CW needs its own dedicated channel to provide what is intended by the network, i.e. HD quality. I'm frankly suprised the CW network allows this. What would happen if you tried to do the same with FOX or CBS? I guess CW is willing to compromise in an attempt to obtain more viewership.

How many sat/cable co's carry the subchannels anyway? Would there really be that much fuss kicked up if they suddenly went away?

I wouldn't care a bit if CWKYT went away. WBKI is HD, and I get it fine with a small antenna.

I'd say the same if I could get WBKI-DT reliably in Winchester. Just doesn't happen til the sun's radiation has cleared this side of the globe for me. Granted the antenna is in the attic, but I've already commented here on the obstacles with me moving it outside - wife factor, neighborhood deed restrictions "no antenna larger than 24" on rooftop", etc. Recently at my grandfather's funeral a neighbor I grew up next to that I hadn't seen in 14 years was telling me I could get an amateur ham radio license and then the FCC would back me against the deed and any size antenna would be allowed on my roof. It's not going to work on my wife however. ;)

The alternate sources cpcat mentioned provide HD CW programming in my household. To play it safe I still record the shows on CWKYT in SD. I just don't watch them because they look bad. :o
WKYT is, in fact, driving me away to seek these additional sources. If it affects a larger number of people I can totally see quality coming into the spotlight for OTA and maybe the local broadcasters doing something about it.
Too bad technology had not advanced quick enough for OTA to use mpeg-4 transmission instead of mpeg-2.

CW needs its own dedicated channel to provide what is intended by the network, i.e. HD quality. I'm frankly suprised the CW network allows this. What would happen if you tried to do the same with FOX or CBS? I guess CW is willing to compromise in an attempt to obtain more viewership.

How many sat/cable co's carry the subchannels anyway? Would there really be that much fuss kicked up if they suddenly went away?

I'd be more upset if I found out WKYT were providing CW-HD to Insight, Time Warner, DirectTV and Dish Network and not OTA since those are all paid providers.

CW needs its own dedicated channel to provide what is intended by the network, i.e. HD quality. I'm frankly suprised the CW network allows this. What would happen if you tried to do the same with FOX or CBS? I guess CW is willing to compromise in an attempt to obtain more viewership. That's my guess also. Although you're free to start your own station. :D


How many sat/cable co's carry the subchannels anyway? Would there really be that much fuss kicked up if they suddenly went away?Direct has a receiver for CWKYT. Don't know about anyone else.

So other than CW, which is somewhat peculiar as a network contained on a subchannel, none of the subchannels are viewed except by OTA viewers?

That's my guess also. Although you're free to start your own station. :D



Well, actually since I'm on the consumer side of things, the logical continuation would be that I'm free to watch CW from another source. That'd still be OK for CW I guess, but not so good for WKYT.

So other than CW, which is somewhat peculiar as a network contained on a subchannel, none of the subchannels are viewed except by OTA viewers?

I'll have to confirm but I seem to remember seeing Time Warner basic in Winchester including at least one of the KET subchannels as well as CWKYT and that MyTVQ2 channel. I'll double-check this evening. They like to move channels around all the time in that package.

I'll have to confirm but I seem to remember seeing Time Warner basic in Winchester including at least one of the KET subchannels as well as CWKYT and that MyTVQ2 channel. I'll double-check this evening. They like to move channels around all the time in that package.

Yes ... TWC is carrying all of the subchannels ... except for the radar/news (27.3 and 36.3) ... not sure about 18.2. In fact, they have a few of them up multiple times (analog and digital/QAM.)

It's too bad they only have less than a handful of real HD channels. Oh and syndex restrictions too, sorry you can only watch "Wheel of Torture" on WKYT, no WLKY allowed. :rolleyes:

Insight carries 18.2

BenCJedi, there is no such thing as a legal deed restriction on an outdoor antenna designed to receive broadcast television. Feel free to install the antenna and tell your HOA that they can wipe their butt with the illegal restriction. Google "OTARD." Now for the wife factor, even federal regulations can't restrict the wife's objection. I was one of those lucky few that nearly purchased a Beazer home, and I told them up front that the deed restriction was in violation of federal law, I would install an antenna, and I would have the federal government do battle with them if they did not remove the restriction. Beazer put a cold air return across the entire bottom of the only first floor closet in the house they were building for us. I asked them to move it, I designed the new return path and told them how to install it. They said no, so I let them keep the house. I guess that was their solution to OTARD.

BenCJedi, there is no such thing as a legal deed restriction on an outdoor antenna designed to receive broadcast television. Feel free to install the antenna and tell your HOA that they can wipe their butt with the illegal restriction. Google "OTARD."

I figured it was BS. I mean who limits an antenna to 24" on one's roof? I'm sure they meant a satellite dish antenna (as if no one uses over the air terrestrially anymore), but it is ambiguous on purpose probably.

So you're saying Beazer put the air duct under the closet, so you couldn't use the closet as a conduit for your cabling? That is stupid. I have a multi-floor house (basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor and then attic I can stand in at 6"2) and made use of the closet on the 2nd floor to drop cabling through that to the 1st and then below it though the space along the basement steps. I actually cleaned that up last week and now have all the cabling inside the walls (it was a JOB to say the least). I have some spackling left to do from the wall surgery (got pissed when a connecting rod detached inside the wall, so I used a hole saw bit at one point to make a hole to get my hand inside the wall to grab that and finish the job easier). I ran some RG-6, cat5 and various audio\vid cables to share a satellite receiver video output from the livingroom to my bedroom upstairs. A Leapfrog RF remote base thing allows me to use a remote to change the channels when viewing upstairs. There's 100ft of s-video cable between the two points and surprisingly the picture is without interference and looks great. I really like the monoprice site's prices and cable quality. Good stuff!

Well, 'once again' WKYT's PSIP guide data is out. :rolleyes:

I talked to Mike Kanarek last week, he was completely surprised that they have been experiencing PSIP guide data problems(and seemingly oblivious to their abismal track record of PSIP data outages) as they are 'supposed' to have an alarm to notify them when it's malfunctioning.

Dude, your 'alarm' needs an 'alarm'. :cool:

Well, 'once again' WKYT's PSIP guide data is out. :rolleyes:

I talked to Mike Kanarek last week, he was completely surprised that they have been experiencing PSIP guide data problems(and seemingly oblivious to their abismal track record of PSIP data outages) as they are 'supposed' to have an alarm to notify them when it's malfunctioning.

Dude, your 'alarm' needs an 'alarm'. :cool:

They probably have an alarm if the computer that generates the PSIP is down..not if the data is accurate. If your seeing "DTV programming" or something like that the server is populating the data tables with default data but is still running.

Most station subscribe to a service to obtain their EPG listings data and they update the server with the correct information for that station.

The only way I know of to verify that the data matches the programming is a human monitor. To the computer.. "DTV Programming" is a vaild program.

In KET's case we generate the listings data in house and send it to the listing services.. so rather than pay to get our own data back we export a listings file that our in house PSIP system can import. We try to update every time programming makes a change but we don't update it if Master Control makes a last minute change.

William

Yeah, Mike K. didn't seem too receptive to the suggestion of a dedicated monitor for just that task last week when I spoke to him. I do appreciate though how he let me mildly vent about it, and he was in no way dismissive towards my call.(I'm actually surprised I got connected through to him, their phone system is atrocious)
The problem with WKYT is almost always(99.99%) "No Information Available", as opposed to "DTV Program".

Early on the digital switchover, WLEX had a mainly "DTV Program" issue, but that is nearly completely resolved(there's an odd late night missing listing periodically and Sunday Night FB often is "DTV Program").
Not only have they addressed that, but they have been great about populating the guide for 3+ days(not positive of exact length, but far more than the typical 'measly' 12 hours). Kudos to WLEX.

They('any' responsible party at WKYT) must know by now they have a recuuring PSIP problem, it would seem to reason under those conditions, that you would at least for a month or two, or until you are satisfied you have resolved the 'obvious' recurring problem, that you would make it a 3 to 4 hour scheduled 'watch' event. One that is actually checked by a human.
Chit, ain't that what interns are for? :D

I thank you for your 'yet again' technologically indepth post, and your obvious competancy in your field for which comes across in your posts repeatedly, not to mention any less so than through the air waves too.
We viewers 'do' notice, especially when we 'don't' notice. ;)

See, I never noticed that WKYT's PSIP is missing. Windows Media Center downloads its guide from Tribune Media Services (www.zap2it.com) and doesn't use the OTA PSIP at all. I wonder if not so many viewers are complaining because they have the same kind of guide info from other sources (like TiVo-HD possibly getting its guide 'over the wire' like the Windows Media Centers do).

The problem I have had with all versions of Media Center (from 2004, 2005 and now Windows 7).. they have all lacked the ability to get guide info from a channel in another DMA that either your cable or satellite provider is lacking (therefore not part of their guide, so you can't remap). For me that would be the occasional tuning ability OTA of WBKI-DT and never having guide info for it. I wish Microsoft were smarter about this and allowed the end user to customize what channel gets its guide information from specified source. Then I could tell Media Center that WBKI-DT should get it's channel info from PSIP or perhaps a cable company in Louisville, but all other channels continue to receive their guide from the Winchester Time-Warner cable lineup selection. At the very least a PSIP option per channel would work (assuming the station isn't like WKYT and not noticing when they screw it up). In the past I have had CWKYT guide info going to WBKI, but it wasn't perfect when WKYT decided they were going to run a ball game and pre-empt regular programming. If MCE could allow multiple guide provider\PSIP customization per channel it would be killer!

Ho hum... yet 'again' WKYT's PSIP info is out this a.m.
Didn't have a need to check it last night, but today it certainly is out.

Yeah, Ben, I use a Dish DTVPal DVR, and seeing how the Lex locals have never taken the TVGOS plunge, and probably never will, PSIP is all that I can rely on. Which, once again is required by FCC regulations, unlike TVGOS.(AHEM Mike K. at WKYT!!!)

Are you able to use Schedules Direct?

Personally, and like quite a few others who own a DTVPal DVR, I would happily pay a 'nominal' fee for a reliable internet connected/updated EPG.

Have you let the FCC know about all of the PSIP issues? I'm pretty sure they don't have someone dedicated to monitoring PSIP data to make sure it meets requirements, so the only way they'll know there is a problem is if it gets reported.

Letting them know that you bought a device such as the DTVPal and that you rely on the local stations to send the FCC-required PSIP data in order for your device to function correctly may help was well.

Ho hum... yet 'again' WKYT's PSIP info is out this a.m.
Didn't have a need to check it last night, but today it certainly is out.

Yeah, Ben, I use a Dish DTVPal DVR, and seeing how the Lex locals have never taken the TVGOS plunge, and probably never will, PSIP is all that I can rely on. Which, once again is required by FCC regulations, unlike TVGOS.(AHEM Mike K. at WKYT!!!)

Are you able to use Schedules Direct?

Personally, and like quite a few others who own a DTVPal DVR, I would happily pay a 'nominal' fee for a reliable internet connected/updated EPG.

I have a DTVpal DVR and thanks to WLEX, I have a week of program guide. Their engineers are the best. If I knew who was responsible, I would send them a gift. Maybe I'll call and have them go over to the other stations and show them how it's done. Smart guys. And I would not pay anything for a program guide as long as my DVR can record on a date, time and channel no matter what is on at that time. Just like the old VCR. I can find out what's on through the web. Usually have that paid for anyway.

Since KET operates in several markets and two time zones there was no way for us to continue with the TV guide service. Since WLEX only has to serve the Lexington Market it was easier for them.

OK, I spent more time watching TVQ the last two days (NYE & bowl games) than I've spent the last year. Anyone else have a problem with their audio leveling between network & local? My receiver shows everything to be 5.1, so they've got some box to convert their local stereo audio to 5.1, but WOW, what a difference in the audio. I'll give them a call Monday (maybe... I won't need to watch them again for another year:p), but wanted to know if this has been a recurring problem.

OK, I spent more time watching TVQ the last two days (NYE & bowl games) than I've spent the last year. Anyone else have a problem with their audio leveling between network & local? My receiver shows everything to be 5.1, so they've got some box to convert their local stereo audio to 5.1, but WOW, what a difference in the audio. I'll give them a call Monday (maybe... I won't need to watch them again for another year:p), but wanted to know if this has been a recurring problem.

Oh yeah! I'm sure I've mentioned this a few times in the thread. Easily a 20dB jump. I have to keep my finger ready on the FF a/o mute buttons to avoid getting splattered against the back wall ... or ceiling. It's especially annoying when they also mistime 11pm news bump/commercial near the end of 10pm slot.

OK, I spent more time watching TVQ the last two days (NYE & bowl games) than I've spent the last year. Anyone else have a problem with their audio leveling between network & local? My receiver shows everything to be 5.1, so they've got some box to convert their local stereo audio to 5.1, but WOW, what a difference in the audio. I'll give them a call Monday (maybe... I won't need to watch them again for another year:p), but wanted to know if this has been a recurring problem.

I'm with ya there...it seems recently they boosted the level of the audio,thus making the commercials and local stuff unbelievably loud.

Until several weeks ago they were one of the quieter stations,now they are by far the loudest.Everything about their operation is amateur hour.

I agree having the full bandwidth that's available (keep in mind the signal must be compressed to fit the bandwidth of an OTA broadcast) is the best, but $$ talks. Stations can make more money by running a subchannel (ok, not KET, but you know what I mean:D).

The FCC wants to eliminate free broadcast HDTV anyway. The thought is that nobody cares about free TV, and I guess if you can't afford or don't want to afford cable, well you're screwed. I wish my cable tv survived the ice storm, it was down for 7 days. OTOH, free tv worked perfectly during the entire ice storm. I suppose we don't really need television (or local news) during natural disasters. I might give Mr. Chandler an ear full about the FCC idea, he's normally on the side of Kentucky voters on most issues (except he voted for cap and trade, but that was before the news about scientists suppressing research that contradicted the "man made global warming" bandwagon)

Actually, I think it was a CEA study that suggested doing away with OTA, not the FCC. I personally think there will be a HUGE outcry if OTA is done away with. Keep in mind, you don't just have OTA viewers, but I'm willing to guess 99% of the cable companies pick up the local feeds OTA. So they would also lose.

I think I remember Brian Williams reporting recently that some law was passed so that stations will need to equalize audio between commercials and programming, so neither would be higher or lower than the other. The drastic changes in volume level between programs and commercials we've known for decades will be a thing of the past. I'll probably still endure a huge change between analog cable and ATSC OTA tuning though as stereo 2.0 sound is always louder than 5.1, I guess because of the nature of the Dolby Digital spec.

So the weather banners on WLEX were unbelievable HUGE this evening while watching Heroes... WLEX evidently has re-tooled them for 2010 and now they take up no less than 1/5th of the vertical space on the screen AND they added a yellow pop-up banner on top of that for 'breaking news'. I didn't think bugs and banners could get any worse, but they just proved the sky's the limit. Expect the top fifth of the screen one day to be dedicated to programming in stretch-o-vision fashion.

We should sent WLEX a can of Raid to kill all the massive bugs. That was ridiculous. I didn't even try to watch. Those shows will be available on Hulu or netflix or other places in a few days without all that crap. I'll watch them then.

I think I remember Brian Williams reporting recently that some law was passed so that stations will need to equalize audio between commercials and programming, so neither would be higher or lower than the other. The drastic changes in volume level between programs and commercials we've known for decades will be a thing of the past. I'll probably still endure a huge change between analog cable and ATSC OTA tuning though as stereo 2.0 sound is always louder than 5.1, I guess because of the nature of the Dolby Digital spec. I believe the law that was passed just asked the FCC to take care of volume leveling.


So the weather banners on WLEX were unbelievable HUGE this evening while watching Heroes... WLEX evidently has re-tooled them for 2010 and now they take up no less than 1/5th of the vertical space on the screen AND they added a yellow pop-up banner on top of that for 'breaking news'. I didn't think bugs and banners could get any worse, but they just proved the sky's the limit. Expect the top fifth of the screen one day to be dedicated to programming in stretch-o-vision fashion.I have it on good authority the amount of space taken up for school closings is the same as it was last year, and the year before I believe. I do agree the closings don't need to be up all the time until early morning. As I've said before, if there's something you don't like, call the station and complain. Or send an email. Something to register your complaint.

Taking my suggestion myself, I contacted WTVQ about their volume leveling issue. They know about the issue and have requested volume leveling equipment but haven't gotten permission to purchase from corporate. They say they're trying to do what they can but having problems doing so with existing equipment.

