Originally posted by RPMcCormick
FYI: I spoke with a good friend who works for Comcast regarding carrying WTNH-DT for ABC HD broadcasts in western Mass. She indicated that in fact she would be the contact person for questions about this issue - and quickly followed that up indicating that putting WTNH-DT on the systems would be something that WGGB / Sinclair would have to approve. Comcast's hands are tied without that approval. So it looks like any questions regarding ABC HD really need to be addressed to WGGB.

If you do write or call them I would suggest not being too harsh. Building these new digital ASTV infrastructures from scratch is a major project - with significant costs and challenges. As you may be aware from even some of the nearby CT stations - sometimes major tower work is necessary, issues with FCC licenses, etc. etc. etc. And even when you think its built - there's lots of tweaking and adjustments that may be necessary after the fact. The best feedback you can give them is of your interest in their programming and desire to receive the network HD feed. My set's ready! (these comments reflect my own views)

Yes,

But we were all very nice last year when they told us basically to go to hell.

Now a year later, and still nothing....

And- They won't even approve another station on cable so we can watch monday night football in HDTV.

I have DirecTV with the Sunday Ticket so I get all the games. I also can recieve Over the air CBS HDTV and NBC HDTV.

But- I can't get ABC:(


And it is TV40's fault!

If they don't want to spend the money, then atleast allow us to watch another HDTV station in the in between time....

They claim that no one has enough HDTV set, so what are they worried about? If we are to believe their views, no one would watch the other station becuase no one has HDTV sets.

Capitalism needs to come into play. If they don't want to spend the money then they need to go out of business or go away- and someone else needs to take the place and do it better.

I don't feel sorry for them. -

I recently posted this as a reply in the CT HDTV AVS Forum thread ... but figured it may be of interest here as well.

Last night (early this morning) I was fooling around with ATSC reception at home ... and discovered that everyone I could receive was transmitting a different time! Of all the stations that I could receive this morning (without a lot of fooling around with the antenna) only WVIT had the correct time. These were taken +/- 00:09 on Tuesday 9 Mar 2004:WWLP-DT 12:07 AM Sun Mar 07
WVIT-DT 12:09 AM Tue Mar 09
WGBY-DT 12:10 AM Sun Mar 10
WTIC-DT 11:43 AM Wed Mar 10 (Normally I can also get WGGB-DT but not last night for some reason.)

These readings were taken by a Samsung ATSC tuner - only off-air, no satellite capabilities. (A satellite box may also receive a time source from D*, etc.)

What are you seeing on your set top boxes?

After thinking about this for a while - I'm wondering if there may be some inherit problem with taking time from an ATSC stream. For example, in the setup of the box I am using I can tell it which US timezone I'm in and whether I honour daylight savings or not. I wonder what happens though with the date & time for those people who are in border regions (like in parts of Indiana and Illinois where some stations cover multiple time zones that are sometimes the same time and other times not).

I have no idea where the time source is in our system, but will find out today and attempt to get it fixed. Hopefully what's actually happening is that all stations are sending out time as something standard, like UTC (fka GMT). That would allow each user to select the time zone information appropriate for their location - assuming that your STB allows it!

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
(Normally I can also get WGGB-DT but not last night for some reason.)



I can get if for about 1 second here and there.

Probably because that station sucks, and they have very, very, very low power.

I have an antenna pointing right at Mt. Tom and get a perfect 100 for PBS which is the same location.

I wish they would boost the power atleast. I here all these weird excuses about power supplies and things....

Weird excuses....

That station sucks.

(I hope they read this:) My criticism is an effort to effect change:)

Some strange things on Comcast INHD1 & 2 the last couple of days. Last night they put NESN on INHD2, but it was a bruins away game so it wasn't in HD. The night before (3/10/04) they put NESN on INHD1, but the Bruins didn't even have a game scheduled. Did anybody else notice this?

I found an interesting article here: http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=1856

I hope this doesn't mean that they are going to start multicasting while showing HD.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I found an interesting article here: snip I hope this doesn't mean that they are going to start multicasting while showing HD. ??? WGBY-DT currently has four subchannels during the daytime hours ... and typically one (but sometimes its been two) in the evening. Many stations are providing more than one subchannel on their ATSC transmissions. WGBY has been doing the multi subchannel thing almost from day one!

The link you quoted talks about how they've integrated a system that will keep the subchannel information on the stream even when they're not transmitting information on those streams. In the local area, Comcast is carrying all four of WGBY-DT's subchannels. Look back in this thread - I think I posted some information about this around the first of March.

I thought that when they were broadcasting HD they were not broadcasting subchannels, and dedicating the whole bandwidth to HD. But I haven't checked the OTA since Comcast added them to their lineup.

Ok, one thing I've been wondering..

Taking Channel 22 as a for instance: they broadcast on 22-3 in SD (4:3) most of the time.

I imagine that it is the case with most "new" digital broadcasts. Wondering how many people are going to squawk about "burn-in" on all of their tvs?

Is there some projected point where they will be broadcasting in HD all the time?

I don't get 22 analog at all, so I watch 22-3, and it's distributed to my other tvs. It sure looks pretty crappy seing a 21" screen reduced to a 17" screen because of the SD broadcast. It also looks pretty small on my Toshiba 50HDX82 also.

Many millions are just not going to buy a new tv just because of digital programming. That's going to mean burn-in on a large majority of those tvs, right?

I don't know if I explained the black around the picture when watching 22-3 in SD, not HD.

What I don't understand is that 22-1 and 22-3 are both digital channels, right? Well when 22 broadcast in SD on 22-1 it always filled the screen. Why doesn't it on 22-3??

Cornfused.

I guess your damned if you do and damned if you don't. The way I see it if you stretch the picture to fill the screen people will complain that it's not OAR. They will say they don't like watching a stretched image, thats more from the "send it the way it's meant to be sent" group. Then you have guy's like you, that don't want a screen with black bars on the side, and want the screen filled. To tell you the truth I myself don't mind the stretched image, I have gotten used to it. Some will say it's unwatchable, like all those guy's complaining about ESPN and the way they stretch the picture. I have a RPTV so I do worry about burn-in, but right now I'm just happy to have the channels, so I wont complain. In the end I don't really care just show the HD when it's supposed to be on. I am not pointing you out as a complainer just using you as an example. Hey RPM I did notice that WWLP has not shown Las Vegas in HD for a couple weeks. I'm a Springfield guy, so I don't want to watch WVIT, so was it just a problem.

Originally posted by ralfy1
Then you have guy's like you, that don't want a screen with black bars on the side, and want the screen filled. To tell you the truth I myself don't mind the stretched image, I have gotten used to it. Some will say it's unwatchable, like all those guy's complaining about ESPN and the way they stretch the picture. I have a RPTV so I do worry about burn-in, but right now I'm just happy to have the channels, so I wont complain.

Right, the 50HDX82 that I have is a rptv and I worry also. It's just not black bars on the sides, but on the top also. The actual picture is in a "picture frame" unless it's in HD. Maybe there's some adjustment I'm missing. I have S-video, component and DVI hooked up on my 811 receiver.

Must be something your not doing, because mine only has bars on the sides of the picture. Having bars on the sides and top and bottom would make the picture look way to small. Like right now Dateline has only bars on the sides. How does yours look, does it still have bars all around the picture?

The Toshiba 50HDX82 like most high definition televisions and settop boxes has a widescreen mode that will scale a 4x3 image into a 16x9 frame. If you prefer the image stretched use widescreen mode. If you are seeing a black frame around the top and bottom in addition to the sides you are probably viewing DTV22-3 on a 4x3 TV? Look for a setting in the settop box called "crop" or "clip". That option will make the image full screen. If your seeing the black picture frame on a 16x9 HDTV than you might be watching the S-Video output from the settop box and not the actual HD signal.

Originally posted by -KEK-
Some strange things on Comcast INHD1 & 2 the last couple of days. Last night they put NESN on INHD2, but it was a bruins away game so it wasn't in HD. The night before (3/10/04) they put NESN on INHD1, but the Bruins didn't even have a game scheduled. Did anybody else notice this?

I'm not sure what Comcast is doing with the INHD channels. If you check their website, what used to be different channel lineups for most major towns in Western MA have now been combined into one channel lineup labeled "Western MA Digital Lineup." Looks like we'll all get the same channels from now on. Here's some changes I've noted:

1. All three of WGBY's (PBS) subchannels are now being carried on Comcast--WGBY World (209), WGBY Kids (217) and WGBY Create (237). These channels are currently active.

2. Comcast was supposed to be scaling down the available number of PPV channels. What used to be 29 PPVs (401-429) got knocked down a while back to 10 (400-402, 423-429). But now it's back up to 34 PPVs (401-434), plus one preview channel (400). These channels are *not* active yet (only the current 10 in that range).

3. Comcast now only has one INHD channel listed (881). Although 882 is still active, it appears that it is just a 24/7 feed of NESN. It is SD most of the time, unless there is a Bruins/Red Sox game which is then in HD. Not sure how long this plans to be active or if they will change it back. This kinda sucks--I liked having INHD1 and INHD2.

Originally posted by Dav_Or
Ok, one thing I've been wondering..

Taking Channel 22 as a for instance: they broadcast on 22-3 in SD (4:3) most of the time.

I imagine that it is the case with most "new" digital broadcasts. Wondering how many people are going to squawk about "burn-in" on all of their tvs?

Is there some projected point where they will be broadcasting in HD all the time?Yea - I wonder about the burn-in issue as well. A number of sets (monitors) and set top boxes have features (if you want to call it that!) to take the 4:3 sized image and stretch/zoom/fill (whatever term they want to use) it such that it fills or fills more of a 16:9 screen.

But I am actually viewing the 22.3 image sometimes on a 4:3 TV set ... which can result in black bars on the tops and bottom (when in HD mode) ... other times, when the programming is really SD, I can change the aspect mode (on the STB) so that it puts out the 4:3 format program so that it exactly fills the 4:3 screen (on a SD format TV). What's the right thing to do? I personally don't know - and I get the feeling the book is out on that one. But surely as time goes on, I think we'll see more of the widescreen format 16:9 type programming - and much/most of that in HD.

Few additional comments to a number of recent postings:

I was watching WGBY-DT last night (Fri 13 Mar 2004) and they only had 57.1 up in HD format. (During the fund drive they had both 57.1 and 57.2.) As another poster noted - they have up to four simultaneous channels ... and Comcast is carrying all of them on the cable system. (More info is also available on the WGBY web site.)

don't know if I explained the black around the picture when watching 22-3 in SD, not HD.

WWLP-DT 22.3 is encoded using a HD encoder. Its set for a 1080i 16:9 format all the time - no matter what the programming is. If the programming is from NBC and in high definition 16:9 format it should fill the screen. In other times - non 16:9 format programming - there's a box that essentially "upconverts" the SD video - and the video image you see should be the 4:3 picture centered in your 16:9 screen - with an equal amount of black on either side of that picture. There should not be any black bars on top/bottom of the image nor any squirrelly lines on the top or bottom of the video.

At one point, when the 22.3 subchannel was put on-line, the upconverted 4:3 SD picture was stretched to fit the 16:9 screen. That made everyone look a lot wider than they should have - and for the most part didn't allow viewers to do much of anything with the image they received. The transmissions were changed to do what's being done today, which seems to be akin to what most people would like. As previously noted, many sets and/or STB allow lots of different functions for stretching an image, filling the screen, etc. In fact, on one Sony XBR set I've viewed, they have a pretty cool algorithm that keeps the subject matter in the center of the screen not very stretched but stretches the outside edges a bit more. The effect there is to not make objects in the center of the screen look fatter than they are in reality.

>> What I don't understand is that 22-1 and 22-3 are both
>> digital channels, right? Well when 22 broadcast in SD on
>> 22-1 it always filled the screen. Why doesn't it on 22-3??

Well - the WWLP-DT (channel 11) is a digital transmission ... where really any number of channels can be encoded, as long as it is within the constraints of the bandwidth of the channel. That magic number is around 19.39 million bits per second. So all of those subchannels .1 .2 and .3 are digital. Each subchannel has a number of independent attributes. These include the aspect ratio (either 4:3 or 16:9), format (like 1080i, 480i, etc.) and bit rate (the higher the bit rate the better the quality). The total of all the subchannel's bit rate can't exceed that ~19.39 mbps.

So ... what happens with the images from these subchannels is really totally dependent on the settings of your ATSC tuner (in the TV or the set top box) ... as well as possibly any monitor settings you may also have.

I can watch WWLP-DT 22.3 on a high quality Sony XBR TV that is 4:3 format ... for the wide screen shows I get black bars on the top and bottom! This is the same as watching a widescreen DVD ... and when I watch 22.3 when it is non-HD programming I can make it fit my normal 4:3 TV screen.

When I watch 22.3 on a 16:9 TV set with widescreen programming ... it fills the screen. But when 22.3 has the regular SD 4:3 format programming on ... the 16:9 aspect ratio set ends up having black bars to the left and right of the picture - to fill up the extra width of the 16:9 format screen. Again ... most tuners/STB/monitors have a variety of modes that may allow you to stretch and otherwise modify that 4:3 video to fill more (or less) of you 16:9 format screen.

HTH!

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Few additional comments to a number of recent postings:


When I watch 22.3 on a 16:9 TV set with widescreen programming ... it fills the screen. But when 22.3 has the regular SD 4:3 format programming on ... the 16:9 aspect ratio set ends up having black bars to the left and right of the picture - to fill up the extra width of the 16:9 format screen. Again ... most tuners/STB/monitors have a variety of modes that may allow you to stretch and otherwise modify that 4:3 video to fill more (or less) of you 16:9 format screen.

HTH!

I messed around with both the tv (Toshiba 50HDX82) and my HD receiver (DISH 811-you have one I think).

I have S-video, component video and DVI cables hooked to the receiver & tv.

The Toshiba (cinema series wide screen) has a few ways to affect the picture. I can watch SD or DVI, with 4 picture sizes in SD and 3 with DVI.

Then I went to the 811. I tried it in 4:3 #1, 4:3 #2, 480p, 780p, and 1080i, and then the option 4:3 or 16:9.

I set it to 1080i, 16:9. I set the Toshiba RPTV to DVI mode and found that the format button (asterick) on the 811 remote only had effectd with DVI enabled. In the other modes, it did nothing.

The SD/HD button on the remote did nothing in any mode.

Anyway, with it set to DVI I can now stretch 22 so it doesn't look bad at all and the whole screen is filled. I also was able to get a proper 4:3 picture without black bars on top and bottom-only on the sides. I had black bars all around before.

I guess it takes a little messing around to find out how things work.

For some reason my 22-3 signal is up to 69-70% the past couple of days, from the 60-62% that is was.

I am still getting ready to put up my 36' Radio Shack Telescoping mast that I've been accumulating parts for. I have most of them now as I got the supplemental rotor thrust bearing in yesterday. Just waiting on more guy wire at this point, and the nerve to get at it.

If anyone is interested in getting one of those telescoping masts which RS doesn't sell anymore, you can call around to "older" RS stores, or get the one that is left at the Liberty ST. store in Springfield.

One more question RPM, I don't know anything about this but maybe you can shed some light on this. I know we talked about this before but no progress has been made. Whats the deal with getting program listing, all the digital channels I get not one has any program listing just Regular schedule. Is it that hard to get done, I would think if the program listing can be put up for analog why not digital. On 22 analog the schedule is always there but never for 22 digital. Whats the difference?

Originally posted by ralfy1
One more question RPM, I don't know anything about this but maybe you can shed some light on this. I know we talked about this before but no progress has been made. Whats the deal with getting program listing, all the digital channels I get not one has any program listing just Regular schedule. Is it that hard to get done, I would think if the program listing can be put up for analog why not digital. On 22 analog the schedule is always there but never for 22 digital. Whats the difference? Viewers that have DirecTV and set top boxes that support the functionality can get a program guide for local channels including the new off-air digital channels. DirecTV gets the information from Tribune Media Services who gets the information from the broadcaster. The local stations need to keep DirecTV abreast of the subchannels they're broadcasting on - and on an on-going basis keep TMS updated with the program schedule. We'll be getting the guide situation for WWLP-DT straightened away shortly - stay tuned.

Fox 61 DT is now on Comcast channel 861.

Originally posted by ralfy1
Fox 61 DT is now on Comcast channel 861.

Thanks for the heads up.....now we need their DVR functionality.

That's probly the only thing keeping me from dropping Directv. I love my Tivo but dont think I will pay $1000 for an HD Tivo. If Comcast give me an DVR that can record HD I'm 100% moving to Comcast. Even though Directv is adding locals they wont be in HD.

Originally posted by ralfy1
That's probly the only thing keeping me from dropping Directv. I love my Tivo but dont think I will pay $1000 for an HD Tivo. If Comcast give me an DVR that can record HD I'm 100% moving to Comcast. Even though Directv is adding locals they wont be in HD. There's an LG box that is a mate to one I've been looking at - and it does HD PVR. You can find out more on it at my posting in the CT forum post 1072 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3532365#post3532365):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3532365#post3532365

I think I've also heard that Charter is or will be offering a PVR box on their systems ... but there's an extra fee per month for it. Of course, the difference will be the LG will receive and record channels in the clear - and the off air broadcasts. The cable company's box will record scrambled content but will most likely not handle off-air, etc.

BTW: that LG box will run you around a kilo-buck if you can find it. I think its also marketed under other brands as well ... you may want to search elsewhere on the AVS forums for more info on that - as its a bit off-topic here.

