You can get regular channel 8 on regular cable, so I think it should also apply to HD. Don't you think? Why would they not have the same channels they have on basic cable and if avalible show the HD channel.

It depends if the station(s) have given must carry or retransmission consent. Things like network nonduplication and syndicated exclusivity rights also have a say. Back when I use to live in a town that actually had cable tv we received two ABC stations. If they both had the same show on then the minor station ABC-6 would get blacked out and replaced with a scroll saying, "you can't see this because your eyes belong to another station."

Yeah I agree I don't see Comcast putting Ch 8 on in HD, they will be Locals 22, 40, 3 and Hopefully Ch 61 but the greatest HD Content comes from CBS so hopefully they'll get with the program, and as far as the Pats games, none were HD last year and I don't see that changing. CBS will just have some college and Playoff games in HD

Like probably a lot of you, due to the addition of ESPN HD to the system with others to come, I am now shelling out my $2/mo (good deal!) for a HD Comcast box. I also noticed that they added WGBY, so I couldn't help but do a A/B comparison during one of the demo loops. Anyone else notice that the picture quality looks ever so slightly better from the over the air transmission ? I'm not complaining; the Comcast picture looks just great... and doesn't drop out like my antenna has a tendency to... it just is slightly... degraded. Anyone else notice it?

Dan

Thought I read CBS will do at least 1 game a week in HD. Who they choose to show is unknown but 1 game a week would be fine. They could also do more then 1 game, but I don't know the complete details. Hey Scarpad you did say that channel 808 is showing on your guide right? Who else would it be if not WTNH.

First of all if CBS does show just the playoff games with no regular Pats season games, then we'll still see all the PATS games in the PLAYOFFS !!(Ain't that right PATS fans) Besides we still have our Sunday night games on ESPNHD anyway. And if 40 comes around then we'll be all set for Monday Nights, and then we also have the Thursday Night games latter in the season on ESPNHD....

Well I hope 808 does becaome WTNH. As for Ch 57 Pic quality My DTC100 is not hooked up at the moment so I cannot really A-B, but from what I remember I think you're right the Comcast signal is slightly softer. But I guess it's a trade off for not dropping out every now and then. I wonder how possibly adding three more HD Channels will affect their bandwidth? Just how much bandwidth does Comcast have for HD? I hope enough to add Discovery HD !

CBS has an agrrement with direct tv to furnish one game each week in HD. Perhaps this will be the Pats sometimes if they do well. I would assume that they will furnish each CBS affiliate this game in HD for OTA and possibly on Comcast. In any case DT would be better than analog.

Has anybody noticed that WWLP (22-3) has had a blank green screen the last few days. But during High Def shows (American Dreams) it worked fine.

Has anyone noticed a drop in WGBY's signal strength? I have not been able to receive it above 30 over the last few weeks. I usually get it between 44- 51. The last thing I was able to watch was SoundStage with Tom Petty back in early July.

Yeah not only WGBY but WWLP 22 signal has dropped way down for me. It used to be high 90's but now it's in the mid 60's. Yeah the green screen has been going on for a few days, dont know whats going on there. Did you guys see the game on monday night in HD on WGGB 40, niether did I, they suck. Later

WTNH has been coming in a bit better lately. Only a few total (audio & video) dropouts and they only lasted a second or two. MNF was awesome - except the Bucs lost. But... it's only preseason :)

Andy

Damn you Andy, just kidding man. That must be nice to have a station that was willing to do what had to be done to get HD on the air. I really hope that WTNH is added to the Comcast lineup. It is part of regular cable so hopfully it will continue in HD. Your going to have alot of football this year in HD, and it looks like Fox61 will go live the first of November. Enhanced tv is way better then standard any day. Even better they will have to go HD soon anyway.

Hey, I'm hoping Springfield ABC gets it together too. I actually can get a better signal with them. At least last time I messed with the UHF antenna. Heck they're a lot closer to me than WTNH!

Hang in there. Eventually everyone will come around :)

Send channel 40 an email at least. let them know how unhappy you are. Eventually they'll get the hint.

Hang in there. Eventually everyone will come around

The problem is that we've been waiting for stations like WGGB to come around for over a year. You'd think that a station with a competitor (WWLP) in such close proximity would do everything they could to stay ahead of the curve. Apparently, my thoughts are incorrect:mad:. However, I too think that we'll probably see WTNH in high-def cable. At least I hope that's the case!

I've also emailed WFSB twice in the past two weeks, to see if I could get any insight as to where they stand with Comcast and HDTV. I haven't heard a response yet. Nevertheless, I'm still taking the plunge and having my digital cable and HDTV installed on Thursday, the 26th. I "early adopted" with an HDTV RPTV 3 years ago, and I think it's about time I start receiving some HDTV stations!

Oh man, you got an HDTV three years ago? That's like having a Ferrari in the garage without wheels! :D

Hey, let us know how the install goes. It's been a battle for some folks. I'm still at waters edge on cable. I've got Dish but I may soon switch. I'm waiting a bit to hear more from Dish and to see what's available on Comcast when Dish makes there long awaited "announcements". Gee, now that I think about it I haven't cable since... 1990!

Andy

Hey Thumper I've sent channel 40 about 40 e-mails letting them know how unhappy I was, not one reply. I dont think anyone has gotten a reply from channel 40 regarding HD. If anyone has please let us know what the said.

This isn't really over the air, but I just read that NESN is going to start broadcasting all Red Sox and Bruins home games in high def starting tomorrow 9/16/03. Comcast is the only provider right now, but I'm hoping directv will get it soon.

I just got off the phone with Comcast (I live in Westfield). Right now because I have Directv I only subscribe to minimum basic cable, which gives me only the local stations. I thought the comcast high def package would require digital cable subscription (approx $40) but it doesn't. All I have to pay is the $7 HD box rental fee. They are coming Friday to hook it up. I'll post after that with any comments.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I just got off the phone with Comcast (I live in Westfield). Right now because I have Directv I only subscribe to minimum basic cable, which gives me only the local stations. I thought the comcast high def package would require digital cable subscription (approx $40) but it doesn't. All I have to pay is the $7 HD box rental fee. They are coming Friday to hook it up. I'll post after that with any comments.

KEK, I would be very interested in your results. I too have only minimum basic cable costing $3.95 a month as I have DirecTv HD receivers & DTivo units. Please clarify how much you are shelling out each month for your Comcast tv sub. This would be huge as INHD 1 & 2 channels launched today and it is not available on DirecTv. Looking forward to your comments.

INHD is on the air, channels 881,882 WOW

And still no local broadcast.

Originally posted by CraigD
KEK, I would be very interested in your results. I too have only minimum basic cable costing $3.95 a month as I have DirecTv HD receivers & DTivo units. Please clarify how much you are shelling out each month for your Comcast tv sub. This would be huge as INHD 1 & 2 channels launched today and it is not available on DirecTv. Looking forward to your comments.


I am also currently only paying $4 a month for minimum basic. My new bill will have the additional $7.25 for the HD box rental. I just thought of something else, I am not currently paying for NESN through Comcast, so I doubt that channel will be included. Hopefully I can add NESN for $10 or so. Then I can drop it from my Directv bill.

I think Local Channels are coming they have them in Boston and the channel Designations are there, I think they are just having a tough time sucuring the Legalties. Still with the addition of INHD Comcast clearly supasses what DTV has. They've been trying to get me to come back but I only have a DTC 100 I'd have to buy all new equipment to replace the two Hidef Comcast Boxes. It looks like INHD will carry alot of the same stuff HDNet does.... I'm Psyched my HDTV options have tripled

Originally posted by -KEK-
I just thought of something else, I am not currently paying for NESN through Comcast, so I doubt that channel will be included.


Good point...let us know how it all works out for you.

Originally posted by bob118
INHD is on the air, channels 881,882 WOW

bob118, can you list all the HD channels you currently receive through Comast with their actual numbers? That would help those of us who do not have the HD tier make our decisions. thanks

The current channels that Comcast in Western Mass offer are the following:

849- ESPND ESPN Sports in HD
857- DWGBY (PBS) Springfield, MA
870-HBOHD HomeBox Office
877-SHOHD Showtime
881-INHD In Demand HD (Not PPV just like the HDNET channel)
882-INHD2 Second channel for more programming

*808 & 822 are showing black screens. Looks like ABC from Ct. and NBC from Springfield.

Just watching the INHD channels today are showing some unbelievable shows, their web site said that they are going to show HD in 1080i format.

Comcast also stated that the Bruins and Red Sox will be showing some home games in HD this yr.INHD (http://www.INHD.com)

WOW this is fast, Comcast has the RED SOX in HD and the commentators Jerry and crew are bragging how nice the HD is, and I'll tell you I can't wait for the Bruins this year!!!!

Originally posted by bob118
WOW this is fast, Comcast has the RED SOX in HD and the commentators Jerry and crew are bragging how nice the HD is, and I'll tell you I can't wait for the Bruins this year!!!!


jealous

I find it amusing that NESN was able to make the transition to HDTV in 45 days, and yet WGGB can't seem to get their act together after several years! I also wish that Comcast in Western MA would duplicate the alacrity with which they added the NESN HD broadcasts when it comes to adding WWLP-DT to their cable HD lineup. They've been broadcasting in HD for some time now, and Comcast is still dragging their feet.

But enough of my derisive talk-- the Sox look AWESOME tonight! Kudos to everyone at Comcast and NESN who decided that this was a worthwhile investment. It most certainly was.

Omega you meanthe game is in HD right now. I'm a Yankee fan ( dont hate) but watching baseball in HD even if it's the sox would be great. I'm calling comcast right now and getting things done this week. They could at anytime start adding channels, and I dont want to miss out. WGGB has me to the point of going insane, no MNF in HD is a joke. We should go there and speak to someone in person.

Ralfy-- Yes, I'm watching the Sox pummel the Devil Rays in HD glory as I type this. Interestingly enough, the game being advertised on InHD's website was the Yanks/O's game. It is being preempted on Comcast systems where NESN is available.

I agree that the lack of ABC, NBC, or CBS in HD on cable is infuriating. It is even moreso for myself, because I live in Sunderland. This means to have even a snowflakes chance in hell of pulling in an OTA signal, I'd need a mammoth antenna, which I cannot mount because I live in an apartment. So without HD Cable, I'm totally in the dark!

Just got off the phone with Comcast. Things will be here on wednesday, but only getting the basic basic package. So only locals for 6 bucks a month, plus 2 HD boxes so the total per month will be 21.95. The CSR I spoke with seemed to know what he was talking about. Said more locals will be added shortly, and also made mention of NESN showing games in HD. I have Direct TV for most of my HD right now and an over the air setup for locals. I do get NBC, CBS and PBS in HD. We no about WGGB 40 so we will stop there

Well Boston has the Locals so I think it's just a matter of Time. Did'nt the Sox look Great tonight... Hopefully Discovery HD Will be soon. BTW I Caught a few bits of Full Metal Jacket and it looked Pretty Decent.

Ok heres what I need to know. I just signed up for locals package, does that mean I also receive the INHD channels or is that an extra charge? Until Comcast has a Tivo like DVR I will not completly change over from sat.

As far as my understanding goes, the InHD channels are not premium/subscription channels, so they should appear with your package. If you'll be getting ESPN-HD, then I'm pretty sure you'll also have InHD.

822 WWLP is on the air on Comcast HD Check it out!!!!

Originally posted by bob118
822 WWLP is on the air on Comcast HD Check it out!!!!



The hits just keep on coming!

It sure is. Thanks! Now if we can just get ABC. CBS may take a while

Originally posted by bob118
822 WWLP is on the air on Comcast HD Check it out!!!!

WOW!:D

Yep Unbelievable Kudos to Comcast they are really Ramping up the HD Content. I'm waiting to see how Leno Looks so Far the NBC Lineup.. Fraser, Whoopie et all look pretty awful.

Thought Whoopie looked pretty good. Great picture but Frasier has always looked bad. Looks likes its being zoomed in. Have had WWLP OTA for awhile now. Whoopie looked good but not a show I would watch regularly.

The Tonight show looked awesome...

I spoke to someone at the Comcast booth at the Big E on Sunday. He stated that channel 22 and channel 8 should be in hd this week on Comcast. He was obviously right about channel 22. He did not seem very confident about an agreement with channel 3 anytime soon though.

I wonder what the hold up is on Ch3? I am surprised they would being in an out of town HD Channel when Ch 40 WGGB is the local affiliate

Originally posted by ghytty
I spoke to someone at the Comcast booth at the Big E on Sunday. He stated that channel 22 and channel 8 should be in hd this week on Comcast. He was obviously right about channel 22. He did not seem very confident about an agreement with channel 3 anytime soon though.


Just got back from the Big E... and when I asked about the current channels for this area the Comcast rep pulled out a handwritten card with channels on it and on the very top of the list was CH 8. The booth had a sign stating that INHD was to launch on September 15th.


I don't think Comcast has any CBS affiliates on their HD tiers anywhere in the country.

Originally posted by ralfy1
Just got off the phone with Comcast. Things will be here on wednesday, but only getting the basic basic package. So only locals for 6 bucks a month, plus 2 HD boxes so the total per month will be 21.95. The CSR I spoke with seemed to know what he was talking about. Said more locals will be added shortly, and also made mention of NESN showing games in HD. I have Direct TV for most of my HD right now and an over the air setup for locals. I do get NBC, CBS and PBS in HD. We no about WGGB 40 so we will stop there


ralfy1,

what happened with your install?

