I just looked at the OPB - DTV schedule for this coming week and noticed that a Tom Petty concert is slated for 10pm on Tues and Thurs. parts 1 and 2. Does anyone know if these will be in HD? Up until a couple of weeks ago, whenever I received the emailed DTV schedule from OPB, they would list each entry with the format - HD, widescreen, etc. but no more. Anyone know for sure?

Part 1 of the concert was on tonight at 10pm, and it was widescreen HD all the way. Absolutely beautiful - a real showcase for HDTV. Watching it on my 106" screen, it actually felt like I was at the concert. I'm not even a big Tom Petty fan, but I couldn't pull myself away from the show.

If you didn't catch it tonight (actually, 'last night' to be precise, as it's after midnight now), be sure not to miss it when it's on Sunday or Tuesday. Part 2 will air Thursday and Saturday...

-tony

I actually flipped in to the Tom Petty show toward the end of last Thursday night's showing. Just expected it to be SD like Austin City Limits is and was very pleasantly surprised. Looked and sounded great! I like TP so now that I know they're in HD I'm definitely planning on catching all of both parts this week.

ron

I flipped on OPB just as Tom Petty was starting and though I'm not a Tom Petty fan at heart, I was compelled to stay just because of the PQ and I ended up really enjoying his performance. I love the Blues and didn't realize how much his roots are based in the Blues.

Was KATU off the air for everyone Sunday night? I really wanted to catch Dinosaur in HD, I got a signal strength but no video/audio.

Wild, Wild West was awesome on KOIN, only a couple of glitches for me, a first rate presentation.

I couldn't get KATU last night either. My boys (7 & 5) and I sat down at 7 to enjoy the show, but unfortunately got nothing but a black screen. We ended up watching Independence Day on Fox instead - all but the scary parts at least. :-)

Does that happen with KATU often?

-tony

I think they were down once before about a year ago for about 2 weeks due to an encoder problem. Anyone else recall?

For whatever it's worth (probably not much), a CSR from Comcast just told me that they expect to have HD in the Portland area "around October." I can't believe it's taking this long ...

I was sitting in front of the TV a couple nights ago and a Comcast commercial came on. As I just happened to have a phone in my hand after hanging up on another call I dialed them up to inquire about HD service too. The guy I spoke with seemed fairly well informed about the situation and said it would probably be a couple more months. Of course I gave him a little grief about the prior statement from their Oregon Official about it being "by summer". At any rate, he said they were just getting ready to complete the Seattle rollout with the rest of the locals they haven't been getting and some of the national stuff like HBO, ESPN etc. So, looks like it's slowing getting closer to reality here in PDX. I mentioned to him that I'm a current D* sub and have been very dissapointed with their recent HD additions due to the extra compression and filtering which have resulted in less than stellar PQ. He said he thought their PDX HD should be good with all the recent fiber that's been layed (insalled? hung? whatever they do with fiber anyway :)). I'll be checking it out when it becomes available. I told him I really hated to go back to cable but if the PQ is good I will definitely consider it. I asked if we'd see a big HD promo blitz when it rolls out and he said we would be well aware of it all right.

ron

I'm glad (and envious) for you Portlanders. Down here in Woodburn, we have some podunk cable operator who's rates are reaching the sky and I doubt they will ever carry HD. People here are dropping them like flies and adding E* or D* or just going OTA. I hope Dish has a good HD rollout soon, I will definitely be watching the Tech Chat Monday night.

Great news, guys, here's an email reply I just received from Pat Shearer concerning the new WB digital transmitter (posted with his permission):

Darrell,

Well, good and bad. We have had numerous delays, some with the city, some with the installation and some with our new corporate owners. Currently, I think we have all the city issues resolved. The installation has finished phase one and is waiting for phase two to begin based on the availabillity of the installer. He will be here next Monday. Phase one was the mechanical installation and after working on it for just one week, the original installer went home for the weekend and broke both his wrists. The factory had to bring in someone else to finish that phase. It is now done.

As for corporate, this is actually really good news. They want to maximize our on-air quality so we have gone back to the drawing board with the design for the signal flow from our master control room to all our transmitter sites. I met with the corporate director of engineering last week and discussed how we might accomplish those goals.

What this means for you is that we will be receiving the WB primetime High Definition feeds at our studio and keeping them in high def all the way to air. For all other times, we will take our analog feed from master control and convert it to digital. It will then be kept digital and upconverted to high def resolution so that on-air, our signal will always be 1080i. We will also have a sub channel with our signal in standard def for use on our analog transmitters, cable headends and translators.

What this means for us is a complete re-design of our signal as it leaves our master control. We will be putting in about 25 new pieces of equipment for various parts of the system and installing an entirely new microwave system from our studio to our DTV transmitter site at Sylvan. Of course, all of this has to happen before we can start broadcasting in high def. We may end up begining our DTV transmission in standard def and upgrading to high def as the equipment is purchased and installed. Much of it is still to be ordered as this re-design has taken quite a bit of time and research and is just being finalized this week.

At this time, the earliest I can see us getting on the air with DTV would be about the second week of August. For HD, it will probably be around September 1st. Keep your fingers crossed.

Pat

And another follow-up:

You might also mention that we plan to run an on-air advertising campaign when we know the date to let viewers know to tune in for the DTV signal.

Another side note is that the original plan had us sending out a static PSIP code but with the current plan, we will have full programming information in the PSIP updated on the fly through our corporate Media Services office. This will be done through a computer connection to our corporate intranet.

This is good news.

Does anyone know which WB primetime shows will be in HD? I would love to see Smallville and Charmed in HD.

Cool. Thanks for the update. Sounds like they are doing it the right way. I would think they will immediately become the "best" HDTV (from a reliability standpoint) in the Portland market. Perhaps it will shame some of the others into upgrading as well (won't be holding my breath on that one though...) This:We will also have a sub channel with our signal in standard def for use on our analog transmitters, cable headends and translators.is the only thing that concerns me. There has got to be some way around this. Did you happen to ask him about it and the resulting PQ degradation on the HD channel?

ron

Ron, I didn't ask him. We will have to wait and see the results.

Cris, Smallville, Reba, Family Affair and Everwood are in HD. Here's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164671) the link to current HD offers.

Yes, I was aware of that list for last season. I was hoping there might be some additions for the new season.

That is excellent news. Smallville will be great in HD and my girlfriend will be happy about Reba in HD. I don't think Family Affair is still on the schedule, is it? As far as Everwood, I never really watch that one, but hopefully there will be more next season.

Now all we need is a HD UPN!! Although channel 49 has appeared to have given up on broadcasting anything. At least I'm not receiving it. What the hecks going on with them anyway???

Has anybody else been having any issues with KGW the last couple days? I've been getting some breakups much like KATU (which also seems to be worse again). But I'm also having some probs with my D* reception so am wondering if it just may be my receiver starting to crap out maybe. Trying to isolate what the cause(s) might be.

ron

I just got this list from HDTV Magazine. Bummer, I was hoping Charmed would make the list.

Monday
Everywood

Tuesday
Gilmore Girls
One Tree Hill

Wednesday
Smallville

Thursday
What I Like About You
Run Of The House

Friday
Reba
Like Family
All About The Andersons

Sunday
Everwood
Smallville
Tarzan

I noticed that KGW digital channel was not being detected for the past three days ( I am using Sony HD-200). Has anyone else noticed it?

Also, channel 30.2 (FOX widescreen) is now broadcasting the same programs on 30.1 and everything is in 4x3 mode (no widescreen).

Hormoz, see my post (two above) about KGW. I'm still getting it but there are dropouts. Signal strength seems OK though. Anybody else?

I think Fox/UPN may be getting ready to redo their setups. They had scheduled this summer to add PSIP capability to their signals and were going to get their channels straightened back out at the same time (have been jumbled since they combined and moved their offices/equipment earlier this year.

ron

Someone at KATU is asleep at the switch. Several times now I have been watching and when they go from HD to SD programming or vice versa, they forget to switch to the correct format and the screen is blank.

anyone still has DD drop-outs on ABC ? if no, did you had them recently and how did you manage to fix the issue ?
thanks
Dan

I have yet to watch ABC without any kind of A/V dropouts. I usually only watch them on the weekends for a movie & Alias, so I'll let you know what I see this weekend.

now I have confirmation from Zenith as well that the problem is with ABC broadcast and not my tuner or receiver.

I made an inquiry about the status of FOX widescreen (ch. 30.2) and got the following response, which I thought I'd share with the forum readers. Based on the last paragraph, I suppose it doesn't hurt for us to give these guys a little encouragement so they know their effort is appreciated.

Hormoz

--- starts here --

Thanks for your note. Currently, we're in the process of transitioning
over to switched 16:9 operations on channel 30.2. We had simply been
feeding the raw Fox 16:9 feed to it direct from satellite. That's not
representative of real-life operations, however, so we needed to begin
the transition.

Shortly, probably within the next 60 days, we will be switching between
16:9 and 16:9 / 4:3 pillar box content as part of our normal program
stream. Once we've accomplished that, 30.2 will always carry a 16:9
feed and 30.1 will always carry a 4:3 feed.

In the mean time, you may see times when the raw satellite feed is up
and you may see times like now when the semi-switched test feed is up.

Please understand that the DTV stations are still highly experimental.
We make zero revenue from them, yet they cost us hundreds of thousands
of dollars a year to maintain. As such, all projects that involve the
DTV systems here at KPTV and KPDX are done with "bootlegged" time and
effort by a small group of enthusiast engineers here at the stations.
We apologize for any inconvenience our experiments may cause.

Thanks,
Ed

---------------------------------
Edward E. Williams, CSTE
Director of Engineering
Meredith Broadcasting - Portland
Fox 12 Oregon / UPN 49
---------------------------------

No mention of UPN, is it ever going to go back on the air?

Thanks KATU for MNF!

I just want KATU to know that Monday Night Football looked great in HDTV last night. The only problems I saw were all because of the national feed. This was the best ABC HDTV live event I've seen so far.

What time was the game on? I turned on my receiver a little after 7 and it was not on. I heard it got cancelled in the 3rd quarter, but even the Dish guide did not have it listed.

I watched a little of it right when I got home from work. Looked pretty good. Then a lightning and rain storm forced them to halt at which point I guess they just scrubbed it. You must have just missed it at 7:00.

ron

Bummer. How many of you saw the HDNET CART race Saturday? That was HDTV at it's best. I can hardly wait for Dish to fire up the HDNET channels. The rain delay was a big plus being able to see some of the other shows that HDNET has to offer.

Looks like a great Friday/Saturday night for OPB HD next weekend:

August 15 Friday

8 PM Desert Speaks - Seasons of the Mojave.
The modern history of the Mojave Desert is intertwined with
the history of humans along Route 66. In this land of
extremes, temperatures can reach 120 degrees in the summer
and dip below freezing in the winter.
(Rerun) HD

8:30 Smart Travels -- Europe with Rudy Maxa - Sicily.
Once the hub of the ancient world, Sicily offers up a
vibrant, sun-soaked brew of history, tradition and intense
cultural pride. At Palermo, we visit the lively market, and
marvel at Monreale Cathedral. Finally, we climb to the top
of Mount Etna for steaming craters and unearthly views.
(Rerun) HD

9:00 Idaho Edens.
IDAHO EDENS celebrates Idaho, the keeper of special places,
including places like Priest Lake, the Seven Devils, Box
Canyon, Silver Creek, the White Clouds, Craters of the
Moon, Owyhee Canyonlands, The Henry's Fork and more.
(CC-R) HD

10:00 Oregon Naturally.
This new locally produced special presents a visually
stunning high-definition look at the splendors of the state
set to inspiring music.
(Rerun-Repeats Sun. at 10 p.m.) HD

----------------------------------------------
August 16 Saturday

8 PM Roy Bedichek's Vanishing Frontier.
This one-hour high-definition, nature documentary is a look
at the relationship between people and the natural world.
(CC-Rerun-Repeats Tue. at 8 p.m.) HD

9:00 America Welcomes The World! Cultural Olympiad Concert
Recorded during the 2002 Winter Olympics,
this performance special commemorates the international
spirit of the Olympics with highlights including the
King'Singers, Frederica von Stade and John Williams
conducting the official theme of the 2002 Olympic games.
(R) HD

10:00 Soundstage - Chris Isaak & Raul Malo.
(CC-R-Repeats Mon. at 10 p.m.) HD

It seems like PBS is really stepping up with the HD lately. I guess they are doing away with the national demo loop and will be going with a full time HD/widescreen upconvert feed. Wonder how much of it OPB will pass through? Some details here (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=281239). I'll miss the stuff you posted about for this weekend as I'm leaving to head up to go backpacking east of Seattle for a week. I'll definitely look for that repeat of the Chris Isaak Soundstage when I get back though.

ron

Ron, are you headed up into the Alpine Wilderness area? I used to live in Yakima and have covered about every square inch of that area, it is really beautiful. rugged county. Have fun!

