What baffles me is that I'm sure MNF (ABC) is using the same production components, software, etc., as ESPN, yet their transmission is no where near as crisp.
I will give WPVI their dues, they do respond to customer complaints! I emailed WPVI my comments about Monday Night Football, and here's a couple of reply bites, from an email reply from James Gilbert, their VP of Engineering, who has been quoted in this thread before...

"Funny, we got a call from Comcast today wanting to know the bit rate we are sending out on our digital channel? Maybe they are squeezing it down a little. Comcast takes our signal apart (literally) and converts it to another modulation scheme (QAM) before they distribute it. I'm guessing they filter it down a little so they can fit it into their channel scheme.

Also, we are sending out 2 additional SD channels, at a very low bit rate, but it does take bandwidth away, somewhat, from the HD. However, since we're using "statistical multiplexing" to maximize bit distribution to the highest priority stream, which for us is the HD channel, I don't think the HD is suffering much from that. In other words, the stat mux is giving every bit available to the the HD stream when the minimum bit rate is satisfied for the two SD channels.

James D. Gilbert
VP of Engineering
WPVI-TV Ch.6
4100 City Avenue
Philadelphia, PA 19131"

They also say they monitored the MNF game OTA, and did not see any PQ issues. Maybe it is a Comcast thing, and we need to beat up on them???

I don't think the HD is suffering MUCH from that.

yea MUCH. :rolleyes:

" i dont think the sprained ankle will keep the olympic runner from winning the race, MUCH."

I don't any of us are here to beat up on WPVI or Comcast...and I'm glad that Mr. Gilbert regularly participates and contributes to these forums. I do know that if the feedback on this and other forums continued to question the reduced quality of my programming, I think its in someones interest to find out why...to simply say that "MAYBE Comcast is squeezing it down a little" doesn't cut it. If the distributors of my products (or programming in this case) were doing something to effect the end quality, I would be a little more concerned and want it corrected. We're not interested in beating anyone up about...just trying to point out the fact that it should be addressed.

I don't any of us are here to beat up on WPVI or Comcast
Just a turn of phrase, that's all. I agree with you totally. I hope you've contacted Comcast expressing your opinions.

I'm with you ZiggyB...Comcast is aware as is WPVI. I think we sometime forget that this technology is a work in progress and that it is relatively new to all of us. Pointing out the subtle issues and posting observations hopefully will serve to improve these product(s) as whole down the line...

I live in the Philly area and currently receive the NFL Network on two different channels -- 180 and also on 275 (not sure if 275 is the correct number, but it is on an unadvertised station in the 200s).

Anyway, some of the content on the NFL Network is advertised as being in HD. For example, the "game of the week" (tonight at 9:00 PM eastern) is advertised as in HD.

Does Comcast show this in HD somewhere? 180 is not an HD channel and neither is 275.

Last weeks "game of the week" was NOT in HD on either of those channels. I'm wondering if they use another channel for this?

The "game of the week" tonight (an HD show) is the Eagles -- Vikings (Monday night game). I would love to see this in HD.

Does anyone know if Comcast has this in HD somewhere?

Originally posted by shades
Techincally it isn't fall and UPN HD is waste of Bandwidth right now, Unless they start showing sixers and flyers games

OK, it's "technically fall", UPN has announced 7 HD shows this year, not to mention upcoming Sixers, Flyers, & movies...so when/what's going on with adding UPN to Comcast? There was talk earlier this summer that UPN would be added in the fall...JWhip, where are you???

While your at it...what of NFL HD??

Originally posted by caesar1
the "game of the week" (tonight at 9:00 PM eastern) is advertised as in HD.

Does Comcast show this in HD somewhere? 180 is not an HD channel and neither is 275.

This is also an issue for me with DirecTV. Last season when DirecTV was the only carrier of the NFL Network, they showed "Game of the Week in HD" as it was called then on an HD channel. It was - and still is - the only HD programming offered by the NFL Network. This season they appear not to be carrying the HD version of Game of the Week. I called DirecTV and the person on the other end of the phone just couldn't grasp the concept.

If you look at the HD graphic on the show it says "available in HD". That doesn't mean that Comcast or DirecTV will actually carry it. Part of the problem is that it's the only show on the network that is offered in HD. Until that changes, it's probably not worth the precious bandwidth to carry the NFL Network on an HD channel.

Rob

Originally posted by miatasm
The bypass box truely does nothing for you, RF Bypass isn't enabled so the bypass is there to make it less confusing to hook up.

It can't be mounted anywhere. It mounts to the back of the box using existing screw holes & its about 1/2 inch thick.

Is the space that you are trying to locate the box that tight that removal of the bypass would make it better?
Since you list it only for the HD STB, that room's cabinet has more room, so 1/2" won't matter; the STB should have enough ventilation.

The 'SD' STB should fit on a glass pedestal, that is 15" round. If not, it would fit on the floor next to the dresser.
I would just put it on the dresser next to the TV, but this would upset the decorating committee of one. :rolleyes:

As I understand it, using my own universal remote, to change between analog and digital, I would have to push the TV or Cable button and the Input button each time.

So, is it worth splitting the signal to get better analog?
I only have a Composite connection on the Analog TV.
I have DVI for the GWII HDTV.

In response to an email to Comcast Customer Care re:NFL Network HD question, I rec'd the following from Comcast this afternoon:

..."At the present time, we do not have an agreement with the NFL Network to carry their HD programming. While we do not currently offer this programming, it is possible that we may be able to bring it to you in
the future...

...when we are faced with programming decisions, input from our customers is extremely important. While at this time, I cannot say that HD
programming for the NFL Network, HDNet, TNT and ESPN2 will be added to
our lineup, I can assure you that your requests will be forwarded to and
given every consideration by our Marketing Team."

So much for that...for now anyway!!

DirecTV is showing the GOTW in HD on Channel 90. This year two games will be shown one on Wedensday night at 9pm and midnight and the other on Thursday nights at the same times. Last night's game was Titans vs Colts, tonights is Eagles vs Vikings. Enjoy

Originally posted by sdpadres
DirecTV is showing the GOTW in HD on Channel 90. This year two games will be shown one on Wedensday night at 9pm and midnight and the other on Thursday nights at the same times. Last night's game was Titans vs Colts, tonights is Eagles vs Vikings. Enjoy

Now for the $50,000 question...

do you have to be a Sunday Ticket subscriber to see it in HD? I checked all the HD channels last week and it wasn't on any of them. I'll try it again tonight.

best--

rob

nope, do not have to be a Sunday Ticket subscriber, I don't. All you have to be is a HD subcscriber. This is the first week so you would not have seen it last week. Enjoy the Eagles victory this evening

Originally posted by sdpadres
nope, do not have to be a Sunday Ticket subscriber, I don't. All you have to be is a HD subcscriber. This is the first week so you would not have seen it last week. Enjoy the Eagles victory this evening

Just checked D* channel 90 and it's scheduled to be on at 9! Thanks for the tip. Can't wait to see it.

Rob

Funny, WPVI is blaming Comcast for making them multicast and "squeeze" bandwidth. ;)

Originally posted by ZiggyB
I will give WPVI their dues, they do respond to customer complaints! I emailed WPVI my comments about Monday Night Football, and here's a couple of reply bites, from an email reply from James Gilbert, their VP of Engineering, who has been quoted in this thread before...

"Funny, we got a call from Comcast today wanting to know the bit rate we are sending out on our digital channel? Maybe they are squeezing it down a little. Comcast takes our signal apart (literally) and converts it to another modulation scheme (QAM) before they distribute it. I'm guessing they filter it down a little so they can fit it into their channel scheme.

Also, we are sending out 2 additional SD channels, at a very low bit rate, but it does take bandwidth away, somewhat, from the HD. However, since we're using "statistical multiplexing" to maximize bit distribution to the highest priority stream, which for us is the HD channel, I don't think the HD is suffering much from that. In other words, the stat mux is giving every bit available to the the HD stream when the minimum bit rate is satisfied for the two SD channels.

James D. Gilbert
VP of Engineering
WPVI-TV Ch.6
4100 City Avenue
Philadelphia, PA 19131"

They also say they monitored the MNF game OTA, and did not see any PQ issues. Maybe it is a Comcast thing, and we need to beat up on them???
Comcast made an inquiry to WPVI based on the HDTV problems related to the Saturday College Football game and the Eagles Monday night football game in HDTV. We are not experiencing problems with the WPVI feed any other times and asked whether there were problems with the National feed on those two dates. Comcast does not take apart the Mpeg2 signal, the Mpeg2 signal is a pass through at the Comcast headends. The modulation is only the carrier for the Mpeg2 program feed and we do not compress or statistically multiplex the Mpeg2 feed as WPVI does along with their 2 SD's. What we receive, is what we pass through to the customers. That does not mean there could be a problem at Comcast headends, but this is why we inquired with WPVI since it was only on the two games. We will be monitoring the broadcast feed this Saturday and the on Monday Night with analyzers to determine whether the problem is coming from WPVI direct or whether it is something we can correct on our side.

Christopher P. Patterson
VP Engineering
Comcast Eastern Division

Originally posted by progear
In response to an email to Comcast Customer Care re:NFL Network HD question, I rec'd the following from Comcast this afternoon:

..."At the present time, we do not have an agreement with the NFL Network to carry their HD programming. While we do not currently offer this programming, it is possible that we may be able to bring it to you in
the future...

...when we are faced with programming decisions, input from our customers is extremely important. While at this time, I cannot say that HD
programming for the NFL Network, HDNet, TNT and ESPN2 will be added to
our lineup, I can assure you that your requests will be forwarded to and
given every consideration by our Marketing Team."

So much for that...for now anyway!!

Would 2 games a week on INHD2 take care of your needs? I think that is the plan for Comcast, they are attempting to replay 2 games a week on INHD2 for your HD viewing pleasure.

Originally posted by progear
I don't any of us are here to beat up on WPVI or Comcast...and I'm glad that Mr. Gilbert regularly participates and contributes to these forums. I do know that if the feedback on this and other forums continued to question the reduced quality of my programming, I think its in someones interest to find out why...to simply say that "MAYBE Comcast is squeezing it down a little" doesn't cut it. If the distributors of my products (or programming in this case) were doing something to effect the end quality, I would be a little more concerned and want it corrected. We're not interested in beating anyone up about...just trying to point out the fact that it should be addressed.

I'm sure Comcast has some folks popping in and out here as well. They would not have run fiber directly into the WPVI studio if they were not interested in sending out the best possible picture. Comcast and WPVI are both interested in keeping there customer base happy. I'm sure they work very well together.

We will be monitoring the broadcast feed this Saturday and the on Monday Night with analyzers to determine whether the problem is coming from WPVI direct or whether it is something we can correct on our side.
Awesome information, all of that! Thanks for posting it. Great to know that they listen.

Its good to see that we're all in agreement about wanting the end product to be the best quality possible...kudos to both WPVI and Comcast for wanting to get it right regardless of where the issue may be...keep up the good work.

Originally posted by Dannytheman
Would 2 games a week on INHD2 take care of your needs? I think that is the plan for Comcast, they are attempting to replay 2 games a week on INHD2 for your HD viewing pleasure.

Why do they need an "agreement" to carry HD programming from the NFL Network? They already carry the NFL Network, and some of the stuff is in HD. So show what they have!

Also, why was INHD2 not accessible last night at the same time the Game of the Week was being shown on the NFL Network? The guide appeared to indicate a concert was on INHD2, but it showed nothing.

Another odd thing about the NFL Network and Comcast is that you can pick it up on BOTH channel 180 and channel 275.

Why not use one of those for HD for the NFL network?

I live in Bucks County, PA and receive Comcast through Sellersville office. Last night, all of the local HD channels were out. I was getting ESPN HD, CSHD (stretched) and InHD. InHD2 was in & out. All others, including WPI News & Weather were total black screens with no sound.