Originally posted by -KEK-
I just got off the phone with Comcast (I live in Westfield). Right now because I have Directv I only subscribe to minimum basic cable, which gives me only the local stations. I thought the comcast high def package would require digital cable subscription (approx $40) but it doesn't. All I have to pay is the $7 HD box rental fee. They are coming Friday to hook it up. I'll post after that with any comments.


KEK,

Ditto how did your install go?

The install went fine. I'm new to digital cable so they gave me a month of digital plus gold which includes HBO and Showtime for $1. The installer told me that I had to have at least a minimum digital plus package ($9.99 a month) to recieve HD. After the first month is up I will downgrade my package to the minimum.

My install never took place. The Tech came in looked around and said " Uh I don't see any wires coming into your rooms, I cant fish them through the walls so nothing I can do here." I said how about running it on the outside of the house and coming in through the windows like the Sat wires. He said " Not without your landlords permission." So I said he's my best friend I'll get him over here right now to give the OK. He says " Gonna have to ask the home office about this." So he left I called Comcast and asked what I need to get this done, she said written permission was all I needed. I said I have it please reschedule for later in the week she said ok. No one ever showed so I called and they said no appointment was scheduled. Rescheduled again for Tuesday of this week hope they show this time. I think the tech just didn't want to do the install that day.

I was hoping that Comcast was going to add Channel 8 in time for Monday Night Football, but it didn't happen yet. I got a feeling that channel 40 is fighting them over this, but it's channel 40's fault. If they are going to be behind the times then they deserve to lose customers. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I was hoping that Comcast was going to add Channel 8 in time for Monday Night Football, but it didn't happen yet. I got a feeling that channel 40 is fighting them over this, but it's channel 40's fault. If they are going to be behind the times then they deserve to lose customers. Just my opinion.

I refuse to watch 40.

WGGB is terrible.

Even with my $3.86 month basic cable service in Agawam... I refuse to watch TV40 in 480i even....

I won't watch them untill they are full 720p HDTV.

I just watch TV22 instead... it better anyways....

Someone (everyone) should continue to Email TV40 and tell them how much they suck...

I would love for COMCAST to pick up CHANNEL 8 in HDTV....

Who in the right mind would watch TV40?

Hey guys, damn DSL line has been down for over a week. Getting cable modem in soon I hope. Cable install happened, it went pretty well this time. Had 2 guys that didnt mind doing some work. The HD cannels look great and I cant see a difference from OTA. I did talk to a supervisor from Comcast when he showed up at my house to see how things were going. I asked about getting WTNH cahnnel 8 in HD. His answer gave us our problem, he said even if we put channel 8 on WGGB has the right to black out anything they want on it. He said this is they're market and they can do that. He also said he wasnt happy about WGGB not showing HD as it would be another reason for people to get HD cable. One last thing he said was that they are putting alot of HD boxes out and it's sad that some people think thats all you need to get HD. But they dont even have an HD set.

Originally posted by ralfy1
One last thing he said was that they are putting alot of HD boxes out and it's sad that some people think thats all you need to get HD. But they dont even have an HD set.
Comcast out this way (Boston area) Won't install a High Def box unless a High Def TV is on site. Even if you have one on order they sometimes will tell you that you have to wait until your set arrives.

even if we put channel 8 on WGGB has the right to black out anything they want on it

I would understand this if WGGB was also putting out an HD signal, however this is obviously not the case. WTNH is offering an entirely different service than WGGB is--HDTV versus NTSC. I simply don't understand how WGGB has the power to blackout service when the aren't even offering a comparable product. I'm starting to get VERY upset with TV40.

Yeah they are not on my christmas card list this year. They are really holding us up. The thing is they wont do HD, but at the same time can anyone even get a strong signal from the digital 40-1. I cant even get the station in at all. They suck and I dont think they care. Kepp the e-mails going, although I'm sure someone is there with the delete button. MNF will pass us by this year, and so will many other shows in HD by ABC.

Originally posted by ralfy1
Yeah they are not on my christmas card list this year. They are really holding us up. The thing is they wont do HD, but at the same time can anyone even get a strong signal from the digital 40-1. I cant even get the station in at all. They suck and I dont think they care. Kepp the e-mails going, although I'm sure someone is there with the delete button. MNF will pass us by this year, and so will many other shows in HD by ABC.

I HATE TV40!!!

Someone post the email adress and a good nasty letter here....

Then everyone can copy and paste it and send it repeatedly over and over again.....

Anyone care to write a good nasty email about why we won't watch TV40 ....????

If they get 25 emails a day- day after day after day after day..... They might understand and change

So we all have to suffer because TV40 is too cheap to upgrade to high def. TV8 is still considered local isn't it? If it is not, then why do we have TV8 in the first 13 channels on cable? Maybe we should consider mailing the FCC and let them know what is going on. Maybe we could get a waiver from TV40 that would allow us to recieve TV8 (not likely) in high def. If all else fails we should probably contact our local politicians and let them know what is going on.

It is no surprise that TV40 is not HD since they are owned by Sinclair.

IMPORTANT NOTICE :

Did anyone notice today that channel 808 came off the guide on Comcast and was replaced by 803. Can we only be getting closer to Channel 3 WFSB sooner, or are they laughing their balls off jerking us around, anybody hear anything lately? I did see in the paper today that WFSB is going to put a station feed in the Springfield Market next Jan. Low Powered of course. Here is the local write up in todays paper from the Springfield Republican:


Iowa television group buys WMass channel



10/10/2003


By WILLIAM FREEBAIRN Staff writer
wfreebairn@repub.com



The company that owns Hartford's WFSB-TV, channel 3, is buying a low-power religious broadcaster in Springfield and will operate it as a new CBS affiliate.

Meredith Corp., which owns 12 television stations nationwide, has an agreement to buy the station serving Springfield and Holyoke from Trinity Broadcasting Network in California. Purchase price was not diclosed.


Meredith received Federal Communications Commission approval for the transfer recently. The new station will begin re-broadcasting the signal of Hartford-based WFSB, also a CBS affiliate, shortly after the deal is complete, a spokesman said.


By January, the Springfield station will begin broadcasting its own signal and eventually its own local programing, according to Meredith spokesman Jody Judge.


"Our plans are to operate them as separate stations. That will give us the opportunity to give news and local programming for Springfield," he said.


The station will also sell local advertising, he said. Cable operator Comcast has agreed to put the new station's programming on cable channel 3, replacing WFSB there starting next year, Judge said.


Although it is going by the name CBS 3 now, the new station has applied to use the call letters WSHM, Judge said. The station has a long-term affiliation agreement with the CBS Television network.


There is no timetable for the company's local programs, which will initially be produced in Hartford, he said. He said the company has not decided whether it will build studio facilities in Western Massachusetts, but it would like to have an area presence.


Meredith, based in Iowa, acquired WFSB in 1997.


Trinity officials could not be reached for comment yesterday.

So springfield will have a CBS channel now?

WFSB channel 3 in Hartford's parent company is buying the Trinity Broadcasting low power UHF translator on Mt. Tom. It operates on channel 67 with the callsign W67DF.

FCC W67DF station details (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_det.pl?Facility_id=67980)

The station has been on channel 67 for almost 10 years that I'm aware of - but I don't believe it has ever been picked up or carried on any cable system. The actual grant dates back into the late 1980's and application from over 20 years ago.

From the posted Springfield newspaper story above ... it would appear that WFSB has reached agreement with at least one local cable operator to carry the station (but in place of WFSB).

If you dig around the FCC's web site you can also find a very recent application to move channel 67 to channel 45 and increase the power from 1.6 kw ERP to 20 kw ERP. The reason for the channel move is that the FCC will eventually claim all the higher channel numbers for other services.

Related to this forum: this is an analogue channel assignment - and a translator at that (which means it just rebroadcasts the signals of the parent station, which currently is KTBN-TV channel 40 from Santa Ana, CA.

Too bad that William Freebairn didn't ask a question or two about digital service and when that would be coming into the market!

What's up guys? Long time no hear. I just got an e-mail back from WTIC Fox 61 out of CT. Titan TV pulled them from the stations coming soon list so I sent an e-mail wondering why. He answered very quick, in like half an hour. He said that the equipment has arrived and they will get tings going as soon as possible. They want to be on air before the end of the year.
Mason, John [jmason@fox61.com] If you guys get him a chance just shoot off an e-mail just to let him know we are here. As for WFSB I get that station strong all day, and I live in downtown Springfield.

ralfy1,

I sent fox61 an email and received this reply:

We just got our construction permit from the FCC, we hope to have a digital signal by the end of this year.


Notice Mr. Mason says that they hope to have a
"Digital" signal. I'm not so sure that means their 480p widescreen version of HDTV.

At least he has heard from another person interested in their rolling it out.

The fact that Comcast has removed 808 from the channel list must mean that we will never get 8 as a high def channel. I don't intend to keep hammering on 40 but this really makes me angry. If 40 didn't exist then we would already be getting 8, because it would be the only ABC in the area. How many more Monday Night Football games am I going to have to watch on analog?

By the way Ralfy1, I noticed that Titan TV has FOX-61 as coming on November 1st again.

Yeah I just saw that at Titan, I think they wanted us to get excited then pull the rug out. Sorry to say this again but channel 40 SUCKS. I really is starting to get on my nerves big time. I never get a response from anyone there. I e-mail all the time and nothing. I know I asked before but has anyone gooten a response from 40.

No responses here, either. I'm wondering if the station would pay more attention if some sort of physical letter or petition was generated and mailed to them. Or something could be sent to Comcast expressing our desire to receive WTNH-DT. It's all too easy to click the delete button on an email that you don't want to read. It's much more difficult to ignore a series of letters,petitions, etc. It would be nice if we could get a groundswell of support from people; possibly individuals who pay for advertising on the station! Just a thought. I'm getting really sick of the lack of progress on WGGBs part. I'm sorry, but the future is here--either embrace it or get out of the game. They're going to HAVE to adopt this technology anyways, and funding isn't going to be any more readily available later on than it is now. Just my $.02--AGAIN.

Is case you guys miss Omegareds post on WFSB, it is listed on comcast channel 803. This will almost bring us all we need HD wise for network tv. Of corse channel 40 is screwing us big time. I really wish WTNH would be brought on. Channel 40 should only have rights to local in analog not digital since they wont do HD.

Channel 40 should only have rights to local in analog not digital since they wont do HD

My sentiments exactly. WGGB shouldn't be able to call dibs on a medium they don't even plan on utilizting any time in the forseeable future.

Kinda off topic but is there a way to delete channels? I hate channel surfing only to have to go by 20 channels I dont get. If there is a way to get them off please let me know. Comcast is really starting to make moves and soon my sat dish will come down if they keep adding channels like this. Well I will have to by a new DVR, unles I wait for them to come out with one. The way they are going they should have one in this area by sometime early next year. I switched from VerizonDSL to Comcast a few weeks ago. I didnt want anything to do with Cable for like 5 years when we had MediaOne and then ATT, but Comcast really knows how to do things. Oh one last thing WGGB channel 40 SUCKS. Late

Directv has the 40 Hour TIVO out for only $99..... It has dual DirecTV digital DSS tuners in it....... and TIVO service is only $4.99 a month....

That's the way to do PVR cheap......and get the most out of the money you are spending on DSS or cable.... in terms of actually watching stuff your interested in watching.....

ralfy are you asking about Directv or Comcast? The easiest way is to go into the menu and set your favorites.

Opps sorry was talking about cable, I tried setting up favorites but then you just hit the fav button. You can just scan up and down. I have a directv Tivo, had it for awhile but paid alot more then $99. It has dual tuner and I love it one of the best things I ever bought. But what I need one for is cable now, so I can drop Sat. for good. I dont want to get one now cause I know they will have HD ones soon.

Hey check this out guys. I went to comcast site and put my area in to see what they offer. This came up in the HD area.

Comcast currently offers eight channels in Western Massachusetts -
WGBY(PBS), WWLP(ABC), WFSB(CBS), ESPN, INHD, INHD2, HBO, Showtime, plus select Red Sox and Bruins home games from NESN.

So it looks like WFSB will be there sooner or later in HD. They also seem to think WWLP is an ABC station.

Well Ch 3 was on but they've reoved it for now. I'm hoping ABC turs up sonnor or later too

I sent Comcast an email telling them that WWLP is an NBC station. If they think we are getting an ABC station then they might stop negotiating with 8 and 40.

I wish TV40 WOULD go away....

Go broadcast analog to a bunch of grandmothers with 19" tv's...

WGGB TV40 = LAME. I tell everyone not to watch it.

Hey Mfusick, do you work at an electronics store in the area? Just wondering, I was looking at your review on the sony RP LCD set.

I for one have already given up on WGGB and Sinclair Broadcasting. What I'm more concerned (read: angy) about is the WFSB-DT teaser we got about a week ago. They tell us CBS will be up and running; it does go up, but not in 1080i; and then it vanishes just as quickly and mysteriously as it arrived! What's the deal?!?

Originally posted by ralfy1
Hey Mfusick, do you work at an electronics store in the area? Just wondering, I was looking at your review on the sony RP LCD set.

Yes I do.

Originally posted by Mfusick
Yes I do.

Well don't leave us hanging. Which one do you work at?

Yeah come on Mfusick, which one do you work at.
OmegaRed I think it was just a problem they encontered. It is still listed on there site as a station, so I think it will be back. Yeah time to by an big antenna and try to pick up WTNH, cause WGGB is not gonna do anything anytime soon. One wierd thing I did notice is that on my guide, if a show is in HD WGGB's listing says HD. Thought that was odd.

