Are all the other channels stable including KWBP?

Yes, 6-1, 8-1, 12-1, 32-1. OPB is totally out (10-1)

2-1 bounces from 78-90.

That's about what you can expect. Make sure you get KPDX 48/49-1 too and keep your eye on KWBP to see if you get sudden brief drop outs.

That's about what you can expect. Make sure you get KPDX 48/49-1 too and keep your eye on KWBP to see if you get sudden brief drop outs.

Yep 49-1 is rock solid also.

I just exchanged e-mails with Mike at KOPB-DT and it seems they've had a transmitter failure and expect to be back on air by tomorrow. (Wednesday)

Earl

Thanks Earl. I wish OPB would say something about the outage on their website. This appears to be a complete black-out for at least 2 days.

OPB is back on the air. However the signal is low. I'm getting 68%.

OPB is back on the air. However the signal is low. I'm getting 68%.

I've got 84-87

Is anyone getting a solid 2-1 (43) unlike scowl and myself?

Is anyone getting a solid 2-1 (43) unlike scowl and myself?


I'm getting 87%

I'm getting 87%

It is annoying that mine is bouncing around, only one station! Sigh.

KATU is all better for me now.

Good thing too because they'll be rerunning an episode of Lost that was SD in the first fifteen minutes when it first aired.

I've got 84-87


I am not getting anything. I just rescanned the channels, and OPB did not even register in the line-up of the digital channels!

HZ

Been going nuts thinking i did something wrong.Getting next to nothing off of Hawthorne today. Hoping it's better tonight.

KATU was amazingly solid during Lost this evening. A whole heck of a lot of rain, wind, and large swaying trees and I only experienced a half second drop twice.

KATU is all better for me now.

Good thing too because they'll be rerunning an episode of Lost that was SD in the first fifteen minutes when it first aired.

KATU is rock solid for me now also! Just hope the antenna does not fall over :)

I am not getting anything. I just rescanned the channels, and OPB did not even register in the line-up of the digital channels!

HZ


Did you try manually tuning it in? scan channel 27. I had to do that because the auto scan didn't pick it up. I'm only getting 60% on OPB.

KATU is rock solid for me now also! Just hope the antenna does not fall over :)


What changed to give you better signal? did you fine tune the antenna or did the signal just jump up?

What changed to give you better signal? did you fine tune the antenna or did the signal just jump up?

They fixed something, same for scowl. KATU is ok now. I changed nothing.

OPB was fine all night till just now and broke up for 10s, now is ok again.

[QUOTE=sriggins]They fixed something, same for scowl. KATU is ok now. I changed nothing.


very cool. Glad to know it's not an antenna problem. Now if everyone can just stay on the air....... :D

I'm in a strange situation. Getting almost all channels at about 85% for once with rabbit ears but audio only. :(

Update on OPB digital

Spoke to someone at OPB few minutes ago, who confirmed that their transmitter is OFF! They are expecting a part via FEDEX, and it should be arriving any minute now!:) They expect to be back on the air soon after.

HZ

I'm in a strange situation. Getting almost all channels at about 85% for once with rabbit ears but audio only. :(

Are you using the tuner in your tv or do you have a satellite receiver? I just talked with someone that said you are not getting the complete bandwidth of the signal to catch the video portion because audio comes in at a lower frequency. If you are using a satellite receiver it should always be working. in theory i guess.

Are you using the tuner in your tv or do you have a satellite receiver? I just talked with someone that said you are not getting the complete bandwidth of the signal to catch the video portion because audio comes in at a lower frequency. If you are using a satellite receiver it should always be working. in theory i guess.


I'm using the TV tuner.Funny thing is i've not had this problem until the past couple of days. All digital channels i can hear but not see.And the signal meter is better than it's ever been.Rescanned channels,swapped inputs,very strange.Hoping it's not a issue with my new Toshiba.

I'm using the TV tuner.Funny thing is i've not had this problem until the past couple of days. All digital channels i can hear but not see.And the signal meter is better than it's ever been.Rescanned channels,swapped inputs,very strange.Hoping it's not a issue with my new Toshiba.Sure sounds to me like an issue with the TV.... ATSC is really an all or nothing sort of thing. I've had no end of drop outs OTA, but always sound and video at the same time.
Are you using the tuner in your tv or do you have a satellite receiver? I just talked with someone that said you are not getting the complete bandwidth of the signal to catch the video portion because audio comes in at a lower frequency. If you are using a satellite receiver it should always be working. in theory i guess. I think the person you spoke to is thinking NTSC, not ATSC. And an ATSC tuner in a satellite receiver is no different from one built in to a set.

very cool. Glad to know it's not an antenna problem. Now if everyone can just stay on the air....... :D
It's really annoying when stations put out marginal signals for days and days like KATU was throwing at us. It's hard not to assume something is wrong with your antenna and end up screwing up your perfectly aimed antenna trying to figure out what's wrong. :mad:

It's really annoying when stations put out marginal signals for days and days like KATU was throwing at us. It's hard not to assume something is wrong with your antenna and end up screwing up your perfectly aimed antenna trying to figure out what's wrong. :mad:

Or, like myself, you have to ask if others are seeing the same thing, wasting everybody's time.

Or, like myself, you have to ask if others are seeing the same thing, wasting everybody's time.

Yeah but at least I met nice local peeps in the process :)

I just got s Samsung 451 and was wondering if Comcast has any unsrambled QAM channels such as the local HDTV channels????

Sure sounds to me like an issue with the TV.... ATSC is really an all or nothing sort of thing. I've had no end of drop outs OTA, but always sound and video at the same time.
I think the person you spoke to is thinking NTSC, not ATSC. And an ATSC tuner in a satellite receiver is no different from one built in to a set.


Focused on the TV itself.I reset it and it was fixed.Hopefully that's a one time ordeal.But now all my channels are clear as a bell with my new SB2 from antennadirect.com.

I just got s Samsung 451 and was wondering if Comcast has any unsrambled QAM channels such as the local HDTV channels????

They have a bunch of locals except for 6 and their are usually a bunch of on demand stuff on 94, 100, and 114 rf channels.
I hope your works better then the one I tried, the video was very nice with it though, have fun.

Just bought my first HDTV Samung LCD. I need to get a HDTV Indoor Antenna
How is HD reception from NE Portland?
Specifically NE 33rd and Knott Area.

There are no tall trees between my house and Downtown within site.

Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated.

How is HD reception from NE Portland?
Specifically NE 33rd and Knott Area.
Excellent. You'll be line-of-sight to the towers and you'll have super-strong signals.

There's always the potential of multipath in areas of strong signals so anticipate taking back any antenna you buy in case you need something better. You can try a cheap indoor antenna and see if that works. If you experience multipath, you'll have to try something more directional.

OPB must be operating at full power now. My signal is 85%. When they came back on Wednesday it was only at 60.

OPB must be operating at full power now. My signal is 85%. When they came back on Wednesday it was only at 60.

Not quite in this neck of the woods. OPB digital (10.1 or 10.2) is still at zero percent!

OPB must be operating at full power now. My signal is 85%. When they came back on Wednesday it was only at 60.

I getting a big fat ZERO for OPB.This weekend it's to the roof i go.Wish me luck up there.

KOPB is coming in full blast here too so I think you're on the right track (unfortunately). Attic antennas are convenient sometimes.

KOPB is coming in full blast here too so I think you're on the right track (unfortunately). Attic antennas are convenient sometimes.

Attic is a bedroom so i'm stuck with the outside.What's really scary is that the direction i need to go is a huge 40 tree.Maybe it will help a little that it's leaves have all fallen off.

Attic is a bedroom so i'm stuck with the outside.
My antenna is in on a shelf in a bedroom closet up there. :D

What's really scary is that the direction i need to go is a huge 40 tree.Maybe it will help a little that it's leaves have all fallen off.
It will... for a while.

Has anyone noticed a big difference between 80% signal and one much higher even to 100%?

Has anyone noticed a big difference between 80% signal and one much higher even to 100%?
I get the north tower stations (KGW, KPTV, etc) at 93%-97% and the south tower stations (KOIN, KATU, etc) at 82%-85%. They're behind a 14 story concrete building at my location.

The north tower stations never have any problems. I can have them on for hours and not get a single error packet. I might as well have a cable connected to them.

The south tower stations might give me at most one packet error every hour. Since a packet is only 188 bytes, it's usually not noticeable. KWBP has been running at half power for some time and their 75% signal will usually give me a packet error every ten minutes and a major glitch a couple of times an hour.

Note that I'm using a second generation ATSC receiver. The third and fourth generation receivers do much better than this.

I get the north tower stations (KGW, KPTV, etc) at 93%-97% and the south tower stations (KOIN, KATU, etc) at 82%-85%. They're behind a 14 story concrete building at my location.

The north tower stations never have any problems. I can have them on for hours and not get a single error packet. I might as well have a cable connected to them.

The south tower stations might give me at most one packet error every hour. Since a packet is only 188 bytes, it's usually not noticeable. KWBP has been running at half power for some time and their 75% signal will usually give me a packet error every ten minutes and a major glitch a couple of times an hour.

Note that I'm using a second generation ATSC receiver. The third and fourth generation receivers do much better than this.


How about the PQ?

Whatever you do, don't get him started about PQ and the sub channels!

How about the PQ?
This is digital television. We all receive the exact same ones and zeros regardless of the signal strength.

I live in Vancouver, WA. I have Dish Network SAT system with HDTV receiver. I want to try and get the off air HDTV channels that I can't get with my SAT system. I have a Jensen Antena that is suposed to receive HDTV signal, but I am getting nothing. Anyone in Vancouver getting HDTV over the air? What antena should I be going with? Anything I could get at radio shack would be nice, it is just down the street.

David

I live in Vancouver, WA. I have Dish Network SAT system with HDTV receiver. I want to try and get the off air HDTV channels that I can't get with my SAT system. I have a Jensen Antena that is suposed to receive HDTV signal, but I am getting nothing. Anyone in Vancouver getting HDTV over the air? What antena should I be going with? Anything I could get at radio shack would be nice, it is just down the street.

David

Did you auto-scan the TV for channels??Mine didn't pick em up until i did so.

Looking for the Christmas miracle of KATU throwing the damn HD switch before halftime on the Pistons/San Ant. game

-------------------------------------------------------

Alas, no miracle this year.... I think this says a couple of things:

If I were someone in ABC Sports operations, I'd be kicking some affiliate butt if I were paying the extra freight to do a program in HD and couldn't get it aired because some guy is asleep in MC

Kind of an indication of how far the NBA has dropped off.... The two teams that have won the Championship in the last three years are on TV and not a peep from HD viewers that it's not in HD... errr, it is, but it isn't.

Must be making folks that are setting up an HD set for Christmas nuts !!!

I imagine people in Portland trying out the HDTV's they just got for Christmas and wondering why the game looks so crappy in HD.

Looking for the Christmas miracle of KATU throwing the damn HD switch before halftime on the Pistons/San Ant. game

-------------------------------------------------------

Alas, no miracle this year.... I think this says a couple of things:

If I were someone in ABC Sports operations, I'd be kicking some affiliate butt if I were paying the extra freight to do a program in HD and couldn't get it aired because some guy is asleep in MC

Kind of an indication of how far the NBA has dropped off.... The two teams that have won the Championship in the last three years are on TV and not a peep from HD viewers that it's not in HD... errr, it is, but it isn't.

Must be making folks that are setting up an HD set for Christmas nuts !!!



I was taping it to watch later but saw a current score at the in-laws house so I watched the end of it (they don't have HD). Came home and saw that the signal looked HD (in PQ) but it wasn't full screen. Didn't fast forward through it to see when it actually switched to HD...but noticed the Heat/Lakers game was HD the whole time.


