Calembert
I don't claim to be an expert, but FCC regulations supercede neighborhood regs, and allow you to have an antenna for OTA reception that can't be blocked by HOA or Neighborhood covents. Bottom line, if your antenna is seen from the street, so be it.
Check the FCC website for the appropriate documentation

Thanks for the input guys. The installers put an amplified antena in the attic and the reception is great. I'm pulling in the local channels at 80.

scottcorina
you are right about the hill here. The installers said West Linn is 50/50 with reception.

michael goldman
That's good to know! I'm happy I was able to pull this off without bothering anyone. With neighborhood associations there is always someone who gets bent out of shape over nothing.

Calambert
Who did you use for installation. I'm on "other side" of the hill. on the cliff above the 10th street exit off 205. OTA reception is nonexistent
Thanks in advance

I know this is a HDTV forum, but I have a question concerning WB on Channel. I used to recieve a good WB picture OTA on VHF channel 4 (and a rather poor one on channel 32). I also recived a decent HD pic on 32-1.

However I only have one DT reciever so end up watching OTA channel 4 vairly often (while HD is watching something else).

This week WB disappeare off of channel 4. I see from some other posts that PAX is now broadcasting on channel 4, which matches what I saw when I checked signal strength. It showed channel 4 as digital, and 85-90 signal strength. Two questions though:

1. Is WB going to moving to another VHF station?

2. While I had strong signal strength on PAX 4, There was no picture, is it live now?

Thanks,
Rick

By the way, I've been watching UPN 49-1 Enterprise on HD and it really is impressive. Generally my best HD pic come in on KOIN, but Enterprise is excellent in HD.

Michael,

I used Dirtect TV for the install. BTW, they are now installing the RCA DTC-210. Very nice receiver.

Calambert,

I am down the hill from you in Lake Oswego and the only trouble I get is from wind and rain causing the large trees around my house to disrupt the signal. BTW, I also have an attic antenna.

Last night both of my hd receivers were picking up KOIN on 40-1 again.

Is this an equipment or personnel problem?

KOIN is known for having a crappy PSIP server (it runs on a Windows platform). Lee has posted before that it crashes frequently, I suppose this was the issue last night? I was too busy with Halloween to watch TV last night.

Granted my OYA reception is crappy. wromg side of the hill in West Linn, However was able to get KOIN at least 75% of the time. However over the last month it hasn't come in once. Can't be weather, since cloudy drizzly weather always improved reception in the past. Any change in KOIN's signal strength?
By the way, any rec's on antenna installers, might want to give it another chance, and also consider an Amp.
Thanks

Originally posted by lewlew
Last night both of my hd receivers were picking up KOIN on 40-1 again.

Is this an equipment or personnel problem?

I had the same experience, beginning on Sat. with the SEC football game. It stayed on 40-1 thru last night. I was gone for over 2 weeks and disconnected all my electronics. When I reconnected, I had to rescan for stations on my Zenith HD receiver. Did that Sat. and 6-1 and 6-2 were missing but 40-1,2 were active. I think marissadad is correct that it's KOIN thing.

Has KATU brought 2-2 down? I don't see that in my channel list any longer. And did I see that someone reported a signal from PAX on 4-1? I don't get anything on 4.

Bob

I heard that 2-2 was gone. I never watch it so I can't verify it. PAX is up. It is a VHF channel 4 but maps to 22 with 3 sub channels for a total of 4.

Originally posted by hilladen
Calambert,

I am down the hill from you in Lake Oswego and the only trouble I get is from wind and rain causing the large trees around my house to disrupt the signal. BTW, I also have an attic antenna.

hilladen,

Did you find that you had to tweek your placement to find the optimum location? I'm getting abc, and nbc at 80 to 90. Fox and PBS came in strong at night, but I experienced drop offs during the day. (They either come in at 80 or not at all.). koin comes and goes, but this seems to be a problem for all. I have the antenna laying on the attic floor. How is yours set up? should I elevate it? Any advice for more consistant results on all stations?

TIA,

Craig

Yes, I had to play a very fun game of climbing into my attic and turning the antenna a little going back down to the TV and checking the signal strength, and repeating a few times until I found which position gave me the best overall performance. I am able to most station around 93 - 100 with the WB being a little lower and FOX and UPN being in the mid 80s. So I would imagine once you went ahead and did that you may be able to improve performance on some stations. I also have my antenna sitting on a pole and not on the floor. I am not sure if that would matter all that much.

Do you have a long run from the antenna to the receiver, if my understanding is correct, a fairly long run can cause issues because the coax can act as an antenna and cause some problems.

I would imagine some one else who is involved in this thread could better respond to the possible coax issue.

Guys (& Gals): HD Alert on OPB:

November 18, 2004

8:30 PM CRATER LAKE, THE MIRROR OF HEAVEN - ( CC STEREO HD )

calambert: elevating the antenna will help. getting it on your roof would help even more. The best thing to do is what hilladen said, except with someone else watching the TV and yelling "better" or "worse" as you adjust it (saves all teh up and down), or best yet is to get a portable TV in the attic with you.

ridgefamus: I had a similar experience with KOIN this weekend. I turned on the Eagles game and was getting what appeared to be an analog feed on 6-1. After tinkering a bit I rescanned the channels and 6 came back as 40-1. I shrugged my shoulders and just watched it there, but it was odd.

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Has KATU brought 2-2 down? I don't see that in my channel list any longer.Originally posted by Marissadad
I heard that 2-2 was gone. I never watch it so I can't verify it. And so he did.

Originally posted by Moorebid
And so he did.

Yes, he did and we probably shouldn't remind him to restart the mulitcast.
;)

Bob

Hmmm, odd phenomena. Odder than the bus routes. It seems that the WB comes in great when my wife is watching "Gilmore Girls" but is not so great the rest of the time. Is the WB doing something different at this time? or is there a "Gilmore Girls" exception in the digital TV viewing rule book?

I don't really watch much (anything?) on WB so I don't know about lately. But when they first started their HD transmissions I found that for some reason their signal was strong during the network shows, and was much less so the rest of the time...

ron

Maybe someone here can help me or direct me to the right person at KGW. I have received KGW HD OTA for over two years with no problems up until now. When they made a change to their PSIP broadcast to add program guide information a few weeks ago, my Hitachi XWX (built in OTA HD tuner) lost the ability to lock on the KGW signal. I get the dreaded black screen and difficulty even switching off the channel. Yesterday the tuner completely froze while scanning through KGW and I had to unplug and reboot the TV.

Two weeks ago I emailed KGW and got a quick response that my problem had been referred to the technical department and they would contact me. A week and a half later after hearing nothing, I sent a follow-up email which generated a quick apology saying it had been referred to the correct department this time. However, still no response.

Have others out there had this problem? Does anyone have any guidance on who to call directly at KGW to get some response? I am virtually certain that it is a problem with the way they implemented their PSIP changes which affects my ( and others?) tuner.

Any help would be appreciated!

Steve

Eric Dausman is the Engineer at KGW: EDausman@kgw.com

Did anyone else experience a lot of very brief audio drops during CSI last night?

Yes. I recorded it with my MyHD card and when I watched it I noticed the short audio drop outs too. I assumed it was just a reception problem on my side. Although I normally don't have that problem.

I rarely have any audio issues with KOIN HD either.

Definitely yes. I was thinking of Lee Wood last night during the show :).

ron

Funny to hear about KOIN last night. I was lazy and didn't re-do my inputs to watch OTA so I settled with Comcast HD programming. I watched about half of North Shore on Fox and it was beset with short audio dropouts, too. I had to recheck my source to be sure it wasn't an OTA antenna problem. So whatever faulty signal Fox was sending Comcast, they were passing it through. Anyone watch Fox OTA and get the same audio problem?

Bob

I only watched about 5 minutes of the OC then turned the channel, the faces were way too red and in that time I didn't notice any dropouts.

I too had multiple audio dropouts on KOIN last night.
KOIN is still the only channel I'm receiving program info from. KPTV, KPDX, KWBP teased us for a short while and KGW gave a little tickle, but nothing since.

Earl

We now have 5.1 Dolby audio being broadcast in time for the Lord of the Rings from the network on Sunday. I'd like some feedback about how this works so please shoot me an e-mail at pshearer@tribune.com after you get a chance to sample our sound. Specifically, let me know if the transitions in and out of network audio around the local breaks are free of pops and dropouts. If you watch Rings, just pay attention when we have our local commercials and see if the transitions sound clean. Thanks in advance for your help.

We are using an audio splicer that is so new that the first one ever to be installed was this past Monday at our company's station in NYC. They went through a few days of hell with the network getting things to work correctly while making software revisions and adjusting audio delays. We got ours installed locally about 5:30 last night and I listened last night on my Sylvania 6900DTD ATSC/NTSC tuner and it sounded great into my Onkyo receiver through the coax input. I also left an LG 3100 receiver setup in our workshop at the station feeding into a Yamaha recever by coax for our master control operator to check last night and on Sunday. So far, it seems to be doing what it is supposed to be.

I promise, I'll get back to the PSIS problem again some day soon but I have just been too bogged down with our analog channel 4 to 5 change that the FCC forced on us to make room for KPXG-DT. :confused:

Pat Shearer
Chief Engineer
Portland's WB
KWBP analog 32
KWBP-DT digital 33
KWBP-LP analog 5

Pat, thanks for the heads up, good work.

Pat, thanks again for all of your efforts. While I do appreciate having the program guide, I can guarantee you that a high quality HD picture and stable sound is more important to me. I've no problem waiting for you to get a breather before you tackle the PSIP problems.

I'm looking forward to checking out LOTR in HD and wishing I didn't have to make even more choices of which Sunday programs I watch in HD and which get relegated to SVHS to watch later. :)

Earl

edited to add.... I'm absolutely NOT complaining about the number of choices available!!!! (just wishing I could watch more of them)

Thanks Pat,

Now if only I could get a strong enough signal off of you. :) I haven't been able to watch any of this season of Smallville, as ~65% is just not enough for my Dish 811. Previous to that, I'd caught several reruns during the summer that had no such problems. Granted, I was using a Dish 6000 at the time, but it was getting closer to 80%, whereas now it's closer to 70%.

Unfortunately, that's the only consistancy I've had for the past couple weeks. Not a day goes by that at least one of the OTA channels are unreceivable, and with every new day it's a different channel, with every one having its share of difficulties - the exceptions being KWBP and KPXG. To be fair, I barely watch KPXG, but every time I've tuned in, it's been near 90% and solid. But whether it's KATU today, or KPTV yesterday, or KPDX the day before, something is always affected. It's some coincidence that this started the same day KPXG got your frequencies. *shrug* Having not had any problems with this same roof-top antenna for a year prior, with no adjustments to its orientation whatsoever, some coincidence indeed.