Ralfy that could be an indication that they may be ready to start trying HD, although I wouldn't count on it. The fact that they never respond to anybody doesn't mean that they are not moving forward with HD. I can hope can't I?

Does anybody have any interest in forming a Western MA HDTV interest group? We could meet once a month or so. Just a suggestion.

I don't know if this is new or not but WGBY was broadcasting 5.1 audio on the nature show that was on last night. I never noticed 5.1 from them before.

Look at his sig!

Don't listen to Mfusick... He's lying!

You can't trust him! :D

Well Well Well I see that WFSBD is back on Comcast, I had a hunch that something would be going on around the first of the month. Maybe they got all the bugs out and are ready to roll out with the HD, Hey we can only hope!!!

They put WFSBD back on but is says unauthorized local for me.

Hey -KEK- what would this group do? Would we pressure local station to pass more HD by strong arming them. I would be up for that, they need alittle fire under there butts. How many of you can get CBS OTA, I have for awhile and must say I watch more shows on CBS then any other network.

If we got enough people to join our cause we could try pressuring the local stations with mass mailings (snail mail and email). Maybe try to lobby some politicians, anything we can to further the fight. The more general purpose of the group would be to bring awareness of HDTV to people in western MA.

Answer to your question: I don't get CBS OTA, I have a big hill behind my house that blocks everything from the south.


Anybody have any news on FOX61. The last I heard they were not going to make the Nov. 1st launch, but I have not heard how far behind they are. Are they trying to make Dec. 1st, Jan. 1st? Once 61 comes on line I'm sure Comcast will carry them, they carry FOX in most markets already.

We should just keep bashing TV40.... over and over again....

Untill they learn or go out of business because no one watches that crappy station anyways....

Analog = Losers

Anybody have any news on FOX61. The last I heard they were not going to make the Nov. 1st launch, but I have not heard how far behind they are.

Check out the "Unofficial Connecticut Thread".

We have heard pretty firm information that they will be up sometime in December.

Originally posted by AreBee
Check out the "Unofficial Connecticut Thread".

We have heard pretty firm information that they will be up sometime in December.

Here's the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=315169&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

I think you guys have more talk about Connecticut stations than the "Somewhat Official CT" thread!

I can't get WFSB OTA, but I noticed on the Connecticut thread that they are broadcasting the non HD stuff with black bars on the sides. I remember WWLP started doing that right before they were picked up by Comcast. It sounds like they are real close to adding WFSB on Comcast.

Originally posted by Mfusick
We should just keep bashing TV40.... over and over again....

Untill they learn or go out of business because no one watches that crappy station anyways....

Analog = Losers

OK..here you go. Let's see how many different folks are 'actually' interested in saying something to WGGB Management. I will make sure every e-mailer gets his/her say. Also, thought that it would be useful to see how many "HDTV'ers" are in the WGGB market.

You will find an e-mail link on this page...

SBG DTV (http://www.sbgi.net/business/dtv/) (please specify WGGB in the subject)

Ciao!

Mister DTV thank you for being willing to help us. I know you get beat up pretty good in other threads, so thanks for trying to help us be heard. I guess we just expect things to just happen, and we dont understand everything that goes on to make those things happen. We do think that WGGB is not being fair, they havent responded to 1 e-mail even to let us no if any progress is being made. I have stopped watching WGGB, and dont have plans to anytime soon. I have switched to WTNH for any ABC programing that I want to watch. If they at least explained why, then maybe I would give them break. We miss alot of programming, not to mention MNF.

Hey guys lets make sure we all send Mr. DTV an e-mail. We have to have a good showing. Tell your friends with HD sets to send one also.

Well, I just did my part. Boy, that was quite the rant I just emailed them. Maybe, just maybe, our voice will be heard this time around!

Anyone in WMass recieve WTNH OTA ? I only get about a 10 on my Hughes E86 which is not enough. Also how can we expect Ch 40 to transmit HD when they have not even had a real stereo audio signal for the last 3 years.

Originally posted by MisterDTV
OK..here you go. Let's see how many different folks are 'actually' interested in saying something to WGGB Management. I will make sure every e-mailer gets his/her say. Also, thought that it would be useful to see how many "HDTV'ers" are in the WGGB market.

You will find an e-mail link on this page...

SBG DTV (http://www.sbgi.net/business/dtv/) (please specify WGGB in the subject)

Ciao!

I am told that at EOB today, there were a total of three (3) e-mails written WRT WGGB. Is that it in the Springfield market?!?!

Now's your chance to be heard. The ears are open, is there more to be heard?

Mark

You guys must be kidding me only 3 e-mails, come on get those e-mails out. If we have a poor showing then you can forget it. I cant belive all the talk we do and they only receive 3 e-mails out of all the people that post on this thread. That is really sad, do we want this or not? He is giving us a chance to show them that there is a market out here, so please take a few minutes and do a quick e-mail. I thank you all in advance, and sorry if I seem P$#@d off. Even you CT. guys should send one out, some of you fall in range. Remember WGGB has local rights, so Comcast is not going to bring in WTNH just for us. REPLY PLEASE

Originally posted by MisterDTV
OK..here you go. Let's see how many different folks are 'actually' interested in saying something to WGGB Management. I will make sure every e-mailer gets his/her say. Also, thought that it would be useful to see how many "HDTV'ers" are in the WGGB market.

You will find an e-mail link on this page...

SBG DTV (http://www.sbgi.net/business/dtv/) (please specify WGGB in the subject)

Ciao!

Mr. DTV:

I hate to make my introduction like this, but I must side with these people. I am very lucky. In my area, our CBS and NBC have had HD for over a year, ABC for over 2 months (before then they weren't on the air) and PBS for over a week (but it's not regular yet, just testing, they've been seeking HD since May, just waiting for enough money). Our FOX is not owned by you, but has sold you I believe it's WNYO-49 Buffalo (Grant Media), and they do not do HD. Fortunately, FOX only does 480p so I'm not missing much, plus our station manages to screw up ANYTHING it does. They carry WB also, but I haven't found anybody who watches it yet. The only network I really want is the one I won't get, and that's UPN in HD. I might get a clear SD digital in 3 years. It's funny actually, our UPN calls themselves "WDRL-DTV" on the air, but nobody can receive their digital signal--or even their primary analog.

But I'm not here to talk about that, I'm here to talk about WGGB. I personally find it sad that WGGB cannot do HD, even though Greenville, NC (which is only a few markets larger) has HD CBS, ABC, and NBC, plus PBS. Why is it that stations like WVIR-DT and WHSV-DT in the mountains of VA, while operating an STA, both have HD, even though neither of them are in markets under 170? 1 of the 2 PBS stations also has HD, the other is not yet on the air. In Greensboro, NC, a top 50 market, your ABC station does, indeed, have HD capabilities--if you call a test pattern 24/7 capability. All the programming is on the subchannel in 480i. Plus, the UPN (which is ironically WUPN) is only receivable to people with Samsung tuners or tuners that will work with PSIP so messed up... another engineer in the market got the Hauppauge WinTV-D I have, and he found that your UPN station had the PID set to 000, which would cause MOST tuners to ignore it. Now what's the point in operating a full-powered transmitter if nobody can receive it? I am told ABC45 had the same problem until Comast FORCED them to do it. I have made polite requests several times with no response.

But at least in Greensboro, many people can pull in WTVD-52 and WSOC-34 and some are trying desperately to get WSET-34.

Here in Springfield/Holyoke, some in the west can get WCDC-36, some in the far east can get WCVB-20(?) or WMUR-59, and a few can get WTNH-10. Many right in the heart of the market are really screwed, especially the ones trying to get it on cable. The least you could do is allow the carriage of ABC-HD on cable for these folks if you cannot presently afford it. Then when you get around to doing HD, have their signal dropped in favor of your own. I'm sure WCDC or WTNH would have no quarrel with that plan.

Here's another instance. Richmond, VA--you own the FOX there--there are three RECEIVABLE DT stations there, WTVR, WRIC, and WWBT (the Fox is WRLH and at a whopping 12.1 kW for anyone not familiar). Now, WTVR has been having problems for a very long time. When people would write polite e-mails requesting info, they weren't ignored, they were given updates. Eventually, their engineer began visiting AVS and giving updates on the problem (which led to the replacement of their transmitter). Rather than telling the people essentially that they weren't important, even if they weren't, and making people boycott the station, they were quick and responsive, even if the answer they were going to give was negative. It's much better to receive a negative response than no response at all. Actually, I even got to talk to Romeo at WLFL/WRDC. I asked him if he could visit AVS and he told me something about corporate not allowing it! Explain that one please.

Note that I have tried to make my message as polite as possible.

- Trip

I just got hooked up with Comcast digital cable with the Motorola 5100 Hi-def box last night and I wanted to thank you all for this thread. It was very nice to see others in my general area (I live in Turners Falls) with HDTV info since it was very hard to find elsewhere!

I just did my part with an email to WGGB because I'd love to see MNF in high-definition! Plus it's crazy to think that we could possibly get another ABC in hi-def but are restricted because of a station that doesn't want to commit to it.

The interesting thing is that my installer said that WGGB was working on getting their high-definition equipment up and running "soon" but I definitely would take that with a grain of salt because he did a pretty poor job with my installation and said "it's really a brand new thing for all of us installers too, so if you want you can read your Motorola users manual and change any hookups you want to".

Of course Comcast's web site already claims to have an ABC but it's WWLP which of course is NBC.

They also claim to have WSFB in high definition but I get a message about it being an unauthorized station. The installer said that it should be up "any day now". Umm yeah...

Does anyone have any updates on WSFB?

How about any other HD stations?

I heard that Fox is supposed to be up relatively soon also...

Well WFSB was on Comcast for like a week, but it was only the digital station not the HD one. This happened last time and I'm sure it will be back and right this time. WTIC Fox 61 on Titan TV says under review but I have no idea what that means, if any of you do, please share. Also please e-mail Mr. DTV, remember he came to us, and basically called us out to see how many "real" HD customers this market has.

Fox61 will have its digital OTA tower up in December. Don't know the timing on their HD link to Comcast however.

Originally posted by ralfy1
I have stopped watching WGGB, and dont have plans to anytime soon. I have switched to WTNH for any ABC programing that I want to watch. If they at least explained why, then maybe I would give them break. We miss alot of programming, not to mention MNF.

Yes.

I have also stopped watching WGGB TV40- And I advise everyone who asks me to do the same. I am not the only one. I work in Retail and sell HDTV equiptment and TV's. Customers are constantly comming in and talking about HDTV and negative about TV40. Many, Many local people here understand that the reason they can't get HDTV MNF from channel 8 in CT is because TV40 threw a fit about it when comcast tried to pick up Channel 8 for HDTV ABC station. And because TV40 it neer happened.

I guess 40 felt that if channel 8 was HDTV and WGGB tv40 was not HDTV then all the people with HDTV or comcast HDTV cable would watch the HDTV channel 8 instead of the ANALOG LOW PICTURE QUALITY WGGB TV40. I think they are right.

Personally I never watch TV40- I refuse to do it. Many people with good OTA try to get other stations that actually broadcast MNF in HDTV.

WGGB is only hurting themselves by being too cheap and slow to adopt HDTV in this area.

I am told that a "whopping" 4 e-mails have arrived. We were getting ready for the deluge, but were saddened by so few who took the time to answer the invite for "feedback". (we are hoping that there are more than 4 viewers willing to share their thoughts...)

All e-mails will be answered, and I will share with the "Springfield" viewers (and non-viewers like that self-avowed lying Mfusick!) future plans for HD.

:)

PS

I am very familiar with the market, having worked in the broadcast manufacturing side of the industry for 23 years (in Westfield and Southwick) prior to moving to "Merryland" to become a "Broadcaster". ;)

I, too, am dismayed by our poor showing of emails regarding WGGB-DT. I would have thought that, at the very least, everyone who's made a post on this thread could have taken 5 minutes to compose a message to the folks at Sinclair. This may have been our golden opportunity to have our opinions heard in a larger forum; hopefully it's not too late, and others will still drop a note soon!

On the other hand, even if MisterDTV did receive the "deluge" of mail that he was hoping for, it probably would be no more than 50 or so emails. Would that sample size even be large enough to sway the folks at Sinclair/WGGB? My guess is probably not. Although we are trying to speak for the masses, I'm afraid the masses will have to speak for themselves in order to effect a change at a company as large as Sinclair Broadcast Corp. I'm sure that Sinclair simply sees folks like us as "early adopters" (even though after 4 years of HDTV ownership I'd hardly consider myself an early adopter anymore). The reality is that WGGB has no need to upgrade. They don't need to have a competitive advantage because for most people, they are the only game in town. I can't get WTNH OTA, and WGGB knows that this is the case for most folks. Also, they aren't going to lose viewership because most viewers don't know/don't care about HDTV, and those of us that do are simply not in the position to do anything. So unless Bernies and Tweeter starts handing out AVSForum user names with every HDTV purchase, I don't think we're going to get the word out to enough people to make a difference.

Wow--now I'm really depressed. Maybe I should move to Boston after I graduate...

Well your right Omega, but it would have been nice to have them receive 50 e-mails instead of our "whopping" 4. Anyone that didn't send in a letter has no right to complain. As a matter a fact beating up on WGGB should be over, they called us out and we failed each other. I thought we were all in this as a team, hoping to get some things done in the area. Oh and -KEK- this is why an HD group in the area will never work, no one would show up. Thanks to the other 3 guys that mailed Mr. DTV and thanks to him for at least looking into this thread and trying to let us be heard. My ban on WGGB TV40 ends now.