Just noticed this weekend: some of the PBS programs on WGBY-DT were coming through encoded with Dolby Digital 5.1 ... pretty cool!

I want an HDTV TIVO with dual Directv HDTV tuners and Dual OTA tuners...

So I can record and watch local and Directv at the same time..... with one machine.

Add, 480i-->480p/720p/1080i upscalling with faraduja DCDi proccessing and VGA and Component Video outs along with DVI out.....

Easy to use universal BACKLIT remote....

And we've got a winner............:)

anyone using a LG 3510 for their OTA HD? thinking about picking one up at circuit city soon.

I have not played with it yet. Just came in. Let you know

Couple of updates for viewers of WWLP-DT:

For those of you who have noted that there is
no program guide on some services for 22.2 and 22.3:

We have been assured that the provider of that info
is working on getting those channels built and edited.
Hopefully they should show up in your program guides
in the very near future.

A change in the WWLP-DT sub channels is tentatively
scheduled for 6 Apr 2004 and will result in the
following lineup:

22.1 WWLP / NBC programming HD 16:9 format
22.2 WWLP 22News StormTeam weather radar

Essentially the current 22.1 channel is removed
and 22.3 moves to 22.1.

Depending on the capabilities of your set top box
you may need to do a rescan or manually edit your
channels to take advantage of the above changes.

Viewers who are watching WWLP-DT HD via local
cable systems will be unaffected.

Looks like Sinclair is finally moving toward HD. Hopefully WGGB is one of the "most" Sinclair stations.
http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/2004/03_mar/news/kma7v40g.htm

Just wondering if any of you guys have lost WWLP 22-3. I dont get anything on it right now. I did scan for 22-1 and it comes in with sound but no video. RPM anything going on, thought the switch over would not be till the end of the week. On 22-1 the screen says new home of WWLP HD.

Originally posted by ralfy1
Just wondering if any of you guys have lost WWLP 22-3. I dont get anything on it right now. I did scan for 22-1 and it comes in with sound but no video. RPM anything going on, thought the switch over would not be till the end of the week. On 22-1 the screen says new home of WWLP HD. Just checked it on my home set: all three sub channels are there, OK. Nothing has changed that I'm aware of! The slide on 22.1 was updated a few days ago to let viewers know that's were the HD will be.

RPM, will WWLP have the capability to pass 5.1 audio when NBC starts sending it that way? There is a thread on the main forum here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387385 that says the New York affiliate did a test of 5.1 audio for last night's American Dreams episode.

Originally posted by -KEK-
Will WWLP have the capability to pass 5.1 audio when NBC starts sending it that way? There is a thread on the main forum that says the New York affiliate did a test of 5.1 audio for last night's American Dreams episode. Yes, indeed. We have everything necessary to provide Dolby 5.1 audio when NBC makes it generally available. Will post more when we hear about the availability.

Additionally:

Shortly before noon EDT the following changes have been made to WWLP-DT:

22.1 WWLP-HD 16:9 format
22.2 WWLP-WX StormTeam Doppler Radar

The main channel is currently encoded at 16.0 mbps.

Yes, indeed. We have everything necessary to provide Dolby 5.1 audio when NBC makes it generally available. Will post more when we hear about the availability.

Good news, and thanks for the update.

If your ATSC (digital tuner box) has the ability to display the time ... I'd be interested in what time it displays when tuned to WWLP-DT (off air channel 11 - not cable). It has been noticed that some boxes are displaying the time an hour off ... trying to track this down. Please check your box's setup and ensure that you have the correct time zone selected as well as the choice for using DST.

I am new to the HDTV game. I'm getting an HDTV within 2 weeks and have ordered the new DirectV/HD/Tivo box. I know the local channels on DirectV will become available to us soon on the dish but not in HD. I read on line that some people are picking up HD signls with a regular 75 OHM antenna. I live less than 2 miles from the WWLP transmitter in Feeding Hills and I think about 10 or 11 miles from WGGB (which from reading here I should not expect much). The other signals are all less than 30 miles from me. I don't have the capability to put a huge antenna on my roof nor would my wife like that. Is it worth looking into putting one of those dish antennas on the dish? Or just be happy with my ESPN HD and whatever else I get and move on?

Go get a silver sensor indoor antenna. You should be able to pick up WWLP and WGBY at least, and probably WGGB when they boost the power.

e-mails to Comcast and WGGB have gone unanswered. If (as I gather from this thread) the obstacle is WGGB's refusal to grant permission to Comcast to carry another ABC HD signal until/unless they get their act together, would there be any utility to complaining to ABC and the FCC?

RPMcCormick,

Can you please check your HD switch or timer becasue Tonight Show last 5 minutes are never in HD only 4:3. I know it is your problem because WVIT does not have this problem.

Originally posted by CKNA
Can you please check your HD switch or timer becasue Tonight Show last 5 minutes are never in HD only 4:3. I know it is your problem because WVIT does not have this problem. Thanks for the report. Will check into it. Has it always been this way? I don't usually stay up late enough to watch the whole thing - but I know I have in the past. Do you remember if we go to commercial break just prior to that - and then not come back to full 16:9 format?

any interest in starting a separate thread?

Well the only problem I see with the new thread is people are used to looking at this one. The CT. people did it and now people dont know wich one to post at. So it kinda messes people up. If everyone wants to thats fine with me, but If I want to check what is going on in the area I just check here.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Thanks for the report. Will check into it. Has it always been this way? I don't usually stay up late enough to watch the whole thing - but I know I have in the past. Do you remember if we go to commercial break just prior to that - and then not come back to full 16:9 format?

It has been like this for a while. It now happens every night. You go into last Tonight Show commercial break but never come back from it in HD. It is always 4:3 SD. It almost seems like you have a timer set to switch to SD feed at 12:30 and not at 12:35 when Jay Leno ends.

Originally posted by CKNA
It has been like this for a while. It now happens every night. You go into last Tonight Show commercial break but never come back from it in HD. It is always 4:3 SD. It almost seems like you have a timer set to switch to SD feed at 12:30 and not at 12:35 when Jay Leno ends. No - it is not a timer ... a bit complex to explain ... there's two inputs to the 22.1 sub channel. One is an upconverted version of the standard WWLP feed and the other is the NBC HD feed. A computerized automation system is switching between the two: local commercial breaks come from the standard definition source. Looks like a switch to SD for the commercials but no switch back to the NBC HD feed for the end of the show. Again - thanks for the feedback and will attempt to track this down - the info helps!

Originally posted by aldujaparov
any interest in starting a separate thread? (for Comcast)Personally I'd prefer not: already have to monitor too many things ... and as another poster noted, the split of the CT thread has resulted in two parallel similar topics.

kein problem: just thought it would get the Comcast discussions away from the satellite/antenna discussions

re: Comcast and 4:3 override, tried my free trial PPV, chose "School of Rock - Widescreen", and the picture was in widescreen dimensions, but 4:3 width, i.e had black bars on all sides. w/ 4:3 override set to none (=1080i) I only had 2 options on format, neither acceptable. Set to 480p, which gave me an expand mode, but quality was much worse. Won't bother w/ PPV again, unless they come up w/ HD or at least DVD equivalent

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
No - it is not a timer ... a bit complex to explain ... there's two inputs to the 22.1 sub channel. One is an upconverted version of the standard WWLP feed and the other is the NBC HD feed. A computerized automation system is switching between the two: local commercial breaks come from the standard definition source. Looks like a switch to SD for the commercials but no switch back to the NBC HD feed for the end of the show. Again - thanks for the feedback and will attempt to track this down - the info helps!

I check all this week and still the end of Tonight Show is not in HD so no musical guest is ever in HD.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Again - thanks for the feedback and will attempt to track this down - the info helps!

I've got a problem with my 811 receiver and 22.
In DVI mode, when 22 is in HD I get two "lines" of very light "dashes" accross the screen about 3/4 of the way up. I don't get that on the satellite HD channels, and I don't currently get any other OTA channel to compare. I've only noticed this in the past month or so.

CKNA: still looking into the problems with the last few minutes of the Tonight show. Hope to have more information later today.

Dav_Or: that sounds strange. Does it only appear with NBC shows that are true HD (like Tonight, Vegas, etc.)? Or does it also appear with NBC programming that's in SD? Does it ever occur in local (e.g., non-NBC) originated programming? Do you know if it started when we switched the config back a few weeks ago (I think Tuesday 6 Apr 2004). Also increased the bandwidth a bit on 22.1 a few days after that as well ...

If you've got a digital camera and can take a picture of it I'd be interested in seeing it!

Originally posted by CKNA
I check all this week and still the end of Tonight Show is not in HD so no musical guest is ever in HD. The issue that was causing that problem has been resolved. Thanks for reporting it and sorry it took so long to address.

Originally posted by Dav_Or
I've got a problem with my 811 receiver and 22.
In DVI mode, when 22 is in HD I get two "lines" of very light "dashes" accross the screen about 3/4 of the way up. I don't get that on the satellite HD channels, and I don't currently get any other OTA channel to compare. I've only noticed this in the past month or so.

The problem is 811. It has so many bugs that is not even funny. I got rid of mine. Looks like DVI output is not completely compatible with your TV.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
The issue that was causing that problem has been resolved. Thanks for reporting it and sorry it took so long to address.

Thanks for the update. I will check tonight.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
CKNA: still looking into the problems with the last few minutes of the Tonight show. Hope to have more information later today.

Dav_Or: that sounds strange. Does it only appear with NBC shows that are true HD (like Tonight, Vegas, etc.)? Or does it also appear with NBC programming that's in SD? Does it ever occur in local (e.g., non-NBC) originated programming? Do you know if it started when we switched the config back a few weeks ago (I think Tuesday 6 Apr 2004). Also increased the bandwidth a bit on 22.1 a few days after that as well ...

If you've got a digital camera and can take a picture of it I'd be interested in seeing it!

Well, I did take a picture of it, and it does show up, but I now see that the problem only occurs when in DVI mode.

The problem is not 22, it's here, and in a following post CKNA has the simple answer. Get rid of the 811.

I think I will be doing that if satellite 7S makes it to orbit May 4th, and switch to D*. I've pretty much had it with this 811.

OON, I unplugged the S-video cord from the 811 to see if that would make a difference. I still have DVI, component, and RGB cables connected. There was no picture at all in anything but DVI mode. Something is amiss.

I heard an ad on the radio today for Springfield WB14. I didn't know that we had a WB affiliate in Springfield. Do they have a digital signal? I searched antennaweb.org but they don't even list the analog station.

Originally posted by -KEK-
I heard an ad on the radio today for Springfield WB14. I didn't know that we had a WB affiliate in Springfield. Do they have a digital signal? I searched antennaweb.org but they don't even list the analog station. WB is fed via satellite from WB (no local broadcaster that I'm aware involved) to cable operators ... I think on Charter it may be on channel 14 and on Comcast maybe 16? I know they use a fake callsign of WBQT ...

It's been slow lately, nothing really going on. Any new things going on RPM? Just to let you guys know my opinion on starting new threads. I don't like the idea one bit, CT now has 4 or 5 threads started. I don't want to look up all those threads, it's pointless, if anything happens in the area weather it be Cable or OTA you can find it here. I just don't see how they think it's more helpful to have all those threads, looking at 1 thread is so much easier. I saw you tried to have them keep 1 thread RPM but they did it anyway. Oh well, I'll just keep checking the original CT thread.

Originally posted by ralfy1
It's been slow lately, nothing really going on. Any new things going on RPM? Just to let you guys know my opinion on starting new threads. I don't like the idea one bit, CT now has 4 or 5 threads started. I don't want to look up all those threads, it's pointless, if anything happens in the area weather it be Cable or OTA you can find it here. I just don't see how they think it's more helpful to have all those threads, looking at 1 thread is so much easier. I saw you tried to have them keep 1 thread RPM but they did it anyway. Oh well, I'll just keep checking the original CT thread. Nothing new to report on this end :D

I subscribe to threads I'm interested in / watching - get those email notifications when new messages are posted. I also keep a folder of favourites with URL's to each thread ... as it seems sometimes I'm not notified of new posts so I also check from time to time.

If folks want to split threads I only wish there was a clean way to maybe end an existing thread or redirect to a new one. Oh well ...

Quick question for those lving in western Mass - is it at all possible to get WFSB DT with an indoor antenna? I've read stories of people who have small indoor antennas that get a bunch of stations and then those that have a spaceship on the top their house to get ones. I live in Feeding Hills and will likely get WWLP easily and eventually WGGB if they ever increase their power and give us HD too. But given that WFSB is a VHF station and 25 miles away it might be more difficult. Any suggestions out there?

Originally posted by Vuce
Quick question for those lving in western Mass - is it at all possible to get WFSB DT with an indoor antenna? I've read stories of people who have small indoor antennas that get a bunch of stations and then those that have a spaceship on the top their house to get ones. I live in Feeding Hills and will likely get WWLP easily and eventually WGGB if they ever increase their power and give us HD too. But given that WFSB is a VHF station and 25 miles away it might be more difficult. Any suggestions out there? WFSB-DT is on channel 33 - which is a UHF channel:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=wfsb

Depending on where you are in Feeding Hill ... for an indoor antenna it wouldn't hurt trying.

Originally posted by Vuce
Quick question for those lving in western Mass - is it at all possible to get WFSB DT with an indoor antenna? I've read stories of people who have small indoor antennas that get a bunch of stations and then those that have a spaceship on the top their house to get ones. I live in Feeding Hills and will likely get WWLP easily and eventually WGGB if they ever increase their power and give us HD too. But given that WFSB is a VHF station and 25 miles away it might be more difficult. Any suggestions out there?

Ha! I guess it depends where you live in W. Mass! I've been trying with rotors, amps, and antennas and only have 22 some of the time.

I'm in the middle of another antenna project:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7qz3t/ (click on thumbs)

This will put the antennas 50' up (40' telescoping mast +10' mast) approximately. I have a channel master CM3020 155" boom antenna with a CM 9777 amplifier, a CM4228 8 bay bowtie antenna with a Wingard 4800 amplifier, and turned by a CM 9521 digital rotor with a thrust bearing.

It's all tested on the ground and ready to raise. I'm just waiting for a calm day and maybe some extra hands to help with the guy wires.

If this won't do it, nuttin will, for me anyway.

Dave

Originally posted by Vuce
Quick question for those lving in western Mass - is it at all possible to get WFSB DT with an indoor antenna? I've read stories of people who have small indoor antennas that get a bunch of stations and then those that have a spaceship on the top their house to get ones. I live in Feeding Hills and will likely get WWLP easily and eventually WGGB if they ever increase their power and give us HD too. But given that WFSB is a VHF station and 25 miles away it might be more difficult. Any suggestions out there?

From my location (just west of Mt Tom) with a big UHF antenna (7 ft parabolic) and an average VHF antenna I can get the following:
WWLP dt 100%
WTIC dt 100%
WFSB dt 90-100%
WVIT dt 100%
WUVN dt 40-50%
WGBY dt 100%

I guess in Feeding hills if you don't have Provin mt. to your south you should be OK.

My goals this spring/summer is to get WTXX dt channel 12, WTNH channel 10 and WCTX channel 39. To do this I am going to try to minimize some FM noise (herringbone on analog) which being close to MT Tom will take additional filtering to my preamp. As for channel 39 I am going to try to notch out channel 40 which I think my OTA reciever can't reject to see if this helps. The wierd thing is I can't recieve WGGB dt and I can see the transmitter from my livingroom.
Jim

Greetings all...

Long-time Cable/Satellite/PC aficionado, who currently subscribes to Comcast…

I’ve really enjoyed reading this thread, and was actually surprised that our little DMA has a place on AVS – which is kind of the reason why I finally decided to join.

Anyway, to spark a little conversation (while there seems to be a lull in HD-related matters) – does anyone else think that Ch. 861 (WTIC-HD) isn’t as sharp as it should be? It seems when I change the channel, for the split-second it takes to transfer; the feed becomes crystallized ten-fold.

Originally posted by Doc Brown
Greetings all...Welcome!:D... does anyone else think that Ch. 861 (WTIC-HD) isn’t as sharp as it should be? It seems when I change the channel, for the split-second it takes to transfer; the feed becomes crystallized ten-fold. I don't have access to a Comcast HD setup - but one thing I've always wondered is what bit rate does the local cable providers encode (re-encode) the ATSC off-air signals at? If its a lesser bit rate - or some kind of variable bit rate - that may explain the perception.

Anyone have the ability to receive WFSB-DT off air ... and via a Comcast HD box? That should be a quick, simple A-B comparison!

Doc,
Welcome! WTIC DT broadcasts FOX widescreen which is not HD. I think Fox is going to 720p HD in the fall.
Jim

I get WFSB OTA and on Comcast. If you mean can I tell the difference, well no they both seem the same. If WFSB OTA is pumping out a higher bit rate I can't tell the difference. Oh Doc Fox does look kinda crappyand not so sharp sometimes but others times the 480p stuff they have lookes pretty damn good. Guess it depends on the show you watch. Nascar looks horrible.

I am a HDTV newbie. Just received my HD Tivo and purchased a Silver Sensor. I live in the Springfield, MA area. I am about 2 miles from the CT border and want to try to pick up CT stations. NBC affiliate is 1.9 miles away, ABC is 11.6 miles away, CBS is 21 miles away and Fox is 26 miles away. On my receiver though I only seem to be able to bring in the MA stations, I think based on the zip code I entered. Is there a way to enter 2 zip codes - like one in CT - so my receiver will know to look for stations across the border as well?

