I don't think you are following what I was trying to say.
1) I am guessing that they are transmitting a digital signal only to appease FCC guidlines.
2) That digital signal is probably being derived from their current analog feed, right at the tower.
3) This would mean broadcasting the exact same signal and format on an analog carrier and also on a digital carrier at the end of the line.
4) To broadcast a DIFFERENT signal or RESOULTION requires a completely NEW path from the point of:
..a) Download off sat in higher original resolution (not upscaled) from national feed and retain digital format. (requires digital reciever with digital outputs - Most likely completely different that previous, non-upgradeable analog reciever)
..b) Mixing the digital signal with local comercials in the higer resolution in digital format. (requires a bunch of new digital processing equipment - locals will be converted to digital [upscaled] to continue processing in a completely digital format - also, many possible A/D and D/A conversions.
..c) Send entire digital stream to tower via private low power transmitter; this would have to be a whole new system. Requires digital transmitter and reciever pair with OTA or Fiber capabilities. Fiber requires a new line pull and equipment. OTA needs FCC approval within allocated frequencies that are not standard public use.
..d) High power Digital transmitter. Requires transmitter capable of sending out a digital stream. Probably not much difference in type for different resolutions, only output power and range.

What they may have done, to save money, is keep everything analog, including their recieving, mixing and broadcasting systems. There would be no upgrade until the end of the line where they would take the same analog 480i feed at the last transmitter, and put that same exact signal onto a digital carrier.
Does that make more sense? If the above is true, then an OTA 480i signal would satisfy FCC guidlines, but save potentially millions on equipment, engineering and installation costs.
To forgo the entire line path upgrade and give the Higher Def signal to COX, would only require step "a" for recieving equipment only.
We have already noted that NBC has all of the right equipment for HD, but they just CAN'T get that signal to the tower within a reasonable time for a reasonable cost.
Essentially, TV stations are having to build an entire second TV station for true HD OTA transmission
The choice to choose a higher resolution is already mandated by the national feed that they get sent to them.

vegggas

Yes that makes more sense, but if that is true I think they are a bunch of cheap-o's. If they are not willing to give me the signal the FCC is trying to get the networks to provide I will be forced to find another way to watch FOX. It's a shame because they are one of the only stations I get OTA.

The FCC's main goal is to free up the analog spectrum used by television stations and upgrade from 1940's broadcast technology. They do not require stations to go to HiDef at all, only that they choose to broadcast digitally and eventually cease high power analog broadcasts.
The networks and stations will decide wether or not to go Hidef. It will probably be based on consumer bias if their signal looks less clear on their channel than the others. Because of regional station coverage, though, we are forced to watch a monoply created by the networks. If I want to watch a new episode of CSI, I MUST watch CBS, which thankfully is in HD. If I want to watch (insert FOX show here) I am forced to watch it a lower resolution, because there is no competition.
By the way, if they do provide a feed to COX rather than OTA, that's one more benefit for having local cable... ;-) [had to say it!]

vegggas

If the main goal of the FCC is to make everyone go digital why did they set guidlines for the networks to have (I forgot how many hours per week) of enhanced programing. They specifically didn't say HD they just wanted the networks to show something better than NTSC. It probibly goes back to the goal of the FCC to make eveyone go digital but I think now that most of the networks have some kind of signal that is superior they should make the same type of guidlines to the local affiliates. If I were Fox (or any other network) and had my affiliates just skating by with the bare minimum I would be mad because I've spent all kinds of money to make the broadcast better. One way the FCC can make the transition happen faster is to allow networks to place there HD (or 480p in Fox's case) on satallite and if your local affiliate doesn't pass the networks digital signal allow the sat companies to let you buy it from them. All of us in this forum have done our part and bought the equipment now the local affiliates need to do there part and implament the networks digital signal. Now I'm not talking about stations that have a plan to pass the network feed like NBC but I am talking about Fox and WB who have NO plans to do this.

most of the networks have some kind of signal that is superior they should make the same type of guidlines to the local affiliates. If I were Fox (or any other network) and had my affiliates just skating by with the bare minimum I would be mad because I've spent all kinds of money to make the broadcast better
Local affiliates go through numerous changes. WB, Fox and others have changed ownership and affiliation multple times here in the valley. They only act as a business that liscence the networks info. Think of a fast food franchise, some are Corporate owned and have strict guidlines and full support of the parent company for larger fees- these look all the same. The independants carry the basic name and look of the corporate company, but operate by themselves for lesser fees and have less support. These stations BUY the programming they think locals would like to see so that advertisers can BUY commercial space - at the same time, the networks insist on locals carrying national comercials for their advertisers as well. Lots of legal stuff...
One way the FCC can make the transition happen faster is to allow networks to place there HD (or 480p in Fox's case) on satallite and if your local affiliate doesn't pass the networks digital signal allow the sat companies to let you buy it from them.
Technically they do! All network feeds are passed via sattelite. BUD users can usually pick up the network feeds that are not scrambled (some get those too) if they move their dish to those private sats. Digital sat providers have the problem with not enough bandwidth for that many channels and as with local channels, liscening - more legal stuff.
All of us in this forum have done our part and bought the equipment now the local affiliates need to do there part and implament the networks digital signal.
We, the minority, have done our part. The local affiliates are also doing their part, but they have a timeline to adhere to. The big networks are under scutiny from the FCC to go digital and HD, but local independants are not. NBC's operating budget for one month may be larger than FOX's for an entire year, yet the equipment prices remain the same. NBC could absorb the cost faster than FOX could even request a loan to make an upgrade plan. Also, besides mid level independants like FOX, WB and UPN, there are a total of 27 TV broadcasters in the Las Vegas market, but the low power stations do not have to upgrade until much later. UPN falls into the low power category that doesn't have to upgrade.
Now I'm not talking about stations that have a plan to pass the network feed like NBC but I am talking about Fox and WB who have NO plans to do this.
Are we sure that FOX and WB are NOT planning on passing the signal? COX has FOX in their new HD lineup, and they could easily pass their sat feed just like NBC to local viewers. What about other local digital stations, like KBLR, KINC, and KFBT? They are digital, but not broadcasting HD, but they are not required to do so either.
Until there is even more programming available to all stations, we will be in a void of HD programming. Local affiliates can help if they begin transmitting what they recieve as HD, but until it reaches "x" amount of viewers for "x" amount of hours, there is no benefit in doing this. Just seeing upconverted material is NOT what we want, especially since most source material is shot on video (except for CBS who mostly uses 35mm) and looks like crap anyway. The easiest and most cost effective way to get a new HD signal out to the local masses is through local cable infrastructure, but that depends on agreements between the stations and the cable operators.
I've become very longwinded again...
thanks for bringing up those points
vegggas

I have emailed Fox and got this response.

Right now we are not passing it. We need to purchase a new encoder, video switcher, and other equipment to pass the 480p wide screen. It will cost about another $350,000 to do this. We are trying to put this in the budget for this year. Our initial investment, of $1.8 million, just put our digital signal on the air and met the FCC mandate. It is a big chunk of changer to do it all at one time.....

Jack Smith

As I have reread this I changed my mind about Fox as long as they are trying to put it in the budget. They are not completely off the hook because have had several years to plan this out.

This is the email I got from the WB.

The WB 'network' offers HDTV programming on a select few shows. While
there are no current shows being offered in this market (on the part of
the KVWB) in HDTV, we continue to look at future possibilities. Right
now, KVWB is operating at reduced power awaiting completion of the high
power transmission facility. After that project is complete, and DTV is
further recognized in the Las Vegas market, we will be looking closely
at the increased capitalization needs for HDTV and other advanced offerings.

Stay tuned to the station for upcoming announcements. (I will bcc this
to the station management, and they may elect to further this
communication.)

"Mr. DTV"

So I think they have no plans pass the HD feed.

What I would like to hear from these guys are one of the following responses.

The equipment is on backorder. or
We will be buying the equipment within <insert time frame here>

What I find unacceptable is the following.
We have no plans to offer this.
There are not enough people in the valley to warrent it.

Maybe I just don't know why FOX, NBC, and WB are so much more behind CBS in this regard. I would think that at least FOX and NBC would be at a level playing field with CBS. It wasn't until a few years ago that CBS had anything on that I wanted to watch anyways. As for the easiest way to get the HD signal out to the masses is cable, then I think they need to deregulate cable so that if I get pissed at the cable company I can switch to another provider. Since at the current time with current technology and current laws the sat companies will never be able to give us local HD feeds.

lvthunder, Great work in getting info from the stations!
CBS is way ahead of the HD game because most of their original content is recorded on 35mm film, which is an easy upconvert to HD. They have also been pushing ahead in going HD for many years (started in 99) based on that fact..
NBC would have had HD in Las Vegas much sooner except that their Primary market in New York was destroyed during 9/11. Since Las Vegas is not in the top 50 markets and already had equipment, everything was sent from here to NY to replace that market.
FOX and WB are not primary networks. They have a smaller market share and command less revenue than the "Big 3" so they have less money to purchase equipment. Since the "Big 3" have direct fiber to the COX MTC, maybe FOX does not have this in place, and relies on antenna reception to rebroadcast their signal on cable. This would explain why they can't just pass the signal to COX, whereas NBC can.
WB, being low power right now, does not have to meet the same requirements that everyone else does. Their mandate has some of the least specific and longest deadline requirements since they broadcast over a smaller area. Reading their email, I don't get the impression they are not going HD, just not right now. They are slowly working on getting the facilities to do it.
As far as de-regulating cable, you have the ability to get cable service from several providers in Las Vegas. The problem is, just like you see with all the telephone providers, their service (my opinion) is not up to par to the bigger companies. If you get pissed at COX, you do have alternatives. If you hate Sprint, you do have alternatives. The sat companies are another provider, but they CAN'T provide the highbandwidth needed for every market's HD channels. If you just got the network feeds (off sat), you would eventually put the local independant station out of business, because nobody would be watching. It's a catch-22 situation.
COX is the ONLY current provider (including sat) out of many in Las Vegas that can deliver the HD content from the local channels. Unless the sat companies launch new sattelites and offer more bandwidth or even higher compression ratios, they will NEVER be able to offer local HD channels.
Speaking tech here with assumptions: If sat could deliver the top 50 markets for the top 7 channels (ABC,NBC,CBS,PBS,FOX,WB,UPN,) that would be 350 HD channels. One HD channel takes up the space of about 8 SD digital channels, so you would need the same space as 2800 (2000 for only 5 locals) standard channels to bring in the top 50 markets top 7 stations. That's like 3 times as much bandwidth as they currently have just to get local HD in the top 50 markets of which Las Vegas is ranked 51. That just isn't going to happen anytime soon.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
The sat companies are another provider, but they CAN'T provide the highbandwidth needed for every market's HD channels. If you just got the network feeds (off sat), you would eventually put the local independant station out of business, because nobody would be watching. It's a catch-22 situation.
COX is the ONLY current provider (including sat) out of many in Las Vegas that can deliver the HD content from the local channels. Unless the sat companies launch new sattelites and offer more bandwidth or even higher compression ratios, they will NEVER be able to offer local HD channels.

Agreed, the only way that HD locals will ever come about via satellite is through the Ka band. But thats 5-10 years away. But it might take that long just for locals to switch over! But this is exactly why satellite companies are integrating 8VSB tuners into their receivers so that there isnt a pressing need for them to put HD lcoals on satellite. That way, all they need to do is have the big 4 in HD for distant networks (8 channels for east and west feeds).

Right now, Sat companies are in the lurch for HD in general. I think Dish network is going to try and go for mass-HD with their 211 STB, and HD channels on satellites where you dont have to install extra dishes. But theres a limit, they'll only end up with about 10-14 channels at most before they run out of room.

What are my other choices to Cox. I have not heard of any. I know Boulder City has 2 companies but I thought it was you either got one or the other, not both. As for getting sat companies to offer network HD feeds. I don't mean for just everyone. I just mean for the people can't get the HD station. For me since I can't get CBS or ABC with an attic mount antenna (still got to try moving it around some more, but I'm not hopeful) as I live too close to Black Mountain that the mountain blocks the antennas in Seven Hills. So if I get mad at Cox and decide to cancel I can't get HD from them as much as I would like to. As for the sat companies, at least for the time being I think they could somehow get the network HD feed then when it's not in primetime or during local commercial the STB would switch to the SD version. I don't think this is an impossible idea.

What are my other choices to Cox. I have not heard of any. Open up the yellowpages under Television-Cable, Catv & Satellite. Several providers are listed, although I no longer see some of the wireless companies there used to be when I moved out here.
. As for getting sat companies to offer network HD feeds. I don't mean for just everyone. I just mean for the people can't get the HD station.
It doesn't matter how many people actually get to view the channels, they still must be carried and take up the bandwidth. It could be 1 person or millions, either way the bandwidth is always in use.
As for the sat companies, at least for the time being I think they could somehow get the network HD feed then when it's not in primetime or during local commercial the STB would switch to the SD version. I don't think this is an impossible idea.
If the sat companies deliver an HD channel, they must keep that bandwidth in use forever. They can't "free up" the unused bandwidth during broadcast of SD content or commercials. Also the STB has nothing to do with how much bandwidth the sat is using. If you wanted it to somehow switch to SD during a commercial, the entire bandwidth is still in use. If an interstate is built for heavy 5:00PM traffic, it doesn't turn into a dirt road when nobody is using it; once built, it remains as a full use freeway reguardless of the number of users (or data) going down it.
If they (sat) only put in the big 4 networks as doormat suggests, they will have a total of 8 channels of HD (E & W feeds). This doesn't seem like much, but the sat providers are integrating 8VSB tuners so that they will NOT have to carry these channels and the extra bandwidth they take up. Instead they could take that bandwidth and use it for ESPN-HD, Cinemax-HD, HD-PPV, BRAVO-HD, and others thay you could NEVER get with an antenna.
The sat providers will never provide local HD channels. It is up to the end-user or homeowner to acquire those HD channels from their local sources, either through 8VSB, cable or other means.
They may someday provide national network HD feeds, but it's not a priority at this time and the networks are against this, because it eliminates the affiliates local revenue and in return, their revenue. The sat companies would have to pay an arm and a leg to make up for those losses, and potentially pass that on to the customers via an extra monthly charge.

vegggas

What I meant was that everyone would be watching lets say HDCSI. CSI comes on at exactly the same time here as it does in all of the west coast. What I was saying is everyone would get the HD channel and when the commericals or local content is on the channel gets remaped to the local SD stations on the spot beams. We would get routed to the Las Vegas commercials and LA would get the LA ones. That is what I was saying about the STB.

Impossible. You cant code receivers to switch like that. Ive discussed this with guys who know way more than me about STBs, and they say its really not possbile, not with the current hardware. Its a good idea but not quite fesiblle. Not now at least..

Not just impossible from the stb point, but also impossible from the point that the sats could never carry all the locals from every market available and the HD feeds too.
Since I dropped sat a while back before locals were available, how many local markets are currently available now? Top 50? Top 100? Top 200?
Las Vegas is ranked 51st, so if locals are available here, then theoretically it could be the top 100 markets.

vegggas

I think the sat companies will eventually come up with something. It maybe 5-10 years away but I think they will come up with something.

Did anyone have problems with there box yesterday. I came home to watch Alias and the picture said this box is not authorized. So after 20 minutes on hold with Cox (good thing I came home a little early) they turned it back on. Something must of happened because now the guide is back to the way it used to be with the guide staring 2 hours ahead and on channel 1, but also when ABC flips between the standard stuff and the network stuff the screen goes blank for a couple of seconds than pops up again.

lvthunder,
I still have not heard of anyone getting the guide to start at the current channel and current time (can anyone else out there confirm?). If not, maybe they set your box up as a test account oustide of the normal download parameters, and it eventually timed out. Test boxes are for specific purposes and last for specific short times only.
I guess you kept the box longer than the 30 day trial afterall.

