Originally posted by Kib
Ron -

No troll. Thanks for the words of comfort but I think it's going to be a good long time before I shove my head in the HD jet engine....

Regards...
Kib, welcome to the forum. If you are intimidated by the thought of setting up HD, please contact me, Home Theater is my passion and I love to help other people setup their gear. I helped a clueless buddy setup his 2 dishes for Dish Network last week after he moved and we had the dishes up and locked on in less than 30 minutes. He didn't think I had the 61.5 dish high enough due to his neighbor's house and I said "trust me", BAM, a signal in no time flat.

I have installed all of my own gear forever and know my way around electronic gear, so if that is holding you back, you have some resources available to you for the asking. :D

Darrell

Hi, Does anyone have the contact information for the engineering dept at KGW they could share?

The Nascar race is supposed to be broadcast in a 16:9 upconvert and it's being shown in 4:3. The same thing happened with the last race, but a phone call to the newsdesk with a request to nudge the control room and a few minutes later the 16:9 feed was on.
The same process this week seems to have fallen on deaf ears....

Earl

Titan TV is nice but if you want a list of only what is on in HD and perhaps away to double check. You can always go to HDTV Galaxy and there you will find a list of only HD shows on for the next few days

http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/broad.html

Originally posted by Marissadad
I helped a clueless buddy setup his 2 dishes for Dish Network last week after he moved and we had the dishes up and locked on in less than 30 minutes. He didn't think I had the 61.5 dish high enough due to his neighbor's house and I said "trust me", BAM, a signal in no time flat.

Darrell,

Why did you both with 61.5?

He lives out in the boonies and is eligible for CBS from Dish.

Well, the first football game was supposed to be in HD according to all the schedules I checked out but KATU is not broadcasting in HD on 2-1. Anybody with cable HD getting the game in HD?

Nope. I just e-mailed the station as there phone is already off for the day

I just spoke with the newsroom and they say they can't pass the feed because something broke!

Bob

Same here Bob, No widescreen Nascar yesterday from NBC and no HD MNF tonight on KATU. (and it's a 100 degrees outside)
I hope it's not something major with KATU.

Earl

Well, all is not lost for HD sports tonight - if you have Comcast. Rockies/Phillies on INHD now.

It'll be interesting to see if any of KATU's other HD offereings in primetime are affected tomorrow. That might give us a clue to extent of the problem.

Woohoo!! It's fixed!!! Thanks KATU!!

Cool!! I'll second that, way to go KATU!!

Third? Way to go KATU

Anyone Know if KGW has plans to use 8-2 to cover the Olympics? Kinda like KOIN did with the College BBall tourney.

Good question. Just looking at the Titan link that KGW program schedule takes you to, I see the usual Titan misinformation. They show both KGW DT channels carrying the same non-HD programs. I would hope they use 8-1 for showing the HD daily loops and turn 8-2 off for the duration. Funny how the Oregonian TV Click this past weekend acknowledged HD coverage by NBC but when it came to putting it into the daily schedule HD was missing. But we know what's on Telemundo!

With all the promotion this past week on the KGW news for their Olympic coverage, you have to wonder why there is never any mention of any of it being presented in HD to their HD-capable audience. I mean, here is a perfect opportunity for them to get some bang for their HD bucks by inducing more viewers to try out HD.

On another front, the first 2 rounds of the PGA Championship is being presented in HD on TNT-HD. Who carries TNT-HD? Can we expect Comcast to give us that via the 700 channel? Otherwise, for the weekend HD golf on CBS, I am glad I didn't pack up my STB and antenna when I added Comcast HD so I can tune in KOIN.

Bob

Pretty bad sound sync on KGW right now on L&O both OTA and on Comcast. Hope they can do better for the Olympics, although for most events, who cares about the sound.

The most sensible guide to Olympic coverage I've found is at this link. (http://nbcolympics.zap2it.com/grid.jsp?state=0&from=1092243600000&stations=10483_16300_10139_11207_31555_17983_20459_&zone=-8_1&genre=).

The HD listing isn't specific because I don't think NBC has any idea what events they'll be throwing into the delayed feed on any particular day.

According to the link above, the HD coverage starts at 1 am Sunday morning after 30 hours of Opening Ceremony.

I hope it's just because KGW is getting ready for the Olympics but between the sound sync issues, no HD on Leno now, and the trouble with Nascar last weekend, am I the only one that's starting to feel a bit uneasy about how this OTA HD Olympic coverage is going to play out for us.

I watched KOIN earlier so I have no idea if KGW was passing HD during primetime.

Earl

Earl: You're not alone. Last night on 8-1 the sound sync problem was replaced by a constant grinding noise on ER. You couldn't hear dialog. I flipped to the analog and it was OK. Sound is OK this morning on 8-1 for non-HD Today show. But I also have my doubts all will be well in time for the Opening Ceremonies. I don't think I would mind too much watching athletic competition without commentary but usually the ceremonies have dramatic music to accompany that I would hope would be fed directly to the broadcast.

Bob

Here's a reply from KGW:

Hi Darrell,
Yes. 8.1 will be the HD Olympics coverage. This feed will be completely different programming than what's on the analogue channel. 8.2 will duplicate KGW analogue. We now have a complete schedule of the events on HD in our on-line program schedule grid.

In case you guys need it, this is the lady who I've been in contact with regarding HD programming:

Brenda Buratti
bburatti@kgw.com

I just got the HDTV wonder card from ATI.

I finally got it working last night and I have some questions.
I live in Hillsboro near Cornelius Pass exit.


10 OPB - I get 85%, but only hear audio, no video.
32 WB - 70% audio only


30-1, KOIN, KATU, KGW, KPDX - 85%, good video and audio

any tips?

Why is the audio feed for the Olymipcs an ice skating commentary instead of what it is supposed to be????

Edit - now an ice skating program - where are the opening ceremonies?

Yeah what happend to the Opening ceremony on 8-1??

Someone should tell them it is time for the SUMMER olympics!

I think I read in another forum that the opening ceremonies would start at 9:00 for HD. This really sucks!! I .. cannot ... convince .... my ... wife ... to wait... for... HD !!!

Well it is HD Olympics - just 2002 Winter games!

I saw in the NBC HD schedule that the HD Opening Ceremony 24hr loop started at 9PM Eastern - maybe it starts at 9PM Pacific, too.

Which schedule - I use Titan and it still says 8-12.

All the schedules are contratictory. Even during the KGW evening news tonight they couldn't get the spoken word about starting times to agree with their on-screen graphics. Just a poor job of communication all around. I just hope the games come off better.

Bob

So, it appears we got to miss the first hour of the opening ceremonies in HD, while other affiliates got it right...

Edit - OK, now back to our regular 2002 programming.

I guess we'll have 24 hours to catch it again on the loop.

In the Central Florida Spring thread, they state their NBC coverage started at 9PM.

We'll see very soon.

Looks like they figured things out! A little ticker at the bottom of the screen would have been nice to inform us!

Redeemed - very nice - glad I had food and drink :)

Am I the only one unable to get a decent picture out of 8-1? Curiously, having no problems whatsoever with any other digital channels. Would appreciate any feedback from the local Olympics watchers.

I have had a couple break ups during the ceremony, but so far very pretty!

I'm getting lots of jitter now.

Got a "Wow, this is a lot better than before" from the wife after joining the ceremonies on KGW-DT at 9. Pretty impressive coverage. Especially for the few commercial interruptions. And how about all those 16.9 promos for KGW news? Didn't know they had those in their bag.

The wait is worth it. KGW/NBC - THANKS!!!!!

Not that I'm complaining,with 8-2, I get no picture, but 8-1 looks pretty good. Oh well, its not that I wanted to watch 8-2 anyway. :)

I think (hope) we are getting no pic on the sub channels because they are devoting the bandwidth to the HD channel.

A little bit of an explanation of the hour wait is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4196900#post4196900

Maybe Sony had a hand in it - they are the obvious sponsor...

Instead of getting lost amidst the 19+ pages (in 4 hours!) of posts in the "2004 Athens Summer Olympics on NBC in HDTV - Opening Ceremonies!" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=434076) thread, I thought I'd post my impressions here, both OTA as well as from E* (both DD2.0, just to get that out there).

I tuned in a tad late (around 9:15PM PDT), so I missed the beginning of the ceremonies (including NBC's recap of the 2002 Winter Olympics, apparantly), so I can't comment on the quality of that footage OTA. However, I did manage to catch most of the opening ceremonies from that point forward, and saw about as much [over]compression as I've come to expect from KGW/NBC (NBC may be sending out 22mbps for the Olympics feed, but KGW surely isn't). KGW still has their 8-2 subchannel running, but with no video (or with just a black generator), only audio running from the analog feed. I have my doubts, however, whether they even bothered to reduce the subchannel's bitrate. :rolleyes: At least a dozen times, the picture broke up rather severely (with 85-90% signal, steady, on a Dish 6000), freezing for a few seconds, getting glitchy, etc. Several times both the video and audio completely froze, and I had to switch channels back and forth to get the feed to resume. One time, specifically, was when KGW cut to their local content. Right when that happened, the feed froze.

At 10:00PM, I switched over the E* feed… actually, I'd been switching back and forth for a couple minutes prior, with no issues while Dish still had their "starting at…" graphic, but as soon as I attempted to tune in when the footage had started, the box completely froze, I had to power-button reboot.

After reboot, I started watching Sarah Hughes's performance from the 2002 Winter Olympics. I didn't notice as much compression artifacts (with transponder 19 all to itself, recompression shouldn't be necessary, even at 22mbps, assuming our receivers support bitrates that high), but I did notice a very peculiar effect… around fine, vertical edges that were horizontally panning quickly, the edges appeared to warble. Especially around the zeros in "2002," it makes the 0's look like they were… well, warbling, for wont of a better term. I can't with certainty say whether or not that was OTA as well… I didn't notice it, but I didn't see the same, high-paced camera movement in the footage I saw OTA. Still, I gotta wonder what I/we missed.

Around 10:11PM on E*, Sarah Hughes had finished, Michelle Kwan was "coming up," and the Sony commercial had just started; got around to the "In Hi-Def?" line, then quickly cut to the opening ceremonies, with Jacques whats-his-name (head of the IOC) walking down the stairs. :confused: I guess that was in the source as well, everything on Dish seems to be delayed about an hour from OTA.

10:17PM on E*: What's with the SD cam on the fireworks outside the stadium?! :mad: They ran the Sony commercial for all of 30 seconds, then cut back to the opening ceremonies, obviously more than 30 seconds later, as they're now in the middle of a poem, whereas before they were doing the national anthem. This is about where I tuned in OTA. Definately not seeing as much compression, not nearly as much, but I have noticed that warbling effect on other items, specifically some of the floats, which have some very well-defined lines (like the dancing dresses), which exhibit this issue well. Once again, I do not recall seeing that OTA.

EDIT: Watch the NBC/Olympics bug in the top-right corner anytime there's heavy motion in the background behind it. It gets completely obliterated in the same fashion that I was seeing the warbling lines.

A couple of key lines from the presentation:

(in reference to the pregnant woman representing fertility, or something) "This is pretty deep stuff, but it's cool if you let yourself go." :p Yeah, man, pass the joint…

(in reference to the laser light show) "And now the lights form the double-helix, the stuff from which we're all made! The stuff which makes us all unique!" You can't buy lines that bad…

10:52pm on E*: Albania just walked out. I remember this specifically OTA as being VERY badly compressed, with their bright red jackets, awash with macroblocks. From Dish, almost nothing. It was MUCH better.

