I would think the next HD addition would be Bravo so everyone can watch the Olympics in HD.

I would like to see KVVU Fox5 added to Cox in the fall (mainly for the NFL coverage.........the Super Bowl is on Fox this season)

Good point about Bravo. I forgot about that one. I had heard TNT thrown around, but not Bravo. It must be the baseball games lately giving TNT some exposure... (???)

vegggas

Actually the NBA on TNT is giving them exposure........showing the Western Conference Finals in HighDef starting May 1st.

I would like to see Fox5 too, but last I heard they had no interest in broadcasting in HD.

It is fine that they added Max and starz the problem is that we are now getting 2 less movie channels than we were before.

As others have pointed out, the two channels that were removed, were just 3 hour timeshifted duplicates of the current HD channels. It was nice having them for the time savings and variety, but having two different movie sources has a lot more variety at any given time. When the HD-DVR is available, the duplicate channels would become worthless and just take up bandwidth anyway.

Fox5 - Has anyone confirmed that they sold their bandwidth to USDTV? I had heard they sold the bandwidth that was going to be used for HD to USDTV to use, effectively killing any chance of true HD signals.

vegggas

I understand the package thing now...but Cox was not clear when they said HBOE and SHOE would be replaced with StarzHD and CinemaxHD on 711 and 721. They should clarify that you MUST have the package to receive them. If I am not mistaken their HD Program Listing INCLUDED HBOE/W and SHOE/W which totalled 12.

Since I do not have Cinemax package my total HD channels dropped to 11 from the 12 I had with the HBOE and SHOE...

Cox gets $140+ a month from me and I'll be dammed if they will get more just to get one HD channel.

Sent an email today to KVVU FOX-5 asking if we could expect HD in time for NFL football this fall and this was the answer I received:

"We will be installing HD equipment in August/September. This will be in time for the Fox HD rollout......

Thanks,

Jack Smith
KVVU engineering"

Somewhat encouraging, I would say....

Keith

Hey Vegas Folk.................

Does anyone know an ISF qualified calibrator here in Las Vegas?

I am buying a projector and am going to need an expert to dial it in for me.

Thanks,

Steve

Yes that does sound encouraging coming from Fox. It's good news actully. I hope they don't run into the same problems NBC had.

Audio on Padres game (Saturday) is way off tonight!! Almost two seconds behind. Very annoying. Also, for you late nightters. Have you noticed that INHD2 has not had any HD programming broadcasting overnight practically the whole week? Just SD infomericals stretched to widescreen. YUK!! What's up with that?

I emailed Cox about this INHD2 matter and here is what the replied with:
>Dear Valued Cox Customer:
>
> Thank you for contacting Cox Communications. Cox is committed to
> providing the best Customer service possible.
>
> We understand the frustration that viewers may experience with specific
> programming. We regret to inform you that we do not control the
> programming for the INHD2. Please contact www.espn.go.com directly for
> more information on why this programming change occurred. We appreciate
> your understanding in this matter.

???--What does ESPN have to do with this???

They are allowing the San Diego station (4 SD) to continue to broadcast 24/7 so essentially channel 707 is a San Diego station.

I called Cox CSR today (Monday) to complain about lack of INHD2 programming (Ch 4 San Diego being left on full-time for about the last week). She said that I would have to contact INHD, and they had no telephone number. I said that I had checked the INHD website and programming such as Arena football and other events was listed on the schedule, but not being shown on Cox channel 707 as listed both in the online guide and the INHD guide on their website. She insisted that this was INHD's doing and that I need to contact them. I tried to explain to no avail that the INHD signal was being overridden by the Ch 4 San Diego signal 24hrs a day 7 days a week, and if that is going to be the case then Cox should not advertise INHD2 as part of their programming package. She then insisted again that this was none of Cox's doing, and that the programming supplied by INHD2 was just being passed along. She would not connect me with a supervisor, and said (again) that I should contact INHD. So I guess I will have to try a written complaint to Cox and see what that does.

On a side note, I asked her about the HD DVR's and she said that they have them in stock, and are just waiting for them to be launched - her best guess was 2 weeks and she suggested that I call back then.....

I will update if I hear anything further......

Keith

I actually talked to someone today and got most of the story about INHD2. Seems they are using the Cox SD4 channel and San Diego's INHD2 feed and program guide information from the offices in San Diego. This is so that whenever SD4 preempts INHD2 for a Padre Game in HD, we get the same feed as they do. Problem is, someone is not switching the main feed back to INHD2 (duh).
It appears the feed being sent from San Diego is the problem if they are the ones who are supposed to throw the switch for the master feed for that channel. In essence, we are now getting our INHD2 channel from the San Diego system. The people who can get this fixed are now aware of the problem or will be by morning. It looks like a mis-communication between the two cities as to which one is supposed to act as master controller for the feeds.

HD DVR - Sounding like a broken record... Late April / Early May release time-frame. Two weeks sounds about right.

vegggas

That makes sense.......they just have to get together on who throws the switch...Would like to see Arena Football on INHD2......Las Vegas will be on May 8th at Philadelphia.......I wonder why INHD is showing the games on the 2nd channel and not the main INHD......maybe because it may conflict with MLB coverage.......Kinda think less people will be able to see AFL because INHD2 is used for local sports programming in some cities.

You guys know what is going to happen now....they will forget to switch to the game and we will be stuck watching Snow Tigers or Underwater Gardens. ;)

My buddy ordered the HD Tivo for DirectTV, I am now in a personal battle to get my HD PVR prior to him. His should be here in about 2 weeks....

KBLR-DT 40 is now on the air. I noticed last night that they have the remaining channels for USDTV. It appears the sell-outs are KBLR and the Sinclair stations (33 & 21). USDTV is now ready for prime time.

INHD2 is restored to full normal use now. The San Diego feed for Padre games on 4SD will be moved to 708 and on the air before the start of tonight's game at 7:00PM. If you can't see 708 by gametime at 7:00PM, do a reboot.

vegggas

edit: 708 is now in the guide as PADRE and is working.

v

Wow
Great stuff! I'm still in shock that we are getting 100+ Padre games in HD for FREE!!

jb

Its nice to see cox do something good (although they overcharged my friend the other day-- charging him for digicable when he didnt order it/get it installed).

Is 708 in the clear? or encrypted? I can check if I get some free time tonight.

Looks like its encrypted... though it seems that a few regular digicable channels arent scrambled (A&E Biography, Nat'l Geographic, History Intl).

Any one using a sat-520 or hd200 having any problems when tuning in channel 8-1. Since friday when watching channel 8-1 on my sat-520 receiver it reboots. Happened several times within a few minutes friday night and again today. Had to switch to builtin tuner in tv to watch CBS HD. Did not happen on any other channels

Anyone have OTA working well in Vegas? I'm in the 89148 area code wondering what antenna will work well (about 15.5miles from all stations broadcasts according to antennaweb).

How is NBC in HD OTA? Is Las Vegas in HD yet here? Would seem weird that we can't get Las Vegas in HD in...Vegas!

I have a friend that's going to give me his Silver Sensor so I'll test that before trying any other antenna. I'm hoping I'm close enough to the broadcasts, with no obstructions, that it can pick up the lowband VHF.

I receive OTA on my PC. Using the Channel Master Model 4030
Amplified Indoor Antenna. Works quite well, I can tune every channel from the Silverado Ranch 89123 area, but that is much closer than 15 miles. NBC doesn't broadcast much in HD, at least not as much as PBS or CBS. The show 'Las Vegas' is in HD. The silver sensor is a UHF antenna. This city has something like 5 VHF stations. You will pick up the higher stations, but NBC is on 2. You're probably better off getting an outdoor antenna.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Hey Vegas Folk.................

Does anyone know an ISF qualified calibrator here in Las Vegas?

I am buying a projector and am going to need an expert to dial it in for me.

Thanks,

Steve

I have not used one here, but I have used Gregg Loewen of Lion AV. He is based out of Maine, but he makes routine trips out this way a couple times a year. Gregg has done my Sony RPTV and made it look spectacular. He will be coming out to do my Marantz projector in June. I'm sure he wouldn't mind picking up another job while he's here. Let me know if you'd like more info. He occasionially posts on AVS and HTF, usually under the RPTV section.

Pat

Pat.........

If you don't mind PM me with his contact information.

thanks,

Steve

To lionsfan i also been having same problem with 8-1 rebooting. I called zenith and was told it's not the receiver but it maybe coming from the broadcaster.I'am going to call channel 8 when i get some time if you have found a fix please post.

bkhatescars,

thanks for the response, i though i was with this box having a problem. As of yesterday still having the problem. Do you know who to call at channel 8, if more than 1 person calls maybe they fix the problem. They may not even know thay are causing a problem with these boxes.

I physically saw one of the HD DVR boxes today in my companies office and got to ask some questions of the tech and took a few notes. The box I saw had the following physical notable features:

Hard Drive - 160GB Maxtor - The label is clearly viewable through the vents
Firewire ports - 2
Digital Audio outputs - Both Coax and Optical
DVI Output port
Component Output
Audio and video inputs

I don't know which features will be active at launch, but as long as the connectors are on the box, there is always a chance they will get turned on.
Other notes.
This thing is BIG and Bulky. I don't have the non-HD version to compare it to, but the width and depth are much larger than the 3250, and takes up an entire rack shelf of space.
This box appears ready for use, but does not have the software available yet for operation (came out of a sealed SA cardboard box). A beta software set will be installed either Friday or more likely, on Monday. Beta software should be buggy, and it's expected to take several weeks to work out the problems for customer rollout, but should correct the problems others have had, and introduce new feature sets. Customer rollout is dependent on corporate acceptance of software after testing. Realistic timeframe for public release, if accepted, was heard to be June.
Power up and first boot took a long time, but probably due to getting complete base software download and not getting operation software.
There was no ability to test any functionality until software is downloaded, but I will get another chance to play around with it tomorrow and Monday to find out more details, assuming it's not still a brick and the tech gets it working.
San Diego has added a signup list on their website for future users. It is hoped Las Vegas will do the same, once they get some sort of approval from corporate to pre-release boxes. If I hear of anything similar, it will get passed along here.

vegggas

I've recently began having issues with channel 8 also. Even with good signal strength, the sound stutters. The picture stays looking great though. Another thing I noticed is that while I was watching the channel displayed on my receiver kept switching between 8-1 and 7-1. My only theory is that somehow that sub-carrier frequency that tells the box to map digital channel 7 to 8-1 is somehow too weak or not formatted correctly so it's screwing with our boxes. I have a Samsung sir-t165 so perhaps my box can still deal with this problem and not reboot (but the sound stutters) but the Zenith boxes you guys are using reboot when this comes up.

Thanks for the report Veggas................

I am looking forward to getting one when they become available.

Steve

Called channel 8 today left a message with Doug Kramer about are problem.When he calls back i will post results.

Add one more user with the same 8.1 problem. Began a few weeks ago.

Is'nt the internet a great thing.Never got a call friday hopefuly next week.What bad luck my panny big screen took a dump last night had to vent.

I have samsung 160 and also having problems with cbs 8.1. My box will lock once i tune to different station. Only happens with 8.1

thanks for the update Vegggas. I am still hoping to get the Cox HDPVR before my buddy gets the HD Directivo.

Anyone watch the AFL game on INHD2?......Las Vegas vs. Philadephia.....PQ is pretty decent

OK, I got to spend some time with a working HD DVR unit. One word, Sweeeeet!
Now, I've used sd DirecTivo and it had it's features and benefits, and then I moved over to Replay and enjoyed those features. I prefer the Replay, but that's me and my opinion. My first taste of an HD-DVR is the SA8000, and even without the extended feature sets of the others, it IS a decent device.
RECORDING: You can record a show directly from the guide, by pressing record or the select button to bring up the options. The options are either once, all shows at any time on this channel, or all shows at this time period on this channel. You can also do a MANUAL recording by date, time and channel that overrides the guide. The feature to record only new shows is dependent on the IPG showing the program as "new" or repeat, which is not available at this time. To me, it's not a problem. I'll record it anyway and delete if I've seen it, the same way I've done it on Replay for years. You can record two HD shows at the same time and play back a third. If you try to schedule a third recording at the same time, it will notify you to either cancel the current choice, or one of the previous choices.
QUALITY: No noticeable difference in quality between the 3250HD and 8000HD. I recorded two HD streams at the same time with no noticeable loss. I then played back another HD stream of the "In Theaters" while recording DiscoveryHD and PBSHD. I was able to pause/ff/rew/slo-mo the playback with no stutter or skipping. Even on pause and frame by frame playback, there was no noticeable artifacts or tiling on fast motion scenes or "strobed" scenes from the previews of Van Helsing and Spiderman 2. I was able to pause and see some minor blocking of a water scene on PBS, but I believe that is the case from the source and not a result of the recording. I also never noticed ANY hard drive noise with three HD streams being processed, but the room was not silent enough to simulate a bedroom or HT environment.
SETUP: Very similar to the 3250 advanced Setup to choose output resolutions and TV type. No option yet for upconvert, only a fixed output, which we chose as 1080i. Changing the output resolution did not affect the quality of the recording, which appears to record at the resolution coming down the line. This is a good thing, because we now know that
it records the original digital signal without any alteration by the STB during the recording process. Any alteration, such as formatting, would be done as the signal is decoded and output from the box, leaving the original in pristine condition.
Storage Space: The unit has a 160GB Maxtor Drive. After filling it with HD programs all day and several scheduled recordings, we used under 20% storage. Initial guess is hard to determine exactly, and will vary with content, but it looks like it will hold at about 30 hours of HD content or a ton of SD material or a combination of the two. It was described to me that there are several partitions on the drive. One for permanent storage, and one partition each for each tuner to cache an hour's worth of HD content and then OS and other partitions. To fulfill the 30 hours of HD, the datarate, I estimate you would have to average about 12Mbps, which is about right for a mixture of content as the datarate is averaged between scenes. If you record nothing but INHD concerts with flashing lights and fast action, you may have less recording time, then if you recorded dark Primetime dramas.
Other notes: I'm unable to test DVI or Firewire ports due to a lack of equipment, but my guess is that they are currently disabled. I have not tried to archive to VCR or use SD outputs either. I'm also not allowed to reveal any SA software revisions or box revisions until public release, but I'm sure they are going to change over the next few weeks anyway.

Any Questions (beside when is it available - looks like June)?

vegggas

Hey Vegggas, what does the interface look like? Does it have a season pass options? How about a favorites option? Just curious about the extras it may offer that separates it from a VCR...thx

Originally posted by Tallen234
Hey Vegggas, what does the interface look like? Does it have a season pass options? How about a favorites option? Just curious about the extras it may offer that separates it from a VCR...thx

The interface is the guide and the guide is the interface.

When a program is highlighted, you select it. If you want to see a similar interface, press guide on your remote for your current box, choose a program in the next time block (the DVR will record the current and future time blocks) and press select. It will ask if you want to record it (using VCR recording on other boxes). You could also just press the settings button and it will ask if you want to record that show (if you accidently start a timer VCR recording and your box seems stuck, press EXIT).

As for recording options, it just asks if this is a single recording, or if you want all, or all at this time.

SA website Demo (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/demo/dvr/dvr.html)
8000 FAQ (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/index_new.asp)
SA user guides (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/index_new.asp)

vegggas

So I take it has less recording time than the HD TiVo has. That's interesting. Is there any way to upgrade the hard drive like the TiVo unit or would that get everyone in trouble since I assume you must rent the box. Something I am not in favor of. I would rather pay the full cost up front and not be like my parents who have rented there cable modem for about 8-10 years at $5-$10/ month (I don't remember which). It sounds to me that the TiVo unit has more features in the software than the SA box has. It's going to be interesting when TiVo makes a HD box that hooks into Cable. Also how much does this cost. If it's close to the price of the regular box I might get both.

