And hopefully, the kick to live bug is fixed in this release....
While recording Jericho last night, I did the rewind thing and was watching it. Playing catchup, I was still watching the end when it went to 9PM and stopping recording. It did not kick out to live and allowed me to finish the program. Very nice!

The new 4x is really not intended for commercial skipping. It's handy when you need to get halfway thru a long program.

As for the new update...Everything is the same font style and size now in the basic info screen that shows up on the bottom of the screen. I think it's a little harder to read than before. The new 4x FF and RW is a welcome addition. And hopefully, the kick to live bug is fixed in this release....and also the bad resolution when using Copy to VCR mode.


As posted earlier.. all the new version update/changes can be found here:
scroll down a little more than halfway down the page to see specific software version update info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859&page=1&pp=20

Hmm, looks like it's about time to post the HD channel list again.

In a nutshell:

Dish has the most HD channels now, but you need an antenna to get your locals.

Cox has you locals in HD, a decent selection of HD cable networks and the best selection of HD premiums.

DirecTV should have the most HD channels by the end of the year, but for now their main attraction is locals in HD and Sunday Ticket.

The only unqualified recommendation I can make is that if you live outside of the Cox service area and you can't get HD OTA, you should go ahead and sign up for DirecTV.


Las Vegas HD Channel Guide

Broadcast Networks OTA Cox DirecTV Dish
------------------ ----- ----- --------- ------
ABC (KTNV) 13-1 732 13
CBS (KLAS) 8-1 730 8
Fox (KVVU) 5-1 735 5
NBC (KVBC) 3-1 733 3
PBS (KLVX) 10-1 731
CW (KVCW) 33-1
MyTV (KVMY) 21-1

Cable Networks (*part time)
------------------
A&E HD 9419
Discovery HD 700 76 9421
ESPN HD 704 73 9424
ESPN2 HD 705 72 9425
Food Network HD 9462
HDNet 79 9422
HDNet Movies 78 9423
HGTV HD 9461
INHD 706
MHD 725
National Geographic 9429
NBA TV HD 707* 95* 9466*
NFL Network HD 707* 95* 9464
TNT HD 709 75 9420
Universal HD 708 74 9427

Premium Networks (*East Coast Feed)
------------------
HBO HD 710 70* 9456*
Cinemax HD 711
Showtime HD 720 71* 9460*
Starz HD 721 9435*

Voom Networks
------------------
Animania HD 9474
Equator HD 9471
Family Room HD 9486
Film Fest HD 9480
Gallery HD 9472
GamePlay HD 9485
HDNews 9482
Kung Fu HD 9479
Monsters HD 9481
Rave HD 9470
Rush HD 9476
Treasure HD 9477
Ultra HD 9478
World Cinema HD 9475
WorldSport HD 9473

Hey Word Maestro, Dish Network fights for the consumer, even Cable:

http://www.skyreport.com/?HDPictures.com

"DISH Cries Foul Over DIRECTV/MLB Deal

As of press time late Wednesday, the scuttlebutt was that DIRECTV and Major League Baseball were close to announcing a deal that would give the satellite TV giant exclusive access to the game's out-of-market games.

That's not sitting well with at least one competitor.

In response, EchoStar put out a statement saying "a line had been crossed" and promising to "take a stand" to fight the exclusive deal, which would give DIRECTV sole access to the league's Extra Innings out-of-market package.

"When our customers are suddenly cut off from watching their favorite sports teams on TV, it is time to ask whether the market is working. This is both anti-competitive and anti-consumer," EchoStar said in a statement.

The No. 2 satellite TV company also said it was concerned by news that "DIRECTV will be able to block over 85 percent of U.S. pay-TV subscribers from watching out-of-market Major League Baseball games. After all, baseball is the American pastime."

The company, which operates DISH Network, added, "This recent move by DIRECTV is particularly egregious given that these games until now have been carried by multiple cable and satellite TV providers. Thus, we will be forced to take away valuable programming from existing subscribers who depend on EchoStar to receive all their television channels.

"Consumers will be harmed - especially if they are forced to change providers, switch to a higher-priced service, or invest in new equipment." A DIRECTV/MLB agreement also may not sit well with lawmakers. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) has promised hearings on such a deal. Another senator, Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter, also has criticized the rumored exclusive for the DBS company.

As the rumor made its way around industry press, sources valued a DIRECTV/Major League Baseball deal for the Extra Innings package at $700 million. There's been no word from DIRECTV."

1)Hey Word Maestro, Dish Network fights for the consumer,

2)The No. 2 satellite TV company also said it was concerned by news that "DIRECTV will be able to block over 85 percent of U.S. pay-TV subscribers from watching out-of-market Major League Baseball games.


1. Yeah, they're fighting, but they're gonna lose the battle.

2. The MLB "Extra Innings" package will remain unchanged from previous years. The "Blockages" you speak of simply mean that Dish and Cable companies will no longer be able to carry it.

Since an anti-sports person such as you, doesn't care for sports anyway, what's the difference to you?

Whenever I ask about the quality of local HDs as provided by Direct Tv, foghorn2 immediatedly tells me how bad it is compared to Dish and Tivo Series 3. As I understand it "Dish" does NOT carry local HD programming (an additional antrenna must be used), so that argument is moot.
I would appreciate it if some other users would give their opinions of Tivo/Series3/ local HD using the Cox feed and Cable Cards vs the local HD programming quality (NOT QUANTITY) as provided by Direct TV.

Thank Youi.

Hey Word Maestro, Dish Network fights for the consumer, even Cable:

http://www.skyreport.com/?HDPictures.com

"DISH Cries Foul Over DIRECTV/MLB Deal

"When our customers are suddenly cut off from watching their favorite sports teams on TV, it is time to ask whether the market is working. This is both anti-competitive and anti-consumer," EchoStar said in a statement.


If E* was going to provide exclusive coverage of a sport, you can bet that they would not be asking that question.
This is the way that capitalism works: Whoever is willing to pay the asking price gets the product.
I think it's a shame that E* is whining about a business move by a competitor that may make that competitor's product more attractive to the consumer.
If they want the exclusive broadcast rights to MLB, they should simply outbid D* for those rights.

If E* was going to provide exclusive coverage of a sport, you can bet that they would not be asking that question.
This is the way that capitalism works: Whoever is willing to pay the asking price gets the product.
I think it's a shame that E* is whining about a business move by a competitor that may make that competitor's product more attractive to the consumer.
If they want the exclusive broadcast rights to MLB, they should simply outbid D* for those rights.

You do not know how capitalism works. Monopolies is Socialism and that is what DTV has with MLB.

Whenever I ask about the quality of local HDs as provided by Direct Tv, foghorn2 immediatedly tells me how bad it is compared to Dish and Tivo Series 3. As I understand it "Dish" does NOT carry local HD programming (an additional antrenna must be used), so that argument is moot.
I would appreciate it if some other users would give their opinions of Tivo/Series3/ local HD using the Cox feed and Cable Cards vs the local HD programming quality (NOT QUANTITY) as provided by Direct TV.

Thank Youi.

Thats because the PQ coming out of the SA boxes from Cox suck compared to the Dish Box using OTA and the Tivo 3 using cable cards OR OTA.

Also Cox DOES NOT carry all the locals in HD nor does DTV.

To get all the locals in HD with Cox, you will have to get an OTA antenna and an ATSC tuner.

To get all the local HDs with DTV you will have to get an antenna and deal with the crappy tuner in their STB. When you go this route, getting the HD locals through DTV wouldn't matter because the OTA signal will still be miles better the the compressed HD signals from DTV.

Thats because the PQ coming out of the SA boxes from Cox suck compared to the Dish Box using OTA and the Tivo 3 using cable cards OR OTA.

Vegggas has said more than once that Cox does not re-compress the OTA channels. The picture will be the exact same as using an antenna to get the signals OTA. If you are seening a difference, then it is because you must have a connection problem. I have compared OTA with antenna vs. the 8300HD via componet cables and could not see a difference on a Sony 56-inch HDTV.

It might be time to replace older cables; or upgrade to some better high-end cables between your STB and HDTV. Monster Cables are truly overpriced...but they will make a difference. Search around AVS and you can find some cables that perform as well as Monster for less cost.

Vegggas has said more than once that Cox does not re-compress the OTA channels. The picture will be the exact same as using an antenna to get the signals OTA. If you are seening a difference, then it is because you must have a connection problem. I have compared OTA with antenna vs. the 8300HD via componet cables and could not see a difference on a Sony 56-inch HDTV.

It might be time to replace older cables; or upgrade to some better high-end cables between your STB and HDTV. Monster Cables are truly overpriced...but they will make a difference. Search around AVS and you can find some cables that perform as well as Monster for less cost.

I had overlapping service with Dish and Cox, the PQ on Local HD is better with the Dish box than the SA with the Qam signal with the same cables. If you read my post carefully again you will understand what I meant. It has to do with the STB, not the originating signal.

1.Also Cox DOES NOT carry all the locals in HD nor does DTV.

2.To get all the locals in HD with Cox, you will have to get an OTA antenna and an ATSC tuner.



1. As far as I'm concerned the "locals" mean the local network affiliates. CBS,ABC, NBC, FOX, PBS. I couldn't care less about the really local yokels.
2. Isn't that a bit oxymoronic? If you need an OTA and an ATSC tuner, how am I getting the locals WITH Cox?

You do not know how capitalism works. Monopolies is Socialism and that is what DTV has with MLB.

Yeah, right.
That's why all the networks are free to broadcast the Superbowl, World Series and Olympics. Also why sports bars can feel free to show the SB on any size screen without compensating NFL.
Get a grip. Broadcasting is a business, and whoever negotiates the best deal is going to get broadcast rights.

......... Isn't that a bit oxymoronic? If you need an OTA and an ATSC tuner, how am I getting the locals WITH Cox?

oxymoronic?

You don't and can't get locals with COX with an ota antenna and atsc tuner.

Thats why the local digitals from are not truly digital from the source unless its the HD version, which in this case is bit for bit identical as the ota signal once its extracted.

With DTV, you get some of the locals from the sats in HD which are lower quality because of the compression. You will need to use their HD DVR and an antenna to get all the locals in HD making the point of getting a degraded version from DTV moot.

With Dish you get none of the local HD's, forcing you to use their HD box and an antenna to get ALL the locals HD's in the finest form. :)

I know for some of you all this is very hard to understand.

I actually just moved and DirecTV installed a 5LNB dish and HR20 HD DVR at my new place today. (Before anybody tries to convert me, I'll say that Cox and OTA were not options, so it was the only way for me to get HD locals).

So far I haven't noticed any appreciable difference between the satellite delivered HD locals and what I got OTA. I'm sure you could tell subtle differences in side by side comparison, but until the translators upgrade to digital HDTV I'll take what I can get.

And for Word Maestro, you get 3, 5, 8, and 13 in HD from DirecTV. Unfortunately they don't carry PBS HD anywhere yet.

foghorn2,

Fyi....

D*=DirecTV
DTV=Digital Television

Just wanted to clarify so that it doesn't cause any confusion. :)

I actually just moved and DirecTV installed a 5LNB dish and HR20 HD DVR at my new place today. (Before anybody tries to convert me, I'll say that Cox and OTA were not options, so it was the only way for me to get HD locals).

So far I haven't noticed any appreciable difference between the satellite delivered HD locals and what I got OTA. I'm sure you could tell subtle differences in side by side comparison, but until the translators upgrade to digital HDTV I'll take what I can get.

And for Word Maestro, you get 3, 5, 8, and 13 in HD from DirecTV. Unfortunately they don't carry PBS HD anywhere yet.

George,
I thank you for your civilized response (unlike those offered by some other posters) to my inquiries. I stopped by Best Buy yesterday and watched some "LIVE" broadcasts in HD being supplied by the Direct TV HD-20 (although not the DVR version of that). They tuned to ESPN-HD ("Live" Basketball). I must say that the PQ was in every way comparable (and in fact --better) to the best that Cox has to offer with its 8300HD. I have not seen any OTA "live" telecast using either an indoor or outdoor antenna. But can't imagine that they could be much better than what I saw yesterday.
None of the stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc) receive the "locals" -CBS,NBC,FOX,ABC in HD from Direct TV, so I can't compare them to what Cox provides. So let me ask you a very simple question, for which I hope you can provide a very simple answer...

Do the "locals" (CBS,NBC,Fox, ABC in HD) as supplied by the HD-20 DVR that you now have, appear to be of :

1. Better Picture quality than that provided by Cox?
2. Worse Picture quality than that provided by Cox?
3. Comparable Picture quality to that provided by Cox?

Thank You

George,
I thank you for your civilized response (unlike those offered by some other posters) to my inquiries. I stopped by Best Buy yesterday and watched some "LIVE" broadcasts in HD being supplied by the Direct TV HD-20 (although not the DVR version of that). They tuned to ESPN-HD ("Live" Basketball). I must say that the PQ was in every way comparable (and in fact --better) to the best that Cox has to offer with its 8300HD.

Let me get this straight - you based this off a HDTV in Best Buy :eek:

Interesting that you also used a 720p channel as well.

Having seen HDNET Movies and DiscoveryHD via D* on 2 properly adjusted Qualias at the Sony Store in Caesars last year, the comments you make are comical.

I suppose that if you get a HDTV and have it misadjusted as they do at Best Buy that everything will look equally as bad - no matter the source.

Fine, but how do you do that at age 71, after two open heart surgeries and a leg amputation?

Somehow he managed to make it to Best Buy to check out the sets :D

And if you don't leave His Highness alone, He will take that good leg, and KICK your ass. hahahah

Oh the Humanity

PT

oxymoronic?

You don't and can't get locals with COX with an ota antenna and atsc tuner.

Thats why the local digitals from are not truly digital from the source unless its the HD version, which in this case is bit for bit identical as the ota signal once its extracted.

With DTV, you get some of the locals from the sats in HD which are lower quality because of the compression. You will need to use their HD DVR and an antenna to get all the locals in HD making the point of getting a degraded version from DTV moot.

With Dish you get none of the local HD's, forcing you to use their HD box and an antenna to get ALL the locals HD's in the finest form. :)

I know for some of you all this is very hard to understand.

this is not fully accurate.

no matter your service provider, you can get OTA HD provided that you have a tuner and a decent signal. that tuner can be inside your tv or in an external box, like an htpc or the STB from DirecTV or Dish. The only devices that CANNOT tune OTA HD are Cox cable boxes and TV's without ATSC tuners.

if you have cable, the locals are provided by QAM. most people use their STB to tune QAM, especially if they have an HD DVR. But if your TV has a QAM tuner can you tune Cox HD feeds directly on your TV. You can even use a device called HDHomeRun to tune them on your HTPC. If you add a cablecard into the mix, you can get premium channels. It's an FCC regulation.

It may be true that the Cox STB has bad PQ due to a poor video processor. I know this was the case for me in Seattle, but that was with a motorola box. I don't have Cox so I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt it. Therefore, if I had Cox and i wanted the best PQ possible, i'd use an HTPC and/or a cablecard and/or a TivoS3.

I have DirecTV and personally I find their HD local PQ to be crap. I haven't watched it for so long that I don't know if they NBC and CBS feeds still have the 8mm effect, but that made 1080i content truly unwatchable. They will fix this at some point if they haven't already and once fixed, the DirecTV HD quality for locals will be pretty good. Certainly a discerning eye will notice the difference in PQ, but for 90+% of people, it will be good enough. But if you want the best PQ and you have DirecTV, plan on using an OTA antenna. EDIT: You can also use cable, probably just not the Cox box. QAM/CableCard/HDHomerun/TivoS3 will be the best options.

One last thing I'd note. The HR20 provides very good PQ, even for SD content. But that's the only good thing I'll say about it. it's the absolute worst DVR in the world. The interface is far better than the Cox DVR, but the problem is that it just doesn't work reliably, at least for me. I'd estimate about 1/3 of the HR20 users have serious reliability issues with the box. I can't recommend agains tthe HR20 strongly enough, with this caveat: if you happen to get an HR20 that is reliable, it's a pretty good DVR. But once you start getting the box freezing in the middle of recordings, deleting recordings by accident, or missing recordings, you'll realize how worthless it is. For me, a DVR needs to be nearly 100% to be worthwhile. What's the point of recording your favorite show if 1 in 10 episodes will be dropped? 1 in 200 or so might be acceptable, but anything worse sucks.

Anyway, that's more than I intended to write. But the summary is that if PQ is your top priority and you mainly care about HD locals, and you can get a decent OTA signal (especially KVBC), then get an HTPC. Otherwise go with a cable solution.

But if you care about things like NFLST, D* is a decent solution. Just be prepared for nightmares with the HR20.

2. Is the HR- 20 HD-DVR as provided by DirectV, equal to, better than, or worse than the 8300HD as provided by Cox Cable?

Costs are NOT a factor.

Get Cox and TiVO Series3 unless you need some content that is on D* if costs are not a factor. The D* DVR sucks, in terms of reliability. Also, the TiVO will give you better PQ. (Well, actually, the local HD signal will be better, resulting in better PQ.)

You can also get a Vista cablecard box (velocity micro sells the most affordable that i've seen). You can also get a media center box and then use HD home run.

but if you want a simple easy to use thing that will just work, tivo is the best bet.

i strongly recommend against going with D*. I am a D* customer and i never use my HR20. it is just too unreliable. (I do leave it on all the time and play with it sometimes to see when it gets reliable, but it still sucks.)

Just visit dbstalk.com and peruse the HR20 forums if you want to see the pain and suffering you will go through with the HR20.

Especially i double warn you: don't get the HR20 if you ahve a wife or girlfriend. They will kill you when the HR20 dumps this week's ER or Gray's Anatomy.

My scheduled recordings are all fine for the upcoming week. However, for Sunday March 4, all of the programs that are scheduled during the week are listed again for that date. Has this happened to anyone else, or is it just me? I also posted this on 8300 problems board, curious as to whether it might be specifically a Cox LV problem.

Hask

Anyody else?
comments?

vegggas

I was away on travel last week and was pleasantly surprised to find the upgrade when I came home. The 4x ff is OK but I don't need it anymore since you can start an in progress recording from the beginning and you don't get booted out when the in progress recording is done. Its about time.

My scheduled recordings are all fine for the upcoming week. However, for Sunday March 4, all of the programs that are scheduled during the week are listed again for that date. Has this happened to anyone else, or is it just me? I also posted this on 8300 problems board, curious as to whether it might be specifically a Cox LV problem.

