ryan94z -

I have not heard the Audax speakers, so I can't comment about them. But I have had the opportunity to build many, many great DIY designs and I can say without hesitation that you get a whole lot more speaker for your money by investing a little time and effort. You will save at least 1/2 and with more expensive designs about 2/3rds. Which means you would normally have to pay at least twice as much for comparable quality if you buy retail.

It is easy to see why. The retail store will not carry a speaker without a 40% margin. Reduce the parts cost further by subtracting the maufacturer's sales, marketing, labor, overhead and profit margin, and you are left with parts costs of around 10- 15% of the retail selling price.

The only issue you need to resolve is to investigate the quality of the DIY design itself. After all, anyone can publish a design. But the good ones are truly world-class. The drivers and crossover design are the most important considerations.

Judging by the overwhealming positive comments regarding the Audax speakers, I would say there is no question but that they would be superior.

- Jim

I can echo Jim's comments- but there's also the pride factor. It's a lot cooler to say "I built that" than I "bought that".

Phew... once again this invaluable thread has been saved from the deeper pages of the DIY forum, it belongs on front page always. I just bought a table saw, going to be getting a router and router table soon... then it'll be a tough decision on what first to build to get my feet wet in this DIY hobby that I've decided to make a start on... the AR.COM 6.5" 2 ways look very promising for so little, but then again so does the MBOW1's, the Northcreek Ikemo's also look promising and come with well regarded documentation concerning cabinet building and wiring in the kit, then there are those new kits by Adire audio using the Extremis midwoofers that are some of the first bookshelves that can do without a sub (20-25hz in room response... drool). Decisions decisions.

Jim I have admired your work from afar... I wish I could say I am striving to reach your level of craftsmanship, but even I know my limits and so won't. :)

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang
(Long live this thread)

I have 4 of the North Creek Ikemo's, and 2 Poseidon Subs...They are my entire 4.2 setup right now, until I build some of the higher end Northcreeks for front and centers, and put my current fronts in the rear.

They are VERY sweet and musical sounding, and one of their least expensive models. I have pics of them all posted earlier in this thread.

hdkhang -

Thanks for the kind words - greatly apprecaited. But since you are just starting out, I thought I would share how I started.

I never worked with wood until I built my first speakers. I had no idea what I was doing. But I liked the experience so much I just kept on doing it. I'm still learning new tricks and trying new techniques all the time. I try to push the envelope, so to speak, with every new project.

One thing I've learned is patience (something I formerly did no have a lot of). You really need to take each step slowly and carefully as little mistakes create a great deal of work farther down the chain. Don't rush any step (cutting. gluing. sanding, veneering or finishing) just to hear your speakers sooner. There will be a great deal of time to enjoy them once they are finished. And the better job you do, the more you will enjoy them.

The net has been a great learning tool as speaker sites and wood-working sites will provide quick answers to any question you have.

Just take your time and you will be surprised by what you can do. But be careful - you'll be hooked!

- Jim

@Jim

Thanks for sharing...

My father loves building things, it's where i get it from. We've built pretty much everything in our home apart from the original home itself :) The most recent being our home theatre room, before that it was the fish tank... I intend to take things slowly, I want to create something that is finished as best as I can, and beyond what I see in stores... at the moment in my mind I'm fascinated by a combination of piano black gloss finish for the front baffles and darkish timber veneering for the sides... I am trying to read up on as much as I can with regards to making a good piano gloss finish... I see there are many ways to achieve this, and I'll probably have to experiment on scrap wood to decide which has the best finish for the least effort and how durable are they... I don't want to put cloth grilles on the speakers as it would be a shame to hide it.

I was going to buy the router and router table addition this weekend, but my younger bro's computer died and so I have to buy him a new one first... I could buy 2-3 routers and router table additions for what it costs to get a nice new comp... but there's no rush, I'll get round to it, I have some other plans in mind to build (e.g. the best damned mini hifi in the world for my mum... but I estimate that to cost about 2000-3000 AUD so it'll wait til I'm more comfortable with building speaker cabinets...)

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

@moonhawk
Thanks for the reminder... I believe I bookmarked it somewhere or downloaded the pics to my comp. In fact I think your Ikemo's cabinets are the shape that I had initially wanted to attempt, but that would require more than just MDF and veneer and so now I'm not so sure, unless I can make routered edges on the sides and top and bottom and the veneer can wrap around them OK... not sure how that would look as it might look artificial, but then again a dark enough colour may be able to hide that... who knows... still speculation at this stage.

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

Have fun whatever you decide!

I did a lot of lurking and reading before I decided I wanted DIY speakers. I asked a few questions and made my decision. I decided to build a pair of MB20s. This was primarily due to WAF. So for about $100/spkr I gave it a shot. Holy cow! I was simply amazed. I could actually HEAR what they were saying without having the volume cranked up. My music never sounded better. I've never heard this kind of quality ever.

Ok, I admit I rushed it making my cabinets, and a few mistakes were made, but the cabinets were functional if not beautiful. Besides MDF is cheap.

Shortly thereafter I built a sub (another cheapy, Dayton 10" with 50watt amp) for about $60. Again, WAF, but it does the trick and rattles the dishes from across the house and in the basement. I also took my time making a cabinet for a center channel, another MB20, and slowly bought the components.

I now have friends that want to either build their own or have me do it they're so impressed with the results. I have to say I'm addicted and I'll be trying other designs soon. I don't think I'm quite ready for the Audax yet, money and I'd like to be able to do the cabs right, but maybe some MBOW1s.

I agree with Gyvven....this is the best thread going!

I'm a new member who has been lurking around for many months. Usually when I see threads that hit the 1000 or 1500 post level, I go ...ugh. But this has been a joy to read! What's been good is not only following people sharing their experiences constructing the same type of speakers, but watching them grow and build confidence, then seeing the final product! It's what makes this thread so great for me.

I'm a total tweaker, music freak, audio junkie, electronics geek, and have many years of woodworking experience, so when I saw this thread, I knew it was my destiny to someday tackle this as a project. I recently got my AE700 pj, so now it's time to get going on the audio. Now I just have to decide whether to go the Audax route or look at other MTM designs. I'm interested the Audax, GR Research MTMs, and Dayton IIIs. I do like the slightly larger Audax center, but I'm not sure I have room for it.

I really like the flat black finish that Joe put on his speakers, but I also love a finish I've been putting on furniture in my basement lately (a deep cherry red mahogany/rosewood in satin), so that will be a tough choice.

Anyway, I'd like to construct a 12" sub, 2 fronts, and a center channel by the end of the summer. I think I'll be posting my design selection, construction, and finishing progress here, so as to keep this thread alive, and attempt to give back to the place that really made me an AVS Forum member.

Thanks to Joe and so many others who inspired me, I'm hooked and I haven't even started!

- Peter
(Determined to keep this thread alive!)

I agree with Gyvven....this is the best thread going!

<snip>

Thanks to Joe and so many others who inspired me, I'm hooked and I haven't even started!

- Peter
(Determined to keep this thread alive!)

I think its time to show what I've been planning as the next "upgrade" to my theater.

A bit back in this thread you can find where Jeff Hovis and I both built similar 260 liter sonosubs. Both stood roughly 6 1/2 feet tall and used somewhat similar drivers. Now, our subwoofers are probably better than 99% of what most folks have ever heard, but I wanted a bit more... we often listen to movies at reference levels and at infrasonic frequencies (below 20 Hz) my current sub has a harder time keeping up with today's more aggressive DVD soundtracks. (I have to adjust the LFE channel level downward, otherwise, the sub sounds like it is bottoming out.)

I took advantage of the current closeout prices at Ascendant Audio and purchased a pair of Avalanche 18" drivers. Between them I should have over 13 liters of displacement. (current sub is about 2.5 liters displacement) In other words, when my project is complete I should have the equivalent of 5 of my current subwoofers.

Now, my wife is very understanding, but she might question 5 sonosubs in the room. She made the comment "can't you build it into the stage?" I answered, interesting idea... done right, nobody will know a monster subwoofer lives inside the stage.

So... here goes... my general idea is to make the stage bigger and use it as a pair of sealed enclosures, each somewhere around 13 cubic feet internal volume, one for each of the two drivers I ordered. I elected to used sealed enclosures rather than ported this time so as not to have to deal with any issues of the sub "unloading" below the tuning frequency.

Wish me luck... I purchased most of the wood yesterday and started on the curved front section. I plan on laminating several 1/4 inch plywood layers to form a 3/4 inch thick front surface.

Joe L.

Crude 3D rendering of proposed proscenium subwoofer
http://tinypic.com/72u7wg.jpg

Choots- If you need any help, have any questions, or want to hear the Audax speakers before you get them, I live in Minneapolis.

I think J.L. is almost planning to turn his entire house, into one big butt kicker with that sub setup... ;)

Wow JL...

Just a thought-(rare occurence here)- but you may want to go thicker than 3/4 on that puppy!

P.S.

You sure that thing's legal?.....:D

Wow JL...

Just a thought-(rare occurence here)- but you may want to go thicker than 3/4 on that puppy! I can always add another layer of wood, but the enclosure already will weigh over 250 lbs before I add the drivers. The drivers weigh 42 lbs each, so mounting them in the enclosure will bring the weight up to about 295 lbs.

I don't think I'll have much problems with the front of the proscenium/stage as it is circular in its shape and like the walls of my current sonosub, will not vibrate easily. I think have more to worry about with the flat surfaces. To help there, I'll use a lot of internal braces. (yup... more weight)

One of the reasons I am building it as a pair of sealed subs is that I can physically build the enclosure as two separate sealed enclosures, carry them down the basement stairs into the theater, and then bolt them together and mount the drivers. No way I'd be able to move it very far when fully assembled. I'm just not that strong.

I'll keep your suggestion in mind, but the entire stage has to fit beneath my screen so I need to plan carefully... I only have about three inches clearance as it is currently designed.

Joe L.

P.S.

You sure that thing's legal?.....:DYa know.. I guess it depends on how much power I apply to the drivers. From what I understand, I'll need to keep it under 500 watts per driver to keep them within their excursion limits in this large an enclosure :D :D

Nearest neighbor's house is over 800 feet away, so they are not an issue. Again, this project is not to get much louder bass, but to easily handle lower bass, below 15-20Hz. (I can't hear much below 20Hz, but it sure makes a difference if the sub handles it cleanly and you can definitely feel it)

Since I don't currently have a 1000 watt sub-amplifier I'm safe... for now... besides, if I do this right, nobody will suspect the monster that lives under the stage in my theater... until it wakes...

Joe L.

Cool, Joe

Keep us posted

Joe, I would agree that you will probably want more than 3/4" thickness on that thing. I know you say it is a curved surface, but don't think of it as curved and vibration free like the sonotube, since it is not a round tube that is a complete circle. I would go with at least one more thickness and brace it as well, since you are putting some drivers in there capable of blowing your seams apart. You remember what happened with your sono-sub when it blew up? :)

One more comment, make sure the area where the air will come out is large enough to handle the output of the driver.

Joe, I would agree that you will probably want more than 3/4" thickness on that thing. I know you say it is a curved surface, but don't think of it as curved and vibration free like the sonotube, since it is not a round tube that is a complete circle. I would go with at least one more thickness and brace it as well, since you are putting some drivers in there capable of blowing your seams apart. You remember what happened with your sono-sub when it blew up? :)

One more comment, make sure the area where the air will come out is large enough to handle the output of the driver.

Scott,

Good points. I'm not limited to the number of laminations on the front of the stage. I agree... everything must be fitted perfectly and braced well.

I know the plenum will be under stress, it must be very well braced and as big as I can make it to handle the output. As you said, I already had to rebuild my current sonosub end-cap when a Klingon battlecruiser blasted it. This one has to be even stronger.

Joe L.

Joe, the folks over at the "Cult" will definitely be interested and may be able to offer some input (just watch the drooling!!) on your design.

http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/index.htm

But Joe's design isn't an IB design, is it?! http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/images/smilies/sadlike.gif

But Joe's design isn't an IB design, is it?! http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/images/smilies/sadlike.gif

Doesn't look like it. I myself was going to suggest Joe may want to go that route for clean deep bass.

But he already bought the drivers and if they are not meant for IB, they may not work well in an open box. It would be a good idea to check the parameters though...

But he already bought the drivers and if they are not meant for IB, they may not work well in an open box. It would be a good idea to check the parameters though...
The Avalanche 18" drivers would work very well in an IB, and many are doing do... and if I ever move into a different house I could use the two in an IB. Currently the only adjacent space is upward, and that is our guest bedroom, bathroom, and main entrance hallway.

I don't think I need to ask my wife of her thoughts about using it as the adjacent IB space... I think I know the answer. Fortunatly, she is very understanding of the design goal of the new proscenium/stage sub enclosure and can't wait to watch "The Haunting" when the new sub is completed.

The enclosure size I'm using isn't close to IB size at 26^3 feet, so I've been hesitant about posting about my project on the "cult" message board since it really isn't an IB sub. I might politely ask if I could get their input... perhaps when I get home tonight.

Joe L.

Thanks BigguyZ...I definitely will want to chat with you about my direction and the Audax speakers. Getting a chance to hear them would be great! I'll take all the help I can get at this point!

Shall I PM you with my contact info?

omg JL, that design looks like it will shake your house loose from it's foundation!

FYI, you can get a flexible/bendable plywood that has it's grain running all in the same direction. You might want to take a look at that as an option to avoid having to build up so many layers to get the thickness you are looking for. I'm pretty sure it could handle the curve radius you've designed.

Can you tell us what application you used to do that 3D design?

omg JL, that design looks like it will shake your house loose from it's foundation!

FYI, you can get a flexible/bendable plywood that has it's grain running all in the same direction. You might want to take a look at that as an option to avoid having to build up so many layers to get the thickness you are looking for. I'm pretty sure it could handle the curve radius you've designed.

Can you tell us what application you used to do that 3D design?
Thanks for the info on the "bendable plywood" but I've already got the 1/4 inch stuff I need.

My wife did ask that I not crack the concrete floor (but she was only kidding... I think...)

I used a 3D graphical package called "blender" to do the drawing. It can do far more than I've done, including full animation, as in Pixar or Disney. I am very slowly learning how to use its most basic of capabilities and have not yet attempted to associate textures with the 3D image or to create my own animation.

Blender is a free program to download at www.blender.org and there are lots of tutorials on the web for it... including some video tutorials. Be forewarned, there is a steep learning curve. Do/watch the tutorials and learn gradually and you will see how to approach creating an image. It has really helped with this project in that it let me do a lot of planning before I started making sawdust.

Joe L.

Not that I know enough on the topic to be commenting, but what made you choose the orientation of the drivers? Is there a sonic benefit or did you just go for aesthetics? The closeout deal on the avalanche 18s was so tempting, they are definitely the best bang for the buck in terms of low and loud bass (low milliHenry rating also makes them very musical for their size, even more so than a few 15s out there).

I understand the desire to keep them as pairs in order to make for easier transportation, but the beauty of dual woofers is in their ability to be placed in alignments like Push Pull to cancel out certain harmonics (whether that benefit is immediately noticeable and therefore worthwhile is different altogether as I have not experienced it or read enough on the subject).

When I first started thinking about upgrading my sub in my system (still thinking to this day eheheh) I wanted a big sub to sit beneath my projection screen, my center would be done away with and I'd be using twin Ava 18's in push pull (somehow... ehehe didn't figure out just how yet) powered by Adire's sub amps with built in linkwitz transform circuitry to extend system response and be able to select system Q. Then I started thinking about IBs, reading this stuff is very fun so I don't mind that I don't have a killer sub just yet.