You're right Sam, but the reason the banners looked wider to me.... I bought a new TV a month ago (40", up from 32"). LOL.. everything is bigger to me. Nonetheless the little raised bar they were using for the breaking news does add a little more height to that banner when they pop it in there. Was the bug in the upper right always so massive? I just had the feeling I was watching the programming through a crack in the wall. lol

Ben-

The raised bar is new... last year it was integrated in the main graphic, so not taking up any more "real estate". As the parent of two school age children, it is a nice feature.

The bug in the upper right is the same also.

BTW, I emailed the ND about the problem with watching prime time and he told me they're going to cut back on how long they leave the closings up each time. See what happens when you communicate.:D

BTW, I emailed the ND about the problem with watching prime time and he told me they're going to cut back on how long they leave the closings up each time. See what happens when you communicate.:D
OK, that lasted long.:mad: I tried.

I see WLEX has left the ginormous banner for church closings on screen all day.

They can't leave that thing up during the NFL game today,can they?:eek:

Does the SEC network not provide an HD feed to WKYT? The picture quality is not very nice for today's game. It looks like an upconvert to me. Notice the grains of the wood floor are very jagged in the picture?

I see WLEX has left the ginormous banner for church closings on screen all day.

They can't leave that thing up during the NFL game today,can they?:eek:
They can, but fortunately didn't.

Does the SEC network not provide an HD feed to WKYT? The picture quality is not very nice for today's game. It looks like an upconvert to me. Notice the grains of the wood floor are very jagged in the picture?Didn't see the game, but don't be sure it was produced in HD. It could have just been done 16x9 SD.

To me it looked like the main camera shot was an upconvert, but the other shots looked ok despite being pretty dark. Not sure what the issue was with the game but I hope they get it corrected before the next broadcast.

I checked back thru the psts and could not find it but when does WKYT plan on changing their digital channel?

bump

^^^ Obviously we don't know. :) The RM and Application have been approved. At this point only the WKYT management a/o technical staff would know what their plans are.

Thanks. I would love to be done with the dropouts whenever the dishwasher switches cycles.

WKYT-DT 36 is now a CP http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=wkyt#10003

^^^ We knew that, what we don't know is when WKYT will actually act upon the CP and bring it online.

I would suggest, that if the subject is that important, one should go directly to the source. IOW, just call the station and ask them. :)

Bonus points for coming back here and reporting your findings.

From an email I got back at the beginning of Decemeber... it will still be April or May of 2010 before all the equipment can be manufactured, installed, tested, and be ready to put it on the air. At that time we will cease broadcasting on channel 13 completely. All of our current multicast channels will then be part of channel 36.

I still think they should keep channel 13, and put the CW on it and make it HD and put CBS on 36, but that's me.

I still think they should keep channel 13, and put the CW on it and make it HD and put CBS on 36, but that's me.

If the FCC was allotting new stations at this time, I'm sure they'd consider it. However there is no legal way for it to happen at this time.

- Trip

From an email I got back at the beginning of Decemeber... it will still be April or May of 2010 before all the equipment can be manufactured, installed, tested, and be ready to put it on the air. At that time we will cease broadcasting on channel 13 completely. All of our current multicast channels will then be part of channel 36.

Yeah, I figured they'd wait until after UK B-Ball, March Madness and winter were over before starting any work ... but I didn't want to make a wild guess. ;)

What they could do is file for a new DTV Class A station on Ch 13 for CW in June and then push it up to full power later when the filing window opens.

According to the old RCA transmission line length chart, both Ch 36 and Ch 27 use the same length line sections so the analog line could be refurbed and put into service on digital 36.

There is a source for the parts.

Since the CH 13 system (transmitter, antenna, and line) are rated for high power VHF operation it would be pretty easy and minimizes the costs later.

William

What they could do is file for a new DTV Class A station on Ch 13 for CW in June and then push it up to full power later when the filing window opens.

According to the old RCA transmission line length chart, both Ch 36 and Ch 27 use the same length line sections so the analog line could be refurbed and put into service on digital 36.

There is a source for the parts.

Since the CH 13 system (transmitter, antenna, and line) are rated for high power VHF operation it would be pretty easy and minimizes the costs later.

William
Is there a filing window open for this, or when will the FCC begin accepting? And, would it be open to competing applicants?

The filing window for LPTVs and Class As was to be open this month but it has been pushed back until June.
Like all windows it would be open to all applications.

A second thought would be for them to file for it as a "fill in" (which could be done now) and run an SD feed of WKYT and an HD of CW..


Your going to make WKYT very mad at me....

William

A second thought would be for them to file for it as a "fill in" (which could be done now) and run an SD feed of WKYT and an HD of CW..

I'm not 100% sure that's legal. (Fill-in translators are supposed to repeat the main signal.) Even if it is, they'd have to drop the power from 30 kW to 0.3 kW, which would likely be very, VERY difficult to receive.

- Trip

Okay, license it to a surrounding city such as Richmond where the TW headend is and repeat WKYT until June then make it a Class A and go from there.


(They already have fiber to Insight in Lexington)

Lots of ways to play... just need a plan..

William

Even as a class A, the power is capped at 0.3 kW. That signal won't get too far.

- Trip

Agreed but from 1000' it has some potential... Since the FCC is waving the power limits for VHF stations, a case could be made to do the same for Class As as they will have the same issues power issues as the big guys..

Or they could go for 34 and broadband the new antenna for 36 and go 15 kW as a class A and combine on the ground.

Based on what I've seen I wouldn't recommend going on 35 due to poor receiver selectivity performance leading to IF overdrive due to the AGC.

Hence why some receivers have issues with being able to decode WTVQ and not WLEX even though they are on the same antenna and WLEX has more RF power.

Hence why some receivers have issues with being able to decode WTVQ and not WLEX even though they are on the same antenna and WLEX has more RF power.Flip those. TVQ has upped their power so now they're putting out more.

Agreed but from 1000' it has some potential... Since the FCC is waving the power limits for VHF stations, a case could be made to do the same for Class As as they will have the same issues power issues as the big guys..

The FCC has not yet done so for upper-VHF LPTV or Class A stations, and has been hesitant to grant permanent increases for stations to increase power over the FCC's maximum--to the best of my knowledge, these increases have all been done under STA without permanent authority.

Or they could go for 34 and broadband the new antenna for 36 and go 15 kW as a class A and combine on the ground.

It could theoretically be done, depending on spacing to WCET and all that.

Based on what I've seen I wouldn't recommend going on 35 due to poor receiver selectivity performance leading to IF overdrive due to the AGC.

I wouldn't recommend going on 35 due to the presence of WLWT in Cincinnati.

- Trip

Thanks Sam, I stand corrected!

No prob. I do what I can to help. :)

Edit.
WKYT's PSIP was out, now back.
(Had my post sitting for a few hours, posted it, rechecked a few minutes after posting and it was back, maybe someone is actually monitoring today due to football game being on.)

Edit 2... I unfortunately stand corrected yet again. WKYT's PSIP info is indeed MIA, ...AGAIN!
Earlier, what I thought was them actually correcting thier yet again FU, was just my epg's 'buffer'.

Let's hope they farm out the switch from 13 to 36 to 'capable' engineers, maybe then it will go seemlessly.

Edit 3 And it's back up. Maybe, just maybe thier alarm is working properly now that Mike K. spoke of.

See, I am not the only one noticing that the SEC Network feed of UK basketball games looks like shite on WKYT:

http://www.kentucky.com/kentuckysports/latest/story/1111438.html?pageNum=2&mi_pluck_action=page_nav#Comments_Container

I would suspect SEC Network\ESPN is maximizing profit by robbing bitrate and conserving bandwidth on what they are feeding the affiliates from their satellite (they just don't fess up to it by acting like there is no problem). If their PPV feed is flawness they are probably compressing the video and then feeding that to the satellite to distribute to the affiliates. Less to upload to the satellite = less transmission power\less electricity used?

Did WKYT shoot the games themselves in HD before this SEC Network deal? Whoever did provided an excellent picture (subchannels on WKYT notwithstanding). I hope the issue is fixed soon.

I am all for WKYT bringing CWKYT back to HD on its own frequency as suggested. I think we all need to let the station manager know we would support some action to get CW back in HD.

See, I am not the only one noticing that the SEC Network feed of UK basketball games looks like shite on WKYT:

http://www.kentucky.com/kentuckysports/latest/story/1111438.html?pageNum=2&mi_pluck_action=page_nav#Comments_Container

I would suspect SEC Network\ESPN is maximizing profit by robbing bitrate and conserving bandwidth on what they are feeding the affiliates from their satellite (they just don't fess up to it by acting like there is no problem). If their PPV feed is flawness they are probably compressing the video and then feeding that to the satellite to distribute to the affiliates. Less to upload to the satellite = less transmission power\less electricity used?The word I'm getting is the signal is sent from the arena, downlinked in Charlotte(?), studio stuff added to it, then up (via fiber) to some teleport and back to the stations. According to my source, stations have the option of 1080i, 720p, or SD. It is possible KYT is not to blame for this. They can only air what's given to them. That being said, I do know of one SEC Network game done earlier in the year that was produced in 16:9 SD. I just don't remember which game.:p


Did WKYT shoot the games themselves in HD before this SEC Network deal? Whoever did provided an excellent picture (subchannels on WKYT notwithstanding). I hope the issue is fixed soon.

Keep in mind there are three different entities that could provide a game on WKYT...
BBSN uses a production truck owned by WKYT, and the game is uplinked via KYT to the various affiliates. That production truck is SD only (16:9 I'm pretty sure, but SD only).
SEC Network (now produced by ESPN, formally produced by Raycom & JP) was all HD last year (at least the games in Rupp), was either SD or analog before that. Now I'm getting the impression that this year is HD OR SD.
CBS I'm fairly confident will always be HD.

I sent an email to the station manager at WKYT in regard to the CBS-HD channel move and inquiry about any possibility for using ch13 for CWKYT in high def. He forwarded my email to Mike Kanarek who said a few things:

1) CWKYT is going to HD within 60 days, but only on Insight cable in Lexington. No agreement with Time Warner

2) Construction permit has been granted for CBS to be moved to ch36 and they are targeting to be up and running on that by the end of April

3) Once CBS is moved, they will likely pursue keeping ch13 for CWKYT in HD, but cautioned about FCC regulation on a single station not normally allowed to hold two separate licenses in the same market. He said they would look for loopholes such as classifying it as a low power station. Also there are financial considerations to be made, but these considerations will not come into play until CBS is moved.

So basically once they accomplish #1, they are unfairly giving Insight an edge on competition (Dish Network and Time Warner). Hopefully DN and TWC will make an agreement or whatever to offer it also. Ideally a ch13 OTA deal can be worked out with the FCC I hope.

I wonder if WKYT has considered purchasing the ch4 antenna from WDKY. Low VHF broadcast is less electricity, right?, so their operating costs for broadcasting CW in HD is much lower than @ ch13 with the old WDKY antenna, right? Yeah, it is not the best frequency to avoid interference, but at least they could (FCC notwithstanding) be able to offer CW in HD to everyone in the bluegrass and those far off counties that can sniff VHF easier (therefore their advertising penetrates more people, potentially attracting more advertisers to buy ads on CWKYT). Did WDKY sell that vh4 antenna?

The reason they would be able to send it to Insight is because there is fiber connecting the two. Dish, Direct, TW, all other cable headends are dependent on OTA reception.

He said they would look for loopholes such as classifying it as a low power station.

I still don't think this would work out well, though it would allow for the satellite companies to pick it up at least. The signal strength would have to be knocked down by 20 dB thus basically requiring roof antennas for reception.

I wonder if WKYT has considered purchasing the ch4 antenna from WDKY. Low VHF broadcast is less electricity, right?, so their operating costs for broadcasting CW in HD is much lower than @ ch13 with the old WDKY antenna, right?

I don't think so. WDKY was at 26 kW ERP and WKYT is at 30 kW ERP. According to filings with the FCC:

WDKY-4 was making 26.5 kW ERP with a TPO of 3.55 kW.
WKYT-13 is making 30 kW ERP with a TPO of 4.65 kW.

I can't imagine the savings on that being very good, especially considering the reception problems it would lead to. Plus they'd have to knock down the power level anyway, so using equipment they already own would be the better deal.

- Trip

In the analog days ,almost all the legacy antennas in this area used rooftop or attic antennas since there were no VHFs here and people didn't want to put up huge antennas to get VHF.

This is why WDKY had such a hard time with viewer complaints..

For the most part indoor settop antennas were limited to the Lex metro area.

Once you went out of town it was rooftop or attic antennas..


If you were lucky a two bay bowtie antenna would work for some stations inside.


Most of the out of town OTA viewers "just knew" they needed an outdoor antenna systems to get TV period.

Sat on a roof peak many a day with a pipe wrench turning a mast while my brother ,who was standing in the yard, relayed "signal quality" observations from my father.

Later we used walkie talkies...

I think WKYT should just launch a new station period when and if the FCC allows that to happen. Give the CW it's own name and call letters and operate out of the same building. I know WDRB/WMYO do that... I think.

I can see it already... CW 13 in HD http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3379461&l=ab66bc96a5&id=513781908

I can't think of a reason why WKYT would want a channel 4 transmitter to replace channel 13. I really expect the FCC to grab the entire VHF spectrum for other uses, the low v's for sure. I know the low v's have interference and antenna size issues (anyone want a 7' dipole on their wireless router and laptop?) but maybe they could set aside 2-4 for wired modulators (maybe even 8vsb modulators) and use 5 and 6 to expand FM radio. I think William Smith posted about this a couple years ago, and it's still a good idea.

Speaking of WKYT ... I see they managed to hose down "Supernatural" (or at least the first 10-15 minutes) last night. UK sports: the gift that just keeps on giving.

I've given WKYT a lot of grief in the past for their HD sports picture quality, but it appears they've righted the ship. The Super Bowl tonight looked great. Gone are the days of the "blurry" camera changes.

There are still small issues with bitrate as fast action had some pixilization, but overall looked good. Now if WTVQ could fix their issues we'd be in good shape!

Man I was so disappointed by the macro-blocking and pixelation in the confetti! When will someone get that right?!! :mad:


Haha j/k! I like to point that out how my friend's HDTVs look like crap when there's a shot of confetti like that (just to needlessly pick and get a rise). Those non-techie ones really do think something is wrong with the picture til I explain all the action and not enough bitrate to satisfy all the particles of paper flying by in every direction. :D

Speaking of WKYT ... I see they managed to hose down "Supernatural" (or at least the first 10-15 minutes) last night. UK sports: the gift that just keeps on giving.I was beyond furious Friday night when a buddy came over to watch my recording of the show (Supernatural). I can live with a preempted showing that gets moved to midnight (so long as the schedule details the change) but just joining a show 15min in without so much as a sorry is just galling.

It is beyond disrespectful what WKYT has done to the CW -- their treatment of their viewers and lack of allowances for those of us that do enjoy shows on the CW makes me wonder why they even bother with maintaining the license for the network.

I was beyond furious Friday night when a buddy came over to watch my recording of the show (Supernatural). I can live with a preempted showing that gets moved to midnight (so long as the schedule details the change) but just joining a show 15min in without so much as a sorry is just galling.

It is beyond disrespectful what WKYT has done to the CW -- their treatment of their viewers and lack of allowances for those of us that do enjoy shows on the CW makes me wonder why they even bother with maintaining the license for the network.

I agree! Can WBKI increase their power and take over the Bluegrass? Would the FCC allow that? Seems WKYT is just doing CW for the extra ad revenue, but they are doing the network a disservice in how they are handling it. Perhaps we should write to CW corporate management with our thoughts on the matter?

I've given WKYT a lot of grief in the past for their HD sports picture quality, but it appears they've righted the ship. The Super Bowl tonight looked great. Gone are the days of the "blurry" camera changes.

Well ... only if you didn't have WLKY to compare with. Unfortunately, there was some periodic abnormal interference on ch26 last night so I had to bounce back and forth between WLKY and WKYT. It was clear that WKYT was dropping frames, it looked like a bad PAL->NTSC conversion.

I agree! Can WBKI increase their power and take over the Bluegrass?

Sadly, WBKI has been dropping the ball lately. HD has been MIA for over a month, their SD upconvert is worse than CWKYT. There's no good news for CW fans lately.

I agree! Can WBKI increase their power and take over the Bluegrass? Would the FCC allow that?