Hask
Confirmed. I have the same issue, where about a dozen items are listed as being on 3/4, but not highlighed in the IPG. I think it might be an IPG issue not getting updated. On closer inspection, it looks like all the items listed for Sunday are set for recording NEW or FIRST RUN items, but all the episodes listed are re-runs. This would make them place holders of up to a week to keep your season pass active, but not record repeats.
DO NOT CHANGE OR MODIFY YOUR RECORDINGS SCHEDULES!! Let the IPG continue to update. If you check your upcoming scheduled recordings, you will notice that there is no info for recordings that won't happen, and they are all repeats.
I'm going to copy this to the main 8300 thread linked in my sig.
vegggas

edit - You say you posted this on the 8300 problems thread? What's that?
The tips and tricks thread is the only SARA based thread with info for us that is of any use. There is another thread, forgot which one, but it's only a complaint forum for users who use HDMI. It's just a list of complaints for users having issues with HDMI and no answers.
v

this is not fully accurate.

no matter your service provider, you can get OTA HD provided that you have a tuner and a decent signal. that tuner can be inside your tv or in an external box, like an htpc or the STB from DirecTV or Dish. The only devices that CANNOT tune OTA HD are Cox cable boxes and TV's without ATSC tuners.

if you have cable, the locals are provided by QAM. most people use their STB to tune QAM, especially if they have an HD DVR. But if your TV has a QAM tuner can you tune Cox HD feeds directly on your TV. You can even use a device called HDHomeRun to tune them on your HTPC. If you add a cablecard into the mix, you can get premium channels. It's an FCC regulation.

It may be true that the Cox STB has bad PQ due to a poor video processor. I know this was the case for me in Seattle, but that was with a motorola box. I don't have Cox so I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt it. Therefore, if I had Cox and i wanted the best PQ possible, i'd use an HTPC and/or a cablecard and/or a TivoS3.

I have DirecTV and personally I find their HD local PQ to be crap. I haven't watched it for so long that I don't know if they NBC and CBS feeds still have the 8mm effect, but that made 1080i content truly unwatchable. They will fix this at some point if they haven't already and once fixed, the DirecTV HD quality for locals will be pretty good. Certainly a discerning eye will notice the difference in PQ, but for 90+% of people, it will be good enough. But if you want the best PQ and you have DirecTV, plan on using an OTA antenna. EDIT: You can also use cable, probably just not the Cox box. QAM/CableCard/HDHomerun/TivoS3 will be the best options.

One last thing I'd note. The HR20 provides very good PQ, even for SD content. But that's the only good thing I'll say about it. it's the absolute worst DVR in the world. The interface is far better than the Cox DVR, but the problem is that it just doesn't work reliably, at least for me. I'd estimate about 1/3 of the HR20 users have serious reliability issues with the box. I can't recommend agains tthe HR20 strongly enough, with this caveat: if you happen to get an HR20 that is reliable, it's a pretty good DVR. But once you start getting the box freezing in the middle of recordings, deleting recordings by accident, or missing recordings, you'll realize how worthless it is. For me, a DVR needs to be nearly 100% to be worthwhile. What's the point of recording your favorite show if 1 in 10 episodes will be dropped? 1 in 200 or so might be acceptable, but anything worse sucks.

Anyway, that's more than I intended to write. But the summary is that if PQ is your top priority and you mainly care about HD locals, and you can get a decent OTA signal (especially KVBC), then get an HTPC. Otherwise go with a cable solution.

But if you care about things like NFLST, D* is a decent solution. Just be prepared for nightmares with the HR20.

An HTPC running windows might give you great PQ but nowhere in reality will it ever outdo a true STB. If you really want to be prepared for nightnmnightmares then go ahead and use VISTA and the upcoming cable card pc tuners :eek:

"For me, a DVR needs to be nearly 100% to be worthwhile." OK so then you recommend a PC? PLEASE!!!! I'd use a clunk Volvo like the SA8300 or the Pinto HR20 over an HTPC for reliability any day.

I've tried them all and all I can tell you is to get a TIVO 3 with a cable card and get most of your locals through COX, or the same STB with OTA antenna all the locals, or the Dish Vip622 with an antenna to get ALL the locals for the best PQ and HD DVR capabilities.

If you don't need a DVR, use your ATSC tuner in your TV or go out and buy and Samsung ATSC tuner or the likes with an OTA antenna.

If you can't get the OTA signals, you are stuck with COX and D for your local HD.

As a last resort, I'd then settle for an HTPC. This can be useful for archiving HD shows from OTA, as this is the only was to easily do so.

Have you even used Vista or are you just relaying feelings you have by reading web sites. In my view Vista is the best Windows based operating system. I haven't had it crash once. Now just like everything else there is will be initial problems with the cablecards, because quite frankly cablecards are a piece of garbage in my opinion. The cynical side of me says the cable companies did that on purpose, but we've been down that road quite a few times. Now if these boxes that the CE companies come out with are about the size of the Mac Mini I wouldn't have a problem using Media Center in Vista as a DVR. It does have it's advantages, especially if you like downloaded media.

Cox is getting better at notifying customers of potential outages..I just got a letter from them stating "cox communications is in the process of enhancing its network to provide you with the latest technologies......will be replacing network equipment that supports your service area. As a result, it is possible you may experience temporary disruptions to your Cox Digital Cable and Cox High-Speed Internet." They state that this equipment change is for "enhanced Cox services for you in the future"

anyone know what these future enhancements may be?

Have you even used Vista or are you just relaying feelings you have by reading web sites. In my view Vista is the best Windows based operating system. I haven't had it crash once. Now just like everything else there is will be initial problems with the cablecards, because quite frankly cablecards are a piece of garbage in my opinion. The cynical side of me says the cable companies did that on purpose, but we've been down that road quite a few times. Now if these boxes that the CE companies come out with are about the size of the Mac Mini I wouldn't have a problem using Media Center in Vista as a DVR. It does have it's advantages, especially if you like downloaded media.

Yes, I have Vista on one of my PCs. Its all show and no substance. The new browser really takes real estate away, you have to click several times into nested choices to turn the damn thing off, you have to be asked with stupid dialog boxes if you try to make any system changes... I could go on and on.

And it does crash. It is too fat and lethargic to do anything efficiently. What a waste of time. The industry knows people are sick of Windows and CE devices are taking ground, so this is MS attempt to monopolize on that. What a bunch of monopoly minded SOCIALISTS.

I would never run an HTPC with Vista with all the fat and DRM just to watch local HD.

jedster,

What software version are you running on your HR20 and have you even performed a full factory reset?

Mine upgraded to 0x12a upon install and hasn't had a single issue so far.

Anyhow, if you need Sunday Ticket, Extra Innings, or live outside of the Vegas valley, there are no other options anyways since Dish Network doesn't seem to have any plans to add Las Vegas HD locals in the next two years.

Could anyone tell me if the current D* TV HD reciever, I assume its the HR20, would work well with the old Sony HS10 Projector?

You know what foghorn why don't you go back and use DOS 6.22. It's not all show and plenty efficient. It should run really fast on these new computers.

So do you think we should use XP forever. I for one would rather be asked before I make system changes then have some rouge program or website change stuff behind my back. If you don't like it turn it off.

What would you like Microsoft to do. Go out of business. If they don't update their software they won't even be a company. Would you rather them charge you a monthly fee to you their software like Cox does. Microsoft is just like any other company in this country. They want to make as much money as they can. Just because they got into computers on the ground floor doesn't mean they are SOCIALISTS.

So what substance do you think Microsoft should add?

You know what foghorn why don't you go back and use DOS 6.22. It's not all show and plenty efficient. It should run really fast on these new computers.

So do you think we should use XP forever. I for one would rather be asked before I make system changes then have some rouge program or website change stuff behind my back. If you don't like it turn it off.

What would you like Microsoft to do. Go out of business. If they don't update their software they won't even be a company. Would you rather them charge you a monthly fee to you their software like Cox does. Microsoft is just like any other company in this country. They want to make as much money as they can. Just because they got into computers on the ground floor doesn't mean they are SOCIALISTS.

So what substance do you think Microsoft should add?

They are monopolists. XP will be killed by security breaches that wont be present with Vista patches. The UI of XP can easily be manipulated to that of Vista, but why bother. The areo glass crap is just fancy.

Actually DR Dos 6.0 would have been just fine. I remember all those programs and games that ran just fine. Not to mention OS/2. Heck even windows 3.1 program manager would be a cleaner, easier interface than Vista. I'm not joking.

The reason why people like Tivo and other DVR's is because they are not PC's RUNNING WINDOWS. The times are a changing and PC's are dead except for web browsing. Web browsing can bring trojans and viruses which perpetuates the software sales. Its a silly game and I wish they can just bring web browsing to my STB so I can get rid of these crappy PC's.

Ever wonder why pc are selling so cheap, not to mention laptops? THEY ARE DEAD!

The computer revolution is over thanks to the monontonous monopoly.

Could anyone tell me if the current D* TV HD reciever, I assume its the HR20, would work well with the old Sony HS10 Projector?

Yes. It will definitely work over the component inputs. The specs I Googled conflict on whether it supports HDCP, so it may or may not also work over HDMI with an HDMI-DVI cable.

There are two current D* HD receivers. The H20 is a plain single tuner receiver and you will probably be able to lease it with no upfront fee. The HR20 is a dual tuner HD DVR and there may be an up to $199 upfront fee to lease one depending on your customer history, existing equipment, and CSR roulette.

If you upgrade your receiver, make sure to get the new 5LNB dish installed it that same time as it will give you satellite delivered Las Vegas HD locals now, and some time towards the end of the year hopefully 50-70 new HD channels.

An HTPC running windows might give you great PQ but nowhere in reality will it ever outdo a true STB. If you really want to be prepared for nightnmnightmares then go ahead and use VISTA and the upcoming cable card pc tuners :eek:

"For me, a DVR needs to be nearly 100% to be worthwhile." OK so then you recommend a PC? PLEASE!!!! I'd use a clunk Volvo like the SA8300 or the Pinto HR20 over an HTPC for reliability any day.

I've tried them all and all I can tell you is to get a TIVO 3 with a cable card and get most of your locals through COX, or the same STB with OTA antenna all the locals, or the Dish Vip622 with an antenna to get ALL the locals for the best PQ and HD DVR capabilities.

If you don't need a DVR, use your ATSC tuner in your TV or go out and buy and Samsung ATSC tuner or the likes with an OTA antenna.

If you can't get the OTA signals, you are stuck with COX and D for your local HD.

As a last resort, I'd then settle for an HTPC. This can be useful for archiving HD shows from OTA, as this is the only was to easily do so.

yeah an htpc was just one of the options i listed. it happens to be the setup that i use and it is very reliable. i haven't had a major issue (missed recording) for at least 9 months, and that had to do with a hardware failure.

i will say that vista's media center does truly suck. the ui is more confusing (though prettier) and there are tons of driver/software issues. and the cablecard solution hasn't even hit the market yet, despite promises otherwise.

for tv-only, tivo s3 is the way to go. i happen to like my htpc setup because i can share tv throughout the network and am able to store a variety of media -- tv, music, dvds, etc -- on a 4.5TB server. yes, that is overkill, but it's kind of cool to have all my dvds, music, and tv accessible on any tv or pc in the house. plus i like watching tv in a small window while web browsing sometimes, like when the seahawks are losing a game. ;) but doing the htpc thing all-out requires time and dedication; it's a hobby as much as anything. and it can be more expensive than the tivo, though it doesn't have monthly fees.

as for quality though i dispute your assertion that an STB is better than an HTPC. an HTPC may not be better than an STB in all cases, but in my experience, I've never seen anything better than an HTPC, and my very first HTPC had better PQ for both DVDs and TV than my faroudja-chipped DVD player and my comcast HD dvr. i doubt it's better than tivo series 3, and i know it's no better than my tv's atsc/qam tuner.

anyway, we are basically onthe same page, i just wanted to let the guy know he has a ton of options. but i think we both agree if he doesn't care about money and wants to make it simple, he should get a tivo series3.

Yes, I have Vista on one of my PCs. Its all show and no substance. The new browser really takes real estate away, you have to click several times into nested choices to turn the damn thing off, you have to be asked with stupid dialog boxes if you try to make any system changes... I could go on and on.

And it does crash. It is too fat and lethargic to do anything efficiently. What a waste of time. The industry knows people are sick of Windows and CE devices are taking ground, so this is MS attempt to monopolize on that. What a bunch of monopoly minded SOCIALISTS.

I would never run an HTPC with Vista with all the fat and DRM just to watch local HD.

it's funny how there's now more FUD coming from the MSFT bashers than MSFT these days. and i'm not speaking as an MSFT fan. i'll flat out say that OS X is way better than vista in every software design sense. but since OS X ties you to Steve Jobs hardware, i won't use it. i like the flexibility to build my own PCs. also, mac is pitiful on HTPC, though that may change.

anyway, to get substantive. by and large, in my experience, vista is more stable than xp. however, when it comes to the htpc arena, it is far less stable, mostly due video drivers being really crappy. also the mpeg2 decoders are worse than xp.

as you can guess, i run my htpc with xp media center. it's not just more stable, it has better PQ than vista, and the ui is better. plus, the $110 xp media center has remote desktop, which is critical for an htpc setup. you have to spring $200 for vista ultimate to get remote desktop. very stupid packaging decisions by microsoft -- what a disaster to have all these versions. they are horrible marketers.

as for your poor experience with ie7, i don't use ie7, in either os. firefox is far far better. why anyone would use ie7 is beyond me.

as for it being fat and lethargic, what on earth are you basing this on? i'll admit that when i first used it i couldn't figure out why compressing a dvd took twice as long. then i realizes that msft stupidly throttled the CPU in the power options. i changed the setting and it's just as fast as xp. maybe that was your problem?

it is much faster at things like loading frequently used applications and it does a better job of shutting down hard drives, which is nice to keep noise down.

by far the stupidest least defensible thing in vista is UAC. i wonder what possessed whomever decided to stick it.

anyway, on the larger point about one company wielding so much power. it is a definite problem. even though they put out a software package that is better than the previous one, it should have been much better. probably the only real long term solution is open source software. certainly not apple. but i'll bet open source gets there sooner than we think.

oh and a final last point: there is so much FUD about vista and DRM. it's total bullcrap. there is absolutely nothing that you can do in XP w/o DRM that you can't do in Vista w/o DRM. it is true that new things like cablecard will require HDCP at some point. but it's not like your prized STB doesn't also require HDCP.

like it or not, the bastards at the MPAA insist on DRM. show me one STB or HDDVD or Bluray player that has digital output without HDCP....

and yes, the MPAA is enough to make me want to **********...

jedster,

What software version are you running on your HR20 and have you even performed a full factory reset?

Mine upgraded to 0x12a upon install and hasn't had a single issue so far.

Anyhow, if you need Sunday Ticket, Extra Innings, or live outside of the Vegas valley, there are no other options anyways since Dish Network doesn't seem to have any plans to add Las Vegas HD locals in the next two years.

I don't recall off the top of my head, but I think its last update was on 2/10.

I've been a D* subscriber for 10+ years. When I first got it, I did so because I thought it was cool. Then when it came out with the first integrated TiVO/tuner I stayed with D* because they had the best DVR on the market. I suspended D* for a few months when Comcast offered a great deal in Seattle, but when I moved down here I unsuspended for the NFLST.

It really upsets me that our politicians allow a single company to have a monopoly on something like NFLST. I love watching football, and am willing to be totally screwed in order to watch it, but if our politicians had more courage to enforce antitrust principles on D*, there would be more competition and we'd all do better.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. How long have you had your DVR? I got mine in September. Perhaps more recent units are more stable? I've suspected that the issue with the HR20 is more hardware than software. I should start using it more just to see if it's gotten better. It still reboots randomly, but it hasn't done that while I've actually been watching something (I basically only use it for the premium HD channels).

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that you are just lucky to have not had any problems. Perhaps you're part of the lucky 70%, but still 30% having serious issues is not a risk worth taking.

They are monopolists. XP will be killed by security breaches that wont be present with Vista patches. The UI of XP can easily be manipulated to that of Vista, but why bother. The areo glass crap is just fancy.

Actually DR Dos 6.0 would have been just fine. I remember all those programs and games that ran just fine. Not to mention OS/2. Heck even windows 3.1 program manager would be a cleaner, easier interface than Vista. I'm not joking.

The reason why people like Tivo and other DVR's is because they are not PC's RUNNING WINDOWS. The times are a changing and PC's are dead except for web browsing. Web browsing can bring trojans and viruses which perpetuates the software sales. Its a silly game and I wish they can just bring web browsing to my STB so I can get rid of these crappy PC's.

Ever wonder why pc are selling so cheap, not to mention laptops? THEY ARE DEAD!

The computer revolution is over thanks to the monontonous monopoly.

thanks for the laugh! i assume you entered this post on dr dos, or by using tivo or something?

seriously, use linux instead of dr dos! more bang for the buck! try ubuntu or something.

and the reason why people like dvrs is because they can record tv without using videotapes! lol.

but in general i would agree with the proposition that it is a big problem that a single company wields so much power, especially when it is clear that the company is only marginally capable of understanding the needs of its customers.

So who's fault is it that the video drivers for Vista are bad? I would say it is the company writing the drivers. They have had plenty of time to write these drivers. Microsoft gave them two months after the beta was over to get them done.

If Microsoft is only marginally cabable of understanding the needs of its customers then why haven't anyone else (Apple included) come up with anything better. I have both a Vista machine and an OSX machine. They both do the same thing only different. It's like the difference between a Nissan and a Honda.

UAC was added to Vista to stop things from being installed or modified without your permission. Mac has the same thing. They just did it a little different.

So who's fault is it that the video drivers for Vista are bad? I would say it is the company writing the drivers. They have had plenty of time to write these drivers. Microsoft gave them two months after the beta was over to get them done.

If Microsoft is only marginally cabable of understanding the needs of its customers then why haven't anyone else (Apple included) come up with anything better. I have both a Vista machine and an OSX machine. They both do the same thing only different. It's like the difference between a Nissan and a Honda.

