129.

Does anyone know if Cox blacks out the home Rebel games on the mnt? My grandpa called me and told me that when the game came on the screen went black.

In the last week I have noticed that all digital channels and all the non-OTA HD channels have been set by Cox to "Copy Never" (i.e. they have a CCI of 0x03 if you look at the Cable Card diagnostics). This of course means that my S3 TiVo is not letting me watch recordings from these channels after 90 minutes have past. They weren't set this way a week ago, I know because I recorded something of BBCA two weeks ago that I didn't watch until today. Now if I record off BBCA (or any digital channel) I am immediately told the recording will be deleted in 90 minutes because the copyright holder has set that limit.

Are folks using the Cox DVR seeing this, or does the Cox DVR ignore the CCI flag? I'm hoping this is a mistake on Cox's part and not something intentional designed to degrade the performance of a competing DVR. I suppose I'll call Cox in the morning, but I can only imagine how long it's going to take to convince someone that this is a setting at the head end and not something wrong with the S3.

Does anyone know if Cox blacks out the home Rebel games on the mnt? My grandpa called me and told me that when the game came on the screen went black.

That's a horrible policy if that's the case, but in any event UNLV won 76-72 in OT.

Which box are you using? I also point at 61.5 in addition to 110/119, no 129.

Vip622

Does anyone know if Cox blacks out the home Rebel games on the mnt? My grandpa called me and told me that when the game came on the screen went black.

It was not blacked out...good game...

In the last week I have noticed that all digital channels and all the non-OTA HD channels have been set by Cox to "Copy Never" (i.e. they have a CCI of 0x03 if you look at the Cable Card diagnostics). This of course means that my S3 TiVo is not letting me watch recordings from these channels after 90 minutes have past. They weren't set this way a week ago, I know because I recorded something of BBCA two weeks ago that I didn't watch until today. Now if I record off BBCA (or any digital channel) I am immediately told the recording will be deleted in 90 minutes because the copyright holder has set that limit.

I called Cox this morning. They initially wanted to send a technician out to look at the issue, and I had to be respectful but forceful in conveying that the issue was not at my end. The phone tech finally volunteered to reset my cards, and that forced the CCI byte back to 0x00 (copy freely) for every channel. They couldn't say how it would have mysteriously gotten set to 0x03 (copy never), but at least now I know to check this periodically to make sure it doesn't change again and just call.

The largest frustration was the 10 minutes I spent caught in their phone tree. I finally just lied and told the automated system I had no picture just to get past the thing. Seems like to me if resetting the cablecards fixes so many issues that they should allow me to do that either via the automated system or the web. I guess if they did that they couldn't spread FUD about cablecard and claim a technician has to come out for any problem.

Sorry if this is redundant (with 153 pages of posts it's bound to be) but I have to get this off my chest before I explode.

Cox and their stinking SA8300 DVR are driving me back to satellite!! Their equipment is lousy, their tech support is either stupid or liars, and no one there can provide a straight answer.

I moved here from DC (where I was a happy HD DTV customer) in July. The house we bought here in Green Valley was wired for cable but not set up well for satellite when you need two lines per box (the main TV location is on an interior wall with no easy way to run a second line inside a wall). So I decided to try Cox. First, the box was not delivered as promised so I had to wait in line for 90 minutes to pick one up. My older DLP TV has a DVI connection so I asked for a similar STB. Would not work. Cox had no clue why, so I chose to go with the newer 8300 HDMI box (waiting in line again) and use the component connections (I know I can get an HDMI-DVI connector but haven't pulled the trigger on that yet). First, I will say that the pictures did seem clearer than I had before on DTV, especially the channels in SD. That joy died quickly...

First issue...son ordered a PPV UFC event and we discovered that I could not set the DVR to record it...kept saying I had to pay for it first which I already had. Called cox and they seemed to have no clue other than to say it must because of the PPV nature. Anyway, they clued me into the trick on how to manually record (buried under preferences???...what's up with that?) and got it to record.

Weeks later, I ordered the Full Court college basketball package and here's where things got really weird. I tried to set the DVR for a game, and again the guide told me to buy it first. Called cox, confirmed that I had it, and they tried to tell me it was because it was a PPV event. I tried to explain that for the previous 2 years I had no issues recording it with DTV, but that had no effect on their argument. So I asked them to tell me how to record it manually...I had forgotten from the UFC event and couldn't find it. They insisted it wasn't possible even though it was one of their techs who told me about it the first time!!! Asked for a supervisor...not a chance, their policy is leave your number and they'll call back within 24 hours. Too late, I was heading for the airport and needed an answer NOW! (they did call back...next morning after the event was over).

I called back and got a second tech. He gave same answers, but when I pushed for instructions for manual recording, he kept asking why, ("like use the guide dude"). I guess the previous 15 minutes of explaining why Cox/8300 would not let me record from the guide ("buy it first") must not have registered. FINALLY, after literally 2 hours of phone tree and stupid tech h@## he finally told me what I wanted all long. It worked.

Next few games was odd; some I had to set manually, some would record from the guide. No difference between the games. Calls to cox revealed yet more folks with no clue how the system works. Finally lived with it. Until the fateful day when I discovered that I could no longer record manually...the channels that the PPV games came on were no longer available to record on the manual record options page (601-605). Again I called and Cox insisted that no changes had been made to that part of the system. Liars or stupid, because I used to be able to do it and now I can't...

Now when I travel, I have to leave notes (and call to remind them) for folks to turn on the game and push record...(so tell me if I can record it real time, why can't I set it up in advance???)

Next Saturday DTV is coming out to install a dish. Grrr...

Roscoe, tech service sucks everywhere. Most "techs" are just low waged idiots. All the companies hire them.

A HDMI-DVI connector can be had for a good price at monoprice.com.

The HD DVR from DTV is no better and is full of bugs and anomalies.

THe VIP 622 from Dish is probably the closest to being perfect and their Dish Pro technology allows for just one cable to a dual tuner STB. Heck, even that one cable can have a backfeed to the other TV sets in the home with the use of UHF remote which comes free for your other sets.

Check Dish out, if they are not your cup of tea, stick with Cox and talk to a supervisor or manager. By all means stay away from DTV until Malone takes charge and reverses the mess that Murd-doc made of a good company.

Roscoe, tech service sucks everywhere. Most "techs" are just low waged idiots. All the companies hire them.

A HDMI-DVI connector can be had for a good price at monoprice.com.

The HD DVR from DTV is no better and is full of bugs and anomalies.

THe VIP 622 from Dish is probably the closest to being perfect and their Dish Pro technology allows for just one cable to a dual tuner STB. Heck, even that one cable can have a backfeed to the other TV sets in the home with the use of UHF remote which comes free for your other sets.

Check Dish out, if they are not your cup of tea, stick with Cox and talk to a supervisor or manager. By all means stay away from DTV until Malone takes charge and reverses the mess that Murd-doc made of a good company.


Before you wax poetic on the praises of the 622...... you might also mention that it does not pass Dolby Digital 5.1 over HDMI...... Dish went with "HDMI Light" on the 622 and it does not pass the full audio signal via HDMI.... only standard Stereo. So if you own the 622 and want full Dolby Digital you have to also run a digital audio cable to your receiver in addition to the HDMI. :(

Unfortunately none of the competing systems is perfect... it's just that the 8300HD is scraping the bottom of the barrel!

I called Cox this morning. They initially wanted to send a technician out to look at the issue, and I had to be respectful but forceful in conveying that the issue was not at my end. The phone tech finally volunteered to reset my cards, and that forced the CCI byte back to 0x00 (copy freely) for every channel. They couldn't say how it would have mysteriously gotten set to 0x03 (copy never), but at least now I know to check this periodically to make sure it doesn't change again and just call.

The largest frustration was the 10 minutes I spent caught in their phone tree. I finally just lied and told the automated system I had no picture just to get past the thing. Seems like to me if resetting the cablecards fixes so many issues that they should allow me to do that either via the automated system or the web. I guess if they did that they couldn't spread FUD about cablecard and claim a technician has to come out for any problem.

Well, the channels are all back for 0x03. Cox insisted on sending a tech out, and it will be a week before someone can come out to do nothing, since the problem is the way they have set the head end. I am filing a complaint with the local franchise authority while I wait. Maybe then somebody at Cox will get off their butts and fix a problem they created.

The text of my complaint:

On Thursday January 25 I discovered that Cox Communications, has set all digital channels to what is known as "copy never" (CCI byte set to 0x03). This has the effect of rendering a competing DVR product (the TiVo Series 3) useless while the Cox DVR continues to function normally.

