Hey Paul, I am at Buffalo & Summerlin Pkwy and i use the terk 42 and get all OTA channels fine with only some breakup on 22.1 (WB) on my E-86 but is OK in my intergrated tuner. I know from other posts in hardware section this is not the best antenna but works OK for me. My freind at GV parkway & wigwam was ony able to recive NBC & fox with the terk and was hoping that someone in that general area could help.

Help with Explorer 3100HD

Today I got hooked up with Cox's HD package on my Sony 65 in XBR. Since the hd feed goes through the component inputs the zoom/full/normal functions of my TV are fixed. My E86 box had those functions built into it as well. The 3100HD does NOT!!!

What do you guys do when watching something not in HD? Won't those black strips burn in if I watch non HD a lot?

ARG!!! Cox offers many services but this box sucks!

Why does it always come up 2 hours into the future when I bring up the guide? I have to hit a second button to get back to current time. Is there a way to default to current right from the start?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Outflying
Help with Explorer 3100HD

What do you guys do when watching something not in HD? Won't those black strips burn in if I watch non HD a lot?




Connect a cable from "cable out" connection from the 3100HD to one of your antenna connections of your TV. Set that connection to channel 4 and you should be good to go. All channels, except the HD ones, will appear with the grey bars (or whatever color your TV displays) to prevent burn in. Of course, you'll still have to watch HD through the component input. Hope this helps.

On the note about gray bars, I was told by a tech that even the gray can burn in if you watch it enough. Is this true?

Toby

Originally posted by maldoman
On the note about gray bars, I was told by a tech that even the gray can burn in if you watch it enough. Is this true?

Toby

It's probably true. Any static image, if displayed for a long time, will eventually cause burn in. I would guess that, with the grey bars, it would take longer to cause burn in than with the black bars. If not, why have the grey bars at all? As long as you're not watching 4:3 exclusively, there shouldn't be any cause for alarm.

Thanks bruin95!

My understanding is that, if you watch a significant amount of 4:3 on your widescreen, the grey bars allow the screen to burn in more evenly. Black bars would allow no burn in in those areas, and eventually the difference would be noticeable.

Does anyone know if the NFL Channel will be available on Cox?

Also, it is my understanding that the NFL channel will be broadcasting certain segments in HD. SO, if Cox does have the channel, will they be able to dedicate an HD channel to it????

I'm pretty sure D*tv has an exclusive contract on the NFL season ticket. That's why I was reluctant to switch over for so long. I just dislike d so much that I couldn't pay for both anymore.

BUMMER!

I am so glad my friend has D*, so that I can watch football on Sundays.

I have Cox and am pretty pleased so far.

I just go down to the sports bar, they seem to have it on (not HD but oh well).

The monday night ABC game was HD this week right? I flipped it on for a few seconds and it looked good.

Unfortunately, not many sports bars show my Chargers. I am left to NFL Ticket!

Yeah, I think it took local TV a few minutes to switch on the HD? I have noticed that the local channels sometimes forget to switch on the HD. But yeah, the little bit of the game I saw looks really good. It is very nice that ABC and ESPN will be showing all of their games in HD. In fact, tomorrow's game is in HD!

Bump. Not much is going on in Vegas....

Any news on PVR? Vegggas?

Been gone a while...

DVR - No news - Still awaiting liscensing and contracting disputes to be settled so everyone can release a DVR.

NFL - I heard talk of an NFL channel coming somewhere on this forum. Not Sunday ticket, but a dedicated channel, with some possible HD. Should be available after launch, whenever that happens.
Tennis channel will be here too.

Had a chance to A/B compare the ESPN feeds between D* and COX (took my box to a neighbors house). Our opinion, was that D* was having a lot of PQ issues. Not just on that one channel, but most of them. He's re-evaluating his system PQ now that he's been able to see a difference on premium but none on locals.

SA 3100HD box - Most, if not all, the next gen boxes are aspect and resolution controllable. I think December is the mandated date that operators have to provide a choice (either for lease or consumer sale) to provide firewire out if requested. Meaning that if you want the basic HD box, 3100 is available for lease. If you want extra features, you can choose to buy it at CCity or BBuy.
For now, I use the s-video out through HTPC and both Digital and Analog audio autoswitching through the Yamaha reciever. BTW, the newer boxes will provide digital audio on all channels for those of you without autoswitching capabilities.

HD Channels - Currently unable to discuss due to NDA with hotel relations and open contracts. That said, September looks like a good month. They (COX) are removing more analog channels Sept 1st. Goodbye Analog PPV. Grapevine rumors suggest all premium analog will be gone before end of year, freeing up bandwith and making the network much more secure.


veggggas

Hey Vegggas. Thanks for the info.

With the channel changes coming September 1st, any hint on new regular SD channels being added to the Cox lineup?

I know that the tennis channel has been announced for release soon. All others are speculation until they show up in the program guide.

No one will confirm what else is coming. I still think there is some chance of other channel launches, either Sept 1st or soon after. There has to be a good reason to free up those analog channels. I can think of a few channels launching in that time frame, but I've heard nothing on confirmation of any of those.

vegggas

If anyone is interested, here is a link showing the pending launch on channel 333 here in Vegas.
tennis channel launch (http://www.uspta.com/screenprint.cfm?newsletterid=362)

vegggas

Wow...This thread was getting lost in the very back...

Any new updates anyone?

Toby

i have my fingers crossed for something new in hd from cox this month.

I would like to see HDnet. I know they are negotiating with Cox and now that they are on Comcast cable, I know they are no longer exclusively D!. It would be nice to have a "variety" HD channel.

Still no confirmation on HD channels - It's still wait and see...

SD channels:
Tennis Channels is up and running on ch 333 as of this morning.
High probability of more new channels before the end of the year. Here is the probable list:
Boomerang - cartoons (http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/boomerang/)
EWTN - Eternal World Television (http://www.ewtn.com/)
TVG - Horse racing and events (http://www.tvgnetwork.com/iefive/default.asp)
ACN -Americas Collectible Channel (http://www.acntv.com/)
G4tv -TV for Gamers (http://www.g4tv.com/html/home.asp)
MTV2 - What MTV was like 20 years ago when it had music (http://www.mtv.com/onair/mtv2/)
Noggin - TV that teaches kids (http://www.noggin.com/)
Nicktoons
Nick Gas
MTV Hits
VH1 Classic
VH1 Megahits
VH1 Country
etc, etc.

vegggas

Almost forgot:
It looks very promising that there will be a complete digital lineup before the end of the year. Analog will also be available, but duplicated in digital too. This eats up a lot of bandwidth, so hopefully it will be worth it,

vegggas

I know I sound like a broken record, but any word on the PVRs?

Since about 3:30 give or take when storm came through, channels 13.1 & 13.2 have been down. Hope they are back up in time for football.

What perfect timing!!!! There are going to be ALOT of pissed off people tonight!!

Five minutes until kick-off, still no signal. Don't you just love it!!!

6:27 and still NO HIGH DEF!

13.1 & 13.2 are both down. Not just NO HIGH DEF, but no DIGITAL at all!
My signal meter has No signal level showing on either channel
Do you think they got hit by lightning???

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas

Do you think they got hit by lightning???

vegggas

Hope not. If that's the case, we're going to miss a whole lot more than one football game!!

Originally posted by Tallen234
I know I sound like a broken record, but any word on the PVRs?
I heard that the CSR's are supposed to say something about Vegas getting PVR's soon. At least whenever someone asks about the Dish deals and their new PVR's.
The East coast is now heavily testing the SD PVR's with mixed results. Some have glowing reports and others are disgusted in the service. It seems to follow the system and software that's being used. It looks like the SA software is not that great right now, but I think Vegas is capable of running both the SA and Pioneer software, so there is some hope. In all cases, a lot of bugs are being worked out. AFAIK, the SD PVR's are also HD PVR capable with a firmware upgrade, once the legalities are worked out.
TD Washington! - sorry, distracted watching the game... in Analog :(

Uummm, more to come as I find out.

vegggas

I'm not getting any digital signals from CBS either... No HD footbal, no HD CSI!
" The world is going mad, I tell ya"

vegggas

The last thing they said on the ch 13 news right before the game was that they werent transmitting HD because of the weather that hit the henderson area..

5 minutes after I post, ch 13 runs a scroller saying the HD feed is back up.. .

not working for me!

By the limited number of posts about this situation, I guess no one was really interested in this game. I thought there would be a hundred posts of people complaining about no signal.

The scrolling message on the analog channel said it was a power outage, but it had been restored before the game was over. I was over at my parents house so I couldn't see if it was actully back on or not. Also is there any word on when NBC or WB is going to start broadcasting HDTV.

I was watching the game when the HD feed came back up. My father-in-law was over, and when I switched to the HD feed, he couldn't believe the difference. He said that he'd been debating on getting a new truck, but a new TV would now have to come first.;)

By the limited number of posts about this situation, I guess no one was really interested in this game. I thought there would be a hundred posts of people complaining about no signal.

I'm sure that there were many people interested in the hi-def version of the game. But once you log on and see that others have already posted the problem; what's the point of adding more similiar posts?

I for one would hate having to read a hundred different posts saying, "Wow...this sucks! The HD feed on KTNV is down!"

;)

Originally posted by bruin95
By the limited number of posts about this situation, I guess no one was really interested in this game. I thought there would be a hundred posts of people complaining about no signal.


Out of the 5000 or so cable HD customers (last official count was approx 5000) and several hundred (probably thousands) of SAT/OTA HD consumers here in Vegas, there are only about a 39 or so members of this forum ( yeah, I counted). Of those, only about half of them keep up with this thread. Some of those others are one-offs or became members just to ask a single question.

That is a very small ratio of viewers vs people who post on this forum.

I've tried to get others to join, but many say it's just to elitist or technical for them to bother with it.

Oh well. Here's to the [ 20 ] local, loyal members we have here!


vegggas

Just got an email about one of the next channels to be announced, and it has an HDTV clause!

Here is the release info that we will be getting over the next few weeks in our cable bills. There should be a flyer in the envelope of your bill.



NBA TV is coming October 28, 2003 to Cox Digital Cable channel 319! NBA TV is your ultimate destination for all things basketball, featuring four live NBA games every week plus playoffs, behind-the-scenes access, live high-definition (HDTV) game broadcasts, new original programming and enough highlights and news to quench even the most avid fan's hoops thirst.

In addition to all the great programming NBA TV provides it is also a great compliment to the extensive NBA coverage the NBA League Pass offers. It provides games and programs otherwise not available through the NBA League Pass or cable sports networks.



I was also told that the HDTV games will be shown on the same channel. I don't fully understand how, unless they do some remapping for the HD boxes, but that poses other problems. I don't know if that means I won't be able to watch the SD version of an HD game or not. This would suck if the audio was bad or the HD feed didn't suit me and I wanted to watch the SD version. Worse yet, automatically switching to HD would "currently" prevent me from recording games while I'm away. hmmm...

Anyway, it is supposed to go live October 4th as a preview on the "Sports and Information" tier. Looks like that "tier" is already available to a lot of customers except those on the digital gateway only package. The official launch date is Oct 28th. After that, it's only availabe to tier customers.

Local Digital Pricing (http://www.cox.com/LasVegas/DigitalTV/Pricing.asp)

vegggas

from http://www.nba.com/schedules/schedule_030729.html
NBA TV will televise 96 regular-season games during its four-nights-a-week schedule, and projects at least 50 of those games will be televised in High Definition.


Sounds like about 2 live games a week in HD!

Here is the AVSForum thread about NBATV in General
NBATV thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2619727#post2619727)

Also some more news about HD service.
From http://www.nba.com/nba_tv/ (http://www.nba.com/nba_tv/)
NBA TV is now in HD seven days a week. Viewers with HD capability can experience NBA TV's daily lineup, which includes: NBA games, original programming and highlights, and some of the greatest games in NBA history. Daily HD programming airs 4-6 pm ET weekdays and 10 am-12 pm ET on weekends. NBA TV's daily HD lineup is available on channel 198 for DIRECTV customers and on channel 9425 for DISH Network customers.
Curious to see what we have here...

vegggas

Has anyone (especially our resident Cox Cable info specialist, Vegggas);) heard of Cox providing IN Demand's HD channel that is supposed to launch September 15th? I currently subscribe to the MLB package and was quite curious about Cox's status on this.

It's still a crap shoot until the day it launches. The guys doing the HD stuff are very quiet about such things and NEVER announce what's going on. During a conversation with the "big man" at COX earlier this year, I was told as channels become available, we should see them "appear". Also, that there were a lot of "open" contracts that prevent announcements from being made.
All carriage info is based on corporate agreements and INHD is already an agreed partner, so it SHOULD be here on launch day. I don't know why we are not seeing the current preview, unless it has something to do with the rebuilding of the lineup and addition of all the other channels.
I only got the announcment about NBATV, because it was a done deal and flyers were printed to go out in the mail. Aside from that, all I heard before was that it was coming eventually.
Local policy seems to be wait and see...

vegggas

Thanks for the info. :)

Originally posted by vegggas
<snipped> Of those, only about half of them keep up with this thread. Some of those others are one-offs or became members just to ask a single question.