Unbelievable...all of this technology still controlled by a guy and a button.

Came home and saw that the signal looked HD (in PQ) but it wasn't full screen.
SD basketball looks especially bad because the interlacing and low resoution causes lots of staircasing in the lines on the court when the camera moves. Once you notice it, you'll never mistake it for HD again.

SD basketball looks especially bad because the interlacing and low resoution causes lots of staircasing in the lines on the court when the camera moves. Once you notice it, you'll never mistake it for HD again.


Sorry but it didn't look like non-HD at all...just that it wasn't wide-screen. Or maybe I just have a better tv than you.
:)

Did you auto-scan the TV for channels??Mine didn't pick em up until i did so.

Yes, I auto scaned using my Dish Neywork HDTV Receiver, got nothing on any channel in HD, got a bunch in anolog.

Yes, I auto scaned using my Dish Neywork HDTV Receiver, got nothing on any channel in HD, got a bunch in anolog.

We may be talking about 2 different things here.I was thinking you were wanting to get network HD (ABC,CBS,NBC,etc.) from coaxial antenna(rabbit ears maybe?).If that's the case and you have a built in HD tuner in your TV you'll need to auto scan the TV not the SAT.You'll need to change from the SAT input to the antenna input in your TV menu.And a cheap antenna may even work. www.antennaweb.org to find your required set for your area.I just gave up and ordered the DB2 from http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_Indoor_antenna.html. Came in 3 days and cost as much as THE SHACK.

We may be talking about 2 different things here.I was thinking you were wanting to get network HD (ABC,CBS,NBC,etc.) from coaxial antenna(rabbit ears maybe?).If that's the case and you have a built in HD tuner in your TV you'll need to auto scan the TV not the SAT.You'll need to change from the SAT input to the antenna input in your TV menu.And a cheap antenna may even work. to find your required set for your area.I just gave up and ordered the DB2 from Came in 3 days and cost as much as THE SHACK.

No, you under stood me correctly. My TV does not have a built in HD tuner, it is a projector. My DishPlayer HDTV receiver, however, has an external antena port which allows you to hook up your own antena for off-air Network HD reception. The DishPlayer also has a menu functiion for scanning these off-air HDTV channels 2-69 with a signial level meter. I am not able to get any of the HD channels to register, but I am getting the SD analog channels, so I know the antena port is working. I also know the atnena is suposed to support HDTV reception. So I am trying to figure out if I need a better antena or what.

Thanks,

David

Hello to all. I've been reading the posts here for a while . Looking towards the day I got my own HDTV Tuner . Well that day has come! I got a good deal from ebay on a new in box Sylvania SRZ3000 . While not a LG ,folks here seem to rate it well(and it was much cheaper!). Hooked it up and it works well! I am happy to say i get a good picture on all the Portland stations! I am on 24th AVE in NW . So can see the towers outside and antenna web says I'm apox 2miles from the towers. I'm using one of the Rat shack Twin bowtie's indoor UHF antennas. I bought it years ago but they recently started selling them again as HDTV ready(for $14.99 in case anyone is interested)! The only issue is I have to adjust the antenna a lot when changing stations. No matter where I place it one or two stations won't work. It seems very directional more so then I would have expected. A very small movement makes all the difference. 12.1 & 2.1 are the ones that are the pickiest with 49-1 sometimes joining the list. Stations listed by antennaweb as being on the same tower need different placement etc. Signal strength shows as high as 95% or so . However picture seems fine as low as high 30's low 40's for the non picky stations. My question: Should I just be happy I get every station well ;-) ? or is there a way to not have to move the antenna so much? Worth trying an attenuator or maybe the silver sensor antenna? I'm guessing the Silver sensor is at least as directional as the twin bowtie maybe more so ? Thanks in advance for any sugestions.
PS KATU HD is sure having audio issues the last few days more often then not as mentioned before on the list.

David, there's no difference between an analog and a digital (HDTV) antenna. If you're able to pick up the analog signals you should be able to get the digital ones too. Maybe there is a setting on your box for ATSC you've overlooked?

Welcome to HD and the forum Schwinn.
I used to be preoccupied with getting the highest signal reading I could on each station, what I've found though is it really doesn't matter if the station is at 60% or 95%. As long as you're not getting dropouts I wouldn't worry about what the signal meter has to say. The picture and sound will be the same. As long as you can find a spot where they all come in, just leave it there. If you do have to re-aim to get different channels, try changing the height or location of the antenna and not just the direction it's pointing. That may solve your trouble too.

Earl

David do you have multiple options as to what type of signal you can scan for? If so, make sure you are scanning for the digital channels.

David do you have multiple options as to what type of signal you can scan for? If so, make sure you are scanning for the digital channels.

Thanks for your help everyone. Turns out I just wasn't aiming my antena very well, I didn't realize how percise it has to be.

Cool, glad you got it working. HDTV is a great way to issue in the new year!! :)

Sorry but it didn't look like non-HD at all...just that it wasn't wide-screen. Or maybe I just have a better tv than you.
:)
Once people start pointing out the differences between SD and HD, you'll be able to tell the difference. Remember we've been watching crappy NTSC our whole lives and our brains have been trained to ignore ugliness like low resolution details and interlacing artifacts.

KGW has added an SD sub-channel to go along with the weather sub they already had. :(

Do you think if we all write and ask nicely they'll turn it back off?

KGW has added an SD sub-channel to go along with the weather sub they already had. :(
I thought they've had two subs for some time now. Their network SD subchannel has always been a laughable mess:

http://home.pacifier.com/~scowl/hdtv/nbc-sd.jpg

All my 3100a has been locking in recently has been the main 8-1 and the weather 8-2. Today is the first time I noticed that 8-3 had been added, though it could have happened yesterday.

8-1 looks worse much worse tonight too. Any motion at all and the picture falls apart.

That beautiful screen capture was from this summer when they added the Block-o-Weather channel so I'm pretty sure they've been destroying their HD channel for several months now.

does anyone know if the rose bowl will be in HD?

I noticed 8-3 last night, it just seems to have reappeared. Maybe they had turned it off and have just turned it back on.

8-3 has been off and on intermittently in the past few months. During Katrina and Rita they used it to rebroadcast New Orleans and then Houston channels.

does anyone know if the rose bowl will be in HD?
Check the HD Programming News (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=440744&highlight=rose+bowl) in the HDTV Programming forum. fredfa keeps it updated every day.

Anyone still having problems with KATU reception? I came back from vacation to find OPB (which was of course completely down) and KGW (which had been choppy for me) back up and beautiful. No such luck with KATU - although KOIN, on the same tower, comes in perfectly. I'm in the SW, about 6 miles from the towers. Up until a few weeks ago, KATU was a very strong station for me...

Although KATU-DT was fine during Monday Night Footbal, I happend to tune in the next morning and it was having the usual picture and audio breakups.

Don't think this is a reception issue -- they are broadcasting a bogus signal.

I just got s Samsung 451 and was wondering if Comcast has any unsrambled QAM channels such as the local HDTV channels????

I just got one of these for xmas. I only got 2 stations with cable (one was Starz) but I get all of the stations (2-6-8-10-12-32-49) OTA so I'm happy with it. Much more sensitive than the Dish 811 tuner. Picture quality is excellent and I'm using the DVI input mostly because the other two component inputs are being used by my DVD/DVR players.
Dolby Digital sounds wonderful and the unit itself is silent.
Overall I like the Samsung 451.

I just got one of these for xmas. I only got 2 stations with cable (one was Starz) but I get all of the stations (2-6-8-10-12-32-49) OTA so I'm happy with it.
I'm really confused by this. I get many HD stations on Comcast cable in Tualatin. Are you sure you changed your tuner mode from OTA to cable? The channel assignments are quite different. The other possible problem is that your cable signal is split too many ways. Can you try your tuner right where cable enters your house, before any splitters?

On the other hand, I can see your point. If you're getting good OTA, then maybe you should just leave well-enough alone.

I, too, have only picked up few Starz channels on Comcast. I'll also get the PBS channel and Comcasts' program guide mini-channel.

I attribute the content one receives to several factors:

1) Subscription content? I have basic cable, which means Comcast places a bandpass filter to remove channels from about 33 to 71. There may be the other local channels there.

2) Clear channel QAM only. I don't know which channels are encrypted, but my tuner will only get unencrypted

3) What's currently playing on your cable segment? I notice that the content depends on whether someone else in your neighborhood just happens to be playing those channels down your segment, because I've noted that sometimes I'll see a scene rewind, fast forward or stop abruptly. So it appears, this would be an On-Demand content.

See my recent post in the Comcast thread about location of HD locals in Tualatin:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6784135&&#post6784135

I also have the limited basic service. There aren't any HD locals in the blocked out channels 33 to 71. Those all carry NTSC programming. The filter doesn't need to block out anything above CATV channel 71 since Comcast doesn't carry any NTSC above that frequency. I presume it's all digital QAM above there, therefore the average TV can't display it. Tualatin appears to be a 750 MHz system. I haven't seen anything above approx channel 114 or 115 (I forget which). But it's possible they are using higher channels for cable modem downstream.

I also see quite a bit of on-demand programming. For example, someone often entertains their kids with Teletubbies and Thomas the Tank Engine. But I've also seen more mature stuff like The Sopranos and Sex and the City. Too bad the on-demand stuff is all SD.

I'm really confused by this. I get many HD stations on Comcast cable in Tualatin. Are you sure you changed your tuner mode from OTA to cable? The channel assignments are quite different. The other possible problem is that your cable signal is split too many ways. Can you try your tuner right where cable enters your house, before any splitters?

On the other hand, I can see your point. If you're getting good OTA, then maybe you should just leave well-enough alone.

You could be right about too many splitters. The signal path I used included a DVR prior to the STB. Anyway I do get excellent reception OTA using just a double bowtie indoor antenna I ordered from Radio Shack. Cost $15. It's a wierd looking thing (like a space heater element) but it works very well. Here's the URL if you are interested:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103058&cp=&fbn=Brand%2FRadioShack&f=Brand%2F1000094%2F&fbc=1&kw=indoor+uhf+antenna&parentPage=search
If I used QAM I probably wouldn't get as good a signal as I do OTA and I wouldn't get channel 6 or 49, so as you say I should 'just leave well enough alone' which hasn't been my practice in the past. :rolleyes:

Actually the signal strength on every QAM signal I get from Comcast is 98%-100% so you probably would get better signals, but since they're digital that doesn't make any difference. I don't bother with locals on Comcast because like you say, no KOIN and no KPDX make it easier to get them all with an antenna.

Has anyone been successful using Windows Media Center with a digital QAM tuner card, like the AverMedia A180 I have, to receive HD channels over Comcast standard cable? I'm in Sellwood and just using the cable alone provided no HD channels. Perhaps Media Center needs to know more about how to find the channels off the line. Am I correct in assuming at this point that if I have standard cable channels through 99 I should be able to get the HD channels through the line?

Has anyone been successful using Windows Media Center with a digital QAM tuner card, like the AverMedia A180 I have, to receive HD channels over Comcast standard cable?

You may try asking this question in the local Comcast thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3077504&&#post3077504

Many people read both, but you never know ...

I just posted this in the local Comcast thread and thought I would do it here, too, in case there may be some who do not look at both threads.

Slightly OT here but looking for input.

I subscribe to a dozen or so forum threads including this one so that I get email notice whenever someone posts to the thread(s). A few weeks ago I noted an absence of emails from AVS to my email account at Verizon, my DSL ISP. I looked at all the setting and preferences in my accounts at AVS, Verizon and my own email filters and could not discern why I wasn't getting the email notices. There had been new posts to the threads at AVS I subscribe to so I should have had emails. Trying to get any help at Verizon is like asking technical questions of a Comcast service rep. :eek:

So I changed my email destination for AVS notices to my Yahoo account and I've been getting them ever since. I'm convinced something changed at Verizon to block AVS messages around 12/13 and was wondering if anyone else locally uses Verizon DSL and had a similar experience with AVS messages. Anyone?

