Added Update to Delaware Thread regarding 2nd Tuner Issue

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5485429#post5485429

hi, im from the central jersey, just want to know what the local channel number is for csn philadelphia, just hoping to catch the sixers/pacers game tonight. thanks

Originally posted by quartrj
The only thing that is keeping me calm is that COMCAST has been crediting my account every month when I call.

How much have they been crediting your account? I asked for a credit before but they only credited me for wasting my time by sending 5 different service calls without fixing the problem even though they knew the problem was not with my wiring.

Guys, it does not look good for the addition of TNT-HD and UPN at this time. I have been told not to expect them by 4/24 as their is NO bandwidth to put them in this region. All of the equipment is in place to add them though. The good news is that once they are added, it looks like a third will be added as well. THis may not be until June however. Hopefully, that will not come to pass but the bandwidth issue seems to be a real problem. BTW, the third is NOT HD Net or Universal HD. That leaves one other. The digital simulcast seems to be the culprit to me.

this is total bull, they can add channels like the jewelery channel and other crap channels, but can't add even one HD channel (TNTHD preferrably). They continue to put channels that nobody watches at full bandwidth instead of down converting them to make room for HD.....CRAP...thats all it is

We still have analog premiums in Harrisburg. To make room for three HD channels, my guess is that analog premiums would have to go. Hopefully, the third HD channel is ESPN2. I would like to see Universal added.

Is anyone getting TNT by end of april?

It does not look like it in the Philly area. Some systems around the country will though, as early as 4/24. I have suggested that they dump the all digital simulcast until they are ready to dump analog altogether as this is what is eating up the bandwidth. THey are also trying to dump certain analog channels but are running into contractual issues. Hopefully, a solution will be found before June.

How about eliminating the 5-10 Digital PPVs, anyone with digital cable has ondemand which has all the same movies , that would free up enough bandwidth for 3 HD channels easily

We have no more bandwidth? Are you kidding me? We already have less digital channels than all of the Ex-ATT areas and we can't even add 1 HD channel?

That is disappointing news to say the least. Unacceptable.

I have no idea what they can possibly do to add more.

Originally posted by JWhip
It does not look like it in the Philly area. Some systems around the country will though, as early as 4/24. I have suggested that they dump the all digital simulcast until they are ready to dump analog altogether as this is what is eating up the bandwidth. THey are also trying to dump certain analog channels but are running into contractual issues. Hopefully, a solution will be found before June.
They won't wait that long, because the Locals will be in Analog for a long time. But, they could wait until they eliminate the rest of the Analog channels, which supposedly was set for 1.5 years from now, last I heard. Is that still the plan?

Originally posted by QZ1
Ok, so I notice that these problem channels are all over 750MHz, I gather that they probably never used those freq. before. I see that ABC, NBC, and CBS are all in a row and poor, but then FOX and WB are fine, then PBS is poor. Does anyone know if FOX and WB are +750MHz?

I still wonder why it is just Tuner 2 though. As much as we discuss this, though, it is still up to them to fix it. I'd just like to add that I'm 100% sure this is a Comcast issue and NOT a Motorola issue (I've said this before, but why not say it again?). I'm in Center City. I used to tune QAM channels in the clear without any problems. The day they started digital simulcasting and moved around some of the HD channels, I began to have dropouts on ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS - the magic 4. FOX and WB continue to be perfect to this day.

Now, on my QAM tuner, the drops were every few seconds, so those four channels were unwatchable. Comcast refused to help me since I didn't subscribe to their HD, so I did that. I got a 5100 box, not the one most of you guys have, but I have the same problems with it that you're having on your second tuner - frequent, annoying (but not unwatchable) pixelation and drops on CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS - again, FOX and WB are perfect.

Your explanation of this actually makes sense, but I'm not sure about the +750MHz thing. Either way - THIS IS A COMCAST ISSUE. I keep trying to tell them this, but I can't get in touch with anyone competent enough to understand my whole story. But I'm positive it's a problem on their end.

It's disappointing news to hear new HD is being delayed, especially when I think the digital simulcasts begun two months ago which has precipitated our 2nd. tuner problem is also a major contributor to HD channel delay. Come on Comcast, there ARE competitors out there & they are NOT getting weaker!!

I'm not sure what else Comcast could do for bandwidth - i'm now down in DE on the Wilmington system - and we have ZERO premium channels on analog.

My old system, Montgomery County, PA had 7 of them -

So could there be a chance Wilmington will get some new channels?

Here in south jersey we have wpix from new york, i am sure that could be eliminated since most of the time it is blacked out anyway

It amazes me we have 9 PPV channels on Comcast that we don't need. 502, 516-523. Morons, you need one PPV for special events and then a few for adult linears.

That bandwidth could be had for TNT if they insist on multicasting analog channels on digital spectrum.

Originally posted by drpepper
Again, I call Comcast (810am 4/15/05)..again I get csr that just tries to "sell" their service & reads off cue cards....

Comcast states that in order to view their digital channels ( sd or hd) you need to subscribe to their digital service. The newer tvs may have the ability to view but only after you pay for the "extra" service.

IS THIS TRUE??? Are there people that can view the digitals (sd or hd) that don't have the digital service? Is this is true, is this like a "bonus" where it tech. is not supossed to happen?

The problem here is two-fold: confusing terminology and intentionally misleading marketing.

When you say 'digital channels', Comcast hears "Channels that are broadcast digitally' which does require digital TV service in some capacity. For example, if you have standard/extended analog service, and you want to get BBC America...you need digital service, because that's the only package that offers it through Comcast. But the channel per se isn't digital, it's delivered digitally (subtle but important difference). The same applies for HD channels.

The difference is, cable companies are required to broadcast the major affiliates HD signal 'in the clear'. ABC, PBS, CBS and NBC must broadcast over the open-air, and the cable companies are required to transmit them unencoded...but that doesn't mean they have to tell you how to receive those channels or advertise how to get the service without paying them additional money.

If you want basic HD channel offerings, you need a TV with a QAM tuner (which all cablecard enabled TVs have). The QAM tuner will decode any channels that are not encrypted. What this won't get you are channels like HBO HD or Discovery HD (the former requiring a subscription to HBO). INHD 1/2 are probably supposed to be exclusives, but Comcast doesn't lock them down. Prior to March, there were some other channels we got that weren't encoded, like the International Channel and others.

There are, essentially, three routes to take:

1) QAM tuner: Merely plug your TV in to an analog line and scan. You will get basic HD channels and probably a few unecrypted Digital channels. You will get no features on top of that.

2) Set-top box: you request digital service, and then the enhancement to digital, HDTV. You get the DVR functionality (though I don't know if it works with HDTV chanels), OnDemand, Comcast's TV Guide and PPV. You must use their box for i t work.

3) Cablecard: Purchased the digital service and HDTV service and then scan using the cablecard. You still don't get the DVR, OnDemand and PPV, but you get a better selection of channels (as if you had the set-top box) and your TV may be able to read some data for the TV Guide.

An upcoming Cablecard 2.0 standard is in the works, which will offer the various features of a set-top box, minus the DVR function. Both options 2 and 3 cost (for me) an additional $25 a month or so, which simply isn't worth it, IMHO.

Originally posted by jeepmatt
I'm not sure what else Comcast could do for bandwidth - i'm now down in DE on the Wilmington system - and we have ZERO premium channels on analog.

My old system, Montgomery County, PA had 7 of them -

So could there be a chance Wilmington will get some new channels?

??? I thought HBO was still on channel 14 for non box folks??

I'm a producer working for a Philly TV station, interested in doing a story on problems with Comcast HDTV service-dropouts and pixelation, a failure on Comcast's part to address the problems.

Anyone have any idea how wide spread these problems are? and would you be willing to talk about them on camera?

Originally posted by WizarDru
The difference is, cable companies are required to broadcast the major affiliates HD signal 'in the clear'. ABC, PBS, CBS and NBC must broadcast over the open-air, and the cable companies are required to transmit them unencoded...but that doesn't mean they have to tell you how to receive those channels or advertise how to get the service without paying them additional money.

They DO NOT have to transmit them unencoded. There is no FCC rule that says this. It only says they must carry them. I live near Lancaster and Blue Ridge Communications is the cable provider and they encrypt ALL HD channels and also make you subscribe to the extended basic and digital basic just to get the local HD channels.

Originally posted by wdaugh
... a failure on Comcast's part to address the problems.

I think most of the problems, picture freezing, pixelation, tiling, audio dropouts,
are caused by the poorly designed Motorola boxes. I can tell
this because when I hit replay, the previously botched scenes are
replayed perfectly. Not all dropouts are fixed via replay, but the vast
majority are (at least in my experience).

Is Motorola working on this problem? At least part of the PVR design was
done at the Motorola facility in Horsham. You can also go to
dvr no spaces chatter no spaces dot com to get more information.

hd_addicted:

Can you tell me which forum/thread at **********.com discusses the 2nd tuner problem?

Check out the FAQ and Bugs and Workarounds.

Although many problems such as picture freezing, pixelation,
tiling, audio dropouts, may be outside the direct control of Comcast, other
problems such as lockups and 2nd tuner problems may be able to be
fixed with firmware upgrades or higher signal levels.

This assumes that Comcast has the corporate initiative and technical
expertise to address these problems. Comcast may wonder why they
lose market share to the satellites, this is why. Comcast corporate officers
that are more interested in short term profits by focusing on internet
access and VOD and ignoring their cable customer base, will wake up one
day to find that base gone.

Sorry for the rant.

There is INTENSE pressure from corporate in Philly to get TNT on and soon. Stay tuned!

Originally posted by JWhip
There is INTENSE pressure from corporate in Philly to get TNT on and soon. Stay tuned!

I'm not surprised. I'm sure they'd like it if the Sixers playoff games could be seen in HD since they own them.

Originally posted by wdaugh
I'm a producer working for a Philly TV station, interested in doing a story on problems with Comcast HDTV service-dropouts and pixelation, a failure on Comcast's part to address the problems.

Anyone have any idea how wide spread these problems are? and would you be willing to talk about them on camera?

This issue appears only to be in Delaware & selected areas of the Philly market. This issue appears to have coincided with Comcast's start of digital simulcast for some analog channels & effects all our local HD channels except FOX & the WB. National HD broadcasts are not effected, such as ESPN or HBO HD as examples.