WBKI is already at the FCC limit of 1000 kW.

- Trip

Well ... only if you didn't have WLKY to compare with. Unfortunately, there was some periodic abnormal interference on ch26 last night so I had to bounce back and forth between WLKY and WKYT. It was clear that WKYT was dropping frames, it looked like a bad PAL->NTSC conversion.

I didn't notice any dropped frames watching WKYT through Insight. I did notice some "sparkling" in the image during fast motion but that was really my only PQ issue with the presentation last night.

Well ... only if you didn't have WLKY to compare with. Unfortunately, there was some periodic abnormal interference on ch26 last night so I had to bounce back and forth between WLKY and WKYT. It was clear that WKYT was dropping frames, it looked like a bad PAL->NTSC conversion.

Compared to WCBS via D* it isn't even close. WVLT in Knoxville even has better PQ than KYT and you should hear the local Knoxville guys complain about WVLT.:)

Man I was so disappointed by the macro-blocking and pixelation in the confetti! When will someone get that right?!! :mad:


Haha j/k! I like to point that out how my friend's HDTVs look like crap when there's a shot of confetti like that (just to needlessly pick and get a rise). Those non-techie ones really do think something is wrong with the picture til I explain all the action and not enough bitrate to satisfy all the particles of paper flying by in every direction. :D


As one who does TV for a living..I'm going to chip in here...

If you looked close at the confetti shot you could see a player in the background. Undoubtedly, the camera was focused on the player not the confetti that results in the confetti being out of focus.

Since the encoders work in blocks ( hence the name macroblocking) a blur becomes a square...

On that shot I don't think 45 Mbps raw from the satellite would have been clean..

Some things just don't compress well and flying confetti and strobe lights are two of them..

And no one can deliver the 1.5Gbps HDSDI to the consumer without some form of compression.

William

Took a couple of pics of the SnowGo crawls tonight. They really boggle my mind at how much space they take up.

WLEX - 21% of screen
WLEX LINK (https://doc-10-0g-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/secure/rb76hs62dof3nkvdingba5cedl9ltjag/80amvb58bocbfviql8if13h5m2arpqsm/1265760000000/05422069579970662652/*/0B3955hvHxvZgNzQyNzU5NzAtNTIyNC00MDJlLWJkYWItNTkyZWE1YWRmNDZ l)

WTVQ - 24% of screen
WTVQ LINK (https://doc-08-0g-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/secure/rb76hs62dof3nkvdingba5cedl9ltjag/bogkq5asv6fmuqn1gq6b089rcl2m91d9/1265760000000/05422069579970662652/*/0B3955hvHxvZgY2I1YjFhOWUtNzU5Yy00ZjEwLWIzMjAtZjExYjQwOTg2NTM 4)

I didn't take snapshots of WKYT, but they take up 18.5% of the screen, which isn't quite as bad. WKYT and WTVQ both have excellent weather warning crawls that are either miniscule or text-only, but their snowgo reports are the problem. It causes the picture to be squeezed into a small area and stretched beyond necessity.

My question is to the folks who lurk or post here that work at these stations. Is there any change you can make to these? Is there a reason for the ridiculous sizing that I am missing? Any info from the "inside guys" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Took a couple of pics of the SnowGo crawls tonight. They really boggle my mind at how much space they take up.
...

1) In WTVQ's defense: At least they suppressed the urge to wreck "Lost."

2) In everyone's defense: At least they don't drop back to SD upconverts to display these things anymore.

3) That being said, I don't see why SnoGo et al, needs to be plastered on screen 24/7 ...

While they seem huge on an HD set remember that for folks who watch on 4 x3 sets the image is either letterboxed or center cut depending on how the decoder is setup

If its letterboxed the image appear to shrink making the text too small to read..

It should get a little better in 2012 when the cable headends shut down their analog tiers and the 4 x 3 sets are replaced.

William

While they seem huge on an HD set remember that for folks who watch on 4 x3 sets the image is either letterboxed or center cut depending on how the decoder is setup

If its letterboxed the image appear to shrink making the text too small to read..You also have to allow for the 4x3 SD viewers because of "over scan". As William pointed out, in HD, there's a TON of space to the bottom, but a LOT (1/2?) of the "empty" space isn't even seen on a center cut 4x3 screen.


It should get a little better in 2012 when the cable headends shut down their analog tiers and the 4 x 3 sets are replaced.

William
Is there something that's going to FORCE consumers to get rid of 4x3 sets? I think broadcasters are still going to need to stay 4x3 "safe" for quite a while.

I disagree. From memory, the info area of all stations is basically the same, even WLWT which has the tidiest. The difference is the dead space below the info area. It's just visual decoration, has no purpose, never has anything in it. Once you get used to seeing the dead space, you'll get even angrier lol.

My guess is they paid for the box that does it, and they're going to use it no matter what. They think this is what HD is all about - cool graphics that take away from the programming, and they as a group obviously don't care about broadcast quality of the programming. One out of five in 1080i and KET dropped 5.1 for some reason when they changed I assume.

I disagree. From memory, the info area of all stations is basically the same, even WLWT which has the tidiest. The difference is the dead space below the info area. It's just visual decoration, has no purpose, never has anything in it.That's funny, I've been watching 18, and they've ran crawls (more snow coming!) under their school closings. I even watched on a 4x3 set, and the very bottom of the crawl was at the very bottom of the screen. That's because the 4x3 sets all over scan. You've got to allow for that (as I tried to explain in the post just above yours).


My guess is they paid for the box that does it, and they're going to use it no matter what. They think this is what HD is all about - cool graphics that take away from the programming, and they as a group obviously don't care about broadcast quality of the programming. One out of five in 1080i and KET dropped 5.1 for some reason when they changed I assume.Are we really going to get into this argument again?

That's funny, I've been watching 18, and they've ran crawls (more snow coming!) under their school closings. I even watched on a 4x3 set, and the very bottom of the crawl was at the very bottom of the screen. That's because the 4x3 sets all over scan. You've got to allow for that (as I tried to explain in the post just above yours).

Are we really going to get into this argument again?I've only seen the crawl when the big blue monster wasn't there. I assume it's "on top" of the monster when you're seeing it together. My point was that there's nothing that the box that makes the monster will put in that area. I could be wrong, but I'm assuming the crawl is from another place, independent.

What argument? I'm just pointing out that the size of the graphic is larger than many I've seen from neighboring cities, and that fits into the idea of them not caring about basic PQ. There's no reason for all the dead space.

I didn't, and still don't, get the 4:3 reference. It makes sense for the silly logo placement you often see, but I can't wrap my brain around how it could affect all that blank space.

I hadn't noticed any reference to KET losing 5.1, so I brought it up as well.

What argument? I'm just pointing out that the size of the graphic is larger than many I've seen from neighboring cities, and that fits into the idea of them not caring about basic PQ. There's no reason for all the dead space.

I didn't, and still don't, get the 4:3 reference. It makes sense for the silly logo placement you often see, but I can't wrap my brain around how it could affect all that blank space. I had to drop my car off for some service this morning and in the "waiting area" was an old fashioned 4:3 TV. They happened to have 18 on at the time. What I'm trying to explain is the "older" TVs "overscanned". What that means is on 4:3 sets, the distance between the bottom line of the graphic (where schools had 'Closed Wednesday') and the bottom of the screen was not that big. In fact, when the crawl came up it seemed to fit the space just right. I'll grant you watching on an HDTV, it looks like there's a lot of room. But not everyone is watching on a big screen, and broadcasters still have to allow for those watching 4:3.

The argument I was hoping we wouldn't get into again was PQ. We're all in agreement having subchannels takes away from the 'network' PQ. But how many viewers would complain if Wazoo, MyTV, and (heaven forbid) CW were taken off? FWIW, those "weather stations" on KYT & TVQ take up VERY little bandwidth. The reason the stations run the 2nd channel is $$.

Also for what it's worth, I agree 100% closings shouldn't be up 24/7. Say from 5a-9a, then again during the evening news (5p-7p), and maybe overnight (midnight+).

I second lets not go there.. If you want the reasons why KET is configured as it is please search my posts in the archive since 1999 and you will find your answers.

Now as to why we dropped 5.1 for now..

Prior to October 1, 2009, the KET HD service was a stand alone system with its own server, satellite receivers, and graphics system. In October we integrated the HD service into the new Master Control system including the same servers that have been driving KET2,KET KY, and KET ED.

This resulted in 12,000+ files that were transfered from the old SD servers (which had run the 4 SD channels for years) being mixed in with the 400 HD files in the inventory.

Those 12,000 files have stereo audio on the main channels but can have different audio on the second and third audio pairs since they originated from analog tapes.

We have to process all the files to clear the second and third audio pairs before we can switch back to 5.1 operation otherwise we can get mixed audio on the air ( such as tone and barney audio mixed into the Brit coms).

We are still debugging the new system and its on the list but with the massive budget cut and staff reductions we took last year its a case of resource allocation.


So the quick solution was to switch all services back to stereo only and make sure that all the new files captured have the correct audio on the correct tracks.

The long term goal is to have all programs captured with 5.1 audio or upmixed stereo and downmix the audio during playback for the SD services while keeping 5.1 on the HD.

William

I had to drop my car off for some service this morning and in the "waiting area" was an old fashioned 4:3 TV. They happened to have 18 on at the time. What I'm trying to explain is the "older" TVs "overscanned". What that means is on 4:3 sets, the distance between the bottom line of the graphic (where schools had 'Closed Wednesday') and the bottom of the screen was not that big. In fact, when the crawl came up it seemed to fit the space just right. I'll grant you watching on an HDTV, it looks like there's a lot of room. But not everyone is watching on a big screen, and broadcasters still have to allow for those watching 4:3.

The argument I was hoping we wouldn't get into again was PQ. We're all in agreement having subchannels takes away from the 'network' PQ. But how many viewers would complain if Wazoo, MyTV, and (heaven forbid) CW were taken off? FWIW, those "weather stations" on KYT & TVQ take up VERY little bandwidth. The reason the stations run the 2nd channel is $$.

Also for what it's worth, I agree 100% closings shouldn't be up 24/7. Say from 5a-9a, then again during the evening news (5p-7p), and maybe overnight (midnight+).

I understand what you're saying as far as overscanning, and making it worse if you're bit-mapped, but not that this is the reason some stations use such large graphics. I set my display to overscan (they define this as 95%) and KYT (the smallest graphic by far) still had plenty of room at the bottom. TVQ had more and LEX had tons. I think it's just a form of station advertising like a lot of other stuff they do in the guise of "public service." Basically I'm saying whatever the individual rationale for the size of the graphics, it's not a technical decision, it's "something else."

My comment about local PQ was intentionally general. PBS/KET has its own issues and needs to be considered separately. My gripe isn't with the subs, it's with KYT, it's 30 year history of hacking me off, and my view that they had a chance to start over and do it right and they went out of their way (downconverting) to screw it up again. I'm reasonably confident that other CBS affiliates manage to maintain a 1080i network signal while still providing CW. I'm sure someone will correct me if that's wrong. There's an old saying in the stock market - nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Turn that around and it means if you buy something for your company, you're going to use it, otherwise you'd have to justify a useless purchase, and that's not going to happen.

They fell in love with the technology (as witnessed by the email someone posted here ages ago,) made a dumb decision (probably helped along by a friendly and knowledgeable salesman,) and now they're stuck with it. I haven't seen a word about the new channel and whether they'll take advantage of that to go to native resolution or not. Be pretty funny if they didn't.

William,

Thanks for the reply. So you're basically saying the audio issue is a back room file crunching problem, you're short staffed, but you're working on it. Good deal :)

... But how many viewers would complain if Wazoo, MyTV, and (heaven forbid) CW were taken off?

I could live without Wazoo or MyTV, I suspect that the majority of households in the DMA aren't even aware that those two "channels" exist.

The only reason I'd watch CWKYT is because WBKI is currently having HD feed issues and/or CWKYT is more convenient for DVR setup.

I understand what you're saying as far as overscanning, and making it worse if you're bit-mapped, but not that this is the reason some stations use such large graphics. I set my display to overscan (they define this as 95%) and KYT (the smallest graphic by far) still had plenty of room at the bottom. TVQ had more and LEX had tons. I think it's just a form of station advertising like a lot of other stuff they do in the guise of "public service." Basically I'm saying whatever the individual rationale for the size of the graphics, it's not a technical decision, it's "something else." All I can say is what I saw. Hook up an old TV set and look at the graphic. Do you still have all the room you thought you did. I actually went around to a couple older TVs at work yesterday to see how much space there was. Again, it's not as much as you'd think. Personally I've always been of the opinion that a font you can read on a 20" TV from across the room is big enough. If you have to be within 5' to read it, make it bigger.


My comment about local PQ was intentionally general. PBS/KET has its own issues and needs to be considered separately. My gripe isn't with the subs, it's with KYT, it's 30 year history of hacking me off, and my view that they had a chance to start over and do it right and they went out of their way (downconverting) to screw it up again. I'm reasonably confident that other CBS affiliates manage to maintain a 1080i network signal while still providing CW. I'm sure someone will correct me if that's wrong. There's an old saying in the stock market - nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Turn that around and it means if you buy something for your company, you're going to use it, otherwise you'd have to justify a useless purchase, and that's not going to happen.The problem is your analogy doesn't hold up. Stations buy a character generator to put on graphics. The character generator doesn't care whether the graphic takes up 10%, 20%, or even 100% of the screen. So the "box" is going to get used regardless of the graphic.


They fell in love with the technology (as witnessed by the email someone posted here ages ago,) made a dumb decision (probably helped along by a friendly and knowledgeable salesman,) and now they're stuck with it. I haven't seen a word about the new channel and whether they'll take advantage of that to go to native resolution or not. Be pretty funny if they didn't.Folks smarter than me have discussed on here the options KYT will have with the new channel. The first question would be whether the FCC allows them to continue operating on 13 after they cut over to 36. If that answer is "no", then it's a moot point.

If you don't like something a broadcaster is doing, contact them. Everyone has a contact page on their website. Use it.

I could live without Wazoo or MyTV, I suspect that the majority of households in the DMA aren't even aware that those two "channels" exist. Agreed. Just didn't want to show any favoritism.:cool:

The only reason I'd watch CWKYT is because WBKI is currently having HD feed issues and/or CWKYT is more convenient for DVR setup.But you've got to admit there's been plenty of discussion on this board about picture quality on CWKYT. How would those people feel if it wasn't there at all?

Has anyone else been having problems with KET, all 3 channels, breaking up and sound dropping out when watching on Insight? When I switch to OTA the problems disappear.

If you don't like something a broadcaster is doing, contact them. Everyone has a contact page on their website. Use it.

The gripe about KYT downconverting to 720p is legitimate IMO. Same thing for KET. Same thing goes for cable and sat services that downconvert. If bandwidth is insufficient, then find a way to do it without altering PQ--- and don't use the argument that it's already altered at multiple points before it gets to the station. That's still not justification for further altering it.

This thread is also a perfectly legitimate place to voice these concerns IMO. Now, if someone wants to voice them directly to the broadcaster that's OK too. Hopefully, someone will listen. At least William is for one.

The gripe about KYT downconverting to 720p is legitimate IMO. Same thing for KET. Same thing goes for cable and sat services that downconvert. If bandwidth is insufficient, then find a way to do it without altering PQ--- and don't use the argument that it's already altered at multiple points before it gets to the station. That's still not justification for further altering it.Any gripe is valid... to the person making the gripe. Regarding insufficient bandwidth... picture a big pipe. Let's say for the sake of argument you can fit up to 100 "taras". Now you can use 1 signal that takes up all 100 taras. Or you can put 2 signals in that each use 50 taras. Or 10 signals @ 10 taras, 100 signals at 1 tara, or any combination. That pipe is a fixed size. You can't put more "taras" into the pipe. So what broadcasters (cable, sat, and yes, OTA) have do is try to balance the quality of the signal with quantity of the signal. If you give more bandwidth to increase the quality of one signal, you decrease the quality of another. Go to a message board for cable & satellite subscribers. Want to make a bet those complaining about poor picture quality are the same ones who want more HD channels? The easy solution is to drop the quantity. However, then you lose viewers to those channels. And sometimes the people who own the "little" channels also own the "big" channels. So if ABC told DirecTV "sure, you don't have to carry ABC Family, but if you don't, you don't get ESPN." What do you think DirecTV is going to do? They're going to give up the bandwidth to air ABC Family.