Just to let you all know, WFSB 3 is back on comcast channel 803.

Let's hope it's in HD this time around!:rolleyes:

Looks pretty much like HD to me, although I think they are having some audio problems as the volume on my set is real low compared to the other stations that I change too. Also I have bars on the sides now so they must be broadcasting 4:3 although I did notice most shows last night were all in widescreen.

Let's get 40 off there ass's and we'll be pretty much content here in Western Mass.

Get used to the volume issues with WFSB. It's been a problem since day 1 that they either can't or won't correct. Hopefully when they get their new full power transmitter up, the issue will go away.

Glad you Mass. people are enjoying our CT station that I can't get on Comcast here in the heart of CT!

Originally posted by Such
Get used to the volume issues with WFSB. It's been a problem since day 1 that they either can't or won't correct. Hopefully when they get their new full power transmitter up, the issue will go away.


I doubt that full power will fix this problem. Not many stations are broadcasting at full power, but nobody else seems to have this problem. I did notice Saturday during the college football game that is was only DD 2.0 even though CBS is feeding them with 5.1 audio. If and when they are capable of 5.1 then that switch might fix the problem.

That's what I was referring to, their existing transmission equipment can't push DD5.1, I'm assuming they are replacing it when they put their new transmitter up because they have said they will pass DD5.1 at that time also.

That is good news, I didn't know they were planning on doing that. Do you have any idea when they are going to full power?

No one has heard anything recently, all previous deliverable dates have passed, so one would hope they are close.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I doubt that full power will fix this problem. Not many stations are broadcasting at full power, but nobody else seems to have this problem. I did notice Saturday during the college football game that is was only DD 2.0 even though CBS is feeding them with 5.1 audio. If and when they are capable of 5.1 then that switch might fix the problem.

This is correct. The amount of power has nothing to do with what's in the transmission.

Digital television signals are just a data stream of upwards of 19 mbps. Within that stream there can be all kinds of information: multiple video streams, multiple audio streams, data streams, etc.

Its pretty hard to describe in a text based format (like in this posting) ... but you can maybe imagine the following for a network television station to provide you a signal:

Network feed:
The station has to receive the network feed, most often via satellite, but now also being done via fibre (telco) links. Most networks have been feeding some kind of digital signal for some time. The station has to receive the signal, which may be comprised of many different things, including: a standard 4:3 format, a 16:9 format, standard stereo feed, an AC3 audio stream and various other information.

Switching / routing:
The network feed has to be fed into a variety of systems that allow the station to: playback advertising, overlay bugs, etc. In some cases - here is where limitations come in - some equipment may not handle a dolby digital 5.1 stream, etc.

ATV transport streams:
The digital off-air signals you receive have to be put together from a variety of sources, i.e., most stations transmit minimally a 4:3 standard format NTSC like broadcast (channel XX.1) and a separate 16:9 format enhanced feed (channel XX.3 or whatever). Some PBS stations run as many as four or five NTSC signals combined up into one ATV transmission. Typically there's one box that takes as input all the signals and puts them together for the ATV transmitter.

STL:
Most stations do not reside at their transmitter site, so a Studio Transmitter Link is involved. Again, each stations infrastructure may be a bit different - some may even build the ATV transport streams at the transmitter site whilst others would build it at the studio and feed that to the transmitter site.

Transmitter:
Encoding the ATV data stream onto whatever frequency the station is allocated is pretty simple - and its always done at a low power level. (Often called the exciter.) Then, depending on the frequency and what the license calls for ... there would be multiple stages of power amplification to reach the desired power level. Since the power amp stage is working with RF (radio frequencies) it has nothing to do with the content of the signal.

Antenna:
Well, since we've gone this far - might as well include this, too. Usually there's a BIG piece of coax or wave guide involved ... which takes the output of the transmitter (or multiple transmitters in some cases, which are combined together) and brings it up a tower to an antenna. Stations are licensed using ERP = Effective Radiated Power. In simple terms, you take the power output of the transmitter, subtract the amount of loss incurred by sending it up the coax/wave guide, and add the gain from the antenna ... and voila: ERP. You'll notice some UHF stations run as much as 5 megawatts ERP - well, they're not really generating 5 megawatts of RF power - that's the effective power that the whole system represents.

So ... the moral here is that there's a lot more involved in getting a signal to a viewer than just plugging the link from the network into the stations transmitter. All the components that are in-between the network feed and the stations transmitter can have an effect on what you end up receiving.

And while I'm at it ... a few more thoughts on all this:

The encoding of these ATV transport streams ... can be set at various quality levels, too. For example, if a station were to provide two full quality NTSC channels whatever is left over is available for an additional channel - which may include a 16:9 format (aka HD) offering. So in addition to looking at whether a station is providing a stereo versus AC3 DD 5.1 audio feed - you may want to look <sic> at what the encoding rate is!

A good comparison:
If you had digital cable, digital satellite and digital (ATV) off-air on the same set ... you could compare the audio AND pictures. You may be surprised at what you see! In many cases - cable and satellite providers further compress streams to make better use of their bandwidth - which means the off-air signal may look better. Some tuner cards can actually tell you the bit rate that something is encoded at. Assuming no place along the feed is encoded at a LOWER rate ... the higher the bit rate the better the picture.

Bit wordy - hope this helps. There's plenty of better resources on the net ... FCC site, NAB, various ATV industry sites, etc.

Bob McCormick

WOW! now thats what I call a lesson in TV Broadcasting, thanks Bob for your breakdown, as I would think that most of us would now appreciate what we are receiving. And to think of how much more goes on, just to get the Cable Transmission in HD. Thanks once again Bob, and one more quick question, Why doesn't WFSB and WWLP ever stretch the digital picture to fill in our 16x9 widescreens when shows are not in true HD?

Bob,

I don't know the answer to your question, and I am just getting into HD, but I would prefer that they NOT stretch the picture. I have a projector, so I would prefer they leave in it's native format and not stretch it.

Don't most TVs allow the user to decide how to stretch it themselves? I think most widescreens allow the user multiple modes to choose from. As a user, I would want control over how I stretch it (or in my case not stretch it) rather than them choosing.

Bob118 / Jake14mw:

At one point WWLP-DT was stretching the NTSC signal to fill the 16:9 format when there was no native 16:9 format being supplied. But this tends to make things look a bit unnatural; especially noticable during newscasts and other shots when you see people up close - they look a lot wider than normal!

My personal preference would be to leave it alone, i.e., on the HD channel when there's no HD format just supply the NTSC 4:3 version as-is. Let each user on their set decide how they would like to view the picture.

In fact, most mid-range to high-end sets have a variety of settings to fill the screen ... some doing elaborate schemes including leaving the centre not very stretched by pulling out the edges, etc.

Again - all this would depend on the source at the TV station in question and what equipment goes through as I mentioned above.

Well there is stretching, and then there is upconverting. I wish those stations would do what ESPN-HD does and simply upconvert all the signals to 1080i. That way the picture would fill up the entire screen, but wouldn't be stretched. Not to mention that even an upconvert looks a millions times better on my tv than regular cable!

I lost INHD2 on Comcast here in Westfield. I hope it is just a screw up.

Yeah I just lost it also. Probly just some testing going on. They have the IN Demand thing kinda going. It has all the shows listed but the shows wont play yet. Looks kinda cool, hope it gets going soon. They did give me the new remote controls, when they brought over my HD boxes. He said this was the newest control (silver) for IN Demand. If you go to the website under DVR it allows you to sign up for when the DVR box is ready for your area.

Don't know about your area, but INHD2 (882) in Boston has been taken down to make room for CBS (804). System is maxed, but 882 will probably be back around the time they add Starz (875) and Cinemax (868).

Well if 882 is off does that mean now, that we will not be getting the Bruins in HD. Well that figures first it's the Bruins and then on the first of January here there moving Channel 3 to some other local station in Springfield, is this another good chance of losing HD for the Playoffs, not to mention the Super Bowl, Come on Comcast just keep us hanging with all the changes and just keep increasing the fees for service........

NESN Bruins broadcasts will move to 881.

I noticed that Comcast has activated on demand, maybe that is where the bandwidth for INHD2 went. My Moto box also has a newer version of firmware.

Comcast has Added WBZ out of Boston for CBS Hidef so I would say channel 3 Hi def is going away.

Comcast has Added WBZ out of Boston for CBS Hidef so I would say channel 3 Hi def is going away.

I highly doubt that. I'm sure there is some sort of contractual agreement between WFSB Channel 3 and Comcast, so the fact that WBZ is now broadcasting HD on Comcast shouldn't change anything. Boston has WCVB and WHGH broadcasting in HD for ABC and NBC respectively, and we don't see those broadcasts. I'm not even sure where our local Comcast "hub" is located, but I'm pretty sure it's out of somewhere in Connecticut, not Boston.

Does anyone have any definitive information regarding the disappearance of InHD 882?

Anyone with any info about WGGB HD? I spoke to someone there last week and he claimed they were installing the equipment right then...

Hey jsg2020,

You've got the same set as I have had since December 2001. How has your Sharpie held up? I have blurred edges since day one but not willing to pay someone $500 to take a look at it. Definitely has a beautiful picture when fed properly.


I believe Comcast only shows the local broadcasters otherwise we would have been able to see the Boston channels for months.

Sharp's doing fine but I am waiting on a 65" Hitachi 65T500 for a room in my new house. I got the Sharp as an open box model so it has some scratches on it's screen. It looks pretty good when I watch HD though...

In case you guys havent checked WCTX channel 59 (DT channel 39-1) is coming in pretty strong, and has been for 4 days. I dont know if they powered up or not.

ralfy1,
Last night 12/29 was a good tropo night with a temperature inversion all channels were booming in. How about tonight?? Things are back to norm for me.
Jim

Yep your right WCTX is gone. That is so wierd, I just dont get how it can be that big of a difference overnight. Last night I was getting upper 60's tonight it doesnt go over 10. It really gets tiresome how the stations just get to drag there feet. Oh well, guess we just have to live with it. Oh by the way I'm back to hateing WGGB TV40, yes they suck again.

Does anyone have any definitive information regarding the disappearance of InHD 882?

I was watching the Bruins last night on INHD1 and they made an announcement that Bruins HD games would be on channel 881 (INDH1) until January 4th, then it will be back on 882 (INHD2).

Originally posted by ralfy1
In case you guys havent checked WCTX channel 59 (DT channel 39-1) is coming in pretty strong, and has been for 4 days. I dont know if they powered up or not.

I've just verified with the chief engineer at WCTX - and nothing's changed on his end. As someone else has subsequently posted - it just may be that we've had some good or unusual propagation.

(As you may be aware, the LIN hub in Chicopee is the central location for not only WWLP, but also WTNH and WCTX in the New Haven area as well as WPRI and WNAC in Providence. Of course - the transmissions of those stations are networked from Chicopee to the respective transmitter sites in those areas.)

Bob McCormick
WWLP

speaking of those tropical temperature inversions, I had a glorious OTA moment myself. Ya know how the Dish 6000 will i.d. the channel only if the signal is strong? well I entered 02 and the signal strength jumped to 100 and it said "transmit channel -2". I wondered how on Earth I got a station I never received before. Now I know mother Earth made it possible. Just for a few seconds, but possible!

Did anybody notice any audio problems on WFSB-DT on Comcast during the Colts vs. Broncos game? The audio kept coming in and out, but only during the live feeds not during the commercials. It was driving me crazy so I tried to listen to game on AM radio while I was watching but the picture was way behind. This actually isn't the first time this happened, I noticed it last week during the Patriots game, but I thought it was a fluke.

Originally posted by -KEK-
Did anybody notice any audio problems on WFSB-DT on Comcast during the Colts vs. Broncos game? The audio kept coming in and out, but only during the live feeds not during the commercials. It was driving me crazy so I tried to listen to game on AM radio while I was watching but the picture was way behind. This actually isn't the first time this happened, I noticed it last week during the Patriots game, but I thought it was a fluke. What town / Comcast system?

Wondering if anyone noticed this visa vis WFSB-DT's off-air signal?

I'm in Westfield

I noticed OmegaRed posted on the programming forum that he had the same issue, this week and last week.

WFSB DT Audio was having problems off air as well. The audio was dropping in level for a split second once every few seconds. I think the problem is on WFSB's end.
Jim

Thanks prompt replies. As you may know, Meridith Corp (owner of WFSB) bought the low power channel 67 on Mt. Tom from Trinity Broadcasting. They've got a new callsign for it - WSHM - and it is being programed as the CBS affiliate for the Springfield market. I assume we'll see at various points different advertising on 67 versus 3.

The reason why I bring this up is I have no idea how Comcast is getting the WFSB-DT signal onto the Comcast systems that are in western Massachusetts. I would expect that the regular (analogue) channel 3 that you see on Comcast cable (in Hampden, Hampsire and Franklin counties) is now really the channel 67 signal. But whether it is off-air or direct feed from WSFB who knows. Likewise with the WFSB-DT signal ... if the cable company is taking it off-air and there are any glitches with the off-air signal its going to be passed along to downstream cable customers. You may want to contact them - they may be interested in knowing.

I've also heard that they'll be doing some upgrades on the channel 33 tranmission systems in the near future (WFSB-DT is on channe 33) - so that may bring improvements.

For WWLP, whatever Comcast is carrying on the cable (WWLP-DT 22.3) they are taking it off-air. You should be seeing 22.1 standard def, 22.2 radar image and 22.3 HD. Hopefully some day there will be direct connections to Comcast and Charter - which will virtually ensure perfect signals.

