DTV Dave,
I see the problem constantly. I get a signal strength of 85 on 13. No problems on 24 with a signal strength of 76. I think it has to be some sort of interference as I have had a great picture on 13 since you got your signal strength up to full power. Being further from the transmitter would naturally add more opportunity for something to degrade the signal, I guess.

My antenna feed has been disconnected since August, but I'll hook back up tonight to see what I get in the Memphis University School area. I've been meaning to check out this season of House anyway.

Chase

I moved our stream analyzer to the transmitter site and connected it directly to the transmitter output, and everything looks great. There must be something external to the transmitter causing this, but I'm not sure what. There is the possibility of two other channels mixing together in a way to put interference on our channel, but we haven't noticed this before. Also, it's not like someone new just came on the air! There is a new wireless Internet service that uses the unused UHF channels. One wanted our approval to operate on channel 54, but we refused to waive our interference protection since our calculations showed that they could interfere with us. It might be someone else that we don't know about.

After Wednesday, we'll dump the transmitter off at various times during the day so that we can sniff around with a spectrum analyzer to see if there is something out there on our frequency (we can't see it with the transmitter on). I'll let everyone know what I find. It's interesting to note that mx6bfast has the problem since he is pretty close to the transmitter.I just finished watching Standoff and House OTA, including commercials (well, most of them). The signal was clean the entire time -- no break-ups, drop-outs or stuttering in audio or video. Signal strength was rock solid on 93%. DD DialNorm was 25 for the network feed and 23 for local spots.

Signal flow:

Antennas Direct DB-4
50' RG-6
DirecTV H10
6' HDMI
Sony KDL-46XBR2

Chase

I just finished watching Standoff and House OTA, including commercials (well, most of them). The signal was clean the entire time -- no break-ups, drop-outs or stuttering in audio or video. Signal strength was rock solid on 93%. DD DialNorm was 25 for the network feed and 23 for local spots.
I echo Chase, no issues during House.

But man can WHBQ stop or at least turn down thevolume on the Resorts Casino commercial?

Must be a distance issue then. I no longer get any clean content from WHBQ.

I was still seeing pixelation and lost signals last night, as well.

I was seeing the flickering again last night during Bones. It was in the last minute of the show. I recorded it on my pc upstairs and I'll see if I can see it there.

Yep saw it on my pc upstairs also.

SEC game looks nasty. ugh! FAR FAR FAR inferrior to WPTY.

I got a new HD! Nothing fancy, It's a decent TV, and it was cheap. My brother camped out at Wal-Mart on Black Friday for the $474 RCA 52-inch. The overscan is TERRIBLE though. It cuts off words on the menus for my 8300HD, and when I try and correct the overscan, the picture bands pretty badly. Hopefully I can get it calibrated.

It's been kinda quiet recently. I guess it's that time of the year.
Of the little Fox I have watched, I haven't noticed any of the flickering.

By the way, is anyone in the thread going to CES this year?

I got a new HD! Nothing fancy, It's a decent TV, and it was cheap. My brother camped out at Wal-Mart on Black Friday for the $474 RCA 52-inch. The overscan is TERRIBLE though. It cuts off words on the menus for my 8300HD, and when I try and correct the overscan, the picture bands pretty badly. Hopefully I can get it calibrated.
Not a bad deal. Was it an RPTV? I think fine green will help straighten that out. I know BB had a 52" RPTV for $799 last Friday. I think it was a Panasonic or Pioneer?

My wife's parents are looking at getting HD and was asking me about the Visio tv's. Does anyone here have one or know anyone that has one? Are they pretty good. I figure the technology now is better even for low end HDTV's compaired to 4 years ago when I got mine.
By the way, is anyone in the thread going to CES this year?
I was actually wondering yesterday when I saw the info on the main forums page and was wondering if you were going? Last year when you were gone WHBQ-DT went up, what would you bring us back this year?

My vote goes for turning off the subs on WREG and WMC during HD programming. Or CBS will buy WREG and make it an O&O.

Not a bad deal. Was it an RPTV? I think fine green will help straighten that out. I know BB had a 52" RPTV for $799 last Friday. I think it was a Panasonic or Pioneer?

Yep, RPTV. I've calibrated them before, but this is the first one I have owned. At $474, you just can't beat it price wise.


My wife's parents are looking at getting HD and was asking me about the Visio tv's. Does anyone here have one or know anyone that has one? Are they pretty good. I figure the technology now is better even for low end HDTV's compaired to 4 years ago when I got mine.

I know someone who has one. The PQ is decent. The one they have is a plasma, and I'm not a big fan of plasmas to begin with though. Which model are you looking at?



I was actually wondering yesterday when I saw the info on the main forums page and was wondering if you were going? Last year when you were gone WHBQ-DT went up, what would you bring us back this year?

My vote goes for turning off the subs on WREG and WMC during HD programming. Or CBS will buy WREG and make it an O&O.

LOL! If only our CBS would go O&O. Maybe it'll happen. I'll try my hardest to bring back something good. ;) This will be my fifth CES. I can't believe I have been going that long.

It's only my second AVS Forum party though. Last year was a BLAST. They had the Blues Brothers and everything. I actually ended up spending the night sitting next to Scott from Satelliteguys.US. Maybe this year I'll bump into someone from Raycom or the NYT (or whomever is going to be owning WREG.)... :)

aaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I would like to have my teeth pulled with pliers rather than watch Sunday Night Football on NBC... they have the absolute worst HD PQ on the planet. The grass looks more like moss than grass. And it's impossible to follow the ball. I feel like my eyes are always out of focus. :mad:

oh well...

-Chuck

aaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I would like to have my teeth pulled with pliers rather than watch Sunday Night Football on NBC... they have the absolute worst HD PQ on the planet. The grass looks more like moss than grass. And it's impossible to follow the ball. I feel like my eyes are always out of focus. :mad:
I haven't put my tv on WMC for the past 3 weeks for an NFL game for this same reason, and I see it hasn't gotten any better. But I guess I should've figured that out since WMC was able to make the golf tournament on earlier yesterday look terrible.

I went to Best Buy yesterday and was in the tv section and they had the Titans/Colts game on quite a few of their tv's. OMG! And I thought my tv's at home looked terrible. I was checking and they were hooked up with component, but the blocking was off the charts.

How can stations be proud of that?

I know someone who has one. The PQ is decent. The one they have is a plasma, and I'm not a big fan of plasmas to begin with though. Which model are you looking at?
I don't know which one they were looking at, my wife just mentioned that model of tv.

DTV Dave,

I don't know whether this will help or not, but the interruption to the signal is complete. By this I mean when I watch the signal strength meter, it will fluctuate between 78 and 84 for anywhere from 1 minute to 3 minutes then fall to 0 fo a few seconds. Then the process repeats itself. Hope this helps.

I don't know which one they were looking at, my wife just mentioned that model of tv.

You already know this I'm sure, but never trust the PQ in-store. :) The Visio my friend had looked decent in the store, and it's better since I calibrated it. The thing that bugs me about the TV is that it almost has a hazing effect. It's as if everything is a bit blurry, like there's a mist over the TV. It just doesn't seem to be as crisp and sharp as it should be.

A no-name HD can provide a decent picture. My Insignia CRT for example is actually a Toshiba TV, rebranded as an Insignia by Best Buy. Find a few model numbers, do a bit of research, and you should be able to make a good decision.

My advice would be to buy from Costco. They give you a long, long time to return the item. So you can really test it out before you decide if you want to keep it.

I'm having some trouble with my antenna and can't figure out what's going on. I was hoping ya'll could help me figure out what the problem is.

Here's the facts:


I live near Yale and Old Brownsville in 38135
I have a Samsung HL-S5687W DLP HDTV
I have a Channel Master 3010 Antenna
I have a Channel Master 7777 Preamplifier
All the coax in my house is brand new Belden 7915A RG6 (solid copper core, tri-shield)
All the coax connectors are either T&B Snap-N-Seal or Ideal compression connectors
All the wall plates use Leviton QuickPort gold plated coax connectors
I have marginal signal on all HD stations, which is why I bought the antenna. That didn't seem to help much, which is why I bought the preamp. I'm still having problems.


Here's what's going on (using WREG as an example... but I have problems with all channels):

With nothing connected to the TV, I get ~50% on the signal meter for WREG. I have signal drop out problems.

With the Channel Master 3010 in the attic above my living room, which is connected to the wall plate with a ~16ft piece of coax, which is connected to the TV with a ~3ft piece of coax, I get ~50% on the signal meter for WREG. I still have signal drop out problems.

With the Channel Master 3010 in the attic above my garage, which is connected to the Channel Master 7777 with a ~1ft piece of coax, which is connected to the Preamp power supply with a ~30ft piece of coax, which is connected to the wall plate with a ~50ft piece of coax, which is connected to the TV with a ~3ft piece of coax, I get ~0% on the signal meter for WREG. I get no signal at all.

WREG is broadcast on UHF channel 28 at 554MHz. I calculated the signal attenuation of 554MHz for ~84ft of coax at no more than 5dB. I have no idea what the insertion loss of the connectors on the Channel Master 7777, Preamp power supply, or wall plate are, but they couldn't possibly be much. The Channel Master 777 provides 26db of gain, which should more than make up for the signal loss of ~84ft of coax and the insertion loss of each of the connectors.

I have 3 coax drops from my distribution point to my living room. I've tried connecting the antenna to all three, but the outcome is the same. I have not yet replaced the connectors or the cable between the antenna and distribution point.

So...

Could my problem be with my cable? connectors?

Could the antenna itself be non-fuctional?

Could the preamp and/or power supply be non-functional?

I'm going out of my mind trying to troubleshoot this. Any help ya'll can provide would be very appreciated.

Thanks a bunch,

Paul

Have you tried using a different antenna?

Have you tried using a different antenna?

I have an RCA set-top antenna that doesn't help. I still only get ~30% to ~50% with pixellation and signal dropout.

I do have a UHF only directional antenna I could put in the attic in place of the Channel Master 3010. It'll be a bit tough to aim it since I don't have any help.

I'm going to put new connectors on the antenna cables tomorrow. If that doesn't help, I'll try the directional UHF antenna.

Silly question... which way do I point these darn things? I have the end of the 3010 with the short blades pointed toward the towers. Is that right? What about the UHF only antenna?

Here's the Channel Master 3010 (http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/antennas_outdoor_specialmarket.html)

My UHF only antenna looks like this one (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&origkw=antenna&kw=antenna&parentPage=search).

My guess would be that you are getting a strong signal with some multi-path interference. Since you get less signal with a pre-amp than without, that suggests that the pre-amp is being overloaded by the strong signal. The rule of thumb (not 100% accurate of course) is never use a pre-amp within 20 miles of the transmitter.

And, yes, the short elements of a UHF antenna are directors, and should be pointed toward the transmitter. Same is true for the stealth antenna. Does the 3010 have an amp built in? If yes, that would explain why you are having trouble with it. Then if you ad another amp, you will certainly kill the signal.

I am not too far from you i'm near old brownsville and Austin Peay. I had problems for months and yesterday I solved all my problems. I had the antenna backwards, so I spun it around and pointed it up slightly. Now every channel I was trying to get comes in great. I don't know what kind of antenna I have, it came with the house, but there are no amps. You are within 10 miles of all the towers, I would try pointing your antenna towards channel 50 at Yale and Brother Blvd, it looks like its in the middle according to antennaweb.org

My guess would be that you are getting a strong signal with some multi-path interference. Since you get less signal with a pre-amp than without, that suggests that the pre-amp is being overloaded by the strong signal. The rule of thumb (not 100% accurate of course) is never use a pre-amp within 20 miles of the transmitter.

Multi-path interference did cross my mind. :) As for getting less signal with the pre-amp than without... If the antenna (3010) is above my garage (which is on the south side of my house with a clear view of the south-east) with 80-something feet of cable to the TV, I get 0% with the pre-amp and 0% without. The only way I can get any signal with the 3010 is if I put it above my living room with about 17 feet of cable to the TV. But doing that gets me exactly the same signal (30% - 50%) as when no antenna is connected at all. That's what's confusing me.

I want to put the antenna above the garage and feed my distribution point so I can split the antenna feed to four rooms. I figured I could make up the attenuation from the cable and 4-way splitter with the preamp. But if the preamp isn't necessary or is causing problems, I certainly don't have to use it.

And, yes, the short elements of a UHF antenna are directors, and should be pointed toward the transmitter. Same is true for the stealth antenna. Does the 3010 have an amp built in? If yes, that would explain why you are having trouble with it. Then if you ad another amp, you will certainly kill the signal.

Good. At least I'm pointing them the right way. :) My 3010 does not have a built-in amp.

...

I'm going to work on it some more today.

Thanks,

Paul

I reactivated an older HDTivo last week and am having to get it replaced because the hard drive is bad. So far it's still doing a clear and delete all since Thursday night at 9 pm. I asked to be sent an HDTivo since OTA is not enabled in the D* HD-DVR yet. Even though I knew it was, has anyone in this area ad theirs activated yet? I know it is a slow rollout for the software download to enable it.

They also told me I could keep the HDTivo since I paid for it, but the lady yesterday said I had to return it. I paid for this thing I'm not gonna return it.

I reactivated an older HDTivo last week and am having to get it replaced because the hard drive is bad. So far it's still doing a clear and delete all since Thursday night at 9 pm. I asked to be sent an HDTivo since OTA is not enabled in the D* HD-DVR yet. Even though I knew it was, has anyone in this area ad theirs activated yet? I know it is a slow rollout for the software download to enable it.

They also told me I could keep the HDTivo since I paid for it, but the lady yesterday said I had to return it. I paid for this thing I'm not gonna return it.

My HR20 has not yet received the update to enable OTA.

If I understand Earl over at DBSTalk.com, only some people in PST current have the update. D* is waiting to see how that goes before pushing the update to MST, CST, and EST. I'm hoping to get it early next week, but "sometime next week" is probably more accurate... if all goes well.

I went ahead and cancelled Comcast yesterday, as my billing cycle starts on the 11th and I wanted to keep from having to deal with a pro-rated credit. So I hope I don't have to wait too long to start watching OTA on my HR20 (WREG in HD to be specific).

Paul

Here's an update.

I replaced all the compression connectors on the coax between the antenna and the TV, including the ones connected to the inside and outside of the wall plate. No change in signal was observed. I still get a max of ~50% on WREG.

I also noticed that there is absolutely no difference in the signal with or without the preamp. Weird.

I then replaced the Channel Master 3010 antenna with my directional UHF antenna and saw absolutely no difference in signal. Still get a max of ~50% on WREG.

With the directional UHF antenna, I still noticed absolutely no difference in the signal with or without the preamp.

Even weirder... Without any antenna connected to the TV at all (coax disconnected from the wall, but not from the TV), I still get a max of ~50% on WREG.

I just don't get it. None of this makes sense to me.

Just for added info, here's what I get on the other stations.

Channel Master 3010
3: ~50%
5: ~40%
10: ~50%
13: ~50%
24: ~50%
30: ~50%
40: ~10% (I do get this channel when the 3010 is above my living room)
50: ~50%

Directional UHF:
3: ~50%
5: ~40%
10: ~40%
13: ~50%
24: ~50%
30: ~20%
40: 0% (I do get this channel when the 3010 is above my living room)
50: ~50

I just noticed that the Low Noise Amplifier was turned on for all the channels on my TV. Turning it off does absolutely nothing to the signal.

I'm completely confused. :( What else can I try?

I only have one piece of equipment with an ATSC tuner (my TV), so I can't try anything else without spending a bunch of cash.

I can get all the channels, but can't seem to get rid of the pixellation and occasional dropouts. Can this even be fixed?

Thanks,

Paul

I replaced all the compression connectors on the coax between the antenna and the TV, including the ones connected to the inside and outside of the wall plate. No change in signal was observed.

Even weirder... Without any antenna connected to the TV at all (coax disconnected from the wall, but not from the TV), I still get a max of ~50% on WREG.That tells me you are getting a strong signal at your house, and that you either have a break in you coax (either the signal wire or the shield would do it), or one or more poorly installed connectors.

First of all, make absolutely sure you have RG-6 connectors with RG-6 coax (or RG-59 with RG-59.) Secondly, make sure you are stripping the coax properly (and using the correct tool - not all strippers are the same!!!) Thirdly, you don't have to get all of the shielding/braiding outside the center core - some of it can go inside, mostly aluminum shielding. Get as little braiding as possible. The most important part is to make sure you have the connector all the way on and that there is no shielding or braiding shorting to the center of the coax. Another possibility is the connection at the antenna. Are you using a proper balun there?

That tells me you are getting a strong signal at your house, and that you either have a break in you coax (either the signal wire or the shield would do it), or one or more poorly installed connectors.