10:53pm on E*: This is where KGW cut in with their local content, cutting out most of the HD footage of Greece. Beautiful country… this brings to mind the issue of glitches/freezing. I've only noticed a few glitches from E*, and only one freeze-up. Overall, much better presentation… but again, I'm noticing the warbling, this time on the windows of the buildings in the Greece footage. *shrug*

Well, I'm probably not going to watch much longer… the "Parade of Nations" doesn't hold much appeal to me (not that the Olympics at large hold any interest to me, and if it wasn't HD, I wouldn't be watching this much), and I can stand only so much of DJ Tiesto *groan* but I did enjoy the presentation of the floats and what-not… as the guy said, "pretty deep stuff…"

2nd EDIT: Well, they decided to start re-airing the opening ceremonies from the very beginning (no 2002 recap) at 2am, on both KGW and E*, in sync this time. KGW's sub-channel now has video again, so obviously their HD channel's nowhere close to 22mbps. As well, I'm also noticing the warbling effect I'd been seeing on Dish, so it would appear to be in the source. It would also appear that Dish is NOT recompressing. While I do notice compression artifacts, they are nowhere nearly as numerous or obvious as OTA. In support of that, and as a correction to the first paragraph above… Dish is actually sending out PCM. I didn't see the "Multi-Channel" light on my receiver signifying 5.1, so I assumed it was DD2.0, but no, it's not even Dolby Digital. I can only assume that NBC is sending out PCM, and all the OTA digital broadcasters have to convert that to AC-3, whether 2.0 or 5.1, to maintain ATSC spec. Dish doesn't have that restriction, so they just pass it through untouched.

I still love these floats…

Pic:
Pretty good, some compression artifacts - they seem to be getting worse as time goes on (is someone turning a knob or am I getting more critical?).

Audio:
I think I'm getting DD5.1 although the rear surrounds are at a much lower level than they probably should be. The first time the KGW cut in, audio was raised about 10dB - startled me and the dog went running! Kinda reminded me of the commercials 20 years ago where they raised the volume on purpose.

I have the same types of break ups - a couple of which were definately not due to reception, these were total freeze frame type. I did not have to reset, though.

Overall, I give it an 8.

What about tomorrow - Titan says it begins at 12PM - does it really?
Is it going to be in HD?

I have to admit I was tremendously disappointed by the mess of KGW broadcasts last night. After reading more this am, I understand that there are reasons for a lot of what I experienced, however NBC/KGW should realize that they may have made this olympics the most difficult to watch.

Here's what our family experienced:

We were planning our watching off our HD-200 OTA on-screen guides and there was no distinction on 8-1 or 8-2 what was really going on. It all said summer olympics. To broadcast the winter opening ceremony on 8-1 at the same time as the summer one seems just brain-dead. What are we..sheep??

So we moved to 8-2 to watch the (fatvision?) version. At 10 when we're just getting used to it, there's a cut of video to a 4:3 KGW news commercial while the olympic audio is still going....then after a few minutes, the video went dead and the audio kept going (and going).

So we navigate back to 8...and watch a few minutes and keep trying the other channels. Suddenly 8-1 has the HD version and it's 1 hour behind of stuff we just watched! Gad. 8-2 never came back.

The family quote of the evening was "this is totally lame". At 10:15 we all went to bed.

What I wish NBC would realize is that if they offer this stuff near real-time, people will make a bigger deal of watching and/or time-shifting it themselves. Right now it seems like it's all pablum that's so indistinct that people lose interest quickly. I only hope it can change before we write it all off.

It looks like the loop restarted at 6am.

On another topic: I had a friend perform a firmware up-grade on my sir-t165 thursday to prevent it from going nuts if and when the BFs are turned on.

It seemed to go OK. However, on restart and channel scan I can no longer tune in 2-1 or 2-2. All I get is snow on 43-0 analog.

I haven't used the 165 much lately and do not know if 2-1 and 2-2 were there before the upgrade. I'm not sure if 2-2 was ever there. This is my #2 tuner when I'm recording something else on the 3410a. (which gets 2-1 and 2-2 just fine)

Has anyone else had any similiar problems with the 165 or 2-2?

Is anyone with a 165 getting 2-1 and 2-2? If so, what is your firmware #?

tia

Lew

Well,

After reading some of the posts here about the HD presentation, I decided I had to add my two cents worth.

My family were not willing to wait until 9:00PM for the HD presentation, (although I tried to convince them it would be worth it). So we started watching watching Analog at 8:00.

At the first commercial after 9:00, I convinced them to 'give the HD a look'.

The first thing out of their mouths was "wow". After about 3 minutes, I reminded them they were missing the Parade of Nations on Analog. They just looked at me. We watched the rest in HD and thought it was excellent. We had two "bad spots where pic broke up for 1-2 sec. and maybe 3-4 blackouts for less than 1 second. and one "low signal" that lasted for 2-3 sec. I'm using OTA antennae and tuner.

As far as I'm concerned, it was worth it. The pic quality was great! Other than the problems above, it was very very good. Sound was excellent as well. The content was also better in families opinion to the analog content. Since we re-watched the first hour of Opening ceremonies, ther were numerous opportunities to compare what the analog left out, and some of it was good stuff.

This is very good job KGW and NBC.

Thanks!

Rick

Originally posted by ramick
So, it appears we got to miss the first hour of the opening ceremonies in HD, while other affiliates got it right...

Edit - OK, now back to our regular 2002 programming.
The one hour delay was done on purpose and has been discussed to death in the HD Programming thread. NBC want's us to watch their commercials, no doubt about it.

I went camping last night so I havenk't missed anything, I am recording the opening ceremonies from 10 am to 2 pm and will catch it on the big screen later tonight.

The broadcast was at 15.1Mbps - low.
Rez was 1080i.

Where do I find the NBC HD schedule - went to www.nbcolympics.com and the only stuff I could find is a list of sports coverage (not showing what is HD or not) or a single, small blurb. Titan.tv is not correct as far as subchannels for this area.

OK, I think I get it - NBC HD loops starting at 4AM through 12PM, then same thing 12PM-8PM & 8PM-4AM. Then next 8 hour loop.

Not to take away from the discussion about the Olympics but as of yesterday, KWBP now is broadcasting an SD sub-channel, which leaves KOPB and KPDX as the only stations with a single digital broadcast.

Earl

I vote KGW to drop the stretched .2 sub and devote full bandwidth for the HD channel - anyone else?

I'll second that, I'm not too terribly impressed with the PQ from OTA or Dish.

To me, this shows just how BAD digital TV can be... An HD channel that looks stunning as long as the athletes stand still, but breaks into blurry pixels whenever the gymnasts or swimmers move fast (the transitional wipes as the Olympic rings swoop across the screen look awful!), plus an SD sub-channel showing a low-qualilty picture exhibiting the same problems - basketball players becoming pixelated blurs as they fast break down the floor.

This is the television of the future? I hope not!

Originally posted by Richard Winfeld
To me, this shows just how BAD digital TV can be... An HD channel that looks stunning as long as the athletes stand still, but breaks into blurry pixels whenever the gymnasts or swimmers move fast (the transitional wipes as the Olympic rings swoop across the screen look awful!), plus an SD sub-channel showing a low-qualilty picture exhibiting the same problems - basketball players becoming pixelated blurs as they fast break down the floor.

This is the television of the future? I hope not! I'll second that: just as the two synchronized divers hit the water they're shown as big macro blocks of pixels and you can't really see what happens. The replays are a bit better (they require less bandwidth since the background isn't changing as quickly), but the pixelization is so extreme that really Standard Def is more appealing. Plus SD isn't delayed a full day.

If KGW is using a subchannel (I'm looking at the Comcast Digital HD which doesn't carry 8-2), I sure wish they'd drop it and send the maximum bitrate out on 8-1. We're about to go only SD (was that NBC's Master Plan?).

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Dish has devoted a single transponder (supposedly) to the HD feed and it is awfully soft, maybe it's the source? It almost looks as though it's out of focus slightly.

The opening ceremonies were at 15.1mbs which is low.

My understanding is that they could be at 19.5 or maybe better, but they use this bandwidth for the SD channel(s).

I have examples of HD from Korea - 25mbs, stunning.

I'm not sure I get the HD schedule, the qualifing for the men's 100m breaststroke was on 8-1 while the finals were on channel 8! lol

Also, I was flipping through the channels and the WB was all messed up. The OTA channels had FOX content running with extreme break up and pixelation. THis was during the 9:00 hour.

I can put up with the Olypmic pixelization and the delayed coverage but all I've seen on NBC-HD is swimming, diving and gymnastics. All the cool events are on the SD channels. Where's the volleyball, bicycling, basketball, soccer, the boxing, softball, handball? Everywhere else.

I've just been saving the 8 hour block to disk and skipping through it to see if there's anything I want to watch. Not much so far. :(

Originally posted by ramick
I vote KGW to drop the stretched .2 sub and devote full bandwidth for the HD channel - anyone else?

I don't think they can legally do that.

The FCC requires that a certain percentage of the programming match the analog and the HD olympics is completely separate from the analog programming.

How 'bout giving the SD channel .1mbps and the rest to 8.1 :)

Originally posted by Larry Hutchinson
I don't think they can legally do that.

The FCC requires that a certain percentage of the programming match the analog and the HD olympics is completely separate from the analog programming.

NBC and it's affiliates have a waiver from the FCC granting them permission to not simulcast during the Olympics. In fact, NBC has requested that it's stations not multicast during the Olympics. The problem is that some stations are now using the SD subchannel to deliver their signal to cable companies so they can't shut it off.

In this case the affiliate, KGW, looks to be using their standard HD/SD bandwidth split to me. So what that means is that they have two bad feeds. Just enough going to the SD channel that it makes for unsatisfactory HD watching, and not enough going to SD to make it worth watching at all. I can't imagine they are using their SD sub to feed Comcast locally. I've switched over to their SD feed a few times since the delayed Olympic coverage started to check their news, and the PQ is so bad I have actually resorted to watching their analog feed instead as the lesser of two evils. And believe me, I don't get good analog reception where I'm at so you can understand how bad the SD digital feed looks. It's just a supersoft, blurry waste of bandwidth to me. It's pretty much the same thing with all the local SD sub channels here in PDX. I almost always leave everything in HD mode full time these days and only watch the HD/upconvert feeds. It would be extremely nice if they could all afford state of the art equipment that could actually produce quality dual feeds sharing the BW...

ron

Originally posted by Larry Hutchinson
I don't think they can legally do that.

The FCC requires that a certain percentage of the programming match the analog and the HD olympics is completely separate from the analog programming. Originally posted by mitchrc
NBC and it's affiliates have a waiver from the FCC granting them permission to not simulcast during the Olympics. In fact, NBC has requested that it's stations not multicast during the Olympics. The problem is that some stations are now using the SD subchannel to deliver their signal to cable companies so they can't shut it off. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=430597

"…the FCC announced that it has eliminated-at least for the time being - a requirement that broadcasters simulcast their analog-channel programming on their digital channels during the transition to the technology." Who knows how long "for the time being" will actually be, but it's not specific to the Olympics, or to NBC.

Originally posted by R11
In this case the affiliate, KGW, looks to be using their standard HD/SD bandwidth split to me. So what that means is that they have two bad feeds. Just enough going to the SD channel that it makes for unsatisfactory HD watching, and not enough going to SD to make it worth watching at all. I can't imagine they are using their SD sub to feed Comcast locally. I've switched over to their SD feed a few times since the delayed Olympic coverage started to check their news, and the PQ is so bad I have actually resorted to watching their analog feed instead as the lesser of two evils. And believe me, I don't get good analog reception where I'm at so you can understand how bad the SD digital feed looks. It's just a supersoft, blurry waste of bandwidth to me.It looks to me like quarter-res, 320*240, upconverted to 704*480 (maybe not even upconverted, anyone with a OTA tuner card that can check?). I tuned into the news around 5:50AM this morning (during the umpteenth flyover of Greece), Dave Salesky was doing the weather, and the resolution was so bad, I couldn't read the text beneath his name in the bumper graphic (that's not the right term, what do they call those?). I assume it was something about his meteorological accreditations, but it was a complete blur, no distinct lettering whatsoever. The feed from Dish Network doesn't look this bad! And I'm relatively certain they're using less bandwidth than KGW! (but then we know DBS is 480*480, at best.)

