Don't Panic, but .... Going back to the original rule making, WDKY had 45 days from Jan 23 or Jan 29 to file a minor change (Form 301.)

I'm not going to panic :) March 9th date when the rule went into effect is the start of the 45 days, and there's something about the need for the rule to exist in the federal register. This is why the attorneys handle these things :)

Rumor has it that Sinclair is already spending money on this, and they would like to come up on channel 31 very shortly after turning off the analog transmitter. If an STA is issued, maybe shortly means the time it takes a climber to retune the channel 56 antenna. It would be easy to have everything in place on one HPA/exciter to transition at midnight June 12 if the paperwork is in place and climbers and equipment (TDR, spectrum analyzer, whatever else is needed) are available. That's the big "if" because June 12 will be a busy day for those capable of transitioning a transmitter.

On another side note/RANT. Why can't WLEX get their act together on the populating of PSIP guide info?
All to often, all that is in the guide during primetime hours is 'DTV Program' in half hour blocks.
Anybody have a good email addy to the 'proper' person regarding this?


Sam Gordon might be able to help you, he posts in here. I don't know what equipment WLEX is using, but I do know that WDKY uses Guidebuilder for PSIP, and Titan TV updates the PSIP data for WDKY, not the other way around :) Of course Titan TV must get their local programming data from the station, but even this could be automated with the traffic/automation software.

I'm not going to panic :) March 9th date when the rule went into effect is the start of the 45 days, and there's something about the need for the rule to exist in the federal register. This is why the attorneys handle these things :)

Arrrrrrrrrgh!!!! Legalesed again. :D

I was using the proceeding/publishing date .... like I said ... otherworldly skills required. :)

On another side note/RANT. Why can't WLEX get their act together on the populating of PSIP guide info?
All to often, all that is in the guide during primetime hours is 'DTV Program' in half hour blocks.
Anybody have a good email addy to the 'proper' person regarding this?

I guess this peeves me off, because someone at WLEX is already responsible for giving the likes of TV Guide, Titan, etc. the proper schedule(all local programming shows up fine on those services), so why the lack of attention with the PSIP guide info?
It's a process/computer thing. The proper schedule IS given out to the appropriate places. But the schedule doesn't go directly to PSIP. I'm guessing stations across the country do it this way... there's a computer that downloads the information from a service (the service varies by station). That computer then sends the program guide information to the encoder where it goes out the transmission. Probably 3 out of 4 times, this happens seamlessly and automatically. However, sometimes the communication between the 'PSIP' Computer and the encoder gets out of whack, requiring user intervention.

Now for the tricky part... when do you (at home) see the PSIP data... when you're changing channels, looking for show information, or looking to see what's on other channels right? But at a television station you don't change the channels... you just want to monitor your signal. Therefore you don't see PSIP info and don't see 'DTV Program'.

Now, as far as contacting the station... I don't see an engineering email address on the website, but if you send to wlextv (at) lex18.com, I'm positive it will get forwarded to engineering. If you'd rather call, the toll free number is 800-255-4566. Dial 0 for the operator and she can transfer you to engineering.

We don't use a service since we generate all the schedules in house. It goes from our listings to Tribune,TVguide, and to the PSIP system which is muxed into the transport stream. I do try to review the data to make sure we don't crash the database.

PSIP check is one of my daily tasks along with many other things.

PSIP check is one of my daily tasks along with many other things.But that won't tell you when it drops out (like you'd get with a loss of audio or video). My point was just there's user intervention needed to check PSIP.

WDKY's construction permit for 31 was granted today:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1299072&Service=DT&Form_id=301&Facility_id=64017

It shows a filing date of 3/23, but I didn't see it before the grant.

1000kW/352m/ND/Elliptical

Update to previous post:
Talked with Directv Retention today. Actions initiated to get me a HR2x-non100 replacement unit next Monday. Guess we'll see what happens.
3/25 Update:
DTV Installer came Monday and swapped HR22-100 for defective HR20-100. At his suggestion, I had already talked with DTV and they agreed to send an AM21 since HR22 has no OTA capability otherwise. So far HR22 works great; still awaiting the delivery of the AM21. I also had the Installer (very nice and most competent by the way) get oral confirmation from DTV that AM21 was being sent and that the DVR exchange was noted in my file as a replacement under the Protection Plan rather than a new install so that commitment time is not extended.

First off, I've been reading this forum for a little while & you all have made some incredibly helpful posts. I finally joined b/c I need some advice.
Mounted a rooftop clearsream2 "bow tie" antenna last weekend & in G'Town & was receiving all the Lex channels in HD except WDKY, but they had a good analog & I figured I'd get them in HD when they moved to channel 31. Yesterday afternoon, I saw that my signal strength was in the 60's on most channels. (It had been running in the 90's). All the digital channels dropped out yesterday evening, and my signal strength is in the single digits or nonexistent. Also, analog channels are snowy. Is this just weather, or is there anything that could have happened to cause this? Is this just what happens to digital signals in the rain? Any ideas are appreciated. I had a week of perfect HD with no problems, now- kaput!

Check to make sure all cables are tight. You don't say where the antenna is mounted, but is it possible it got bumped or moved somehow? Are you splitting the signal? Bypass the splitter (put the antenna to one TV) and see what happens. Are you amplifying the signal? Bypass the amp and see what happens.

Take each segment and test it (antenna to just one tv-- might need to change cable). Keep adding segments (splitter, amplifier, etc) to see what's causing the problem.

DoH! It's always those cables isn't it. Well, great picture back again. I checked 'em before I posted, but didn't detach them & then reattach. That did the trick. Simple stuff.

DoH! It's always those cables isn't it. Well, great picture back again. I checked 'em before I posted, but didn't detach them & then reattach. That did the trick. Simple stuff.

You might want to go cable by cable and wiggle the ends. Sounds like you could have a bad end on the cable.

FCC Watch Update:

The official WDKY application for Ch31 has been posted .... 1000kW, Omni-directional .... Glitches be gone! :)

I just noticed that WTVQ is finally available in HD on TWC in Winchester. It shows up as channel 115.2 on my QAM-capable tuner in my TV set. 115.3 is the MyTVQ subchannel

Well, I see WKYT has started running an additional 2-3 minutes of commercials over the start of Letterman. At first I thought this was just overrun from all B-Ball all the time mode, but it has persisted this week.

That's fine, I can switch my Season Passes to WLKY ... it'll be a pain to remember to switch antennas at 11pm, but I think the free pass days are just about over.

Well, I see WKYT has started running an additional 2-3 minutes of commercials over the start of Letterman. At first I thought this was just overrun from all B-Ball all the time mode, but it has persisted this week.

That's fine, I can switch my Season Passes to WLKY ... it'll be a pain to remember to switch antennas at 11pm, but I think the free pass days are just about over.

I wish I had that option (as well as for WBKI). I suspect the ball games have had something to do with the overrun of commercials on KYT. The other day WLEX interrupted a Zyrtec commercial with 'breaking news' to tell us about coach Calipari. Probably ticked off advertisers, so they are running commercials over programming to make up for it. These Lex locals do whatever they want evidently. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTg9Duj87ic
They have no shame!

The other day WLEX interrupted a Zyrtec commercial with 'breaking news' to tell us about coach Calipari. ...

They have no shame!

LOL ... yep, it's good to see we've fixed all the problems facing the Commonwealth. We can all safely go about our normal business now. :rolleyes:

Now, pass the chips, dips and cigs please. :D

3/25 Update:
DTV Installer came Monday and swapped HR22-100 for defective HR20-100. At his suggestion, I had already talked with DTV and they agreed to send an AM21 since HR22 has no OTA capability otherwise. So far HR22 works great; still awaiting the delivery of the AM21. I also had the Installer (very nice and most competent by the way) get oral confirmation from DTV that AM21 was being sent and that the DVR exchange was noted in my file as a replacement under the Protection Plan rather than a new install so that commitment time is not extended.

AM21 arrived and was easily installed. Now, after several days of use, I can attest that it, along with the HR22-100, works very well for local OTA digital reception. Wish I'd pursued that option months ago! (Installer mentioned that he's replaced several HR20-100's with exactly the same issues I'd had.)

^^^ Good to hear ... Now lets hope Tribune, DirecTV and the local stations get their PSIP ducks all in a row on June 12 ... or whenever WDKY switches over to Ch31.

Smallville/Superatural Fans .... Heads up!

For those of us who may have missed the 1/29 Episodes because you were sitting in the dark and freezing your ****s off, TheCW is re-running them this Thursday (4/9)

AM21 arrived and was easily installed. Now, after several days of use, I can attest that it, along with the HR22-100, works very well for local OTA digital reception. Wish I'd pursued that option months ago! (Installer mentioned that he's replaced several HR20-100's with exactly the same issues I'd had.)

Agreed. I'm picking up the big 4 all with 99% signal strength using the AM21.

Agreed. I'm picking up the big 4 all with 99% signal strength using the AM21.

Same signal strength I'm getting, except on WDKY56 which is only 45 - 50% (using an attic-located large directional antenna pointed toward 56's digital tower). So far, the AM21 is even doing a good job holding its signal. After it moves to 31, I'm hoping that signal strength will match the other network stations.

Same signal strength I'm getting, except on WDKY56 which is only 45 - 50% (using an attic-located large directional antenna pointed toward 56's digital tower). So far, the AM21 is even doing a good job holding its signal. After it moves to 31, I'm hoping that signal strength will match the other network stations.

I found that if you point your antenna at WDKY 56, I mean dead on you can get 95% or better. From there the rest come in around 99% if that helps...

I found that if you point your antenna at WDKY 56, I mean dead on you can get 95% or better. From there the rest come in around 99% if that helps...

I expect that the challenge for me is that I have the antenna in the attic rather than outside. I do have it aimed as close as I can directly at WDKY's tower. So far, the AM21's tuners have held it's signal sufficently so I'll go with that. Hopefully later this year, Lexington will get local HD delivered by Directv and/or the switch to channel 31 for WDKY will furhter increase reception.
Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.

Hi
I am in morehead KY 40351. Has any one been able to get the big 4 networks over the air free (indoor or outdoor antenna?)
i can only pick up KET1 from my indoor rabbit ears!

thanks!!

Hi
I am in morehead KY 40351. Has any one been able to get the big 4 networks over the air free (indoor or outdoor antenna?)
i can only pick up KET1 from my indoor rabbit ears!

thanks!!
I'm pretty sure you would need an outdoor antenna (directional) to pick up any Lexington broadcast from Morehead. And when you say you only get 'KET1', is that analog or digital?

FCC Watch Update:

The official WDKY application for Ch31 has been posted .... 1000kW, Omni-directional .... Glitches be gone! :)

I haven't kept up with the transition that closely. Does this mean they are switching away from VHF with this move?

I am in Nichoalsville and have a small Stealth antenna on my roof. Fox digital drops in/out depending on conditions (70% in/30% out). All others are rock solid signals from Lexington. It stinks because I have to set my HD-DVR to record the crappy SD feed from Directv to watch my shows as the digital is too unreliable. I've given up on getting HD locals from them.

I haven't kept up with the transition that closely. Does this mean they are switching away from VHF with this move?

Yes. From channel 4 to channel 31.

- Trip

I'm pretty sure you would need an outdoor antenna (directional) to pick up any Lexington broadcast from Morehead. And when you say you only get 'KET1', is that analog or digital?

Its a digital signal

Wasn't WKYT supposed to shutoff the analog signal yesterday?

I've been having a tough time with WDKY OTA and a stable signal. I've not changed any setup in my 3 years at this house and since last week FOX is impossible to watch on only my Media Center PC. Whatever is going on has no affect on the other digital locals OTA in the area on the same MCE PC\same Hauppauge tuner card. Totally bizarre. The audio is constantly broken and video glitches every now and then. I can tune to WLEX or WKYT or KET and the live buffer is fine\recordings are fine, but when I switch over to WDKY it all goes to hell in a hand basket. Did WDKY change something in the stream that my MCE PC and tuner card now dislikes? I can tune WDKY on a CECB or other tuner card just fine, but of course on the PC that is most convenient to record\watch Lexington locals in HD.. this random FOX problem had to come out of nowhere!

Wasn't WKYT supposed to shutoff the analog signal yesterday?

Apparently, they are night-lighting ... or collecting bonus points for continuing to interfere with WLKY-DT on Ch26. ;)

I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary for WDKY ...

Its a digital signal
I'm pretty sure KET has a transmitter in the Morehead area. So that may be the signal you're picking up... not the transmitter from Lexington. What channel number is displayed?

Again, especially if you're done in the valley, you're going to need an outdoor directional antenna to have ANY chance of picking up Lexington stations.

Apparently, they are night-lighting ... or collecting bonus points for continuing to interfere with WLKY-DT on Ch26. ;)

I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary for WDKY ...


Must just be the Media Center PC and tuner card arbitrarily decided I shall not watch American Idol without constant breakups. WDKY is fine on any other digital tuners in the house and the PC can tune all the other locals digitally without incident. Truly bizzare! It just means I should be watching American Idol live and not time-shifted I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenCJedi View Post
Wasn't WKYT supposed to shutoff the analog signal yesterday?
Apparently, they are night-lighting ... or collecting bonus points for continuing to interfere with WLKY-DT on Ch26.


According to the Lexington paper, WKYT is nightlighting through this Sunday, April 19.

Must just be the Media Center PC and tuner card arbitrarily decided I shall not watch American Idol without constant breakups.

LOL ... maybe it's just achieved self-awareness and is trying to tell you something. ;)

Meanwhile, if 4 days of night-lighting on the "Home of all things Holy in KY" (aka UK B-Ball) doesn't get the stragglers off of their backsides, there's no hope.

PS: It's good to see the new "Pope" has acquired his mansion. :rolleyes: There are days ....

Whatever is going on has no affect on the other digital locals OTA in the area on the same MCE PC\same Hauppauge tuner card. Totally bizarre ..... I can tune WDKY on a CECB or other tuner card just fine ...


Funny story about a hauppauge HVR-1600 here .. A few months ago, I noticed I was getting what were apparently "reception related" glitches on it, which weren't occuring with any of my other receivers, nor had I experienced such issues before with it, except on one occasion when it was the case, oddly enough, as it turned out, the card needed to be reseated ...

One example -- I'd get up out of the Lazy boy, and I'd get glitches with one station, every time .. Keep in mind, the Lazy boy is located INSIDE the house in a 2nd story room, the antenna is outdoors, tower mounted some 30 feet or so above the "lazy boy", with the tower located some 15 feet or so away from the recliner .. And such that with antenna(XG91) aimed at station, the lazy boy should be about 60 degrees "off target" and in a pretty good null ...

Another test involved Walking dog(on Ground - about 40 feet below antenna) in vicinity of tower also produced such "glitches", and also, noticed some high wind days around that time couple of months ago with wind blowing tree limbs around made a mess as well, whearas again, I'd not run into such issue before ....