Oh well. Here's to the [ 20 ] local, loyal members we have here!

vegggas

I am one of the occasional (okay... rare) posters in this thread. But... I do read all the content. :cool: I don't use COX for my TV viewing, and since most of this thread is about COX HD.... I have no comment. I enjoy OTA HD, and being able to time shift HD content is very important to me. (My Mitz HDTV has built in HD tuner, firewire connected to my Mitz D-VHS) I use DirecTV for my SD viewing, with a DirecTivo. The HD DirecTV PVR's are supposed to be out in Q1-2004. Then I'll be able to time shift DirecTV HD and SD, as well as OTA HD, all onto one PVR. :D

If COX currently offered a way to time shift HD content, I'd consider switching. But since I can receive and time shift the locals with my existing hardware, it would have to be an awfully good package to make me switch. :D

No insults implied :)
I was just explaining that out of the thousands of HD viewers (either COX, SAT, or OTA only) here in Vegas there are only a fractionally small amount of members. I know there are over 5000 cable users and if sat holds a 20% market share, there should be another 1000 of those here too. Add in the OTA only people and we know there has to be at least 6000 users. Sadly, only 40 unique local members were counted on this thread, and some of them were from California or other parts of the country just in town for a short time, or visiting.
When the comment was made about wondering why there were not hundreds of postings, it's basically because not many local viewers are members.
Also, for the record, this thread has seemed to turn into a COX thread, but still is for all Las Vegas HD. We are lucky enough here to have a great cable HD system that is considered one (if not the best) of the top HD providers in the country and was even chosen as the HD model for all other cable systems by the FCC.
As for time shifting, all of the hardware is ready. Everyone is awaiting copyright decisions to be made regarding Pay TV services. Once finalized, expect to see dozens of products appear simultaneously, with cable lagging about two weeks because of local distribution and software deployment that's needed to operate the DVR with the IPG.

vegggas
edited for spelling

No Fox 5 KVVU OTA Widescreen!, for St. Louis @ New York G.
When I check thru satellite its there. Very impressive picture.
I called the news dept. 436-5700. (435-5555 Bs. hours).
The female answering was very rude! and continued to downgrade
me knowledge.
Is Cox getting it right?
Could we please start a campaign of calls. We should't be getting
the short end of somebody not informed or caring about the
quality of their work.

Fox does not do HD locally.
Local FOX does not supply COX with any digital signal, only analog so there is no digital carriage.
Fox on cable is standard analog 4x3 material.

vegggas
-----
edit: Other fox stations are having widescreen problems too. It may be an incorrect flag and the station needs to do something. Others have had success. Try again and escalate if you get no response, assuming fox does do widescreen here.

v
-----
edit again: Second game is also sd 4x3. Called the number and asked about it too. They (probably the same woman) said they are unable to do widescreen and FOX controls it. Using Samsung T150, I only get SD 4x3 flag and can't change to widescreen.
That was fun... Anybody else want to call?
v

Originally posted by vegggas
No insults implied :)

vegggas

None taken. :D I agree that COX has an outstanding HD program here in Vegas. If I hadn't spent a ton of money on DirecTV hardware while living in CA.... I might be on COX now. :rolleyes:

Hopefully more local network affiliates will start sending an HD signal soon. I got spoiled living in Orange County with ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, & WB all having HD OTA broadcasts. Luckily most of my favorite HD prime time shows are on CBS. :)

Any word on when NBC is going to be HD? They have got to be close now.

Or Fox?

Or WB?

I thought the local ABC affiliate was not able to pass DD 5.1, and instead had a DD2.0 signal, so I never thought about it much when the DIGITAL light came on. Tonights game sounded pretty good, so I turned of off all DSP modes and went straight DD. I then turned off the main and center speakers and I definately heard separated stereo stadium surround from the rears. I could hear the one guy keep coughing in the rear right and an easily identifiable clap in the rear left.

How long have we had DD5.1 on ABC???

vegggas

They have had it all along. It was CBS that can't pass DD5.1.

Ahhh, Thanks.
I usually leave the receiver in an enhanced DSP mode, and hadn't bothered to change it much, except for movies (laziness left that to chance too). Also, I don't watch ABC that much, so I couldn't remember. I've never really cared about DD for locals, but it does sound good when you can take out the announcers.

BTW - I've heard no info at all about any more locals going HD. Maybe NBC is awaiting next years budget?

vegggas

For what it's worth, I contacted the local NBC affiliate via e-mail this past January and got this response from Mr. Paul Heine:

No timetable has been established yet. Our first objective is to meet FCC
timelines that require that we provide an ATSC signal on Channel 2. At
first, that will be in standard definition. We are pricing out other
options of getting a high-definition and greater than two channel sound to
our audience. Please understand that this process involves switching two
entirely different audio and video streams simultaneously in our control
room, then getting an HDTV signal to at least one remote location. Ballpark
estimates are in the half-million dollar range.

Hope this helps.

lionsfan, I don't have one (or any HD stuff at all yet,), but I've read good things about the Zenith ZHDTV1 indoor antenna. Supposed to be way better than the terk. Price is about $25. Perhaps if your friend buys one, you could let us know if it works any better tahn his present setup?


----------------------------
Need help with OTA antenna, friend just purchased a sony hd200 directv unit. He is located near G.V pkwy and wigwam. What type of OTA antenna will work in this area. He tried a terk 42 and could only get 2 OTA channels.
------------------------------

Originally posted by Benzman
lionsfan, I don't have one (or any HD stuff at all yet,), but I've read good things about the Zenith ZHDTV1 indoor antenna. Supposed to be way better than the terk. Price is about $25. Perhaps if your friend buys one, you could let us know if it works any better tahn his present setup?


----------------------------
Need help with OTA antenna, friend just purchased a sony hd200 directv unit. He is located near G.V pkwy and wigwam. What type of OTA antenna will work in this area. He tried a terk 42 and could only get 2 OTA channels.
------------------------------

Which two OTA channels. If it's CBS and ABC you might be blocked by the mountain. Can you see both sets of antennas on the mountain.

Benzman & lvthunder, made that post a while back. At the time he could only get fox & NBC OTA. He took the terk back and bought an RCA non amplied indoor antenna and was able to get all OTA channels. Guess he was to close for an amplified antenna. He has to tweek it once in a while but gets overall good siginal.

INHD update:
It doesn't look good for the Sept 15th INHD launch. I'm hearing that corpoarate COX should have it soon, but it hasn't been finalized yet. Locally, there's a lot of channel re-mapping and adjusting going on that will set back the launch date here to possibly Nov or even Dec. I'm dissapointed about this as it's becoming a grreat HD sports venue.

DVR Update:
All indications point to a valley wide launch date before the end of the year (three months). The equipment should be the Scientific Atlanta 8000 DVRs. No mention of pricing or restrictions. Unfortunately, no mention of HD either, but that could be an oversite. I will have to scour the forum and websites to see if the 8000 is as HD compatible as once thought to be.

Full Digital lineup: Seems this could be the reason for doing a massive channel lineup and remapping of digital boxes. I think they want to get this out asap so that there will be a full digital lineup available for digital customers. Duplicating all the analog to digital takes up a lot of space to do it right, and things have to be juggled around to accomodate the signals. Good news is that it will all be delivered digiatally without ingress issues. Bad news is that they can't get rid of the analog signals until the original signal providers say it's ok to remove the analog feeds. Most contracts won't expire for a long time and they won't be able to reclaim that used/wasted space. Also, broadcasters know that their analog signals can reach more households than digital, and may drag their feet letting COX retransmit digitally.

NBATV: Official preview is OCT 4th and launch Oct 28th

BravoHD, StarzHD, CinemaxHD: No contracts available. Apparantly nobody has been able to sign a contracts yet, and all other work is not going to wait for those contracts. For now, it's a "wait and see what happens" situation. Once these are actually available, we might hear something.

Local NBCHD: Still not in the budget for upgrades, so we get to miss all the new fall shows in HD. They can no longer use the excuse of not having enough content like they did last year. HOPEFULLY, their 2004 budget will allow for the upgrades. Once purchased, expect a few months to get it online. If I were to guess, I would say March would be the earliest we might see anything from this network, although I would love to be wrong.

Other locals: Yeah right - no money this year, or it would have been done already. See above comments about NBCHD.

vegggas

Thanks for the update Vegggas. It is appreciated.


Any word on HDnet? I know that Mr. Cuban is now negotiating with Cox about carrying his HD channels.

I am crossing by fingers on HD PVR.

Also, who can we contact at NBC? It is unbelievable that CBS and ABC can afford to switch, but NBC can't....

I'm thinking that analog channels wont go away until the whole plug-and-pray digital cable tv system is in place... 2006/7. But it would be wild to see how many channels Cox could provide with a pure digital lineup... 60 analog channels is like 600 SDTV channels, or 120 HD channels.

From what I understand the analog bandwidth is already sold for 2007. So the migration should begin sooner that later. Exciting times ahead. Sit back, relax, enjoy!

Eddie

I think the analog bandwidth that you are referring to as having been sold is the bandwidth that is being used for OTA VHF/UHF transmissions. I don't think that has anything to do with what doormat was talking about, which is the bandwidth currently being used for analog cable tv. Once cox can force every cable subscriber to have a digital cable box, they can eliminate all the analog channels which would free up a ton of bandwidth for whatever they decide to use it for.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Not wrong, but it's worse than that. The providers on the analog channels have to also give permission to be broadcast in a digital format. The way contracts have been made is that they are negotiated for a fee to hit X% amount of households. If those household viewers drop because they are being transmitted digitally, providers will not allow it until contracts are renegotiated. As long as viewers have analog TV's and do not want an STB, they have to keep a lot of wasted bandwidth to ensure analog coverage.

vegggas

I'm figuring the first ones to go digital are the low viewership channels. Knock off the 10 least viewed, non-required channels (ie CSPAN, UNLV's channel, etc), non-revenue generating channels (QVC, HSN -- they pay Cox to carry them) per year for the next 3 years. You'll be left with ESPN, Disney, MTV, etc in analog, say 30-40 channels, and the rest digital.

OTA question. Is NBC-DT using low power or what. I live in Meadview, AZ, about 75 miles east of LV. I am getting PBS, ABC, CBS, and Fox in good shape but NBC is a mess. It was a real pleasure to watch to Cowboys last night in HD. The big antenna was worth the effort.

Gary

I have a lot of problems picking up NBC-dt OTA too, and I live here! I think they are still low power while work is being done in the area. Hopefully others that rely mainly on antenna feeds will chime in with some advice. Currently, I use the equivelent of a coat hanger (2ft wire) for OTA reception, when needed for testing OTA signals.

Just curious, are you able to pull in any of the other Vegas digital stations? Like:
KINC-DT 16 UNIvision
KVWB-DT 22 WB
KFBT-DT 29 INDependent
KBLR-DT 40 TELemundo

vegggas

Although I know that INHD is being delayed here in Vegas, I noticed this bit of interesting info.
Llink to press release (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?epi-content=GENERIC&newsId=20030915005911&%20headlineSearchConfigBO=1063659600000%2010636741830<br%20/>00%20%20groupByDate%20%201%20-%204%201063659600000%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20100015<br%20/>1%20false%20true%20&newsLang=en&beanID=478837757&viewID=news_view) This shows that COX is one of the signed MSO's alowed to show INHD according to the contracts, but looking at their webpage located here at inhd.com (http://www.inhd.com/) the companies listed at the bottom do not show COX as an MSO currently showing the channel.
Hmmm... I also have not read of ANY COX MSO's getting the channel yet. I guess this could be more of a corporate issue then once thought. I was under the impression that locally there were channel lineup changes that would affect the launch date, but this is making me wonder if it is more widespread.
Hopefully we will not have to wait too long... At least NBATV is less than three weeks away. I wonder if they will co-launch the channels?

vegggas

vegggas

Thanks for the info. I hope they get going. The wife if bugging me because she wants to watch her soaps in HD LOL.

No luck on any of the UHF channels.

Gary

vegggas

I get NBC-DT over the air, I use a terk 42 antenna mounted on my sat dish, NBC-DT comes in clear as a bell. I am located at Buffalo & Washington near Summerlin.

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by applejackaz
vegggas

Thanks for the info. I hope they get going. The wife if bugging me because she wants to watch her soaps in HD LOL.

No luck on any of the UHF channels.

Gary
I hope you were kidding about the HD soaps, cause only CBS does that, and they're not half bad... NBC Vegas is Not HD, nor even any kind of upconvert, just a digital transmission of the analog signal. Have you tried the analog signal for comparison?
On a side note, If my old memory serves me right, channel 2, being the lowest broadcast frequency, will also have the shortest range for the same power output in VHF systems, thus having a smaller coverage area than a similar powered system on channel 13. Just a guess, but it could be plausible???
Good luck and let us know of any changes, but it sounds like no HD until the middle of next year.

vegggas

Looks like those SA8000 DVR's are starting to look really good once they start multicasting.

Link to 8000DVR multiple viewing post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2695666#post2695666)

One DVR, four independently controlled outlets. Lets hope we see this feature soon.
Puts my Replays to shame!

vegggas

:D

I sent another email to KVBC yesterday asking about HD. I figured if they got enough of us writing them, it may help to get HD quicker.

I actually got an email back today saying that HD equipment was ordered and they would be up in 90-120 days! HD by Christmas would be a nice present.

Wow. That looks great. However, right now I would be happy with a single 8000HD.

Vegggas, do you know if they are beta testing the 8000 or 8000HD in town?


Originally posted by vegggas
Looks like those SA8000 DVR's are starting to look really good once they start multicasting.

Link to 8000DVR multiple viewing post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2695666#post2695666)

One DVR, four independently controlled outlets. Lets hope we see this feature soon.
Puts my Replays to shame!

vegggas

Lets keep our fingers crossed for the HD equipment at KVBC! We should be able to get a confirmation soon.

