anyone able to pick up telemundo in Portland metro area?

Has anybody else noticed that about 3 seconds before commercial, KOIN has been blasting the volume up? It's caused my speakers to shut down (protection against blowing) a couple times, and makes the dog yelp in pain.

I have been trying to think of a way to avoid it, like setting a timer to catch most of the commercial times, so I can mute it before it blasts my eardrums and my speakers. I have stopped using headphones when I watch KOIN, because of this. Is this how stations say they haven't turned up the volume during commercials, by blasting it right before the commercial? I hate it. :mad:

anyone able to pick up telemundo in Portland metro area?

Not finding anything ATSC on the following channels of interest:
RF Ch. 24 (currently listed on KKEI wiki page for digital transmission)
RF Ch. 27 (KOPB old Ch. for digital transmission)
RF Ch. 32 (KRCW old Ch. for analog transmission)
RF Ch. 34 (previously listed on KKEI wiki page for digital transmission)
RF Ch. 38 (KKEI old Ch. for analog transmission)
RF Ch. 41 (currently listed on KORK wiki page for digital transmission)
RF Ch. 44 (currently listed on KOXO wiki page for digital transmission)
RF Ch. 46 (KGW old Ch. for digital transmission)
RF Ch. 48 (KPDX old Ch. for digital transmission)
RF Ch. 49 (KPDX old Ch. for analog transmission, KWVT digital transmission)
RF Ch. 50 (KGW old Ch. for digital transmission)
RF Ch. 51 (KOXO Ch. for analog transmission)

I only get Ch. 5 and 47 on analog.
I hooked up one of my Zenith DTT-900 and used the manual tune in the menu to flip through RF Ch. 14-51
I heard Ch. 6 being a possible candidate, but I'll leave the VHF-Low for someone who has a proper setup to test there. Someone who could pick up KPXG-DT when it was on RF CH. 4

WatchTV ran both KOXO and KKEI as far I know.
No idea what they are waiting for ever since they shut off the analog transmissions.

Northwest Television moves:

DTV 24 KPWC move to Newberg/Forest Grove, no estimate timeline.
DTV 27 KSLM frequency change from DTV 16 expected in March.
DTV 49 KWVT frequency/location move expected late April or May.

ETA:
KKEI has an application for DTV 24, at 0.037kW. KPWC has construction permit for DTV 24 at 4 kW.

:)"Northwest Television moves:

DTV 24 KPWC move to Newberg/Forest Grove, no estimate timeline.
DTV 27 KSLM frequency change from DTV 16 expected in March.
DTV 49 KWVT frequency/location move expected late April or May.

ETA:
KKEI has an application for DTV 24, at 0.037kW. KPWC has construction permit for DTV 24 at 4 kW"

Ok, not knowing what this above post means, "what DOES it mean?" new stations to watch in Portland Metro????

Noticed for about last 5~days KORS 16.1, -2, -3 have been not showing up much. MY tuner shows a signal of 25~ ish at most vice normal of maybe 45~ w/ peaks of 50+ ....but I saw 18-19 sig strength today...reorienting antenna no help...

IS KORS having problems? Maybe upgrading? abot a year ago they e-mailed me they were gonna fix xmitter and increase their power. I'm on the other side of Prune hill in Camas so their signal is watchable only in "best" conditions....wondering if they are having problems at the moment?

KOIN, lots of "popping" noise at start of a network show. What is it w/ them? No .2 network or "sister station" and terrible audio to boot?

Would like perhaps a .2 Network or Retro TV network to appear here in Portland area w/ enough power to cover WHOLE area inc Camas/Washougal. I'm only 16~ miles from towers!

:)"Northwest Television moves:

DTV 24 KPWC move to Newberg/Forest Grove, no estimate timeline.
DTV 27 KSLM frequency change from DTV 16 expected in March.
DTV 49 KWVT frequency/location move expected late April or May.

ETA:
KKEI has an application for DTV 24, at 0.037kW. KPWC has construction permit for DTV 24 at 4 kW"

Ok, not knowing what this above post means, "what DOES it mean?" new stations to watch in Portland Metro????



Jeff, two posts above yours, Meinename asked about Chs 24, 27, 49, among others. So that's what it means... the status of 24, 27, and 49, not OTA yet, but planned and coming soon... It sounds like a potential conflict looming with real frequency 24, but KPWC already has FCC approval and KKEI does not.

When you get DTV 49, you'll have the RTN you've been wanting, as they will also carry KSLM, as noted in post 7716.

Someone else mentioned the loud pop on KOIN a few months back. It seems to be when they switch from commercial back to program.

Jeff, two posts above yours, Meinename asked about Chs 24, 27, 49, among others. So that's what it means... the status of 24, 27, and 49, not OTA yet, but planned and coming soon... It sounds like a potential conflict looming with real frequency 24, but KPWC already has FCC approval and KKEI does not.

When you get DTV 49, you'll have the RTN you've been wanting, as they will also carry KSLM, as noted in post 7716.

Someone else mentioned the loud pop on KOIN a few months back. It seems to be when they switch from commercial back to program.
@TalkingRat
I wasn't asking.
I was responding to spottedeagle who had asked twice about Telemundo but was given no response.

I checked Ch. 14-51 finding nothing.
My list was of known transmitters that have gone silent.
Some I don't expect to be firing back up any time soon like 27 or 48

Thanks for re-listing the times when the new stuff was expected to come online.

As for KOIN's popping noise, I noticed it alot over the last year whenever they would switch between the local adverts to the HD shows. Used to happen going from the adverts to the Newscasts as well.

@ JeffinWesternWA
Back when KOIN ran 6.2 (KOIN-SD) I remember the CSI:LV over-shot of Las Vegas becoming a big wash of blocks at times.
I don't think their encoder (at the time) could handle more than 1 HD channel period. (I keep trying to write something to follow this up with. My writing keeps turning in to a rant over bitrate. Not beating that drum this time.)

KPTV or KPDX are supposed to carry the .2 network, if it ever launches

Here are the plans for the excellent Do-It-Yourself 2-bay bowtie antenna mentioned above.

When properly located, this works very well for all of the HDTV channels in the Portland-Vancouver area.

A 4-bay version nets another 10-15% improvement, but is trickier to build.

Gary

Where did you find 6 gauge solid wire? I went by Home Depot but everything they had that thick was strands. I'm really interested in building this. I've got everything I need with the exception of the AWG6.

Neil

Where did you find 6 gauge solid wire?
I have six gauge solid copper wire between my circuit breaker panel and earth ground.

It's not for sale though. I'm using it. :)

Where did you find 6 gauge solid wire? I went by Home Depot but everything they had that thick was strands. I'm really interested in building this. I've got everything I need with the exception of the AWG6. Home Depot at Jantzen Beach keeps it on a HUGE motorised rack of wire spools. Grover's Electrical on 78th st, Vancouver, keeps it for half the price of Home Depot. You can use thinner wire for the whiskers if you like, but #6 has the best bandwidth. #12 is fairly critical for the phase lines.

If you're going to solder... here's a tip: The #6 wire acts as a serious heatsink, so you need a 100W (min) soldering iron. It helps tremendously if you pre-heat the copper "V" on a range hot-plate (or spiral). Turn the hot-plate up until it just starts to show a bit of red, then turn it down to keep the temp at that point. Solder the copper while it sits on the hot-plate, then drop a wet cloth on the joint and remove it from the hot-plate.

Gary

I have six gauge solid copper wire between my circuit breaker panel and earth ground.

It's not for sale though. I'm using it. :)

What's your address and when will you not be home? :D

Home Depot at Jantzen Beach keeps it on a HUGE motorised rack of wire spools. Grover's Electrical on 78th st, Vancouver, keeps it for half the price of Home Depot. You can use thinner wire for the whiskers if you like, but #6 has the best bandwidth. #12 is fairly critical for the phase lines.

If you're going to solder... here's a tip: The #6 wire acts as a serious heatsink, so you need a 100W (min) soldering iron. It helps tremendously if you pre-heat the copper "V" on a range hot-plate (or spiral). Turn the hot-plate up until it just starts to show a bit of red, then turn it down to keep the temp at that point. Solder the copper while it sits on the hot-plate, then drop a wet cloth on the joint and remove it from the hot-plate.

Gary

I tried the HD on 192nd in East Vancouver and all that was there was non-solid core. Good thought on Grover's. I'd like to go with #6 because this will be a attic antenna so I want it as sensitive as possible.

For the solder, just standard electrical solder? I've sweat soldered copper pipe before... I was thinking of torching the end of the V then making the connection.

Here are the plans for the excellent Do-It-Yourself 2-bay bowtie antenna mentioned above.

When properly located, this works very well for all of the HDTV channels in the Portland-Vancouver area.

A 4-bay version nets another 10-15% improvement, but is trickier to build.

Gary

Ok, with a grand total of $7.50 in new parts and the rest what I had laying around in the garage, I built this antenna. Parkrose Hardware on 164th has 6AWG solid for $1.19/foot.

This thing pulls channel 8 in blazingly well. It's decent on the rest but it really struggles on 16. For digital VHF it is pretty good but it really falls short on some UHF.

Today I might head up in the attic to see how it works up there.

My DB2 works much better on UHF but this is great for VHF-high.

I am using a 4 bay version of the bowtie antenna. No reason for 6 gauge wire, I use 12 gauge, and it's just fine. I do have a couple of oven grill racks behind it to improve the directionality and it works very well in the attic.

I am using a 4 bay version of the bowtie antenna. No reason for 6 gauge wire, I use 12 gauge, and it's just fine. I do have a couple of oven grill racks behind it to improve the directionality and it works very well in the attic.

Any pictures?

Ok, with a grand total of $7.50 in new parts and the rest what I had laying around in the garage, I built this antenna. Parkrose Hardware on 164th has 6AWG solid for $1.19/foot.

This thing pulls channel 8 in blazingly well. It's decent on the rest but it really struggles on 16. For digital VHF it is pretty good but it really falls short on some UHF.

Today I might head up in the attic to see how it works up there.

My DB2 works much better on UHF but this is great for VHF-high.Getting it into the attic will help. Tune the TV to the weakest station (16?) and move the antenna around to find the strongest signal. And try tilting it slightly upwards. A reflector will help too. The 4-bay version is considerably better for marginal signals.

And remember that the wind we've experienced recently, definitely plays havoc with the signal.

Grover's has AWG6 copper for 34c/ft - less than AWG12 at HD. Grover's does not keep AWG12, though.

Gary

...No reason for 6 gauge wire, I use 12 gauge, and it's just fine. Well, there is a reason for 6 gauge (increased bandwidth), but yes, the antenna still works fine with smaller wire sizes.

Gary

sorry for changing the subject yet again, but does anyone have an idea if or when Univsion (ch. 47) will be going digital in the future. I know La Grande has a digital station, but I was wondering when Portland's would actually go digital. Would love to see some programing in HD when they do!!

suddenly couple weeks ago I can't get KORS ch 16, signal is about 1/2 strength as before, no change in antenna situ. Anybody know if they are working on equip, having probs, etc???? Signal was just about 50+ at peak anyway I'm just into camas but over the hill from rt 14 and in the meadows, just missing line of sight to towers....Weingard 1080 attic mount antenna..

suddenly couple weeks ago I can't get KORS ch 16, signal is about 1/2 strength as before, no change in antenna situ. Anybody know if they are working on equip, having probs, etc???? Signal was just about 50+ at peak anyway I'm just into camas but over the hill from rt 14 and in the meadows, just missing line of sight to towers....Weingard 1080 attic mount antenna..

I noticed that too... If I get some free time tonight (I HOPE!!!!) I'll do some playing with my antennas. My DB2 pulled 16 in STRONG a few weeks ago. I'll see if it still does. That may explanation what i saw with my DIY antenna I made this last weekend.

Yes, at my place, CH16 is pathetically weak with any antenna at the moment.

Gary

KORS improved here, I just started receiving it. Late night a few nights ago, I lost KATU's signal entirely, and it's been choppy since, even though the meters look fine now. Either it's weather disturbance, or something's up.

Just wait a couple months, and KORS will be back to 15 kW.

diddo, even w/ sun and no wind early yteserday it wasn't in, by late afternoon, I could get it, though still pixels a lot, need "more power". Them and RTV would add a LOT to existing lineup of channels!

I played around a bit yesterday with my DIY antenna (still not in the attic) and 16 was HORRIBLE.

I tried putting a mesh screen behind it (about 5") and it cut my signal almost in half. Odd. I thought a rear screen acted as kind of a reflector (???) and helped improve directionality and signal strength. I varied the distance the screen was and it didn't help.

I played around a bit yesterday with my DIY antenna (still not in the attic) and 16 was HORRIBLE.

I tried putting a mesh screen behind it (about 5") and it cut my signal almost in half. Odd. I thought a rear screen acted as kind of a reflector (???) and helped improve directionality and signal strength. I varied the distance the screen was and it didn't help. Assuming the mesh screen is metal, flat, 3-4ft wide, and the spacing is a constant 5", it will convert the reception pattern from a large figure 8 (antenna in the middle) to a 3-lobed pattern like a maple leaf. You may have to redirect the antenna to point the center lobe at the towers. (The towers may have landed in a null zone).

You also need to be careful of building interference if the antenna is still on the ground floor.

Gary

My DB2 pulled 16 in STRONG a few weeks ago. I'll see if it still does. So did you make this comparison yet? Is the DB2 stronger when mounted in the SAME location and tested at the same time of day?

Gary

So did you make this comparison yet? Is the DB2 stronger when mounted in the SAME location and tested at the same time of day?

Gary

Not yet... I'll have to pull the balun off my DIY and put it back on the DB2.

Gary writes:
> Yes, at my place, CH16 is pathetically weak with any antenna at the moment.

Fri Jan 22 18:28:20 pst 2010
signal strength 91%
signal quality 75%
That's after a 4-way splitter, various filters and a buncha coax.

TalkingRat writes:
> I lost KATU's signal entirely, and it's been choppy since

KATU reception has been terrible for me lately. :-(
You know reception is bad when the mpeg decoder crashes.

KWBP (or whatever their call letters are this week) has also
been worse lately.

The weather seems pretty benign, so what's going on?
Are they working on the antennas? Is there a new source of
interference? Or what?

So did you make this comparison yet? Is the DB2 stronger when mounted in the SAME location and tested at the same time of day?

Gary

Ok, I had a chance to play a bit today and got out the DB2. It was in the same location but different time of day (afternoon verses evening). The signal strength of 16 was about 1/2 of what it was before. Other UHF stations were about the same as before (average to good on the TV signal bar).

Assuming the mesh screen is metal, flat, 3-4ft wide, and the spacing is a constant 5", it will convert the reception pattern from a large figure 8 (antenna in the middle) to a 3-lobed pattern like a maple leaf. You may have to redirect the antenna to point the center lobe at the towers. (The towers may have landed in a null zone).

You also need to be careful of building interference if the antenna is still on the ground floor.

Gary

Still on the ground floor (I hope to get it in the attic tomorrow) but I did get to experiment with the mesh screen a bit more. I found that having the screen about 5" behind and tipping the antenna back a bit gave me a nice improvement in signal strength (went from "average" to high "good" on the TV signal scale) for UHF. The screen seemed however to reduce the signal on VHF stations though. Channel 8 dropped to low levels when the screen was there.

Well, my DIY antenna in the attic was a dismal failure. I was up in the attic sitting in the rafters with my laptop so I see the signal strength changes as I moved the antenna around. With the DIY I never had above ~50% on any station. When I was down in the living room (two stories down) I could tune in to everything.

In the same spot the DB2 could tune everything but VHF... That's too bad. Looks like I may need to go with a non-DIY job...

Back when ION was on rf4, I threw together a dipole for it, and it worked fine, even with sloppy connections.

I got some ideas from this site, here's the page showing the length.