I'm pretty sure the coax drops and connectors to my living room are good. I'm currently using 2 of the 3 for D*, and they seem to be working great. I did disconnect these from the multi-switch and the receiver to reallocate for the OTA. That didn't seem to help.

I haven't yet tried a new run of coax from the antenna to the distribution point in my attic. I did, however, replace the compression connectors on each end. I'll try replacing this run of cable to see if it's the culpret.

First of all, make absolutely sure you have RG-6 connectors with RG-6 coax (or RG-59 with RG-59.) Secondly, make sure you are stripping the coax properly (and using the correct tool - not all strippers are the same!!!) Thirdly, you don't have to get all of the shielding/braiding outside the center core - some of it can go inside, mostly aluminum shielding. Get as little braiding as possible. The most important part is to make sure you have the connector all the way on and that there is no shielding or braiding shorting to the center of the coax. Another possibility is the connection at the antenna. Are you using a proper balun there?

I am indeed using RG-6 cable and RG-6 compression connectors. I'm using an Ideal Industries coax stripper that I've setup specifically for the Belden 7915A that I'm using. It strips 1/4" to expose the center conductor and another 1/4" to expose the shield. When I install the connector, I ensure the dialectric is flush and the center conductor isn't shorting out. Everything looks good to me.

The Channel Master 3010 doesn't have a balun... just a place to plug in a piece of coax. The directional UHF I have does have a proper balun.

I'll post another update once I replace the coax between the antenna and my distribution point.

Thanks for the help.

Paul

I’m posting this to see if anyone be interested in doing a bowl selection contest. Each person gets one entry and the cost is $5 since it is Christmas time. Rules are on the website. I’d like to get a lot of people signed up to do this, so please forward this to your friends and tell them to pass it along.

The site to enter the picks is located at http://www.sugarplumgals.com/bowl_picks.asp

If you have any questions let me know.

Here's a new update:

I've replaced the RG6 and connectors between the antenna and my distribution point in the attic. Unfortunately, I still see no change.

I've tried all new cable, all new connectors, with and without preamp, but still can't get rid of periodic pixellation and dropouts.

Here's how it's currently connected:

Channel Master 3010 Antenna -> ~1ft Belden 7915A RG6 -> Channel Master 7777 Preamplifier -> ~30ft Belden 7915A RG6 -> Channel Master 0747 Power Supply -> ~50ft Belden 7915A RG6 -> Leviton 40831-0BW QuickPort Connector -> ~3ft Belden 7915A RG6 -> Samsung HL-S5687W HDTV

I'm starting to wonder if there's something wrong with the preamp or my television.

:( Paul

Do you have another ATSC tuner you can test with? Another HD stb?

Do you have another ATSC tuner you can test with? Another HD stb?

No, not until D* turns on the ATSC tuners in the HR20.

Paul

No, not until D* turns on the ATSC tuners in the HR20.

Paul
I've got an E86 that I cn let you borrow temporarily to test. If interested send me a pm.

I'm starting to wonder if there's something wrong with the preamp or my television.Possible, but probably not. I think you are missing something that is going to seem obvious once you discover what it is.

You seem to have all the right parts, and tools and know-how to get the job done. Your chain of connections look right. :confused:

When you tested without the pre-amp, did you completely take the pre-amp and it's power supply out of the chain? Not just unplugging the power supply from A/C. Have you brought either of the antenna down from the attic and connected just one coax from the antenna to the TV, with nothing else in between? Do you have more that one coax connected to the TV? Have you checked to be sure the TV is set to antenna and not the satellite receiver?

I know some of these questions seem obvious, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence. Just throwing out some possiblilities to look at. Like I wrote, we've got to be missing something, probably something simple.

I've got a silver sensor you can borrow if you want to hook it up straight to the tv to check it out.

Mike

I have graciously been allowed to borrow a STB to test with. :)

Possible, but probably not. I think you are missing something that is going to seem obvious once you discover what it is.

Well, after hookup up this STB, I've found that my TV's signal strength meter is nowhere near accurate. I've never seen over 5 out of 10 bars on my TV, but the STB shows 100% signal on 3 stations. But that still doesn't explain the fact that I see pixellation and dropouts.

When you tested without the pre-amp, did you completely take the pre-amp and it's power supply out of the chain? Not just unplugging the power supply from A/C. Have you brought either of the antenna down from the attic and connected just one coax from the antenna to the TV, with nothing else in between? Do you have more that one coax connected to the TV? Have you checked to be sure the TV is set to antenna and not the satellite receiver?

When testing without the preamp, I just pulled the plug. That was dumb of me... I should have known better. I'll do it right next time, I promise. :)

I have not connected my Channel Master 3010 or my directional UHF directly to the TV... I've only connected my set top antenna directly to the TV. I'll do that today and see what the outcome is.

I only have 1 coax connected directly to the TV. And I have triple checked to make sure I hadn't made a careless mistake and plugged it into the wrong plug.

Yes, the TV is set to antenna when checking signal strength. If it is not, I cannot access the menu that shows the signal strength.

I know some of these questions seem obvious, and I don't mean to insult your intelligence. Just throwing out some possiblilities to look at. Like I wrote, we've got to be missing something, probably something simple.

I completely understand. I'm no stranger to the "blinding glimpse of the obvious," so I appreciate you pointing out the simple things. :)

As for the "something simple"... it looks like that might be the horribly inaccurate signal strength meter on my TV.

So here's what I'm seeing now with the new STB:

3: 100%
5: 58%
10: 86%
13: 100%
24: 79%
30: 58%
50: 100%

I haven't even begun to fine tune, so I feel that's pretty good. I am seeing signal fluctuation and signal strength dropouts, so that explains why I'm seeing that in the actual program.

According to antennaweb.org, the towers are located at 64°, 114°, 144°, 150°, and 155° from my home. My Channel Master 3010 is supposed to be multi-directional, so should I point it at 110°, which is half way between 64° and 155°? Or should I point it at 64°, which is the tower I'm getting the lowest reading from? Or is there some other logic I should apply? :D

Here's what antennaweb.org say (for reference):


yellow WPTY-DT 24.1 ABC MEMPHIS TN 64° 6.4 miles
yellow WLMT-DT 30.1 CW MEMPHIS TN 64° 6.4 miles
yellow WMC-DT 5.1 NBC MEMPHIS TN 64° 6.4 miles
yellow WPXX-DT 50.1 MNT MEMPHIS TN 114° 4.0 miles
yellow WREG-DT 3.1 CBS MEMPHIS TN 144° 4.6 miles
yellow WKNO-DT 10.1 PBS MEMPHIS TN 150° 6.5 miles
yellow WHBQ-DT 13.1 FOX MEMPHIS TN 155° 4.6 miles


Thanks a bunch!

Paul

I've got a silver sensor you can borrow if you want to hook it up straight to the tv to check it out.

Mike

I'm sure grateful for everyone's assistance and offers!

Mike, I think I've got everything I need to figure this out now, but I'll send you a PM if I the need arises. :D

Thanks,

Paul

Paul,
Since WMC is usually the hardest to pick up, I would favor more in the direction of that tower, same one with WPTY and WLMT, before heading the other way.

Are you still seeing video breakups with the stb? If so which channels?

Paul,
Since WMC is usually the hardest to pick up, I would favor more in the direction of that tower, same one with WPTY and WLMT, before heading the other way.

Are you still seeing video breakups with the stb? If so which channels?

Yep, WMC is the one giving me the most trouble.

Right now...
3 locked at 100. no wavering. no dropouts or breakup.
5 wavering between 51-65. occasional breakup.
10 wavering between 79-93. occasional breakup.
13 locked at 100. no wavering. no dropouts or breakup.
24 wavering between 37-72. occasional breakup.
30 wavering between 37-58. occasional breakup.
50 locked at 100. no wavering. no dropouts or breakup.

I've got to go do some shopping. :( When I get back, I'm going to point the antenna at WMC and see what changes.

I'm pretty optimistic at this point. Ya'll are a great help!

Paul

Well this is interesting. LOL

1) I pointed the 3010 at WMC and didn't really notice any difference in signal strength with the amp completely out of the signal path. It really appears to do a good job at multidirectional reception because it doesn't matter which way I point it... the signal is always about the same.

2) When I put the amp back in the signal path, I noticed no difference at all. How is that possible?

3) I hooked the UHF directional antenna up directly to the TV. While standing in my living room, I could point it in different directions and peak the different channels (even WMC)... but I couldn't get them all at the same time.

I really want to have one antenna that I can feed several rooms with, so I'm not real interested in set-top antennas. I'm reluctant to roof-mount it because I don't want to climb around on the roof or have to deal with grounding it. That's why I chose to go with the attic-mount.

Speaking of grounding. Do you just ground the coax, or are you supposed to ground the antenna and/or the mast?

Should I move the 3010 to another location in my attic? Would that make a difference?

Right now it's at the peak of the roof at the front of my garage, which is at the southeast corner of my house. Since WMC seems to be northeast of me, would it make any difference if I move it to the northeast corner of my attic? What about dead center and as high as I can get it?

:D This is much harder than I expected it to be.

Paul

I think your while system is possessed.

You could try moving your antenna, wouldn't hurt.

I think your while system is possessed.

Yeah, I think you're right.

I don't have enough experience with OTA to know what to do, so it's extremely frustrating fooling around with it.

I hope I'm not bugging ya'll to death. :o

Paul

Paul,

Do you have ductwork in your attic? If so, the signals will "bounce" around which may be confusing your antenna.

Being so close to the towers, you don't need a preamp. It would over attenuate the signal and then the stb will not display the signal strength correctly. This may be why you don't see a change with or without the preamp.

The spread on the towers from your location is 90 deg. A directional antenna (like you have) isn't designed to recieve that type of spread. Until 2009, all of our HD locals will stay UHF (5 and 13 will go back when analog goes dark).

For now, i would suggest somthing like a db 2 antenna. It is a small multi directional UHF antenna.

Even though you might not want to put it outside, depending on what is in your attic, you may not have a choice.

I am much further from the towers than you and I get good reception on all channels (except for the recent 13 dropout problem) with an outdoor antenna mounted at 10' off the ground. No trees anywhere around. From reading the thread, I would suspect the attic mounting as your biggest hurdle. Most of the forums strongly suggest outdoor mounting.

Paul,

Do you have ductwork in your attic? If so, the signals will "bounce" around which may be confusing your antenna.

Yes, I do have flexible ductwork in my attic. :(

Being so close to the towers, you don't need a preamp. It would over attenuate the signal and then the stb will not display the signal strength correctly. This may be why you don't see a change with or without the preamp.

Well, I figured with the roof/shingles, cable length, and splitters all degrading the signal... a preamp would make up for that loss. But it's pretty clear now that it isn't doing much of anything positive for me.

The spread on the towers from your location is 90 deg. A directional antenna (like you have) isn't designed to recieve that type of spread. Until 2009, all of our HD locals will stay UHF (5 and 13 will go back when analog goes dark).

For now, i would suggest somthing like a db 2 antenna. It is a small multi directional UHF antenna.

Even though you might not want to put it outside, depending on what is in your attic, you may not have a choice.

I'm only using my directional UHF antenna for testing. The antenna I'm trying to install permanently is a Channel Master 3010 multidirectional.

I am much further from the towers than you and I get good reception on all channels (except for the recent 13 dropout problem) with an outdoor antenna mounted at 10' off the ground. No trees anywhere around. From reading the thread, I would suspect the attic mounting as your biggest hurdle. Most of the forums strongly suggest outdoor mounting.

I do not want to climb on my roof. But I might be willing to pay someone else to climb around up there for me. :D Are there "Antenna Installers" out there?

Paul

Have you tried the little Zenith antenna? Here it is on Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-ZHDTV1-HDTV-UHF-Digital-Antenna/dp/B00006FXR9/sr=8-1/qid=1165854707/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3941722-6544066?ie=UTF8&s=electronics)

It seems to work for lots of folks, including me. And it's cheap. They have it on the shelf at Sears, and also at BestBuy last time I looked. Amazing performance for the money.

Paul,
I'm not sure where you read that the 3010 is multi-directional but when I looked it up, everything I found stated it was directional. Here's one quote:

"Antenna Aiming
Because the ChannelMaster 3010 is a directional antenna, aiming of the antenna is necessary to provide the optimum reception. Certain orientations seem to work better. This may take a little time, especially if you are working by yourself. Some HDTV receivers have a signal strength meter or indicator to aid you in this effort and a buddy with a walkie-talkie or cell phone can really help. You can also go to http://antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx - enter your address or zip code and get the directional information for aiming the antenna. "

You might not have to get on the roof. You may be able to mount it on an eave where the line of sight is clear of your roof to all towers using something like (you may need larger ones which Radio Shack also has:

Wall Mount (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062035&cp=&origkw=antenna+mount&kw=antenna+mount&parentPage=search)

You will need to ground the mast/Antenna and use a coax grounding connector for the coax. Per the building code, the grounding wire from both MUST attach to your current house ground which is located close to your electric meter. It isn't hard.

I really think you need to get the appropriate antenna before proceeding. The spread on the towers is too great to determine an antenna location to receive all channels with a directional antenna.

With the DB-2 antenna, you could add a small VHF antenna and combine the signals when 5 and 13 revert back in order to receive everything then.

Paul,
I'm not sure where you read that the 3010 is multi-directional but when I looked it up, everything I found stated it was directional. Here's one quote:

"Antenna Aiming
Because the ChannelMaster 3010 is a directional antenna, aiming of the antenna is necessary to provide the optimum reception. Certain orientations seem to work better. This may take a little time, especially if you are working by yourself. Some HDTV receivers have a signal strength meter or indicator to aid you in this effort and a buddy with a walkie-talkie or cell phone can really help. You can also go to http://antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx - enter your address or zip code and get the directional information for aiming the antenna. "

Well... I thought it was. :)

According to the Channel Master Antenna Reference Chart (http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/antennas_general_reference%20chart.html), it's a Large Multidirectional.

The box has Yellow, Green, and Light Green, which according to this link (http://antennaweb.org/aw/info.aspx?page=more_info), is Large Multidirectional. But, like you found, it's described as directional everywhere else I look.

You might not have to get on the roof. You may be able to mount it on an eave where the line of sight is clear of your roof to all towers using something like (you may need larger ones which Radio Shack also has:

Wall Mount (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062035&cp=&origkw=antenna+mount&kw=antenna+mount&parentPage=search)

You will need to ground the mast/Antenna and use a coax grounding connector for the coax. Per the building code, the grounding wire from both MUST attach to your current house ground which is located close to your electric meter. It isn't hard.

I'm not sure if I have clear line of sight from an eave near my power meter. I'll have to take a look. My D* dish, the ariel power line, ariel telephone line, and ariel cable line are all coming in on that side of the house, so I'll have to make sure none of that is in the way.

I really think you need to get the appropriate antenna before proceeding. The spread on the towers is too great to determine an antenna location to receive all channels with a directional antenna.

With the DB-2 antenna, you could add a small VHF antenna and combine the signals when 5 and 13 revert back in order to receive everything then.

I think I'm going to order the DB2 on your recommendation. Thanks for the tip.

Paul

I'm not sure if I have clear line of sight from an eave near my power meter. I'll have to take a look. My D* dish, the ariel power line, ariel telephone line, and ariel cable line are all coming in on that side of the house, so I'll have to make sure none of that is in the way.



Your D* dish should also be grounded. Hopefully, you got a good installer and he did everything correctly.

You can mount the antenna on any eave and install a ground rod below it. However, the new ground rod has to be "bonded" to the house ground. This would entail connecting a wire from your new ground rod to the rod by your electric meter. I think 8 gauge is the recommended size.

Well, I called to have my bad HDTivo replaced and what did D* send me?????







an HDTivo!!!

Now I'm of the phone with Octavia just asking them to put a note on my account, I decided to hang up after 10 minutes. There's a slip that says if you don't return it within 7 days you will be charged $470. All I'm trying to tell them is I wont be able to work on it until this weekend and it will be more than 7 days. Guess I'll call back.

Just saw an ad on Comcast for this.

Coming December 20th to channel 857, MHD.
http://www.mhd.tv/

Just some info here. I called Comcast last night to get the HD tier and was told they has a special and I would get it for 6 mths FREE. Then it would be 6.95 after that. Not a bad call if you ask me :-)

Just some info here. I called Comcast last night to get the HD tier and was told they has a special and I would get it for 6 mths FREE. Then it would be 6.95 after that. Not a bad call if you ask me :-)
Not at all.

Just tried to watch Without a Trace from Sunday night and Channel 3 had it so screwed up. Every time they switched from SD commercials to HD program, the 5.1 was not there. Only very low background. [Edited] Maybe they should watch their own programming. :mad:

Well, I called to have my bad HDTivo replaced and what did D* send me?????

an HDTivo!!!