If you would be happy with a single 8000HD, then that's all you would need. The one DVR will be able to send content to all other digital boxes in the house. It should work with all the 2000 and 3000 and other series of boxes as clients in a client/server configuration.

I think there may be a new shipment of various boxes from SA coming before the end of the month. Since it has been in testing on the east coast as an SD product for several months, testing may not take long. There is still no word on wether it will be the HD version, SD version or the hybrid SD awaiting a firmware upgrade to HD version.
Once I hear something conclusive (even inconclusive rumors!), I will post it here as always.

vegggas

I also received a criptic email from Paul Heine. He said that although they still do not have the equipment, "it is always darkest before the dawn". He said that was all he was permitted to say. SO a little more in the rumor mill

Any idea on how much an "8000HD" would cost us?
-jb

Paul at KVBC is not confirming anything. I'm sure when he is able to tell us something he will post here as he has done in the past. It will come to be in HD eventually.

I have no idea what the pricing on the DVR units will be. I don't think a guess at this point would be accurate. Pricing is completely different from market to market. Some markets are paying $5 to lease an HD converter, some are paying $500 to purchase it. We currently pay $9.95 for the lease of the 3100, which is higher than industry average, but have not been forced to buy anything else. I keep hearing of a lot of changes are coming before the end of the year, and one of those changes was a purchase model scenario. I have not heard of any market selling DVRs, but it is still a relatively new product.

vegggas

Ok, folks! I just spoke with the FCC attorney (I'm not kidding) and I've been authorized to tell you.

KVBC has just placed an order for a full power ATSC transmitter, a high-def capable studio/transmitter link, and high-definition switchers. We expect delivery of the equipment within the next 2 months, and should be transmitting NBC network programming in high definition both over the air and through Cox cable some time after that.

I knew about the purchase agreement early this week, but was not at liberty to discuss it.

Since I also deal with ratings, this comes as good and bad news to KVBC. You see, when Nielsen contacts homes to see if they are willing to take part in household overnight metering, having ATSC-capable televisions or PVR's excludes you from participation. We know that the kind of people who are on the cutting edge of entertainment technology also tend to be heavy viewers of NBC news and primetime programming, so we end up losing some viewers from Nielsen's ratings.

But, selfishly, I'll be glad not to have to hang my head when a fellow TV geek asks me why we aren't HD.

Hey, how do *I* get a 8000DVR? <grin>

Thanks for your patience, folks!

Oh, by the way, if you happen to see a copy of this week's "Television Week" Magazine (it's the television biz trade mag), look on page 8 for my statements/opinions about HD, cable, and DBS. It's website is www.tvweek.com, but I've not found the article or photo on the site.

Thanks for the update. This finally puts the speculation behind us about when it was finally coming. Sorry you've had to answer so many emails with vague answers, but it's out in the open now... We understand.

Ok, I'll go first - Will the station put out a 5.1 signal when it starts airing?:D

As for the Neilson ratings, if they don't change their policy soon, they may not have any business in the next few years. Going to an ATSC broadcast should not affect the station, since it depends on the end user having the equipment. With that, your local ratings should not change much as current rating housholds should not have a digital TV anyway.

If you want a DVR, you're gonna have to wait like the rest of us... I want one too.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas


Ok, I'll go first - Will the station put out a 5.1 signal when it starts airing?:D



I don't know. Dolby encoders and decoders are not cheap. And passing 6 signals via microwave from north of downtown to Black Mountain isn't easy.

I've even suggested that we not only offer 5.1 sound on ATSC signals OTA and through Cox HD, but also on Channel 123 for those homes with digital cable and surround sound systems but no HD.

Believe me, I'll plead our case. But let's just be grateful for this victory for now, ok?

Paul

This is great news! Thank you very much.

jb

It looks like there will be a cable box upgrade Monday night / Tuesday morning at around 2:00 AM that will interrupt viewing for a few minutes and then turn off the box.
Just a few of the many things getting changed are:

IPG - Now will display current time and channel. The "C" button will still take you to current time and channel as you surf through listings.
IPG should also work with HD channels after upgrade - Hopefully this means that descriptions will overlay on top of HD content and HD will be shown in window with IPG.

Gray sidbars- No more Black sidbars for the HD boxes for 4x3 material. This will help reduce screen burn in.

DTV Closed captioning - Digital Captions support for local HD through the box.

Audio dropouts - Should be fixed with this upgrade. Old fix was to change channels to resync digital audio - Hopefully this will be gone.

If you are scheduling any recordings through a box, make sure you turn it back on after the upgrade. The default state is off after an upgrade and reboot. The upgrade should take 5-10 minutes for most boxes, and as long as 30 minutes for the really old 2000 series boxes.


vegggas

About time they fixed the guide thing. Echostar prevailed against Gemstar's patent regarding IPGs over a year ago, I was wondering why Cox hadn't adjusted their code to start up on the right time/channel.

Looks like they only fixed the time issue. I still have black sidebars, and I can't see HD content through the Guide.


Originally posted by vegggas
It looks like there will be a cable box upgrade Monday night / Tuesday morning at around 2:00 AM that will interrupt viewing for a few minutes and then turn off the box.
Just a few of the many things getting changed are:

IPG - Now will display current time and channel. The "C" button will still take you to current time and channel as you surf through listings.
IPG should also work with HD channels after upgrade - Hopefully this means that descriptions will overlay on top of HD content and HD will be shown in window with IPG.

Gray sidbars- No more Black sidbars for the HD boxes for 4x3 material. This will help reduce screen burn in.

DTV Closed captioning - Digital Captions support for local HD through the box.

Audio dropouts - Should be fixed with this upgrade. Old fix was to change channels to resync digital audio - Hopefully this will be gone.

If you are scheduling any recordings through a box, make sure you turn it back on after the upgrade. The default state is off after an upgrade and reboot. The upgrade should take 5-10 minutes for most boxes, and as long as 30 minutes for the really old 2000 series boxes.


vegggas

OK, OK.
Maybe I got some bad info about the black bars to gray bars. I'll have to ask the guy when I see him again, but I swear that was one of the top things on the list.
IPG should also work with HD channels after upgrade - Hopefully this means that descriptions will overlay on top of HD content and HD will be shown in window with IPG.
I also misinterpreted the guide over HD. It appears it was meant to be the little info box that stays in the upper right corner while in the IPG or banner. I thought that was pushing the technology in the box, because the graphics overlay will not do HD resolutions, but I was, as I quoted above, "Hopeful".
Everything else appears to be working. I havn't heard any audio droputs, and the channel change seems much more responsive. I think there were about 30 things adjusted, changed and overall fixed, but most were minor issues, that only a small handfull would notice. Also there were a lot of changes to the setup choices.

The big question is... Did it break anything???

vegggas

For the people without the digital gateway the guide button does nothing now. In the past it would bring up the guide but would just say something like not available in place of what was on the channel. Don't quote me on what it said becaus e I don't remember. It's not too hard to remember three channels.

Well, I'm looking at the side bars again, and they are gray. They are not very bright or distracting, but they definitely are not black anymore. I may have overlooked this earlier in my haste, but they are inserted by the STB. I checked them out with the brightness up a bit and it was done for the upgrade, it's just hard to notice with a calibrated set or one with brightness lowered.
A good test for me was letterboxed content in a 4x3 window. The black bars in the 4x3 signal are black and the nonfilled side bars are gray.

Tallen234 - What about you, have you rechecked?

lvthunder - Are you just getting the locals now? What is your pricing structure like? Do you just pay for the converter and "basic" service?

vegggas

I can't really tell a difference. It still looks black to me. I tried turning up the brightness and I still think it is still black.


Are any of you guys still hitting "C" when you pull up the guide??? It may take me a while to get out of that habit.

Actually, I am watching West Wing right now (it's letterboxed) and the top bars look much blacker than the side bars. Perhaps its my imagination, but the bars may be a bit lighter. They are certainly not black. Not sure if they were "black" before. Who knows?

The digital stations are supposed to show the gray bars, but it looks like the analog channels can get "stuck" showing black.
If you go from a 16x9 HD signal, like DiscHD (700) to an analog 4x3 station, like regular Discovery (25), the bars will be BLACK. If I punch in a digital station, like HBO (200), the gray bars appear, then when I use last channel back to Discovery (25), the bars are now gray.
Interestingly, the program right now on Discovery is Mythbusters and is letterboxed, so you can really see the difference between the black and gray when comparing to the original top and bottom "black" bars. The top and bottom appear grayish in comparison to the original black sides, and the same shade then appears black when the sides are gray.
Hmmm...

And yes, I'm still hitting the "C" button. It's like a reflex now:D I almost find it more annoying that I'm the one who is still doing that, compared to the guide working automatically. Gotta stop doing that :D

vegggas

Looks like channel 8 has added a 2nd OTA digital channel 8.2, non HD. It came up a couple of days ago.

Bump.

Anything new to report?

Great game last night...

Which one?

I turned off the Colts/Bucs game when it was 35-14 and 4 minutes to go. Big mistake.


Originally posted by bcoombs
Great game last night...

Nothing new, other than NBATV is on 319. Supposedly, the first HD game is at the end of the month, on the same channel. Still not convinced on how it will work, but it's assumed HD boxes will tune the HD version and SD boxes will see the SD version. That's going to be a problem if you are using anything other than the component outputs, since the box does not downconvert to the composite and s-vdeo outputs. It's still a wait and see, since no one knows yet and the channel is not doing any HD until the season starts.

RUMORS: Lots of stuff floating around. Nothing concrete enough to print yet. With less than 90 days left until the end of the year, there are a lot of new HD channels and HD hardware to be launched BEFORE 2004. Some of those things include the following
SA8000 (HD???) DVR AND a replacement for the SA3100 (SA3250?).
The INHD channels, now launched in the COX Omaha market.
Possibility of additional HD movie and HD cable channels.
Analog to Digital channel lineup.

vegggas

Hi all from the Vegas and Cimmaron area. I haven't taken the HD plunge yet, but come to this forum for your insight occasionaly. I'm still a COX analogue cable subscriber with Expanded Basic service. I may be the last in Vegas to switch to Digital Cox simply because I find very little that I would gain by making that switch, until such time as HD is within my economic reach. Even then OTA reception, especially after the transion period, should not be a great difficulty, leaving be with the impression that Digital Cable is just fluff. I further believe that if COX wanted to speed the transition of their subscribers to Digital, then they would put basic and expanded basic on digital only. But wouldn't that require everyone to have a digital box instead of the cable ready TV? Flame me if you must, but am I missing something?

I have noticed that Cox has quietly added BOOMERANG to the digital cable line-up on Channel 354. I hope that the MTV/Nickelodeon suite of channels gets added soon. I would love to see MTV2 and VH-1 Classic among other things added to the line-up.

Other wishes:

Fox Movie Channel, Trio, Biography, National Geographic, and NASA.

Your absolutely right about Digital Cable except if you want movie channels, Sports subscriptions, PPV, or VOD. You can get most of the HD channels without having digital cable anyways.

I noticed this technical problem with KVBC-TV:

The LR audio is backwards on the analog broadcast thru Cox (maybe on-air, too). On the digital side (Channel 123), the audio is correct. It was easy to hear while watching the NASCAR race on Sunday as the cars were supposed to got from left to right.

I couldn't find a technical contact on KVBC's website, so I am posting here hoping that the message gets relayed to the folks over there.

Also....when is KLAS-TV going to broadcast real stereo on their analog broadcast? The stereo light does light up...but there is definitely no true separation. What's odd is that quite a long time ago, KLAS did broadcast true stereo that sounded almost as good as Fox 5...then it went back to that awful simulated stereo that they are still broadcasting to this day. Anyone got a contact at KLAS??

Demodave,
For new channel additions, most were posted in Sept.
link to earlier post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2617009#post2617009)
SD channels:
Tennis Channels is up and running on ch 333 as of this morning.
High probability of more new channels before the end of the year. Here is the probable list:
Boomerang - cartoons
EWTN - Eternal World Television
TVG - Horse racing and events
ACN -Americas Collectible Channel
G4tv -TV for Gamers
MTV2 - What MTV was like 20 years ago when it had music
Noggin - TV that teaches kids
Nicktoons
Nick Gas
MTV Hits
VH1 Classic
VH1 Megahits
VH1 Country
They are also inserted in your monthly bill.
As for the audio, until they play something that's got some R/L distinct audio details, it's going to be hard to tell. I've never noticed that problem before, but it's possible. You do have your analog wires hooked up correctly, don't you?

RDVegas,
As long as you're not subscribing to HBO or another pay service or sports tier, you may see nothing but "fluff" on digital cable. Without any of the packages, it's just an interactive guide, PPV, music and a few other channels. So if you don't get any extra services, you won't see anything special. Before the end of the year, it has been noted that they will duplicate the entire analog lineup on digital. The ingress issues in the valley wreak havoc on the current analog system and this will ensure a non altered signal to your box. If you are looking for just the HD locals, you should be able to get a rental box and those signal for just the rental price.
BTW: The analog expanded basic package is the most expensive package there is, but it's still compatible with all cable ready TV's and VCRs.

vegggas

As for the audio, until they play something that's got some R/L distinct audio details, it's going to be hard to tell. I've never noticed that problem before, but it's possible. You do have your analog wires hooked up correctly, don't you?

I definitely do have the audio cables hooked up correctly. I am an audio producer who can build a studio and/or home theater system. I get great stereo separation on just about every channel except KLAS Channel 8.

I have heard Letterman on KCBS in LA and the sound is fantastic...lots of L/R separation in the audience and with Paul's band. Here in Vegas.....no separation at all. It is 100% mono.