This is a direct violation of FCC Regulation 76.1904 section a.1.ii, which clearly states that Cox may only set the CCI byte on non-premium subscription services to copy freely (0x00) or copy once (0x02). I have made two attempts with Cox to clear this matter up, and they have indicated that the problem is not theirs. I am now being forced to pay for a technician to visit my apartment so that he can fail to fix a problem that has resulted from an intentional and deliberate attempt on the part of Cox to stifle competition in this area.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.

edited to add text of complaint

I am now being forced to pay for a technician to visit my apartment so that he can fail to fix a problem that has resulted from an intentional and deliberate attempt on the part of Cox to stifle competition in this area.




Why would you have to pay for a Cox tech to come to your apartment? That doesn't sound right.

Why would you have to pay for a Cox tech to come to your apartment? That doesn't sound right.

They told me if they sent someone out and didn't find a problem they would charge. Then they tried to sell me insurance so I wouldn't have to pay. What a great scam. Create a problem, claim it isn't your fault, send a tech out to find no problem, then charge the customer for it.

And just to add on, I have confirmation of at least three other people from the Las Vegas area with TiVo Series 3s with the same problem, so this is not isolated to just me. If the integration ban was in effect every Cox Las Vegas customer would now be having this problem. I have the name of a "manager" and I will call and talk to her tomorrow. I have very low expectations, but maybe during normal business hours there will be someone around who has at least a quarter of a clue and will realize that someone at Cox changed the CCI setting last week. For all I know they changed it trying to troubleshoot the ongoing problem they are having with their OnDemand channel (which I heard about numerous times while on hold today).

This makes me long for the days of DirecTV, and that's saying something.

pkscout if I were you I would also write Senator Ensign and Senator Reid and tell them about it. I believe senator Ensign is on some of the committees that look at this stuff. Maybe if these guys in Washington get enough complaints about it they will reverse or not pass laws that make Cox able to screw with your equipment.

I had set that UNLV game up for recording so maybe that's what was messing my grandpa up. He's not the easiest person to talk to on the phone. At least it's good to know it wasn't blacked out.

pkscout if I were you I would also write Senator Ensign and Senator Reid and tell them about it. I believe senator Ensign is on some of the committees that look at this stuff. Maybe if these guys in Washington get enough complaints about it they will reverse or not pass laws that make Cox able to screw with your equipment.


I will keep that in mind if I can't get this resolved, but that seems like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. There are already regulations in place that balance the needs of the content providers with some semblance of fair use, and if Cox was following them it would be fine. They are within their rights to set the CCI byte to 0x02 (copy once), which would allow my TiVo to record it and allow me to watch it whenever I want. I just couldn't archive it to DVD/Video Tape or move it to another TiVo (not that I can anyway since CableLabs won't approve TiVo To Go or Multi Room Viewing).

We don't need new regulations, we just need Cox to follow the ones that are in place. The largest frustration is that nobody on the front end even knows anything about this. I'm spending my time educating Cox employees about the technical and regulatory landscape, and that just seems wrong to me.

My view is there shouldn't be a setting telling me I can't record something. I pay the service provider to give me the content. I don't think they have a right to say hey you can't reformat that show to play on your iPod or PSP or whatever as long as your not sending copies to everyone you know.

Plus I doubt sadly that our senators care too much about this, but if they hear lots of people complain about it maybe then they would do something. Like you said this sounds deliberate.

.

Weeks later, I ordered the Full Court college basketball package and here's where things got really weird. I tried to set the DVR for a game, and again the guide told me to buy it first.


PPV events are usually not recordable in advance. You can only start the recording after the event begins. ALSO, you will note that you CANNOT watch two PPV games at once using PIP. The little PIP box will only show green screen and not the game. Why this is the way it is , I dont know, but ESPN sports packages on 601-606 have always been that way. BUT...I had NBA league pass last year and those channels operated normally...could set up record in advance...go figure. I didnt like it either ,but have learned to live with it.

We don't need new regulations, we just need Cox to follow the ones that are in place. The largest frustration is that nobody on the front end even knows anything about this. I'm spending my time educating Cox employees about the technical and regulatory landscape, and that just seems wrong to me.

I talked to someone else at Cox for probably over 30 minutes just after lunch, and they reluctantly forwarded the info and ticket on to the team lead and the head end, but he still insisted on scheduling a tech for 2 weeks from now.

Well, I got home and there was a message from that same guy. Lo and behold there had in fact been a problem at the head end. Apparently there had been a miscommunication from corporate. The VOD and PPV channels were suppose to be set to copy never (0x03), the premium channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) to copy once (0x02), and everything else left as copy freely (0x00). So either corporate told them something different or somebody on the head end only read the first part and set basically everything to 0x03.

So it is fixed now, and hopefully Cox will be more careful in the future.

Oh, and I was right. ;) I hope they put a note in my file that says "listen to this guy when he calls, he actually knows something." :D

OK.
So now we know what 0X03 means, what 0x02 means and what 0X00 means.

What (if anything) would 0x01 mean?

With so many shows on the Premium Channels (HBO, Cinemax, Starz), repeated ad nauseum, would it be possible to copy such shows by simply setting your DVR to record each repeat?

Cox does NOT seem to understand the basic customer-seller relationship. WE are the consumers of the service that THEY provide. And by providing that service they make oodles of money. Why don't they understand that the customer is always right? And despite any ludicrous arguments or requests from its customers, they should MAKE EVERY EFFORT to satisfy them.
And of course, if they had any sort of viable competition, they would do just that.

hello avs,

I've spent the better part of the day discovering this forum - great site, great folks on here giving amazingly quick responses.

I'll be moving to the Vegas area (probably just north of Summerlin) by late fall. I'm wondering if Cox provides local HD programs through their basic cable service. My dad lives in PA and goes through Atlantic broadband and can not receive HD unless he purchases their 'premium' HD service, even for the locals.

I'm pretty good about knowing what i have to have in order to view it, HDTV, QAM tuner etc...

Thanks for the info, otherwise I'll be putting up an antenna.

OK.
So now we know what 0X03 means, what 0x02 means and what 0X00 means.

What (if anything) would 0x01 mean?


Reserved for future use? Maybe destroy DVR if recording attempted. ;)

I'll be moving to the Vegas area (probably just north of Summerlin) by late fall. I'm wondering if Cox provides local HD programs through their basic cable service. My dad lives in PA and goes through Atlantic broadband and can not receive HD unless he purchases their 'premium' HD service, even for the locals.

Hey, I know this answer now, having just gone through the same thing. With Cox you can get the broadcast networks via unencrypted QAM with no box. If you want the additional HD channels (like ESPNHD ESPN2HD, etc) then all you have to do is rent an HD STB or HDDVR (or have a TV or Series 3 TiVo which takes CableCARDS). There is no additional charge for the HD channels as long as you are getting at least the digital gateway service.

edited to clarify that any CableCARD device, not just a TiVo will get you the extra HD channels

pkscout if I were you I would also write Senator Ensign and Senator Reid and tell them about it. I believe senator Ensign is on some of the committees that look at this stuff. Maybe if these guys in Washington get enough complaints about it they will reverse or not pass laws that make Cox able to screw with your equipment.

I've written Senators Reid and Ensign on the broadcast flag, fair use, etc. Usually Ensign's responses are very condescending, talking about how important it is to protect it, etc. Reid at least acknowledges a need for balance between fair use and copyright.

I've written Senators Reid and Ensign on the broadcast flag, fair use, etc. Usually Ensign's responses are very condescending, talking about how important it is to protect it, etc. Reid at least acknowledges a need for balance between fair use and copyright.

Yep, the difference between reptilian brain stem dominated paranioa and sane cerebral thinking.

THIS JUST IN A&E HD To Launch Wednesday on Dish Network
SatelliteGuys.US has just learned that A&E HD will launch Wednesday by 5pm on Dish Network on channel 9419. A&E HD will be part of America’s Top 100+HD & higher (formerly DISH HD Bronze) on channel 9419.

From Satelliteguys.us

THIS JUST IN A&E HD To Launch Wednesday on Dish Network
SatelliteGuys.US has just learned that A&E HD will launch Wednesday by 5pm on Dish Network on channel 9419. A&E HD will be part of America’s Top 100+HD & higher (formerly DISH HD Bronze) on channel 9419.