So why is the game on KOIN not in HD?

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
So why is the game on KOIN not in HD?

You're kidding, of course. CBS produces 3 of their games in HD and I'm sure this classic matchup today of the 2-6 Raiders vs. the 1-6 Panthers was not high on their HD list.:D

I'm ticked we do not get to see the best match of the day: Eagles vs. Steelers.

Seahawks/Niners should be HD on Fox.

Bob

I can't believe we have to watch the 2-6 Raiders and the 1-6 Panthers in SD when we could be watching the 7-0 Eagles and the 6-1 Steelers in HD, THE NFL GAME OF THE WEEK. We have 3 CBS local HD feeds, why not use one of them to show the game that a majority of football fans would rather see

A little SD football now and then will make you appreciate HD more. :D At least it wasn't fogged out like the OSU/USC game last night! "Worst picture ever!" :D

Eagles v. Steelers was a FOX game. FOX only had one game this weekend and of course for us it had to be the Seahawks - our "home" team (LOL)!
The best we could have done at 10AM on CBS was Jets-Bills.

Pat,
The sound on "Lord of the Rings" is AMAZING!
I was worried because the Steve Harvey sound was terrible... very harsh treble with sibilant "s" sounds everywhere.
But LOTR sounds wonderful in 5.1! I'm also one of the people who do not mind reframing it to 16:9... BUT, the WB logo is REALLY annoying! It can't be ignored, and it is inset (for 4:3 screens, I guess) instead of being tucked as far into the corner as possible. It ruins the film, IMO.
I'm switching to "The Simpsons" anyway, since I have LOTR on DVD.

Hi Pat, the audio on LOTR did sound good, but it was slightly out of sync for me.
Worse was the pixelization I was getting. It really didn't look very good and I ended up changing channels.
Sorry. :(

Earl

I'd just like to second the extreme obnoxiousness of the WB logo, sticks out like a sore thumb… especially during darker scenes like the opening battle, it's way too bright, far too opaque, it should be more translucent…

But I do mind the crop-job in this case. Sure, Super35 can be reframed to 16:9 pretty successfully if the SFX are rendered at that aspect ratio. However, with these films it is very evident that many of those effects were not framed as such, resulting in some noticable picture loss on the sides. *sigh* HD-DVD/Blu-Ray can't come soon enough.

Anyway, what I could hear of the audio sounded good, but it was about 90% breaking up. *sigh* If only Comcast would get their Moxi's already.

I didn't notice any audio sync problems in LOTR at the beginning, but I just checked it again at 9:45 and there was a definite audio lag that was almost as annoying as the logo.

I must have had some of the "tree leaf" reception problems in my neighborhood this summer, because my signal strength on some OTA channels (KWBP and KGW, mainly) has greatly improved in the last month. The KWBP-DT signal has been rock-solid lately and every time I switch back to check on LOTR the picture has no artifacts or break-ups.

I have to agree that the WB logo is sure obnoxious but that's the way it comes from the network and unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about it. However, the sound was spectacular on my home system - just like with a dvd in the player. :) I didn't see any macro blocking and the lip sync was fine when I sampled it but then again, I didn't actually watch the movie enough to know for sure.

As for reception problems, I agree that it is a mixed bag on a daily basis. I am using a silver sensor just sitting on the floor behind the tv and most of the time, all the stations are rock solid. Tonight, KGW was the exception and last night it was KOIN. I have fairly consistent trouble decoding the audio from KATU but the picture is great so it must be a quirk with my receiver and the audio pids in their stream. We are still a ways from true plug and play for Joe Sixpack to enjoy DTV.

Well, as the advertising says, "We make progress everyday". I'm glad you guys appreciate the efforts because as the rest of the engineers in this business can tell you, you're the ones that make this all worthwhile. A few compliments and thank you's are definitely welcomed.

Pat

Pat, it was mainly during the action scenes and I was watching with a more critical eye to try and give the best feedback to you I could. I've a feeling it was more to due with the HD transfer and network feed than with KWBP.
If it weren't for the fact I own all three parts in the theatrical version and the two extended versions that have been released so far I would have watched it all. :)
I'm fortunate to live close enough I don't have many of the issues with reception I've seen mentioned by others. I always have a strong solid signal from you.

There's no doubt I/we do appreciate your efforts and also you taking the time to stop in here and keeping us updated.

Oh and Great job with being one of the few WB stations broadcasting DD5.1

I watched the first 10 minutes and agree with the DD 5.1, it had my couch darn near doing the jig and the walls breathing heavily during the scene where the ring was cut from the finger and that shock wave emanated through the army. The picture was solid for me except for the aforementioned pixelation on fast scenes. Closeups didn't look much better than the DVD, but it was quite evident on wide shots that it was HD.

I agree with the logo and was disappointed WB did not present it in OAR, maybe the picture would have been more crisp?

Thanks for the HD and the DD 5.1 Pat.

*sigh* If only Comcast would get their Moxi's already.And come to an agreement with KOIN/CBS. And pick up FOX/UPN HD (if they haven't already).

Pat, WB comes in solid for me once the signal locks. But it takes a loooong time to acquire and lock on. FWIW, up until a few weeks ago it locked much more normally. Great work adding the DD 5.1! Quality sound is so much a part of a good HD presentation. Here's another vote for you to put some affiliate pressure on WB to change the network bug. I'm not a big network movie presentation person for various reasons but I checked in a couple times last night during LOTR to check it out and the logo was definitely a distraction at best. The PQ was not all that good either but I'm sure that had nothing to do with your local efforts though. As you said, everybody's making slow progress and your's is very much appreciated too. Thanks again.

ron

comcast has fox, but not UPN.

Emmis communication executives should burn in hell for their criems against HD>

Pat: I resoundingly second all the kudos expressed above. I thought the DD5.1 was superb. I listened intently for those breakups between local ads and the network feed and did not hear any. It all happened pretty seemlessly for those transitions. It was not until about the 8:30 show resumption that I first perceived the lip/sound sync problem. At the time, I thought it was minute enough to not be a bother. But as the show proceeded, it seemed to me that the delay became more pronounced. I thought the PQ was excellent, at least as good as my DVD extended edition. Thanks for all your efforts.

BTW, I began by watching via Comcast Ch 703 but then flipped to OTA using my Silver Sensor to a Zenith 420 stb. I had no signal acquisition problems as R11 reported. It's always been immediate with my Zenith.

Bob

Anyone else experience frequent audio stuttering on KATU during Desperate Housewives last night? I had this both OTA and via Comcast and noticed my receiver going in and out of DD5.1 and ProLogic in concert with the breaks. By the time Boston Legal came on all was well.:confused:

Bob

I thought the PQ was excellent, at least as good as my DVD extended edition.Bob your standards are just too low :). Again, no knock on Alan as I really don't think it had anything to do with the local end here at KWBP.

I had DHW on and didn't really notice any stuttering. But I wasn't watching closely though because I was mounting my new bindings on my snowboard at the time.

ron

I'm a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the frequent and annoying audio dropouts during the KOIN HD football yesterday afternoon. Am I the only one or is everybody resigned to audio problems?

receiver: HD TiVo optical out to Marantz AV Amp.

Larry: I did experience that on KOIN as well. But as my standards are a bit lower than most, who am I to complain?:p

Comcast 712 is FOX, Jim. KOIN is OTA, only.

BTW, just saw a news report on CNBC that Comcast is rolling out a DVR (didn't specify model) to Washington State subs this week. Maybe trickle-down will make us next?

BTW, just saw a news report on CNBC that Comcast is rolling out a DVR (didn't specify model) to Washington State subs this week. Maybe trickle-down will make us next?
According to this thread <link> (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=455705) Comcast is supposed to be rolling out the Moxi box here next month.

Since our Best Buys didn't carry the LST-3410, so no $549 closeout for me, I figure it may be the least expensive way to get a HD-DVR. :)

Earl

What's up with KATU. Keeps dropping. Very annoying trying to watch the game.

you beat me to the post. MNF started bad in SD, switched to HD late. I tried to require KATU and lost it completely. Can fog have an effect on OTA signal? Its peasoup out here in Damascus. Normally I get great reception.

Yup, KATU is constantly freezing up tonight. My signal is consistantly strong, but MNF is unwatchable so it must be their problem. And when the picture isn't frozen, the audio is way out of sync, early instead of late this time. Didn't I read somewhere ABC is doing a 7-second delay on MNF this season in case Janet Jackson shows up unexpectedly? I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Whatever is the cause, it's not effecting my signal level either. It sure makes it hard to watch though.

I've got solid signal but the data rate drops to 0 about every 5-10 seconds.

Now it's back to SD again.

BTW, I'm on comcast so it has nothing to do with the fog.

It didn't help. :p

KATU OTA is sending bursts of chewup MPEG garbage even when they're sending SD. It sucks but at least it's giving me a chance to improve the error correction code in xine and mplayer. :D

anyone contacted them?

I sent an email, but that probably won't amount to much. Vikings are sucking it up anyway, so no need to watch the agony on a crystal clear picture :D

OK, just got HD back, actually it happened during the last wave of commercials. I could tell because there was a hiccup in the sound and my receiver switched from pro logic II to dolby digital. So, as of right now HD pic and 5.1 sound.

They're only 11 points behind! And the HD is back! See, you have to think positive about these things.

Unfortunately their OTA is still turning into a random number generator every few seconds but they're coming through OK through Comcast.

Hey KATU has the OTA working now if someone out there is still trying.

Yeah, I'm glad KATU got it fixed for the 2nd half... I really did not want to watch "Fear Factor"!
BTW, I just checked LOTR tonight and the DD5.1 sounds excellent again and the audio is in sync, at least at the beginning. Last night the audio became slightly delayed later in the film.
The picture looks very good and I'm having a hard time spotting any fast motion artifacts. I think the only ones I can spot occur when the motion is so fast that the screen is mostly a blur anyway.
The WB logo must be made smaller and more translucent - and move it to the corner for widescreen TVs! ABC's logo is much better. Of course, better still would be no logo. I remember there wasn't any FOX logo for the premiere of "The O.C." - was that a mistake? It was nice, even for just one week. I had forgotten how much I missed looking at a bug-free screen. FOX's new logo is nicely tucked into the corner but the light blue color against a dark blue background makes it a little too prominent.