Now I'm of the phone with Octavia just asking them to put a note on my account, I decided to hang up after 10 minutes. There's a slip that says if you don't return it within 7 days you will be charged $470. All I'm trying to tell them is I wont be able to work on it until this weekend and it will be more than 7 days. Guess I'll call back.
I was sent a SDTivo. I looked at the back and was like, hmmmm, I thought they all had HDMI output. Then once I tried to plug the component cables in I was like son-of-a-----. (no component output) I called back and was told I would get an HDTivo since they were out of the HR20's. Not to mention I said I wanted an HDTivo.

Good times, good times.

I was sent a SDTivo. I looked at the back and was like, hmmmm, I thought they all had HDMI output. Then once I tried to plug the component cables in I was like son-of-a-----. (no component output) I called back and was told I would get an HDTivo since they were out of the HR20's. Not to mention I said I wanted an HDTivo.

Good times, good times.

Well at least they have replacement HDTiVos to send out. :)

Paul

The saga continues... :D

I ordered a DB2 antenna today and should have it tomorrow. Gotta like that.

Hopefully it'll work better than the CM3010.

Paul

Just tried to watch Without a Trace from Sunday night and Channel 3 had it so screwed up. Every time they switched from SD commercials to HD program, the 5.1 was not there. Only very low background. [Edited] Maybe they should watch their own programming. :mad:
I missed this post last night. I tried to watch WAT and deleted the program after a the first commercial break. I sent an email to Ron Walter telling him it's been screwed up. I advise those who got shafted by missing this episode do so also. Maybe we can make them give a crap about their HD channel.

Don't forget, the bowl picks need to be in by the 19th and $5 payment due.

Doesn't someone around here have a D* HR20? I see where they're rolling out the software update that finally activates OTA tuning. Anyone here have that yet, and if so, how to the Memphis channels come in?

Doesn't someone around here have a D* HR20? I see where they're rolling out the software update that finally activates OTA tuning. Anyone here have that yet, and if so, how to the Memphis channels come in?

Yes, I have an HR20... but the update that enables OTA has only been released to people around Los Angeles (with a few exceptions). It will hopefully be released nationwide before too long.

Paul

Paul did you get your new antenna in today?

Paul did you get your new antenna in today?

I sure did. :D I plan on working on it tonight.

Paul

Paul, I think that will be the perfect antenna for you. Try it without that pre-amp first, though.

I sure did. :D I plan on working on it tonight.

Paul
We will all be rooting for ya!

I sure did. :D I plan on working on it tonight.

Paul


Keep us informed as to your progress.

I do like this antenna. It's small and does a darn good job.

Here's what I've found after working on it tonight... (with no preamp)

1) If I plug the DB2 directly into the STB with less than 10ft of cable and position it in my living room, I get 100% on all channels except WMC. Even then, WMC is fairly high. Unfortunately, it's not very steady, so I get some pixellation.

2) If I put the DB2 in my attic, along with a portable TV and the STB (with less than 10ft of cable), I get 100% on all channels except WMC. Even then, WMC comes in fairly well, but still suffers from an unsteady signal... and I get some pixellation.

3) If I leave the DB2 in the attic and connect it to my TV (with 80 something feet of cable), I have the same problems I had with the old antenna. Channel 3, 13, and 50 come in great. The other stations suffer from pixellation.

So...

I can't beleive the length of cable makes that big a difference! This is really good cable and really good connectors. And I've verified there's nothing wrong with the cable.

1) Do I need a distribution amp rather than a preamp?

2) Would the DB4 help pick up WMC better? Would it help overcome the cable length issue?

3) Am I running out of options... will I have to put an antenna on the roof?

I've scouted out possible roof locations, but it's slim pickins. I'll get into that discussion if I run out of options.

Thanks again for the help!

Paul

If anyone has a HR20 and you have been keeping out with the ota rollout on dbstalk, you have a little over 1.5 hrs to "force" the newest software version. Santa (Earl) has delivered a present. I think you have until 1 AM CST. Before you force it read about on dbstalk.

If anyone has a HR20 and you have been keeping out with the ota rollout on dbstalk, you have a little over 1.5 hrs to "force" the newest software version. Santa (Earl) has delivered a present. I think you have until 1 AM CST. Before you force it read about on dbstalk.

Yep. I pulled it down just before 10pm. I'm watching Letterman on my HR20 in HD right now. :D And with my new antenna. :)

Paul

Yep. I pulled it down just before 10pm. I'm watching Letterman on my HR20 in HD right now. :D And with my new antenna. :)
Do you get the same readings using your HR20 tuner that you did above? I noticed you didn't plug the antenna into the stb from the attic. What kind of readings did you get from that?

Did you run the antenna cable 80 ft to the stb and then plug that into the tv? Or use the portable tv?

Paul,
The db4 is more directional and you would lose the advantage that the db2 has.

In the attic (and especially with ductwork), is not the best place. How is your house oriented? Can you connect the antenna outside and run coax through a door / window to see what type of reception you get with it outside?

Have you tested your 80 ft. cable with a multimeter to be sure it isn't shorted? With your distance from the towers, 80 ft. of cable shouldn't be an obstacle. Is this a straight run or do you have it attached to a splitter?

I can't beleive the length of cable makes that big a difference! This is really good cable and really good connectors. And I've verified there's nothing wrong with the cable.
1) Do I need a distribution amp rather than a preamp?
Paul
Given that your 80' of coax (VERY good coax, by the way!) has a loss of just over 4 dB, and the ChannelMaster 7777 has a gain of 26 dB, you probably overload the receiver when you use the amplifier. The closer you can come to offsetting the actual losses with the amplifier the better. If you can get a hold of a lower gain amplifier or a 20 dB attenuator (Radio Shack may have either or both), that might solve the problem. The problem with WMC-DT sounds as if it may be caused by reflections. You may be able to improve it by rotating the antenna with an eye toward eliminating the breakup without regard to the signal level. It's a trial and error kind of thing.

Hope this helps!

Do you get the same readings using your HR20 tuner that you did above? I noticed you didn't plug the antenna into the stb from the attic. What kind of readings did you get from that?

Did you run the antenna cable 80 ft to the stb and then plug that into the tv? Or use the portable tv?

Here's the different setups I tested:

1) DB2 in living room connected to STB in living room (less than 10ft of cable). 100% on all channels except 85-95 on channel 5.
2) DB2 in attic connected to STB in attic (less than 10ft of cable). 100% on all channels except 85-95 on channel 5.
3) DB2 in attic connected to STB in living room (80-something feet of cable). 100% on channels 3, 13, and 50. Anything from 50-90% on channels 5, 10, 24, and 30.
4) DB2 in attic connected to HR20 in living froom (80-something feet of cable). 100% on channels 3, 13, and 50. Anything from 50-90% on channels 5, 10, 24, and 30.

I only used the portable TV while in the attic. I used my Samsung DLP while in the living room.

It looks to me like the cable length is what's killing the signal... which gets me back to why I bought the preamp to begin with... which ended up being the wrong thing to do. :)

Paul

Paul,
The db4 is more directional and you would lose the advantage that the db2 has.

Bummer. :)

In the attic (and especially with ductwork), is not the best place. How is your house oriented? Can you connect the antenna outside and run coax through a door / window to see what type of reception you get with it outside?

My house faces directly south. I can definitely connect the antenna and run the coax out the door. I'll do that tonight for sure.

Have you tested your 80 ft. cable with a multimeter to be sure it isn't shorted?

No, I haven't tested the cable with a meter, but I've run D* down the cable and get a perfect signal. The cable is already in the wall, so I'm not sure of a way to test them with a multimeter.

[QUOTE=hdtvluvr]With your distance from the towers, 80 ft. of cable shouldn't be an obstacle. Is this a straight run or do you have it attached to a splitter?

The cable goes from the antenna to my distribution point in the attic, where is attaches to a coupler (not a splitter at this point). From there it goes directly to my living room where it attaches to the wall plate. The TV, STB, or HR20 connects directly to the wall plate.

Paul

Given that your 80' of coax (VERY good coax, by the way!) has a loss of just over 4 dB, and the ChannelMaster 7777 has a gain of 26 dB, you probably overload the receiver when you use the amplifier. The closer you can come to offsetting the actual losses with the amplifier the better. If you can get a hold of a lower gain amplifier or a 20 dB attenuator (Radio Shack may have either or both), that might solve the problem. The problem with WMC-DT sounds as if it may be caused by reflections. You may be able to improve it by rotating the antenna with an eye toward eliminating the breakup without regard to the signal level. It's a trial and error kind of thing.

Hope this helps!

Dave,

One of the reasons I got the 7777 was because I never saw anything more than 50% on my TV's signal strength meter. I incorrectly assumed the signal was that low. When, in fact, the TV's signal strength meter was very incorrect. Therefore, I'm not using it anymore.

Reflections would certainly explain the jumpy signal and the breakup. I hadn't thought of rotating the antenna while trying to eliminate the breakup. I have just been trying to get a good, strong, steady signal.

Thanks for the tips.

Paul

Here's the different setups I tested:

1) DB2 in living room connected to STB in living room (less than 10ft of cable). 100% on all channels except 85-95 on channel 5.
2) DB2 in attic connected to STB in attic (less than 10ft of cable). 100% on all channels except 85-95 on channel 5.
3) DB2 in attic connected to STB in living room (80-something feet of cable). 100% on channels 3, 13, and 50. Anything from 50-90% on channels 5, 10, 24, and 30.
4) DB2 in attic connected to HR20 in living froom (80-something feet of cable). 100% on channels 3, 13, and 50. Anything from 50-90% on channels 5, 10, 24, and 30.

I only used the portable TV while in the attic. I used my Samsung DLP while in the living room.

It looks to me like the cable length is what's killing the signal... which gets me back to why I bought the preamp to begin with... which ended up being the wrong thing to do. :)
1 and 2 you shouldn't get any video breakups unless you are overloading the stb. I've only seen that once with the stb you are using. Does it stay at those levels for 5 minutes at a time?

3 & 4 you shouldn't be getting video breakups unless it goes below, I think I mentioned ~45%.

Do you have a multiswitch? I'm using a 5x8 powered switch and haven't had any issues.

Something that you might try is connect the antenna to the 10 ft cable and then use a connector to attach that to the 80 ft cable. This might sound strange but it works great for me. On the antenna that I'm not using I was using a 50 ft cable but when I plugged that directly into the multiswitch, I was getting readings all over the place. When I added in a 2 connector "thing" from Radio Shack and then outputted that 3 feet to the switch everything evened out.

For the antenna I'm using now I am only running 25 ft of coax and am still using the same method to get contant readings.

My old antenna is a RS VU-90 XR (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103085&cp=&origkw=antenna&kw=antenna&parentPage=search). If anyone wants to buy it from me I'll get rid of it. I intially paid $100 for it. Paul if you want to test it out let me know and I'll get it down. It's currently in the attic and worked fine except for WMC, but picked up evertying else perfectly.

The problem with WMC-DT sounds as if it may be caused by reflections.

Paul,
This could be due to your ductwork or the roof/walls in your attic.

Let me know how it goes outside.

1 and 2 you shouldn't get any video breakups unless you are overloading the stb. I've only seen that once with the stb you are using. Does it stay at those levels for 5 minutes at a time?

Yes, you are correct. I wasn't getting any breakups with the antenna connected directly to the STB with less than 10ft of cable. And it did stay that way for at least 5 minutes.

3 & 4 you shouldn't be getting video breakups unless it goes below, I think I mentioned ~45%.

I'm seeing pixellation occur even when the signal is as high as 90%. Channel 10 is the worst. I think that may be a multipath issue.

Something that you might try is connect the antenna to the 10 ft cable and then use a connector to attach that to the 80 ft cable. This might sound strange but it works great for me. On the antenna that I'm not using I was using a 50 ft cable but when I plugged that directly into the multiswitch, I was getting readings all over the place. When I added in a 2 connector "thing" from Radio Shack and then outputted that 3 feet to the switch everything evened out.

Interesting. I just spoke to my friend here at work, who's been doing audio/video/data/comm for many many years. And he just told me a story about a problem he had with a cable when it was a very specific length. He said simply adding a few feet to the length made the interference go away.

He also suggested that the 80ft of cable may be picking up interference that is degrading the signal on certain frequencies. He said I should try grounding the shielding.

Paul

Paul,
This could be due to your ductwork or the roof/walls in your attic.

Let me know how it goes outside.

Will do. :)

Paul

Is there a way to bookmark this forum and always link to the last page? I tried using "last" instead of the page number, but that goes to page 1.

Is there a way to bookmark this forum and always link to the last page? I tried using "last" instead of the page number, but that goes to page 1.

I could be wrong, but I think this'll work for you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=167943&goto=lastpost

Paul

I've attached an image I created showing my house and the towers. I thought it might be useful.

Paul

btw...when I said "thing" in my post I meant a 2 way splitter. I was in a hurry to post and had 2 guys waiting for me to get up to go to a product demo.

Hi Guys, I have a question that is not HD related in any way, but figured at least one of this bunch of TV watchers may know the answer.

The Tennessee Lottery has a Holiday commercial they have been playing where the audio is some instrumental (Christmas?) song. Does anyone know what that song is?

TIA!

Is anyone else having any problems with WMC-DT? I am not having any signals issues but the video is breaking up every 10 - 15 seconds? I've been watvhing the signal strength and it hasn't dipped below 79 and no higher than 84.

Hi Guys, I have a question that is not HD related in any way, but figured at least one of this bunch of TV watchers may know the answer.

The Tennessee Lottery has a Holiday commercial they have been playing where the audio is some instrumental (Christmas?) song. Does anyone know what that song is?

TIA!


They have a Holiday commercial? I wouldn't know. I haven't seen but a few commercials since getting my HDTivo over a year ago. :D

Got a new channel lineup in the mail today. Comcast is adding ESPN2-HD and Fox Regional HD, in addition to MHD.

We're also getting Starz on Demand (SD). They are dropping a few channels though. But, HDNet is NOT being dropped!

Is anyone else having any problems with WMC-DT? I am not having any signals issues but the video is breaking up every 10 - 15 seconds? I've been watvhing the signal strength and it hasn't dipped below 79 and no higher than 84. I haven't checked my signal strength but I'm having enough drop-outs that I had to go to my backup recordings on the standard def DirecTivo. Until the other day, I had a very reliable signal.

-Robert

Finally got around to putting the antenna outside in the back yard about 10 ft off the ground and pointed toward the WMC tower. I rotated the antenna until the WMC signal was strongest. There wasn't much change though.

Here's what I get:

3 WREG: 100% rock solid.
5 WMC: Jumps around between 70-80% usually staying around 75%.
10 WKNO: Jumps around between 90-100% usually staying close to 100%.
13 WHBQ: Jumps around between 90-100% usually staying in lower 90s.
24 WPTY: Jumps around between 85-95% usually staying in upper 80s.
30 WLMT: Jumps around between 90-100% usually staying around 95%.
40 WBUY: Jumps around between 80-85%. Smallest amount of jumping around.
50 WPXX: Jumps around between 85-100%. Largest amount of jumping around.

Adding a splitter to reduce the signal by 7.5db doesn't really change the percentages.

When I move it back into the living room, here's what I get:

3 WREG: 100% rock solid.
5 WMC: Jumps around between 69-72%.
10 WKNO: 100% rock solid.
13 WHBQ: 100% rock solid.
24 WPTY: Jumps around between 87-96%.
30 WLMT: Jumps around between 88-95%.
40 WBUY: 100% rock solid.
50 WPXX: 100% rock solid.

Okay, now that just doesn't make any sense. What is this strange voodoo? :confused:

Oh, and my girlfriend objects to leaving the antenna in the middle of the living room on a mast that I slid over a mic stand. Me? I'd kinda like to leave it there. :D

Paul

Edit: Forgot to add...

I still saw pixellation when the antenna was outside, but it wasn't as bad as when it was in the attic. I have seen no pixellation with the antenna in my living room. It's working EXTREMELY well in my living room, but I can't leave it there. I just want a good signal, without picture breakup, from all stations and be able to split the signal to multiple rooms. Is that possible? Or am I dreaming?

Paul,
Based on the photo of your house, mounting 10ft. off the ground in the back yard doesn't take your house / roof and your neighbors house/roof out of the equation.

One other thing that you could try is to remove the screen from the antenna and try without it in the attic and also outside. The screen is there to prevent signals from getting to the antenna from the back (multipath). However, in some circumstances (due to tower location) the antenna can work better with it off.

Paul,
Based on the photo of your house, mounting 10ft. off the ground in the back yard doesn't take your house / roof and your neighbors house/roof out of the equation.

That's true.

You probably can't tell from the picture, but three sides of my one story house's roof are hipped. The front/south side of the house has two gables. So if I were to mount the antenna on an eave of the hipped roof, how long/tall a mast would I need?