Yep. Headed up to Jade lake on the NE flank of Mt. Daniel. Was hoping to spend some time playing around on the glaciers and perhaps even doing the summit but the way the weather's looking I'm starting to wonder about working next week and maybe going the following week... You're right, the Alpine Lakes Wilderness is pretty much my favorite area to go in the NW. It really is nice.

ron

I'm still waiting for info on when UPN might be going back on the air. Has anyone heard anything?? Seems like their concentrating on FOX and have completely forgotten about UPN.

Anyone?

Does anyone have any idea when ABC, FOX will increase the transmitter power? I know this topic has been beaten to death twice over on the message boards, but I thought I'd check in case anyone has a prediction or an update.

Ron, I'm jealous, Jade Lake is a paradise. I haven't been up Mt. Daniel but I've bagged a few other peaks in the region, including the entire Tarmigan Traverse back in 95 and Glacier Peak. Have fun.

I've e-mailed OPB to find out what they have planned. I'll post something when (if) I hear back.

Hey does anyone have any info on Comcast offering HD in Portland? I know they're in Seattle, but I haven't heard anything about PDX.

kbugbee, welcome to the forum, have you read the past posts here? There was some info posted awhile back. I will never have access to Comcast where I live so I don't know their schedule.

Originally posted by Marissadad
I will never have access to Comcast where I live so I don't know their schedule.
It doesn't seem like Comcast knows, either.

I live in Salem. Every time I contact Comcast (and speak to somebody who knows what HD is) they say end of the year. Just like HD Tivo, Dish 921, etc.....

all Portland OR metro area members,
would you be interested in a monthly HDTV users meeting face-to-face ? if there isn't one set already...
the benefits would be: exchange of experience and info., have one voice toward Comcast/local channels, etc...
regards
Dan.

Dan,

Sounds like a great idea. I haven't been too active on the list lately as I've pretty much settled in to my setup.

But I keep watching this list (is that called trolling?) as I am eager to increase my HDTV material with one of the many "by the end of the year" HDTV technologies that's coming (Comcast, 921, HDTivo, new channels, etc.) I also keep wishing there was a real cheap HDTV receiver I could use until then - as my SIR-T150 doesn't receive ABC (terribly garbled audio.)

Maybe a users meeting would let us share experiences easier - and even let us see different hardware.

Erik

Thanks for the responses. I too would be interested in an HDTV users meeting. I have yet to get a tuner and I own two HTDV's. I was hoping Comcast would be offering content soon... then I wouldn't have to rewire my place.

Originally posted by BitJumper
Dan,

Sounds like a great idea. I haven't been too active on the list lately as I've pretty much settled in to my setup.

But I keep watching this list (is that called trolling?)
Erik

Actually that would be called "Lurking". Trolling is when someone talks a bunch of BS just to see who he can get a rise out of.

I would guess that there are a lot of us lurkers here. I have over 100 posts but I've been lurking on AVS since about 1999 or so.

It a great place to learn all about our favorite hobby!

Have fun.

Originally posted by 1500P
all Portland OR metro area members,
would you be interested in a monthly HDTV users meeting face-to-face ?
Dan.

We did that a couple of times about 2-3 years ago and it WAS fun. Would be even more fun now as many of us have HD gear, wheras back then it was really hard to find, or to find a signal.

BTW - I have not seen any mention of the poor quality of the systems at this year's Street of Dreams. While there were a couple of decent displays, most of the sets, including the big impressive projection ones, were displaying poorly set up SD. In fact I don't think ANY of them had HD and it was quite sad to see in 2.5 million dollar houses!

I agree with the comments regarding this year's Street of Dreams...

Defintiely a poor showing with no attempt to do things right. Some of it may be due to reception issues, as not a single home had an exterior antenna, nor is it likely that there was any thought to an interior antenna in the attic. No rabbit ears seem appropriate for $2M homes!

I can attest to the fact that OTA reception is possible, as I live just down the street across from the "parking lot". Outdoor antenna is used due to multipath issues.

Noted that the satellite setups shown were Dish Network, though no corporate sponsor was visible. Past years had DirecTV and/or Comcast, with reps available for questions.

Wonder how the outdoor plasma display over the pool is going to survive the east winds of winter!

It's a shame that the most expensive home up there will never have a view, and the ideal view enjoyed by the first and second homes will disappear when construction builds out in the rest of the development. Only the "Frank Lloyd Wright" style home will retain a view off one its decks.

Mike
Perpetual View of the Southern Willamette Valley...
View to the North obscured by a Water Tank!

Originally posted by 1500P
... would you be interested in a monthly HDTV users meeting face-to-face?

Sounds like a great idea to me.

Monthly might be a bit ambitious to commit to starting off. I wouldn't mind meeting the contributors and other trollers of this thread and then deciding on a future frequency. It has been most informative for me (as have the other AVS threads) to help me get off the ground with HD.

I, too, have been enjoying the expanded HD content OPB has been offering. The "Soundstage" presentations are terrific. "Spartans" is excellent. The OPB guide doesn't tell half the story of HD content they have been showing. SQ has been rock solid - thanks OPB!! - as opposed to the intermittent KOIN and KATU output (altho the MNF game on KATU was solid).

Up here on Bull Mtn. I have been "getting away" with a Silver Sensor perched right next to my Sony KP-46WT500. I delayed getting an OTA receiver fearing a long coax run from an attic or roof antenna. But now I'm thrilled to be pulling in strong signals. Location, location! (The Mrs. isn't too thrilled about the new decoration.)

Lastly, I called Comcast today and got the "by the end of the year" for PDX canned response. I wonder if we started telling them that with football season here now, they'll lose more accounts to D* now that it's carrying ESPNHD if they don't hurry up!

Here's the response I got from OPB about their HD channel:

OPB will certainly air material from the PBS HD service when it starts, which will be after the first of the year. We are required to simulcast 12 hours per day of our analog service, which will continue between 8 am and 8 pm.

I don't know why they're required to simulcast the analog service if they're going to have a dedicated channel; maybe that will get cleared up later.

Hmm, always "the first of the year"...

BB

Any of you guys open to hosting different nights of HD football? I can't get ESPNHD yet, but I could host a CBS or ABC game.

It seems a co-working finally got ahold of somebody at Comcast who knows something.

Apparently Portland was near the top of the list for HD, but an huge infrastructure upgrade to support 750 mHz was pushed out, and we moved way down the list. Looks like its going to be quite awhile. Also, the signal will be scrambled, so those off-the-shelf QAM STBs that are just now starting to come out won't work anyway.

Made him feel pretty good about that HDV420 he'd just bought. :)

Having a scrambled signal is *very* dissapointing. I've been on the fringe on purchasing my HD equipment to see how Dish and Comcast come through on their HD.

The silver lining on this, is I guess I'll be getting my HD for "free" with OTA. Now to figure out what to buy? An HD pc tuner card???

Lurker Rob

Also, the signal will be scrambled, so those off-the-shelf QAM STBs that are just now starting to come out won't work anyway.
The way the whole cable agreement was worked out, TV's are supposed to have a card slot built in to them and the local cable company provides the decoder card for their cable system. I know, it stinks, but what are you going to do? Seems they all have us by the "boys" these days.

Well, keep in mind this is just what "some guy" from Comcast says. It could have just been his personal opinion, or he could have been playing the Best Buy salesman and making stuff up as he went along. There are other cities with Comcast service where the signal isn't scrambled.

What's the status of KPDX and KWBP as far as getting on air?

Scott, they held off a few more months to get better equipment. Last time I heard from Pat, they were looking at September for coming online. They will be fulltime 1080i.

KPDX, who knows, they have no money to spend and the engineers are keeping Fox running on BandAids, so it's anybody's guess.

Scott & Marissadad:

KPDX is broadcasting a Fox show, The O.C., in HD right now. I am getting it on 30-2.

Bob

Thanks, KGW.........

You screwed up another good concert tonight. Shania Twain was all screwed up with no picture for about 15 min and then no sound for another 10 min. on the good digital channel... The other channel was poor quality (low bit rate)

Are we going backwards here in Portland....

Steve

Did Shania kick in HD when it came on? I couldn't get anything the first 10 minutes so I ended up watching it on the Dish local feed since it looked better than KGW's SD feed.

Bob, are you sure O.C. was HD and not just the Faux widescreen 480p? I can't believe KPDX would have installed HD equipment yet since they are so broke.

Marissadad:

You're probably right about the WS-only on KPDX. The PQ wasn't quite what I expected although it was pretty good in SD digital. I reacted to the show title which had an overlay of the "Presented in HD" promo stuff. KPDX probably just passes that thru from Fox regardless of how they present the signal (truth in labeling?). It was slightly better OTA than my feeds from either D* or Comcast. I was impressed by the signal continuity. No breakups like the ones I continually get on KATU (except for MNF was good - I wonder why that is?) HD sitcoms.

I need to move some of my gear around as I can't validate 5.1 in my current setup. I either need to get an 18' optical cable (cost-prohibitive!) or move things.

Bob

Anybody else had problems with KOIN over the weekend? On Sunday I finally was able to get a picture but it was only on one channel. Is that correct?

Of, course I also lost the mapping to channel 6 (as I often do) and now appears as channel 40.

Anybody else experience these problems?

Karl, I lost KOIN also. I manually re-entered it last night and it's back to normal.

Do you usually loose the "6" mapping on your 6000 like I do? It seems like quite often it seems to go back to the actual digital channel (40). For me it's a pain because I have "6-01" programmed in my Pronto.

I lose mapping for KOIN regularly on my 6000 as well. I never have any mapping problems with any of the other stations. I really wish KOIN would get their s* together and fix that.:rolleyes:

While I wish the same thing, I don't want to seem harsh on Lee and his crew. It seems like they get quite a bit accomplished given the budget they get (which sounds like it's barely enough to keep things running).

Karl, whenever KOIN disappears from the "6" slot and remaps to 40, I go into the setup and reinstall it to 6 and it usually works unless their PSIP is still misbehaving. I do have a 6000.

How's that new PJ behaving? Are you still thinking about having an open house one of these days? I am getting ready to start building my dedicated theatre and would like to get some ideas.

When you say "reinstall it to 6", you mean going into the local channel setup and typing in "40" and then saving once it displays a signal? That's usually what I do. It's kind of weird I never have to do that with 2 and 8 (and FOX for that matter).

My other pet peeve is seeing another sub-channel for standard definition. If you are able to receive the digital channels, wouldn't you be able to get the HD? Why would you watch the SD sub-channel instead? I'm sure there is a reason that has already been discussed.

Yeah, my projector been working great! I've been trying to figure out when to have a meet. It's just that my wife has been recuperating from major surgery and hasn't felt like having company much. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be able to schedule something. Somebody mentioned wanting to bring their HTPC so that should be fun!

It would be great if somebody had a Bravo DVD player to bring too!

Stay tuned...

My prayers go out to your wife, I hope she recuperates quickly.

A meet sounds great! I can't wait.

As far as KOIN doing the SD channels, Lee stated awhile back that it had to do with people who had HD sets that could not alter the signal when locked onto an HD signal. Giving them the SD channel offers that option for those sets.

My question is: Why don't those people just use the downconverted S-Video connection from the 6000? It would probably look better than the SD feed.

Thanks for the prayers!

Ah, now I remember the reason for the sd channel! Your idea about the S-video makes sense to me! I guess would also make sense to use KOIN's signal if the line doubler/scaler on first generation sets(for example with my old Mits RPTV) was not that good and you wanted to avoid CRT burn-in.

Another nice thing about having my new LCD projector - don't have to worry about burn-in anymore!

