I had seen some pic's some time ago of WDKY's new Clay's ferry plant, and I don't think the hefty diesel generator in the back of the transmitter shack is for a fiber link from the studio to cableco head end ...

In addition to serving OTA viewers in case of power outages --- I don't know who uses what and where in Central KY, but I think it is generally fairly common for cablecos to use OTA to get the signal from stations, and especially headends in outlying areas ....

---------------------------------------------

FWIW, Not wanting to jump into the snake pit, but instead to pass along my results/observations from my receiving location .... AND I must point out, I really don't have any sort of "agenda" here .... We of course already know that ch 2-51 is to be used after analog shut off for DTV, and that most stations at this point are choosing to stay off lo-VHF(when they have a choice -- WDKY hasn't been given that choice yet ) .... I could really personally care less where DTV stations end up on the dial ... all UHF, VHF+UHF -- doesn't really matter to me ....

But -- When I'm getting it(which isn't all the time from well beyond curvature of earth at 118 miles at 179 deg. Azimuth --- , although it is the Lexington station I see most ), I've actually been surprised(but not overly so) at how robust the signal from WDKY-DT has been, even when BOTH the following conditions are occuring :

#1)there is a bit of natural(lightning) or man-made "impulse noise" interference present as evidenced by static crashes/etc. on WAVE 3 analog reception ...

#2) When WDKY-DT is JUST barely at or above threshold, it often is very solid, with no dropouts whatsoever - again, even with a bit of #1 occuring .... Actually ... even when the signal is up just enough to be over threshold(for instance a 33% reading on my Zenith's "signal quality" meter - which happens fairly often, although -- I have seen it as high as about 95% from WDKY-DT when Lexington is booming in), it's usually very solid, and generally quite rare to have dropouts ....

Now ... that being said .. It is certianly true that I don't generally have a significant problem with man-made impulse noise interference issues, or other RFI issues here as seems to be the case for others .... and certianly things are much worse in this regard with use of Indoor antenna at my location as evidenced by experimentation and lo-VHF analog locals ....

Also ... To clarify -- I'm also not saying that electrical storms, or Co-channel interference(such as via E-skip from S or SW, or CCI from WCMH 4 Columbus(78 miles, 70 deg az. - coming in off side of antenna stronger than "usual") doesn't cause dropouts -- or even completely destroy my reception of WDKY-DT(even, in some cases at times when there probably IS enough signal from them otherwise ) .... I've certianly seen that happen as well, and it's not that it seems to necessarily take " a lot" of "extra" CCI or impulse noise to "override" WDKY-DT's signal, either ...

While I allways expected DTV to work at least somewhat "well" on Lo-VHF for those with outdoor antennas and without significant sources of nearby man-made "noise"/interference (and especially for those in fringe areas/Terrain limited areas whom may experience more difficulty with reception on higher frequencies) --- However -- again, I'm just saying I'm surprised that it seems to take a bit more "interference" than I expected(even when WDKY-DT is quite weak) to cause problems ....

I do wonder :

#1). If some that are having problems(and especially those of you using indoor antennas but that are fairly near the transmitter site) have "sustained" increased noise-level on VHF(especially VHF-LO) to begin with due to nearby "man-made" interference sources .... You can of course see this sort of thing directly on screen with analog OTA(low-VHF especially), although, for Central KY viewers WAVE 3 is I think probably the closest lo-VHF analog station you have to "check it" with ....

#2). If some of the issues may perhaps be related to poor VHF performance from some receviers ...

Anyway, either I'm just crazy, or just must be one of those YMMV things, I suppose ....

Anyway, either I'm just crazy, or just must be one of those YMMV things, I suppose ....

Well, all I can say is that for the 2.5 days that WDRB-DT (76mi) was running at full power, it was a much more reliable (FOX-HD) signal than WDKY-DT (30mi). This holds true for WAVE-DT and WLKY-DT. It's true that the distant UHF's fade out at times (<5%), but when they are on, they're on. In contrast (the new) WDKY-DT can't seem to go more than 5 primetime minutes without an audio dropout, picture freeze/pixelation or both.

I've given up trying to improve my results from WDKY-DT, there's only so many times I can repeat the experiments while hoping for different results. :D At this point I'm waiting on WDRB/WFTE to go full power, full time.

Oh well, at least I don't have a bad case of the ABC-jaggies ;)

I've given up trying to improve my results from WDKY-DT, there's only so many times I can repeat the experiments while hoping for different results.

Well, I'm glad I don't have such problems ... I use a outdoor antenna setup as I allways have for analog OTA(upgrading to DTV was as easy for me as plugging in the receiver - No "experiments" were necessary) ... But VHF wise, local WCPO-DT (On VHF 10 - 16KW ERP - 32 miles) is probably the easiest digital station to receive indoors with just rabbit ears from my location. although most of the UHF digital locals(12~39 miles) aren't much more difficult(UHF loop) to receive -- antenna just needs to go a little closer to the window facing the towers .... On the analog side of things ... the VHF locals are easiest to receive decent quality signals from indoors(antenna doesn't even need to be near a window for the most part), although the VHF low's especially suffer from interference issues from nearby appliances/etc ...--- UHF analogs are ghosty+snowy from indoors pretty much no matter what I do, placing UHF bow tie near a 2nd story window facing the towers provides "almost" acceptable UHF reception ....

As for more distant stations .. I am in down in a small, steep very forested valley which Ithink cuts down the "DX" signals quite a bit, especially on higher frequencies - it is open to a certian extent to South and NE however. The terrain issues are such that I do not get reliable reception from any station, except on low VHF(WAVE 3 analog - 95 miles, WCMH 4 analog -78 miles) 24/7 from beyond 70 miles, I'd probably need a 300FT tower for much more than that. Of course, there are currently 14 local DT's(Cincy+Dayton) and 21 local analogs I receive excellent, 100% reliable reception of that are all within 39 miles -- there are no stations between 39+65 miles distant.

WSYX-DT 13 Columbus is the DT I see most often beyond 70 miles, the receiver shows some sort of signal from them pretty much all the time .... WDKY-DT being next, with the Columbus UHF DT's not far behind, and WUPX-DT probably being the next "most often seen" station here out of central KY behind WDKY-DT ... I'd guess that Religous on 7 in beattyville, KY would probably be seen quite often here as well if it weren't for a local blow torch on 7 12 miles away. I did catch the local 7 off air once, and under pretty much winter "dead band" conditions could see the DT signal on 7 from the South(long way to a lock though), and also logged the Evansville, IN analog 7 .... I think WLS 7 Chicago may have been in there(very weakly), but way too weak to say for sure ....

As for Louisville ... when they first came on the air, I seemed to be seeing WBNA-DT 8 most, but for some reason I don't see them above a lock very often these days, and I see WAVE-DT/WHAS-DT most often these days instead ... Those couple of days WDRB-DT was at high power a few weeks ago, it(DT signal on 49 from SW - I assume that was WDRB-DT) looked to be matching WAVE-DT/WHAS-DT's signals, but conditions were such at the time I was looking that wasn't able to get a lock on any of them. Strong locals on 26+38 have thus far prevented me from seeing WLKY-DT or WKMJ-DT, WKPC-DT of course being the "first" DT station I ever saw from Louisville(same thing for WLKE-DT if I recall correclty), being that at the time, they were the only ones .....


Oh well, at least I don't have a bad case of the ABC-jaggies


Yeah ... I've pretty much given up on WCPO where the "jaggies" are concerned .. and just watch ABC HD from WKEF-DT Dayton instead ...

Unfortunately some of us live in rented apartments where we have no such option to mount big honking antennas on the roof (have to use common space such as a balcony). I know alot of my WDKY-DT signal problems are due to RFI from computers in the room below the antenna as well as lots of golden cymbals in my drum set (that can't go anywhere else in the house) in the same room. For me height has made the most impact. I am unable to obtain the height I would need on my balcony (limit is 10') to mount an antenna outside, so my best option was to make my own wireloop and tack it in the best possible place in the attic. This took a great deal of trial and error and the best signal I have seen has been a high 64%. My HD card I use is said to have the best, most-sensitive ATSC tuner (well it was best til the MDP-130 came out). Of course this card is in my PC which also probably hinders reception. One interesting thing I have noticed.. if I turn on my wife's PC across the room then as it is booting the BIOS (which is graphics text mode) ALOT of interferance must be present because the WDKY-DT signal drops to a VERY unstable 13%, which means no signal lock. When Windows starts, the PC has dropped out of text graphics mode and my signal returns to the normal 53% lock with the occassional glitchies/audio dropouts. So basically it would be real easy to mess up your WDKY-DT signal by surrounding your antenna/receiver with multiple PCs and have them all continuosly reboot. I guess PCs could be used in such a way as a denial of service attack for reliable reception of WDKY-DT.

Unfortunately some of us live in rented apartments where we have no such option to mount big honking antennas on the roof (have to use common space such as a balcony).


Not saying you'll be able to convice your landlord to have it installed, but The best option there is probably a MATV(Master Antenna) system. This basically consists of professionally installed "big honking" antennas on the roof of the building, along with a distribution system to send OTA signals to to provide OTA reception to residents. This is what was used before many buildings were wired for cable+residents are forced to use the cableco .... However, some apartments(and many hospitals/Hotels/etc) still use a OTA MATV system, often with sat as well(why have a dish on every balcony when just ONE or a few dishes will do) .... Although, many probably haven't been "upgraded" so they'll work with the local DTV channels as of yet ....(might not make sense in some cases for them to upgrade until after analog shut off, when the stations are on the channels they are going to be "permanently") .....


My HD card I use is said to have the best, most-sensitive ATSC tuner (well it was best til the MDP-130 came out).


most-sensitive doesn't necessarily mean it has good RF shielding, or good performance on VHF, or good RF performance overall ...... It also doesn't mean a receiver which offers good performance on UHF will do the same on VHF ....


So basically it would be real easy to mess up your WDKY-DT signal by surrounding your antenna/receiver with multiple PCs and have them all continuosly reboot. I guess PCs could be used in such a way as a denial of service attack for reliable reception of WDKY-DT.

LOL ... I have a ethernet hub near my coax run in attic that created "sparkles" on lo-VHF until I rerouted cables a bit+added some ferrite beads ....

Amazing what just a "little" RFI can do isn't it? Even when there isn't a transmitting antenna(an intentional one anyway) ....

One of the reasons FCC was created was to manage harmful interference issues .... And, while things could certianly be much, much worse, I think they could have/could probably be doing a bit better job of it ....

If you think what you are seeing concerning harmful RFI from your PC's and how it effects lo-VHF reception of WDKY-DT is bad, just wait and see what happens with BPL on HF/Lo-VHF frequencies if it ends up being widely implemented, or if they ok the sharing of TV broadcast spectrum with unlicensed wireless devices ...

We Ham guys have been running into less than adequetly shielded(or poorly designed equipment/poorly chosen IF's) consumer equipment that causes RFI which is harmful to radio communications on certian frequencies for quite some time ....

Anyway -- These sorts of issues can be difficult to deal with, but sometimes at least something can be done about it .... In your case for instance .... some ideas would be .... Obviously .... Move the antennas away from the PC's(or the Pc's away from the antennas), and/or add some extra RF shielding where possible .... For instance, probably hard to come by these days, but using Thicker gauge metal for your PC's cases might do wonders .... Reroute cables, don't use unsheilded 300 ohm twinlead for antenna feedline(IF you DO use twinlead, put a twist in it every 18" or so) .... Add ferrite beads to Ethernet cables or coax if they run near your coax lead ... etc/etc/etc ...

Once, when power line noise was causing problems(with HF mainly, it wasn't too bad on VHF TV/FM), I was able to call the utility co+ they came out and took care of a nearby arcing problem ... I was actually able to tell them about where the problem was coming from, as I was able to walk up the road with a walkman tuned to AM broadcast band and find the area along the line that was creating the most noise .... YMMV with that sort of thing, but luckily in this case the utilityco did exactly what they were supposed to do ...

Wow.. thanks for your insite and tips Jeff. I am using highly shielded Acoustic Research (very thick) RG6 runs from my two antennas (the wireloop and a basic tabletop one since my HD tuner card has 2 inputs), but didn't think I could get shielded cable for the wireloop itself (I'm using that thin brown twinlead from Radio Shack). I could certainly put some twists in it like you mentioned to see if that helps. The problem with my apartment is wholely in design. There's only one way to put everything basically. The PCs have to go in this room because of where the cable jack is for the broadband. The townhome as a whole is just a bad design. These buildings that make this place have evidently been here a long time. It wasn't mentioned to me when I moved in, but I found a hatch in the closet ceiling in the second bedroom that lead to the hidden area I refer to as my attic. There was a really dusty UHF antenna mounted on a pole up there. My neighbors evidently have them too (I asked them to look), so at one time it was a bonus for the tenants here to get free OTA TV reception. Initially I used it until I found out I could do better with the tabletop antenna and my own wireloop for WDKY-DT. My wife yells at me for climbing up into the hatch and fiddling with the antennas, so I try not to go up there and mess around as much lately.. especially since I have found almost acceptable positioning for both antennas. It is only WDKY-DT that poses the most difficulty for me.

I know my landlord would never go with a common antenna, but it is a nice idea. When I moved in 6 years ago management refused to allow me to mount a sat dish or get one mounted, so I used my rights to erect a 10" water pipe in a 5-gallon bucket of cement on my balcony and ran the cables with flat coax couples through the window. I didn't have to 'damage' the property with screw holes and there was nothing they could do about it because I was using the common space in my lease. :) I think now management is more about asthetics and property value, so an antenna for OTA outside on a pole probably would be worse than the dish.

didn't think I could get shielded cable for the wireloop itself (I'm using that thin brown twinlead from Radio Shack).I could certainly put some twists in it like you mentioned to see if that helps.


Oh ..No ... .... That's an important part of your antenna's "design", probably especially regarding impedance matching/VSWR, you don't want to change that or add "twists"/etc ... ... I meant just for any 300ohm twinlead you might be using as feedline instead of RG-6, not the "parts" of the antenna itself ...

As, I had also had sort of vaguely remembered bits of this discussion, and that's the only reason I mentioned the feedline+Twinlead :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5119375&highlight=dipole#post5119375

By the way ... Since I think you are just using that antenna only for Channel 4 -- You might not notice a performance improvement over a store bought balun(The 300Ohm to 75 ohm conversion "device" you're using) for broadband use ... but, OTOH ... you might .... See the info here for info on how to make a low loss coax balun for a specific frequency(in this case channel 4) :

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/balun.html

Did something happen to WDKY recently?

I use to receive all 4 major networks at 100+ (Dish 921 receiver) -- starting Sunday I noticed that WDKY was (at best) in the 70s range, and corrupting like crazy.

I messed around with my antenna some tonight (small non-powered Terk, the $49.99 piece from Best Buy that has been working perfectly since about Jan up until now) and now I can't get a glimmer of Fox to save my life.

I'm almost wondering if it is a 921 issue (2 firmware updates in a week, and it's been flaky as sin since the 1st one) -- but thought I'd ask others if they'd ran into any issues.

Thanks

I have a 921 and my signal has been fine. Signal is usually maxed out. I get a few breakups and picture freezes. The last update to my 921 corrected my remapping adding WDKY to my guide at 056-01 instead of 004-01.

Once, when power line noise was causing problems(with HF mainly, it wasn't too bad on VHF TV/FM), I was able to call the utility co+ they came out and took care of a nearby arcing problem ... I was actually able to tell them about where the problem was coming from, as I was able to walk up the road with a walkman tuned to AM broadcast band and find the area along the line that was creating the most noise .... YMMV with that sort of thing, but luckily in this case the utilityco did exactly what they were supposed to do ...

I've been suspicious of a service stepdown transformer that's right in my signal path to WDKY/WKLE for some time now ... I suspect I should be getting better reception of WKLE than I actually get.

I'm real close to that KU power block behind Fayette Mall next to the fire station (is that referred to as a service stepdown transformer?). Maybe that contributes to my WDKY-DT reception issues.

I have attached a picture of my antenna on my roof (big and ugly) with a rotor, I live in northern Lexington on a hill and am not near any large towers or power stations. The antenna gets a very consistent 85 + signal from WDKY with my HR10-250 receiver. I previously owned a Hughes HTL-HD receiver and alway received a 90+ signal of WDKY with this setup. With both receivers I have a lot of trouble with WDKY when Thunderstorms are within a 100 miles. I have a rotor and tried pointing the antenna to improve the situation, but with no success. Audio dropout and glitches are quite annoying when I see any reds or yellows within 100 miles on the weather radar. Even in good weather I get occasional audio dropouts. Based on 1 data point (WDKY), HD stations should not use low VHF, WDKY needs to switch to a another frequency, in my opinion.

I'm real close to that KU power block behind Fayette Mall next to the fire station (is that referred to as a service stepdown transformer?). Maybe that contributes to my WDKY-DT reception issues.

Probably even worse :) I'm talking about the round tin-can types that you might see on residential area utility poles.

Probably even worse :) I'm talking about the round tin-can types that you might see on residential area utility poles.

Oh there's ALOT of those in that fenced area over there with all kinds of power lines running into them. I figured they were capacitors or something and that power block area is used to power Fayette Mall.

Audio dropout and glitches are quite annoying when I see any reds or yellows within 100 miles on the weather radar. Even in good weather I get occasional audio dropouts.

hmmmm .... I don't think an audio dropout or other "glitches" without simultanous video dropout, or on-screen data corruption as well would indicate a reception related issue. If it can't get enough SNR for the RF signal to decode the audio stream during noise spikes from static crases, it's not going to be able to decode the video properly either. If it's a reception issue, you'll lose the video as well as the audio, and in most cases I think your "signal meter" is likely to fluctuate as well ...

A simultanous Audio+Video "dropout" CAN indicate a reception issue(such as impulse noise spikes from lightning), but, it could also be other issues(such as STL issues at the station/etc) as well ...

You really need to see an accurate representation(such as a 'proper" SNR meter) of the signal going below the necessary threshold for good reception(~16db SNR) to say for sure ... Although, the following method should work as well : any sort of meter which "drops" below the normal reading required for reception during the lightning strike, or, if you can SEE the lightning flash(out your window) at the same time such a dropout occurs ....

