Originally posted by bcoombs
WM,

It appears that you are frustrated with Cox, and maybe rightfully so. And so are others. But you really come off as bitter when you start attacking the intentions of someone like Vegggas, who has been nothing but helpful to this community (I've been lurking on these forums for a couple of years, now).

Sometimes in life, you have to accept what you get. Some things you can change, and some you can't. Those that you can't, you either settle (which many of us don't like to do), or you find another alternative (which it appears that you have). But relax. After all, it's only baseball (just kidding!)...

On the contrary.
If you had bothered to read my posts you would have read that I THANKED Vegggas repeatedly for his work in providing us with technical information regarding set-top boxes and their operation. That aside , I still feel that (consciously or inadvertently) he has been making excuses for Cox Cables lack of responsiveness to viewer requests and complaints.
My point was that unless Cox Cable offers programming which is at least comparable to that of Direct TV, Cox Cable will eventually be the loser.
Right now, the ONLY advantage that Cox enjoys is their offerings of the local network channels (and the movie channels) in HD.
Believe me, if I owned my own home (instead of renting an apartment because of physical disabilities), I would change to Direct Tv on a moments notice. Because then I would be able to use an outdoor antenna to receive my local HD programming. Right now, that is an impossibility because of line-of-sight incompatabilities
Coxs BIG LACK is that of sports programming. And unless they are SPECIFICALLY PREVENTED BY LAW from carrying the Fox Regional Sports Networks, they ought to do so, REGARDLESS OF THE COST. I know it won't BREAK 'EM That action alone would eliminate the major advantage that Direct TV has, and would INCREASE Cox subscribers by huge numbers, thus turning even more profit for Cox.

In conclusion, I want to say that no man is above criticism. Vegggas' work in providing technical and user information for us is enormously appreciated by the members of this forum (myself included). But when he expresses a view that I find to be excessively defensive of Cox Cable, I am not afraid to say so, even though I may eventually be proven mistaken.

Originally posted by gvc
I usually cannot watch ABC through the 8300 due to the poor pic quality as compared to the other HD channels, but I can watch ABC HD through the direct cable signal going into my built in HD tuner in the tv. The pic quality is better...not perfect...but definitely better and watchable. My tv wont accept 720p native resolution so I just figured something was getting screwed up with the box upconverting to 1080i.

I don't wish to be placed in the peculiar position of actually praising or defending Cox Cable. But what's fair, is fair,

When ABC broadcasts a true HD signal (such as the one they use for Desperate Housewives, NYPD, Boston Legal, some episodes of the Practice, Monday Night Football and last weeks Academy Awards) the PQ as provided by Cox Cable is exemplary. Clearly the equal of any other stations signal, with no visible artifacts or distortions. And this is true whether you are using the 8000HD or the 8300HD. And my signal is always upconverted to 1080i.

Its stretch-o-vision mode, on the other hand , is thoroughly disgusting. But that's ABCs fault, not the fault of Cox.

ALthough I am a bit ticked at Cox due to the Padre fiasco. IMO the only reason to get Direct TV is for the NFL Sunday ticket. I love the fact that you do not need to go out of pocket (I know, you "rent" it with cox) for the hardware. The Direct TV HD Tivo originally came out at $1000. You can rent the Cox SA8000 for $10 a month. Then if you want to upgrade to the 8300 you can do that with no penalty. When the next great Direct TV tuner comes out, you will have to buy that. I like the flexibility with Cox and the lack of a year contract. Granted they have their problems, but overall, I have been happy with their service.

However, I must say, I am happy I know someone with Direct TV to get the NFL Ticket. Otherwise, I may need to get both Cox and DirecTv

What is the current standard non-PVR HD Converter being used by Cox?

A friend of mine may need to get one. Does it have a DVI or HDMI connection?

Originally posted by Tallen234
What is the current standard non-PVR HD Converter being used by Cox?

A friend of mine may need to get one. Does it have a DVI or HDMI connection?

The SA3250HD. Check out the link in vegggas' signature for full info on the unit.

Originally posted by Tallen234
ALthough I am a bit ticked at Cox due to the Padre fiasco. IMO the only reason to get Direct TV is for the NFL Sunday ticket. I love the fact that you do not need to go out of pocket (I know, you "rent" it with cox) for the hardware. The Direct TV HD Tivo originally came out at $1000. You can rent the Cox SA8000 for $10 a month. Then if you want to upgrade to the 8300 you can do that with no penalty. When the next great Direct TV tuner comes out, you will have to buy that. I like the flexibility with Cox and the lack of a year contract. Granted they have their problems, but overall, I have been happy with their service.

However, I must say, I am happy I know someone with Direct TV to get the NFL Ticket. Otherwise, I may need to get both Cox and DirecTv

That's not entirely true. Nobody knows exactly the future of the Directv HD STB's since they are switching to the new sats and MPEG4. Most people think they will be replaced free. Plus if you have a receiver that works great why would you want to trade. I personally like Directv better because I want lower monthly fees (IE no rental fees) and because when I have called Directv their CSR's were nice to me (this is definatly not true with Cox on a couple of occasions.) Now I know for some people it is the other way around. That's what makes having choices so good :D .

Once again, a technical question.

I have made the decision to add Direct TV to my system, even though I already have Cox Cables 8300HD. The reason for this is the increased availability of sports networks and packages which Direct TV has and Cox doesn't.

I already own a Direct TV HD Satellite receiver A "Hughes" model, which I was satisfied with (and have storaged) before I moved to my previous location where a satellite could not be used because of apartment positioning, facing north. I am going to retain Cox simply for its local HD network and movie channel service. Thus there will be some redundancy in which a given broadcast can be found on each system. But the Network HD transmissions are not available on Direct TV, so for them amd the movie channels only, I must retain the Cox package.

However, I have some connectivity questions.
1. My satellite receiver does NOT have an HDMI or DVI output. I will have to use the Component Video jacks for that unit. No problem there

2. I will now be connecting the Cox 8300HD to my TV via the HDMI output/input connection ports. My question is ....using those ports will I be able to use the "Upconvert 1" setting on the 8300HD so that I can receive the HD stations in 1080i and the SD stations in 480p? I use that setting right now with the box (using the Component Video ports) and much prefer that to SD stations being upconverted to 1080i.

I look forward to satisying my sports cravings. Especially for baseball. I will get the MLB package, the Fox Sports Networks, and (if I choose in the fall--the NFL package). If I don't purchase the NFL package, Direct TV has informed me that I may suspend service after the baseball season is concluded in early November (at the latest) and will be charged NOTHING until I reactivate service in late March 2006. This is different from what I was previously told regarding a $12.95 suspension fee during the months of Nov to Mar. But even if that fee applies, it's OK with me.

If more people took this kind of action, you would see just how fast Cox Cable would carry the Fox Sports Networks, and make EVERY CONCEIVABLE effort (within the parameters of legality) to obtain the NFL package as well.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
I am going to retain Cox simply for its local HD network and movie channel service. Thus there will be some redundancy in which a given broadcast can be found on each system.

If more people took this kind of action, you would see just how fast Cox Cable would carry the Fox Sports Networks, and make EVERY CONCEIVABLE effort (within the parameters of legality) to obtain the NFL package as well.

What message does that send to Cox? They're still getting your money!

The NFL package is exclusive to DirecTV for many years to come.

Originally posted by gworkman
What message does that send to Cox? They're still getting your money!

The NFL package is exclusive to DirecTV for many years to come.

The message it sends is that people are dissatisfied and are searching for alternatives to Cox. True, they are still getting my money. But when Direct Tv gets ITS act totally together and begins to offer local network and movie channel programming in HD, Cox Cable is gonna be left "grabbing its groin". And with the promised launch of several new satellites by the end of the year, Direct TV is well on its way to that position.
Methinks, Mr. Workman, that you are far too ready to accept the status quo. In order to get a system to change and update, agitators, must agitate.

Do you have an answer to my question??

Thanks

I have both Directtv HD and Cox HD DVR's. I can tell you that unless Cox improves it's software to

1) make it more customer friendly - especially when watching a recording of a program that is still running real time and
2) eliminate all the dropouts and HD/SD switches in the middle of programs

that once DTV gets local HD programming, there will be no reason to get COX HD and plenty of reasons not to.

Question for Vegass........anything I have to do special to get the upgrade on the 8000 or does it import automatically?

Unfortunately, I think Direct TV knows that one of the biggest things separating itself from cable is the NFL package. That is why they bought the EXCLUSIVE rights to the NFL ticket. They paid through the roof for it. I am too lazy right now to look it up, but I think they have exclusive rights for 4 or 5 years.

The disconnect I see about all of this, is that there are consumers out there who are willing to pay extra for additional services, but cannot, due to exclusive rights and other regulatory issues. Although I am typically against government entanglement, for an oligopical structure such as TV broadcastings, the FCC should straighten this out. If you are willing to pay for it, you should get it. I know this is somewhat naive, but oh well, I haven't had enough caffine yet!


Originally posted by Word Maestro
If more people took this kind of action, you would see just how fast Cox Cable would carry the Fox Sports Networks, and make EVERY CONCEIVABLE effort (within the parameters of legality) to obtain the NFL package as well.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Word Maestro
Once again, a technical question.

2. I will now be connecting the Cox 8300HD to my TV via the HDMI output/input connection ports. My question is ....using those ports will I be able to use the "Upconvert 1" setting on the 8300HD so that I can receive the HD stations in 1080i and the SD stations in 480p? I use that setting right now with the box (using the Component Video ports) and much prefer that to SD stations being upconverted to 1080i.

[/QUOTE


I currently have my 8300hd hooked up with the HDMI to HDMI port on my Mits and also am using upconvert 1 to force 480i to 480p. I have tested both the upconvert 1 and the auto hdmi passthrough and , IMO, the upconvert to 480p on SD channels is more watchable, at least for me. 1080i is not a problem.

Thanks T_2k,

That is very helpful.

Vegggas, I know the unit you tested had an operational DVI, I was wondering if the box for the public has an operational DVI.
A friend of mine is getting a new Samsung 5063 with one DVI, one HDMI and one component. The component will be used for his outdated DVD player that he refuses to get rid of. So, I was hoping that the cable box could operate on the DVI (he doesn't want PVR (yes he is brain dead), so the 8300 with the HDMI won't work).

Thanks




Originally posted by trevor_2k
The SA3250HD. Check out the link in vegggas' signature for full info on the unit.

Answers and comments to questions above...

Tallen,
I don't have any special boxes. I use the same thing everyone else uses when I go down and pick one up at the Rancho location. I am on the Beta test list that gets frequent test software though. The 3250 has a DVI connection and it's been active for a while, although I don't use it, except for specific display testing) The 8000, also has DVI and it should be enabled now, or at the next software update scheduled for a next week release. If someone is using it now, chime in, I'm only have Component at that location. The 8300 has an HDMI port, which many have used an HDMI to DVI adapter cable to connect to DVI only displays. IMHO, there is very little difference between component and the digital outputs on CRT based display systems (better color saturation), and slight improvement on Digital display panels. YMMV, depending on display types and cables used (yes, even digital cables make a difference)

Goldyoda,
You mention dropouts and HD/SD switches in programs. The HD/SD changing is done by the local station. If/When D* get HD LIL in Vegas (market #51) they will be getting the same feeds with the same issues. These are easily verified by an OTA tuner too. Dolby Digital Audio dropouts within HD shows are a different issue and are being address with recent upgrades to the Cox Headend equipment, and the new patches from SA. I rarely, if ever, see this happen anymore, but I've been running beta software since last year and have excellent SN, forward and reverse data paths to my STB's...
Updates From Cox and SA are automatic. They typically happen during the 1-4 AM timeslot on Tuesday or Wednesday mornings. I have my STB's set to turn off every weeknight at 1:00AM to keep them fresh and in a known good state for downloads, but it's not necessary for a download to happen. The box will shut off and reset, and will be unwatchable while it updates - DO NOT REMOVE POWER OR RESET A STB GETTING A DOWNLOAD. Wait for it to finish, and then press power to turn it on.

Word,
To send a message to Cox, they would be more interested if you "dropped" service packages to go to D*. If you called and asked them to cancel or suspend your extended basic and other packages and channels because you were turning on D* for the baseball package, THAT would get their attention. It sems that dropping the extended basic channels (18 - 79) via Cox, would probably save you a chunk of change and that's where most of the duplicated channels would reside on D* anyway. YMMV, depending on what channels you actually watch, etc.

vegggas

Amen to that!! I totally agree. Thanks Vegggas!!

Originally posted by trevor_2k
vegggas-

I, for one, would just like to say thank you for all the work that you are doing and have done for this Las Vegas HDTV community on the AVS Forum. I am actually getting sick of the people who just bitch and moan all day, and don't actually try to learn about what is going on. Thank you for your efforts in explaining so many of the intricacies of the telecommunications industry to those who feel they know it all, but don't know squat.

For those who will be angered by this post, before you start typing up your response, go back and read through all 100 pages of this thread and tell me who has contributed more useful information to this community than any other party?

Thanks.

T-2K and jb1219 said the following,

"I am actually getting sick of the people who just bitch and moan all day, and don't actually try to learn about what is going on."

----------------------------------------------------------------
If you're talking about me, I DO try to learn what's going on. I both, ask questions and hold strong, INFORMED opinions.

As far as bitching and moaning is concerned....take two aspirins and try to get a good nights sleep. I will bitch and moan to my hearts content without worrying about whether or not it makes YOU sick.

Originally posted by Word Maestro

Stop making excuses for them Vegggas!!!. If you have connections and clout, use it to help satisfy the demands of the bill payers.



I will say it for many of us on here. Your being a ass. You sound like a spoiled child because he cant get all the baseball in the world. I am only 38 but I remember a time in St Louis when we got very few Cards road games and for national games some networks game of the week. Chill out. Vegggas does not work for you or me.

Originally posted by Word Maestro

Methinks, Mr. Workman, that you are far too ready to accept the status quo. In order to get a system to change and update, agitators, must agitate.



Not to get into a pissing contest with you, but, if you read my responses...I stated that I have DirecTV and I dropped Cox cable.

Your show has gotten old Word.

speco2003 said,

"I will say it for many of us on here. Your being a ass. You sound like a spoiled child because he cant get all the baseball in the world. I am only 38 but I remember a time in St Louis when we got very few Cards road games and for national games some networks game of the week. Chill out. Vegggas does not work for you or me."
_________________________________________
No, of course Vegggas doesn't work for you or me. But as informative as he's been and as appreciative as I am of his help, he does (to me at times) come off as an excuse maker for Cox. I don't attribute anything such as an ulterior motive to this, it's just the way it sometimes appears to me. He's a big boy and I'm sure he loses no sleep over my criticism. Nor will he bestow an extra kiss on your forehead each night for your brave defense of him.

I grew up in the NY Metropolitan area. I had access to ALL the Yankee and Met games played each season. Plus of course the national games, wherever and whenever they were played. Perhaps I am spoiled? But I want all the baseball there is to get. Why does that seem to bother you? I'm not asking for it to be delivered to me free of charge. I am willing to pay for the privilege of watching as mamy games as possible. And in todays modern electronic world it IS possible for Cox to offer lots more in the way of baseball than they do. They just have to have their feet held to the fire.

I'm sorry you had such a deprived childhood in St. Louis..

PS- And I think it is rather presumptuous of you to think you are "speaking for many on here". You are speaking only for yourself. As I am. Do you feel you have to be surrounded by a friendly army to say anything? I don't.

On a less contentious note, let me say that today, I switched the connections of my 8300HD to my TV. I now have them connected by an HDMI cable of highest quality... ($109) for a 4M cable. And I'm now reserving the Component Video connections on my HDTV for my new Direct TV installation (in addition to--not substituting for, Cox).

One benefit (so far not discussed) of using the HDMI cable is that not only is the picture quality marginally improved, but all audio-video synchronization problems have disappeared. No longer does the audio occasionally precede the video by any annoying time increment.

I want to exchange my 3250HD for a 8300HD. The 50" set I have only has a DVI input (the 42" has a HDMI) so I am lookiing for a source for a HDMI to DVI adapter. Does BB or one of the local stores carry these or should I check online? I prefer to just pick one up locally but don't want to shop and have the clerks look like I am nuts when I ask for the adapter. I have a 3meter DVI cable now.

Thanks

I finally got tired of waiting for the long promised software upgrade to fix the audio drop out issues on my SA 8000 HD box. I called Cox at 10:00AM yesterday and by noon a tech was out my house switching the box for the 8300. He also checked my signal strength adn said it was fine.

We watched several HD shows last night that I had recorded on the new box and we did not experience even a single audio drop out.

NevadaJack:

I ordered a HDMI to DVI cable on line at www.bluejeanscable.com. I have ordered from them before and they ship promptly.

Thanks...considerate it ordered...:-)
NevadaJack:

I ordered a HDMI to DVI cable on line at www.bluejeanscable.com. I have ordered from them before and they ship promptly. [/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by NevadaJack
I want to exchange my 3250HD for a 8300HD. The 50" set I have only has a DVI input (the 42" has a HDMI) so I am lookiing for a source for a HDMI to DVI adapter. Does BB or one of the local stores carry these or should I check online? I prefer to just pick one up locally but don't want to shop and have the clerks look like I am nuts when I ask for the adapter. I have a 3meter DVI cable now.

Thanks

There is no "adapter" per se. There is simply one cable with an HDMI connector on one end and a DVI connector on the other. Many manufacturers produce them but yheir quality varies. Choose a "Monster" cable product. Not cheap. But it fulfills your expectations.

Available at just about any electronic store INCLUDING Radio Shack and Fryes. If you're lppking to save money, don't bother with the cable. It turns out that "cheap" becomes "expensive" when you aren't satisfied. Buy the best, the first time.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
There is no "adapter" per se. There is simply one cable with an HDMI connector on one end and a DVI connector on the other. Many manufacturers produce them but yheir quality varies. Choose a "Monster" cable product. Not cheap. But it fulfills your expectations.

Available at just about any electronic store INCLUDING Radio Shack and Fryes.

Thanks...I have a Monster DVI now and it works fine with the 3250HD. I rarely buy anything at Radio Shack but will try BB or Fry's when I get the 8300HD or order one on line.

Just found this on OneCall for $29.95. It is a Monster Adapter. There 1 meter cable is $99.95.

This is the Monster site picture of the item VAHDMIDVISL

http://www.monstercable.com/productShowResultsAdv.asp This will only show the page not the item...put in the item # above in search.

This would seem to be what is necessary to connect the Male HDMI to the 8300HD and the DVI Female to the DVI Cable.

