Yeah, their PSIP guide is suddenly working:

Channel KPTV-DT(12-1)
**Event 2004-10-08t10:00:00, duration 1:00:00 'Montel Williams'
**Event 2004-10-08t11:00:00, duration 0:30:00 'Family Feud'
**Event 2004-10-08t11:30:00, duration 0:30:00 'Family Feud'
**Event 2004-10-08t12:00:00, duration 1:00:00 'Perry Mason'
:

Very interesting.

I guess it will be Sunday before we really hear the whoops and hollers, unless of course they didn't get the splicer installed and then it will just be hollers. :D

Earl

Woot! Well, at least they got PSIP and their 720p encoder online, now we need to keep an eye out for the "FOX" logo just outside the 4:3 frame to know if the splicer's online.

Also, as of 2:30am this morning, I'm getting virtually no signal from KPDX or KOIN. My Dish 811 registers "49%," which is what it registers if it sees something, regardless of how low it may actually be. Previously, I'd been getting 80% and 90%, respectively.

This all sounds very encouraging

I guess that's why my 6000 had a brainfart when I tried tuning in Fox yesterday, I'll have to reset it for 12-1.

I about had a heart attack when I turned on Enterprise last night because I monitor all my sources on an old Commodore computer monitor and the image was 16:9, so I flipped on my PJ and it was letterboxed. I had my Voom stb set to stretch & Zoom 4:3 material so it looked like a normal HD window on the monitor. Oh well, maybe next Friday?

So is fox HD online? Titan TV states the 2 playoff games today are in HD. Just wanted to see if I am going to really get them in HD.

Also, I have a Winegard HD7082 antenna on my roof. I am in Camas on the east side of Prune hill, so the hill and houses hinder my signal. I am only getting 32% on FOX, which is not very reliable. I have a Winegard UHF preamp that I am going to try. Anyone successfull with a preamp?

It looks like KPTV-DT will still be a black screen during the playoff games today.

Aha, it looks like my tuner is just having a dickens of a time syncing with KPTV since they have the PSIP thing going now! Whew!

Well, the Yankees/Twins game does not appear to be HD. Anyone else agree it doesn't look like HD?

Well it's 4:3 so obviously it's not HD. It's a good upconvert though.

Originally posted by Gipper66
Hi All,

I've done some searching through this thread about the model of HD receiver that I just purchased: Samsung SIR-T351. I immediately ran into older posts from Lee about the problems people were seeing with this model and decoding PSIP info on KOIN-DT. I just got the outdoor UHF antenna that I'm going to use, and I'll be installing it this weekend.....So, I haven't done a true test with the receiver yet. In my searching I can't really find anything beyond March of this year about whether or not Samsung has addressed any of the problems people were seeing with this model. Does anyone have any current information on this model?

As a FYI, I ran home at lunch with a co-worker, and he held the antenna at ground level, while I let the 351 go through its channel memorization. KOIN seemed to come in fine.......

Thanks,
Scott

PS Any advice on current models of OTA receivers that people have would be greatly appreciated in case I have to return this model. Plus, I would love to hear where you purchased it.

I would like to hear from any newer Samsung owners as well. I had an old SIR-T150 which had a horrible time with the audio on 2-1 (KATU). I don't want to repeat that mistake again and wondered if the newer Samsung units don't have this problem. Anyone ?

I have a SIR-TS160. I really haven't had any real problems. A couple of times the audio has gone out on KATU but I have reset it and it works fine.

Originally posted by Dave Waymire
I would like to hear from any newer Samsung owners as well. I had an old SIR-T150 which had a horrible time with the audio on 2-1 (KATU). I don't want to repeat that mistake again and wondered if the newer Samsung units don't have this problem. Anyone ? My SIR-T165 is working fine with KATU (and KOIN), though it does take a while to acquire the KATU-DT signal. No audio problems in recent memory.

Well, I am not having very good luck getting signals here.

I live in Camas, on the east/back side of Prune Hill. I have a Winegard HD7082 on my roof. It is about 6-8 ft above my roof. I am using Belden 1694A coax throughout. My run from the antenna to the splitter in my Leviton Integrated networks box is ~40ft. Then one outlet on the splitter goes to my HTPC to a MYHD card on a cable that is about ~15ft long.

Here are my signal numbers:
2-1 and 2-2: 64%
6-1 and 6-2: 69%
8-1 and 8-2: 21%
10-1: 32%
12-1: 21%
32-1: 40%
49-1: 18%

This makes 8-1,8-2,12-1, and 49-1 pretty much unwatchable. All the others seem pretty reliable.

I just installed a Winegard AP-4800 preamp. That is a UHF only 28dB amp. It really didn't improve much if at all. Here are my new numbers:

2-1 and 2-2: 64%
6-1 and 6-2: 69%
8-1 and 8-2: 32%
10-1: 36%
12-1: 25%
32-1: 44%
49-1: 25%

Any idea why the preamp really didn't improve my signal? Any other ideas to improve reception?

Oh, by the way analog reception on all the VHF channels is beautifull. WB is not so hot.

KATU completely missed the switch again this evening for Desperate Housewives. I was over at a friend's house watching, and it was something of an ordeal finding the right phone number, searching DexOnline to no avail, finally finding their number way at the bottom-left of their page.

For future reference:
KATU News Desk - 503-231-4264
KOIN 6 TV News - 503-464-0614
KGW Newsroom - 503-226-5111
KPTV News Hotline - 503-548-6550 (which should cover KPDX as well)
KWBP - doesn't appear to have an after-hours line

After going through about four different numbers, I finally hit the right one and got a guy on the phone that was… shall we say, "clueless?"

Me: "Yeah, I'm just calling to let someone know they need to 'flip the switch' on the HD broadcast, Desperate Housewives is coming through in SD."
Him: "Desperate Housewives? Yes, that's on right now…"
Me: "…uhh, yeah, but it's not in HD."
Him: "…HD?"
Me: "High Definition?"
Him: "Yes, we have High Definition."
Me: "Right, but you're putting it out in Standard Definition."
Him: "*rather lengthy pause* Umm… ok, who would I call?"
Me: "…the… Control Room?"
Him: "*you could hear the gears grinding* Uhh-okay, I'll let someone know…"

I'm guessing he thought he needed to call the network. :) Fortunately, it only took him about a minute to find someone… and at least he wasn't as snooty as the last guy, but it looks like we're in for another season of ignorance. I'm programming my speed-dial now…

I began watching "Desperate" on Comcast and it took me a few minutes to realize I had black bars on the sides of the picture - SD. So I switched inputs to OTA and by the time I got all that squared away, the OTA pic was HD. I flipped back to Comcast and all was well. So thanks for taking the initiative on this one, Moorebid! And thanks for the list of numbers. I had written a few of them in the margin of my Dex white pages for quick reference.

Bob

Originally posted by Moorebid
KATU completely missed the switch again this evening for Desperate Housewives.... it looks like we're in for another season of ignorance. Has anyone ever heard whether this switch-flipping will soon become automatic, or are we all doomed to eternal purgatory?

Had to call KGW yesterday (Sunday) morning right after the start of the NASCAR race, and asked the guy on the other side to please "flip the switch" to turn the picture into wide-screen. The amusing thing was that the guy did not have a clue what "Wide Screen" meant!

I suppose if enough of us call them, they'll eventually get the message.

Hormoz

It really makes me wonder what kind of people they have answering the phone if they don't even know what "wide screen" meant. Did you ask him if he knew that he worked for a "television" station?

Originally posted by hilladen
It really makes me wonder what kind of people they have answering the phone if they don't even know what "wide screen" meant.
Off-hours? probably, the janitor :D

What I can't understand is why it's so hard for them to come up with a process for "flipping the switch" without having to be reminded by their viewers. Perhaps we should send them a package of Post-It notes.....

Originally posted by johnand
Well, I am not having very good luck getting signals here.

I live in Camas, on the east/back side of Prune Hill. I have a Winegard HD7082 on my roof. .... Any idea why the preamp really didn't improve my signal? Any other ideas to improve reception? .... Oh, by the way analog reception on all the VHF channels is beautifull. WB is not so hot. Welcome to Antenna Hell. I live in a bit of a hole in Tigard and had to try 3 or 4 different antennas before I found one that worked for most of the channels. You might try a dedicated UHF antenna rather than a combo for the digital channels. If you search, you'll find a lot of recommendations. You might also try a good indoor antenna like the Silver Sensor. Believe it or not, there are one or two stations I can get better with that than with my big rooftop antenna.

If you have the patience to keep experimenting, you'll find what works best for your area.

Moorebid, thanks for the numbers and for calling, I was highly irritated when they started showing this in SD, especially since I am archiving the series to DVD.

Originally posted by Gipper66
Hi All,

I've done some searching through this thread about the model of HD receiver that I just purchased: Samsung SIR-T351.
...<snip>...
Does anyone have any current information on this model?

...<snip>...

Thanks,
Scott

PS Any advice on current models of OTA receivers that people have would be greatly appreciated in case I have to return this model. Plus, I would love to hear where you purchased it.

Update to the above:
I got the antenna hooked up this weekend and did some testing. Here is what I've seen so far with this model:
- My 351 did not find KATU (channel 2-1, 2-2, ABC, broadcast freq=43) during its channel memorization sequence.
- I was able to watch KATU by changing the channel on the 351 to 43. The signal strength was shown as 9 (I think out of 10), but everytime that I first switch to it, it has a blank screen for 2 - 5 seconds, shows the "No Signal" prompt on the screen, and then finally the picture comes in fine.
- Even when watching KATU on 43, it was the only station that my 351 wasn't able to read the station call letter info (ie. KATU-DT). All other stations it was able to show the call letters when I pressed the info button. KATU also never showed up as "2-1" and "2-2"....it always shows up as 43-1 and 43-2.
- The only station that seemed to be broadcasting show info was KOIN. I found this by pressing the Guide button on my 351 remote.
- A couple of times while watching KATU, I noticed the video and audio are out of synch. I saw this last night during MNF and a couple of times over the weekend. I'm using the optical digital output into my AV receiver for the audio signal.

Other than those things, I am getting 9 for signal strength on every station except UPN 49 where I'm getting an 8. I am just not sure if I should keep this or return it and try and find another model of receiver (though it has been hard to find many OTA-only receivers locally).

All advice welcome....

Scott

WB should also have guide info according to what Pat told us earlier, I can't verify this since I don't have a box with PSIP Guide capability.

Originally posted by Marissadad
WB should also have guide info according to what Pat told us earlier, I can't verify this since I don't have a box with PSIP Guide capability.
I was afraid of that, esp. given the original problem that Lee posted about this model and decoding PSIP info.

WB should also have guide info according to what Pat told us earlier

The WB's guide data disappeared about a month ago and hasn't come back since. Also, KPTV no longer is showing guide data either, even though right after they switched on the 720p and remapping to 12-1, they were. It's been missing from KPTV for a couple of days now.

So right now KOIN is the only station broadcasting the program guide.

Even when watching KATU on 43, it was the only station that my 351 wasn't able to read the station call letter info (ie. KATU-DT). All other stations it was able to show the call letters when I pressed the info button. KATU also never showed up as "2-1" and "2-2"....it always shows up as 43-1 and 43-2.

Hi Scott, I can't really give you any advice but I can tell you I have an LG LST-3100A and all the channels remap, including KATU-DT, and show the station call letters.