Vegggas,

DVI & 1394 isn't active yet on the prerelease. Archive to VCR is kinda cool, If you have a program in your list of recorded programs, just select it and turn your VCR on to record (or DVD recorder in my case) and it sends that program out to the recorder via the archive output. Now if they could just activate the VCR commander to automate the process. I saw the next generation prototype of this box with a DVD burner built into it. Thank God they added the Drive Space Indicator and the " Record all episodes at this time slot" option. before this I had to setup manual recordings with no show titles because my programs would repeat during the day and I'd end up with duplicate recordings.

....Lonnie

...........................Update........................... .

It appears that you have to choose in the setup wizard which connections your going to use for viewing, (HDTV) YPbPr OR (SDTV) SVideo/Composite/Coax, it doesn't send a signal out of both at the same time. :-(
I used the S-Video output on the 8000 for my PC's ATI AIW tuner AUX input and viewed the DVR's video in an overlay window on my desktop

......Dang

Originally posted by lvthunder
So I take it has less recording time than the HD TiVo has. That's interesting. Is there any way to upgrade the hard drive like the TiVo unit or would that get everyone in trouble since I assume you must rent the box. Something I am not in favor of. I would rather pay the full cost up front and not be like my parents who have rented there cable modem for about 8-10 years at $5-$10/ month (I don't remember which). It sounds to me that the TiVo unit has more features in the software than the SA box has. It's going to be interesting when TiVo makes a HD box that hooks into Cable. Also how much does this cost. If it's close to the price of the regular box I might get both.
Assuming that SAT compresses the hell out of it's signals more than cable, then sure, the SAT TIVO will hold more hours of filtered down data. At $9.95/ month the rental is far cheaper than the $1000 up front cost of the TIVO by 100 months or almost 9 years. I plan to upgrade to the 8300HD this fall to enable whole home HD distribution, and feel fortunate I only have to swap boxes. Way ahead of the game even after the first several years. I'm sorry you never spoke to your parents about purchasing a modem. I bought one several years ago for $29.00 at Compusa and stopped renting immediately. That choice is theirs. If the cost difference were not so great, it could be a valid argument, but a 9 year breakeven point, or even half that, is absurd in todays electronics industry.
The SA box is not for sale, so you are not allowed to upgrade it. Three different methods of archiving are being tossed around. Firewire to firewire device, ATA to ATA drive or device, and the DVD burner option. So far Tivo has no options other than to hack the unit and add more drives. The SA unit will allow daisychained 1394 or serial ATA drives for unlimited storage once they are activated. This current box does have all the connections except the serial ATA chain I saw at CES, connected to the media option box. Sony and other vendors have cable card equipped DVRs hitting the stores this summer with Tivo like functioality, but expect prices to be over the $1000 mark. Tivo should also have a cablecard box available, but I wouldn't expect it this year. They are too dependent on the kickbacks from D* to keep sales up.
BTW, Time Warner is now doing field trials of the 8300 in undisclosed markets right now and initial results are through the roof.
lawndog makes some good points about the recording options. Although basic, they are very effective in getting what you want. If you want more features, use the guide and search by theme, title or other means to find obscure items. If found that tivo function completely worthless to me, because I only wanted to record shows that I wanted and had time to view. Erase options are also multi-tiered. Keep forever, delet oldest, etc.
In a final comparison between the two, I would have to say that the hardware is identical, with a performance edge to the SA box at this time. Both guide speed and latency are better with the SA box right now with no lag in getting three HD streams being processed. The Tivo only gets nods for the "extras" provided with their thumb selections that steer people into what the advertisers are paying tivo to advertise and collect data on user preferences. I'm not keen on having my data tracked by Tivo and it's advertisers, and that was one of the main reasons I went with Replay (along with direct DVD copy). This product offers more security and freedom as others, but with the added benefit of being able to process three HD streams at once.

vegggas

First of all D* doesn't compress to hell as vegggas claims. I just watched the Sharks v. Flames on ESPNHD and it was remarkable. All of the HD channels are remarkable. My experience with digital cable was a very poor picture compared to D* as well.

Deadwood is also pretty amazing on HBOHD.

I should not have inserted those comments and should be as objective as possible. For me, the switch from D* to cable was a no-brainer. Signals were much cleaner on cable for me. Y_M_M_V. If I had left the home wiring as it was, the signal would be crap at the reciever. I was able to wire my home to get the best possible signal source from either provider, and Cable won hands down, especially comparing ESPNHD and HBOHD signal sources. There have been a lot of discussions about D* limiting their bandwidth and limiting their signals to only 1500 lines instead of 1920 and so forth. Cable is not allowed to reduce those signals. With those numbers, I could see why a Tivo unit could record more so called HD with the same size drive space, while the data rate is reduced, so is the amount of space needed to record it.
I offer as an example to those in Las Vegas who think D* is clearer. Does the wiring for each service come out to be equal? How often does your dish run to each room in the house through taps and splitters before getting to a receiver and be reduced by as much as 15 - 20db? Ever run a cable from your demarcation point directly to the receiver, like a sat setup and noticed any difference?
Nevertheless, I should not be surfing the forum while intoxicated again, and apologize profusely. At this point, SD material is starting to look like HD:D
Basically, I was trying to point out that you do not have to spend $1000 on a unit to record HD content. The SA8000HD is an awesome unit that is virtually identical in hardware to the newly released Tivo unit in terms of Hardware and gives you everything you need and is available in today's market while being a faster and cleaner approach. The only people complaining are those who already invested money in a technology and feel they have to further invest more money to keep up with cable.
(end drunken rant)

peace out - no harm - no foul

vegggas

My point was the HD TiVo comes with a 250GB drive. I don't like TiVo's suggestions either, but I use it to see how much space is left on the drive. I do like TiVo's Wishlists though. I also like Directv better than Cox mainly because a couple of Cox's custemer support people were rude to me over the phone. For me customer support overrules a lot of other things. That and Directv has HDNet. I'm a big hockey fan and HDNet shows a lot of HD hockey games. Also I have read someone post on the TiVo Community forum that in a couple months you would be able to rent the TiVo unit too? I don't know if it's true or not but it might be. So the cost for the SA8000HD is the same as the box I have now. Are there any other fees? Now I'm not trying to discount this box at all. I'm just trying to figure out if it's as good as TiVo and what the costs are.

I don't like any DVR method for determining drive space available They are never accuarate. Replay says 3 hours 10 minutes of space left, 2 hours and 40 minutes later, I'm out of space. The Tivo did the same thing to me too. The SA8000 unit shows a percentage of space used, which we all know is varible depending on content.
The 8000 is not supposed to be a Tivo replacement. It is a dedicated DVR that does DVR functions. It does not license any of the features that Tivo has and is driven by a simple guide. Face it, Sat people are forced to be more user savy than cable users, and thus the products tend to have more features associated with Sat.
You mention customer support. This goes both ways too. I couldn't get any support from D* at all and at least with Cox, someone would show up at my house to fix things. That's a wash, because D* pushes all the support onto the local installers and leaves them with the problems, or onto the 3rd party box providers. According to D* they could do no wrong, they just rain signals down upon the earth...
Hocky on INHD is awesome! I do hope the tivo is available for rent someday. If not, they will have serious financial problems down the road.

vegggas

I disagree with you about the guide on Directv versus cable. The guide on Directv has always popped up at the current time and channel whereas on cable when I had the guide it always showed a couple hours ahead and always on channel 1. I don't see how you can say that sat people must be more user savy. But I do admit that I am very computer savy myself. As for customer support I know that it varys so much. No ones experiences in this area is the same. Hopefully InHD will be coming to Directv soon. I have read that Directv is going to add more HD once the new sat is online.

The guide does come up to the current channel at the current time.
I only say that savy sat users must go and research their products and have some technical sense in hooking it up and then tweak their hookups to obtain optimal performance. The average cable sub just calls in an order and it starts working and they have no knowledge of why or how it does. They expect a product that is not complicated with too many user adjustable options. Press the record button on the highlighted program and it's done. Two steps at most. To playback, they hit LIST and select the recorded show. Extremely simple interface. The people who have the most trouble are those who have become accustomed to using D*guide. The basic development between the two are completely backwards and most are not able to change back and forth. Once you get accustomed to either one, you can discover subtle nuances on each that really enhace the product. Here in America, driving on the right side and using the right hand to shift seems natural if you have done it most of your life, but discovering how the rest of the world does it the opposite way opens your eyes to a different way of thinking. Same goes for Metric vs impirial measurment. Going back and forth between the two, however, is seriously screwing with your mind.
Forget about INHD for a long time. It's owned by cable conglomerates as a free service to cable subscribers, hence their logo "Only on Cable".

More DVR stuff. The different rates of encoding really do make a difference. The recording of Peter Gabriel in concert on InHD lasted under 2.5 hours, but took over 11% of the recording space. Three seperate 1 hour shows on CBSHD took less than 9% and two hours of ABCHD took less than 5%. Time and space really are dependent on bit rate. Interesting factors on how much time you can actually record to these things.

vegggas

I couldn't stand the digital cable guide. That was the other major factor in switching back to D*. My fiance mentioned to me one evening about how terrible the guide was to go along with the subpar picture quality. My house is new in Rhodes Ranch and has great wiring. For satellite however I ran seperate lines for each receiver directly from the satellite. You're right, if there are runs over 100 ft with shoddy cable you won't get a very good picture with satellite. But with seperate lines directly from the dish, it works fabulously. Can't wait to watch the Lightning v Flyers game tonight on ESPNHD.

I have used both and when you really distill them down to their prime differences, the only things that matter to me are:

1. Cable has better HD content and future capability/better control over local channels.

2. DirecTV has NFL Sunday Ticket.

Fortunately, a friend of mine has NFL Sunday Ticket, so it is not that big of a deal for me.

Originally posted by DoritoOfDeath
I couldn't stand the digital cable guide. That was the other major factor in switching back to D*. My fiance mentioned to me one evening about how terrible the guide was to go along with the subpar picture quality. My house is new in Rhodes Ranch and has great wiring. For satellite however I ran seperate lines for each receiver directly from the satellite. You're right, if there are runs over 100 ft with shoddy cable you won't get a very good picture with satellite. But with seperate lines directly from the dish, it works fabulously. Can't wait to watch the Lightning v Flyers game tonight on ESPNHD.
If you already had great wiring in the house, you would have used it for the Sat. Try running a single line to a STB for Cable, and you would be amazed at the PQ difference. Doing construction and custom home theater installations, I've never seen a contractor run cable lines correctly, unless an outside company was hired to do the lines and then come back and finish the install after the customer moved in. You can't expect a 15dB cable drop feed to go through an entire house with 50Db of losses and still come out looking good (at -35Db and tons of ingress). This is why Sat users run new lines directly from their sats because the losses in their house won't even pass the signal, yet they think it's ok for other sources.

vegggas

I know this is probably answered somewhere earlier in this thread, but is Las Vegas in HD here yet? I think I recall someone saying it was...I'm all ready to watch it tonight if it's in HD.

Edit: Nevermind, I saw someone answered the last time I asked. Can't wait to see this show in HD.

Leno is filmed in Las Vegas on HD this week too.

I install structured cable for an "outside company" we also do alarm pre-wire. So at times we go to new construction to pre-wire alarm, the structure being done by electricians, Veggas is absolutely correct about how contractors run cable. I've seen some really horrible wiring done. Some run it like Romex, share the same holes with AC, run parallel with AC line all the way to the de-mark. Smashed coax with romex staple's, I could go on and on. It's really the buyer/builders fault. Yes we charge more than the electrical contractors, but we do it right. So it comes down to the buyer/builder saving a few bucks on wiring. Result being the buyer has to look at an inferior picture for the rest of their life, and blame Cox for a crappy picture. I use to install for Cox, I know how frustrating it was to go to a new house and not be able to get a clean Pic. Sorry, ranting!!!

So it goes.

Couple things:

"You can record two HD shows at the same time and play back a third. If you try to schedule a third recording at the same time, it will notify you to either cancel the current choice, or one of the previous choices."

OK, let me get this straight: this means that you cannot record a third HD program. Would you be able to watch a third HD program? If that's the case, damn, that's awesome! Makes Sunday nights better.


"I install structured cable for an "outside company" we also do alarm pre-wire. So at times we go to new construction to pre-wire alarm, the structure being done by electricians, Veggas is absolutely correct about how contractors run cable. I've seen some really horrible wiring done. Some run it like Romex, share the same holes with AC, run parallel with AC line all the way to the de-mark. Smashed coax with romex staple's, I could go on and on. It's really the buyer/builders fault. Yes we charge more than the electrical contractors, but we do it right. So it comes down to the buyer/builder saving a few bucks on wiring. Result being the buyer has to look at an inferior picture for the rest of their life, and blame Cox for a crappy picture. I use to install for Cox, I know how frustrating it was to go to a new house and not be able to get a clean Pic. Sorry, ranting!!!"

I had a Cox tech out a couple weeks ago to deal with a weak signal and I asked him about running a second line into my new theater room. There is one line coming in now which has a splitter on it for the SD TV and the modem. I was going to split it again for HD on the projector, but he said I had already degraded the signal strength enough, especially for the modem. He suggested I have a "contractor" come in and run another line. That sounded expensive. Is it that expensive to have this done? Do I actually need it done? The room is actually on the same side of the house as the cable box, so it would actually be a fairly short run.

Sorry for the long post!
Pat

It's pretty difficult to estimate the cost without seeing the job. Many factors involved. Is this a two story home? What level is the room on? Does your house have a smart box for the cable and phone lines?
I'd say the tech was right, that you probably don't want to add a three way splitter if your already have a weak signal.

Originally posted by fasteddielv
It's pretty difficult to estimate the cost without seeing the job. Many factors involved. Is this a two story home? What level is the room on? Does your house have a smart box for the cable and phone lines?
I'd say the tech was right, that you probably don't want to add a three way splitter if your already have a weak signal.

2 story, room is on the second floor over the garage. I'm not sure what a smart box is.

OK, let me get this straight: this means that you cannot record a third HD program. Would you be able to watch a third HD program? If that's the case, damn, that's awesome! Makes Sunday nights better.

The SA8000 box has two complete tuners. These two tuners can both tune HD. Either one, or both tuners can be recorded or viewed at the same time, even if both are recording/showing HD. Since there are only two tuners, that is the maximum recording or viewing capacity (second tuner is also used for PIP directly off the box, so you can get an HD channel with an HD PIP window). The THIRD HD source came from a pre-recorded HD program already stored on the drive. So, even though you are recording two different HD channels at the same time and you can watch either one of those, but not a third "live" channel, you CAN watch a third recorded program without interfering with the other two recordings.

fasteddielv - Thanks for the backup on my drunken rant. It was off topic and I digressed, but after doing this for almost twenty years, I shudder at what most people think is good wiring in their homes. I think I made more money selling and installing RG6 cable, just by running a direct line on the floor and through a window or door, from the home entry point directly to the TV as a demonstration than by selling the High End Audio Video system I used to create. And no, I still don't endorse monster wire, or any other brand of cable. It's the quality of the install, the fittings on the ends, and all the interconnects that make ALL the difference.

vegggas

Max, over the garage, cool, that just may make it easier (if the cable enters from the street at the garge). A smart box is a panel located usually in a closet that contains all the low voltage wires (cable, phone lines distributed to the outlets).
Did the cable tech solve your signal issue?

