I'm not remotely qualified to discuss circular polarization, but I've seen several references to it on other forums as being inferior to horizontal, to the tune of several db. I just googled it and I'm shocked that a broadcaster would use it. The only justification is for close in viewers as far as I can tell, so I guess WKRC is intentionally screwing anyone outside a few miles.

Funny, one thing I read is CP requires a doubling of power. I wonder if I could get them at double their power with HP? Now I know why the Cinncy people hate that station so much.

I'm not remotely qualified to discuss circular polarization, but I've seen several references to it on other forums as being inferior to horizontal, to the tune of several db. I just googled it and I'm shocked that a broadcaster would use it. The only justification is for close in viewers as far as I can tell, so I guess WKRC is intentionally screwing anyone outside a few miles.

That's interesting. Most of what I've seen about CP has been positive. Their analog signal on RF 12 had been running CP for many years before the switch a few weeks ago.

Now I know why the Cinncy people hate that station so much.

Are you thinking about WCPO (digital RF 10)? Their signal has been the hardest one to get in the Cincinnati market, but they're installing a new CP antenna on top of their tower (their old digital antenna was side-mounted) so their signal should improve soon.

No, it's WKRC that seemed to me to get a lot of negative remarks in your home thread. They even made fun of me when I complained about WKYT (our local CBS affiliate down here.) I guess they're a pretty low-rent station. I'm talking about in general here, over time, not just whether a person can receive it now.

I was told straight out that I wouldn't be able to get WKRC after the change because I had said I couldn't get WCPO. I guess their transmitters are a block apart and post-transition would be similar power. I know they're supposed to be moving the CPO antenna to the top, supposed to be done by now actually, but I haven't checked to see if I can get it.

Doesn't really matter if I can get ABC ... unless the weird in and out of focus they do on live sports down here is a local deal, but I've been assuming it's network wide. I need a CBS affiliate that airs network programming and does it in default resolution. Not too much to ask you would think, but down here apparently it's some kind of bizarre concept.

I'm going to make my best effort at getting WHIO and live with the results. Can't be any worse than now, and might be better.

WKLE was down for tower work and will be again this week.. We are repairing damage to the DTV antenna and tower lights.

William

unless the weird in and out of focus they do on live sports down here is a local deal, but I've been assuming it's network wide. It is a local issue. It's a setting on the station's Flexicoder called "adaptive filtering" and it should be off. We've told WKRC about it numerous times but they still have that problem last I checked (don't watch CBS except for NFL and NCAA basketball really). If it's your ABC station that has the problem though, WCPO (Cincinnati ABC) does not have the focus/blur issue.

Most of the "disdain" toward WKRC has nothing to do with being able to receive them, rather it's things like forgetting to switch to HD (mostly resolved now that they have automatic switching), dropping HD to insert graphics (they can do some HD graphics now but still drop to SD from time to time), the flexicoder setting (blur issue), and generally low bandwidth dedicated to the HD channel (8-12Mbps generally, with SD subchannel CW on 12-2).

No, it's WKRC that seemed to me to get a lot of negative remarks in your home thread. They even made fun of me when I complained about WKYT (our local CBS affiliate down here.) I guess they're a pretty low-rent station. I'm talking about in general here, over time, not just whether a person can receive it now.

I was told straight out that I wouldn't be able to get WKRC after the change because I had said I couldn't get WCPO. I guess their transmitters are a block apart and post-transition would be similar power. I know they're supposed to be moving the CPO antenna to the top, supposed to be done by now actually, but I haven't checked to see if I can get it.

Doesn't really matter if I can get ABC ... unless the weird in and out of focus they do on live sports down here is a local deal, but I've been assuming it's network wide. I need a CBS affiliate that airs network programming and does it in default resolution. Not too much to ask you would think, but down here apparently it's some kind of bizarre concept.

I'm going to make my best effort at getting WHIO and live with the results. Can't be any worse than now, and might be better.

According to a blog item posted today by the Cincy Enquirer's TV/radio guru, John Kiesewetter, WCPO won't complete the final move of their permanent digital antenna and fire up to full power until this coming weekend. Weather reportedly delayed the work.

As for WHIO in Dayton, they're also moving their permanent digital antenna atop the existing tower, and planned to complete it by the end of June. I've seen nothing on their website or in the Dayton newspaper lately, so can't say if they're on schedule or not. However, their signal is still puny at my home west of Hamilton OH -- I doubt they've completed work yet. Hope not, anyway -- I'm counting on a major boost to make them viewable again!

EDIT: Found out yesterday, simply by e-mailing WHIO's chief engineer, that their tower work had been delayed due to weather problems detaining the necessary work crews -- but the move of their permanent digital antenna atop their tower will begin this week on Wed. Looks like they'll be firing up to full power sometime in early or mid July!

ESPN ESPN2 TBS FX TNT ...... I has to cost them more to scramble than to let a few tv owners get it for free.

Probably because those are pay channels and they are securing their signal.

I understand that they are paid for when you get the other analog channels, you can't watch both at the same time.

I understand that they are paid for when you get the other analog channels, you can't watch both at the same time.

Is there any way to get a TWC box that decodes QAM\decrypts it without renting a box from them?

Thanks for the replies, some good info there. I'll have to keep an eye on WHIO and give them some time before spending any money I guess. I found John's blog and emailed him since he asked for input. I didn't know that Cincinnati set the national record for post-transition complaints, and by a good bit too. Doesn't make me feel any better though lol.

When I get motivated enough I'll contact WTVQ on the flexicoder issue and see what they say. It's been going on so long I'm sure they have some excuse for it.

I didn't know that Cincinnati set the national record for post-transition complaints, and by a good bit too. Doesn't make me feel any better though lol.

There was another item on Kiesewetter's blog that indicated Cincinnati wasn't REALLY the epicenter of DTV confusion, although it might be interesting to try to figure out whether we had a disproportionately high number based on market size. If you're just looking at absolute numbers of phone calls, I'd definitely expect the largest markets to have the most. After all, Cincinnati is only #33 in size!

Here is the link: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a6a7 38f83-dd2c-481d-bb2f-13faeb2c99d7&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

l

Looks like Lexington HD is coming to D* later this summer.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2146790#post2146790

I'm still not sure I wll get rid of my antenna, but it is good news.

Thanks,
Steve

Looks like Lexington HD is coming to D* later this summer.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2146790#post2146790

I'm still not sure I wll get rid of my antenna, but it is good news.

Thanks,
Steve

Per Directv's website, the target date for Lexington is October, not quite this summer but better than having no date at all.

I spent about 2 hours this week rotating my antenna and got WDKY in. Right now its about 68% but I have yet to see any drop outs. I could get it higher but would lose some of WKYT which is more sensitive. I have never been able to get a PBS station but I don't want to spend anymore money trying to get them.

I tried the CM Stealth pre-amp but that did not work at all for my location. So I have a CM Stealth pre-amp for sale now.

Thanks for the replies, some good info there. I'll have to keep an eye on WHIO and give them some time before spending any money I guess. I found John's blog and emailed him since he asked for input. I didn't know that Cincinnati set the national record for post-transition complaints, and by a good bit too. Doesn't make me feel any better though lol.

When I get motivated enough I'll contact WTVQ on the flexicoder issue and see what they say. It's been going on so long I'm sure they have some excuse for it.

Let us know, I'd love nothing more than to call in and complain about this issue. It's so bad I don't watch sports on ABC.

I'm going to make my best effort at getting WHIO and live with the results. Can't be any worse than now, and might be better.

Just found out directly from WHIO (via their Twitter account) that the final move of their digital antenna atop their tower has been delayed again, and won't start until Monday (July 6) -- so anyone hoping to get a distant signal from WHIO will have more luck sometime afterwards, when they fire up to full power as last.

Can't wait -- I'm very hopeful to be able to get them full-time again OTA myself!

ESPN ESPN2 TBS FX TNT ...... I has to cost them more to scramble than to let a few tv owners get it for free.

In order for those networks to set their advertising rates, they need to know how many eyeballs are watching them (esp. their HD feeds). If TWC (and other cable ops) sent them out in the clear, there would be no way for them to know how many people are watching them. My guess is the reason for the scrambling is a request from the programmers as opposed to TWC trying to keep you from watching Law & Order in HD.

Was flipping through my stations tonight, and TWC decided to bless me here in Richmond with Discovery, History Channel, Bravo, USA, CNN, CNBC, Fox News, Outdoor, Speed, Golf, National Geographic, Disney, ABC Family, SyFy, and ESPNNews all in HD! I believe that the sports channels above are only activated if you have the corresponding digital package that includes them. Anyway, this is a major step in the right direction.

I spent about 2 hours this week rotating my antenna and got WDKY in. Right now its about 68% but I have yet to see any drop outs. I could get it higher but would lose some of WKYT which is more sensitive. I have never been able to get a PBS station but I don't want to spend anymore money trying to get them.

I tried the CM Stealth pre-amp but that did not work at all for my location. So I have a CM Stealth pre-amp for sale now.

Booker, what's your location? I've got two Stealth antennas with the pre-amps and think it's the most stable antenna for my area.

Booker, what's your location? I've got two Stealth antennas with the pre-amps and think it's the most stable antenna for my area.


Off Harrodsburg Road at the Jessamine/Fayette County line. I tuned the channels using the normal stealth set-up and after 2 hours I just quit. I may try it with the pre-amp to get a slight better signal with 27 because it has dipped in the 65% range some nights.

Booker-

I just want to make sure... you CAN get 'DKY on ch. 31 but NOT KET on 42? That makes no sense.

Off Harrodsburg Road at the Jessamine/Fayette County line. I tuned the channels using the normal stealth set-up and after 2 hours I just quit. I may try it with the pre-amp to get a slight better signal with 27 because it has dipped in the 65% range some nights.

What's you cable length? I'm using about 50 ft length. Have you considered maybe you've got a bad connection? Try bringing the stealth close to the TV (use a broom pole to support it) and use a different cable. See what that gets you.

Booker-

I just want to make sure... you CAN get 'DKY on ch. 31 but NOT KET on 42? That makes no sense.

Yep, I don't even get a blip from KET but am at about 72% now on WDKY.


I have about 50' of cable total. One issue is that I run the antenna in with the sat signal on 1 cable and then diplex it out.

Steve what r u picking up in morehead i'm getting ready to move to webbville

Was flipping through my stations tonight, and TWC decided to bless me here in Richmond with Discovery, History Channel, Bravo, USA, CNN, CNBC, Fox News, Outdoor, Speed, Golf, National Geographic, Disney, ABC Family, SyFy, and ESPNNews all in HD! I believe that the sports channels above are only activated if you have the corresponding digital package that includes them. Anyway, this is a major step in the right direction.

Are you picking them up through a TWC cable box or straight in your digital TV set? If it is the latter, then I should try in Winchester and see if I am getting them too (I don't have a TWC cable box).

Are you picking them up through a TWC cable box or straight in your digital TV set? If it is the latter, then I should try in Winchester and see if I am getting them too (I don't have a TWC cable box).

Unfortunately, through the twc box. I assume they are scrambling them for qam tuner users, but it's worth a shot if you want to try it.

Unfortunately, through the twc box. I assume they are scrambling them for qam tuner users, but it's worth a shot if you want to try it.

Actually qam-tuning was working for those other channels (without a box) up until a few months ago (for TBS, FX anyway), but then they started to encrypt them, so that was the end of that. I was just curious if with recent changes if they forgot to encrypt those channels (and any new ones) again. I'll have to do a re-scan and see what happens. I'm a paying TWC customer (for Internet) and got basic added to my account for a small fee (like a lifeline deal), but don't rent a box. I don't like the "you must pay to rent a box from us" requirement.. should be free IMO. lol

Anyone know if equipment installation, etc. is still underway at Directv's local site for local station HD delivery (announced by D* to start by October)?

Equipment is installed. A Direct rep was on site last week (doing what, I don't know). I don't know if the equipment is fully functional however.