UAC was added to Vista to stop things from being installed or modified without your permission. Mac has the same thing. They just did it a little different.

oh come on. first of all, like you, i'm generally happy with microsoft. but i don't understand the need to defend everything they do.

look, vista is a major improvement over xp in almost every way. things like networking, backups, ui, stability, speed (not benchmarks but real world stuff), are all better.

but vista isn't perfect. UAC is the most glaring example. first of all, it's far more annoying than the analagous OSX/Unix feature. for example, i had to go through UAC 3 times just to change the timing delay on my HD power down. second of all, it's less secure -- UAC doesn't require user authentication, which sort of defeats the purpose.

now as far as microsoft knowing the needs of its customers and your question about why hasn't apple come up with anything better? well first of all i'd say that OS X is in fact better as a piece of software. however, i stick with msft because (a) it gives me more hardware options and (b) because i've invested a lot in windows equipement and (c) the htpc software is better. moreover, vista was a total ripoff of other OS's, just as the orignal windows were. but that's fine -- i'm all for embracing and extending.

but all that misses the real point: microsoft is not optimized for pleasing the customer. they are optimized for selling software. part of that involves addressing their customer needs, but they also use things like their monopoly to sell software.

the best 3 examples of msft not understanding customers are:

a) UAC just sucks. take a poll on it. i'll be 90+% of people find it annoying and i'll bet at least 50% turn it off permanently.
b) Vista Media Center sucks. it is way too busy as far as the ui goes.
c) the way vista was packaged sucks. office 2007 too. there are just too many editions. not customer friendly at all.

here's a 4th for bonus points: i bought xp mce2005 oem (2 copies) so that i could get a vista home premium upgrade. i sent my "express upgrade" request in online on january 30. not only was it not free (i had to pay $20+ shipping), but i have not yet received it!

don't get me wrong, on the whole i am pleased with vista. but being a slave to msft is not in my best interest and i am optimistic that one day soon i'll be switching to a completely open source platform, probably in the next 5 years.

last point: you are right about the drivers. i can't believe nvidia screwed up so bad on this. i will say that if i were microsoft i would have made sure that they didn't screw up, but i can't really "blame" microsoft. but regardless of who is at fault, it's vista's customers that are the most hurt. it's sort of like if toyota released a new car that required a different mixture of gasoline, but the dominant gas station didn't mix the gas right. sure it's the gas station's fault, but if toyota is smart, they'd have made sure the gas station had gotten things right to begin with. otherwise people won't buy their new car. just like people aren't using vista if they want the best possible htpc experience.

i suspect that within 3-6 months things will be good enough on vista to switch, especially when and if directv comes out with its tuner card.

[QUOTE=lvthunder]...
"If Microsoft is only marginally cabable of understanding the needs of its customers then why haven't anyone else (Apple included) come up with anything better....."

Because WacoSoft already has a monopoly. As for the other, look who owns shares in Crapple and tell me they don't pull the strings.

it's funny how there's now more FUD coming from the MSFT bashers than MSFT these days. and i'm not speaking as an MSFT fan. i'll ...

Vista is all about FUD. Thats why they say its more secure. IE runs in protected mode. Why doesn't IE run protected mode in XP or 2000?

FUD

You guys need to take this MS discussion to a more appropriate thread somewher else :confused:

You guys need to take this MS discussion to a more appropriate thread somewher else :confused:

I agree, someone here wanted to say how great a HTPC with windows is compared to a DVR STB for viewing locals and I just wanted to tell them how it wasn't so great. I'm done with the argument.

I agree, someone here wanted to say how great a HTPC with windows is compared to a DVR STB for viewing locals and I just wanted to tell them how it wasn't so great. I'm done with the argument.

a) I was responding to your claim that "You don't and can't get locals with COX with an ota antenna and atsc tuner". This of course is not true -- you can have Cox, and also have an ota antenna and atsc tuner. Actually, if you don't want premium HD channels and don't have a QAM tuner, this is a pretty good way to go (assuming you don't want a DVR). As long as you have a TV with an ATSC tuner, just subscribe to Cox basic and get an antenna and you'll have your CNN, comedy channel, etc + locals in HD.

b) I never said anything about Windows. I recommended an HTPC and/or cablecard and/or TivoS3 for the best PQ and I am indisputably correct in that recommendation. (Obviously an HTPC could run Linux + MythTV, for example.)

c) Al Gore never said he invented the Internet. But you can believe what you want...

I don't recall off the top of my head, but I think its last update was on 2/10.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. How long have you had your DVR? I got mine in September. Perhaps more recent units are more stable? I've suspected that the issue with the HR20 is more hardware than software. I should start using it more just to see if it's gotten better. It still reboots randomly, but it hasn't done that while I've actually been watching something (I basically only use it for the premium HD channels).

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that you are just lucky to have not had any problems. Perhaps you're part of the lucky 70%, but still 30% having serious issues is not a risk worth taking.

Your unit should upgrade itself today to 0x0134.

I've only had it for about ten days, but everything seems to work (recording 2 programs while watching another, perfect sync on the mpeg 4 locals, even undocumented stuff like the 90 minute standby buffer.) I am well aware that the early versions of the software on the HR20 were nearly useless, but it seems to have matured into a product that's quite usable.

If your unit hasn't improved after the recent software, perhaps you should follow up on you suspicion that early hardware is more buggy and ask DirecTV to exchange yours for a new unit.

Your unit should upgrade itself today to 0x0134.

I've only had it for about ten days, but everything seems to work (recording 2 programs while watching another, perfect sync on the mpeg 4 locals, even undocumented stuff like the 90 minute standby buffer.) I am well aware that the early versions of the software on the HR20 were nearly useless, but it seems to have matured into a product that's quite usable.

If your unit hasn't improved after the recent software, perhaps you should follow up on you suspicion that early hardware is more buggy and ask DirecTV to exchange yours for a new unit.

Last night, I was having more bad problems -- the unit wouldn't ff after pausing live tv for example. THis was pre 0x0134. Last night that arrived. Then, this morning, I forced a complete reset back to factory settings. I also turned off native mode and forced 720p pillar box. I've heard people saying that native mode causes instability -- do you have it on or off? I figure I'm not losing much by disabling 1080i output since D* at least currently does HD-lite which means 1080i only has 1280 horizontal lines anyway, at least for the MPEG2 channels. Not sure about NBC or CBS. (KVBC has such a bad PQ in Vegas anyway that you might as well watch it in 480p half the time, even when you're getting a perfect antenna signal.)

Anyway, long story short, I've had the unit on without a hiccup since the factory reset and the native mode going off. No issues at all. It would really be nice if this continues....but we'll see. It's only been 12 hours....

Oh, have you noticed whether or not they've finally fixed the 8mm effect on 1080i (KVBC and KLAS)? It looks like they have to me, but it's really harder to pick up on things that aren't sports. I guess we'll see when the tournament arrives. And of course since ATSC is now enabled you can just use that instead.

(On a side note, when I opened the HR20 up, the OTA tuners inside looked like they were the same as the tuners on my VBoxx Cat's Eye tuner card, which are regarded as extremely good ATSC tuners.)

EDIT: Here's an interesting article from PC Magazine on the HR20. It is very balanced. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2097242,00.asp

^^

I don't use native mode since the time it take my tv to sync up to the signal doesn't allow for channel surfing.

As for the 8mm effect, I've caught pieces of basketball games on KLAS and they look fine.

I wonder if you could read of your signal readings from 99 and 103 to me. My setup isn't inside the valley anymore so I wonder if I'm getting the 100 signal strength on the LA locals and a marginal signal strength on the Vegas locals or the other way around.

^^

I don't use native mode since the time it take my tv to sync up to the signal doesn't allow for channel surfing.

As for the 8mm effect, I've caught pieces of basketball games on KLAS and they look fine.

I wonder if you could read of your signal readings from 99 and 103 to me. My setup isn't inside the valley anymore so I wonder if I'm getting the 100 signal strength on the LA locals and a marginal signal strength on the Vegas locals or the other way around.

I skipped all the n/a's since i assume they are the same for us. These are my other readings:

99: 0 99 0 0 0 100
103: 24 0 0 0 0 0 0

Also, I've frequently gotten a "failed" message on 99 when doing a system test. I think 103 also. Apparently that is (or was) a bug.

On another note, I'm getting a lot of strange skipping on KVBC right now. Wish I had my H20 hooked up so I could see if it's an HR20 issue or not. The video is fine, but the audio every little bit sort of stutters to the point that my receiver loses track that it's getting a DD5.1 signal.

Here are the HR20 signal strength readings out in Pahrump:

99: 0 100 0 0 0 100
103: 63 53 0 0 57 62

It's pretty safe to assume that the Las Vegas HD locals are on 99 transponder 2 and/or 6.

Here are the HR20 signal strength readings out in Pahrump:

99: 0 100 0 0 0 100
103: 63 53 0 0 57 62

It's pretty safe to assume that the Las Vegas HD locals are on 99 transponder 2 and/or 6.

Yeah. I wonder what is on 103 and why my 103 is worse than yours.

So far no random reboot -- ~36 hours since the reformat. I think I'll schedule some automatic recordings and if that starts working maybe I'll finally declare the HR20 usable...

It would be nice, as NFLST pretty much ties me to D*. Plus I just can't wait until they launch the Food channel in HD. (Just kidding, but having Starz, etc, would sure be nice.)

Yeah. I wonder what is on 103 and why my 103 is worse than yours.

Assuming each city is getting two transponders for HD locals, I'm guessing I'm getting Los Angeles and Fresno on 103. I'm ruling out Phoenix since if that was reaching into Las Vegas area that signal on 103 transponder 1 ought to be stronger where you're at, but it's much stronger over here in Pahrump.


So far no random reboot -- ~36 hours since the reformat. I think I'll schedule some automatic recordings and if that starts working maybe I'll finally declare the HR20 usable...

It would be nice, as NFLST pretty much ties me to D*. Plus I just can't wait until they launch the Food channel in HD. (Just kidding, but having Starz, etc, would sure be nice.)

It would sure be nice to have the rest of the movie channels in HD. After that I'm looking foward to Sci-Fi, FX, USA, and the National Geographic Channel in HD.

Assuming each city is getting two transponders for HD locals, I'm guessing I'm getting Los Angeles and Fresno on 103. I'm ruling out Phoenix since if that was reaching into Las Vegas area that signal on 103 transponder 1 ought to be stronger where you're at, but it's much stronger over here in Pahrump.



It would sure be nice to have the rest of the movie channels in HD. After that I'm looking foward to Sci-Fi, FX, USA, and the National Geographic Channel in HD.

You do mean HD-Lite right George?

You do mean HD-Lite right George?

No, DirecTV is going to have something like 40 * 48Mbps Ka transponders on conus beam once their new satellites are up. They would have the bandwidth to put every HD channel up in Blu-ray quality if they wanted to.

No, DirecTV is going to have something like 40 * 48Mbps Ka transponders on conus beam once their new satellites are up. They would have the bandwidth to put every HD channel up in Blu-ray quality if they wanted to.

It would really be great if D* is turning into a good company again. Until maybe a year or two ago, every interaction I ever had with them (except for one) was incredibly positive. Hopefully after they get sold and get these birds up, the rediscover what made them so much more pleasant to deal with than cable.

Also, it would _really_ be nice if we got RSNs in HD. Unless I am missing something, we don't get any of the RSNs in HD except for the ones that sometimes go national in HD. (Aren't the RSNs being spot-beamed in HD?)

They would have the bandwidth to put every HD channel up in Blu-ray quality if they wanted to.

Gee, I would hope it would be better than that. ;)

Here are the HR20 signal strength readings out in Pahrump:

99: 0 100 0 0 0 100
103: 63 53 0 0 57 62



Assuming each city is getting two transponders for HD locals, I'm guessing I'm getting Los Angeles and Fresno on 103. I'm ruling out Phoenix since if that was reaching into Las Vegas area that signal on 103 transponder 1 ought to be stronger where you're at, but it's much stronger over here in Pahrump.

H20 Signal from LA 90210 for reference - taken in last 12 hours

103: 82-69-0-0-79-14

Last I heard, virtually every city was on one transponder. LA has 50% more HD-LIL than other cities so it might be on 2. I have to speculate that San Diego is on 103 Transponder 2 - and LA is on 103 Transponder 1 and 5. If I were betting I would say Fresno or Phoenix on Transponder 6.

Yeah. I wonder what is on 103 and why my 103 is worse than yours.


Compare your 101 and 119 readings - the skew might not have been tweaked properly in the beginning and Ka is a much small beam and sweet spot. If 119 is also lower - than that would most likely be cause.

Also the final tweak which is the most critical for aligning the Ka transponders correctly is the one that is the hardest for an installer to get right. Yours could also be botched up there.

H20 Signal from LA 90210 for reference - taken in last 12 hours

103: 82-69-0-0-79-14

Last I heard, virtually every city was on one transponder. LA has 50% more HD-LIL than other cities so it might be on 2. I have to speculate that San Diego is on 103 Transponder 2 - and LA is on 103 Transponder 1 and 5. If I were betting I would say Fresno or Phoenix on Transponder 6.

Compare your 101 and 119 readings - the skew might not have been tweaked properly in the beginning and Ka is a much small beam and sweet spot. If 119 is also lower - than that would most likely be cause.

Also the final tweak which is the most critical for aligning the Ka transponders correctly is the one that is the hardest for an installer to get right. Yours could also be botched up there.

What's your 99 readings?

Look at the geography. Given the 100 signal strength out here on both transponders, it doesn't make sense any other way than Las Vegas has two spotbeams aimed at it since there's no other metro area within a 150 miles of Las Vegas.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6675/southwestmapyq2.png (http://imageshack.us)
(The green arrow is Pahrump, which is right on the CA border and a lot further from the AZ border than the main Las Vegas valley.)

What's your 99 readings?

Look at the geography. Given the 100 signal strength out here on both transponders, it doesn't make sense any other way than Las Vegas has two spotbeams aimed at it since there's no other metro area within a 150 miles of Las Vegas.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6675/southwestmapyq2.png (http://imageshack.us)
(The green arrow is Pahrump, which is right on the CA border and a lot further from the AZ border than the main Las Vegas valley.)

given the numbers and their past history with Spotbeams, it would seem it is Phoenix.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1480/spots1xs0.png (http://imageshack.us)

Updated Las Vegas HD channel guide to reflect DirecTV adding National Geographic HD on channel 77.


Las Vegas HD Channel Guide 3/2/07

Broadcast Networks OTA Cox DirecTV Dish
------------------ ----- ----- --------- ------
ABC (KTNV) 13-1 732 13
CBS (KLAS) 8-1 730 8
Fox (KVVU) 5-1 735 5
NBC (KVBC) 3-1 733 3
PBS (KLVX) 10-1 731
CW (KVCW) 33-1
MyTV (KVMY) 21-1

Cable Networks (*part time)
------------------
A&E HD 9419
Discovery HD 700 76 9421
ESPN HD 704 73 9424
ESPN2 HD 705 72 9425
Food Network HD 9462
HDNet 79 9422
HDNet Movies 78 9423
HGTV HD 9461
INHD 706
MHD 725
National Geographic HD 77 9429
NBA TV HD 707* 95* 9466*
NFL Network HD 707* 95* 9464
TNT HD 709 75 9420
Universal HD 708 74 9427

Premium Networks (*East Coast Feed)
------------------
HBO HD 710 70* 9456*
Cinemax HD 711
Showtime HD 720 71* 9460*
Starz HD 721 9435*

Voom Networks
------------------
Animania HD 9474
Equator HD 9471
Family Room HD 9486
Film Fest HD 9480
Gallery HD 9472
GamePlay HD 9485
HDNews 9482
Kung Fu HD 9479
Monsters HD 9481
Rave HD 9470
Rush HD 9476
Treasure HD 9477
Ultra HD 9478
World Cinema HD 9475
WorldSport HD 9473

given the numbers and their past history with Spotbeams, it would seem it is Phoenix.
That looks like the map for the MPEG2 SD LIL spotbeams. Do you know of a map for the spots on Spaceway 1/2?

That looks like the map for the MPEG2 SD LIL spotbeams. Do you know of a map for the spots on Spaceway 1/2?

I don't think anybody has made them up.

Anyhow, if anybody from Phoenix with an HR20 can post their signal strengths on 99 and 103 we should be able to settle the which spot beam comes from where debate.

That looks like the map for the MPEG2 SD LIL spotbeams. Do you know of a map for the spots on Spaceway 1/2?

re-read what i posted and even the quote in your post - I never said they weren't and indicated that they were the old MPEG2 SD LIL Spotbeams - unless you think MPEG4 HD-LIL is past history.

Here are the HR20 signal strength readings out in Pahrump:

99: 0 100 0 0 0 100
103: 63 53 0 0 57 62


Assuming each city is getting two transponders for HD locals, I'm guessing I'm getting Los Angeles and Fresno on 103. I'm ruling out Phoenix since if that was reaching into Las Vegas area that signal on 103 transponder 1 ought to be stronger where you're at, but it's much stronger over here in Pahrump.

H20 Signal from LA- Beverly Hills

103: 82-69-00-00-79-14

HR20 Signal from Orange County - maybe 30 miles south?
103: 86-69-00-00-79-70

Transponder 6 might be San Diego which shows the steep cut off just in that short distance.

H20 Signal from LA- Beverly Hills

103: 82-69-00-00-79-14

HR20 Signal from Orange County - maybe 30 miles south?
103: 86-69-00-00-79-70

Transponder 6 might be San Diego which shows the steep cut off just in that short distance.

I seems the reputed ability to change the power of the beams to account for weather conditions is true as well. I'm in the 30's (same 4 transponders as you get, zero on the rest) with the LA transponders (TP1 and TP5) sometimes hitting the 50s.

103 TP17 seems to have been activated by the lastest software release, but there is 0 signal on it.

I seems the reputed ability to change the power of the beams to account for weather conditions is true as well. I'm in the 30's (same 4 transponders as you get, zero on the rest) with the LA transponders (TP1 and TP5) sometimes hitting the 50s.

103 TP17 seems to have been activated by the lastest software release, but there is 0 signal on it.

Same in LA - I did not note that as it has a zero.

Anyone else unable to order the HD PPV of the UFC for tonight? I keep getting the message that it's not available to purchase at this time. I want to order now and set it to record since I won't be home later.

vegggas
edit - this is on Cox cable HD Channel 701
v

Directv guys. I have the new hddvr and 5lnb dish on the way. I told them I didnt want an installer as I have always done so myself. Is there anything way different about this dish? Is it pointing somwhere other than where my current one is?