From Satelliteguys.us

THIS JUST IN.....DISH NETWORK to LOSE coverage of Major League Baseballs "Extra Innings" package. That's more important to me than A&E in HD. And I suspect, more important to lots of other viewers. If you want it, Direct TV will be the only place to get it. COX ain't gonna have it either.

THIS JUST IN.....DISH NETWORK to LOSE coverage of Major League Baseballs "Extra Innings" package. That's more important to me than A&E in HD. And I suspect, more important to lots of other viewers. If you want it, Direct TV will be the only place to get it. COX ain't gonna have it either.

You are posting this in a "HD" forum. You are touting baseball in SD over a new HD channel. You lose here on that one.

When DTV provides more HD channels over anyone else and HD baseball, then you can claim fame here. :p

The service and picture quality provided by DIRECTV (if properly installed) makes the Cox service and picture look positively amateurish. Just hope that you live in an area where the O-T-A HD signals from all local stations, can reach you easily. Otherwise you may find yourself re-inatalling Cox Cable as well as retaining DirectV, just to get the local networks in HD.
But the "local networks in HD" on DirectV ARE coming. Probably before the end of 2006. Personally, I think it can't come soon enough. And when that does finally happen, Cox will be "sweating bullets" to retain its customers. Watch them improve their service, tech staff, customer relations and program offerings, then. It will all occur as if by "magic".

I don't see Cox sweating, but I do see Directv giving up a lot of money to keep and attract customers right now.

In regards to the Cox complaints on this forum the past few days, I just want to let you know we've reviewed this thread and are looking into your issues.

You are posting this in a "HD" forum. You are touting baseball in SD over a new HD channel. You lose here on that one.

When DTV provides more HD channels over anyone else and HD baseball, then you can claim fame here. :p

If I wanted to claim any fame, I wouldn't waste my time responding to you. I posted on a topic which I think is important. I do not require your agreement as to whether or not it is either important or approriate.

In regards to the Cox complaints on this forum the past few days, I just want to let you know we've reviewed this thread and are looking into your issues.


Welcome to the board. Its nice to finally have an "insider" from Cox participating since the majority here have your service. please keep us informed about any pending changes/problems.

You are posting this in a "HD" forum. You are touting baseball in SD over a new HD channel. You lose here on that one.

When DTV provides more HD channels over anyone else and HD baseball, then you can claim fame here. :p

DirecTV has provided Extra Innings HD for the past few seasons. In fact, during the baseball season it's probably more hours of actual HD each week than A&E is currently broadcasting.

Welcome to the board. Its nice to finally have an "insider" from Cox participating since the majority here have your service. please keep us informed about any pending changes/problems.
I'll do my best. Be watching off the side of my desk - but the direct feedback is very valuable. Let's us know where we are hitting or missing the mark.

DirecTV has provided Extra Innings HD for the past few seasons. In fact, during the baseball season it's probably more hours of actual HD each week than A&E is currently broadcasting.

Its not Extra Innings HD according to you Georgie, its Extra Innings HD-Lite.

In regards to the Cox complaints on this forum the past few days, I just want to let you know we've reviewed this thread and are looking into your issues.

Hey coxengr, where were you 2 years ago? Wheres the MR units, more HD channels and how come the firewire ports don't wok the same on the SA8300HD as it does with the 3250 box? Can you share the DVR progs on the other stb's?
When will the hd boxes have 16:9 EPG's? Have you fixed the Kick out to live problem yet?

I'm glad you are here? I'm awaiting your answers. :) :) :)

Foghorn...

I just noticed that the location of Coxengr is listed as Atlanta, Ga...if so he may not be able to answer your questions as the pertain to the Las Vegas market. Some of those issues may be fixed in selected markets. As far as I know, according to Vegggas, we still have the old Sara version in this market

Foghorn...

I just noticed that the location of Coxengr is listed as Atlanta, Ga...if so he may not be able to answer your questions as the pertain to the Las Vegas market. Some of those issues may be fixed in selected markets. As far as I know, according to Vegggas, we still have the old Sara version in this market


Well, speaking from personal experience, you can get SARA 1.88 if you speak to video tech support at the local branch and it does fix the Kick to Live problem. I've had 1.88 since Oct 2006.

Foghorn...
I just noticed that the location of Coxengr is listed as Atlanta, Ga...if so he may not be able to answer your questions as the pertain to the Las Vegas market. Some of those issues may be fixed in selected markets. As far as I know, according to Vegggas, we still have the old Sara version in this market
Atlanta is the corp HQ for Cox. So we're very involved with what all the markets are doing. As to the other question (where was I two years ago) - I only recently became involved on the video side. Have been previously devoted to high speed data and telephony engineering - so you can find plenty of my comments over on broadbandreports com. (silly - I can't put a URL in until I've posted here 5 times).

I'll do my best. Be watching off the side of my desk - but the direct feedback is very valuable. Let's us know where we are hitting or missing the mark.

I think you are hitting the mark by providing a fairly clean HD signal of locals and national networks to people who can't install a dish, or don't want to deal with OTA antennas.

I think my biggest complaint is lack of HD programming. Once I got the HD tv, I basically stopped watching SD, (its hard to watch once you seen HD :) ) so only having 10 or so non-premium HD channels is pretty limiting.

just my $0.02

-bob

I never did get that confirmation on the price drop on the STB's last week. So much for interpersonal contact info ;)

Last night though, in my mailbox, was an official flyer from Cox and it had the new price changes starting in March. There are price changes in both directions. It looks like basic, expanded basic and digital service, are getting a price bump. STB's are all going to a flat rate fee, and HD STB's are all going to be $5 less than previous rates. Trying to figure out my bill, it seems that my programming costs may go up about $5, but my rental will go down about $20. For me, I will save about $15 per month.

vegggas

Atlanta is the corp HQ for Cox. So we're very involved with what all the markets are doing. As to the other question (where was I two years ago) - I only recently became involved on the video side. Have been previously devoted to high speed data and telephony engineering - so you can find plenty of my comments over on broadbandreports com. (silly - I can't put a URL in until I've posted here 5 times).

Welcome coxengr,
Is this only one of several threads that you are trying to watch? Good luck.

Many are still bitter that there has been no update to the DVR software that most people around the country have been using for over a year now. I understand that something has to happen before the March DST change to prevent problems with SA gear, but we are still in the dark what or when that will happen.

vegggas

I think you are hitting the mark by providing a fairly clean HD signal of locals and national networks to people who can't install a dish, or don't want to deal with OTA antennas.

I think my biggest complaint is lack of HD programming. Once I got the HD tv, I basically stopped watching SD, (its hard to watch once you seen HD :) ) so only having 10 or so non-premium HD channels is pretty limiting.

just my $0.02

-bob

I was so dissatisfied with the SD channels (on my HDTV) as provided by Cox that I added DirecTV, connected to a standard 36" Sony TV. It costs me alot to have both services, but it is worth it for my satisfaction with the DirecTV picture. However, you are correct in lauding Cox for its local and network HD service. Nevertheless, when DirecTV finally adds locals in HD (without an additional antenna) I will throw out Cox so fast, its head will swim.

I was so dissatisfied with the SD channels (on my HDTV) as provided by Cox that I added DirecTV, connected to a standard 36" Sony TV. It costs me alot to have both services, but it is worth it for my satisfaction with the DirecTV picture. However, you are correct in lauding Cox for its local and network HD service. Nevertheless, when DirecTV finally adds locals in HD (without an additional antenna) I will throw out Cox so fast, its head will swim.

DirectTV has had the Las Vegas locals in HD for a while. You may need your dish and/or receiver upgraded.

DirectTV has had the Las Vegas locals in HD for a while. You may need your dish and/or receiver upgraded.

They have Fox, CBS, and ABC.

But where are NBC and PBS?

I was so dissatisfied with the SD channels (on my HDTV) as provided by Cox that I added DirecTV, connected to a standard 36" Sony TV. It costs me alot to have both services, but it is worth it for my satisfaction with the DirecTV picture. However, you are correct in lauding Cox for its local and network HD service. Nevertheless, when DirecTV finally adds locals in HD (without an additional antenna) I will throw out Cox so fast, its head will swim.

the key here is the 36" sony... the sd from cox looks fine on an sd TV, but my point was that I find myself not watching anything on any sd format if I can avoid it. I didn't mean to say cox's sd was bad, but that any hd is better. I guess my point to cox would be: more HD please!