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html

And on this page, the "An Antenna You Can Build" section has links to 3 figures, so you can see how it was put together.

http://www.tackyliving.com/article.php?id=61

I used antenna wire from the 1970s, added a balun and stuck it on a combiner/splitter, along with my homemade coathanger antenna. This was in a room facing the tower, to steady the dipole I taped it flat to the back of a piece of 3/4" trim with a bit of freezer tape, and tacked the trim under the windowsill. The tradeoff with the dipole was that 16 was a bit weaker, other than that it was perfect. And free. If you have the parts, it's worth a try before you add expense. My coathanger antenna does ok with 8/10/12 as long as it's precisely aimed for those three stations.

The signal strength of 16 was about 1/2 of what it was before. Other UHF stations were about the same as before (average to good on the TV signal bar). Not sure what you mean by "before". Do you mean that CH16 on the DIY is half as strong as on the DB2 in the same location?

Gary

I found that having the screen about 5" behind and tipping the antenna back a bit gave me a nice improvement in signal strength (went from "average" to high "good" on the TV signal scale) for UHF. The screen seemed however to reduce the signal on VHF stations though. Channel 8 dropped to low levels when the screen was there. This is normal. To optimize for VHF frequencies, the screen should be about 15" behind the antenna, whereas 5" is best for UHF. So you could try moving the reflector screen a little to find the best compromise for CH8 and CH16.

Everything is a tradeoff.

Gary

Well, my DIY antenna in the attic was a dismal failure. I was up in the attic sitting in the rafters with my laptop so I see the signal strength changes as I moved the antenna around. With the DIY I never had above ~50% on any station. When I was down in the living room (two stories down) I could tune in to everything. Remember that the antenna has to look though the roofing materials, all of which attenuate the signal. Ideally, you should have nothing but plywood and shingles in the signal path. If your roof does not face the transmission towers, you may have rafters or other obstructions in the way. Watch out especially for metal objects (like ductwork, gutters, water pipes, foil-backed insulation, or aluminium radiant barriers) - these can kill your signal. Additionally, water trapped in shingles can have an attenuating effect. It may be that your downstairs location has fewer of these obstructions.

Gary

Not sure what you mean by "before". Do you mean that CH16 on the DIY is half as strong as on the DB2 in the same location?

Gary

Sorry, I should have been more clear...

The signal of 16 was much stronger about a month or so ago on the DB2. This is with the antenna in the same location. There was a discussion about 16 having a poorer signal recently.

Looks like I may need to go with a non-DIY job...

FWIW I was at Fry's a few days ago and they seem to have added to their selection of OTA antennas. They carry both Channel Master and Winegard. I didn't get a chance to look carefully enough to see it they have the "right" products, e.g. combo VHF-high and UHF.

FWIW I was at Fry's a few days ago and they seem to have added to their selection of OTA antennas. They carry both Channel Master and Winegard. I didn't get a chance to look carefully enough to see it they have the "right" products, e.g. combo VHF-high and UHF.

I noticed that too. They had the Winegard HD-1080 for ~$45 or so. You can find it cheaper online but that may be worth the fact you can easily return it if it's not good for your location.

Does any body have any idea where KOIN 6 has their satellite receive site? The studio's in the KOIN tower and there is no satellite dishes anywhere in the neighborhood. I'm wondering how/where they get feeds from CBS.

Does any body have any idea where KOIN 6 has their satellite receive site? The studio's in the KOIN tower and there is no satellite dishes anywhere in the neighborhood. I'm wondering how/where they get feeds from CBS.

If you look at Google Maps Satellite view it appears that the KOIN Tower dome is open at the corners with what looks like dishes in those open areas. There would be STLs to/from the KOIN transmitter building in the 5500 block of SW Barnes Road, Portland 97221.

Ah ha. I think i get it. 5500 barnes road must be where CBS comes in. I don't think CBS uses Ku-band like NBC does and there's no way a c-band dish would fit atop KOIN tower. I see several dishes at 5500. Didn't know they had a building there.

Channel 27.1 Salem (still originating from channel 16) was on the air yesterday. Hopefully it won't be long before it comes from channel 27 and the power goes up.

Benchmadeuser, thanks for the news!

Was the 27.1 that showed up KSLM, then? It has been quite confusing that RF16 belongs to KSLM, but KSLM ended up in the dot2 spot, as RF16.2 and virtual 17.2, while KWVT got the RF16.1 and virtual 17.1 designations. I guess it's still a bit muddy how it's going to end up.

I gave up waiting for the power change, and moved my antenna back to the garage attic, so I don't think I'll get 27, even when they up the power. Although, I never know, I get a few stations off the back end.

I thought the OTA feed of the Super Bowl yesterday was excellent...i'm in the bethany/beaverton area and have a home built indoor (DIY) HD antenna. We hosted 25 plus people and had no issues whatsover. I was a little concerned because this was my first SB with the antenna (and no cable/fios), but i wasn't disappointed at all!

I agree image quality was good, but I didn't carefully study it looking for artifacts. Unlike KGW, KOIN doesn't seem to carry bit-robbing additional subchannels.

Does anyone know what the actual transmitted bit rate was for the game?

Does anyone know what the actual transmitted bit rate was for the game?

My math shows 16.732 Mbps.

Any update on my adventures in OTA programing....

First, I have to call myself out for being a total goon-head (now I know where my kid gets it....).

I learned the phrase "coax antenna" recently. I've got three coax lines going in to the house from when it was built. I picked one at random for my attic antenna install and was pleasantly surprised to see I picked the "correct" one based on the signal I was getting with the antenna in the attic. That's where my stupidity began....

Based on the extremly poor reception with my DIY antenna in the attic (~50% signal strength on the same stations I was getting 90% on down stairs) I picked up the Winegard HD-1080 (great deal... $32 shipped from buy.com). I took it to the attic and was moving it around only to get the same ~50% signal.

-- Side note -- I have a HDHomerun networked tuner. Using a laptop I was able to watch the signal strength, symbol quality and signal quality change as I moved the antenna around. VERY handy and easy to see how positioning affects the signal. -- End side note --

So after seeing the poor signal I was very disheartened (and confused base on my line of site to the towers) and unplugged the HD-1080. I glanced down as the laptop and noticed the signal was still there and unchanged from when the antenna was plugged in. D'oh! It then dawned on me that I picked the wrong coax line and the one I chose was simply picking up a signal and acting like a poor antenna. D'oh!!!!!!! :o

After picking the right one, my signal using the HD-1080 is GREAT. The only station I have an issue with is 16. I get about 70% signal strength. With the "major networks" I'm at 100% signal strength. Typically I get:

Signal Strength: 100%
Symbol Quality: 65% - 70% (though on some I get near 100%)
Signal Quality: 90%

With 16 however it's very poor and strangely I can lock on to 16.2 but not 16.1. Not sure why... Still, there isn't much on the 16 transport I'm too interested in!

I'm just REALLY happy with the quality of the main networks. This means I can get rid of Comcast!!! WOO HOOO!!!!!

think I had the first W1080 in the area, good choice, though it seems VERY picky on orientation...it's in my attic over at lacamas meadows, just 3 miles east of 192nd, almost line of sight to towers but, not quite, all major channels fine, even low power 26-1 is always "on"....KRCW ch 32 is my best, good weather I can peak it at 100%. I too have probs w/ 16 KORS, earlier this week, reoriented (AGAIN), got peaks of 54-55that's been my best since day 1w/ good calm weather stready signal of high 40's/50it was / seemed watchable 99% of time, thought problem solved... rains, wind came and (sigh) it's unwatchable w/ signal in 20's/30 again...oh well, 5W~ power must be a problem, occasionaly 16-3 America One has better programming like sat am's and some eveings/am's....looking forward to a couple more sub channels for choices, I use my laptop via HDMI to stream tv and radio through the 14 speakers in the house, with 25~ channels FREE, there's enough "nothing on"....

think I had the first W1080 in the area, good choice, though it seems VERY picky on orientation...it's in my attic over at lacamas meadows, just 3 miles east of 192nd, almost line of sight to towers but, not quite, all major channels fine, even low power 26-1 is always "on"....KRCW ch 32 is my best, good weather I can peak it at 100%. I too have probs w/ 16 KORS, earlier this week, reoriented (AGAIN), got peaks of 54-55that's been my best since day 1w/ good calm weather stready signal of high 40's/50it was / seemed watchable 99% of time, thought problem solved... rains, wind came and (sigh) it's unwatchable w/ signal in 20's/30 again...oh well, 5W~ power must be a problem, occasionaly 16-3 America One has better programming like sat am's and some eveings/am's....looking forward to a couple more sub channels for choices, I use my laptop via HDMI to stream tv and radio through the 14 speakers in the house, with 25~ channels FREE, there's enough "nothing on"....

Yeah, I'm really impressed with the W1080.

What is strange is how I can lock on to 16-2 but not 16-1 and I don't even see 16-3. I'll look at the signal numbers tonight and maybe a shove to the left or right will give me a bit more signal.

Here is a quote from mbm over at SiliconDust (http://www.silicondust.com) explaining the what's reported from the HDHomerun tuner. I thought it was good info and would pass it on.

There are three percentages reported by the HDHomeRun -

Signal Strength (ss)
- raw power level as measured by the receiver

Signal Quality (snq)
- how clearly defined the digital data is

Symbol Quality (seq)
- Amount of correct or corrected data over the last second

The above definitions can be confusing, so a much simpler definition is to imagine listening to the radio:
- Signal Strength represents the volume
- Signal Quality represents how clearly you can hear the lyrics
- Symbol Quality indicates the percentage of the lyrics you could hear or guess correctly

As it turns out, Signal Strength is somewhat irrelevant; if your antenna isn't pointed properly, it doesn't matter how loud you turn up the volume, the static will prevent you from hearing the lyrics correctly. Similarly, amplifying a weak HDTV signal can result in a high signal strength but too much noise to decode the digital data correctly.

Use the Signal Strength for a rough idea of direction, but align the antenna for the highest Signal Quality, ignoring Signal Strength. When aimed correctly, Symbol Quality will show 100%, indicating no errors in the output. Splitters and amplifiers can introduce noise which will lower the Signal Quality, even if the Signal Strength increases.

Looks like it's back to the attic for me.... Maybe the weather is affecting it but channel 8 is now giving me some serious issues. Signal has dropped in the low 70's and the symbol quality is jumping around and goes to the 50's occasionally. Maybe a small tweak will help (I hope)!

Looks like it's back to the attic for me.... Maybe the weather is affecting it but channel 8 is now giving me some serious issues. Signal has dropped in the low 70's and the symbol quality is jumping around and goes to the 50's occasionally. Maybe a small tweak will help (I hope)! Well, now that you've found the correct coax cable (!!), maybe you should try the DIY again, based on it's excellent performance with CH8.

Gary

Well, now that you've found the correct coax cable (!!), maybe you should try the DIY again, based on it's excellent performance with CH8.

Gary

I've been thinking the same thing!!! Since I'm heading up in the attic to move around the HD1080 I may as well take the DIY up there with me!

Adventures in attic Insulation!!!!

I spent a romantic evening (with apologies to my wife) on valentines day in the attic playing with the antennas. First, I was off about 20 degrees on the direction (the HD1080 was facing ~210 rather than 234). Once I corrected that I had a *tiny* improvement but not too much. 8.X was still really bad on the signal quality. I then wanted to make sure it was level and straitened it up (no joke) about 4mm. BOOM! HUGE improvement. 8.X is now almost error free and the signal increase about 10%. There are still a few problems every 10 minutes or so but overall it was a total success.

The down side is 10.X is now totally unwatchable. Even worse than 8.X. Still, for now it's a good compromise.

As for the DIY antenna, oh how I wish I would have gotten the correct coax line to start with. That antenna does GREAT. For VHF it really does beat the HD1080. It's not as good on UHF but my signals are so good it would do the job without problems.

I think what I'm going to end up doing is getting a UVSJ UHF-VHF Splitter/Combiner (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=UVSJ&d=Pico-Macom-UVSJ-UHF-VHF-Band-SeparatorCombiner-for-Antenna-%28UVSJ%29&c=Signal%20Combiners&sku=) and placing my DIY in the attic's best position for VHF and the HD-1080 in the best location for UHF. I'm hoping to get the best of both worlds there!

KGW has been squirrley lately, diddo for the signal probs, though mine is higher # than yours the "variance" has been a lot, who knows their prob?, good weather today but, KORS again has poor signal ???, can't figure it our but, I've about given up on Ch 16...hope Retro TV comes up soon w/ enough power to get over here, ....remember w/ the Wein1080, it's very sENSITIVE to direction, small "tweaks" do make a differnce, leave if "loose" to occasionally turn it couple degrees for improvements ...seems mine is never quite "set" though..and it's been 1 1/2 years! FREE Tv is GOOD tv!

I've been posting over at SiliconDust (at first I wondered if my issues were tuner related) and Jasonl (one of the SiliconDust tech guys) said this:

Many of Winegard's antennas are great, especially the HD769 series. The HD1080, on the other hand, has lousy gain on VHF, no directionality, and a negative front-to-back ratio on UHF. Not recommended under any circumstances.

I asked if he wanted to buy one cheap :D

Overall, it does a very good job on our UHF. When I get the VHF-UHF joiner I think I'll have a great combination between it and my DIY.

:D:D:D

HUGE success today!!!!

I bought a Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner from SolidSignal the other day (for less than $2.00 plus ~$4 shipping) and amazingly enough, FedEx delivered it TODAY (I don't think they've ever delivered to me on Saturday before).

Back up to the attic....

Playing around with the UVSJ, it does a great job. I kept the HD1080 in place where it was because it does fine for UHF. I then moved the DIY around to a good location to mount it and was immediately rewarded with 100% signal strength from 8, 10 and 12.

Now every channel (with the exception of 16) is between 90% and 100% on signal strength and symbol quality. I've not had one drop or issued with any VHF since I added the UVSJ to the line and went with two antennas. It's amazing how well that worked!!!!

Thanks to everyone here (especially Jeff for the Camas help and Gary for the DIY plans).

If you are having any VHF issues at all get the UVSJ then position one antenna for the best UHF reception and make the DIY (for about $5) and place it for best VHF.

I'm picking up the phone now and calling Comcast to end my TV service!!!

I'm picking up the phone now and calling Comcast to end my TV service!!!

I think that's the best part of the story!

I think that's the best part of the story!

Have I mentioned recently how much I hate Comcast?

I called to cancel my TV service.

They RAISED my cable internet bill by $15 a month because I'm no longer a TV subscriber!!!!!!!!!

To top it off, when I said I no longer wanted their TV service the lady I was speaking with actually told me that without Comcast I would not be able to get any TV reception "since the analog to digital transition" so unless I no longer wanted to watch television I needed to keep Comcast. That's when I told her that I've been watching it free with an antenna and if it really came down to it I could just use the Verizon Fiber in my neighborhood.

So, in a move that totally baffled her, I told her I didn't care, cut the TV service.

I'll be calling Verizon tomorrow to set them up as my new internet provider. I'm not saying they will be any better but at least they will be different!