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
WFSB DT Audio was having problems off air as well. The audio was dropping in level for a split second once every few seconds. I think the problem is on WFSB's end.
Jim


JVanderwalker has it right. Seems like all OTA live CBS sporting events have audio problems. And of course their regular programming audio is always very low.

Craig,
If you look at the thread on the Colts Broncos on the HD programming forum I think the problem this time is WFSB. Most of the country had no audio problems. Last week (Patriots-Bills) CBS had drop out and audio popping problems from their on site truck. We have to keep our fingers crossed on the future games.
Jim

I don't know if this if permanent but right now WFSB-DT is broadcasting a normal audio level.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I don't know if this if permanent but right now WFSB-DT is broadcasting a normal audio level.

Ditto @10:30pm CSI:Miami

Anyone in western MA pick up any 720p ABC OTA?

Nope!

We get ABC-5/DTV-20 out of Boston.

I noticed INHD2 is back on Comcast.

Do WFSB & WGBY send out sub channels? Has anyone with a QAM tuner found what cable channels the HD broadcast stations are on (Charter, Comcast)?

Sure would have been nice to see ABC in western Mass here in HD so we could be watching the Bruins game today in HD as well as last weeks football games, I tell you this Channel 40 SUCKS ROYALY, I'd rather watch WGBY in HD before I have to watch a show on Channel 40........

Why 40 won't do HDTV is beyond me.....

Bob118- Where about's in Feeding Hills do you live?

PM me...

I have read a review of the Comcast DVR, and it gets poor marks for usability and interface. Get a TiVo.

http://www.pvrcompare.com/

Rubber Bat

I'll probably add the Comcast PVR to compliment my Tivo for Hi Def recording

I posted the PVR/DVI update in the wrong thread. I've deleted it so as not to detract from the original post.

Anyone in western MA pick up any 720p ABC OTA?


I am close on WTNH DT from New Haven, Ct. which is on channel 10. I get a 30 signal on my Hughes E86 which is not quite enough. I am going to try to find a low noise preamp to replace the Winegard that I have now. This should buy me a couple of dB of S/N ratio.
Jim

Does anybody subscribe to Starz on Comcast? If so, is the HD channel up yet? How does it look?

I think WWLP has done something to the audio. Last night I was watching Friends and when it switched from a local ad to the network feed there wasn't a 3 or 4 second delay in the audio like there used to be.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I think WWLP has done something to the audio. Last night I was watching Friends and when it switched from a local ad to the network feed there wasn't a 3 or 4 second delay in the audio like there used to be.

This was fixed about a month ago.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I think WWLP has done something to the audio. Last night I was watching Friends and when it switched from a local ad to the network feed there wasn't a 3 or 4 second delay in the audio like there used to be. Indeed, we made some changes.

I have been working with a HiPix ATSC tuner card in a couple of computers and noticed some minor issues in the transport stream for 22.3 as we switched from (NBC) network to local and back. Some changes were made to improve upon this, although I suspect not everyone was seeing the problem as a 3 to 4 second delay - it really depends on how your ATSC tuner works. (Since these are software implementations and in many cases by different companies, etc. their behaviour sometimes varies!)

Thanks for letting us know!

For those who may be interested and are not already aware, we have information from NBC that the Daytona 500 race will be provided in HD format - and will be carried on WWLP-DT on 22.3.

Thanks for the info RPMcCormick. It's good to know that at least one of our local stations has somebody that reads this thread.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
For those who may be interested and are not already aware, we have information from NBC that the Daytona 500 race will be provided in HD format - and will be carried on WWLP-DT on 22.3.

Thanks for the update....How about the Summer Olympics in Athens this year?

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
For those who may be interested and are not already aware, we have information from NBC that the Daytona 500 race will be provided in HD format - and will be carried on WWLP-DT on 22.3.

Can you guys turn off SD version and use the bandwidth for HD. 12.8Mbps for HD is way not enough. Anything with any fast movement on 22.3 pixelates badly.

Originally posted by CKNA
Can you guys turn off SD version and use the bandwidth for HD. 12.8Mbps for HD is way not enough. Anything with any fast movement on 22.3 pixelates badly.

I have always wondered why a station would use a subchannel for the 480i feed. I can see if it was different programming, but to put out a digital version of the normal feed to me seems like a waste. I assume that it is for the cutoff of the analog broadcasting, but when that day comes everybody will need a digial STB anyway, which would be able to downconvert the HD signal to SD automatically for those who don't have HDTV's yet.

Edit: I just thought of a reason. If people were forced to watch the downconverted HD they would see the black bars on the top and bottom. Maybe that would finally give them a reason to buy a widescreen tv.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Indeed, we made some changes.

I have been working with a HiPix ATSC tuner card in a couple of computers and noticed some minor issues in the transport stream for 22.3 as we switched from (NBC) network to local and back. Some changes were made to improve upon this, although I suspect not everyone was seeing the problem as a 3 to 4 second delay - it really depends on how your ATSC tuner works. (Since these are software implementations and in many cases by different companies, etc. their behaviour sometimes varies!)

Thanks for letting us know!

I had noticed that this problem only occured when a local ad came on, like an ad for the 22 News or something like that. Also, I think the delay was being caused by my AV receiver switching out of dolby digital mode and then back into it (i would see the DD light on my JVC 8030VBX recevier flip off DD then back to it). When I tried the analog outputs of my samsung SIR-TS160 it did not have this delay.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I have always wondered why a station would use a subchannel for the 480i feed. I can see if it was different programming, but to put out a digital version of the normal feed to me seems like a waste. I assume that it is for the cutoff of the analog broadcasting, but when that day comes everybody will need a digial STB anyway, which would be able to downconvert the HD signal to SD automatically for those who don't have HDTV's yet.


Could it be that local cable companies are using an antenna to receive the digital 480i signal and then rebroadcasting that for their regular analog customers, instead of using a fiber link? Whatever the reason, it would be REALLY nice if WWLP could stop multicasting when broadcasting events like the olympics and the Daytona500, etc.

Originally posted by CraigD
Thanks for the update....How about the Summer Olympics in Athens this year? Have not heard anything yet - but will let you know when we know. It is such a big event I'm sure that you'll see promos for it on NBC. Olympics coverage will be carried on a number of NBC outlets, e.g. MSNBC, etc.

Originally posted by CKNA
Can you guys turn off SD version and use the bandwidth for HD. 12.8Mbps for HD is way not enough. Anything with any fast movement on 22.3 pixelates badly. Well, 22.3 is actually being encoded at 11.8 mbps for the video (just looked at the DiviCom MV400 encoder) ... and then you need to add to that the AC3 stream (I believe 192 kbps - I didn't check) plus the (minor) stream overhead.

I agree with your assessment; I've seen the artifacts with some of the stuff I'm doing on the personal side. Its been escalated internally ...

Originally posted by db999md
I had noticed that this problem only occured when a local ad came on, like an ad for the 22 News or something like that. Also, I think the delay was being caused by my AV receiver switching out of dolby digital mode and then back into it (i would see the DD light on my JVC 8030VBX recevier flip off DD then back to it). When I tried the analog outputs of my samsung SIR-TS160 it did not have this delay. All the audio on the WWLP-DT channels (22.1 and 22.3) are Dolby 2/0 AC3 encoded. This includes what is originated locally as well as what comes down from NBC. (Currently there is no 5.1 AC3 being fed - but the hardware does exist, so when the programming is available - we'll get the Dolby 5.1 setup.)

The problem you were likely seeing is when we switched back and forth from NBC network and internal sources there may have been some continuity errors (dropped packets) in the ATSC transport stream. How these errors are handled can differ widely. I noticed them on one decoder as a slight loss of audio, whilst the decoder resynced up. On another decoder it was a slight pop noise. Using a HiPix ATSC tuner card and then looking at the recorded data the continuity errors tended to get the audio out of sync.

It is likely that the Dolby light on your JVC was acting that way because of the brief (milliseconds) interruption in the stream. HTH!

Originally posted by JasonAndreas
Could it be that local cable companies are using an antenna to receive the digital 480i signal and then rebroadcasting that for their regular analog customers, instead of using a fiber link? Whatever the reason, it would be REALLY nice if WWLP could stop multicasting when broadcasting events like the olympics and the Daytona500, etc. You'd have to check with your local cable company to be sure - but AFAIK, none of the western Mass cable companies are picking up WWLP-DT 22.1, converting that to analogue and then providing that to viewers. If you think about it - all the cable companies have had the analogue equipment in place for quite some time to receive the off-air stations and deliver them to their customers! :D

I would expect that as time goes on - you would find cable operators moving towards getting their local feeds via non-off air means. But as you can expect, that may not be cheap - as a fibre run or DS3 telco circuit would be involved. It is very common in larger markets - and I would expect that you'll eventually see it in western Mass, too.

Viewers really won't be able to tell the difference though ... on the analogue side, you may get a slightly better signal (especially if the cable company was to take the SD 4:3 audio and video the way we pipe it around the station, which is in a digital mode!). But for the digital ATSC stuff: its digital all the way. The only time the quality would degrade ... is when the source material is being made available in a higher bit rate and it was being re-encoded at a lower bit rate going to you.

In some places you can now get WWLP-DT on the cable systems, too. I'm not sure if that is being provided in the off-air format (e.g., you can connect the cable to a ATSC TV tuner and get stations) - or in the format that is used on digital cable (which is a different modulation scheme, so a regular ATSC TV tuner won't decode it). Again - check with your cable company. (And yes, today they are taking WWLP-DT also off-air.)

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
You'd have to check with your local cable company to be sure
I wish we had a cable company out here in Goshen, instead we are stuck with satellite and rotating an antenna (and dialup and ...)

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
- but AFAIK, none of the western Mass cable companies are picking up WWLP-DT 22.1, converting that to analogue and then providing that to viewers.

So is there any reason for broadcasting a 4x3 480i picture on a subchannel?

Originally posted by JasonAndreas
I wish we had a cable company out here in Goshen, instead we are stuck with satellite and rotating an antenna (and dialup and ...)Well, I'm sure there are lots of other benefits for living in Goshen. ;) Not sure what kind or form of government you have there - but you could always raise the question to your town fathers asking for a committee or commission to investigate getting cable for the town. They in turn could start the process of granting a franchise. I'm not sure if anyone would bite - but sometimes a cable company that serves a nearby town would consider it.So is there any reason for broadcasting a 4x3 480i picture on a subchannel? (these comments are my own personal thoughts)

I've been having the same thoughts ... in effect, most of the time what is on the 22.1 channel and what is on the 22.3 channel are the same. That's what they call simulcast.

The only time it is different ... is when there's an NBC show in HD format. And then, the difference is that 22.1 will show you the SD (analogue equivalent) feed whilst 22.3 shows you the HD format.

Originally 22.3 was setup such that the SD 4:3 format program was stretched to fit the 16:9 format. That resulted in pretty strange looking programs - if you were watching the news when it was in that format you know what I mean!

That was changed to be what exists today: you will get the 4:3 format SD program on the HD channel with black bars left and right of the SD image. No more stretched images - but some TV and monitor manufacturers tell you not to view images continuously like that (you'll get burn in issues).

And as described - both 22.1 and 22.3 have the same 4:3 format program. Only difference is that the 22.3 is encoded at a much higher bit rate ... and has that fixed 16:9 format.

If the SD 22.1 was to go away - there would be more bandwidth to allocate to 22.3 which would mean better quality HD. But if the 22.3 HD was kept at 16:9 format ... and you viewed it on a 4:3 television ... you'd end up with black bars (inserted at the transmitting end) left and right of the image - AND - black bars top and bottom to get the 16:9 image to fit on your 4:3 screen. (And the resultant image that you watch would be MUCH smaller than the size of your TV or monitor!)

During a HD 16:9 show you'd get the 16:9 format full screen left to right ... and black bars at the top and bottom. This would be probably acceptable; its the exact same thing you get when you view a wide screen DVD disc on a regular TV.

Another thought would be: when 16:9 format programming is available have the encoder at the TV station generate 16:9 format - and when 4:3 format is available have it generate 4:3. I'm not sure if that capability exists with the equipment in place at WWLP; I know some other stations are doing that.

But the effect on the viewer's end may be a bit strange: your set would be at 16:9 format for a network HD feed ... but then would jump back to 4:3 format when a local advertisement is inserted. I've seen some sets do this - and sometimes there is (IMO) an objectionable flicker and/or delay (as the set adjusts to the changes in the transmission format.

Local PBS station WGBY has an interesting approach: during the day you can watch one of four SD 4:3 programs ... and at night, all those typically go away and you get the single channel HD feed. That's cool: IMO best image you can locally view off-air.

Lastly, as we look to the future ... at some point the FCC is going to make all broadcasters turn off their analogue transmitters. As that will most certainly happen before everyone has a digital (and HD capable set) there may be some need to keep a SD feed live on the digital ATSC channels.

So ... those are my personal views ... I'd be interested in what other local digital viewers think - and I'll be glad to pass your thoughts along.

Great post...thanks for the update on ch 22's current status. Certainly has come a long way since those stretched news casts!

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
but you could always raise the question to your town fathers asking for a committee or commission to investigate getting cable for the town. They in turn could start the process of granting a franchise. I'm not sure if anyone would bite - but sometimes a cable company that serves a nearby town would consider it.