Hope all goes well, you may also want to post in the subwoofer and bass transducers forum, they are real bass nuts over there and many of them have DIY subs. Guys like Ed Mullen, Mark Seaton etc. might have some comments in regards to the design choices.

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

Thanks for the info Joe. I went to the site, but it must be down. Google lists the site at www.blender3d.com, but that link doesn't work either.

hdkhang, I am guessing that Joe decided to mount the drivers that way to save on space. If he were to use a push-pull style (isobaric) mounting, he would have a box half the size, but would have to figure out how to mount the drivers in a way that would not make the box too large. He did say it will be a close fit between the box and the screen with the center channel on it.

Wow!!! I don't come around here for a few months and when I do, I find the following:
1. the site looks different
2. this thread is STILL going!
3. JL has now designed some new nuclear powered subwoofer w/the help of NASA.

It's funny, I was looking at the extra 6' section of 18" sonotube in my garage just yesterday. I think, maybe, I'll just build another sonosub and forget about my plan to go IB. I come here and find that I've already been left behind;) JL keep up the good work and keep the updates coming.

For something a bit different, check out this "Death Star" Subwoofer that someone in the UK made.

http://www.objectreality.co.uk/DeathStarPlans/


http://i9.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/71/40/1c_12_sb.JPG

Wow!!! I don't come around here for a few months and when I do, I find the following:
1. the site looks different
2. this thread is STILL going!
3. JL has now designed some new nuclear powered subwoofer w/the help of NASA.

It's funny, I was looking at the extra 6' section of 18" sonotube in my garage just yesterday. I think, maybe, I'll just build another sonosub and forget about my plan to go IB. I come here and find that I've already been left behind;) JL keep up the good work and keep the updates coming.

Jeff,
You could go IB sub, and then I'd be left behind.

I traded a few messages with the guru's on the IB cult forum and think I'm going to face both drivers forward as in the following 3D illustration.
http://tinypic.com/9734tc.jpg

The biggest issue with the prior design was that the opening in the front of the sub was only about 1/2 the square inches of the combined surface area of the drivers cones. Although either design would work I think the sound quality will be a little better with this latest design.

hdkhang,
I was trying to keep the vibration of the enclosure at a minimum by having the drivers move in opposite directions. Unfortunately, that caused other issues in the design. I don't think a 300 lb sub will move across the carpet on its own very fast anyway from vibration... but who knows??? I am limited in the enclosure height to 16" so it will fit under my screen in my theater, therefore, the drivers must be mounted on angled baffles.

Scott, The center channel will not be resting on the sub. My center channel has been mounted over the screen for about a year now.

Pictures will follow as construction progresses...

Choots,
blender.org and blender3d.com are in the process of combining their web-sites. With any luck they will be back up in a few days.

Joe L.

O.K., that death star is pretty cool! I don't think I would have used the driver they chose though, since it has the blue on the dust cover. I would have gone with one that is all black...

And J.L., I do remember that your center is above the screen, just forgot at the time. I think you will be happier with the new design as it will not load the drivers against each other and will allow them to breathe easier.

btw: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/SVonhof/jl-box.jpg
I did this in about 15 minutes on Pro-Engineer. Probably a much steeper learning curve than blender, but it's what I do my work in. I did it as one part, but I would normally do it as individual parts like you would have before assembly, so you can make simple drawings of every part as well as do interferance checks and such. Makes life easier as long as you can measure accuratly with a tape measure when you are using the table saw. Then, label each peice according to the drawing and assemble.

I did this in about 15 minutes on Pro-Engineer. Probably a much steeper learning curve than blender, but it's what I do my work in. I did it as one part, but I would normally do it as individual parts like you would have before assembly, so you can make simple drawings of every part as well as do interferance checks and such. Makes life easier as long as you can measure accuratly with a tape measure when you are using the table saw. Then, label each peice according to the drawing and assemble.
Wow... thanks. Great rendering of my latest proposed design.
That is very close to my idea of how to deal with the internal bracing.
15 minutes... I'm very impressed..
(just goes to show you how little I know about 3D rendering. Took me about a week of playing for a hour or so in the evenings before I could even render the curved front in 3D.)

Joe L.

Thanks BigguyZ...I definitely will want to chat with you about my direction and the Audax speakers. Getting a chance to hear them would be great! I'll take all the help I can get at this point!

Shall I PM you with my contact info?


Yeah, PM me and I'll send you my RL email.

OK- So I finally got my radial arm saw and the table it's attached to square, and I bought a table saw recently as well. I'm going to finish my Audax project, but during my free time I'm looking at other speakers I can build.

Initially, I was looking at building a complete speaker set and sell it for the cost to build it online. You know, just for the fun of the hobby (I cann't afford to build 10 sets of speakers and keep them all). But now I'm thinking if it would be possible to just build the cabinets for an established DIY speaker, and just sell the enclosure online... That way I won't have to invest in the most expensive part (the drivers/ crossovers), just the MDF and veneer.

What do you guys think, and do you have any suggestions as to what model?

i can see this as a market. I have thought about the same thing.. cept i am building me a DIY cnc routerload the plans and start cutting.. I got the idea from the htpc face some guy made for his htpc and a cnc router.. found a website on people who have built there own and free plans..

Wow that's some subwoofer project. I'd suggest a redesign using some non-resonant concrete sewer pipes for the main bodies ;)

All joking aside, I'm looking forward to how this works out.

The scary thing is, Joe's current sonosub is no slouch at all. I just put myself another $215 in the hole getting a 15" MKIII from PE, so hopefully I can start to work on my own little bit of LFE goodness this weekend.

It's amazing how your perspective changes once you go from "ok" 10's to "OMG" 15's. In a few short weeks I figure there will be some home theater clauses in our covenants just to cover anything else I may end up pulling :)

Next payday will be the shakers...then the green glue...then the...does it really ever end?

I will say this much though - you can graph, plot, and model all you want, but until you feel the full effects I don't think you can fully appreciate what some good speaker building can do. I've been reading about this stuff for a while here at AVS, but this was the first time I really had a chance to see things in action rather than in print.

Ok, so to finally make a real contribution to AVS (for a change), here is what I am making as a circle cutting jig. I found it online a while back but never had much use for it until now.

http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2004/10/08/sn/

I added a wing nut to the outside of the jig instead of a hex nut. Makes it a little easier to fine tune it.

I got everything from Home Depot except for the scrap wood. In all, it cost less than $10 in materials for all of the parts and is very versatile. Sure, it can't cut very small holes, but you can make this as large as you want. Right now my setup is using a 24" piece of 5/8" threaded rod. I doubt I will be cutting any speaker holes larger than that anytime soon.

Hey if your able to cut 48" holes.....it's good to plan for the future! :cool: :)
Dave

BrianMat,
That looks like a nice circle jig plan. I have a Jasper jig that I bought for smaller holes and for my large sonosub disks, I made one. Here is a picture of my jasper jig and my diy jig:
http://europa70.tripod.com/diy_sonosub003.htm and here:
http://europa70.tripod.com/diy_sonosub004.htm

Hey if your able to cut 48" holes.....it's good to plan for the future! :cool: :)

Hey, with some people ya just never can tell if even 48" is gonna be big enuff....... ;)


http://www.soundimage.dk/images/Giant%20woofer.jpg

Hey, with some people ya just never can tell if even 48" is gonna be big enuff....... ;)


http://www.soundimage.dk/images/Giant%20woofer.jpg
http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif
http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/images/smilies/hail.gif
http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/images/smilies/rockon.gif


Figured a few smilies from one of the other forums I frequent would be fitting here.

Hey, with some people ya just never can tell if even 48" is gonna be big enuff....... ;)
http://www.soundimage.dk/images/Giant%20woofer.jpg

Hey... I was only kidding, but now I'm not. That looks like the Home Depot 1-A! :) PLEASE tell me where you got that link. that is really awesome. It looks like he might have "cone breakup problems" though. LOL!!

PLEASE tell me where you got that link. that is really awesome.

I found it here.

http://www.soundimage.dk/Different-col/Extreme.htm

But that is just a wee little baby sub, when compared to this horn based sub that's built into/under a entire floor..

http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm

I found it here.

http://www.soundimage.dk/Different-col/Extreme.htm

But that is just a wee little baby sub, when compared to this horn based sub that's built into/under a entire floor..

http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm
And you guys were making fun of my "modest" sub....

Brian,
Nice circle jig plans... very easy to build and adjust.

Joe L.

The scary thing is, Joe's current sonosub is no slouch at all.

...snip..

It's amazing how your perspective changes once you go from "ok" 10's to "OMG" 15's.

...snip...

I will say this much though - you can graph, plot, and model all you want, but until you feel the full effects I don't think you can fully appreciate what some good speaker building can do. I've been reading about this stuff for a while here at AVS, but this was the first time I really had a chance to see things in action rather than in print.

I gave Brian a demo of my theater this weekend. DIY Audax HT speakers, DIY 260L Tempest sonosub, and Aura non-pro shakers, 7.1 sound at 125+ watts per channel, most of it previously described in this thread as I was building it. We did have the volume up near "reference" levels, but not so loud that it was difficult to talk during most of the "dialog" scenes.

Brian was primarily interested in the sonosub as he was thinking of building one. The Dayton Titanic driver he has since ordered is somewhat similar in size and displacement to my Adire Tempest driver. We didn't talk much about my Audax HT speakers other than that he liked their "large" sound...

I started with the subtle bass undertones of the initial scenes of "The Italian Job" since they showed off the "musical" ability of the sonosub. Brian commented that it was not "boomy" at all, but rather very natural sounding.

Brian instinctively grabbed for the armrests of his chair when an "unexpected" explosion occurred a few minutes later in that same scene as the thieves removed a safe from a building. As he said: "hard to plot or model..."

His comment above, about "feeling the full effects," is a nice compliment about the total immersive effect of seeing, hearing, and feeling the action when watching a movie in my theater.

Joe L.

Ordered the drivers for my first DIY speaker build... 2 Adire Audio Extremis midwoofers (for woofer duty only), 2 CSS WR125S 4.5" full-ranges for midrange duty, 2 Vifa XT19 tweets... Now I need to order a bunch of parts for the amps as these are going to be active. My crossover stuff will use Burr-Brown OPA134 opamps (which I have like 30 of at the moment), Extremis will use Burr-Brown OPA549s, WR125S will have a National Semiconductor LM3875, XT19 will probably get an LM4700. Total power should end up around 120W (+/- maybe 10W) per speaker.

What I still need to order at the moment is transformers and mostly resistors.

P.S. for sub drivers, try Ascendant Audio (http://www.ascendantaudio.com).

You guys and your subwoofers are killing me! I'm always getting annoyed when a car load of "punks" is behind me w/their subwoofers cracking the pavement. Now, I'm wanting to upgrade my HT sub again. I still have over 6ft of 18" sonotube left. I think I'll just build another sonosub. But...do I want to build one w/dual drivers or just drop in another Dayton 15 or Adire? I'll also have to equalize them and I guess I can do that w/the BFD I've never used. Correct?

For those of you who've seen pics of our HT, you may remember the "alley". That was a small space between the drywall and concrete basement wall that runs down one side of the HT. My plan was to close off a section of that and have a 2'W x 10'L subwoofer enclosure using 3 IB woofs. But my basement design did such a good job of using all the space left us little storage area and guess what happened to the "alley"? It's packed with Christmas decorations.

Jeff, this is a whole different ballgame than the punks in the cars. First off, as you know, we don't just play the music with only bass, since it is about the complete experience. Second, we normally buy quality components and actually take into consideration the measurments of the drivers and how they are going to be applied. How many punks in their cars take the time to make sure the box is exactly the correct size for the driver?! In our case, we need to make things correctly to take advantage of the complete driver ability instead of just relying on the cabin of the car to help out with the lacking box.

BTW, I used to have two 8" woofers in the back of my old Datsun 310GX... :)

Scott,
Since I was a teenager back in the 70s, the speaker of choice was the Jensen Triax connected to a Craig or Pioneer radio/tape player and yes it was 8-track. Also, I remember the old Datsuns. A good friend had a 710. In college I moved up to an Alpine system in my 1975 Monza Spider. That little car had a V8! BTW, we moved last July and I had to leave the wine cellar behind. I now have a freestanding Vinotemp.

But my basement design did such a good job of using all the space left us little storage area and guess what happened to the "alley"? It's packed with Christmas decorations.

Jeff,
I know you just moved, but you apparently need the same kind of house I need.

1000 square feet of living space
3000 square feet of attic space (Holiday decorations go here)
3000 square feet of basement space (Theater goes here)

Now... all you need is a realtor willing to work with you and find that elusive property.

Seriously, a second DVC driver in the other 6 foot section of sonotube would do wonders... so would putting the BFD in place to equalize them. (I would try putting the BFD in place anyway... while you wait for the new driver to be delivered by the UPS guy)

Oh yes... I had a Datsun 260Z (wife worked for a Datsun dealer back then) and the 8 track was in the glove box with a remote volume control and track change button on the console.
Joe L.

Jeff, I didn't know you moved. Do you have a web site with your new house on there?

PM me or send me an e-mail at: scott@vonhofs.com

BTW, opened a 1994 Grgich Cab recently, man was that nice! The cork could have gone another 10 years, but I don't think I could have waited that long! We have one more of those, and will wait to open it another year or so.

JL,
I think I'll do just that and order another DVC. The price is right and I already have a tube. As far as that house plan you mentioned: I'm trying to visualize that;) I'm not sure about the 260Z, but I know the240Z is a highly sought after vehicle and they bring a nice buck these days.

Scott,
I moved July 30, 2004. I now have real dedicated HT instead of a media room. All equipment except speakers was upgraded. Here are some pics: http://europa70.tripod.com//hovisht001.htm

@Dan.D

Wow, you sound like you really know the electronics side of thing... any resources you can share with us? I really like the idea of active crossovers and multiple power amps, less power loss and better dynamics is always a bonus.

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

Hey guys, since we've been on the subject of subwoofers lately: I got a PE sales catalog yesterday and on the back cover is the Titanic MKIII on sale for $25 off regular. Also, they have BASH amps on sale...probably shouldn't post prices. Are these BASH amps any good?

johnla, are you around? I know you built one of their MKIII kits. Are you still liking it?

Jeff, nice job on the new theater! So, that little space, if nothing else, you could add another sub back there and still allow storage of all the Christmas decorations as well. Just design something that will be large enough to act as a wall so your alley is just shorter than it is now...

Also, you have two pics on your site with other peoples equipment racks, but you don't show yours? Are you still working on it? Also, did you have to do anything about the screen material to make sure you could not see the frame for it?

Jeff, I have the two of the 10" Titanic kits using the MK series Dayton drivers and they are great. I have not had a single problem except for the occational (I assume) ground loop hum turning the sub amp on. I don't know why it will do this sometimes and not others...

http://www.linkwitzlab.com is a great resource for active filters, but it won't teach you basic electronics.

I got a PE sales catalog yesterday and on the back cover is the Titanic MKIII on sale for $25 off regular. Also, they have BASH amps on sale...probably shouldn't post prices. Are these BASH amps any good?

johnla, are you around? I know you built one of their MKIII kits. Are you still liking it?

Yep, I'm still here. And still liking the 15" MKIII. But I'm not so sure that one of those 500w BASH amps is really enough to fully power a 15" Titanic if you tend to like to push it.
I think the general consensus on the 15" MKIII is, that 500watts is the very minimum amount you should use to power it, and that using 1000watts is a whole lot better. And that if you go with a ported or non-ported design with them, also has a lot to do with how much power you should have.

Granted, normally pretty much every one would always take the bigger amp over a smaller one if they had the choice and extra money to do so. But it's a tough call though, with the 1000watts costing almost twice the amount of the 500watt.