I don't believe anyone can say for certain Comcast ISN'T addressing the problem (or is). We don't know. To my knowledge, there hasn't been any public acknowledgment of this issue, much less a consistent statement from Comcast employees as to what the problem is or what is being done to correct it. This forum is used mainly as a venue for those of us who care, an opportunity to vent or gather innuendo & rumor that might glean insight as to 1) what is the problem?, 2) hoping someone from Comcast is lurking here who can effect change, and 3) an honest to God light at the end of the tunnel reported here for those of us affected.

To put this in perspective though, if indeed you represent a public forum such as a TV studio, this issue ONLY effects the 2nd. tuner of a two tuner DVR (the only one out there for HD is this Motorola 6412 for Cable...not available for OTA or satellite users). So Comcast users effected by this will be REALLY small.

So we will yell & scream about this until it's fixed BUT we are damned glad to have the ability to record HD AND watch another channel. Other solutions pale in comparison at this point.

What this situation WILL lead to is a mass exodus from Comcast when their competitors catch up and they WILL catch up.

Originally posted by hd_addicted
I think most of the problems, picture freezing, pixelation, tiling, audio dropouts,
are caused by the poorly designed Motorola boxes. Grrr... read my post from yesterday. THIS IS NOT A MOTOROLA PROBLEM. It happens even if you use a non-Motorola QAM tuner. It's Comcast, Comcast, f***ing Comcast.

I had the problem for about 3 months and it was eventually fixed. I was credited after asking for a credit.

Originally posted by Carl Jones
To put this in perspective though, if indeed you represent a public forum such as a TV studio, this issue ONLY effects the 2nd. tuner of a two tuner DVR (the only one out there for HD is this Motorola 6412 for Cable...not available for OTA or satellite users). So Comcast users effected by this will be REALLY small. See, this is what I want to keep hammering away at. It's NOT just a second tuner problem on the 6412. It affects the only tuner of the 5100, as well as other QAM tuners I've tried (these used to allow me to tune the broadcast networks without a Comcast box). This is a serious problem on Comcast's end (NOT a hardware problem) that they basically have refused to address. Depending on the day and the person you talk to, the problem either doesn't exist, is being worked on, or is a Motorola problem. All three statements are false, I'm afraid, including the second.

Originally posted by Mike3
I had the problem for about 3 months and it was eventually fixed. I was credited after asking for a credit.

How was it fixed?

Originally posted by AndyJ682
Grrr... read my post from yesterday. THIS IS NOT A MOTOROLA PROBLEM. It happens even if you use a non-Motorola QAM tuner. It's Comcast, Comcast, f**ing Comcast.

Read my post more carefully. The key word (in my experience) is "most".
If, when the Replay button is hit and the scenes are replayed without any
problems, it HAS TO BE A MOTOROLA problem. If the problems are repeated
when replayed, it is not necessarily a motorola problem, it could be Comcast.

Originally posted by hd_addicted
Read my post more carefully. The key word (in my experience) is "most".
If, when the Replay button is hit and the scenes are replayed without any
problems, it HAS TO BE A MOTOROLA problem. If the problems are repeated
when replayed, it is not necessarily a motorola problem, it could be Comcast. Yep, I misread. In that case, obviously, the actual TS isn't corrupted. In my case, there's a problem with the TS that actually gets to the box.

I live in Center City and have the same issues.

I called Comcast for a tech to come out look at my setup
to make sure it wasn't an issue with my signal coming in.

He said my signal was good, and acknowledged it was a strictly
a Comcast issue from outside my home.

When I called Comcast customer support to let them know I was paying
for a service that they are providing in a less that satisfactory manner,
and that their own technician stated was strictly Comcast's fault,
she basically told me I could cancel my HDTV service, or suffer with it.

Which, as has been noted in the previous excellent summary by Carl,
I chose to suffer with it, because there isn't really anything better
for the price at the moment.

But boy, when there is, Comcast will reap what they have sown, for sure.

Originally posted by shepler76
They DO NOT have to transmit them unencoded. There is no FCC rule that says this. It only says they must carry them. I live near Lancaster and Blue Ridge Communications is the cable provider and they encrypt ALL HD channels and also make you subscribe to the extended basic and digital basic just to get the local HD channels.

That's almost correct. They are not required to transmit them unencrypted, although many cable companies have chosen to implement it that way for simplicity. They are required to make local OTA HD available on the lowest tier price plan corresponding to their analog equivalents. That may indeed require a settop or cable card.

In other words, they shouldn't be able to upgrade to a digital package that costs more than you would pay for the most basic analog service. I'm not sure about the settop box rental, which may be legit additional cost (as long as its reasonable, whatever that means). For example, I think Comcast charges an additional $5/month to add local HD if you don't have your own digital QAM receiver. (Comcast generally transmits local HD unencrypted.)

In a couple of years (or decades), when cable companies do away with analog broadcasting, making your legacy TV's built-in tuner obsolete, using a converter box will be the only way to get any cable. Back to the future, just like the early days of cable. The FCC's hope is that most people will have migrated to HD so that going cold turkey will be relatively painless. And even then politics might lead them to might mandate "free" converters for the most basic service.

If Blue Ridge is doing what you describe, someone should file an FCC complaint.

Originally posted by maddogFool
That's almost correct. They are not required to transmit them unencrypted, although many cable companies have chosen to implement it that way for simplicity. They are required to make local OTA HD available on the lowest tier price plan corresponding to their analog equivalents. That may indeed require a settop or cable card.

If Blue Ridge is doing what you describe, someone should file an FCC complaint.

Thanks for the info. I currently have D* with all the HD channels, so not that big a deal right now anyway since Blue Ridge only offers 2 more HD channles than I get now. Just for the heck of it I might just contact the FCC and see what they say

Thanks Again

SO; have we determined if comcast delivers or SHOULD deliver some of their HD channels "in the clear" for us analog only subscribers that have HDTV's w/ Qam tuners?

My experience in asking comcast is, they avoid answering question or do not allow you to move on to a level 2 csr & just try to sell you the digital service as the only option.

My TV locked in on analog & what appears to be Digital channels on the comcast line ( basic/expanded basic) service but don't seem to be viewable.

In delaware county East/South can anyone chime in? Seems answers may be different in Chester County or Malver area.

Main reason: I do get my digital ch. from OTA but would like to see INHD 1 & 2 chs

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by wdaugh
I'm a producer working for a Philly TV station, interested in doing a story on problems with Comcast HDTV service-dropouts and pixelation, a failure on Comcast's part to address the problems.

Anyone have any idea how wide spread these problems are? and would you be willing to talk about them on camera?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Carl Jones
This issue appears only to be in Delaware & selected areas of the Philly market. This issue appears to have coincided with Comcast's start of digital simulcast for some analog channels & effects all our local HD channels except FOX & the WB.
For the producer's info: the problem is documented, so far, in the Willow Grove, PA and Center City Phila, PA service areas, in addition to Delaware.

Originally posted by drpepper
SO; have we determined if comcast delivers or SHOULD deliver some of their HD channels "in the clear" for us analog only subscribers that have HDTV's w/ Qam tuners?

My experience in asking comcast is, they avoid answering question or do not allow you to move on to a level 2 csr & just try to sell you the digital service as the only option.

My TV locked in on analog & what appears to be Digital channels on the comcast line ( basic/expanded basic) service but don't seem to be viewable.

In delaware county East/South can anyone chime in? Seems answers may be different in Chester County or Malver area.

Main reason: I do get my digital ch. from OTA but would like to see INHD 1 & 2 chs
AFAIK, it is their national policy to leave the HD Locals unecrypted. If you aren't getting them, either your area is different or your tuner scan is incorrect or tuner is defective.

They clearly state on their site and pamphlet that:

HD Locals are in Ltd. Basic.
What I would call HD Stds., (they list them, ESPN, INHD, etc.) are part of Digital Classic.
HD Premiums are part of each premium.

In some areas, some HD Std. channels (usually INHD 1 / 2) are still unencrypted, but they aren't going to help you tune them, because they are technically part of Digital Classic, as I mentioned. Here, all HD Stds. are encrypted already. Eventually, they will be encrypted everywhere.

Since 7/04, when CableCard was mandated, they should help you get the Locals on your own tuner (TV/STB), w/o a CableCard, but they usually aren't accomodating. You will get better help here. Eventually, someone from your service area will probably answer.

Originally posted by drpepper
SO; have we determined if comcast delivers or SHOULD deliver some of their HD channels "in the clear" for us analog only subscribers that have HDTV's w/ Qam tuners?

My experience in asking comcast is, they avoid answering question or do not allow you to move on to a level 2 csr & just try to sell you the digital service as the only option.

My TV locked in on analog & what appears to be Digital channels on the comcast line ( basic/expanded basic) service but don't seem to be viewable.

In delaware county East/South can anyone chime in? Seems answers may be different in Chester County or Malver area.

Main reason: I do get my digital ch. from OTA but would like to see INHD 1 & 2 chs

I don't want to set myself up as an expert on all this. I'm simply a Comcast customer who had basic digital on a DCT-2000, and did some research before I bought an HDTV with built-in cable card tuner. I wanted to understand what I'd be able to receive, both with and without the cable card.

For now, it appears that Comcast has chosen to meet their local HD obligations by transmitting them in-the-clear on most systems. I think that's true of all systems in the Phila metro area, but someone in Chester Co could chime in (I'm Bucks). Most people seem to get INHD1&2 in-the-clear (I do), but I've occassionally found a particular show on those channels encrypted, don't know why. If it's in-the-clear, you should be able to find it. I know it can be painful to flip through every single digital channel, because I've done it.

Like alot of sales jobs, I'll bet the customer service reps are given a script to try and steer the customer to the highest margin product, making you think you that digital=HD. In my experience, if you know exactly what you're asking for, you can get it. But you've got to be very explicit, having done your homework before making the call. My next step will be trying to get a settop with a firewire port. I'm not looking forward to that.

The CSR who answers the phone is not a technical expert. I've had problems with the interoperability of card and TV. I've never tried asking questions, I just reported a problem. At least in my service area, after a second technician service call, they sent a super-tech who actually knew something. Turns out there's an issue with my TV (Toshiba) and Comcast/Motorola headends, which is still unresolved. I don't think they're sabotaging cable card, just that's its new, and cable companies aren't always good at new. And in my case, it may be Toshiba to blame.

Originally posted by inturnaround
I'm not surprised. I'm sure they'd like it if the Sixers playoff games could be seen in HD since they own them.

No, unless contracts have changed, ESPN gets the East playoffs and TNT the west. I'm sure the pressure comes from the fact that sports push tv sales/ratings (in this case).