One other thing that you could try is to remove the screen from the antenna and try without it in the attic and also outside. The screen is there to prevent signals from getting to the antenna from the back (multipath). However, in some circumstances (due to tower location) the antenna can work better with it off.

That's an interesting idea.

What does multipath look like? Is that what causes a fluctuating signal and picture breakup? Is multipath generally less of a problem indoors?

I guess what I'm getting at is... could multipath be the problem I'm trying to overcome? And if multipath is less of an issue indoors, could that be why I've got really good signals without picture breakup when my antenna is in my living room?

Paul

Yes multi-path can cause picture breakup. What happens is your antenna picks up the intended signal and a reflection that is out of phase with the main signal and strong enough to, at least momentarily, cancel the main signal out. When you move an antenna indoors, both the main signal and the reflected signal are attenuated. Sometimes the reflected signals are attenuated enough that they cannot cancel out the main signal.

Raw signal strength is not extremely important for good digital reception. That is why a in-line attenuator sometimes works well to knock down heavy multi-path enough that it doesn't affect you picture. Overall signal level will be low, but the picture will be steady.

Does anyone know of a local company that could assist with fishing cables down walls? I've kinda run into a snag trying to run 2 new cables down a wall.

I'm trying to run the cables down the wall in between our master bedroom and laundry room. Our bedroom has a 3 tier ceiling. The builders of the home ran the coax cable about 30 extra feet and I finally found where it goes down the wall. The problem is since my ceiling is 3 tiered, I have 3 levels to have to manuever around. I pretty much have 3 boxes on top of each other.

When I found the cable It is under the middle level, which is about 8 inches below the top level. I used a wire clothes hanger and found where the cable disappears. I thought that the cable would've just gone down the wall but it turns and then goes thru another vertical board, then I'm guessing down the wall.

So you have the:
top horizontal board
the middle horizontal board
the bottom horizontal board (ceiling to room)

The middle level is where the coax is run and then goes into a vertical board. There is at least 1 2x4 that is just over a foot below the top level that if I could probably cut thru with my drill but I can barely reach it.

My 2 options are:
Cut a section off the of top and middle boards out that's just big enough for me to manuver around so I can make the hole bigger enough in the vertical board to run 2 extra cables
or
See if someone has a drill bit that can reach down and drill thru the 2.4. Of course I'm not certain that there is only one 2x4 there.

The only bad thing is there isn't much room to move around since where I would need to cut the boards is in between our water heater and downstairs a/c unit. I would think those would be ok since I would just be cutting out a small area. And also because there is that space in between them right now. I would probably use some bigger 2x4's to put those areas cut out back on.

What does everyone else think? Anyone here specialize in this type or thing?

Got a new channel lineup in the mail today. Comcast is adding ESPN2-HD and Fox Regional HD, in addition to MHD.

We're also getting Starz on Demand (SD). They are dropping a few channels though. But, HDNet is NOT being dropped!
If the SD pq was better or par to D*'s I'd probably switch. Have they gotten any better? Does the HD look better than D*'s?

Neil is correct about multipath. Ductwork in the attic, sloped roofs, trees, hills, etc cause reflections which can be multipath if they reach the antenna out of sync with the original signal.

Based on your previous post, you moved the antenna so that you had the strongest signal on 5 and yet only got 75%. I'm not sure what is going on here. As close as you are, you should have been able to get 100% - at least at times.

Regarding the height of the antenna at a gable. If your neighbor's roof is as tall as yours, I would guess that you would need a minimum 5ft. height above your roof. Of course, this is a guess. You could do this in your back yard - just get the antenna about 5 ft. above your roof. How high is your roof peak?

Does anyone know of a local company that could assist with fishing cables down walls? I've kinda run into a snag trying to run 2 new cables down a wall.

I'm trying to run the cables down the wall in between our master bedroom and laundry room. Our bedroom has a 3 tier ceiling. The builders of the home ran the coax cable about 30 extra feet and I finally found where it goes down the wall. The problem is since my ceiling is 3 tiered, I have 3 levels to have to manuever around. I pretty much have 3 boxes on top of each other.

When I found the cable It is under the middle level, which is about 8 inches below the top level. I used a wire clothes hanger and found where the cable disappears. I thought that the cable would've just gone down the wall but it turns and then goes thru another vertical board, then I'm guessing down the wall.

So you have the:
top horizontal board
the middle horizontal board
the bottom horizontal board (ceiling to room)

The middle level is where the coax is run and then goes into a vertical board. There is at least 1 2x4 that is just over a foot below the top level that if I could probably cut thru with my drill but I can barely reach it.

My 2 options are:
Cut a section off the of top and middle boards out that's just big enough for me to manuver around so I can make the hole bigger enough in the vertical board to run 2 extra cables
or
See if someone has a drill bit that can reach down and drill thru the 2.4. Of course I'm not certain that there is only one 2x4 there.

The only bad thing is there isn't much room to move around since where I would need to cut the boards is in between our water heater and downstairs a/c unit. I would think those would be ok since I would just be cutting out a small area. And also because there is that space in between them right now. I would probably use some bigger 2x4's to put those areas cut out back on.

What does everyone else think? Anyone here specialize in this type or thing?

Last time someone gave me a quote on something like that it was about $65 per drop (i.e. per cable). Unfortunately, I can't remember who gave me that quote.

Both Home Depot and Lowes carry bit extensions. For about $20, you could get a 2-foot extension. And you can always use multiple extensions if you need to.

Paul

Based on your previous post, you moved the antenna so that you had the strongest signal on 5 and yet only got 75%. I'm not sure what is going on here. As close as you are, you should have been able to get 100% - at least at times.

Regarding the height of the antenna at a gable. If your neighbor's roof is as tall as yours, I would guess that you would need a minimum 5ft. height above your roof. Of course, this is a guess. You could do this in your back yard - just get the antenna about 5 ft. above your roof. How high is your roof peak?

The peak of my roof is 20ft. Here are some photos that might help:

North Elevation (http://homepage.mac.com/pgfitzgerald/images/North-Elevation.jpg)
South Elevation (http://homepage.mac.com/pgfitzgerald/images/South-Elevation.jpg)
East Elevation (http://homepage.mac.com/pgfitzgerald/images/East-Elevation.jpg)
West Elevation (http://homepage.mac.com/pgfitzgerald/images/West-Elevation.jpg)
Roof Plan (http://homepage.mac.com/pgfitzgerald/images/Roof-Plan.jpg)

They're about 3MB each.

The louvered part on the rear of the roof is probably a great place to mount the antenna, but I have no idea how I'd ground it if it were mounted there.

Paul

Well, I see now how roof mounting would be an issue. 12-12 pitch is pretty steep. Too bad the chimney is on the wrong side of the house. That would have a made a great mounting spot.

Regarding the rear of the house, the louvered part is really all you have to work with unless you used a roof mount like 9013 or 9039

Roof Mounts (http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmhard.htm)

However, I believe I would choose any other way instead of penetrating my roof.

For grounding from that location, you would have to attach it to the mast and staple it to the louvered part and lay the wire on the roof. You would want as straight a route to ground as possible. Based on the layout of your subdivision, I would assume the utility pole is in your or your neighbors back yard and the power attaches to the east side of your house. If this is correct, you would just run the ground wire across the roof down to your house ground - attaching it to the eave and side of the house where necessary.

If you need someone to get up there to attach it, I would go to your local fire station and talk to them. I'm sure they will know of someone that would do this for you. If you had all of the materials available (mount, 5 ft. mast, RG6, ground wire, etc.). it shouldn't take more than 2 hours even with tweaking the antenna.

For grounding, the coax you will need:

Coax grounding block (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2150597&cp=&origkw=coax+ground&kw=coax+ground&parentPage=search)

Attach this to the mast with screws so that it isn't in the way of the wall mount. This can be done beforehand on the ground. By attaching it to the mast, running a ground wire from here will ground your antenna, mast and coax. Use solid 8 gauge wire. You can get it insulated. I'm not sure if code says it must be green (for ground) or not. Therefore, you might get it to match your shingle color to be less conspicuous. However, you may be the only one that sees it on your roof - because you know it's there.

Cut a piece of RG6 long enough (with a few inches of slack) to reach from the grounding block to the antenna at the top of the mast and attach connectors. From the grounding block you can run the coax into your attic through the louver. I would have a piece already running through the louver so it could be attached. Do as much work before hand as possible.

I could be wrong, but I think this'll work for you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=167943&goto=lastpost

Paul

You are right. Thanks! I still wonder why sometimes the page numbers change. Tonight the last page was 137 and earlier it was 204.

You are right. Thanks! I still wonder why sometimes the page numbers change. Tonight the last page was 137 and earlier it was 204.
Do you login with your user id all the time? You could set a default view in the user cp. Mines set at 60 posts per page and on page 69.

I did some more looking around above my master bedroom. Where I would need to drill through 2x4's there are at least 2 of them. Would I compromise the integrity of the wood by drilling 1 - 1 1/2 by 1/2 inch whole in it? I'd say the wood is about 10 inches in length.

If not I'd have to cut out a piece a wood right behind the a/c unit.

Also is there some type of equipment or reader that can detect coax cables in the wall? Kinda like a stud finder?

Has anyone gotten 6.3b on their HDTivo yet?

Has anyone gotten 6.3b on their HDTivo yet?


Not Yet. I have forced several phone calls but nothing yet.

Tonight's NFL game on 5-1 looks terrible, just nasty ugly.

What rate is channel 5 sendings for the game?

Tonight's NFL game on 5-1 looks terrible, just nasty ugly.

What rate is channel 5 sendings for the game?
I usually don't turn on WMC on Sunday nights for the same reason you posted. However I did listen to the game while cleaning up and watch about 5 minutes last week to see if the PQ has gotten better after reading some others posts from other people in other cities that it has. 5 minutes of actually watching was the most I've seen since the first cuple of weeks.

I checked the bitrate last week and the a/v stream was right at 15.5 mbps. That's with audio at 384 kbps. That's actually a little lower since the beginning of the season, which was the last time I checked it.

I did some more looking around above my master bedroom. Where I would need to drill through 2x4's there are at least 2 of them. Would I compromise the integrity of the wood by drilling 1 - 1 1/2 by 1/2 inch whole in it? I'd say the wood is about 10 inches in length.

I am not an architect or structural engineer, so don't sue me if something goes wrong. :D

My opinion: Unless it's a load bearing wall, I wouldn't worry about it. Even if it was a load bearing wall, I'm not sure I'd be worried by such a small hole.

Also is there some type of equipment or reader that can detect coax cables in the wall? Kinda like a stud finder?

I'm not sure if it would work the way you're describing, but IDEAL (http://www.idealindustries.com/dc/TestEquipment.nsf) makes some test equipment that has a tone mode for tracing cables. I've toned cat5, but not coax... and I've never tried to tone through sheetrock, but it may work.

Paul

I am not an architect or structural engineer, so don't sue me if something goes wrong. :D

My opinion: Unless it's a load bearing wall, I wouldn't worry about it. Even if it was a load bearing wall, I'm not sure I'd be worried by such a small hole.

I'm not sure if it would work the way you're describing, but IDEAL (http://www.idealindustries.com/dc/TestEquipment.nsf) makes some test equipment that has a tone mode for tracing cables. I've toned cat5, but not coax... and I've never tried to tone through sheetrock, but it may work.
I was talking to a guy up at work today and he said I should be ok drilling thru the 2x4's. Of course now I have to find a long drill bit to reach it and then find the time to do it.

I’m posting this to see if anyone be interested in doing a bowl selection contest. Each person gets one entry and the cost is $5 since it is Christmas time. Rules are on the website. I’d like to get a lot of people signed up to do this, so please forward this to your friends and tell them to pass it along.

The site to enter the picks is located at http://www.sugarplumgals.com/bowl_picks.asp

If you have any questions let me know.
Don't forget to get your picks in. First game is tomorrow night.

I need to get an HDMI-DVI cable to hookup my HDTivo to our LCD. What websites should I look at to find some cheaper priced cables? I looked at monoprice.com and got this website, http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&style= and specifically this was the cheapest cable, http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023104&p_id=2661&seq=1&format=2&style= . I'm looking for something that isn't expensive, less than $25 but would give me a really good picture. 3 feet would be an ideal length.

Any suggestions?

I need to get an HDMI-DVI cable to hookup my HDTivo to our LCD. What websites should I look at to find some cheaper priced cables? I looked at monoprice.com and got this website, http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&style= and specifically this was the cheapest cable, http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023104&p_id=2661&seq=1&format=2&style= . I'm looking for something that isn't expensive, less than $25 but would give me a really good picture. 3 feet would be an ideal length.

Any suggestions?

There's only two places I'd by cables. Blue Jeans Cable and MonoPrice -- both are forum sponsors. I'm pretty happy with the HDMI cables I bought from Blue Jeans Cable, but I'll probably buy my next set of cables from MonoPrice.

The one you linked to is just fine. :D

Paul

HDMI & DVI cables (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm) 3 ft. here is $15.50 and they make great cables.

HDMI & DVI cables (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm) 3 ft. here is $15.50 and they make great cables.

That's exactly what I have. It is indeed a great cable.

Paul

FYI, for those with HR20s, the official OTA software update is now available for force download. The automatic update is rumored to take place tonight.

I am downloading right now.

Chase

Got a new channel lineup in the mail today. Comcast is adding ESPN2-HD and Fox Regional HD, in addition to MHD.

We're also getting Starz on Demand (SD). They are dropping a few channels though. But, HDNet is NOT being dropped!

They are up and running this morning.

I was talking to a guy up at work today and he said I should be ok drilling thru the 2x4's. Of course now I have to find a long drill bit to reach it and then find the time to do it.

A couple of holes the size you mention won't be a problem in the header. There is a bit called D'Versabit that is about 5' long and quite flexible. Usually you can bend it around enough to get a hole through at pretty close to vertical. You are going to need a pretty good drill motor to get through two 2x4s, probably 1/2". Good luck.

does the receiver have to be connected to a phone line to receive the ota update?
How do you force an update? Are you receivibg OTA stations on your HR 20 now?
Thanks

does the receiver have to be connected to a phone line to receive the ota update?
How do you force an update? Are you receivibg OTA stations on your HR 20 now?
Thanks


Your box should do an automatic download. Mine downloaded the new software at 3:45 am on the 20th.

To force a download press the red button by the access card. When the opening screen appears press 02468.

Does the receiver have to be connected to a phone line to receive the ota update?That I can't answer. Mine was connected to a phone line when I updated it.

Are you receiving OTA stations on your HR 20 now?Yes, and they're doing surprisingly well so far. All channels are stable, with no break-ups, pixelation or indications of multi-path. Let's hope it stays that way.

Signal strength:

WREG 100%
WMC 70%
WKNO 100%
WHBQ 100%
WPTY 93%
WLMT 100%
WPXX 100%

Chase

Argh! I'm getting frustrated.

Ok, I know in between which beams the current rg6 cable goes down. I was able to stick my arm down where the current cable turns and goes into another board before it goes down the wall. I pushed thru the cable that I am trying to feed down and after I pushed thru almost 10 feet it gets harder to push it down. I've only got like 4 to 5 feet of wall to go down.

I've used a stud finder and could tell where the cable is. I then measured how far from the highest level is and it is the same place. Not to mention I used a wire hanger to pull the cable and physically touch and see it. But damn, where is my new cable going?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! I've got an HDTivo begging to get into our room by the time shows start up again in January.

At least one thing good happened, I found an HDMI-DVI cable in my bag of extra cables. Don't know where it came from. I'm guessing it came with my other HDTivo. I'm sure its not the best but it'll do.

Argh! I'm getting frustrated.

Ok, I know in between which beams the current rg6 cable goes down. I was able to stick my arm down where the current cable turns and goes into another board before it goes down the wall. I pushed thru the cable that I am trying to feed down and after I pushed thru almost 10 feet it gets harder to push it down. I've only got like 4 to 5 feet of wall to go down.

I've used a stud finder and could tell where the cable is. I then measured how far from the highest level is and it is the same place. Not to mention I used a wire hanger to pull the cable and physically touch and see it. But damn, where is my new cable going?

I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're talking about... but...

Do you know if it's a straight shot down the wall or are there horizontal 2x4s between the studs? It's not an insulated wall is it?

If you have a steel fish tape ($15 for 25ft at home depot), that might help a lot. It's easy to get the RG6 hung up on something, but if you tape it to the fish tape, it's a lot easier.

Paul

I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're talking about... but...

Do you know if it's a straight shot down the wall or are there horizontal 2x4s between the studs? It's not an insulated wall is it?

If you have a steel fish tape ($15 for 25ft at home depot), that might help a lot. It's easy to get the RG6 hung up on something, but if you tape it to the fish tape, it's a lot easier.
Everything I measure and check all lead to the same clearance area in my wall. I mentioned before that the coax cable disappears into a hole that is against that same clearance in the attic. Right now I don't have to drill any holes anywhere because I was able to find using my hands where the cable was located under the 2nd level of flooring in the attic and follow it to the hole where it disappears. It's close to 2 nails sticking out so I have to be careful. Anyways, I was able to push one of the rg-6 cables you gave me into the hole and then start feeding it into the hole.