You know that they do have a customer retention department that will offer promo discounts to get you to stay. I have called them and just said I was a long time customer and felt I was paying too much and they gave me about 50 bucks a month off to make me happy.
I have to call again and complain to see if they'll do a similar deal but that's pretty arrogant and stupid to claim you can't get any TV now that everyone has gone digital.
They weren't required to go digital at all but I think they saw a good excuse to get more bandwidth back and force non cable box folks to get some kind of box, then at least order some PPV movies at last or get mad when the free box sucks and rent a better HD box.

glad it worked out..., btw, what is your ch 16 (KORS) sig strength?, I played w/ my ant yet again this weekend, I somehow was oriented too far "south" and moved it back westward to about 260' or so...., I improved KORS from about a 30's (unwatchable) to a 48-55 depending on wind/weather, though the much more almost due west face has about given KPDX (49) a tough time and I lost ch 26 which originates from the south, not the antenna farm. I did improve 2,6,8, and 12, and the others are still fine, a more southerly angle gives me an "almost 100%" on ch 32 but, I lose KORS, the W1080 is fussy but, does bring in channels! Guess the spread of the towers and orientation makes a difference from 16 miles away !?? Down here in the Lacamas valley vice you up on Prune Hill, I don't have "line of sight" and am a 1/2~ mile from actually seeing the towers 16~ miles away. Don't know what rain/wind willl do as all our adjustments seem to be in the calm, fair skies of the past week! KORS needs a power upgrade and I imagaine my attic/roof cuts the signal strength a bit. I've got only one tv connected direct w/ RG6 though it's probably a 100' foot run of it.....BTW you can get Cricket internet for $40.58 a month, (no router required, just buy the modem that connects to the pc)...it is portable but, the speed is more "DSL like" vice higher speedcable internet. Still, eliminates Crapcast! I've used it , it's fine except for video streaming where it can't keep up. But, I run netflix via an HDMI from my laptop to my 46" tv w/o problem...as well as radio, etc., and use the tv as #2 monitor which is connected to 14 speakers throughout my little palace...

glad it worked out..., btw, what is your ch 16 (KORS) sig strength?, I played w/ my ant yet again this weekend, I somehow was oriented too far "south" and moved it back westward to about 260' or so...., I improved KORS from about a 30's (unwatchable) to a 48-55 depending on wind/weather, though the much more almost due west face has about given KPDX (49) a tough time and I lost ch 26 which originates from the south, not the antenna farm. I did improve 2,6,8, and 12, and the others are still fine, a more southerly angle gives me an "almost 100%" on ch 32 but, I lose KORS, the W1080 is fussy but, does bring in channels! Guess the spread of the towers and orientation makes a difference from 16 miles away !?? Down here in the Lacamas valley vice you up on Prune Hill, I don't have "line of sight" and am a 1/2~ mile from actually seeing the towers 16~ miles away. Don't know what rain/wind willl do as all our adjustments seem to be in the calm, fair skies of the past week! KORS needs a power upgrade and I imagaine my attic/roof cuts the signal strength a bit. I've got only one tv connected direct w/ RG6 though it's probably a 100' foot run of it.....BTW you can get Cricket internet for $40.58 a month, (no router required, just buy the modem that connects to the pc)...it is portable but, the speed is more "DSL like" vice higher speedcable internet. Still, eliminates Crapcast! I've used it , it's fine except for video streaming where it can't keep up. But, I run netflix via an HDMI from my laptop to my 46" tv w/o problem...as well as radio, etc., and use the tv as #2 monitor which is connected to 14 speakers throughout my little palace...

For me, KORS sits right around 65% to 75%. What is odd is 16.1 does not tune in at all but 16.2 and 16.3 come in with no issues.

All other stations, both VHF and UHF are 95% to 100%.

My cable run is far from optimal... There is 50' of RG-6 from the antennas to the outside of the house then probably another 75' to 100' of RG-59 in-wall. Still, my signal does not suffer!

If you're having issues at all with the VHF high you should try building the antenna Gary suggested and giving that a shot. If that improves things then you can add a UVSJ like on my setup. That way you can tune the positions for each band and maximize your reception.

My VHF is fine, it's KORS (I get 16.1 fine but, it's HSN, not even on my remote, - who cares:) and to an extent, by maxing KORS, KPDX (49) goes from 80 %~ to under 60% then suffers (grrrrrr),.... if I didn't care about getting KORS 16.3 for 3~ hours a week, I'd orient to KRCW (32.1) which I can get peaks of 100% and forget it but, that doesn't work for KORS reception, ....you're MUCH better signal strength than me w/ line o' sight, ....I was/am getting KORS (16) w/ clouds, no wind, no rain, calm and overcast TODAY (Tues) at a max of 55-56 this am, high 40's to 50 peak w/ light afternoon rain....low-mid 40's, some pixels w/ PM rain....my best yet reception of ch 16 so far was the am #'s...., guess I'm almost in the sweet spot!?
Though my antenna has got to see "through": my roof, my neighbors house/attic, then a few sporadic trees, then heavy trees about 1/4 miile away, then the gentle hills over toward 192nd/Rt 14.....the heavy rain and wind may tell differnt stories. Try the Cricket for internet,... soon, hopefully Clear WiMax will be here, they plan to be but, not as of yet, though if you can "see" to Gresham, that's their nearest tower...Otherwise, Cricket for the price is decent and wireless/portable but, only basic DSL speed...in summary: I guess all the PDX tv market towers are spread out enough to make getting all stations a compromise of direction placement for the various signals??

If you are having any VHF issues at all get the UVSJ then position one antenna for the best UHF reception and make the DIY (for about $5) and place it for best VHF. I'm really glad to hear that you've got such excellent signals. Now, hopefully that reception nirvana doesn't change when the leaves come back in spring!

There may be something unique about your position, but the DIY, especially the 4-bay version, can do just as well as other UHF antennas if the plans are followed exactly. Your non-ideal cabling situation may have contributed to the difficulties you experienced too.

So, for the benefit of others, you may want to try the DIY antenna alone, before bothering with UVSJ combiners and the like.

Gary

I'm really glad to hear that you've got such excellent signals. Now, hopefully that reception nirvana doesn't change when the leaves come back in spring!

There may be something unique about your position, but the DIY, especially the 4-bay version, can do just as well as other UHF antennas if the plans are followed exactly. Your non-ideal cabling situation may have contributed to the difficulties you experienced too.

So, for the benefit of others, you may want to try the DIY antenna alone, before bothering with UVSJ combiners and the like.

Gary

Until the leaves come out in the spring and I have to (potentially) adjust something, I'm DONE in the attic!!!!

My only leaves are about 1/8 ~ mile away, wonder if they will affect signal?? ALSO wondering: with about 75+ feet of RG6 coax from my wall outlet to the antenna, the only break being the wall outlet and with just one tv, should I think about a preamplifier? Over 50' runof cable, perhaps close to 100~ feet seems like maybe I've got a big loss happening???? thoughts??? And, if I add a splitter and 2nd tv? I don't "max" any signals, though I can approach 90's~ signal on a couple channels......

My only leaves are about 1/8 ~ mile away, wonder if they will affect signal?? ALSO wondering: with about 75+ feet of RG6 coax from my wall outlet to the antenna, the only break being the wall outlet and with just one tv, should I think about a preamplifier? Over 50' runof cable, perhaps close to 100~ feet seems like maybe I've got a big loss happening???? thoughts??? And, if I add a splitter and 2nd tv? I don't "max" any signals, though I can approach 90's~ signal on a couple channels......DON'T get a pre-amp! At 15 miles with LOS and several splits I still need to dampen the signal quite a bit.
(Diplex SAT-IN, 60 foot RG6 run, reverse diplex, combine CH.3 with ANT, split for 2 TV's)
With KGW upping their power I've had more problems keeping them coming in clean at 15 miles with the antenna near some large satellite dishes. I decided to try attenuating with a high-quality 4-way splitter. Had to get some 75-Ohm terminator caps to make it work though.

Heck, at 8 miles I have the antenna on the North end of the house. A run of 50 ft. RG-6Q to the cable box where it gets splits 3-ways (-3dB) to the main room then split 2-ways again to the bedrooms for -6dB at the bedroom TV's
It then runs 50 ft. back to the main room where it gets split 5 ways.
A 2-way (-3dB) going to a 3-way (-5.5dB) and another 2-way (-3dB)
The Media Center gets -9dB on it's 2 ATSC tuners
The Olevia, Office TV and 3rd Bedroom TV get -11.5dB and that's not including line loss or any other factors.
And they all perform wonderfully. :) Except for the hiccups we've been having with KGW since the start of the Olympics. :mad:
Diagrams attached

I've had more problems from "bad" connectors and cheap splitters than line loss.
How do I know? I've been reusing RG-6 whenever possible.

=============================================
Lee asked earlier about indoor reception, Here's an update:
I was toying around with the extra 75-Ohm terminator caps and another high-quality 4-way splitter. (-7dB loss) and now I can receive all but Ch.16 on a set of rabbit-ear VHF rods using a Zenith DTT-900.
My ongoing problem with indoor reception of KRCW 32 must have been a multipath problem, since attenuating the signal -7dB brought it in just fine.
=============================================

Next subject: I was poking around with TSReader and noticed 1.8 MBps of KOPB being used for PID 0x0160
TSReader had no idea what that was for. I'm still learning the program. But I was wondering if it might be a ATSC-M/H stream?
Google searching only came up with other raw TSReader reports by others, unrelated an useless.
I know null packets are 0xffff so that's not them.

Anyone in the know?

anybody else speak "Geek-ese" ? :eek: BTW: I realized today (again) the "hard" (late afternoon here on Weds) rain is good for a 15~% reduction in signal strength from the calm sunny or foggy, calm signals..the showers, etc., are about a 10%~ drop...hmmmm

anybody else speak "Geek-ese" ? :eek: BTW: I realized today (again) the "hard" (late afternoon here on Weds) rain is good for a 15~% reduction in signal strength from the calm sunny or foggy, calm signals..the showers, etc., are about a 10%~ drop...hmmmm

Ouch! You wound me. :( :o ;)
Seriously though, it's your money.

anyone have any update on when Univision Portland will be going digital? Im hoping it will be before the World Cup this summer but its looking less and less likely

meinename wonders:
> I was poking around with TSReader and noticed 1.8 MBps of KOPB
> being used for PID 0x0160 TSReader had no idea what that was for.

Hmmm... ctrl_type=0x0=UNDEFINED very helpful...not.

#include too_many_subchannels.h


Summary after scanning first 76573896 packets:
14395 MBytes processed @ 0 Mb/s
1040616 pes_pkts processed
103909 atsc_pkts, w/ distribution:
sst=6827/6827, mgt=57202/1, vct=19616/1, rrt=108/1, dcct=0/0, dccsct=0/0
Dropped pkts (Continuity Counter Errors) = 0
Active PIDs in this stream
PID=0x0, ctrl_type=0x3=PAT, pkt_cnt=74231
PID=0x30, ctrl_type=0xa=PMT, pkt_cnt=19795
PID=0x31, ctrl_type=0x2=VIDEO, pkt_cnt=36336051
PID=0x34, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=1558920
PID=0x35, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=519640
PID=0x40, ctrl_type=0xa=PMT, pkt_cnt=19795
PID=0x41, ctrl_type=0x2=VIDEO, pkt_cnt=8998868
PID=0x44, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=779461
PID=0x45, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=519641
PID=0x46, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=519641
PID=0x50, ctrl_type=0xa=PMT, pkt_cnt=19795
PID=0x51, ctrl_type=0x2=VIDEO, pkt_cnt=8153476
PID=0x54, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=779460
PID=0x55, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=519640
PID=0x60, ctrl_type=0xa=PMT, pkt_cnt=19795
PID=0x61, ctrl_type=0x2=VIDEO, pkt_cnt=2411390
PID=0x64, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=779460
PID=0x65, ctrl_type=0x1=AUDIO_AC3, pkt_cnt=779459
PID=0x160, ctrl_type=0x0=UNDEFINED, pkt_cnt=7766661
PID=0x1d00, ctrl_type=0x6=EIT, pkt_cnt=178976
PID=0x1d01, ctrl_type=0x6=EIT, pkt_cnt=24144
PID=0x1d02, ctrl_type=0x6=EIT, pkt_cnt=11723
PID=0x1d03, ctrl_type=0x6=EIT, pkt_cnt=12223
PID=0x1e00, ctrl_type=0x7=ETT, pkt_cnt=12191
PID=0x1e01, ctrl_type=0x7=ETT, pkt_cnt=6933
PID=0x1e02, ctrl_type=0x7=ETT, pkt_cnt=5712
PID=0x1e03, ctrl_type=0x7=ETT, pkt_cnt=4341
PID=0x1e80, ctrl_type=0x7=ETT, pkt_cnt=1184
PID=0x1ffb, ctrl_type=0x5=ATSC, pkt_cnt=103909
PID=0x1fff, ctrl_type=0x14=NULL, pkt_cnt=5523591
Stream contains 4 program(s).
Default program is 3.
Program 3: 10-1 OPB-HD:
PID=0x31 Video (MPEG-2)
PID=0x34 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng
PID=0x35 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng
Program 4: 10-2 OPB:
PID=0x41 Video (MPEG-2)
PID=0x44 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng
PID=0x45 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng
PID=0x46 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = spa
Program 5: 10-3 OPBPlus:
PID=0x51 Video (MPEG-2)
PID=0x54 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng
PID=0x55 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng
Program 6: 10-4 OPB-FM:
PID=0x61 Video (MPEG-2)
PID=0x64 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng
PID=0x65 Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng

Next subject: I was poking around with TSReader and noticed 1.8 MBps of KOPB being used for PID 0x0160
TSReader had no idea what that was for. I'm still learning the program. But I was wondering if it might be a ATSC-M/H stream?
Google searching only came up with other raw TSReader reports by others, unrelated an useless.
I know null packets are 0xffff so that's not them.

Anyone in the know?

Do an HTML Export, check all the boxes in the Export window except EIT and Thumbnails, then e-mail the resulting capture to me. webmaster at rabbitears dot info. I'll then see if I can figure something out.

- Trip

Actually, I found it was in my old capture from last May, as well. I'm pretty sure it's a datacasting service. I found a news release on the OPB site from 2006 about them adding a datacasting service to their stream. http://www.opb.org/insideopb/opbnews/opbarchives/general/

Scroll to September 12, 2006.

I'd actually still ask if you could send me a new HTML Export. I'd actually like new ones on several stations, if you'd be willing. Let me know.

- Trip

Actually, I found it was in my old capture from last May, as well. I'm pretty sure it's a datacasting service. I found a news release on the OPB site from 2006 about them adding a datacasting service to their stream. http://www.opb.org/insideopb/opbnews/opbarchives/general/

Scroll to September 12, 2006.

I'd actually still ask if you could send me a new HTML Export. I'd actually like new ones on several stations, if you'd be willing. Let me know.

- Trip

Check your inbox!

I'm gonna play with the IP/DVB mode and see what I get...

Check your inbox!

I'm gonna play with the IP/DVB mode and see what I get...

Check yours. :)

- Trip

Check yours. :)

- Trip

Yep it's datacasting alright. Seems to be a test feed for now.

If you have a ATSC card for your PC and it works with Windows Media Center (I'm making a bit of an assumption) you should be able to use TSReader to help decode it.
To decode it I needed 2 extra pieces of software. Winpcap (which is free) and another that I got from KET's website. I googled "atsc datacasting decoder" The only part you need out of that KET datacast zip file is the Triveni software

To get this to work, the instructions assume that TSReader already works with your tuner.
I also highly recommend you install a Microsoft loopback adapter to avoid other networking problems. Installing a loopback adapter is a software solution and is outside the scope of these instructions.

Instructions:

Install Triveni from the Triveni3.2 folder, opening setup.exe
Install WinPCap and reboot
Open TSReader and have it tune to RF Ch. 10
On the menubar, click File and select IP/DVB mode
Select 0x0160 and click OK
click the plus marks on the left window so that you get a tree with the following items:
0x0160
+|_ MAC XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX
+|_225.0.0.1
Right click on 225.0.0.1 and select Rebroadcast UDP stream.
Select the loopback adapter [Or whichever physical adapter you have installed]
Windows may ask you about allowing TSReader. Click Allow
Now open up the datacasting software and click Start.
Select the loopback adapter [Or whichever physical adapter you have installed]
Windows may ask you about allowing java.something. Click Allow
Now the catalog will come up and you just need to wait while the different items are delivered


The instructions were tested and worked on Windows XP Media Center Edition
You mileage may vary.