Heads up, Lee,

Tuned in to Listen Up on 6.1 this evening and heard a large amount of dialog coming out of the rear speakers (but no static) through the PLII decoder. I plugged the headphones in and the audio was much louder in the right speaker than the left. 6.2, however, sounds perfectly centerered. I didn't get a chance to listen for the local commercials, just the network content, but the issue did follow the network commercials and now to Two and a Half Men.

Was it just my stb or did the sound lag seriously behind the video later in tonight's LOTR? I would appreciate someone confirming or denying this problem. I checked at the beginning of the show and it was right on but by the tail end, it seemed about 1/2 second off. When we switched to the local upconverted commercial break, it was exactly in sync again. I will check into it in the morning and see if the network had some "drift" like it seems they did on Sunday night. This is very frustrating to troubleshoot when the feeds we receive are not consistent. I don't want to have to live at the station 24/7 so that I can keep an eye (and ear) on the signal.

The trouble with the lip sync issue is that with the new 5.1 equipment installed, there are 3 additional places where the sound timing can change and we really have no equipment except our eyes and ears to use for "precision measurement" of the timing. We can only make adjustments when the various signals are actually on-air which means that the network feed can only be tested and adjusted between 8 and 10pm.

BTW, I will copy and paste your various comments about the network bug from this forum into an e-mail to the network engineering staff. We have a great relationship with them and I hope they will listen so if anyone else wants to add comments, bring it on! I will also pass along some of the compliments so they don't think I'm just a big whiner :)

Thanks to all of you for your feedback as it helps me quite a bit with my troubleshooting efforts. We'll keep at this until we get it right but you have to remember to keep things in perspective. NTSC broadcasting has been around for a lot longer than DTV and it took many years of experimentation to get to where we are with analog.

Pat

Pat, Is there any truth to our suspicions that KWBP-DT is putting out a weaker signal than several months ago?

OT: Guys, I'm asking for a little help here, I lost my job yesterday so I am fishing for any leads I can find. I am a Network Tech with 18 years Novell & a few years Windows experience. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Darrell

Scowl,

There is no truth to that rumor. Since day one (August 26, 2003), we have always broadcast with a power level of 750kW except those 3 days at 1/2 power during the big snowstorm of 2004 when I was waiting for the airport to open so I could get my repair parts.

The "signal level" reading on DTV receivers as well as those on Dish Network and DirecTV receivers is not purely signal strength. It is more of an inverse bit error rate reading. That essentially means that the more acurately the receiver is able to decode the signal without errors, the higher the reading. Signal strength is one factor that influences the reading but so is interference, multi-path reception and anything else that causes the decoder to have trouble extracting the data from the bitstream.

In the case of KWBP, we have one problem that I know of with an oscillator frequency drifting that causes some receivers to have problems decoding our signal while other receivers don't seem to care. We have a piece of equipment in the signal flow from our studio to the transmitter which is causing this problem. The oscillator is supposed to be locked to our GPS frequency standard but for some reason, it doesn't stay locked. The technical details are that it is a stream processor which converts the ASI out of our microwave to SMPTE 310M for the input of the transmitter. I need to pull that piece of equipment out of the circuit for repairs but I need something else to do the ASI/310M conversion. I was going to try putting one of our HD satellite receivers in there to do the job since it has that abillity but it up and died on me so I have no spare. The receiver was sent to the manufacturer for repair over a month ago and when I get it back, I will try again to use it so that I can pull the stream processor out of the system.

Unfortunately, what this illustrates is the lack of redundancy that all broadcasters are faced with when dealing with our DTV signals. On the analog side of the business, we have lots of ways to route signals around broken equipment to keep our signals on the air to the viewers. However, with DTV, most of the equipment is highly specialized and we have just one of each piece so if anything in the system fails, we are unable to broadcast a digital signal. This will change over time as we invest much more money into DTV to increase the reliability but until then, we have limited backups for those inevitable equipment failures.

Pat

Originally posted by Pat Shearer
Was it just my stb or did the sound lag seriously behind the video later in tonight's LOTR? I would appreciate someone confirming or denying this problem.

Pat

Hi Pat,

I watched the whole 2nd half last night, and the sound lag was drifting in and out throughout the whole show for me. Some times it was pretty much right on, and other times it was really out of synch (reminded me of dubbed Kung Fu movies :) ). Other than the sound lag issues though, I was REALLY enjoying the 5.1 sound through my Denon receiver. I did hear one high-pitched squeak/pop at a commercial transition, but it wasn't too bad, and I only heard it once. Just for reference, I'm using a LG LST-4200 STB.

Scott

Pat: I didn't discern an audio lag until the start of the last half hour. (Actually, I didn't tune in to watch dedicatedly until the MNF game was over so I was switching back and forth - sorry, there are priorities.) When I did notice the lag I thought about how LOTR is really a pretty poor specimen to try to pick out a lag. A lot of the dialog is mumbled through clenched teeth or dubbed into the film to begin with.

While a fraction of a second delay is hard to ignore after you realize it is occurring and annoying as all heck, you were heads and shoulders above KATU last night when they experienced about a 2 second lag/advance for much of the 1st half of MNF. That is, after they finally switched to the HD feed about 15 minutes into the program time.

But your 5.1 sound was as thrilling to hear as it is from my LOTR DVD. There certainly didn't appear to me to be any degradation of that part of the signal. And again, I didn't hear any problems in your transitions between network and local spots.

Received last night via Comcast over Motorola 6200 cable box with component cables to a Sony WS RPTV. Digital audio out to a JVC HT receiver.

Bob

I echo the sentiment about the WB logo being obtrusive. I know station logos are the in thing right now, but I'd much rather have them off in a corner and way more transparent that what the WB is using.

Pat, as noted by others, no it wasn't just your stb that experienced audio lags. ;)

Earl

I lost KATU-HD on my box when I tried to re-scan. Now I don't find it at all in a scan. is there a channel # to enter for a manual load?

fish mojo, try 43.

Anybody find out what the problem with KATU was last night? Not seeing any data drops tonight.

Pat,
I tuned back in for the last half-hour of LOTR on Monday night and noticed the audio lag was back, although not quite as bad as it was in the latter part of Sunday's broadcast. Both nights started out in sync, though. Since I didn't watch the whole broadcast I couldn't say exactly when the lag became noticable.

Another night (or two), another new set of difficulties.

While KATU, KOIN and KPTV are about as high as I've seen them recently (80%, 85% and 90%, respectively, although KOIN takes several seconds before it locks, two nights now), KGW is virtually non-existant for the second night in a row, occasionally (like, once or twice an hour) coming in for a few seconds-to-a minute around 70%, then nothing… zero, not even a blip. Now tonight, KPDX is almost steady 49%, completely unreceivable, and it just so happens to be Veronica Mars night. *growl* The analog channel comes in a bit snowy, but no ghosting. Maybe an amp would help…

Also, KPTV seems not to be remapping to 12-1, they're coming in on 30-1 (and this new Branson reality show is in HD! I guess that technically makes it the first, seeing as how ABC never aired The Benefactor as such…)

KPTV is coming in on 30-3 for me.
Nothing on 30-1 or 30-2.

I'm having a problem programming KPTV into my Dish HD receiver. I try an auto scan and it wont get it. I manual enter 30 into the local OTA channels and it shows 85%. Enter a name for it, then go to save and it won't take. I know this works because I did it for ch.43 KATU. Dish tech support can't figure it out either.

KATU... here we go again. HD... SD... nothing

KATU is just not having a good HD week. Tonight their signal was OK but they were sending garbage every few seconds like on Monday and it's affecting both OTA and Comcast. So we're back to SD for Lost.

Maybe they'll have this fixed for the encore presentation on Saturday.

I called the KATU NewsDesk, talked to Norm about the major problems we're having, he transferred me to engineering, where Al was feverishly working on the problem. Al was particularly distraught as he loves the show and this was going to be his first viewing in HD (which he doesn't have at home), so let's hope the gorgeousness of this show motivates him. :)

Good luck Alan!!

Originally posted by fish mojo
I'm having a problem programming KPTV into my Dish HD receiver. I try an auto scan and it wont get it. I manual enter 30 into the local OTA channels and it shows 85%. Enter a name for it, then go to save and it won't take. I know this works because I did it for ch.43 KATU. Dish tech support can't figure it out either. Sounds like you got a 921… you'll have to wait until KPTV gets their PSIP encoder fixed, the 921 requires channel mapping (to anything, as long as there's something). Up until a few weeks ago, 921 users couldn't add it to their channel list for anything; once they got their PSIP encoders, it should have worked, but they've been having problems for the past day or two…

If it's the 811 or 6000, well… that's news to me.

Thank you moorebid. That sounds logical, if not confusing to non tekkie types.

I'm not holding much hope for Saving Private Ryan in HD on KATU tomorrow night. I was hoping to get a good HD recording.

It's so disappointing......

Steve

Originally posted by fish mojo
Thank you moorebid. That sounds logical, if not confusing to non tekkie types. Perhaps a bit of clarification; you may know that the digital channel number does not usually match the channel to which you actually tune. For example, 010-01 is actually channel 27, 032-01 is 33, etc. The problem (and this is Dish's problem, to be certain) is that, for whatever reason, the 921 requires a digital station to specify what their channel number is, using what is called a PSIP encoder, which can broadcast, among other things, program information, duration, etc. It's not good enough to just tune in to the frequency. Previous to last month, KPTV's digital channel 30 had no remapping, so one would actually input 030-01 to tune in, and the 921 doesn't like that. However, KPTV did acquire a PSIP encoder last month during their conversion to 720P HD. But for reasons so far unbeknownst, that encoder has ceased functioning (at least properly) for the past couple of days.

Hope that clears up a bit.

On another topic, the watchdog never sleeps… KPDX missed the HD switch for Kevin Kill this evening. A call to their Hotline was not so responsive, as it remained in SD for the duration of the intro. But they managed to switch after the first commercial break.

Is anyone else getting a lot of audio dropouts on KOIN tonight?

So far tonight we have:

More ABC HD problems on "Lost".

"Kevin Hill" on UPN was not HD until after the first commercial.

Annoying momentary audio drop-outs on KOIN.

And I can add that "Smallville" on WB had dozens of freeze-ups that constantly interrupted the program for 2 seconds. I kept checking my signal strength meter but that wasn't the problem.
No freeze-ups on "Jack & Bobby" though.

Not to mention that KPTV-DT is screwing up tuners everywhere by only coming in on 30-3 for some reason, now with a "Fox12" corner bug that is small (good!) but too bright (bad!).