That's where I'm getting stuck. I know I'm feeding the cable down the correct clearance in the wall. But when I look in the hole where the existing cable is, I don't see what I fed down.

The only thing I can think is there is a horizontal 2x4 in there. It's not insulated because the water pipes go down the wall right there.

I've got a friend who had some chains he used to fish some cable down. I'll get intouch with him to see if I can borrow it.

Anyone notice that WPTY and WLMT are stretching SD content?

Paul,
Have you been able to resolve your antenna issues?

Anyone notice that WPTY and WLMT are stretching SD content?
I actually noticed that about 30 minutes ago. WTH?? Is there any HD programming on tonight?

I actually noticed that about 30 minutes ago. WTH?? Is there any HD programming on tonight?

They were doing it last night too. I didnt see primetime though, so I cant comment on that.

Maybe their encoder settings are wrong? It stinks, because there is NO WAY for me to unstretch the content.

This happened before on WLMT when their digital encoder went bad. They had to use analog for a few days. But this is going on at both channels. I wont be home for the next 3 nights so I don't know if there is any nighttime HD programming, or daytime for that matter. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon.

Has anyone called about it?

Paul,
Have you been able to resolve your antenna issues?

Because of the the holidays, I haven't been able to work on it. My antenna is still in the living room on a mast attached to a mic stand. It's working great. :)

Paul

WPTY is broadcasting The Sound of Music in HD and in it's proper aspect ratio. (Well, not it's PROPER ratio, but ABC was the one who cropped it to 1.78:1.... Makes no sense to me..) The local commercials are still stretched though.

Maybe their encoder settings are wrong?
I sure hope this is the reason. If not this will majorly suck if they keep it stretched. If I can remember I'll send an email about it Tuesday morning.

Ahhh, nothing like having your dogs barking at the thunder at 5 am and then 20 minutes later your 17 month old wake up and not go back to sleep. Anyways, Merry Christmas to all, and I wanted to post this last night but didn't get the chance.

I spent thousands of dollars on 4 HDTV's, HD stb's, and then for my pc for this?????
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8013/wmc1224061rd1.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc1224061rd1.jpg) http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9489/wmc1224062vi2.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc1224062vi2.jpg) http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6268/wmc1224063gf2.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc1224063gf2.jpg) http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/415/wmc1224064gc1.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc1224064gc1.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7731/wmc1224065ad0.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc1224065ad0.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2873/wmc1224066io3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc1224066io3.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6763/wmc1224067fb9.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc1224067fb9.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1949/wmc1224068lw2.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc1224068lw2.jpg)

Bitrate:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7793/wmc122106vs5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc122106vs5.jpg)

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7379/wreg1224061la6.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224061la6.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6784/wreg1224062pz7.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224062pz7.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/674/wreg1224063al7.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224063al7.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4061/wreg1224064oc0.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224064oc0.jpg) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5069/wreg1224065ev5.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224065ev5.jpg) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7775/wreg1224066ge0.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224066ge0.jpg) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2802/wreg1224067ka8.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224067ka8.jpg) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1707/wreg1224068mk8.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224068mk8.jpg) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7043/wreg1224069rb8.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg1224069rb8.jpg)
Bitrate:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4560/wreg122406fv3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg122406fv3.jpg)

DTV Dave,

Anything new on the dropout problem? 24 is coming and I sure would like to see it in HD.

Anyone having problems watching 805 or 855 on Comcast today? The picture was terrible on 805 at the beginning of the Dallas/Philly game. However it was OK for the second half. The Miami/NYJ game is unwatchable on 855. The picture keeps freezing. I also had issues trying to watch the Heat/Lakers game on 807 earlier. I've had Comcast to my house five different times and I still get lousy HD reception. I'm fairly new to HD and just don't know what else to do as Comcast seems to care little about my frustration.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Update edit: 855 was still hard to watch earlier but is now OK. Just a thought, does anyone think that the recently added HDTV channels on Comcast have reduced/affected the bandwidth of the existing HD channels? I have not had any recent issues with ESPN HD until last evening. BTW, I don't really expect anyone the have advice on dealing with Comcast.

I have Comcast also, and I know that they are not very good, I would demand to talk to a supervisor. Also asking for someone in billing, basically as long as the quality is poor demand that you will not pay for channels you watch that are not viewable. If possible get a ticket number as long as the channel is not viewable tell them that you want to be back dated for the days the service was not viewable.

It might take a lot of phone calls, and maybe to a national Comcast hotline to get people to pay attention, but after a few months of lost revenue for poor service they might catch on. I am sure your not the only customer who complains, and has bad PQ but since I don't really watch any games I have not noticed.

The only problem I have is sometimes my box give me a cannot read bad signal command. Also my standard pvr which is directly to the wire without the box looks like crap. The only hope we have is if Bell South /ATT will start a good build out to give Comcast some competition.

WPTY and WLMT are back to 4:3

I have Comcast also, and I know that they are not very good, I would demand to talk to a supervisor.

I tried asking to speak with a supervisor once. They told me they could have a supervisor call me back sometime in the next 48 hours. I said that was unexceptable. They said, "Sorry." They know we're a captive audience. We don't have any other cable options. I'd like to try sat. but was told by an installer I didn't have a line of site. From reading the forum it doesn't appear the sat. folks are very happy either. Thanks.

From reading the forum it doesn't appear the sat. folks are very happy either.
We need Fios here. Of course that wont make our local channels that multicast look an better. :(

We need Fios here. Of course that wont make our local channels that multicast look an better. :(

I totally agree, we need some competition, what gets me is the other nations such as Korea, and some parts of Europe have outstanding bandwidth. But all we get is what the cable company provides, and that is not much.

It seems that in this marketplace the consumers are not in a very good position, I doubt we will get any decent upgrades for at least 3-5 years. Even if Comcast ups the bandwidth, how many of you actually will see an increase? I have never been able to get more then say 768 mb downloads, even on those test sites I am luck if they report over 1 mb down. Don't even think about uploads, to me until something changes at my house or local node to provide a faster link, such as fiber it will all be hype.

I once had someone from Time Warner try to sell me a business account, I said if he can guarantee the upload speed and the reliability then he would have a customer. I heard a umm, ahh umm, yeah we don't guarantee upload speed. Then I asked him about reliability and he said that business accounts get top priority. We would have a crew on site withing say 4 hours, I said can you guarantee that, he said no, and mentioned something about not paying for non service. Then I said your supposed to to that already, we left it at that. So all in all I would only get a static IP account, and pay more money. I would of also like some answer to IPV6, and other such topics but I knew that they would not even know what that was. You would think that MS would put a lot of pressure to get ISP's to use IPV6 as any device would have a IPV6 address, this would be good news for the RIAA as they then would have certain proof of copy violation.

But then we already knew that, what also gets me is this cable card crap, that is really upsetting. I guess the homebuilt PC could be a thing of the past.

I have just activated the OTA channels on my HR20 and am not able to view channels
5-1, 10-1, 24-1. I get 3-1 and 13-1 fine. Any other HR20 owners having the same problems. I have deleted and tried to re-install but with the same results.

DTV Dave,

Anything new on the dropout problem? 24 is coming and I sure would like to see it in HD.
Everything seems fine at the transmitter site, even using a regular receiving antenna. We shut the transmitter down to check out the signals inside our channel and found nothing that could interfere at our studio site. When I get back on Tuesday, I'll get back on it. It's a strange one!

Is WHBQ-DT transmitter located at the same place as the analog? Antennaweb doesn't have a listing for WHBQ-DT.

According to this FCC (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=whbq&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9) web site, the answer would be yes.

According to this FCC (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=whbq&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9) web site, the answer would be yes.

In that case, I don't think that I have an aiming problem. WREG is at 206 degrees and WHBQ at 205 and I get WREG at 100%. Actually, I get WHBQ at 87 % when it comes in, it just comes and goes.

It's more about tropospheric conditions for me, than aiming. Most evenings I get WREG near 100% and no signal from WHBQ. Then early in the mornings I get WHBQ at near 100% and no signal from WREG. But generally I get much better reception from WREG, may be something to do with WHBQ broadcasting on a much higher frequency.

Is WHBQ at full power?

It's more about tropospheric conditions for me, than aiming. Most evenings I get WREG near 100% and no signal from WHBQ. Then early in the mornings I get WHBQ at near 100% and no signal from WREG. But generally I get much better reception from WREG, may be something to do with WHBQ broadcasting on a much higher frequency.

Is WHBQ at full power?

Are the towers in the same general direction? If you don't know, you can get that info from antennaweb (http://www.antennaweb.org) . I think WHBQ is at full power. They came on in two steps last year, as I recall.

Are the towers in the same general direction?
WREG-DT is off of Whitten. It's right around Bumpus Harley Davidson.

WKNO-DT is on the other side of the interstate. I think it's around Macon Rd. It's the only tower on that side of I-40.

WHBQ-DT is on a road off of Whitten. Go North on Whitten from 40, and then take the left at the first light after you cross over the bridge. Just after the bridge on that street you will see the entrance the tower on the right.

WMC-DT transmits from teh same tower as WLMT-DT and WPTY-DT. They are around 5 miles north of the Wolfchase Mall down Germantown.

PAX-DT, if anyone cares, Is North on Appling from 40. Just after you cross over Stage (64) its on the left.

I also drove by WBUY a few months ago when coming back from Tupelo to Collierville. I don't remember the actual name of the street it is on, but it isn't too far from the MS state line.

Are the towers in the same general direction?Yes, at my distance they are. All are within about 2 degrees.

Yes, at my distance they are. All are within about 2 degrees.
Probably the distance then. I don't know if a preamp would help you or not. I haven't need to try one. Someone here could advise you though.

Yep, it's the distance, and the preamp is necessary. Without it I can't really get much of anything. Not really looking for advise either, was just making an observation. But, thanks.

WHBQ today.
http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/3820/whbq0101072hu2.th.jpg (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101072hu2.jpg) http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/8973/whbq0101071uv6.th.jpg (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101071uv6.jpg) http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/5325/whbq0101073io4.th.jpg (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101073io4.jpg) http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/5644/whbq0101074mr3.th.jpg (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101074mr3.jpg) http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/4577/whbq0101075wm5.th.jpg (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101075wm5.jpg) http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/1184/whbq0101077cv3.th.jpg (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101077cv3.jpg) http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/3618/whbq0101078pe1.th.jpg (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101078pe1.jpg)

Bitrate:
http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/5510/whbqem7.th.jpg (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbqem7.jpg)

WREG:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4651/wreg01010713hg6.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg01010713hg6.jpg) http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1540/wreg01010712aw7.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg01010712aw7.jpg) http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7600/wreg01010711me7.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg01010711me7.jpg) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3769/wreg01010710kj1.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg01010710kj1.jpg) http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7337/wreg0101079si5.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101079si5.jpg) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5549/wreg0101078gg8.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101078gg8.jpg) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4950/wreg0101077sp0.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101077sp0.jpg) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/886/wreg0101076hh8.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101076hh8.jpg) http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2707/wreg0101075nl7.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101075nl7.jpg)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3297/wreg0101074dg7.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101074dg7.jpg) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1120/wreg0101073zg2.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101073zg2.jpg) http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6843/wreg0101072rk7.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101072rk7.jpg) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7798/wreg0101071hb8.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wreg0101071hb8.jpg)

Bitrate:
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1754/wregbn6.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wregbn6.jpg)

WPTY, Capitol One Bowl.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3875/wpty01010710wc6.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty01010710wc6.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/226/wpty0101078yk1.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101078yk1.jpg) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9146/wpty0101077za9.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101077za9.jpg) http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8822/wpty0101076xi0.th.jpg (http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101076xi0.jpg) http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7140/wpty0101075ut5.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101075ut5.jpg) http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/779/wpty0101074vz0.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101074vz0.jpg) http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1341/wpty0101073tm2.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101073tm2.jpg)

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2793/wpty0101072gw6.th.jpg (http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101072gw6.jpg) http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4404/wpty0101071ir8.th.jpg (http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101071ir8.jpg) http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7064/wpty0101070nq2.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty0101070nq2.jpg)

Bitrate:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4615/wptyjg9.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wptyjg9.jpg)

Rose Bowl. Far away cameras don't look real sharp. Field cameras look great. Skycam almost looks upconverted.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7894/wpty101078fn4.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101078fn4.jpg) http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3091/wpty101077tn4.th.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101077tn4.jpg) http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7747/wpty101076kf4.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101076kf4.jpg) http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2141/wpty101075ix4.th.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101075ix4.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8417/wpty101074is5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101074is5.jpg) http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2898/wpty101073go6.th.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101073go6.jpg) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3681/wpty101072bk1.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101072bk1.jpg) http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9565/wpty101071eq4.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101071eq4.jpg) http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5109/wpty101079qe1.th.jpg (http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wpty101079qe1.jpg)

Bitrate:
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4772/wptyae3.th.jpg (http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wptyae3.jpg)

Last night's Fiesta Bowl much better than the Cotton Bowl.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4031/whbq01010713zk9.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq01010713zk9.jpg) http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7193/whbq01010712wo8.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq01010712wo8.jpg) http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/6/whbq01010711hk0.th.jpg (http://img487.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq01010711hk0.jpg) http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2582/whbq01010710ot6.th.jpg (http://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq01010710ot6.jpg) http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3883/whbq0101079pj0.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101079pj0.jpg) http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1268/whbq0101078ca6.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101078ca6.jpg) http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8084/whbq0101077go5.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101077go5.jpg)

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6897/whbq0101076ic6.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101076ic6.jpg) http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6711/whbq0101075jh4.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101075jh4.jpg) http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8684/whbq0101074ty0.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101074ty0.jpg) http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1773/whbq0101073yh1.th.jpg (http://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101073yh1.jpg) http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/313/whbq0101072mk8.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101072mk8.jpg) http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6461/whbq0101071in7.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbq0101071in7.jpg)

Bitrate:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1678/whbqld0.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whbqld0.jpg)

It's more about tropospheric conditions for me, than aiming. Most evenings I get WREG near 100% and no signal from WHBQ. Then early in the mornings I get WHBQ at near 100% and no signal from WREG. But generally I get much better reception from WREG, may be something to do with WHBQ broadcasting on a much higher frequency.

Is WHBQ at full power?
WHBQ-DT is operating at full power (1 MegaWatt ERP), and the transmitter is located at 35-10-28.9 N, 89-50-42.3 W. The digital antenna is just below the top of the tower structure (the analog antenna is actually a mast on top of the tower). It was occasionaly operating at 50% power early last week to troubleshoot an abnormal meter reading (it turned out to be a bad meter!). We try to avoid doing things like that during prime time.

Hey DTV DAVE, so there has been no changes to the tower or equipment in the last two months? Last year when Fox went HD, the picture was great with no problems, but for the last two months I am experiencing the same issues as others with the picture constantly dropping. No problems with other stations, I am using a pre amp antenna, and its location has not moved. It is a strong signal for about 10 seconds, like 95% then it drops below 70% and the picture gets scrambled, then it will come back to 95%, then a few seconds later, it will drop to zero. I have not changed anything on my end, do you have any suggestions. As you know the bowl games are this week, and 24 and Idol start in two weeks. Thanks

My Dad lives near Pickwick. With a large antenna, rotor, and amplifier, I can pickup my locals here in memphis on a conventional TV. Do Y'all think Digital signals will get that far? (65 - 70 miles as the crow flies)

Thanks Guys

Hey DTV DAVE, so there has been no changes to the tower or equipment in the last two months? Last year when Fox went HD, the picture was great with no problems, but for the last two months I am experiencing the same issues as others with the picture constantly dropping. No problems with other stations, I am using a pre amp antenna, and its location has not moved. It is a strong signal for about 10 seconds, like 95% then it drops below 70% and the picture gets scrambled, then it will come back to 95%, then a few seconds later, it will drop to zero. I have not changed anything on my end, do you have any suggestions. As you know the bowl games are this week, and 24 and Idol start in two weeks. Thanks
Where are you located? There seems to be some issue with instability for those outside of the immediate Shelby County area. We can see the affects of it at our studio, but not at our transmitter, and we haven't had any luck in tracking down what is causing it. The disturbance is not bad enough at our studio to cause our receivers to unlock, but the further out you are, the more critical stability becomes. We suspect some kind of interference, but haven't been able to see anything on our frequency when we shut the transmitter down. We're still working on it, and the more information we get, the better! Thanks,

Thanks for your response. I live in Cordova around the Walnut Grove Lake area. I am not that far from the tower. Yes it sounds like interference. I know some local tv stations have been putting in new weather radar equipment, could this be a factor? Thanks for your help

If we could only be as lucky....http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=780123

Where are you located? There seems to be some issue with instability for those outside of the immediate Shelby County area. We can see the affects of it at our studio, but not at our transmitter, and we haven't had any luck in tracking down what is causing it. The disturbance is not bad enough at our studio to cause our receivers to unlock, but the further out you are, the more critical stability becomes. We suspect some kind of interference, but haven't been able to see anything on our frequency when we shut the transmitter down. We're still working on it, and the more information we get, the better! Thanks,


Hey, I'm new here but I'm having the same exact problem. Great signal then drops to 50-60 then back to 89-95 then loses lock. I'm in Midtown using a triple UHF bowtie panel antenna on the roof with a preamp. All other channels fine execpt Fox.