As far as the sats coming up with something in 5-10 years, analog broadcast should be gone by then, freeing up even more bandwidth for cable. Take away 80 analog stations, give back 160 full HD in the same space:D

vegggas

vegggas
my onscreen guide is still the same ol thing too....
jb

No I'm keeping the box for the 3 months until the special I'm on is over. Then I will evaluate it again. It will be a hard decision if they force me to get Digital Cable. I think I should be able to get HD without having to get Digital Cable since there are exactly 0 channels on SD digital cable that I want. I am willing to get expanded basic because I know they put a filter on the line for basic cable.

Originally posted by vegggas
As far as the sats coming up with something in 5-10 years, analog broadcast should be gone by then, freeing up even more bandwidth for cable. Take away 80 analog stations, give back 160 full HD in the same space:D

Yea, satellite needs to get on Ka band development ASAP. I'm sure that some cable channels wont go HD until 2010-2015. They'll sit at 480i/p for a long while until HD equipmennt comes down in price. So it will be a while.

BTW: Anyone have recomendations on indoor, top-of-the-tv antennas to pick up HD? I was looking at some directional antennas. Just got a sweet deal on a Mits WS-55511 from Ultimate. $2700 with no payments/interest til 05, need an VHF/UHF antenna to pick up CBS so I can watch the final four in HD with 5.1 surround (that is if KLAS passes 5.1).

Originally posted by vegggas
Since I dropped sat a while back before locals were available, how many local markets are currently available now? Top 50? Top 100? Top 200?

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/LocalChannelsAction.do

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/locals/index.shtml

About 50-60 each. There are only 215 DMAs to carry, so technically, if the merger went through, all locals would have been carried by 2005 or so. (There is still one more satellite to launch, D7S which should add 20 more cities to D*s offering).

Just found out that COX is showing the ENTIRE NCAA tournament free to digital customers and 12 of those games will be in HD. The free bonus games channels for digital subscribers will be 333, 334, 335, 336. and the HD games should be on ch 701. More details later.

vegggas

Isn't 701 the Discovery HD channel.

Originally posted by lvthunder
Isn't 701 the Discovery HD channel. Discovery HD has always been on 700.
This would be the lineup:

Digital feeds from CBS for all digital customers
333 - NCAA 1
334 - NCAA 2
335 - NCAA 3
336 - NCAA 4

High Def channels
700 Discovery HD
701 Scheduled for NCAA tournament from KLAS HD feeds of 12 HD games including the championship game (all HD customers)
710 HBOWH
711 HBOEH
720 SHOWH
721 SHOEH
730 CBSHD Host to tournament CBS programming
731 PBSHD
732 ABCHD
733 NBCHD (if KVBC gets it together next week)

awesome news! nbc coming next week and all the tourney games!
-jb

Originally posted by jb1219
awesome news! nbc coming next week and all the tourney games!
-jb

Did i miss something? NBC is going digital next week?

So would the same thing be on 701 and 730?

Originally posted by lvthunder
So would the same thing be on 701 and 730?
Probably not. 730 is the CBS network feed and 701 will be the tournament feed for HD games. If both happen to be showing the same HD game at the same time, the 701 feed probably wont have have any comercials. Also, not all of the CBS games will be in HD, but all of the 701 feeds will be. 730 may show select regional games wheras 701 will show whatever current game is in HD reguardless of region.
Originally posted by schultzie73
Did i miss something? NBC is going digital next week?
Purely SPECULATION!!! This was based on the info provided by "hoopty" on Feb 19, 2003. Link back to page 12 post from hoopty (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1899347#post1899347) He had info from KVBC stating they were going to an ATSC within two weeks and working on getting an HD feed to COX ASAP. Tomorrow is two weeks...
Also I have seen the mail from COX advertising NBCHD as "coming soon".
I feel very confident they will send HD via fiber to COX any day now, but have no guarantee of what we will see until it is done.
[hoopty or lvthunder, could you send an email to your sources to get an update?]
vegggas

COX has almost completed (within days) the controller software to allow customers who do NOT want digital cable services, but want ONLY the local HD pass through feeds. This still requires a rental (for now) of the HD box, but without ANY of the digital services that you have to pay extra for. The box would default to a state just like analog that will not recieve any digital stations or services like the program guide (have to use the analog guide) except that it picks up the extended basic analog and channels 730-733 ONLY.
I think they will be decrypting the HD feeds and the HD box will be a "dumb" box (like aftermarket boxes and digital TV tuners) that decodes the Qam signal, but has no interactivity. No digital services means no return path communication signal back to the hub or main office. Digital features like the program guide, instant channel decryption (for subscription) and digital PPV purchase through the TV are not possible without the digital interactivity, so customers would not need to pay for those features.
This may explain some of the issues lvthunder was talking about with his box earlier. He had been trying to get just the local HD service for many months, and they may be configuring his box as it gets "dumbed" down and the conversion is complete.

vegggas

Oh yea!!! If they're descrambled, I can just plug my cable into the ANT-DTV and my Mits 55511 will descramble the QAM256 and pow! I'll have HD! No stinkin antenna!

Too bad I just ordered an antenna via buy.com. Doh!!

This is just a guess (unscrambled HD content) but it looks promising. You would still need to get a cable account and have the wiring in the home be able to pass the higher frequency and data HD requires.
It would be nice to see in a few short years all TV's in the house are digital and they all get HD without any extra stuff or antennas :D

vegggas

Yea, we already got digital cable so its no big deal from that aspect. It'll be nice if NBC starts up soon as speculated too... 4 HD nets... mmmmm

This makes me very happy. I wonder when they will let the CSR's know about this. This makes my decision about what to do for network HD a lot easier. I was leaning towards getting Canadian Satallite but if this is true I'll just stay with local HD from Cox. Too bad the new HDTiVo won't have a QAM tuner in it. I wonder if they will allow basic cable customers access to this or if it will be blocked with the filter. But this is great news.

Has anyone received confirmation that Cox will be carrying ESPN-HD?

I did't think the 2 Canadian Satellite providers Bell Express VU and
Star Choice reached Las Vegas or parts of the U.S.?

I was told that Bell Express VU reached all the way down to Florida. Somewhere I even saw the pointing angles here. I don't remember where though.

I will be moving to Vegas next month, and have a couple of questions for you knowledgeable folks.....

1) how hard is it to receive OTA HD in the area? The home I'm moving into is on the NW end of town.... highway 95 at Durango (just north of 215 & 95).

2) I see that Cox is offering HD broadcasts. Is there a way to time shift Cox HD channels?

I currently use a Mits D-VHS to time shift OTA, and don't want to give up the ability to time shift network HD if at all possible.

I am currently 58 miles from the antennas in LA, and receive OTA via a yagi UHF antenna in the attic. Since I *think* my new home is about 35 miles from the antennas in Vegas, do you think that a Silver Sensor antenna would be sufficient for OTA HD?

Thanks.

I use a silver sensor. My biggest issue is that it seems the spread between the two towers is a little too much, coz I cant seem to get all digital stations in with it pointed in a single direction.

Or maybe I need to spend more time fine tuning it.

I don't think the silver sensor will work. What I've read is that it is UHF only. Most of the HD stations here are the in VHF band not UHF. They are 2 (NBC Coming Soon), 7 (CBS), 9 (FOX), 11 (PBS), and 12 (ABC). There are not a lot of stations left.

I use the Radio Shack Bow. Works fine except I have move it slightly,
when moving back and forth between 8 & 13. For correct aiming
www.antennaweb.org/aw/stations.asp

So far I've been able to pick up CBS perfectly, and PBS, Fox, 22 and 29 intermittently (that is, I get them when I go and stand next to the antenna, when I go and sit down they break up). I'm sure its more of a directional issue vs band.

A quick update on KVBC-DT. Last night, we fired up our ATSC transmitter, on Channel 2, from 3:15am until about 8am. No audio or video was shown, but we did test a 10,000 watt signal for that period of time with a very good S/N ratio.

PLEASE do not expect an NBC signal in the next several days, as we still have bugs to work out. I'll keep you updated as significant events occur.

Also, talk of an HD passthrough to Cox is premature. It's quite likely, but certainly nothing to anticipate in the near future.

Originally posted by NBC SHIVA in LV


Also, talk of an HD passthrough to Cox is premature. It's quite likely, but certainly nothing to anticipate in the near future.


Bummer. I was hoping this was imminent.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. :) As is typical with any install, I'll have to experiment with antennas a bit and see what works.

Any comments on time shifting Cox HD?

Originally posted by lvthunder
I don't think the silver sensor will work. What I've read is that it is UHF only. Most of the HD stations here are the in VHF band not UHF. They are 2 (NBC Coming Soon), 7 (CBS), 9 (FOX), 11 (PBS), and 12 (ABC). There are not a lot of stations left.

Huh? I thought that all HD broadcasts were UHF? They all are in LA, and I thought that digital broadcasts nationwide were to be on the UHF band? Am I wrong?

From my understanding the band is exactly the same as analog TV. Channels 2-13 are VHF and 14 up is UHF. Also I don't think there is any way to timeshift Cox. The box has component out only. I also has a Coax Digital Audio port too.

I live in NW too and currently using TERK TV5 amplified indoor ant. So far so good, it picked up all the digital channels I wanted especially CBS, PBS and ABC (all 100%).
But lately, I have some problem with ABC though. I have to put my hand on it to watch ABC :(

The HD Channels in Vegas are in the VHF band. This is unusual and different from most other jurisdictions.

Originally posted by Tallen234
The HD Channels in Vegas are in the VHF band. This is unusual and different from most other jurisdictions.

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to check into VHF antennas after I move. :eek:

Originally posted by chelsea
I use the Radio Shack Bow. Works fine except I have move it slightly,
when moving back and forth between 8 & 13. For correct aiming
www.antennaweb.org/aw/stations.asp

Chelsea: 8 and 13 are on the same tower. You shouldn't have to move your antenna for those two. PBS (10-1 or 11) is coming off Black Mountain and you should have to move for that.

Paul E: with where you are going to be living, go to antennaweb.org and you will see about a 20 degree differentiation between the 2 HD towers in vegas. (It will also save you time pointing, just get out the compass and go). So, a better multi-directional antenna would be best.

Trevor_2k
-----------------
I don't live in Vegas anymore, I just wish I did. =)

Ok, it's been three days and no one has posted on this thread. SO, I will rejuvenate it. It is my understanding that Cox will have a "dedicated" CBS channel for HD on the tourney coverage. If/when we go to war in Iraq, has there been any talk about keeping the CBS "back channels" to the tournament. I don't mean to be insensitive, but if it happens I will have two tv's going and I know we will all need a break from the war coverage.

Well remember that Cox Digicable customers get all games for free anyways. It wouldnt surprise me if Cox just sets up another channel (for 4 total) for the games and then ch 8 for the war coverage. And there is still the HD channel for showing the HD games in the tourney. I'm sure CBS wont stop televising all the games if the war starts (I would assume that lots of cable companies have the same type of deal Cox has to show all the games). And I agree, being able to watch basketball would be a needed diversion from the war coverage.

Anybody having video problems with OTA 8-01?
I am getting video freezing and breakup about every ten seconds.
Signal strength is 88% on Dish 6000 8VSB.

Is there any more word on not having to have digital cable to get the HD stations via Cox.

Been gone awhile, so, I'll try to expand on a few things...

CBS, KLAS, the tourny, and a possible war... The information has been leaked that local KLAS is giving COX the 5 full feeds for the Tourny. That's four digital and one HD channel - NOT including the local CBS analog and Digital stations. If CBS if forced to show war coverage, then the LOCAL digital and analog stations may have to show the news, but the tourny feeds will most likely be unaffected by local decision. Without surmising the war effort and political mumbo-jumbo, there could be repercussions on the actual tourny if war breaks out, that could lead to delays and possible missed games. Hey, we missed a week of football after 9/11, if something bad were to happen, sentiment will follow the war, not basketball.

Video Problems - KLAS (or CBS national feed) has been freezing up once in a while lately. Don't have any info, but it is affecting the OTA and their feed to COX so your equipment should not be blamed.

HD locals without Digital service on COX - I heard there was an internal service code for this feature as soon as it rolls out. I have not heard the latest, but it may be on the backburner until the tourny is over. It is/was being tested for a release, but I would keep quiet for now. If they decide to disable the digital boxes before the tourny, then you are S.O.L. getting the free tournament package and HD channel. There is no "al la cart" or ordering of the tourny, it's just free to ALL DIGITAL SUBSCRIBERS (hint hint). The "basic", "extended basic", "locals package" or whatever it will be called will NOT get DIGITAL services or have a Digital subscription to enable this service, just local HD. The more they try to push it before a war breaks out and a tourny kicks off, the better the chance of getting your box deauthorized and having to wait on hold with customer support while you miss the game.

Better updates to follow as I catch up on work, emails, rumors and HD info.
vegggas

We're happy to announce that Las Vegas' NBC affiliate, Sunbelt Communication's KVBC is now available on Channel 3 (NTSC) AND Channel 2 (ATSC).

Viewers have already contacted us, complimenting the clean signal we're broadcasting from atop Black Mountain overlooking Henderson.

Our signal will be in standard definition for the near future, as budgeting for and selection of HD-capable studio/transmitter link equipment continues.

Looks like KLAS-DT has fixed the 3 day problem of video freezing.

Just checked out KVBC-DT channel 2-01.
It has a nasty herringbone pattern of grain.
KLAS-DT SD is far superior to KVBC-DT SD when comparing the national news.

Tourney - As surmised, the NCAA has looked into the possiblity of postponing the first few rounds of the games if needed and the possibility of moving network feeds around to cover news on OTA and the games on cable only channels. Separate Digital feeds are still not considered to be in danger of being lost, except in the case of postponed games.
Here is the official ESPN link. ESPN - Consideration of postponment of NCAA games (http://espn.go.com/ncb/news/2003/0317/1525314.html )


NBC is Digital! YAY! Lets hope the transition to HD is coming along smoothly and will be available sooner than later.
NOTE: Is there anybody here with an ANALOG Pioneer cable box with the RF output on Ch2 being affected by the new signal? There were some concerns about this being a problem earlier, and I just wondered if it is indeed an issue or not. What about big screen RPTV users tuning to analog Ch2 on their sets tuner (typically low shielding), any problems there? My sets look ok while viewing the analog feed, so I am not having any of the problems with interference like ch 7 or 11 had.

vegggas

Thanks for the update Shiva. Anyword on the Cox feed?

I am currently using DirecTV to obtain the majority of the HD content I watch, but I would like to be able to pick up the local Las Vegas network feeds as well. I have tried using the Terk 55 indoor/outdoor antenna with some success. I am able to pick up most of the local stations with different positioning of the antenna with varying signal strength from 28 to 70+. The only station I have not been able to get any signal from is KLAS (CBS) channel 8-1. This is the local station I want the most with their abundance of HD content.

Does anyone have any ideas? I am in the northwest part of town. I haven't tried mounting my Terk 55 antenna outside. Would that improve the reception of these stations? What level of signal strength is considered adequate to receive a station without intermittent signal loss? Is there a method to finding the optimal location of a fixed antenna to ensure reception of the most stations?

Thanks for everyone's contributions to this link. I have found this to be the best source of local HDTV information.

taxman, i'm in nw too and also using terk tv5 indoor. it picked up all the digital channels real good. cbs 8-1 signal strengh lately always 100%

OK, so all the games are back on again. The 11:00 news on KLAS once again confirmed that ALL games from ALL regions will be available through COX on their 5 temporary digital stations. The HD feed will also be on a dedicated HD only channel and it may also show on the OTA KLAS-DT channel if war coverage is not mandated.

vegggas

So I hooked up my DTV input to the coax line that went into my digital cable box, no unscrambled HD channels that I saw. :( Though, I did find some unscrambled channels (92.01 through 92.10), so I know its completely possible for them to send stuff w/o encryption.

How Is Your Reception Of KVBV-DT 2.1/3.1?