Well, to make a long story short, I had forgotten I had updated the drivers for the card recently, and after spending more time and effort than I would have liked pursuing other possibilities .... I finally discovered those "glitches" only occured with the latest drivers available for the card from Hauppauge website(and also occurs with the WHQL drivers that are a early 2008 release on Windows Update Catalog) ...

Going back to older driver release from Mid-2007 solved the problems completely ... I dunno, but unless perhaps something odd is going on that's specific to my setup, my best guess is that it seems for some reason the receiver's AGC seems to be quite broken with the later drivers ....

Another thing I've noticed with HVR1600 (with any driver version I've used) is that its selectivity seems poor vs. my other receivers ... For example, At times when I can decode WDKY-DT perfectly on other receivers, it's a no go with the HVR-1600 UNLESS I knock down WLWT 5 (analog+in same direction as WDKY, about 32 miles away from me with WDKY 118 Miles distant) a bit with a notch filter, or when WDKY is strong enough, add a bit of extra attenuation in feedline (which effectively knocks down everything a bit including WLWT) .... And, keep in mind -- There is an "extra" 4MHZ between channel 4 and 5 ....

Similarly, I get lower signal quality readings (about 18~20dB SNR with the Hauppague signal meter) with it from Cincinnati LP WOTH-LD 47 when 1st adajacent channel station WCET 48 (analog) is on air, but when WCET 48 goes off air (as they do through the week between 1am~6am), the readings immediately increase 4~6dB for WOTH-LD ... But, on all my other receivers, SNR or "signal quality" bar type meter readings don't budge a bit for WOTH-LD, regardless of whether or not WCET is on air ...

Those and a few other things lead me to wonder if all these issues may be driver related, or perhaps even involving something specific to my installation, or if the hardware itself(It's a broadcom Chip for the ATSC demod) just offers poor AGC+selectivity in general compared to my other receivers ....

Then, of course there is also the RF shielding issue when you stick a DTV receiver(hopefully well seated into a PCI or PCIE slot), possibly with poor shielding for the tuner components into a PC ... I'd think That sort of thing might probably particularly be an issue on VHF/VHF-LO ... Also, here, I had to reroute Cat 5 cabling and "move" a Ethernet switch to a bit different location when it became apparent the Ethernet switch was creating some pretty nasty RFI on lo-VHF (3 and 4 if I recall correctly) being picked up by my antenna feed (RG6, but Ethernet switch is also located near the spot in attic where I have channel traps/notch filters(in an ammo box) in line on the VHF feed for antenna ..

Again, especially if you're done in the valley, you're going to need an outdoor directional antenna to have ANY chance of picking up Lexington stations.

I dont want to pay windjammer $20/month just for the locals, i just want the 4 networks, and am willing to buy the outdoor antenna but i just want to know whether it could be done before making the investment!!! anyone watching hd locals off the air in morehead???

I dont want to pay windjammer $20/month just for the locals, i just want the 4 networks, and am willing to buy the outdoor antenna but i just want to know whether it could be done before making the investment!!! anyone watching hd locals off the air in morehead???
I guarantee you it can be done. The question is how high of a tower you'll need. :) I suggest going to tvfool.com, putting in your address, and seeing what it tells you. There's lots of information there regarding signal strength.

You might want to go to Skywalker.com and type in 1640 this is a 40 ft extension pole. about $100 I purchased one. I had to extend mine all the way out for my location (41189) will you have to extend it out all the way maybe...maybe not... a few more miles out and elevation higher I might only had to go up 20ft,23,ft maybe 17ft. who knows you in your location might have to extend it a few feet at a time to find the sweet spot for your location that might be 18ft.,24 ft.,30 ft 35ft. who knows different locations and different elevations you might get different results. I also purchased a 8200U Winegard Antenna $119 and a AP8275 Booster/Amp about $50 sure you can purchase these 2 at Radio Shack but will probably cost more. Also there are newer Antennas on the Market which are slimmer 7698P Channels 7-69 36-54 inch wide VS 110 inches wide I do not know about the Mileage on these they might be the same ( 7698 vs 8200U ) but I opted for the 8200 U. Get a Rotor you can get this at Radio Shack and your Rotor Wire or go to Wal-Mart. com and get the Philips Rotor from there and have it shipped free to Moreheads store and pick it up at site to store. Buy 8 Bundles of Guy Wire ( Guide wire I call it ) Depending on how far you have to go up to find your best signal spot. Connect 4 on the Higher extension have 4 Buddies to help you or at least 2. Tightly secure it when finished and done. But at least Guy ( Guide ) the Upper portion so it will not lean too much. Guide the Second section as well IF you need to go up above 30 ft. I have mine up about 40ft I guyed the top and second from top. In all of this High wind mine has not moved. Dig a Hole get a 5 gallon Bucket 2 1/4 inch inside diameter Pole about 8 ft long Dill a hole about 4 inches up use a long bolt evenly on both sides let it set up before it sets up make sure it is plum/level/ straight all the way around make sure your next hole you drill in the pipe is the same as the bottom hole in the extension pole IF not extend the extension pole out about 1 ft so you will not drill into the other sections of the extension pole. Slide the Extension pole into the slightly bigger pipe run your bolt thru and fasten down. This will keep it from spinning DO NOT SET YOUR
ANTENNA UP AROUND ANY ELECTRIC WIRES. Hopefully this will work for you. Will you get every channel you want it will vary. I live in 41189 I can get Cincy 5,9,12,19 and some others I can get Lexington 18,27,36,56 and some others. i doubt you will get Cincy in your locations you might sometimes due to weather, Atsmophere ( not sure if spelled correct or not )but not all times. To see what might be pulled in your location go to www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=wtvq to view a map of the signal look for contour map about 3/4 way down click on it to view the map also you can change the ending from wtvq to wkyt to wlex to
wymt to wcpo to wlwt to wkrc to wxix to wsaz to wowk to whas to others. On good days I can pull in some dayton and columbus so it will vary for you as well. I might add more stuff later
Added 9:28 pm Wtvq and Wlex map is different from what i saw before and Wdky is based on the tower in Danville and not closer to lexington where it appearently is now.

Is there a definite schedule for WDKY's move to channel 31, or is it still up in the air?

Also, does anybody know if KET is going to do something to improve their digital signal at some point? (Red zone isn't close enough...)

thanks

I don't believe there is a date for the DKY switch.

As far as KET... a) what kind of problems are you having and b) which transmitter (they have them scattered about the state) are you trying to tune in?

I can't get WKLE (virtual 46, real 42). Antennaweb says it's in my red zone (I'm near downtown Lexington, not far from the KET studios...)

I wondered if perhaps they'd boost their power after the digital transition - the other UHF stations are pumping out 350-475kW, and KET is a tenth of that...

ETA - Just got off the phone with somebody at KET's transmissions systems. No plans to up their power. Seems really odd that they'd allow their primary market to sit in the red zone....

Jonatha-

I'm in Gtown & get KET 1,2,3,4 fine off my rooftop. I know I'm further from the tower than you.

WDKY emailed this about the switch to 31- seems form letterish to me, so I think they're getting a few inquiries about this:

"Dear Viewer,

WDKY is currently broadcasting in HDTV on VHF channel 4 as assigned by
the FCC. A VHF antenna designed to receive channel 4 is required for
reception of WDKY-DT. WDKY has successfully petitioned the FCC to
change our digital broadcast to UHF channel 31. It is likely that this
change will clear up your reception issues without a requiring a new
antenna. WDKY plans to broadcast on channel 31 at one million watts
from our 1156' tall tower. This would make WDKY the strongest UHF
station in the market from the tallest tower in Central Kentucky. WDKY expects to broadcast on UHF 31 shortly after the channel becomes available for our use (June 13 at the earliest)"

Good luck!

I can't get WKLE (virtual 46, real 42). Antennaweb says it's in my red zone (I'm near downtown Lexington, not far from the KET studios...)

If you are trying to get WKLE or WDKY, make sure you are pointing your antenna towards the I-75 Clays Ferry bridge. At your location, this is probably at least a 90 degree rotation from where WKYT, WLEX and WTVQ are located.

UHF antennas don't work so well (or at all) at 90 degrees off axis.

If you are trying to get WKLE or WDKY, make sure you are pointing your antenna towards the I-75 Clays Ferry bridge. At your location, this is probably at least a 90 degree rotation from where WKYT, WLEX and WTVQ are located.

UHF antennas don't work so well (or at all) at 90 degrees off axis.
Yup. That was my guess. You can try and point down Richmond road toward the interstate (~ 1/2 way between LEX/TVQ/KYT and KET/DKY) and hope you get enough signal from everyone.

If you are trying to get WKLE or WDKY, make sure you are pointing your antenna towards the I-75 Clays Ferry bridge. At your location, this is probably at least a 90 degree rotation from where WKYT, WLEX and WTVQ are located.

UHF antennas don't work so well (or at all) at 90 degrees off axis.

WKYT is 77 degrees, WLEX and WTVQ are 82, WDKY is 140, and WKLE is 141.

I had it at about 90 or so; will try to get a better angle and see what happens.

Jonatha-

I'm in Gtown & get KET 1,2,3,4 fine off my rooftop. I know I'm further from the tower than you. I'm using looped small guage(about 6 loops, 10 inches in diam.) wire that I had laying around, and just kinda of attached it to the exterior of the barrel connector that connects a coax to a ballum that I taped to the leads of an old rabbit ear antenna that had 300 ohm flat wire connected to it. I have this on top of a cabinet on a south facing wall.
I get 13(27), 39(18), 40(36), all 98-100 strength. I get 4(56) and 42(46) both around 74-76. And 21(67) around 80-81.
I'm amazed at how well I get the signals with my rigged up setup.

One note, for some dtv boxes, an amplifier can actually hurt your signal quality moreso than help. I use a DTVPal DVR, and it clearly doesn't like an amplified signal. Your mileage may differ. :)

<snip>WDKY expects to broadcast on UHF 31 shortly after the channel becomes available for our use (June 13 at the earliest)"

From one of my earlier posts:
Don't quote me here or hold this as absolute, ...but, didn't I read here or elsewhere, that until WKRC (Cinn. ch. 12) moves it's digital channel back to 12 from the now temporary ch. 31, that WDKY can't move to ch. 31?

And from what I gather, WKRC is not moving back to ch. 12 until the analog cut-off of June 12th.

I get the feeling that the move to 31 will be June 12th. :(

Pointing it in the proper direction helped quite a bit. Not only am I getting WKLE and an improved signal on WDKY, I'm getting ION from Morehead....

WDKY has placed the order for the channel 31 RF system. They expect to begin broadcasting on channel 31 on June 13. From what I understand, they will need to turn off the channel 4 transmitter or the DTV tuners will get confused with the two TSIDs. Some tuners will actually require the removal of channel 56 (4) before the rescan in order to pick up the channel 56 (31) signal. This is going to be messy for WDKY for a little while, but after a few weeks, channel 4 will be a distant memory!

Just a heads up, Fox is in the process of replacing all the splicers and radios (commonly called satellite receivers but Fox likes the term radios) so I'd expect some technical difficulties during the transition. Since the splicer handles both network and local programming, the difficulties may appear outside of network programming.

Just a heads up, Fox is in the process of replacing all the splicers and radios (commonly called satellite receivers but Fox likes the term radios) so I'd expect some technical difficulties during the transition. Since the splicer handles both network and local programming, the difficulties may appear outside of network programming.

Uh, oh ... here we go again. At least there will be more than one viewer affected this time. ;)

Does June 13 include the new antenna, or are they still planning on using the Ch56 antenna initially?

Nitewatchman That's the EXACT card giving me this trouble with only WDKY-DT. Win-HVR1600 (original one that came out just before Hauppauge put in QAM ability for that series). I updated the driver to the latest and no luck, so I'll roll it back to the 2007 one. I pushed down on the card a little and it didn't move. I will try taking the card out completely and reinsert. The question is why is this card sensitive to only FOX (the channel I want to see most for American Idol)? Hrrmmmff!

Just a heads up, Fox is in the process of replacing all the splicers and radios (commonly called satellite receivers but Fox likes the term radios) so I'd expect some technical difficulties during the transition. Since the splicer handles both network and local programming, the difficulties may appear outside of network programming.
NBC just replaced all the network sat receivers at WLEX. Don't remember many on-air problems.

NBC just replaced all the network sat receivers at WLEX. Don't remember many on-air problems.

I don't expect the radios to cause problems, but the splicer is at the heart of the station's DTV broadcast. While I don't anticipate any issues, things that can go wrong do.

On the up side, I'm pretty sure Fox and NBC both use Ascent Media for satellite work. They are top notch, Ascent Network Services was once part of the Comsat family, they designed and built out the Ku band satellite system that NBC first used back in the 80's. They have many employees that have been around the block a time or two, including the local engineer, Rick. He's my neighbor, and back in the 90's I would have called him a coworker.

I don't expect the radios to cause problems, but the splicer is at the heart of the station's DTV broadcast. While I don't anticipate any issues, things that can go wrong do.

On the up side, I'm pretty sure Fox and NBC both use Ascent Media for satellite work. They are top notch, Ascent Network Services was once part of the Comsat family, they designed and built out the Ku band satellite system that NBC first used back in the 80's. They have many employees that have been around the block a time or two, including the local engineer, Rick. He's my neighbor, and back in the 90's I would have called him a coworker.
Rick's a great guy. And if he's your neighbor, you and I are actually pretty close (from where he described that he lives).

Oh, and Ascent is now USSI (I think that's right).

WDKY has placed the order for the channel 31 RF system. They expect to begin broadcasting on channel 31 on June 13. From what I understand, they will need to turn off the channel 4 transmitter or the DTV tuners will get confused with the two TSIDs. Some tuners will actually require the removal of channel 56 (4) before the rescan in order to pick up the channel 56 (31) signal. This is going to be messy for WDKY for a little while, but after a few weeks, channel 4 will be a distant memory!

And it will get even more confusing when they decide to change their name to FOX Channel 31.

And it will get even more confusing when they decide to change their name to FOX Channel 31.

They won't.

- Trip

Hello, I'm confused on a couple things, maybe someone can clear this up. Will the HDHomerun tune Insight's SD channels (e.g. FX-55, Animal Planet-36, Comedy Central-60)? I'm assuming it's pure digital over the cable into the settop box; except are those the channels that are considered to be encrypted QAM?

Point is, the only HD channels I care about are network. So if a HDHomerun+MythTV box setup can get channels 14-99 in SD along with the network's HD feed via OTA, then I can dump the DVR completely. Doable?

Any input/corrections appreciated.