If you are not in a big rush, you may want to wait awhile.
Rumor has it, that Parts Express may soon have some new models of Subwoofers coming out, that will be marketed under their reference series line of speaker drivers. And if they turn out anything like the current Reference series of drivers, they should end up being real winners.

That amp is just fine. You should be able to hit 115-120dB with it + that sub.

Scott,
Thanks for taking a look. For the screen frame, I removed the vertical brace in the center and added a border to the outer frame. It's a little flimsy now, but once mounted it doesn't matter. I used keyhole brackets on the four corners and you just lift up and pull out. It's better to have a helper now since the center brace is gone. The black panel to the right is removable and I can get to all the speakers from there. I'm very happy with the Dazian acoustically transparent fabric.

My rack is actually built inside the "alley" I guess I should take a picture of it.


Jeff, nice job on the new theater! So, that little space, if nothing else, you could add another sub back there and still allow storage of all the Christmas decorations as well. Just design something that will be large enough to act as a wall so your alley is just shorter than it is now...

Also, you have two pics on your site with other peoples equipment racks, but you don't show yours? Are you still working on it? Also, did you have to do anything about the screen material to make sure you could not see the frame for it?

OMG - I totally forgot how much of a PITA it can be to work with MDF. That dust is almost as bad as drywall.

Anyway, day 1 of the Titanic MKIII sub is in the books. I was grabbing some stuff from my storage shed and I had some 3/4" MDF, but I also had some Slatron from a Sears pool table. Long story short - they send the wrong rail kit and sent a second top instead of the rails. This stuff is nice and dense - also 3/4". Heavy as can be as well.

I cut 4 18" caps and one 21" cap for the base. I plan to do some layout of the next cut holes for the port and the sub. I already made the first boneheaded mistake. When I ordered the parts from Parts Express I picked up a round binding post set. Well, a 15" sub in an 18" circle of MDF doesn't leave much room for the binding posts.

I guess I need to make another order with PE unless I can find somewhere locally that would have some quality binding posts.

I ran the setup through BassBox and it has me building doing the following:

Width: 18"
Height: 52.83"
Vb: 206.5l
Fb: 18.53Hz
F3: 22.83Hz

Port:
Dv: 6"
Lv: 27.4"

At least I have enough MDF still in storage to make at least two more subs - so I have some room for oopsies.

Hopefully by next weekend I will have a functional - although FUGLY sub to play around with.

Ok, so much for that, now for a question:

I have an old KLH 8" subwoofer box with a small amp. When I tested it a got a loud thud and then a buzzing sound. Looks like the speaker is fried, but is there an easy way to tell if the amp is still good? It's a tiny amp, but enough to run a little power to the sub for testing purposes. I just want to make sure my amp doesn't kill my MKIII (if that is possible). I don't know if just sticking a multi-meter to it will be able to tell if there is a problem or not. The fuse never blew and it's not overheating - so it seems fine. But, it's a KLH, so you never know what part fell apart first :)

Eventually I'll pick up a PE sub amp or a Crown 402b for this, but for now I just need to run it through the paces when it is complete.

My neighbors are SOOOOOO going to hate me :)

I ran the setup through BassBox and it has me building doing the following:

Width: 18"
Height: 52.83"
Vb: 206.5l
Fb: 18.53Hz
F3: 22.83Hz

Port:
Dv: 6"
Lv: 27.4"

At least I have enough MDF still in storage to make at least two more subs - so I have some room for oopsies.

Hopefully by next weekend I will have a functional - although FUGLY sub to play around with.


Don't get addicted to MDF dust... :) In fact, use a mask or respirator, the dust is not real good for your lungs. Can't wait till you report back on how it sounds.


Ok, so much for that, now for a question:

I have an old KLH 8" subwoofer box with a small amp. When I tested it a got a loud thud and then a buzzing sound. Looks like the speaker is fried, but is there an easy way to tell if the amp is still good? It's a tiny amp, but enough to run a little power to the sub for testing purposes. I just want to make sure my amp doesn't kill my MKIII (if that is possible). I don't know if just sticking a multi-meter to it will be able to tell if there is a problem or not. The fuse never blew and it's not overheating - so it seems fine. But, it's a KLH, so you never know what part fell apart first :)


If the sub made a loud "thud" odds are it is not "fried"

Before you put your new MKIII on it, put a multimeter across the speaker outputs of the amplifier (while leaving it connected to the original speaker). If you measure much more than a volt of DC, the amp needs service and you should not use it on your new driver.


My neighbors are SOOOOOO going to hate me :)
Good thing they don't know me... :) I might not be their favorite either... after encouraging your "addiction" to DIY sonosub construction.

Joe L.

I'm about to start building my speakers and have a few questions.

I've read as much as I can trying to figure everything out.

Audax system with a sonosub seems like the way to go.

Now to the questions.

1. How does one have the driver holes be the same in both sheets of MDF in the front. Does one glue them together then use the router to take both out? Or do them apart and hope you measured right and it works out?

2. For the sonosub is the interior 18in across or is it 18in to the outside? I'm assuming I need 18in circle and a 15in hole in the middle of that.

3. J. L. did you wrap the inside of the sonotub with insulation or just the port?

4. For the 6.5in drivers I make a 6.5in hole but how big do I make the 1/4in drop so they are flush with the front of the speaker? For the 5.25in driver the instructions say to make a 4.375 in hole and have the drop be all the way out to 5.625in. Anyhow i'm confused.

Thats it for now. I'll buy a router and MDF today/tomorrow.

Can't wait to get started.

dsl1, first things first, get the drivers in hand if you don't have them already, since I am sure you don't cut a 6.5" hole for a 6.5" driver....

Well, I have not yet moved to cutting the speaker holes as of yet, but here are a few things I have seen from other builders.

1. You can glue the plates together and drill the pilot hole through the boards. You cut one half, flip it over, and finish on the other side.

2. You can stack them unglued and drill a pilot hole through all pieces. Cut the holes for each piece and then assemble.

I like approach number 2 only because it give me more internal clamping space. I am not sure if it really makes much of a difference either way, but I like the idea of being able to put some good clamping pressure on all exposed edges.

Of course, I am still just sitting here with 5 disks of MDF, a compass, and a pencil :) I am probably being totally anal on the layout of this, but I am trying my best to measure 20 times and cut once.

The one tricky bit I came across was marking the cut line for the sonotube. Allow be to be Captain Obvious (tm) and relay a tip I came across:

use either taped copy paper/banner paper or wrapping paper as a guide (really, any long paper with parallel edges will work). Wrap around the tube so all edges are flush with each other with a bit over overlap - 1 1/2 to 2 layers. Make sure the paper is tight against the tube and tape it to hold it. This edge of the paper gives a square reference to the tube and you can then draw your cut line following this edge. This is basically what people use for making clean cuts in building model rockets, but just on a larger scale.

On a related construction note: is it ok to seal as much as possible with silicone caulk? I am trying to be sure I get a good seal around all edges. It there any other sealer/adhesive which may be better?

I would think that if you can glue (laminate) the two peices of wood (mdf) together before drilling any holes or even cutting to finished size, would give you the best end product. That way, everything lines up 100%.

I would think that if you can glue (laminate) the two peices of wood (mdf) together before drilling any holes or even cutting to finished size, would give you the best end product. That way, everything lines up 100%.

I made the driver and port holes in the inner layer of my end-caps, then attached the outer layer(s) to the inner (prior to making any hole in the outer layer)

Then... I made a 3/4 inch hole (with a drill bit) in the center of the outer layer to use as a starting point, and then used a "roller-bearing guided flush trimming bit" in my router to make the hole in the outer layer match exactly the hole in the inner layer... since the roller bearing will trace the circumference of the inner layer hole you already made and cut the outer layer to match exactly.

Joe L.

I made the driver and port holes in the inner layer of my end-caps, then attached the outer layer(s) to the inner (prior to making any hole in the outer layer)

Then... I made a 3/4 inch hole (with a drill bit) in the center of the outer layer to use as a starting point, and then used a "roller-bearing guided flush trimming bit" in my router to make the hole in the outer layer match exactly the hole in the inner layer... since the roller bearing will trace the circumference of the inner layer hole you already made and cut the outer layer to match exactly.

Joe L.

Makes perfect sense.

Then what did you use to make indent around the driver for it to be flush? This is the one of the last parts I am confused on. I'm sure once I actually buy a router it will make sense.

Edit: You use a rebate bit correct?

Thanks

Makes perfect sense.

Then what did you use to make indent around the driver for it to be flush? This is the last part I am confused on. I'm sure once I actually buy a router it will make sense.

Thanks

The answer was back in post 153 in this thread... (You did commit this entire thread to memory... didn't you :))

In case you did not :):):)...

You could do it two ways... make a shallow circle, just large enough for the flange of the driver to sit even with the front of your enclosure, and of a large enough diameter for it to fit the diameter of the flange with your router, then, adjust the circle jig for a diameter about an inch or so smaller and cut the hole for the driver basket all the way through the front of the enclosure. I did it this way for my center channel enclosure.

Or... you could cut a circle exactly 1 inch in diameter smaller than the flange of your driver all the way through the front of the enclosure and then use a roller-bearing rabbiting bit... adjusted to cut the depth of your flange... to make the rabbet. This is much easier and allows you to use the same bit to trim the veneer later saving a bunch of work.

A link to my original post is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=1693994&&#post1693994)

An example of the rabbeting bit is here (http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=887-635&LARGEVIEW=ON)

And further explained here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=1734498&&#post1734498)

A really good description/tutorial on how to do this is at speakerbuilder.net at this link (http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Articles/ventut/ventutmain.htm)

Jeff's post on the same task is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=1732833&&#post1732833) ... yup... we both made the inner hole about 1/8th inch too small (we followed the plans) and had to widen the rabbet we made from 1/2 inch to 9/16ths of an inch.

Joe L.

snip


You are the man!!


Edit: One more question for now. Did you put a layer of insulation on the inside of the sonosub or just around the port?

Thanks

You are the man!!


Edit: One more question for now. Did you put a layer of insulation on the inside of the sonosub or just around the port?

Thanks

In my sonosub it is only around the port. It is there to dampen "standing waves" that might occur since the tube length is long enough to be a quarter-wave long at higher frequencies.

The rest of the sonotube is bare inside.

For your other questions... The inside diameter of any given tube might vary as it makes a lot of sense to be able to nest several large tubes together when shipping them. Therefore, my tube was 18 1/4 inch diameter, the one you buy might be 18 inches...

Best to get the tube first before doing the final fitting of the end-caps. Also... don't get fooled by only taking one measurement of the diameter. The unsupported tubes are rarely perfectly round, it might measure 18 1/2 in one place and 18 at another. Now, you can make your end-cap perfectly round and the tube will conform to the shape, but trial and error fittings are in order.

If you are unsure, make a circle out of scrap wood and do a trial fit in the sonotube... once you have your circle jig adjusted so the end-caps are snug, make others out of the good MDF using the same jig adjustment.

Good luck with your project.

I'm in the middle of building the "replacement" for my sonosub. It is a bit bigger 25 cubic feet vs. 9 1/2, two 18" drivers vs. a single 15" driver and 13 Liters total displacement vs. 2.5Liters. It will sit below my screen as the "stage" It is about 96 inches long, 16 inches high, and 36 inched deep in the middle tapering to 30 inches deep at the ends.

Here is a a picture of it so far, standing on end, as I work on laminating the curved front.
http://tinypic.com/af7cx4.jpg

Joe L.

JL, I have seen pics like this before and may have even asked before, but do you do all the assembly work in your theater? Did you use up the majority of your garage for the theater or do you have some sports cars in there or something? I wouldn't do that in my theater for several reasons, the first of which is that it would not be bright enough...

JL, I have seen pics like this before and may have even asked before, but do you do all the assembly work in your theater? Did you use up the majority of your garage for the theater or do you have some sports cars in there or something? I wouldn't do that in my theater for several reasons, the first of which is that it would not be bright enough...

I do a lot of the assembly in the theater... It is out of the way, in the basement, air-conditioned in the summer, heated in the winter, and generally not a problem to manage the construction and still be able to watch movies. It is bright enough if I turn on the lights full.

On the other hand, the 2 car garage is attached to the side of the house, is about 95 degrees, (not air-conditioned or heated), only has one 75 watt bulb to light it up. One half is a bit cluttered and the other half does have a "sports car" of sorts. A fiberglass replica of a 1952 MGTD built on an old 1972 VW chassis. It has not been on the road for over a year. We've had it for over 23 years and it does not get much use... (we have other cars for day-to-day use) (This is not my "sports car", but looks exactly like it (http://www.bobsclassics.com/52ma13.jpg) )

So... the theater is a lot more comfortable for the assembly work after I make most of the sawdust outside.

I will admit, because I do most of my cutting outside of the garage, the car does have a layer of MDF dust on it at this time. It is overdue for a wash.

Joe L.

The new box is looking good Joe and it looks like it will not take too long to get it finished. I still can't imagine what sort of effect that will have in your theater. I'm going to have "woofer envy"....

If I can just get past my anal rententive nature and just build the *%#@ thing I will be set. As it was, I was outside tonight fitting two inside caps together and lamenting the fact that somehow I got my circle cutter off by somewhere beween 1/32" and 1/16". It's things like that which make me toss everything and start all over again. So, I just glued them together and figured I would see if I can live with the difference. I'll probably be able to convince myself tomorrow that an trim bit and some caulk will make it all ok.

It is a bit of a pain doing this on an 8'x8' patio. You really need some room to work and move around when dealing with things this size.

My plan for tomorrow is to get the next caps glued up, get the driver hole cut in the bottom cap, and glue the bottom plate. Unless it rains this week, I should be ready to test fit it all this weekend sometime - and I am stoked.

Oh, and this MKIII sub is pretty darned stout. I was suprised at how beefy it feels for under $200. I think I will be quite happy with this driver.

The new box is looking good Joe and it looks like it will not take too long to get it finished. I still can't imagine what sort of effect that will have in your theater. I'm going to have "woofer envy"....

I don't think you have anything to worry about...

I'll probably be able to convince myself tomorrow that a trim bit and some caulk will make it all ok.

Yup... and a bit of caulk to fill any gaps... you'll be in fine shape. If two layers are inside the tube you will want them to taper slightly just to get them to fit into the ends. (I originally made them square and could not get them into the tube they were so tight. I had to taper them slightly and even rounded over the innermost edge to make it easier to get it inserted into the tube)


Oh, and this MKIII sub is pretty darned stout. I was suprised at how beefy it feels for under $200. I think I will be quite happy with this driver.
Nice that it was on sale... I've read of lots of subs being built with it... I'm sure your neighbors will soon have "woofer envy" too :eek:

Good luck... hope you get it all together by the weekend.

Joe L.

What sort of quality bits should I get for routing mdf? I can't seem to find a good set. It looks like I will get a Skil 1825 unless anybody here knows of a better router for 100$ It has a 1/2in shank size.

Get carbide bits. High Speed Steel (HSS) will not work long term for MDF.

One thing I have found over the years: bits and blades - you get what you pay for. I am grabbing a few Freud bits tonight on the way home. They are more expensive, but they will last beyond one project. I only like to use generic bits/blades when 1) cut quality is not critical or 2) I REALLY don't want to drive back out to HD or Woodworker's Supply. Entropy sucks sometimes :)

That $48 bit may look similar to that $14 bit, but there really is a difference.

What sort of quality bits should I get for routing mdf? I can't seem to find a good set. It looks like I will get a Skil 1825 unless anybody here knows of a better router for 100$ It has a 1/2in shank size.

you will want to get the carbide-tipped bits... the MDF will dull the plain steel bits far too quickly.

I bought a boxed set of various sizes from a local "Harbor Freight Tools" store that I used.

