Go to antennaweb.org, put in your data and you'll see. I bet you will get the Portland stuff and possibly other locations as well depending on how you aim your antenna. Portland direction would have the most stations. Not all stations are listed but you'll get the idea of what you can do and the type of antenna to go for. Remember if you want 2-13 and 14 thru 69, including the hd digital ( 2.1, 6.1, 8.1 etc. remapped from 43, 40, 46 etc.), you will need both a uhf and vhf antenna or most likely a combo antenna. Also read thru the old posts on this forum and you'll learn a lot.
As far as your second question- with the Direct TV HR10-250 receiver you would get the UHF stations only( including the digital hd stations ota) but you would not be able to record them(TIVO) unless the reciever is connected to a Sat dish and an ota antenna. I don't know about any of the other units. The HR10-250 does not do channels 2-13.
Rich

I noticed that Monsters Inc is supposed to be shown in HD on ABC this coming Saturday. Does anyone have any contacts at KATU? I sent them a note to the programming department. KATU has been notorious for not flipping the switch and we have been shown the Disney programs in SD while most of the country is watching stunning HD. I just want to make sure they don't screw it up once again.

Thanks

I was disappointed in CBS/KOIN football today for a number of reasons. Can anyone explain these?

1) late game was Buffalo @ Oakland, not the marquee game of Denver @ NY Giants. We're at least 600 miles from Oakland. Are they considered a "home" team for us? Why do we have to watch those losers play? Is this a CBS thing or an NFL thing or did KOIN make this decision? At least this year Seattle is doing well, so I don't mind watching them.

2) Buffalo @ Oakland wasn't in HD. I noticed a CBS promo in the early game and it indicated that only Denver @ Giants would be in HD. Why? Is it that much more expensive to produce a game in HD? How can the country be ready for a transition if the NFL (which is a perfect situation for HD) and the networks aren't signing up?

3) Would the NFL Sunday Ticket from DirecTV have this game in HD?

Thanks in advance for any comments on this.

CBS actually shows only a few games in HD each week. Which is too bad since their broadcasts are usually stunning. They also think that we are in the Oakland market for some reason and they show their games more often then not. Unfortunately, Oakland isn't considered good enough for HD for the most part.

NFL Sunday Ticket doesn't broadcast in HD. I have seen a couple games on their HD channels in the 90s but most of the game are only in SD.

Is anyone else getting a lot of breakups of Fox OTA? I know NBC is having their troubles with Skypath.. but Fox is usually rock solid.

I've been watching OTA for an hour with no corrupt packets at all. KPTV always comes in perfectly for me.

With the wind, the rain, and the falling leaves I was unable to get much in the way of HD last night. 123 HDTV, perhaps you had some trees swaying in the wind last night?

I also watched the last ten or fifteen hours of the game and didn't have a single glitch. Yes, I'm line of sight to the north towers.

When NBC/KGW had their problems Mon. night, I was recording Surface and Medium from HD Comcast. The resulting recordings are just as bad as what people are describing they saw OTA. Makes sense as Comcast merely passes through what they get from the local station and should be equal to the best local reception OTA (minus compression). I had no problems watching the ballgame via Comcast last night. So I'd have to deduce that breakups seen OTA were a problem between the local source (KPTV) and the receiver. Take your pick - rain, leaves, trees, poor antenna aim - all reasons I choose to put up with Comcast when I think I might have a problem OTA. Oh, and the HD recording capability ;) .

Thanks for your replies... armed with that ammunition I went outside and found that the connector at the antenna end had rusted and cracked.. why it only gave a problem on KGW and Fox I don't know but it's back to normal now.

Thanks again for the quick replies

So if I go onto craigslist or EBay and buy a used direct TV HD receiver, it will function as an HD receiver (without actually having direct tv service) I could get all of the local HD OTA channels?

Sorry for asking this again, I just want to be sure.

Yes, but the program guide will not display any information as that comes from D*.


ron

So if I go onto craigslist or EBay and buy a used direct TV HD receiver, it will function as an HD receiver (without actually having direct tv service) I could get all of the local HD OTA channels?



Yes, I have the Sony SAT-HD200 Directv HD receiver, and only use it for OTA HD reception (using an attic-mounted antenna). I have never subscribed to Driectv, but as was mentioned above, you will not see the programming guide or info.

I must tell you that its OTA-HD tuner seems to be better than some others, including one of the Dishnetwork ones that I recently compared with.

HZ

I'm watching the SD/KC game and it struck me just how good the audio sounded.
Thanks again, Lee!!

Yes, the quality of KOIN's audio is superb. I think I've stated how much I enjoyed CSI (Las Vegas, esp.) for it's audio. But I am getting more and more annoyed by the continual blanks they shoot.

It seems every 10 - 15 minutes there is a silent 2 -3 seconds. Many times important dialog is lost. It's not so annoying during football games but I was annoyed by it while watching Threshold on Fri. night. This as been going on for a couple of weeks now. Anyone else? I need to write KOIN and express my displeasure.

Anyone have problems with KGW/NBC last night? I had a very flaky recording, and am trying to determine if this was KGW's fault or my own (which is likely).

I watched The West Wing last night on 8-1 at 8:00 and had no problems.


ron

Yes, the quality of KOIN's audio is superb. I think I've stated how much I enjoyed CSI (Las Vegas, esp.) for it's audio. But I am getting more and more annoyed by the continual blanks they shoot.

It seems every 10 - 15 minutes there is a silent 2 -3 seconds. Many times important dialog is lost. It's not so annoying during football games but I was annoyed by it while watching Threshold on Fri. night. This as been going on for a couple of weeks now. Anyone else? I need to write KOIN and express my displeasure.


I think we all have that problem.
I have an e-mail dated 9/14 where Lee comments on the short audio drops and says they're trying to find the source.
It must be hiding pretty darn good. ;)

I have NEVER seen a MNF game without audio issues. Last night there was no sound on HD for 5+ minutes!

What about last week? I heard absolutely no problems. And the week before? I don't remember any problems either. In fact I can't remember an audio problem as bad as last night's MNF. It sounded like they were trying to get their 5.1 sound working but gave up and fell back on stereo. They may have been using ProLogic Dolby but KATU's encoder destroys that when it's expecting 5.1 audio.

Well, last Monday on Comcast HD, there was no audio for at least 5 minutes.


What about last week? I heard absolutely no problems. And the week before? I don't remember any problems either. In fact I can't remember an audio problem as bad as last night's MNF. It sounded like they were trying to get their 5.1 sound working but gave up and fell back on stereo. They may have been using ProLogic Dolby but KATU's encoder destroys that when it's expecting 5.1 audio.

Well, last Monday on Comcast HD, there was no audio for at least 5 minutes.
But you said "I have NEVER seen a MNF game without audio issues".

Do you mean this was the first MNF you've seen? ;)

Well, last Monday on Comcast HD, there was no audio for at least 5 minutes.

Did you get equally incensed when the audio for the Blazers game tonight went silent for over 5 minutes? That wasn't even a digital broadcast and something went "wrong". After a while they did display "technical difficulties" to let all know it wasn't their TV. I checked both channel 8 and 708 on Comcast and flipped to my OTA feed of 8-1 as well. They all experienced the same problem. Maybe you missed it but that's what happened. It eventually got fixed - thanks KGW or whoever!

But a MNF audio burp gets folks all hot and bothered and I don't understand the lack of patience by the viewers. Sure it was to be a new segment lead-in for MNF and I'm sure everyone connected with the production was terribly disappointed it didn't come off as planned. Stuff happens. If it's repetitive and doesn't seem to get attention, that's another issue.

As someone who's occasionally been known to comment on audio problems (heh!!) I have to say that the audio on MNF is usually pretty good and problems are by far the exception, not the rule.

In fact burps, from all stations, seem to be much more infrequent than they were even two years ago. Almost dependable even. ;)
Just as I'm getting comfortable and taking things for granted however, something will happen to remind me this HD thing is still in its infancy though.... well maybe toddler stage now. :D hahaha!!

While we're speaking of KATU and audio issues...

I first noticed last Saturday night.... While I was making dinner I turned on Monsters, Inc in the living room and then when I actually sat down to eat I realized the dialog was spread out to the L/R mains like it always is on my system when KATU is not sending DD 5.1. So I dutifully went into my STB setup menu and manually switched to PCM audio output which allows matrixed sound and more or less corrects the problem. At the time I thought, "Monsters Inc not in 5.1?... Hmmm, something not right here..." and wondered if perhaps there was a problem with the network audio feed maybe. Then last night I flipped into the LOST repeat and found the same thing, grrr (I'm OUTRAGED!!!! ;) :D). So now I'm wondering if KATU has blown up there DD encoder once again? Or if the network changed something in their feed that KATU has not responded to? Or....? Whatever it is, I sure hope they get it straightened out before next weeks new LOST ep.


ron

Not at all! I do not see every one, but those that I have seen...do not start out well at all.


But you said "I have NEVER seen a MNF game without audio issues".

Do you mean this was the first MNF you've seen? ;)

That IS the issue...how many times does MNF have to start out with Audio issues on 702 with 2 OK?

Did you get equally incensed when the audio for the Blazers game tonight went silent for over 5 minutes? That wasn't even a digital broadcast and something went "wrong". After a while they did display "technical difficulties" to let all know it wasn't their TV. I checked both channel 8 and 708 on Comcast and flipped to my OTA feed of 8-1 as well. They all experienced the same problem. Maybe you missed it but that's what happened. It eventually got fixed - thanks KGW or whoever!

But a MNF audio burp gets folks all hot and bothered and I don't understand the lack of patience by the viewers. Sure it was to be a new segment lead-in for MNF and I'm sure everyone connected with the production was terribly disappointed it didn't come off as planned. Stuff happens. If it's repetitive and doesn't seem to get attention, that's another issue.

Hey, I looked back at all the MNF's I have archived from this season. The one from three weeks ago (October 17th) did start out in SD. That was the only other MNF problem I've found.

You archive MNFs?

Any particular reason?

Because I can! DVD-R's are cheap and it's great for impressing people who've never seen MNF in HD.

Except when there's no sound and the first ten minutes are in SD. :)

Seems to me the volume level on KOIN 6-1 for the Alabama game is higher (louder) than in past weeks. I also haven't noticed the periodic audio breakups. But have to admit I keep switching to 2-1 to watch the Ducks, primarily. :D Perhaps some adjustments have been made recently at KOIN.

Because I can! DVD-R's are cheap and it's great for impressing people who've never seen MNF in HD.

Man, if I had the capability I'd choose to record and show the SEC games from CBS. The PQ today from Miss. is fantastic, as is the 5.1! IMO MNF takes a back seat to CBS, consistently. ;)

I've noticed that the last two Notre Dame games on KGW 8-1 are supposed to be HDTV. It is widescreen, but it's not great HDTV. Nothing like the games on KOIN 6-1. Does anyone know if it's true HD or some converted transmission? NBC or KGW issue?

Does anyone know if it's true HD or some converted transmission?
Check to see if that dumb weather picture is being transmitted on 8-2 during the game. The morons who thought of that waste of bandwidth have obviously never heard of the Internet. I've got weather bookmarks for

cnn
noaa.gov
intellicast.com
weather.com
accuweather.com

Why would I possibly want KGW to degrade my HD so I could see NBC's version?

But still, if KGW is smart this is only stealing a few mbit/sec at most. Does anyone know how many? Probably not enough to seriously degrade the quality of the game.

I measure it at 1.68 Mbps which is about the same bitrate as their equally worthless SD subchannel (1.71 Mbps).

Both subchannels are so bit starved, they're barely watchable. The HD channel is 15.0 Mbps so they're flushing almost 4 Mbps down the toilet for no benefit I can think of.

Man, if I had the capability I'd choose to record and show the SEC games from CBS. The PQ today from Miss. is fantastic, as is the 5.1! IMO MNF takes a back seat to CBS, consistently. ;)
I can just barely fit a MNF game on two DVD-R's after converting it to MPEG-4. Unfortunately 1080i games take just a little bit more and I hate wasting a third DVD-R. :mad:

The MNF games are always good enough to impress people since my display is only 1366x768.

I can just barely fit a MNF game on two DVD-R's after converting it to MPEG-4. Unfortunately 1080i games take just a little bit more and I hate wasting a third DVD-R. :mad:

The MNF games are always good enough to impress people since my display is only 1366x768.


what kind of tv do you have? And for everyone - - I just got DirecTv and I am going to purchase a HD tv soon... my question is what HD Satellite Receiver with DVR would you recommend I purchase? I was going to buy the one that DirecTV sells but if there is a better one at an electornics store you all recommend, then I would consider that. Thanks!

what kind of tv do you have?
A 37" Sharp Aquos LCD from a couple of years ago. It's a good size and resolution for viewing 6-8 feet away. Most people don't understand why I have such a huge screen so close to my face and assume I'm going blind but HD and SD (like DVD's) pretty much look the same any farther away.

what kind of tv do you have? And for everyone - - I just got DirecTv and I am going to purchase a HD tv soon... my question is what HD Satellite Receiver with DVR would you recommend I purchase? I was going to buy the one that DirecTV sells but if there is a better one at an electornics store you all recommend, then I would consider that. Thanks!