Western conference games would be missed. I'm sure they have the bandwidth if they can get creative enough. HBO and HBO 2 is still analog in my area (maybe more I haven't checked lately) though they would probably require more notice to customers to drop them.

But like I said there are 9 unneeded PPV channels. VoD is better and more effiecient use of bandwidth.

Bandwidth can't be too big an issue here, just about 20 minutes ago more channels went digital

I am in southern Chester County and I get all the locals and INHD 1/2 via comcast and a QAM tuner. Don't rely on them, though, as I have very good OTA reception...

Originally posted by shades
Bandwidth can't be too big an issue here, just about 20 minutes ago more channels went digital

Shades...is that what caused the 20-30 minute data disruption to the 6412 about 1:20AM this morning here in South Jersey? Screen went black and all guide functions and data were unavailable...definitely not a firmware update.

Chris.

Originally posted by maddogFool
That's almost correct. They are not required to transmit them unencrypted, although many cable companies have chosen to implement it that way for simplicity. They are required to make local OTA HD available on the lowest tier price plan corresponding to their analog equivalents. That may indeed require a settop or cable card.

Ah, that's good to know. I obviously misunderstood that part. Thanks for clearing it up.

Originally posted by QZ1They clearly state on their site and pamphlet that:

HD Locals are in Ltd. Basic

You and I have a real different definition of 'clearly', I think. :)

Comcast, to my mind, went to extreme measures to obfuscate the truth. Just to make sure I wasn't missing it, I went to comcast.com. The big HDTV link on the main page leads to a 'tutorial' that plays a little video about what HDTV is. Click on 'Learn More', and you are taken to the COMCAST DIGITAL page. Follow the HDTV link there, and you get the following text:
[From Comcast's Website:
"Comcast. The easy way to bring HDTV home.
If you have an "HD-capable" or an "HD-ready" TV set, a Comcast HD box is the only additional equipment you need (available for a small monthly fee). So there’s no need to buy a separate HD receiver or antenna. And no long term contracts.

HDTV is available in many, but not all areas."

Follow the 'Order HDTV' links, and you get stuff like "Comcast makes high-definition TV simple. If you have a new high-definition TV set, all you need is a Comcast HDTV cable box to make it come alive." There is an option for HDTV for basic service at $7.95/month, but no mention of cablecard, which is what I assume the charge is for...but it's not clear, and it's the fourth option in the HDTV section.

How about in their HDTV FAQ?

Let's look:
Q: Do I need a special Comcast HDTV cable box to get HDTV TV service?

To receive HDTV service from Comcast, you must have an HDTV-capable or a HDTV-ready television set. In addition, you need an HDTV cable box that enables you to receive and watch HDTV programs. Comcast will provide this box for an additional monthly charge. (Please understand that not all programs are broadcast in HDTV)

Here's a great non-answer for you:

q: What is the difference between High Definition (HDTV) and current Digital TV services?

HD is the new standard of television technology. It provides 1080 lines of resolution compared to the 480 lines of resolution on standard Digital service. HDTV offers wide-screen picture viewing with quality similar to 35mm film along with compact disc (CD) sound quality. From a viewer's perspective, High Definition translates to better visual and acoustic enjoyment when watching TV. Wide screen is defined as 16:9 ratio of width to height. An analog TV has a 4:3 ratio.

Take a good look: note that they don't actually ANSWER the question. Nice. Clear as mud, that.

Now, they have recently changed the 20th question (on the second page) to actually answer the question. This is a recent change, and you can tell that since the formatting of the reply is different from every other page in the FAQ (different font and layout). But this is the ONLY reference to a cable card in the whole process...four layers deep, and only if you infer that Comcast's terminology of 'digital-cable-ready' TV equates to a cable-card TV.

q: I bought a digital-cable-ready TV. Can I get Comcast service for this TV?

Yes, you have the option of using a CableCARD to receive Digital Cable channels only, such as ESPNEWS, The Science Channel, BBC America, MTV Jams and Discovery Kids as well as commercial-free music channels (NOTE: customize to reflect local channel lineup). However, if you would like to use the full range of Digital Cable features, including interactive services such as ON DEMAND, pay-per-view or the Comcast interactive program guide, you will need to use a Digital Cable set-top box.

So if you're a normal consumer without too much idea of what's going on, you'd never get help from Comcast on that point. Their channel Lineup page certainly does nothing to clear the confusion: Look for yourself (http://www.comcast.com/Support/ChannelGuide.ashx).

I mean, I'm not trying to harp on this, but Comcast gave me a runaround for weeks on this process. Calling them got me a DIFFERENT answer each call...and I consider myself a pretty well-informed tech geek. Normal consumers aren't going to navigate this maze, and that sucks.

Originally posted by QZ1
AFAIK, it is their national policy to leave the HD Locals unecrypted. If you aren't getting them, either your area is different or your tuner scan is incorrect or tuner is defective.

They clearly state on their site and pamphlet that:

HD Locals are in Ltd. Basic.
What I would call HD Stds., (they list them, ESPN, INHD, etc.) are part of Digital Classic.
HD Premiums are part of each premium.

In some areas, some HD Std. channels (usually INHD 1 / 2) are still unencrypted, but they aren't going to help you tune them, because they are technically part of Digital Classic, as I mentioned. Here, all HD Stds. are encrypted already. Eventually, they will be encrypted everywhere.

Since 7/04, when CableCard was mandated, they should help you get the Locals on your own tuner (TV/STB), w/o a CableCard, but they usually aren't accomodating. You will get better help here. Eventually, someone from your service area will probably answer.

By law all of the HD locals have to be un-encrypted. In general if an HD channel can be received free OTA then it must not be encrypted by the cable company.

Originally posted by progear
Shades...is that what caused the 20-30 minute data disruption to the 6412 about 1:20AM this morning here in South Jersey? Screen went black and all guide functions and data were unavailable...definitely not a firmware update.

Chris.

probably because was around 1 or so when this happened, also every digital channel went from 64 QAM to 256, is that a big deal?

Originally posted by shades
probably because was around 1 or so when this happened, also every digital channel went from 64 QAM to 256, is that a big deal?

Not a big deal...I was just curious as to whether the data interruption was related to the switchover or merely coincidence...Thanks.

GeekGirl,

Do you use your FE2111SB for TV and DVD movie viewing? I am thinking of purchasing this monitor to be used about 50% of the time as a PC monitor and the other 50% of the time for TV and movie viewing (from a HTPC of course). Price is right and I figured I could suffer with this as my HT for the next couple of years until the stuff that I really want gets down into the $1000 range.

Regards,

Seth Yancey

zmatzkin
"...I am in southern Chester County and I get all the locals and INHD 1/2 via comcast and a QAM tuner. Don't rely on them, though, as I have very good OTA reception..."

You don't say what service you have? analog? basic/standard digital what level?etc

Originally posted by drhill
No, unless contracts have changed, ESPN gets the East playoffs and TNT the west. I'm sure the pressure comes from the fact that sports push tv sales/ratings (in this case).

Western conference games would be missed. I'm sure they have the bandwidth if they can get creative enough. HBO and HBO 2 is still analog in my area (maybe more I haven't checked lately) though they would probably require more notice to customers to drop them.

But like I said there are 9 unneeded PPV channels. VoD is better and more effiecient use of bandwidth.

drhill, this is wrong
The east/west exclusivity is for conference finals only, and it has switched based on the contract this year so that TNT gets the east and ESPN the west. Until the conference finals games can be on ABC, ESPN, or TNT regardless of conference. See nba.com for this weekend's playoff broadcast schedule.

Sorry for the OT post but I needed to correct this misinformation.

Originally posted by drpepper
zmatzkin
"...I am in southern Chester County and I get all the locals and INHD 1/2 via comcast and a QAM tuner. Don't rely on them, though, as I have very good OTA reception..."

You don't say what service you have? analog? basic/standard digital what level?etc

Sorry, just tired of saying it over and over...the last time only about 3 pages ago...

I have the absolute most basic, cheapest service...do not have a comcast box at all...

zmatzkin.. your right, you did.

OH WELL! The end result then is your in the "lucky" category. Per Comcast today, they do "encrypt" or "filter" their digital channels. Some "Franchises" ( areas of Delaware valley) may not yet but most do. So what I am seeing:digital channels locking in but not viewable- is not a mistake but planned. as I said- oh well get what you pay for-
So enjoy what you have till they catch up with your area.

Originally posted by drpepper
OH WELL! The end result then is your in the "lucky" category. Per Comcast today, they do "encrypt" or "filter" their digital channels. Some "Franchises" ( areas of Delaware valley) may not yet but most do. So what I am seeing:digital channels locking in but not viewable- is not a mistake but planned. as I said- oh well get what you pay for-
So enjoy what you have till they catch up with your area.

So what are you saying, and from whom at Comcast do you find this out?

Are you saying that all digital channels, including local OTA-available HD, will soon be encrypted? Or are you just talking about the non-HD digital channels. If the latter, that is not news, as most Comcast headends in the DelVal have been encrypting for some time.

If you're talking about encrypting local HD, that would seem to violate FCC regs and the law, as has been discussed recently here.

Whether InHD1&2 is encrypted seems to be a gray area. Since they have the technology to encrypt selectively, it would appear that them not being encrypted is intentional. I was told by the tech who attempted my cable card install that encryption is done on a QAM cluster basis. They group like channels accordingly, so I assume the local HD are adjacent. Perhaps they put InHD in one of those clusters on many headends, and that's why we see it clear.

Perhaps because of the coming digital simulcast, they will upgrade their capability to encrypt on a channel basis. But that's pure speculation.

Once again! It is NOT against the FCC law and regs to encypt the local HD channels. People have searched and come up with nothing, a lot of other cable providers encrypt the local HD channels.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5497475#post5497475

Originally posted by jportnoy
drhill, this is wrong
The east/west exclusivity is for conference finals only, and it has switched based on the contract this year so that TNT gets the east and ESPN the west. Until the conference finals games can be on ABC, ESPN, or TNT regardless of conference. See nba.com for this weekend's playoff broadcast schedule.

Sorry for the OT post but I needed to correct this misinformation.

Thanks, I was unaware that this year was the year of the contract change. I was just basing it on previous years/contracts.

This probably is more motivation, and I'm sure the bandwidth is there for the creative (without sacrificing PQ).