I ran into the same problem of not being able to find much in the way of OTA STB's either. At the time it was either Samsung or internet/mail order. Best Buy now carries the LST-3510 which adds a DVD player, but the choices still seem pretty limited. An HD-PVR is even harder to find...

I've been having problems with frequent dropouts and freezes on KOIN 6-1 for the last week or so. I'm using a Samsung SIR-T150. The other stations seem fine. Did KOIN change something recently?

JudyL5, where are you located?

I'm just north of Vancouver (Mt. Vista Area). The other Portland stations come in fine. I had no problems with KOIN until last week.

KOIN's been screwed up for awhile now, it comes and goes. My Voom stb picks up all of the local OTA digital channels now and it is very picky about the PSIP stream.

I noticed last night during the Simpsons (7:30 - 8) that UPN 49 was broadcasting PSIP that my Samsung SIR-T351 could read....

Originally posted by Marissadad
KOIN's been screwed up for awhile now, it comes and goes. In the past, my KOIN-DT reception with the Samsung SIR-T165 has had only a few audio glitches per hour. Last night "Clubhouse" was completely unwatchable in HD. The audio wan't the problem: the video stuttered, halted, broke up, etc while the audio merrily continued along without much trouble. I'll just watch in standard def until Lee returns from vacation, I guess. :rolleyes:

KPDX is now 1080i and KOIN, KPTV, and KPDX all have their program guides up and running.
HD Enterprise Friday!! :D

Originally posted by earletp
HD Enterprise Friday!! :D
WOOHOO!!!:D

What's up with OPB's HD lineup? I receive thier programming guide and for the next 2 weeks it shows 10 programs in HD, that's sad. I wish they would mirror the National PBS feed so we could get some decent shows.

OPB seems to have a lot less shows in HD anymore, even shows like History Detectives which were HD are now shown widescreen SD.

Still, it's a good day for HD in Portland, OR. All of our local stations are now broadcasting in HD, with only the FOX splicer left to come online and that should be anytime now, if it isn't already. We'll know at 5:00 when the game starts. :)

It's about time to start working on Pat to get the WB program guide fixed. heh!!

How are the upconverts looking on KPDX?

Speaking of OPB, the "Choice 2004" show profiling the two presidential candidates that ran in SD upconvert letterbox last night was very good. I recommend anybody who will be voting to watch it. Seemed like a very fair and even-handed piece that cut through all the BS IMO.

ron

Now will come the announcement that Enterprise is being canceled like Angel was on the WB when KWBP went HD. LOL!

How are the upconverts looking on KPDX?
Like upconverts. :p
They don't suffer any problems that any of the others stations don't and they might even be a little better than some.

Like KPTV, KPDX has a sound level issue compared to the other stations. Their audio level is on the low side so make sure to turn down the volume before changing channels. ha!! :eek:

Is Fox going to broadcast DD 5.1? What about WB & UPN, I'd think since all 3 are brand new facilities they would have the capability.

DD 5.1 is supposed to be part of the splicer install, so FOX should be 5.1. I'm not sure about UPN or WB or if they even have any 5.1 shows. Like with KGW, it may not matter for a while. I would hope they do though.

Like upconverts. :p Niiice :D. Actually I was thinking from a bandwidth standpoint. They had their feed at such a low level before the picture barely held together...

ron

Originally posted by Cris Moore
Now will come the announcement that Enterprise is being canceled like Angel was on the WB when KWBP went HD. LOL!

They have already said this will most likely be the last season. I just hope UPN-HD makes it comcast for at least part of the season. :)

Originally posted by earletp
OPB seems to have a lot less shows in HD anymore, even shows like History Detectives which were HD are now shown widescreen SD. Their widescreen SD sometimes looks pretty good though. I'm not sure why SD upconverted to 1080i always looked better than broadcast at 640P, but I've noticed it several times.

Still, it's a good day for HD in Portland, OR.No kidding - if Enterprise goes HD on Friday, we'll have five channels broadcasting HD at the same time!

Have you guys noticed the sorry-looking OPB-DT views of the Oregon coast (along with sound) that they show during the program breaks? I assume it is SD! Even the letters they use to show various station call letters, etc. on the bottom of the screen seems to be of poor quality.

BTW, FWIW I did exchange e-mails with some OPB station engineer about a year ago, and did not get any clear response as to why their digital broadcasts do not mirror the PBS feed. I actually wish it would mirror their local SD program lineup! Still waiting...

if Enterprise goes HD on Friday, we'll have five channels broadcasting HD at the same time!Shoot, if they get that splicer fired up in time and the baseball game happens to go extra innings we could even have six popping, blinking, stuttering and getting all static-y at once ;).

ron

Originally posted by Hormoz
BTW, FWIW I did exchange e-mails with some OPB station engineer about a year ago, and did not get any clear response as to why their digital broadcasts do not mirror the PBS feed. I actually wish it would mirror their local SD program lineup! Still waiting...
I did the same thing and they responded saying they have "value" in their local productions. ;)

Kevin Hill's in HD, and it looks GORGEOUS! No compression artifacts thus far. *knock on wood*

EDIT: No sooner than I hit "Submit Reply," but they're in a club scene, with quick, full-frame luminoscity shifts… and the expected amount of macroblocking… still not bad, though, not bad at all. Kudos, Ed! Also, it appears they're repeating last weeks episode, due to the debate no doubt… same as they did for Veronica Mars last week.

Yeah, you're right... Kevin Hill is BEAUTIFUL! (and Gina Gershon ain't half-bad neither!)

WOO-HOO! More HD!! (I gotta start watchin' this show, it might be pretty good.)

I made a mistake, I think: I asked my Samsung SIRT-165 to scan for channels it could detect, and now 2-1 (43) is missing. Anyone else having any trouble getting KATU-DT?

Wow, Kevin Hill does look nice. That's great that UPN and FOX are up and running ahead of schedule! I think we should thank them for a job well done. Anyone have an email address?

Actually I was thinking from a bandwidth standpoint. They had their feed at such a low level before the picture barely held together...

From the few minutes of Kevin Hill I watched I agree with everyone else, it looks good and I don't think bandwidth is an issue, at least not yet. :)

KATU-DT is coming in fine for me, LOST looked great as usual. and I just checked and it's still coming in fine.

FOX isn't done yet, KPTV still needs to get the splicer installed, but yes, kudos on getting KPDX up and running!!

Originally posted by hilladen
Wow, Kevin Hill does look nice. That's great that UPN and FOX are up and running ahead of schedule! I think we should thank them for a job well done. Anyone have an email address?
PShearer@tribune.com
Try this one, he has several that I've corresponded with him at and this is from my home machine which I rarely use, most of it is done from work. ;)

I did a "new" scan today and have also lost KATU. If I tune to 43 manually, I get a good signal strength but no picture. I have a Samsung T150.

Originally posted by Marissadad
PShearer@tribune.com
Try this one, he has several that I've corresponded with him at and this is from my home machine which I rarely use, most of it is done from work. ;)

<pssst Marissadad, isn't that e-mail for Pat at KWBP not Ed at KPDX/KPTV?> ;)

JimProuty, I have the same receiver, I have the Samsung 165 receiver as well and I have intermittent issues with KATU. Every time it has been an issue with the receiver that is easily corrected by resetting the machine. The old tried and true: unplug, wait, plug back in.

Marissadad, are you trying to lead us astray?

Kevin Hill did look sweet! I flipped over and watched some of it after the debate since I knew it was one of their few HD shows, and was not disappointed. I happened to catch the bar scene as well and I would say that was pretty much the acid test which it handled decently all right. Enterprise should be a treat. From reports it has not had the best HD PQ in the past, although I don't believe I have read any reports yet for the first ep this season since they switched to capturing it in HD video instead of film.

It is nice to see the SD upconverts in the preferred 4x3 format without alteration on both stations. Hopefully they will stay that way.

I do have Ed's email addy but I don't want to give it out without his permission first. I sent him a message earlier this morning to tell him things were looking good, and asked if he minded if I gave it out because there was a ground swell of appreciation just waiting to be thrown his way :). The autorepy said he has been out of the office all week again and will be back tomorrow morning... Looks like he has his crack crew well trained I guess, whipping this all up while he's been out on the road.

ron

All the engineers involved certainly deserve a pat on the back for this. With all the problems every other station has had with HD broadcasting, I for one did not expect them to get this up on schedule and without a hitch.

That is true ceccacci. On the other hand, they're not finished yet so there's still much that may not go smoothly with the splicer. And then there's always the first time something something breaks down or switches are not thrown and you know that someone will be be sending them hate mail because their favorite show or football team isn't being shown in HD...

ron

Oh I have no doubt they'll have their share of problems; the technology appears far from the plug-n-play stage. But we actually saw an HD broadcast last night, before the 15th even. And it had both picture and sound, properly synched with each other, no excessive artifacts, no drop outs, pops and crackles, or any of the other common problems we have come to expect.

Let 'em celebrate while they can; as you say I'm sure they'll get their share of hate mail for problems later. <g>

Both picture and sound. Yeah!! :D :D

ron

Kevin Hill sure looked great but it had the pixelization problems you expect in flashing light night club scenes. I think like WB, UPN sends their affiliates a lower bitrate feed than the big networks so we'll be seeing more of this.

The upconverts also look very good. The Simpsons reruns are much less blocky and have less staircase aliasing in the lines. Other syndicated shows like Seinfeld look a lot cleaner with the new setup so whatever is doing the upconversion is doing a great job.

Originally posted by earletp
<pssst Marissadad, isn't that e-mail for Pat at KWBP not Ed at KPDX/KPTV?> ;)
Boy do I feel dumb :p You're right, I had WB on the brain since we were talking about it, DOH! Sorry guys, beat me with an antenna. :D

JimProuty & hilladen-

I also have the 165. I lost remapping to 2-1 a month or so ago about when I upgraded to 134. Now I get 43-1 after about 6 seconds, two of which say "NO SIGNAL" on the screen and then up it comes picture perfect.
The scan is too fast and the lock is too slow to catch 43. Once I punched it in directly it stayed there and comes up when surfing, but I still have to wait 6 seconds for the lock.

Lew

Originally posted by Gipper66

...<snip>...
- My 351 did not find KATU (channel 2-1, 2-2, ABC, broadcast freq=43) during its channel memorization sequence.
- I was able to watch KATU by changing the channel on the 351 to 43. The signal strength was shown as 9 (I think out of 10), but everytime that I first switch to it, it has a blank screen for 2 - 5 seconds, shows the "No Signal" prompt on the screen, and then finally the picture comes in fine.
- Even when watching KATU on 43, it was the only station that my 351 wasn't able to read the station call letter info (ie. KATU-DT). All other stations it was able to show the call letters when I pressed the info button. KATU also never showed up as "2-1" and "2-2"....it always shows up as 43-1 and 43-2.

...<snip>...

Scott

KATU-DT OTA gone?
I made a mistake, I think: I asked my Samsung SIRT-165 to scan for channels it could detect, and now 2-1 (43) is missing. Anyone else having any trouble getting KATU-DT?


I did a "new" scan today and have also lost KATU. If I tune to 43 manually, I get a good signal strength but no picture. I have a Samsung T150.


JimProuty & hilladen-

I also have the 165. I lost remapping to 2-1 a month or so ago about when I upgraded to 134. Now I get 43-1 after about 6 seconds, two of which say "NO SIGNAL" on the screen and then up it comes picture perfect.
The scan is too fast and the lock is too slow to catch 43. Once I punched it in directly it stayed there and comes up when surfing, but I still have to wait 6 seconds for the lock.