BTW, E-VSB(not currently in use by any station or receiver I know of) however does allow for a more robust "fallback audio" mode, which can allow audio to continue as normal when the signal isn't quite good enough for the less robust "standard" 8VSB FEC used with the Video stream ....


antenna gets a very consistent 85 + signal from WDKY with my HR10-250 receiver. I previously owned a Hughes HTL-HD receiver and alway received a 90+ signal


I'm not familiar with the "signal meters" on those recevier models, and much depends upon what the meter on your receiver is actually representing. With most of the receivers I've seen -- meter reading(which usually can be thought of as a "signal quality" reading) will not show a consistant high reading during those times when a noise "spike" from a nearby lightning strike would cause WDKY-DT signal to go below threshold ... Instead, the reading will drop to a very low reading(below that which is normally required for a signal lock) during those periods ....

I don't know why you can equate storms on radar with "glitches" with WDKY-DT, but I highly doubt lightning strikes 100 miles away are causing OTA reception difficulty from within WDKY's coverage area ....

From what you've described, in your case at least it seems to me more likely causes might be a encoding/decoding issue - perhaps an issue with your specific receiver model+ and their equipment/etc, or problems with WDKY's STL or something else occuring along the line before the transmission plant ... If several folks in different receiving locations can report the exact timing of "audio dropouts" for example(and everyone is getting those at the exact same time), you may be able to get a better idea of what might be going on ... For instance .... If everyone is seeing the exact same thing at the exact same time, that is probably pretty much going to rule out a reception issue ....

True, impulse noise issues are more of a problem on lo-VHF, however, I'd think The WDKY-DT signal should easily be strong enough at your location, especially given your antenna setup(assuming everything is working "properly") to overcome such weak, distant noise spikes.... If it were to happen at all, I'd think it should take a very nearby lightning strike, or a strike in the signal path between you and the station .....

To get an idea of how much signal strength you are actually getting from a station -- add additional attenuation in feedline until the reception just drops below threshold(you can't receive it/get a signal lock). From your location+given your antenna setup, unless you do have a problem with more sustatined RFI/Impulse noise sources, you'll probably need to add at least 20db extra attenuation(probably more, maybe much more) to "lose" reception of WDKY-DT ....

Since you have a rotor, as long as you have antenna connected to a analog tuner, you should also be able to easily aim the antenna towards analogs WAVE 3 Louisville, or WLWT 5 Cincinnati - and get an idea of how bad your impulse noise/interference issues are on lo-VHF .... with analog ... Impulse noise/Electrical interference will show up as static/sparkles on those signals during lightning strikes, or any other man-made nearby RFI/Impulse noise sources will show up, right on the screen ....

:eek: hmmmm .... I don't think an audio dropout or other "glitches" without simultanous video dropout, or on-screen data corruption as well would indicate a reception related issue. .

Actually, the audio and video glitch at the same time, (not just audio) typically the sound would stop for a split second along with video will feeze or become blocky for a moment. This becomes unwatchable during T-storms, it will drive you nuts!! It will also do it when a plane flies over head or my cat thinks about his cat food. :D

I do get some electrical noise on WAVE3 during thunderstorms, it becomes very bad. I checked it tonight and there was a little interference, but not too bad. I noticed my computer would cause some electrical interference in the screen, for example pressing the mouse button would show a little electrical noise. Here's a picture I took of my reception of wave 3 tonight analog. Note, this mouse button press wasn't enough interference to cause a blip on WDKY digital when watching it.

I have actually seen during a severe thunderstorm once that the WAVE3 digital was terrible static due to lighting while their digital station (UHF D-47) looked flawless and beautiful. Anyway, here a picture from my TV screen showing my WAVE 3 analog reception tonight. (when pointing antenna toward louisville)

:eek:

Actually, the audio and video glitch at the same time, (not just audio) typically the sound would stop for a split second along with video will feeze or become blocky for a moment.


Sorry, I can only comment on what you said, not what you may have actually meant :-) ...


It will also do it when a plane flies over head


That's likely dynamic multipath issue, not RFI ....

---------------------------

:
I have actually seen during a severe thunderstorm once that the WAVE3 digital was terrible static

So have I ... Not only just terrible, but completly unusable in fact .... including the audio .... And, yet LO-VHF OTA for analog TV has been quite sucessful since the very first TV stations first came on the air ... It has happened, but It is quite rare however to see this sort of thing happen to such an extent with my Cincy(ch 5) + Dayton(ch 2) local STRONG VHF analog stations -- but sure, it's fairly common to see a bit of static now and then when a storm moves through the signal path .....


Anyway, here a picture from my TV screen showing my WAVE 3 analog reception tonight. (when pointing antenna toward louisville)

Doesn't look bad at all RFI/Impulse noise wise. Doesn't seem like you should be having much of a problem with WDKY-DT because of impulse noise, except perhaps nearby lightning strikes ...

It does, however come to mind that, given your distance from them ... Granted, they've got a nice tall tower, but -- if you are getting more or less that good of a signal from WAVE on a more or less Regular basis -- especially given WDKY-DT's hi-power operation on Lo-VHF ... your WDKY signal must be VERY strong(unless your antenna just happens to be in a "dead spot" for their signal for some odd reason - it's possible, but I doubt it since you are getting consistant high readings) .... So -- I wonder if it is possible it's strong enough to be "teeter-tottering" at the verge of overloading the front end of your receiver(which especially becomes more possible if you are using a preamp), and if this might be an issue you may be dealing with as well? A variable attenuator could help you troubleshoot this a bit if it is ....

AS I think we've already demonstrated, it's difficult to do this sort of thing via posting text on an online forum ... but, Sounds like to me you may be dealing with a combination of multiple factors which are "hindering" reception ... For instance, Mix in Multipath problems, perhaps a little overload issue(other nearby strong signals - not just on TV channel 4 could be contributing to this as well), and your cat thinking a little too hard(That really shouldn't be able to do it just on it's own), and you fall off the digital reception cliff .... Another possible factor could be poor front-end receiver performance on VHF ... I might be remembering it wrong, but, for instance I do seem to recall some side-by-side comparisions of receivers which did not rate the Hughes HTL-HD as performing very well on VHF ....

I'm curious ... Given say with the same general "noise" conditions as you're seeing on WAVE tonight ... This is probably going to be hard to answer ... but, Can you tell if it takes a higher reading off the "meter" to achieve "mostly" solid reception from WDKY-DT than is the case for you with other stations? .... IF so, given that there shouldn't be any co-channel interference issues occuring currently(via E-skip/etc) my best guess, other than issues on WDKY's end would be that it's very possible you are mainly dealing with some sort of "overload" issue ...

It should be the same ... for instance ... It takes a solid 33%(or higher) reading off Zenith HDV420 receiver's meter to acheive perfect reception from WDKY-DT, WKYT-DT, WTVQ-DT, etc/etc/etc ....

Here's a few pics with descriptions here from this monring, under Pretty close to typical "dead band" conditions. Except for Lo-VHF, and a steady signal reading from WSYX-DT 13 Columbus, I'm seeing no stable signals beyond the Cincinnati/Dayton locals.

wdkydtsig.jpg : Steady reading around 10am, but Not quite enough for a lock from WDKY-DT - 118 Miles, Azimuth 179deg. The reading from WSYX-DT 13 columbus looks exactly the same. Reading must be up to about that first color gradient change in the "bar" (33%) in order to decode a station. Seeing a 0(nothing) reading from any other non-local(beyond Cincy/Dayton) digital station.

distantanaloglovhf.jpg : It looks like my "typical" conditions concerning man-made impulse noise/RFI from nearby sources may be just a tad worse than what hdinlexky2 is seeing at his location.

Top left is WAVE 3 - 95 Miles, Azimuth 215deg.
Top right is WTTV 4, Bloomington, IN- 93 Miles, Azimuth 263deg. Co-Channel interference is apparent, likely coming from WCMH 4 off back side of antenna.

Bottom left is WCMH 4, Columbus, OH - 78 Miles, Azimuth 70.
Bottom Right is WRTV 6, Indianapolis, IN - 97 Miles, Azimuth 283.

Antpic1.jpg :

A pic of my relatively small, nice looking<g> antenna setup. Nothing "spectacular" as you can see. VHF antenna(on mast+rotor) in "middle" - It's a Winegard PR-5030 at 30FT AGL(833FT ASL). 30FT of RG6 goes from the balun on PR-5030 to ground block and attic and a Winegard CA-8800 TV/FM band seperator, then on the TV side, on to channel traps tuned to knock down blow torch Dayton analog locals on 2(3 Winegard TRT-LO "Hi-q" traps), and 7(1 B-T MWT3, and 1 Winegard TRT-HI). then to the VHF input on a CM7778 preamp(with FM trap engaged), then to the preamp's power supply, then to a CM0549 VHF/UHF joiner, then onto splitters/RG-6 runs to feed seperate rooms and various devices in different rooms. Max of 85ft RG6, and Maximium of 2, 2 way splitters(and a A/B switch for my "seperate Cincy/Dayton antennas) in line.

"Main" UHF antenna is Antenna'sdirect XG91 at 35FT AGL, 838FT ASL with rotor and mast mount preamp(Winegard AC-4990). A short piece of 300 ohm twinlead is used to connect antenna with 300 ohm input on preamp. After 35FT of RG6(incl ground block), There's a winegard UT-2700 trap in the attic tuned to knock down local 16+22 a bit for the tuner, it's after the power supply before the CM0549 that combines it with the VHF PR-5030.

Other antenna in pic is CM4228, side mounted to tower at about 25' AGL, 828FT ASL. I use it for my Dayton antenna. A short piece of twinlead is used is connect antenna to a B-T Galaxy series "suburban II" Mast mount preamp. Approx. 25FT of RG6(incl a ground block) goes to attic+power supply, then to splitters which distrubute it to 4 different rooms/different devices/etc. 2 rooms only get the feed from the Dayton antenna, a Radio Shack remote control A/B switch in 2 rooms is used to switch between the Dayton antenna, and the "main" antenna(usually used for Cincinnati with no need for "rotoring" for the Cincy stations) w/rotor.

Sorry for the multiple long posts, hope I haven't run anyone off this thread ...

For those interested, follows is a bit more info/thoughts on lo-VHF DTV as well as info on certian aspects of how anything "wireless"(that includes OTA TV/DTV/HD) works which can be important when it comes to reliable OTA reception ....

I just reread these excellent articles at links below concerning Low-VHF reception ...

In addition to the other factors we've discussed, I wonder if some of the reception difficulties some are having with WDKY-DT may involve High VSWR ?(See : The VSWR Factor" section in article at 2nd link)

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/f_DTV_on_LowBandVHF-03.10.04.shtml

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/Low_BandVHF.shtml

You may be wondering -- What is VSWR? See here :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSWR

http://www.atis.org/tg2k/_voltage_standing_wave_ratio.html

Why is VSWR important for receiving TV antennas? See here :

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/antennas.shtml

While The below article specifically addresss "The effects of VSWR on Transmitted Power" -- However, I think it offers the best, most understandable(for me anyway) explanation I could find via a little googling of what VSWR is and why it is important ... :

http://www.antennex.com/preview/vswr.htm

Unfortunately, I don't think Many TV manufacturers publish expected VSWR on any given TV channel the antenna is designed(or not designed) for - In this case we are interested in ch 4(66-72MHZ).

There are VSWR+gain figures given for commonly used antennas such as the "Silver sensor" in the "antenna measurements" section of following article :

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/Lung_features.shtml

VSWR is not only effected by the antenna design itself, but also feedline+the receiver's front end. The latter which SHOULDN'T be an issue for our purposes, as a 75ohm load should be a "perfect" match for our receivers - but you just never know.

Also of importance ... objects near the antenna can, and do often affect VSWR. That's because Everything(or anyone) "near" the antenna is "somewhat" connected to it, and therefore becomes part of the antenna. For the how far away to have "stuff"(anything but air, basically) from the antenna for best results see section 1 "Stuff Near antennas" at this link : http://www.kyes.com/antenna/stacking.html

I expect that some, if not many of the antenna setups actually in use probably have relatively high VSWR, especially the indoor ones. Unfortuently, there is no legal or practical way I know of for viewers to measure their actual VSWR for Channel 4, or any other TV channel ...

-------------------------------------------------------------

Back to impulse noise for a second ...

There is some interesting info on a paper and field tests concerning Impulse noise+DTV reception in the section "Impulse Noise and Low VHF" near the end of article here :

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/Feature_Lung.shtml

I do wonder if anyone(WDKY, Sinclair, FCC, MSTV, NAB/etc/etc) is doing any field testing concerning WDKY-DT reception. It seems to me that given it's reasonably high power operation, and geographic location+that it's coverage area serves urban, suburban and a large rural area, with varying terrain to some extent that it would make it an excellent choice for extensive field testing concerning lo-VHF DTV and it's suitability ...

Not that I'm sure it matters all that much at this point, though. Since 16 of the 42 stations that elected a lo-VHF channel in first round of elections didn't have any other choice for first round except Lo-VHF, and assuming many(or most if not all) of those will end up elsewhere after analog shut off ... It looks like there will be VERY few(if any) stations with a low-VHF allocation by the time the third+final round is completed ... Also, it's been a while since I looked at it, but the way I remember reading the rules in the 2nd DTV review Stations electing lo-VHF in first round, will have the oppurtunity to make another choice(such as available hi-VHF or UHF allocations) in the third round, or I think they can choose to allow FCC to "choose" a different allocation for them in 3rd round as well out of those channels that FCC finds to be available after their interference analysis/etc ....

I could be wrong, but, even with all the LP's/translators going digital at some point -- given the improved efficency of DTV(in many cases stations can co-exist on 1st adjacent channels/etc - not the case with analog) I think there will, more or less enough room on 7-51 that noone will be "stuck" on Lo-VHF if they don't want to be there ... And, if there are very few stations that don't want to be there, It seems reasonable to think it possible that FCC may decide at some point to remove 2-6 from the core channels ...

--------------------------------------------------------------

Instead of DTV on Low-VHF - here's an idea ... What about analog shut off ASAP, except with a extended "lifeline" analog OTA service on Low VHF?

We don't know about lo-VHF and LP DTV stations/Translators yet(Current rules restrict Digital LP's to 300 WATTS ERP on VHF ch 2-13, so in many cases don't know why they'd want to be there) ...

But, Personally -- Since it seems at this point very few stations are interested in using Lo-VHF for DTV ... I think a good use for it would be "indefinite" analog NTSC OTA service -- until all(or most all) of the analog TV's using OTA(such as my portable handheld TV) are gone ...

I think it would be ideal, as all the other analogs could shut down ASAP, and each market could have one or two low-VHF analogs to provide some level of analog service ... In many markets, existing lo-VHF analog stations could be utilized, perhaps with the cost to maintain+operate the facility shared among "participating" broadcasters in the market, all of which could have blocks of airtime for their station's programming on the market's one or two analog station(s) ....

Think how quickly most of the analogs could be shut off, and how much existing UHF broadcasters could save on their utility bills, while at the same time serving the "public interest" of analog OTA viewers who haven't bought new sets with internal ATSC receivers, or external DTV receivers ... It also would seem to solve the problem of gov't subsidized receivers for OTA viewers(and who gets them - the poor, or everyone/etc) as there wouldn't NEED to be any ...

It seems to me like an excellent "all around" solution to the analog shut off "issue". And besides, it would keep my handheld TV(which I *do* and have used during power outages for severe weather info) working ;)

Crazy Idea ... Maybe, but it's not that much different than a analysis for analog shut off options included in section III B. of the feb 2005 FCC Media bureau report concerning "over the air broadcast television viewers" available at links below :

PDF format:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-257073A1.pdf

MS Word Doc format :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-257073A1.doc

Below is the text of paragraph 32+33 from the above-mentioned report, describing 1 of 3 possible alternatives to analog shut off that differ from the current law -- which is a 2006 shut off, OR(but not until, basically) when 85% of viewers in a market have DTV reception capability :

:quote

(a) The “Lifeline” Approach

32. At the switch-over date, a small number of analog television stations would be licensed to operate in each market.(*- see footnote #89) The pool from which these licensees are selected could be limited to existing broadcasters (which would simply be continuing their analog service) or opened to new applicants. This would ensure that analog OTA viewers continue to have access to at least some television programming without digital-to-analog converters. Eventually, when the number of analog OTA viewers is sufficiently small, all analog service would be terminated. This approach provides analog OTA households with an additional choice. Those for whom television service holds little value could do nothing and rely on the truncated analog service, while those who value television service more highly could obtain a digital-to-analog converter to receive the full complement of broadcast programming. In addition, a truncated service may be a preferable solution to converters for non-primary television sets in OTA households (or for those additional sets in MVPD households that are not connected to the MVPD service), especially for small or portable sets for which a converter box may be impractical.

33. Some of the potential issues with a “lifeline” fade-to-black approach are: (a) finding spectrum on which these continuing analog stations could operate; (b) recognizing that not all pre-transition analog programming would be available; (c) establishing an economically viable analog service; and (d) accepting the opportunity costs of not being able to use the spectrum for other uses (e.g., secondary services like low-power television).

* - footnote#89 - Conceivably, only one such station would be licensed.

:end quote

At this point, given current lo-VHF channel elections, since it seems that only a handful(if any) of stations across the U.S. are going to "end up" with lo-VHF, the "problem" issue mentioned in paragraph 33 (a) wouldn't seem to be an issue if lo-VHF were used for "extended" analog service ...

As for their point (b), -- Seems to me that would provide an "incentive" for folks to upgrade to DTV -- but also -- again, if the station were "co-operated" by the existing broadcasters in a market, seems like all stations particpating in operation of the lifeline analog station(s) could run their most "significantly viewed" programming on it, including local news/emergency weather info/etc ....

As for their "problem" point C -- I'm not sure it needs to be ... Look at DTV ... It's certianly not "econmically viable" for broadcasters as of yet ... And, seems to me Running 1 or 2 VHF-lo analog stations per market has to be cheaper than every station in a market running 2(sometimes 2 hi-power UHF stations) .... And, maybe the Gov't can subsidize "particpating" broadcasters for the analog service to a certian extent ... wouldn't that be cheaper than buying everyone DTV receivers?

As for D - I'm not sure Lo-VHF spectrum is in "great demand" by anyone, although I've seen some folks wanting to expand the FM band into channel 6 ... and certianly, the "lifeline" analog stations can be shut off someday as well ....