Originally posted by shepler76
Once again! It is NOT against the FCC law and regs to encypt the local HD channels. People have searched and come up with nothing, a lot of other cable providers encrypt the local HD channels.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5497475#post5497475

You did notice the post from the same person who provided you the answer that issued the disclaimer of being an expert...

This is what I see in the disclaimer from the web site that I get when I enter in my zip code on Comcast.com,

this is the direct link
http://www.comcast.com/phlhdtvtvg/

and it says (among other things)....


"HDTV broadcast feeds are included in limited basic service. A subscription to HBO, Showtime, Cinemax or Starz! is required to receive the HDTV channel from that service. Comcast SportsNet, ESPN, Discovery HD Theater, INHD and INHD2 are included with a subscription to Comcast Digital Cable. To receive HDTV feeds provided by Comcast, an HDTV television (not provided by the company), HDTV equipment and/or digital converter and installation is required. HDTV programming is limited to the programs delivered to Comcast in HDTV format by the underlying program provider. Programming is subject to change. Prices do not include applicable taxes and franchise fees. HDTV is not available in all areas. A monthly equipment charge may apply. Please call your local Comcast office, for pricing, equipment and installation details and restrictions."



Seems pretty clear to me what you should get "in the clear" from Comcast (unencypted) and without a digital cable subscription - in my area that's the local OTA broadcast channels like ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, FOX and WB.

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
You did notice the post from the same person who provided you the answer that issued the disclaimer of being an expert...

I have found the same answer to the same question on many other forums as well.

Hi guys

I never read this thread ever.

I am in K of P (yes we have a big mall)


I just lost InHD and InHD2 (via comcast) on my 4200A.

Is this what you guys are talking about?

If someone finds a solution, please PM me, as I never read this thread.

Originally posted by AndyJ682
I'd just like to add that I'm 100% sure this is a Comcast issue and NOT a Motorola issue (I've said this before, but why not say it again?). I'm in Center City. I used to tune QAM channels in the clear without any problems. The day they started digital simulcasting and moved around some of the HD channels, I began to have dropouts on ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS - the magic 4. FOX and WB continue to be perfect to this day.





Hello AndyJ682,

I never had ANY problems on my 4200A, even recently.

Maybe it IS your motorolla box.


By the way, if anyone can answer my question in my post above, I would appreciate it:)

*HDTV broadcast feeds are included in limited basic service; HDTV equipment and/or digital converter and installation is required. Equipment charge for customers with Basic and or standard $7.95


So need to rent box to get? Qam tuner alone is not enough if it is Filtered, encrypted, etc... The whole point of my Q & A to see if this is true all over Delaware valley
Is it? Seems Comcast wants to say yes, while others may say not yet in my area?

In my prior post I called comcast and asked for tec support, they asked my zip to answer the questions. The guy checked w/ supv. to confirm that if I had just the basic & standard analog service that I should not receive the digital chan. with a qam tuner. I would need their box, cable card, upgrade to something to get it due to encryption and or filtering.

i sure would like to see espn classics on comcast someday here in del county.

Originally posted by JWhip
There is INTENSE pressure from corporate in Philly to get TNT on and soon. Stay tuned!

the 24th still looking good??

drpepper - my interpretation is that the broadcast HD channels are "in the clear", (unencrypted) while INHD, INHD2, Comcast Sports Net, ESPN and Discovery HD are digital channels and are "encrypted".

Your interpretation may differ.

Well, maybe someone from Comcast is reading this forum now, because I lost INHD 1 & 2 this week as well...hah. All locals still in the clear, but not INHD...

Originally posted by xela19115
By law all of the HD locals have to be un-encrypted. In general if an HD channel can be received free OTA then it must not be encrypted by the cable company.
Originally posted by shepler76
Once again! It is NOT against the FCC law and regs to encypt the local HD channels. People have searched and come up with nothing, a lot of other cable providers encrypt the local HD channels.


I didn't mean to imply that is was. I've been hedging on the "encrypt" part of this, because I've been unable to find anything definitive in the FCC regs online and the Communications Act of 1996 one way or the other. I wasn't the one who posted that it was definitely against the law, although I must admit I was sloppy with my wording.

What is clear is the requirement to include OTA HD in the most basic package. That may require a settop rental (or cablecard) if they choose to encrypt. Of course, I couldn't find the exact FCC language which specifies this, but I believe it grows out of the interpretation of the must-carry rule (which I tried to read but it's a little dry). If you get the analog channel as part of the lineup, you get the digital version for "free" under must-carry.

Recently the FCC issued a clarification that the secondary digital programs (WPVI weather) broadcast by local stations are not covered by the must-carry rule. Cable companies opposed this as an absolute -- they'd prefer to negotiate it.

Q..."Your interpretation may differ"

Bottom line: Springfield, delco -channels scan in but not viewable with Qam tuner & analog service & no set top box. logic might say filtered/scrambled. Comcast tec support (right or wrong) for my area says- true encrypted/filtered 256 Qam.....who the F knows anymore...
That is why I asked for some input in this thread.... thanks for the input...

Other towns -maybe even other side of town- may get "in the clear" but I what I want to see - I can't.

Well, now that some are loosing INHD 1 & 2 then no big deal since I can get all the OTA in anyway with my Attic antenna. I was hoping for some extras but that isn't happening.

I thought the FCC (from what I know of them) has been a bit wishy-washy of late on their rules.

I mean, they've pushed back dates, no one is really sure what is "indecent", Michael Powell(Chairman of the FCC) just quit... yadda yadda.

So I'm wondering that even if we find this on the web, if it's actually going to be accurate enough to apply. I think , though, that FCC laws should probably have their own thread... I don't know what you think, Mr. Moderator... but I see there's lots of lively talk about this, which deserves it's own thread.

There will be no TNT-HD or any other new HD channels for a few more weeks, sorry to say.

I live in Havertown, PA and Willow Grove is my Comcast head end. I just got MyHD QAM card and need a station list of the available unencrypted (working) HD cable channels. TIA

:confused:
The MyHD scan turns up hundreds of blank channels without sound!

Originally posted by zmatzkin
Well, maybe someone from Comcast is reading this forum now, because I lost INHD 1 & 2 this week as well...hah. All locals still in the clear, but not INHD...

Maybe someone here mentioned they were getting them (INHD and INHD2), with there QAM tuner, and maybe you are right, someone from Comcast saw it. Then corrected an obvious mistake. Some loudmouth on this forum probably screwed everyone else. Comcast people have been known to lurk on these pages. I think Steve Burke once graced these pages directly, not sure. They all have Internet.

Originally posted by MikeMcC
I live in Havertown, PA and Willow Grove is my Comcast head end. I just got MyHD QAM card and need a station list of the available unencrypted (working) HD cable channels. TIA

:confused:
The MyHD scan turns up hundreds of blank channels without sound!

All of the PA and De Comcast systems get there HD and Digital signals from New Castle, via a fiber ring. That has been posted here before.

Originally posted by JWhip
There will be no TNT-HD or any other new HD channels for a few more weeks, sorry to say.

That's the worse news I have heard all day.

Originally posted by MikeMcC
I live in Havertown, PA and Willow Grove is my Comcast head end. I just got MyHD QAM card and need a station list of the available unencrypted (working) HD cable channels. TIA

:confused:
The MyHD scan turns up hundreds of blank channels without sound!
I live in the Willow Grove service area, and looking at their pamphlet, Havertown is not listed. You might be in the Lower Merion area.

Originally posted by JWhip
There will be no TNT-HD or any other new HD channels for a few more weeks, sorry to say.

Such horse ****. God damn can they do anything right? I wont even watch TNTHD after this basketball playoffs are done. Boy are they screwing this one up.

What about this:

Comcast and TNT have a deal.

In the local Baltimore thread it's posted that TNT HD will be added in three of the counties by 7:00 p.m. tomorrow evening (Friday, 4/22).

I would expect you'll see most of the Comcast systems move quickly to add this prior to the start of the weekend, (where bandwidth allows).

Regards,
GoIrish

That was in a thread about TNT-HD basketball playoffs. Is this true?

Originally posted by Dannytheman
Maybe someone here mentioned they were getting them (INHD and INHD2), with there QAM tuner, and maybe you are right, someone from Comcast saw it. Then corrected an obvious mistake. Some loudmouth on this forum probably screwed everyone else. Comcast people have been known to lurk on these pages. I think Steve Burke once graced these pages directly, not sure. They all have Internet.
Doubtful. It has been discussed for a long time, that some HD channels, such as INHD, have been unencrypted, in some systems; and that they would be encrypted eventually. They are aware of this, they just haven't been able to encrypt them in all systems yet. It wasn't much of an issue until recently, as very few TVs had QAM tuners.

Originally posted by zmatzkin
Sorry, just tired of saying it over and over...the last time only about 3 pages ago...

I have the absolute most basic, cheapest service...do not have a comcast box at all...
For benefit of the other person asking, if channels are tuned with one's own QAM tuner, they are unencrypted, and therefore available with Ltd. Basic.

Originally posted by drpepper
Q..."Your interpretation may differ"

Bottom line: Springfield, delco -channels scan in but not viewable with Qam tuner & analog service & no set top box. logic might say filtered/scrambled. Comcast tec support (right or wrong) for my area says- true encrypted/filtered 256 Qam.....who the F knows anymore...
That is why I asked for some input in this thread.... thanks for the input...

Other towns -maybe even other side of town- may get "in the clear" but I what I want to see - I can't.

Well, now that some are loosing INHD 1 & 2 then no big deal since I can get all the OTA in anyway with my Attic antenna. I was hoping for some extras but that isn't happening.
If all you care about is INHD 1 & 2, then why are you questioning them on channels being unencrypted? As I have stated, if they are encrypting INHDs, you need Digital Classic or Plus.

If you think once you get Locals, you might get INHDs, you could be right. As I also said, you might have your tuner set to the wrong mode. IIRC, they have three different settings for scans. That is probably it, because I haven't heard of Locals being encrypted by Comcast.

Originally posted by the q
drpepper - my interpretation is that the broadcast HD channels are "in the clear", (unencrypted) while INHD, INHD2, Comcast Sports Net, ESPN and Discovery HD are digital channels and are "encrypted".

Your interpretation may differ.
No interpretation needed, it is very clear. The reason it isn't clear to the other person, is that he/she either isn't finding this info. on their site, or more likely, his/her local site doesn't yet have the clear info., that you quoted previously.