Does anyone at KGW watch this thread?

If so, I for one would like an explanation.

If not, does anyone know an email address of anyone who has an "HD clue" at KGW?

To be fair, I think the PQ of the Olympics HD picture is much improved today, from what little I've seen.

I thought the picture was slightly improved later on Sunday afternoon. Sunday morning it was laughably bad, and I switched to the KOIN-DT coverage of the PGA golf at 11AM. The golf coverage was fine on the HD cameras, but the SD cameras looked worse than normal for some reason, very grainy with lots of rainbow moiré patterns all over the place.

I occasionally switched to 8-2 to watch some of the live coverage of USA v. Puerto Rico basketball, but it was so pixelated it was almost unwatchable. Even when the players stood still the PQ was amazingly bad. After the golf I went back and watched some more Olympic coverage on 8-1 and thought the PQ was noticeably better than it was in the morning, but still was not as good as it should be. Athletes in motion were still too blurry. When you moved close to the screen it was easy to see that the divers were entirely composed of small squares as they plunged downward.

So far on Monday evening the bit of swimming I have watched looked pretty good - no bad pixelization in the churning water like yesterday. I am keeping my fingers crossed!

In an effort to try to understand what is going on, I've been reading through the "2004 Athens Summer Olympics on NBC in HDTV" thread.

Among the noise, this is the best explanation along with the links in the next post in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4201591#post4201591

I also think the pic is a little better now, but I wonder why 1080i instead of 720p.
For sports, this is really a poor decision - they may have had no choice from my inferance of the above post.

To give the forum users another data point, the 8.1 loop during the morning hours seems to be fine with very little, if any, hiccups. However, in the PM time, things go to hell in a hand basket. I would assume this has nothing to do with the heating up of the attic (where the OTA antenna resides). There are even moments of "No Signal" showing up on the screen ! While PGA championship golf on Sunday was absolutely glorious on 6.1, the 8.1 was fully pixelated and unwatchable.

I guess we'll have to wait for the next Olympics, or even the World Cup Soccer of 2006 to see if a good HD broadcast of international sport materializes.

Sorry to break into the Olympics discussion, but I have another sports question, mainly for Lee Wood. I have been trying to get an answer from CBS Sports about the schedule for HD for the upcoming NFL season and they have failed to respond to any of my inquires do you have info that you could share with me. The same stone wall has come from FOX as well. Though it might not matter if FOX doesn't have their HD station up and running in Portland this fall.

Originally posted by Moorebid
Originally posted by mitchrc
[B]
…the FCC announced that it has eliminated-at least for the time being - a requirement that broadcasters simulcast their analog-channel programming on their digital channels during the transition to the technology." Who knows how long "for the time being" will actually be, but it's not specific to the Olympics, or to NBC.

Yes it is. Here's (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6516283000) NBC's request for a waiver specifically for the Olympics.

Originally posted by hilladen
I have been trying to get an answer from CBS Sports about the schedule for HD for the upcoming NFL season

I have to presume you are concerned with whether KOIN will be passing more games in HD since CBS announced 3 in HD each Sunday. I think the only way we get more games in HD is if the Lions improve to the point they deserve HD production (as a home team hosting an AFC team) by CBS. One response I got last year from them was KOIN felt the Joey Harrington connection dealt them more viewers when a Lions game was available to them via CBS. So get ready for another dose of SD Lions.

I think there are too many variables at work week to week insofar as advertising sales, etc. for KOIN to predict or commit to any game scheduling.

On an Olympic note, did anyone else catch the ad KGW ran on analog 8 just before the men's gymnastics? It was their news/weather promotion produced in WS that I have seen on 8-1 (ad nauseum, now). But it was also followed by a voice-over that said something about this presentation in high definition on NBC-HD. Maybe they just ran the wrong promo? But I thought these were all discrete productions that had no commonality at all - analog vs. digital HD. So how does one element creep over into the other?

I was also kind of peeved to have Snapper Jones' discussion about the US Basketball team rudely interrupted midstream on 8-1 a while ago. This is the first I saw of that part of today's loop so I was interested in what Jones had to say. But here comes the KGW news/weather team promo to interrupt. Now, don't they have a whole day to work those kind of things in seamlessly? I mean, if we are to withstand a 24 hour + delay, the least they could do is present it to us professionally.

Bob

Originally posted by hilladen
Sorry to break into the Olympics discussion, but I have another sports question, mainly for Lee Wood. I have been trying to get an answer from CBS Sports about the schedule for HD for the upcoming NFL season and they have failed to respond to any of my inquires do you have info that you could share with me. The same stone wall has come from FOX as well. Though it might not matter if FOX doesn't have their HD station up and running in Portland this fall. I don't have any hard information. The DTV News Links reports I posted last week are the only information I have seen. There have been no direct communication to affiliates that I know of (I have been on vacation and dealing with some personal matters though). CBS is being reported to be planning on doing three 1080I HDTV NFL games each weekend (cynical outlook: the one National game and the games closest in interest to New York and Los Angeles viewers). No schedule is available so far.

Fox is supposed to be planning to do up to six 720P HDTV games each weekend, but there are some major logistical issues involved (like having six or more 720P equipped production trucks to move around the country).

Additionally, ABC and ESPN-HD are supposed to be doing the Sunday and Monday night games in 720P HDTV.

All games will probably be produced with 5.1 sound.

Originally posted by mitchrc
Yes it is. Here's (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6516283000) NBC's request for a waiver specifically for the Olympics. Huh… well, looks like they didn't need to do that after all! :)

Originally posted by ridgefamus
On an Olympic note, did anyone else catch the ad KGW ran on analog 8 just before the men's gymnastics? It was their news/weather promotion produced in WS that I have seen on 8-1 (ad nauseum, now). But it was also followed by a voice-over that said something about this presentation in high definition on NBC-HD. Maybe they just ran the wrong promo? But I thought these were all discrete productions that had no commonality at all - analog vs. digital HD. So how does one element creep over into the other?In the broadest sense, "this presentation" is indeed available in high definition on NBC-HD. It's referring to the Olympics at large, not any specific event, and certainly not specifically that promo, though I suppose they could be attempting to claim that this promo was in high-def, but then so does TNT-HD… about everything. :rolleyes:

I was also kind of peeved to have Snapper Jones' discussion about the US Basketball team rudely interrupted midstream on 8-1 a while ago. This is the first I saw of that part of today's loop so I was interested in what Jones had to say. But here comes the KGW news/weather team promo to interrupt. Now, don't they have a whole day to work those kind of things in seamlessly? I mean, if we are to withstand a 24 hour + delay, the least they could do is present it to us professionally.Actually, the network feed cut him off, not KGW. And to be fair, he was going way long. They tried to cut him off about 5 minutes prior to that, by running the wrap-it-up music, though he wasn't wearing an earpiece, so how's he supposed to know? They gave up after about 15 seconds, and they just kept going… and going… finally, they cut to a shot outside of the stadium, started running the music, but they still kept going. I guess whoever was running the board in Athens got impatient. :p

Thanks

We got word today that both pre-season NFL games (Fri., Aug. 20, Baltimore @ Philadelphia and Sat., Aug. 28, New England @ Carolina) on CBS will be in HDTV, but that the two golf matches those weekends (Aug. 19 - 20 NEC Invitational from Firestone Country Club and the Aug. 28 - 29 Buick Championship Tournament Players Club) that were originally supposed to be in HDTV will NOT be.

So are the golf games being sacrificed for the football game? You may have few upset golf fans if that is the case! But thanks again for the info.

Yes, the programming gods giveth and taketh away. But even as a golf fan to choose between the two, I prefer the football option to the paucity of HD cameras CBS has been using at their non-major tournaments. So thanks CBS and Lee, although I'll be out this Fri. evening.

Bob

Quick question, is the WB 32-1 coming in okay for everybody because mine is not. I tried resetting my receiver but no luck.

Currently coming in fine on my MyHD card.

Cris

It's been awful here for about a month now. Pixellation and breakup .

Signal quality here went from nearly 90% down to 60% here in Tigard.

Originally posted by Hormoz
To give the forum users another data point, the 8.1 loop during the morning hours seems to be fine with very little, if any, hiccups. However, in the PM time, things go to hell in a hand basket.
Guess this has changed. Its 9AM and its a pixellated mess. Actually it looks fantastic as long as nobody moves too much...

I guess we'll have to wait for the next Olympics, or even the World Cup Soccer of 2006 to see if a good HD broadcast of international sport materializes.
As long as its not being broadcast by NBC/WGN, it should be fine. Unless there suddenly gets to be a huge number of HD viewers in Portland, I don't foresee them being particulary interested in high-quality HD sports broadcasts.

BB

Question for Lee Wood ...

Lee, to your knowledge, does KOIN ever grant waivers to Directv customers to receive distant network feeds of HD channels?

I recently put in waiver requests through D* for all of the HD distant network feeds. I just found out that I was approved by the local FOX affiliate, am still waiting on NBC, but was rejected by CBS (KOIN) and ABC. I kind of figured that this would happen, since I'm "supposedly" in a A-grade reception area for ABC and CBS, and a B-grade area for the others. But the reality is that I'm directly behind Mt. Scott, and despite spending hundreds of dollars on equipment and professional help, I cannot receive any of the signals with any consistency.

To whom at KOIN would I appeal?

Anyone else have any insights on making appeals locally? At KATU and KGW (assuming my waiver is rejected there)?

Thanks.

Anyone else seen the new HD back-to-school Target commercial on WB? I was just explaining to someone how well WB upconverts their SD commercials when that commercial suddenly completely filled the screen with impossibly dazzling colors and graphics. That wasn't SD at all!

Originally posted by marshdom
But the reality is that I'm directly behind Mt. Scott, and despite spending hundreds of dollars on equipment and professional help, I cannot receive any of the signals with any consistency.

To whom at KOIN would I appeal?

Anyone else have any insights on making appeals locally? At KATU and KGW (assuming my waiver is rejected there)?

Thanks.

Whereabouts behind Mt. Scott are you? I've been getting ready to move to hidef but being in Happy Valley, I'm not sure if I can get the signals here either. I'll be interested to see what you learn and exactly where you are behind Mt. Scott.
Bill

Bill,

I, too, am in happy valley. I'm probably a quarter-mile south & west of the fire station.

When I first got excited about HD (a year or so ago), I waited a month or so and became one of the first Comcast HD subscribers in our area. That was fine and all, but the only locals they have in HD are ABC (2) and NBC (8), not CBS or FOX. FOX may come on soon, but it may take forever for CBS.

And ... I'm really a somewhat-loyal Directv (D*) customer, so I'd rather not have to use the Comcast HD box. (Now if they'd get a good HD-PVR box out soon - as is rumored - I might change my mind ... but that's another discussion.) So I decided to try to get HD signals over-the-air (OTA). I knew from trying previously, that I could get a few fuzzy analog signals OTA ... and then I heard that HD-OTA is an "all or nothing" thing (no fuzzy signals - either get them or you don't ... or so I thought). So I began stepping through the process of trying to get OTA-HD signals (using a D* box and various antennas). This finally led to hiring an antenna "expert" who came to my house with a signal strength meter. He told me that I had a very low probability to be able to get the signals, but that we could give it a try. So I paid him a bunch of money for his time and we installed the highly-recommended Channel Master (4228 is the model number, I believe). It worked okay ... got me most of the locals ... that day. But what I soon found out was that with changing weather, seasons, construction?, etc. ... my signals soon started to come in and out ... very frustrating. No amount of antenna adjustment, filters, amplifiers, etc seem to do the trick. This has led me to my most recent option of trying to get waivers to receive the distant network feeds from D* (they currently have CBS, with NBC & FOX coming very soon … and hopefully ABC by year-end).