Thanks

Directv guys. I have the new hddvr and 5lnb dish on the way. I told them I didnt want an installer as I have always done so myself. Is there anything way different about this dish? Is it pointing somwhere other than where my current one is?

Thanks

There are a couple of differences. Compared to the 3LNB dish, it points at 101 rather than 110. The mounting mast needs to be a wider diamter (something like 2" vs. 1" 5/8), and the fine tuning steps are a bit more involved since you need to be more precise in your aiming. Oh yeah, it's a bit larger and heavier and can become something of a sail in high winds so be careful taking it up a ladder.

It's not so difficult that it's impossible to self-install, but a competent installer with experience installing the new dishes should be able to get it done a lot faster.

Can anybody suggest a location in the greater Las Vegas area (50 mile radius) that I can go to, and actually see the H-20DVR in action? None of the local merchants seem to have it in stock. And if they do, it's not connected to any TV.

Directv guys. I have the new hddvr and 5lnb dish on the way. I told them I didnt want an installer as I have always done so myself. Is there anything way different about this dish? Is it pointing somwhere other than where my current one is?

Thanks

Yes, its a lot different and more difficult to setup - and you need a good meter to do so.

You can check out the install videos on the Solid Signal (http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp) site.

You really cannot use the meter on the TV for adjusting this one - you need a good DIGITAL meter. If you have that and can understand the videos, then go for it.

If not, let someone else do it.

And just a warning, if you screw it up along the way, lots of luck getting it back to the way it comes stock to start over again.

Can anybody suggest a location in the greater Las Vegas area (50 mile radius) that I can go to, and actually see the H-20DVR in action? None of the local merchants seem to have it in stock. And if they do, it's not connected to any TV.

GeorgeLV's house.

Can anybody suggest a location in the greater Las Vegas area (50 mile radius) that I can go to, and actually see the H-20DVR in action? None of the local merchants seem to have it in stock. And if they do, it's not connected to any TV.

if you're already a d* customer, i'm pretty sure they have a 30 day MBG. i know they have a 30 day MBG for new customers (or at least that's what they told me in august when i almost signed up my friend).

fwiw, my much-maligned hr20 has not rebooted randomly a single time since i reformatted it earlier this week; it also hasn't missed a recording.

hopefully it continues to hold up, but i don't want to get too optimistic. but if it maintains its reliability, i take back everything i said about not recommending it. as a dvr, it's interface is much nicer than the cox one.

hopefully it continues to hold up, but i don't want to get too optimistic. but if it maintains its reliability, i take back everything i said about not recommending it. as a dvr, it's interface is much nicer than the cox one.

I don't particularly care about re-booting problems. AFAIC it can reboot twenty times a day. If it works as it should and produces a good picture and audio quality I would be satisfied. But as yet NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, has given me a straight forward evaluation of the kind of HD picture quality it produces (especially on Local Network HD channels CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX.) , IN COMPARISON TO THAT PRODUCED BY THE COX 8300HD)

GeorgeLV's house.

I already contacted GeorgeLV via a PM. He is unavailable to receive visitors at this time.

I don't particularly care about re-booting problems. AFAIC it can reboot twenty times a day. If it works as it should and produces a good picture and audio quality I would be satisfied. But as yet NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, has given me a straighht forward evaluation of the kind of HD picture quality it produces (especially on Local Network HD channels CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX.) , IN COMPARISON TO THAT PRODUCED BY THE COX 8300HD)

well, it's been a while since i had the 8300HD and I only had it for a couple of months while i was moving here from seattle and that was on a GWIII. i have not hooked it up to my sxrd.

however, that being said, i can compare the HR20's local HD PQ to the SXRD's built-in ATSC tuner as well as the ATSC tuner in my HTPC. others may disagree, but i don't think you're going to do any better than the built-in ATSC tuner in the SXRD.

anyway, the directv spot beam for local HD channels is definitely worse than ATSC. but using directv's ATSC tuner, it was just as good as my TV's ATSC tuner and my HTPC.

the only way in which i'd imagine the 8300HD could be superior is if it gets a better signal from KVBC. I have never gotten a clean signal from them. It has actually been several months since I have had an issue of losing there signal, but I still think the PQ from them is horrible. If someohow cox gets a better feed from KVBC, it could be clearly superior. But the other three channels are all outstanding for me.

If you're not planning on using OTA, and you really care about PQ, don't go with D* unless it's your only option. it's pretty good, but not the best.

.

If you're not planning on using OTA, and you really care about PQ, don't go with D* unless it's your only option. it's pretty good, but not the best.

But my question was, is it better than, worse than, or equivalent to the 8300HD?
I may want to jetison Cox, because I want baseball coverage, and apparently only D* will have MLB- Extra Innings (despite congressional pussyfooting). Right now I have both D* for baseball and Cox for HD locals. And as you can imagine that costs me close to $200 monthly. But if the D* HD locals are comparable in quality to the Cox version, OUT GOES COX.

But my question was, is it better than, worse than, or equivalent to the 8300HD?
I may want to jetison Cox, because I want baseball coverage, and apparently only D* will have MLB- Extra Innings (despite congressional pussyfooting). Right now I have both D* for baseball and Cox for HD locals. And as you can imagine that costs me close to $200 monthly. But if the D* HD locals are comparable in quality to the Cox version, OUT GOES COX.

they are certainly comparable and there is no way i'd pay $100/month to cox just for the slight increased PQ over D*.

answer these questions:

a) if you go D*, are you going OTA or sat-only for HD? if you are going OTA, then HD should be at least as good if not better than the 8300HD, assuming you get decent reception

b) if you are going sat-only, have you ever compared OTA or QAM/cablecard HD to the 8300HD? if you think the 8300HD is worse than OTA or QAM/cablecard, D* would probably be just as good. however, if the you think the 8300HD is about as good as OTA or qam/cablecard, then D* will be a little bit worse. I think probably 95% of people won't notice the difference, but it is there. the stuff i've noticed is mostly increased digital artifacts. but now that i appears the 8mm bug has been fixed, i'd be happy with the HD locals.

another thing you might try is to call up D* and ask for an H20. they should give it to you for free, you just pay $5/month. it's not the dvr, but you'll be able to sample the HD PQ.

almost certainly if you save $100/month, you could either get a better tv or a bluray/hddvd player, which would more than make up for any loss in PQ. or put another way, there is no way i'd pay $100/month to have the cox local HD PQ when i could have the D* HD PQ for free...

Did the 8300HD get a software update recently or something? HDTV programs on HD channels now have a big bold HD icon while they didn't before. And new episodes of programs also have a NEW they didn't have.

However, somehow, parental controls were turned on by themselves and now there's a red lock "unlocked" icon next to the network icon in the interface.

And the really annoying thing is tuning stations to occasionally see:

"Copy Protection
The DVI/HDMI output is blocked
Push EXIT to Cancel."

Push exit and the screen returns to it's regular HD programming. Looks like some kind of HDCP bug but it's not blocking my HD picture, for what I can tell.

Did the 8300HD get a software update recently or something? HDTV programs on HD channels now have a big bold HD icon while they didn't before. And new episodes of programs also have a NEW they didn't have.

However, somehow, parental controls were turned on by themselves and now there's a red lock "unlocked" icon next to the network icon in the interface.

And the really annoying thing is tuning stations to occasionally see:

"Copy Protection
The DVI/HDMI output is blocked
Push EXIT to Cancel."

Push exit and the screen returns to it's regular HD programming. Looks like some kind of HDCP bug but it's not blocking my HD picture, for what I can tell.

Well, I'm not having those specific problems. But problems LIKE those are reasons I want to jetison Cox Cable. (Although I want to keep their internet service).

But my question was, is it better than, worse than, or equivalent to the 8300HD?
I may want to jetison Cox, because I want baseball coverage, and apparently only D* will have MLB- Extra Innings (despite congressional pussyfooting). Right now I have both D* for baseball and Cox for HD locals. And as you can imagine that costs me close to $200 monthly. But if the D* HD locals are comparable in quality to the Cox version, OUT GOES COX.

Well, to begin with you could get basic cable and use Cox for HD - it does not have to cost you $100 a month for HD Locals.

Second, D* does use reduced resolution (HD-LITE) for MPEG4 HD-LILs. I have run tests in various markets and so have others. KenH and Fred are now aware of the facts concerning this as well as it has been confirmed by one of the top HD Engineers in the Country. Whether you or TV has the resolution to see it is another debate, but D* clearly does use HDLITE for OTA.

Third, no idea if Cox uses rate shaping in Las Vegas or not. This would also have an impact on OTA signal via cable. It should be easy for someone to compare the bitrate of a CBS or NBC programming OTA and via Cox Cable to give you an answer on that. If Cox does not use rate shaping in Las Vegas, it should look better than D*.

Fourth, OTA will look better than D* and can look better than Cox if Cox Rate Shapes.

Well, I'm not having those specific problems. But problems LIKE those are reasons I want to jetison Cox Cable. (Although I want to keep their internet service).


The D* HR20 has more known problems then the SA8300 ever did.

Second, D* does use reduced resolution (HD-LITE) for MPEG4 HD-LILs. I have run tests in various markets and so have others. KenH and Fred are now aware of the facts concerning this as well as it has been confirmed by one of the top HD Engineers in the Country. Whether you or TV has the resolution to see it is another debate, but D* clearly does use HDLITE for OTA.

Adding to your comment, it's not just resolution changing that's an issue. It's also the transcoding from MPEG2 to MPEG4. I believe I'm correct in saying that it's not possible to do such a transcode losslessly while at the same time reducing bitrate. (I know you can do this with audio.)

The issue with HD-LITE is with 1080i, from what I understand -- taking a 1920x1080i to 1280x1080i. 720p stuff is still kept at 1280x720p. I don't know what they do with 1080i broadcasts for locals, but I can definitely state that I've seen worse PQ on their 720p versus OTA. Perfect example was during the Tigers-Yankees ALDS series. Anytime there was a camera pan in a darker area of Yankee Stadium you could really see a difference between OTA and D*. I don't know the correct terms from the types of things I see, but I'd describe as something similar to what I think a mild form of clayface would be, except not with flesh tones. In darker areas of the screen, there was more of a tendency to lose detail and have everything be a solid shade. This is mostly due to the transcoding from MPEG2->MPEG4 from what I understand and there isn't much that can be done to reduce it while still keeping the bitrate smaller than MPEG2, which is the point of MPEG4.

The D* HR20 has more known problems then the SA8300 ever did.

This is true. I've been a harsh critic of the HR20. However, I will say, ever since the last update and my last reformat, it has been rock solid.

But I have no doubt the chances are large it will crap out again!

The real problem with the MPEG4 is that you are starting with low MPEG2 bitrates to begin with as stations multicast. If D* would install MPEG4 encoders at the station from the uncompressed SDI interfaces, it would be so much better off - and would probably OUTPERFORM OTA. However that is not the case in 2007.

Think of it as making a Xerox of a Xerox of a Xerox of a Xerox of a Xerox (you get the point) and yes, the signal really is converted about that many times all told. Pretty soon things get nasty.

And any error is exagerated in the transcoding from MEPG2 to MPEG4. It's like over compensating for a curve in your car when it begins to slide on ice - or the 5th copy of a Xerox.

PPV events are usually not recordable in advance. You can only start the recording after the event begins. ALSO, you will note that you CANNOT watch two PPV games at once using PIP. The little PIP box will only show green screen and not the game. Why this is the way it is , I dont know, but ESPN sports packages on 601-606 have always been that way. BUT...I had NBA league pass last year and those channels operated normally...could set up record in advance...go figure. I didnt like it either ,but have learned to live with it.
1) Never had that issue with DTV. In fact, I set up a wishlist and every game on the ESPN Full Court college basketball package was recorded without lifting a finger.

2) What's was weird was sometimes I COULD set (in advance) a game to record using the guide and other times I couldn't. But even when I couldn't, I could still set it manually by selecting channel and time...until halfway through the season, when Cox suddenly removed the PPV channels from the manual-record list of available stations.

Having since gone back to DTV (Sorry Foghorn, Dish just doesn't have the right channels selection for me), I can do everything I want now and haven't had but one minor issue...although I'll admit that SD channels have less clarity than Cox did.

In regards to the Cox complaints on this forum the past few days, I just want to let you know we've reviewed this thread and are looking into your issues.
Interested in what you find. FYI...I dumped Cox and went back to DTV. Lots of technical issues, but more importantly too many tech reps who either couldn't or wouldn't answer my questions and the stupid policy that supervisors will not pick up for an issue but rather will call back within 24 hours. You have to realize that we often don't have that long ...trying to set a recorder before heading for the airport and finding out it won't work? Sorry, you guys have got to do better than that or you're going to lose a whole lot more customers than me...

Yes, I guess you could spend 23 hours over 6 weeks on the phone with D* trying to get a proper install - and after 4 dates (only 2 of which anyone ever showed up) and 2 personal days off work I am down to the last remaining problem. I've never heard of a cable install going this bad. Try hanging on the phone for 108 minutes in queue on Saturday. Also, of the 9 promised callbacks, the grand total has been 1. You might not like a 24 hour callback, but its better than what I've seen from D*.


I would also point out that Cox Cable won top honors in the Western USA Region in the JD Powers Customer Satisfaction Study for 2006 - beating Directv and Dish - in fact Dish beat Directv in the Western Region.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2006135

And the really annoying thing is tuning stations to occasionally see:

"Copy Protection
The DVI/HDMI output is blocked
Push EXIT to Cancel."

Push exit and the screen returns to it's regular HD programming. Looks like some kind of HDCP bug but it's not blocking my HD picture, for what I can tell.
I got this message once over the weekend.

I also have a odd problem with my 8300HD DVR. every so often, box will move up one channel, activate the guide and turn off. I turn the box back on and it might or might not do it again in the next few minutes. Twice last week, I turned on the box after coming home and it was tuned to channel 605 (NCAA PPV). No one else in the house, just started occurring last week. Did a reboot yesterday, has not occurred again.....yet.

Yes, I guess you could spend 23 hours over 6 weeks on the phone with D* trying to get a proper install - and after 4 dates (only 2 of which anyone ever showed up) and 2 personal days off work I am down to the last remaining problem. I've never heard of a cable install going this bad. Try hanging on the phone for 108 minutes in queue on Saturday. Also, of the 9 promised callbacks, the grand total has been 1. You might not like a 24 hour callback, but its better than what I've seen from D*.

With any appliance install, it's a good idea to tip the installer (if they're remotely competent) and get their cell number. It's more than worth $20 to get service in 20 minutes.

With any appliance install, it's a good idea to tip the installer (if they're remotely competent) and get their cell number. It's more than worth $20 to get service in 20 minutes.

Well, considering the first 2 scheduled appointments never showed up - so it was impossible to tip them.

The 3rd one spoke no english so I could not get him to understand what went where - and destroyed the HR10-250 in the process.

The 4th I gave $100 to, so your point? In my book, they have to show up to get a tip and they must be able to perform work for the tip.

This still doesn't excuse close to 24 hours total on the phone to 32 different CSRs at D* - none of which ever followed through completely.

I don't think anybody has made them up.

Anyhow, if anybody from Phoenix with an HR20 can post their signal strengths on 99 and 103 we should be able to settle the which spot beam comes from where debate.

In Tucson

99 - 0 46 0 0 0 42
103 - 0 95 0 0 0 95

Ok, it's pretty clear now that for whatever reasons Las Vegas has two spot beams. Maybe DirecTV is going to add FSN West/Prime Ticket for us or maybe their agreements with Sinclair say they have to their CW and MNTV stations at some point.

[QUOTE=Roscoe]

2) What's was weird was sometimes I COULD set (in advance) a game to record using the guide and other times I couldn't. But even when I couldn't, I could still set it manually by selecting channel and time...until halfway through the season, when Cox suddenly removed the PPV channels from the manual-record list of available stations.

QUOTE]


Your right.. it does seem to be sporadic... I was able to input an advanced recording for a Fullcourt game for this weekend and it got recorded as any other normal program. I also tried the manual option and it worked also. But , you still cant watch two fullcourt basketball games at once using PIP for the second one.

Yes, I guess you could spend 23 hours over 6 weeks on the phone with D* trying to get a proper install - and after 4 dates (only 2 of which anyone ever showed up) and 2 personal days off work I am down to the last remaining problem. I've never heard of a cable install going this bad. Try hanging on the phone for 108 minutes in queue on Saturday. Also, of the 9 promised callbacks, the grand total has been 1. You might not like a 24 hour callback, but its better than what I've seen from D*.


I would also point out that Cox Cable won top honors in the Western USA Region in the JD Powers Customer Satisfaction Study for 2006 - beating Directv and Dish - in fact Dish beat Directv in the Western Region.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2006135

I can sympathize with you after having all those problems. Apparently I've been very lucky in my dealings with D*. Each install was arranged with one phone call, the installers (Ironwood) showed up on time or called if they were running late, the installations have been done neatly, with even a little "beyond the norm" work in some cases, and my equipment has always run really well. The only problems I've had were a couple of missed recordings and BSDs with my 2 HR20s, but those happened in much earlier s/w versions and have been solid since.
Reading the avs forums, it is apparent that the HR20 started out as "not ready for primetime" but now the general consenus appears to be that, while not perfect, it is becoming more reliable.
I really liked my HR10 but after getting used to the GUI and features of the HR20, I don't believe I would go back if I had the choice.
btw, when we first moved to Henderson eight years ago, (we now live in Pahrump) we did have Cox cable for a while. Granted it was in the old days before HDTV, but the picture quality really sucked. We finally dumped the tv service but kept the internet service, which, I have to admit, I miss out here where Wild Blue is our only real option for the web.

We finally dumped the tv service but kept the internet service, which, I have to admit, I miss out here where Wild Blue is our only real option for the web.

You do know about the AT&T WiMAX, right? Pahrump was the 1st WiMAX market in the nation. I got it and while the speeds what match the fastest stuff you can get in Vegas it's pretty decent (About 1.8Mbit according to those online speed tests, a download this morning came in at 141kb/s.)

Yes, I guess you could spend 23 hours over 6 weeks on the phone with D* trying to get a proper install - and after 4 dates (only 2 of which anyone ever showed up) and 2 personal days off work I am down to the last remaining problem. I've never heard of a cable install going this bad. Try hanging on the phone for 108 minutes in queue on Saturday. Also, of the 9 promised callbacks, the grand total has been 1. You might not like a 24 hour callback, but its better than what I've seen from D*.