Originally posted by maddogFool
Whether InHD1&2 is encrypted seems to be a gray area. Since they have the technology to encrypt selectively, it would appear that them not being encrypted is intentional. I was told by the tech who attempted my cable card install that encryption is done on a QAM cluster basis. They group like channels accordingly, so I assume the local HD are adjacent. Perhaps they put InHD in one of those clusters on many headends, and that's why we see it clear.

Perhaps because of the coming digital simulcast, they will upgrade their capability to encrypt on a channel basis. But that's pure speculation.
Channel placement might be why INHD 1 & 2 are encrypted here, according to my 6412 DVR; they are not next to locals.

The paperwork on the TNT-HD deal was sihned today. However, in the Eastern region, which does NOT include the Baltimore area, there is simply no room to put it. Unless you want to start dropping HD channels like INHD2 for example. I do not like it either but thems the facts.

For me in Delco, one day I turned on the TV and the audio and video dropouts were gone. They did nothing to fix it here, apparently it was all on Comcast's end. It also did not have anything to do with the firmware upgrade because the firmware that fixed the analog channel freezes did not coincide with this fix.

I'm still having the second-tuner problems on NBC, ABC, CBS, and PBS HD channels in Center City Philadelphia with the Motorola 6412, although it seems like the dropouts are occurring a little less frequently (or maybe I'm just getting used to it).

Does anyone have any updated status on this problem? Almost two months and counting with this problem for me so far. And when I call Comcast CSR (about once a week), they don't have any new answers for me (and often they don't know what I'm talking about).

It seems like no one there is working on solving this problem. Anyone have any information?

JWhip wrote (in part): "The paperwork on the TNT-HD deal was sihned today. However, in the Eastern region, which does NOT include the Baltimore area, there is simply no room to put it [without deleting other services such as INHD)..."

Just curious why enough room exits in Baltimore but not in SE PA. Does the Baltimore system not carry the INHD's?

Originally posted by Zack Allen
JWhip wrote (in part): "The paperwork on the TNT-HD deal was sihned today. However, in the Eastern region, which does NOT include the Baltimore area, there is simply no room to put it [without deleting other services such as INHD)..."



This sucks :o

Get rid of some of them Analog shopping channels...............Yeah right :p

Edit to add: If Philly comcast is this short of space for HD channels already, I just may have to make that move back to D*. Which I would hate to do because I love CSN-HD

........"there is simply no room to put it"? What does that mean? No bandwidth? How can that be-- in the eastern region- with a significant allotment of Comcast's >20MM subscribers?

Originally posted by JWhip
The paperwork on the TNT-HD deal was sihned today. However, in the Eastern region, which does NOT include the Baltimore area, there is simply no room to put it. Unless you want to start dropping HD channels like INHD2 for example. I do not like it either but thems the facts.

As we've asked along the way when new channels were being added, care to share what they are dropping?

Bandwidth will become available but I have been told there is none available now but will be in the next few weeks.

Originally posted by RichFPAN
I'm still having the second-tuner problems on NBC, ABC, CBS, and PBS HD channels in Center City Philadelphia with the Motorola 6412, although it seems like the dropouts are occurring a little less frequently (or maybe I'm just getting used to it).

Same in Willow Grove. Those 4 channels every 5 seconds or so. It's similar to a problem I had with a Moto 5100 two years ago. That turned out to be a bad box. Maybe they are recycling tuners.

I just had a Comcast tech over due to a problem with one of my 6412s. I think it was the bad power supply issue. Anyway, while he was here I asked him about the 2nd tuner breakup problem. He said Comcast is aware of the problem (finally!), has identified it as a firmware issue, and hopes to have a fix by June.

He also told me they've been having so many problems with the 6412s that they've been instructed not to replace the boxes except in extreme circumstances. (I guess my bad power supply issue qualified. ) But he said they're trying not to replace them b/c they'll replace a box b/c of one problem but the new box will have yet another problem. He may have been exaggerating, but he did seem pretty fed up with all of the 6412s problems.

I had a Comcast tech over yesterday to look at my DVR box and he said that Comcast is very frustrated with all of the Motorola issues. He even recommended to replace the DVR box with a regular HD box until Motorola gets all of the issues fixed....and he doesn't even know when that will happen.

Originally posted by stoli412
Comcast is aware of the problem (finally!), has identified it as a firmware issue, and hopes to have a fix by June.

Well, I guess that is a step forward. A fix in 2 months is better than no fix at all.. But it took them almost 2 months to recognize the problem, so I'm not too hopeful.

Originally posted by JWhip
Bandwidth will become available but I have been told there is none available now but will be in the next few weeks.

:mad: horrible news. oh well im atleast looking forward to conan starting in hd next week

In this day and age, it is completely unacceptable that Comcast would have NO room to add 1 goddamn channel.

With all the money we pay - the lack of digital channels we currently get (vs. the rest of Comcast regions in the USA) and the technology, the fact that they would allow this to happen is garbage.

If it wasn't for SportsNet, I would run from Comcast cable in a second.

I think it's 2 new channels... but your point is true. If hockey doesn't come back, we might as well get D*.

we have about 50 channels that nobody watches or has even heard of. They're more worried about the 15 people watching shopNBC and the 5 people watching the religious channel than attracting more customers to HD with TNT-HD. This is insane, I would rather them stop digital simulcasting to give us TNT-HD in time for the playoffs, especially with the Sixers in this year.

Originally posted by JWhip
Bandwidth will become available but I have been told there is none available now but will be in the next few weeks.
It will be interesting to see what they drop from Analog. For example here in Willow Grove, they are simulcasting G4 and MTV2, so they could drop them both from Analog right away, AFAIK.

But maybe they are looking to drop more premiums, which would require notice. Here they dropped Starz in the Fall and Cinemax in Spring. They could drop Show/TMC, and leave HBO, as seems to be the pattern in other areas.

They could drop a total of four Analogs here with ease. It is silly that they didn't have contigency plans for TNT-HD just in case a deal was signed before the playoffs.

How many Analogs does it take to make room for on HD?

Originally posted by allinav
Same in Willow Grove. Those 4 channels every 5 seconds or so. It's similar to a problem I had with a Moto 5100 two years ago. That turned out to be a bad box. Maybe they are recycling tuners.
Same problem here, also in Willow Grove area; been going on for ten days. It is not the DVR being defective, as everybody is having the same problem, same as in Delaware, but at least the problem has improved a bit there. Although, I hope they can completely fix it everywhere with firmware.

Have you complained? If so, by what method? I haven't complained because the CSRs are generally so clueless, and I was thinking they would suggest a new DVR, but apparently they aren't anymore. Maybe e-mail is the best way.

Originally posted by QZ1

How many Analogs does it take to make room for on HD?

I think by dropping one analog you can add 2 or 3 HD channels

Originally posted by RichFPAN
I'm still having the second-tuner problems on NBC, ABC, CBS, and PBS HD channels in Center City Philadelphia with the Motorola 6412, although it seems like the dropouts are occurring a little less frequently (or maybe I'm just getting used to it).
I was thinking the same thing; it might be a little better on some of them, but it could be our imagination.

Originally posted by shades
I think by dropping one analog you can add 2 or 3 HD channels
Great, so one Analog dropped and we get TNT and UPN, seems simple enough to do.

Originally posted by stoli412
I just had a Comcast tech over due to a problem with one of my 6412s. I think it was the bad power supply issue. Anyway, while he was here I asked him about the 2nd tuner breakup problem. He said Comcast is aware of the problem (finally!), has identified it as a firmware issue, and hopes to have a fix by June.
That would be 1.25 to 2.25 months away. And it could easily be delayed.

Woud I be correct to assume the entire country, or at least region, will get the firmware update?

Originally posted by QZ1

Have you complained? If so, by what method? I haven't complained because the CSRs are generally so clueless, and I was thinking they would suggest a new DVR, but apparently they aren't anymore. Maybe e-mail is the best way.

Tried email and Comcast ECARE New Castle responded that I should call customer service.

Tried calling and was told it is a known issue and they are working on it.

It seems odd that this hasn't surfaced anywhere but here and Delaware.

Question: In our area (Comcast Coatesville, Pa), HBO-HD and the other premium HD channels appear twice in the lineup. E.g., HBO-HD appears both in the 200's where the HD's are grouped and again at 300.

Does putting four channels twice in the lineup use some of the precious bandwith?

Here in the turnersville area, we get both the philadelphia and new york WB's. The New York WB (WPIX) is almost ALWAYS blacked out. Comcast should have the decency of turning this channel off while the playoffs are on TNT-HD.

Those channels aren't actually being sent twice. It's the same feed mapped to 2 different channel numbers so HBOHD can appear with the other HBO channels and with the other HDTV channels.

The only time a channel is truly being sent twice is when it appears on both analog and digital tiers, such as HBO east. In my system it is sent over analog on channel 26 and again on digital on channel 301.

Now with DS starting, a LOT of channels are actually being sent twice just like HBO east is. It's just harder to notice because the digital version is mapped to display the same channel number as its analog counterpart.

DS is what is going to eat up bandwidth because it's two feeds of the same channel, not one feed being mapped to two or more channel numbers.

Originally posted by neeshu89
Here in the turnersville area, we get both the philadelphia and new york WB's. The New York WB (WPIX) is almost ALWAYS blacked out. Comcast should have the decency of turning this channel off while the playoffs are on TNT-HD.

Yeah and MTV2 is both analog and digital, turn that off, i am baffeld by having wpix hd here in south jeresey, it is always blacked out

We have WPIX (analog) in Harrisburg. Why? I can understand WPHL for out of market WB to a certain extent since we do not have a primary WB affiliate in Harrisburg. I would rather WGN-HD in its place. Then, there are all those Comcast owned channels in the analog tier which could be moved to digital; but, I presume their advertising revenue is based on those channels being on the analog tier. The "Style" and OLN channels channels should take one for the team and move to digital.

Then, there would be plenty of room for additional channels like TNT-HD, Universal-HD, ESPN2-HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies and perhaps some of the Voom HD Originals.

If Comcast was daring and wanted to drive digital penetration, move CSN-Philly to digital.

JWhip, any news on when we will be seeing TNT-HD, or at least some of the TNT-HD playoff games(maybe in place of INHD2 during the games)? There must be some way they can fit in one channel

Originally posted by bronowyn
I thought the FCC (from what I know of them) has been a bit wishy-washy of late on their rules.

I mean, they've pushed back dates, no one is really sure what is "indecent", Michael Powell(Chairman of the FCC) just quit... yadda yadda.