This thread is also a perfectly legitimate place to voice these concerns IMO. Now, if someone wants to voice them directly to the broadcaster that's OK too. Hopefully, someone will listen. At least William is for one.I agree. This is a place to voice concerns. However, if you want something to change, posting here will do VERY little. That's my point. You think if viewers started flooding email & voice mail boxes of station decision makers about the size of graphics, something might get done? Or do you really hope one of the "lurkers" here will read a post (or many posts) and go to the boss and say "we need to shrink the graphics"?

One out of five in 1080i

Like it would be better if WTVQ and WDKY were 1080i? I'm so confused! Somewhere I thought read that progressive is better than interlaced, and less processed is better than more processed (like it's bad to turn a 720p network feed into 1080i and versa-vice). FWIW, Fox looks dang good on my 52" set. Now as to why WKYT is compressing their signal, well they might need to make room for the second money making channel. Somebody needs to pay for their new "Super Duper Doppler." (I still don't know why they didn't let me name it.) Broadcasters were all hit pretty hard by the economic downturn that occurred in the middle of the DTV transition. Just plan bad timing on that one!

Wouldn't it be better to note which stations pass along their network unconverted instead of touting "1080i" like it's the only true HD standard?

Coming soon to a TV near you, TheCoolTV..... Sinclair signed a deal with them, so I suspect that WDKY will carry it on 56.2 shortly. (please don't shoot the messenger)

Like it would be better if WTVQ and WDKY were 1080i? I thought LEX & DKY were the only 1080i.
Somewhere I thought read that progressive is better than interlaced, I think that would be the case as long as your comparing the same resolution (ie: 1080p is better than 1080i, 720p is better than 720i. 1080i vs. 720p... about the same)

and less processed is better than more processed (like it's bad to turn a 720p network feed into 1080i and versa-vice). That is true. The more you can keep native, the better off you are.

Now as to why WKYT is compressing their signal, well they might need to make room for the second money making channel. Somebody needs to pay for their new "Super Duper Doppler." (I still don't know why they didn't let me name it.) Ding, ding, ding. You hit it on the nose. In order to put the subchannels out (and they bring in $$), you've got to rob bandwidth from the primary.

Broadcasters were all hit pretty hard by the economic downturn that occurred in the middle of the DTV transition. Just plan bad timing on that one!Keep in mind the stations had been broadcasting DTV for years before the final transition. I'd say the downturn hit at the end of DTV. As far as upgrading facilities to originate HD... I think most of Lexington was already done before the hard stuff hit. KYT and LEX converted in 07. If they would have waited a year or two, I don't know if they would have done it.


Wouldn't it be better to note which stations pass along their network unconverted instead of touting "1080i" like it's the only true HD standard?I believe LEX, DKY (both 1080i) and TVQ (720) are all passing along network "as is". Only KYT is converting (from CBS' 1080 to 720).


Coming soon to a TV near you, TheCoolTV..... Sinclair signed a deal with them, so I suspect that WDKY will carry it on 56.2 shortly. (please don't shoot the messenger)And then there were none... (full bandwidth network feeds):mad:

And then there were none... (full bandwidth network feeds):mad:

WDKY will still have one. Thank the Fox splicer.

- Trip

WDKY will still have one. Thank the Fox splicer.

- Trip

:confused:

Can you explain please?

Fox delivers a pre-compressed 720P feed via satellite that leave enough room for the station to add a local SD service.

:confused:

Can you explain please?

William Smith has the correct answer. Fox provides its affiliates with a stream already prepared to accept a subchannel. Even now, with WDKY airing only its HD feed, the network HD feed never gets above 16.5 Mbps, and as it's variable bitrate, is often lower. As such, any Fox station adding an SD subchannel is doing no damage to the HD feed.

The splicer shapes any additional SD services to fit the remaining bandwidth.

- Trip

Oh. For some reason I thought DKY was 1080. Does that mean LEX is the only station doing 1080?

Keep in mind the stations had been broadcasting DTV for years before the final transition. I'd say the downturn hit at the end of DTV. As far as upgrading facilities to originate HD... I think most of Lexington was already done before the hard stuff hit. KYT and LEX converted in 07. If they would have waited a year or two, I don't know if they would have done it.


While this is true, many station groups have had to renegotiate their bank loans that were used to purchase the digital equipment. This left more than one group on the verge of (or in) bankruptcy. It's like buying the big house a few years before you loose your job. You buy the house, the lawn mower, and new furniture. You pile up debt knowing it will take a five or ten difficult years of overtime to pay for it, then wham! you are out of work (and your variable interest rate increased). So you take two or three low paying part time jobs to pay the bills so you can keep the house. It's not how you planned to pay for the house, but you are doing everything you can. Many stations are just trying to survive, and they are working on a new business model. The old broadcast model is twenty years out of date thanks to satellite and the internet. ESPN charges $5 a sub, and we wonder why the broadcast networks can't outbid them for sports rights. Things are changing!

Oh. For some reason I thought DKY was 1080. Does that mean LEX is the only station doing 1080?

In Lexington, yes.

OTOH, I still can't understand Belo's(WHAS) insistence on using 1080i on an ABC affiliate ... then piling two 480i sub-channels on top of it.

In Lexington, yes.

OTOH, I still can't understand Belo's(WHAS) insistence on using 1080i on an ABC affiliate ... then piling two 480i sub-channels on top of it.
You're right. That doesn't make sense.

There's no certainty for CWKYT to go back to HD for the OTA viewers (currently pending HD for ONLY Insight in Lex, no one else.. a kind of unfairness, but whatever.. it is convenient and do-able for them I guess).

Anyhow media delivery services are indeed changing. Just today I read the 2nd most popular video distribution channel online (hulu.com) is prepared to work with Apple to be able to sell TV shows for use on the iPad. I think hulu.com is preparing to switch to some kind of pricing model as well. I actually know several households that completely dumped cable\satellite and rely on OTA and hulu to enjoy TV. Every one of them has told me there aren't going back to cable or satellite cause they are saving so much money. If hulu starts charging a service fee to share the TV shows they are hosting if the price beats cable and satellite and the signal is high-def format I am willing to bet more and more cash-strapped families would choose that over cable\satellite TV service. On the flip side broadband Internet services keep creeping up in cost, but there is still savings to realize (even though TWC costs me almost $60/month for just broadband Internet) because the viewer can be very selective about what they want to watch and are not paying for ESPN for example if they never watch any sports. Times are changing

Like it would be better if WTVQ and WDKY were 1080i? I'm so confused! Somewhere I thought read that progressive is better than interlaced, and less processed is better than more processed (like it's bad to turn a 720p network feed into 1080i and versa-vice). FWIW, Fox looks dang good on my 52" set. Now as to why WKYT is compressing their signal, well they might need to make room for the second money making channel. Somebody needs to pay for their new "Super Duper Doppler." (I still don't know why they didn't let me name it.) Broadcasters were all hit pretty hard by the economic downturn that occurred in the middle of the DTV transition. Just plan bad timing on that one!

Wouldn't it be better to note which stations pass along their network unconverted instead of touting "1080i" like it's the only true HD standard?

Coming soon to a TV near you, TheCoolTV..... Sinclair signed a deal with them, so I suspect that WDKY will carry it on 56.2 shortly. (please don't shoot the messenger)LOL, that's the argument I thought sam was referring to above. The 720p v. 1080i one. I'm going back probably 15 years or more here, but I remember reading an in depth interview with Joe Kane where he was strongly promoting 720p as the standard for broadcast HD. Now, go to one of these city forums with a pro football team and they seem to hate 720p. Whatever, I couldn't care less, and I wasn't in any way intending to say that 1080i was better. My feeling is that there are so many variables, the end user can't make rational decision just based on what he sees at home.

I'm strictly OTA and for me here in the Lexington area, DKY has the best PQ for scripted dramas. SNL can be startling sometimes, HD live over a good antenna is pretty impressive when everything is working. I've always heard that upconverting is a lot easier than down-converting btw.

Like it would be better if WTVQ and WDKY were 1080i? I'm so confused! Somewhere I thought read that progressive is better than interlaced, and less processed is better than more processed (like it's bad to turn a 720p network feed into 1080i and versa-vice). FWIW, Fox looks dang good on my 52" set. Now as to why WKYT is compressing their signal, well they might need to make room for the second money making channel. Somebody needs to pay for their new "Super Duper Doppler." (I still don't know why they didn't let me name it.) Broadcasters were all hit pretty hard by the economic downturn that occurred in the middle of the DTV transition. Just plan bad timing on that one!

Wouldn't it be better to note which stations pass along their network unconverted instead of touting "1080i" like it's the only true HD standard?

Coming soon to a TV near you, TheCoolTV..... Sinclair signed a deal with them, so I suspect that WDKY will carry it on 56.2 shortly. (please don't shoot the messenger)

You have it right. Digital TV has given local broadcasters too much temptation to try to "improve the bottom line" and cram more channels into their broadcast. AFAIK, they did OK for years with one channel each under NTSC:rolleyes: Now, instead of improving the overall quality delivered to consumers, what happens is the quality is just "OK" as the broadcasters succumb to the temptation for quantity over quality. The problem is that if no one decides to watch those extra channels then nobody wins: The broadcasters are no better off and neither do we get the best PQ that ATSC has to offer.

At this point, it's been what 15 years of this and my impression is that, other than for weather, the penetration subchannels have had into the market is minimal.

The problem is that if no one decides to watch those extra channels then nobody wins: The broadcasters are no better off and neither do we get the best PQ that ATSC has to offer.
Do the broadcasters get any $$ for carrying the extra channels? If they do, then they ARE better off... they're making more $$ without a lot of expenditure.

Do the broadcasters get any $$ for carrying the extra channels? If they do, then they ARE better off... they're making more $$ without a lot of expenditure.Yeah, that's what Ford said about the Pinto. If they're network affiliates, they should be obligated to air network programming, at the very least all prime time programming, not just what they happen to feel like airing. And to air it with the best quality signal they can.

People have a funny ability to only see one side of the equation. Affiliates have been whining about the networks for years. Simple solution - go independent ... find your own content. But not a lot of them seem to be doing that. They want the benefits of network affiliation, but not the responsibility. And the viewing public pays the price. Same old, same old, but now they have more tools to screw us.

Do the broadcasters get any $$ for carrying the extra channels? If they do, then they ARE better off... they're making more $$ without a lot of expenditure.

Only if the viewership is there. If no one is watching, the revenues won't be there and what happens is the subchannel just feeds off the revenue from the main channel. In effect, you get two lesser quality channels for the cost/revenue of one while other non-OTA, non-network sources for programming continue to erode the overall market share. As other sources for broadcast TV i.e. streaming video continue to improve, broadcasters may ultimately find their viewership dropping unless they take full advantage of the better PQ ATSC can provide. The answer is NOT to more tightly regulate streaming video, etc. IMO but rather allow competition to have the effect it should.

Yeah, that's what Ford said about the Pinto. If they're network affiliates, they should be obligated to air network programming, at the very least all prime time programming, not just what they happen to feel like airing. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but have we had a problem in Lexington with the affils pre-empting network programming? I know KYT occasionally preempts to show SEC basketball, but they show the non-UK games as part of the contract so they can show the UK games. And to air it with the best quality signal they can. Something tells me the affil's agreement with network doesn't have that statement in there. With DTV, quality is a subjective measurement (until you get to extremes).

People have a funny ability to only see one side of the equation. Affiliates have been whining about the networks for years. Simple solution - go independent ... find your own content. But not a lot of them seem to be doing that. They want the benefits of network affiliation, but not the responsibility. And the viewing public pays the price. Same old, same old, but now they have more tools to screw us.Yes, it's a conspiracy. All the broadcasters sit around and think "how can we screw our viewers.":rolleyes: If that was the case, no one would be airing HD. They'd downconvert the network feed to SD, and put in a couple more subchannels. THAT'S the argument I didn't want to get into earlier.

Only if the viewership is there. If no one is watching, the revenues won't be there and what happens is the subchannel just feeds off the revenue from the main channel. Do the subchannel networks (Wazoo, CW, & MyTV) not pay the Lexington broadcasters in order to be carried? I can't imagine the broadcasters rely solely on the ad revenue from those stations.
As other sources for broadcast TV i.e. streaming video continue to improve, broadcasters may ultimately find their viewership dropping unless they take full advantage of the better PQ ATSC can provide. The answer is NOT to more tightly regulate streaming video, etc. IMO but rather allow competition to have the effect it should.
Has anyone here stopped watching the local affils? I realize there are some people across the country who have given up broadcast and just relied on broadband/rental, but I hazard a guess those are a handful of people (and I'd say most of those gave up cable/sat, not OTA). I also think it's a minority of viewers who can even detect the stations aren't using the full picture quality they can.

Do the subchannel networks (Wazoo, CW, & MyTV) not pay the Lexington broadcasters in order to be carried? I can't imagine the broadcasters rely solely on the ad revenue from those stations.

It really doesn't matter whether they do or not. Revenue will always ultimately be tied to viewership. The subchannel networks aren't likely to be giving out any free money.;)


Has anyone here stopped watching the local affils? I realize there are some people across the country who have given up broadcast and just relied on broadband/rental, but I hazard a guess those are a handful of people (and I'd say most of those gave up cable/sat, not OTA). I also think it's a minority of viewers who can even detect the stations aren't using the full picture quality they can.

That's what broadcasters are counting on.

25 years ago, I don't remember radio broadcasters predicting their own demise either.

With DTV, quality is a subjective measurement (until you get to extremes).



:confused:

Not sure what you mean by this. Both video and audio quality are ridiculously easy to measure with digital TV. Maybe you are trying to say that people can't really tell the difference? I don't believe that is true either if you have a readily available standard to compare it to. Now, if the channel happens to be the only source for that particular program you have, then it may be hard to tell.

"Ignorance is bliss", isn't that really what you are referring to?

Both video and audio quality are ridiculously easy to measure with digital TV.

There's a great discussion illustrating sam_gordon's point in the Springfield MO thread. KSPR recently went from having only ABC-HD on 33-1 to doing dual HD with CW on 33-2. Half the people in the thread thing it looks like total trash and they don't want to watch it anymore, while the other half of people don't see any difference. Both groups are watching it on HDTVs.

There's also the fact that you cannot simply look at bitrates to determine which one has the best quality, if this is what you mean by "ridiculously easy." A TV station with no subchannels and maxed out bitrate but an encoder which dates to 1998 will probably look worse than a station with a subchannel or two running the latest and greatest from Harmonic.

- Trip

There's a great discussion illustrating sam_gordon's point in the Springfield MO thread. KSPR recently went from having only ABC-HD on 33-1 to doing dual HD with CW on 33-2. Half the people in the thread thing it looks like total trash and they don't want to watch it anymore, while the other half of people don't see any difference. Both groups are watching it on HDTVs.

There's also the fact that you cannot simply look at bitrates to determine which one has the best quality, if this is what you mean by "ridiculously easy." A TV station with no subchannels and maxed out bitrate but an encoder which dates to 1998 will probably look worse than a station with a subchannel or two running the latest and greatest from Harmonic.

- Trip

It's easy to muddle the discussion with this sort of topic and then create difficulty in "proving the point". I'm not interested in that. Everyone knows what is happening with downconversion/overcompression/bitstarving and cramming too many channels into the allotted space.

Measuring bitrates and also considering encoding/decoding/compression algorithms etc. is complicated and obtuse enough that anyone with a little knowledge on the subject can find a way to argue pretty much either side of the topic. It will always be the provider arguing that it is "enough" for PQ and oh by the way have you seen our other channel(s)?:rolleyes:

I know when I'm watching CBS and my display tells me it's 720p something is wrong.

The bottom line is that the broadcasters believe they are incentivised to give us quantity over quality. I think if they push too far it will backfire. I'm also thankful that at this point I still have a choice in where I get my programming.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but have we had a problem in Lexington with the affils pre-empting network programming? I know KYT occasionally preempts to show SEC basketball, but they show the non-UK games as part of the contract so they can show the UK games.You just proved to me that you have an agenda, and you'll say anything to support it, no matter how silly. First you imply that there's no problem with network programming being preempted, then you admit there is, but try to minimize it. There's nothing "occasional" about it, it's every week. Other areas I've lived, local sports is tape delayed, so there's an option.

Interestingly, that wasn't what I was thinking of. KYT routinely cuts off live network programming that runs over into scheduled local programming. They've been doing it for decades, they've gotten in trouble for it more than once, they've lied about it (direct quotes from station management in the local paper.)

