I live in the Tates Creek / Man O War area. How close is that to you?

I am planning on buying the new LG 4200A tuner that has the 5th gen chip in it when it comes out. I also have already ordered the Motorola signal booster and silver sensor antenna. Will this be enough?

I checked with Insight today and here is the deal. My cable+internet is $84 a month which includes my student discount. If I cancelled my cable tv my internet would jump to $45 a month.

Couple that with a $61 satellite bill per month and you are looking at an increase to $106 for sat and cable internet as opposed to $84 for Insight cable tv + internet.

Insight's offering of HD is pretty pathetic but I can't justify spending the extra money for Sat to not receive a whole lot more.

Anyone else follow me?

I'm paying Dish Network $45/month for America's top 140, 3 distant network channels (2 FOX and one NBC) and the WB/UPN Supertstaions package (no satellite tax (yet?!)). I get my locals off the air -DT style. Of course that is going to cost me more now that my wife had me add 8 channels of Starz. We just have cable Internet for $45, but for the longest time it has cost me $90/month. For alot of the channels we enjoy watching on Dish, it would cost a whole lot more with Insight because of their weird channel package groupings.

I'm pretty close to Man O war and Clays Mill. I'll check the signal percentages again when I get home, but my UHF antenna is pretty low-end and I can pick up those 3 without problems.

WDKY cannot go to 1 Mw EARP DTV power as their DTV allotment is on VHF.

I don't think they will be moving back to 56 either.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I'll check the signal percentages again when I get home, but my UHF antenna is pretty low-end and I can pick up those 3 without problems.

FWIW, I was messing around with my unaided RatShack double-bow-tie last week and was able to pull in WTVQ-DT (58%) and WKLE-DT (100%) (inside ground floor) from ~30mi out.

Originally posted by William Smith
WDKY cannot go to 1 Mw EARP DTV power as their DTV allotment is on VHF.

I don't think they will be moving back to 56 either.

Methinks you are correct ;)

Have you guys seen any activity around the new WDKY tower site? It seems like the new tower should be visible from the WKLE tower site.

I am planning on buying the new LG 4200A tuner that has the 5th gen chip in it when it comes out

Are you sure this is correct?
I think the first consumer use of the chip will actually be in USDTV's OEM'd STB's. I haven't heard of a consumer model yet available from LG or Zenith.

No, I'm not sure. I don't even know what a 5th gen chip is. Someone in another thread said that they thought it had one.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Methinks you are correct ;)

Have you guys seen any activity around the new WDKY tower site? It seems like the new tower should be visible from the WKLE tower site.

Yes and Yes

Originally posted by William Smith
Yes and Yes

I'm stunned ... room spinning ... vision dimming :D

No, I'm not sure. I don't even know what a 5th gen chip is. Someone in another thread said that they thought it had one.

The current crop of tuners contain the 4th generation chip to decode ATSC signals. One of the problems with ATSC has been difficulty with reliable reception in urban environments due to multipath (signals bouncing off of buildings, water towers,etc and arriving at slightly different times to the tuner). I've heard people only a few miles or less from the transmitter say they couldn't get reliable reception. The 5th gen. chip is supposed to drastically improve this situation and be much more forgiving of multipath. Whether it will improve long distance reception I don't know but I saw a review of it by a beta tester who said it worked great in an urban environment so presumably it does much better with multipath.

The chip has been developed by LG/Zenith and supposedly it's due out this fall in new tuners and will also be in their new integrated TVs. It will also be used in a STB made for USDTV by LG. I don't think the 4200a has it yet unfortunately. I believe it's just a slightly updated 3100a. The 3100a/3510a by LG both have the 4th gen. chip and are widely regarded as two of the best tuners available currently, though, so you'd be getting a good tuner anyway.

Someone from another thread called LG and the rep said that they do have the 5th generation chip. Here's the thread link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=426761

I called LG as well today. The rep informed me (after talking with the engineer) that this will indeed have the new 5th gen chip.

Hope this is true. This is gonna be great!

Assassin,
Please report back on the performance of this new product. I'll be particularly interested in how it does in long distance reception. I have a 3510a and am in the fringe.

Originally posted by cpcat
I'll be particularly interested in how it does in long distance reception. I have a 3510a and am in the fringe.

Me too ... I have doubts as one of the time honored means of combating "local multipath" is to reduce the sensitivity of the receiver (aka the infamous "Local/DX" switch on many FM radio tuners.)

Interesting.. WKYT switched from 1920X1080i to

Video: 1280*720p, 59.94fps, 16:9, 80000000bps, vbv 488
Audio: AC-3, CM, 2/0(2.0), notDS, 48000Hz, 384kbps

They did this once before and then switched back to the 1080i. Any idea what they are doing?

Originally posted by BenCJedi
They did this once before and then switched back to the 1080i. Any idea what they are doing?

Experimenting? I noticed the 13.2 subchannel has been severely choked for the past week or so - almost like they swapped the BW allocation with the radar sub. They could also be having encoder problems again, I've been seeing glitches and dropouts more frequently of late even with a steady signal strength.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Experimenting? I noticed the 13.2 subchannel has been severely choked for the past week or so - almost like they swapped the BW allocation with the radar sub. They could also be having encoder problems again, I've been seeing glitches and dropouts more frequently of late even with a steady signal strength.

Yeah.. I noticed that too. I have been getting alot of transmission errors. I thought the atmosphere shifted and I needed to re-adjust my attic antenna. The adjustment helped a little bit, but I hadn't checked the signal params until my recording of Big Brother tonight when I noticed they had switched them to less resolution, progressive and double the framerate. The source actually transcodes much faster to divx now, so if they keep it this way, it shaves a couple hours off my encoding time (some shows I transcode to divx avi to burn on CD or DVD and others I just packet strip for the higher quality subchannel and burn to a DVDR disc).

Well ... FCC has recieved/posted the latest modification to the WLEX-DT CP. Changes include a drop in power from 1000kW to 475kW *and* the directional antenna appears to be tuned to "protect" areas to the north (aka the Richmond/Cincy TBN station.)

Let's hope this is the one that finally flies.

HDC

PS: Yes, it's still going to be Ch39.

Is anyone else having problems with the WKYT signal today? I kept losing the station during the Buick Open and when I did get it, it was not in HD... Thanks,

Chuck

Originally posted by chuckgr
Is anyone else having problems with the WKYT signal today? I kept losing the station during the Buick Open and when I did get it, it was not in HD... Thanks,

Chuck

Yeah they've been up and down two or three times this aftn ... and the PSIP info is still hosed too. CBS is *not* doing PGA in HD this weekend due to "circumstances beyond [their] control."

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Yeah they've been up and down two or three times this aftn ... and the PSIP info is still hosed too. CBS is *not* doing PGA in HD this weekend due to "circumstances beyond [their] control."

OK, The storm came through with lots of lightning and zapped our power and I wanted to be sure it was not on my end (although all other channels were ok and all was disconnected after the first clap of lightning)..

I guess I missed the announcement about not showing the PGA in HD this weekend..

The PSIP info doesn't bother me too much (I find it interesting that TitianTv now lists them at 13, 27 is not listed for them anymore..)

Thanks for the info..

Chuck

Originally posted by chuckgr
OK, The storm came through with lots of lightning and zapped our power and I wanted to be sure it was not on my end (although all other channels were ok and all was disconnected after the first clap of lightning)..

Yeah, It wouldn't surprise me if they were running on backup generators for a while. In the past, they've been known to shutdown the DT to save power/fuel in such cases.

WKYT-DT: still 1280x720p 59.94fps. Maybe they are sticking to this format?
I didn't watch the PGA stuff, but so far ok with tonight's reshow of The Amazing Race and the new Big Brother.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
WKYT-DT: still 1280x720p 59.94fps. Maybe they are sticking to this format?

Time will tell ... *but* if they are serious about doing something useful with 13.2 (like JP Sports) and do CBS-HD at the same time, they pretty much have little choice. Nobody's going to be happy with UK basketball on 13.2 at the bit rates they have been using in the past. Thankfully, I can usually get WLKY-DT during primetime ... choice is good :)

Anybody know why today the PGA golf which was supposed to be in HD, wasnt? ALso did WKYT had an outage on their HD transmitter? because for a period of about an hour I couldnt get a digital signal from them, only the analog. (Im trying to figure out if its the new tuner I installed today or its them).

Report:

Well I tried the new 4200A today and let me tell you, I am disappointed. I am in the Tates Creek/Man O War area and I could not pull in any signals. I tried it both with and without an amplifier.

I have the silver sensor antenna and the motorolla amplifier. Needless to say, the tuner is going back.

Is there anything I might have done wrong? Please help me if there is. Thanks.

assassin,

Before you return the tuner, you might want to try something.

Take the same antenna setup and try to tune in the analog stations using your existing NTSC set. (Remember to switch the tuner to air mode instead of cable)

If you get a ghost free image on a station, you should be able to get the DTV.

If you want the tuner checked PM me and I'll be more than happy to test the decoder at work.

DTV is designed to work with outdoor antennas indoor reception is iffy at best.

Assassin,
Assuming the 4200a has the same chip as the 3100a/3510a which I'm fairly sure it does (4th gen) and it's implemented in a similar way you've got one of the best tuners currently available. You're going to have to either go outside or at least up in your attic. Outside would be preferable.
Set something temporary up maybe out on your deck or out on your porch to convince yourself it will work. You might even put the silver sensor outside and simply run the cable out to it intitially. Eventually, you'll need a better antenna, though. The CM 4228 would be a good bet and should pull in your vhf ch. 13 (WKYT) even though it's a uhf antenna. You could go with the CM 4-bay as well but the 4228 (8-bay) would give you a better shot at WAVE(NBC). WAVE is obviously from a different direction so you'd have to manually rotate the antenna then consider a rotor if it works.

I'm not sure of how directional the SS is but the 4228 is very directional so aiming is important. You'll need to find your bearings to the towers so you can be precise. Go to



http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp)

and punch in the long/lat in decimal form at your location. This will give you exact bearings to all the towers within whatever radius you specify. Mag. variation of -4 is usually about right in our area.

Don't give up, it's worth it.

Will Insight carry the Olympics HD feed in Lexington or am I gonna have to rely on my DXing from WAVE?

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Will Insight carry the Olympics HD feed in Lexington or am I gonna have to rely on my DXing from WAVE?

Do you have Direct? I don't know if you have heard this or not, but Direct
has come to an agreement with NBC to show the Olympics in HD.

http://ir.thomsonfn.com/InvestorRelations/PubNewsStory.aspx?partner=5276&StoryId=118148

Rumor has it that Dish will do this also.

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
Do you have Direct? I don't know if you have heard this or not, but Direct
has come to an agreement with NBC to show the Olympics in HD.

Right ... however the latest word is it will only be available to O&O markets, "white-areas," or markets where another MSO is carrying the HD feed. Which means I'm hosed three times over: no analog white area, no local digital station and to add insult to injury I'm "grade B" for WAVE analog. So, chances of a traditional NBC "waiver" is zero X three. It looks like Insight is my last hope ... Time will tell

I will try and get an answer for you as soon as I can, I have been working a few angles on this for the last few weeks. But as you know, WLEX is months off from beginning broadcasting their digital signal. While from an engineering perspective, I'm pretty sure I could pull the signal in, but there are legal questions that I have other people working on..beleive me, it will not be for a lack of effort on my part..but I cannot promise anything..but will update you as I know...that's the best I can do at this point...thanks.

Winston

Originally posted by bitblaze
I will try and get an answer for you as soon as I can, I have been working a few angles on this for the last few weeks.

Cool ... thanks for looking into this Winston.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Right ... however the latest word is it will only be available to O&O markets, "white-areas," or markets where another MSO is carrying the HD feed. Which means I'm hosed three times over: no analog white area, no local digital station and to add insult to injury I'm "grade B" for WAVE analog. So, chances of a traditional NBC "waiver" is zero X three. It looks like Insight is my last hope ... Time will tell

I thought these agreements were going to have special HD feeds for the Olympics which everyone will get to see. These feeds maybe delayed, but at least in HD. I had heard that NBC might not show much live HD.

Go to NBC.COM and look for Olympic coverage and from what I recall there is a grid that shows all the coverage of all the networks that owns NBC covering the olympic's. From what I remember it will be updated as the games start...quite a few of the games will be on cable/sat channels...looks like very little local network coverage from what I recall..

I did get my answer back on carriage of the Olympics and it was not was I was looking for. Sorry, we will not be able to carry the HD Feed on the Inisght system in Lexington. Our folks in NY went as high up on the chain as possible (NBC), checking feasibility.

Thanks, Winston

I heard from a Dish retailer yesterday that Dish will have the Olympics in HD. From what Dish told him, NBC is going to all their affiliates and asking them to let Dish show this in their DMA's. He said that most of them have agreed to this. Dish is supposed to put out a listing sometime today of all DMA's that will be allowed to see this. Hopefully this will also be the case for Direct.

I would be real interested to see any information that pertains to the Lexington DMA in regards to this.

Here is an interesting article about the Olympics in HD:
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/living/9323526.htm?1c

Originally posted by bitblaze
I did get my answer back on carriage of the Olympics and it was not was I was looking for. Sorry, we will not be able to carry the HD Feed on the Inisght system in Lexington. Our folks in NY went as high up on the chain as possible (NBC), checking feasibility.

Sometimes I wonder if these local affiliates (cough WLEX cough) realize I'm not watching their signal anyway ... In fact I've gone to great lengths to get NBC-HD from WAVE-DT (with mixed results). Sad ...

Here is the current listing of areas that Dish will be allowed to show the Olympics in HD I found at Satelliteguys.us. Lexington isn't listed. NBC is still working on adding areas. Supposedly a final list will be out Wednesday night.
Cincy and Louisville are already on the list. Go figure.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/hdtv/olympics/index.shtml

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
Cincy and Louisville are already on the list. Go figure.


Well of course they would make it available in markets where the satellite/cable feed would be redundant ... makes perfect sense to me :rolleyes:

Odd rumblings on the UPN / WKYT / WBLU front ... In case you haven't noticed, it would appear that WKYT has managed to 'steal' the Lexington UPN affiliation away from WBLU-LP. WKYT has been airing the UPN schedule on a time delay for the past couple of weeks.

Barely founded speculation: Perhaps with the demise of the simulcast rule, we may see UPN on 13.2 at the regular time in the future ... stay tuned ... in the mean time, warm up your VCR's and TiVo's.