Unfortunately there are too few people living too far away from each other for any cable company to be interested. It really sucks when you can go 500' down the road and your neighbor has a broadband cable modem but you still have trouble getting a 33.6kbps dialup connection. I shouldn't complain too much, there are a few houses in town that don't have electricity because the owners can't afford to have poles put in and the lines run an extra 1/4 - 1/2 mile.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
If the SD 22.1 was to go away - there would be more bandwidth to allocate to 22.3 which would mean better quality HD. But if the 22.3 HD was kept at 16:9 format ... and you viewed it on a 4:3 television ... you'd end up with black bars (inserted at the transmitting end) left and right of the image - AND - black bars top and bottom to get the 16:9 image to fit on your 4:3 screen. (And the resultant image that you watch would be MUCH smaller than the size of your TV or monitor!)

My Sony 4x3 HDTV set and HD100 receiver has a button on the remote to automatically switch from 1080i mode to 480i with the picture appropriately scaled down and cropped when a 16x9 1080i channel is actually 4x3 upconverted material with black bars around the edges. (the image appears full screen)


Originally posted by RPMcCormick
During a HD 16:9 show you'd get the 16:9 format full screen left to right ... and black bars at the top and bottom. This would be probably acceptable; its the exact same thing you get when you view a wide screen DVD disc on a regular TV.

If your watching a 1080i image native on a 4x3 set that is what you get, black bars on the top and bottom.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Another thought would be: when 16:9 format programming is available have the encoder at the TV station generate 16:9 format - and when 4:3 format is available have it generate 4:3. I'm not sure if that capability exists with the equipment in place at WWLP; I know some other stations are doing that.

The fewer subchannels the better. Having a subchannel around some of the time but not all the time will end up confusing people. (a great place to see just how easily people are confused is at the tollbooths getting onto the MassPike. There will be three lanes; 1) CASH, 2) FastLane and 3) cash OR fastlane. No matter what there is always a huge line of cars for lane 1, most of which are blocking entrance to lane 2 all the while lane 3 (also for cash) is completely empty (except for the random person in lane 1 that finally realizes he/she can use lane 3 and then cuts in front you without looking just as you are about to go through the fastlane at 15mph.)


Originally posted by RPMcCormick
I'd be interested in what other local digital viewers think - and I'll be glad to pass your thoughts along.

Everyone watching channel 22.* on a 4x3 HDTV compatible TV has the option of switching to the analog broadcast for a 4x3 non-upconverted image OR changing the output mode on their settop box (I think zenith is the only one that requires you to get up from where you are sitting and actually touch a button on your receiver) What we can't control is dcc smearing, macroblocking and video stuttering caused by a lack of bandwidth. During the last winter olympics we watched WHDH TV-7/DTV-42 for about 2 seconds and then switched over to HDnet because of all the artifacts. After the first day I think channel 7 turned off their 4x3 simulcast for the rest of the olympics because of the complaints. As a 4x3 set owner I would rather have to occasionally hit a button on my remote to crop & scale the image in exchange for having an almost artifact free 1080i image.

The weather subchannel 22.2 SHOULD stay. There is so little movement in the image I can't see how it would take up any real bandwidth. If it was, couldn't the encoder be set to output fewer I-frames? On some DirecTV channels the i-frames are only being sent every 3-5 seconds and people have accepted it. It would be interesting to find out how much extra bandwidth would be required for the weather guys to have their computers output the doppler radar image at 1080i.

I live in a real bad spot for reception in Chester, MA. Until the DT signals showed up, I have had no local reception at all except for Channel 3 analog, and 8 sometimes.
I have a rooftop antenna-combo uhf/vhf deep fringe, amplified, that is about 5' above the second story roof.
I recently got a DT tuner and was able to pull in 22(-1,2,3), and channel 10 New Haven. I can't get any signal at all from WGGB or WGBY.
Unfortunately, I'm on the Western slope of a hill, but able to get 22 DT with a 72% signal most of the time.

I'm looking for a local installer to put up a 30' telescoping mast and guy it for me. I've also purchased a CM 4228-8 bay UHF antenna and Wingard UHF only preamp to go on top of the combo antenna. I plan to run separate UHF and VHF lines to the receiver as I have a remote switched A/B switch.

I know that all DT stations are operating at reduced power now, but I think the additional height, and separate UHF antenna will help a lot.
Anyone in this area who knows who does antenna installation that I could call/talk to?
Dave

Originally posted by JasonAndreas
Unfortunately there are too few people living too far away from each other for any cable company to be interested. It really sucks when you can go 500' down the road and your neighbor has a broadband cable modem but you still have trouble getting a 33.6kbps dialup connection. I shouldn't complain too much, there are a few houses in town that don't have electricity because the owners can't afford to have poles put in and the lines run an extra 1/4 - 1/2 mile. :D
Oh well - it was just an idea! FYI - Granville MA (west of Southwick MA) has been cabled for a number of years and is pretty rural.My Sony 4x3 HDTV set and HD100 receiver has a button on the remote to automatically switch from 1080i mode to 480i with the picture appropriately scaled down and cropped when a 16x9 1080i channel is actually 4x3 upconverted material with black bars around the edges. (the image appears full screen)All my personal stuff at home is Sony ... but unfortunately, not all vendors implement it the same.:( Having a subchannel around some of the time but not all the time will end up confusing people.Well - it not only will confuse people but it will also confuse most tuners. From my experience, many/most will allow you to scan the band - and build a table of "channels" based on what it finds at that moment in time. But then if sometime later the broadcaster changes things (like takes the .1 channel and makes it 4:3 versus 16:9 and adds a couple of PID's or channels) your tuner may not catch them. And vice versa, if subchannels that were there are no longer found ... Everyone watching channel 22.* on a 4x3 HDTV compatible TV has the option of switching to the analog broadcast for a 4x3 non-upconverted image OR changing the output mode on their settop box (I think zenith is the only one that requires you to get up from where you are sitting and actually touch a button on your receiver)That is correct - for at least the period of time that the analogue format is still available. The question that does not have an answer today is what will happen when the FCC tells broadcasters to turn off analogue transmitters. And off-air viewers may have a different scenario than cable customers. What we can't control is dcc smearing, macroblocking and video stuttering caused by a lack of bandwidth. During the last winter olympics we watched WHDH TV-7/DTV-42 for about 2 seconds and then switched over to HDnet because of all the artifacts. After the first day I think channel 7 turned off their 4x3 simulcast for the rest of the olympics because of the complaints. As a 4x3 set owner I would rather have to occasionally hit a button on my remote to crop & scale the image in exchange for having an almost artifact free 1080i image.Tnx info ... will be looking at this closely. Have also passed it along internally.The weather subchannel 22.2 SHOULD stay. There is so little movement in the image I can't see how it would take up any real bandwidth. If it was, couldn't the encoder be set to output fewer I-frames? On some DirecTV channels the i-frames are only being sent every 3-5 seconds and people have accepted it. It would be interesting to find out how much extra bandwidth would be required for the weather guys to have their computers output the doppler radar image at 1080i. Well, I believe the encoder's minimum bandwidth setting is 1.5 mbps - which for today's content is far excess than what is necessary, that's for sure. But you pose a great question: can the encoder be setup to encode less I-frames. DirecTV has a benefit of some differences in the fact that they control a large amount of spectrum and can play with it as they please. As for the way the radar image (currently I think the only thing that's fed on 22.2) is generated and transmitted: it is either standard definition 4:3 analogue or SDI signal from the computer that generates it. That system is not capable of 16:9 or anything else. We could upconvert it to 16:9 format (waste) - but that would also require a different encoder for 22.2 to do so.

Casting my vote for 1 channel all the time, no multicasting. Always broadcast the OAR & let the viewer decide what to do with a 480i signal (stretch or present with black bars). We'll worry about someone viewing digital TV on an analog set when someone is actually doing it, for now, service the customers that are viewing your digital transmissions - all HDTV owners.

Also, it will solve my issue with your DirecTV listings (or lack thereof) on 22-3. I've asked a number of times for you to tell DirecTV that 22-3 is on the air so they can begin transmitting listings for that sub-channel to no avail. Can someone please make this call to DirecTV. If you need a contact let me know, I have the name/number over there!

JMHO.

Also, it will solve my issue with your DirecTV listings (or lack thereof) on 22-3.

This has been a minor inconvenience for me as well. With a 24/7 listing of "Regular Schedule" I cannot record using the "one-touch" recording on my HD box. I have to do it the old fashioned way by programming the VCR (THE HORROR) and leaving the STB powered "ON" all day or night. like I said, a minor inconvenience.

TV40 still sucks...

Would be interested in feedback of anyone watching the NBC HD coverage of the Daytona races - both Saturday and Sunday this weekend.

Just saw part of the Busch race it looked great, not alot of macroblocking. The colors also looked really good. Then came back to find a replay of the twin 125's being run and it looked worse. Just didnt have the detail in the picture like the Busch race. I will say the 125's looked like it was more sunny outside and the busch race was overcast maybe making the busch race look more detailed. Hey RP does 22 have any plans to do local HD like news cast or anything. I dont know the cost of equipment so I would understand it being a cost issue. Also any plans on 5.1?

Originally posted by ralfy1
Just saw part of the Busch race it looked great ... does 22 have any plans to do local HD like news cast or anything. I dont know the cost of equipment so I would understand it being a cost issue. Also any plans on 5.1? Thanks for the feedback. As for local HD origination, I am not aware of any immediate plans for it. And yes: 16:9 format and HD equipment is very expensive! Dolby 5.1 will be a reality - the equipment is in place but no in-line. It won't take much more bandwidth (maybe something like 384 kbps or 512 kbps versus the 192 kbps for the Dolby Digital 2/0 AC3 format today). At this point I am not aware of any NBC programming that is fed in Dolby 5.1. Will provide an update when a plan for implementation of DD5.1 is known.

HDTV Newbie from Springfield area wondering what channels are broadcast locally OTA. I have had Voom installed and am only getting 22-1, 57-1, and 40-1. I have read Voom sucks with OTA reception and this seems to be the case with my setup. FYI if you were wondering... I have an amplified Channel Master 3018 pointed slightly southwest; I have a rotator on the way which I know will help. I'm thinking a better antenna would also help. Thanks in advance.

-Chris

Originally posted by adtoolco
HDTV Newbie from Springfield area wondering what channels are broadcast locally OTA. I have had Voom installed and am only getting 22-1, 57-1, and 40-1. I have read Voom sucks with OTA reception and this seems to be the case with my setup. FYI if you were wondering... I have an amplified Channel Master 3018 pointed slightly southwest; I have a rotator on the way which I know will help. I'm thinking a better antenna would also help. Thanks in advance. Few thoughts:

If you are not familiar with the AntennaWeb site from Decisionmark try that out. You can find it here (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx).

Please remember that some of the ATSC (digital television) transmissions are on VHF channels. For example, WWLP analogue is on UHF 22 but WWLP-DT ATSC (digital) is on VHF 11. This may require that you have multiple antennas - just like in the old days: one for UHF and another for VHF.

You mention Springfield (not sure if that means the city proper) and pointing your antenna southwest. The AntennaWeb site will give you a better idea where to point an antenna for various stations. WWLP is on Provin Mountain in Feeding Hills - almost due west of Springfield. You should get a whopping signal. WGBY (58 digital) and WGGB (55 digital) are on Mt. Tom which would be almost due north of Springfield. You should be getting a good signal from WGBY - but I think WGGB is still running low power.

Depending on where you are - you may also be able to receive our sister station WTNH-DT which is on channel 10 (VHF antenna almost due south). Our other sister station WCTX-DT (UPN) is also on, on channel 39. But unlikely you will be able to receive it - experience in the Springfield area is that the lower side band from WGGB channel 40 wipes out WCTX-DT.

WTXX-DT (WB) digital assignment is on channel 12 at a heading of 219 from Springfield. But I have not seen it personally myself ...

WFSB-DT is on channel 33 (UHF). And about the same heading as WTXX: 220 degrees from Springfield. They are currently also running reduced power but should be cranking it up in the next couple of weeks. (Search the AVS Forum for the thread on CT stations - more info there.)

WUVN-DT is on channel 46 from Hartford (also 220 degrees from Springfield) with Spanish language programming.

The other Hartford stations of interest are WVIT which will show up on channel 35 and WTIC which will show up on channel 31. Not on air yet; possibly sometime in April? Again - check out the CT thread here.

Have fun!

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Few thoughts:

If you are not familiar with the AntennaWeb site from Decisionmark try that out. You can find it here (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx).

Please remember that some of the ATSC (digital television) transmissions are on VHF channels. For example, WWLP analogue is on UHF 22 but WWLP-DT ATSC (digital) is on VHF 11. This may require that you have multiple antennas - just like in the old days: one for UHF and another for VHF.

You mention Springfield (not sure if that means the city proper) and pointing your antenna southwest. The AntennaWeb site will give you a better idea where to point an antenna for various stations. WWLP is on Provin Mountain in Feeding Hills - almost due west of Springfield. You should get a whopping signal.

My Dad lives in Feeding Hills. Almost Near the Agawam Highschool.

I can get TV 22 analog- But Not digital.

What am I doing wrong?

Wrong antenna?

Also, I can not pick up TV22 HDTV at my store in Holyoke. I can get 40 digital and PBS just fine. What's the deal?

Originally posted by Mfusick
My Dad lives in Feeding Hills. Almost Near the Agawam Highschool. I can get TV 22 analog- But Not digital. What am I doing wrong? Wrong antenna?Wow. That location in Feeding Hills / Agawam should have no problem with reception of WWLP-DT. There could be an antenna issue. WWLP-DT is on VHF channel 11. So if whatever you're using to receive ATSC (digital) signals has a separate input for VHF you need to connect an antenna source to it. You could try a pair of rabbit ears. Note: WWLP-DT is horizontally polarized so your best reception might be with rabbit ears more horizontal than vertical.Also, I can not pick up TV22 HDTV at my store in Holyoke. I can get 40 digital and PBS just fine. What's the deal? Well - almost anywhere in Holyoke you should be in the shadow of Mount Tom, where both WGBY and WGGB transmitters are. So that explains why no problem with those stations.