Thanks and Happy New Year to everyone!

Once people start pointing out the differences between SD and HD, you'll be able to tell the difference. Remember we've been watching crappy NTSC our whole lives and our brains have been trained to ignore ugliness like low resolution details and interlacing artifacts.


Like I said, I have a better tv than you...and eyes.


hth

Like I said, I have a better tv than you...and eyes.
If you can't distinquish HD from SD and I can then how does that make your eyes better than mine? Are you watching an EDTV? :confused:

Has anyone had any luck getting waivers to get the west feeds of any of the networks?

I applied for all of them, I can't get 2,6, sometimes 8, and sometimes 12.

I am in Lafayette.

Can anyone comfirm that 2-1 is down?

Can anyone comfirm that 2-1 is down?

KATU is working here. Desperate housewives in HD. 90%

Has anyone had any luck getting waivers to get the west feeds of any of the networks?

I applied for all of them, I can't get 2,6, sometimes 8, and sometimes 12.

I am in Lafayette.


I am in St Helens, you are about as far away from Portland Metro as I am and only KGW would give me distant NBC. That was on DIRECTV. I switched to DISH about a year ago. I haven't tried with them yet. But I had tried and tried with many waivers and KGW is the only one that allowed it.

I am able to get waivers from DirecTV for channel 8 and channel 12. Thankfully, they gave me 12 since it is one of the more flaky stations for me once the weather starts getting stormy.

If you can't distinquish HD from SD and I can then how does that make your eyes better than mine? Are you watching an EDTV? :confused:



Nope, it's HDTV...then again it's not a puny 37 inch "Quasar" either.
:)

Can anyone comfirm that 2-1 is down?


2-1 is up...but the ABC feed for the Fiesta Bowl had some major black lines every now and then (this was also true for just 2 on DirecTV)

Yes, 2-1 is up but the audio issues means it often can't be watched. Sound goes in and out quickly making it imposible to hear what is going on.

Hmmm, I had no issues at all watching the Orange Bowl last night OTA, except for the fact ABC chose to not broadcast in 5.1. Looking forward to 5.1 tonight.

BTW, thanks to KATU for giving us a geat picture last night - and thanks to OSU and FSU for a great game!

Some of those orange bowl cameras looked good. Others seemed to be delivering a pretty fair bit of artifacting. The audio was definitely a let down but the ending of the game was entertaining. Those poor kickers were doing their best to give everybody a long show I guess :D.


ron

Nope, it's HDTV...then again it's not a puny 37 inch "Quasar" either.
:)
I replaced my Quasar with an HDTV over two years ago! I think it was a 26 inch one though and worked for almost twenty years until my cat broke it.

I replaced my Quasar with an HDTV over two years ago! I think it was a 26 inch one though and worked for almost twenty years until my cat broke it.


I think you mean hdtv instead of HDTV. Size does matter. I thought 37 inch non-hdtv's were small...but 37 inch hdtv's? Yikes!

Size has nothing to do with it. If you mistook an upconverted SD feed for HD then your eyes are not very attuned to PQ, or your set does not do a very good job producing HD. It should be quite obvious which is which otherwise.


ron

I replaced my Quasar with an HDTV over two years ago! I think it was a 26 inch one though and worked for almost twenty years until my cat broke it.Your cat broke it? Were you watching something he objected to?

Size has nothing to do with it. If you mistook an upconverted SD feed for HD then your eyes are not very attuned to PQ, or your set does not do a very good job producing HD. It should be quite obvious which is which otherwise.
The difference between SD and HD is obvious even on a $200 17" XVGA monitor. Of course the guys at Circuit City don't want their customers to know this.

Your cat broke it? Were you watching something he objected to?
He thought he'd do me a favor that day and throw up on something other than the carpet. Within seconds my trusty Quasar was little more than a large radio. A few minutes later I searched on the Internet and found that "HDTV" was being broadcast OTA in Portland. Wow, that was news to me. I thought that was years away.

So Ron, you finally bit clear through that sucker, eh? :D

He thought he'd do me a favor that day and throw up on something other than the carpet. Within seconds my trusty Quasar was little more than a large radio.

I got in trouble once for having pussy on my set ... whole different scenario though. :eek:

Size has nothing to do with it. If you mistook an upconverted SD feed for HD then your eyes are not very attuned to PQ, or your set does not do a very good job producing HD. It should be quite obvious which is which otherwise.


ron



Size actually does have something to do with it. My eyes are fine...37 inch run of the mill hdtv's are a little different than a Sony 50A10.


hope
this
helps

So Ron, you finally bit clear through that sucker, eh? :DYeah, I'm bleeding all over the place now. I was trying to hold back but at some point my lack of patience shows through and I just can't stop myself. I will agree with the rifleman on one thing though. The A10 is a fine looking set... when it's off.


ron

Yeah, I'm bleeding all over the place now. I was trying to hold back but at some point my lack of patience shows through and I just can't stop myself. I will agree with the rifleman on one thing though. The A10 is a fine looking set... when it's off.


ron



Good to hear, thanks ron!
:eek:

The difference between SD and HD is obvious even on a $200 17" XVGA monitor. Of course the guys at Circuit City don't want their customers to know this.



Are you a manager at the competiting Best Buy? XVGA, what a waste of a decent video card!

Size actually does have something to do with it. My eyes are fine...37 inch run of the mill hdtv's are a little different than a Sony 50A10.
Please listen to what we're saying -- if the only difference you can see between SD and HD is that SD has black bars on the sides then something is very wrong. I can tell the difference between HD and SD even on a cheap VGA monitor.

Your display is only 1280x720 so you won't see as much difference between 1080i and 720p as I can on my higher resolution 37" display but you should see a clear difference between SD and HD.

Scowl, I agree. For a year I used my computer monitor for HDTV until I saved up enough for a real HDTV. It looked a ton better than the 24" SDTV we had.

Hey did anyone catch the HDTV segment on KGW news at around 6:45pm?

Please listen to what we're saying -- if the only difference you can see between SD and HD is that SD has black bars on the sides then something is very wrong. I can tell the difference between HD and SD even on a cheap VGA monitor.

Your display is only 1280x720 so you won't see as much difference between 1080i and 720p as I can on my higher resolution 37" display but you should see a clear difference between SD and HD.


I can see a noticeable difference between 1080i and 720p on my tv...maybe your eyes need to be checked.

I bet my 21 inch Samsung monitor has better resolution than your 37 inch hdtv but you don't hear me tooting my horn about having an HDTV 21 inch monitor. But by just looking at the price you paid for your tv...I think it's YOU who should be listening to others.


Bigger is better.

Scowl, I think it's about time to just ignore our little friend here. He's clearly got something other than PDX OTA programming/reception on his mind. Let him go to the RPTV forum to continue his "mine's better than your's" BS. He should fit right in there. :rolleyes:


ron

Scowl, I think it's about time to just ignore our little friend here. He's clearly got something other than PDX OTA programming/reception on his mind. Let him go to the RPTV forum to continue his "mine's better than your's" BS. He should fit right in there. :rolleyes:


ron


Nope, just pointing out hypocrisies is all I'm doing. I never said the Sony A10 was better than anyone else's...but hey, if 37 inch tv's are the wave of the future, you'll have a lot of pissed off non-techie people.

To the average consumer, bigger is better, and they have a lot more money out there than you do.

While your pissing competition has been minorly enjoyable, please continue your sniping using PM. You are a little off subject for this thread.

I've been waiting for marissadad to chime in. He seems to have fallen off the map.

I'm surprised no one commented on the KGW "HDTV is not always the right choice" segment. Click here to watch the video:
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=45623&catId=131

Some highlights:
Many people are returning their new HDTVs, because they are too complicated to set up in some cases, or don't have a great picture quality.
"the picture doesn't look any better than their old set"
"but trying to tune them in is another matter"
"high def is getting low marks"
Eric Dausman from KGW Engineering commented
Not shown was the comment from the anchors that they did a poll and none of them had HDTVs. :rolleyes: Surprising?

Anything about the Gator Bowl not looking any better in HD this year? :)

I suppose they didn't mention anything about a certain local station ruining their HD picture quality by broadcasting two worthless subchannels.

Anything about the Gator Bowl not looking any better in HD this year? :)

I suppose they didn't mention anything about a certain local station ruining their HD picture quality by broadcasting two worthless subchannels.


I'll agree with you on that scowl. The Gator Bowl was FANTASTIC in HD this year...did NBC just leave their truck in South Bend or are they already on the road to the Winter Olympics? Fox's Cotton Bowl looked pretty good...didn't have as many blips as I normally do with 12-1 through the tv.


NBC will probably have their act in gear by the time the Winter Olympics and the NFL come rolling along again (NBC gets the Sunday night game in 2006).

I'm surprised no one commented on the KGW "HDTV is not always the right choice" segment. Click here to watch the video:
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=45623&catId=131

Some highlights:
Many people are returning their new HDTVs, because they are too complicated to set up in some cases, or don't have a great picture quality.
"the picture doesn't look any better than their old set"
"but trying to tune them in is another matter"
"high def is getting low marks"
Eric Dausman from KGW Engineering commented
Not shown was the comment from the anchors that they did a poll and none of them had HDTVs. :rolleyes: Surprising?


HDTV is still too spendy for many...even though prices are coming down each and every year. I wouldn't have expected any news anchor to have an HDTV...they're probably not home enough to warrant getting one.

I'm surprised no one commented on the KGW "HDTV is not always the right choice" segment. Click here to watch the video:
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=45623&catId=131

Some highlights:
Many people are returning their new HDTVs, because they are too complicated to set up in some cases, or don't have a great picture quality.
"the picture doesn't look any better than their old set"
"but trying to tune them in is another matter"
"high def is getting low marks"
Eric Dausman from KGW Engineering commented
Not shown was the comment from the anchors that they did a poll and none of them had HDTVs. :rolleyes: Surprising?

I just fear that enough of this will slide thru so that they can justify having HD OTA turn into what channel 22 has done -- no channels of HD programming and 4 to six channels of Digital SD crap. Currently my HD watching is dominated by KATU with KOIN a close second (and KATU defininitely has the best looking quality).

BTW HD has brough me back to broadcast and is consuming alot of the watching time that I used to do on satellite channels.

I'm surprised no one commented on the KGW "HDTV is not always the right choice" segment. Click here to watch the video:
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=45623&catId=131

Some highlights:
Many people are returning their new HDTVs, because they are too complicated to set up in some cases, or don't have a great picture quality.
"the picture doesn't look any better than their old set"
"but trying to tune them in is another matter"
"high def is getting low marks"
Eric Dausman from KGW Engineering commented
Not shown was the comment from the anchors that they did a poll and none of them had HDTVs. :rolleyes: Surprising?
I hadn't seen it since I don't watch KGW news. (I have issues with their website registration and privacy policies so I choose not to support any of their news services)
I did watch the video, thanks for the link.
The report centered around the way "analog non-high definition programs" look on HD sets, saying they don't look as good or no better. This is true. It is too bad they didn't give a more complete overview of the technology rather than concentrating on the negatives, but that obviously wasn't their intent with the story.

Even though it is a true enough statement, I did find it a bit ironic that Eric Dausman made the comment, "The picture is only as good as what's being sent, through their cable, through the air, through their satellite....". given the tack KGW is taking with its multiple sub-channels.

Only idiots can't get HD to work. Do they expect to plug the thing into there walls and get all HD channels???