Lew

Is anyone else seeing a pattern here with Samsung receivers? All of this has convinced me to take my SIR-T351 back. I ordered the LG LST-4200A this morning from ****************.

Scott

Originally posted by earletp
KPDX is now 1080i and KOIN, KPTV, and KPDX all have their program guides up and running.
HD Enterprise Friday!! :D
It seems that all our local stations are getting ready for something: to sell 30% of their bandwidth to USDTV ;)

...and the weatherman said the rain showers would hold off until tomorrow. heh!!

Sorry in advance if I have missed something obvious, but....

If I am following the discussion correctly, FOX in PDX is now online with HD (720?) on 12-1. Programming forum indicates that network feed of the current LCS games are HD. Why am I not seeing HD MLB the last two nights?

Steve,

At the moment KPTV is only sending out upconverted SD programming. They still need to install/configure their FOX network splicer in order to pass through the network HD feed. They are working on this as we speak and it is scheduled to be online tomorrow.

ron

The news hour with Jim Lehrer looks much better in HDTV. Interestingly, everyone s face is razer sharp except for Jim Lehrer himself. He always has that out of focus SDTV look except for brief moments when he moves (he briefly comes into sharp focus). My guess is that some of the older newscaster prefer that to spare their faces the harsh scrutiny of HDTV.

UPN looks great too. Enterprise should rock.

Originally posted by R11

At the moment KPTV is only sending out upconverted SD programming. They still need to install/configure their FOX network splicer in order to pass through the network HD feed. They are working on this as we speak and it is scheduled to be online tomorrow.

ron

Thanks, Ron.... Probably should have read more carefully but took the lazy way out. I'll look forward to their success. Now that I'm plugged in with the hardware, I'll follow this discussion with increased interest.

Originally posted by yes dear
The news hour with Jim Lehrer looks much better in HDTV. Interestingly, everyone s face is razer sharp except for Jim Lehrer himself. He always has that out of focus SDTV look except for brief moments when he moves (he briefly comes into sharp focus). My guess is that some of the older newscaster prefer that to spare their faces the harsh scrutiny of HDTV.

UPN looks great too. Enterprise should rock.

I wasn't aware that News Hour was shown in HD here in Portland. Did I miss some grand announcement? Even tonight it was still shown in SD, as best as I could tell. A little clarification would be helpful. :confused:

Originally posted by lewlew
JimProuty & hilladen-

I also have the 165. I lost remapping to 2-1 a month or so ago about when I upgraded to 134. Now I get 43-1 after about 6 seconds, two of which say "NO SIGNAL" on the screen and then up it comes picture perfect.
The scan is too fast and the lock is too slow to catch 43. Once I punched it in directly it stayed there and comes up when surfing, but I still have to wait 6 seconds for the lock.

Lew Tuning 2-1 used to take 6 seconds to lock, before I unfortunately I re-scanned for channels (hoping to get UPN, FOX, etc).

I unplugged my Samsung 165 and let it sit for about 10 minutes, powered it on and scanned for channels. During scanning the tuner paused longer at channel 43 than at other channels, but then gave up and went to channel 44, etc. Tuning 43 directly gives no signal, no matter how long I leave it there. I have about 50% signal strength on all the HD channels I do get (KOIN, KPTV, WB, etc). Also, I see that 8-1 is moved to 46-1 and 8-2 is moved to 46-2. KGW-DT comes in fine at that channel, but I preferred it at 8-1 and -2.

I got an email from Samsung today about needing to "upgrade" my firmware to be compatible with the broadcast flag. There's a description here (http://www.samsungusa.com/broadcastflag) about it. When I checked my firmware version it seems to be very early: verson 101. The last firmware version that needs to be upgraded on the SIR-T165 is verson 118 (119 or later are compatible with the broadcast flag).

Perhaps the stations are broadcasting PSIPs that aren't compatible with my firmware, and also perhaps new firmware will correct that (or perhaps it'll turn my receiver into a useless lump of metal).

Originally posted by scowl
Kevin Hill sure looked great but it had the pixelization problems you expect in flashing light night club scenes. I think like WB, UPN sends their affiliates a lower bitrate feed than the big networks so we'll be seeing more of this.Supposedly, UPN follows the same model as CBS… 45mbps to the affiliate, which then reencodes to ATSC-spec. Seeing as how they're both owned by Viacom, this stands to reason… besides, the club scenes weren't nearly as bad as much of what I see from Smallville.

Hormoz,
I meant that Lehrer on the PBS HDTV channel is mainly shot out of focus. I am no expert. Do not know if the show itself is shot in HD. I am guessing that it is because the HDTV channel looks much better than dishtv digital. I tried to google this a while back to no avail. Maybe someone else here can help with your q.

Hi All,

Could those of you with newer STBs check the HD program guide to see if KGWs guide is working?

They put it on line yesterday and wanted some feed back.

The guide itself hasn't been updated by Tribune, but there should be some indication that there is data.

They put it on line yesterday and wanted some feed back.
That must be what broke the remapping, but it's back to 8 from 46 this morning.

The program quide for KGW says "DTV Program" now as opposed to "No program information".

KPTV and KPDX are showing no signal this morning.......

I have "regular schedule" listed in my program guide for KGW 8-1

From the OPB Digital Programming Email:

"OPB's DTV Schedule for October 13-31, 2004

From 8am-8pm, OPB simulcasts our channel 10 programming on
digital channel 27. From 8pm-11pm, channel 27 switches to
OPB's digital programming, including widescreen and high
definition broadcasts."

So, anything before 8:00 is just their regular programming (upconverted SD - including Jim Lehrer).

_____________________________________________

Here's a quick response I got from Ed at KPTV:

"Final transition will be made today. Stations are currently shut down
while we rip out the old rack and install the new gear permanently.

Ed"

It looks like a fast reply as he was going through his emails upon returning and no mention of giving out his email addy so for now... I have had him go back through and send replies with greater detail so he may yet give me the go ahead. Anybody that really wants to contact him I suggest just calling the station and asking them to see if they'll give it out because you want to thank them. They may just have a general Engineering email addy too. Anyway, sounds like they still intend to finalize the projects today so for the baseball fans out there perhaps you'll see some HD tonight afterall.

ron

Originally posted by Moorebid
Supposedly, UPN follows the same model as CBS… 45mbps to the affiliate, which then reencodes to ATSC-spec. Is WB the only network that only has a 14mbps feed to their affiliates? How many UPN affiliates broadcast in HD compared to WB affiliates? For some reason I'm thinking there are more WB affiliates broadcasting in HD but that could be because of the Enterprise fans' endless complaining about their non-HD stations. It seems like there should be an easy way to find these numbers on the net but I haven't found them yet.

Information on another thread says that WB is sending a 36mbps feed to its affiliates.

Originally posted by R11
Here's a quick response I got from Ed at KPTV:

"Final transition will be made today. Stations are currently shut down
while we rip out the old rack and install the new gear permanently.

Ed"

It looks like a fast reply as he was going through his emails upon returning and no mention of giving out his email addy so for now... I have had him go back through and send replies with greater detail so he may yet give me the go ahead. Anybody that really wants to contact him I suggest just calling the station and asking them to see if they'll give it out because you want to thank them. They may just have a general Engineering email addy too. Anyway, sounds like they still intend to finalize the projects today so for the baseball fans out there perhaps you'll see some HD tonight afterall.On their website, they have a generic "Reception and Technical" feedback form (http://www.kptv.com/Global/category.asp?C=14371&nav=2cFvBxI0), which sends an e-mail to Dennis.Beauchamp@meredith.com; I know this because it auto-replies with an out-of-office message (in all caps, no less) 'till the 18th. Now, anyone who knows Ed's last name could probably guess what his e-mail is… :)

Also, an update to the signal situation; I tuned in around 4:10pm to find KPDX-DT broadcasting normally, but KPTV-DT seemingly offline. Right before 4:30pm, they came back up with signal but no picture, and right before I clicked "Submit Reply" (4:33pm), picture returned as well. *crosses fingers*

It's Ed Williams :). Anyway, so you are saying KPDX is back on line and upconverting again then? I need to know whether I should be heading home after dinner to watch Enterprise in HD or if I should just head on over with friends to their house to watch in SD...

ron

Yes, both KPTV and KPDX are back up, and KPTV has HD baseball going on!!
So it's looking good for HD Enterprise.

Thanks!

ron

Originally posted by R11
It's Ed Williams :).Well, gee, make it easy for 'em, whydon'tcha! :)

Anyway, so you are saying KPDX is back on line and upconverting again then? I need to know whether I should be heading home after dinner to watch Enterprise in HD or if I should just head on over with friends to their house to watch in SD...Head home! Head home with the quickness! KPDX is up, in 1080i, fully prepared for Enterprise in HD! *quivers*

Update to KPTV… the Fox Pregame show started at 5:00pm, in SD… :( But then at 5:01, the splicer went online and I am now watching 16:9 again on Fox! Unfortunately, it's looking like an upconvert right now… check the edge of the guy's suit on the studio; while I don't see line twitter, I definately see visible scan lines… looks like they may be doing either a bob-deinterlace, or it may be shot in 480p… I'm leaning toward the latter. Also, it is rather noticably overcompressed. Not as bad as some of the basketball I saw from ABC last June, but still… for a 480p upconverted to 720p source, I would expect a little better compression levels. Well, we'll see how the game goes.

EDIT: Well, that was rather uneventful. Called on account of rain-fade… but the more I watched, especially with fast motion, but more I came to realize… it was definately an interlaced source, but I'm not so sure about 480i… it just looked too high-res for 480i, MAYBE it was 1080i to 720p, or maybe it was just a really good upconvert. I dunno, I haven't been following the Fox-HD sports threads, maybe this is already known.

Our first HD from FOX was rained out!

arrgh..... KPDX went black when they switched to the network feed.....

Then they had to fall back on their old SD feed! Oh well...

…and now they're SD. Looks like a network uplink problem.

EDIT: which isn't to say that it's the network's problem, just a problem feeding the network HD feed to their broadcast.

Also, just now (8:06pm), the audio just got noticably louder... and a commercial just ended, but it's all black again... now back to SD, argh!

UPDATE: 8:11pm, HD's UP! WOOT!

UPDATE: 8:12pm, HD's DOWN! D'OH!

UPDATE: 8:40pm, HD's BACK! Only 28 minutes later. *laugh* Ahh, the joys of the bleeding edge…

Hey, KPTV does have real upconverted HD coming from FOX through their splicer. The FOX bug is in the 16:9 zone. That's sort of exciting, I guess.

KPDX is HD right now? 48.1 looks like letterboxed SD upconverted to HD and 48.2 looks like old letterboxed SD.

Originally posted by scowl
Hey, KPTV does have real upconverted HD coming from FOX through their splicer. The FOX bug is in the 16:9 zone. That's sort of exciting, I guess. Yeah, a real big, blue FOX bug… I'd heard about the default bug being blue, but taking up the whole 16:9 area, all the way to the bottom? Didn't know that much… they should have their own bug soon enough.

KPDX is HD right now? 48.1 looks like letterboxed SD upconverted to HD and 48.2 looks like old letterboxed SD. It was HD for about a minute. Considering they're working on two different stations simultaneously, and since KPTV is just now coming online, I figure it's getting more attention. Also, I don't see any subchannels from KPDX, I just have 49-1.