It seems that there is a lot of talk here about bandwidth, but I think its probably money/rights related. I am not sure how many SD channels = 1 HD channel in bandwidth, but I bet I could find 50+ SD channels that very few watch in relation to how many would watch 2 or 4 more HD channels. I guess I mean if you took everyone who might watch A&E HD on cox, there are probably 20 SD channels combined not getting that viewership.

I would consider a dish, but my understanding was that while HOA's could not ban dishes, apartment owners could, and mine has, or at least I don't see any dishes OR external antennas in a 200+ unit complex.....

-bob

They have Fox, CBS, and ABC.

But where are NBC and PBS?

NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX are all in HD from DirecTv off the sat. The only one not available now is PBS, but they are still available in SD.

None of the subchannels are yet available.

Out here in Pahrump, I am grateful for what we DO get.

NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX are all in HD from DirecTv off the sat. The only one not available now is PBS, but they are still available in SD.

None of the subchannels are yet available.

Out here in Pahrump, I am grateful for what we DO get.
Is it possible that you get the network feeds in HD off the DirectTV satellite because you cannot receive local Las Vegas programming over the air, but must use cable or satellite? If you are not within a zip code which defines the actual Las Vegas area you probably are eligible to receive the network feeds from the Los Angeles stations. That is NOT true if you live in the greater Las Vegas area. We here in Las Vegas are "blacked out" or "ineligible" to receive the Los Angeles feeds. We MUST depend on local HD service as provided by the Las Vegas affiliates of NBC, CBS, Fox, ABC and PBS. And as far as I know DirecTV doesn't carry ALL of them yet.
Check your facts. I'm pretty sure I'm right.

I would consider a dish, but my understanding was that while HOA's could not ban dishes, apartment owners could, and mine has, or at least I don't see any dishes OR external antennas in a 200+ unit complex.....

-bob

Sorry, but I KNOW that you are under-informed.
I too live in a 200+ apartment complex. But I leased this apartment based on its following attribute:
" It must have a patio or balcony, with a clear, unobstructed view of the southern sky".".

If you also have such a balcony or patio and it faces in the right direction, according to the rules promulgated by the FCC, you MUST be allowed to install a satellite dish, providing your balcony or patio is NOT shared by another apartment, and is for your exclusive use. Local HOAs are over-ridden by this rule, as are the prohibitions mandated by the complex management or ownership. In short, your apt complex CANNOT prevent you from installing a dish, providing the requirements which I have enumerated, exist.

But you CANNOT place that dish on the roof of that complex, because the roof is shared by several apts and is not for your exclusive use.

We MUST depend on local HD service as provided by the Las Vegas affiliates of NBC, CBS, Fox, ABC and PBS. And as far as I know DirecTV doesn't carry ALL of them yet.
Check your facts. I'm pretty sure I'm right.

You're not, to a degree. The 4 major networks are available in HD for LV locals through D*. PBS is not. But, then again, PBS is not available in HD to ANY of the local markets through any sat provider.

Is it possible that you get the network feeds in HD off the DirectTV satellite because you cannot receive local Las Vegas programming over the air, but must use cable or satellite? If you are not within a zip code which defines the actual Las Vegas area you probably are eligible to receive the network feeds from the Los Angeles stations. That is NOT true if you live in the greater Las Vegas area. We here in Las Vegas are "blacked out" or "ineligible" to receive the Los Angeles feeds. We MUST depend on local HD service as provided by the Las Vegas affiliates of NBC, CBS, Fox, ABC and PBS. And as far as I know DirecTV doesn't carry ALL of them yet.
Check your facts. I'm pretty sure I'm right.

I have checked my facts. About two (?) months ago, D* started carrying the LV HD locals on the sat. The last local to come on board was channel 8. So, in fact, anyone in the LV DMA can receive local affiliate (satellite) HD broadcasts of ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX. Info re: local channel availability is detailed at D*'s internet site.

There is speculation that once D* gets the next two birds up, they will start to phase in PBS locals as well as subchannels and the minor nets such as the CW.

People living in the LV metro area have indicated that they do, in fact, get local HD programming off the sat.

By the way, before the first local HD became available, I was turned down for Distant Network locals.

If anyone is ordering the UFC PPV tonight, remember that you can get it in HD on 701, but that it's another $10 more.
You MUST order it on channel 701 to get the HD event! if you order it on 501, you will only get the SD event.
The UFC has been trying to get the HD PPV availability for some time, and a high buy count for this event will help bolster the entire franchise and other future events.

vegggas

I was so dissatisfied with the SD channels (on my HDTV) as provided by Cox that I added DirecTV, connected to a standard 36" Sony TV. It costs me alot to have both services, but it is worth it for my satisfaction with the DirecTV picture. However, you are correct in lauding Cox for its local and network HD service. Nevertheless, when DirecTV finally adds locals in HD (without an additional antenna) I will throw out Cox so fast, its head will swim.

You must have had some screwy configuration. My D* SD looked noticeably worse than Cox, even before D* compressed them even further and before Cox started doing digital simulcast. The only time I've seen Cox being worse is when people are trying to convert analog signal through an HDMI connection and doing multiple A/D and scaling conversions.
As others have mentioned, all but PBS is available on D* now, so you could switch and use antenna for PBS.
MLB's EI package is probably not going to be exclusive to D* either (despite media hype), so that would be a wash between the two.

vegggas

Veggas is right, SD looked better on Cox than it ever did on Direct tv. I remember watching Leave it to Beaver, Dallas, Brady Bunch and boy did that suck on Direct. With Dish Network, the SD is about the same as Cox except the LILs which is terrible with Dish, but who cares, I get the locals OTA with their DVR.

I also am able to record 33 and 21 in HD which right now is impossible with COX.

Last night though, in my mailbox, was an official flyer from Cox and it had the new price changes starting in March. There are price changes in both directions. It looks like basic, expanded basic and digital service, are getting a price bump. STB's are all going to a flat rate fee, and HD STB's are all going to be $5 less than previous rates. Trying to figure out my bill, it seems that my programming costs may go up about $5, but my rental will go down about $20. For me, I will save about $15 per month.

vegggas

Got specific numbers? I'm looking at finally jumping on board the HD DVR bandwagon (via Cox, wanted to go TiVo but I just see too many CC problems). Isnt it current $20/mo - $10 for the box rental and $10 for DVR service? What will it be after the adjustments?

KLAS is doing news promos in HD now. :)

Being originally from Indianapolis , I feel compelled to give a HUGE SHOUT OUT to those wonderful resilent COLTS ...2007 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS!!! I have my DVR loaded with wonderful memories of the past year soon to be archived . :) :) :)

Football sucks.

Glad it's over (except for that ridiculous Pro Bowl).
Now comes the BEST tournament in all of sports. The NCAA Basketball tournament (March Madness), followed by the happy return of baseball. From April to October are months of genuine joy for me.

I wish the football players would go on strike for the next decade or two. :cool:

Football sucks.

Glad it's over (except for that ridiculous Pro Bowl).
Now comes the BEST tournament in all of sports. The NCAA Basketball tournament (March Madness), followed by the happy return of baseball. From April to October are months of genuine joy for me.

I wish the football players would go on strike for the next decade or two. :cool:

That's odd, on my a/v system, I get to watch what I want. Thankfully, I'm not forced to watch baseball, but can do so if I really need a nap. Otherwise, I just ignore it and let other people enjoy something that I'm not really fond of. I don't begrudge anyone their personal tv/sports preferences.

Being originally from Indianapolis , I feel compelled to give a HUGE SHOUT OUT to those wonderful resilent COLTS ...2007 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS!!! I have my DVR loaded with wonderful memories of the past year soon to be archived . :) :) :)

How many home runs did they win by? :rolleyes:

I noticed that CBS HD is showing up on Cox QAM at 8-1. STILL no dice on 102.

Ugh.

From Cox Cable in Las Vegas:

Thank you for contacting Cox Communications. Cox is committed to
providing the best Customer service possible.

As per your request, we have provided a list of unencrypted HDTV
channels below.

We recently moved our local channels to a new facility located in the
Southeast area of Las Vegas. During our move, customers with a "Clear
QAM" TV who normally tune to HD channels without a receiver were unable
to view these channels.

Please note that you will find the channels are available at the
following locations:

Channel Station
101-7 CBS
102-1 ABC HD
102-2 NBC-HD
102-4 NBC
103-1 CBS HD
103-3 PBS HD
112-2 FOX HD
112-3 Fox 5 Weather

If you are unable to tune your television to these stations, please
contact the television manufacturer for programming instructions.

Yea all the stations show up properly now, with the PSIP data and all. Until Cox moves them again... I actually taught a buddy of mine how to get all the HD stations this weekend (he only has an SD cable box).