If I'm not mistaken, you need to have the box that DirecTV (D*) sells or that you can get at places like Circuit City that have the D*-type receivers. These boxes accept the ID card that D* gives you as a subscriber. I don't know of anything that takes the D* cards that doesn't have the D* stamp of approval. So I think you're limited to the DVR that comes with those receivers. There may be stand-alone DVRs that would work with a satellite setup but you would still need to get the satellite receiver that works with DirecTV anyway. If you look for an HDTV that has a built-in HD tuner, you may find that you can supplement your D* channels with local HD that D* cannot provide. Happy HD viewing - it's fantastic! Welcome to the Forum.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe all D* HD boxes have also included ATSC-OTA tuners from the beginning.

Has anybody been getting DD 5.1 from 2-1 in the last couple weeks? I thought I'd search around through the thread for Alan's em addy and ask him about it, but I wanted to verify that it's not just me first...


ron

A 37" Sharp Aquos LCD from a couple of years ago. It's a good size and resolution for viewing 6-8 feet away. Most people don't understand why I have such a huge screen so close to my face and assume I'm going blind but HD and SD (like DVD's) pretty much look the same any farther away.

At 8 feet, DVD and HD should look pretty much the same. That's 5.2 screen heights away. Even 6 feet, at 3.9 screen heights, is a bit far (but not too bad.)

I've found the ideal distance based on screen height formula is a decent general guideline but not an absolute rule because it assumes all content will effectively use the maximum resolution of your display. For fun sometimes I turn off the downconversion on 1080i material so I can see the center 1366x768 pixels, giving me the equivalent of a 52" screen (but only 37" of it of course). A lot of stuff looks way too soft and grainy to be viewed that close. I don't think I'd want to watch a 52" screen eight feet away except for exceptionally clean HD content.

Well, personally I think the rules of thumb regarding HD are way too general. I've been watching HD on a 36' 4x3 set for four years now. That's the equivalent of about 33.5" for widescreen content. And I watch from about 7.5 to 9 feet distance. To my eyes, DVD is easily distinguishable and looks no where near HD quality at those distances even given the relatively small picture. My eyes (with the contacts in ;)) are pretty sharp and I find the same problem scowl did, watching a 50" 720p set from even 8-9 feet is close enough to see pixel structure and does not look smooth or sharp. I've been patiently awaiting 1080p to fully take advantage of all the resolution available in the content and to reduce apparent screen structure/enhance smoothness. I think it will make a definite improvement on plasma/lcd for my eyes. We shall see...


ron

Anyone geting 5.1 on MNF tonight? I didn't realize my rear speakers were not putting out until the Papa Murphy's comercial after the 1st half. Then back to front mains only, no center either. But all the lights for my speakers are lit up on my receiver. OK, the news promo just now activated all speakers - seems local spots are OK but the network feed is messing up. Hope I'm not alone.

There doesn't seem to be any center channel. Same thing with "Catch Me If You Can" two nights ago.

Can you tell what kind of audio stream they are sending? The strange thing is my ProLogic doesn't want to kick in. It seems like straight mono. I sent an email to Alan.

Anyone geting 5.1 on MNF tonight?Finally, someone else notices! I've asked a couple times in the last week if anybody was getting 5.1 from KATU. It seems to have gone missing a good week or so ago now. And this morning I flipped into GMA to see how their HD was progressing and it was the old 15x9 zoom/crop too...


ron

Yeah, I tuned to GMA today, too, to see if the 5.1 thing from last night (and as you guys say, for the past several days) was fixed. I saw what you reported, too, r11.

I tuned to GMA for the first time yesterday but didn't notice the 5.1 problem particularly. My wife did remark how everthing was red. And Sawyer had a red dress on to boot! I read about the redness on the GMA thread but was surprised to see it so vividly... and I'm red/green colorblind! I think my Sony (and Sony's in general) has a slight red push as well. I'm waiting to hear from Alan about the audio.

Anyone getting sound but no picture on digital KATU tonight? Wondering if this is local or national problem? Or just me. Sound seems poor also.

Anyone getting sound but no picture on digital KATU tonight? Wondering if this is local or national problem? Or just me. Sound seems poor also.

It's black in both comcast and ota.... don't know if it's local or national.


Looks like it's a national thing there's some posts about KABC having troubles also.

What? I'm getting Boston Legal perfectly OTA. Did it come back at some point?

Can you tell what kind of audio stream they are sending?
What this sounds like is what happens to Prologic when they incorrectly send it through their 5.1 encoder. You simply get two channel stereo no matter how you try to decode it.

KATU has done this with football games produced by ESPN but broadcast on ABC. I think they assume everything coming from the network is 5.1. This is obviously a different problem but a similar result.

In the HD programming thread there's postings that mostly in the west CIC was SD but was fixed very late in the show which would explain why Boston Legal was HD.

Anyone getting sound but no picture on digital KATU tonight? Wondering if this is local or national problem? Or just me. Sound seems poor also.
My Comcast 6412 recording of Commander in Chief was 21 minutes of all-black. I think it contained sound only, and even at that it wasn't a full recording.

My Comcast 6412 recording of Commander in Chief was 21 minutes of all-black. I think it contained sound only, and even at that it wasn't a full recording.

My Boston Legal OTA recording (using MyHD) is set to start a minute early so it overlaps with CIC. The strange thing is that it is an hour and two minutes of black if I try and play it with MYHD but if I play it with my IODATA LinkPlayer2 it plays fine -- even the CIC ending. Was CIC maybe just flagged wrong??

My Boston Legal OTA recording (using MyHD) is set to start a minute early so it overlaps with CIC. The strange thing is that it is an hour and two minutes of black if I try and play it with MYHD but if I play it with my IODATA LinkPlayer2 it plays fine -- even the CIC ending. Was CIC maybe just flagged wrong??
I recorded CIC OTA with DirecTivo. Got no picture, but adequate sound until 37 minutes in, then SD picture and sound for four or five minutes when HD kicked in until the finish. Haven't watch Boston Legal yet, but I did a quick look and it seemed okay.

Whatever's going on there, I sure hope they have a handle on it by 9:00 tonight...


ron

Whatever's going on there, I sure hope they have a handle on it by 9:00 tonight...


ron
With you on that. I've got one Tivo set to record 2-1 and another to record 2, just in case.

So did anybody in Portland watch CIC "live" as it aired? Were there the same problems on 2-1 as on 702 as on 2 analog?

I tried recording on Comcast 702 on my 6412 and when I went to view it about 20 minutes in, the recorder refused to go to the start no matter what I tried. I think it got frustrated with my repeated commands as it shut down suddenly and rebooted. When it came back on 702 was there in all its HD glory and the recording was fine from that point - 9:43, I think.

Sorry for putting this on the OTA thread but it looks like the problem was not provider-caused but was from the source.

Anyone else with at dish 811 HD-STB having problems with 2-1. Both of mine are locking into a cycle of blank picture then live for one second over and over. I have a model 6000 and a mythtv box with a pchdtv3000 card that look fine.

Just checked and 2-1 is coming in fine right now, except no audio in rears. Center channel has finally come alive. I have a stand-alone STB (Zenith).

Edit: All 5.1 working now - finally!

Anyone else with at dish 811 HD-STB having problems with 2-1. Both of mine are locking into a cycle of blank picture then live for one second over and over. I have a model 6000 and a mythtv box with a pchdtv3000 card that look fine.


That's usually a PSIP problem.. my 811 does that once in a while also.

Usually it clears itself up but if it doesn't a quick delete and add of the channel
fixes it.

First 5.1 I've heard on 2-1 in almost two weeks. Looks like they got things straightened out just in the nick of time!


ron

New member, first post, apologies in advance if I've messed up. Yesterday I lost KOIN 6.1 - still gone as of today (11-11-05) early am. I'm asking because I use the Sony DHG-HDD250 HD DVR as an OTA tuner, and these units are currently having problems nationwide with rebooting, missing TV Guide info, etc. A new channel scan does find 6.1, but "no signal" when I tune to it. Nothing on 6.2 either. Analog 6 is still present. I still have all the other DTV channels like 2.1, 8.1, etc. - only 6.1 is "gone". Just trying to figure out if this is a KOIN problem or if I'm having a problem with my tuner.

Welcome to the forum! I just checked and 6-1 and 6-2 are coming in loud and clear - long live Bob Barker! I also watched CSI last night without any problems. I use a Zenith STB so I'm not aware of the problems the Sony might present. Perhaps others will chime in. Have you checked the HD Recorder an Players thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=42) ?

What was your signal strength for KOIN before you lost it? Have you tried the unplug/plug in reset of your tuner?

I know that everyone is grateful to KOIN when they shut down SD on 6-2 during sports. But what I don't understand is why is this channel ever on in the first place? What are the circumstances under which you would want to watch it instead of 6-1?

I can see some rationale behind 10-1 and 10-2, since content is different. But 6-1 and 6-2 always seem to be the same. So why does it exist? Are there SD devices with ATSC tuners?

I know that everyone is grateful to KOIN when they shut down SD on 6-2 during sports. But what I don't understand is why is this channel ever on in the first place?
This is one of the great mysteries of digital television. Many stations insist they need to degrade their HD channel to include an SD subchannel even though their SD channel usually looks terrible. KGW's SD subchannel is a complete joke:

http://home.pacifier.com/~scowl/hdtv/nbc-sd.jpg

This is an unwatchable mess and can't be called a usable television service. Obviously if KOIN can switch their subchannel off during major sports events, no viewers are depending on it. I can only assume the existence of these subchannels serve some other purpose for the stations that has nothing to do with their viewers.

I know that everyone is grateful to KOIN when they shut down SD on 6-2 during sports. But what I don't understand is why is this channel ever on in the first place? What are the circumstances under which you would want to watch it instead of 6-1?

I can see some rationale behind 10-1 and 10-2, since content is different. But 6-1 and 6-2 always seem to be the same. So why does it exist? Are there SD devices with ATSC tuners?

I have the same strife on the use of 6.2. Even if you had a 4x3 aspect TV, couldn't you crop/fill/letterbox the 6.1 content to your liking? The only thing I can think of is that the locals want us to "get used to it" for when they all start having weather or news sub-channels... :(

Also, KOIN has some TitanTV (http://ww2.titantv.com/TTV/Grid/Grid.aspx) bugs. I noticed there is a 6.3 in TitanTV, and all 6.* channels show as HD except for Letterman which doesn't show any as HD.

Josh

I know that everyone is grateful to KOIN when they shut down SD on 6-2 during sports. But what I don't understand is why is this channel ever on in the first place? What are the circumstances under which you would want to watch it instead of 6-1?

I can see some rationale behind 10-1 and 10-2, since content is different. But 6-1 and 6-2 always seem to be the same. So why does it exist? Are there SD devices with ATSC tuners?


If you search through this thread for Lee Wood's posts, I think you will find where he claims they do it so they won't get sued by someone with burn-in due to the black bars on 6-1. Pretty lame excuse IMHO, Lee!

Hey, maybe Lee can talk some sense into the new mgmt team about it when they show up. We can always hope anyway...


ron

If you search through this thread for Lee Wood's posts, I think you will find where he claims they do it so they won't get sued by someone with burn-in due to the black bars on 6-1.
I can think of at least three major holes in that explanation. That only deepens the mystery. :confused:

Anyone know where I can pick up a Silver Sensor Antenna in the Beaverton area?

Thanks,
Steve

Best Buy and Circuit City both carry the Silver Sensor. It's a great product.

peejayemm

Already tried the Beaverton Best Buy. They don't carry them anymore just Terk's and RCA. Circuit City's web site does not show any either. They have gone berserk with Terk also. I've had Terks before and they are worthless. I will go to Circuit City tomorrow and check them anyway.

Any place else?

I know Fry's carries them but was hoping to find it a little closer to home.

Steve

I've heard that Sears carries them, so you might give them a call, but the Zenith website just lists BB and CC. I got mine at Good Guys, but they've been swallowed by CompUSA, so that's one other idea.

Got my Winegard antenna hooked up today, but will need to readjust it a bit as KOPB and KPTV don't come in at all. Don't mind so much on KOPB but KPTV does have some good Fox stuff that we like to watch. I guess it's better than only getting one or two digital channels. Just seems weird that KGW comes in as all three are the same compass reading from my house (19) while KPDX comes in at 17 and everything else is 25-26.

[Got my Winegard antenna hooked up today, but will need to readjust it a bit as KOPB and KPTV don't come in at all. Don't mind so much on KOPB but KPTV does have some good Fox stuff that we like to watch. I guess it's better than only getting one or two digital channels. Just seems weird that KGW comes in as all three are the same compass reading from my house (19) while KPDX comes in at 17 and everything else is 25-26.]