BestBuyy has adapters for this. Dont pay alot for any cable use the great sponsors on here or use what the pros use Markertek.com

Originally posted by Word Maestro



I'm sorry you had such a deprived childhood in St. Louis..

PS- And I think it is rather presumptuous of you to think you are "speaking for many on here". You are speaking only for yourself. As I am. Do you feel you have to be surrounded by a friendly army to say anything? I don't.

OK I will say it just for me then, your being an ass. No army just me.

Not to pile on WM, but Monster Cables are VERY overrated and expensive for what you get. They spend a lot of their money on marketing and it shows. Moreover, they are one of the only "premium" cables available at most retail stores. I think of Monster sorta like Sam Adams beer, it is not a microbrew, there are much better alternatives, but is is available in a lot of places, so it will do in a pinch.


You can get an equivilent, if not a better cable elsewhere. Someone recommended bluejeans cables, I would second that recommendation.


Here are a couple threads on it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=517483&highlight=monster+cable


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=513594&highlight=monster+cable

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=504882&highlight=monster+cable
Originally posted by Word Maestro
There is no "adapter" per se. There is simply one cable with an HDMI connector on one end and a DVI connector on the other. Many manufacturers produce them but yheir quality varies. Choose a "Monster" cable product. Not cheap. But it fulfills your expectations.

Available at just about any electronic store INCLUDING Radio Shack and Fryes. If you're lppking to save money, don't bother with the cable. It turns out that "cheap" becomes "expensive" when you aren't satisfied. Buy the best, the first time.

Originally posted by Tallen234
Not to pile on WM, but Monster Cables are VERY overrated and expensive for what you get.

Pile on, all you like. I'm confident in the acumen and correctness of my purchases, and have had nothing but SATISFACTION with any Monster Cables (both audio and video) that I purchased in the past. You attribute many ulterior motives to the way Monster does business. I couldn't care less. I like their products and am willing to "pay" for them. Anybody else is free to do as they please.

Thats true word, we are just trying to keep others from spending too much.

I never said their products were of poor quality, just that they were incredibly overpriced. I have purchased Monster products in a pinch, when I needed a cable and didn't want to wait to order off of the 'net.

For someone who has been vociferously pro-consumer in his attacks on Cox, I thought you might be interested in Monster's long history of gouging the consumer. However, as you said, you are willing to pay for Monster's product which is certainly your prerogative. Although others may not be willing to be so charitable and may wish to purchase the same quality product for 1/4 the price. To each his own, I guess.




Originally posted by Word Maestro
Pile on, all you like. I'm confident in the acumen and correctness of my purchases, and have had nothing but SATISFACTION with any Monster Cables (both audio and video) that I purchased in the past. You attribute many ulterior motives to the way Monster does business. I couldn't care less. I like their products and am willing to "pay" for them. Anybody else is free to do as they please.

Any new word on the Padres on Cox?

Originally posted by Tallen234
Any new word on the Padres on Cox?

Not from my end...maybe they will surprise us like last year. Was jumping channels and there were the Padres in living HD and they stayed there for the rest of the year...

Monday was very bad and tiring day for me. Here's why.

When I had ny 8300HD connected to my HDTV via the Component Video ports, I operated it in the "Upconvert 1" mode, thus receiving SD pictures in 480p and HD pictures in 1080i. Pretty good.

But since I am always seeking the last teaspoonful of perfection from my system, I opted to use the HDMI ports (on box and TV).. I tried to configure the box to continue to operate in the Upconvert 1 mode, now using the HDMI port.

BIG PROBLEM!!
1. The "Program Guide" came up only after the picture disappeared, then reappeared, and the guide appeared fuzzy. This happened whether I was in the 480p or the 1080i mode.

2. If I did that in the 480p mode, and then (after closing the guide) switched to an HD station (700 to 735) the picture STAYED in the narrow 480p mode, . I was unable to get it back in 1080i HD. Shutting down everything and starting over, restored order. So I marched down to the Cox office and swapped (what It thought was a defective box) for another 8300HD unit. I quickly went home, connected the box, and the SAME DAMNED THING happened. I called Cox, and they offered to swap boxes again. Back to the office I went, and true to their word they swapped em'again. So you guess what happened when I installed the third box of the day? Yep, you're right. THE SAME THING. By now I was pulling out my remaining hair. I called Cox and they said to speak to a technician named Joey (who is their resident expert on format choices), tomorrow.


Here is what I suspect is the explanation. ;

When using the Component Video ports, there is still a small (but visible) lessening of PQ in the SD mode, unless you Upconvert to 480p. And that can be easily done.

But using the HDMI ports, the picture and sound are all digital to start with. If you use the "Auto HDMI/DVI" setting on the format screen and set your Wizard at 1080i ONLY, the PQ on the SD stations (because they are now all digital) is comparable to the 480p upconverted picture on the SD stations when you use the Component Video ports.

This is just a guess on my part. I'm waiting to speak to "Joey" tomorrow. I''ll let you all know what he says.

Word...I have no problems with HDMI - HMDi using either Auto HDMI or Upconvert1. I have enabled both 480i,480p,1080i in the wizard. I really cant see much diff in pic quality using upconvert 480p except on a few SD channels. The program guide is not fuzzy except some of the fat numbers that get stretched, but that may be because my TV has been professionally calibrated yet. BUT,, I do get the resolution stick problem occasionally, but it eventually gets back to 1080 after another channel change to PBS or Discovery Channel HD. Or, hitting the "#" button sometimes re-forces the 1080i.

gvc,

Let me first thank you for your response.

I just spoke to "Joey" (resident "format guru" at Cox).

He said that my problem was one that is frequently encountered by HDMI connecter users. He said that Cox merely has enabled HDMI service but has not even begun to work out the bugs in the system regarding it. The enabling of the connector was done in response to a clamor for it, but he admits that it was done too hastily .
Anyway, he was absolutely the first technician I spoke to at Cox that seemed to know what he was talking about, and understood exactly the problem I was describing. He did not offer any solutions that would not work. He counseled patience, and he said they were working on it, and expect to have it straightened out within a month. Meanwhile I am using the "Auto HDMI/CVI" format and forcing everything to 1080i. I have to say that it seems to be comparable or better, than any orevious settings via any other connectors. I can "live" with this until a better solution arises.

However, if everybody at Cox was as knowledgable and reasonable as "Joey", my complaints about them would drop by 90%. Sadly that is NOT the case. The 'Customer Service" and the so called "technicians" don't usually know s**t from shinola, but wouldn't dare admit it. They will lie to you just to get you off the phone. And as a result things usually go from bad to worse.

Anyone out in Summerlin having modem issues? One of my coworkers has had dropouts and even tried new modems and it still drops. Tech was out and it worked fine for 5 mins after he left then went south again.

Originally posted by speco2003
Anyone out in Summerlin having modem issues? One of my coworkers has had dropouts and even tried new modems and it still drops. Tech was out and it worked fine for 5 mins after he left then went south again.

I get dropouts periodically in Summerlin. At one point it got so bad I called Cox. They did something from the office and the dropouts decreased dramatically but I still get them occasionally.

Word, and others,
There should be a firmware update hopefully tonight (~1-4AM) or sometime very soon that has been in testing for several months here in Vegas. One of the issues found during testing was auto settings not holding the resolution. If you check the 8300 setup guide in the recorders section (by DoubleDaz, since he got one b4 me) there are lots of comments concerning the upgrade, the problems and the fixes.
The update, when released, is a variation of the 1.87 code with specific settings for Las Vegas. It appears to include the SATA drive mapping to include extended storage and many other features and fixes. The 8000 will also get the same kernal upgrade, but due to physical limitations, it will not be exactly the same.
I, of course, have nothing to do with the upgrade, but I've been using it for several months as it gets updated and the bugs get worked out. I've been told that it was to be released this week to the general public. Typically, Tuesday or Wednesday mornings, mid month, are software release times...

vegggas

Is anyone watching American Idol tonight (yes, I hate to admit that it is on, but I am also doing work at home, so I am not really watching it ;) ). But there are a lot of drop-outs during the songs. Anyone know the cause? Is this a cox thing or my equipment? Running the 8000 to a Denon 2803. It is broadcasting in Dolby Digital.

Every song has one or two long drop outs. This is very unusual. NOrmally there are 2-3 small dropouts during a regular one hour show.

Any ideas?

Originally posted by Tallen234
Is anyone watching American Idol tonight (yes, I hate to admit that it is on, but I am also doing work at home, so I am not really watching it ;) ). But there are a lot of drop-outs during the songs. Anyone know the cause? Is this a cox thing or my equipment? Running the 8000 to a Denon 2803. It is broadcasting in Dolby Digital.

Every song has one or two long drop outs. This is very unusual. NOrmally there are 2-3 small dropouts during a regular one hour show.

Any ideas?

Had the same problem here in Summerlin. I switched to Channel 5 from HD and there were no dropouts. Really an unacceptable rate of dropouts...running 3250HD using DVI connection.

Jack

Same problem with dropouts. Had to switch to 125. Must have been the signal.

Well I wonder with the recent news if we will ever get a Tivo box for Cox. A HD Tivo box for Cox will lock me in to Cox indefinitely!

Originally posted by foghorn2
Well I wonder with the recent news if we will ever get a Tivo box for Cox. A HD Tivo box for Cox will lock me in to Cox indefinitely!

What recent news?

Hopefully they will but who knows. I guess it depends on the contract they have with SA. With a cablecard TiVo it should work on any cable system. That's what cracks me up with each area SA has boxes in. They should standardize the boxes. It makes no sense to have different software here then they have in Phoenix or San Diego. I know I love both of my Directv DVR's powered by TiVo.

I guess we are not going to get the NCAA tournament multicast this year on Cox.....haven't heard or read anything about it.

The recent news is that TiVo is going to make DVR's for Comcast customers the same way they do for Directv. I haven't heard of any of the specs for the box so I don't know if they will have dual tuners or not or if there is going to be an HD model or not. It is suppost to be out mid 2006.

Originally posted by tazlv
I guess we are not going to get the NCAA tournament multicast this year on Cox.....haven't heard or read anything about it.


I heard on channel 8 local news that cox would be broadcasting all the regions on digital channels just like last year. I dont remember the exact channel numbers, but they are in the 300 range ..enjoy !

Tivo-Comcast Thread link HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5330341#post5330341)

lvthunder,
It's my impression that Tivo is NOT making any boxes, but lending their guide data and software to CURRENT Comcast DVR boxes from Motorola and possibly SA.
SA has different versions of software based on the hardware and applications in use at any location. Just like PC's, no two will ever be alike once you start adding applications because the drivers will be unique to the system, based on your preferences. A standalone Tivo box will not have to support any other software or hardware (it's cable card standardized), so it will not have to rely on software from the headend.

NCAA Madness, etc.
CBS is offering the main Basketball feed on it's HD channel, but I'm not sure which channels will carry the other feeds yet. So far, no press release, as usual.

Tons of LOOOONG dropouts last night on Fox's AI. Not the usual Digital to analog dropouts we get on the STB's, but appeared more to be a feed issue from the origination. Dropouts were reported across the US, on Cable, Sat and OTA.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
Word, and others,
There should be a firmware update hopefully tonight (~1-4AM) or sometime very soon that has been in testing for several months here in Vegas. One of the issues found during testing was auto settings not holding the resolution. If you check the 8300 setup guide in the recorders section (by DoubleDaz, since he got one b4 me) there are lots of comments concerning the upgrade, the problems and the fixes.
The update, when released, is a variation of the 1.87 code with specific settings for Las Vegas. ...

vegggas

Well,, I haven't check the diagnostic screen yet for the software version number, but I will tell you that channel surfing through the HD 700 channels through HDMI is faster and the resolution stays at 1080i. Prior to this I could start at Discovery 700 which would come through at 1080i but by the time I got to IND2 the resolution on the box would change back to 480 and stay there.

Originally posted by vegggas


NCAA Madness, etc.
CBS is offering the main Basketball feed on it's HD channel, but I'm not sure which channels will carry the other feeds yet. So far, no press release, as usual.

vegggas


Here is the link to the tournament TV schedule locally...cox wil lbe using 337,338, 339
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3080544&nav=168aXW01

Well I went to Rancho today and picked up my 8300HD. Came home and plugged in the HDMI/DVI connection and turned it on. It booted and showed the Boot Screen Data. I hit Exit and it opened on Channel 1. Clicked through the lower channels and they looked good. Went to 700 and quickly got a not-authorized for HD. Clicked on 200 and also got the not-authorized. Tried to go back to the lower channels and got the 4 solid dashes and the Red Warning that the box is not authorized.

I called the number on the screen and got a technician who said she would send the signal to the set. She sent the signal, went through the boot and then back to 4 dashes and the Red Warning Not Authorized. She said the 4 dashes indicated no signal and she would have to send out a tech. He is due tomorrow between 3-5.

Everything was fine with my 3250 this morning. Everything looked fine when the lower channels appeared. But all turned to s*** when I switched to channel 700. Tech said all levels looked fine on her end. So has anyone an idea of what might be the problem other than a bad box that blew something in the first minute? I looked at the Boot Screen Data on page one and all looked okay with no warnings. It will boot if I unplug it and replug it...and also I can go to the boot screen data...but only once, after that it reverts to 4 dashes and the Red Warning.

I am using a Monster DVI cable which I used on the 3250 box and a Monster HDMI to DVI adapter that I bought at BB this morning. Not a happy camper at this point. If anyone has some suggestions to check on the install let me know.

Jack

I just hooked up the component video connections from the 8300 and I get no signal. I can tell it is going through the same boot procedures by watching the LED on the box. It ends up with 4 dashes. I cannot change the Input number for the set to (#5) since there is no signal coming to the set.

So I guess this would indicate that it is the box and not my HDMI/DVI cable hookup. If the DVI connection was not working I would not see the Red Warning signal about the box not working, correct?

BTW, the cable also supplies my HSI connection to my computer and the HD set in the bedroom is working fine with a DVI to HDMI conversion cable (Monster) from a 3250HD box.

I just called Cox again and asked them to resend the signal to activate the 8300. Guess what...it works and on the first try. He said perhaps the tech did not follow the correct procedure or made some kind of error in the signal????? Anyway, I am glad I called and asked them to try again.

Now to find out how this thing works...

Jack:)

It took ONLY a half-hour to get a competent tech???!!!!!!!!!Must be a record!! (according to your post times) When I call it's usually routed to Georgia, and no better there......Congrats, and enjoy!!!

The previous 3 or 4 posts explain why I often get frustrated and pissed off at Cox. They just can't seem to do anything right on the first or second try.

With the new box I got on Monday, the program guide seems to have some added information which is very valuable for selections of programs.

When you scroll through the guide (either left to right, or up and down) a TRUE HD program will be indicated by a large yellow and black HD poster in the upper left hand window of the guide.

When tuned lets say to the 11 PM news on channel 730, the progran is obviously "digital", but not widescreen (and for my money NOT HD). For such programs that yellow and black label DOES NOT appear in the upper left hand window. This system aids in your decisions as to what to record (Ex: HD or not).

In addition TODAY, the new box seems to be holding the selected resolution. Changing any of the channels (700 to 735) does not cause the box to lose its widescreen image (unlesx of course the actual program is not widescreen). Perhaps the software update that Vegggas was talking about WAS indeed applied last night?

GVC,
As soon as I posted my response this morning, I saw your post about the March Madness being on the news, and heard about it again later today. Just goes to show that timing is everything :)

NevadaJack,
Well I went to Rancho today and picked up my 8300HD. Came home and plugged in the HDMI/DVI connection and turned it on. It booted and showed the Boot Screen Data. I hit Exit and it opened on Channel 1. Clicked through the lower channels and they looked good. Went to 700 and quickly got a not-authorized for HD. Clicked on 200 and also got the not-authorized. Tried to go back to the lower channels and got the 4 solid dashes and the Red Warning that the box is not authorized.

The first part concerns me. A typical SA DVR box without any software will take about 15 minutes for a COMPLETE software download. When I get brand new STB's sealed in the box from SA, they do take about 15 min to download all the local software and data before they can be used. They will usually show a countdown timer after about 2-3 minutes. Once the DVR has been on the system, it only needs an update to the software and authorization.
When you hit EXIT, there is the possibility that you interrupted the download and had some unknown error. This could have forced the STB into "brick mode" until it slowly downloaded the applications in the background. The four dashes are also a sign that this serial number has been hit with a deactivation code. When that deactivation code was cleared, they were able to send a reactivation code attached to your account. Deactivation codes are automatically sent out whenever a STB has not responded in a long time, or appears on another node where it's not authorized. This prevents someone from stealing your box and using it for their own personal use.

Can someone go into their diagnostics mode and check their software revision (as listed in the first post of my SA800 thread in my sig)? I would like to verify that the release was sent for the 8000 and the 8300. If I can get verification, I can help you guys out a lot more once we are on the same software level. There have been so many changes during the Beta test, I'm no longer sure when one feature was added, or if you are still running old code.
My current OS for both the 8000 and 8300 is SARA 1.87.16.1

If you have the new software, you may have to go and check your personalized settings. Mine always get reset, but then again, during a beta test I get reformatted and start over a lot too, so it may just be my penalty for early testing.

vegggas

I went into the diagnostic page 17 and my SARA data is: 1.87.16.1 dtd 2/25/05
OS is 6.14.11.1 dtd 2/24/05 ROM Image is 1.87.16.1 dtd 2/25/05

What you say may have happened but the box did provide a picture on the low channels and only when I went to HD and Digital did the box not authorized show up. The signal the second time was only about a minute and I was in full operating mode. The unit was in a sealed SA box.

Hope this provides some information for you.

Jack

Jack,
Thanks for the feedback!
It looks like you have the latest firmware update and now I'm just one of the regular folks again. I still think your STB had the download interrupted, and that caused the problems, especially if it was new and in a sealed box. After it got the download finished in the background, it was able to be authorized and started working. Your response time of actually seeing a channel before going to not authorized status is about average - less than one minute for the STB and Headend to talk to eachother.

Those of you with the 8000 series DVRs should also see the same software. With the new kernel, things should be MUCH better. Software wise, they are the same unit as the 8300 now, it's just the hardware differences now that seperate them. In laymans terms, the 8000 should now be overall better than the 8300 was last week. If it meets your expectations, there is not much difference in getting the 8300 in terms of software changes or fixes.

vegggas

What buttons need to be pressed to bring up the diagnostic pages on the 8300HD? I'm asking because I'm curious, but wouldn;'t understand one thing that I was able to read on them.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
What buttons need to be pressed to bring up the diagnostic pages on the 8300HD? I'm asking because I'm curious, but wouldn;'t understand one thing that I was able to read on them.