To Demondave: MTV2 is available in Las Vegas OTA on channel 31.

I can vouch for demodave knowing what he is doing since I have had him do Audio Production for me... (commercials, etc...) If he says there is a problem on the audio, I would believe it.

I am sorry that Cox suscribers are caught in the middle of the current squabble between Cox and ESPN/FOX Hopefully it will get resolved before the contracts are up, but both sides sound pretty unmoveable at this stage. Sports Channels are the only ones that I cannot live without :( , so if Cox goes through with its threat to eliminate them altogether, then I will have no choice but to switch to satellite. I have emailed Cox to put in my 2 cents worth hoping if they get enough emails of people saying they will opt for other providers, then mabey they will bend a bit.

I haven't heard anything about this. But now that they are offering it, that would be suicide to discontinue it. Do you have a link?

The whole issue is sports channels like ESPN cost (cox) tons of money. Cox wants to put them on a different tier so not all subscribers are paying $2.50/mo for ESPN/ESPN2. If cox cut all sports channels, your bill would also go down $7-$10/mo and stay down. You cable bill goes up because ESPN has it written into their carriage contract that their fees go up X% a year regardless. For the people who dont care about ESPN couldnt be happier at the idea of seeing their bill go down $10/mo.

Demodave and friends,
No disrespect, just asking the obvious questions... I consider myself an audio expert and purist as well with 15 years of high end audio experience, but since there isn't much to compare the L/R seperation, it's difficult to determine a problem. Typical programming isn't good enough to determine seperation, until something comes along thats definitive enough to prove otherwise.
I can honestly say that I have no idea what the whole espn, sportsnet issue is; This is the first I've heard of it, other than espn's rate hikes. There should be more sportsnet coverage, but we are in a sports vacuume here in Vegas. Hopefully we will get all the coverage of the western states as a minimal coverage.

vegggas

p.s. I heard the new SA boxes are in at COX now. I'm going to lobby/ask/beg to get a demo/test unit of the 8000 to see what it can do. Maybe next week, I can give a report. If not, I'm trtying for at least a 3250..

v

Vegggas, let me know if you can "finagle" a 8000. I will follow you in a beg and plead.

Anyone here agree with me that ESPN-HD looks horrible?
On my 110" screen (with DWIN TV3) it is horrendous with the stretch feature making it all but unwatchable.

I actually watch espn for non-hd sporting events as well. You can watch regular espn if you dont like espnhd's format. I still think of it as useful for HD events only...otherwise nothing special. They will be doing more hd stuff in the future though.

-jb

Hey Vegggas,

Like I said above...Letterman has some amazing wide stereo sound when broadcasted. It is very obvious.

I did get an e-mail from the CE at KLAS who agreed that there is a problem. But, he says that the problem is with Cox; as the on-air sound quality is fine. I haven't hooked up an antenna to the Sony to check that out though. It's amazing that no one has noticed yet. Maybe no one really cares whether the sound is in mono or stereo??? By the way, another fine example was the broadcast of The Grammy's and The Latin Grammy's. Pure mono.

Switch from KLAS to Fox or even VH-1 and the difference is incredibly obvious

No luck getting any SA boxes to test - I didn't get any responses from my contacts. Unfortunately, my schedule is really tight, and I might not be able to actively test and report on one anyway.
I should be home to catch Dave and I'll try to A/B/C the audio off the Air, Basic, and HD Cable. If I can pinpoint an issue, I'll email the COX tech and/or customer relations on Monday. Usually I watch Leno though...

vegggas

ESPN / Fox Sports: I haven't heard anything about this. But now that they are offering it, that would be suicide to discontinue it. Do you have a link?

USA Today Article (http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20031009/5574570s.htm)

I got some info on the SA8000 DVR launch - It is supposed to go live Nov 11th.
Unfortunately, this is ONLY for SD. The HD version is STILL not ready for release. Still, this should be a great unit. I did not get in on the testing, but reports from other markets vary with each system. Some are great, and others are fair. We will have to wait and see how responsive the boxes are.
I have no specs on the hard drive size (or any other specs yet), but believe them to be 80GB.
Pricing is said to be $9.99 for the service, but only $3.95 for the rental of the box. Considering the fees for TiVo and Replay, this sounds like a reasonable enough price. I was concerned that there would be the obligatory $10 service fee and another $10 rental on top of that.
Self install should be available for no charge, or standard digital installation charge of $30 when it requires a visit.
I have not seen the unit yet, but will try to get a peek in the next few weeks to answer some connectivity questions.

vegggas

edit - added This link to the SA8000 website (http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/Exp8000.htm)

So is the SA 8000 upgradable to HD or would that require an add-on or new unit? Also, are the firewire ports on? It'd be nice if i could hook it up to my mits via firewire.

Don't know... I have not seen one yet, but the link describes most of that stuff as software upgrades, when available of course. The link also mentions the HD launch as "March 2004". The PDF file on SA's website does not show component or DVI outputs, just firewire.
What does everyone think about the price point of $10 a month for service (+ $4 rental)? With Replay and TiVo starting to not offer lifetime subs, is this a reasonable cost, considering you don't have to buy the unit(s)?

vegggas
edit - weblink says HD is available between Dec 03 and Mar 04.
v

$12-15 isnt that bad, TIvo charges $13. The big difference to me (and a few others) is I cant open up the SA 8000 and add another HD for rmore capacity. If it eventually does support HD, 80GB is only 12-13 hours of HD. Thats my biggest issue with it. People have Tivos modded to support 300+ hours of SD TV (50 hrs of HD -- although Tivos cant record HD yet).

SA8000 $9.99 + $3.95 seems reasonable but I will probably drop my Cable Modem service down one tier to keep the total bill about the same. Or, I may have to forgo everything should Cox drop the sports channels. Or , now we might have to pay an additional amount for a dedicated pay sports tier. Oh well, Cox is fast approaching Nevada Power for supreme being as far as utility bills are concerned ;)

Would this box be considered more like a DTiVo or is it more like the SA TiVo? Directv charges $5 for the service (no matter how many you have) and $5 for the mirroring fee. I might consider getting one when it does HD since none of the TiVo line will be able to get the HD locals from Cox.

D*Tivos have dual tuners though, I dont think SA8000s do.

This is from the SA website:

Q. How many channels can I record at one time?

A. You can record 2 channels at one time. While recording 2 live shows, you can play back one pre-recorded show. Press the green remote LIST button any time to display your recordings available for playback.

So I believe that the SA8000 must have two tuners.

Ah, I only saw 1 coax input, I guess its split inside the unit (as opposed to the D*Tivo which has 2 inputs).

Once again, let me mention that, I don't think these are going to be HD capable units. There is no indication that there are any capable outputs other than firewire on these units and SA mentions the HD units are not available until at least December. I think there was a small test run of modified component HD boxes with recording for SD only on the east coast, that would be software upgradeable to record HD via component sometime in the future. These sound like standard production run units for recording SD only.

DirecTiVo similarities are not too likely. SA is not buying the rights to TiVo technology. They are using a completely different look and feel, probably more similar to (but not equal to) RePlay than anything else. I heard of other issues already today - There is no channel skip feature or jump ahead button most of us have become accustomed to.:( We will have to manually use the fast forward button instead. Also, only one hour buffer for live events. No more falling asleep on the couch for three hours and using the rewind button to catch up.

As far as additional storage capacity, it is heavily RUMORED that once the firewire is enabled, it will allow hookup of external drives. That data will still be in it's encrypted and digital form (except for analog). Playback will only be on the authorized unit it was recorded on, or one on the same account with the same services and authorization codes.

The white paper describing the DVR as a home video server to other boxes in the home sounded the most appealing to me. Right now, I have upstairs and downstairs RePlay units. I would like to easily be able to watch half in one area, stop it, and then continue watching in the other area. With or without HD this would be my favorite feature.

vegggas

Hey Vegggas, have you heard any buzz on Cox getting the Pioneer HD PVR's? We might get them before the SA8000HD, if Cox is only going to be using the 8000SD's locally (for now).

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/PrinterFriendly.asp?RelatedID=3815

I actually posted about that back in June- Here is the Pioneer HD DVR thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2311770#post2311770)
If memory serves me right, I also posted on this at This location in the local thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2311788#post2311788)
Not trying to be a smart ass or anything, cause it's still a valid question. Cox Las Vegas uses both Pioneer and SA boxes and the software is compatible for both. I was told a long time ago that "The first company to deliver an HD DVR, will be the one Cox will go with." I saw the mock up of the DVR at CES at the start of the year and the working HD cable box it was based on (even picked up a prelim spec sheet). Both looked excellent in quality, features and usability.
If you are not aware, all companies with HD-DVR's are in a legal holding pattern for a while. The SA8000HD was working as a technically usable product a few months ago at the cable convention and full specs are available. Unfortunately it's still not able to be released for consumer use yet.

vegggas

No, I realize you posted it earlier. I just wanted to see if there was any new news on the Pioneer (as opposed to the SA).

Is the legal battle related to the Open Cable agreement? What is the sticking point?





Originally posted by vegggas
I actually posted about that back in June- Here is the Pioneer HD DVR thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2311770#post2311770)
If memory serves me right, I also posted on this at This location in the local thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2311788#post2311788)
Not trying to be a smart ass or anything, cause it's still a valid question. Cox Las Vegas uses both Pioneer and SA boxes and the software is compatible for both. I was told a long time ago that "The first company to deliver an HD DVR, will be the one Cox will go with." I saw the mock up of the DVR at CES at the start of the year and the working HD cable box it was based on (even picked up a prelim spec sheet). Both looked excellent in quality, features and usability.
If you are not aware, all companies with HD-DVR's are in a legal holding pattern for a while. The SA8000HD was working as a technically usable product a few months ago at the cable convention and full specs are available. Unfortunately it's still not able to be released for consumer use yet.

vegggas

The "Sticking point" and legal issues are over copyright issues and recording rights to non free signals. This is true with all pay TV services and the main reason we have HD DVR's for OTA only and not for Sat or Cable. The technology has been here for quite some time, but manufacturers can't start deploying units until agreements are made. Once done, the software and hardware mods will have to be done before shipping.

vegggas

:mad: If you are as worried about sports programming and the 35% increase in fees that ESPN and FOX are demanding, check out this new site and let your voice be heard. ESPN had a press release about increasing costs and here is your chance to speak out. The alternatives are to put the programming on a seperate expensive tier, or worse yet ESPN would drop carriage rights.

Go here to speak out about price increases (http://www.makethemplayfair.com/)

Direct link to send letter (http://speakout.makethemplayfair.com/playfair/)

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
:mad: If you are as worried about sports programming and the 35% increase in fees that ESPN and FOX are demanding, check out this new site and let your voice be heard. ESPN had a press release about increasing costs and here is your chance to speak out. The alternatives are to put the programming on a seperate expensive tier, or worse yet ESPN would drop carriage rights.

Go here to speak out about price increases (http://www.makethemplayfair.com/)

Direct link to send letter (http://speakout.makethemplayfair.com/playfair/)

vegggas

Speaking of "make them play fair," I think it would be fair to point out that it appears that vegggas is a Cox employee, and this website, which has a Cox copyright notification, is designed to make the general public act in a political manner that might benefit Cox.

(just so you know, I wish Rupert's Boys and Disney would allow Cox to tier sports. Personnally, I wouldn't pay for it. In this matter, I speak for myself, and not as an employee of Sunbelt Communications.)

The Sports price increase was mentioned earlier in this thread. I had the link sent to me along with the news article from the news wire service. I merely cut and pasted the information I got and offered no opinions of my own (you can tell because I did not ramble on for three paragraphs :D).

I was referring to :
Earlier link about sports costs (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2773947#post2773947)
ESPN/FOX sports
I am sorry that Cox suscribers are caught in the middle of the current squabble between Cox and ESPN/FOX Hopefully it will get resolved before the contracts are up, but both sides sound pretty unmoveable at this stage. Sports Channels are the only ones that I cannot live without , so if Cox goes through with its threat to eliminate them altogether, then I will have no choice but to switch to satellite. I have emailed Cox to put in my 2 cents worth hoping if they get enough emails of people saying they will opt for other providers, then mabey they will bend a bit.

I haven't heard anything about this. But now that they are offering it, that would be suicide to discontinue it. Do you have a link?

The whole issue is sports channels like ESPN cost (cox) tons of money. Cox wants to put them on a different tier so not all subscribers are paying $2.50/mo for ESPN/ESPN2. If cox cut all sports channels, your bill would also go down $7-$10/mo and stay down. You cable bill goes up because ESPN has it written into their carriage contract that their fees go up X% a year regardless. For the people who dont care about ESPN couldnt be happier at the idea of seeing their bill go down $10/mo.

I had no comments earlier during the thread because I was unaware of the situation and did not want to rush to judgment. Now that I have more information, I can form my own opinion and pass along the links where I got my information so that those reading can do the same.
I hope that is considered fair. My OPINION is that all of these sports figures make and demand too much money. This, in turn, raises prices for everyone, leaving the end fan or viewer as the one who loses out.

Any news on when KVBC is going HD???

vegggas

This thread is a much better place to air out opinions about ESPN's rate increases (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2836538#post2836538)
It has been discussed on this thread for a while. It appears that most are not happy with the price increase and really do want it on a seperate tier.
Since this directly affects us as viewers (those of us on COX) I thought it should be mentioned so others can find it.

vegggas

Thanks for the info Vegggas. However, given that I tend to live on ESPN and given that my cable bill is now larger than my power bill, a few extra bucks is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.