What Winegard and where are you located? My HD8200p won't do 10.1 or 10.2 and 12.1 is my next weakest. Please search my posts and see the responses. It'd be nice to figure a solution.
Rich

[Got my Winegard antenna hooked up today, but will need to readjust it a bit as KOPB and KPTV don't come in at all. Don't mind so much on KOPB but KPTV does have some good Fox stuff that we like to watch. I guess it's better than only getting one or two digital channels. Just seems weird that KGW comes in as all three are the same compass reading from my house (19) while KPDX comes in at 17 and everything else is 25-26.]

What Winegard and where are you located? My HD8200p won't do 10.1 or 10.2 and 12.1 is my next weakest. Please search my posts and see the responses. It'd be nice to figure a solution.
Rich


IT's the squareshooter 1100 (looks like a little speaker instead of a regular antenna). Located in SW Beaverton off Murray and Weir. Might have to get a crappy indoor antenna for 10 and 12 and just hook straight into the tv (Sony 50A10) instead of the HD-TiVo?

Those of you complaining about not receiving certain channels, your problem probably is multipath. That's my problem.

Using my Silver Sensor feeding my HD tuner, I have lots of intermittent dropouts. Some days everything is fine, some days one or two HD channels won't tune it at all. Pointing the antenna just 10 degrees to either side may fix the original problem but break another channel. Don't expect your reception to stay predictable from day to day or season to season.

You can see for yourself if multipath is a problem, assuming your tuner supports the following. Tune to, for example, analog channel 49. See a strong picture but also strong ghosting? If so, then you have multipath. Now go to the first post in this thread and see for yourself how close all the digital channels are to the analogs, both in frequency and in tower location. So the odds are high that if analog 49 has multipath then so does digital 46 and 48.

I'm tired of all the unpredictability. Some days everything is fine, some days I can't watch the football games. I've sort of made a decision to get the $10 Comcast service, but KOIN is pouting and won't play nice with Comcast and KOIN has about 1/3 of the football games I'd like to see.

Something else those of you with antennas such as Squareshooter can try is to do outdoor mount with something resembling line-of-sight to the towers. My neighbors house is in the way so I'd have to go quite high to clear it. Not worth the hassle, but maybe an outdoor antenna would be acceptable for others. In addition to Squareshooter there are plenty of outdoor antennas that aren't enormous but that would probably do a good job for not too much money. For example, here's a $39 antenna that's uni-directional and should have no problems from close in suburbs as long as you have something resembling line-of-sight:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/SR15_HDTV_Antenna.html

Go here to learn more than you ever wanted to about antennas:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

Also if you're more than about 10 miles away you probably want a uni-directional antenna. Something like what I mentioned above. If you get this instead:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_Indoor_antenna.html

then you may make your multipath worse.

Yeah I'm kind of in a "depression" where line of sight isn't exactly the best to one of the towers, and now understand why I'm not able to get KOPB (no big loss) or KPTV (minor loss). So I don't get the NFL in HD on Fox...I still do on CBS and ABC, as well as ESPN. I think I'll live.


Maybe I'll get a cheaper outdoor/indoor to see if I can just tune in those stations...we'll see how that goes. For now, ABC/CBS/NBC in HD is fine with me (everything else is useless to me)

Does anyone in our area own a sony DHG-HDD 250/500? If so, hows it working for you?

Lew

I use the DHG-HDD250 as an OTA tuner (and obviously for the DVR). Previously I used a Sony SAT-HD200 which was DVI. As far as PDX OTA reception, the HDD250 works just fine. It has other "issues" common to this model - see the AVS forum dedicated to these units. In brief, I like it - the "pro's" are good reception, good picture quality, and it's so nice to be able to record HD shows then view them in HD later. The "con's" - clock display is so small I can't see it from more than about 5' away. It's a PC, there is a fan that runs constantly and it's noisy. Even when "off" it's still drawing quite a bit of power. Then there's the whole Gemstar TV Guide Over The Air thing with all their problems. I have to confess that I do most of my recording manually instead of using the "guide", so I really haven't had any problems like others have reported. Overall I'm quite pleased with it.

Thnx for responding richarpr.

I have a LG 3410a that has been virtually flawless using the gemstar guide. I program a weeks worth of shows using the guide every sunday morning. I do not use any "record weekly" type functions. The 3410a has been very reliable for me when used this way.

I've been looking for another OTA recorder. If the guide doesn't work at least as well as the LG in our area the sony is not for me. Have you tried using the guide to schedule any recordings? Did they fail or what? Does your guide populate for the full 8 days? I'm getting the guide from Fox 12 analog (according to the hex number in the buried info area).

Well, we in the Portland area on Sunday afternoon are stuck watching Buffalo play San Diego in grainy SD while the CBS national spotlight game is undefeated Indianapolis at Cincinnati in HD... simply because somebody at the network in New York thought Portland was in the home market for San Diego (!) and I guess nobody at KOIN cared enough to challange that stupid decision.

When the Bengals closed to within 1 point in the 3rd quarter, I was cursing whoever forced us to watch the baby blue Chargers steamroll the hapless Bills. Fortunately, KPTV is showing the Seattle-San Francisco game in sparkling 720p. I refuse to watch the KOIN game even on commercial breaks - not only a bad matchup but in below-average quality SD to boot. I'm sure KOIN would blame the network, but that's just passing the buck. The bottom line is, there apparently is no sports fan at KOIN who cares enough to speak up for their Portland area NFL audience.

You realize that complaining here is a waste of your time and ours. You're better off complaining to KOIN.

You realize that complaining here is a waste of your time and ours. You're better off complaining to KOIN.
It's not a complete waste of time. We local football fans can commiserate with each other. I was thinking the exact same thing. San Diego is about 1000 miles from here. Why the f*** should I care about them or about Buffalo?

somebody at the network in New York thought Portland was in the home market for San Diego (!) and I guess nobody at KOIN cared enough to challange that stupid decision.
Do we know for sure that this is the way it works? Can't we blame this bonehead decision entirely on KOIN? Their current moronic behavior with respect to Comcast (and previously with respect to DirecTV) makes me despise them and makes me desperately want them to be 100% at fault here!

Despite the concerns of some others on this thread, I just can't see a downside to the sale of KOIN. There's nowhere to go from here but up.

Despite the concerns of some others on this thread, I just can't see a downside to the sale of KOIN. There's nowhere to go from here but up.
Yes there is... down. How far is down? Read just about any other Local HDTV thread and you'll see how good we have it.

How about another subchannel of crap? How keeping two subchannels running during football so it will be the 90% block-o-vision we see during Notre Dame games on KGW? How about always forgetting to flip the switch? How about no triplecast during the NCAA tournament? How about letting their ATSC transmitter deteriorate because only 10 people watch it? How about get rid of HD completely since it serves no purpose? There are several stations in the country who only transmit 480i to meet their FCC requirement and have no plans to broadcast in any other format -- need to leave some bandwidth to lease out. I'm sure Comcast would love to carry that for free.

KOIN has a powerful reliable signal, rarely screws up their HDTV broadcasts, gives us full 1080i bandwidth during sporting events (virtually unheard of in most cities), has good 5.1 sound, is very responsive to technical questions and complaints, and is a HD pioneer in Portland.

Yeah KOIN is one of the best if not the best in Portland in respect to OTA HDTV. Of course I don't watch regular CBS programming besides sporting events but still...they're doing much better for me than KPTV or KOPB which I can't even dial in.


It all depends on your priorities I guess

KOIN has a powerful reliable signal
You keep repeating this, as if saying it over and over will make it magically become true. But for many people in the Portland metro area it just isn't true. There is NO station with a "reliable" signal. Why? Because of MULTIPATH! If it weren't for multipath, cable penetration around the country would be 1/2 of what it is (made up statistic).

Here is a camera snapshot I took just an hour ago from analog channel 12. The overall picture looks "ok". Certainly viewable. Now look at the titling on the screen. Notice how the letters have ghosts. That's not JPEG artifacts, that's multipath. It's not much, but it's enough to give the average HD decoder problems. The whole ATSC system is flawed because of how sensitive it is to this problem.

The above was from my LG LST-4200A HD tuner, connected to my Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Most of the analog channels are worse than that in terms of quality and multipath. The quality is easily explained because the analogs are mostly VHF and the antenna is not really designed for VHF. But so what, the multipath is still there, clearly visible, on all the analog channels.

I've said before how I'm a "typical" house. I would have LOS to the towers if it weren't for a few 2-story houses and a few trees in between me and the towers. The houses certainly attenuate the signal, but they're much too close to be causing the multipath I'm seeing. That must be coming from the countless other buildings, hills, and similar terrain features in the general area.

Now, what about the countless other people in the metro area who are on the wrong side of a small hill, or have a 5-story office tower between them and the towers, or who just have some tall trees in the way. They will have a much worse picture than I do. That's the "typical" scenario. That's why OTA sucks, especially at UHF frequencies. That's why cable and satellite are getting big bucks from millions of people.

Wishing that the above reality doesn't exist is simply delusional thinking. No amount of delusional thinking will magically make ATSC work for most of the metro area. And the broadcasters know it. Just wait until we get closer to the "hard" cutoff for analog. The wailing and gnashing of teeth will be unbelievable. Once Joe Sixpack truly understands what will be about to happen, I think there's a good chance that Congress will walk away from the whole sordid mess.

Edit: I originally said channel 49, I meant channel 12. I think the network affiliation switch is still confusing me. Also I believe that switch to ATSC will eventually happen. Eventually it will be cheap enough to build chips with sufficient smarts to solve the multipath. Throw enough silicon at a problem like this and you can solve it. But you can't solve it cheaply today.

Multipath is easy to solve. It's called big directional antenna. :)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res02dad/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/20030608-016.jpg

You keep repeating this, as if saying it over and over will make it magically become true. But for many people in the Portland metro area it just isn't true. There is NO station with a "reliable" signal. Why? Because of MULTIPATH! If it weren't for multipath, cable penetration around the country would be 1/2 of what it is (made up statistic).

Here is a camera snapshot I took just an hour ago from analog channel 12. The overall picture looks "ok". Certainly viewable. Now look at the titling on the screen. Notice how the letters have ghosts. That's not JPEG artifacts, that's multipath. It's not much, but it's enough to give the average HD decoder problems. The whole ATSC system is flawed because of how sensitive it is to this problem.

The above was from my LG LST-4200A HD tuner, connected to my Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Most of the analog channels are worse than that in terms of quality and multipath. The quality is easily explained because the analogs are mostly VHF and the antenna is not really designed for VHF. But so what, the multipath is still there, clearly visible, on all the analog channels.

I've said before how I'm a "typical" house. I would have LOS to the towers if it weren't for a few 2-story houses and a few trees in between me and the towers. The houses certainly attenuate the signal, but they're much too close to be causing the multipath I'm seeing. That must be coming from the countless other buildings, hills, and similar terrain features in the general area.

Now, what about the countless other people in the metro area who are on the wrong side of a small hill, or have a 5-story office tower between them and the towers, or who just have some tall trees in the way. They will have a much worse picture than I do. That's the "typical" scenario. That's why OTA sucks, especially at UHF frequencies. That's why cable and satellite are getting big bucks from millions of people.

Wishing that the above reality doesn't exist is simply delusional thinking. No amount of delusional thinking will magically make ATSC work for most of the metro area. And the broadcasters know it. Just wait until we get closer to the "hard" cutoff for analog. The wailing and gnashing of teeth will be unbelievable. Once Joe Sixpack truly understands what will be about to happen, I think there's a good chance that Congress will walk away from the whole sordid mess.

Edit: I originally said channel 49, I meant channel 12. I think the network affiliation switch is still confusing me. Also I believe that switch to ATSC will eventually happen. Eventually it will be cheap enough to build chips with sufficient smarts to solve the multipath. Throw enough silicon at a problem like this and you can solve it. But you can't solve it cheaply today.Bud, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Please get a grip on yourself :rolleyes:.


ron

Bud, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Please get a grip on yourself :rolleyes:.


ron
Well that's really helpful. Such an incisive rebuttal. Bottom line is that OTA ATSC is a non-starter for much of the metro area and I see nothing in your statement to contradict that.

Multipath is easy to solve. It's called big directional antenna. :)
Yes you are right. I've seen terrific results with an outdoor antenna. It should be really easy in metro Portland since the towers are so close together. But nobody in my entire neighborhood has one. The WAF is very low. Everyone has cable or satellite.

Well that's really helpful. Such an incisive rebuttal. Bottom line is that OTA ATSC is a non-starter for much of the metro area and I see nothing in your statement to contradict that.
I see nothing in your statement to support it either. Yes, OTA can require some tinkering to get a perfect picture but ATSC can be successfully received in all but the absolute worst locations. Good God man, KOIN's tower is hiding behind 14 story concrete building where I am. I guess I shouldn't be able to receive it, right? Nevertheless I'm receiving it perfectly with an old second generation ATSC receiver connected to a Yagi I bought at Radio Shack for less than my monthly Comcast bill. I did have multipath problems and probably the worst possible ones -- bouncing off of large vehicles. I moved my antenna around until the multipath problems disappeared.

If I had a fifth generation receiver, I probably wouldn't have had to adjust anything. There have been vast improvements in receiver multipath rejection over the past couple years because it's a well-understood problem and clever techniques have solved it to a great degree.