Granted, it might involve an "unprecedented" level of cooperation among competing broadcasters -- So, Would the above be more "problematical" than I am thinking, or does it just make too much sense to actually happen? From what I saw in that last U.S. Senate Commerce committee hearing on the DTV transistion the latter at least certianly seems to be a very good possibility ....

Follows is the final paragraph in the FCC Media Bureau report on OTA viewers .... :

quote:

IV. CONCLUSION
46. The Media Bureau Staff hopes that this Report will contribute to the ongoing discussion on these issues and looks forward to working with Congress, the Commission and all interested parties to bring the digital television transition to a speedy and successful conclusion.

:end quote

That's all well and good, but as a consumer, WDKY-DT is unacceptable in it's current situation. Most people won't know about the different wave lengths, interference, obstacles, etc. especially when just about everyone can pick up the other 3 major stations with no difficulty. I'm using a cheap little UHF loop and get WLEX, WTVQ, WKYT, and WKLE all above 92% on my HR10-250's signal meter. That antenna also has rabbit ears, the max I was able to get from WDKY, 13%. To a layperson, that would indicate WDKY is unable to serve this market. The only way I was able to finally get WDKY-DT was to install a low band VHF antenna on the roof. Now I get 85% or so, but it cost me an additional $90 bucks for the antenna and combiner, and I occasionally see the glitches that have been reported here earlier. You add that cost to the price of an installer for the layperson, and you will find many will just do without seeing FOX in HD.

Completely off topic, anyone know a WB in HD that can be got in Lexington?

VHF-Lo has major issues the DTV.

WDKY's antenna patterns show that most of the signal is away from Lexington.. ( I don't know why they did it that way).

That's all well and good, but as a consumer, WDKY-DT is unacceptable in it's current situation ...... especially when just about everyone can pick up the other 3 major stations with no difficulty .... To a layperson, that would indicate WDKY is unable to serve this market.


That may very well be true overall and I'm not disputing the possibility that it is the case. As William said, and as the lo-VHF DTV articles at links I provided I think generally indicate, Lo-VHF DTV has problems ....

However, that being said -- a layperson should also understand that just because a particular station presents a difficult receiving sitation for THEM(or those who come to AVSforum who have problems and come here and complain about it), it doesn't mean this is the case for everyone ... For instance, I know a fellow in Lexington who has said he receives WDKY-DT just fine with a monopole "rod" antenna sticking in a flower pot. For me, If I were to pretend there were no Cincinnati/Dayton stations, my BEST possibility for any sort of TV reception would be via Lo-VHF, including WDKY-DT ...

Now, as a Layperson as well(I'm not a "Pro" either), I am not saying that just because lo-VHF seems to work so well for DTV from what I have seen in my particular circumstances that that is the case overall, or for everyone .... I'm only telling you what I am seeing here, and hopefully providing some info to folks who are having reception problems in hopes it might help them out a little ....

I would also remind you that WDKY-DT TRIED to get their digital channel allocation changed to a UHF channel prior to building the channel 4 station. They asked for 22 I believe. 22 was WLEX-DT original digital channel allocation until WLEX/WUPX made a case to FCC that there would be adjacent channel issues in portions of their service areas, and WLEX-DT's allocation was changed to 39. WDKY-DT's petition to change to channel 22 didn't fly with FCC, it's been a while since I looked at that stuff, but I think it was probably because of more or less the same potential interference issues WLEX/WUPX brought up. ....

Building TV stations and changing channels is not a "trival" thing for them. I doubt they will get a chance to "move" to another channel until after analog shut off. Who knows, but My guess is(just a guess), they will likely end up with a UHF or hi-VHF allocation by the time the 3rd round of channel election is complete, which of course is what they'll be using after analog shut off. In the mean time, folks who want to receive them OTA are just going to have to do what they have to do ....

Most people won't know about the different wave lengths, interference, obstacles, etc.


I don't think most people need to. The general rule most people need to know for getting good reception (no matter what channels are involved - VHF/UHF/etc) is usually to mount directional antenna(in this case for relatively strong signal areas -- VHF/UHF combo) outdoors, aimed towards the towers and mounted as far away from obstacles as is reasonable and possible. Now, that's not saying getting reception from indoors isn't possible, it often is in strong signal areas - but perhaps not so much on low-VHF because of the man-made noise issues. But, outdoor, directional antennas is what analog OTA was "designed" for, and this is what digital OTA was "designed" for as well.


Completely off topic, anyone know a WB in HD that can be got in Lexington?

Closest WB stations I believe would be WSTR-DT 33 Cincinnati, and WBKI-DT 19, Campbellsville, KY.

I don't know what WBKI-DT is doing HD wise, but a 5.4KW ERP(low power) STA shows up for them on FCC site.

WSTR-DT has all WB HD/DD 5.1, but would probably be too far from Lexington for the most part. WSTR-DT is also currently running low power STA at 17.1KW ERP. Once they do go full power -- judging from a report I'd heard from Georgetown concerning Cincinnati station reception they'll probably make it to Georgetown area, assuming a "decent" outdoor hi-gain, directional receive antenna is used.



WDKY's antenna patterns show that most of the signal is away from Lexington.. ( I don't know why they did it that way).



I knew that was the case for their Old STA from the "old" site ... But I'm not seeing that for the licensed facility at Clay's ferry shown on FCC site - Also, I'm in the same direction as Lexington from their tower, and from what I can tell here the signal is certianly getting out well in this direction ... Am I missing something ?

WDKY FCC TV Query info :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=WDKY&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=0&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

Sorry about the poor formatting of the relative field strengh info below, but This is what it says for the antenna at the current, licensed facilities :

Directional Antenna ID No.: 64813 Pattern Rotation: 0.00
Antenna Make: DIE Antenna Model: THB-C3-5M/15H-1-R

Relative Field values for directional antenna Relative Field polar plot
Relative field values do not include any pattern rotation that may be indicated above.

0° 0.840 60° 0.836 120° 0.836 180° 0.840 240° 0.415 300° 0.415 10° 0.924 70° 0.728 130° 0.919 190° 0.725 250° 0.455 310° 0.374 20° 0.982 80° 0.795 140° 0.979 200° 0.685 260° 0.484 320° 0.516 30° 1.000 90° 0.863 150° 1.000 210° 0.647 270° 0.495 330° 0.647 40° 0.979 100° 0.795 160° 0.982 220° 0.516 280° 0.485 340° 0.685 50° 0.919 110° 0.728 170° 0.924 230° 0.374 290° 0.455 350° 0.725

Additional azimuths:
71° 0.727 109° 0.727 232° 0.366 308° 0.366

I knew that was the case for their Old STA from the "old" site ... But I'm not seeing that for the licensed facility at Clay's ferry shown on FCC site - Also, I'm in the same direction as Lexington from their tower, and from what I can tell here the signal is certianly getting out well in this direction ... Am I missing something ?

William may have been looking at the new analog pattern which shoots almost nothing toward Lexington ... and you can sure tell it by looking at DirecTV's LiL for WDKY. They are trying to get approval to rotate the analog antenna 90deg to fix the problem.

I don't know what WBKI-DT is doing HD wise, but a 5.4KW ERP(low power) STA shows up for them on FCC site.

Last I heard there were no immediate plans to pass HD. I still haven't been able to get a decodeable signal from the 5.4kW WBKI DT here in Danville, but I have on occasion pulled in WSTR-DT with strong tropo conditions.

The only way I was able to finally get WDKY-DT was to install a low band VHF antenna on the roof. Now I get 85% or so, but it cost me an additional $90 bucks for the antenna and combiner, and I occasionally see the glitches that have been reported here earlier.

There is evidence that some of these glitches may be originating somewhere in STL (studio-to-transmitter link) chain.

William may have been looking at the new analog pattern which shoots almost nothing toward Lexington ...


Thinking/Looking at it a little more(instead of eating my Lunch LOL) ... I see most of Lexington isn't Directly North of their tower as I am ... Instead it's NW/WNW ....

So, I think William is right, although to a certian extent even within Lexington how much you are getting looks to depends upon exactly where the receiving location is ...

Not that it is anywhere near as bad as it WAS the case from the old site/STA, and that's what came to mind when I first read William's post ... But ... The lowest field strengths for the DT's current pattern are showing as either towards SW/W or NW .....

So, except perhaps for those portions of Lexington "metro" area which are directly North, .. it would be accurate to say Most, or much of their signal still doesn't go towards Lexington, which according to my map, most of which would be Generally NW or WNW ..

Their signal seems optimized towards the SE (150 degrees), and NE(30 degrees), where there is a 1.000 relative field strength shown on FCC site for their antenna pattern, which means thost directions should be getting 26.5KW ERP sent their way ....

Between directly West+North(where Lexington is) -- The pattern shows relative field strengths between .366 and .840 ... .366 at 308deg. and 232 deg -- being about the biggest null anywhere in their pattern... 308 degree heading being about right towards Center of Lexington, come to think of it ....

(.366x.366) x 26,500 watts = 3,549 WATTS ERP being sent towards(more or less) center of Lexington ... Certianly better than the anywhere from 4 Watts ERP~about 200Watts ERP or so sent in Lexington's direction with the old STA, but .....

Depends on where the receiving location is in Lexington Metro .... just by looking at the yellow shaded portions of their coverage map, here : http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1063722.html ).... Could be as little as 3.5 KW ERP sent your way, or if you're directly North, would be as much as .840 relative field strength or so or ~18KW ERP, which is a bit more than 6db or so difference ... Which I suppose could be signficant in some cases, such as when impulse noise is an issue...... :

Nevertheless, the situation towards Danville(their COL of license which they must cover with a "good" signal) looks to be about the same as the situation towards Lexington ...

-----------

BTW, I defintely noticed their analog did much better up here(I WAS seeing them to some extent pretty much all the time-just popping in and out from under the snow during winter "dead band" conditions) from the old site than has been the case since they moved ...

Your assuming that Lexington is due North.. its not.. Lexington is at 320 degrees TN.


There is a 20dB null toward Lexington that hits on Main St.

William, Yeah sorry.

But, I'm pretty sure that's pretty much what I just said in my last post(the one right before yours posted at 1:17pm EDT) ?

I'm a little confused on the 20db null part though ...

At 320 deg from WDKY-DT, it shows a .516 relative field value for WDKY-DT 4's licensed facilities at Clay's Ferry ..... 1.000 relative field value of course would be 26.5 KW ERP.

So, (.516x.516) x 26,500 watts = 7,055 Watts ... How is that 20db null? I thought every +(-)2x increase(decrease) in power was only about +(-)3db ....

Thanks ...

I don't know if it is the stormy weather outside or what, but I saw my WDKY-DT signal hit an all-time high of 75% for me (from inside my apartment). I'm hitting 64-69% every other second and the picture/sound isn't breaking up. I also was messing around in the attic. I built a new dipole tacked to a 77" beam (3" of antenna protrudes on each side) and epoxied the balun to a protruding plastic piece to make a very sturdy antenna. Unfortunately all that antenna building on this new effort was fruitless as I get the same signal on the old antenna right now. It's just interesting for the overall high signal I am hitting right now. Can it rain everyday? Rain seems to trap more signal in Lexington where it needs to be. :)

http://s94980196.onlinehome.us/8602/HDTV/Wdky-dt_69A.jpg

I've noticed over the years rain, or moist air(especially so after a long dry spell) often cuts down powerline/electrical noise on lo-VHF here ... I've especially noticed it in the winter when people have their Christmas lights up ...

Has anyone else had problems with WLEX-HD in the last few days? I haven't been able to get it to come in.

Has anyone else had problems with WLEX-HD in the last few days? I haven't been able to get it to come in.

Actually it has been the oppossite for me.. I am getting 97-100% signal (usually 76-87%).

Has anyone else had problems with WLEX-HD in the last few days? I haven't been able to get it to come in.

I have been at 100% too...

Did something happen to WDKY recently?

I use to receive all 4 major networks at 100+ (Dish 921 receiver) -- starting Sunday I noticed that WDKY was (at best) in the 70s range, and corrupting like crazy.

I messed around with my antenna some tonight (small non-powered Terk, the $49.99 piece from Best Buy that has been working perfectly since about Jan up until now) and now I can't get a glimmer of Fox to save my life.

I'm almost wondering if it is a 921 issue (2 firmware updates in a week, and it's been flaky as sin since the 1st one) -- but thought I'd ask others if they'd ran into any issues.

Thanks
Thought I would give an update on what my issue was (not that it would necessarily help anyone else).

Not only did WDKY go to pot, but I ended up loosing WKYT as well -- which prior to this issues I could pretty much pick up with an unbent paper clip as an antenna.

A reboot of the 921 did nothing, so I decided I would try sending pure signals to the 921 (I was up until this point diplexing one of the Sat feeds with the antenna signal to reduce the number of cable runs to the 921 -- successfully I might add). Once I split the cables (unique runs the whole way, no diplexing) everything went back to the normal 110-125 signal strength across the board, even the annoying to pinpoint WDKY.

No clue why the diplex just stopped working, but thankfully I had one single open run to the wall with the 921 available, so I will just leave it as is an hope it continues the great connection.

So, there ya go, the signals were fine, was all my setup (I love how thousands of dollars of equipment works fine for 9months then simply stops for no reason -- you'd think we'd be past the bleeding edge of HD by the 2nd half of '05).

Getting 90% but not picture on sub-1, sub-2 weather does come in.

Getting 90% but not picture on sub-1, sub-2 weather does come in.

87% here (my usual) and a picture. Perhaps the issue is fixed since you last posted.

Getting 90% but not picture on sub-1, sub-2 weather does come in.

There's no HD feed from ABC from 8/23-8/26. I'm assuming WTVQ didn't get the memo, or forgot ...

See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=570007)

87% here (my usual) and a picture. Perhaps the issue is fixed since you last posted.


Do you know if WLEX had made any changes in their signal recently? I was able to get the HD channels up until some time in the last week. I have a Samsung HD receiver.

Do you know if WLEX had made any changes in their signal recently? I was able to get the HD channels up until some time in the last week. I have a Samsung HD receiver.

I'm getting 100% in Versailles...

Do you know if WLEX had made any changes in their signal recently? I was able to get the HD channels up until some time in the last week. I have a Samsung HD receiver.

In cases like this:

First check to see if you are actually getting an 8-VSB signal using your receiver's signal strength meter.

If you are getting a signal but still have no picture, do a 'local-channel scan.' This may (or may not) help resolve any PSIP conflicts that may be preventing your receiver from decoding the transport stream ... Some of the Samsung models are reported to be very picky wrt PSIP isssues ...

If you are *not* getting a usable 8-VSB signal .... someting else is going on. FWIW, WLEX and WTVQ have been pegging my signal strength meters since they both went "full" power.

In cases like this:

First check to see if you are actually getting an 8-VSB signal using your receiver's signal strength meter.

If you are getting a signal but still have no picture, do a 'local-channel scan.' This may (or may not) help resolve any PSIP conflicts that may be preventing your receiver from decoding the transport stream ... Some of the Samsung models are reported to be very picky wrt PSIP isssues ...

If you are *not* getting a usable 8-VSB signal .... someting else is going on. FWIW, WLEX and WTVQ have been pegging my signal strength meters since they both went "full" power.

Thanks for your response. I did a scan and was able to get the channels again.

Your HD tuner definitely does make a difference in reception. I bought a Fusion 5 Lite HD tuner card for my other PC a coupld weeks ago. This card has a 5th generation tuner compared to my other HD card with a 4th generation one. The 5th generation chip has much better multipath rejection. Now I see what you are were saying when you reported higher signals than I could desperately achieve. Well the Fusion 5 Lite is netting me as high as 80% signal (21.3db) compared to my usual 53% on WDKY-DT off my MyHD MDP-120 card. The signal is also far less glitchy with the new card. I knew there had to be something to it with many on this thread reporting higher signal strengths. Not all HD tuners are created equal! I did read the Fusion 5 Lite tuner is comparable to the same in the Dish 811 receiver. I think I shall have a better TV watching season than originally expected.

Is channel 27 ever gonna get with the program and pass DD5.1?

Is channel 27 ever gonna get with the program and pass DD5.1?

And channel 18.. and where is a HD WB, and why is 27 bogarting any chance of a good CBS HD feed and a UPN HD feed. The latter is simple, double advertising sales.

> I have attached a picture of my antenna on my roof (big and ugly)

Aesthetics aside, most of that bulk does not help for channel 4,
which wants amazingly long elements. A (VHF) preamp on the mast
might help, but a dedicated low-band antenna works or me...

I have attached a picture of my antenna on my roof (big and ugly) with a rotor, I live in northern Lexington on a hill and am not near any large towers or power stations. The antenna gets a very consistent 85 + signal from WDKY with my HR10-250 receiver. I previously owned a Hughes HTL-HD receiver and alway received a 90+ signal of WDKY with this setup. With both receivers I have a lot of trouble with WDKY when Thunderstorms are within a 100 miles. I have a rotor and tried pointing the antenna to improve the situation, but with no success. Audio dropout and glitches are quite annoying when I see any reds or yellows within 100 miles on the weather radar. Even in good weather I get occasional audio dropouts. Based on 1 data point (WDKY), HD stations should not use low VHF, WDKY needs to switch to a another frequency, in my opinion.

That's not that big and not that ugly either. :)

Here's a really big antenna (to me it's beautiful). The top antenna is a cut channel 4 with 7.5dbd gain. I've since taken it down and am no longer using it. PM me if you're interested. If it won't give you a stable signal, I doubt anything will.

> I have attached a picture of my antenna on my roof (big and ugly)

Aesthetics aside, most of that bulk does not help for channel 4,
which wants amazingly long elements. A (VHF) preamp on the mast
might help, but a dedicated low-band antenna works or me...

Yep.. I found the cheapest antenna (one I made myself with that flat brown twinlead from Radio Shack) coupled with an amp has been the most powerful ally for me in pulling in WDKY-DT

That's not that big and not that ugly either. :)

Is that the Wade/Jerrold yagi? I've been tempted to try one of those, but I'm not sure FOX programming is worth any further effort/cash on my part ;) :D

Still waiting on WDRB to crank it up ... :)

Is that the Wade/Jerrold yagi? :)


Yep. There's a 10 element version too (10dbd gain) but I just couldn't go that big.