Missed CSI season premier in HD.

Anyone else with Comcast outages last night?

SD channels came in fine (as good as can be).

Originally posted by caesar1
Why do they need an "agreement" to carry HD programming from the NFL Network? They already carry the NFL Network, and some of the stuff is in HD. So show what they have!

Also, why was INHD2 not accessible last night at the same time the Game of the Week was being shown on the NFL Network? The guide appeared to indicate a concert was on INHD2, but it showed nothing.

Things are bing worked out on this NFL HD Game of the week.

Another odd thing about the NFL Network and Comcast is that you can pick it up on BOTH channel 180 and channel 275.

Those are virtual channels, don't let it confuse you. They both point to the same thing when you click on them.

Why not use one of those for HD for the NFL network?

The INHD 2 Feed will be the NFL HD feed, we don't want to tie up an entire 3 Mhz for 6 hous a week. Last night some tests were done to check on the signal feeds and switchers, check next week.

The channels listed are all VIRTUAL, they point to the same one, there are not 2 of anything, they are just duplicative access points to the same single source.

Originally posted by Grimey
I live in Bucks County, PA and receive Comcast through Sellersville office. Last night, all of the local HD channels were out. I was getting ESPN HD, CSHD (stretched) and InHD. InHD2 was in & out. All others, including WPI News & Weather were total black screens with no sound.

Missed CSI season premier in HD.

Anyone else with Comcast outages last night?

SD channels came in fine (as good as can be).

Sellersvile did have a ASI card failure last night. That was the broadcast HD channel issue. It was replaced after midnight.
INHD2 was going through some testing from New Castle Delaware that caused the concerns there. Next week NFL Game of the Week on INHD2 on Wednesday and Thursday!

The NFL game of the week in HD is scheduled to be available on INHD2 channel 207 on Comcast systems in PA, NJ and DE starting next Wednesday, 9/29.

There is a game on Wednesday and Thursday at 9:00pm. It is a one-hour recap of the best game of the week as determined by the NFL.

Enjoy.

Originally posted by the q
The NFL game of the week in HD is scheduled to be available on INHD2 channel 207 on Comcast systems in PA, NJ and DE starting next Wednesday, 9/29.

There is a game on Wednesday and Thursday at 9:00pm. It is a one-hour recap of the best game of the week as determined by the NFL.

Enjoy.

How do you know this information? Do you have a link?

Originally posted by Dannytheman
The INHD 2 Feed will be the NFL HD feed, we don't want to tie up an entire 3 Mhz for 6 hous a week. Last night some tests were done to check on the signal feeds and switchers, check next week.

The channels listed are all VIRTUAL, they point to the same one, there are not 2 of anything, they are just duplicative access points to the same single source.

How do you know all this? Do you work for Comcast?

And were they testing INHD2 last night for the NFL HD -- so you couldn't see anything on INHD2 last night at 9:00 PM?

Originally posted by caesar1
How do you know all this? Do you work for Comcast?

And were they testing INHD2 last night for the NFL HD -- so you couldn't see anything on INHD2 last night at 9:00 PM?

Modern technology is wonderful, youjust have to know how this stuff works. I know they are going to use INHD2 for the NFL HD games. I'd bet they were testing.

I think "the q" works for them.

I can pull in KYW's signal with an indoor antenna, but not any other station. What is it that they are doing right, is it just a matter of signal strength?

Originally posted by Dannytheman
Modern technology is wonderful, youjust have to know how this stuff works.

Why don't you just 'come clean' and admit you are a Comcast employee?

Originally posted by ZiggyB
I will give WPVI their dues, they do respond to customer complaints! I emailed WPVI my comments about Monday Night Football, and here's a couple of reply bites, from an email reply from James Gilbert, their VP of Engineering, who has been quoted in this thread before...

"Funny, we got a call from Comcast today wanting to know the bit rate we are sending out on our digital channel? Maybe they are squeezing it down a little. Comcast takes our signal apart (literally) and converts it to another modulation scheme (QAM) before they distribute it. I'm guessing they filter it down a little so they can fit it into their channel scheme.

Also, we are sending out 2 additional SD channels, at a very low bit rate, but it does take bandwidth away, somewhat, from the HD. However, since we're using "statistical multiplexing" to maximize bit distribution to the highest priority stream, which for us is the HD channel, I don't think the HD is suffering much from that. In other words, the stat mux is giving every bit available to the the HD stream when the minimum bit rate is satisfied for the two SD channels.

James D. Gilbert
VP of Engineering
WPVI-TV Ch.6
4100 City Avenue
Philadelphia, PA 19131"

They also say they monitored the MNF game OTA, and did not see any PQ issues. Maybe it is a Comcast thing, and we need to beat up on them???

The problem is that the encoder their using is bad at putting out a decent quality SD picture at a lower bit rate, if they had a better encoder they could reduce the maximum bit rates of the analogs.

Statistical Multiplexers allow you to define minimum and maximum bit rates for each program...

I believe that WPVI does use a stat mux.
And... with a stat mux, bandwidth is allocated/deallocated dynamically. No read need to define bandwidth parameters.

Originally posted by Ratman
I believe that WPVI does use a stat mux.
And... with a stat mux, bandwidth is allocated/deallocated dynamically. No read need to define bandwidth parameters.

It depends on the abilities of the stat muxer.

If all of the sudden there is a sequence in an SD channel that requires a lot of bandwidth and there is simultaneously the same sequence in the HD channel (very likely since their are simulcast) then both the HD and SD will try and consume as much bandwidth as possible.

By using priorities and max rates the operator can help control bandwidth allocations.

Again, not all encoders are created equal. Simple comparisons are if you have two different encoders, use the same input signal and set the encoders for the same constant bit rate. Compare decoded outputs, one will be better than the other. The same goes for stat muxers.

Originally posted by sdpadres
DirecTV is showing the GOTW in HD on Channel 90. This year two games will be shown one on Wedensday night at 9pm and midnight and the other on Thursday nights at the same times. Last night's game was Titans vs Colts, tonights is Eagles vs Vikings. Enjoy

i tried to see the hd version on directv 90 during the evening showing and the midnight showing.

all i could see was a black screen with the searching for signal banner on the bottom.

did anyone actually see hd on channel 90 for the nfl gotw yesterday?

I watched both. Sounds like a glitch with your STB. When that happens to me, I go in and check the signal meter for the sat the channel is on. After that, the channel usually comes in.

Originally posted by Ratman
Why don't you just 'come clean' and admit you are a Comcast employee?

Why should it matter who I work with? Every post I have put on here has been right on the money, many you get from others are via me. Isn't the information enough?

I could be with Harmonic?, SeaChange?, Emerge?, Motorola?

Originally posted by Dannytheman
Why should it matter who I work with? Every post I have put on here has been right on the money, many you get from others are via me. Isn't the information enough?

I could be with Harmonic?, SeaChange?, Emerge?, Motorola?

None of the above. But the fact that you just named 4 of Comcasts top vendors for hardware, kinda tells us who you are with........

& as quoted from an above post:

"......we don't want to tie up an entire 3 Mhz for 6 hous a week......"

The "WE" sorta gives it away don't ya think.......

And please explain to us where the 3 Mhz comes from? This would blow a hole in your "right on the money" theory...

BTW what is an "ASI card"?

2 games on INHD2 sounds great... even better if a magic pixie waves her wand and gets all the analog channels convereted to digital and then we get the 24 hour NFL and NBA HD channels, plus TNT, HDNET, and every other HD channel... but I'm just hoping Comcast ands HDNet and TNT (for basketball) soon enough.

I would expect you to see the analogs to start being simulacast to the digital line up by the end of this year.....

Originally posted by forcefed
I would expect you to see the analogs to start being simulacast to the digital line up by the end of this year.....

Is that *all* analog channels or just "Tier 1" followed be the remainder (such as Govt.Access) early next year?

Originally posted by JWhip
I watched both. Sounds like a glitch with your STB. When that happens to me, I go in and check the signal meter for the sat the channel is on. After that, the channel usually comes in.

JWhip; where have you been??? Any updates on predictions of new HD channel additions for Comcast? Last I remember (in this thread) you predicted UPN this Fall (now), discussions were ongoing for HDNet (implied if I remember correctly, not stated directly), and TNT HD didn't look good at all.

Your thoughts (and those of others who might know) would be welcomed!!

And how about ESPN2-HD?

I have confirmed carriage of ESPN2HD at launch. No other news to report.

Nice. Hoorah for JWhip. :)

Anyone have any juice on when the new I-Guide is getting rolled out in the Philly metro area??

Rumors have it any time now...

I-guide tomorrow according to someone who got an email back from comcast on Broadbandreports.com, that person is in jersey. Any news on HDNET or TNT?

Originally posted by shades
I-guide tomorrow according to someone who got an email back from comcast on Broadbandreports.com, that person is in jersey. Any news on HDNET or TNT?

Was the response recent? What I THINK I heard was that it was SUPPOSED TO happen on 10/1, but is getting pushed back.

We should be getting HD-VOD in Late-October, and 6412's by the end-of the year (keeping my fingers crossed).

ENJOY!

David

The person posted it today so i gues it was in the last few days or today


Here is what Comcast wrote

hank you for contacting us regarding your service.

The new interactive program guide or "I Guide" is scheduled to launch on
9/28/04. Please keep in mind this date is subject change. Please refer
to the attachment for information regarding the new interactive program
guide. Adobe Acrobat Reader is required to view the attachment. If you
would like to download a free version of Adobe Acrobat Reader, please
visit: »www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readste..

The benefits of the new guide are as follows:
* Higher resolution interface - easier to view information
* Time saving Quick Menu to take short cuts to features
* New, friendlier display with a full 90 minutes of program listings,
instead of current 30, minutes
* Easier to access Parental Locks
* Color coded listings
* Enhanced Search capabilities
* New mini-guide - lets you browse through other listings while you
continue to watch TV.
* Increased speed for faster navigation

If you need further assistance, please feel free to respond directly to
this email or you may reach us at 1-800-Comcast or 609-655-1300.

Dave-
Thanks for your info..

Man - always a delay...

1st with channel realign
Next with CSTV
Now with I-Guide..

Marketing really needs to not advertise stuff before it's really coming out.

Originally posted by jeepmatt
Dave-
Thanks for your info..

Man - always a delay...

1st with channel realign
Next with CSTV
Now with I-Guide..

Marketing really needs to not advertise stuff before it's really coming out.

Matt,

I wouldn't swear on my iGuide info. CSTV wasn't promised for Philly area )I like you, am not sure "why), the realignment was done on 8/31, or whenever they siad they would.

D!

Originally posted by shades
The person posted it today so i gues it was in the last few days or today


Here is what Comcast wrote

hank you for contacting us regarding your service.

The new interactive program guide or "I Guide" is scheduled to launch on
9/28/04. Please keep in mind this date is subject change. Please refer
to the attachment for information regarding the new interactive program
guide. Adobe Acrobat Reader is required to view the attachment. If you
would like to download a free version of Adobe Acrobat Reader, please
visit: »www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readste..

The benefits of the new guide are as follows:
* Higher resolution interface - easier to view information
* Time saving Quick Menu to take short cuts to features
* New, friendlier display with a full 90 minutes of program listings,
instead of current 30, minutes
* Easier to access Parental Locks
* Color coded listings
* Enhanced Search capabilities
* New mini-guide - lets you browse through other listings while you
continue to watch TV.
* Increased speed for faster navigation

If you need further assistance, please feel free to respond directly to
this email or you may reach us at 1-800-Comcast or 609-655-1300.

Shades,

Any chance of getting a link to the attachment?

THANKS!

David

They guy who posted the email didn't give a link but here is i guess basically what the guide looks like


http://www.comcast.com/newguide/ (http://comcast.com/newguide)

Shame people with Scientific Atlanta boxes aren't getting a new guide. I saw a commercial for the new guide and it sure looked purty.