Hello, I'm confused on a couple things, maybe someone can clear this up. Will the HDHomerun tune Insight's SD channels (e.g. FX-55, Animal Planet-36, Comedy Central-60)? I'm assuming it's pure digital over the cable into the settop box; except are those the channels that are considered to be encrypted QAM?

Point is, the only HD channels I care about are network. So if a HDHomerun+MythTV box setup can get channels 14-99 in SD along with the network's HD feed via OTA, then I can dump the DVR completely. Doable?

Any input/corrections appreciated.

That has not been my experience with Insight cable. Right now, almost all of the channels except the HD locals are encrypted and thus unavailable to MythTV via the HD Homerun. The analog SD channels you mention can be accessed via an analog tuner, but the HD Homerun does not have that capability. I'm using an HD Homerun for the digital, and a PVR-250 for the SD analog channels on my myth setup.

That has not been my experience with Insight cable. Right now, almost all of the channels except the HD locals are encrypted and thus unavailable to MythTV via the HD Homerun. The analog SD channels you mention can be accessed via an analog tuner, but the HD Homerun does not have that capability. I'm using an HD Homerun for the digital, and a PVR-250 for the SD analog channels on my myth setup.

Thanks for the reply. Ok, so basically there's no hope for accessing *any* of the non-local channels digitally without the DVR or cable card. Argh.

Given that I'll need to also need to get an NTSC card, any complaints with the model you have? Any other recommendations that are Linux friendly?

Thanks for the reply. Ok, so basically there's no hope for accessing *any* of the non-local channels digitally without the DVR or cable card. Argh.

Given that I'll need to also need to get an NTSC card, any complaints with the model you have? Any other recommendations that are Linux friendly?

The PVR-250 I have isn't manufactured anymore... Analog-only cards are pretty much out by FCC mandate (DTV transition), but there are several cards have Linux support. Try the MythTV wiki for information; google "mythtv hauppauge 1600" for a quick link to what is probably the best choice.

You might also want to check out the Hauppauge HD PVR, which is a USB device that can capture component video (e.g. from the Insight box) and encode it as MPEG-4. Of course, it will require the Insight box as a tuner.

I just discovered today that firewire from the Insight HD box encrypts all of the channels that are QAM encrypted - so no ESPN HD etc through that method.

My problem isn't RF level related, as I get them all except Fox 56 on 4, which I didn't even try to improve because of the move. I have good signal levels and no amps, except WKYT suffers from random electrical interference at my location, as evidenced by comparing the times my TOTAL inability to watch 27.X (13), coincides exactly when analog WCPO and WKRC have VERY visible electrical noise present. Try chasing that down in an all digital world! I seem to remember that WKYT was originally assigned a UHF channel and requested 13 as a replacement after the initial assignments were released. As man made noise continues to increase, they may eventually wish they were back up there! UHF's here, so far, appear totally unaffected. Even KET 42's much lower receive signal level is totally reliable. KU likes to also feed many houses with the same step down transformer, so a quality power line filter is next to keep the neighbors mixer out on mashed potato night in the neighborhood! I guess my reliable CBS/DT feed goes away in June when WKRC steps back down to 12 from 31, but then Fox 56/31 will fill that void.

Non-RF issue: Is anybody but KET and WUPX consistently watching their sub's audio levels? (WLEX gets a pass here) They appear embarrassingly and sometimes totally uncontrolled and folks with converters DO NOT have the neat little volume smoothing option found on many of the newer digital sets.

Old Time Broadcaster located about 35 miles north of blue town.

WKYT-DT was originally assigned to channel 59. Had they not requested to move, they would have to move again. They couldn't have kept that channel regardless, and its performance will the hills in the area would have been abysmal.

- Trip

Thanks Trip. I couldn't remember back that far and that clearly explains why they made the initial jump, but I also know that staying put would have also been an option during the process.

It's getting that time of the year for the big spark gap transmitters of the sky to fire up and I'll be interested to see how that plays out along with VHF long distance signal propagation issues, when everyone gets them all cranked up and settled in.

My problem isn't RF level related, as I get them all except Fox 56 on 4, which I didn't even try to improve because of the move. I have good signal levels and no amps, except WKYT suffers from random electrical interference at my location, as evidenced by comparing the times my TOTAL inability to watch 27.X (13), coincides exactly when analog WCPO and WKRC have VERY visible electrical noise present. Try chasing that down in an all digital world!

At least one of my receivers (the TiVo) has experienced periodic "glitches" on 27.1 since they started the 720p on both 27.1 and 27.2 foolishness. When they switched back to 480i on 27.2, the trouble remained. Of course, there could be a software issue with the TiVo as well. In my case, it looks more like a encoder configuration issue. I haven't bothered to check with the other receiver since it usually tuned to a L'ville station when in use.

Nitewatchman That's the EXACT card giving me this trouble with only WDKY-DT. Win-HVR1600 (original one that came out just before Hauppauge put in QAM ability for that series). I updated the driver to the latest and no luck, so I'll roll it back to the 2007 one. I pushed down on the card a little and it didn't move. I will try taking the card out completely and reinsert. The question is why is this card sensitive to only FOX (the channel I want to see most for American Idol)? Hrrmmmff!

I fixed my problem with WDKY and the glitchiness when WKYT started doing the same thing. What was it, you ask? ... The VHF wireloop antenna in my attic fell over. THAT'S IT! So there I was thinking it must be driver updates\MCE screwing up & corrupt and it was the most basic thing.... the silly antenna falling off the cross beam in the attic! I dunno what knocked it down (ghosts?), but glad it is fixed. I have an issue managing the channel lineup in MCE (crashes Media Center when I try to go into that menu), but otherwise everything else works perfect.

Lesson learned - never overlook the most basic thing

EDIT: WDKY signal is 100% for me in Winchester on VHF-4. Wonder what UHF 31 is gonna be like.

the silly antenna falling off the cross beam in the attic! I dunno what knocked it down (ghosts?)


Maybe several species of small furry animals were grooving your ant a bit too vigorously .......

Maybe several species of small furry animals were grooving your ant a bit too vigorously .......

No signs of those guys. I have 3 cats. :) The antenna was just sort of balanced and got tipped.. probably from some hellacious wind awhile ago pushing on my entire house (probably when WDKY started messing up in MCE.. lol).

... and the Wind Cried Mary ..

See :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Several_Species_of_Small_Furry_Animals_Gathered_Together_in_ a_Cave_and_Grooving_with_a_Pict

Over the past couple of weeks, WDKY's OTA digital signal has gotten much worse. I live near the airport in Lexington and have two separate antennas feeding different tv's. Both have gotten worse leading me to conclude that it's not some change in my antenna alignment, etc. Anyone else having a similar experience?

A month and 3 days til they are finally off that horrible channel 4 VHF lo.

I have been receiving free HD channels via Time Warner Cable in the Lexington area over standard cable with my QAM tuner. The last few weeks have been torture. They keep changing the channels and even removing some channels. For example, ESPN HD went from 92.1 to 92.7 and now is just gone. WKYT, WLEX, WTVQ, WDKY all come in full HD now, but I've lost all others.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

I didn't realize TWC was anywhere in Lex. Thought you guys were all Insight. I noticed TBS-HD moved last week on TWC-Winchester, but I found it by manually typing in channel numbers on my qam-capable TV.

I'll try to take a look tonight and see is ESPN-HD is still tuning. I put all those free HD channels in a favorites list on the TV. I wish the TV allowed me to name them.

It's actually in Lancaster, just south of Lexington. The reason I notice all the changes is I have set up my favorites list with the HD channels and when I go to one, it will just say "No Picture." So I scan the channels again, and it has moved.

I scanned last night and first thing this morning and still don't have the following channels I did have:

ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
HD Theater
TBS HD
TNT HD
A&E HD
FX HD

A coworker of mine here in Wilmore has basic TWC and had been receiving the HD channels even though they are not listed as part of his package. Within the past few days, they all disappeared. So I am assuming that TWC has "fixed" the issue that was letting these HD channels come through.

I too have been getting the HD stations in Wilmore on Time Warner (until yesterday). My understanding is that with TW you should receive for "free" any HD channel that TW offers in which your package contains the SD version. So, if you have standard cable you should receive ESPN, ESPN2, TBS, TNT, FX all in HD. That was the case until just lately.

Anyone know what is going on? I'd really like my HD back!

Ditto.. All non-local SD and HD channels that are QAM digital are now encrypted on TWC! :( The only exception are the music 'channels'. Those are still open. The analog non-local channels are still good also, but probably a matter of time before those are completely cut out completely. Seems like they are doing what other cable cos in the country are doing... requiring you to have their digital box in order to be able to watch their services. My Series-1 TiVo's days are numbered now since there will be no OTA signals for it either (since the TiVo lacks a digital tuner).

Somehow my TWC account includes TV services bundled with broadband Internet. I didn't even know it because Adelphia started me off paperless billing right off the bat 3 and a half years ago and I signed-up for broadband Internet only. It wasn't til a couple years later I plugged a TV into the coax and noticed "hey, I am getting TV signal too". The old online bill page didn't show what services I had, so I was just paying the exorbitant broadband service fee monthly online. When TWC changed their billing site recently I saw TV service was bundled in. I'm afraid to ask about a digital tuner box for QAM decryption cause maybe it is a mistake I even have TV service? I dunno.. my TWC bill is $48.99/month. How much are you guys paying? I didn't really use TWC's digital QAM channels anyway, except recently I bought a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR 950Q QAM-capable tuner to play around with on the laptop, but now I won't be able to use it for QAM (which was the reason I bought it to mess with that.. TWC and Murphy's Law work together).

Exactly what they're doing BenC. Here is TWC's Free HD (http://www.timewarnercable.com/CentralKY/learn/cable/hdtv.html) page.

In the fine print: Disclaimer: To receive all services, Digital Cable, remote and lease of an HD or HD DVR set-top box required.

Hooray for FREE HD - when you pay for a cable box.

Hey guys. I've been reading the forums and this thread for a long time (and I love it) but this is my first post, and it comes in the form of a question:
Anyone have any ideas as to when TWC will join the rest of the TV world and offer us a reasonable amount of HD content? Friends in Lexington have Insight and get around 50 HD stations. In Bowling Green, even more. Satellite obviously offers over 100. Why is it that in Richmond, we are forced to stick with so few? I like HD Theater, but would much rather have the actual Discovery Channel and some of the other related networks. Large markets with TWC, like NYC, Dallas, etc... do get a plethora of HD stations. If the company has those contracts in place there, why is it they aren't available nationally? I am unable to get satellite at this time, but see no reason to be so snubbed by TWC in a market like Richmond. Any thoughts?

MorriMW@ it is also Winchester and Lancaster cursed with Time Warner as our cable provider and their lack of motivation to offer more HD and equivalent broadband Internet speeds to Insight. Like suckers we pay for their service and they are in no way obligated to provide better because they know we can't get better (unless we go satellite or pay through the nose for a business class DSL package). I got an 'offer' in the mail from TWC yesterday to lock in for 18 months basic cable + basic broadband Internet for $89.99! Are they kidding? I pay $48.99 for that right now (minus the cable box, which evidently is needed now to tune cable network HD channels.. as few as they are anyway). Are they desperate?

Interestingly my old Fusion5Lite HD tuner card in one of my PCs is still able to tune ESPN2 in HD, but just that channel for cable-HD with QAM. Strange

Here's a "what if?" Years ago, I worked for a company called Hi-Net, which was part of Comsat, eventually Comsat Video Enterprises. Anyway, we provided in room satellite entertainment for hotels. We offered ESPN, CNN(HN), TBS and Showtime along with the locals. I can live without a movie channel thanks to Netflix, and I can live without ESPN. I would like a weather channel. So WHAT IF the locals could add something like a TBS and a Showtime (or something more like Encore) on a .2 along with a national news channel. The weather channels already exist. The local channels would need to "get together" to agree on who provides what, how many .2 weather channels do we need anyway, and create a fairly broad spectrum of free OTA channels. Follow up with a campaign to entice people to drop cable or satellite to enjoy the free OTA programming (how hard could that be?). The benefit is less competition for eyeballs, and the viewers can save a few dollars a month in a difficult economic climate. I pitched this idea to a regional manager of a television group, we'll see where it goes from there.

Here's a "what if?" {snips} I pitched this idea to a regional manager of a television group, we'll see where it goes from there.

{groans} And where does HDTV fall into the mix? ...

{groans} And where does HDTV fall into the mix? ...

There's space for a second channel on the 720P stations without compressing the HD. I'm not saying we do away with HD, just that we have better coordination of the secondary services. If you want 100 HD channels, they are available if you want to pay, I don't see any issue with having a mix of HD and SD for free OTA. I'm not asking for anything drastic, I would just hate to see 4 sub channels of the same content. Where does HDTV fall into the mix? Is there a future in broadcasting anything? maybe not. What is Einstein's definition of insanity?

There's space for a second channel on the 720P stations without compressing the HD. Are you happy with the signal on 27.1 & 27.2... that's exactly what KYT is doing right now... changing CBS to 720P and adding the CW on .2

I would just hate to see 4 sub channels of the same content. Where does HDTV fall into the mix?There's more than 7 subchannels (I think a total of 12-15 channels?) in Lexington right now... are you seeing the same content on any of them?

Are you happy with the signal on 27.1 & 27.2... that's exactly what KYT is doing right now... changing CBS to 720P and adding the CW on .2


Still don't 'get' why they changed CW to standard def and barely sapped any bandwidth from that sub to give to the primary CBS channel. They should have just left both 27.1 and 27.2 720P and just tweaked bitrates instead of taking away the only HD source of CW east of Cambellsville in Central KY.It's not even available on satellite in HD locally yet (to my knowledge).

Is there a future in broadcasting anything? maybe not. What is Einstein's definition of insanity?

Too tired to care anymore. Let them eat cake and let the crumbs fall where they may.

On the other hand, I see WDKY seems confident enough on the June 13th date for moving to ch31, that they are now running crawls announcing the move.

56 has been running a crawl the last several nights about their switch on June 13 so it looks like it will happen for sure.

There's more than 7 subchannels (I think a total of 12-15 channels?) in Lexington right now... are you seeing the same content on any of them?

Yes and no, WKYT and WTVQ both have weather sub channels. WDKY has space to add a channel, they could add the old movies. We only need one weather channel, 36 has that covered. 18 could do a 24/7 local-national news channel with a couple Mb of data (please don't add a third weather channel), the CW and My Network subchannels should move to new transmitters. Channel 46 is available. Now there's all kinds of leftover space for M/H along with having My Network and the CW in HD. There's the "what about HD?", you will have more, not less. It's easy to sit around and talk about the idea, it's hard to find someone willing to spend money in this economy. 25% of TV ad revenue comes from the auto industry. I would love to see more Discovery type programming available OTA, KET helps with this sometimes, but a channel dedicated to "blow me away" HD footage like you see on HD Theater and I'd cut the cable cord. It's just an idea, If anyone has a better idea that benefits folks trying to make ends meet, I'm game.