I don't begrudge anyone their personal tv/sports preferences.

Nor do I.

But the absolute FLOOD of football telecasts is maddening to me. In Sept, Sunday Night baseball was moved to ESPN2, in favor of a football game. Now of course, that ESPN 2 is available in HD, that complaint of mine is moot. But all day, Sat, all day Sunday, all night Monday, frequently all night Thursday, etc. And now the NFL Network, is gonna push out the few baseball games that INHD1 was previously carrying. That's the source of my bleat, NOT your preference for any sport.

How do you get the QAM channels? do you still need a OTA antenna? And is it true that some cities you can get more than your locals in QAM?

Larry,
You don't ever post (last post was?) but you drop a useful nugget like that out of the blue.
I just had a request to scan for all those channels again, but this saved me the time and trouble.
Thanks

vegggas

Westlife you can get the QAM channels via Cox if (and this is a big if) your TV has a QAM tuner in it. You wouldn't need an OTA antenna (that is 8VSB) as it comes in the cable from the cable company. All the digital channels are QAM but most are encrypted and you would need a cable card to decrypt the channels.

Nor do I.

But the absolute FLOOD of football telecasts is maddening to me. In Sept, Sunday Night baseball was moved to ESPN2, in favor of a football game. Now of course, that ESPN 2 is available in HD, that complaint of mine is moot. But all day, Sat, all day Sunday, all night Monday, frequently all night Thursday, etc. And now the NFL Network, is gonna push out the few baseball games that INHD1 was previously carrying. That's the source of my bleat, NOT your preference for any sport.

The deluge of baseball all summer is just as maddening to others. FAR too many games, played for FAR too long, by FAR too many teams. If they didn't just go through the motions for, say, the first 50 games, more might actually care about "America's Pastime".

But, to each their own.

Thank god for basketball. At least we've got a few months of something else, before a long hot summer of baseball.

That's odd, on my a/v system, I get to watch what I want. Thankfully, I'm not forced to watch baseball, but can do so if I really need a nap. .

I second that! Nothing like a good game of baseball to help get me to sleep :)

For the past two episodes of Heroes I noticed a gray line along the bottom of the show. But watching NBC right now there is no gray line. Also other channels do not have this, ive seen this only on NBC Heroes.

Is the network just having issues with the playback of Heroes?

I am watching via a Qam tuner not OTA.

For the past two episodes of Heroes I noticed a gray line along the bottom of the show. But watching NBC right now there is no gray line. Also other channels do not have this, ive seen this only on NBC Heroes.

Is the network just having issues with the playback of Heroes?

I am watching via a Qam tuner not OTA.

I haven't seen any issues with Heroes the last two weeks. I'm recording it on a TiVo Series 3 via the QAM channels on Cox.

Westlife you can get the QAM channels via Cox if (and this is a big if) your TV has a QAM tuner in it. You wouldn't need an OTA antenna (that is 8VSB) as it comes in the cable from the cable company. All the digital channels are QAM but most are encrypted and you would need a cable card to decrypt the channels.

Yes my HDTV has a QAM tuner

Many are still bitter that there has been no update to the DVR software that most people around the country have been using for over a year now. I understand that something has to happen before the March DST change to prevent problems with SA gear, but we are still in the dark what or when that will happen.
vegggas
There is an SA upgrade that will hit SA sites soon and will alleviate these issues (fix for the VCR and the fix for "Jump To Live") as well as introduce some new features. (next 4-6 weeks). We felt overall the SW drops we have received from SA since these fixes were implemented introduced other defects that would have had even more negative impact on the overall customer experience.

We felt overall the SW drops we have received from SA since these fixes were implemented introduced other defects that would have had even more negative impact on the overall customer experience.

Be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it. :p

Good lookin out!

There is an SA upgrade that will hit SA sites soon and will alleviate these issues (fix for the VCR and the fix for "Jump To Live") as well as introduce some new features. (next 4-6 weeks). We felt overall the SW drops we have received from SA since these fixes were implemented introduced other defects that would have had even more negative impact on the overall customer experience.
It better be the next 2-4 weeks. DST change is March 11th. that gives them 4 weeks to get it, test it and deploy it before the DVR's go nuts and screw up the recording times. ;)

vegggas

It better be the next 2-4 weeks. DST change is March 11th. that gives them 4 weeks to get it, test it and deploy it before the DVR's go nuts and screw up the recording times.Sorry - you're probably right, gotta be in place before 3/11. It's been in test a long time, so not something that's coming into the door this week!

Will somebody please speak english around here??

What is a DST change?
What is a "jump to live" function, and why does it need fixing?

DST = Daylight Savings Time

I'm not to sure about the jump to live thing.

I think vegggas was just kidding.

DST = Daylight Savings Time

I'm not to sure about the jump to live thing.

I think vegggas was just kidding.

There was (is) a bug in the software on some cable systems DVRs that if you are watching a recording before it finishes, when the recording finishes you are bumped from where you are in the recording to live TV. That is commonly called the "jump to live" bug.

Better known as "kick out to live" on most threads.

vegggas

Does Cox still require a service call to install a CableCard?

Does Cox still require a service call to install a CableCard?

Yup. Because putting a card in a slot, calling a phone number, and reading some number out loud is just too hard for people. :rolleyes:

I dunno.
When we went FROM daylight savings time back to standard time the last weekend in October, my STB reflected that time change quite easily. I had to do NOTHING. It was all automatic.
Why this sudden worry?

I think it was a joke Word. Notice the wink at the end of his post. Maybe it's an inside joke.

I thought that I read here awhile back, that Cox was getting TIVO software for its DVR's. Is that true or was I dreaming?

I dunno.
When we went FROM daylight savings time back to standard time the last weekend in October, my STB reflected that time change quite easily. I had to do NOTHING. It was all automatic.
Why this sudden worry?

DST is earlier this year. The DVRs out there might have the automatic change on the wrong dates in firmware. But I have a feeling the most DVRS simply have their running clocks reset on the fly from the headends or uplink centers(sat).

I thought that I read here awhile back, that Cox was getting TIVO software for its DVR's. Is that true or was I dreaming?

Cox is like Heinz ketchup, sloow, slow, good......

I dunno.
When we went FROM daylight savings time back to standard time the last weekend in October, my STB reflected that time change quite easily. I had to do NOTHING. It was all automatic.
Why this sudden worry?

Because the date for the change was moved by the "we have nothing better to do than this" congress. So if your software was set to move the time on a certain date (which is how all the systems are setup), it won't change on the right day without an update.

. But I have a feeling the most DVRS simply have their running clocks reset on the fly from the headends or uplink centers(sat).

THAT, without a doubt is the situation that prevails.

Again, like the "Millenium Disaster" (just to remind you-banks would fail, stock markets would crash, computers would cease functioning, fallout shelters were being built, etc) predicted by so many dolts, we have much ado about nothing.

For those with an HDTV that has only one HDMI input, you might be interested in the following item.
http://www.radiient.com/s.nl;jsessionid=ac112b1e1f43bc689c16ac1e4d2385bedbc66b8ca707 .e3eTaxaQbxmTe3qQbNeMbxyQe6fznA5Pp7ftolbGmkTy?sc=2&category=41&it=A&id=30

THAT, without a doubt is the situation that prevails.

Again, like the "Millenium Disaster" (just to remind you-banks would fail, stock markets would crash, computers would cease functioning, fallout shelters were being built, etc) predicted by so many dolts, we have much ado about nothing.

Yeah, like upgrading to Vista, Office 2007.....

THAT, without a doubt is the situation that prevails.

Again, like the "Millenium Disaster" (just to remind you-banks would fail, stock markets would crash, computers would cease functioning, fallout shelters were being built, etc) predicted by so many dolts, we have much ado about nothing.

I was on a team that found and fixed a great deal of Y2K related code. It wasn't prediction by dolts, it was lots of hard work that kept Y2K from being a problem. In fact, the work was done so well that all the Luddites claimed there had never been a problem. Kind of insulting when you stop and think about it.

Yup. Because putting a card in a slot, calling a phone number, and reading some number out loud is just too hard for people. :rolleyes:

Actually, that has nothing to do with the reason. It's a security issue as unlike the STBs, the cable card is 1 way only.

If you can't figure it out from there too bad as that's as much as you will get from me on the issue.

Actually, that has nothing to do with the reason. It's a security issue as unlike the STBs, the cable card is 1 way only.