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate all the hard work Lee has done. However this remapping problem has been going on for what, a couple of years now? Seems like it should be a pretty easy fix especially since none or the other networks are having the same problem. It just gets very frustrating to have your receiver lock up for a bit and then have to go back and relearn the station again. It's really frustrating if all you were doing in the first place was scanning through the channels. And sometimes, if you try and change it back too soon, it will just mess up again as soon as your done.

Although if it was a pretty easy fix I'm sure Lee would have taken care of it a long time ago. Sigh. Still, very frustrating.

But for everything else, Thanks Lee for hanging in there.:)

On MNF OTA via KATU, I am experiencing lots of signal breakups during the first half. Just wondering if it is my signal acquisition and if anyone else is having the same problem Maybe it is an ABC feed problem that KTU can't alter? They are only for microseconds but the stuttering during plays makes it hard to follow the action.

Yeah Dean, I understand the frustration! :(

Does anyone have a STB that can read KOIN's PSIP data? Lee has posted in the past that they have the only machine in the area that actually transmits it, though once WB comes live, it will also have it.

I have a Samsung Sir-T151 and it displays it perfectly (most of the time!)

I get the PSIP data from all the channels on my Zenith HDV420, AFAIK. KOIN is the only channel that transmits closed captions that my Zenith can recognize.

Great. I didn't need another reason to be mad at Dish Network. :) I'll have to wait to see if Comcast gets their act together regarding HD.

On MNF OTA via KATU, I am experiencing lots of signal breakups during the first half.

AFAIK this is SOP for KATU.

Am I correct in my understanding that no one in PDX gets glitch-free KATU (because they are spitting out an invalid signal) and that this has been going on for, what , a year now?!?

Did anyone take note of the frequency of the break-ups on MNF last night? Is anyone getting perfect picture and sound (zero break-ups)?

I have a Samsung TS-160 and the signal meter was locked at 36%. Picture and sound looked great, but I get some minor blockiness and audio drops about every 15-20 seconds.

Originally posted by Larry Hutchinson
AFAIK this is SOP for KATU.

Am I correct in my understanding that no one in PDX gets glitch-free KATU (because they are spitting out an invalid signal) and that this has been going on for, what , a year now?!?

That is my understanding as well. I have exellent signal strength and get video pauses in regular intervals (around 1min). From reading here it seems that different STBs handle the errors differently. Some better, some worse.

It was breaking up for me too and signal strength was bouncing but all othe digital channels were fine.

Am I correct in my understanding that no one in PDX gets glitch-free KATU (because they are spitting out an invalid signal) and that this has been going on for, what , a year now?!?I would say that's about right. Except it seems like it's been consistently like this from somewhere very early in the year? IIRC it seems like they were either good or bad before that. With my Mits receiver I now just get regular video breakups (every minute or so?) but the audio seems to be OK.

ron

I tried watching "Simple Rules" last night and in addition to the a/v breakups, I noticed the video seemed to be jerky. Needless to say, I watched for about 5 minutes and gave up. Has anyone had any communication with Allan Batdorf at KATU about these issues?

Originally posted by Larry Hutchinson
Am I correct in my understanding that no one in PDX gets glitch-free KATU (because they are spitting out an invalid signal) and that this has been going on for, what , a year now?!?

Yep. MNF audio had so many breakups I seriously considered using the Standard Def audio. Too bad the delay is so significant.

I can't remember when KATU's digital sound did NOT break up.

Specs: Samsung SIR T-165, 50% signal strength.

Let's all start sending Alan an email:

ABatdorf@katu.com

Did anyone take note of the frequency of the break-ups on MNF last night?

I made a half-hearted attempt but gave up since it was interfering with my viewing (as if the glitches weren't.) For me, watching a recording using my HiPix card, I get glitches in pairs about 2-3 secs apart every minute or so.

If I were truly anal, I would write a program to take a log of glitch times defined perhaps as key presses as I watch the program.

A note for all you football fans out there. I just checked the recently-posted KOIN HD schedule and it appears their first 4 committed games will be the nationally-carried games in HD. Hooray for KOIN!!!! I was afraid for awhile that they would opt to carry some Seahawks games on their analog channel and deprive us of the real deal on HD.

Sorry Seahawks fans but I, for one, would prefer getting my money's worth out of my HD investment. Let's hope (well, I do anyway) that KOIN continues in this vein.

Lots of hours scheduled for the US Open this weekend, too. Great sports viewing coming up!

Bob

What's up with OPB and tonight's Requiem Broadcast? It's locally produced - in HDTV - and they don't even switch it over from the SD upconvert!!

To add insult to injury, their broadcast booth or engineering numbers are unlisted and NO ONE answers the f'n phone at night!

ARGGHH... I really wanted to enjoy this show but have spent an hour trying to wake someone up over there~!!

Frustrated in Portland, :rolleyes:

The Requiem is on again Sunday at 9 PM, maybe they will get it right this time.

Here's a follow up to my frustrated post from last night...

I eventually found a name online of the Director of Engineering and left him a "somewhat angry" phone message. He DID call me back today and apologized for the error. He was actually a bit upset himself because he was involved in the production of this program.

The bottom line is that it was human error. Someone physically needed to push a button last night and didn't.

He said the Sunday broadcast willl be in HiDef - he'll personally make sure of it... he also said there's much discussion today at OPB about communication and the phones at night - someone with GOOD information, like me, should be able to get it to them.

Happier,
;)

I've exchanged few mails a month ago with Alan (KATU) about the drop-outs, he was implying that there might be an issue with my receivers (audio/video), I've sent him the reply I got from Zenith and Onkyo that this is a problem with their broadcast not with my equipment, never heard back from him after that, not sure why but I can guess...

There's just too many of us in the Portland area that get perfect reception on ALL the other OTA channels for KATU problems to be in the receivers. I thought for a while it might be multipath, but you know as the transmitters are in the same location that it should affect other channels also. While I find KATU "watchable" in HD, it does glitch, pixelate and do other strage things that just don't happen on any of the other HD signals.

And it's too bad because there are a couple of shows that I really want to watch in HD on KATU.

There's just no doubt that they have some issues with their equipment. And I'm sure they know it. But like all the others, finding time and money in the budget to support something that doesn't add to their bottom line is a pretty hard sell I'd imagine. I guess all we can do is keep some pressure on by bitching in a nice way and hopefully, eventually, they will allocate the resources to do the job right. Can anybody say "hell freeze over" ;).

ron

Frankly I'm amazed at what they can achieve now given their budget and present audience. I wonder how many people actually get HD in the Portland/Salem/Vancouver areas.

I wonder how many people actually get HD in the Portland/Salem/Vancouver areas.Probably pretty paltry. That's why we have to "vote early and often" with the complaints :D.

ron

About 2 years ago, Jeff Gianola made a snide remark (jokingly) about the 15 people in the Portland area who could receive their HD signal.

I sent Alan an email yesterday to alert him to the breakups and that the forum is reporting various locations and equipment. No response yet.

Last spring I was given the figure that there was about 4000 people in the Portland area with HD receivers. It seemed low to me. But then with "only" around a million households, and a market penetration of around 1% the number should be only 1000 systems.

Anyway, I suspect our house may well be the only one on the block with a good HD home theater...

Alanp: At 1% of a million that would be 10,000 HD capable, if my math is right. What block do you live on? There may be at least 2 of us in Tigard (not that I am in the category of "good HD home theater") - but I do get great HD OTA on my Zenith 420. My "theater" part is a bit lacking, just by the layout of my house.

Bob

Actually, MY math is off. Because I forgot some very important factors, like that 60% of the houses ONLY get their feed from cable, which has not gone HD in our area (at least that's what I gather) - so the folks who actually have OTA reception are more limited.

There ought to be about 50-100 of us in Tigard if the numbers are reasonable - but there are a lot more than 100 blocks in this suburb...

And I'm on 93rd near McDonald, my room is wonderful for home theater, and my lovely spouse and I have agreed that the family room, a nice vaulted 19x23 room is our dedicated TV room so the audio and video gear get priority on how they are set up. Of course the living room and dining room are entirely under her control as a result, which is fine by me as I rarely use those rooms...

Frankly it amazes me how few folks have gone to HD, given that they spend way more on things they use far less.

Alanp: Lucky you - I'm envious! But the gist of all this is that we HD-prepared folk aren't numerous enough to command the attention of the station budget directors. Advertising revenue doesn't stream seperately for HD production, yet.

From what I have read in other threads about carriage or not of HD programming in other markets and the reliability of HD signals within those who have them, we are comparatively in pretty good shape.

I think one contributor affecting peoples' decisions to not acquire HD equipment may be somewhat related to my own situation. I am on the north side of Bull Mtn. on a greenway. I have an extremely small window of the southern sky from about anywhere on my property and growth is slowly closing that for my DirecTV dish. I have not upgraded my 7-yr old D* equipment because I think it will surely become useless. I am holding out for Comcast to enjoy ESPNHD, HDNet, etc. I think many in the PDX metro area are similarly limited for OTA signal acquisition because of our geography. In fact, I recall reading some earlier comments in this thread about that frustration. The one advantage of my location is a clear view of the Sylvan towers. So I am only OTA at this time (and I can't wait for US Open tennis this weekend).

I think the watershed event for us in Portland will be Comcast's delivery of HD. Then we will see more people lined up at BB and CC to buy their HDTVs. And when they hear about the "free" programming from our network affiliates, they will pursue the OTA road as well. Then as the number of HD viewers rises at a faster pace, maybe, there will be a realignment of budgetary allocations for equipment that will serve us all at a higher level. IMHO, of course.

Bob

Bob,

I totally agree with you on this! The slow acceptance of cable TV for HD is in my eyes the biggest reason why it has been so slow to take off. I think, content deficit, package offers, budgets, and other concerns will fall in line once people get the notion that HD is generally available through cable.

There's just no doubt that they have some issues with their equipment. And I'm sure they know it. But like all the others, finding time and money in the budget to support something that doesn't add to their bottom line is a pretty hard sell I'd imagine. I guess all we can do is keep some pressure on by bitching in a nice way and hopefully, eventually, they will allocate the resources to do the job right.

I have to wonder if there might be some way of making a formal complaint about KATU-DT to the FCC.

Ya know, it is really stupid to go to all the trouble and expense to put out a digital signal but then spit out an invalid signal that drives all the viewers up the wall.

Hi Guys,

This is a little off the venue, but I was hoping to get a little local insight on some HD hardware being used.

I'm a long time reader, but recent poster. I'm making the switch from a Hitachi 50 analog to Panny 50 LCD. I currently have standard cable and wasn't planning on getting digital cable unless it will improve the PQ dramatically. Also, I did not intend to get SAT, but wanted to get an OTA HD receiver for DVI to monitor. (recommendations?)

My questions is, and correct me if my thinking is wrong.

Can I get a tuner and connect my standard cable to it and then just switch between regular cable and OTA HD thru this tuner? Is this a good way to go? If my thinking is off base or you could put me on the correct path, I'd really appreciate it.

Many thanks,

Larz

Larz,

Sure, most (if not all) of the HD tuners will integrate the antenna signals with the cable and/or satellite signals. I suspect you're going to need to go to digital cable if you want any chance at their HD feeds, though after switching to DirecTV I can't see why I'd ever want cable again. And the price difference between the OTA and sat/OTA boxes is pretty minimal. But either way the HD signals either from satellite or from the digital off the air feeds are so good it's amazing.

Alamp,

Thank you for clearing that up for me. It was my understanding from browsing the threads that comcast digital cable here did not have HD content. Am I misinformed?

That is true. Comcast does not currently have HD here in the area. They were scheduled to add it "this summer" but we got pushed way down the list supposedly.

ron

Larz, you wouldn't connect your cable to your OTA STB - you'd connect an antenna there. Then you'd run component cables from that box to your TV. Your cable can go on a separate input on the TV. That's how mine's set up.

The only downside is you have to change cable channels on the TV and OTA channels on the STB, and this really has to be done on two separate remotes (since only the TV remote will allow you to select the input). You might be able to get a 3rd-party remote that will do it all, but I haven't found one yet.

Bdb,

A lot of the HD receivers will integrate the listings from cable, satellite and OTA into one channel list. Then you just select the channel from the STB and it chooses which signal. That's how my Toshiba DST-3000 (aka Hughes E86) works, and I've verified that the Sony HD200 and the Samsung 160 also work that way. Makes it really convienent.