I'm southwest with a wide open view of Black Mtn. My signal with a R.S.
bow gives me a bleeding of KVBC on the top of screen and 29.1/33.1 KFBT-DT on the bottom. I can't get the signal to stay constant.

Originally posted by doormat
So I hooked up my DTV input to the coax line that went into my digital cable box, no unscrambled HD channels that I saw. :( Though, I did find some unscrambled channels (92.01 through 92.10), so I know its completely possible for them to send stuff w/o encryption.

ive tried this as well. didnt get anything. wish there was a way to utilize the signal with my built in tuner.

Looks like we are getting 3 digital feeds (COX) on 333 - 335 and HD tomorow. HD may be on CBS 730 only or as reported before, a separate HD channel, but we will not know until it is shown. The NCAA2 channel is showing the same game as CBS, so for now, enjoy three separate feeds.

Is anyone picking up the other feeds OTA or is it only on cable?

vegggas

Originally posted by chelsea
How Is Your Reception Of KVBV-DT 2.1/3.1?

I'm southwest with a wide open view of Black Mtn. My signal with a R.S.
bow gives me a bleeding of KVBC on the top of screen and 29.1/33.1 KFBT-DT on the bottom. I can't get the signal to stay constant.

Actually, KVBC has the highest signal strength (88) I get of all the digital channels.

NCAA in HD were terrific on OTA 8-1. I see by their commercial that Masters Golf Tourney also in HD. I note that the RJ does not even mention digital or HD in the Sunday TV magazine. Many people (including some of my friends) didn't realize any HD available until I told them!!! Perhaps thats part of our problem of lack of HD programming and feet dragging by the stations.

I just noticed that Cox digital has a new channel....

NBC D on channel 123. The picture quality is much better than analog channel 3. Although the audio is only working on the left channel. This is not a HD feed with the HD box, this is a standard digital channel on the SA2000 Explorer.

Is Cox possibly planning a digital simulcast of the locals? That would be sweet.

Anyone have any more info?

I hooked up the OTA digital tuner (SIR T-150) to see what was now "out there" and compare cable feeds to OTA feeds. First, I compared feeds from the tuner using RGB. RGB had just a bit better "depth" and "sharpness" on all stations. I then compared the component output, which matched the output of the SA3100, IMHO, exactly. Component is not bad, just seemed softer than RGB. This makes sense as Component has less bandwidth due to signal derivation from RGB and RGB contains complete information from all three channels.

NBC Ch 2, eventually Ch 733 - Currently only available OTA as SD. Looks about the same as analog channel on cable, but free from ingress issues (ghosting). Good clean picture when I was testing with no noticable issues. This will be on cable channel 733 when it eventually goes HD and sends that signal to COX.
EDIT added info: NBC D is on cable Ch 123. Looks like a simulcast digital feed until they go HD. This could open the door to other stations offering digital simulcast.

FOX Ch 9 (came up as 5)- Currently only available OTA as SD. Looks about the same as analog channel on cable, but free from ingress issues (ghosting). Very soft picture and no current plans for HD content or broadcast. Cox would not carry this unless they went to a higher signal quality, as it offers no improvment over analog other than signal isolation, and is not in HD.

CBS Ch 7, Ch 730- OTA looks the same as cable, but there is no NCAA package for CBS OTA simulcast. The NCAA feed is sent to COX for distribution on 333 -335 and is the only available local option other than a $50 fee from Sat. The HD games are shown on CBS-HD on both OTA and Cable 730. The rumored extra channel for HD only content on 701 seems to not be needed right now, since it appears all HD games will be on CBS and would be duplicated. If an HD game is not carried locally on CBS, there is still a possibility of an insertion at 701 to show those games. Most primetime non-reality or news shows are good quality HD. Sports events are shown in true HD when available.

PBS Ch 11, Ch 731 - OTA looks the the same as cable. TRUE HD - Although it is a contious loop of the national feed.

ABC 12, 732 - OTA looks the same as cable, however, you also get the secondary SD version OTA in digital in case you don't have HD. Broadcast in 720p. Most primetime non-reality or news shows are decent quality HD. Sports events are shown in true HD when available.

Univision Ch 16 - Currently only available OTA as SD. Looks the same as analog channel on cable. No known plans to carry on COX since there is no improvement in signal quality and is not HD.

WB Ch 22- Currently only available OTA as SD. Looks the same as analog channel on cable. No known plans to carry on COX since there is no improvement in signal quality and is not HD.

KFBT Ch 29- Currently only available OTA as SD. Looks the same as analog channel on cable. No known plans to carry on COX since there is no improvement in signal quality and is not HD.

Telemundo Ch 40 - Currently only available OTA as SD. Unable to pick up with my antenna. No known plans to carry on COX since there is no improvement in signal quality and is not HD.

Discovery HD Theater Ch 700 - Cable Only. Looks great! Extra $5.00 charge per month. Now has movies, and is increasing their lineup selection.

HBOEHD and HBOWHD Ch 710, 711 Cable Only - Good quality upconverts and some original programming, but they do not usually use the original format. Instead they fill the entire 16x9 screen reguardless of format. Included free with standard HBO subscription.

SHOEHD and SHOWHD Ch 720, 721 Cable Only - They typically use the Original Aspect Ratio, so 2.35 movies are shown in their correct aspect. They have broadcast boxing events that look great in HD and are planning on many more live events. Included free with standard SHO subscription.
NOTE that SHO East is not available in the lineup anywhere else other than the HD format so users get an "extra" channelwith HD.

No comments heard on future programming such as ESPNHD, CINEMAX, or others (doen not mean they are not available). HDNET was rumored, but unless you were a partner with Mark Cuban, the pricing was VERY high. My opinion is that the pricing would have to come down before we see it in "non partnered" cable systems.

vegggas

Originally posted by Demodave
NBC D on channel 123. The picture quality is much better than analog channel 3. Although the audio is only working on the left channel. This is not a HD feed with the HD box, this is a standard digital channel on the SA2000 Explorer.
I second the PQ statement. My question, is it possible (for me or Cox) to remap that channel overtop ch 3, so that when i hit "003" it goes to the digitial version of the channel.

It would be nice to have all the digital channels (HD or not) in digital format (and unscrambled) so that I could hook the coax into my DTV antenna and get digital locals. And ditch this funny antenna. Who knows, this could be the first step.

Edit: Its in the clear on 82.11 for all of those who have a digital tuner capable of demoduating QAM 256.

Is it in the guide on 123. I couldn't get it.

Cox better get ESPN-HD right out of the box. Otherwise I will jump off a cliff. They don't want that blood on their hands!

What is the latest on whether Cox will be offering a subscription to only the HD channels without basic or digital cable service? I am happy with my satellite service w/TIVO and am only interested in the locals through Cox. Does anyone know if Cox currenty offers, or will offer, a subscription to just the HD channels? Thanks.

Vegggas says that Cox is working on HD Locals without Digital Cable service. My guess (not having any inside information) is that they will require expanded basic to get the HD channels. I hope I'm wrong with that. As far as EPSN goes. It would surprise me if Cox gets ESPN-HD. I read this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=241077&highlight=Cox


Cox CEO: Cable companies need ‘fundamental change’

By_ ANDY BERNSTEIN Staff writer

Cox Communications CEO Jim Robbins offered some of his most pointed words yet to sports programmers, calling for "fundamental change" in the relationship between networks, media properties and cable companies.

Robbins
In an interview following a private address to industry leaders at the SportsBusiness Journal/Octagon World Congress of Sports in New York, Robbins said Cox is determined to say no to what he views as unreasonable rate-hike demands from the likes of ESPN and regional sports networks.

"We've sat back for years and years and just taken it, and we can't take it anymore," said Robbins, who heads the nation's fourth-largest cable company, and one of the most successful.

He cited ESPN in particular, which has a 20 percent annual rate hike written into all its cable distribution deals. Cox's agreement expires in the spring of 2004 and Robbins said that if Cox agrees to a similar deal, "we don't have a business anymore."

He said ESPN President George Bodenheimer is already well aware of Cox's intention to "take a pretty tough line" in those negotiations.

The warning from Robbins went beyond just a threat not to carry some sports networks.

As long as programmers put the squeeze on cable operators, he said, the cable companies will try to cut them out of the equation by distributing sports directly to consumers. Cox has already done that with the successful Channel 4 in San Diego, which carries baseball's Padres, and launched its own regional sports network in New Orleans last fall.
------
By the way, Cox refuses to let MLB Extra Innings pick up its Padres games (130+ this year) to keep them off DirecTV and Dish. The same with Comcast in Philly.

No new info, but some info and speculation anyway...

HD channel package - I do not forsee an HD only channel package. What I heard and read was the current HD converters would be downgraded to ONLY pick up the digital HD locals offered in the 700's . Everything elses would be analog signal up to 79 or something.
This means that all other digital services would be turned off, like the program guide and all other digital channels. I speculate that if you wanted DiscHD added, you would have to get the digital package first.
The basic cable package you may already have is capped off to not allow frequencies above ch 17 I think. To keep this same service and add the HD channels, would require the removal of the filter, which effectively moves you up to standard analog service.
So my guess today is that you would need standard service and the rental of the HD box as a minmum package. This would satify the mandate of the FCC for local transmission. As far as testing clear to air channels on digital quam tuners, it seems that only Mitsubishi is doing a good job of pulling the signal, and it's possible COX would not want to advertise "no other equipment needed" when a customer's tv is not syncing correctly.

ESPNHD - No news other than what lvthunder submitted. I had read that article earlier and felt dismayed, thinking it will not happen for a while. This should happen on the corporate level and not local, so if a deal is worked out, it will be everywhere COX has HD. This weekend may bring news or announcments with promotions from retailers. We have to wait and see.

NBC D on 123 - Yes it is there, and with only the left channel audio. It's a start, but we could see a complete local digital (non HD) local lineup in the near future for a minimal fee, just like the basic package, but they would have to move around some lower channels to get around the current basic lineup and still pass the signal.
To map the digital signal on to channel three would require the removal of the analog broadcast of channel 3. On cable, this would require every household to have a digital converter, so it will be a while.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
No new info, but some info and speculation anyway...


As far as testing clear to air channels on digital quam tuners, it seems that only Mitsubishi is doing a good job of pulling the signal, and it's possible COX would not want to advertise "no other equipment needed" when a customer's tv is not syncing correctly.


vegggas

i have a mitsubishi tv with a built in qam tuner and was wondering how i get the HD channels through the cable line. ive tried it before and it jammed my tv. am i suppose to just plug the coax into the ant. input? also, what channel would i be looking for since the HD channels are on 700 something and the tuner does not go up that high?
any help would be appreciated.

Well, if Direct TV and Cox do not offer ESPN-HD, hopefully that will put some pressure on ESPN/ABC to back off their demands somewhat. Given that Discovery HD is $5, I would pay that for ESPN-HD. That works out to $60 a year. Not that much for HD. However, I can definately see Cox abusing this by offering a per channel fee each time something turns into HD. So, what about $10 for the HD Tier?

Originally posted by vegggas
No new info, but some info and speculation anyway...

NBC D on 123 - Yes it is there, and with only the left channel audio. It's a start, but we could see a complete local digital (non HD) local lineup in the near future for a minimal fee, just like the basic package, but they would have to move around some lower channels to get around the current basic lineup and still pass the signal.
To map the digital signal on to channel three would require the removal of the analog broadcast of channel 3. On cable, this would require every household to have a digital converter, so it will be a while.

You sure there is no way they can update the firmware of the box to map digitial channels over analog. Not actually replace the signal, but write some code to redirect "003" to 123, etc.

Hopefully they dont scramble digital locals. I would think they get enough money out of me with analog + digital, they dont need any more.

Originally posted by riyatch
i have a mitsubishi tv with a built in qam tuner and was wondering how i get the HD channels through the cable line. ive tried it before and it jammed my tv. am i suppose to just plug the coax into the ant. input? also, what channel would i be looking for since the HD channels are on 700 something and the tuner does not go up that high?
any help would be appreciated.

You cant get Cox's HD channels, because they're scrambled. There are some Cox Digital Cable SD channels that arent scrabled (PPV Preview, etc) that you can use to verify if your qam tuner is operating.

1. Plug the coax into the DTV antenna.
2. Go to the menu system, pick the anetnna item.
3. Pick DTV, then select Cable (NOT cable HRC) to program your tv. It will take a good 10-15 minutes to go through all 135 channels.
4. Once its done, go through and check all the channels. Most of them are scrambled. Type in "082 11" for 82.11 and see if you get NBC digital. I forgot which one the PPV preview and PPV Sports preview are.

Originally posted by Tallen234
Well, if Direct TV and Cox do not offer ESPN-HD, hopefully that will put some pressure on ESPN/ABC to back off their demands somewhat. Given that Discovery HD is $5, I would pay that for ESPN-HD. That works out to $60 a year. Not that much for HD. However, I can definately see Cox abusing this by offering a per channel fee each time something turns into HD. So, what about $10 for the HD Tier?

Luckily, Discovery and Cox are partners so that they (discovery) sell each subscriber only $5, instead of the $8 other carriers have to pay. The content provider, like Discovery or ESPN mandates the price for each subscriber, not the carrier. Also, the carriers have to pay a royalty fee to even offer it in their lineup. This means ESPN would make money off COX for providing the channel on top of every subscriber who orders it. Cox would make very little, probably under $0.50 for every customer, but would make revenue on other services. See lvthunder's earlier thread about COX CEO complaints. I have a whole other thread ranting about this very topic in the programming forum.

Doormat - Good explanation about the qam tuner. I will add that the reason everyone sees different numbers is because I think your tuners are showing 135 "full Channels" of 6Mhz each. Each 6Mhz channel can easily carry 16 or so sd digital stations so you could possibly tune over 2000 channels. NBC Digital at 82.11 at 256qam would be at approximately 573Mhz. Also, the frequency of the channels in digital cable do not follow the channel numbers. So a channel number IS mapped to a frequency for that particular qam tuner, but the qam tuners start above the analog frequencies and analog has reserves for the lower channels. As far as mapping the 123 channel over analog #3, I guess it could be done, but it would have to unreserve all of the analog channels and be a global config to all of the boxes.
vegggas

As for mapping the digital channels over the analog ones. I would think that Cox would like to do that. That could be another reason for a person to upgrade to digital cable. You don't need to have an HDTV to watch a local digital channel like NBC is right now anyways. I would like to think that Cox would offer the best (picture quality and sound) version that they can.

Originally posted by doormat
You cant get Cox's HD channels, because they're scrambled. There are some Cox Digital Cable SD channels that arent scrabled (PPV Preview, etc) that you can use to verify if your qam tuner is operating.

1. Plug the coax into the DTV antenna.
2. Go to the menu system, pick the anetnna item.
3. Pick DTV, then select Cable (NOT cable HRC) to program your tv. It will take a good 10-15 minutes to go through all 135 channels.
4. Once its done, go through and check all the channels. Most of them are scrambled. Type in "082 11" for 82.11 and see if you get NBC digital. I forgot which one the PPV preview and PPV Sports preview are.

thanks for the explanation. ill try that.

Is there any chance cox subscribers will get any of the hd nba playoff games which are going to be on nbatv?

Quick question: Is the feed on Channel 333 different from that on Channel 8? I know that local 8 is showing the AZ game at 4:00. I really want to see the Kentucky game. It would make sense for 333 to show the other feed, but I am leary. thx.

According to the thread in the programming forum Cox is signed up for ESPN-HD.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=242195

Official news for Cox Las Vegas subscribers from the actual internal release quote:
March 28th, 2003
We are pleased to announce on Sunday, March 30 ESPN HD will be added to our High Definition lineup! Cox Communications of Las Vegas will be one of the first cable systems in the Country to offer ESPN HD! As of this morning, neither DirecTV or Dish Network have announced their addition of this new channel, making our competitive advantage even better!

ESPN HD will be carried on channel 705 and offered via two options:
· We will sell it as a single channel for $5.00/month.
· It will also be offered in a tier with Discovery HD for $6.99/month.