Quick update: The UPN website does indeed list WKYT-DT as the Lexington affiliate ... While I am pleased to finally be able to receive UPN, let's hope this doesn't mean yet another 480i sub-channel on top of .2 and .3

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Odd rumblings on the UPN / WKYT / WBLU front ... In case you haven't noticed, it would appear that WKYT has managed to 'steal' the Lexington UPN affiliation away from WBLU-LP. WKYT has been airing the UPN schedule on a time delay for the past couple of weeks.

Barely founded speculation: Perhaps with the demise of the simulcast rule, we may see UPN on 13.2 at the regular time in the future ... stay tuned ... in the mean time, warm up your VCR's and TiVo's.

Quick update: The UPN website does indeed list WKYT-DT as the Lexington affiliate ... While I am pleased to finally be able to receive UPN, let's hope this doesn't mean yet another 480i sub-channel on top of .2 and .3

They have a logo on their website with UPN Lexington WKYT-DT 13
Coming soon!. http://www.wkyt.com/

I hope this doesn't hurt their HD transmission. I like how they would show the HD football games last year, when they weren't on the SD channel.

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
They have a logo on their website with UPN Lexington WKYT-DT 13
Coming soon!. http://www.wkyt.com/

I hope this doesn't hurt their HD transmission. I like how they would show the HD football games last year, when they weren't on the SD channel.

Ah ha! This explains why WKYT has changed their digital broadcast format from 1920X1080i 29.97fps to 1280X720p 59.94fps in the last weeks. I'm thinking they will be able to squeeze in UPN this way. Finally the UPN station will be watchable! Isn't Enterprise in HDTV? I'll be excited if they can show it this way. Hopefully the new format allows for full HD of the UPN shows and not the 480i HDTVChallenged spoke of.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Ah ha! This explains why WKYT has changed their digital broadcast format from 1920X1080i 29.97fps to 1280X720p 59.94fps in the last weeks. ...

Yep I was thinking the same. There's no way they'll be able to do two 720p subchannels and have a watchable result, thus, I doubt that Enterprise will be in HD anytime soon (but at least we can snipe at it like everyone else now :D ). Either way it looks like we can kiss all hope of full bandwidth primetime 1080i CBS HD good bye ... RIP

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Odd rumblings on the UPN / WKYT / WBLU front ... In case you haven't noticed, it would appear that WKYT has managed to 'steal' the Lexington UPN affiliation away from WBLU-LP. WKYT has been airing the UPN schedule on a time delay for the past couple of weeks.


When have they been showing UPN? I have not seen it. 13-2 I assume. Is it at random time? I what to take a look.
Thanks for the info!

Originally posted by Wellington
When have they been showing UPN? I have not seen it. 13-2 I assume. Is it at random time? I what to take a look.
Thanks for the info!

At the moment it starts at ~2:05am on the normal analog/digital simulcasts (that's why the VCR/TiVo is recomended.) It was kind of a stealth move, people with normal day/night hours probably would never have noticed. Anyway, the UPN stuff drops off of the published schedules starting Monday (8/16) - so it could be a good bet that new configuration may start then. I suspect that instead of the usual 480i CBS simulcast on 13-2, they will switch 13-2 over to UPN @ 480i. Pity the poor master switch operator with three seperate feeds to watch.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Anyway, the UPN stuff drops off of the published schedules starting Monday (8/16)

Ok, WKYT updated their schedule this morning and the UPN programming is still on the Late, Late, Latenight burner for the next couple of weeks ... what this means is anyone's guess ... stay tuned :confused:

I was just looking at Titantv.com and at 2:05am this Sunday, WKYT is showing Enterprise in HDTV!! It's on the primary subchannel as well as the secondary subchannel. I wonder if WKYT is going to show the popular UPN shows at 2:05am like this through the fall season. I wouldn't mind if they did it this way.. just as long as they did not broadcast HDTV shows in SD.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I was just looking at Titantv.com and at 2:05am this Sunday, WKYT is showing Enterprise in HDTV!!

LOL ... trust me, it ain't gonna be in HD. FWIW, the D* program guide shows it as HD too, but it's not. Still, SD beats no-D any day.

Now, if WDKY were to pick up the WB feed, we'd be just like all 'dem fancy city folk ;) :D

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
LOL ... trust me, it ain't gonna be in HD. FWIW, the D* program guide shows it as HD too, but it's not. Still, SD beats no-D any day.

Now, if WDKY were to pick up the WB feed, we'd be just like all 'dem fancy city folk ;) :D

I'm recording anyhow with my MyHD card. If it does indeed broadcast in HD, I'll be freaked! I've seen WKYT re-run episodes of CSI at HDTV res at crazy hours in the wee morning, so I remain hopeful.

I would LOVE for the WB to piggyback on a more reachable station here, but more importantly I would LOVE WDKY to point their antenna to Lexington and kick up the power, so those of us with limited housing/antenna mounting options could actually get the signal. If it were not on VHF, that'd be even better as I wouldn't need to buy a VHF antenna. How's that tower coming at Clays Ferry anyhow? If another station acquired WB for Lex, that would mean I could save $6/month off my Dish Network bill as I wouldn't need the superstations package anymore.. and dare I say it... if we could see Smallville in HDTV. I can still dream.. :) I don't think the WB station in Campbellsville even shows Smallville in HD. :(

Well ... its official. Looks like no "authorized" NBC-HD in the Lexington DMA for the Olympics ... (as if I had dared hope for a small bone to be tossed our way.) Warm up those DX rigs ...

HDTVChallenged was right! Enterprise was not in HDTV this morning on WKYT. Don't ya just hate when guides lie to ya? It would be nice if they could do the UPN shows that are in HD shown in HD.

Guys,

They will be going to UPN programming on their 13-2 Digital Channel on 8-16 and we will be picking it up at Insight and converting it to Analog to put on Channel 5 on September 1st. It will be replacing WBLU, which lost the UPN programming last month. Actually very smart on WKYT's part and really good for the community to get the programming back. Our phone's have been lit up...

Winston

Originally posted by BenCJedi
HDTVChallenged was right!

LOL ... it happens at least once or twice a decade :D

......

Winston,

Thanks for the WKYT/UPN confirmation ...

Interesting:

Both analog and digital signals went off the air last night (8/15-16) ... analog back on this morning - digital still down.

Could they be:

a) Firing up the new analog xmitter?
b) Upgrading "master control" for 720p/Fox HD?
c) Just fixing a power problem?

Speculate away ....

Does anyone know which transmitting antenna they intend to use? They have a construction permit for one which is 36kw and away from Danville (and Corbin) as well as an *application* for one which is 26kw and would more likely cover Danville (and Corbin). Here's the link so you can look at it yourself: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WDKY

The first one would be strange for them to use IMO as it would appear someone in Danville would have a very difficult time receiving the signal.
If this is old news I apologize but please someone educate me.

Originally posted by cpcat
*application* for one which is 26kw and would more likely cover Danville (and Corbin).

This is the one that will be ... it is co-located with the new analog plant at Clay's Ferry ... the older CP for 36kW expired/was cancelled.

I don't know exactly how the math works out, but the new 26kW station may not improve things much for Danville folks ... Gonna have twice as much power their direction, but the tower will be twice the distance away ... time will tell.

This is the one that will be ... it is co-located with the new analog plant at Clay's Ferry

Cool. I may even have a shot at it. I've recently been playing around with my horizontal stack of Televes DAT 75's in using them for vhf (that's right, vhf). I can get a steady signal from WYMT ch 12 Hazard but it's through the *back* of the stack i.e. 180 degrees off-axis. I was even able to pick up WKYT the other night but only briefly, again through the back. WDKY's digital signal seems to be best 90 degrees off axis (no picture though) and it's similar with other analog low uhf's like WETP ch. 2 Sneedville and WCYB ch. 5 Bristol.
Hopefully, I'll be in business when they increase power from the new location. I'd rather not get one of those monster low band vhf antennas if I can avoid it.

Originally posted by cpcat
I can get a steady signal from WYMT ch 12 Hazard...

Hopefully, I'll be in business when they increase power from the new location. I'd rather not get one of those monster low band vhf antennas if I can avoid it.
Here's a link to a chart of frequency spectrum allocations... Note that the VHF spectrum is broken up into three bands, two of these bands are allocated for TV channels. One TV band is for channels 2-6 (designated as Low Band VHF), and the other TV band is for channels 7-13 (designated as High Band VHF). Between these two bands of TV VHF channels are your FM radio frequencies (designated Mid Band VHF). Note that the UHF spectrum begins close to where the VHF High Band ends... A UHF only antenna can pickup the High Band VHF signals although at some attenuation (better on the upper range between channels 10-13, than from 7-10). So receiving WDKY-DT on Channel 4 with your UHF only setup will be wishful thinking...

http://www.adec.edu/tag/spectrum.html

On another note, I've been able to receive excellent OTA signal reception from L'ville NBC all weekend with Olympic coverage. I'm guessing they've upped their power some because I've never been able to hang onto them for the entire day before. Usually my best luck is in the evening with the aid of some Tropo enhancement.

So receiving WDKY-DT on Channel 4 with your UHF only setup will be wishful thinking...

That's a great link. I added that one to my favorite's list.
You may be right, but as I said I'm doing o.k. on analog ch. 2 from 65 mi and ch 5 from 110 mi so for now I'll continue to wish and think at the same time.:D

I've gotten WAVE during tropo but never otherwise. I'll have to check it again, though.

Today, Aug 18, 2004, is the 1030th day since WLEX submitted their original digital TV application ... it (apparently) *STILL* has not been approved ...

This is your FCC hard at work folks. :rolleyes:

PS: No apparent changes on the WDKY front either

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Interesting:

Both analog and digital signals went off the air last night (8/15-16) ... analog back on this morning - digital still down.

Could they be:

a) Firing up the new analog xmitter?
b) Upgrading "master control" for 720p/Fox HD?
c) Just fixing a power problem?

Speculate away ....


They were working on the tower lights at the top of the tower.

WUKY was on their low power backup site most of the night.

Originally posted by William Smith
They were working on the tower lights at the top of the tower.

WUKY was on their low power backup site most of the night.

Yeah ... I came to the conclusion that it was just some routine maintainence ... no 720p sightings yet, but the digital signal strength here at the cave is back up a few notches.

Originally posted by ragamuffin

http://www.adec.edu/tag/spectrum.html

On another note, I've been able to receive excellent OTA signal reception from L'ville NBC all weekend with Olympic coverage. I'm guessing they've upped their power some because I've never been able to hang onto them for the entire day before. Usually my best luck is in the evening with the aid of some Tropo enhancement.

I concur. I live near Armstrong Mill on the outer part of Man O War and I've never been able to get L'ville NBC digital ch 47 at all.. until tonight (~9pm)! I stole a Channel Master 4221, temporarily duct taped it on my single story roof, coupled it with the Motorola signal booster (on sale at Circuit City for 49 bucks after mail in rebate) and -BAM- I'm locked in at 49% to 58% according to myHD. If I remove the amp I still get 25% (min to lock) to 32% with an excellent picture and very infrequent glitching- yeah L'Ville NBC! Now if WLEX would get their act together I wouldn't have to figure out a way to make the antenna stay up there a bit more permanently...
:)

Originally posted by rob_fox
I concur. I live near Armstrong Mill on the outer part of Man O War and I've never been able to get L'ville NBC digital ch 47 at all.. until tonight (~9pm)! I stole a Channel Master 4221, temporarily duct taped it on my single story roof, coupled it with the Motorola signal booster (on sale at Circuit City for 49 bucks after mail in rebate) and -BAM- I'm locked in at 49% to 58% according to myHD. If I remove the amp I still get 25% (min to lock) to 32% with an excellent picture and very infrequent glitching- yeah L'Ville NBC! Now if WLEX would get their act together I wouldn't have to figure out a way to make the antenna stay up there a bit more permanently...
:)

Thanks for your post. Now I know what to save some money to buy.. a Channel Master 4228 (the bigger one, as I need to mount it in the attic in my townhome (~7' tall clearance) along with the Motorola signal booster you speak of (is a signal booster the same as a preamp?). I guess I need a VHF antenna sometime for WDKY as it looks like that is way low on the spectrum (ch 4) and not a chance in hell a UHF antenna is going to pick that up. I can wait on that though as FOX here isn't using the widescreen digital as I had hoped for those sitcoms like Malcolm in the Middle as they prominantly display (Fox Digital Widescreen where available). That and after that tower is done maybe Lexingtonians will have a better chance at the signal.

Anyone know if anything has changed at the Cambellsville WB station WBKI (ch 34) (http://www.wbki.tv/friday.html)? Last I heard they were a shoe-string operation and not actually broadcasting in HD, but in SD. I sure would like to see Smallville in HDTV in Lexington. Is this still an impossibility?

Since WKYT is picking up UPN here, I can nearly remove the Superstations package from my Dish account as long as I can get that WB station. If there's a chance I could pick it up digital OTA, I may just buy a good, solid UHF antenna (like the CH 4228) and drop the package subscription from my account (will save me about $72/year.. which is what the antenna would cost thereabouts anyhow).

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Anyone know if anything has changed at the Cambellsville WB station WBKI (ch 34) (http://www.wbki.tv/friday.html)? Last I heard they were a shoe-string operation and not actually broadcasting in HD, but in SD. I sure would like to see Smallville in HDTV in Lexington. Is this still an impossibility?

Digital is still running at ~5.5kW ERP, I'm probably a good 15-20 miles closer than you and have never really gotten a decodeable signal, but then again, the analog signal shows severe multipath here at the cave.

OTOH, reports are that HDNet is going to pick up "Smallville" (starting with season 1) which is good for those of us who've never seen the show.

PS: Looks like KET squashed the DD5.1 bug on KET4, "Soundstage" sounded great last night.

I was wondering if that got it..

Originally posted by William Smith
I was wondering if that got it..

Yep .. confirmed from the E-town, Louisville, and Richmond transmitters.

Hi all, newb here trying to figure out what I should be able to get here OTA. I'm using a U75r ant. from radioshack with a hughes E-86. I'm halfway between winchester and mt.sterling right beside I64. Anyone else out this way? Right now I'm getting abc and cbs hd from Lexington, what else is out there? Thanks for any help in advance

N.reed,
Go to http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp and put in your lat/long in decimal form and you'll have everything you need. Magnetic declination is usually around -4 in this area. You can put in any radius you want.