True, you can integrate everything in the STB, but that'd double the price. It'd either have to be the Samsung T165 or a DirecTV receiver.

Originally posted by bdb
True, you can integrate everything in the STB, but that'd double the price. It'd either have to be the Samsung T165 or a DirecTV receiver.

So, if I'm hearing this right, I can combine cable into an STB (Sony or Sammy) input and recieve OTA HD?

I saw the Sony HD200 at CC today, but they told me it was for Direct TV.

Being new, I find this all very confusing still. Thanks for all the your feed-back. I'm trying to get the picture in my head. :D

I spent 8 months learning and reading B4 I bought the TV. I hope it doesn't take that long to figure this out. :rolleyes:

I'm not in a great hurry so I'll take my time and ask a few questions and read along the way.

Great fourm & info here. Thanks,

Larz

I emailed KATU yesterday and got this reply today from Alan Batdorf about the audio drop outs we have been experiencing. Hope he is successful and repairing. Let's keep our fingers crossed....

Steve


Steve,

I believe we are experiencing a microwave link problem between our Studio
and HD transmitter site. It seems to be more noticeable in the audio than
video, but I believe the video is also freezing for perhaps a frame. I have
a fiber optic circuit going in, hopefully this weekend, to bypass the
microwave link and hopefully cure the problem. If it does, then I can pull
the microwave out of service and fix it, without loss of HD service.

Thank you for watching.

Alan
alanb@katu.com

Just a quick note, WB KWBP-DT is on the air on channel 33.

Charlie,

Thanks for the heads up!

Cris

Does anyone think that maybe KOIN is using the same microwave link that KATU will be swapping out? I am experiencing the same hiccups on KOIN's US Open tennis coverage that frustrated me watching MNF this week (or am I alone?).

Thanks to Steve for getting us the equipment report from KATU. Good to know someone there cares, so thanks to Alan Batdorf, too! Hopefully, everything will be fixed and working properly by next Thursday's MNF opener.

Bob

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Does anyone think that maybe KOIN is using the same microwave link that KATU will be swapping out? I am experiencing the same hiccups on KOIN's US Open tennis coverage that frustrated me watching MNF this week (or am I alone?).

Thanks to Steve for getting us the equipment report from KATU. Good to know someone there cares, so thanks to Alan Batdorf, too! Hopefully, everything will be fixed and working properly by next Thursday's MNF opener.

Bob I, for one, am not experiencing ANY audio dropouts on KOIN-DT 1, and am mightly pleased about that.

Saturday's US Open tennis coverage was really terrific, both audio and video. I wondered at the improved video on KOIN and later noticed that both multi-casting parasites were off (DT-2 is the standard def digital channel, and it was empty, and the DT-3 traffic cam was completely gone).

Sunday morning I noticed the pixelization was back, and I saw that DT-2 was back on. About 10:45 or so I realized I was enjoying the picture a lot more, so I checked DT-2 and sure enough it was empty again.

Summary: Thanks for turning off the multi-casting channels! Please turn 'em off permanently; it makes a big difference.

Does the new WB channel look rather "dirty"? Like it's being taken off an analog signal. Don't mean to complain, it's just that the signal looks rather bad for a digital channel.

KOIN works great for me, too. I watched some of the HD tennis this morning, and the signal was flawless.

I was told the WB would be 1080i but right now it's not. I have my 6000 set for "gray bar" for SD channels and WB right now has gray bars. They're probably still testing.

I hope KATU is fixed for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang tonight, I have invited the family next door over to watch it and they have never seen HD before so I hope it behaves.

Karl, I built myself a DYI screen this weekend. It's 96x54 and looks fabulous. I haven't got the frame around the screen yet because I'm undecided on what I want yet.

If I'd check my mail more often, here's a note I got from Pat regarding WB, he say's I can share it:

In case you haven't noticed, KWBP-DT is on the air on channel 33. We had it
on for about 1 1/2 hours on Wednesday afternoon for some preliminary
testing. Yesterday about 12:30 it went back on and should be on the air
permanently from this point on except for some times when we are doing
testing and/or reconfiguration.

We are currently broadcasting just an SD feed taken directly from our analog
microwave signal to Sylvan. We have a static PSIP and nothing more.

All of the equipment to convert to true 1080i HD broadcasting has been
ordered and has started coming in. When we get everything installed, we will
have two streams in our signal. 33-0 will be the 1080i feed all the time and
33-1 will be an SD feed. Both will be our normal programming 24/7/365. I
expect to have this new equipment installed within the next month.

When the WB network feeds us a true 1080i signal, we will pull it off
satellite and feed it directly to the HD encoder for the best possible
signal quality. All other times, we will be running our control room feed
through an upconverter to make it 1080i. We are making several significant
upgrades in our control room which will also improve the video quality so
this should help on the HD feed all the time.

Feel free to share this information through the Portland DTV user group.

Pat Shearer, CSTE
Chief Engineer
KWBP-TV channel 32 analog
KWBP-DT channel 33 digital

Originally posted by Marissadad

Karl, I built myself a DYI screen this weekend. It's 96x54 and looks fabulous. I haven't got the frame around the screen yet because I'm undecided on what I want yet.

What projector are you using?

Karl, I borrow an InFocus DL 650 from work. It's a DLP XGA business presentation PJ. I bring it home on the weekends or during the week if there is something special I want to watch (can you say Monday Night Football?) Here's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=297025) my post about the screen.

I built my screen with the Sanyo PLV-Z2 in mind. This looks like an awesome machine. Here's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=276907) the thread running about this new marvel. Quick specs: 1280x720, 1200 CR ratio, 700 lumens, iris adjustment, lens shift all for under $2k. Unbelievable, it should be unveiled at this weeks CEDIA.

Sunday morning I noticed the pixelization was back, and I saw that DT-2 was back on. About 10:45 or so I realized I was enjoying the picture a lot more, so I checked DT-2 and sure enough it was empty again.Somebody switched it right about 10:00. I was drinking coffee, reading the paper and watching the tennis and also found the PQ to be lacking. Then the screen went blank for about a second and popped back up with the nice crisp picture with no pixelation. For me at least, the reduced bandwidth from the multicasting also seemed to be affecting the resolution as the pic was a bit less sharp before the switch (along with the pixelation of course). Looked really good after the switch.

It's good news to hear KATU may actually fix their equipment. I hope that is in fact the culprit though...

Also good to hear that WB is up. It's kind of a downer though that they are planning on going down the same multicasting path as KOIN and KGW. How can we get these stations to understand just how much of a difference it makes?

ron

Originally posted by Marissadad

I hope KATU is fixed for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang tonight, I have invited the family next door over to watch it and they have never seen HD before so I hope it behaves.


Marissadad,

How was Chitty Chitty Bang Bang? I live down in Albany, and tend to get the Eugene stations better. It showed up OK with almost no hiccups. Just wondering since I do get hiccups from the Portland stations, but am not sure if it is my antenna or the Portland feeds.

On my TV, Chitty Chitty was not the best to show off HD. It was very good, but seemed to be shot or transferred with a "soft focus". In contrast, I watched the beginning of "Any Given Sunday" on Monday, and it was shot clear and crisp.

Shawn

Shawn, the breakups were not as bad as they have been but were still there. They were less severe and did not disrupt the viewing experience as bad as before. I agree the picture was very soft. My neighbors copped out and didn't show up, but the Dad did come over yesterday and I showed him the KGW demo loop on my new screen and he was blown away. I am having a Football showing Thursday night for the neighborhood, should be fun.

Any Given Sunday was nice. This is the first time I have really felt the LFE on KATU, it really added some impact to the tackles. Did you notice how soft the shots of Cameron Diaz were? She has really bad skin and they always soften her. In contrast, the closeups of Dennis Quaid were incredible, you could see every pore on his face.

something was different tonight on KATU, "almost" no sound drop-outs, at least much less than usual, my AC-3 decoder light went on and off like crazy on some of the programs but no sound interruptions during those events. There were also endless video freezes for <1s.

1500P, please email Alan at KATU and let him know about audio/video dropouts. I received a reply from him on Tuesday and he said they did get the new optic line run so he wants feedback on what's happening around town.

Tonight I am hosting a block party for the opening of MNF to show off my new 96"x54" screen. It should be fun as most of the guys have not yet seen HD, I just hope KATU is stable for the game.

Was hoping to see the MNF pre-game concert but am getting the KATU news instead. I have been getting steady audio but there are picture freezes every so often. Could it be my Zenith HDV 420? My signal on KGW 8-1 for their HD loop is perfect. I will email Alan.

Bob

I'm seeing some momentary pauses every now and then, but nothing even close to what I was seeing a few days ago. They look different, too - not the "missed a video frame but the audio was fine" thing, but more like distortion between me and the tower. I may have been getting this before, but there was no way to notice it with frames being lost every two or three seconds.

BTW, the guy on the news said the "pre-game" is going to be after the game. Sounds like it wasn't very good, from what the East Coast guys are saying.

Lisa Guerrero's red eyes look like she had a few too many drinks last night. That's the downside of being on HD, I suppose. :) Got my HD, my kettle chips, and my Belgian beer; I'm a happy webfoot :).

I'm still getting audio dropouts every 10 to 30 seconds. There was hardly any audio for the first 5 minutes of the game and then it went into the breakups at 10 to 30 second intervals. Lost audio again after commercial break for a while. Also getting a slight video breakup. Disappointing.... I'm using a MyHD card into my RP. Have sent my Dish 6000 off to 169time to get it modified for fire-wire. Maybe it will handle the signal a little bit better when it comes back. Was hoping it would be fixed for the game.

Anyone else still experiencing the usual audio/video breakups?

Steve

I had a few breakups (about every 2 or 3 minutes) and not very many audio problems. My signal was hovering around 72% on my Dish 6000.

All in all, I had a great time showing off HD football to my sister and brother-in-law from Missoula. I thought the production was superb. I have read on other threads about the complaints of SD camera shots from the end zone, graphics not in HD, etc. But I recognize we at the threshold and am enjoying being among the first to step through that door.

Yes, the video hiccups are annoying (I emailed Alan at KATU) but, hey, the rest of the product was wonderful! They were brief and intermittent enough to not affect the viewability of the game. I give praise to ABC and KATU for delivering a quality experience.

I have noted on other threads complaints about Edge Enhancement and how it detracts from the HD experience. Can someone tell me what EE is and how to spot it? I keep looking for something that I think it might be but haven't seen it yet. One person spoke about EE with respect to the lines on the tennis court while watching US Open on CBS, but I'll be darned if I can spot anything but clean, crisp lines.

Bob

My party was a smash! The neighbors were blown away by "In-Your-Face-Football". The video was very sharp, everyone commented on how you could see every little detail in the closeups.

I had frequent video glitches but very few audio dropouts. Most of the audio/video problems were related to the switch between commercials.

I'm using a Dish 6000, signal strength averages 98%. Overall I was very pleased with the production. Even a lot of the commercial upconverts looked really nice.

I watched most of the second half and am still experiencing both audio and video breakups as well. And I was going to watch CSI later but found KOIN is back to the audio stuttering again too :(. Watched a Clint Eastwood movie on HBOHD instead which looked pretty decent.

ron

I just received a note from Lee and he is watching KOIN with a Zenith STB and does not hear the stuttering audio that we are reporting. How many of you have a Zenith STB and if you do, are you hearing the audio stutter and what box do you have?

Thanks.

I don't experience audio stutter on my Dish 6000 on KOIN. My signal strength is around 85%

I use the Zenith HDV420 STB. I have been getting the same video stuttering (freezes) on KOIN's tennis broadcast this morning. When the signal is uninterrupted the PQ is magnificent. But the stuttering frequently breaks into a "No Signal" message from the STB, even during commercials, otherwise picture strength is excellent. Since I get this from multiple channels (although KGW seems not to have the problem) I am wondering if it IS the STB. I have a very clear shot on Bull Mtn. of the Sylvan towers so I don't think it is signal acquisition. I would think that if I was having trouble getting a signal I would not have the excellent PQ I have while it is steady. Is my logic flawed?

What are the other things that could cause my problem - multipathing, that causes ghosts, no? What else is there?

I emailed Alan B. at KATU last night regarding my MNF experience. I thought their whole production was excellent, as is KOIN's (CBS') today.