My $0.02 worth, not to step on your feet fasteddielv ;)
In an effort to try to help out a person trying to save some money and be a bit more educated on their own home, you might want to answer these 4 questions first before doing anything.

1) How many cable runs (outlets) do you have in the house? (i.e. outlets, whether used or not, including all bedrooms, living, dining, kitchen, outside, etc, etc.)

2) Of those cable runs, how many are actually used? (used or not, they lower the available signal level to other outlets and actually degrade the local signals by allowing ingress that makes locals look bad)

3) Do you have access to the cable distribution in your home? (typically on side of house near gas lines, or in closets, or in attics)

4) If you have access to the distribution, how many of those cable runs are actually connected, and are they connected with a single multi-output splitter or many different splitters?

There are more questions, but a lot can be determined from these 4 main questions. In some homes, especially ones with prewires to all rooms, the distribution is usually setup bad and just making a change in what is needed and used will make dramatic differences.

vegggas

Any further word on WHEN I can go down and pick up a HD PVR?

Steve

Steve,

I was told that you should call customer service and ask to be placed on the waiting list, no exact date has been set yet, employee testing has begun and hopefully in the next couple weeks it'll be ready for release.

....Lonnie

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Any further word on WHEN I can go down and pick up a HD PVR?

Steve
As I mentioned before, it looks llike June. It also appears that San Diego has released the 8000HD in their market, but I'm awaiting confirmation from a few users there.

I will get to do more testing tonight...

vegggas

Super............. Thanks,

Steve

I must say NBC is by far the worst OTA station here. I got every other station in fine at over 80% strength with no problem. Yet with NBC I was getting 0-15% wavering hugely. I pumped the Amp to 100% (which reduces every other channel to 0 reception) and I could get NBC wavering between 10-50% signal, which is still no good to watch a show on. Any idea why NBC is such crap?

It must be your location. NBC and Fox (which only does 480i) is broadcast from Black Mountain. ABC, CBS, and PBS are broadcast from the mountain over seven hills (don't know the name of that mountain) so for me OTA NBC and Fox are all I can get a signal on at all. How is your reception for Fox and which area of town do you live in?

I get over 70% stable for Fox. My location is Rhodes Ranch (southwest). I need 0 amplification for Fox.

It sounds like either a peak of the mountain is in the way or you need to rotate the antenna. I get a good signal from them, but I live so close I could probibly just run a coax across the street and up the mountain.

Yeah you're too close to really know how bad they are. I know a number of people all over the valley that either can't get it or get such a weak signal it's unwatchable. NBC only too.

Originally posted by fasteddielv
Max, over the garage, cool, that just may make it easier (if the cable enters from the street at the garge). A smart box is a panel located usually in a closet that contains all the low voltage wires (cable, phone lines distributed to the outlets).
Did the cable tech solve your signal issue?

There is a box in a downstairs closet, but I think it's just for an alarm system if I ever needed it. I'll have to look at it closer to see if there is cable. The electrician that did my PJ noticed the coax bundle in the the attic and said he could see where the line was running around up there and then down towards the box on the side of the house.

The tech did solve the issue, and he said he was going to have the tech's check the street also. No noticeable differences, but everything works.

Pat

Originally posted by vegggas
My $0.02 worth, not to step on your feet fasteddielv ;)
In an effort to try to help out a person trying to save some money and be a bit more educated on their own home, you might want to answer these 4 questions first before doing anything.

1) How many cable runs (outlets) do you have in the house? (i.e. outlets, whether used or not, including all bedrooms, living, dining, kitchen, outside, etc, etc.)

2) Of those cable runs, how many are actually used? (used or not, they lower the available signal level to other outlets and actually degrade the local signals by allowing ingress that makes locals look bad)

3) Do you have access to the cable distribution in your home? (typically on side of house near gas lines, or in closets, or in attics)

4) If you have access to the distribution, how many of those cable runs are actually connected, and are they connected with a single multi-output splitter or many different splitters?

There are more questions, but a lot can be determined from these 4 main questions. In some homes, especially ones with prewires to all rooms, the distribution is usually setup bad and just making a change in what is needed and used will make dramatic differences.

vegggas

Responses:
1. 7, that includes the theater which has the split for the modem and a SD TV in there.
2. 6 of them are used.
3. The cable access is on the side of the house, I was looking at it when the tech was out last time. The lines also seem to run through the attic and then drop to that box.
4. I don't remember how many were connected.

Veggas, do you or fasteddie do these types of installs or know who does? Feel free to PM me if you like. Thanks for the help.

Pat

Veggas, no problem, wearing my steel toes, I value your knowledge.

Sorry to jump in the middle... but on the 8000HD... I saw an earlier post that it had "dual-tuners" where it could tape to programs at the same time, while you were watching a third "pre-recorded" program.

The Dish and DirecTV receivers that I am familiar with that do this require two lines to be run from the main distribution box to the receiver... does the 8000HD require a single cable or a dual cable input?

Steve

No, it doesn't need two connections for the dual tuners. The only reason the sat based ones do is because not all of the channels run thru the cable. Only the odd or even transponders depending if the channel you are watching is on an odd or even transponder.

Originally posted by maxthesilent
Responses:
1. 7, that includes the theater which has the split for the modem and a SD TV in there.
2. 6 of them are used.
3. The cable access is on the side of the house, I was looking at it when the tech was out last time. The lines also seem to run through the attic and then drop to that box.
4. I don't remember how many were connected.

Veggas, do you or fasteddie do these types of installs or know who does? Feel free to PM me if you like. Thanks for the help.

Pat
Pat, and anyone else who wants to learn something about RF,

Seven outlets with six of them being used - ouch! I hope they're home run to the box on the side of the house. If not, it may be difficult to adjust the signal levels for specific outlets. Before I can give any advice, you may want to check out this web page with similar losses explained (http://www.swhowto.com/VideoLoss.htm)
It's the first thing that popped up on google that did a decent job explaining your type of situation (not endorsing them, but they did a great job explaining it on a webpage).
It would help to know what type of splitter(s) are being used to feed all those outlets, and maybe you could re-balance the signals so that non digital STB TV's and smaller sets have less signal than your HT and bigger sets and cable modem. Careful with any amps. Many just amplify the forward signal and the return is reduced even farther, resulting in your STB's not being able to send data back to the local Node for stable use.
The idea is that you could rebalance the signals so that sets with STB's or modems have the most signal strength. Other sets without a STB or smaller sets (< 20") can get by with far less signal strength and still have a decent perceived picture, or data return problems.

Here is an example that I have done. I split my main signal with a three way splitter. Leg one direct to HT, where it has a 4-way splits at that location for STB(s), TV, Replay, etc. This gives me the strongest signal to that area (~ -12 dB from source). Leg two, same strength as first leg, going to office area with 4 way split to Modem, STB, TV and Replay. Third leg goes to another 8 way splitter that feeds each of the bedrooms and other areas, but each outlet is direct to the TV or STB, with no additional splits (~ -15dB from source). The less you have to split the signal, the better the signal will be to all the outlets, but the trade-off is that you want TV in every room.

As far as doing these types of home installs, it has been several years for me to do it commercially. I still design buildings and systems, but my focus has been on hotel MATV systems the last half dozen years or so.
Basically you have a set amount of signal from the street. That signal loses something every time you add a connector, splitter, tap or device, not including losses in cable length, kinks, squashed cables, and bad fittings. Evaluate your home and consider if any outlets could stand to lose a bit of signal to increase it somewhere else. I gladly decreased a guest bedroom signal to give more to my HT room. You too, could do the same.

fasteddie, if you have anything to add, change or disagree, speakup. It sounds like we have similar backgrounds and another opinion is always better in the end. I'm sure his problem could be solved with a little knowledge and expertise and a possible service call if needed.

vegggas

More testing today. Filled up the drive with only about 24 hours of HD material! Interesting in that different shows took up different amounts of space.

1/2 hour CBS episodes used 3% drive space each (4) - Figure 6%/hour = 16.6 hours of recording space at this data rate

UFC on INHD 3 hours used 15% - Figure 5%/hour = 20 hours of recording space at this data rate

Peter Gabriel on INHD 2.5 hours took 12% space - Figure 4.8%/hour = 20.5 hours of recording space at this data rate

Butch and Sundance on INHD 2 hours used 8% - Figure 4%/hour = 25 hours of recording space at this data rate

Sopranos on HBO 1 hour used 3% space - Figure 3%/hour = 33.3 hours of recording space at this data rate

I will test blocks of HD from each channel to see if I can get some baseline data rates and recording estimates. For now, it looks like CBS is giving full data rates, while HBO has the least. Next update may not be until Thursday, and I may not get a chance to do any recording.

Cox San Diego has apparantly now released the HD DVR's and customers there can get them. I think that is the first Cox deployment of these boxes.

vegggas

veggas.........

Have you considered opening up the box and popping in a larger drive?

I think you said the 8000HD came with a 160?

Steve

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
veggas.........

Have you considered opening up the box and popping in a larger drive?

I think you said the 8000HD came with a 160?

Steve
No can do...
You can't purchase the box and it is owned by the cable co. Any tampering of the box would be illegal, and probably subject to fines. Older boxes (back in the day when I was bit more curious) had spring loaded covers that would trip the security pins that allow the box to operate, making it a paperweight. I'm sure these are a bit more high tech, but still have tamper evident equipment inside. Besides, as soon as firewire is known to be working, I can just go get a firewire drive and increase capacity that way.

vegggas

Yup, I forgot about the firewire....................

I am not sure why the cable company will not allow you to buy the receivers... probably financially related... I know I sort of forgot about my cable modem.... I was part of the original group here in Vegas... before I new it I had been renting the box for about 5 years... must have paid for it about 3 or 4 times by then... they finally contacted me when they wanted to retire the original modems... so I finally got around to purchasing one.

Forgot about the FireWire... hopefully there will be a way to plug in an external drive to increase capacity! Do you have any idea what type of operating system they are using...? Linux? I know Tivo uses Linux, but Replay has their own propreitary language.

Steve

Are you guys sure that the firewire port will EVER support a second drive. I'm sure the MPAA doesn't want that to happen. It would make it to easy to transfer to a computer.

Veggas, thanks for the detailed reply, very informative.

In other news, is called Cox today about the possibility of a waiting list for the HDPVR. The CSR said no, and they would put them out when the tests were done...around July 1.

Pat

Just a small correction. KLVX (PBS) has their transmitter on black Mt. next to KVVU. They are not on Arden Peak where KLAS and KTNV are located. And KVVU (FOX) uses 480p not 480i. And what's up with ch. 3 KVBC? Everytime I want to watch something in HD on that channel it's not. Even Leno was not in HD this week. Here we are in May sweeps, and ch. 3 can't get their HD to work.

hdtvxpert,
Are you sure about Fox using 480P? I don't bother watching them OTA, but when I did, everything was 480i. Shows filmed in 480P were not relayed in 480P or Fox "widescreen". It has not been their intention to transmit anything over standard broadcast quality until they move up to HD equipment. To do so would be redundant if they have to buy the gear twice. This was the situation for NBC last year. They had a digital signal, but it stayed 480i until they could get the HD equipment to process the incoming signals.
As for NBC, Leno was in Las Vegas this week at the Paris hotel. The cameras were all standard def from other facilities, and not the studio equipment they normally use.

lvthunder,
Firewire will be available on all cable machines next year. The upgrade path to store additional content for SA and other vendors is through external storage. The data stream is encoded and requires the original decoding device for playback. Software will see the drives as additional storage, but the data will not be usable if the box is not decoding it, so transferring it to a PC would not work.

Max,
I hope the release is not July. The last thing I heard was June 1st time frame. San Diego is using them already.

vegggas

Originally posted by hdtvxpert
Just a small correction. KLVX (PBS) has their transmitter on black Mt. next to KVVU. They are not on Arden Peak where KLAS and KTNV are located. And KVVU (FOX) uses 480p not 480i. And what's up with ch. 3 KVBC? Everytime I want to watch something in HD on that channel it's not. Even Leno was not in HD this week. Here we are in May sweeps, and ch. 3 can't get their HD to work.

NBC Channel 3 is the worst OTA channel we have by far. I've taped 3 HD shows on it so far. ER was decent..only had about 5 pixellation problems and audio dropouts. Las Vegas had a couple, but at the 30m mark it went from 16x9 to 4:3 with black bars on the side. It flipped back over again around the 50 minute mark. L&O SVU flipped from 16x9 to 4:3 w/bars at about the 15 minute mark and stayed that way the rest of the show.

Veggas.........

1. Is the DVI out on the Explorer 3250 currently operating?

2. If I set the box for 720p and normal while on an HD channel... and then switch to a different HD channel that cox is broadcasting in 1080i will the box automatically switch to the other format or will it convet the signal to 720p for ouput? Also, what happens when I change to a SD cable channel? Is the box upconverting the signal to 720p?

Thanks for your time.... see this is what happens when you become an expert!!

Steve

Steve,
I have an older TV without DVI, but I'm under the impression that the DVI out is enabled on the 3250HD (not the 8000HD). Anyone want to confirm that (NevadaJack?)
For output resolutions, I think it depends on your settings. If they are set to Auto DVI, it will use whatever it thinks your TV will support as the best resolution. If there is a way of selecting Native out with DVI, I suspect that will be the best output, because the TV will do the formatting instead of the box. The best signals are native to native. If you have a 720p set, the direct digital connection from a native 720P source should look the best. Everything else will have some conversion in the path.
FYI, Cox just retransmits the signals in their original form over a QAM carrier instead of an 8VSB carrier. They do not change any of the signals.

vegggas

Thanks Veggas..........

So I just need to find out which channels are transmitting which format....

You say the DVI is NOT enabled on the 8000HD???

Please say it is not so.... that would be a travesty!

As to the "Auto DVI" I have not run across that setting in the 3250...

Steve

ABC and ESPN are the only two 720P signals, all others are 1080i.
AFAIK, the DVI and 1394 ports, which are physically on the SA8000HD box, are not turned on yet. A future release is planned as they work out the copy protection bugs.
Auto DVI will only show up when a DVI connection is made to a compliant monitor connection.

vegggas

Veggas............

Thanks.... well I hooked up the DVI and was initially very bummed... all I got was a message saying that my TV was not HDCP compliant and I would have to use yPbPr to watch tv.

I doubled checked and sure enough my BenQ 8700+ is touted as HDCP compliant... well what gives! When I first hooked up the DVI cable the cable box was on a SD channel... i tried turning the box off then on after connecting the dvi cable and still got the message.

After posting my "whine" I went back and started playing again... this time I selected a known HD channel and then pushed the button on the projector for the DVI connection ("PC" on the 8700). Up came the image... so I guess the moral of the story is that the cable box will only use the DVI output for HD channels and not for SD channels>>> seems a little strange, but then nobody asked for my opinion.

Now for the "rest of the story..."

When using the DVI connection I have a grey vertical line at the outermost edge of the left and right hand sides of the screen.... and along the bottom of the screen a purple dashed line.... it is there on any channel with the DVI connection... when I switch back to yPbPr none of the lines are there???

Please "encourage" them to get the DVI working on the 8000HD!