N.Reed, This will help too:

http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/ky/digital_television.asp

I changed out some wiring tonight and was able to pick up WAVE in Louisville. I saw all of 20 seconds of the Olympics in HD! LOL!

http://home.insightbb.com/~refuel/pics/Ch47_NBC_Louisville.jpg

Just think if I had a decent antenna like a CM 4228 and a preamp. I now know that the attic won't matter if I want NBC-DT now.. I just need better receptive equipment and I should be able to hit it reliably.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I changed out some wiring tonight and was able to pick up WAVE in Louisville. I saw all of 20 seconds of the Olympics in HD! LOL!

Just think if I had a decent antenna like a CM 4228 and a preamp. I now know that the attic won't matter if I want NBC-DT now.. I just need better receptive equipment and I should be able to hit it reliably.

Changed out some wiring? What did you have before and what do you have now?

Originally posted by rob_fox
Changed out some wiring? What did you have before and what do you have now?

Twin lead that was crumbling apart and some shotty RG59 cable. Much better now. The antenna is definitely more receptive. I was able to pick up WAVE-DT for about 20 minutes and a CBS-DT station in St Louis the wee morning before last. I didn't have that luck this morning though. I think a Channel Master 4228 would do me real good over what I have now.

Is there a WB in Cinci that Lexington can hit?

EDIT: From the Cincinnati thread:
WSTR-DT 33 (64-1) - WB - SD only no HD - http://www.wb64.net/
So no HD for them either, unless things have changed since the second post of that thread.

Well, the first semi-official schedule for WKYT/UPN-DT (13.2) is out. For your viewing enjoyment (or horror):

Beginning 12:00AM Aug 31,2004,
The typical weekday schedule includes:

The expected 2Hrs of UPN primetime,
1Hr of "UPN News,"
9Hrs of "Jewelery Shopping Network", (can't wait for that :D )
12Hrs of syndicated programming - a mixture of recent and "old-school" favorites.

The weekend schedule looks like it will be a mixture of the CBS simulcast, syndicated programs, and repeats of UPN programming.

Questions unanswered:

1) Will WKYT still manage to preempt everything whenever UK plays or Tubby gets a cold?

2) Will HD Y&R fans loose their afternoon HD fix?

Leaving nothing to chance, my DX rig pointed at WLKY will remain in service ... YMMV

I had actually emailed the WKYT senior VP of operations this morning asking about their UPN programming.. specifically if they have the capability to broadcast Enterprise in HDTV and if they would continue with the 2:05am airings of the UPN primetime shows (I don't care if they want to show Enterprise in HDTV at 2:05am.. works for me). I was disappointed to see they don't even mention Enterprise on the WKYT UPN schedule webpage though. It's nice they picked up UPN and all, but I'd rather see what they can do in HD, in HD, even at unGodly hours. I'd imagine though with all the UPN being on 13.2 it's going to mean the .1 subchannel will resort to advertisers and stupid infomercials in the wee hours of the morning. What a waste of their HD subchannel. :(

Originally posted by BenCJedi
.... specifically if they have the capability to broadcast Enterprise in HDTV .... I'd imagine though with all the UPN being on 13.2 it's going to mean the .1 subchannel will resort to advertisers and stupid infomercials in the wee hours of the morning. What a waste of their HD subchannel. :(

Re: Enterprise in HD it's either

a) A bandwidth thing ... there's just not enough to do two HD services at the same time and Enterprise (low, low rating) is up against Joan of A. (boffo ratings)

b) Even if KYT continued the early AM showings, it's highly doubful that WKYT would invest in a broadcast quality HD VTR just to show one of the lowest (Nielson) rated shows on TV in HD in a time when few people are actually awake ... they haven't show any interest in doing that for pre-empted, time-delayed CBS programs, so figure the odds :D

If you see something in HD on WKYT it's almost certainly coming directly from the live network feed ... if you saw HD in the wee hours, it's probably because somebody forgot to throw the switch back to SD at 11:00pm. (This has happened on occasion.)

Please don't kill the messenger, I just try to report the facts ... :)

PS: Actually CBS has an overnight newscast in the wee-hours

Well it (UPN) is up, 1/2 a day earlier than expected .... but WKYT seems to have messed up the audio on 13.1 in the process, everything is coming out of the right-front speaker - center, left and rears are silent.

I just realized I must have my computer speakers around backwards then (right is left and left is right). I wrote to the WKYT Senior V.P.-Operations guy about the screwy audio, but they may already know. National DTV feeds from CBS are ok (like the Amazing Race and Big Brother were fine this evening). It looks like locally encoded programming has the audio channel screwup on the .1 subchannel. .2 with the UPN stuff is fine.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
It looks like locally encoded programming has the audio channel screwup on the .1 subchannel. .2 with the UPN stuff is fine.

Yep, same here. Wouldn't surprise me if somebody just missed pluging in a patch cord somewhere. It's starting to drive me nuts though

I heard yesterday on the "Chris Cross" show on AM1300 that the digital antenna to be built at Clays Ferry was approved. The bad news is that it won't be ready until the end of November. I live in between exit 97 and exit 95 off of I-75, close to Clays Ferry. Is it possible to be too close to the antenna? I am dying to see more NFL games in high def.

Originally posted by pczarapa
I heard yesterday on the "Chris Cross" show on AM1300 that the digital antenna to be built at Clays Ferry was approved. The bad news is that it won't be ready until the end of November. I live in between exit 97 and exit 95 off of I-75, close to Clays Ferry. Is it possible to be too close to the antenna? I am dying to see more NFL games in high def.

Only if they also got new equipment (the 720p I had read about) because currently they are just using standard definition digital in Danville anyhow. One would hope new tower + new equiptment = 'FOX digital widescreen' (as seen on several FOX shows).

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Only if they also got new equipment (the 720p I had read about) because currently they are just using standard definition digital in Danville anyhow. One would hope new tower + new equiptment = 'FOX digital widescreen' (as seen on several FOX shows).


Based on what they were saying, it will be new equipment. The engineer that talked to Drew Deener said it was expensive as hell. Hopefully this will be true high def and not sd.

Originally posted by pczarapa
Based on what they were saying, it will be new equipment. The engineer that talked to Drew Deener said it was expensive as hell. Hopefully this will be true high def and not sd.

So the only real concern should be "are they gonna point that thing to hit South Lexington and force me to buy a VHF antenna?". :)

Good question, don't know if it's UHF or VHF

Originally posted by pczarapa
I heard yesterday on the "Chris Cross" show on AM1300 that the digital antenna to be built at Clays Ferry was approved.

I quick check on the FCC web site shows no recent status changes for either WDKY or WLEX. WDKY has been approved to build the new tower and analog plant which is a good chunk of the battle ... I suspect that FCC is waiting until the new tower is actually built to make the digital permit "official."

FWIW, I've been assured (publicly) by Mr. DTV that WDKY is "scheduled" to upgrade to HD - he just didn't actually say when it was "scheduled" to happen. :rolleyes: :D

WDKY-DT is VHF , from exit 95-97 area you should be able to get it on a paper clip.

Excellent, I'll set one aside! :D

As of Today ... FCC CDBS Database Now shows WLEX-DT's CP for 39 (475KW ERP) has been GRANTED on 9/2/04 ... It's about time!

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=73203

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
As of Today ... FCC CDBS Database Now shows WLEX-DT's CP for 39 (475KW ERP) has been GRANTED on 9/2/04 ... It's about time!

Garn! You scooped me ... all that tedious checking and rechecking down the drain :D

Now, how long will we have to wait for the antenna to be manufactured, I wonder ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
As of Today ... FCC CDBS Database Now shows WLEX-DT's CP for 39 (475KW ERP) has been GRANTED on 9/2/04 ... It's about time!

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=73203

How weird that they just updated their website with this:


September 2, 2004:

We’re still waiting for the FCC to issue our Construction Permit for DTV. At that time we can finalize our lease to mount an antenna on their tower for our Channel 39 DTV signal. Once we have the lease formalized we will order the antenna, which will take several months to build.

Our new Harris DTV transmitter is stored at WLEX until the antenna arrives.

Dave Powell, Chief Engineer, WLEX-TV / WLEX-DT

Originally posted by Gruber22
How weird that they just updated their website with this:


Something must have gone astray when they posted the update ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still waiting for WKYT to find the other patch cord (for the left channel on 13.1 ) too ... Everything was working fine until UPN went online :confused: :D

I'm sure this has been covered in the last thirty pages or so, but could someone tell me why 36.1 only has dolby digital 5.0 instead of 5.1? Where is the LFE channel? Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by N.REED
Where is the LFE channel? Thanks in advance.

There's only going to be a full 5.1 mix if/when ABC sends it from the network ... Although, some have questioned whether WTVQ is actually passing 5.1 or are just setting the flag, in either case they are leaving the encoder set on 5.1 even when the actual audio source is 2.0 ... In short, we don't really know what WTVQ is doing to the audio, but I'm pretty sure I've heard my LFE kick in on 5.1 movies :confused:

My receiver displays what it is decoding in the first few seconds of audio ( like when I change the channel ) and it reads dolby 3/2 instead of the dolby 3/2.1 it displays with 5.1. I think something is not right on their end. A few of the movies they have shown are also in my dvd collection so it is easy to compare... there is a substantial diff. with the output of my subs. What is the chance that they just don't know it is not right at the station? Maybe I should contact them? Does anyone have a contact there?

I am getting annoyed with WKYT and their mono, single-speaker broadcasts. I only hear Letterman in my right speaker. Did they have to borrow audio bandwidth for the UPN subchannel, so they stunted us an audio channel on the .1 subchannel?

Hey! The audio on KYT gets fixed when the storm weather/flood warning crawl and **beep beep* message comes up!

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Hey! The audio on KYT gets fixed when the storm weather/flood warning crawl and **beep beep* message comes up!

You noticed that too eh? I'm wondering if they moved their stereo equipment over to the UPN side ... It does sound like WKYT analog and D* LiL are running in mono.

I called WTVQ today concerning the audio feed. The engineer was very helpful and said that he thought they were sending out a stereo signal , but he is gonna check and give me a call back. Also he said to check out 36.2 for 24 hour news coverage tha ABC is supplying. On another note , I also called WKYT and they said they had no plans to do anything but stereo in the near future, so I wouldn't look for anything better from them for a while.

Well right now WKYT is doing MONO on the primary subchannel (right audio channel only). I still think someome forgot to plug in a patch chord when they added in UPN.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I still think someome forgot to plug in a patch chord when they added in UPN.

Me too, although I'm skeptical that they (WKYT) are even sending stereo/DPL on the analog channel.

BTW, I see WLEX is still claiming that they are waiting on the FCC ... perhaps I should send them a copy of the authorization letter that I downloaded off the FCC web site. :rolleyes:

Perhaps they are trying to get an LP STA now. That was the original plan way back in 2001/2002 :confused:

although I'm skeptical that they (WKYT) are even sending stereo/DPL on the analog channel.


Confirmed from watching a bit of "King of Queens" on the analog channel (9/8 @ 9pm):

It looks like the WKYT 13.1 audio problem is actually being caused by something on the *analog* side of the station - specifically something near or bypassed by the weather alert crawler/graphics system. As stated earlier in the thread, when the weather crawler pops up, the audio is stereo/DPL as it should be; when the crawler cuts out, the audio "collapses" back to mono even on the analog transmitter.

N.REED,
re: WTVQ audio

I got up off the lazyboy and checked all my speakers during a bit of Wayan's program (which should be in 5.1) - and indeed the only speakers that were active were the left and right fronts - no center, no rears. So it looks like WTVQ is setting the 5.1 flag but only passing (incorrectly) a DPL 2.0 mix.

Someone please help me. I have installed a digital antenna in my attic and was able to pull in the Lex locals in HD. But when there is a big storm everything is lost even after the storm clears up. After the first stom I changed out one of my diplexers and everything worked great again. Then the second rain storm and lost it all again. Got a amplifier and everything then worked great. Then came the third storm and lost it all. Tried changing out the diplexer again and nothing. Now it has been over a month and I can't get any of the local HD channels. I'm in need of some help.

What antenna and amplifier are you using?

I'd check the aim of the antenna first. Go to http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp and punch in your coordinates for precise bearings to the towers.

The other thing it could be is tropospheric ducting. It could be that you were getting the stations only in times of ducting. Storms occur with fronts commonly and after passage of the front typically ducting dissipates. Possibly you need a bigger antenna or preferably even an outdoor one for reliable reception. Go to http://home.cogeco.ca/~vem3ont22/propagation/tr-modes.htm for an explanation of tropospheric ducting, enhancement, etc.

Originally posted by HeartPumper
Someone please help me. I have installed a digital antenna in my attic and was able to pull in the Lex locals in HD. ... I'm in need of some help.
HeartPumper, where do you live? The WKYT-DT and WTVQ-DT towers are located at the intersection of Man-O'War and Winchester Roads, the KET/WKLE-DT tower is located where I-75 crosses the Kentucky River. If you're in the Lexington city area (i.e. inside Man-O'War, you should not have any problem receiving any of these stations with an appropriate antenna). You should not have to use an amplifier if you're within 30-40 miles of these towers.

Sounds like you're muxing the DT signal over an existing Satellite cable? (i.e. you mention the use of diplexers). Have you tried running a cable directly to your HD OTA receiver?

What make and model is your "digital antenna"? An omni-directional antenna can be problematic in picking up HD. Do you have any tall buildings or trees between your antenna and the transmission towers.

One of the best ways to optimally direct your antenna (assuming it's directional and not omni-directional), is to use it with an analog TV and tune in the corresponding analog TV channel and move your antenna until you have minimal ghosting. For digital WKYT-DT (on Channel 13), use their analog Channel 27. For digital WTVQ-DT (on Channel 40), use their analog Channel 36. For digital KET/WKLE-DT (on Channel 42), use their analog Channel 46.

How many other signal inhibitors do you have in your signal path to your OTA HD receiver? Every diplexor, splitter, coupler, and long lengths of cable (and type of cable... RG-59 isn't great stuff, RG6 is much better, RG11 is best but probably not necessary) can deterioriate your signal. And your roof (since you're inside the attic) can be a problem as well... a shingled roof can drop your signal 10db... if it's got a double layer of shingles, probably a few additional dB's of signal level will be lost ... Is there any big metal objects (like heaters, and ducting) in your attic that can block (or bounce) the signal?