So I'm wondering that even if we find this on the web, if it's actually going to be accurate enough to apply. I think , though, that FCC laws should probably have their own thread... I don't know what you think, Mr. Moderator... but I see there's lots of lively talk about this, which deserves it's own thread.

Here's a link to an FCC reg from 2003 concerning DTV published in the Federal Register. (Someone on the mythtv mail list posted it.) I believe it covers what's been discussed here. You might need to be a lawyer to understand it, I don't as of yet. For authentication, you could look it upt at the government website mentioned at the top.

FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
47 CFR Parts 15 and 76
[CS Docket No. 97-80; PP Docket No. 00-67; FCC 03-225]
Commercial Availability of Navigation Devices and Compatibility
Between Cable Systems and Consumer Electronics Equipment

http://makunu.com/browse/show/37812

Perhaps this does belong in another thread, although the interested people here may never locate it.

The one interesting thing I gleaned, which may be related to Blue Ridge Cable, is that the size of the company does effect what rules must be followed. Pure speculation, but perhaps a small MSO can do things for convenience that a large one can't (like what it encrypts).

The question on the myth list was whether settops will continue send HD video out the firewire port (like the Mot 62/6400 has) , or whether the broadcast flag rules will ultimately require down resolution, or worse, 5C hardware encryption to other devices. No conclusion was reached, although I'm sure the answer is somewhere.

when will Philly and other areas start converting to all digital?

We already have the DS in our area for some channels, it will be awhile before all digital and no more analog.

I have posted all I know at this point on a time table for TNT-HD. Should that change, I will let you all know.

sucks

It's a shame that Comcast is headquartered in philly and will be the last to get it

Originally posted by JWhip
I have posted all I know at this point on a time table for TNT-HD. Should that change, I will let you all know.

Any update on UPN and the phillies games

i wouldnt be worried about UPN right now...At least we have a deal right now with TNT, they need to make room for it now!

Channel 10 OTA off air last night?
I couldn't get the evening news although my tuner was receiving a strong signal.

No Phillies on UPN 57 as there is no place to put UPN on Philly systems.

Originally posted by Tyro
Channel 10 OTA off air last night?
I couldn't get the evening news although my tuner was receiving a strong signal.

Similar problem here - I am unable to scan and pick-up 10-1 and 10-2 OTA. If I try to tune manually, my receiver does not recognize it as a digital channel. Anyone else having problems with NBC 10 digital OTA ?

Anyone else having problems with NBC 10 digital OTA ?

My DTV STB is picking up NBC10 DT as 67-1 and -2. This is the actual channel they are broadcasting on. Possibly a digital ID problem at WCAU.

Originally posted by cschafer47
My DTV STB is picking up NBC10 DT as 67-1 and -2. This is the actual channel they are broadcasting on. Possibly a digital ID problem at WCAU.

I'll check that out when I get home...now that I think of it, that's why I saw "The Contender" on 67 last night. :rolleyes: It never occured to me that they changed channels. Is Fox on 29-1? I've never been able to get Fox with my indoor antenna. I'm sure I will when I put one up on the roof.

Anyone check out Daily News Live today? Man the picture looked amazing. Best I have seen it in a while. They had a new set built and man they really picked the right colors to bring out the HD.

They really pumped up the set lighting which helped.

Looked nice (DNL). I'm for it.

If Comcast doesn't get TNT on before the playoff are over I'd rather have them use the bandwidth on other HD channels. I say 'Bah' to heehaw olympics post NBA.

From what I have been told by numerous sources, I would be shocked if TNT-HD was on by the end of the NBA playoffs in the Philly DMA. THere is NO available bandwidth for it. None, Nunca, etc.

My wife and I currently have comcast with all the HD fixins and their DVR service. At this point in our lives we are way to busy to watch a lot of TV. Last night we decided that we should get rid of the cable TV service(keeping internet) and just get an HDTV box and an antenna. Its a bit of an investment up front, but in about 2 to 3 months we break even and then no more comcast cable bill. We realized that everything we are watching anymore could be found on the OTA channels. She likes Oprah(not HDTV) and the OC and Desperate Houswives. On TV, I watch NFL, that is about it. Sure I will miss the Sunday night, and I think Monday night games now, but oh well, I never had time to watch them anyway.

I live in Media, PA which is a western suburb of Philadelphia. I am close enough to the city that if I get on my roof I can see the skyline of the city. So I don't think there should be a major problem getting reception. (I have also managed to get channels before simply plugging a paperclip into my coax jack in the back of the TV)

At this point I would really like to go with an indoor antenna if I can get away with it. As far as the HDTV box, I see a lot of people mentioning those wallmart boxes. Any suggestions on which box to get? Antenna?

Also when I frequented these boards more, I remember a link to a site where I could plug in my address and it would tell me what antenna I would need to get various channels.

Any suggestions would be great.

RitterD, you can pick up a Samsung OTA tuner at BB or CC for a couple hundred or so. Where you are, you should have no trouble getting all of the Philly OTA channels as well as some others. You may get some with rabbit ears, but your best bet would be a rooftop antenna. Virutually any good one should work for you and they are not hard to install as long as you are not afraid of walking and working on your roof. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice JWhip. I did see the Samsung at CC. I like Samsung, so if that is a good one, I will probably get it.

Anyone have the link to the website that helps you pick an antenna?
Also, what price range should I be looking for in an antenna? I don't want to go too cheap if the cheap ones don't work.

try:

http://www.antennaweb.org

I think that's what you're looking for.

Yes, thats it...thanks.

Another question. Do I need to purchase an antenna that says specifically HDTV, or do I just need one that does VHF/UHF

Antennas labeled as HDTV are just marketing - all you need for Phillie, for now, is a UHF antenna. For indoors, do a search on Silver Sensor. For outdoors, the CM 4221 will be good. I have the larger CM 4228, 43 miles out from the Roxborough antenna farm, and get everything fine.

Check the AVS antenna thread;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=381623

Yeah the silver sensor seems to be the indoor antenna of choice. I also found a Terk TV5 that got good reviews on CC.com. But reading about it here, AVS seems to hate terk, and also mentioned that with my close proximity, I do not want an amplified antenna.

The Channel Master 4 bay 4221 is good. I also have the 8 bay 4228. However, where you are, you should be able to get perfect receiption with a standard Radio Shack UHF antenna.

Unfortunately the rat shack UHF that everyone recommends is always out. Maybe I will just pick up some cheapie UHF at the shack and see if it works...if not I can just take it back. With the HD channels I assume you either get it or you don't, correct? Basically if I can get the channels with a cheapie, there is no quality advantage over an expensive one.

At some point you may need VHF too, though certainly for now you don't. When FCC takes back Upper UHF channels (I think Higher than 51?), NBC on 67, and ABC on 64 will have to find another channel. They will likely use 10 and 6.

By the way, if any of my info is wrong, and someone has updated credible info, please fill me in.

- Mike

Last I looked, Home Depot also had antennas.

2weeks ago I was at Sears in KOP & picked up a STB for $25. YEAH $25 on their clearance. Also, got component cables for $11 (not monster & have to get them to go in the back) but what a deal & it works. My neighbor was interested in it & he got the cheapest hd package. Even sold him my indoor ant. for $20 It was the Zenith HDTV Antenna, Silver Sensor Indoor Antenna. When its that cheap you buy & then find out who can use.
( I found this antenna was just OK & had to play to get all stations. I put a larger one in attic & get all with no play & it beat going on roof.

Always keep an eye on closeouts. I believe the other stb's they have are ~$200-250.
Maybe try DEL store. Every store seems to be different on when they finally do a closeout.

mjr is correct. The future and permanent home of both WPVI-DT and WCAU-DT will be VHF 6 and 10 respectively.

is the sixers game on inhd blacked out? because i'm getting a complete black screen when tuning to the channel.

different programing in delco.

Originally posted by ritterd
My wife and I currently have comcast with all the HD fixins and their DVR service. At this point in our lives we are way to busy to watch a lot of TV. Last night we decided that we should get rid of the cable TV service(keeping internet) and just get an HDTV box and an antenna....
Any suggestions would be great.

I'm not discouraging OTA by any means, but Comcast high-speed plus limited basic cable is actually cheaper than high-speed alone. A little more per month, and you can get a STB for watching the locals in HD.

Originally posted by blackngold75
I'm not discouraging OTA by any means, but Comcast high-speed plus limited basic cable is actually cheaper than high-speed alone. A little more per month, and you can get a STB for watching the locals in HD.

Interesting, I will check into this. Thanks.

I have high-speed plus limited basic. Adding a set-top box for HD is supposed to be $5/month, and it would only get you the locals. Since I wanted the DVR, instead I added Digital Plus ($14.95) and DVR ($9.95) - so basically I pay about $25 more per month more than I would just for high-speed alone. They don't really explain that on the website, but Comcast in our area does not require you to have extended basic or whatever they call it in order to get a digital tier. Although, they do require digital to get the DVR.

if i'm correct, is the next sixers game going to be on in high-def on both comcast and espn? That would be great, will finally be able to see which provides a better picture

No the sxers game will only be on ESPNHD not CSN the phillies game is on.

the sixers will be on csnhd and the phillies are on cn8 i think, it will be blacked out most likely on espn

Originally posted by neeshu89
if i'm correct, is the next sixers game going to be on in high-def on both comcast and espn? That would be great, will finally be able to see which provides a better picture You can see the PQ differences almost every night now.
ESPNHD vs INHD vs CSNHD (from watching HD games from the beginning).
The winner goes to those displaying 1080i, the loser (sometimes close) is consistently ESPN @ 720p.
According to....
http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/
shades is correct....I believe it is "rights to the game", ESPN will never run a game that's also running on CSN.

Anyone know what the deal was? I lost 10-1 OTA on Sunday, 4/24. It was still gone Monday afternoon. I was away part of the week, but when I re-scanned yesterday it was back. Judging by the few posts about this, there must not be too many watching NBC10 OTA. Maybe not many watching NBC...:D

I have had this same droppouts of video and audio on Comcast, mainly on ABC (which of course has the best new shows...) Hope they fix this, they told me 3 months ago they had a fix, but no go.

Anyone figured out a way to get more storage on their 2 tuner Comcast DVR? I read somewhere that these boxes have an SATA connection where an external hard drive could be connected, but Comcast says no such animal exists (or they don't support it more likely).

DVR storage is not adequate, but it is a nice feature, I love not using a VCR (or using my Prismiq media player...)