Very nice! I had no idea it was possible to receive datacasting without specialized hardware.

- Trip

Who knew that 19 Mbit/s could be sliced so many ways:

10-1 1080i HD
10-2 SD
10-3 SD
10-4 called OPB FM Radio but also has relatively low bandwidth video
plus datacasting

I think it's probably good for Oregon's "community" that OPB has all these different subchannels. Better than if they just had a single true HD channel. Now if they would only drop the pretense that they actually broadcast "HD", everything would be fine.

I bet it'd look better if they side-converted the 1080i to 720p.

- Trip

Very nice! I had no idea it was possible to receive datacasting without specialized hardware.

- Trip

The Triveni software is the special part as far as I'm concerned.
(geek-speak alert!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model
With the part that has changed the most is the Physical and Link layers. ATSC-to-IP. The fancy $300 adapters (referenced in the video in the datacast, North Carolina UNC-TV 1998) aren't worth that much anymore when you can buy a USB-stick ATSC-tuner for $50 these days.
The datacast is a standard IPv4 multicast on the "network and transport" level.
It's Triveni on the "Presentaion and Application" layer that is odd to me.

I'm focused now toward finding an Free/Open Source Software solution to taking the datacast and piecing back together the files automatically.

MobileDTV(ATSC-M/H) as far as I am to understand, will be watch-able using much of the same software. The videos will be regular MPEG4(h.264?)
that will be played "incomplete"

So flag PID 0x0160 as a "Triveni/SkyScraper" datacast for now.

MobileDTV(ATSC-M/H) as far as I am to understand, will be watch-able using much of the same software. The videos will be regular MPEG4(h.264?)
that will be played "incomplete"

From speaking with people who had a hand in writing the standard, I am under the impression that this will not be possible.

However everything else you said makes sense. Granted, I forgot most of the OSI model, but... :)

- Trip

From speaking with people who had a hand in writing the standard, I am under the impression that this will not be possible.

However everything else you said makes sense. Granted, I forgot most of the OSI model, but... :)

- Trip
Don't need to remember it but need to know when it's applicable!

From the model I was shown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ATSC-MH_Layer-Model.png
So it's MPEG4 as an AVC video and HE-AAC audio stream
I would change the datacast instructions at line 10 to "Open VLC"
You would have VLC open the RTP stream which as far as I understand would be the RTSP stream for VLC.

===========================================

I don't think changing the OPB-HD feed to 720p would help that much.
KPXG ION's feed is about the same bitrate as KOPB's and they both show that they are under 11Mbps with all of the "block up" they do.

I haven't asked my satellite buddy's to check the bitrate on ION to see if it is any higher than 11Mbps, but I wish KPXG would give the last 2Mbps to the ION HD feed...

Don't need to remember it but need to know when it's applicable!

From the model I was shown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ATSC-MH_Layer-Model.png
So it's MPEG4 as an AVC video and HE-AAC audio stream
I would change the datacast instructions at line 10 to "Open VLC"
You would have VLC open the RTP stream which as far as I understand would be the RTSP stream for VLC.

My understanding is that they added in a lot of error correction such that it is incompatible with existing ATSC receivers, even if they can decode MPEG-4. I could be wrong on that; someone else I know spent a while trying to write some software to decode M/H on a standard tuner and never got anywhere with it.

I don't think changing the OPB-HD feed to 720p would help that much.
KPXG ION's feed is about the same bitrate as KOPB's and they both show that they are under 11Mbps with all of the "block up" they do.

Do you have the full version of TSReader? I might ask you to do me another favor, if you do.

I haven't asked my satellite buddy's to check the bitrate on ION to see if it is any higher than 11Mbps, but I wish KPXG would give the last 2Mbps to the ION HD feed...

Someone in the Chicago thread posted a picture of ION off the satellite dish. Looked very nice.

By the way, check your e-mail.

- Trip

However everything else you said makes sense. Granted, I forgot most of the OSI model, but... :)

Forget the OSI model. There must be a dozen cool things that mess with stuff in a layer they're not supposed to touch to make some magic happen. :)

I just tested your steps on an M/H station and could not get past Step 6--nothing appeared in the left pane.

- Trip

I just tested your steps on an M/H station and could not get past Step 6--nothing appeared in the left pane.

- Trip

Did you select PID 0x0160 or another with actual bandwidth running through it?
Something like 0x1FFx?

EDIT:
Forget the OSI model. There must be a dozen cool things that mess with stuff in a layer they're not supposed to touch to make some magic happen. :)

That's why it's a model not a law or even a rule.
Just a framework to help people learn and try to keep cross-compatibility.

Did you select PID 0x0160 or another with actual bandwidth running through it?
Something like 0x1FFx?

0x1ff6 is the Mobile DTV PID on this particular station. (It was actually a stream capture from KICU in San Jose that had been sent to me a week or two ago.) I selected it and the resulting window had nothing in it. I'm pretty certain it's incompatible.

- Trip

0x1ff6 is the Mobile DTV PID on this particular station. (It was actually a stream capture from KICU in San Jose that had been sent to me a week or two ago.) I selected it and the resulting window had nothing in it. I'm pretty certain it's incompatible.

- Trip

care to share the stream cause I have no idea how long it's going to be before KORK turns on.
It could just be the capture is missing something...

It's a raw capture. Exactly what was transmitted over the air.

http://www.w6rz.net/kicu.ts

- Trip

I cancelled Comcast a few months ago since we'd stopped watching more than a couple hours a week (twins do that to you). I wanted to try to watch some March Madness though so I picked up a Channel Master 4228HD the other day at Fry's based on a couple of the good reports here. I've got it propped up in my attic at my best guess for the direction of the towers and I'm happy to report that I'm getting solid signal strength on everything except KATU (which is coming in, but not as well as it seems it should) and KORS (which I don't care about anyway).

I had an old Silver Sensor that I'd used before we got Comcast (long before the DTV transition) that could never pull in a reasonable signal without acrobatics and constant movement. We're in the Concordia area of town with lots of evergreens around us and no clear view of the towers. The 4228HD seems like a very solid antenna, and I just felt like dropping by and giving thanks for the recommendations from those who'd left them.

It was amazing how much better the PQ looks vs. the mess that Comcast has devolved to.

It was amazing how much better the PQ looks vs. the mess that Comcast has devolved to.

What mess? I watch both OTA and Comcast and I can tell absolutely no difference between the two on local channels. The bit rates are not significantly different.

What mess? I watch both OTA and Comcast and I can tell absolutely no difference between the two on local channels. The bit rates are not significantly different.

It may just be that my old (tube) HDTV was doing something dumb when connected to their box via component cables (no HDMI on my set), but the picture seems much nicer OTA. I'd swapped the component cables out a couple of times, swapped the input that the cables were plugged in to, and even swapped out the box a couple of times when it died (taking all of my DVR'd shows with it).

It also may be that I've been watching TV for the last couple of months on Hulu and Netflix, so I've forgotten how great Comcast looked.

this is posted on the kslm site http://www.kslmtv.com/

Retro TV Oregon is growing…
In the coming days we will be making changes to significantly expand the Retro TV coverage area. This will require viewers to rescan channels on their Digital TV or DTV Converter Box. Look for Retro Television on channel 27.1.
then if u look at the map it says Effective March 11, 2010

Thanks for the notice, Skihoodoo. My antenna is now in the garage attic, aimed the wrong way for Salem, but the coverage maps also showed KWVT's move to Portland, still with a May target.

looks like the change in salem has been delayed due to weather
"Weather is now a problem till after weekend"
will post updates as i get them

I can now confirm that the new transmitter is in place and is up and running because i am getting a 78 percent in ALBANY from KSLM

Thanks! I can't get RTV downstairs (garage attic antenna pointing the opposite direction), but upstairs, by reversing the antenna direction, I picked up 4 subchannels (3 broadcasting RTV at the moment) and at least this morning, the Portland full power stations came in off the back end, a surprise given it's a coathanger antenna with reflector.

Well 16-2 is now AmericaOne and 16-3 is gone.

Can't seem to find anything new yet.

Anyone notice any dropouts in KATU (2.1) this morning? My signal strength was 100% but every minute or so my symbol Quality would drop to almost 0 for a second and I'd get a glitch.

Anyone else having problems with KOIN-DT 6? I lost it just in time for the final four. OUCH! My rabbit ears seem to do OK, but my new Winegard 1080 is lousy. Signal strength seems to be fine for all of the other "Skyline" towers. I live at 20th and Hawthorne. I am beginning to think it may be the elm trees.

TBeast

Channel 27 in Salem is now at full power. You had to re-scan to get it. It should come in well for everyone in Salem and nearby.

Lost Dog barks:

> Anyone notice any dropouts in KATU (2.1) this morning?
> My signal strength was 100% but every minute or so my
> symbol Quality would drop to almost 0 for a second and
> I'd get a glitch.

I didn't record anything 2010-04-05 morning, but my KATU
reception has been perfect for just over two months,
my last reception problem was on 2010-02-04.

Thunderbeast writes:

> Anyone else having problems with KOIN-DT 6? I lost it just
> in time for the final four. OUCH!

I haven't had a reception problem with KOIN since 2010-03-03.

> My rabbit ears seem to do
> OK, but my new Winegard 1080 is lousy.

The Winegard 1080 is only a 2-bay and the specs aren't that great.
I'm using the Winegard PR-8800 8-bay for KATU and KOIN. The PR-8800
is good for the lower UHF channels but my reception is marginal for
the higher channels. (The last couple months have been better than
usual.) The XG-91 yagi would be better for the higher frequency
channels like KOIN and KATU.

Both stations have sequence problems with some of the PIDs.
This is a problem with the data they are sending, not a reception
problem. Fortunately the important video and audio PIDs are fine.

KATU cleared up for me that same day. I've not had any issued except for that one morning...

Hello everyone,

I really am wondering if anyone is able to pick up telemundo or telefutura in the Portland Area.. there is a lot of information on the web about what channels these networks can be found on but none of them seem to work for me... Anyone having better luck?

Also any word if either of these networks or Univision will be going digital anytime soon?

thank you for your time.

Hello everyone,

I really am wondering if anyone is able to pick up telemundo or telefutura in the Portland Area.. there is a lot of information on the web about what channels these networks can be found on but none of them seem to work for me... Anyone having better luck?


It would help if you told us what channel(s) you were expecting them to be on. I can get Spanish programming on NTSC 47. Is that one of them?

8.2, 24.4, 47 (analog) are 3 Spanish language netwoorks I get OTA fromt he Portland Skyline towers..26.1 (turn your antenna a bit more south and K26GJ) does non-english speaking progrmming for a few hours each week also, a decent antenna set-up should pick 'em all up just fine...

What's the ETA and channel # of RTV network when it gets to Portland?

Hello everyone,

I really am wondering if anyone is able to pick up telemundo or telefutura in the Portland Area.. there is a lot of information on the web about what channels these networks can be found on but none of them seem to work for me... Anyone having better luck?

Also any word if either of these networks or Univision will be going digital anytime soon?

thank you for your time.
Telemundo (KKEI-LD) has a construction permit for a digital low power station
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=167795

Telefutura (KOXO-LD) has a construction permit for a digital low power station
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=167792

Univision (KUNP) has a digital channel 16.1 located near La Grande but has a "Special Temporary Authority" and a Modification of Construction Permit
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=81447
which I think means that they are off the air but are trying to fix something.

I am ditching my D*TV service and going terrestrial. I live about 10 miles from the towers in SE PDX. I tried a few indoor antenna's and had no luck. I went to Home Video Library and they suggested a Channel Master 2016. I haven't hooked it up yet but was curious if any of the other Portlanders here have this antenna and what your thoughts were.

I am ditching my D*TV service and going terrestrial. I live about 10 miles from the towers in SE PDX. I tried a few indoor antenna's and had no luck. I went to Home Video Library and they suggested a Channel Master 2016. I haven't hooked it up yet but was curious if any of the other Portlanders here have this antenna and what your thoughts were.
I don't have any specific experience with this particular antenna but in general, I really like Channel Master. The big plus with this particular antenna (just going by the specs) is that it also receives the high VHF which you will need for KGW, KOPB and KPTV. One thing to be aware of is that the UHF elements are directional. Depending on your location and what channels you want to watch, this may not be a big deal. Fortunately, the big stations 2, 6, 8, 10, 12, 32 and 49 are all pretty close to each other. To figure out if this is going to be an issue for you, you can check the stations you should be able to receive on either antennaweb.org or www.tvfool.com. If they are all in the same direction from you, you should be good with this antenna. Again, I haven't tried this particular one.

I tried a few indoor antenna's and had no luck.

When you say "no luck", can you elaborate? Did you not see anything at all, or was the picture freezing and pixelating? Are you sure your receiver can tune the digital stations? Did you try a CECB? The top rated ones have very good tuners.

If "a few" indoor antennas gave you no signal at all (rather than just marginal), then you only have two alternatives. First is to try a big antenna (e.g. an outdoor antenna even if mounted inside). Second is to just pay the $10 or $15 per month and go with basic cable. I struggled with OTA for years before giving up for all but a TV in an upstairs room with a nearly unobstructed view of the towers.

How do you access the Internet? If it's thru Comcast then you can get basic channels for "free", they're on the cable already. Or you can add basic cable to your account and they will knock $10 off the cost of the Internet. Once again, that makes the basic cable close to "free".

When you say "no luck", can you elaborate? Did you not see anything at all, or was the picture freezing and pixelating? Are you sure your receiver can tune the digital stations? Did you try a CECB? The top rated ones have very good tuners.

I could get signal but had to change orientation of the antenna and that is not going to work for me. I am hooking up to a TiVo Premier and I rarely watch TV in real time. With the exception of channel 2 all the stations would pixelate or just give me a black screen until I aimed it just right.

If "a few" indoor antennas gave you no signal at all (rather than just marginal), then you only have two alternatives. First is to try a big antenna (e.g. an outdoor antenna even if mounted inside). Second is to just pay the $10 or $15 per month and go with basic cable. I struggled with OTA for years before giving up for all but a TV in an upstairs room with a nearly unobstructed view of the towers.

Last night I hooked up the CM 2016 right next to my TV and the results were excellent so I will be installing in my attic tonight which is 3 floors up. Should be a great little antenna based on the results from just holding it down at ground level. All the major channels came in without any pixelating.

How do you access the Internet? If it's thru Comcast then you can get basic channels for "free", they're on the cable already. Or you can add basic cable to your account and they will knock $10 off the cost of the Internet. Once again, that makes the basic cable close to "free".

I do have Comcast Internet and I was unaware about the basic cable already being on the line. That's awesome, too bad it's not HD. I've got a small fortune tied up in my gear and want to see it at it's potential. My gear is listed in my profile. I will hook the basic cable up too so I have a last resort. Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

What's the ETA and channel # of RTV network when it gets to Portland?

AFIK, no change in status. KWVT's move to Portland real frequency 49, still has a May 2010 target. KWVT 17.1 will transmit its sister stations, including KSLM 27.1, the RTV channel.

I do have Comcast Internet and I was unaware about the basic cable already being on the line. That's awesome, too bad it's not HD.

But it is in HD.

Check out the local Comcast thread. There's a guy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18389459#post18389459) who has put together a file showing what channel to tune. E.g. looking at his file, if you want KATU in HD, you must tune QAM cable channel 91-2.

But it is in HD.

Check out the local Comcast thread. There's a guy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18389459#post18389459) who has put together a file showing what channel to tune. E.g. looking at his file, if you want KATU in HD, you must tune QAM cable channel 91-2.
Phantom Gremlin is correct. If you have Comcast internet, split the signal with a splitter. One output goes to your Comcast cable modem. The other output goes to your QAM tuner. You should be able to pick up all of the unencrypted channels. Most importantly, this includes ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS, CW, My Network TV and ION in HD. One slight correction to the above. KATU in HD is sent on physical channel 91-2 but it gets remapped to 2-1. So look for KATU in HD on 2-1.