Depending where in Holyoke - you may have some problems with WWLP ... as there is some blockage from terrain as you go into some of the lower parts of Holyoke. In troubleshooting, at the Holyoke location can you receive the analogue stations on channel 43 or 65? Both of them are being transmitted from Provin Mountain in Feeding Hills.

One problem that can occur is multi-path. That is to say the path a signal takes from the transmitter to your receiver (antenna) may actually not be a straight line - but a more round about way - and more than one way. And in some cases parts of a signal may reach you just a tad bit faster or slower than others (hence the multi-path). That makes it more difficult for the digital tuner to lock onto the signal. Sometimes trying to point an antenna in a different direction will help pull in the strongest path signal (whilst rejecting other paths). And although the transmission is normally horizontally polarized sometimes moving antennas around (especially in-house rabbit ears and loop antennas) could also help pull in the signal better.

Lastly - WWLP-DT is still running under an STA. In lay terms, not running at the full power. In the future you should expect even better coverage from WWLP-DT.

Thank you for the help!

At Holyoke- It's near the Holyoke mall, at Holyoke Crossings (Circuit City)

We have a metal roof, so we get crap for reception but we would like to be able to recieve and show customers local channels are available in digital. It helps sell HDTV's and HDTV tuners as well as antennas and install:)

Originally posted by Mfusick
Thank you for the help!You're welcome!At Holyoke- It's near the Holyoke mall, at Holyoke Crossings (Circuit City)

We have a metal roof, so we get crap for reception but we would like to be able to recieve and show customers local channels are available in digital. It helps sell HDTV's and HDTV tuners as well as antennas and install:) I'll try to attach a map that shows the situation. Signals from WGBY and WGGB should come booming in your front door. Unfortunately signals from Feeding Hills are somewhat blocked by the hills just to the southwest of you - Interstate Drive - where the water tower, K&M, etc. And yes: being inside that steel building (roof et al) won't help getting RF into your sets' tuners!

You should consider an external antenna. Shouldn't be that difficult to get one setup somewhere - especially up on the roof. Try taking a small portable set outside - and with a small antenna, see if you can pickup those low power UHF stations (43 and 65) on Provin. If so - you should have no problem getting WWLP-DT given some way of getting the RF into the sets! (You have the ability to receive satellite internally? Just get another coax feed parallel to that one!)

Of course, most of the HD programming is in the evening - and number of hours of HD shows is ever increasing ... be nice to be able to show customers what they could be seeing at home on a new ATSC set! (In support of getting some kind of antenna setup at your location - some of your local competition does have the setup you're talking about - where they have receive antennas to show actual ATSC digital television to customer prospects.)

Good luck!
http://www.wwlp.com/images/WWLPmap1.png

Daytona500 looks good but not as good as the WRAL Busch race coverage from the PBS demo loop, things are a LOT blurrier. The metal connector on the coax cable attached to my UHF antenna came out (bad crimping job) so I can't compare with TV-7/DTV-42 out of Boston.

Daytona500 looks good

Better than SD, but it just didn't have that "WOW" factor I was hoping for. I think NBC did a pretty decent job integrating the SD car cams with the HD cams. Maybe it was the light, the camera angles or something else, but I was looking for a little more.

//Few thoughts:

If you are not familiar with the AntennaWeb site from Decisionmark try that out. You can find it here.

Please remember that some of the ATSC (digital television) transmissions are on VHF channels. For example, WWLP analogue is on UHF 22 but WWLP-DT ATSC (digital) is on VHF 11. This may require that you have multiple antennas - just like in the old days: one for UHF and another for VHF.\\

The antenna I have is a UHF/VHF combo type.


//You mention Springfield (not sure if that means the city proper) and pointing your antenna southwest. The AntennaWeb site will give you a better idea where to point an antenna for various stations. WWLP is on Provin Mountain in Feeding Hills - almost due west of Springfield. You should get a whopping signal. WGBY (58 digital) and WGGB (55 digital) are on Mt. Tom which would be almost due north of Springfield. You should be getting a good signal from WGBY - but I think WGGB is still running low power.\\

Actually I'm in Ludlow...I get WWLP as 22-1 but why don't I get 22-2 ond 22-3? Should I get them?

-Chris

Originally posted by adtoolco
Actually I'm in Ludlow...I get WWLP as 22-1 but why don't I get 22-2 ond 22-3? Should I get them? Yes!

What are you using for a tuner / receiver? Typically here's what the problem is: many boxes have to scan the band looking for ATSC signals. When they find one they tune into it and from the program stream they extract the PID's (sorry - technical terms) and remember the subchannels. Older tuners don't do this every time you tune to a channel - so if the station changes what its broadcasting you don't / won't see it.

Sometimes you can actually enter the channel number, like 22.3 (consult the documentation for your tuner / receiver) ... otherwise you may have to rescan the band to pick up on what the current situation is.

Originally WWLP-DT was only transmitting 22.1 and that with a standard definition (SD) picture. The next step was to add a new high definition (HD) encoder and that was put on 22.3. That's been running for quite some time now. And the last thing that was added (some months ago) was 22.2 which is just the weather radar (no audio).

In closing, I should note that you may also be seeing some changes to this ... as optimizations are made to improve the HD broadcasts!

Originally posted by RPMcCormick

In closing, I should note that you may also be seeing some changes to this ... as optimizations are made to improve the HD broadcasts!

Hurrah!!!! ray-rah (however you spell it.) Would there be any chance WWLP would be interested in hosting a station/transmitter/tower tour for the 100 or so AVS members reading this forum thread? Channel 4 in Boston had been talking about a tower tour for years but it never happened. Does Marianne Ward still work for the station and if so could she be involved? :)

Originally posted by JasonAndreas
Hurrah!!!! ray-rah (however you spell it.)You're welcome! :DWould there be any chance WWLP would be interested in hosting a station/transmitter/tower tour for the 100 or so AVS members reading this forum thread? Channel 4 in Boston had been talking about a tower tour for years but it never happened.OK - now that it has been brought to my attention that I didn't read and understand the question the first time around - I've edited my response removing the irrevalant comments! Sorry about that! (See the answer to the actual question a couple of messages below.)Does Marianne Ward still work for the station and if so could she be involved? I have not seen Marianne much ... I think she is just doing occasional weekend work filling in for other anchors.

RP I think Jason was asking if WWLP would host a tour of the tower, not the tower itself.

Originally posted by -KEK-
RP I think Jason was asking if WWLP would host a tour of the tower, not the tower itself. My my ... if I could only read ...
Would there be any chance WWLP would be interested in hosting a station/transmitter/tower tour for the 100 or so AVS members reading this forum thread?The station does occasionally do tours. Let me see if something can be put together. I don't think there's any way we could handle 100 people though ... what would people be interest in seeing? I'm assuming that the interest is of the hub facility in Chicopee and not the transmitter site on Provin Mountain.

We've been talking about also putting together a virtual tour on the web site as well ...

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Yes!

What are you using for a tuner / receiver? Typically here's what the problem is: many boxes have to scan the band looking for ATSC signals. When they find one they tune into it and from the program stream they extract the PID's (sorry - technical terms) and remember the subchannels. Older tuners don't do this every time you tune to a channel - so if the station changes what its broadcasting you don't / won't see it.



RP,

I'm using a Voom receiver. From what I've read so far Voom is having trouble with their bit-mapping.(I'm not sure what that is) Anyway I wanted to have a list of available digital channels so when I call and bitch they can get it right. Thanks for your help by the way.

-Chris

Some changes at WWLP-DT:

22.1 is now running a slide informing viewers to tune to 22.3

WWLP-DT's main programming will now be seen on 22.3. It will consist of WWLP's standard definition programming except for those times when NBC HD 16:9 programming is available.

The next phase will include some bandwidth adjustments to improve the quality of the 22.3 HD broadcasts.

There may be some delays in updates to electronic program guides.

The 22.1 slide also has an email address you can use if you have any problems. You can also post in the AVS forums as well. As always, viewer feedback and comments are welcome.

RPMcCormick,

Thanks again for the continued updates.

Originally posted by adtoolco
I'm using a Voom receiver. From what I've read so far Voom is having trouble with their bit-mapping.(I'm not sure what that is) Anyway I wanted to have a list of available digital channels so when I call and bitch they can get it right. Thanks for your help by the way. Glad to help. I've heard of Voom and see that Titan TV (DecisionMark) has support for Voom ... but unfortunately I previously had no other knowledge of the product.

So I did a bit of searching and reading ... seems Voom is from Rainbow DBS, Cablevision Systems satellite division. Looks like it was launched on 15 Oct 2003; charter members were to pay no monthly programming fees through Jan 2004. Neat. Sears one of their largest outlets - most stores should have them. VOOM's web site is located here (http://www.voom.com/index.jsp).

Is it a Motorola box? Looks like maybe a custom unit - to handle the MPEG4 streams from the satellite ... and also has an integral ATSC tuner for off-air television. Both satellite and terrestrial digital broadcasting is using some pretty high-tech encoding ... and in the year+ that I've been playing with it I've seen all kinds of crazy things. Not uncommon to have software problems with the tuners/decoders.

You may have to tell the box to scan the off-air channels ... for it to find all the available sub-channels for each station. You may also want to check to see if there's a way to enter a channel and sub-channel, as in 2 2 dot 3. From the Voom web site - appears that you get some kind of 2-year support deal with the equipment? Maybe if they don't have a way to upgrade the software in the box (like the cable operators do) they can send you another box with the latest, greatest software in it?

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Some changes at WWLP-DT:

22.1 is now running a slide informing viewers to tune to 22.3

WWLP-DT's main programming will now be seen on 22.3. It will consist of WWLP's standard definition programming except for those times when NBC HD 16:9 programming is available.

The next phase will include some bandwidth adjustments to improve the quality of the 22.3 HD broadcasts.

There may be some delays in updates to electronic program guides.

The 22.1 slide also has an email address you can use if you have any problems. You can also post in the AVS forums as well. As always, viewer feedback and comments are welcome.

WWLP "was" one of the two DTV channels that I could receive out here in the hills of Chester. Since they did the changes I'm unable to lock onto the signal, and I have a rotor and rooftop antenna.

I previously got a 75% signal, which is not great, but since their "bandwidth" adjustments I am only getting 49-62% tops, and bouncing.

22-3 isn't there anymore for me.

Dave

Why can't WWLP just air the HD on 22-1 instead of 22-3?

It would be a lot less confusing. :)

Originally posted by Dav_Or
WWLP "was" one of the two DTV channels that I could receive out here in the hills of Chester. Since they did the changes I'm unable to lock onto the signal, and I have a rotor and rooftop antenna. I previously got a 75% signal, which is not great, but since their "bandwidth" adjustments I am only getting 49-62% tops, and bouncing. 22-3 isn't there anymore for me. Actually, the three sub-channel encoders are still in-line and all bandwidth is as it has been for the last couple of months. There may be something else at play here ...

Technically speaking, ATSC transmitters put out a constant bit rate of around 19.39 mbps. The changes that we're working on will dedicate more bandwidth to the HD broadcasts - which should result in a better viewing experience. But none of these things should have any effect on the RF getting to you.

Over the last few months there has been a lot of tower work ... but I do not believe anything that should have affected the signal in the direction of Chester. Do you have any feeling for when you noticed the signal dropped?

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Why can't WWLP just air the HD on 22-1 instead of 22-3?

It would be a lot less confusing. :) I'll pass your comment on, thanks. It may actually end up there in the end.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Actually, the three sub-channel encoders are still in-line and all bandwidth is as it has been for the last couple of months. There may be something else at play here ...


Over the last few months there has been a lot of tower work ... but I do not believe anything that should have affected the signal in the direction of Chester. Do you have any feeling for when you noticed the signal dropped?

The drop in singnal, from the mid 70s to a steady 62 as of this morning occurred last week sometime.

I tried tweaking with the rotor this morning, and the best I can get is 62% signal.

I still haven't had any luck getting anyone to help with the tower, so I'm looking around for a 30-40' telescoping mast to put my CM 4228 up on.

Dave

Hey just to update you guys WTIC Fox 61 is coming in at 100 percent. I live in Downtown Springfield.

I thought FOX wasn't broadcasting in HD yet..??

Well no not HD yet, but 480p Widescreen is better then plain old analog. Plus I hear that the shows they do in 480p widescreen look very good. They will do HD (720p) later in the year, so they say.

I have a solid 100 on WTICDT up here as well.
Jim

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
I have a solid 100 on WTICDT up here as well.
Jim

Not a peep up here in Chester..

My Sony HD-200 finally picked up 61.1 this evening. Now we wait until 9pm
for "The OC" which is suppose to be in Fox Widescreen.

I cant understand why you wouldnt get anything out in Chester. The signal is so strong, I thought you would at least get something. Well sorry to hear that, dont know how much stronger the signal can get. By the way I'm out in Chester every wednesday, I sell liquor so I have all the stops out there.

Originally posted by ralfy1
I cant understand why you wouldnt get anything out in Chester. The signal is so strong, I thought you would at least get something. Well sorry to hear that, dont know how much stronger the signal can get. By the way I'm out in Chester every wednesday, I sell liquor so I have all the stops out there.