I would also point out that Cox Cable won top honors in the Western USA Region in the JD Powers Customer Satisfaction Study for 2006 - beating Directv and Dish - in fact Dish beat Directv in the Western Region.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2006135

Thats amazing because Dish really sucks when it comes to their CSR's. Direct TV must really be that bad to lose to Dish in this reguard.

http://www.jdpower.com/util/ratings/results.aspx?study_id=525&vertical=Telecom&v1=West

Dish and D* appear to be nearly tied in the west, with Dish having superior performance and reliability ratings and D* having superior offerings and promotions ratings.

What do you mean they are ALL bad. Cox, Dish, Directv. There are horror stories on them all. That's why it's called CSR roulette. It wouldn't even surprise me if they were all in the same call center.

In a first for satellite receivers I've used, there actually a use for the RJ-45 jack on the HR20.

If you hook it up to your network you can stream music from Windows Media Player 11. (After clicking through a couple of screens that note the feature is beta.)

Not HD, but a friendly reminder that the all of the local Mountain West conference series are on the The Mountain channel 334 Tuesday through Friday (and CSTV 333 on Friday). Finals are on Saturday on the Versus channle67.

edit - This is on cox
vegggas

In a first for satellite receivers I've used, there actually a use for the RJ-45 jack on the HR20.

If you hook it up to your network you can stream music from Windows Media Player 11. (After clicking through a couple of screens that note the feature is beta.)

Now thats cool! I use a networked media player to play my music which is stored on a "slug" ( a linksys network external HD interface). I use the Twonky Media Server software which actually runs in the hacked storage interface wich runs linux. It is full UPNP certified and any UPNP device will play from that slug!

No need to run a PC with windows with this setup. Does the HR20 play from just a Windows PC, or is it UPNP compatible?

Now that is one feature the HR20 has one up on the Vip622 DVR.

"Officially" media streaming to the the HR20 is supposed to be Intel "Viiv" technology. Unofficially it's just UPnP, and any UPnP media server should work just fine. (I'm guessing the situation is pretty much the same as when Intel called 802.11b in laptops "Centrino" technology.) Judging by the thread on DBSTalk, more than a few are successfully using it with Twonky.

since USDTV is no longer up and running will local HD channels look better since they won't be leeching off them?

since USDTV is no longer up and running will local HD channels look better since they won't be leeching off them?

Just 21 and 33.

Hey Foghorn, why would Dish say "you are not qualified for Dish Advantage Program" when applying online? Credit is perfect with a score over 800.

I have been reading/hearing advertised that D* has exclusive rights to the early NCAA games from all the regions (ppv basis). I suppose this means that Cox's practice of showing the early games on special digital channels like they have the last few years is no longer going to happen? Can anyone confirm this? I dont want to shell out the money for the D* ppv if I dont have to. Watching games streamed online for free from CBS is not an option for me.

So far the only exclusives that D* has that I'm aware of are NFL Football and MLB-Extra Innings. Since the only sport I care about is baseball, I couldn't care less what they do about NCAA basketball.

Well reporting back as promised on the antenna situation...

I am up at the top of Sun City Anthem and thought I would have a pretty good shot at the towers..., but I am sad to say that the powered antenna I put in the attic can only pick up 8 and 13.

wah!

KLAS Channel 8HD will air the Stardust Implosion live as it happens tonight between 1 and 5 AM. It is suggested that they will use their HD cameras to capture the event.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=6188154
Aaron Drawhorn, Reporter
Las Vegas' Legendary Stardust Soon Bites The Dust

March 12, 2007 05:40 PM PDT


The legendary Stardust hotel tower on the Las Vegas Strip will be brought down by implosion early Tuesday morning. All that's left right now is a shell of the building. Crews have worked for months to prepare the building for the implosion.

The Stardust closed in November of 2006 after 48 years on the Las Vegas Strip. It will be replaced by a multi-billion-dollar resort called Echelon Place.

The implosion will take place sometime after 1 a.m. and before 5 a.m. depending on wind and other conditions. KLAS-TV Channel 8 will have live coverage of that event.

-------- Scroll down for road closures --------

So many people have come by the Stardust to say goodbye -- from longtime employees to patrons to those who are just excited to see a huge building being blown up.

At 32 stories, it is the tallest structure to ever be imploded on the Las Vegas Strip. It will take 428 pounds of explosives to bring down the two towers in just ten seconds or less.

It will be a final farewell to yet another part of old Vegas, an end of an era.

It was one of Las Vegas' most iconic casinos. The bright lights of the Stardust glowed on the Strip for nearly 50 years. But now the clock is ticking.

Final preps are underway to say goodbye to one of the last "grand dames" of the Strip.

The Las Vegas landmark will be blown to bits, coming down in a pre-dawn cloud of dust.

Longtime patron Bill Rabatin hates to see the Stardust go. He remembers those days and nights in the poker room. "It was great. Good food, good service. We have been [there] many, many times, and we're going to miss the place."

The Stardust is rich with history.

It opened in 1958 at the beginning of the space age complete with rockets catering to middle class America.
More than 19 million people saw the Lido de Paris extravaganza over five decades.
Boxing legend Muhammad Ali trained there.
And in the early '60s, the Stardust Invitational drew national attention in the old rotunda of the Las Vegas Convention Center.
Everyone who has stepped foot in the Stardust has their own memories.

"I think it's sad to see it coming down. I really do. It's been here a long time," said Sue Rabatin, a longtime patron.

But in Las Vegas, it's out with the old and in with the new.

The Stardust will go out with a big bang, a gigantic goodbye with memories to fill a universe.

Gary York, a tourist from Southern California, "It's going to be Vegas-style. It's going to be lights, and fireworks and explosions. It's going to be nice."

The Stardust is now just a shell waiting to be loaded with dynamite. All of the attention will be on the main 32-story tower. It's only been a fixture on the skyline here since 1991, but still it's part of this casino's rich history.

Eyewitness News was told this will be the largest Las Vegas implosion since the Sands tumbled down in 1996. Again, the Stardust implosion will happen between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m.

Metro will shut down streets around the Stardust before the demolition.

Traffic will not be allowed on Las Vegas Boulevard from Riviera Drive to Cathedral Drive.
Industrial Road will be closed from Stardust Road to Circus Circus.
Stardust Road will be closed, as will be the access road between the Westward Ho property and the McDonald's.
Metro will also reduce lanes of traffic on the Desert Inn super arterial.

vegggas

Indeed, I'm curious if KLAS is going to be showing the UNLV game friday morning, I'm taking the day off work to have friends over (who are also taking the day off work) to watch it. I dont have digital cable so I need to have it on ch 8. Though there is a small chance that those digital QAM feeds could be unencrypted, I'd just have to spend my entire morning searching for them.

I have confirmation that Cox will be showing the NCAA games on channels 8/730 , 126,127, &129

Indeed, I'm curious if KLAS is going to be showing the UNLV game friday morning, I'm taking the day off work to have friends over (who are also taking the day off work) to watch it. I dont have digital cable so I need to have it on ch 8. Though there is a small chance that those digital QAM feeds could be unencrypted, I'd just have to spend my entire morning searching for them.

since klas is covering it, it should be available free and clear via qam.

Well reporting back as promised on the antenna situation...

I am up at the top of Sun City Anthem and thought I would have a pretty good shot at the towers..., but I am sad to say that the powered antenna I put in the attic can only pick up 8 and 13.

wah!


I was also surprised that to receive any signals at all I had to point the antenna to the SW... this is rather counter-intuitive as the transmission towers are in the NE as I understand it (I am in Sun City Anthem).

Yes I do know the antenna arms act as a Trap not as an arrow...... this particular antenna (Stealth) has 4 arms on each side of the center housing which holds the amplifier section. The arms are currently aimed such that they are "open" to the SW... which just seems odd... when I aimed them NE I got nothing at all....

KLAS Channel 8HD will air the Stardust Implosion live as it happens tonight between 1 and 5 AM. It is suggested that they will use their HD cameras to capture the event.
vegggas

It was 4x3 SD of course. Later replays were cropped upconverted 16x9 images during their HD news broadcasts.

vegggas

I have confirmation that Cox will be showing the NCAA games on channels 8/730 , 126,127, &129
Actually they are on 126, 127, 128, & 129 for all four different locations. The HD coverage will be on 730. Channel 128 is the current CBS SD feed from the studio and the other three channels will be added by Cox for the event. For the past several years, KLAS has piped the CBS feeds directly to Cox instead of trying to cram all of the subchannels onto the OTA mixed signal. This is a good thing and one of the few stations that would go out of their way to provide a seperate full feed and an HD feed to give the full feeds to a provider for distribution.
Thank you again KLAS.
(although we are still waiting for 5.1 sound ;) )
vegggas

I had been trying to post some of this info earlier, but it seems every time I try to log on, the site has been down for some reason.
v

Well, I just finished assembling a Wal-mart DVD rack that ended up looking surprisingly nice, so I figure I'd show off my current setup.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3072/georgelvssetupvx9.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=georgelvssetupvx9.jpg)

I haven't even done an audio system yet and my cables are already a nightmare.

I saw on KLAS news tonight that they're supposed to show the UNLV game at 925 and the UNR game later at 1130 or whatever.

I saw on KLAS news tonight that they're supposed to show the UNLV game at 925 and the UNR game later at 1130 or whatever.
Here's the story:
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=6219389
KLAS-TV, Channel 8 is the only place you can see the UNLV and UNR games on Friday.

There will be an Eyewitness News special starting at 8 a.m. and leading into the games. The UNLV game is set to start at 9:25 a.m. and UNR game will start around 11:50 a.m.

In addition, KLAS-TV is providing every single NCAA game to Las Vegas viewers. The games not carried on Channel 8 will air on three Cox digital channels.
Note that there are three additional channels for a total of four channels of the NCAA feeds. Channel 128 is the same as OTA SD, and 730 is the same as OTA HD.
Here are the schedules:
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=4506861

I can't copy and paste the schedule without ruining the format, so use the link.

Cox Digital customers with HD STB's who do not subscribe to HBO will be able to see the HBOHD Freeview this weekend. And of course, all the SD channels and possibly the HBO EOD library (if they want to catch up on all the back episodes of Sopranos).
I don't know the specific dates and times, but it's supposed to start before the weekend and last through the week.

vegggas

Did they say how many games are going to be in HD?

Did they say how many games are going to be in HD?
All the ones in the link on the HD channel.

vegggas

Did they say how many games are going to be in HD?

All of them.

If you don't have DirecTV Mega March Madness you'll only get the ones carried on the primary broadcast of KLAS.

Note that the early round UNLV and Nevada games may not be entirely in HD, or in HD at all due to requirements of the constant coverage feed (i.e. because they are of local interest they can not be dumped in the case of a blowout, etc.). Hopefully, KLAS will stick to the HD feed and only switch to the constant coverage feed if needed.

Note that the early round UNLV and Nevada games may not be entirely in HD, or in HD at all due to requirements of the constant coverage feed (i.e. because they are of local interest they can not be dumped in the case of a blowout, etc.). Hopefully, KLAS will stick to the HD feed and only switch to the constant coverage feed if needed.

What does this have to do with whether a particular game can be shown in HD or not? All the tournament games are being broadcast in HD. I don't understand how a "constant coverage" game makes any difference.

Question for Foghorn, or any Dish 622 user: Im' getting guide info for ch. 39 KBLR on ch. 33-1 KYCW. Anyone know if Dish is working on this, or is it a matter for KYCW or Tribune Media? This really sucks. I dropped D* because after six months, they still can't get their crappy DVR to work. Now Dish's DVR has it's own issues. Can anyone build a decent HD DVR besides TIVO?

What does this have to do with whether a particular game can be shown in HD or not? All the tournament games are being broadcast in HD. I don't understand how a "constant coverage" game makes any difference.


You're right . All the venues have HD broadcast equipment, but D* is the only service that has the bandwidth to show all the regions on HD channels , but you pay for that whereas the Cox feeds are completely free IF you have digital box

What does this have to do with whether a particular game can be shown in HD or not? All the tournament games are being broadcast in HD. I don't understand how a "constant coverage" game makes any difference.

I'm sure it has everything to do with control room and satellite transponder limitations.

CBS is producing up to four HD flex feeds. On the flex feeds coverage can shift around the different games to, for instance, drop coverage from a blowout to a competitive game, or take you to the last second shot of another game.

Constant coverage is a different feed that always follows the progress of the local teams in the early rounds. CBS does not have the capacity to produce and/or transmit these feeds in HD.

Question for Foghorn, or any Dish 622 user: Im' getting guide info for ch. 39 KBLR on ch. 33-1 KYCW. Anyone know if Dish is working on this, or is it a matter for KYCW or Tribune Media? This really sucks. I dropped D* because after six months, they still can't get their crappy DVR to work. Now Dish's DVR has it's own issues. Can anyone build a decent HD DVR besides TIVO?

It's KVCW, not KYCW. And, you'd want to contact Sinclair as they own the station, not Tribune Media.

As for HD DVRs, if you want a Tivo, you can always get a series 3, subscribe to Cox, and play cable card roulette.

Seems someone or some thing has messed up coverage of the tournament on the temporary channels. I was watching the games on 730 in HD, but everytime I tuned to 126-129, the same game was on every channel. The GW-Vandy game, which was the only game going on during the 2-3PM hours, was nowhere to be found. Either they're having technical problems, or somebody at Cox is asleep.

Seems someone or some thing has messed up coverage of the tournament on the temporary channels. I was watching the games on 730 in HD, but everytime I tuned to 126-129, the same game was on every channel. The GW-Vandy game, which was the only game going on during the 2-3PM hours, was nowhere to be found. Either they're having technical problems, or somebody at Cox is asleep.

It's fine for the evening games. I wonder what the problem was before?

The Cox guy woke up. :eek:

Question for Foghorn, or any Dish 622 user: Im' getting guide info for ch. 39 KBLR on ch. 33-1 KYCW. Anyone know if Dish is working on this, or is it a matter for KYCW or Tribune Media? This really sucks. I dropped D* because after six months, they still can't get their crappy DVR to work. Now Dish's DVR has it's own issues. Can anyone build a decent HD DVR besides TIVO?

The problem is with the guide data, not the HD DVR which I think is better than the Tivo.

They fixed the local guida data a month ago and all the "digital service" titles went away. Some STBs had a problem with this change so they reverted back to the old settings. I have to set manual timers for 10.1 and 33.1 for now.

Somtimes I get "futbol" when OS Star Trek is recorded :D

It's fine for the evening games. I wonder what the problem was before?

Now Chs. 126-129 are all showing the Duke-VCU game. The problem is that Cox is not using a dedicated feed to each game. Since the other games are not currently competitive, they (CBS) switch to a close game. Kind of renders those "extra" channels useless. Not happy that I can't watch my Bruins pound on Weber St.

Hey, at least Duke lost. Hopefully you'll be able to watch your Bruins in the next round.

Hey, at least Duke lost. Hopefully you'll be able to watch your Bruins in the next round.
A-men!! Duke sucks.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1748127 (NSFW: Language)

GO REBELS!

Now Chs. 126-129 are all showing the Duke-VCU game. The problem is that Cox is not using a dedicated feed to each game. Since the other games are not currently competitive, they (CBS) switch to a close game. Kind of renders those "extra" channels useless. Not happy that I can't watch my Bruins pound on Weber St.

I'm guessing DirecTV has the exclusive of the out-of-market constant coverage feeds. After all, there has to be some reason why they charge seventy bucks for what many stations/cable systems give away for no additional cost.

Thanks, for the info Foghorn. I do like the 622 so far, except it seems to only have one ATSC tuner. So makes it impossible to watch or record two local HD feeds at the same time. Which we do a lot of. That is the only thing I find the D* DVR and Tivo superior for.

Now Chs. 126-129 are all showing the Duke-VCU game. The problem is that Cox is not using a dedicated feed to each game. Since the other games are not currently competitive, they (CBS) switch to a close game. Kind of renders those "extra" channels useless. Not happy that I can't watch my Bruins pound on Weber St.


another option is online viewing..all games are shown online for free

Thanks, for the info Foghorn. I do like the 622 so far, except it seems to only have one ATSC tuner. So makes it impossible to watch or record two local HD feeds at the same time. Which we do a lot of. That is the only thing I find the D* DVR and Tivo superior for.

If and when they offer HD locals through Sat, you will be able to record three HD feeds!
Lets hope!

If and when they offer HD locals through Sat, you will be able to record three HD feeds!
Lets hope!

Based on FCC filings, don't expect HD locals from Dish Network until 2009 when the Ciel 2 spotbeam satellite is launched to 129.

Bah, the game isnt in HD.

I wonder why it wasnt in HD and with the #1 broadcast team calling the game, jim nantz and billy packer. I would think they would rate for an HD game. I know there was HD equipment there because the Big Ten Tourney was there in HD just last week with the same broadcast team. Someone at KLAS must have screwed up???

I wonder why it wasnt in HD and with the #1 broadcast team calling the game, jim nantz and billy packer. I would think they would rate for an HD game. I know there was HD equipment there because the Big Ten Tourney was there in HD just last week with the same broadcast team. Someone at KLAS must have screwed up???

I tried to explain this a couple of times in this thread already. KLAS must air the "constant coverage" feeds of UNLV and Nevada. The "constant coverage" feeds are not available in HD; the four HD feeds available are "flex coverage". Thus, ironically, the HD feed is available everywhere except Las Vegas.

Possibly. Or wasnt there some storm in the NE, around NYC? Its possible that weather is prohibiting them from talking to their HD satellites (not enough power to maintain a signal link).

Also I tried to find the QAM channels the additional broadcasts were on, but couldnt find em.

Possibly. Or wasnt there some storm in the NE, around NYC? Its possible that weather is prohibiting them from talking to their HD satellites (not enough power to maintain a signal link).

I assure you that my explanation is correct and easily verifiable.

The "possibly" was for the post above yours George (simulpost).

Thus, ironically, the HD feed is available everywhere except Las Vegas.

What was the case in the viewing area around Georgia Tech?
Did THEY get the HD feed, or were they "penalized" the same way that Las Vegas was.