Or will my receiver automatically bring those in regardless of the area I'm in not based on the zip code entered?

It doesn't matter what zip code you enter. There should be a signal strength meter on your set top box. Manually enter the channel numbers and move the antenna until you get a strong signal. I doubt that you will be able to get the Conn. stations with an indoor antenna.

KEK - does the digital signal differ from the regular signal? Because I am able to get WFSB and WTIC in Ct with an indoor antenna on a regular TV. But I would not be able to get it with an indoor antenna via the digital signal?

In your example if I wanted WFSB I would enter 33 on my box and see if that came in correct?

Yes, you are correct. You should be trying to get 33 for WFSB-DT. The digital signals are seperate, so getting the analog station doesn't necessarily mean that you can get the digital station. WFSB for example is transmitting very low power at the moment. They do plan on boosting the power, in which case you may be able to get it with an indoor antenna.

OK that's great info KEK - as I said I'm new to HDTV and I know SOOO much more than I did two weeks about this stuff and I still can't believe how much there is to know. I'll keep an eye on this thread to see when/if WFSB boosts their power and if WGGB boosts theirs too (I think they are very low power too or not at all). Otherwise I'll see how reasonable a roof antenna is cost wise and maybe I'll see if I can hire someone to install that. I had WWLP and WGBY coming in great last night.

Just for the porposes of reference I recently tried my Silver Sensor antenna. I live in Feeding Hills and I think eventually my OTA is going to be fine. Provin Mountain is 1.9 miles to my west so WWLP comes in rock solid no problems whatsoever. WTIC 61 from Hartford also comes in great - no problems - watched "24" in digital widescreen last night. WVIT channel 30 comes in great as well. WGBY is fine so PBS won't be a problem. WFSB Channel 3 is very sporadic and in consistent. I can't watch it but it comes in then breaks up then comes in - if and when they boost the power I don't think it's going to be a problem at all. The one that is really ticking me off is WGGB - I am about 11.6 miles away and it doesn't come in!!! From reading this thread I assume they are either not broadcasting unless you live right next to the transmitter you won't be able to pull it in. If they EVER boost power on it I think ABC and CBS will be great reception where I am with this little indoor antenna.

Vuce,
I have the same problem with WGGB with my Hughes E86 box. I just bought a Samsung 360 box this past weekend and it will receive WGGB with the same antenna. They (WGGB) are only transmitting a SD signal and not an HD so you aren't missing much.
Jim

An update to my post yesterday- WFSB all of a sudden is coming in great with my Silver Sensor. So, with that little antenna I get every major network except ABC because of WGGB's lackluster performance. Like so many others I sent them an email last week and all I've heard are crickets from them.

Wow it's been awhile. Just wanted to let everyone know Comcast will be dropping off the HD DVR on Wednesday morning. I don't know if anyone else got on the list or not, but I will try it out and take some pictures of the Guide and other things. Later

Hey RPM,

I really like the Doppler Radar Feed on 22-2. I was wondering if its possible/legal to also broadcast the Radio Band Weather report? I think it would add to the channel.

-Chris

Originally posted by ralfy1
Wow it's been awhile. Just wanted to let everyone know Comcast will be dropping off the HD DVR on Wednesday morning. I don't know if anyone else got on the list or not, but I will try it out and take some pictures of the Guide and other things. Later

How much do you pay for the HD-DVR ?? Month?

How much is comcast HDTV?

Well you must get that basic local package first (7.55) then you must have the Digital pack (19.99) which gives you the HD channels. They will not let you only get digital pack. But you do NOT have to get the Basic cable package which cost almost 50 bucks. So the HD box adds $2 to the standard box price (5.95). The HD DVR service is 6.95 per month on top of box cost. It works and it's very good, they redid the guide just enough so it's not annoying. The recorded HD stuff is awesome just as good as live. The only thing that sucks is all the shows are on summer breaks so nothing really new to watch. If your used to using TIVO like I am, it's nothing close to it's user friendliness. It's allot better once you get the hang of it, just not Tivo, also not $1000. The one major problem is it's not dual tuner, but thats ok for now I'm just happy being able to record HD. The hard drive is only 80gigs so about 8 hours of HD, 30 Digital and 80 for analog channels. The tech said it was the first DVR to go out, and the warehouse guy didn't even know they had them. He also said the dual tuner box will be out in 3 to 4 months. I hope they switch to the Moxi software, the TV guide software is just not good. It does have IEEE firewire to offload to an HD recorder. It's kinda silly if you use Comcast High Speed Internet not to get Comcast Digital cable. If you just get the internet it cost 57.95, but if you have cable it drops to 42.95 almost covering the cost of Digital basic. Any other question just ask.

I figured I'd bring this topic back to the top of the board. ANy recent news on WGGB and if they are going to start transmitting HD programming and at a higher frequency than they do now? Or will they keep on the same lame path they've been on. Kind of sad when I can get WTIC DTV 27 miles from my house with no problem and WGGB doesn't even come in at all less than 10 miles from me.

I havent heard a thing on them. I cant get any kind of signal either. It is lame, but so are they, wonder if they will ever go HD. Even if they do who can pick up that weak signal.

Has anybody heard if and when Comcast will start offering Discovery HD in the area?

Originally posted by adtoolco
I really like the Doppler Radar Feed on 22-2. I was wondering if its possible/legal to also broadcast the Radio Band Weather report? I think it would add to the channel. We're working on some improvements to the content on 22.1 ... I'm not sure if we can rebroadcast NOAA weather. If so - it wouldn't be very difficult to do. I'll find out.

RPMcCormick -

I'm in the Wallingford, CT area. I've always wondered why I received WWLP DT for a while, perhaps two or three months, but since then, nothing, though analog does show a static filled picture. The picture was very good, though it did some pixelation at times. I think it was in your startup months. Any reason on your end for this. Was your initial power stronger, or antenna aimed differently. I am very near WTNH ch 8/10 so I know it could be they did something. Just wondering.

Originally posted by afis
I'm in the Wallingford, CT area. I've always wondered why I received WWLP DT for a while, perhaps two or three months, but since then, nothing, though analog does show a static filled picture. The picture was very good, though it did some pixelation at times. I think it was in your startup months. Any reason on your end for this. Was your initial power stronger, or antenna aimed differently. I am very near WTNH ch 8/10 so I know it could be they did something. Just wondering. There have not been any power level or antenna changes with WWLP-DT in ages as far as I'm aware. I've also forwarded your query to our Chief Engineer to see if he has any ideas as well.

Could you explain further what you mean by though analog does show a static filled picture. Analogue meaning WWLP on channel 22? Or analogue output of your ATSC tuner?

The only other thing I could think of - is whether WTNH-DT which is on channel 10 - which you've mentioned is nearby - is interfering with your ability to receive the weaker, more distant WWLP-DT on channel 11. Note: by design, ATSC is supposed to allow stations on adjacent channels.

Originally posted by afis
I've always wondered why I received WWLP DT for a while, perhaps two or three months, but since then, nothing, though analog does show a static filled picture. The picture was very good, though it did some pixelation at times. I think it was in your startup months.Few more questions for you:

You mention our startup months ... we've been on with the -DT signal for quite some time. Can you be more specific as to months & years?

Although VHF signals are less prone to interference by foliage we're also wondering if you had a better viewing experience when there wasn't any leaves on the trees ...

And lastly - a few months back we made some changes in our encoders. We used to have three sub-channels, now only two. Was it before/after these changes? (Depending on your ATSC tuner you may have to rescan or some other action to get the updated info from our transmissions!)

Anyone else distant from Springfield (our transmitter on Provin Mountain in Feeding Hills MA) finding recent degraded reception?

As noted in one of the CT forums, the FCC has approved WWLP's 2001 filing for WWLP-DT. Like many -DT stations, WWLP is currently operating under an FCC temporary STA at a reduced power level. After some minor engineering and paperwork WWLP-DT will be increasing its power to its final FCC approved level. When I have more specifics I'll post it here and in the CT forum as well. (For those of you who are interested in the technical details that can be found on the FCC's web site.)

Originally posted by RPMcCormick

You mention our startup months ... we've been on with the -DT signal for quite some time. Can you be more specific as to months & years?


I was afraid you'd ask for more specifics re date. Much of my brain has turned into mush after several years wandering across AVS, most recently grappling with the science of acoustics in the home theatre building forum.

I think it was Feb 2003. I am certainly not speaking of any recent changes for I simply have not gotten your signal since that original time. Not a trees issue. I just idly wondered whether my original reception coincided with your startup with digital and, if so, was it possible new transmitters sometimes use more power than authorized until, after some trial and error, they are set back to authorized, preset levels?

Thanks for keeping everyone here so informed of WWLP operations and work (unlike that station in Hartford!!)

For those of you who are looking for ABC HD programming: WWLP's sister station WTNH in New Haven effective today has increased its ATSC power. The FCC granted WTNH-DT's request for an increase in power to 20.5 kW ERP on 24 Feb 2004.

If you have been unable to receive WTNH-DT, or have been able to receive it with pixelation, drop-outs or marginal reception, you may want to give another look and see if this increase has provided any benefit. I'd be glad to forward along any signal reports and observations you may have.

I have a 72 signal up here with no dropouts on WTNH DT. Before the increase I could only get a 15 signal with no lock. I am a bit cautious since analog WTNH is also coming in better than average tonight. I will keep you informed Bob from time to time about the signal level. If this signal holds I could care less if Sinclair ever goes HD! Also I am working on notching out CH 40 to attempt to receive WCTX DT. Does WCTX pass UPN's HD signal?

Damn this sucks, I still get nothing from WTNH. I was hoping never to have to lay eyes on WGGB 40 ever again. Maybe I just need to move my Ant. Don't really want to go on the roof but I might have to. Thanks for the info RPM.

This is for RPMcormick -

Do you have any details on WWLP's plans for the olympics.
Apparently NBC is going to be providing a boatload of HDTV feeds to
the local digital stations.

Is WWLP going to carry these feeds?

thanks

-Dennis
east longmeadow, ma

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
I have a 72 signal up here with no dropouts on WTNH DT. ... Also I am working on notching out CH 40 to attempt to receive WCTX DT. Does WCTX pass UPN's HD signal? Thanks for the feedback. As I understand it UPN HD programming is broadcast on WCTX-DT (I can't receive it to verify - but have sent off an email to confirm.)

WCTX does several shows in HD including Enterprise. John

Originally posted by db999md
Do you have any details on WWLP's plans for the olympics. Apparently NBC is going to be providing a boatload of HDTV feeds to the local digital stations. Is WWLP going to carry these feeds? Yes: the NBC HD Athens 2004 Olympics coverage will be carried by WWLP-DT on 22.1. Although the full schedule I don't think has been published, as I understand it, the HD feed will be completely separate from the others.

NBC Universal has a special web site dedicated to the Athens 2004 Olympics:

http://www.nbcolympics.com

Its called the OZone and is personalized for each affiliate as well. (If you enter zip code 01101 you'll be sure to get WWLP's version.)

The full schedule will be posted sometime in July. Here's an excerpt from the TV listings part of that site on NBC HD:

24 hours a day
For the first time by a U.S. broadcaster at a Summer Olympics, NBC will provide high definition coverage. NBC's separate, unique HDTV coverage on NBC's digital affiliates, presented by Sony Electronics Inc., will provide HDTV coverage on delay of six sports from the only main Olympic venues provided in high definition by the Olympic host broadcaster. Those sports include swimming, diving, gymnastics, track and field, medal rounds of basketball and the men's soccer gold medal final. The HDTV coverage will total 399 hours and is a completely different production from the standard definition broadcast on the network. NBC has 124 HDTV affiliates with the potential to cover 86 percent of the country.

More as it becomes available ...

Just a quick question RPM, is the color off on channel WWLP DT or is it just on my end. The color looks shifted.

Is the color off on channel WWLP DT or is it just on my end. The color looks shifted. Not aware of any issue - I can check. What show(s) / times are you watching? There is a difference in the colour space between some of the HD standards and the NTSC standards.

Originally posted by ralfy1
Wow it's been awhile. Just wanted to let everyone know Comcast will be dropping off the HD DVR on Wednesday morning. I don't know if anyone else got on the list or not, but I will try it out and take some pictures of the Guide and other things. Later

ralfy1

Were you ever able to get those pictures of the guide etc...would love to see them posted.

I think it was Will and Grace the colors seemed to shifted to the side and not on what they were supposed to be on. Like a glass was on a table, it was blue but the blue color was over to the side. Kinda wierd to explain, but it looks fine now. Thanks for the reply. Wow CraigD sorry I didnt think anyone wanted to see them, I will shoot the pictures right now. Sorry again for making you wait so long.

I think it was Will and Grace the colors seemed to shifted to the side and not on what they were supposed to be on. Like a glass was on a table, it was blue but the blue color was over to the side. Kinda wierd to explain, but it looks fine now. Gads - that sounds strange! If it happens again - take careful not as to whether it is in HD or not ... and then see what happens when we go to a local commerical break or non-HD programming. NBC HD is really fed directly into our transport stream; 4:3 format programming is upconverted from the NTSC side of the house. Having that kind of info (+ date/time) will greatly assist where a problem may be if its on our end! 'nite

Thanks, I will remember things better next time and all the info needed. Now to figure out how to post pictures.

Ok here are the pictures if the files are too big let me know.

Pic2

Pic3

Cant figure out how to get all the pictures in one post sorry.
Pic4

Pic5

Pic6

Pic7

Originally posted by ralfy1
Ok here are the pictures if the files are too big let me know.

ralfy1

Thanks for the quick responce. Is the menu always dark or is that user changeable? Are the recordings as fluid as say a Tivo? I got on the "list" for one of these and I can't wait. I am
not willing (nor the wife) to shell out $1G for the HD Tivo from DirecTv. The 8hours recording time
and single tuner is limiting, but I put in request for two to replace the two 6200's that i currently
have which would give me 16 hours total space and would dull the sting of just one tuner.
Thanks for your input.

ralfy1: thanks for taking the time to upload all the pics!

CraigD: I've yet to get my hands on one but I've seen and talked to folks that have the LG set top boxes - there's a model (LST-3410A) that has a PVR and will work on cable (QAM based) cable systems (unscrambled signals).

http://www.lge.com
Click: Video
Click: Digital Set Top Box

There's manuals on-line at the LG site. LG may also be building these same or similar boxes for Samsung, Zenith, etc.

I couldn't help noticing from the screenshot that WTIC-DT was in Comcast's Springfield, MA. system. Why do they get it on the Springfield system, and we don't have it in Hartford????? Fer Pete Sake, it's a freaking Hartford station, and we don't have it! It comes in fine off my DTC-100, but nothing on cable! Comcast must think we're the poor relations in Hartford!

WTNH DT signal update. The first night was such a tease. Although my signal level has increased on average from the power increase I only have a usable signal about 1/2 of the time depending on the atmosphere. My signal strength average is about 40 over the last few days. Bob, Is this the final power level for WTNH-DT? If it is I could buy a channel 10 Yagi which would give me about 3 dB over what I have now which would improve the % of usable viewing time. The other choice is to wait for WGGB.

Thanks for the WTNH-DT update. That's actually a good haul up to your place. And yes - looks like they're running their final assigned FCC power. Of course, who knows what happens in a couple of years when the NTSC systems become obsolete (read: shut off). I've heard nothing further on WGGB ...

CraigD yes you can change the menu color, I'll take some pics of the different colors. The recording is smooth maybe not TIVO smooth but smooth enough. The one thing I wish they would put in is a progress line, you just cant tell how far into the program you are. Oh one other thing Cgorra that was WWLP not WTIC so we don't have it either over here. I will take more pics later. An other questions just let me know.

JVanderwalker,
A change in antenna type will only help at most a little, sometimes a preamp can help depending on cable run and receiver. More height is almost always way better, which might be easier (because it is smaller) with an antenna cut for channel 10 or just a VHF high band antnna. John

Ctdish,
I am currently running a Winegard VHF antenna which is only about 7 ft in length. I am also running a decent preamp which I am not sure if it is helping or not. The reason I say this is if I look at analog ch 8 I see alot of speckled noise which makes me think that my actual noise floor is higher than normal electronic noise floor of the preamp. If I assume the noise source is off axis of the signal a more directional antenna with 3 dB more gain will make a big difference. The power increase by WTNH-DT has helped alot . I think they doubled their power which is only a 3dB increase or improvement so my thinking is that another 3dB can make the signal usable most of the time.
Jim

I have had luck with something like the Y 10-7-13 as seen here http://www.starkelectronic.com/acantena.htm#Y10 I still say higher is better. John

John,
Thanks for the link. I agree the higher the better. Being higher also would probably reduce the interference that I am getting. I am about 30 ft above ground level and I am at the limit of what I want to go for height. I have a 7 ft UHF parabolic along with my small VHF antenna on one mast so the wind load is really high and to go higher would take alot.
Jim

Sorry guys I've been so busy I havent had time to take any more pictures. I got married a couple weeks ago, so it's been crazy. Dont know if you guys noticed but Discovery HD is now on channel 839 on Comcast.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
We're working on some improvements to the content on 22.1 ... I'm not sure if we can rebroadcast NOAA weather. If so - it wouldn't be very difficult to do. I'll find out.