So ... all of that to say ... depending on where you are at, you may or may not be able to get an OTA signal. I'm kind of right behind the slope of Mt. Scott (relative to the TV towers in the west hills). If you're on the upslope on the SE side of HV (or even right in the middle of HV), maybe you'd have a better chance.

If you want to check it out, I'd try one of three things. The first and easiest would probably be to sign up with Comcast to get a flavor for HD, but remember that you won't get FOX or CBS (although to be fair, our local FOX affiliate isn't broadcasting in HD yet - but should be soon, I think). Second, if you already have an OTA-HD receiver box (or are willing to buy one and potentially return it, if it doesn't work out), I would suggest starting with a simple little "Silver Sensor" antenna. I picked one up at the Clackamas Mall Sears for ~$35, as I recall. It is a great little antenna (easy to point around with your hand - and is enough antenna for many people) and should give you an idea of your chances with OTA/HD. Or, third, you could hire someone to come out and test your potential signal strength ... let me know if you want a reference.

Sorry if that was too long-winded. Feel free to send me a Private Mail through AVS, if you'd like.


Lee … if you’re out there … any opinions on what it takes to get a DNS waiver from KOIN? I actually got one from FOX-12 and KGW/NBC. But I was rejected by KOIN and KATU, probably because I supposedly have grade-A signals for both (I guarantee you that I don’t!!!). Again, does anyone else have experience getting DNS waivers (on appeal) from KOIN and/or KATU?

Has FOX-12 OTA digital broadcast been off the air in the last few days? I used to be able to tune in to digital channel 30-1 for FOX, but have not been able to do it recently.

DC

Has FOX-12 OTA digital broadcast been off the air in the last few days? I used to be able to tune in to digital channel 30-1 for FOX, but have not been able to do it recently.

It's been fine for me on both 30-1 and 30-2. In fact the other day, I think it was the Seahawks game, 30-1 had the game, and 30-2 had the national feed airing.

Earl (who just now checked and it's still up and running)

Has anyone noticed that on ABC 2.2 the voice and picture are in a delay? I live in Vancouver and it is always like that. Any updates on the time schedule for Fox-HD?

I exchanged e-mail with the engineer at KATU, he said he presently doesn't have the range on the HD encoder to get it where he wants it to be, but he is not giving up. To his credit, it is much better than it was two weeks ago.

Any updates on the time schedule for Fox-HD?

Not since you posted this in the FOX-HD thread in the other forum.

Originally posted by jesmith1263
I called FOX 12 in Portland, OR on 19 Aug asking about the fall line up and if we in Portland, OR/Vancouver, WA will be able to watch it in HD. They stated that FOX-HD programming should be up and running by mid October.

Here's some more detail about KPTV and KPDX HD that I posted in this thread back at the end of July.
Originally posted by R11
Here's the response Ed Williams sent me regarding their HD progress. Looks good!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fox is just today completing the replacement of the two satellite
antennas through which we receive the network. This is in preparation
for a dramatic increase in data rate over the satellite in the early
part of August. That increased data rate will enable the network to
ship us our HD programming on the same satellite transponders we use now
for SD, syndication and news content.

The proposed Fox HD launch is Sunday, September 12th. We're working
toward the goal with the network. High definition studio gear should be
in house in late August / early September. I will tell you that for us
it's going to be very, very tight making the 9/12 launch and in all
honesty, I can't guarantee we're going to meet that date. We've had a
large number of much higher priority projects relating to news and main
broadcast plant to deal with first this fiscal year, and there's only so
many hours in a day, and so many bodies available to do the work.

Regardless, we're working toward the goal of having HD up and running on
both Fox 12 and UPN 49 before the end of September.

Ed

ron

I recall that post Ron, but according to jesmith1263, he called just last week and was given the mid October date. Six months from now that two weeks won't mean a thing as long as we have FOX and UPN HD though.

I do wonder which is a more accurate estimate.

Something I've been wondering and haven't seen mentioned is that FOX HD is 720p, UPN HD is 1080i. Given that KPTV and KPDX are tied at the hip, has anyone heard if they will be passing the signals in their original format (KPDX in 1080i and KPTV in 720p) or will KPDX cross convert UPN to 720p?
I can't see KPTV going to 1080i because that kinda kills the whole FOX splicer set-up, correct?

Earl

Originally posted by earletp
Given that KPTV and KPDX are tied at the hip, has anyone heard if they will be passing the signals in their original format (KPDX in 1080i and KPTV in 720p) or will KPDX cross convert UPN to 720p?
I can't see KPTV going to 1080i because that kinda kills the whole FOX splicer set-up, correct?Well, I would suspect that the channels are separated enough to allow each one to operate at different formats. It would probably require the same amount of time/money either way.

--Chris ^_^

Have I missed out seeing the closing ceremonies in hi def? I turned on KGW's HD feed on Comcast 708 at about 8:45 this morning to see some recap pictures from earlier HD performances narrated by Al Trautwig. Nice job. But I thought, good!, they'll start the loop over again at 9:00 and I'll be able to see the closing ceremony in HD. (Which was covered terribly, IMO, last night by NBC. Too many interruptions.)

Well, at 9:00 the screen went black and about 7 minutes later, I see "Dubya" being interviewed by Matt Lauer, presented in stretched SD, from the Today show. I checked my OTA feed and it was the same as Comcast's.

So am I paying the price now for not getting up at 4:00am to catch the HD version of the ceremonies? Did anyone catch them in HD at all and did I miss a better presentation than what I saw last night?

Bob:(

Well, count me as another surprised viewer who was hoping to catch the closing ceremony this afternoon on KGW-HD. I don't have a clue as to why they decided that the digital viewers prefer the stretched version of their regular program. Really Nice!!!

Chris, one would hope it works out that way, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Ron, I didn't watch either the opening or closing ceremonies in SD so I can't compare, but I did catch the closing ceremony at 1:00am in HD and if you saw the HD opening ceremony the presentation was much the same.
Somewhere in one of the Olympics' threads I saw mentioned that they weren't going to continue the loop but a couple of times after things closed down, I was surprised the only showing was in the middle of the night.

KGW sure has been having some issues as of late, I don't know if it's equipment trouble, a less than well informed staff, or a West coast NBC feed problem. What ever it is sure has been putting the damper on NBC HD.
I was looking forward to watching Hawaii in HD last night, after the first few minutes in window box SD, I made a call to the newsroom and was told they'd let them know, finally at 8:46 during a commercial break the NBC screensaver came up and we got to see the last few minutes in HD. Kinda like the reverse of Father of the Pride, it started out in HD, a few minutes later it went to SD and stayed that way.

I don't want to keep calling the newsroom and bugging them if it does no good or the message doesn't get passed along, I'm sure they've better things to do any way. If they are having equipment trouble I'm sure they are working on it, if it's just that someone forgets or isn't told to flip the switch, I hope they get their act together soon.

Earl

What's up with KGW this week? First they blow up in the middle of Father of the Pride, then Hawaii is in SD. Are they having catastrophic equipment or brain failures over there? I know they didn't kick in the HD for FOTP until about 30 seconds in.

Guess What? Maybe you know it already - IF - you are psychic (sp) - I found out through another thread here that our Local Comcast has already added NFL Network on 417. I had been waiting for a Message or something in our bill about it - but NO WAY. It's "by guess and by golly" I guess. Wonder how long we have had it and I did not even know it. GREAT Customer Service. Thanks Comcast.

Michael:confused:

Originally posted by cyberized
Guess What? Maybe you know it already - IF - you are psychic (sp) - I found out through another thread here that our Local Comcast has already added NFL Network on 417.

Michael:confused:

So you are seeing the NFL Network on Comcast in Beaverton? It Doesn't seem to have shown up here (North Portland) yet.

What's up with KGW? Take a look at the "Hawaii" thread in HD programming - there are screwed-up NBC stations all over the country. They just don't seem to take an interest in HD (other than marketing it).

There's a week-old pro football game on 30-2 right now, I have no idea why. It beats watching soaps, but too bad it doesn't have any sound!

(edited because KGW just flipped the switch and NASCAR is now in widescreen)
Thank you KGW!! :)



On a positive note, KWBP is actively promoting their Hi Def fall lineup and not on a program by program basis, but with the focus of the promo being HD itself. Kudos to them!!

Earl

We tried watching Boston Legal tonight OTA on KATU-DT 2-1 but about 10 minutes in, the sound kept breaking up. So we switched to analog on our Comcast cable to channel 4. That was fine but out of curiousity, I tuned to Comcast 704 for the digital version and got the same audio breakups. Must have been some kind of front end problem with the digital feed from ABC. Anyone else?

Bob

During the last few weeks, WG (32-1) has been completely unwatchable due to continuous break-ups. Anybody else experincing this problem? Never had receptions problems with this channel before. Has they lower the transmitted power?

Walter, I've seen the same thing, everytime I tune it in it's a mess, maybe we need to let Pat know.

Originally posted by Marissadad
Walter, I've seen the same thing, everytime I tune it in it's a mess, maybe we need to let Pat know.
A 2nd though that came to my mind is that problems may've started after the VOOM STB firmware upgrade to 6.20. Do you have a 2nd OTA tuner to try it?
Anyway, who's Pat?

I see the same thing with Dish or Voom. Pat is the station engineer at WB.

Originally posted by Marissadad
I see the same thing with Dish or Voom. Pat is the station engineer at WB.
Good to confirm that is not the V* STB tuner. Let's report it to Pat. What's the best way to do it? do you have his e-mail?

Just for the record it is problamatic for me too

Walter,

Pat reads this board regularly.. I emailed him about that very same thing about a week ago.

Cheers,
Sam

I get only audio breakups OTA and via Comcast on KWBP-DT, the picture doesn't seem to stutter at all.

Did you notice we are "official" now? Someone renamed the thread and we are no longer "Nearly" official. One notch up in the status chain for PDX!

Bob

I had this thread as the HDTV thread, but just noticed Portland has a fairly substantial Comcast thread, so this will become the OTA thread. There seems to be enough activity in Portland to support both threads. If not, I'll merge them down the road into a single HDTV thread. Until then try to keep the focus of each thread separate.

It's the end of an era. The "Nearly Official Portland, OR DTV Thread" is no more.... Now we're the drab, cookie-cutter sounding Portland, OR OTA thread. Rookie moderator just has too much time on his hands ;).

ron

Does this mean we're "Fully Official" now?

Originally posted by R11
It's the end of an era. The "Nearly Official Portland, OR DTV Thread" is no more.... Now we're the drab, cookie-cutter sounding Portland, OR OTA thread. Rookie moderator just has too much time on his hands ;).

ron

I was thinking about merging with the Portland, ME thread to save space. I'm full of great ideas :)

All the "not quite official..." and "almost officially unofficial" stuff was getting crowded.

WB seemed OK last night (except for the PQ). Did you try it Walter? They seem to be compressing their HD pretty heavily, it sure doesn't look very crisp.