And whats gonna be the case in Round 2?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/marchhd031507.htm
This might give you an answer

Well, for those of you who are interested in DirecTV's HR-20, I am once again on the negative bandwagon. I have had an HR-20 since they first became available in LV (Sept or Oct) and it's been nothing but trouble since. A couple of weeks ago, after the new software, I did a full reset and reformat of the HD. For a while, it worked perfectly. Now it doesn't.

Maybe a week ago, while watching FOX, I rewound to catch something that I had missed. The unit completely crapped out, but when I changed channels it came back to life. Okay, strike one, but I can live with that.

Things worked fine for a while. Then this morning I turn on the end of the xavier-ohio state game on my HTPC and decide to compare the OTA PQ to the HR-20. Well, wouldn't you know it, the HR-20 is basically unresponsive. I change to channel 8, it tells me that basketball is on, but all I get is a gray screen. I can't change any channels. So I do a red button reset and tune to channel 8. So far, so good. I conclusively determine for my ownself that the dreaded 8mm effect is gone. Although OTA is a bit better, the HR-20 does an impressive job with it's MPEG-4 transcode of the OTA signal.

Then Ohio State ties the game with a 3-pointer. I decide to rewind a bit to rewatch this pivotal moment in the game.

And wouldn't you guess it? The unit totally craps out on me.

This thing I must say is a total piece of steaming you know what. Either it's a huge Xavier fan and took it's pain out on me, or it's the biggest joke ever.

I'm a complete numbskull, and I really don't want to subscribe to cable, so I'm going to try one of my other HR-20 boxes which has been sitting unplugged. Hopefully that one will work better. If not, it must be something related to my setup. Maybe the HR-20 doesn't work with obscure TV's like Sony SXRD's and obscure receiver brands like Sony.

By the way, my gut tells me that one of two things is going on: either the HR-20 has serious problems with HDCP or it has serious problems with hardware.

Actually, now that I mention that, I'm going to try this test first: I'm going to use component video cables. I like the tidiness of HDMI much better, but if I can make this *&**DF*D*D&## thing work with component I'll be happy while I wait for the D* tuner for Vista.

Well, for those of you who are interested in DirecTV's HR-20, I am once again on the negative bandwagon. I have had an HR-20 since they first became available in LV (Sept or Oct) and it's been nothing but trouble since. A couple of weeks ago, after the new software, I did a full reset and reformat of the HD. For a while, it worked perfectly. Now it doesn't.

Maybe a week ago, while watching FOX, I rewound to catch something that I had missed. The unit completely crapped out, but when I changed channels it came back to life. Okay, strike one, but I can live with that.

Things worked fine for a while. Then this morning I turn on the end of the xavier-ohio state game on my HTPC and decide to compare the OTA PQ to the HR-20. Well, wouldn't you know it, the HR-20 is basically unresponsive. I change to channel 8, it tells me that basketball is on, but all I get is a gray screen. I can't change any channels. So I do a red button reset and tune to channel 8. So far, so good. I conclusively determine for my ownself that the dreaded 8mm effect is gone. Although OTA is a bit better, the HR-20 does an impressive job with it's MPEG-4 transcode of the OTA signal.

Then Ohio State ties the game with a 3-pointer. I decide to rewind a bit to rewatch this pivotal moment in the game.

And wouldn't you guess it? The unit totally craps out on me.

This thing I must say is a total piece of steaming you know what. Either it's a huge Xavier fan and took it's pain out on me, or it's the biggest joke ever.

I'm a complete numbskull, and I really don't want to subscribe to cable, so I'm going to try one of my other HR-20 boxes which has been sitting unplugged. Hopefully that one will work better. If not, it must be something related to my setup. Maybe the HR-20 doesn't work with obscure TV's like Sony SXRD's and obscure receiver brands like Sony.

By the way, my gut tells me that one of two things is going on: either the HR-20 has serious problems with HDCP or it has serious problems with hardware.

Actually, now that I mention that, I'm going to try this test first: I'm going to use component video cables. I like the tidiness of HDMI much better, but if I can make this *&**DF*D*D&## thing work with component I'll be happy while I wait for the D* tuner for Vista.

Jedster,
I really sympathize with you regarding your problems with the hr20.
It seems that although the general consensus (see http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112) is that the overall performance and feature set of the box is getting better, there are still people such as yourself who are having major issues.
I have 2 hr20s for about the same amount of time you've had yours. In the beginning, I had a few problems, since the Cutting Edge program has begun, my boxes have been very reliable.
If you haven't already, check in at the DirecTv forum linked to above. The people there are very helpful and there just may be something that you can try. You have already cited one of the possible work-arounds--going to component cables, but there are other things you may be able to try. You said that the unit "totally craps out". Now that can mean many things, and depending on exactly what happened and what you were doing while it happened, there may be something that can be done to avoid that scenario.
Living out here in Pahrump, the hr20 was a godsend--there is no other way to get network HD, and so I was really happy the box, warts and all, debuted when it did--three months after moving in.
I hope your problems can be sorted out, as this box has such great potential.
Good Luck,
Rick

Jedster,
I really sympathize with you regarding your problems with the hr20.
It seems that although the general consensus (see http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112) is that the overall performance and feature set of the box is getting better, there are still people such as yourself who are having major issues.
I have 2 hr20s for about the same amount of time you've had yours. In the beginning, I had a few problems, since the Cutting Edge program has begun, my boxes have been very reliable.
If you haven't already, check in at the DirecTv forum linked to above. The people there are very helpful and there just may be something that you can try. You have already cited one of the possible work-arounds--going to component cables, but there are other things you may be able to try. You said that the unit "totally craps out". Now that can mean many things, and depending on exactly what happened and what you were doing while it happened, there may be something that can be done to avoid that scenario.
Living out here in Pahrump, the hr20 was a godsend--there is no other way to get network HD, and so I was really happy the box, warts and all, debuted when it did--three months after moving in.
I hope your problems can be sorted out, as this box has such great potential.
Good Luck,
Rick

Thanks for your note Rick. Unfortunately, I've spent more than my fair share of time at DBS Talk -- thanks to this infernal DVR. I know that _most_ people have a pretty good experience with it; it's just too bad that mine is so horrid.

I use the generic "totally craps out" because there is such a broad spectrum of failed behavior, but it always involves some combination of an unresponsive unit, frozen or pixelated video, no audio, refusal to ff or rw, refusal to change channels.

I've spent enough time troubleshooting at dbstalk that I'm hesitant to return for that purpose, but I need to figure out my premium HD recording situation prior to the return of entourage and sopranos -- either that, or figure out if there is a viable download option for hd, preferably legal.

I'm also locked into D* for the long-run due to NFLST. I do hate monopolies. I also like that they will have so much HD content in the next 12 months and that they will probably have a better HTPC solution than cable, eventualy.

I guess if component doesn't work, I should probably go back to the HR10-250 for the short-term, but I don't like that option in the long-run because I'll miss out on so much new HD content.

Anyway, the component has been working for the last hour or so with just a red-button reset...

jedster, I really think you should pitch whatever fit it takes to get DirecTV to send you out a new unit. My HR20 is rock solid and I'm even running the beta ViiV (*cough* UPnP *cough*)
support to stream audio and pictures from my PC. The only real complaint I have about it is that DirecTV fouled up the caller id support the last national firmware release so I'm running a CE right now.

jedster, I really think you should pitch whatever fit it takes to get DirecTV to send you out a new unit. My HR20 is rock solid and I'm even running the beta ViiV (*cough* UPnP *cough*)
support to stream audio and pictures from my PC. The only real complaint I have about it is that DirecTV fouled up the caller id support the last national firmware release so I'm running a CE right now.

i agree. first i'm going to try this component thing, then try a different box i have.

i have 3 hr20s, 2 i own, 1 i lease. (i got a great great deal - $199 got me 2 that i own, 1 that i lease, and yes i've verified that D*'s records have me as owning 2 and leasing 1).

the problem with returning the two that i own is that i opened them up. now i know that a lot of people, especially on dbstalk, will lecture me about voiding warranties and such, and it's true that i have. but i know there is no way that what i did when opening them up is the cause of the issues that i have because the issues pre-dated my opening them up and haven't changed.

of course, that doesn't change the fact that D* might not see it the same way. it's not that big a deal, since i own the boxes, but still, it might limit my return options.

you may ask why did i open the box up? well it's pretty simple. my goal was to make the unit near-silent. initially i did it because i was using esata and i wanted to power down the seagate HDD that sits inside the box and the dumb hr20 wasn't smart enough to do it by itself. i then swapped the motherboard connector which had gone to the seagate and connected it to the esata port so the unit wouldn't think that the seagate had been disconnected, although i doubted it would care (it actaully powers up and tunes w/o an HD attached). i also unplugged the fan (there's no rpm sensor so the unit wouldn't know). i now cool the hr20 and the drive with an external quiet fan (120mm). anyway, just in case the problem was that the unit freaked out about not seeing the seagate HDD, i've now reattached the seagate HD to the motherboard and am using that as the main drive, although i've mounted it externally in a very quiet enclosure (i hate HD idle noise and especially hate the chirp-chirp of the seagate's seek noise). so now i'm running the original HD and have the unit more thoroughly cooled than before, yet it still barfs all the time.

EDIT: Oh, i've also had to send back at least one (it might have been two, i don't remember) of the HR20s aready.

i have 3 hr20s, 2 i own, 1 i lease. (i got a great great deal - $199 got me 2 that i own, 1 that i lease.

You said you OWN 2 HR-20 DVRs.

Of course, I don't expect to get them for the price you paid, but please tell me where DID you get them?

I believe that privately purchasing a new one in a factory closed box has a greater chance of providing me with an up-to-date, non defective unit than I would get if I leased it from Direct TV. A CSR told me on the phone (without hesitation) that almost ALL units provided by lease are units that have been returned as defective in some way, and have undergone "fixes" before they are re-assigned to another customer. I'm too old and too tired to worry about savings via a lease.
I've tried Circuit City, Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics and R.C. Willey. NOBODY has them in stock. I haven't yet tried FRYES, but I suspect the same thing will be true. Where DID you get them? I am willing to travel to another city for purchase. But this is a very big country. Any hints?

You said you OWN 2 HR-20 DVRs.

Of course, I don't expect to get them for the price you paid, but please tell me where DID you get them?

I believe that privately purchasing a new one in a factory closed box has a greater chance of providing me with an up-to-date, non defective unit than I would get if I leased it from Direct TV. A CSR told me on the phone (without hesitation) that almost ALL units provided by lease are units that have been returned as defective in some way, and have undergone "fixes" before they are re-assigned to another customer. I'm too old and too tired to worry about savings via a lease.
I've tried Circuit City, Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics and R.C. Willey. NOBODY has them in stock. I haven't yet tried FRYES, but I suspect the same thing will be true. Where DID you get them? I am willing to travel to another city for purchase. But this is a very big country. Any hints?

I ordered them by phone when the units first came out. I've been with D* for 11 or 12 years now and my sob story was that I had bought two HR10-250s for $1k each and that I didn't want to replace them with units that I leased. Basically I think I won the CSR roulette because he agreed to sell me 2 new ones for $199. When the installer delivered them, he actually had brought a 3rd which was a surprise to me. I think it was a mistake but they let me keep it as a leased unit.

I think that I went throught he cancellation department, which is pretty much my modus operandi every time I call D*. I simply say "Cancel Service" to the very nice computer attendant because it seems like the best CSRs are on their retention desk.

Good luck -- IIRC, the list price on a new HR20 is something like $700 or $800. THe list price for a lease is $199, and that's what I think most retailers peddle. Those units may be refurbed as well.

But I also find it hard to believe what you were told; if true, it means that D* has basically ceased production of the HR20, either because there is no demand, or because they have so many refurbed units they don't need new ones. Neither of those scenarios make any sense.

I'd just go ahead and get a leased unit and if it doesn't work, then return it. It seems like your chances of having a good experience are probably in the 67% range, perhaps even as high as 80%.

But I wouldn't spend $800 to buy a unit. Hey, but you can have both of mine for $750 total!

You said you OWN 2 HR-20 DVRs.

Of course, I don't expect to get them for the price you paid, but please tell me where DID you get them?

I believe that privately purchasing a new one in a factory closed box has a greater chance of providing me with an up-to-date, non defective unit than I would get if I leased it from Direct TV. A CSR told me on the phone (without hesitation) that almost ALL units provided by lease are units that have been returned as defective in some way, and have undergone "fixes" before they are re-assigned to another customer. I'm too old and too tired to worry about savings via a lease.
I've tried Circuit City, Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics and R.C. Willey. NOBODY has them in stock. I haven't yet tried FRYES, but I suspect the same thing will be true. Where DID you get them? I am willing to travel to another city for purchase. But this is a very big country. Any hints?

Word,
Unless they had a huge turnover, the BB on Marks had 5 on the shelf last Tuesday.
Good luck,
Rick

KLAS is covering the UNLV game with the SD constant coverage feed again.

You said you OWN 2 HR-20 DVRs.

Of course, I don't expect to get them for the price you paid, but please tell me where DID you get them?

I believe that privately purchasing a new one in a factory closed box has a greater chance of providing me with an up-to-date, non defective unit than I would get if I leased it from Direct TV. A CSR told me on the phone (without hesitation) that almost ALL units provided by lease are units that have been returned as defective in some way, and have undergone "fixes" before they are re-assigned to another customer. I'm too old and too tired to worry about savings via a lease.
I've tried Circuit City, Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics and R.C. Willey. NOBODY has them in stock. I haven't yet tried FRYES, but I suspect the same thing will be true. Where DID you get them? I am willing to travel to another city for purchase. But this is a very big country. Any hints?

Word I upgraded to the HR20 last week with the new dish and they installed a brand new unit from a sealed box, the replacement unit they sent for my hr10-250 was a refurbbed unit. Both units seem to be working fine.

KLAS is covering the UNLV game with the SD constant coverage feed again.
Yet they showed the Nevada game in HD

Yet they showed the Nevada game in HD

Because there were less games in the 2nd round, CBS was able to offer HD constant coverage of some of them.

Unless there is a problem at KLAS or CBS, the UNLV Sweet 16 game should be HD.

Word I upgraded to the HR20 last week with the new dish and they installed a brand new unit from a sealed box


Lionsfan,
Thanks for your response. I want to upgrade to HD simply for the MLB-Extra Innings package. I understand that many of the games formerly only available in SD (even though they were transmitted to Direct Tv in HD) will now be transmitted in HD BY Direct TV. Also how would you rate the picture quality in HD of the HR-20 DVR, especially on the local network stations (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX)? I've read some disquieting rumors about CBS in particular, having an "8mm film" look to it.

Thanks for any information that you can provide.

Lionsfan,
Thanks for your response. I want to upgrade to HD simply for the MLB-Extra Innings package. I understand that many of the games formerly only available in SD (even though they were transmitted to Direct Tv in HD) will now be transmitted in HD BY Direct TV. Also how would you rate the picture quality in HD of the HR-20 DVR, especially on the local network stations (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX)? I've read some disquieting rumors about CBS in particular, having an "8mm film" look to it.

Thanks for any information that you can provide.

The 8mm effect has been fixed. Overall the local HD PQ looks almost as good as OTA. I'll put it this way: if the HR20 had the feature set of an HTPC, I'd happily go with the HR20's PQ now that the 8mm has been fixed, and when D* comes out with their HTPC tuner card, I may use their feed instead of OTA because it will use less disk space.

Everything has been fine on my unit since I switched to component, but I'm not going to to declare victory just yet. It's also a lot more fun to use now that I've figured out how to make the buttons in my harmony remote use less delay, so the unit "feels" more responsive.

GeorgeLV: is your unit connected via HDMI or Component? If HDMI, do you also use spdif audio out?

GeorgeLV: is your unit connected via HDMI or Component? If HDMI, do you also use spdif audio out?

Component because I have zero overscan through HDMI. I now use the spdif optical out for audio (except for the 5.1 challenged CBS for which I use the analog outs so I can use Dolby Pro Logic.)

Please somebody explain:

What is an HTPC tuner card and what is an spdif out for audio.

Thank You.

Component because I have zero overscan through HDMI. I now use the spdif optical out for audio (except for the 5.1 challenged CBS for which I use the analog outs so I can use Dolby Pro Logic.)

okay. same as me now; before i was hdmi & spdif. i wonder if the HR20's handlng of hdcp didn't like having the hdmi and spdif on at the same time? (I know spdif isn't copy protected.) hopefully this setup works as the PQ seems just as good via component.

side note: that sounds like a pain to have a different input for CBS (and i assume also the all the SD channels). what type of receiver do you have? on my sony (and also on my yamaha which preceded it) i can set the receiver to decode 2 channel dolby and pcm into pro logic while not touching 5.1 and dts (at least i am pretty sure those are left unadulterated). on the sony i just press the a.f.d. button a single time to put it into pro logic mode. is there a similar option on yours?

Please somebody explain:

What is an HTPC tuner card and what is an spdif out for audio.

Thank You.

spdif is just digital audio output for audio, there are two common jack-types: coax (which really is more like an rca cable type of jack) and optical (or toslink). it doesn't have copy protection which is why i was thinking that maybe the hr20 doesn't like having it in use while hdmi (which has hdcp, or high definition content protection) is in use.

here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPDIF

an htpc tuner card generically is any kind of tuner card that you'd use in a home theater personal computer (htpc). i suspect that the "htpc" part is what was confusing; you'd never find an htpc tuner card in an STB -- by definition. however, sometimes the core components of the tuner card are the same. for example, i'm pretty sure that the HR20 uses the same ATSC tuner for OTA high def as the tuner cards in my PC (manufactured for my htpc by vbox communications, the same company developing directv's htpc card which will enable my pc to receive directv signals). generally if you find me bitching and whining about htpc tuner cards it's either (a) that d* hasn't delivered it's card which it promised over a year ago or (b) that cable's htpc tuner solution is hopelessly expensive and limiting

side note: that sounds like a pain to have a different input for CBS (and i assume also the all the SD channels). what type of receiver do you have? on my sony (and also on my yamaha which preceded it) i can set the receiver to decode 2 channel dolby and pcm into pro logic while not touching 5.1 and dts (at least i am pretty sure those are left unadulterated). on the sony i just press the a.f.d. button a single time to put it into pro logic mode. is there a similar option on yours?

A cheap one. :) I only have to switch on Dolby Digital 2.0; it knows to do pro logic on PCM 2.0. I have both the L/R analog outs and the optical out connected to my receiver. When I watch a Dolby 2.0 channel like KLAS or a channel that is running fake 5.1 on a program I just hit the button on my remote to switch to the analog input.