Steve

I've got no pull at all to encourage anything. I just work and test a lot of similar stuff and have an interest in the technology. I have no idea about the lines in your image since I don't have the equipment to replicate the issue. Many others ARE using the DVI output without that problem though.
AFAIK, SA has not released a REAL version of software for full DVI support. Although DVI is active (more like not disabled), there are a lot of inconsistencies at this point with various products, cables and setups. DVI functionality is supposed to be available by cable co's in June or July of 2005.
Read back and PM some of the other users who are using the DVI connection if they don't step in soon. I wish I had DVI and firewire myself, but I'll probably wait another year or two and upgrade then.

vegggas
edit - Other than the lines, was the PQ improved at any point? 720P vs. 1080i?

v

Veggas.... thanks for the comments... let me know you you can squeeze in another beta tester...

When I plug in the DVI cable I no longer have control over what resolution the box is set to in "DVI Auto" .. the box picks the resolution... if I change it to fixed perhaps I can... switching channels I did see both 720p and 1080i. From what I can tell they both look better over DVI than they did component.

Herein lies another anomaly.... I was watching several HD channels with no problems... when I switch to a SD channel it says that my tv is not HDCP compliant and I should use yPbPr to watch tv... so I switch the projector to the component inputs and still the same message... it is as though whenever a DVI cable is plugged in the component output is completely disabled... when I first switched to a SD channel I had about 1 second of image before the message came on. I have both component cables and the DVI cable connected from the box to the projector.... I had been hoping to be able to A/B the connections with the same source over different inputs, but it does not appear that will work with the current firmware...

when I tried to change channels or settings on the cable box I found that the box had completely locked up and was unresponsive to the remote.... after several ignored commands the box when completely black and spent the next few minutes rebooting itself.

I called Tech support and the girl I spoke to said she had heard of other customers having exactly the same experience with the 3250. She had no idea what to do about it... but it is apparently a "known issue." She gave me the name of a person in Tech support to talk to tomorrow that apparently knows the 3250 quite well... so I will see what input I can get from him.

If anyone else has any knowledge or information on the subject ... please chime in!

Steve

I have a Hughes HTL, and it shows the incoming signal type. As for all DT signals in standard def, it reads 480p. I have talked with FOX 5's engineers and they confirmed the signal presently is 480p and yes they are not passing the FOX Hi-Res Widescreen as it's a dead format soon to be replaced with 720p in September. The same goes for the WB 21. I recently talked with their CE, and he told me their 1080i HD gear has been delivered and is being fitted as we speak. Look for some test signals off and on this summer with full HD late summer early fall.

For clarity, the signals are not 480P source materials as broadcast by the network. The signals are standard broadcast 480i sent as 480P digitally.

The upcoming upgrades to those two stations are good news, but they have been slow in coming. We will always welcome more HD content, even if it's only 3 -5 hours a week.

vegggas

FYI to Las Vegas valley residents:

Meetup.com has a local meeting of Las Vegas, NV home theater enthusiasts listed (albeit only 4 people including myself are listed):

http://homethea.meetup.com/

I will likely attend. Hopefully, I won't be the only one. :)

I would like to attend but I can't make evenings.

Maybe we can establish meetings on the weekend?

At any rate, it appears that the meeting listed at Meetup.com has been cancelled.

I would be interested in meeting other HT enthusiasts in the Vegas area--share ideas, trade/sell equipment, demo equipment etc. We'll see what the future holds.

Absolutely. It would be great to be able to buy/sell used equipment locally without resorting to using eBay. Demos would be very cool too.

Count me in--- I would also like to socialize with other HT enthusiasts in the Las Vegas area and talk shop.

Me Too............

Any word on Channel 8? I'm still having issues with the sound stuttering. Are you Zenith owner's still having your box reboot? I e-mailed the engineer there but never got a reply.

TheNatural, still having rebooting on my Zenith as of Thursday. Dont want to keep checking as everytime it reboots i have to redo my custom menu, a flaw with the Zenith520.

OTA stuff... i.e. plugged in my ancient Samsung OTA box in again...

I'm not having problems with the OTA CBS feed. Are you guys still having problems or are they fixed now?

Fox network broadcasted the Idol show in 16x9 tonight. Our local station does not yet have the receivers to pick up the higher resolution feeds. This means that while a good portion of the country was able to see the 16x9 improved(?) resolution show from the Kodak theater, we only saw the SD 4x3 feed.

USdtv on channel 99-1. I watched the promo screen for a while... That little repeating musical number could be used as a torture device. It now appears to be stuck in my head, worse than "It's a small world" at Disneyland. On a side note, the 12 window screens appear to be LIVE feeds, delayed a few seconds, but live feeds of actual programming.

From top left, it's ESPN (same as cox ch 30), ESPN2 (31), Disney (28)
2nd row Toon Disney (69) Food? (not synced) discovery (25)
3rd row TLC (33) DIY?( not synced) Lifetime (26)
Bottom row Lifetime Movie (308) Fox news (21) Starz graphic

Still wouldn't want it...

vegggas

Had two calls in to channel 8 with no call back. But as of this morning the problem maybe fixed.

I checked channel 8 last night and it looked fine. Maybe they fixed it.

Anyone else get a varying signal strength for channel 11 PBS. It's the only channel this happens to me on.

Looks like channel 8 is good, I was able to watch CSI with no issues.

Any news? It is starting to look like July was right.....


Originally posted by vegggas
Max,
I hope the release is not July. The last thing I heard was June 1st time frame. San Diego is using them already.

vegggas

Originally posted by Tallen234
Any news? It is starting to look like July was right.....

Why do I get the feeling that we'll all be saying "Well, it's October. Any news on when the HD PVR is coming out". This is getting beyond frustrating. I've been patient long enough. I'm this close to dropping Cox and buying the HD Tivo and going to D* full time. I only get it for NFL Sunday Ticket now.

Anybody using the 3250's DVI connection?

When I first connected up the DVI a couple of weeks ago I kept getting the message that my TV was not HDCP compatible... and I should switch to the YpBpR connection. Well I would switch over to the component in, but the message would still be there.

I found that if I was tuned to an HD channel then the DVI worked fine, but if I switched to a SD channel then I got the error message... if I then switched back to the HD channel the error message would stay there until I would turn off the dvi connection and then turn it back on.

I spoke to a very helpful man at Cox who pushed out some software to my box that fixed the problem.. after the update I could switch to either SD or HD channels and they all came over the DVI connection just fine.

Well the DVI cable I had was too short, so I sent it back and got the longer version........ now that I hook up the longer cable I am right back to where I started..........

HD channels work fine over DVI no matter what format I have selected. If I have "Auto DVI" selected then it works as above... HD channels work fine over DVI, but if I switch to an SD channel then I get the message that my TV is not HDCP compatible.. (of course it is). If I switch to component in's then the message is still there... I have to switch my DVI switcher to another input and then magically the component input starts working.

However, if I switch the format to "fixed" then I can view HD channels or SD channels just fine over the DVI connection.... seems pretty strange to me.

I was under the impression that with the DVI cable connected that the best setting to use was the Auto DVI..., it did seem to work just fine a couple of weeks ago..., but now with the new cable it does not seem to be working as I expected.

The only difference in the cables (besides the extra 10 feet) is that the new one is a "dual link" cable instead of a single link that the first one was... the dual link should actually be a better quality cable so it seems really strange to me.

vegggas if you are out there... who is the DVI guru over at Cox and how can I get back in touch with him?

Thanks,

Steve

I have been testing and using the 8000HD DVR for a while now. Unfortunately, I found a few problems and they have been getting beta patches to fix those problems. This may have delayed the launch a bit, but you do want working products, right? Sorry.
I heard San Diego released the DVR too soon. They were getting a lot of service problems related to the beta software release that was not supposed to be released to the public. I'm sure they don't want to repeat that here in Vegas.
MOST of the issues are fixed, and we are several software versions ahead of most of the country. One of the big issues left is still usability. This is still just a DVR, and not a PVR. There is a difference, but they are getting closer to a more friendly interface. The more I use it, the more I like it.
If this is not released by midweek next week or earlier, I would be surprised. I would consider having an "open house" for anyone wanting to check it out, if anyone would be interested.

vegggas

vegggas if you are out there... who is the DVI guru over at Cox and how can I get back in touch with him?

Sorry, I don't know who the DVI guru is over at Cox. I'm one of the early adopters without a DVI connection to do any testing.
Based on your explanation, does the original cable still work?
I would be careful of the DVI switcher too. The whole point of HDCP over DVI is that you can't separate the signal going to a secured device and pull the content to another passive device to circumvent the copy flags. Each device in a DVI chain would also decrease the available signal getting back and forth, so that could also pose a problem. With just a single switch, you have now connected three different links to the HDCP path and any degradation could cause failure in the handshake.

ve666as
-this was post 666, on the eve of a full moon-
Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil by the pale moonlight?

Veggas....

Normal cable only works if I switch the DVI switcher to another input other than the one connected to the cable box. This is a Gefen switcher that IS HDCP compatible also. If I switch to any other input on the switcher then the S-video connection that I have from the cable box to my Replay to my Denon ... then component out to the projector works fine...

However the confusing part is that if I select "Fixed" as the picture format in the selections menu then you can access all HD and SD channels and output them over DVI with no problems... I only have the problem when I select Auto DVI.

Steve

Veggas........ I thought you worked for Cox........??

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Veggas....

Normal cable only works if I switch the DVI switcher to another input other than the one connected to the cable box. This is a Gefen switcher that IS HDCP compatible also. If I switch to any other input on the switcher then the S-video connection that I have from the cable box to my Replay to my Denon ... then component out to the projector works fine...
I don't know too much about DVI, but here's another guess. If your HDCP compliant switcher is somehow accepting and returning the HDCP handshake, then the 3250 is forced to turn off the other outputs. When the DVI is connected to an active port, the down-converted outputs are disabled. I suspect that if the cable is connected directly to the display device, and then you switch inputs on the display, it will effectively turn off the DVI and enable the other outputs.


However the confusing part is that if I select "Fixed" as the picture format in the selections menu then you can access all HD and SD channels and output them over DVI with no problems... I only have the problem when I select Auto DVI.

Steve

Veggas........ I thought you worked for Cox........??
Auto DVI works best with NATIVE resolutions. Maybe the DVI is not sensing it can handle 480i sources as native 480i without converting it to 480p??? A fixed output would suggest that all resolutions are fixed and forced to a certain resolution that your display device will adapt to.
I work for a VOD integrator and provider with customers all around the country and the Bahamas.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas

If this is not released by midweek next week or earlier, I would be surprised. I would consider having an "open house" for anyone wanting to check it out, if anyone would be interested.

vegggas

Name the time and place and I'll be there. As long as it's on the weekend, that is. :)

Originally posted by bruin95
Name the time and place and I'll be there. As long as it's on the weekend, that is. :)

Me too! Let me know if this happens!

Pat

Hey Vegggas, what is the DVR vs. PVR difference?

Originally posted by pbykowski
Hey Vegggas, what is the DVR vs. PVR difference?
Opinions and not factual definitions
A PVR is a Personal Video Recorder able to record a personalized version of recording based on your settings and taste. Offers a higher level of personalization to customize your viewing habits.
A DVR is a Digital Video Recorder similar to a VCR, but is able to record digitally instead of on tape. Features are similar to what a VCR would have, and it's primary purpose is to time shift programs.

If I were to try to set something up for an "open house" hands on 8000HD-DVR demo this Saturday afternoon, how many people would likely attend? Location would be near I-15 and Blue Diamond in the SouthWest part of the Valley.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas


If I were to try to set something up for an "open house" hands on 8000HD-DVR demo this Saturday afternoon, how many people would likely attend? Location would be near I-15 and Blue Diamond in the SouthWest part of the Valley.

vegggas

Count me in.

Originally posted by vegggas
If I were to try to set something up for an "open house" hands on 8000HD-DVR demo this Saturday afternoon, how many people would likely attend? Location would be near I-15 and Blue Diamond in the SouthWest part of the Valley.

vegggas [/B]

Hey vegggas,

What are your cross-streets? Sounds like you live near me. I might be interested in dropping by Saturday afternoon, if my schedule permits...

Originally posted by vegggas

If I were to try to set something up for an "open house" hands on 8000HD-DVR demo this Saturday afternoon, how many people would likely attend? Location would be near I-15 and Blue Diamond in the SouthWest part of the Valley.

vegggas

I could make that. I'm not too far from there.

Pat

Bad news.
It looks like I'm working tomorrow and won't be able to do a demo. I'll still see what I can setup after that, if time permits.

vegggas

Just got my new Cox HD installed today to my Hitachi.

I am both impressed and unimpressed at the same time. First I am impressed on how capable my Hitachi 51s500 is in displaying a great picture that, to me, looks every bit as good as my friends DLP in HD material (my SD stuff blows his away). WOW!

Now onto the Cox HD. Just only after about 8 hours of watching so far, I am really dissapointed. I was enticed by the 'special' they are offering until 6/13. The one at the website where they offer free install (wow, a cable hookup and phonce call activation), and $2.00 starz. My cable bill apparently is going to go from $82.00 to $95. This mostly because for 7 or so HD channels, you are required to upgrade to digital cable first. After the 2 month special expires they told me my bill will be about $115! Thirty Three dollar Increase from just ole regular cable (+ Internet) for minimal content. Isn't Voom $40 a month with free install??

Screw that. That is so un economical. The HD channels are too few to pay that much premium over regualr cable. So what I have digital now and its 200+ channels. I am mainly interested in HD content only as digital cable still looks like regular SD to me and 90% of it is fluff/bogus content I have no desire to watch anyways.

CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS ESPN, INHD1, INHD2, StarZ and PADRE are my HD channels with DISCOVERYHD an additional $5 per month (that is so BS, $30 increase per month on my bill and i have to pay another small fee for one more HD channel?). {I must say the baseball games on PAD look incredible. The best HD of the bunch.}

Of those, OTA has the first 4, which are locals, + Fox and WB and I THINK TNT. OTA I would be missing ESPNHD, INHD1/2 and PAD Plus DISCOVERHD but gain Fox/wb/tnt. Not counting the movie HD's as they are another add on after my special (jesus)

At a $30 per month increase I could have a top HD Tuner paid for itself in less than a year and then be on a freeroll from there.

Unless Cox starts to add more HD content SOON (ESPECIALLY Fox), it is a no-brainer for me to cancel when my special is up. I feel like I am paying way too much for so little actual HD content. The technician did say Fox was coming along with other stuff over the summer, but they are probably told to say that. Plus What else could they add besides the missing locals anyways (WB/Fox/TNT)?

The main thing I would miss by going to OTA would be ESPNHD. And that would be just a little miss only for the ONE NFL game a week espn has and NFL Countdown. But for the amount of money Cox is charging for so little HD content, I would quickly get over it. (InHD looks promising)

my .02

I believe you can downgrade the digital channels to whats called a digital gateway. This is basically the analog channel line up and the OTA HD channels. Not sure how much this will save you, maybe $20, but worth a look. I think COX has to pay ESPN so they have to pass it on to the customers.