Equipment is installed. A Direct rep was on site last week (doing what, I don't know). I don't know if the equipment is fully functional however.

Thanks for your update, Sam. Glad to see things are progressing! Hopefully, activities bode well for timely implementation.

Per Directv's previous announcement, the Roanoke/Lynchburg Va area got (6) local HD channels via satellite today. That announcement also indicated that Lexington would be started in October. So far, they're keeping their schedule. Fingers still crossed!!!

I have noticed the WYMT is vulnerable to lightning interference. I have heard that many stations are having these issues. The FCC has clearly underestimated how much power is needed for VHF DTV. Does anyone know if WYMT and WKYT are intending to go up on power? WMAK 7 down in Knoxville has approval to go up to 95 KW.

I have noticed the WYMT is vulnerable to lightning interference. I have heard that many stations are having these issues. The FCC has clearly underestimated how much power is needed for VHF DTV. Does anyone know if WYMT and WKYT are intending to go up on power? WMAK 7 down in Knoxville has approval to go up to 95 KW.

I don't think that WYMT could go up in power because of interference issues with stations in Chattanooga and Cincinnati (and adjacent channels in Johnson City and Louisville) but it would be nice if they could.

Even at 50kw being on channel 12 has practically doubled the number of viewers who can pick up WYMT even though the signal itself doesn't reach that much more area than 57 did.

WMAK is a special case because digital channel 7 stations across the country are having problems and the FCC is "experimenting" to see if they can fix them. :)

There's probably some co-channel interference already. If not, even a doubling of power isn't likely to change the situation that much. I don't think adjacent channel interference is really much of an issue with digital.

The coverage issues with vhf hi seem to exist throughout the band and are not isolated to channel 7.

Hey, I am picking up WSYX (ABC) from Columbus, Ohio in Winchester right now.. 100% signal, but no programming. Any idea why I have such a strong signal, but no programming to view on the channel?

EDIT: Seems they broadcast on VHF channel 13, which WKYT is also using. I guess that is the reason.

EDIT2: The 100% signal is obviously from WKYT, but somehow that DTV converter box saw the PSIP for WSYX sometime to add to the channel list.

Is WKYT 27-2 back in 720p? I received an e-mail telling me this, and I'd like to confirm.

- Trip

Is WKYT 27-2 back in 720p? I received an e-mail telling me this, and I'd like to confirm.

- Trip

Nope, I just took a capture and it is 720X480P. Maybe at primetime tonight my Smallville will be back to HD (one can hope). I'll check again then.

EDIT: forgot to check out primetime (D'OH!)

I called my contact who had e-mailed me that information and he said that he had called WKYT and confirmed that it was in SD. He complimented me on being ahead of him on it.

But he says they're working on bringing it back. You might call the station and see what they have to say about it.

- Trip

But he says they're working on bringing it back.

... oh ... joy ... I mean, it not like they don't already have the crappiest PQ in the market ... yeah! Let's make it even worse ... again :rolleyes:

Anyone picking up the Lexington (UHF) broadcasters from 50+ miles away reliably? I'm trying to help someone out who keeps having WLEX cut out. They're using a "consumer grade" converter box which I think is at the heart of their problem. I'd like to be able to recommend a specific receiver if someone has had good luck with one.

Thanks

... oh ... joy ... I mean, it not like they don't already have the crappiest PQ in the market ... yeah! Let's make it even worse ... again :rolleyes:

Yep right in time for the NFL season too. I guess there won't be any primetime games on CBS but still.

I swear I didn't bitch about CWKYT not in HD, but maybe others did? Yes, although the quality of CBS was degraded, it could have been much worse (who remembers analog TV, ghosting, herringbone, etc?) ;)
I wonder if advertisers wanted their advertisements in CW in high-def, but WKYT couldn't accommodate that without taking some bandwidth from CBS to give to CWKYT. It would truly be amusing if that were the reason for CWKYT heading back to HD (when I thought months ago that was the reason for it going to standard def). lol

I swear I didn't bitch about CWKYT not in HD, but maybe others did? Yes, although the quality of CBS was degraded, it could have been much worse (who remembers analog TV, ghosting, herringbone, etc?) ;)

Clearly, you haven't seen WLKY a/o WBKI vs. WKYT/CWKYT :D

That being said, if they were able to feed a decent signal to Cable/DBS without wrecking the OTA PQ ... press on. :)

OTOH, I don't know why I even care anymore. Letterman, Ferguson and occasional local news are the only things I watch on WKYT anymore: it's more convenient for the DVR.

I just heard that WKYT is going to move to UHF utilizing channel 36, any one else hear anything?

Nothing on the FCC site, though it wouldn't surprise me.

- Trip

Ok here's the million dollar question.. why doesn't WTVQ move to channel 36? ;)

OO.. here's an idea.. maybe WKYT is planning on moving CBS to channel 36, however they keep channel 13 for CWKYT. Is there a way that each 8SVB stream can have a pointer to the other so that when you tune either '13' or '36' the virtual channel mapping will tell the receiver that both are virtual channel 27; one being 27.1 and the other 27.2, though coming off different RF frequencies? That would be neat and give them double the broadcasting bandwidth.. full bandwidth for CBS in HD and full bandwidth for CW in HD? Would they make enough advertising dollars to fund dual broadcasts like that?

Speaking of WKYT/CWKYT, the PSIP guide info is screwed up.
WKYT 27.1 is displaying: 57.1 CBS HD (WMYT) programming.
CWKYT 27.2 is displaying: 57.2 CBS SD (WKYT feed) programming.

But good news! 27.3 is correctly displaying "Radar Sweep". :rolleyes:

Also, do the broadcasters, specifically WLEX have any legal obligation to display 'correct' PSIP info? Anotherwords, does a station have to meet any FCC requirements as to the information displayed in the PSIP guide?
WLEX is way too lax in their PSIP guide info, all too often it displays 'DTV Program", typically during the prime time slot.
Why can't they get their act together? If it's so dang time consuming, get a intern for crying out loud.

OO.. here's an idea.. maybe WKYT is planning on moving CBS to channel 36, however they keep channel 13 for CWKYT. Is there a way that each 8SVB stream can have a pointer to the other so that when you tune either '13' or '36' the virtual channel mapping will tell the receiver that both are virtual channel 27; one being 27.1 and the other 27.2, though coming off different RF frequencies? That would be neat and give them double the broadcasting bandwidth.. full bandwidth for CBS in HD and full bandwidth for CW in HD? Would they make enough advertising dollars to fund dual broadcasts like that?

Sure ... but do you really think they would be able to resist the temptation to put multiple sub-channels on both (hypothetical) transmitters? :D

And, will they be able to afford it once the SEC (UK B-ball) moves to ESPN or wherever and they lose their #1 money maker for the year. ;)

Sure ... but do you really think they would be able to resist the temptation to put multiple sub-channels on both (hypothetical) transmitters? :D

And, will they be able to afford it once the SEC (UK B-ball) moves to ESPN or wherever and they lose their #1 money maker for the year. ;)

Oh they make a ton at reality programming since the cost of producing those things is less than TV sitcoms and Survivor is popular still, right? :rolleyes:

OO.. here's an idea.. maybe WKYT is planning on moving CBS to channel 36, however they keep channel 13 for CWKYT.

Nice idea, except that the filing window for new stations is currently closed. The operation you propose is illegal right now.

Is there a way that each 8SVB stream can have a pointer to the other so that when you tune either '13' or '36' the virtual channel mapping will tell the receiver that both are virtual channel 27; one being 27.1 and the other 27.2, though coming off different RF frequencies?

Yes. A number of stations do it, like KTCI/KTCA and WNVC/WNVT.

Also, do the broadcasters, specifically WLEX have any legal obligation to display 'correct' PSIP info? Anotherwords, does a station have to meet any FCC requirements as to the information displayed in the PSIP guide?

There's a requirement to have accurate EIT data, I just don't know how far into the future it has to go.

- Trip

WKYT has definitely filed a petition with the FCC. Won't know if it's channel 36 or not until morning.

- Trip

WKYT has definitely filed a petition with the FCC. Won't know if it's channel 36 or not until morning.

- Trip

Man all of our local affiliates are trying to make my homemade VHF wireloop antenna less useful. LOL

Too bad about the muxicast idea being illegal right now. VHF channel 4 is now open as I understand it. ;)

Ok here's the million dollar question.. why doesn't WTVQ move to channel 36? ;)We're back to the fact that TVQ and LEX and sharing the same facilities (transmission line & antenna). I don't know if that would work if the stations weren't adjacent.

WLEX is way too lax in their PSIP guide info, all too often it displays 'DTV Program", typically during the prime time slot.
Why can't they get their act together? If it's so dang time consuming, get a intern for crying out loud.The PSIP data is supposed to be automatically downloaded (no human intervention required). There was a problem a couple weeks ago that was supposedly fixed. From reading your post, I'm guessing it wasn't.

WKYT is confirmed in requesting channel 36. They want 980' 1000 kW DA.

- Trip

And, will they be able to afford it once the SEC (UK B-ball) moves to ESPN or wherever and they lose their #1 money maker for the year. ;)
But they're not really losing it. The games that were produced by Raycom (and before them by Jefferson Pilot) and aired on WKYT will now be produced by ESPN and aired on WKYT.

But they're not really losing it. The games that were produced by Raycom (and before them by Jefferson Pilot) and aired on WKYT will now be produced by ESPN and aired on WKYT.

Ok ... but ... I bet it's going to cost them a lot more now, and I doubt they'll get as many local ad spots. ;) <- Speculation, of course ... but no good ever comes from ESPN. :)

Well I don't get ESPN in HD, so there's less ball games to watch in high def I guess to. Guess I will watch something else then. ;)

Ok ... but ... I bet it's going to cost them a lot more now, and I doubt they'll get as many local ad spots. ;) <- Speculation, of course ... but no good ever comes from ESPN. :)
They must not be too concerned w/loss of revenue since they're installing a $1 million doppler.:eek:

They must not be too concerned w/loss of revenue since they're installing a $1 million doppler.:eek:

Humm ... what's an extra HD encoder (or two) and a fiber run cost these days. :D

WKYT is confirmed in requesting channel 36. They want 980' 1000 kW DA.

- Trip
If channel 27 is still available I wonder why WKYT hasn't requested to go back to that frequency instead of going to channel 36. I would think they would still have an antenna for that channel unless digital broadcasting requires a new design antenna.

Channel 27 is not available, probably due to spacing concerns with WLKY-26 in Louisville.

- Trip

Channel 27 is not available, probably due to spacing concerns with WLKY-26 in Louisville.

- Trip
Thanks Trip. It's been a bit of a mystery to me though through the whole digital conversion process why so many station wanted to change their broadcast frequencies rather than flash cut their digital signal back to their old analog channels, especially for stations on the UHF band. [Whew, that was a long sentence. Sorry.]

Thanks Trip. It's been a bit of a mystery to me though through the whole digital conversion process why so many station wanted to change their broadcast frequencies rather than flash cut their digital signal back to their old analog channels, especially for stations on the UHF band.

Logistics. It was far easier/cheaper to stay on their initial full power digital allotment than "switch" a third time ... assuming there were no problems with the original allotment (WDKY for instance.)

Remember, in theory (:D), stations had been running full power digital and analog transmitters concurrently from 2002-2009. It's easier to just turn off the analog transmitter and be done with it. However, the devil's in the details.

I can only assume that WKYT no longer wants to be the odd man out on VHF-hi in a historically UHF only market. Or, as discussed above, they may have plans to leave CWKYT on ch13 and move CBS programming back to it's own transmitter.

If WKYT-DT channel 36 signed on, wouldn't that be a problem for WLWT-DT Channel 35?

I could get WLKY-DT 26 a lot better when I am in Georgetown now.

If WKYT-DT channel 36 signed on, wouldn't that be a problem for WLWT-DT Channel 35? See this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17063088#post17063088 in the Cincy thread.

does anyone have a link to the pattern and/or predicted contour WKYT plans to use for channel 36?

does anyone have a link to the pattern and/or predicted contour WKYT plans to use for channel 36?