The channel will launch on Sunday at 3:30 p.m. with the first ever High Definition broadcast of Sportscenter. FOR THE FIRST FEW DAYS ESPN HD WILL BE OFFERED FREE TO COX HIGH DEFINITION CUSTOMERS! Until the ESPN HD codes are built in ICOMS, information for customers interested in ordering the channel will be tracked using the following form ********.

ESPN HD programming highlights for the upcoming 12 months will include 100 live telecasts of Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association (NBA), National Football League (NFL) and the National Hockey league (NHL).

ESPN HD and TV Azteca (being added on April 1 to channel 63) are just the most recent examples of the Cox commitment to add new and relevant programming for our customers.


As usual, when we hear NO early news from COX, it usually means a good thing, and this time they didn't dissapoint.
I had been hearing rumors floating around, but nothing concrete until now. With all the bad press, it made it look like we were not going to get it, but it's now official.
ENJOY!!!!

vegggas

Channel.....Format.....Station
123........... Digital.....NBC D
700........... HDTV......DiscoveryHD
705........... HDTV......ESPNHD
710........... HDTV......HBOEHD
711........... HDTV......HBOWHD
720........... HDTV......SHOEHD
721........... HDTV......SHOWHD
730........... HDTV......CBS/DTV
731........... HDTV......PBS/DTV
732........... HDTV......ABC/DTV
733???...... HDTV?....NBC [local is not HD yet, but broadcasting digital on 123]

Have we got it good or what???

vegggas

Fantastic!!!! Can't wait for the sunday night baseball game now!

Lucky *******s ;)

Stuck in Salt Lake with Comcast :(

Michael.

All this and March madness for free too!
Can it get any better than this?
The only thing we don't have is HDnet... ... ...
Hmmm...
Hmmmmm...
I wonder...
Cox has not said anything about HDnet either...
Just wishful thinking, (my own) but imagine the possibilities...

How many are going to subscribe? Who already has Discovery and will add ESPN? Who will get both that didn't have it before? The new movies on DscHD are looking really good... Who is throwing the dish on the ground and stomping on it ('ll have to post a pic of my dish on the ground with rain splattered sand all over it:D since it's never going to be hooked up again now...

Cable bandwidth rules!
(flame on)

vegggas

i have Discovery and will be adding ESPNHD asap.
Is HDNet even a possibility at this point?

Any news on COX adding VOD - Video On Demand (also called EOD - Entertainment On Demand)? I had heard that COx is beta testing it right now and should release it the general public on April 1st. But I haven't heard any more about it.

The release date of EOD is the first week of April in select hubs. All digital subscribers in the upgraded hub areas should have already recieved the letter explaining how to use the system.
I think the following hubs are almost ready or will be ready within the next month: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 11 and 15.
The easiest way to see what hub you are in is to use the diagnostic mode on your digital cable box and go to page 4. At the bottom of the page on the left side it says "HUB ID:" and the number of your Hub.
To get into the diagnostic mode: Press and hold the center navigation button located on the front of the actual box for 3-5 seconds until the mail light flashes or comes on. Then press the "Info" key. You should now see status info. Use the "Page Up" and "Page Down" button to scan through the pages. Press "Exit" to exit.

I'll post more definitive schedules for all hubs when I get the updated timetables for my area.

vegggas

After going into diagnostics mode (thanks vegggas I've always wanted to get there after I saw the cable guy looking there) I found that all of the HD channels say subscription (which I take to mean encrypted) while NBCD (Ch 123) says Free to Air (which makes me think unencrypted). I wonder when Cox is going to unencrypted the other channels. Maybe they are using NBC to test the channels being unencytped. It makes sense since it is in the 100 range where all of the info channels are.

In regards to EPSN. How long is it going to be free for.

The subscription HD channels are just that. You need a sub to HBO to get the HBOHD, same with SHOHD. You need a sub for DiscHD too. The locals are included free and are a part of any HD sub package. This way, non HD cable boxes will not get locked up trying to access the HD content on the qam tuner. I just found out the technical reason when inquiring about the new config for locals only. Try tuning a non HD box to 730 and it will display the " to order service.." screen so that it doesn't try to lock onto the qam modulator, which it will do, and then lock up trying to decode the data and need a hard reboot (limitation of older boxes like SA2000 and SA2100 that are in 99% of digital homes).
The locals will be available soon as stated earlier. The 3100HD box will be used, but all other digital channels will be unavailable, thus making the box an analog reciever with the ability to decode just 730 -733. This way, you could get the locals without having a digital sub and just pay for standard service(see earlier post about that explanation). Also, as stated earlier, to get locals as completely clear to air in a basic package, they would have to reside in the lower frequencies where the entire spectrum is already in use for those pesky 99% of users who watch analog channels from 2 - 17 either on a box, TV or VCR. I know not many people watch the community and shopping channels, but those and analog locals must reside in the most basic package that can be picked up by a TV manufactured in 1950. Until Digital is standard, they must keep grandma's B&W TV working without extra cost and get what the community considers a fair and equivelent antenna package (yes, shopping is available OTA).
As for NBC Digital, that is not an HD channel, so ALL digital converters can safely view the content without getting jammed, so it goes out as clear to air for all recievers. Even on sat, there are no clear to air HD channels. Any HD channel requires a subscription to something before it can be viewed, and then you get a unique ID and passcode to enable that channel on your reciever. Sat is a push technology (everything is beamed, including all id's and decryption codes) and cable is a pull technology (equipment sends a request to view a channel and get a decryption key in real time), they are similar, but work in exact opposite ways.

ESPNHD for free - The only info I have is what was mailed to me on Friday and exactly quoted in what I posted. The say it's free until they work up the codes in the computer, which probably takes a few days.

vegggas

T minus 14.5 hours till ESPNHD launch.
Hmmmm... ESPNHD VS WrestleMania. I bet WrestleMania gets a bigger share of viewers on Sunday... Maybe next year it will be in HD too, I'll have to talk to VinnyMac about that one:D

just rambling...

vegggas

So in other words, HD data will never be in the clear?? That sucks, what am I supposed to do with this qam demodulator in my tv??

I wouldn't say never...
Some things to consider.
Does your qam tuner decode regular clear to air digital cable or is your qam tuner HD compatible too? The previous Mits set I was looking at had a new digital qam tuner and an ATSC 8VSB tuner for HD, thus making it unable to decode HD qam signals. That was over a year ago, so things may have changed and merged (look in the manual and verify please - thx)
If it decodes regular digital qam signals, then that was what it was intended to do. You are now ready for future basic digital programming. However at this time most digital signals are part of a subscription package. Thus a subscriber to "standard" analog would not be able to view "digital" signals, except NBC D. Eventually there should be a "basic" digital lineup. Whether that includes HD or not remains to be seen.

vegggas

ESPNH is now in the lineup on 705 without any signal. Broadcast starts at 3:30 Vegas time.
Looking through the guide, it looks like it mirrors the standard ESPN on 30. I expected this, but it would be nice to see something other than sportscenter a thousand times. I wonder if the upconverted SD will be like the ABC zoomed pics or a fullscreen image that looks decent?

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
I wouldn't say never...
Some things to consider.
Does your qam tuner decode regular clear to air digital cable or is your qam tuner HD compatible too? Last I checked the book, it can do any digital MPEG2 signal modulated using qam256 or 8VSB. No specification on SD vs HD.

WOW....espn-hd looks fantastic! This will be the best $2 a month i've ever spent....

i'm watching the game now...i wonder how the upconverted regular espn stuff will look.
-jb

Where did it go. It's 8:22 and I just got home. Is it only going to be visible when there is HD content. Also isn't it against the law to force you to buy Digital Cable to be able to buy ESPN-HD. It is called buy through.

ESPNHD launch is a success! The game looked HD terrific.
lvthunder, Channel 705 is still there and showing upconverted material for sportscenter after the HD game was broadcast. The channel should be available 24/7 and mirror the standard ESPN broadcast, but upconverted for non-HD matrerial in 16x9 format. This is free (for now) for all digital customers. I hope you are getting it, but if not, maybe COX has granted your wish and only given you the locals with analog service...
As far as laws for HDTV, there is no buy through for HD pay services. If you are not a digital customer, then you wouldn't get digital services. You are only granted digital acess rights if you are paying for digital services. If you order HBO on analog only (1 analog ch), you do not get digital HBO (11 digital+1 analog+1HD chs), unless you are a digital customer.
Think of cell phone use a few years ago. You had analog plans and then digital plans. You couldn't decide to make selected calls on a digital network if you were on an analog plan. If you chose to get the digital service, it was offered wherever it was available. If you had analog, then you did not benefit from those digital services until you paid to become a digital subscriber.
Also, as a sat user, you are getting a digital only feed from the sat, they do not provide any Analog signals. This requires a digital STB for each TV. The cable gives you an analog feed for all TV's without an STB, for a minimum price. To ADD extra digital services is an extra charge.

vegggas

They better not of giving me just the local HD since I am paying for everything else. Maybe I'll try to reboot the box. As for passthru I read it as they couldn't make you purchase a more expensive tier to be able to purchase premium services. The example used in the thread I was reading used VOD as an example. I guess this law only went into effect last October.

ESPN-HD Looked Great! Almost a bit too great....do we really want to see Peter Gammons in HD?

Also, for you Vegas folks, Eliab from Avical.com is going to be in town the week of April 8-16. He is supposed to be one of the best calibrators around. I am having him calibrate my TV.

It's been 5 days since the last post, so I wanted to reinvigorate this thread.

Any word on NBC HDTV being fed to Cox before firing up an new transmitter?

is there any way of seeing what programing will be in had on espn?
not quite sure if i want to pay cox anymore money since i already get the locals from my tuner.

Here is a link to HDTV Programming. Be aware, that during football season all of the Sunday Night games will be in HD. That alone would be worth it!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164671

I found this announcement on the SA website. Hopefully Cox will get these new boxes real soon.

http://www.sciatl.com/news/03Apr07-3.htm

Toby

Originally posted by maldoman
I found this announcement on the SA website. Hopefully Cox will get these new boxes real soon.

http://www.sciatl.com/news/03Apr07-3.htm

Toby

Yea reallly,

And, two options will be available for copy protection interfaces between the set-top and the HDTV or other consumer electronics equipment – DVI with HDCP and 1394 with 5C (NCTA/CEA Plug and Play requirements).

It would be great to just be able to use firewire... too bad they dont say if its HAVi compatible...

Any word on whether or not Cox is going to be showing the USA HD feed for the Masters on Thur or Friday?

Is anyone else's ABCHD on Cox screwed up during Alias. I getting a widescreen picture squished into a 4X3 picture size? Also I'm not getting 5.1 sound like I should be. Does anyone know if this is ABC's problem or Cox's problem?

lvthunder,

I didn't catch Alias last night as it was a re-run. Perhaps that had something to do with it?

Originally posted by doormat
Yea reallly,

And, two options will be available for copy protection interfaces between the set-top and the HDTV or other consumer electronics equipment – DVI with HDCP and 1394 with 5C (NCTA/CEA Plug and Play requirements).

It would be great to just be able to use firewire... too bad they dont say if its HAVi compatible...

I sent Cox an email asking if they would be ordering any of these. They sent me back a response (which I deleted already, sorry) that basically said they always strive to provide the best equipment for their customers, blah, blah, blah.....but currently they don't have any new HD receivers, and that if they get anything new, customers will be notified somehow. Something like that.

Is anyone else's ABCHD on Cox screwed up during Alias. I getting a widescreen picture squished into a 4X3 picture size? Also I'm not getting 5.1 sound like I should be. Does anyone know if this is ABC's problem or Cox's problem? COX retransmits whatever is given to them onto a QAM carrier. They do not have the capability or equipment to change, modify or alter the broadcasters signal in any way. What you see on cable is what you would see OTA barring any signal loss issues like mountains being in the way:p

Re: SA3250HD
I sent Cox an email asking if they would be ordering any of these. They sent me back a response (which I deleted already, sorry) that basically said they always strive to provide the best equipment for their customers, blah, blah, blah... This could go a few ways... I heard they were almost out of the 5000 original 3100HD boxes, so they could buy more (new or old??) - OR - They are still waiting for Pioneer to release their HDPVR box this year and will shift back to Pioneer (heard whoever actually releases them gets a hefty contract from COX). Alternatively, the market share of boxes is being shifted back to the consumer. Best Buy and Circuit City are selling HD Digital cable boxes in several COX markets, including Oklahoma City and Phoenix. They may forgo the expenditure ($2.5 MIL last year[5000*500]) and let the retail market purchase their own equipment. Current sales of digital cable boxes go for around $500. We will have to wait and see.
New news:
Looks like NBC is testing the HD signal. Once it is established we will get NBC HD OTA and then it's feed to COX on 733. It would be interesting if NBCSHIVA or another local worker would mention upcoming testing times (3:00 AM?)even if they are low power tests.
It's been heard CBS will have an SD digital signal real soon. Following ABC and NBC, as well as FOX, WB, UPN and all the other local stations with digital non-HD signals. Once CBS is on board, it's just a few steps away from seeing an all (or nearly all) digital cable lineup available. The NBCD on 123 is a good test for this argument. At my house, they (analog vs digital)look virtually identical, but older homes with poor wiring, different parts of the valley (strong ingress from OTA signal) and multiple amped long runs (older fringe areas - i.e. towards boulder city) suffer the worst. Those with poor analog reception could benefit from "digital to the box" quality. Since analog will still be available, "digital" subs could have the entire lineup mapped over the analog numbers if analog is completely covered over. The downside is that it would a eat a LOT of bandwidth, perhaps limiting future new HD channels until some or most of the analog channels are removed. It would be a toss up that HD may lose - Deliver all digital content to 500,000 customers or deliver a new HD channel to 5000.
Once again it is all speculation, and based on rumors, whispers and news bites, but it's usually close.

vegggas

Hmmm.. all digital locals... or at least the main 7 (abc, cbs, fox, nbc, pbs, upn, wb) would only eat up a little more than 1 HD channel's worth of bandwidth. I'd love to see the channels remapped over the analog signals, since I seem to get lots of interference on 3 and 5.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but its all split up into 6MHz chunks. Each 6MHz chunk can carry about 30Mbit/s, or about 10-12 SD channels, or 1 HD channel (or two ugly lookin HD channels). So you'd only need to remove 1 analog channel to make room for all the digital locals, right?

Yes, you are correct about the 6MHZ allocation per analog channel and 30Mbps, etc. When I was referring to going digital, I meant the entire lineup. They can pull most, if not all, digital feeds from the sats and digital feeds from the locals and provide an entire digital lineup from source feeds to the customers set top box. This would have to be in addition to the current analog feeds, so equipment costs would be duplicated for all the recurring channels, with digital processors and FCC mandated digital emergency interrupters (?) (the things that go beep in the night and crawl across the screen when you are half asleep...) etc.
Besides bandwidth additions and equipment costs, there are the agreements that each station would have to give for rebroadcast. Digital doesn't equal analog and one doesn't apply to the other if the station is still broadcasting analog. Also retransmit is governed by either a lower budget station asking to be carried for free, OR larger stations requesting fees to be put on cable. Each case is unique, confidential and must come to an agreement before something like this would be possible.
Anyway, a few local channels would not market as well as an entire digital lineup could. Imagine an ad that says 95% digital and a few analog stations. As for remapping the channels, it would probably be done in blocks and need entire sections for the remapping to work correctly. An analog channel stuck in the middle would disrupt the mapping sequence.

vegggas

Any word as to when the EOD will be available to everyone? Does anyone have access to it now? It is on Channel 998.

Does anyone know how much EOD will cost? I received a flier in the mail but the only thing it left out was the price.

EOD is available in certain areas and hubs as mentioned earlier in this thread. It should be throughout the valley before the end of summer. Pricing is, as far as I know is multi optioned. One option is for subscription, like if you want HBO for EOD, you might pay a flat fee of $9.99 for all HBO programming. The other option is pay per view. Pay a fee for each program you watch. Each program has a fee from $1 - $4 depending on content. This would be useful for someone who doesn't get HBO, but would like to see the entire season of Sopranos. It is not in my area yet, but tune to 998 for more info and details.

vegggas

Wouldn't they require you to sub to the channel to get it EOD.

