Anyone watch the steelers game in HD without major video/audio corruption?? Most of the time my signals are anywhere from 75-83% but it seems like every so often when I record some HD I'll get some shows that are un-watchable due to video corruption. I'm guessing that during that time my signal strenght must be dropping but since I rarely watch live tv anymore (HDTivo) I don't find out about it until it's too late. Just wondering if it was on my end or the network?

Originally posted by hilladen
Don't they need the SD to comply with the whole mandated OTA digital channel stuff? Most stations in town (KPTV, KWBP, KATU, KPDX) don't have any subchannels at all. If KOIN's subchannel was being used, I don't see how they could switch it on and off like this.

Lee has posted here many times that the reason for the sub channel is for people who can't stretch the screen with an HD signal. I say bunk to that, they can always feed their TV an S-Video signal and get a better image than what the sub channel will give them.

Originally posted by Marissadad
I tuned it late to the skating and noticed that the ABC logo for HD was just visible to the right of the 4:3 image. I was wondering what happened, I have my daughter this weekend and we were going to watch it, major dissappointment.

Ron, now I know what you mean about KOIN's surround sound. I finally caught CSI: Miami last night live and it sounded like the same thing was coming from all 5 speakers, but softer from the surrounds and center so it sounded like the Mains were the predominant vocal speakers. Yep, the upconverted skating was a real downer alright. Figures, just when you think you'll see some HD originated from PDX, you don't... :( IIRC, the only local HD I've seen was a couple Blazer games on KGW about three years ago before Paul Allens' ASCN went down the tubes.

I'm glad to hear that you've heard the all channel audio from KOIN too. Well, not glad for you I mean, but at least I know it's not just me anyway. With that strange phase problem on their local feed coming and going, at least before I could count on their HD network feed to be alright (aside from all the pixelation from the subchannel), but now with the HD audio prob none of their programming is worth watching. I hate to admit it but after all these years the multitude of issues are beginning to wear me down. The oh-so-soft 720p from KPTV is actually starting to look pretty good. At least it's always there, pixelation free and has good audio. Geeze, I can't believe I'm really saying that. What has it come to?

ron

I thought CBS's playoff game was outstanding! When I saw the snow flying I thought the pq just wouldn't be as good, but it was amazing. I can honestly say that you couldn't have paid me to sit in the stands for that game given the option to view it in HD from a couch!

Craig

Forgot to mention...I agree with you all about the skating. That was a big dissapointment. My wife and I ventured to the Rose Garden Saturday for the women's final. Pretty amazing to see this in person! Driving home on I-5 was quite an adventure.....It looked like the road to Bahgdad after the first gulf war......We arrived home to find the broadcast in SD, and it just doesn't do justice to the event.

Craig

I need an antenna. Just got the new DVR HD receiver from Direct TV and my current OTA antenna can't pull down any local HD stations. I need an indoor antenna that will work.
I'm actually in Gresham, pretty close to Boring. Can you recomend a good antenna?

Get the Silver Sensor from the good guys... It's the #1 indoor antenna

I second that, the Silver Sensor picks everything up here in Tualatin

Radio Shack there on Martinazzi and Tualatin-Sherwood should have the Silver Sensor, shouldn't they?

Speaking of Silver Sensor - I am wayyy out in the country, in NW hilly area, using Silver Sensor with Channel master 7775 and getting very good reception despite distance, trees, etc. Only exception is ABC which is prone to periodic dropouts (especially with people moving around in the house). Is ABC lower power or something else funky vs the others? Anyone eles see worse performance of ABC vs the others. Thanks in advance, Roy

they didn't this week. the only two places in town that have them right now is Sears at Clackamas and Good guys at Airport way, everyone else is sold out.

Speaking of dropouts, you all might be happy to know that NY City's NBC-HD, whcih I get through DTV, has a drop out for a few minutes tonight. So Portland isn't the only city to have HD issues.

Did anyone else lose signal briefly on CBS during the playoff games?

It happened here several times during each game. Just a couple of seconds each time and then it came right back up.

I've never seen this on any of the other channels. My set registers at least as good signal strength from KOIN as from the rest.

I went to antennaweb to see what antenna they recommend, the colors came up red(medium range), blue(medium range, pre-amp), Voilet(long range, pre-amp).
You still think the Silver sensor would work? I'm about 18 miles away from the towers.

Originally posted by archer75

You still think the Silver sensor would work? I'm about 18 miles away from the towers.

Line of sight appears to be the key. One of the station techs who posts here said he was using a Silver Sensor to reliably pick up a signal from 40 miles away.

Well I picked up the Silver Sensor and it does'nt work very well. On my Direct TV HD DVR it gets a signal strength of about 13. My other cheapo radio shack antennas got just a tad bit higher. But none work anywhere near well enough to receive OTA HD broadcasts. Do you think some sort of a line booster would help at all?

Where are you at archer75?

Gresham, off 282nd, near Boring.

Originally posted by doretta
Did anyone else lose signal briefly on CBS during the playoff games?

Yes, I did both Sat. & Sun. The interruptions were brief - about 15 seconds each - blank screen followed by "Lost Signal" then back up again full strength. It happened almost at the rate of one per half hour. It made no sense to me that there was something between me and the towers causing it since each outage was predictably identical in duration. I wrote it off as maybe something to do with whatever module Lee had to borrow from the Blazers, knowing how unpredictable they can be. ;) Come to think of it, the Blazers are predictable.

Was this similar to your experience? I don't think I've watched KOIN again since, except for about 15 minutes of Miami CSI last night. That wouldn't have been long enough to see the signal loss, perhaps.

Bob

I am not surprised you aren't having great luck in Boring. I do know that channel 2 is at half the power as the other stations in town for their HD. I am not sure where I saw that, maybe antennaweb.org

Well this site answers my question:

http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/or/tv_information.asp?m=por

KATU is 500kw. Only OPB is lower, although that has less issues for me.

By the way, Silver sensor can be bought through Amazon (under Gemini name) for $22.
Roy

So now what antenna should I get? Would the DB-4 work well or would that be overkill?

I knew I saw that somewhere, so KATU is at 500 and some of the others are at 1000. I use the Silver Sensor and thankfully I get great reception. By the way, how do you check signal strength for OTa channels on the HD Tivo

Originally posted by Robert Spalding
I knew I saw that somewhere, so KATU is at 500 and some of the others are at 1000. I use the Silver Sensor and thankfully I get great reception. By the way, how do you check signal strength for OTa channels on the HD Tivo

It's under the direct tv menu, under settings there is a section for OTA signal strength.

Originally posted by Robert Spalding
I do know that channel 2 is at half the power as the other stations in town for their HD. I am not sure where I saw that, maybe antennaweb.org Or maybe the first post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1332206#post1332206) of this thread… :)

Or maybe the first post of this thread…


ha, probably. ;-)

Anyone else having problems with Fox this evening? I couldn't pull them in (with a Silver Sensor here off of 164th in Vancouver) at all this weekend and couldn't see the playoff games in HD. Last night American Idol on FOX was pretty amazing in HD (made it watchable) for my wife and me. I'm getting absolutely nothing tonight. (I'm also having major pixelation probs with PBS)

Looks like the wife will have to watch A. Idol in standard def. <shrug>

Hopefully LOST stays problem free.

Chris

(w/ a HD TIVO!)

KPTV (FOX) is strong and steady as it usually is where I am.

Originally posted by scowl
KPTV (FOX) is strong and steady as it usually is where I am.


Hmm. I may have to consider getting a rooftop antenna in time for the Super Bowl, then. (Just in case!)

So if the Silver sensor won't work at all for me(see posts above) do you think a huge honking roof antenna would? I would either mount it in the attic or put it in an empty spare room facing the direction of the towers.

Anyone picking up HD in the Portland area around Terwilliger and Barbur? Tried and indoor antenna. Currently have an older outdoor antenna and only pickup channel 8.1.

did you try the Silver Sensor? I get mid to high 90's on my Directv HD Tivo with one in Tualatin.

Pat Shearer, I noticed you've gotten the program guide working on KWBP again, Thanks!! :)

Still no idea why KPTV's and KPDX's program information no longer works for me. It used too....

Earl

Lee Wood,

In the event you are monitoring, the static/phase problem with your local feed has once again disappeared. I noticed the night before last when I flipped into your 11:00PM news that is was clear and "static" free once more. Decided to wait until I could verify it last evening and as of this morning it was still OK. I know last time you said you had made no changes when it finally "corrected itself", but I'm hoping if we keep track of this issue we may finally be able to connect the dots and figure out what the root cause is.

On the other hand, the all channel stereo from your HD feed continues on unabated. Dialog does not sound good in the surrounds (especially the rears :().

ron

Originally posted by archer75
So if the Silver sensor won't work at all for me(see posts above) do you think a huge honking roof antenna would? I'd say yes. You might not even need a big antenna. Antenna Web (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx) can answer this question better than we could. Just tell it your location and it'll tell you everything.

Originally posted by archer75
So if the Silver sensor won't work at all for me(see posts above) do you think a huge honking roof antenna would? I would either mount it in the attic or put it in an empty spare room facing the direction of the towers.
Just make sure you get a UHF antenna. All the local HD channels broadcast on the UHF frequencies.

Originally posted by earletp
Pat Shearer, I noticed you've gotten the program guide working on KWBP again, Thanks!!
Wow, you noticed that quickly!. I just got it going about 6:30pm yesterday and you posted at 10:34. I was going to check it out for a few days before telling anyone just to make sure it wasn't a fluke. I also made a small tweak to the system this morning and now you have the ETT data which gives you the full synopsis of the programs. It's pretty cool to look ahead at the programming and see not only the title of the show coming up but also the theme (not that anyone needs to be told that Springer is going to have prostitutes on his show today :) ) Hopefully, the system will stay working now that I figured out how the configuration all works. For those true geeks in the crowd, I pulled a Ghost image of the system's hard drive this morning so I can restore it easily if/when it crashes.

Originally posted by archer75
So if the Silver sensor won't work at all for me(see posts above) do you think a huge honking roof antenna would? I would either mount it in the attic or put it in an empty spare room facing the direction of the towers.
With your location, the problem is probably terrain shielding like a hill in the way. If that is the case, you need to get the antenna as high up as possible. You could test this theory by putting the Silver Sensor up in a tree or on the highest point of your roof and seeing how much the signal improves. I can envision using a spud launcher to shoot a pulling rope through the top of a tree. Kids, don't try this at home! The point is, experiment a bit. You may gain quite a bit by going with an antenna in the attic but unfortunately, that can also get expensive unless you can return the antenna if it doesn't work out. Good Luck.

Pat

I did run the Silver Sensor to an upstairs bedroom facing the towers. I have coax up there all ready. It did'nt make any difference at all.

I did go to antennaweb awhile back to see what they said and I emailed solid signal too who recommend an antenna. Just wanted to get a better idea if it would really work before I go an order it and find out it does'nt

it's too bad that antenna doesnt work, I am truly amazed at how strong a signal I get. I get high 90's on my local OTA HD through a HD Tivo.

I would be willing to bet that you could find an old UHF antenna sitting on someones roof that they aren't using and offer to take it off their hands for them. I have an old crappy bent one that was in my attic when I bought the house and it works fine.

I e-mailed Ed at KPTV/KPDX and found him again to be very responsive and interested in our feedback.
It seems that an obscure software program had crashed and even though it appeared to them that the guide information was being sent correctly it was not making it to the transmitter.
That problem was fixed in just a matter of minutes and the program guide is now working again. (Thanks Ed!!)

I am now receiving guide information from KATU, KOIN, KGW, KPTV, KWBP, and KPDX.

I'm still having trouble with KOPB, and as far as I know PAX doesn't send guide info.

Earl

I can't get PAX on my Silver Sensor. is it in another direction from the others?

PAX is a VHF station, it's probably more unusual that myself and a few others are able to receive it than you not being able to with the Silver Sensor. (it's a UHF antenna)
I'm only 5 - 6 miles due east of the towers...

Earl

Originally posted by archer75
I did run the Silver Sensor to an upstairs bedroom facing the towers. I have coax up there all ready. It did'nt make any difference at all.

I did go to antennaweb awhile back to see what they said and I emailed solid signal too who recommend an antenna. Just wanted to get a better idea if it would really work before I go an order it and find out it does'nt

I have been monitoring the Portland threads because my son and his family live near Vancouver and I am considering giving them my old HDTV receiver to use.

Might I suggest an inexpensive outdoor UHF antenna from Radio Shack that is working well for me here south of Seattle. Radio Shack will accept returns if the product and packaging are in good condition.

The $24 UHF yagi antenna that I am using is http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160

The Radio Shack web site shows it in stock at several Portland/Vancouver area stores.

Since your PAX DTV station is VHF, this antenna would not likely pick up that channel.

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Yes, I did both Sat. & Sun. The interruptions were brief - about 15 seconds each - blank screen followed by "Lost Signal" then back up again full strength. ...