Be nice IF 27 and 36 would shut their Weather down all together it is LACKING BIG TIME. NO Lexington based Radar. 18 should turn theirs back on. It is LIVE and Lexington BASED. Others MIGHT CLAIM TO BE LIVE but not Lexington Based. Have to rely on Jackson Weather Office, Louisville or other Major Cities. Back a Month or so ago 27 CBS was showing a FOX Radar based SW of Louisville. That shows that they were relying on other Folks Weather Radar to supply Lexington. At least 18 is Live, Local in Lexington and Accurate. 36 shows Loops that are sometimes 18 or more Hours to almost 1 1/2 days old.18 would be a Better candidate for weather coverage. Would like to see RTN or whatever it is called to show up. THIS TV on Ch19 out of CINCY is no good. So please do not put it on Fox's 56 Sub Channel if they activate one.

If WDKY was to get a subchannel, I wish 'The Tube' channel was still alive again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tube_Music_Network
Watching constant, old music videos was fun

For those of you keeping score at home, DirecTV is actively working on HD LiL setups. No word on completion date.

For those of you keeping score at home, DirecTV is actively working on HD LiL setups. No word on completion date.

Thanks. First positive info seen on this in many, many weeks! Hopefully, they'll now move faster than the feds have in addressing the nerve gas neutralization at BG Army Depot.

For those of you keeping score at home, DirecTV is actively working on HD LiL setups. No word on completion date.

Long over due. So where did you get your info. (forgive me for being a skeptic) And if you have some inside info, they should have an idea when its going to be turned on. Lexington is the largest DMA in the United States not to have HD locals. Go here for proof!

http://members.cox.net/oknewshawk/DTV_LIL_DMA.html

Lexington #63 largest DMA in US, all 62 larger DMAs have HD locals, as well as vast majority of the DMAs from 60 to 120!

Will CWKYT be carried in HD also on DirecTV?

Long over due. So where did you get your info. (forgive me for being a skeptic) And if you have some inside info, they should have an idea when its going to be turned on.From seeing the crews working at the receive site. I have no idea when everything will be turned on.

Will CWKYT be carried in HD also on DirecTV?There is equipment for CW, but I don't know if it will be in HD. Is the CW sent in HD OTA? If not, the answer is no.

WBKI is a CW sent in HD and can be received at the receive site. Hopefully they will use that one instead of CWKYT.

WBKI is a CW sent in HD and can be received at the receive site. Hopefully they will use that one instead of CWKYT.
If I was 'KYT, I'd fight that. I'm pretty sure Direct is/will use CWKYT.

You have 2 grade A signal choices, I would hope they would go for the HD one over the SD subchannel. Either way I will still be able to get CW in HD OTA, so I'm not too worried.

You have 2 grade A signal choices, I would hope they would go for the HD one over the SD subchannel. Either way I will still be able to get CW in HD OTA, so I'm not too worried.
But I don't think 'BKI' is considered 'local' to Lexington.

But I don't think 'BKI' is considered 'local' to Lexington.

And for those of us living on the US127 corridor, this is probably the most infuriating "consideration" wrt Nielson/NAB artificial boundaries vs DBS service.

... and why I'd just as soon have my $5.99 to $7.99 back and do without LiL "service."

... and why I'd just as soon have my $5.99 to $7.99 back and do without LiL "service."Just curious... is there a technical reason you CAN'T do without LiL? I have Dish, but I get all the Lexington stations OTA.

A whole semi truck load of equipment showed up at the WDKY transmitter Sunday morning

Just curious... is there a technical reason you CAN'T do without LiL?

It's not an option with DirecTV anymore. You'll take 'm and you'll be happy about it. :rolleyes: One of Rupert's "gifts."

A whole semi truck load of equipment showed up at the WDKY transmitter Sunday morning

Sounds like a busy week and a half. ;)

I'm moving with in Lexington and am really contemplating Dish Network's Turbo HD....Good Idea?

I have Insight now, and would probably keep them for internet...or do people suggest Windstream?


I've searched this forum and haven't seen a definitive post...can you receive the local channels in HD through Dish network?:confused:

Thanks

Yes you can get the local channels in HD through Dish network. DirecTV is doing their buildout.

I use ATT for my internet, but I would compare pricing between Insight & Windstream (especially if Windstream is doing your home phone... you might be able to "bundle" and save some $$).

I'm moving with in Lexington and am really contemplating Dish Network's Turbo HD....Good Idea?

I have Insight now, and would probably keep them for internet...or do people suggest Windstream?


I've searched this forum and haven't seen a definitive post...can you receive the local channels in HD through Dish network?:confused:

Thanks

You can get HD locals from Dish, but only if you have the newer "Eastern Arc" dish setup. If this is a new install, I'm pretty sure that's what you'll get.

I've been happy with Insight internet, but as the other poster mentions you might save some money if you bundle Windstream. (Windstream will also sell you Dish, so that might work well.)

You can get HD locals from Dish, but only if you have the newer "Eastern Arc" dish setup. If this is a new install, I'm pretty sure that's what you'll get.

Actually, you don't HAVE to have the Eastern Arc setup. If you don't however, you'll need to have 2 dishes. One (looking at 77(?) degrees) gets the LEX locals. The other (looking at 110, 119, 129) gets "everything else".

Thanks everyone for your quick responses!

So now I beg the question is Dish Network any good? Do people enjoy their service?

I'm moving with in Lexington and am really contemplating Dish Network's Turbo HD....Good Idea?

I have Insight now, and would probably keep them for internet...or do people suggest Windstream?


Thanks

We use Directv so can't help you with Dish questions.

Regarding Insight vs Windstream for internet, until about a year ago, we had used Windsteam DSL for about three years. The speed was 1.5 megabits, pretty slow by today's standards. We had them raise speed to 6.0 megabits, then the fastest they offered. We then had nothing but trouble. After several service calls, etc., it was determined that we were "located too far" from their closest transmission point and the fastest reliable speed we could get was the 1.5. They said there was too much "line noise" at higher speeds and connection would keep dropping. I should mention that we live near the airport in a major subdivision so its not like we live way out in the country. We switched to Insight and use their 10.0 megabit service. It has worked flawlessly so far. Perhaps Windstream has added more transmission points, etc. since our challenge but I'd definitely suggest you make sure whatever speed they offer will work at your location. When we switched to Insight for internet, we also switched to them for phone and have had no real issues with it either.

Good luck!

Hey guys. I've been reading the forums and this thread for a long time (and I love it) but this is my first post, and it comes in the form of a question:
Anyone have any ideas as to when TWC will join the rest of the TV world and offer us a reasonable amount of HD content? Friends in Lexington have Insight and get around 50 HD stations. In Bowling Green, even more. Satellite obviously offers over 100. Why is it that in Richmond, we are forced to stick with so few? I like HD Theater, but would much rather have the actual Discovery Channel and some of the other related networks. Large markets with TWC, like NYC, Dallas, etc... do get a plethora of HD stations. If the company has those contracts in place there, why is it they aren't available nationally? I am unable to get satellite at this time, but see no reason to be so snubbed by TWC in a market like Richmond. Any thoughts?


One of their main problems here is the available bandwidth that is available.. They receive everything (for the most part - except some locals) in Richmond and then fiber transport it around a gigantic fiber ring from Richmond to Lancaster, Nicville, ... around to Ironton, OH, back through Winchester to Richmond.. Some of the cable plants they are feeding are only 750MHz. That gives them up to ch 116. Most of the plants are 870MHz (ch 137), but since they feed them all from the same headend, they are limited to 116 channels. What could they do with 20 more channels?? Well - that's about 60 HD channels..
They are working (I think) on a switched solution that will give them more empty slots for HD.


We use Directv so can't help you with Dish questions.

Regarding Insight vs Windstream for internet, until about a year ago, we had used Windsteam DSL for about three years. The speed was 1.5 megabits, pretty slow by today's standards. We had them raise speed to 6.0 megabits, then the fastest they offered. We then had nothing but trouble. After several service calls, etc., it was determined that we were "located too far" from their closest transmission point and the fastest reliable speed we could get was the 1.5. They said there was too much "line noise" at higher speeds and connection would keep dropping. I should mention that we live near the airport in a major subdivision so its not like we live way out in the country. We switched to Insight and use their 10.0 megabit service. It has worked flawlessly so far. Perhaps Windstream has added more transmission points, etc. since our challenge but I'd definitely suggest you make sure whatever speed they offer will work at your location. When we switched to Insight for internet, we also switched to them for phone and have had no real issues with it either.

Good luck!

DSL stinks if you can't get close enough to one of their DLSAM's (or whatever they call them now). They use high frequency carriers that piggy back on top of the dial tone (that's one reason you have to 'filter' all your phones), and the higher the frequency, the shorter it travels though a piece of copper. The higher speeds just add another higher frequency carrier for more data at once - but higher frequency means shorter distance...
Also, all that RF going on at the airport probably wouldn't bode well for DSL -- a flourescent light will cause data errors and even make the modem go offline....

The cable probably would be faster (although the bandwidth is shared on each node), especially in Lexington with Insight - they have very fast service and we've had good service from them... But if the price is right and you can get it to work, DSL works great when it works!

Thanks everyone for your quick responses!

So now I beg the question is Dish Network any good? Do people enjoy their service?

A) There's a dish network thread on AVS I'm pretty sure.
B) I've had Dish Network for 10 years now and have been pretty happy. I personally like Dish's guide interface better than Direct (my FIL has Direct). I'd love to have access to NFL Sunday ticket, but I wouldn't have time to watch it anyway.
C) You can also checkout satelliteguys.us for more information on both Dish & Direct.
D) You can feed an OTA antenna into a Dish HD DVR and record OTA (with moderate success). My understanding (from this thread?) is Direct requires you to subscribe to their LiL service. Fair warning... you don't get guide data on the locals from Dish unless you subscribe to their LiL.

found this at the fcc site:

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report_0609/Lexington_KY.pdf

WDKY is on schedule to turn on channel 31 June 13 just after 12:00am. The analog channel will be turned off at noon on the 12th to provide time to tune the second tube. If all goes well, channel 31 will be at full power when it comes online. Channel 4 will be turned off just before channel 31 comes online. Media Center users will not be able to do a simple rescan, WDKY will post the procedure and I'll copy it here.

WDKY is on schedule to turn on channel 31 June 13 just after 12:00am. The analog channel will be turned off at noon on the 12th to provide time to tune the second tube. If all goes well, channel 31 will be at full power when it comes online. Channel 4 will be turned off just before channel 31 comes online. Media Center users will not be able to do a simple rescan, WDKY will post the procedure and I'll copy it here.
When is the antenna being changed? Is it a swap or just moving transmission line?

They may not have to change the antenna if it was tuned for midband from the start. If the antenna were 30 channels wide and 56 was at the top end, then it would work on 31 although I would think the gain would be off...

The elliptical pattern may be another matter or one they will address later...

William

Thanks William. I had been told antennas are channel specific. I didn't realize they worked in a "band".

Dielectric makes a 30 channel unit. You could also use a panel type antenna but the gain is very low compared to a channel specific unit.

... Channel 4 will be turned off just before channel 31 comes online. Media Center users will not be able to do a simple rescan, WDKY will post the procedure and I'll copy it here.

I have a sinking feeling that my D* powered TiVo is going to take a while to catch up. Although, hopefully it will still work in "Regular Schedule" mode.

has anybody notice the drop in signal from channel 27 mine has went very low the last few days but all my other channels are ok.

They may not have to change the antenna if it was tuned for midband from the start. If the antenna were 30 channels wide and 56 was at the top end, then it would work on 31 although I would think the gain would be off...

The elliptical pattern may be another matter or one they will address later...

William

WDKY will replace the directional UHF antenna at a later date. They will come up at full power (1000kW) on June 13 with the current directional antenna. Digital coverage is expected to exceed analog coverage, even with the directional pattern. If you look at the FCC link I posted earlier, and expand the analog pattern so that the peak meets the omni pattern, that's close to what WDKY can expect come Saturday morning. For example, it looks like Maysville and Morehead will be outside the channel 31 contour, Somerset will be right on the edge. The simple way to figure out where everyone falls is to print the map, measure the shortest distance from the directional pattern to the omni pattern (right about where the blue "KY-2" is located) and add that distance to any part of the directional pattern you are interested in.

WDKY will replace the directional UHF antenna at a later date. They will come up at full power (1000kW) on June 13 with the current directional antenna.

Let's hope they can find a few lightning free hours to get all this done .... ugh ... this is getting ridiculous. What happens if the weather refuses to cooperate?

[QUOTE=HDTVChallenged;16629714]Let's hope they can find a few lightning free hours to get all this done .... ugh ... this is getting ridiculous. What happens if the weather refuses to cooperate?[/QUOTE

Weather shouldn't be a problem. Half the UHF transmitter has been converted to digital on channel 31 and is currently running into a dummy load. The other half (which is still analog) will be shut down at noon, and there's 12 hours to connect the new RF system into the transmission line, it should take about 15 minutes. There's 12 hours to convert the second half of the transmitter to digital. That's the beauty of two tubes :) At midnight, all that needs done is to run the UHF transmitter at beam for a few seconds while the waveguide switch is switched from load to antenna, shut down the VHF transmitter, and hit the transmit button. If it takes 13 hours to convert the second tube, WDKY runs at half power for an hour, no big deal there.

The other half (which is still analog) will be shut down at noon, and there's 12 hours to connect the new RF system into the transmission line, it should take about 15 minutes. There's 12 hours to convert the second half of the transmitter to digital. That's the beauty of two tubes :) At midnight, all that needs done is to run the UHF transmitter at beam for a few seconds while the waveguide switch is switched from load to antenna, shut down the VHF transmitter, and hit the transmit button. If it takes 13 hours to convert the second tube, WDKY runs at half power for an hour, no big deal there.

Ok, so we should expect to see the actual switch from ch4 to ch31 around midnight and from noon to midnight analog is dead and it's ch4 only?

... makes your head spin ... ;) :D

And when are you retuning the antenna for 31?

William

And when are you retuning the antenna for 31?

William

The antenna was tuned for 31 on Tuesday, if anyone noticed an outage (analog and digital) on Tuesday evening, that's why.

Well, In case you are interested I am still seeing WDKY 56 (analog) about as usual up here via tropo scatter (popping up in and out above the noise ("snow") as usual .... .... Well, actually at the moment tropo enhancement is such that it's pretty much staying above the noise (just barely) ....

I need a little more enhancement to see WLEX through(Well until sometime tomorrow) Co-channel WBDT Dayton, which is only 12 miles off the side/back of antenna .....

Update: I really wasn't thinking at this late(or early) hour ... So, I would assume the antenna tuning for the Ch 31 Transmitter is something that was done in (or near) the shack/on the ground ?