Anyone know what's wrong with PBS demo 10-1 or 11-1??? It disappeared for the last 20 hours or so. Not even sound. The signal strengh from my ant. is still between 98-100% for this channel.

Originally posted by lvthunder
Wouldn't they require you to sub to the channel to get it EOD.
Not quite sure what you are asking, but Ill take a guess. The way I heard it explained was if you are an HBO subscriber. You could have acces to the entire library of HBO content for a flat fee. Alternatively, you could pick each program and pay the one time fee even if you are not subscribed to HBO or whatever.
When you say "get it EOD", I'm get the feelilng you are thinking Tivo style pause and control of any live HBO or other showing at your STB. EOD is Entertainment On Demand. A library of programs already stored and being updated in a massive file system that you have instant access to at any time. Think of a Tivo or Replay server unit for the entire city that has terrabytes of harddrive space. You select whatever "recording" you want based on the current catagories and listings you want.
If you are a daytime drama fan, you could order up the entire week of shows on the weekend or catch an entire season of "24" on a sick day. Did you miss "Band of Brothers"? Watch it from start to finish whenever you want.

vegggas

Originally posted by holycowe
Anyone know what's wrong with PBS demo 10-1 or 11-1??? It disappeared for the last 20 hours or so. Not even sound. The signal strengh from my ant. is still between 98-100% for this channel.
Just checked it out 7:45PM and I see upconverted programming???
Are they filling out the demo loop with actual PBS content now??? I see the same signal on COX 731 and OTA 11.1. No problems with signal level off my 24" piece of wire connected to the wall plate. Graph shows about 40-50% with clean picture.
Also, two of the test channels above HD on COX have SD content. I clearly see nickelodian duplicated on one test channel and Discovery Health on the other. The two others are either blank or not authorized.
Somethings up...
8:00 PM update. Looks like the Demo loop is back on. Watching NJN Touring loop. Odd the OTA channels have weird (off a few hours) time displays in the data stream.

vegggas

What I meant by get it EOD was exactly what you said. I just didn't think that HBO would let someone buy just The Sopranos. I tried seeing what this is all about by going to channel 998, but I get an error message. This really isn't surprising to me as my box screwed up last Sunday. Also does anyone know if you are suppost to turn the box off at night. With everything I've read on this EOD I think I'll stick with TiVo. I currently have the Hughes HDVR2 DirectiVo. Hopefully Directv will offer the Home Media Option soon so I can play MP3's on it too.

I'm not 100% about HBO, but it's what I heard. I won't get activiation in my area until July/August, so I can't confirm that persoanlly.
I'm curious about the error message you are getting for EOD. If it's the "technical Difficulties" - "..Session Problem (3)" than the service is NOT available on your hub yet. All other messages are unknown to me... Does the card say service starts April or May 1st in your area?
Turning Off - SA and COX say to turn it off when not in use to get downloads, etc. I leave all 4 of mine on 24/7 and I have 3 different types. Things are usually ok, but I do a forced reboot and download about once a month for the heck of it.
EOD and Tivo. I have two Replay's; 1 modded to 80 hours and the other networked and not modded (I use Replay showstopper because there is no service agreement or fees and I can record any viewable source, including locals, VCR, cable, PC and other analog sources). Sometimes I'm not in the mood for what I already have or have played through what I've got. The idea of going back to see the start of a series that I overlooked earlier or that someone at worked mentioned seems like a good payoff. I don't watch too many things live anymore and miss some of the "new" shows that may become hits later and wonder what I missed.

Vegggas

p.s. the replays with network can play mp3 and swap pc files and mpegs with just a little tweaking
v

Hey vegggas, wanna see something cool? Got a PS2?

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/003/qcast/qcast-1.html

I don't know what's wrong! Still no PBS after re-scan. Signal show 98-100%

Just wanted to drop a quick note that I had Eliab of Avical.com calibrate my Panny 53wx42. Everything went great and he was very polite and straightforward. He spent about 4 hours at my house and I am now enjoying my calibrated TV. Colors seem very accurate right now and I played a bit of Monsters Inc. and it looks Fantastic!

I had Gregg Loewen come out last August and then again during CES for a touch up on my Sony. Man, what a difference. He spent about the same amount of time Eliab spent with you. Well worth every penny!

On another note, is there a model number for the new HD PVR Pioneer box that someone saw at CES?

The Cox website is showing prices for "Digital Gateway" as $5.00*
<Cox digital pricing> (http://www.cox.com/LasVegas/DigitalTV/Pricing.asp) with * A minimum subscription to Cox Basic and a digital cable box required.
and also says that you need digital to get HD on the HD pricing page (http://www.cox.com/LasVegas/HDTV/Pricing.asp) .
Does this mean that the pricing went down for those that wanted a more basic package just to get HD?

vegggas

p.s. rumor only!! I heard there might be another test for OTA NBC late tonight, but my source is not very reliable. If anyone is up all night, it may be worth it to scan for NBC again (both dtv channels). I'll try during Leno.
v

Hey Vegggas, thanks for the update.

Does anyone know if Cox will be getting the NBA HD feed?

Veggas posted this in the ESPN thread in the programing forum.

ESPN is a pay Channel. Always was and always will be. You pay for it in either a pacakge deal or al al cart. Here in Vegas, I have a choice of either purchasing ESPN SD or ESPN HD. To get ESPN HD, I do not have to already subscribe to the package with ESPN SD. This, in effect, gives me ESPN HD for $1.99 instead of ESPN sd for $1.99. What's the problem with that? If I have to pay for it anyway, I'm glad I have the HD version.

My question is do you know anybody that has done this? When I signed up they wouldn't let me get HD without expanded basic and digital cable.

Things have changed here in neon city - Go see the website
Cox Las Vegas Home (http://www.cox.com/LasVegas/)

The Basic service is only $8.91.
Basic service - $8.91 (http://www.cox.com/LasVegas/CableTV/Pricing.asp)
ESPN SD is on the Preferred basic package where almost ALL of the networks require individual user fees, including ESPN.

If you dont want the SD version, you don't have to pay for all of those channels. But, since it is ANALOG, it can be picked up by any cable ready tuner, so they group them all together and filter them off outside of your residence if you don't want to pay for them. This is why there is packaging and grouping of Analog channels.
Also found out that the previous cable co (Prime), skimped on filters, so a good portion of the "basic" users were getting the full analog feeds without paying for service. Until the inventory was started and quality of lines were established, they had to require a preferred basic to get digital, assuming if your signal looked bad on the upper analog channels, then digital would drop out.

The gateway to digital is now $5.00 and HD requires that you have a digital feed.
Digital Gateway - $5.00* Requires Minimum of Cox Basic (http://www.cox.com/LasVegas/DigitalTV/Pricing.asp) This sounds a bit different than what I heard a few months ago and lets HD customers be digital customers so that they get the interactive guide, music, digital PPV and EOD.
This sounds like a move to a full digital system - eventually. They still won't be able to drop the analog for a long, long, long time. But imagine if they simulcast digital feeds of the basic package, then this customer could watch the entire basic and digital lineup in digital. The preferred basic might cost too much in retransmit fees at this early stage in the game, but it looks promising for the future.

vegggas

Gleaming info from the website, here is how I think it could be broken down.

Basic Service $8.91
Digital Gateway - $5.00* (*Must have basic)
HDTV Converter $9.95
HDTV Remote $0.22
Discovery HD Theater® and ESPN HD (Must have Digital) $6.99
Total of 5 (for now) HD channels without the 4 for HBO and SHO

Looks like it MAY be possible to get 5 HD channels for as low as 31.07 plus the taxes each month. This is WITHOUT having to purchase any recieving equipment! If anyone would/could do it, it would probably be lvthunder:D

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
Gleaming info from the website, here is how I think it could be broken down.
Basic Service $8.91
Digital Gateway - $5.00* (*Must have basic)
HDTV Converter $9.95
HDTV Remote $0.22
Discovery HD Theater® and ESPN HD (Must have Digital) $6.99
Total of 5 (for now) HD channels without the 4 for HBO and SHO
Looks like it MAY be possible to get 5 HD channels for as low as 31.07 plus the taxes each month. This is WITHOUT having to purchase any recieving equipment! If anyone would/could do it, it would probably be lvthunder:D
vegggas

Just got off the phone with a nery nice rep... At first they didn't know... but...
If you ask a rep (NICELY!) to do a search in the system for the minimum service required for HD, then it looks like you now, ONLY need BASIC service and an HD box (plus taxes) to get HD locals!
That translates to HD for under $20
However the digital gateway is HIGHLY reccomended for the interactive program guide, access to EOD, digital PPV and the wildcard HD feeds like the NBA Allstar game etc.
Whoo hoo!!! :D :D :D

vegggas

Yes, I can confirm what vegggas is reporting about the digital gateway package for HDTV.

I was able to switch my package to:

Basic Service $8.91
Digital Gateway $5.00* (*Must have basic)
HDTV Converter $9.95
HDTV Remote $0.22
Discovery HD Theater® and ESPN HD $6.99

in early April for the total of $31.07/monthly fee.

But this was after some very poor customer service experiences involving multiple phone calls, overcharges, and at least two or three hours of holding time over the last couple of months. The customer service reps are real hit-and-miss, but I think they are slowly starting to get it together regarding HDTV. I was going to drop Cox and stick with DirecTV but I had a hard time giving up the HD.

What I like about this package is it complements my $31.99 DirecTV Total Choice Package with little, if any, overlap of channels. This allows me to keep my DirecTivo for most channels while enjoying some HDTV content. The best of both worlds, for now. My total TV programming costs are pretty hefty with both Cox and DirecTV combined, though - probably about $72-$73/month - so I will have to pare it down, eventually. I will have to checkout the HD for under $20 package vegggas refers to, but I'm not looking forward to another customer service call.

Now if only Cox would upgrade the Scientific Atlanta 3100 HD box...

I think Vegggas was saying you could drop the digital gateway and Discovery and ESPN and only get the HD local channels. You would also lose the program guide and EOD. I'm going to go with Keyon for my internet access ($25 for the same 1.5 meg service) I'm going to drop down to what Dick Diablo has unless Directv gets ESPN-HD then I'll get it from them. I really like my Directv box better than the SA 3100HD.

lvthunder,

Let me know how the Keyon thing works out. What is their mode of transmission? DSL? Will they go to 3 meg service? I just got Cox's 3 service, but it is $49 a month (they got me on that "its only $10 more a month" spiel"). Now my cable bill is over $150!!!.

I just ordered ..
HD ESPN
HD Locals
HD Showtime +all digital and standard
HD HBO + all digital and Standard
HD Discovery
+ Stars and Encore
EOD
Basic cable and expanded
3mb cable modem line..

all for 107.00 a month in the Green Valley Ranch area.
I had to do a direct pay from my checking account for 1 year contract to get this deal though.

Was is a bad deal? Please help since i have time left to cancel.

I don't think it's a bad deal! What else could you possibly get? You have the entire analog (preferred basic is the most expensive at $28.95) Looks like all of the digital movies, except TMC and Cinemax. You've also got 9 HD channels and a tenth coming soon. Add the cable modem service at the 3 megabyte download level and this should be in the $140 price range.
At your price, that sounds like a fantastic deal - AND you don't have to buy anything upfront (I assume you are buying and not renting the modem).
One note about EOD - it's a PPV service, so technically you have it just like the 45 PPV channels - although I heard there is some free content available.

vegggas

vegggas
what's our 10th HD channel thats coming up? NBC?
-jb

NBC is what I keep hearing, but there have been NO confirmations yet. I would like NBCSHIVA or someone from the local NBC station to give a public (or at least on this thread) timeframe as to when they are installing the last bit of HD mixing equipment so that they can broadcast the HD material. They are so close... I personally have stopped watching a lot of NBC programming just because I can usually watch the CBS or ABC lineup in HD. I will watch more of an unknown show in HD, just because it's there, and then get hooked on them - i.e. "HACK" and "Without a trace" on CBS probably wouldn't have been seen by me, unless they were in HD.

I have another thread Who has the most HD channels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2144727#post2144727) to see if there is any other source for as many HD channels as we have. In my personal findings, it seems COX Las Vegas has the single most number of HiDef programming channels anywhere available from any single source. It looks like there may be a few ties with 9 HD channels, but nothing has been confirmed. When we get the tenth HD channel, I would have to say we have the MOST, single source and easiest, HD channels of anybody else in the country. This includes Sat, who doesn't even come close and is fighting bandwidth issues and OTA which is also growing quickly as stations upgrade from digital to HD (like our local NBC), but many of them are limited to the average number of stations in each market, unless they are "twin cites" where you can get both markets and possibly double the coverage of local channels.

vegggas

I'm doing a cost ratio analysis over in a different thread
HD Cost Ratio Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2151866#post2151866)
I was wondering if anybody who has the HD basic package + ESPNHD and DiscHD ($26) has tried to order the two movie packages HBO and SHO for $17.95? This would get all 9 HD channels for about $45.

If nobody can confirm, I will try on Monday to see if it can be ordered that way or if you need digital gateway or a basic digital package or something. Even with a basic digital package, it would only be about $50 for all 9 of the HD channels.

It would seem that not only do we have the most HD channels, but also the lowest cost per HD channel available (as a service) other than free OTA and built in TV tuner in HD heavy cities.

vegggas

Is there any news on Cox gettting any more HD networks? USA HD or HDNet? $20/mo just for 3 or 4 HD locals is steep IMO. I paid $20 for my OTA antenna and get most stations fine. Though PBS seemed to be down for me yesterday afternoon, a blank screen but I was getting 11.01 HD and 11.02 SD.

Side note: Why do they charge for a remote? Can I save 22 cents/mo. and build my own remote? (I've got spare parts and experience building infrared comm stuff and could figure out the signals rather easily)

No other news on additional HD channels. USA network is not an HD channel at this time and has no programming yet. They have only done a test feed for the possibility of HD down the road, which means probably next year.
COX has been in negotiations with HDnet on the corporate level. From what I heard, they want even more money than HBO or SHO for their channel(s) and want it bundled with the HDnet movies. Since COX is not a business partner with Mark Cuban like Comcast (or is it Charter?) and DirectTV, they are demanding really high fees for carriage and residuals. The price I heard was around $12.99 given to HDnet for each user on top of the flat carriage price. That would translate to nearly $15.00 per user( it would cost that much to subscribe each month) to get that channel. At that price, it would not sell well and it would be a lose/lose situation. Not enough subscribers and there is not enough to pay for the basic carriage of the channel - forget even trying to pay the per user fee on top of that.
Also, look at the thread for Cost ratio (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2151866#post2151866) to compare price of HD compared to other sources. $20/mo on cable without the cost of the OTA tuner is cheaper for a year than buying the tuner in most cases. Then you can also add in ESPN and Disc for $6.99 and make it even more affordable.
As far as the remote goes, don't get it if you don't need it. All the buttons are easily mapped to a learning remote and there are many codes for universals that work. The Downside is that you have to map a lot of specialty buttons for the interactive guide and EOD functions. I use a HTM MX-500 programmable learning for all of my functions, but added a lot of extra functions to the original code. Also, if you have digital cable with the interactive guide, why would you want the TV guide? The IPG included with service can sort by date, name, or theme etc to find the programming you want. Want to watch a horror flick - sort by movies then horror. Want to find the simpsons - sort by "S" and see the monthy schedule. This is an under utilized feature that many users don't know about. I just started doing more than the usual "scroll through what's currently on" screen and love it.

vegggas

I agree about the IPG thing. My dad wanted to see when some show on the golf channel was going to be on again, so i searched using the show index in the IPG and found the list of times it comes on again. Very under utilized.