You mention having these problems after a storm... do you think you may have been struck by lightning? In other words, do you think your HD OTA receiver may be damaged? What HD OTA receiver are you using?

I'm confused. Are these facts correct?

o WDKY is currently constructing a new tower with more favorable radiation pattern towards Lexington for FOX-HD (presumably with the new splicer equiptment other areas in the nation are all ga-ga over).
This tower has (?):

a) construction already in progress ("I can see pea-sized people from up here")
b) has not even begun to be constructed


o WLEX recently was approved to also build a new tower for their digital broadcasting. They have the equipment on-hand according to chief engineer Dave Powell. So WLEX is waiting for a building permit and to have the antenna manufactured?


My e-mails to WDKY have gone unanswered since I first wrote to them in December 2003. Do they ever answer email?

It'd be nice if both these stations fell into place by the holidays. Should we start a pot on when these projects will come to fruition?

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I'm confused. Are these facts correct?

RE: WDKY, yes the new tower is under construction (according to spy reports from William Smith.) There's an unconfirmed rumor that they may be up and running by Nov.

Note: since their (WDKY's) new digital permit has yet to be issued, they could theoretically take up to another year to bring the new digital antenna online ... we are talking about Sinclair here, so anything is possible.

I've never tried communicating with WDKY - best I've done is a couple of posts here from the Sinclair bigwig (MrDTV)

RE: WLEX, yes their construction permit was issued (finally) on Sep 2, 2004 - apparently it took a week to arrive by snail-mail ... BTW AFAIK, they are *not* actually building a new tower, but will be leasing space on WTVQ's tower (or at least that was the original plan) ... so don't be surprised if we lose WTVQ from time to time. Mr. Powell has posted an update on WLEX's website. The current ETA is 1st quarter 2005.

WLEX and WTVQ are planning to share an antenna near the top of the WTVQ tower.

WDKY's new antenna system will support both their analog and digital signals. The anchors are in progress but I understand that the actual tower is being delayed by steel shortages... (China is buying everything it can get its hands on at premium prices.)

Originally posted by William Smith
WLEX and WTVQ are planning to share an antenna near the top of the WTVQ tower. ....

Interesting ... I'm assuming that means a 'combiner' type setup ... Hoping perhaps WTVQ will go full power too :) ... Not that I have too much trouble getting them now that I've pulled my crappy ratshack pre-amp out of the line.

Re: WDKY ... wow, I would have expected them to be much farther along by now. So how long does it take to raise a tower, assuming everything is in place and no abnormal weather patterns set in?

There were other issues that I won't go into here,,, suffice it to say that if they can get the steel they should be up rather quickly..

Wow. I cannot believe WLEX is not up and running yet. These guys are sooo far behind. I love NBC shows, but we have been watching CBS just for the Hi Def programming. I want to go back to WLEX and catch Las Vegas, Law & Order, Father of the Pride, Hawaii, etc....

WLEX hurry up. You're losing customers everyday!!

Originally posted by William Smith
There were other issues that I won't go into here,,, suffice it to say that if they can get the steel they should be up rather quickly..

Ya know ... I just had an evil CatBert idea for you guys when you've got some free bandwidth time (KET3). Mount a tower spycam at WKLE and aim it at the WDKY tower site ... then we could watch the new tower going up (or the complete lack of activity) as the case may be. There's your reality TV ... Bwahhahaha ... :D

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Ya know ... I just had an evil CatBert idea for you guys when you've got some free bandwidth time (KET3). Mount a tower spycam at WKLE and aim it at the WDKY tower site ... then we could watch the new tower going up (or the complete lack of activity) as the case may be. There's your reality TV ... Bwahhahaha ... :D

"AVSForum Big Brother"

Sound is fixed on WKYT

Is anybody placing bets when WLEX will actually be broadcasting?
They have pushed it back to the 2nd quarter now.
Maybe by next season's start?

September 21, 2004

On September 9, we received our long-awaited Construction Permit from the FCC for our DTV transmitter. With ordering the antenna and considerable construction to be done, we hope to be on second quarter of 2005, at our full licensed power of 475 Kilowatts.

DTV (Digital TeleVision) includes, but is not limited to, High Definition. We intend to carry all NBC HD programming.

Dave Powell, Chief Engineer, WLEX-TV/WLEX-DT

I tried to get a DTV waiver from WLEX until they are broadcasting HD. Here is the response I recieved:



From: Dave Powell
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: HDTV - DirecTV waiver



I wish we had been on DTV long ago, but we in Lexington had no control over that. Now we have our Construction Permit but we will start out at full power, for which we must exchange our stored low-power transmitter. We expect to hit July 1 next year. The delay is frustrating here, too.

I checked with my boss. I can't issue a waiver.



Dave

Originally posted by bfdhe
... We expect to hit July 1 next year. ...

Looks like WAVE wins for the season then ...

However, with the FCC on the war path about getting stations up to their full authorized power, it makes sense to skip the low-power option at this point ...

Where are you and how are you getting WAVE? I can't receive it. I am in Hartland in Lexington.

Originally posted by bfdhe
Where are you and how are you getting WAVE? I can't receive it. I am in Hartland in Lexington.

I'm at Clays Mill and Man O War and have only been able to get it really early in the morning (like 4am), but my UHF antenna is in the attic and is also cheap. My amplifier is also 'noisy' (and also was cheap). I intent to upgrade to a channel master 4228 or something if it will fit through the attic hatch. I think I will have a better chance at hitting WAVE then.

I also get WAVE and I'm off Clays Mill. I have a 4228 in my attic pointing to about 295 degrees. Usually only comes in at night when conditions are good. Some nights I rotate as much as 10 degrees to lock in.

Originally posted by bfdhe
Where are you and how are you getting WAVE?

An undisclosed location a significant distance away from the Lex metro area. (In other words, my experience may not be typical for you guys in Lexington proper) .... As far as the hardware goes, it's a CM4228 + Winegard AP4800 (similar to CM7775.) You guys will have much better luck if you get the hardware outside ... In my case, I also have a very favorable terrain profile between the tower and my house.

Unfortunately I rent, but have a 20" satellite dish on a 10' water pipe cemented in a 5-gallon bucket on my balcony (property owner said no mounting dishes to the building). I wonder if I would be able to attach a CM4228 onto my dish mount or if it would destabilize the whole thing by making it act like a sail. I'm behind a bunch of trees (hence the need for the 10' pipe), so the wind is protected mostly by the foliage (these trees don't lose their leaves in winter). What's that law that says I'm entitled to mount an antenna in order to receive TV? I'm afraid if I can mount a UHF antenna outside on my mount, I may create an eyesore and trouble for myself. Just want to be versed on the law in regard to antennas.

I enjoy HD, but we seriously live in a crappy location for the next generation of TV. Two of the major networks are still not on-board and we lack a digital WB (as does Cincinnati and Louisville, so that's understandable). It's just weird my favorite shows are on networks that have affiliates out here that are behind on the migration to pure digital TV.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Unfortunately I rent, but have a 20" satellite dish on a 10' water pipe cemented in a 5-gallon bucket on my balcony (property owner said no mounting dishes to the building). I wonder if I would be able to attach a CM4228 onto my dish mount or if it would destabilize the whole thing by making it act like a sail.

I'm sure the wind load on a CM4228 is much less than the load on a 20" dish. The limited mounting options/locations is probably more of an obstacle.

I live in the Hamburg area and was wondering if anyone can pick up the
Cincy locals in Lexington. If you can where are you located and what
antenna are you using? I have a CM 3016 in the attic and I can
pick up WKYT, WTVQ, WKLE, and hopefully WDKY when it moves over by
WKLE. I tried a CM 4228 with a preamp in my attic, but was unable to get
anything from Louisville or Cincy. If someone is able to get Cincy I might
try an move the 4228 up on the roof.

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
I tried a CM 4228 with a preamp in my attic, but was unable to get
anything from Louisville or Cincy.

Again I can't answer for your specific situation, but as an FYI I got *zero* signal from my 4228 in the attic, outside it's pulling 100% on WLKY-DT and WAVE-DT during primetime. Location, Location, Location even outside is muy important for UHF ... OTOH, the Lexington "bowlish" terrain may be a significant obstacle.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Again I can't answer for your specific situation, but as an FYI I got *zero* signal from my 4228 in the attic, outside it's pulling 100% on WLKY-DT and WAVE-DT during primetime. Location, Location, Location even outside is muy important for UHF ... OTOH, the Lexington "bowlish" terrain may be a significant obstacle.

I sometimes pick up the CBS channel in Cinci with the previous mentioned equipment, but it is very early in the AM when that happens. Like HDTVChallenged, it's all location. I'd have a better shot even if I moved said crappy antenna outside I think.

Thanks for that link to the antenna regulations. I figured I was within my rights to put one outside, no matter how ugly people may deem the contracption being. I'm using my balcony which is space I rent. I wonder what the 'ceiling' limit would be for how tall something can exist on the balcony. Since I used a standard water pipe, I could effectively screw on an adapter with skinnier pole to mount the antenna on there and could achieve about the same height the antenna is at now in the attic.

So I live in Lexington, Ky (Leestown road area, Rosewood Neighborhood)My cable bill is now $110.00 a month.
How is my cable bill $110.00 a month, you might ask?

$44.95 a month for awesome 4.0dl/256ul internet
$12.66 a month for basic cable
$26.29 a month for digital cable
$ 5.00 a month for the Family Pack of digital cable channels
$ 7.95 a month for the HDTV Pack of channels
$12.95 a month for the nice Motorola DCT6204 HD receiver and PVR
$ 4.95 a month for an extra Motorola DCT2200 Digital Receiver

add all of that together, then subtract 15.00 for discounts then add taxes... and we arrive to between $107.00 to $110.00 a month...

Now for $55.95, theDishnetwork will give me a PVR and an HDTV receiver and 2 other receivers for a total of 4 receivers for 4 rooms, complete with 120 channels and HD programming.
Should I save the extra 10 dollars and go with Satellite. Is the quality of DN's satellite here in the Lexington area worse, the same, or better than Insightbb?

WDKY is now broadcasting 720p!!!!!!!! (I presume)

The Simpson's is upconverted w/ graybars even as I type!

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
WDKY is now broadcasting 720p!!!!!!!! (I presume)

The Simpson's is upconverted w/ graybars even as I type!


Have they bumped up their power?

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
Have they bumped up their power?

Whew! Had to pinch myself a few times there ....

Anyway, doesn't look like the power up yet ... I'm still getting the same signal strength/quality as before (~72%.) It doesn't look like anything is in HD on FOX tonight either. At minimum, it looks they're ready for the splicer team install team now (if that hasn't already occured.) Stay tuned ...

Looks like FOX HD splicer feed is up on WDKY .... break out those lowband antennas .... :D

Edit: Really, I'm not kidding folks :D ... big blue FOX logo and DD5.1, although the all the programming appeared to be upconverts from the network. I guess we'll know for sure on Sunday.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Looks like FOX HD splicer feed is up on WDKY .... break out those lowband antennas .... :D

Edit: Really, I'm not kidding folks :D ... big blue FOX logo and DD5.1, although the all the programming appeared to be upconverts from the network. I guess we'll know for sure on Sunday.

So they're at the new tower? They were able to get the steel? Or have they just used the new equiptment at the old location? I don't have a VHF antenna to try to get it. I didn't expect to need one for a long time. Hmmm

Originally posted by BenCJedi
So they're at the new tower?

Don't know, but I don't think so. We need you Northerner's to check with a pair of rabbit ears or something as I doubt that I will see a big change in signal strength here at the cave.

I think transmitter/tower has always been 'remote' from the studios/master-control, so I think it's entirely possible that they could get the HD/splicer "guts" upgraded before the new tower is online.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Don't know, but I don't think so. We need you Northerner's to check with a pair of rabbit ears or something as I doubt that I will see a big change in signal strength here at the cave.

I think transmitter/tower has always been 'remote' from the studios/master-control, so I think it's entirely possible that they could get the HD/splicer "guts" upgraded before the new tower is online.


Old tower!

Hooked in an OK UHF/VHF TV set top antenna and not a blip for ch 4 on my MyHD which has one of the most sensitive tuners. I guess I will be waiting for the new tower and more favorable radiation pattern. Good to know they have the splicer and all that jazz. I need to buy a VHF antenna for either the attic or the outside. Do VHF antennas generally come with foldout elements, so I could fit it through the portal into the ceiling? To avoid commotion I may just try it inside. The sucky part is I will need to buy an antenna JUST for WDKY as it is the only VHF channel, right? I should probably wait until we're 100% sure the new tower is operating, so I purchase the antenna with the best chance of getting ch 4.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
.... I need to buy a VHF antenna for either the attic or the outside. Do VHF antennas generally come with foldout elements, so I could fit it through the portal into the ceiling? ....

Yep, almost all the common combos use a foldout design these days ... However, I would think that a pair of rabbit ears would suffice once the new tower is up ... so keep your set top handy ... just make sure you extend the "ears" nearly all the way (about 93" tip to tip is optimal for ch 4)

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Yep, almost all the common combos use a foldout design these days ... However, I would think that a pair of rabbit ears would suffice once the new tower is up ... so keep your set top handy ... just make sure you extend the "ears" nearly all the way (about 93" tip to tip is optimal for ch 4)

Good point! I hadn't considered that with the new tower the set top rabbit ears might be just enough (they are not attached to the TV.. one of those base unit antennas that can be set on the TV or off to the side). Looks like this without the amplification:

http://www.summitsource.com/images/product/ANT300.jpg

Is it possible to get some sort of mixer device I can use with the current UHF antenna and the set top one to strip out the UHF signal on the set top antenna, but allow only the VHF? I'd like to combine them, but before the signal enters the amp that the UHF antenna is currently plugged into. I could probably crack the set top antenna open and disconnect the wires from the middle circle piece (as I believe that is for the UHF) and have VHF-only, but I need some sort of mixer to get it working with the UHF antenna in the attic.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Is it possible to get some sort of mixer device I can use with the current UHF antenna and the set top one to strip out the UHF signal on the set top antenna, but allow only the VHF?
My CM-7777 pre-amp has separate UHF and VHF inputs that can be fed separately and then in turn are combined, amplified, and then provided on a single output for my receiver. You'll possibly need to add an attenuator for the locals if you went this route...

http://www.solidsignal.com/tech_help_CM777X.asp

Perhaps of some help --- I Noticed that FCC has recently added predicted coverage area maps to their TV query site.