> I found the cheapest antenna (one I made myself with that flat brown twinlead
> from Radio Shack) coupled with an amp has been the most powerful ally for me
> in pulling in WDKY-DT

I tried a twinlead folded dipole first, but did not get enough signal:
an Antennacraft Y5-2-6 works fine, even with a very suboptimal
75 ohm coupler. I still need to acquire an HLSJ...

HLSJ: http://www.picomacom.com/specs/pico/C/C24.pdf

It ends up being around 10 bucks with shipping if I recall.

> I found the cheapest antenna (one I made myself with that flat brown twinlead
> from Radio Shack) coupled with an amp has been the most powerful ally for me
> in pulling in WDKY-DT

I tried a twinlead folded dipole first, but did not get enough signal:
an Antennacraft Y5-2-6 works fine, even with a very suboptimal
75 ohm coupler. I still need to acquire an HLSJ...

Admittingly I needed to find the magic spot (which was very difficult in my attic) and the amp was a necessity. Without this I am lucky to get a 10% signal:
http://mcm.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/mcm/en_US/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp;jsessionid=IWSQB0XJDU0AGCXFEOFSFGAK2URYSIV1?S KU=33-290&N=0
With it (depending on which HD tuner card I am using) I get 59-80% signal.

Anyone else having trouble with WTVQ tonight? Trying to watch the beautiful Eva in HD and someone at 36 forgot to flip the switch once again. :mad:

Yep.. I noticed WTVQ-DT was pillarboxed and standard def too tonight. I was not amused. Guess I will just have to download the transport streams myself if I want to see DH in HD for the season premier.

I got my antenna finally mounted last night, and I get ABC,NBC,CBS at about 90% through my H-10, my FOX is about 70% and I pick up some other Misc channels. I'm in Danville, however my PBS is only about 30%. I was wondering if I put a signal booster on if it would help?

I have read in some cases they don't. Any recommendations on a brand?

Thanks

It (a pre-amp) might help some ... WKLE is a bit squirrly for me, and prone to needing a "hot-spot." While it may be a little late, you might try moving the antenna around a bit to look for a hot spot. Speaking of antennas, what are you using, and how/where is it mounted?

Sorry yea a pre-amp, I don't know what model or brand it is. I found it in my basement, I do know its a uhf/vhf about 4ft tall with about a 2 1/2 ft width span. I mounted it on the back of my house facing N toward lexington.

So basically your opinion is that it won't help much with the PBS?

Thanks,

So basically your opinion is that it won't help much with the PBS?

Well, I can't help much from the info you've provided - your description of the antenna doesn't match up with any VHF/UHF antennas that I know of...

But, I can say that WKLE (PBS) should not be too difficult to pull in. At times, I've used an indoor UHF antenna (RadioShack Double Bow Tie) with pretty good results. Again, I'd try moving the antenna around first before going the pre-amp route.

I got my antenna finally mounted last night, and I get ABC,NBC,CBS at about 90% through my H-10, my FOX is about 70% and I pick up some other Misc channels. I'm in Danville, however my PBS is only about 30%. I was wondering if I put a signal booster on if it would help?

I have read in some cases they don't. Any recommendations on a brand?

Thanks


Maybe you can describe that antenna a little more and we can figure out what it is or better yet post a pic.

In general, a preamp will help overcome line loss and may help if your cable run from the antenna to your set is say 50 ft. or more. Strong signals can overload them, though, and if you have multipath (ghosting on analogs) it could even be made worse by a preamp.

You could also consider a line amp which will be more immune to overload like the
CM 3042 available at Lowe's. It's only around 30 dollars if I recall and Lowe's has a liberal return policy. You'd place it somewhere along your downlead at the first practical indoor, dry point where you also have access to AC power.

If you want to try a preamp a likely choice would be the CM 3041 also available at Lowe's. It has lesser gain and more immunity to overload than a high gain model such as the CM 7777. The preamp itself goes on the antenna and the power supply goes in the house really at any convenient point.

I don't work for or own stock in Lowe's but I do go there alot. :)

Aim more North East.. From Danville WKLE and WDKY are east..

... I meant to say that, but forgot. My antennas usually wind up pointing at around 50 degrees magnetic which splits the difference between WLKE/WDKY and WLEX/WTVQ/WKYT.

what hd channels can I get using insight and the internal hd tuner on my tv? I currently get 27-1 and 56-1 but was wondering if wlex has an agreement with insight as well and if channel 36 ever made a deal with them? thanks.

what hd channels can I get using insight and the internal hd tuner on my tv? I currently get 27-1 and 56-1 but was wondering if wlex has an agreement with insight as well and if channel 36 ever made a deal with them? thanks.

Until recently, I was getting 27-1,56-1,46-[1-4] on Insight analog cable in Lex using the builtin QAM tuner. About 2-3 weeks ago, all my HD channels (except 56-1) mysteriously disappeared. I called Insight to see what was up and they suggested a service call.

The first thing the tech told me is "we don't support that" ie HD channels w/o STB.

Hmmm, well, it was working.

Then he conflabbed with the mother office and they said they had made a change on their end that might have caused this.

But, ultimately (surprise!) they said everything was ok on their end and somehow it was on "my" end. Not surprisingly, I don't have another HD-capable set to test with.

Seems a bit fishy, but it sounds like you're at least still getting 27-1? Analog cable?

Anyway, I asked the tech about the carriage issues you mention - the answer is not yet, but maybe soon. I think he said one of the holdouts (WLEX?) had recently signed on and therefore they thought the other holdout would have to cave in soon.

As for me, I setup an indoor antenna and now get all three networks (in better PQ, btw), but the cable access was more convenient. I really dislike STB's (eg digital cable) and unfortunately my Panasonic doesn't have CableCard.

HLSJ: http://www.picomacom.com/specs/pico/C/C24.pdf

It ends up being around 10 bucks with shipping if I recall.

DLS has HLSJs @ $1.49
http://dlsus.chainreactionweb.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=396

... so bought a few, along with a Winegard AP8700 low noise preamp
http://dlsus.chainreactionweb.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=653

I was reluctant to try another distribution amp; wanted amplification
near antennas to minimize standing wave problems, powered
near the HR 10-250 to minimize ground loops

DLS HLSJs (labelled ACE 324) may not be as good as Pico's;
got strange results from experiments last week,
but discovered this morning that a (Radio Shack) balun
to the CM 4228 was intermittently defective.

If I had not read here that 39 and 40 were on the same tower,
I would not have guessed from antenna aiming exercises.
Although 39 and 40 both give strong signals around 140 magnetic,
the 4228 faces around 105 degrees for useful signals on 13 and 42,
where 40 is stronger towards 70 degrees
and 39 is stronger around 100 degrees.

OK, I am new to the whole HD world, and have just experienced my first night of HD programming. First, WOW. Second, I have a few questions. I live in Andover, near I-75, and currently use a Terk Indoor HD antenna. I can pick up all the local's I care to pick up, except FOX. I can't even get a faint signal. I was wondering if there was a place in Lex to do a little "shopping" of outdoor antennae/amplifiers... and if so, what anyone thought would be the best set-up. Any help is appreciated...

OK, I am new to the whole HD world, and have just experienced my first night of HD programming. First, WOW. Second, I have a few questions. I live in Andover, near I-75, and currently use a Terk Indoor HD antenna. I can pick up all the local's I care to pick up, except FOX. I can't even get a faint signal. I was wondering if there was a place in Lex to do a little "shopping" of outdoor antennae/amplifiers... and if so, what anyone thought would be the best set-up. Any help is appreciated...

FOX's (as well as KET) tower is located at Clays Ferry on the Madison County side. 18, 27 & 36 are all right off Man O War close to Hamburg.

I would suggest Radio Electronics on Skain Avenue. That is where I bought my Channelmaster.

http://radioelectronics.com/

I was wondering if there was a place in Lex to do a little "shopping" of outdoor antennae/amplifiers... and if so, what anyone thought would be the best set-up. Any help is appreciated...

Lowes (@Nicholasville Rd. and Man-O-War) usually has a selection of ChannelMaster UHF/VHF combo antennae (3016s, 3018s, and 3020s) in stock. A pre-amp would probably be over-kill and do more harm than good.

The amp is the difference between FOX and NO-FOX in HD for me, so I wouldn't be so quick to discount their use (for WDKY-DT anyway). I live real close to Fayette Mall and don't have a chance in hell to pick up WDKY-DT without an amp. I tried it from every conceivable position in my apartment to no avail. Here's the one I use with my twinloop antenna crafted out of Radio Shack twinlead wire (the brown stuff)
http://mcm.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/mcm/en_US/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp;jsessionid=P4142SEPM1UYMCXFEOFSFGAK2URYSIV1?S KU=33-290&N=0
This is exactly the same one you'll see colored black in Lowes with the RCA label on the blister pack (I think it is RCA, or maybe a Panasonic.. anyhow you'll recognize it).

Without amp: 11% max signal for WDKY-DT
With amp: 69% max signal for WDKY-DT on one tuner, 81% on another from same lead

The amp is the difference between FOX and NO-FOX in HD for me, so I wouldn't be so quick to discount their use (for WDKY-DT anyway). I live real close to Fayette Mall and don't have a chance in hell to pick up WDKY-DT without an amp.

I live in the Tates Creek/MoW area. For WDKY-DT, I get a signal of 68%-74% with a Zentih Silver Sensor indoor antenna with no amp from the second story with minimal obstructions. For the other major networks, I get 97% ss. I think KET is high 80's.

The ZSS antenna is $20 on Amazon.com; I think it is available other places like Sears. Although it looks like something from Roncomatic, amazingly, many people appear to have relatively good luck with it. YMMV, of course, but I would suggest to the orig poster that he might consider trying a different (indoor) antenna before giving up and going to outside. I've heard that the Terk's are not that good, in general - it's not much cost to risk and might keep the house looking nicer. If ZSS didn't work for me I was going to try the $40 DB2 from AntennasDirect or some small ChannelMaster.

Does anyone know of Insight has the new DVRs yet that allow recording of 2 shows at once? Thanks.

Just an FYI for everybody.

Insight will be launching ABC-HD tomorrow on Digital Cable Channel #770.

Now, they have all of them except NBC - Shouldn't be too much longer!

Does anyone know of Insight has the new DVRs yet that allow recording of 2 shows at once? Thanks.


Yes - it is the Motorola DCT 6412

This may have been answered earlier but here it goes. Why does CBS not push 5.1 through? I'm on insight HD and ABC is already pushing 5.1 and they just came on.

Firstly, don't confuse the time when ABC became available on Insight, to when they came on the air. ;) They ran for quite a while with faux 5.1 (only left and right front channels active)

Secondly, WKYT either a) does not have all the equipment to pass 5.1 from the network or b) they haven't figured out how to reliably (auto)switch between 5.1 and 2.0. Many CBS affiliates seem to be having the latter problem. Call, e-mail or write the station. :)

fox 56 has been super solid for me until this afternoon, can't get a signal stronger than 74, and usually get lower 90's. am trying to watch the nlcs, and the pic won't even come in, have tried spinning my rotor with no luck, anyone else having trouble today ( sat ) ?

fox 56 has been super solid for me until this afternoon, can't get a signal stronger than 74, and usually get lower 90's. am trying to watch the nlcs, and the pic won't even come in, have tried spinning my rotor with no luck, anyone else having trouble today ( sat ) ?


The opposite for me.. a HIGH 64% from the MyHD tuner and 77% from The Fusion 5 HD cards in my PCs. Not all tuners are created equal. Mine like the WDKY-DT signal today.

fox 56 has been super solid for me until this afternoon, can't get a signal stronger than 74, and usually get lower 90's. am trying to watch the nlcs, and the pic won't even come in, have tried spinning my rotor with no luck, anyone else having trouble today ( sat ) ?

No problem here in Versailles, locked in at about ~90% yesterday

I live almost directly across from central baptist, have a 6 foot antenna from radio shack, on a rotor on a 10 foot mast off the chimmney of my house, and have great luck in sucking in all local channels with no problem, untill yesterday, and couldn't get the pic to come in at all. Just curious is all, thanks for responding, sleddogn

I'm having a problem keeping a stable lock on WTVQ-DT lately. I think my problem is multipath, but don't have any other options to place one antenna in the attic in a way that is conducive to the other antenna keeping a good signal for all the other locals. It seems my two antennas are affecting each other.

Did anyone watch the USC ND game on WLEX-HD Saturday? Was is just me or was the picture quality extremely poor?

jImbEam

I managed to get WTVQ-DT at 100% signal (WOW). I moved my tabletop antenna in the attic by jamming it into a crack upside down from the ceiling. This affected my other antenna (twinlead wireloop). The wireloop is the most senstive for receiving WDKY-DT. The move of the tabletop antenna affected my WDKY-DT by about a 5% reduction in signal, but it does seem pretty stable. The problem is that all my locals may be tuning just fine today, but tomorrow or some other random day all heck could be unleashed and the current setup wouldn't be as gratifying. I need to get out of renting and into my own house so I can put some big honking antennas on the roof. Harnessing good signal in an apartment attic (I'm lucky to have that) is a real challenge.

Did anyone watch the USC ND game on WLEX-HD Saturday? Was is just me or was the picture quality extremely poor?

jImbEam

I watched the game from beginning to end and it was an extremely poor excuse for HD. Anytime that something moved it pixilated horribly. I'm not sure if this is related to WLEX and their multicasting or if it was a problem on NBC's end. Almost all programming I have seen on WLEX-D has had a ton of motion artifacts. I wish they would stop starving the signal and give us HD the way it is meant to be seen.

I noticed old episodes of Smallville starting to appear on WKYT-DT.2 (UPN). Has anyone heard if there are any plans for a WB to go HD in the Lexington area? What happened to WBLU? Granted the only show I watch on WB is Smallville, but I would like to see it in HD.

I watched the game from beginning to end and it was an extremely poor excuse for HD. Anytime that something moved it pixilated horribly. I'm not sure if this is related to WLEX and their multicasting or if it was a problem on NBC's end. Almost all programming I have seen on WLEX-D has had a ton of motion artifacts. I wish they would stop starving the signal and give us HD the way it is meant to be seen.

Maybe they save like 12 cents by starving the bitrate. 12 cents is 12 cents. :)

I noticed old episodes of Smallville starting to appear on WKYT-DT.2 (UPN). Has anyone heard if there are any plans for a WB to go HD in the Lexington area? What happened to WBLU? Granted the only show I watch on WB is Smallville, but I would like to see it in HD.

FYI Smallville is available in HD on HDNet. I believe it's syndicated.

Anytime that something moved it pixilated horribly. I'm not sure if this is related to WLEX and their multicasting or if it was a problem on NBC's end.

Probably a bit of both. OTOH, contrary to my earlier assessments, I've noticed that WAVE-HD doesn't barf quite as bad WLEX-HD.

I noticed old episodes of Smallville starting to appear on WKYT-DT.2 (UPN). Has anyone heard if there are any plans for a WB to go HD in the Lexington area? What happened to WBLU? Granted the only show I watch on WB is Smallville, but I would like to see it in HD.

I think HDNet has exclusive rights to the HD repeats of "Smallville."

WBLU is still cranking out infomercials, shopping channels and old syndications for anyone with in a 5 mile radius of their antenna. They were bumped from Insight to make room for WKYT.2

WBKI-DT is still low-power and HD-less.

WSTR-DT (Cincy) is the closest HD capable WB affiliate.

Did anyone watch the USC ND game on WLEX-HD Saturday? Was is just me or was the picture quality extremely poor?

jImbEam

Not only was it poor, WLEX had the HD stretched until the start of the 2nd quarter. So that was half the problem. Even after they fixed that, it was no where near as good as other HD sporting events on Saturday. All that being said, at least the Trojans pulled it out.

I don't know why WLEX can't just leave the picture at its normal ratio and let the viewers decide when they want to stretch the picture.

The one good thing about WLEX being in 1080i is that my TV doesn't have to do additional conversions to display. All the other Lexington locals are 720P, so my tuner has to convert to 1080i and there has to be some quality degradation with that. As far as I know ABC, CBS and NBC pass their feed to the affiliates as 1920X1080i and then ours spit it through a converter box to 720P to also squeeze in bitrate-sucking subchannels. FOX is 720P from the network source to WDKY-DT. This may explain why FOX looks cleaner to me (especially American Idol) since my tuner is only converting network source to 1080i. With the other guys it is 1080i from the network to 720P at our local affiliates and then back to 1080i through my tuner so my TV can display it. I wish I had a 720P capable TV. The stretched 1080i on WLEX is kinda weird. I wonder who decided that format.

I hate to say it, but I almost changed over and watched that game in SD. It was just that bad. Luckily I was watching two games with TwinView so the reduced size of the screen help mask some of the ulgyness. :)

I see there is another ND game on Saturday. What are the chances it will look better?

jImbEam

Noticed something interesting today regarding the Notre Dame - BYU game...

Once again the game on LEX18 looked horrible in HD. Anytime someone moved, tons of macroblocks appeared on the screen. It really was a sorry presentation.

After the game ended I took a look at some of the highlights on SportsCenter. Wow did it look great! Movement looked solid and everything looked sharp. There were no motion artifacts at all. This obviously tells us that NBC is sending a great picture...but LEX isn't passing it along at the same quality level.

It's a real shame that our local affiliate can't maintain the original broadcast quality of a program broadcast in HD. I wonder if people at LEX18 actually think their ND broadcasts look good? I realize that it probably won't change but hopefully they will consider axing all multicasting and upping the bitrate to the main HD channel. I think this is the only way we are going to see HD sports on NBC in their true glory. Hockey is going to look horrible this spring if they don't give us more bandwidth :(.

I don't usually watch Leno, but just tuned in and it doesn't look HD to me. I wish LEX would ditch the subchannel and use the black bars when they go to standard def. It's just hard to tell sometimes because of the blockiness. The Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade is said to be broadcast in HD this year. I hope LEX will show it that way. It's a tradition for me to watch it whether it's entertaining or not. I just want to see NYC live in HD.

I live in Danville the side towards Lexington. I have a Dish 942 and I get all HDTV OTA channels with about 99 signal. I have a wingard antenna on the roof (the type that is straight and looks like a flat stick) it has a built in amp also. My problem is I get FOX-HD with a signal around 65-75 and it cuts in and out. Wonder what I can do to fix it? Would it help to get on the roof and move it around? Wonder if the amp will turn up and down? HELP I WANT TO WATCH FOOTBALL IN HD!! Some times it works fine other times it wont work at all.