Via Comcast - This looked pretty lackluster tonight. Very dull and ordinary. Almost like watching standard - def in widescreen. Is this because of the 2 WPVI nonsense channels (News & Weather) stealing bandwidth and picture quality?

Far & away the worst HD football I have ever seen in the one year I've had my Samsung HLN5065W set.

Anyone else's opinion on the telecast??

I thought it looked ok. Nothing spectacular. I have had HD for a week. I thought I was just getting used to it.

Anyone else's opinion on the telecast??
I thought it looked pretty abysmal again (but then again, so was the game). Some camera angles seemed better than others - the skycam looked bad; some of the slowmo replays looked definately SD; picture quality was soft at best.

WPVI and Comcast are aware of this; if you look through past, recent posts you'll see that both Comcast and WPVI were going to monitor things this weekend and yesterday for Monday Night Football; I will be interested in any results they might have found.....

That guide doesnt look any different then the one I have had for the last 4 weeks.

Then, you may not have the new guide. Anyone seeing the new guide?

Nothing in South Jersey as of this morning (6:00AM.)

Originally posted by Brajesh
Then, you may not have the new guide. Anyone seeing the new guide?

Well it looks exactly like the one thats one the page thats linked above. I'll have to check it out more when I get home. Are there going to be any other added features that make handling "season passes" a little easier?

iGuide, currently won't be until the middle of this month sometime...

So what happened last night? I go to INHD2 at 9:00 pm for the game of the week. It says "the game of the week" on the guide there, but nothing. No picture.

Have to watch on regular (non-HD) NFL Network channel.

I'm Comcast outside Philly.

Did they have a problem with running this on INHD2 last night?

Originally posted by caesar1
So what happened last night? I go to INHD2 at 9:00 pm for the game of the week. It says "the game of the week" on the guide there, but nothing. No picture.

Have to watch on regular (non-HD) NFL Network channel.

I'm Comcast outside Philly.

Did they have a problem with running this on INHD2 last night?

There was a problem 9:00-10:00 The midnight-1:00 (can't vouch for the other replay) was fine. Tonight is the Vikes-Packers Game. I think that the presentation was GREAT!!!

Here's the schedule:

> Game of the Week #1 - each segment is 60-minutes in duration
> * Wednesday nights at 9pm ET
> * Wednesday nights at Midnight ET (Wednesday night into Thursday)
> * Wednesday nights at 3am ET (Wednesday night into Thursday)
> *
> * Game of the Week #2 - each segment is 60-minutes in duration
> * Thursday nights at 9pm ET
> * Thursday nights at Midnight ET (Thursday night into Friday)
> * Thursday nights at 3am ET (Thursday night into Friday)


ENJOY!

David

The game was on last night on INHD in Camden County, SJ. Looked better then the crap fox calls HD.

...NFL Network HD looks very soft.
I'm thinking the difference is the whole "film converted to HD" vs "Live HD cameras".
Man what a loss in detail from film based.
My brother was excited when I told him he was gonna see the GOTW in HD this week on Comcast, but wasn't excited at how soft the picture was.I told him it's not Comcast...it looks just as soft on DirecTv.

...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=449850

And you think this looked better than what FOXHD does on Sundays.
You're either very biased on 720p, or your equipment needs to be adjusted.:confused:

Fox HD looks way better than the game of the week HD

Originally posted by Plasma George
...NFL Network HD looks very soft.
I'm thinking the difference is the whole "film converted to HD" vs "Live HD cameras".
Man what a loss in detail from film based.
My brother was excited when I told him he was gonna see the GOTW in HD this week on Comcast, but wasn't excited at how soft the picture was.I told him it's not Comcast...it looks just as soft on DirecTv.

Anyone notice how out of synch the audio was in the intro in the beginning -- and it may have stayed out of synch, but you can't tell when they are doing voice overs on film.

Originally posted by Plasma George
...NFL Network HD looks very soft.
I'm thinking the difference is the whole "film converted to HD" vs "Live HD cameras".
Man what a loss in detail from film based.

It's not the 'live camera' thing that makes film and video look so dramatically different, it's the inherent qualities of each meduim and the physics of how the image is produced. Video lends itself to a more dramatic visual difference when going from SD to HD.

HD video looks incredibly crisp compared to SD video. The difference between an SD film print and an HD film print is much less visually dramatic...probably because film is inherently less sharp than video as a rule. Much of that has to do with the way the negative is exposed (progressively for film as opposed to interlaced for video) and the slower frame rate (24fps for film as opposed to 30fps for video).

New video cameras that mimic film cameras (ie. they shoot at 24fps and produce a progressively scanned image like a film camera does) produce images that bear a stunning resemblance to film. Many TV shows are now being shot with '24p' video cameras and the result is a video image that is nearly undistinguishable from film.

If you still have NFL Game of the Week in HD or Inside the NFL on your TiVo, go back and look at the player wirings and sideline sound cameras. They are primarily shot by NFL Films on 24p HD video cameras and with some tweaking they look identical to the 16mm film cameras that shoot the slow motion action. Keep in mind that there may also be an ABC or ESPN video camera being sprinkled in and you CAN see the difference when one of those cameras pops in.

Rp

Fox's HD is so compressed it isn't much better then what they had on ED last year. ESPN's 720p is fine.

If you want to see good film HD watch the Sopranos. It's just as good as video HD.

Hey guys. i dove into the hd world today. all seems well. i installed a cm 4228 w/ 7775 preamp. i get all phila locals except kyw-3. i get no signal from them. It looks as though they transmit from the same tower as the rest. so my question is what am i doing wrong? are they at less power than the other stations? do i just need to adjust my antenna a little?
any help would be great.

Later,
Auk70

anyone notice that desperate housewives had no ctr channel for the first 15 minutes or so?

Yeah, annoying. I was watching the first minute or two before I realized I was missing the voice over.

Originally posted by whotony
anyone notice that desperate housewives had no ctr channel for the first 15 minutes or so?

WPVI needs to get its act together. This happens almost every time they broadcast HD.

This was a WPVI issue, WABC out NY was fine with the audio throughout the entire broadcast.

Originally posted by Auk70
Hey guys. i dove into the hd world today. all seems well. i installed a cm 4228 w/ 7775 preamp. i get all phila locals except kyw-3. i get no signal from them. It looks as though they transmit from the same tower as the rest. so my question is what am i doing wrong? are they at less power than the other stations? do i just need to adjust my antenna a little?
any help would be great.

I have the same setup in my attic 40 miles southwest of the transmitters. I get KYW the strongest of all the 10 stations I pick up. Be sure you are tuned to 26-1 and you may also try turning the antenna in 1 inch increments while checking signal strength. I did this by having having my kids call me on the cell phone while I was in the attic. They reported the signal strength with each move. Be aware that touching the antenna affects the signal so you need to wait a few seconds between moves.

Originally posted by Auk70
Hey guys. i dove into the hd world today. all seems well. i installed a cm 4228 w/ 7775 preamp. i get all phila locals except kyw-3. i get no signal from them. It looks as though they transmit from the same tower as the rest. so my question is what am i doing wrong? are they at less power than the other stations? do i just need to adjust my antenna a little?
any help would be great.

Later,
Auk70

I am in south Allentown and get a consistent lock on KYW-3, and all of the other Phladelphia majors except FOX 29, which I never receive. I am using a CM 4221 w/7777 preamp, LG 3100 box. BTW, I usually also get FOX 43 (47.2) from York...amazing 60+ miles but can't get Philly FOX!

Originally posted by drhill
Fox's HD is so compressed it isn't much better then what they had on ED last year. ESPN's 720p is fine. Just like last year...it's game to game (or stadium to stadium)
One game, (I forget) yesterday didn't look good, blooming colors, high contrast, not much detail.
Eagles game at the Linc look way better, blowing away any "widesreen" presentation last year.
Man you you don't have a good eye for PQ if you don't see an increase from last year or you've got some indivdual equipment setting issues.???
Last year--distant shots were so bad, so bad.

Brethd, thanks...ill try movin it again.

dsb013...yeah fox was also tough to get. I'm in a 3 story townhome, that puts me close to 45+ feet in the air. Guess thats the difference.

thanks for the replies!
Auk70

Originally posted by Plasma George
Just like last year...it's game to game (or stadium to stadium)
One game, (I forget) yesterday didn't look good, blooming colors, high contrast, not much detail.
Eagles game at the Linc look way better, blowing away any "widesreen" presentation last year.
Man you you don't have a good eye for PQ if you don't see an increase from last year or you've got some indivdual equipment setting issues.???
Last year--distant shots were so bad, so bad.

I said "isn't much better" not "isn't better". I didn't see yesterday's fox games in HD so I can't comment on that, but if you like overcompressed trash enjoy. Someone with a 480p set can't see the huge gains in detail 1080i gives you (or even good 720p like ESPN). You just get the benefit of supersampling for a cleaner picture.

ESPN started very poorly last year too, but they are probably the most consistent picture (outside of INHD's baseball games) though the wide shots (really wide and normal line of scrimmage shots) lack compared to 1080i.

As a side note, Is anyone bothered how the Padres games on INHD looks two steps above CSN's Phillies games? This needs to get fixed. I'd expect better from Comcast.

Comcast people..

Where is this new guide that was advertised in my last bill. Postponed?


Anybody have inside info?

Originally posted by dutchboy71
Comcast people..

Where is this new guide that was advertised in my last bill. Postponed?


Anybody have inside info?

Looks like the 2nd half of October,or the first half of November - not sure what the delay is.

If I hear any different, I'll let you know.

David

The new guide along with the 2 tuner DVR............????

I'm in Del. Co PA and I too got the notice saying "It's coming"

To continue the thread of poor picture quality of the Monday Night Football games from WPVI via Comcast Cable, here's a couple of interesting bites from my correspondence with WPVI, Mr Gilbert their VP of Engineering, and relates to experiments they did for the 9/27 game...

"Below is a description of the experiment we conducted last Monday night during MNF.
There were no changes made to our DT systems that would be different from the previous Monday night. We recorded MNF using two separate feeds. One feed was recorded directly off the network satellite IRD 45 MB/s to 1.5GB/s (base band) HD-SDI using a Panasonic D5 VTR. The other feed was recorded off-air using a 1st generation consumer Panasonic ATSC set top box and a consumer D-VHS VCR which records the composite 19.39 MB/s MPEG2 stream. We played back both recordings simultaneously into a 50" Pioneer Plasma display with a native resolution of 1280x728. There were four of us watching while switching back and forth between the two feeds and not one of us was able to discern any perceivable difference between the two recordings. I was quite surprised because I thought we were going to see at least a subtle difference due to the fact that we're simultaneously running two additional SD channels that limit the HD feed to a maximum of 16 MB/s. Bottom line....... I'm confident saying that the two additional SD channels do not significantly affect the quality of our HD channel and that our HD channel is broadcast without any perceivable degradation to the delivered 45 MB/s network program.

Comcast reported that they did not see any problems with the HD feed for MNF on 9/27/04."

and some interesting info......

"fyi....sky cam is HD this year but the goal post (end zone) camera is 16x9 SD up converted to 720P, very obvious. However, the sky cam looked fabulous here. It is understandable that if there is bit reduction anywhere in the system the sky cam would exhibit the effects first since the camera is usually in motion which demands a lot of bandwidth"

So this prompted me to try and compare the OTA MNF signal with what Comcast deliver. Taking the plunge, I bought an LG Electronics LST-4200A OTA receiver coupled with a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna, interlaced 1080i signal, DVI via a Gefen 4x1 splitter to my Panny (which has to take 1080i, can't take 720p). Have the Morotola 6200 from Comcast, again 1080i via DVI to the Gefen. I could just use my remote to toggle the DVI splitter to show OTA or Comcast.