Your LST-4200A is a fourth generation receiver. It can receive ATSC perfectly if you're willing to do a little problem solving and experimentation. Just because you're having trouble receiving KOIN with a Sliver Sensor hardly means most people need cable to receive it.

Phantom Gremlin, You're using a small indoor antenna and declaring that OTA reception is all but impossible for many if not most people, when if you look at antennaweb.org it recommends a medium directional for Tualatin. Why don't you actually make an earnest attempt to receive the stations before you go on another rampage about how "impossible" it is.

I'm sure everyone is well aware of your feelings toward KOIN but it's really a shame for the rest of us to have to rebut your continued wild claims about OTA reception, lest someone new to the area believes you.
As scowl pointed out there are places where it is hard maybe even impossible to get the OTA signal, but those areas are few and definitely not " a non-starter for much of the metro area" as you claim.

Oh, and where are all these wives coming from? I have yet to meet one that had a serious problem with putting an antenna on the roof. WAF is just an excuse for I'm to lazy or too much chicken to crawl onto my roof. :D

Multipath is easy to solve. It's called big directional antenna. :)


Actually, no.

With a big directional antenna, you may experience the next problem:

TOO MUCH SIGNAL

Sure, attenuators can help, but that is beyond the realm of most consumers.

Back when ATSC format was approved, there was a lot of discussion on the technical merits, and the potential for multipath problems. Solutions were proposed, but that would have made the then recently adopted standards obsolete. In the interest of compatibility with the approved standards, no changes were authorized, and now we get to live with a problematic standard.

Now don't get me wrong, when ATSC works, it works well; but when it doesn't it doesn't. There is no equivalent of a snowy or noisy picture like there is with NTSC reception.

Who would have thought that watching TV would require "tech support"

Mike

I've read that 5th generation receivers are much better at recognizing overload and will automatically attenuate the signal.

There are a lot of smart people finding ways to deal with this problematic standard. I can tell you the difference between a second and fourth generation receiver is huge and their antenna requirements are much less strict. The newer chips do an incredible job of getting the data out of a messed up signal.

Actually, no.

With a big directional antenna, you may experience the next problem:

TOO MUCH SIGNAL

Sure, attenuators can help, but that is beyond the realm of most consumers.

Back when ATSC format was approved, there was a lot of discussion on the technical merits, and the potential for multipath problems. Solutions were proposed, but that would have made the then recently adopted standards obsolete. In the interest of compatibility with the approved standards, no changes were authorized, and now we get to live with a problematic standard.

Now don't get me wrong, when ATSC works, it works well; but when it doesn't it doesn't. There is no equivalent of a snowy or noisy picture like there is with NTSC reception.

Who would have thought that watching TV would require "tech support"

Mike


That's what the AGC circuit is for in any receiver. I run the signal into a 10db amp then split it 10 times for my receivers. My house is down in the mouth of the gorge and under the flight path for PDX. Before I put up the beast every plane would cause me to lose signal for a few seconds. Sure is windy today :)

I live in Lafayette, so I am behind a few minor hills on the way to Portland. Direct TV installed the usual amplified antenna. I get good to great reception on all channels besides KATU and KOIN.

The problem is that I watch football, and I NEED KATU by the superbowl.

Question:

Is it possible to get a good directional/amplified indoor antenna, and split the signal with m outdoor antenna so that both are inputed into the receiver (HD- TIVO).

I am not interested in messing with the outdoor antenna, as it is doing a good job as is.

Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated!

Thanks.

I have two receivers. One downstairs and one upstairs. Both are getting their main OTA signal from a large Winegard 4 bay bowtie antenna in the attic. Channel 2 and the WB are tough to get with a lot of multipath problems. I have added a zenith silver sensor to each receiver and have solved my multipath problems with these two stations. I have the big 4 bay bowtie and the silver sensors going into splitters and then into the receivers. With the silver sensors located near each receiver, I can do very fine tweaking when necessary.

I picked up the silver sensors at Fry's. I tried Sears, Circuit City, Best Buy, Magnolia Hifi, and Video Only. Fry's is the only place that carries them now.

Steve

So how do you run both signals into the receiver??

Did you just use a 2 in, 1 out splitter, or did you use something else?

Would this work:

http://cgi.*********/TERK-PMDA-MAST-MOUNT-DUAL-AMPLIFIER-DIPLEXER_W0QQitemZ5832329022QQcategoryZ11726QQrdZ1QQcmdZView Item

Or this:

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5830789922&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Yes. I use a 2 to 1 splitter. 2 antennas in and out to the receiver. Works great.

Steve

Good God man, KOIN's tower is hiding behind 14 story concrete building where I am. I guess I shouldn't be able to receive it, right? Nevertheless I'm receiving it perfectly with an old second generation ATSC receiver connected to a Yagi I bought at Radio Shack for less than my monthly Comcast bill.
That's not good enough. Tell me that you can receive all of:
2, 6, 8, 10, 12, 32, and 49 digital
without fiddling with your antenna. Or is your Yagi outside like most are?

If I had a fifth generation receiver, I probably wouldn't have had to adjust anything. There have been vast improvements in receiver multipath rejection over the past couple years because it's a well-understood problem and clever techniques have solved it to a great degree.
Gee, I must have missed the product announcement. Please tell me how to buy this mythical 5th generation receiver without being forced to buy a flat screen TV attached to it. I'm not 100% certain but I believe that you can't buy a standalone 5th gen yet.

Your LST-4200A is a fourth generation receiver. It can receive ATSC perfectly if you're willing to do a little problem solving and experimentation. Just because you're having trouble receiving KOIN with a Sliver Sensor hardly means most people need cable to receive it.
Oh yes, it receives KOIN quite well from time to time. It just doesn't receive all 7 HD stations at the same time. For example, last Sunday FOX was great and CBS was dropping out all the time. I could have fiddled with the antenna and then maybe KOIN would have been better. But FOX had the better game.

Phantom Gremlin, You're using a small indoor antenna and declaring that OTA reception is all but impossible for many if not most people, when if you look at antennaweb.org it recommends a medium directional for Tualatin. Why don't you actually make an earnest attempt to receive the stations before you go on another rampage about how "impossible" it is.

Okay, I've certainly repeated my complaints a few times. Before I bitch again, maybe I'll spend the $60 and buy a Channel Master 4228 to install in my garage. It's about as directional as a medium range Yagi and I think I like the form factor a bit better.

As scowl pointed out there are places where it is hard maybe even impossible to get the OTA signal, but those areas are few and definitely not " a non-starter for much of the metro area" as you claim.
A quick google found this site http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/data/oregon/portland/ which claims home ownership is approx 56% for Portland. (Probably higher in suburbs). So in round numbers at least 1/3 of people are renting or living in apts. Neither of which are very appropriate for outdoor antennas. I firmly believe that reliable ATSC is relatively difficult to receive in many areas without a mythical "5th gen" receiver or an outdoor antenna. By reliable I mean receiving all seven 700 kW+ stations at least 99% of the time. (How's that for a made up goal?)

WAF is just an excuse for I'm to lazy or too much chicken to crawl onto my roof. :D
Well, my wife won't even allow much in the way of CF lighting in the house. Not aesthetically pleasing.

Rather than being chicken, I'd like to think I'm not stupid enough to crawl onto my roof. Two young children to think about. I could easily afford to pay someone to do it. But, done right, an outdoor install would still be complicated. For example, NEC requires tying grounds together and the logical place for the antenna is on the opposite side of the house from the building ground.

I'm not saying it's undoable, I'm saying that things would be a lot simpler if KOIN and Comcast could reach an agreement.

Well that's really helpful. Such an incisive rebuttal. Bottom line is that OTA ATSC is a non-starter for much of the metro area and I see nothing in your statement to contradict that.You know, sometimes I just find it painful to respond in detail to unfounded and ignorant posts. Especially when I've just read them and am feeling like I might say some things I'd most likely regret later on. My reply to you was not just based on the last post quoted. It was in response to the build up of toxic BS you coughed up over the series of posts you made ending with that one. Statements like this for instance:

"Do we know for sure that this is the way it works? Can't we blame this bonehead decision entirely on KOIN? Their current moronic behavior with respect to Comcast (and previously with respect to DirecTV) makes me despise them and makes me desperately want them to be 100% at fault here!"

Ignorant and childish all in one.... As far as the whole rant about ATSC goes, while some of your points have merit, the basic argument is completely irrelevant. Sure, some people will undoubtedly have issues with reception. People will need appropriate antennas to get decent reception. It will not just be "plug and play" for many and will require a little work. And yes, cable and satellite will look very attractive to many people because of it. But you know what? That's nothing new at all. People have put up with the very same "hardships" with NTSC since the beginning. Why do you think so many people use cable and satellite already? If ATSC works for you, great. If you're too lazy/uninterested/in a severe location, just do what millions of people have done for years, get cable and quit bitching about it.


ron

My reply to you was not just based on the last post quoted. It was in response to the build up of toxic BS you coughed up over the series of posts you made ending with that one.
Yes, my posts could be considered childish. But no more so than the spat between KOIN and Comcast. Businesses build up a reservoir of good will or ill feelings with consumers over time. I dislike KOIN for their pettiness. I despise Comcast for their multitude of sins (and I'm hardly the only one). That's another reason why it's been so hard to restore cable. The entire household is deliriously happy with DirecTV and DirecTivos. But no HD from them either.

People will need appropriate antennas to get decent reception. It will not just be "plug and play" for many and will require a little work.
That's my point. It will NOT be easy for the average consumer to get reliable HD from the seven high-power local stations. The things I've tried are very much what the average consumer would try. I've failed despite having one of the better indoor antennas and one of the better standalone tuners.

That's nothing new at all. People have put up with the very same "hardships" with NTSC since the beginning.
There is something very new here, that the average consumer certainly isn't aware of. The failure mode of ATSC is dramatically different than NTSC. It's all or nothing, and it can change from minute to minute. The multipath in the picture I posted would be easily tolerated (if even noticed) by most when watching NTSC, and yet causes ATSC to drop out repeatedly.

That's a big difference.

You keep blaming KOIN for the impasse regarding their lack of HD signal on Comcast. It is NOT a local issue. It is a parent company, corporate issue between Emmis and Comcast. For all you know KOIN would love to have their HD feed represented on local cable. If for no other reason than they would no longer have to continue to listen to the complaints from irate/belligerent viewers like you :D. Since Emmis seemed to be somewhat "out there" in their demands on this issue, I'd think the switch to a new parent company just may have good consequences for you. And the rest of us ;).


ron

The failure mode of ATSC is dramatically different than NTSC. It's all or nothing, and it can change from minute to minute. The multipath in the picture I posted would be easily tolerated (if even noticed) by most when watching NTSC, and yet causes ATSC to drop out repeatedly.
Hold your judgements until more fifth generation receivers become available. Every new receiver generation has improved over the previous and some people have seen dramatic improvements. You can expect steady improvements because these are all solvable problems that have been understood since the early days of radar.

That's not good enough. Tell me that you can receive all of:
2, 6, 8, 10, 12, 32, and 49 digital
without fiddling with your antenna. Or is your Yagi outside like most are?
Yes I receive every single DTV channel (except VHF PAX) perfectly without fiddling with my Yagi which is in my attic, not outdoors.

I honestly don't care if that's "good enough" for you because it's more than good enough for me.

Hold your judgements until more fifth generation receivers become available. Every new receiver generation has improved over the previous and some people have seen dramatic improvements. You can expect steady improvements because these are all solvable problems that have been understood since the early days of radar.

That might be true for signal reception issue, but not necessarily so for PQ. Case in point, I recently tried a Dish 811 receiver and compared its PQ (OTA-HD, local channels only) to my "older" Sony SAT-HD200's. The older Sony, to my eyes, presented a noticabley better PQ with better color and sharpness, and resolution. However, 811 seemed to do better in receiving ch. 32.1 which is an iffy proposition with the Sony. I was actually surprised about the PQ, and decided to return the 811 and stick with the older tuner!

HZ

I have two receivers. One downstairs and one upstairs. Both are getting their main OTA signal from a large Winegard 4 bay bowtie antenna in the attic. Channel 2 and the WB are tough to get with a lot of multipath problems. I have added a zenith silver sensor to each receiver and have solved my multipath problems with these two stations. I have the big 4 bay bowtie and the silver sensors going into splitters and then into the receivers. With the silver sensors located near each receiver, I can do very fine tweaking when necessary.

I picked up the silver sensors at Fry's. I tried Sears, Circuit City, Best Buy, Magnolia Hifi, and Video Only. Fry's is the only place that carries them now.

Steve

I have been living with subpar OTA reliability for quite sometime, and I'm wondering if my problem is multipathing. I mean it works most of the time but I often have break ups and sometimes more than others. Last night on channel 8 for example it was really bad. I have a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna mounted in my attic. If I adjust the antenna to get 8 strong, then 2 is weak and vice versa, so I kind of found the middle of the road on those two. 6 always seems pretty good either way. I don't have direct line of site to the towers, as I'm in a little valley, but if I go up the street, (maybe 60 ft higher in elevation) I can see the top of the towers.