Scottn1,
You must be new around here. First, Cox passes ALL local HD content available. There are NO FOX, or WB, HD signals. let me repeat that again
There are NO FOX, or WB, HD signals.
They are only broadcasting SD signals right now and have been that way for several years. Hell, it's not even ED signals, just plain old SD as it comes from the analog source. There are plans by those stations to upgrade their equipment in the future, but until they do, they pass only 480 4x3 SD signals. There is also NO TNT available from OTA sources.
Cox Digital channels are still an SD signal, they are just transmitted in digital format to prevent signal ingress and have lower losses. The only improved signals are the HD signals in the 700 range.
You do not "have" to pay more for LOCAL programming in HD. Just rent the receiver and they have to let you have it. You are paying additional fees to get onto and use the digital network to get your INHD's, ESPN and movies in HD along with your program guide and other two way services. If you are a digital subscriber with any level of service and HD rental, they GIVE you INHD1, INHD2, ESPN, PADRE and locals free. If you don't want those services, don't get them and be happy with just your locals in HD. You can even drop down to "basic" service for about $9 a month and add the local HD with a rental box that comes to only about $20 a month, or possibly get just basic and use your integrated QAM tuner inside the TV to pull those feeds from cable.
I'm still testing the HD-DVR and it will be available soon. Those that are on the email waiting list should get an email next week to get the box. The rest of the customers should get notifications soon after, or by the end of June. SA equipment is not the greatest, but it is not bad. The rental price is MUCH easier on the wallet than shelling out $1000 up front and paying monthly fees on top of that to get a TivoHd DVR. If you want Voom or USDTV, good luck. They all still require an antenna to pick up HD locals, which are all on Cox anyway. Beware of what happens to the equipment and prices if you decide to come back to cable or drop their service - Read the fine print on commitment and price changes VERY thoroughly. OTA reception can be spotty here in Vegas, depending on where you live.

I think we are fortunate to have the HD services we do have here. Our biggest pitfall is that the local broadcasters are not all in HD, and even NBC did not have HD until a few months ago. The amount of HD available over Cox is comparable or more than many other markets or services available today, or for over the past year. We get 9 non-local cable HD channels plus 4 local HD channels, from ONE single source. That is impressive in any market.

vegggas

If you have a QAM tuner, you can get the following HD signals for free via Cox over coax: NBC, CBS, PBS, ABC.

My Mits has the tuner, so I dont pay an extra dime and I get free HD locals from Cox. More reliable than OTA too.

BTW Vegggas, any word on Cox supporting cablecard? I saw it on the new 2004-2005 lineup of Mits HD RPTVs (xx515s), and since I might be in the market for a new TV soon, I'd thought I'd see if Cox supports it.

I sypathise with you Scottn1, but as veggas said you can drop all the digital stuff (even the digital gateway), but you will lose all of the HD channels except the local ones. You will also lose the program guide (which I personally didn't like anyways) and access to VOD and PPV. Since I feel I pay enough for TV I never use these either. I have to get my HD locals via Cox because I can't get them OTA. I have basic cable, a cablemodem, and the HD box and I still pay $80 a month. As far as the SA equipment goes I think it's garbage campared to the directv stuff. Sure with Directv you have to pay for the equipment up front, but I would rather pay for something all up front then pay for it month by month. As for the monthly fees since I already have one TiVo the only monthly fee will be the mirroring fee, but I'll be retireing my Sony HD100 so the bill will be the same, but there is the same mirroring fee with Cox if you want all the digital channels in more than one room.

Take this for what it's worth.

Don't they have to support cablecard? I think they do it's probibly just a matter of when.

Originally posted by doormat
BTW Vegggas, any word on Cox supporting cablecard? I saw it on the new 2004-2005 lineup of Mits HD RPTVs (xx515s), and since I might be in the market for a new TV soon, I'd thought I'd see if Cox supports it.
Of course! Who do you think supplied all the cablecards and Headend support for Comdex, CES, and NAB?:D
I think "official" support is July 1st, but the equipment has been here for a long time. Since there are very few products out there right now, support will be spotty and there will be a learning curve by all parties involved. If someone DOES HAVE a cablecard equipped device, let Cox know, they will be looking for as many different types of equipment as possible to work out any bugs. Remember, the cable card is just a Conditional Access Module. Cox will use and rent the ones from SA and Pioneer but they only allow decryption of preprogrammed frequncies. All signal tuning, manipulation and viewing will be done by the consumer equipment
I have worked with the engineers from Panasonic and they have a working prototype of two way services with cablecard, but it will not be available for a while. I'm working with them to get cablecard service integrated with their commercial plasmas. They are going to use a slot type of upgradeability, where you can swap out the tuner type or CAM module as needed and leave the Plasma and glass as a generic unit. Since Panasonic has a working model, and the final requirements have not been determined, Panasonic will have to wait and make adjustments if needed before going into production.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas

I'm still testing the HD-DVR and it will be available soon. Those that are on the email waiting list should get an email next week to get the box. The rest of the customers should get notifications soon after, or by the end of June. [/B]

Not to sound ignorant, but how do you get on this e-mail waiting list? I didn't even know it existed!! There is NOTHING on the Cox site that even mentions the HD DVR, let alone an e-mail waiting list. Does this mean that since I'm not on this list I'm going to have to wait even LONGER to get this?

Thanks for the clarification and responses guys. Sorry to appear that I was bit..ing. I AM happy with the Cox HD stuff but just was unhappy with the large increase expected after the special is up (now have alternative options from the responses!) and with the small amount of HD content. But maybe I was just getting blinded by the infomercials of Voom promising 30+ HD channels and here I was getting nine with one of them an almost 'demo' channel of sorts after hours.

I also was mistaken regarding Fox/Wb/TNT (maybe it was TBS?). I jsut got that assumption from looking up antennaweb and seeing those three available as 'locals'. I wasn't aware they were still broadcasting in SD anyways (then why listed as HD at antennaweb??).

I will enjoy my special for now and weigh my options when it is up. I am sure by then, with football season starting and hopefully Fox in HD I will be sticking around. Better than having to climb up in this heat to mount an antenna on the roof and in return loosing ESPN and InHD.

Did I mention how good the Padre's games look on Cox HD? To bad I am a SF/Cincy/Cubs fan...

Thanks guys for the warm welcome.

Scott

Scott: They do show up on antenna web because they do broadcast digital, just not HD. See http://hometheater.about.com/cs/beforeyoubuy/a/aahdtvfaqs2a.htm

Vegggas: Excellent news, will it be a rental thing? Will I rent a card or do you buy them, whats the deal. Its good to know you guys are on the ball with that... I cant wait for this years Mits line... firewire, HDMI and cablecard, its all there.

Originally posted by bruin95
Not to sound ignorant, but how do you get on this e-mail waiting list? I didn't even know it existed!! There is NOTHING on the Cox site that even mentions the HD DVR, let alone an e-mail waiting list. Does this mean that since I'm not on this list I'm going to have to wait even LONGER to get this?
I'm on the list because of business partnerships between our two companies for technical reasons. Customers can sometimes get information when talking to a CSR and asking to be put on the waiting list when a specific product is available. If you've been calling Cox and asking about the HD DVR, they may have asked you what your email is so that when it's available, they will notify you. Remember that they will look at your account and see if you already meet the criteria to get the new product first. If you are just a basic subscriber without the needed services, you wouldn't be asked. Most likely the users being notified will be HD subscribers with the SD DVR already, who are waiting for the combined unit.

Originally posted by doormat
Vegggas: Excellent news, will it be a rental thing? Will I rent a card or do you buy them, whats the deal. Its good to know you guys are on the ball with that... I cant wait for this years Mits line... firewire, HDMI and cablecard, its all there.
AFAIK the Cablecard, which looks like a laptop PCMCIA card will be a low priced rental fee. Just like a cable STB, it will need the software from a specific Headend to operate and is useless anywhere else. All it does is allow your tuner to show the channel and allow decryption. I have not tested any of these devices, because I primarily test commercial displays that do not have this technology yet, nor do I have a newer style set at home.

vegggas

Can someone recommend a good antenna for receiving local OTA HD channels?

I live around Buffalo and Desert Inn, the west side of town.

I recently tried a Terk HDTVI antenna placed in my attic and it sucked.

Thanks.

I tried the attic but had problems. I just stuck a regular old UHF VHF antenna in the yard and now after a little trouble with PBS get great reception.

Anyone else getting motion artifacts on the PADRE channel? For some strange reason I only get them watching baseball on PADRE (708 I think). All my other Cox HD's don't have it at all.

I have a SA 3250HD box and it pixelates sometimes and then seems to lock up. I have a friend that has the SA 3100HD box but he does not have this problem. Is it my signal or my receiver?

scottn1 - no motion artifacts that I notice. I think Padres HD is awesome, great picture.

artvegas - I had the same problem with picture breakup on digital and HD channels. Cox came over and changed the box out and reconfigured my outside wiring by putting my HD and digital boxes and cable internet connection on one node, and putting my other two TVs with direct cable on another node. Haven't had a problem since.

Hey Vegggas,

Any new word on Cox adding the rest of the SD locals to the digital line-up (like 123 NBC D)? Any other programming changes that you've heard about?

Also, according to the new radio spots, Cox is promising a rate freeze thru 2006! That's good news!!

Originally posted by Demodave
Hey Vegggas,

Any new word on Cox adding the rest of the SD locals to the digital line-up (like 123 NBC D)? Any other programming changes that you've heard about?

Also, according to the new radio spots, Cox is promising a rate freeze thru 2006! That's good news!!

No word on digital lineup. Possibly stonewalled for now due to carriage agreements???
Channel 123 is actually a different digital feed from KVBC than the analog SD 3 or HD 733. That's the reason you don't see Leno on that channel. KVBC is providing the digital feed and they control the content. Not sure how the agreement is between the two to carry all three chanels, but at least NBC is doing it right. If ABC, CBS, Fox and WB provide digital feeds of alternate channel programming, they should be carried by Cox, assuming digital agreements are in place. But Thats Just My Humble Opinon.
The Fox affiliate should be upgrading to a new digital splicer. The splicer would allow multiple compressed feeds to the affiliate (see fox thread) instead of a single feed that is converted multiple times locally. It would be great if Fox would provide all their digital feeds to Cox for NFL season and beyond, but that's a slim chance.
I also head about the upcoming rate freeze later this year, and that's good. With the addition of more HD and now DVR, it's looking better and better. The downside is that with a rate freeze, Cox may be slower when adding new HD features, or wait longer to get new HD channels, sort of the way Comcast has been in the past (waiting until prices are lowered before getting Discovery HD, ESPN, Etc.)

Anyone get an email for the HD DVR yet??? I guess not, since no one posted...

vegggas

Nope. I called and spoke to a CSR who took down my name and phone number and said she would call when she heard something, but she didn't know anything about the email list. She did know that they were beta testing it and heard positive things about it.




Originally posted by vegggas

Anyone get an email for the HD DVR yet??? I guess not, since no one posted...

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas

I also head about the upcoming rate freeze later this year, and that's good. With the addition of more HD and now DVR, it's looking better and better. The downside is that with a rate freeze, Cox may be slower when adding new HD features, or wait longer to get new HD channels, sort of the way Comcast has been in the past (waiting until prices are lowered before getting Discovery HD, ESPN, Etc.)




Either that or they will create an additional HD tier like Directv did. There are always ways around a rate freeze.

Just received an email to order the DVR for HD. Will be available in July but as a special customer I can have it now and you can order on the web. Either make the swap of your current HD box for the new one or pay $39.95 for install.

I read the site quickly but is it an even swap with no addtional fees..the 3250 for the 8000HD?????

New to the DVR thing and have not really thought about it that much...but if I get the recorder box for my old 3250HD box...sounds like a good deal.

It is an additional 9.99 a month to what you presently have. There is an asterick on the site which states that the 9.99 per month fee for the DVR does not include the converter and remote rental fee we are already paying. I still think it's a good deal since we don't have to buy the unit and from my understanding a regular (non HD) TIVO charges the same price monthly and you do have to buy the unit.

I spoke with a CSR who said that they have no info other than what is on the web site but she did confirm that the 9.99 was in addition to my current monthly charges and I would have to turn in my 3250 box. She said she "thought" they were available for pickup now, but couldn't confirm that.

Keith

Hey guys, do you have a link to the HD DVR page?

Originally posted by NevadaJack
Just received an email to order the DVR for HD. Will be available in July but as a special customer I can have it now and you can order on the web. Either make the swap of your current HD box for the new one or pay $39.95 for install.

I read the site quickly but is it an even swap with no addtional fees..the 3250 for the 8000HD?????

New to the DVR thing and have not really thought about it that much...but if I get the recorder box for my old 3250HD box...sounds like a good deal.

Can't find the webpage.. Anyone care to post the link?

Are you sure about having to pay $39.95 for install of the second box? There should be a "self install" option available if you know how to hook it up.

One WARNING if you swap out the 3250HD with the 8000HD. As of RIGHT NOW, there is no simultaneous output from the HD and SD outputs. To use SD S-video outputs, you must set the box to output 480i video. The simultaneous SD stream is being used for the built-in PIP and archive to VCR functions. You can watch the second PIP stream (downres'd to an SD window and out the SD outputs), or stream a secondary, pre-recorded stream out the SD VCR archive jacks. The main tuner will not play out the SD jacks unless you set the output to SD.
SA is looking into this as many would rather have simultaneous output, rather than dual outputs - Go figure. I used to use the s-video out for my scaler for SD content, but had to give it up. Weak analog stations may look worse through component, where your TV will not make adjustments than through s-video, where the TV can automatically do it's own scaling.

AFAIK, pricing is the same for the box, but the "DVR service" is $9.95. Similar to non-subsidized Tivo and Replay monthly service fees.

If you've never used a DVR, it will be hard to go back to live viewing once you do.:D

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
Can't find the webpage.. Anyone care to post the link?

Are you sure about having to pay $39.95 for install of the second box? There should be a "self install" option available if you know how to hook it up.


vegggas

vegggas-yes you can forgo the $40 install if you want to do it yourself....

jb

Web page is at: http://www.cox.com/lasvegas/digitalcable/hddvr.asp

Originally posted by jb1219
vegggas-yes you can forgo the $40 install if you want to do it yourself....

jb
With the supplied link, I was able to confirm that self installation is still available as well as paid installation. I was just concerned that they were going back on to their mandatory installation model from a few years ago when they first offered HD.

Going through the website, I still can't browse to the order page, but the supplied link takes you there directly. Is that what you guys are getting in your email?

vegggas
**EDIT** Just got the email from Cox with the link. It must have been delayed through the spam filters or something. I was starting to feel left out for a moment...
v

I also got the e-mail. I chose the self install option. I guess we'll have to wait until they contact us again to go pick one up. Maybe this weekend?

I spoke with CSR last night and she checked with her supervisor. She told me to bring the 3250 along with a copy of the email and they would make the swap and also to request a one month credit of $9.95 for using the pre-release offer. She confirmed the addtional charge of $9.95 for the service.

Does the 8000 have a DVI output and component outputs like the 3250? I know absolutely nothing about DVR's but am tempted to jump on this one. Just want to be sure the hookup is simple and quality will not suffer.

Jack

The 8000HD has all the same outputs as the 3250HD, but the DVI will NOT be turned on yet. SA is waiting until September or October to release the patch that will enable the DVI. Firewire activation will either happen at the same time or follow a few months after that.
If you are using component outputs, it will be hooked up exactly the same way as the 3250.
The good news is that you don't need to know anything about DVR's to operate this thing. It is integrated into the guide. If you have ever used the guide to select a channel, or to see what is on in the next day, etc. you can operate the DVR. It is really easy to use.

vegggas

Vegggas:

Based on your warning about simultaneous SD and HD output it sounds like I will not be able to use my TIVO for SD recordings and the SA 8000HD for HD recordings.

Is that correct or is there some workaround. I really don't want to give up all the advantages of a TIVO for SD recording. I currently have the SA 3100HD.

Just got back from the Cox office (Rancho). I brought my 3250 in to swap for the 8000HD. I told the CSR that I had received an email and also confirmed by phone that the boxes would be available for pickup. She apologized and said that the email was in error and that the boxes would not be available until "sometimes in July". I insisted that the website link and my followup phone call of yesterday indicated otherwise-I even showed her a printout of the link from the web (which she did not want to look at). She just repeated that this was an error and apologized again. I then asked her if the 8000HD boxes would be available on Thursday, July 1st, and she said she had no idea when they would be available but it SHOULD be sometimes in July.