At this time (5:09AM), you have a little less than two hours left of WLEX analog (shutdown scheduled for ~7AM), and a little less than 7 hours (~12N) for 'DKY.

WDKY sent a climber to tune the antenna, that's why they had to turn off channel 4 for about 45 minutes. The story goes that the antenna tuning dude was scheduled for about 1:30pm, his plane arrived at 3:40 pm, He called WDKY to let them know he could see the tower so the engineers shut down channel 56 at 5pm. Dude was at the old site at about 5pm, and he arrived at Clay's Ferry at 6pm. Digital was off from about 6:30-7:15 (tower climbers don't like getting cooked), analog was off from 5pm to 9:10pm. Tower crew was on site from 12N until 7:30pm Tuesday.

The antenna was checked for safe operation at 56 (low power) after it was tuned for 31, so that part of the project is done.

Thanks for the info, I was surprised I was still seeing the analog on 56 "seemingly" about as normal after antenna retuning, as I thought lower power and VSWR issues might be involved ...

Have missed WLEX 18 since co-channel(Until Noon today when they move to 26) WBDT-DT signed on back in 2003, and of course, except for occasionally something that didn't look so great through WBDT's digital "snow" ....

WKOI's Blow torch co-channel signal 13 miles to my WSW means I don't have any shot at WLEX digital unless WKOI's off air ... I *did* log WLEX digital once though, on 7/19/2005 -- either because WKOI digital was off air, or perhaps it shortly before WKOI went to their fully licensed facility, back when WKOI was running STA/lower antenna height (low power, very directional antenna pattern signifcant terrain shielding with their STA was involved) ... I Do recall the NBC HD during either Leno or Conan looked VERY good from WLEX ....

Thanks for the info, I was surprised I was still seeing the analog on 56 "seemingly" about as normal after antenna retuning, as I thought lower power and VSWR issues might be involved ...


Low power equals about 15%, I'm guessing you are not using a UHF loop antenna on the back of your DTV to pick up WDKY in Ohio :)

Do we need to re-align our antenna to pickup the new UHF feed, or is it pointed in pretty much the same direction?

So what am I going to do with my VHF wireloop antenna after WDKY switches to UHF 31 at midnight tonight? What is VHF channel 7? I am getting a blip for that (11% signal, not enough for a lock though).

What sucks for me is that my Windows Media Center PC install is corrupted and I cannot go into the part of the software where I rescan for channels because MCE crashes. (lovely). Guess I will be reinstalling Windows MCE tonight. Uggg I might have a ghost image though.. which will save me some time.

What is VHF channel 7? I am getting a blip for that (11% signal, not enough for a lock though).
WLJC out of Beattyville.

I'm guessing you are not using a UHF loop antenna on the back of your DTV to pick up WDKY in Ohio :)

No, but that would probably work to some degree for the Signals from the South and SW which are BLASTING into this area via Sporadic E on lo-VHF right now ... BenCJedi's VHf antenna would be even better .....

If it keeps up I don't think my timer/recording for WAVE 3's analog shut off is going to work out very well ....

What will be really cool is if this opening keeps up long enough to "watch" some of the jumble of analogs that are currently coming in via Es go off air at some point today ... and also after blow torch local WDTN Dayton goes down ....

Any kind of analog farewell from the stations broadcasting as they flip off the analog signal? I mean anyone throwing a party or anything at the stations? lol

Any kind of analog farewell from the stations broadcasting as they flip off the analog signal? I mean anyone throwing a party or anything at the stations? lol
18 did a series of live shots during the morning show and the show ended with the 'off' switch being hit & a special graphic for analog goodnight.

Engineers are also answering the phones.

I doubt TVQ is throwing parties today, they signed off in Feb, plus I heard they had some layoffs in the last week. Don't know about 'DKY. Their party I guess would be when ch.31 goes online full power.

Any kind of analog farewell from the stations broadcasting as they flip off the analog signal? I mean anyone throwing a party or anything at the stations? lol

I know these are not in the Lexington market but WBIR in Knoxville changed over at 12:37 this morning and they had a short message thanking everyone for watching and advising that they would be off the air for a while. (They are moving their digital signal to their old analog channel.)

WJHL in Johnson City is having their first Owner/General Manager (whose initials are JHL, hence the call letters) who flipped the switch to turn on the station in 1953 flip the switch to turn it off today at 12:30. That one is kind of neat. :)

Do you think that no affiliate in our area is changing their branding to their digital channel number because all their paper letterhead and studio sets and everything else with their logo on it is too expensive to replace?

I mean

FOX56 should be FOX31
ABC36 should be ABC40
WKYT-27 should be WKYT-13
WLEX18 should be WLEX39

Yeah, there is virtual channel mapping that makes receivers and TV sets show the original broadcast channel numbers, but it feels like a sham to me knowing their branding actually represents another true broadcast channel frequency. I wonder if the almighty dollar is behind no station re-branding themselves. lol

WJHL in Johnson City is having their first Owner/General Manager (whose initials are JHL, hence the call letters) who flipped the switch to turn on the station in 1953 flip the switch to turn it off today at 12:30. That one is kind of neat. :)

That is cool

Ben-

You're thinking WAY too much!:cool:

Notes from the front:

1) The good news is that it looks like Tribune has already switched the channel mapping info to Ch31.

2) The bad news is this may make life "interesting" for the next 12(ish) hours or so.

3) I would expect that any AM21 users are out of luck until midnight. Other boxes may work for a while if you manually tune to 4-1, but then quit when the DirecTV guide data refreshes (annoyingly often.)

4) Don't panic ... it should sort itself out when Ch31 comes up.

What is VHF channel 7? I am getting a blip for that (11% signal, not enough for a lock though).

That's probably either WYMT or WLJC DT ... I forget which at the moment.

WYMT is 12, WLJC is 7.

- Trip

Ben-

You're thinking WAY too much!:cool:

I know. lol :)

Not much manual tuning going on these days since the 'scan' technological wonder was created in modern electronic devices. lol

WDKY-analog is OFF
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_J12S4xTAjFM/SjKT307nFvI/AAAAAAAAUhQ/xZeiuqJNlfg/s512/WDKY-Analog.OFF.061209.JPG

WDKY is working on channel 31 as I type. It's just a matter of flipping the switch at midnight! :) :)

Do we need to re-align our antenna to pickup the new UHF feed, or is it pointed in pretty much the same direction?

same direction, just a few meters higher

WDKY is working on channel 31 as I type. It's just a matter of flipping the switch at midnight! :) :)

As an FYI, WKRC in Cincinnati has been running their digital on RF 12 for more than half a day now with flying colors. So please take care of RF 31, OK? It's been good to us. :)

no parties at WDKY tonight (I guess this morning). Marvin Bartlett was answering viewer calls and providing DTV information after the news. WDKY employees will spend this weekend tending to phone calls, the party will have to wait.

"Flipping the switch" at WDKY required a reboot of an uncooperative Linux box. So it was 12:05 or so before channel 31 came on line.

Occasionally decoding Video from WDKY on 31 over the past hour, but no more than a few seconds at a time .... First time I decoded it was about 1:10AM EDT ...

"Flipping the switch" at WDKY required a reboot of an uncooperative Linux box. So it was 12:05 or so before channel 31 came on line.

Yep ... that was a long five minutes of wondering. But now, the nightmare is over, good riddance to VHF-lo. :)

As expected, absolutely nothing from WDKY is decoding here in Manchester.

Time for a new antenna setup.

I live in Lexington in Beaumont area and have a medium size UHF antenna on my deck. I can always get WTVQ and WLEX at close to 100%, but of course never could get WDKY. I did a rescan of my channels this AM (DIRECTV HR20-700)

singals:

WLEX 100
WTVQ 100
WDKY 97
This has been 0 for me last couple years since I moved into this house.

Finally I can pick up the Lexington FOX station in HD (without that need for putting a UHF /VFH antenna on the roof / rotor) which is what I did on my previous house!

Digital transition + 1 day: Hail the digital age! We welcome you at last! May our old analogue CRT TV's rest in piece in some landfill! May the local stations have the currage to brand their new frequencies some day. (FOX 56 is a really FOX 31) WLEX 39, WTVQ 40, etc.

For those of you VHF'er that turned off fox 56 during every thunderstorm (or everytime your wife turned on the hair dryer) fear not! Those days of electrical interference are over!

I live close to hdinlexky2, and I'm now receiving Fox in HD for the first time. Hooray!

As expected, absolutely nothing from WDKY is decoding here in Manchester.

Time for a new antenna setup.

I must confess, that I'm torn between skewering and offering help and comfort today for your efforts to derail the change. :)

That being said, remember that WDKY is still using the old directional ch56 antenna so you may not be getting the full potential ERP yet.

For the record: Today, I'm no longer decoding WHAS-DT ... but then again, I don't have a VHF antenna pointed that way. OTOH, I no longer have to rely on WDRB-DT for FOX in the COL for WDKY. :)

As expected, absolutely nothing from WDKY is decoding here in Manchester.

Time for a new antenna setup.

what does tvfool.com say about your chances?

Oh what a mess! I spent all night completely reformatting and reinstalling Windows XP MCE 2005\everything on my Media Center PC. The channel setup part of the application crashed on me and I had no choice, but then other difficulties ensued...

Microsoft uses Zap2it.com for the guide info which is used for channel designation in Media Center, but bewildering to me, the Tribune folks that host zap2it thought WLEX was going to be RF channel 22, WKYT to be channel 57 and WDKY unchanged from 4! When I setup the latest MCE a year and some ago WLEX and WKYT certainly were given the correct RF channel numbers in the setup. Just bizarre to me that Tribune assigned those channel numbers to those 2 affiliates that were not changing broadcast frequencies. Took me awhile to figure out why the signal page wasn't showing anything for those 3 (well those 2, I expected WDKY to be wrong anyway). Anyhow I'll spare you the details, but MCE needs its channel configuration manually edited in an XML file on the PC as well as some setup done in MCE. Between those 2 it can be worked out, but the guide listings will have to be mapped to a cable provider.. whether you use one of not with your tuner card, so you can map programming information to the WLEX, WKYT and WDKY (CWKYT won't map at all, even though Time Warner has channel guide info for them.. which is also weird). Your average person that isn't 'opening the hood' on a PC is likely very confused and pissed off right now. Tribune better fix their guide quickly!

At least MCE isn't crashing in any menu now!

One other oddity I noticed on my other TV tuner cards.. WLEX signal went from a usual 92% to only 32% to 40% on average. It's good enough for a lock, but why would WLEX's signal weaken? I did not make any antenna changes and WLEX has consistently always been about 92% strong for my location.

Wish my Vizio had a signal strength meter.

Since the switch I went from 17 channels to 19 now ! The two additions are WMKY and it's sub channel ( which is WKYT's feed ) ...but WLEX still like to freeze up and sputter 70% of the time ...seems even worse since the Switch.

guess im the only one not getting a good signal from 27 or 56 i used to get 56fairly good here in northern franklin county now i get almost no signal and i used to get 27 very good and now hardly no signal. all my other channels are ok also ket 46 was real solid for years now it has a lower signal after the switch last night.

As expected, absolutely nothing from WDKY is decoding here in Manchester.

Time for a new antenna setup.

I know you want to receive WDKY, but FWIW, if your current DNS waiver via D* isn't "grandfathered" for the digital(given you are now inside their predicted service contour) I believe you would be eligable for DNS waiver. As from what I recall, I believe your current antenna setup meets or exceeds FCC planning factors for DTV reception ...

Also, I know the proceeding is closed and it can't/won't happen -- But I think it would be quite fitting if it could be entered into the record in that channel change proceeding anyway that (as I expected would occur as well) you can't receive them now on UHF 31. Likely due to terrain obstruction due to irregular terrain not taken into account by the contour methodology used to predict the service contour which was used by both FCC and WDKY to, as I read it, effectively, easily dismiss your comments because you are located within the predicted service contour (shew that was a long sentence, sorry) ......

Of course, a technical showing on your part at the time would probably have been a good idea, and I must say, it might have been interesting to see how they would have responded to say, a longely-rice study that I suspect likely would have indicated you would not be able to decode them ...



... for your efforts to derail the change.


Funny, but, I didn't see it that way at all --- as some sort of organized "effort" to derail anything ... Instead, I believe he was simply doing his part to contribute to the process involved, and I believe kycubsfan has previously said that(more or less) was his intention .....


what does tvfool.com say about your chances?


I'd like to see what his TVfool plot says now as well, hopefully kycubsfan will post the current post-transition plot from TVfool for his location .... I just checked it and noticed the WDKY channel 31 info is present in TVfool database, although It's probably for the CP and not for the STA with the current antenna pattern ..

Given the terrain obstructions involved for him (see the elevation plots I posted HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15314188#post15314188 ), while those don't take curvature of Earth into account, I think they give a pretty good rough idea of what he is dealing with) and that WKLE didn't even show up on his TVfool plots -- even for a receive antenna height of 100FT(which at the time only had the channel 4 info for WDKY) he posted back in December ( HERE ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15295336&highlight=tvfool) ), I would guess the chances probably do not look very good ...

guess im the only one not getting a good signal from 27 or 56 i used to get 56fairly good here in northern franklin county now i get almost no signal and i used to get 27 very good and now hardly no signal. all my other channels are ok also ket 46 was real solid for years now it has a lower signal after the switch last night.

Interesting. My SQ's have been steady or several clicks stronger recently. I suspect there could be some odd atmospheric conditions a/o coax connector issues at your location.

Funny, but, I didn't see it that way at all --- as some sort of organized "effort" to derail anything ... Instead, I believe he was simply doing his part to contribute to the process involved, and I believe kycubsfan has previously said that(more or less) was his intention .....

Well, I was kidding (to a degree.) ... And, I know you liked being able to DX Ch4 on a regular basis. ;) But understand this:

1) From the day Ch4 signed on the air, through the move to the new site and the power "up," (which actually turned out to be a net loss here) it had been a major headache to use in the Community of License (not to mention elsewhere in the more populous part of the intended coverage area.) In fact, it was so bad that I actually preferred to use WDRB-DT which is 76 miles away.

2) Manchester was never inside the predicted Grade-b contour of Analog 56 or any other Lexington station, for that matter.

3) The move to Ch31 was an instant and profound improvement for the intended area of coverage.

So yeah ... for once in my long series of miserable experiences with local TV, something actually looked like it might go right ... enter CubsFan with whatever he was trying to do ... Ok, so maybe I'm a wee bit sensitive about it. ;) :D

OTOH, If CubsFan want to lobby for translators, I'm there .... OTOOH, is a basic Dish-HD + Locals sub really that prohibitive???

rescan took care of 56 but 27 is still showing a much lower signal than it used to and also KET 46 is showing alot lower than it used to.
all other channels are fine good signal quality around 75 to 80 with no amp on antenna.