RPM,

Its been ahwile since I checked for any replies. Anything new on adding more info on 22.2? NOAA, maybe? Thanks again. I love that radar!

-Chris-

Originally posted by adtoolco
Its been ahwile since I checked for any replies. Anything new on adding more info on 22.2? NOAA, maybe? Thanks again. I love that radar!No - sorry, nothing new at this time to report. I think it may be a while as we're working on a number of other major internal projects ... and the Olympics are coming up with special NBC HD coverage on WWLP-DT. Stay tuned!

Geesh, I'm frustrated...WGBY-DT used to come in until about 2 weeks ago, and they were the only PBS-DT station I could get OTA, since CPTV doesn't have DT in Hartford yet, and now I can't get even a blip on my DTC-100. I have a good Wade-Delhi antenna and a rotator, but now nothing! I love Soundstage, and WGBY-DT broadcasts it in DD 5.1, which CPTV-DYT on the cable doesn't do, and now I can't get it at all? Does anyone think that WGBY-DT will ever increase their power? I don't dare another try a preamplifier because I am in RF overload hell here in West Hartford, and amps that I have tried just seem to wipe ALL of the DT stations right off the map!

Originally posted by cgorra
Geesh, I'm frustrated...WGBY-DT used to come in until about 2 weeks ago, and they were the only PBS-DT station I could get OTA, since CPTV doesn't have DT in Hartford yet, and now I can't get even a blip on my DTC-100.I'm not aware of anything - and unfortunately I have not been watching much TV lately - too busy with work! :(

In looking at the FCC web site for info on WGBY: WGBY (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=72096)

It shows that WGBY-DT is running 50 kW ERP - and just about omni-directional. There are no filings listed that would indicate that they are going to raise power - in the end, all stations above channel 51 will need to move elsewhere as the FCC will be reclaiming those channels (like they did with 70 to 83).

Can you receive WGBY analogue on 57? That's 1.48 MW ERP into an omni antenna.

Something may have happened on their end ... or alternatively something may be interfering with your reception at your location. (Trouble is that to figure that out you really need a spectrum analyzer hooked to your antenna ...)

Wouldn't hurt - give them a call or drop them an email. Main number is: 413-781-2801. They also publish their Employee List on their web site ... look there for engineering contact info.

BTW: here's a link to WGBY's ATSC page:

http://wgby.org/digital/index.html

WGBY does come in at my house on channel 57 with only a small amount of snow: not perfect, but watchable. WGBY-DT DID come in, with occaisional pixelization, but I haven't been able to see it in the last few weeks. BTW, WWLP-DT comes in just fine at my house, with a strong 70-76 signal on my RCA DTC-100, and looks pretty good. Since you also handle master control for WTNH at WWLP, what has WTNH done to make their picture look so amazingly good on SD? Their picture on local broadcasts on SD looks so good you'd almost think that they were broadcasing in HD!

If you drop a line to WGBY will be interesting to hear what they have to say. (Maybe they dropped power or something?!) especially since you're still able to receive something on channel 57 (albeit it is a lot stronger). The only other thing I can think of is a possible change to the encoded stream that your RCA DTC-100 doesn't like (i.e., you may be receiving it but the box may not be decoding it).

As for your WTNH comments:Since you also handle master control for WTNH at WWLP, what has WTNH done to make their picture look so amazingly good on SD? Their picture on local broadcasts on SD looks so good you'd almost think that they were broadcasing in HD! Are you speaking of WTNH analogue or digital? There's been some upgrades recently on the digital side - but not aware of anything on the analogue side. In any event, I've forwarded along your comments as I'm sure the folks at WTNH will be both interested and appreciative.

I just contacted the Chief Eingineer at WGBY, and he told me that they have been running at 1/2 power for the last couple of weeks because of a power supply problem in their DT transmitter. The Chief Engineer, Mr. Miller, was actually glad to hear from me, and told me that they were going to try to reinstall the power supply this afternoon. He told me that he would e-mail me when the job was done, and I offered him a reception report. Nice man, and very responsive!

Tnx for posting the info on WGBY-DT ... glad to hear they'll be coming back up soon. Another colleague here indicated that he hasn't been able to receive it as well.

Originally posted by ralfy1
CraigD yes you can change the menu color, I'll take some pics of the different colors. The recording is smooth maybe not TIVO smooth but smooth enough. The one thing I wish they would put in is a progress line, you just cant tell how far into the program you are. Oh one other thing Cgorra that was WWLP not WTIC so we don't have it either over here. I will take more pics later. An other questions just let me know.

Ralfy - How long after you got on "the list" did it take for you to receive the unit? I just got on the list this week. Is it the Moto 6208?

I called on Tuesday and the had me set up on a Wednesday. The tech said it was the first unit they installed in the area. The list on the web site is garbage, you must call in and get set up over the phone. I wish I still had the lady I spoke withs number, she was very nice and helpful. I think they are still testing things out before they release them to everyone, thats why you have to call. If you look they really haven't advertised anything about the units and the website is just alittle walk through. Any other questions just ask.

I have directv and am looking for a cheap solution to try to increase what I can get in HD.

Currently I have one of those Terk HD antenna that attaches to the back of the dish. I know everone hates them, but for me it actually works fairly well. I get HD NBC (22), ABC (30), WB(20). What I'm having trouble getting is CBS, FOX and even PBS 57. CBS shows about a 20 on the meter, FOX is a bit higher, and 57 bounces around from 50-70.

Is there a cheap amp I can try? I think it'd have to be internal and put in line just before the receiver because of the way the Terk antenna merges the DBS/TV internally, which I then split just before entering the receiver.

I really don't want to install another antenna because this one is hardly even noticable.

Any suggestions? Oh, my locations is Agawam.

Reception for you in Agawam of PBS (WGBY-DT) with a non directional antenna will be difficult since you are along the mountain range and multipath is what is causing your signal to bounce around. CBS will be increasing their power soon so you will be in luck. I would suggest a small directional antenna with a rotor or maybe a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.



Does anyone know how Directv is uplinking the locals? I can receive the locals off air perfectly yet the signal looks better of the satellite. Maybe they are getting a direct feed from the stations.
Jim

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
Reception for you in Agawam of PBS (WGBY-DT) with a non directional antenna will be difficult since you are along the mountain range and multipath is what is causing your signal to bounce around.I agree that there may be a multi-path issue. The western border of Feeding Hills (Agawam) is the town line which runs down the ridge that Provin Mountain is part of. This basically goes north up to East Mountain in Westfield (Comcast head end) and then turns up to Mount Tom. Most of Feeding Hills should be fairly high and direct line-of-sight to Mt. Tom. The graphic posted with this reply is an elevation profile from Feeding Hills center to WGBY's tower on Mt. Tom.Does anyone know how Directv is uplinking the locals? I can receive the locals off air perfectly yet the signal looks better of the satellite. Maybe they are getting a direct feed from the stations.DirecTV leases colo space at WWLP in Chicopee. WWLP is a direct feed. Channels 40, 57 and 67 are off-air.

Pretty hard to get a good graphic in 640x640 ... but attached please find the topo for the previously posted elevation profile. The red line shows the path from Feeding Hills center to Mt. Tom - and is where the elevation profile was built (albeit on a more detailed scale of the topo maps). This was done with an old version of the TOPO! software which was fairly reasonably priced. I believe National Geographic may now own or distribute it.

Bob,
Thanks for the reply. What is colo space? Looking further WWLP is the only station of the locals that looks better on Directv than off air the others are about the same. This is refering to the analog signal. The WWLP digital signal when broadcasting in SD looks about the same as the satellite feed. For me this will be a moot point once the free trial period is over since I usually watch off air digital for the locals.
Jim

Colo is short for colocation. Its a term more often used in the telco or Internet world, where one company would locate equipment in another company's facilities. To draw an analogy - its similar to how WAQY has its transmitter and antenna atop Provin Mountain, on WWLP's tower and in WWLP's facilities. As for the DirectTV signals: I would assume that they are all being sent up to DirecTV with the same encoding rates, etc. I would guess the only difference would be the lack of off-air receiver in the case of WWLP. To be honest - I really didn't notice any difference the one opportunity I've had to see the locals off a DirecTV receiver ... but the setup wasn't that great either.

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
Reception for you in Agawam of PBS (WGBY-DT) with a non directional antenna will be difficult since you are along the mountain range and multipath is what is causing your signal to bounce around. CBS will be increasing their power soon so you will be in luck. I would suggest a small directional antenna with a rotor or maybe a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.

Jim

What's the word on FOX? Are they at full power? I'm hoping that whenever FSB does crank up the power that problem willbe fixed, but that's a pretty big whenever. Is TIC the same? Are they not at peak power also?

I've tried the silver sensor, the results were surprisingly horrid considering the number of people who love them. And I channel surf way too much to have something I need to aim by hand.

Maybe I'll try picking up a cheap amp just for grins.

I believe Fox (WTIC-DT) is at full power. I know I get a booming signal up here. If I were you I just bite the bullet and put a antenna on the roof.
Jim

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
I believe Fox (WTIC-DT) is at full power. I know I get a booming signal up here. If I were you I just bite the bullet and put a antenna on the roof.
Jim

Bummer, if I'm reading the FCC site correctly they are only rated at 470Kw ERP. That seems pretty low considering their analog signal is 5000, and wfsb when they get up and running at full power is supposed to be 1000.

WWLP-DT Dolby 5.1
22.1 is now broadcasting in Dolby Digital 5.1 format. Upconverted content should be decoded in Dolby 2/0 format. HD programming audio encoding will vary based on the metadata that NBC sends - formats will include LtRt, 2/0, 3/0 and 3/2L (which is 5.1). Feedback and observations welcome.

Has anybody noticed audio sync issues on WFSB-DT lately? It has only been the last couple of days or so. I get WFSB-DT from Comcast.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
WWLP-DT Dolby 5.1
22.1 is now broadcasting in Dolby Digital 5.1 format. Upconverted content should be decoded in Dolby 2/0 format. HD programming audio encoding will vary based on the metadata that NBC sends - formats will include LtRt, 2/0, 3/0 and 3/2L (which is 5.1). Feedback and observations welcome.

Great news! I will be out of town but have my HD Tivo set to record Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics and other content this weekend. We'll see if it records the 5.1.

Guess Opening Ceremoniys is not the best thing to listen for the 5.1, mostly just weird noises and annoucers. Is the 5.1 coming in only OTA, because I dont get it on Comcast. From what I heard the center seemed very loud, like the center was set way to high, could be something on my end but everything else I watch sounds ok. WWLP has been very fast to get things going and you (RPM) have helped us all with quick responses, thanks again. Oh you might know more about this than us, have you heard anything about WGGB going HD. MNF is almost here and I can see us missing a whole season again. Oh what does NBC broadcast in 5.1?

Originally posted by ralfy1
Guess Opening Ceremoniys is not the best thing to listen for the 5.1, mostly just weird noises and annoucers. Is the 5.1 coming in only OTA, because I dont get it on Comcast. From what I heard the center seemed very loud, like the center was set way to high, could be something on my end but everything else I watch sounds ok. WWLP has been very fast to get things going and you (RPM) have helped us all with quick responses, thanks again. Oh you might know more about this than us, have you heard anything about WGGB going HD. MNF is almost here and I can see us missing a whole season again. Oh what does NBC broadcast in 5.1? Bunch-o questions! :)

From what I understand, WWLP's ATSC bit stream is being passed through the Comcast system without any changes (e.g., re-encoding). I would guess that if you have a box that is provided by Comcast and has a toslink (optical) or SPDIF (coaxial) digital output - you should be able to feed that into a suitable tuner/amp that has a Dolby 5.1 decoder and get the full experience. You may want to check other AVS forums for discussions on the cable STB ... maybe there are different boxes available and/or maybe you need a newer version? (Unfortunately neither I nor the station is in a Comcast area.)

The levels of the 3/2L (Lt/Rt/Center Ls/Rs+LFE) are completely controlled by the origination. We receive them as discrete channels from NBC, put them into a Dolby 569 encoder (used for both Dolby 5.1 broadcast as well as DVD mastering) and pass that stream directly out our ATSC transmitter. NBC did send us some test signals over the last few days - and I verified that each channel level was correct (at that time). Since the opening ceremony is repeated a number of times today I'll give it another listen.

You're welcome for the info/responses ... forums like these help greatly. Turns broadcasting, which is really a one way thing, more like into unicasting with feedback. Good to know what people are experiencing on the receiving end - especially with the wide variety of equipment and ways to set things up these days!

Sorry - I have not heard anything regarding the local ABC affiliate's HD plans. But if I do hear something I'll be sure to share that info.

I've been wondering the same thing regarding what NBC shows are in Dolby 5.1. The only one I can say for sure is American Dreams - and that is because when WNBC-DT did their Dolby 5.1 pilot test in NYC it was with that show. There were a number of posts in an AVS forum thread - including the guys who actually mixed the audio for the show. From what I understand in that thread - the entire season was done in Dolby 5.1. When the Olympics are over I'll send an email off to some of the guys at NBC Universal (they're all in Athens right now) and see if they can offer anything more. (Be nice that in addition to the HD indicator in the program guides they also put a 5.1 logo - like in previous days with stereo or even color programs!)

FWIW, WVIT-DT on Connecticut Comcast cable isn't being sent town inDolby Digital 5.1. They are sending down a DD 5.1 signal OTA, as is WWLP-DT, but Comcast doesn't seem to pass it. I gave up watching local HDTV on Comcast, anyway, because the picture and sound are so much berrter OTA. Hartford Comcast still doesn't have WTIC-DT, WCTX-DT or WTXX-DT on the cable yet, either.

I'm not sure how to quote a posting in a different AVS forum ... so I'll paste this one here for those of you that may be interested. It was posted by Jim Hilson of Dolby Labs in the 2004 Athens Summer Olympics on NBC in HDTV - Opening Ceremonies! thread.

Greetings from Athens. Interesting to read all of your posts. Obvious that some didn't read the press releases. For those of you who didn't figure it out, NBC is doing two completely diferent feeds as is Athens Olympic Broadcasting, the "host" broadcaster. Most of the HD venues are completely separate host feeds with separete trucks, cameras and audio mixes. A few are the same production in HD which is downconverted. You won't see any of the 16:9 SD venues on NBC that are being upconverted for other countries like NHK Japan.
Because they are separate productions, the announcers have to be different to follow the program cuts.
NBC also decided to air the HD feed 1 hour delayed to the SD feed for the East Coast and delayed that 3 hours for the West Coast feed for the first airing so that it was in prime time for the whole country. They used the highlights show to fill the 1 hour delay time. After the first pass, the Ceremonies program began repeating and the West Coast feed joined the East Coast feed. This will continue to loop until production of the next 8 hour block airs. There are usually 3 eight hour blocks of programming in a day. One original and two repeats. They have to hit the 8 hours exactly to make the time work out for the entire 24 hour block. Because the only programming available was the Opening Ceremonies, adding a few minutes of filler wasn't an easy task.
For what it is worth, 2006 should be based around HD production, not SD. This means that you will get more complete coverage and full HD production as you have on the SD side this year.
Sony is footing a lot of the bill over here by supplying equipment. There is proof that showing that commercial to viewers will produce sales because friends and those watching in stores will see the ad and buy a Sony product to get this at home.
D* appears to have come online as it should have.
By the way, there are two audio mixes leaving here. Your local station has to choose which one to use based on their equipment. If they can handle 5.1, they will use that program. If all the have is stereo, the will choose the Dolby Pro Logic II 2 channel mix. If all your station is delivering is 2.0, turn on your surround decoder (prefferably with PLII) and enjoy.
Happy viewing and pass the salsa.
Jim Hilson
Applications Engineer
Dolby Laboratories
Vendor Support to NBC Olympics Athens

Yeah last night I was about to ask you why I was seeing the opening ceremony's over and over again. Comcast cant be passing the 5.1 my receiver wont kick in to 5.1. OTA is a different story.

Originally posted by ralfy1
Yeah last night I was about to ask you why I was seeing the opening ceremony's over and over again. Comcast cant be passing the 5.1 my receiver wont kick in to 5.1. OTA is a different story. That's interesting. I'll see if I can find out why. What do you have for a cable STB? It does have some kind of digital output (toslink or spdif)?

As for the NBC HD schedule: you can get a better view (sic) of what's on by taking a look at the NBC OZone site - here's how I link to it:

NBC OZone (http://www.nbcolympics.com/wwlp/index.html?aff=wwlp-et)

If you're really interested there are a couple of AVS forum threads in the HDTV programming section where folks are discussing the NBC HD content in greater detail. The first day was basically filled with a repeat of the opening. As I understand it the rest of the Olympics will have blocks of programming that will also repeat albeit more programming and repeated less often. What is nice is that its 100% HD :)

I have Comcast in Westfield and they are passing the 5.1 audio on WWLP-DT. I have a motorola 6200 box.

RPM-

Thanks for all of your insights. I have Comcast (Longmeadow), have been receiving DD 5.1 for the Olympics coverage, but tonight it's gone. I checked the other channels, and did get "blue light" on a couple, so I think my receiver's working. Comcast, WWLP, or NBC?

Thanks.

Originally posted by aldujaparov
Thanks for all of your insights. I have Comcast (Longmeadow), have been receiving DD 5.1 for the Olympics coverage, but tonight it's gone. I checked the other channels, and did get "blue light" on a couple, so I think my receiver's working. Comcast, WWLP, or NBC?Shouldn't be Comcast: they are passing WWLP-DT signals through extractly as we transmit them. I'll see if there's anything going on - appreciate the report. It may have been a switch to stereo 2/0 mode for a local ad insert that didn't switch back to the Dolby 5.1 from NBC.