That sucks about HDNet, though. I'm still confident 2003 will be the year of HD. I know it would be if the economy was better and people had more money to spend. :(

I also think that during 2003, a lot of cable networks will consider doing digital or possibly a widescreen format to increase their viewership (like fox?). A few may make the jump to HD like USA, and even possibly TNN who is spending big bucks lately. Their downfall is HD content; an upconvert is just not the same. Some of the other networks that use film based material could probably change over relatively easy. I think the lifetime network has a large 35mm film base that could easily get upconverted to 1080i and look good.
I envision also, before the end of the year, a full digital lineup here in Las Vegas (not HD). I'll go on the record as saying it can be done, however they still have to simulcast the analog stations for customers who don't have STB's. The downfall is that it may slow the progression of other new HD stations until some of the analog stations are removed.

vegggas

Now that NBC just announced that they were going to cover the Triple Crown in HD this year, i hope that our local affiliate will hurry up.

And down the stretch they come........

Just an observation, but NBC may be doing some work on their signal and tower. The feed to COX on ch 123 is now putting out audio on multiple channels and seems to look a bit different. Can't put my finger on it, but it may be a bit more sharp than usual. Anyway, the audio is fixed. I set up the OTA receiver and picked up the signal as a steady medium strength level. Previously it has been low and fluctuating at my location and on the fringe of working (mostly not working), and now in the mid range and steady with no change in antenna (piece of wire).
With the horse racing starting up soon, maybe we will get lucky and have HD at that time.

vegggas

That sounds a bit positive.

The Kentucky Derby is this Saturday, so it doesn't seem like it would be up by them. Maybe for the Preakness....

I watched Law & Order last night on Ch 123....The bottom end, especially on some of the commercials, is HUGE! What a difference in sound quality switching between Digital 123 and Analog 3.

I hope that Cox adds an SD feed for all of the locals. Big thumbs up!

Actually the audio is too loud. Compare the audio levels to other channels and you will notice it is much higher. Also, be sure to check your box settings to make sure the dolby digital output is selected and you have adjusted the audio range to your preferred level. Range level NARROW is for limiting the dynamic range so that the high volumes are squashed down to lower levels. WIDE range allows from subtle, almost unheard whispers to exploding loud volumes, as it was recorded.

As the locals begin delivering simulcast sd digital content, COX will most likely be carrying it. Right now I think only a few offer full time feeds like NBC.

vegggas

I noticed that big time last night. I was flipping between the Basketball game and ER and I was getting blown away by ER...

This probably doesn't mean anything, but the TV Guide on Yahoo has channel 733 listed as NBC and 734 listed as Fox. I wonder if they know something we don't....

they've had it like that for awhile now...
jb

COX here in Vegas is planning on going ahead with the "HDTV self install" soon. This means, that if you have half a clue about your HDTV, then you can swap out your current digital box and put in the HD box yourself and forego the $49.95 installation fee. If you need to call and have a tech come out for assistance, they will still charge the fee.
I heard that most, if not all of the valley is HD capable to the drop at the street, so a tech is not needed to check the digital lines, only if there is a problem within the house. Also, now that HDTV's are more common, people are aware of the component DTV inputs needed on their TV. If your TV only has RGB inputs, you will have to either buy an adapter through COX or get one yourself.
In other news cable operators want to push "a la carte" pricing of ESPN and other sports packages like pay services.
link to a la carte pricing story (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds11045.html) andCox plan (http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2003-05-05-cable_x.htm)

vegggas

From another thread at this site, it appears that HDnet and HDnet Movies will be on the Dish. Given that they are already on Charter and Directv, hopefully Cox and Hdnet will reach an agreement. I think Cox is developing a much better reputation because of the HD offerings. I was very close to going to Directv prior to Cox's HD offerings. Keep it up Cox and get HDnet.

Originally posted by vegggas
COX here in Vegas is planning on going ahead with the "HDTV self install" soon. This means, that if you have half a clue about your HDTV, then you can swap out your current digital box and put in the HD box yourself and forego the $49.95 installation fee. If you need to call and have a tech come out for assistance, they will still charge the fee.

In other news cable operators want to push "a la carte" pricing of ESPN and other sports packages like pay services.
link to a la carte pricing story (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds11045.html) andCox plan (http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2003-05-05-cable_x.htm)

1. About time. though its a shame I stiill need a HD box when I have a qam256 modulator in my HDTV. Just unscramble HD locals already! =^)

2. A la carte pricing for ESPN doesnt surprirse me at all. Disney wants to keep jacking up the price so subs pay more and get angry at the cable co. Imagine if you could save $7/mo on your cable bill if you lost ESPN/ESPN2/etc.

About time. though its a shame I stiill need a HD box when I have a qam256 modulator in my HDTV. Just unscramble HD locals already! =^)
Unfortunately, according to the opencable initiative, Panasonic is/was the FIRST to announce a cable DTV compliant TV back in October.
open cable and cable labs announcement (http://www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2002/02_pr_panasonic_phila_101702.html)
The sets were to be designed and produced and should be available by summer 2003 and were displayed at the 2003 CES show Jan 8th.
CES announcment (http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=351)
It was AFTER CES that standards were finally set and tv makers could actually start producing the sets after minimal design time. Currently a 256qam decoder will have little use until cable systems provide an entire "basic" digital lineup like today's current analog basic service and cable ready TV's. Sat offers exactly the same thing. A free info channel until the equipment is authorized for service. There is no current standard legal way of getting ANY digital programming from any source (no cable or sat)other than OTA, and that may be changing within a few years according to recent news articles and complaints from TV stations paying the burden of upgrade costs with little return on investment.
I'm currently looking into rumors and reports of OTA subscription services, for both digital TV and digital radio.

vegggas

Has there been any update on the HD feed for NBC?

Toby

I heard some rumors last month, but they turned out to be just that - rumors about the horse races being in HD and us getting it too. I think they were waiting on a budget approval a while back and were taking their time. When they do get equipment, maybe one of the employees who have posted here before will let us know???
At least we get a digital feed, both OTA (2.1) and via cable (123).

vegggas

Ok, it is a bit dead in LV Thread land, so I was wondering what everyone would like to see in the next six months in Vegas?

I would like to see:

1. NBC in HD
2. Bravo
3. In Demand HD http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=252794
4. HDnet (sports, movies and film)

Probably the only realistic wish is #1. But we can still hope.

1) The NBC in HD is supposedly a done deal once the budget and equipment are finalized. NBC has met their FCC requirements for digital transmission and actually don't have to do any HD, but it would be nice.
2) Bravo is still a rumor at this point, but as new channels become available there is always hope.
3) In Demand. From what I heard it should be available to current PPV distributers, like COX, for a very low overhead. Basically, just the recieve, transmit and encoding equipment is needed once it is deployed. A high up individual at COX in Vegas thought there should be no problem with deploying the EOD/VOD with some HD content in the near future, but he was not a technical person and may not know the limitations of the system.
4) HDNET - Not gonna happen anytime soon. I wouldn't even consider it on the horizon over the next year or more. The COX / Mark Cuban relationship is not very good at this point.

What else is going to happen???
I would like to see an all (or mostly) digital lineup of the analog stations before the end of the year. While there have been murmurs and rumors, one cable co has openly stated they are trying to go all digital within the next three years. COX doesn't make any claims, they just present new stuff without any fanfare. That wouldn't be HD, but it would be nice.

I would also like to see the local independants go HD and maybe pair up with Paramount HD movies like in other markets. Anyone at WB or UPN listening???

FOX in HD would be nice, but it will take an act of GOD to convince corporate to do that.

CinemaxHD is supposed to come out this fall. That would be nice and maybe gather them some more viewers.

Superstations in HD. Just a thought, but TNN, USA, TBS, TNT and others could go HD. USA has already tested the HD waters recently and may take the leap.

All things being even, it's a crap shoot!

vegggas

Does the SA3100 that Cox is using have firewire?

Thanks.

Nope

Now that Directtv is going to get Discovery HD, ESPNHD and HDnetMovies, I think Cox needs to make the next move. Although local HD content is nice through cable (many can get it over the air), other than that there, DirectTV may be edging out Cox.

So now that D* is catching up on HD content, there are only the HDnet stations left to be added at this time to the cable lineup. I've always heard there have been sore spots for Cuban's channel pricing, so it doesn't look good on most cable systems.
It is interesting that the partially COX owned DiscoveryHD is now going to be on D*...
Just curious... If it comes down to a channel allocation issue, would anyone be willing to give up the east coast HD feeds of HBO and SHO, AND pay for HDnet and HDnetMovies? I heard there is no channel remapping until November, which means they can't easily add new lineups other that what is already allocated, like NBCHD.
Maybe after the first of the year COX would be able to get a new contract for HDnet's channels once they are priced lower. Who knows?

Just speculation, and opinion, nothing concrete.

vegggas

vegggas

did you mean to say that there is a channel allocated already for NBCHD....or there is not?

-jb

Yes, Channel 733 has been allocated to NBC's HD signal since the last channel lineup and remap (Nov?). The space, bandwidth, frequency and QAM mod have been set aside and they have been awaiting a feed from NBC for quite some time. Whenever NBC gives the OK for transmision, it really is just "Flipping the switch on".

vegggas

Why would there be no channel remapping until November? I would think they would do at any time they can put a new channel on.

I recently moved to Vegas, and setup my Mitz HDTV. I'm using an OTA antenna for HD, and have a question....

I receive CBS (8.1), FOX (5.1 digital, Not HD), and PBS (10.1), via the antenna. While CBS and FOX are fine, the PBS audio track continually cuts out. It cuts out for 2-3 seconds, and occurs every 5-6 seconds. The audio on CBS and FOX are solid, even with lower signal strength than I have on PBS.

Signal strengths, using Hughes E-86 Receiver:
CBS 76-84
FOX 86-94
PBS 94-96

It seems VERY strange to me that I have audio problems on the station with the strongest signal. I have tried repositioning and aligning the antenna (RCA indoor antenna) to attain higher and lower signal strengths to see if that would impact the PBS audio track. So far, my efforts have been unsuccessful. :( No matter what I do with the antenna, I can't impact the audio problem.

BTW, when I use the built in HD tuner in the Mitz TV, I get no audio at all on PBS, but CBS and FOX are fine. The Mitz tuner has always been 'pickier' than the Hughes.

Do you have any idea why I'm suffering such audio problems on PBS?

BTW, I live off of Durango and 95, on the NW end of town. I know that I'm a fair distance from the transmitters, but the signal strength is strong.

Paul

Have the same thing with my E86 sound breakups on PBS and no sound on PBS with built in tuner on my Mits TV.

Also get poor picture quality on both for NBC 3.1 and breakups on 22.1 with the e68.

located at west of buffalo north of summerlin Pky

Why don't you guys email the local engineer from PBS? I haven't had these problems back last year before I moved (I have Cox's HD service now). I know they had some problems when they first went on the air. They actully posted in this thread when they first went on the air. They did seem very friendly.

Why would there be no channel remapping until November? I would think they would do at any time they can put a new channel on.
They remapped and added the channel LAST november. They are still waiting for NBC to broadcast in HD and send the signal to them.

Anyway, Channel mapping is a big thing where they reallocate frequencies and modulators. Remember when everyone was whining about moving the game show network and tech TV to the digital stations instead of analog? They move around and remove some of the analog stuff to add more digital and place multiple channels on the same QAM carriers in it's place. This upsets people who have grown accustomed to their favorite program channels and also forces a complete shutdown and reboot of all the boxes in the city to view the correct content.
Anytime they make a change it has to be in a proposal to the FCC and it has to be approved and liscenced by all local, regional, and national distributors. It's a royal pain in the ass to get everyone to agree, and sign contracts, so typically it's done no more than twice a year.
The good news is that NBCHD is already there! The only thing missing is the local feed from NBC to COX. They would then send a command during the next download to add it to the IPG for customer use.

vegggas

I can't find anywhere on the dtv website about the addition of hd espn. Could you point me to a link on the subject. You guys are great to follow. Thanks for all of the info. :)

geez, i'm not that big a hockey fan, but i did tune in tonight to see game 6 in HD and Cox channel 732 is in SD. What the heck is going on???


-jb

uhhh, never mind! midway through the 1st period and 2 minutes after i posted that...they pulled a switcheroo and its in HD now....
-jb

Hockey - HD: Yeah, Somebody at the ABC TV station forgot to flip the switch. Next time it happens call the ABC station as soon as possible. I saw that it was in SD and decided to watch IceAge on HBOHD instead. I didn't know if it was supposed to be in HD or not. Cox has nothing to do with the HD "Switch", they are only a relay point from the providers.

ESPNHD: If you are looking for D* coverage, look at the News section on their website. Otherwise, we have been enjoying it here on cable channel 705 since March 30th; a full three months before D* expected launch of July 1st. This is the same channel and feed, so they will be identical. They also are moving HDnet into the "paid" tier with ESPN, DiscHD and HDnetmovies for $11.99. No more free HD. They will then get the same thing we get, plus HDnet movies, but have to pay $4/more a month for the package.

vegggas

Somehow I get the feeling charging extra for HD is a ripoff. But as long as we have to rely on a third party (Cox, D*,etc) we are at their mercy. Until someone can come up with technology to broadcast the original signal in HD and have all TVs receive it either in SD or HD on the same channel we are stuck with what they decide to carry.

Thanks for the info lionsfan and lvthunder. I'll try to find a contact e-mail address for the local PBS engineer tomorrow.

It amazes me that people thing TV Cable should be free! Who is to pay for the equipment and staff to make it happen!

Maybe you "it should be free folks" should go into work tommorrow and tell the boss you are going to work for free! Get real!

Eddie

HDTV cost $ 7 more over digital!

Hey,
The cupholders in the car I wanted were free, but I had to buy the ENTIRE car to get them. Water is free too, until it's packaged up and marketed. I remember when air was free too, now I keep seeing these oxygen bars around. I'm thinking of starting a sun shop... Doh!! I forgot about those stupid tanning salons. There must be something free left out there... Oh yeah,
We, the people in this country are FREE!!!
I'm happy about that!


For the record, and to keep this a legitimate post all the free stations on cable are free of charge (all 5 of them?). You are charged network access fees to hook onto and use the minimum private system. It's called Basic Service ($8.91?) and you get a few other tossed in too. Expanded basic is a grouping of pay TV services bundled together to reduce the overall charges so that if ABC wants to lower it's rate, but require the addition of 10 of it's sister programming, it can - as long as those channels are bundled together in a package. The digital network, where HD has to be, is a more expensive network to build and maintain. You have to pay to be on that network ($5 for additional services - gateway) to get those local HD channels, but they are free. All other channels are subscription and fee based from the providers and passed along to the consumer.

vegggas

I don't buy the you have to pay for all of the upgrades to the cable system. If we keep HD around as long as NTSC the cable company will have 50 years to pay for all that stuff. I feel ashamed to say my cable bill is higher than my water, sewer, and power combined. Now I know it's not totally the cable companies fault but part of it is. Also I didn't think you needed the digital gateway to get just the local HD channels. I thought you only needed that to get VOD, PPV, ESPNHD, and DESCHD. Am I wrong on that. Come July 1 I plan on getting just the min to get the local HD channels.

I'm don't think that it's good business to provide a new product with the expectation that you can pay off all of your capital costs over a very long period of time (50 years?). What happens when the next wave of must have goodies hits, maybe in ten or fifteen years? If the cable company is still paying off the last set of capital costs, they won't have the funds to implement the new stuff. That's just what you get as a consumer of products on the cutting edge of technology. You pay for the capital costs, R&D costs (if any), etc. I'm really enjoying it, though...

I'm really enjoying it too, but there is going to be a point when people are going to say enough is enough and the critics of HDTV are going to say it's too expensive to get programing in HD. If your paying $2-5 a channel after about 10 channels or so it's going to be a lot more expensive then expanded basic is now. I don't mind paying for these HD channels it's just I don't want to have to spend an arm and a leg to get them.