Marissadad (or Lee if you're reading), the stuttering I encountered last night during CSI was on a Hughes clone (mits). Video was fine. Seemed just like the same problem we had a while back which had been corrected.

ron

MNF was a complete disaster for me with video/audio hiccups so frequent that we gave up after the first quarter an watched the analog instead. What a pile of crap!

Haven't watched today's tennis yet (never watch anything live.)

I just got everything hooked up last night with a cheap Jensen indoor antenna. I'm running a Samsung T151 and I have to say that I was amazed with MNF. There was the occasional hiccup with the audio/video, but I figured it was due to only having 50% signal. But it looks like other people were seeing this also. Even though I'm not a big fan of either the Jets or Redskins, seeing the game in HD was well worth watching the game. After seeing the beautiful picture, I said to myself, "This is why I payed all this stinking money for this setup!"

I also had the audio dropping out on KOIN while I was watching CSI. It was like the audio was fluttering in and out. Again, I thought it was due to the poor signal, but I guess not. I really need to get an antenna on the roof so that I don't have to worry about "aligning" the 20 dollar one I have now every time I change the channel.

I've also heard that Comcast is getting ready to roll out HD. A friend of mine here at work has a brother-in-law who works for Comcast. I guess they gave him a setup to play with at home so that he can learn how to use it. He said that it's usually 2 or 3 months after he gets a demo system that they roll it out to the public. After reading what other cities are getting with their comcast HD, I'm not sure if it's worth getting right now. I have Dish Network without HD and the programming is a heck of a lot cheaper then Comcast.

Larry, what STB are you using? I had very few audio burps and very minor (though frequent) video burps, but it was far from what you experienced. Most of my video glitches did not involve the entire screen, just a few lines. Rarely did I have the entire picture break up.

captmorgan09, Dish is getting ready to roll out four HD channels and a $399 receiver! Anyway/also, the Samsung's typically don't read more than 50%.

Anyone seen the OPB DTV webpage (http://www.opb.org/schedule/dtv/ ) today? Looks like they're not going to fill in the details anymore. Quote:
September 7-15 - OPB's Digital TV schedule will be the same as our analog programming schedule. Bummer.

I'll be checking KOIN later today, but I've never had any problems on my HDV420.

I'm also using the Zenith HDV420 w/ an Indoor Antenna . MNF broadcast had the same issue as any of their last week HDB: very few audio drops but endless video freezes. I've sent a mail to Alan on Thu. before the game about it.

BTW, for all of you looking into installing an outdoor HD/UHF antenna: last weekend I tried the RadioShack New multi directional High-Definition Amplified Outdoor/Indoor TV Antenna ($69.99) (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2185)
but actually my receiver had no signal when ever the amplifier DC PS was hooked up, as soon as I disconnected the power plug to the amplifier, the signal came back but lower than my Phillips indoor amp. antenna.
Conclusion: got the hole package back to RS next day.

Anyone knows when WB will start their HDB ? on the local KWBP Web page (http://wb32tv.trb.com/entertainment/wbnetwork/stv-wb-hdtv-fall03.htmlstory) they "brag" about this fall HDTV schedule but want to see "action" and not just words.

Just a few comments on my experiences, and a note from Comcast:

I live on top of Cooper Mountain, and have found that an outdoor antenna with a rotator is necessary for good, reliable reception. With a fixed or indoor antenana, simply had too much problems with breakup or weak signal due to multipath problems.

No problems with the outdoor antenna, though I have to reposition a bit for one channel. No one position is good enough for ALL channels. I do have a water tower between me and the west hills; otherwise I am right on top with no other obstructions.

I actually read the letter that came with my cable bill this month (cable modem service), and they proudly state that they plan to roll out HD service in September. If true, would be nice, especially if they have a minimum level of service. Not likely to get more than that since I have DirecTV and several DTiVo and TiVo boxes in the house.

While HD is a novelty for me now, don't expect I will be spending too much time watching until an HD TiVo appears.

Mike

Larry, what STB are you using? I had very few audio burps and very minor (though frequent) video burps, but it was far from what you experienced. Most of my video glitches did not involve the entire screen, just a few lines. Rarely did I have the entire picture break up.

For this, I was using a HiPix card.

What I observe is video and audio skips. I do not see green blocks as would be the case with poor reception. I have a very good shot at Sylvan and have no muti-path or signal strength issues.

I finally got around to watching the Tennis recording from Friday morning. I experienced a few video and audio hiccups for perhaps the first half hour of what I recorded but then it was near perfect after that.

I'm gettin' kinda frustrated. This morning, trying to watch US Open tennis on 6-1, I got tired of the "No Signal" breaks and video hiccups, I finally switched to analog football. Periodically, I would tune back to 6-1 to see if the signal was back but it continued being intermittent. So we watched the end of Agassi's defeat on analog. Then to Duck football on Comcast 14 - thanks, Comcast, for giving us the ESPN-Plus feed! Back to 6-1 and still no signal. So I think, ah ha, maybe KOIN has done the ol' switcheroo, and what do you know? There's the tennis on 40-1. And THAT signal has been rock solid. None of the breaks I have been getting and reporting on both 6-1 and 2-1.

Can anyone give me the clues that tell me when to tune to which frequency? Will NFL be on 40-1 or 6-1 tomorrow? I guess one of my problems is when I have performed the auto station select on my Zenith HDV420, 40-1 is not broadcasting so it doesn't pick it up and store it. So when I surf, that number doesn't come up. I need to hard-code it.

I guess nobody promised me this would be easy.

Bob

ridgefamus,
I have the HDV420 as well and had no issues with the USO today, on my unit, KOIN is set to 40 ! not 6.
Try scanning again for all channels, if not make sure channel 40 is selected on the channels edit page.

ridgefamus,
KOIN is always physically on channel 40. The channel 6-1, 6-2, etc. are "virtual" (for lack of a better word). Your STB locates KOIN on channel 40 and the PSIP information tells it to call it channel 6 (To match KOINs analog channel number). So, 40-1 and 6-1 should be exactly the same thing. Not sure why you would have problems on one and not the other. Maybe the PSIP information is messed up somehow, and your STB ignores it if you tune to 40-1.

Yablo and R11:

Thanks for the good advice!

Bob

CBS Football was perfect for me yesterday, not a single burp or audio stutter. ABC is still having dropouts as I type (City Slickers). Alan says he is still tweaking the signal, so drop him a line.

1500P, see my post from Pat awhile back about WB, they are awaiting new equipment and are hoping for sometime this month to fire up the 1080i.

Same experience here. CBS was just about perfect.

City Slickers had a lot of audio and video breakups and missing frames. When it worked correctly it was very good though.

Originally posted by bdb
captmorgan09, Dish is getting ready to roll out four HD channels and a $399 receiver! Anyway/also, the Samsung's typically don't read more than 50%.




Where did you find the info on Dish and when are they rolling this new reciever out? Does it have a built in OTA reciever? If so, I'm just a bit ticked since I just spent 300 bucks on the OTA reciever I have now.

Greg

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298140

Press release is a few posts down from the top.

ron

Built in OTA and 8psk tuner. If your new receiver is less than 30 days old, take it back. Dish's won't be out till late October or November.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to get on the phone and ship this thing back. hundred bucks more for a dish with OTA, can't beat that!

MNF was nearly unwatchable again. Was getting dirty looks from my wife. Lip sync was completely wacked -- looked like a badly dubbed Godzilla movie.

Again, this is from a disk recording via my HiPix card (which I have had for 2-3 years). Jim P says his experience was not as bad so perhaps my system is less forgiving of a screwed-up ATSC stream that others.

Larry:

I've posted complaints about the hiccups I have been getting OTA via my Zenith 420 for both MNF and the US Open Tennis. OTA is all I have for now. I have been thinking it might be a bad chip in the 420 since so many others reported good reception. I've discounted antenna problems since when a signal is acquired, it is great! Just frequent stuttering of video and, sometimes, audio. Syncing is not a typical problem I have had, although Riverdance on OPB last Sat. night was unwatchable due to poor sync (and lousy SD transfer).

But I must say, my MNF experience last night was almost flawless. This is the steadiest that I have received anything from KOIN or KATU. So now I am thinking maybe there is a burn-in period for the Zenith and I don't have to take it back - yet. We'll see over the next few days/weeks. I still view this whole episode as an experiment, but it's just so hard to troubleshoot when the broadcasters admit they have transmission and equipment problems themselves. Guess we just have to "stay tuned."

Bob

Bob, your problem sounds like multipath interference - a great signal interrupted by momentary dropouts. Your antenna isn't pointed near cars or planes (or something reflective), is it?

A friend of mine recently got a receiver and the line of sight between him and the towers was right near a busy intersection in Beaverton. You could tell how busy the intersection was by how many dropouts he had! He fixed it by moving the antenna to the roof.

There was another fellow who fixed it by putting an attenuator on his antenna to keep it from picking up the weaker multipath (but he was VERY close to the towers).

MNF for me was horrible, probably as bad as Larry's was. Lots of video breakups, not many audio dropouts, but bad lip sync as well. I've been keeping Alan posted on my results everytime I watch ABC. I have a very strong signal (97% average) and all other digital channels are rock solid.

Larry: You think so? I have been under the impression multipathing results in ghosting; at least that's what I gathered from the antenna link found in other threads. I don't have cars or anything moving that might be in my line of sight. I am way up on Bull Mtn. and the only object between the Sylvan towers and my antenna is my neighbor's house, which is actually a bit lower in elevation than mine. Hmm, he has Hardyplank cement siding where mine is cedar - anything to that? The house below his is fully lower than my line of sight to the hills. I have to believe a few walls would not be a factor. BTW, I use an indoor Silver Sensor sitting right on top of the TV. Guess I could find a longer RG-6 and take it outside and see what happens.

Again, the signal last night for MNF was so much better than any I experienced in the month I have had the Zenith. Why sometimes and not others when nothing is moving? I read somewhere that night and day can be a factor. Just like receiving distant radio stations on clear nights.

Bob

Bob, multipath with analog will result in ghosting, but with digital there is no ghosting - it either works or it doesn't. If the multipath is dynamic, it'll work the majority of the time then suddenly drop for a moment. It can be worse when you're close to the towers and the signals are strong (just imagine what's going to happen when they bump up the power).

It doesn't sound like you're in a place where it should be a problem, though.

I have two different STB's one an RCA DTC-100 connected to an HD set downstairs, and another, a Zenith520 connected to a front projector in a movie room.

Last nights MNF football was almost flawless on the Z 520. Very rare audio and video hiccups. Had some friends over and they were astounded by the picture.

Downstairs the reception started out fine, but became progressively worse. Numerous freezes, loss of picture and pixelation. It became unwatchable and I turned to cable.

I live in West Kinn, down on the river, so no direct site to towers and lots of hills and trees. KATU is always the problematic as far as reception issues. Koin and Kgw seem to do much better even with the DTC-100

I don't know if this has been reported here yet, but according to Comcast we are due to receive HD cable broadcasts beginning on the 30th of this month. I am looking forward to subscribing!

I'm awaiting Comcast's announcement with skepticism. There are a lot of cities (many served by Comcast, from what I understand) that only get the local channels in HD, and even then they're sometimes overcompressed and look worse than OTA. Some cities don't even get all their locals.

It'd be great if they offer a decent HD package, but the odds don't seem very good.

So we are supposedly 20 days away from being able to get HD on Comcast and they are not saying anything? No advertising? How do they expect people to get behind this if it's kept a secret? I just checked the Comcast web site and of course it says absolutely nothing. Not even a "Coming soon - HDTV!" So far, I am the only person in my neighborhood that gets HDTV (via satellite). I can't in good conscience recommend that they buy Dish until they have their new receivers. So that leaves them with Direct TV. I know of at least 6 neighbors that own HD ready sets that would jump on the Comcast bandwagon if HD was offered on cable.

I hope the Comcasr announcement is accurate. I too have DTV, but choice is always good. It would be nice not to have the OTA issues with reception. If Comcast can deliver quality local channel HD that would be a big selling point for me.

It is interesting that a sent an e-mail about HD to comcast 3 days ago and got back a no timetable for Port HD response. Hopefully that is just an example of a clueless CSR answer.

Where do you get the real up to date PDX info?