Something tells me the affil's agreement with network doesn't have that statement in there. With DTV, quality is a subjective measurement (until you get to extremes). They have a contract with me, the viewer. And there's no way for me or you to know what their legal obligations are with the network. I called Buena Vista several years ago with an issue about TVQ. I was told what they were doing, as they stated to me, was in violation of their contract and they'd have their legal dept. give the station a call. The problem ceased.

Yes, it's a conspiracy. All the broadcasters sit around and think "how can we screw our viewers.":rolleyes: If that was the case, no one would be airing HD. They'd downconvert the network feed to SD, and put in a couple more subchannels. THAT'S the argument I didn't want to get into earlier.I'm being screwed from my perspective. From their perspective, they're enhancing profit. And yes, I'm pretty sure they sit around thinking up ways to do it, and some of those ways reduce the quality of their broadcast, whether it be increased ad time from the network, or local stations reducing PQ of network programming so as to broadcast more local content (in terms of ad revenue) on subs, as if preempting network programming to make room for local wasn't enough for them.

I can't believe, living in this area, that you would ridicule my statement. Here's a tip, google "Toyota acceleration" and see if you get any hits. If you should happen to, read up on how long they knew of the problem, how long they kept it hidden, how many people were killed or injured because of it, etc. Corporations have a long history of "screwing" their customers if it serves the corp's financial interests. This is a given and no sane person would deny it.

Anybody with TSReader or something similiar that can look at the Lex locals streams and see if one or more of the stations are sending out erroneous time and/or DST info?

My Dish PalDVR is off one hour in the time and/or EPG or the DST flag is getting set erroneously.
It could easily be a PalDVR issue, but as rinky dink as the Lex locals are, it could just as easily be one or more of the locals screwing up(with the exception of KET of course ;) ).

Thanks.

Anybody with TSReader or something similiar that can look at the Lex locals streams and see if one or more of the stations are sending out erroneous time and/or DST info?

My Dish PalDVR is off one hour in the time and/or EPG or the DST flag is getting set erroneously.
It could easily be a PalDVR issue, but as rinky dink as the Lex locals are, it could just as easily be one or more of the locals screwing up(with the exception of KET of course ;) ).

Thanks.
The easy one first... I don't think anyone is sending out a time flag. I could be wrong.

:confused:

Not sure what you mean by this. Both video and audio quality are ridiculously easy to measure with digital TV.Then how do you propose to do it? As has been mentioned, you can't just look at bitrates. So how do you "easily" measure quality?
Maybe you are trying to say that people can't really tell the difference? I don't believe that is true either if you have a readily available standard to compare it to. Now, if the channel happens to be the only source for that particular program you have, then it may be hard to tell. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you don't have a full bandwidth HD signal to compare to, most people probably wouldn't know how compression affects the signal... until it gets TOO compressed.

Measuring bitrates and also considering encoding/decoding/compression algorithms etc. is complicated and obtuse enough that anyone with a little knowledge on the subject can find a way to argue pretty much either side of the topic. It will always be the provider arguing that it is "enough" for PQ and oh by the way have you seen our other channel(s)?:rolleyes:But I thought you said it was easy to measure quality.

I know when I'm watching CBS and my display tells me it's 720p something is wrong.Keep in mind, you're the exception. Do you really think the majority of viewers even pay attention to 720/1080 much less know if an affiliate is changing from one to the other?


The bottom line is that the broadcasters believe they are incentivised to give us quantity over quality. I think if they push too far it will backfire. I'm also thankful that at this point I still have a choice in where I get my programming.I agree with you 100% If broadcasters do too much compression, viewers will tune them out. However, most people seem to complain about the CONTENT, not the quality.

You just proved to me that you have an agenda, and you'll say anything to support it, no matter how silly. First you imply that there's no problem with network programming being preempted, then you admit there is, but try to minimize it. There's nothing "occasional" about it, it's every week. Other areas I've lived, local sports is tape delayed, so there's an option.Ummm, no. I really hadn't heard of a problem with pre-empting network programming, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SEC SPORTS, so I was asking if that was what you were referring to. Apparently it is. Let me explain something to you. This is the heart of UK Wildcat country. The basketball team's coach even acknowledges the fans are "crazy". WKYT brings in a lot of money by being the local affiliate. However, in order to show UK games, they need to air other SEC games. I guarantee you they have an agreement with CBS to do so.


Interestingly, that wasn't what I was thinking of. KYT routinely cuts off live network programming that runs over into scheduled local programming. They've been doing it for decades, they've gotten in trouble for it more than once, they've lied about it (direct quotes from station management in the local paper.)KYT has cut off CBS to go to what? Local news? Syndication? I don't know. I don't watch local TV:p. Please, educate me.


They have a contract with me, the viewer.Really? I don't remember anyone asking me to sign something so I can watch them. What's in the contract that YOU have to uphold?

And there's no way for me or you to know what their legal obligations are with the network. I called Buena Vista several years ago with an issue about TVQ. I was told what they were doing, as they stated to me, was in violation of their contract and they'd have their legal dept. give the station a call. The problem ceased. So, then why not call CBS and complain about KYT?


I'm being screwed from my perspective. From their perspective, they're enhancing profit. And yes, I'm pretty sure they sit around thinking up ways to do it, and some of those ways reduce the quality of their broadcast, whether it be increased ad time from the network, or local stations reducing PQ of network programming so as to broadcast more local content (in terms of ad revenue) on subs, as if preempting network programming to make room for local wasn't enough for them.

I can't believe, living in this area, that you would ridicule my statement. Here's a tip, google "Toyota acceleration" and see if you get any hits. If you should happen to, read up on how long they knew of the problem, how long they kept it hidden, how many people were killed or injured because of it, etc. Corporations have a long history of "screwing" their customers if it serves the corp's financial interests. This is a given and no sane person would deny it.[/quote]So businesses (and that's what broadcasters are, KET excluded) shouldn't try to increase their profit? And now you're comparing reduced PQ to injuring and killing people? Ohhhh kaaaay.
I still say if PQ gets bad enough to turn off enough viewers (and it's going to be hard to prove it's PQ making people change the channel and not the content on the screen), then stations will increase quality.

But I thought you said it was easy to measure quality.
Keep in mind, you're the exception. Do you really think the majority of viewers even pay attention to 720/1080 much less know if an affiliate is changing from one to the other?



It is easy. Especially on-topic here. 720p means KYT is providing less video information than was originally intended by the network. Less relative space given to the specific channel out of the available 18mb/s allocated (or thereabouts) also translates to less data and decreased data means less quality. Whether someone who doesn't really care, or know, or has bad vision, or a small display, or a 20 foot viewing distance, or doesn't have a baseline to compare to and thus doesn't know any better is another issue altogether---it's still less.


The other issue with 720p downconversion of 1080i is that deinterlacing is being done by the station which compounds the problem. Most modern displays (not to mention dedicated video processors) can do a much better job of this.

Since when do we say something is "OK" simply because the perception is that most won't notice???

It is easy. Especially on-topic here. 720p means KYT is providing less video information than was originally intended by the network. Less relative space given to the specific channel out of the available 18mb/s allocated (or thereabouts) also translates to less data and decreased data means less quality. Whether someone who doesn't really care, or know, or has bad vision, or a small display, or a 20 foot viewing distance, or doesn't have a baseline to compare to and thus doesn't know any better is another issue altogether---it's still less.
So stations shouldn't compress at all? They should give viewers the pure signal?

Ever use a .zip file on your computer? That's compressed. Therefore you're getting less data, and according to you decreased data equals less quality. After all, everything is data now.


Since when do we say something is "OK" simply because the perception is that most won't notice???That's nothing new (in television or elsewhere). If 99% of consumers are happy with a product, and only 1% aren't, do you try to satisfy the 99% or the 1% (especially if the 1% means less $$ in the coffers?)?

Let me add... I agree stations can over compress the signal. My point is where the line between "allowed" compression and "over" compression lies.

As you pointed out, a "full" HD signal is ~18mbs. Think you'd notice a problem if that's compressed to 17mbs? 16? I'm sure you'd notice at 10. So... that "acceptable" line is somewhere between the 10 & 18. You apparently think the line is at 18 (correct me if I'm wrong). I feel you can get down to the 16/15 range and not have a problem.

Going between 1080i & 720p I haven't heard of a definitive "winner" yet... 720p handles motion better, but 1080 gives you more resolution. I'd say going from 1080i to 720p is a wash (if they went to 720i, I'd agree with you).

Let me add... I agree stations can over compress the signal. My point is where the line between "allowed" compression and "over" compression lies.

As you pointed out, a "full" HD signal is ~18mbs. Think you'd notice a problem if that's compressed to 17mbs? 16? I'm sure you'd notice at 10. So... that "acceptable" line is somewhere between the 10 & 18. You apparently think the line is at 18 (correct me if I'm wrong). I feel you can get down to the 16/15 range and not have a problem.

Going between 1080i & 720p I haven't heard of a definitive "winner" yet... 720p handles motion better, but 1080 gives you more resolution. I'd say going from 1080i to 720p is a wash (if they went to 720i, I'd agree with you).

I don't really have much of a problem with 1080i plus a weather channel or even a full SD channel. I'd rather they provided a single channel at 1080i but I'm not idealistic enough to really expect it will happen very often and will continue to be fairly uncommon.

What KYT and KET are doing is quite different however. The original network resolution shouldn't be altered. The reason behind it is obvious: they're both trying to provide more programming than was intended for the allocated space.

This isn't an argument of 1080i vs. 720p. I wouldn't agree with TVQ "upconverting" to 1080i either if they decided to for some odd reason.

Downconverting the original network 1080i to 720p is intentionally "cheating" to save bandwidth pure and simple IMO. If KYT wants to be a 720p network affiliate, then they should call FOX or ABC;). Otherwise, CBS affiliates should provide a 1080i signal to their viewers as intended by the network.

Now I'll add something. :)

You could make the case for KET getting a "pass" for this. In other words, the benefits of educational programming outweigh the PQ issues. However, KYT doesn't deserve the same pass.

Downconverting the original network 1080i to 720p is intentionally "cheating" to save bandwidth pure and simple IMO.50% agree. I agree they are "cheating" in order to save bandwidth. But I don't agree going from 1080i to 720p is "downconverting". I'd call it "crossconverting".;)

If KYT wants to be a 720p network affiliate, then they should call FOX or ABC;).I don't think it's that easy though. I hope you weren't being serious.
Otherwise, CBS affiliates should provide a 1080i signal to their viewers as intended by the network.But there are also stations (none in Lexington fortunately) that don't even put out an HD signal... EVERYTHING is SD. Should they have to drop their affiliation?

50% agree. I agree they are "cheating" in order to save bandwidth. But I don't agree going from 1080i to 720p is "downconverting". I'd call it "crossconverting".;)

I don't think it's that easy though. I hope you weren't being serious.
But there are also stations (none in Lexington fortunately) that don't even put out an HD signal... EVERYTHING is SD. Should they have to drop their affiliation?

Well, I'm being somewhat serious in that the affiliate should be true to the network's intended signal.

Even though both are considered "HD" I wouldn't use the term cross-conversion as that suggests equivalent resolutions/data rate. If it's simply a cross-conversion, then why would KYT/KET go to the trouble?:) 1080i to 720p is technically downconverting as the total data rate is less for 720p, thus the bandwidth advantages to 720p.

Major network affiliates still only providing an SD signal only are uncommon and for the most part are simply leftover from the transition. If they are providing SD expressly for the intent of saving bandwidth and providing multiple channels, then yes they should drop IMO and someone else should pick it up and provide the proper signal. Furthermore, the network itself should require it. Should CBS require KYT to provide 1080i? Yes, IMO, but I doubt it will happen. I suspect they aren't exactly thrilled about it though.

Ummm, no. I really hadn't heard of a problem with pre-empting network programming, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SEC SPORTS, so I was asking if that was what you were referring to. Apparently it is. Let me explain something to you. This is the heart of UK Wildcat country. The basketball team's coach even acknowledges the fans are "crazy". WKYT brings in a lot of money by being the local affiliate. However, in order to show UK games, they need to air other SEC games. I guarantee you they have an agreement with CBS to do so. They could always put it on a sub lol - the PQ wouldn't suffer much.

KYT has cut off CBS to go to what? Local news? Syndication? I don't know. I don't watch local TV:p. Please, educate me.The issue is viewing network TV, then the local affiliate stops airing the network program (live of course) to air local content. It can be anything - if it's not network, it's local, since the ad revenue is locally generated for the most part. Now they're putting the network on a sub in such a case as far as I can tell.

Really? I don't remember anyone asking me to sign something so I can watch them. You don't have to since they're the sole source for CBS programming unless you're lucky enough to live where you can reach Louisville or Cincinnati. What I give up is the choice to watch another channel for my CBS programming - that makes them obligated to air CBS programming.

So, then why not call CBS and complain about KYT?I would complain to the FCC if anywhere, but when I was talking to the station several years ago to complain about them having taken off the Men's Final of the US Open to air local news (after running a crawl for at least an hour saying they wouldn't) he (assistant station manager or some such title) eagerly offered to give me the proper FCC address for mailing a complaint. Since the guy was nothing but double-talk and PR 101 nonsense, that told me he knew that it wouldn't matter. Still, I've gone through the motions with an online complaint against them ... maybe if the pile gets big enough.

So businesses (and that's what broadcasters are, KET excluded) shouldn't try to increase their profit? And now you're comparing reduced PQ to injuring and killing people? Ohhhh kaaaay.Not sure if it's your meaning, but you seem to be saying it's okay to knowingly kill a few innocent people if it increases profit. I would disagree. My point was, that if a large corporation was willing to kill some folks to increase profit (or avoid decreasing profit) then messing with my PQ would probably be okay too.
I still say if PQ gets bad enough to turn off enough viewers (and it's going to be hard to prove it's PQ making people change the channel and not the content on the screen), then stations will increase quality.Never happen, and in that we're in total agreement. Every single person I knew in the VCR days, who regularly time-shifted, used slp. Every VCR I ever owned was S-VHS. The only way we'll get what we could is if my dream comes true - the networks go to a pay system. Sounds silly, but i don't think it's beyond the possible. The network-affiliate model is dead according to most, so something is going to change in the next decade or so.

Look at the competition though - streaming and such where the quality is questionable at best, but most love it. It's just "TV." But HBO has lasted for years with quality content as it's selling point, and many cable channels now are jumping on the quality content bandwagon. A quality picture, done right (which almost no one sees now) might just sell if supported with content.

They could always put it on a sub lol - the PQ wouldn't suffer much. Depends on how the contract with the SEC is written. KYT has been preempting CBS programming for SEC sports for at least the 20 years I've been in town. It really has nothing to do with digital.


The issue is viewing network TV, then the local affiliate stops airing the network program (live of course) to air local content. It can be anything - if it's not network, it's local, since the ad revenue is locally generated for the most part. Now they're putting the network on a sub in such a case as far as I can tell.And all I'm asking is give me an example (or two) where KYT has done this, with the exception of SEC sports.


You don't have to since they're the sole source for CBS programming unless you're lucky enough to live where you can reach Louisville or Cincinnati. What I give up is the choice to watch another channel for my CBS programming - that makes them obligated to air CBS programming. I would think their contract with CBS would make them obligated to show their programming. Again, in this supposed "contract" between a station and a viewer, what are you supposed to do to uphold your portion of the contract?


I would complain to the FCC if anywhere, but when I was talking to the station several years ago to complain about them having taken off the Men's Final of the US Open to air local news (after running a crawl for at least an hour saying they wouldn't) he (assistant station manager or some such title) eagerly offered to give me the proper FCC address for mailing a complaint. Since the guy was nothing but double-talk and PR 101 nonsense, that told me he knew that it wouldn't matter. Still, I've gone through the motions with an online complaint against them ... maybe if the pile gets big enough.You know why he told you that... because the FCC has nothing to say in what programming a station airs (with the exception of the "seven bad words"/nudity/etc). You need to contact the network.


Not sure if it's your meaning, but you seem to be saying it's okay to knowingly kill a few innocent people if it increases profit. I would disagree. My point was, that if a large corporation was willing to kill some folks to increase profit (or avoid decreasing profit) then messing with my PQ would probably be okay too.I'd agree with you if it was the same person making the decision. My point is compression is not always bad. And what one person sees as bad PQ, many might not. Stations are trying to find that "line" between acceptable and bad PQ.