Originally posted by CPanther95
I was thinking about merging with the Portland, ME thread to save space. I'm full of great ideas :)

All the "not quite official..." and "almost officially unofficial" stuff was getting crowded. Just giving you a little hard time Panther. Somebody's got to break you in properly :). Uniformity is not a bad thing I guess. I've just always been a bit of a rebel though so don't mind me. As far as the PDX Comcast thread goes, for a long time we had both groups and all discussion contained in this one thread, and then the young upstarts decided to break away on their own and start that one. I'm sure they (and some/most of the OTA people here) would appreciate it if you would leave the two separate (but equal of course :D ). I've checked in to the Comcast thread a few times since they started it and it seems to be sustaining pretty well.

ron

Originally posted by Marissadad
WB seemed OK last night (except for the PQ). Did you try it Walter? They seem to be compressing their HD pretty heavily, it sure doesn't look very crisp.
I tried very briefly last night and still the same result: completely unwatchable due to continuous breakups :(

Has anyone received any NEW info on the timeframe for FOX 12. I sent an e-mail this am, with no response yet. Still hoping Mid October is the latest and not the earliest.

What's that old saying about ants in the pants? I'm beginning to wonder if you have money riding on when they first fire up their HD transmitter or something? :D

ron

Hey R11: I don't know what you are talking about. I was just wondering if any new info was out there. Did not expect a smarta** remark. No money riding just interested.

Hey now, just kidding you a little bit there friend. Nothing to take personal or get riled over. It's just that you have posted the same question a couple times now just a week or so apart despite the answers you received from the station and people here. You seemed awfully anxious for some reason. I thought maybe you would come back and tell us you were going to make a guest appearance in one of the FOX season premieres or something and wanted to see yourself in HD :cool:.

ron

I'm anxiously waiting too, mainly for the Pro Football games. Come on FOX Portland - get it together already! Seattle is kicking our butt!

Also, I was poking around and can't find out when Letterman is going HD. I was in the audience back in March and they definitely had HD cameras running... strange that they still broadcast it in SD. I watch Leno more now since it's HD.

-Dan

Originally posted by Marissadad
WB seemed OK last night (except for the PQ). Did you try it Walter? They seem to be compressing their HD pretty heavily, it sure doesn't look very crisp.

I'm not sure what you and Walter are talking about with the breakups during our HD feeds or the picture quality issues. I'm not seeing those myself although I don't watch a lot of our programming in the evenings. I guess I don't fit the young female demos that our programs target since I'm an older male viewer. Nothing has changed on our end that should affect those things. The only change is that I've been helping the guys at Clear Creek TV troubleshoot a problem they are having with our signal so I temporarily deleted our SD subchannel on Thursday afternoon of last week and we are still just running the single HD stream. The bitrate has not changed on the HD feed. I have not seen any problems in our OTA signal and we are still running the same transmitter power level as always.

BTW, how come nobody noticed that our program guide has disappeared? I've been trying to troubleshoot that problem (in my spare time) but I thought maybe somebody else would at least notice. Maybe the program guide info is a waste of bandwidth since nobody looks at it.

Pat

BTW, how come nobody noticed that our program guide has disappeared? I've been trying to troubleshoot that problem (in my spare time) but I thought maybe somebody else would at least notice. Maybe the program guide info is a waste of bandwidth since nobody looks at it.

Hi Pat, I noticed. I also had figured it was only temporary and that I should give you time to fix it before pestering you. I am pleased that you added the guide and hoped that with you and KOIN sending out the program guide it would spark the folks at KATU, KGW, and KOPB to think about adding program information in the name of competition. It would also be nice if KPDX and KPTV broadcast guide info when they finish their conversion.
BTW, KOIN has not had guide info, at times, either lately... :)

I've not been experiencing the breakups that others have mentioned.

Earl

Originally posted by dgehred
Also, I was poking around and can't find out when Letterman is going HD. I was in the audience back in March and they definitely had HD cameras running... strange that they still broadcast it in SD.

Check out the threads on the subject on the HDTV Programming forum.

The cameras are HD, but the control room is not. There is only one control room at the Sullivan Theater, so they would need to keep one control room operational (temporarily) while they built the new HD one. A big expense, and apparently it's been pushed off several times. Too bad, 'can't stand Leno.

Pat, the equipment I have will not pick up the Program Guide (Voom & Dish 6000). Regarding the PQ, it does not look crisp. I don't fit the channel demographic either, so there is little I watch on WB but when I tune it in, it has not looked as good as the other OTA HD channels, it appears softer, maybe it's the source?

Last week when I tuned in, there was lots of audio glitches and picture break ups going on. The other night when Walter enquired, I checked and all seemed well.

I'll check again over the weekend regarding the PQ and see how it looks.

Originally posted by dgehred
I'm anxiously waiting too, mainly for the Pro Football games. Come on FOX Portland - get it together already! Seattle is kicking our butt!
I gather that we're not going to get FOX in widescreen until KPTV has upgraded to HD.

Originally posted by Marissadad
I don't fit the channel demographic either, so there is little I watch on WB but when I tune it in, it has not looked as good as the other OTA HD channels, it appears softer, maybe it's the source? I don't fit the demographic either but I watch a couple of WB shows so I'll have something to talk about with my younger female friends. Yeah, that sounds believable.

Gilmore Girls is soft and grainy but it's shot in 16mm. I know I shouldn't be able to tell the difference but for whatever reason it has the poorest PQ of any HD show. Of course it's still perfectly watchable.

Smallville generally looks great. I think it looks sharp and detailed and the crazy oversaturated color appeals to my MTV Generation eyes. I've seen pixelization during fast motion scenes. In one scene a strobe light always filled the screen with white blocks whenever it went off. I don't think it's much worse than what I've seen on other local channels. The Olympics were much worse!

I've never had any of the break ups or other problems people have been having with KPDX.

Scowl,

Last year FOX has games in wide screen on 30-2 so I would imagine they will braodcast in widescreen again this year.

Not according to this thread....FOX Discontinues 480 Widescreen feed (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=444167)

On the subject of PSIP, I have an LST-3100A, When watching KATU and I flip the guide on, the programs on KOIN are all shifted one hour earlier. Last night for example it listed CSI as starting a 8:00 and Without a Trace at 9:00 and the eleven o'clock news at 10:00 pm. The station time on KATU was reading correctly.
On ALL of the other channels, when I switch on the guide it reads correctly, CSI at 9:00 ect....

Anyone else notice this?

Earl

Hi all,
Just happened on this area and thought I would ask whether there's anything special that I should know regarding Comcast's HD service and cable box, hookup, etc. in Portland/Beaverton?

I'm just getting a new HDTV (Toshiba 30HF84) delivered on Sunday (replacing a busted Panasonic analog) and am planning to have Comcast over early next week to update my service and box. Will they hook everything up correctly to maximize the signal quality/picture? Do they care? I'll be using a VCR and progressive scan DVD player as well (no receiver, going directly to set), in case this matters.

Any help or advise you can share with this new Portland HDTV user would be most appreciated. I am very concerned with picture quality and am willing to take the time to get it right.

Oh, by the way, with a new HD cable box, will the digital cable channels still look pixelated and not be able to keep up with the action? Drives me crazy on Fox Sports World watching soccer (field is blurry, field is clear, blurry, clear...). Do you know what I mean???

Thanks very much,
rmacdo

Go here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=339961&highlight=Portland+OR), thats the Comcast thread for this area.

Oops. Thanks for the link.

rmacdo

Originally posted by Pat Shearer
I'm not sure what you and Walter are talking about with the breakups during our HD feeds or the picture quality issues.Here's how KWBP-DT has been for me here in Salem. When the signal first came on OTA I remember seeing a great picture through my CM antenna and LG tuner - "Smallville" and a few other HD shows looked beautiful, and signal strength was steady at about 75%. Then, the signal was lost for awhile and I remember reading on this board about some equipment failure, waiting for a part, etc. Ever since the signal came back it has been weak and fluctuating for me, my strength level meter varies from 0-30% and is always jumping back and forth, and the picture is unwatchable. I get glimpses of a pixelated picture followed by a few seconds of blackness, and repeat. If I want to see the "Smallville" premiere it looks like I will have to connect to Comcast.

On the other hand...

KGW-DT had some annoying fluctuation in signal strength for me during the Olympics, not as bad as WB but quite unreliable. Then, all last week it was mostly "NO SIGNAL" on my screen. Now, suddenly, this week the signal is quite strong and steady, just in time for NBC premiere week. (Hmmmm...?)

KOIN and KATU are the only digital stations that have never failed me with loss of signal.

Originally posted by Richard Winfeld
Ever since the signal came back it has been weak and fluctuating for me, my strength level meter varies from 0-30% and is always jumping back and forth, and the picture is unwatchable. Now that I think about it, I did see their signal decrease from 89% to 83%-85% after they replaced the part that got fried.

Whoa! I just checked again. I'm only getting them at 73%-75%! Something has definitely changed on their end since I'm line of sight to their tower.

KPTV-DT showed the Giants-Philly game and the 49er-Falcon game at the same time. One was on 30-1 and the other on 30-2. I thought there was a hard and fast NFL rule that says "no" to any station airing two games at once from the same network in the same market. Any thoughts about this!

Shhh, don't blow the whistle. It would be nice to get an extra game each week. Maybe thet fell bad since they can't give us games in HD. BTW, I didn't catch the Seahawks game at home, what format was the game in?

hilladen: The Seahawks were in SD from New Orleans, at least as broadcast by KPTV, in regular 4.3. Seems WS is a thing of the past, according to another thread. So we don't get any Fox games in HD or WS.

On the WB front, I just finished watching Bobby & Jack (or was it Jack & Bobby?), and the broadcast was perfect via Comcast. Whatever earlier problems they were having, from 9 - 10 tonight they were gone.

Lastly, I want to send a big THANK YOU to Lee Wood at KOIN for having the foresight to turn off 6-2 during the entire HD coverage of the US Open and during the Raider's game today. That's just teriffic service to the local digital community! IMO, after watching games on ESPN all weekend and the Stanford/BYU game on Comcast last night, no one can beat CBS' HD productions for PQ.

Bob

My guess with KPTV airing two games is that FOX must be using the old WS feed for separate games now and KPTV forgot to turn one of them off. We should keep an eye on their subchannels and see if there are any other surprises. We deserve some bonuses while the rest of the country is enjoying FOX in HD!

Originally posted by ridgefamus On the WB front, I just finished watching Bobby & Jack (or was it Jack & Bobby?), and the broadcast was perfect via Comcast. Whatever earlier problems they were having, from 9 - 10 tonight they were gone.

Bob [/B]
I tuned this in for awhile as well, OTA and the PQ was very good.

Originally posted by scowl
My guess with KPTV airing two games is that FOX must be using the old WS feed for separate games now and KPTV forgot to turn one of them off. We should keep an eye on their subchannels and see if there are any other surprises. We deserve some bonuses while the rest of the country is enjoying FOX in HD!

Scowl: According to this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=444167, and the source is pretty authoritative, Fox is out of the widescreen business. So Portland is SOL for anything but SD until KPTV gets its equipment up and running.

Bob

KPTV is saying mid october at this point if I remeber correctly. Is that right?

I believe that's what one poster said he found out when talking to a receptionist. I'd take that source with a grain of salt. ;-}

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Scowl: According to this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=444167, and the source is pretty authoritative, Fox is out of the widescreen business.
Yes, in fact I just said this a few posts ago. That's why I think the second NFL game accidentally came through what used to be the SD widescreen feed before FOX went HD.

Originally posted by Pat Shearer
I'm not sure what you and Walter are talking about with the breakups during our HD feeds or the picture quality issues. I'm not seeing those myself although I don't watch a lot of our programming in the evenings. I guess I don't fit the young female demos that our programs target since I'm an older male viewer. Nothing has changed on our end that should affect those things. The only change is that I've been helping the guys at Clear Creek TV troubleshoot a problem they are having with our signal so I temporarily deleted our SD subchannel on Thursday afternoon of last week and we are still just running the single HD stream. The bitrate has not changed on the HD feed. I have not seen any problems in our OTA signal and we are still running the same transmitter power level as always.