It's in the exhibit(on page 12+13) attached to the petition itself , PDF of which is Currently available via FCC's ECFS .... Currently, a docket # hasn't been assigned to it yet, and the petition currently(a temporary condition) shows up in ECFS if you search for PRM09MB for the proceeding ...

It's the one with the 8/21 date "Filed on Behalf of : Gray Television Licensee, LCC ...

Here's direct link (if it works) to the (PDF)Petition and tech exhibit :

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020036654

Update: The proposed facilty is 1000KW ERP, Biggest null(directly north) would be .353 relative field value, which is about a 9dB null (about 125KW ERP ) ...

Of course, WKYT current facilities on 13 (30KW ERP ) also utilizes directional antenna pattern, with the biggest nulls to the West and NW (.296 relative field value = aout 2.6KW ERP -- about 11dB null, Max) ..

Thanks Jeff!

Very interesting reading. Nice to see WKYT acknowledging the loss of Eastern Kentucky viewers and suggesting alternatives even though recent events in the market would suggest they didn't have to.

I haven't pored over many apps lately; this is the first time I've seen mobile reception emphasized to this degree.

I need help. I've had a problem for about 2 years now and I can't figure it out. Toshiba 50" DLP 720. We cancelled the cable and bought a powered Terk HD antenna. We live in south Lexington around Fayette Mall. The picture comes in clear for all channels but all three channel 27 broadcasts do not get sound. I have lived in two places and tried multiple antennas but I still have this problem. Has anyone else had this problem? Is it something wrong with my tv? Bestbuy suggested hooking up a converter box even though I have a built in tuner. Converter works but nothing is in HD. I need to fix this before the new shows start or my wife will kill me. Please post or e-mail me at mitchelllipp at yahoo. Thanks

Does your TV have a "SAP" button or "Audio" button? If so, have you tried using it? Otherwise, check though your menus for something about SAP or alternate audio.

- Trip

I need help. I've had a problem for about 2 years now and I can't figure it out. Toshiba 50" DLP 720. We cancelled the cable and bought a powered Terk HD antenna. We live in south Lexington around Fayette Mall. The picture comes in clear for all channels but all three channel 27 broadcasts do not get sound. I have lived in two places and tried multiple antennas but I still have this problem. Has anyone else had this problem? Is it something wrong with my tv? Bestbuy suggested hooking up a converter box even though I have a built in tuner. Converter works but nothing is in HD. I need to fix this before the new shows start or my wife will kill me. Please post or e-mail me at mitchelllipp at yahoo. Thanks

Does your TV have an optical audio-out port? If you have a DD5.1 (and larger) audio processor receiver you can decode that light to sound through your receiver to the speakers attached to your audio receiver. You'll need a fiber optic cable like this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=1448&seq=1&format=2
Tip: Best Buy and local businesses will rape you on the price. I do my cable-buying online. :)

If your TV happens to have a digital coaxial output for audio you can do the same thing by trying to connect the audio from the TV to the audio receiver. The coax digital connection will work with a standard RCA cable if you want to test that out.

This is all assuming you have a DD5.1 (or larger) audio receiver, but just thought you might want to give that a try if you have this available to you.

The other local channels have sound?

Yes, all other channels have sound. On the three 27 channels I get great picture but no sound. Don't have a receiver hooked up yet.

According to the guys over at dbstalk we will get our local stations in HD tomorrow on Directv

Yes, all other channels have sound. On the three 27 channels I get great picture but no sound. Don't have a receiver hooked up yet.

So your TV has an optical or digital coax-out for audio? I know my newer 32" LCD TV has optical audio output, but my older projection TV has neither. An old 5.1 audio receiver should have either (or both) optical\coax inputs. Something similar to this - http://www.dakmart.com/product_info.php?products_id=4611
Course you need speakers then too.

WLEX, WKYT, WTVQ, and WDKY went live in HD on DirecTV this morning. Finally. :)

Yes, all other channels have sound. On the three 27 channels I get great picture but no sound. Don't have a receiver hooked up yet.
This is not an antenna issue. More than likely it's a TV issue. More testing is needed... trying the audio out connections (optical, coaxial or analog) into a receiver is a good idea. Using SOME kind of other tuner (ideally hooked up to the same line your current TV is on) is another good test.

On 2nd thought... you don't say what your signal strength is for WKYT. I guess it's possible (I don't think probable) an extremely low (or high) signal strength could cause audio problems. This is where using another tuner would help.

For two years you've gotten no audio from KYT? Have you called the engineers there yet? They may know of an issue with your particular set.

When I worked at WDBJ, I was told that there was a known issue with certain models of TV defaulting to SAP audio on just our signal, even though we were not transmitting any SAP audio. This would lead to no audio on 7-1, and was easily fixed by finding that setting and turning it off.

That's why I suggested it.

- Trip

According to the guys over at dbstalk we will get our local stations in HD tomorrow on Directv

Does the antenna stay, or go... Hmmm...

Anyone know when TWC will get us the SDV adapters? I sent an email to them 2 weeks ago asking them, the auto response said I would hear from someone in 24 hours. A week later I get an email saying this question will be forwarded to a local response unit. Still nothing.

Glad to have locals in HD via direct tv. But, after wdky made the switch.
I am able to receive all the locals in HD via ota antenna. Kinda took a little
of the excitement out of it for me.. Now I guess it's the wait for 1080p programming..lol

Does anyone have any clue here

I have Directv; last year I "moved" to Louisville to get locals in HD....Lex now has HD locals and I called today to "move" back. The CSR updated my service address back to Lexington, refreshed twice, had me red button reset twice, I still have Louisville locals. I've also refreshed from the Directv website. BAD KARMA PERHAPS?

WLEX, WKYT, WTVQ, and WDKY went live in HD on DirecTV this morning. Finally. :)

They look great, this was a nice surpise tonight for me! I was watching the NBC news and was thinking, gee that looks pretty good and then I got closer to the TV and then I realized they are finally here. Hopefully they will add PBS someday as well, but I am very happy about this. The DirecTV news release months back said October (which I took to mean Nov 1 or later) instead they exceeded expectations. Well not exactly, we were the largest DMA in the US not to have HD locals, but anyway, way to go DirecTV and thank you for getting these up finally!

What great news! I don't check this part of AVS everyday but just happened by today and got the news. In 2005 we built a house and put an antenna in the attic and had it connected to the Direct box-everything was great. In 12/2007 I upgraded to the newer boxes that no longer had antenna inputs. (great added content I didn't care about and lost my locals) I thought well it won't be to long before they upgrade so I left well enough alone. Man its been a long time. Now I'm again looking forward to the ABC broadcasts of the CATS!

WLEX, WKYT, WTVQ, and WDKY went live in HD on DirecTV this morning. Finally. :)

Eh ... woo ... hoo .... ????? :)

Oh well, I guess it does make DVR scheduling much easier ... especially given the impending Thursday night Gage/Deathmatches.

Random A/B Lil vs. OTA, hard to find much fault in PQ (so far) ... OTOH, In less than 10 minutes of viewing on WDKY, the dreaded "Max Headroom Brrrrrrrap" bug struck at least once.

I think the TiVo is still going to get the lion's share of network recording off the antenna.

D*HD lil looks great other than (downconverted:() WKYT. I'll be watching an alternate CBS via OTA whenever feasible as it is now.

now if we could only get the audio on the sat providers in sync :)

question

I finally got my Louisville locals switched back to Lex locals. Once the change went through, I noticed WHAS had ABC's General Hospital in full HD, while WTVQ is broadcasting it in SD on the HD channel. I wonder why?

So what lame ass excuse are we going to be given for WKYT-CBS 27 not having PSIP info for the last 4-5 days(and for who knows how many days more)?

Lex locals couldn't give a crap about the OTA viewers.

Lex locals couldn't give a crap about the OTA viewers.
I disagree with that. Just thinking off the top of my head the problem could be an equipment issue.

I wonder, have you called the station to let them know?

I disagree with that. Just thinking off the top of my head the problem could be an equipment issue.

I wonder, have you called the station to let them know?

(Sam, you might want to read the 'P.S.2' at the bottom first lol)

You do realize you're kinda actually making my point don't you?
Why should 'I' have to tell 'them' their guide info is screwed up? ...answer, I shouldn't.
Don't these stations have any quality control?

WLEX regularly has 'DTV Program' in their guide.
WKYT has had WMYT's PSIP info where their own should have been.
WKYT has for days now 'NO' PSIP info at all.
Lex stations do not provide TVGOS data.
3 of the Network Lex stations only provide 12 hours of PSIP info, ...when there's info there.(WLEX, WKYT and WDKY)

The PSIP info they do provide rarely contains worthwhile info. An example of this is tonight's football game on WTVQ36, the main listing properly states 'College Football', but the description contains 'From Atlanta'. :rolleyes:
Check the description of 'Late Night with Letterman', many times it's just the generic info. Who's on SNL tonight? ...I guess it's a new comedian troupe "No Information Available". :rolleyes: There's so many more, you get the idea.

The exception seems to be KET. Whoopee!

Notice none of the above affects cable and sat viewers? ...just OTA viewers.

I would love to be able to turn my angst towards them into praise, but until they have a decent track record worthy of giving them praise, I stand by my statement, ...Lex locals couldn't give a crap about the OTA viewers.


P.S. Is it just that we are supposed to be happy we're getting a signal? Are we not allowed to desire the same 'modern' features from our local stations that 'them thar big city folk' get? Am I really asking too much here?


P.S.2 Sam, I know you are just trying to be helpful, I hope the above didn't sound like I was 'aiming' it at you, I wasn't. Thanks for at least responding. :)

Gtown-

Let's say you have a favorite burger joint... you REALLY like their burgers. You go to the restaurant and order a burger and fries. They give you your order, you open it up and there's no fries. Are you not going to say something? Are you going to go on an internet message board and say "Burger joint doesn't care about their customers"?

Blanket statements like the one you made are one of my pet peeves. On to your post...

Why should 'I' have to tell 'them' their guide info is screwed up? ...answer, I shouldn't.
Don't these stations have any quality control?No, you shouldn't have to tell the station. But by calling the station, one of three things is going to happen...
1) The station (not knowing about the problem) says "Thank you", we'll look into it.
2) The station (knowing about the problem) says "Thank you, we're looking into the problem and are trying to fix it." (In case you didn't know, not EVERY problem is an easy fix.
3) The station (after looking at their receiver) says we're getting the information here, but we've had problems with receiver XXX-XXX." (which you happen to have).

Now, granted, #3 is a stretch, but possible.
WLEX regularly has 'DTV Program' in their guide.
Aside from that week when NBC programming was listed as 'DTV Program', when else has LEX REGULARLY had PSIP problems. (see there's that blanket statement again).


WKYT has for days now 'NO' PSIP info at all.

See above

Lex stations do not provide TVGOS data.

I'm guessing this is a $$ issue (licensing the TVGOS data). Since PSIP (supposedly) takes care of this, why should the stations spend more on it?


3 of the Network Lex stations only provide 12 hours of PSIP info, ...when there's info there.(WLEX, WKYT and WDKY)
You know how you get that "black" screen for a moment when changing channels? Part of that is your tuner downloading all the PSIP info. The more PSIP info put out, the longer that delay is. Maybe that's good for you, but as for me, I'd like as little delay as I can get.

The PSIP info they do provide rarely contains worthwhile info. An example of this is tonight's football game on WTVQ36, the main listing properly states 'College Football', but the description contains 'From Atlanta'.
Check the description of 'Late Night with Letterman', many times it's just the generic info. Who's on SNL tonight? ...I guess it's a new comedian troupe "No Information Available". There's so many more, you get the idea.
You do realize that in all three examples you provided, the local station is at the mercy of what information the network sends?

As far as the cable/sat subscribers not being affected, that's because those providers STRIP off the stations PSIP and insert their own.

And before you think I'm picking on you, I agree you should be able to get the PSIP data. Like I said earlier, blanket statements are a pet peeve of mine.