Hold down Select on the front of the box until the Mail logo shows on the LCD, then click on Info. Page 1, 2 and 17 is about all I can make any sense out of.

See Vegggas post earlier and also see the 8000 info by clicking on the first item in his signature.

Jack

Nevada....when I first got my 8300hd , the same thing happened as far as getting the ---- on the display after initial boot up. I wasnt able to get any of my suscribed channels either. The CSR had to reactivate all my subscriptions. It took about 10 minutes but everything eventually came through ok and I was good to go.

URGGG!

They are having problems with the dedicated NCAA tourney feeds. I am taking off work to watch the UK game at 9:20 and I am getting a blank grey screen. I was getting sound earlier. I called the CSR and she told me that they were aware of the problem. In the info menu is says that it is HD, but it can't be as it is channel 337. I hope it is not as simple a fix as turn off the HD feed and make it SD.

Frustrating. Now I have me PVR recording nothing. Woo-hoo.

I just upgraded to the 8300HD and one of the reasons was because I wanted the simultaneous s-video out to work. For some reason, it works for a while, but then goes blank. Is anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,
Gergg

Originally posted by gergg
I just upgraded to the 8300HD and one of the reasons was because I wanted the simultaneous s-video out to work. For some reason, it works for a while, but then goes blank. Is anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,
Gergg

Be more specific...Is it
1. Works, stops, works, stops, works, stops, etc

2. Or is it Works, then stops and that's it?

If it's the former, sounds like a loose or defective cable
If its the latter, your box is probably at fault.

Has anyone in Vegas successfully added a SATA drive to the SA 8300 HD as described in thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=516559&perpage=20&pagenumber=1?

Before I buy the 250-300GB SATA drive, external enclosure and SATA 1 to SATAII external cable I would like to confirm that the SATA port on the local Vegas box works.

Thanks.

To be more specific, it works, then stops, then works (sometimes), then stops, etc.
I do think it could be a loose cable, but everytime I try to tighten it, there is only so much I can do since it is s-video. I just wanted to make sure that it was a connector problem and not a known problem with the s-video port on the 8300HD. For now, since it seems to be a port/cable problem I am using the composite out and, although it does not look as good as the s-video, it seems to work fine. Thanks.

-Gergg

PC World hd article snippets :

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,119560,pg,1,00.asp

"Today you can count 17 so-called 24/7 national HD networks, including Discovery HD Theater and ESPN HD. Some of these, such as HDNet, actually do broadcast all-HD, all the time. But a network with "HD" in its name may not offer nonstop high-definition programs. ESPN's signature SportsCenter show has been telecast in HD since last June, but both ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD (launched in early 2005) include standard-definition analog programming. Altogether, ESPN's two high-definition networks expect to show about 2000 programs (totaling 6000 hours of viewing time) in HD this year.


good news:

"At least six more HD services are on the horizon. For foodies, high-def satisfaction is about a year away. Soon Food Network, HomeA & Garden Television, Fine Living, and DIY (Do-It-Yourself Network) will create test programs shot in HD, for an HD-only network that Scripps plans to launch in late 2005 or 2006, says John Lansing, president of Scripps Networks. The Outdoor Channel is scheduled to launch in HD this year, too."

bad news:

"High-definition picture quality is expensive for cable and satellite operators, too: Each HD channel consumes about six times the valuable bandwidth capacity of a standard-definition digital channel. That's a big issue for satellite providers in particular, and it's the reason that you probably won't ever see high-def versions of every single channel on cable today. Given finite bandwidth, companies may choose not to offer niche HD channels so they can sell more lucrative services, such as video-on-demand or Internet telephony"
"

Whats the difference how many new HD channels there are or will be?
If your cable company or satellite provider doesn't carry them, they may as well not exist at all. A way has to be found to compress the signal at the transmitting end and to decompress the signal at the receiving end.

Lacking that, HD will sooner or later go the way of betamax.

Originally posted by OrangeKid
Has anyone in Vegas successfully added a SATA drive to the SA 8300 HD as described in thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=516559&perpage=20&pagenumber=1?

Before I buy the 250-300GB SATA drive, external enclosure and SATA 1 to SATAII external cable I would like to confirm that the SATA port on the local Vegas box works.

Thanks.

For all intensive purposes, it should work. Look at the diagnostic pages and see the External HDD information and diagnostics, etc. Be warned that it is NOT YET SUPPORTED, but the software is there and available. Use at your own risk. I am, however, waiting for the SATAII drives and cables to hit the market in the next few months. The link out is SATAII, but SATA 1.0 "should" meet the requirements for data and encryption, etc. I would hate to have my recorded material have dropouts and issues associated with anything externally.
If you are interested in trying it out, I would say "go for it". Also note that the cable mentioned DOES work, but beware of trying alternate cables from other sources. Many stores are selling SATAII cables as a spec for data, but with a SATAI connector that will NOT work.

WordWhats the difference how many new HD channels there are or will be?
If your cable company or satellite provider doesn't carry them, they may as well not exist at all. A way has to be found to compress the signal at the transmitting end and to decompress the signal at the receiving end.

Lacking that, HD will sooner or later go the way of betamax.
Ummm, The HD you see IS Compressed. It is heavily compressed at very extreme rates, currently at mpeg2 standards and beyond. The next generation of Codecs for H.264 variations of Mpeg4 will yield some better compression results, but there is waaaaaay to much data involved.
Typical uncompressed video specs:
720p HDTV uncompressed;
8 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 110.48 MB per/sec, or 398 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 121.52 MB per/sec, or 438 GB per/hr.

1080i and 1080p HDTV uncompressed;
8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24fps = 99.53 MB per/sec, or 358 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24fps = 109.43 MB per/sec, or 394 GB per/hr.

8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps = 103.68 MB per/sec, or 373 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps = 114.05 MB per/sec, or 411 GB per/hr.

8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 124.29 MB per/sec, or 447 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 136.72 MB per/sec, or 492 GB per/hr.

Those are for storage in MegaBYTES per second. To convert to data stream length in Megabits per second, it is roughly 8x the above rates.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 136.72 MB per/sec, or 492 GB per/hr translates to:
(2.2[bit depth]*(1920*1080[resolution frame size])*29.97[frames per second in each field] = 136720742.4 bytes per second at 1093765939.2 bits per second (1.09 GB/sec) for one video data stream.
The compression ratios in use actually go from about 1 gig per second of data down to a clipped peak level of 19.2 megabits per second, with an average data rate around only 15 - 12 Megbits per second.
The more compression done, the more artifacts and blocking will be seen in the video. Look at typical video over the internet to see how compression levels affect the picture...

Class dismissed.

vegggas
edit - I forgot to add that to encapsulate the above 1.09 Gbps raw video data into an IP stream for transport over a network of any type, the overhead would be closer to around 1.5Gbps.
v

Vegggas,

That was a very scholarly reply to my comment that they had to find a way to compress the signal. It no doubt required intense research on your part, and was complete and voluminous in data. But of course to the average viewer (which I consider myself to be) it is meaningless.
To me the most important part of your reply is the following paragraph....

"The more compression done, the more artifacts and blocking will be seen in the video. Look at typical video over the internet to see how compression levels affect the picture..."

My point was that I am well aware that compression increases the # of artifacts and the amount of blocking. But that the technicians simply have to find a way around that. If that isn't done, then all the tea in China will not get us the HD quantity and quality that we demand and deserve.
Not that HD is on the same level of significance or importance, but if scientists and technicians could manufacture a fission and a fusion explosive weapon, they ought to be able to solve this problem. And unless the public clamors loud and long, and holds the feet of the satellite providers and cable companies,to the fire, NOTHING will change. And instead the situation may further deteriorate.

My point was that I am well aware that compression increases the # of artifacts and the amount of blocking. But that the technicians simply have to find a way around that. If that isn't done, then all the tea in China will not get us the HD quantity and quality that we demand and deserve.
Simply isn't an option, and deserving is not a reason.
If simply and deserving were options, then Christopher Reeve would have walked again, Ray Charles would have seen again, and Johhny Carson would still be breathing. Simply and deserving wasn't an option, no matter how much they wanted or fought for it.
Things take time to develop and no amount of money or harrassment will make it go faster. The companies involved KNOW they want more, becuse they can make more money from it. When they see an investment and a possible profit, they attempt to make it happen. That's the nature of business.
There is very little reason or incentive for cable channels to go HD, other than trying to get more viewership. The investment is very large and the payback is limited. MSO's want to carry those channels, but are limited in bandwidth. If they could get rid of all the old analog stuff, which consumes at least 75% of the bandwidth, then they would have no problems being able to carry those feeds. Unfortunately, broadcasters have forced contracts that say that their channel, and their packaged extra channels MUST be carried on an analog tier that requires NO extra equipment (STB) for the customer to view. Until those contracts run out, they can't be rremoved from the analog tier, and even then, there is backlash from customers who still demand no STB's and that their old 1985 TV still picks up as many channels as possible.
More HD will be available to consumers eventually. Just don't expect an overnight surge in content. If you want more content immediately, simply buy and create your own HD network, like Mark Cuban did.

vegggas

Vegggas,

I don't think you are properly interpreting my use of the word "deserve".

All of Cox's customers are deserving. Because if we weren't willing and able to both buy their services and pay the bills, they would go out of business in a heartbeat. The essense of progress is competition. As long as Cox is the ONLY cable player on the block, they will take their sweet time in developing process', procedures and equipment which will provide the viewer with what he or she wants. The examples you offered of "deserving" situations are not comparable to the quest for scientific advancement in order to SATISFY customers.

And as you yourself said, "
There is very little reason or incentive for cable channels to go HD, other than trying to get more viewership".

What other incentive do they need??

Originally posted by Word Maestro
Vegggas,

I don't think you are properly interpreting my use of the word "deserve".

All of Cox's customers are deserving. Because if we weren't willing and able to both buy their services and pay the bills, they would go out of business in a heartbeat. The essense of progress is competition. As long as Cox is the ONLY cable player on the block, they will take their sweet time in developing process', procedures and equipment which will provide the viewer with what he or she wants. The examples you offered of "deserving" situations are not comparable to the quest for scientific advancement in order to SATISFY customers.

And as you yourself said, "
There is very little reason or incentive for cable channels to go HD, other than trying to get more viewership".

What other incentive do they need??

Cox does have competition. There are 2 satellite companies that compete with them all the time. I see the ugly dishes all over town. If it were not for the competition, I would have to had paid 1000 for a DTivo box and have less HD programming for more money. Cox stepped in with the SA8300 and more HD programming and I switched back.

As for HD content in relation to all of this, Cox only provides us with the content, they do not create it.

Originally posted by foghorn2
.

As for HD content in relation to all of this, Cox only provides us with the content, they do not create it.

Of course, I understand that. But they don't carry enough HD content. "Where there's a will, there's a way". If their bandwidth is limited, they should somehow acquire more bandwidth. That's what their customers should demand, and what they deserve.

Actually, a majority of their customers demand analog signals, so that's what they get. You can't "acquire" more bandwidth anymore than you can "acquire" a larger 5th appendage, even though you may see e-mails telling you otherwise. Sure, you could yank and pull all you want, but if anything "extra" is acquired, it's either only superficial, or breaks the whole thing, and causes problems.
We have one of the better HD lineups in the country. If you are not happy, go buy a D*HDTivo and a Voom system. That is what you are demanding and deserving. Where there is a will, there is a way...

vegggas

Originally posted by Word Maestro
Of course, I understand that. But they don't carry enough HD content. "Where there's a will, there's a way". If their bandwidth is limited, they should somehow acquire more bandwidth. That's what their customers should demand, and what they deserve.

Sure, I guess Playboy in Hi Def is out there and we can not get it.

I really could not give a damn! Look at all the SD channels, with all the crap on them, would we really watch them in HD?

And to watch them we would have to get ALL of them to get the one you want. EG. CNN in HD is what I would want, but I'd be paying for a package which included FOX in HD also along with ANGEL and other reLIEgous programming.

Word...As I posted earlier, your show is old. There are services to choose from. If you're restricted to your apartment, then so be it. Your choices are OTA or Cable. I, personally, am tired of reading your posts that constantly criticize others. Knock it off !!! This thread has been managed well and has been very informative. You keep adding flames here and turn it into one of those teenie bopper matches. Grow up !!!

Vegggas,

Has there been any further discussions regarding HD on demand, such as the HBO, MAX, Starz on demand channels?

Thanks,

T

Originally posted by Tallen234
Vegggas,
Has there been any further discussions regarding HD on demand, such as the HBO, MAX, Starz on demand channels?
Thanks,
T
I have not heard anything regarding the HD-VOD services. The current VOD system is SD only, and I believe that those servers are located in the various OTN's and primary nodes around the valley. I would assume that to make them into HD vod servers, the equipment would have to be replaced, but I'm unsure of exactly what is needed. If I get a chance to go have lunch with some of the Cox Headend Guys, I'll ask what it takes to make it happen.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
Actually, You can't "acquire" more bandwidth anymore than you can "acquire" a larger 5th appendage, even though you may see e-mails telling you otherwise.

vegggas


Damn........... you mean those things are not true...... oh woe is me....

Originally posted by gworkman
Word...As I posted earlier, your show is old. There are services to choose from. If you're restricted to your apartment, then so be it. Your choices are OTA or Cable. I, personally, am tired of reading your posts that constantly criticize others. Knock it off !!! This thread has been managed well and has been very informative. You keep adding flames here and turn it into one of those teenie bopper matches. Grow up !!!

Once again, we have a difference in what we think this forum is supposed to do/be. I ask questions which are designed to stimulate, and to question the motivations of both the satellite companies and Cox Cable. I don't believe I've "criticized" anyone except accusing Vegggas (a few times) of being an "excuse maker" for Cox Cable. I also said that I might be wrong regarding that impression.
The apartment I live in has NO limitations. I have a southern facing patio/balcony on which I have installed a DirectTV dish and also have Cox Cable which is providing me with an 8300HD and thus LOCAL HD service, which Direct TV does NOT provide. I am willing to spend money to satisfy my desires and have no wish to "jury-rig" any systems to force them to do what they are not designed to do. My main purpose in installing Direct Tv was to get the Fox Regional Sports Networks, which I now have (and which provides me with at least a choice of 3 spring training baseball games each day) and which Cox does NOT carry.

At present I am deciding which system (Sat. or Cable) will provide me with the better picture for the MLB "Extra Inning" baseball package
In order to make that decision, I need one more piece of information, and seeing that their is some enmity for me on this board, I am not sure I will receive an answer. But here is the question anyway.
I know that I can configure my 8300HD to show 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i.
But for SD pictures on an HD screen, 480p seems best.
Therefore; What is the native resolution of the MLB Baseball package on Cox Cable? Is it 480i (which I can auto convert to 480p) or is it 1080i (which for an SD picture I DO NOT prefer? (In either case I know it's NOT widescreen HD)

(In case anyone from KLASTV is reading this forum) So it looks like CBS is in last place in offering DD5.1 here in Vegas. CBS is now doing 5.1 national broadcasts, including CSI and other top rated shows, except our local affiliate doesn't decode and pass the signal. Locally, ABC, FOX, and NBC all have Dolby Digital on most of their primetime lineups now. Come on CBS, you were way ahead of the game for a while, now catch up! ;)
Or, just maybe, are you guys waiting until you build your local HD broadcast studio or something???

vegggas

word, the only HD available on Cox is in the 700's. 480P is available on the music channels, but everything else is 480i.

v

Originally posted by vegggas

Or, just maybe, are you guys waiting until you build your local HD broadcast studio or something???

word, the only HD available on Cox is in the 700's. 480P is available on the music channels, but everything else is 480i.

v

First, let me thank you for the information regarding Cox/MLB native resolutions.

Secondly, ...Does KLAS-TV really have plans to build a local HD studio? If so, I find that to be very good news. And am now motivated to ask if NBC, ABC and Fox have similar plans and intentions? That might eliminate the frequent switching between Stretch-O-Vision and real 720p (which I upconvert to 1080i) on ABC.

Looking back on this thread, KVBC went through a major studio overhaul prior to going HD.

Originally posted by gworkman
Looking back on this thread, KVBC went through a major studio overhaul prior to going HD.

Are you saying that KVBC has the ability to present LOCAL programming in widescreen HD? If so, I haven't seen any yet. As far as I know the entire widescreen HD schedule which appears on KVBC is provided by the NBC network, and NONE of it actually arises in Las Vegas.

No, KVBC does not do local programming in HD, but they DID do a major overhaul to their studios in preparations to deliver HD content. There is at least one member from KVBC who lurks on this thread, and they have given us good information in the past.
I just heard another rumor that KLAS might be upgrading their studios soon. If the upgrades are just for better switches, and audio equipment, then that's great, and we might get Dolby Digital audio. There has been a persistant rumor I keep hearing, that the local station, and affiliate Las Vegas One may upgrade the local studio soon. These are just unfounded rumors, but they keep popping up.

vegggas

Has anyone gotten the DVI output to work on the 8000HD since the latest software upgrade? My understanding was that this upgrade was going to enable it. Both me and a friend tried it and we get a message that our display does not support HDCP even though they both do.

Originally posted by vegggas
...
WB, Universal, and other channels are in the works for Cox corporate, but I don't foresee any movement until after the new year starts.
There appears to be some big stuff developing over the next 6 months or so, but I'm not privy to any of the details yet. When I hear it, I'll spill it...

vegggas

I was reading on the HDTV Programming forum that the Masters Golf Tournament will be broadcast in 1080i HD for all still camera shots. There is confusion on the first two days (Thurs/fri) HD broadcast as it is usually on USA network which we dont get HD here in LV, but there was speculation that Universal HD would be broadcasting the Thurs/Fri action in HD.

I assume there is 0% chance for us to get the Universal HD channel by April 7?? And , I also assume the local CBS affiliate cant segregate their HD programming from their SD programming to show the first two days on Channel 730 while not interrupting their normal daytime SD lineup on chanel 8??