Well, I thought the Comcast signal was one of the better ones this season, but could still see it was soft. The OTA signal's colors were a touch more saturated (it seemed) but it was perceptibly sharper! It looked easily as good as the ESPN games this year, which I consider to have some of the best PQ. Toggling between the two, OTA was clearly the winner. To be sure, the differences were slight, but significant. To be frank, I was pretty stunned that I got such a great picture and reception on all of the digital HD channels from a tiny indoor antenna!

I briefly flicked through some of the other channels showing their prime time HD shows, and compared the two - it seemed that OTA won every time, but maybe a bit too early to make that statement - only had the OTA box for one day!

Anyway, just my views and experiences here - certainly be interesting to see the OTA FOX Eagles games and compare them to Comcast - have to wait until the Panthers!

I have parts of this week's Phillies games on DVHS. if anyone thinks they look soft they need to check again. They were much sharper that the games earleir in the season. Bodes well for the Sixers games.

Originally posted by drhill
Someone with a 480p set can't see the huge gains in detail 1080i gives you (or even good 720p like ESPN). You just get the benefit of supersampling for a cleaner picture. You're living in a numbers world, cause I DO see a huge jump in PQ as FOX went from "widescreen" to 720p. (I don't see it as crap like you say)
I also agree CBS 1080i is the best NFLHD I've seen, so I DO see the difference 1080-720 difference, maybe not as noticeable on a 42".

5 or so Comcast HD buddies that all have RPTV (Mits, Hit, Tosh, all 1080i), they don't know the numbers we're speaking of, but what they do say is NFLHD looks the best on George's plasma.
Shame on them for only using their eyes.!

I see the "major" difference from 480 on the Fox highlights on ESPN. Fox 29's game broadcasts look noticeably worse than the Fox highlights do. That observation has nothing to do with numbers, and everything to do with my lasik corrected eyes.

I may have missed it in the thread, but what is the theory behind WTFX's broadcast looking worse than the full potential?

FYI - I view both OTA and on Comcast, on an ISF calibrated display.

Originally posted by ZiggyB
To continue the thread of poor picture quality of the Monday Night Football games from WPVI via Comcast Cable, here's a couple of interesting bites from my correspondence with WPVI, Mr Gilbert their VP of Engineering, and relates to experiments they did for the 9/27 game...

[FONT=courier new]"Below is a description of the experiment we conducted last Monday night during MNF.
There were no changes made to our DT systems that would be different from the previous Monday night. We recorded MNF using two separate feeds. One feed was recorded directly off the network satellite IRD 45 MB/s to 1.5GB/s (base band) HD-SDI using a Panasonic D5 VTR. The other feed was recorded off-air using a 1st generation consumer Panasonic ATSC set top box and a consumer D-VHS VCR which records the composite 19.39 MB/s MPEG2 stream. We played back both recordings simultaneously into a 50" Pioneer Plasma display with a native resolution of 1280x728. There were four of us watching while switching back and forth between the two feeds and not one of us was able to discern any perceivable difference between the two recordings.

Switching back and forth isn't a good way to judge -- (relying on memory). You need two identical monitors showing it simultaneously. Or split screen -- if possible (to avoid any differneces in the monitors).

Originally posted by Drew_N
I see the "major" difference from 480 on the Fox highlights on ESPN. Fox 29's game broadcasts look noticeably worse than the Fox highlights do. That observation has nothing to do with numbers, and everything to do with my lasik corrected eyes.

I may have missed it in the thread, but what is the theory behind WTFX's broadcast looking worse than the full potential?

FYI - I view both OTA and on Comcast, on an ISF calibrated display.

Drew,

Who did your calibration? was it worth it? I've been on the fence.

THANKS!

David

Eliab from avical has calibrated my previous Toshiba CRT RPTV and my current Sony XBR GW3. The results were much more dramatic with the Toshiba because it had a lot more to tweak. The grayscale was WAY off on the Sony though so an lcd rp can benefit as well. What display are you think of having calibrated?

I personally recommend it. It really helps detail jump out on both HD and dvd viewing. I would highly recommend Eliab if you do chose to have it calibrated. He is a perfectionist and works until your display is the best it can be. He also talks with you the whole time about what he's doing and how you will benefit.

Originally posted by Drew_N
I see the "major" difference from 480 on the Fox highlights on ESPN. Fox 29's game broadcasts look noticeably worse than the Fox highlights do. That observation has nothing to do with numbers, and everything to do with my lasik corrected eyes.
I view all FOXNFL HD games through the Sunday Ticket (if I could only keep my friends away to watch what I want)...it's on the other forums that ESPN highlights are better than the local feeds, that's a shame.
All I can say is the Sunday Ticket games are identical to the ESPN highlight as far as PQ goes....awesome.

Originally posted by Plasma George
I view all FOXNFL HD games through the Sunday Ticket

Ahh! That would make sense and explain the discrepancy. I wouldn't mind Sunday Ticket, but they would black out the Eagles game with the better picture quality.

I guess I'll just keep switching to the CBS game once the birds have finished whooping up on their opponent.

Originally posted by faceoff
Drew,

Who did your calibration? was it worth it? I've been on the fence.

THANKS!

David

I've had my plasma calibrated after ~ 6 months & it was well worth the $450 spent. He spent about 4 hours with my unit & calibrated two component, one DVI & one firewire on mine. This is who I used; http://lionav.com/mgreggloewen.html. Good luck!

Switching back and forth isn't a good way to judge -- (relying on memory).

Well these are professional video engineers (at WPVI) doing this, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. I am sure that they are more critical than even I am about their PQ. They are also comparing a base band satellite signal to the MPEG2 stream they supply OTA - I would have thought there would have been a massive difference....

What's the point in switching to ch3 if there just going to be showing you the low definition Pittsburgh game?

I don't understand them... there were two very good AFC matchups on at 1 on Sunday, at least one of which would have been high definition. CBS should mandate that the HD game is an HD game, but perhaps that would violate some rule which says only 1 game per market.

Regardless though, CBS3 should always look to show one of the HD games when it can rather than Pittsburgh. Last time I checked Pittsburgh was hundreds of miles away and if a viewer insists on seeing their games get the Ticket and let the rest of the Philadelphia area see a decent game.

Philly is an area filled with transplants from all over the state, many of whom are fans of the Steelers (including myself). I believe Ch 3 shows many of the Steelers games due to this fact in a hope of maximizing its viewership and ratings. The separate HD game on the digital channel I believe would be great, but is not allowed by the NFL's strict and sometimes fan unfriendly television rules.

Originally posted by Mike3
What's the point in switching to ch3 if there just going to be showing you the low definition Pittsburgh game?

I don't understand them... there were two very good AFC matchups on at 1 on Sunday, at least one of which would have been high definition. CBS should mandate that the HD game is an HD game, but perhaps that would violate some rule which says only 1 game per market.

Regardless though, CBS3 should always look to show one of the HD games when it can rather than Pittsburgh. Last time I checked Pittsburgh was hundreds of miles away and if a viewer insists on seeing their games get the Ticket and let the rest of the Philadelphia area see a decent game.

Or, do what they did when they aired the NCAA's - whatever the local game is on analog, and an HD game on digital. That's what they did since the St Joes games were NOT in HD (until the semi's).

Just my $.02.

David

David, they are not permitted to due to NFL rules, which are different from those of the NCAA. KYW is required to put the same game on 3 and 3-1 as per the NFL. Dumb but true. Regarding engineers ay WPVI, just because you are a video engineer does not mean that you are very particular about video PQ or audio AQ. Some are good, others not so good.

Originally posted by caesar1
Switching back and forth isn't a good way to judge -- (relying on memory). You need two identical monitors showing it simultaneously. Or split screen -- if possible (to avoid any differneces in the monitors).

I have to agree with you. I work for a company that makes SD and HD encoders, if you cannot tell the difference between a 45Mbps HD signal and a re-compressed 16Mbps signal of the same content then there is something wrong with your display or your eyesight. Other than not having the same monitors side-by-side it would be preferable to use the same professional decoder.

For those concerned you may want to kick the issue up a notch to ABC Sports. If possible, you could provide them with a transport stream recording (DVHS, for example) which they could compare to their high bit rate production recording.

I thought the quality of the broadcast on 10/4 was improved. I tend to focus on scene changes and the area around the logo and graphic as those hard edges are more difficult for encoders to handle. Previous to 10/4 I was seeing bluring and blocking, but I did not see so much of that on 10/4.

Originally posted by Plasma George
I view all FOXNFL HD games through the Sunday Ticket (if I could only keep my friends away to watch what I want)...it's on the other forums that ESPN highlights are better than the local feeds, that's a shame.
All I can say is the Sunday Ticket games are identical to the ESPN highlight as far as PQ goes....awesome.

Then at least you are getting your money's worth, because watching the game on Comcast there is a huge difference (as stated) between ESPN's highlights and the live game (though I've also noticed that "commercials" of basketball games on INHD look better then the live shots too, but not as drastic as Fox's stuff).

I'm not getting caught up on numbers when talking about 480p sets. What you are seeing on your display is the best form of anti-aliasing. I'm not doubting that you are seeing a huge boost, but it isn't the same as seeing the resolutions natively.

On Tuesday I e-mailed the engineering department at Fox 29 to ask whether the baseball would be in HDTV or Fox Widescreen. I also asked about their signal strength.

This was the response I received regarding signal strength:


<<Regarding power, we are currently at the maximum power the FCC has allowed us to operate at. Two years ago, we asked the FCC to allow us to raise our power level to that of the other stations. They finally granted
that request last Friday. Unfortunately, it will take about two years to build a new transmitter facility for that power.>>


It is also noteworthy that they assured me the Yankees-Twins game would be broadcast in 720p HDTV. Most of the experts seem to believe that what was actually broadcast was upconverted 720p, a version of Fox Widescreen.

Originally posted by Drew_N
Eliab from avical has calibrated my previous Toshiba CRT RPTV and my current Sony XBR GW3. The results were much more dramatic with the Toshiba because it had a lot more to tweak. The grayscale was WAY off on the Sony though so an lcd rp can benefit as well. What display are you think of having calibrated?

I personally recommend it. It really helps detail jump out on both HD and dvd viewing. I would highly recommend Eliab if you do chose to have it calibrated. He is a perfectionist and works until your display is the best it can be. He also talks with you the whole time about what he's doing and how you will benefit.

Actually, I've heard of Eliab, I think that he does calibration tours. Also, interestingly enough, the 2 sets you speak of are what I have, except, my Sony is not an XBR!

David

Originally posted by drhill
I'm not getting caught up on numbers when talking about 480p sets. What you are seeing on your display is the best form of anti-aliasing. I'm not doubting that you are seeing a huge boost, but it isn't the same as seeing the resolutions natively. It would probably help us all understand what you're seeing if you had your equipment listed in your profile.
What type of TV/make/model are you viewing these HD games on.?
DVI/component.?
I assume 6208.

philadelphia comcast folks..

I've got a question for you...

Comcast in the SF Bay Area has alot of systems they say they "upgraded" but are only 550Mhz systems. They say they are done with those areas yet they are all missing many HD channels because we are out of bandwidth....We are missing INHD1, INHD2, FSNBA-HD, CinemaxHD, StarzHD, Discovery HD etc... (Basically all we have is some HD locals, ESPNHD, HBO/Show)...The newer 750/860Mhz areas have them all...the rest wait until all Digital which is late 2006 (or probably much longer)

The local Comcast execs all say there are many areas near their HQ in Philly that are the same (550Mhz) and its something we have to live with

Can anybody confirm that you all have 550Mhz networks out there and if so are you missing channels/services?

Do you know of any 550Mhz systems that they are working on upgrading to 750Mhz+...or that were recently upgraded from 550Mhz...just looking for ammo.

Thanks
Steve

Originally posted by davisdog
The local Comcast execs all say there are many areas near their HQ in Philly that are the same (550Mhz) and its something we have to live with

Can anybody confirm that you all have 550Mhz networks out there and if so are you missing channels/services?