Pro for going the comcast route

You don't have to futz with an antenna. This could be a huge plus depending on your location. Or setting up an antenna could be very easy.
In addition to the broadcast channels, you get WGN, Discovery, and all the Public/Educational/Government/Shopping/Religious channels you might want.

Cons for going the comcast route

Even with the "bundle" discount when you order limited basic with your Comcast internet, it works out to about $10 extra/month or $120/year. But I don't think that Comcast puts on a filter to ensure that you aren't getting the QAM channels if you aren't subscribing to limited basic.
You will need a QAM tuner.
You miss out on some broadcast channels that Comcast doesn't carry: two ION subchannels and four TBN subchannels.
Without a cable card, DTA or a cable box, you are limited to limited basic.

Hi all, i hope i'm in the correct thread. We recently moved to McMinnville, OR and i am wanting to try and get OTA channels for our new house (we were previously successful in the Seattle area with OTA). we had to leave our antenna behind in WA so i need recommendations on antennas for our new location. i've checked antenna web and it looks like all the channels save one are at 30-32 degrees but i don't see abc listed... bummer.

i need a violet type of antennta which i believe equates to a Large Directional Antenna and will require an amplifier. any suggestions as to specific antennas i should look for? any tips?

and of course we're on a buget so less expensive is better, but i know you kind of get what you pay for.

thanks,
Anne-Marie

Hi all, i hope i'm in the correct thread. We recently moved to McMinnville, OR and i am wanting to try and get OTA channels for our new house (we were previously successful in the Seattle area with OTA). we had to leave our antenna behind in WA so i need recommendations on antennas for our new location. i've checked antenna web and it looks like all the channels save one are at 30-32 degrees but i don't see abc listed... bummer.

i need a violet type of antennta which i believe equates to a Large Directional Antenna and will require an amplifier. any suggestions as to specific antennas i should look for? any tips?

and of course we're on a buget so less expensive is better, but i know you kind of get what you pay for.

thanks,
Anne-Marie

Give http://www.tvfool.com/ a try rather than antenna web. From a generic McMinnville location all the major stations (including ABC (KATU)) can be found. It appears you'll need to mount the antenna outdoors.

Others can give you a better recommendation than me but whatever you get it needs to be both UHF and VHF-high.

In some of the other forums you could even get some advice on building one but I'm sure for $50 or so if you find a deal online you'll get one that does everything you need.

Give http://www.tvfool.com/ a try rather than antenna web. From a generic McMinnville location all the major stations (including ABC (KATU)) can be found. It appears you'll need to mount the antenna outdoors.

Others can give you a better recommendation than me but whatever you get it needs to be both UHF and VHF-high.

In some of the other forums you could even get some advice on building one but I'm sure for $50 or so if you find a deal online you'll get one that does everything you need.

thanks. i'll look at tv web. our current covenant in the neighborhood says we can't have an antenna mounted that is larger than 2'x2' out doors but the house 2 doors has a large antenna at the front of the house and there isn't really a homeowners association to complain to. all that said we hope to put it outside but might have to door it indoors. we also don't appear to have any major blocking buildings or trees around.

here's the link from tv fool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dcd72001482bef1
if i'm reading it right we might be ok getting the local channels (they appear to be coded yellow?) i want with an attic mounted antenna? most channels are about 30 miles away or so.

looed at the CM4228HD is that kind of what i'd need? would the CM2016 maybe work? or not be strong enough? do i really need a pre-amp.

on a side note, the house has a small dish from previous owners which i assume was for maybe comcast cable. there's no way to make use of that without paying something, right?

thanks. i'll look at tv web. our current covenant in the neighborhood says we can't have an antenna mounted that is larger than 2'x2' out doors but the house 2 doors has a large antenna at the front of the house and there isn't really a homeowners association to complain to. all that said we hope to put it outside but might have to door it indoors. we also don't appear to have any major blocking buildings or trees around.

here's the link from tv fool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dcd72001482bef1
if i'm reading it right we might be ok getting the local channels (they appear to be coded yellow?) i want with an attic mounted antenna? most channels are about 30 miles away or so.

looed at the CM4228HD is that kind of what i'd need? would the CM2016 maybe work? or not be strong enough? do i really need a pre-amp.

on a side note, the house has a small dish from previous owners which i assume was for maybe comcast cable. there's no way to make use of that without paying something, right?

Homeowners associations are prohibited by law from creating rules that restrict installation of an outdoor TV antenna. Basically, if your mast is less than 12', you're good to go.

Info on the FCC site: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Homeowners associations are prohibited by law from creating rules that restrict installation of an outdoor TV antenna. Basically, if your mast is less than 12', you're good to go.

Info on the FCC site: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

good to know. thank you!

tonight there is spanish broadcasting on 8.3 that is the same as 8.2...perhaps meaning we are about to get an added channel by KGW on 8.3 ? I'd like an all weather channel back myself, seems every other metro area in US I've been has one or two..

Any update on RTV kickoff in PDX area? What channel will it be on?

anyone know where I can find telemundo in the portland area... If I remember correctly it was on ch. 38 analog, but I haven't been seeing it for the past couple months! They have a digital application in the works, but I don't believe it is up yet.

tonight there is spanish broadcasting on 8.3 that is the same as 8.2...perhaps meaning we are about to get an added channel by KGW on 8.3 ? I'd like an all weather channel back myself, seems every other metro area in US I've been has one or two..

Had a look with TSReader.
8-1 is getting 13.8 MBps
8-2 is getting between 1.8-2.1 MBps
8-3 is getting between 1.8-2.1 MBps

Can't wait to see what they'll put up.

Interesting that the allocation is the same for 8.2 and 8.3. To my eye, it looks considerably better on 8.2 than 8.3. My Zinwell Zat can't hold the signals for more than 2 seconds, it goes zzzzt and jumps all the way back to 6.1.

When KGW changed 8.2 to Estrella, they said when they got their new equipment, they'd be adding the Weather back in, so I expect that's what's coming on 8.3.

"Estrella replaces the KGW Weather Channel that currently airs on 8.2. But don't despair, weather watchers, Ansley says it is their intention to add an additional subchannel on 8.3 featuring 24/7 weather, as well as news and information, "as soon as it's technically possible."

http://oregonmediacentral.com/2009/08/kgw-to-launch-spanish-subchannel-plans-247-news-weather

With KGW going to a 8.3 weather (and hopefully news info also) subchannel, what's UP w/ KOIN? No "sister station" nor a subchannel??

What will be RTV OTA channel in PDX area? Projected date?

any chance of MORE sub channel networks, perhaps for KOIN or Fox/PDX? Or another sub for Channle 16? They started w/ 4 but, are down to HSN and A1 only left...no loss of love for JTV though BVM did have an hour or two a week of some reasonable programming when all the others didn't? (What happened to BVM subchannel BTW??)

Info? rumors? ....

here is what i have gotten for how this digital mux will be for ch 8
8.1 kgw programing
8.2 weather/maybe news
8.3 Estrella

anyone know where I can find telemundo in the portland area... If I remember correctly it was on ch. 38 analog, but I haven't been seeing it for the past couple months! They have a digital application in the works, but I don't believe it is up yet.
There is also the option of getting limited basic with Comcast during the World Cup. It won't be in HD but I don't think Comcast carries Telemundo HD in this area anyway. Limited basic includes Telemundo.

With KGW going to a 8.3 weather (and hopefully news info also) subchannel, what's UP w/ KOIN? No "sister station" nor a subchannel??

What will be RTV OTA channel in PDX area? Projected date?

any chance of MORE sub channel networks, perhaps for KOIN or Fox/PDX? Or another sub for Channle 16? They started w/ 4 but, are down to HSN and A1 only left...no loss of love for JTV though BVM did have an hour or two a week of some reasonable programming when all the others didn't? (What happened to BVM subchannel BTW??)

Info? rumors? ....

I know KPTV/KPDX was suppose to get the ".2 Network" but that has died off pretty much. I wish News Corp would do something like make FX available for OTA on FOX affiliates but that is just dreaming.

There is also the option of getting limited basic with Comcast during the World Cup. It won't be in HD but I don't think Comcast carries Telemundo HD in this area anyway. Limited basic includes Telemundo.

I wonder who his ISP is. If it's Comcast, he already has limited basic. But it's "unofficial". Kinda like when Homer pays an installer for an illegal hookup, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_vs._Lisa_and_the_8th_Commandment) and even gets a pamphlet titled "So You've Decided To Steal Cable". :)

Actually, the combined bill for Limited Basic + Internet is actually less expensive than Internet alone.

When I signed up, Internet service was $10 less expensive if you had any other Comcast service, and the limited basic was only $8.

So...$42+8 instead of $52. That was several years and several prices ago, but I think that is still true in principal.

Is anyone seeing signals on channels 28, 34, or 44?

- Trip

I can't see them.

KORS has been down to a signal of 10-15 for me since afternoon yesterday, vie the "noraml" strength of 45-low 50's....Anybody in the know? Perhaps some of the work they promised LAST year is coming forth? (increased sig strength, moving the x mitter higher, etc., etc.,)

It's mid May, any sign of NEW stations for PDX area, like RTV? If/when what channel will rTV broadcast on...

still no KORS pic, signal is there, about a 12~ at he monent for me just into Camas, by /in Lacamas Meadows just south of Lacamas Lake...

double post... see below

Trip, Ch 28.x and 44.x were on air when I scanned tonight. For both of them:

.1 = AmOne
.2 = HSN
.3 = TEST

28 signal is ok, but 44 is weak, is it in Newberg? If so, it's doing pretty well to be picking it up sideways and rear. I have a kid home for the weekend, or I'd go try upstairs. At the moment that antenna is out in the hall, aimed to pull in RTN from Salem until CH 49 comes on the air. They did say May...

16, 34 and 44 are too weak to decode. I have signal on the Zenith but it's not enough to watch
28 is great tonight.

I'll have a look with TSReader later.

16, 34 and 44 are too weak to decode. I have signal on the Zenith but it's not enough to watch
28 is great tonight.

I'll have a look with TSReader later.

Thanks; please do. I'd be most grateful if you could send me whatever you can receive from them. :)

All three should be coming from the same antenna on the same tower at the same power level. Interesting that all three seem to be received differently.

Does anyone know what programming is on the "TEST" signal?

- Trip

I'm seeing AmOne video but no audio on 28-3

EDIT: Still could not lock 16, 34 or 44 even with a single split to one PC tuner
The Zenith showed above the red line for those 3 but wouldn't show anything.

Uploaded the TSReader export for 28 to the same place as before, Trip.

28-3 has audio being sent but nothing is coming out of the Zenith.

A recording came up so I had to quit for the night.

Er, uploaded where? Last time, you e-mailed them as attachments. You may PM the link if you wish.

- Trip

Same tower? Yeah, big difference in how received. Same content on 28.x vs 44.x, but my Zat meter showed:

Ch 28: 50% intensity, 90% quality
Ch 44: 30% intensity, 31% quality


The .3 "test" was showing the .1 "AmOne" picture, but they had no audio.

If this is useful for anything, for both Ch 28 and 44, my Zat screen shows VID PID/ AUD PID / PCR PID, as follows:


.1 49 / 51 / 49
.2 65 / 67 / 65
.3 81 / 83 / 81

Bah, my Sony TV has a really sensitive OTA tuner, but doesn't seem to have any sort of signal strength display. Channel 44 was the worst for me, but still quite watchable, some pixelation about 2x a minute. I have a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.

Looks like same content on all of 28, 34, 44.

I don't know what is on the .3 channels, the Sony says for all of them "the signal cannot be decoded". That's not the same as no signal, if I tune .4 the TV says "no signal".

All three should be coming from the same antenna on the same tower at the same power level. Interesting that all three seem to be received differently.

Who can know WTF is going on with OTA these days; too many levels of indirection hiding true frequencies from users.

But if 28, 34, 44 really correspond to traditional UHF frequencies, then it's quite easy to believe that 44 would be the worst, since (I think?) UHF propagation gets worse with increasing frequency. Also, according to hdtvprimer.com my Silver Sensor antenna has some minor gain differences at different frequencies.

What's also weird is that none of these channels have the information (is it called PSIP?) that causes the TV to identify the name of the channel. E.g. KATU identifies itself with something like "KATU-DT".

ok, channels 16 (KORS) are gone on my rescan, ...I get a music channel w/ audio and video on 28-1 (A1?) , HSN on 28.2 and a same music video w/o audio on 28.3. Is this KORS? The sig strength is same as Ch 16's used to be, typical 40's w/ loss in "heat or storm" but, watchable otherwise seemingly ok,..

station ID now, it's "watch tv" on 28-1 so must be America One network (?) on 28-1 w/ HSN on 28.2. What will be 28.3? Why the move? Is RTV supposed to be one of these or others?. No signal read over here in CAmas (west - Lacamas meadows) on my Weingard attic 1080 antenna for ch 44..

So the story? "confused in Camas"?

Should I leave my antenna "as is" KORS was a tough pick up and w/ some sig sacrifice on KPDX I can get the (former anyway) KORS

Phantom, 28.3 and 44.3 disappeared this afternoon, so maybe they are working on the audio. But they had picture yesterday and this morning.

They date was June 2056 or something like that, and the time was off, too. And of course, no program info yet.

no sig at all on 44.x over here, is the channel 28.x the old KORS? (In other words, don't "move" the antenna)? thx....prehaps the 28.3 will be RTV?? thought...

These LPs are getting confusing.

So, 28 KOXI, 34 KKEI, 44 KOXO are broadcasting from the same location, with identical programming content? Since I can't get 34 at all, and 44 is weak, maybe it isn't as loony as it sounds. Except... AmericaOne will be on 7 stations (KOXI, KKEI, KOXO, KSLM, KWVT, KPWC, KORS)? And HSN will be on 4 stations (KOXI, KKEI, KOXO, KORS)? :rolleyes:

Trip, your RabbitEars shows KSLM as virtual 17.2, but it changed to virtual 27.1, and KPWC 17.3 changed to virtual 5.1. The KSLM move was confusing, since the two 'coming soon' stations weren't labeled, and both had KSLM's content as a placeholder. I don't get 17.4 now. You have that one listed as KDLN-DT, but the website NWTV.us, which seems to be the combined stations of Mattson/Lewetag, listed 17.4 as KODT-LP, a Salt Creek translator on 14 analog. AND... sometime in the last couple months, NWTV yanked the KODT tag and the 'coming soon' 17.4 label. So it appears to be dead. But after DS leaves today, I'll rescan to see if I find 17.90 audio. I didn't get that one when I scanned two months ago.

Jeff, KORS got FCC approval last month to increase power back to 15kW on RF16. The only unique content KORS has now is the Bohemian station. If you don't have the link bookmarked, Trip's Rabbit Ears site usually has the scoop on station changes. You can click on a station call letter, or click on "expand all" to see substation detail for all channels. There's a lot more detail, and more links, when you click on "Technical Data and Screencaps" for the station you want to see. See link below... :) And check out KWVT, when it moves to Portland RF49, supposedly later this month, it will transmit the RTV station you want (KSLM).

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=30

I had been in touch with the owner of KWVT/KSLM and asked for confirmation of the mapping changes after they moved up to 27, but he never answered me. I'll make the correction now.

I have to imagine the four signal simulcast (KORS, KOXO, KKEI, and KOXI) is temporary until they get some more gear and/or are satisfied that testing is complete.

- Trip

These LPs are getting confusing.