The USA coverage of the masters was carried on INHD last year, and on CBSHD during the weekend. I can't remember if locally the CBS station carried the HD feed during the weekdays or not, but I thought they did.
It looks like there should be full coverage from CBS on all four days though...

vegggas

From : http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/news/030705golf

"CBS Sports will broadcast the 2005 Masters on the CBS Television HD Network on Thursday, April 7 and Friday, April 8 (4:00-7:00 PM, ET, each day) and Saturday, April 9 (3:30-7:00 PM, ET) and Sunday, April 10 (2:30-7:00 PM, ET) live from Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Ga. The third and final rounds of the Masters will be broadcast simultaneously in standard definition by CBS Sports on the analog CBS Television Network"


When they talk about the "CBS Television HD Network" , are they talking about the CBS HD feed carried on Cox channel 730? I noticed during the NCAA games that the local channel 8 game at times was different than the game carried on 730 so mabey there can be the Masters on 730 without KLAS having to disrupt their normal daytime schedule?

A question:

The following has happened (infrequently--but it HAS happened). A program being broadcast in widescreen, 1080i, HD breaks for a commercial. The commercial is in a 4:3 aspect ratio. When the program returns it sometimes does NOT resume in widescreen, This happens most often on NBC, (the latest being during "Trial by Jury" on Fri night), but on occasion, it happens on CBS as well.

Who's at fault for this?? The broadcasters or Cox Cable?

Originally posted by Word Maestro
A question:

The following has happened (infrequently--but it HAS happened). A program being broadcast in widescreen, 1080i, HD breaks for a commercial. The commercial is in a 4:3 aspect ratio. When the program returns it sometimes does NOT resume in widescreen, This happens most often on NBC, (the latest being during "Trial by Jury" on Fri night), but on occasion, it happens on CBS as well.

Who's at fault for this?? The broadcasters or Cox Cable?
This is covered frequently in the programming forum - The person flipping the switch at the station forgets to do so (yes, it's a manual process). Cox and other MSO's only RETRANSMIT the stations signals, they don't adjust or modify them.

vegggas

Any late word on the coverage of the Padres in HD this season?

BTW...love the 8300HD. Not a problem since the initial boot up sequence. PQ is excellent using the HDMI/DVI connection.

Jack

Farewell Polly Gonzalez
RIP 1961 - 2005
Best wishes and condolences to the family, friends and the extended family of KLAS.

http://www.klastv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3135329&nav=168XY052

I just sent an email to the Padre contact that I corresponded with earlier. I will let you know when he responds. So far, I have only been able to leave messages with Marketing at Cox (yes, WM, that is NO surprise!).




Originally posted by NevadaJack
Any late word on the coverage of the Padres in HD this season?

BTW...love the 8300HD. Not a problem since the initial boot up sequence. PQ is excellent using the HDMI/DVI connection.

Jack

Originally posted by Tallen234
I just sent an email to the Padre contact that I corresponded with earlier. I will let you know when he responds. So far, I have only been able to leave messages with Marketing at Cox (yes, WM, that is NO surprise!).

Thanks..hope you get some good news..:-)

I will be VERY surprised if Cox has decided to carry the Padre games in HD.

This town ia apparently devoid of an interest in baseball. That's why (for the OTA antenna user, no cable, no satellite) there is a grand total of ONE major league game on per week. And THAT doesn't start until late may or June.

No other city that I know of will stand for that. And that includes a range from the "boonies" to the largest of american cities. There's more interest in Arena Football, NASCAR, and anything with a UNLV rubric attached to it than there is in major league baseball. To think that any major league baseball team will EVER call Las Vegas its "home" is totally laughable.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
There's more interest in Arena Football, NASCAR, and anything with a UNLV rubric attached to it than there is in major league baseball.

Which is why the 2 exhibition games being played this weekend sold out in an hour.....

Originally posted by gworkman
Which is why the 2 exhibition games being played this weekend sold out in an hour.....

Okay then...lets assume you're right and I'm wrong. And that there IS an overwhelming, burning, fanatical interest in major league baseball in this town.

Why then is this NOT recognized by Cox Cable?
Why then don't they realize that pails full of money are to be made by providing the city with lots of major league baseball on TV? (not associated with the MLB Extra Innings package), such as carrying Fox Sports Arizona, Fox Sports Bay Area, and the San Diego HD station

"Two exhibition games", do NOT a season make.

P.S. Sorry if this "show is old", but it's the only show that I like. So if YOU don't like it, don't read it.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
Okay then...lets assume you're right and I'm wrong. And that there IS an overwhelming, burning, fanatical interest in major league baseball in this town.

Why then is this NOT recognized by Cox Cable?
Why then don't they realize that pails full of money are to be made by providing the city with lots of major league baseball on TV? (not associated with the MLB Exrra Innings package), such as carrying Fox Sports Arizona, Fox Sports Bay Area, and the San Diego HD station

"Two exhibition games", do NOT a season make.

Cox does not control the games seen here...MLB controls the games seen here. Even with MLB Extra Inning service, you will not see games condidered by MLB to be home games in LV. That includes the Padres.

The reason we received all the Padres games last year in HD was because Cox owns the station (Channel 4) in San Diego. They could do the same thing this year but apparently (as Vegggas has explained) there are bandwitdth limitations.

You seem to think that everything is just a simple black and white situation which Cox can solve by just saying yes or saying no. Life is really not that simple...

Originally posted by NevadaJack
Cox does not control the games seen here...MLB controls the games seen here. Even with MLB Extra Inning service, you will not see games condidered by MLB to be home games in LV. That includes the Padres.

The reason we received all the Padres games last year in HD was because Cox owns the station (Channel 4) in San Diego. They could do the same thing this year but apparently (as Vegggas has explained) there are bandwitdth limitations.

You seem to think that everything is just a simple black and white situation which Cox can solve by just saying yes or saying no. Life is really not that simple...

Sorry, but you are WRONG.

The Fox Regional Sports Networks qre an isolated service, seperate and distinct from MLB "Extra Innings". If a game such as in Arizona or the Bay Area, which MLB considers home territory for Las Vegas is blacked out on the MLB "extra Innings" feed, if you have access to the Fox Regional Sports Networks in Arizona and the Bay Area, AND THAT GAME is carried on those Fox Regional Sports Networks, you will NOT be blacked out on the FRSN for those games. The Fox Regional Sports Networks are available on Direct TV, and they accomplish just what I said. I know that to be true, because I purchased them as a part of my Direct Tv package. If Cox is reluctant for any reason to purchase the Fox Regional Sports Networks and make them available to their customers, it IS solely a decision by Cox and NOT that of MLB. All of those Regional Sports Networks are in 480i SD, so the excuse of a "lack of bandwidth" cannot be used.

And please tell me why the bandwidth for San Diego HD was available last year, but not this year? I ask this because I am not aware of Cox adding any additional HD service that they did not offer last year.

Talk about "singing an old song", you are apparently just another excuse maker for Cox Cable. It is THEIR responsibilty to FIND A WAY to provide their customers with the services they want. I didn't say it was gonna be easy or inecpensive. But the service should be provided. Especially if the customer is willing to pay for it.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
Sorry, but you are WRONG.

The Fox Regional Sports Networks qre an isolated service, seperate and distinct from MLB "Extra Innings". If a game such as in Arizona or the Bay Area, which MLB considers home territory for Las Vegas is blacked out on the MLB "extra Innings" feed, if you have access to the Fox Regional Sports Networks in Arizona and the Bay Area, AND THAT GAME is carried on those Fox Regional Sports Networks, you will NOT be blacked out on the FRSN for those games. The Fox Regional Sports Networks are available on Direct TV, and they accomplish just what I said. I know that to be true, because I purchased them as a part of my Direct Tv package. If Cox is reluctant for any reason to purchase the Fox Regional Sports Networks and make them available to their customers, it IS solely a decision by Cox and NOT that of MLB. All of those Regional Sports Networks are in 480i SD, so the excuse of a "lack of bandwidth" cannot be used.

And please tell me why the bandwidth for San Diego HD was available last year, but not this year? I ask this because I am not aware of Cox adding any additional HD service that they did not offer last year.

Talk about "singing an old song", you are apparently just another excuse maker for Cox Cable. It is THEIR responsibilty to FIND A WAY to provide their customers with the services they want. I didn't say it was gonna be easy or inecpensive. But the service should be provided. Especially if the customer is willing to pay for it.

I bow to your superior knowledge....now why don't you just watch all those Fox channels on your dish and stop complaining about Cox and then we won't have to listen to your constant diatribes. If you don't like Cox then stop paying them. I don't know why Cox won't broadcast the Padres and I don't know why they don't have the Fox channels. You know what I don't care. If we get the Padres I will be pleased...if not so be it.

Originally posted by vegggas
I have not heard anything regarding the HD-VOD services. The current VOD system is SD only, and I believe that those servers are located in the various OTN's and primary nodes around the valley. I would assume that to make them into HD vod servers, the equipment would have to be replaced, but I'm unsure of exactly what is needed. If I get a chance to go have lunch with some of the Cox Headend Guys, I'll ask what it takes to make it happen.

vegggas


I did a google search for "hd on demand" and found that Comcast, Time-Warner, and Cablevision all have this service currently. I figure Cox has to be ready to launch this also?

Originally posted by NevadaJack
If you don't like Cox then stop paying them. I don't know why Cox won't broadcast the Padres and I don't know why they don't have the Fox channels. [/B]

Believe me, I would jettison Cox in less than the time required for one heartbeat, IF Direct Tv carried the local networks in HD. But they don't. So I'm stuck using both services. However, at the conclusion of the BB season, I will suspend service provided by Direct TV. (there will be NO charges during the time in which service is suspended). And of course when Spring Training starts once again in 2006, I will re-activate the service. You are willing to accept the status-quo. I am not. My diatribes may be futile but I believe that if more posters had MY attitude, we would be getting what we want.

Yea, I'm surprised we don't have HD-VOD too, but I guess there isn't a lot of demand for it. I personally don't use the SD-VOD as it is now, and none of my friends do either (and we're all pretty tech savvy). Of course I do have a Tivo too...

and...

Meta: Please don't quote the post right above you. I have certain people on my "Ignore List" and it doesn't seem to do any good since that person is always be quoted (mostly unnecessarily)...

Originally posted by doormat


Meta: Please don't quote the post right above you. I have certain people on my "Ignore List" and it doesn't seem to do any good since that person is always be quoted (mostly unnecessarily)...


I'm hurt right to the "quicK". Imagine being on the "ignore list" of a "doormat". I don't know how I'll ever recover.

Well....according to the program guide info for next Thurs, Friday...The Masters will only be shown on channel 34 USA for those days which means no HD simulcast on 730 CBS or on INHD. :mad:

Originally posted by gvc
Well....according to the program guide info for next Thurs, Friday...The Masters will only be shown on channel 34 USA for those days which means no HD simulcast on 730 CBS or on INHD. :mad:

The first two rounds of the Masters will be shown in HD on Universal HD, which Cox doesn't carry. At least not in their Southwest business units (it is available on Cox systems in the east and midwest). The only way to see it in HD locally is if you have Directv.

I have received an answer from an email question about the Masters Tournament coverage I sent to the Program Director @ KLAS, Kathy Kramer....

"Yes, KLAS will broadcast The Masters in HD on our digital channel on Thursday and Friday. "

Kathy Kramer
Research/Program Director
KLAS TV 8
(702) 792-8839
(702) 765-8204 Fax
kkramer@klastv.com

Originally posted by gvc
I have received an answer from an email question about the Masters Tournament coverage I sent to the Program Director @ KLAS, Kathy Kramer....

"Yes, KLAS will broadcast The Masters in HD on our digital channel on Thursday and Friday. "

Kathy Kramer
Research/Program Director
KLAS TV 8
(702) 792-8839
(702) 765-8204 Fax
kkramer@klastv.com

Great news...thank you for posting...!

Jack

Originally posted by NevadaJack
Great news...thank you for posting...!

Jack

It's really no news at all.

It may be on a digital channel, and it may be in HD. But will it be "widescreen"? I'm betting NOT!!

I hope I'm wrong

Originally posted by Word Maestro
It's really no news at all.

It may be on a digital channel, and it may be in HD. But will it be "widescreen"? I'm betting NOT!!

I hope I'm wrong

Oh you are so positive in your thoughts and writing.

Most if not all CBS coverage is (and was last year)in HD. In fact for several years. The Masters will be HD and Augusta will knock your socks off with it's beauty. Since CBS does not have a 100 series digital channel, I would suspect the KLAS person was talking about Channel 730. I'll be watching 730 at 1:00 PM and suspect it will be the Masters in HD. If wrong I will watch it on USA.

I checked the future listing for any evidence of a Padre Channel....to no avail. My contact at the Padres did not respond to my email, so I think we are scr*wed.

Originally posted by NevadaJack


Most if not all CBS coverage is (and was last year)in HD. In fact for several years. The Masters will be HD and Augusta will knock your socks off with it's beauty. Since CBS does not have a 100 series digital channel, I would suspect the KLAS person was talking about Channel 730. I'll be watching 730 at 1:00 PM and suspect it will be the Masters in HD. If wrong I will watch it on USA.


KLAS digital channel is 8-1 which is unencrypted through Cox on a QAM capable tuner or with an OTA hd antenna. I am assuming that automatically puts it on Cox 730. But I have emailed Cox to verify since it is not showing up on the Program Guide info.

Cox has no control over the IPG guide data. It's a western regional data guide. We all knew last week, CBS was going to carry the Masters on their HD channel. If ever in doubt, check the CBS website, where it's been posted for some time now. We've never had a problem for the last several years...

vegggas

yes, we knew that CBS was broadcasting the Masters in HD, and the weekend days were never in doubt, but the first two days broadcast has been a question mark as far as getting the broadcast locally since cox does not carry Universal HD. Cox did answer my email and said they would only be broadcasting the highlight shows the first two days and not the actual tourny. KLAS says they will be showing the actual tourny the first two days on their digital channel. So, I guess we will find out for sure soon enough.

Looks like its official. No Padres in high def.

I was told by the Cox operator that the person to speak to is Mindy Anderson.
I left her a couple of messages with no return call.

Originally posted by Tallen234
Looks like its official. No Padres in high def.

I was told by the Cox operator that the person to speak to is Mindy Anderson.
I left her a couple of messages with no return call.

Yeah...looks like no Padres this season. Maybe like last year there will be no annoucement and someday they will show up on Channel 708?

Yankee/Redsox game was in HD on 705 today. Great game and beautiful picture.

There WILL be Padres Baseball here in Vegas, it just might not be in HD.
Check for their first home game this Thursday, probably on Cox channel 96.

vegggas

That's too bad if the Padres games are going to be on Ch 96. After seeing Ch 96 on a few different televisions in LV, I have yet to see anybody that can get a good clean picture on this channel.

Horrible picture on Ch 96

Wow! That is good news. After facing the possibility of no Padre games this year, I actually don't mind that it won't be in HD.




But it would be very nice if it were in HD. ;)





Originally posted by vegggas
There WILL be Padres Baseball here in Vegas, it just might not be in HD.
Check for their first home game this Thursday, probably on Cox channel 96.

vegggas

Originally posted by NevadaJack
Yeah...looks like no Padres this season. Maybe like last year there will be no annoucement and someday they will show up on Channel 708?




I hate to say, "I told you so". But I DID tell you so.

Personally, I don't give a tinkers damn about the Padres. But If I were you, and did care about them, I would be after Cox Cable every day, ALL day, via e-mails, telegrams and telephone calls, until they either offered the broadcasts or gave a damned good reason why they don't. Lack of bandwidth is NOT a valid reason. They had the necessary bandwidth last year. Did it suddenly disappear this year?

96 analog? Or 96 digital.

Nevermind, got off my lazy rear end and checked my tv. 96 doesnt look too bad, but to go from HD to this...

Oh well, I'm about to go without cable tv for a month and a half because Cox wont hook up my street at my new house until there is sufficient demand (we have about 25 homes on my st, I'm the first to move in).

Originally posted by gvc
I have received an answer from an email question about the Masters Tournament coverage I sent to the Program Director @ KLAS, Kathy Kramer....

"Yes, KLAS will broadcast The Masters in HD on our digital channel on Thursday and Friday. "

Kathy Kramer
Research/Program Director
KLAS TV 8
(702) 792-8839
(702) 765-8204 Fax
kkramer@klastv.com

Apparently the Program Director at KLAS, Ms Kathy Kramer;

1. Doesn't know what the heck she's talking about
2. For some reason has deliberately decided to misinform its viewers
3. Spoke, without knowing the actual; plans of CBS

If none of those are true, just what the hell IS true?

I just sent Ms. Kramer an e-mail asking her to explain her error. I might have to wait until the Messiah reappears to get an answer.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
Apparently the Program Director at KLAS, Ms Kathy Kramer;

1. Doesn't know what the heck she's talking about
2. For some reason has deliberately decided to misinform its viewers
3. Spoke, without knowing the actual; plans of CBS

If none of those are true, just what the hell IS true?

I just sent Ms. Kramer an e-mail asking her to explain her error. I might have to wait until the Messiah reappears to get an answer.

What planet are you on? The Masters is on channel 730 in HD and came on at 1:00PM.

Looks excellent on 730 (CBSHD) right now.....I guess that answers all questions.

Mark down this date. Today, April 7, 2005, I received a CALL BACK from a person in marketing for Cox. Unfortunately, I was on an important conference call and couldn't click over, but she did leave a message to inform me that the Padres would be on channel 96 and not in high definition. So, I guess the glass is half full. But I almost drove my car into a light pool when I listened to my messages. Someone from Cox called me back!!!

Originally posted by Tallen234
Mark down this date. Today, April 7, 2005, I received a CALL BACK from a person in marketing for Cox. Unfortunately, I was on an important conference call and couldn't click over, but she did leave a message to inform me that the Padres would be on channel 96 and not in high definition. So, I guess the glass is half full. But I almost drove my car into a light pool when I listened to my messages. Someone from Cox called me back!!!

Thanks Tallen...it's good to see someone looking at a glass half full for a change (if you catch my drift.) At least we can track the Padres and channel 96 doesn't look to bad when it has a good feed.

I have received an answer from an email question about the Masters Tournament coverage I sent to the Program Director @ KLAS, Kathy Kramer....

"Yes, KLAS will broadcast The Masters in HD on our digital channel on Thursday and Friday. "

Kathy Kramer
Research/Program Director
KLAS TV 8
(702) 792-8839
(702) 765-8204 Fax
kkramer@klastv.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the Program Director at KLAS, Ms Kathy Kramer;

1. Doesn't know what the heck she's talking about
2. For some reason has deliberately decided to misinform its viewers
3. Spoke, without knowing the actual; plans of CBS

If none of those are true, just what the hell IS true?

I just sent Ms. Kramer an e-mail asking her to explain her error. I might have to wait until the Messiah reappears to get an answer.

Yeah...looks like no Padres this season. Maybe like last year there will be no annoucement and someday they will show up on Channel 708?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to say, "I told you so". But I DID tell you so.