Was this similar to your experience?
Bob

Yes, from your description I think we may have been seeing the same thing. It didn't seem to me like something local either, that's why I asked here. Thanks for the response.

doretta: You're welcome. I wonder why there weren't more people voicing this for such a high-profile HD event? I know there are lots more than the 2 of us who watch football OTA on KOIN.

Well, I may have noticed if I wasn' t "suffering" through the game in non-HD at my parents house. <sigh>

It looks like Voom will be shut down. That's really too bad as I was considering subscribing to that service specifically for the quantity of HD content. Take a look here: http://www.tvpredictions.com/echostarvoom012005.html

Speaking of HD on satellite, I got a call from someone from DirecTV yesterday. He was looking for information about where they might locate a central receive site to pick up all the Portland HD signals for their system. Maybe Portland will be in the first wave of local HD stations on their service.

Pat

Because of the low to the horizon position of their satellite, VOOM was a non-starter for me. Even if terrain weren't an issue, I always wondered how much having to traverse such a large amount of lower atmosphere would effect the signal.

I wonder why there weren't more people voicing this for such a high-profile HD event? I know there are lots more than the 2 of us who watch football OTA on KOIN.

Sorry Bob :)
I've also been having a lot more dropouts on KGW lately too. Then there's the audio drops on KATU.... ;)

Earl

I've had Voom for 10 months and hardly ever watched it. I will miss a few channels but they really were hurting for content, much of their programming was quite repetitive and they had PQ problems from overcompression of their HD channels.

I also have the Dish HD Pack and the PQ from Dish is much better than Voom. HDNET from Dish is as good, if not better, than any OTA HD I've ever viewed.

Originally posted by Marissadad
HDNET from Dish is as good, if not better, than any OTA HD I've ever viewed. That's the way it used to be on D* when it first started too :(. HDNet had the most real looking images I've ever seen on a TV screen. Hopefully with all the new sats going up and MPEG-4 compression they will be using D* will get back to some quality PQ again in the near future.

ron

Is Dish's satellite any higher up in our sky than Voom's? All the Dish dishes I've seen around here look like they're pointed awfully low.

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Does anyone who gets program info from 10-1 on their OTA receiver know if it is current/accurate? My OTA receiver doesn't provide that but the iGuide I have from Comcast gives me analog channel 10 data when I tune to ch 710, OPB digital. It's never correct so I need to go back to my email schedule to see what's coming on 10-1. Just wondering if there's a different stream of program information OTA that iGuide doesn't get/pass.

Bob

I corresponded with Mike at KOPB and he confirmed that their OTA program guide currently contains no information.
They are waiting for new software to import the data and they hope to have the guide up and running by early February.

Not sure what glz was seeing, maybe he can explain?

Earl

Earl: Did you and Mike happen to discuss how their program info that we see on OPBDT on Comcast is always for the analog channel? It's never correct. Maybe since they have only the one analog stream, they give that to iGuide as a default. I would rather they didn't have anything for Comcast than incorrect data taht can cause screwups for recording. Sorry to be hijacking the OTA thread with Comcast stuff but they do relate, I think.

Bob

Originally posted by scowl
Is Dish's satellite any higher up in our sky than Voom's? All the Dish dishes I've seen around here look like they're pointed awfully low. http://mysite.verizon.net/res02dad/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/P1090032.jpg
Center dish is 110/119
left dish is 148
right dish is 105

The arms are offset to the bottom so the sat aim point is higher than the center point of the dish. 61.5 at my house would point into the ground.

I'm really hoping someone can help me out, because I'm getting terribly frustrated with my whole situation.

Background: I am a DirecTV subscriber and have loved their service. But, you can't get local channels in HD. They used to offer local channels in HD if the local channel approved some crazy type of waiver. Apparently, a law was passed that killed the whole waiver process and DirecTV is now estimating that it will be 2006 until I can get local channels in HD. I had a person some out with a Blu Boy antenna to my house (in Battle Ground, WA) and he wasn't able to get enough signal at my house.

So, here are my questions:
1) Is there an antenna out there that might give me a better chance of getting the OTA signal?
2) Who even ake Blu Boy antennas? I can't seem to find any info on them.
3) Anyone know a retailer that has a particular expertise in these types of things?
4) Anyone else live in Battle Ground and find a solution that works?

Any help is much appreciated. I really don't want to have to wait until 2006!! Plus, I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD!

Bob,
No, Comcast didn't come up, the dual feed was discussed briefly and it sounds like they plan to keep that format. I only asked about OTA and its program info. Maybe once they get the PSIP running on both the main and sub-channel Comcast's iGuide will pick it up. I know that TitanTV has recently added the 10-2 sub-channel but lists programming as unavailable and their program information for 10-1 also follows the analog channel.
Sorry I'm not more help.

Earl

nwlion,
Maybe someone that lives in your area will come in with more help, but in the meantime check out The Official AVS Antenna / OTA Reception Topic! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=381623), there's a lot of good information about antennas and reception issues there.

Earl

My understanding is that Direct TV does not carry locals in HD because they do not have the bandwidth for it. And it requires set top boxes with an MPEG 4 encoder.

They are launching 4 satellites this year to give them the bandwidth to broadcast an additional 1500 channels. And they will be replacing thier current HD receivers with no MPEG4 receivers. I have been told that those of use with the HD Tivo from them will be getting a free replacement when this happens and at that time we will get HD locals. Sounds like this will be at the end of this year.

The audio levels on KATU were horrible tonight, the network feed was very quiet compared to the local. I had to constantly adjust the volume to keep from blowing me out of the house...

Earl

What's even more wierd; I was watching Home Makeover, Desperate Housewives and Boston Legal live on my Voom stb and recording it on my Dish stb and when they would change from network to local, the Voom stb would lose audio for about 10 seconds but the Dish kept audio but it sounded like it was sputtering.

Originally posted by gaubster2
Anyone else having problems with Fox this evening? I couldn't pull them in (with a Silver Sensor here off of 164th in Vancouver) at all this weekend and couldn't see the playoff games in HD. Last night American Idol on FOX was pretty amazing in HD (made it watchable) for my wife and me. I'm getting absolutely nothing tonight. (I'm also having major pixelation probs with PBS)

FWIW, I've noticed with my silver sensor that I sometimes have to tweak the direction I have it aimed a little bit. They are pretty directional. It may be that it's moving a bit due to vibrations or whatever, but it seems to me that the weather makes a difference sometimes.

Fortunately mine sits right on top my TV and its easy to check the signal level, I just bring up the diagnostic mode and move the antenna until the signal gets reasonable. Since it only takes about 20 seconds from start to finish and it's normally weeks between tweaks it doesn't bother me.

I normally see signal strengths in the 80s not the 90s. I'm close enough that I'd guess it's multipath keeping the signal strength low. I get a perfectly reliable picture in the 70s-80s so I haven't tried an attenuator.

Are there any local companies gearing up to deliver TV via fiber optics in Portland. Apparently verizon is rolling out this type of service in several cities. Given the bandwidth nothing technical stops it from being cband without BUD, i.e. way cool with broad selection of high quality channels. Japanese already have home fiberoptic driven internet. If I understand correctly trend is to use fiber optics to bring signal into hood and other technologies for last mile into house.

From what I've read, Verizon (and everyone else) is still in the experimental stage of deploying "fiber to the curb" to see if it's worth it. Apparently it all has to be installed underground which makes it crazy expensive in low-density population areas (i.e. almost everywhere in the U.S.) and how could they compete with cable companies who already have 800 Mhz of bandwidth going into almost every home already? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Originally posted by earletp
The audio levels on KATU were horrible tonight, the network feed was very quiet compared to the local. I had to constantly adjust the volume to keep from blowing me out of the house...

Earl

Yeah, that was crazy! Here I am, trying to get my wife comfortable using the new Harmony 680 remote with one-button functionality and I wind up having to keep reaching for various remotes to switch to the analog feed at the end of each commercial break so we don't miss the first 10 seconds or so of dialog, then switching back to digital, muting/unmuting the receiver feed, aarrrggggh! The problem here was evident both OTA and via Comcast. I need to send a note to KATU this morning.

Bob

I've traded a couple emails with Alan Batdorf at KATU. He says he made an adjustment to their network DD 5.1 encoder that may fix the problem. I don't think a fix will be proven until the next network HD feed with 5.1 but he is setting up a test to monitor it locally but also asked for input if it's still not right. Good response from a local engineer who listens and cares, IMO. Thanks, Alan!

Originally posted by R11
Lee Wood,

In the event you are monitoring, the static/phase problem with your local feed has once again disappeared. I noticed the night before last when I flipped into your 11:00PM news that is was clear and "static" free once more. Decided to wait until I could verify it last evening and as of this morning it was still OK. I know last time you said you had made no changes when it finally "corrected itself", but I'm hoping if we keep track of this issue we may finally be able to connect the dots and figure out what the root cause is.

On the other hand, the all channel stereo from your HD feed continues on unabated. Dialog does not sound good in the surrounds (especially the rears :().

ron Sorry for the slow response. I was in Indianapolis most of last week helping out on getting PSIP rolled out to all of our sister stations. This also means KOIN is now on the new PSIP system and the problems we have had with the old one are a thing of the past. No more program lock-ups - Yahoo!

Getting back to the question - we have changed nothing (except for PSIP last Thursday). Audio routing and processing remains the same. As far as CBS HD audio goes, we don't touch it at all. It comes out of the CBS receiver embedded in the video and straight into the encoder without being decoded or processed in any way. All of the problems seem to come down to how CBS is handling Dolby ProLogic-II encoding.

As for the hits in the game on Sunday the 16th they were incoming that way. CBS even took the HD feed down for about 15 minutes after about 5 minutes because the audio mixdown was terrible and the picture was breaking up badly. After that it was better, but not perfect.

heh, I didn't mind so much when the audio disappeared on KATU during the commercials, but it got old real fast when it disappeared from the show after each break.
(that and the evil eye I got from my wife when the floor shook from the bass when I wasn't fast enough on the mute button) :D

I think we are real fortunate with the engineers we have here in Portland.
Alan, Lee, Mike, Ed and Pat are very responsive and truly seem to care about our small but growing group. I very much appreciate their accessibility and commitment.

Earl

I thought I'd pass along that I talked to the Chief Engineer at KNMT today and he told me they are installing a new PSIP system with plans to have it putting out program guide info in time for the February 1st deadline. His system is identical to mine and now that I know all about how it works, I volunteered to help him if he has problems so I truly believe he will make the deadline.

Thanks Earl for the nice comment. It's unusual and much appreciated when somebody acknowledges the "behind the scenes" work of those of us in the broadcast engineering field.

Pat

KNMT must be super low power, I never see it during a scan down here in Woodburn.

Ditto, Pat, Lee, Alan, Ed, it's great having all of my favorite shows in HD now, Enterprise is awesome and 24 kicks butt over the old 480P widescreen. Thanks again for all of your efforts.

Hey Lee, does Jeff Gianola think Portland has more than 15 HD capable viewers now?

Well I contacted Solid Signal about what to get and they suggested this antenna:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=Antennas%20TV&PROD=ANC4248

I received it today and it does'nt work any better than the set top antennas i've tried. I still cannot get any HD with it.

They also suggested that I get this pre-amp:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=&PROD=ANC7775

Which I did not get. Do you think that would help at all?

My signal strength on my Direct TV receiver is at about 13, though it dips to 0 quite a bit. And a few times it peaked at 100 briefly.

archer,

Line of site will have a significant impact on your reception capability. I am located in West Linn a few blocks below the top of the hill. (the peak of the hill lies in the direction of the tower. When I had D* installed they brought a Winegard antenna. When innitially set up it could not pull in a signal. The installer put an amp on it, and voila...3 stations came in. He ran a coax up to my attic and fiddled with the placement for awhile and I am able to receive all 5 networks OTA. My D* signal strenght meter ranges from 80-100 depending on the station. If the amp can be returned I would absolutely give it a shot, and I would get that antenna as high as you can.

Craig

The pre-amp is different from a standard line amp isn't it?

Here is one from radio shack, which I know I can return:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F001&product%5Fid=15%2D2507

Would that work?

Right now I have antenna sitting in an upstairs bedroom sticking out the window. I would like to put it in the attic but did'nt want to mess with it if it's not going to work. But maybe i'll just have to do that.

Originally posted by Lee Wood
Getting back to the question - we have changed nothing (except for PSIP last Thursday). Audio routing and processing remains the same. As far as CBS HD audio goes, we don't touch it at all. It comes out of the CBS receiver embedded in the video and straight into the encoder without being decoded or processed in any way. All of the problems seem to come down to how CBS is handling Dolby ProLogic-II encoding.Lee,

Well, I believe you didn't change anything, but something is different :). The audio on the local feed is perfectly fine now without any wispyness. But the HD is really a drag. So it's a CBS issue then. Do you know if they are attempting to correct it at all? Or are all PLII customers just up a creek? Alternatively I would say you should just get the 5.1 capability locally and eliminate the problem altogether, but we know the till is empty there at KOIN...

ron

Originally posted by archer75
Well I contacted Solid Signal about what to get and they suggested this antenna:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=Antennas%20TV&PROD=ANC4248
The only suggestion I can think of is that a 28 element yagi is very directional so you have to adjust it very slowly and carefully, especially with digital signals because the signal strength can take a few seconds to settle down. I spent a long time fiddling around with mine before I got it working.