Originally posted by xsrsmithx
I'm not holding much hope for Saving Private Ryan in HD on KATU tomorrow night. I was hoping to get a good HD recording.
Steve Some ABC stations are cancelling Saving Private Ryan :Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41464-2004Nov10.html)

Strangest of all last night... Law and Order looked perfect from beginning to end.

Originally posted by JimProuty
Some ABC stations are cancelling Saving Private Ryan :Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41464-2004Nov10.html) No offense to any of you spiritual people out there but the religious wackos in this country are simply out of control. So, are we going to get Saving Private Ryan or "Return to Mayberry" :rolleyes:. What a bunch of BS...

ron

Well you can also thank Janet and Bono for that too...

Karl, you are entirely right on that point. I seriously wish I could smack JJ upside the head right now. Dumb *&%#* :D. Insanely stupid move on her part and a total knee jerk over-reaction on the FCC's part to appease the religious right whiners. And now we have little ads in our posts too...

ron

What's up with KGW? Am I the only one not receiving a signal? Everything else is excellent......Not that it matters tonight as I'll be tuned to ABC, but I havn't been recieving a KGW signal for 24 hrs, and I've never had a problem with the station.

R11-

You don't mean to offend when you call me a "religious right whiner" and a "religious wacko"? What would you say that would be offensive?

BTW, I'm getting KGW just fine.

I talked with KATU's Mater Control moments ago and it seems they are having troubles with their HD feed. The engineer said the signal was breaking up badly enough that he felt that the movie should be shown in SD so we could at least see the picture. He hoped to have the problem resolved soon!

Just called KATU and they mentioned that "equipment difficulty" was preventing them from broadcasting Saving Private Ryan in HD.
It figures, the only time an unedited movie being broadcast by a network, and worth watching in HD, is not in HD !

Hormoz

They're having trouble showing an uneditted, commercial-free movie in HD? Imagine that!

Call me a conspiracy theory nutcase, but the "technical difficulty" story sounds too convenient. I wonder if there is more to the story.

KATU has been having trouble all week, I doubt it's any more than that.

KGW has been working for me.

Thanks Ed!! The channel mapping for KPTV is back along with the progam guides for both it, and KPDX.

Earl

Originally posted by calambert
What's up with KGW? Am I the only one not receiving a signal? Everything else is excellent......Not that it matters tonight as I'll be tuned to ABC, but I havn't been recieving a KGW signal for 24 hrs, and I've never had a problem with the station. Interesting that you mention that, I'd been having trouble receiving KGW for the first couple days this week, but today is the first day (could have been yesterday, I wasn't at home last night) since Pax went online that every channel is as strong as I've ever seen it; KATU (85%), KOIN (90%), KGW (85%), KOPB (90%), KPTV (90%), KPXG (90%), KWBP (65%) and KPDX (80%). However, KPDX still isn't working properly, appearing to be 49% almost every time I tune in. Only once have I managed to get it to tune, I just left it sit there for a few seconds (kinda like KOIN), and it eventually locked around 78-80%, and stayed that way for the entire duration of The Simpsons, but as soon as I tuned off and tried to tune back, I couldn't get it. I've left it sit there for 5 minutes trying to lock, to no avail. This is extremely discouraging, as I now know my signal is fine, but my receiver can't tune it for some reason. *shrug* And of all the channels to have this problem, it's one of two that still aren't carried on cable. *double shrug*

Conspiracy theory aside, I did not detect any problems with KATU-HD last night, or the night before (during limited viewing of their prime time programming).

It is just unfortunate that our local broadcaster (KATU) had to have an equipment failure, thus missing one of their largest HD viewing audience of the year.

Hormoz

In case you missed the earlier post, KATU was unable to present LOST in HD last night. They had problems the night before getting MNF up at first, although that was eventually overcome. So tonight is not an anomoly for KATU.

Seems tho' that the "limited commercial interruptions" of the SD SPR are just as frequent as ever. :( Would having it in HD make them more tolerable? I don't think that would be the case. I'm dissappointed in the whole presentation.

Bob

Originally posted by Moorebid
Heads up, Lee,

Tuned in to Listen Up on 6.1 this evening and heard a large amount of dialog coming out of the rear speakers (but no static) through the PLII decoder. I plugged the headphones in and the audio was much louder in the right speaker than the left. 6.2, however, sounds perfectly centerered. I didn't get a chance to listen for the local commercials, just the network content, but the issue did follow the network commercials and now to Two and a Half Men. *BUMP*

Still hearing the same stuff during CSI this evening. More accurately, that which should sound centered appears more favored toward the right, but sounds do still come through the left speaker, especially that which is specifically in the left channel. Anyone else noticing this?

Lost on Wed night was an abortion, they finally had to cut over to the SD feed about 10 minutes in. I had recorded it and was about to give up on it when it switched. The picture kept blanking out with a very irritating static noise in the audio. It broke up about every 5 seconds.

I tuned in SPR tonight and tuned over to Survivor when it was not HD. I'd rather watch the DVD.

All channels are coming in strong for me (90's) except WB, it's hanging around 74% and my Voom box is having fits with it. Dish 6000 locks it just fine at 74%.

I had many very brief a/v drops during Survivor tonight and on CSI, the sound seemed fine to me, but I had it down very low since my roommate had just turned in for the night.

Originally posted by Marissadad
I had many very brief a/v drops during Survivor tonight and on CSI, the sound seemed fine to me, but I had it down very low since my roommate had just turned in for the night. Try it with headphones, the balance is noticably off at any level. My PLII decoder just routes it all to the rears (or at least the right rear, I've not listened carefully to both, I just noticed that everyone seems to be talking behind me).

Hey Pat,

Thought you might be interested in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467559) over in the HDTV Programming forum… not a whole lot of useful information there, but apparantly audio sync wasn't an isolated problem.

Originally posted by bertschb
R11-

You don't mean to offend when you call me a "religious right whiner" and a "religious wacko"? What would you say that would be offensive?

BTW, I'm getting KGW just fine. My friend it is entirely possible to practice one's preferred flavor of spirituality and not be a "religious right whiner" or a "religious wacko". In fact, there's a huge difference. Even though I am not a religious person, I have perfect respect for those who are able and content to worship at their own alter of choosing. On the other hand I have absolutely zero respect for those who feel they must push their ideology on the rest of the nation. That type of behavior goes completely against the principles this country was founded on (ie, equal opportunity for all, religious choice without oppression, separation of church and state - something the pinhead in the white house needs to get through his thick, stubborn little head). Hence the distinction in my post. If you happen to be in the latter category, then so be it. I am more than happy to offend you because you offend me highly. You are dangerous to the well being of this country. Now if you are in the former category and just happened to misunderstand my post and position, no hard feelings and have a nice day :).

FWIW, I felt I owed you a response since you asked, but as this is not the place to debate these matters I will say no more on the subject. I should not have brought is up in the first place but sometimes the frustration boils over.

ron

Yet again, KPDX forgot to switch back to HD coming out of commercial about ¾'s into tonight's Enterprise. Unfortunately, a call to the Hotline was again less-than-responsive as it took several minutes for them to switch back. *shrug* Where's our automation already? :)

Anybody else having problems with KOIN or FOX this morning? I have the new HD Tivo receiver and it couldn't tune in Fox 12 this morning. Now I have it, but there is no KOIN 6! I'm hoping to see some football (in HD) today. I have the indoor Silver Sensor and haven't moved it. Everything was coming in fine last night.

Chris

I can't even get a lock on KOIN. Must be completely down.

Same here, no signal. Maybe they're preping it for the games.:p

We'll see in 5 minutes. Bob

What an awful HD week it has been in Portland. :(

KOIN is up in HD now!

All better now.

KOIN was better, for the last hour or so I've been getting a good signal just no image or sound.

Earl

Ooops, I guess not! Strong signal from KOIN but a chewed up ATSC stream. Maybe the KATU disease is spreading.

Hey, no audio on WB? But Buffy's on!

KOIN-HD is stilll down, but the singnal strength is in the 90% range!

Originally posted by ridgefamus
KOIN is up in HD now!

I hate to agree with you, but I do :) Perhaps this will be the recurring theme until the date that all broadcasters MUST start their digital broadcast and stop the analog one. In the meantime, we all have to just get used to this sort of on-again, off-again state of affairs until that fateful day.

HZ

Due to conflicts in family viewing choices, I haven't been able to check KOIN-DT recently. But I was not able to pull in a signal from them after halftime of the Pitt/Cleve game. I checked a few times while golf was supposed to be on after 1:15 and still no signal. Seems KOIN is having problems again. Hopefully, Lee Wood will make a cameo on the forum and let us all in on what is going on there and what we can expect.

Bob

KOIN is back up for Cold Case. :)

Earl

Was it? I was over at a friend's house for Arrested Development viewing, and immediately afterward I switch over to KOIN, which was coming in as 40-1, had no audio or video, but did have closed captioning! That was weird… but it came back eventually (caught the lion's share of Day of Destruction).

Originally posted by Moorebid
Yet again, KPDX forgot to switch back to HD coming out of commercial about ž's into tonight's Enterprise. Unfortunately, a call to the Hotline was again less-than-responsive as it took several minutes for them to switch back. *shrug* Where's our automation already? :) This is pretty funny. I had some friends over to watch Enterprise on Friday and things were going along smoothly. When they came out of that commercial break in SD I said to my friends, "Oh great... well, somebody will be calling them very soon I'm sure" (thinking of moorebid in the back of my mind :) ). After it went on for a couple minutes with no change I hopped up, grabbed the phone and phone book and called their news line. I quickly asked the lady who answered if she could jog whoever was in master control to flip the switch. I could tell she was a little perturbed as she said, "Yes, thanks". Almost as soon as I hung up the HD flipped back on and one of my friends said, "Wow, that was fast!". I told him that I was sure they had most likely taken a number of calls about it as evidenced by her tone. Anyway, he immediately commented about how much better the real HD was compared to the upconvert. I have to agree. Enterprise just looks outstanding in HD. That phaser hole through the bad seed "son" at the end was sweet :).

Yesterday morning was the worst time I can remember for PDX DT. I had 8-1 news on as I was reading the paper about 8:00 AM and all the sudden it went down. Flipped through the locals and everybody was down except OPB and one other I think. Made me wonder if something strange was going on with the towers perhaps. One by one throughout the morning they all slowly came back...

ron

After it went on for a couple minutes with no change I hopped up, grabbed the phone and phone book and called their news line. I quickly asked the lady who answered if she could jog whoever was in master control to flip the switch. I could tell she was a little perturbed as she said, "Yes, thanks".