Personally, I don't give a tinkers damn about the Padres. But If I were you, and did care about them, I would be after Cox Cable every day, ALL day, via e-mails, telegrams and telephone calls, until they either offered the broadcasts or gave a damned good reason why they don't. Lack of bandwidth is NOT a valid reason. They had the necessary bandwidth last year. Did it suddenly disappear this year?

I think someone is "a day late and a dollar short" in their steadfast readiness to respond and complain. Each of these posts were AFTER they had already been announced and had been posted in this thread. As always, people on this thread already posted and told everyone these two events were going to happen. We knew there was no room for HD Padres games, but the SD coverage is better than nothing for fans.
I guess everyone else can enjoy the CBS HD coverage of the Masters that looked stunning and the SD coverage of the Padres on the Cox Customer channel 96.

vegggas

p.s Our apologies to Kathy Kramer. Thank you for your continued support of HD and willingness to provide information and service to a finicky public like us Las Vegans.
v

Word Maestro owes an apologize not only to this forum but also to Ms Kramer.

Word....please , at least, send another email to Ms Kramer apologizing for your "rush to judgement". If your original email to her was as abrasive as some of your posts here , then you definitely need to do this.

Just an FYI, the Padres game currently showing on channel 96 is from the original HD signal being downconverted for analog broadcast to all basic Cox subscribers.
At least it's a widescreen aspect ratio. Comparing this game to the current ESPNHD game makes ESPN look really bad. The ESPN game is also on INHD, and that feed is AWESOME!

Ooops! Getting some interference during the opening ceremonies. I wonder if it's wind related? Have to switch over to the other game for a while.
Edit - Problems seemed to be cleared up now. Just in time for the National Anthem.

vegggas

Channel 96 is unwatchable (all the time).........way too much interference.....they should put Padres back on ch 48

Originally posted by tazlv
Channel 96 is unwatchable (all the time).........way too much interference.....they should put Padres back on ch 48

Channel 96 reception in Summerlin area is fine. No interference or noise...nice image with the Padres feed from SD.

Originally posted by tazlv
Channel 96 is unwatchable (all the time).........way too much interference.....they should put Padres back on ch 48
Looks good and clean at my house. It's right at 99Mhz, so how do your lower channels 2-6 ( except 3, & 5) look in comparison? If they all look poor, then I would check the signal levels. More likely is that you have poor shielding at the connector, or possibly a nail or cut in the cable that is allowing RF signals to interfere with the channel.

vegggas

Channel 96 is horrible for me. Wazy lines and interference. I which Cox would put the games on another channel. I'm in the Lakes area.

Originally posted by bruin95
Channel 96 is horrible for me. Wazy lines and interference. I which Cox would put the games on another channel. I'm in the Lakes area.

Bruin95...I am also in the Lakes area. Channel 96 is about average SD quality for me. Not the best SD station, but still watchable. None of the wavy interference that you speak of on any of our household televisions

I was pleasantly surprised. It definately wasn't HD, but it was decent and it was the Padres!!! Unfortunately, I had to go to bed before the end of the game. At least they ended up winning.

Thanks Cox for responding to this need!

I didn't realise that there is a free preview this week for the MLB Extra Innings.
Channels 671 - 680.
http://www.cox.com/lasvegas/indemand/mlb.asp

Wow..what a Masters that was. The HD was stunning and the tourny was just as stunning. Congrats to Tiger for his fourth green jacket, but I feel for Dimarco. He can only blame himself, though. Tiger gave him a great opportunity. After that miraculous chip in on the 16th I would have never ever thought he would bogey the last two holes.

Read in this morning's paper..sports section...that Cox has reached an agreement with the NFL Network to broadcast their programming beginning with this year's preseason games.

From the Las Vegas Sun, re: NFL Network

NFL NETWORK: Cox Communications Inc., the third- largest U.S. cable-television operator, reached a multiyear agreement to carry the National Football League's cable channel.
Cox, with more than 6 million customers in 22 states, will begin running the NFL Network on its digital cable systems in time for the league's preseason games beginning in August. Terms of the agreement weren't disclosed by the NFL or Atlanta-based Cox.

No other information at this time, especially at the local level.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
From the Las Vegas Sun, re: NFL Network


No other information at this time, especially at the local level.

vegggas

I wonder how this will effect the contract with ESPN and satellite companies? Does anybody know what the NFL Network has in mind as far as games coverage goes?

Originally posted by NevadaJack
I wonder how this will effect the contract with ESPN and satellite companies? Does anybody know what the NFL Network has in mind as far as games coverage goes?

As far as games go, they show all the preseason games, but NO regular season games. The preseason games, except for a handful, are all shown on tape delay. So the game you may want to watch could be on at 3am. As far as having any effect on ESPN or satellite companies, there will be none. The NFL Network is already on several cable systems and has been since it's inception. Directv does not have exclusive rights to the network like they do the NFL Sunday Ticket package.

It looks as though UniversalHD and the NFL Network were added to the COX corporate licensing agreements. UniversalHD has launched in at least one other market already, but will not be available here for a while. I'm hearing that the NFL Network is not scheduled to be available locally until the first of August, and at that time there could be more additions, as long as there are some subtractions in the lineup to free up space. I also heard rumors of HDNet coming to terms soon too, but until it's officially announced, I won't put any faith in it (again).
VOIP IS supposed to be coming in that same time frame in certain areas and be offered to all customers before the end of the year. The rollout for VOIP should be faster than the previous long VOD rollout, especially since it's in many other COX markets already. I will be more than HAPPY to drop Sprint and combine services.
Looks like a slow summer for visible growth, but things are gearing up for a better fall. Who knows, maybe by that time, there will be more channels added?

vegggas

Thanks for the update, Vegggas. I'm with you on dropping Sprint for VOIP...

Not to sound ignorant, but what exactly is VOIP?

voice-over IP. it's a phone service ..not sure how it works though...

Originally posted by bruin95
Not to sound ignorant, but what exactly is VOIP?

Just noticed the following two pages on the Cox Las Vegas site

http://cox.com/lasvegas/equipment/sa8300dvr_8300hddvr.asp
http://cox.com/lasvegas/equipment/sa8300dvr_8300hddvr/4003869.pdf

Has the 8300MR started being offered in Las Vegas?

Sorry if this has already been mentioned ... searched the thread and couldn't find anything.

WOW. I don't think it has been offered to the public, but it is now on their local web page. I know they are offering the regular 8300 right now.

THat would be very nice if they would release it.

Oh ... and the reason I started looking in to this ...

Last night I noticed a new channel popped up on Cox Fairfax (Northern Virginia).

Ch. 751 - MRDVR

Our regular 'DVR Channel' is 750.

So ... looks like it's coming ...

Also the page title mentions digital telephone also!
DTV is gone, and Sprint maybe off my bill list too.
Way to go Cox!

Does anyone know the quality of the digital telephone service?

Called Cox today and they knew nothing of the phone service or the 8300mr.

dt_dc is not a local Las Vegas resident. He is in Northern Virginia. They may be testing the 8300MR SD unit there, but NOT in Las Vegas.
The information on the Las Vegas website was probably put there by corporate by mistake, when scrolling down to the " V " section of places in their list (Virginia / Vegas) etc.
I know of no changes or upcoming new products, other than what I have already mentioned in my earlier post (new channels and VOIP). Those were posted based on very, very good inside information, but not 100% solid until announced by Cox. I test many new products that come through Cox, so I usually have a several weeks or months notice before something is announced.

btw, Somebody asked how the VOIP quality is. Refer to the San Diego and Phoenix area threads, where they have had this product for well over a year now. They are on the exact same type of system as Vegas, and under the same regional control.

vegggas

Is anyone getting a weird stuttering on the audio on channel on all of the HD Channels and it is also on the digital channels (but not as bad). It is like little mini breaks every second or so. It is only on the digital chanels, the regular channels are ok.

Well I did a hard boot and it is now ok. It was pretty annoying.....



Originally posted by Tallen234
Is anyone getting a weird stuttering on the audio on channel on all of the HD Channels and it is also on the digital channels (but not as bad). It is like little mini breaks every second or so. It is only on the digital chanels, the regular channels are ok.

So, Cox calls me up the other day offering free Starz for a month and then $5 a month for the next 2....yadda yadda. I wanted it just for StarzHD.

Well, I thought I saw a couple a artifacts in the picture but ignored it and flipped to another channel. Well, during LOTR, I saw it again. There are 6 bars across the screen that basically just distort the image a few pixels vertically. Anyone else seen this? I am going to call it in tomorrow, but I wanted to check and see if I was crazy or not.

No such Art e Facts here from starzHD. Did you try a reboot?

Originally posted by trevor_2k
So, Cox calls me up the other day offering free Starz for a month and then $5 a month for the next 2....yadda yadda. I wanted it just for StarzHD.

Well, I thought I saw a couple a artifacts in the picture but ignored it and flipped to another channel. Well, during LOTR, I saw it again. There are 6 bars across the screen that basically just distort the image a few pixels vertically. Anyone else seen this? I am going to call it in tomorrow, but I wanted to check and see if I was crazy or not.

I was also watching LOTR last night, and I noticed the distortion as well. There was vertical banding of some kind. The effect was pretty wierd.

I guess your TV set is tired of showing LOTR. You've probably watched it 7,609 times already, anyway.

You should have been watching ESPN-HD. A great (beautifully televised) game between the Athletics and the Angels.

Now that's what HD is for. If LOTR suits your fancy, buy the DVD. I gurantee you, you won't see any distorting artifacts.

Ok...so at least I'm not crazy. They had a movie on that was in 2.35:1 format (ie, black bars top and bottom) and it was very easy to see then. Like 6 vertical bands that distort the picture.

Edit: Just saw WM's post. I did watch the Angel's game since they are my team, it was after that I was flipping around and saw LOTR. It doesn't matter which movie it was, the point of the post was that the channel has distortion. So, when a movie that I really want to see comes on, it will be fixed.

And why are you taking unnecessary cheap shots?

Originally posted by Word Maestro
I guess your TV set is tired of showing LOTR. You've probably watched it 7,609 times already, anyway.

You should have been watching ESPN-HD. A great (beautifully televised) game between the Athletics and the Angels.

Now that's what HD is for. If LOTR suits your fancy, buy the DVD. I gurantee you, you won't see any distorting artifacts.

I actually do own the DVD set (and I've only seen each movie less than 10 times ;)). But right now, my DVD playback quality is not even close to watching movies in HD (which, God and wife willing, will change soon).

I'm not a big baseball fan myself, although I agree that baseball looks terrific in HD. Basketball looks pretty good (though not as impressive), as does golf. I'm enjoying the variety of programming offered right now, and look forward to more in (hopefully) the near future. I recently got the HD DVR, and rarely watch anything in standard definition anymore.

Originally posted by trevor_2k


And why are you taking unnecessary cheap shots?

If I remember correctly, WM is a LOTR hater...

Yes, WM's despisal of LOTR was well documented earlier in this thread. His online demeanor is akin to those who are (to borrow a snippet of a lyric from a 90's song) "only happy when it rains". When you have something constructive to add to this thread, WM, please do so. The above doesn't qualify. I would rather hear out others on the subject of HD in LV than taunts and commentary more suited for a message board for teens that can't interact with strangers. Thank you.

"Ban" isn't just a deodorant anymore...

Originally posted by Word Maestro
I guess your TV set is tired of showing LOTR. You've probably watched it 7,609 times already, anyway.

You should have been watching ESPN-HD. A great (beautifully televised) game between the Athletics and the Angels.

Now that's what HD is for. If LOTR suits your fancy, buy the DVD. I gurantee you, you won't see any distorting artifacts. To each their own.

Jeez.....I participate as a member of several different fora. Largely those involving classical music, opera and ballet. In addition to those on which baseball is the main topic of conversation. My writing style on those boards is exactly the same as it is here. The baseball forums obviously have their quota of teenagers present. But the music boards only have serious music lovers present. Of which I am proud to count myself, as one.

On NONE of those boards does the level of annoyance that you seem to show with my posts, make itself evident. An occasional poke in the eye, or jab in the ribs or even a mild insult is not only tolerated, but welcomed as a needed change of pace.
I like to "stir the pot" and "roil the waters". If you see anything hostile in that, I suggest you exercise, in order to limber up your stiff upper lips.

Originally posted by trevor_2k
So, Cox calls me up the other day offering free Starz for a month and then $5 a month for the next 2....yadda yadda. I wanted it just for StarzHD.

Well, I thought I saw a couple a artifacts in the picture but ignored it and flipped to another channel. Well, during LOTR, I saw it again. There are 6 bars across the screen that basically just distort the image a few pixels vertically. Anyone else seen this? I am going to call it in tomorrow, but I wanted to check and see if I was crazy or not.

Vertical banding on Starz has been reported by many other viewers around the country. Specifically, when Finding Nemo was released, there were 6 0r 7 very evident banding or vertical stripes in the picture that were a few pixels wide. It sort of looked like the movie was in strips and they were overlapping at the edges. Subsequent movies are hit and miss in wether they have banding or not, but it appears to be in the transfer, and the bands appear in the same movies over and over again.

vegggas

Originally posted by Word Maestro
Jeez.....I participate as a member of several different fora. Largely those involving classical music, opera and ballet. In addition to those on which baseball is the main topic of conversation. My writing style on those boards is exactly the same as it is here. The baseball forums obviously have their quota of teenagers present. But the music boards only have serious music lovers present. Of which I am proud to count myself, as one.

On NONE of those boards does the level of annoyance that you seem to show with my posts, make itself evident. An occasional poke in the eye, or jab in the ribs or even a mild insult is not only tolerated, but welcomed as a needed change of pace.
I like to "stir the pot" and "roil the waters". If you see anything hostile in that, I suggest you exercise, in order to limber up your stiff upper lips.

I wasn't really upset by your post. Just taking a little jab back, so to speak. All in fun...

Oh, and maybe your writing style is commonplace on the fora (I had no idea that fora was the plural for forum:( ) mentioned above because everyone there has a stick up their a$$;) .

Has anyone been having problems with the 8300HD DVR missing scheduled recordings???

Mine is driving me nuts and I'm about ready to put a sledgehammer to it. I set the box to record American Idol (ALL shows in ANY time slot) and, for the 2nd week in a row, it did not record tonight's show. Last night, I even checked to make sure it was selected ("red") in the Guide. I record only 3 shows...American Idol, The Bachelor, and The Apprentice, so it's not like I have a huge list of shows which are taping.

Is this a common occurance???

The last DVR we had (non-HD) had no problems. I'm probably going to exchange it this weekend but I want to know if anyone else is having the same problems with their 8300HD.

Originally posted by linative
Has anyone been having problems with the 8300HD DVR missing scheduled recordings???

Mine is driving me nuts and I'm about ready to put a sledgehammer to it. I set the box to record American Idol (ALL shows in ANY time slot) and, for the 2nd week in a row, it did not record tonight's show. Last night, I even checked to make sure it was selected ("red") in the Guide. I record only 3 shows...American Idol, The Bachelor, and The Apprentice, so it's not like I have a huge list of shows which are taping.

Is this a common occurance???

The last DVR we had (non-HD) had no problems. I'm probably going to exchange it this weekend but I want to know if anyone else is having the same problems with their 8300HD.
There is something that is causing a problem. I would do a hard reboot, (pull power cord, hold power button in while reinserting power cord, and hold for 7 seconds). Then let the STB download all the stuff it needs after clearing the memory, which will take about 5 minutes. Do not try to rush the process, but wait a while until it's finished.
I would also suggest canceling your current your recording style and using the "New episodes only" selection instead. The All Episodes option may get you into trouble when they make IPG changes that temporarily conflict, but still reside in memory.

vegggas
shout out to the Gateway dude trolling this forum, but is afraid to sign up :cool:

We're fortunate to have 9 stations broadcasting in digital / HD over the air in Vegas, and almost all have the same location for brodcast towers. ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, WB, PBS and UNI (Univision, Spanish) all have their towers on a mountain on the way to Hoover Dam, SE of The Strip.

I bought my first HDTV last fall, a Sony KP-57W5500, a 57 inch rear projection TV w/ inegrated HD tuner. I was already with Cox Cable, so I upgraded to their HD service. I was not impressed. Only 2 channel stereo, mediocre video quality, and very sluggish channel changing. An no HD service for WB. So I researched on the web, found antennaweb.org, found out what was available over the air, and went for it. I tried an internal HD antenna from Radio Shack, but quickly took it back. I shoudl have known better - my cell phone doesn't even work well inside my house. My house was built in mid 60's (Practically Victorian Era by Vegas standards ;-) ), so I joke it's all the radioactive dust in the attic from the bomb tests ;-).

So, I went for a Winegard 7210, with ghost busting. The TV towers are to my SE. No buildings, but I do have tall pine trees. I mounted the antenna to the chimney of my single story house. From the roof I could see the blinking red lights of the TV towers, so I just pointed the directional antenna toward them. I hooked the cable to my Sony TV and Wow! What an improvement over Cox cable! Much better video quality. I have a digital optical output on my Sony TV, connected to my Sony 5.1 surround sound receiver. It displays a blue light when it receives multi channel digital audio input. It lit up blue for the first time with HDTV! I get terrific surround sound off the air, something Cox Cable couldn't do for $120 per month!

I recently purchased a Fusion HDTV Gold QAM digital tuner & recorder for my computer so I could record in HD, and before the FCC July 1 deadline that digital equipment support the broadcast flags prohibiting recording in HD. I hooked a cable split from my antenna and it worked prefectly. It reports 100% reception quality from my antenna, and records perfectly in original broadcast resolution and multi channel sound.

Note: if you want to ouput HD TV from your computer to your TV to view your HD recordings, the Fusion card does not support HD output. I already had an ATI All In Wonder 9800 Pro graphics card that does provide for HDTV out, so I use that.

Over he Air HDTV brodcast is the best kept secret in Las Vegas. Much better quality than Cox Cable, and very easy to set up due to the brodcast tower location and flat valley geography of Las Vegas. Just be sure to ground the antenna & cable before the summer monsoon season thunder storms @!

- DaveinVegas

Threads merged.

Originally posted by DaveinVegas
We're fortunate to have 9 stations broadcasting in digital / HD over the air in Vegas, and almost all have the same location for brodcast towers. ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, WB, PBS and UNI (Univision, Spanish) all have their towers on a mountain on the way to Hoover Dam, SE of The Strip.