Stupid question, but has anybody heard anything about WGGB going HD? It would be nice if they started broadcasting HD before next Thursday's Pats and Colts game.

Originally posted by -KEK-
Stupid question, but has anybody heard anything about WGGB going HD? It would be nice if they started broadcasting HD before next Thursday's Pats and Colts game.

I don't know, but I wish they would start tonight with the Pats & Jacksonville game!

Just wondered if Springfield's Comcast is distributing these cards and whether or not anyone wanted to comment on the card and or performance of their HDTV with the SC vs the STB.

Also... has anyone seen a JVC HD52Z795 or HD52Z575 locally? I stopped at BB (Holyoke) and they still don't have one. People are raving about this set and I'd like to compare it to the Mitzi 52525.

Mike

Hows it going guys. RPM I was just wondering Channel 30 out of CT had the Nascar Race in wide screen HD. The race looked horrible, was it really in HD. WWLP did not have it in Wide screen so thats what made me wonder if it was in HD at all. Maybe it just slipped by the station that it was being shown in HD. Oh one other thing that new show Hawaii, 30 had 5.1 but 22 did not have it. This is coming in over the air so this time it's not the cable box. If you can answer any of these, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by ralfy1
Hows it going guys. RPM I was just wondering Channel 30 out of CT had the Nascar Race in wide screen HD. The race looked horrible, was it really in HD. WWLP did not have it in Wide screen so thats what made me wonder if it was in HD at all. Maybe it just slipped by the station that it was being shown in HD. Oh one other thing that new show Hawaii, 30 had 5.1 but 22 did not have it. This is coming in over the air so this time it's not the cable box. If you can answer any of these, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

The Nascar race was in widescreen but not HD. Widescreen does not always mean HD even though it mostly is. WWLP lack of audio is their problem, as they have something wrong with their switch so instead of passing 5.1 it only passes 2.0 thus there is no dialog and rear channels on 5.1 shows.

They need to fix this asap.

Greetings:

Re: NASCAR race ... only thing I can assume at this time is that the programming info we had did not indicate the program was in HD (or widescreen) so what was transmitted on WWLP-DT was the upconverted NTSC program feed.

As for the Dolby 5.1 issue: we are working on some switching issues. It is likely the encoder was left in the 2/0 mode (typical of upconverted content). Was the audio badly out of sync with that situation?

RPMcCormick,

Caught a couple minutes of Hawaii last night and there was no dialogue (sound) when using
the DirecTivo HD and the Sony HD200 OTA. Only had them running into HD tv's did not check
for throughput to 5.1 stereo systems.

RPMcCormick,
Do you have any info on when channel 11 will be going to full power? John

Originally posted by ctdish
Do you have any info on when channel 11 will be going to full power?No, sorry - not at this time. But it should be in the next couple of months. Some minor antenna work (adjustments) to be performed by third party contractors. Everything else is in place, so once the tower work is complete the transmitter output will be increased to the FCC assigned maximum ERP. Will post more when a firm date is known.

Nice who changed the title of this thread. I've been wondering if I could could do that this whole time. The thread name was stupid even though I started it, just in a rush when I did it. Thanks to who ever did it. RPM just what CraigD said no audio coming out of the center or rear. Channel 30 was spot on with their sync, when you guys get things straight, it sounds awesome. Thanks for all the answers, again.

RPMcCormick,
Thanks for the reply. Almost missed it with the thread title change. I am 61 miles as the crow flies from the tower on the coast of CT, in Mystic. I can usually get a non zero signal strengh reading from channel 11 but only rarely can I get video. Ch 22 is about at the threshold of holding sync. So I am curious to see if the power incresase will lock in channel 11. John

bump

I am seeing some lip sync issues with WWLPDT on the network feed of LAX. WVITDT looked fine.
Jim

Originally posted by JVanderwalker
I am seeing some lip sync issues with WWLPDT on the network feed of LAX. WVITDT looked fine.Tnx feedback. Have you noticed the problem on any of the other shows? Only NBC Dolby 5.1 audio? Or all NBC? How about non-NBC network?

Has anybody with Comcast noticed if they have been playing the NFL game of the week in HD? If so what channel is it on?

I thought I saw the Game of the Week on INHD2 in the guide last night. I didn't tune to it though, so it may have been my imagination...

Yeah it was on INHD2. Colts v Panthers, it was from nfl films so it had that movie smooth look to it.

After watching the ALCS on FOX HD at my son's house, I got a nice taste of HD this past week even though it was only on a 30" Sanyo. Getting ever so much closer to pulling the trigger and buying a set. Ralfy and my son are both pushing me to go the 62" Mits route (vs the 52"). I'm going to watch the Jets-Pats game Sunday at my son's house on the Sanyo set since I haven't yet seen Springfield's CBS HD NFL broadcasts.

BTW, I stopped in Comcast's office in Springfield yesterday and asked about the cablecard. The girl behind the counter knew they had them, but wasn't sure of what features they have. What she did say is that they don't charge for the card, just for the "installation". That's kind of bogus because you're basically inserting a sort of PCMCIA or Smart Card into a slot. So you can't walk in as a Comcast customer and simply ask for a card to "install" it yourself. So while they don't charge a monthly fee for the card, you probably have to order the digital hd service to actually get/use it.

One of the other counter ladies noted that not only can't you order PPVs with your remote, but for some reason there is no guide when you use the card... only get that with the STB. Don't really know if these ladies knew the gospel truth, but the 2nd lady did say a 2nd generation card is in the works that will be interactive. No time frame whatsoever. Nobody in this thread seems to be using the cablecard (yet).

I know Ralfy was watching the games since I talked to him on the phone, and we thought it was weird the other night when Fox lost the HD signal and they were broadcasting some sort of technical feedback stuff for several minutes. BTW Ralph... I'm taking a load of flak for the Yankees loss, and I know you are too. :(

Capt Mike

Originally posted by IronHorse
After watching the ALCS on FOX HD at my son's house, I got a nice taste of HD this past week even though it was only on a 30" Sanyo. Getting ever so much closer to pulling the trigger and buying a set. Ralfy and my son are both pushing me to go the 62" Mits route (vs the 52"). I'm going to watch the Jets-Pats game Sunday at my son's house on the Sanyo set since I haven't yet seen Springfield's CBS HD NFL broadcasts.

BTW, I stopped in Comcast's office in Springfield yesterday and asked about the cablecard. The girl behind the counter knew they had them, but wasn't sure of what features they have. What she did say is that they don't charge for the card, just for the "installation". That's kind of bogus because you're basically inserting a sort of PCMCIA or Smart Card into a slot. So you can't walk in as a Comcast customer and simply ask for a card to "install" it yourself. So while they don't charge a monthly fee for the card, you probably have to order the digital hd service to actually get/use it.

One of the other counter ladies noted that not only can't you order PPVs with your remote, but for some reason there is no guide when you use the card... only get that with the STB. Don't really know if these ladies knew the gospel truth, but the 2nd lady did say a 2nd generation card is in the works that will be interactive. No time frame whatsoever. Nobody in this thread seems to be using the cablecard (yet).

I know Ralfy was watching the games since I talked to him on the phone, and we thought it was weird the other night when Fox lost the HD signal and they were broadcasting some sort of technical feedback stuff for several minutes. BTW Ralph... I'm taking a load of flak for the Yankees loss, and I know you are too. :(

Capt Mike

Sounds like the CSR's at the cable company actually had the correct
information. Cable cards are not yet interactive and do not support
the guide.

Originally posted by IronHorse
After watching the ALCS on FOX HD at my son's house, I got a nice taste of HD this past week even though it was only on a 30" Sanyo. Getting ever so much closer to pulling the trigger and buying a set. Ralfy and my son are both pushing me to go the 62" Mits route (vs the 52"). I'm going to watch the Jets-Pats game Sunday at my son's house on the Sanyo set since I haven't yet seen Springfield's CBS HD NFL broadcasts.I actually watched some of the games in HD on a regular TV set ... one of my sets at home is a 4:3 Sony XBR that has a higher (than normal NTSC) horizontal line count. Great quality: get the 16:9 picture just like if you're watching a wide screen DVD.

I've pretty much decided to get a new 16:9 HD set ... and going to drop the $$$ on a plasma - probably a 42-inch unit. Big is cool ... but I find that with the bigger units you really need to sit further back from the screen ... is your viewing room big enough for a 62-inch set?! ;)

Although I don' t live in a community with Comcast cable - it is my understanding that the CBS HD content (I think Comcast channel 803) is WFSB-DT. The Springfield CBS station is WSHM-LP channel 67 (the LP suffix indicates a low power translator license). They don't have a digital (ATSC) allocation (for WSHM in Springfield).BTW, I stopped in Comcast's office in Springfield yesterday and asked about the cablecard. The girl behind the counter knew they had them, but wasn't sure of what features they have. What she did say is that they don't charge for the card, just for the "installation". That's kind of bogus because you're basically inserting a sort of PCMCIA or Smart Card into a slot. So you can't walk in as a Comcast customer and simply ask for a card to "install" it yourself. So while they don't charge a monthly fee for the card, you probably have to order the digital hd service to actually get/use it.

One of the other counter ladies noted that not only can't you order PPVs with your remote, but for some reason there is no guide when you use the card... only get that with the STB. Don't really know if these ladies knew the gospel truth, but the 2nd lady did say a 2nd generation card is in the works that will be interactive. No time frame whatsoever. Nobody in this thread seems to be using the cablecard (yet).Boy - that's interesting. Much of the newer stuff out there will take those cable cards ... and I think the Panny plasma I was looking at supported one. (And I got the impression you could get the card from Panasonic as well.)

Very bizarre if the card doesn't handle the programme guide ... I wonder if that's a (local?!) Comcast issue - or something that's industry wide? (Time to search other AVS forums I guess ...)

Personally - if the card didn't do the guide ... I wouldn't bother with it. I'd use an external box instead.I know Ralfy was watching the games since I talked to him on the phone, and we thought it was weird the other night when Fox lost the HD signal and they were broadcasting some sort of technical feedback stuff for several minutes.See posts in the CT HD forum. Guess they've had some problems with reception of the FOX national HD feed - but they've got folks out working on it.BTW Ralph... I'm taking a load of flak for the Yankees loss, and I know you are too. :(I hate going too far off topic - and I'm not a big sports fan ... but have to give those Red Sox some credit. Some pretty good games - I'd like to see them win the World Series! :D

RPM...

Yeah, I'm tipping my hat to the RS. The better team won. Whether or not they can truly break the "curse" and actually win the WS is another issue.

I'm just a novice when it comes to DLP technology, so I was wondering if a picture from HD cable on a 62" set will be "coarser" than the exact same signal on a 52" set?

My family room is 14'4" X 21' deep, so I have plenty of room for either set. I'm thinking Mits, but today I saw that the Tantus 56" will be in the stores on November 1st, so maybe I'll wait to see what kind of pricing I can get on the Sammy.

Capt Mike

Originally posted by IronHorse
I'm just a novice when it comes to DLP technology, so I was wondering if a picture from HD cable on a 62" set will be "coarser" than the exact same signal on a 52" set?

My family room is 14'4" X 21' deep, so I have plenty of room for either set. I'm thinking Mits, but today I saw that the Tantus 56" will be in the stores on November 1st, so maybe I'll wait to see what kind of pricing I can get on the Sammy.Well, I'm getting old and need glasses now to see everything - both near and far ... so I may not be the best of judges! ...

Here's how I usually look (sic) at it: I'm currently sitting behind a pair of 17-inch LCD monitors that are running 1280 x 1024 pixel resolution. Some people have 19-inch monitors but run the exact same (pixel) resolution. Since the 19-inch monitor has a lot more screen real estate - but no more information ... that would mean the pixels would be slightly larger. The same is often true when comparing monitors.

And its like newspaper print: if you look at the colour comic pages, from normal reading distance you really don't see the dots. But if you look closely at the print (use a magnifying glass, etc.) you can see the dots (pixels) that make up the picture.

Sounds like you've got plenty of room ... so the best thing would be to actually view (and compare) the units. I'd recommend doing so from the distance that would be typical for your installation - and - at the right viewing level (sitting).

Also be sure you're looking at the highest quality source on all the monitors being compared; a lot of local venues seem to just daisy chain these and not feed them with high quality YPbPr inputs, etc.

If you find the larger screen to be grainer, less sharp, etc. you may want to consider the smaller screen ... its really all very subjective.

HTH!

Originally posted by IronHorse
RPM...

Yeah, I'm tipping my hat to the RS. The better team won. Whether or not they can truly break the "curse" and actually win the WS is another issue.

I'm just a novice when it comes to DLP technology, so I was wondering if a picture from HD cable on a 62" set will be "coarser" than the exact same signal on a 52" set?

My family room is 14'4" X 21' deep, so I have plenty of room for either set. I'm thinking Mits, but today I saw that the Tantus 56" will be in the stores on November 1st, so maybe I'll wait to see what kind of pricing I can get on the Sammy.

Capt Mike
Ironhorse,
I am projecting a 10 ft diagonal in about the same size room as yours. I am using a used CRT projector which can be had at a reasonable price. These units take effort to set up to converge the colors but once you are done the picture can't be beat even by the new bulb projectors. These CRT projectors are a perfect match for HDTV.
Jim

Jim...

I had a Kloss projection system years ago and the convergence problem drove me nuts. I finally gave it away for free... but by then I had probably gotten 10 years out of it.

I'm too old and too lazy these days (ask Ralfy) and I want things that just require the minimum fuss. Plus, the unit will be in my family room and my wife couldn't deal with a ceiling mount.

I think we're going to take a run up to Tweeter tomorrow to see if they have any new Mits 725 units. It's pretty convenient that you can walk across the lot to CC, and then hit BB inside the mall... and before getting back on the highway, you can cruise into Bernies.

BTW, I was in the (new) Bernies on Boston Road a couple of days ago and they 've dropped the price almost $500 on the Mits 52525 so it's very competitive with the Samy 5063. But to complicate things, the 56" Tantus from Samy will be out Nov 1st, and LG apparently will be shipping the DU-52SZ61D (HD2+, CableCard, ATSC Tuner, etc.) in November as well. I thought someone in this forum said it was already being shipped in Canada, but perhaps I was blurry that night.

CaptMike

WWLP-DT upgrade

Next week (October 25 through 29) WWLP-DT will be performing modifications to its antenna system. These adjustments are required for the forthcoming power increase.

The tower crews should be on-site on Monday and be working through the week. It is expected that WWLP-DT will be off-air for part of this period as the crews make adjustments.

By week's end WWLP-DT should be back on the air with 10 kW ERP, which is the maximum power as authorised by the FCC.

During this outage there will also be adjustments made to the digital encoders. The PID's (internal numbers
that are used to identify the content of a sub channel) will be incremented by one to comply with some forthcoming changes. After the upgrade you may need to rescan (or delete and re-add) WWLP-DT channel 11 (22.1 and 22.2).

These changes will not affect WWLP analogue channel 22.

RPM...

You seem like a fairly knowledgeable fellow so don't shudder when I ask this question.

Is there any difference in the quality of; (a) HD picture, and (b) HD signal when you are comparing the three possible sources; (1) DTV/DISH Satellite, (2) Digital Cable (like Comcast), and, (3) OTA signals such as those broadcast by WGBY 57 or WWLP 40? This is assuming you have the identical or one HD reference TV to watch the signal on.

Reason I ask is that my son and I went up to Tweeter this afternoon to see what HD Football looked like on a DLP. Turns out that Tweeter uses DTV for their signal feed for the DLP sets, and apparently cable for the Plasma stuff. I was there to specifically look at the X275 Mits, and I was OK with the FOX picture (think it's 720), but long shots seem to get dithered into some oil-painting type smudges when you look at the grass on the field. OTH, when I've seen the Mits 52525 showing WGBY stuff at say Bernie's... the picture looked almost razor-sharp.

On top of this I asked the salesguy if the sets were calibrated and he said not really, but a Mits rep had been in last week to set up the 52725 I was looking at. But he immediately apologized and said that half the people that come in want to play with the controls, so he basically said they could not keep up with them. Having seen the Mits 525s at several different stores, I know the picture can be tweaked to something better than what I was looking at in Tweeter, but I'm probably sticking with Comcast so I was curious as to whether signal strength is a factor with cable.

BTW, for those who care... Mitsubishi must be on a very agressive kick right now. The Mits 52725 is basically priced _VERY_ close to the Samy 5063, and for Tweeter... that's almost uncanny. One bad thing was that Tweeter's 5-year warranty ($399.00) does _NOT_ cover bulbs. That's unlike Bernie's warranty which does cover bulbs.

Capt Mike

Originally posted by IronHorse
(snip)Is there any difference in the quality of; (a) HD picture, and (b) HD signal when you are comparing the three possible sources; (1) DTV/DISH Satellite, (2) Digital Cable (like Comcast), and, (3) OTA signals such as those broadcast by WGBY 57 or WWLP 40? This is assuming you have the identical or one HD reference TV to watch the signal on.(snip)Oops!

WWLP = 22News - NTSC 22 - ATSC 11
WGGB = ABC40 - NTSC 40 - ATSC 55

No - real good question. Unfortunately I don't think there's a simple, standard or even a good answer. And I'm probably not really qualified to give one ... but I'll try.