PS. Maybe we should take up a collection plate for KLAS or something. It's mindboggling that with all the money they spent on HD local news, they still haven't made the relatively cheap upgrade to DD5.1.

UNLV game on Friday night....will it be HD or the SD Constant BS? There is another game on at the same time (USC vs. N. Carolina)

UNLV game on Friday night....will it be HD or the SD Constant BS? There is another game on at the same time (USC vs. N. Carolina)

CBS is supposed to be able to produce 4 HD feeds at the same time so they should have both the flex feeds and the constant feeds in HD.

A cheap one. :) I only have to switch on Dolby Digital 2.0; it knows to do pro logic on PCM 2.0. I have both the L/R analog outs and the optical out connected to my receiver. When I watch a Dolby 2.0 channel like KLAS or a channel that is running fake 5.1 on a program I just hit the button on my remote to switch to the analog input.

PS. Maybe we should take up a collection plate for KLAS or something. It's mindboggling that with all the money they spent on HD local news, they still haven't made the relatively cheap upgrade to DD5.1.

the station gm told me (by e-mail) that they'd have dd5.1 within the next 12-18 months...i think that she said that maybe 4 or 5 months ago? it was whenever fox & abc first went up in D* hd and klas and kvbc trailed.

but yes, dd5.1 makes such a big difference.

also a collection plate is needed for KVBC so they can put out some better video signals (their OTA reception issues notwithstanding)

Anybody else missing sound on KVMY 21-1?

Anyone in Las Vegas interested in a pair of B&W 801F series?

Howdy all.

I have something crazy going on. I've been losing my signal on channel 8-1 HD. I was thinking that it was a antenna problem. My off-air antenna is many years old, and my signal lose has just been going on the last few weeks. The signal goes in and out. So i went down and picked up a new antenna that was two fold bigger than my old antenna. VHF-UHF-FM hooked it up sat down to watch the tube and the same thing signal goes in and out. So I go outside making sure the antenna was pointed the right way and all. Then i noticed in my line of sight to the towers, about two miles from me on the strip. They are building two new hotel towers. And there are two cranes sticking way up there along side of these towers. So I go down off the roof and grab a portable TV going on the roof hooked it up to my antenna. Tuned the TV to channel 8, and when the cranes were moving from one side to the other my picture would get poor. Now I ask you folks can this be for real. Like I said they are two to three miles away. I've never had a problem like this. And it's only start with this problem for the last few weeks. And also the new hotel towers are getting way high now. Can this really be my problem ?

Thanks for any replys,
Bugnosis

Howdy all.

I have something crazy going on. I've been losing my signal on channel 8-1 HD. I was thinking that it was a antenna problem. My off-air antenna is many years old, and my signal lose has just been going on the last few weeks. The signal goes in and out. So i went down and picked up a new antenna that was two fold bigger than my old antenna. VHF-UHF-FM hooked it up sat down to watch the tube and the same thing signal goes in and out. So I go outside making sure the antenna was pointed the right way and all. Then i noticed in my line of sight to the towers, about two miles from me on the strip. They are building two new hotel towers. And there are two cranes sticking way up there along side of these towers. So I go down off the roof and grab a portable TV going on the roof hooked it up to my antenna. Tuned the TV to channel 8, and when the cranes were moving from one side to the other my picture would get poor. Now I ask you folks can this be for real. Like I said they are two to three miles away. I've never had a problem like this. And it's only start with this problem for the last few weeks. And also the new hotel towers are getting way high now. Can this really be my problem ?

Thanks for any replys,
Bugnosis

Possibly, impulse noise is an unavoidable problem on VHF. However, given the age of your installation, your cable run may have gone bad as well.

If you have an indoor antenna handy, see if it locks the digital signal for channel 8 with a stable signal strength.

If you can't pinpoint the cause of your reception difficulties or don't want the hassle, you can always subscribe to Cox or DirecTV (Dish Network does not carry the Las Vegas HD locals).

I noticed that Cox is now running a commercial featuring the Scintas promoting interactive TV. They talk about how you can vote and participate in contests using your A, B and C buttons on your remote.

I've seen this commercial a few times over the last couple of weeks...but I've never seen any interactive programming. Has anyone else? Anyone got any more info?

Anyone in Las Vegas interested in a pair of B&W 801F series?

*drool*

What do you drive those monsters with?

*drool*

What do you drive those monsters with?

I had an Aragon amp which made them sing. These are not the Nautilus line but the original f series. They are awesome sounding but now that I have my theater Idon't listen to 2 channel much anymore and my better half does not want the added clutter.

Hello All,

I just picked up a dvi hd card today. Could someone point me to a good site that lists what the cox hd channels are. I can't find cbs hd. I've got fox, abc, and nbc in hd.

What is RF?
What is Modul?

Why can the same rf have different Modul????

I.E.

rf = 102 Modul = 1
rf = 102 Modul = 2
rf = 102 Modul = 3
rf = 102 Modul = 4
rf = 102 Modul = 5

Can you expand on the service section? What is D2_4_NB? I realize nb is short for nbc. What is the rest?

Thanks!

Do people in Las Vegas have very little to say or ask, or do they simply know everything? This post is the first new post in a week.

Do people in Las Vegas have very little to say or ask, or do they simply know everything? This post is the first new post in a week.

All true, we were waiting for you :D

Do people in Las Vegas have very little to say or ask, or do they simply know everything? This post is the first new post in a week.

This thread is 165 pages. Unless something changes I think we have this topic covered.

Everyone in Vegas is all knowing-just axe them :)

anyone for tennis?

Since nobody seems to be posting anything, here are the latest channel line-ups on the area services as I can figure.


Las Vegas HD Channel Guide 3/30/07

Broadcast Networks OTA Cox DirecTV Dish CMA (Pahrump)
------------------ ----- ----- --------- ------ -------------
ABC (KTNV) 13-1 732 13
CBS (KLAS) 8-1 730 8
Fox (KVVU) 5-1 735 5
NBC (KVBC) 3-1 733 3
PBS (KLVX) 10-1 731
CW (KVCW) 33-1
MyTV (KVMY) 21-1

Cable Networks (*part time)
------------------
A&E HD 9419
Discovery HD 700 76 9421 555
ESPN HD 704 73 9424 550
ESPN2 HD 705 72 9425
Food Network HD 9462
HDNet 79 9422
HDNet Movies 78 9423
HGTV HD 9461
INHD 706
MHD 725
National Geographic HD 98* 9429 570
TNT HD 709 75 9420 565
Universal HD 708 74 9427 560

Specialty Sports (*part time, $subscription required)
---------------
FSN West HD 95*
FSN Prime Ticket HD 95*
MLB EI HD varies*$
NBA LP HD 95*$ 9467*$
NBA TV HD 707* 95* 9466*
NHL CI HD 95*$ 9467*$
NFL Network HD 707* 95* 9464
NFL Sunday Ticket HD varies*$
Versus HD 707* 95*

Premium Networks (*East Coast Feed)
------------------
HBO HD 710 70* 9456* 510
Cinemax HD 711 530
Showtime HD 720 71* 9460* 520
Starz HD 721 9435*

Voom Networks
------------------
Animania HD 9474
Equator HD 9471
Family Room HD 9486
Film Fest HD 9480
Gallery HD 9472
GamePlay HD 9485
HDNews 9482
Kung Fu HD 9479
Monsters HD 9481
Rave HD 9470
Rush HD 9476
Treasure HD 9477
Ultra HD 9478
World Cinema HD 9475
WorldSport HD 9473

Patiently waiting for another HD channel or two from Cox {sigh}

Patiently waiting for another HD channel or two from Cox {sigh}

Yep, it's kind of puzzling what's taking them so long. Maybe they don't want to commit to anymore until they see what DirecTV launches with.

When they took off INHD2 and left the channel up for "future" use , I kind of thought another HD channel would be coming soon, but they ended up taking down that channel all together. :(

NBC-HD was acting crazy last night. Its audio was going nuts.
Background music and conversation was at correct audio levels, but dialogue between principal actors was almost inaudible. It sounded like they were talking under 10 blankets.
So naturally, I called Cox.
And received the usual disappointing responses.
After reporting the problem to the "tech" (ahem-clearing of throat), they put me on hold and when they came back on, they acknowledged that such a problerm was exisiting. Of course, they blamed NBC. And they may have been correct. But I absolutely lose patience with Cox when I perceive that they do NOT monitor their transmitted signal in any way. The problem had persisted for about 2 hrs when I called them, and they said they hadn't noticed it because nobody complained about it. WHY DOES ANYBODY HAVE TO COMPLAIN? Is there quality control or isn't there quailty control? If there is a problem, doesn't Cox have a responsibility to notify NBC, even though NBC was apparently also asleep at the switch?

I'm from N.Y. And in NY that kind of problem wouldn't exist for more than a few minutes without some responsible party detecting and fixing it, or notifying the correct technicians in order to fix it. In that sense, Las Vegas is way behind other great cities.

NBC-HD was acting crazy last night. Its audio was going nuts.
Background music and conversation was at correct audio levels, but dialogue between principal actors was almost inaudible. It sounded like they were talking under 10 blankets.
So naturally, I called Cox.
And received the usual disappointing responses.
After reporting the problem to the "tech" (ahem-clearing of throat), they put me on hold and when they came back on, they acknowledged that such a problerm was exisiting. Of course, they blamed NBC. And they may have been correct. But I absolutely lose patience with Cox when I perceive that they do NOT monitor their transmitted signal in any way. The problem had persisted for about 2 hrs when I called them, and they said they hadn't noticed it because nobody complained about it. WHY DOES ANYBODY HAVE TO COMPLAIN? Is there quality control or isn't there quailty control? If there is a problem, doesn't Cox have a responsibility to notify NBC, even though NBC was apparently also asleep at the switch?

I'm from N.Y. And in NY that kind of problem wouldn't exist for more than a few minutes without some responsible party detecting and fixing it, or notifying the correct technicians in order to fix it. In that sense, Las Vegas is way behind other great cities.
I call BS. NY would also have the same problem.
There is no economical way to visually monitor every channel available. Do you think they should have some great big warehouse with a person stationed in front of a single channel watching it 24/7. Hmm lets see, there are about 500 total channels, so you would need 500 TV's with 500 people watching in at least three shifts. No MSO, either cable or sat does this. All monitoring is done with automatic failovers to switch inputs if a signal is lost.
You should wonder why NBC, who only has to monitor ONE channel, which is playing troughout their facility, did not catch the problems sooner.

vegggas

Yep, it's kind of puzzling what's taking them so long. Maybe they don't want to commit to anymore until they see what DirecTV launches with.
Didn't we just get Universal, TNT and MHD somewhat recently?
Cox, and other providers are looking at the big picture when adding HD channels. With the additions of more HD channels in the universe in 2008, there will be several inroads to providing those channels.
As I have stated before, when asked point blank about how many HD channels could be delivered in the near future, the answer was "all of them". This was not limited to the dozen limited national HD channels available now, but the explosion of HD channels becoming available by 2008.
Knowing what I have learned in the last 9 months, I can see no future dfference between what Cox is providing or will provide compared to other providers with the same carriage contracts.

vegggas

Didn't we just get Universal, TNT and MHD somewhat recently?

No. Universal HD and TNT HD were added to Cox in October of 2005! MHD was added last October.

At this rate, once the translator on Mt. Potosi goes digital and they can get the local channels in HD, CMA in Pahrump will have the best cable HD lineup in the Las Vegas area.

When they took off INHD2 and left the channel up for "future" use , I kind of thought another HD channel would be coming soon, but they ended up taking down that channel all together. :(

Speaking of INHD, I pulled up their schedule and it looks like they don't have any MLB this season. IMO, the channel is beginning to look like the homeless man's version of HDNet. I can't imagine it lasting much longer in the current format.

As an abandoned cable-subscribing baseball fan, I would hope at least Cox could revisit the possibility of airing San Diego Padre games in HD. This would be at least some consolation to us that were used to watching baseball in HD via INHD. Anybody heard anything regarding Padre HD?

You should wonder why NBC, who only has to monitor ONE channel, which is playing troughout their facility, did not catch the problems sooner.

vegggas

Veggas,
This is what I said,

"If there is a problem, doesn't Cox have a responsibility to notify NBC, even though NBC was apparently also asleep at the switch?"
_______________________________________

Don't you EVER read a complete post? I'm beginning to think you don't.

Has anybody heard if Sinclair is going to carry the Diamondbacks again this year on CW 33 and MyLVTV 21? I'm kind of annoyed that I was blacked out of their game on EI HD and that was only available on KTVK 3 in Phoenix.

Speaking of baseball, I wonder what the chances are of Cox showing any of the FSN HD games of the Angels or Dodgers?

And yes...another vote to see the Padres in HD.

On a side note, GeorgeLV and I went back and forth a bit regarding the MLB blackouts and how unfair Vegas gets treated on the programming AVS thread. George brought up a good point that Cox could carry FSN Bay Area and FSN Arizona if they wanted. The number one question is: What would it cost Cox? How much more would it cost per subscriber? What if they were added to the sports tier on digital cable only? I'm sure that these two RSN's will never get added; but I wonder if it's ever been considered by Cox? Maybe it should be.

Send Cox an email about it. Tell them how your tired of getting hosed by MLB blackout rules since you can't even get the channel they are trying to force you to watch.

Speaking of baseball, I wonder what the chances are of Cox showing any of the FSN HD games of the Angels or Dodgers?

And yes...another vote to see the Padres in HD.


Contacted COX a couple months back about FSN HD, said it's not on the list right now, but they would add the request to a list. I asked what is coming as far as HD for Cox and they couldn't tell me anything.

George brought up a good point that Cox could carry FSN Bay Area and FSN Arizona if they wanted.

Direct TV has em', and has had em' for years. The entire Sports Pak costs a big $10 per month and you can suspend it during the baseball off-season.

This has NOTHING to do with the MLB-EI package. If the game is carried by FSN Bay or FSN Arizona, you get em'. But if its carried by any other stations, you don't.
Another reason why D* is great and Cox brings up the rear.

A question to baseball starved Cox users, are you still getting the 4SD feeds of the Padres games? (Padres vs. Giants was on this afternoon.)

Yes. It was on Channel 96 today as the Padres shutout the Giants.

Yes. It was on Channel 96 today as the Padres shutout the Giants.

Well, now that that's covered, we can get a handle on the RSN situation for Baseball.

Cox
49 FSN West - Angels
50 FSN Prime Ticket - Dodgers
96 4SD - Padres

DirecTV
652 FSN West - Angels
653 FSN Prime Ticket - Dodgers
654 FSN Bay Area* - A's, Giants
649 FSN Arizona* - D'backs

Dish Network
417 FSN West - Angels
411 FSN Prime Ticket - Dodgers


*Sports Pack required (apparently Dish Multi-Sport doesn't work like DirecTV Sports Pack)

Direct TV has em', and has had em' for years. The entire Sports Pak costs a big $10 per month and you can suspend it during the baseball off-season.

This has NOTHING to do with the MLB-EI package. If the game is carried by FSN Bay or FSN Arizona, you get em'.

No you don't.

Well I guess when there is nothin to talk about we can talk about sports.

Looks like things are pretty stale now days in the HT world. Cox needs to liven it up a bit and add some channels and whats to happen with the USDTV channels?

For me? I just got a new Red Mustang GT so thats what I've been obsessing about lately :) The Police, Rush, Morrissey are all coming to town soon so looks like I'm gonna watch a lot less TV.

No you don't.

Yes, I assure you that we do.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageIF.jsp?assetId=P3000004

The 89048 ZIP Code is in the home team territory for the following pro team(s):

SD: Standard Definition
HD: High Definition

With any TOTAL CHOICE® package:



FSN West (Ch. 652)
# Los Angeles Angels (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Galaxy (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Kings (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Lakers (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Sparks (SD Only)

FSN Prime Ticket (Ch. 653)
# Anaheim Mighty Ducks (SD Only)
# Chivas USA (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Clippers (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Dodgers (SD Only)

With any TOTAL CHOICE® Premier package or any TOTAL CHOICE® package plus SPORTS Pack, you also get:


FSN Arizona (Ch. 649)
# Arizona Diamondbacks (SD Only)
# Phoenix Coyotes (SD Only)

FSN West (Ch. 652)
# Los Angeles Angels (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Galaxy (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Kings (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Lakers (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Sparks (SD Only)

FSN Prime Ticket (Ch. 653)
# Anaheim Mighty Ducks (SD Only)
# Chivas USA (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Clippers (SD Only)
# Los Angeles Dodgers (SD Only)

FSN Bay Area (Ch. 654)
# Oakland Athletics (SD Only)
# San Francisco Giants (SD Only)

The folks in Las Vegas valley zip codes get the same except for the Coyotes. And the SD only isn't exactly true. If a game happens to be carried in HD on channel 95 we get it in HD; the SD only notation just means that the mpeg4 RSNs aren't available here yet.

Thank you GeorgeLV

I guess we can add bruin95 to the list of know-it-alls that are invariably WRONG.

Thank you GeorgeLV

I guess we can add bruin95 to the list of know-it-alls that are invariably WRONG.

So how is it that a friend of mine in town who has D* and subs to both the sports pack and EI CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT receive ANY Giants, A's, or Diamondback games. They are blacked out, on his system, no matter what channel they're on. He has made several phone calls to D* complaining about this, stating that these are considered "home" teams and that he shouldn't be blacked out of the games. He was told that FSN West and Prime Ticket were the ONLY recognized HOME RSN's for Las Vegas since FSN Arizona, and Bay Area are NOT carried here locally. Games on FSN Arizona and Bay Area ARE blacked out through E*. Always have been. Those games are also blacked out through the MLBTV.com package. Always have been. So what's your answer to that you pompous JACKASS!!

So how is it that a friend of mine in town who has D* and subs to both the sports pack and EI CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT receive ANY Giants, A's, or Diamondback games. They are blacked out, on his system, no matter what channel they're on. He has made several phone calls to D* complaining about this, stating that these are considered "home" teams and that he shouldn't be blacked out of the games. He was told that FSN West and Prime Ticket were the ONLY recognized HOME RSN's for Las Vegas since FSN Arizona, and Bay Area are NOT carried here locally. Games on FSN Arizona and Bay Area ARE blacked out through E*. Always have been. Those games are also blacked out through the MLBTV.com package. Always have been. <omitting the last line since it's not directed at me>

Tell your friend to have DirecTV "rehit" the receiver to make sure all of his channel authorizations are working correctly. If he subscribes to the sports pack (extra innings or not) and DirecTV has his address correct he should receive the D'Backs games on FSN Arizona on 649 and the Giants and A's games on FSN Bay Area on 654.