This one shows predicted coverage area(28dbu contour is used for lo-VHF) for WDKY-DT's current, STA facilities :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS618151.html

This one shows predicted coverage area for WDKY-DT's current CP App (26.4KW ERP@1072FT HAAT) for the new Clay's ferry location :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT702393.html

I can't recall the exact specifics FCC uses for the receiving end concerning what should, generally work on the "Fringe" of the coverage area(not counting terrain issues, or interference issues)-- If I recall, I think it involves an antenna(with 10dbi or 10dbd of gain perhaps, or is it a reference dipole with no real gain?) mounted(outdoors of course) 30FT above ground level at the receiving location.

For the most part, the maps look a tad "optimistic" to me(especially say if you're NE/N or NW of WDKY-DT's current Facilities), but perhaps that is a GOOD thing since I think this is(28dbu contour for VHF-lo, 41dbu contour for UHF) the commision is using to define service area, which has direct implications concerning interference protection ....

Originally posted by ragamuffin
My CM-7777 pre-amp has separate UHF and VHF inputs that can be fed separately and then in turn are combined, amplified, and then provided on a single output for my receiver. You'll possibly need to add an attenuator for the locals if you went this route...

http://www.solidsignal.com/tech_help_CM777X.asp

Thanks! That sounds like what I need, given that my current device used for amplification is this:

http://mcm.newark.com/productimages/standard/3938228.jpg
http://mcm.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/mcm/en_US/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=33-290&N=4
I'm told the noise figures are not good on it:
http://www.newark.com/product-details/text/mcm/html/33-290.html

But without this, I cannot even pick up WTVQ-DT. The Channel Master 7777 from the little I have googled is THE pre-amp to get. So the UHF/VHF/FM amplifier I am using now is different than the pre-amp. I have it very close to the antenna with the cable coming off that downstairs, so I guess I am using it like a pre-amp, right? I'll take it out of the equation if I get a CM7777. The going rate for the CM7777 is $50. Is it about that price locally?

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Perhaps of some help --- I Noticed that FCC has recently added predicted coverage area maps to their TV query site.

Cool find ... Shows just how ridiculous the artificial DMA bounderies really are.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Cool find ... Shows just how ridiculous the artificial DMA bounderies really are.

I like that second map much better. Hope WDKY can make that a reality soon.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
But without this, I cannot even pick up WTVQ-DT.

Ugh! ... if you're having trouble with WTVQ, then you probably have your antenna in the wrong place. That having been said, yes the CM7777 is a good choice and $50 is a good price, although I don't know of any local BandM stores that carry them.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Ugh! ... if you're having trouble with WTVQ, then you probably have your antenna in the wrong place. That having been said, yes the CM7777 is a good choice and $50 is a good price, although I don't know of any local BandM stores that carry them.

Yeah, but I have much limited option. I get around 78% signal with that amp which is cool enough for the card to lock on. I get about the same with the PBS station and around 87-100% with WKYT with this arrangement. I'm going to call that electronics place on Skain Ave that the channelmaster website had on its dealer locator and ask if they sell CM7777. It seems everyone charges $10 shipping online that nullifies the savings.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Yeah, but I have much limited option. I get around 78% signal with that amp which is cool enough for the card to lock on. I get about the same with the PBS station and around 87-100% with WKYT with this arrangement. I'm going to call that electronics place on Skain Ave that the channelmaster website had on its dealer locator and ask if they sell CM7777. It seems everyone charges $10 shipping online that nullifies the savings.


I called them last week. They don't have it, but they can order it .

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
I called them last week. They don't have it, but they can order it .

Did you ask how much they are charging for it?

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Did you ask how much they are charging for it?


Sorry, no I didn't.

Well any doubts in my mind that WDKY didn't get the splicer installed have just been erased. MLB pre-game show is up in glorious FOX WS upconvert ... NFL fans start yer salivating ;)

Yes ... it appears that WDKY-DT is now finally worth your valueble time and effort to reel in. If this keeps up, I may have to change my handle.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Well any doubts in my mind that WDKY didn't get the splicer installed have just been erased. MLB pre-game show is up in glorious FOX WS upconvert ... NFL fans start yer salivating ;)

Yes ... it appears that WDKY-DT is now finally worth your valueble time and effort to reel in. If this keeps up, I may have to change my handle.
you're killing me HDC... that means MLB World Series in HD on Fox! If they don't up the power, do you have any extra room on your couch? :D

Yeah HDC! You're making the majority of Lexington pissed/jealous. :)

Can we donate steel to WDKY to build that new tower? I have some stainless steel flatware I'd give them if it helps. :D
What are places like King's Island doing with China taking all the steel? I guess they build wooden coasters instead? All I'm asking for is one stinking tower, so we can enjoy digital FOX out here.

Anyone live close to the construction site? I'd personally like a webcam serving pictures at least once a day, so I could spy on the progress (or lack thereof).

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Yeah HDC! You're making the majority of Lexington pissed/jealous. :)

Well don't get too upset, there's still the low power and low-VHF band issues to deal with. For me, WDKY will come in fine for hours at a stretch, then for no apparent reason go through 10-15mins of complete breakup even with 93-100% on the meter - very frustrating. :eek:

Called WDKY this afternoon and talked to their engineer. He said that the steel has arrived for the antenna and the crew said it would be 6-8 weeks for it to be completed. He said that they would then need to move their equipment to transmit to Lexington. He told me their goal was to be completed by the Super Bowl. They could be up earlier, but not by the World Series.

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
Called WDKY this afternoon and talked to their engineer. He said that the steel has arrived for the antenna and the crew said it would be 6-8 weeks for it to be completed. He said that they would then need to move their equipment to transmit to Lexington. He told me their goal was to be completed by the Super Bowl. They could be up earlier, but not by the World Series.

AWESOME! Strangely I had a dream last night that WDKY-DT was online today (in Lexington) -- I just needed to try to tune it in (which I did in my dream) and I was surprised (in my dream) that no one posted here because it was so easy to pick up in Lexington. So I come on here and see your post. Of all things to dream about... picking up a digital TV signal from WDKY in Lexington - LOL!

6-8 weeks shouldn't be too long of a wait.... at least I won't miss too much of the OC (in HD?) since it does not start the new season until November.

Why is WLEX going to take much longer? They don't need to build a new tower, they already have the equiptment and I thought they were just going to rent space on the same tower WTVQ is using. Does it have to do with their permit to broadcast?

Originally posted by BenCJedi
6-8 weeks shouldn't be too long of a wait.... at least I won't miss too much of the OC (in HD?) since it does not start the new season until November.

Why is WLEX going to take much longer? They don't need to build a new tower, they already have the equiptment and I thought they were just going to rent space on the same tower WTVQ is using. Does it have to do with their permit to broadcast?


The 6-8 weeks is the guess on the tower being built. He said they would have to move their equipment once it was completed, so it will probably be longer than that. He said weather could be a factor too.

WLEX finally got the construction permit and ordered their equipment. WLEX's engineer said it would take 6 months to get the equipment in. He
is saying it will be the 2nd quarter of next year before they transmit.
Personally, I think the parent company dropped the ball on this. They have had some of the same problems getting their permit at other stations they own.

I'm in Richmond, Ky and used to be able to get a strong signal for 27 on my antenna. Since it changed to dtv 13 I can't pick it up. Channel 36 and 46 still come in strongly. I have a Dish 811 receiver with a Mit 65 diamond tv. Any help would be appreciated.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Of all things to dream about... picking up a digital TV signal from WDKY in Lexington - LOL!

Have we become obsessed? :D

Anyway, yesterday was kind of a rough one for WDKY here at the cave ... mucho RF/EMI/whatever interference all afternoon (or perhaps the encoder was acting up.) What I saw of the Vikings/Bears game looked fairly good. I would have to give the edge to ESPN/ABC on PQ, but DD5.1 was pretty cool. Something went screwy for the second game, resulting in dead air on the DT (except for local commercials) until the 8pm show "Fashion Rocks." ... First weekend jitters I guess ...

PS: Yes WDKY, there is somebody watching ;) :D

I live in Richmond and cannot receive Ch 27 over my antenna anymore. I had a strong signal before it was changed to dtv 13. I still get 36 and 46 fine. I have a Dish 811 receiver and Mits 65 Diamond set. The antenna is high on the chimney but no signal anymore when I place 13 in the menu on the 811. Any help would be appreciated.

Try re-scanning for channels... Since they shifted their PSIP from 27 to 13 your unit may not be able to find it...

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Have we become obsessed? :D

Yes. Though if I were lucid dreaming, there would be much more enjoyable things to dream about. ;)

I used to watch FOX pretty much exclusively, but now the shows I watch from them are The OC, American Idol and Tru Calling. Tru Calling has been delayed (possibly cancelled?), so maybe by the time the new tower and movement of the equipment and setup come together I will be able to enjoy season 2 in FOX digital widescreen (presumably HD?) on my 57" widescreen set, as well. The prospect of it all is exciting.

I been reading this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=434937)
regarding the difficulty with interferance with the low VHF band, so I have begun to ponder how much difficulty I may or may not have with WDKY's new tower being on channel 4 (or will that change?) . The thread mentions 93" from 'ear' to 'ear' on the antenna for channel 3. You had mentioned that same length for channel 4. I was wondering if the length was proporial to frequency/channel #.. so the higher the VHF channel, the shorter the antenna length distance between 'ears' or vice-versa? Or did you mean length measured from apex of the V (each 'ear' at 46.5")? Sounds like we may not want to use a pre-amp for VHF if in Lexington because of noise we may have a problem with. WKYT is high enough in the VHF band that my UHF antenna picks it up with awesome signal strength.

Hey there,

I'm new to this thread. I just got my projector and HD STB last week. I worked feverishly after work today to install my antenna on the roof so that I could get WTVQ in time for the game tonight. WTVQ was the only station I couldn't get on my little powered indoor antenna. My first football game in HD, and I am salivating. This is awesome!

Anyway, during my search for antenna information, I came across this pretty decent website about antennas. Anyway, there is a table of antenna lengths by channel. Ch. 4 requires 83" tip to tip.

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html

Paul.

BenQ PB6200
Samsung SIR-T351
Panasonic SA-HE100

Thanks for that site link pbracken.

I measured the distance from tip to tip on the set top antenna I was planning for VHF and came out at 70". So for optimal reception it looks like I'll need 83". This antenna has 'ears' that are easily replaced, so I'll just buy some longer ones to swap in or so see how well what I have works (though admittingly the end is broken on one of the 'ears').

The KYES OTA reception info site is an excellent resource ..

This affordable antenna setup will work in some circumstances as well, however :

Originally posted by BenCJedi
The thread mentions 93" from 'ear' to 'ear' on the antenna for channel 3. You had mentioned that same length for channel 4.

Er right, I mis-remembered. I looked it up again yesterday and it should be ~83" for channel 4 ... As for pre amps, I do suspect that they would do more harm than good for lo-VHF. There are plenty of interference suspects (WAVE-3, WLWT-5 and there's a station in Columbus,OH on ch4) so I suspect one or more of those are part of the problem.

Can your OTA antenna get UHF and VFH signals. The station might of only started broadcasting digital signal.

I live on Parliament Way, close to tates creek/ man-o-war, and am wanting to get HD. I currently have Dish Network. Should I get 811 reciever and get OTA indoor antenna. Or... Get Insight HDTV( what locals can I get from Insight)? Which would be the best? Does Insight offer just HD Box and HD channels? If I go with the Dish 811 and new TERK indoor UHF/VHS antenna could I recieve all the locals including FOX HD, OTA? I know channel 18 isn't up yet. Looking for the best price and reception. I am going to keep DISH DVR anyway I go. Does Insight have HD DVR and can you just get HD from them?
Sorry for all of the ?'s I just have a lot of options.
Thanks

Originally posted by mothergoose45
I live on Parliament Way, close to tates creek/ man-o-war, and am wanting to get HD. I currently have Dish Network. Should I get 811 reciever and get OTA indoor antenna. Or... Get Insight HDTV( what locals can I get from Insight)? Which would be the best? Does Insight offer just HD Box and HD channels? If I go with the Dish 811 and new TERK indoor UHF/VHS antenna could I recieve all the locals including FOX HD, OTA? I know channel 18 isn't up yet. Looking for the best price and reception. I am going to keep DISH DVR anyway I go. Does Insight have HD DVR and can you just get HD from them?
Sorry for all of the ?'s I just have a lot of options.
Thanks

I don't live too far from you. With an indoor antenna expect to only be able to pick up CBS, ABC and PBS for digital channels. FOX-digital is a crapshoot for all us Lexingtonian's because their digital antenna is south of here and points towards south. They are in the midst of constructing a new tower that will actually serve Lexington (and favor us much more than their current tower). I'm hoping it will all be completed and set in place by the new year. Follow this thread as we have lots of eyes watching and adding info as we hear/see anything. You're right NBC is behind. Second quarter 2005 is the estimation when we'll see them digital. As for indoor antenna choice.... At this point you just need one that does UHF. The Radioshack Bowtie Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=930-0998) is a great, inexpensive antenna. I have used it before with the MCM Electronics pre-amp I posted about earlier in this thread to pick up the 3 digital channels without trouble. You'll find it damn near impossible to pick up the digital FOX station right now, but plan on a VHF dipole antenna of 83" from end to end as a 'stab' at acquiring their signal now. When the new tower is completed we expect it not to be so much a problem anymore to pick them up. I plan on building a VHF antenna cut to 83" specifically for FOX-DT as I can do it for about $10-$15 and it is all I really need. I hope to have some success picking up a signal for this project, but if it doesn't pan out with the current tower, I have the new tower to try it with when that is completed.

Insight, unfortunately could not strike an agreement to carry ABC on digital, so they are limited to CBS and PBS digitally for locals over Insight. I think they have Bravo-HD as well as HBO-HD (if you subscribe to a movie package).