The Comcast system in the city of Philadelphia is 860 Mhz. I think all of the Comcast systems in the Philadelphia cluster are 860 Mhz. Most (if not all) of Comcast's 550-Mhz systems are in former AT&T areas. The systems in the Pittsburgh cluster, for example, were former AT&T. All of those that were rebuilt before Comcast took over are at 550 Mhz. (Those that were rebuilt after the Comcast takeover are at 750 or 860 Mhz.) I have no idea why AT&T chose to rebuild only to 550 Mhz...probably cost, lack of knowledge of the cable business, lack of planning for the future, etc.

I'm not sure if Comcast is planning to do anything about the 550-Mhz systems right now. Obviously they are at a disadvantage when it comes to HD and HSI. Even when cable goes all digital they will still be pressed for bandwidth. They may be waiting until all of the remaining analog/one-way systems are rebuilt before going back and redoing the 550-Mhz systems. Or, perhaps they think they can get by with 550 Mhz until when/if they start upgrading systems to 1 Ghz (why spend all the time and money to upgrade from 550 to 860 Mhz just to turn around and redo it for 1 Ghz in a couple years, for example).

Sorry to hear you're not getting all of the HD channels. But think of it this way: 550-Mhz systems are good candidates to be the first to go all digital because of the bandwidth crunch. :D

Originally posted by Plasma George
It would probably help us all understand what you're seeing if you had your equipment listed in your profile.
What type of TV/make/model are you viewing these HD games on.?
DVI/component.?
I assume 6208.

Panny 47wx42 (47 in) 1080i set that I've heavily tweaked for about two years now. Sadly no dvi, on the set but component. My area is a Scientific Atlanta area, so I'm using the SA 3250HD (hopefully getting the SA 8000HD soon).

Box outputs 1080i and "side" converts 720p to 1080i. My 720p displays look better then a friends Sony GWII (If I remember his model number correctly) which is a 720p set (technically 768p) and he has a superior Motorola box, 6200. Though my friend's father has a Toshiba 57" which he won at the Taj and it kills my tv's display... except for the burn in on the sides. Sigh.

I just got HDTV finally.


WTF is with WPVI's subchannels??



Does anyone know the phone number of the guy in charge of 6abc's HDTV management?

I got my SA8000 yesterday. I think I'm hooked on DVR already. I recorded a Yellowcard concert on INHD last night and the fight on HBO. I wasn't sure if I could record 2 things at the same time or I would have done Bad Boys II as well.

PQ is better then the sa 3250 and the response time for the guide/info is improved. As is VOD menu surfing.

But damn is this box big. Behemoth isn't a big enough word to describe it. Makes a bit of hard drive noise too, but it isn't bad. Shame they couldn't use a quiter drive (probably cost issue).

Originally posted by whsbuss
Did anyone see intermittent breakups on WPVI-DT tonight? Of all the channels OTA 6-1 is the absolute worse.

I had the same problem with the HD signal over Comcast. Had to switch to the SD channel for awhile. The HD cleared up about 1/2 way through.

Originally posted by minorthr
So far Law and order is not in HD. Its coming in 4x3 SD. Anyone else having this issue ?

The first Law and Order started out in 4:3 then after the second or third commercial break went to 16:9. The second L&O (two back-to-back) had the first segment in 4:3 and the rest in 16:9. The last L&O was 100% 16:9.

Originally posted by hd_addicted
The first Law and Order started out in 4:3 then after the second or third commercial break went to 16:9. The second L&O (two back-to-back) had the first segment in 4:3 and the rest in 16:9. The last L&O was 100% 16:9.

Started yesterday for me. Must be something wrong with their equipment, signal is oscillating from strong to weak pretty consistently. As for their sub-channel issues -- that's something they have had screwed up for years. They don't seem to care.

I received a cablecard on Monday. It was installed and the channel labels work and the assignments are correct, but after two subsequent visits, Comcast is still unable to get the digital tier channels and premiums to display. Has anyone in our area gotten a cablecard with a successful installation?

Originally posted by Mike3
I received a cablecard on Monday. It was installed and the channel labels work and the assignments are correct, but after two subsequent visits, Comcast is still unable to get the digital tier channels and premiums to display. Has anyone in our area gotten a cablecard with a successful installation?

What suburbs are you in?

D!

Random, but relevant since other Lehigh Valley users are in here:

RCN now has the HD-DVR available in the Valley. I just got it installed yesterday. They're using the Moto 6208, and there was no indication when/if they would have the 64xx.

Now I can finally watch the movies on HBO-HD and HDNet Movies that come on at crazy times.

Originally posted by Mike3
I received a cablecard on Monday. It was installed and the channel labels work and the assignments are correct, but after two subsequent visits, Comcast is still unable to get the digital tier channels and premiums to display. Has anyone in our area gotten a cablecard with a successful installation?

I have been using a cable card for about a month now. I'm in Harleysville. There was a week that the digital channels weren't working but it was something on Comcast's end. I don't have any of the premiums so I can't comment there. However, all the HBO channels were coming through over the weekend. Must have been a free HBO weekend...

Anyone else have screwed up audio on Lost (WPVI) tonight? It was very choppy for ~15 minutes, switched to 2.0 with effects only for a couple minutes, then was normal after the 2nd commercial break.

This was one of my first recordings with the DVR so I hope that's not the issue.

ABC had audio problems at the begining of Lost last night but as you said, all was OK by the 2nd. commercial break.

Hey guys-
Just curious - what's a cable card?

Originally posted by jeepmatt
Just curious - what's a cable card?
It's stickied in the Hardware forum...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=419356

The OTA reception of HDTV from Channel 6 (WPVI) had some type of audio problem for me as well during the first part of lost. There was a similar problem during the first half of Lost last week and the picture was bad as well. I hope they can get this fixed.

the same problem happened for the first 2 eps of despewrate housewives also.
the sound was fine on the analog channle, not so much for the picture there tho'.

Has anyone heard anything new on when Comcast will roll out the 6412? Last I heard was this month, but that was a while ago.

I'm anxiously waiting for this bad boy to come out so I can finally ditch Directv. I can't wait for dual tuners and local HD! (And just in case anyone asks, I can't do OTA because of my location [Center City, surrounded by skyscrapers, horrible multipath, I've tried ;) ]).

I talked with an SR at Comcast a few weeks ago and she said Nov.1.
When I call on Nov. 1, they'll probably say Dec. 1.

I wonder if the delay is an i-Guide issue? From what I can gather, the 6412 needs i-Guide for dual-tuner functionality (plus a host of other improved DVR features), and there is/was some kind of last-minute bug with the i-Guide that needed to be worked out.

I bet they already have the 6412s at the warehouse but aren't giving them to customers until i-Guide is ready. Hopefully it will be soon!

Some people are probably wondering why I don't just switch to Comcast now and get the 6208. I've thought about that, but I really don't want to give up the dual tuners on my SD DirecTivo, and I don't want to have to pay for both Comcast and Directv (even if it would be for only a month or two). Plus I've seen the dismal blue guide currently offered on the 6208, and I think I'd kill someone if I had to use that with all its limitations. The i-Guide looks much more promising, as it seems to have all of the basic Tivo functions except wishlists and suggestions (which I could live without in exchange for receiving and recording HD).

Originally posted by flyersfan
Anyone else have screwed up audio on Lost (WPVI) tonight? It was very choppy for ~15 minutes, switched to 2.0 with effects only for a couple minutes, then was normal after the 2nd commercial break.

This was one of my first recordings with the DVR so I hope that's not the issue. Yes same problem OTA with my HD TiVo.

There are 6412's that arrived at the San Jose, Ca Comcast warehouse...they have Iguide on them. rumor is distro will start Mid Nov in our area.

I am waiting on the 6412 as well. If you read the posts on it though, it sounds like there is a LONG way to go! Many bugs & dual tuner not yet supported. I hope it is available soon but I hope it's ready when Comcast releases it!! I was one of the first to get the 6200 & went through 4 boxes & v 7.15 firmare before things settled down for me!!

dual tuner is supported...alot of the information about bugs has been in regards to the Cox systems that have been deployed...Those are using different software (passport echo) then comcast does (iguide). Very little is known about the status of iguide (and if its buggy or not)

Ouch-


Anyone else having terrible sound and pixellation during the Apprentice (WCAU-DT, 10-1) OTA??

Not as bad as the olympics first were, but not so good - I switched to the sat feed (at least there's a backup!)

Anyone?

Lee

Does anyone know if the indoor antenna Silver Sensor would work for a distance of about 45 miles from the towers in Philly? I live in Delaware, not sure if this would be strong enough to pick up the HD signals from Philly.

If not, is there any indoor antenna that might work?

Thanks!

It's not impossible, but I'd be surprised if a silver sensor picked up from that far inside - but, find one from a store where you can return it and give it a go, can't hurt...

Lee

I do get a good amount of pixellation and audio drop-outs on the hi-def and digital channels. I've had a bunch of Comcast techs out and they're all worthless. They have been crediting my account so maybe I'll get to the point where I don't have to pay for cable...

My dad said he was getting terrible pixellation with comcast in south jersey, and he has gotten a TON of credits also - something is up down there.

My problem was specifically with the OTA WCAUDT feed, via antenna. With the exception of the first few days of olympics, NBC-10-1 has been crisp...

Wonder if anyone else noticed...

Lee

Originally posted by salukis
Does anyone know if the indoor antenna Silver Sensor would work for a distance of about 45 miles from the towers in Philly? I live in Delaware, not sure if this would be strong enough to pick up the HD signals from Philly.

If not, is there any indoor antenna that might work?

Thanks!

I tried the SS (and other indoor antenna) & didn't receive a thing. I would definately have to go to an outdoor.

Originally posted by davisdog
dual tuner is supported...alot of the information about bugs has been in regards to the Cox systems that have been deployed...Those are using different software (passport echo) then comcast does (iguide). Very little is known about the status of iguide (and if its buggy or not)

hummm Left Coast huh? Are you with Moto?? Thanks for the input, how do we read up on iGuide (other than Comcast's web site)?

Woke up and had a message on my 6208 (DVR) and 5100 (HD) boxes this morning that "Coming in November" a new program guide will be rolled out. I'm on the PA Metro system.

As a previous poster stated, my understanding also is that the dual-tuner DVR's need the I-Guide to work properly. So it would make sense that they wouldn't be rolled out until the guide is.

I just got dishtv and wanted to get the the hdtv cbs feed from WCBS. i was told I have to get a waiver from WYOU in scranton.. I just laughed. I am located outside of their digital coverage area and barely get their analog signal im assuming since its an afilliate. lol. they do ZERO adversting in my county and im not even in their tv market.. these rules are just plain dumb. I live in the extreme northern part of bucks county. I was granted waivers to get WCBS, WNBC, WABC, in addtion the philly locals i guess because because im right on the market boundry philly/NYC. i tryed OTA anttena no luck because of the terrain can only get WLVT digital 39-1 to 39-4. these market boundries are driving me crazy since i live right at the boundry and watch would like both cities news since i my address about mid point between philly and nyc.

I'm looking to upgrade from my 6208 to a 6412. Hope the problems that seem to plague other 6412's are due to the Pioneer IPG and won't manifest themselves with I-Guide.

Originally posted by hd_addicted
I'm looking to upgrade from my 6208 to a 6412. Hope the problems that seem to plague other 6412's are due to the Pioneer IPG and won't manifest themselves with I-Guide. This is just a wild guess on my part, so take it with a grain of salt...

I bet at least some of the problems with the Pioneer guide (Passport Echo) on the 6412 are due to the fact that it wasn't really designed for Moto hardware from the ground up. Echo has been running on SA DVR boxes for over a year because Pioneer primarily designs their software for SA boxes. I bet this was just a port of that software, and ports are known to take a lot of tweaking.