My MNF reception was much improved this week. And the audio stuttering I got on KOIN last Thursday night has been fixed. Tennis looked very nice on Sunday.

I have a question for you guys. My Mitsubishi D* receiver started to develop the dreaded heat related problems last June when the warm weather began. Mitsubishi has actually offered to give me a $500 credit at Magnolia where I bought it. Now as the process has moved along they are saying they have just arranged to provide me a new replacement through the store (at no extra cost). Problem is, it's the Sammy 160...

Now is seems to me the Sammy has had a less than stellar track record. I know all the boxes have had issues but it seems like the Sammy has perhaps had more than it's share. Isn't this the box people have had PSIP and clock issues with here in PDX? Anyway, I feel confident I can swing a deal with Magnolia to get a different box if I throw in a little cash so I'm fishing for what you guys' experiences with the different boxes has been here in the Portland area. Any recommendations, warnings etc you might have would be welcomed. From all the reading I've done it looks like the new LG/Sony receivers should provide a good mix of features, reception and reliability maybe.

edit: If the local stations can't encode a decent stream many of the issues people have will be just as much of a problem for Comcast I think. My hope has been that the wider exposure will force the stations to upgrade their equipment at least.

ron

Originally posted by michael goldman
I hope the Comcast announcement is accurate. I too have DTV, but choice is always good. It would be nice not to have the OTA issues with reception. If Comcast can deliver quality local channel HD that would be a big selling point for me.

It is interesting that a sent an e-mail about HD to comcast 3 days ago and got back a no timetable for Port HD response. Hopefully that is just an example of a clueless CSR answer.

Where do you get the real up to date PDX info?

My cable bill said to expect HD sometime in September.

Granted, message is obscure, easily missed, and more so non-commital. Likely will not promote until:
- it is working
- CSRs are trained
- equipment is ready to deliver

Why generate excitement if you are not ready to fulfill.

Also, V1.0 of anything is seldom rewarding.

Mike

Originally posted by mmihalik


Why generate excitement if you are not ready to fulfill.

Mike

To keep people from jumping to Satellite?

To give local buyers an added incentive to purchase that "HDTV-ready" big screen they have been eyeing at Good Guys or Costco?

If I had just purchased an HD ready set and was thinking about dumping cable and going to DTV or DISH because of HD, I would stop dead on my tracks if I saw Ads, even if it just said "coming soon". Specially if I was looking at doling out a few hundred more to buy a HD capable sat receiver.
Maybe I am just looking at things from a very narrow perspective, but I am basing my comments from my conversations with neighbors and friends about the topic.

YMMV!

You guys do know that Comcast has an HD PVR in the wings too right? :)

ron

Originally posted by R11
You guys do know that Comcast has an HD PVR in the wings too right? :)

ron

Where can I get more info on this? Is that from the HDTV Hardware forum?

Originally posted by Karl Englebright
To keep people from jumping to Satellite?

To give local buyers an added incentive to purchase that "HDTV-ready" big screen they have been eyeing at Good Guys or Costco?

If I had just purchased an HD ready set and was thinking about dumping cable and going to DTV or DISH because of HD, I would stop dead on my tracks if I saw Ads, even if it just said "coming soon". Specially if I was looking at doling out a few hundred more to buy a HD capable sat receiver.
Maybe I am just looking at things from a very narrow perspective, but I am basing my comments from my conversations with neighbors and friends about the topic.

YMMV!

All good points, but since Comcast are not ready, why generate ill-will and confusion?

I enjoy this thread and will welcome any improvement development; cable will definitely improve the network HD situation, unless something special gets cooked up to provide NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, UPN, and Fox HD on the satellites - either DirecTV or Dish. But I won't hold my breath.

I have witheld purchase of satellite HD, because DVR will be essential for me. I have an HD tuner equipped Sony XBR, and haven't really spent much time viewing HD.

I am disappointed with how DirecTV (and Dish) have reduced the quality of their SD channels to squeeze in all the channels.

I am encouraged by the HD offerings on DirecTV, but not enough to subscribe.

I think the killer app will be when cable or satellite get HD capable DVR. Over on the TiVo forum, ther are some details appearing - like the 4 tuner box; 2 OTA tuners and 2 satellite tuners. Only thing missing is the SD tuners, but not a big problem.

I consider most of the people here on this forum to be on the bleeding edge and somewhat knowledgeable. Can't imagine Joe Sixpack dealing with HD the way things are today.

If someone were to want HD today, I'd suggest they wait unless they were satisfied with the limited offerings today, and the challenges of OTA reception. Joe Sixpack is not going to understand rabbit ears, funny antennas, mutipath, etc.

Yes, Comcast may be the only near term salvation, but even if it were available today, they would only resolve the multipath reception issues.

I hope they have an HD-n=only package.

Mike

Since some of you guys had nearly flawless reception for MNF and mine sucked, I guess I am going to blame multipath. KATU is the only channel I have an issue with. I have a farm of Hazelnut trees in my backyard and my antenna points right through them so I suspect with the rain we had the last few days that the trees are more of the cause than not. Any thoughts? Again, I have a flawless picture with all other stations except KATU.

Originally posted by mmihalik
Can't imagine Joe Sixpack dealing with HD the way things are today.

Mike

So true!

Ron: You know Zenith is a subsidiary of LG Electronics. I have read they are going to begin removing the Zenith brand name from HD products in favor of the LG mark. I didn't know they were partnering with Sony.

You ask about the dependability experience of receivers. That has been my dilemma. With the stations still trying to stabilize their output, how are we to determine where problems with reception originate? When it's good it's great! Personally, I have opted to experiment with OTA only while the rest of the guys shake out their issues of satellites, bandwidth and compression. I use a Zenith 420 into my Sony KP-46WT500.

Have you received the Magnolia mailer with the DirecTV offer for the SIRTS160, TERK 525 and installation for $450? At least D* is ambitious in corralling the part of the market not committed to Comcast (and they have been for months at CC and GG). When I spoke with a Comcast rep 2 weeks ago, he gave the "end of the year" timeline for HD. I said I was being tempted by the sat offers and they better accelerate their timetable or risk losing lots of HD adopters. I asked if there was a plan to promote its ultimate delivery and he said he was sure the sales/marketing people would be making a big splash at the appropriate time. So it's strange if we're 3 weeks away that there hasn't been more of an overt campaign.

Bob

Originally posted by Karl Englebright
Where can I get more info on this? Is that from the HDTV Hardware forum? There's some basic info on it here (broadband.motorola.com/catalog/product_documents/6200data_060403.pdf). Like all the other PVR products, looks like it will be a few months before it is deployed though. I believe they will charge a monthly fee for the added PVR service just like D* etc.

Bob, The current and upcoming D* Zenith and Sony boxes are essentially the same with different skins. Made by Zenith/LG. I think it's great news that Comcast is still in the HD hunt in PDX. It can only help. But I for one will believe it when I see it.

ron

I'm stuck with OTA, the podunk cable company in Woodburn doesn't even plan on providing broadband in the foreseeable future, let alone HD. People are dropping them like flies due to their outrageous rates and crappy service. Seems that about 1 in 3 homes in my neighborhood has a satellite dish.

As I said in a previous post, I have the RCA-100 and the ZEN 520. When used simultaneously the 520 gives perfect KATU reception, while the same KATU picture on the 100 is unwatchable.

I did speak to a distributor who reports that the ASTC tuner in the new LG/SONY STB will be the same as in the 520. Can't comment on the Samsung, but afriend who has one is not happy with reception issues, and his site should be better then mine, as I am in a mini valley down by the river.

By the way the hometheaterspot has the new SONY for 629 with free shipping on their group buy spot. Expected delivery is Mid Oct for whatever thats worth.

Thanks for the feedback Michael. I really am leaning toward the new Sony/LG units. Seems like the lesser of the evils at this point. I'm sure whatever I get I'll be happier because the E86 I have now is widely regarded as pretty much the worst performer from a reception standpoint. If I weren't so close in I'm sure I'd be having many more reception issues than I do now. I'm really hoping whatever new box I get improves the "fringe" problems I have when heavy winds blow the trees around behind my house. For the last two years I've been tempted to move the antenna out of the attic up to the roof but I really don't want to. Good heads up on the hometheaterspot GB too. I also see that OneCall (ww3.onecall.com/PID_21017.htm) also has the Sony 300 for the same price (but without the free shipping) through the end of the month. Unfortunately for me, I'm stuck with Magnolia due to the deal with Mitsubishi. I do think I may be able to use the other prices as leverage though ;). But really, it's all good to me as I've had the Mits box for almost two years now and the worst I'll get is a new Sammy for free.

ron

Ron
Actually the weekly special on the HTS are thru onecall, so basically you are getting the shipping free.

Just bought a new 48 inch Mits from Magnolia. They have good service and if the price is even comparable, I too would rather give them the business, as they are at least semi-local

By "semi-local" (regarding Magnolia), I'm assuming you mean ... owned by Best Buy?!?! Sorry ... couldn't resist.

I, too, called Comcast yesterday. Basically the same info. The CSR said that HD would be available early next month. I asked if there was a sign-up list and he said no. Apparently they will be getting more info out later this month. Of course, I agree with others and will believe all of this when I actually see it.

In response to a previous poster who worried that Comcast won't provide local channels in HD, I personally would be surprised. I'm pretty sure that Seattle Comcast customers are getting locals now, aren't they? Does anyone know how pricing works in Seattle? I'm hoping that I'll be able to just keep getting "lifeline" (locals) from Comcast for ~$12 + some additional cost (~$6?) for the HD box + some additional cost for the HD package (~$5 to $10?).

Given that this actually looks like it might happen soon, should we start a separate Portland Comcast HD thread?

Doesn't seem like there's really that much traffic here that we shouldn't just keep it all in one thread for now. At this point I kinda think everybody wants to know what's going on on all fronts in the PDX area anyway? I know I do :).

ron

Marshdom
I thought Magnolia was Seattle based?

Oh well what's the difference, even if they were local in Wash., Starbucks would eventually buy them anyway.

Good point, Ron. But at some point, I think it would make sense to have a separate thread for Comcast ... as I think it has become a huge separate thread in other cities (such as Seattle).

Michael - Magnolia was founded in Seattle but was bought by Best Buy a few years ago. But I do think that it is still run with a fair amount of independence.

I want Comcast HD yesterday!!!

should we start a separate Portland Comcast HD thread?

I'd vote no. I'm eager to learn what data rate Comcast will deliver. It’s been reported that other areas are only being served 11-12 Mb/s. If it’s any less than OTA, I won’t be much interested. Anybody heard datarates?

Dave

That's all KOIN does and they look ok except during really fast action. I've read elsewhere that the newer encoders they are coming out with can deliver at 12 Mb w/no loss of PQ.

Originally posted by dlarsen
I'd vote no. I'm eager to learn what data rate Comcast will deliver. It’s been reported that other areas are only being served 11-12 Mb/s. If it’s any less than OTA, I won’t be much interested. Anybody heard datarates?

Dave Dave, this post (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2658598#post2658598) from Ken H, the moderator in the HD Programming forum answers your question. The pertinent point:

"I have it from one of my reliable sources that Comcast corporate policy prohibits altering of HDTV signals in anyway that could affect signal integrity. In other words, they pass HDTV in the same quality they receive it."

BTW, some of us my disagree with you regarding the quality of the multicast-stunted HD feed from KOIN Marissadad :).

ron

Ron, I must retract my statement. Watching CSI last night I realized just how bad it is. Since I got my 110" screen I notice a lot more of the artifacting, whereas KGW looked very solid during ER.

Boy do I agree. I only hope as HD becomes more prevalent they will change their attitude on multicasting

It brings up a sad turn of events with this thread. That is the apparent refusal of Lee Wood to participate anymore. I don't know if he felt he was treated unfairly or what. I hope he understands that 99% of the participants always appreciated his work on behalf of HD. Even if we disagreed on issues such as multicasting we all had and have the same goals. If anyone has contact with him, I hope they can convey that message.

If I am incorrect and he is just busy, I will be happy to stand corrected

I will echo the feelings about Lee. I have always appreciated the work that Lee has done. It still amazes me that we have such direct contact with someone like him.

Micheal, I communicate often with Lee via email and he now has a HD receiver at home so he is aware of anything going on with their signal. Lee is a great guy to talk to and is always willing to look at any issues and correct them ASAP. I do miss his involvement in this forum and would like to see him give us feedback when necessary.