Only idiots can't get HD to work. Do they expect to plug the thing into there walls and get all HD channels???

Isn't that what they can do now with regular cable?

Last time I tried to explain to my mother law that there were two subchannels for PBS I got a blank stare. It's not that they're idiots, it's that they don't live for the stuff like we do.

I do agree though that they did put a pretty negative sping to it. Anytime I hear somebody quote a study saying that people can't tell the difference I have to wonder where they get the subjects, old folk homes?

I do agree though that they did put a pretty negative sping to it.
What I find really incredible is that KGW has invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into broadcasting HD and they supposedly have employees working hard to keep it going. Meanwhile their own news department is telling their viewers it's not worth it! :confused:

So if their news anchors' skin start to have a sickly green look all of a sudden, I'm sure the engineering people will be working hard to solve the color problem. ;)

What I find really incredible is that KGW has invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into broadcasting HD and they supposedly have employees working hard to keep it going. Meanwhile their own news department is telling their viewers it's not worth it! :confused:

So if their news anchors' skin start to have a sickly green look all of a sudden, I'm sure the engineering people will be working hard to solve the color problem. ;)


Not worth it for the non-digital stuff...which is what a good portion of America still watches. Need to have more stuff in HD unfortunately before people start moving to it in masses. I cringe when I see analog cable picture...and it's what many people have still today unfortunately.

I just fear that enough of this will slide thru so that they can justify having HD OTA turn into what channel 22 has done -- no channels of HD programming and 4 to six channels of Digital SD crap. Currently my HD watching is dominated by KATU with KOIN a close second (and KATU defininitely has the best looking quality).

BTW HD has brough me back to broadcast and is consuming alot of the watching time that I used to do on satellite channels.

I too am watching more network programming because of HD. I watched a Nature program about Death Valley today on PBS. The images were stunning.
Most people would like an HD set but there are so many obstacles besides high price.

OK I thought 10.2 was supposed to be the same programming as analog OPB (10), until today! For some reason, 10.2 is showing completely different program/schedule than analog OPB, and of course different than 10.1. Has anyone heard anything about this new lineup?

HZ

I wish I could get PBS. Sigh

I wish I could get PBS. Sigh
Sorry about that. If it is any consolation, I don't get WB, though some may not consider that a fair tradeoff. Conclusion: OTA digital TV has its own share of problems. :)

Ok it's been a while since I've been here so long in fact my user name was no longer valid.

Anyway to the point.

I live in NE Vancouver and I get KGW (70-85%) and KOIN (65-75%) OK but KATU (2.1) is a very week signal (5-65%) and it is not watchable with all the drop outs and freezing. Has any one else been having the same problem?

I have a HR10-250 and a Terk HDTV0 directional antenna pointed at the towers.

I was thinking it's the antenna and was going to try the Terk TV32 barbecue style to see what that does, but if it's the station a new antenna won't help.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys (or gals) can give me.

Ed

OK I thought 10.2 was supposed to be the same programming as analog OPB (10), until today! For some reason, 10.2 is showing completely different program/schedule than analog OPB, and of course different than 10.1. Has anyone heard anything about this new lineup?

HZ
Far as I know, OPB has always done it this way. 10.1 is the HD channel, where 10.2 is a digital broadcast of OPB's analog lineup. The only means I've found of determining the program schedule for 10.1 is on TitanTV. I've found some pretty cool stuff on 10.1 that isn't broadcast on 10.2, and unfortunately, visa versa.

I live in NE Vancouver and I get KGW (70-85%) and KOIN (65-75%) OK but KATU (2.1) is a very week signal (5-65%) and it is not watchable with all the drop outs and freezing. Has any one else been having the same problem?

Ed
Not that this is any help, but I lost KATU over a month ago. Like you, I assume, KOIN comes in just fine - which broadcasts from the same tower. I gather that KATU jacked something up a while ago, then sort of fixed it so at least some folks can receive, but certainly not all. I've fooled with my outdoor directional antenna (Winegard Squareshooter) a-plenty, to no avail. Sorry I can only commiserate - my advice I suppose is to blame KATU, not your antenna.

I called KATU and the engineering guy said they don't seem to have any issues at this time but also said they share the same tower with KOIN and if KOIN is a good signal then they may have a problem. He said he would have a tech go to the site and check it out. I think I will get a bigger antenna just to be safe ( you know what they say bigger is better).

KATU-DT has always been my steadiest performer. When other stations' reception is problematic due to winds, rain, etc., it seems KATU comes in the best. When I need to fiddle with my highly directional Silver Sensor to get other channels to hold steady, KATU gives me the widest range of lattitude with respect to the directionality of the signal. It's one of the technicalities that must be resolved by the broadcasters in order for digital OTA to be embraced by the masses - or, it becomes the selling point by the Comcasts of the world. :(

KATU-DT has always been my steadiest performer. When other stations' reception is problematic due to winds, rain, etc., it seems KATU comes in the best.

This was precisely my experience until recently. Thanks for making that call, FastEddie - we'll see what comes of it!

Over the past two years KATU has had the most trouble keeping their station on the air and remembering to flip the switch. Last year we got at least one episode of Lost in SD because of some technical problem and this year the first fifteen minutes of one episode was in SD. They've also had some flaky transmitter problems this year too.

Even KWBP, while still running at half power, has been more reliable.

Other then their technical issues, I don't have a problem with KATU, it is one of my better stations. The signal has even survived heavy rain, wind, and swaying trees.

I can't really judge because technical issues aside I receive every station perfectly (except for half-power KWBP which gives me a couple of packet errors every hour).

Just got off the phone with Marcus at KATU and they are running less than half power due to a voltage regulator being out on the digital transmitter. He said that the regulator (something you cant buy at Radio shack) should be in at the end of the week and should be back at full power maybe by the weekend. So it makes me feel better that it wasn't my antenna (which I upgraded anyway) was not the problem.

Augh, new episode of Lost this week! Why why why? Damn those electrical thingamajigs!

Poor poor scowl, maybe you should just go buy Lost it seems to be cursed for HD recording. You didn't happen to use a certain sequence of numbers in your filing scheme or something?

I do have the blurry DVD set from the first season.

Well, even at half power KATU is coming in at 85% so I guess I'm OK.

I do have the blurry DVD set from the first season.

Well, even at half power KATU is coming in at 85% so I guess I'm OK.

Lucky bastard... I'm sitting at 25-30% and drops to 5%

I live in NE Vancouver and I get KGW (70-85%) and KOIN (65-75%) OK but KATU (2.1) is a very week signal (5-65%) and it is not watchable with all the drop outs and freezing. Has any one else been having the same problem?

I have a HR10-250 and a Terk HDTV0 directional antenna pointed at the towers.

I was thinking it's the antenna and was going to try the Terk TV32 barbecue style to see what that does, but if it's the station a new antenna won't help.


KATU is fine for me now, and I have consistent issues with a handful of the other stations. I'd recommend a different antenna. Even if you get a better signal when KATU goes back to full power, you'll probably want a consistently higher signal strength for your other stations, since you should be able to easily get that from Vancouver.

I got only two bad packets during Lost and they were both during commercials! I'm getting KATU and KWBP at about the same quality right now (about two glitches an hour).

I've only had my HDTV receiver since Christmas. I'm lucky enough to have a great picture on all the Portland stations. As mentioned before I'm using an inside twin bowtie from rat shack. I do have to aim the antenna carefully. 12.1 is the most picky and has the lowest signal strength most of the time. Katu2.1 has a great picture as they all do. I haven't noticed any picture difference since they are running half power.It's showing 81% signal now. However since Christmas the audio goes out all the time on 2.1 . It's like real fast in and out. Have to switch to analog . If it lasts for long. Since I can't understand a word and it hurts my ears. Lost was great tonight except for during a couple of ads. Invasion it went out sometime after 10:30PM and got worse and didn't come back until the news was on. No issue like this with any other channel. Sent a note to KATU from the web site. The above message from Katu engineer makes it sound like they are clueless about what is going on and don't monitor the digital to make sure it's working . Very odd wonder if that meets FCC regs? Anyone else having audio issues?

KATU is fine for me now, and I have consistent issues with a handful of the other stations. I'd recommend a different antenna. Even if you get a better signal when KATU goes back to full power, you'll probably want a consistently higher signal strength for your other stations, since you should be able to easily get that from Vancouver.

I have a Winegard HD9065P and tomorrow I think I'll run a new drop from the antenna directly to the HR10-250 and see if that makes any difference.

Sent a note to KATU from the web site. The above message from Katu engineer makes it sound like they are clueless about what is going on and don't monitor the digital to make sure it's working . Very odd wonder if that meets FCC regs? Anyone else having audio issues?
I'm having no audio issues with any local stations at the moment. The only vague thing I can say is that KATU's transport stream is slightly different from other stations. This has exposed a bug in recent versions of a application I use. I haven't tracked down the bug since there's a workaround and it probably doesn't have anything to do with your problem, but it will cause stuttering audio.

Tom I think you missed the point :-) .10.2 for the last few days or so has been broadcasting different programs on 10.2 from Channel 10 analog . You are right that usually 10.2 is a digital mirror broadcast of channel 10 but not lately(I think this started this weekend) Last night it had the nightly news at 10PM on 10.2 . Ok just checked at opb website. It is their new Digital Life style channel.Started on Jan 9th 06 It's called "Create" and has this logo on the lower right. It has many of the same shows as Channel 10 but at different times and also many new shows not on Channel 10.Mostly from "American Public TV" rather then from PBS .
Downside of this new channel.... As far as I can tell No digital broadcasts of the Main nightly shows. Mystery & Masterpiece Theater etc . Very odd I will call OPB tomorrow and see what they say about this odd development.

I've only had my HDTV receiver since Christmas. I'm lucky enough to have a great picture on all the Portland stations. As mentioned before I'm using an inside twin bowtie from rat shack. I do have to aim the antenna carefully. 12.1 is the most picky and has the lowest signal strength most of the time. Katu2.1 has a great picture as they all do. I haven't noticed any picture difference since they are running half power.It's showing 81% signal now. However since Christmas the audio goes out all the time on 2.1 . It's like real fast in and out. Have to switch to analog . If it lasts for long. Since I can't understand a word and it hurts my ears. Lost was great tonight except for during a couple of ads. Invasion it went out sometime after 10:30PM and got worse and didn't come back until the news was on. No issue like this with any other channel. Sent a note to KATU from the web site. The above message from Katu engineer makes it sound like they are clueless about what is going on and don't monitor the digital to make sure it's working . Very odd wonder if that meets FCC regs? Anyone else having audio issues?You've got some other issues going on there. I watched both hours of Lost and all of Invasion on 2-1 and didn't notice any problems. During the first hour and a half of Lost I was popping over to 8-1 during the commercials to check the Blazer score though.


ron

Tom I think you missed the point :-) .10.2 for the last few days or so has been broadcasting different programs on 10.2 from Channel 10 analog . You are right that usually 10.2 is a digital mirror broadcast of channel 10 but not lately(I think this started this weekend) Last night it had the nightly news at 10PM on 10.2 . Ok just checked at opb website. It is their new Digital Life style channel.Started on Jan 9th 06 It's called "Create" and has this logo on the lower right. It has many of the same shows as Channel 10 but at different times and also many new shows not on Channel 10.Mostly from "American Public TV" rather then from PBS .
Downside of this new channel.... As far as I can tell No digital broadcasts of the Main nightly shows. Mystery & Masterpiece Theater etc . Very odd I will call OPB tomorrow and see what they say about this odd development.
Well it seems I did (miss the point)! What the heck are those folks up to?