Originally posted by Pat Shearer
Thanks Earl for the nice comment. It's unusual and much appreciated when somebody acknowledges the "behind the scenes" work of those of us in the broadcast engineering field.

Pat
You're quite welcome Pat, you guys deserve it!!


Looks like Alan has a bit more tweaking to do on KATU, eh? :)

Earl

Is there such a thing as a battery powered antenna amp? I have a temporary setup that I don't want to run electricity outside to. So, does such an animal exist?

I get a great signal on everything but Fox12 and sometimes KGW is iffy. I'd just like to get a little boost from those two. Any chance of upping just these two?

Is there such a thing as a battery powered antenna amp? I have a temporary setup that I don't want to run electricity outside to. So, does such an animal exist

Not battery but there are coax powered ones --

Originally posted by Marissadad
Hey Lee, does Jeff Gianola think Portland has more than 15 HD capable viewers now? It's at least 16 now that he has joined the select group.:)

Originally posted by Paul_PDX
Not battery but there are coax powered ones -- Yeah, Radio Shack sells one. You install the amp outside at your antenna and a "DC block" to the coax before it goes into your receiver.

There are also indoor amplifiers that will amplify all the noise between your antenna and receiver. If you're only dealing with a weak signal and you aren't picking up much noise, this could work for you.

It has been posted that KATU is having sound problems, but am I the only one experiencing a Ch. 2 DD5.1 signal that is dead in all channels except front L and R? I first noticed it while trying to watch "Aladdin" last weekend. The opening "Cave of Wonders" scene should have surrounded me with deep echoes and rumbling bass and there was no surround or bass at all. That's when I put my ear to each speaker and noticed only the front 2 were active, although my receiver is getting a 5 channel signal through my optical connection.

Curiously, I tuned in to the last 5 minutes of "American Idol" (just to compare their DD5.1 sound - I never watch AI) and noticed that the actual singing auditions were coming exclusively from the center channel in mono, while the annoying "Whooosh" sound effects and theme music came from all the surround channels. Nice use of audio technology, Fox!

Yeah, I'm not getting anything from the rears either.

Aside from the audio problems does anyone else think Alias looked kind of rough tonight too?

Earl

Anyone see "West Wing" last night? It's been months since I've seen it, and I have to say that the HD pq is of equal or slightly less quality than my dvd's. I assume this is a network thing, as oppose to any broadcast issues with the local affiliate. My signal is strong, but the pq is lacking.

Craig

Richard, yes, KATU has been like that all along. When they receive DD 5.1 audio feeds from ABC since they do not have 5.1 capability locally, that is the result. You should be able to switch your HD receiver to output "PCM" audio instead of DD and that will allow your audio amp to matrix the sound using Pro Logic and it will sound just fine (but you will need to go back and reset your receiver to DD afterward of course :( ).

Since KOIN has begun receiving DD feeds from CBS they have a similar problem because they do not have DD capability locally either. Their result is "all channel" stereo where you get dialog from all the surround speakers in addition to the center channel. And, unlike the situation with KATU, switching to PCM makes no difference (at least with PLII receivers anyway). It's ugly. I have stopped watching KOIN HD for this reason. We seem to be moving backward instead of forward unfortunately :mad: .

Craig, yes the HD quality on WW is not good and it is the source. It has never been very good but I understand that this season they began shooting it on 16mm to save money. Like many of the FOX shows, it results in mega grain and extremely soft, dark images. I guess it may look alright in SD but it it makes for lousy HD. I really wish they would all go to shooting with HD video like Enterprise and a few others. Makes for some outstanding PQ and saves money at the same time.

ron

I think I'll hold off buying a 5.1 receiver for now! My old Dolby Pro Logic amplifier sounds just fine on all of these stations.

Originally posted by R11
yes, KATU has been like that all along.

It most certainly has not. I checked my recording of last weeks Alias, and (unlike this weeks) it comes through in full 5.1. In fact, since I have recieved KATU it has been passing full 5.1 from the 5.1 ABC broadcasts. Only programming that originated in 2.0 has appeared as a 5.1 stream with only the L and R channels active.

Yablo is correct. KATU has a DD 5.1 encoder for network HD events that provide a 5.1 source, per Alan Batdorf their chief engineer.
Bob

Originally posted by Yablo
It most certainly has not. I checked my recording of last weeks Alias, and (unlike this weeks) it comes through in full 5.1. In fact, since I have recieved KATU it has been passing full 5.1 from the 5.1 ABC broadcasts. Only programming that originated in 2.0 has appeared as a 5.1 stream with only the L and R channels active. Sorry guys, you are correct of course. Brain freeze early this morning. I think I had the "circle surround" MNF broadcasts stuck in my mind there (which are the 2.0 as a 5.1 stream). And after all those awesome sounding LOST ep too. What was I thinking... :o

ron

Originally posted by earletp
Aside from the audio problems does anyone else think Alias looked kind of rough tonight too? I've only seen a couple of episodes this season but it is by far the grainiest series I've ever seen. The contrast isn't very good either. Have they switched to 16mm this season? It looks almost as bad as my analog cable channels!

Last night during the KPTV 10 o'clock news, it was all I could do to keep from jumping at the screen to strangle Wayne Garcia. His feature on technology last night was about formats for video recording, existing and future. But his lead-in for the segment alluded to the FCC-mandated change to digital transmission and he said something like ~TV stations are required to change to high definition broadcasts~ (sorry, I can't put it into quotes because I glazed over after hearing the faux pas "high definition" in the place where "digital" would have been correct.

Now I can see where a print reporter might be confused in the facts, and this has been going on for more than the 2 years I have been interested in HD and never seems to ever be really clarified for the general public. But here this comes from a TV personality who should be better prepared than his print bretheren. Errors like this do nothing more than further cloud the issue for people who fear they will no longer be able to view TV unless they go out and buy a very expensive HD-capable TV.

I have emailed the KPTV 10 o'clock news team to point out the error. Pat Shearer - can you take Mr. Garcia aside and give him a bit of edjukashun?

Bob

I watched the first 3 episodes of Alias live and though they are grainey, I thought they looked excellent and I have an 8' wide screen I'm viewing on. I had to record this week's episode on my SD PVR and haven't watched it yet, so I don't know if this week was an exception or not. Aside from the sound glitches, the PQ is still excellent for me.

scowl, I agree it is one of the "grainiest" series on right now.

Marissadad, on my itsy bitsy, tiny, hardly worth a mention, 34" screen it did seem to be worse to me, at places even losing detail. Admittedly part of that could be because the audio problems were grating on me more than normal too. :)
I'm interested in hearing your opinion after you get a chance to watch the last episode and see if you agree.

Bob, I'm sure Pat could do that but it may carry more weight if Ed Williams were to be the one that actually did it. ;)

Earl

Originally posted by earletp
scowl, Bob, I'm sure Pat could do that but it may carry more weight if Ed Williams were to be the one that actually did it. ;)

Earl

Oops, did I confuse the players? Sorry to any and all. I know my complaint to KPTV was properly directed.
Thanks, Earl.

I just got done watching the PVR'd copy and even being SD, it didn't look so bad to me, no worse than it ever has. Alias, to me, has always been very grainy, maybe it's been a gradual decline and I just didn't notice.

Alias has always been grainy and this season really isn't any different.

Well I finally got my antenna issues resolved for the most part. To sum up I went through 2 set top antennas including the Silver Sensor and I could'nt pick up a single channel with them.
So I get a huge Channel Master antenna and put it up in an unused upstairs bedroom. I still got not pick up any channels.

So I got an amp/preamp and this allowed me to pick up channels 6 and 2, though 2 was a bit flakey.

So I mounted the antenna up in the attic and now I get in all channels except for channel 8 and pax. And all channels other than those come in really solid. So i'm not sure why i'm not getting channel 8.

What's up with channel 6? I get 3 HD channels, 6-1, 6-2 and 6-3. Though 6-3 shows up on direct tv program guide as "skycam" but it shows the normal programming that is on channel 6.
6-2 seems really stretched and not HD at all. 6-1 seems to be HD but in a 4:3 format. Not sure why.

Originally posted by hilladen
Alias has always been grainy and this season really isn't any different. I've heard that they're shooting all night and dim interior scenes on Vision 800T. If you've ever shot 800 speed 35mm film, you know how much grain you get with that stuff.

It's incredible that Veronica Mars is shot on 16mm yet looks much better. There was one scene where she was using a direction finder looking for the LoJack signal of a stolen car at night. Her face was lit by the finder's screen (probably a prop light) and the sky in the background was ptich black instead of the swirly blue grain we see on Alias. I wonder if they're cleaning up those scenes digitally.

Originally posted by archer75
What's up with channel 6? I get 3 HD channels, 6-1, 6-2 and 6-3. Though 6-3 shows up on direct tv program guide as "skycam" but it shows the normal programming that is on channel 6.
6-2 seems really stretched and not HD at all. 6-1 seems to be HD but in a 4:3 format. Not sure why.
X.X (example 6.1) defines a digital broadcast. X (example 6) is an analog transmission. X.1 is typically the HD transmission of a digital broadcast facility. X.2 or X.3 are side bands of the digital broadcast facility (standard as appeased to HD). You'll find in all markets there is the old broadcasts just as it always has been on the same channels it's always been. Then in addition to the analog broadcast, a X.1 and possible a x.2 and x.3. Most facilities broadcast the same content in these side channels but the don't have to (IE, 10.1 is PBS-HD, 10.2 is the same as the analog 10). Confused? it takes a while to get it all but just keep in mine the local broadcasters do things just as they use to on the same frequencies. the digital broadcasts use the decimal point and the number after the decimal point indicates the main digital broadcast or a side band of the mail digital broadcast.

I have had a Winegard HD7084P installed on my roof for about 6 months now. It is on an eave mount and 10ft mast, so it clears the peak of my roof by about 6 feet. I also have a Winegard AP-4800 preamp. I am running about 40ft of Belden 1694A RG6 cable to the distribution box, to a splitter then 10ft to my HTPC with MYHD 120 tuner card.

I get the following signal strength according to the MYHD card on a clear day:

KATU - 69%
KOIN - 69%
KGW - 32%
OPB - 40%
FOX - 25%
WB - 36%
PAX - 58%
UPN - 0%

KATU, KOIN, and PAX are about 98% reliable regaurdless of weather.
OPB and WB are about 75% reliable,
and FOX and KGW are about 25% reliable.

When I installed the pre-amp I saw no real change to the SS or reliability.

I would really like to get the reliability up and be able to lock UPN.

My analog signals look good for all but UPN, WB, and PAX, where UPN, WB, and PAX are almost unwatchable.

I am in Camas, WA on the BACK side of Prune Hill about 16 miles from the towers. I would have to put up ~200ft mast to get line of site.

Would a different antenna help? Is it possible my preamp is bad, since I saw little to no change with it? Are there any professional installers in the area, that can get me up and running bettter?

Originally posted by johnand
Would a different antenna help? Is it possible my preamp is bad, since I saw little to no change with it? Are there any professional installers in the area, that can get me up and running bettter
From a post of mine back in November...
Originally posted by Pat Shearer
You may also have to experiment with an attenuator pad as mentioned in several posts as I have found that in most cases, 6 or 10 dB will reduce the error rate in the decoder no matter how strong or weak the signal is.
As many here will attest to, you should now try experimenting with an attenuator placed right on the input to your receiver. Radio Shack has a variable one http://*******.com/4zu4t for only $9 that is worth trying. It might be that the amplifier boosted the signal to the point that there are now reflections in the feed line causing errors and an attenuator can dramatically reduce those errors without knocking the signal level down too far. The signal strength reading on the receiver is actually a bit error rate indication so it is not just about how much signal is present but rather the quality of the decoding. Give it a try and let us know how it works out.

Pat

Originally posted by johnand
I am in Camas, WA on the BACK side of Prune Hill about 16 miles from the towers. I would have to put up ~200ft mast to get line of site.
Dude, Call Comcast... I know the area well. The BACK SIDE of Prune Hill... No way if your so low you need 200 feet for LOS. Sorry but for some, OTA just is not meant to be...

Originally posted by johnand
Would a different antenna help? Is it possible my preamp is bad, since I saw little to no change with it? Are there any professional installers in the area, that can get me up and running bettter? You should check analog reception on UHF 24, which is on the KOIN site, and UHF 49, which is the KPDX site and adjacent to the KPTV site. Since most of the digital channels are in the 40s' it is not likely the preamp is the problem, but multipath might be. Use the analog signals and adjust the antenna for the least ghosting on both channels. Since you are dealing with very short wavelengths even small adjustments can have a big effect. A slightly different location on the roof may improve reception as well.