Pat, I'm still having the continuous break-ups in KWBPDT (32.1). During the weekend, I made the following observations:

For channels 2.1, 6.1, 8.1, 10.1, 12.1 (receive without problems):

Power: ~80
SNR: ~29

For KWPDT 32.1 (continuous break-ups):

Power: ~80
SNR: ~17

In other words, in comparing KWPDT against other stattions, it looks like I'm getting the same signal strengh (~80) but for some reason the SNR is lower (17 vs. 29).
Pat, do you have any idea why the KWPDT signal would be more suceptible to noise than other stations at my location (approx 8-9 miles west to the towers, near Orenco Station in Hillsboro).

Originally posted by scowl
Yes, in fact I just said this a few posts ago. That's why I think the second NFL game accidentally came through what used to be the SD widescreen feed before FOX went HD.

I see, my misunderstanding. I didn't look at 30.1 until the afternoon 49er game and saw that 30.2 was providing the ol' test pattern. Didn't choose to watch Fox SD in the morning while there was a beautiful HD game on CBS. KPTV, take note!

Well, with no HD on KPTV or KPDX and the continual problems on KGW/NBC it is making it easier to choose anyway. :D

Earl

Walter, I checked WB last night and got these numbers:

Signal Quality: 86
Power/SNR: 76/18.62

The other channels had SQ closer to 100 and SNR over 30. Is WB broadcasting full power?

Originally posted by Marissadad
Walter, I checked WB last night and got these numbers:

Signal Quality: 86
Power/SNR: 76/18.62

The other channels had SQ closer to 100 and SNR over 30. Is WB broadcasting full power?

Interesting, my numbers are very similar:

Signal Quality: 86
Power/SNR: 80/17.82

But I get continuous breakups :( while you don't have any problem
:confused: :confused: :confused:

I thought I was the only one who wasn't having any breakups with KWBP, probably because I can see their tower through my front window!

And Marissadad's in Woodburn too :). FWIW, I haven't really watched any shows on WB lately, but I have flipped in a few times to see how it was doing and haven't noticed any breakups on my setup (very close in).

ron

I think I'm in the perfect location for OTA signals, about 25 miles as the crow flies with no obstacles between myself and the towers. I even get pristine OTA Analog with KATU the exception but even that comes in clean 80% of the time.

Speaking of receiving the WB, it is the only channels I have problems with. I used to be able to get it okay but then I put in an attenuator to help with the other channels and now I can't get it all.

Originally posted by hilladen
Speaking of receiving the WB, it is the only channels I have problems with. I used to be able to get it okay but then I put in an attenuator to help with the other channels and now I can't get it all. Try a variable attenuator; then you can adjust it as necessary for different channels. That's one of the many things I tried in my own futile Quest for Perfect Reception. <g>

Did anyone else notice that on channel 12-1 and 30-2 while watching Bernie Mac, the HD symbol was on my channel guide. Was the program actually shown in HD (the picture look real clear and crisp). Did the splicer get online after all?

Was it 4x3 or 16x9?

ron

Ron:

I honestly don't remember......but I think it was is 4X3. I had my tv picture sent to 16X9 but full screen at 4X3. The TV show before it had the HD symbol on my channel guide. Also the next program that is scheduled (hd symbol in my guide) is a movie on Sunday or Monday. It was the first time that I have seen the symbol.

Bernie Mac did not have an HD symbol in my Voom EPG and normally they are quite accurate.

Well it sounds like Bernie Mac was in HD for those affiliates that have their splicers up and running. I was just wondering if perhaps KPTV was a little further along than Ed thought they might be at this point and they were possibly testing already. Since the "Fox Widescreen High Resolution" is gone now (apparently replaced with "Fox Widescreen High Definition TV"), I would think that any 16x9 we see at this point would be a very good sign of them making some progress with the install. Hopefully it should be pretty soon now. I'd love it if they could actually get KPDX up in time for the 2 part Enterprise season opener next month.

ron

Originally posted by R11
I'd love it if they could actually get KPDX up in time for the 2 part Enterprise season opener next month.

ron

Not to mention for the rest of the NFL season :D

Bob

I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that KPTV is much higher on the priority pole so I'd be highly surprised if you didn't get your wish before I get mine :p.

ron

I'm kind of slow and maybe it has to do with how closely I view the connection between KPTV/KPDX but reading the last two comments made me realize we could actually get one and have to wait 2 -3 months to get the other.... :eek:

Earl

I don't know. It sounded to me like they planned on getting them both up within a close time frame from the last info Ed sent. But you got me to wondering just how "connected" their two systems are/will be now that it's more or less a jointly run operation so I sent another email asking if he could pass on any more details. Kind of fishing for an update on their progress at the same time. Got an "out of office for a couple days" auto-reply that said he'd be back tomorrow. If I hear anything back I'll post it up.

ron

Cool, that would be great to get some more information!!

Like you I've been under the impression that they would go live about the same time but when I got the thinking about what we actually "know", we really don't know much other than an approximate date and that they will be 720p for FOX since they'll be using the splicer.

I apologize if I didn't search enough through this thread to find this answer, but I couldn't figure it out. On my Hughes HDTivo, guide data is provided for 12-1, but I only receive a signal on 30-1. I understand there are maybe mapping issues or something like that, but I don't quite understand how it works. Is my situation fixable so that I can try to record shows from the guide? The only other way to do it is to manually record by date and time...I use a silver sensor OTA for my locals.

Thanks in advance.

Hi all,

I posted this on the Portland Comcast thread and realized it is not a Comcast specific question I have dealing with component input/output.

A while ago Comcast tried to install the Moto 6200 to my Philips TV via the DVI, worked at 480p but picture scrambles when the 6200 was switched to 1080i. They tried again with my TV and another fellow who also has the same Philips TV I do with no luck. I had Comcast take the box back. My TV works fine with my Sammy 165 via DVI. The TV has component(AV4) that the DVD is hooked to and the DVI(AV5), if the hi-def goes to component (AV4) I loose the DVD.

I have a Pioneer VSX912K receiver that has component switching(2 in/1 out). I hear that only certain receivers are HD compatible in their component switching. Problem is I don't know if the 5Hz-40MHz freq range of the component switch is enough for 1080i, I have heard many ideas such as 33MHz is enough, others say 60MHz or 80MHz is needed.

Please feel free to get technical and tell me why it won't work. I'd have thought that the receiver acts like nothing more than a relay to switch the electrical path, there is no processing going on.

Thanks, Chuck

FWIW, 30 Mhz is plenty to pass HD. I have a Yamaha HT 5480 rated at 29 Mhz and I see NO signal degredation at all. The Outlaws did testing to determing the optimal bandwidth for their new pre-pro line and determined that no more than 40 Mhz was necessary or noise could creep into the image.

I use an Audio Authority 1154A switch which has 4 ins/1 out and don't use my receiver for switching anymore, I have too many boxes.

Here ya go: Ron, feel free to copy the following to the board. I don't participate as
much as I'd like to due to being beyond swamped most of the time.
Thanks for keeping in touch.

We're targeting October 15th to switch over to HD on KPTV-DT and
KPDX-DT. This has nothing to do with Fox's equipment, which will be
installed here next week (Tuesday, in fact.) It has to do with the
arrival of HD upconversion, audio embedding, ATSC encoding and PSIP
hardware which is all due to arrive between roughly September 20th and
October 10th. Some of it's going to be a tight squeeze to make the
15th. KPTV and KPDX Are being built at the same time and one will not
delay the other. They share only the PSIP generator

Official announcements and promotional information will begin to be
published by the stations as soon as we get "hard dates" on the delivery
of most of the vital gear (like the ATSC encoders, for instance...) but
right now, the 10/15 date looks like its achievable.

Ed


So it looks like just about four more weeks. With any luck I'll get to see the 2nd half of the two-part season opener for Enterprise in HD. If I were a betting man I'd guess that it'll probably end up being the third episode though... Anyway, only a couple weeks off what they targeted back in July so not too bad I'd say.

ron

Cool, thanks for the update Ron & Ed.

Thanks for the update Ron, it sounds like good news. At least we'll get to see the Enterprise season opener in HD when they reshow it four or five weeks into the season. :p

ptorio, can't help you, but if you don't find an easy solution, maybe give it a few weeks until KPTV goes HD and see if the 30.1 is remapped to 12.1 then.

Earl

Okay, something has changed with the WB. I was unable to even get a picture before and now I can get a picture that pixelates every now and then. I know weather can be a factor but thunder storms and large wet swaying douglas fir trees usually don't help my ability to recieve OTA digital signals. I noticed some figures being tossed around a few posts back, could there have been a change there that would have helped with me reception or is it quite possibly something else?

I have a newbie question. Where are the transmission towers for the local HD (and soon to be HD) stations? How likely am I to get a good signal on the various channels living in North Portland near I-5? Any chance of catching any of the signals with an indoor antanna?

I've got Comcast cable at the moment and am generally happy with it. I have a strong preference for not fooling with antennas on the roof but I'm annoyed I likely won't be able to see any HD football from CBS so I'm wavering.

doretta, they are clustered on the west hills. Go here http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and click "Choose an antenna", input your address or at least your zip code and it will give you the direction and distance of each of the towers from your house. You're probably close enough an indoor antenna would work, but it also depends on what lies between you and the towers. Once you know just where they are you'll have a better idea.

I'm not having any issues with the WB, it locks in at about 95% with a stable picture using a silver sensor. I'm in southeast Portland.

Earl

Originally posted by earletp
Go here http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx
Earl

Thanks, for the help. It says I'm pretty much exactly 5 miles from all of them. Orientation spans 12 degrees. Seems like that should all be pretty favorable.

So I guess I'm going to try a Silver Sensor and see what happens. Thanks again.

What's up with the audio on KOIN-DT, 6-1 today? After the HD game this morning as soon as they switched to the SD game from Oakland, there was no sound. I tried to tune in to CSI at 9 and no sound again. After watching Bobby and Jack (or is it Jack and Bobby?) on WB - good show BTW - , I switched to KOIN again and heard audio for the closing credits of CSI. As soon as Without A Trace came on, no more audio. So, off to bed.

As I recall from yesterday when the SEC game from TN came on, there were several minutes of static before someone took the program off air and then restarted the feed and all was OK. I think there are some problems at KOIN that I hope get resolved before the new season gets into full swing.

Bob

Yep, looks like a switching problem or something at KOIN. Did anybody watch the Emmys last night? I don't know if it was a local problem or the network feed but I kept getting periodic spazz outs. Not like normal dropouts but some strange stuff that was really messing with my receiver and audio amp :(.

ron

KOIN-HD was completely silent during "Without a Trace" until the 11PM News promos. Then it went slient again. The SD channel was fine though.

For me the emmy problems like R11 were very violent. They seemed to be mostly during national commercials(4/3). The local commercials(14/9?) seemed to be fine, but they were still commercials.

Lew

Did you guys notice hiccups during their SD broadcasts (6.1)? There were random or occasional simultaneous dropping of video and audio as if you were blinking your eyes slowly.

Hormoz

Yes, it was horrible. Koin 6-1 during Raymond and 2 and a half guys had so many hiccups and video problems I finally turned it to Directv channel 6 to watch it. Hopefully this is just growing pains and eventually it get smoothed out.

Originally posted by jesmith1263
Yes, it was horrible. Koin 6-1 during Raymond and 2 and a half guys had so many hiccups and video problems I finally turned it to Directv channel 6 to watch it. Hopefully this is just growing pains and eventually it get smoothed out.

I only noticed a couple of glitches in Raymond. I haven't watched 2 1/2 Guys yet.

Originally posted by rbonzer
I only noticed a couple of glitches in Raymond. I haven't watched 2 1/2 Guys yet. I only saw a few drops on both shows - certainly not enough to make me want to watch cable.