And what does the fact that CableCARDS are one way have to do with anything? I stood there and watched the tech install my cards. He put them in, called a phone number, and read numbers from the screen to the person on the other end. There was no security there, no speaking of mystical phrases, no signs and counter signs. He called, read the numbers, hung up. If I have a certified device from CableLabs (which you can tell by using some part of the HostID the device provides), then why do I need to pay a tech to do this? Because the cable folks want to make it hard and expensive to use CableCARDS so folks won't bother.

edited to remove a comment that has nothing to do with the conversation

And what does the fact that CableCARDS are one way have to do with anything? I stood there and watched the tech install my cards. He put them in, called a phone number, and read numbers from the screen to the person on the other end. There was no security there, no speaking of mystical phrases, no signs and counter signs. He called, read the numbers, hung up. If I have a certified device from CableLabs (which you can tell by using some part of the HostID the device provides), then why do I need to pay a tech to do this? Because the cable folks want to make it hard and expensive to use CableCARDS so folks won't bother.

edited to remove a comment that has nothing to do with the conversation

In the future remember to use the cone of silence when giving out info on cable cards. :D

Well, if I am reading correctly, there will soon be Vista PCs with CableCard support. Since I'm due for a new computer anyway (current one 6 yrs old ), I was thinking it would be an way of adding Cox digital to my "computer room" without another cable box and TV. I wouldn't mind ONE-WAY service since it wont be used as the main viewing area of the house.

I would be very surprised to see a CableCard enabled computer. Not that I wouldn't want one, but from what I've seen with TiVo and Cablelabs I would be very surprised to say the least.

I would be very surprised to see a CableCard enabled computer. Not that I wouldn't want one, but from what I've seen with TiVo and Cablelabs I would be very surprised to say the least.

Prepare to be surprised. Microsoft kowtowed to the content industry a great deal so that Vista could be "precertified" by CableLabs. You can't buy Vista and build you're own CableCARD based Media Center, but several vendors have announced products built on Vista that are (or will be) certified by CableLabs using the ATI (or was it nVidia) external CableCARD box.

I hope your right, but I wouldn't hold your breath. I do like Vista though. It's great.

I hope your right, but I wouldn't hold your breath. I do like Vista though. It's great.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/02/the-clicker-a-sitdown-with-microsofts-joe-belfiore-part-i/

And what does the fact that CableCARDS are one way have to do with anything? I stood there and watched the tech install my cards. He put them in, called a phone number, and read numbers from the screen to the person on the other end. There was no security there, no speaking of mystical phrases, no signs and counter signs. He called, read the numbers, hung up. If I have a certified device from CableLabs (which you can tell by using some part of the HostID the device provides), then why do I need to pay a tech to do this? Because the cable folks want to make it hard and expensive to use CableCARDS so folks won't bother.

edited to remove a comment that has nothing to do with the conversation

As stated, you don't get the big picture - and it has nothing to do with reading off numbers or making it harder or more expensive to use CableCARDS.

Some people grasp the big picture - some never will.

Some people grasp the big picture - some never will.

Why then don't you explain the "big picture" to us idiots?

Why then don't you explain the "big picture" to us idiots?

So not to give you the "idiots" any ideas of Security flaws.

I can tell you two are going to get along just fine here!! A matched pair ! :D

Ah yes, security through obscurity, you know it worked so well for MS, it'll work just fine for cable companies. :rolleyes:

Personally, unless there is something broken in the encryption of CCs, there is nothing you cant do with a CC device that you cant do with a digital cable box. That is, take it to a friends house on the same node, etc. So in terms of physical security there is no real difference. The CC is paired with the device (or its supposed to) so you cant take them out of a TiVo and bring them to a friends house.

My problem is that some HD channels that I am able to get have a superb picture but no sound? One other HD channel has picture and sound. There are only about 4 HD channels I am receiving, should there be more?

GPJ


As previously posted:

Channel Station
101-7 CBS
102-1 ABC HD
102-2 NBC-HD
102-4 NBC
103-1 CBS HD
103-3 PBS HD
112-2 FOX HD
112-3 Fox 5 Weather

Occasionally you will have to have your tv rescan for digital channels as Cox will change things up every now and then

I just bought another HDTV it's an LCD 32" GoVideo made by Soyo I was just wonder if it has a QAM Tuner here is a link to the TV

http://wize.com/flat-panel-televisions/specs/soyo-gvnl3268ab-32-in-lcd-television

The reviews on this LCD are very good

I just bought another HDTV it's an LCD 32" GoVideo made by Soyo I was just wonder if it has a QAM Tuner here is a link to the TV

http://wize.com/flat-panel-televisions/specs/soyo-gvnl3268ab-32-in-lcd-television

The reviews on this LCD are very good

I've never heard of Soyo. Try asking in the LCD forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=166

You probably could have gotten a 37" Olevia for the same price at Fry's.

I bought it using Bill Me Later from Ecost.com that's why...couldn't afford one out right

I was wondering why CW and MYLV TV are not picked up with a QAM tuner?

CBS HD, NBC HD, FOX HD, PBS HD and ABC HD are there but it would be nice to get the other 2 or atleast CW. Also is there a way to pick up ESPNHD, TNTHD and ESPN2HD? I've read some people pick up On Demand stuff but I don't know how. I've even read someone picked up INHD

If anyone cares, the NBA TV coverage of the local All-Star programming is being simulcast on FSN Ch 50 for free with a banner saying you can order the sports package.

vegggas

I was wondering why CW and MYLV TV are not picked up with a QAM tuner?

CBS HD, NBC HD, FOX HD, PBS HD and ABC HD are there but it would be nice to get the other 2 or atleast CW. Also is there a way to pick up ESPNHD, TNTHD and ESPN2HD? I've read some people pick up On Demand stuff but I don't know how. I've even read someone picked up INHD
The CW and MyLV TV are owned by Sinclair broadcasting. They expect $1.00/month from every basic cable subscriber for the privilidge of being able to view their mediocre and watered down sub-HD-Lite signal offerings.
The other channels are part of expanded digital basic and are scrambled. You need a digital package with a decryption device to get those channels.

vegggas

I was wondering why CW and MYLV TV are not picked up with a QAM tuner?

CBS HD, NBC HD, FOX HD, PBS HD and ABC HD are there but it would be nice to get the other 2 or atleast CW. Also is there a way to pick up ESPNHD, TNTHD and ESPN2HD? I've read some people pick up On Demand stuff but I don't know how. I've even read someone picked up INHD

Its because Cox (is cheap) won't provide all your local channels in HD while charging you 20 bucks a month to get a clunky HD DVR. You can't even get it off the air with their crappy HD boxes.

I get all the local HD channels off the air for free with my Dish Network Vip622 and Vip211. :) :) :) :) :) :)

I suspect that "foghorn2" is a shill for the "Dish Network" and that "Vegggas" does similar work for Cox Cable.

But this in NO WAY diminishes the good contributions to this forum that they often make.

foghorn2 has convinced me of the quality and quantity of "Dish Network", and I would make the change to their service in a heartbeat. But baseball is very important to me, and unfortunatly it seems that both Cox and Dish will be "shut out" of the MLB "Extra Innings" package. .So I have to stay with DirectV for baseball and with Cox for local HDs.

I suspect that "foghorn2" is a shill for the "Dish Network" and that "Vegggas" does similar work for Cox Cable.

.\

Were you born an asshat or did you just wake up that way?

I suspect that "foghorn2" is a shill for the "Dish Network" and that "Vegggas" does similar work for Cox Cable.

But this in NO WAY diminishes the good contributions to this forum that they often make.

foghorn2 has convinced me of the quality and quantity of "Dish Network", and I would make the change to their service in a heartbeat. But baseball is very important to me, and unfortunatly it seems that both Cox and Dish will be "shut out" of the MLB "Extra Innings" package. .So I have to stay with DirectV for baseball and with Cox for local HDs.

Al Gore, the inventor of the internet, was lately reported to initiate congress action to stop the Directv's monopoly of MLB EI. As usual, he's probably gonna lose although he's right.

Sports is the only thing that keeps Directv in business along with the ones who subscribe because they don't know any better.

\

Were you born an asshat or did you just wake up that way?

Be nice, he's "wakened" up this board. Its boring without him.

For those with D*, there is a free preview of Nascar IN CAR for Sunday . Channels 794-799. Does Directv have a monopoly on this service also?

Al Gore, the inventor of the internet, was lately reported to initiate congress action to stop the Directv's monopoly of MLB EI. As usual, he's probably gonna lose although he's right.