Hello Portland

Im from the Omaha NE thread. Looks like we have the same problem. Emmis owns one of your stations ==KOIN== in the area and they will not let them put there HD Channel on Cable as they want Money for a Free over the air channel.

Please help and Email Emmis and let them know what you think.

===============Pasted from the thread==============

Looks like over in the Omaha-Lincoln Ne Thread the Cox Cable Emmis issue is still alive.

Emmis pulled there CBS HD from Cox cable one year again demanding money for the free over the air channel.


Here is the thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...&pagenumber=130


Here is some info on who to Email- pated from the thread

Here are the EMAIL Addresses for the Top VPs at Emmis Corp (the ones who own KM3 and the ones who made them pull the HD).

Cut and Past Comma delimited:

rmena@emmis.com,desayian@emmis.com,kate@emmis.com,staffingde partment@emmis.com,ir@emmis.com,wzberger@emmis.com,rcummings @emmis.com

(below is a line by line list)

Please Email them weekly and ask for the free HD channel to be put back on.



KM3 and Emmis one year ago said they pulled there HD Feed because cox was charging for it and making money on it.

Things have changed in the last year.

Now all cable systems in a Emmis area offer the Local HD channels FREE unscrambled via free QAM channels.

This means the Emmis reasoning is no longer valid. They have no reason to demand money for a FREE OVER THE AIR HD Signal.

After all the Government, our tax money gave them the channel. We should be able to watch it free over the air and free on cable.

It is time for Emmis to add KM3 HD back to Cox.



rmena@emmis.com
desayian@emmis.com
kate@emmis.com
staffingdepartment@emmis.com
ir@emmis.com
wzberger@emmis.com
rcummings@emmis.com

this is the OTA thread, we can get KOIN via an antenna, you might want to post this in the PDX cable thread.

Is the subwoofer channel missing from Fox-HD's broadcast? I was watching "24" last night, and noticed that during the network broadcast, the subwoofer seemed to not be active. All the other sound channels (including surrounds) seemed to be fine.

Any ideas?

HZ

Originally posted by archer75
My understanding is that Direct TV does not carry locals in HD because they do not have the bandwidth for it. And it requires set top boxes with an MPEG 4 encoder.

They are launching 4 satellites this year to give them the bandwidth to broadcast an additional 1500 channels. And they will be replacing thier current HD receivers with no MPEG4 receivers. I have been told that those of use with the HD Tivo from them will be getting a free replacement when this happens and at that time we will get HD locals. Sounds like this will be at the end of this year.

I'm new to the forum so pls excuse my ignorance. You say that they are going to a different encoder so we will be getting a replacement HD Tivo STB? I just recently purchased an HD-210 and am already going to get a replacement? Thanks in advance for the clarification :)

Originally posted by Mitch P.
I'm new to the forum so pls excuse my ignorance. You say that they are going to a different encoder so we will be getting a replacement HD Tivo STB? I just recently purchased an HD-210 and am already going to get a replacement? Thanks in advance for the clarification :)

Yes, but it will be late this year, maybe early next year. More info on www.tivocommunity.com

over in the HDTV Hardware section, some are wondering if it will be replaced or if we are going to be required to pay something if anything. It's very confusing and extremely worrysome. To think that a $1k STB could be useless in less than a year is scary to say the least and I'd be one PO'd customer if that was the case. However, common sense makes me believe that they will be taking care of their customers...I hope?

Thanks for the link, I'll go research over there as well.

Minor point but has anyone noticed how all of the local anchors on FOX look yellow. The jaundiced network?

Overall OTA SD digital local news including FOX seems to have high quality PQ relative to national SD news.

Did anyone do any channel surfing during the Bush State of the Union speech? I'm amassed at the difference in picture quality from station to station. I think KATU was at the low end of the local HD transmission. KOIN would have been best for me overall had it not been for the audio coming out of all the speakers (this seems to happen often with network feeds and is very annoying). Technically speaking, Overall I think I have to give the top rating to KGW.

Originally posted by glz
KOIN would have been best for me overall had it not been for the audio coming out of all the speakers (this seems to happen often with network feeds and is very annoying). You said it right brother :mad:. Worse than annoying. I've given up watching KOIN altogether during their network feed. I'll be seriously disappointed if I have to watch Survivor via analog when it starts up in a couple weeks. And KOIN is by far the worst reception analog channel for me too... Between the wispy/phase problems that come and go on their local feed and the all channel stereo on the network feed, KOIN currently holds the title for worst HD/upconversion channel in town (for PLII viewers at least). It's sad.

ron

Well i havnt posted since my original post asking what type of equipment to by.. dozens of pages ago ;) I ended up with 2 HD 3000's and myth for my pvr software. A am 27 miles from towers (woodland wa) and a silver sensor does the trick. the only odd thing is that i have my silver sensor turned 180 degrees from where it should point. that is the only way i can receive all the channels. it works well!! happy to have a cool forum like this. though i wish we had more then one thread. :)

For me KOIN is one of the best channels. It's KGW that I can't even get.

With the different audio issues between channels, I've went back to using my TV instead of my SS most of the time any more.

For those interested, KOPB now has their program guide up and it shows the schedules for both of the feeds.

Earl

About time OPB, thanks. I always was wondering what I would turn to on 10-1. Sometimes it took a while of watching to figure it out. This isn't a pledge drive gimmick is it?

Originally posted by earletp
With the different audio issues between channels, I've went back to using my TV instead of my SS most of the time any more.

For those interested, KOPB now has their program guide up and it shows the schedules for both of the feeds.

Earl
I still don't get a guide for 10.2

My audio peeve lately has been with KATU. After a week ago Sunday's showing of Desp. HW and Boston Legal was replete with sudden volume spikes when entering local commercial spots, then silence for a few seconds each time the program was rejoined and a very low volume (compared to other stations) for the program content, I emailed KATU on Monday, 1/24 . I got a reply from Alan Batdorf immediately. He said there was a problem with their ABC Network Dolby 5.1 encoder that he was troubleshooting.

He said he tried a couple of tweaks and would I let him know if there was improvement. I reported back that the volume level for the daytime program I tuned to seemed to now be on par with other stations. The real test would come with the next network show presented in 5.1. I wasn't able to view an ABC 5.1 show until Wed. night - LOST. It was not much better than Sun. and I reported this to Alan next day. I have not heard from him since.

While watching the rerun of LOST last night all seemed to be running pretty smoothly until the commercials a little more than halfway through. Network commercial sound was OK but then a local spot for KATU news had periods of silence. Then when the show was rejoined, about 10 seconds of dialogue was missed before the sound came back on.

When you miss important parts of the dialogue, it ruins the whole experience. Since I cannot trust KATU to give me a steady audio track from their digital feed, I feel I have no choice but to tune to the analog channel. Actually, I have in the past tuned to the analog channel for the audio while I watch the HD picture. The lip sync isn't right but at least I don't miss anything.

I hate workarounds like this and hope Alan and company can fix this asap! I recall in the past when KATU had problems, Alan would alert the forum and give us updates. Are you out there, Alan?

Bob

Originally posted by glz
I still don't get a guide for 10.2

I now have a feeling that is between you and your DBS provider, which would also explain your post about getting the program guide on KOPB (10.1) before they were even broadcasting it.

We are talking about two different things.


Earl

Originally posted by earletp
I now have a feeling that is between you and your DBS provider, which would also explain your post about getting the program guide on KOPB (10.1) before they were even broadcasting it.

We are talking about two different things.


Earl
I'm talking about when I tune in to a channel I get a brief display of the current program (along with the date/time/CH Icon and info about rating/language/HD/Audio format/etc). If I then push "Display" on the remote I get all the info from before along with a detailed description of the current program. This works on just about every channel but 10.2

I'm using a Sony HD300 receiver connected to DirecTV with local service (I have the local service only because my original setup did not include an outdoor antenna). What do I need to re-set to get 10.2 to work like 10 and 10.1?

glz,
Even though you're watching the local channels, your signal and program information is coming from DirecTV opposed to receiving it directly from the station through an antenna. You could try to contact DirecTV or whomever supplies their program information and let them know of the change and see if they can update their guide.

As long as the HD300 will decode PSIP, your other option is to hook up an antenna and watch the terrestrial broadcast.

Earl

Earl,
I AM receive terrestrial broadcast. I've got the Sony HD300 connected to the DirecTV dish, AND a UHF antenna AND Comcast. Everything works correct Except the terrestrial 10.2 guide. The HD300 works like 3 tuners. I receive a DirecTV CH 10 from DirecTV, a Comcast CH 10, a terrestrial analog CH 10, a terrestrial digital CH 10.1 and a terrestrial digital CH 10.2. Everything works fine and meshes well together with the guide except when i turn in the terrestrial CH 10.2. DirecTV's 10, terrestrial analog CH 10 and terrestrial digital CH 10.2 all broadcast the same programs. The terrestrial digital 10.1 often has a totally different program on (guide for 10.1 works perfect). All I want is the guide to reflect the correct info for the correct channel (IE., 10.2).

I currently have the HD300 setup to block DirecTV CH 10, Comcast CH 10, and terrestrial analog CH 10 from the guide along with a few others because they all are inferior to the local terrestrial digital broadcasts. As I surf I go from 2.1, 6.1, 8.1 to 10.1 then 10.2 then 12.1, etc (all terrestrial digital)... Then on to more DirecTV and Comcast channels. 10.2 does not show the guide info, all the rest do. Does anyone else get a guide for 10.2? (Remember 10.2 is the sideband of the terrestrial digital KOPB.)... I don't get why it's not working if others ARE getting a guide for terrestrial digital 10.2. Please confirm you ARE receiving a guide for terrestrial digital sideband 10.2 ???

With a D* box, 10-1 and 10-2 are OTA, but the boxes do not pull PSIP info. All the program info for the integrated guide and channel banners comes from D* and whomever it is that they contract with to provide it (based on zip code IIRC). As Earl said, contacting D* about it would probably be your best bet or you could try working it from the other end and asking OPB to see if they could prompt whoever's responsible to get it going.

Isn't 10-2 just a simulcast of analog 10 the way it used to be way back when? You could always just look at the listings for 10 to see what is on. Yeah, yeah I know. Not a perfect solution because that means you have to actually have 10 in your guide and that's just one more to have to scroll over when surfing and you can't just bring up the channel banner while watching a show ;).

So I was happy to see last nights ep of CSI wasn't DD 5.1 so I could actually watch it :). And in the process the light finally clicked on in my head that since Survivor won't be in HD anyway, there's no way it will be 5.1 either so I'll be able to watch it without resorting to analog ghost-city. Feels kind of strange to root for shows not to be in 5.1... (sorry Lee, I know you guys work hard and it's not your fault).

edit: I see you posted a response before I finally stuck mine up there glz.

ron

We had DirecTV Advanced Program Guide (APG) issues with digital OTA channels before, but they have been resolved. After several futile attempts to find someone interested and knowledegeable at DirecTV, we contacted folks at Zap2It.com since they collect the program guide/schedule data from the local stations and pass it on to DirecTV. I got an email response from them within 24 hours acknowledging my request. They also briefly explained their interaction with DirecTV.

In our case, the PBS subchannel assignments were mixed up in the APG. After their quick initial response, it still took several weeks for the results to appear on my HD receivers. During that time they had similar problems being addressed for stations all over the country. Perhaps now there are fewer problems of that type and they might be able to deliver solutions in less time.

IIRC, Zap2It.com is related to Tribune Broadcasting FWIW.

Thanks Guys,
So am i the only one on this thread with this problem? I would think it's a global problem... Can anyone confirm this weekend, No guide on 10.2 terrestrial when using with DirecTV setup...
Thanks,

glz,
When you saidI'm using a Sony HD300 receiver connected to DirecTV with local service (I have the local service only because my original setup did not include an outdoor antenna). I took that to mean your local stations were being retransmitted to you by DirecTV instead of receiving them OTA (terrestrial). I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Since your guide comes from DirecTV it is a bit of a moot point though. ;)

Ron, Yes, all indications are that 10-2 is a mirror of the analog broadcast.
10-1 is reserved for HD and upconverted widescreen material. Which is very cool !! :D

Earl

edited to add....hahaha!! you just beat me out too!! :D

Has anyone noticed that some stations aren't good at PSIP yet? I wrote a simple script to hunt down shows I want to watch and save them but the PSIP data I'm getting just isn't good enough. KATU says they're running "Alladin" again tongiht which I don't think is accurate. KGW, KWBP and KOPB rarely have more than eight hours of listings, usually just what's on tonight.

On the other hand, KOIN usually has at least two days of listings. KPTV and KPDX are just incredible. They've always had at least a week and sometimes as much as two weeks of listings.

I'm thinking about teaching myself XML and start using the XMLTV service that zap2it.com provides. The data I've gotten from them has been accurate, detailed and lots of it.

Okay, local OTA fans, how did Fox and KPTV do with the superbowl?

There have been intermittent complaints here that Fox HD is inferior to others. Was that still true?

I'm asking mostly from a curiosity/academic point of view. I don't have HD yet and now there's no reason for me to worry about it until August.