Never happen, and in that we're in total agreement. Every single person I knew in the VCR days, who regularly time-shifted, used slp. Every VCR I ever owned was S-VHS. The only way we'll get what we could is if my dream comes true - the networks go to a pay system. Sounds silly, but i don't think it's beyond the possible. The network-affiliate model is dead according to most, so something is going to change in the next decade or so. I agree it's possible, but way off in the future if it happens.


Look at the competition though - streaming and such where the quality is questionable at best, but most love it. It's just "TV." But HBO has lasted for years with quality content as it's selling point, and many cable channels now are jumping on the quality content bandwagon. A quality picture, done right (which almost no one sees now) might just sell if supported with content.But a quality picture (even done right) won't sell if it's not supported with content. Bad content won't bring in viewers no matter how pretty the pictures are. Good content will get eyes regardless of the PQ.

I know, a little bit off topic but Dick worked in this market, and he was a friend of mine.

IN MEMORIAM — DICK STILSON

Dick was born on October 15, 1935 He graduated from high school in Youngstown Ohio. After high school he joined the Army. In 1955, his first job out of the Army was at a 250 watt radio station in Youngstown, WBBY.

In 1958, Dick moved on to WYTV in Youngstown. This small television station had the transmitter and control room all in one room. Dick did it all, he switched between cameras, ran audio, and he also spun the records all during the same dance show broadcast. The first "Dick" moment happened while at WYTV. During a local newscast, Dick was on duty, the Newsman was short on copy so he asked Dick to go to the AP wire and rip him a few pages of copy. While doing so, Dick also inserted three pages of copy written in GERMAN. That's our Dick!

In 1960 Dick moved on to a better climate, Hawaii, working for KMVI and KULA. To help make ends meet, Dick also was a part time disk jockey around the islands and believe it or not, sold used cars in his spare time. A moment in Hawaii that sticks out was his working for ABC in the filming of the 20th anniversary of Pearl Harbor. He was a camera operator floating on a barge in the harbor for three days.

After three years in Hawaii, Richard moved to Cleveland, to WJW-TV, where he worked on the remote crew for the Browns games and also was the Technical Director for all the Cleveland Indians games.

From WJW TV Dick took a job at Purdue University in Lafayette, Indiana working for the Midwest Airborne Educational Facility. To say this job was up in the air is really saying something! His control room was inside a 4 engine, DC-6 aircraft. This aircraft would fly in a designed pattern, while lowering a 24foot TV broadcast antenna from the belly of the plane. While flying in a figure eight pattern at 23,000 feet, the MPATI plane was able to broadcast instructional television programming to schools in six Midwestern states (Indiana, OHIO, Illinois, Michigan, Kentucky, and Wisconsin). The flights took place in the same figure eight pattern over Indiana for six hours each school day. The 2,000 miles flown in just one day was the equivalent of a flight from St. Louis to Los Angeles.

The next stop on the Stilson tour was at WLEX in Lexington Kentucky. While at WLEX, he attended technical school to learn 2 inch video tape machines. When he got back, he installed all the tape machines at the station.

WLWC, now known as WCMH, was his next stop. That stop at WLWC did not last long. Dick entered the printing business with his brother-in-law in Albuquerque, NM. The printing business wasn't all he hoped it would be.

Dick returned to Columbus and began working for Ohio Public TV. While there he helped with the installation of their tape machines. Then he returned to WLWC again for a brief stint as a vacation relief engineer.

In 1976, Dick began working with us at WTVN, now WSYX-TV. Dick loved his job enough that at 74, he still had not retired. In December 2009, Dick became ill and fought hard until February 11, 2010 when Richard F. Stilson passed away. He leaves behind a wife (Maggie) of 42 years, 3 grown kids and several grandkids. He was a wonderful man, many of us have been through a lot with Dick, and we miss him!

Depends on how the contract with the SEC is written. KYT has been preempting CBS programming for SEC sports for at least the 20 years I've been in town. It really has nothing to do with digital.

LOL ... and that's the crux of my frustration with WKYT. Digital multicasting was supposed to have resolved that issue. Instead, we still have the CBS preemptions, but now as an added bonus, we also get CW preemptions.

Give 'em an inch ...

Something sure changed with the WLEX transmitter recently, getting much stronger signal.

Before they had that outage not too long ago, I was getting 93-96 range on my signal strength meter on my DishPalDVR, then after the outage I was 'peaking' at 88, ...that is until I looked today and saw the 98-100 readings.

Now if they would just maintain the main picture's aspect ratio during these ridiculous 'snow warnings' they constantly display at the slightest of fricking signs of flurries. :rolleyes:

When did LEX have an 'outage'? Or are you referring to the ~30 second transmitter drops they had (2?) either earlier this week or late last week?

I haven't heard of anyone (since WTVQ did) increasing power. It would be kind of hard for LEX to do so since they only have one amplifier.

And are you talking about the school closings that every station does (I agree to the extreme, just want to make sure that's what you're referring to)?

When did LEX have an 'outage'? Or are you referring to the ~30 second transmitter drops they had (2?) either earlier this week or late last week?

I haven't heard of anyone (since WTVQ did) increasing power. It would be kind of hard for LEX to do so since they only have one amplifier.
12-13-09, My post from that date has the blurb that WLEX put on their web site. WLEX 12-13-09 outage (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17711640#post17711640)
Their signal level has definitely increased since last week, I have never had LEX peaking at 100 on my strength meter the way it is now.


And are you talking about the school closings that every station does (I agree to the extreme, just want to make sure that's what you're referring to)?Yeah, the main picture is 'squished' by the approx. 15%(WTVQ's looks to be about 20%) that they use to show not 'just' the overly redundant school closings, but also who's fricking yoga class is canceled, that Joe Schmoe's Garage is closed etc.(They even just showed a fricking 'excavating' companie's delay of 'ONE HOUR', ....seriously?)
Not only do these stations screw with the aspect ratio of the picture, but they also rarley take it down during prime time shows and then show it as they should only during commercials while in prime time.
They should 'black bar' the main picture to maintain aspect ratio, the reduced size would be far more watchable than the way they do it now.

Last night WKYT had this fricking ridiculous 'winter weather warning' covering the bottom portion of the screen during Survivor that they could of easily had the same affect if they had shown it only during commercials, absolutely no new information was provided on that banner that couldn't of been seen during the commercials. They could of also just displayed it periodically and had the same affect.

12-13-09, My post from that date has the blurb that WLEX put on their web site. WLEX 12-13-09 outage (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17711640#post17711640)
Their signal level has definitely increased since last week, I have never had LEX peaking at 100 on my strength meter the way it is now.OK. I don't know how they could have increased power without adding equipment, but ok.


Yeah, the main picture is 'squished' by the approx. 15%(WTVQ's looks to be about 20%) that they use to show not 'just' the overly redundant school closings, but also who's fricking yoga class is canceled, that Joe Schmoe's Garage is closed etc.(They even just showed a fricking 'excavating' companie's delay of 'ONE HOUR', ....seriously?)
Not only do these stations screw with the aspect ratio of the picture, but they also rarley take it down during prime time shows and then show it as they should only during commercials while in prime time.
They should 'black bar' the main picture to maintain aspect ratio, the reduced size would be far more watchable than the way they do it now.
On this I agree with you (not necessarily letterboxing the image, but overdoing the closings). It's obvious some companies use the "closings & delays" as free advertising. However, if the stations will accept it...
I did notice they (LEX) had changed the size of their graphics. They apparently changed it too much because yesterday morning part of the graphic was cut off... stupid graphic's people, don't they check things?

Last night WKYT had this fricking ridiculous 'winter weather warning' covering the bottom portion of the screen during Survivor that they could of easily had the same affect if they had shown it only during commercials, absolutely no new information was provided on that banner that couldn't of been seen during the commercials. They could of also just displayed it periodically and had the same affect.Can't exactly argue with you here either.

My only suggestion is to call the stations and complain. SOMETHING got LEX to change their closing graphic... I'm pretty sure it wasn't just someone at the station "seeing the light".

OK. I don't know how they could have increased power without adding equipment, but ok.

If they reran corrections to improve SNR out of the transmitter, that could have helped reception.

- Trip

Wow..... WYMT is now broadcasting non-HD programming in stretch-o-vision today... looks awful. Hope it's just a technical issue.

They should 'black bar' the main picture to maintain aspect ratio, the reduced size would be far more watchable than the way they do it now.
With the worst offenders (such as WTVQ), I change the aspect ratio to 4:3, so the school closings banner acts as letterboxing. It's not perfect but it is less irritating.

I think most modern TVs won't allow you to do this on a true HD source, but I time-shift most programs through my old SD Tivo - which thinks everything is 4:3 anyway.

Personally, I don't notice the 15% squeeze of the picture (ignoring the graphic itself). No, I don't like it and think stations do too much of it, but school closings DO need to be aired. My .02... put them up during the newscasts only.

Anyone know why WKYT didn't broadcast the game last night in HD? They did 4:3 standard def! A friend in Ashland said his local affiliate had shown it in HD over there. Why did WKYT diss Central Kentucky like that?

WAVE 3 didn't have it in HD either... WAVE was having problems with it for the first 10 minutes of the game.

Was the game also anamorphic (16x9 image squeezed into a 4x3 window)? It looked (based on the score bug) like there was LOTS of room left & right.

Was the game also anamorphic (16x9 image squeezed into a 4x3 window)? It looked (based on the score bug) like there was LOTS of room left & right.

The players didn't look any taller and skinnier than usual. :)

Wonder what WKYT will do for the championship games or is that all going to be on ESPN?

I've noticed some people will tell me they are watching HD because the screen is full with no black bars on any sides.. and then I look and they are hooked up by s-video or composite. lol You can't tell them the picture isn't high definition either. Ignorance must be bliss? It drives me nuts that a friend has an HDTV and Dish standard def receiver, but won't hook up rabbit ears to pull in the locals and get the ATSC stream over the air.. they think because they have DirecTV that the box is receiving HD signals even though I told them it wasn't. Gwaaa.. they can easily plug in an antenna, change the source to OTA, do the scan and watch the game or whatever in actual high def (providing that station is really broadcasting HD.. glad I didn't hook up an antenna and try to show him that last game in HD when it wasn't... that'd of made me look real bad). lol

Wonder what WKYT will do for the championship games or is that all going to be on ESPN?

My understanding is WKYT has Thursday & Friday games (as SEC Network affil), but WTVQ has Saturday's and Sunday's (as ABC affil).

My understanding is WKYT has Thursday & Friday games (as SEC Network affil), but WTVQ has Saturday's and Sunday's (as ABC affil).

Yes, as usual, the normal CBS schedule is toast (unless you can get WLKY.)

Also WLKY has added 32-2 for additional games as of today

Also WLKY has added 32-2 for additional games as of today

SOP since they brought the DT online. Multicasting as it was originally meant to be used: part time.

Who can we contact at WTVQ to protest the effect where they start the feed blurred then it clears up? It's not terrible in today's basketball game, but it's a nightmare in college football. And it's the only station I have out of 400 that does it.

Who can we contact at WTVQ to protest the effect where they start the feed blurred then it clears up? It's not terrible in today's basketball game, but it's a nightmare in college football. And it's the only station I have out of 400 that does it.

It is truly horrible, isn't it? So distracting that as a result I try to avoid all programming on WTVQ whenever possible.

I've contacted them before on this, and got a response that they would "look into it." That was 2 years ago. Not to discourage you from doing the same, here are some contact numbers (http://www.wtvq.com/contact-us).

That blur sucks. It is just like when my eyes build up protein deposits and my contacts start drying out in my eyes. It's the same momentary blur effect. I didn't realize it was happening on the broadcast. Thanks for confirming it's not always my eyes. :)

Yep. I saw it too. I was assuming it was something D* was doing but apparently not. You can easily see the difference by switching to another ABC station.

That blur has been going on for years and years probably 20 or more years that I know of it is like it out of focus a smidgen. All of my T.V's over the years. So I know it is not linked to....Oh it is your T.V Scenerio or what ever they want to tell you. I had Zenith Floor Model, Several Sanyos ( which all are still working ) Digital Lifestyles, Poloroid and Emerson heck even a 12" Black and White. They need to do a whole complete equipment overhaul. Or get someone not affiliated with the Station come in and diagnose what their problem really is.

You can easily see the difference by switching to another ABC station.Except for most people it's not easy to switch to another ABC station.:p

Except for most people it's not easy to switch to another ABC station.:p

Living in the fringe does have its advantages.:)

Anybody see WTVQ's great coverage special before the game? Do they really think they'll be able to give away all those "Solid Blue" t-shirts? I watched a few minutes and it was very hard to watch. They said in the newspaper they wanted to show off their news people but the picture was so bad you could hardly watch it. On another note, I heard Ryan Lemond on the radio explain the "blurry picture" on TVQ during the game when they switched between cameras. Now that was funny.

I don't remember the blurry picture going between cameras but coming out of the replay effect to the cameras. Like a dissolve that didn't quite finish.

A few things are in the pipe with broadcast television and the FCC's desire to end free TV as we know it:

Hundt Comes Clean: Internet Trumps TV (http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/03/12/daily.4/?page=1)

Broadcasters may be charged for spectrum to entice them to revert to SDTV (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/450203-Broadband_Plan_Spectrum_Fees_Could_Be_Extra_Band_Clearing_In centive.php)

FCC wants to clear 120 MHz within five years (http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/03/15/daily.7/?page=1)

There goes your free HDTV!

and the cable companies couldn't be happier:

Cable wants money for internet programming (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/business/media/30cable.html)

Not that we need to worry about this, it's simply another government takeover. We all are well aware of how much better things could be if the government ran our lives. (hint, start hording beans and rice)

HDTV4usinky how would you solve the problem of providing more bandwidth so everyone can use their iPhones to access the internet wherever they are?

HDTV4usinky how would you solve the problem of providing more bandwidth so everyone can use their iPhones to access the internet wherever they are?

How about the phone companies use the spectrum they just got on June 12 before crying for more?

- Trip

HDTV4usinky how would you solve the problem of providing more bandwidth so everyone can use their iPhones to access the internet wherever they are?

1. Replace the FCC commissioners with engineers that understand RF (duh)

2. Conduct an inventory of the spectrum

3. Any reduction of TV spectrum must preserve the current 6MHz so that television can broadcast in HD or multichannel or mobile.

4. Inform viewers in outlying areas that currently receive free TV that they will be forced to cable or (more likely) satellite and give them a chance to respond.

5. After a well thought out plan is constructed that minimizes the impact on both broadcasters and rural viewers, compact the spectrum. The best way to do this is to have all stations broadcast from one tower on consecutive channels. I don't have a clue how you would incorporate KET into this plan, they occupy more spectrum in Kentucky than any other broadcaster.

(a) The government needs to reimburse the broadcasters for the cost associated with this rechannel. Expect this to be at least a million bucks per station for retuning the transmitter, replacing the RF system, and replacing the antenna. There will likely be several towers replaced or modified to hold additional antennas due to necessary co-location, along with new lease expenses.

(b) It would be best to maintain a standby tower in each community. Towers fail, transmitters catch fire.... One thing broadcasters currently do very well is provide communications in an emergency.

6. Reduce broadcast power to about 250 kW. This allows for urban reception along with reception at satellite and cable HEs. Force the satellite companies to allow redistribution at distant cable HEs that are no longer able to receive a clean broadcast. There will also be a need to relax the COL rules due to this power reduction.

7. In distant communities, relax rules for broadcast tv repeater systems.

8. The result of compacting spectrum is more "white space" It would be easy to have a smartphone locate itself using its current allotted frequency, and then switch to the new channels that are available in an area.

9. Relax the rules on broadcast TV so that they are more inline with cable and satellite channels. It's silly to "compel" everyone to cable or satellite where nudity and the f bomb are everywhere, while levying fines on broadcast. This "give and take" attitude might make the broadcasters more willing to bend. The current FCC attitude feels much more like "take and take"

Okay I'm not an FCC commissioner, and I haven't thought about this for more than a few minutes, but rushing into a "fix" for anything (broadband, health care, whatever) is a horrible idea. Slow down and think this through!