Originally posted by Plasma George
According to....
http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/
shades is correct....I believe it is "rights to the game", ESPN will never run a game that's also running on CSN.
I remember some games on both CSN and ESPN. However, I have read on AVS, that in the playoffs, the local channel gets exclusive rights.

Originally posted by QZ1
I remember some games on both CSN and ESPN. However, I have read on AVS, that in the playoffs, the local channel gets exclusive rights.

When the Sixers are the national game of the night during the regular season they won't be blacked out on ESPN.

neither is blacked out....trying to figure out which looks better

CSN Is a more accurate picture of the place, ESPN is dark and has a bluish tint to it, if you go to the wachovia center it looks just like it does on csn now not espn

but i think for viewing it, espn does a better job, especially the replays and close-ups....i watched it on espn because it's also easier on the eyes

I would agree the coverage on ESPN is better, but I like the picture better on CSN, Looked to dark on ESPN for me. Not to mention the home team annoucers and mark and steve.

last night's Sixers game, was the best looking game...

but i think it had to do with the fact they WON!!!!!!

mitch

I also think ESPN looked less detailed, and IIRC, they have had better broadcasts than this before. CSN was the obvious choice for me to watch.

I watched the Sixers shopping for plasmas today in circuit city and noted that CSN didnt hold a candle to ESPN-HD with noticeable artifacts in motion. this was across multiple sets and quite obvious. more ammunition for the "720p is good for fast action" theorum.

I couldn't disagree more. The ESPNHD games was terrible compared to CSN HD today. The ESPN game was grainy with poor color accuracy and a weird brightness. While it did have less motion artifacts, the rest of the picture was substandard as far as I am concerned. Having been to numerous Sixers games, the CSN picture more accurately reflects what one sees live at the Wachovia Center IMHO.

Hey Jwhip: we can agree to disagree. you certainly have provided great input to this thread. As a former player though, I find the motion artifacts on the CSN signal more distracting to enjoying the game than any other video aberration. cheers.

JWHIP is 100% corect, ESPN picture looks nothing like the wachovia center, CSN is more detailed and a more accurate picture, and there hardly is any motion artifacts really

I can see if you object to motion artifacts. I can't see them on my 50" screen from more than 6 feet away. I am more effected by the fact that the ESPN colors were all wrong. The color of the court was wrong as were the colors of both teams uniforms. There is really no excuse why ESPN can't at least get the colors right.

I thought CSN's broadcast looked very soft yesterday, yet it still looked better in terms of sharpness then ESPN and much better in color. I noticed no artifacts.

The one thing I like about the ESPN coverage is that they showed the Sixers Dance Team either going to commercial or coming back from. Also during the end of the game, ESPN had much better coverage as they did not take as many breaks as CSN. They were right up on the teams benches and gave some good insight during the OT period. The color of the ESPN broadcast was really dark compared to CSN, and since I have been to games I know that CSN is how the court really does look. To bad they lost, it was a good game.

Hey - I came across this today, some Phillies AWAY games will now be in HDTV from Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia channel 200.

I hope this is a trend!!

Monday, May 2 at 7:10pm @ NY Mets
Wednesday, May 4 at 7:10pm @ NY Mets
Thursday, May 5 at 1:10pm @ NY Mets

Hey guys,

Can we organize together and get rid of these crappy subchannels?

There was a post a little while back that had direct phone numbers to all the important people at 6abc, NBC10 etc.

Lets all harrass them until they ditch the subchannels!!

It looks like multi-casting is the future for the networks, since they can charge more for advertising with the additional channel space they have.
NBC seems to be getting good response with their "Weather Plus" channel, and others may follow their lead, unfortunately for those that want the highest picture quality HD OTA.

I understand that they have to recoup their investment, though.

I called Comcast today to request a credit for the last 3 months of DVR service due to the dropout problems on the 2nd tuner. The woman I spoke to was apologetic, was aware of the issues, and said that she would request a credit to my account.

Today's story regarding the problem is that "someone sent a virus to motorola and that virus got into the software of all of the boxes. Comcast is waiting for Motorola to resolve this problem."

Believe what you want...but that just sound silly to me.

Hi all- I bought an LG LST-3510a today (due to the Motorola 6412 second tuner breakup problem) which is both HDTV OTA and QAM capable and I'm having problems with both. I was wondering if anyone could help.

1) First with QAM, I plug in my cable feed and the 3510a scans and finds all the channels fine, but it has the _exact same_ problem on CBS-D, ABC-D, NBC-D, and PBS-D that the 6412 has (tiling and audio drops every couple of seconds). All of the other channels work beautifully. This really sounds like a QAM signal problem coming from Comcast to me, as I have 2 6412 boxes and now the LST-3510a that have the same problem. But Comcast is still blaming it on Motorola.

2) I'm also having a lot of trouble getting OTA reception. I live on the first floor of an apartment building in Center City Philadelphia with a window that only faces south, and I need to have an indoor antenna. I checked antennaweb.org and found that I am only about 7.7 miles from the towers. I have both an imitation silver sensor and a Radio Shack amplified 15-1880 antenna and the only channel I can manage to pull in is CBS-D and that is with the unamplified silver sensor. I obviously have a lot of tall buildings in the way (i.e. Liberty Place, etc..) Is there anything I can do with an indoor antenna? Or do I have to move to somewhere unobstructed to get OTA HDTV?

Thanks.

Originally posted by RichFPAN
it has the _exact same_ problem on CBS-D, ABC-D, NBC-D, and PBS-D that the 6412 has (tiling and audio drops every couple of seconds). All of the other channels work beautifully.

Interesting. The Motorola virus infected Comcast's system but only in Delaware, Willow Grove and Philadelphia which did not get the vaccine, I guess.

Originally posted by the q
Hey - I came across this today, some Phillies AWAY games will now be in HDTV from Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia channel 200.

I hope this is a trend!!

Monday, May 2 at 7:10pm @ NY Mets
Wednesday, May 4 at 7:10pm @ NY Mets
Thursday, May 5 at 1:10pm @ NY Mets

Where did you come across that? will there be other games, i really hate wathcing games now if they are not HD, good thing too we have TNT HD now , oh gee wait nevermind :rolleyes:

Originally posted by RichFPAN


2) I'm also having a lot of trouble getting OTA reception. I live on the first floor of an apartment building in Center City Philadelphia with a window that only faces south, and I need to have an indoor antenna. I checked antennaweb.org and found that I am only about 7.7 miles from the towers. I have both an imitation silver sensor and a Radio Shack amplified 15-1880 antenna and the only channel I can manage to pull in is CBS-D and that is with the unamplified silver sensor. I obviously have a lot of tall buildings in the way (i.e. Liberty Place, etc..) Is there anything I can do with an indoor antenna? Or do I have to move to somewhere unobstructed to get OTA HDTV?

Thanks. I live in center city and have experimented with OTA myself. I've never been able to get a reliable signal due to multipath, even with an outdoor antenna. People who live north of Market where the buildings aren't as tall and/or don't have the skyscraper cluster in their path have had some success. But if you live in the heart of center city, your reception is going to be spotty at best.

Most of us center city folk are stuck with Comcast or Directv for HD. Comcast doesn't help matters much with the 2nd tuner breakup, but hopefully that will be fixed soon. *crosses fingers*

Originally posted by stoli412
Most of us center city folk are stuck with Comcast or Directv for HD. Comcast doesn't help matters much with the 2nd tuner breakup, but hopefully that will be fixed soon. *crosses fingers*

I don't know, this 2nd tuner breakup has been going on since at least March 1st, and still has not been fixed. With this new "virus" theory that Comcast has, I'm not optimistic that they're actually really working on the problem.

Originally posted by En Sabur Nur
It looks like multi-casting is the future for the networks, since they can charge more for advertising with the additional channel space they have.
NBC seems to be getting good response with their "Weather Plus" channel, and others may follow their lead, unfortunately for those that want the highest picture quality HD OTA.

I understand that they have to recoup their investment, though.


that is such a defeatist attitude, and is unfortunately typical for this forum.



If each one of us raises a fuss, I am SURE we can get rid of the subchannels.

Originally posted by RichFPAN
1) First with QAM, I plug in my cable feed and the 3510a scans and finds all the channels fine, but it has the _exact same_ problem on CBS-D, ABC-D, NBC-D, and PBS-D that the 6412 has (tiling and audio drops every couple of seconds). All of the other channels work beautifully. This really sounds like a QAM signal problem coming from Comcast to me, as I have 2 6412 boxes and now the LST-3510a that have the same problem. But Comcast is still blaming it on Motorola.
This is what I've been trying to say for a long time. I also have a separate QAM tuner, and it has breakup problems on those four channels and only those four channels. This is not a Motorola problem; it's a signal problem - Comcast's signal problem.

interesting because I have yet to have a problem with either one of my tuners.

And did anyone notice the feed from new york last night was in HD on CSN? Very nice picture. Hopefully all mets games now will be in HD when they are not playing at home.

Originally posted by RichFPAN
I don't know, this 2nd tuner breakup has been going on since at least March 1st, and still has not been fixed. With this new "virus" theory that Comcast has, I'm not optimistic that they're actually really working on the problem.
Here on Willow Grove system, I noticed the problem on April 12.

Originally posted by allinav
Interesting. The Motorola virus infected Comcast's system but only in Delaware, Willow Grove and Philadelphia which did not get the vaccine, I guess.
:D

Originally posted by AndyJ682
This is what I've been trying to say for a long time. I also have a separate QAM tuner, and it has breakup problems on those four channels and only those four channels. This is not a Motorola problem; it's a signal problem - Comcast's signal problem.
What's interesting is that the first tuner is fine on a dual-tuner DVR, but if one has a single tuner, people are saying it is affected; this is baffling. :confused:

Anyone who has a Clear-QAM tuner should tell them this, so that they will know that this is not a Motorola issue.

I wonder if they will do anything about this or do they need people to start cancelling. :eek:

Originally posted by Hubcap
interesting because I have yet to have a problem with either one of my tuners.
Well, that means they haven't moved around QAMs to the affected frequencies in your area yet. Apparently, they moved QAMs as part of the ongoing Digital Simulcast testing.

When they started DS here, there were no problems, and then suddenly there were the second tuner breakups.

Just got the word for the Philly market to watch for TNT-HD "soon". I do not know how soon "soon" is however!

Damn. I wanted UPN.. only 3 episodes left (including tonight) of Veronica Mars.

Originally posted by JWhip
Just got the word for the Philly market to watch for TNT-HD "soon". I do not know how soon "soon" is however!