On the receiving end - one of the problems I see in a lot of retail setups: monitors are being fed with something other than DVI or YPbPr inputs. This is often done to have a single source and then daisy chain multiple monitors together. If you want to compare, IMO, you have to compare with the best possible quality on the input and nothing less. And beyond that is the issue you mention: monitors out for public display may have been adjusted by consumers, have a lot of hours on them, not in the best of lighting conditions, have poor viewing angles, etc.

As for distribution systems - that's also pretty complex and not easy to compare. But one of the most import aspects is the data rate. Typically the higher the data rate the better the picture may be. As you may be aware most of the encoding schemes work on a basis of sending a full screen (100% of the pixels) followed by information to just update the pixels that have changed ... sometime later followed by another full screen and then the changes and so on. The more full screens you have the less pixelation - but the more bandwidth you consume.

Off-air broadcasters can transmit a maximum of 19.39 mbps (million bits per second). Some of that is consumed for overhead ... the rest for whatever programming you put on the stream. WWLP-DT has two channels: the WWLP/NBC programming on 22.1 at 16.5 mbps and the Doppler weather radar on 22.2 at 1.5 mbps.

WWLP-DT uses 1080i as do many other stations; others use 720p. There's a lot of discussion regarding which system is better - I'll leave that for some of the other AVS forums! (Subjectively I really don't see the difference.)

Even dedicating 16.5 mbps (or whatever) to a transmission stream doesn't mean better quality. You need to consider the source material as well! Re-encoding poor quality or low bit rate material to a higher bit rate doesn't put information back that was previously lost (or not there to begin with)!

There is no right bit rate; it really depends on the program content. Scenes with very fast and varied content (F1 or NASCAR races come to mind) will require a lot more bandwidth (to ensure no pixelation) than a still shot of something with little or no movement.

Although some systems transmit with a constant bit rate (CBR) others are encoded with variable bit rate (VBR). That allows the overall bandwidth to fluctuate between multiple program streams and at the same time stay within a confined overall maximum bandwidth. (Does this make sense?)

In general, off-air ATSC stations that are transmitting 16:9 format HD material with high bit rates will probably give you the best quality (given high quality source material) - at least today.

In the Springfield MA DMA (market) Comcast carries WWLP-DT (as well as other ATSC stations) as they are transmitted. This means that you should get the same quality signal as a Comcast subscriber as you would with an off-air setup.

Rumour has it that Echostar (DISH network) had some of the NBC HD Olympic feed at a higher bit rate than what ATSC stations can transmit (like 20 mpbs?) ... if that was the case, DISH subscribers may have actually had a better viewing experience. But that was a special case ...

Although its pretty easy to find out the encoding scheme and data rates for ATSC transmissions - getting that info for satellite and cable programming is a lot more difficult. Hence if you're trying to compare the numbers its pretty difficult to do.

A friend of mine has a pretty decent setup (large screen Sony XBR) ... and at one point had DirecTV HD, Comcast and ATSC off-air. IMO the DirecTV was pretty disappointing ... although subjective (and in the end, isn't that what counts?) the ATSC off-air (and now off-air on cable) was the best (especially the PBS demo loops) followed by some of the cable HD content followed by DirecTV.

Of course - if you live in an area where the cable company doesn't have the local ATSC channels ... you're down to just off-air or satellite. DirecTV has announced a large plan to deploy more satellites and get HD locals on their system in the future. That only makes sense since eventually they'll have to do that as broadcasters move away from NTSC.

Well ... rambled a bit ... hope that helps!

Actually, it wasn't rambling... and I think you'll find others complimenting you on the explanation. Just enough techno and plain speak for the idiots like me to kind of understand. :)

I understand the dual monitor setup. I run a 21" Sony G500 alongside a Envisions 17" from one Matrox G400 Millennium on one of my workstations and a 20" Hitachi alongside a 17" Nanao fed from a couple of ATI cards on the other (I'm a semi-retired designer). I run different resolutions on different monitors, only because I like to see my work at different sizes. I have to consolidate to one system soon... maybe the 21" & 20"!

I think I'm going full circle with the size of the set I will buy. I started out looking at the Samys, first the HLN437W 43" a year ago, then the 50", then the 52" Mits 525, then the 62" Mits, and maybe I'm back to the 52" 52725 is what I finally buy. The 52 is way bigger than my current 35" Toshiba and while I have a 21 X 14 family room, the viewing layout has to work with the windows, the fireplace, the two doorways, the existing furniture scheme, and my wife's general approval! :) No doubt I could use the 62" but it does pose some minor placement issues with regard to furniture layout and how you'd view it. I could probably live with it, but I'm not sure the wife would be 100% thrilled.

Comcast is my provider here in Longmeadow, so I have to hope that the signal I'm getting is reasonably strong. Thanks again for the great comeback!

EDIT: Just wondered if anyone here in the Western Mass area has; (a) used a cablecard, and (b), tweaked their set with one of the two DVD programs.

EDIT2: Again wondering if anyone here in Western Mass is using a Mits X2X25 DLP with the built-in tuner and straight (non-digital) cable? This question may need another sub-thread!

Capt Mike

Well... here's some new material to consider. I just joined the HD generation, received my Mits 62725 a couple of days ago, and generally speaking... WOW! Awesome picture. So many bells and whistles I'll have to get a master's in electronics to learn everything about this set. Generally speaking we're thrilled with the picture. But of course... into each life some rain must fall.

OK, I'm running without a STB or CableCard... feed is direct from basement splitter (only one) to wall outlet with RG6 HD cable, then from wall outlet to set with low loss RCA HD Digital Shielded cable (pretty much the same as Monster). PBS seems to be having a major problem with the digital/HD signal as I'm getting pixelization like you'd see with a DTV setup in a heavy rainstorm. I believe there are three PBS channels and the first one is the worst, then they get progressively better, but the 3rd isn't that great. NBC digital and HD is awesome, and CBS digital and HD is great too... except once in a while I see a thin, horizontal trace of pixelization. This could happen once in a an hour, so its not continuous like the PBS stuff.

In the Mits xx725 thread, Noah Body had a bunch of suggestions, and since I first connected using a RG59 cable, folks had suggested a quick change to a RG6 or even a "digital" rated cable. It actually helped a little, but did not eliminate the problem. I haven't tried it yet, but tonight I will try to replace the Comcast splitter (1Ghz) with a aftermarket one (2.3Ghz) that might help some more. The splitter is a 1 to 4 unit, and I will cap the unused leads (they'll get wired down the road).

In Longmeadow, we have underground utilities and cable, and the run from my front yard box has probably been in the ground for 10+ years. I also think it might've been "skinned" by a lawnmower once, but even though I asked the company to replace the cable several times, they never came out and did it. My dealer suggested that I should have Comcast come out and check the signal strength because he suspects a weak signal. He suggested that Comcast has a responsibility to deliver a clean signal to the house, and they can either bump the signal to around 10dB at the street box, or even add a amplifier to ensure that I'm getting proper signal strength in the house. I should note, the outside cable runs to the house outside where they have a 1 to 2 splitter where one line goes upstairs and the 2nd line goes into the basement to the next splitter where it splits to the cable modem, and the TV. So the cable company actually "daisy-chained" the signal which I'v heard is a no-no.

So my question of the hour is whether anyone here has experienced a similar "phenomena" with Digital-HD channels when not using a STB or cablecard? My son's Sanyo has a built in tuner, but he's on the other side of town and he gets a nice clean signal in all those digital-HD channels that are on his minimalist package.

Thanks in advance for any/all advice.

Capt Mike

Edit-1: Just a quick update... put a new cable connector end on the outside line and BAM! beautiful signal on both HD and SD material considering I have that outside splitter in front of the digital splitter inside. Mike

WWLP-DT update

The antenna work is running longer than expected - a combination of the availability of the tower crews and days lost due to rain and high winds. If things go well the final work will occur over the next couple of days. During this period you may find WWLP-DT off-air.

The encoder changes mentioned in a previous post will not occur during this time but instead will be accomplished at a future date later in the month.

Thanks for your patience and feedback!

Re: IronHorse's 11-05-04 13:35 posting (not quoted - see full post above):

Regarding cables and such: back before coax was generally available to consumers there wasn't any marketing names for it. You just had different types, like RG-58, RG-59, RG-6, RG-213 and lots of other names.

The most important factor with any cable is how much signal is lost after it travels through the cable. This is usually measured in dB per 100 feet (and of course, a dB per metric measurement as well). These measurements are also taken at different frequencies: a cable will have more loss at 800 MHz than it will at 300 MHz (the loss increases with frequency).

A couple of other things that affect cable and signal quality is the quality of the connectors (and how they're put on) and the shielding. Most high-end cables will have a high percentage of shielding; 100% is best - and is often accomplished with a foil on the dielectric (inner insulating material) and one or more shielded braids on top of that.

Your goal: get as much signal as you can from the antenna or signal source, down the coax and to your tuner/receiver. (Well, as much as you can but not to the point of overloading the tuner/receiver.) Better antenna = more signal. Lower loss coax & shorter runs = more signal. Lots of connectors & splitters = LESS signal. Water in your connectors / shorted connectors = horrible signals. Cables not connected to anything / open splitter ports = possible source of interference (both ingress and egress).

As for the splitters: off-air television used to go up to channel 83, which is almost 900 MHz in frequency. Today it stops at 69 - which is 800 MHz. (Each channel assignment, either NTSC or ATSC, is 6 MHz wide). I'm not sure what cable plants are using these days - but I'd guess that the latest systems are upwards of 1,000 MHz (= 1.0 GHz). So a 2.3 GHz splitter isn't necessarily going to be better than a 1.0 GHz splitter ... based on the assumption that off air (for sure) and cable plant (most likely) frequencies are under 1.0 GHz.

The key would be how much of the signal is lost when going through a splitter. Again - this is usually measured in dB (decibels). -3 dB means half of the power comes out, -10 dB means that you only get 1/10 of the signal out that you put in. Note: sometimes these values may be stamped on the splitter - but without the minus sign. Minus means loss, plus means gain - a splitter is always lossy. Also note: the decibel scale is logarithmic.

You mentioned I'm getting pixelization like you'd see with a DTV setup in a heavy rainstorm. I assume the DTV there means DirecTV - and you're describing a satellite rain fade. Indeed, terrestrial ATSC transmissions and digital cable behave similarly to the satellite ones ... so if you've got a weak or variable signal problems with multipath and/or interference you will observe problems like what you've described.

There may be a couple of reasons why one of the PBS sub channels is worse than others (assuming via cable). Each sub channel may be in a different place (frequency wise) on the cable system. If that is the case - you may be having a problem with the PBS sub channel on a certain place on the cable plant. The other reason may be due to the primary channel (that usually carries the HD content) usually has a much higher bandwidth ... and errors in that stream may be more evident. (WGBY?)

Of course - if you're observing problems with ATSC transmissions on a cable plant ... those problem may not necessarily be between you and the cable company ... but could also be between the cable company and broadcaster ... especially if those signals are being received off-air (by the cable company). If the issues only happen to one channel on a cable system and no others - I'd call them and ask.

An underground cable that was installed 10+ years ago is likely to be not up to today's standards. At my residence (different company than what serves Longmeadow) they replaced everything they could get their hands on when we upgraded to digital cable. Only one small (~30 foot) piece of coax embedded in a wall remained from the previous wiring. I concur with the recommendation that if you're not getting the quality you'd expect is to have the cable company do a truck roll. They have equipment that can be placed at the end of a (coax) feed whereby they can technically "see" what the signal "looks" like. (Fun with words ...)

Indeed - the splitter arrangement you describe is not optimal - especially if the outputs all have the same amount of loss. (I've seen some splitters that have an IN, an out with less loss, and one or more ports that are more lossy - typically used for drops.) In a number of cases I've seen - when you subscribe to digital cable with the higher frequency requirements, the cable company will send out an installer who will not only upgrade your coax (drop and in-house cabling) but also the splitter. And unused taps should probably have terminators on them as well.

Your solution may be as simple as having the cable company come out. If you can't get them to come out on a service call - see what their available rates and packages are ... maybe they have one that provides for upgrade of your cabling, provides a box, etc. Most cable operators run frequent promotions, etc.

IMO, the bottom line is that since most of what we're working with today is standards base ... a built-in tuner, set top box (STB) or CableCard should all pretty much work the same - assuming the quality of the tuner's hardware and software implementation is up to standards!

HTH

RPM...

Here's a quick schematic of what I have right now. My inside cables are new RG6 cables and of course the outside ones are similar but older. Since I crimped a new connector on the outside of the house, everything seems to have improved. I have a fairly heavy-duty ratchet-style crimper with a built-in die for RG59 and RG6, and I used the connectors that have a silicon (?) gel in-between the center and outer tube. Supposedly, super heavy duty... but not quite the exact same as Comcast uses.

Weird side effect of the change of splitter and cable end... my picture(s) on all TVs improved, but my cable modem crapped out. Using a Toshiba 1100 series and I can't get the cable light to stay on. Funnier yet is my son has the idenctical modem and also lives in Longmeadow. He took my modem over to his house and connected the cable/power/pc and all three lights went on steady. At my house the power and pc are steady and the cable LED is blinking slowly. The manual says that it means the modem has detected a signal and is trying to sync or something. I may have to buy a new modem?

IronHorse

Originally posted by IronHorse
Here's a quick schematic of what I have right now.Wow - good diagram! If you can get someone from the cable company out they can put a meter on each one of those drops and see what kind of signal you are getting. My gut feeling is that I'd minimize the number of splitters if possible - even if it requires pulling new cable. As for the side effect of the cable modem not working ... strange. Did you try moving it to a different port on the splitter or connecting it to someplace else? I doubt you have to get a new modem - unless they get zapped by lightning, etc. there's not much in them that can go wrong. Good luck!

RPM...

Yup... I'd agree that the ideal setup would eliminate the outer/inner splitter and just use one big splitter inside... away from the weather and moisture. This is what I think would be where I'd want to be on the splitter if I re-do it. To make it easier on replacing the underground wire though, I might include the grounding block on the outside because you shouldn't have a -dB loss with a simple connection... right? Then you can also get somewhat redundant and ground the splitter to a water pipe inside. BTW... using VISIO for diagrams.

IronHorse

Originally posted by IronHorse
I'd agree that the ideal setup would eliminate the outer/inner splitter and just use one big splitter inside... away from the weather and moisture. This is what I think would be where I'd want to be on the splitter if I re-do it. To make it easier on replacing the underground wire though, I might include the grounding block on the outside because you shouldn't have a -dB loss with a simple connection... right? Then you can also get somewhat redundant and ground the splitter to a water pipe inside.Good diagrams! I believe the electrical code requires the lightning protection at the entry point. I remember a lengthy discussion on this years ago when I was working on one of the municipal cable licenses. (At that time we had audited a number of subscriber drops and found poor or non-existent safety grounds.) Unfortunately - especially at extremely high frequencies - connectors and devices in your transmission line do result in losses. You just offset them by using quality cable, keeping runs short and minimizing the number of barrels, splitters, etc.

Bob...

I had Comcast come out Thursday and the tech said that my underground cable was shot, so he ran a temporary above-the-ground one that will be just fine until they get back out to do the dig-safe deal and re-lay the cable.
Apparently the cable had moisture init and some of the insulation was rotted out.

He also put a new ground block/strap on one of my larger outside electrical pipes, and then re-configured the feed to the 1/4 3GHz splitter, ran the upstairs TV inside off that splitter, and got my cable modem working again.

Everything is working fine right now except I have some minor home network issues with LinkSys that I haven't ironed out.

Tomorrow. :)

cool

So I guess ABC-HD here in Springfield is going to be a no-no? Apparently (so Ralphy told me) they will broadcast digital, but not HD. That really sucks and while I understand the economics, when your local competitors are all going HD (including PBS), you can't put your head in the sand. If I were in charge of marketing there, I'd be screaming that I'm fighting with one arm tied behind my back. Market share will eventually suffer.

Iron Horse

FYI,

If you live up on a hill and/or have a two-story house, you may be able to pull in WTNH-DT (VHF Channel 10, channel ID number 8.1) ABC in hi-def from New Haven.

A friend of mine has a house up on a hill in Belchertown and with an amplified antenna he can watch Monday Night Football in HD.

What sort of antenna would I need? Internal or external mount? Could I put it in my attic? I have an unused DTV dish still mounted on my roof in case I ever decide to go back to DTV... but are there antennas that clip onto the dish that would get OTA HD?

I can pick up TV3 with rabbit ears upstairs, but I don't have a clue about OTA HD. What kind of wiring would it require?

Iron Horse

I was getting ABC channel 8.1 in East Longmeadow without a problem for a couple of years with a roof top Radio Shack antenna with rotor and amplifier, and DirecTV. It was flat, but there were no hills to the south.

I recently moved to Longmeadow, and Comcast, but am considering going with an attic mounted antenna w/amp and the DirecTV tuner setup specifically for MNF. I figured I wouldn't need the rotor, as it would be fixed to get Channel 8.

I wrote channel 40 several times - no response. It appears Sinclair doesn't want to hear it...Anyone know if there are even any plans for them to do HD? Ever?

Mike...

Apparently HD is not in Channel 40's near future. They will be going digital to meet the FCC requirements, but they apparently don't have to offer HD in parallel with a digital signal. What is ironic is that they stopped Comcast from offering CT's ABC HD signal as an alternative because _they_ and not WTIC (?) are the _local_ ABC affiliate.