I bought my first HDTV last fall, a Sony KP-57W5500, a 57 inch rear projection TV w/ inegrated HD tuner. I was already with Cox Cable, so I upgraded to their HD service. I was not impressed. Only 2 channel stereo, mediocre video quality, and very sluggish channel changing. An no HD service for WB. So I researched on the web, found antennaweb.org, found out what was available over the air, and went for it. I tried an internal HD antenna from Radio Shack, but quickly took it back. I shoudl have known better - my cell phone doesn't even work well inside my house. My house was built in mid 60's (Practically Victorian Era by Vegas standards ;-) ), so I joke it's all the radioactive dust in the attic from the bomb tests ;-).

So, I went for a Winegard 7210, with ghost busting. The TV towers are to my SE. No buildings, but I do have tall pine trees. I mounted the antenna to the chimney of my single story house. From the roof I could see the
blinking red lights of the TV towers, so I just pointed the directional antenna toward them. I hooked the cable to my Sony TV and Wow! What an improvement over Cox cable! Much better video quality. I have a digital optical output on my Sony TV, connected to my Sony 5.1 surround sound receiver. It displays a blue light when it receives multi channel digital audio input. It lit up blue for the first time with HDTV! I get terrific surround sound off the air, something Cox Cable couldn't do for $120 per month!

I recently purchased a Fusion HDTV Gold QAM digital tuner & recorder for my computer so I could record in HD, and before the FCC July 1 deadline that digital equipment support the broadcast flags prohibiting recording in HD. I hooked a cable split from my antenna and it worked prefectly. It reports 100% reception quality from my antenna, and records perfectly in original broadcast resolution and multi channel sound.

Note: if you want to ouput HD TV from your computer to your TV to view your HD recordings, the Fusion card does not support HD output. I already had an ATI All In Wonder 9800 Pro graphics card that does provide for HDTV out, so I use that.

Over he Air HDTV brodcast is the best kept secret in Las Vegas. Much better quality than Cox Cable, and very easy to set up due to the brodcast tower location and flat valley geography of Las Vegas. Just be sure to ground the antenna & cable before the summer monsoon season thunder storms @!

- DaveinVegas

1. Did you try an 8300HD? Far superior to any other cable box rented by Cox

2. What do you do for ESPN, HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Discovery HD theater, INHD 1 and 2, etc? Seems like a poor tradeoff just to get WB and Univision. Which IMO, have just slightly more than nothing to say and nothing to show us.

3. And lastly of course, jusrt what is yoiur solution for apartment dwellers or those homeowners that do NOT have a clear "line of sight" to the transmitters?

daveinvegas,
You obviously didn't know how to hook up your cable equipment. You were not even watching HD if you could tell a difference between OTA and cable. Some stations provide a direct fiber link to the MSO for direct rebroadcast of their signal over the cable lines, and all others are sent out, just as they are received without modification, as per the local retransmit agreements. There is no difference between OTA and cable HD local channels.
As for the multi-channel sound, I've been enjoying Dolby digital sound from cable even before HD was available many, many years ago. It has been nice, especially now that all local channels are offering Dolby Digital, other than CBS. Premium digital movie channels have always had Dolby Digital when the original broadcast was supplied in DD format.

For reference, here again are ALL the digital stations in the Las Vegas metro area. All HD stations are carried by Cox, except WB, which can't provide a stable signal to Cox, nor will agree to standard retransmit agreements (Sinclair owned). Some low power stations are not viewable in all areas with an antenna.

HD Local - KVBC-DT 3.1 NBC LAS VEGAS NV - Cox Ch 733
HD Local - KTNV-DT 13.1 ABC LAS VEGAS NV - Cox Ch 732
HD Local - KLAS-DT 8.1 CBS LAS VEGAS NV - Cox Ch 730
HD Local - KVVU-DT 5.1 FOX Henderson - Cox Ch 735
HD National, SD local - KLVX-DT 10.1 PBS LAS VEGAS NV - Cox Ch 731

SD Local - KBLR-DT 40.1 TELEMUNDO PARADISE NV -Spanish 480i signal
SD Local - KINC-DT 16.1 UNIVISION LAS VEGAS NV -Spanish 480i signal
SD Local - KFBT-DT 33.1 IND LAS VEGAS NV - 480i signal

HD/SD Intermittent (4 hours HD/wk - low power) KVWB-DT 22.1 WB LAS VEGAS NV - Also carries multiple USDTV (pay service) feeds and has low bandwidth at 12Mbps for their HD feed, when available.

vegggas

Originally posted by CPanther95
Threads merged.

Thanks, CPanter for merging my post. I obviously did not look far enough back in the forums to see there was already a thread for Las Vegas. I'm glad to see there is the exisiting thread for Vegas with so many active members & useful information.

Originally posted by vegggas
daveinvegas,
You obviously didn't know how to hook up your cable equipment.
vegggas

veggas - I think that's a little presumptuous. Yes, I do know how to hook up cable equipment; I've been doing it for some time. But, while I picked up the HD box from the Cox office & hooked it up myself, the setup was checked by Ultimate Electronics when the delivered my Sony HDTV, and then re-checked by my neighbor works for Cox. Cox gave me a Scientific American box; don't recall the model. But it only had component video out (YPbPr) and 2 channel analog audio out. While the Scietifica American box had a DVI and digital optical audio outputs, both Cox via telephone & my neighbor told me they were non-activated options not supported by Cox.
So, the analog audio output was why I never had Dolby Digital surround sound. Yes, I clearly had HDTV video display from Cox; it was much better than analog. But, I feel the video quality is more clear from OTA because:

1- My Sony HDTV has an integrated HDTV / digital tuner. The Cox box would receive the digital HDTV signal via cable, convert it to analog to transmit over the YPbPr component analog cable, where it was received by my Sony and then converted back to digital for display. This also caused the sluggish channel changing. IF Cox had provided a cable box with DVI digital out, which my Sony supports, the quality would probably have been better.

2- My Winegard antenna is one of the best in its class, I have a clear line of sight from my house roof (near Eastern & Flamingo) to the transmitting towers. That combined with the direct digital signal to my TV rather than the digital-analog-digital conversion mess Cox provided me with enables a better video display, an direct digital audio as transmitted by the stations.

Word Maestro: No, I never tried anything but the SA box Cox provided me. For $120 / mo (OK, including $40 for internet), I thought they should have provided quality equipment. I've had an ATI All IN Wonder analog tuner for my PC to record. I just added a Fusion HDTV III Gold Q card for recording HD programing to my computer. So, no use for Cox's PVR.
What do I do for ESPN? Well, football is the only sport I'm really into. I did enjoy the ESPN HD football games last fall on Cox. Now that ESPN will have MNF in 2006 . . . . I'll have to perhaps re-think that when football season rolls around in 2006. Fall 2005, I just miss a few college games & Sunday NIte Football. Maybe I'll visit my neighbors on Sundays . . .
What do I do for HBO, Starz, Cinema Max, etc.? It's called Hollywood Video's $10 per month MVP - unlimited movie rentals, you can take 3 at a time, and then get 3 more as soon as you return them; as many as you can watch for $10 monthly subscription. Only thing is new releases are delayed a few weeks before they move to the MVP program. As for Discovery - PBS HD give me enough of outdoor scenery.

Someone else posted that HD movies are far superior to DVD. Try the Denon 1910. It upconverts the native DVD rez of 480i/480p to 720p or 1080i (whichever your TV supports as native), and has DVI digital video out. Denon makes DVD players costing $600-$800; the 1910 is a steal at $250. I bought mine a few months ago & love it. In my opinion, the digital video and optical digital audio DVD movies on the Denon 1910 are far superior to anything I saw on HBO HD.

All the best.
Dave

Originally posted by DaveinVegas


Word Maestro: No, I never tried anything but the SA box Cox provided me. For $120 / mo (OK, including $40 for internet), I thought they should have provided quality equipment. Dave

If you're as knowledgeable about Cable TV as you claim to be, with the additional benefit of having a neighbor that works for Cox, I find it hard to believe that you didn't know about the availability of the 8300HD. (By the way, it's Scientific Atlanta NOT Scientific American). Why did you settle for less than the latest, feature laden cable box.? Especially since NO ADDITIONAL cost is involved. If you say you "didn't know about it", then you really aren't as knowledgeable about Cable TV as you claim to be.

Secondly, the 8300HD has a working HDMI port which carries both DIGITAL video AND Digital Audio, without the necessity of any conversion from analog to digital.

Thirdly, a $250 DVD player despite its supposed upconversion capability can not compare in either quality or durability with its $600 to $800 brethren. Show me a $1000 "upconverting" DVD player and THEN we might have something interesting. It is ALWAYS true that you get what you pay for. CHEAP is DEAR!! Always!!

Originally posted by Word Maestro
If you're as knowledgeable about Cable TV as you claim to be, with the additional benefit of having a neighbor that works for Cox, I find it hard to believe that you didn't know about the availability of the 8300HD. (By the way, it's Scientific Atlanta NOT Scientific American). Why did you settle for less than the latest, feature laden cable box.? Especially since NO ADDITIONAL cost is involved. If you say you "didn't know about it", then you really aren't as knowledgeable about Cable TV as you claim to be.

Secondly, the 8300HD has a working HDMI port which carries both DIGITAL video AND Digital Audio, without the necessity of any conversion from analog to digital.

Thirdly, a $250 DVD player despite its supposed upconversion capability can not compare in either quality or durability with its $600 to $800 brethren. Show me a $1000 "upconverting" DVD player and THEN we might have something interesting. It is ALWAYS true that you get what you pay for. CHEAP is DEAR!! Always!!

Y'all seem kinda harsh here, or maybe a lot of Cox employees.
I said I knew how to hook up cable equipment; I never claimed to be an expert in cable television technology. Never want to be. I upgraded to Cox HD service in Sept. 2004. I don't know if the 8300HD was available then. I did check thier website PDF's, and it was the 3250HD they gave me. Are you telling me that Cox's level of service is that only customers "knowledgeable enough" to demand their top of the line equipment get their "good stuff" while the rest of their customers get sub-standard equipment?

The bottom line is I'm extremely satisfied with my OTA HD quality, and have no interest in going back to cable for HDTV.

And, if you feel $250 is "cheap" and will wait until a $1000 upconverting DVD player is available before trying it out, then please go right ahead and keep supporting the economy.

Dave I used to have the 3250 in my home.

I used both the DVI out and the digital audio out and they both worked great.... the DVI was even better after I called up and asked them to push the Beta DVI software to my box.

Did you ever try hooking up the digital audio out of the 3250?

Originally posted by DaveinVegas
. Are you telling me that Cox's level of service is that only customers "knowledgeable enough" to demand their top of the line equipment get their "good stuff" while the rest of their customers get sub-standard equipment?

.

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm telling you.

Unless you are extremely lucky you will be the recipient of "old stock" first, and only receive "new stock", if you make your preferences heard loud and long.

The 8300HD was not available in Sept 2004, but the 8000HD certainly was. And the 8000HD is a DVR as well, preferable in every way to the 3250HD. The 8300HD (also a DVR) became available in late Jan or early Feb of this year. As soon as I heard about it (by reading this forum) I hied it down to Cox headquarters on Rancho Road., and demanded they swap my 8000HD for an 8300HD. First they claimed they didn't have any in stock. But persistence paid off. The "customer support person" finally agreed to go to the back of the facility to search for an 8300HD. The search took no longer than 2 minutes, and "miraculously" one materialized. Apparently they had reserved them for VIPs. Bulldung!!!! I pay good money for their service and I don't think any customer is more important than any other.

And from your comment about "supporting the economy" I gather that your switch to an OTA antenna is NOT about picture quality, but really is all about "money".

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Dave I used to have the 3250 in my home.

I used both the DVI out and the digital audio out and they both worked great.... the DVI was even better after I called up and asked them to push the Beta DVI software to my box.

Did you ever try hooking up the digital audio out of the 3250?

Hi, HoStevo - No, I took what Cox gave me, assuming they were giving a customer since 1999 the latest & best equipment they had. The 3250 they provided me came with one large cable, with the component video (YPbPr) and analog R/L audio combined in the one cable. Cox support told me that was all that was supported on my HD tuner. In checking the Cox/LasVegas website yesterday, the PDF specs for the 3250 model indicates three models - 1: with the component video/analog audio; 2: with 'optional' DVI / digital optical along with the component video& analog audio; and 3: with DVI and digital audio, both coax & optical. I apparently received the first.

So, OK. I'm ready to concede that IF I had been 'more knowledgeable' about cable company equipment; IF I'd been more persistent in getting the best out of the equipment they provided me (by demanding beta software); or IF I'd been more demanding and banged my fist on their counter until they gave me their latest, greatest equipment (normally reserved for 'VIP' customers???), then probably my OTA reception would not be better than what I might have been able to receive through Cox cable.

But, my OTA the reception quality is still superior to what I had at the time from Cox, and entirely satisfactory to me.

As someone who has been married & divorced twice, I appreciate your signature, HiHoStevo. But, to paraphrase: "There are two theories for quarreling with Word Maestro -- neither one works!"

No, Maestro, your suggestion that my switch to OTA had more to do with money rather than quality is an illogical and incorrect assumption. I am not some 19 year old music downloading, computer hacking student. I am a 51 year old Ivy League university graduate, former corporate financial controller, now with my own consulting business. As someone with a strong financial background, I appreciate value for the money expended. When I found I could get OTA HDTV with quality equal or superior to what I received via cable without paying for the hundreds of digital channels I never had the time nor inclination to watch on the digital service Cox requires to get HD service, than that is value for money spent to me.
On the other hand, I still have Cox's mid-level (4MB DL speed) Internet service. I looked into Sprint DSL; the lower speed and 1 yr. contract didn't appeal to me. I also looked into T1 and fractional T1 Internet; the lowest price was $300 / mo. I need reliable broadband Internet service for my consulting business, and at $50 / mo, Cox's Internet service represents value for the money spent to me.

For all of you happy & content with Cox's HDTV service, great! Enjoy it. All I started out to do was to point out that OTA HDTV broadcasts in Las Vegas is surprisingly good, and a viable alternative.

Daveinvegas, Maybe I was a bit harsh, but all "Explorer" digital converters supplied by Cox, or for that matter, Scientific Atlanta have had digital audio out since around 1999. All the HD compatible STB's have had digital audio out even in the base unit. I have a link in my sig to the 3250, which I reviewed in January of 2004 after using it for several months of 2003, here in Las Vegas from Cox. The 3100 was the first HD unit, with only component out, but still had digital out, and a good HD picture.
Contrary to popular belief, Cable Co's do not convert the digital HD signals from local channels. They only change the CARRIER from 8VSB to QAM to be compatible with the cable equipment and allow for more bandwidth and data. If your TV has an ATSC/QAM tuner, you can still hook it to the cable line and pick up the local channels using your QAM tuner.

Please feel free to add to this thread. There are a lot of OTA users here, including me (aging Sammy T150), who are always looking for new information. This thread has helped many with OTA problems across the valley, but you happen to be in one of the prime locations for reception. Others in Boulder City, Henderson, and the NorthWest have had no luck with an antennas due to low signal strength, line of sight, and multipath issues.
The problem was that the original post was bashing another alternative HD source and was biased and wrong. It may have been correct in your personal opinion and particular setup, but not corect from the sources you specified. Your post was similar to someone saying that ABC HD is the worst looking HD they have ever seen and nobody should watch it. Although it's not true, observing their upconverted, stretched signal during off times may give you that opinion it doesn't change the fact that their actual HD is on par with any one else.

Let me also compliment you in getting Word Maestro to actually defend Cox for a change. Usually it's the other way around...:D

vegggas

Originally posted by DaveinVegas


No, Maestro, your suggestion that my switch to OTA had more to do with money rather than quality is an illogical and incorrect assumption. I am not some 19 year old music downloading, computer hacking student. I am a 51 year old Ivy League university graduate, former corporate financial controller, now with my own consulting business. As someone with a strong financial background, I appreciate value for the money expended. .


I'm VERY impressed .

I too, am an Ivy League University graduate holding two Masters Degrees. One in Chemistry and one in Education. Thus, I spent my professional life as a teacher. And although I am now 69 years of age, I am also proud to say that I have a very well functioning brain and an insatiable curiosity about the world around me.
And by the way, saying that you were a "corporate financial controller" is (to me) simply a more elegant way to say that you were a "bookkeeper". And I sure hope your consulting business doesn't in any way involve cable television.

Originally posted by vegggas
If your TV has an ATSC/QAM tuner, you can still hook it to the cable line and pick up the local channels using your QAM tuner.

Please feel free to add to this thread. There are a lot of OTA users here, including me (aging Sammy T150), who are always looking for new information. This thread has helped many with OTA problems across the valley, but you happen to be in one of the prime locations for reception. Others in Boulder City, Henderson, and the NorthWest have had no luck with an antennas due to low signal strength, line of sight, and multipath issues.
The problem was that the original post was bashing another alternative HD source and was biased and wrong. It may have been correct in your personal opinion and particular setup, but not corect from the sources you specified.one else.

Let me also compliment you in getting Word Maestro to actually defend Cox for a change. Usually it's the other way around...:D

vegggas

Hi vegggas - Thanks for your encouragement and pointing out what in my first post was considered biased & incorrect. I intended only to point out the successful results of my experimentation with OTA HD broadcasts, not "trash" an alternative source. After all, I am still a customer of Cox, for broadband Internet.

My Fusion HDTV PC tuner card does have QAM capability. To test it, I did scan the Cox cable feed to my cable modem for digital cable signals. It's my understanding the FCC requires cable providers to carry the digital signal of local stations unencrypted. I was able to pick up Cox's digital feed for local stations. As a point of interest, I was also able to pick up the digital signal of some movies. It appeared to me to be the On Demand movies, perhaps selected by people in my neighborhood. I quickly put the cable feed back to my cable modem and the antenna feed back to my Fusion ATSC/QAM tuner. For my particular setup, I prefer the quality of my antenna's OTA signal for digital stations and didn't want there to be any question of my receiving any cable services for which I had not subscribed.

Actually, it appears to me getting W.Maestro to argue about anything is quite easy. It also seems a bit like arguing with the wind - quite pointless and unsatisfying. I already have the former school marm on ignore.

Wow, I was away for a couple of days and look what I missed!

The best thing about this entire exchange is WM actually trumpeting the virtues of Cox!



Dave,

Not everyone on this forum is harsh (Vegggas definitely is not and is one of the more knowledgeable folks here). WM is our own curmudgeon who takes some getting used to (if that is possible ;) ). Good luck with OTA. I, for one, am very happy with my 8000hd pvr (haven't upgraded to 8300). A friend of mine grabs OTA HD and I see no difference in the quality of the picture (his TV is actually better than mine and was just calibrated).