Watching the US Open since D* has activated the HD lil in my area (I now have a stable signal from WKYT) has been enlightening and also discouraging. Apparently the 720p downconverting WKYT is doing on the 1080i image is of relatively poor quality. Score graphics and background texts are obviously blurred and less distinct than with the unaltered signal from OTA Bristol, Knoxville, as well as WYMT from Hazard. The player's faces are blurred as well especially on the long shots. In theory, high quality 720p conversion of 1080i should be nearly indistinguishable from the unaltered image. However, that's obviously not the case here. FYI I'm watching on a 110 inch screen from around 15 ft away so this may be more obvious to me than others here.

Aside from that week when NBC programming was listed as 'DTV Program', when else has LEX REGULARLY had PSIP problems. (see there's that blanket statement again).
It's 5:42 as I type this, go look at WLEX's PSIP 'prime time' info at 8:30 and beyond. :rolleyes:


More detailed response/rebuttal to follow, I just hoped you would get to see part of the proof of my 'blanket statement' in action.
Wait, I'm supposed to call 'them' too huh? :cool:

It's 5:42 as I type this, go look at WLEX's PSIP 'prime time' info at 8:30 and beyond. :rolleyes:


More detailed response/rebuttal to follow, I just hoped you would get to see part of the proof of my 'blanket statement' in action.
Wait, I'm supposed to call 'them' too huh? :cool:
I'll tell you what, *I'LL* let them know. Feel better?

A 110 inch screen?

Damn!:eek:

FYI I'm watching on a 110 inch screen from around 15 ft away so this may be more obvious to me than others here.

Nah ... you can tell the problem just fine on a well tuned 50" CRT RPTV :)

And you could tell the problem way back in late summer/fall 2002, when they first started doing it.

... Not to be a broken record about it ... or anything. :D

I know they've (WKYT) been doing it a while but it hits closer now for me with the addition of D* HD LIL.

I suppose I'm hoping someone at WKYT is paying attention and it seems worth mentioning from time to time.

I know they've (WKYT) been doing it a while but it hits closer now for me with the addition of D* HD LIL.

I suppose I'm hoping someone at WKYT is paying attention and it seems worth mentioning from time to time.

I assume the white space issue (or lack thereof) has finally come home to roost?

The solutions are:
1) Kill CWKYT and Radar (ain't gonna happen.)
2) Invest in two additional encoders and fiber feeds to the cable and DBS PoP(s) ... (ever so slightly more likely than option 1.)
3) Invest in the super-deluxe-magic-fairy-dust next gen HD encoder that will really fix the problem (honest. :) ) (More likely than 1 or 2 but the effective BW gain will just get chewed up by mobile apps.)
4) Stick fingers in ears and hum loudly ... la, la, la, la.

Seriously, at this point, the vast majority of the DMA will never know what they're missing.

PS: Don't even ask me about the "DD5.1" misadventures ...

This is in no way my field of expertise. Going back and reading some of the past posts regarding WKYT downgrading their signal, I didn't notice anything because I haven't watched anything on CBS all summer. For the past year (until recently) I had Louisville locals via D*. The CBS prime time shows look GREAT on WLKY. Recently, since D* provides Lexington HD locals, I "moved" back. Like I said, I haven't watched anything on WKYT and really paid attention to it since the new season of shows hasn't started. I went to WKYT this evening and I can definitely see the difference in clarity during an HD broadcast. To me, it just looks "OK" but not great. You don't get that "WOW" factor. What a shame. I am almost sorry I "moved" back to Lex locals

To me, it just looks "OK" but not great. You don't get that "WOW" factor. What a shame. I am almost sorry I "moved" back to Lex locals

Well at least NBC and ABC (to a lesser extent) should look better to you.

It's a bit of a toss up between WHAS and WTVQ.

I think WLEX looks the best, followed by WTVQ, then WKYT. Can't comment on WDKY as I haven't watched Hell's Kitchen yet. It's DVR'd.

In Louisville I thought the BEST quality was WLKY CBS prime time....Followed by NBC, and Fox and WHAS ....Sorry, don't have all the call letters memorized.

Why can Knoxville and Bristol have a standalone CW affiliate and we can't? :(


Does anyone know if CWKYT is doing anything during prime time CW showings? The reason I asked, is that I DVR'd Smallville the other night, and while it certainly isn't HD quality, to me it looked better than SD

Does anyone know if CWKYT is doing anything during prime time CW showings? The reason I asked, is that I DVR'd Smallville the other night, and while it certainly isn't HD quality, to me it looked better than SD

There's a good chance that they're still using the HD network feed, but center cutting it and down-converting it to 4:3 @ 480i.

There's a good chance that they're still using the HD network feed, but center cutting it and down-converting it to 4:3 @ 480i.Based on my recording of Supernatural last night they are just sending the 4:3 frame of a 16:9 image (which might be what you said). Text was cut off at the right and left edges and certain scenes had oddly cut centering.

I made it through the opening credit before I turned it off.. I could not stand watching the show this way.

I hate what Lexington has done to the CW feed.

Based on my recording of Supernatural last night they are just sending the 4:3 frame of a 16:9 image (which might be what you said). Text was cut off at the right and left edges and certain scenes had oddly cut centering.

I made it through the opening credit before I turned it off.. I could not stand watching the show this way.

I hate what Lexington has done to the CW feed.Perhaps they could do a 16:9 SD subchannel instead? Not many stations do it right now but I think more should. Trip has a list of stations doing it now:

http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=widesd

Based on my recording of Supernatural last night they are just sending the 4:3 frame of a 16:9 image (which might be what you said). Text was cut off at the right and left edges and certain scenes had oddly cut centering.

Yep. Exactly.

Perhaps they could do a 16:9 SD subchannel instead? Not many stations do it right now but I think more should. Trip has a list of stations doing it now:

They actually did that for a few weeks, but I guess somebody must have complained about those darned black bars. ;)

Yeah

I watched Supernatural last night too. I was used to watching it all last season on WBKI via D* HD. Surely they will try to upgrade this problem in the near future. WKYT used to look REALLY GREAT. It has a more slightly soft/blurry look now. What a shame.

WKYT used to look REALLY GREAT.

LOL ... yeah for about a month or two back in summer/fall of 2002 (well at least while their encoder was working.) :D

Anyone else notice WLEX had a subchannel "pop up" today? They only had color bars & tone up, gone now. Anyone got any scoop on this?

Hopefully nothing, they have the best pic in town.

Anything on WKYT going to digital 36? If they don't get it, channel 34 would be good since WBKI is off of it.

34 doesn't work due to WCET in Cincinnati.

As of this moment, the WKYT filing is in the "NPRM" stage at the FCC. This means that it is now open for public comments. After this comment period ends, the channel change will be granted, unless there is some opposition that makes one or more valid points. (I've seen very, very few of these channel change petitions get denied.)

- Trip

It is a real shame to get quality in CW programming in Lexington one must utilize the Internet with a broadband connection to pull down the H.264 MKV file and play back on their media center PC displayed on their HDTV set with 5.1 audio. How is one to see local advertisements that help pay to run the station? WKYT should have thought about this. ;) We want the best.. not some chopped-up half-breed image!

I do still record the SD versions of CWKYT programming if I "have" to see it live or close to it (to avoid spoilers). WBKI is not that reliable for me in Winchester. It almost never will lock-on until after 11pm each night, unless there is storm activity to the west in Louisville. I've noticed a correlation between storms in that area enhancing the range of their signal to bounce more east. Of course I might be able to tune them easier if the antenna were not in the attic, but I have a fear of heights and my wife won't allow our house to have one mounted on the roof anyway. Unfortunately I think the neighbors would frown upon it also since it would stick out like a sore thumb with my house being in the middle of the street with the tallest crest.

I watched Vampire Diaries and it was depressing pic quality! Oh well, the sound was good.

It is a real shame to get quality in CW programming in Lexington one must utilize the Internet...

It's a similar situation in Cincinnati. Fortunately after June 12, the CW affiliate in Dayton (WBDT) boosted power and now most of the northern metro area can get the CW in HD.

WBKI is coming in loud and clear in Winchester right now. Look at the radar map pattern at the moment. It supports my propagation theory for WBKI signal originating in Campbellsville reaching Winchester. :)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_J12S4xTAjFM/SrcKNHAVo5I/AAAAAAAAhek/0t2gN_hdFp8/s576/10629_1239940919889_1270272307_701616_1503693_n.jpg

Also interesting that the shape of the radar and the topographic details make it look like Super Mario is throwing a fireball over Kentucky. :D

Now why this type of pattern can never coincide with primetime TV is a mystery to me. If it would happen at primetime I could watch CW in high definition again. :)

Now why this type of pattern can never coincide with primetime TV is a mystery to me. If it would happen at primetime I could watch CW in high definition again. :)

Or you could try recovering the 20dB of signal strength that you're losing with your attic mount. ;) ... Just sayin' :)

It's been going on forever, but after some comparisons with WLKY and some experimentation with surround mode settings, I'm now pretty sure that WKYT is juicing up the LFE channel by at least 10dB. I haven't quite figured out what is going on with 2.0 sources (Letterman,) but it sounds like the bass is getting dumped into the LFE which apparently adds 10dB (or more.) Letterman almost sounds normal if I have my STB downmix to 2ch PCM.

I guess no one at the station has an actual HT setup at home.

Not to doubt you, but my LFE speaker has its own volume control that my 3yo likes to play with.:D

Not to doubt you, but my LFE speaker has its own volume control that my 3yo likes to play with.:D

LOL ... reason #501 to not have little people running about the HT room. :)

Argh.

For some reason, WLEX's info on D* has my DVR ready to capture the premiere of Law & Order ... tomorrow night. I caught it in time to catch the last 45 minutes.

Something is off with the audio. Sounds like the volume is cranked a bit too much on the center channel.

Wonder what's on WTVQ right now and tonight? ....hmmmm I guess 'I'll' have to call 'them' and inform them of their failed PSIP info huh? :cool:

You sure our local OTA doesn't originate from Anaheim or Orlando?
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E....

:rolleyes:

My guess is you'd stand a better chance of seeing PSIP information if you called them than griping on a message board.

My guess is you'd stand a better chance of seeing PSIP information if you called them than griping on a message board.
Sam, Sam, Sam... 'my guess'... is that you seem to be personally tied into one or more of the Lex locals engineers. A friend?, a co-worker?, a relative?, ...stalker?
You seem to take 'Lex locals' criticism rather to heart. President of the fan club maybe?
You're actually part of the reason I feel compelled to post such events. You showed doubt in previous posts regarding Lex locals failures to the point of asking for proof. I merely provided 'more' proof.

And what if another member here was questioning the missing PSIP info and wanted confirmation? Are we not supposed to post the failures? Or would you just like this thread to be only about the sucesses so as to make your buds look better?

I'm still truly amazed that you feel the viewers of the local broadcast station should play the role of 'quality control'.
Would(do) the Station Managers subscribe to that? ...or might they feel that that best fell under the role of his or her station's engineer(s)?

OK, Ok, maybe the 'Mickey Mouse' claim was a bit off, ...perhaps I should of used the 'Petticoat Junction' analogy instead. :eek:

You seem to take 'Lex locals' criticism rather to heart. President of the fan club maybe?
You're actually part of the reason I feel compelled to post such events. You showed doubt in previous posts regarding Lex locals failures to the point of asking for proof. I merely provided 'more' proof.And you seem to take problems at the Lexington locals as a personal offense to OTA viewers. I guess the GMs and Engineers sit around all week thinking "what can we do to piss off viewers? I know, let's mess up PSIP!".


And what if another member here was questioning the missing PSIP info and wanted confirmation? Are we not supposed to post the failures? Or would you just like this thread to be only about the sucesses so as to make your buds look better?Plenty of people have posted failures here (read about the signal quality of CBS/CW HD). Again, you seem to take the failures as a personal affront.