So it looks like a dedicated channel 8 antenna is in our future.

Iron Horse

He used an amplified Terk antenna that clips on to his DirectTV dish.

I don't know the specific model number, but the amp is powered by the DirectTV equipment.

Originally posted by cbagger01
FYI,

If you live up on a hill and/or have a two-story house, you may be able to pull in WTNH-DT (VHF Channel 10, channel ID number 8.1) ABC in hi-def from New Haven.

You can also try for WCVB TV5-DTV20 out of Boston. With interference from channel 10 in Providence I'll never receive WTNH but I do receive WCVB here in Goshen.

IronHorse, what town do you live in? Your elevation and the terrain between the tv tower and your house will dictate the type of antenna you'll need. With the majority of stations broadcasting with hamster power your still almost better off buying the highest gain antenna you can find. The dish mounted antenna are not much better than a coat hanger, also avoid Terk. Most of their equipment is crap and the stuff that isn't is just rebadged equipment from someone else (winegard, etc.) that they put a 40% markup onto that you can buy from the original manufacturer for a lot less $$$.

Jason...

I'm in Longmeadow. But honestly, I'm not that interested in putting up an outside antenna unless it was really small. Maybe a little bigger one in the attic, but even then... I can't see dumping a hundred bucks on an antenna when I have cable... and maybe even I could put that money to re-upping with DTV. They offered me 6 months free if I re-signed.

Iron Horse

I have heard all of the bad press about the Terk antennas.

Personally, I use a Zenith/Antiference Silver Sensor indoor UHF antenna and can receive Channel 3.1 (frequency channel 33), 22.1 (frequency 11 - I use rabbit ears for this one), 30.1 (frequency channel 35), 61.1 (frequency channel 31) and 57.1 (frequency channel 58).

However, regardless of the bad press for Terk, he can get in WTNH-DT with his Terk amplified DTV dish add-on antenna and I cannot get it with my non-amplified rabbit ears even though I am 6 miles closer to the tower.

Being up on a hill with a clear Southern view is a very good thing if you like Monday Night Football in HD.

RPMcCormick,

Awhile back you invited feedback as to when viewers noticed audio out-of-sync with the video. For at least the past three weeks, during TV22's local news, syndicated programming, and network shows, I've witnessed this problem.

It is especially noticeable when a person begins to speak after a pause. The person's mouth will form the first syllable of a word, but the audio won't start until the speaker's mouth is already forming the second syllable. The audio is about a half-second after the video.

The picture on WWLP-DT is superb, but the viewing experience is diminished by this lack of sync. With my receiver still unable to acquire WVIT-DT's signal, Channel 22 has become my NBC connection.

Originally posted by WHNB
For at least the past three weeks, during TV22's local news, syndicated programming, and network shows, I've witnessed this problem. (video sync)Thanks for the feedback ... your perspective is that they sync is off during all programming? Will have to take a more detailed look at that then ... Got the feeling that it was more noticable on local versus NBC HD - tricky to adjust! Thanks!

As noted earlier in this thread... I'm in Longmeadow and I can watch channel 3 in Hartford with rabbit ears in any of the back rooms of my house when the Yankees are on CBS. If somebody in Belchertown is getting ABC HD out of CT with a Terk Dish antenna, could I do better being maybe 10 miles closer and using one of those DB4 type flat antennas inside my attic?

So my question on the HDTV side of things is whether that's a barometer (my positioning) for something like getting viewable HD ABC signals out of CT with something more powerful than rabbit ears but not with a huge boom. I really don't want to mount an exterior antenna other than maybe one of those ones that surround the dish, but I might consider mounting an indoor antenna in my attic like this DB4 unit which is only 29" high:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/

RS claims a 12db gain for the clip-on dish antenna and the db4 gets maybe gets 15db, but more importantly... is anyone here in this area actually getting ABC HD out of Connecticut? Since I no longer have DTV, or a DTV receiver... does that mean these Terk-type dish antennas won't work because they get some power from the DTV lines? If I used the DB4 type antenna, does that need some sort of amplifier too?

I found this site to be pretty neat:

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

You can dial in your street address and get some sense of directionality and what you might receive.

One thought I had was setting up a tripod out on my back deck and trying some sort of antenna connected to the HDTV and seeing if I can lock in on something ABC :). RS or Sears might be a decent sourch for antennas you can return if they don't work... right?

And lest I screw up... ABC CT is a VHF or UHF station? I guess that has some bearing on antenna choices and also the VHF low or VHF high stuff.

Some feedback:

The WTNH-DT signal is broadcast digitally at VHF channel 10

It being a VHF - HI signal, you don't need 8 foot long rabbit ears to grab it. 41 or 42 inch rabbit ears should be fine.

For me, antenna height is EXTEREMELY important to receive WTNH-DT.

In other words:

Antenna mounted 4 feet above my 2nd floor carpet = no signal lock.

Antenna mounted 6.5 feet above my 2nd floor carpet, hanging off my ceiling fan blade = signal lock with occasional dropouts.

As a bonus, I also now get WTXX-DT VHF channel 12 now and was not getting it with old unamplified rabbit ears.

My buddy's Terk DTV snap-on unit requires a DTV receiver because the VHF/UHF amplifier is powered from the receiver.


But keep in mind that your elevation is probably lower than my friend who is up on a hill with a clear view of the Southern horizon.

I can't stress enough how important it is to mount your amplified VHF antenna as high as possible, even though you are closer to the broadcast tower.

The nice thing about INDOOR antennas is that most retailers will gladly refund your money if the antenna does not work up to your satisfaction and it is still in original condition.

cbagger...

Thanks for the feedback. I've got some 75 Ohm cable running up in my attic that went to a SW long wire, so maybe I'll try extending the cable from my basement ground block to Ant 2 on my Mits. Once I do that, I can try some kind of indoor antenna first, then maybe spring for the DB4 or something similar.

Does a 15db gain sound like it would help?

Originally posted by IronHorse
Once I do that, I can try some kind of indoor antenna first, then maybe spring for the DB4 or something similar.

Does a 15db gain sound like it would help?

If you are trying to get Channel 8 out of New Haven, you'll need a VHF or UHF/VHF antenna. The DB4 is UHF only. I was able to get it from East Longmeadow with an outdoor Radio Shack UHF/VHF with an amp. I'm looking to do the same as you with an attic mount.

I can't help you out with DB gain predictions.

My el-cheapo amplified antenna quoted gain figures include the effect of the amplifier.

Make sure that your amplifier is integrated into the antenna or is mounted in the field up by the antenna.

You will probably loose too much signal between the antenna and the amplifier if you place the amp downstairs by the TV.

Also, try using RG-6 cable instead of RG-59 cable.

mikemorel...

Were you up high in EL? I'm near Glen Brook Middle School and I keep forgetting to see if I get anything at all on the junker TV with rabbit ears upstairs, but that's probably a bad example anyway.

I might consider possibly trying one of those outdoor "wing" antennas like the GS2000A off my chimney, but the classic "yagi" or large boom is a no-no. Maybe something with a boom of maybe 50"-60" in the attic.

Well, at least I've established that I need a VHF antenna, because I'm really only after CBS & ABC from CT. CBS for Yankee games when they have them, and ABC for the occassional football game and whatever decent HD content they might have. As a bi-product of a directional antenna pointed towards Hartford/New Haven... I might get some different content on their PBS channels.

As a bi-product of a directional antenna pointed towards Hartford/New Haven... I might get some different content on their PBS channels. [/B]/QUOTE]

Forget about PBS for quite awhile. WEDH out of Hartford
doesn't even have a channel assignment yet, and the
other two stations are too far for you to receive. One is in
Norwich and the other is in Bridgeport.

Forget about PBS for quite awhile. WEDH out of Hartford
doesn't even have a channel assignment yet, and the
other two stations are too far for you to receive. One is in
Norwich and the other is in Bridgeport. [/B]Information on WEDN can be found here (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=13607).

Although I can't receive them northeast of Springfield MA ... the 41 dBu contour map indicates that WEDN-DT may be receivable southeast and east of Springfield ... they're on 45.

Let's hope that we see some action soon on all the CPTV channel assignments ... looks like its totally in the FCC's hand at this point in time.

Originally posted by IronHorse
mikemorel...

Were you up high in EL? I'm near Glen Brook Middle School and I keep forgetting to see if I get anything at all on the junker TV with rabbit ears upstairs, but that's probably a bad example anyway.



Hey - you are only a couple of blocks away from me now!

I was on a slight hill (30') in EL (off Mapleshade-near N. Main). I thought about mounting in the attic, but I had an aluminum sided house. Given that I was living alone, there was no one to say no to the large (12') antenna w/CM rotor. Worked great - I could control antenna direction with my Harmony remote. Got digital channels 8, 3, 20 (WB), 30, etc without a problem.
I'd like to think putting a large fixed antenna in the attic (no rotor) to pick up channel 8, would work, but I wonder if that 30' elevation change might be important.

In these boards there was lots of info about staying away from the Terk stealth stuff. There is a Winegard "square shooter SS-1000" UHF/VHF antenna that is neighbor friendly. Since it doesn't unfold it can probably be returned if it doesn't work. Recommended in Perfect Vision.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display_print.asp?PROD=SS-1000

Looks like it's limit is about 50 miles, though.

I have to think that CBS/3 is desperately in search of a programming or marketing director. Why? you ask? Well, just look at yesterday's NFL programming. At 4PM the NY Jets (leader in the wild card race) and the Pittsburgh Steelers (leader in their division) went at it for three quarters and wound up 3-3 until the Jets made some blunders and the Steelers got lucky. Probably one of the best defensive games we've seen all year (if you have a dish/NFL package).

CBS opted to not carry the game and had some skiing show on instead. Now, I know Winter is fast approaching and there are a lot of NE folks that like skiing... but PULEEEEEZEEE. How stupid is CBS in Hartford (or Springfield) for not featuring what was obviously the NFL game of the week? Thank GAWD I know someone with the DTV NFL package so I could go over and watch the game.

CBS/3 used to air a blank black screen when the Yankees were playing on CBS to Comcast customers in Massachusetts. They'd rather have no revenue and no programming than put the game on? Actually, it's MLB in that case who is wrong, wrong, wrong... because they insist that once you cross the MA state line, you cannot be a Yankee fan... you must be a Red Sox fan. It is totally bizzarre that DTV customers in Enfield get all Yankee games on YES, while DTV customers a half a block a way in Longmeadow/East Longmeadow are not allowed to get YES.

Senator McCain... you seem like a reasonable guy. Is this fair? People are willing to pay for cable service but MLB decides who can see what? I would like to apply for the open position of programming director at CBS3.

CBS did not have the doubleheader this week. So they could only show one game, which was the Patriots. There is only one game on at 4:00 and it alternates every week between FOX and CBS. This week FOX had the doubleheader. Occasionally there is 2 games on at 4:00, but that would mean that there was only one on at 1:00. For example if the Patriots played at 4:00 this week, that would have been the game that CBS 3 would have shown and there wouldn't have been a game on CBS at 1:00.

AWK! Well, I'm feeling a little foolish because I did not know that there were those kinds of (really dumb) limitations on broadcasting NFL games. I'm a little spoiled because I have friends with the NFL package and I had it also when I was a DTV person.

The thing I _liked_ about the NFL package was that it wasn't regionally specific like the MLB package. All these sports packages and PPV movies were what killed me with DTV. SWMBO was complaining I was spending about $200 a month on DTV because I had NFL, NBA, and MLB plus what they used to call the Platinum package. It was just too easy. :)

MLB should be forced to adopt the NFL style of programming. That way if you're a Dolphins fan in New England and both teams are on, you can watch the Phish. If you're a Yankee fan in NE and the Red Sox are on, you should be able to pay extra ($$$) and get the MLB packge that would include each and every Yankee game.

Haven't seen any discussion on this thread for a while. Does anyone have experience with their OTA capability? With their recently announced difficulties, is the $1 install offer a possible path to an inexpensive OTA tuner to supplement COMCAST (neither WGGB nor WTNH on the horizon = no Rose Bowl HD) ?

Originally posted by aldujaparov
Haven't seen any discussion on this thread for a while. Does anyone have experience with their OTA capability? With their recently announced difficulties, is the $1 install offer a possible path to an inexpensive OTA tuner to supplement COMCAST (neither WGGB nor WTNH on the horizon = no Rose Bowl HD) ? A neighbor of mine had a Voom dish - but it disappeared a couple of months ago (replaced with another satellite provider but now that dish is gone as well). Not sure why. Have not seen him to ask - maybe over the holidays ...

Could be worse: you could live in a non-Comcast area (like me) and not have [i]any[/] local HD's available (on the cable). :(

In any event - sure, it may be a quick way to get an ATSC tuner. I don't know what generation the VOOM box is (boy, that sounds funny when I read it back!) ...

I recently got the latest LG box (I think its the LST-4200 ... its at the office right now) and it does a much better job finding and locking on to ATSC signals (as compared to an old Samsung beast). I'd suspect that the default VOOM setup is a cheap antenna colocated with the satellite dish. That may work for some of the stronger locals but probably won't buy you WTNH-DT. Unless you have some specific reason to go to VOOM I'd suggest just getting one of the latest generation receivers and a good antenna setup.

Happy Holidays

OK, am I also unaware that CBS can't carry the Jets-Pats game in HD today? Signal on 84-5 (?) doesn't even look digital. I wasn't aware that CBS and Fox can't have four games broadcast on Sundays, so is the 4 PM game in regular def for a reason or technical reasons?

Should note that unexpectedly... the screen went 16:9 HD for around the last 10 minutes of the game without me touching anything.

Other than RS, is there anyplace in the Springfield area that actually has a nice lineup of in-stock regular OTA antennas? And of course... at reasonable prices. The fact that some of the NFL playoff games will be on ABC is driving me nuts (thank you TV40 :mad: !

I'd like to set up something in my attic that is purely focused on ABC out of CT, so it can't be too big. I think I can manage a 72" main boom max. Since I'm not that tuned in (no pun intended) to old style antennas, before I buy, should I run all the wires to a rabit ears to see if any signal is getting through? The only portable rabbit ears I have is one of those goofy RS set top deals with a mini-dish look and the rabbit ears behind. I think it is VHF-UHF, and I'd probably have to use an adapter to connect it to the cable.

Stark Electronics in Worcester has a good selection and I usually get the orders the next day with ground UPS since they are only 40 miles away. The Winegard VHF antenna that I have has 24 elements and allows me good reception of WTNH DT only about 50% of the time here in Easthampton. I think from points east of me (i.e. my Mother's house in the Fairview section of Chicopee) will get a better signal from Hampden, CT where the transmitter is for WTNH.
Jim

Jim...

I'm thinking about the RS VU 90-XR which has a 80" boom with some nice reviews on different sites by actual users. It normally sells for $52.00 but a couple of users claim that some RS stores have sold it on sale for $25.00 which is a no-brainer.

I'm in Longmeadow which should help me a little... with regard to where you are. Still, I probably should try the goofy rabbit ears before ordering or buying anything. The added benefit of RS is you can bring the thing back if it doesn't work and its local.

I don't know if BB or CC sell "outside" antennas, and of course, they probably have a restocking fee if you bring an antenna back.

IronHorse,
If you try the rabbit ears use the analog channel 8 to adjust direction and shorten the extension to about 1/2 the original length to begin with (high VHF) to optimize and then go to the digital (channel 10 or 8-1) and adjust the length a little at a time to peak the meter and hope for the best..... I have no experience with RS antennas only CM and Winegard so I can't help you.
Jim

Don't know if anyone is interested, but I just picked up the dual tuner DVR from Comcast today. It is 100 times better than the old one. The guide is very nice and the channel changing is fast. I just hooked it up so it will take for all the guide data to show up. So far I like what I see. The guide can be changed to any one of about 10 colors. The progress bar is what was missing big time from the first DVR (single tuner). The best change is the guide, no more ads, and it just looks good. If you have any questions just ask, I'll try to answer the best I can.

I picked up my 6412 2 weeks ago at the Springfield Comcast office - they swapped out the 6208 with no questions asked, like they were expecting me! It pays to follow the threads over in the HD recorders forum...The new guide is very nice, and the dual tuners are indespensible. I like that I can see more of the program gid than before.

Thats what bothers me about Comcast. I called about the Dual Tuners months ago. I was told that as soon as they come in they would call me, they never did. My friend told me he got his a few weeks ago, so I call and ask them if they had them, yep had them for a couple of weeks. Never got a call e-mail or anything. Oh well it's a great unit and I'm happy I got it. Hey Mike no way to skip over the channels you dont want to see, like the music channels. I hate channel surfing and have to go by those channels all the time. I might just drop Directv all together now, I can have 2 Dual Tuners without having to pay $1000 up front, like Tivo. I love DirecTv but this works out better and if they get a better box I can upgrade anytime.

Yes - Comcast needs to work on their people skills, but this unit @ $10-$15/month vs. $1000 for D*Tivo is not even debatable. I had D* in ELong. up until this year (vs. Charter it was no contest). When I moved this summer I was thinking about switching - Comcast had Sox baseball in HD, Starz HD and the promise of this unit. D* offered to chop $250 off the D*Tivo if I resigned. I resisted and am now glad I did. I may yet hook up my Zenith SAT520 D* receiver to get ABC channel 8 OTA or sell it.