Good Luck

Dave I too went away from Cox to OTA and Direct TV for my HD. I had some real Cox problems that they couldnt solve. But there is alot of good info here from Mr. VEgas. Dave I live over by the Cheyenne Durango area and I seem to lose PBS at night. Whats your area?

Originally posted by speco2003
Dave I too went away from Cox to OTA and Direct TV for my HD. I had some real Cox problems that they couldnt solve. But there is alot of good info here from Mr. VEgas. Dave I live over by the Cheyenne Durango area and I seem to lose PBS at night. Whats your area?

HI speco2003 - Yes, there's a lot of great useful info here, especially from vegggas.

I live near Eastern & Flamingo, apparently a pretty ideal location for receiving OTA. Very few buildings over 1 story, and only about 12 miles from the transmitting towers. I used a Winegard 7210, a mid range directional antenna, mounted to my chimney.

I don't use any amps or pre-amps, and have a splitter on the coax from the antenna, with one lead going to my Sony TV with integrated HD / ATSC / NTSC tuner. The other lead goes to my Fusion3 HDTV PC tuner, primarily for recording / time shifting HD programming. I have the Fusion card tuned to digital OTA only. It gives an on-screen signal strength display. ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS & Fox all come in at 100%. WB is usually around 82%. I haven't noticed any difference in signal strength between day / night.

I have my Sony TV tuned to both analog & digital OTA. PBS analog (channel 10.0) comes in OK, but all digital channels come in better. So I usually watch PBS on 10.2, the digital transmission of the 10.0 analog programming. PBS HD (10.1) comes in terrific.

I would guess you're maybe another 10 miles further away from the transmitting towers. Are you using an outdoor antenna? Perhaps a pre-amp might boost your signal.

Originally posted by vegggas


HD Local - KVBC-DT 3.1 NBC LAS VEGAS NV - Cox Ch 733
HD Local - KTNV-DT 13.1 ABC LAS VEGAS NV - Cox Ch 732
HD Local - KLAS-DT 8.1 CBS LAS VEGAS NV - Cox Ch 730
HD Local - KVVU-DT 5.1 FOX Henderson - Cox Ch 735
HD National, SD local - KLVX-DT 10.1 PBS LAS VEGAS NV - Cox Ch 731

SD Local - KBLR-DT 40.1 TELEMUNDO PARADISE NV -Spanish 480i signal
SD Local - KINC-DT 16.1 UNIVISION LAS VEGAS NV -Spanish 480i signal
SD Local - KFBT-DT 33.1 IND LAS VEGAS NV - 480i signal

HD/SD Intermittent (4 hours HD/wk - low power) KVWB-DT 22.1 WB LAS VEGAS NV - Also carries multiple USDTV (pay service) feeds and has low bandwidth at 12Mbps for their HD feed, when available.

vegggas




My HDTV (mits) recently had to be "rebooted". All digital channels came back except Channel 3's HD channel, NBC. I cannot locate it anywhere.
The other local HD channels are listed by the MITS QAM tuner as:

ABC 102-3
CBS 8-1(renamed from 103)
PBS 11-1 (renamed from 103)
FOX 5-1 (renamed from 112)

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe NBC HD used to be on 3-1. Now its not there. When 3-1 is directly entered on the remote , only SD 3 comes up then the normal digital 3 (Not HD... same as cable 123, which also is picked up by the QAM tuner)


Did Cox move the NBCHD channel? or mabey its just my TV's tuner acting up. If no one else is having this problem then I will do a full channel rescan.

NBCHD is still on the same QAM as ABCHD (102), which is set at 663Mhz.
OTA NBCHD is 2.1
I wonder why your ABC is not being renamed to 13 and you can't pick up the NBC feed? I would do another channel scan and focus on the 102 QAM.

vegggas

Originally posted by gvc
My HDTV (mits) recently had to be "rebooted". All digital channels came back except Channel 3's HD channel, NBC. I cannot locate it anywhere.


gvc - I haven't played around with QAM on Cox much with my FusionHD; I prefer my OTA reception.

But, earlier this week I did a re-scan of channels earlier this week, in the morning. It couldn't find NBC then, either. I tried it later in the evening, when NBC was broadcasting in HD, and it found it fine then.

Try doing a re-scan during Prime Time, when NBC is broadcasting in HD.

Hey Dave yes I have one of the big outdoor ants, kind of like the old school ones. But no amps on it. I have sometimes had problems with NBC during the day as well guys.

Wow. It's awfully quiet in here.

Vegggas, any rumors to report?

Unless FACTS are available for reportiing, silence is preferrable to spreading of rumors.

Very few of the previously reported "rumors" have turned into "facts".

I think you like "gossip".

Although the silence was deafining, we can all rest assured that it will be filled by pedantic jibes by our old curmudgeon.

Been working almost every waking hour for the last several weeks at the latest hotel opening. As such, I've been missing my weekly chats and visits with the cable guys. They usually keep me posted of anything major if it comes up anyway so no worries there.
I've still got feelers and troops out there for the Padres HD feed, but the situation is still looking hopeless. No rumors here, if it will ever happen, I will let you know. Until then don't expect anything other than the analog feed on 96.

Has anyone noticed an increase in macroblocking on CBS the last few months? The measured bit rate remains at top levels as checked by an ATSC analyzer, but it seems there is more macroblocking on scene changes, pans, and other intensive patterns lately. On Cox, they only share their single 38Mbps QAM with PBS, so I can't see a bottleneck there, but during recorded playback, there is a lot more macroblocking. I can't record OTA to do a direct comparison on paused scene changes, but it looks the same as it flashes by.
Can anyone recording both do a still frame comparison? The opening scenes of any CSI are a good example as the camera angles jump back and forth, etc. You can pause and do a frame advance and easily see the blocking between scene changes, where the effect used to be much less noticeable.

vegggas

vegggas - I just got a Fusion3 HDTV card for my PC about 2 weeks ago and have been quite a bit of recording of OTA HDTV programing the past few weeks. I just checked last week's CSI and I don't see any macro blocking or any quality issues.

My Fusion card does have QAM and I did scan my Cox cable connection and picked up the unencrypted local stations in digital. I haven't really used them much. For my location and personal preferences, I still prefer my antenna reception. Out of curiosity, I'll record CSI tonight off of cable and see if I see any difference.

Yes, the Vegas HDTV thread does seem pretty quiet compared to other cities. I guess we're all too busy working . . . or at the casinos. :p

But it does provide the opportunity to improve one's vocabulary. When I think of a 'curmudgeon', I think of someone like Walter Mathau - grizzled, gruff exterior, but a heart of gold on the inside. So, I didn't see how that term fit WM. Egotist seemed more appropriate - "somebody with an exaggerated sense of his or her self-importance". But, in looking it up I find one definition of a curmudgeon is: "a bad-tempered, disagreeable, or stubborn person", so I guess that shoe fits a well. :p

Originally posted by DaveinVegas
But, in looking it up I find one definition of a curmudgeon is: "a bad-tempered, disagreeable, or stubborn person", so I guess that shoe fits a well.

That's ME to a tee. And I LOVE it.

I noticed that a lot of the Las Vegas Digital stations are VHF. Has this posed any reception problems?

Would I be able to pick up the VHF stations with a CM 4228 or would I need a VHF/UHF Combo?

* yellow - uhf KFBT-DT 33.1 IND LAS VEGAS NV 198° 2.6 29
* yellow - uhf KBLR-DT 40.1 TEL PARADISE NV 199° 2.4 40
* yellow - vhf KLVX-DT 10.1 PBS LAS VEGAS NV 198° 2.6 11
* yellow - uhf KVWB-DT 22.1 WB LAS VEGAS NV 198° 2.6 22
* yellow - vhf KVBC-DT 3.1 NBC LAS VEGAS NV 199° 2.5 2
* red - vhf KTNV-DT 13.1 ABC LAS VEGAS NV 194° 7.3 12
* red - vhf KLAS-DT 8.1 CBS LAS VEGAS NV 194° 7.3 7
* red - vhf KVVU-DT 5.1 FOX Henderson NV 188° 2.9 9
* violet - uhf KINC-DT 16.1 UNI LAS VEGAS NV 194° 7.3 16

Thanks,
Derek

Originally posted by sanjoseskater
I noticed that a lot of the Las Vegas Digital stations are VHF. Has this posed any reception problems?

Would I be able to pick up the VHF stations with a CM 4228 or would I need a VHF/UHF Combo?

Thanks,
Derek

I went with a Winegard 7210P, a VHF/UFH combo directional antenna and get terrific reception for all the stations. I think you will want to go with a combo UHF/VHF antenna to get everything. And nearly all TV transmitting towers are on the same mountain in the SE part of town, so a directional antenna should give you a better signal.

Will you be changing your name to VegasSkater? :p

I'm bouncing between the different channels carrying the Helldorado Parade on Cox. Apparently, Cox does not monitor the audio levels very closely. Ch 123 KVBC Digital is easily twice as loud as any other channel. I think there is even a bit of distortion because it is so loud.

I don't know if the problem is with KVBC or COX....but I suspect COX.

Also, they are claiming national coverage on the COX/KVBC coverage. Who is carrying our parade nationally?

Originally posted by Demodave


Also, they are claiming national coverage on the COX/KVBC coverage. Who is carrying our parade nationally?

In their usual boastful manner, they probably mean that NBC affiliates around the country are using snippets of their coverage on their local newscasts. Cox sucks, plain and simple. But they're the only game in town. Otherwise they would offer us ESPN 2, WB and the Padres in HD. And I don't want to hear about a lack of bandwidth. Where there's a will, there's a way.

GOD only knows how much space they would free up, by eliminating at least some, (or all) of those foreign language stations and all the audio only stations (which I'm sure VERY FEW people listen to, but nevertheless have to pay for) . You wanna live in America? Speak, read and understand ENGLISH!!! It's fine to speak a foreign language in the privacy of your own home, or among your friends and family. But the airwaves in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, should be exclusively ENGLISH SPEAKING.
If you disagree, fine. State your case. I've stated mine.

You know, every fall for the past several years I debated switching to DirecTV to get that Sunday Ticket, so I could watch the teams I like instead of what the local stations chose to give us. Boy am I glad I never did switch. An additional $99 to get games in HD!!!! Duh! HDTV is supposed to be the standard , not a premium package! I hope they lose a ton of subscribers over this.

But I suspect DirecTV isn't the only player in this decision - No one is better at milking the last possible dollar out of something than the NFL. I started watching more college football last fall to get my football fix and found I enjoy college games better - less scripted, more exciting. I think I'll be watching a LOT more college games this fall.

Originally posted by DaveinVegas
An additional $99 to get games in HD!!!! Duh!


If they want an additional $99 for HD service that computes to a grand total (for 16 regular season games-not including pre-season) to $6.00 additional per game. Just about the current price of 2 1/2 gallons of gasoline. For the TRUE Football and HD aficionado, I don't see how an additional $6.00 is gonna break you.

Cut back on the number of beers you consume during the games. That should save you your $6.00.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
Cut back on the number of beers you consume during the games. That should save you your $6.00.

Hmmm...I don't consume alcohol whilst taking in an NFL contest. Any non-xenophobic suggestions for a poor soul such as I? ;)

Originally posted by JoustGod
Hmmm...I don't consume alcohol whilst taking in an NFL contest. Any non-xenophobic suggestions for a poor soul such as I? ;)

Yep.

If you don't drink beer then cut back on your popcorn, peanuts, crackerjacks, soda pop and hot dogs.
That should do it.

PS- You used one archaic word (whilst) and one very big word (Xenophobic). I want you to know I'm very impressed. I wish that I had the education that you have. I'm in such awe, I got the chills.

Originally posted by DaveinVegas
You know, every fall for the past several years I debated switching to DirecTV to get that Sunday Ticket, so I could watch the teams I like instead of what the local stations chose to give us. Boy am I glad I never did switch. An additional $99 to get games in HD!!!! Duh! HDTV is supposed to be the standard , not a premium package! I hope they lose a ton of subscribers over this.



They'll lose absolutely NO subscribers over this. I would guess that less than 10% of NFLST subs have HDTV's. Most of the one's who do will probably pay the extra $99. Some won't. It really doesn't matter. They'll still subscribe to the regular SD package. HDTV is hardly "the standard" at this point. No one I know owns an HDTV, neither friends nor family. Most people are still very happy with their old analog TV sets.

Originally posted by bruin95
HDTV is hardly "the standard" at this point. No one I know owns an HDTV, neither friends nor family. Most people are still very happy with their old analog TV sets.

It's interesting that you spend time in the AVS HDTV forums when you don't even know anyone who owns and HDTV.

And yes, the FCC dictated that digital TV is to be the standard, by the end of 2006, as I recall. The FCC does everything in its power to encourage HDTV content because they understand that as long as the majority of TV content remains analog, there is little incentive to upgrade to a digital TV and "most people {will still remain] very happy with their old analog TV sets".

My point in criticizing DirecTV's decision to make HD broadcasts of NFL Sunday Ticket programing a $99 deluxe package is that this goes against the FCC intent of expanding HDTV content. As long as HDTV programing remains a 'luxury package' for the 'exclusive set" who have invested in HDTV equipment, the longer the switchover to digital TV will be delayed.

On the other hand, I've enjoyed an HDTV wide screen since last September. Last Tuesday I spent the night in a hotel while out of town on business and watching the 21" analog TV in the room made me wonder how I put up with analog all those years.

Originally posted by DaveinVegas
It's interesting that you spend time in the AVS HDTV forums when you don't even know anyone who owns and HDTV.



That's because I have an HDTV. What, I'm not allowed in here because I don't know anyone else who has one?

Quoting Bill Veeck ( former owner of the Chicago White Sox)

"Tradition is the strangulation rope around the neck of progress".

Like Cox Cable, the FCC has no ba^^s.

If they mandated that digital TV would become the ONLY standard (lets say by DEC 31, 2005), those who are "quite satisfied with their analog TVs" would have to get off their duffs and do something about the kind of TVs they have in their homes.

Then advertisers would be confident that their HD messages are reaching a predominance of homes/people, and the signal providers (cable, satellite) would not be forced to charge a premium for their services. And you can bet that the number of available HD channels would suddenly SOAR. Everything from A to Z would be in HD. Sooner, rather than later. The sudden need for new TVs would spur competition and further drive the price of the new sets down.

But of course the FCC, like all branches of our government can't see any further than the length of its arm. And the problem continues, and the problem festers, and the problem gets more (instead of less) complicated.

For the record, the digital transition as it applies to the FCC, is only for OTA broadcasts. Those stations have to provide a digital version of their signal, and eventually cease their analog transmissions. There are no resolution requirements, and each station can just encode their analog signal to digital. High Definition is a bonus that "SOME" stations are using when going above the digital standard, but is not mandated anywhere, by anyone.
All other cable and satellite derived channels that are not transmitted via free Off The Air on TV frequencies are not mandated to be constructed, sent, or displayed digitally, let alone in HD formats.

BTW, the Helldorado parade was definately simulcast in at least the San Diego and San Francisco markets. Not sure of what other markets it was broadcast, but those two were listed in the article I read.
Also, the Non-English speaking market in Las Vegas is very large and growing. That market is much larger than the HDTV market. The audio only channels, which take up virtually no space at all, compared to any other channel, are in fact used by almost every hotel, and many, many other commercial establishments.

vegggas

Vegggas glad to hear you been in my hotel. If I had known I would have brought you in and shown you my office and large round pool workplace. Let me know if your still around and I will see if I can give you a tour.

Originally posted by Word Maestro
You wanna live in America? Speak, read and understand ENGLISH!!! It's fine to speak a foreign language in the privacy of your own home, or among your friends and family. But the airwaves in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, should be exclusively ENGLISH SPEAKING.
If you disagree, fine. State your case. I've stated mine.

So typical of your posts WM. If it doesn't suit you, it doesn't belong. Somebody steal this biggot's keyboard PLEASE !!

Word Maestro, Maybe there should only be one favorite color allowed, and we can all wear the same brand clothes, have the same color hair, eat the same food and which religion would you suggest we all should follow?

Originally posted by gworkman
Somebody steal this biggot's keyboard PLEASE !!

First of all, I'm not bigoted. Only strongly opinionated. And if you want my Keyboard stolen, why don't you do the deed yourself, instead of pleading for somebody else to do your dirty work for you?

And PS - "Bigot" has only one "g".

vegashomes,
Brand of clothes, color of hair, foods consumed and religion are all PERSONAL preferences. I couldn't care less which of those items is chosen by anybody.

But the PUBLIC airwaves should (IMO) be all ENGLISH, 365, 7, 24, If an immigrant decides to settle in this country, he/she should learn ENGLISH, speak and read it at every opportunity, and try to assimilate into american society. Instead, they fragment it, and seem to want to impose their culture (or lack of it ) on america. Tough titty!!! I don't buy it and I don't like it.

Maybe the next step will be that american businesses will be forced to accept pesos and lira instead of dollars? Won't THAT be wonderful??

I think everyone I know will pay the extra $99 for the HD. However, it is a shame that they need to tax the folks who purchase and support bleeding edge technology. Right now, the only advantage Direct TV has over cable (IMO) is the NFL Sunday Ticket. Once the contract runs out and the cable companies make a bid for making it a non-exclusive package, then I think Direct TV will be in trouble.


And for the record, I think I will need to drink more beer to forget about paying the extra $99. ;)



Originally posted by bruin95
They'll lose absolutely NO subscribers over this. I would guess that less than 10% of NFLST subs have HDTV's. Most of the one's who do will probably pay the extra $99. Some won't. It really doesn't matter. They'll still subscribe to the regular SD package. HDTV is hardly "the standard" at this point. No one I know owns an HDTV, neither friends nor family. Most people are still very happy with their old analog TV sets.

I think we are in a transition phase to making HD mainstream.


I tend to judge the mainstream by asking a simple question, do my parents have it? With HD, they just bought their first HDTV about 6 months ago. (This transition was much quicker than their conversion from records to CDs.)



Originally posted by bruin95
They'll lose absolutely NO subscribers over this. I would guess that less than 10% of NFLST subs have HDTV's. Most of the one's who do will probably pay the extra $99. Some won't. It really doesn't matter. They'll still subscribe to the regular SD package. HDTV is hardly "the standard" at this point. No one I know owns an HDTV, neither friends nor family. Most people are still very happy with their old analog TV sets.

Originally posted by Tallen234



I tend to judge the mainstream by asking a simple question, do my parents have it? With HD, they just bought their first HDTV about 6 months ago. (This transition was much quicker than their conversion from records to CDs.)