Another way to relax the rules that would work well for Kentucky, allow WDKY to turn on the channel 4 transmitter with SD versions of the big 4 networks. If WDKY was permitted to move the channel 4 transmitter to a mountain in SE KY, broadcasting 4 sd channels, many unserved communities would have a chance for free TV reception. Channel 4 is useless to the broadband plan anyway. Cranking our a million watts of channel 31 doesn't do much to improve distant coverage, UHF is pretty much line of sight. There are many ideas to consider, that is why this shouldn't be a simple spectrum grab, but a well thought out plan that leaves room for future ideas that are beyond our current imagination.

Good points HDTV. I do have doubts about WDKY on VHF channel 4 though.
I live on the east side of Lex off Richmond Rd. and could not receive WDKY on channel 4 but get it fine now.

I've been working on some ideas about KET (obviously)... The East transmitters are all below 30 so they should be fine.. It should be possible to reduce our spectrum footprint if the FCC would allow us to reuse channels or sync the system as a single frequency network..

Just need $$$$...

If we were COFDM instead of 8-VSB the SFM's would be a piece of cake.

William

Next they'll decide to change the format from MPEG2 to MPEG4 and everyone's HD tuners will be obsolete and there will be a coupon program for a digital-digital changeover. The American public will be even more confused, not to mention pissed their brand new HDTVs bought the last few years won't have a a usable internal HD tuner.

That would actually allow the channel sharing thing easier and give everyone better chances at content sticking in the high def realm (and probably get my CWKYT back in HD resolution).

If a format change like that ever were to ever happen, may I propose it is designed such that by default the weather warning and alert banners\bugs\crawls from affiliates are overlays on the screen independent of the content in the 'background'... that every tuner box gives the user the ability to switch off the overlay during their favorite programming? :)

Ben, what you are suggesting is more like a true datacast. This would allow for portions of the data to be "acknowledged" like a warning, and then the tv would return to your regular programming. The warning could be separate from the broadcast, and the "tv" could overlay the alert on the screen without disrupting the DVR recording. This is why a simple "spectrum grab" is a bad idea. Like the new health care plan, this is not the best possible plan for our country. The "correct" plan (health care included) would be so well thought out that it would be widely embraced as a path to a better future for EVERYONE. Instead, we get a bill that has perks for this group or that group and penalizes other groups based simply on what will get the votes to pass it. I propose that we come up with the best plan possible, the plan that passes muster with the most brilliant minds in our country, a plan that is modeled on a super computer in advance of its implementation, a plan that leaves room for future innovations that we can't even imagine now. COFDM and MP4 may very well be part of that plan. If the broadcasters were asking for MORE spectrum for mobile DTV because the cell phone companies are not using their allotted spectrum efficiently, would the FCC be in a rush to grant that request?

Well I just want my HDTV (un-watered-down) ... and it's becoming abundantly apparent that local broadcasters (with a few exceptions) can't/won't deliver.

We reap what we sow.

Next they'll decide to change the format from MPEG2 to MPEG4 and everyone's HD tuners will be obsolete and there will be a coupon program for a digital-digital changeover. The American public will be even more confused, not to mention pissed their brand new HDTVs bought the last few years won't have a a usable internal HD tuner.

That would actually allow the channel sharing thing easier and give everyone better chances at content sticking in the high def realm (and probably get my CWKYT back in HD resolution).

If a format change like that ever were to ever happen, may I propose it is designed such that by default the weather warning and alert banners\bugs\crawls from affiliates are overlays on the screen independent of the content in the 'background'... that every tuner box gives the user the ability to switch off the overlay during their favorite programming? :)

I gave 4 different members of the ATSC a plan to overlay the alerts in 2000.

All it would have required was an Emergency audio PID (which was in the original standard), that would override the existing audio, a data PID and control of the receivers built in closed caption decoder (which would overlay the text/graphics).. CEA would not hear of it since it would have transferred the liability from the stations and to them.. Hence the reason why the alerts are the way they are...

William

I don't remember the blurry picture going between cameras but coming out of the replay effect to the cameras. Like a dissolve that didn't quite finish.
They are most likely using Flexicoders and have the "adaptive filtering" setting set to on and it needs to be OFF. And they need to double check the setting because the way it's presented can cause confusion.

I gave 4 different members of the ATSC a plan to overlay the alerts in 2000.

All it would have required was an Emergency audio PID (which was in the original standard), that would override the existing audio, a data PID and control of the receivers built in closed caption decoder (which would overlay the text/graphics).. CEA would not hear of it since it would have transferred the liability from the stations and to them.. Hence the reason why the alerts are the way they are...

William

Your idea sounds excellent William, but unfortunately like just about everything.. someone always wants it to be someone else's fault when there is trouble and not be held accountable (such as a missed warning\technical glitch preventing the data stream from delivering emergency information).

Your idea sounds excellent William, but unfortunately like just about everything.. someone always wants it to be someone else's fault when there is trouble and not be held accountable (such as a missed warning\technical glitch preventing the data stream from delivering emergency information).

For less than the price of an un-subsidized digital TV converter box, one can purchase a NOAA "All Hazards" weather radio. It works 24/7 (like when your TV is turned off,) has a battery backup, and two required test alerts every week. (The new ones are smart enough not to sound the audible alarms for the test.)

... And BTW, it's controlled by folks that have no issues with being "accountable," in fact, most of them live for it.

And there's your Severe Weather Season PSA. ;)

Those radios will give the basic text information but I don't know how well they will interface with the CAP(Common Alerting Protocol) standard...NOAA is well known for doing their own thing...

William

Those radios will give the basic text information but I don't know how well they will interface with the CAP(Common Alerting Protocol) standard...NOAA is well known for doing their own thing...

Don't no nothin' about "CAP." I do know that all these (weather) alerts originate from the same point (or send button, which is almost certainly going to be pushed by a NOAA employee.) TV gets them several seconds after the radio's go off ... if you happen to be conscious and have the TV turned on ... and everything in between "the button" and the TV is working. ;)

OTOH, The beauty of the radios is that once they've roused you from your deep, deep sleep, the voice on the radio tells you exactly what's going on.

Any word on the WKYT making the switch?

Any word on the WKYT making the switch?

Last news I heard was sometime after May 1 ... on one of their newscasts a while back.

If it's going to be after May 1, I'd figure at least June. I can't imagine a station making a major change like that during a ratings period.

Has anyone notice Insight in Lexington added a lot of new Free content to basic cable subscribers, in addition to ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX and PBS they've added a lot of station (as well as remapped them) This all happened 3 days ago or so.

Weather channel HD
WGN HD
WTBS HD
CW HD
Discovery HD

and maybe more?

Does anybody have a mapping of free HD QAM stations and location? Doing a scan and going through the various channels is quite tedious since there a lot of junk on there as well.

Has anyone notice Insight in Lexington added a lot of new Free content to basic cable subscribers, in addition to ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX and PBS they've added a lot of station (as well as remapped them) This all happened 3 days ago or so.

CW HD


... that's not available over the air in HD to serve public airwaves. I'm writing to CW corporate to complain (not that it will do anything). It's not a premium cable channel and is being treated almost like one. I am outside Insight's service area (TWC). Serving this higher quality signal to the paying public (and only in Lexington) doesn't seem fair. Now if it were offered to other cable operators, satellite, etc it might be a little different, but then again CW in HD is available free over the air in other reaches of the country... why do we have to be different in Central Kentucky? WKYT should never have been granted broadcast rights to the channel and let some independent company broadcast it instead (or let WBKI beef up their transmitter to serve more of Kentucky).

Is there an ATSC-2 standard coming out that uses mpeg-4 compression? I think the public networks should begin moving to this format and manufacturers start integrating the technology to tune it into their products. Then it wouldn't be any problem to broadcast CBS-HD and CW-HD from the same transmitter\freq as there would be enough bandwidth to provide a great picture for both. Imagine if KET used something like that.. they could multicast all their programming for all channels in HD.

Anyhow I had a feeling this exclusivity thing with CWKYT-HD and Insight would happen, At least there's always the Internet for sourcing a better signal, but it just feels wrong especially not being able to get it the right way like everyone else being served CW-HD over public airwaves.

Has anyone notice Insight in Lexington added a lot of new Free content to basic cable subscribers, in addition to ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX and PBS they've added a lot of station (as well as remapped them) This all happened 3 days ago or so.

Weather channel HD
WGN HD
WTBS HD
CW HD
Discovery HD

and maybe more?

Does anybody have a mapping of free HD QAM stations and location? Doing a scan and going through the various channels is quite tedious since there a lot of junk on there as well.
Try this:
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:40502#lineup_2104913

Except for the CW in Hd all of those listed have been there since June of 09. Here is what I have 19.3 wgn hd,46.12 ESPN U,72.1 wkyt HD,72.4 KET 2,72.5 KET KY,72.13 KET HD, 73.1 TBS HD, 73.2 Weather channel HD, 81.1 ABC 36 HD,81.2 FOX 56 HD, 81.4 WTVQ hd, 116.1 WLEX HD,116.2 Wazzo sports, also as a bonus not in hd but UKs channel 50 which shows first run movies uncut on 46.11. All of these were current as of Sunday subject to change as Insight likes to move these around a lot. Also of note all of the Analog channels are also there in digital form in anticipation of insight doing away with analog and requiring a box or Qam tuner tv. This is being discussed on other forums and it looks like Insight will be switching over in Lexington this summer. hope that helps.

kskyboy, do you know the names of the forums where Insight's plans are being discussed?
Thanks.

it just so happens that in todays Lexington Herald leader theres a big write up about the changes. Just go to kentucky.com its on the main page and reading the comments people are real upset that insight will be requiring a cable box to all tvs starting this summer. the first two are free after that you have to pay.

Thanks for the info. I saw the article in today's paper.

it just so happens that in todays Lexington Herald leader theres a big write up about the changes. Just go to kentucky.com its on the main page and reading the comments people are real upset that insight will be requiring a cable box to all tvs starting this summer. the first two are free after that you have to pay.

Thanks for all of the info.

Here's what I found regarding the digital station (see attachment) from my TV card. Note the PBS station doesn't work hence, i may have the wrong frequency listed?

Quesion

I have Directv and for the past couple of weeks WKYT HD on Directv has been "skipping" every few minutes. Perhaps 5 or 6 times per hour. Not pixleating at all, it just sort of goes black for a sec, sound goes off, then comes back on. This happens during live and DVR'd recordings but only on WKYT HD, no other channel.

I'm seeing that too. I'm going to call and let them know, I suggest you do the same.

Except for the CW in Hd all of those listed ...Is the Insight QAM feed of CW HD the full HD feed, or is it the same 4x3 cropped from the middle HD feed that you get over the air?

Over the past several days, I've noticed that WKYT seems to be having numerous sound skips. I've tried both 27-1 and 27 via Directv and both have these. Anyone else noticing these?

Quesion

I have Directv and for the past couple of weeks WKYT HD on Directv has been "skipping" every few minutes. Perhaps 5 or 6 times per hour. Not pixleating at all, it just sort of goes black for a sec, sound goes off, then comes back on. This happens during live and DVR'd recordings but only on WKYT HD, no other channel.

Yes ... I suspect the "glitch" that's been plaguing my TiVo since WKYT tried the dual CBS/CW HD feeds has finally tripped up DirecTV's POP receiver.

It's "interesting" that this started about the same time that WKYT started providing CW in HD to Insight.

I received an e-mail from Fox Network on 5-20 that stated that DirecTV updated their "WonderBox" units in Lexington, and we should monitor sound to see if there is any improvement. I'm guessing that the WonderBox is an IRD at the locals collection facility (located at WLEX) Anyway this might have something to do with the WKYT audio issue, or not.

Anyone heard of just what exactly went down at WLEX?

Anyone heard of just what exactly went down at WLEX?

No ... but I was getting 0 on the OTA SQ meter. Had to be something with the transmitter or the feed to it. I don't remember if they have a direct fiber feed to D* for the ATSC side.

Anyway, it looks like D* has sorted out the issue with the WKYT glitches.

Anyone heard of just what exactly went down at WLEX?

Power issue feeding the transmitter. It was after the genny cutover so that didn't/wouldn't help.

WLEX has a baseband analog video/stereo audio feed going to DirecTV. There is also a fiber line feeding Insight cable. That feed is HD.

Dish/Direct HD/all other cable companies rely on OTA reception.

WTVQ pulled down the old Channel 36 antenna today. It had been in place since 1983.

Did the truck take it straight to WKYT?

That would be interesting to see

it would work fine.. but I would replace all the slot covers ( and the beacon assembly) while its on the ground..

but seriously, I don't know if the folks at WKYT even have thought about using that antenna if they had It would have made more sense (and cents) to simply have installed the new transmitter system at the WTVQ site and microwaved a link across the road.
They would have had to pay rent but that would have put all three of the stations on the same tower..

William

WKYT-36 will have to have a null toward WLWT-35, and I would suspect the WTVQ analog antenna was an omni.

- Trip

They would have had to pay rent but that would have put all three of the stations on the same tower..

TVQ has to make money somehow.:D

http://download.broadband.gov/plan/fcc-omnibus-broadband-initiative-%28obi%29-technical-paper-spectrum-analysis-options-for-broadband-spectrum.pdf

That link doesn't work for me.

I found the right combination of equipment to pull in WBKI in Winchester from inside my attic (no worry about roof line aesthetics and the wife approval factor now).

The only change was swapping in a used Channel Plus DA-550HHR 8 way distribution amp. It has zero insertion loss. I was previously using a Channel Master 4 way distribution amp, but a couple of the runs were split once or twice.

My antenna is a Winegard PR-8800 8-Bay and as you can see from this graph, it performed the best at tuning channel 19 RF which happens to be the frequency that WBKI is using - http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

I use a Channel Master 7777 preamp and cabling is RG-6.

I'm adding some additional runs of RG6 to other tuners and tvs in the house now that I don't have to use splitters down the line that were probably impeding the signal for lock on.

I still don't think it is right that WKYT won't step it up to give over the air viewers CW HD while they give Insight exclusive access to HD, but whatever. At least I have a legal work around now for my CW HD fix.

I still don't think it is right that WKYT won't step it up to give over the air viewers CW HD while they give Insight exclusive access to HD, but whatever. At least I have a legal work around now for my CW HD fix.

Have you seen any actual HD programming from WBKI? The last time I checked (a few weeks ago) they were still cranking out upconverted SD. (Yes, I'm too lazy to turn the dial on the rotor since everything is in summer repeats. ;) )

Have you seen any actual HD programming from WBKI? The last time I checked (a few weeks ago) they were still cranking out upconverted SD. (Yes, I'm too lazy to turn the dial on the rotor since everything is in summer repeats. ;) )

Actually I was just coming here to ask what gives!? Turned on Vampire Diaries tonight expecting HD and saw the same thing CWKYT is pushing. I go through the trouble of doing all this stuff and come to find out there's no HD! Oye! Maybe there's some discussion in the Louisville thread

I found the right combination of equipment to pull in WBKI in Winchester from inside my attic (no worry about roof line aesthetics and the wife approval factor now).

The only change was swapping in a used Channel Plus DA-550HHR 8 way distribution amp. It has zero insertion loss. I was previously using a Channel Master 4 way distribution amp, but a couple of the runs were split once or twice.

My antenna is a Winegard PR-8800 8-Bay and as you can see from this graph, it performed the best at tuning channel 19 RF which happens to be the frequency that WBKI is using - http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

I use a Channel Master 7777 preamp and cabling is RG-6.



BenCJedi, Do you have the antena end of your CM7777 pre-amp located in your attic? I had mine there but when it got hot this spring it stopped working. I called Solid Signal, it's source, and they told me that it would be too hot in an attic to work properly and that I would have to move it to a cooler location. I moved it to a point inside where it would be cooler and it worked there but the signal was a good deal weaker, due apparently to the length of RG6 cable between the antenna and the pre-amp being longer. Have you run into this and found a better solution?

The CM7777 is in fact in my attic, about 10" of RG6 from the antenna to that pre-amp. I've had it like that for a couple years now. The WBKI thing is only recent because of that distribution amp and adding fresh RG6 runs. In practice these last couple weeks I learned It's not perfect and works much better when the sun is down. It's not 100% possible to get WBKI way out here with the antenna in the attic, but anything I want to watch from them is primetime. Unfortunately I have yet to see any HD out of them though. Maybe it will be more useful in the fall when the sun sets earlier in the evening coinciding with new TV episodes and hopefully WBKI will get their HD working again by then.

Also hopefully the heat doesn't become an issue for my CM7777. Maybe that's why I don't get WBKI when the sun is up (it over heats).

Also hopefully the heat doesn't become an issue for my CM7777. Maybe that's why I don't get WBKI when the sun is up (it over heats).