Also, I will pile on Mr. Heine....when will I get Leno in HD? ;)

Originally posted by Tallen234

Also, I will pile on Mr. Heine....when will I get Leno in HD? ;)

Most likely, before Cox offers HD PVR's. :)

It's nice to have some football games in HD, but I still can't get a steady picture on Ch13 on Monday nite. None of my other HD gives me this problem so I figure its got to be the channel. Is everyone still experiencing this or am I doing something wrong?

The only "problem" that I experience is when the station switches from local to national programming. Otherwise, the games have been excellent.

Originally posted by benspal
It's nice to have some football games in HD, but I still can't get a steady picture on Ch13 on Monday nite. None of my other HD gives me this problem so I figure its got to be the channel. Is everyone still experiencing this or am I doing something wrong?
Not quite sure what to say... If there is a problem, it may be related to the way your receiver decodes and displays the 720p signal. The Mits TVs do not show native 720p signal, so the tuner you use has to convert it to either 1080i, 960i, or 480p, to show a higher res signal. I don't see what your specific tuner is, but try changing some of your output settings to see what happens to the display. There have been some limited reports that a few sat boxes have some issues with the 720p to 1080i conversion. The next thing would be to see if the box handles the format conversion from 720p to stretched commercials. Try this - When you come back from a commercial and are in HD again, turn the box off the channel, and then back again to see if it re-syncs to the 720p signal.

good luck
vegggas

Tonight at 10:00 PM Eastern, 7:00 PM Pacific, there is going to be an HD basketball game between the Cavs and Blazers shown on NBA TV. We have NBA TV on channel 319 here in Vegas. There does NOT appear to be any special events HD channel on the guide and COX has said that the HD games will be shown on the same channel.
Let's hope we get to see the game in HD on COX. I will be home to try to get the game and post if we can get it and what we have to do. If anyone knows for sure what the situation is, please post here.

thanks
vegggas

Vegggas

i've been waiting to see if it will appear in hd as well. i have my fingers crossed. hasn't everything else in hd always been on channels numbered in the 700's? i guess we'll find out in a few minutes...

jb

:mad: :mad: No HD NBA:mad: :mad:
I'm looking at a letterboxed display of the game in a 4x3 window. This blows.
I scoured through the guide and test channels and even rebooted my box and forced a download. It's not here.
I guess I'll sit and wait on the phone to ask COX what's up with this SD stuff...

vegggas

Has anyone else had any problems with channel 13's hd? For almost 2 weeks now I'm not receiving hd on channel 13. BUMMER! Veggas said something about a reboot? How do you do this? Would this help? Is every one else ok on 13's HD? THANKS!

ABC (channel 732 on Cox) did not have their shows in HD last night. I don't know why.

Just got a phone call - Dec 1st is when INHD 1 & 2 are launching along with the price decrease (ummm that's spelled F-R-E-E) for ESPN HD for all digital HD customers here in Las Vegas.

Repeat: INHD 1 & 2 and ESPNHD are going to be FREE for all Digital HD customers, (along with the local HD stations, of course) starting Dec 1st.

It also looks like the NBATV HD deal is only available through INHD. This means the games will be shown on INHD and NBATV with the HD version on INHD and SD on NBATV.

"can you say free boys and girls?" "I knew that you could!"
vegggas

That's what I'm talking about!

Yea, now its time for HD via Cox.

Fantastic Vegggas!!

I've been wonderin' about INHD and it's debut....

thanks Cox cable!

jb

When you say free does that mean free to those who have digital cable, or does it mean free to those who have the digital gateway, or does it mean free for everyone that has an HD box? I bet it's only free for those who have digital cable. Also why is ESPN-HD going to be free and not Discovery? It doesn't make any sense to have all the channels free except one. With exception to the Movie channels.

My speculation is that they are making ESPN free so if it comes down to it they can pull it if the fight with ESPN and Fox Sports turns ugly. Remember one of the options is to have ESPN and Fox Sports be its own tear.

It's good to hear about InHD though.

Also has anyone heard if/when Fox Sports West is going to do HD?

Half-time! 13-17
When you say free does that mean free to those who have digital cable, or does it mean free to those who have the digital gateway, or does it mean free for everyone that has an HD box? I was told it was going to now be part of the HD Tier that's included to all digital HD customers, including those with the gateway. It sounds like you have to have the gateway as a minimum service to get any tier, other than just the locals with a "dead" box.why is ESPN-HD going to be free and not Discovery?Don't know? Maybe if they have to pay for every subscriber anyway, they might as well give it to them??? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer, but I do understand the FREE part:D

vegggas

Has anyone seen the numbers for the ESPN HD subs? Maybe ESPN saw the poor uptake from consumers and lowered the price, and its low enough for cox to put it in the "basic HD" tier.

Good News Vegggas!

One quick question for anyone out there. How do you manually reset a SA3100HD?

Originally posted by Tallen234
Good News Vegggas!

One quick question for anyone out there. How do you manually reset a SA3100HD?

Pull power plug - Press and hold power button while plugging it back in - Let it circle a time or two and release when it shows something like "br." on the screen and starts to repeat.
Done.

What kind of programming will inhd have?

Originally posted by vegashomes
What kind of programming will inhd have?
From Ken's synopsis at The Official AVS HDTV Programming Synopsis – Fall 2003! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164671)
The Press release provided by Ken (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=302199)
And Finally, their website at http://www.inhd.com/
A little bit of everything, so it seems and possibly more. This is also a "special events" channel for "one off" programs and events not carried on other channels as well as a local outlet for HD programming on a regional level.
It now appears that NBA TV is using INHD to show all their HD games, instead of being just a 6 hour a week NBA HD channel. A lot of other stations may follow the same path and show their minimal HD content on these channels too.

vegggas

Slight change of subject...

Any info on when and if the SA3250HD will be available with the DVI connection software active? Presently have the SA3100HD and would want to upgrade the box when available.

Just got my HD set installed and I am looking for more programming. Hope the INHD programming is good for Dec 1.

This info has been available for a while, but I had not seen a post with the specific info yet....so here goes:


What's New From Cox

To accommodate the addition of MTV2 on channel 38 beginning December 1st, the following channels will move to new channel positions: LV One to ch. 19, TLC to ch.33, ABC Family to ch. 74, VH1 to ch. 39 and MTV to ch. 37. Questions? Call 383-4000 or log on to www.cox.com/lasvegas. Cox Communications is happy to announce the addition of 7 new channels to its lineup beginning December 1st. The new channels are MTV2 on ch. 38, Nick Toons on ch. 356, Nick GAS on ch. 357, MTV Hits on ch. 358, VH1 Classic on ch. 359, VH1 Mega Hits on ch. 360, and VH1 Country on ch. 361. Questions? Call 383-4000 or log on to www.cox.com/lasvegas.

Dec 1st i'm looking forward to INHD1 and INHD2! No info on Cox's website about that though.
JB

Someone forwarded me an email about tomorrow's DVR launch and the HD status of the SA8000 unit.
The new Explorer 8000 (DVR unit) is compatible with EOD. Unfortunately, the same is not true for HD. Currently an HD/DVR compatible unit is being developed with testing to occur over the next couple of months. We are hopeful this unit will be available in the first quarter of 2004 and will provide more information in the future on its availability.
Can't figure how to do a poll within a thread - so here goes a lame attempt!

How many will get the SA 8000 DVR:
1) Now - As a way of recording digital content immediately.
2) Later - Only when the HD version comes out and not sooner.
3) Now and Upgrade - Get it now and upgrade to the HD version when it comes out.
4) Now and Later - Get it now AND get the HD version when it comes out.
5) Never - Hell is not cold enough yet!

vegggas

How many will get the SA 8000 DVR:
1) Now - As a way of recording digital content immediately.
2) Later - Only when the HD version comes out and not sooner.
3) Now and Upgrade - Get it now and upgrade to the HD version when it comes out.
4) Now and Later - Get it now AND get the HD version when it comes out.
5) Never - Hell is not cold enough yet!

well, to me its a no-brainer( i dont have hdtv yet)..customer service said the box will cost 9.95/month which is only $6 more than the one I'm using now. Well worth it to me. I'll probably wait a few days though before I decide to waste my day waiting in line to make the switch:cool:

Later. With the new HD tier structure coming in december, HD is more important than PVR right now. To me at least. YMMV.

5) especially if next year Directv can offer HD locals. I think TiVo has the best DVR software of any I've seen.

lvthunder: not likely D* or E* would have HD locals for vegas. Even with all the extra bandwidth from FSS Ku band sats. Their HD Tivo PVR will however have an antenna for OTA HD locals.. is that what you were talkling about?

Originally posted by gvc
well, to me its a no-brainer( i dont have hdtv yet)..customer service said the box will cost 9.95/month which is only $6 more than the one I'm using now. Well worth it to me. I'll probably wait a few days though before I decide to waste my day waiting in line to make the switch:cool:
Careful with that pricing theory! The box rental is the same as the standard digital box rentals at $3.95. The DVR Service is $9.99 to enable the recording and timeshifting services. In your case it appears to be an additional $10/ month.
Later. With the new HD tier structure coming in december, HD is more important than PVR right now. To me at least. YMMV. All things point to more HD for less money:D Two additional channels (InHD) and the ESPNHD charge getting dropped. We can also hope for NBC eventually too. Still no word on any other HD channels, but we can hope.

Personally, I'm still undecided. I NEED my HD box. I can already use my existing PVR's for analog recording with some manipulation, but would like the ease of being able to record any digital signal at any time. I'm trying to figure out how two similar SA boxes (3100HD and 8000) would be kept seperate in terms of IR remote control in the same room. If they don't clash, I'll get one this week. If they use the same IR codes, I won't be giving up the HD.

vegggas

vegggas

Sorry if this question is dumb, and i'm probably not using the right terminology, but...can this DVR box convert an HD signal from Cox so that we get HD programming? or can it just not record/replay an HD signal?

If the 8000 means no HDTV at all, then it's a no brainer...i will wait until the HD version comes out. If it'll show HD but just not record/replay HD then I will get it now and upgrade later.

Sorry for my ignorance...

-jb

Everything I've read says this particular box is not compatible with HD. There are two versions of the 8000 - the 8000HD is the one that records and displays HD and SD. The 8000 (what is available on tue) is the one that records and displays SD only.
Found this link for more complete and detailed info:Link to LV DVR FAQ (http://www.cox.com/LasVegas/DVR/DVR%20Faq.asp) Check the connectors - There are no HD capable outputs, other than a "extremly unlikely" firewire connector. SA has said on their website that this connector is not software enabled yet, but will be available in the future.

I think the first test version last year on the east coast "was" an HD box with the HD recording disabled. The software would have been developed for HD and scaled back for SD usage. Since then with all the delays and legal issues, it appears there is still a need for the SD version for a majority of users - Hence the availability of this box. You don't think they are going to stop making SD Tivo's any time soon do ya?

vegggas

Well, I didn't wait. Went down this morning to wait in line, but there wasn't much of one. Got the new DVR , went home, opened the box, and cussed (should have opened the box while I was still there).. There was no remote, cables, or user guide in the box. The only piece of paper in the box was the set up instructions for the sa800HD,,,yes the HD version, although the DVR was the correct non-HD version, explorer 8000. I had to go back down again to get the stuff that was missing :mad: (why does this always happen to me?). Anyway, all is well now. Everything functioning as it should but not all features are available yet awaiting future software upgrades.

Originally posted by gvc
The only piece of paper in the box was the set up instructions for the sa800HD,,,yes the HD version, although the DVR was the correct non-HD version, explorer 8000
---------
Everything functioning as it should but not all features are available yet awaiting future software upgrades.

Ummm... did you keep the HD instructions? - for comparison purposes.

Care to explain the features that are not available??? I heard the Analog VCR input and the firewire I/O are not enabled yet (SA's website).
Other than that, how is it?

vegggas

mmm... did you keep the HD instructions? - for comparison purposes.

Care to explain the features that are not available??? I heard the Analog VCR input and the firewire I/O are not enabled yet (SA's website).
Other than that, how is it?


Yes, you are right, the VCR output is not functional unless you have the "picture in picture" activated. If it is set to "on" then the feed from that tuner is outputed through the VCR output.

Some other observations at this point...the box itself is larger than what you might expect but not a problem. The thing that kind of bugs me is the noise factor...the constant whirring and ticking of the hard drive while the unit is on. It is contstantly buffering the channel you are watching for the live tv capabilities whether you want it to or not. The unit will also keep "running" after your power down for a while, but eventually settles down. I haven't done mucho recording yet, but one of my digital channel recordings had a playback problem while trying to fast forward. The fast forward playback was not smooth at all and actually froze up for short periods of time. This was not apparent on a subsequent analog channel playback or on "live tv" buffering fast forward. Dont know yet if this will be apparent on any digital channel recordings or just some of them.

Overall, I am happy with the unit, as long as it keeps doing what its supposed to. After reading some of the postings from other users at Yahoo Groups and other forums, I am a bit concerned about the units reliability. Several users aroung the country have had to replace their units more than once. I'll keep my fingers crossed :)

Hi, I'm new here......love the board and thought I would post my opinion on the new DVR box.

GVC was right, on some of the Digital Channels there is a problem with Fast Forward freezing (I tried it on G4TV). And I did notice the buffering problem when I go to change channels.......it sometimes takes a second or two to change channels.

My DVR is whisper quiet though......I haven't had any HD sound issues with my DVR. Wonder if I just got lucky...LOL

Overall quality is excellent though. Especially when I record shows while I'm watching something else.......it's seamless. BTW, looks like Cox dedicated channel 850 as the DVR playback channel :-)

Tech

Does this device have a coaxial S/PDIF out port? And if so, when a program on digital channels (like HBO) is saved on the PVR, is the Dolby Digital still usable on a receiver with DD?