So, 28 KOXI, 34 KKEI, 44 KOXO are broadcasting from the same location, with identical programming content? Since I can't get 34 at all, and 44 is weak, maybe it isn't as loony as it sounds. Except... AmericaOne will be on 7 stations (KOXI, KKEI, KOXO, KSLM, KWVT, KPWC, KORS)? And HSN will be on 4 stations (KOXI, KKEI, KOXO, KORS)? :rolleyes:


Jeff, KORS got FCC approval last month to increase power back to 15kW on RF16. The only unique content KORS has now is the Bohemian station. If you don't have the link bookmarked, Trip's Rabbit Ears site usually has the scoop on station changes. You can click on a station call letter, or click on "expand all" to see substation detail for all channels. There's a lot more detail, and more links, when you click on "Technical Data and Screencaps" for the station you want to see. See link below... :) And check out KWVT, when it moves to Portland RF49, supposedly later this month, it will transmit the RTV station you want (KSLM).

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=30

Hmmm, BVM 16-2 was "gone" about a month ago on 16-2 as A1 went to 16-2 and HSN was 16-1. I get NO signal anymore on the 16's, looks like they "moved" to the 28's (?) The Camas station used to be analog ch 20 but, hardly receivable, though I'm IN Camas, seemed it was on backside of antenna in the hills somewhere. Is it still braodcasting? Is KORS OR KOXI channel 28? I'm still getting (all day today)a video feed but, no audio on 28-3 What will 28-3 be?? as A1 is on 28-1 and HSN 28-2??

Strange to me....

Jeff, KOXI is 28. KORS is still 16 and transmitting, but it was weak, and I had to offset my antenna to minimize multipath. I got HSN on 16.1 and A1 on 16.2 today, and that was all.

28.3, 34.3, and 44.3 are labeled "test," so it's anybody's guess what will go there. Or as Trip said, what's on the new stations may be temporary. They sure are doing this quietly...

Can anybody get KSLM's 17.90 Calgary audio? When I rescanned, I got 27.1 and 17.1, but 5.1 was no longer there (which may be a good sign, they may be close to adding KPWC) and I've never gotten 17.90 audio. Is it really there?

Upstairs, CH 28 is still the best of the new three frequencies. But 34 came in ok (!) while 44 was a frozen mosaic, although the Zenith 901 let me manually add it.

17-90 was definitely there at one time, even if it isn't now. It was in the TSReader data I was sent.

http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/or-pdx/129164-0_0.htm

- Trip

Thanks, Trip. Well, reading is part of my problem, not that it influences the success of finding the subchannel. But I see that it's Calvary rather than Calgary; I was thinking Canadian station, as in audio reporting of hockey/soccer matches, haha. KAJC is a local Salem Christian (Calvary Chapel) FM station, frequency 90.1, so at least that explains the xx.90 designation. I didn't see any mention of the audio on the KSLM web page, but they were focused entirely on RTV there.

But come to think of it, I do not listen to OBP radio on TV, not even the digital music, which I can't get on the radio. I'm certainly not going to fuss with sticking the antenna out in the hall, just to get local radio.

While I was googling for news on the KWVT Portland move, I ran into a Facebook page with these updates:

[3/29/2010] Albany may be on air before Portland. One of the other Portland stations has stirred some legal issues as a result of their filing bankruptcy, resulting in the holding up of our lease at Skyline tower. Keep your fingers crossed! Albany :) Portland :(

[5/11/2010] Albany, Corvallis, Lebanon... I visited the Peterson Butte tower site yesterday. We are hoping to have channel 38 on air in about a month. We will have the remaining equipment by the end of this week, and are now just waiting for the paperwork to sign the lease.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/KWVT-Television/109958417529

5/18 My Toshiba Regza Tv and Weingard 1080 antennta (attic mount) is now ALSO seeing channels on 34-1,2,3. Channels 28-1,2,3 are also about 20%~ stronger signal after the weekend. A NICE 57-59 signal strength w/ peaks over 60 (Old KORS ch's 16-x for example was always 40's w/ maybe a low 50's peak and dropouts w/ heat or very incliment weather always happened) . Will wait to reorient as antenna is in a very small "sweet spot" that gave me best KORS reception - and that may be same orient as ch 28, 34 (??) etc., The antenna direction means a signal loss on KPDX 49-1 but, droupouts are rare there (very heavy rain/wind only) and no signal from K26GJ since the antenna is very westerly oriented, ...my guess is to one of the skyline towers about 16 miles away but, not quite "line of sight" as a few hills block visual, 2 blocks away, they can be seen on a clear day.

So, who's who on the channels? KORS is "gone" over here no signal deteced on Ch 16, KOXI appears on ch 28 as "Watch TV", same programming is on ch 34's (?)

GUESS THE QUESTION is: WHAT will be the programming content on 28-3 and 34-3? And will KORS return to full power w/ different programming? (as BVM was gone and 16-1,2 ALSO were an A1 network and HSN broadcast...A1&HSN, all over!??)

Watch tv tel # is 800-333-xxxx but, can't find any website clues either....

You can expect more than the dot3 to change. Wiki shows that the stations are owned by WatchTV, and affiliated as follows:

DTV 28 KOXI AmericaOne
DTV 34 KKEI Telemundo
DTV 44 KOXO TeleFutura


KORS refiled with the FCC two days ago. The correspondence file is stuffed. This looks like one FCC thing after another. KORS had already filed like 8 extensions because the FCC never acted on the Class A application from years ago. When KSLM cried 'interference' last year, the FCC wrote a really long letter letting KSLM move to 27 to resolve the interference, but left KORS' application hanging. In Feb, the FCC hit KORS with another interference charge (K17CV), which was immediately resolved, but then the FCC brought up KSLM interference, a week or two before KSLM moved to Ch 27! Beaurocracy. :mad:

You can expect more than the dot3 to change. Wiki shows that the stations are owned by WatchTV, and affiliated as follows:

DTV 28 KOXI AmericaOne
DTV 34 KKEI Telemundo
DTV 44 KOXO TeleFutura


KORS refiled with the FCC two days ago. The correspondence file is stuffed. This looks like one FCC thing after another. KORS had already filed like 8 extensions because the FCC never acted on the Class A application from years ago. When KSLM cried 'interference' last year, the FCC wrote a really long letter letting KSLM move to 27 to resolve the interference, but left KORS' application hanging. In Feb, the FCC hit KORS with another interference charge (K17CV), which was immediately resolved, but then the FCC brought up KSLM interference, a week or two before KSLM moved to Ch 27! Beaurocracy. :mad:

your quote confuses me, will the .3 stations be the programming you mentioned above? The same for each or different for all? Is KORS actually "on" btw, signal is gone over here 16miles from tower. Whas up w/ 8.2 and 8.3, both being the same for weeks?

confused in Camas...

Jeff, I am taking a cue from Trip's comment. The 3 new stations are WatchTV owned, but they have different affiliations. Testing with the same content gives them the advantage of a direct comparison, so that makes sense. Sure beats the 10 minute test loop KORS (??) played for days and days. After testing I'd expect KKEI to have Telemundo content, and KOXO to have Telefutura content. And I'd expect that content to take the dot1 slot, not that it matters, since the line between virtual and physical channels is blurred. I'd expect the dot2 and dot3 slots to be other Spanish content.

Unless it extends audience reach, what would be the point in duplicating the content of a sister station transmitting from the same location? So I expect them to have different content. But if there is a spare subchannel, it's likely that somebody will continue to carry HSN until KORS is back at 15kW. That just makes sense from an audience reach standpoint, I haven't seen any official news, and don't expect to.

I assume KGW is just being prudent, testing early, in case they had technical difficulties. One day we'll wake up and see the change.

Thanks! That seems prudent and I imagine KOXI (ch 28-x) stays with AMOne and HSN on .2? But, the ?? will be when/if KORS (ch 16-x) returns, WHY duplicate KOXI content (A1 and HSN)...would retro TV be on of the subs somewhere though? Or another New channel (for Portland market from Skyine tower)?.

Much thanx, time to rescan and delete the ones Im don't watch, which is MORE than 1/2 now available!

Jeff:

And check out KWVT, when it moves to Portland RF49, supposedly later this month, it will transmit the RTV station you want (KSLM).

- Trip

later this month is almost here, what channel will it be on, (49 is KPDX)?

KWVT is virtual 17.1, KSLM (RTV station) is virtual 27.1. Both will transmit on real frequency 49 in Portland.

But there may be a delay from the original May target. See post #7900.

[KPDX is virtual channel 49.1, but transmits on RF30.]

34 and 44 are now on par with 28 for me.
All three are roughly above half on the Zenith meter.

Too bad it's the same 3 channels right now.
Would be a great addition to the Portland OTA channel line-up to see 4 more channels

Hey Guys,

I am thinking of getting an antenna and dropping verizon finally.

I am looking at Antennas Direct - ClearStream 2 or the much cheaper Winegard HD-1080.

I live in Hillsboro and I am in a 3 story Townhouse. I plan on installing in the attic or on the third floor. I am most interested in ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.

Any suggestions? I tried to make it through the 265 pages, but I do have a job to do ;-)

Thanks for any input!

-Budd

Hey Guys,

I am thinking of getting an antenna and dropping verizon finally.

I am looking at Antennas Direct - ClearStream 2 or the much cheaper Winegard HD-1080.

I live in Hillsboro and I am in a 3 story Townhouse. I plan on installing in the attic or on the third floor. I am most interested in ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.

Any suggestions? I tried to make it through the 265 pages, but I do have a job to do ;-)

Thanks for any input!

-Budd

The Clearstream 2 is UHF so you'll miss several stations that are VHF-high (NBC, PBS, Fox I think). Learning from experience, there are much better options than the HD-1080. If you are a DIY type person check out the homemade antenna that I talked about earlier in this thread.

Do you have a photo of the bowtie antenna? The wires themselves seem easy enough, but I am not 100% on how you attach the styrofoam.

Thanks,
Budd

Channels: 28-1,2,3 and 34-1,2,3 have been showing a signal but, NO pic or audio last 5~ days..? Problems?? also, a scan, several rescans and still NO KORS (16-1,2) signal detected AT all, been almost a couple weeks now..I haven't been able to get the ch 44-1,2,3 signal since I'm "east" over here but, assume it is also not showing any video/audio as ch 28 and 34 haven't been? So, any info, whas up?

There are many sites with info on these antenna. One of the best is at:

http://current.org/ptv/ptv0821make.pdf

Another version with reflector is at:

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

And I use one of these in my attic and it performs as well as any other antenna I have tried, including some 9 foot Corner Yagi and amplified antennas.

Do you have a photo of the bowtie antenna? The wires themselves seem easy enough, but I am not 100% on how you attach the styrofoam.

Thanks,
Budd

Channels: 28-1,2,3 and 34-1,2,3 have been showing a signal but, NO pic or audio last 5~ days..? Problems?? also, a scan, several rescans and still NO KORS (16-1,2) signal detected AT all, been almost a couple weeks now..I haven't been able to get the ch 44-1,2,3 signal since I'm "east" over here but, assume it is also not showing any video/audio as ch 28 and 34 haven't been? So, any info, whas up?

It's the same situation less than five miles LOS from the tower.

I've been routinely recording some obscure movies and westerns (before and after the transition from 16.3 to 28.1) with my Philips 3576, editing out commercials and then high-speed dubbing the "keepers" to DVDs. Perhaps I'll stop recording until I hear that Watch TV programming has come back.

Just before Watch TV cut off the programming America One twice ran Between Fighting Men (1932) where the 5/21 screening had the World Wide Pictures "live-action logo," a real hoot from the Pre-Code era! The other screening cut the live-action logo portion but retained the somewhat tamer illustration with similar content.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88HmoDRkhhg

Channels: 28-1,2,3 and 34-1,2,3 have been showing a signal but, NO pic or audio last 5~ days..? Problems?? also, a scan, several rescans and still NO KORS (16-1,2) signal detected AT all, been almost a couple weeks now..I haven't been able to get the ch 44-1,2,3 signal since I'm "east" over here but, assume it is also not showing any video/audio as ch 28 and 34 haven't been? So, any info, whas up?

I don't think anyone at Watch TV is actually watching that channels. They must be have really extreme technical difficulty or they just don't give a hoot.

Thanks AlanP.

The PDF did not state to use a board or otherwise to stand off the bowties. Now I get it and it makes a lot more sense.

Thanks!

One last question (noobs always have those ;-) )

The plans do not show the lines crossed and insulated like the pictures AlanP shared. Is that simply a result of 4 bow tie sections? I am also assuming the transformer connects to both middle sections.

Thanks.

What happened to channel 33 (calling themselves KRCW-TV this week)
this morning, about 1am? Signal disappeared completely.

What happened to channel 33 (calling themselves KRCW-TV this week)
this morning, about 1am? Signal disappeared completely.


KRCW was done till about 6:30ish this morning

There are many sites with info on these antenna. One of the best is at:

http://current.org/ptv/ptv0821make.pdf

Another version with reflector is at:

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

And I use one of these in my attic and it performs as well as any other antenna I have tried, including some 9 foot Corner Yagi and amplified antennas.

Thanks AlanP.

The PDF did not state to use a board or otherwise to stand off the bowties. Now I get it and it makes a lot more sense.

Thanks! Two problems with the plans linked above...
They specify dimensions optimized for the upper UHF band only. Here in the Portland area, 3 of our best HD channels are broadcast on VHF-Hi.
Screwing the antenna elements into wood can reduce antenna gain quite dramatically. It is important to use a really good insulator to space the whiskers and phase lines away from the wood, at exactly the right distances from each other.
The plans I posted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17904180#post17904180) were designed by antenna enthusiasts in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798265), and specify the best dimensions for the Portland/Vancouver area.

Styrofoam is the one material that approximates the density of air most closely, and therefore causes the least disruption to the signal. There is no need to space the elements away from the Styrofoam. Use a glue-gun to glue the whiskers directly to the Styrofoam, in the exact locations specified in the plans - one blob dead-center of each whisker. This position is a voltage null (with respect to the antenna's center frequency) and therefore causes the least disruption to the signal again.

Obviously, this plan is for a simple 2-bay bowtie. A 4-bay version nets another 10% improvement, but is trickier to build. I can post plans if anyone is interested. Properly placed, my 4-bay gets a rock-solid signal in the most horrible conditions. The 2-bay is a very close second, easily beating all of the commercially-available indoor antennas that I've tried.

Note that this is an indoor/attic antenna only - Styrofoam will break up in the slightest wind. Outdoor versions can be built with the same dimensions, but PVC pipe is used instead of styrofoam.

Gary

One last question (noobs always have those ;-) )

The plans do not show the lines crossed and insulated like the pictures AlanP shared. Is that simply a result of 4 bow tie sections? I am also assuming the transformer connects to both middle sections.

Thanks.Yes, the 4-bay has twisted phase lines. At the twists, the phase lines should be kept exactly 1.25" apart (NOT insulated) to maintain the ideal 300ohm impedance. This contributes to the trickiness of the construction. If you live anywhere in sight of the transmission towers, you will not need anything more than the 2-bay.

With a decent digital tuner, a reflector is not required in our area, unless you have severe dynamic multipath issues (from traffic, trees, etc). My signal comes over the top of two hills, through trees and freeway traffic. I do not use a reflector. The size of a reflector, and its distance away from the elements is critical.

Gary

Styrofoam is the one material that approximates the density of air most closely, and therefore causes the least disruption to the signal. There is no need to space the elements away from the Styrofoam.

Offhand, do you know how much clearance is needed from the front and the back of this antenna to something solid (such as a wall, or a picture)? The thread you link to might have discussed the issue, but it's about 4000 posts long.

Suspending a sheet of Styrofoam in the middle of a room wouldn't have a high WAF. So perhaps it could be hung flush against a wall. Ideally the uglier wire side (toward the towers) would be against the drywall, and a picture could cover the foam from the room side. What do you think?

Bowties tend to have poorer performance in multipath situations than Yagi antennas. Is that the consensus on the thread you linked to? When I played around with various indoor antennas (before giving up and paying Comcast) it wasn't signal strength that was my problem, it was multipath.