I watched CSI: Miami at 10:00 last night and didn't really notice any dropouts, but I did notice some thing else strange though. A few times while I was watching it seemed like everything was slightly slowed down and then some sections where it looked sped up, but in a digital, unsmooth kind of way. It was very minor to the point where I kept thinking to myself "am I seeing what I think I'm seeing?". At first when it was slowed down it thought it was something they had done on purpose as a kind of stylized shooting method maybe, but after I saw a few instances of the sped up sections I decided it couldn't be intentional. Was I dreaming? Maybe I'm going crazy(er)? I know, I know, but it's been a long time since my more "experimental" days ;).

ron

Ya know R11, I could have sworn I saw David Caruso's face melting at one point. It shocked me because I've never seen his face move before. :p

He is sooo bad. He just doesn't do emotion well at all. The scenes with the dying/dead Speedle were monumentally wooden. I knew it was coming so I was just waiting to see how he'd handle it. He did not disappoint :D.

ron

I watched CSI Miami last night on my 3410a. I didn't have any drop-outs but I had plenty of the "go fast" "go slow" stuff.

BTW- That will teach you to clean your gun once in awhile.

Lew

I watched CSI Miami recorded on my Panny E85H and there were many video freezes but the audio was fine.

I guess I have to take part of what I said yesterday back. I watched the finale of Amazing Race last night and there are plenty of those real brief video drops. With my receiver they are like Hormoz said, kind of like blinking your eyes so you just see a momentary black screen. The audio continues on undisturbed on my set up like Marissadad's. I guess I've become so conditioned to them now that I just tune them out and hardly notice them unless the audio goes too :confused:.

ron

I've noticed some people mentioning dropouts on KWBP-DT over the last few weeks. I hadn't personally noticed it when I tuned in, but I haven't been watching network programming recently. Well, tonight I tuned in to see the season premiere of Smallville, and it was continuously dropping packets, completely unwatchable… additionally, I was only getting about 65% signal strength, whereas previously I'd been closer to 80%. I'm still getting 90% on KOIN, 85% on all the rest with a Dish 811 and roof-top antenna, which hasn't been touched since I first peaked it.

Anyone else still experiencing the same?

KOIN-DT Monday night had the skips/blackouts on my Sony as well during the new Jason Alexander show. Watchable, but annoying. Wife asked what was going on...

KWBP-DT is unwatchable here; even with an outdoor antenna on a rotator, I cannot get a stable, storng signal. Noticeable weaker signal strength than the other DT stations.

I am on top of Cooper Mountain.

Mike

For a few minutes last night during CSI:NY, KOIN-HD forgot to switch back to HD after a commercial break. I was squinting at the fuzzy SD thinking, "Hey the picture isn't that bad. I can live with this." I stopped thinking that when they switched the HD back on. I was surprised I had put up with the SD feed for that long.

I was squinting at the fuzzy SD thinking, "Hey the picture isn't that bad. I can live with this."

I've been trying to convince myself of that every time I watch an SVHS recording of my second choice program of a time slot.
Don't get me wrong, having a choice is great but I'm losing the battle. Best Buy dropping the price another $200 on the 3410 isn't making it any easier.

Damn this HD sickness........

Originally posted by scowl
For a few minutes last night during CSI:NY, KOIN-HD forgot to switch back to HD after a commercial break. I was squinting at the fuzzy SD thinking, "Hey the picture isn't that bad. I can live with this." I stopped thinking that when they switched the HD back on. I was surprised I had put up with the SD feed for that long. I didn't… I immediately went to dexonline to look up KOIN's phone number. I tried their main line first, but it was just an after-hours recording. Then I tried their news line, got through to a person on the first ring… they said they'd get someone to fix it right away. It took 15 seconds after that, at most. GG, KOIN.

Three years ago it seemed like we had to call for practically every show. I guess we're making a little progress...

ron

Moorebid: Need you to do your magic trick with KOIN this morning. The CBS NFL game on now is not in HD. OK, I'll try.

Bob

Hmmm, no answer at the News line! Lee, is someone alseep at the switch?

Strange that 6-2 is not up and no HD on 6-1. 6-2 down usually means that Lee has prepared to not multicast during the HD football game. Anyone know if 6-2 was down all day yesterday?

WooHoo, it's up now in HD. Thanks, KOIN! Now the dilemma, Yanks/BoSox on INHD or NFL on CBS? Or go back to scrubbing the deck? :-(

I noticed that the hiccups or picture flashing on KOIN 6.1 had returned during the 60-Minutes broadcast this evening. There was even a momentary change in aspect ratio accompanied by one of the "flashes." Anyone else or am I having equip. problem?

Hormoz

Yes, I had the same issues while watching 60 minutes last evening - OTA, Sony 57XBR2 tuner; periodic black (very short, like a dropout), and one or two longer dropouts within the first 20-25 minutes. Since it wasn't HD, I switched back to my DirecTV SD boradcast.

Mike

I was hearing garbled audio this morning on 6-1 when I flipped by to check their weather.

A worse development though. Anybody watch any 8-1 this weekend? During times when they normally do their zoom/crop 14x9 they are now showing STRETCHED 15X9 :(. I noticed it as soon as I turned on the set Sat morning to watch the news as I read the paper. Fat faces and bodies :(. I called the news line after the football game began that way and they switched it to 4x3 (like it should be all the time for upconverted SD IMO). But it was back to stretched again yesterday morning so I called and talked to a lady in master control and she said it looked OK to her.... Guess I'll have to try to call today when the regular non-weekend staff is in to see if there are any answers.

ron

WB is still all garbled, I tried tuning in a few times this weekend and it was breaking up all over the place.

6, 8 and 32, each had some type of problem for me this weekend. 8 is still doing that stretched 15:9 thing this morning, just a touch more overscan and it will fill my screen. heh!!

On a semi positive note, channel 10 may be working on adding PSIP information. Instead of saying "No program information" it now has "DTV Program" in my guide.

Originally posted by R11
A worse development though. Anybody watch any 8-1 this weekend? During times when they normally do their zoom/crop 14x9 they are now showing STRETCHED 15X9 :(. I noticed it as soon as I turned on the set Sat morning to watch the news as I read the paper. Fat faces and bodies :(. I called the news line after the football game began that way and they switched it to 4x3 (like it should be all the time for upconverted SD IMO). But it was back to stretched again yesterday morning so I called and talked to a lady in master control and she said it looked OK to her.... Guess I'll have to try to call today when the regular non-weekend staff is in to see if there are any answers. I noticed the exact same thing on their Comcast HD channel. I also completely agree that they should put it 4x3 all the time as well.

--Chris

I watched Las Vegas OTA last night and the picture was perfect. Is it just the non HD that's messed up? I usually don't watch non HD on my pj, I relegate that to the old analog TV.

Yes, it was their upconverted SD on 8-1 that was stretched. I sent an email to Eric Dausman about it yesterday afternoon saying I hoped it wasn't a change in policy and I threw in plug to not only get rid of the stretch, but to just pass the 4x3 unaltered like Lee does at KOIN. He responded just before I left to go home and said he'd look into it. When I got home I checked the news and sure enough, 4x3 upconverts! And still the same this morning too so maybe they will leave them that way. If so it will be much better for stuff like Blazer games etc without top/bottom cropping and the slight zoom. I sent him an email this morning to thank him and give them further props on their good work :).

ron

Is anyone having trouble with KATU being a garbled mess and KGW off the air?

edited 'cause I just found KGW on 46-1

I have also found 2-1 all messed up. I get good audio, and video is a mess. I also foun 8-1 on 46-1. I guess the lost the remapping.

Edit 2-1 came back up at 10:00pm for NYPD Blue

Originally posted by R11
I was hearing garbled audio this morning on 6-1 when I flipped by to check their weather.I just tuned in to the news at 5, and while I wouldn't say the audio is "garbled," there's a noticable amount of static, even more noticable in the rear channels (using a PLII decoder).

Originally posted by earletp
Go here http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and click "Choose an antenna", input your address or at least your zip code and it will give you the direction and distance of each of the towers from your house. You're probably close enough an indoor antenna would work, but it also depends on what lies between you and the towers. Earl

Wow! Got a Silver Sensor delivered to my door today for under $30 total, took like two minutes to unpack it, put it together and connect it to the TV. Slapped it on top the TV aimed in what I thought should roughly be the direction of the TV towers. Pushed the ANT button on the remote and told the TV to scan for channels. Two more minutes to remove the fuzzy analog channels from the channel list and voila, perfect picture on all the local broadcast digital channels available at the push of a button.

Now I can watch HD football on CBS and I can anxiously await the first chance at HD Enterprise with the rest of you nerds without having to worry about when Comcast will start carrying it. Ain't life grand?

What's the deal with KATU? Trying to watch Lost and the picture is all wrong. Lots of green and other colors. Sound is fine. This isn't the first time I have experienced it and it is the same on multiple tuners.

I'm getting no picture at all, just sound.

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
What's the deal with KATU? Trying to watch Lost and the picture is all wrong. Lots of green and other colors. Sound is fine. This isn't the first time I have experienced it and it is the same on multiple tuners. I tuned into KATU-DT this evening about a minute beforehand to catch the second part of the Pilot of Lost, it was going along just fine for about the first minute while they recapped what happened last week, then a timer fired on my box tuning to KWBP-DT for Smallville (but since I can't get a usable signal from them, what's the point?), but I quickly hit the recall button to switch back… and as you describe, it was a jumbled mess of green blocks. I tried changing to different channels, all of which worked (didn't think to try ESPN, the only other 720p source available), but every time I tuned back to KATU-DT, it was all messed up.

Thinking it was my box, I power-button rebooted… didn't fix it… then I cut power to restart… still didn't fix it. Finally I called KATU… exactly the same story as KOIN, their main line was after-hours, but their news line picked up on the first ring. Now here's where things get a bit different… whereas the lady who answered the phone at KOIN was quite pleasant about it, the guy who answered for KATU was downright harsh… I told him, "Someone might want to check the HD broadcast, it all went to crap about a minute in," but before I could even finish the sentence, he interrupted me in a very snooty tone, "OK, THANK YOU!" and then promptly hung up. *shrug* Ah well, at least they fixed it within about 30 seconds, just in time to catch it before it came back from its first commercial… but I've no idea what I missed for the several minutes that it was out.

LOL Moorebid, you must have had the pleasure of speaking with Scott too. :D
In KATU's defense, when I called about the same issue last night a very nice woman answered the phone and told me she'd let them [control room] know right away and it was fixed within a minute or two.

Congratulations doretta, enjoy KOIN HD!! ;)

Earl

Originally posted by earletp
LOL Moorebid, you must have had the pleasure of speaking with Scott too. :DNo, it was… Noreem, or Norheem, or something like that. Kind of an unusual name.

In KATU's defense, when I called about the same issue last night a very nice woman answered the phone and told me she'd let them [control room] know right away and it was fixed within a minute or two.This speaks much of why he may have reacted the way he did… do they have this sort of problem frequently? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Moorebid
This speaks much of why he may have reacted the way he did… do they have this sort of problem frequently? :rolleyes:


I've seen it a handful of times as far back as last tv season.

I paniced when LOST freaked out, I quickly checked my 6000 that Iwas recording from and it was doing the same thing so I had to quickly switch to Analog (hallelujah! It worked ).

Regarding WB's breakups, I've narrowed it down to my Voom boxes. My 6000 tunes it in rock solid while the both Voom stb's breakup constantly. The SS on the 6000 stays around 75% and checking the Voom stb, the SS is also 75% but in Voom's antenna setup menu, it says 80% is required as a minimum for a solid signal, so either the voom 8vsb card is not as good as the Dish 6000 or I am getting a borderline signal.

Is WB full strength yet?