(Or is the DirecTivo STILL the only way to do this with standard definition?)

It does have a Coaxial Digital Output. I haven't tried the 5.1 recording yet but according to sciatl.com it says you CAN record and playback 5.1 streams.

Tech

Originally posted by techdestroyer
It does have a Coaxial Digital Output. I haven't tried the 5.1 recording yet but according to sciatl.com it says you CAN record and playback 5.1 streams.

Tech

Thanks! The sciatl.com site sure promises a lot in terms of coming improvements to the device. Cox came >>>>this<<<< close to losing a customer to DirecTivo's ability to timeshift DD5.1 sound.

Ok, a digital cable box gets unplugged tonight to be swapped for an 8000 tomorrow.:D

General comments and my opinions...

FF buffer - I would not test the recording capabilities with the G4TV channel. That channel is EXTREMELY bad and freezes every few moments during shows that I've tried to watch. It's the only channel to do this and I think it's a source problem off the sats that only appears to affect the programs and not local commerecials.
For GVC with the FF issue and noise. Some drives are louder than others, BUT, there could be a problem with the drive you have. Be skeptical.
One possibility for the ff issue is that the signal is too low and the digital signal is "breaking up". Typically, a digi box will buffer the input and most won't notice the breakup since there is a buffer and it retransmits the lost packets. Could be a design problem with too small a buffer for the recording side..?? If it persists, I would exchange it anyway.

DD 5.1 - This is supposed to be one of this boxes better features. 5.1 recording from the digital source. Supposed to give the same exact digital signal on a recording as what's coming down the line. One thing to test would be to see if the digital outputs convert analog audio channels to digital (i.e. anything less than ch 100). The older boxes do not support this, but newer models do. Hopefully it does do A/D conversion for easier integration.
Someone let us know ;)...

Channel 850 is the DVR channel - Cool. Now, if SA gets that whole house DVR feature working, just tune to 850 from any room in the house with any other SA box and enjoy.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas


DD 5.1 - This is supposed to be one of this boxes better features. 5.1 recording from the digital source. Supposed to give the same exact digital signal on a recording as what's coming down the line. One thing to test would be to see if the digital outputs convert analog audio channels to digital (i.e. anything less than ch 100). The older boxes do not support this, but newer models do. Hopefully it does do A/D conversion for easier integration.
Someone let us know ;)...

vegggas

Which of the Digital Cable boxes that Cox offers do convert the analog audio to digital? I have a entry level receiver in my den which does not auto-select, and I have to switch sources when I go below Channel 100. Of course, I don't have to do that for Channel 123. <smirk>

I know the 2100 and the 3250 don't convert.:mad:

vegggas,

Any word on the digital duplication and remap?

I assume the 8000 uses an encoder for the analog channels, and just copies the bitstream for the digital channels. Does it have settings for quality on the analog encoder?

Its cool we're finally getting PVR, I'm just waiting for HD PVR. mmmmm

I am definitely going to exchange my 2000 for an 8000. One feature that I have not seen mentioned though...

The ability to log in via the internet from a remote location (such as work) and schedule a recording on the DVR. TIVO has this ability with the Home Media Option and an always-on internet connection. Since the box is always on-line, it seems that this would be an easy (and very cool) feature for the 8000. And if it's already there....yahoo!!

RE: A/D up-conversion.

Cool! The DVR DOES do up-conversion from analog to digital (but only on recorded shows). I tried it with a UPN broadcast of Star Trek TNG and replayed it on my Sony HT System. Played through my Coax Digital connection just fine.

We haven't mentioned HD in a while, so, to keep things more on topic... The 8000HD is exactly the same in form and functionality as the newly released 8000 except the HD version has HD outputs. Once this copy flag mess gets sorted out, it's HD DVR's for everyone. Expect the final review of the FCC decision by congress before the late January deadline. After that, it's a possible 30 days to delivery for all manufacturers and vendors.

A/D conversion - confirmed on a recording! - Great! Check your settings for an option for audio output. There should be an adjustment to get digital audio from analog channels. I can't remember where I read the comparison charts on various STB's, but I think it mentioned boxes after the 3200 series as having A/D converters. The Pioneer Voyager boxes COX uses might also do A/D conversion. Our office has one on a TV, but I never bothered to check the settings since it's connected via RF to a generic TV. I'll check it tomorrow.

Internet scheduling - Replay started that back with their dial up showstoppers several years ago and still continues today with the ethernet models. Not sure if they could implement that into the 8000. The Program guide is interactive and generated for each session, so it could be difficult.

Quality settings - I don't have an 8000. Anybody with one want to check the settings (or the HD manual;) )

Digital duplication (of analog) - Have not heard anything recently, but last thing I remember was a December remap. My Prediction - At minimum, there should be all the locals (pending legalities) in the digital tier before 2004.

vegggas

One possibility for the ff issue is that the signal is too low and the digital signal is "breaking up". Typically, a digi box will buffer the input and most won't notice the breakup since there is a buffer and it retransmits the lost packets

One cool feature is the ability to look at a detailed diagnostic screen. If you press and hold the "select" button on the box until the "mail" light shines green, then hit the "info" button that is on the box itself, then a 22 page diagnostic area comes on the screen. You can use the page up/down to scroll through all the pages. I'm not a Technician in any sense of the word so much of the stuff is incomprehensible to me, but there are signal strength paremeters listed so one will be able so see if that may be the problem. I will say that the ff issue so far was only on that one channel of the ones that I have recorded on so far. BTW, I think looking at the diagnostic area is the only exact way of finding out for sure how much space is left available for recording. It will give used/free measures.

The sound of the hard drive issue is probably my own personal problem. I was used to a non-hard drive box so anything different was bound to be noticed. I must have sensative ears !, but the more I get used to it , the less noticeable it has become now.

digital audio... i may be wrong , but I think I remember reading somewhere that there is a remote hack that allows the unit to output digital audio on an analog channel but it only lasts as long as your on that particular channel and you have to do it everytime.

For your viewing pleasure, I have scanned the picture of the back of the HD unit. Hope it comes out ok.... well..the attachment is not showing up on the preview reply screen so it may not work. :(

Originally posted by vegggas


Quality settings - I don't have an 8000. Anybody with one want to check the settings (or the HD manual;) )



vegggas [/B]

Picked up my 8000 at lunch. No quality settings available. "30-50 hours of programming" is the capacity. Only one line about archiving to VCR in the users manual from Cox.

Personally, I'll be archiving to DVD-R's. Now, if there was only a way to save that digital audio.

i just ordered an 8000 over the phone. Cox is going to fed-ex it to me. the lady on the phone said i could have both my 3150 and my 8000 hooked up to the same tv. that way i can have dvr and hdtv. might be complicated to hook up...we'll see.

college hoops is almost here and i need to tape the espn games shown at 7pm EST, i get home from work to late... ;)

jb

Can you put the 8000 with the 3100HD or just the 3150on the same tv??????? What's the difference?

Back somewhere I remember a discussion about the 8000 being like a server???

Second question: Could you use the 8000 as your DVR on a second tv and feed all of your sd shows down to the 3100HD? I realize they would be sd but it would be nice to have the server.

THANKS!

oops, i have a 3100hd not 3150....

Originally posted by Outflying
Can you put the 8000 with the 3100HD or just the 3150on the same tv??????? What's the difference?

You could put them both on the same TV, but since they use the same IR codeset, when you point the remote torwards them, both will accept the IR signals and both will change accordingly.

Back somewhere I remember a discussion about the 8000 being like a server???
SA is developing a way so that you can go to ANY Digital box in your house, tune to your DVR's channel, and then playback content on any other box with up to 4 different streams at once. The boxes will use the qam return signal mod already in use to get the Interactive Program Guide data as the secure stream to the other boxes on your account.

Second question: Could you use the 8000 as your DVR on a second tv and feed all of your sd shows down to the 3100HD? I realize they would be sd but it would be nice to have the server.
When the above scenario is complete - YES, But don't limit yourself to just SD content, HD content will be streamable from the 8000HD to the HD series cable boxes too.

vegggas

Thanks for the fast response.


When the above scenario is complete - YES, But don't limit yourself to just SD content, HD content will be streamable from the 8000HD to the HD series cable boxes too.

I will be getting the 8000HD when it comes out for sure. I'm getting anxious so I was trying to come up with some sort of work around since the sd box is here now. Sounds like more of a pain then its worth.

Q: When will the Explorer 8000 for HDTV be available?

A: It is currently anticipated that the Explorer 8000HD Home Entertainment server will be available in the December 2003-March 2004 timeframe. To find out when the Explorer 8000HD will be available in your area, please contact your cable company.

Here's to hoping for that q1 04 arrival!:D

Originally posted by Outflying
Q: When will the Explorer 8000 for HDTV be available?

A: It is currently anticipated that the Explorer 8000HD Home Entertainment server will be available in the December 2003-March 2004 timeframe. To find out when the Explorer 8000HD will be available in your area, please contact your cable company.

Here's to hoping for that q1 04 arrival!:D
The 8000HD was demonstrated over a year ago in Oct/Nov 2002 and field tested in Q2 of 2003. It's been on hold and undergoing legal software upgrades until all the legalities are worked out for broadcast flag and copyright issues with all Pay-TV HD-DVR's. Expect delivery within a few weeks of final agreements with the FCC, congress, studios and broadcasters. All vendors have been pushing back their "release" dates based on those agreements. I believe the FCC ruling expects a January deadline for the next round of congressional hearings.
Basically, When everybody gets the "green light", there will be many options to choose from within a few short weeks of that finalization.

vegggas

i had to have a Cox guy come out yesterday to fix something...while he was here, i asked him about the 8000HD. He said that at a meeting that AM, he was told it would be available in January.

Take it FWIW, as vegggas has said it's a little more complicated than that....but that's what the COx cable tech said...thought you might be interested.

He also suggested to wait until after the superbowl to get one because they will have a "special"...and that they will be promoting it around the superbowl.

-jb

Originally posted by vegggas
We haven't mentioned HD in a while, so, to keep things more on topic... vegggas

Received letter from Cox. INHD 1 & 2 will start on 1 December. ESPN HD will move to the new "HD Expanded Tier" at the same time and there is no charge for this Tier.

If you have Local + ESPN HD already you will see you bill reduced by $5 to reflect the new Free ESPN HD . If you have Local + ESPN HD and Discovery HD, your bill will be reduced by $1.99.

At what point in the future does Cox hit us with a fee for the new "HD Expanded Tier?"

Originally posted by NevadaJack
Received letter from Cox. INHD 1 & 2 will start on 1 December. ESPN HD will move to the new "HD Expanded Tier" at the same time and there is no charge for this Tier.

If you have Local + ESPN HD already you will see you bill reduced by $5 to reflect the new Free ESPN HD . If you have Local + ESPN HD and Discovery HD, your bill will be reduced by $1.99.

At what point in the future does Cox hit us with a fee for the new "HD Expanded Tier?"
That's easy, they won't be charging for it. The tier is just for the locals and now ESPNHD and InHD 1&2. It's supposed to be part of the digital package with an HD box and minimum subscription of basic and at least a digital gateway. I think they are trying to get away from the "locals in HD only model" with customers who are not digital subscribers. This way a digital HD customer can also have interactive services and future services available to them.

vegggas

I have noticed a cleaner picture signal on all analog channels especially the local channel numbers. Has Cox changed anything recently? Or, most likely, its the result on the new Explorer 8000 box ( I didn't have HD before the switch). I used to get lousy picture quality on the local numbers and couldn't wait for the anticipated change to putting these on the digital area, like NBC is now on 123. But now, everything is much better.

Also, Cox is starting to advertise FREE HD service. Assuming the price difference between standard and HD remains the same after the DVR comes out in HD , how much more is the HD box per month? thanks ..hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving!

Free is such a relative word anymore. It should be no added cost. Nobody gets anything but over the air stuff free. I haven't seen (or noticed) any of these Cox commercials advertising free HD service. In my mind that's a lie. Also is the digital gateway considered a digital tier or do you have to get some digital channels for it to count as a digital teir. Also they say that you have to have a digital tier to get the expanded HD teir. I didn't think they could force you to get one service to get another. That's how you can get basic cable and HBO (not a good deal anymore since there is only one analog HBO).

Originally posted by gvc
I have noticed a cleaner picture signal on all analog channels especially the local channel numbers. Has Cox changed anything recently? Or, most likely, its the result on the new Explorer 8000 box ( I didn't have HD before the switch). I used to get lousy picture quality on the local numbers and couldn't wait for the anticipated change to putting these on the digital area, like NBC is now on 123. But now, everything is much better.