Their highly intelligent and techno-oriented son doesn't seem to have much influence with Mom and Dad. Remember, "Tradition is the strangulation rope around the neck of progress".

But I must try, like water on a rock. At least I was able to convince them to get the 8000HD, so now they have PVR....and actually use it.



Originally posted by Word Maestro
Their highly intelligent and techno-oriented son doesn't seem to have much influence with Mom and Dad. Remember, "Tradition is the strangulation rope around the neck of progress".

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Word Maestro
Tough titty!!! QUOTE]

You are the most blissful man I know!

Originally posted by vegggas
For the record, the digital transition as it applies to the FCC, is only for OTA broadcasts. Those stations have to provide a digital version of their signal, and eventually cease their analog transmissions. There are no resolution requirements, and each station can just encode their analog signal to digital. High Definition is a bonus that "SOME" stations are using when going above the digital standard, but is not mandated anywhere, by anyone.
All other cable and satellite derived channels that are not transmitted via free Off The Air on TV frequencies are not mandated to be constructed, sent, or displayed digitally, let alone in HD formats.
vegggas

OK, so the FCC requires OTA the broadcasts to be in digital. Some of these broadcasters chose to broadcast in HD, presumably to attract more viewers and/or keep up with the competition. DirecTV then picks up these feeds and spins them into added value package for $99. I still think this hinders the spread of digital / HD content. But, that's free enterprise. If people are willing to pay it, then obviously they've found their market. I just won't be one of the folks lining up to pay the $99. But, as I said in my original post, for several years I debated switching to satellite for the Sunday Ticket, but never did. I didn't like the idea of extra equipment and 1 year contract. As someone who has been married & divorced twice and now happily single, I guess long term commitments are not my forte. :p

Sadly I will be that guy and pay for the HD of ST. I enjoyed it last year and have a couple of friends who watch with us and have always chipped in on the cost, and they have already said they will do so this year. I would have still paid it without them though. The NFL is one of my fav things to watch and its a guilty pleasure to pay the 99 bucks for it.

Does anyone get a loud, for lack of a better term, "screeching" sound during certain broadcasts on the HD channels. It sounds almost like a taser/stun gun type sound. It typically happens once during the broadcast and i've only heard it about 3-5 times in the last 2 months or so. It may even be limited to ABC as I heard it during Lost this week and desparate housewives. It is very loud. Any ideas?

Does anyone get a loud, for lack of a better term, "screeching" sound during certain broadcasts on the HD channels. It sounds almost like a taser/stun gun type sound. It typically happens once during the broadcast and i've only heard it about 3-5 times in the last 2 months or so. It may even be limited to ABC as I heard it during Lost this week and desparate housewives. It is very loud. Any ideas?


I have heard it twice, both times on ABC i believe. It only lasted for a couple of seconds.

Is it my imagination or is this the longest stretch without any activity on this thread? And no, maestro of words, I am not trying to compel you to wake up. I figure you are too busy watching baseball on the dish.

On a somewhat related note, I was once again dismayed at missing yet another HD baseball presentation as the SF Giants feel the need to make LV their "market". I know others have written and called as I have to cable companies, In Demand, and even MLB themselves to no avail. They have all perfected the art of pointing the finger at the others as well as a response that always sounds like, "Gosh, I don't know why that's happening.". Let's get good ol' Oscar Goodman to put a rush order in on that baseball franchise for us thus releasing us from our 6-team "market" hell. I've written to others in different parts of the US of A and they can't even fathom our situation. They think I'm making it up. ARGH!!!

Thank you for listening to this venting...:-)

On a somewhat related note, I was once again dismayed at missing yet another HD baseball presentation as the SF Giants feel the need to make LV their "market".

Well you woke me up whether you wanted to or not.
Your rant is exactly why I not only subscribe to Cox Cable for its local network HD stations but to DirectV as well for ts Sports Packages.

DirectTV offers the same MLB baseball package as Cox Cable, WITH ONE DIFFERENCE. They ALSO offer the FOX REGIONAL SPORTS NETWORKS, which Cox does NOT and NEVER has offered. That means any Giant, or Athletic game on FSBay Area (FSBA) and any game of the Diamondbacks on FSAZ (even if blacked out on the MLB Extra Innings Package) WILL be visible in the Las Vegas area if you subscribe to the Fox Regional Networks ($12.00 per month). Since more than 50% of the games of the Giants, Athletics and Diamondbacks are on the Fox Regional Networks you can see many more of the games you want.

For example tonight the NY Mets are playing the Diamondbacks in NY. The game is on the MLB Extra Innings package handled by FSNY (Fox Sports NY). That WILL be blacked out here in LV. . But that game is also on FSAZ, which if you have the Regional Sports networks, remains accessible to you on DirectTV channel 649.

So YES, there's a way around everything, you just have to be willing to pay for it. I get the Padres on Cox Channel 96, the Dbacks on DirectTv 649 and the Giants and Athletics on DirectV 658 (I think-but anyway I GET EM')

PS. Pre and Post game shows are also available (no charge) on these Regional Networks, which the Cox Cable-MLB package NEVER presents. On Cox.they take the air as the game is starting and leave the air before the players leave the field.

Thats why I think Cox services to the baseball lover is sparse, incomplete and approaches nothingness.. And THEY don't care.

It's the MLB Extra innings that is cutting off the post game coverage, not Cox or any other cable system.

Like some others on this thread, I get both Directtv and Cox, and have both HD DVR's. However, I really like the TIVO much better than the 8000 I have from Cox. I don't have my HD TIVO hooked up to any antenna and as a result get little or no OTA local HD channels. I would like to try an indoor antenna to get the OTA signals. IT would be in an upstairs room. I live near Russell and Jones in SW Vegas. Any ideas on an antenna which would meet my needs, or do I have to set up a rooftop antenna to get OTA HD? Thanks for any suggestions!

It's the MLB Extra innings that is cutting off the post game coverage, not Cox or any other cable system.

OK, so you've placed blame.

Now, hows about Cox carrying the Regional Sports Networks, so that such an excuse will no longer be valid? And baseball loving viewers will NOT have ro spend additional dollars per month to get the games on DirectV.
I don't inderstand why there are so many defenders of the Cox Cable way of doing things?
They simply have no regard for the wants of the viewers. With Cox, it's "take it or leave it", "like it or lump it".

I live near Russell and Jones in SW Vegas.

So then why does your "Location" say "SW ORLANDO"?

Although I certainly share your frustration, and I personally, would want the extended regional sports networks, but there is a big difference between Cox and DirectTV. One is a local cable service the other is a nationwide satellite system. In other words, Cox's primary goal is the serve the local market. While DirectTV is to serve the nationwide market.

How far do you want Cox to carry the regional networks? Should they carry Fox Sports - South? Or NESN? Or the Yes network? Or Puerto Rico Local Access? Eventually, they need to make a business decision as to what they will carry. They do carry both Fox Sports West channels. Cox will have to pay to acquire additional channels, so the cable bill will go up, which will probably upset a lot of consumers.

I think the solution would be to have an extended "Sports Tier" which will provide access to those that want to pay for it. Better yet, modify the local market MLB rules to allow all games to be shown on Extra Innings.

Ok, I admit I am biased because we were able to convince cox to show the Padres.



OK, so you've placed blame.

Now, hows about Cox carrying the Regional Sports Networks, so that such an excuse will no longer be valid? And baseball loving viewers will NOT have ro spend additional dollars per month to get the games on DirectV.
I don't inderstand why there are so many defenders of the Cox Cable way of doing things?
They simply have no regard for the wants of the viewers. With Cox, it's "take it or leave it", "like it or lump it".

Also, one more prop for Cox. I heard they are going to start showing the NFL network on June 30.

How far do you want Cox to carry the regional networks? Should they carry Fox Sports - South? Or NESN? Or the Yes network? Or Puerto Rico Local Access? Eventually, they need to make a business decision as to what they will carry. They do carry both Fox Sports West channels. Cox will have to pay to acquire additional channels, so the cable bill will go up, which will probably upset a lot of consumers.

I think the solution would be to have an extended "Sports Tier" which will provide access to those that want to pay for it. Better yet, modify the local market MLB rules to allow all games to be shown on Extra Innings.

.

1. Cox should carry ALL the Fox Regional Sports Networks on a pay-per-view basis. I don't expect them to provide them for me without additional fees. But since I want BASEBALL, I'm willing to pay for it. DirectV charges $12 per month for those networks, Will that "braek anybodys budget"? I don't think so.

2. I have written to Senator Reid and Senator Ensign about the "rules" regarding game blackouts in the LV market on MLB "Extra Innings". They too, "sympathize", but can't do a damned thing about it. The ONLY solution is for LV to aquire an ML team. That would prevent all others from claiming LV as home territory and thus permit telecasts. But despite the publicity hype from Mayor Goodman, I believe the chances of LV EVER aquiring a major league baseball franchixe are about as good as Osama Bin Laden saying he loves America, the jews and the democratic way of life. It'll NEVER happen.

Also, one more prop for Cox. I heard they are going to start showing the NFL network on June 30.

You apparently think you're reading something that you are NOT really reading.

The NFL Network merely shows highlights of the previous weeks games and features interviews with players and coaches. But it does NOT offer the "Sunday Ticket" NFL Games

If you think that's a "breakthrough" you're more naive than I imagined.

[QUOTE=JoustGod]Is it my imagination or is this the longest stretch without any activity on this thread? And no, maestro of words, I am not trying to compel you to wake up. I figure you are too busy watching baseball on the dish.

QUOTE]


OK Joust...are you happy now?

Word Maestro...................because I moved here last year from Orlando, was on the forum there, and didn't change it on my profile.

Why the concern? Are there spies on this thread from other cities stealing valuable information to the detriment of Vegas tv watchers?

Despite the 3rd degree, I still would appreciate any suggestions as to a good indoor antenna capable of getting HD OTA channels, thanks!

[QUOTE=JoustGod]Is it my imagination or is this the longest stretch without any activity on this thread? And no, maestro of words, I am not trying to compel you to wake up. I figure you are too busy watching baseball on the dish.

QUOTE]


OK Joust...are you happy now?

Heh...what a can of worms I have opened.

While I like the idea of an added tier of sports viewing options for a fee ( I don't mind myself for the summer months), I am more concerned in keeping this thought specifically for the INHD broadcasts at this time. The added tier idea is for another thread, another day. I greatly disliked being blacked out of the SF/PHI game the other night as I've had a positive experience with Philly's HD broadcasts via INHD in the past. Sadly, as a Cub fan, I'm expecting to get blacked out of tonight's CHI/SD INHD broadcast. :( But, then again since Cox is currently carrying Padres broadcasts, why not carry this on? Hope I'm wrong in assuming the blackout.

I don't think ANY cable system in the country carries all regional sports nets.

If any of you are interested, it sounds like Gregg Loewen will be doing an ISF tour here in Vegas in July. For those of you who haven't heard of Gregg, he is one of the top ISF calibrators in the country. You can reach him through his website at lionav.com.

Apparently, word maestro has some difficulty with words. Although I appreciate your efforts to divine what I am reading and what I am NOT reading. I did say "NFL Network", not the "NFL Sunday Ticket." Moreover, I did not refer to it as a "breakthrough." I was only providing some praise for Cox adding the NFL Network (obviously they cannot add the NFL Sunday TIcket because DirecTV has an exclusive contract with the NFL).

For us football junkies, the additional highlights, commentary and additional coverage provided by the NFL Network are great. For example, for us draftniks, the NFL Network covered the Combine and provided "behind the curtain" access into teams evaluations of potential draftees. Additionally, during the football season, you get another layer of analysis, such as film review that you would not get from ESPN, etc. Such a review provides detailed analysis for the actual plays being run against specific defenses (on more of a coaching "x's and o's type level).




You apparently think you're reading something that you are NOT really reading.

The NFL Network merely shows highlights of the previous weeks games and features interviews with players and coaches. But it does NOT offer the "Sunday Ticket" NFL Games

If you think that's a "breakthrough" you're more naive than I imagined.

Pretty funny. A buddy of mine just got his Elite 710 Calibrated during CES by Eliab. I am thinking about moving, so I don't want to get my Panny calibrating prior to moving. Nice timing! But I do highly recommend those with RPTV to get their TV"s calibrated, it makes a BIG difference. Although I have never used Gregg, I know he is very respected in the community.


If any of you are interested, it sounds like Gregg Loewen will be doing an ISF tour here in Vegas in July. For those of you who haven't heard of Gregg, he is one of the top ISF calibrators in the country. You can reach him through his website at lionav.com.

Pretty funny. A buddy of mine just got his Elite 710 Calibrated during CES by Eliab. I am thinking about moving, so I don't want to get my Panny calibrating prior to moving. Nice timing! But I do highly recommend those with RPTV to get their TV"s calibrated, it makes a BIG difference. Although I have never used Gregg, I know he is very respected in the community.


I have read various reviews about how much better a properly calibrated television looks, but I just can't get by the cost factor. I mean, my picture right now is pretty damn good just with my own little tweaking, but will it be that much better after spending about $600 to get a full calibration? Its a matter of getting the bang for the buck. If it were only a couple of hundred I'd probably wouldn't hesitate getting it done.

I don't think ANY cable system in the country carries all regional sports nets.

I see no significance in that statement. Somebody has to "lead" while others "follow".

Las Vegas is a city with a VERY diverse population. People live here, that have emigrated from ALL other regions of the country. And they would like nothing better than to maintain the "fan" relationship with the team they may have followed for many years. That's why those regional sports networks are more important here, than elsewhere.

The "demand" probably exists, the "supply" doesn't.

I am installing a number of HD D*TV SAT boxes in a home in Lake las Vegas. I have a few questions.
1) What is the local HD reception like in that area?
2) What antenna is needed?
3) Is there covenant restrictions from the neighborhood board in putting a VHF antenna on the home's rooftop?
4) If anyone is familiar with this HD in this area, what did you do to get local HD channels?
Thanks for your help,
Rob

Has anyone here had problems with the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 3250HD receiving Remote commands. I have to be 2 feet away from the box for it to even register commands. I tried another remote and the same problems still occurs. I also made sure the batteries were fresh.

Is this a known problem with this box from Cox Cable?

Rob......... welcome to Vegas......

I notice you are from Alpine... I just bought a home in Cedar Hills last fall.... anyway to answer your questions....

1. Great depending on where you are going to live... I am at the Flamingo/Durango area (west side) and have terrific reception on a wing UHF antenna mounted in my attic. I understand if you live directly under Black Mountain that the reception is not as good.

2. Put your address into www.antennaweb.com and they should give you guidance as to what would work best for you.

3. Almost every Home Owners Association (especially Summerlin) has restrictions against visible antenna's. Fortunately thanks to a ruling by the FCC it is against Federal Law for them to restrict your access to any signal, satellite or OTA broadcast. So they will Huff & Puff and send you nasty letters..., but in the end if you tell them you can send them a copy of the FCC statue if they don't have one handy... they will skulk off whimpering to the corner.

4. I used to have Cox Cable and they carry about 13 I believe HD channels... they also have and HD PVR available quite reasonably. Cox unfortunately is the best "bang for the buck," here in Vegas. I am getting my HD locals from my subscription in Cedar Hills... don't know what DTV/Dish do for local folks I got grand-fathered in under an old subscription rule.

Welcome.............

Still trying to figure out this new interface, but I finally found this page again...

belabean / Rob,
There may have been some confusion about where you are installing the HD equipment. If you are in the Lakes of Las Vegas, On the West side of town, then follow HiHoStevo's advice and check antennaweb.org. If you are installing in Lake Las Vegas, East of Henderson, out off of Lake Mead, then you may have reception problems. I don't think any of the properties have a direct line of sight with Black Mouintain and the transmitters. The local mountains may also block most of the OTA transmissions too. It may take some experimentation to get an antenna to pull in the higher power stations, if they are even possible to get. I don't think D* will grant a waiver being that close to Vegas, but it's worth a shot for the national feeds. The feeds from Cox (if available) are over QAM modulation, so the D* equipment will not tune them. You would need an HD STB, CableCard enabled device, or TV/Tuner with QAM capabilities. The local channels are not encrypted, but they do require basic access fees and the right tuner.

sanjoseskater,
The 3250 is a very stable STB and should not have the problems you are talking about. I am watching mine right now at about 15 ft away and can point the remote towards the back wall and still easily control the box after more than doubling the distance. The IR sensor is located just above the"mail indicator" symbol on the left side of the box. The most common reason for this to happen is due to IR interference from other light sources, especially sunlight and full spectrum lighting (or faulty flourescents and neon) or blockage of the sensor due to installation and cabinet. Try testing during different times of the day to eliminate sunlight, and try turning of different lights to see if any remedy the situation. I had an install once drive me crazy for the exact same reason - IR would not work on some of the devices, but ok on others. It took me two days before the owner confided to me that there was a hidden camera pointed at the installation location from about 5 feet away. It was a "see in the dark" camera with IR spotlights that effectively washed out all remote signals trying to get to the equipment.

Looks like the Tyson fight is available in HD PPV on channel 701. Laila Ali is also on the card. I don't know the specifics, but I'm sure if anyone is interested enough, they will pony up for it in HD over SD.

Taz, Word, others,
No, there are no cable companies carrying all the regional sports nets. Local franchises are prohibited from carrying other regions for specific reasons laid out by the sports franchises.

Calibrations done by Gregg Loewen are top notch. If you ever tweaked your set and noticed an improvement, professional calibration will amaze you. Be honest with him and ask him what can be done and what you want done. Setting the temperature correctly and adjusting the color with an analyzer and programming the I2C chips will make a huge difference. Adjusting the geometry and other physical restraints are much more time consuming, and expensive, but very well worth it. I had Craig M. (another well know calibrator doing tours) do my calibration after I did the geometry and first level calibration. I did a good job, but he did a MUCH better job. Video Essentials and other DVD's will only get you about 15 - 20% improvement over typical standard setups - Professional Calibration will get you anywhere from 75 -95% improvement - YMMV. It's sort of like buying a high performance sportscar, but only driving it down rutted dirt roads. You never see the true potential until you hit the highway or racetrack.

vegggas

I was just going to comment that Channel 701 popped up on the Guide today. Will this be a permanent channel or only a Pay-per-view special event type channel?




Looks like the Tyson fight is available in HD PPV on channel 701. Laila Ali is also on the card. I don't know the specifics, but I'm sure if anyone is interested enough, they will pony up for it in HD over SD.

vegggas

PPV Special Event, they've had it up before for a fight.