I'm sure ALL the newsrooms hate us by now. :D

Earl

Anyone want to place some odds on KATU having the HD running smoothly for MNF tonight?

Originally posted by hilladen
Anyone want to place some odds on KATU having the HD running smoothly for MNF tonight? The likelihood is high, I'm afraid. I have my control (news) room phone list at the ready (I have guests coming over).

It's a bit of hindsight at this point, but I would have agreed the likelihood of HD MNF to be high, as KATU (by the few minutes I caught over at my Dad's before I left) had Harry Potter in HD on Saturday night, with no apparant ill effects. Now lets hope it stays that way for Lost.

Originally posted by JimProuty
The likelihood is high, I'm afraid. I have my control (news) room phone list at the ready (I have guests coming over). KATU & ABC came through for Monday Night Football tonight; it was terrific! (Well, on Comcast it was, my Samsung couldn't find over-the-air KATU-DT at all, probably because they turned the multi-casting back on?).

Originally posted by R11
This is pretty funny. I had some friends over to watch Enterprise on Friday and things were going along smoothly. When they came out of that commercial break in SD I said to my friends, "Oh great... well, somebody will be calling them very soon I'm sure" (thinking of moorebid in the back of my mind :) ). After it went on for a couple minutes with no change I hopped up, grabbed the phone and phone book and called their news line. I quickly asked the lady who answered if she could jog whoever was in master control to flip the switch. I could tell she was a little perturbed as she said, "Yes, thanks". Almost as soon as I hung up the HD flipped back on and one of my friends said, "Wow, that was fast!". I told him that I was sure they had most likely taken a number of calls about it as evidenced by her tone.It's amazing how quickly they've become accustomed to that. Not more than a few weeks ago, it was, "Wait, what was that again?" And now it's "Ok, thank you!" in as snooty a tone as possible. It's not that they got several calls that night, but that they get calls practically every HD night.

Anyway, he immediately commented about how much better the real HD was compared to the upconvert. I have to agree. Enterprise just looks outstanding in HD. That phaser hole through the bad seed "son" at the end was sweet :)Indeed, Enterprise has made the transition to HD video quite well. I was a bit concerned that they'd lose some of that film feel (having never seen the previous season in HD, I can't be sure that they haven't), but it still looks good to my eyes. The lights within the bridge set, I noticed especially, were particularly vibrant… piercing even, very evidently bright LED's.

Originally posted by JimProuty
KATU & ABC came through for Monday Night Football tonight; it was terrific! (Well, on Comcast it was, my Samsung couldn't find over-the-air KATU-DT at all, probably because they turned the multi-casting back on?). Not detecting any subchannel here, on a Dish 811. Just to be sure, I re-added the channel to my list, but it's still just 2-1, and I'm still getting their signal just fine (85%). KPDX is now my only problem spot… I left it trying to tune for a half hour with no luck. I know the signal's there, I know I get it relatively strong and clean, but this tuner just throws a fit anytime I try to tune to it. *shrug*

To me it looks like KATU is giving the HD stream everything, about 18.7 Mbps, with no subchannels. By coincidence, I didn't notice any pixelization during MNF.

KATU and KPDX have the highest HD bitrates in town right now. There was even a scene on Kevin Hill a few weeks ago that had a strobe light in it and the image didn't crumble into blocks after every flash like it always does on other stations.

Originally posted by Moorebid
It's amazing how quickly they've become accustomed to that. Not more than a few weeks ago, it was, "Wait, what was that again?" And now it's "Ok, thank you!" in as snooty a tone as possible. It's not that they got several calls that night, but that they get calls practically every HD night. It was the same way with all the other stations when they went HD too. Seemed like we used to have to call for practically every show three years ago.
Indeed, Enterprise has made the transition to HD video quite well. I was a bit concerned that they'd lose some of that film feel (having never seen the previous season in HD, I can't be sure that they haven't), but it still looks good to my eyes. The lights within the bridge set, I noticed especially, were particularly vibrant… piercing even, very evidently bright LED's. Shows like Enterprise and Joan of Arcadia seem to be opening some eyes of even the most ardent film people to the virtues of HD video for non-live/documentary applications. When AVS member mmost (a person who works in post production and does some of the shows on FOX) gave it a thumbs up last week (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4627271#post4627271) (at least over 16mm film anyway) I thought the sky might be falling...KATU and KPDX have the highest HD bitrates in town right now. There was even a scene on Kevin Hill a few weeks ago that had a strobe light in it and the image didn't crumble into blocks after every flash like it always does on other stations.If only we could get KOIN and KGW to see the light.... :(.

ron

Originally posted by scowl
To me it looks like KATU is giving the HD stream everything, about 18.7 Mbps, with no subchannels. By coincidence, I didn't notice any pixelization during MNF.
Now if FOX could only get their act together on football. ABC blows them away in PQ. The Seattle game was horrible this week, there were squigglies surrounding every object on the field on wide shots. Even the closeups weren't as crisp as ABC. When ABC does a closeup, I feel like I can reach up to my screen and touch the players, FOX does not give me that same affect. :(

Originally posted by R11
Shows like Enterprise and Joan of Arcadia seem to be opening some eyes of even the most ardent film people to the virtues of HD video for non-live/documentary applications. When AVS member mmost (a person who works in post production and does some of the shows on FOX) gave it a thumbs up last week (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4627271#post4627271) (at least over 16mm film anyway) I thought the sky might be falling. I read American Cinematographer (as a movie fan) and every issue has someone in it raving about HD for something or other. There was a big article about how "100 Centre Street" couldn't have been made on a cable TV series budget if it had been shot on film and how HD would soon be the only sane way to shoot a TV series. That was three or four years ago.

By the tone of these articles you'd think that HD was about to bury film at least for TV production but it hasn't happened yet. I guess things change very slowly in their industry.

Despite what they say, I think a big part of it is familiarity in their own realm. But that is a normal human trait and to be expected. Advances in the HD video gear in the last few years has now given them a lot of the capabilities they have clung to film for up to this point though.

ron

I am struggling with KATU to "lock on" to the signal. It take sometimes 5 minutes to grab on. For some reason, it shows only 49%, then the error message for no signal, wait awhile and it locks in at 89% and is great. Other channel are working ok. It really sucks because once you lock on, you can't surf and get back after the commercials. Anyone know what the problem is? I have the latest Dish HD receiver.

Fish: I just rescanned all the local DTV channels on my Zenith box and all came in very nicely, except for a momentary hiccup on 49-1. Sounds like it may be a receiver issue or antenna issue.

Bob

Originally posted by fish mojo
I am struggling with KATU to "lock on" to the signal. It take sometimes 5 minutes to grab on. For some reason, it shows only 49%, then the error message for no signal, wait awhile and it locks in at 89% and is great. Other channel are working ok. It really sucks because once you lock on, you can't surf and get back after the commercials. Anyone know what the problem is? I have the latest Dish HD receiver. That's exactly the same problem I've been seeing with KPDX off and on (not tonight, thankfully), as well as KOIN to a more limited extent. I take it you have a Dish 811 as well. There's new software (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=324564) being spooled for it this afternoon, but there aren't any fixes listed for this particular problem. *shrug*

A side note: this is the first night in awhile where no calls needed to be placed. :) KATU came through with flying colors on Lost, as did KPDX with Kevin Hill, and KOIN did just fine with the first 15 minutes of CSI: NY (with none of the audio problems I was experiencing last week) before I tuned out. Keep it up, eng's.

fish mojo-

It kind of sounds like your receiver is being swamped out and not able to deal with the multipath. Try an attenuator to lower overall signal to make multipath less bothersome to your receiver.

Lew

Lew, I don't know what an attenuator is. Is it a different type of antenna or a tuning device? Where can you get one local and how mch $$?
Thanks.

Fish: Radio Shack has them http://www.radioshack.com/search.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&find=attenuator&hp=search&image1.x=28&image1.y=34&SRC=1.

It screws into the antenna input terminal between your receiver and antenna and dampens the signal. In many cases the signal is coming in too strong and causes multipath that the receiver can't interpret. Attenuators can be fixed or variable. Try a variable for about $9 to be safe.

Originally posted by scowl
[KATU and KPDX have the highest HD bitrates in town right now. There was even a scene on Kevin Hill a few weeks ago that had a strobe light in it and the image didn't crumble into blocks after every flash like it always does on other stations.

Yes, and those from the "other stations" say the bit rates devoted to HD are suffiicent, and there is never a PQ degradation due to insufficient bandwidth.

Makes we wonder what they're looking at, or what kind of display they're looking at it on.

I wonder if, as time goes on, directors and cinematographers are going to be incented to stop using flashing light effects and other fast motion. in order to avoid the unsightly pixellation that they result in. 'will be quite a change. Can you imagine a "CSI" without strobe lights?

re: bit rates

The lack of pixelization may also be the result of the difference between 720p and 1080i.

I also can't imagine "CSI" without a flashlight in broad daylight. I'd like to have their battery supply contract. :D

Speaking of CSI, I was thinking last night while watching it (and survivor) that I wasn't seeing any of the video dropout "blinks" they've been plagued with. Even the local/network transitions seemed clean. I only remember seeing one little glitch and it looked like it was probably network related. Anybody else? Maybe Lee found a fix. If so, thanks Lee.

ron

Originally posted by BarryO
I wonder if, as time goes on, directors and cinematographers are going to be incented to stop using flashing light effects and other fast motion. in order to avoid the unsightly pixellation that they result in. As soon as I heard thunder on this week's Smallville, I did them a favor and covered my eyes. ;)

Originally posted by lewlew

The lack of pixelization may also be the result of the difference between 720p and 1080i.

True; I forgot about that. For film-based 720p, the source is still 24fps, so it encodes to a bit rate less than 1080. So which is better, the softer picture you get with 720, or the pixellation you get with 1080?

I have a Mits 62725 DLP with an integrated tuner, but the TV becomes unresponsive when I tune to KGW-HD. The picture breaks up, the TV stops responding to the remote control and the on-screen graphics (channel number, etc) always stays on the screen.

Does anyone else have any problems when tuning to KGW-HD? If so, what type of tuner are you using?

Mike

MNF sure is having audio problems tonight. (at least the picture looks good)

The Seahawks game looked really really good yesterday on KOIN. :)

I'm starting to wonder why I even try to watch MNF in HD. Week after week there are problems.

I'm starting to wonder why I even try to watch MNF in HD. Week after week there are problems.

Because when it works, it's way cool? ;)

It's working, it's working

A few minutes of jittery audio is going to keep you from watching MNF in HD?

So who called KATU first?