Originally posted by Phantom Gremlin
Okay, local OTA fans, how did Fox and KPTV do with the superbowl?
IT WAS GREAT !!! :D

The Superbowl looked very nice on KPTV OTA. I am very happy they allocated all 19Mbps to it here in Portland. I had many people over that commented how incredible it looked and just could not believe it was over the air!

Josh

I thought it was very good, too. After watching the poor quality of Fox' playoff games I was preparing myself for more of the same. But, IMO, Fox came through in very good shape. Not quite the CBS quality of long shots but very good. I think they minimized the time spent on those long shots by the director/producer showing more close up shots. For example, we didn't see the first McNabb fumble because the camera was on a tight shot. Fox also had more HD content in their pregame shows than other networks in years past. That, combined with the plethora of HD commercials this year made it an HD lover's dream. And the DD 5.1 was terrific, too.

Thanks to all at KPTV for bringing this to us! BTW, I also have Comcast HD and chose to view it OTA as the Comcast picture was much darker and overall inferior to the OTA picture.

Bob

Phantom Gremlin,

Both the picture and sound quality were very very good. All 5 channels of DD sound were active and there were even some HD commercials to boot.

Say, since you're waiting 'till August, keep an eye on rapidly falling prices on Plasma and LCD TV's, among other kinds of HDTV. Should be able to get a great deal by then!

Hormoz

It looked superb after the stadium was in full lighting. I saw much of the "dancing grass" syndrome prior to 1/2 time with widefield shots, but it seemed like from 1/2 time on, the PQ was superb and dancing grass was almost non-existent. I'd rate them a 9 out of 10.

It would be hard to not be hooked on HD after the Superbowl yesterday.
Great picture, great sound, HD commercials, and an HD pre-game show too!!

Earl

I just recently got a rptv and put up a channel master 4228 saturday and am in love. I was in awe of superbowl. I did however notice I lost sound twice during the game. I am also losing channel 8 now and then pic and sound. I am wondering if this is normal. I did read back a few pages but with 170 pages I am not going read them all, so am just curious.

Digital signals can be finicky, you may want to try tweaking your antenna.

If your signal is strong you should have a pretty consistently good picture and sound unless your watching KOIN. The sound from CBS's network feed (and sometimes the local news) is really bad. The dialogue often comes out of all the speakers. All the other local channels have been pretty consistent with good quality sound and picture.

But some stations like KATU are still having trouble keeping the sound levels of their local programming in the same magnitude of their network programming. I think KGW and KPTV are having troubles with this too. I don't have any problems with KOIN's sound but I'm still using a ten year old Dolby surround sound amplifier instead of a 5.1 receiver. At least KOIN seems to have the drop outs solved.

Personally KGW is the worst for me simply because I cannot get it. Though all of the other channels come in fine and are flawless.

Wacky enough, KGW is by far the strongest station I receive. I think all the stations I pick up really well are in the cluster of towers to the north (KGW, KOPB, KPDX and KPTV) while the ones to the south (KATU and KOIN) are weaker. In my case this is because a nearby 14 story concrete building blocks my line of sight to the southern part of the west hills. I still receive those stations very well, probably through the building's windows.

So the bottom line for chronos69 is: there is no certainty of a pure, steady, unflinching HD signal just about no matter what you do. You learn to live with the state of the technology such as it exists today in PDX. You can, and probably will, spend countless hours tweaking and adjusting your setup to eliminate as many variables as can be controlled by you. But the signal providers - local stations as well as their network feeds - are continually making their own adjustments that will necessitate further tweaks. Then there is the weather, seasonality (leaves on trees), our varied geography, multipath, time of day, etc. that will also affect your reception. It's not quite "plug n' play", yet.

The one thing you almost never can get a true handle on is whether a problem you see is only yours or if there is a wrinkle in the transmission. That where the value of posting in AVS to this PDX thread is especially a good start to troubleshooting. The folks here are friendly, knowledgeable and always ready to help.

I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on your fire for HD. There have been vast improvements over the past 2 years I have been dealing with this and more will come along in the future. It gets better and better all the time. If you approach your HD as another hobby I'm sure you'll derive many hours of pleasure from it. Enjoy! :p And, as always, YMMV.

Bob

I'm VERY HAPPY with the service we have in the portland area and am very appreciative of all those that spending countless hours keeping things going for us early adopters. Sound level changes are a nuisance but you are right Bob, it's so much better than what we've had in the past. Remember mono, flat limited frequency response and very compressed broadcast of the past... Wow what a difference. :) Now if we could just get FOX to turn down the special effects of "American Idle" a tad. It sometimes make me jump out of my seat....

Originally posted by glz
Remember mono, flat limited frequency response and very compressed broadcast of the past... Wow what a difference. :) Now if we could just get FOX to turn down the special effects of "American Idle" a tad. It sometimes make me jump out of my seat.... Actually I've been using that bad old compressing on my end to flatten out these wild changes in volume!

I think the problem may be that some stations are still using the same volume compression they've been doing for twenty years to punch up the sound of their local broadcasts and commercials. This sounded fine coming from the four inch speaker on my 26" Quasar but it's not doing me a favor now.

You guys oughta move out of them thar hills and come on down into the valley, reception's fantastic down here.

No no NOOOO!! Lost is LOST! C'mon, KATU, please please please please…

Same here on Comcast. Continual breakups, unwatchable. But the pic on SD 4 is also unbwatchable. What to do????

Edit: Last segment came thru OK. Hope it holds!

Well, the good news was that their 5.1 audio seemed to be working for awhile... then something else went terribly wrong! Now we're getting "Alias" in SD after the dreaded glitch monster attacked again.

At least it was back in HD in time for the riveting "Charlie with the Copier" flashback.

Alias was totally fried, I get home at 8:45 wed nights and watch Alias live and it was all F**d up. I had to switch between analog and digital about 5 times just to catch the show. I hope Alan gets a handle on the problem soon, this is getting old.

My guess is that it had something to do with their 5.1 audio. There was a stream of AC3 packet errors (but no MPEG packet errors) just before every video glich like they were causing something to reset.

Why always on Wednesdays, KATU? I'm trying trying trying to like Alias this season. Don't make me watch American Idol!

Yeah, my speakers popped pretty loud everytime this happened. After about the 5th time, I switched to analog. Wed & Sunday are the only times I watch KATU, and Wed does seem like the big screwup day.

Oh well, I was trying to archive Alias to DVD, I guess I'll just have to break down and purchase Season 4 like I did 1-3.

Did anyone else notice really faint audio that didn't seem to fit in with the show (Alias) coming from the rear speakers for a few minutes, during one of the really horrid periods that caused KATU to drop back to the SD feed?

A friend, who has very little experience with HD, drove all the way in from Hillsboro to watch LOST and Alias last night since I've been bragging up how cool HD is. It was certainly a less than auspicious introduction... :(

Earl

I am sending a note to KATU via their web site feedback about the continual problems we have been experiencing, esp. on Sun. and Wed. nights. (Like marissadad, those are about the only times I watch ABC, so there may be other shows affected, but who knows?) I would encourage you all to do the same.

I emailed Allan directly 3 weeks ago & again today.

LOL, he's going to hate us all, I already mailed him this morning too.



so there may be other shows affected, but who knows?
You can add NYPD Blue on Tues. nights too

Earl

Just like I'm sure Lee Wood is starting to hate me for constantly whining here about the PLII issues too. But you know, it really gets frustrating. I'm sure it is for them too but what do you do? After 3+ years of this I'd sure as heck like to see the DTV "transition" come to a friggin' end one of these years... :rolleyes:

ron

This is just note from someone watching the ABC HD programs in another West coast market. I watched NYPD Blue Tuesday and Lost last night and both programs were fine, 5.1 and all, here watching KXTV Sacramento. Whatever you are seeing up there it is not a problem with the ABC network feed.

Thanks Rory, the problems we're having do seem to be local issues.

I agree with you Ron, it's frustrating all around.
I wonder how much of the equipment is reaching its end of life. As we know, computers and related software seem to be only current for the moment they are produced and quickly pale in comparison to what's new. Since KATU, KOIN, and KGW were fairly early with DTV we may have a while to wait for the "transition" to end.
Other than their PSIP going down pretty often, KPTV and KPDX have been pretty solid lately as has KWBP and KOPB.

Earl

I wonder how much of the equipment is reaching its end of life?I'd say a fair bit of it is long past it's "expiration" date already ;)

Since KATU, KOIN, and KGW were fairly early with DTV we may have a while to wait for the "transition" to end.Well, what I meant was that once DTV is the sole "source", they will have no choice but to invest in competent equipment and redundant systems for backup. Could you imagine the uproar there would have been if KATU's analog signal crapped out right in the middle of LOST last night with no backup? They just can't afford to allow that kind of thing happen. I had really hoped that once Comcast started carrying the local HD feeds it would provide enough complaining viewers that it would in-cent the stations to outfit properly. But sadly, apparently there's still far too few of us to make a difference. Seems we will be stuck in DTV purgatory until the analog shut off. It's a drag of a catch-22 for everyone concerned. Then all the people without DTV converters can begin complaining instead :D

ron

At least ABC is rerunning Lost often enough that those of us who want to have all the episodes archived to DVD in HD should be able to do it. I don't know about Alias though.

But if Alan doesn't get his DD 5.1 encoder fixed we may be into next season without a quality show to record. Is it too early to worry about MNF? The one salvation is that it's a lot easier to watch football with no sound than a drama. I have piped in my analog audio from KATU while I watch the HD pic. Some lip sync problems to get past but at least you hear it all.

Perhaps a stupid OTA question, but I am in the West Hills. I wondered if I could get the HD channels and so I hooked an old UHF antenna to my TV. CH 49 is OK, etc., but the HD channels are just not there. Is there a way to tell, with SD TV's if HD will come in?

TIA

Originally posted by mpsan
Is there a way to tell, with SD TV's if HD will come in?Not really; its an entirely different signal and will either work or not work (as opposed to analog signals which might "sort of" work). If you have a relatively straight shot at the towers on Sylvan hill, you should be OK.

Thank you for the fast reply. That is what I thought. I am close, just off Saltzman, near Thompson, but towers are hidden here. Still, I get strong SD UHF, but with lots of ghosts here. I asked Comcast if a CableCard would give me the local stations with my analog service and someone said yes, then someone else said no, I needed to upgrade to Digital. Every time I call I get different info and prices! I am starting to think that I should hold off for a bit longer on HD....at least in our area.

Originally posted by bdb
Not really; its an entirely different signal and will either work or not work (as opposed to analog signals which might "sort of" work). If you have a relatively straight shot at the towers on Sylvan hill, you should be OK.

mpsan, rule of thumb is: if you can get the analog signal, there's a good chance you will also get the digital signals. It's just that with analog, you can have a wavy, snowy, grainey picture going in and out, but with digital, you either have it or you don't.

mpsan,

For some reason I get the impression you do not have an HD tuner.

Which HD tuner due you have? Does your SD tv have a cablecard slot?

OK, so I do get the normal UHF, so I may have a good chance.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Marissadad
mpsan, rule of thumb is: if you can get the analog signal, there's a good chance you will also get the digital signals. It's just that with analog, you can have a wavy, snowy, grainey picture going in and out, but with digital, you either have it or you don't.

Yes, that is correct. I do NOT have an HD set yet. Just wanted to see if OTA signal would work where I am, but confirmed there is no way to tell without an HD Tuner.

Thank you.


Originally posted by lewlew
mpsan,

For some reason I get the impression you do not have an HD tuner.

Which HD tuner due you have? Does your SD tv have a cablecard slot?

Has anyone happened to hear back from Alan at KATU yet?

Originally posted by mpsan
Perhaps a stupid OTA question, but I am in the West Hills. I wondered if I could get the HD channels and so I hooked an old UHF antenna to my TV. Go over to Antenna Web (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx), punch in your address and it will tell you what you need to receive OTA broadcasts.

Hey folks,

Droppng back by here briefly to let folks know that we've found (with the alertness of a couple of AVS Forum members, I might add) some previously unnoticed problems with the PSIP data transmission on KPTV-DT and KPDX-DT.

Essentially, we've got a wierd bug in the application that pushes the PSIP data in to the final MPEG stream that sometimes causes the data to completely disappear - thus, no program guide at all on either station. Unfortunately, the application thinks it's working fine, so we never see any errors or warnings come up, so the problem had existed for a while and had escaped our maintenance checks.

We check it every morning now by tuning in the stations with an LG receiver. We continue to work with the equipment manufacturer to figure out what's up. It's a relatively new issue, so we're a little befuddled right at the moment as to its cause.

We appreciate everyone patience.

Ed

Originally posted by earletp
Has anyone happened to hear back from Alan at KATU yet?

No, not yet to me anyway.

I did, and it said I was OK, but I can not see the towers. I am so close, but there is a slight hill in that direction that blocks the view. I am too close. Still, I do get the UHF SD stations, but with lots of ghosts.

Originally posted by scowl
Go over to Antenna Web (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx), punch in your address and it will tell you what you need to receive OTA broadcasts.