Lots of new stuff announced yesterday and hopefull news for our cable system. I posted this on the HD Recorders forum so I don't double post.Link to new stuff post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2311016#post2311016)

I have NOT verified it yet, but it seems perfectly reasonable that if I were to go to Phoenix and purchase a SA3250, or a newer SA3270 when they come out, that I could get it activated here.
On the other hand, The new 8000HD DVR needs new software, has to be leased per month (assume no lifetime sub), and provided by the cable co offering it. I will know more in the next few weeks about this one.

vegggas

Hmmm, nothing on the 3270 being HAVi compatible... thats a must-have for any firewire based device nowadays..

Hmmm....
You're right, no mention anywhere, just the following quote and NO spec sheet available. - Good catch!
Explorer 3270HD, which is expected to be available in fall 2003, will include DVI 1.0, IEEE 1394 and component outputs. It will also support full 1080i and 720p scan rates as well as 480p and 480i.
I will have to find the PDF and post a link to be sure, or get feedback from SA.
Hopefully a press oversight.

vegggas

edit* Here is the old PDF link to the 3250. No mention of HAVI, but does go into HDCP and 5C.
Link to older SA3250HD box at Best Buy now (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/subscriber_pdfs/4003138.pdf)

I almost forgot about the Pioneer HD DVR box announcement!

Go to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2311770#post2311770)

This is a further (final?) version of the one talked about during CES. COX uses both SA and PIO boxes and the software runs on both.

vegggas

Just an FYI for the OTA guys....

I contacted KLVX regarding the audio drop outs on 10.1, and got this message back yesterday.....

Thank you for the information. KLVX has been
investigating problems with our digital signal. I am passing your message
to Gary Jones, the primary KLVX engineer investigating the signal hits.


Last night, I flipped to KLVX-DT, and the audio appears to be fixed!! :)

I didn't mean to imply that cable or sat should be free. What I was trying to get across was the high cost of a few HD channels. Not only that but I question the statement '100% digital'. Cox and D* might relay in digital but some of the original signals must be in analog. Either that or they have a poor digital signal. Channel 3/5/13/21.etc. don't look any different in digital than they do in analog. Many cable channels the same. I have both HD and SD TVs and the quality of the picture appears to be the same for the majority of channels.

Has anyone in Las Vegas been using a Cable PVR such as the SA 8000? If so, how is it? I am thinking about getting a Tivo, but I may wait if the cable PVRs are right around the corner.

Any cable channel under 100 is analog. The other thing to remember is that digital is not always better.

I haven't used a cable PVR but I have used both a TiVo and a DirecTiVo. I would get a TiVo from what I hear the TiVo software has the best features of any of the other ones.

Originally posted by benspal
I didn't mean to imply that cable or sat should be free. What I was trying to get across was the high cost of a few HD channels. Not only that but I question the statement '100% digital'. Cox and D* might relay in digital but some of the original signals must be in analog. Either that or they have a poor digital signal. Channel 3/5/13/21.etc. don't look any different in digital than they do in analog. Many cable channels the same. I have both HD and SD TVs and the quality of the picture appears to be the same for the majority of channels.

D* is 100% digitally transmitted - has been and always will be. This requires an STB for ANY chanel viewing. Cable is a mixture. Channels below 99 are usually analog and those above are digitally transmitted. The analog channels are tunable with any modern tuner from the past 20 years or so.
The source material for both is mainly analog, but D* must convert everything to digital to transmit within the bandwidth constraints, cable to some degree too. The local digital stations being rebroadcast will look better only in the fact that they will have less snow and no multipath ghosting or local ingress competing for the same analog signal.

PVR's: I have used Tivo, DirectTivo, Showstopper (Replay) and Replay 5040's. All Tivo's are limited to 640x480 resolution. Replay uses DVD compatible 720x480 mpg. The Replay also has network archiving to another PC, DVD or another Replay unit, even across the country.
Pioneer just agreed to use Tivo technology in upcoming DVR's yesterday.
SA is thought to be using Replay technology.
Tivo has been used primarily for DBS and Directivo's are UNABLE to record analog sources. Replays have always allowed source material from any Analog souorce, but use the s-video from D* or your Digital cable box, or just from it's own internal tuner.

vegggas

Vegggas, what do you currently use? I hate the fact that there is only one tuner available. That is probably my primary reason in waiting for the SA8000 or Pioneer....

I currently use two PVR's. A Panasonic Showstopper with an upgraded 80 GB drive (80hr low res, 45hr med res, 24hr hi res). Showstoppers are/were digital VCR's with NO subscription fees, or monthly obligation. Buy the hardware and use the guide or manually enter a time, date and channel (or input source) They have 3 inputs and 3 outputs and can be connected to any audio or video source. The guide is great, and will add your sat and digital cable box channels up into the thousands (analog 1-100, Digital cable 101-999, sat 1001-1999, etc) into one guide to automatically switch inputs and change the box to the correct channel if needed via IR (cable) and/or serial (Sat). This is my primary device, but I have removed the sat and digital cable from the guide and mostly record analog via auto schedule, and only record digital sources once in a while.
The other device is a Replay 5040. Same as above, but has a subscription service, of which I paid for the lifetime activation and these other features. Component progressive output. 10/100 Network connection for archiving movies or shows, or "sending" them over the internet to another Replay or PC. Auto Commercial Skip. Start your playback, check this button, no more commercials! Great for long sports events with "slow" periods of about a dozen commercial breaks in 15 minutes. Internet programming - I can add a show from the office or while on vacation and it takes effect immediately - the Showstopper does this but requires the next nights guide download (via phone) to be effective. Personal pictures as screensaver streams photos from PC to Replay so that if my "pause" times out, I get a slide show of personal photos. It is also supposed to be able to stream MP3's and Movies from the PC, but I have always used the HTPC for that instead.
I forgot the question... Oh yeah, my devices only have one tuner or one recordable video stream at a time. You can record and play back something else at the same time, but only one recording stream. Both the Pioneer and SA8000 have dual (or triple?) tuners allowing dual recordings while watching something else. Not sure if that means watching a prerecorded show or third tuner. The box is effectively "free", but like ALL other PVR's now on the market, require a monthly fee for activation and use. No connection = No current authorization from cable co = big expensive doorstop.

vegggas

SPIKE TV COMIN AT YA starting on Monday!
From Cox source

Effective June 16, 2003 TNN (channel 29) will change its name to Spike TV, The first network targeted to men.

On June 26 at 10pm, Spike TV will premiere its guy animation block featuring the Ren & Stimpy show, Adult party Cartoon and all new adventures that are crazier than ever!

following the pattern established by Oxygen and Lifetime which provide entertainment for Women, Spike TV will be an entertainment network for Men.

On June 16th the on screen TV GUIDE will reflect all the necessary changes of Spike TV.


vegggas

From another post I replied to... re: 3250HD

I called Cox in Phoenix and they were unaware of the new box schedule rollout. I would assume that BestBuy or a retail store actually might know more about product dates.
Seems there should still be no reason not to activate one in Vegas, but until it is VERIFIED and working it's still a risk.
CSR's put in a retail code that is available to them for the local market. Vegas doesn't have that in place yet, but seems easy enough.

vegggas

Replying to the last myriad of posts....

vegggas:

1. All Tivos have a single analog input, cept for the sat based ones (which have none).
2. Spike TV's name change has been put on hold due to legal wrangling by Spike Lee (and his lawyer Johnny Cochran).


In general the new HD sat boxes will be able to record 3 sources at once. HD OTA, and two HD signals from the sat.

Originally posted by doormat
Replying to the last myriad of posts....

vegggas:

1. All Tivos have a single analog input, cept for the sat based ones (which have none).
My post only said the DIRECTIVOS were unable to record analog... I was unable to record anything from cable (especially networks) VHS, or DVD, so it was gone ASAP!


In general the new HD sat boxes will be able to record 3 sources at once. HD OTA, and two HD signals from the sat.
I was referring to the Cable DVR's, but for the record, the official word on the Dish921 and others is "The ability to record TWO sources and watch a PRE-RECORDED THIRD program". Meaning, if you are recording two things at once, but don't want to watch those programs, you are S.O.L. You are unable to tune anything else on the reciever, except those two simultaneous recordings. If you are recording a SINGLE event, like a baseball game, and WATCHING CSI, then the PVR has to go and record something on HDNet, your CSI will shut off while your PVR changes channels and leave you watching what is being recorded, or give you the option to watch a pre recorded show.
The Broadcom HD chipset in HDDVR's only handles 2 digital datastreams at one time, the same as everyone else.

At least with cable, you still have 80 analog channels to watch on your TV,

vegggas

This is a little off topic....but, why is ESPN-HD so loud? It's a bit annoying to have to turn down the volume when switching to ESPNHD from any other channel. (Cox cable-henderson)

-jb

More slightly off topic...
Finally got the EOD service in my neighborhood. Some of the preview screens and "extras" free movies videos and other services seemed heavily compressed and soft. I ordered a movie "Serving Sara" and it was actually watchable; not nearly as compressed or soft as the previews appeared and appeared as good as channel 200 HBO. The interface is slow, and it takes 20 min to scroll through all the titles from A-Z, but there were a lot of older titles I may watch, like "Rosmary's Baby", etc.
The free stuff is worth it, like the 8-mile videos and stuff and the 24hr anytime viewing of any title, but it's going to have to be a bit faster to get a lot of use.
Just my $0.02 and waiting for HD EOD.

vegggas

I agree about the EOD. There is no way it is going to replace my TiVo anytime soon. To me it just looked like another way to sell PPV. They should just get rid of all the PPV stations and stick the PPV into this. I doubt it will happen though.

EOD....

In some markets, HBO on demand is available for an extra monthly subscription of a few bucks. I would love to see Cox offer this as an added benefit to their EOD offerings.

Dave

I thought that Sci Atl worked through this issue and was able to present the menu in real time? My SA3000HD still jumps two hours ahead. I tried reseting it, turning the power off, turning it off at night (to allow an update), etc. To no avail. A friend of mine in San Diego has Cox cable and his box gives a menu at "real time."

Anyone know anything?
thx.

I thought that Sci Atl worked through this issue and was able to present the menu in real time? My SA3000HD still jumps two hours ahead.
Press the Red "C" button to go to your current time and channel...

The last I heard, it was a software copyright issue with Gemstar, the originators of the menu system that prevents systems from going to the current channel automatically.

HBO EOD: It has been mentioned and brought up as a feature, but I think they are awaiting the full roll out, before the announcement.

EOD/Tivo: I always watch the PPV movies and events through my Replay anyway. It seems impossible anymore to actually watch anything without the phone / work / knock on door / dog has to go... / wife late to sit down / etc, etc, etc, Totally distracting me from the movie. The resume feature where you get to go back for 24 hours is cool.

vegggas

No, I know how to do it. I was under the impression that they resolved the copyright issue (I still don't understand how having the menu 2 hours ahead evaded a copyright issue on then menu system). Anyway, my friend in San Diego has the exact some box and his menu defaults in real time. So, if they can do it, why can't we???



Originally posted by vegggas
Press the Red "C" button to go to your current time and channel...

The last I heard, it was a software copyright issue with Gemstar, the originators of the menu system that prevents systems from going to the current channel automatically.


vegggas

??? Channel 13 HDTV on Cox-Las Vegas

Anyone else getting intermittent pixilation/picture loss (<1 second) on Channel 13 HDTV lately??? I have noticed it the last two nights. All other HD channels seem OK and my levels are the same as they were at install 3 weeks ago. Seems like it's only on network HD feed, so maybe it is on Ch13's end and not Cox. Called in to Cox and they said everything was OK on their end....


Keith

I finally had a chance to go over some HDTV stuff with the TOP brass at COX. No, not the CSR's, marketing or what not, but, "T-H-E" top of the ol' food chain that makes all the decisions (and knows and likes HDTV), if you know what I mean...
There were lots of HDTV questions - AND answers. Unfortunately, to get the questions answered, there were certain bits of info that I am unable to repeat at this time, due to current negotiations and upcoming announcements.
I do have some good news that I can repeat!

1) NBC status: The fiber link to NBC is active, and it's only waiting on NBC to start sending data. NBCHD has been delayed several times and may be up within a few months.

2)Cable boxes for sale! The boxes in Phoenix are still the older boxes, so there is no reason to go down and try to buy one. Also the CSR's do not have the turn on codes for retail sales - yet. The new boxes seem to have problems with the software and the IPG and should have the bugs worked out within the next 1-2 months. Good news is that they WILL BE AVAILABLE, FOR SALE, HERE IN VEGAS! Retail sales are being setup through Best Buy and Circuit City for SA and possibly Pioneer boxes next quarter. Fot the short term, both leasing and sales of STB's will be allowed in this market.

3) MORE HDTV Channels! Agreements have been made with NBATV carriage, and it's only a short time before HDTV agreements are made for a dedicated free digital package channel (meaning, have digital service, get NBATV free.

Starz HD: Current agreement allows for immediate coverage at launch of Starz HD with NO incremental price. Translated as: if you pay for Starz digital, you get Starz HD included for free (like HBO and SHO).

More channels are in negotiations, but I'm not allowed to divulge that specific info. If you were to compare what HD channel has been available on D* for a long time (with a second ch coming soon)... Basically, there should be no exclusive HD channels on D* that we will not be seeing here on Cox cable - except maybe a few NFL ticket games.

4)HDPVR - Cox LV is VERY interested and VERY well informed with a few different choices available!!! Not allowed to say anything more...

5) Full digital lineup! Talk of remapping Analog to new Digital carriers for digital subscribers . Cox LV is VERY interested and aggressively looking into doing this. Not allowed to comment on current developments.

Also noted was that with current agreements in place, as cable channels go forth with HD, most should be available with their launch. Currently, bandwidth in Vegas is not a problem for rolling out HD.
With the launches and negotiations going on right now, there could be twice as many HD channels available by the end of the year.

vegggas
:D :D :D

veggas
briefly, why would we want to upgrade our cable boxes?

-jb

Originally posted by jb1219
veggas
briefly, why would we want to upgrade our cable boxes?
-jb
Multiformat HD output with downconversion - HD aspect control - HD Resolution select - HD compatible Program Guide - Firewire - DVI - Faster processor with more video memory - Digital optical and coaxial output, even from analog sources- etc.

If you just want info for Scientific Atlanta's replacement for our current 3100HD box,
Go here for new 3270HD box out soon (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/news/03Jun10-1.htm)

Or here for the already released 3250HD box (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/news/03Apr07-3.htm)

Or here for the 3250HD datasheet in PDF format (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/subscriber_pdfs/4003138.pdf)

If you prefer Pioneer, which is compliant and in use in our system Go here for current Pioneer HD box (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/CompanyOverview/PressDetails/0,1479,92868,00.html)

Thats a sampling, although not that brief...

vegggas

If you were to compare what HD channel has been available on D* for a long time (with a second ch coming soon)... Basically, there should be no exclusive HD channels on D* that we will not be seeing here on Cox cable - except maybe a few NFL ticket games.


This statement has me very excited! I'm a relative newcomer to the world of HD, but i think i can read between the lines on this one. Fantastic news vegggas, I think we are lucky to have Cox so dedicated to HD here in LV.

For anyone wondering what i'm talking about...see the last post on the previous page of this topic!

-jb

You guys find any info on if the 3270 box is havi compliant?? I cant seem to find any info..

Thanks Vegggas! That is some great news. I am particularly interested in the HDPVR. That is probably when I will buy my cable box. The other items, although interesting and nice, probably wouldn't lead me to buy a cable box.

I wonder why NBC is not sending their HD content? How hard can that be if the equipment is in place.....

Re: Channels coming soon that were on D* - It's not concrete, but negotiations have started. Where it goes from there is not guaranateed at this time. It could take months to get an agreement, and even then, there may be a broadcast date set in the future because of previous exclusivity... Personally, I thought this would never happen. Until now, this "channel" owner had given his product away for free to D* and wanted to make up revenue by selling it to others at a premium price, comparable to HBO and SHO. With competition, comes lower prices, and in order to get his product out before everyone is in HD, the price has to be reasonable.