I'm still truly amazed that you feel the viewers of the local broadcast station should play the role of 'quality control'.
Would(do) the Station Managers subscribe to that? ...or might they feel that that best fell under the role of his or her station's engineer(s)?
Never said that. Thought you would want to get the problem fixed. I wonder about all those people who do call the stations because they have audio problems or their signal keeps dropping. I guess they should just live with their problems and wait for the station to notice.

Gee, I wonder how people ever managed to survive without EPG's, PSIP, TiVo, DTV ... DVRs, VCRs, cable, DBS ... et al ... :rolleyes:

And you seem to take problems at the Lexington locals as a personal offense to OTA viewers. I guess the GMs and Engineers sit around all week thinking "what can we do to piss off viewers? I know, let's mess up PSIP!".OK Sarah.(Palin) Where did I ever infer that the engineers were 'contriving' malicious ways to "piss off viewers"? Quite a 'Palin like' extropolation there dude. Next you'll be acussing me of wanting an Lex engineers 'death panel' huh? :rolleyes:
What I 'have' inferred, ...no check that, what I have outright claimed, is that many(not all**) of the Lex engineers have been complacent with the PSIP info from the get go, because as long as the 'big boys'(cable and sat providers) have a signal, it appears that that is what they consider a success. PSIP OTA info is treated as a 'bonus' that we should be happy to get at all.

Plenty of people have posted failures here (read about the signal quality of CBS/CW HD). Again, you seem to take the failures as a personal affront. Um no, I take the failures as just that, lack of job performance. And because I have pretty much stated that in my posts, it's 'you' that have taken it personally. You seem to think that these engineers are infallible and will solve things like PSIP guide failures just by making a phone call. Get real. See below.


Never said that. Thought you would want to get the problem fixed. I wonder about all those people who do call the stations because they have audio problems or their signal keeps dropping. I guess they should just live with their problems and wait for the station to notice.And you would of known if you had followed your own laughable advice, ...that when you called the WTVQ switchboard on 'both' Saturday and Sunday, that you would of connected not to an actual live person, but a frickin recording stating that you have called outside 'normal' business hours!
And leaving a message made no more difference than just waiting for the engineer to arrive this a.m. Yes that's correct, the PSIP info 'magically' reappeared this a.m. right about the same time 'business' hours began. Wow, so attentive.
The timing of the fixed WTVQ guide this a.m. basically just reaffirmed what I have been saying all along, that the engineers at all but a couple of the Lex locals** treat the PSIP guide info as third class service rather than an integral part of the 'complete' signal.
(**KET and WDKY seem to have attentive engineers who value quality control at the source and not rely on 'phone calls' from the end viewer.)

What if the cable or sat providers had blocks of guide info missing as often as the Lex locals? You think that the cable/sat viewers would be understanding? Or do you think they would be up in arms demanding it to be fixed?
Better yet, what if the cable/sat providers treated thier guide info the same way you think the Lex engineers should be allowed to treat the OTA PSIP info, which is to allow the end user to be their quality control? And then when a problem arises with it, it's just casually fixed when they get into the office during 'regular business' hours? Get real.

Gee, I wonder how people ever managed to survive without EPG's, PSIP, TiVo, DTV ... DVRs, VCRs, cable, DBS ... et al ... :rolleyes:Which is exactly the point. You make it sound like it needs to be something that is required to be 'survivable' in order for it to be 'worthy' of the proper attention it deserves. :rolleyes:

Gtown, really, I'm tired of arguing with you.

I tried to present what MIGHT be a cause of the PSIP problems (equipment failure), you didn't want anything to do with it.

I suggested a way to try to get the problem fixed (letting the station know), you didn't want anything to do with it.

I tried to educate you on what happens in a television station, you didn't care.

I wasn't trying to take responsibility off the stations engineers and put it onto the viewers. I just try to give those engineers the benefit of the doubt.

If you believe the local stations don't care about the OTA viewers (because of occasional PSIP problems), I'm not going to change your mind.

Go ahead and criticize all you want. I won't stop you.

So, I hear that KET is changing the subchannel lineup on October 1. KET1 will apparently become HD 24/7 and become just "KET." KET-KY will become a 24/7 network as well. No word on the -4 subchannel.

Anyone hear anything more concrete?

- Trip

Plans are to make the switch at or near 09:00 on 10/1/09.

KET-ED will no longer exist and may disappear sooner as the new channel maps are loaded into the TSP gear at each TX site.


William

Plans are to make the switch at or near 09:00 on 10/1/09.

KET-ED will no longer exist and may disappear sooner as the new channel maps are loaded into the TSP gear at each TX site.


William

Ah ... I guess that explains the wacky guide data for the Ken Burns NP series. I've been scratching my head all weekend. :confused:

With the switch, is there any chance D* will add you guys into the local-into-local HD package?

I don't know about adding us to the locals packages. Been a little busy with the prep for the switchover...


P.S. WKLE is or will be down for tower work today.

Here's a shocker... no PSIP guide info on WKYT- 27. :rolleyes:

BTW, the brilliant idea of 'simply calling them', gets you in a loop of "Transferring to an attendant, one moment please".
And I called at 5:45pm, the recording changed around 5:56 stating you are calling outside of the normal business hours. :rolleyes:

Here's one for you, call 859.299.0411(from their 'contact us' web page) and select '8' for 'other' departments and see where that gets you. Hint, can we say 'loop' again?
Brilliant attentive service there.

'Finally' got through to a person at WKYT who knew what 'PSIP' guide info was, this after calling yesterday and getting thrown in loops going no where.
This after leaving a concise informative after hours message to the station's Operations Manager, which should have resulted in the PSIP stream restoration at the very least 'soon after' first thing this a.m.
But all it did was confirm what I've been saying, there is a relative lack of quality control regarding the PSIP info at 'some'(in fairness 'not all') of the Lex locals.
The last phone call did indeed result in the WKYT PSIP info restoration, but that just proved that it was as simple as possibly rebooting a required component.
Should it really take a phone call from a viewer to inform the station of their failed PSIP stream? Or perhaps they should proactively check said stream on a regular basis so as to minimize acceptable downtime?

Should it really take a phone call from a viewer to inform the station of their failed PSIP stream? Or perhaps they should proactively check said stream on a regular basis so as to minimize acceptable downtime?

I think you're just running into the updated version of "we forgot to throw the HD switch" issue from the early DTV days.

WTVQ was famous for forgetting to flip the HD switch back on during LOST for many years. I think I heard somewhere they got some upgrades, so hope one of them is an automatic bot that will flip it for them. Can they overlay emergency info on the screen over HD yet (not that I like that either or anything)?

On another note I am testing Windows 7 Media Center Edition and it is working quite well with our locals. I actually have better KET program information on the subchannels than I did for Windows XP Media Center 2005. One thing you may not all know is that the guide info for Windows Media Center Edition (MCE) is actually from Tribune Media Services (zap2it.com), so PSIP doesn't matter at all to it. One caveat to Microsoft doing it this way is that fringe stations that sometimes tune-in (i.e WBKI-DT for me) don't have any program listing guide info because the channel falls outside the DMA for Lexington. That's always been an annoyance because there is not a way to map specific WBKI programming into to the channel in Media Center from the guide provider. You can map CWKYT guide info, but it only works for primetime listings as the two channels show different programs (GemTV versus old episodes of Southpark late at night, for example). Anyhow it is nice to see whatever changes that happened with the introduction of Windows 7 and new Media Center have fixed guide listings for the KET subchannels. Whatever William is switching around, I hope will not impact that since the guide is finally represented for all of KET's channels. It might be broken again after today unless Tribune keeps up with those changes. We'll see what happens.

One caveat to Microsoft doing it this way is that fringe stations that sometimes tune-in (i.e WBKI-DT for me) don't have any program listing guide info because the channel falls outside the DMA for Lexington. That's always been an annoyance because there is not a way to map specific WBKI programming into to the channel in Media Center from the guide provider. You can map CWKYT guide info, but it only works for primetime listings as the two channels show different programs (GemTV versus old episodes of Southpark late at night, for example).

You just need to use a different zip code. If you use 40383 you will get listings for all of the Louisville and Lexington stations, including WBKI.

You just need to use a different zip code. If you use 40383 you will get listings for all of the Louisville and Lexington stations, including WBKI.

I'm not sure that will work as I am using a Hauppauge HVR-1600 that has one tuner hooked up to Time-Warner cable and the other to my OTA antenna system for HD locals. If I change the zip code, then the cable operator for 40383 (whoever that may be) channels won't correlate to the Time-Warner Cable channel designations, right? I think I tried that on WinXP MCE2005 and found that to be the case (or maybe the other provider was missing channels that Time Warner operated, so I didn't have guide info for those channels.. don't remember right off now). Microsoft just needs to allow the user to use multiple providers and allow the user to cherry-pick and map which ones pertain to the channels they receive one way or another. I dabbled in some registry manipulations when the digital switchover happened because physical channels like WDKY changed to 31 and MCE was too stupid to realize it, so I had to change it behind the scenes in the Windows registry since Tribune wasn't fixing it for MCE to use properly.

Does anyone else find the WKYT bug to be an annoying addition to the screen?

Yes.

The beveled look makes it stand out too much IMO.

I think WDKY has the best logo on the screen (if you HAVE to have one) because it is nice and small.

Does anyone else find the WKYT bug to be an annoying addition to the screen?

Yes.

Why do stations even need one at all?

Ego. They claim it is branding, but really it is just ego.

Ego. They claim it is branding, but really it is just ego.

I suspect it might have something to do with making sure they have a clear copyright claim through all of the Letterman fiasco. :D

Ego. They claim it is branding, but really it is just ego.
It is *ALL* branding. Think about how many different providers the local stations are on... Dish, Direct, Insight, TW, Joe & Bob's Cable, etc. The satellite companies at least remap the channel numbers. The cable companies? For Insight 18 is 8, 27 is 9, 36 is 10 (to say nothing of their HD tier). I'm pretty sure the other cable companies do the same thing. So now you've got "Joe Smith" filling out a ratings diary (we're not a metered market yet). So the "higher ups" at the stations feel they need to pound into the viewers heads which station they are watching.

I don't see how ego can factor in.

As far as the "size" of the bug... can't help you there.

As far as the "size" of the bug... can't help you there.

I see even more compression artyfacts on WKYT now. The overlay equipment is doing more damage? When does it end?

My LOTR-EE SD DVDs look better than WKYT's "HD."

I tried to receive WYMT within their FCC service contour and got WDEF 12/Chattanooga instead which is almost 200 miles away! To be able to lock and view this station in WYMT's area indicates a great deal of interference. This happens particularly in the morning until noon. WYMT needs to complain to the FCC. To be able to view WDEF with co channel interference on 12 is extraordinary in the WYMT coverage area.

I tried to receive WYMT within their FCC service contour and got WDEF 12/Chattanooga instead which is almost 200 miles away! To be able to lock and view this station in WYMT's area indicates a great deal of interference. This happens particularly in the morning until noon. WYMT needs to complain to the FCC. To be able to view WDEF with co channel interference on 12 is extraordinary in the WYMT coverage area.

Where are you?

Where are you?

I am in Hawkins County which falls within the WYMT coverage area. Apparently VHF signals travel very well up the east Tennessee River valley.

I tried to receive WYMT within their FCC service contour and got WDEF 12/Chattanooga instead which is almost 200 miles away! To be able to lock and view this station in WYMT's area indicates a great deal of interference. This happens particularly in the morning until noon. WYMT needs to complain to the FCC. To be able to view WDEF with co channel interference on 12 is extraordinary in the WYMT coverage area.

VHF Hi is riddled with co-channel interference among its other issues. It's amazing how so many stations were duped by the too-good-to-be-true phenomenon. Many are now requesting uhf allocations or increases in power.

I doubt WYMT will make any changes, however, nor will WKYT. You can always hope that the station in Chattanooga will.;)

I doubt WYMT will make any changes however nor will WKYT. You can always hope that the station and Chattanooga will.;)

WKYT? The same WKYT that has a petition pending with the FCC to relocate to channel 36?