Anyway, I'm wondering if your solution would work for me, but I'm kind of scratching my head how 2 antennas help multipathing. I'm not that knowledgeable about tv signals and antennas, but I guess I would think that 2 antennas would make things worse.

Anyway any additional info and/or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

That might be true for signal reception issue, but not necessarily so for PQ.
The receiver section of an ATSC STB is totally independent from the section that displays the video. At some point in the STB it's all the same ones and zeros. Odds are they screwed up or took short cuts in the video to save costs. I wouldn't call this a trend although some new STB's have better DVI outputs since almost all new displays have digital inputs.

I have a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna mounted in my attic. If I adjust the antenna to get 8 strong, then 2 is weak and vice versa, so I kind of found the middle of the road on those two.
Your antenna is too directional. By aiming between the towers you may be missing them all and getting weak signals from all the stations. I had this same problem and someone here gave me something to try.

Your CM 3016 has something like eight director elements. Carefully turn the elements (don't bend the metal too much) at the end of the boom (the end away from the reflector) in so they're inline with the boom. This will make the antenna less directional but also less sensitive so it may make things worse. Keep turning elements inline and see if your signal quality improves from both sets of stations when it's aimed between them. You may have to turn more than half of them before you notice any difference. Naturally it could make things worse.

In my case the towers are about four degrees apart so my Yagi only needed two elements to get all the stations perfectly.

I thought the same thing also. I thought two antennas split into one receiver would really mess up the signal receiving but it really made a big difference for me. You can always try it with a second indoor antenna and if it doesn't work you can take it back. Cheap fix.

Steve

Your antenna is too directional. By aiming between the towers you may be missing them all and getting weak signals from all the stations. I had this same problem and someone here gave me something to try.
I don't think your assesment is correct, at least for the 7 stations at Sylvan.

I used zip 97223 (I don't know his street address) and antennaweb shows the stations between 356 degrees and 6 degrees (so that's only 10 degree difference between them). That's quite narrow.

I don't have polar plot of 3016. But hdtvprimer has polar plot of 3018, which is MORE directional than his:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm3018.html
Even the highly directional 3018 looks like it can receive over 40 degress width (+/- 20 degrees on plot) before 3dB down. That's looking at plot of channel 50, which is roughly the high end of what is needed for Portland. The lower channels are even less directional. Unfortunately the plot is a computer simulation, so who knows if it accurately describes the 3018.

That's what's so frustrating about ATSC. Need I utter the "M" word again?

As a long shot, I would suggest to bullfrog that he use a compass to confirm that he's pointing his antenna where he thinks he is.

I have a question, do you think it is worth having DTV install an OTA antenna in Sheridan, Or 97378??

Is it a ways away, but I know people in McMinnville just 10 miles away who get good reception, so I was wondering if I would get anything.

Does anyone have any experience from Sheridan??

Please don't just tell me to go to antennaweb.org, that is not helpful.

There are people who are further away that get good reception. I think someone down near Salem has posted here before. I would still go to antennaweb.org to at least see what kind of antenna they recommend.

There are people who are further away that get good reception. I think someone down near Salem has posted here before. I would still go to antennaweb.org to at least see what kind of antenna they recommend.I live in Albany approximately 60 miles south of Portland. I have this (http://www.channelmaster.com/images/3010.jpg) antenna in my attic with a built-in amplifier. I can get most of the portland stations quite well: 2, 8, 12, 10, 32, and 49.
I used to be able to get KOIN 6-1 but a few weeks ago the signal strength went to 12 or less. Any ideas what happened to KOIN?
I guess I should count my blessings that I get any Portland stations at all.

Masmith,
Better than antenna web try http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp, use the links to get the needed data and see the info required for determination of your ability to receive digital broadcasts.
Rich

Anyone watch the Florida/Florida State game on Saturday? What made it even better was somewhere in the 2nd half, the announcer audio went out, but you could still hear the crowd, whistles, p.a. announcer and such on 6-1. On regular KOIN, everything was normal.

I found it an enjoyable way to watch a football game, no complaints here!!!

Wasn't that beautiful? It was like you were... at a football game for a change.

For some reason after a commercial, the 5.1 sound never came back. It stayed Dolby Prologic and never swtched back.

I'm thinking about disconnecting my center speaker during football games!

I have been living with subpar OTA reliability for quite sometime, and I'm wondering if my problem is multipathing.

Anyway any additional info and/or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

I'm in Tigard also and have multipath problems... I went out and bought a 6db attenuator Radio Shack part 15-1257A and put it at the antenna end of the feed line and my problems went away. I still get an occasional breakup but for the most part it's all cleared. Previously I'd get 1/2 a dozen breakups per show.

I had originally put it at the receiver end of the feed line but it didn't work as well.

Did a search for St Helens and nothing/nobody came up. I was using the UHF remote antenna off a DISH 811 receiver to pull in the locals. Everything comes in 70-80% signal strength but Channel 12 and 49 drop out every little while. I was just experimenting to see if I even got anything so I could figure what size outdoor antenna I will need. Antennaweb.org says I need a medium directional antenna (there's some 100 foot tall trees about 200 feet away between my house and portland, without checking the 30+ feet tree box it says i could use a small multi-directional. I read that some people have had hit or miss experience/problems with just a directional. Would a medium multi-directional be better than a medium directional? I don't have much knowledge about OTA.

thanks

I'm no expert on OTA reception by any means, but from out in St Helens I don't know that having a multi directional antenna would provide any benefit since from out there all the towers are clumped pretty tightly in the same direction anyway.


ron

i was kinda thinking along those lines but wasn't sure. Now that i've hunted for antennas around the town most everyone has the directional type. Now for putting it up. :D

thanks

Recorded the Dave Mathews Band program on OBP 10-1 last night (the 5PM showing, I believe.) The resulting recording was only about 15 minutes and was FOBAR. From years of experience, I am quite certain the problem was on their end but I was wondering if anyone else tried to view this program and had different results.

This on an HD TiVo.


I've had prety poor results on OPB lately. (Or for that mater, for the last 5 years!)

Recorded the Dave Mathews Band program on OBP 10-1 last night (the 5PM showing, I believe.) The resulting recording was only about 15 minutes and was FOBAR. From years of experience, I am quite certain the problem was on their end but I was wondering if anyone else tried to view this program and had different results.

This on an HD TiVo.


I've had prety poor results on OPB lately. (Or for that mater, for the last 5 years!)


At least you can tune it in...I've got to get another antenna for OPB and KPTV...can't tune those buggers in to save my life, even if I sacrifice the other channels, those two still don't come in very well if at all. And I'm in Beaverton!

At least you can tune it in...I've got to get another antenna for OPB and KPTV...can't tune those buggers in to save my life, even if I sacrifice the other channels, those two still don't come in very well if at all. And I'm in Beaverton!
KOPB and KPTV are in the northern clump of towers. Are you having trouble with KGW and KPDX too?

KOPB and KPTV are in the northern clump of towers. Are you having trouble with KGW and KPDX too?


Nope...I don't watch KPDX a whole lot but have never had trouble with it (Pilot soccer game on Friday was a-ok and Simpsons are good too). KGW comes in as clear as a bell too. Installer was kind of puzzled at these answers as well, as normally if you didn't get KPTV, you didn't get KGW that well if at all.

Maybe another antenna up on the roof (unlikely) or an indoor (possible) might be my only options.

Since you're so close, this might be one of those cases where you should try an attenuator from Radio Shack and see if that helps. Keep the receipt in case it doesn't help.

Recorded the Dave Mathews Band program on OBP 10-1 last night (the 5PM showing, I believe.) The resulting recording was only about 15 minutes and was FOBAR. From years of experience, I am quite certain the problem was on their end but I was wondering if anyone else tried to view this program and had different results.

This on an HD TiVo.


Nevermind.

Turned out the signal was overloading the TiVo. I turned up the attenuation a bit and things are much better.

The HD TiVo is easilly overloaded and often the symptoms are that one tuner will be fine while the other is spastic. That was the case here.

Since you're so close, this might be one of those cases where you should try an attenuator from Radio Shack and see if that helps. Keep the receipt in case it doesn't help.


What exactly is an attenuator, where would it be located at my house? Reason I ask is that I put in attenuator on radioshack.com and didn't get anything which doesn't surprise me.

TIA

What exactly is an attenuator, where would it be located at my house? Reason I ask is that I put in attenuator on radioshack.com and didn't get anything which doesn't surprise me.

TIA

It decreases the strength of your incoming signal. It gets put in line between your antenna lead and the STB. The RS one is a variable that you can dial in the signal reduction. I have that and also a fixed 10dB attenuator that came with my STB. I need all that because I have straight line of site from the towers (4 Mi.?) to the top of Bull Mtn. to my Silver Sensor and the signal just comes roaring in (through the walls).

Here are the attenuators Radio Shack carries, I also have the variable one...

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kw=attenuator&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057

It decreases the strength of your incoming signal. It gets put in line between your antenna lead and the STB. The RS one is a variable that you can dial in the signal reduction. I have that and also a fixed 10dB attenuator that came with my STB. I need all that because I have straight line of site from the towers (4 Mi.?) to the top of Bull Mtn. to my Silver Sensor and the signal just comes roaring in (through the walls).

Ok I understand antenna lead but STB...is that where it goes into the wall or the HD-TiVo? Just wondering as people have said they tune it and don't want to have to break out the 13 foot ladder to get up to the roof to tune this baby. On the radioshack website in the previous post, I didn't see anything related to "variable" on the three models, is it just the 9.99 one or all?

TIA again, you guys are a great help

The $9.99 one is the only variable attenuator, the others are a fixed 6db attenuation.

I have my variable inline just before my STB (set top box)

That would be between the wall and the HD-Tivo in your case.

The $9.99 one is the only variable attenuator, the others are a fixed 6db attenuation.

I have my variable inline just before my STB (set top box)

That would be between the wall and the HD-Tivo in your case.



Aaaah cool, it's an indoor thing...that'll help.


Forgot one other thing, I've got a diplexor inside from the installer not running a third line for the antenna, I would assume that I would put the attenuator on after the diplexor (between diplexor and STB) rather than wall to diplexor. Looks like a trip to Radio Shack is in order this evening!

Nevermind.

Turned out the signal was overloading the TiVo. I turned up the attenuation a bit and things are much better.

The HD TiVo is easilly overloaded and often the symptoms are that one tuner will be fine while the other is spastic. That was the case here.

Thanks Larry, great tip.

My HTPC with MyHD works OK but the HD Tivo would not receive OTA very well. The NBC station has always been a problem and it continues to be odd, I have an outdoor antenna in my attic, with it I can get NBC but the large outside antenna does better on the other channels except NBC is worse? They are both pointed the same direction. Swithching between two antennas is not passing WAF testing. I will work on combining the signals more this weekend. On the MyHD there is two inputs so mapping the channels in a favorite list works OK. This OTA HD is still way too much geek stuff for many users but when it works and there is a good source it is outstanding.

The $9.99 at ratshack was one of the least expensive improvements I have made to my reception. I will go back and get a couple of fixed units to add to the mix when I can figure out how much padding each input needs. Long ago we set up notch filters for taking noise off signal wires in a building but going through the same work to setup a TV probably beyond most users.

Love this forum for tips like this, kudos to you Larry.

nater

Well that's a no-go on the attenuator. Hooked it up and moved it up and down...and every other station besides KOPB and KPTV went up or down depending on which way I moved it. Ok so far, so good. All of the other stations came in at least 68 with most around 75-80 (KOIN)

KOPB and KPTV both hovered between 0-16 for the most part, and every now and then spiked up to 42-46. But most of the time it was 0-16. And it really didn't matter if the attenuator was near max or min, the signal didn't really go up or down from that tuning.


Next try is possibly a cheap indoor antenna?

Well good and bad news.

I had thought I originally tried to get KOPB and KPTV through my tv's tuner (Sony 50A10) but I guess I didn't. So I let it auto-program through, and I checked the results. KOPB digital is a no go that way but KPTV works! Obviously this is bypassing the HD-TiVo and is a nice little short-term fix but would take all of my locals from being TiVoed. KOPB isn't that big of a deal so that doesn't have to be fixed if necessary, I can get the regular feed if I need it.


So now what's the next step...do I get another diplexor to split the antenna signal into both the TiVo and TV (this won't allow me to TiVo KPTV but I'll be able to see HD on it)? The original antenna signal is diplexed already from the wall as the installer didn't run another line, so one cable is antenna and the other is the 2nd input for the HD-TiVo. Is it possible to split this up again?

Or do I get a booster of some sort (the attenuator didn't work for KOPB or KPTV) to see if I can get the signal higher so that the HD-TiVo can possibly recognize it?

Any thoughts or anything else I might have missed? TIA

There has been discussion about how well an antenna will receive the lower stations such as OPB. Your antenna might not be good at picking up stations such as OPB which has the lowest channel of the HD station. I think it was a few pages back that some posts were made on the subject.

2nd splitter/diplexor works and I have KPTV's OTA digital channel on my tv (but not HD-TiVo). So that solves 95% of the problem which is definitely fine until baseball playoffs come around next fall.