D'backs, Giants, and A's games that are only broadcast on a local channel in Phoenix or San Francisco will still be blacked out, and there's nothing you can do about it other than calling the programming directors and general managers of our local stations and asking them to buy the rights to those games (last year Sinclair had the D'backs on 21 and 33, this year it doesn't look like any channel is carrying "local" baseball.)

edit-sometimes pictures are worth a thousand words of explanation

Extra Innings :(
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5038/eiblackoutmz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Sports Pack :)
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7917/fsnarizonafc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

enough with standard definition baseball talk, let's get some HD

FSN West HD

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4335/fsnwestoo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1) Lets take the game between the Rockies and the D'Backs that is being played right now, and which I am watching.

If you go to the listing at MLB-EI, the game is blacked out in the LV area. This is because the MLB-EI feed is coming from the Rockies station. MLB-EI ALWAYS uses the hometeam feed if possible.

BUT- If you go to FSAZ, which is also carrying the game but is not being used for the MLB-EI feed, the game is ON!!!!

2) Now lets take the Rangers-Angels game which is also on now. The MLB-EL channel is NOT blacked out because the Angels are the home team and that is the feed that EI uses. If you wish you can also view the game on FSW

Some hope for you Cox guys trying to get them to add more HD channels.

Cox in New Orleans added National Geographic Channel HD on 3/20.

Cox Cable has reached an agreement to carry MLB Extra Innings. No word on whether Dish Network will carry the package.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070404&content_id=1879904&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Cox Cable has reached an agreement to carry MLB Extra Innings. No word on whether Dish Network will carry the package.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070404&content_id=1879904&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

GeorgeLV,

That's great news for Cox Cable subscribers. But for lovers of baseball Cox will still not make any Sports Pak available. Thus any games carried on Fox Sports Bay Area and Fox Sports Arizona, will still be UN-available to cable subscribers. If you're a real baseball fan, stick with Direct TV.

MLB has found the deepest recess of their own bowels and firmly lodged their brain in it.

I am a Mariners fan. I only want MLBEI to watch Mariners games.

The Mariners are in the AL West and their interleague rival is the Padres.

That means that I cannot get any Mariners versus A's, Padres, or Angels games UNLESS the appropriate RSN happens to be carrying the game. That's about 25% of their games. I also can't get many of their Saturday and Sunday games against other teams. That's probably another 10% of their games.

But the worst thing is that I can't get any of the Mariners HD feeds for these games since those are all broadcast by the Mariners.

The only solution that I have is to claim to D* that I have an address in Seattle. Now I can get all of the Mariners games. Of course, once the NFL season starts, I'll have to change my address back, because I won't be able to get any Seahawks games via NFLST if my address is in Seattle. That probably wont' be a problem as the mariners suck.

(I get all my local channels OTA, so the only potential thing I will miss out is spot beamed RSN HD, but unless I'm missing something, I've seen ZILCHO in that department.)

But the bottom line is that I am not an MLBEI customer because of their stupid blackout rules, which partly derive from the fact that Bud Selig is a wimp who will not stand up to teams and tell them that they (a) have no rights to out-of-market broadcasts and (b) can only define their "home market" within reasonable, say 25-50 mile, boundaries.

I mean for crying out loud it is a joke that so many F***ING teams claim LV as their home market. I want LV to get a MLB team just so those teams can't keep on claiming LV as their home market.

For all you golf lovers out there, dont forget, you can see early round coverage of the Masters in glorious HD . The Cox guide says it will be on Universal HD but I remember last year the CBS HD feed was used.

A friend jost got a good deal on the new 52" Sharp Aquos set. One of the best looking pictures that I have seen!

I contacted Cox about FSN BA and AZ 3 years ago. They flat out told me they will never carry those RSNs. Rainbow Media (who owns FSNBA) would require Cox to put them in the basic tier which would make the cost extremely high.

On another note...There is a "CE" release coming out for the HR20 that should fix your abilitiy to pick up NBC OTA. Read the thread over at DBSTalk if interested...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=84598&page=2

sorry if this is the wrong place to ask but did cox stop transmitting tvguide data on their pbs channel?? I have a hdd / dvd recorder and have lost all listings for the last three weeks. nothing else in my setup changed. everything used to work perfectly but lately the recorder continuously cycles through channels failing to find a channel with tvguide information. thanx for any help!!

Does anyone know if Cox here in Vegas offers the HD games on InDemand's Extra Innings schedule? Were there any last year, and if so, what channel? 701?

I thank whomever can answer this question.

Jason

Does anyone know if Cox here in Vegas offers the HD games on InDemand's Extra Innings schedule? Were there any last year, and if so, what channel? 701?

I thank whomever can answer this question.

Jason

AFAIK, HD games on Extra Innings in new for cable this year. I don't known if Cox is or will be carrying it. What Cox did have last year was 3 MLB HD games a week on the cable-exclusive INHD, but it appears so that INHD won't be carrying the MLB this season.

BTW, if you haven't subscribed already, you might want to consider whether you really want EI from Cox or if it makes sense to you to get DirecTV because of the blackout situation in Vegas.

Cox pluses
Padres games on channel 96

Cox minuses
Almost all games involving the A's, D'backs, and Giants are blacked out. (Cox is free to negotiate with FSN Bay Area and FSN Arizona for access to these games, but so far they haven't struck a deal, and as gworkman explains it is unlikely that they ever will make a deal.)

Cox unknowns
EI HD??

DirecTV pluses
A's and Giants on FSN Bay Area on channel 654
D'backs on FSN Arizona on channel 649
about 10 HD games a week*
game mix/interactive*
Strike Zone channel*

DirecTV minuses
Almost all games involving the Padres blacked out. (Channel 4 San Diego falls under the terrestrial loophole so Cox is not required to offer it to satellite.)

*$40 Superfan add-on required

Coming to KLAS digital sub channel on 4/26...

A good addition for the hispanic community.

http://www.latv.com/sales/articles/...astMarkets.html

Coming to KLAS digital sub channel on 4/26...

A good addition for the hispanic community.

http://www.latv.com/sales/articles/...astMarkets.html

Now with working link goodness to the bad news:

http://www.latv.com/sales/articles/broadCastMarkets.html

So wait, KLAS's 19.2Mb/s is going to have another station piggybacking on it? Ugh, more compression.

I can't believe it. I saw The New Zoo Review today on 13.2

What a treat, the kids loved it too.

Whats that on 8? More spanish stuff. Just what we need :eek:

I can't believe it. I saw The New Zoo Review today on 13.2

What a treat, the kids loved it too.

Whats that on 8? More spanish stuff. Just what we need :eek:

There's nothing wrong with more Spanish stuff, it's just that with USDTV gone, KBLR Telemundo has what, 15Mbps of free band width and KINC Univision has 12Mbps of free bandwidth (they also have the Telefutura sub) so why no put in on one of those channels where the target audience will find it and it won't affect HD bandwidth?

I can't believe it. I saw The New Zoo Review today on 13.2

What a treat, the kids loved it too.

Whats that on 8? More spanish stuff. Just what we need :eek:

The new zoo review. What's that. Is Vegas finally getting a decent zoo?

Is anyone using a Tivo Series 3 box? If so, I am considering it and am wondering what the experience has been with Cox on the cable card installation, and what the overall user experience is with this new box?

Thanks for any responses

My mom has one and since the software update she hasn't had any problem with it. The user experience is good. They have unbox on it so you can rent or buy movies from Amazon.com and it downloads straight to the TiVo. It also looks really nice and is THX certified. Cox does charge you for two cards and two digital gateways for the unit though.

The New Zoo Review is an OLD kids show, with live people and people wearing felt? costumes. I watched it when I was a kid (I'm now 37).

Is anyone using a Tivo Series 3 box? If so, I am considering it and am wondering what the experience has been with Cox on the cable card installation, and what the overall user experience is with this new box?

Thanks for any responses

If you're fabulously rich and absolutely must have a TiVo (tm) DVR than go for it. Just don't whine when you don't get any new HD channels because cable cards don't support SDV.

If you are of moderate budget or would like your DVR to support SDV HD channels, entertainment on demand, PPV, and any other future technologies Cox rolls out, just stick with their HD DVR.

Cox told me via email that they have no plans to offer any games in the Extra Innings package in HD. I emailed the schedule to them via InDemand's site, and that was their answer.

I told them I will purchase the package because of this.

Bad news. I wish they would get their act together.

Jason

typo: I told them I will NOT purchase the package without HD content.

The people in Las Vegas do NOT get bent out of shape over lack of baseball coverage in any format, let alone in HD. Baseball is just not big in Las Vegas. But let Cox DARE not to carry an NFL game in HD and all hell would break loose. And if you recall there was a big todo over all the UNLV basketball games in the tournament, not being in HD. Baseball is not a fast paced sport, and in fact depends upon its leisurely gait to attract fan interest. Patience and a long attention span, with an eye on the "larger meaning of events" are baseballs requirement of its fans. In sum, it's simply not MACHO enough for most of the Las Vegas sports aficionados. Their loss, and Cox DGAS!

I think it's a close call whether HD has more impact on a baseball game or a football game. HD truly transforms both. I simply won't watch any baseball game that isn't in HD _unless_ it's a game involving my favorite team, and even then, it has to be a good game (like tomorrow's, Felix Hernandez versus Daisuke, which fortunately should be on ESPN2HD).

It's kind of amusing that DirecTV, which has really been horrible for the last 2 or 3 years, is still better than Cable in this regard. You'd think that Cable would figure it out.

The one thing though that still has me tearing my hair out is MLB's inability to come up with a reasonable blackout rule. Bud Selig is a true wimp for not putting the hammer down and getting something done the way the NFL has.

Fortunately, though, DirecTV allows me to claim I live in Seattle, that way I can get Seattle Mariners games when they play one of the 4 or 5 teams that claim LV as their home market. Of course, this has had it's issues as well. For example, today I was unable to watch the Mariners game on Channel 95. I guess for some reason they blacked out the Mariners game -- in Seattle (which had no OTA TV alternative).

The people in Las Vegas do NOT get bent out of shape over lack of baseball coverage in any format, let alone in HD. Baseball is just not big in Las Vegas. But let Cox DARE not to carry an NFL game in HD and all hell would break loose. And if you recall there was a big todo over all the UNLV basketball games in the tournament, not being in HD. Baseball is not a fast paced sport, and in fact depends upon its leisurely gait to attract fan interest. Patience and a long attention span, with an eye on the "larger meaning of events" are baseballs requirement of its fans. In sum, it's simply not MACHO enough for most of the Las Vegas sports aficionados. Their loss, and Cox DGAS!

Yep, CCSN won the Junior College National Championship without much fanfare. In this town we love football, racing, golf, and sometimes basketball (but only when we're winning).

Fortunately, though, DirecTV allows me to claim I live in Seattle, that way I can get Seattle Mariners games when they play one of the 4 or 5 teams that claim LV as their home market.

Try 6. Dodgers, Angels, Padres, Diamondbacks, Giants, and A's. Ridiculous.

For example, today I was unable to watch the Mariners game on Channel 95. I guess for some reason they blacked out the Mariners game -- in Seattle (which had no OTA TV alternative).

The games on Channel 95 are part of the EI package. Since you claim Seattle as your home, you will be blacked out of all Mariner games via EI since that package is for "out of market games" only. Plus, they were probably using Boston's feed for the HD game on channel 95. You will only be able to see Mariner games via Fox Sports Northwest.

I live on Tropicana, a mile east of Boulder hwy. Been here for about 1½ yrs. I have cox and my service has been extremely reliable. That being said, I must say that my HD reception is poor. I experience pixellation frequently and last week watching the final rd of the Masters, my audio would completely drop out for 10-15 sec every few minutes. I have had Cox here multiple times, replaced settop box, new connectors, all to no avail. Sometimes I notice that a channel will go "grey" with no audio/video at all. I do power off my system nightly. Is this normal for Cox's HD reception? or is this something I am just going to have to live with?

I live on Tropicana, a mile east of Boulder hwy. Been here for about 1½ yrs. I have cox and my service has been extremely reliable. That being said, I must say that my HD reception is poor. I experience pixellation frequently and last week watching the final rd of the Masters, my audio would completely drop out for 10-15 sec every few minutes. I have had Cox here multiple times, replaced settop box, new connectors, all to no avail. Sometimes I notice that a channel will go "grey" with no audio/video at all. I do power off my system nightly. Is this normal for Cox's HD reception? or is this something I am just going to have to live with?

No, it's not normal or acceptable. It sounds like you may have a signal strength and/or noise issue in your cabling. However, if the pixelization is only on the Las Vegas HD local channels it may be Cox has reception problems on their end.

IIRC, most of Cox's local HD is fed via fiber (I'm 99% sure KLAS and KVBC are fed via fiber). So it sounds like a signal strength issue.

Also, I got a letter from Cox (well, two letters since I have business class internet and residential cable TV). About service being affected for up to two hours next week or the week after that. Anyone else get these letters? Vegggas, you know whats going on with the upgrade?

Memphoman,
The description given is not normal - you could call Cox, or with a some light reading of the first couple of posts of the tips and tricks thread links (all SA STB's have the same basic diags) in my sig, you could self diagnose the problem yourself and ask advice here (or there if it's a DVR).

Doormat,
For the upgrades, remember, the upgrades are done per node as they pull and reroute fiber in the local areas then have to go back and rebalance the system. Last I heard, there were several thousands of nodes being upgraded or deployed in each area of the valley. Letters would be sent to the local areas as they are being upgraded or physically cut over. My letters were sent and upgrades were done late last year. It's a multiyear project, done in stages to bring services as uniformly as possible. The digital phone rollout took over a year to reach all areas of the valley.


With NAB coming to town, I've been slammed. I'll be there gleaning details and most of the week is already booked with meetings, events and presentations during and after hours.
If anything is applicable, I'll post about it.

vegggas

Just wondering what does everyone here use to watch programming, LCDm DLP, Front projection?

Sharp 32" Aquos LCD, Cox SA8300HD, Harman Kardon 7.1 Receiver, JBL Speakers.

Sharp 32" Aquos LCD, Cox SA8300HD, Harman Kardon 7.1 Receiver, JBL Speakers.
How do you like the Aquos? I just helped a friend of mine get the new 52" Aquos from an a/v company here and the picture is just stunning (Cox Cable HD). I am looking for a set now and the amount of choices for 1080p is mind boggling.

For the upgrades, remember, the upgrades are done per node as they pull and reroute fiber in the local areas then have to go back and rebalance the system. Last I heard, there were several thousands of nodes being upgraded or deployed in each area of the valley. Letters would be sent to the local areas as they are being upgraded or physically cut over. My letters were sent and upgrades were done late last year. It's a multiyear project, done in stages to bring services as uniformly as possible. The digital phone rollout took over a year to reach all areas of the valley.
Maybe thats why they changed my static IP last month. Hopefully my new node is faster.

Has anyone who gets KLAS-HD via OTA been having reception spottiness over the last 24 hours or so? I've never noticed wind issues, but I'm getting lot of dropped frames, and wonder if its the wind. I thought maybe it was my equipment but I've pretty much ruled that out.

i have been getting some klas 8-1 spottiness. i have DTV and an outside antenna. in fact, about 3 weeks ago, i stopped getting CW 33-1 altogether, and been having issues with maintaining a strong signal on 8-1.

anyone got similar experience or do i have an antenna/wiring issue? its a brand new house with a dedicated line for OTA from outside. worked flawlessly for 8 months

How do you like the Aquos? I just helped a friend of mine get the new 52" Aquos from an a/v company here and the picture is just stunning (Cox Cable HD). I am looking for a set now and the amount of choices for 1080p is mind boggling.

I did some research here on AVS and finally settled on the Aquos after looking at the Samsung and Sony sets. The HD picture is absolutely amazing! One of the best LCD's I've seen. It's just a 720p set, which for a 32-incher, is fine. With Cox, even the SD channels are now all digital....so it looks pretty good with even SD channels. I'm real happy with it.

i have been getting some klas 8-1 spottiness. i have DTV and an outside antenna. in fact, about 3 weeks ago, i stopped getting CW 33-1 altogether, and been having issues with maintaining a strong signal on 8-1.

anyone got similar experience or do i have an antenna/wiring issue? its a brand new house with a dedicated line for OTA from outside. worked flawlessly for 8 months

mine has been perfect until a few days ago, at most a week. if we are both having the same problem start in the same timeframe, perhaps it is a 8-1 broadcasting issue?

mine has been perfect until a few days ago, at most a week. if we are both having the same problem start in the same timeframe, perhaps it is a 8-1 broadcasting issue?

Maybe, but the analoge looks different too.

No, it's not normal or acceptable. It sounds like you may have a signal strength and/or noise issue in your cabling. However, if the pixelization is only on the Las Vegas HD local channels it may be Cox has reception problems on their end.
I have had Cox come out multiple times and they have had me change my DVR, replaced my connectors and coax and even did something in the pit out on the street. Pixelization is not limited too the network channels, but, predominately there. I see it on nearly all HD channels I do watch.
Had Cox out again 3 days ago, and of course, picture was stellar, and no hits on the diagnostics, so, "can't fix what we can't see". They asked me to keep a log of channels and times...guess I need to learn out to enter diag mode on my DVR and what signals to be concerned with on my SA Explorer 8300HD

I remember back in December I had extreme pixelization and garbled audio on all my tvs. I knew Cox was going throught the analog to digital conversion and I thought mabey it was changed equipment at the node or something. I had a Tech come out and check. He told me I had a bad amplifier (cox installed). So he took it completely out the loop and fed all signals directly through the main splitter. My signal levels took a hit but the pixelization was gone. I still experience occasional drop outs but nothing major. My signal levels are generally anywhere between -8 and -13 with the return around 50. Not ideal but everything working ok for now. They didnt wanted to install a new amp because it would worsen the return path signals and might screw things up worse.

Couple of quick questions

When will the 8300MR be available?
When will the 15meg down and 2meg up cable modem service be available?
When will HD in demand be available
When will any new chanels in hd be available

Thanks