Since i-Guide was designed for Moto hardware from the start and TV Guide has a lot of experience with Moto hardware, hopefully there will not be nearly as many problems.

Hopefully the i-Guide and the 6412 will be released concurrently, and I can finally make my switch to Comcast!

Originally posted by Carl Jones
hummm Left Coast huh? Are you with Moto?? Thanks for the input, how do we read up on iGuide (other than Comcast's web site)?

I'm just a comcast subscriber , but we have the local Comcast manager who talks with us about what he has in the warehouse and some buletins that he sees (he posted some picks of the 6412 he just got in)

Some good info on IGuide in this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4506272#post4506272

Comcast is using a new version of Motolora firmware also which would fix some of the issues Cox is having...also I think the comments about iguide being built for motorola from the ground up as opposed to passport/echo are correct.

Originally posted by davisdog
I'm just a comcast subscriber , but we have the local Comcast manager who talks with us about what he has in the warehouse and some buletins that he sees (he posted some picks of the 6412 he just got in)

Some good info on IGuide in this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4506272#post4506272

Comcast is using a new version of Motolora firmware also which would fix some of the issues Cox is having...also I think the comments about iguide being built for motorola from the ground up as opposed to passport/echo are correct.

Thanks for the link, very Tivo like as others have stated. I'm looking foward to it. Just curious if anyone knows, will Comcast charge a monthly premium for the 6412 vs. the 6208??

the pricing I've heard is the same


$9.95/mth....$5 is the Premium for the HD Box, $4.95 is a DVR charge

2nd Box would be the same, but you also have to of course pay the 2nd outlet charge for digital cable on top of that ($6.95 or so)

You know what, if you have a decent package, you didn't pay for the box in the first place so it's not just $5 more... it's $9.95 more. I have the gold package that costs me $79.95 so they threw in the HD for free, but now the DVR will cost me $9.95 a month and you can't record a whole lot of HD with it.

Also, did anyone experience audio dropouts with ER last night?

Faceoff, I'm from Boothwn since you asked and they still haven't got my cablecard working correctly yet. It was scheduled for 10/4only to be rescheduled to 10/11 since they didn't have any and on 10/11 and 10/12 they couldn't get it to work and I never heard back from them. I called yesterday only to hear that they had an opening next Saturday.

I'm not crazy about calling an 800 number everytime I have a local service problem.

Has anyone else been getting audio pops and crackling on NBC (WCAU) OTA?? I have been really badly for the last two nights, and my signal strength is fine. Last night on ER and tonight on Third Watch it's been just about unwatchable.

Until recently it's been fine, and I don't have that problem on any other stations.

Tom

tld, I've noticed the same audio defects on NBC WCAU. Have they changed their signal recently? I notice that their programs are now coming through as DD 5.1, but I don't remember how long that has in place.

Perhaps the audio defects are part of the growing pains of a new audio signal? Anyone?

--Philly Tim

Originally posted by Carl Jones
I tried the SS (and other indoor antenna) & didn't receive a thing. I would definately have to go to an outdoor.

Guess that rules me out down here in Bear...I've got Comcast and the DVR, only thing I'm missing out on is UPN digital.:(

Originally posted by Philly Tim
tld, I've noticed the same audio defects on NBC WCAU.

I'm glad to know it's not just me.

I'm really not sure how long they've been sending DD 5.1 either. I went to their web site last night and send them an email about it.

Tom

WHEW! I'm glad its not just me on the audio problems with NBC! I just got a new receiver and was scared it may be the problem, although I figured it was probably the local station. I am in Southern NJ and the audio on NCB only has been dropping out and crackling pretty bad. I had to turn off Third Watch last night because it was killing me. ER was bad on Thursday too. Maybe we should be calling someone? But who to call? Anyone have a direct line to HD techs in Phila for Comcast?

My cablecard installation was finally completed today. It turns out Comcast (delaware County) upgraded some software between their previous cablecard installation and mine. They apparently needed more identifiers to authorize my card to allow for all the right channels. So far the picture and quality looks great although it is just as slow on channel changing if not slowerd thant the moto box.

Originally posted by ritewinger
Maybe we should be calling someone? But who to call?
Like I said, for what it's worth, I emailed the station. That may be second only to mailing Santa in futility, but who knows.

From my experience with digital audio (I have a recording studio), digital pops like this are often the result of bad clock involved in the digital conversion process...for example a crystal in a hardware digital converter. I wouldn't be surprized if these pops are in the audio before it even gets broadcast.

Tom

Originally posted by tld
Like I said, for what it's worth, I emailed the station. That may be second only to mailing Santa in futility, but who knows.

From my experience with digital audio (I have a recording studio), digital pops like this are often the result of bad clock involved in the digital conversion process...for example a crystal in a hardware digital converter. I wouldn't be surprized if these pops are in the audio before it even gets broadcast.

Tom

Since the network feed is where the DD encoding is done, if not before that in production of the show, the most likely culprit is that the local encoder in WCAU is inducing bit errors in the audio stream.

Glad I found this thread. WCAU through Comcast SJ has been popping and crackling a lot lately (started Thursday, I think). Even Thursday's Tonight Show had some, and it's not DD5.1. Watching theough Comcast HD DVR.

WCAU also pops a short loud audio noise when switching from SD to HD (usually after the program has started). I think that noise might be my amp switching bitstreams to DD. At any rate, they have been pretty skoppy about monitoring their HD signals. Not that WPVI has been perfect there either. And we still get dropouts on KYW.

HD in this market has a long way to go. But when it's on and working right, it still beats SD hands down. It can only get better as more people add sets. And once the advertisers wake up and start doing ads in HD, you can bet the networks and stations will watch their signals more carefully.

Originally posted by hithere
Guess that rules me out down here in Bear...I've got Comcast and the DVR, only thing I'm missing out on is UPN digital.:(

Unless you want to erect an outside antenae, you (like me) are out of luck. I wish Comcast offered UPN HD too but as others have pointed out to me, ain't much offered in HD!!

Nice pic quality today on Fox's HD Eagles broadcast-

Only thing i noticed was the screen flickered numerous times throughout the game - anyone else notice that?

5-0 baby.. SWEET!

Dear WTFX,

Stop dropping to SD at the top of every hour. We know we are watching your channel. You are being annoying. It is bad enough Fox liters its sports with unneeded/unwanted graphics and sounds. Don't kill the HD joy too, even if it is very compressed and looks worse then every other HD station.

Every time I see it drop to SD I change the channel.

P.S. I have the CBS HD game of Dallas-Pitt and it looks way better then the compressed/soft stuff on Fox.

edit: Brain fart on station letters.

It's a bit tough to blame WPVI for Fox Philadelphia's logos - I assume you meant WTXF ;)

It's great the Eagles are 5-0, but they are winning too early & too convincingly... it's just not exciting this season. I keep falling asleep in the third quarter :rolleyes:

The only real feature of Tivo I consider a must-have is the Season Pass feature. I hear many encouraging things about the i-Guide and the 6428...will this new box and guide have a similar capability?

My wife sat down to watch her first show on the new HDTV, American Dreams, and sound keeps going in and out. This isn't helping me convince her this was a good purchase. Whats with NBC?

Originally posted by kjroddy
It's a bit tough to blame WPVI for Fox Philadelphia's logos - I assume you meant WTXF ;)

It's great the Eagles are 5-0, but they are winning too early & too convincingly... it's just not exciting this season. I keep falling asleep in the third quarter :rolleyes:

I'll blame who I want... thanks for the correction. Not sure why I typed that instead.

After seeing any Philly team that has been good the last decade always win by the skin of their teeth (Flyers, Sixers, or Eagles) it is nice to see easy wins for a change.

hey guys. i'm trying to search through this thread, but 158 pages is tough to sift through... anyways, wanted to know if anyone could give me a feel for what my OTA HD reception will be like. I live in Old City (2nd and Vine) and will be getting a new tv set on Tues that has a built-in HD tuner. I'm on the top (3rd) floor of my building. What's the feeling on what my OTA HD reception will be like? I'm reading some things where people in the center city area are having a tough time with receiving some/most stations. I'm not as close to the big skyscrapers, but since the big antennas are west of me, on the other side of the center city, i'm wondering what i should expect. anyways, any input would be appreciated.
btw, i haven't bought an antenna yet, but i was planning on getting an indoor and not expensive antenna to experiment with....

tia

Tia;

Go to Sears & get a Silver Sensor (inexpensive indoor antenna) to try. Sears is very good at taking it back if it doesn't work out for you. Good luck.

Meanwhile, last night WCAU-DT continued its constant crackle. Don't they realize that there is a problem?

Carl, thanks for the tip. will check out that antenna.
btw, tia = thanks in advance.... ;-)

Did anyone else have a problem with Boston Legal last night?
The second segment was SD. Those oudoor shots of Boston look great in HD.

Originally posted by chroma601
Meanwhile, last night WCAU-DT continued its constant crackle. Don't they realize that there is a problem?
I hear ya...what's their problem. American Dreams was unwatchable. I got lucky and was able to pic up New Yorks NBC last night...usually I can't, so I didn't have to resort to the analog broadcast this time.

EVERYONE here having problems with these audio pops on channel 10 should go here:

http://www.nbc10.com/contact/index.html

...and email them about it. I did once and I'm going to do it again. I just used the 'general feedback' link, as nothing else applied.

Tom

By the way...I included a link to this topic in the email I just send WCAU:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4519409

It's probably be good if others did the same.

Tom

Wonderful...it appears WCAUs feedback web application isn't even responding, so my email never went through. Anyone have any other ideas on how to get through to these folks?

Tom

Glad to hear someone else is having this problem. Just got TV and wife sat down for first time to watch American Dreams. What a disappointment.

I've had my first HD receiver and HD TV for several weeks now. WCAU 10 was fine until about a week ago. I don't know what their problem is.

WCAU does have a listed phone number: 610-688-5510. I think perhaps we should start calling.

Tom

Originally posted by Mojo97
Carl, thanks for the tip. will check out that antenna.
btw, tia = thanks in advance.... ;-)

Sorry Mojo97!! Did not know that tia meant that!! Good luck to you.

no problem. thanks again for the advice. will be going over to sears this afternoon.

Just FHI...I got an email response from WCAU channel 10 (in response to my first email from a few days ago about the audio problems). They are forwarding the imformation to the appropriate technicians. Hopefully this is a start.

Tom

I don't understand why they don't already know about it... their response should have been something to the effect of we're aware of the problem and working to resolve it. They should have a TV hooked up with an OTA antenna somewhere on site to see what they're sending out.

Originally posted by ps24eva
I just got HDTV finally.


WTF is with WPVI's subchannels??



Does anyone know the phone number of the guy in charge of 6abc's HDTV management?




Huge bump

Originally posted by Mike3
I don't understand why they don't already know about it... their response should have been something to the effect of we're aware of the problem and working to resolve it. They should have a TV hooked up with an OTA antenna somewhere on site to see what they're sending out.
I agree. It's really hard to understand. I replied to their email with a link to this thread.

I'm dumbfounded as to how they could be this unaware of their digital broadcast. I'll post if I hear anything more, but I think some phone calls to the station are in order.

Tom

At least you got a response I have sent them tons of emails about HD problems. Especially shows not starting in HD and have never gotten a response.

Will you be able to search by keyword or actor name in the new I-Guide and DVR service? If not, I think TiVo will retain a CRITICAL edge over the Comcast offering.

Personally speaking, the ability to search and have it automatically record any program with a keyword (ex. "Titanic") or actor name (ex. "Clint Eastwood"), is how I would utilize the service.

In fact, that is how I use my obsolete WebTV service - I like that it gives me that ability to set program recordings based on keyword searches.

Originally posted by zippychimp
Will you be able to search by keyword or actor name in the new I-Guide and DVR service? If not, I think TiVo will retain a CRITICAL edge over the Comcast offering. From what I can find, there is no actor/director/keyword search in the new i-Guide. This is a rather glaring omission, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it included in a future update. The Passport software and the MS Foundation software for the 6208/6412 have this feature (at least keyword, not sure about actor/director). That means the box firmware is capable and the guide data has the necessary data, so it would just be a matter of TV Guide enabling the feature.