Sports is the only thing that keeps Directv in business along with the ones who subscribe because they don't know any better.

The last time I looked, Al Gore was no longer a member of Congress. Nor does he hold any official capacity in the government. IMO, that's too bad as I would have preferred him as President to the numbskull we have. And I don't think that aficinados of either football (NFL) or Baseball (MLB-EI) will disparage DirectV as vigourously as you do. Am I to assume that you don't care for ANY professional sports?

... I don't think that aficinados of ... football (NFL) ... will disparage DirectV ...

I blame the NFL's myopia.

I blame the NFL's myopia.
The NFL went where the money was.

Wouldn't you?

And MLB is doing the same thing. They will (according to reports) receive 700 million dollars over the life of the contract. The cable industries only offered 70 million for the same time span. Doesn't seem like too tough a decision to me.

I know I am breaking some kind of forum etiquette by not browsing all 158 pages and searching for the subject just expands that number, so I will just ask my Vegas brothers (and sisters).

Got a new HD set (Mits WD-65732) yesterday. I have COX, using the 8300HD DVR, have it set with the SATA hard drive even, thanks to you guys. Since this is my first set with HDMI, I grabbed a HDMI cable, connected and NOTHING. Sent the HDMI connection thru my A/V setup and no audio or video signal there.

I have read older posts where COX only turns on the HDMI connection via customer request only. I am guessing the HDMI is just not active on the COX box since component video and coaxial audio is fine. Just wondering if anyone in Vegas has any knowledge they could throw my way. Thanks again!

You can try to reboot the Box...Also,, there is a setting called "auto hdmi" under the settings menu. Make sure thats selected.

You can try to reboot the Box...Also,, there is a setting called "auto hdmi" under the settings menu. Make sure thats selected.
Do not have that choice within my settings menu. Old COX firmware/box I suspect?

I know I am breaking some kind of forum etiquette by not browsing all 158 pages and searching for the subject just expands that number, so I will just ask my Vegas brothers (and sisters).

Got a new HD set (Mits WD-65732) yesterday. I have COX, using the 8300HD DVR, have it set with the SATA hard drive even, thanks to you guys. Since this is my first set with HDMI, I grabbed a HDMI cable, connected and NOTHING. Sent the HDMI connection thru my A/V setup and no audio or video signal there.

I have read older posts where COX only turns on the HDMI connection via customer request only. I am guessing the HDMI is just not active on the COX box since component video and coaxial audio is fine. Just wondering if anyone in Vegas has any knowledge they could throw my way. Thanks again!

Sounds to me like your problem is far simpler than the "experts" on this forum will admit. You said you "grabbed" an HDMI cable. ALL HDMI cables are not the same. Some are non-functioning, some merely adequate, some good or very good, and some excellent. Try to get a better HDMI cable than you have now. It is NOT unusual for a miniscule break in the cable to make it totally inoperative.

Sounds to me like your problem is far simpler than the "experts" on this forum will admit. You said you "grabbed" an HDMI cable. ALL HDMI cables are not the same. Some are non-functioning, some merely adequate, some good or very good, and some excellent. Try to get a better HDMI cable than you have now. It is NOT unusual for a miniscule break in the cable to make it totally inoperative.
Maestro, I do have a decent HDMI cable, in fact, I "grabbed" two from my place of employment. One for the COX Box to A/V connection and one for A/V to HDTV. Tried both with the COX box to TV direct and no joy. The cables are the same brand and returns are nill for this cable. (but I was thinking that at first though too!)

Since I don't have the "auto-HDMI" selection in my settings mentioned above, I am thinking it's a older firmware problem with the HDMI disabled. Just figured someone in Vegas might have stumbled upon this problem. I will wrestle with COX this evening, hope I get lucky and find a tech who knows what HDMI is.

Sounds to me like your problem is far simpler than the "experts" on this forum will admit. You said you "grabbed" an HDMI cable. ALL HDMI cables are not the same. Some are non-functioning, some merely adequate, some good or very good, and some excellent. Try to get a better HDMI cable than you have now. It is NOT unusual for a miniscule break in the cable to make it totally inoperative.

It's digital. No one HAS to spend a fortune on HDMI cables, although Monster will try to convince you otherwise.
Monoprice.com or Blue Jeans Cable will give you the same quality at a fraction of the price.

You may want to check the input settings on your TV - I was informed by Cox that the HDMI port was activated on all of the SA8300DVR boxes. I have a 15-month old box that has always worked fine for HDMI.

Do not have that choice within my settings menu. Old COX firmware/box I suspect?

Also remember that there are two "settings" menus... one if you push "settings" once, another if you push it again. Its called "more settings" in the first settings menu.

The "auto/hdmi" setting is under "picture format" (I think) in the second larger (more choices) menu...the options are fixed, or hdmi/auto, or upconvert I if I remember correctly...

-bob

Also about the "auto-hdmi" setting..if I remember correctly, it only shows up if a working HDMI cable is connected from 8300 to the HDTV. Otherwise you will probably see "pass-through" in its place .....which is what you will see when using only component connection

OK, got it working, just need to read my manuals for the A/V so I can go COX > > A/V > > WD-65732

Read some forums where it said to switch HD/SD resolutions on the 8300HD DVR so there is no 480i/480p active settings. I set for only 720p and 1080i and it worked! Video came through, adjusted digital audio for HDMI and the picture format setting did switch to Auto DVI/HDMI instead of Pass-Through. The 1080i setting for SD channels is actually a better picture for me than setting for 480i/480p. Did not think it would work with the 1080i setting.

I get good HDMI signal going direct from COX box to HDTV and I also get audio going COX to AV to HDTV, just no video that way. Thanks for your help!!!

Hey guys, this is my very first post.

I have a HDTV with a built in tunner (Sony SXRD KDS-50A2000). I don't have Cox cable and am just using an antenna. I live in west Vegas area, near Summerlin.

I can get:

5.1 KVVU-HD (Fox HD)
5.2 KVVU-DT (Fox weather?)
11.1 KLVX-DT (PBS, I think)
11.2 PBS channel "Vegas"?
11.3 PBS channel "Create"?
21.1 KVMY (My Network TV HD)
33.1 KVCW (CW HD)

and some weak analog channels and maybe some other channels I'm not interested in.

My question is, where is NBC HD and ABC HD? I get Fox HD, CW HD, PBS HD (I think it is PBS), something called "My Network TV" HD and they look great. I want The Office in HD! Any info would be appreciated.

NBC HD would show up as 3.1 in your receiver. KVBC is broadcasting their digital signal on RF channel 2 which for various technical reasons is usually very difficult to receive reliably without an extremely large outdoor antenna.

ABC HD would show up on 13.1 and is broadcasting on RF channel 12. You should be able to receive it just by adjusting your antenna and rescanning for channels.

Are you also missing CBS HD (8.1 RF channel 7)?

Adjusting my antenna did get me ABC HD, thanks!

I guess I'm out of luck for NBC HD, I only have a pretty basic indoor antenna.

And yeah, I am missing CBS HD. I've tried to reposition the antenna, I get a crappy channel 8 signal, but no 8.1.

ALL HDMI cables are not the same. Some are non-functioning, some merely adequate, some good or very good, and some excellent.

This couldn't be further from the truth. HDMI cables are digital. They either work, or they don't. A $10 Monoprice.com cable is just has good as a $100 Monster cable. Same exact quality. Don't let anyone tell you any different.

Woke up this morning to find new SARA version 1.89.18.1 loaded up on 8300DVR

I thought that I read here awhile back, that Cox was getting TIVO software for its DVR's. Is that true or was I dreaming?

Since nobody answered this question, I'll ask it again. I heard the same thing about 3 or 4 months ago... has anybody else heard anything about the Cox DVR using the TiVo Software?

I'm VERY interested in this because I currently use TiVo, but I would like to upgrade my entire setup to HD. I don't feel like spending a lot of $$$ on the TiVo HD unit, not to mention I think it uses CableCards, and I don't know if that is the best solution. I do, however, LOVE the TiVo interface. I also wouldn't want to have to teach my wife another DVR interface as she is just getting used to the TiVo software.

Any news? Thanks!

-Scott

Another quick question that I wasn't able to find on here or on cox.com

Does the Cox HD-DVR (I think it's the SA 8300) have dual-tuner capability? Can I record 1 channel and watch another (or record 2 shows at the same time)?

Thanks again!