Joe L.

Get carbide bits. High Speed Steel (HSS) will not work long term for MDF.

One thing I have found over the years: bits and blades - you get what you pay for. I am grabbing a few Freud bits tonight on the way home. They are more expensive, but they will last beyond one project. I only like to use generic bits/blades when 1) cut quality is not critical or 2) I REALLY don't want to drive back out to HD or Woodworker's Supply. Entropy sucks sometimes :)

That $48 bit may look similar to that $14 bit, but there really is a difference.

My amazon cart has 3 freud cutting bits, 1/2 straight, 3/4in straight, and 3/8in flush trim. I also have a Grizzly 1/2 rabbeting bit and a Grizzly 3/4in roundover bit.

Sound good?

Should I get a jasper jig or is it not worth the money and making my own? I'm not even sure if it will fit the Skil 1825.

I bought a set of carbide tiped bits a HD for $100. I've made 14 speakers with them and they're like new. The set has 24 buts, but I really only use the roundover, straight cutting and Roman Ogee. The last one is used to put a nice edge on stands.

As far as jigs go, I was going to make my own circle jig, but when I was at Sears last weekend I came across their circle cutting jig for $29.95. It came with the circle cutter and edge cutter with a universal (and quick disconnect) base. I figured that was worth the price of admission since I know it would be pretty close to accurate out of the box. It works well, but make sure you get some extra nails to fit the pivot - they give you one $(@! tack to use.

I'm picking up an upcut spiral bit tonight on the way home. I have been reading more about those and how they tend to work a bit better for making these types of cuts. I figured it's worth a shot.

Oh, and true happiness is realizing there is a Harbor Freight just a few miles away :) You can get some really slick stuff over there, just be careful what you get. Take a good look at it and assume most of the power tools shouldn't be used for heavy duty or finish work. The stuff there was killer for framing a house I was helping with - especially the compressor...but I digress.

Now, if the weather plays nice this weekend I can get more done. Dang rain this week.

Well I ordered my stuff.

Skil 1825 plunge and fixed base combo router
6 24in clamps
1 36in straight edge clamp
1 Jasper jig and hopefully it will fit the router. Anyone use the jasper jig with a 1/2in shank router? How do you figure out the measurements?

Then I got MLCS router bits. Hopefully they are decent. Seem to have good reviews from some big magazines.

Quantity Name SKU Each Total
1 Round Over bit 3/4" radius
1 Straight 1/2in X 1in X 1/2 shank
1 Rabbeting bit 1/2in guide bearing
1 Flush Trim bit 3/8" Lrg Dia 1" Cut Length - 1/2" shank

All bits are carbide and the bits that need guide bearings are guide bearings.

I have wood glue and will get MDF in the next day or two. Its just standard interior 3/4in MDF correct?

Now for the questions.

What size hole do I need for the tweeter and the 5.25in driver?
The 6.5in driver needs a 5 7/8in hole with a 1/2in lip all the way around correct? Also in the rear what size hole do I make for the panel where the cables come in? I will buy the madisound kit. I'm buying a house so money is a bit tight at the moment and I would like to build the cases first. Then in a month or two buy kits.

Thanks everyone.

Looking over Madisounds site again I found measurements. http://www.madisound.com/audaxhometheater.html

So a 1.75in circle for the tweeter
From the instructions here a 5 7/8in circle with a 1/2in rabbet that is a 1/4in deep for the 6.5in driver


Now the center channels 5.25in driver.

Instructions say a 4 3/8 cut with a rabbet that will make it 5 5/8. I will only have a 1/2in rabbeting bit so is it okay to make the hole 4 5/8in? If not what did you do?

For router bits, I've really like the Woodline bits I got online. VERY cheap shipping (flat $4 for even large orders), and great service. You can get inexpensive bits, and I don't feel that the quality is lacking when comparing with the Menards tool shop or other cheap bits. I've gottwn whiteside bits as well, and I'd say they're in the same ballpark.

Anyone have any idea's/ suggestions for an affordable router table?

Anyone have any idea's/ suggestions for an affordable router table?

Sears, Menards, or even check and see what woodline.com has. Or better yet DIY, and make one up. And you can also buy just the tops or even just the insert plate that hold the router, if you want to go the DIY road....

That's not a bad idea as far as the DIY route. But I wouldn't mind spending more $ to get more functionality. Anyone familiar with a particular model? There's a Bostich table at HD for $250, but you have to buy the router too. But then there's the Ryobi router/ table combo for $100.... I think though that I'd need at least a 1/2" shank for the larger bits.

Well, I thought I was going to be ready to dry fit everything together today. The NC heat took its toll earlier today and an oopsie with the router ruined my speaker end cap.

So, I need to cut a few more disks and glue them up. The good news is I learned a few things when doing my speaker cutouts, so it should be a little easier this time around.

I picked up some Freud bits to replace the rest of the cheapies I was using - and it made a big difference. The cheap bits were burning the MDF but the Freud were ripping through it like it was nothing. The price wasn't that bad either (about $18.50 per bit at Woodworker's Supply).

After my router gouged the heck out of my endcap and sent it flying out of the clamps I packed it up for the day :(

It's times like this where I really miss having a garage.

I cut the sonotube to length this weekend. One thing that worked well for me was to draw my cutline then use my pull saw to score on the cutline. I was then able to easily follow the scored line the entire diameter of the sonotube. You don't need anything expensive: HD sells a cross cut/finish cut combo pull saw for about $16. This worked much better then when I tried with my jigsaw. The vibrations from the jigsaw were making it hard to rotate the sonotube and stay on the cutline. Using the pull saw only took me about 10 minutes to get dead on the line. If you have never used a pull saw then give one a try. They make short work out of most cutting duty.

So, hopefully next weekend I'll have better luck.

Rules for the weekend:

1. Watch 1/2" router bits. They bite much more than 1/4" bits and can kick when you don't expect it.

2. Be careful working in the heat. Sometimes it is hard to tell if the sun is getting to you and you are getting clumsy.

3. USE GOOD TOOLS

I just chalked it up to a learning experience.

Brian,

I too was slowed by the heat... I did get to make some sawdust after dinner yesterday as the temperature was below 90 and the driveway was in the shade. I did purchase a new Freud carbide tipped blade for my circular saw so it made the cutting a bit easier. When using your router don't try to make your cuts in one pass... instead, cut only about 1/4 inch depth at a time and make multiple passes. If your work was grabbed and wrenched out of your clamps you were lucky you did not get hurt. As you said, lesson learned.

I spent my time making lots of little pieces of wood out of a large sheet of plywood. (My wife said I was doing my "manly thing" of using power tools and making sawdust)

Basically, I cut 1 inch wide strips of baltic-birch plywood and then cut them to the lengths needed to fit inside the curved front of my new sub enclosures. I ended up with just over 100 cut pieces, each about 1 x 14.5 inches. (and lots of sawdust)

Once glued in place they will make the front about 1 1/4 inches thick. (two layers of 1/4 inch ply combined with the 3/4 inch strips I made last night.)

I've placed them in the front of the sub to make sure everything fit as planned.

Next step for me is to glue them all into place using "Gorilla Glue." It will expand to fill all the voids and cracks.

Joe L.

http://tinypic.com/axlduu.jpg

Dude, J.L., looks like you need to get a way to accuratly reproduce the same length every time! If you have a mitre saw, get some clamps and some extra peices of wood and make a stop block or stop fixture so you can push the peice of wood against the stop, cut and go. Every peice will be the same length that way, plus, you don't need to measure every time!

Dude, J.L., looks like you need to get a way to accuratly reproduce the same length every time! If you have a mitre saw, get some clamps and some extra peices of wood and make a stop block or stop fixture so you can push the peice of wood against the stop, cut and go. Every peice will be the same length that way, plus, you don't need to measure every time!

Scott,

I did use a stop-block and a miter-fixture in my homemade cutting jig.

http://home.triad.rr.com/leggio/images/ht/candy_counter/P2191691.jpg

It made everything go very fast. As you said, I did not have to measure every piece. I also used the "saw-guide" on my circular saw to first cut the long 1 inch wide strips from the sheet of plywood. It also made the work go much faster as all I had to do was to re-adjust the clamps so the saw blade would clear the saw-horses I was using when making the cuts.

It still took me almost two hours as I was not trying to rush in the heat. Last thing I wanted to do was to make a trip to the emergency room.

Joe L.

Joe,

Is there a reason you did the cutting as strips rather than as 2 pieces of ply? It would seem marking the radius of the cut and hitting it with a jigsaw would have been less work, but I am sure you have your reasons.

Joe,

Is there a reason you did the cutting as strips rather than as 2 pieces of ply? It would seem marking the radius of the cut and hitting it with a jigsaw would have been less work, but I am sure you have your reasons.
Brian,
The front layer is a single piece of ply. When the top and bottom are in place I'll add another 1/4" layer on top to make it all look nice and even. If it looks good enough I might not cover the front of the stage with fabric like I originally planned. I do know the top will be covered with black velvet to absorb the light reflected from the screen. It makes a huge difference.

It would have taken 5 layers of 1/4 inch ply to get the same thickness. I just traded lots of pieces, for lots of glue and clamps. As you said, I could have done it either way. This way however, as I glue up the strips on the inside of the front I can extend the front-to-back braces all the way to the front-ply (each brace taking the place where of one of the 3/4 inch strips that would have been in the glue-up) That will give me a lot more gluing surface on the brace, tightly tie the brace to the front, and result in a lot stronger box.

Joe L.
I know it seems like progress is slow... but my wife and I also watched about three movies this past week ... and my current "smaller" subwoofer works just fine for most soundtracks.

Much better progress after work today. I got the bottom cap speaker cutout done and re-cut an endcap before the rain started trickling in.

I have to hit HD to get a few more t-nuts since my other ones were glued in between layers. I hate making that run for a $0.98 bag of bolts.

Hopefully tomorrow if it doesn't rain I can get the rest of the holes cut and the endcap glued up. It should be short work to cut the port end again, so that is my Thurs/Fri plan. I am taking it much slower this weekend and not letting myself sit out in the heat all day.

J.L., do you do all your cutting with a saw like you show? I try to do almost everything with a table saw and mitre saw to ensure the straightest edges and square corners.

Plus, I just don't even have a good saw like that.

J.L., do you do all your cutting with a saw like you show? I try to do almost everything with a table saw and mitre saw to ensure the straightest edges and square corners.

Plus, I just don't even have a good saw like that.

Yup... A 30 some odd year old Sears Craftsman 7 1/4 inch blade circular saw is what use for most cuts. I do have a hand-held power jigsaw, but it does not do as well ripping long lengths of plywood :) I don't have a table saw.

I did make the "jig" I pictured to allow me to make accurate square cuts. In effect, it turns my circular saw into a radial-arm-saw. I learned when I built my candy-counter face-frame that accurate cuts on 1x2 oak are tough with a circular saw unless you have some kind of miter jig. The base-plate of the saw rides in two routed guides that are positioned about an inch above the cutting table. It is easy to get accurate and square cuts.

Joe L.

Just visiting the site after a few months away from it all.

J.L., your new sub project looks amazing... I can't wait to see it all completed and in place.

Jeff H., I took a few minutes and flipped through the pics of your new home and your HT... wow. That's a beautiful home, and an awesome dedicated HT... Just spectacular. Make sure you post some photos once everything is complete.

The weather is going to start getting cooler soon, and the days are already getting shorter... time for me to start thinking seriously about some saturday night movie nights again. I am still using the audax fronts and center than I built last winter, along with the IB subs. I want to upgrade my reciever, but I don't know if the budget will allow. Right now, 5 or 6 hundred bucks is about the max I could spend... I don't think I can get what I want for that price... these audax speakers are a hard drive, and I would like to get something that can really make them sing... so if that means waiting a while to get what I really want instead of settling for something less, that's what I'll do. We just spent a fortune on getting our house sided this year, and I still have gobs of money to spend remodeling the kitchen, dining room, and downstairs bathroom, so it might be a while.

well, anyways, just checking in... keep the photos rolling fellas...

After last weekend's oopsies I have recovered the progress on my sonotube sub. Right now I am waiting for the epoxy to dry on my port so I can finish that part.

The base is done. I made a new set of binding posts which took a while because I kept cracking the plexi I was using. Next time: thicker plexi.

I'm getting totally on edge to get this finished and try it out. I have to keep tempering my enthusiasm or I might rush myself and make a last minute mistake.

While the epoxy is drying I'm going to make another search for my digital camera to see if I can get a few shots of the current progress. I swear, when you move stuff just disappears. I've been looking for some stuff for 3 weeks now and I still can't find the right boxes.

Update:

Here are some progress pics:

End cap and port:

http://www.matsik.com/images/port2.jpg

One big port, but the correct size per bassbox. It's a 6" piece of PVC and 27.4" length.

Bottom cap shot:

http://www.matsik.com/images/bottom_cap.jpg

Nothing fancy here - just lots of t-nuts. The driver takes 8 and the feet take 4. I use #10-32 3" screws for the driver and 1/4" 6" for the feet.

Driver assembly:

http://www.matsik.com/images/assembly2.jpg

The binding posts bother me right now, but I will think of a better setup. I'll probably recut with thicker plexi - but this is what I had sitting in my parts box.

Base cap assembly:

http://www.matsik.com/images/base1.jpg

http://www.matsik.com/images/base2.jpg

I used 4" schedule 40 pipe fittings for the base. Once I paint and reassemble I will put a 1" piece of PVC around this and then cover with black poly pipe insulation. It will make it look a bit more sturdy, but even with just the PVC it's pretty darned strong. I was able to stand on this before I cut all of the driver holes - so it can handle 205lbs.

The feet turned out to be pretty simple. There is a t-nut on the first cap which was countersunk just a touch and then glued onto the inner caps. The threads are completey hidden.

The base was drilled and a forstner bit was used to make a small section for 3 washers to fit. I used just a 6" 1/4" hex bolt. I slipped the pipe fittings over the hex bolt and tightened it all down. I probably spent $20 just in hardware until I found something that worked for me. I wanted easy to disassemble. I just knew if I made a permamant assembly the second it was all set I would need to get to the driver.

So, this is it for now. Once the epoxy is set I will route the port end cap and test fit everything together. I hate to do it, but I will have to disassemble one of my JBL subs to get to the amp for testing. Oh well, it should all re-assemble just fine.

If testing goes well, then everything will come apart this week and get primed and painted before the weekend.

That's all for now :)

Brian,

Your subwoofer project is looking really good. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

What internal volume and tuning frequency did you decide on for your sonosub?

One other question... with your neighbor's backyards as close as they are, has anyone asked "What in the heck are you building" yet?
(Odds are they would not recognize it for what it will be)

Joe L.

The internal volume: 206.5l
Fb: 18.53Hz

All per bassbox

I keep getting looks from the neighbors. I had one finally ask me today what in the heck I am building. I told him the spec of the subwoofer and he asked if he can check it out when it's done.

Overall it has been a fun project. I learned a lot, and I think a second time around I could do this in a couple of days without a problem.

We'll see how it sounds this week :)

I told him the spec of the subwoofer and he asked if he can check it out when it's done.


That's funny.... little does he know that he'll be "checking it out" whether he wants to or not, once you fire that puppy up and crank it. :D

At least until I get the basement fixed and work on the theater conversion the neighbors don't have much of a choice :)

I'm just hoping with all of this work it goes deep enough. The size seems a bit small, but I double checked all of the numbers and I am within about 1/4" on the length of the sonotube. It just seems small at the moment, but time will tell.