I live in Danville the side towards Lexington. I have a Dish 942 and I get all HDTV OTA channels with about 99 signal. I have a wingard antenna on the roof (the type that is straight and looks like a flat stick) it has a built in amp also. My problem is I get FOX-HD with a signal around 65-75 and it cuts in and out. Wonder what I can do to fix it? Would it help to get on the roof and move it around? Wonder if the amp will turn up and down? HELP I WANT TO WATCH FOOTBALL IN HD!! Some times it works fine other times it wont work at all.

WDKY is low VHF and your antenna might not pick it up well. I use a Channel Master 3016 in my attic and don't have any problems getting any of the channels. I bought it at Lowe's for 35 bucks. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=159752-000000693-3016&lpage=none

WDKY is low VHF and your antenna might not pick it up well. I use a Channel Master 3016 in my attic and don't have any problems getting any of the channels. I bought it at Lowe's for 35 bucks. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=159752-000000693-3016&lpage=none

I tried that antenna in my attic, but it was worse than my simple twinlead wireloop I crafted from RadioShack parts myself. I think I am in a zone of intense multipath (lots of metal and electronics around), so I get alot of breakups.. especially with WDKY-DT.

FWIW, my snowy 80 degree off axis reception of WAVE-3 analog shows significant evidence of man-made interference - source unknown. OTOH, there's not much hope of decent WDKY-DT reception around here without a proper VHF-lo antenna, which the Winegard "batwing" isn't.

Holy Mother of all Tropo!!!

While checking for a heartbeat and power-up from WDRB-DT this AM, I got KLJB-DT (Davenport, IA) instead. Expect weird reception "problems" today. :)

Holy Mother of all Tropo!!!

While checking for a heartbeat and power-up from WDRB-DT this AM, I got KLIB-DT (Davenport, IA) instead. Expect weird reception "problems" today. :)

Ah so this explains the weird reception problems the last few days I have had with WDKY-DT? I had to go moving old computer cases and metal stuff around in my attic yesterday to get a good lock on WDKY-DT. I wish I could see in the RF spectrum to see how the signal is propagating upstairs. I imagine it is like a giant triple twisted pretzel.

Gtown E* sub trying to help out a friend in Lex who will be purchasing a HD set soon.

He currently has a digital box (non HD, I assume) and does utilize on demand fairly often. A few questions:

* Do they still pass through local digital channels via an analog (coax) hookup that his tv's internal ATSC tuner can pickup?
* He is an HBO sub - do you pay extra to receive HBOHD through insight?
* Do they have a regular NON DVR box that can tune in HD? (Similar to an E* 811 box?) Insight said the only boxes capable of both local HD and cable HD (ESPNHD, etc) was a DVR.
* if he is a digital sub with on demand and HBO (he has the tier that has ESPNU and ESPN CLASSIC), how much more would he pay for local HD channels (or are they already included).

Thanks in advance.

Ah so this explains the weird reception problems the last few days I have had with WDKY-DT?

Could be ... I had to dial back the gain to minimum on my RS pre-amp last night to keep it from overloading on WKYT-DT and WDKY-DT.

I've been lurking on here for quite some time but I finally had to ask a few questions. Sorry if they have already been answered but I tried searching and could never find out any conclusive information.

1st ... Is there anyway for me in Somerset, KY to get local HDTV (abc, cbs, nbc, fox, and the like) channels. Accoding to antennaweb all I can get is local PBS and thats it.

I have called local Charter Cable but they say they have no plans on getting HDTV. Rumor has it they have been up for sale going on a year now and they don't want to incur the costs to start broadcasting.

I have called DirectTV but they said I would have to get an off air antenna. From reading this post it seems the only way this will work is if I get an antenna the size of my car and put it up 100ft. (Not an option.) I can get by with a smaller antenna or maybe a medium size in my attic.

I have Dish Network, but those people are driving me nuts. I have called 3 times to ask about getting espn2HD, but 2 of them don't know there is a difference in espn and espn2 and the other one acted like he couldn't speak english. As for local channels, they say I have to upgrade my receiver from the Echostar 6000 and get an antenna to get those channels. I can get CBS HD out of NY if I am willing to install another dish pointed to another satellite. Their estimate of $$ for this option is $325. The extra dish was cheap, but they say I need a special switch (didn't give model number) in order to get this to work. I am sorta willing to go this option if just to watch Sunday NFL in HD if the cost wasn't so outragous.

Sorry for the long post, but if you have any thoughts or suggestions on a way to make myself happy, I would greatly appreciate it! I have been bitten by the HD bug and I just can't help myself. I am tempted to switch to Direct TV to get Espn2HD for the UK basketball games for the upcoming season. It seems dish network has no plans to help me with my vice.

Thanks again!

John

I've been lurking on here for quite some time but I finally had to ask a few questions. Sorry if they have already been answered but I tried searching and could never find out any conclusive information.

1st ... Is there anyway for me in Somerset, KY to get local HDTV (abc, cbs, nbc, fox, and the like) channels. Accoding to antennaweb all I can get is local PBS and thats it.

I have called local Charter Cable but they say they have no plans on getting HDTV. Rumor has it they have been up for sale going on a year now and they don't want to incur the costs to start broadcasting.

I have called DirectTV but they said I would have to get an off air antenna. From reading this post it seems the only way this will work is if I get an antenna the size of my car and put it up 100ft. (Not an option.) I can get by with a smaller antenna or maybe a medium size in my attic.

I have Dish Network, but those people are driving me nuts. I have called 3 times to ask about getting espn2HD, but 2 of them don't know there is a difference in espn and espn2 and the other one acted like he couldn't speak english. As for local channels, they say I have to upgrade my receiver from the Echostar 6000 and get an antenna to get those channels. I can get CBS HD out of NY if I am willing to install another dish pointed to another satellite. Their estimate of $$ for this option is $325. The extra dish was cheap, but they say I need a special switch (didn't give model number) in order to get this to work. I am sorta willing to go this option if just to watch Sunday NFL in HD if the cost wasn't so outragous.

Sorry for the long post, but if you have any thoughts or suggestions on a way to make myself happy, I would greatly appreciate it! I have been bitten by the HD bug and I just can't help myself. I am tempted to switch to Direct TV to get Espn2HD for the UK basketball games for the upcoming season. It seems dish network has no plans to help me with my vice.

Thanks again!

John


OTA would be difficult at best from Somerset. It doesn't sound as if you'd be willing to go to the lengths necessary. You need to check with Directv as you should be eligible for HD DNS east coast feeds. You have to call and get them to connect you to the DNS (distant network service) eligibility department to find out. Be polite but persistent and don't let the first CSR you talk to convince you it's not available. If so, you'll get HD feeds for CBS,ABC,FOX,NBC from New York at no extra charge assuming you already have SD locals and it only requires one dish. I just recently had mine and my parents' turned on here in Corbin. I would expect you'd be eligible as well.

Yuck! WKYT put up a big ugly translucent logo perpetually on the lower right of my screen. They even run it over commercials. If I were an advertiser, I'd get pissed or something.

I just really hate logos and info bars on the screen. I know what channel I tuned to. My onscreen guide also tells me that.

EDIT:Also throughout CSI! So much for my perfect digital caps.. now they are branded for good! :(

Thanks for the info! I called DirectTV but they said I had to open an account before they can tell me if I can or cannot get NY HD locals. I thought it was kinda dumb, but I am thinking about doing so. They said if I do open an account and I can't get those fees my option to cancel would be to pay $150 cancellation.

Like I said, I think I am going to do so, but I need to mull it over and see.

cpcat ... do you happen to know or remember who you talked to in the DNS department? PM me if you can remember, if not, no big deal you have already helped a great deal.

Thanks,

Yuck! WKYT put up a big ugly translucent logo perpetually on the lower right of my screen. They even run it over commercials. If I were an advertiser, I'd get pissed or something.

Yep that's a blast from the past before they had some degree of automation over the local ad inserts and station ID's. On the bright side, at least it's not the original solid white one. You should see the monstrosity that WDRB uses.

Thanks for the info! I called DirectTV but they said I had to open an account before they can tell me if I can or cannot get NY HD locals. I thought it was kinda dumb, but I am thinking about doing so. They said if I do open an account and I can't get those fees my option to cancel would be to pay $150 cancellation.

Like I said, I think I am going to do so, but I need to mull it over and see.

cpcat ... do you happen to know or remember who you talked to in the DNS department? PM me if you can remember, if not, no big deal you have already helped a great deal.

Thanks,

I'd try to call again and again until you finally get someone to connect you to the DNS department. You'll likely get a different CSR each time you call. Just explain that HD DNS is important and you'd like to know if you are eligible before you sign up. If you are eligible for CBS DNS through E*, you're likely eligible for HD DNS through D* as well.

When I called for myself, it was easy and the CSR automatically transferred me to DNS eligibility where I spoke with Michelle. The second time I called for my parents, it was more difficult and initially the CSR said they (my parents) weren't eligible and would need to apply for wavers. I was persistent and was eventually connected to HD DNS dept. where they activated the channels free of charge. Some of the CSR's just don't seem to know what's going on.

There used to be a link to find out if you're eligible but now it's dead: http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp

I'm not sure if they killed it intentionally or if it's a random glitch in their system which might revive itself so you might try it from time to time.

I'd try to call again and again until you finally get someone to connect you to the DNS department. You'll likely get a different CSR each time you call. Just explain that HD DNS is important and you'd like to know if you are eligible before you sign up. If you are eligible for CBS DNS through E*, you're likely eligible for HD DNS through D* as well.

When I called for myself, it was easy and the CSR automatically transferred me to DNS eligibility where I spoke with Michelle.

Will you get out of the OTA game now that you're getting your HD fix elsewhere? I hope not ... your posted experiences are all that stand between me and total OTA incompetency.

Will you get out of the OTA game now that you're getting your HD fix elsewhere? I hope not ... your posted experiences are all that stand between me and total OTA incompetency.

No worries.

Too much invested to quit now. :)

In Manchester, *proficiency* is required. You're likely already ahead of the game.

Anyone notice WDKY-DT dropped the ball last night and passed off Prison Break in standard def 4:3? Looking at a certain newsgroup I can see other areas of the country saw it broadcast in widescreen HD. What a jip! I didn't realize the local afiliates had control of the network stream to downgrade it like that.

Anyone notice WDKY-DT dropped the ball last night and passed off Prison Break in standard def 4:3? Looking at a certain newsgroup I can see other areas of the country saw it broadcast in widescreen HD. What a jip! I didn't realize the local afiliates had control of the network stream to downgrade it like that.

Yep. I noticed and was none too happy. Also WLEX goofed up My Name is Earl and The Office tonight, leaving it in their horribly bad forced stretch mode. WTVQ had issues with Boston Legal, missing a switch back after a commercial break, corrected it within a few minutes, but glitched a few more times through the show. I think WDKY may have had an issue during Bones as well, but I don't recall right now. Just a bad week for HD stuff locally. :)

Anyone notice WDKY-DT dropped the ball last night and passed off Prison Break in standard def 4:3?

I have a feeling that there may have been inclement weather at the satellite downlink site. I noticed a couple of attempts to switch to the HD feed at the beginning of the hour. The HD feed was garbled ...

RE: WLEX ... looks like they stayed in SD mode all night (Tues) ... most likely due to weather warning issues ...

There are days that I can live without HD ... for the greater good.

There are days that I can live without HD ... for the greater good.

I agree but only for the moment. They need to get going and get everything set up so that they can insert the weather/public info into the HD feed without having to drop to 4:3 SD. They've been behind the curve for too long.

During commercial breaks the stations should put up a very basic message to press a button on your remote to toggle weather/advisory info as an overlay on the screen. Or maybe have those advisories pop up by default, but not if the user configured their receiver into 'ignorant mode on' so they would never appear. I know KET is on the cutting edge of using HDTV/DTV in a way that will be more interctive for the end user. It would be neat if something simple was standardized to allow customizations like this.

I guess I am looking too far into the future, but I prefer much of the time to not even see weather icons or scrolling banners with pictures of KY all over my screen.. especially if it is large and intrusive.

Anyone have a signal problem with WKYT-DT the past couple of days? I live in Richmond and usually get the signal at around 72-75% using a Dish Network 811 with indoor antenna. Starting Wednesday night, the signal was really bouncing around between 65-68 % and is even going as low as 49% this morning. Is this a weather thing or is the station having some sort of a problem? WDKY-DT is coming in fine, although it's 2-3% lower than usual (72-75 as opposed to 75-78).

Anyone have a signal problem with WKYT-DT the past couple of days?

Yep. It almost looks like there's a loose connection somewhere in the signal path. On one of my receivers, the signal has been jumping between 100 and 0.

I noticed the signal problems with WKYT-DT Tuesday night during the Amazing Race. I thought since one antenna was tuning it at 100% and it was still breaking up that we had weird tropo due to the sudden change in weather and the overbearing signal through the amp was causing the crazy breakups. I guess it isn't too much signal if you guys are noticing the same glitches with all kinds of crazy signal strengths.

Looks like the glitches on WKYT are HD-related. Ghost Whisperer is on right now in disappointingly standard definition and the signal is rock solid. Did their HD encoder blow up? I hope not.

EDIT: Nevermind the HD is back and stable. Fixed?

anyone having signal strenght issues with fox hd tonight? was trying to check out the star wars movie, and can't even get a lock on the signal, when i used to get a really good signal.

WDKY-DT is working pretty nice for me tonight. Episode II is pretty solid and there's no FOX56 bug on the screen.

I'm trying to decide what I should do regarding HDTV. Should I go through insight or should I go OTA. (any specifc hardware that is best for our area?)

What do most of you all do? I live on redding road in an apartment in lexington. I'm just trying to decide what would be the best option.

I have a strange problem from Georgetown. With an in-door antenna, I get 95-100 signal strength for channel 18 and 36, but get no reception at all for 27. Any suggestions? I know the antenna and TV are working okay, since 18 and 36 come in so well, and I know I'm pointed in the correct general area.

Thanks.

MY,
What type of indoor antenna are you using? WKYT(27) and WDKY(56) digital transmitters are on VHF (Ch13 and Ch4 respectively.)

MY,
What type of indoor antenna are you using? WKYT(27) and WDKY(56) digital transmitters are on VHF (Ch13 and Ch4 respectively.)

I don't know the brand of antenna. My nephew works at a Circuit City, and I told him to get the best in-door antenna that they sold, hoping that would fix the problem. It did improve the signal for 18 and 36 (from low 90's to to high 90's) over what I did have. I didn't know that those two use VHF (figured they were UHF for HD). I'll play with the rabbit ears some. What channels are 18 and 36 HD?

Thanks for the info.

Current and Projected DTV RF channel assignments:

WLEX(18) - Digital 39
WKYT(27) - Digital 13
WTVQ(36) - Digital 40
WDKY(56) - Digital 4
WKLE(46) - Digital 42
WUPX(67) - Digital 21
WBKI(34) - Digital 19
WLJC(65) - Digital 7
WBLU(62) - No official assignment yet.

I'm surprised that you're not getting anything for WKYT, WDKY is another story ...

I bought a ChannelMaster StealthTenna at Lowe's for about 50 bones.
Mounted it in my attic on a mast attached to a rafter. Didn't tighten the antenna to tight, so I could easily rotate it.

I could pick up WKYT and WTVQ really well. So so for WKET and the Christian channels on channel 65. WDKY was the holy grail. Pointed the antenna at WDKY and lost the others.

So-o-o-o-o . . . I bought another StealhTenna, pointed them in appropriate directions (one specifically at WDKY tower towards Clays Ferry), and put them on a splitter (not a "Y") connecter. Ran them to my TV's, searched for DTV and . . .

BAM ! I'm pulling in all the Lexington DTV channels like a champ.
Weakest signal is around 87 (DishNetwork HD DVR unit).

Go to the ChannelMaster website - there's a link to find out where the stations are so you can point your antenna(s). I also used Google Earth to know exactly the orientation of my home in relation, as my sense of direction is horrilble.

Hope this info is helpful. Good luck and happy HDTV!

anyone having problems with WTVQ tonight? last night i was hitting it at 89%... all the other channels are fine... Im hitting WKYT at 99% and WLEX at 92%.

Odd... when they went hot with their weather channel their positioning moved...

I have a large mast that is rotatable. I had it set where i normally do and everything except 36 was coming in with good numbers. So I went out and turned it to the left about 3 degrees and the 36 signal locked at 50 percent so i went a little further and it locked in at 89... it lowered my other numbers a bit... unfortunately 56 (4) is now in the 60s but everything is locked.

Odd... when they went hot with their weather channel their positioning moved...

Probably a coincidence, I haven't noticed any changes wrt TVQ at my location. OTOH, the tropo from the Louisville direction has been cranked up the past two nights ... could be a indicator of local wierdness. ..... Then again, I haven't gotten around to watching Lost/Invasion yet either.

well,

I just picked up an old voom STB off ebay to pick up OTA HDTV. It also came with a Winegard antenna. This is my first foray into this. Do you all have any suggestions/reccomendations?

I just bought an HDTV a couple of weeks ago and am still figuring out what in the Lexington area is in HD.

I just noticed that on WKYT (Lexington OTA 27-1) the Duke basketball game was in HD, but the UK/Indiana game is switched back to SD.

Are all of the UK games in SD? Any word on the UK/UofL game next weekend being HD or SD?

Thanks

Odd... when they went hot with their weather channel their positioning moved...

I have a large mast that is rotatable. I had it set where i normally do and everything except 36 was coming in with good numbers. So I went out and turned it to the left about 3 degrees and the 36 signal locked at 50 percent so i went a little further and it locked in at 89... it lowered my other numbers a bit... unfortunately 56 (4) is now in the 60s but everything is locked.


The addition of a sub channel has no effect on the direction of the station or RF signal... I'll bet your antenna moved a little... Sub Channels are simply dividing the data stream...

AMR

goto www.antennaweb.org

That should help you out quite a bit. Even though this is a lexington, ky thread most of the people that post in this thread don't really show that southern hospitality. They just talk amongst themselves.

I just bought an HDTV a couple of weeks ago and am still figuring out what in the Lexington area is in HD.

I just noticed that on WKYT (Lexington OTA 27-1) the Duke basketball game was in HD, but the UK/Indiana game is switched back to SD.

Are all of the UK games in SD? Any word on the UK/UofL game next weekend being HD or SD?