Also, Cox is starting to advertise FREE HD service. Assuming the price difference between standard and HD remains the same after the DVR comes out in HD , how much more is the HD box per month? thanks ..hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving!
No changes on the Cox side - I know they put out a clean signal, it's all in the path to your TV that makes the difference. Example: There is no difference between Digital NBC on 123 and the analog version on channel 3, except the volume level, at my house.
Two reasons it may be better. First, after changing out your box, you may have removed a splitter (-3.5db minimum loss or greater) or moved (or replaced) a cable that the ground was not making a good contact. Poor grounds (or shields) allow the OTA signals to interfere with the signals coming down the wire causing a very poor picture on the set. This is the biggest problem we face in the hotel PPV distribution systems we manage (old wiring where the shields work loose internally). Also, un-terminated wall jacks and barrels act like antennas that do the same thing.
Second, A nearby connection point may have been compromised and repaired. Similar to the first scenario, where a junction box may be open, damaged, or tampered with, may have been reported and repaired. I've learned that all signals leaving Cox are on fiber with broadcast quality signals to individual nodes in dozens of neighborhoods. I live in S. Highlands and the signal is fiber fed from the spaghetti bowl area to about a block away from my house. A knicked cable from construction down the street, virtually knocked out my analog and modem signals and caused a lot of tiling on the digital signals several months ago. It was found and repaired and looks as good as ever.
The Free HD is Free to digital customers, as noted earlier, with ESPN, INHD 1&2 and the locals. If you don't get digital interactive services, you can't get the tier. The pricing difference is just for the rental of the HD box. When the HD DVR is released, it will probably follow the pricing structure of current HD boxes and be a few dollars more.

Next Monday is the First of the month. A bunch of stuff is being moved around and added and the two INHD channels are being added. Also, I've heard the 3250HD boxes will be available after the first of the month too.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
Next Monday is the First of the month. A bunch of stuff is being moved around and added and the two INHD channels are being added. Also, I've heard the 3250HD boxes will be available after the first of the month too.

vegggas


Can we just switch out our 3100 boxes at Cox? Will they give us a hassle? Is there a big benefit for switching?

Originally posted by Tallen234
Can we just switch out our 3100 boxes at Cox? Will they give us a hassle? Is there a big benefit for switching?
I wouldn't waste my time trying to get one this week. The CSR's won't have a clue until next week anyway. Not sure what needs to be done to get switched out.
AFAIK, the 3250HD offers a functional DVI connection for those that want it. The output resolution is switchable, and the HD format can be adjusted to be expanded or zoomed (or is that only the 3270HD??). The box is said to scale down the HD to fit the guide and offer SD output too. Don't know how many features will be implemented here in Las Vegas. The SA website PDF still says DVI is to be turned on at a later date, but the PDF is old.
SA's PDF file for the 3250HD (http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/userguidepdfs/752313.pdf)
Check out this link for setup questions (http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/cablingPDFs/HDTV%20Setup%20Wizard%204003114%20Rev%20A.pdf)

vegggas

Additional info on 3250HD box available in December.
Sources say that there are both a coaxial and and an optical digital output on these boxes. They also incorporate a D/A converter for analog out via those digital outputs. This helps the users that do not have auto switching audio inputs to hear analog channel audio on a digital single input. Caveat - it will be a 2 channel digital signal. If your reciever does not auto switch, it may not be able to apply surround modes (like DPL II) to those channels. ESPN is a good example - Circle surround sounds bad in digital format (DD2.0), but fed through analog processing like DLP II sounds amazingly good.
DVI outputs are Auto-sensing and conditional based on your TV's ability to use HDCP. If your TV does not support HDCP, then you will get a message telling you to use the component outputs. The HDCP laws are not complete, so there is a big chance for upgrades and possible cut-offs until that time (FCC says March 2004 deadlline).
1394 ports (2) are on the boxes. SA will NOT activate those ports until the FCC clears the 5C encryption scheme in March. These will enable Digital and HD recording to digital VCRs and other digital devices as well as bypassing the set top decoder to use your own decoder if equipped.

vegggas

I emailed Cox LV today and asked specifically if the SA3250HD box would be available on Dec 1 and if the DVI connection would be activated. They responded a short time ago and said NO to both questions. They did not offer any additional information.

I also asked if a "no cost swap" could be made with the SA3100HD box when the SA3250HD was available and they said YES...by taking the box to Cox on Rancho.

you mean the main Cox building on MLK?

Originally posted by NevadaJack
I emailed Cox LV today and asked specifically if the SA3250HD box would be available on Dec 1 and if the DVI connection would be activated. They responded a short time ago and said NO to both questions. They did not offer any additional information.

I also asked if a "no cost swap" could be made with the SA3100HD box when the SA3250HD was available and they said YES...by taking the box to Cox on Rancho.

CSR's... They probably won't know anything until this week after the channel change takes place tonight and any issues get resolved. They wouldn't want too many things going on at once and a converter swapout would be best after the software push to avoid any problems. Ask again on Wednesday or Thursday, IF the new channel additions go without any problems.
We know the 1394 will not be operational until the FCC decides next year, but the DVI port is considered to be working unless there are some legalities with the HDCP activation with older TV's. Worst case scenario - Connect with DVI - HDCP is not enabled - Signal and content are recorded out the firewire port of the TV to Digital VCR or similar device - Studios get mad and blacklist companies and devices. If there is a problem, it should be resolved by the end of the year, or at the latest, March 2004.

There is a bank style drive-thru at the new COX building on Rancho, but I haven't used it yet. Not sure if the MLK office is still open.

vegggas

Thanks...I plan to swap when they are available and if the DVI does not work, at least I am ready...:-)

I agree that the MLK office is probably closed or at least does not do any of the routine service.

A few questions:

1) Will the 3250 stretch/zoom for non hd content to get rid of the side bars?

2) Will it output sound to a receiver via the digital audio output for channels below 100?

3) You can swap out your 3100HD for no charge?

4) They will be available tomorrow?

I went to the link above and read the manual but it doesn't answer any of these. Thanks!

Talked to Cox and did more research:

1) Yes

2) Still don't know

3) Yes, they are in stock and there is no charge to swap.

4) Yes currently in stock.

More 3250 HD info (http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/cablingPDFs/HDTV%20Setup%20Wizard%204003114%20Rev%20A.pdf)

:p

Originally posted by Outflying
Talked to Cox and did more research:

1) Yes

2) Still don't know

3) Yes, they are in stock and there is no charge to swap.

4) Yes currently in stock.

More 3250 HD info (http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/cablingPDFs/HDTV%20Setup%20Wizard%204003114%20Rev%20A.pdf)

:p

Did they indicate whether they will supply a DVI cable for the connection?

I will make the swap tomorrow morning based on your information.

Seems like they are in stock @ the Henderson office also. Just called Cox @ 9pm 11-30-03

Swapped my 3100 for a AS3250HD this morning at Cox Rancho. No problems but only return the box...keep the cables and remote. Also, they do not supply a DVI cable so you will have to purchase one. I stopped by CompUSA on Sahara and picked up a 3.28' Monster for $79.95...yes $79.95.

However, the money was well spent...connected using the DVI connection and really think the PQ is better. Did not really have time to take a close look but HD was eye popping and I think even better. The digital channels above 100 really looked better and some movies looked almost HD quality. The analogs below 100 did not look as good I don't think but will have to take a closer look.

Will download the manual from SA and look into what works and what doesn't concerning picture size, etc.

I also got mine this morning....the only problem was getting someone at Cox smart enough to get this box activated... I refused to wait until tomorrow so someone could over and tell me someone at Cox had their head up their pooper. After 3 phone calls and a canceled service call someone finally got it right.

Same deal. Spent over an hour on the phone with the first lady. Constant: You are not authorized ... The second person got me going in no time. Had the same problem with the dvr a month ago too. Seems like there's aways a little learning curve when you get the new equipment right away when it comes out. Up and running fine but I didn't get a dvi connector yet.

Anyone at least try to see if the 1394 ports were active?

Originally posted by Outflying
Same deal. Spent over an hour on the phone with the first lady. Constant: You are not authorized ... The second person got me going in no time. Had the same problem with the dvr a month ago too. Seems like there's aways a little learning curve when you get the new equipment right away when it comes out. Up and running fine but I didn't get a dvi connector yet.

Hey PT...got that same you are not authorized but was lucky I guess. Lawrence asked me what the message was...said he would take care of it and send some kind of signal and boom I had booting and images.

Like the fact that I can set the border from light to dark on 4::3 formats. Hated that grey which just accentuated the border...I guess that was done to protect the CRT's sets from burnin.

Don't know about the 1394 ports yet...

Jack

Glad to hear that so many people are getting the 3250 box and that the DVI is apparently operational!
Lots of questions... Any other comparisons? How are the features? Is it worth the trip and wait?
Has anyone changed the box output to 720P for a native 720P set and watched MNF yet - Especially through DVI :D
I know the 1394 is not enabled. SA is NOT allowed to do that yet, but I would like some confirmation on a few supposed things.

Does it have:
1) Dual digital outputs - Optical and Coaxial?
2) Digital Audio on Analog channels?
3) Auto resolution control? (480P on SD and auto output to 1080 on HD)

Did anyone notice InHD 1&2 on 706 and 707? Soft up-conversions on some material, but there is some good demo material on the other shows.

Eleven HD channels and only three are OTA - life is getting sweet.

vegggas

I have been having connection problems with the DVI. Worked fine for awhile but then I could not get a signal to the TV. My replace bulb light was blinking but that also indicates a signal problem.

I called Sony and went though a series of connecting, rebooting etc., to ensure the box was working. I finally rebooted the box and I hac a picture and it was working. Sony said to check with Cox because the set was fine.

Turned the set off, went out to dinner and when I turned it on, the same problem. No signal to the TV. I had run my 3100 with the cable in and component connections...not a problem at all. I set up and was running with cable in and DVI connection when the problems started.

I called COX and related my problem to the Tech. After some discussion she said I had to connect the Video Out on the box to the UHF/VHF connection on the TV. I told her this should not be necessary and that it was working earlier. Anyway I made the connection and immeadialely everything worked. I asked her why. She said let me check. She came back on and said the DVI outlet was not activated on the box and that it would be supported in the future.

Now I was really confused...she said that is why I was having signal problems. Now I don't know if I have a DVI connection or not. When I go into the General Setting it says the Picture Control is Auto DVI...with other option about Upconvert 1 and 2 and one other.

I am no techy and could use an explanation of what the proper procedure is with DVI and this box. The tech was helpful but was limited in her knowledge of what was occuring. The analog channels seem better than with the 3100 and the digital and HD look great. But I wonder if I should shift back to Component until SA comes out with the software to run the DVI connection.

Need some input.

I was just reading some related info on some other threads and websites. Other cities and users are waiting for a final release of the DVI software from SA so that they can use their DVI ports. What we (you) might be seeing is an early or beta release from SA that may not be active for general or public use. Once the box has been on a while it might be deactivating, or timing out after an initial test period. This is just a guess, but it would fit your description of what was happening to your box and typical of prereleased firmware.
Link to a hardware thread on AVS of the 3250HD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2892869#post2892869)
It was mentioned earlier that the DVI port may not be fully activated because of the copy protection schemes that are still not finalized. Once SA has a release, I'm sure we will hear about it. I was hoping it was available already, but there is no definitive answer from SA yet.

vegggas

Does anyone have the 3250 box hooked up to a Sony 34XBR800 or 34XBR910??? If so is the dreaded vertical bar problem present on the 1080i outputs?? I know that it is not present using the 3100 box as I have a friend who has a Sony XBR800 (and the 3100 box) and the problem is not there.

I am looking at getting the Sony XBR910, that is why I am asking. Any info would be appreciated...

Keith

Originally posted by vegggas
I was just reading some related info on some other threads and websites. Other cities and users are waiting for a final release of the DVI software from SA so that they can use their DVI ports. What we (you) might be seeing is an early or beta release from SA that may not be active for general or public use. Once the box has been on a while it might be deactivating, or timing out after an initial test period. This is just a guess, but it would fit your description of what was happening to your box and typical of prereleased firmware.
Link to a hardware thread on AVS of the 3250HD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2892869#post2892869)
It was mentioned earlier that the DVI port may not be fully activated because of the copy protection schemes that are still not finalized. Once SA has a release, I'm sure we will hear about it. I was hoping it was available already, but there is no definitive answer from SA yet.

vegggas

Update: I have been running with the setup in my earlier post (uhf/vhf AND DVI) with no problems. But today it happened again...lost signal and could not acquire and only got a black screen. So I disconnected the DVI AND the vhf/uhf and reconnected the component cables and it acquired the signal and picture with no problems.

So my assessment is that the DVI will work for "awhile" but not for long. Since I was receiving HD and Digital with the uhf/vhf and DVI, the HD and Digital had to be working off the DVI cable...correct? The vhf/uhf cable could not support the digital signal to the best of my knowledge.

Anyway...I am back in business and awaiting Cox or SA to install the firmware to use only the DVI connection.

Can someone using this box please answer Vegass' questions about analog to digital audio conversion for the analog stations and auto resolution control for SD stations. I want to make sure these work before switching over to Cox for my HD. (I currently have an OTA tuner)

Originally posted by TheNatural
Can someone using this box please answer Vegass' questions about analog to digital audio conversion for the analog stations and auto resolution control for SD stations. I want to make sure these work before switching over to Cox for my HD. (I currently have an OTA tuner)

I really can't help you since I don't understand the questions. Tell me what I should look for and I will try and find an answer for you. I like what I see and hear but as far as the technical points of how it works and in what format I really don't have a clue.

Have you checked the SA site and FAQ for the SA3250HD? They may have some info to help you determine the answers. Sorry

I'm using the optical connection to my receiver and it sends sound for all channels. Even 2 - 76. I haven't tried the digital audio out on this box but I know on the 3100hd it didn't send any sound below 100.

For non HD stations there is a stretch feature to get rid of the gray bars. It's not automatic but only takes a few pushes to get there. When you tune to an HD station you have to manually un-stretch or else you're missing part of the picture.

Does this help?

Are you guys glad that you upgraded to the new box?

Thanks Outflying, that is what I wanted to know. Looks like I might be switching.