Last night I hooked up a UHF bowtie to the back of my HD receiver upstairs and it found all the local HD and had the same problem with Fox. Two diferent HD receivers on two seperate antennas and same problem with FOX.

HTH

Click Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/05/business/media/05times.html?ref=business) to read the NYT article.

Paul

Looks like WREG was NYT flagship station being the first one they purchased. If Oak Hill had other stations maybe we could get a feel for the multicasting aspect, but they don't own any other ones.

Last night I hooked up a UHF bowtie to the back of my HD receiver upstairs and it found all the local HD and had the same problem with Fox. Two diferent HD receivers on two seperate antennas and same problem with FOX.

HTH

I'm in Midtown as well (near Overton Park) and have no problems with Fox. I just helped my son hook up a new TV with a cheapo pair of powered rabbit ears from Home Depot and he gets everything with no dropouts (Cooper Young area).

Did you say you have a good signal then it drops to nothing? If so that sounds more like a multipath issue (interference from a bouncing signal). Try rotating (or even better moving) the antenna until the signal remains steady, even if this causes the signal to decrease. If you are using a preamp, try removing it to see if that helps.

Those things helped me when I had a similar problem.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your response. I live in Cordova around the Walnut Grove Lake area. I am not that far from the tower. Yes it sounds like interference. I know some local tv stations have been putting in new weather radar equipment, could this be a factor? Thanks for your help

From the posts about this problem, it is all over Shelby county as well as the outlying areas. It is obviously not a priority with WHBQ as it has been going on for months now. I wonder why there are no more complaints than those on this forum. I guess it will be SD for 24. :mad:

I need input from other HR20 owners with OTA. I cannot get 3-1, 5-1, 24-1 or 10-1 but am recieving 13-1 30-1 and 50-1. I have rebooted, reforced the new upgrade, reset and reloaded the locals many times to no avail. Can anyone offer any advice or having a similar problem. Would appreciate any input on anyone else's experiences with their OTA.

I wonder why there are no more complaints than those on this forum.
I would complain, but I'm not having the issue. It does suck that you and others are experiencing this issue. Just a thought, have you tried using another receiver to see if the issue still exists?

On a lighter note, the game on WMC looks terrible. I thought it looked bad on my 1080i RPTV but it looks even worse on my 720p LCD. I don't know how you people with 720p sets only can watch WMC and WREG. So much motion blocking it is ridiculous.

mx....can you get some screen caps and bitrate? I've got some friends over they are so are far very unimpressed by the pq we are getting. They asked me if all hd looks this bad and I said no, just this channel and channel 3.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3339/wmc01060716jv8.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc01060716jv8.jpg) http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5510/wmc01060715sw2.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc01060715sw2.jpg) http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4741/wmc01060714qh8.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc01060714qh8.jpg) http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8461/wmc01060713ha7.th.jpg (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc01060713ha7.jpg) http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6121/wmc01060712mj1.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc01060712mj1.jpg) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7497/wmc01060711ii8.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc01060711ii8.jpg) http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1922/wmc01060710dd6.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc01060710dd6.jpg) http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4984/wmc0106079er8.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106079er8.jpg) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5240/wmc0106078sz7.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106078sz7.jpg)

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4885/wmc0106077zx1.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106077zx1.jpg)http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3169/wmc0106076ez4.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106076ez4.jpg) http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2742/wmc0106075ah9.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106075ah9.jpg) http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/596/wmc0106074fx0.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106074fx0.jpg) http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5770/wmc0106073xh4.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106073xh4.jpg) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2583/wmc0106072gg9.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106072gg9.jpg) http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2715/wmc0106071qi1.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmc0106071qi1.jpg)

Bitrate:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9552/wmckk0.th.jpg (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmckk0.jpg)

Typical WMC.

I'm in Midtown as well (near Overton Park) and have no problems with Fox. I just helped my son hook up a new TV with a cheapo pair of powered rabbit ears from Home Depot and he gets everything with no dropouts (Cooper Young area).

Did you say you have a good signal then it drops to nothing? If so that sounds more like a multipath issue (interference from a bouncing signal). Try rotating (or even better moving) the antenna until the signal remains steady, even if this causes the signal to decrease. If you are using a preamp, try removing it to see if that helps.

Those things helped me when I had a similar problem.

Hope this helps.

Looks like I'm right in between you guys in Central Gardens but FOX won't come in on any of my receivers. The downstairs is connected to the antenna on the roof through my Dish Network receiver. I had it directly into the HD receiver on the TV with and without the preamp, still had the same problem. I've hooked up a simple UHF loop antenna directly into the receiver and it receives the signal but constantly drops in and out. I installed a LCD in my upstairs bedroom two weeks ago and have had two different antennas hooked directly into the receiver on the TV and the HD Dish Network receiver of that system and have the exact same problem. Even when I have FOX coming in at 80 or higher sig strength, it's blocking up and freezing. Channel 3 and 5 digital only reads 75 to 80 on the Sig level and they are both solid as a rock.
I've got over 30 years experience in RF systems and wireless voice and data systems is what I do for a living. :) If I've got a 9 db gain antenna on my roof looking at their tower putting out 1MW ERP, multipath fade is not going to be an issue. Same problem, 4 different receivers, 4 different antennas in 3 different locations. The longest I've been able to watch a program on FOXHD is maybe 15 seconds before it locks up and freezes, and when it loses lock, it may be gone for 10 seconds or 1 second.
All I know for sure is that we don't watch much FOX programing in my house. :)

Thanks for the info on you and your son's reception. Maybe I'll drag a Spectrum Analyzer home this week and check out the RF signal coming in off the antenna.

Obviously your experience far exceeds my elementary suggestions for a fix :D .

You would certainly be providing valuable info to DTV Dave if you ID someting in the datastream. Look at his posts over the last couple of weeks and you may find something more helpful.

:( - This is the second time writing this post since my last one was apparently lost to a logout.

I was just about to ask if anyone had or had used a spectrum analyzer on their OTA signal. I had looked into them last year but they were a little too expensive for home use only. I'd love to get some hard data on the signals off of the antenna to see if the changes I've been making are actually doing what I think they should be.

I had WHBQ coming in solid until about October of this year when frequent breakups started to occur. WREG followed in November and December. Based on the signal strength it appeared to be multipath issues.

During the bowl games last week I decided to try to fix WHBQ. I have an attic mounted set top antenna with built-in amplifier which runs to an amp/splitter. After reading about multipath being sensitive to over amplification I decided to start there. First I moved the antenna further north in the attic to try to minimize the amount of ductwork in a direct path between the towers and antenna. This had no noticeable effect. Next I turned the antenna amplifier all the way down. WHBQ went from ~95 with breakups to a solid picture at ~67 strength. However, all of the other channels could not be locked in. I tried 1/4 turn on the amp and found the other channels back but WHBQ at ~85 with breakups again. Split the difference at 1/8 and seem to have found a sweet spot. WHBQ is at ~79-80 and is very solid. WREG is solid and at ~85. WMC is solid in the 70s.

I think I've found a spot that works for most of the channels without constant tweaking. I've learned that if I really want a channel I should be able to dial it in rock solid at the cost of other channels but may be worth it for things like the superbowl, baseball, guests, etc. I also may need to adjust as other factors change, I'm still wondering if leaves/no leaves makes a difference.

Obviously your experience far exceeds my elementary suggestions for a fix :D .

You would certainly be providing valuable info to DTV Dave if you ID someting in the datastream. Look at his posts over the last couple of weeks and you may find something more helpful.

Hey Duffus, :D

Your input was very helpful. I know that you and your son both get FOX and I don't.
That tells me I've got a problem somewhere with my setup. What receivers are you using?

Hey Duffus, :D

Your input was very helpful. I know that you and your son both get FOX and I don't.
That tells me I've got a problem somewhere with my setup. What receivers are you using?
I don't think that your setup is the problem. I, along with others, had a marvelous signal last year withour dropouts. The problem is a recent one and one that DTV Dave has seen evidence of. See this post. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8832029&&#post8832029) There is a problem somewhere between the transmitter and our antennae, most likely.

Hey Duffus, :D

Your input was very helpful. I know that you and your son both get FOX and I don't.
That tells me I've got a problem somewhere with my setup. What receivers are you using?


I'm using the DTivo HR10-250 and my son is using the ATSC tuner in a Hitachi plasma.

Anyone following the game tonight, to me it looks like crap on cable anyone with similar problems?

Anyone following the game tonight, to me it looks like crap on cable anyone with similar problems?

With the exception of about 4-5 briefs breakups (1-2 sec sound loss and 3-5 sec picture breakup), the PQ was better than most of the bowl games I've watched this year. This is the first sound loss that I have noticed since the update of the HDTiVO software.

I compared channel 88 to 13-1 a coupls of times and the color saturation was remarkably better on OTA. Channel 88 colors were wasjed out compared to local.

Anyone else with an HDTiVo have similar issues with loss of sound or picture?

Ron

That's not saying much, I could only watch like 5 minutes of it, maybe I am expecting too much from cable. Anyone get the bitrate from the game. We just need more input I guess.

Anyone following the game tonight, to me it looks like crap on cable anyone with similar problems?
Unfortunately E* was my only option. Sure would have liked to see it in HD. What I could see looked very good. It's just hard to get an idea of pq in 5 or 6 seconds. :(

I thought last nights game was on par with the Fiesta Bowl last week. The Sugar and Orange Bowls I don't think looked as good as the Fiesta did. And the Cotton was the worst of them all. I didn't get the bitrate of the game because I was recording it to my pc. I'm trying to see what it would look like when I burn it to a CD. But I can imagine it was right around the same bit rates as the other games, which is the same rate as in post 4155. I checked the rates for the Fiesta, Orange and Sugar Bowls and those were right at the same rate.

I didn't have any A/V dropouts or issues last night with my HDTivo.

Can anyone tell me what the point is of having an FSN-HD channel on our Comcast? It looks like the only thing they show is like ONE Atlanta Hawks game a week, which is blacked out for Memphis anyway because of the Grizzlies. I don't know that I've ever seen them show Grizzlies games in HD... but then again, would anyone want to watch them stink it up in full 1080i?

Recently, Comcast added ESPN2 (very nice... but it doesn't seem to have as much HD content as ESPN) and MTV-HD (blah). INHD2 is gone (this was planned by InDemand Networks, actually), but they added "VSGHD", which as far as I can tell is a mixture of upconverted Golf Channel in the daytime, and upconverted Versus at night. The only thing Versus has in HD is the NHL, which is simulcast on INHD anyway, which kind of makes having a Versus channel in HD pointless...

Comcast, and Time Warner before it, sure has made some weird decisions.

Can anyone tell me what the point is of having an FSN-HD channel on our Comcast? It looks like the only thing they show is like ONE Atlanta Hawks game a week, which is blacked out for Memphis anyway because of the Grizzlies. I don't know that I've ever seen them show Grizzlies games in HD... but then again, would anyone want to watch them stink it up in full 1080i?

Recently, Comcast added ESPN2 (very nice... but it doesn't seem to have as much HD content as ESPN) and MTV-HD (blah). INHD2 is gone (this was planned by InDemand Networks, actually), but they added "VSGHD", which as far as I can tell is a mixture of upconverted Golf Channel in the daytime, and upconverted Versus at night. The only thing Versus has in HD is the NHL, which is simulcast on INHD anyway, which kind of makes having a Versus channel in HD pointless...

Comcast, and Time Warner before it, sure has made some weird decisions.

Of course, tonight the Griz are tearing up the Lakers and channel 5 has technical difficulties. great!

Of course, tonight the Griz are tearing up the Lakers and channel 5 has technical difficulties. great!

Just a quick note to address this. The production truck had a problem with a video D/A, the truck was able to fix the problem within 5 minutes. I will say this though I am sure it will garner a stray comment or two. The problem was nothing WMC has control over..... :)

David E.

Just a quick note to address this. The production truck had a problem with a video D/A, the truck was able to fix the problem within 5 minutes. I will say this though I am sure it will garner a stray comment or two. The problem was nothing WMC has control over..... :)

David E.

David,
Thanks for the information. Good to know what the problem was.

I was sad to see the czar go but the Grizz are actually looking pretty good playing up tempo ball. 46 points in the 3rd quarter, damn! That's about how much the Tigers score in a half.

No posts since 1/10? Is everyone out of town? Well, the new season of 24 starts Sunday and I guess those of us in "the sticks" will have to watch in SD since 13 seems to have little interest in solving the interference problem. I'm so glum! :(

No posts since 1/10? Is everyone out of town? Well, the new season of 24 starts Sunday and I guess those of us in "the sticks" will have to watch in SD since 13 seems to have little interest in solving the interference problem. I'm so glum! :(

I just got back from CES. What a great time! You guys should see the pics from the AVS party. I was one of the only ones who was dancing. They had celebrity impersonators, a great live band and great food.

I guess all I brought back with me this time was more problems.. :( The HD signals I saw in Vegas looked beautiful. It's too bad we don't have anything like that here..

No posts since 1/10? Is everyone out of town? Well, the new season of 24 starts Sunday and I guess those of us in "the sticks" will have to watch in SD since 13 seems to have little interest in solving the interference problem. I'm so glum! :(
Well, all games in HD today have looked like trash. NHL on WMC, NCAA BB and the NFL games on WREG.

The best part of the day was when OSU beat UTk.

I just got back from CES. What a great time! You guys should see the pics from the AVS party. I was one of the only ones who was dancing. They had celebrity impersonators, a great live band and great food.

I guess all I brought back with me this time was more problems.. :( The HD signals I saw in Vegas looked beautiful. It's too bad we don't have anything like that here..
So was everyone laughing at your drunk ass? :eek:

Yeah, it would be nice if we could get actual HD without it turning into big blocks from 2 of the bigger stations here.

Well, strike one on this Comcast takeover from me. Today, INHD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN-HD and Universal HD all suddenly went into a "Not Authorized" status on my 8300HD. At about 1:00 PM today, I waited on hold for about 90 minutes before someone picked up, and she claimed to fix the issue and said it would be back in a few minutes... and nothing. So, I called back at about 5:30. This time I got "we are experiencing technical difficulties, please call back" while trying to get the support line. I called back, and surprisingly got through immediately. This girl tells me that the server they use to push updates and commands out to the boxes was down earlier, and that they are backed up for HOURS. But if it's not back up by 7:00, to call back. So, I did. Same routine again with the recording tell me to call back, and getting right though on the second call. This girl tells me "sorry, there's nothing we can do about it. Just wait a day and see if it comes back."

What a joke. And people thought Time Warner was bad.

So was everyone laughing at your drunk ass? :eek:

Yeah, it would be nice if we could get actual HD without it turning into big blocks from 2 of the bigger stations here.


LOL, I wasn't drunk... I wasn't dancing well either... I kept trying to get people to join in, but it was just me, a couple of others, "Robin Williams" and "Whoopi Goldberg". The AVS staff seemed to enjoy seeing someone dancing.

LOL, I wasn't drunk... I wasn't dancing well either... I kept trying to get people to join in, but it was just me, a couple of others, "Robin Williams" and "Whoopi Goldberg". The AVS staff seemed to enjoy seeing someone dancing.
Hopefully this will show up on you tube soon.

I didn't get the chance to watch 24 from last night yet. I read on DBS Talk that the first hour there was a lot of panning and the pq looked bad. I don't know if that was specific only to LIL or the FOX national feed. How did it look OTA or LIL from D*? I didn't realize but our living room HDTivo was recording 88, but I setup our bedroom HDTivo for 13-1. I wonder if the fast pans will really look bad on D*.

I'm gonna try to get through all 4 hours tonight. I'll have from roughly 6:30 to 9:30 to get it done. Hopefully no interruptions tonight.

It's really good to see Gostkowski do real well in the post season. Wouldn't it be sweet revenge, and also good for Memphis, to see Gostkowski outkick Vinatieri?

Hopefully this will show up on you tube soon.