Have you considered using the firewire to archive HD to tape? I'm tempted, as affordable HD DVD still seems a long way off, and even at 120Gb this unit only holds 10 or so HD programs. When I returned the 6208, It still had game 4 of the World Series on it.

RPMcCormick,

On a Sony HD200 and HDTivo DirecTv units digital 22 shows up as 22-1,22-2,22-3, all of which
have no signal for over a week. Read the earlier threads and did a rescan to add channels and
found 11-2 and11-3...HD22 and weather. No info for the channels just "regular schedule".

Tnx feedback on WWLP-DT issues. Will investigate further.

Some viewers reported having problems receiving WWLP-DT. Further investigation found that some of the packets in the ATSC stream were possibly missing. This resulted in some tuners showing channels as 11-2 and 11-3 (versus 22-1 and 22-2) and sometimes without names (WWLP-HD and WWLP-WX) ... other tuners were unable to tune the channel at all.

Equipment was reset at 4:42 PM on Tuesday 11 Jan 2005 and all looks good. Any reception problem reports subsequent to that time would be appreciated.

In the next few days some changes will also occur with the PID's (a packet identifier in the ATSC stream). The ATSC standard requires that all broadcasters stop using a certain range of numbers - so most broadcasters will have to reprogram their encoders. More information can be found on the http://www.atsc.org web site. You may have to rescan to pickup these new PID's when they're changed. Will post a note when the change is made for WWLP-DT.

I just tried to get 22 and I get nothing. I live in Feeding Hills about 2 miles from the transmitter so that is not the problem (and never has been). I get 22-1 WWLPDT, 22-1 WWLP-HD, 22-2 WWLP weather, etc. That is how it is showing up on my HD TIVO box. The other over the air channels like WFSB 3, WTIC 61, and WVIT 30 have all been coming in fine.

Originally posted by Vuce
I just tried to get 22 and I get nothing. I live in Feeding Hills about 2 miles from the transmitter so that is not the problem (and never has been). I get 22-1 WWLPDT, 22-1 WWLP-HD, 22-2 WWLP weather, etc. That is how it is showing up on my HD TIVO box. The other over the air channels like WFSB 3, WTIC 61, and WVIT 30 have all been coming in fine. Sorry - bit confused with your message. It says I get 22-1 WWLPDT, 22-1 WWLP-HD, 22-2 WWLP weather, etc. ... but then you note I just tried to get 22 and I get nothing.

Could you try to rescan or delete / add channel 11 (WWLP-DT) and see what happens? Not familiar with the TiVo boxes - is this just a stand-alone box (with ATSC tuner) or something that's cable or satellite oriented?

Sorry for the confusion - I have a DirectV Tivo HD box. The header on the channel ID says 22-1 WWLPDT, then the next one says 22-1 WWLPHD (that one was never there before last week), next channel in the listing is 22-2 then 22-3. That shows up on the header but when you want to watch the channel it says searching for satellite signal. The box uses an over the air antenna to get the local HD stations. WTIC 61, WFSB 3 & WVIT 30 all come in strong but WWLP is blank - that is, no reception.

Don't know if any of you guy's have been watching WGGB's digital strength. I went from 2 to 55, don't know if that means they might start doing something. Or it might be the wind is blowing in the right direction lately. RPM you don't know anybody at WGGB that could give you some info on what they are doing. I know they are your competitor, but you must know someone.

Ralphy...

You're going to have to show me how you read signal strength one of these days. Is that on your OTA setup or on Comcast?

It's on the Sat. It will show you how much signal strength there is. I will see you on Saturday, Steve said you were watching the game there. The signal meter will show you when you have a good signal.

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Hi ... you must be near or in Worcester county to be getting UHF stations from the Boston area! If you could post (or PM me) information regarding your location - I'll see if I can do some research regarding the reception of WWLP-DT. Of course - the big question is: how do you receive the WWLP analog signal on channel 22?

I live in Goshen about 10 miles northwest of Northampton and at close to 1400'. With DTV-11 I've always been on the fringe of reception only managing to lock a signal at night, TV-22 has always come in perfect. DTV13 out of Providence comes in so the problem shouldn't be my antennas and DTV33 which is in the same direction as DTV11 started coming in perfect once they went full power. When will DTV11 go full power?

Originally posted by Vuce
Sorry for the confusion - I have a DirectV Tivo HD box. The header on the channel ID says 22-1 WWLPDT, then the next one says 22-1 WWLPHD (that one was never there before last week), next channel in the listing is 22-2 then 22-3. That shows up on the header but when you want to watch the channel it says searching for satellite signal. The box uses an over the air antenna to get the local HD stations. WTIC 61, WFSB 3 & WVIT 30 all come in strong but WWLP is blank - that is, no reception. I think this relates to the problem with the VCT packets in the transmission. The information that contains the familiar channel number along with the short names was missing. Reset of equipment earlier this week seemed to fix the problem.

One of the issues I think we all see is that every vendor (and for that matter, maybe every generation) of ATSC tuners does something a little different in their software. Without the VCT info WWLP-DT should have looked like 11-2 and 11-3 ... that may be where the 22-2 and 22-3 came from on your box? I just fired up the computer with the HiPix card and scanned the airways ... attached is a picture of the channel scan and the technical info regarding the channels.

The first column is the friendly channel numbers: 22.1 and 22.2
The second column is the RF channel number
The third column is the PID's of the video and audio ... 0x means "hex" (base 16 match)
The fourth column is always "4" and I don't know what that is!
The last column contains the short identifier for the station ... its just text transmitted in the stream

If you can somehow rescan or delete and add WWLP-DT ... it may clear out the old information and get what is currently being transmitted in your ATSC tuner.

Originally posted by Vuce
Sorry for the confusion - I have a DirectV Tivo HD box. The header on the channel ID says 22-1 WWLPDT, then the next one says 22-1 WWLPHD (that one was never there before last week), next channel in the listing is 22-2 then 22-3.Following on from my previous quote - attached is a partial screen shot (limited to 600x600 resolution) of the TSReader Lite program's analysis of WWLP-DT transmissions this morning. Here's a bit of info for those who may be interested in what its telling you:

ATSC transmissions streams are comprised of small packets - all 188 bytes in length. Each packet has an identifier that indicates what is in the packet - there's a type and an ID. Most of these things are described using hex (aka hexadecimal) numbers. This is indicated by the 0x prefix.

Here you see WWLP-DT having two programs. Program #2 is WWLP-HD and that program's info is described by PID 0x20 (or 0x0020 - same thing). Given any program PID you can predict the video and first audio streams. The video is usually +1 and the audio +4. So packets encoded as 0x0021 belong to 22-1 video information and 0x0024 belong to 22-1 audio.

The highest numbered PID's, like 0x1FFB, typically contain information used by your tuner to figure out what is being sent in the ATSC transmission. This includes program guide information (which many stations are in the process of implementing).

If you've got an ATSC tuner card (there are a lot of versions, the one I'm using is the HiPix card, which may no longer be available ... the HiPix software was actually something developed by a group here on the AVS Forums!) that can record a transport stream - you can use a program like TSReader Lite (its free) to actually look at a stations transmissions: its all just computer data!

Originally posted by ralfy1
Don't know if any of you guy's have been watching WGGB's digital strength. I went from 2 to 55, don't know if that means they might start doing something. Or it might be the wind is blowing in the right direction lately. RPM you don't know anybody at WGGB that could give you some info on what they are doing. I know they are your competitor, but you must know someone. No, sorry. I personally don't know anyone there though I have occasionally bumped into folks from there at an broadcast engineering society type meeting. I have seen some fluctuations in their ATSC signal but haven't looked at it on a spectrum analyzer or anything to see what the real RF signal levels are. Anyone else made note of their RF levels? (Though I live a bit of a distance from Mt. Tom its pretty much line of site and I can receive it with a properly adjusted loop antenna indoors.)

Originally posted by JasonAndreas
I live in Goshen about 10 miles northwest of Northampton and at close to 1400'. With DTV-11 I've always been on the fringe of reception only managing to lock a signal at night, TV-22 has always come in perfect. DTV13 out of Providence comes in so the problem shouldn't be my antennas and DTV33 which is in the same direction as DTV11 started coming in perfect once they went full power. When will DTV11 go full power? WWLP-DT is up there ... so it shouldn't be a power issue. Have you tried a rescan or delete/add of ATSC channel 11? If you want to PM me with your address or lat/lon I can look at what the terrain looks like between you and Provin Mountain.

You get WPRI-DT? That's cool. And that's a pretty good haul as well!

Problems with WWLP-DT reception?

WWLP made some minor modifications to its ATSC digital transmissions
on Thursday 13 Jan 2004 at 4:00 PM. Although many ATSC tuners will
automatically adapt to these changes many viewers may find that they
have to either rescan their digital channels or delete and add WWLP-DT
for continued reception.

Bob...

Does this mean that WWLP is actually broadcasting a "digital" quality signal now (not HD) and if so... should it be showing up in the 84-x range or back in the single digit areas of Comcast's feed?

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
Problems with WWLP-DT reception?

WWLP made some minor modifications to its ATSC digital transmissions
on Thursday 13 Jan 2004 at 4:00 PM. Although many ATSC tuners will
automatically adapt to these changes many viewers may find that they
have to either rescan their digital channels or delete and add WWLP-DT
for continued reception.

I don't know whether you are involved with marketing at your station, but I would imagine that from my point of view as a sales/marketing guy, I'd love the fact that my local ABC affiliate is willing to look "dated" by not offering HD programming. As these HD sets gain in popularity... and they are... consumers will be hunting for HD programming. If I'm a local advertiser (let's say Balise?) and channel 22 has programming in analog, didgital and HD vs channel 40 who has analog and digital (?) but no HD whatsoever... and the cost for a 4-times daily 30 second spot for one month is the same price... BINGO! It's a no brainer.

I probably used the analogy before so I apologize for the redundancy. I liken Sinclair/ABC's attitude to the story about the parents who are watching thier sons march in a a military school graduation parade. One proud mother turns to the lady next to her and says... "look at them, 500 of our nation's best and my son is the only one marching in step, what a shame".

Originally posted by IronHorse
Does this mean that WWLP is actually broadcasting a "digital" quality signal now (not HD) and if so... should it be showing up in the 84-x range or back in the single digit areas of Comcast's feed?Unfortunately I don't have a lot of first hand Comcast experience as I don't live in a community served by Comcast and the WWLP facility is likewise served by a different cable company. I believe on the local western Mass systems Comcast is carrying WWLP-DT 22.1 (the 16:9 channel) as it is transmitted, 100% bit for bit. I think the channel number is 822.

Of course - a great deal of the time what is on 822 and the regular WWLP channel (I think Comcast channel 5) is really simulcast ... on 5 you see the NTSC transmission and on 822 you see the 22.1 subchannel of the WWLP-DT transmission. The bandwidth allocated for WWLP-DT far exceeds what is necessary for a standard NTSC signal ... either way, most of the plant and associated content is actually digital. I think there have been some subjective comparisons in some of these threads regarding comparing the NTSC and ATSC transmissions; sometimes you can't really tell much of any difference. HTH

Originally posted by RPMcCormick
... I just fired up the computer with the HiPix card and scanned the airways ... attached is a picture of the channel scan and the technical info regarding the channels. ...Attached is another picture of a channel scan at 7:00 PM this evening. See my posting above for additional info.

Ironhorse, I absolutely agree. All advertisers should be made aware that WGGB/Sinclair has elected not to deliver their message to the (presumably relatively affluent due to equipment cost) cable HD viewers. At a minimum, they should request a reduction in rates relative to the other broadcasters (yeah, WWLP!).

In addition, Sinclair is an impediment to the ability of electronics retailers and manufactures to sell HDTV product. Locally, the absence of MNF and the bowl games, nationally, they have a # of Fox affiliates, so no Superbowl. "My Free HDTV" is a thinly disguised attempt to extort massive funds from the cable companies...and ultimately the cable viewers.

Hit them in the pocketbook and they'll start paying attention.

I think Comcast should call Sinclair's bluff and provide any viewer in a Sinclair DMA with a box that accepts both cable and OTA. Most places all you'd need would be the Silver Sensor antenna; unfortunately it seems like we need something more powerful to pull WTNH. By the way, if we rig it up, is there anything else down south that would help justify the effort (UPN, WB: any HD worth viewing?)

I just got off the phone with "Pete" from WGGB, Channel 40 in Springfield, who was actually nice enough to call me back. He confirmed that WGGB-DT had increased their transmitter input power from 800 watts to 30KW starting on Friday, January 7. He was curious about how their DTV signal was coming in in West Hartford, and I confirmed a strong and pixelization-free signal at my house.

I also asked him about the progress of HDTV at WGGB, and he confirmed that the station is about 3/4 of the way there. There is some more studio work to do, which should be completed within the month, and that they have to install a new HDTV studio-to-transmitter link, and have ABC engineering come in to upgrade some satellite receiving equipment. He said that they expect to be HDTV operational at some point in the spring, and that the increase in transmitter power was part of the HDTV upgrade. Interesting news to those in Western Mass. waiting for ABC HD...

couldn't find anything on the cbs website, but avsforum thinks it should be 5.1. not getting it through comcast (did for Fox on earlier game). Is this a CBS or WFSB problem?

Originally posted by aldujaparov
couldn't find anything on the cbs website, but avsforum thinks it should be 5.1. not getting it through comcast (did for Fox on earlier game). Is this a CBS or WFSB problem? Previous posts in the Hartford, CT - HDTV thread indicate that WFSB is not transmitting in Dolby 5.1 ... only AC3 stereo.

Originally posted by cgorra
I just got off the phone with "Pete" from WGGB, Channel 40 in Springfield, who was actually nice enough to call me back. (snip)

I also asked him about the progress of HDTV at WGGB, and he confirmed that the station is about 3/4 of the way there. There is some more studio work to do, which should be completed within the month, and that they have to install a new HDTV studio-to-transmitter link, and have ABC engineering come in to upgrade some satellite receiving equipment. He said that they expect to be HDTV operational at some point in the spring, and that the increase in transmitter power was part of the HDTV upgrade. Interesting news to those in Western Mass. waiting for ABC HD...

This is interesting because I was under the impression that WGGB was going digital, but not HD (16:9). If this is indeed true, then I rescind my remarks regarding their lack of a marketing plan that would allow them to compete head to head with CBS and NBC in this area.

its good to see that there are ota hdtv channels for the taking. however I live on a street off sumner avenue that has tall trees. for this reason I had to have an exotic dtv install which entails a dish on the front of my house as well as one on a pole in the backyard allowing the triple lnb setup to work. my house is fairly tall [3 stories and pitched roof with a flat section] so I am wondering if any springfield residents in a similar situation tree cover wise can suggest an outdoor antenna setup that works. been to antennaweb and they suggest by the provided chart that even with the tall trees I should be able to get a ton of channels realtively speaking. currently I have a flat terk antenna on my roof but I dont think it was properly installed since the guys who just redid my roof said it wasnt connected to anything. so do I investigate having a mast antenna placed on my roof to augment what dtv has or would an indoor antenna work? who even does antenna installs in the springfield area?

TIA

Originally posted by digital_b_avs
currently I have a flat terk antenna on my roof but I dont think it was properly installed since the guys who just redid my roof said it wasnt connected to anything. so do I investigate having a mast antenna placed on my roof to augment what dtv has or would an indoor antenna work?You shouldn't have too much problems with the locals (WWLP, WGBY, WGGB) as they should provide a pretty good signal that would work with even a modest antenna. The issue will be more with channels 31, 33 and 35 - and a single UHF antenna fixed to the southwest may work for those guys. (I live a ways north and east of Springfield can can pretty reliably get the CT UHF HD stations noted above with an indoor antenna.) Sorry - don't have any recommendations for antenna installers ...

Originally posted by digital_b_avs
its good to see that there are ota hdtv channels for the taking. however I live on a street off sumner avenue that has tall trees. for this reason I had to have an exotic dtv install which entails a dish on the front of my house as well as one on a pole in the backyard allowing the triple lnb setup to work. my house is fairly tall [3 stories and pitched roof with a flat section] so I am wondering if any springfield residents in a similar situation tree cover wise can suggest an outdoor antenna setup that works. been to antennaweb and they suggest by the provided chart that even with the tall trees I should be able to get a ton of channels realtively speaking. currently I have a flat terk antenna on my roof but I dont think it was properly installed since the guys who just redid my roof said it wasnt connected to anything. so do I investigate having a mast antenna placed on my roof to augment what dtv has or would an indoor antenna work? who even does antenna installs in the springfield area?

TIA

I live in Feeding Hills so it is not a direct comparison but I get WFSB at 90%, WVIT at 85%, WTIC at 80 to 85%, WWLP at 90% and now WGGB at 85 to 90% all with an indoor Silver Sensor.

As of Friday evening 28 Jan 2005 it appears that Charter has put WTIC-DT HD up on channel 778 in the Springfield area.

Charter, they dont sevice Springfield do they. I thought it was only Comcast. Didnt think we had a choice for cable, I might be wrong.

not wrong.

Looks like on the Charter system in the Springfield area its FOXHD on 786 ... but currently in black.

Charter serves: Chicopee, Hampden, Wilbraham, Easthampton, Southampton, Hadley, Ludlow, East Longmeadow and Belchertown MA

Is anyone else having a problem receiving WGGB (40-1)? I've been getting blank screen for the last week or so even though I've been getting a signal between 40%-63%. I wasn't really concerned about it since the channel wasn't HD, but now I'm just curious.