Offhand, do you know how much clearance is needed from the front and the back of this antenna to something solid (such as a wall, or a picture)? The thread you link to might have discussed the issue, but it's about 4000 posts long.

Suspending a sheet of Styrofoam in the middle of a room wouldn't have a high WAF. So perhaps it could be hung flush against a wall. Ideally the uglier wire side (toward the towers) would be against the drywall, and a picture could cover the foam from the room side. What do you think? LOL. :D

Placement is everything. If you have multipath issues, you'll have to experiment. Just a few inches this way or that, can make a difference. Obviously, you have to keep it out of the way of metal objects that could block, bounce, or disrupt the signal. I have my two-bay on a kitchen counter, leaning against a wall exactly as you described - with the elements against the drywall, and a 12x18" photograph glued to the styrofoam. It is tilted slightly upward (another significant signal benefit). Another thing to consider, is that the balun and coax needs to be routed away from the elements. Tilting the Styrofoam allows some room for this.

My 4-bay is strung up in the attic, with the optimal angles and position. Even with 50ft of coax, the signal is phenomenal.

Bowties tend to have poorer performance in multipath situations than Yagi antennas. Is that the consensus on the thread you linked to? When I played around with various indoor antennas (before giving up and paying Comcast) it wasn't signal strength that was my problem, it was multipath. With digital TV, multipath is not much of a problem. A good tuner can pick out the strongest signal. HOWEVER, if that multipath is dynamic (moving - due to traffic or swaying trees), the tuner will struggle to keep a lock, and will tend to hop from one signal to the next, causing dropouts.

Yagis are considered excellent for multipath, but they are extremely directional, and as a result, may not be too good with dynamic multipath [EDIT: dynamic multipath scatter, caused by obstructions in the direct signal path, like traffic/trees]. They may need directional adjustments for each channel (with a rotator), and they have a pretty limited bandwidth, working strongly on some channels, and not on others. The bowties are less directional, are more immune to dynamic multipath, and have awesome bandwidth when built with the correct dimensions.

I have a bad multipath situation too. My analog signals have 5 or 6 strong ghosts, as well as dynamic multipath that can create an unwatchable mess. But my digital channels are perfect when using the 2-bay, and especially the 4-bay, as long as they are mounted in the right location. Other antenna types cause dropouts on many channels.

A reflector can also help with multipath, because it can block unwanted signals coming from behind the antenna, bounced off hills, buildings, etc. BUT, if you have no line-of-site to the towers, a bounced signal can sometimes be the strongest signal, so you might not want to block it. Just experiment, and pick the best solution for your location.

Gary

I'll echo (or multipath?) what GSB said. It was the design he just posted that I use and it's in my attic giving me all the VHF-high at near 100% signal strength.

I hot glued it to the styrofoam....

I did print up the plans from your post GSB. Thanks for clarifying on the rest!

If I welded the joints together there should be no adverse affects correct?

> Yagis are considered excellent for multipath, but they are
> extremely directional, and as a result, may not be too good
> with dynamic multipath.

Huh? The more directional an antenna is, the less multipath
it will pick up, static or dynamic. This is a major advantage.
A more directional antenna also provides more signal strength.
and picks up less interference.

The only disadvantage to a directional antenna is if you want
to pick up signals from towers in different directions.
Fortunately the Portland towers are relatively close together.
I'm less than 5 miles from the towers and the highest gain
antennas sold cover them easily.

> The bowties are less directional,

The 8-bay bowties have about the same gain as the best Yagis,
and thus are about as directional. The pattern is different,
so one or the other may perform better at a specific location,
depending on what direction the interference or multipath is
coming from. If you want to put the antennas in a cramped attic,
one may fit better than the other depending on your attic construction.

I have the YA-1713 and PR-8800 in my attic. I have more VHF-HI
signal strength than I need (this is a good thing), but the UHF
is just squeaking by (driving 6 tuners). I would probably be better
off with a XG-91, which has more gain at the higher frequencies.

Huh? The more directional an antenna is, the less multipath it will pick up, static or dynamic. This is a major advantage. A more directional antenna also provides more signal strength.
and picks up less interference. To clarify... I'm not referring to dynamic multipath coming from the sides or the rear. I'm refering to multipath caused by obstructions in the direct signal path (traffic/trees).

The multipath scatter caused by trees can be thought of as ripples passing through a diffraction grating. Peaks and nulls form on the other side, due to constructive and destructive interference. A directional antenna can be positioned to take advantage of a peak. But if the trees start swaying, the peaks and nulls shift (dynamic multipath), and the antenna sees the signal strength varying wildly enough to disrupt a digital tuner.

I have an old log periodic antenna with excellent gain, but atrocious performance in the situation described above. The 2-bay and the 4-bay bowties have a broader reception pattern, without the dramatic lobes, and therefore, they have no trouble at all.

The 8-bay bowties have about the same gain as the best Yagis, and thus are about as directional. The pattern is different, so one or the other may perform better at a specific location, depending on what direction the interference or multipath is coming from. True, their reception patterns are considerably different.

Gary

Thanks to all that helped me and answered my questions (GSB, AlanP and Lost Dog)

One of many reasons I have always loved this forum!!!

The antenna works awesome and I think I shelled out $10-$12 and only because I was lazy and went to Ratshack and HomeDepot for parts. I fuse welded the 6awg pieces to ease the connection and ensure a solid connectivity. I found using a torch to heat the wires before applying solder greatly improved the solder adhering to the pieces due to the large amount of heat sink.

My TV's see 34 digital and 2 analog channels with only a few with bad reception (probably the two analog and some longer distance ones).

Thanks again and you guys are awesome.

-Budd

Thanks to all that helped me and answered my questions (GSB, AlanP and Lost Dog)

One of many reasons I have always loved this forum!!!

The antenna works awesome and I think I shelled out $10-$12 and only because I was lazy and went to Ratshack and HomeDepot for parts. I fuse welded the 6awg pieces to ease the connection and ensure a solid connectivity. I found using a torch to heat the wires before applying solder greatly improved the solder adhering to the pieces due to the large amount of heat sink.

My TV's see 34 digital and 2 analog channels with only a few with bad reception (probably the two analog and some longer distance ones).

Thanks again and you guys are awesome.

-Budd

Excellent!!!! Good to hear! Usually as long as you can get the major networks you're good to go...

Well done, Budd!

Gary

i know this is the OTA forum but wanted to post something that was on my comcast bill because i have confirmed this channel will be on 8.2 OTA replacing ESTRELLA and will still be avail on 8.3

"KGW 24/7 will be available with Digital Limited Basic, on channel 308, effective August 2, 2010."

The Watch TV sub-channels are back on the air.

Thanks for the weather channel update, Skihoodoo!

DigaDo, it looks like they are still playing with the Watch TV strength. I did see a nice strong signal, and then it got drastically cut again.

DigaDo, it looks like they are still playing with the Watch TV strength. I did see a nice strong signal, and then it got drastically cut again.

The first photo shows the new Watch TV Station ID. The second photo shows a typical Watch TV time screen.

seems to me the signal is down about 10% strength ~ from it's "high" of few weeks ago,... I see WATCH TV is on it's top of the hour station ID stating: KOXI is channels 20 and 28 (but, I get NO signal on 20) ....

nor 16 (NO signal either) nor 41 and 44 (NO signals), ...

I DO get 34-1,2,3 but, they are just at the "edge" and often pixeling and about 10-20% less strength than channels 28-1,2,3. ...

The WEATHER forecasts that appear are dated MAY 24th!!

do the engineers even watch their channels??????

What's up w/ WATCH tv and what WILL be broadcast on these stations (if and when?)

Still see no RTV that was supposed to be on in May in PDX broadcast area....?

do the engineers even watch their channels??????

Back during the many months of bad audio on KOXI during 2009 I called Watch TV several times. Most of the time I couldn't get anything but the voice mail machine.

One time I got through to a live person. I told that person that daily recordings since mid-February 2009 demonstrate that KOXI viewers have been suffering through months of overdriven audio that doesn't conform to broadcast standards. I suggested that some of the audio problems, including "clipping" came from the gain being cranked up higher than any other local broadcast station. I asked, does your engineer ever actually check the audio gain or even watch KOXI? I suggested turning down the gain. I even offered to stop by to fix the problem myself--"it would probably take a minute or two--and I'll do it free of charge." The response was something like "we know what we're doing."

Not long after that, in July and August 2009, Watch TV went dark for around thirty days. (Back in the "old days" that length of going dark might put the license in jeopardy). When KOXI returned to air the audio was still cranked up too high and the clipping was still present.

Watch TV was still months away from cranking down the audio to a reasonable level. That adjustment came just a few months ago. My archived recordings could pinpoint the actual date the audio corrections were made, perhaps coinciding with an engineer's visit to Watch TV.

With the recent addition of sub-channels, confusion as to missing audio and programming assignments to those sub-channels, followed by going dark for two weeks toward the end of May/and into early June, it's hard to tell what's going on at Watch TV.

Good grief! What a bunch of crock! Idiots! (who "know what they're doing").

**Will RetroTV be carried by a Portland station anytime soon? KSLM in Salem has no signal in the Beaverton-Aloha area. Or does KSLM still plan to boost the signal across metro Portland?

**I've been receiving all Portland stations (except 28 and 34) with a 3-foot piece of speaker wire hooked to my HDTV. I bought an amplified indoor GE antenna to pick up the Salem station but couldn't so I took it back and bought a $9 cheapy. It works as good as the $35 amplified and a little better than the speaker wire. I can't pick up channel 16 either.

**I just found the "dot.2 digital network" website so I guess it will be coming soon. It doesn't list any cities or affiliates. Wonder which Portland station will carry it?

**What will the KGW 24/7 channel be? Like NWCN?

Just found this on dot2network website (somebody may already have posted):

April 15-- "Meredith has agreed to carry the network in Kansas City, Mo. (DMA 31), and Portland, Ore. (DMA 23), where it operates duopolies.
It owns KCTV-KSMO (CBS/MNT) in Kansas City and KPTV-KPDX (Fox/MNT) in Portland, Ore."

That was April 15, 2008. Hasn't happened. Last I heard was Feb. 2010 (?), when Richard Schilg was selling off a TV station. He said he didn't have the money to buy the equipment he needed to launch dot2, and hoped the station sale would help. But there was no timeline. Or should I say, no revised timeline. He has plenty of old launch dates. I have no expectations that this will ever happen. In 2008, he had state funding on the promise of jobs creation. I doubt he still has that funding.

Still see no RTV that was supposed to be on in May in PDX broadcast area....?

See post #7900 for the quote on expected delays for the Portland site. So far, there's been no more news.

I'm in beaverton/bethany and i'm wondering where the antenna needs to be directed to pick up a better signal for Univision (ch. 47)...this morning i watched a snowy first half of SA vs. MEX...i'm using a homemade 4-bay antenna and pulling down all of the network HD signals, etc.

Any help is much appreciated...and if the signal can't be improved, that's understandable too, thanks!

I'm in beaverton/bethany and i'm wondering where the antenna needs to be directed to pick up a better signal for Univision (ch. 47)...this morning i watched a snowy first half of SA vs. MEX...i'm using a homemade 4-bay antenna and pulling down all of the network HD signals, etc.

Any help is much appreciated...and if the signal can't be improved, that's understandable too, thanks!

From Bethany aim the antenna in an easterly direction toward Skyline Blvd. and Barnes Road.

Does anyone know what is broadcasting on KOPB 10.4 audio stream 3?

The only thing I get on 10.4 is OPB Radio (NPR).

Audioxcel, to get the alternate audio, use your SAP button.

Seems to be jazz on 10.4-SAP3. I googled jazz OPB and saw a 2009 proposal for OPB to take over transmitting for Mt. Hood Community College, proposing that KMHD 89.1 be transmitted from OPB studio on Macadam Ave., so perhaps it's that station, if anyone has time to check it out before I do. Sooner or later, I'd expect OPB to label it.

Audioxcel, to get the alternate audio, use your SAP button.

Seems to be jazz on 10.4-SAP3. I googled jazz OPB and saw a 2009 proposal for OPB to take over transmitting for Mt. Hood Community College, proposing that KMHD 89.1 be transmitted from OPB studio on Macadam Ave., so perhaps it's that station, if anyone has time to check it out before I do. Sooner or later, I'd expect OPB to label it.

OPB did take over KMHD-FM. The studio moved from Mt. Hood Community College to OPB. So it may be that is what you are hearing. I haven't checked out the 10.4 feed. But if it's jazz, that's a good guess.

edited to correct --

OK, correction, so it is KMHD 89.1-FM . I listened online and it matched. And actually it matches on 89.1 regular radio, although it is not in sync, and appeared to be entirely different when I listened earlier today.

Community-supported radio station KMHD has been a staple of the Portland jazz scene for the last 25 years showcasing the best of jazz and blues. Licensed to Mt. Hood Community College in Gresham and operated by Oregon Public Broadcasting, KMHD champions jazz performances and education to ensure that this uniquely American art form continues to thrive in our region.

The only thing I get on 10.4 is OPB Radio (NPR).

KOPB-TV 10.4 carries

10.4-1 KOPB-FM(NPR)
10.4-2 opbmusic("Local music") also on KOPB-FM HD-2
10.4-3 jazz station?

I got an email from someone at RetroTV Network. They seemed to indicate that their network would not be receivable in the Portland area anytime soon. He said they would like a Portland station to pick it up for one of their sub-channels but none had expressed any interest. Sounds to me like KSLM isn't going to add a transmitter...

Either RTN knows something we don't ... or the employee has no idea that KWVT Salem will be in Portland and will carry sister station KSLM as a subchannel. Or, he could be referring to full powered stations, or giving you the standard answer that's right 95% of the time, so he didn't bother to find out what's going on in Portland before he typed an answer.

If I had to bet, I would say KWVT was delayed by the tower lease holdup, and that they will show up a few months late.

Let's hope so. I just ditched FIOS. Also looking forward to the KGW 24/7 channel (August 1)

Michael Mattson kindly updated me on the KWVT move to Portland. Lots of wait time for them (and us) still.

It's little too soon to know a revised timeline, although it looks as if we may begin making some progress soon. After confirming the lease details, we will have to file with the FCC to amend our construction permit, and wait for that amendment to be granted. Then we have six to eight weeks for delivery of the antenna, so it's probably four to five months before we could reasonably expect to be on the air in Portland.

i wonder what opb is doing in Corvallis and Eugene because according to the fcc website they have applied for some new channels in both towns for LD channels i have looked and there are no pending apps for new stations in Portland or Bend for opb

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181220
NEW OR CORVALLIS USA (Digital)

Licensee: OREGON PUBLIC BROADCASTING
Service Designation: LD Digital Low Power Television station (Digital LPTV)
Channel: 39 620 - 626 MHz Application
File No.: BNPDTL-20090825BEN Facility ID number: 181220
CDBS Application ID No.: 1326792



http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181219
NEW OR EUGENE USA (Digital)

Licensee: OREGON PUBLIC BROADCASTING
Service Designation: LD Digital Low Power Television station (Digital LPTV)
Channel: 28 554 - 560 MHz Application
File No.: BNPDTL-20090825BEO Facility ID number: 181219
CDBS Application ID No.: 1326781

The Corvallis translator is designed to fill in a hole in the coverage back in the mountains.

Eugene seems to have two tower sites, and each one has good and bad spots. It looks like OPB is filing for the translator to operate from the other tower site (with KEPB at one).

- Trip

Anybody know what OBPULA (10-100) is? It showed up and there's a signal and a label (and 720p ), but no A/V yet. ... Now it's changed to 480i, but no more info.

OPBULA? UL plus the -100 makes me think of UpdateLogic, which provides data services. Could be wrong on that one, though.

- Trip

I saw a signal but no pic audio on 10-100?? figured maybe some kind of equipment test? 10-100 (one hundred?)