I didn't get the chance to watch 24 from last night yet. I read on DBS Talk that the first hour there was a lot of panning and the pq looked bad. I don't know if that was specific only to LIL or the FOX national feed. How did it look OTA or LIL from D*? I didn't realize but our living room HDTivo was recording 88, but I setup our bedroom HDTivo for 13-1. I wonder if the fast pans will really look bad on D*.


I thought that it looked pretty good via Comcast. I didn't notice but a couple of instances of really bad blocking. Then again, I have been pretty sick the past few days though, so I might not have been paying close attention.

WHBQ

Noticed few other posts with similar problems.

I live in Cordova. Past few months I cannot watch foxHD with my Dish vip622. It comes in and out with constant freezing.

I can however get a good enough but not perfect foxHD picture with the built in tuner on my Samsung plasma s5053.

I only use a cheap set-top RCA antenna for each. All my other channels come in fine. The set-top antenna for my plasma is beneath the TV in the bottom shelf of my entertainment center hidden behind the playstation. The antenna for the 622 I moved around as long as the cord would allow and could only marginally improve. Not good enough for viewing. I switched the antenna inputs thinking I could get the foxHD on my 622 so I could record shows, but switching only made the 622 picture worse.

So I am thinking thinking the 622 tuner is having a harder time. Would a better antenna help? My signal strength with 622 is high 80's for foxHD yet I have no problems with NBC with signal strength in the mid to low 70s. Did something change with WHBQ?

thanks for any help

Day three, and my HD tier is still offline, and now my Center Ice package did the same thing. Called again, and still getting shrugs and "try again tomorrow" from customer support.

WREG-DT is off of Whitten. It's right around Bumpus Harley Davidson.

WKNO-DT is on the other side of the interstate. I think it's around Macon Rd. It's the only tower on that side of I-40.

WHBQ-DT is on a road off of Whitten. Go North on Whitten from 40, and then take the left at the first light after you cross over the bridge. Just after the bridge on that street you will see the entrance the tower on the right.

WMC-DT transmits from teh same tower as WLMT-DT and WPTY-DT. They are around 5 miles north of the Wolfchase Mall down Germantown.

PAX-DT, if anyone cares, Is North on Appling from 40. Just after you cross over Stage (64) its on the left.

I also drove by WBUY a few months ago when coming back from Tupelo to Collierville. I don't remember the actual name of the street it is on, but it isn't too far from the MS state line.

That would be Highway 309 while you are still in Marshall County, MS (the city is Barton) and it becomes Byhalia Road when you cross into Tennessee.

I didn't realize that WMC-DT was on the same tower as WLMT and WPTY...

Day three, and my HD tier is still offline, and now my Center Ice package did the same thing. Called again, and still getting shrugs and "try again tomorrow" from customer support.
Go to the Comcast building off of Nonconnah and ask to speak to someone. Try again tomorrow is the answer for "I dunno."

Hey DTV DAVE I am having the same kind of problem with WHBQ that started a few months back. Got a good signal of about 83-85 but it scrambles then totally unlocks the signal then comes back after a few seconds. I have only got about 74-77 on CBS, NBC and ABC but have steady strong signals. I live in Collierville, 12.6 miles from the antenna site.

I've noticed a very dirty "constellation" display on our stream analyzer from our off-air DTV signal. Our receivers don't seem to be effected by this, and changing transmitter exciters doesn't change it, so it may be something in the stream analyzer. It looks as if receivers would constantly lock and unlock if what it is displaying is really happening. If anyone notices that they suddenly can't get us to lock when we have been normal up to now, please post here and let me know. It may be something as stupid as water in our receive antenna line (I hope!).

Posted in November. Still happening!

WHBQ

Noticed few other posts with similar problems.

I live in Cordova. Past few months I cannot watch foxHD with my Dish vip622. It comes in and out with constant freezing.

So I am thinking thinking the 622 tuner is having a harder time. Would a better antenna help? My signal strength with 622 is high 80's for foxHD yet I have no problems with NBC with signal strength in the mid to low 70s. Did something change with WHBQ?

thanks for any help
There's a lot of that going around, but Fox13 doesn't seem concerned. We've been reporting it for months and now it seems to be creepiing closer to the transmitter. Maybe you guys in Shelby County can get some help on this problem. :p

Hey DTV DAVE I am having the same kind of problem with WHBQ that started a few months back. Got a good signal of about 83-85 but it scrambles then totally unlocks the signal then comes back after a few seconds. I have only got about 74-77 on CBS, NBC and ABC but have steady strong signals. I live in Collierville, 12.6 miles from the antenna site.

See my post above. Maybe the return of 24 will get more people to complain about the problem.

I've noticed a very dirty "constellation" display on our stream analyzer from our off-air DTV signal. Our receivers don't seem to be effected by this, and changing transmitter exciters doesn't change it, so it may be something in the stream analyzer. It looks as if receivers would constantly lock and unlock if what it is displaying is really happening. If anyone notices that they suddenly can't get us to lock when we have been normal up to now, please post here and let me know. It may be something as stupid as water in our receive antenna line (I hope!).

Posted in November. Still happening!
We've found out what was causing the distorted constellation display problem at our studio. Our spectrum analyzer was connected to the same antenna connection as the stream analyzer (using a splitter), and the spectrum analyzer was leaking a signal back into the line to the stream analyzer that was causing the constellation distortion. Once it was unplugged, everything displays normally.

We have found no problem at our transmitter site, and we now see no problem at our studio. We have checked the signal at several points around Shelby and DeSoto County, and have found no problems. DirecTV is having no problem picking our DTV signal up off the air, nor are several viewers on this forum.

We now believe that the problems that some viewers have with the signal breaking up intermittently is due to reflections at their receiving antenna. This may have changed at some locations due to the leaves falling from the trees in October and November (at Channel 53, leaves are a big consideration, not only because they attenuate reflecting signals, but also because they are physically close to the wavelength at that frequency). Tuning an antenna using the raw signal level readings will not help in reducing reflections. Reflected signals will cause some frequencies within the channel to be attenuated more than others, but the overall signal level will still be high. The spectrum should look like this: |---|, while reflections will make it look like this: |^^| (sorry, best I can draw with ASCII). The average level of both will be the same, but the distorted one will cut in and out as it hits the limits of the delay taps of the receiver. It would be a lot easier if the receiver manufacturers would display tap energy instead of signal level, but even our demodulators here don't have this function.

We're sending out our Engineers to several locations that have reported problems to document the spectrum from the receive antennas, and hopefully to correct the aiming. We can't do this for everyone, but at least we can determine that this is what is causing the problem. If you have this problem with your receiver, and can be home during business hours, please email me with your contact information. I can't promise that we can get to everyone, but we'll do as many as we can.

There's a lot of that going around, but Fox13 doesn't seem concerned. We've been reporting it for months and now it seems to be creepiing closer to the transmitter. Maybe you guys in Shelby County can get some help on this problem.Bob, I'd love to help, but thus far I haven't had a problem with WHBQ-DT. In the Memphis University School area, my DB4 and D* H10 get solid 93% signal strength and have no trouble staying locked on the stream. I've spent about 12 hours watching WHBQ-DT over the last three days (NFL playoffs, 24) without a single bobble.

I'm sorry you guys are having trouble. If there's anything I can do to help troubleshoot, let me know. DTV Dave has been very responsive to issues we've raised in the past, so I suspect he is on top of this.

Chase

We're sending out our Engineers to several locations that have reported problems to document the spectrum from the receive antennas, and hopefully to correct the aiming. We can't do this for everyone, but at least we can determine that this is what is causing the problem. If you have this problem with your receiver, and can be home during business hours, please email me with your contact information. I can't promise that we can get to everyone, but we'll do as many as we can.Dave, I don't know that it would serve any purpose to take readings at a location without problems, but you're welcome to come here. I work from home, so I'm here all the time.

Chase

WHBQ

Noticed few other posts with similar problems.

I live in Cordova. Past few months I cannot watch foxHD with my Dish vip622. It comes in and out with constant freezing.

I can however get a good enough but not perfect foxHD picture with the built in tuner on my Samsung plasma s5053.

I only use a cheap set-top RCA antenna for each. All my other channels come in fine. The set-top antenna for my plasma is beneath the TV in the bottom shelf of my entertainment center hidden behind the playstation. The antenna for the 622 I moved around as long as the cord would allow and could only marginally improve. Not good enough for viewing. I switched the antenna inputs thinking I could get the foxHD on my 622 so I could record shows, but switching only made the 622 picture worse.

So I am thinking thinking the 622 tuner is having a harder time. Would a better antenna help? My signal strength with 622 is high 80's for foxHD yet I have no problems with NBC with signal strength in the mid to low 70s. Did something change with WHBQ?

thanks for any help



I live in Cordova and have OTA thru "D's" HR20 and Fox is the only local that I can get with any regularity. It constantly provides a signal of 95-100 while the others fluctuate greatly with WREG and WMCT seldom recording any signal at all. WKNO and WPTY are only slightly more reliable. I have previously asked for other HR20 owners to advise me of their reception for locals to determin if it is a software, box or local antennae problem but no response. I get great signals on all channels except WMCT with a direct feed to the tv.

We've found out what was causing the distorted constellation display problem at our studio. Our spectrum analyzer was connected to the same antenna connection as the stream analyzer (using a splitter), and the spectrum analyzer was leaking a signal back into the line to the stream analyzer that was causing the constellation distortion. Once it was unplugged, everything displays normally.

We have found no problem at our transmitter site, and we now see no problem at our studio. We have checked the signal at several points around Shelby and DeSoto County, and have found no problems. DirecTV is having no problem picking our DTV signal up off the air, nor are several viewers on this forum.

We now believe that the problems that some viewers have with the signal breaking up intermittently is due to reflections at their receiving antenna. This may have changed at some locations due to the leaves falling from the trees in October and November (at Channel 53, leaves are a big consideration, not only because they attenuate reflecting signals, but also because they are physically close to the wavelength at that frequency). Tuning an antenna using the raw signal level readings will not help in reducing reflections. Reflected signals will cause some frequencies within the channel to be attenuated more than others, but the overall signal level will still be high. The spectrum should look like this: |---|, while reflections will make it look like this: |^^| (sorry, best I can draw with ASCII). The average level of both will be the same, but the distorted one will cut in and out as it hits the limits of the delay taps of the receiver. It would be a lot easier if the receiver manufacturers would display tap energy instead of signal level, but even our demodulators here don't have this function.

We're sending out our Engineers to several locations that have reported problems to document the spectrum from the receive antennas, and hopefully to correct the aiming. We can't do this for everyone, but at least we can determine that this is what is causing the problem. If you have this problem with your receiver, and can be home during business hours, please email me with your contact information. I can't promise that we can get to everyone, but we'll do as many as we can.

The only reason I am on this site is because of this problem. I don't know how to email you but I am home all day and would welcome you to come by. WHBQ is the only station I am having a problem with. Both nights of 24 are ruined (I was out of town and tried to record).

Also why would one tuner (Dish) have a problem but not another (Toshiba TV) when both are connected to the same antenna. That doesn't sound like multi-path.

Also why would one tuner (Dish) have a problem but not another (Toshiba TV) when both are connected to the same antenna. That doesn't sound like multi-path.
It still can be. The ability to correct for reflections can vary with the receiver manufacturer. You could be just on the edge with one receiver but never go past its correction ability, but the other receiver could be over the edge with the same signal and cut in and out.

A few years ago, some Dish Network receivers had a problem with multipath on the initial channel scan. This could be cleared by doing re-scanning the channels. On some receivers, you should unplug the receiver for 15 seconds before re-scanning (it couldn't hurt on any of them).

By the way, my email is: David.Brant@FoxTV.com

There's a lot of that going around, but Fox13 doesn't seem concerned. C'mon now, that doesn't sound fair. Looks like DTV and WHBQ is going well beyond the call of duty to try and help solve this problem. You guys should try it where I live, I seldom get WHBQ at all. I figure I will have to wait 'till DTV is moved to channel 13 before I get better reception.

I truly do appreciate DTV Daves help on this matter, but it is still funny that I can receive the digital 3,5,10,24,30 and 50 over the antenna with no problems or dropouts. But I am consistently having dropouts with 13-1 with a pretty consistent signal of 78-85. I have tried about everything but nothing seems to help.

You make a good point there, Gut. DTVDave wrote something earlier about how difficult reception is at channel 53 (which is true), but WMC is on 52 and IIRC somewhat lower transmitter power, and many, including myself, are getting better reception from WMC than WHBQ.

Of course, that is not a valid comparison really, since no two transmitters are in exactly the same location (even if they are on the same tower), just as no two receiving antenna are in exactly the same location (or environment), even if they are in the same house, or on the same mast outside. Or different receivers connected to the same antenna, etc.

So if everyone in the coverage area was experiencing the same problem, I think we could blame the station. But, since only a few are having trouble, I understand why Dave is blaming multi-path or some other reception situation.

You make a good point there, Gut. DTVDave wrote something earlier about how difficult reception is at channel 53 (which is true), but WMC is on 52 and IIRC somewhat lower transmitter power, and many, including myself, are getting better reception from WMC than WHBQ.

Of course, that is not a valid comparison really, since no two transmitters are in exactly the same location (even if they are on the same tower), just as no two receiving antenna are in exactly the same location (or environment), even if they are in the same house, or on the same mast outside. Or different receivers connected to the same antenna, etc.

So if everyone in the coverage area was experiencing the same problem, I think we could blame the station. But, since only a few are having trouble, I understand why Dave is blaming multi-path or some other reception situation.

Neil: Just for the heck of it, what type of tuner are you using, sat or tv?

I live in Cordova and have OTA thru "D's" HR20 and Fox is the only local that I can get with any regularity. It constantly provides a signal of 95-100 while the others fluctuate greatly with WREG and WMC seldom recording any signal at all. WKNO and WPTY are only slightly more reliable. I have previously asked for other HR20 owners to advise me of their reception for locals to determine if it is a software, box or local antennae problem but no response.Here are some thoughts. I only had the HR20 for a brief time, so they may not be much help.

Users on this forum report that the HR20's ATSC tuner is not as robust as some used in other D* STBs and TVs. I can pretty much confirm what they say. Compared to my H10, the HR20 (with the original software that activated the ATSC tuner) displayed up to 15% lower overall signal strength on some channels, and the signal fluctuated quite a bit more. Channels that had previously been rock solid -- WMC, WPTY, and (interestingly) WHBQ -- experienced mild pixelation and break-up. For this and other reasons, I returned the HR20 and continue to use the H10.

I wouldn't expect the two D* boxes to register signal strength exactly the same way, but the fact that certain stations were the same while others were different led me to believe that the ATSC tuner in the HR20 may not be as sensitive or adept at rejecting multi-path reflections, etc.

Your TV could simply have a better tuner.

Chase

Here are some thoughts. I only had the HR20 for a brief time, so they may not be much help.

Users on this forum report that the HR20's ATSC tuner is not as robust as some used in other D* STBs and TVs. I can pretty much confirm what they say. Compared to my H10, the HR20 (with the original software that activated the ATSC tuner) displayed up to 15% lower overall signal strength on some channels, and the signal fluctuated quite a bit more. Channels that had previously been rock solid -- WMC, WPTY, and (interestingly) WHBQ -- experienced mild pixelation and break-up. For this and other reasons, I returned the HR20 and continue to use the H10.

I wouldn't expect the two D* boxes to register signal strength exactly the same way, but the fact that certain stations were the same while others were different led me to believe that the ATSC tuner in the HR20 may not be as sensitive or adept at rejecting multi-path reflections, etc.

Your TV could simply have a better tuner.

I agree with this. I had an E86 replaced by an H10. With the H10 I'm getting dropouts with WKNO-DT when I never and still don't have any dropouts with my other E86's and HDTivo's.

FWIW, I am having an issue with WHBQ-DT also on an HDTivo that's on 6.3a. However its a known issue with audio dropouts. I'm still getting video. I guess I'll call D* and tell them to push 6.3b down to me.

Evidently I had 6.3b and it was waiting for a call. I tried to force the call and it wouldn't go through. The message was something like the unit is getting downloaded information. It was like this for 2 days. I did a restart which then allowed me to connect the phone. Afterwards, i did another restart and I had 6.3b.

You might check to see if you can force a call.

Evidently I had 6.3b and it was waiting for a call. I tried to force the call and it wouldn't go through. The message was something like the unit is getting downloaded information. It was like this for 2 days. I did a restart which then allowed me to connect the phone. Afterwards, i did another restart and I had 6.3b.

You might check to see if you can force a call.
I called and they lady said it's available for my area. My HDTivo hsn't made a successful call in a few weeks so I'll hook it up tonite. Plus I'm recording something right now. Once b is fixed and beta tested by everyone else I'll dl it to my main unit.

Neil: Just for the heck of it, what type of tuner are you using, sat or tv?All are PC cards; MyHD, Fusion, and an old HiPix.