Originally posted by Moorebid
I just tuned in to the news at 5, and while I wouldn't say the audio is "garbled," there's a noticable amount of static, even more noticable in the rear channels (using a PLII decoder). Yes, "upon further review the call has been overruled", it is definitely static :). When I heard it the other morning it was particularly bad and I wasn't really paying a great deal of attention as I was getting ready to go to work. It seems to vary quite a bit. I actually called KOIN yesterday after work to complain about it in hopes that maybe they could address it before CSI came on but they just shuttled me into someone's voice mail in master control. I think it may just be on their locally originated programming though because CSI was fine but the static was back for the news this morning.

Is Lost not just sweet? I about freaked when 2-1 spazzed too. What terrible timing. I'm glad they were able to fix it quickly because it just isn't the same in SD with a large part of the picture gone and no DD.

ron

FWIW, Both episodes of LOST are being reshown back to back Saturday evening. and Yes, so far they have the hook in me. :)

This speaks much of why he may have reacted the way he did… do they have this sort of problem frequently?

Maybe that's the case, but I've only called them twice in the last year and both of those times were this week. On Tuesday I watched NCIS, but I had noticed KATU was already having problems, then at 9:00 I switched back to watch According to Jim and it was still garbled, so I watched Father of the Pride. I kept checking and nothing at KATU had changed and their sub-channel was also locked up and there was a reporter just sitting there with his mouth hung open. I finally called in shortly after 9:30 because if they didn't know it was hosed I wanted to give them time to fix it before NYPD Blue. Within moments after my call it was fixed, though the sub-channel stayed locked up well into the next day.
Because of that experience when LOST got lost, I called and was met with "Mr. Rude", now maybe because LOST seems to be popular they got more calls when it went down, I don't know, but it couldn't have been many before I called there wasn't enough time.

Earl

I have a feeling their phone lines lit up like a christmas tree almost immediately. I called too but couldn't even get through... After the opening half of the pilot last week people had been waiting anxiously for a whole week for the next episode and then, BOOM, pic goes out right after it starts.... :D

ron

Yep, KATU was sending nothing but green and purple squares and lines at 8PM last night. I started watching Lost in analog when all of a sudden KATU-DT started sending the best PQ I've ever seen from them. Wow.

I have a feeling their phone lines lit up like a christmas tree almost immediately.

If so, maybe that bodes well for us. They may not be able to "measure" us yet, but they have to know we're out here. :D

Earl

Scowl, I agree, after they fixed it, the PQ was stellar for 720P.

Is it just me or are we going backwards in local HDTV broadcast technology? I have been receiving local digital and HD signals for over 4 years now and it seems that the quality of the local stations digital/HD broadcasts have gone down hill from where they were a few years ago. I very seldom watch a HD program that isn't flawed with poor intermittent transmission signals, bad audio, or just plain forgot to throw the switch. The last few months have been the worst. Is it because digital/HD broadcast equipment and software is getting outdated because of Portland's early adoption of high definition? Maybe it's the slipped date of 2006 to who knows when analog channels will go away has caused the local stations to put no effort or funds into improving transmissions by acquiring new equipment and software to transmit a steady descent digital signal. I know not all of it is local, nor just a Portland problem. Reading other forum posts shows that other cities and states are having similar problems. I realize the local stations are just passing the signal for broadcast companies and some of the problem is with them and not the local stations. I know we are still a small viewing audience but we have been growing pretty steady. I was hoping when Comcast started to provide digital and HD broadcasts of local station that more and more customers would complain either to Comcast of the local stations and force the stations to start paying more attention to HD and clean up their act. I don't think that is happening. It is just so frustrating to sit down and try to watch your favorite HD programs and get so frustrated that you switch channels, turn it off, or even watch it in fuzzy analog (ouch). Or you have friends over to watch something special in HD and it all turns to crap. I record a lot of HD and have to throw out or delete a fair amount due to bad transmissions. High definition has been around for quite a few years now, why can't they just get it right?

Again, sorry for the venting........

Steve

I don't think that is happening. I had high hopes for the same thing Steve but I have to agree I don't see it happening either. It is extremely frustrating.

ron

I'm new to the HD OTA stuff here in PDX. Does FOX do their OTA in HD here? I tried to watch the Eagles/Bears, FOX said it was HD, but I didn't get it. KOIN had a good feed for 1st game- but game 2 didn't look HD. ESPN is awesome for the late game. MNF is always good. What gives with FOX? PS- I use Dish network HD reciever thru JVC 52" D-ILA.

Hopefully on the 15th they will be HD. Koin's 2nd game was SD. Fox is in the process of upgrading, along with UPN, sit tight, it's coming.

What's up with KGW-HD's broadcast of NASCAR racing? This morning the broadcast started in 4:3 and then, halfway through the race, all of a sudden it was switched to 16x9, albeit still not in HD. Is this KGW's handy work, or do you guys think it is the NBC feed that is the source of the problem? This is the second time I noticed this with KGW.

Steve, this is yet another example of what you were "venting" a couple of days back. Still, KOIN-HD has, by far, been the most consistent performer of the local HD broadcasters.

Hormoz

Crossing Jordan was OK this evening, I didn't watch NASCAR.

KGW does all right with the evening programs, but they've yet to get NASCAR right. The first few races I'd call in and ask them to please switch on the widescreen feed. A couple of times it worked, but mostly it didn't, so I've given up and just accept that sometimes they'll show the widescreen feed and most times they won't. Maybe next year, if rumors are true and NASCAR goes HD on NBC, they will be more attentive to their audience.

Earl

Earl,

I owe you a "thanks" for keeping the KGW guys honest! Let's hope these screw-ups get sorted out soon.

Hormoz

1. Does anyone else think it's odd that Paducah, KY (population: 26,307 and falling) has FOX-HD but Portland, OR does not? (Who's bankrolling Paducah?)

2. Welcome back, KWBP-DT! Everwood is not my favorite show, but I watched it in high-def because I could. If you're still going strong for Smallville (2 more days), I will be happy.

3. Speaking of Smallville, we need the weekend "easyview" (repeat) back! (Because of Lost!)

Originally posted by Richard Winfeld
1. Does anyone else think it's odd that Paducah, KY (population: 26,307 and falling) has FOX-HD but Portland, OR does not? (Who's bankrolling Paducah?) Their news department's budget is less than KPTV's so they probably have money to pay for the HD upgrade. :)

Originally posted by Richard Winfeld
1. Does anyone else think it's odd that Paducah, KY (population: 26,307 and falling) has FOX-HD but Portland, OR does not? (Who's bankrolling Paducah?)


Its not like its not coming soon. Give them the time they need.

(OK, maybe I have more patience, because 24 and Arrested Development haven't started yet.)

I agree. Their new equipment is already ordered and should be arriving very soon. Then it's just a matter of installing and dialing it in. Keep in mind that they are upgrading two complete HD systems simultaneously (Fox and UPN). It should all be good soon enough (I guess nothing could be soon enough for the football fanatics though :) )

ron

Originally posted by R11
I agree. Their new equipment is already ordered and should be arriving very soon. Then it's just a matter of installing and dialing it in. Keep in mind that they are upgrading two complete HD systems simultaneously (Fox and UPN). It should all be good soon enough (I guess nothing could be soon enough for the football fanatics though :) )

ron Just a matter of installing and dialing it in! That's good! <eg>

Considering all the trouble the other stations have had, er, are still having, I'm not holding my breath. I'll believe it when I see it.

That was "in theory" of course ;) :D

ron

I'm having problems getting any signal from KOIN tonight and was hoping to watch the CSIs. Anyone able to pull them in?

Bob

I just watched 60 minutes and it was in 4:3 format. Network said it was HD, but didn't look it to me.

I'm not having any luck with 6-1 either.

Working fine here in SE and has been all evening.

Originally posted by fish mojo
I just watched 60 minutes and it was in 4:3 format. Network said it was HD, but didn't look it to me. Did I miss a memo? When has 60 Minutes ever been HD? (not that I'd care to watch even if it was, but just for the novelty…)

I watched the end of the local news and the beginning of ET and then CSI:NY last night with no reception probs, and just a few minor audio drops here and there during CSI. They continue to be plagued with the very bad static-y audio on their local programming though. Lee, are you out there lurking? What's the deal with the static? Will it be fixed any time soon? Now that Kelly Day is back I can almost handle Jeff G on your news but the audio is a major downer...

ron

I can almost handle Jeff G on your news

Then you have a much stronger constitution than me -- or my wife!

Originally posted by R11
Lee, are you out there lurking? What's the deal with the static?
According to his HDTV web site, Lee is out of town until Oct 14th.

Up to this point I've really only noticed the static on the local programming but last night it seemed like the network upconvert of Survivor even had a little. Nothing like the non-network stuff though. And the HD CSI was clear as usual.

ron

Originally posted by R11
Up to this point I've really only noticed the static on the local programming but last night it seemed like the network upconvert of Survivor even had a little. Nothing like the non-network stuff though. And the HD CSI was clear as usual.
Every week there are audio glitches on Joan of Arcadia. It's practically the only HD show my wife and I watch together, and she jumps each time a glitch hits. Just once I'd like to watch an episode without that happening...

Interestingly, on a recorded SD episode (off of Comcast cable) there were also audio glitches!

Any bets on the readiness of FOX on the 15th?

Too bad UPN couldn't make it by tonight, Enterprise is premiering.

Jim, sorry, when I said the HD CSI was clear I meant it didn't exhibit that continual static sound that their other programming has been plagued by recently. The HD shows do have the usual (standard :( ) dropouts. FWIW, when I get the regular dropouts on the HD shows they are basically silent though. No startling speaker popping or anything...

It is too bad about Enterprise on KPDX in SD tonight. It would be nice to see it in HD. With the second half of the premiere/story line wrap up scheduled for next Friday the 15th, we'll probably need some luck to even see that in HD. I'm keeping my fingers crossed Ed & Co can work some magic for us, but it's one of those "hoping for the best but expecting the worst" kind of things I'm afraid.

ron

There's an article in OregonLive about KOIN not feeding Comcast an HD signal and the guy states that Fox will fireup on the 15th, let's hope it's true.

Originally posted by Marissadad
There's an article in OregonLive about KOIN not feeding Comcast an HD signal and the guy states that Fox will fireup on the 15th, let's hope it's true. Here's a link (http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1097237133178610.xml) for those less-inclined to go looking for it.

What Emmis is doing should be illegal. They're providing a public service - one which is at least partially subsidized by the federal government - on frequencies for which they don't pay, and they want to shake the cable companies down for some extra revenue? Where do they get the balls?!

What about the limited basic cable rates which must remain below a certain amount? There are laws in place to prevent that cost from rising… are the cable companies expected to swallow any additional costs as a result of greedy local affiliates? *shrug*

I guess "must-carry" no longer applies…

Hi All,

I've done some searching through this thread about the model of HD receiver that I just purchased: Samsung SIR-T351. I immediately ran into older posts from Lee about the problems people were seeing with this model and decoding PSIP info on KOIN-DT. I just got the outdoor UHF antenna that I'm going to use, and I'll be installing it this weekend.....So, I haven't done a true test with the receiver yet. In my searching I can't really find anything beyond March of this year about whether or not Samsung has addressed any of the problems people were seeing with this model. Does anyone have any current information on this model?

As a FYI, I ran home at lunch with a co-worker, and he held the antenna at ground level, while I let the 351 go through its channel memorization. KOIN seemed to come in fine.......

Thanks,
Scott

PS Any advice on current models of OTA receivers that people have would be greatly appreciated in case I have to return this model. Plus, I would love to hear where you purchased it.

Hmmm, KPTV looks very very dark tonight.

Could this be a sign?

I'm getting KPTV as 12-1 instead of 30-1 tonight and it's showing as 720p. :)
KPDX is still 480 though :(

Oh and the KPTV sub-channel is gone for now and the program guide is working too.