Originally posted by edwardewilliams
Hey folks,

Droppng back by here briefly to let folks know that we've found (with the alertness of a couple of AVS Forum members, I might add) some previously unnoticed problems with the PSIP data transmission on KPTV-DT and KPDX-DT.

Essentially, we've got a wierd bug in the application that pushes the PSIP data in to the final MPEG stream that sometimes causes the data to completely disappear - thus, no program guide at all on either station. Unfortunately, the application thinks it's working fine, so we never see any errors or warnings come up, so the problem had existed for a while and had escaped our maintenance checks.

We check it every morning now by tuning in the stations with an LG receiver. We continue to work with the equipment manufacturer to figure out what's up. It's a relatively new issue, so we're a little befuddled right at the moment as to its cause.

We appreciate everyone patience.

Ed Thanks for the update Ed. This kind of information is one of the many things that makes this thread great!! Good luck finding the bug!!

Earl

Originally posted by ridgefamus
No, not yet to me anyway.
Obviously not to me either. :)

mspan, Being that close you probably will get a usable signal, you may have to add an attenuator to help with mulipath though.


Earl

Thank you...I have hope. I am at a great elevation, too!

Originally posted by earletp
Obviously not to me either. :)

mspan, Being that close you probably will get a usable signal, you may have to add an attenuator to help with mulipath though.


Earl

Does anyone know if KPDX has been having any problems broadcasting "Enterprise" in High Definition? Apparently, edwardewilliams works for KPDX, so maybe he can fill me in.

For the last two weeks, my DVR, a Dish Network 921 appears to have recorded Enterprise in Standard Definition as indicated by black letterbox bars top and bottom. Prior to this, I was getting the DVR recordings without the black bars. There also were times when the black bars would be there for a few minutes after a commercial and then the program would suddenly go to full screen as if someone remembered to suddenly switch on the High Def signal.

On the other hand, the Dish Network DVR 921 has been flaky lately, so if KPTV has not been having any troubles, I need to troubleshoot the DVR. I know I can depend on Dish Network CSRs to blame this problem on the local broadcaster so that is why I would rather go to Dish Network and tell them with confidence that I have already ruled out that posibility.

Looks like some have posted the PAX 22 (KPDX) has begun broadcasting in digital on VHF channel 4. Does anyone know if there are any shows that are actually broadcast in High Definition?

I had to put my UHF antenna 40 feet up in the air to get all the channels with reliable signals because no one would agree to let me tear down the top of the hill (Too many houses and stuff on it).

I don't want to go through putting up a VHF antenna unless there is actually some content in High Def because I already get the SD Pax by satellite.

Originally posted by NoMoShocks
Does anyone know if KPDX has been having any problems broadcasting "Enterprise" in High Definition? Apparently, edwardewilliams works for KPDX, so maybe he can fill me in.

For the last two weeks, my DVR, a Dish Network 921 appears to have recorded Enterprise in Standard Definition as indicated by black letterbox bars top and bottom. Prior to this, I was getting the DVR recordings without the black bars. There also were times when the black bars would be there for a few minutes after a commercial and then the program would suddenly go to full screen as if someone remembered to suddenly switch on the High Def signal.

On the other hand, the Dish Network DVR 921 has been flaky lately, so if KPTV has not been having any troubles, I need to troubleshoot the DVR. I know I can depend on Dish Network CSRs to blame this problem on the local broadcaster so that is why I would rather go to Dish Network and tell them with confidence that I have already ruled out that posibility. Enterprise has been looking fabulous, and I don't recall seeing any issues with the Friday night broadcast. The Sunday night replay is not HD though, could that be what you're seeing?
No, PAX has no HD content and it's my understanding they won't be having any. As long as they are running four different feeds on their digital channel, they wouldn't have the room for it anyway.


KOIN's audio was so bad tonight, for the first time, I switched to the analog feed instead of watching JAG in HD. I did keep trying back and when I checked NUMBERS at 10:22 it was much better and I was able to watch the rest of it in HD.

Earl

I also tried watching Jag tonight and I ended up watching it on analog as well. I just hope that they fix that next time I watch that station. I am hopeing that soon very soon all station all the time go HD. Does anyone know when the fcc is requiring this or are they keep pushing the date back?

Oh and I did end up adj. my antenna much stronger reception now. In the 95% signal stregnth all but nbc, for some reason 84% go figure.

Originally posted by mpsan
I am close, just off Saltzman, near Thompson, but towers are hidden here. Still, I get strong SD UHF, but with lots of ghosts here. I asked Comcast if a CableCard would give me the local stations with my analog service and someone said yes, then someone else said no, I needed to upgrade to Digital. Every time I call I get different info and prices! I am starting to think that I should hold off for a bit longer on HD....at least in our area.

MPSAN
My experience may be of some help. I live 22 miles from the towers, but with a hill in the way. I am about 150 feet below the top of the hill which is about three to four blocks away. From what I have seen, Antennaweb.org did not seem to do a good job of taking the terrain into account.

My experience was that I had to get the antenna up high enough to get a ghost free signal in order to get a good digital signal. Here is a page authored by a transmitter technician who says that if the ghost image is to the right, you will almost certainly need an antenna that will reject the multiple - http://www.tvtower.com/hdtv_antenna_and_reception.html.

I tried a couple of the biggest antennas I could get with highest gain, but the one that ended up working the best for me was from a company called Antennas Direct model SR15 - http://www.antennasdirect.com/sr15_high_gain_yagi.htmif
Antennas Direct has a money back guarantee or exchange if the antennas don't work out.

The Zenith GEMDTV1 looks interpreting.

Also, unless something has changed, you do need to buy the $50 digital package with Comcast to get the local channels in HDTV, and last time I checked, they didn't have all the local channels included but that was a year ago. I wasn't satisfied with the quality of the Comcast HDTV signals either.

Originally posted by earletp
No, PAX has no HD content and it's my understanding they won't be having any. As long as they are running four different feeds on their digital channel, they wouldn't have the room for it anyway.

Earl [/B]

Thanks for your reply.
Can you tell me more about the four Pax feeds? Is there unique content on the four feeds, or are they time shifted duplicates.

I could not locate a Web page for KPXQ. Is there anywhere to get Guide information for the PAX feeds?

Larry

From reading this I take it that FOX is broadcasting just fine even though I have completely lost the signal, anyone else loose the signal as well?

Originally posted by chronos69
I am hopeing that soon very soon all station all the time go HD. Does anyone know when the fcc is requiring this or are they keep pushing the date back?


All-the-time HD would be the best, I would agree. But the FCC is not requiring stations to broadcast in HD. The future requirement is for all TV transmissions to be made digitally, which does not mean high definition. HD is transmitted digitally but not all digital transmissions are in HD. The shows you see on a digital station when viewed on a widescreen TV with black bars are typically non-HD digital transmissions. Some networks (NBC, FOX, PBS) broadcast widescreen non-HD content as well. See the HDTV FAQ under Special Areas at the top of this page for more information.

Thank you. I did not notice where the ghost was...early or late, timewise. I may have to wait. I still do not understand why there is so much confusion about Comcast! :D

At any rate, our next set will be HD and I will then have to go from there. Also, we are not able to put up antennas here or my Ham Antennas would be up long ago!

Originally posted by NoMoShocks
MPSAN
My experience may be of some help. I live 22 miles from the towers, but with a hill in the way. I am about 150 feet below the top of the hill which is about three to four blocks away. From what I have seen, Antennaweb.org did not seem to do a good job of taking the terrain into account.

My experience was that I had to get the antenna up high enough to get a ghost free signal in order to get a good digital signal. Here is a page authored by a transmitter technician who says that if the ghost image is to the right, you will almost certainly need an antenna that will reject the multiple - http://www.tvtower.com/hdtv_antenna_and_reception.html.

I tried a couple of the biggest antennas I could get with highest gain, but the one that ended up working the best for me was from a company called Antennas Direct model SR15 - http://www.antennasdirect.com/sr15_high_gain_yagi.htmif
Antennas Direct has a money back guarantee or exchange if the antennas don't work out.

The Zenith GEMDTV1 looks interpreting.

Also, unless something has changed, you do need to buy the $50 digital package with Comcast to get the local channels in HDTV, and last time I checked, they didn't have all the local channels included but that was a year ago. I wasn't satisfied with the quality of the Comcast HDTV signals either.

Originally posted by NoMoShocks
Looks like some have posted the PAX 22 (KPDX) has begun broadcasting in digital on VHF channel 4. Does anyone know if there are any shows that are actually broadcast in High Definition?

I had to put my UHF antenna 40 feet up in the air to get all the channels with reliable signals because no one would agree to let me tear down the top of the hill (Too many houses and stuff on it).

I don't want to go through putting up a VHF antenna unless there is actually some content in High Def because I already get the SD Pax by satellite.

After some searching I found what passes for a website for PAX 22:

http://www.pax.tv/stations/default.cfm?sti_id=39&siteid=50652

Tell us why you would even want that channel in SD let alone HD? I took it out of the list of channels I receive and don't miss it at all.

Originally posted by mpsan
I did, and it said I was OK, but I can not see the towers. I am so close, but there is a slight hill in that direction that blocks the view. I am too close. Still, I do get the UHF SD stations, but with lots of ghosts. You're a bit closer than I am, but in the general direction (I'm near Kaiser & Springville). There's a guy I know from work who lived in Bauer Woods and got a signal pretty easily.

You don't have to be able to SEE the towers as close as we are (I can't, and I get a fine signal), just have a somewhat straight shot. You might even have to attentuate the signal if you're getting a strong signal with dropouts.

MPSAN. If you own your own property, no one like a neighborhood CC&Rs or you local community can stop you from putting up the biggest antenna necessary to get a suitable Digital TV OTA signal. It is an FCC rule. When I put up my antenna, the Homeowner's Association wrote me a letter and mentioned calling lawyers, and I printed out the FCC regulations and waved them in their faces. If you do not own the property, then perhaps you cannot have a big TV antenna. Unfortunately, the FCC rule won't help with your HAM radio antenna as far as I know.

Originally posted by mpsan

At any rate, our next set will be HD and I will then have to go from there. Also, we are not able to put up antennas here or my Ham Antennas would be up long ago! [/B]

Gremlin, Thanks for digging up that PAX 22 web page. Why would I want PAX? Well, they have Harry and the Hendersons on Thursday the 17th. I like it when the Henderson's teenage daughter scolds the Big Foot for eating her prom corsage.

Originally posted by NoMoShocks
MPSAN. If you own your own property, no one like a neighborhood CC&Rs or you local community can stop you from putting up the biggest antenna necessary to get a suitable Digital TV OTA signal. He's only about 5 miles from the towers; he doesn't need a big antenna. I'm further away - in the same general direction - and I use an indoor antenna.

Originally posted by NoMoShocks
MPSAN. If you own your own property, no one like a neighborhood CC&Rs or you local community can stop you from putting up the biggest antenna necessary to get a suitable Digital TV OTA signal. The FAA may require you to put lights on it so planes won't crash into it! :D

Originally posted by NoMoShocks
Thanks for your reply.
Can you tell me more about the four Pax feeds? Is there unique content on the four feeds, or are they time shifted duplicates.

I could not locate a Web page for KPXQ. Is there anywhere to get Guide information for the PAX feeds?

Larry
Larry, my STB identifies the four PAX feeds as, (22-1) KPXG-DT, (22-2) PaxEast, (22-3) Worship, (22-4) Faith. Three of which I'm sure have unique content. I've not watched enough to know if KPXG-DT and "PaxEast" are timeshifted versions of the same or not. (the other two are obviously different)

I've not seen, nor have I really checked about a guide for all four.
PAX digital channel 4 is remapped to channel 22.

Earl

Great, we are in Bauer Woods Estates, at the TOP.

Originally posted by bdb
You're a bit closer than I am, but in the general direction (I'm near Kaiser & Springville). There's a guy I know from work who lived in Bauer Woods and got a signal pretty easily.

You don't have to be able to SEE the towers as close as we are (I can't, and I get a fine signal), just have a somewhat straight shot. You might even have to attentuate the signal if you're getting a strong signal with dropouts.

Well, the FCC created a rule...PRB1...that did allow for antennas being installed. The rule said that no town, etc. can say No Antennas. However, this did NOT stop CC&R's. After all, they said we signed them before we moved in. YES, we own this home. Anyway, I am sure I could put something small, like a UHF antenna, up somewhere if it would work.


Originally posted by NoMoShocks
MPSAN. If you own your own property, no one like a neighborhood CC&Rs or you local community can stop you from putting up the biggest antenna necessary to get a suitable Digital TV OTA signal. It is an FCC rule. When I put up my antenna, the Homeowner's Association wrote me a letter and mentioned calling lawyers, and I printed out the FCC regulations and waved them in their faces. If you do not own the property, then perhaps you cannot have a big TV antenna. Unfortunately, the FCC rule won't help with your HAM radio antenna as far as I know.