I did find that gluing 2 pieces of MDF and cutting them in one go was much faster and much more accurate. It just took every bit of the router bit to do the 1.5" thickness, but multiple small passes did it. I also used a 1/4" upcut bit, so it took it much slower than I would have with a 1/2" bit. If I can ever find the 1/2" collet for my router I will just switch to all big bits. I have a 2HP Industrial Craftsman that doesn't bog down much at all.

If I were to do it again, I would glue the two inside caps and cut them at once then tack the two bottom caps and make a single pass cut.

The hardest part was doing the port since my jig doesn't do small circles and I didn't want to spend another $35 on a Jasper jig. Next time I would just add that to the bag of tools. The Craftsman jig I used for $30 was worth its weight in gold.

But, the bottom line to any of these projects: good tools. Using the new Freud router bits made a HUGE difference in time and cut quality. The upcut bit only required some light sanding to make it nice and flush. Granted this was overkill, but I wanted to have perfect cuts on the caps. Anal, I know.

I also added a small roundover to the inner cap. This makes it so much easier to fit it into the tube since you don't have to worry about square edges catching. You don't need to do much, just enough to knock the edge off. You could even do a chamfer bit instead of a roundover.

I also added the wire to the binding posts: 12ga Carol wire from PE. Man, that stuff is sturdy. The Titanic comes with a spring loaded set of posts, so you don't have to crimp a connector to the end. Just one less connection to have to worry about.

I still don't like my sucky binding posts, but nobody will ever see it so I need to convince myself this is not a problem worth solving. I'll just add some silicone to seal it and call it done.

I still don't want to go pulling the amp out of my JBL just yet, so I might hit Ebay for a Crown 402B or PE for one of the sub amps. I could have either before the end of the week and not spend much on it. I'm going to eventually do 402B/202B amps for the entire theater, so this would be a good time to start buying.

I've been covered in MDF dust for the last couple of weekends, so tonight I am going out and refuse to play with any projects at home until tomorrow :)

At least until I get the basement fixed and work on the theater conversion the neighbors don't have much of a choice :)
Hope they share the same taste in music and movies as you...

I'm just hoping with all of this work it goes deep enough. The size seems a bit small, but I double checked all of the numbers and I am within about 1/4" on the length of the sonotube. It just seems small at the moment, but time will tell.Brian, a 200+ liter 15" driver subwoofer, tuned to 18Hz is not "small." "Medium sized" perhaps, compared to some :):):), much larger than most, but certainly not "small." I'm sure both you and your neighbors will find it goes plenty "deep"

If you get the amp from PE, get the one without any bass-boost. You don't want or need any artificial "boost"

Joe L.

I'm w/Joe. If I remember correctly, mine is 260L and over 6' tall. That aint small. I'm only building a second one just because I have the extra sono tube and MDF. I also have a bit of boominess in the rear of the room and I want to eliminate that.

Hey guys,
I'm building a set of pretty large corner horns for an entertainment room in our basement. I want to use highly polished veneer for the horns and a piano finish on the main cabinet. Does anyone know of a link for the application of a piano finish?

I recomend checking out computer case modding sites. Many will have a DIY guide to doing a mirror finish.

not much, but here are a few tips:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=573117

For something that big, a spray gun (and preferably a HVLP one) and automotive type finishes, using either lacquer or a urethane clear coat. Are probably the best way to go for a high gloss piano type finish. Not to mention a lot of careful prep work and sanding before applying the finish.
And then comes.... the buffing...;)

See my inwall thread for an example of an automotive finish in ebony black.

Thanks guys. I have an air compressor. I think I can get a decent HVLP sprayer for <$100. These are 66x24x36 and will be very heavy.

Whadda making? It almost sounds like it might be a set of Klipschorn "clones".

Brian, a 200+ liter 15" driver subwoofer, tuned to 18Hz is not "small."

You know, I think you're right. I appeared to be suffering what I call "environmental distortion". When you look at all of this stuff outside it looks tiny. Sort of like how the 65" TV doesn't look all that big in Best Buy...until you set it in your living room.

I finished painting this weekend. I decided to go with a satin black since it seemed to be pretty good at covering without much difficulty. I had to hit some shiny spots with 00 steel wool, but it looks really good now. Doesn't really reflect any light at all. Priming the setup with Kilz seemed to make a big difference in painting.

I dry fit the entire assembly for a final check and yeah, it's pretty friggin big.

I should have my carpet replaced on Wed (was supposed to be last week, but the slacker carpet guys couldn't get everything done). So, all of the A/V stuff is put away until this is done. I'll probably hit the fabric store on the way home and grab some material to make the sonotube sock.

I was planning to add some silicon caulk to the inside of the tube to seal the caps. I figured once it is assembled I really wouldn't have any reason to disassemble it later. I can still get the driver out if I need to without removing an end cap. I assume the caulk would not cause a problem later, but I wanted to check before I make the last changes to the assembly.

Now to practice my sewing skills. Everyone laughed when I got my sewing machine, but they would have never bought the line of, "It's for my subwoofer" :)

Now to practice my sewing skills. Everyone laughed when I got my sewing machine, but they would have never bought the line of, "It's for my subwoofer" :)The gals at the fabric store will really look at you weird when you ask for 2 yards of fabric so you can sew some socks ( for your "subwoofer").

Maybe you shouldn't tell them the whole truth :D

Well, here's the assembly awaiting the silicon caulk to dry:

http://www.matsik.com/images/finished2.jpg

I had some extra spray paint, so I painted some of the top - partly for giggles and grins. I thought of putting a layer of paint down, but it would take forever to spray the outside of this using cans. Besides, it will be covered with fabric. If any of the primer bleeds through then a quick go over with a foam roller and black paint should take care of that.

Once the caulk loses the tack I will drill some pilot holes and drive some 1 1/2" drywall screws to secure it. I doubt I will be able to fire it up tonight, and it would probably be best to let the caulk cure a little. Any shiny spots on the photo is the wet caulk. It should look fine in the morning.

Tomorrow though, it will be on :)

Oh, as a design note, I used the 4" PVC sections as the feet, but I decided to cover the outside with some of the 1" pipe insulation cut to length. I cut a small notch around the speaker and it sits nice and flush with the outsides. It actually looks pretty nice on the bottom. The pics don't quite give the best representation of how it really looks.

I can think of 100 things I would have done a little differently, but the way I usually overengineer and overanalyze everything I do it's a wonder I ever finish anything.

I'll post pics once I get a sock made and I get my basement back.

PE has done it again with their DOTD. The AUDAX AP170ZO is on sale for $24 until tomorrow. Limit is 8, but if anyone is doing an Audax HT, that'd be enough a 5.1 system.
Cheers, Bruce

Tonight I pulled the amp out of a JBL PB10 that I have to test the sub. Of course, I had to put in the depth charge scene of U-571.

I don't have the projector up, so I had to go by memory. I was thinking, "Hmm, this is decent" until of course the deep LFE explosion

Oh

my

God

The amp from the PB10 is only 150 watts, so I have to crank it up to almost max to get it to push the Titanic driver. I can't wait to get some real power behind this thing. I can't imagine if I push a Crown 402 into this monster.

I think at one point I was giggling like a schoolgirl as I replayed chapter 15 over and over. This has been 100% worth the effort just from my one little listening session. Talk about deep and tight bass. Wow.

I can't thank Joe enough for getting me started down this path. I am just amazed at how different my system already sounds and I haven't even started to dial anything in.

This think just flat out kicks ass. If it wasn't 11:00 I would be down there firing off the LFE demo disk. That's for tomorrow...

Brian, sounds like you are going to have some fun!

So, do you have any other pics of the beast? In-process pics and such? You, posing next to it in some slinky little number for size comparisons. Wait, that didn't sound right at all, forget I said that! :P

If I remember correctly, back what about a year ago, J.L. posed next to his water heater subwoofer for size comparisons, it helps to get an idea how big those subs are!

I would love to make one, but don't want a water-heater sitting in my theater, so I will stick to my two Parts Express Titanic 1000 kits for now.
I could make a sub that was larger diameter and stick it on the right side of the eqiupment rack, there is room there in front of the column where it would be out of the way, as long as I don't go above the chair-rail.... That could handle something about 24" in diameter and 48" tall. Do they make 2' diameter sonotube?

Scott,

I can see of I can get some size comparison pics and overall finished dimensions.

The funny thing about this sub, is it is big enough to sort of disappear if that makes any sense. It almost blends itself in like furniture. The shape of it also seems to break up and "big box" lines other subs have.

I do recall in other locations where people talked about getting 24" Sonotube, but I can't imagine how bulky that would be.

Overall I would say this is worth every bit of effort and absolutely justifies the cost.

As for in progress pics, sorry, I didn't make any. My camera was still packed up from the move and I didn't dig it out until the end.

Once I put more power to it I will get a better feeling of where the sub's limits are. Right now, I can't find any issues with the build quality.

For the moment, I can tell you it is under 5'8" :) But, I will see what I can do tonight.

I was thinking, "Hmm, this is decent" until of course the deep LFE explosion

Oh

my

God

<snip...>

I think at one point I was giggling like a schoolgirl as I replayed chapter 15 over and over. This has been 100% worth the effort just from my one little listening session. Talk about deep and tight bass. Wow. Yup... you just described how a decent sub will typically NOT bring attention to itself, but be there when needed by the program material to pressurize the room.

I can't thank Joe enough for getting me started down this path. I am just amazed at how different my system already sounds and I haven't even started to dial anything in.

This thing just flat out kicks ass. If it wasn't 11:00 I would be down there firing off the LFE demo disk. That's for tomorrow...You are welcome... remember, you helped me by "disposing" of the big cardboard tube that was taking up space in my garage. I think you will have a blast when you check out the LFE disk. (pun intended) Seriously, you will be re-watching movies and be surprised at how much subtle low-level deep bass exists in their soundtracks. It does not get as much press as the extreme LFE effects, but it sure adds to the total immersive experience.

Oh yes... multiple depth charge runs at 11:00PM :eek: Be considerate of the neighbors, otherwise they'll want to "kick ass" too. :(

Joe L.

Guys, I'm looking at the 15" buyout driver at PE. The deal is good until tomorrow. I may replace my current 15" DVC w/one of these. Which Crown amp is good for subs? The 'bay has good deals on Crown amps, but I'm not sure which series is for subs.
Thanks,
jh

That DVC 15" buyout subwoofer is rated for 1050w RMS @ 4ohms, and it has dual voice coils. So you're probably going to want something that can put out about 400-500wpc x 2 into 4ohms. And the Crown XLS 402 is rated as 400wpc x2 @ 4ohms, so it should work well with it. Although I think the XLS 602 may be a better choice with it's higher output, (and is the one that I would probably choose to go with that driver) the XLS 402 would still probably be adequate. The XLS 202 however, I really don't think would have anywhere near enough power for it.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/245-460d.pdf


You may want to also consider looking at the QSC RMX 1450 or 1850 series of pro amps as well, with the RMX 1850 maybe being the better choice.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/rmx.pdf


Also if you have any pro music shops, like a guitar center around where you live. They often will sell these same amps for very close to what ebay prices are. But beware, both the Crown XLS series and the QSC series of amps have cooling fans. Which depending upon where the amps are placed, they may or may not be objectionable to you as far as the amount of noise they create.

My only concern with that driver though, is that it may be a better driver for use as a automotive sub than it is for a H/T sub.

johnla,
Thanks! My equipment is in an isolated room and fan noise is no problem. My HK7200 has a push/pull cooling unit sandwiched between it and another amp. It has 8 fans and they can't be heard in the main room. The 402 and 602 are readilly available for $220/$320 on ebay.

So is anyone else going to bite on that driver?

I ordered the driver and I'll be buying an XLS 602. I'm just going to remove the old Dayton DVC and replace it with the new one. The cutout dimensions are the same.
jh

Argh! Someone pointed out the high Fs of 37 Hz on that driver. I'm not going to get it now.

First, Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have read it over the past 2 weeks and it was very informative.
Now, I want to build the Audax speakers, and I want to mount the crossover components in a subenclosure at the back of the box. If I do this, should I approximate the volume of the crossover components, then modify the box depth to comensate, or is this overkill and unnecessary?

I don't think it's necessary to worry about the crossover volume. However, you can always mount the crossovers on the outside of the Sub enclosure. That way, no worries.

Just found this thread - didn't even know AVS had a DIY forum. Here is the sonosub I just finished. http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~scallas
I agree that a black sonosub, no matter how big, does seem to blend into a room quite nicely. I also owe my happiness and performance to helpful people like Joe, Thomas, Patrick, and Mike.

Jeff, I would definitely recommend at least taking a look at the Carvin hd1800. The Crown XLS series became really popular here because it was one of the first pro amps that gained acceptance for use in ht. But it isn't as heavy as most of its competitors, it doesn't offer as many features (variable speed fan is a big one), and doesn't have as solid a FR - it starts dropping around 15hz.

Bigguyz,
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my last post. I am planning on mounting the crossovers outside the box. I am wondering if this box was designed with an overvolume to compensate for the crossovers, and if I take them out of the box, should i decrease the box volume by the approximate volume of the crossover components?

Thanks for the quick reply!
Kevin

I want to build the Audax speakers, and I want to mount the crossover components in a subenclosure at the back of the box. If I do this, should I approximate the volume of the crossover components, then modify the box depth to comensate, or is this overkill and unnecessary?
You can compensate if you wish, but I think you are also correct in that it is overkill and unnecessary. If you want to do anything, add an extra brace in the cabinet to occupy the volume the crossover would have occupied. It won't hurt, and it might ease your mind, even if unnecessary.

Joe L.

Thanks Joe,
I added a brace also. I used a spreadsheet to calculate the original internal volume and make sure I maintained it by modifying the depth after I created a cavity at the back to house the crossovers and added bracing. I don't have the crossovers yet, so I am just guessing at my current depth measurement for the cavity.
See Image Here (http://tinypic.com/dpwf9l.jpg)

Dude, you are making the box way more difficult to make than you need to. Too many joints...

Just my opinion.

Scott,
I had the same thought after I made the model. The idea is to have easy access to the crossovers without putting them in a separate box. I thought I would add the brace since I was increasing the depth of the box, but I don't even know if that would be the right brace to add.

Edit: Spelling

I am not at work, so I can't do a 3D model to show what I am thinking, but see if you can follow my thoughts.

Extend all the walls of the box back past the back wall. This will create a hollow area behind the back wall and ports where you can then hide the crossover, as well as give the impression that the box is much larger than it is. I don't know where you are putting these speakers to tell if this would be a problem, but it would allow good access to the crossover as well as still allow the box to remain simple to build.

That was my first thought, but I didn't know if that would interfere with the ports, so I figured I would just make a cavity that extends into the box so that the back could remain flat. So, if you think extending the box sides and top, then having the crossover back there won't affect the port, I will do that.

I can have a 16" box no problem.

You won't regret it! I've had mine for over 2-yrs now (close to 3) and I still love them. Good luck and of course let us see them.
jh

First, Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have read it over the past 2 weeks and it was very informative.
Now, I want to build the Audax speakers, and I want to mount the crossover components in a subenclosure at the back of the box. If I do this, should I approximate the volume of the crossover components, then modify the box depth to comensate, or is this overkill and unnecessary?

Jeff, I will put up pics as soon as I have some. I still have to order the parts and I am aquiring a few tools right now, so it will be a bit.

Scott, Is this more like what you are suggesting? pic of center idea 2 (http://tinypic.com/dpzhph.jpg)

Edit due to url problem

Jeff, I will put up pics as soon as I have some. I still have to order the parts and I am aquiring a few tools right now, so it will be a bit.

Scott, Is this more like what you are suggesting? pic of center idea 2 (http://tinypic.com/dpzhph.jpg)

Edit due to url problem

that's the way i pictured it.

Just checking in...