I have Dish Network for most of my TV (with Dishplayer 7100 DVR) as well as a MyHD card in my PC that is setup with a VGA-component transcoder to my TV downstairs for HDTV/DTV. I control it remotely with a laptop to record and play back HDTV and DTV from the 3 local digital stations I had mentioned. For me it was important to be able to record HDTV and save it for later viewing, so this is why I went with the HDTV-PC tuner/capture card instead of a dedicated set top box. (I also work second shift when all the primetime shows are on, so I wanted to timeshift HDTV/DTV). I think Insight's HD-tuner box can record HD, but there is no way to extract it off the device (firewire ports are disabled and no telling if they will ever enable them). The HDTV pc card isn't a bad route to take if you want to save some money on an HDTV tuner that can record and if you don't mind fussing with a PC. (As low as $150 VS $999 for HD-TiVo).

I remember coming into this thread last October with just as many questions, but things have improved. Try reading this thread from the beginning when you have a spare hour or two sometime. This may not be the fastest area to adopt HD/DTV, but improvements do come about.

Thanks BenCJedi. You answered everything I needed to know. Insight without monday night football isn't good for me. I think I will go with the 811 and OTA antenna. I will wait and get the dish 942 when (if ever) it comes out. What kind of time frame do you guys expect new FOX tower coming? This is a nice thread.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
... You'll find it damn near impossible to pick up the digital FOX station right now, but plan on a VHF dipole antenna of 83" from end to end as a 'stab' at acquiring their signal now. When the new tower is completed we expect it not to be so much a problem anymore to pick them up. I plan on building a VHF antenna cut to 83" specifically for FOX-DT as I can do it for about $10-$15 and it is all I really need. I hope to have some success picking up a signal for this project, but if it doesn't pan out with the current tower, I have the new tower to try it with when that is completed...

I too have thought about building an antenna just for FOX and would be interested in how you are building yours.. I have a 4228 with a rotor on my roof and had planned on just attaching the homebuilt antenna to mast above the 4228 and combining the signals. What's in the $10-$15 you are planning to spend? Thanks,

Originally posted by chuckgr
I too have thought about building an antenna just for FOX and would be interested in how you are building yours.. I have a 4228 with a rotor on my roof and had planned on just attaching the homebuilt antenna to mast above the 4228 and combining the signals. What's in the $10-$15 you are planning to spend? Thanks,

It's just a simple dipole. I have an Emerson table top antenna with the circle part in the middle for UHF with the 'ears' for VHF. Since the 'ears' only stretch out to 70" (one side is a little broken), I am just going to replace both 'ears' with a pair of 1026mm ones I found for sale online. I will remove the cheap metal spiral thing in the circle part of the antenna since I won't need the UHF on this antenna. I'm hoping I will just be able to stick it in the attic, but I fear I won't have much success. I have an older shorter satellite dish mount out on my balcony (10' fence post cemeted in a bucket) and may try some U-bolts to attach it to that. It's kinda tough living in an apartment with the limited mounting options.

On second thought that 'cheap' metal spiral thing in that antenna is getting 100% signal on WKYT.

http://www.strangeseeds.com/pictures/misc/HDTV/100P_WKYT-DT.jpg

I think I will just replace the 'ears' with longer ones and hope for the best on WDKY-DT. I have a feeling I will be waiting for the new tower because right now no matter where I point, I get 0% signal for them, even outside on the balcony. Albeit the antenna is crippled with one 'ear' being a little shorter.

Did anyone else notice that WTVQ completely spaced out on "Lost" last night? No HD .... at all ... really folks ... this is season 3 of HD for WTVQ, you'd think they'd have it down pat by now. I was forced to relegate Lost to the UTV and watch NOVA instead. :D

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Did anyone else notice that WTVQ completely spaced out on "Lost" last night? No HD .... at all ... really folks ... this is season 3 of HD for WTVQ, you'd think they'd have it down pat by now. I was forced to relegate Lost to the UTV and watch NOVA instead. :D


Yeah, I noticed it. Sent them an email. No reply though.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Did anyone else notice that WTVQ completely spaced out on "Lost" last night? No HD .... at all ... really folks ... this is season 3 of HD for WTVQ, you'd think they'd have it down pat by now. I was forced to relegate Lost to the UTV and watch NOVA instead. :D I just finished last night's Lost (yay HD PVR!) and specifically logged in here to see what the scoop was on the SD signal. They spaced out last week for the premier as well (HD kicked in a couple of minutes in). Is there somewhere we can write/phone to express displeasure?

I have been rather disappointed in ABC so far (just started watching some of their shows this season) on the HD front. Is this normal for the channel, or are these glitches unusual?

Originally posted by jstew9
Is there somewhere we can write/phone to express displeasure?

294-3636 is the number I have in front of me ... I started to call last night, but opted for my click the remote button policy instead.

They are not alone though, WLKY (Louisville) completely spaced out on the Sunday CBS HD game too. I just can't believe that we're still dealing with this after 3 years. Sheesh ... if KET can stay on top of up to 6 feeds at a time ...

Sign me, "Tired of Excuses"

I work in a production control position at my job. I'd love to flip switches dealing with HDTV all night. Sign me up! :)

Curious.. is the FOX splicer all cool because it automatically does the HD-DTV on/off by itself? For some reason I am imagining a PC (the splicer) that has a que of commercials stored on disk with accompanying time codes. The splicer receives a network signal from FOX HQ to grab the next available commercial within a certain time space allocation from the PC and run it live when a commercial break comes up. I either read that on another thread or dreamed about it functioning that way. Sounds like a winning method for the networks to always have on the HD when needed and also allow local affiliates to fit in commercial advertising within the commercial break without human assistance. So is that how the FOX splicer works? Couldn't other networks do it this way for national HD programming to avoid someone sleeping at the HD controls?

Originally posted by BenCJedi
... Curious.. is the FOX splicer all cool because it automatically does the HD-DTV on/off by itself? ...

Good question ... don't know answer, but however works, it appears to be 100% effective (so far.) Even during the NFL blackout last Sunday, the splicer was still doing the local<->network switches properly, it was just tuned to the wrong network feed.

The splicer's cool factor is the ability to switch different streams together seamlessly without having to decode them back to HDSDI first. This saves a decode/encode process. As I understand it, if they do a HD bug only the pixels around the bug itself are decoded and re-encoded back into MPEG rather than the whole frame. It allows the network to send a pre-compressed stream and the local to insert material without major costs.

Is it possible to get some sort of mixer device I can use with the current UHF antenna and the set top one to strip out the UHF signal on the set top antenna, but allow only the VHF? I'd like to combine them, but before the signal enters the amp that the UHF antenna is currently plugged into. I could probably crack the set top antenna open and disconnect the wires from the middle circle piece (as I believe that is for the UHF) and have VHF-only, but I need some sort of mixer to get it working with the UHF antenna in the attic.

You need a uhf/vhf diplexer. Channel master has a decent one. Look on their website for info and I'm sure it's available from various online sources such as Stark Electronics, Solid Signal, etc. Radio Shack also sells one but I think it's pretty lossy esp. for the uhf frequencies. Most will pass DC on the UHF leg so you can even put it in *after* the amp for uhf which will minimize signal loss.

The CM 7777 will also work for this as mentioned (it has a built in diplexer).

A decent vhf antenna for WDKY would be the CM Stealthtenna which is available at Lowes. You'd need to diplex it as above with your current uhf antenna (it is a very poor uhf antenna). I had no problem getting WYMT-DT (ch. 12) which is about 50 miles from me with it. It may not be quite as good with low vhf but CM rates it for 45 miles. The good thing about Lowes is you can try it no risk.

Originally posted by cpcat
A decent vhf antenna for WDKY would be the CM Stealthtenna which is available at Lowes.

The Stealthtenna has a -4.5dB "gain" on the lo-VHF band, you're better off with tuned rabbit ears.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
The Stealthtenna has a -4.5dB "gain" on the lo-VHF band, you're better off with tuned rabbit ears.

Thanks for that info. I guess I will stick to my basic 'ear' upgrade plan for VHF. I was wondering if I should get longer 'ears' than 1026mm? The antenna 'ears' are retractable, so I could retract them to 83" for WDKY-DT, right? Or would it be better to get as close to 83" fully extended? I was thinking it would be better to get longer, to afford me some 'play' in the length. What do you think?

The Stealthtenna has a -4.5dB "gain" on the lo-VHF band, you're better off with tuned rabbit ears.

It's hard to imagine how an antenna could attenuate the signal unless it's losing that much in the balun. VHF loss would normally be negligible there esp. at ch. 4. Maybe it's +4.5 db which would be a reasonable figure. I was able to get a signal to register (not a lock) from down here at WDKY's current power/tower. The signal strength was a little better with occasional lock and picture but still unwatchable with the Winegard HD8200p (an excellent long range uhf/vhf antenna). Anyway, I'd say it would be worth a try and you could simply return it if it doesn't work.

Originally posted by cpcat
It's hard to imagine how an antenna could attenuate the signal unless it's losing that much in the balun.

That -4.5dB gain figure is in reference to a simple tuned dipole - the problem is the "wingspan" of the stealth is only ~55" which is too short for optimal low-band VHF reception. That having been said, a Stealthtenna mounted in an appropriate outdoor location will probably perform better than a pair of rabbit ears inside.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I was thinking it would be better to get longer, to afford me some 'play' in the length. What do you think?

This is fine, as long as the final "tuned" length is in the neighborhood of 83"

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
This is fine, as long as the final "tuned" length is in the neighborhood of 83"

Also I was wondering about the spacing between the 'ears'. The tabletop antenna I am using has a good 5" between ear to ear in the middle on the mount. Does this space count as part of the required 83" or do I neglect that?

If I understand wavelength correctly, it's a sine wave and due to the frequency of VHF ch4, the minimum length for such an antenna to hit two points of the curve (for maximum reception) from the wave is 83", right? So couldn't you say 'cheat' and use two 12" antennas pieces with a big honking 59" 2x4 piece of wood between the 'ears'?

Originally posted by BenCJedi
So couldn't you say 'cheat' and use two 12" antennas pieces with a big honking 59" 2x4 piece of wood between the 'ears'?

Humm ... survey says ... beyond my limited knowledge of the subject ...

Edit: Now that my brain has been fed sufficient caffine :D

You would still have to "connect" the two ears to your downlead, I would suspect that the "connector" wires would wind up functioning as the "missing" part of the ears.

That -4.5dB gain figure is in reference to a simple tuned dipole

As you probably know, this is correct if the units are dBd.

Not sure if those gain figures specify dBd (referenced to tuned dipole) or dBi (referenced to theoretical isotropic radiator). In general, gain given in dBi is about 2 db higher.

Originally posted by cpcat
As you probably know, this is correct if the units are dBd.

Right. I'm pretty sure that's what CM uses. BTW, I just rechecked the specs on CM site and they claim -4.6dB for VHF-lo, +0.5dB for VHF-hi, and -1.6dB for UHF.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I think Insight's HD-tuner box can record HD, but there is no way to extract it off the device (firewire ports are disabled and no telling if they will ever enable them).

The last time I checked (2 - 3 months ago), one of the two firewire ports were active. I do not have HD through Insight but I took my JVC DVHS VCR over to a friends house and hooked it up to his Insight HD cable box and it worked fine for recording some channels (WKYT-HD, Discovery HD. etc.). Other channels (HBO-HD was one) would record fine for 20 - 30 seconds and then it would zap out for 5 - 10 seconds and then the cycle would start again.

Originally posted by DaveStrorm
The last time I checked (2 - 3 months ago), one of the two firewire ports were active. I do not have HD through Insight but I took my JVC DVHS VCR over to a friends house and hooked it up to his Insight HD cable box and it worked fine for recording some channels (WKYT-HD, Discovery HD. etc.). Other channels (HBO-HD was one) would record fine for 20 - 30 seconds and then it would zap out for 5 - 10 seconds and then the cycle would start again.

Cool.. that's good to know. I had been reading a thread on this at dslreports.com, but hadn't checked it in awhile. I wonder if those guys know it is possible to record some HD off Insight's Motorola box. From what I can tell on Dish, it is expensive for the average person to be able to record HD from premium channels like HBO, Showtime, etc because the receiver requires a $999 modification. Sounds like Insight's box is at least partially successful.

The Motorola 6208 has Fire-wire and DVI outputs that are fully functional. The 1394 port (fire-wire) is 5-C Compliant...meaning..you can record on a D-VHS that is 5-C Compliant.....there is 2 ports, but they are meant to be daisy chained to other devices...such as, hard drives, cam corder's..etc...

Broadcast Digital, Bravo HD, Discovery HD, ESPN HD......unlimited digital copies ..

Pay Channels, HD Net 1 & 2.....1 digital copy...

PPV.....No Digital Copies..........

These rules were made by Hollywood....the name 5-C comes from 5 Companies...Sony...etc, that came up with the technology...


The 1394 fire-wire output is a Video and Audio output......

DVI..is a Video output only..........

I Noticed WDKY-DT 4 CP for the new Clay's Ferry Tower site( File # BMPCDT 20020716AAI ) - was Granted by FCC on 9/29/04 :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=64017

I believe it is the highest power DTV allocation FCC has allowed on Lo-VHF so far.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
I Noticed WDKY-DT 4 CP for the new Clay's Ferry Tower site( File # BMPCDT 20020716AAI ) - was Granted by FCC on 9/29/04 :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=64017

I believe it is the highest power DTV allocation FCC has allowed on Lo-VHF so far.

Fantastic! They are basically in the clearing now to errect the steel, add the antenna and move the DTV equiptment, right? Will the old tower for analog ch56 remain where it is in Danville?

I really hope for great weather this fall and no construction delays so they can get this thing up ASAP with flawless results. It's looking like WDKY is going to beat WLEX in digital broadcasting within Lexington. I don't understand why WLEX needs a construction permit to simply rent space on the WTVQ's tower (or whoever owns it) to get their digital going. Now they are waiting to just go full power (with new equipment) and be done with it?

Generally, a station needs their construction permit from FCC(which involves more than just "construction" - it also specifies the operating "parameters" of the transmitter/antenna/etc, which is why they don't usually purchase the equipment before the CP is granted) before they are allowed to broadcast a signal.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Fantastic! They are basically in the clearing now to errect the steel, add the antenna and move the DTV equiptment, right? Will the old tower for analog ch56 remain where it is in Danville?

I really hope for great weather this fall and no construction delays so they can get this thing up ASAP with flawless results. It's looking like WDKY is going to beat WLEX in digital broadcasting within Lexington. I don't understand why WLEX needs a construction permit to simply rent space on the WTVQ's tower (or whoever owns it) to get their digital going. Now they are waiting to just go full power (with new equipment) and be done with it?