Gremlin, Thanks for digging up that PAX 22 web page. Why would I want PAX? Well, they have Harry and the Hendersons on Thursday the 17th. I like it when the Henderson's teenage daughter scolds the Big Foot for eating her prom corsage.

You could try something unassuming like a squareshooter if you're not too far away from the towers. I doubt anyone would even question a squareshooter, it doesn't even look like an antenna and you can mount it to the side of your house under an eave.

And you can hang a birdfeeder under it and tell everyone it's designed to attract cockatiels.

Hey guys, I rarely watch any SD programming and late last night I was ready to turn in and was flipping through the local digital stations and UPN and WB looked incredible for SD. Good job, guys, I wish all the local SD digital looked that good, I just might watch some.

I actually was going to sidemount a ham antenna that way. Eve is very far from side so need to make a sidemount.


Originally posted by Marissadad
You could try something unassuming like a squareshooter if you're not too far away from the towers. I doubt anyone would even question a squareshooter, it doesn't even look like an antenna and you can mount it to the side of your house under an eave.

Wow can KOIN's HD audio be any worse? Sounds like a bad mp3 encode.

The SD audio is normal.

Too bad the Grammy's would have rocked in HD and Surround Sound.

No kidding. I just checked here to see if it was just me. I changed to SD for the time being. Such a shame - I really enjoy watching the Grammys in HD.

Anyone witness the transition on KGW-DT at 8:00? I was watching the Blazers and at 8:00 they switched to Law & Order, as if nothing else was going on. I punched in Ch 8 analog and there were the Blazers. I thought, well that's cool. But then I thought some more and how at other stations it's like pulling teeth to get them to feed the digital. And KGW has this auto-switch thingy. So now I don't know what to think about how stations do their analog to digital transitions when programming dictates. Hmmmmm.

Man, I was really looking forward to enjoying the Grammys in HD tonight, now that I finally have an OTA tuner. Too bad I'm stuck in SD since the audio is so awful.

*sigh* Good going KOIN...

Does anyone have a phone number for the engineering dept at KOIN? I tried calling their main number and I can't seem to get there.

Originally posted by 123HDTV
Wow can KOIN's HD audio be any worse? Sounds like a bad mp3 encode.

The SD audio is normal.

Too bad the Grammy's would have rocked in HD and Surround Sound.
Oh MY Gosh, Can the audio get any worse... This really disappoints me. I've tried to be a supporter of CBS/KOIN but this network feed issue they have has got to get fixed. Even the commercials sound bad.
]KOIN, YOU'VE SPENT SO MUCH ON QUALITY HD EQUIPMENT, PLEASE ADDRESS THESE AUDIO PROBLEMS ASAP.

Even mono would be more acceptable than what's being broadcasted.

It's stuff like this that make me think about going back to Comcast... Oh wait, KOIN and it's fight with Comcast is the reason I spent a boat load of money switching to DirecTV and this expensive OTA HD receiver in the first place... Thanks KOIN, Now I feel especially stupid.

Well, I just talked to someone in the news department (I called and was transferred to engineering first with no answer so I called back and asked the person who answered the phone in news). They know about the audio problems, don't know what the problem is, but they are working on it. They did apologize FWIW.

Erin

Originally posted by APranger
Man, I was really looking forward to enjoying the Grammys in HD tonight, now that I finally have an OTA tuner. Too bad I'm stuck in SD since the audio is so awful.

*sigh* Good going KOIN...

I might have figured out a workaround for KOIN's nasty sounding audio. (Now I know what you guys mean... it sounds like it's being broadcast over a cell phone.) I switched my HDTV receiver over to the second audio channel ("Spanish") for the Grammys and it sounds normal (in English). (Try pressing "audio" if you have that button.) Still stereo of course but I can keep watching the great HD picture on 6.1.

Josh

The West coast CBS-HD feed out of LA via Dish is just fine. No audio problems at all. It's all KOIN's problem.

Steve

The "Spanish" audio channel is mono.
I tried switching my receiver to 87.7 FM - it works for KOIN audio but I have to deal with video lag.

I've got a Dish 921 and cannot figure out how to get the second audio program. Anyone have any ideas? It seems like it should be there, but I searched the dish forums and can't find a thing.

This just sucks we're all jumping through hoops trying to come up with a temporary workaround to an obvious KOIN problem. A problem they've known about for a long time but have chosen to take no corrective action. Thanks again KOIN...

Makes you wonder if they ever switch over to check the HD side of things.

I lived in the SF Bay Area for a few years and the CBS station there, KPIX, had similar sounding audio during HD broadcasts. They eventually fixed it. Perhaps KOIN could learn something by giving KPIX a call?

This is new, never sounds like this during CSI.

For the Language selection on a 921, Use Menu Button and then select "4 Preferecnces" and then "3 Languages" and then select your language. You can use arrow keys to move around the menu or just use the number pad by pressing Menu - 4 - 3.

Originally posted by ErinKG
Does anyone have a phone number for the engineering dept at KOIN? I tried calling their main number and I can't seem to get there.

I have been unable to get a direct line to the Engineer Dept, but you can call the news desk. I've done so a few times, with some success, usually whoever answers says something like 'the engineers are aware of the problem and are working on it' or 'I'll let the engineers know about the problem'.

CSI New York had the same audio problem the other night and after I called it was fixed within 5 or 10 minutes.

Tonight they actually transferred me to the Engineering Dept. I thought great we'll get the problem fixed for sure. But the engineer told me there was nothing wrong with the audio. I tried to explain that there was a problem and what it sounded like, and it was the same problem as CSI New York the other night and he finally said they would take a look, but he didn't sound very convincing, I think he just wanted to get rid of me.

Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't, but I'm going to call every time, because the squeeky wheel gets the grease. So I encourage everyone to call, so they know we are out here watching and listening and we expect quality audio and video.

Here is a link with some phone numbers.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4482057#post4482057

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Anyone witness the transition on KGW-DT at 8:00? It was funny. It switched to Law and Order, then back to the last minute of the Blazers, the back to Law and Order. I've heard they sometimes continue the Blazers game on 8-2 when they go past prime time NBC programming (God knows it can't look much worse on a subchannel) so I thought maybe this was a mix up... or maybe they thought the end of a really close Blazer game was more important than a year-old L&O rerun.

Originally posted by glz
This just sucks we're all jumping through hoops trying to come up with a temporary workaround to an obvious KOIN problem. I problem they've known about for a long time but have chosen to take no corrective action. Thanks again KOIN...

I don't believe this to be true. Just because they haven't been able to fix it doesn't mean they've chosen not to. Screaming red type isn't going to help either.
Lee Wood reads this thread and I'm sure he will be addressing the problem as soon as he finds it. His past actions have shown him to be a strong ally.

I won't deny it is frustrating though.

Earl

Originally posted by earletp
I don't believe this to be true. Just because they haven't been able to fix it doesn't mean they've chosen not to. Screaming red type isn't going to help either.
Lee Wood reads this thread and I'm sure he will be addressing the problem as soon as he finds it. His past actions have shown him to be a strong ally.

I won't deny it is frustrating though.

Earl I've read Lee threads and I agree, he sounds like a great guy and a strong ally, but I'm sure Lee doesn't speak for all of KOIN and it's management team. If the management team wanted to fix this issue, it would have been fixed by now. The audio problems (mainly from the network feed according to Lee) have been around and on this thread for a very long time. If this was a priority, management would have it fixed by now.

As for the bold red type, it's much easer to find when it's big and red. I want KOIN management to see it... It's been said many times here before and it's true. The squeaky wheel gets oiled. The fast way to get this fixed is to get someone in charge within KOIN that has the power to make this a priority do so. Not to make it a spare time "I'll look into it" type of issue.

I've never been one to soft-step around an issue. I want KOIN to make this a priority and fix it. I want them to know as a result of them not working out differences with Comcast I've spent real money just to be able to receive there HD signal OTA. And most importantly, I want them to know I'm a very frustrated and a disappointed customer. I want them to know and everyone else should want them to know. That's how things get addressed.

I'm not sorry for my "screaming red type." I want them to know with passion...

In general, It's when customers are not screaming is when vendors should really be concerned. Because at that point, the customer doesn't care anymore and is most-likely gone for good...

I agree, it's too bad the OTA HD is free or I'd really complain.

I respectfully disagree with you Robert regarding your concept of FREE OTA HD. While I don't pay a subscription fee for OTA signal I certainly wouldn't classify it as free. First I spent a good sum of money with local retailers to buy the equipment I need to view this signal. Second I know KOIN and CBS spent much more money to broadcast the signal. Third there are a lot of commercial advertisers out there that spend money every day to have their advertisments run on these free broadcasts. And finally the producers of the show have spent money producing the show in HDTV format.

It is important to note that the most signifigant of these to the broadcaster would probably be the advertising dollar. Obviously, those people who place ads with KOIN and CBS for the Grammy awards didn't care that their commercials sounded like crap and that those of us holding remotes had one more reason to change the channel or leave the room during the commercials. When advertisers stop spending their money with CBS/KOIN because they fear their commercials won't be seen due to poor quality then someone will sit up and take notice. Until then, we might just have to put up with the frustration of being ahead of the curve when it comes to technology.

P.S. I can't believe there aren't executives at KOIN that are watching their broadcasts in HDTV and wondering what the problem is.

Originally posted by discwog
Obviously, those people who place ads with KOIN and CBS for the Grammy awards didn't care that their commercials sounded like crap and that those of us holding remotes had one more reason to change the channel or leave the room during the commercials.This thread is very long so you might not have seen it yet, but it has been made clear that HD is not currently a profitable endeavor for the local stations. The vast majority of viewers are watching it via cable or sat, and the advertisers probably aren't all that concerned that a few percent of the viewers had to switch from HD...they probably aren't even aware of it. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of their executives don't get HD either (sometimes the lack of excitement among the execs is surprising; you'd think they'd all be TV - and HDTV - fanatics).

Yikes!! That was painful... After DHW ended I flipped over to check the end of the Grammys and I thought a kazoo band had invaded my living room :eek:. A really bad one...

So are the KOIN AUDIO PROBLEMS now spreading beyond PLII viewers as well? Before last night I was thinking they couldn't get any worse. Guess that was wrong. It's just pitiful. As far as Comcast goes, IF they had come to some kind of agreement with Emmis and had KOIN on, I'm guessing that problem last night would have been present over cable as well.

I think we need to start a letter writing campaign to the KOIN station GM. Lee can only do so much with the limited resources he has to work with. It's the stingy mgmt and ownership that are handcuffing him and shortchanging the DTV viewers. Be sure to give support for Lee and don't forget to mention that they are being seriously shamed by such local powerhouses as The WB32 and UPN49.

ron

Yikes!! That was painful... After DHW ended I flipped over to check the end of the Grammys and I thought a kazoo band had invaded my living room . A really bad one...
I've been having trouble figuring how best to describe KOIN's audio since last Friday and this is the best description I can think of.
I do think it's great that so many more people have posted about it so there should be little doubt it is not just confined to a select HT configuration and is effecting everyone.
I still feel that quantity of voices is more likely to gain attention than the volume of them but hey, if it gets their attention so they listen, do whatever it takes.
I've already sent e-mail voicing my opinion and I hope that several other people do too.

Earl

Don't think I was taking a shot at you or anything with the big fonts Earl. I was just havin' a little fun there :D. I think complaining here is pretty much folly anyway. Although it can be a little cathartic to express pent up frustrations to others who are having to endure the same trials and tribulations. I've also begun employing Primal Scream but I think the neighbors are beginning to wonder what's going on...

ron

Yeah, I agree it's theraputic to vent here as well as to determine "you're not alone". But I think the real expressions of frustration need to be passed along to KOIN management via their web site feedback tool. Perhaps a note to Emmis would help as well. Especially to support Lee and his apparent inability to get the funding necessary to fix whatever it is that has broken; and maybe also to throw in a pitch to get him a DD 5.1 encoder since CBS is making a deal about its 5.1 audio for CSI and such. All of that leaves a pretty strategic market like PDX in the hinterlands of digital TV with the CBS affiliate not playing its part.

Bob

No problem Ron, it made me laugh. :D

Earl

Originally posted by mpsan
Well, the FCC created a rule...PRB1...that did allow for antennas being installed. The rule said that no town, etc. can say No Antennas. However, this did NOT stop CC&R's. After all, they said we signed them before we moved in. YES, we own this home. Anyway, I am sure I could put something small, like a UHF antenna, up somewhere if it would work.

mpsan,

This is NOT TRUE.

You are confusing the FCC limited pre-emption of ordinances against things like Ham antennas, PRB1, with the Over The Air Reception Device Rule (OTARD).

PRB1 does not apply to CC&R's, as you observed. However, OTARD was written under the direction of Congress, as part of the 1996 Telecommunications Act. As Federal Law, OTARD trumps everything (other than the U.S. Constitution), including CC&R's.

Esssentially, that portion of the CC&R is invalid and uninforcible, whether or not you signed it. It has the same legal status as if, for example, the CC&R had specified that you can't have any guests who are racial minorities (the 1964 Civil Rights Act stopped that nonsense).