Re: NBC - Last I heard, was that they were waiting on an HD compatible switcher, which allows them to insert local content and advertising into the stream. I think this is over the $100k price range. AFAIK all agreements have been in place and it's just a matter of time until NBC is ready.

Re: HAVI - I'm not having any luck finding products that are HAVI compliant. This is for control of the connected device for Mits, RCA, and Hitachi TV's right? The firewire out on the cable boxes are outputs for recording the data stream to either a PC or Hard drive side car, etc. I can only find the Mits Digital VCR as a HAVI compliant device not built into a TV set. It will take several years to see this as a common interface.

Re: Cable HDPVR - These products are software based and will NOT work without a subscription provided by the cable co. Think Tivo. You can't just buy it, turn it on and record shows. You have to subscribe and get connected, via ethernet or phone, to get the guide and enable the service. Cable PVR's will do the same, except that there is a different, specific software download from each cable system via RF. You will still have to get the box and pay a monthly fee to the cable co to enable the service. For that reason it's unlikely that you will be able to actually purchase a box (or would want to at this time). once disconnected from it's cable source, it becomes a doorstop, much like a DirecTtivo without a D* subscription. You can't move it from one platform or provider to another. The good news is that most models I've seen have sidecar compatibility. Purchase a firewire drive of your choice and plug it in to manage and archive any content you want without having to modify the box or voiding the warranty.

vegggas

That sucks about havi. Yea, I'm looking for something to hook my Mits integrated up to. Its a really great idea, controlling everything seamlessly w/ 1 remote. People would demand it if they knew about it. I'm going to have to rent a box til something with havi shows up.

And you can use tivo as a recorder w/o subscribing. But it acts more like a VCR, that is, you have to tell it when to start and stop recording. It sucks, but thats what they use as leverage. No guide data, no season pass, no remembering which shows to record, just a HD based VCR. Otherwise if Tivo went under, you'd have a $300 paperweight..

Is that a new Tivo? I thought most of the new units would not do anything without activation and subscription. I have a new Replay that will only work if there is a subscription. The other Replay is a digital VCR that doesn't need a sub to work and doesn't charge a fee, but it is a few years old. Also DirecTivo's used to only work with a sub to D* - Has that changed?

HAVi does have it's limitations among other brands of controllers. If your Mits TV is the Controller or BAV unit, it has to be able to control other manufacturers IAV equipment, but only do basic functions. Specialized functions are still a problem from one device to another. That's what I got out of HAvi website and discussions on the net at least.

vegggas

Has anyone heard if there is a possibility of these channels getting added to Cox's line-up?

1) MTV2
2) VH-1 Classic
3) Trio
4) Noggin

These have been available on D* for a long time and seem like obvious choices to be on Cox's line-up. Any idea if these are in the works?

No idea... The best thing to do is call up and make a formal request for the stations you would like added. They have to write it down, go through all the channels and submit them to the corporate offices. Then try again a few weeks later, it makes them go through the entire process again.
vegggas

Channel choice is a very weird deal. I am not exactly sure how much a few phone calls will matter. Granted a lot of phone calls will make a difference, but I think a lot depends on how much revenue the additional channel will bring to Cox. For example, for the last 4 years they had Channel 4 Padres on Cox, but now they have local access and home shopping. I have called on this quite a bit, to no avail.

However, this is the first year they have OLN during the Tour de France. I called on that last year, but how knows if it did any good.

Effective September 1, 2003, pay-per-view channels 74 and 75 will no longer be available. Special events and movies previously offered for purchase on these channels are available on digital pay-per-view channels 501 and 502. Pay-per-view channel 533 (Hot Choice) will move to pay-per-view channel 531.


This opens the door to removing more analog and getting more digital or HD channels!
One step closer to more HD!!!

vegggas

Now that fox is going HD, I wonder if they will be broadcasting their NFL games in HD (not their widescreen format). If so, once Cox gets Fox HD, that would be a nice option.

I think that all depends apon the Fox affilite here. I know last time I emailed them they had no intention on getting the equipment to broadcast 480p so I kind of doubt they will get the equipment to do 720p. I guess I could email them and ask again.

I would like to get a sampling of local viewers that have both Sat and Cable HD feeds. Here is the info I would like:
1) Which feeds can you watch on both systems to do an A/B comparison? (i.e. HBO, DiscHD ESPN etc.)
2) What format TV do you have (4x3 vs 16x9 vs FP) and is it 720P capable?
3) Do you have the $9 basic service with HD locals or digital package with ESPN, Disc, HBO etc.

For those that answer, you can either respond in the thread or PM me. If there is some interest in gathering more comparison data for this thread, I have an idea that I would like to share, but it has to be via PM or email only.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
I would like to get a sampling of local viewers that have both Sat and Cable HD feeds. Here is the info I would like:
1) Which feeds can you watch on both systems to do an A/B comparison? (i.e. HBO, DiscHD ESPN etc.)
2) What format TV do you have (4x3 vs 16x9 vs FP) and is it 720P capable?
3) Do you have the $9 basic service with HD locals or digital package with ESPN, Disc, HBO etc.

For those that answer, you can either respond in the thread or PM me. If there is some interest in gathering more comparison data for this thread, I have an idea that I would like to share, but it has to be via PM or email only.

vegggas

1) I don't have any anymore.
2) I have a Sony Vega 4X3 HDTV.
3) Yes I have the $9 plan. Except it's over $20 with the box rental thrown in. I don't even have the gateway.

So what's your idea?

I have always had a problem with Ch13/DT. All the others are usually fine but I constantly have video or audio breakup HD or not. Signal is usually in the 90's. Using OTA antenna.

I had the same problem last night while watching ALIAS. Channel 13 does that to me from time to tome. Good signal, yet it still breaks up. Built in tuner with ota. Eastern / I215 area.

During Alias it broke up on cable too so it's probibly a channel 13 problem.

My tuners built into TV. OTA Viewing for 13.1 varries also without touching
my R.S. bow antenna.
I've been unable to pull in KVBC 3.1/2.1, I think their still low power.
Fox 5 is my strongest OTA DT signal.

Originally posted by chelsea
Fox 5 is my strongest OTA DT signal.

Mine too. Too bad they aren't passing the network digital feed. Maybe they will reconsider once Fox goes HD.

I'm giving some thought to getting the new Zenith HD PVR.
I currently have an HDTV but no HD tuner.
I am relatively close to Black Mountain (about 3 or 4 miles north) and wonder if an indoor antenna would be sufficient for the major network broadcasts.
If so, what is a reliable make/model to get?
Thanks,
Rick

Zenith HD-PVR: Unless you plan on only recording OTA HD this might not be a good idea and a costly piece of equipment.
If you have no other HD source consider Cable or Sat:
Sat equipment is expensive up front, but you can pick and choose your equipment and it has a failrly good list of HD stations. Their HD PVR should be available within a few months for OTA HD and all SAT broadcasts.
Cox Cable, here in Vegas is one of the better HD cable systems available. You can get in a lot cheaper without having to buy any equipment and just pay rental fees for the HD box and the basic cable service. I think it's around $20/mo total for just for the basic service, rental, and included HD locals. Add $5 to get the digital gateway to add ESPNHD and DiscHD for another $7. The Cable HD-PVR will be out at the same time as the Sat HD-PVR later this year.
Differences between Cable and Sat selections currently are:
Sat has HDNet and HDNetMovies.
Cable Has both East and West Coast Feeds of HBOHD and SHOHD.
MAJOR changes should be taking place soon that will offer the same channels and a even more channels as they are launched.

As far as the antenna goes, check antennaweb.org or titanTV.com. Personally I use an old Samsung HD-STB and a piece of wire sticking out of the back RF input and pick up all of the available stations with some minor moving around. I use it only occasionally to compare signals to cable and check the status of other stations that have digital, but not HD signals.

vegggas

I'm aware of the limitations of the Zenith. I rarely, if ever, watch "live" tv anymore, and timeshift everything with my DirecTivo. I previously used a Panasonic ShowStopper, and before that, I recorded and watched programs using two vcr's. I haven't been held hostage to broadcast tv schedules in over ten years, so you can maybe understand my reluctance to give up my pvr habits.
Although I am giving some thought to the Zenith, I am really hoping DirecTv will get their box out sooner than the end of the year with sat and ota capability.
I guess I am just getting anxious to use my Mitsubishi's HD capability.

Rick

I understand your PVR dilemma. I went from DirecTivo to Panasonic Showstopper and Replay 50 combined (modded of course).
I know I sound like a broken record sometimes but... You can get into the HD cable really cheap now without a contract. I think there is a self install now to waive the HD installation, but normal charges apply. The good news is that if you can get grandfathered in with HD cable. When the HD-PVR box comes out, you will get first dibs and be able to swap out the box without having to pay for it. Thats assuming it is going to be a consumer purchase device like the other HD cable boxes are going to be later this year.
Alternatively, check out some open box deals for lowpriced OTA STB's.
CBS, ABC, and PBS offer some HD content.

vegggas

Originally posted by rsblaski
I'm giving some thought to getting the new Zenith HD PVR.
I currently have an HDTV but no HD tuner.
I am relatively close to Black Mountain (about 3 or 4 miles north) and wonder if an indoor antenna would be sufficient for the major network broadcasts.
If so, what is a reliable make/model to get?
Thanks,
Rick

I live close to Black Mountain too (a couple blocks East of Gibson and Horizon Ridge and the only Digital Channel I can get easialy is Fox 5. I can get a few more if I point the antenna just right and all that but I would suggest before you go buy an HD STB that you get the antenna you plan on using and hook it up to your TV. If you can get 3, 5, 8, 10, 13, 21, and 33 you should be set.

Vegggas,

Is that a confirmed statement? They will agree to switch out at no extra charge? Will they charge extra for the PVR service? Did you get a sense that they would be releasing this in the fall? Christmas?

Thanks for the info!

Originally posted by vegggas
When the HD-PVR box comes out, you will get first dibs and be able to swap out the box without having to pay for it. Thats assuming it is going to be a consumer purchase device like the other HD cable boxes are going to be later this year.
Alternatively, check out some open box deals for lowpriced OTA STB's.
CBS, ABC, and PBS offer some HD content.

vegggas

lvthunder or veggas,
I checked antennaweb.org, and from my house, there is about a 17 degree arc between the two major broadcast sites. Would an indoor antenna cover this arc?
Also, which brand of indoor antenna should I look for?

Tallen234 - That is not a fully confirmed statement, but a widely held assumption. Here are the "Known" facts.
1) Las Vegas is currently using the "lease" model for supplying HD boxes.
2) The "Purchase" model for supplying boxes will be tested/ deployed before the end of the year at Best Buy and Circuit City.
3) Those that have a current leased HD STB will be grandfathered in and not "have" to purchase the HD STB when available.
4) New accounts will be buying their HD STB (There is an option for lease accounts to purchase their box too).
Here are the "Assumed Known Facts"-Thought to be true, but can't get absolute verification or subject to change.
5)There "may" be an option for still leasing current 3100HD STBs for new accounts and purchasing other types of boxes at retail once the "purchase" model goes into effect.
6)HD-PVR's are awaiting liscensing agreements for all systems. When legalities are cleared, Sat and Cable HD-PVR's will be available simultaneously. Sat may be slightly faster to consumers, because they are going straight to retail outlets. Cable will have a mixed launch, depending on the location, but still out to consumers within a few days/weeks of launch (meaning a few extra steps in shipping and cable co has to have the software tested in the field).
7) All HD-PVR's will have subscription fees! Both Sat and Cable will still require a monthly fee for activation and use. In markets where you purchase your box, you may also have the option to purchase a "lifetime" subscription. In leased markets, the box is leased as with any other STB and then there is a subscription fee to use the PVR service.
8) Major Assumptions Here! Current leased HD STB customers will be able to swap out their existing HD box for the HD-PVR. No change in service, or fees for hardware swap. To enable the PVR service another subscription to that service will be needed. Testing will need to be done, and it can only be done by HD customers. Those currently getting HD services will be the first to use the HD-PVRs and may get a reduction in fees for testing during the rollout phase.

vegggas

rsblaski - As I mentioned before, I use a piece of wire to pick up OTA signals, but both tower locations are almost due west of me. This is indoors with a ~3 foot long wire draped behind my office tv. This works great for the VHF signals, but the UHF channels are a bit harder to pick up and need some tweaking by moving the wire a bit. Sometimes I twist on one side of an AM radio loop antenna to get UHF better (it runs horizontally).
From your location 17 degrees seems like a fairly wide arc to be pulled in by one antenna, but is should be doable, since the signal is strong in your area. Can't choose the antenna for you, as I don't use one, but I might suggest actually getting the equipment first and starting with the basics. I was ready to buy an antenna, until I found that a simple wire behind the TV worked just as well.
Maybe others will chip in with better info...

vegggas

Well, I would be more than happy to be a beta tester! I think this is the next big step for Cox. I have delayed/forgone getting a Tivo as I wanted the dual tuner/HD options. I am certainly crossing my fingers.




Originally posted by vegggas
Testing will need to be done, and it can only be done by HD customers. Those currently getting HD services will be the first to use the HD-PVRs and may get a reduction in fees for testing during the rollout phase.

vegggas

That is great news. I too have been holding out for the HD-PVR. I hope I can "test" the new units.

Toby

See what they see. Channel 887 has the current info for techs out in the field, with outages and other problems.
Current listing says
"CHN 732 FROM ORIGINATION 1040A 800P UPDATE CHN732 STILL TILING"

I read this as channel 732 ABCHD is having problems from the source reported last at 1040 AM - At 8:00PM it was updated to say it was still tiling.
This probably explains all the breakups I've been getting both OTA and via cable.

There was a blurb about Nevada Power losing power to a node, but it was just deleted right in front of me while typing the above stuff.

A lot of test channels (5) floating around... I wonder why...
Brav_..., InH_..., HDNe_..., HDN_ _ovies..., NB_... [All purely speculation!! - I know nothing! - Just Wishful thinking!]

I guess we'll have to see what happens August 1st, "cause they ain't announcin diddly squat" and that seems to be the launch dates rumors on the net. I don't think we've locally missed a launch date yet, have we?

vegggas

Channel 732 (ABC) has been "tiling" for the last 10 days or so. Also, just random picture dropouts at times. I called Cox last weekend and they admitted that they were seeing problems at the head-end. They said it must be a channel 13 problem. I called channel 13 and they said they did not know of any problems on their digital feed both OTA and to Cox. So who knows? I hope they get this fixed before football season.

Keith

Anyone getting a "halo effect" on their TV? I get it on Mitsu projection with all signals (D*, OTA and DVD). Also on Sony SD tube type. My soninlaw just got Sony projection and upgraded to Cox digital. He gets it too. Yesterday I went to Best Buy and all their display TVs had it too. Had Mitsu service tech recently and he claimed it was a weak signal. No way. DVD does not use a "signal". It is especially annoying with small text on the screen. It is real fuzzy and difficult to read. Best Buy salesman said try "Monster Power". Anyone using it and does it help? Thanks.

benspal: I use a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet, and it works very well. It reduced the background noise, and yielded much richer colors. My wife (who couldn't care less about any of this stuff) even remarked how much nicer the picture was. That was all the feedback I needed...;)

anyone know whether Cox will roll out INHD when it debuts 9/1?? i have heard that cox, time-warner and comcast will have it. they (InHD) are running a preview right now but obviously we aren't getting that on cox at this point.

-jb

bcoombs: thanks for the info. I just might give it a try.

Need help with OTA antenna, friend just purchased a sony hd200 directv unit. He is located near G.V pkwy and wigwam. What type of OTA antenna will work in this area. He tried a terk 42 and could only get 2 OTA channels.

lionsfan, I am at 95 & Durango, and use an RCA indoor antenna (about $18). I receive CBS, FOX, and PBS, just fine (80-95 signal strength). I have some trouble with the other channels though, which I'll address before the fall season. :)