On another note, KATU came in perfectly for me last night for the first time in a month. Maybe FastEddie's calls finally prodded them into action. Or maybe they just received their thingamajig and got it attached to their doohickey. I am not one to pontificate (much) on the wild and wooly ways of KATU's engineering staff... just happy they might have gotten their act together. And just in time for Lost & Invasion!

just curious what brand of tv do you guys own? Just shopping for a new tv and need some input

Just look around and get one that looks good to you.

What receiver would you recommend for ota that will not drain my pocket book.

Tim

just curious what brand of tv do you guys own? Just shopping for a new tv and need some input
What receiver would you recommend for ota that will not drain my pocket book.
Not trying to chase you out of this area, but those are the type of innocent, newbie questions that incite wars! <g>

For TV's, read about direct view (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=64), rear projectors (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=63), or flat panels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=40). Look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=25) for reception hardware. You'll find all the opinions you could want, and then some. You can research, but in the end you'll still have to decide what's best for yourselves. Nobody agrees on anything.

just curious what brand of tv do you guys own? Just shopping for a new tv and need some inputWhat receiver would you recommend for ota that will not drain my pocket book.

TimGuys, this is the PDX OTA HDTV info and reception thread. The questions you're looking for answers to are very broad (especially TV/display) and you can find all kinds of great info on other forums here at AVS for them. Try these for displays:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=9



and this one for HD receivers:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=25


Edit: ceccacci, if I'd known you were typing that it would have saved me five minutes :).


ron

Nobody agrees on anything.
I agree!

Doesn't that make it so you disagree with that statement? Hmmmmm

If you get the Oregonian the was an article about consumers and HDTVs in the Business section yesterday. Also, somebody wrote in today saying the switch to digital is so the FCC can use the VHF channels for other purposes? Is that true? If so then why id PAX on 4 and why does the start of the thread say PBS is going to switch to 10 when it is all said and done? Just wondering.

Do I agree that nobody agrees, or do I simply agree in general, therefore disagreeing nobody agrees? I love the ambiguity.

Far as the switch to digital goes, the idea is to free up valueable VHF spectrum for other purposes. Some of this spectrum will be reserved for emergency services. Much of it will be sold or leased for some very hefty fees. At least that's what I'd read a while ago. I don't have any answers otherwise. Dunno. Supposedly it all happens in 2009 though - but that date seems to change almost daily. We'll see!

Also, somebody wrote in today saying the switch to digital is so the FCC can use the VHF channels for other purposes? Is that true? If so then why id PAX on 4 and why does the start of the thread say PBS is going to switch to 10 when it is all said and done? Just wondering.
They're freeing up the upper part of the UHF band (which I believe has been done) and the lower end of the VHF band. There are some stations around the country who don't think ATSC over UHF will work for them so they're keeping the upper end of the VHF band available. KPXG-DT is temporarily on VHF channel 4 but will switch to UHF channel 22.

It's still unknown if KGW-DT will move to VHF channel 8. KOAC-DT in Corvallas wants to switch to channel 7 and I guess there's some potential interference there.

Here is an article in the Oregonian about the purchase of KOIN.

KOIN article (http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/113711731658690.xml&coll=7)

Looks like they will be installing a, "GVTV automated production system", not sure if that will help with some of HD viewing issues or not.

I hope Lee is in no danger from the new ownership. That would be a huge loss for this community.

Read page one of this forum. It's dated 12/16/05 . It states Portland channels 8,10 & 12 are going to be keeping their current VHS channels.It seems from the info I've read that Broadcasting on VHS saves money. As you get a stronger signal & area coverage per watt of broadcast power. It is estimated the government will receive 6 Billion dollars from the sell of the vacated TV bandwith after the switch to digital. A web search lists UHF channels 52-69 as the only ones being sold for sure. 70-81 were sold a number of years back. 22-1,2,3 & 4 broadcasting on local 4 are coming in as good or better then the others for me though they are digital and not HDTV. The main issue for me is the careful aiming of the antenna. I am told this is the main difference between ATSC (North America,South Korea only) & the DVB digital system used in Europe and the rest of the World(Japan has it's own system).DVB is much easier to tune in and there for is currently in much wider use . ATSC format was a political choice even though both ABC & NBC spoke out against it and for DVB .So once again like NTSC & Pal the USA ended up with the lesser choice ;-( It would seem. None the less the picture is great just a pain to mess with the antenna all the time.

It's certainly obvious when Lee doesn't shut down 6-2 for games.
Wonder why this game is different than the other ones, or if there has been a change in policy.

Read page one of this forum. It's dated 12/16/05 . It states Portland channels 8,10 & 12 are going to be keeping their current VHS channels.
Er VHF. KGW's application to keep channel 8 was denied. The FCC is still working on that.

I am told this is the main difference between ATSC (US,South Korea only)
And Canada and evenutally Mexico.

& the DVB digital system used in Europe and the rest of the World.
Except Japan who uses ISDB.

DVB is much easier to tune in and there for is currently in much wider use .
At this point Australia is the only country widely using DVB-T for HDTV.

ATSC format was a political choice even though both ABC & NBC spoke out against it and for DVB .
No it was very practical. The main problem was that you can't get 19.2 Mbps with DVB-T in a 6 Mhz channel. This isn't a problem in countries that have 7 and 8 Mhz channels (pretty much everyone else). It also caused more interference with NTSC broadcasts on adjacent channels since it has a less-even use of bandwidth (which is why it's excellent at multipath rejection). Also DVB-T just had not been designed for HDTV so adopting it for that use would have been another standards fiasco, even worse an international standards fiasco. That's one reason why Australia is a couple of years behind us in HDTV.

ABC and NBC brought up their "reservations" about ATSC literally years after it had been approved. Only the Sinclair Broadcast Group submitted a formal petition to the FCC about it. It certainly seemed like they were hoping to delay HDTV out for a few more years, maybe even another decade, so they wouldn't have to invest in HDTV. Sinclair stations are generally less likely to broadcast in HDTV.

So once again like NTSC & Pal the USA ended up with the lesser choice ;-( It would seem. None the less the picture is great just a pain to mess with the antenna all the time.
I haven't had any reception problems I couldn't figure out and I'm using pathetic first and second generation ATSC receivers that barely have any multipath rejection.

Someone at KOIN must have just forgot to shut down 6-2 yesterday for the game. It's down today and what a difference it makes.

Maybe the planned GVTV automated production system will help with that

Do any of the local stations broadcast test patterns? I'm looking for a way to calibrate my TV. Especially white and black level. I'm hoping for some test patterns similar to AVIA or maybe DVE.

I use AVIA and have calibrated my DVD input. But my set has different calibatration settings for each input. I found some test color bars on DISH so that I could calibrate that input (though they dont put up anything for white and black level which is what I really need), but I havent seen anything for my OTA input.

I remember when I was younger, stations ( at least in Chicago), used to broadcast test patterns late at nite. Does PBS ever do this here?

Thanks
Rick

Nobody does it anymore, KOIN used to to a nice color bar that was good for setting black levels, but they haven't done it for years. KPTV 12 used to do a test pattern way back too. I think you need to get the test dvd of some sort or at least rent it. The THX disks usually have a pretty good basic test funtion in them too. OTA/cable is all over anyways so just get it similar to your best setup on your calibrated inputs and be happy.

Maybe the planned GVTV automated production system will help with that

The system that's being talked about at KOIN is the Grass Valley Ignite. http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/ips/ignite/

It's main purpose is to run a news show with as few bodies as possible.

Good Luck to all the KOINers out there. (Your going to need it.)

Nobody does it anymore, KOIN used to to a nice color bar that was good for setting black levels, but they haven't done it for years. KPTV 12 used to do a test pattern way back too. I think you need to get the test dvd of some sort or at least rent it. The THX disks usually have a pretty good basic test funtion in them too. OTA/cable is all over anyways so just get it similar to your best setup on your calibrated inputs and be happy.


Thanks, I do own the AVIA calibration DVD and use that to calibrate my DVD input. But each input is different. I've "eyeballed" the OTA input but a test pattern would be nice. DISH puts up some test bars very late at night on some channels that are off the air. But my DISH input is also seperate from my OTA.

Well, in any event, it would be nice to see someone put some test patterns back on.

Thanks
Rick

Hey, anybody seen this?
http://comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=12867
Seems CBS and WB have inked a joint venture to develop a new station, "The CW". Launches Fall 2006, at which time UPN (owned by CBS) and The WB will go the way of the Dodo. Apparently the idea is to challenge the "big four" - if that's the goal, then improvements will need to be made to their digital broadcast infrastructure - a good thing for us all.

Since KWBP is owned by Tribune Broadcasting, it means we wave goodbye to HD programming on KPDX and hope that KWBP get their problems (transmitter power and low bit rates) solved.

Since KWBP is owned by Tribune Broadcasting, it means we wave goodbye to HD programming on KPDX and hope that KWBP get their problems (transmitter power and low bit rates) solved.

It's been a while since we had a station without network affiliation and I welcome it. When channel 12 was independent they showed a lot more movies and I'm hoping KPDX follows that model as movies in HD would be wonderful. Maybe we could even work in a few local shows with outdoor themes that would also look great in HD. I hope KPDX won't stop all HD programming because of this change. Indeed it could actually mean more HD programming.

While it would be nice, the chances of locally produced HD at this point (especially from a smaller independant station) are probably slim to none I'd think. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. The changes at KOIN too.


ron

Remember that KPDX has never broadcast a single movie in HD and has never broadcast any local HD. The only way indepedents have been able to get HD movies has been through the Paramount One package. I don't know if they're still doing that. KPDX doesn't even have the equipment to rebroadcast HD at this point so with no network feed, I wouldn't count on seeing any HD programming from them after September for a long time.

I would have to agree with scowl, it is much easier and cheaper to broadcast in non HD.

I realize I have gotten more cynical over the years so it may just be me, but I am less than enthusiastic about all these changes to our local OTA stations and the effects it will have on our HD programming.

I realize I have gotten more cynical over the years so it may just be me, but I am less than enthusiastic about all these changes to our local OTA stations and the effects it will have on our HD programming.

I don't think you're alone. I think there is more reason to suspect gloom on the horizon than sunshine - and I'm not just talking about the weather today. :D

It'll be interesting to see if anyone at KGW thinks KOIN has been doing a good thing when they take their subs down during high-profile HD events. I'm thinking Olympics here?

Yes, what Ridge said. When I said interesting I wasn't really meaning to imply "good" necessarily. As far as the Winter Olympics go, I seem to recall comparing the KGW feed to the HDNet feed (pre HDLite from D*) last time and ended up watching the HDNet feed because it was a bit cleaner (that year they did the delayed dedicated HD simulcast on digital NBC/HDNet). IIRC, they were pretty close though so I think they may have only been running 8-1 for the two weeks. It's so long ago now it's all pretty fuzzy though. I think we should start asking now if they would consider it otherwise we're in for caca.....


ron

Ok, think I've decided that I should probably get my antenna reaimed and most likely moved so that it has a clearer sight to the towers. Also will probably want to run another line from the antenna to the wall as it's currently being "split".

Does anyone know of a good dealer/installer in the Portland area that would be able to come out to fix my problem? Or if you could help point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it!


Thanks

IIRC, they were pretty close though so I think they may have only been running 8-1 for the two weeks. It's so long ago now it's all pretty fuzzy though. I think we should start asking now if they would consider it otherwise we're in for caca.....


ron

Yeah, I'm fuzzy on the history, too. But I sort of recall watching those continual HD loops of coverage on 8-2. And now there is WeatherPlus to deal with ... :(

Hopefully, with more real-time coverage (am I halucinating here?) they will put it on 8-1 and turn the others off. Hello - KGW?? Anyone out there?