See the link on my signature for the FCC information page on OTARD. If you own your home, feel free to put up whatever TV antenna you want.

Barry0,
Thanks for backing me up on this. I didn't persue it any more since the consensus seemed to be that an outdoor antenna would not be necessary for MSPAN's situation, but my main point was to let anybody reading this know that if they own their own property, they may put up whatever antenna is necessary to recieve a descent OTA television signal. I don't think the FAA requires any lighting unless it is over 250 feet, but I am no expert on this aspect of things.

One thing that is lacking in the FCC rules it that they don't require your neighbors to like you after you point out that the FCC rules superceeds the CC&R rules. We ended up without many friends in the neighborhood where I put up a 20 foot antenna, and so that house is now a rental and we moved back to our old place where I need a 40 foot antenna and we don't have close friends here either.

Just received a reply from Lee Wood at KOIN to my email to KOIN about last night's Grammy sound problems. Lee is always the gentleman and spoke to the commitment KOIN has to the (admittedly) limited HD crowd and their leadership in digital programming over the past 5 years. He said the problem appears to be in the stereo track CBS embeds in the HD video for stations (like KOIN) that can't decode the DD 5.1 track. He is working with CBS engineering to solve this. He suggests turning off Pro Logic and listening in Stereo mode. I guess that would have been easy enough to try last night.

I copied Emmis in my email and asked that they provide KOIN with the right tools via budget so they can fully represent the CBS product here in Portland.

Bob

Originally posted by ridgefamus
He suggests turning off Pro Logic and listening in Stereo mode.

That's what I end up doing. It seems quite a few channels I see have content which confuses my PLII decoders. Fortunately, it's easy to toggle the decoder in my receiver on and off.

Thanks to Lee for an explanation.

I did try both Dolby as well as Stereo on my Sony XBR with built-in tuner...the sound was annoying enough to my wife that we switched back over to the DirecTV SD broadcast.

The best way to describe the sound was that it had a tinny ring to most of the music as well as voice content. Depended on where we sat in our family room.

<soapbox on>
Local stations have exclusive use of the broadcast slots for digital and traditional analog broadcasts. The FCC has requirements for these stations if they want to keep their licenses. All are required to have digital broadcasts; they are not required to have HD broadcasts, as I'm sure has been mentioned in this thread previously.

The stations get their revenue from advertisers.

The way to get management attention, is through the advertisers first and viewers second. If there are fewer or no advertisers, then the station cannot continue for very long.

It is essentially a regulated monopoly, since there aren't too many enterprises waiting in the wings to take over the channels. The stations have little to worry about near term because no one can step right in. The only competition are the other channels.

The tact I have taken in the past is to let advertisers know why I was no longer supporting a station. Back when Emmis refused to let DirecTV carry KOIN, I wrote letters to management as well as advertisers to let them know how foolish it was to leave viewers behind. Our limited viewing time simply went to other stations.

A show has to be pretty darn good for one to overcome all the obstacles Emmis, KOIN, and CBS place in front of us. So you can imagine what happens when attempts to watch are obstructed - we go elsewhere!!!

There is no way that Lee can ever tell us what he really thinks - remember, he is doing the best he can. He can't do his job effectively if management does not provide him with the right tools and equipment. I'm sure none of the technical people want to put out a crappy broadcast. (Perhaps the execs were watching Desperate Housewives, which did much better in the ratings last night)

Perhaps someday KOIN and Emmis can send us all an email when everything has been debugged and worked out - just in case we stop paying attention. I welcome it to "mike at mihalik dot com"

Final thought - anyone want to chip in to run a advertisement in the Oregonian? Perhaps we can reach advertisers and viewers
- some things we might want to say:
--- expose the Emmis position on carriage of KOIN on Comcast (make that lack of carriage)
--- promising one thing for over-the-air, and delivering something else
--- letting the KOIN advertisers know how things really are

There are only a few squeaky wheels present on this forum. I am sure there are many more, computer illiterate people in the Portland Metro area who would want to join in on a protest, and perhaps a letter writing campaign to KOIN advertisers.

The other stations have figured out how to make viewers happy; perhaps with a big enough incentive, KOIN can too.

Time to go back under my rock.
<soapbox off>

Note: if anyone at KOIN wants to contact me...send me a PM

Mike

I shut mine off but it still sounded like crap, SAP was out of sync as well.

I cannot believe that the equipment or software to properly decode DD5.1 from the network feed could be all that expensive for KOIN after all they have invested for the digital transmission equipment.

Originally posted by mmihalik
I'm sure none of the technical people want to put out a crappy broadcast. (Perhaps the execs were watching Desperate Housewives, which did much better in the ratings last night)

--- letting the KOIN advertisers know how things really are



And KATU had its familiar audio problems presenting DHW and Boston Legal last night. So I guess I need to familiarize myself more with the offerings on WB and UPN.;)

It's unfortunate that the typical response from the broadcasters (Lee, included) is that the digital/HD audience is still so small that whatever stink we raise will be lost in the wind. This argument is especially appropriate for KOIN since they don't have the Comcast distribution, and I'm not going into that vicious circle. Until Neilsen measures the digital side of things, I'm afraid this minority has little power for pursuasion. We're better off just staying on the good side of the group of cooperative engineers who try their best for us.

Yes, it came about first when people wanted to put up a dish. I knew that Ham and TV were not the same, but did not know the other rules name.

Thank you.


Originally posted by BarryO
mpsan,

This is NOT TRUE.

You are confusing the FCC limited pre-emption of ordinances against things like Ham antennas, PRB1, with the Over The Air Reception Device Rule (OTARD).

PRB1 does not apply to CC&R's, as you observed. However, OTARD was written under the direction of Congress, as part of the 1996 Telecommunications Act. As Federal Law, OTARD trumps everything (other than the U.S. Constitution), including CC&R's.

Esssentially, that portion of the CC&R is invalid and uninforcible, whether or not you signed it. It has the same legal status as if, for example, the CC&R had specified that you can't have any guests who are racial minorities (the 1964 Civil Rights Act stopped that nonsense).

See the link on my signature for the FCC information page on OTARD. If you own your home, feel free to put up whatever TV antenna you want.

Originally posted by ridgefamus
...I guess I need to familiarize myself more with the offerings on WB and UPN.;)

... We're better off just staying on the good side of the group of cooperative engineers who try their best for us.

Good points. No need to vent to Lee and the other engineers. They are likely doing the best they can, with the resources provided.

Just need a way to get the execs motivated. Perhaps a luminary, or some other important muckey muck could express their disappointment to KOIN or Emmis management.

Or perhaps an FCC edict for quality standards.

Though we need to be careful what we wish for.

Imagine the possibilities of spectrum utilization if the NAB had not lobbied so hard for SHIVA. As we all remember, it was SHIVA that prevents us from getting the out-of-market channels. Then we would truly have some competition serving viewers.

Without SHIVA restrictions, we could pick up HD and SD broadcasts from the few markets that got it RIGHT!

Mike

Check out 24 on FOX-12 HD 9PM tonight, great 5.1 digital sound

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Just received a reply from Lee Wood at KOIN to my email to KOIN about last night's Grammy sound problems. Lee is always the gentleman and spoke to the commitment KOIN has to the (admittedly) limited HD crowd and their leadership in digital programming over the past 5 years. He said the problem appears to be in the stereo track CBS embeds in the HD video for stations (like KOIN) that can't decode the DD 5.1 track. He is working with CBS engineering to solve this. He suggests turning off Pro Logic and listening in Stereo mode. I guess that would have been easy enough to try last night.

I copied Emmis in my email and asked that they provide KOIN with the right tools via budget so they can fully represent the CBS product here in Portland.

Bob When KOIN's audio is acting up there's no setting on my receiver including stereo that helps. Even turning it off and going with the built-in speakers and TV audio there is the kazoo band audio.
This is recent and different than the problems that having been plaguing the audio in the past.

Earl

I agree, switching to "stereo" mode does not help at all. But why did the last minute (after I watched "24") of "2 men and a kid" or whatever it is sound okay while "CSI: Bikini" at 10PM sounds awful?

Could it be that CSI is sent from CBS with a 5.1 track and 2 Men is just stereo? From what I gathered in Lee's response to me, it is the 5.1 that is most problematic for the equipment KOIN has. Write him: lwood@koin.com

I didn't see any KOIN last night. I went from 24 to Medium. And, even though KGW doesn't have a 5.1 ability either (does NBC at all?), the PL effect is tremendous on Medium's theme music at the beginning.

I sent an email to KOIN regarding the audio issue. I received an email back from Lee Wood. It did not directly address all my concerns (it was a long email) but rather focused on one program (the grammy awards). It basically says the same thing he has said here on the forum. He suggests switching my audio gear to stereo and implies it's not there problem but is the stereo network mixed feed from CBS. Hum, has anyone noticed the commercials and what seems like some local broadcast having the same issues? Oh well, we all know how well the switching to stereo works...

Here is Lee's response;

You emailed concerning the audio during the CBS HD broadcast of the Grammy Awards. First, let me assure you that we at KOIN do care about the quality of our broadcast product even though the high definition audience is still relatively small. This is why KOIN has provided services like the Electronic Program Guide, Closed Captions and alternative audio services since we began broadcasting digitally over 5 years ago. Most other local stations are only now adding these services.

The problem with CBS-HD audio seems to stem from the way they are sending us a mixed down version their Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround audio. Since KOIN began HDTV service well before CBS added 5.1 audio a year ago we do not have the equipment at this time to pass it along to our viewers. CBS provides us with a stereo audio mix that is embedded in the HDTV video. We pass this stereo audio directly through our facility along with the video. It is never extracted or processed. It is a direct pass-through.

There appears to be something in the way CBS is mixing the stereo feed from programming that originates in 5.1 surround that creates the distortions you have heard. It also appears from viewer comments that this problem exists when the audio is decoded using a Dolby ProLogic decoder to simulate surround sound.

I have passed many of the comments I received along to CBS Engineering in the hope that they will be able to use the information to find the problem and get it fixed.

Until CBS is able to identify and correct the problem you may be able reduce or eliminate the effect by operating your receiving equipment in a 'Stereo' mode rather than a 'ProLogic' mode.

Sincerely,

Lee Wood


Lee A. Wood
Director of Engineering
KOIN-TV / KOIN-DT

222 SW Columbia St.
Portland, OR 97201

Phone: 503-464-0664
Email: lwood@koin.com
Fax: 503-464-0889

An Emmis Television Station
GreatMedia, GreatPeople, GreatService

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Could it be that CSI is sent from CBS with a 5.1 track and 2 Men is just stereo? From what I gathered in Lee's response to me, it is the 5.1 that is most problematic for the equipment KOIN has. Write him: lwood@koin.com Did we get the same reply ?

Yes, and I wouldn't doubt that Lee drafted it while he switched back and forth Sunday night between Grammy's and DHW. Just kidding, Lee! :-)

Well, I'm glad it's not just me then with the KOIN audio problems. I don't have surround sound yet, so I have problems with the TV speakers. I just took the HDTV plunge in January and it's frustrating to see this kind of issue has been occuring for quite some time now.

I emailed Lee about 10 minutes ago and got a response within a few minutes. It seems they swapped the CBS supplied satellite decoder and it may have solved the most recent audio problems. Here's his response:


Jim,

During Tuesday's "Young and Restless" we were able to hear some distortion that we did not hear during Monday's program. We traced the origination to the CBS provided satellite decoder. We have swapped decoders and that seems to have removed the "broken tweeter" effect. We do not know if this will resolve the Dolby 5.1 issues as well. Please continue to monitor CBS HDTV programming, especially those produced with 5.1 surround sound, and let me know how things sound.

Thank you for your patience.

Lee

I think you guys have made Lee wary of posting on the site or maybe he is allowing you to just post for him.

Please, please (knocking on wood here), let this be the source of all the audio strangeness from them recently and not just the most recent "broken tweeter", kazoo band etc issue. I'll be happy as heck if the "all channel stereo" from the 5.1 shows is fixed and I'd be "X-static" if the static-y sound from the local programming is gone too. Without getting home to check I'm giving the ACS about a 50/50 chance of being fixed and the static a 10/90 longshot....

hilladen, I think he figured out a long time ago that if he stays cloaked he doesn't have to answer questions about things he has no control over or can't/doesn't have the time to trace down. Can't blame him really.

ron

Lee will get a break tomorrow when we all focus on Alan, Lost, and Alias. :D

Earl

Originally posted by jimsiff
I emailed Lee about 10 minutes ago and got a response within a few minutes. It seems they swapped the CBS supplied satellite decoder and it may have solved the most recent audio problems. Here's his response:
I got the same response. I've got my fingers crossed. I'm very happy to see the quick response from Lee and KOIN. The Squeaky wheel does gets oil. I'm not sure our efforts put some fire under this issue but thank you all for writing in to KOIN.

Please, please (knocking on wood here)

Was that a pun?

Halfway through NCIS, and no kazoo's. :)

Lee Wood & KOIN management staff,
THANK YOU!!! :D