Hey guys im a newbie.. i have a mythtv box, and i am going to receive my HD3000 card in one week. I am now trying to get my Hardware together. I live in woodland wa, whose normal station reception SUCKS =) according to antennaweb.org i am 27.2 miles from the tower. from the faq's i have been reading this seems like a long distance, but antennaweb.org says it all yellow and one green. i am wondering about antennas, the silver sensor seems a bit small to get reliable tv, what do you think?

glad to be here..
andy

Originally posted by gr8nash
Hey guys im a newbie.. i have a mythtv box, and i am going to receive my HD3000 card in one week. I am now trying to get my Hardware together. I live in woodland wa, whose normal station reception SUCKS =) according to antennaweb.org i am 27.2 miles from the tower. from the faq's i have been reading this seems like a long distance, but antennaweb.org says it all yellow and one green. i am wondering about antennas, the silver sensor seems a bit small to get reliable tv, what do you think?

glad to be here..
andy

You'll never know until you try. I thought for the longest time that my HDTV would be good for viewing DVDs only (I live about 5 miles east and a bit south of Battle Ground). I just bought one of those cheap (relatively) USDTV tuners at WalMart and I couldn't be happier. Previously, I got two analog channels clearly and about five more with very snowy reception. With the USDTV tuner, I get all OTA digital channels clearly, although for some reason KGW's signal isn't very strong. Fortunately, NBC is no longer must see TV.

Why would Tuesday nights be so much more problematic than any other night (that I watch, those being Wednesday and Friday) with KPDX? Every night I've tried to watch [/i]Veronica Mars[/i] for the past month (give or take), I've been unable to receive a reliable signal, varying from in-and-out every few seconds-to-a minute (more out than in, when I can successfully tune it) to a complete absense of signal. By contrast, I've only missed one episode of Enterprise Friday nights due to signal issues, and haven't skipped a beat on Kevin Hill Wednesday nights.

Tonight, it's been a complete mix of ups and downs, peaking around 75-76%, staying steady for some measure of time, then completely disappearing for an even longer period of time… but at least I haven't had any trouble locking what signal there is… any other night, I'll get 80% signal, but 9 times out of 10 it won't tune. *shrug* Comcast, get your act together and put this channel up, will you please? I wish to be done with OTA.

Are there any special bus routes by your house on Tuesday nights?

Originally posted by gr8nash
Hey guys im a newbie.. i have a mythtv box, and i am going to receive my HD3000 card in one week. I'm using the HD2000 right now (not with Myth though). I think the HD3000 has better sensitivity and multipath rejection so you'll probably have an easier time than I did. There are two tricks. First is getting an antenna that's directional enough to pull in the stations but not so directional that it won't pick up stations it's not pointed directly at. Since you're pretty far away and all the major towers are clustered together, this probably won't be a problem. In my case I'm so close to them that some towers come in slightly different directions.

If stations are still too weak and moving the antenna doesn't help then you can try getting a larger, uglier and more expensive antenna or you can try adding an amplifier. You have to get one that's not so strong that signals overload the receiver or pick up multipath reflections. If this happens, the HD3000 will report the signals are weaker because it's getting more errors.

Plan on lots of experimentation. Assume that whatever antennas and amplifiers you buy are going to be returned for something else. It's all a matter of finding the right combination of everything. Keep in mind that you'll be receiving almost 2 megabytes per second out of the air from stations 27 miles away -- that can't be a trivial thing. It's like someone throwing a full floppy disk at you every second. Don't forget that stations have spent millions of dollars on new equipment so viewers like you can get HDTV for free.

Originally posted by Moorebid
Every night I've tried to watch [/i]Veronica Mars[/i] for the past month (give or take), I've been unable to receive a reliable signal, varying from in-and-out every few seconds-to-a minute (more out than in, when I can successfully tune it) to a complete absense of signal. That sucks because this week's Veronica Mars is the best episode I've seen so far. The dialog and acting have improved so much. Even the voice overs don't annoy me any more. They managed to fit three interesting subplots into one episode.

Do you get reliable signals from KGW and KPTV? I receive these three stations so well I don't even see low-level checksum errors.

Trying to watch L&O on KGW and I'm having some real signal problems I've never had before, it's bouncing between 20% and 95% where as it's usually really stable for me.

Earl

Originally posted by hilladen
Are there any special bus routes by your house on Tuesday nights? None to my knowledge… and besides, I shouldn't be affected the entire night if that were the case.

Originally posted by scowl
That sucks because this week's Veronica Mars is the best episode I've seen so far. The dialog and acting have improved so much. Even the voice overs don't annoy me any more. They managed to fit three interesting subplots into one episode.Yeah, I noticed that, especially in the pilot, how they seemed to shoehorn the voiceover into space for which they didn't seem to have enough coverage… or maybe it had to be edited down to run in the time alloted. But I've thought the writing and acting have been consistently excellent throughout the series thus far, as have the production values. This show truly is a gem.

Do you get reliable signals from KGW and KPTV? I receive these three stations so well I don't even see low-level checksum errors. For the first couple/few weeks after PAX went online, I was having all sorts of problems all across the board, just different channels on different nights. Then, two weeks ago, everything seemed to correct itself, with the exception of KPDX… it's the oddest of the bunch, when I do have a reliable signal (~80%), most often I can't tune it with my Dish 811… but when the signal's fluctuating, I seem to have no trouble tuning it… when I have enough signal, that is. I tried a variable attenuator this afternoon, but that only made things worse, across all the channels. I'd try an amp, but I'm not up to spending $30+ to fix this, especially with cable on the way.

But yeah, KPTV, KOIN, KOPB and KPXG are my strongest signals (~90%), KATU and KGW second (~85%, though KGW was a bit low that evening as well, closer to upper 70's), and KWBP around 65% at my weakest.

After a very annoying bright white logo during the Fox movie last night, so far up to the first break of Mr. Deeds, no logo, I hope this continues.

Way to go Fox, great picture and sound.

I spoke too soon, as soon as I posted this, the HD feed got screwed up, it's been SD since the first break.

It is just me or is KOIN having problems? Half their audio packets are garbage and my decoder can't find a parsable PMT (I can specifiy the stream PID's manually).

Originally posted by scowl
It is just me or is KOIN having problems? Half their audio packets are garbage and my decoder can't find a parsable PMT (I can specifiy the stream PID's manually). And now KOIN is just plain down (I called the news department which took a while to tumble to the fact that I was calling to tell them their OTA HD signal was down). I wish we had a direct-to-control room number. I think we'd all use it responsibly.

Here is the Master Control phone number for KATU-TV.: 503-231-4217.:)

Perhaps we need Lee Wood's home phone number :)

I came here after my HD TiVo could not get a signal but my HiPix pc card looked ok (but did not check the sound.)

I think it's about time to see Kelley Day in HD, afterall Seattle has had HD local news for a couple of years now.
So Lee, do you have a timetable when KOIN will be moving to HD local news? :D

Earl

Originally posted by earletp
I think it's about time to see Kelley Day in HD, afterall Seattle has had HD local news for a couple of years now.
So Lee, do you have a timetable when KOIN will be moving to HD local news? :D

Earl
Earl, I'll second that, I sure missed Kelly while she was over at Fox. Lee posted quite awhile ago that it would be a loooooooooooooong time before they had HD in the studio.

Originally posted by Larry Hutchinson
I came here after my HD TiVo could not get a signal but my HiPix pc card looked ok (but did not check the sound.) I think it's a matter of how ATSC decoders handle a missing or corrupt PAT. On Linux, xine refused to do anything with what KOIN was sending but mplayer is sneaky enough to ignore the PAT and use whatever video and audio streams it finds even if they aren't the ones I want or even if they aren't from the same subchannel. I noticed this once when CBS aired different commercials on the SD and HD feeds and the audio didn't match.

[edited to change PMT to PAT. I keep getting those mixed up!]

gr8nash & scowl,

Welcome Andy. You have been given mostly good solid advice by scowl about antennas here but let me throw in my $.02 worth. Just so you know, I am one of the "professional engineers" here on the forum (that means I get paid to play with this stuff). I am the Chief Engineer at KWBP. Our analog channel 32 site is about 40 miles from our DTV site and I have experimented up there with antennas and receivers. I can tell you absolutely that a silver sensor works great at 40 miles as long as you have a clear line of site.

For about a year, that is what I had at that site and it was just lashed to a flimsy mount on the side of the building. It actually worked perfectly sitting on the ground even when pointed as far as 80 degrees in the wrong direction or sitting on the hood of our snowcat sitting in the garage up there. However, I wanted a better antenna that would be good even in heavy ice conditions because that site is at 4400' up in the Cascades and gets lots of snow and ice. With that in mind, I installed an expensive Scala antenna (http://www.kathrein-scala.com/catalog/CL-1469B.pdf) about $400 from the friendly folks in Medford where they are manufactured (genuine made in Oregon). The Scala antenna did not improve the signal quality for me but I know that if it ices up, it will still work fine. That was important because I now have the ability to remotely switch our analog transmitter over to video and audio coming from the DTV receiver in case our microwave system fails. Broadcaster engineers believe in redundancy. Broadcaster engineers believe in redundancy. :D

I hope you now understand that the antenna you use is not as critical as having a clear path from the transmitter sites to the antenna. You may also have to experiment with an attenuator pad as mentioned in several posts as I have found that in most cases, 6 or 10 dB will reduce the error rate in the decoder no matter how strong or weak the signal is. The "signal strength" meter is actually an indication of errors so it indicates overall decoder performance. Things like "leaf fade" where the wind blows the trees around will also have detrimental effects on received signals especially if the trees are wet.

Good luck with your signal reception and enjoy HD viewing.

Pat

Another tip. The HD-3000 has a red light which blinks when it's received a bad packet. Some have found that this light is a better way to judge the quality of the signal than the value reported by the dtvsignal command. You could also run the dtvstream command to /dev/null and see how often it reports bad ATSC packets. The goal is to get as few bad packets as possible regardless of how strong dtvsignal says the signal is.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the silver sensor also worked quite well at 40 miles to pick up KNMT-DT on channel 45. They are operating under a temporary authority and only putting out about 1,500 watts whereas we are putting out 750,000 watts. One of the other engineers at our station experimented with a silver sensor with quite good results at his home out by Dallas. So you see, as long as you have clear line of site, it doesn't take much of an antenna to effectively receive a DTV signal.

Pat

Pat, can you confirm, as was reported in another thread, that the WB has suspended all DD5.1 until further notice?