It'll be interesting to see if anyone at KGW thinks KOIN has been doing a good thing when they take their subs down during high-profile HD events. I'm thinking Olympics here?

I'm not sure whether this is best asked in the OTA or Cable thread, but since many of you populate both, here goes. I'm relatively ignorant about HD bandwidth, but presumably, if KGW takes down their subs during the olympics, the quality of the main feed would be higher. However, what about the cable feed? Does the quality of KGW's OTA feed affect the quality of their cable feed?

Sorry if this is just a stupid and obvious question.

I am happy that, at least, Portland is one of the favored 16. That part helps soften the blow. :)


crossbeaux, as far as I know, Comcast gets the exact same signal that goes out over the air, so if the bitrate is down for the broadcast channel it will be for Comcast too.

A few days after I sent KGW an e-mail I noticed they took 8-3 back down. Hopefully our e-mails helped prompt that decision.
I'd like to see WeatherPlus taken down for the Olympics, as well as all other sporting events. :D

I sent Eric an email earlier today asking about the possibility of it. I mentioned how KOIN/Lee have been accomodating us in that respect, so maybe they'll feel a little guilty for not doing it ;). If I hear anything back I'll post it up.


ron

I am happy that, at least, Portland is one of the favored 16. That part helps soften the blow. :)


crossbeaux, as far as I know, Comcast gets the exact same signal that goes out over the air, so if the bitrate is down for the broadcast channel it will be for Comcast too.

A few days after I sent KGW an e-mail I noticed they took 8-3 back down. Hopefully our e-mails helped prompt that decision.
I'd like to see WeatherPlus taken down for the Olympics, as well as all other sporting events. :D


Comcast gets the HD content from KGW over a fiber line directly from the Master Control switcher. Doesn't matter what KGW does OTA Comcast narrows the bandwidth all on their own.

KGW had 8.3 up for a few days to feed a translater that had lost its prime feed.

Sounds like KGW engineering has been busy lately. Eric's reply regarding bandwidth allocation:


"Currently, we are only sending out two channels 8.1 and 8.2. We are already
planning on reallocating some of the bits from Weather Plus to the main HDTV
channel. Weather Plus is here to stay. We no longer waste any bits on a SD
simulcast.

We have installed a lot of new equipment over the past couple of weeks. We
now have an all SD digital plant in our master control. This means no more
up conversion from analog and no more analog NTSC recording, playback, etc.
The quality has improved greatly. It's something I have been asking for
five years.

We are also converting over to our new HD switching system. We will have
the capability of 5.1 surround sound again by the end of next week. We are
eliminating the digital to analog and analog to digital audio conversions.

Later,

P. Eric Dausman
Director of Technology, Broadcast Media
KGW Northwest NewsChannel 8, a Belo Station"


ron

Whatever Comcast and KGW are doing, the Notre Dame games looked identical on Comcast and OTA -- not very good.

We will have the capability of 5.1 surround sound again by the end of next week. We are eliminating the digital to analog and analog to digital audio conversions.
This is great news!

That is good news, thank you Ron.

Thanks to Eric and KGW too.

Wonderful news!! Thanks Ron, Eric, KGW, Belo - am I forgetting anyone? The horizon just got a bit rosier!

Come on scowl, can't you give KGW some props for the stuff described in the P. Eric Dausman email posted by ron? I think they are trying to improve the quality and content for most of the people out there with HD. Not everyone has the detail oriented and discerning eye that you have.

I have pretty discerning eyes too :). Honestly though, because I have all subchannels deleted from my guides I was not aware they had shut down the SD simulcast (which I assume was pretty recent?). Outside of The West Wing, Surface and ER which are all mostly slower, non-action shows, the only other stuff I watch on KGW are the Blazer games, local news and the Today show. Since they don't have much in the way of sports I've seen lately their previously split-three-ways signal was not a big problem for me personally.

For me the upconverted Blazer games were the worst, definitely showing ill effects of not only the multicasting, but I'd assume the SD Analog source Eric mentioned as well. I will be interested to see how much better they fare with a little more bandwidth and the SD Digital source to upconvert. They might be pretty decent now :). I watched the upconverted 8-1 news last night and again this morning paying attention to PQ. Whereas they were easily the worst PQ of the big four in local news previously, they seem to now be pretty much on par with the others so I think those changes have definitely improved the local upconverted stuff in particular :).

It remains to be seen how much of a problem the continued existence of weather plus, (which looks to have been the main beneficiary of the shutting down of the SD simulcast) will be during HD sports on 8-1. It would be interesting to know what their "regular" allocation between WP and 8-1 is now. Since I would think WP is really just a "check it quick" thing that people don't really care about PQ on, I would hope they would keep it down pretty low. At least they plan on borrowing *some* of it's bits for 8-1 during the Olympics.


ron

Come on scowl, can't you give KGW some props for the stuff described in the P. Eric Dausman email posted by ron? I think they are trying to improve the quality and content for most of the people out there with HD. Not everyone has the detail oriented and discerning eye that you have.
Well, my opinion is that if stations would just commit their bandwidth to HD instead of weather channels and feeding translators, they'd all look great. In fact 19.2 Mbps is just barely enough for 1080i to begin with.

I'm very glad that they realize that their HD quality is lacking and I understand they're in a bind with this stupid Weather Plus channel, but I can't give them props until I see something that really shows how good their HD is, like the Olympics.

SJL Broadcast Group has renamed themselves to Montecito, and they're wreaking havoc with their new purchases (KOIN and KHON in Hawaii).

See the rather depressing coverage at http://www.oregonmediainsiders.com/ (http://www.oregonmediainsiders.com/taxonomy/term/1).

"The new owners recently changed the name of their company from SJL to Montecito. It is a virtual company with no office building that specializes in buying and selling TV stations."


Yeah, I'd say that is pretty depressing alright. Lee, if you happen to read this, my best wishes go out to you and everybody else at KOIN. I really hope things don't work out too badly. Good luck.


ron

Well, it took a call to KGW to get the HD feed of the hockey game turned on.

It still seems that it's a crapshoot if we get HD without a prompt from us when it isn't Sunday football or evening primetime programming.
It's not just KGW either, that seems to be a general problem with most of the locals.

Glad to see that someone else is calling re: NBC and NHL in HD. I called 2 weeks ago and they never switched it over. I called again today and it looks like they finally made the switch.

Let's all stay on top of these guys.

--Mark

Glad to see that someone else is calling re: NBC and NHL in HD. I called 2 weeks ago and they never switched it over. I called again today and it looks like they finally made the switch.

Let's all stay on top of these guys.

--Mark

Thanks, earltp and markemery! I didn't even look to see if it was supposed to be HD herre. IIRC, the last 2 weeks' games we got here in Portland were not the HD games, so it would have made no difference.

It's really too bad that KPDX couldn't become the "Sub-Channel" channel and broadcast all the .2 and .3 crap from all around town. It wouldn't take a lot of employees to run a shop like that. Maybe it could be run from one persons livingroom like Montecito.:D

I've seen some occasional DirecTV commentary in this thread. I'd like to be able do discuss a few local DirecTV issues and I think the local Comcast thread isn't the place, so I think this one must be it by default. :)

I saw a van with lots of DirecTV logos in Tualatin the other day. On the doors it said "authorized contractor for DirecTV". Had Washingon plates.

But the reason I bring this up is I understand that DirecTV HD locals will be coming to Portland soon. So I'd like to hear from people who get them. E.g., are you satisfied with quality, do you have audio problems, etc. People have complained about both of those in other local HD markets.

At any rate, it's mostly academic curiosity on my part. If and when KOIN is on Comcast and TiVo actually releases their standalone HD box, I think I'll rely on Comcast rather than DirecTV for my HD needs. But it doesn't hurt to keep up with the marketplace.

I talked to a D*** tech the other day and he said they will have Local HD soon (by end of the year), the only catch is you will need one of the new 5 LNB dishes to receive it. He stated they are launching two new satellites and with the new mpeg-4 coming a 5 LNB will be needed. It's always something to get more money from us.

Don't get your hopes up....

My family just got the MPEG4 dish and the H20 box for local HD down in the SF Bay Area and it has not been that great experience thus far. Most of it was due to the inexperienced installers but there are also some software issues that havent been worked out. So far the channel quality has not been very great and there is a known audio sync issue with some of the channels leaving the timing ~1 second off.... almost unwatchable even in sporting events.

Hopefully by the time we get it up here in Portland, the software will be fixed.

I've seen some occasional DirecTV commentary in this thread. I'd like to be able do discuss a few local DirecTV issues and I think the local Comcast thread isn't the place, so I think this one must be it by default. :)

I saw a van with lots of DirecTV logos in Tualatin the other day. On the doors it said "authorized contractor for DirecTV". Had Washingon plates.

But the reason I bring this up is I understand that DirecTV HD locals will be coming to Portland soon. So I'd like to hear from people who get them. E.g., are you satisfied with quality, do you have audio problems, etc. People have complained about both of those in other local HD markets.

At any rate, it's mostly academic curiosity on my part. If and when KOIN is on Comcast and TiVo actually releases their standalone HD box, I think I'll rely on Comcast rather than DirecTV for my HD needs. But it doesn't hurt to keep up with the marketplace.

You can have local HD now if you put up an off-air antenna. Tap into the antenna input on your HD box or TV itself, have them added to your guide, etc... done.

Why wait for DIRECTV or DISH network for that matter to bring you local channels that will be compressed to hell guaranteed when you can easily get them now. When you can have the locals this way the whole picture quality comparison argument becomes moot. Why make yourself pay to have them delivered by satellite when you can get them for free off-air. I understand many people on the outskirts aren't able to bring in the local signals this way and would need a satellite solution, however you'd be surprised how well the digital signal comes in. In some places that had a very hard time with getting analog, or nothing at all, the digital signal is coming right through.

I'm in St Helens receiving all local HD channels off-air. 2.1 - 95%, 6.1 - 98%, 8.1 - 100% 10.1 - 85%, 12.1 - 95%, 32 - 80%, 49 - 80%.

BTW, the DIRECTV vans you see are IRONWOOD COMMUNICATIONS Contractors for DIRECTV. http://www.ironwoodcommunications.com/ They operate out of Vancouver, hence the Washington plates.

Don't get your hopes up....

My family just got the MPEG4 dish and the H20 box for local HD down in the SF Bay Area and it has not been that great experience thus far. Most of it was due to the inexperienced installers but there are also some software issues that havent been worked out. So far the channel quality has not been very great and there is a known audio sync issue with some of the channels leaving the timing ~1 second off.... almost unwatchable even in sporting events.

Hopefully by the time we get it up here in Portland, the software will be fixed.


Most of the time the audio sync issue is not a provider problem. I have my off-air antenna tapped into both the tv itself and the satellite box. When there are audio sync problems, like this morning on Good Morning America. It was coming from KATU that way. I verified it wasn't anything in the satellite box by switching to the tv itself. The analog feed is perfectly fine. It has also been talked about in great detail at Broadcast Engineering. http://www.broadcastengineering.com/ It is just the nature of digital television at the moment.

You can subscribe free to Broadcast Engineering's monthly magazine. Their website is well stacked with information as well.

I talked to a D*** tech the other day and he said they will have Local HD soon (by end of the year), the only catch is you will need one of the new 5 LNB dishes to receive it. He stated they are launching two new satellites and with the new mpeg-4 coming a 5 LNB will be needed. It's always something to get more money from us.


Even if Portland lit up today with mpeg4, I wouldn't go there. No DVR to record any of the mpeg4 channels. OTA with the HD10-250 is just fine with me (besides the bounciness of KPTV).