What's goin on w/ WatchTV? Now, their only signals are on 28-1,2 and 34-1,21 being A1 and 2 beign HSN? No more BVM, etc., No signal at all on other various channels that they have listed on their top of the hour station ID for Portland, Vancouver, Camas.

Got a note from KSLM, RTV will be a while, seems whomever was gonna lease them the tower for RTV wanted annual fees higher than a year's total income of KSLM, they say it's coming but, "at least" 5~ months, more like 6+ is what I read between the lines.....

UpdateLogic, sounds like a good guess to me. :) My Zat (which has been off for a few weeks) didn't find 10.100, and my CM isn't able to delete obsolete signals on its own, so it could be gone and I'd never know it.

The CM found 7 subchannels for Ch 34. It registers no signal strength for Ch 34 (I get Chs 28 and 44) but I get the info screen. 34.3-34.7 are unlabeled.

I just downloaded Falcon77's spreadsheet, and see there are some power adjustments I hadn't been keeping up with. KRCW and KPDX have CPs for 1000 kW, and KOPB applied in May for 77 kW (from 32.4).

Checking what I can receive in Aloha with a high gain antenna, we have an analog signal on channel 47 that does not show on the RabbitEars list. The FCC's site says it's KUNP-LP. From the coordinates, it is apparently on the old channel 2 tower.

RabbitEars and the FCC both say that KUNP is on the air in La Grand on channel 16 in a digital format. Sounds like things are moving around.

KUNP and KUNP-LP are two different stations. KUNP-16 is operating digitally from La Grande. KUNP-LP 47 is operating analog from Portland with no digital permit, thus why I'm not listing it on RabbitEars.

- Trip

Anyone know whats up with WatchTV.. they have digital liscenses for KKEI-LD and KOXO-LD from the FCC, but I haven't seen anything from them regarding this. Instead all I see is them switching around stations on multiple channels without any word... very confusing?!

dont forget sometime tomorrow 8.2 changes to kgw 24/7
update
it launched around 1pm in a widescreen format

I am so happy to see this channel! I hope they adjust the volume up, I got blasted when I changed the channel. The audio was crackling, maybe that's why it's been turned down. But even as is, I am happy to see local news/weather 24/7, with improved format and content.

My audio on 8-2 is VERY low......

So everybody broadcasting locally has a sub channel (OR more!) and/or a sister station EXCEPT KOIN ?? What's the problem w/ them and why no .2 for them as the ONLY one without? Hope KGW 8.2 does add some alternate broadcasting/programming vice their last news over and over though...

anything new w/ WatchTV? I get a much improved signal on KORS/KOXI on Channel 28 vice the old ch 16 (about 20% stronger and almost always solid signal now) but, I can't get the other WatchTV signals from ch 16, or 34 (rarely but occasionally w/ pixeling), nor 44, etc. over here east of 192 ave by Lacamas Lake in Camas on my attic mount Weingard 1080 antenna...

So everybody broadcasting locally has a sub channel (OR more!) and/or a sister station EXCEPT KOIN ?? What's the problem w/ them and why no .2 for them as the ONLY one without?

Back in the old days, KOIN had a sub channel with an SD version of the HD program. So IMO not having anything is a tremendous improvement.

Back in the old days, KOIN had a sub channel with an SD version of the HD program. So IMO not having anything is a tremendous improvement.

It's kind of ironic that even though this is still the local HDTV forum, all the discussion now revolves around SD sub-channels to the point that the change in 8.2 was mentioned, yet no one has even posted about KOIN going HD for their local news last week.
That just leaves KPTV/KPDX still using SD widescreen for local news.

> So everybody broadcasting locally has a sub channel
> (OR more!) and/or a sister station EXCEPT KOIN ??
> What's the problem w/ them and why no .2 for them as
> the ONLY one without?

No, the question is why are YOU constantly whining for more
and more subchannels of unwatchable overcompressed crap?
There is only enough bandwidth for 1 HD XOR 2 SD per
channel without massively overcompressing.

Anyone else notice an occasional audio wow on channel 33?

> So everybody broadcasting locally has a sub channel
> (OR more!) and/or a sister station EXCEPT KOIN ??
> What's the problem w/ them and why no .2 for them as
> the ONLY one without?

No, the question is why are YOU constantly whining for more
and more subchannels of unwatchable overcompressed crap?
There is only enough bandwidth for 1 HD XOR 2 SD per
channel without massively overcompressing.

Sub-channels are not necessarily overcompressed crap. There are many stations operating with a HD main channel and one or two SD sub-channels all with good quality. The idea that the entire channel bandwidth is only to be used for a single HD channel is crap. Let's not let a few stations that have problems monitoring their sub-channel quality lead us into forming false conclusions.

Sub-channels are not necessarily overcompressed crap. There are many stations operating with a HD main channel and one or two SD sub-channels all with good quality. The idea that the entire channel bandwidth is only to be used for a single HD channel is crap. Let's not let a few stations that have problems monitoring their sub-channel quality lead us into forming false conclusions.

Part of the issue might be that a lot of people didn't get their HDTVs until after the stations started chopping the bandwidth up into subchannels. So they don't realize how good the HD picture could be if it had more bandwidth.

Part of the problem may also be that many HDTVs do a bad job of displaying SD. My neighbors' HDTVs look terrible in SD. They all think that's just the way SD looks.

Part of the problem may also be that many HDTVs do a bad job of displaying SD. My neighbors' HDTVs look terrible in SD. They all think that's just the way SD looks.

That does not change the concept that removing bits from the primary HD channel to feed a SD sub-channel has an impact on the HD primary.

But I think it explains why a station would add content -- when my neighbors don't notice how really bad their SD is, I doubt they notice much about HD PQ, either.

> There are many stations operating with a HD main channel and
> one or two SD sub-channels all with good quality.

Name one.

WCIU Chicago. They're up to 4 SD subs and that seems to be at the breaking point. Over and over I hear that it had very good PQ when it had 3 SD subs.

- Trip

> There are many stations operating with a HD main channel and
> one or two SD sub-channels all with good quality.

Name one.

KLAS-8 (1 sub), KSNV-3 (2 subs), and KTNV-13 (2 subs), all of Las Vegas.

No matter how perfect a station encodes their HD channel with no sub-channels present, and no matter how perfect they encode the Dolby Surround audio, there will always be those who will complain that either their eyes or ears, maybe both, pick up imperfections that impair their viewing pleasure and will want better from the station.

The problem is that these stations could be broadcasting "HD" in DVD quality. Modern MPEG-2 encoders are good that you can reduce the bitrate to ridiculous levels and all it does is make the picture softer and softer. Most viewers won't even notice that their shows look no more detailed than a DVD and that's what the stations count on.

>> WCIU Chicago.

> KLAS-8 (1 sub), KSNV-3 (2 subs), and KTNV-13 (2 subs), all of Las Vegas.

What antenna are you guys using to pull in Chicago and Las Vegas
from Portland? And how high is the tower you have it mounted on?

> Most viewers won't even notice that their shows look no more detailed
> than a DVD and that's what the stations count on.

That would be a major improvement. Most stuff looks like super-8 dubbed to vhs.

What antenna are you guys using to pull in Chicago and Las Vegas from Portland? And how high is the tower you have it mounted on?

With all due respect, as you may note, neither I nor rdvegas live in Portland. You asked for examples and they were provided. You made no qualifications about them being in Portland or anywhere else.

Honestly, I do sympathize with you. I get the impression that your local broadcasters have not invested in the expensive encoders that many other stations have, and that is damaging your PQ.

- Trip

With all due respect, as you may note, neither I nor rdvegas live in Portland. You asked for examples and they were provided. You made no qualifications about them being in Portland or anywhere else.

Honestly, I do sympathize with you. I get the impression that your local broadcasters have not invested in the expensive encoders that many other stations have, and that is damaging your PQ.

- Trip
To be completely candid, with all the people I've seen swear that, at the time, shows like COPS and SYTYCD, and others were in HD mainly because the were shown in 16:9 format, I have a hard time trusting any message board posts concerning picture quality that I can not personally verify.

I also know that from this post you made, that you do understand this issue...

The thing is that discussing subchannels is relevant to local HDTV since they diminish the quality of the HD streams. There may be differing opinions on them, but I can definitely see an argument that SD subchannels are relevant to local HD discussion.

- Trip


(edited to add....)

I now regret making this post, not because it's not how I feel, but rather the fight for high quality HDTV was lost long before the end of analog TV and it's simply not worth rehashing a lost cause.

Modern MPEG-2 encoders are good that you can reduce the bitrate to ridiculous levels and all it does is make the picture softer and softer. Most viewers won't even notice that their shows look no more detailed than a DVD and that's what the stations count on.

Forget HD, "reduce the bitrate to ridiculous levels" is exactly DirecTV's secret to their very soft SD. I switched to FiOS and I am very pleased with the quality improvement for SD.

The problem is that these stations could be broadcasting "HD" in DVD quality. Modern MPEG-2 encoders are good that you can reduce the bitrate to ridiculous levels and all it does is make the picture softer and softer. Most viewers won't even notice that their shows look no more detailed than a DVD and that's what the stations count on.

DVD quality? Blu Ray quality? Or 3-D Blu Ray quality?

Sub-channels are not necessarily overcompressed crap. There are many stations operating with a HD main channel and one or two SD sub-channels all with good quality. The idea that the entire channel bandwidth is only to be used for a single HD channel is crap. Let's not let a few stations that have problems monitoring their sub-channel quality lead us into forming false conclusions.LOL. The problem is that too many people like you are happy with what they perceive to be "good" quality and either don't understand or care what actual high quality is. Glad you're happy with your mediocre crap though!


KLAS-8 (1 sub), KSNV-3 (2 subs), and KTNV-13 (2 subs), all of Las Vegas.

No matter how perfect a station encodes their HD channel with no sub-channels present, and no matter how perfect they encode the Dolby Surround audio, there will always be those who will complain that either their eyes or ears, maybe both, pick up imperfections that impair their viewing pleasure and will want better from the station.So what? Is this supposed to some how gloss over the simple fact that subchannels reduce main HD channel quality? The issue is that even with new higher efficiency encoders to use what inevitably ends up happening is that the bean counters simply rub their hands with glee and say, "Oooooh, now we can cram in more channels to sell advertizing on!". HD PQ will never be optimized but instead will be reduced to "acceptable to the masses" levels, and the bandwidth will always be stretched too thin. People who actually care about top quality HD have long ago resigned themselves to the idea that broadcast HD PQ will never be what it could, or what they hoped it would be in the beginning.


DVD quality? Blu Ray quality? Or 3-D Blu Ray quality?He made a simple statement. Are you trying to be funny or some thing?



It's kind of ironic that even though this is still the local HDTV forum, all the discussion now revolves around SD sub-channels to the point that the change in 8.2 was mentioned, yet no one has even posted about KOIN going HD for their local news last week.

That just leaves KPTV/KPDX still using SD widescreen for local news.I had been backpacking in the Cascades up in Washington all this last week. When I got home and was flipping through the local stations to catch up on the news I hit KOIN and said to myself almost exactly what you typed, "Looks like KOIN finally lit up their local news in HD. Three down and one to go now." :) I don't recall watching any in the days before I left the previous week, but I did happen to see a couple promos for their "pinpoint" weather during shows I recorded that looked HD and wondered about at the time...


ron

Visual quality of a given OTA signal is all a matter of an indivduals reaction to the stimulus given to their retna. What one believes to be very good quality, another will believe to be crap. Both are correct for their individual taste. The definition of "quality picture" is not precise. Neither are the human eyes.

I had been backpacking in the Cascades up in Washington all this last week. When I got home and was flipping through the local stations to catch up on the news I hit KOIN and said to myself almost exactly what you typed, "Looks like KOIN finally lit up their local news in HD. Three down and one to go now." :) I don't recall watching any in the days before I left the previous week, but I did happen to see a couple promos for their "pinpoint" weather during shows I recorded that looked HD and wondered about at the time...


ron

Cool, enjoying ExtremeHD heh? :)

It took them awhile.
I am a bit surprised they haven't made more promotional spots for it considering how much they promoted their first in the area local widescreen news. Still, it looks pretty good and I'm happy to see them make the investment.

They are using remote HD cams for on scene reporting, which is nice too.

> You made no qualifications about them being in Portland or anywhere else.

At the top of the page it says: "Portland, OR - OTA" in large bold letters.

> Honestly, I do sympathize with you. I get the impression that your local
> broadcasters have not invested in the expensive encoders that many other
> stations have, and that is damaging your PQ

IIRC, awhile back KOIN claimed that their encoder was better than the
other local stations. And they actually eliminated their SD subchannel.
I don't recall seeing any compression artifacts on KOIN, even on the
intro to Big Bang Theory. Some stations have compression artifacts on
static graphics! Thank you KOIN, we appreciate the quality.

KPTV has been having some funky color overlay problem lately. Various
blobs of color appear at random. Example:

http://a.imagehost.org/0752/2010_08_04_KPTV_color_overlay.png

KGW is sending out a bogus bitstream, and hasn't decoded correctly since 2008.
(Not a reception problem, all packets are correct after FEC.) KPTV had the
same problem for a long time, but finally fixed it. KOPB has this problem
occasionally.

KPTV has been having some funky color overlay problem lately. Various
blobs of color appear at random. Example:

http://a.imagehost.org/0752/2010_08_04_KPTV_color_overlay.png

I've noticed the exact same thing on KPTV ever since they switched to Phoenix for master control. Also, it's only on the local insertions, not the network feed.

I've noticed this too, and it's downright ugly. Bright pink, green and purple splotches all over the place. It seems totally different to MPEG compression macroblocking, because of the severity, and it does not appear to be picture dependent. One of the affected shows did not seem to be a "local insertion", but I may be wrong.

>> I've noticed the exact same thing on KPTV ever since they
>> switched to Phoenix for master control. Also, it's only on
>> the local insertions, not the network feed.

> One of the affected shows did not seem to be a "local insertion",
> but I may be wrong.

How does a viewer tell if something is a "local insertion",
assuming it isn't something obviously local like local news or
a local commercial?

On KPTV, the audio bit rate will drop from Fox's 448 kbps to KPTV's 384 kbps during local programming.

Last few days getting a signal on 28-1 (KOXI) but, no pic, like it's "dark" but, still xmitting, though HSN on 28-2 is fine...Whas up?

any more news ref RTV coming to PDX later in 2010?? What station?

Appears that KATU was off the air for awhile early this
morning?

Fox Sports is framing their NFL now for 16:9 and showing in letterbox for 4:3 broadcasts. But for some reason the KPTV guys are chopping off the wide content on their SD broadcast to make it fit 4:3. Fox is even making a point out of saying they're the "first" to do this for SD, allowing people to see additional field width. Seen on the Pats/Falcons preseason game on the air right now.

For some reason KPTV feels it needs to chop it down in order to fill a 4:3 format. They are making everything look like a closeup shot but people are now missing the extra wide content. I hope they fully realize what they've done. The camera guys on the field are now framing their action for 16:9 but because KPTV is chopping out the wide content, SD viewers won't be seeing everything that Fox intended.

Doesn't affect me personally, but I feel for the people who only have 4:3 televisions.

> Fox Sports is framing their NFL now for 16:9 and showing in
> letterbox for 4:3 broadcasts. But for some reason the KPTV
> guys are chopping off the wide content on their SD broadcast
> to make it fit 4:3. Fox is even making a point out of saying
> they're the "first" to do this for SD, allowing people to see
> additional field width.

KPTV has a SD broadcast? I haven't seen anything other than 720p.
Some content is upscaled and pillerboxed from SD, but it is still
a HD 16:9 *broadcast*.

Most movies are wider than 4:3 and have had the same letterbox
vs pan-and-scan issue for ages.

I just ran a channel scan and found something odd on channel 46.

46-1 (normally the first subchannel is on -3 for some reason)
with a virtual channel of 0.0

No call letters !?!?