Heh, the stops are pretty lean up here. :)

I'm not in town, I'm off the Skyline trail and 1/2 down the West side of a 1400ft hill.

Just picked up a 40' telescoping mast today, and either I'll install it or have it installed if I chicken out.;)

Originally posted by Dav_Or
Heh, the stops are pretty lean up here. :)

I'm not in town, I'm off the Skyline trail and 1/2 down the West side of a 1400ft hill.

Just picked up a 40' telescoping mast today, and either I'll install it or have it installed if I chicken out.;)

Can you get WCDC (ch 19;ch 36 digital) ? I can't get WCDCDT at all since I am up against the east side of a hill.
Jim

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
Can you get WCDC (ch 19;ch 36 digital) ? I can't get WCDCDT at all since I am up against the east side of a hill.
Jim

No, nothing at all. Maybe when I get the new mast up. No WGBY or WGGB either.

Originally posted by Dav_Or
No, nothing at all. Maybe when I get the new mast up. No WGBY or WGGB either.

How well do get analog wggb and wgbh? Can I assume that you can get wwlpdt? BTW I can see mt. Tom and I can't get a lock on wggbdt. I think there is something wrong with their data stream.
Jim

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
How well do get analog wggb and wgbh? Can I assume that you can get wwlpdt? BTW I can see mt. Tom and I can't get a lock on wggbdt. I think there is something wrong with their data stream.
Jim

I get enough of Channel 40 and 57 to tell that there is a station there, but unwatchable at all points of the compass.

I get WWLP-DT "sometimes". The signal lately has gone from 73-75% to 61-63% here when I can get a lock on it.

Can someone tell me why Las Vegas has not been running in HD on WWLP the last few weeks. They run all the other NBC prime time stuff, but not Las Vegas. They used to run it in HD. Is someone not flipping the HD switch or something?

Also, I'm getting tired of asking for WWLP to get their listings for 22-3 published on the DirecTV guide. Especially now that they are only transmitting on that sub-channel. Really annoying. I have the DirecTV contact if they need it - PM me.

Does anyone here know if Comcast has plans to pickup the WTICDT feed in Mass? I've been flipping through the 800s since I read reports here that people were picking it up on their antennas but I haven't seen any indication that it's going to be there.

Originally posted by markus16
Does anyone here know if Comcast has plans to pickup the WTICDT feed in Mass? I've been flipping through the 800s since I read reports here that people were picking it up on their antennas but I haven't seen any indication that it's going to be there. Other than calling Comcast and asking them :D

Look for the AVS forum thread for the CT ATSC HD stations ... I think the assistant chief engineer at WTIC has recently joined the discussion. (Sorry - I'd give you a link but I'm not using my normal system to post this reply - should be able to easily search for it.) Asking there may get a response from WTIC ...

Originally posted by Such
Can someone tell me why Las Vegas has not been running in HD on WWLP the last few weeks. They run all the other NBC prime time stuff, but not Las Vegas. They used to run it in HD. Is someone not flipping the HD switch or something?I also noticed it was not in HD this week and indeed we had some problem with HD on Tuesday as well. Not sure if there was an issue with NBC sending an upconverted feed versus the HD programming - or if the episode was not shot in HD? (It was listed in the DecisionMark guide as being in HD format - but that's not always correct.)Also, I'm getting tired of asking for WWLP to get their listings for 22-3 published on the DirecTV guide. Especially now that they are only transmitting on that sub-channel. Really annoying. I have the DirecTV contact if they need it - PM me. Got some contact info - hopefully we can get the right people hooked up and get the guide working for 22.3.

Look for the AVS forum thread for the CT ATSC HD stations Not sure what the proper way is providing a link to an AVS forum ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=315169

Or click on this link:
The Somewhat Official Hartford and all of CT Connecticut HDTV thread! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=315169)

HTH!

Originally posted by markus16
Does anyone here know if Comcast has plans to pickup the WTICDT feed in Mass? I've been flipping through the 800s since I read reports here that people were picking it up on their antennas but I haven't seen any indication that it's going to be there.

I've been waiting for this too. We've got CBS and NBC, now we just need FOX and ABC. And since WGGB isn't playing nice I wish Comcast would give us an ABC feed out of the Eastern MA market, or even CT.

However, I noticed that since March 1 Comcast has changed their lineup somewhat. They now have only one lineup listed for all of Western MA where before it was more town by town. It'll be interesting to see if they add any new HD channels.

Originally posted by pianoman41
And since WGGB isn't playing nice I wish Comcast would give us an ABC feed out of the Eastern MA market, or even CT.

However, I noticed that since March 1 Comcast has changed their lineup somewhat. They now have only one lineup listed for all of Western MA where before it was more town by town. It'll be interesting to see if they add any new HD channels. A view of the Comcast web site, using the Agawam MA town hall address, results in this link for the program lineup:

http://www.comcast.com/Support/viewCLU.asp?CLUID=83148

I'm not sure if this lineup is similar or the same for all western Mass Comcast communities ... but you'll notice WTNH ABC from New Haven is in the basic channel lineup - WTNH puts a pretty good signal into the western Mass market.

WTNH-DT can also be pretty easily received in the greater Springfield MA area ... so one could assume that Comcast should be able to receive an ABC HD feed from the Connecticut affiliate. (If Comcast can't receive a reliable off-air signal from WTNH-DT they also have other methods of getting signals from CT into western Mass.)

Comcast has already established that they're willing to put a CT HD feed on their western Mass systems with WFSB-DT on channel 803. Therefore would only seem logical that they could do the same with WTNH-DT. It is certainly technically feasible.

I would definitely start by letting Comcast know your desires. It may also help if you could make this known to local Comcast management versus just telling someone at a (distant) customer support center.

BTW: in case you are a Comcast subscriber and not yet aware - as of March 1st Comcast is now carrying all of WGBY-DT's sub-channels, including WGBY World 58.2 on Comcast 209, WGBY Kids 58.3 on Comcast 217 and WGBY Create 58.4 on Comcast 237. More information can be found here (http://www.wgby.org/digital/index.html) on WGBY's web site.

I thought the lack of 720p Monday night football on ABC was the result of TV40.... and there local rights or somthing....??

Someone told me that TV40 won't allow another ABC channel from CT in their local area.... and they also refuse to upgrade to HDTV.

In Feeding Hills, I can not get the 55.1 signal from ABC from MT Tom, becuase it's sooooo low power... It comes in for a few seconds and that's it.

The tower is right next to the 57.1 tower from PBS which I get a clean 100 signal on..... so it's not location but power....

TV40 sucks.

I refuse to watch untill they straighten out....

Originally posted by ralfy1
Hey just to update you guys WTIC Fox 61 is coming in at 100 percent. I live in Downtown Springfield.

Yes .. 100% in Feeding Hills too:)

Mfusick you are correct about TV40 not allowing a Conn. ABC HD feed into the western MA market. Comcast already had a deal with WTNH-HD but TV40 vetoed it.

Originally posted by Mfusick
Yes .. 100% in Feeding Hills too:)

What kind of antenna are you recieving WTIC at 100%. Probably a roof mounted one.

Yes..... Two actually....

One pointed north and one pointed south..... in Feeding Hills.

Funny thing was that I could not recieve TV22 at all.....

I stripped a RG6 coax and wrapped the copper core around the chimeny and tied the two antennas together and now I have 100% on tv22 too....

I posted a comment in another thread about TV40 vetoeing the WTNH deal here in Western MA. Not ten minutes later I got a PM from one of the guys that works for Sinclair. He said that I would be happy to know that TV40 will be passing HD some time this year. I don't know what that means, so take it with a grain of salt. I replied to the PM asking if they would also be bumping up the power at the same time, and he never responded.

Ralfy or Mfusick, are you able to get WTNH out of Conn. with your antenna setups? I live on the north side of a 70 or 80 foot hill, so Conn. stations are not an option for me OTA.

Originally posted by -KEK-
Ralfy or Mfusick, are you able to get WTNH out of Conn. with your antenna setups? I live on the north side of a 70 or 80 foot hill, so Conn. stations are not an option for me OTA.

Sure sounds like Feeding Hills Rd. to me.

No Kek I cant get WTNH I wish I could. I did notice WVIT channel 30 is beaming in strong at 100 percent. It's channel 35 then it remaps to 30-1 and it is running programing now. I guess I could get WTNH if I aim my ant that way, because I do get WFSB in at 70 percent and from what I hear WTNH has a stronger signal. When the weather gets better I will try, comcast has WFSB on so I dont need it on the ant anymore.

Ralfy,
I noticed that Bob McCormick thinks that WTNH puts a decent signal in WMass and both you and I can't get the signal. What are you using for an antenna in Springfield? I have a very substantial antenna and can't quite lock on WTNHDT up here yet I get a decent but not perfect signal on WTNH analog.

J, Well to tell you the truth I forgot my antenna type. I know it's a small round multidirectional unit. Looks like a flat Satalite dish, sorry I forgot the name brand. I will say it was cheap only 50 bucks but from the day I put it up it locked on to WFSB channel 3. I have friends with huge antennas that cant get a peep out of WFSB. He did say that WTNH is stronger and should be able to be received in Springfield though. I just dont have a rotor to find out, and the antenna is on a 3 story roof.

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
Ralfy,
I noticed that Bob McCormick thinks that WTNH puts a decent signal in WMass and both you and I can't get the signal. What are you using for an antenna in Springfield? I have a very substantial antenna and can't quite lock on WTNHDT up here yet I get a decent but not perfect signal on WTNH analog.

Geez.. :)

Along with my WWLP that I get (off and on), I also get 10-2 WTNH (at times). But I don't see *anything* of any other station, and that's with a very substantial antenna/pre-amp and rotor on the second story.

But, when I get up my 40' mast, things might change, I hope, I hope..;)

Originally posted by -KEK-
I posted a comment in another thread about TV40 vetoeing the WTNH deal here in Western MA. Not ten minutes later I got a PM from one of the guys that works for Sinclair. He said that I would be happy to know that TV40 will be passing HD some time this year. I don't know what that means, so take it with a grain of salt. I replied to the PM asking if they would also be bumping up the power at the same time, and he never responded.

Probably just crap talk..... to keep you quiet.

If they really are planning on adding HDTV soon, what would be the point in keeping it a secret?

Everyone already hates that station fro reluctance to provide HDTV, They should be advertising their plans if their plans are real.

I haven't rescan my channel lineup since last yr, guess I need to do that tonight, for those that can get wtic 61, do you have to move your antenna a few degree? I can get CBS ch3 with 40% signal with my attic mount antenna, so I should be able to get wtic too right?

FYI: I spoke with a good friend who works for Comcast regarding carrying WTNH-DT for ABC HD broadcasts in western Mass. She indicated that in fact she would be the contact person for questions about this issue - and quickly followed that up indicating that putting WTNH-DT on the systems would be something that WGGB / Sinclair would have to approve. Comcast's hands are tied without that approval. So it looks like any questions regarding ABC HD really need to be addressed to WGGB.

If you do write or call them I would suggest not being too harsh. Building these new digital ASTV infrastructures from scratch is a major project - with significant costs and challenges. As you may be aware from even some of the nearby CT stations - sometimes major tower work is necessary, issues with FCC licenses, etc. etc. etc. And even when you think its built - there's lots of tweaking and adjustments that may be necessary after the fact. The best feedback you can give them is of your interest in their programming and desire to receive the network HD feed. My set's ready! (these comments reflect my own views)

Originally posted by RPMcCormick


If you do write or call them I would suggest not being too harsh. Building these new digital ASTV infrastructures from scratch is a major project - with significant costs and challenges. As you may be aware from even some of the nearby CT stations - sometimes major tower work is necessary, issues with FCC licenses, etc. etc. etc. And even when you think its built - there's lots of tweaking and adjustments that may be necessary after the fact. The best feedback you can give them is of your interest in their programming and desire to receive the network HD feed. My set's ready! (these comments reflect my own views)

I agree that being civil is the best way, but I'm wondering if there will be any appreciable response. There is often a lot of undercurrent (better known as scuttlebutt) on various forums that indicate that they have been fighting the HD upgrade all the way, and in fact still think it can be postponed.

I've also read that one of the things that Charlie Ergen of Echostar will be talking about with the FCC when it comes to the upcoming SHVIA talks will be changing the rules when it comes to DMA locations due to some stations dragging their feet, and the right of the consumer to be able to receive HD.

Any projection on when 22 might be heading towards a power/antenna upgrade yet?

Originally posted by Dav_Or
Any projection on when 22 might be heading towards a power/antenna upgrade yet? No, nothing unfortunately to share at this time. The original license, which I think dates back to mid-2001, was for 10 kW ERP. Everything is already in place to accomplish that ... so its just waiting on some protocol, paperwork and possibly some minor adjustments. I'll surely post something here when it happens!

Well I personally sent WGGB many e-mails asking just for a timetable. What did I get, nothing, nada, zip. From what I understand many of us on these forums have sent them e-mails with no response. This was awhile ago, and nothing, not even a lie telling us they are working on it. At least for someone to say it's taking longer then expected would have been nice, but no not even that. For them to not give comcast approval for WTNH to be on is crazy. The way they think WTNH would not even be competition, because according to them no one in the area has HD set's. How long can we be civil and nice to a company that wont even respond to us. Lie if you have to, but don't make us lose out on ABC HD because you don't think anyone has HD sets. MY 2 cents

TV40 sucks....

Worst station ever...

I tell anyone who will listen not to watch it. Hopefully someday they will begin to undertand and change their postition.