Why wait for DIRECTV or DISH network for that matter to bring you local channels that will be compressed to hell guaranteed when you can easily get them now. When you can have the locals this way the whole picture quality comparison argument becomes moot. Why make yourself pay to have them delivered by satellite when you can get them for free off-air. I understand many people on the outskirts aren't able to bring in the local signals this way and would need a satellite solution, however you'd be surprised how well the digital signal comes in.It's not just people on the outskirts, I'm afraid. Portland is a city of hills, and try to get a good signal when you live in the shadow of one of them. It's more challenging than you might think for quite a few of us.

It's not just people on the outskirts, I'm afraid. Portland is a city of hills, and try to get a good signal when you live in the shadow of one of them. It's more challenging than you might think for quite a few of us.

Perhaps, but it's still worth a try. I'm sure there's areas worse than others, but for the majority it has been successful. I was bedded way down in a houseboat in scappoose with the big hill in the way. I tried using the UHF antenna for the remote control on a DISH system to see what I could get ( a good measurement to go by) Low and behold I got 2, 6, 8, with 70-80% signal strength. 12 and 49 kept bouncing in and out. That guy obviously needed a bigger antenna, but not much of one. A good multi-directional probably would have worked fine. I haven't been back to see the final result. I know someone in forest grove is using a squareshooter and is getting excellent results. Another guy I know is sitting down in Oregon City getting 60-70% results so it just depends how the signal bounces your way and what antenna you use. And a little luck.

ETA on the Portland locals is going to be sometime March or April-ish. The 5-LNB dish is set to start being installed sometime Mid-February or possibly delayed until March for supply reasons. The Mpeg-4 HD-DVR (HR20-250) is slated for a May release, but I've been told privately not to expect it earlier than July.

My honest opinion is to only get the 5-LNB Mpeg-4 setup if you need the HD-locals and cannot pick them up OTA. National HD channels will not be broadcast onto the new satellites until Mid/Late 2007. If you're currently getting the HD OTA locals, you will not be missing anything until national channels start rolling out.

One guy here was actually getting good reception from the reflections off of a hill. Radio waves just want to be received. :)

The sync issue is a problem with the D* dish. Its not just my TV. The San Francisco - DBS thread is filled with it. Direct TV knows about it but wont do anything until it gets enough complaints logged.

National HD channels will not be broadcast onto the new satellites until Mid/Late 2007. If you're currently getting the HD OTA locals, you will not be missing anything until national channels start rolling out.Maybe by then we'll have Verizon FIOS anyway...


ron

ETA on the Portland locals is going to be sometime March or April-ish. The 5-LNB dish is set to start being installed sometime Mid-February or possibly delayed until March for supply reasons. The Mpeg-4 HD-DVR (HR20-250) is slated for a May release, but I've been told privately not to expect it earlier than July.

My honest opinion is to only get the 5-LNB Mpeg-4 setup if you need the HD-locals and cannot pick them up OTA. National HD channels will not be broadcast onto the new satellites until Mid/Late 2007. If you're currently getting the HD OTA locals, you will not be missing anything until national channels start rolling out.


Now if I could get ESPN HD OTA i'd cancel the comcast HD tier completely. But considering how much they charge cable companies to carry it, i seriously doubt it will ever be free ota.

Perhaps, but it's still worth a try. I'm sure there's areas worse than others, but for the majority it has been successful. I was bedded way down in a houseboat in scappoose with the big hill in the way. I tried using the UHF antenna for the remote control on a DISH system to see what I could get ( a good measurement to go by) Low and behold I got 2, 6, 8, with 70-80% signal strength. 12 and 49 kept bouncing in and out. That guy obviously needed a bigger antenna, but not much of one. A good multi-directional probably would have worked fine. I haven't been back to see the final result. I know someone in forest grove is using a squareshooter and is getting excellent results. Another guy I know is sitting down in Oregon City getting 60-70% results so it just depends how the signal bounces your way and what antenna you use. And a little luck.Worth a try? Absolutely. And when it works, the quality is indeed better than either sat or cable. But the technology is still lacking. I wouldn't think that a houseboat on the river or Forest Grove would actually be problem reception areas (although maybe parts of OC). The biggest problem with ATSC reception in my view is not signal strength losses due to distance, but multipath rejection. If you have hills, buildings, trees, or whatever around you bouncing that signal around, you're in trouble.

I live in Tigard and tried at least 4 antennas and a combination of boosters and attenuators, finally getting to the point where I could get most of the stations most of the time. Until the wind blew, or the leaves grew on the trees, or a truck went by, etc. After 2 years of frustration, I mostly just watch HD over Comcast now. The fifth generation receivers are supposed to be a lot better from everything I've read, but there aren't very many of them out there yet.

A lot of people can easily get pristine OTA broadcasts just as you say. I'm just saying there's also a lot of us who have tried and can't, and have little choice but to depend on a satellite or cable solution if we want reliable HD. At least until the equipment gets a bit better.

Well, it took a call to KGW to get the HD feed of the hockey game turned on.

It still seems that it's a crapshoot if we get HD without a prompt from us when it isn't Sunday football or evening primetime programming.
It's not just KGW either, that seems to be a general problem with most of the locals.

Did we miss getting the Houston/Miami NBA game yesterday from KATU in HD? I recall surfing the channels for HD content and seeing the game but it was in SD, so I didn't stay long. I believe that game was a national HD feed, according to HD Sports Guide. Another switch that failed to be thrown? Or did I just happen to tune in during a glitch?

One guy here was actually getting good reception from the reflections off of a hill. Radio waves just want to be received. :)

I actually live in a waiver area for OTA analog 55 miles west of PDX (successfully got my satellite waivers from KGW and Katu -- zero reception), but with Digital I can receive all 5 networks including subchannels, PBS Digital, and its sub, DT49, and several other streams none of us watch of religious/shopping channels -- all come in with excellent signal strength and nearly zero dropouts.

Don't let your analog experiences drive your Digital expectations until you try it. I waited an extra year to try because I assumed I'd have no reception.

Did we miss getting the Houston/Miami NBA game yesterday from KATU in HD? I recall surfing the channels for HD content and seeing the game but it was in SD, so I didn't stay long. I believe that game was a national HD feed, according to HD Sports Guide. Another switch that failed to be thrown? Or did I just happen to tune in during a glitch?


Should have been HD from the guide info that I saw. Of course Titantv.com said that the Buick Open was also HD (which I knew to be false). Really it's hit or miss with KATU/KGW/KOIN lately, especially if it's not really a national game (although Houston/Miami was).

The Blazer game tonight sets some schedule changes. I asked about Surface tonight and here is KGW's reply (not sure why they included the info about other shows):

"Due to Trailblazer Basketball, Surface will be seen Thursday Feb. 2 at 7:00 PM. Las Vegas will be seen Tuesday Jan. 31 at 9:00 PM, Biggest Loser will be seen Friday Feb. 3 at 7:00 PM, and E Ring will be seen Sunday Feb. 5 at 2:00 AM."

I asked if it would also air on KGW-DT in HD but got no commitment about that, as you can see.

I actually called KATU about throwing the switch on the SD Miami/Houston game and the annoyed sounding guy who answered the news line said he'd tell them. Doubt that ever happened since it stayed SD for as long as I stayed with it :rolleyes:. Their audio was horribly out of sync too. Since all those delayed KGW/NBC shows are presumably being taped for rebroadcast, no HD for them either...


ron

I just figured that all of the HD Camera's were getting set up in Detroit for next Sunday, which makes a little sense, til' you think about how much money HDTV is bringing into the entire industry and how stupid it would be for any network to not have enough HD Cameras to cover the games. I was upset that the Sunday NBA games weren't in HD because at the commercial for the upcoming game it said right on the screen ABC HD.

According to NEP Broadcasting's website http://guardian.nepinc.com/ they have an exclusive agreement with ABC to broadcast their games. They have also partnered with National Mobile Television http://www.nmtv.com/ which I saw one of their trucks a week earlier in the background of the ESPN camera shot at Staples Center showing Kobe Bryant arriving before the game. I don't know if they are the same company (?) but their sites show a lot of trucks and doesn't seem that a shortage of HD trucks would be an excuse to not broadcast in HD. However Broadcast Engineering had an article out on Friday http://broadcastengineering.com/newsletters/sports/20060127/#football that ABC was going to be using 36 Cameras and 29 vehicles to broadcast the Superbowl. Back to the shortage belief again.

I just remembered, this morning Good Morning America was not broadcast in HD. They usually have two vertical red bars on the sides of the screen saying Good Morning America with the current timestamp in the very right corner. When I stretch my picture I loose the bars and the time. This morning the time was located on the left side of the ABC logo in the corner (regular 4:3 broadcast). Maybe they really don't have enough equipment to broadcast everything this week in HD. That is unless KATU is allowed to modify ABC's screen. (?)

The Blazer game tonight sets some schedule changes. I asked about Surface tonight and here is KGW's reply (not sure why they included the info about other shows):

"Due to Trailblazer Basketball, Surface will be seen Thursday Feb. 2 at 7:00 PM. Las Vegas will be seen Tuesday Jan. 31 at 9:00 PM, Biggest Loser will be seen Friday Feb. 3 at 7:00 PM, and E Ring will be seen Sunday Feb. 5 at 2:00 AM."

I asked if it would also air on KGW-DT in HD but got no commitment about that, as you can see.
The Las Vegas tonight is a rerun, I'm pretty sure both Surface and Las Vegas were listed as new episodes for last night.
Hopefully since we're at the last couple of episodes of Surface, these schedule changes don't screw it up. It's bad enough having to trade HD for glorious Blazervision as it is.

I have the NY and LA feeds for NBC.

The Monday, 1/31 episode of Las Vegas was a rerun. The comic book convention one.

Mike

Thanks Mike, that's the same LV as was shown tonight, so my mistake, it was a rerun and not a new episode.

Earl

Did anyone else notice static in the audio for the Survivor season premier on KOIN-DT tonight? It was poor off and on throughout the broadcast as shown through my HD Tivo.

I thought the same thing, but I think it was actually a sound effect/music thing going on - like a rain stick perhaps? It certainly had a certain rhythm to it's appearance and it wasn't consistent throughout the show.

Now if they would just get around to producing (or at least upconverting) the show in HD. These locations are just too beautiful - although I suppose we should be grateful to not see the contestants in HD at ~day 20 on...


Did anyone else notice static in the audio for the Survivor season premier on KOIN-DT tonight? It was poor off and on throughout the broadcast as shown through my HD Tivo.

Maybe it was the bugs of the jungle instead of the bugs of HD!

I saw the previous threads about OPB changing their 10.2 schedule in early Jan.

Has anyone talked to the KOPB folks about the decision to change the 10.2 schedule so that it no longer follows the analog channel? This has really messed up my recording capabilities as I no longer get accurate guide data for 10.2. Even TitanTV doesn't show guide data for it.

What were those OPB folks thinking? They seem to think nobody is really watching their digital channels yet... :mad:

Did anyone else notice static in the audio for the Survivor season premier on KOIN-DT tonight? It was poor off and on throughout the broadcast as shown through my HD Tivo.It was not the show. It is the same old thing 6-1 has been plagued with since they hooked up their DD 5.1 gear. The 5.1 shows are great now, but the non-5.1 shows and their local feed is periodically haunted by the "shaker" sounds. Actually, it does sound a little like a rattle snake so it fits in w/survivor pretty well :rolleyes:. Not so good on everything else :(. It seems to come and go and varies in intensity. It would be VERY nice if they would fix it...


ron

Has anyone talked to the KOPB folks about the decision to change the 10.2 schedule so that it no longer follows the analog channel?

On Friday night at midnight the 10.1 channel was following analog showing Charlie Rose, then at 1 AM it was following analog repeating Newshour.