Another quick question that I wasn't able to find on here or on cox.com

Does the Cox HD-DVR (I think it's the SA 8300) have dual-tuner capability? Can I record 1 channel and watch another (or record 2 shows at the same time)?

Thanks again!



You can find ALL your answers regarding the 8300 DVR here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859&page=1&pp=20


And for those interested, all the new features added in newer SARA software versions are listed there also.

Im trying to understand this whole DTV with Cox cable. When 2009 rolls around will I able able to receive the "basic expanded" channels that I get now? Food/A&E/Bravo etc? and just use the Qam functions of my TV or does this require the use of a rented cable card/stb?

Since nobody answered this question, I'll ask it again. I heard the same thing about 3 or 4 months ago... has anybody else heard anything about the Cox DVR using the TiVo Software?

I'm VERY interested in this because I currently use TiVo, but I would like to upgrade my entire setup to HD. I don't feel like spending a lot of $$$ on the TiVo HD unit, not to mention I think it uses CableCards, and I don't know if that is the best solution. I do, however, LOVE the TiVo interface. I also wouldn't want to have to teach my wife another DVR interface as she is just getting used to the TiVo software.


Given that the TiVo software hasn't even rollout out for Comcast yet, I suspect it'll be awhile. In addition, the TiVo port was for Motorola hardware. All the stuff in this area is SA, so we'll be waiting even longer. My bet is it will be at least 18 - 24 months before (or if) you see if TiVo interface on any SA equipment.

Im trying to understand this whole DTV with Cox cable. When 2009 rolls around will I able able to receive the "basic expanded" channels that I get now? Food/A&E/Bravo etc? and just use the Qam functions of my TV or does this require the use of a rented cable card/stb?

The 2009 date is for off the air signals only. The cable companies are not being required to discontinue their analog service. There are some bandwidth reasons driving them to get off analog, but no FCC mandate. What you will need to get the "basic" channels digitally is unknown (at least to me), but my bet is that the cable company will make you rent a box again to get the digital stuff, while at the same time claiming they want to get out of the business of renting boxes.

Will somebody please give me a straight answer to these question?

1. Are the local HD stations (NBC,CBS,Fox,ABC) as provided by DirectV, equal (or better than) in quality of signal (clarity, pixelization, other interruptions) etc, to those provided by Cox Cable?

2. Is the HR- 20 HD-DVR as provided by DirectV, equal to, better than, or worse than the 8300HD as provided by Cox Cable?

3. Would I see an improvement in picture quality and convenience of use if I went to the TIVO Series 3, and threw out the 8300HD altogether?

Costs are NOT a factor.

Will somebody please give me a straight answer to these question?

1. Are the local HD stations (NBC,CBS,Fox,ABC) as provided by DirectV, equal (or better than) in quality of signal (clarity, pixelization, other interruptions) etc, to those provided by Cox Cable?

2. Is the HR- 20 HD-DVR as provided by DirectV, equal to, better than, or worse than the 8300HD as provided by Cox Cable?

3. Would I see an improvement in picture quality and convenience of use if I went to the TIVO Series 3, and threw out the 8300HD altogether?

Costs are NOT a factor.

1. Cox > DTV for PQ
2. Cox = DTV for DVR
3. Yes, but don't throw it out, you don't own it.

Actually Dish > Cox,DTV
but DTV > Dish,Cox for baseball and football :D :D

so stick with DTV, you belong with them ;)

Will somebody please give me a straight answer to these question?

1. Are the local HD stations (NBC,CBS,Fox,ABC) as provided by DirectV, equal (or better than) in quality of signal (clarity, pixelization, other interruptions) etc, to those provided by Cox Cable?

2. Is the HR- 20 HD-DVR as provided by DirectV, equal to, better than, or worse than the 8300HD as provided by Cox Cable?

3. Would I see an improvement in picture quality and convenience of use if I went to the TIVO Series 3, and threw out the 8300HD altogether?



Straight answers are hard when many of your questions require subjective answers. The only way to get a "straight" answer for #1 is to find someone who knows the bit rates and size of the HD for the two services. In my experience, the two are similar.

As for #2, I guess that depends on what you want the box to do, so I'll skip it since I can't give you a straight answer. ;)

Now #3. I don't think you'll see an improved picture quality, and convenience is tricky. Short term the S3 is a pain because Cox has to send a tech to your house to install the cable cards. Then if you have even the smallest problem they want to send a tech out to your house (even when, as you'll recall from previous posts of mine, the problem is the way they configure their head end). Long term I think the TiVo interface is much friendlier than the 8300, but my experience with the 8300HD is with the Passport software, and I understand we have SARA here, so...

I think the bottom line is there are no straight answers. TiVo has a 30 day return policy, so you might just try it. Of course you'll be out the $60 or so for install of the cablecards no matter what.

ALL HDMI cables are not the same. Some are non-functioning, some merely adequate, some good or very good, and some excellent.
This couldn't be further from the truth. HDMI cables are digital. They either work, or they don't. A $10 Monoprice.com cable is just has good as a $100 Monster cable. Same exact quality. Don't let anyone tell you any different.
I've handled literally thousands of HDMI cables and displays (no joke). I have seen cables that are marginal and do affect the picture quality. Most often it's in the form of splarkles on the image (remember the Atari 2600 game megamania?).
I have seen a few that, due to errors in the signal path, appear blurred and without as much detail (like SD - could have been a bad handshake line too), and some that appeared to cause macroblocking and pixelation.
Just because it's digital doesn't mean it's perfect or doesn't have enough errors to cause visible problems. For the most part though, it either works or doesn't. Some errors are correctable enough to not cause problems, but they still exist.

vegggas

Woke up this morning to find new SARA version 1.89.18.1 loaded up on 8300DVR
Anyody else?
comments?

vegggas

Anyody else?
comments?

vegggas

Well, my STB HAS changed as of this morning. But as far as I'm concerned it's NOT for the better.

Previously, going from the program guide to a selected channel or going from one channel to another using the numeric keypad, was a silent and unobtrusive experience. NOW when either going to or from the program guide or going from station to station there is a loud sound of static, followed by a momentary drop out in the audio of the selected channel. Also, previously when tuning to a station transnitting in the widescreen format, the picture came on IN WIDESCREEN INSTANTLY. Now there are momentary black bars on both sides of the image before it switches to widescreen.

THIS, is supposed to be a progressive update??
Like hell it is.

According to the available notes, HDCP is now being enforced more over HDMI. Different displays will handle the enforcement differently depending on how they implement the HDCP handshake. There is no change in the way component connections are being delivered though :D
I like the addition of the "NEW" indicator in the IPG and the extended options for recording series events.

vegggas

According to the available notes, HDCP is now being enforced more over HDMI. Different displays will handle the enforcement differently depending on how they implement the HDCP handshake. There is no change in the way component connections are being delivered though :D
I like the addition of the "NEW" indicator in the IPG and the extended options for recording series events.

vegggas

Why that "big grin"? Are you actually discouraging us from using HDMI?

And really, I'm not even sure that response was an answer to my complaints of "NEW" difficulties. Was it?

Yes, I vehemently discourage the use of HDMI. There is no benefit other than DRM and HDCP control by the studios. Component output is exactly the same signal without the DRM restrictions and HDCP problems. People who see a lesser difference on component are usually seeing the result of a bad A-D-Scaler process in their display.
And yes, the responce was the answer to your new difficulties. Stronger enforcement of HDCP is showing that your display is not able to process the information as fast as you would like, but at least it is working. I would guess that at least one person locally posting will not be able to view HD over HDMI due to increased tighting of restrictions. We have had it easier than most other areas where enforcement started last year.

vegggas

Anyody else?
comments?

vegggas
I saw this update show up a couple of weeks ago on my 8300HD in the form of the new info listings. In wrestling with my HDMI problem posted a couple of days ago, I noticed a message pop up about the DVR and hard drive when I powered on last night and POOF, there was the update for my 8300HD DVR. The NEW 4x forward is a little too fast for me. Too used to the 3x forward and counting a couple of seconds to skip commercials. Other than that, all is good....for now.

The NEW 4x forward is a little too fast for me. Too used to the 3x forward and counting a couple of seconds to skip commercials. Other than that, all is good....for now.

The new 4x is really not intended for commercial skipping. It's handy when you need to get halfway thru a long program.

As for the new update...Everything is the same font style and size now in the basic info screen that shows up on the bottom of the screen. I think it's a little harder to read than before. The new 4x FF and RW is a welcome addition. And hopefully, the kick to live bug is fixed in this release....and also the bad resolution when using Copy to VCR mode.