They are planning to move the analog to Clays Ferry as well.

They might be able to move to a UHF slot during the channel selection process starting this fall. Why would they move from 4? Lexington was the largest UHF only market (before WKYT-DT) and most of the antennas that remain are UHF only. U/V combination antennas are more popular as you get away from Central Kentucky..

Originally posted by William Smith
They are planning to move the analog to Clays Ferry as well.

They might be able to move to a UHF slot during the channel selection process starting this fall. Why would they move from 4? Lexington was the largest UHF only market (before WKYT-DT) and most of the antennas that remain are UHF only. U/V combination antennas are more popular as you get away from Central Kentucky..

That'd be even cooler if they are able to select a UHF channel for DT, unless it added a substantial delay in them going live. If they switched to UHF, would the approved broadcasting power have to be increased/approved? If I read the facts right, VHF doesn't require as much power, so that will cost the station less money in electricity to broadcast, whereas UHF requires much more significant power. I bet WDKY will stick it on Lexington residents to buy VHF antennas if they want their digital signal. Unless the station wants to be altruistic.

The channel selection process William reffered to involves the Channels the station will use for DTV AFTER the DTV transistion is over(after analog shut off occurs). WDKY-DT will be on 4 at least until that time ...

I would also think they will put a great deal of consideration into the UHF only analog market(which is quite unusual) issue, and their OTA viewers where channel election is concerned, as most of them are currently watching the Lexington UHF analogs ... Although, I don't quite understand why you wouldn't also have a VHF antenna for reception of WAVE 3(and maybe WLWT 5 depending upon location) as well ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
... Although, I don't quite understand why you wouldn't also have a VHF antenna for reception of WAVE 3(and maybe WLWT 5 depending upon location) as well ...

I do have a VHF antenna, but it consists of rabbit ears, one side being broken on a table top antenna unit. I can't easily put a 10' or whatever multi-element VHF antenna outside because I rent a townhome and the property owner says no (said no to a dish also, but I have one of those on my balcony space which they can't say anything about). Several posts ago I was thinking of finding a way to mount a large antenna on my satellite dish pole, but I might run into the same problem with the dish (lots of trees I can't do anything about in the way.. I litterally have the dish aimed in a hole between several trees). I don't have a whole lot of interest in NBC programming. I also have a waiver for distant networks (NBC) on my dish that has been grandfathered in from long ago. I have on occassion picked up WAVE-DT on ch47 though with the tabletop antenna. Usually around 1am to 5am I have the best luck with around 25-37% signal. I think with a dedicated VHF antenna I could hit that more reliably in the same attic area where the tabletop antenna is at the moment. I'm primarily concerned about WDKY on VHF since I mostly watch FOX (a trend that is decreasing with them adding more reality programming and less drama sitcoms). I will probably wait to decide on any VHF antenna project so I can ascertain if what I have will be good enough when WDKY-DT goes live on the new tower.

Originally posted by William Smith
They might be able to move to a UHF slot during the channel selection process starting this fall. Why would they move from 4?

Folks, If you are at all religious, pray that they get a UHF slot. ... Channel 4 is turning out to be a royal pain ... and signal strength ain't the problem here. It will be interesting to see what happens once more folks can actually pick up the signal.

Ugly, Ugly interference problems here (or the station's encoder is hiccuping badly on a regular basis.) I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, but I may have try the combo antenna outside.

BTW, I was bored and decided to construct my own cut for ch4 dipole out of some leftover 10 AWG wire, a curtain rod for support and a spare balun ... darned if the thing doesn't work every bit as good as the combo antenna I've been using ... Therefore, I suspect many folks may be able to do the same once, the power up occurs.

William,

I've noticed that some momentary audio dropouts are creeping in on KET4 (HD-mode) lately ... oddly they seem to occur most frequently between ~25 and ~35 minutes after the hour.

Also, I've noticed that 38.1 (WKMJ) appears to be going blank sometime after 11pm ... 38.2 still ok (as far as I've checked.)

We had a major hit at the Louisville site and are still cleaning up. (

Bad enough that if you try to connect to the site's UPS via the serial port the thing shuts down..)


I listened to the HD feed most of the afternoon ( while setting the system up to support the special session feeds starting tomorrow afternoon) and didn't catch any problems.. I'll check it more closely tomorrow before 20:00..

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Although, I don't quite understand why you wouldn't also have a VHF antenna for reception of WAVE 3(and maybe WLWT 5 depending upon location) as well ...

Because there is no advantage to watching WAVE's analog over WLEX's analog. In th early days WLEX had both ABC and NBC programming.

WLEX went on the air in 1956, WKYT in 57, WBLG ( now WTVQ) in the late 1960's on Ch 62 no less) and WDKY came on in the 1980's. WAVE spent a fortune building the Trimble County tower in order to put a Grade B signal over Cincy and Lexington. They thought they could force WLEX and WLWT to lose their NBC affiliation.. Wrong... They built it but no one came...

WAVE is now transmitting their digital from a new tower on their old site at Floyds Knob, In.

I grew up in Garrard County and my parents had (and still have) an 8 Bay UHF Bow-tie antenna for television. I made a lot of cash as a kid "fixing" televisions using the Blonder Tongue UHF to VHF converters to "cure" tuner problems..

I noticed a few audio dropouts on KET4 During HD soundstage last Thursday night, as well as earlier in the week during Nova, if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Folks, If you are at all religious, pray that they get a UHF slot. ... Channel 4 is turning out to be a royal pain ...

Actually, I'm going to be bumming if the fairly distant analog stations I currently receive 24/7, 365 days per year on Lo-VHF move to UHF after analog shut down, which at this point it looks as if they will because of the impulse noise/RFI/E-skip/etc. interference issues.

If they do move off lo-VHF, after analog shut off I'm quite certian those stations will NOT be continuously receivable from my location. WAVE 3(95 Miles), and WCMH 4(78 Miles) Columbus will be the ones I miss most, for local Columbus+Louisville programming. While I expect I will not see WDKY-DT all the time here, I expect I will probably see them quite often once they increase power. I'm looking foward to finding out, anyway I should note that besides all the lo-VHF stations within 100 miles of my location , I receive NO other stations 100% of the time on hi-VHF/UHF beyond 39 miles from my location.

Lo-VHF does have its advantages(for viewers too, not just lower utility bills for broadcasters) along with the disadvantages of increased difficulty from impulse noise, RFI from a variety of sources(certian PC/network hardware can be especially problematic), and occasional long distance co-channel interference via Sporadic E propagation, all of which become less of an issue the stronger the desired DTV signal is at any given location.

The biggest advantage of Lo-VHF IMO is, the lower frequency+longer wavelength involved "bends"(refraction through the "air" would be a better way to say it) more easily around hills/terrain(and curvature of the earth to a certian extent) than is the case with signals on higher frequencies, making, in some cases reception in terrain challenged(or "extreme fringe") locations possible where it would not be if higher frequencies are involved. Of course, the flipside is that the interference issues become more problematical in the fringe areas as well, but is it better to get some sort of signal with occasional glitches or no signal at all?

Another advantage directly related to this is, VHF signals are often EASIER to receive with simple antennas(i.e. Rabbit ears - a 1/2 wave dipole), from indoors than is the case with UHF, as the shorter UHF wavelentghs involved are more susceptable to atteunation factors.

However, on the other hand, Impulse noise+other RFI originating from household appliances also often negates some(or much) of this advantage when indoor receiving antennas are used.

Anyhow --- Concerning your reception problems on 4 --- If you're getting a good enough signal from them, looking at what is happening to WAVE 3 may give you an indication of what is going on, if it is impulse noise/RFI causing your problem on 4. If you are getting a lot of "noise" on WAVE that doesn't just look like plain old "snow", you might want to try identifing and elimanating any nearby sources of RFI/Impulse noise. But, I would guess your best bet would probably be to get the antenna outdoors, although the increase in signal strength should help as well.

With DTV, any impulse noise/RFI(well, actually anything except the desired DTV signal itself excepting uncorrectable multipath) is just going to raise the noise floor and therefore lower the SNR, so more signal from the station should help, although don't count on not getting a dropout or two when you get a VERY nearby lightning strike.

I'd guess even such a coat hanger as a CM3010 mounted outdoors would improve the situation for you. I use one of those as my Dayton VHF/FM antenna -- analogs(2,7 - 12 miles), and it usually picks up WCMH 4 Columbus(78 Miles) as well as a good pic from WLWT 5 off the back side. Just for fun, I moved my Channel 2 trap off my Main, hi-gain rotatable antenna and tried trapping out Dayton 2 on the CM3010, and it actually receives WAVE 3 Off the backside as well, although not all that well given "dead band" conditions ...

Originally posted by William Smith
Because there is no advantage to watching WAVE's analog over WLEX's analog.

That is true for NBC programming. The advantage is if you're interested in local programming from WAVE, such as Louisville local News+ "Thunder Over Louisville" and other Derby related coverage, which is why I tune into WAVE. I don't believe I've ever seen that on WLEX. I have Two local NBC affiliates for NBC HD, as well as Dayton and Cincinnati local News, both of which I have interest in as well.

[Updated below]

Originally posted by William Smith

I grew up in Garrard County and my parents had (and still have) an 8 Bay UHF Bow-tie antenna for television. I made a lot of cash as a kid "fixing" televisions using the Blonder Tongue UHF to VHF converters to "cure" tuner problems..


ROFLMAO ... that is extremely humorous ... Funny thing is, I didn't get it until about 5 minutes after reading it ...

The UHF STB's were a just a little before my time, although I have seen a few of those B-T UHF tuners. Our first color set in the early 70's was a used "admiral", which did have a UHF tuner, although it was probably made in the mid 60's. ... After about 2 weeks, the thing actually caught on fire ...

Originally posted by William Smith

WAVE is now transmitting their digital from a new tower on their old site at Floyds Knob, In.


Yes, I've seen it occasionally via tropo. WKPC-DT/WAVE-DT and WBNA-DT 8 seem to put in the best DT Signals out of Louisville here, although part of that is because of co-channel locals. It's probably happened since, but Last time I saw WAVE-DT(120 miles to Floyd's knob from here) was during NBC HD olympics ... It doesn't hurt too much, but a local TBN analog translator off the back side does noise 47 up a tad, however.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I have on occassion picked up WAVE-DT on ch47 though with the tabletop antenna. Usually around 1am to 5am I have the best luck with around 25-37% signal. I think with a dedicated VHF antenna I could hit that more reliably in the same attic area where the tabletop antenna is at the moment.

I just reread this post again and :

#1). When I used the word "you" I meant "anyone" in "WAVE country" that want to receive WAVE 3 analog, specifically viewers who were/are analog only OTA viewers -- not "you" specifically, I should have worded that better, especially as I also don't expect every OTA viewer in Lexington area to necessarily care whether or not they were/are receiving WAVE 3(Although I suspect some do)-- sorry ...

#2) --- WAVE-DT(NBC HD) transmits on UHF 47 as you noted(but it shows up as 3-x on most receivers because of channel remapping info being sent by the station via PSIP), a VHF antenna wouldn't help you there .... It's only WAVE analog which is on VHF 3 ...

If they do move off lo-VHF, after analog shut off I'm quite certian those stations will NOT be continuously receivable from my location. WAVE 3(95 Miles), and WCMH 4(78 Miles)

Nite...

I'm now getting WAVE-DT and WLKY-DT consistantly from 76mi out ... In fact, I'm getting better reception from those two than I am with WDKY (practicaly next door) right now ...

I'm still not ruling out encoder trouble at WDKY since things appear to have deteriorated since the move to 720p, then again, I didn't really care before either ;)

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
I just reread this post again and :

#1). When I used the word "you" I meant "anyone" in "WAVE country" that want to receive WAVE 3 analog, specifically viewers who were/are analog only OTA viewers -- not "you" specifically, I should have worded that better, especially as I also don't expect every OTA viewer in Lexington area to necessarily care whether or not they were/are receiving WAVE 3(Although I suspect some do)-- sorry ...

#2) --- WAVE-DT(NBC HD) transmits on UHF 47 as you noted(but it shows up as 3-x on most receivers because of channel remapping info being sent by the station via PSIP), a VHF antenna wouldn't help you there .... It's only WAVE analog which is on VHF 3 ...


I reread what I wrote and I was thinking two separate thoughts at the same time and mixed them in. I did not mean to imply a VHF dipole was going to help me pick up WAVE ch47 any better (which is obviously UHF). I had WDKY-DT in my head in regard to the VHF discussion and merged my thoughts in the same block of text. lol
Anyhow I turned off that channel remapping thing with my HDTV/DTV tuner card. I'd rather know exactly what channel I am being receptive to and not have some fascade channel remap. I guess that is a convenience thing for people who have always known a channel like WAVE to be ch3 and not ch47. In my mind I like to keep analog separate from digital.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
I'm still not ruling out encoder trouble at WDKY since things appear to have deteriorated since the move to 720p,


As you likely know, there are a lot of issues/factors that might be involved ... Of course, the RF signal itself(and therefore any reception issues) would not have changed just because of 720p ...

Also, another important factor to keep in mind, unless you're SW/SE/S of their tower(basically towards their community of license, Danville - strange how it doesn't seem to be the area they are primarily interested in where their local news is concerned ...) they aren't currently squirting much in other directions .... according to the radiation pattern info on FCC site for their current STA it's actually as little as 4 WATTS ERP in some directions, in which case I would think it would be unlikely to be receivable even from "right next door" with a indoor antenna .... For that matter, I know of no one else receiving them consistantly besides you ... Maybe it's because all, or at least most of the DTV receivers in the area seem to be more located in, or near Lexington+ pretty much out of their coverage area or in areas towards which they send very little RF signal presently ....

In any event, If it's a reception related dropout you should be able to get an indication of what is going on with your receiver's signal quality meter(assuming it has one, and assuming your looking at it when the "dropout" occurs - although keep in mind it's actually not likely to tell you much of anything about actual "signal strength") - If they are running a SD subchannel that might tell you something as well .... BTW, We really do need better RF diagnostic tools on our receivers, IMO -- With analog, it's usually fairly easy to figure out how well our antennas are working just by looking at the screen(not to mention the direct evidence of interference or multipath(ghosts), right now with DTV you almost need a spectrum analyzer to really know what is going on.