I guess I could have asked to speak with a supervisor, but I had already wasted considerable time from a workday, and didn't feel like going through that routine again.

Keith

Edit 1:00 PM: After reading Tallen's and Vegggas's posts, I called Cox CSR who referred me to the "help line", and spoke with someone who was at the Rancho office. They told me to come back in and pick up the HDPVR. Apparently, all of the local CSR's were not informed this morning that some of the HD units were to be released today. Anyway, I went back and went right back to the counter, and the CSR that I got this time said "no problem-they are available". I didn't even have to show copy of email or anything. I guess I should have just asked for a supervisor on my first visit, but I was really rushed for time....

Keith, I really hate to do this to you....but I went to the Rancho Cox office about 9:30 and received a 8000HD. The first rep I saw was not aware of it. I told her there was an email (although I didn't receive it), for selective cox subscribers. Someone standing right behind her said to her that, it was true and that they had the 8000hd's in someone's office. According to this new lady (she may have been a supervisor), they had already released 60 units (and they are going to get a total of 8000 units). It took the CSR a bit of time to make sure all of my info was entered into the computer. But I did walk out with a brand new 8000HD that was still in the box. I can't wait to get home to set it up.

Originally posted by OrangeKid
Vegggas:

Based on your warning about simultaneous SD and HD output it sounds like I will not be able to use my TIVO for SD recordings and the SA 8000HD for HD recordings.

Is that correct or is there some workaround. I really don't want to give up all the advantages of a TIVO for SD recording. I currently have the SA 3100HD.
I still use my Replay for ANALOG recordings with the cable plugged directly into the RF input. I can't use the Replay to record the digital channel signals, but the 8000DVR records the original Digital data stream, so it's much better than a conversion to analog and then back to mpeg in the Replay or Tivo units (yes, I tried). The Replay has become my analog backup, but I watch everything on the the 8000HD now. The analog channels below 99 are the softest, but If I only tend to record the local channels and I use the digital HD feeds, the signal looks great.

Keith,
The boxes ARE available. You got a CSR with a case of the "ignorants". I would take a copy of the email printed out and hand it to them. Since the email was just deployed yesterday, not everyone knows about the early release conditions.

vegggas

Vegggas,

Have you done a comprehensive review/guide of the 8000HD (similar to your excellent 3250 guide)?

I just picked up mine today!

:D :D :D :D

I'm not allowed to post any specific information until the product is released in our market (July). I have been commenting in The TWC 8000HD thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352604) which is getting detailed information. I have been beta testing the software versions that others are just now getting, and the build process has been moving steadily forward. Most of the comments with new software from June, typically apply to our system.
At this time, I believe that there is only a single patch that we do not have that SA has released to another market (patch 10). I think this is more of a compatibility patch rather than a functional patch, so it is not critical. All those features that people have been complaining about, have been available here for a while.
I'm considering a guide and have a lot of notes, but most of the problems have been fixed and most details have been covered in the other thread. Still, if there is a need, I would start a thread based on Sara and Cox and the feature set SA uses here.

vegggas

Well, I did get the 8000HD. However, after about a 45 minute call to Cox service trying to get it to authorize, they were unable to. Box boots up OK, levels all pretty good (-3db), but would not authorize no matter what. No service calls available until Sunday. So at this time I am really thinking of just taking this thing back till they get the kinks worked out. I am going to try another call in to see if I can get someone else that has the know how to authorize the box. I can't see what good a service call will do anyway.

If you are thinking about picking up this box this weekend and have some HD (or digital) programming that you really want to watch, you may want to think again. It doesn't seem like Cox has their act together on this yet....

Keith

Keith,
You are just having no luck whatsoever today!
The box authorization should be the same as any other digital box. Were they able to see the box from their location? Did the person understand that this was an HD-DVR?
I'm hearing that these things are flying out the door in high numbers. Hope things work out better for you.

vegggas

Just got off the phone with Cox service. Was ABLE to get it authorized after a 5 minute call. This CSR knew what she was doing.

Evidently the last CSR had me disconnect the box everytime she sent an authorization code (hit) to the box. This is why I was on the phone over 45 minutes or so - we tried many times. I found this odd, but didn't really think much of it since maybe the PVR's authorized differently from the regular settop boxes. She told me it may be that it would take a few hours for it to authorize, and to keep trying.

Well after two hours, I then decided to just call in for service and got a different person. She authorized it by doing a reset when the box was ON, and it authorized up the first time. I had double checked the serial #'s prior but they were correct. She said she did nothing else but hit the box while it was plugged in, and really couldn't tell me why that wasn't done in the first place.

So, I guess as a final advice to anyone contemplating getting the HDPVR:

1) If you do go down to pick one up and you get a CSR who says it's not available, do not give up-ask to speak to a supervisor.

2) If you get it home, it will most likely take a call to customer service to get it authorized, and make sure that the service person resets and hits the box after initial boot-up (which will take a little time, downloading software I would imagine) with the box ON and plugged in to the electrical outlet and the cable.

By the way for those interested the software version on my box is dated June 23, 2004.

I guess I just had a bad run of luck with CSR's today, but everything seems to have worked out. I will NOT be doing any gambling tonight!!!!

Keith

I had the same problem. But I called back and talk to a different tech. They told me that they have to send a signal to it not reset. So If anyone has this problem have them send a signal.

Just a quick clarification. The second CSR did "hit" the box (which did cause the box to reset and then authorize). I guess the point I was trying to make was that the box had to be plugged in when the "hit" (reset, or whatever you want to call it) was done. So if you do call in and have difficulty getting the box authorized, just recall and hopefully you will get someone who know's what they are doing....

Keith

Page 14 of the manual for the 8000HD that came with the box refers to picture format setup option accessed by pressing settings twice. This options allows one to choose either fixed, pass-through, or upconverted picture formats. However, this options is not listed as one of the setup options in the menu on my box. Is it there for anyone else? I would like to set it to pass-through.

I noticed after the last software update, the Format option was missing. I notified Cox about it, and they said it was still supposed to be there. They are looking into it, but it will probably come back once they get the newest patch version (a10).
It may have been removed by SA because the auto format was reverting back to 480P at one point, and staying there, just like the 3250's. Until Cox sends a patch to correct this, setup the box as normal with whatever outputs you want, and then toggle them in the first "settings" output control. We only have two 720P sources, and the box does a decent job of upconverting to 1080i, so I leave mine on 1080i. If you are using a non-native 1080i capable source, such as all Plasmas, DLP's or LCD's, you may want to use the 720P output. Your display milage will vary.

vegggas

Just another tip for everyone-- it appears I was given the remote control for the non-DVR HD box as it does not have a LIST button on it so I can't watch my recorded shows :-(. My guess is the rep at the customer service center just grabbed a standard HD setup package which included the other remote so if you go down to pick up an 8000YD, make sure you get the correct remote.

Veggas............

I believe you mentioned that the DVI won't be functional for a couple of months...

I also use a Replay unit and I would like to be able to have the S-video going to the Replay and the component out to the projector and have them both "hot." Any word on how long it will be before this will or might be possible?

After the last update on my 3250 box... if I set the output to Auto DVI then I can ONLY output HD channels over my DVI connection...... if I set it to fixed then I can output both HD channels and SD channels over the DVI connection... not sure why it works this way. I have set my output to Upcovert-2 as my projector is native 720p. This seems to work well for me.. although I have noticed the picture is a little "softer" when a 1080i station is converted over to 720p.

Steve

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Veggas............

I believe you mentioned that the DVI won't be functional for a couple of months...
I also use a Replay unit and I would like to be able to have the S-video going to the Replay and the component out to the projector and have them both "hot." Any word on how long it will be before this will or might be possible?

DVI will not be released by SA until September or October. The video streams are separated into Main and PIP outputs. SA has been notified that some users want dual outputs of the same signal INSTEAD of dual outputs of different signals as it is now. They have to re-engineer the outputs to do this and it will take some time.
As I mentioned before, I hardly ever use my Replay units anymore. The ONLY benefit I can find is when you want to record an ANALOG only channel, like comedy or WB, or UPN where there is no digital version. On those channels, I use the Replay's internal tuner anyway, because the 8000 will encode the Analog to a digital mpeg stream. For anything Digital, I use the 8000, because it will record the EXACT digital signal coming down the line with NO loss in PQ.
Let me repeat that.
There is NO loss in PQ, recording Digital on the 8000.
If you still want to convert the signal from the original Digital, to Analog, send it to the Replay, convert it back to Digital for recording, then convert it back again to Analog for viewing, you WILL have degradation and loss of signal.
If you still want to do this anyway and test the outputs, record the original Digital stream of a program. When the recording is done, use the "Archive to VCR" function to send the down-converted digital to analog signal to your Replay. The Replay will need to be setup to do a manual recording. In my testing, I saw no benefits of using the Replay (and I'm a strong believer in Replay), other than being able to jump ahead to a specific time in a long program, like a Padres game that I only half watched before.

There is a good thing about the Archive and PIP option instead of a mirrored output. It's that you can send a completely separate signal to another TV, while still watching whatever you want on the main output.


Originally posted by HiHoStevo

After the last update on my 3250 box... if I set the output to Auto DVI then I can ONLY output HD channels over my DVI connection...... if I set it to fixed then I can output both HD channels and SD channels over the DVI connection... not sure why it works this way. I have set my output to Upcovert-2 as my projector is native 720p. This seems to work well for me.. although I have noticed the picture is a little "softer" when a 1080i station is converted over to 720p.
Steve
Not sure why you can't view SD over DVI, unless the Auto function is trying to send a non-native signal to the display. If you have a Progressive display, you may want to enable EVERY output format in the advanced setup. This way, you can see which one your set accepts. From there you can try different outputs. Maybe the default output for auto DVI on SD is 480i, but your set does not like that over DVI?? Try enabling each of the 4 480 outputs separately to see if you set likes on or the other better. Your comment about using up-convert 2 suggests that your set like the 480P signals the best. The conversion from 1080 down to 720 will usually create a softer picture because of the format conversion process.

vegggas

Thought this would be a great day. Picked up the HD DVR this morning, went home, and hooked it up in less than 5 minutes. Called Cox to get it authorized and that's where the nightmare began. It is 7:10PM as I write this. I've been on the phone with Cox since 12:30PM!!!! Yes, over 6 and a half hours!!! Nobody can get this thing to authorize. I've talked to three different CSR's and one so-called "expert". No one can get this thing working. I hope no one else is having the same nightmare I'm going through. Until they can fix this I have no cable service.

Several hundred people have already taken this box home and it worked for them. Did you read Keith's comments earlier?
In General, you should hook up the box and it should start downloading the software. This can take from 5-15 minutes. If it does not download software, it can't be authorized. If it doesn't start downloading software, I would suspect a bum cable - check the center conductor to see if it's pulled back into the fitting and not making contact then make sure the shield conductor is also good. Try a new RF cable, and make sure it's connected to the Input of the box.
Rebooting the box several times is not a good idea. It should be done once and then allow for the entire contents to load. When it's finished, it should either display the time, or "- - - -". If it shows time, then it's communicating back and forth with the headend. It it shows the four dashes, it's either not getting a complete signal back and forth to the headend, or is on the "blacklist" until it can be cleared and setup.

vegggas

For those of you having problems getting the box authorized, here are a few tips condensed from my prior posts:

1) Hook the cable RF signal up to the box first. Also hook at least one output to the TV (usually component for HDTV).

2) Plug the box in to electrical.

3) The box should start to boot and download software. It is VERY evident that the software is being loaded as hex numbers on the display will count down the modules being downloaded. THIS WILL TAKE AROUND 20-30 MINUTES. Do not be impatient. Do not call customer service until after the software is downloaded.

4) After software is downloaded, you will probably get four dashes (----) on the box display. This means that the box is not authorized. A message stating so will also be displayed on the TV if you check.

5) At this time, even though the box is not authorized you can get into the status menu the same way you could for the digital boxes. That is, press the + key on the unit and hold it until it flashes then press info key. You should see status: Ready and your levels should all be in the white (mine are usually around 0 dbmv except for fdc which is usually around +34). If the status says "initializing" wait until it says "ready" before doing anything else.

6) If you see status:ready and levels are good on the first page of the status menu, there is no doubt that the box should authorize.

7) Call in to get it authorized. As you can see from my prior posts the first CSR that I spoke with had me unplug the box while she sent the authorization ("hit") to the box. This didn't work (many times). After calling in and getting in a different CSR, my box was authorized immediately while it was PLUGGED IN displaying four dashes-no problem at all.

8) The CSR should be able to "see" your box if it has finished downloading the software and everything is OK. You could also reconfirm the serial #'s that the CSR has. It begins with SA and is letters only on the back of the box. This is swiped in to the Cox computer when you pick up the box, so there shouldn't be any typos, but who knows-I know when I picked up box there was a lot of typing done. That is why I confirmed serial # with the second CSR prior to trying to authorize.

Sorry this post got a little long, but I am just trying to put everything in one place...I hope it can be of some help to those having problems.....


Keith

Great post Keith!
It had been a few months since I got the original 8000HD, so I forgot just how long it took to get the initial download. It was a long time, but thought 5-15 min was enough time, but you just reminded me of the countdown sequence. I had another used test box that had already been on the system with the downloads and it only took a few minutes to be ready, so I didn't know if it still took that long or not.

:cool: Follow Keiths advice.:cool:

The only thing I can add is this: If the levels are yellow, they are marginal, and if they are red, there is a connectivity problem. White levels are a good thing.

vegggas

Picked up my box yesterday at the Henderson office. Nice staff. She said I was the first one. Took about a half hour on the phone to get authorization. They didn't get it right away and while my CSR left to get her supervisor, it started working. It's too much fun, I think I'll be out of space by Tuesday. I need to stop typing and watch the end of T3 in HD! There are a few blips in the sound, but beyond that, it is working very well. The non HD stations look like crap. Worse than regular cable and I can't stretch them correctly. I'll probably watch analog cable for nonHD content and things I haven't recorded.

I agree, I am having a lot of fun recording stuff "just because I can". I was looking forward to recording the Padre game in HD to test the HD recording, but the game tonight is not in HD (they are in Seattle).

I just discovered something that is a bit annoying with the 8000hd. I was watching a show that I recorded on the DVR and also watching the Padre game in the PIP. I paused the DVR during a crucial time in the game and then swapped to the game on the regular picture relegating the DVR to the PIP. When I swapped the paused DVR to the PIP, it "unpaused". I tried this a few times and it appears that when swapping, it turns the DVR "on". Not a huge issue, but little annoying.

Are any of the Pay per view or EOD movies in HD (or even 480p)? I was thinking about ordering one tonight, but really want to get something in HD.

Originally posted by Tallen234
Are any of the Pay per view or EOD movies in HD (or even 480p)? I was thinking about ordering one tonight, but really want to get something in HD.
Not yet. HBO on demand is in the works and a few others slated, but no time frames announced. The PPV movies are decent quality, with high bit rate, but still at SD resolution. I think the current EOD system uses a lower resolution signal so it will not look as good as PPV, even though there are a lot of widescreen movies available.

vegggas

Picked up my box this morning..waited on hold for 20 min...was authorized in 2 minutes..