However, I haven't seen any software for the 6208/6412 (or the SA Expolorer 8000) that can SAVE keyword searches. THAT would really make my day, but there may be some patent issues with TiVo's Wishlist feature.

Wow, not even 1 minute into MNF and tons of audio popping! I just don't understand why Comcast can't get it right...

Originally posted by adoble
Wow, not even 1 minute into MNF and tons of audio popping! I just don't understand why Comcast can't get it right... Same problems OTA too.

I lost WPVI 6.1 OTA this evening. I've been pulling it in from Princeton, NJ for over a year. Anybody else experiencing a drop in signal strength from ABC out of Philly OTA?

Audio problems on 6 & 10 last night?? What's going on?? I WILL write to 10 today as theirs has been going on for awhile now, 6 seems sporadic. Is there an engineer listening in who can explain why we are having such audio problems??

I always check here first before pointing a finger at Comcast. They're just relaying what they get. In fact, on several occasions I've bought problems to their attention and they contacted the stations and initiated fixes.

I still get too many dropouts on KYW-DT though....

Here's the contact list that I have used in the past for engineering contacts at the main Philadelphia DTV stations.

I would recommend a telephone call directed to the broadcast engineering department rather than an email in these cases! (the telephone numbers below are the main stations numbers)

KYW-DT (CBS)/WPSG-DT (UPN) - Jim Chase
215-238-4800 (KYW)
215-238-4700 (WPSG)

WPVI-DT (ABC) - Jim Gilbert
215-878-9700

WCAU-DT (NBC)/WPPX-DT (PAX) - Tim O'Sullivan
610-668-5510

WHYY-DT (PBS) - unknown
215-351-1200

WPHL-DT (WB) - Lance
215-878-1700

WTXF-DT (FOX) - Dru Stuart or Diane Crack
215-925-2929

This list is a little old so some contacts may have changed.

*Updates are welcome!!!!!!*.

Joe

hey all, got a question for ya. i'm receiving a new tv today that has a build-in HD tuner. I subscribe to basic Comcast cable service (i have an analog STB, which i don't even use). It's my understanding that the HD tuner in my tv should receive any unscrambled digital signals (including HD) and display them ok. Should i expect with my current service (analog) to be able to receive unscrambled digital signals? I guess, i'm assuming comcast broadcast digital and analog signals at the same time and it just depends on what STB you have (digital or analog) to tune in the appropriate channels.
Also, can i expect the network stations to be coming in as unscrambled HD?
i bought an indoor antenna to test out the OTA HD signals, but was wondering what i could expect through cable...

thx

Your TV should receive the analog cable channels but probably will not receive the digital cable channels, including the HD channels. You'll need a cable box with HD capability. It's more than a question of scambling, it a question of modulation format. The digital channels, including HD, are modulated using QAM, and I don't think many TVs are equipped to handle that format.

the tv i'm getting (any minute now!) is a mitsubishi wd52725. it's a dlp set with a cablecard slot and built-in hd tuner. over in the rear projection forum, i've read some posts where people said that this set can receive unscrambled digital signals through cable. that's the only reason why i asked the question. i've seen the QAM acronym before, but don't really understand what it is. i guess i could figure it out if i looked into it more... ;-)
anyways, i should have a definitive answer to the question once the tv is setup. but, i guess i won't expect anything, so if i do get some digital (or even HD) channels, it will be a pleasant bonus...
upgrading to full digital+hd service is on my to-do list, though, anyways.

Anyone here live in the Marshallton/West Bradford PA area?

I am having a new house built there and I have contacted Comcast to see what is available. The say "everything", but I question if that is just a standard response.

Currently I have internet service and a 5100 to be replaced by comcasts HD PVR Thursday.

JT

The cable card should handle the QAM. Comcast might be able to address the cable card so you can receive HD. If Comcast offered an HD-only package, I'd take it. I rarely visit the SD channels anymore.

yeah, i believe with the cablecard, i can receive everything, irrespective if it's naturally scrambled or not. what i'm wondering about is without the cablecard, with just the cable input to the tv...

Without the cablecard, you'll get only the analog channels, channels two through seventy-something.

I thought "basic digital" stations HAD to be provided along with the basic subscription... so if you have a qam tuner, you could get them.

Originally posted by JTFX6552
Anyone here live in the Marshallton/West Bradford PA area?

I am having a new house built there and I have contacted Comcast to see what is available. The say "everything", but I question if that is just a standard response.

Currently I have internet service and a 5100 to be replaced by comcasts HD PVR Thursday.

JT

I'm in Blue Bell. If you're getting a DCT6208 (HD PVR) and you're getting digital cable then you can get "everything", HD is the only important part, the rest (SD) is just filler. You have to subscribe to the movie channels to get them in HD.

I have the xbr960 with cablecard. Before the cable card I could pick up the networks, and inhd1&2. Your TV should tune them with auto-tune, but so you know CBS was something like 81.2 or 82.1. I don't remember where they all were, but their all around the 80s or so. I couldn't pick up digital channels or premiums. With the cablecard I get all the channels mapped to their exact location on the cablebox, but the cablecard channel changing is kind of slow. It is an extra tuner so that's nice with my single tuner DVR.

Reply to hd_addicted saying that Comcast transmits all local HD programming.

Comcast does not have an HD channel for Channel 57. They do have Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, WHYY and Channel 17 (WPHL).

I don't know whether Channel 57 has a DTV channel.

I didn't say that.
WPSG, UPN 57, does broadcast HD but Comcast doesn't carry it.

I called Comcast about UPN 57, and the CSR was unaware that they had a digital signal. I then tried to call UPN to let them know that, but got lost in a morass of voicemail and incorrect forwarding.

Maybe someday...

FWIW... I tested the LG-LST3510A a while back. It has a built in QAM (digital cable) tuner. I got all of the Philly locals (from Comcast analog cable hookup) digitally (HD).

No digital tier/HD subscription, no cablecard.

Originally posted by Mojo97
yeah, i believe with the cablecard, i can receive everything, irrespective if it's naturally scrambled or not. what i'm wondering about is without the cablecard, with just the cable input to the tv...

Comcast does not encrypt off-air digital channels. You will be able to tune these channels without (or with) a CableCARD installed in your TV. Of course, without a CableCARD you will need to have the TV scan all channels in order to find what you're looking for.

thx. i did indeed find some unencrypted digital channels in the lineup. espn news and cbs were the 2 that i noticed right away. haven't been able to tell if HD is included in their broadcast. also searching for FOX in HD so i can watch some Eagles games! :D

i probably will just go ahead and get a cablecard or STB in the near future anyways, though.

so, anyone know what the channel is for HD Fox on comcast? That is, without a STB. For instance, i found HD CBS on 116-2.

thx

I just emailed WCAU channel 10 again today. Just as it's been for the last week, the their audio was popping and dropping out like madlast night.

Damn...how long is this going to go on??

Tom

As I said in my post yesterday, a telephone call works much better than email. It's easy for email to get mis-directed or ignored. Check my post for their phone # and broadcast engineer contact name.

Joe

Originally posted by tld
I just emailed WCAU channel 10 again today. Just as it's been for the last week, the their audio was popping and dropping out like madlast night.

Damn...how long is this going to go on??

Tom

Last night's game was UNWATCHABLE. Worse I have ever seen because of the problems. I had to switch to standard def because of the constant problems during the game - jump cuts to action that occurred a few seconds earlier, constantly going back and forth from "black bars" down the side and standard - def to widescreen HD, audio drop outs, picture noise, etc. Also, it was annoying that every hour - on the top of the hour - when they put up the Fox 29 station id - they would degrade the picture down to standard def and then after the station id blurb, pop it back out to wide HD.

Interestingly enough, the HD feed seemed almost 3 - 4 full seconds behind regular FOX. Don't know why that is.

Anyone else see problems with this game? I live in Souderton, PA.

HD feed is always behind, not normally 3-4, more like 2.

Mojo it's interesting that you found CBS at 118, I found it at 82.1 I think and ABC was 79.1 or something like that. Fox was 118.1 for me. Maybe it varies from area to area... I'm in Boothwyn.

Originally posted by zippychimp
Last night's game was UNWATCHABLE.
...
Anyone else see problems with this game?
I think EVERYONE had problems with this game. Check the active thread in the programming forum. The screen studders/jumps was a nationwide problem.

Jumping back to SD at the top of the hour for the WTXF Station ID was the least of the problems last night. WTXF just must not have the capability to overlay their own graphics on an HD feed. I believe stations are required (by the FCC) to identify themselves periodically. (I suspect every hour). Amateur radio operators are required to identify their call sign in intervals not exceeding 10 minutes, for instance. So without the equipment to overlay HD (which I suspect is the case), this jump back to SD for Identification is something we will have to live with...

I didn't particularly have a picture noise/audio problem except during a studder/jump... (I was watching OTA)

Last nights game was terrible. It was so bad that I had to watch it in SD. I don't know if it is a national feed problem though. I had the same problem with the Eagles game Sunday. I had to watch that in SD as well. Everytime the Eagles ofense was on a drive, my picture would freeze up. Dropouts were terrible. Someone needs to help them out over there!

Read the thread about game 6 in the programming forum... There were many NATIONAL feed issues last night... Not saying there weren't local ones as well... There are hundreds of posts about last nights game from all over the country...

do any of you know what Comcast is currently giving out for a digital HD STB? Does the box have HDMI output? I decided to take the plunge and am getting it on Friday. I'm going to assume that the Comcast guy won't have any sort of decent cables, so i'd like to be prepared with everything i need for the best video and audio...

thx

Comcast uses different systems in the area. Here in Cherry Hill, we're on Sci-Atlanta. Other parts of the region use Motorola.

Mojo97 asks what Comcast gives subscribers for an HD box.

In Chester County, PA and probably parts of Delaware too, it is a Motorola DCT 6208. It is a single tuner unit. RF bypass is not enabled. Has a Smart Card slot that is not used.

It is a DVI out, component out, dig coax out to carry 5.1 audio to a surround system, red/white/yellow out (whatever that's called), S Vid out and regular old cable out.

No HDMI but you can buy a pretty expensive DVI to HDMI adapter, which will carry vid only to your TV set. This frees up DVI for another device. I have not tried that. I just use DVI to our Sams. HLP4663 TV set and component cables for our DVD player.

Comcast actually uses good quality cables. I've never had any problems with them.

I don't know if they'll provide DVI or HDMI. My old 6200 was installed with component cables (component only TV). I self installed my 6208 to my PJ and already had 30' DVI and component cables, as I didn't think Comcast was gonna go that far!

You can always call and ask if they'll provide them... my guess is they will, but probably a maximum in 6' length.

Reply to DaveInBerlinNJ re freebie cables from Comcast. Our local office won't supply DVI or HDMI cables. They do provide a variety of other cables including a dig coax and dig optical

I could not get comcast to supply a DVI or Firewire cable for my 6208 they said they will only supply Component

Well, the NFL Network game of the week in HD was supposed to be on INHD2 last night, but the channel wouldn't even come in..

Anyone with comments on that?

Plus, noticed a lot of audio issues with NBC 10 during Law & Order.

Got a STB message from Comcast:

"New Guide to debut in December."

Just last week they said November.

All kinds of audio problems last night on NBC. Second episode of WW didn't start in HD until after commercial break, then the audio started to act up. Don't know if it was a Comcast problem or an NBC10 problem.

I watched both games last night, and the Yankees game looked great (except for the on-the-hour switch to SD for WTXF station identification), but the Astros/Cards game looked more like the old Fox Widescreen (16:9, 480p).

Anybody else see it this way?