OTOOH, is a basic Dish-HD + Locals sub really that prohibitive???

I would think a 100' tower would be cost prohibitive, at what point does the FCC-FAA require a tower to be registered and lit?

Wish my Vizio had a signal strength meter.

Since the switch I went from 17 channels to 19 now ! The two additions are WMKY and it's sub channel ( which is WKYT's feed ) ...but WLEX still like to freeze up and sputter 70% of the time ...seems even worse since the Switch.

What physical channel is WMKY on?

WYMT is 57-1 (physical channel 12).

- Trip

I would think a 100' tower would be cost prohibitive, at what point does the FCC-FAA require a tower to be registered and lit?

LOL ... not my point and you know it. ;)

rescan took care of 56 but 27 is still showing a much lower signal than it used to and also KET 46 is showing alot lower than it used to.
all other channels are fine good signal quality around 75 to 80 with no amp on antenna.

Double/triple check all of your coax connectors. It sounds like you're getting some attenuation dialed in. You'd see something that first on KET a/o WKYT.

PS: Never rule out the potential effects of rain deluges (or squirrels.)

PPS: I see your original post wrt WKYT was on 6/10 ... I don't see how the June 12/13 shutoffs/moves could have been a factor.

I seen of these antenna's mounted on a 50 foot tower behind a barn in Montgomery County ..and just noticed another one right behind the local radio station (WSKV) ...anybody have a idea what they're used for? ...

I seen of these antenna's mounted on a 50 foot tower behind a barn in Montgomery County ..and just noticed another one right behind the local radio station (WSKV) ...anybody have a idea what they're used for? ...

It looks like a studio to transmitter link, maybe in the 900 MHz range, likely used to send programming. These can be used for data as well.

what does tvfool.com say about your chances?

Here's a look at 30 ft., and 100 ft.

tvfool.com says I don't have a prayer.

I know you want to receive WDKY, but FWIW, if your current DNS waiver via D* isn't "grandfathered" for the digital(given you are now inside their predicted service contour) I believe you would be eligable for DNS waiver. As from what I recall, I believe your current antenna setup meets or exceeds FCC planning factors for DTV reception ...

Thankfully, I have had the NYC HD waivers for some time. Still, it's no substitute for local OTA.

I must confess, that I'm torn between skewering and offering help and comfort today for your efforts to derail the change. :)

That being said, remember that WDKY is still using the old directional ch56 antenna so you may not be getting the full potential ERP yet.

Interesting. I wonder if tvfool is taking this into account?

I am picking up WBKI out in Winchester right now with a strong signal.. about 50% on my oldest capture card with a 3rd gen tuner chip (I think, it is the MyHD MDP-120.. I just know it isn't so forgiving for multipath). Did WBKI increase broadcast power or are the thunderstorms bouncing more signal in my direction? Or is some other station that was previously close to UHF channel 19 now out of the way allowing WBKI's signal to reach me? I hope it is good news. I wish I noticed it earlier during the day cause I could rule out tropo enhancement then. If this holds I will be super happy and CWKYT can kiss my butt and keep their crappy standard def inferior version of prime time programming. I'm probably not so lucky, but it's nice to have a signal locking on for WBKI way out here. Consistency is key though.

EDIT: As I was typing this the signal dropped to an unlockable 13%. Oh well.. I can dream can't I? ;)

EDIT 2: Signal is now at 69%. I sniffing tropo. lol

WDKY on UHF 31 is weaker for me than it was on VHF 4. LOL (58% signal versus 99%). It's still enough for a lock and isn't glitching when the android in the basement farts, so I'm happy. :D

... And, I know you liked being able to DX Ch4 on a regular basis. ;)


For DX'ing purposes, I like it that WDKY is off 4 ....

Looks like they're going to be a bit of a pest on 31 too though .... .... Still, they(on 31, now) seem to be strongest of The Lexington stations here, and the only one I've decoded post-transition ... Well, other than WUPX-DT in Morehead, I had both them and WDKY-DT in, and decoding solidly for a time just before 8PM Sunday evening ...

As far as for myself, Dx'ing is a hobby, and it has nothing to do with my "opinion" of where stations would best work for their viewers who are actually within the service area ...


2) Manchester was never inside the predicted Grade-b contour of Analog 56 or any other Lexington station, for that matter.


It's inside the predicted service contour of the Digital station now ....

The point is, kycubsfan had a good point about folks who can receive lo-VHF who live "behind hills"(including within the predicted service area) but can't decode UHF signals .... He had every right to make that "point", including to the FCC, and he didn't deserve the BS he got for it here from some folks ....

For the REST of the folks in WDKY area (those not blocked by hills and those trying to use UHF antennas to receive VHF signals/etc/etc), because of the issues with electrical interference/etc(among others), and because Lexington was UHF only analog market, as I said before, I personally believe the UHF 31 allocation is best -- HOWEVER, that does NOT mean kycubsfan didn't have a good point, and a valid reason to bring it up to FCC ...


OTOOH, is a basic Dish-HD + Locals sub really that prohibitive???

The issue of not being able to receive UHF signals when VHF signals "work" isn't limited to one guy living behind a hill, and isn't limited to only Cable or satellite subscribers, but only One guy went to the time and effort to say something about it to FCC ...

Also, keep in mind, WDKY had an oppurtunity to "get off" lo-VHF 4 in channel elections WITHOUT a public comment period .... Mobile DTV ATSC M/H wasn't quite on the radar at that time, of course .....

Interesting. I wonder if tvfool is taking this into account?

No, it's not, currently -- as I punched in various locations(including a generic manchester plot) in various directions from WDKY and if you click on the callsign they all indicate 1000KW ERP in all those directions I checked, which would be valid for the construction permit with Non-directional antenna, not the current directional antenna ...

The STA for the current antenna was just granted by FCC a few days ago, and It also didn't pop up at all on FCC site until quite recently .... You might want to ask Andy (TVfool developer), he might need to do a manual override to use the STA record ....

Anyway ... I think you'd be at about a 149 Degree bearing from their tower (unless I messed the math up) ---- FCC site indicates a 0.650 relative field value for 150 degree bearing with their current directional antenna pattern ...

* That would = about 422.5 KW ERP being squirted in your direction(If info on FCC site matches the real world installation) ... Only about 4dB or so less than the "full" 1000 KW ERP of their future non-directional antenna ...

But, I really doubt 4dB more from them is going to make a difference for you ... (Maybe it might help a little if you get a "super antenna" up and get lucky with a reflection off a hill/etc though) ....

* - Formula for figuring ERP in a particular direction from the relative field values is :

(Relative field value in direction of interest SQUARED) x ERP shown on their permit = ERP sent in direction of interest ...

Note that ERP shown on their operating permit is only accurate if the relative field value = 1.000 (as it would in all directions for a non-directional antenna)

So -- in this case the caluculation is :

(.650x .650) x 1,000,000 Watts = 422,500 Watts ERP squirted in your direction ...

Interesting. I wonder if tvfool is taking this into account?

I don't know, but the "official" prediction map from the FCC for the omni-directional digital shows the contour passing directly over Manchester. The analog contour missed by about 10mi. Unfortunately, there's no map posted for the current STA (re-tuned Ch56) configuration.

It's inside the predicted service contour of the Digital station now ....

The point is, kycubsfan had a good point about folks who can receive lo-VHF who live "behind hills"(including within the predicted service area) but can't decode UHF signals .... He had every right to make that "point", including to the FCC, and he didn't deserve the BS he got for it here from some folks ....

And what if somebody at the Commish had a bad hair day actually allowed the needs of the few on the fringe to outweigh the needs of the many based solely on CF's comment??? I think I have every right to express my opinion as well.

I think it's time to let this line of "discussion" fade away before it escalates, needlessly. ... I'm trying to achieve zen on the subject. :)

Unfortunately, there's no map posted for the current STA (re-tuned Ch56) configuration.


WDKY/their consulting engineer submitted a predicted coverage contour map along with the application for the STA. It's within the "WDKY-DT" technical showing which is attached(PDF) to the application, and currently available here :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=763195&formid=911&q_num=5200

Sorry for the double posts, but thought this was important regarding the predicted signal contour :

.... the "official" prediction map from the FCC for the omni-directional digital shows the contour passing directly over Manchester. The analog contour missed by about 10mi.


Regarding that, An "official" FCC document mentioning WDKY post-transition service contour and Manchester which you should be interested in is at below links(Word Doc or PDF format), It's the Report and Order Granting WKDY's Channel change to 31 ...

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-144A1.doc

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-144A1.pdf

I think you'll be interested in the entire Document, if you haven't read it, however, Quote below is a portion of interest from portions of Paragraph 3 and Paragraph 4 from document at above link :


3. ...... WKDY also submits contour coverage maps showing that, while Mr. Dobson’s community of Manchester is outside the Grade B contour of WDKY-TV and therefore, is not predicted to presently receive a viewable over-the-air analog signal, it is located within the predicted 41 dBu contour of the proposed WDKY-DT operations on channel 31. Accordingly, Mr. Dobson will continue to receive a signal from WDKY-DT on the requested channel 31.

4. ......We[FCC] also note that the predicted 41 dBu contour of the proposed operation on digital channel 31 not only encompasses the entire Grade B contour of WDKY-TV, but will also extend digital service to a number of persons, including Mr. Dobson, who do not presently receive a predicted signal from WDKY-TV.

The point is, kycubsfan had a good point about folks who can receive lo-VHF who live "behind hills"(including within the predicted service area) but can't decode UHF signals .... He had every right to make that "point", including to the FCC, and he didn't deserve the BS he got for it here from some folks ....

...

The issue of not being able to receive UHF signals when VHF signals "work" isn't limited to one guy living behind a hill, and isn't limited to only Cable or satellite subscribers, but only One guy went to the time and effort to say something about it to FCC ...

Thanks for your continued support. I will continue to file comment with the FCC on matters of concern to this region, and I hope others will do the same for their respective regions.

The system is set up to give the viewers a voice. Why not use it?

That would = about 422.5 KW ERP being squirted in your direction(If info on FCC site matches the real world installation) ... Only about 4dB or so less than the "full" 1000 KW ERP of their future non-directional antenna ...

But, I really doubt 4dB more from them is going to make a difference for you ... (Maybe it might help a little if you get a "super antenna" up and get lucky with a reflection off a hill/etc though) ....

Thanks again for the excellent analysis.

I agree, it looks grim. However, the FCC declared that "Mr. Dobson will continue to receive a signal from WDKY-DT on the requested channel 31," and I like them and Sinclair too much to allow them to be made liars. :D

I'm gonna point one of these (http://www.tvaerials.com/product.aspx?productid=32) toward Clay's Ferry. If that won't do it, nothing will.

Still picking up WBKI this morning. Signal is around 30%, but it is also foggy outside. Need more fog. :)

And what if somebody at the Commish had a bad hair day actually allowed the needs of the few on the fringe to outweigh the needs of the many based solely on CF's comment??? I think I have every right to express my opinion as well.

I think it's time to let this line of "discussion" fade away before it escalates, needlessly. ... I'm trying to achieve zen on the subject. :)

The crux of my argument is that SE KY, as a territory under the Lexington DMA, should never have been "on the fringe" in the first place. WDKY-4 represented a positive step for OTA here, and that's the reason I, as you say, "interfered." It was with no malice intended for you or any of my other northern neighbors.

Rural eastern Tennessee has decent VHF service, as does rural western North Carolina. IMHO, this region has a reasonable expectation of service that has never been met by Lexington's UHF stations.

Having said that, it's over now. Nothing to do but achieve zen, spend money on exotic antennae and wait for the day when perhaps we'll see more sister stations like WYMT around here.

Thanks again for the excellent analysis.

I agree, it looks grim. However, the FCC declared that "Mr. Dobson will continue to receive a signal from WDKY-DT on the requested channel 31," and I like them and Sinclair too much to allow them to be made liars. :D

You know what I would do? I would call the FCC complaint line (1-888-CALL-FCC) and file a formal complaint. While I support the move to 31, that was utter nonsense that they told you about being able to receive it. Play dumb, say that the FCC told you specifically that you'd be able to receive it and you believed them.

I'm filing comments about WBRA-DT, and I was told they are recording all complaints that come in, so if you want them to hear you, that might be the best way to do it.

- Trip

The crux of my argument is that SE KY, as a territory under the Lexington DMA, should never have been "on the fringe" in the first place. WDKY-4 represented a positive step for OTA here, and that's the reason I, as you say, "interfered." It was with no malice intended for you or any of my other northern neighbors.

Rural eastern Tennessee has decent VHF service, as does rural western North Carolina. IMHO, this region has a reasonable expectation of service that has never been met by Lexington's UHF stations.

Having said that, it's over now. Nothing to do but achieve zen, spend money on exotic antennae and wait for the day when perhaps we'll see more sister stations like WYMT around here.

Or even better, split off Eastern Kentucky into their own DMA so that the opportunity opens up for relatively high powers stations that aren't subordinate to a "sister" station because they are in the same market. Pull in those counties in EKY that are in the Knoxville, Tri-Cities and Charleston DMAs and you have a pretty good-sized market.

It's amazing that all those counties in the mountains are in the Lexington market and 90% of the stations aren't even trying to reach those counties.

Lexington being in the upper corner of the market has something to do with it and the stations pretty much focusing on the bluegrass (to be fair, where the larger numbers of people and money are) is another factor. But if they aren't even going to try then let them just focus on the bluegrass and let people in the mountains help themselves.

If nothing else, any chance the FCC could be talked into requiring a VHF translator or two for certain Lexington stations? :)

I thought it might be smart to recycle the WDKY-DT 4 gear on a tower in the Hazard area and perhaps get 18 and 36 on board with 56 to multicast in SD at least on channel 4. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be something.

I doubt Sinclair would want to put any money into something like that, though.

- Trip

Barbourville cable is able to receive WDKY on channel 31. I'm sure the receive site is on a tower on a hill, but it adds hope to the idea that reception is possible in Manchester.

I think you'll be interested in the entire Document, if you haven't read it, however, Quote below is a portion of interest from portions of Paragraph 3 and Paragraph 4 from document at above link :

Still picking at the scab? ;) :D

Yep, I've read it ... so the FCC was wrong about where the contour falls ... so what? They still reached the correct conclusion. :)

The point is that, historically, Manchester has never been inside the grade-b contour for the pre-transition *Analog* service for *any* Lexington station. The goal was to replicate the original Analog coverage area ... and I doubt that the original Buena Vista transmitter came anywhere close to covering Manchester. For these reasons, I suspect that the number of folks relying solely on OTA reception in the region of interest is practically zero. :)

how's one of these for a super UHF antenna? I thought that the parabolic UHF was a thing of the past, and then I found someone that still makes one :)

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/uhfparabolic.pdf

imagine dual 8 ft antennas on a 4" pipe 100' in the air... makes me want to grunt like Tim the Tool Man.