Last week when we were experiencing the audio stuttering, he did not on his STB. This I learned when I shot him an email about the stuttering. It would be nice to have him participating here so we could find out why the stuttering occurred and which boxes were affected by it.

Am I alone? I cannot get any signal from KATU-HD for the past hour, KGW-HD is sound-garbled, and the only decent programs are from KOIN and OPB. JAG (KOIN) looks real good for now and CSI was pretty good. I have taken the advice from others and added beaucoup attenuators on my antenna line. Seems to work for KOIN but I am not sure what is happening with the others. I am trying to troubleshoot my reception problems but can't do it in the dark. Anyone else having problems with KGW or KATU?

Bob

KATU was down completely for a while but back up with the usual drop outs. Haven't noticed any problems with KGW.

A couple things I did notice over the weekend though. My receiver doesn't tell me what it's getting but unless my eyes have deceived me I saw what I'm guessing are 720p upconverts on Fox (30-2). Also something I don't recall seeing previously, 1080i 4x3 upconverts from OPB as well.

ron

Did anyone else lose sound fairly frequently on Monday Night Football yesterday?

I didn't loose sound but I did have frequent picture breakups during the game. There were a couple of times where the picture completely broke up and came back about 5 seconds later. The rest of the times they were "minor" ones.

Originally posted by Karl Englebright
I didn't lose sound but I did have frequent picture breakups during the game. There were a couple of times where the picture completely broke up and came back about 5 seconds later. The rest of the times they were "minor" ones. Same here. The breakups bothered my wife enough that we switched to standard def for most of the last quarter. The frequency of breakups was, let's say, one every 10 seconds. They are brief, often localized to 1/4 of the picture, sometimes the whole picture, very often introducing long horizontal or vertical lines/blocks.

Signal strength is identical to that for KOIN (50% on my Samsumg SIR T165). KOIN doesn't break up unless it is starved for bandwidth, and then the "breakups" are little tiny pixels that make the picture fuzzy in a blocky kind of way. Much different than the KATU breakups.

I'll try to remember to snap a picture of these breakups next MNF; it shouldn't be that difficult... :rolleyes:

Jim,

Thanks for expanding on this. Exactly what I was experiencing.

Originally posted by bdb
Did anyone else lose sound fairly frequently on Monday Night Football yesterday?

I noticed it over the weekend when I tried to watch college football, so I emailed them yesterday before MNF and this is what they said:

"We are having some problems with our HD transmitter, so the audio break-ups and freeze frames are real. We are limping along on part of our transmitter while the rest of it has been sent back to the manufacturer for evaluation.

I hope to have better news soon.."

I checked in to the game when I got home from work and saw the usual video breakups as well. Much less frequent than every 10 seconds for me though. Saw them a little later at The Good Guys by Washington Square too (seemed pretty infrequent there as well although I wasn't really paying close attention). Audio seemed ok. The actual PQ seemed a little better than some of the earlier MNF games I've seen. Maybe the crew ABC is using is getting things dialed in (or maybe it was a different crew/truck altogether).

I checked in with Ed Williams at KPTV/KPDX yesterday to see what was up with their DTV. He assured me that they still have not done any upconverting so I am at a loss to explain what I saw over the weekend. It was some 4x3 programming on ED channel 30-2 and looked very clear to me. I haven't really watched any FOX programming since the season ended on 24 last spring but I thought all they had been showing on that channel was the widescreen 480p stuff (and then the test pattern the rest of the time).

At any rate, he also said that just last Friday they got a new (used) DTV encoder for KPDX-DT and they hope to have channel 48 back on line some time later this week for UPN. In regards to the announced FOX HD plans for next fall, he said they are looking at it now and will be rebuilding their plant (again) next summer and integrating an HD switching system to accommodate that. It sounded like that would also likely encompass the announced UPN HD movement that is slated for the same time frame too. Lets hope they can find a way to dig deep enough to afford some decent equipment.

ron

For anyone interested-

I've been picking up UPN on analog 49-0 and digital 49-1 SD on my sir-t165. Great pq on 49-1 but content doesn't suit me.

YMMV

Lew

UPN is finally broadcasting digital again? Good, I am really getting tired of watching Enterprise via Dish, they compress it so bad their faces move all over the place, too funny.

On a brighter note, how many Dish people signed up for the HD package? I did and it is awesome!!!! The cool thing is, all the new channels come off the 110 satellite. It took me 5 calls to Dish before I finally got them turned on, so the process was not a pretty one.

Well, I'm working on the wife to let me tack on another $10/mo on our Sat bill. She already complains about our current bill!

Is it true that you can get them to send you the QPSK module for free if you sign up for 1 year to the HD package? I have the OTA module but never bothered to get the other one.

The the Digital UPN signal reminds me of how local channels used to look when I subscribed to cable, kind of grainy and noisy. It doesn't look all that great, but at least they have one and hopefully will get it upgraded in the not-to-distant future.

That's what I've heard, plus if you sign up for a year and prepay, you get one month free! Not a bad deal. I dropped to the AT50/Locals/HDPackage and that is more than enough.

After I get the SuperDish and do my 1 year commitment, I will probably drop the AT50. There is just too much good HD on now and I haven't turned on my old 27" set in 2 weeks.

Letter received with my Comcast bill says, "In September, we will launch high-definition television (HDTV) with local broadcast channels - something our satellite competitors do not offer...." There is no talk of futher programming for the future, either later this month or by end of year, as we have been told in our calls to Comcast sales and as I have read in this thread. There is no offer/directions in the letter for follow-up to get the "new" service added.

So I called and they have very little info at this time. A training session is scheduled for the 30th for reps to be brought up to speed. The rep I spoke with said an additional box might cost about $5/month, but wasn't certain. She said when they are ready to offer it there would be further information made available to subs. Also wasn't sure if programming would carry an added cost. I asked about additional programming such as ESPN-HD and there is no information at this time.

Bob

I had a comcast tech come out Tues to fix what the auditors screwed-up on Mon. I questioned him about the HD rollout and he was more than happy to spill what he knew after seeing my plasma. He said they had a meeting last week and the date is supposedly going to be 10/8. He said all the locals except KOIN were on board as of tues. ESPN is on board and he thought for no extra charge. He said he believes comcast might not be charging for the first couple of months till the bugs are out. He was pretty sure it's the 5100 box, however, the boxes were not there yet last week except for the demo box at the meeting. That's about all he knew.

Lew

Karl Englebright-

49.1 comes in very clear for me. 32.1 is very grainy. I think that's WB, but I'm not sure.

Lew

Oops! Yes, you are correct. It's WB on 32.1 that is grainy.

Remember guys, that WB on 32.1 is a pass-through of their Analog signal until they get all of their HD equipment online. As of the date they fired up the digital transmitter, they were still waiting for some key HD pieces of equipment to arrive. Pat is hopeful it would be this month.

They already got 49-1 up then. That's good news. I guess Ed wasn't kidding when he told me "later this week". Does it look better than it used to? On my receiver it used to look like how Marissadad described the E* feed with the moving faces. Things within the picture would kind of shift about.

ron

Just wanted to say hello and thanks to everyone, just got my HDTV and the info here has really helped.

BTW... Has anyone had an ISF calibration done? Thoughts? Any local techs to recommend? Joe @ Sharper Video is the only one I have heard of.

Chuck

On another local OTA topic, does anyone know why KGW would broadcast on their HD 8-1 channel a letterbox show (West Wing) without using the whole screen? It's not like they do that on other shows, or was West Wing not HD last year?

my Zenith HDV420 detected UPN on channel 48 for some reason.
thanks for the info.

The West Wing has not been done in HD yet. It was the network upconvert passed by KGW that you were seeing. HD West Wing should debut next week with the season premier though!

ron

Chuck, go to this (http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm) page and put in Oregon, it will give you a list of ISF certified shops.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

I'm just watching Matrix on ABC and the breaks in the sound are extremely long and multiple. This is the worst I've seen/heard on ABC till now.

Well, I just ordered the HD package from Dish and they are sending me the 8PSK module for free for paying the year's subscription up front. I'm looking forward to finally watching HDNet and Discovery Channel! Hopefully ESPN will start showing more HD material...

1500p, I had very few breakups during Threat Matrix. The first 5 minutes were pretty bad but during the rest of the show I just had periodic video glitches in the middle of the picture. Overall, it was much better for me than it has been lately.

BTW, I really enjoyed the show, I will keep watching it.

Congrats, Karl. One of the Oregon games is being carried by HDNET tomorrow in HD. I won't be able to watch it because I am going to be experiencing the ultimate HD/surround sound event of the year: The Hillboro Air show!

Originally posted by Marissadad
1500p, I had very few breakups during Threat Matrix. The first 5 minutes were pretty bad but during the rest of the show I just had periodic video glitches in the middle of the picture. Overall, it was much better for me than it has been lately.
Yes, my experience was the same here in Beaverton.

BTW, I really enjoyed the show, I will keep watching it. I hoped it would be as riveting as "24" or "Alias", but "Threat Matrix" seems way to earnest and derivative. I'll give it a few more episodes though. They obviously put a lot of effort into it.

I hope they hire a technical consultant, though: that scene where they "enhance" video surveillance footage to reveal people behind those removed from the video was just ludicrous. :rolleyes:

And if they make use of Echelon as a plot device the way Star Trek made the transporter and other techno-babble the solution to all problems, I won't stick around for very long.

Originally posted by ridgefamus
Letter received with my Comcast bill says, "In September, we will launch high-definition television (HDTV) with local broadcast channels - something our satellite competitors do not offer...."

Bob


Had the same notice in my bill and I called them. Here is the info I was given. Exact date not set, but tentatively around 10/10, He said to call back around 10/8 they should have all the info. HD channels on board at this time for the initial launch: ABC, NBC, PBS, ESPN, HBO, Showtime, and a PPV Movie channel. Still negotiating with CBS and others. Monthly cost is the regular Digital Cable subscription rate plus $5.00 for the HD Box. Installation cost is unknown at this time.

I currently have E*, but not HD. I've been chasing my tail, trying to decide what to do about HD. I was thinking of getting an OTA STB, because I didn't want to spend the $650 for the 6000 E* receiver with OTA, but now the 6000 has been reduced to $350, however the new E* 811 will be out in another month or so for $400. Then to complicate things Comcast is now going to offer HD.

Looks like with E* I could get more channels initially, and I can get the locals OTA with an antenna, but I can get Comcast without putting out $300-400 for a HD receiver. Decisions, Decisions.

Bullfrog,
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of display do you have?

I have a Panasonic PT-L300U projector currently and used to have a Mitsubishi 55805 (3 yo model). Neither of these have HDCP compliant interfaces (the mits doesn't even have DVI). If I didn't have it already, I would be jumping all over the Dish 6000 because "downrezzing" capabilities were not built into the box. As a consequence, you will be getting a full HD (1080i or 720p) signal out of it if you are connecting to an RGB or component port on your display.

Of course, if you have a HDCP compliant DVI interface, never mind... :)

Karl,

I have an Infocus X1 projector, so I would be connecting thru RGB. Not sure I followed the benefit of not having "downrezzing" capabilities. Would you mind educating me on that?

If anyone is interested, Ecost.com has refurbed JVC 30K DVHS units for $299. I just oredered one and they said there were 2 remaining prior to my order, but according to the HD Recorders Forum section, they keep getting more in. Free shipping, too.

You must have a Firewire output to record in HD to this box. I'm going to get a MYHD card and a firewire card so I can start archiving some local HD. I sure hope Dish enables the firewire on the 811.

As I understand it, most new HD receivers have been designed with the ability to limit the resolution of the analog outputs if the content provider wants to. It doesn't mean that they will actually implement it or that they will do it all the time, but the ability to do that is there. This means that if they wanted to (and you were only connecting via RGB) they could limit the resolution to say, 480i instead of the original 1080i or 720p. Only an HDCP compliant connection would get the full resolution.

According to several posts on AVS as well as the dbstalk forum, the 6000 was not designed this way and the HD analog output is always either 720p or 1080i. So, if you are connected via RGB, your projector will always gets the original resolution that is sent by the content provider.

Now, how much difference a "downrezzed" signal makes on projectors with lower resolution like yours and mine remains to be seen. But as far as I am concerned, I want the best possible signal!