Marissadad, I musta scared Lee off. :)

Earl

Pat, do you have any idea why I only get a 74 or so signal strength while all other Portland channels come in the high 90's? I am in Woodburn so I have no obstructions and am using the biggest UHF/VHF that Radio Shack sells. With the signal that low, my Voom box breaks up constantly but my Dish 6000 locks it solid. It's frustrating since if I have my 6000 tied up with a recording, I can't tune in WB. I get the same signal strength reading on 3 different stb's, 2 Voom & the Dish 6000 & both Voom boxes break up constantly.

Thanks.

Let's hope Lee is still lurking because "Mission control, we have a problem". Anybody else getting the much heavier/frequent audio dropouts on 6-1? After a period where they had all but disappeared, they now seem to be back with a vengeance. While watching CSI-NY last night they have gotten to the point where I was missing key dialog here and there. Seem to be getting worse and worse over the last week or two... :(.

ron

Originally posted by R11
Let's hope Lee is still lurking because "Mission control, we have a problem". Anybody else getting the much heavier/frequent audio dropouts on 6-1? After a period where they had all but disappeared, they now seem to be back with a vengeance. While watching CSI-NY last night they have gotten to the point where I was missing key dialog here and there. Seem to be getting worse and worse over the last week or two... :(.

ron

You are not alone...

Earl

Is this the problem where KOIN's audio clicks off for a fraction of a second every minute or two?

Yes, that would be it alright. It's getting to the point where I think I may have to fire up the closed captioning soon ;).

ron

I watched NCIS the other night and there was only 3 or 4 of those brief audio dropouts for me, not nearly as bad as it has been in the past. I recorded CSI: NY last night, I'll see how it did later today.

I tried counting the audio drops on CSI:LV tonight, there were so many I not only lost count but kept losing my place in the show so I stopped. :)
There were bunches though...

Earl

I watched ET and Extra while I was on the treadmill and then Survivor after I was done running (skipped CSI since I had already seen it), and during that time it actually seemed quite a bit better than it was Wednesday for CSI-NY. Still quite a few though...

ron

Originally posted by Marissadad
I watched NCIS the other night and there was only 3 or 4 of those brief audio dropouts for me, not nearly as bad as it has been in the past. I recorded CSI: NY last night, I'll see how it did later today.

I noticed it a number of times during the football telecast on Thanksgiving. It seemed to happen most right as the announcers started talking after a silent period. I thought it was weird but since only about 3% of what football announcers have to say is worth listening to anyway...

Even at that low rate it would really bother me on a show like CSI. I'd be screaming bloody murder if one of the stations I like to watch regularly were operating like that. Do they have a clue what may be causing it? No one else seems to have the same problem.

I rarely watch live tv. KOIN's audio dropout problems show up on my 3410a as micro-second hesitations. It's more like someone chopped a number of frames out of the film and spliced it back together. The odd thing is the length of recording usually show 54 or 55 minutes on a KOIN one hour program. All the other stations show 60-61 minutes.

Some day I'll have to play a CSI episode without any interuptions and see if it is only 55 minutes.

I wonder if this is one of those compression schemes to get more commercial time?

Lew

I finally got around to watching CSI: NY tonight and it was plagued with dropouts. I always go through the recording and cut the commercials and end up with 42 minutes of show, I don't think they are doing any frame dropping, it's only the audio that blips.

Fox NFL is on now and it is beautiful. Does any one know if it is 1080i or 720p.

Thanks.

Fox is 720p. Brilliant sunshine in Chicago makes the picture equally brilliant. Their 5.1 sound is great, too!

Bob

neihn, titantv.com will usually have the resolution info for you if you wish to check it out. Also, FOX seems to have started broadcasting the NFL in HD last but they are doing a much better job of it then CBS!

We should be able to do a good A/B comparison this afternoon. Broncos/Chargers on KOIN and Eagles/Packers on KPTV at 1:00.

I did this last night with USC/UCLA on KATU (720p) and Tenn./Auburn on KOIN (1080i). Since my Sony is 1080i native and the 720p broadcasts convert to 1080i, I need to temper my enthusiasm for CBS' productions over ESPN, ABC and Fox who all do 720p. We still need to get KOIN the equipment for DD 5.1 to better level the audio playing field!

On no, it looks like KOIN's chewed up ATSC stream is back. The video is OK but the audio stream has a packet error at least every second, sometimes several per second.

I'm not getting any audio breakups on KOIN. Maybe it's fixed by now?

I am new to HD TV and this forum. I admit I am a Comcast user but want a HD antenna for reception of local stations, primarily UPN por Enterprise!! I am in Lake Oswego above the South side of the Lake. I am considering a ZENITH ZHDTV1 HDTV INDOOR ANTENNA. It is not a big investment but I am wondering whether I am wasting my time. There are a number of those annoying (LOL) large Douglas Fir in this area. Can anybody advise or should I just plunk down the $30 and go for it!

It got fixed at some point.

A heads-up for anyone interested... A Concert for George is on PBS tonight in HD.

mismatched, the only way you'll know for sure is to try it. That's the same antenna as a Silver Sensor and several people have had good luck with them. Just get it from Sears or Best Buy, for example, so if it doesn't work for you, you can always return it.
If you go to http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx it will give you the direction to the towers and that makes aiming much easier.

Earl

Earl

Thanks. good idea. pay a few bucks more than say Ebay but no problemo with return. where more or less are you located.

Mike

I'm in SE Portland.
Here's a recent post by Pat Shearer the Chief Engineer at KWBP where he talks about using the Silver Sensor and getting a good signal on it from 40 miles away.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4731705#post4731705

If you do a search on this thread you'll find even more information about what has worked or not worked, as the case may be, for different areas.

Earl

(edited for a misplaced comma)

Originally posted by earletp
A heads-up for anyone interested... A Concert for George is on PBS tonight in HD.
Earl

Doesn't look much like HD to me. Lied to again... :o

Earl

I checked the post you mention Earl. I don't have line of sight as far as I know. So the antenna seems problematical at best.

PS Amazon has a Gemini ZHDTV1 antenna that looks just like a Silver Sensor. Their return policy and price with Shipping seems reasonable. Guess that I will give it a try...

mismatched,

I am not to far from you and I am surrounded by Douglas Firs as well. I found that to be a big problem until I started using an attenuator. earletp recommended one for me from radio shack that is adjustable and that really put an end to my problems. His post where he recommended is probably about ten or so pages back if you wish to search for it. Though I am sure he will give the model # since he seems to be very helpful.

If you find you do need an attenuator (it can help with multipath problems) this is the one that was referenced.

Radio Shack 15-678 variable attenuator (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?MSCSProfile=745D84CBF04D14A48AA6FF9C89D722C0BA68 C1B04FE384678A5285FCD6E056B17AF21627FDABE316B90B3C038D68EBD6 B7F9F3BD1712EAA9951ACB2590A05C6517EFE46941FEFDD1985D4EFD6321 F5E70B4DE9B6C1D45512DCD9FB3DBCACB94760F310A1F4CF7E05FA21730D 2A831B867FF95BDA03BADA5547268E7894AF113997EA93E6799EEC87&cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-678)

(just click the link above for the web page)

How do you know if your signal is too strong and need an attenuator ?

Originally posted by hilladen
neihn, titantv.com will usually have the resolution info for you if you wish to check it out. Also, FOX seems to have started broadcasting the NFL in HD last but they are doing a much better job of it then CBS! Hmmm, I put FOX dead last of the NFL HD in terms of PQ anyway. They have a nice picture and the close ups look pretty good, but all of their long/wide shots just lack detail. I watched the end of the ESPN game last night and it even looked better to me. I put CBS at the top.

ron

Originally posted by flapbreaker
How do you know if your signal is too strong and need an attenuator ?

I asked that same question about a year ago. :)

The answer seems to be trial and error. If you're experiencing multipath problems, signal meter bouncing around, having trouble locking on, that kind of thing, then it's an $8.00 fix that may help.

It's my understanding that most of the tuners are relatively sensitive so in an area where the signal can bounce around your receiver may be trying to lock onto a reflected signal rather than the main signal and it gets confused. By attenuating the signal it further drops the strength of the reflected signals allowing your box to lock onto the main signal easier.

Earl

One hint that you need an attenuator is getting a very strong signal but still regularly seeing glitches and severe pixelization. Someday ATSC receivers will be smart enough to attenuate the signal themselves. Someday.

CBS does have a nice picture during their NFL-HD broadcast but it seems that it is for relativley few games and KOIN has been having a lot of issues with their broadcasts. FOX may have a slightly poorer PQ but at least all their game are in HD and they KPTV is not having issues why they are broadcasting. ESPN does look real nice and they are consitent.

Hilladen, I'll have to grant you that. FOX is doing a good job and is definitely pumping them out alright. And KOIN does have their ongoing transmission difficulties (not network issues though). But like I said before, the FOX games always look nice, but there's just something underwhelming about them to me. They just don't have that extra bit of clarity or depth that gives the CBS games the pop and makes them exceptional to my eyes. At least on my set anyway.

ron

R11, I agree with you there. It just seems that CBS is still having that idea that HD is something that is special and only is used here and there why FOX is adopting it completely. Couple that with the transmission problems and FOX-KPTV is bringing the people their HD!

fwiw:

Planar is having a 1-day sale 12/10 friday at their Compton DR facility. It will be open to the public. Sale on lcds and plasmas.

I posted this in the flat panel forum and the local comcast thread for us locals

Anyone know what's up with KATU? I could not pull it in on Voom or Dish this morning, my Dish signal meter shows 0%.

I don't know if it's come back since you posted, but I'm getting it on my 3100A.

Originally posted by Marissadad
Anyone know what's up with KATU? I could not pull it in on Voom or Dish this morning, my Dish signal meter shows 0%. There was a power failure at the Sylvan transmitter site for about an hour this morning. Only KOIN's analog and digital have a backup generator at this time.

There seem to be quite a few football fans here. Anyone know what network has the superbowl this year? Just wondering.

Craig

Only KOIN's analog and digital have a backup generator at this time. You need to chide your compatriots, Lee. :)

Craig, the Superbowl's on FOX this year.

Thanks earletp!

Hi, I'm new to this thread. I just switched from Comcast to DirecTV and am planning on receiving local HD OTA. I live in Mt Park (Just at PCC) and can see the SW hills antennas (through a few trees) light up at night. I thought I would be able to receive most if not all the local channels without a real antenna but that was a bad assumption. I tried an old UHF loop antenna and got almost nothing. I did receive almost all the channels using a 6 foot coax with my finger on the end of it...