- Trip

WKYT? The same WKYT that has a petition pending with the FCC to relocate to channel 36?

- Trip


Well, I guess that just tends to support my point doesn't it?:). Sorry I missed that (or forgot can't remember:D).

It won't help with channel 12 unfortunately. Maybe there's hope though. WYMT *might* follow as they are WKYT's "sister station".

The terrain in the area leads me to think nothing will change with WYMT.

- Trip

The terrain in the area leads me to think nothing will change with WYMT.

- Trip

Maybe, but possibly only based on the "perception" of how hi vhf does based on past analog experience. I'm not sure if we know that necessarily holds true with digital at this point. IMO they should go for a "low" uhf assignment.

WKYT seems to be asleep at the wheel 'yet again', PSIP guide info screwed up. :rolleyes:

I am hopeful that WYMT will ask WDEF to change to a directional antenna that will not radiate their signal to the northeast. It would not involve any expensive equipment changes for WYMT. I am sure the antenna change is all that will be needed.

Of course, it would require a very expensive equipment change for WDEF, thus almost guaranteeing it won't happen.

- Trip

I am in Hawkins County which falls within the WYMT coverage area. Apparently VHF signals travel very well up the east Tennessee River valley.

Plus, unless you're in the Eidson or Lee Valley area, I'd say Clinch Mountain knocks enough off the signal to keep you from getting it.

WKYT seems to be asleep at the wheel 'yet again', PSIP guide info screwed up. :rolleyes:

It's confirmed, we the viewers 'are' the quality control for the PSIP data for at least WTVQ(see my posts earlier regarding their dismal response to missing PSIP data) and WKYT.

**************************************
Phone call to WKYT just before 3:00pm Monday: (not verbatim, but extremely close)
(after asking for station engineer)
WKYT: Engineering, this is *****(hidden to save the guilty)
Me: I was wondering if you might have a timeframe for when the guide info will return?
WKYT: um, ah, ...not sure...
Me: Do you know what I'm referring to?
WKYT: um, no not really.
Me: I'm talking about the PSIP guide data. Is there a chance you could connect me with the person who's responsible or perhaps just let them know that it's only showing 'DTV Program'?
WKYT: OH ok, hold on one minute.
(3 minutes later, timed on handset)
WKYT: OK, you're talking about the information that shows what program you're watching right?
Me: Yes and the information for the next 12 hours too.
WKYT: OK, yeah, 'the person' that can fix that is out of the office right now, but when he returns he can download the data and get it working again.
Me: OK thank you.
*****************************

*****************************
And today around 4:00pm:
WKYT: Engineering this *****(hidden to save the guilty).
Me: I was wondering if there was a timeframe for when the PSIP guide data might return?
WKYT: It isn't working?
Me: No
WKYT: How long has it been down?
Me: Approximately 48 hours.
WKYT: Um, OK, I'll take a look at it.
Me: Thank you.
*****************************

And guess what? ...It 'magically' reappeared at around 4:30 today!!

How the hell can they not be monitoring this? Why if it's as easy as rebooting a component or redownloading the data, etc. is this not part of the frequent monitoring process? Especially seeing how there is a known track record of fault with this system?
:rolleyes:



FWIW: WLEX has down a great job of addressing their early shortcomings of erratic PSIP guide data. Not only has the 'DTV Program' listings been greatly reduced***, the guide is typically being populated for 48 hours or more(actually just checked, this being Tuesday, I have guide data going out to Friday 5:00am!!!).
Kudos to WLEX Station Engineer for addressing this. :)

***The current 'DTV Program' listings are mostly for the hours of 3:00am when programing is mainly either 'Early Today' or a rerun of 'Dateline'.

How the hell can they not be monitoring this? Why if it's as easy as rebooting a component or redownloading the data, etc. is this not part of the frequent monitoring process? Especially seeing how there is a known track record of fault with this system?

Because less than half of 10% of the viewers in the DMA need it? And most of them don't even know what it (PSIP) data is????? :rolleyes:

Personally, I'm more concerned with whatever caused the loss of HD signal at WKYT Monday ... I assume it was a bad IRD or LNB. In the old days, that might have gone on for weeks before getting fixed. ;)

... But then again, my guide data goes out 2+ weeks.

Because less than half of 10% of the viewers in the DMA need it? And most of them don't even know what it (PSIP) data is?????

Two items regarding that.
1.) That is exactly what I have been saying, the OTA viewers in Lex are/were 'generally'(WLEX seems to have properly addressed their earlier PSIP issues) being treated as third class viewers(behind cable and sat providers).

2.) It seems I may have to look into the PSIP failings with the FCC. While it probably will be more hassle then effective, it may just be the only way to get the stations to understand the seriousness of their failures.

From a 'Broadcast Engineering' article:
Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) is nothing new. It includes information critical for viewers to know what's on TV and to tune to digital OTA programming in ATSC countries. PSIP information is contained in many systems, and Programming Metadata Communications Protocol (PMCP) was created to enable this data to be easily extracted from these systems and provided to PSIP generators.

It is not news that PSIP is required by the FCC. However, in its Report and Order of Dec. 31, 2007, the FCC seems to have put some teeth into its regulations concerning PSIP.

Beginning May 29, 2008, terrestrial broadcast signals in the United States must include PSIP information that accurately reflects the content being aired. This means either someone must manually update your PSIP generator's event information table (EIT) data — basically the contents of the program grid that appears on viewers' EPGs — or you must implement a system that will do this automatically.

The PSIP data is not a 'feature' that we should be lucky to get, it's required.
It would seem a few Lex stations need to be reminded of that, ...no matter what the numbers of viewers are that 'know' what it is. :rolleyes:


P.S. PSIP data does not 'just' concern those viewers who wish to use it for recording or identifying what's on at a certain time, it also provides program rating data that some parents may wish to use(V-chip, etc.).

I doubt that any broadcaster would consider an OTA viewer as a third class viewer. Why would WDKY or WKYT want to spend over $500,000 to move to UHF and in the process increase their electric bill by $100,000 a year? Cable and satellite providers received the VHF channels just fine. PSIP EPG is required, and WKYT should monitor it and address it when it fails without viewer intervention. I would call the station and ask to speak with the operations manager or general manager before I went to the FCC, and I would make it clear that if the issue is not corrected, that I will contact the FCC. The goal is to have the EPG data as accurate as possible, not to have the station fined. A fine doesn't accomplish anything other than having another position or two eliminated, or some other budget cut that decreases the quality of the station (like killing a new HD camera or HD edit suite). Sure they will be forced to correct the EPG issue, but the overall effect would be negative.

Have any others on this thread experienced "stutter" or frame freezing when watching HD programming on KET channel 46.1 ?

I love watching "Masterpiece Mystery" Sunday evenings, and I watch the feed over-the-air from Georgetown. When the "stutter" starts, I have switched over to 52.1 in Owenton and get the same thing. Then I check the SD feed on Dish satellite and it's there as well.....so if it's not my reception, is KET aware of the problem, if it exist's for others ?

thanks,
Martin in Scott County, KY

I would be interested in the EPG issue being corrected as well. The last two TVs I purchased, I purchased in part because of the TV Guide functionality.

Have any others on this thread experienced "stutter" or frame freezing when watching HD programming on KET channel 46.1 ?

I love watching "Masterpiece Mystery" Sunday evenings, and I watch the feed over-the-air from Georgetown. When the "stutter" starts, I have switched over to 52.1 in Owenton and get the same thing. Then I check the SD feed on Dish satellite and it's there as well.....so if it's not my reception, is KET aware of the problem, if it exist's for others ?

thanks,
Martin in Scott County, KY


It appears to be an issue with Dish receivers (or ones that use their chipset)..

What model do you have?

William

It appears to be an issue with Dish receivers (or ones that use their chipset)..

... And the DirecTV HR10-250 (a.k.a. HD-TiVo)

... and perhaps some older PC cards, although no one seems to have logged in about it this time around.

The PSIP data is not a 'feature' that we should be lucky to get, it's required.
It would seem a few Lex stations need to be reminded of that, ...no matter what the numbers of viewers are that 'know' what it is. :rolleyes:

All I'm saying is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Now that stations are relying on digital alone, and since they've been picked up by cable/satellite, the instances of "oops we forgot to throw the HD switch" have dropped to near zero.

I was watching a bit of CBS from WLKY tonight, and the were instantly aware that something had gone wonky with their audio feed. Unfortunately, their solution was to drop back to the analog SD feed. (Which raises the question: Why the heck is CBS still sending an analog signal?)

CBS isn't, but I know at WDBJ we produced an SD feed in-house. Right off the satellite and through a down-converter as a fall-back.

- Trip

CBS isn't, but I know at WDBJ we produced an SD feed in-house. Right off the satellite and through a down-converter as a fall-back.

- Trip
As a fallback to what? Lets see if I understand this...

Primary: CBS HD satellite reception --> Master Control Switcher --> transmission

Backup: CBS HD satellite reception --> Downconverter --> Switcher --> transmission

Sounds like you're adding parts to the mix.:confused:

"William Smith" - in reply to your question, the stutter or frame freeze is worse on "over-the-air" reception on the Vizio 32" LCD's internal ATSC tuner. I only check the Dish SD feed after checking both the 46.1 broadcast channel, then the 52.1 broadcast channel.

So it's a "broadcast issue" from my side of the fence, but if no one else has reported the problem, then it could be an antenna issue for me......although the signal never breaks up or pixelates.....it just freezes for a moment, then resumes.

"William Smith" - in reply to your question, the stutter or frame freeze is worse on "over-the-air" reception on the Vizio 32" LCD's internal ATSC tuner. I only check the Dish SD feed after checking both the 46.1 broadcast channel, then the 52.1 broadcast channel.

So it's a "broadcast issue" from my side of the fence, but if no one else has reported the problem, then it could be an antenna issue for me......although the signal never breaks up or pixelates.....it just freezes for a moment, then resumes.

Thanks for the response..

Did you have the issue with the HD feed when it was on -3 or did it show up after the switch to -1?

I'll have to check and see what chipset the sets use before I do anything on my end..

I've not had any calls concerning Dish's SD feed... can someeone else verify the problem please?

William

I do not recall having the issue when the HD feed was on -3, but I have definately noticed it once the switch to -1.

I will get the info on the Dish receiver this evening - and check my DVR recordings of the last couple of "Mystery" shows to confirm the stutter was in the recorded SD material as well....and it's not just my last few remaining brain cells playing tricks on me :rolleyes:

As a fallback to what? Lets see if I understand this...

Primary: CBS HD satellite reception --> Master Control Switcher --> transmission

Backup: CBS HD satellite reception --> Downconverter --> Switcher --> transmission

Sounds like you're adding parts to the mix.:confused:

Well, in our case, it's because we couldn't overlay on the HD that we absolutely needed that feed as our "backup" feed, plus we were feeding a separate SD feed to cable.

- Trip

Well, in our case, it's because we couldn't overlay on the HD that we absolutely needed that feed as our "backup" feed, plus we were feeding a separate SD feed to cable.

- Trip
Ahhh, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

[QUOTE=m_vanmeter;17358589]"William Smith" - in reply to your question, the stutter or frame freeze is worse on "over-the-air" reception on the Vizio 32" LCD's internal ATSC tuner. I only check the Dish SD feed after checking both the 46.1 broadcast channel, then the 52.1 broadcast channel.

I have a 2 year old 32 inch Vizio so maybe that's why WLEX's OTA signal tends to freeze and stay that way till I switch channels and back ...I know I tried everything else trying to fix the problem...is there anyway to fix the ATSC tuner ? ...

Check your signal strengths. I'm guessing you're right on the "cliff". You may need to tweak your antenna a little bit.

I believe you are correct. I must be right on the threshold of enough signal strength for the ATSC tuner to properly decode the digital signal. Well, maybe the weather will hold long enough to get some antenna work in.

Thank you everyone for the comments and suggestions.


Martin

WKYT's move from 13 to 36 has been approved by the FCC.