Thanks

In the past couple of years, it has been very hard to find this info out. I can't even remember how many times i've called channel 27 front office on gamedays to find out if it would be in hd, and they NEVER knew themselves. Anyway to answer your question, the UL UK game is in hd. I found it on cbs sportsline website. CBS has been terrible about hd college games. They usually use their resources on NFL weekly coverage, so they only get interested in doing hd during the NCAA tournament.

Even though this is a lexington, ky thread most of the people that post in this thread don't really show that southern hospitality. They just talk amongst themselves.

LOL ... now that's a bit harsh.

Perhaps the reason nobody has responded to your post is because 1) "we" don't have much experience with using old VoOm receivers, 2) we haven't been checking the thread hourly (or even daily), or 3) a combination of the above.

For the record, I don't know what kind of "tips" you are looking for. The only thing I can suggest is that if the Winegard antenna is the "bat-wing" type, it will not be of much use for WDKY(FOX) ... much discussion earlier in the thread, .... specific questions tend to help. :)

As for the UK/IU "game"/bloodbath, WLKY in Louisville did not have it in HD either.

Current and Projected DTV RF channel assignments:

WLEX(18) - Digital 39
WKYT(27) - Digital 13
WTVQ(36) - Digital 40
WDKY(56) - Digital 4
WKLE(46) - Digital 42
WUPX(67) - Digital 21
WBKI(34) - Digital 19
WLJC(65) - Digital 7
WBLU(62) - No official assignment yet.

I'm surprised that you're not getting anything for WKYT, WDKY is another story ...

Since you were nice enough to tell me that WKYT's HD is a VHF signal, and not a UHF signal like LEX and TVQ, I realized that playing with the UHF antenna wasn't going to help me any. I played with the VHF antenna and managed to pull in WKYT in the high 60's, so that's the key three that I needed. Doubt I could get DKY from Georgetown, and I never watch the educational channels (satellite has much more to offer in that arena).

Thanks for your help

sleddogn -- thanks for the info. This HD thing is kind of addictive, I find myself watching things I really don't want to watch, just because it is in HD. I'll look forward to seeing that game though (would probably look forward to it more if I were a UofL fan!) I'm going to have some people over to watch it, so I'm pretty happy that its in HD.

optikill -- so far everyone has seemed pretty helpful....thanks for the link to that site though. It didn't really pertain to my question, but still had some good info.

I'm located in the Andover/Hamberg area of Lexington and know from previous posts (done alot of post reading) that there are some others in my neck of the woods.

What antennas are you using to pick up the combo of UHF/VHF that you need?

I picked up this antenna just to try things out:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062081&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&pg=2&parentPage=family

UHF/VHF/FM Indoor Antenna With 12-Position Fine Tuning
Model: 15-1868 | Catalog #: 15-1868

I can get 90-97% on

WLEX(18) - Digital 39
WKYT(27) - Digital 13
WTVQ(36) - Digital 40

if I play w/ it to maximize each station. Or I can get 80-88% on all three if I pick a middle ground. To get WDKY(56) - Digital 4 too, I can get all stations at about 60%.

I am going to take the indoor antenna back and either put a better antenna in my attic or outside because I'd like to get a stonger signal and I don't want to have to mess w/ the antenna for each station to acheive a good signal -- and my fiancee is giving me dirty looks for having a big antenna on the entertainment center . Any suggestions on specific model? Cheaper is better obviously!

Perhaps my comment was a little heavy handed. Hopefully that my experiments with the voom box will be helpful to those around here who are considering a similar route.

As for the antennas. I know absolutely nothing. This antenna came with the reciever as part of the auction deal at a very reasonable price.

I don't know what I'm going to be able to pick up though... I live on Redding Road overlooking Tates Creek Road. I think I'm in a pretty decent position to pick up most stations, well according to antennaweb.org

Here is the antenna i am using. I have it mounted on my chimmney, off a 10 ft. mast w/ rotor. I have great luck with everything, except fox 56 gives me fits sometimes. I live almost directly across from central baptist hospital off nichlosville road. I think i have multipath issues from reflections off some of the larger building nearby, but its only a working theory.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103085&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

Anyone know if there has been any luck receiving the Lex stations as far off as Etown? I actually live just 5 miles south of Etown and would love to be able to pick up Lex as well as the Ville?

I like http://www.hdsportsguide.com/ for HD sports info.

jImbEam

jImbEam -- very cool site!

well i recieved my Voom box that i purchased from ebay and i am very impressed. I just used a set of basic rabbit ear antenna and I am picking up everything in the 95 - 99% range according to the strength meter. I don't pick up any fox station however. I guess I will have to venture out of my apartment and put a powered antenna on my patio facing that way or something.

any ideas?

(aslo if anyone has any specifc questions about the voom boxes, i'll do my best to help you out).

Anyone else failing to pick-up 18-3? I know, it is only weather radar, but it is the best of the three locals.

does KET ever broadcast anything in HD? I tried searching their schedules of upcoming programing, but it doesn't say.

does KET ever broadcast anything in HD? I tried searching their schedules of upcoming programing, but it doesn't say.


They show selected prime time programs from the PBS-HD national feed. I wouldn't call it HD, necessarily, as it is multicasted to death and starved for bandwidth.

There's a Louisville KET digital that shows the PBS-HD feed and only with one other multicasted channel. It's much better quality.

The Tennessee public TV stations all show the PBS-HD feed continuously with only one other multicasted channel. In NC, at least they turn all the other channels off except one when broadcasting the PBS-HD feed. I'm not sure why KET doesn't do this.

does KET ever broadcast anything in HD? I tried searching their schedules of upcoming programing, but it doesn't say.

All the shows on KET4 during Primetime are HD shows. (which is more than I can say for the PBS national HD feed). we do convert them from 1080i to 720p to give the best picture quality we can for the bandwidth available.


HD is on from 8:00 pm to 11:00 pm Monday- Saturday and 7:00 pm to 11:00 pm on Sunday.

There is no HD on WKMJ-DT in Louisville at this time.


We turn off KET3-6 every night to make room for the HD service.. KET1 and KET2 must stay up as they are the feeds for the 16 analog plants..KET2 is also carried by most cable companies in the state using a DTV decoder to feed an analog modulator..

BTW both KET1 and KET2 combined are using less bandwidth than most single SD services.



William

I tried searching their schedules of upcoming programing, but it doesn't say.

Also See here for a detailed schedule of KET4 HD programming - which airs during primetime as William posted - KET4(46.4 PSIP remapped in the case of WKLE-DT, Lexington) is 720p during primetime, and 480i at other times :

http://www.ket.org/dtv/programs.htm

Anyone else failing to pick-up 18-3? I know, it is only weather radar, but it is the best of the three locals.

Yep ... it's been gone for about a week now ... I've avoided mentioning this just in case it was a "mistake." Personally, I'd be OK with 18-3 *if* they would drop 18-2. :)

Also, it appears that they have had some xmitter maintainance issues over the past few days.

I don't pick up any fox station however. I guess I will have to venture out of my apartment and put a powered antenna on my patio facing that way or something.

FOX (and KET) towers are located near Clay's Ferry. Additionally, WDKY(FOX) is on low VHF (ch4), which has turned out to be something of a pain ...

At the very least, I'd recommend an outdoor UHF/VHF combo (CM3016) ... and possibly a rotor, or you could just use two (or more) antennas ...

Hi,

I can't receive any signal from 27.1, 27.2 and 27.3 on my HDTV PC while I was using Windows XP Media Center 2005. I do receive the signal from frequency 13 but it won't show up in the monitor. However, the TV Guide of the Media Center didn't have channel 13 in Lexington area listing. Is there anyway I can receive WKYT DTV programming through the Media Center? Please advise. Thanks.

I do receive programming from other stations like 18.1, 18.2, 36.1, 36.2, 46.1, 46.2, 46.3, 46.4, and 56.1.

Regards,

I'm hoping someone can help me understand HD and OTA reception in the Lex, KY area. Here's my story:

I've just recently purchased a Panasonic 44" LCD which has one coax in for an antenna. I live in Masterson Station, bought a basic indoor RCA antenna (ANT200) and hooked it up to find that I could receive 18-1, 18-2, 18-3 (but not right now), 36-1 and 36-2, but never more than at 88% signal strength for any of them. I'm sure there is more to than just this, but here are my questions:

1.) How can I receive the other channels that are out there?
2.) Do you have to use an attic or roof mounted antenna to get them?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

i guess that would totally depend on your geographic relation to the broadcast antennaa and other factors such as obstructions, antenna strength, tuner strength, etc...

i live off tates creek and i'm using an old Voom HiDef box and getting 95 - 99% on everything except fox (which i don't get at all b/c i'm using plain jane rabbit ears).

Perhaps an antenna mounted in your attic might be best - or on the roof if you can swing it - OR - just get the hidef package from insight...

I guess what I don't understand is why I can get 18-1, 18-2, 18-3, 36-1 and 36-2 with my indoor antenna, but not the others when antennaweb says that I need the most powerful antenna to get 36 and a basic one should receive 27.

Also, what exactly does the Voom box do for you? Does this replace the indoor antenna and provide for better pickup and reception? Or do you still need the antenna as well?

I live in a two-story house with no major obstructions around.

KET and WDKY both broadcast from Clays Ferry while WLEX-DT and WTVQ-DT are off of Winchester Rd and broadcast at a much higher power than KET and WDKY.

Depending on the construction of your house, the signal may not penetrate well (wooden roofs can absorb up to 90 percent of the signal). Antennaweb assumes that the antenna is outside.

Extend the rabbit ears to see if you can get WKYT-DT.


WKYT-DT and WDKY-DT are VHF channels while the others are UHF.

Success!

I mounted an antenna in the attic of my two-story and am now picking up all the channels including 56. I'm going to try to rotate the antenna a bit to see if I can get a better signal strength for a few of them, but so far so good.

I've listed this plasma at AVS marketplace if anyone's interested.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=619905

Sent a note to Dave Powell at WLEX regarding the disappearance of 18-3 (Doppler Radar). I received this reply:

Despite protests from the National Association of Broadcasters, the FCC decided to stick with its rule that all 24/7 channels, including DTV subchannels, must air at least three hours per week of approved children’s programming. They’re making no exceptions for the public service of the Doppler.

We do have the best Doppler, the only one owned and controlled by a station and the only one in Lexington (the others are government-operated in Fort Knox and Jackson and can’t see low storms this far away).

Dave

Dave is not quite right on that one... they could air the doppler but they woud have to run an additional 3 hours of childrens programming using 18-1 and/or 18-2..

On 12-17-2005 the FCC delayed the effective date of this rule as several of the interested parties have gotten together and made an alternate proposal for their consideration.

... and so are 18.2 and 18.3 on WLEX-DT :) :) :)

I hope this is a permenant change and not a prelude to some other bandwidth "reassignment."

PS: Bonus points for making it through both Leno and Conan without missing any HD switches ... :)

Just a heads up that WLEX digital is now showing up on Insight Cable (channel 773 I believe). Kudos to Insight and all the local broadcasters for finally getting all these digital channels on the local cable system.

Great news on 18's decision to STOP THE STRETCHING! It looks so much better now for their non-HD stuff.

I'm so happy the stretch is gone! Here's hoping they finally start passing DD5.1.

I'm happy at least one affiliate here in Lexington is using 1080i. Looks much better on my set since it only accepts a 1080i signal. My tuner has to convert everything else to 1080i, so quality is lost from all these other affiliates broadcasting at 720P. WLEX-DT is natively 1080i, so no conversion has to take place. Without those pesky subchannels WLEX-DT is looking so much better on my TV when compared to what the other guys are doing here.

No stretch, no subchannels.. the way digital TV should be done! Thanks Dave Powell!

Well with the long vacation break I have officially tried everything I know to get FOX, outside of going to cable. I still can't believe they build this BIG beautiful antenna with strobes that travel farther than the signal. Maybe one day, more than likely after I'm dead, either cable will be ALL digital or the Sat guys will get local HD here in little old Lex. Until then I'll simply remain bitter.

1. Is your antenna outside and clear of obstructions?
2. Is your antenna a VHF-UHF combination antenna?
3. Is the antenna pointed to toward the tower?

I do know folks in this area who install antenna systems for a living..PM me if you need a recommendation.

FWIW, WDKY seemed to be having some xmitter issues during the 'Skins/Eagles game yesterday. Or perhaps whatever is causing the persistant interference at my location was particularly nasty today ...

... In any case, last I heard Insight (in Lexington) does have all the local DT's now.

FWIW, WDKY seemed to be having some xmitter issues during the 'Skins/Eagles game yesterday. Or perhaps whatever is causing the persistant interference at my location was particularly nasty today ...

... In any case, last I heard Insight (in Lexington) does have all the local DT's now.


Yesterday was terrible reception conditions here. I'm hoping things are better today.

I am a Directv customer in Versailles but their lack of new HD national offerings is getting old. Does anyone know what HD is available through Adelphia in Versailles? Also, what boxes are available, HD, DVR, HD-DVR, etc. Thanks for the info guys.
Kevin

A good place to start would be www.adelphia.com ... Although, I suspect some of their online info is not up to date.

hdtvchallendged, thanks for the info but there is no info as to what channels are carried, nor could i get any info from customer service. Just hoping someone had it and could fill me in.

volusiacat Have you thought about going the over-the-air route for some HD? Do you have a place to mount a large antenna?

sorry guys i should have been more clear, i do currently receive off air HD (except Fox) but am interested in the National offerings by Adelphia. It seem clear Directv isnt going to advance their national channel offerings until they roll out their extensive LIL.

V,
As of today, a typical Central KY Adelphia HD line up (in this case Danville) includes:

702 WKYT-HD
7xx KET4-SD/HD - (KET2 and KET3 appear to be in the Digital Basic tier.)
--------------
(Premiums @ ~$16 a pop - including the SD packages)
750 HBO-HD
751 Sho-HD
752 Starz-HD
753 Max-HD
---------------
('HD Tier' @ $5 )
770 HDNet
771 HDNetMovies
772 ESPN-HD
774 InHD
775 InHD2
776 Disc-HD

I would assume that you need some basic level of service (~$20 to $30 or more) for the privilege of accessing the HD Tier.

As you can see this isn't exactly a compelling argument for switching away from D*. OTOH, The Richmond system appears to have a more complete set of local "HD" channels available.

The website mentions the Mot-6412 HD-DVR, but I have no idea if it's actually available in these parts. If available the DVR rents for ~$8/mo. With the weak channel line up, I haven't bothered to inquire further.

thanks for the info...i agree, no reason to jump ship to Adelphia. I guess i will have to wait out Directv and start saving for a new HD-DVD player:) Thanks again everyone.
Kevin

I'm looking at moving to Winchester potentially as well and was wondering if anyone in that neck of the woods is able to pull in WDKY-DT? The housing area I am looking at prohibits antennas larger than 24", so I'd have to sneak my 83" wireloop I created specifically for WDKY-DT. At least it's a thin long antenna, so I could possibly tack it to the side of the moulding (assuming I get the house I want). Or maybe it will work just as well in the attic with the reflectors I made.

I was hoping the Adelphia HD lineup was more impessive than that as well. I have Dish now, but the wife is still pissed that Lifetime and Lifetime Movies are gone. If I don't tell Dish I am moving and update the billing address I can likely keep my FOX5 distant feed I obtained a waiver for in 1999. No HD though.

... The housing area I am looking at prohibits antennas larger than 24"...

You do know that the FCC has ruled that they cannot limit your ability to receive over the air transmission... I don't have the link handy but it's at the FCC site (I'll find it tonight at home if no one else jumps in..)

You do know that the FCC has ruled that they cannot limit your ability to receive over the air transmission... I don't have the link handy but it's at the FCC site (I'll find it tonight at home if no one else jumps in..)

I suspect the neighborhood housing deed people will tell me that I can receive the same channels through the dish, but you and I know they aren't passing HD locals down through the dish.

I haven't put a stake on the property and have larger concerns as a first time home buyer right now, but I thought I remember reading what you are referring to also. I should have another look though. If I want to mount an antenna that spans 83" from tip to tip, I should be able to. That's the optimal length for the specific frequency, so the FCC should allow an antenna at least to VHF channel 1 length (which would be longer than 83").

You do know that the FCC has ruled that they cannot limit your ability to receive over the air transmission... I don't have the link handy but it's at the FCC site (I'll find it tonight at home if no one else jumps in..)

Here's the information/fact sheet on these rules, and details on what restrictions are, and are not allowed :

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


I suspect the neighborhood housing deed people will tell me that I can receive the same channels through the dish, but you and I know they aren't passing HD locals down through the dish.


Doesn't matter anyway. Per the OTARD rules They can't prohibit you from using OTA regardless whether or not you also decide to use other options to receive TV programming, nor can they prohibit you from installing an outdoor antenna to use OTA.


If I want to mount an antenna that spans 83" from tip to tip, I should be able to.


You can, per the OTARD rules, size restrictions aren't allowed for OTA antennas for TV/DTV reception.

Definitely good to know. I haven't settled/got all the cards lined up to move out that way yet (would have to break my current lease). In the neighborhood no one has a rooftop OTA antenna, so either they are all cable and satellite users, they don't watch TV or they get acceptable reception with an antenna mounted in the attic. Doesn't sound like WDKY-DT is too easy to pick up out in Winchester any better than in Lexington (you can read many pages back a year ago when I was struggling to build my contraction to get in enough signal for a lock). Anyone out there in Winchester having success with WDKY-DT?

i recieved the us digital hd receiver for christmas. I have it hooked up to some old satellite cables that run under the house but are not connected to anything. I can get 18, 27, and 36 at 85-90% however 56 and KET, i get nothing. I am looking at antennas but dont want something as big a car. I saw that the Lowes on Nich. Rd has the Channel Master 3010 also found some on ebay a little cheaper. Anyone have any luck with this? Could i be able to get 56 and KETwith this? I live off Liberty Rd near Hamburg. Could i get 56 without messing up the other channels. Thanks for any help.

Chris,
The 3010 is probably not a very good choice for WDKY-DT due to it's poor low VHF performance. A 3014 or 3016 is a better choice. Also, you may need a rotor at your location since KET and WDKY will be almost 180deg from the rest of the local towers.

As always, YMMV ...