KPDX is sending the typical crummy overcompressed SD on 48.2.

Originally posted by scowl
KPDX is sending the typical crummy overcompressed SD on 48.2. Yeah, I'm not seeing that at all. I've even tried re-adding the channel to my list, but my Dish 811 only sees one channel, no subchannel.

OK that's better. Now what's the episode about?

I don't normally watch ST:Enterprise, and now I'm finding out why. HD or SD, it's awful.

When 48.1 was sending upconverted SD, I was also getting regular 480p SD on 48.2. Once 48.1 went HD, 48.2 was suddenly mapped to 48.1. I scanned the stream a couple times looking for discrete streams and the second subchannel is totally gone. Good for them!

This was really hilarious to read! Head Home, hurry. It's up! It's down. LOL! Of course, I felt the same way watching Enterprise.

You have to have a sense of humor when stations go HD. Don't forget it's just stupid television! :)

Moorebid,
Thanks for the info. I was hitting buttons of the pj in the dark. Couldn't understand how keystone fixed my hdtv signal

Guys,

Let's see if the NFL on FOX will be any better tomorrow. If not, there's always next week! Keeping the fingers crossed...

BTW, Enterprise repeats on Sundays at 8:00 PM, so ther'e hope on that front as well.

Hormoz

To their credit, the guys at KPDX kept working on the problems last night until they got it working and KPTV has the HD FOX MLB up and running.
The comparatively low audio levels seem to be a local issue. The levels are much closer to the other stations once the network feeds are running.
So maybe as they get things tweaked that will get better.

Saturday afternoon and we have HD football, HD baseball and if KGW has their act together we'll have widescreen NASCAR.

Having all of our network stations in HD now is like living in the future. There aren't many UPN affiliates broadcasting in HD yet (only 1% of TV households).

Well, NASCAR went from 4:3 to 16:9 and back to 4:3 before the green flag.

"Living in the future" Lol, I like it!

Originally posted by earletp
Well, NASCAR went from 4:3 to 16:9 and back to 4:3 before the green flag.

Did you notice the audio lag (worse than dubbed Kong-fu movies)? I actually called them again and heard this funny response:

" It is intentionally delayed to prevent foul language from being broadcast." I din't have the heart to tell the news person who answered the phone that why the analog channel did not have the audio lag!!! somehow I think their solution was to just go back to 4x3 and not bother with tweaking the 16x9 to get it right.

Perhaps they should forget the whole 16x9 broadcast at KGW and leave it to the stations that have either the resources or expertise (or both) to handle it. Being tortured like this is not fun!

Now, looking forward to tomorrow's FOX and CBS HD football games...:)

The baseball game on Fox today sure looked sweet! I hope UPN get's fixed in time for Enterprise Sunday night.

Seahawks game not in HD???? Anyone got the story?

Looks like they're working on it, judging by the number of times the image freezes/goes black. So far no luck, tho.

Well that looks better!

Originally posted by Marissadad
The baseball game on Fox today sure looked sweet! I hope UPN get's fixed in time for Enterprise Sunday night. I thought it looked kind of dark but someone last night told me that Fenway Park isn't a bright field at night.

I've heard that the Sunday Enterprise rerun is never in HD.

Interesting how the FOX NFL halftime clips are all 16:9 but in upconverted SD! Widescreen SD will still be around some form for a while.

Originally posted by scowl
I've heard that the Sunday Enterprise rerun is never in HD.
CRAP! My Voom guide says HD, I guess I will have to submit to SD again. Maybe next week. ;)

OK, now that I've got a few minutes to get my head out of the HD racks, let me bring everyone up to date on Fox 12 and UPN 49's HD project that many of you have, um, "noticed."

As of 4:15 PM Sunday, our Fox splicer is timed so that net/local switches are clean without upcuts nor repeats. From here on out, if Fox is sending it in HD, we'll be switching to it. Sorry for all the stream interruptions, the only real way to see what's being transmitted is to transmit it and look at the return MPEG stream for anomolies, and when the network loads new settings, it takes the splicer offline momentarily. Normally, we'd bypass it, but that gets to be a pain after about the 30th time you do it, so we decided to live with the interrupts.

Local audio - I know, it's very, very low. We're looking in to it aggressively. For those who are interested, the new HD encoders we're using are, for some reason, not paying attention to the REF LEVEL settings for the digital embedded audio we're feeding them. The audio is at proper levels going in to the endcoders, it's just not being encoded at the proper level. We're going to continue to chase this on Monday with the manufacturer - I'm hoping for a software upgrade to fix it.

Friday night's issues with Enterprise were being caused by a balky video processor here at the studio - it all worked fine in offline tests, but when we put the signal on the air, we were seeing nasty instabilities in the MPEG stream that were causing our transmitter to alarm and "flip out" on us. It took a while to find the problem, which ended up being a single $10.00 cable with a bad connector! Until we figure out the audio encoder issue, audio on UPN 49 is going to be low on both local and Net programs because all of the KPDX content goes through the local encoder as opposed to Fox's splicing method, which effectively takes the lcoal encoder out of the circuit during Net events.

I want to take a moment to thank all of you for your support, suggestions and above all, patience with this. As many of you know, we're still doing this in "off" time between other projects and most of the people working on it are our engineering staff enthusiasts with HD sets at home. We're finding better support now from our bosses, even though Neilsen still can't measure how many of you are watching, because we no longer wanted to be the only stations in Portland not broadcasting HD.

See, sometimes viewer pressure (and, I must admit, peer pressure from the other station engineers) works - we have pride to protect just like everyone else.

We'll continue to work the remaining problems this week and hopefully have enverything ironed out before next weekend and the World Series.

One favor I'd like to ask of any of you who'd care to participate - I'd love to hear from you about what you're seeing in the OTA program guide being transmitted by 12 and 49. We obviously know what we're sending, and can decode it on a couple of receivers here, but we get varying levels of accuracy from the various receivers. If you'd like, send me an e-mail at ed.williams@meredith.com and let me know if your program guide is accurate and complete (you should be getting correct show times, titles and, for most shows, episode descriptions) and what recveiver make and model you're using. We'd also be interested to see if your particular setup is properly decding the EIA-708 HD/Digital closed captions we're sending, which are being translated form the analog EIA-608 captions on the regular stream.

Again, thanks for everyone's ethusiasm for this project.

Thanks for all of your hard work, Ed, I really appreciate. The games today were awesome after the Seattle feed turned HD.

Ed, thank you for taking the time to give us this update and for getting KPTV and KPDX up and running in HD!! I'm sure many of us appreciate your efforts.
It's really nice to know just were everything stands and what you're still working on.
Thanks again,
Earl

I would also like to say thanks Ed and echo what earletp and Marisssadad have already said.

Originally posted by edwardewilliams
One favor I'd like to ask of any of you who'd care to participate - I'd love to hear from you about what you're seeing in the OTA program guide being transmitted by 12 and 49. *snip* We'd also be interested to see if your particular setup is properly decding the EIA-708 HD/Digital closed captions we're sending, which are being translated form the analog EIA-608 captions on the regular stream.I'm using a Dish 811, which pretty much ignores PSIP for everything except channel mapping, so no program guide here. However, Closed Captioning seems to be working fine, save for a few glitches with the 811 itself (onscreen graphics can often corrupt video, sometimes the captions won't display without forcing the box to display another graphic first). I just tuned into Cops, which is displaying captions precisely the same as it does off the analog channel (or from the Dish encoding). But to be sure, you are only sending 708 over the digital channel, not 608, correct? I've read that some stations send both, as some receivers only decode one or the other. I believe the 811 decodes both.

Again, thanks for everyone's ethusiasm for this project. Some of us would give our eye-teeth to be right there with you… but then some of us know what a pain in the ass it is. :) I'm not about to give my eye teeth, but I wouldn't mind being paid handsomely for that pain.

As a point of clairification, we are transmitting translated EIA-708 captions as an ATSC data stream AND leaving the EIA-608 captions in the video vertical interval for the older receivers and TV's.

So no, we're not exlcusively transmitting 708 captions alone.

Well, I'm glad I didn't lobby too hard for my friends to come over after dinner Friday to watch the first HD Enterprise in PDX ;). That little one minute taster about 15 minutes in was cruel :D. But at least we got to see the last 20 minutes or so in HD style!

Watched a little HD football and baseball yesterday morning and evening on KPTV which was very nice to be able to do. Thanks Ed for the hard work and pushing the upgrades through.

As far as the Sunday night repeat of Enterprise goes, somewhere in the back of my brain I seem to recall reading that it does not come from the network, but is just a rebroadcasted recording that the local affiliates do? And since they have no way at this time to record in HD...

ron

Ron,

I think your guess is right. No HD-Enterprise last night. Oh well, have to wait for reruns later in the season.

Let me also echo others and thank Ed for his hard work in getting the HD up and running on KPTV/KPDX.

HZ

Thank you Ed and all the others at FOX getting us HD. I watched a little bit of the baseball game on Saturday and the picture and sound were amazing. Just wish I could reliably lock in the signal. The constant audio drops and macroblocking and freeze frames, made me switch back to analog, since my digital signal fluctuates betweeen 18-25%. The weather outside doesn't look like it is going to let me swap antennas anytime soon :(

Here is the response I got from KATU regarding the problem I'm having with my Sansung T150 following a new scan.

Your loss of KATU occured when we initiated a multicast on 2.2. Although you did not lose us at that point, if you did another channel search after that, we would disappear. The PSIP information being created by our encoder is not 100% correct. Samsung receivers are sensitive when it comes to PSIP information. I have notified the manufacturer and sent them documentation of what is wrong in the signal.

I should probably shut off the multicast, temporarily, so people can receive us again.

Alan

Speaking of the whole PSIP info with my Smasung SIR-TS160, I only have info from KGW at this time. KATU, KOIN, KPDX, WB, OPN, UPN have no info.

I have no program info on KGW, never have, or KATU for that matter.
I do have guide info for KOIN, KPTV and KPDX, though I have no show on KPDX, just a black screen.

I recall Pat turning off the guide for KWBP about a month ago due to problems it was having, as far as I know he hasn't got it working again yet.

Thanks for the info on KATU, now I know where World News Now went... :)

KPDX was down again, this time from 8:00pm until 10:00pm, hopefully they get the primetime bugs worked out soon.

On KGW the shows aren't actually listed but it has changed from the default "regular schedule" to "DTV programming" I figured that was something on KGW's end.

Is PSIP information supposed to indicate whether or not a program is in HDTV?

My PSIP scans of local stations: KGW just shows "DTV Program" for all the slots, KOIN gives accurate descriptions but only a few hours into the future, KPTV gives tons of descriptions for days of programming, KPDX also gives many days of info but only program titles, KATU and KWBP give no information, and KOPB still isn't sending a complete enough PSIP structure for my (open source) PSIP interpreter to understand.

Well, i was pretty sure that I was watching Enterprise in HD Sunday evening. It sounds from some of the posts as though it wasnt in HD?

On a seperate not, KGW kept blanking out during Las Vegas and LAX. I ended up watching it via DISH. (Which is not nearly as good as the HD version ( I don't have HD Dish reciever).

I'm hoping it was an equipment problem, not a prblem with the rain.

Thanks for all the hrd work from the stations! HD is really excellent!