- Trip

WKYT's move from 13 to 36 has been approved by the FCC.

- Trip

That's good to know :) ...I have my VHF antenna pointed in the opposite direction of WKYT so I'll be able to pick up WLJC ...WKYT still comes through in that set up except during periods of windy and stormy weather when I need to go out and turn the mast when we want to watch something on CBS ...glad that hassle will be ending soon ...

WKYT's move from 13 to 36 has been approved by the FCC.

- Trip

Are they planning to retain 13 for CWKYT and put the channel back in HD?

No. The FCC is not accepting petitions for the addition of new allotments at this time, and likely will not be doing so in the forseeable future.

- Trip

I guess if Lexington wanted to ever have a new TV station, channel 13 would be a good choice ;)

So what's up with WTVQ's signal ATM?

Hope we don't have to wait for someone to 'get into the office' ...again.

So what's up with WTVQ's signal ATM?

Hope we don't have to wait for someone to 'get into the office' ...again.

Looks like someone made it 'into the office' finally. :cool:
'Miraculously' it's back on this a.m. As of 4:00am the signal was 'still' black as could be. I guess a 12 hour block of no signal is 'acceptable' to WTVQ.
But it's ok, cable and sat never lost signal, which of course is their main concern. :rolleyes:

You would think if like 'someone' else around here says how they(the Lex locals) truly do care about the OTA viewers, that a better source of contact information for these stations(spec. Station Engineers) would be available.
Contact information that includes actual phone numbers which would actually be answered by a live person(24/7) who can then contact the appropriate responsible party.

These Lex locals truly don't have 'anybody' at all on premises 24/7? ...seriously? :rolleyes:

Only conclusion here can be, ..."What we don't 'have to' hear about, we don't 'have to' fix until 'we' decide when we 'want to' get around to it".


M-I-C----K-E-Y M-O-U..........


P.S. Is a station required to file such an event with the FCC? (12+ hours no signal)

Umm. Their OTA signal was fine last night. Didn't have any dropouts at all. Maybe it is something specific to your setup.

Umm. Their OTA signal was fine last night. Didn't have any dropouts at all. Maybe it is something specific to your setup.

3 different tuners, 2 different antenna's, I'll stick to my observations.
You're not going by sat or cable observation are you?

Nope. Going by my OTA tuner card. I believe WTVQ's HD DirecTV feed is OTA as well though.

It was out Friday night, fine the next am. At least at my house, using OTA

Nope. Going by my OTA tuner card. I believe WTVQ's HD DirecTV feed is OTA as well though.
EVERYONE's feed to Direct is OTA (the only exception is Direct gets a straight downconverted feed from LEX for their SD subscribers).

I believe the only company getting a non-OTA feed would be Insight (fiber from the stations).

I just checked my Ugly Betty recording from Friday (9pm, WTVQ OTA) and it's so full of drop-outs it's unwatchable.

I just checked my Ugly Betty recording from Friday (9pm, WTVQ OTA) and it's so full of drop-outs it's unwatchable.

Roughly what area are you at?

It's beginning to sound like a significant signal degradation issue more so than a complete loss of signal.
Those closer to the tower seem to have received enough of a signal to not notice, yet those of us further out weren't receiving enough of the signal to lock onto it.

Still, it would be nice that if the stations truly wanted to hear from viewers regarding after hour issues, that they would provide a phone number that was actually answered and by someone who could contact the appropriate responsible party.

Still, it would be nice that if the stations truly wanted to hear from viewers regarding after hour issues, that they would provide a phone number that was actually answered and by someone who could contact the appropriate responsible party.

You should be able to reach each station's news desk after hours. Even WDKY has a news desk, and I know for sure that they (Marvin and Jennifer) pass messages along to their engineers.

Television stations are permitted by the FCC to have equipment outages of all sorts. The outages are logged by master control, and some of this information is required in the station log. Transmitter outages longer than 10 days duration require FCC notification.

I highly doubt any station in Lexington would ignore their transmitter or OTA viewers during sweeps. My guess is that they value their jobs, and would like to keep them. If you would like to talk to a WTVQ engineer, call them during business hours and ask to speak with the chief engineer. If the receptionist gives you a hard time, mention that you've noticed a problem with the PSIP data and you believe that the WTVQ broadcast does not comply with the ATSC standard as required by the FCC, you will be connected to the CE pronto :)

You should be able to reach each station's news desk after hours. Even WDKY has a news desk, and I know for sure that they (Marvin and Jennifer) pass messages along to their engineers.Main number got the same old "You've called outside business hours...", the WTVQ 'Breaking News' number, rang and rang and rang....

Television stations are permitted by the FCC to have equipment outages of all sorts. The outages are logged by master control, and some of this information is required in the station log. Transmitter outages longer than 10 days duration require FCC notification.Fair enough.

I highly doubt any station in Lexington would ignore their transmitter or OTA viewers during sweeps. My guess is that they value their jobs, and would like to keep them. If you would like to talk to a WTVQ engineer, call them during business hours and ask to speak with the chief engineer. If the receptionist gives you a hard time, mention that you've noticed a problem with the PSIP data and you believe that the WTVQ broadcast does not comply with the ATSC standard as required by the FCC, you will be connected to the CE pronto :)'Jerry' said today he was unaware of any outages but would look into it(?). He stated that if there had been an outage(?), he would of been notified(?). He undoubtedly was referring to their bread and butter(cable and sats), because when I asked how an ordinary viewer would do just that, he said to call the main number. :(

Being that my call to him wasn't to dump on him directly(that's what this forum is for :) ), but rather just to see if indeed there was some sort of signal outage, I left it at 'OK thanks, just thought you might like to know".

^^^ There's also the *possibility* that there was something unusual was going on with signal propagation.

Roughly what area are you at?
I'm in Winchester. I'm no expert but it looks like the signal dropped every ~10 seconds. One spoken line would be completely fine, but with the next you might only get the last word.

Psst: DirecTV has added KET-HD (KET-1) to the local-into-local HD package.

I just talked to the WDKY engineers about the problems with audio via the satellite providers.

WDKY has set up an engineering hotline to help with notification of problems that master control might miss. WDKY master control is really only able to monitor the OTA signal (not the satellite and cable systems) so WDKY set up this number: 859-967-1635 If you leave a message the phone system sends a text message to the chief engineer. Please don't abuse this, or I'm sure it will go away :)

WLEX launched 18.2 today. Wazoo sports is now up 24/7 in Lexington. I believe it's on a WHAS subchannel in Louisville.

WLEX launched 18.2 today. Wazoo sports is now up 24/7 in Lexington. I believe it's on a WHAS subchannel in Louisville.

Thus endeth the last pristine 1080i in the market. RIP HDTV, we hardly knew you.

Thus endeth the last pristine 1080i in the market. RIP HDTV, we hardly knew you.
Actually, "pristine" HD has been gone for over a month. WLEX "took away" bandwidth from 18.1 in early October. The "extra" bandwidth (what 18.2 now occupies) wasn't allocated to see what kind of quality loss their would be. So, have you noticed any degradation of quality in the last month?

People still watch NBC to be able to notice?

People still watch NBC to be able to notice?

At least for Sunday Night Football,yeah.

So, have you noticed any degradation of quality in the last month?

LOL ... any answer I could give to that question is now forever tainted. But yes, I've had the feeling that something's been "off." (Action scenes in Heroes a/o Trama, for instance.) However, due to the World Series induced backlog on my DVR's, I haven't really cared to spend time to investigate technical issues. Heck, I almost didn't notice that DirecTV had added KET-HD ... :)

But yes, I've had the feeling that something's been "off." (Action scenes in Heroes a/o Trama, for instance.) Well now you know what it is.:D

Is the Lexington stations in HD on dish network? I don't see my parents getting anything OTA in 41301, but for two stations.

Thanks!

Yes. All Lexington stations (possible exception KET, but I think they're up too) are in HD on both Dish & Direct.

The main stations are all up, but not the subchannels.

WKYT-DT 36 application is now on the FCC website http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WKYT

I noticed the quality lacking on WLEX too and felt something was "off" about them also. I watch Heroes and NBC Nightly news. What a shame! As I've said before any changes to broadcasts here are geared more toward $ports than any other reason (KET excluded). My CW in HD is gone because of sports and now the pristine quality of NBC programming is knocked down several notches thanks to sports yet again. Quantity over quality! :(

Edit: WLEX has been glitchy randomly for me lately. Maybe the subchannel introduction is why.

My CW in HD is gone because of sports

To be fair, calling 720p CWKYT (27.2) "HD" was always a bit of a stretch.

Frankly, the same goes for WKYT's main channel.

I watched part of an old UK/UL football game on 18.2 the first day or two the channel started. It was about like watching a bad clip on Youtube - very pixelated whenever there was any motion. I think a SPORTS related channel might be a bad choice for a subchannel as it requires so much bandwidth to look decent - which in turn robs picture quality from the main channel.

I agree, it looked bad. WHAS-DT 11.3 has the samething and it looks a lot better! But I am sure the main channel will look crappy now.

Leave it to one of the Lex locals to provide us with this paradox.
We typically expect to see picture degradation if we are viewing programs previously aired on broadcast TV on a pc, but now we have TV broadcast programs with quality typical of a web broadcast on a pc.

They should drop their little 'experiment' on the sub channel, and just provide the Wazoo crap on their web site.(you'd get same or even possibly 'better' quality on the web lol)

Surprise surprise, OK not really... WKYT's primetime schedule is populated with 'DTV Program'.
Think I'll call the SE, oops, no wait, that will just result in the same ol' "Hi, you've called outside normal...." :rolleyes:

Maybe a visit to WKYT is in order. Get your satisfaction.

I am sure this has been complained about before, but is there anything we can do about Fox Sports South and Fox Sports Ohio? The information on those TV Guides are switched.

It really sucks when I want to record something on Tivo. I want to record something on FSS and the program info tells the Tivo to record on FSO.

The local stations won't have anything to do w/FSS or FSO. You can check with your cable/satellite provider, or directly w/FSS/FSO.

WLEX scheduled maintenance atm?
Both OTA and sat out.


Edit: Still out at 4:10pm

Edit #2: Just checked their web page(4:12pm):
(Posted at 2:36pm on WLEX web page)
Technical Difficulties
Posted 1 hour 29 minutes 28 seconds ago by Taylor Vinson

We are currently experiencing difficulties with our over-the-air digital signal. LEX 18 has crews working to repair the problem, and we will have it resolved as soon as possible. You can still catch LEX 18 News by watching us through most local cable providers. We appreciate your patience.

WLEX scheduled maintenance atm?
Both OTA and sat out.


Edit: Still out at 4:10pm

Edit #2: Just checked their web page(4:12pm):
(Posted at 2:36pm on WLEX web page)

It was a color test pattern on Time Warner Cable in Winchester and the OTA was definitely dead too. I went to watch the Nightly News at 6:30pm and was surprised the ATSC capture board in my Media Center wasn't getting a signal. I had been pulling RG6 through the walls to tidy up this weekend and thought I messed up something, so I switched over to TWC-analog and saw only the test pattern. I guess that confirms that TWC gets their feed directly over the air.

Signal level is slightly less too.
Before Sunday I would 'bounce' between 91-96 on my DTVPalDVR signal level indicator.
Today it's bouncing between 84-88.
A bit early to tell for sure if it's related to Sunday's outtage or just normal signal variations.
Though it would certainly seem to be related to the outtage. I can't really remember ever receiving WLEX much below 89-90.
WTVQ 36(D40) is at it's typical 98-100.

Gosh, I wonder what's on WKYT tonight?
Certainly not going to find out from the PSIP guide data, it's missing ....'AGAIN'. :cool:

Yes I called, no it didn't do any good.
If you call after hours you have no choice to leave a messge that will result in timely action.
Even after I called the 'newsroom' number on their web site, 'Jimmy' checked to see if there was anybody in engineering, ...surprise! ....they're gone for the night and can be reached at 9:00am the next day.

'Once again', ...where's the fricking quality control?