Rural eastern Tennessee has decent VHF service, as does rural western North Carolina. IMHO, this region has a reasonable expectation of service that has never been met by Lexington's UHF stations.


Exactly.

I do feel your pain. OTOH, I also suspect that you were enjoying stable, reliable FOX-HD and NBC-HD service for months (if not years,) before the vast majority of the "DMA." ;) :D

I just don't think putting up VHF-lo "blowtorches," 60 to 70 miles from your location is the best solution to your problem. I'm sorry but it's just not a zero-sum issue and when/if WDKY ever changes their COL to Manchester, I might be even more sympathetic to your plight. ;) :)

.... But I am trying to forgive .... really I am. :)

I thought it might be smart to recycle the WDKY-DT 4 gear on a tower in the Hazard area and perhaps get 18 and 36 on board with 56 to multicast in SD at least on channel 4. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be something.

I like that idea. :) Of course, getting translators or full power sister stations ala WYMT would be even better. These are ideas I can endorse, wholeheartedly.

You know what I would do? I would call the FCC complaint line (1-888-CALL-FCC) and file a formal complaint. While I support the move to 31, that was utter nonsense that they told you about being able to receive it. Play dumb, say that the FCC told you specifically that you'd be able to receive it and you believed them.

I'm filing comments about WBRA-DT, and I was told they are recording all complaints that come in, so if you want them to hear you, that might be the best way to do it.

- Trip

Just got off the phone. They assured me that no one is receiving the channel 31 service, as WDKY is not broadcasting at all! :rolleyes:

Hope you have better luck with those folks than I did.

Barbourville cable is able to receive WDKY on channel 31. I'm sure the receive site is on a tower on a hill, but it adds hope to the idea that reception is possible in Manchester.

Of course it's possible, but the chances of me replicating a cable headend receive site are slim to none.

Those facilities in this region are traditionally located at the highest point available. The one in Manchester (which receives 31) is a good 500 ft. above me.

how's one of these for a super UHF antenna? I thought that the parabolic UHF was a thing of the past, and then I found someone that still makes one :)

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/uhfparabolic.pdf

imagine dual 8 ft antennas on a 4" pipe 100' in the air... makes me want to grunt like Tim the Tool Man.

That dual parabolic is a thing of beauty.

I just don't think putting up VHF-lo "blowtorches," 60 to 70 miles from your location is the best solution to your problem.

It has worked for years for people living in the shadows of places like Bristol and Asheville.

You are correct that the FCC's main objective was replication of the old analog services. I countered that it was a ridiculous stand, especially in cases of poor performers like WDKY on 56, WYMT on 57 and WLJC on 65.

The transition was a great opportunity to reshuffle the assignments and expand the contours to bring serviceable OTA to underserved areas. It worked with regard to WYMT, now seated with a much greater reach on VHF-12, and WLJC, whose new VHF-7 assignment led to immensely improved reception throughout the region, as well as inclusion on Lexington's cable systems and DBS lineups.

Just got off the phone. They assured me that no one is receiving the channel 31 service, as WDKY is not broadcasting at all! :rolleyes:

Hope you have better luck with those folks than I did.

:mad: I wonder how many viewers received THAT story?

Back to the drawing board.... I had one of the antennas that was "cut" for vhf channel 4. Now I can't get WDKY. I went from about 75% signal strength to about 25%. I can get all of the other Lexington stations at close to 100% with that antenna. I am wondering if I need to pick up a new antenna? UHF parabolic dish? I am in Paris and roughly 23 air miles from your tower. Any ideas how I can receive WDKY again?

Back to the drawing board.... I had one of the antennas that was "cut" for vhf channel 4. Now I can't get WDKY. I went from about 75% signal strength to about 25%. I can get all of the other Lexington stations at close to 100% with that antenna. I am wondering if I need to pick up a new antenna? UHF parabolic dish? I am in Paris and roughly 23 air miles from your tower. Any ideas how I can receive WDKY again?

I am using the Winegard PR-8800 out in Winchester with about 58% signal inside the attic. That antenna is sensitive to ch19, which is WBKI, but is good enough for FOX.

EDIT: Amazing! It is 6pm and I am tuning WBKI a solid 69-75%. Woo!

...Still picking at the scab?


No, I was responding to your comments about the signal contour maps ...


Yep, I've read it ... so the FCC was wrong about where the contour falls ... so what?


"So What" is the FCC's contour methodology does not take irregular terrain into account (unlike many modern propagation models which do) ... thus The predicted service contour is meaningless for the EXACT receive location if it is severely shielded by terrain ...

Well, tonight I am getting 0% signal strength. my 7' x 7' VHF antenna is about 25 feet from the ground in my attic and aimed precisely at the WDKY tower. It hasn't moved since they switched from VHF 4 to UHF 31. KET is also gone. 0% signal on all of those channels. I am on the lookout for a good UHF antenna with high dbi gain to try. I have a feeling that it is never going to work here unless I get a 50' pole.

Back to the drawing board.... I had one of the antennas that was "cut" for vhf channel 4. Now I can't get WDKY. I went from about 75% signal strength to about 25%. I can get all of the other Lexington stations at close to 100% with that antenna. I am wondering if I need to pick up a new antenna? UHF parabolic dish? I am in Paris and roughly 23 air miles from your tower. Any ideas how I can receive WDKY again?

WDKY will test the signal this week as the weather permits. You should provide WDKY your address and have them test in your area. I think they plan to test the 90 degree radial first, but maybe they can hit Paris on the way back to Lexington? I think a parabolic UHF would be overkill, but your neighbors might wonder what you are up to.....

A channel 4 yagi is not a very good UHF antenna :) I'd try a real UHF antenna pointed at the WDKY transmitter. And a pre-amplifier might be useful if you need to push the signal through a lot of cable and a bunch of splitters. Amplify the signal at the antenna, or at least before the first splitter. Remember a two way splitter eats up 3.5dB of signal (actually it eats .5dB and then splits the remaining power in half which is 3dB) a 4 way splitter loss is 7dB. If you remove a few splitters and barrel through to the television and the reception improves, you'll have an idea if a 10dB or 30dB amp would work better. It's simple math (addition and subtraction) to figure out line and passive losses. I think I remember that RG6 loss is about 5 dB per 100', RG59 will loose closer to 8dB per 100' at 575 MHz.

If someone wants to build a super tower, I'd suggest RG11 or even better have someone at the cable company make up a length of 500 or 750 hardline for the down lead. Add in those twin parabolic antennas, they make me think of my lovely wife........

best way to reach the engineers at WDKY is by e-mailing engineering@foxlexington.com

as I've said in the past, my views expressed in this forum are my own, I do not represent Sinclair, WDKY, or any other entity while posting in this forum. I am in close contact with the WDKY engineering staff, so I hope to provide accurate information on their behalf. I also have lexdisia and a tempermental wireless keyboard, so I'm prone to make a mistake or two, so you are bound to see me edit my posts.

P.S. I really like words like "should" instead of "will" and another great word is "hopefully"

WDKY will test the signal this week as the weather permits. You should provide WDKY your address and have them test in your area.

Think they would accept an invite to Manchester? :D:D:D

In all seriousness, do you know if there is a set date for the installation of the permanent 31 antenna? I'd like to get a shot at this before the All-Star Game (July 14).

It has worked for years for people living in the shadows of places like Bristol and Asheville.

Yes for *analog* TV.

The point I've been trying to make is that VHF-lo (at least as it was implemented by WDKY) was completely unsuitable for digital TV. If you think WDKY analog was bad ... you ain't seen nothin'.

I could easily make the case that they failed to reliably replicate the original analog service with digital Ch4 ... and for the Community of License, things only got worse when they moved to Clay's Ferry and fired up the "blowtorch." The FCC and the WDKY engineers made the right decision in moving to Ch31. It's been three days now, numerous lightning strikes and not a single signal dropout, glitch or freeze. This is something that can not say for WKYT on VHF-hi Ch13.

PS: I finally heard every single line of dialog in a "House" episode last night ... this is unprecedented. :) :) :)

"So What" is the FCC's contour methodology does not take irregular terrain into account (unlike many modern propagation models which do) ... thus The predicted service contour is meaningless for the EXACT receive location if it is severely shielded by terrain ...

Exactly ... your mileage may very ... for better or worse.

A channel 4 yagi is not a very good UHF antenna :) I'd try a real UHF antenna pointed at the WDKY transmitter. And a pre-amplifier might be useful if you need to push the signal through a lot of cable and a bunch of splitters.

I agree ... In theory, either a CM4221 outside or attic mounted (perhaps with a pre-amp) should do the trick ... assuming there's not a issue due to the antenna radiation pattern.

Think they would accept an invite to Manchester? :D:D:D

In all seriousness, do you know if there is a set date for the installation of the permanent 31 antenna? I'd like to get a shot at this before the All-Star Game (July 14).


I doubt that WDKY's test setup exceeds your current tower.

I'd plan on watching the All-Star game in HD using your waiver. I don't think WDKY adds much local content to the game anyway. Hopefully DirecTV will add the locals in HD soon. Maybe it would be cheaper to buy a house on top of a hill instead of installing a tower that gets you out of the shadow of one?

The point I've been trying to make is that VHF-lo (at least as it was implemented by WDKY) was completely unsuitable for digital TV.

I suppose I can go along with the (at least as it was implemented by WDKY) caveat. The station viewed the assignment as a burden from day one, and had no intention of leveraging its advantages to build OTA viewership in this region, and VHF viewership in Lexington.

I'm still surprised that WKYT didn't forge some kind of VHF coalition with WDKY. With the years of lead time they had, they could have educated the market on proper VHF reception (a task they completely failed at, as the scores of compaints from people with UHF-only rigs testify.)

In Lexington, it would have helped build viewership for the WKYT/WDKY tandem. In the mountains, WYMT on 12 would have been paired with WDKY. Between them, they have 95% of the OTA NFL, MLB and college basketball/football, and sports is a big reason people in this region take an interest in HD in the first place.

As it stands, Gray now holds the only two VHF commercial stations in the DMA and by all appearances is content to hope and pray that people catch enough signal with UHF rigs to make their stations watchable. It's no wonder broadcast television is faltering.

I'd plan on watching the All-Star game in HD using your waiver. I don't think WDKY adds much local content to the game anyway.

I'm determined to be a WDKY viewer whether you want me or not.

Hopefully DirecTV will add the locals in HD soon. Maybe it would be cheaper to buy a house on top of a hill instead of installing a tower that gets you out of the shadow of one?

I think you overestimate the cost of a residential-grade tower, and just don't get the reason people in my position put up with the hassles of OTA. If I wanted to watch the broadcast nets on DirecTV, then I'd be content to simply watch the broadcast nets on DirecTV.

I just ordered a CM-4228. If that doesn't pick up WDKY, then I don't think anything will. I expect to get some of the Cinci channels as well. I am getting 12-15% on a couple of those with my VHF antenna. I'll report back after I try this new antenna. Going to put in the attic first. Thanks for all of the advice in this forum.

I'm still surprised that WKYT didn't forge some kind of VHF coalition with WDKY. With the years of lead time they had, they could have educated the market on proper VHF reception (a task they completely failed at, as the scores of compaints from people with UHF-only rigs testify.)

I don't know what else I could have tried to improve my VHF reception (either hi or low band) ... WKYT still gets shredded to pieces every time a thunderstorm moves through. All the UHF's are rock solid.

I just ordered a CM-4228. {snip} Going to put in the attic first. Thanks for all of the advice in this forum.

Just remember that attic installations are highly prone to nulls. You may have to work a while to find a good spot. And you may find that as the seasons change, your original spot might not work anymore.

OTOH, if you're within 30 miles of the towers, an outdoor mount should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Post transition, WDKY is 100% signal strength. WKYT, WLEX, WTVQ are all at 92% or higher. WKLE amd WUPX are both at 50% with stable picture. I live in Nicholasville in Keene Crossing behind Lowe's. I have a small Channel Master 3010 Stealthtenna that my D* installer mounted on my roof a couple of years ago. Very happy to have WDKY in HD full time now. Had problems with dropouts especially in stormy weather with ch 4.

I'm gonna point one of these (http://www.tvaerials.com/product.aspx?productid=32) toward Clay's Ferry. If that won't do it, nothing will.

Group "K" UK aerials are almost perfectly suited for post-transition UHF 14-51 channels (US). However, group K is not as frequently used, so it doesn't have as many designs available. A Group aerials, however, are quite common and cover up to US 35/36. I've been thinking of importing one from Blake for a while (the JBX21A):

http://www.blake-uk.com/page/aerial_range/aerial_jbx

I really wish that AD or another domestic company would redesign the 91XG for 14-51. It still seems to be made for 83 per the gain chart.

Edit: Here is a link with information for the various aerial groups in the UK, with an approximate gain chart for the groups:

http://www.aerialsandtv.com/aerials.html#aerialgroups

I just ordered a CM-4228. If that doesn't pick up WDKY, then I don't think anything will. I expect to get some of the Cinci channels as well. I am getting 12-15% on a couple of those with my VHF antenna. I'll report back after I try this new antenna. Going to put in the attic first. Thanks for all of the advice in this forum.

Here are the results of some signal testing on the weak side of the WDKY antenna. All values in dBmV, and everything above -30 on WDKY was decoded by a television easily, the cliff effect comes in at around -35. Antenna used was a UHF corner reflector, 16' above ground unless noted. I'm not typing N and W, you can figure it out. Channel 13 levels are provided, but to be fair, the antenna is UHF only so channel 13 figures are not accurate.

Winchester (in a known 31 null)
lat 38-00.016
long 84-10.474
ele: 994
31 -16.4
39 +11.9
40 +14.5
42 -3.9
13 +4.6
TV decodes 31

Clay City
lat: 37-51.928
long: 83-56.457
el: 623
31 -34.6
39 -10.8
40 -7.8
42 -34.0
13 -32
decodes 31

Stanton
lat 37-50.688
long 83-52.268
el 739
31 -5.9
39 -7.8
40 -5.8
42 -17.9
13 -27.3
decodes 31

Sharpsburg
lat 38-12.250
long 83-55.467
el 1038
31 -28.4@ 16' -22.1@8'
39 +8.2
40 +10.4
42 -12.6
13 -2.2
decodes 31

Elizaville
lat 38-25.061
long 83-49.552
ele 943
31 -25.9
39 -10.6
40 -9.8
42 -37.8
13 -25.9
decodes

Carslisle
38-18.939
83-03.783
840
31 -13.8
39 -19.7
40 -22.5
13 -34.1
decodes

Paris
38-13.386
84-14.729
874
31 +15.3
39 +12.4
40 +13.4
42 -2.7
13 -11.3
wow!