I live in Glen Eagles and have a 3016 in my attic. I point it at KET and WDKY and pick up the others from the side and back. This has worked well for me, but you maybe too far from 18, 27, and 36 to do this.

1. Is your antenna outside and clear of obstructions?
2. Is your antenna a VHF-UHF combination antenna?
3. Is the antenna pointed to toward the tower?

I do know folks in this area who install antenna systems for a living..PM me if you need a recommendation.


William, thanks for the quick response.

My antenna(s) are in my attic.
I'm using a CM 4228 and a VHF 2-6, see attachment for DPF
My CM4228 is on a rotater, can get Louisville some.
The VHF is dead at and tried different angles to 56.
I have not tried the roof. Didn't want to go there but....

William, it would be great if you can PM me some contacts. Thanks for your help.

[QUOTE=the19hole]
My antenna(s) are in my attic.
I'm using a CM 4228 and a VHF 2-6, see attachment for DPF
My CM4228 is on a rotater, can get Louisville some.
The VHF is dead at and tried different angles to 56.
QUOTE]

Are your antennas combined using a high/low splitter joiner (HLSJ)?
Generic wideband couplers allow signals from one antenna
to be lost out the other, with destructive interference in worst cases.
Particularly in attic installations with appreciable horizontal runs,
well-shielded RG6 coax is wanted, strictly avoiding twinlead.

Even with reasonably strong signals at the antennas,
reception can be improved by a low gain low noise preamp
co-located with the coupler, minimizing standing wave losses in the downlead.

I have no personal experience with Y10-2-6 antennas,
but they appear to have relatively short elements,
where fairly long elements are wanted to resonate at channel 4.

Chris082676 I live in Andover and like nuts4scuba I have a 3016 in my attic that I picked up from Lowes (the one on Richmond Road) about 2 weeks ago, works great. I have it pointed so that I can get all chans decently. If I rotate to get one chan at 97+% I lose the others, but I found a spot where I can get everything (including FOX and KET) at 75-88% -- seems like enough quality to keep things looking good and locked in.

Thanks for the help guys. I went to Lowes and picked up the 3016. I can get WDKY at about 50%. Cant get KET though. Getting tired of going up in the attic and coming down to fine tune! I have another question for you guys. How do you properly ground the antenna? I know you should be is it absolutely necessary? Do I have to get a ground rod and run a wire from the antenna to the rod? Once again thanks for all the help.

Hmm.. Both of my HD tuners have 0% WDKY-DT signal right now. No American Idol! :(

No changes to my antennas or equipment.. I did move my drum set out of the room, so no more metal cymbals everywhere causing uncertain signal. In fact the other night I had a consistant 69% signal (which is very high for me), so I don't see how it could be 0% tonight unles FOX is having problems.

No signal on WDKY here either. Suck ass station.

Make sure you send a complaint to WDKY at

http://www.wdky56.com/station_info/contact.shtml

I'm bummed no American Idol in HD tonight! Their analog signal is unacceptable in my location. It's after midnight and still 0% WDKY-DT over the air. How is it for the Insight TV folks?

Humm ... no WDKT-DT here either. OTOH, I didn't really miss them, since I had a 100% dropout free hour of "Bones" from WDRB. :)

How do you properly ground the antenna? I know you should be is it absolutely necessary?

As long as it's in the attic, you don't need to ground it. Grounding is only required if the antenna is mounted outdoor. There are a least a couple of threads about grounding available via the search tool.

Humm ... no WDKT-DT here either. OTOH, I didn't really miss them, since I had a 100% dropout free hour of "Bones" from WDRB. :)

I'd love to get the Louisville stations OTA. I haven't actually tried to seriously tune them yet, cause it would probably make me loose the Lexington stations unless I put up a rotor. You in the Lexington area? What UHF antenna you using?

WDKY seems to be back now, and slightly stronger than before. My signal seems to be in the low 90s right now.

You in the Lexington area? What UHF antenna you using?.

Not exactly ... more like an 'undisclosed location' in Boyle Co. The antenna is a 4228 coupled with a Winegard AP-4800.

Is anyone in the London Ky area getting the Lexington digitals? My family lives out there and I don't know if it would be worth it to get a large antenna and try.

Is anyone in the London Ky area getting the Lexington digitals? My family lives out there and I don't know if it would be worth it to get a large antenna and try.

Like always, it depends. I'd say you'd need them to be in an excellent location to begin with (on a hill with no obstruction to the north) and you need to be willing to put up a tower and a large antenna. If not, chances of failure would be significant.

I have a relatively good location here and can get WKYT-DT most of the time. WDKY was spotty but it seems it's also problematic even for those who are closer. WTVQ and WLEX are a no-go for me due to an LP local here in Corbin on analog 39. I have been willing to go to what most would consider extreme measures for this. Knoxville is actually much easier here and I'd suspect this might even be true in London depending on exactly where you are and the surrounding terrain.

Also, there should be no problem with WYMT-DT in Hazard as well as WKSO-DT Somerset.

Anyone know the contact numbers to call the various stations when they forget to flip the HD switch like WLEX has done tonight for Surface? You'd think that after 6 months they would have this all worked out by now. Guess not.

I have a digital cable ready TV and it can't seem to find Lexington Insight's ABC HD channel when I auto scan. Does anyone know what the real channel is so I can tune it in? My TV was able to find CBS HD on 72.1 so I don't know why it can't find
ABC.

Thanks,
jImbEam

Lexington, KY Channels =
Channel 36 (ABC) is at 40.1 and 40.2 for weather.
Channel 18 (NBC) is at 39.1
Channel 27 (CBS) is at 13.1, 13.2 (UPN), and 13.3 for weather radar
Channel 42 (KET) is at 46.1, 46.2, 46.3, 46.4, 46.5 and 46.6
Channel 56 (FOX) is at 4.1, VHF antenna required and is difficult to receive for most

not exactly sure what 72.1 is?

for that 72.1 you are picking up, are you sure it is Lexington and not another city? Maybe Louisville? You could have your antenna pointed in the wrong direction. I think ABC is a VHF station, if I remember correctly, along with WDKY 56 FOX.

Sorry for the confusion, that is the actual digital channel that Insight re-brodcasts CBS HD on. I just wanted to pick up the digital HD channels without the box since I have a digital cable ready TV.

jImbEam

Hey folks,

Anybody got the Dish Network/Alltel bundle? I'm hoping to upgrade to HDTV soon and am debating the over-the-air/digital HD issue. I'm already an Alltel subscriber for phone and DSL and recently learned of their bundle deal with Dish Network.

Can anyone shed some light on Dish Network's quality? How much is this bundle of three services?

Thanks in advance.
-Matt

I have a digital cable ready TV and it can't seem to find Lexington Insight's ABC HD channel when I auto scan. Does anyone know what the real channel is so I can tune it in? My TV was able to find CBS HD on 72.1 so I don't know why it can't find
ABC.


For the past several months I've been using OTA for HD because all the networks were not on Insight due to carriage (read money) issues. I think ABC was one that wasn't. However, Insight did say they expected to have them all in early 06, so I guess I need to re-cable and re-scan and see if that actually happened - it sounds like maybe not?

Note: I get noticably better HD PQ with OTA (indoor antenna).

Shoot! Due to the snowy weather LEX isn't show the Olympics in HD right now. I guess in order to insert the closed/cancelled local notification bar on the bottom of the screen they needed to switch down to standard def.

WLEX has made the decision to broadcast the Olympics in SD today since they want to display the weather closings. (Evidently the don’t have the technology to display weather info in HD) This would have been the first time the Olympics have ever been broadcast in HD in Lexington. We (the greater Lexington HDTV owners) need to let WLEX know this is a poor decision. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Let them know this is an unacceptable decision. I called the network 5 minutes after the Olympics started this afternoon at 3PM and complained, they said I was the 2nd to complaint. If we want to see the weather closing info, we can always tune to 18-2 for over the air, or tune to 18 standard digital on cable. Give them a call and let our voices be heard on this issue!


WLEX
Newsroom (only number I know of they answer on weekend)
381 1801

50 minutes into the olympic broadcast they did switch to HD! Hopefully they don't switch back to SD every time we have a snow flurry and a new closing! (Heck the roads aren't even bad today, they are only wet!)

They got rid of 18-2. They are only running 18-1 now.

I called and thanked them for switching on the HD. The nice lady said they had received quite a few complaints the Olympics were not being shown in HD, so the producer decided to take off the weather advisories and switch it over. She said she doesn't think they have the capability to overlay these weather advisories over the HD.

I figured I would put my 2-cents in, just to let them know I appreciate the HD. Maybe they'll get some technology to overlay advisories over HD.

Anybody else notice that the WLEX HD signal for the Olympics tonight is very unreliable? I wonder if this is a local problem or an NBC national problem? Anybody know if WAVE TV in Louisville is having these problems tonight? I even saw ghosting for a couple minutes, I thought digital was supposed to fix ghosting!!

Well with the long vacation break I have officially tried everything I know to get FOX, outside of going to cable. I still can't believe they build this BIG beautiful antenna with strobes that travel farther than the signal. Maybe one day, more than likely after I'm dead, either cable will be ALL digital or the Sat guys will get local HD here in little old Lex. Until then I'll simply remain bitter.


I tried one last thing today. I ordered a CM7777 that has a VHF and UHF input at the amp. 75% on my dish 811. That was a lot of work, now let's see what's on. The news :(

Thanks for everyone's help.

Allen

Anybody else notice that the WLEX HD signal for the Olympics tonight is very unreliable?

Yes, it's been dropping out so frequently I had to switch over to SD; it's quite annoying. It seems worse this evening than this afternoon; this is with 98% signal strength on my end.

EDIT: a quick check of the Louisville section shows some problems tonight on WAVE, too

EDIT: Nightwatchman, thanks for the update and link on the network problems.

FYI, The dropouts during NBC HD Olympics tonight are a network issue involving the weather in NYC. It's snowing there. It's an issue that has occured before, and is an issue affecting all NBC HD stations, not just WLEX-DT(and as previous poster just mentioned WAVE-DT Lou as well). I'm getting it here from both Cincinnati+Dayton HD affiliates in a "simultanous" fashion as well. See here for more info :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7114283&&#post7114283

If I recall correctly, I believe the issue is likely related to either STL or sat uplink in NYC being used for NBC HD feed, and very high frequencies used which can be effected by the weather/water droplets.

Thanks for the replys. Its good to know all the technical difficulties were from the NBC network and not the local affiliate, I read NYC was getting a blizzard last night, so that explains what was happening. Surprising that bad weather in NYC will spoil NBC signal to the rest of the nation for HD, while SD is fine. I hope they come up with a solution to fix that in the future.

Re: NBC HD links

'It was a tactical decision. It carried some risk ... '

I watched portions of the Olympics on WLEX 18's 1080i over-the-air signal and it was SPECTACULAR. I noticed 18 shut down 18.2 to get the best signal out and it was great.

All the trouble of dealing with an outside antenna and a ATSC set to box was well worth it. I would highly recommend those within the signal area (small though it is) try over-the-air reception if you have an ATSC tuner box or built-in - you will be pleased with the results. Even the digital standard TV signal (SD) is so much better than analog, it makes the cost of the refurbished Samsung SIR-t451 tuner well worth it.

I noticed 18 shut down 18.2 to get the best signal out and it was great.

Yep 18.2 and 18.3 have been gone for quite a while now - and good riddance :) Compared to WAVE-DT (1080i + 2x480i), WLEX-DT comes out ahead by a long margin. Now if they could get the 5.1 working ... ;)

I still don't know if sports in 5.1 are going to work out. The audio on the Super Bowl was actually really annoying, it was fun to have the random fans near the 'rear mics' yelling out of my surrounds for a little while...then got annoying fast. I just can't see 5.1 in a non controlled environment working, especially outdoors.

Why is the NASCAR Daytona 500 not in hi def? All of the pre race ceremonies were in hi def, then the race starts and back to SD. I was under the impression that the race was going to be totally hi def. I'm really irritated with this.

Just talked with LEX18, having problems, engineer working on it! Cross your fingers!

I am considering subscribing to Insight's HD package for the additional HD programming and to simplify life for the wife. Currently have Dish for analog and get HD OTA. Reception is great from Dish and what I get is good OTA (no Fox; little KET). Most discussions here are about antennas. Can anyone provide some insight to Insight? Do they provide all of the local HD channels and are they as good as OTA? Do the non HD channels show well on your HDTV? Would appeciate any information that would help me decide to switch over. Thanks.

I am considering subscribing to Insight's HD package for the additional HD programming and to simplify life for the wife. Currently have Dish for analog and get HD OTA. Reception is great from Dish and what I get is good OTA (no Fox; little KET). Most discussions here are about antennas. Can anyone provide some insight to Insight? Do they provide all of the local HD channels and are they as good as OTA? Do the non HD channels show well on your HDTV? Would appeciate any information that would help me decide to switch over. Thanks.

I have Insight, but not digital or HD. With my builtin QAM tuner it was possible to get the HD locals and PBS over analog - this was several months ago - I need to rescan and check again. I had actually switched over to OTA for HD and the OTA PQ was a bit sharper. One other reason was that one network was not on cable at that time (ABC IIRC). According to Insight, this was scheduled to change in early 06.

I'm surprised you can't get KET HD OTA. I get KET-4 fine and Fox is ok with an indoor antenna (Silver Sensor).

I have Insight, but not digital or HD. With my builtin QAM tuner it was possible to get the HD locals and PBS over analog - this was several months ago - I need to rescan and check again. I had actually switched over to OTA for HD and the OTA PQ was a bit sharper. One other reason was that one network was not on the cable (ABS IIRC). According to Insight, this was scheduled to change in early 06.

I'm surprised you can't get KET HD OTA. I get KET-4 fine and Fox is ok with an indoor antenna (Silver Sensor).


Some earlier comments on this thread led me to believe that Insight has encripted all HD now, but I don't have QAM anyway. I haven't tried the Silver Sensor -- didn't think it would do any good since Fox HD transmits on VHF channel 4 -- but if you're having luck, I may try it. I'm near Liberty and Fortune. Where are you located. Thanks for the comment.

For the apartment dweller the ONLY way I was able to pick up WDKY-DT here in Lexington was to make my own antenna with an amplifier.

Here's what you need:

Twinlead wire
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2110605w345.jpg
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049617&cp=&kw=twin+lead&parentPage=search

VHF/UHF amp:
http://www.mcminone.com/content/productimages/s3/3938228.jpg
http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=MCMProducts&product%5Fid=33%2D290
I bought the one pictured, but I think Lowes sells the exact same thing branded under 'RCA' or 'Philips'.. I can't remember at the moment.

Cut the twinlead 83" from tip to tip. This is the required length specifically for VHF channel 4 (which is WDKY-DT). On each end twist the 2 pieces of wire together to form a 'V'. This completes the circuit.

Now slice only one of the wires in the very middle. From this break twist on a couple feet more of twinlead wire to each point where you sliced the break. This is what you would connect to your amplifier VHF/UHF-in. You will need to buy one of those adapters to convert to standard coax cable F-connector or you can solder on a connector to plug it into the amplifier. From the amplifier to your tuner/receiver you should use RG-6 cable to minimize signal loss to your tuner/receiver.

Mount the antenna as high as you can (I put it in the attic in our townhome). To enhance the signal (draw it into your antenna) put metal rods behind the antenna. These metal rods need to be 5% longer than your antenna, so in this case, you would need 87" metal rods. For this I used grounding wire because it was thick and I had it laying around from my satellite dish install kit. I made 3 of these exactly the same and placed them evenly spaced behind my antenna held up with push pins on the truss' in the attic. These rods are called reflectors and they help draw signal into the antenna.

I tried several retail antenna solutions to pick up FOX in my apartment and every one of them sucked REAL bad. I would have better luck with these antennas outside, but since I didn't have a way to mount one (without it falling and hurting someone/pissing off the landlord) I had to keep trying until I found a solution. I found the easy construction and that particular amp (I tried others) gave me the highest signal.

I'm moving into my first house (in Winchester) next Wednesday. I will be one-tenth of a degree of longitude closer to the FOX tower at the house than I am now at the apartment. My longitude is about 5-hundreth's of a degree different. If the radiation pattern of WDKY-DT is uniform from the tower I think I have a chance of picking them up in Winchester. With line-of-site and other obstacles you never know though. I have not seen any evidence in this thread of anyone in Winchester posting about what kind of Lexington locals they are picking up over the air. As I understand it, Adelphia cable only carries CBS and PBS in HD. I will be doing my best to try to pull all the Lex locals in and will definitely report my experiences.

By the way.. this antenna is also excellant for picking up WKYT-DT and WLEX-DT. For some reason WTVQ-DT and WKLE-DT don't like the antenna setup very much at all.

Here's some pictures of my antenna I made for WDKY-DT

http://s94980196.onlinehome.us/8602/Pictures/hdtv/Twinlead01.jpg

I soldered on a balun to screw in a cable from the antenna to an amp. The mount for it is made out of a clamp for window blinds, some epoxy and screws.

http://s94980196.onlinehome.us/8602/Pictures/hdtv/Twinlead02.jpg

Insight does not encrypt all the OTA HD. I can pick up CBS and PBS on 72.x. I have a friend that can pick up them all but he can't get his TV to tell him the real channels they are on and my TV does not seem to be able to find them.

jImbEam

Some earlier comments on this thread led me to believe that Insight has encripted all HD now, but I don't have QAM anyway. I haven't tried the Silver Sensor -- didn't think it would do any good since Fox HD transmits on VHF channel 4 -- but if you're having luck, I may try it. I'm near Liberty and Fortune. Where are you located. Thanks for the comment.

I am located near Tates-Creek and MoW. However, my set currently is on the second floor and the antenna is mounted at ceiling height (hidden) - that may have something to do with pulling the signal. According to the set's Signal Strength meter that I just checked, FOX is at 75% where the other channels are 95% or higher. I don't really watch FOX much, so I'm not sure if the signal is consistent.

If Insight has encrypted the locals (didn't think that was allowed?) I can continue to get around that with OTA. If they're not careful, I'll drop cable altogether.