:rolleyes:

I guess that confirms that TWC gets their feed directly over the air.Only two organizations get direct feeds from WLEX... Insight Cable (HD & SD) and DirecTV (SD only). All other cable companies along with Dish Network rely on OTA for their feed.

From what I've seen (and I could be wrong) the Lexington stations all feed Insight with fiber, and everyone else OTA. The exception is WLEX, who leases space to DirecTV for the local collection point. I've been to the Insight and Time Warner (Richmond) headends as well as the DirecTV collection point, but it has been awhile so my info may be dated. I'm not sure why DirecTV would only take the SD feed from WLEX, doesn't DirecTV use a Sencore receiver and HDSDI to feed their encoder? wouldn't it be easy for WLEX to give DirecTV an HDSDI or ASI feed?

While we are on the WLEX subject, I know WLEX has (well I know they had) an STL to WTVQ, is this backed up with fiber? Does Insight have fiber to WLEX, or do they take the WLEX STL feed from WTVQ? If Insight has fiber to WLEX, wouldn't it be easy to back up the STL with fiber (or back up the fiber with the STL?) Just curious.

WDKY has updated the software in their Rohde & Schwarz exciter today, so maybe the Fox audio problem on my Sammy (OTA) will go away :)

From what I've seen (and I could be wrong) the Lexington stations all feed Insight with fiber, and everyone else OTA. The exception is WLEX, who leases space to DirecTV for the local collection point. I've been to the Insight and Time Warner (Richmond) headends as well as the DirecTV collection point, but it has been awhile so my info may be dated. I'm not sure why DirecTV would only take the SD feed from WLEX, doesn't DirecTV use a Sencore receiver and HDSDI to feed their encoder? wouldn't it be easy for WLEX to give DirecTV an HDSDI or ASI feed? Depends on your definition of "easy". From a technical standpoint, you take the HDSDI/ASI, convert it to fiber, feed it to the headend, convert back to HDSDI/ASI and feed their encoder. You need to use fiber because of distance limitations using copper. All that equipment to do this is readily available. The problem is who pays for it.:p


While we are on the WLEX subject, I know WLEX has (well I know they had) an STL to WTVQ, is this backed up with fiber? Does Insight have fiber to WLEX, or do they take the WLEX STL feed from WTVQ? If Insight has fiber to WLEX, wouldn't it be easy to back up the STL with fiber (or back up the fiber with the STL?) Just curious.
There is a fiber backup from WLEX to WTVQ. There is a fiber feed from WLEX to Insight. The problem Sunday was a resistor in the transmitter knocking the transmitter off air. The STL feed was always up.

There is a fiber backup from WLEX to WTVQ. There is a fiber feed from WLEX to Insight. The problem Sunday was a resistor in the transmitter knocking the transmitter off air. The STL feed was always up.

Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate that the outage was due to the STL, the question was more for my curiosity than anything else. It's nice to know that in an emergency situation (tower damage, transmitter fire, flooding, etc.), theoretically any Lexington station could fiber to any other station and come up as a subchannel until the catastrophic failure was repaired.

Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate that the outage was due to the STL, the question was more for my curiosity than anything else. It's nice to know that in an emergency situation (tower damage, transmitter fire, flooding, etc.), theoretically any Lexington station could fiber to any other station and come up as a subchannel until the catastrophic failure was repaired.
I knew it was your curiosity, just wanted to make sure others didnt' get the wrong info.

That's an interesting thought with the subchannel. Except as far as I know, the stations aren't cross connected (except LEX to TVQ) via fiber. Also, the signal is already encoded before it goes down fiber, so it would need to be unencoded back to HD/SD-SDI and put into the receivers encoder.

THEN guess what would happen with bandwidth!:eek:

All KET feeds are OTA across the state. There are no fiber drops to any cable headends for our programming.

With over 160 cable and several satellite headends to hit fiber is not an option for us.

William

I feel if a cable/sat head end wants fiber from a broadcaster, make THEM pay for it.:p

All KET feeds are OTA across the state. There are no fiber drops to any cable headends for our programming.

With over 160 cable and several satellite headends to hit fiber is not an option for us.

William

Sorry, I didn't include KET in my thoughts about fiber feeds and Lexington station (even though KET is operated out of Lexington) since it's a statewide network and dramatically different in operation than a local commercial station. Since everyone is digital, there is little to no quality benefit to a fiber feed anyway. If most of the KET transmitters are solid state, I doubt that you need to shut down for maintenance (planned or unplanned) as often as stations running tubes, and I'm guessing KET doesn't log missed spots when they are off air.

No, we log anything that's a discrepency just like everyone else (try missing the kids birthday list and see what happens).. and Yes all transmitters are solid state.

Since everyone is digital, there is little to no quality benefit to a fiber feed anyway. .

Assuming the same OTA feed is fed to the fiber of course. Isn't it possible for a station to provide its signal at full bandwidth via fiber? In other words, free of competition from a subchannel for bandwidth? Or in WKYT's case, full bandwidth 1080i instead of downconverted 720p?

While on the subject, I notice that the KET LIL I'm getting from D* is 720p. Shouldn't it be 1080i like the national PBS feed?

While on the subject, I notice that the KET LIL I'm getting from D* is 720p. Shouldn't it be 1080i like the national PBS feed?

KET converts PBS from 1080i to 720p.

- Trip

KET converts PBS from 1080i to 720p.

- Trip

I don't think this holds completely true for the Louisville KET's, or at least on the occasions I've been able to receive them I recall it differently. There were (are?) two separate signals and one station pretty much provided the PBS national progamming (in 1080i IIRC) and the other was similar to the Lexington channel with KET1, KET2, etc.

I don't think this holds completely true for the Louisville KET's, or at least on the occasions I've been able to receive them I recall it differently. There were (are?) two separate signals and one station pretty much provided the PBS national progamming (in 1080i IIRC) and the other was similar to the Lexington channel with KET1, KET2, etc.

If that was true at some time before I started tracking it, it's definitely not true now. WKPC (15-x) airs the exact same lineup as the rest of the KET network, while WKMJ (68-x) airs KET2 and KET-KY in SD and dedicates the rest of the bandwidth to datacasting, so far as I know.

- Trip

The KET (formerly KET1) feed is 720p so that there is room for KET2 and KETKY. When we built the WKPC station in Louisville in 2000 it was either KET1 and KET2 (both in SD) or 1080i direct from PBS ( a coax relay controlled by the transmitter remote control).

When we built the rest of the network it started out 4 channels of SD and later went to the 4SD day and 2SD + HD in primetime schedule.

Starting October 1st, we switched to configuration we have now with KET now in HD and the others in SD (KET2 and KETKY) 24/7.

WKMJ is just KET2 and KETKY with data traffic at this time.

William

Assuming the same OTA feed is fed to the fiber of course. Isn't it possible for a station to provide its signal at full bandwidth via fiber? In other words, free of competition from a subchannel for bandwidth? Or in WKYT's case, full bandwidth 1080i instead of downconverted 720p?I would assume that would require a 2nd encoder on the station's part... one for the 720p + subchannel and one with the 1080i to go down fiber. And who would the 1080 feed go to? Why would the station NOT feed it's .2 channel?

It would require two encoders ... most headends don't decode and re-encoded (except ATT uverse) as they are using MPEG 2 in their digital cable services. They simply strip off the services and data they don't want and add the remaining stream to their muliplexers.

U verse uses MPEG 4 so they either do a decode/reencode stage or add a transcoder..

Dish and Direct are transcoded I think...

William

I would assume that would require a 2nd encoder on the station's part... one for the 720p + subchannel and one with the 1080i to go down fiber. And who would the 1080 feed go to? Why would the station NOT feed it's .2 channel?

Well, I guess because what I want is simply the main channel unadulterated and free of bandwidth starvation from the subchannel(s). Not that that is likely to happen, obviously.

Well, I guess because what I want is simply the main channel unadulterated and free of bandwidth starvation from the subchannel(s). Not that that is likely to happen, obviously.
I agree having the full bandwidth that's available (keep in mind the signal must be compressed to fit the bandwidth of an OTA broadcast) is the best, but $$ talks. Stations can make more money by running a subchannel (ok, not KET, but you know what I mean:D).

Well, I guess because what I want is simply the main channel unadulterated and free of bandwidth starvation from the subchannel(s). Not that that is likely to happen, obviously.

Unless you are watching the 1.5 Gbps HD-SDI stream AND its raw footage direct from the camera.. its compressed video to some extent.


Raw from camera live 1.5 Gbps
XDCam compressed to either 35 or 50 Mbps
Editing up to 150 Mbps for editing then output at 1.5 Mbps ("lossless" compression during editing)

Encoded for Satellite feed (Most nets except PBS ) 45 Mbps, PBS is 19.39 Mbps

Decoded back to 1.5Gbps for local switching and editing..

Local server storage rates 35 to 50 Mbps
Decoded back to 1.5Gbps for local switching

Re-encoded for ATSC max payload for video is about 18.5 Mbps due to audio and PSIP

Right now with the spectrum challenge on at the FCC, a single service on 6 Mhz is the hardest thing to justify.

William

Weird..... WYMT simulcasts WKYT on a subchannel and I have never not seen the proper WKYT PSIP info on 57.2. But I don't watch the WKYT subchannel that much.

Unless you are watching the 1.5 Gbps HD-SDI stream AND its raw footage direct from the camera.. its compressed video to some extent.

I wasn't referring to necessary compression (as I think you know), but rather starving the bandwidth by over-stuffing the allowable space. The "need" to downconvert programming which is originally 1080i to 720p to "save room" is a perfect example.



Right now with the spectrum challenge on at the FCC, a single service on 6 Mhz is the hardest thing to justify.



I guess quantity wins out over quality. I'm not saying it may not be the best decision from a business standpoint, but that doesn't mean I have to like it either.

We all did just fine with the single channels from KET, WKYT, et al for many years. I'm not sure why broadcasters automatically tend to assume more=better.

I'm not sure why broadcasters automatically tend to assume more=better.I don't think they do. I think they believe more=more $$$. If it wasn't for more $$$ (with the exception of KET:p), no station would do a subchannel.

I believe Lexington is "subchannel land" because of the advertising dollars the stations earn. The more viewable channels, the more ad spaces they can sell to fill them (KET excluded) ;) These commercial stations care very little about quality as long as the ad dollars are flowing. They probably figure we should be happy.. we don't get ghosting, herringbone, snow and interference represented the same way on our TV sets anymore, so the picture is already inherently improved (macroblocking doesn't seem to be a concern). I'm with you guys on the desire for quality, but doesn't it feel like we're in the minority when you ask any ol Joe in the area?

Certainly the perception is that there is little market pressure for high PQ. However, I think with the increasing availability of VOD, streaming, etc. providing other choices, traditional broadcast sources should maximize the potential advantage in PQ they have to place a foothold.

In other words, if everything looks like a bit-starved mess, there will be little to distinguish among them and thus IMO customers will continue to gravitate towards other sources. It's similar to what has happened with recorded media both audio and video. I guess the question is whether there is really any stopping it as PQ/AQ issues really didn't seem to stem the tide there either.

The only thing I would disagree with is the stations care "little" about quality. If that was the case, they wouldn't have invested MILLIONS of dollars (each) to produce (and air) HD content. They'd simply just pass the network feed (if that) in HD.

It's simple to say "no subchannel, give everything to the network feed", but how many people on here would be upset if KYT stopped broadcasting the CW?
So now stations need to make a decision... sacrifice some image quality on the "main" channel to provide viewers with subchannels (and themselves with more advertising dollars), or just keep the "status quo". So they try to find a balance point between quality and quantity. No matter what you do you'll make someone upset. So try to please the majority... I guess.:confused:

I wouldn't care a bit if CWKYT went away. WBKI is HD, and I get it fine with a small antenna.

Keep in mind that many viewers on HDTVs watch stretched SD or analog and think it's HD. While I'm also a fan of good PQ, I'm not sure that the vast majority of viewers would flee from stations if the PQ was to decrease.

- Trip