Rick

I also took a look at all our local stations at the ATSC level (non-geeks will probably want to skip this) with a DTV stream scanner:

KOPB has one channel on program 1 with one audio stream identified as English.
KPTV has one channel with two audio streams which are identified as English, but why is it program 3 instead of program 1?
KPDX has the same thing, one channel with two English audio streams on program 3.
KWBP has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2. Again, why not on program 1?
KOIN has two channels, both with two audio streams, on programs 1 and 2 but doesn't Identify the languages as English.
KGW has the same but identifies both audio streams as English.
KATU has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2.

Your loss of KATU occured when we initiated a multicast on 2.2. .......... I should probably shut off the multicast, temporarily, so people can receive us again.

AlanHmmm, I was wondering why MNF looked so good last night. Full bandwidth is a beautiful thing. That was as good of 720p as I have seen. Despite full bandwidth on Fox as well, their 720p baseball was not even in the same ball park :D.Well, i was pretty sure that I was watching Enterprise in HD Sunday evening. It sounds from some of the posts as though it wasnt in HD?......On a seperate not, KGW kept blanking out during Las Vegas and LAX. I'm hoping it was an equipment problem, not a prblem with the rain.Definitely not HD Enterprise on Sunday. Their SD upconverts look pretty decent so far but nothing like the real thing. I watched Vegas last night and other than some pixelation during the opening credit piece (due to insufficient bandwidth), their signal was solid. Sounds like you may be having some reception probs alright.

ron

Originally posted by R11
Definitely not HD Enterprise on Sunday. Their SD upconverts look pretty decent so far but nothing like the real thing. It's true. Lots of us got to compare the two many many times Friday evening. :)

Does the (temporary) end of multicasting on KATU mean a (temporary) end to ABCNow or whatever ABC is calling their 24 hour news channel?

Originally posted by scowl
I also took a look at all our local stations at the ATSC level (non-geeks will probably want to skip this) with a DTV stream scanner:

KOPB has one channel on program 1 with one audio stream identified as English.
KPTV has one channel with two audio streams which are identified as English, but why is it program 3 instead of program 1?
KPDX has the same thing, one channel with two English audio streams on program 3.
KWBP has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2. Again, why not on program 1?
KOIN has two channels, both with two audio streams, on programs 1 and 2 but doesn't Identify the languages as English.
KGW has the same but identifies both audio streams as English.
KATU has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2.
What Hardware and Software are you using to disect the signals? KOIN's audio should be PIDs 0x014/0x024 as English and 0x015/0x025 as Other/None (sometimes Spanish, sometimes Video Description).

Also, you want more PSIP Program Guide data? You got it. 3 days worth now.

Originally posted by Lee Wood
What Hardware and Software are you using to disect the signals? I'm using an HD-2000 card in a Linux machine and the program is "dtvstream" which is a simple ATSC stream decoder that someone wrote for free.

Also, you want more PSIP Program Guide data? You got it. 3 days worth now.Hey Lee, I'd be happy just to get rid of the audio static noise on 6-1 :). I did notice that it was better last night but it's still there. Any hope of eliminating it soon? Thanks.

ron

Originally posted by rickie
Well, i was pretty sure that I was watching Enterprise in HD Sunday evening. It sounds from some of the posts as though it wasnt in HD?

Rick
It was not HD. I recorded it on my PVR and it was letterboxed all the way around. If it was HD, it would only have black bars top and bottom and fill the screen.

Originally posted by R11
Hey Lee, I'd be happy just to get rid of the audio static noise on 6-1 :). I did notice that it was better last night but it's still there. Any hope of eliminating it soon? Thanks.

ron
There might be if I could hear it, which I have not yet. When does it occur? Is it on all programming CBS-HD and local upconversion, too? What equipment are you using? Is there a DD5.1 decoder involved? What happens if you bypass it?

The CBS-HD audio passes straight through embedded with the CBS-HD video from the satellite receiver. We don't touch it. Local audio we embed into the upconverted video. Both streams get switched into the ATSC encoder and it takes it from there.

I watched Cold Case sunday night and there was not a single audio glitch for me. I started to watch CSI Miami last night but had to go to bed about 10 minutes in and it was fine also.

Originally posted by R11
Hmmm, I was wondering why MNF looked so good last night. Full bandwidth is a beautiful thing. That was as good of 720p as I have seen. Despite full bandwidth on Fox as well, their 720p baseball was not even in the same ball park :D.(snip)
ron

Are you sure FOX is full bandwidth 720p?

I thought the network feed was something on the order of 14 MB/s with the remainder available to the station for other purposes.

There might be if I could hear it, which I have not yet. When does it occur? Is it on all programming CBS-HD and local upconversion, too? What equipment are you using? Is there a DD5.1 decoder involved? What happens if you bypass it?Lee it doesn't seem to occur during the network HD feed, just during the local upconversions. Sounds like a wispy, static-y, kind of noise in the background although at times it's been quite loud. Seems like it's been going on for maybe three weeks now? A couple of others mentioned it here and I thought someone had emailed you about it but you were on vacation or out of town at the time. I'm currently using one of the Sony 300 integrated D* receivers. I believe your feed during upconversion shows up as DD 2.0 so my audio amp switches to PLII during those times.Are you sure FOX is full bandwidth 720p?

I thought the network feed was something on the order of 14 MB/s with the remainder available to the station for other purposes.Larry, I meant that they were not adding any subchannels locally but I think you are right in that the FOX network feed is now generally lower than the others. A direct result in the softer 720p PQ? Some might say so...

ron

Originally posted by scowl
I also took a look at all our local stations at the ATSC level (non-geeks will probably want to skip this) with a DTV stream scanner:

KOPB has one channel on program 1 with one audio stream identified as English.
KPTV has one channel with two audio streams which are identified as English, but why is it program 3 instead of program 1?
KPDX has the same thing, one channel with two English audio streams on program 3.
KWBP has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2. Again, why not on program 1?
KOIN has two channels, both with two audio streams, on programs 1 and 2 but doesn't Identify the languages as English.
KGW has the same but identifies both audio streams as English.
KATU has one channel with one English audio stream on program 2.

What I'm told by smarter minds than I regarding DVB/ASI and other digital streams is that program 2 is being phased out and that program 3 will be for ATSC terrestrial broadcast, with program 1 being reserved for DVB transmissions. One of these days, I may have some time to actually research this stuff.

To answer a few other questions - Fox's network feed through the splicer is variable bit rate, but tops out at 16.8 Mb/s according to our network contacts. On our stream analyzer, we've seen it float between a high of 16 and a low of about 12 with active (non-black) video going out.

Enterprise is recorded here at the studio from a seperate satellite feed late Friday night (actually early Saturday morning) for playback Sunday. No, we don't currently have any HD recording gear here, nor does UPN provide us an HD feed of the show other than the live one on Friday night.

As for KPDX being "down" from 8:00 to 10:00 last night - that one's a stumper. Yes, the analog transmitter went off the air at 9:50 PM due to a cooling system failure, but the digital transmitter was not affected and our people report no switching errors on the HD side - but, I'm looking in to it.

I just did a re-scan with a Sammy T165 and it picked up 2-1. I won't be scanning for stations again any time soon

Originally posted by Lee Wood
Also, you want more PSIP Program Guide data? You got it. 3 days worth now. Hah! You make it sound so easy.

Originally posted by R11
Lee it doesn't seem to occur during the network HD feed, just during the local upconversions. Sounds like a wispy, static-y, kind of noise in the background although at times it's been quite loud. Seems like it's been going on for maybe three weeks now? A couple of others mentioned it here and I thought someone had emailed you about it but you were on vacation or out of town at the time. I'm currently using one of the Sony 300 integrated D* receivers. I believe your feed during upconversion shows up as DD 2.0 so my audio amp switches to PLII during those times.Of particular note is the PLII decoder, it is very noticable in the rears; not only static, but even dialog is being routed back there. If I put the decoder into Stereo mode, it's not as noticable, but still there. Even standard Pro Logic isn't nearly as noticable in the rear; PLII really brings it out.

Interestingly enough, this issue does not appear to exist on 6.2, only on the HD channel. I'm watching the news at 6 right now, it's just as bad as I can remember it on 6.1, but not a hint of it on 6.2, and all the dialog is coming straight out of the center speaker. So take that for what it's worth…

Veronica Mars is GORGEOUS! Thanks again, Ed&Company.

Originally posted by Moorebid
Of particular note is the PLII decoder, it is very noticable in the rears; not only static, but even dialog is being routed back there. If I put the decoder into Stereo mode, it's not as noticable, but still there. Even standard Pro Logic isn't nearly as noticable in the rear; PLII really brings it out.

Interestingly enough, this issue does not appear to exist on 6.2, only on the HD channel. I'm watching the news at 6 right now, it's just as bad as I can remember it on 6.1, but not a hint of it on 6.2, and all the dialog is coming straight out of the center speaker. So take that for what it's worth… Ahhh! Something to chase! It sounds like there is a level or phase mismatch someplace in the 6-1 local audio chain (which is the same source as the 6-2 audio chain) that PLII doesn't like. Since it is local audio it will be a lot easier to hunt down. Thanks, guys.

Whatever issues KPDX had last night weren't there this evening. It was nice watching Veronica Mars in HD. :)

Ah... Good news!
ABC has scratched "The Princess Diaries" movie this Saturday and will instead show back-to-back episodes of "Lost" (last week's and this week's). That means I can watch "Smallville" in HD Wednesday night and still catch "Lost" on Saturday in glorious HD!

I was just looking at TitanTV and realized that, between our locals, we have 14 different TV shows in HD during primetime tonight. If you count Leno, that gives us 15.
Pretty cool !! :D

For about a week now I have been unable to record channel 8. Anyone else having problems with MYHD and channel 8?

Regards,
Henry

Gorgewinds

I recorded American Dreams on Sunday night without any problems.

Steve

Originally posted by Lee Wood
Ahhh! Something to chase! It sounds like there is a level or phase mismatch someplace in the 6-1 local audio chain (which is the same source as the 6-2 audio chain) that PLII doesn't like. Since it is local audio it will be a lot easier to hunt down. Thanks, guys. No... thank YOU Lee.

ron

Originally posted by Moorebid
Veronica Mars is GORGEOUS! But it's just a litttle soft probably because it's shot in 16mm. Gilmore Girls has the same look.

Originally posted by Lipout
I just did a re-scan with a Sammy T165 and it picked up 2-1. I won't be scanning for stations again any time soon Same for me: rescanning with my Samsung SIRT-165 picked up 2-1 again. All is fine, and I'll skip rescanning until I absolutely have to, now that all the locals I care about are in HD.

Originally posted by JimProuty
Same for me: rescanning with my Samsung SIRT-165 picked up 2-1 again. All is fine, and I'll skip rescanning until I absolutely have to, now that all the locals I care about are in HD. Shhhhh! We don't want Alan to hear this or he'll probably put 2-2 back up ;). It would be nice to at least see a few episodes of LOST with no subchannel...

ron

I got a problem for you guys.

I just recently moved. My previous scan on my DTC 100 put the KPTV digital channel on 30-1 and 30-2 (all other digitals were 2-1, 2-2, 6-1, etc.). This was no big deal to me and it worked well.

After I moved the scan put KPTV on 12-? There's not actually a question mark, there's nothing. But, it's in the place that 12-1 should be. Whenever I turn the DTC 100 to this station the screen goes blank for several seconds and then my DTC 100 turns itself off. When I turn it back on (which I have to wait several seconds before it will go back on) it has reset itself.

I'm having this problem using both my rooftop antenna and my silver sensor.

Any ideas?

thanks.