C'mon now, that doesn't sound fair. Looks like DTV and WHBQ is going well beyond the call of duty to try and help solve this problem. You guys should try it where I live, I seldom get WHBQ at all. I figure I will have to wait 'till DTV is moved to channel 13 before I get better reception.

I'll apologize for the comment. I do appreciate Dave's help with the problem, but it sure is slow going. I'm glad to see some movement now on a resolution.

I sent him the following in an email. "I am retired and available during the day. I do live a long way out, 2 miles over the Shelby-Tipton line off Highway 14 (Austin Peay). Still it might be worth a trip because I live in the middle of 15 pretty clear acres, former farmland. It is hundreds of feet between my antenna and the nearest tree. Also, thinking back, we had no troubles after you got stable last fall and winter. I have another antenna in the attic that I'll play with as I have time and another OTA converter that I'll try. I'll keep youn posted." I'd love to help get the problem solved as I do enjoy the HD.

I am using a 622 from E*. I have some old VOoM STB's here and I'm going to try one of those.

I'll apologize for the comment. I do appreciate Dave's help with the problem, but it sure is slow going. I'm glad to see some movement now on a resolution.

I sent him the following in an email. "I am retired and available during the day. I do live a long way out, 2 miles over the Shelby-Tipton line off Highway 14 (Austin Peay). Still it might be worth a trip because I live in the middle of 15 pretty clear acres, former farmland. It is hundreds of feet between my antenna and the nearest tree. Also, thinking back, we had no troubles after you got stable last fall and winter. I have another antenna in the attic that I'll play with as I have time and another OTA converter that I'll try. I'll keep youn posted." I'd love to help get the problem solved as I do enjoy the HD.

I am using a 622 from E*. I have some old VOoM STB's here and I'm going to try one of those.

Hang in a little longer. I do believe that because of Dave and a man called Eric that "help's a coming".

Hang in a little longer. I do believe that because of Dave and a man called Eric that "help's a coming".
Just to throw in my .02, I've emailed David quite a few times and he is very helpful/knowledgeable. I'm sure he will do all that he possibly can to get this resolved. Hopefully he can, maybe he wont, but at least he is offering to try.

OTOH, there are 2 other stations here that do not seem to care how bad their HD PQ is. :mad:

I'll apologize for the comment. I do appreciate Dave's help with the problem, but it sure is slow going. I'm glad to see some movement now on a resolution.

I sent him the following in an email. "I am retired and available during the day. I do live a long way out, 2 miles over the Shelby-Tipton line off Highway 14 (Austin Peay). Still it might be worth a trip because I live in the middle of 15 pretty clear acres, former farmland. It is hundreds of feet between my antenna and the nearest tree. Also, thinking back, we had no troubles after you got stable last fall and winter. I have another antenna in the attic that I'll play with as I have time and another OTA converter that I'll try. I'll keep youn posted." I'd love to help get the problem solved as I do enjoy the HD.

I am using a 622 from E*. I have some old VOoM STB's here and I'm going to try one of those.

Anyone with a vip622 in Cordova not having FoxHD OTA problems?

[QUOTE=DTV Dave]
A few years ago, some Dish Network receivers had a problem with multipath on the initial channel scan. This could be cleared by doing re-scanning the channels. On some receivers, you should unplug the receiver for 15 seconds before re-scanning (it couldn't hurt on any of them)./QUOTE]

I tried this on my E* 622 to no avail. :( On to the next trial.

Day three, and my HD tier is still offline, and now my Center Ice package did the same thing. Called again, and still getting shrugs and "try again tomorrow" from customer support.

UGH! I went to watch Northern Exposure tonight on UniHD, and MY HD Tier is "Not Authorized". This is pure crap, what is going on? We're paying for these!

Bob, I'd love to help, but thus far I haven't had a problem with WHBQ-DT. In the Memphis University School area, my DB4 and D* H10 get solid 93% signal strength and have no trouble staying locked on the stream. I've spent about 12 hours watching WHBQ-DT over the last three days (NFL playoffs, 24) without a single bobble.

I'm sorry you guys are having trouble. If there's anything I can do to help troubleshoot, let me know. DTV Dave has been very responsive to issues we've raised in the past, so I suspect he is on top of this.

Chase

I've been very lucky too, I got a Pinnacle USB HDTV card as a test, and I was able to get WHBQ-DT perfectly tonight, off of the teeny little antenna that comes with the package. I finally ordered a really nice HDTV stick, with QAM capabilities and everything.

It's really interesting to see the bitrates and data streams. I can't believe that WMC's DT isn't called WMC-DT, it's "WMC Digital Feed" or something to that extent. Really weird. And the Tube is still a pointless waste of bandwidth. I looked at it for a bit, and YOUTUBE looks about that same...

Well, I have good news and bad news. I hooked up my old VoOM STB and 13-1 comes in at a steady 95 signal strength and the picture is as clear as a bell. I don't really think that I can compare the signal strength with my E* 622, but the PQ is undeniable. My 622 is leased and it will be interesting to see what E* will do with only 1 OTA channel giving me a problem. If any of you more technical guys out there know of an argument that I can use to get a replacement, I'd like to hear it.

I was looking at the SatelliteGuys HD site and learned that this problem exists on Fox channels both in no. California and Austin, TX, Duluth, MN, Albequerque as well as other locations. Some are blaming it on the recent software updates ton the 622 but others are having the problem with other STBs, just like here. Seemingly no clear reason for the problem yet. However, all the posts refer to the Fox stations as the problem.

Hang in a little longer. I do believe that because of Dave and a man called Eric that "help's a coming".
We've been doing a lot of testing (with the help of a viewer), and we suspect that there is a problem with the firmware in both of our transmitter exciters.

We changed one of them in October, which is when all of this started, to correct a problem where a loss of the signal from the studio would cause the transmitter to lock up and have to be reset at the transmitter site. We kept our second exciter on the old version, and when we noticed the constellation problem that I've mentioned earlier, we switched exciters (and lots of other things) in an effort to find the cause. What we didn't know was that the constellation problem was not the real problem, but was being caused by having our spectrum analyzer on the same splitter as the stream analyzer.

In the past few days, we've tested at a viewer's house and found a pristine signal, and we've started from the beginning again, and wanted to try the old exciter firmware to confirm that the change wasn't the cause. Unfortunately, we put the new version in the second exciter when switching to it did not fix the non-existent constellation problem (because it DID solve the transmitter-shutting-down problem). While we were getting the transmitter manufacturer to send us the old firmware this afternoon, one of their engineers told us that they just found out today that the new firmware was causing problems with some Dish and DirecTV receivers that are identical to the ones that we are having.

We now have the old version, and one of our engineers is on his way to the transmitter site to load it in. It should be finished before prime time tonight. Cross your fingers that this is the solution. If you have had this problem, please try it again tonight and let me know what happens. We've also sent out a warning to all other Fox-owned stations about this, since anyone with this exciter will have the same problem.

Thanks,

Here's an update. We have rolled one exciter back to the old firmware and put it on the air, and it seems to have solved the problem with the viewer that we have been working with this week. Please let me know if anyone is still having the problem.

Sorry it took us so long to figure this out!

Thanks,

Here's an update. We have rolled one exciter back to the old firmware and put it on the air, and it seems to have solved the problem with the viewer that we have been working with this week. Please let me know if anyone is still having the problem.

Sorry it took us so long to figure this out!

Thanks,

All clear in Brighton. Way to go.

If you'll share the version of the firmware that is working, I'll post it to the SatelliteGuys forum so that all the other locations can advise their Fox affilliates.

All clear in Brighton. Way to go.

If you'll share the version of the firmware that is working, I'll post it to the SatelliteGuys forum so that all the other locations can advise their Fox affilliates.
The exciter is an Axcera DT2B, and the bad firmware is version 4.25a. The one that we rolled back to is version 4.18c. The issue we have had with that version was that the exciter loses its output when there is a disruption of the SMPTE 310 transport stream input. This, however, happened pretty rarely, and is preferred over lots of people not being able to see American Idol from using version 4.25a!

WHBQ

Noticed few other posts with similar problems.

I live in Cordova. Past few months I cannot watch foxHD with my Dish vip622. It comes in and out with constant freezing.

I can however get a good enough but not perfect foxHD picture with the built in tuner on my Samsung plasma s5053.

I only use a cheap set-top RCA antenna for each. All my other channels come in fine. The set-top antenna for my plasma is beneath the TV in the bottom shelf of my entertainment center hidden behind the playstation. The antenna for the 622 I moved around as long as the cord would allow and could only marginally improve. Not good enough for viewing. I switched the antenna inputs thinking I could get the foxHD on my 622 so I could record shows, but switching only made the 622 picture worse.

So I am thinking thinking the 622 tuner is having a harder time. Would a better antenna help? My signal strength with 622 is high 80's for foxHD yet I have no problems with NBC with signal strength in the mid to low 70s. Did something change with WHBQ?

thanks for any help

Looks like the issues are fixed. Fox is now watchable with my 622.

Thanks Dave

No problem in the last ~30 mons or so.

DTiVO HR10-250 (6.3b) in Midtown

Thanks

Here's an update. We have rolled one exciter back to the old firmware and put it on the air, and it seems to have solved the problem with the viewer that we have been working with this week. Please let me know if anyone is still having the problem.

Sorry it took us so long to figure this out!

Ah, This is why I love AVS. Thanks so much for working with your viewers to solve the problem, Dave!

Here's an update. We have rolled one exciter back to the old firmware and put it on the air, and it seems to have solved the problem with the viewer that we have been working with this week. Please let me know if anyone is still having the problem.

Sorry it took us so long to figure this out!

Thanks,
I was actually having issues with WHBQ-DT tonight. I had a strong signal as usual but started experiencing dropouts.


j/k. :D

Seriously I'm glad it was fixed for those who were experiencing the problems. Great job to David and also the viewer who assisted. If it was someone from this board thanks.

I wonder if this would fix the issues HDTivo's on 6.3a have with audio dropouts? Has anyone noticed it tonight? I have The War at Home recorded on my HDTivo with 6.3a on it. I'll try to watch some of it tonight and report back here.

btw I did a daily call last night and it didn't pick up b.

The exciter is an Axcera DT2B, and the bad firmware is version 4.25a. The one that we rolled back to is version 4.18c. The issue we have had with that version was that the exciter loses its output when there is a disruption of the SMPTE 310 transport stream input. This, however, happened pretty rarely, and is preferred over lots of people not being able to see American Idol from using version 4.25a!
Thanks, Dave. I have posted this quote on the SatelliteGuys Dish HD forum in hopes that it will help in other areas. Great job!

Still had audio dropouts.

I got home today and FOX is rock solid on my Dish HD receiver. You have definately fixed the problem I was seeing. I worked with Don, a tech from the station, on Wednesday checking the levels here at my house with my spectrum analyzer. Pat called me yesterday to tell me they had found a problem with the firmware. Thanks to FOX 13 for going the extra mile to find and fix the problem.

Way to go Dave and FOX13! You guys rock. :cool:

Chase

We're going to switch to the other exciter (the one with the bad firmware) for a few minutes to take some readings on our test equipment. I'm looking for a way to identify this problem if it ever happens again, and making an A/B comparison is the easiest way. It should only be for a short time, but we may lose the entire signal for a few seconds, and then have the Dish Network receivers freak out for a few minutes, and then we'll switch back to the good exciter. I'll make a post here when we finish testing.

Thanks,

Out testing is finished, and we've put the good exciter back on the air. As I suspected, there was no indication of a difference between the good one and the bad one on our test equipment. Whatever is bad must be pretty subtle. Once the transmitter manufacturer gets a handle on what caused it, maybe they can figure out a way for us to see it happen.

As always, let me know if there are any problems. The next project is to install a new encoder so that I can change our audio dialnorm value to match everyone else.

Thanks,

Thanks, Dave. I have posted this quote on the SatelliteGuys Dish HD forum in hopes that it will help in other areas. Great job!
We talked to our transmitter manufacturer this afternoon, and they told us that they have been getting calls from stations all over the country asking for the old firmware version because they heard that it fixed the problem at WHBQ in Memphis. It looks as if a lot of people are benefiting from the help you guys gave us in finding the problem, and in passing the word to everyone else.

Yes, the people we were testing with are on this forum, so a big thanks to them, and to the rest of you!

DTV Dave,

There should be some community award for work like this. If only the other stations cared 1/10th as much, Memphis would be the epicenter for the digital television revolution!

Thanks for efforts above and beyond.

Ron

I called and they lady said it's available for my area. My HDTivo hsn't made a successful call in a few weeks so I'll hook it up tonite. Plus I'm recording something right now. Once b is fixed and beta tested by everyone else I'll dl it to my main unit.


I have had 6.3b for about 1 week with zero problems and now zero drop outs

Just thought you might want to know.

We talked to our transmitter manufacturer this afternoon, and they told us that they have been getting calls from stations all over the country asking for the old firmware version because they heard that it fixed the problem at WHBQ in Memphis. It looks as if a lot of people are benefiting from the help you guys gave us in finding the problem, and in passing the word to everyone else.

Yes, the people we were testing with are on this forum, so a big thanks to them, and to the rest of you!

That is SO cool. It's things like this that remind you how powerful something like the AVS Forum really is. And I second HDTV_Duffus, if only certain other stations went above and beyond like you guys...

And to think, a year ago, we were just coming off of all the OTA HDTV hoopla... ;) It's amazing how the Fox13 jokes have died down!

The game looked great this P.M. Thanks again, Dave. Can't wait for 24 this week. I can see the nuke in HD in the preview to the show. :D

I have been reading the posts on this thread for a few days now. I know and knew there was no cure all to OTA antennas issues. The only post I have seen related to the Cordova area stated that the user was using a set top type antenna. As I am presently waiting on my first HDTV to arrive (11 am to 2 pm spread), I would appreciate any input from anyone in the area, or those who can take the data I provide from ANY area, who has a success story with OTAs, and what brand, model, etc. they used.

More specifically, I am really close to Walnut Grove and Walnut Bend. I'm thinking that I would get the best reception with an on-the-roof type. I am with D*, but have issues with them, and at this point in time don't want to re-up for 2 more years with them. I installed the D* satellite myself 4 years or so ago. I ran all the cable myself, etc. I am on a conventional foundation and have access to my crawl space to do whatever is necessary.

From where I live the spread on the compass in relation to the towers is 49 degrees, and the one furthest away is 10.2 miles. A few questions I have are:

(1) Would a multi-directional vs. a directional antenna with a rotor be the better way to go?

(2) is using a higher rated antenna (color code via antennaweb overkill?

I do know that a rooftop antenna needs to, and will be grounded!!! Would it be feasible to run the cable from the rooftop to a multiswith that is grounded already, and out to the TV? Too much signal loss?

Anyway, I'm sure I'll have other thoughts, questions, and ISSUES (@$%%^!) with the installation. Prior to Super Bowl Sunday will suit me just fine.

Thanks in advance to anyone with any suggestions. What a great website!!! Thanks, to AVS!!! I'm sure some of my terminology correct, but I'm learning.

Bud

O.K. I'll give this a try. Don't hold me to it as every location seems to have it's own ghosts.
I have a 72" 1080P Rear Projection TV. I am also a Dish Network subscriber and I liver in the Northeast part of Bartlett close to the Cordova area. My current antenna (which is now working really well) is a small (6") amplified multi-directional purchased from Walgreen's for 19.99. As all of the stations in Memphis now broadcast their digital signal in the UHF range, I removed the VHF spindles. The antenna sits next to the TV and the out put is splt to the antenna in on the TV and the RF in on the Dish VIP622. I have the amplifier on but only slight amplification because of the split. That's it. I can use either the TV tuner or the Dish tuner and get a great HD digital signal and picture from all of the Memphis stations. There was a hiccup with channel 13 (53) for a little while but that problem seems to have gone away thanks to the station personell. IMHO a roof top outside antenna would be a big overkill unlless you are in a very low area or have a bad obstruction that causes multi-path.

IMHO a roof top outside antenna would be a big overkill unlless you are in a very low area or have a bad obstruction that causes multi-path.
I would agree with Wayne, start with the smallest (and cheapest) antenna and move up if that doesn't work. I live in Hernando, and use a bow-tie loop (it's really more of a folded dipole, the kind that used to come free with TV sets) attached to the blinds in my upstairs window. It just happens to aim North, and from Hernando there isn't much difference in the angle between the station transmitters (plus, the loop antenna has a very wide beamwidth).

If a set-top type of antenna doesn't work well, you could use the smallest UHF antenna possible outside. If the angle between the transmitters becomes an issue, you could use two antennas with a combiner between them, each pointed a different direction.

Avoid using an amplifier at all costs - it will just overload your receiver at your distance. The dish multi-switch may work, but you have to use a filter and DC blocker to isolate the satellite signal, and I'm not sure how clean these are.

Hope this helps!