Good to see folks are still doing the audax kits. Now months since I completed my audax set, I plugged in my old cerwin vegas to do a quick comparison now that I am totally accustomed to the audax... and yuuuuuuck. There is no comparison whatsoever. And what strikes me the most is the difference in bass. The cerwin vegas are empty sounding... I couldn'y believe it. I had always held the bass capabilities of the cerwin vegas with high esteem... but man... they just sound unnatural in comparison to the audax... these babies are the best diy project I have ever done... hands down.

Still saving pennies for a new receiver... With heating prices this year being high, I might have to wait till next year... but you never know what santa might bring. :)

If you're on a budget, the Pioneer 1014 I got works very well with my set. Plenty of power. I think there's a new model now, 1015 I think.

Scott, Is this more like what you are suggesting? pic of center idea 2 (http://tinypic.com/dpzhph.jpg)


That is exactly what I was trying to say! :)

Hey, I showed the pics of Steve's sub to a friend who does D.J.-ing and he was thinking of maybe building a new cabinet for his sub driver. It is an 18" driver that he says doesn't put out much bass, but can handle a crap-load of power. He has an amp that is capable of driving 2000watts bridged. He doesn't have the driver specs yet (don't know if he can get them without testing it on his own).

He says the cabinet it's in is not meant for it and was thinking that a sonotube cabinet could be rolled to the location and then wedged into place or something for an event. He is saying that the folded horn subs that are used for clubs and such are just too heavy for him to use for DJ gigs.

I really don't think that the sonotube material itself would hold up very well at all to the abuse of being rolled around very much. Or even just the more "normal" type of abuse, such as constantly being moved around and loaded and unloaded all the time that it probably would be subjected if it used in something like a mobile DJ setup.

O.K., that's good to know. I have seen pictures of it, but have never actually seen it in person.

I agree, it's not made to take bumps and bruises - and although it may weigh less, I think trying to move this thing around every week would be a lot harder than a box sub - there isn't much to grab on here.

I think trying to move this thing around every week would be a lot harder than a box sub - there isn't much to grab on here.That could be fixed by adding external handles. You could make the top and bottom end caps so that long threaded rods could tie the top and bottom together, but outside of the sonotube instead of inside as some of us have.

The external top-to-bottom rods would then make very nice handles for carrying. If you wanted to make the subs a bit less fragile, coat the outside with fiberglass resin/fiberglass cloth. Again, not a design I'd use in a home theater, but I'll bet it would look impressive as a DJ sub.

When in place, the driver cone would be pretty well protected. Only issue left is the max SPL needed and that is largely a function of displacement. Something like Steve's Avalanche 18" driver is likely to be enough for many venues and way better than what most portable DJ rigs produce.

Besides, like Steve has said, why build one when you have to buy a 12 foot section of tube anyway... build two... and blame any resulting seismic events on previously unknown fault lines.

If the intent is to roll the sub, maybe he could beef up the endcaps and put a bike tire on each one.

Bike tires got me thinking. If he is really considering this type of sub, he could use some foam or rubber material and wrap several layers around the sub to keep it protected. When I got my black cloth at Jo Ann Fabric, they had several varieties of rubber and foam materials on large rollers.

Putting the threaded rod on the outside like Joe suggested would probably work pretty well - the outer layers of cap would just have to be wider so that the rod doesn't screw into it near the edges where it can't support much weight. Also, the outer layers of cap would probably need to be a lot thicker than 3/4" to support the weight.

He could build a sub that isn't nearly as tall as mine because in a club you don't need or want to get into the low teens at a high spl. By shortening the height to about 3-4' and raising the tuning point to about 30-35hz, I'm pretty sure that thing could belt out some very serious spl. I will mess around with the numbers when I get home.

Besides, like Steve has said, why build one when you have to buy a 12 foot section of tube anyway... build two... and blame any resulting seismic events on previously unknown fault lines
:) Exactly. If he is willing to buy a couple more drivers, he could easily make 3 subs out of a 12' piece and quickly build a reputation for himself as "DJ Bass".

So, I just glued up the center channel sides and bottom. Tomorrow I will put in the mid sub enclosure and a sub enclosure at the back for the crossover. I can't remember who mentioned harbor freight, but I had never heard of it until I read about it in this thread. Without that I wouldn't have all of the clamps in this picture and none of them were over $4.00.

Picture of clamped up center (http://tinypic.com/e9hekw.jpg)

Thanks for all of the great information from this thread.

If you got all those clamps for less than $4 a peice, you got a great deal! I am going to have to head over there before my next project, whenever that ends up being...

Scott,
I would recommend just going there every once in a while if it isn't out of your way. I was there about 4 weeks ago and they had the standard bar style clamps on sale, then I was there last weekend and they had the quick grip type on sale, just in time for me to glue this up. $20 every once in a while and you will be able to clamp up just about anything.

Unfortunatly, it is out of my way. But if I know they will have them, I can make a detour!

So, I glued up my mid chamber and I made it 3/4" too wide. Why? Because obviously I can't multiply 3/4" by 2 and subtract from 7 1/4. Does anyone think this will matter? I figured I can just leave it as is, and If it I think things don't sound right, I can glue some blocks of mdf to the roof of the mid chamber after testing. Does this sound like a good plan?

So, I glued up my mid chamber and I made it 3/4" too wide. Why? Because obviously I can't multiply 3/4" by 2 and subtract from 7 1/4. Does anyone think this will matter? I figured I can just leave it as is, and If it I think things don't sound right, I can glue some blocks of mdf to the roof of the mid chamber after testing. Does this sound like a good plan?kroberts1972,
I am not an expert, but your plan is as good as any. I'm not convinced it will make much difference.

It sounds like you also might have reduced the internal volume of the "midwoofer" compartment by the same few cubic inches. Again, it probably does not make too much difference, but you could perhaps find the tuning frequency very slightly higher.

Fortunately, this is not a exact science where the perfect enclosure magically ends up with dimensions that are multiples of 1/4 inch. I'm pretty sure it will sound just fine. If anything, make the port tubes a tiny bit longer and the tuning will be back close to where it was originally designed.

I have a port tube question as well. I understand that it is the total length including the mdf for the port length. R/L speakers port is 5 1/4in in length including a 1/2in roundover. Now my question is I only have a 3/4in roundover bit. How much longer should I make the port to to compensate for the additional roundover? Should I just spend another 20$ for a 1/2in roundover or does it not matter to much at all?


Also does anyone remember the cutout size for the speaker terminal cup that comes with the madisound kit?

Thanks

I always use these gold binding posts from PE just because I get tired of cutting large holes in my cabinets.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-1245



Also does anyone remember the cutout size for the speaker terminal cup that comes with the madisound kit?

Thanks

JL,
I thought about the extra removal of volume from the midwoofer cabinet, but my crossovers won't be in it, so it will probably still have a bit more volume than a cabinet with the crossover in it, so hopefully I will be fine there.

As for the mid subenclosure, I threw the numbers into winisd for the driver, it gave me this:

Optimal - 343.9 cu in - Qtc: .707, F3: 103 Hz
Original Plan - 310.5 cu in - Qtc: .725, F3: 106.7 Hz
Mine - 351 cu in - Qtc: .699, F3:102.32

So, it doesn't seem like much of a difference. The driver volume extended into the cabinet and stuffing will change this anyway, so in the end it will be inexact anyway. I might glue up the right amount of mdf and set it in there during testing just to see if there is any perceptable difference.

dsl1,
You should find the following page quite interesting:
DIY Port Flares (http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/port-flares.htm)
It states that:

A flared port couples to the surrounding air more efficiently than an unflared one, meaning that the flared port appears shorter. The generally accepted adjustment is to subtract half the flare radius from the physical length to obtain the acoustic length. If both ends of the port are flared, the adjustment is done for each flare.

There is also a lot of other interesting info on that site.

dsl1,
You should find the following page quite interesting:
DIY Port Flares (http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/port-flares.htm)
It states that:



There is also a lot of other interesting info on that site.


Okay so I would make the port length 5in (vs. 5 1/4in with 1/2in roundover) including the wood for the L/R and a 3/4in roundover. Did everyone go and buy a bit of 1in MDF for that small part of the port on the L/R or just make the port an extra 1/4in in length?

Sorry for all the questions. I've got my surrounds pretty much finished and am starting the center next!

dsl1,
I aggree with your port length calculation of 5. I think a lot of people doubled up the .75 mdf to make 1.5 for the internal port support. I calculated the extra volume, and if my calculations are right, adding .19" to your depth would compensate for the extra volume.
I haven't built the fronts yet, I am in the process of building the center, so someone else may be able to tell you if they think this will even make a difference.

dsl1, I am not sure about your calculations. If it is accepted to subtract 1/2 of the flare radius from the length of the port, you are going the wrong way as I understand it. Also, if it calls for a 1/2" roundover and you are going to use a 3/4" roundover instead, it should be half of the radius, which is 3/8 compared to half of the radius of a 1/2"=1/4"

So your difference between using a 1/2 inch or a 3/4 inch radius is only 1/8" when it is divided in 2 and you need to ADD the number to your port length, since with the radii on there, it thinks the port is shorter and you need a specific length.

Does all that make sense?

dsl1, I am not sure about your calculations. If it is accepted to subtract 1/2 of the flare radius from the length of the port, you are going the wrong way as I understand it. Also, if it calls for a 1/2" roundover and you are going to use a 3/4" roundover instead, it should be half of the radius, which is 3/8 compared to half of the radius of a 1/2"=1/4"

So your difference between using a 1/2 inch or a 3/4 inch radius is only 1/8" when it is divided in 2 and you need to ADD the number to your port length, since with the radii on there, it thinks the port is shorter and you need a specific length.

Does all that make sense?


Hum I think I am right.

"A flared port couples to the surrounding air more efficiently than an unflared one, meaning that the flared port appears shorter. The generally accepted adjustment is to subtract half the flare radius from the physical length to obtain the acoustic length. If both ends of the port are flared, the adjustment is done for each flare."

Because the bigger the flare the more efficent the port is. The plans call for a 5 1/4in with a half inch roundover. If this information about the flaring making the port more efficent I am assuming that one would need a 5 3/4in port without any flares. 5 1/4 in port + 1/2 of the radius of both roundovers (each 1/2) means I add 1/2in to the total length because the port is unflared and therefor less efficent. Now because a 3/4 flare is more efficent I need to subtract 1/2 of the radius of both flares from the port length. 5 3/4 - (3/4 + 3/4)1/2 = 5in port length including both the flared wood pieces.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

dsl1,
I aggree with your port length calculation of 5. I think a lot of people doubled up the .75 mdf to make 1.5 for the internal port support. I calculated the extra volume, and if my calculations are right, adding .19" to your depth would compensate for the extra volume.
I haven't built the fronts yet, I am in the process of building the center, so someone else may be able to tell you if they think this will even make a difference.


If you are starting on the left and rights next you will probably get there before me and can let me know what you did. I still need to get port tube for the center, finish cutting the pieces, and glue it together. Hopefully this weekend i'll have the box finished. I'm hoping to find some cardboard tube that is the right size. Rounding over pvc pipe with a roundover doesn't seem like it would be too clean.

Did you calculate using .75in thick mdf for the internal port support? The plans are using a 1in thick piece.


My building is on hold till my new bearing for my flush trim bit shows up. Hopefully today or tomorrow.

I'm hoping to find some cardboard tube that is the right size. Rounding over pvc pipe with a roundover doesn't seem like it would be too clean.
.

check this out for tips on the port installation:
http://speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Articles/porttut/porttut.htm

dsl1,
Wayne J's site that mh7519 linked is a great place to look. As for using PVC, I installed mine and then used a roundover bit to flare it. It worked very well for mine. I've been able to get flared tubes for all my other speaker projects.

dsl1,
I used a 1.5 inch thickness for the internal brace when I did my extra depth calculations due to the center support.

Here are some pictures of my construction. I went with the overkill of a separate compartment in the back for the xovers. Here is a pic before the top is on with caulk. Yes, it is a very messy caulk job.
Top View (http://tinypic.com/ek16qf.jpg)

My only concern is the distance between the inside wall of the xover cavity and the back wall of the mid sub encloure. It is 2.25", and I hope that is not somehow a port that couples the 2 midbass speakers.

Here is the back xover cavity after routing. This is the worst looking router job I have done so far. Routing the rebate for the cover was a little shaky at the top and bottom because there wasn't much for the router base to rest on. Luckily this is at the back.
Back Cover Off (http://tinypic.com/ek16s2.jpg)

Here is the back with the cover on. I did the rounded corners with a coping saw and I freehanded some lines in for the rounds. I probably should have come up with a better way because the corners don't match up really well. I am going to use industrial strength velcro to hold the cover on, and also plan to use velcro for the xovers. I have used this velcro on other projects, like a guitar pedal board, and it holds really well.
Back With Cover (http://tinypic.com/ek16va.jpg)

Now, my plan for finishing is to do a flat black baffle and cherry veneer on the body with a Sedona Red Minwax stain that I have in my garage already, followed by wipe on poly with the clear followed by satin method Jim Salk outlined earlier in this post. As far as the baffle, I want it very flat black. JL, since you seem to be the king of flat finishes, do you think Aniline dye on MDF would look good for the baffle or kilz/black paint with dead flat, or just kilz/flat black paint? Your dyed stands look very flat in the picture, but I can't get a good feel for what it really looks like up close from the picture.

JL, since you seem to be the king of flat finishes, do you think Aniline dye on MDF would look good for the baffle or kilz/black paint with dead flat, or just kilz/flat black paint? kroberts1972,
The finish you get would depend upon what you are looking for.

If you want speakers that reflect very little light, then yes, MDF dyed flat black with analine dye will do it.

If you want something looking closer to what you will see in a commercial speaker, then a flat black paint might work. Be very careful with the glue on the joints of the enclosure if you take this approach, since the dye does not soak into "glue-soaked MDF" as well as bare MDF.

You might want to experiment on a scrap or two of MDF before you put the finish on the actual front of your enclosure. Just remember, "satin" finish has a lot of gloss... less than "gloss" finish, but not "flat"

Way back in this thread I posted the name of the "dead-flat spray lacquer" I used to seal the finish. It worked out well for me, but is not as easy to find in a local hardware store. (you can mail-order it though)

Your dyed stands look very flat in the picture, but I can't get a good feel for what it really looks like up close from the picture.That's because they really don't reflect much and to even get the photos I did I had to boost the gamma in a photo-editor to be able to show any detail at all.

JL,
I have already tested a satin spray paint and found out it was too glossy. I was thinking I would get the dead flat and spray it either on dyed MDF or the satin spray paint. I will only be using this on the front baffle, and it is going to be glued on after it is painted or dyed, so I don't have to worry about joints with glue. The rest of the cabinet will be veneered while the baffle is still removed.

I put 4 dowels in the front baffle to allow it to be accurately located on the front of the cabinet. This way I can round the edges and cut the speaker holes, then remove it and paint it, then glue it on after finishing it and the cabinet. Of course I will have to be very careful when gluing it on.

How well does the dye soak into the harder top portion of the mdf? My MDF has about 1/16" of hard mdf on the surface that I don't think I will sand all the way through.

JL,
How well does the dye soak into the harder top portion of the mdf? My MDF has about 1/16" of hard mdf on the surface that I don't think I will sand all the way through.