Thanks for educat'n me, Karl.

The new word over on the Dish Network HD thread on the HDTV hardware forum is that E* is now going to include the 8vsb OTA tuner module with the 6000 all for $199. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2694434#post2694434. Guess that makes my decision for me. Don't think I can pass that up. Guess I better start looking for an antenna.

The Oregon State v. Boise State game on HDNet tonight had fantastic PQ. Hope more games are coming.

I agree TMBUTCH, I am watching it today.

Does anyone know which games FOX has in widescreen? I thought they were going to broadcast 2 games/weekend and I have yet to see one. The Seattle game really look bad today, I tuned in the Analog channel on my 6000 and it looked better than the digital channel, how sad!

Has anyone else seen video glitches on HDNET? I was watching a Jazz show the other night and it was herky-jerky for the entire show. The soccer game this morning had some jerks about every 3 seconds and the Oregon game also has some jerks in it; like frame skips, not the players ;-).

I want to take advantage of the Dishnetwork offer for the 6000U with 8vsb module ($157.95 w/shipping). I have one question: How good of a receiver is the 6000 for OTA reception? I live in Hillsboro near Orenco.
Thanks

The 6000 does fine for OTA reception. I think of more importance will be the antenna you choose.

I live in the Rose City/Hollywood district, and get a consistent 80-95% signall strenght from all of the local OTA stations. I'm using a channel master roof-top antenna. It is mounted on a 2 ft mast and pretty much hugs the roof so it is not visible from the street or my yard.

Was KATU-DT off the air yesterday? I tried a number of times during the day to find a signal but was not successful. I was hoping to find that they were carrying the USA soccer match on the digital channel since they decided to show gardening on analog. (No, I wasn't seriously expecting that - but, you never know.)

Marissadad: I think FOX widescreen hasn't made it yet for games they are showing locally. The Emmy's were in widescreen last night. Looks better than how my Sony stretches analog but the PQ is no winner. Next week is a bye for the Seahawks and FOX has the doubleheader. Perhaps KPTV will be carrying one of those WS games for us here. And, since the Seahawks are 3-0, they will be a more attractive product for FOX to produce in WS (when they host an NFC team). I am presuming KPTV is favoring us with Seahawks games as a quasi-local team.

As 49er fan, I loved KOIN's HD coverage yesterday (but not the game outcome!). I wish CBS would spring for more HD cameras or choose to use what they have at either their SEC game of the week or at the NFL game. The switching from SD to HD drives me nuts.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. The ESPNHD game yesterday looked fabulous. My 7 yr old daughter just started playing soccer and I tuned in KATU and the soccer was not on so we watched the soccer game on HDNET at 11 am. KATU digital was on everytime I tried to tune it in.

Originally posted by JimProuty
Same here. The breakups bothered my wife enough that we switched to standard def for most of the last quarter. The frequency of breakups was, let's say, one every 10 seconds. They are brief, often localized to 1/4 of the picture, sometimes the whole picture, very often introducing long horizontal or vertical lines/blocks.

Signal strength is identical to that for KOIN (50% on my Samsumg SIR T165). KOIN doesn't break up unless it is starved for bandwidth, and then the "breakups" are little tiny pixels that make the picture fuzzy in a blocky kind of way. Much different than the KATU breakups.

I'll try to remember to snap a picture of these breakups next MNF; it shouldn't be that difficult... :rolleyes: Well, it was kinda difficult: even though the breakups occur every 10 or 20 seconds, they're gone really quick even when they fill the screen.

I initially tried to click the shutter when the breakups happened, but they were gone when the picture was taken.

Then I just ran the camera in continuous mode (I took about 400 pictures) and I only captured 3 quite visible breakups!

I put a small web page here:

http://igorianchant.home.comcast.net/KATUDTMNF/MNF23SEP2003.html

to show the kind of HTDV we see from KATU-DT these days.

It used to be so much better :(

I just entered the HD world. I received a MyHD 120 this past weekend and have been watching it on my computer. I don't have an HD monitor *yet*. I am pretty impressed with what I've seen so far. KOIN and KGW have been great. UPN and WB look like lame analog stations, which from what I can remember, will be 'fixed' sometime soon. I have trouble with KATU. I'm getting at least the same signal strength as KOIN and KGW, but keep getting picture glitches and sound dropouts.

I've been pretty pleased with being able to get a signal strength of about 70 with just a tiny antenna. The HD picture is pretty amazing. I have yet been able to get a signal from OPB, but I'll eventually get a real antenna and I'll hopefully get a signal then.

I'm glad/sad to see others are having trouble with KATU, and its not just me.

Rob

I recently ordered the Dish HD package, and the 6000 receiver for $199.00 including the 8vsb OTA module. Installation is tomorrow.

Now, I've got buyers remorse, reading about some of the problems with the OTA stations and with the announcements regarding Comcast providing HD soon, I'm second guessing my decision.

Wonder if the cable delivery of the Local HD stations will be more reliable than the OTA delivery?

Sounds like I'll get more channels initially with Dish, but there are threads in the HDTV Programming forum that indicate Comcast will be coming out with 3 additional channels.

Wonder if the cable delivery of the Local HD stations will be more reliable than the OTA delivery?The vast majority of the problems people complain about are not reception issues, but rather encoder related problems at the stations. I don't profess to be an expert on these things (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but I believe Comcast will receive the same feed we are getting off air now. If that is the case then I've been hoping all along that by having Comcast carry the HD channels it should put some pressure on the stations to get their HD houses in order. It's one thing to put off a few of us geeky HD nuts who are willing to futz around with antennas to pursue our obsessions. But once people begin to bitch to Comcast about "their" HD channels being *ucked up, a much larger (and paying) voice will be complaining to the local stations. Loudly I'd imagine :). At least that's how I've been imagining it in my head for the last two years anyway. Tell all your friends to sign up for Comcast HD ASAP!! And tell them not to be bashful about complaining about the quality too :D

ron

Bullfrog, Dish is positioning themselves to carry up to 50 HD channels. Let's see a cable company do that. I will never go back to cable unless they can provide every single channel digital and not compressed to death at a price that beats Dish.

Originally posted by Marissadad
Bullfrog, Dish is positioning themselves to carry up to 50 HD channels. Let's see a cable company do that. I will never go back to cable unless they can provide every single channel digital and not compressed to death at a price that beats Dish.

Lets hope they meet that challenge. (Not that I like cable, just that we would get quality tv.)

Dish is positioning themselves to carry up to 50 HD channels

True, but Dish will never have HD locals - at least not until they launch a BUNCH of new satellites.

Thanks for the feedback.

Good to hear that Dish is positioned for expanding their HD capabilities. I guess it's kind of too late to change my mind now.

I'm not concerned about the locals. I have been doing fine receiving the OTA analog channels with an indoor antenna. (why pay Dish when I can get them for free). I expect I can HD OTA reception just as well, so Dish not carrying them is not a issue for me. I realize others may not be so lucky in regards to OTA reception.

However, I am planning to install a better outdoor directional antenna. I saw a Channel Master 3016 antenna at Lowe's. I'm thinking I may try an attic mount, rather than on the roof, although I understand it can reduce your reception. Anyone have experience with this antenna or have any other suggestions.

Originally posted by Marissadad
Dish is positioning themselves to carry up to 50 HD channels. Let's see a cable company do that.
If cable companies wanted to they could easily match that number. I mean, if they ever phase out their analog channels they could deliver something like 200 full 19.2Mbs HD channels. And, they have no problems with providing locals. So, if it comes down to a channel capacity war, cable will win hands down. Now if the could just get their prices down :rolleyes:

Received an email this morning from Alan Batdorf at KATU. He said they are installing a "fix" this morning to the "glitch" problems we have been reporting. He is hoping to have a much-imporved signal out by noon today. Let's keep our fingers crossed. And thanks to Alan for being responsive and caring.

Bob

A heads up from KATU, Alan emailed me and said he thinks they have a fix and it should be implemented by this afternoon (Wednesday).

Yes, Alan! Much appreciated...

Hey, I got an email from Alan at KATU and... j/k :D. This is very good news. Let's hope it "takes". Just think, a semi-stable big three. Funtioning WS from Fox and and an actual picture for UPN. OPB looks to be doing OK. WB up and awaiting HD equipment soon. All I can say is I'm knocking on wood. Now, about that multicasting....

ron

All I can say is I'm knocking on wood. Now, about that multicasting....
Is that Lee Wood you are knocking on? ;-) about multicasting?

Posted this in the HDTV Hardware forum, but then I thought I would try here since you folks are familiar with OTA reception in Portland area. I live in the NorthEast edge of Tigard.

Got my dish 6000 installed today with the 8vsb OTA module.

Good News is I got the DISH HD package and it looks awsome.

Bad News is I'm not getting any OTA channels.

I have a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF Antenna. I am 5 miles from the towers but I can't actually see the towers from my house due to some small rolling hills. I planned to install in the attic, but I didn't have time to get that setup before the installers came so I just temporarily attached it to my deck on the second floor of my house. Now I know that isn't an ideal setup but I'm getting 0% signal, and I would think if I just had it sitting on the ground I would get something. Also I am getting all the analog channels just fine.

The installers say it's my antenna. They told their boss exactly what antenna I had and he said 'good luck getting HD on that antenna' that I needed a 'High Definition antenna', one of those 'hamburger grill' antennas. Which I eventually deciphered as a double bow tie, and I've read that those are good, but I want the VHF as well and I've read that a number of people have had success with the 3016. So they say it's my antenna, I say it's the 8vsb or receiver. Well they don't have another 8vsb or 6000 with them, so I should try the 'hamburger grill' and if that don't work then they will come back out and swap the hardware. I think that is a bunch of malarky.

Anyway, I'm going to get the other antenna just to prove them so I can get them to come back out and fix this.

Shouldn't I be getting some kind of signal strength even if I've just got a coat thanger?

Thanks,

Don

I have a VHF/UHF antenna in my attic that receives KOIN-DT HDTV just fine!

The antenna is about 6 feet long, 4 feet wide.

I got it a long time ago, and don't remember the brand, except that it didn't cost more than about $40...

I'm in SW Beaverton, not with line-of-sight to the towers (low hills block my view).

Hi Don,

Your installers and his boss are full of it.

I'm down in Albany, Oregon (below Salem), about 70 miles from the Portland stations, and I'm pulling in Portland HDTV
with a Channel Master VHF/UHF antenna. I have the Channel Master 3671

http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/c1.htm

Which is similar to yours, but bigger since I'm much further away.

I can verify that I can pull in the OPB station from Corvallis (10 miles away) with NO ANTENNA!. That is,
just a strip of coax cable plugged into my HDTV receiver and I can get the Corvallis station.

It is not your antenna per se.

However, I'm not sure what the 'hills' you refer to may be doing. If they are small, I wouldn't think
it would be a problem.

Also, you have a directional antenna, so be sure you play around with pointing the antenna
in different directions.

At 5 miles away, you should be able to get HDTV with a pair of rabbit ears!

There is no need for any such thing as a "High Definition" antenna. The signals are broadcast
on the UHF spectrum, and a standard UHF antenna should work fine.

Call their bluff.

Shawn

Originally posted by Bullfrog
I have a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF Antenna. I am 5 miles from the towers but I can't actually see the towers from my house due to some small rolling hills. ... I just temporarily attached it to my deck on the second floor of my house.
The installers say it's my antenna. They told their boss exactly what antenna I had and he said 'good luck getting HD on that antenna' that I needed a 'High Definition antenna', one of those 'hamburger grill' antennas. Which I eventually deciphered as a double bow tie, and I've read that those are good, but I want the VHF as well and I've read that a number of people have had success with the 3016. So they say it's my antenna, I say it's the 8vsb or receiver. Well they don't have another 8vsb or 6000 with them, so I should try the 'hamburger grill' and if that don't work then they will come back out and swap the hardware. I think that is a bunch of malarky.
Don

Don,

I had to return my first OTA module as defective because it would not receive digital signals, only analog.

Cris

I agree with Shawn; I got decent signals (granted, not with a 6000) from 8 miles away with the 3010, which a far lamer antenna than the 3016. I got even better signals with the little indoor Silver Sensor. Actually, I got most of the signals with a wire loop! Absolutely, you should be getting SOMETHING, not zero on everything.