It's more likely that you're getting some summertime evening enhancement ... just enough to put you on the right side of the cliff.

The CM7777 is in fact in my attic, about 10" of RG6 from the antenna to that pre-amp. I've had it like that for a couple years now. The WBKI thing is only recent because of that distribution amp and adding fresh RG6 runs. In practice these last couple weeks I learned It's not perfect and works much better when the sun is down. It's not 100% possible to get WBKI way out here with the antenna in the attic, but anything I want to watch from them is primetime. Unfortunately I have yet to see any HD out of them though. Maybe it will be more useful in the fall when the sun sets earlier in the evening coinciding with new TV episodes and hopefully WBKI will get their HD working again by then.

Also hopefully the heat doesn't become an issue for my CM7777. Maybe that's why I don't get WBKI when the sun is up (it over heats).

I've actually had my CM7777 for about four years. The first couple, it worked great all year, last year it would stop working completely for a few minutes on really hot afternoons. This year, as soon as it got hot it would stop completely every day until the weather cooled in late evenings. That's when I called and moved it. Hope you'll have better luck than I have. I do plan to move it back to the attic again, once cooler weather returns this fall.

Has the WKYT-DT 36 antenna been put on top of the 27 tower?

Also has anyone been having problems getting LEX18 at night?

Has the WKYT-DT 36 antenna been put on top of the 27 tower?

Also has anyone been having problems getting LEX18 at night?

I only watch LEX18 in the early evening, but have been getting the random glitchy breakups on my DVR. Not sure if it is them or me.

I see that Insight has finally posted information on their website regarding the discontinuance of analog signals over cable in Lexington. I find it disappointing that ALL televisions, even those with clear QAM tuners, will require a mini box. I have read their excuse for not providing the channels now available without a converter in analog format as clear QAM. They say some programming providers require them to scramble their signals. I don't buy the argument. Why were they able to provide them unscrambled in analog form?
One effect of Insight's setup is to force people with tvs with digital tuners to rent a cable box in order to receive digital quality pictures since the minibox only has an RF output on channel 3 or 4. Nice move Insight...

See http://myinsight.com/Product-Cable-Digital610.asp

Ben,
What type or brand of DVR do you have?

I see that Insight has finally posted information on their website regarding the discontinuance of analog signals over cable in Lexington. I find it disappointing that ALL televisions, even those with clear QAM tuners, will require a mini box.

... but the question is what are/were they providing in "clear" QAM that you would not be able to get via OTA? I would suspect that the list would be quite short to non-existent (not counting music channels.)

I see that Insight has finally posted information on their website regarding the discontinuance of analog signals over cable in Lexington. I find it disappointing that ALL televisions, even those with clear QAM tuners, will require a mini box. I have read their excuse for not providing the channels now available without a converter in analog format as clear QAM. They say some programming providers require them to scramble their signals. I don't buy the argument. Why were they able to provide them unscrambled in analog form?
One effect of Insight's setup is to force people with tvs with digital tuners to rent a cable box in order to receive digital quality pictures since the minibox only has an RF output on channel 3 or 4. Nice move Insight...

See http://myinsight.com/Product-Cable-Digital610.asp

Actually, Insight will be leaving the current set of clear channels intact, according to my reading of the FAQ here:
http://www.610upgrade.com/faqs.html
It looks like the basic channels will still be available to a TV with a QAM tuner: the OTA networks, Discovery HD, WGN HD, TBS HD ?, and Weather HD.

That said, the minibox is next to useless for anything other than an old SD tv. Putting it on the RF input of a TV may interfere with the reception of the clear QAM channels.

It seems to me that Insight could provide the channels now included in analog classic service via clear QAM so that subscribers with newer TVs with digital tuners would not need the mini converter. Only older SD televisions without a digital tuner would need one.

Since the mini converters have to be activated by Insight, I take it that they can also be deactivated when an account is canceled. Perhaps the added security from piracy justified the additional cost to Insight of providing the mini converters to people whose televisions have digital tuners.

Ben,
What type or brand of DVR do you have?

A home-made Microsoft Windows 7 Media Center pc DVR is what I use for digital over the air TV channels. I also have a Dish Network DVR, but still in the standard def level for that (no locals on my dish package since I get them over the air free). The Media Center PC has two tuners.. a Hauppauge WinDVR 1600 card and the other is a Hauppauge USB tuner 950Q I believe.

Interesting setup Ben. I have a Dish DTV DVR that records over the air only. I don't pay for any TV. I have issues with LEX too. I hear they'll be sweeping the transmitter at the end of the month and that should take care of my problem. Hope that helps you too.

Interesting setup Ben. I have a Dish DTV DVR that records over the air only. I don't pay for any TV. I have issues with LEX too. I hear they'll be sweeping the transmitter at the end of the month and that should take care of my problem. Hope that helps you too.
Does that take a special broom?:D

Very Special. It's probably very dirty. Too many hot babes on that channel.

I just saw a piece on the WKYT noon news today, 8/18, that they are preparing to replace their antenna and move to the UHF band in the next few days. Folks picking up their signal over the air will need to rescan when this occurs.

I just saw a piece on the WKYT noon news today, 8/18, that they are preparing to replace their antenna and move to the UHF band in the next few days. Folks picking up their signal over the air will need to rescan when this occurs.

Nice, I was told that the DT 36 antenna would arrive today and would be up very soon.

Now that WTVQ old 36 analog is gone the DT 40 looks a little weird... Has like a hook shape to it.

Now that WTVQ old 36 analog is gone the DT 40 looks a little weird... Has like a hook shape to it.:confused: What are you looking at? The tower? A spectrum anaylzer?

:confused: What are you looking at? The tower? A spectrum anaylzer?

Left that one out... Actually the tower itself.

Nice, I was told that the DT 36 antenna would arrive today and would be up very soon.

Humm ... so ... on a lark yesterday afternoon, I checked my OTA signal meters for the first in quite awhile. I was surprised to find a pretty strong signal on Ch36(RF.) The bad news, it was a skip-in from OH. This move should be "interesting," not to mention the virtual vs physical channel # conflict with WTVQ.

Here is some pictures of WKYT-DT 36 new antenna... This is off their facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5391226&fbid=421084810765&id=33684860765#!/photo.php?pid=5391227&fbid=421084835765&id=33684860765

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5391226&fbid=421084810765&id=33684860765#!/photo.php?pid=5391227&fbid=421084835765&id=33684860765

They just keep calling it their UHF antenna. Guess calling it our channel 36 antenna would just throw a lot of people off ;)

Humm ... so ... on a lark yesterday afternoon, I checked my OTA signal meters for the first in quite awhile. I was surprised to find a pretty strong signal on Ch36(RF.) The bad news, it was a skip-in from OH. This move should be "interesting," not to mention the virtual vs physical channel # conflict with WTVQ.

Was it WTTE in Columbus? We don't have our low-powered channel 36 (W36DG - Daystar) in Cincinnati yet.

Was it WTTE in Columbus? We don't have our low-powered channel 36 (W36DG - Daystar) in Cincinnati yet.

I didn't watch long enough to get a call sign, but that's a likely suspect given past DX activity. The virtual channel # came up as 28-1, once I got my receiver to tune to it (instead of WTVQ.)

PS: Have I mentioned before, just how much I hate "virtual" channel mapping? (that's rhetorical BTW.)

PS: Have I mentioned before, just how much I hate "virtual" channel mapping? (that's rhetorical BTW.)

It's a pain sometimes, but that's what makes hunting down digital channels you get on DX fun!

Just picked up a new TV and scanned the QAM channels on Insight... here's what I surfaced... not sure how much longer these will be around once the "upgrade" completes...

72-1 WKYT-HD
72-4 KET2-DT
72-5 KET3-DT
72-13 KET-DT
73-1 TBS-HD
73-2 WEATHER-HD
74-3 QVC
80-1 KET2
80-5 WDKY
80-6 ION-HD
80-7 WKYT
80-8 DISC
80-9 WGN-HD
80-11 EDU
80-12 CN2
81-2 GOV
81-3 WTVQ
81-4 WKYTCW
81-5 STBG
81-10 TBSHD
81-11 WLEX
112-1 WTVQ-HD
112-2 WDKY-HD
112-3 WTVQ3-DT
112-4 WTVQ2-DT
115-2 DISC-HD
116-1 WLEX-HD
116-2 WAZOO (WLEX2-DT)
116-3 WKYTCW-HD

Ben,

Your set up work any better on LEX now? Mine is clean.

It looks like WKYT is going to make the switch to UHF in the next couple of days.

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/08/26/1408196/wkyt-to-upgrade-its-over-the-air.html

Ah... You beat me to posting it. LoL

I wonder if they will leave the DT 13 stick on the tower for future useage like the CW ;)

I just performed a re-scan... and WKYT is coming in crystal clear on my UHF only antenna... which was subject to break-up previously...

My current DTV tuner doesn't show me the underlying VHF/UHF channel, it only shows me the PSIP re-mapped virtual channel...

Can anyone confirm that WKYT is up on UHF-36 at the moment?

4:45pm on THR August 26

Nope. Still on the VHF channel.

Got it on UHF 36 here(and still on VHF too at the moment).

No difference in signal strength on my Dish DTVPal.
My readings before were 90-93, and now on UHF, they are also 91-93, so basically no dif.

I'm getting a weak signal on DT36 but no lock. Hopefully, they aren't yet at full power.

Actually, I just checked and I'm now bouncing between 96-98 on my DTVPal signal meter(was around 91-93 this a.m.).

Just rescanned my 2004 Sony HD TV and I get WTVQ on 36.1, 36.2 and 36.3 with WKYT CW on 36.4 and WKYT radar on 36.5 when I channel up but when I channel down WKYT CBS comes in on 36.3. On my DTV Pal DVR I get WKYT's 3 channels on 27.1, 27.2 and 27.3 along with 70.1, 70.2 and 70.3. It should all be fixed on Sept. 1 when they shut the channel 13 off and remap the channel 36.

WKYT DT36 now coming in here with stable lock. Only time will tell how stable/usable it is and how it compares with DT13. Certainly, my antenna array for DT36 is much more manageable than what it took to bring in DT13.

1080i->720p blurr-o-vision is still irritating.

My TV didn't like the new 36 channel... Or I should say the two sets of 27's but I had to delete channel 13. TV happy :)

Well, no lock on DT36 again at 12:35 pm. Either they are at low power or it may not be a usable signal down here.

It would have been nice (for me:)) if they could have put the transmitter at Clay's Ferry or even on the same tower as TVQ's analog.

Well, no lock on DT36 again at 12:35 pm. Either they are at low power or it may not be a usable signal down here.

It would have been nice (for me:)) if they could have put the transmitter at Clay's Ferry or even on the same tower as TVQ's analog.

cpcat, can you receive any of the other Lexington DT stations from your location in Corbin? That's quite a distance away from Lexington...

I just rescanned my digital tuner... and it picked up both the VHF-13 and UHF-36 DT signals from WKYT. The VHF-13 is breaking up, blocky and artifacting... the UHF-36 looks perfect. So you might want to double-check your tuner to see which signal if any it's locking onto.

cpcat, can you receive any of the other Lexington DT stations from your location in Corbin? That's quite a distance away from Lexington...

I just rescanned my digital tuner... and it picked up both the VHF-13 and UHF-36 DT signals from WKYT. The VHF-13 is breaking up, blocky and artifacting... the UHF-36 looks perfect. So you might want to double-check your tuner to see which signal if any it's locking onto.

DT31 (WDKY) is stable and for the most part drop-free no matter the time of day. DT39(WLEX) and DT40(WTVQ) are intermittent and mostly watchable only after dark or in the early morning. However, my UHF antenna array is optimized for UHF 14-38 and gain drops like a rock above ch 38. So, I was hoping that DT36 would do OK even in the daytime.

Don't worry, there's no way I'm confusing DT36 with DT13. I do currently have a VHF high band antenna but it's fixed and pointed at Hazard. Some time ago, I also had a high band array that would intermittently bring in DT13 but I downsized because it's just not practical to leave up all the time.

Here's a pic of the uhf/vhf array.

My TV didn't like the new 36 channel... Or I should say the two sets of 27's but I had to delete channel 13. TV happy :)

Windows 7 Media Center allowed me to manually add the new RF36 and label them 27.1 and 27.2, however there's no guide information. I'll fool around with that when WKYT turns off VHF13 I guess. With Microsoft it might mean rebuilding the pc with a nuke and pave. Uggh! I've rebuilt this machine at least a half dozen times due to the channel changes over the last year. The last channel change I want to see for this area is CW going to high def over the air. Then we can call it all done. :)

Windows 7 Media Center allowed me to manually add the new RF36 and label them 27.1 and 27.2, however there's no guide information. I'll fool around with that when WKYT turns off VHF13 I guess. With Microsoft it might mean rebuilding the pc with a nuke and pave. Uggh! I've rebuilt this machine at least a half dozen times due to the channel changes over the last year. The last channel change I want to see for this area is CW going to high def over the air. Then we can call it all done. :)


If there is any other changes that will be made, I am hoping that maybe they will fire up channel 13 again and just use it for the CW.

If there is any other changes that will be made, I am hoping that maybe they will fire up channel 13 again and just use it for the CW.

As has been said here over and over, the FCC is not granting new licenses at this time. Unless they drop the power by 20 dB and call it a fill-in translator, there is simply no way to put channel 13 on the air.

- Trip

As has been said here over and over, the FCC is not granting new licenses at this time. Unless they drop the power by 20 dB and call it a fill-in translator, there is simply no way to put channel 13 on the air.

- Trip

I know, but it's wishful thinking. Even if they did that the signal would be horrible. Just glad to see 36 is working out a lot better now.

Well, no lock on DT36 again at 12:35 pm. Either they are at low power or it may not be a usable signal down here.

It would have been nice (for me:)) if they could have put the transmitter at Clay's Ferry or even on the same tower as TVQ's analog.

Clays Ferry might help (some people), but I don't see how moving to TVQs tower would help. I thought TVQ & KYT's tower were the same heights. Since they're probably ~1/2 mile (if that) away from each other, I don't see that move as helping.

http://www.wkyt.com/home/misc/101409914.html

Clays Ferry might help (some people), but I don't see how moving to TVQs tower would help. I thought TVQ & KYT's tower were the same heights. Since they're probably ~1/2 mile (if that) away from each other, I don't see that move as helping.

TVQ36 was always my best analog signal from Lex. Much better than either KYT/LEX.

I'll be interested to see how the dT36 signal is this afternoon/evening.

Last night it was pretty stable for me.

Should be interesting to see if Tribune/D* picks up the change this afternoon. They were still pointing to Ch13 last night ... and overriding any manual scans on my "ancient" E86.

Anyone have Snapstream BeyondTV? I don't know how to rescan using that.

Should be interesting to see if Tribune/D* picks up the change this afternoon. They were still pointing to Ch13 last night ... and overriding any manual scans on my "ancient" E86.

Tribune is what Microsoft Windows Media Center uses, so I hope they get it corrected there as it will probably fix the lack of guide info for WKYT using RF36 now. It will suck if there's no guide. Manual timers for everything. Uggh!
I dunno why Microsoft just didn't design their product to use the PSIP guide info over the air and instead rely on a third party vendor to provide the guide. I guess they figure most people using Media Center are analog cable customers and not ATSC users. I think I can map the 27 guide info to the 36 channels at least until Tribune stops carrying it on 27.

Tribune is what Microsoft Windows Media Center uses, so I hope they get it corrected there as it will probably fix the lack of guide info for WKYT using RF36 now.

Well, I guess it was too much to ask for, even though WDKY managed to navigate/coordinate their move from ch4 to ch31 flawlessly. ... But nooooo ... now it looks like nothing but "Regular Programming" for me for all the Lex DMA stations until WKYT notifies all the right parties.

On the bright side, at least the D* LiL service was only down for a few hours. Seriously, after 8 years you'd think the engineers would be able to handle this kind of thing without any glitches ... especially since they had at least a week of overlap with both transmitters running.

I give them a grade of D--.

Looks like manual timers for me.. just in time for the fall TV season! Ugg.. I hope they get it fixed by then.

And the video WKYT posted on Youtube\Facebook.. the guy there doesn't sound prepared for his instruction either. It's not a simple act to rescan like he shows in the video for all devices. Of course Microsoft likes to be unnecessarily complicated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQmLNsq0Q90&feature=player_embedded