I do wonder if they had to put in a new STL to the current transmitter site in order to handle 720p upconverts+Fox HD via the splicer, and how that is working, in a obviously temporary fashion ...

The reason for the UHF STB tuner was to replace the crappy integrated UHF tuner in the mid 60's generation sets.... so the person wouldn't have to replace a $600-$1000 set.


Does this sound familiar yet???

Anyone read the HDTV article on the front page of today's Lexington Herald-Leader?

The main article was pretty much fluff, but there was an interesting sidebar about digital broadcasts in Lexington. They listed WDKY as broadcasting digital by December of this year (I have to assume that means the new tower pointing towards Lexington). The disappointing part however was WLEX planning digital by 'Fall 2005'. I was holding out hope for HD sometime in the 2004-2005 season -- but it seems like that is just a pipe dream now.

Rather sad that a market the size of Lexington still only receives 2 of the big 6 networks (2 1/2 maybe -- not sure if the UPN rebroadcasts on CBS count).

In any event, If it's a reception related dropout you should be able to get an indication of what is going on with your receiver's signal quality meter(assuming it has one, and assuming your looking at it when the "dropout" occurs - although keep in mind it's actually not likely to tell you much of anything about actual "signal strength")

That's exactly the problem, my receiver's meter is rock steady, in fact I have to pad it down a good 10-15dB to get the WDKY signal to fall below 100% ... On any other channel there is usually *some* indication of multipath or other trouble, which is why I suspect something else may be afoot here. Indeed perhaps there's some interference on the microwave link ... The problems do occur on both local and FOX network sources.

Originally posted by jstew9
Rather sad that a market the size of Lexington still only receives 2 of the big 6 networks (2 1/2 maybe -- not sure if the UPN rebroadcasts on CBS count).

Yes UPN is on the .2 subchannel of CBS here. Unfortunately the 5-hours of guaranteed UPN HD programming per week is not available due to this (not enough bandwidth for CBS HD + UPN HD on the same channel stream). I sure would like to be watching Enterprise in HDTV, but I'll believe it when I see it. New season starts this friday. (I wouldn't mind if WKYT showed it on the main subchannel at 3am or something if they had access to the HD source).

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
That's exactly the problem, my receiver's meter is rock steady, in fact I have to pad it down a good 10-15dB to get the WDKY signal to fall below 100% ... On any other channel there is usually *some* indication of multipath or other trouble, which is why I suspect something else may be afoot here. Indeed perhaps there's some interference on the microwave link ... The problems do occur on both local and FOX network sources.

If the meter is "Rock steady" during the dropout and doesn't drop below what is the normal required reading for a signal lock, then I'd say there is a 99.9999%+ chance the RF signal(and the FEC adding during Channel coding) is fine and there would seem to be no way it is related to any sort of reception or RF transmission issue ... even if front-end of receiver was getting way too much signal and was overloading, you'd still get the "bouncy, bouncy" meter syndrome becasue of it ....

Sounds like a paper clip would work for them from your location ;) ... All you need is about 16db or so of S/N for perfect DTV reception, sounds like your WELL above that and getting pretty much a "city grade"+ level signal, and I'm really not so sure even a big impulse noise hit from a nearby lightning strike would be quite enough to momentarily lower the SNR enough for you to get a dropout ...

Could be an issue involving their STL I suppose or some other "bug" that is probably a real bugger for them to chase down, unless it's one of those odd "receiver specific" issues .... It wouldn't seem like it should be a problem involving the local HD encoder if it's happening via the splicer as well, but who knows ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
If the meter is "Rock steady" during the dropout and doesn't drop below what is the normal required reading for a signal lock, then I'd say there is a 99.9999%+ chance the RF signal(and the FEC adding during Channel coding) is fine and there would seem to be no way it is related to any sort of reception or RF transmission issue ...

... Well whatever the problem is, it appears to be beyond my control to fix at this point. I tried the antenna outside and got the same results for WDKY-DT, although I was able to improve all the other stations. Maybe one of them spiffy new 5th gen chips would help ;)

Steel is rising at Clay's Ferry.....

Can see it from I -75

Originally posted by William Smith
Steel is rising at Clay's Ferry.....

Can see it from I -75

I drove down Monday afternoon. Saw that it was starting to go up,
but you still couldn't see it from I-75. How high are they now?

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Yes UPN is on the .2 subchannel of CBS here. Unfortunately the 5-hours of guaranteed UPN HD programming per week is not available due to this (not enough bandwidth for CBS HD + UPN HD on the same channel stream). I sure would like to be watching Enterprise in HDTV, but I'll believe it when I see it. New season starts this friday. (I wouldn't mind if WKYT showed it on the main subchannel at 3am or something if they had access to the HD source).

I emailed WKYT's station manager this morning about UPN and HD. This is
the reply I received from him:

We will be carrying UPN on digital channel 27-2 for the
immediate future. It will be some time before we will have the
capability of transmit a high definition signal for UPN programming, but
we eventually will. I know my response is vague, but it involves
compression capabilities with our bandwidth and we just do not have all
the answers and/or equipment yet. Thanks for your interest. Wayne

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
I know my response is vague, but it involves
compression capabilities with our bandwidth

Cough ... be careful what you ask for, you just might get it ;) :D

Originally posted by William Smith
Steel is rising at Clay's Ferry.....

Can see it from I -75

Guess I won't bother to bug 'em about the current dropouts then (which seem to be getting worse and worse.)

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
I drove down Monday afternoon. Saw that it was starting to go up,
but you still couldn't see it from I-75. How high are they now?

Their under 200 as its not lit yet..

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Cough ... be careful what you ask for, you just might get it ;) :D

I had asked him if they were going to move it over to it's own channel.
This wasn't the answer I was hoping for.

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
I emailed WKYT's station manager this morning about UPN and HD. This is
the reply I received from him:

We will be carrying UPN on digital channel 27-2 for the
immediate future. It will be some time before we will have the
capability of transmit a high definition signal for UPN programming, but
we eventually will. I know my response is vague, but it involves
compression capabilities with our bandwidth and we just do not have all
the answers and/or equipment yet. Thanks for your interest. Wayne

That's surprising they answered your e-mail. I've sent several and never got a response. I'm also surprised by their answer, but by the time I bet they have the capability, Enterprise will already be cancelled since the show doesn't seem to be doing well. Maybe they will have a killer season and come back next fall. Or at least go into syndication.

Originally posted by William Smith
Their under 200 as its not lit yet..

Great to hear construction is under way! Just a matter of time! I hope we won't experience the stutters HDTVChallenged is experiencing.

How hard is it to throw a stinkin' switch already? Poof! Commercials go bye, bye

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
How hard is it to throw a stinkin' switch already? Poof! Commercials go bye, bye



08:17 switched.

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
08:17 switched.

Unacceptable! I think whoever is in charge at WTVQ needs to place some responsibility on whoever throws the switch for HD.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Unacceptable! I think whoever is in charge at WTVQ needs to place some responsibility on whoever throws the switch for HD.

Hay ya know if any Lexington stations want to pay me to monitor their digital transmissions for them, I'd be happy to call (long distance) everytime there's a problem like this ... otherwise I'm just going to change the channel ;) :D

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Hay ya know if any Lexington stations want to pay me to monitor their digital transmissions for them, I'd be happy to call (long distance) everytime there's a problem like this ... otherwise I'm just going to change the channel ;) :D


I tried to call them, but all you get is their directory. I was getting ready to call their news tip line and give them a tip that they weren't showing LOST
in HD when they switched it. :D

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
... I was getting ready to call their news tip line ...

This is the number I call everytime they forget to switch, just tell them to call the control room.. usually switched right away.. shouldn't have to call at all!

p.s. I was busy and missed the first part of the show or I would have called... it's on speed dial ;)

We have a toll free number ...

Our switches are automated...Master Control isn't involved with the HD feed here at this time..

Originally posted by William Smith
We have a toll free number ...

Our switches are automated...Master Control isn't involved with the HD feed here at this time..

And I can only think of one instance where there's been "bad" switch on KET4 this year. Specificaly, it cut off the last 1/2hr of the Phish concert that ran longer than the normal 11pm cutoff.

We try to catch those and adjust the end switch accordingly but they sometimes slip through on us..PBS sometimes makes last minute changes..

Originally posted by William Smith
We try to catch those and adjust the end switch accordingly but they sometimes slip through on us..PBS sometimes makes last minute changes..

No big deal, the incident stands out in my memory only because it was one of those proverbial statistical "rare events." Plus, as I recall, you guys were busy chasing down some other system issues at the time.

... Far different from missing a switch on the same program two weeks in a row.

Originally posted by BenCJedi
I hope we won't experience the stutters HDTVChallenged is experiencing.

Not that it matters for most of you folks, but it looks like my WDKY 'problem' may be due to some wicked localized multipath after all ... specifically off of a water-tower up the road a bit ... Looks like a rare case where lower antenna height in the attic is better than free air on the roof ...

How this bodes for you 'urbanites' remains to be seen ...

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
That's exactly the problem, my receiver's meter is rock steady, in fact I have to pad it down a good 10-15dB to get the WDKY signal to fall below 100% ...

If you're having multipath problems to the point of getting dropouts, I doubt your receiver's signal quality meter would behave as described above ....

Maybe you can get someone from WDKY to come out with a spectrum analyzer ...

----------------------------------------------------------------

All,

If anyone is interested to see it, at link below is the "Comprehensive Technical Document" a consulting engineer for WDKY sent to FCC in Nov 2003 as an exhibit as part of their application for a CP for the digital station for the Clay's Ferry facility. This is a fairly large file(5.51 MB), and requires Acrobat Reader 6.0 (If you get "can't load font" messages/etc, just choose no+hopefully it will still display OK) ...

This will give you a little bit of an idea what sort of things are important(detailes on interference studies, coverage area contours/etc/etc) when a station applies for a Construction permit(or a modification) with FCC ... There is also a nice sketch of what the Clay's ferry tower will look like on pg 11 ... :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=188904

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
If you're having multipath problems to the point of getting dropouts, I doubt your receiver's signal quality meter would behave as described above ....

Well, all I know for sure is that once I undid all my attempted "improvements" in antenna location, the signal cleaned up nicely. It maybe a coincidence, maybe not, but I doubt that WDKY would have been doing any work during primetime when I was messing around with things on my end. In any case, the new tower will probably make this a moot issue.

I have my theories on why the meter may be behaving the way it is, unfortunately there's no real way to test them :D

Anyone with a digi camera going by Clay's Ferry? I've love to see what the WDKY construction looks like. They gonna paint it white and blue or anything cool for UK Wildcat spirit?

Originally posted by BenCJedi
Anyone with a digi camera going by Clay's Ferry? I've love to see what the WDKY construction looks like. They gonna paint it white and blue or anything cool for UK Wildcat spirit?
After today's Alabama game that might be a hard sell.

At least it was a nice cool fall day at the stadium. Basketball season is coming.. keep repeating the mantra.

/ob on topic: When in the name of all that is holy are we going to get to see the Cats in HD -- football or basketball.

Originally posted by jstew9
After today's Alabama game that might be a hard sell.

At least it was a nice cool fall day at the stadium. Basketball season is coming.. keep repeating the mantra.

/ob on topic: When in the name of all that is holy are we going to get to see the Cats in HD -- football or basketball.

I think it happened once for football.. somewhere in the bazillion pages of this thread.

all they (basketball) had to do last year was win one more game and we would have seen them in HD in the NCAA tournament.

later,
parkay

Since most of you still can't get WDKY-DT, here's what you're not missing in FOX-HD today 10/10/04:

Everything :eek:

Seriously ... no video since early AM ... the outage now approaching the 12hr mark. Nice radio service though ;) :D

If you want to catch Fox HD and are close enough to L'ville, WDRB is now broadcasting HD... ALCS last night was awesome...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4495145#post4495145

Chuck

Originally posted by chuckgr
If you want to catch Fox HD and are close enough to L'ville, WDRB is now broadcasting HD... ALCS last night was awesome...

Yep I know. Once they get up to their full authorized power I should be able to get them quite often based on my reception of WAVE-DT and WLKY-DT ... but, at 76mi from the tower farm, I need some serious tropo to WDRB-DT and WFTE-DT right now. :D

BTW: For those keeping score :D

As of 10/13/2004 12:22pm, the WDKY-DT outage continues ... hello! anyone home? :D :D

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged

BTW: For those keeping score :D

As of 10/13/2004 12:22pm, the WDKY-DT outage continues ... hello! anyone home? :D :D

Have you contacted them about the outage? I wonder if they are moving
some of their equipment.

Originally posted by chuckgr
If you want to catch Fox HD and are close enough to L'ville, WDRB is now broadcasting HD... ALCS last night was awesome...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4495145#post4495145

Chuck
Chuck,

Where are you located geographically? I'll have to give this a shot tonight... although I think I'm on the fringe just like HDC...

Thanks!

Originally posted by ragamuffin
Chuck,

Where are you located geographically? I'll have to give this a shot tonight... although I think I'm on the fringe just like HDC...

Thanks!

South of the city of Versailles behind the Woodford Hills CC...

Originally posted by nuts4scuba
Have you contacted them about the outage? I wonder if they are moving some of their equipment.

Could be moving but I find it odd that they would have started doing that on an NFL doubleheader / MLB Division Series / 3-day weekend Sunday - but you never know.

As for contacting them ... thought about it but then decided it just wasn't worth the hassle ;) :D I've pretty much ignored WDKY and FOX for the better part of 3 years now other than from a pure technical curiousity standpoint, and if they want to ignore their own transmitter, who am I to stand in their way. :D :D

PS: Now that their parent company Sinclair is showing their "true stripes," I find myself even less interested ;) :D WDRB will get their power up soon enough ...

Originally posted by chuckgr
South of the city of Versailles behind the Woodford Hills CC...

Thanks Chuck,

You're about 10 miles closer than me to WDRB's tower... What type of antenna/amplifier setup do you have?

Here's a quick PhotoShop'd picture of where the WDRB tower is located, and a just under 80 mile radius circle highlighted showing Lexington to be "just-out-of-reach" for normal non tropo-enhanced signals.

But I'll give it a try anyways this evening... stay tuned...

http://www.nelsonplain.com/wdrb.gif

Took a couple of photos of the WDKY tower going up.



tancity.net/wdky.html