So now we have to set screen rez by hand? I see no pass through command in set up. I kinda likes flipping back and forth between dig, ana, and hd and having the screen formats change automatically. I hope this is just a programming issue and they bring it back pronto.

PT

Finally got my box working and have had one full day to play with it. Does anyone know if the Copy to VCR feature is working? All the CSR's are clueless about this. I hooked up the box to a vcr as per the instructions and can't even get a picture on the vcr. I triple checked all the connections and tuned to Chs 3 and 4 and all the other channels for that matter. Nothing. Has anyone else tried to do this yet? Not a big deal if it's not "live" yet. It's just a nice feature to have.

The archive to VCR feature is working. I have already used it. I hooked the VCR through the composite jacks so marked on the back of the unit and it worked fine. It may also work over RF (ch4) but I didn't check that. You will have to go to list and then have something recorded, then select and you should see the option to archive to VCR. As far as I know, it cannot be done with live streams (see Vegggas's prior posts as to why).

Another thing I did find in another thread that may be interesting to everyone, is that the # key on the remote is the same as the zoom key on the old 3250 remote. That saves you from going into settings if you care to use this feature. I rarely use it (would rather have the TV do the zoom and stretch), but I did confirm that it is working this way.

Keith

Pass through should be available with the DVI option in September or October.
Copy to VCR works. The AV outputs have to go to your recording device, like a VCR or other device with AV inputs. You need to record off your AV inputs, NOT a channel number. If your TV has PIP, you could route the VCR archive outputs to those inputs and see that in the TV PIP window, while using the STB PIP to view two other programs, giving you a main screen with PIP, and the TV's PIP windows.

vegggas

Hopefully Vegggas or someone else can confirm this, or maybe I am just halucinating:

I just got home and since I needed to archive a program to VCR, I tried out a few things:

1) I hooked up an RF cable to the RF out of the SA8000 to the input of the VCR. I also left my composite cable connected too.

2) I chose list, then archive to vcr, started the recording and monitored it on the VCR input of my TV. It worked on BOTH the composite and the RF (channel 4) on the VCR. Have not tried to see if the signal was on S-Video also, but I imagine it was.

3) Now for the really weird thing. I tried turning OFF the SA8000 and even though it was OFF the archiving to VCR continued. This sort of freaked me out. I would have figured the archiving to VCR would have stopped with the box turned off.

4) Next I turned the box back on and went to the DVR playback channel. It said that nothing was playing back at this time (even though the it was still playing back the VCR archive) and would let me chose something else to playback. I didn't do choose anything because I didn't want to interrupt my recording (possibly).

From the prompt that I got by going to the DVR playback channel, it would seem theoretically possible that you could be recording any two shows, playing back one prerecorded show over the composite, RF and S-Video outs (for archive to VCR), and also watching a different prerecorded show on the VCR playback channel (through component outputs), ALL AT THE SAME TIME????? Is this right?

Keith

Is anyone watching the Padre game tonight? they are at the BOB in Phoenix. The picture seems a little "off". It appears a little darker and a little "less clear" than normal. I am wondering if it is the HD equipment in AZ rather than my new 8000hd. Perhaps I am seeing things as one of the old problems with the 8000hd was quality of the picture....

From the prompt that I got by going to the DVR playback channel, it would seem theoretically possible that you could be recording any two shows, playing back one prerecorded show over the composite, RF and S-Video outs (for archive to VCR), and also watching a different prerecorded show on the VCR playback channel (through component outputs), ALL AT THE SAME TIME????? Is this right?

Keith

Yes. Another reason why there is no simultaneous output of the main HD channel on SD. These are separate mpeg streams. You can record two shows at once and play back a third. With the PIP/archive/playback, you can archive a FOURTH stream to a VCR or alternate AV display.
At least this is the theoretical, although not proved by me, description of the technical papers on the mpeg streams and the tuners.
I never did connect the RF cable out, but I guess it works too.

vegggas

My box is having pic problems on sd and hd the pic sort of flickers then gets a bit darker a lil later it will flick and get bright again. I had this same problem with a HD unit from cox back in nov, the unit was bad , you could tap it and make it do it. Other sources are not doing this, ie cable right from wall and PC and DVD.

Anybody else seeing this?

Does anyone know how to turn on the Pseudo Screen Saver to prevent screen burn-in on the 8000hd DVR.

Thanks

Mike

Hi all,
I just got my 8000HD yesterday and I am excited, but I cannot figure out if it is possible to have the 4:3 channels (all but HD) be displayed in 4:3 and the 16:9 channels displayed in 16:9?
I am also wondering if it is possible to just have a 480i 4:3 signal always coming out of the RF output while the component is set for 1080i or whatever?
Basically I need to figure out how my TV can use 4:3 stretch mode for eveything except the HD channels, but without me having to switch the format on the box and the TV everytime I change channels...

Thanks,
Gergg

To toggle stretch/zoom modes, use the "#" button. This will stretch or zoom any format. There is no "auto format" or "pass through" right now. Be sure to set up your output resolutions according to what you want to use, in the advanced setup (power off, then press Guide and Info on the front of the box).
I don't think there is a way to turn on the screen saver manually. It may come up after a few minutes. I just channel down to a live channel when I'm not sure how long I'll be gone, and then back to the DVR channel when I'm ready to continue playback.
Speco, I'm not sure what to say about your setup, except that it's weird and not very common. To happen twice, might indicate some sort of other problem, possibly with grounding, or floating voltage levels???

vegggas

I'm having trouble with the "power save" mode. It says in the manual that it is supposed to kick in if there's no remote activity for 4 hours during the wee hours of the morning. It kicks in on my unit after 1am if I haven't touched the remote for about 10 minutes. Very annoying. Is there any way to turn this feature off to keep this from happening over and over.

Also, if I want to watch a program that is still recording, is there any way to start watching it from the beginning without having to rewind it? For example, I am recording a program that lasts 2 hours. Say it's half way through the program and I want to start watching it now. I select it from the list of recorded shows and it starts playing at the "live" point, not the beginning of the recording. I have to rewind it back to the beginning, which can take several minutes. I don't want to have to do this. It should start playing from the beginning. Is this a glitch that needs to be fixed or a limitation of the unit? I've been a Tivo user for the past 4 years and am starting to get a little frustrated at the limitations and lack of features of the SA unit. This thing needs a MAJOR software overhaul, IMO.

The powersave mode shuts the box off anytime between 1:00 AM and 6:00 AM when there is no activity. There is no way to disable it, other than to use it periodically. This might go away after SA has gotten the software more stable and don't need to send as many updates (the box should be off to get updates whenever possible).
There is no way to start the playback at the start of a program that is currently recording. SA is aware that it's a major gripe, along with the show ending and booting you back to live, when trying to watch a delayed, but active recording.
Patience.

vegggas

Veggas.........

Does the DVR box have the same settings available that the 3250 did.. as in upconvert-2 gives you 720p output?

Thanks,

Steve

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Veggas.........
Does the DVR box have the same settings available that the 3250 did.. as in upconvert-2 gives you 720p output?
Thanks,
Steve
It did, but it was pulled back for some reason. That feature is supposed to be returning with the DVI update later this year. For now, there is only fixed output settings.

Vegggas

Whats really odd about my problem is that this is a different house than my other box had problems in. These things seem to run really hot, or is it just mine?

FYI - There is a scheduled systems upgrade Wednesday night, Thursday morning (July 1). It may cause problems with PPV and EOD during the early morning hours during the systems reboot. It shouldn't affect the DVR's, but anything can happen if there are problems.

vegggas

Has anyone noticed any PQ problems with the 8000HD as compared to the 3250. When watching a movie in 1080i last night, I thought I saw a faint vertical line at times throughout the movie. I thought it was maybe in the transfer, but after I finished watching I confirmed that is is there all the time in 1080i mode. I tried channel 99, to get an "all black" image up and I could see it clearly. If I changed the screen resolution to anything other than 1080i the line was not there. Also, if the box was turned off while set to 1080i, I could still see the line. I don't have any other 1080i source so I can't check it that way. The vertical line is a little to the left of center on my display. I have a Panny RP 47".

Has anyone else seen anything like this with the 8000HD? I have had this TV around 4 months now and have watched lots of HD using the 3250 box, and have never seen it using the 3250 box (and I was using component connections also on the 3250). Also, it may be my imagination, but it does seem the HD picture quality (1080i) is a little softer on the 8000HD as compared to the 3250. In the least, it seems "different" from the pic on the 3250.

If anyone has seen anything like this, or if any could check (using channel 99 or just turn off the box while set for 1080i-but leave the TV on), I would certainly appreciate any feedback or help. I did try swapping the component cables and that did not help at all. I may have to get Cox out to look at it, but with the holiday weekend coming up I won't be able to schedule an appointment for a while...

Thanks for any comments or help.....

Keith

Have not seen the line problem. I went to ch 99 and it looks fine. My other problem seems solved now as I went to another input on my TV and gavent had the issue.

Keith,

I too felt that the 8000 HD picture is "softer" compared to my old 3100 box and the SD pics are absolutely horrible. I view using a Gateway 56'' DLP so I was used to razer sharp HD images and I ran the analog feed from the 3100 through the sets Faroudja processor and was getting very good SD pics. I tolerated the 8000 for 1 day and took it back. Hey---hi-def images off the Public broadcasting channel (my worst hi-def channel) looked like SD TV. They didn't have my old 3100 but gave me the 3250. I must say that I'm very pleased with the 3250. I'll stay current with this forum and just might try another trade down the road if Cox comes out with an improved model.

My SD pictures look fine on the 8000HD, the same as they did on the 3250 box. I had the 3250 box set up so that I could view SD over component (as well as HD over component). I had to make no adjustments to picture settings when switching back and forth from HD to SD. The pass-through feature worked great (but it did revert back to fixed every few days or so-a known problem with the 3250 boxes). The only thing I had to do was turn up the sub-brightness in the SM of my TV because the the black levels were lower for 480i as compared to 1080i (Panasonic uses a different color matrix for HD and SD). When I hooked up the 8000HD, it looked fine on SD with no additional adjustments from how I had them set for the 3250 box, both for analog and digital channels.

I can't figure out this vertical line problem yet though. It is only on 1080i and there all the time. I guess it could be a TV problem since no one else has seen, it. But if it is, it would seem to be inherent with the 8000HD box that I currently have. I have only had it a week and I noticed the problem within three days. I had the 3250 for 6 months (I think) and I never noticed the problem. I can definitely say that the HD picture is "different" on the 8000HD than it is on the 3250.

Keith

Just checked for the possibility of a visual line using ch99 as a reference. Didn't see anything either. You can also go into the second settings screen and adjust the borders from dark to medium to light to see if any show the line better.
Keith, when you see the line, using your box, adjust the stretch and zoom modes using the "#" button. If the line is coming from the box, it will move around when the box is ouputting different formats (more likely on an hd channel). If the TV is capable of zoom and stretch modes, check that second. Movement here indicates something in the video drive section. If there is no movement using the TV stretch modes, it would indicate that the source is in the optics, mirror assembly or screen.
There is also a known issue if you are watching StarzHD. There are vertical lines spaced evenly across the screen in some of their showings. Most notably was the showing of Nemo, which was really bad. This was noticed as a fault from the origianl source, since it was seen across the country on multiple platforms.

Concerning the 8000 vs 3250 issue. I still have both boxes, connected to the same HD input, switched with a mechanical switcher. Using the Padres game SD4 graphics display in the upper left corner, I can see no difference between the two boxes. I will admit, my set is due for a relcalibration and could use a slight focus adjustment, but is well above the average HD display. During testing on the plasma displays at work earlier, I found no difference there either. I still have the 3100 too, and it's far worse than either of the newer models.

Speco, I'm glad you found the source of your problem. I was hesitant to point towards your equipment, but the rare and unusual problem you described seemed odd to happen twice to the same person on the same Tv set. Hope you multiple inputs or a switcher.

vegggas

Yes Veggass the first time it happened last year the tech and I tried different cables and inputs and could make it happen, he did some diag tests on it and found it to be bad. So I was concerned again with the box, but all seems good. I am getting some audio drop out of the digital side every now and then only on the HD channels and the music channels

Vegggas (and others),

Thanks for the suggestion re: changing Zoom, etc. That was one I hadn't thought of. I did this, and you were right, the line's position did NOT change when Zoomed or Stretched by the box. This would indicate to me that the problem is with the TV and and not inherent in the box. I did also try changing the sidebars from dark to medium to light. The line remained in the same position throughout.

I am now certain that the problem is NOT with the 8000HD. However, since I couldn't see this problem before with the 3250 (or maybe it was less apparent or less bothersome), I think the next step will be that I get a 3250 box and do an A/B comparison. If the line is not there with the 3250, I think I will just revert back to that box, or keep the 8000HD and call Panny service and see if they can get rid of the line with that box. My guess is they will probably say the TV is in specs since the line is so faint. The problem is you can really see it on pans, and once you are aware of it, your eyes are drawn to it.

Anyway, this is good news in a way for everyone else, in that the problem was not with the 8000HD......

Thanks again for the help and comments....

Keith

Anyone else getting the audio drops? I switched to optical and it still does it. Its a brand new Pioneer unit that I am using. Not having the problem off the non hd channels which are also passing thru the optical line as well.

I'm getting some audio drops from the 8000HD also. Some channels more than others, and some shows more than others. It is only on the HD stations, SD are fine. I'm running optical line through a Marantz.

Dropouts are only noticeable on Dolby Digital material, and yes, they will happen on SD material too.
The dropout is only a fraction of a second, but it takes a long time for the audio reciever to buffer and sync the DD signal. This is why you hear the dropouts. If you were watching a channel with digital PCM stereo, like CBS, the droputs would still be there, but you might not ever notice them because they are nothing more than a missing bit.
If the audio dropouts are really bad on a particular program, switch to the PCM digital signal. The dropouts are more related to certain programs too. You can watch the same channel and have a ton of dropouts, and then the next program starts and then it's clean. SA is working on using buffers to keep the stream active and it has been better, but it still comes and goes. The worst offenders appear to be ABC and Showtime, and rarely happen on INHD or DiscHD. CBS and NBC don't do DD, so you should never hear them acting up.

vegggas

Since I've been asked, I will start on a review and setup guide on the 8000HD, like I did for the 3250. It will be a continuation of the data started in the TWC 8000 thread. I should have my notes compiled by the end of the weekend. Since this is our local forum, I will let you guy's in on a small, undocumented feature.
I call it "Pervert Mode", for reasons that may become apparent if you ever use it for a certain specific purpose :D as my wife claims when we watch Fear Factor.
"Pervert Mode", is used when you pause the display on a scene you wish to examine closely. You could be using the Slow Motion (press Play a second time) feature to get close to the scene you want paused and then use Pause to freeze the video. The FF button will then become a frame advance button, but that annoying banner is always in the way every time you press the button. After pressing the FF/Frame advance button, immediately press the EXIT button to clear the banner, then press the FF/frame advance button again. The banner will now be gone, leaving the picture to be manipulated as you want without anything being covered up.
Enjoy the view, but only use it for replays of a close baseball tag :rolleyes: or other non fleshy nature.

vegggas

Thanks for the info on the audio Veggas but its nearly unbearable. We listen to alot of the music stations and its just maddening. It has happened on Discovery and INHD. It seems to sound thin when not on Dolby and it does it then as well, right now as I listen to ch 913

Speco
The known issue with audio dropouts is with the DD sync. The recieving device has to re-sync the digital stream when there is the slightest break and that takes a few moments and is noticeable. The breaks are almost non detectable when not using DD. Any highly noticeable dropouts that you are hearing on the music stations, which are PCM, and not DD, are not from that issue and are from something else.
I would investigate your setup a bit more and try some different wiring configurations, inputs (as you already found one set to be bad) and cables.
When making changes, like swapping with a known good device such as a DVD player, swap the entire path. Meaning that effectively you are connecting the STB to the DVD input with the DVD cables, etc and the DVD will use the STB wires and inputs, etc.
At the very minimum, you could go into the 2nd settings screen on the STB and change the AUDIO: RANGE to Narrow, and then also go into your receiver and change the Dynamic Range to Narrow there too. If both are set to wide, the levels could be expanded beyond the limits of the digital audio level range and causing problems.
What are your signal levels on the affected channels? Hold the center button on front of display until mail light comes on (3 seconds) then press info. Use the page button to scroll through the screens to look at the tuner specs. White RF levels are good, and Red need attention. Zero and below zero levels are fine and signals down to -10 are still considered good with no problems.

vegggas

I have not picked up my 8000HD yet as I have been out of town working..., but I am wondering on these DD audio dropout problems...