12-1 is the proper channel mapping now. Sounds like multipath? Are you in Oregon City now? As I recall, Fox had a funny, peanut shaped pattern that pretty much covered the I-5 corridor, anyone know if this has changed?

Does anybody know where I can get a variable attenuator? I have been passivly looking but have not found one yet.

Does anybody know where I can get a variable attenuator? I have been passivly looking but have not found one yet.
Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?MSCSProfile=745D84CBF04D14A48AA6FF9C89D722C0BA68 C1B04FE384678A5285FCD6E056B17AF21627FDABE316B90B3C038D68EBD6 B7F9F3BD1712EAA9951ACB2590A05C6517EFE46941FEFDD1985D4EFD6321 F5E70B4DE9B6C1D45512DCD9FB3DBCACB9478894232D83BDBB3B173ED8B1 4D1CFD6F0C0E522975CCE0B015DC1DC6BA9E892CFD3583D99C54637E&cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-678) for $8.99

I have one and it works for me.

I just called and they said they didn't have one. Could you perhaps give me a modle # or something?

If you click the "Radio Shack" in my previous post it will take you to their web page with the Model number, a picture, and a thing to check for availability in your area.

Here's the main info....
V/CATV Attenuator
$8.99 Brand: RadioShack
Catalog #: 15-678 Model: 15-678

Duh, lol. Thanks

Originally posted by Lee Wood
Ahhh! Something to chase! It sounds like there is a level or phase mismatch someplace in the 6-1 local audio chain (which is the same source as the 6-2 audio chain) that PLII doesn't like. Since it is local audio it will be a lot easier to hunt down. Thanks, guys. We adjusted audio levels today and gave a critical listen. Our ProLogic I decoder did not produce any static or noise in the audio either before or after adjustments. Let me know what you ProLogic II owners hear.

I live about 15mi. East of Salem. Antennaweb site returned no digital signals available in my area.....I do, however, receive 4-6 analog channels quite good. I am having D* HD installed on Sat. and am wondering if it is worth my time to try and pull in some locals. We already have a ground installed antenna from the 80's and is about 8 ft above the roof line.

D.

I would say if you already have the antenna you might as well give it a try. You may only get a few channels when the weather is nice but the added PQ is well worth it, IMO.

Thank you for the last reply.
Any recommendations for an antenna or do I just need an amplifier?
Too bad we are running out of nice days very quickly!!
D

Originally posted by scowl
But it's just a litttle soft probably because it's shot in 16mm. Gilmore Girls has the same look. I wouldn't necessarily say soft, but grainy, to be sure. I still prefer it's look to HD video, but I know I'm in the minority on that one here.

Originally posted by Lee Wood
We adjusted audio levels today and gave a critical listen. Our ProLogic I decoder did not produce any static or noise in the audio either before or after adjustments. Let me know what you ProLogic II owners hear. I watched the news at 11 tonight and still noticed the static as much as I could remember. Now I'm watching Letterman and am still noticing it, so I've deciced to give it a more critical listen. I put the decoder into Stereo mode and listened very closely to each speaker separately. While the static isn't quite as noticable, I do notice it primarily in the left channel; not nearly as much (if at all) in the right. To be sure, I plugged in some headphones to get a closer listen.

Here's where things get interesting. The audio seems to be rapidly panning back and forth between the two channels. More specifically, one side seems to be more prominant than the other at any given time, depending upon the material being broadcast. For example, when Paul's playing music, or when the crowd is cheering (materially which would naturally have dissimilarities between left and right channels), both sides sound about equal (or about "right," static aside); however, when anyone's just talking (primarily similar between the two channels), the audio seems to go back and forth between each channel - one sounding louder than the other - about 3-4 times per second. How's that for a phase variance? :)

Just to rule out the decoder, I ran analog out from the Dish 811 directly into the television and plugged the headphones in there. Same issue exists, and on top of that, the television has the option to switch between "Stereo," "Left" and "Right" modes. Sure enough, in "Right" mode, there is no static, but in "Left" there is a preponderance.

Hope that narrows it down for ya. :)

Originally posted by urosepsis
I live about 15mi. East of Salem. Antennaweb site returned no digital signals available in my area.....I do, however, receive 4-6 analog channels quite good. I am having D* HD installed on Sat. and am wondering if it is worth my time to try and pull in some locals. We already have a ground installed antenna from the 80's and is about 8 ft above the roof line.

D.
A friend of mine lives in Dallas and gets all the channels though some are on the fringe. He uses a 121 " Rat Shack combo VHF/UHF.

Originally posted by Lee Wood
We adjusted audio levels today and gave a critical listen. Our ProLogic I decoder did not produce any static or noise in the audio either before or after adjustments. Let me know what you ProLogic II owners hear. Moorebid has already given you his extensive testing results so I'll just say that the static is still present for me as well Lee (in all channels with PLII). I also switched into stereo mode just to check and the noise was there too.
ron

Thought I'd add a quick positive OTA experience here in Portland. Just picked up a new tv yesterday and, out of curiosity, plugged in a set of old uhf/vhf rabbit-ears and the tv's onboard digital tuner picked up all the areas digital broadcasts in the 70-80% signal strength range. No problems, no hiccups. After following this thread closely for many months, not to mention other hdtv rants for much longer, I was shocked that plug and play really can work. I'm about 5 miles east of the towers, more than a few trees around (it's Portland, after all).

Originally posted by SMRose
I'm about 5 miles east of the towers, more than a few trees around (it's Portland, after all). I'm about five miles east of the towers too and line of sight of them. At our close distance the real problem is multipath. If you search this thread for "Tri-Met", you'll read about the time-consuming multipath problem I had to deal with. :rolleyes:

I am located in the Lakeshore area of Vancouver and am looking for antenna recommendations. According to Anntenna Web, I am approximately 12 miles from the towers ( I can see them through a slot in the trees from my upper deck). Any suggestions on what might be the best bet for an antenna in this situation to connect to my DISH 811 (to be installed today)? Thanks in advance!

Scowl- I had read your posts with more than a little apprehension, assuming that I would have the same problems. I was all set to try out some of the more esoteric suggestions to clear it up, but at first glance (literally), my worries appear to be misplaced. Of course, I say all of this with my fingers crossed.

I have a Silver Sensor showing up in a couple of days, but it may be the relatively poor reception of a cheap antenna which is keeping multipath at bay. I'll update when I can compare the results with a "better" antenna.

Hey you guys,

I really think it all depends in large part just exactly where you are and the specifics of the location more than distance. I am within probably two miles tops line of sight from the towers and I have no multipath issues here. And I use a large antenna too, although it is mounted inside my attic.

ron

It was just my luck that my direct line of sight to the towers lined up with a street that regularly has big Tri-Met buses on it. Once I figured out what was happening, it was easy to fix, time consuming but easy. Now I have near-perfect reception from all DTV stations and I'm sure you will to if you don't already. I can receive KGW and KPTV for hours and not find a single error in dozens of gigabytes of data from them. I think this is just amazing.

Once I figured out what was happening, it was easy to fix, time consuming but easy. So what happens when Tri-Met figures out that all those detour signs around your neighborhood aren't really legit? :D

ron

A friend of mine lives in Dallas and gets all the channels though some are on the fringe. He uses a 121 " Rat Shack combo VHF/UHF.


Thank you.......I will give it a try this week and will be sure to come back and give updates. If I can get one channel I will be happy ( thats 20% more than D* offers:o

D.

Originally posted by Marissadad
12-1 is the proper channel mapping now. Sounds like multipath? Are you in Oregon City now? As I recall, Fox had a funny, peanut shaped pattern that pretty much covered the I-5 corridor, anyone know if this has changed?

I'm in Oregon City now, and before--I only moved about 2 miles. If anything my position should be better to the tower now--moved closer to the Willamette.

Anyone else have any ideas about this?

urosepsis, you can get some HD feeds from D* if you get a waiver from the local channels. So if the OTA doesn't work call up the satellite folks and they will submit requests for you. I think they offer CBS and NBC and maybe ABC right now. It does coast a dollar or so a month per channel though.

Sounds like a great option if I can get the waivers.......but, you know I have to try the antenna (God help me, I HAVE to tinker). After buying a plasma every dollar is being watched.....by my wife:(

Originally posted by R11
So what happens when Tri-Met figures out that all those detour signs around your neighborhood aren't really legit? :D I guess I'll have no choice but to move my antenna two feet back from the street. I hope I won't have to take such drastic measures! :eek:

et tu KOIN, no HD tonight?

A few days ago I posted a problem with not recieving KGW HD signal. A few responded that they had no trouble. The following night, I had KGW but lost both KOIN and KATU.


Las night I set my tuner (Toshiba 63HX93 with builtin HD tuner) to rescan the stations.

Everything appears to be coming in fine now. I'm not sure why it went flaky, but in any event, it's looking good now.

Thanks for the status reports on here, it does help to narrow down problems!

Rick

Enterprise looked pretty good Friday night. On the other hand, I tried to watch the Ray Charles tribute special on 6-1 afterward and that static sound really took most of the enjoyment out of it :(. It seemed like it has only occurred during the local upconverts previously, but this was during the network primetime feed (it was not HD though - network upconvert).

ron

rickie-

You know, I was and am still having the same problem. I live in SW Beaverton and all of the local stations come in great except KGW. I have rescanned the channels on my Tosh 51hx93 a number of times, but all I get is the SD channel for KGW. All other DTV channels come in really clear. Thank goodness Comcast gets in KGW, so at least I still get it, but it's annoying nonetheless.

I hadn't noticed the audio problems with KOIN very much because I have a direct view CRT, so to minimize the chance of burn it I was only watching the HD digital channels for HD programming, and the network feeds don't seem to have as much trouble.

Because of the comments here I checked it out and I too experience the "static" but it seems confined to the left channel. The left channel also has a "brighter" sound, almost like the right channel is clipping the higher freqs off.

The only SD KOIN show I watch is Survivor, but I watch it recorded via Analog, it looks better than the SD digital channel and it doesn't have the noise.

I'm kind of curious- How many people have heard the KOIN static and how many haven't?

I've never noticed any static at all, myself.

Originally posted by earletp
I hadn't noticed the audio problems with KOIN very much because I have a direct view CRT, so to minimize the chance of burn it I was only watching the HD digital channels for HD programming, and the network feeds don't seem to have as much trouble.

Because of the comments here I checked it out and I too experience the "static" but it seems confined to the left channel. The left channel also has a "brighter" sound, almost like the right channel is clipping the higher freqs off. It seems to vary quite a bit. During the Ray Charles show it was highly centralized in the left main channel, and it was the first time I really remember hearing it during a primetime network upconvert. I don't believe I've ever heard it at all during a HD show.

earletp, I'm surprised you are concerned with burn-in on a direct view tube set. I also have a direct view tube (4x3) and I basically just leave it in HD mode all the time and watch the upconverts when the programming is not HD (because the PQ is much better and contains much less compression artifacting than the SD subchannels). So I have black bars either top and bottom or all the way around 95% of the time with no worries at all.

ron

My old 27" 4:3 set has been used for HD & DVD for 4 years now with no ill effects. Set it up properly and there is no worry.