Thanks to everyone for input on my dilemma.

Anyone getting KPTV for the 10am football game a bit choppy? Sometimes can go 5-10 min with perfect picture/sound but then it goes back to stop and go viewing and multiple pixelliation. Just seeing if it's just me and my KPTV or if it's a KPTV/FOX problem?

Must say I favored the CBS Steelers/Bengals game but when I switched to Fox the game it came in very well each time. I did watch for quite a while in the 4th quarter and it was perfect. In fact, I thought the PQ on Fox has improved over the season and the Giants' game was exceptional. But for colors, you couldn't beat the Cincy and Pitt uniforms today.

What was even better was that BOTH the games on KOIN were in HD today, instead of our normal 1HD and 1SD game on double-header days.

I didn't have any trouble with KPTV either, I only watched the game on and off though, I did watch their entire pre-game show and everything was fine for it.

Sorry rifleman but the whole game came in perfectly for me too It sounds like you have more antenna fiddling to do. I thought the PQ was typical FOX blurry. The FSU/Virginia Tech game on ABC last night was the best 720p I've ever seen.

Sorry rifleman but the whole game came in perfectly for me too It sounds like you have more antenna fiddling to do. I thought the PQ was typical FOX blurry. The FSU/Virginia Tech game on ABC last night was the best 720p I've ever seen.



Actually, it was a known national FOX broadcasting problem. The 49er game and another game at 10am also had bad pixellations throughout their broadcasts.


FSU and Va Tech was the best ever? ABC stuff besides MNF is not that good in HD compared to CBS, NBC, or ESPN (which should use the same trucks/broadcasting centers). ESPN wins hands down IMO

Actually, it was a known national FOX broadcasting problem. The 49er game and another game at 10am also had bad pixellations throughout their broadcasts.
I watched it and didn't see it.

FSU and Va Tech was the best ever? ABC stuff besides MNF is not that good in HD compared to CBS, NBC, or ESPN (which should use the same trucks/broadcasting centers). ESPN wins hands down IMO
First I said 720p so take out CBS and NBC. Second I was commenting on that specific game, not everything on ABC.

ESPN has the most consistant 720p quality but I've seen several soft HD games on it over the years, especially college football games. There are a lot more factors to PQ than which truck shows up at a game.

ESPN has the most consistant 720p quality but I've seen several soft HD games on it over the years, especially college football games. There are a lot more factors to PQ than which truck shows up at a game.


But which truck shows up at the game can have a huge impact before the signal even leaves the stadium grounds. FSU and Va.Tech wasn't nearly as good as other ABC broadcasts that day.


Thanks for playing

But which truck shows up at the game can have a huge impact before the signal even leaves the stadium grounds. FSU and Va.Tech wasn't nearly as good as other ABC broadcasts that day.
How so? Which "other ABC broadcasts" are you comparing the game with?

The 49er game and another game at 10am also had bad pixellations throughout their broadcasts.

Umm, the 49er game wasn't even broadcast by Fox (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=612301) in HD. Where did you get the info. that they had problems nationally?

LOL, that would have been really funny if they broadcast the two worthless team in HD. As for the Giants game, I had no problems what so ever, not even an audio drop or glitch. I even watched some of it on the LA HD feed I get and there were no problems on that broadcast either.

How so? Which "other ABC broadcasts" are you comparing the game with?


What part of "ABC broadcasts that day" didn't you understand? I'll wait for an answer before progressing on.

Umm, the 49er game wasn't even broadcast by Fox (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=612301) in HD. Where did you get the info. that they had problems nationally?


I read another website about Fox problems with their football games this weekend on another message board? 49er fans (what's left of them) complained, so did the Tampa Bay fans with the crappy Fox signal.

FOX football is a crappy quality picture compared with CBS. However, they do broadcast more games in HD than CBS. I suppose it is a trade off. Though it did seem that the local FOX broadcast of the Giants game did not have any problems.

BTW, do we know who is buying KOIN? If so, what has been their commitment to HD on their other stations?

Stuck behind Mt. Scott in Happy Valley. Wondering if anyone has luck getting any of the off air HD signals here in Portland. Sorry if this posted to the wrong place.

BTW, do we know who is buying KOIN? If so, what has been their commitment to HD on their other stations?

The SJL Broadcast Group is the who. I tried to do a little checking when it was first announced, but didn't find a lot about their HD commitment. What I did find is that they do buy and sell stations on a regular basis and they don't seem to hold onto many for more than a couple of years.


Stuck behind Mt. Scott in Happy Valley. Wondering if anyone has luck getting any of the off air HD signals here in Portland. Sorry if this posted to the wrong place.
You're in the right place. :)
There have been a couple of people that live in Happy Valley that have posted in the past and if I recall correctly their experience has been somewhat of a mixed bag. Being on the back side of the hill, success took a fair bit of tweaking and a high quality antenna. Maybe one of them will be along to give you a better idea of what they went through.
You should be able to bring up at least some of their posts by searching this thread for "Happy Valley" (in quotes)

:o Thanks for the help.

Hi folks! So my DirecTiVOHD is coming Saturday. I am getting their OTA antenna, which could be good or bad, probably bad. My rental has nothing atm.

I am located near 185th and baseline here in Beaverloah. I have some trees around me (pine) etc.

Should I pick up one of these RS silver things and an attenuator for when the installer comes? Is the RS internal antenna works, I'll just have them return the one he brings.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Sriggins-

I love the optimism that you're going to know what works and doesn't while the installer is still there! <g> I've tried so many different antennas, placements, attenuators, etc., that I've lost count.

Best thing to start with is to go to http://www.antennaweb.org, put in your full address, and see what they recommend. That will at least give you an idea of what you're up against, reception wise.

Best thing to start with is to go to http://www.antennaweb.org, put in your full address, and see what they recommend. That will at least give you an idea of what you're up against, reception wise.

hehe. I had done that. Almost all channels I would want are in the red section. Not sure what that means.

Red means medium directional. (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/antenna.aspx?color=R)

Sriggins-

I love the optimism that you're going to know what works and doesn't while the installer is still there! <g> I've tried so many different antennas, placements, attenuators, etc., that I've lost count.

Best thing to start with is to go to http://www.antennaweb.org, put in your full address, and see what they recommend. That will at least give you an idea of what you're up against, reception wise.


I am in Lafayette and the installer out here did a very good job for me. It's probably hit or miss.

Red means medium directional. (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/antenna.aspx?color=R)

ok so all but TBN (isn't that christian network? shows how much I'll be watching that heh) are red.

62 degrees - UPN 5.3m (closest)
63 degrees - PBS, FOX, NBC
68 degrees - WB, CBS, ABC 6.2m (farthest)

Does that seem doable on one antenna? It has been decades since I have been on a roof.

Thanks!

I am in Lafayette and the installer out here did a very good job for me. It's probably hit or miss.

Thanks! What kind of antenna did they install for you?

I hate to ask... did KATU's signal disappear around 9:26PM? It's reading zero while all other stations are normal. I know it's OK on Comcast.

Of course it's back now. That's why I hate to ask.

KATU has been flaking out lately alright. I was on the treadmill Tuesday night watching the Blazers game and they were getting hammered so badly I switched over to Charlie Brown Christmas at 8:00. Within about 20 minutes or so their signal dropped out completely just like last night and didn't come back up for a good half hour or so.


ron

I hate to ask... did KATU's signal disappear around 9:26PM? It's reading zero while all other stations are normal. I know it's OK on Comcast.

Glad to hear it wasn't just me, since I had my Dish 6000 replaced with a DISH 942 DVR a couple weeks ago my OTA reception had been excellent, a big improvement. Then last night started having problems on KATU. I wasn't watching during the 9 o'clock hour, but I was experiencing a lot of problems during Alias between 10 -11. Couple of times just lost the signal completely.

It went out for a couple of minutes during the 1st half of Monday Night Football. It's still a new thing for most local stations, they're being given a little bit of leeway from me for now.

So how many more years before it's no longer a "new" thing? :( KATU had ATSC on the air four years ago when I started watching DTV in the fall of '01. Not sure how much longer before that... It's just not any kind of priority for any of them. And unfortunately for us, there's no reason to think that's going to change much until closer to the analog shut down (whenever that ends up happening).


ron

So how many more years before it's no longer a "new" thing?

At last count, that would be 3. (plus whatever it takes for the newness to wear off of eveyone that waited until their TV sets went all snowy on them....) :D

Glad to hear it wasn't just me, since I had my Dish 6000 replaced with a DISH 942 DVR a couple weeks ago my OTA reception had been excellent, a big improvement. Then last night started having problems on KATU. I wasn't watching during the 9 o'clock hour, but I was experiencing a lot of problems during Alias between 10 -11. Couple of times just lost the signal completely.

Bullfrog {and any others in stump town... }

I'm in NW PDX and also just went through the same Dish 6000 to 942 upgrade. Huge improvement in OTA HD reception and PQ. I also just got a Panasonic 50PHDUK plasma and I am shocked at how poor the SD channels look, both Dish and the local OTA channels. The locals are very nice when they switch to HD in the evenings, but are barely tolerable during SD broadcasts.

Can anyone suggest a format/aspect/other set up that makes the SD channels more pleasant? Then, what to do on the local channels where the go from SD to HD? Do you program a memory setting for the two?

I keep reading posts that a video scaler/processor (DVDO VP30) does wonders but the thought of $2k to improve SD content makes me ill. I'm running both the 942 and my Denon 3910 into the Panny by HDMI cables.

Thanks,
Kenreau

ISF Calibration in PDX?

I realize this is off topic, but I plan to get my new display ISF calibrated. Can anyone recommend a local Portland ISF service? I looked through the ISF website for members and I am not familiar with any of them listed under Portland. I'm on the Westside/Beaverton area.

Thanks,
Kenreau

I realize this is off topic, but I plan to get my new display ISF calibrated. Can anyone recommend a local Portland ISF service?

You may have better results in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=139

Last summer I had Michael Chen calibrate my RPTV. I call him an "itinerant calibrator" since he travels from town to town. It's only a part time gig for him. However, it cost $550, which I feel is expensive. It could be cheaper depending on type of TV and what you need. But I didn't mind paying, considering that Michael had travel expenses etc to cover.

I was leery of using a local calibrator after having a bad experience with one.

Michael did a good job of getting my TV back to 6500K and carefully adjusting the geometry. He didn't clean the internal lenses and mirror as thoroughly as I might have expected. Also I had to crank up the brightness permanently afterwards since the ISF default is a little too dark for my taste.

But overall I was quite happy. I now have many more years of useful life in my RPTV. It's almost like I bought a new set.

So I'm all installed and mostly working. The antenna DirecTV installed is some cheap (but $40) BBQ style antenna. When we set it up (indoors, on the tv) it was ok. Now 8-1 drops out constantly.

I get 2-1, 6-1, 6-3 (6-2 stopped working), 10-1, and some of the other channels.

So the quesiton is this. I've read on attenuation. I'm only 6 miles from the tower with a fairly clear shot. Could I be receiving TOO much signal which is why when I point the antenna away from where antennaweb says it should be, it gets a little *better*?

Thanks! When it works, the HD is spectacular!

So the quesiton is this. I've read on attenuation. I'm only 6 miles from the tower with a fairly clear shot. Could I be receiving TOO much signal which is why when I point the antenna away from where antennaweb says it should be, it gets a little *better*?
Absolutely. I'm also six miles from the towers and I can pick up KGW on almost anything connected to the antenna input. Fortunately my reception of the south tower stations (KOIN, KATU and some others) is weaker due to an artificial obstruction so my antenna is pointed at them instead. I still get all of the north tower stations perfectly.

Since the signals are so strong at this range, the multipath is also stronger if you have it. Look at the "best" signal I can get from KGW analog over the air:

http://home.pacifier.com/~scowl/hdtv/kgwntsc.jpg

Good heavens I'm getting two ghosts from that signal. I am not looking forward to stations going back to their VHF frequencies.

Scowl, Thanks!

I bought the attenuator, and it didn't help, only made it worse. So then I removed my japanese screen and went to task.

I moved the antenna to on top of my stereo rack, right in front of the rabbit ears for hte VCR (hey, it needs to set the clock somehow! :)

Anyway, all channels are rock solid now. We'll see how long this lasts :) I understand the multipath issue, etc, but who knows, could have been interference from the tv set, from being behind the screen, the window location, etc.

I have three pics of where it was and is now, staring here: http://www.geeksrus.com/albums/livinginoregon/Pages/CRW_3075.html

Phanton G,

Thanks for the ISF input. Yikes, that was a little expensive...

I'll keep looking around.

Thanks,
Ken

I get 2-1, 6-1, 6-3 (6-2 stopped working), 10-1, and some of the other channels.
Sometimes it's good that 6-2 stops working. The engineers at KOIN turn it off during football to leave more bits for the game. I'm guessing that, based on your posting time this AM, that the Colts/Jaguars were on 6-1.

Since the signals are so strong at this range, the multipath is also stronger if you have it. Look at the "best" signal I can get from KGW analog over the air:

http://home.pacifier.com/~scowl/hdtv/kgwntsc.jpg

Ouch. That multipath is ugly ugly ugly. It reminds me of when I lived in NYC way back when.