Is this only on live viewing or does the audio also drop out on recorded programs?

Thanks,

Steve

The DD audio dropout problems are just like the problems that the 3250 has/had. They are being worked on and except in the case of Speco's situation, which sounds like a different problem, are generally not that bad. Dropouts do happen from time to time, but not that often.
The glitches are in the digital stream and the way the tuner demodulates the QAM signal. The way the box handles the glitch is seen in both the live and recorded signal. The recorded signal is the digital signal as it comes down the line, so it is exactly like it would be when it's live.
Weighing the options between worrying about a few dropouts, and not getting the 8000, you would, IMHO, be sorry for not getting the DVR. Go ahead and get it. Updates are coming at even pace and things are only going to get better.

vegggas

Veggas I checked the numbers and it was in the red 366ms I believe. And I have switched out 2 optical cables and also SPDIF I have some real good industrial strength cables from work. I am the lead audio guy for one of the larger strip hotels so I have a great line of cables to test and try, and inputs etc.. And Tried DVD player and PC optical with no problems. Thanks for all the help here Veggas, I don't know if we all say that enough to you and others who step up to the plate here.

Does anyone have the screen saver working when you pause the program on your tv.

Thanks

Mike

Originally posted by mseagrov
Does anyone have the screen saver working when you pause the program on your tv.
Thanks
Mike
No. I don't think that's enabled. Use Channel Down to go to NBC or even PBS if you don't know how long you are going to pause. Channel up to the DVR channel and press play to continue.

vegggas

Vegggas,

It is a relief to read that other people know about this problem. I currently have this audio drop-out issue with my 8000HD and I had the same issue with my 3250HD (which I had to exchange for a 3100HD to solve the problem). I find it to be extremely annoying while watching a program when the audio continuously drops out. What's almost as bad as the audio problem itself is that no one at Cox has been of any help. The phone rep's could not help. They sent out a technician when I had my 3250HD box and he didn't even know what the optical digital out was for!! You say that updates are coming. My question is, how are the updates implemented? Is it a software/firmware upgrade that Cox will do to the 8000HD remotely from their end, do they have to do it on location, or do you just mean that there will be a new box one day that will replace the 8000HD and fix the problem? I can't understand how Cox has been testing this box for (7?) months and they released it with this known glitch (Do they even know about it? Did none of the testers hook up their SA box to a home theater receiver via a digital connection? Why would SA release this product and Cox roll it out in this below-satisfactory state of operation?).

Thanks,
Kevin
(Las Vegas)

Updates are done from Cox. No user intervention required. It's SA that's always releasing equipment with malfunctioning fireware. It's like Microsoft, only they release with about 60,000 bugs or so. I don't have the box but if it really bothers you then maybe just go back to the old HD box until it's sorted out.
Keep in mind that most techs are paid about $10 an hour. So the good techs move on to better paying jobs. I don't understand it, but that how it is. If it was a sub contractor they get paid a little better, but work like 14 hrs a day until they can't take it anymore, then move on. So they really have few techs with a year or more experience. It's amazing but what can you do. That's the way the run things.

So guys after I did the diag check like Veggas said and had the hi numbers I tunes to some SD stations and the numbers cleared when I went back to HD stuff and have not had the problem since then. It seems like it almost reset itself. Also when it was doing it the picture would also have some digital breakup, so it seemed more a problem of the entire signal not just the DD Audio. Anyway its all good for now.

-------- On a related subject---------- sort of

Does anyone have an "ace" calibrator here in Vegas they would like to recommend?

It would be really nice to find someone that was familiar with the BenQ 8700+!

Steve

FYI to those with the standard SA 8000 DVR:

I woke up this morning and noticed that Cox updated the software in the box.

We now have a bar-graph available showing the used disk space along with the percentage used. Plus there are new options when recording "all episodes", including recording all shows, record only the first run of the show (good for HBO series), and record only when the show is in that particular timeslot. Well needed features!! Kudos to Cox for finally getting this update out....and hopefully it's bug-free!

On a a side note, I noticed that Music Choice has made one change and one addition: Radio Disney has replaced For Kids Only, and a 90's channel has been added to the lineup.

.....so I have no real contibution of info here. Move along; just announcing my arrival.......I'll be lurking rather than posting, as per the learning process. Next month I'll be taking the WHOLE plunge into HD; startin' from scratch. Only decision so far is a DLP tv; pro'bly Sammy, and will investigate dvd players, sound systems, recorders, Cox and satellite......that's it, right?
Wanted a FP but ambient light killed that idea.....So, greetings! and now, back to your regularly scheduled .......programming(?);)

Is it just me, or are we not getting alot of the INHD baseball games? Todays red sox vs a's game is not being shown....why not? I was looking forward to alot of INHD baseball this year. thank goodness for the Padre channel...

JB1219

I read an article on INHD today concerning their sports programming. I believe all the California teams are blacked out for us no matter where they play. Doesn't make sense, but I don't think I have seen any Calif teams play on INHD when they were supposed to, no picture! You're right, thanks to whomever for the Padre station.

The Red Sox were playing the A's so it was blacked out here. So all Oakland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Anaheim and Arizona games will be blacked out on INHD....all those teams claim Las Vegas as their home market...it's another moronic rule of Major League Baseball. That's why I dont get the MLB package....it would be a waste.

I think this has something to do with Fox Sports Net having the rights to Anahiem, LA, SF, Oakland, and I think Arizona for the LV area. I know when I had DirecTV a few years ago I could get the Oakland and SF games on Fox Sports Bay Area, even though I didn't subscribe to sports pak or MLB extra innings. I only received the Fox Sports West and Fox Sports West 2 channels, but the bay area games would come in on Fox Sports bay area.

Just a guess??? At least we do have the Padres in HD, which was a nice surprise by Cox....

Keith

I wonder if the Expos (and I know that's a big if) moved to Las Vegas, would the silly blackout rules be removed? It certainly frustrates me to know the technology is there to bring us so much baseball, yet the only games available on Extra Innings involving a 7:00 local start are the games played by the Mariners (unless, of course, they are playing the A's, Angels, D-Backs, Giants, Padres or Dodgers):mad:

By the way, for those of us who do not sub to Cox HD, there are no Padres games available either. Why don't they put them back on Channel 48??? They own the rights, how much could it cost?

Originally posted by gworkman
I wonder if the Expos (and I know that's a big if) moved to Las Vegas, would the silly blackout rules be removed? It certainly frustrates me to know the technology is there to bring us so much baseball, yet the only games available on Extra Innings involving a 7:00 local start are the games played by the Mariners (unless, of course, they are playing the A's, Angels, D-Backs, Giants, Padres or Dodgers):mad:



That's a good question. I believe the answer would be yes, and that would be great. We wouldn't be blacked out of anymore games on EI. Except for the Expos games, of course. The downside is we would probably lose the cable broadcasts of the Dodgers and Angels, the OTA broadcasts of the Diamondbacks and would have to subscribe to EI to get them back. Also, we would most likely lose the Padres in HD. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint) the Expos have about as much chance of moving here as I have of winning Megabucks this weekend.

A buddy of mine is looking to install a speaker system (probably a 6.1 or 7.1 system). He is probably going to need ceiling mounted/in ceiling rear speakers. I imagine it will be better to get a local boutique home theater contractor to do the whole deal. Do you guys have any recommendations?

anybody have info on whether or not Cox will have FoxHD in time for football? Just read a thread on the main forum that states of Fox's 194 affiliates, 87 are broadcasting in HD right now. ..so a little less than 50%. San Diego and LA have FoxHD i believe. I'd also love to see Foxnet sports in HD as well.

NFL kicks off early Sept. less than 2 months

It depends on when our local FOX affiliate decides to upgrade their signal. Currently they are only running 480i and not Fox widescreen or HD, so they can't provide Cox with anything.

vegggas

I finally was allowed to post a setup and review guide for the 8000HD.
SA8000HD DVR - Cox - SARA - Setup and Review Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4042229#post4042229)

Enjoy!

vegggas

Has anyone with the SA8000HD DVR had issues with the audio making loud popping noises until the channel is changed and then sometimes it stops and sometimes it doesn't?

-Gergg

I've never had this happen with the digital audio out and I've never hooked up the analog connections.
Are you using digital or analog audio?
Dropouts are known to happen with the Dolby Digital selected in the digital output selection, but they usually just drop out and reappear without any pops.
Do the pops coincide with video breakups or skips? Skipping mpegs could cause this problem.

vegggas

The pops are on the analog out. They may be on the digital out also, but I did not check. I also have problems with the sound not coming up with the video when I change channels or the sound out of sync with the video sometimes, but neither is related to when I get the pops.

-Gergg

I would have to hook up the analog cables to hear that, bu tit could be related to the audio dropout issue. Anyone have both connections hooked up?
I too, sometimes have an audio delay (no audio for 2 seconds) when changing channels. It comes and goes with no pattern. To correct audio sync problems, try the instant replay button. After the last update, before general release, my unit stopped doing that.
Any Video problems? Horizontal lines in the picture (very often) or complete screen corruption at times? This would indicate a reformat or replacement unit.

vegggas

No video problems, just loud clicks and pops in the audio.

-Gergg

I had audio pops on HD and digital channels off and on for a few weeks; no popping at all on low analog. Called Cox and they rebooted my 3250 box last week, no popping since then. They also told me they hadn't been able to download to the box for a few weeks, asked me if the box was always on. I told them no, I turned it off every night. Weird.........

I can't believe I ever lived without my SA8000HD DVR. Since we've never used a DVR before it's alot of fun discovering all they can do.

Since vegggas seems to have the inside track to the software developers would you please remind them of the importance of the pass through feature...it needs to be re-enabled on a first priority basis. Those of us with a house full 'o kids are forever manually changing screen formats and having pass through on my 3250 spoiled me and I'm sure many others completely.

PT

Bump?

Originally posted by Tallen234
A buddy of mine is looking to install a speaker system (probably a 6.1 or 7.1 system). He is probably going to need ceiling mounted/in ceiling rear speakers. I imagine it will be better to get a local boutique home theater contractor to do the whole deal. Do you guys have any recommendations?

Yes, I can give you the name of someone you can use who will do a "bang-up" job.

I will send you a PM.

Steve

Now if I could find a good person to calibrate my projector!!!

I have been called out on the video quality of the 8000HD. Can anyone else CONFIRM their OTA compared to 8000HD PQ. My testing on multiple display devices showed no difference, but... YMMV.
Ideal situations would be from an external OTA STB connected via component going to a native source display. Compare CBS 1080i from OTA on a crt based set that does 1080i with CBS from the 8000 with output set to 1080i. Compare the two signals, then swap the cables AT THE STB's so that the complete path and connections are swapped. Compare the signals again.
For digital based sets, (Plasma, LCD, DLP, etc) that have native 720P and have to scale down 1080i resolution use ABC with each STB set to output 720P. Do the same above comparisons, while swapping the connections at the STB to get absolute comparisons.
I'm not looking for differences in scalers in devices as a determining factor, but that the PQ can be passed with the same quality as the OTA signals. Use of an internal QAM tuner or DVI connection renders the test non-comparable because the signals are being passed in the Digital domain without the analog conversion done in the component section and rendering done on the TV input.
For MY references, I used the following devices and comparisons. All using component out using native resolution when possible. Only differences found were in the scaling done in each device. [This was done before public release] SA8010HD DVR (2 units)
SA3250HD
Samsung T-150 OTA reciever
Qam tuner box for plasma displays
Philips HD and also ED plasmas
LG HD plasma
Panasonic HD and ED plasmas
Mitsubishi 65809 CRT RP


Thanks for your responses and testing. Please note how your comparisons were done and if they followed the standard testing above.

vegggas

on a "sort of" related note... Cox San Diego has added FoxHD to their lineup. We need Fox5 to start doing thier thing in HD...in time for football preferably!

jb

I have finally got my HD TiVo unit and I have a question about PBS OTA. What channel does PBS come on. Is it 10-1 or 11-1. The TiVo has guide data for 10-1 but I have to turn the TiVo manually to 11-1 to get it. The other thing that is interesting about the HD TiVo is you don't have to do a channel scan. All the channels show up if you can pick them up or not. I think that part is nice. Of course with all TiVo units you can filter out any channel you want.

lvthunder, I have the same issue with my sat520, guide info on 10-1 & 10-2, picture & sound on 11-1 & 11-2. Also my mits tv with builtin tuner shows the channels on 11-1 & 11-2. By the way how is the OTA tuner on that unit.

It seems just as good as my Sony HD100 if not a little better. I think I'm going to email them and ask them to remap the channels to 10.1 and 10.2. BTW what's on 10.2?

When on, 10.2 is the digital channel for the standard PBS channel

Re: channel 10, I finally have gone HD with a Directv w/Tivo.
Using a set top antenna, I am getting good signals (in the mid 80's) from all of the towers on the mountain except channel 10.
I was just wondering if 10 might not be transmitting at this time on the digital side. Otherwise I find it odd I am getting good reception from all the other main channels, 3, 5, 8 and 13.
Although I am not a regular viewer of PBS, I have heard that 10 broadcasts some good HD programs and would like to take a look.
Thanks,
Rick

Try manually typing in 11-1 to get PBS. The guide says 10-1 but it's not being mapped to that.

ABC Digital Democratic Coverage and News channel on 13.2 and Cox Digital 129. This is a seperate feed dedicated to the News channel and current Democratic coverage. For clarification, the signal is broadcast in SD and is not HD.

Cox will offer select Speeches and other Political notable through the EOD service (In the free view area) when they become avaialbe and are loaded. Stay tuned for further announcements.

vegggas

On another thread it is being reported that Las Vegas KVVU Fox 5 has their splicer installed and is getting ready for HD. OTA users keep looking out for spurious testing feeds. Once they have a tested and working OTA HD feed, then it should be passed to Cox for distribution on Ch 734 or 735 within a few weeks.

vegggas

Vegggas you made my day!! Hope this report is accurate. With Fox being a major player in network sports, I am looking forward to the day they're in HD....

I'm only going by what Cpanther95 is reporting over in the Fox thread over here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3890344#post3890344) .
He recently (last few days) reported that Fox was supposed to have the splicer installed and was 5.1 ready.
I don't know ANY local information regarding this, only that Cpanther95 is hearing a lot of upgrades are being completed, and Las Vegas was listed. Cox has also mentioned Fox in some of their Cox vs. D* ST comparisons for this season, indicating that they will be carrying the Fox games in HD too.

Still, there are NO confirmations. OTA users keep checking for test feeds and rescan periodically

vegggas.