Originally posted by vegggas
Does it have:
1) Dual digital outputs - Optical and Coaxial?
2) Digital Audio on Analog channels?
3) Auto resolution control? (480P on SD and auto output to 1080 on HD)
vegggas

1) It sounds like it does have both an optical and and the coaxial (RCA plug) digital outputs available to both types of users.

2) It is converting the analog audio on channels below 100 to a digital signal that is available over the digital outputs.

3) This is harder. There is something in the setup that allows you to choose the type of video output for HD (TV wide or 4x3 and resolution type). I assume it is something like this:[list=a] [/list=a] [list=a]
All output is down converted to 480i to view 480i images of all channels including HD. This is the NTSC standard and makes VCR recording possible of the "HD" channels once down converted.
All output is up/down converted to 480P to view 480P images of all channels including HD.
All output is up/down converted to 720P to view 720P images of all channels, leaving any 720P as native in and out of the box. This removes any scaling of the 720P channels from ESPN and ABC and provides better pictures for TV's that can display 720P.
All output is up converted to 1080i to view 1080i images of all channels, leaving any 1080i as native in and out of the box and still converting 720P to 1080i (This is the only mode the 3100 does).
All output is up/down converted to 480P to view 480P images of all SD channels, but HD is automatically output at 720P.
All output is up/down converted to 480P to view 480P images of all SD channels, but HD is automatically output at 1080i.
[/list=a]
I'm hoping that the last function is how the box works. All output will be at 480P, effectively line doubling the SD outputs, but allowing HD to pass through as normal. I would assume that this is the standard output when just choosing the TV type as a 1080i set and using the DVI or Component outputs (this is what the X-Box does). This way, I could watch the SD material over the HD inputs without the conversion up to 1080i.

vegggas

Anyone interested in having an audioenvy type demo situation here in Vegas for demoing different audio/video gear?

Noticed in Sears ad in Sunday's RJ that we have a new kid on the block. The Voom Sat Network claiming to have 21 HD channels. Not cheap, $750 for equipment. Anyone know anything about this?

Yeah do a search for Voom in the programming forum.

Anyone know why we're not getting the NBA game tonight on INHD? I wonder if it's blackout out in our area (although this isn't exactly LA).

jb

Hey guys, have any of you noticed that INHD has a lot of NBA games blacked out. I think they black out the Laker games. What the heck? Is LA considered a local market? I do get the game on Fox Sports Net, but it is (of course) not in HD.

Wow, it looks like you beat me to it by one minuggte JB.

Yes the lakers are considered our local market team. Any team that is reguraly on Fox Sports West will be blacked out on HDNet or InHD.

Bump for any news on HD PVRs and NBC going HD????

Originally posted by Tallen234
Bump for any news on HD PVRs and NBC going HD????

Just for the hell of it, I called Cox on three consecutive days and asked when the HD DVR's were coming out. One said February, one said June, and the other had no clue what I was talking about!! So in other words, who knows? As for NBC HD, I don't think we'll see this in Vegas in our lifetime. It's probably all about money that KVBC doesn't want to spend. That's just my opinion, though.

HD PVR's will be available to Cox about the same time as everybody else's release dates. Current suspected release dates are mid to late January, with the possibility the copy restriction agreements will be dragging out into February. It was noted in a recent article that SA has already shipped over 800,000 DVR units to MSO's for deployment. The same article talks about and references HD DVR's (8000 series), but is not exactly clear if the shipped number is for HD, HD+SD, or just SD units. It also mentions they are spinning off the 8000HD with the 8100HD with built in whole house video server technology, using the 3100HD's as receivers in other rooms. Those should be available by summer. Ooooh yeah!

NBC has bought the HD equipment (it is presumed), but no updates from anyone here yet actually confirming a testing or turn on date. It was slyly mentioned earlier on this thread it would be available before HD PVR's were available from Cox though...:rolleyes:
Does that mean an NBC HD Christmas is coming, or is it another Happy SD New Year?:D


vegggas

To hell with NBC! Cheap sons of bithes. I don't watch their channel. Same with FOX. If I want to watch their channels I switch to Directv (380's). Until they prove they care about their viewers (which obviously they don't), My viewing time goes to Directv and their advertisers.




Originally posted by vegggas

NBC has bought the HD equipment (it is presumed), but no updates from anyone here yet actually confirming a testing or turn on date. It was slyly mentioned earlier on this thread it would be available before HD PVR's were available from Cox though...:rolleyes:
Does that mean an NBC HD Christmas is coming, or is it another Happy SD New Year?:D


vegggas

Anyone know if the DVI connection on the SA3250HD is activated?

I connected yesterday using the DVI on Video 7 on my Sony KF50WE610 (HDCP compatible) and I am getting analog, digital and HD channels with great PQ. In the options picture sizing is set to Auto DVI so I have to assume the DVI is fully activated and working.

Earlier Cox had told me it was not supported and required a Firmware update to the box. I had some intitial problems losing signal but this was found to be with the Sony and not the box.

Originally posted by hogan88
To hell with NBC! Cheap sons of bithes. I don't watch their channel. Same with FOX. If I want to watch their channels I switch to Directv (380's). Until they prove they care about their viewers (which obviously they don't), My viewing time goes to Directv and their advertisers.

Just to be fair, I had heard that NBC had already bought their equipment pre 9-11. When NY had to replace their tower and equipment, it was KVBC here in Vegas that supplied that equipment. They are still slow to respond to getting HD, but it is coming.
As for FOX, there is no excuse. They are just not delivering an HD signal yet. What's worse is that the digital OTA version is no better than the analog.
Nevada Jack, good to hear that your DVI is working! SA is still working on a finalized update for the DVI ports to cover most equipment. What was the problem with your Sony?

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
Just to be fair, I had heard that NBC had already bought their equipment pre 9-11. When NY had to replace their tower and equipment, it was KVBC here in Vegas that supplied that equipment. They are still slow to respond to getting HD, but it is coming.
As for FOX, there is no excuse. They are just not delivering an HD signal yet. What's worse is that the digital OTA version is no better than the analog.
Nevada Jack, good to hear that your DVI is working! SA is still working on a finalized update for the DVI ports to cover most equipment. What was the problem with your Sony?

vegggas

Sony has a problem with start up on the new GWIII (KF-42/50/60WE610) models. Seems one of the boards needs some mods to ensure the bulb will fire and turn the set on. I had times when the set would just show a black screen...no picture or sound. There are many who have the same problem...see RearProjection, GWIII Buzz thread. Anyway, contacted Sony and they sent out Tech who did some tests and then ordered the Mod Kit and New Bulb from Sony. Set is presently working fine but never know when it will not fire up.

The images on these sets are the best I have seen...the HD is mind blowing in PQ. This LCD RPTV is selling like hotcakes...Sony has a winner with these units. The 50" lists for $3299 but I got it for $2811 delivered from OneCall.com.

The DVI connection is working fine.

I'm in the Summerlin area and will be getting the Hitachi 51S700 next Saturday. Can I get digital and HD signals OTA with an indoor antenna? Does anybody in Vegas use an indoor antenna to get OTA digital and HD? I'm in an apartment and really don't have anyplace for an outdoor antenna. And if you are using an indoor antenna which model and where did you get it?

Thanks.

Anyone?

Originally posted by VegasFool
I'm in the Summerlin area and will be getting the Hitachi 51S700 next Saturday. Can I get digital and HD signals OTA with an indoor antenna? Does anybody in Vegas use an indoor antenna to get OTA digital and HD? I'm in an apartment and really don't have anyplace for an outdoor antenna. And if you are using an indoor antenna which model and where did you get it?

Thanks.

From what I understand. No you can't get digitial channels over the air. Some HD channels are available OTA.

You may be able to get HD channels via regular antenna's. Use the search and you'll find posts reguarding good antenna's

I have Cox expanded and a cable modem. It cost about an additional $20 more a month for a digital box that has HDTV channels, not including premium channels. Plus the Picture/sound will be much better than analog

Thanks FastEddie.

I'll have to check out some antennas. How is Cox HD? About how many channels are they offering now?

ABC, CBS, PBS, free with HD box, ESPN, Discovery, HBO1&2, SHO1&2, INHD1, INHD2. NBC is coming someday. They will be adding channels more rapidly in the future, so they say. The quality really depends on channel. PBS is very good, but ABC sound level is really low during the broadcast. Then when a analog comercial comes on it blows you out of the seat. It's not really Cox's fault, they just pass through the signal from the the source. But it's new technology so feel the bumps in the road.

Eddie

I don't have the minimum "basic" pacakge, from COX for HD, but I believe that as a "basic" customer, you can get the first 17 analog channels for about $9.00. (expanded to 79 is more) A digital gateway package to allow digital interactive services is $5.00 and certifies you as a digital customer. To get HD, you would have to rent an HD box for $9.95. As a digital HD customer (not just basic) with an HD box, you get put on the HD tier at no charge. The Free HD tier has ABCHD, CBSHD, PBSHD, INHD1, INHD2, ESPNHD (and eventually NBCHD when they go HD sometime soon). Currently HBOEHD, HBOWHD, SHOEHD, SHOWHD are also available with subscriptions to those packages and DiscHD is a-la-cart.

Review:
$9.00 - Basic service
$5.00 - Digital gateway
$9.95 - HD box rental
--------------------------
$23.95 for (6 channels) ABC, CBS, PBS, INHD1, INHD2 and ESPN all in HD when available

If you are not already a COX customer, you should wait until the TV arrives before ordering service, so that you can get everything at one time. There probably is a hookup fee for the turn on of initial service and truck roll, but you should not voluntarily pay the "installation fee for HD" unless you want them to do everything for you.

vegggas

vegasfool, i live near summerlin, Buffalo & vegas dr, current ota ditigal channels are NBC 3.1, fox, 5.1, abc 13.2, wb 21.1, knic 16.1, Pbs 11.4 sometimes and the PBD HD is remapped to 11.3, HD channels cbs 8.1, pbs 10.1, abc 13.1. I use an outdoor antenna on my sat dish, however in amplified indoor antenna should work depending on your HD tuner.

Hope this is a help

Originally posted by lionsfan
vegasfool, i live near summerlin, Buffalo & vegas dr, current ota ditigal channels are NBC 3.1, fox, 5.1, abc 13.2, wb 21.1, knic 16.1, Pbs 11.4 sometimes and the PBD HD is remapped to 11.3, HD channels cbs 8.1, pbs 10.1, abc 13.1. I use an outdoor antenna on my sat dish, however in amplified indoor antenna should work depending on your HD tuner.

Hope this is a help

Loads of help!!! Thanks lionsfan! Now I have to find a good amplified indoor antenna.

I use an RCA model ANT1250 amplified indoor antenna I picked up at Wal Mart for around $25. I live in Henderson at College & Horizon and I am able to get all of the digital stations with this antenna and my Samsung SIR-T165 receiver.

does any one know is PBS did anything with its signal. I no longer get the digital on my sat520 box but still get digital on my mits integrated tuner.

Lionsfan - Try remapping your channels and see if that works. You may have to retune to the correct subchannel if they are moving things around as someone mentioned here earlier.

Has anyone with a 3250HD box tried to use the firewire ports yet? They are not supposed to be active, but without any software, they may just puke out the data stream. A few users in other areas have seen this with other boxes, just wondering if it is watchable here.

vegggas

Is anybody having a problem receiving KFBT's digital channel 29? I have a Dish 6000u receiver and picked it up with no problem. About three weeks ago, I lost the channel. When I add it, the signal strength bounces from 93% down to 35% down to 0% then back to 93 and so on. I've deleted all channels, and still no luck. Channel 33 won't respond to e-mails and I can't get the receptionist to pass me on..she just says they don't have a problem. I get a perfect picture on their analog station and have no problem with any of the other digital channels (3, 5, 8, 10, 13, 15, 21).

Same here with my sat520 box and builtin tuner in my mits tv

I just posted a SA3250 review and guide on the HD Hardware section. Since it deals with our box and system, anyone interested should check it out.

Link to the SA3250 Review and guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3145627#post3145627)

vegggas

Does anyone think there will be any additional information at CES this week? I suppose that since we are just waiting on the legalities, nothing new. The technology is already here.

Is there any way for a layman to get into CES? I was reading on the website that it is closed to the general pubic. What can I do to get in?

I'm thinking of upgrading to Cox HD now that ESPNHD is free but I'm don't know how I'm going to hook up my TV for PIP. Can you split the coax before it gets to your box and run one line to the ANT in and the other to the box? This way I can have HD on one input and standard PIP capable cable on another. Since I don't have digital now, I don't know if you can run strait to the TV from a digital outlet. How do you guys deal with your PIP?

Thanks

But make sure you get the SA3250hd box. It stretches and zooms, etc.

For pip: split out of wall:

one lead to sa3250hd
one lead to coax in on your tv

the hd box feeds the tv through the component leads.

Limitation = digital in one window, analog in the other.

Originally posted by Outflying


Is there any way for a layman to get into CES? I was reading on the website that it is closed to the general pubic. What can I do to get in? [/B]

You can register for CES months in advance on their website. Just make up a fake company name and use your home address. You have to fill out a questionaire when registering, basically asking what kind of company it is, your job function, what your company's interests are, etc. Just make stuff up. You'll get your badge in the mail. I've been going for years. Best of all, when done in advance, admission is free. If you were to register now they charge a fee of $75 to $100.

When you upgrade to digital cable (the $5 gateway), do you need someone to come out and do something at your house or can you just pick up the box at the Cox office and set it up yourself? I'm not sure what you are paying for with the installation costs. Cox says they will install a digital outlet, but are they really just hooking up a box for you or do they actually install something?