In this photo you can see the front and rear stands before application of finish. Most of the surface is the "harder" top portion of the MDF. The edges are all rounded over and are all the "softer" cut edge.

http://home.triad.rr.com/leggio/images/ht/projects/RearStandsP7150835-1.jpg

I applied no sealer to the MDF and simply brushed the water based aniliine dye mixture on. I think they got two coats of dye. You cannot easily tell the softer material from the harder MDF once finished. (You might have to load this photo into your picture editor in otder to boost the gamma to see much detail... like I said, they do not reflect much light)

After the dye, the rear channel stands and front L/R looked like this... Note that the rear channel and center channel speaker enclosures have a satin finish and are not dead flat like the front L/R channel enclosures.
http://home.triad.rr.com/leggio/images/ht/projects/FinishedStandsP7280837.jpg

What should I do to add extra bracing for the center channel? I am sure this question is answered somewhere in the last 70 pages so sorry for asking.

I already cut the bottom the pieces and trimmed them to the right sizes so I hope I do not have to add any extra volume to the enclosure for the bracing. If i have to remake the top and bottom pieces again thats okay if the bracing is important.

I got all my cutouts in the front and back done but I am still waiting on a new flush trim bit. Should be here wednesday. Port tube is installed in the back piece.

I built mine as well as another using the stock plans. I did double the baffles to 1.5-inches. All other panels were 3/4"

What should I do to add extra bracing for the center channel? I am sure this question is answered somewhere in the last 70 pages so sorry for asking.

I already cut the bottom the pieces and trimmed them to the right sizes so I hope I do not have to add any extra volume to the enclosure for the bracing. If i have to remake the top and bottom pieces again thats okay if the bracing is important.

I got all my cutouts in the front and back done but I am still waiting on a new flush trim bit. Should be here wednesday. Port tube is installed in the back piece.

What should I do to add extra bracing for the center channel? I am sure this question is answered somewhere in the last 70 pages so sorry for asking.
I added two small pieces of MDF between the midrange enclosure and the outer side walls. I did not change any dimensions to account for the volume they occupied. They were positioned high enough to not block the ports in any way. I force fit them first (they were a real tight fit) and then glued them in place.

Joe L.

You can see those two braces in the enclosure in this picture when looking through the woofer cutouts.
http://home.triad.rr.com/leggio/images/ht/projects/PA200334.jpg

Great thanks. My new flush trim bit should be here early next week and I can finish off the center.

So I veneered with cherry last night using the iron on method. I did the top bottom and sides with a continuous piece and used a steam iron to bend against the grain around the corners.
http://tinypic.com/erzxgw.jpg
Here is the back
http://tinypic.com/erzxbq.jpg
and here is the baffle
http://tinypic.com/erzx9e.jpg

Overall the iron on method worked OK for me. I had the veneer and the box coated in Elmers wood glue (2 coats), but I still had a few areas that were tough to get down near the edges. I think it is all held down now, I just hope it stays that way.

So I veneered with cherry last night using the iron on method. I did the top bottom and sides with a continuous piece and used a steam iron to bend against the grain around the corners.
kroberts1972,
Wow... that looks really nice.

Joe L.

Thanks Joe!
I couldn't be doing this if it wasn't for your account of building the speakers. So far, it is a lot of fun, I can't wait to hear it, but I am trying to be patient so I don't cut too many corners.

Here is a picture of my finished Audax Center
http://tinypic.com/f1h5hj.jpg
I used Minwax Sedona Red Stain with 6 coats of Minwax gloss wipe on poly and 2 coats of Minwax Satin Wipe On Poly. There are some drips in it, but you can't see them very well and I want to use it, so I am going to call it a day with the poly. This was a great first experience building a real speaker, previously I had only built a few particle board bass boxes when I was a teenager, that was quite a few years ago now.

Here is a picture of the back crossover compartment
http://tinypic.com/f1h5so.jpg

Here is a picture of the back closed up
http://tinypic.com/f1h5xg.jpg

When I installed the midrange driver, it chipped off a little of the flat black around the mid driver, you can see it between 3 & 4 o'clock on the baffle around the mid. I was thinking of trying to put a big spray of the flat black into a small container and then brush it on. Has anyone tried this?

Thanks for all of the great discussion and information.

Looks awesome. Great job on the choice of finish and everything.

As for the paint, do as you were thinking and it should work out fine.

Thanks Scott. After one coat of stain, I was a little worried, but 2 coats got the stain the way I wanted it. Then as I added coats of poly, it just kept looking better and better. The flat black worked out nice on the baffle too. It doesn't reflect any light and the speaker dissapears with the lights off even though it is pretty close to the bottom of my screen.

Looks great - now, just crack open a beer and enjoy those puppies. As for your little scrape boo-boo, try using a Sharpie marker to color in the black. I use this method all the time on black objects to fix "so-called" boo-boos.

Thanks Mike, the sharpie idea worked pretty good. Probably just as good as trying to brushpaint flat spray paint on there.

kroberts1972,

Simply awesome. That is a beautiful looking center channel.

How did you finally finish the front? I know you said the first black paint you tried was too glossy, and I can see you primed the front before spraying on the black finish. You asked about my black analine dye on MDF, clearly you did not use it as you said it was a sprayed finish.

Was from a spray can? What brand and type? Hardly any reflections at all exist in the picture. Good that it disappears when you turn the lights down and watch a movie. Very nice color on the sides and back of the enclosure.

You have come a long way since the particle board bass boxes you built as a teenager.

Now... tell us what you think of its sound. What did it replace? Are you planning to build the left and right channels to match?

Joe L.

Joe,
The spray paint is Americas Finest flat black spray, made by Rust Oleum. I think I got it at Lowes. It does a great job of dissapearing, but it isn't super durable so I have to be careful. Is the dead flat durable? If so, I will probably order that and try it over gloss or satin for the next speakers. Next in line are the fronts and rears. I have a little more vacation time than my wife, so I will be taking off a week before the end of the year to work on them. I will also be getting a table saw to help with the effort.

It replaced an infinity center from the HTS 20 system. I bought it about 4 years ago. It is a huge improvement. Last night speech was clearer, but it had a bump in the mids and the lows weren't quite as present as I had hoped. This morning I realized I had forgotten the fiberfill and after letting the speaker play all day and putting the fiberfill in, it sounds awesome. It seems that the bass response is much better than last night after the break in, and the mids are much smoother and less harsh with the fiberfill. A great replacement. A friend of mine from out of town showed up unexpectedly tonight and he didn't believe I had built it myself. I am very satisfied with this speaker.

Kevin

Kevin, you may want to try a little experament with some of your black paint and top it off with some of the ultra-flat laquer that Joe and I have both used. It should put a coating on the paint so that it isn't as sensitive to touch as well as oils (from hands...) making it shiny.

Thanks Scott,
I will definitely try that. I will order it and do some tests before I finish the next set of speakers.

Kevin

Kroberts1972,

That center is really beatiful to look at.

I did mine about a year ago. They're Dennis Murphy's MB20's. I'll post pics soon. I couldn't have done it with out some of the guidance from the guys here.

The right and left are my first attempts and I was so excited I rushed the box making a little. I didn't have anything but a 3/8" roundover bit and a sander. Finish is 3 coats eggshell latex, rolled on. Sounds great, looks like a freshman woodshop project, but you can't see it during a movie.

The center I took more time, bought more bits and tools, and enjoyed the process more. Finish is 6 coats eggshell latex, sprayed on, with 300 grit sandings between coats. This takes a LONG time considering it took me about an hour to clean the sprayer after each coat, but the results were worth it. Sounds great, looks decent, absolutley invisible while watching movies.

I have to say in the past several months I've had these, I've had more complements on the sound quality than I could have hoped for. A few friends have promised to scrap their bose systems (or ideas of buyingthem) and replace with a set of these. At about $100 each for parts you really can't go wrong.

I recently started another pair and I'm going to try my hand at veneering. I picked up some Tiger Maple veneer and I'm experimenting with methods of attachment. So far my favorite method has been epoxy resin because I have a ton of it and it doesn't discolor if it bleeds at the edges. But I will need to buy more tools :D to do the seams right. Any ideas on how best to finish these for a natural look without being glossy? Would some sort of poly work? (These are going to replace my current left and right, with the originals either getting new boxes or just religated to surrounds.) After this project, and once my woodworking skills and patience has increased, I'm thinking of doing the Audax system.

This forum will never cease to amaze me. I am of course a noobie and I am in the process of building my HT. I don't mean to hijack this great thread but can you guys suggest a DIY kit that I should get ? I have no experience whatsoever with electronics or crossovers but I'm a pretty good woodworker. I figure if I built the cabinets myself I could probably have a more higher end system for less $$$. I was thinking of doing the Audax kit as I'm very impressed with the looks of it but do you guys have any other suggestions ? My room size is 16x23 but will upgrade to a bigger one in the near future. Also what are you guys using to run these speakers ? Separates or Receivers ? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

I would EASILY recommend http://www.timn8er.com/alegria_audio_rosa_tl.htm

Be sure to check out Noth Creek Music...

http://northcreekmusic.com/

Hey rtuimauga, maybe if you let people know where you live, you can find somebody in this thread that has a kit or DIY design in use? Heck, I found out there was a guy in my city that ended up making the Audax speakers.

Hey rtuimauga, maybe if you let people know where you live, you can find somebody in this thread that has a kit or DIY design in use? Heck, I found out there was a guy in my city that ended up making the Audax speakers.


Sorry. I'm in Kansas city, MO

Anyone know if he's around anyone on the forum who has done a kit?

Gyvven,
For a flat finish, I haven't tried it, but Joe L. used a product called Dead Flat over analine dye, so you should might able to use it over bare wood. Dead Flat is made by a company named Behlen. I am going to get some to try out for my next set of baffles. I used flat black on the center and I am looking for something more durable.

I used 2 coats of satin wipe on poly over 6 coats of gloss wipe on poly and it isn't a flat finish. The gloss is used to build up a good amount of poly before putting the satin on so it doesn't end up looking milky. It still has a good amount of gloss to it, but from a seated position, you don't see it in my ht, just the flat black baffle.

I used the same stuff as Joe L. when I made my equipment rack. No shine at all. When you are spraying it on, you see the shine, which is good so you can see where you just sprayed it, but by the time it dries, you don't see gloss at all.

rtuimauga,
My first speaker was the 18" cylinder w/a 15" subwoofer. My second speaker was the Audax center channel followed by the rest of the Audax HT speakers. They are actually pretty easy to assemble. I used pegboard for my xovers and I attached the xover components with cable ties. It was all very neat and I'm still loving them. There are some nice webpages that show you how to read an xover schematic and assemble them. I liked this one on the Solen site: http://www.solen.ca/cross.htm I've since built a set of MBOW1s, Dayton 2-ways, Buschhorns, another subwoofer, and I'm now building some large corner horns for 2-channel.

QUOTE=rtuimauga]This forum will never cease to amaze me. I am of course a noobie and I am in the process of building my HT. I don't mean to hijack this great thread but can you guys suggest a DIY kit that I should get ? I have no experience whatsoever with electronics or crossovers but I'm a pretty good woodworker. I figure if I built the cabinets myself I could probably have a more higher end system for less $$$. I was thinking of doing the Audax kit as I'm very impressed with the looks of it but do you guys have any other suggestions ? My room size is 16x23 but will upgrade to a bigger one in the near future. Also what are you guys using to run these speakers ? Separates or Receivers ? Any help will be greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Guys,
Due to placement restrictions, I am thinking of flying the rear speakers of the Audax set. Does anyone know of a discussion thread on this, or a good way to integrate a good looking attachment into the speakers? I was thinking of a hole drilled in the top of the speakers from the front to back with a metal rod in it before the baffle and second back layer were installed. Then, removing a small amount of the wood to expose the rod in 2 points along each side, leaving me attachment points.

Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks,
Kevin

Couldn't find the link, but Omni-mount, or omnimount, (dot com) makes a full line of high end wall and ceiling mounts.

I would not suggest what you were saying, just get something like Moonhawk pointed out and screw it to the back of the speaker. Simple. No need for anything more extravagent.

These are the ones I used and are at Best Buy:
http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/3463/3463790_ra.jpg
http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/3463/3463790cv1a.jpg
They are made to hold speakers up to 25 pounds each.

BTW, if you need to ceiling mount them, you may need a different model. I mounted mine to the wall and the one shown in the package worked fine, the lower pic shows the ceiling mount.

http://www.omnimountpro.com/

Scott,
Were you talking to me when you said I don't need anything more extravagent?
I would like to use the ceiling mount bracket you showed, but I have 10' ceileings, so I was thinking of flying them so that I could get the bottoms of the speakers down to 7'. The problem is that I have an opening on one side of my room, so I don't have any wall there. If I just mount to the 10' ceiling and aim at the listening position will I be OK? I would certainly prefer that.

Go to the link I sent...They have all kinds of extensions and mounting systems so you can extend them down to whatever level you like....

Scott,
Were you talking to me when you said I don't need anything more extravagent?
I would like to use the ceiling mount bracket you showed, but I have 10' ceileings, so I was thinking of flying them so that I could get the bottoms of the speakers down to 7'. The problem is that I have an opening on one side of my room, so I don't have any wall there. If I just mount to the 10' ceiling and aim at the listening position will I be OK? I would certainly prefer that.

Yes, I was talking to you. Sorry, should have done the quote thing like this to make sure you knew that. I would reccomend putting the speakers up at the ceiling level and point them. That is one reason why receivers/processors have the whole distance thing in the set-up as well as individual volume control. Once you get everything set up, do the whole measurement thing and get an SPL meter and get all the volumes set equal based on a test tone.

Hanging speakers from a ceiling down 3 feet would either be problematic by having long rods hanging or cable or something like that. It would be too much work to get them set properly using cables so that leaves you with a rod and bracket. It's only 3 feet difference, I would hang them up close to the ceiling.

Thanks Scott! I'll give that a shot. It will make my life a whole lot easier.

I just finished my Audax Center channel except veener which I am not even sure i'll do considering I am going to be building an acoustically transparent screen and the center is going behind it.

Anyhow WOW!

This is one crisp and clean sounding speaker. Far better then my friends fairly high end Klipsch center channel. I am very happy and am looking forward to it being totally broken in. Enclosures for the surrounds are built and I have to build the L/R enclosures. This is going to be an amazing system for the price.

Awesome dsl1, I am really enjoying mine as it breaks in. Next week I will start on the fronts and surrounds. I just got a ryobi bt3100 table saw and my wife will be out of town for 9 days, so I will be doing a lot of work.

Kevin

Awesome dsl1, I am really enjoying mine as it breaks in. Next week I will start on the fronts and surrounds. I just got a ryobi bt3100 table saw and my wife will be out of town for 9 days, so I will be doing a lot of work.

Kevin


I'm going shopping tomorrow so hopefully i'll have time to grab some more MDF for the left and right speakers and the screen frame. Second speaker goes much much faster then the first speaker and when you are building two of the same speakers you can make one peice of wood the right size and then flush trim the rest to that size. You will speed through the next speakers. In 9 days you can have those speakers built and broken in already :D Then start on a sub quickly while your wife is away :P

I'm going shopping tomorrow so hopefully i'll have time to grab some more MDF for the left and right speakers and the screen frame. :P

How are you going to make a/the screen frame? I'd like to make one, grandkids... :)

There is a DIY Screen forum here within AVS, there should be more information than you ever thought you needed over there. DIY screen section (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=110)

As Scott said, go to the diy screen section. I built one from Dazian acoustically transparent screen fabric. There are a couple of threads on this type of screen. It works great! I replaced a Dalite screen with it. My total cost was ~$100.

:cool: Once again PE has the Audax AP 170 ZO on a DOTD sale for $24ea until tomorrow. Limit is 8.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=296-165&dotd=111005

Hmm, I have been thinking about making some new speakers, something with 3 mids and two tweeters each and the squared off flanges of my Audax HM170C0's was a pain. I like the round ones on the one's on sale.

Hmm.