I have three pics of where it was and is now, staring here: http://www.geeksrus.com/albums/livinginoregon/Pages/CRW_3075.html
The bowties, not the grill, need to be facing toward the towers. I don't know which way the towers are from your room, so it's hard to know if you have oriented the antenna correctly.

Also, are the venetian blinds made of metal? I think that could seriously interfere with your signal if you're trying to get signal "thru" them. (But I'm not an RF engineer, just guessing). Maybe that's why the signal improved when you moved away from venetians and to the wall.

Thanks PG, yeah they are. I moved the antenna and now I get all of the channels, just came home and west wing, the news and cbs recordings (survivor in HD tho 4:3?) are all decent it seems, no glitches.

Here is where i moved it to, and new orientation:

http://www.geeksrus.com/albums/livinginoregon/Pages/CRW_3077.html

(survivor in HD tho 4:3?)
Survivor isn't HD. It's just a regular SD upconversion.

Well I kinda wondered about that. *however*, SD upconverted to 1080i OTA is a billion times better than what was being pumped down the DirecTV Sat CBS. Blech.

Bullfrog {and any others in stump town... }

I'm in NW PDX and also just went through the same Dish 6000 to 942 upgrade. Huge improvement in OTA HD reception and PQ. I also just got a Panasonic 50PHDUK plasma and I am shocked at how poor the SD channels look, both Dish and the local OTA channels. The locals are very nice when they switch to HD in the evenings, but are barely tolerable during SD broadcasts.

Can anyone suggest a format/aspect/other set up that makes the SD channels more pleasant? Then, what to do on the local channels where the go from SD to HD? Do you program a memory setting for the two?

I keep reading posts that a video scaler/processor (DVDO VP30) does wonders but the thought of $2k to improve SD content makes me ill. I'm running both the 942 and my Denon 3910 into the Panny by HDMI cables.

Thanks,
KenreauThere is no scaler that will make a lousy quality feed look good. Crappy source material looks bad on digital TV's no matter what. Your best bet is to find the best quality feed possible and just go with it. If you are trying to watch any of the SD DTV subchannels in town (ie. 6-2, 8-2) it is complete folly. They are compressed into such a small slice of bandwidth that they are essentially worthless. They are a complete waste of otherwise good bandwidth. Since all my analog reception looks like that cap scowl posted, I just stick to the "HD" channels for the SD programming. The network upconverts (during primetime) really look pretty decent. The affiliate upconverts vary from good (live studio stuff like the news) to tolerable (everything else). Of course all that would look better if they would simply put those SD sub channels out of their misery.... Other stuff like SD sat channels, well, some of them there's just not much you will be able to do with them. Many people report better performance using a S-Video connection for SD stuff in general (with different calibration to optimize that input).


ron

There is no scaler that will make a lousy quality feed look good. Crappy source material looks bad on digital TV's no matter what.

Ron,

yes but the situation is more complicated than that. Watching 6-1 was MUCH better than 6. Why? Maybe the compression DirecTV is doing is just set too high? Who knows.

Also, this was the first Survivor I had watched on the new TiVo. Even with the above statement, 6 looked much better than my old tivo! Why? I surmise it is the same reason my Samsung DVD player with the Farouja scaler makes DVDs look better:

It takes most of the scaling process OUT of my Toshiba TV, which has never done a good scaling job. I surmise the HD10-250 does a better job of scaling than my TV does.

If you are trying to watch any of the SD DTV subchannels in town (ie. 6-2, 8-2) it is complete folly. They are compressed into such a small slice of bandwidth that they are essentially worthless. They are a complete waste of otherwise good bandwidth.


I'm not watching any of the -2 channels. All -1. Altho CBS has -3, and was told that was 1080i. Maybe I even recorded 6-3 and forgot.

Since all my analog reception looks like that cap scowl posted, I just stick to the "HD" channels for the SD programming. The network upconverts (during primetime) really look pretty decent. The affiliate upconverts vary from good (live studio stuff like the news) to tolerable (everything else). Of course all that would look better if they would simply put those SD sub channels out of their misery.... Other stuff like SD sat channels, well, some of them there's just not much you will be able to do with them.

ron

Right, similar to what I said above. I honestly think getting my tv's scaler out of the loop makes a difference. The colors SEEMED better on CBS HD but maybe not. All i can say is the PQ was tons better than my old DirecTiVo.

I have DirecTV as my primary source of programming. You are quite right that the SD local channels are sometimes really bad. But I think it varies by program and time of day. I don't know if that's because of statistical multiplexing or if DirecTV makes a conscious decision to prioritize certain channels at certain times (e.g. higher quality during Monday Night Football). Of all the SD locals, I think that KOPB usually fares the worst in terms of compression.

Ouch. That multipath is ugly ugly ugly. It reminds me of when I lived in NYC way back when.
I don't know what could be causing it. I thought multipath was less of a problem on VHF than UHF. I'm hoping it won't be an issue when KGW-DT moves back to channel 8 after the analog shutdown, whenever that'll happen.

Ron,

yes but the situation is more complicated than that. Watching 6-1 was MUCH better than 6. Why? Maybe the compression DirecTV is doing is just set too high? Who knows.

I don't even pay the extra $6 a month for the D* locals because they are so overly compressed/filtered that they are just super soft. At least they were when I watched them during the "free locals" promo they had when they were first offered (and before we had local DTV). Back then I had the choice between two evils, the heavily ghosted but still some-what sharp local NTSC, or the extremely soft but ghost free D* locals. It was basically a no-win toss up...

Also, this was the first Survivor I had watched on the new TiVo. Even with the above statement, 6 looked much better than my old tivo! Why? I surmise it is the same reason my Samsung DVD player with the Farouja scaler makes DVDs look better:

It takes most of the scaling process OUT of my Toshiba TV, which has never done a good scaling job. I surmise the HD10-250 does a better job of scaling than my TV does.

It's quite possible your Toshiba's de-interlacing/scaling is worse than the HD tivo. I still haven't read yet but the HD Tivo may be doing 1080i de-interlacing correctly while your Toshiba could likely be bobbing the resolution down to 540. But with ATSC 6-1 upconverted-at-the-network available, it makes D* 6 moot anyway IMO.


I'm not watching any of the -2 channels. All -1. Altho CBS has -3, and was told that was 1080i. Maybe I even recorded 6-3 and forgot.

6-3 used to have traffic cams at times (don't know if KOIN is still doing that or not), but when HD sports come on it's simply a remapped duplicate of 6-1.

Right, similar to what I said above. I honestly think getting my tv's scaler out of the loop makes a difference. The colors SEEMED better on CBS HD but maybe not. All i can say is the PQ was tons better than my old DirecTiVo.

The colors via HD delivery can be more saturated. Also, if your SD connection from the old Tivo was S-vid or composite it would definitely have worse color reproduction than component/HDMI/DVI would.


ron

The colors via HD delivery can be more saturated. Also, if your SD connection from the old Tivo was S-vid or composite it would definitely have worse color reproduction than component/HDMI/DVI would.

Totally agree

ok so 8.1 is still dropping out. Finally found the signal checker (duh) was in the low 80s. So I move antenna around, and finally hold it up high, bamn, 92. So I hang it from ceiling (heh) and jerry rig things.

So weird:

freq signal
27 86-88
30 90-92
40 92 (6.1 68 deg)
43 0-27 (2.1, 68 deg, same dist! ??)
46 88-89 (up from 82)

Why is 43 so bad now when it was rock solid before and is at same location as 40?

While at the market i picked up a Jensen "hdtv" antenna (heh knew it would not work) and it didn't, so am back to my original set up. NBC is around 88 or so, and still drops out. Must be multipath. Guess I will just wait for NBC to go onto the sat and use the OTA for the other channels. WIll return the joke antenna when I get cereal tomorrow :)

NBC has been dropping out this morning as well. It's not us, it's them!

NBC has been dropping out this morning as well. It's not us, it's them!

Really. It has been dropping out since I got this last Sat, with one good night, then back. Oh well, as soon (if) DTV picks up the locals on Satellite, I can get NBC there. ABC and CBS seem fairly solid.

NBC has been dropping out this morning as well. It's not us, it's them!

It's been really windy for several days now, are you both sure you don't have trees or something blowing around effecting your signal? How often is it dropping out?

Granted I don't watch KGW every minute of the day, but the times I have watched in the past week, everything has been fine here. Maybe it's just a timing thing on my part.

It's been really windy for several days now, are you both sure you don't have trees or something blowing around effecting your signal? How often is it dropping out?

Granted I don't watch KGW every minute of the day, but the times I have watched in the past week, everything has been fine here. Maybe it's just a timing thing on my part.


I didn't see it yesterday or the day before...but it was pretty blocky and jerky this morning every so often during the Today Show (around 8:00). KGW is the worst signal for me (besides 0 KOPB and 0-17 KPTV)

After I read the posts this morning, I suffered through a half hour of Tyra and all of Kelly and Regis and the only issue I noticed is that there was a test of the EAS and it took a few seconds after it ended before audio the came back.

Anyone else having troubles with KWBP?

I just added a Dish 942 to my setup, and now I can't get KWBP at all. Before installing the 942, I was just going into my antenna input with a cable shared with an old dish receiver and the antenna feed. If the receiver was turned off, I was able to get the station OK (although it consistently had audio sync issues). If the receiver was turned on, the signal would drop out.

So now that everything is run through the 942, I can't get it at all. Any ideas? I'm in NE Portland, perfect line-of-sight to all towers, and everything falling within 245-249 degrees. I shouldn't need amplification as all the other channels are fine. Could it be multipath problems??

Any help or thoughts much appreciated.

greg

Anyone else having troubles with KWBP?
KWBP is a toughie. I think they're still running at half power so even close to the towers your antenna has to be right on the money to get a reliable signal.

Even though I almost get a perfect signal from them, about once an hour I get a strange two-second drop-out. Normally when I'm receiving a marginal signal I'll get small packet errors every few minutes in addition to the drop-outs but I'm not having any problems with KWBP except for the two-second drop-outs.

This is probably not multipath. You'd have to be receiving some signal to get multipath.

KWBP is a toughie. I think they're still running at half power so even close to the towers your antenna has to be right on the money to get a reliable signal.

Even though I almost get a perfect signal from them, about once an hour I get a strange two-second drop-out. Normally when I'm receiving a marginal signal I'll get small packet errors every few minutes in addition to the drop-outs but I'm not having any problems with KWBP except for the two-second drop-outs.

This is probably not multipath. You'd have to be receiving some signal to get multipath.


Thanks for the info. It's what I suspected.

Would an amplifier help or just cause problems with the other stations?

Greg,

Not sure what channel KWBP is but I typically get all the local OTA digitals rock solid with the 942. I am about 2 miles due west and in direct line of site of the towers. I use a 5-year old gull wing style Winegard OTA antenna up on top of my roof/chimney. The old 6000 had significantly more drop outs and pixelation lock ups.

With the Dish 942 upgrade did you get the LNB's upgraded/replaced? I had a Dish 6000 dual dish set up previously, along with an amplified distribution mess, and most of the hardware had to be replaced (sans the actual dish(es)). I can't recall the exact LNB lingo, but depending on how new your system was, you may need new LNB's and maybe even a new Dish (500 or the new 1000) to pick up all 3 sats now.

Ciao,
Kenreau

Would an amplifier help or just cause problems with the other stations?
If you're that close to the towers, there's no reason you should need an amplifier and that will more likely cause problems. You should really try slowly and carefully adjusting your antenna. If you have a very directional high gain antenna, you won't be able to pick up KWBP unless the antenna is right on the money.

kenreau has some good tips even though I honestly don't know what an LNB is. :confused:

Greg,

Not sure what channel KWBP is but I typically get all the local OTA digitals rock solid with the 942. I am about 2 miles due west and in direct line of site of the towers. I use a 5-year old gull wing style Winegard OTA antenna up on top of my roof/chimney. The old 6000 had significantly more drop outs and pixelation lock ups.

With the Dish 942 upgrade did you get the LNB's upgraded/replaced? I had a Dish 6000 dual dish set up previously, along with an amplified distribution mess, and most of the hardware had to be replaced (sans the actual dish(es)). I can't recall the exact LNB lingo, but depending on how new your system was, you may need new LNB's and maybe even a new Dish (500 or the new 1000) to pick up all 3 sats now.

Ciao,
Kenreau

Yes, the LNB's were upgraded/replaced. I just have the 500, so no Voom yet for me (still on the fence if it's worth the extra cost).

My OTA antenna is a big one (can't remember the model) and everything else comes in great - all between 90 and 100 signal strength, with the occasional dips to 80-85. KWBP shows if I go into the manual channel setting on the 942, but the signal is around 60, so the receiver won't store the channel. I can get the analog station on channel 5, just not the digital.

I'm going to try going back to the antenna feed coming straight into the antenna input and bypass the dish. I'll lose recording capabilitlies, but hopefully I'll isolate the problem.

thanks

Anyone else getting no reception on 12-1? Stopped getting reception around 12:30 PM.