It is calibrated so I know my risks are fairly small that I'll have any problems.
I don't worry about it when I'm watching a DVD. heh!!
I guess it makes me feel more comfortable since the set is on for 16-18 hours a day sometimes. It's set up in my home-office.
I get really good analog reception (way better looking than cable) so I tend to watch it when I'm not watching HD or a DVD. I've not been very impressed with the SD subs.
Since my TV does a really good job with stretching the 4:3 analog to 16:9, I just go with that.
If I had to depend on my LST-3100A to stretch the image, I would be seeing the black bars, it's absolutely horrific in its stretched mode. :D

Earl

I have noticed no KOIN static.

I have notice that most of the program guides are diplaying correctly these days.

Couple of comments regarding this evening's prime time viewing…

In a word… therewasnone. (That works.) Around 10pm this evening, KATU, KOIN, KOPB and KPDX had either no or very low signal, KGW was unusually low (70%+ when it's usually 85%), but KPTV and KWBP seemed completely unaffected (85% and 65%, respectively). I did get KATU to come in for a split 30-seconds (around 70%, usually 85%), long enough to tell that The Benefactor was yet again not in HD. *shrug*

Now that Letterman is on, KOIN is back (at 80%, usually 90%), but the rest are still gone, and KPTV - which was on just a few minutes ago - seems to have joined them. (UPDATE: well, it was dead for a few minutes, but just came back at 11:49pm… and is now dead again at 11:54pm.) Also, KGW's gone - no or very low signal. So rickie, if this is to what you're referring, count me as one of the few, one of the proud… :) Though I've never seen elemental variance to this degree, I'm still blaming it on the weather… but why would some be so unaffected, while others so wildly? *shrug*

Anyway, the other comment was that KOIN appears no longer to have any static or phase problems. Solid audio coming out of 6.1. So, good going Lee&Co.

EDIT: Scratch that… KOIN just switched to local commercials, and it's just as staticky and uncentered as usual… and now that it's back to Letterman, the static is still there (and both picture and audio have frozen thrice for a few seconds since the switch… apparantly I'm losing signal again). I guess they were running off the network upconvert for the first ¾ of the show, but now they're back to local audio.

Newbie, here. I've lurked for a couple of months to learn everything I can, and I know I have a ways to go...but a question. I just bought the HDVR10-250 today and had it up and running in a matter of minutes. I decided to gamble with a Silver Sensor indoor antenna and it seems to work great. In fact, I didn't really even aim it as I was busy on the phone w/ DirectTV. I was hoping to everything fired up in time for my wife to catch CSI: Miami. There were some audio/video glitches that upset her. Is this common and did anyone else experience these tonight?

Also, how common are "glitches" in Portland's local OTA HD channels?

Any answers/thoughts are much appreciated! Thanks in advance!

:)

Also, how common are "glitches" in Portland's local OTA HD channels?You've been lurking and you still have to ask this question? ;). Kidding aside, welcome to the board! Much depends on location. If you are one of the lucky ones like me that get good reception, then you will only have to put up with periodic broadcaster equipment issues which unfortunately are still not uncommon. Some of the stations have old equipment which is considerably less than state of the art and in some cases is pretty much just patched together. Others have newer equipment but still seem to have frequent probs anyway. As it is, the digital transmissions sent out by the local broadcasters are still very much a secondary thing for them and way down the totem pole of priority since the vast majority of their viewers still have no idea there is a digital transition going on. Unlike the analog counterpart feeds, the digital systems don't have any redundancy built in yet to take over when probs arise on the primary equipment. When issues occur, we see/hear them until the problems are diagnosed/fixed. When things are working well, it's great. When they aren't, it can be very frustrating. FWIW, I watched CSI last night and aside from the periodic "blinks" in video it seemed solid to me.

On to the static on 6-1 non-HD programs. When was watching last night/this morning it seemed reduced but still present on my set up.

ron

Originally posted by earletp
I hadn't noticed the audio problems with KOIN very much because I have a direct view CRT, so to minimize the chance of burn it I was only watching the HD digital channels for HD programming, and the network feeds don't seem to have as much trouble.

Because of the comments here I checked it out and I too experience the "static" but it seems confined to the left channel. The left channel also has a "brighter" sound, almost like the right channel is clipping the higher freqs off. Originally posted by ceccacci
I'm kind of curious- How many people have heard the KOIN static and how many haven't?

I've never noticed any static at all, myself. Originally posted by R11
It seems to vary quite a bit. During the Ray Charles show it was highly centralized in the left main channel, and it was the first time I really remember hearing it during a primetime network upconvert. I don't believe I've ever heard it at all during a HD show.

...snip...

ron Originally posted by hilladen
I have noticed no KOIN static.

...snip... Originally posted by Moorebid
...snip...

Anyway, the other comment was that KOIN appears no longer to have any static or phase problems. Solid audio coming out of 6.1. So, good going Lee&Co.

EDIT: Scratch that… KOIN just switched to local commercials, and it's just as staticky and uncentered as usual… and now that it's back to Letterman, the static is still there (and both picture and audio have frozen thrice for a few seconds since the switch… apparantly I'm losing signal again). I guess they were running off the network upconvert for the first ¾ of the show, but now they're back to local audio. Originally posted by R11
...snip...

On to the static on 6-1 non-HD programs. When was watching last night/this morning it seemed reduced but still present on my set up.

ron
As you see some seem to hear static, some don't. Some seem to hear it all the time, some only on local upconverted programs.

We chased around for an hour this morning trying to find a problem and didn't find anything definitive. We also checked levels to see if they had changed from last weeks adjustments and the two channels are much less than 1 db apart.

The only common thread is that Dolby Prologic-II may be involved. Are those who hear static using Dolby ProLogic-II decoders? Is there anyone using a ProLogic-II decoder who does NOT hear static? We don't have a ProLogic-II decoder and don't hear anything out of the ordinary on our ProLogic decoder or in plain old stereo.

Any qualitive information will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Lee

I don't hear static and only have Pro Logic I, not II.

Those that have Pro Logic II, can it be disabled and fall back to I? And if so, does it make any difference in the static?

I have PLII and definitely hear static. My audio amp does not support PLI, only PLII.

A couple things to consider:

- previous testing by myself and moorebid showed that the static was still present when switching out of PLII into standard stereo

- the static only began about a month ago, any changes done to the system around that time frame?


Thanks for digging into it Lee. Good luck!

ron

[QUOTE]Originally posted by R11
[B]You've been lurking and you still have to ask this question? ;). Kidding aside, welcome to the board! Much depends on location.

R11, I also have been lurking. Well perhaps gleaning the wonderful knowledge which many of you have shared. Thanx for the great info.

My question to all, is on the varied success on accessing the Portland channels. All of the signals originate from the same hill. I can lock in HD from all channels, except KOIN 6. My scan will not even detect it. (Well, it did once, a month ago). Why? Gleaning the forum I see that I am the only one with this issue. Location is key, but I don't understand why the problem with just one channel. Is the KOIN broadcast weaker than other stations?

I am using an RCA DLP with built in tuner, medium size omni antenna. I do have a 60'+ cable run, but plan on picking up a pre-amp to help with that.

Originally posted by HappyWithRCA
My question to all, is on the varied success on accessing the Portland channels. All of the signals originate from the same hill. I can lock in HD from all channels, except KOIN 6. My scan will not even detect it. (Well, it did once, a month ago). Why? Gleaning the forum I see that I am the only one with this issue. Location is key, but I don't understand why the problem with just one channel. Is the KOIN broadcast weaker than other stations? I am still thoroughly convinced that there is no science to OTA digital television reception. Don't try to understand it with logic, it's a Black Art. Want to get KOIN 6? Try sacrificing 6 chickens and hooking up a different antenna.

Worked for me.

Originally posted by Lee Wood
Any qualitive information will be appreciated.

This is about as qualitative as it gets. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4536379#post4536379) Try some headphones… it's even more noticable.

Originally posted by HappyWithRCA
All of the signals originate from the same hill. I can lock in HD from all channels, except KOIN 6. My scan will not even detect it. (Well, it did once, a month ago). Why? From my location it looks like there are two clusters of antennas. The KOIN and KATU antennas are apart from the rest because I could never get them when my too-directional antenna was pointed at the other cluster (which seems to be KGW, KPTV and KOPB). You might want to try adjusting your antenna to pick up KOIN as best you can (since they have the best HD programming anyway) and see how the other come in.

I must say that after playing the antenna adjust game and finding the best position for all channels, I had to get the variable freq. attenuator and use that to fine tune the channels. From my location the hardest channel to get in the WB and KOIN one of the easiest.

Originally posted by ceccacci
I am still thoroughly convinced that there is no science to OTA digital television reception. Don't try to understand it with logic, it's a Black Art. Want to get KOIN 6? Try sacrificing 6 chickens and hooking up a different antenna.

Worked for me.

My recipe has been equal parts good advice from the people here and blind, dumb luck. So far, so good.

If that ever fails, I will definitely keep the chickens in mind.

Originally posted by hilladen
I must say that after playing the antenna adjust game and finding the best position for all channels, I had to get the variable freq. attenuator and use that to fine tune the channels. From my location the hardest channel to get in the WB and KOIN one of the easiest.
Doesn't KOIN and WB share the same antenna? Or is it UPN?

From my location KGW, KOPB, KPTV and KPDX seem to be a little north of KOIN, KWBP and KATU. I have to point my antenna right between the two clusters to get them all.

Also KWBP still has some sort of problem. I used to get them at 85%-89% until some people said they suddenly could barely pick it up at all. I rechecked it was down to about 75% at my location. It's by far the weakest DT station I can pick up.

That's about what I am getting as well with WB and Voom is borderline at that strength though my Dish 6000 locks it in just fine.

Oddly enough, each channel comes in differently for me even though many of the stations share the same tower.

Something is still up with the WB alright. My receiver still picks it up with solid reception, but it takes about 3 seconds to lock on initially. Long enough for the "no signal" banner to display at the bottom of my screen before it finally grabs it. I flipped by it last night after the mayoral debate was over, and The Gilmore Girls was on and it looked terrible. Super soft and major grainy. Does that show always look like that?

ron

Something is different with the WB because my wife actually had much better reception last night while she was watching "Gilmore Girls". A little different from R11. Perhaps someone sacrificed some chickens down in the Lake Oswego area.

Something to remember about our local signal strengths. I not sure what the stations are broadcasting their signals at today from their towers but a year or so ago they where about half strength or less with the exception of KGW. I think KGW was broadcasting at or around 100%. So each station is broadcasting at different levels and most likely a lower weaker signal. I think the stronger they broadcast the more it cost $ them per day. Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't think that will change until analog goes away or it is economical for them to do so.

Maybe Lee or someone can let us know what each station is broadcasting at now.

Steve

All of my channels except WB come in close to 100%, WB hovers in the mid-70's.

Lee, are you lurking? Can you tell us what power all the stations are at now?

Thanks.

It would be interesting to see more of us reply with signal information.
The pattern I see starting to develop may have more to do with direction from the towers than distance.

I'm about 6 miles almost due east from the towers (260 - 263 degrees according to antennaweb) and I use a Silver Sensor indoor antenna. I can see the towers from my backyard.
I don't have any trouble locking on to any of the stations but they do vary widely in their signals. The best all around antenna position gives me...
KATU and KPDX about 60%
KOIN about 70%
KGW, KOPB, KPTV, and KWBP are a solid 95 %.

It's odd to me that with KOIN and KWBP on the same antenna they vary so much in signal.

On another note, I haven't noticed any problems with the audio on KOIN either yesterday or this morning. <shrug>

Earl

I'm in Woodburn and use an outdoor 121" combo UHF/VHF/FM. All channels strong except WB.