Can anyone give some advice on outdoor (attic mounted) antennas and if I will need an amp between the antenna and my OTA receiver (I will need to run about 100 feet of RG6)? I looked at the Terk 32 but that seems like a lot of antenna (and cost) for such a short distance (almost line of sight) from the towers. Who makes the best value antenna for my needs and where can I get one locally?
Thanks in advance,
Greg

glz: You are probably as close to the towers as I am on Bull Mt. I can get all the locals with my Silver Sensor indoor antenna quite reliably. I have a few trees and a neighbor's house to "see" through but that doesn't seem to be a problem, except when the trees are fully leafed out and the wind blows, but that has been pretty rare to be a total impedence. Since I am so close I needed to put a 10dB attenuator (Radio Shack) on the line to dampen the signal and prevent multipathing breakups. You certainly shouldn't need an amp. So I suggest trying the SS. Got mine 1 1/2 yrs ago at Best Buy. Wherever you get it be sure the return policy will allow you to take it back if it doesn't work out. Good luck!

Bob

Thanks Bob,
I've been reading through this thread to try to learn more about my issue. Im not sure if I'm getting reflections or too much signal here. My signal meter does bounce up and down a bit and it seems just walking around in the room makes a big difference in what i get. I have a number of close trees between me and the towers but I can see the tower lights through the trees or when i drive down my street (I can also see the council crest towers). I checked on antenna web (http://www.antennaweb.org). I'm only 6 miles away and all the antennas are within 5 degrees of each other so this should be a no brainer. I will try an indoor antenna to see what I see. The one thing I'm concerned about using an indoor antennas is the picture changing as people or items move about the room. With analog TV this can be very upsetting as it seems every little change makes some change to the picture and/or sound. With Digital TV I would expect to see little change till the picture and sound just stops .

I wonder if anyone has experience with the outdoor antenna that clips over the back of the DirecTV dish? Does it require it's own wire back to the receiver or is there an adapter that allows the use of one wire from the dish down to the receiver. This would be ideal for me as the back side of the dish is facing the local antennas almost perfectly aligned.

I wonder if anyone has experience with the outdoor antenna that clips over the back of the DirecTV dish?Yes. They are a waste of time :). Try the silver sensor first and if that doesn't work just try a regular small outdoor antenna. That is what I have in my attic and it works just fine (through the roof and a large, dense clump of big cedar trees right behind the house, directly in line with the towers).

ron

OPB Alert!! If you guys have ever seen this show, it's awesome:

December 14, 2004

8:00 PM CHIHULY OVER VENICE -
( CC STEREO HD )

and:

December 16, 2004

9:00 PM CHIHULY OVER VENICE -
( CC STEREO HD )

There is a ton of HD stuff for Christmas coming up in the next 2 weeks, this one is not listed as HD but might be worth a look:

December 24, 2004

10:00 PM YULE LOG 2002 -
Seasonal music with the crackling fireplace at Timberline
Lodge as a background.

Ok, I went to Best Buy but they no-longer stock the Silver Sensor so I purchased the Terk S 22. Worthless, I got better reception with just a wire in the air. The interesting thing is it seems like I'm not getting an input overload even though I'm very close. With the Terk S 22 the signal strength was consistently low. As I turned it towards the towers the strength increased but was not bouncing and seemed as if it just was not receiving very much signal. As I turn away from the towers the signal dropped off quickly and stayed very low till I reached 180 degrees off from the towers. So my next try is an outdoor antenna. Tonight I took a better look at my situation. From the street I need see the towers lights at night. From my house I have a wall of Douglas firs and about 6 houses in line with the towers. Antenna web says I'm in the "red" antenna catagory. I can go higher but even then will be shooting through the trees and one house. I'd like to get this resolved quickly. Any ideas on a suitable outdoor antenna for my needs?

Originally posted by glz
... I'd like to get this resolved quickly. Any ideas on a suitable outdoor antenna for my needs?

I don't mean to throw water on your fire but my own experience and those of others who post here would indicate that antenna reception problems are not usually quickly resolved. Some are never cured. There used to be an antenna forum discussion of its own but I think it was merged into the HDTV Hardware discussions here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=25

I think most success stories have come from Channel Master antennas. Search on that name. Antenna web knows directions and distances but they don't have a clue about the geography in between. Good luck!

Bob

Originally posted by glz
Ok, I went to Best Buy but they no-longer stock the Silver Sensor so I purchased the Terk S 22. Worthless, I got better reception with just a wire in the air.

I'm in Vancouver (the Orchards area) and get all the major networks with a Silver Sensor. I picked mine up at Good Guys on Airport Way. Good Luck!

Did anyone notice "The West Wing" on Wednesday? The pic was 16:9, but the look was grainy, almost looked SD.

The West Wing seems to always be a little bit grainy (except the one episode) as do many shows. I believe it has to do with the cameras etc that they use. Going for more of the "cinematography" look instead of the crisp clean pictures like CBS HD football. ;)

West Wing has always been shot through heavy filters that throw away a lot of resolution. They also use lots of low-key lighting which makes grain stand out. On top of that, they're shooting in 16mm this season. This show is not for impressing your friends with your new HDTV.

Originally posted by gaubster2
I'm in Vancouver (the Orchards area) and get all the major networks with a Silver Sensor. I picked mine up at Good Guys on Airport Way. Good Luck!
Thanks gaubster2,
I went to the Washington Square Good Guys today and picked up the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna. OMG what a difference. Every digital channel come in strong without even finding the sweet spot. I don't know what it is about this product but it's FM.

Thank you to everyone on the forum for all the help and advice. I'm very happy with this product and my reception problems are completely resolved...

Did anyone else lose the KPTV-DT channel mapping? I noticed it today in the early evening.

HZ

I'm new to this arena and am looking for some advice or reviews. I'd like to receive HDTV OTA and would like some recommendations on tuners. I'm on the back side of Cooper Mountain and receive SD signals with exceptional clarity which leads me to believe that the signal strength is very good in my neighborhood.

Originally posted by afd10529
I'm new to this arena and am looking for some advice or reviews. I'd like to receive HDTV OTA and would like some recommendations on tuners. I'm on the back side of Cooper Mountain and receive SD signals with exceptional clarity which leads me to believe that the signal strength is very good in my neighborhood.

Hi, and welcome to the area.
I have an LG LST-3100a and have been using it for about a year with very good luck. Their new model, the LST-4200a is also getting great reviews. There's a lot of information about them in the HDTV Hardware forum here. I couldn't find anyone local that carried them though, so I had to get mine through the internet from one of the forum sponsers.
Best Buy does carry the LST-3510a which is the same tuner as my 3100a with an upconverting DVD player built in.

If you look through this thread you'll find the Samsung boxes get pretty mixed reviews in this area.

Good luck and hopefully I've given you a place to start your research.

Earl

KPTV's signal went thunk just before the Seahawks game started. Comcast is OK however.

KATU and KOPB and KPXG are down too

Sounds like a power failure probably due to the wind.

At least KOIN has a backup generator so we'll be able to see CBS' late game in HD. :)

And KPTV is back. The Seahawks aren't apparently.

LOL, when they're playing good they're great, trouble is that's only about 40% of the time. heh!!

Thanks Earl. Your recommendation is appreciated.

KATU, KOIN, KPTV, and KPXG are gone again.
Maybe they need to switch from the duct tape to 100mph NASCAR tape...

Originally posted by earletp
At least KOIN has a backup generator so we'll be able to see CBS' late game in HD. :) Yep, I got nothing from KOIN right now. Same with KATU, and KPTV was down for a while but is back.

OK, KOIN is back but there's still a little junk in their signal.

Another question from a neophite. I've got a 10 year old Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna up in my attic that works wonderfully with SD. I've been told by an electronics salesman that I'll need an HD antenna to pick up HD OTA. Can anyone comment on the need for a new antenna?

Originally posted by afd10529
Another question from a neophite. I've got a 10 year old Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna up in my attic that works wonderfully with SD. I've been told by an electronics salesman that I'll need an HD antenna to pick up HD OTA. Can anyone comment on the need for a new antenna?
Thats just not true. ALL the HD OTA channels in the Portland area are good old UHF transmissions. ANY standard UHF antenna does the trick. Claims of a "HD" antenna are about as false as years ago when they advertised "Color" Antennas. Go check for yourself at Antenna WEB (http://www.antennaweb.org).

Originally posted by afd10529
I've been told by an electronics salesman that I'll need an HD antenna to pick up HD OTA. Can anyone comment on the need for a new antenna?
Some bonehead "salesman" at Best Buy tried feeding me that line of crap about 2 years ago, this after I'd been receiving HD OTA for 2 years already. He just wouldn't believe me that a plain old Rat Shack antenna could pull in HD. :D

I read somewhere that the reason people like this are working at Best Buy is because they burned the burgers at McDonalds..........

Wow, a electronics salesman who knew you could pick HD broadcasts OTA without cable or a six foot satellite dish? The word is slowly getting out.

I don't have an "HD antenna" and I am able to receive HD signals just fine.

Hey everybody, this morning I got this email reminder I had set a week or two ago:

Great Performances: Eric Clapton: Crossroads Guitar Festival
Monday, December 13, 2004, 9:00 PM
KOPB-DT

Here's a link with details on the show (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/shows/guitargods/index.html). There was a thread in the HD Programming forum about it a while back and it looks to be seriously sweet if you like blues/rock guitar like I do. If all goes well it should be 2 1/2 hours of hot HD (fingers crossed).

ron

Hmmm, that doesn't appear on my emailed list of DTV programming from OPB rec'd 12/9/04. Instead they say:

December 13, 2004

8:00 PM FACE: JESUS IN ART -
For centuries, the most influential artists painted
portraits and sculpted monumental images of Jesus Christ,
whose powerful and timeless image has had an immeasurable
influence on global art and culture. Narrated by actor
Edward Herrmann, THE FACE: JESUS IN ART traces the use of
Jesus' image in art over a 2000-year period, from ancient
Rome and 20th-century America to Europe and the Middle East.
( STEREO HD )

9:00 PM NATURE - HORSE AND RIDER
( CC STEREO )

10:00 PM SECRETS OF THE PHARAOHS - LOST CITY OF THE PYRAMIDS
( CC STEREO )

But I'll be happy if it's true!

Bob

Thanks R11,
This should be the kick in the pants I need to get outside and mount my antenna for better reception. I discovered yesterday the indoor Silver Sensor works well but as soon as people start moving around the room I lose a few channels (everything but KOIN). I have a wire almost fished to the roof. I guess i now have a reason to get out in the cold and finish the job... I wonder if I put the silver sensor outside if that's enough or if I need to buy a real outdoor antenna...