I have more but it's dinner time :) If anything looks out of whack, hit me up, I can double check my typing. The old school in Paris is a disaster, but it looks like the fair starts soon.

I guess I am one of the lucky ones in Winchester for WDKY then. My old school capture board gets about 69% signal (as opposed to 99% on VHF4). Newer tuners handle interference and multipath better than this card does (MyHD MDP-120). I live fairly close to the Walmart off the bypass.

I'm pulling in WBKI again tonight. Seems rain and\or fog helps me get a lock

I think we will find the null in Winchester is very narrow, so there are many more lucky people than unlucky, I tested in an area of Winchester that I already knew was in issue, and it wasn't that bad after all.

Jeffersonville
37-57.843
83-48.161
916
31 -8.8
39 -2.5
40 -1.2
42 -20.8
13 -15.8
decodes

Mt. Sterling
38-02.734
83-56.533
1038
31 -0.3
39 2.9
40 4.6
42 -13.8
13 -11.3
decodes

Camargo
37-59.925
83-53.815
957
31 -5.1
39 -5.1
40 -2.8
42 -16.4
13 -17.8
decodes

Millersburg
38-17.939
84-08.865
835
31 -9.5
39 -8.8
40 -11.1
42 -28.6
13 -17.5
decodes

Tilton
38-20.882
83-45.563
923
31 -35.9
39 -8.2
40 -6.4
42 -22.7
13 -19.0
did not decode, will require high gain outdoor antenna

Paris
38-13.386
84-14.729
874
31 +15.3
39 +12.4
40 +13.4
42 -2.7
13 -11.3
wow!


OK, so these results made me start to think that I was crazy or mentally challenged. I did a factory reset on my Panasonic plasma and did a complete re-setup and rescan. I am now pulling 50 - 70% on WDKY with the VHF antenna. Some signal drop-out and pixelization every 5-10 minutes. I cancelled my order for the big Channel Master antenna. I am going to try a few other things and see if I can get the signal to stabilize at 60 - 70%. Thanks gain for all of your hard work and testing!

OK, so these results made me start to think that I was crazy or mentally challenged. I did a factory reset on my Panasonic plasma and did a complete re-setup and rescan. I am now pulling 50 - 70% on WDKY with the VHF antenna. Some signal drop-out and pixelization every 5-10 minutes. I cancelled my order for the big Channel Master antenna. I am going to try a few other things and see if I can get the signal to stabilize at 60 - 70%. Thanks gain for all of your hard work and testing!

I really didn't expect to see 31 at a higher level in Paris than 40, I was looking through the WTVQ tower to get WDKY which is miles further down the road. That's why I gave it the wow!

I'm one of the unlucky ones in Winchester. I'm on Lexington Ave near the hospital with a very modest setup - a Zenith converter box and a dollar store antenna. Before the transition, I could receive all the Lexington channels clear as a bell. But I haven't been able to get any kind of picture out of WDKY since Friday, just the slightest blip on the signal strength meter.

That said, I've got cable as backup, so I'm not really bothered as long as it's working by the time the fall season starts.

I'm one of the unlucky ones in Winchester. I'm on Lexington Ave near the hospital with a very modest setup - a Zenith converter box and a dollar store antenna. Before the transition, I could receive all the Lexington channels clear as a bell. But I haven't been able to get any kind of picture out of WDKY since Friday, just the slightest blip on the signal strength meter.

That said, I've got cable as backup, so I'm not really bothered as long as it's working by the time the fall season starts.

If you get a QAM-capable tuner, you can tune the HD versions of WDKY, WTVQ, WLEX, WKYT and KET in high def for as little as a basic cable connection with Time-Warner. The Centronics ZAT502 is supposed to tune QAM and looks like it is hard to find and much raised in price since I looked a couple months ago. There are many PC tuners that are qam-capable as well. On my Fusion 5 Lite it is channel 1058 for WDKY in high-def. Time Warner recently encrypted many of the DTV qam channels, but left the ones over-the-air open.

Exactly ... your mileage may very ... for better or worse.


7A ?

Or, Very #7 (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Spin) ?

I really didn't expect to see 31 at a higher level in Paris than 40, I was looking through the WTVQ tower to get WDKY which is miles further down the road. That's why I gave it the wow!

Report from the COL:

D-Day +4: More thunderstorms ... still not a single dropout on WDKY Ch31 ... eh, WooHoo!?? .... I've waited a long time (7 years actually) for this. :)

I'm one of the unlucky ones in Winchester. I'm on Lexington Ave near the hospital with a very modest setup - a Zenith converter box and a dollar store antenna. Before the transition, I could receive all the Lexington channels clear as a bell. But I haven't been able to get any kind of picture out of WDKY since Friday, just the slightest blip on the signal strength meter.

That said, I've got cable as backup, so I'm not really bothered as long as it's working by the time the fall season starts.
Are you getting KET? If so, you should be getting WDKY. Have you rescanned since they went to 31?

ETA: People in other markets having trouble with stations switching between UHF/VHF have had to do a "double" rescan... unplug the antenna, scan (picking up nothing), plug the antenna back in and scan again. Might be worth a shot.

Previously with my CM Stealth no pre-amp I could get 18, 36 full power and 27 about 75%. I could occasionally get 56 at 50-65% before the change. Now that 56 changed I can't pull it in at all with my previous set-up. This was completely unexpected. I rotated the antenna to point right at 56 and got about 65% but I completely lost 27 in the process. What is going on here.

ETA: People in other markets having trouble with stations switching between UHF/VHF have had to do a "double" rescan... unplug the antenna, scan (picking up nothing), plug the antenna back in and scan again. Might be worth a shot.

Yep, It's worth a try. I was having a bizarre issue with WTVQ's 36.3 (and some random KET subchannels) refusing to show up in my channel guide, even though the receiver in question would see and tune to them manually. I finally nuked everything and started over. Problems solved.

Previously with my CM Stealth no pre-amp I could get 18, 36 full power and 27 about 75%. I could occasionally get 56 at 50-65% before the change. Now that 56 changed I can't pull it in at all with my previous set-up. This was completely unexpected. I rotated the antenna to point right at 56 and got about 65% but I completely lost 27 in the process. What is going on here.

Where are you located?

Previously with my CM Stealth no pre-amp I could get 18, 36 full power and 27 about 75%. I could occasionally get 56 at 50-65% before the change. Now that 56 changed I can't pull it in at all with my previous set-up. This was completely unexpected. I rotated the antenna to point right at 56 and got about 65% but I completely lost 27 in the process. What is going on here.

location: Jessamine and Fayette line near US 68 right?

directional antennas like the stealth don't work from the side so well, I expect you would have received channel 4 better if you were pointed at the WDKY tower instead of channel 13. You might find a sweet spot between the Winchester Rd towers and the Clay's Ferry towers where the current antenna works. A preamp might help now as well. Are you pushing the signal through some splitters and coax, or is it a direct run?

Are you getting KET? If so, you should be getting WDKY. Have you rescanned since they went to 31?
Yes, I'm getting KET at about 75-85% strength. I positioned the antenna to where I was getting the strongest KET signal, then did the double rescan thing. No joy. :(

If you get a QAM-capable tuner, you can tune the HD versions of WDKY, WTVQ, WLEX, WKYT and KET in high def for as little as a basic cable connection with Time-Warner.
The HDTV in the living room has a QAM tuner, and I use those channels a lot (though the last time I did a channel scan, the best WTVQ I could find was still 4:3). We still have only analog cable, so anything we can get over QAM is a definite bonus!

The TV I was talking about earlier is in the bedroom. It's antenna-only at the moment because I didn't feel like stringing another cable.

location: Jessamine and Fayette line near US 68 right?

directional antennas like the stealth don't work from the side so well, I expect you would have received channel 4 better if you were pointed at the WDKY tower instead of channel 13. You might find a sweet spot between the Winchester Rd towers and the Clay's Ferry towers where the current antenna works. A preamp might help now as well. Are you pushing the signal through some splitters and coax, or is it a direct run?

Yep that location is right. I have coax split/diplexed multiple times because I have only one line coming in from the outside and it carried 2 dish signal plus OTA antenna. I plan on playing with pointing it one night after the rain goes away, plus I may look at getting a pre-amp now.

Yes, I'm getting KET at about 75-85% strength. I positioned the antenna to where I was getting the strongest KET signal, then did the double rescan thing. No joy. :(


Here's a fun way of getting around living in a null or even in a shadow. Point your directional antenna at a water tower. The water tower may be outside the null, and it's usually higher than your antenna. Water towers are round and very "shiny" when it comes to reflecting RF. This is why the first stealth fighters had no round corners. Water towers do not move, and this makes them a good reflector to use on a regular basis. If you've ever peaked an antenna on a crane, you appreciate the permanent nature of a water tower. The higher gain the antenna the better, you will want to gather as much of the reflection as possible. Even if you don't see a water tower, hunt for a reflection. I know for sure there are many usable channel 31 reflections in Winchester.

I just ordered a CM-4228. If that doesn't pick up WDKY, then I don't think anything will. Going to put in the attic first.

FWIW, I was using a dedicated channel 4 antenna + CM-4228 on rotor in the attic;
digital 56 had been marginal to poor when trees had foliage.
Since the switch to UHF, 56 is much improved.
Now, I need a cool day for crawling into the attic to remove that big yagi
and hi-lo splitter.

Yes, I'm getting KET at about 75-85% strength. I positioned the antenna to where I was getting the strongest KET signal, then did the double rescan thing. No joy. :(


Another possibility could involve issues such as multipath the receiver can't correct for -- an issue which can be quite frequency specific, and which might possibly partly explain why you can get WKLE (on 42), and could get WDKY on 4, but not WDKY on 31 even though they are transmitting from nearly same location ...

Instead of trying the "autoscan" option -- on the Zenith DTT900 or 901 -- if you haven't tried it, punch in "31" on the remote, then press the "signal" meter button, then adjust/move around antenna for highest readings ...

If it locks/decodes video (and remaps to 56-1), then choose Menu/setup/Manual Tuning/Select RF Channel # - and change it to channel 31, then press the button in the middle of the 4 directional arrows (select) -- this will add it/scan it in, (the display for the channel will turn bold), and from then on you'll see them on 56-1 when your surfing channels ...

Note: You can actually do all those functions from the "manual Tuning" option as a signal meter is displayed there as well --- Rather than punching in channel 31 on remote intially, I just described that as its a shortcut you can do to directly access RF channel # and the "signal meter" readings for them if the signal from the particular station using that channel didn't lock+receiver didn't decode the PSIP info during the autoscan because of need for antenna adjustment -- If a local channel is using a specific virtual channel which corresponds to the RF ("real") channel you want to tune to(Which wouldn't be the case for Lexington area stations currently), you can also just punch in a minor channel number they aren't using ... Such as say 18-7 to tune to RF channel 18 ...

Roughly at 1:10pm, did WKYT's antenna get hit? Fine on sat, nothing on OTA.

Roughly at 1:10pm, did WKYT's antenna get hit? Fine on sat, nothing on OTA.

We live near BG Field in Lex and I just checked and we have no OTA from 27 either. Per our TV, there is a signal apparently but it is not strong enough for us to pick it up.
I just called 27's switchboard and was told they're "on the air bright and clear".

Just checked again. 27's OTA signal now being received again. Our TV indicates that signal strength is now about 67%. It had been in mid-90's before so perhaps something still being worked on. Hope so any way.

Yeah, my prior to today strength for WKYT was 94-96%, now its 84-86%.

edit: Actually WKYT was 90-91% prior to the outage, which is where it is back too now.

Preliminary results are that Fox DT 31 is coming in strong here with a stable, drop-free signal. I'll have to see if it's consistent though over the next several days.

DT31 stable all day long with really no drops at all. So far so good.:)

BTW my D* H20 did NOT require a re-scan. The change must be included in the download info from D*.

BTW my D* H20 did NOT require a re-scan. The change must be included in the download info from D*.

Yep ... in fact, it was changed about 24 hours early.

Report from the COL:

D-Day +4: More thunderstorms ... still not a single dropout on WDKY Ch31 ... eh, WooHoo!?? .... I've waited a long time (7 years actually) for this. :)


Several tests off the Danville bypass have channel 31 in positive numbers (dBmV) with an 8 dBd gain corner reflector. It should be very easy to receive WDKY anywhere inside the COL :) Tests in Bardstown, Taylorsville and Frankfort were also very encouraging.

Several tests off the Danville bypass have channel 31 in positive numbers (dBmV) with an 8 dBd gain corner reflector. It should be very easy to receive WDKY anywhere inside the COL :)

Not surprising ... last summer when I was trying to rig up a non-rotor based solution to WBKI-DT, I was picking up WLEX, and WTVQ with a RS U-75, laying on the roof, pointed backwards and straight up to the sky.

FYI, and sorry if this has been mentioned in here already

Here's some information I received to force the DirecTV off air tuners work with new channels:

Menu--> Parental, Favs & Setup--> System Setup--> Sat & Ant--> Antenna Setup--> Reset Off-Air Settings

Anybody know what the new tower is for at Exit 97? Just to the West of the interstate. Doesn't look like a cellular, just 1-2 antennas.

Anybody know what the new tower is for at Exit 97? Just to the West of the interstate. Doesn't look like a cellular, just 1-2 antennas.

It belongs to Madison County.

While I'm here, an interesting article about VHF DTV:

http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/06/26/daily.4/?page=1

There's a bunch of those articles floating around now - that was a good one with some interesting comments. Last time I was at WKRC's site, there were 84 comments/complaints of losing signal post transition. Sure some were noobs, but many were like me - the low power VHF is killing me. KRC went from being my strongest Cinncy station to not there at all. Now I have to suffer WKYT again unless I can get lucky with WHIO, which is coming in at night post transition.

I sent KRC an email and filed a complaint with the FCC. I know it doesn't matter, but more stuff for the pile can't hurt. Here's the conversation I had with a KRC engineer (he was nice enough to email me his phone.)

Me: Yeah, KRC used to be my best station, now with the low power switch, I can't get it.

Him: Oh, you should be getting it even better cause it will go farther and whatever.

Me: I'm 50 miles south ...

Him: Oh, well, you won't get it then.

Anyone have a signal outage for WKYT? I've rescanned, I've got all my other channels, I'm stumped-

Thanks in advance. If you read my prior post, I've checked & it's not that same loose connection.

WKYT coming in loud and clear here in Southwest Lexington.

Arrrgh! Wkyt & subchannels are back up, but now KET 46.1-4 are gone!?!

WKRC is on high-VHF and they're already using circular polarization. I don't know if they can tweak anything else to make their signal more obtainable near the fringes of the area.

I saw a similar report from someone a little north of Dayton (approximately 50 miles away). They got a solid lock on WKRC when it was on RF 31, but had problems getting it after they moved back to RF 12.