Also, at the Trenton Comcast office I received blank stares and shrugged shoulders when I asked about Moto 6412 and new IGuide. I guess we can just hope for December delivery for both, as posted above.

Originally posted by hd_addicted
All kinds of audio problems last night on NBC. Second episode of WW didn't start in HD until after commercial break, then the audio started to act up. Don't know if it was a Comcast problem or an NBC10 problem.
Both of these issues occurred on the OTA broadcast as well...

Yea, my OTA WCAU 10 had all sorts of audio problems again, and didn't start in HD just as you described. They replied to my email from the other day and did in fact say they are working on it...which is entirely possible seeing as it got worse ;)

Oh, and thanks for those phone numbers Joe! If the problems continue, I'll spring for the toll call and see how it goes.

Tom

Re: WCAU-DT problem

I just spoke to the engineer and the audio issue is a problem with the encoder. They are waiting for a delivery and they hope to have the problem fixed within a day or two.

Originally posted by jcardani
Re: WCAU-DT problem

I just spoke to the engineer and the audio issue is a problem with the encoder. They are waiting for a delivery and they hope to have the problem fixed within a day or two.
Excellent! Thanks for making the call and keeping us updated.

In their defence, at least they have good signal strength. I'm actually much closer to NY than Philly (30 miles line of sight vs about 50 to Philly) and I can almost never get NY NBC 4-1 at all.

Tom

Re NFL Game of the Week, I am on my lunch hour and callingComcast to complain. This is not the first time that this particular show could not be tuned in. I will report that I am not the only person and that the issue afftects both Montgomery and Chester Counties.

Add Delaware County (Drexel Hill) to the list of locations which couldn't get the game of the week last night.

On a different matter, I don't want to read the "Lost" thread in programming because I haven't seen last night's episode yet, except for the first minute or two which had horrible audio drop out problems. Can anyone comment on these problems with ABC-6 through Comcast last night without spoiling what happened? Will I be able to watch? I guess in the future I'm going to have to start recording SD versions.

I have an address for Comcast's tech dept, which a telephone said could be used for complaining about the service. 4008 North DuPont Hwy, New Castle 19720, Attention: Technical Department.

But for the problem with NFL Game of the Week, the corporate dept may be the one to complain to. She explained that it's blacked out, probably because it appears on a "lower channel." And in fact it does appear on NFL Network. I don't know whether that is an issue between INHD and NFL whereby INHD agreed not to transmit that show in places on cable systems that have NFL Network in is the lineup, but I will bet that this is exactly the issue. Maybe the new menu will include a feature that tells us of a blackout so that we can stop surfing to blacked out channels.

I had the same "Lost" audio problem. It only lasted a couple of minutes and then cleared up for the rest of the show. I've noticed the same audio problem at the beginning of last MNF, it cleared up after a couple of minutes also.

Re audio, I surfed to West Wing during the inning breaks in the Red Sox game.

The audio skips when heard through a surround system made the show unlistenable and I am a person who will listen to barely audible baseball game broadcasts in my car.

But in my car the static doesn't sound like it will damage the speakers.

The audio skips and noises from the HDTV feed do sound like they could be damage-inducing (don't know whether they really are). The Fox baseball feed was not perfect, but none of the sounds were ear piercing like some of those emitted by the NBC broadcast.

This tech may not be quite ready for prime time.

The same audio problem at the beginning of Lost happened again this week. But as mentioned above, it only lasted 2 or 3 minutes this time. There were several small problems with the picture as well that I noticed in the second half of the show.

OTA ????
Without reading 160 pages, can someone tell me if every network out of Philly is at full power HD now.
I've been picking up Baltimore for a several years since they were ahead of the curve and troublefree. However, the last two weeks I've had to watch the Eagles in SD beacuse the Redskins were in HD in their market. I don't have a rotor so I though I might make a trip to the roof and turn the antenna.

Well, I posted about the OTA WCAU-DT problems a WEEK ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4504736#post4504736

I am VERY happy to know others have seen this problem, and I am happy that NBC is working on a solution. It's unfortunate they are having so many problems. For those who remember, their video encoder was bad at the start of the olympics also. Are the encoders really expensive? Should they have a spare on hand or are they too expensive?

I am watching apprentice now, and the problem is as bad as ever.

Glad they are working on it, but a WEEK? OTA analog people would NOT tolerate a week of bad audio.

Lee

Just wanted to give all of the locals information on my Cablecard install. I had it installed on my Panasonic plasma a few weeks ago and the thing is working great! IT did take three trips from a tech and a new card, which finally did the trick, but my point is, is that it is working properly. I do not get the guide or on demand as expected, but the channels are labeled, which was a bonus I was not expecting. PIP does work, which I knew would although Sound and Vision reported this month that PIP will no work. You cannot use PIP on two HD channels though. Overall I would recommend Cablecard if you do not need the guide or On Demand. I personally would rather rent the DVD and I do miss the guide, but it's not worth the hassle trying to use PIP and other functions. I'm looking forward to getting a Cablecard on my basement tv when I finally get it finished, and buy a new tv!

BTW, I can still use my VCR by hooking up the cable to the vcr. Just can't tape HD, which wouldn't matter anyway. Any questions just ask! Also, my cablecard is a motorola.

Originally posted by miatasm
iGuide, currently won't be until the middle of this month sometime...

I read some are getting messages from Comcast that iGuide will be ready by 11/1 (therefore ready for the 6412). In Delaware, I have not received that message. Can someone enlighten me, will the iGuide and the 6412 be available 11/1?

Also, will/does the 6412 have an HDMI connection AND a DVI??

As I'm sure you noticed, the latest red message on our Comcast Digital Cable Boxes say the new guides have been delayed yet AGAIN. It says now to expect the new guide sometime in DECEMBER.

This keeps getting pushed back another month, it seems!

The 6412 has one DVI (single not dual) connector and two 1394 interfaces.
No HDMI. So no PIP in HD. :)

Originally posted by Joe_R
OTA ????
Without reading 160 pages, can someone tell me if every network out of Philly is at full power HD now.

I can't tell you which are at full power and which are not. However, I'm in central NJ (the middle of Somerset county) about 50 miles line of sight from Philly. The only stations I have any problems signal strength wise are FOX 29 and PBS 12. CBS, NBC, ABC, WB, and UPN are all quite strong. I have a Radio Shack 120" VHF/UHF combo antenna on my roof with a rotor and a Channel Master Titon 7777 mast mount preamp. 50 miles is pretty far, and I have a huge ash tree about 30 feet from the antenna that is exactly between it and Philly.

I'm only 30 miles from NY, but in general I get Philly stations better.

Tom

Originally posted by zippychimp
As I'm sure you noticed, the latest red message on our Comcast Digital Cable Boxes say the new guides have been delayed yet AGAIN. It says now to expect the new guide sometime in DECEMBER.

This keeps getting pushed back another month, it seems! I'm on the Center City system, and I haven't received an updated message about the i-Guide either. The only message I have is from 10/18, and it says it's "coming soon."

Perhaps certain systems are ready (with installing the extra equipment needed for i-Guide, etc) for Nov 1 and others aren't. I guess we'll find out soon.

They should rename it the "No Guide" - b/c that's when we'll get it!

NEVER! :-)

Thanks for your responses. That's too bad. I've got a DVHS but WAY too difficult to time shift and when you do, problematic at best. So, I'm still relagated to copying SD. Looks like by the time this thing is out there will not be much left to record for this year!! I was hoping for HDMI as well. Alas, we'll wait for that too. It's fun being on the "bleeding edge" of technology isn't it??

All this is assuming Comcast will not release the 6412 until iGuide is available. Is that a correct assumption?

This is really strange. Tonight my HD reveiver didn't recognize WCAU channel 10 at all, as 10-1 that is. When I entered it's actual UHF frequency (67) I get it, but it shows as 67-1, as though WCAU isn't properly sending identification data or something. Really odd.

I'm waiting to see if there's any improvement in the audio.

Tom

Originally posted by tld
I can't tell you which are at full power and which are not. However, I'm in central NJ (the middle of Somerset county) about 50 miles line of sight from Philly. The only stations I have any problems signal strength wise are FOX 29 and PBS 12. CBS, NBC, ABC, WB, and UPN are all quite strong. I have a Radio Shack 120" VHF/UHF combo antenna on my roof with a rotor and a Channel Master Titon 7777 mast mount preamp. 50 miles is pretty far, and I have a huge ash tree about 30 feet from the antenna that is exactly between it and Philly.

I'm only 30 miles from NY, but in general I get Philly stations better.

Tom
Thanks. I'm further from Baltimore but because of the terrain, Philly was more of a challenge. Remembering back, I received CBS and some others with no issues. I'm mostly concerned with FOX, of course, because of the Eagles. Figures they'd be the one I can't pick up. We'll see tomorrow, I suppose.

According to CSN it is supposed to be in HD, Never saw a hockey game in HD before. someone else watching please tell me that is not HD? it can not be

said it was HD but looked terrible...

NBC 10-1 was probably tinkering with their encoder -- perhaps they installed the replacement unit?

The audio is no longer DD5.1 as of tonight, at least for the time being, so those annoying artifacts are absent.

Unless they just changed the audio on the old encoder and the replacement is not here yet?

--Philly Tim

Originally posted by Carl Jones

All this is assuming Comcast will not release the 6412 until iGuide is available. Is that a correct assumption?

No. 6412, even though it is the same type of guide interface, it is a completely different beast underneath...it could be before, after, or at the same time.

Third Watch was actually watchable last night. There were still dropouts but no cracking noise. And the hockey game was in HD. I watched it just to see how good it would look since no Flyers, and I thought it looked pretty good. I didn't have any complaints about it.

Is anyone else having the same odd behavior with WCAU 10 OTA, where it isn't identified as 10-1?? I still can only get it using it's VHF chennal 67, and it shows as 67-1 rather than 10-1.

Also, the time of day they're broadcasting it way off. In addition, my receiver takes two tries before it can reveive it, and then after tuning to it, take two tries to change to any other station. Really weird stuff.

Like all HDTV oddities, my big concern is ensuring that my receiver isn't acting up (only about the 1000th time I've gone through that), so I'd love to find out if anyone else is experiencing this sort of stuff.

At least the audio wasn't popping last night though.

Tom

Yes, Tom, I am also getting similar odd results, so the problem is the signal, not your STB.

--Philly Tim

Ahh...thanks a lot Tim. Good to know. I've also noticed that the channel identification causes some other odd things. For example, when I change from NBC (as 67-1) to another channel, occasionally it will cause the other channel to be recognized by it's UHF channel as well. However, this corrects itself the next time I go to that station using the UHF number. Odd stuff.

But hey...at least I can get it and the audio is finally tolerable.

Tom

Originally posted by dbrouda
No. 6412, even though it is the same type of guide interface, it is a completely different beast underneath...it could be before, after, or at the same time.

Can someone help me figure out how to get to local cable management?? Their customer service folks are masters at not letting your calls go farther. I'm trying to "push the system" & get a 6412 box and so far it's just me that's getting pushed. Any advice? I hear from reliable?? sources, the 6412 IS out there.

I tried this weekend to pickup Fox Phila. for the Eagles game. No dice. I can get ABC/CBS/NBC but no Fox.

Why? WTXF is at full power, however, their antenna is only 500ft. vs. >1,000ft for CBS/NBC/ABC. That's why people like me, on the fringe, can't pick them up. They are ~two years out before increasing the height of the antenna. Looks like Comcast is my only option.

Originally posted by Joe_R
I tried this weekend to pickup Fox Phila. for the Eagles game. No dice. I can get ABC/CBS/NBC but no Fox.

Why? WTXF is at full power, however, their antenna is only 500ft. vs. >1,000ft for CBS/NBC/ABC. That's why people like me, on the fringe, can't pick them up. They are ~two years out before increasing the height of the antenna. Looks like Comcast is my only option.

Yep. Pull out the checkbook!!