Is there a Website out there where a person can go to to build an Antenna.Step by step what lengths to cut the rods etc. for what specific purposes. I know most is made out of aluminum how good would copper be? Since I know of no place to buy Aluminum to cut to your own size to make an Antenna. I was just wondering how copper will work? You can cut it to the size needed join it together with elbows or connectors even soder (If spelled correctly IF not you know what I am getting at) or Crimp the ends flat. Most UHF Antennas I have looked up ends at 60 Miles or 60 Miles +. There should be an Antenna made to reach the Extreme Deepest of the Deepest fringe Areas. Most UHF Towers where I live is about 85 +/- Miles away for UHF And the Same on VHF. WCPO in Cincy is the Worst to pick up (VHF) others are so so. And on Lexington Nearly Perfect but the Signals vary everynow and then. One time it is lets say 80-85% next time it might be 50% but still a Good Picture but Tiling up or distortion. I want to Make a Antenna Capable of pulling in Stations on UHF upto at Least 100 Miles upto 150 Miles and capable of that VHF or more if needed. Is this possible. IF I or we move to A more remote location I will have to go upon top of a Hill to put up a Antenna and there will be a Great length of wire run probably 1000 to 1500 ft. Unless I can go up 150 or so feet due to being in a Holler. Can a Person Really make an Antenna capable of pulling in Signals 100 Miles will be good for UHF but I want to have a Cushion Capable of picking up more Mileage to help out in times of need. I saw where a Boom of 17 ft is capable of 100 Miles VHF what if it was Increased to 25 ft or 30 ft? What would that pull in UHF wise? I know it will have to be reinforced due to the Length but this could be done I guess?

I think it is entirely possible to make a super antenna. Check out all the stations this guy was able to pull in from Lexington, KY

http://www.dxfm.com/tv_images_digital.htm

Granted he has fancy equiptment and multiple antennas to vary signal strengths and exclude stations to allow him to get past strong local towers to 'see' the distant towers.

I used this page here for the basis of my VHF channel 4 WDKY-DT antenna:
http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html

If you need cheap aluminum, the material I used for my reflectors in my attic homemake antenna came from grounding wire from a satellite dish install kit. Those kits are really cheap at MCMElectronics now:
http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=MCMProducts&product%5Fid=58-9425
http://www.mcminone.com/content/productimages/s4/4012467.jpg

It's the silvery wound-up bundle in the picture. This wouldn't work well outside (it bends easy), but works great for the attic setup I had made. Considering MCM changed their shipping prices recently and made these kits cheap, they are a steal. It's around $7 shipping for orders less than $50, so you can get 8 of these kits for only $7 in shipping (and they are heavy). I'll probably order a few more to run coax all over the house I am about to move into.

nice post Ben!!!!

I live in Mt Sterling and have no problems getting all the Lex channels except WDKY (technically, Danville). I get the analog signal just great from WDKY but not the HDTV. I have only a UHF antenna currently and I am looking at a VHF antenna to get FOX. Has anyone tried the delhi 5y4s yagi? :confused: WDKY claims this is good for their signal. It appears to be a single channel antenna (VHF 4). I thought about making my own, similar to Ben but by the time I buy the amp and the wire, I will probably be in for $30-$40 and the delhi antenna is $50.

Another question = You think I could pull in the signal using an antenna in the attic? I really hate to put up an antenna outside, doesn't look real good. :confused:

One last question (I'm gettin lazy, I know) = is there a "doohickey" that would let me connect the uhf and vhf antennas together and send down one coax cable? :confused:

nice post Ben!!!!

I live in Mt Sterling and have no problems getting all the Lex channels except WDKY (technically, Danville). I get the analog signal just great from WDKY but not the HDTV. I have only a UHF antenna currently and I am looking at a VHF antenna to get FOX. Has anyone tried the delhi 5y4s yagi? :confused: WDKY claims this is good for their signal. It appears to be a single channel antenna (VHF 4). I thought about making my own, similar to Ben but by the time I buy the amp and the wire, I will probably be in for $30-$40 and the delhi antenna is $50.

Another question = You think I could pull in the signal using an antenna in the attic? I really hate to put up an antenna outside, doesn't look real good. :confused:

One last question (I'm gettin lazy, I know) = is there a "doohickey" that would let me connect the uhf and vhf antennas together and send down one coax cable? :confused:

I have the 5 element channel 4 antenna if you're interested. PM me.

It works from here but in the end it was not practical for me to use it and I have two other FOX stations in range.

You need a uhf/vhf diplexer to combine the antennas or an amp such as the CM7777 which has one in it. UHF/VHF diplexer: http://www.picomacom.com/specs/pico/C/C24.pdf

Radio shack has one as well. It's labeled a hi/lo combiner but it's actually vhf/uhf.

The channel 4 antenna is seen in this pic at the very top. You need to put it outside for best performance.

Is there a Website out there where a person can go to to build an Antenna.Step by step what lengths to cut the rods etc. for what specific purposes. I know most is made out of aluminum how good would copper be? Since I know of no place to buy Aluminum to cut to your own size to make an Antenna. I was just wondering how copper will work? You can cut it to the size needed join it together with elbows or connectors even soder (If spelled correctly IF not you know what I am getting at) or Crimp the ends flat. Most UHF Antennas I have looked up ends at 60 Miles or 60 Miles +. There should be an Antenna made to reach the Extreme Deepest of the Deepest fringe Areas. Most UHF Towers where I live is about 85 +/- Miles away for UHF And the Same on VHF. WCPO in Cincy is the Worst to pick up (VHF) others are so so. And on Lexington Nearly Perfect but the Signals vary everynow and then. One time it is lets say 80-85% next time it might be 50% but still a Good Picture but Tiling up or distortion. I want to Make a Antenna Capable of pulling in Stations on UHF upto at Least 100 Miles upto 150 Miles and capable of that VHF or more if needed. Is this possible. IF I or we move to A more remote location I will have to go upon top of a Hill to put up a Antenna and there will be a Great length of wire run probably 1000 to 1500 ft. Unless I can go up 150 or so feet due to being in a Holler. Can a Person Really make an Antenna capable of pulling in Signals 100 Miles will be good for UHF but I want to have a Cushion Capable of picking up more Mileage to help out in times of need. I saw where a Boom of 17 ft is capable of 100 Miles VHF what if it was Increased to 25 ft or 30 ft? What would that pull in UHF wise? I know it will have to be reinforced due to the Length but this could be done I guess?

I wouldn't try to make an antenna for deep fringe reception. You're much better off with using manufactured antennas. Aluminum is preferred because it's lightweight yet strong.

A good start would be the CM 7777 preamp and separate UHF and VHF antenna sections. In general, the higher up the better and yes being on a hill will help a great deal. Beyond that, you get into antenna stacking, band-specific, and even channel-specific antennas to increase performance. Consistent reception beyond 70 miles requires geographic favorability and may not be possible depending on your location/topography. If you have significant line-of-sight obstruction you may be simply SOL even at distances closer in.

Here's an example of a deep fringe antenna specific for UHF ch. 14-40 (top section) and VHF ch. 7-13 (bottom section):

I thought about making my own, similar to Ben but by the time I buy the amp and the wire, I will probably be in for $30-$40 and the delhi antenna is $50.

Not too bad in cost. I bought that amp when it was $20. The twinlead was around $5. Some free pushpins! The sat kit was $5.95, so yeah $30. :D
But unlike that delhji antenna, I have amplification, so I can afford the 50' run of RG-6 to my HD tuners. The antenna works great for a couple other channels as well.


Another question = You think I could pull in the signal using an antenna in the attic? I really hate to put up an antenna outside, doesn't look real good. :confused:


Yep.. that's where my homebrew antenna is. The one I showed pictured tacked to the wood is my newest version. I haven't tried it yet. The original is actually pinned to the wood that makes up the attic braces.

Thanks for the response cpcat. I used to live in Corbin. About 5 years ago. It's hard to believe you can actually pick up WDKY from there. I'm thinking if you can pick it up from that distance I could get it from here. I'm probably 40 miles or so from the tower, your probably 70+ plus you have to deal with the mountains.

You have a heck of a setup on your antennas. My neighbor (or my wife) would probably shoot me if I put that on my house.

Thanks for the info, I think I will try the delhi antenna unless I can find enough parts laying around for the homebrew antenna. I'll keep everyone posted on how it turns out.

Thanks for the response cpcat. I used to live in Corbin. About 5 years ago. It's hard to believe you can actually pick up WDKY from there. I'm thinking if you can pick it up from that distance I could get it from here. I'm probably 40 miles or so from the tower, your probably 70+ plus you have to deal with the mountains.

You have a heck of a setup on your antennas. My neighbor (or my wife) would probably shoot me if I put that on my house.

Thanks for the info, I think I will try the delhi antenna unless I can find enough parts laying around for the homebrew antenna. I'll keep everyone posted on how it turns out.

FYI my antenna is the Delhi/Jerrold model you are looking for. It would probably be your best chance from Mt. Sterling esp. if you are trying things from the attic first. Delhi makes a 10 element channel 4 as well but it's a monster.

cpcat, did you purchase the delhi 5y4s yagi antenna locally or via internet? Just wondering where I could pick one up fairly quickly and not have to pay shipping.

I'm offering mine to you. Did you get that before?

OK, I scrounged around the shop and found some 14 ga 2 conducter wire(actually 3 wires counting ground). I slapped some wood together and basically duplicated BenCJedi's setup. I had a very old CATV adapter which he calls a "ballun", not sure it is the same thing or not. I tacked the wire to the wood using small nails every 4"-6" and twisted the ends together. Well, I guess you can call me the "world's cheapest guy", the damn thing worked! Not great, but it worked. I sit it outside on my deck and ran a wire to a 22db amplifier I was already using. I am getting about 60-70% signal strength for WDKY, I am about 30 miles away from the tower. I'm not so sure I could put this in my attic and still get a decent signal, but, it sounds like there would be some hope if I had the better antenna. I did not put any "reflector" wire behind the antenna. What kind of percentage increase do you think I should get, Ben? :confused: Also, I ran into a small problem getting the UHF and VHF antennas hooked together. The Radio Shack guy said I should be OK using a standard signal splitter (just in reverse) and I don't need a special combiner. I tried that, I had several laying around at home, and did not get very good results, maybe interference. If I disconnect the UHF, the VHF looks good. Unless the reflectors can help me out, it looks like I am going to have to get a better antenna for the attic.

OK, I scrounged around the shop and found some 14 ga 2 conducter wire(actually 3 wires counting ground). I slapped some wood together and basically duplicated BenCJedi's setup. I had a very old CATV adapter which he calls a "ballun", not sure it is the same thing or not. I tacked the wire to the wood using small nails every 4"-6" and twisted the ends together. Well, I guess you can call me the "world's cheapest guy", the damn thing worked! Not great, but it worked. I sit it outside on my deck and ran a wire to a 22db amplifier I was already using. I am getting about 60-70% signal strength for WDKY, I am about 30 miles away from the tower. I'm not so sure I could put this in my attic and still get a decent signal, but, it sounds like there would be some hope if I had the better antenna. I did not put any "reflector" wire behind the antenna. What kind of percentage increase do you think I should get, Ben? :confused: Also, I ran into a small problem getting the UHF and VHF antennas hooked together. The Radio Shack guy said I should be OK using a standard signal splitter (just in reverse) and I don't need a special combiner. I tried that, I had several laying around at home, and did not get very good results, maybe interference. If I disconnect the UHF, the VHF looks good. Unless the reflectors can help me out, it looks like I am going to have to get a better antenna for the attic.


You will have better luck with a combiner as it filters the U and V from each other... they are not as good a seperate antennas but it should work....Check out the ARRL website for details on how to figure the lengths for the reflector and director..

Insight does not encrypt all the OTA HD. I can pick up CBS and PBS on 72.x. I have a friend that can pick up them all but he can't get his TV to tell him the real channels they are on and my TV does not seem to be able to find them.



fwiw, I re-scanned for cable and currently get the HD versions of NBC,CBS,ABC,Fox and PBS over analog cable via builtin QAM tuner. On my Panny set, the channels are mapped to: NBC 18-1, CBS 27-1, KET 46 1-4 etc.

OK, I scrounged around the shop and found some 14 ga 2 conducter wire(actually 3 wires counting ground). I slapped some wood together and basically duplicated BenCJedi's setup. I had a very old CATV adapter which he calls a "ballun", not sure it is the same thing or not. I tacked the wire to the wood using small nails every 4"-6" and twisted the ends together. Well, I guess you can call me the "world's cheapest guy", the damn thing worked! Not great, but it worked. I sit it outside on my deck and ran a wire to a 22db amplifier I was already using. I am getting about 60-70% signal strength for WDKY, I am about 30 miles away from the tower. I'm not so sure I could put this in my attic and still get a decent signal, but, it sounds like there would be some hope if I had the better antenna. I did not put any "reflector" wire behind the antenna. What kind of percentage increase do you think I should get, Ben? :confused: Also, I ran into a small problem getting the UHF and VHF antennas hooked together. The Radio Shack guy said I should be OK using a standard signal splitter (just in reverse) and I don't need a special combiner. I tried that, I had several laying around at home, and did not get very good results, maybe interference. If I disconnect the UHF, the VHF looks good. Unless the reflectors can help me out, it looks like I am going to have to get a better antenna for the attic.

A channel 4 dipole will at best give you 2db gain and probably no less than 70 degree beamwidth. This may work close in with line of sight but probably not otherwise.


If you want to try a real antenna for low band go pick up a CM 3016 at Lowe's. Return it if it doesn't work. .

Be sure you read my prior replies to you here. Re: uhf/vhf diplexer.

I moved to a house in Winchester (from Lexington) starting the middle of last week. I just now finally have my computers setup (HD tuner cards) with my latest wireloop antenna discussed several posts back. I have boxes everywhere and can't find much of anything else, but I am moved (and dead tired).

Anyhow to my amazement WDKY-DT (FOX) is AWESOME out here. My wireloop is pulling in 81% signal with a channel master 3044 amp from Lowes. Unlike Lexington I did not jump through ANY hoops to achieve this signal AND the antenna is not even in the attic NOR am I using ANY reflectors to draw signal to the antenna. The best signal in Lexington I could get was 58% for WDKY-DT (on average) and that was with ALOT of effort in the attic with positioning/adding reflectors/more positioning/changing cables/doing the hokey pokey. I spent easily a month of rigorous figgiting to achieve that signal and it glitched all the time. Out here in Winchester the signal is SUPER stable. I am now exactly 25 miles west of where I lived in Lexington, about the same distance from the WDKY-DT tower, but in the opposite direction. I am not complaining.. I was really worried I would lose FOX in HD by moving out to Winchester. Adelphia doesn't carry WDKY-DT. I have been pleasantly surprised with my OTA results from INSIDE the house (without even using the attic).

Just thought I would report my results out here. The results of the Lexington locals look like this with the MyHD MDP-120 HD tuner card in Winchester:

WDKY-DT: 81%
WTVQ-DT: 100%
WLEX-DT: 100%
WKYT-DT: 100%
WKLE-DT: 26% (I need to do some figgiting of my other antenna for optimal position)
PAX: 12% (no lock)

You should be able to get KET (6 channels) also at least 80%. You are a little closer than I am. Also, you are getting better signals because you are sitting right on top of WKYT and WTVQ, you may even be closer to WDKY tower. WKYT and WTVQ are located about 10 miles outside Winchester (towards Lexington) and WDKY is probably 15 miles away from where you are (their tower is near Clay's Ferry Bridge on I-75). Plus you are away from all the noise in Lexington.

You should be able to get KET (6 channels) also at least 80%. You are a little closer than I am. Also, you are getting better signals because you are sitting right on top of WKYT and WTVQ, you may even be closer to WDKY tower. WKYT and WTVQ are located about 10 miles outside Winchester (towards Lexington) and WDKY is probably 15 miles away from where you are (their tower is near Clay's Ferry Bridge on I-75). Plus you are away from all the noise in Lexington.

Yes, I know all this. :)
I went so far as to calculate 1-degree of difference in longitude from my existing position to WDKY-DT tower at Clays Ferry. I am 1-degree closer at my Winchester home. My wife thinks I am a geek for pointing out these towers and discussing signal propagation. :)

This site can be used to calculate your longitude and latitude
http://www.juggling.org/bin/do/map-find?

Edit: Yes the noise factor I am sure was a big factor in the hinderence in signal in Lexington. I lived behind the Fayette Mall and always suspected that power cap block right next to the fire station by the train tracks could have contributed to the signal glitches I was seeing. Of course WDKY-DT being on low band VHF is affected by so many electric devices (shavers, vacuums, etc) so it was really easy for that signal to be tripped up.

What do you guys think of the CM3016? Will that pull all of the local stations from MOW and Harrodsburg? I'm up on a pretty good hill.

This site can be used to calculate your longitude and latitude
http://www.juggling.org/bin/do/map-find?

.


This one's better: http://terraserver.microsoft.com/

Just put in your address and go. A few hundredths of a decimal doesn't matter but it's neat to see an aerial photo of your own house.

For arial photos I use

http://local.live.com/

My house is so new that the development did not exist when any of the photos were taken. Only the USPS.gov website has my street address in their database.

Anyone else noticing WKYT is showing different things on 27 analog and 27-1 digital right now? I think someone hit the wrong button. I guess no UK game in HD for us today.

Anyone else noticing WKYT is showing different things on 27 analog and 27-1 digital right now? I think someone hit the wrong button. I guess no UK game in HD for us today.

The UK game wasn't available in HD anyway. As far as I'm concerned, it's a good thing when WKYT chooses to pass the live CBS HD feed instead of pre-empting it for BB. Enjoy it while it lasts. 2009 will be here before you know it. :)

Anyone else notice WDKY-DT off the air tonight? Probably not.. everyone was watching the UK game. :)

Just making sure my equipment is ok, but I am currently getting 0% FOX.

WDKY-DT was off the air a few days ago too - so it doesn't surprise me.

Probably not.. everyone was watching the UK game.

Actually, I was too busy watching the new Dr. Who and Monk to notice. FOX is usually dead to me on Fri nights anyway. :D

No FOX for me either last night.

However , on a positive note I called and spoke to an engineer at 36 a couple of weeks ago concerning the .1 subwoofer channel not being present and he said he would look into it. Last night the .1 channel was present, so it must have not been a very hard thing to fix.

WDKY analog is down this morning too ... Perhaps the FCC finally approved their request to rotate the analog antenna. ???

Perhaps the FCC finally approved their request to rotate the analog antenna. ???

They did. On 1/26/2006. See here :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=64017

Detailed info available via the "application" link next to the 1/26/2006 date, including technical documents attached to the application.