It's stranger than normal. I'm getting no live picture. I have the HR10-250 from DirecTV. The message I'm getting is "Searching for signal on: Antenna In. etc." and I get no live picture, but when I go backwards, there's picture and sound in the buffer. This isn't happening on other HD channels.

Anyone else getting no reception on 12-1? Stopped getting reception around 12:30 PM.

Gone here.

12-1 is dead for me too but the HD feed DirecTV has out of LA is carrying the game just fine. With the annoying holiday graphic at the top and all!

I edited above to add:

It's stranger than normal. I'm getting no live picture. I have the HR10-250 from DirecTV. The message I'm getting is "Searching for signal on: Antenna In. etc." and I get no live picture, but when I go backwards, there's picture and sound in the buffer. This isn't happening on other HD channels.

12-1 is dead for me too but the HD feed D*TV has out of LA is carrying the game just fine. With the annoying holiday graphic at the top and all!
As mentioned above, I have the game in the buffer, which is okay because I don't always watch live anyway, but in addition to the annoying holiday graphic I get the annoying "Searching for signal on: Antenna In. etc." graphic. How are getting the LA feed? You must have a waiver.

12-1 was gone for me too, and 8-1 is going from 88 to 0 to 88, must be the winds on their transmitter? My antenna is indoors heh.

Yes, I have a waiver for FOX and NBC. It is quite nice to have a back during the inclement weather or all the many issues the local station have with OTA signals.

Also, it will offer alternative football programming some weeks. Hopefully the new CBS owners will grant me a waiver when the FCC finally approves the sale.

This explains why, when watching the Fox game on my HDTiVo, it somehow went from 10 minutes in the third quarter to a wrap-up about the final results!

Most of the channels today have been in and out (not so much on KGW but I haven't been watching it much), guess the wind is playing havoc with the antennas.

I moved my antenna into the guest room, away from the wall and now I get all channels but KATU. lol. So frustrating with an internal antenna. I get 2-1 but it comes and goes. The others seem pretty stable.

Would a pre-amp help with this? I mean it is going through a wall and all.

12-1 was gone for me too, and 8-1 is going from 88 to 0 to 88, must be the winds on their transmitter? My antenna is indoors heh.There were some blackouts in signal over the weekend, but when you see widely fluctuating signal "strength" on your meter like that and it's windy, it's not from wind on the towers, but generally from the wind blowing the trees about around your house. Solid objects moving around like that seems to wreak havoc with DTV signals. I have really seen an improvement with the new receiver I got a couple years ago over the one I had for the first couple of years though.


ron

Anyone else missing OPB?

I'm getting all the digital channels except OPB. Everything is in the 80's and 90's for signal, and i believe OPB was around that strength and now it's gone. I've tried the tuner in my TV and on an 811 receiver. What's frustrating is that I just had that channel. I checked my antenna and it hasn't moved.

My antenna is out on my roof. It's a UHF/VHF medium directional from Radio Shack. From what I can see with my compass I've got that sucker pegged right at 150 degrees. I'm out in St Helens.

BTW, the analog signal for Channel 10 is coming in clear.

Have you tried resetting your receiver? It helps me when I suddenly loose a station or sound or...

ya I've tried resetting the receiver as well as turning the tv off and then back on. it's worked before but this time no such luck.

Grr, I still have all channels but KTU 43. KOIN 40, on the same tower reads 92. channel 43 reads 76. Bleh. So annoying this mess.

It doesn't help that the compasses I got totally change direction as I get near the metal of the antenna heh. I'm currently tilting the antenna upwards (I have it about 6 feet up on a pile of boxes as I have no mast) and that helped with 46 and 30. oddly enough.

Maybe this bowtie antenna just sucks?

Anyone else missing OPB?

I'm getting all the digital channels except OPB. Everything is in the 80's and 90's for signal, and i believe OPB was around that strength and now it's gone. I've tried the tuner in my TV and on an 811 receiver. What's frustrating is that I just had that channel. I checked my antenna and it hasn't moved.

My antenna is out on my roof. It's a UHF/VHF medium directional from Radio Shack. From what I can see with my compass I've got that sucker pegged right at 150 degrees. I'm out in St Helens.

BTW, the analog signal for Channel 10 is coming in clear.

I have the same problem. I can't get the signal for 10-1 and 10-2. I live in Clackamas. I use an attic antenna, so it can't be wind. Also, all other channels are fine.

ok, at least it's not completely my antenna at fault. It's just wierd because I had the channel for a while. I put up my antenna a couple of weeks ago when I got my plasma. wonder when it will return.

I have the same problem. I can't get the signal for 10-1 and 10-2. I live in Clackamas. I use an attic antenna, so it can't be wind. Also, all other channels are fine.


I never had 10-1 or 10-2 so you should consider yourself lucky. Wind or something was playing havoc with MNF tonight, although it seemed to be just a little better through the TV itself instead of the HD-TiVo. Seemed to be having trouble with all channels (although KGW and KOIN come in the best) the past couple of days.


Aaah well, worst case is I watch things in SD for a bit...not a huge problem but more of an annoying one.

KOBP-DT appears to be quite dead, however it's still on Comcast.

I never had 10-1 or 10-2 so you should consider yourself lucky. Wind or something was playing havoc with MNF tonight, although it seemed to be just a little better through the TV itself instead of the HD-TiVo. Seemed to be having trouble with all channels (although KGW and KOIN come in the best) the past couple of days.


Aaah well, worst case is I watch things in SD for a bit...not a huge problem but more of an annoying one.

Did you find out why you couldn't get 10-1 and 10-2? I've been able to get all the HD and SD OTA channels. 10-1, 10-2 are out tonight only.

10-1 and 10-2 have been gone for me all day too. I get everything else, except KWBP (but that's not new).

I'm going back to direct antenna hookup to my display and bypass my Dish receiver to see if it helps...

Did you find out why you couldn't get 10-1 and 10-2? I've been able to get all the HD and SD OTA channels. 10-1, 10-2 are out tonight only.


Never have yet...haven't been brave enough to head up on the roof to try to adjust the antenna. Might try an indoor one just to see what happens, but that'll wait until January.

So, how was Monday Night Football for everybody?

I got video and audio breakups every few seconds and would like to know if it was just my system or if it was KATU-DT.

I ended up watching the HD video while listening to audio from analog (good thing football doesn't need good lip sync.)

So, how was Monday Night Football for everybody?

I got video and audio breakups every few seconds and would like to know if it was just my system or if it was KATU-DT.
Yep I got tons of little packet errors all the way through. I didn't have any problems during the ice storm this weekend.

I'm beginning to think that KATU's transmitter is on the fritz again. It's gone down completely a couple of times recently.

I got the same thing on MNF too. I also lost channel 12 late last night, but was back on this morning. 86%

I got video and audio breakups every few seconds and would like to know if it was just my system or if it was KATU-DT.

I wasn't getting that fequent of problems, in fact the video was mostly good for me. I did have an occasional 1 - 2 sec audio drop.
I switched over to the Comcast feed and had no audio issues with them.
I'd rather watch OTA though as the Comcast feed is a bit softer.

I also lost channel 12 late last night, but was back on this morning.
Both KPTV and KPDX lost their guide data yesterday, they probably re-booted to get things working again.

KOPB-DT has gone missing for me too.

So, how was Monday Night Football for everybody?

I got video and audio breakups every few seconds and would like to know if it was just my system or if it was KATU-DT.

I ended up watching the HD video while listening to audio from analog (good thing football doesn't need good lip sync.)
No problems on Comcast :) (Other than watching Favre & the Packers self-destruct.)

I just exchanged e-mails with Mike at KOPB-DT and it seems they've had a transmitter failure and expect to be back on air by tomorrow. (Wednesday)

Earl

So, how was Monday Night Football for everybody?

I got video and audio breakups every few seconds and would like to know if it was just my system or if it was KATU-DT.

I ended up watching the HD video while listening to audio from analog (good thing football doesn't need good lip sync.)


Watched it through the tv instead of the HD-TiVo and it was bearable. A few blips here and there but it was much better than what the TiVo picked up. Turned the game off at halftime anyway...BORING!

I was about to pick up the phone to call OPB.

Thanks Earl!!!

You guys rock!

ok so I mounted my grill antenna to a 2x4 and hoisted it into the attic. Much better, but 2-1 (43) still bounces around a little. (between 77 and 92) So the question is, if I go get one of these:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&kw=1502160&parentPage=search

and mount in the attic somehow, would it make that much of a difference? Would be be harder to get all stations, being directional? Is this antenna known to suck?

Sorry for all of the questions. When I get this worked out, I'll post here and to my blog for others to benefit from :)

Steve

Hi, new guy here.
I live in Saint Johns area and have no trouble pulling in all
of the stations with my amped rabbit ears.
Both PBS stations have been out for the last couple of days.
There is not even a blip on my signal strength indicator.

I did watch part of Monday Night Football. I didn't notice any
reception problems(blanking or magic squares) and picture
quality was very good, near what the best PBS programs can muster.

Yep I got tons of little packet errors all the way through. I didn't have any problems during the ice storm this weekend.

I'm beginning to think that KATU's transmitter is on the fritz again. It's gone down completely a couple of times recently.

So since this is the only station I am having issues with, should I take this up with them somehow? Is there someone to contact who would be interested?

For me directional works since I'm out a ways from the towers (20-30 miles) so a directional would catch them all. Just about everyone out here in St Helens has a directional. If you are close in i think the answer would be a multi-directional? (guys correct me if i'm wrong). I'm pulling in everything in the mid 80s to low 90s. WB32 comes in upper 70s.

I got the UHF/VHF from Radio Shack. What you're looking at is identical to my UHF portion. I would think it would be fine.

For me directional works since I'm out a ways from the towers (20-30 miles) so a directional would catch them all. Just about everyone out here in St Helens has a directional. If you are close in i think the answer would be a multi-directional? (guys correct me if i'm wrong). I'm pulling in everything in the mid 80s to low 90s. WB32 comes in upper 70s.

I got the UHF/VHF from Radio Shack. What you're looking at is identical to my UHF portion. I would think it would be fine.

Thanks. I am only 6.1 miles out. Since i had some ghosting when I plugged the antenna into my VCR, I think this is multipath. And directional would help? Or am I so close I'd only see one tower but not the other?

Then I need to find an easy mount, I really can't get into my attic all that well, is full of insulation. Right now I have stapped the ant to a 2x4 with zip ties (hung it on a nail first) and then mounted the 2x4 to a cross brace.

So since this is the only station I am having issues with, should I take this up with them somehow? Is there someone to contact who would be interested?
Let's wait a couple of days and see if they get it fixed. That's what we've done the last six or seven times they've had these kind of problems.

Let's wait a couple of days and see if they get it fixed. That's what we've done the last six or seven times they've had these kind of problems.

ok, I also emailed their engineers asking if there were any known issues.

>And directional would help? Or am I so close I'd only see one tower but not the other?

--------

oh you're close. i don't think you want just a directional because of not being able to catch every tower. probably a small multi-directional of some sort. have you tried a grill? or is that what you're using now? I don't have a lot of knowledge on off-air antennas, just what people have told me but a small multi-directional should fit the bill.

Thanks. I am only 6.1 miles out. Since i had some ghosting when I plugged the antenna into my VCR, I think this is multipath. And directional would help? Or am I so close I'd only see one tower but not the other?
I'm also six miles from the towers and I also have that exact same antenna. Yes, it won't do a good job of pulling in both groups of stations at that distance. I was able to get some signal by aiming between them but it was not reliable. By someone's suggestion I removed the four front elements from the boom to make it less directional and now aiming it between to the two groups of towers works perfectly.

At our close distance, we don't need that much gain (except for KWBP at the moment) but it sure helps to have a directional antenna to fight off multipath.

I'm also six miles from the towers and I also have that exact same antenna. Yes, it won't do a good job of pulling in both groups of stations at that distance. I was able to get some signal by aiming between them but it was not reliable. By someone's suggestion I removed the four front elements from the boom to make it less directional and now aiming it between to the two groups of towers works perfectly.

At our close distance, we don't need that much gain (except for KWBP at the moment) but it sure helps to have a directional antenna to fight off multipath.

Thanks, scowl, very interesting. And you are having 2-1 issues as well?

I should note that I am in Aloha, near 185th and baseline.

Thanks, scowl, very interesting. And you are having 2-1 issues as well?
Yep I've had continous little packet errors since Monday night, just enough to cause small glitches every few seconds.

Yep I've had continous little packet errors since Monday night, just enough to cause small glitches every few seconds.

ok I bought the rat shack, mast and mounted it, kinda. It is a little hacked in there because I can't get up into the attic.

The results are exactly the same (even with front 4 elements), and katu popping up and down between 79 and 92.

So I guess we'll wait and see if they respond!

I think I'll keep this antenna, as it is a better outdoor antenna than the BBQ and I bet it does much better in poorer conditions. I just need to mount it more securely, somehow. Sucks without a ladder :)

The results are exactly the same (even with front 4 elements), and katu popping up and down between 79 and 92.
Are all the other channels stable including KWBP?