According to Lee's first post in this thread, that was updated 8-20-2004 , KATU is broadcasting at half power, KOIN, KGW, KOPB, KPTV, KWBP, and KPDX are all broadcasting at full power.

It would be nice to know if that has changed for some reason though.

For the last couple of days I have not been able to pick up KPTV channel 12 on HD. I even tried rescanning all the channels and it did not come in. Is this happening where you are?

DC

Originally posted by R11
I flipped by it last night after the mayoral debate was over, and The Gilmore Girls was on and it looked terrible. Super soft and major grainy. Does that show always look like that? Yes it does. It's one of the few shows that are shot on 16mm and never looks really good.

I should take back what I said about Veronica Mars last week. It's shot in 16mm too but this week's show had incredible PQ. I never would have guessed it was 16mm. They're purposely avoiding the conservative 16mm look by using lots of wide fast lenses and doing some risky shots in low light that still somehow look incredible without any grain.

I've had no problems with KPTV. I did not turn on my pj last night, but the night before I watched part of the Series and it came in fine. I spent last night burning DVD's so I was watching Analog on my little monitor.

Originally posted by digitcallous
For the last couple of days I have not been able to pick up KPTV channel 12 on HD. I even tried rescanning all the channels and it did not come in. Is this happening where you are?

No, it's been solid for me too, and I haven't noticed where anyone else has had problems either. Have you tried tuning it in through channel 30?

Veronica Mars has had some really good looking HD. Kevin Hill is another UPN show that looks really good, it's too bad I haven't been able to get into it.
I guess there is a point that I won't watch something just because it looks so good in HD.:p

I've been receiving KPTV perfectly and I mean perfectly. I had it on for ten hours on Sunday with all the football and baseball games and there wasn't a single ATSC error in the log. That's better than the DVD's I rent.

This is the signal strength from my location (Beaverton, around Hall Blvd. and Greenway) using a Terk 55 antenna (attic mounted in a single-level house) with Sony HD-300 receiver for OTA reception only.

KOIN, KOPB, KPTV --80-85%
KATU, KGW, KPDX --70-80%
KWBP -- Below 50% most of the time, unwatchable!

This was a compromise. I could sacrifice either KGW or KWBP. And therein lies the trick of the OTA digital TV for most of us. Unfortunately, it is subject to line of sight, weather/trees/... but mostly line of sight for placement of antenna seems to be highly influential in reception.

HZ

Other than some drop outs on Sunday morning I have been receiving KPTV extremely well and many times in the past it has been problematic for me.

I have MyHD and the signal strength numbers are:

KOPB 55% MAPS correctly with occasional failure to map, changing to another channel and back usually locks in
KPTV 50% MAPS very mixed results. But when I enter channel 12 sometimes it works at 50% often it displays the analog channel. Most often it displays 12-1 and no signal. This the same antenna that will display 30-1 at 50%.
KWBP 20% sometimes a little better but not really watchable.
KOIN 42% tonight but other nights nothing MAPS to correctly if I enter 6 or 40.
KATU 55% MAPS correctly
TBN never displayed anything at 45-1
KGW 40% stable and good quality does not display 8 or MAP
KPDS 25% not real stable but OK MAPS correctly
KPXG 90% STRONG signal, 480i and poor PQ, does anyone know if PAX has HD content in other markets?

Lee, not sure what you did but last night I watched CSI in HD (well, after it finally flipped into HD anyway) and the audio was fine as always. But I stuck around to see how the local news would fare and it was clear and strong! Checked again this morning and I didn' t detect any wispyness or static so it seems you must have hit upon something. Big improvement. Thank you very much :cool:.

ron

KPXG 90% STRONG signal, 480i and poor PQ, does anyone know if PAX has HD content in other markets?
What channel is PAX? I didn't realize they had a digital channel up yet.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Marissadad
What channel is PAX? I didn't realize they had a digital channel up yet.

Thanks.
Marissadad, they just went live. Channel 4, remapped to 22-1 (KPXG-DT) , 22-2 (PAX-East), 22-3 (PAX-Worship), and 22-4 (PAX-Faith).
They're coming in at 95% signal for me.

nater, from what I've read, don't expect HD from PAX anytime soon, if ever.

Earl

(edited to add signal strength)

So we have our first VHF-LOW DTV station. Getting 85% here in Fairview with a 811 receiver.

Thanks Earl, I'll give it a shot tonight.

Originally posted by mntmst
So we have our first VHF-LOW DTV station. 22 is VHF?

I think the channel 4 remapped to 22 got him.

I haven't been able to see KPTV either for several days. Very strange. I have an old HiPix card in my PC. I'll try to rescan channels and see if I can get it.

-Dan

It worked! I now have FOX in 720p... And I realize that I could have watched the World Series in HD. D'oh! Now I guess we just get one NFL game instead of choosing between a couple of games like I could a few weekends ago.

Also, for some very odd reason, the UPN station reads as 65 Mbps... very odd. Must be a HiPix card glitch.

Dan

Originally posted by dgehred
Also, for some very odd reason, the UPN station reads as 65 Mbps... very odd. Must be a HiPix card glitch.Yeah, the picture's great, but it's not that great. :p

I flipped into 12-1 last night during commercials for Without a Trace, and got a blank screen. Several times. It wasn't like there was no signal though as my meter read high, the "no signal" banner didn't pop up and you could clearly see the lighter shade of black on the 16x9 portion of my screen. I guess the lights were on but nobody was home...

ron

I mapped in PAX this morning, does anyone know what the abbreviations for the first subchannel mean?

I had a weird glitch this morning, I normally tune in the analog channels while browsing because they tune instantly and when I tuned in Fox, my 6000 rebooted. Normally it will do this if a digital channel gets remapped but I've never had it happen with an analog channel.

Anyone catch Bedazzled on FOX last night? PQ was pretty good and it was OAR.

Originally posted by R11
Lee, not sure what you did but last night I watched CSI in HD (well, after it finally flipped into HD anyway) and the audio was fine as always. But I stuck around to see how the local news would fare and it was clear and strong! Checked again this morning and I didn' t detect any wispyness or static so it seems you must have hit upon something. Big improvement. Thank you very much :cool:.

ron Actually, we've so busy getting ready for election coverage that we have not had time to dink with it since Monday.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by R11
I flipped into 12-1 last night during commercials for Without a Trace, and got a blank screen. Several times. It wasn't like there was no signal though as my meter read high, the "no signal" banner didn't pop up and you could clearly see the lighter shade of black on the 16x9 portion of my screen. I guess the lights were on but nobody was home...

ron

Ron, After the movie (Bedazzled) I was waiting for the news and for some reason the local channel didn't seem to flip back from the "national" feed. At least that's been my initial impression based on a "tiny" logo on the upper left corner. Analog channel kept humming along with the news at 10.

BTW, I was impressed with the movie being shown in correct aspect ratio. Kudos to Fox for that!

Hormoz

Originally posted by Lee Wood
Actually, we've so busy getting ready for election coverage that we have not had time to dink with it since Monday.:rolleyes: Well then, that was easier than you thought huh? :). I watched Survivor and some of your news last night and again this morning and the audio was still coming through clear as a bell. I haven't changed anything on my end. I'll keep checking and let you know if it resurfaces.

Hormoz, I figured it must have been a switching error (especially after Marissadad said the movie was on before hand). I thought the new splicer was supposed to help eliminate those issues...

ron

I got PAX dialed in on Dish & Voom and I have great signal strength, up at 99 and for having 4 channels, the first 2 look pretty decent for SD.

I just punched Pax in this evening as well, and am getting a solid 90%. And most everything else seems back to normal from prior to early this week, or close to it. KATU's coming in between 80-83% (used to be a solid 85), KOIN runs about 85% (used to be 90), KGW's around 80% (formerly 85), KOPB almost reaches 90% (couldn't tell you what it was before) as does KPTV (about the same), and KWBP still runs about 65%+, which is just enough to get a relatively solid picture on non-HD content (more or less), but breaks to pieces for HD.

However, KPDX is still giving me a great deal of trouble. The weirdest part is how intermittant - and yet solid - the signal can be. It's doesn't wildly fluctuate from one reading to another, and it doesn't seem to float between figures, it'll just go from 0 (which can last for several minutes) to about 70% (formerly a solid 80) for a period of time, then back to 0 (or as the Dish 811 reports it, 49%, because nothing exists below that number as far as it's concerned). It's always long periods out followed by relatively shorter periods in. Occasionally, the time periods can be relatively short on both ends, but under no circumstances is there anything in-between. It'd be like someone just sticking their hand in front of a dish's LNB, it's either all or nothing. There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to it. This is rather inexcusable for a roof-top antenna with relatively clear line of sight (trees notwithstanding). It seems rather too convenient to leave to coincidence that all these problems just happened to start the day Pax went online. *shrug*

Unfortunately, that meant no reliable Enterprise viewing for me tonight. :( Too bad, what I could see of it looked good too.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, I too no longer hear the static or phase variance on KOIN's local content. Glad to see someone fixed it, even if Lee wasn't aware. :) Interestingly enough, I do notice a phase variance on Pax's main channel; I tuned in briefly to that "Kid's Talent" show hosted by Dave Coulier, and it was all over the place between left and right speakers (I had my headphones on).

2nd EDIT: Ok, not sure how this got posted twice? I guess it managed to receive the post even though it timed out on my end. Please feel free to remove the post, I'm not sure how to do it myself.

3rd EDIT: Ahh, there we go, found the "Delete" checkbox under the main "Edit" window. I always use "QuickEdit."

Unfortunately, that meant no reliable Enterprise viewing for me tonight. Too bad, what I could see of it looked good too.
Enterprise was gorgeous and it's 720P. I wonder how it would look at 1080i?

Hi all,

I've been looking for posts from anyone in West Linn. I'm having a dish installed with an ota antena, and wondered what to expect from this location. We're pretty far up the hill here, so I would assume reception would be good, but thought I would ask.

TIA,

Craig

Originally posted by Marissadad
Enterprise was gorgeous and it's 720P. I wonder how it would look at 1080i? UPN broadcasts in 1080i. Is Enterprise produced in 720p?

Originally posted by calambert
Hi all,

I've been looking for posts from anyone in West Linn. I'm having a dish installed with an ota antena, and wondered what to expect from this location. We're pretty far up the hill here, so I would assume reception would be good, but thought I would ask.

TIA,

Craig

I'm just below the hill top off Sunset Ave. (The backside away from the towers.) and have to use a very unconventional antenna set up. I have two 8 bay bow tie antenna's stacked horizontally. I get =-70% on all stations except KGW and KOPB which vary between 50% and 60%. (KGW, KOPB and PAX originate from the same tower.)

If your on the Portland side of the West Linn hills you probably won't have any problems. If your on the Oregon City side of the hills you might be in for some work. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks.

Installers are here now, and one of the problems with the OTA is that it cannot be visible from the street. (Neigborhood code). They're going to try an antena with a booster on it in the attic. We'll see..........

Originally posted by scowl
UPN broadcasts in 1080i. Is Enterprise produced in 720p?
Sorry, I had a brainfart. I forgot that I went into my pj settings the other night and set DVI fo 720P. I used to have it set for Auto and it would accept the Native rate of the channel.

I just scanned PAX into my Voom stb and it is VHF 4 but assigned as 22.

I've lost the program guide for all but KOIN, is anyone else still getting it for other channels?

heh!! KOIN lost it's guide and remapping now...

Earl