I may jump in now and build my own. I've read just about the entire thread but I still wondering about placement? The literature says 3 feet from a wall. Is that absolutely necessary? If i fudge it a little bit how much of a diff is there? Anyone experimeted with this?

Also anyone have any recomendations for the quality of crossover parts at parts express. Which brands should i get?

I may jump in now and build my own. I've read just about the entire thread but I still wondering about placement? The literature says 3 feet from a wall. Is that absolutely necessary? If i fudge it a little bit how much of a diff is there? Anyone experimeted with this?

Also anyone have any recomendations for the quality of crossover parts at parts express. Which brands should i get?


You check madisound's kits? They turn out to be about the same price as the parts from parts express. If you still do feel like building your own crossovers by all means go ahead but understand its a hassle you don't need to deal with and you still get the same preformance.

While 3 feet from a wall is just an ideal placement. If you can't do this it will still sound fine although maybe not quite as great. Remember the LCR's are ported so you will need to have some room behind the speakers so they can "breath"

Ok I'm really looking into doing the Audax HT kit now and need a few ?'s answered before I pull the trigger. First to those who have built these and have them in use, how are these compared to brand name speakers ? I mean it's gonna cost me about $1k for the kit and materials to build but if I was to buy ready made name brand speakers with the same quality as these how much would I expect to pay ? What kind of receiver would do these things justice ? I'm currently looking at Yamaha RX-V4600, Denon AVR-3806 & 4806, and HK 7300. Any suggestions ? Also if I wanted to do 7.1 are there dipole/bipoles that can be made to go with these speakers ? I think thats it for now, any help will be appreciated.

Anyone ?

rtuimauga,
I only have the center done, but I am currently working on the fronts and rears. In previous posts the center has been compared to those costing around $1000. I haven't done any head to head comparisons in my HT, but the center is a huge improvement over my old infinity center from the HTS20 system. I am using a Yamaha HTR-5860 and it works fine with the center, and it should work fine with the others. There is discussion of recievers farther back in the thread.

Ok I'm really looking into doing the Audax HT kit now and need a few ?'s answered before I pull the trigger. First to those who have built these and have them in use, how are these compared to brand name speakers ? I mean it's gonna cost me about $1k for the kit and materials to build but if I was to buy ready made name brand speakers with the same quality as these how much would I expect to pay ? What kind of receiver would do these things justice ? I'm currently looking at Yamaha RX-V4600, Denon AVR-3806 & 4806, and HK 7300. Any suggestions ? Also if I wanted to do 7.1 are there dipole/bipoles that can be made to go with these speakers ? I think thats it for now, any help will be appreciated.


Any of those recievers should be fine to run the Audax set. However, it depends on how large a space you have. I have a smallish living room, and I have absolutely no issues running my Pioneer 1014.

As far as how the speakers sound compared to retail.... Well IMHO I think there's no comparison. I've sold home audio at a well-known electronics retailer, and the markup from wholesale to retail alone is rediculous. If you know someone who can get you a employee purchase deal- direct from the manufacturer- then it's not a bad deal. But if that's not available to you, it's generall agreed that you'd have to spend at least 2.5-3x at a retail store for the same quality. Some say you'd have to spend as much as 4x the DIY cost, but I don't quite buy that. it you don't have the tools necessary, then the DIY cost is much, much higher.

Keep in mind, DIY is a hobby as well. It's hard to just build one thing and be done with it. And with store bought, you don't have the pride of telling people you built those beautiful sounding speakers.

I am looking to make a DIY center. I like the Audax, but the Audax is just too tall for my tastes. Is there any other really nice DIY center plans that are not so tall and boxy. I have Fluance AV-HTB fronts and surrounds, I would just like to make my own center because I am really curious about getting into DIY audio and home theater. Can't wait to hear everyone's comments.

-Kyle

rtuimauga, any info on the room these would go into? bi or di-poles may not be what you should be using. Depends on the room and how the side speakers would be mounted (where). If the side speakers are far enough away, I would think using the same design as the rear speakers would work fine. That's the easy way. The other way would be to get in touch with Madisound's LEAP department, let them know you are doing the Audax kit and are going to make some di-poles to match and you want them to design a crossover for you. You could have the midrange mount on the front and the tweeters on the sides, or go for the gusto and do mids and tweets facing both forward and backwards.

Guys, thanks for the responses and comments. It makes things a whole lot easier. Like I said in my first post here, I have no knowledge with Xovers, speaker building or anything but I am a decent woodworker. Will the kits from Madisound be easy enough to follow for a novice like myself ? Where can I find the build sheets/instructions for building the cabinets ? Also what DIY subwoofer would complement the Audax kit the most ? I need to look into that also.

rtuimauga, any info on the room these would go into? bi or di-poles may not be what you should be using. Depends on the room and how the side speakers would be mounted (where).
The room size right now is only 10'x20'. I know it isn't huge but it will be. This is just a temp. setup until I put it into a room almost 2x the size. The bi/dipoles will be mounted on the side walls.
get in touch with Madisound's LEAP department,

Could not find a link to these guys on their website.

I am looking to make a DIY center. I like the Audax, but the Audax is just too tall for my tastes. Is there any other really nice DIY center plans that are not so tall and boxy. I have Fluance AV-HTB fronts and surrounds, I would just like to make my own center because I am really curious about getting into DIY audio and home theater. Can't wait to hear everyone's comments.

-Kyle


You can change the dimensions of the center channel as long as you keep the internal volume the same. You still have to make it big enough to fit the drivers though ;)

However check this center out.

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/cynosure/index.html

The room size right now is only 10'x20'. I know it isn't huge but it will be. This is just a temp. setup until I put it into a room almost 2x the size. The bi/dipoles will be mounted on the side walls.


Could not find a link to these guys on their website.

rtuimauga, click here to read about their services: http://www.madisound.com/leap.html I guess you just need to call them and tell them what you want to do and they will direct you to the right extension.

FYI, I assume you are already planning on making the speakers to fit into the larger room, as that will be the final configuration? If not, I would suggest it. Actually, I would probably only suggest that you do 5.1 for the small room and add the two side speakers to get to 7.1 when you switch to the larger room.

BTW, if you get close to 2x the size of 10'x20', that will be a VERY large room if you are going to use the whole area for a home theater. I hope you are not limited to 8' ceiling height for that!

rtuimauga,
A couple of years ago, after building my Audax, I compared the center to some high-end speakers. I really thought it sounded as good as some and better than others. I'd say you'd have to spend at least $1k to be comparable or better than the center in build quailty and sound. I also did a weight comparison using a copy of one of the HT mags. They were doing their annual listing of AV equipment specs. I looked at center channel speakers that were of similar weight to ours and if I recall correctly, they were all over $1k. Now I know that is no true comparison because we could easily put crap drivers and no xovers into a heavy box. But, that isn't what we've done with our Audax. The weight comparison does tell us that speakers with quality cabinets will not be cheap. FYI, my center channel and it's stand weigh over 100lbs. The speaker weighs ~50lbs.

I built a full 7 speaker set of Audax. I'd say you'd have to spend over $2.5k to do better. I built a cylinder sub and I figure it would also cost ~$1k if I bought it.

I see you have the HK7300 listed. I have the HK7200 which was the previous model and I love it. It has HUGE power! Like the Audax center channel, it's a behemoth and you'll need a very strong shelf to support it's weight. I'm pretty sure JL still has his 7200 also. It really depends on the sound you like. The HK has a warm sound. I used to have a Denon and I think it was also a warm sounding unit. I think the Yamahas are a bit brighter.

The best thing anyone can do to get the full potential of their speaker system is to TREAT their room. My dedicated HT is acoustically treated on all four walls. The front wall is treated from floor to ceiling. Also, the side walls in the front are treated floor to ceiling for the first three feet. The rest of the walls are treated from the floor up to four feet.

If you can, get a dedicated circuit to power your system. I have a 20amp breaker just for the amps and pj in the HT.

I traded a few messages with the guru's on the IB cult forum and think I'm going to face both drivers forward as in the following 3D illustration.


Pictures will follow as construction progresses...

Joe L.


Any progress Joe?

Yeah Joe, what ever happened to the stage that would be a sub?

Where can I find the build sheets/instructions for building the cabinets ? Anyone have a link ?

Also what DIY subwoofer would complement the Audax kit the most ? I seen one made out of a sonotube once, will this work and where can I find out more about it ?

The first speaker I ever built was a cylinder sub built from a sono tube. That was over 3-yrs ago. I still have a link to the build site.
http://europa70.tripod.com/diy_sonosub001.htm

Anyone have a link ?

I seen one made out of a sonotube once, will this work and where can I find out more about it ?

Jeff,

Would you recommend this sub for my Audax Kit ? How do you like it ?

First to answer your quesions: 1. YES. 2. Love it.

It's pretty easy to build and will blow away most any other sub in the <$1000 range. I have a pretty large room (16x26 ft) and you can feel the pressure waves. Mine is hidden behind the screen and false wall. It is over 6ft tall and the end caps are around 20" diameter. Most people stand them up but I've seen several laying on their side. For power, don't use anything less than a 250 watt plate amp. A good subwoofer is definitely the most impressive and noticeable speaker you can add to your HT. Pop in something like the first Lord of the Rings movie and play the Balin's Tomb chapter and you'll know what I mean. JL, who is well known on this thread also has a sono sub (until he completes his new stage sub). His is nearly the same as mine. For $500, you can't do any better.

It's taken me three weeks to get through this entire thread...

You guys have made some beautiful speakers, and your attention to detail is astounding.

A question. As i consider the option of making these, a WAF thing comes to mind (I showed my wife some of the pictures in the thread), I am curious if any of you have considered the full finished look with a speakercloth/grill front? Not that the open speaker look isn't cool, but I was curious about anyone's thoughts on this.

Again, fabulous work here guys...

-Randy

My center channel has a grille. I only did it because in our old HT, it was low and I didn't want little fingers poking the drivers. Now, they're all behind a false wall and an acoustically transparent screen.

You can get the little plastic guides at Parts Express. I think they also have magnetic ones.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&&DID=7&CATID=48&ObjectGroup_ID=141

Nothing wrong with grilles. But for me, it's another thing to break. I don't have kids, so I don't have to hide the drivers. You have to specially clean grilles using a vacuum. and I like the look of the drivers.

There are other reasons not to use grilles. They can detract from the sound. If the face of the drivers are sitting flush with the front baffle and you have a grille that extends out from that same face, you now have something in the way of the sound wave as it develops and leaves the cone. The best sounding speakers are ones with either no grille at all or a grille that does not protrude and effect the sound wave. Now, remember, that what I am saying is based off of opinions and testing done by people with what some people call "Golden ears". Normal people will never notice the difference and in the world of home theater, you have too many other things that you are trying to overcome, so worrying about the grilles and sound waves may be overkill.

Anyway, just an opinion.

I didn't want grilles on mine when I first made them and had them on display, now the main and rear speakers are wrapped with grille cloth so they blend in with the surroundings. The only drivers I can see are the center channel.

Okay..........now I've seen THESE (http://www.madisound.com/vifa_av.html) and was wondering if anyone has any experience with these or have even heard them. What do you guys think ? They cost alot more than the Audax kit but will the difference be worth it ?

Northcreek, dude....

If you are looking for something different than the Audax kit, check out GR Research
http://www.gr-research.com/
Also as moonhawk said, there is Northcreek. The kits from Adire were also good. However, I don't think they are in the diy market any longer.

wow i just realised i finally made it through this whole thread lol only took me like 3 days though :-P anyways has anyone actually used or heard the gr-research speakers i was looking at them and i like their designs a lot and i wanted to use floor standings for the fronts and they have a floor standing kit so just curious how they compare to the audax kit are they better? or at least equal sounding? the whole kit cost would be a little more but still within my budget as i was planning on buying a whole Klipsch Reference line HT and this will be much cheaper and as good if not better from what i read thanks in advanced for any help

Dennis Murphy uses the GR M130 Woofer in one of his designs.

MBOW1 Speaker (http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=MBOW1.html)

I have a set of MBOW1 in my upstairs 2-channel system. The xovers are what make Dennis' speakers so nice. I will say the Hiquphon OW1 tweets are maybe too much for the GRs. If I ever find a speaker design that uses them, I may pull them out and build something else with them.

I still haven't started building my corner horns. I have all the components and they're going to be huge. I just can't decide how I want to finish them.


Dennis Murphy uses the GR M130 Woofer in one of his designs.

MBOW1 Speaker (http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=MBOW1.html)

would they be good for a home theatre setup though in like 5.1 or possiby 7.1? and if not do you know another kit that has Floor standing speakers that would be great for surround sound? of course i just want the floor standings for my fronts but i want a speaker system that will be better then the klipsch's i wanted which would be the RB-35's with the matching surrounds

I've heard most of the GR speakers. IMO, they are comparable to the Audax but I think they are a little more expensive. There is a company east of Atlanta that builds them. They also supply GR with ready to use cabinets. I've heard the AV1, 2, 3 and the center channel. They have also built the giant GR Line Array. Check out Rutledge Audio Design (RAD): http://www.radhometheater.com/services.htm

wow i just realised i finally made it through this whole thread lol only took me like 3 days though :-P anyways has anyone actually used or heard the gr-research speakers i was looking at them and i like their designs a lot and i wanted to use floor standings for the fronts and they have a floor standing kit so just curious how they compare to the audax kit are they better? or at least equal sounding? the whole kit cost would be a little more but still within my budget as i was planning on buying a whole Klipsch Reference line HT and this will be much cheaper and as good if not better from what i read thanks in advanced for any help

so then you at least like them as much as the audax?

Yes, if you want a floor stander, these are pretty darned good speakers. The AV3 is what you want if you're looking for a floorstander. IMO, the Audax CC stands out because it is a true CC and not a standard speaker turned on it's side. I also listened to the Adire speakers and they were very nice. However, I still liked the clarity of the Audax center better than the Adire. I compared the Audax to a high-end Meadowlark speaker that was over $1,000 and was was still VERY happy!


so then you at least like them as much as the audax?

well GR Research has a sealed center channel which will make all my speakers sealed which isnt really a bad thing...im not sure whats better sealed or ported im sure it depends on the speaker and what not but i would use the the AV 3's for fronts the AV 3S for the center and the AV1RS for the rears sound like a good setup? also would it be worth it to do their little cap upgrade to the Sonicaps? they say that they're better

would they be good for a home theatre setup though in like 5.1 or possiby 7.1? and if not do you know another kit that has Floor standing speakers that would be great for surround sound? of course i just want the floor standings for my fronts but i want a speaker system that will be better then the klipsch's i wanted which would be the RB-35's with the matching surrounds


You do know than you can pretty much make any bookshelf type speaker, even the Audax also as a floor stander type if you want to. By basically just building it as a taller tower/floor stander, instead of a "bookshelf" type, and that it is separated internally by a divider. All you need to do is keep the internal volume and size of the enclosure of top part where the speakers are, at the same amounts/size as shown in the Audax plans. And then the lower part (the floor standing part) can be made as a extension of that, and pretty much as anything and as any size/height that you want it to be at.

yea i havnt really thought about that i was looking for plans for a floor standing because then i know that it wont go wrong and get messed up lol i also want somthing that sounds amazing which im sure the audax do i dont know the gr research av3's they have on the site just look really nice and its kind of interesting how the mids overlap the tweeter and they offer parts upgrades for their crossover design like the Sonicap so i thought maybe their crossover components are better quality but im not sure its been a long time sence i was in electronics classes lol dont remember a lot :) also i dont really like having dead cavities that do nothing im not a person that has somthing just for looks really i like it to be functional and if i did that they would bassically be on stands i want the whole cabinet to be functional...maybe i could modify the audax design and add some more mids or somthing lol but i dont know if that would help sound or not would it?