Maybe this is permanent? If so, I like it. Much as the stuff on the old 10.1 was a nice HD demo, I'd much rather see the real programming in HD.

But, to be pedantic, I don't really know if 10.1 was following analog. I was actually watching Comcast 90-60 (which has shown 10.1 in the past).

Maybe this is permanent? If so, I like it. Much as the stuff on the old 10.1 was a nice HD demo, I'd much rather see the real programming in HD.

Analog 10 is showing Motorweek, digital is showing something about potatoes and the pests that eat them. Phooey.

I'd much rather have PBS-HD on 10.1 than a simulcast of the analog channel since very little of that(analog) programming is in HD.
I just hope they don't add a third sub-channel to carry the analog simulcast now that they are using 10.2 for PBS Create.

(edit) It used to be the other way with an upconverted analog 10 on 10.1 and an SD version on 10.2. It was a real bonus when they added PBS-HD to 10.1. Our HD programming increased dramatically with that change.

This has really messed up my recording capabilities as I no longer get accurate guide data for 10.2. Even TitanTV doesn't show guide data for it.

FWIW, you can get programming info for PBS Create on the OPB website...
http://www.opb.org/television/week.php?chan=create&y=2006&m=2&d=4#bottom

also the guide is sent to boxes that can decode PSIP.

OPB continued:
I spoke with OPB programing and sent an email . Portland (like much of the country) studies show them the majority of people have cable. It's like over 85% on average in USA & Portland. I love the HD channel (10.1) great picture. Their reasoning is that many of the prime time shows aren't yet available in HD. Also was told most people can't afford HD TV . So see no real reason to offer the main shows in Digital since they are available on Comcast ;-( . They will of course be adding it when they have to shut down the analog channel. The Create channel on 10.2 isn't HD just digital . So it's a loss for HD not a gain. It could be worse. I did a check of PBS flag ship stations in NYork & Boston. Boston WGBH PBS is rich enough to own 2 stations channels 2 & 44 They offer 6 channels of programing since digital . They have World, Family & Kids & Kids channels in addition to the Create & HD channels we get. It seems you are stuck with cable if you want any of them besides the HD channel. NewYork WNET has 5 channels (missing the Family & Kids but has the Kids channel) but has no mention of over the air digital on their website. Makes seem like they are all cable only. However Titan guide shows HD channel on 13.1 .
WNJN PBSfrom New Jersey but serving NY City has 5 over the air digital channels.Not sure what sort of picture you get with 5 sub channels ! ?
I would like to see a digital chanel for the main prime time shows & in HD when possible. Call or email them if you agree (otherwise keep quiet ;-)

New to this HDTV OTA thing. I am going the D* route on Wednesday and will need an OTA to receive the locals. Can anyone recommend equipment and anything else that I may need? Location is Fairview down around Blue Lake. Thanks.

New to this HDTV OTA thing. I am going the D* route on Wednesday and will need an OTA to receive the locals. Can anyone recommend equipment and anything else that I may need? Location is Fairview down around Blue Lake. Thanks.

I'm also in fairview, across 84 near halsey. I had major multi-path problems due to PDX flights until I put up a very directional antenna. YMMV.

For some reason being tuned into KATU in 720p made horizontal flicker/flash lines show up on the screen. I ended up watching the Superbowl in 1080i. When I switched to ESPN HD in 720p it was fine. Does ABC no longer broadcast in 720p perhaps?

For some reason being tuned into KATU in 720p made horizontal flicker/flash lines show up on the screen. I ended up watching the Superbowl in 1080i. When I switched to ESPN HD in 720p it was fine. Does ABC no longer broadcast in 720p perhaps?


Picture seemed fine where I was at...but whomever did the soundcheck for the pre-game and the Stones is probably fired as we speak. Way too much volume on the instruments and not enough on the vocals.

whomever did the soundcheck for the pre-game and the Stones is probably fired as we speak. Way too much volume on the instruments and not enough on the vocals.

I agree. I've got Grey's Anatomy in 720p now with no problems so something was wrong with the Superbowl feed.

I watche dthe Super Bowl at a friends house and he had HD via Comcast and every thing seemed fine, no video or audio problems.

Ya, everything was fine here too as long as I was in 1080i mode. I think most everyone has their system set to 1080i since it's the default setting on most systems. Unless you are like me and like to match the format to what the network is sending out. It's not a big deal I was just curious if any 720p people knew of anything.

I'm beggining to think that my HD Tivo doesn't like football. I thought maybe I was getting reception issues but it doesn't sound like anyone else did. I'm using a silver sensor antanne with great signal strength but my Tivo kept getting corupted video signals. Anyone have problem viewing the game today OTA ?

Picture seemed fine where I was at...but whomever did the soundcheck for the pre-game and the Stones is probably fired as we speak. Way too much volume on the instruments and not enough on the vocals.
It wasn't just too little volume on the vocals, that wasn't actually that bad (Mick sounded like crap anyhow), but every single instrument wasn't properly positioned or balanced - it all sounded like crap. maybe it sounded ok in the stadium but on the tv feed the sound crew sounded completely amateur.

Since this isn't the Comcast thread, I figure that FIOS info can go here ...

I saw some Verizon trucks in Tualatin today. I asked a craft person about FIOS. He said not to expect it in Tualatin this year. Maybe next year. After Verizon is done with Beaverton, Tigard, and Bull Mountain the next area they will do is Gresham.

I don't think a years delay will matter much since at the moment FIOS is just phones and Internet in Oregon. No cable TV yet.

Yeah, don't worry about FIOS tv in Oregon for a good while. The net however will be hooked up in my house as soon as it's available.

Just to be nitpicky, fiber optic TV is abbreviated FiOS TV not FIOS TV

Here is an item of interest to all...

DTV transition date of 17 February 2009 signed into law

Scott M. Fulton, III

8 Feb 2006 23:18
Washington (DC) - With the signing into law of the budget reconciliation bill today, the 17 February 2009 "hard date" for the transition of US commercial analog television broadcasting, is now fixed in stone. Unless Congress would like to start the whole debate over again (it has before), the end of VHF and most of UHF is at hand.

Getting off one final shot, National Association of Broadcasters president and CEO David K. Rehr applauded the bill's signing, saying, "We have crossed an important threshold." Praising Congress for adopting several pro-consumer measures in the final legislation, Rehr fired off, "We're encouraged that the bill thwarted cable industry attempts to degrade the quality of HDTV pictures to consumers." However, the final legislation in HR 4241 made no mention of whether to extend the "must-carry" requirement that cable operators must carry broadcast signals over their services, in the wake of enhancements to digital signals that enable up to four "sub-channels" per channel. Separate legislation to tackle this issue may be forthcoming.

We may have to deal with NBC Weather Plus for the Olympics, but DD5.1 from KGW is nice to hear. :)

We may have to deal with NBC Weather Plus for the Olympics, but DD5.1 from KGW is nice to hear. :)
Speaking of KGW's DD 5.1; did it sound weird to anyone else?

What I was hearing was the announcer dialog not localizing to the center, sometimes not even to the front! I couldn't decide if the announcer was to the right, to the left, or at the back of the room! And he sounded like he was in a box!??

Maybe it's just my setup, but I don't think so. I made sure that the receiver was decoding 5.1 (this works fine for DVD DTS and DD 5.1 movies and ABC's and HBO's 5.1 sound). I'm listening through my Comcast DVR and my Sony receiver's blue "I'm playing 5.1 DD sound" light is on. And I've run AVIA's speaker phase testing with good localization results.

On the positive side, Bob Costas is the bomb! The corny dialog of past Olympics was blessedly absent.

Though what is UP with the 70's disco music, huh? "YMCA"? "Burn, Baby, Burn"? Geez, I've heard better disc jockeys at hillbilly shotgun weddings. :p And was it just coincidence that Aretha was singing "Freedom" when the USA entered the stadium? Ya have to wonder.

My wife just called out to give props for the cool mountain-shaped skirts. HD (even KGW's HD) was good enough to show that the skirts had toy skiers attached!

Now if we can just see some actual competition (curling, anyone?)

Yeah the announcers sounded like they were talking through a roll of paper towels. Wasn't this KGW's first 5.1 broadcast ever?

The opening ceremonies looked stunning, but it looks like we're in for the same old blocky mess we got during the Summer Olympics. Perhaps we can all beg and beg KGW to turn off the stupid subchannel. It'll be nice to compare the PQ of UHD.

I think the late 70's to early 80's pop music was chosen because it's now so old that no one will find it offensive. BTW, if you check your soundrack of Saturday Night Fever, you'll see that song by the Tramps is called "Disco Inferno". :)

Looks like the audio problem wasn't a kgw thing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7111071#post7111071

KGW is giving the main channel 14.8 Mbps (including audio) at the moment. Weather+ is getting a healthy 3.9 Mbps.

UHD looks flawless. I can't imagine why.

Yeah the announcers sounded like they were talking through a roll of paper towels. Wasn't this KGW's first 5.1 broadcast ever?


I believe so, and as such I was willing to give them a break while they figure things out. It looks like we need a better source before we know just how good KGW DD5.1 is going to sound.

UHD looks flawless.I'll assume you are watching this off E* or Comcast then because it doesn't look so sweet via D*. I thought the PQ for the last hour or so that I saw of the opening ceremonies was decent. Not great but not too bad. It would be very nice if KGW would cut that WP feed down a bit for the actual sporting events as I'm sure it would make an improvement. The audio is terrible. My guess is that it's a combination of the NBC feed and the local set up. It's bad enough to make me not want to watch much if it doesn't get straightened out.


ron

I started watching via Comcast this afternoon but couldn't get 5.1, just PL - even when I swapped tuners. So I changed to OTA and 5.1 does light up my receiver. Seems there is no control over the commentator's voice. It appears in all speakers and sometimes floats between front and back. I noticed that floating last night during the Nightly News show, too. Since that is also coming from Turin, perhaps it is in the control room mixing from Italy that introduces this jumble of sound. I don't think it makes it unwatchable, it's just not a clean broadcast that puts you in the middle of the action. Hopefully they are aware of it and can work it out.

Edit: OK, it's in the comercials, too, so forget Italy as the source. :confused:

I'll assume you are watching this off E* or Comcast then because it doesn't look so sweet via D*.
Yes, Comcast. I had my eyeballs pressed to the screen during the hockey games today and didn't see any blocking at all. I was really impressed.

Edit: OK, it's in the comercials, too, so forget Italy as the source. Yep, I'd have to say KGW's DD encoder is either not working properly or is not set up correctly. I'm one of those people that strange audio really bothers and having dialog coming from all angles bugs the heck out of me. Especially when it phases around randomly from side to side :(. And like KATU, since they are leaving it set to 5.1 continuously it's like that for all their programming. At least with 2-1 I can switch to PCM audio which helps a little, but that doesn't seem to make any difference on 8-1. I'll be sending an email today to give my feedback ;).

As far as the Olympic PQ goes, after watching the coverage for a few days now I'd have to say their upconverted SD stuff doesn't look very good. Lots of artifacting. The real HD is pretty decent. On the higher motion stuff it does look like it's just holding together, right on the edge of breaking up and falling apart though. The NBC feed or the relatively low bit rate on 8-1? I bet it would look much better with a couple more mb pulled from weather +. I'll be sure to give my feedback about that too :).


ron

The sound has been terrible. It's not just a matter of surround speakers but just plain fidelity. Why does so much of it sound like a shortwave broadcast?

The SD upconversion isn't too bad considering the mess of conversions this video is going through (576 50i -> 1080 50i -> 1080 60i). Some stuff looks like it's been oddly enhanced. The outdoor interview with snowboarder Shaun Carter after he won the gold looked really bizarre. Whenever he turned his head his hair became a bright blur but turned black when his head stopped moving.