More HD is always good - wonder where they got the bandwith?

TNT-HD may be available on some "select" systems by the end of this week. UPN 57 is being worked on also but I am not sure about when that will be on.

thanks for the heads-up

Originally posted by JWhip
...I would rather not say how the bandwidth is being cleared but it is.
Sounds a little sinister....but, as long is it's not impacting quality of the other HD channels, it doesn't matter to me.

UPN 57 will not be on by May 13th. Perhaps there will be Enterprise reruns that will be in HD after the 13th!

Originally posted by JWhip
TNT-HD may be available on some "select" systems by the end of this week. UPN 57 is being worked on also but I am not sure about when that will be on. I would rather not say how the bandwidth is being cleared but it is.
If they would simply be dropping a channel(s), I don't see why you wouldn't tell us. So, it sounds like you are saying that they are starting to compress their HD channels. Correct me, if this is not the case. :confused:

How about they drop those weather channels and pointless news channels that are right after PBS-HD. I dont see the point of those when you have 50 million other places you can get the news and weather. Hopefully they will not be raising the prices on us.

Originally posted by QZ1
If they would simply be dropping a channel(s), I don't see why you wouldn't tell us. So, it sounds like you are saying that they are starting to compress their HD channels. Correct me, if this is not the case. :confused:

Don't worry in the year 2175 when all the anolag channles are removed they will stop the compression, of course to make room for SHOPNBC 650 in the year 2176, compression will restart

In another thread I nagged shades about being cynical about how Comcast got this bandwidth... now reading this thread (later obviously), JWhips tone (so to speak.... or read) has me a bit worried too.

There will be NO COMPRESSION, relax. I do not think my sources want me to post everything they tell me. THat's all.

Apparently we did not have enough bandwidth for TNTHD but there was plenty to add 10 more digital simulcast channels, thank we really needed CMT in digital now :rolleyes:

I agree. DS is taking up too much bandwidth for a marginal improvement in picture quality. In my situation, many of the DS channels actually look worse now: Enterprise on UPN is absolutely unwatchable with all the motion artifacts.

I think Comcast should move some or all of expanded basic tier to digital only, so they can free up that bandwidth and not have to compress the channels as much. This shouldn't cause too much of an uproar, especially in places like the city where you need a box for analog anyway.

Yeah the digital channels look just awfull on any TV larger than 20 inches, of course they coud look great, i had DIRECTV 5 years ago and the digital looked great but comcast will never stop the compression so they will always look like crap

I have Direct TV also and their SD channels look awful as well and all are digital. SD looks awful on an HD set regardless of size. I have been called HD Centric by people at Comcast as I hound them for more HD all the time. We have to realize that while we are a growing minority, we are just that, a minority, and a very small one at that in regards to Comcasts' subscriber base. It is still an overwhelming SD world and they have to cater to that world first. The digital simulcast is designed to eventually allow Comcast to replace analog but considering that the majority of Comcast subscribers are still analog only, they can't really piss off the majority of their subscribers by making their cable ready TV's non functional by requiring them to get a cable box. While I may not like it, that is how it is. It does not stop me from pushing for more HD though.

Well ANY movement to add more HD in our area will be a good thing. Kind of like a Easter egg hunt, I wonder which lucky areas get TNT by the end of the week?? Now if we could only get rid of this dropout problem...one Easter egg I wished we had NEVER picked up!!

Next question will be HOW Comcast gets us TNT HD with no bandwidth available...hmmmmm.

Originally posted by shades
Yeah the digital channels look just awfull on any TV larger than 20 inches, of course they coud look great, i had DIRECTV 5 years ago and the digital looked great but comcast will never stop the compression so they will always look like crap I had DirecTV up until about 3 months ago. I thought most of their SD channels looked horrible. By comparison, I think the Comcast digitals looks pretty decent. Although, I'm usually watching HD stuff anyway.

Originally posted by Carl Jones
Next question will be HOW Comcast gets us TNT HD with no bandwidth available...hmmmmm.

Carl-
I'm wondering the same thing! :-)

Maybe we can get CSTV finally added while we're at it..lol..

Originally posted by shades
CSN Is a more accurate picture of the place, ESPN is dark and has a bluish tint to it, if you go to the wachovia center it looks just like it does on csn now not espn

It was interesting comparing ESPN HD to CSN HD during the same game.

ESPNHD's colors looked unnatural and the tint wrong, while CSN HD looked true-to-life and accurate. Interesting that there could be that much disparity between an HD feed of the same game.

Originally posted by Carl Jones
Now if we could only get rid of this dropout problem...

I talked to a Comcast customer service supervisor last night who said that they think the dropout problem is a software problem with the DCT-6412 and they are sending a software fix by the end of the week.

This is exactly the fifth time since March 1st that I have been assured by Comcast that this problem would be fixed by the end of that current week.

I still maintain that they have no idea that it's a Comcast signal problem and not a Motorola problem, as other QAM devices have the same problem.

This would be much more encouraging if Comcast even was on the right track, but they seem to be stabbing in the dark on this one.

Originally posted by zippychimp
It was interesting comparing ESPN HD to CSN HD during the same game.

ESPNHD's colors looked unnatural and the tint wrong, while CSN HD looked true-to-life and accurate. Interesting that there could be that much disparity between an HD feed of the same game. How is this possible.?
Flyers games on ESPN were always blacked at when on CSN.
Why was the Sixers game on both channels, I thought we're in Comcast Country, and we are to watch CSN and their commercials, not ESPNs.

On another note, what an excellent sight to see the Phils AWAY game at NY in HD the other night.!
First time I saw and away game on CSN in HDTV since the birth, excellent break through for more HD to come I'm sure.

Originally posted by JWhip
Any AVS members who want to get involved in the newly formed Philadelphia Audio Video Society, please check out our post in the home theatre meets section. The first meeting has been scheduled. Thanks. Are there any plans for the Philly area HT geeks getting together again.?
Main King of Prussia was to perfect for me, but I was travelling when this one happened (April '03)

JWhip,

Thanks for all the information you provide on this forum. I and many others appreciate it.

WE haven't been able to get any more retailers interested. I guess they do not want to sell any equipment.

It would be nice to get reps from our local broadcasters including PBS, Comcast & manufacturing reps (ie Pio, Panny, etc.) to come together to talk to us about current & future plans.

It's interesting that the moment the Sixers are out of the playoffs, the competing network will now be shown in HD.

As far as the Phils go, we should see more away games in HD particularly games against places like Washington and Baltimore where Comcast airs thier home games in HD. If our HD broadcasts can be repackaged for networks like InHD I can't imagine there's any reason Comcast couldn't repackage a Nationals home game in HD against the Phils for broadcast for Philly.

Also, the DS thing is a bit of an issue. I can't use my split screen with my Comcast cablecard and pick up Phils games on UPN or CN8 since it won't display DTV signals on the right side of the screen. I had to go so far as to remove the card so I could get the analogs instead of the digitals.

The other thing that's extraordinarily curious is how they resolved the dropout problem in Delaware County, but not elsewhere. To me that suggests that it's not a Motorola problem, but rahter a Comcast issue.

Has anyone mentioned to Comcast that third party QAM tuners are having the same problem? Therefore, it is a signal problem.

If they fixed this in Delco., why isn't it fixed everywhere? This is ridiculous. Don't various Comcast systems pool info. on technical problems? :mad:

Originally posted by QZ1
Has anyone mentioned to Comcast that third party QAM tuners are having the same problem? Therefore, it is a signal problem.

If they fixed this in Delco., why isn't it fixed everywhere? This is ridiculous. Don't various Comcast systems pool info. on technical problems? :mad:

I mentioned this to the Comcast supervisor when I talked with him yesterday and he told me that it was a software problem with the Motorola boxes. He told me that Comcast "knows" it is a software issue with the Motorola boxes and not with their signal. I tried to explain how a QAM tuner that was plugged into the cable line had the same problem (even though no motorola product was involved). He did not seem to understand and gave me the official corporate brush off.

I wish I could get to talk with someone there who would actually understand what I was talking about and presented some solutions to these problems.

Originally posted by allinav
Interesting. The Motorola virus infected Comcast's system but only in Delaware, Willow Grove and Philadelphia which did not get the vaccine, I guess.
Since we are both in WG, when did you notice the problem? And did you complain? If so, how?

Originally posted by RichFPAN
I mentioned this to the Comcast supervisor when I talked with him yesterday and he told me that it was a software problem with the Motorola boxes. He told me that Comcast "knows" it is a software issue with the Motorola boxes and not with their signal. I tried to explain how a QAM tuner that was plugged into the cable line had the same problem (even though no motorola product was involved). He did not seem to understand and gave me the official corporate brush off.

I wish I could get to talk with someone there who would actually understand what I was talking about and presented some solutions to these problems.
Yeah, it isn't rocket science, you have a TV or STB that picks up Digital Cable in-the-clear channels, in this case, Locals, and still see the problem. Did you explain it like that?

Maybe JWhip can help. Or maybe tell Motorola that other brands of tuners have the same problem, they will be happy to hear that, and pass it along to Comcast.

BTW, which system are you on?

Originally posted by QZ1
Since we are both in WG, when did you notice the problem? And did you complain? If so, how?

I noticed it in mid-April after I read a post here describing it. It may have been going on for a couple of weeks before that, but I hadn't been recording much from the major networks.

Yea, I would love to see more away phils games in HD, Kinda curious why last nights game was not HD, and the night before was.

Jwhip thats for all the info on upcoming HD channels. Keep up the good work.

Originally posted by ps24eva
that is such a defeatist attitude, and is unfortunately typical for this forum.



If each one of us raises a fuss, I am SURE we can get rid of the subchannels.

No, it's a realistic one. However, good luck to you.

No compression of HD. I'm happy then.

As far as digital cable compression, you should see the playboy channel. Talk about pixelation.

Originally posted by QZ1
Has anyone mentioned to Comcast that third party QAM tuners are having the same problem? Therefore, it is a signal problem.

If they fixed this in Delco., why isn't it fixed everywhere? This is ridiculous. Don't various Comcast systems pool info. on technical problems? :mad:




I haven't had any problems on my third party QAM tuner

Originally posted by En Sabur Nur
No, it's a realistic one. However, good luck to you.



If only I can find that post, with all the important phone numbers lol

Originally posted by JWhip
WE haven't been able to get any more retailers interested. I guess they do not want to sell any equipment. Probably because AVSers are most knowledgeable and learned about this stuff, and have no fear in buying on-line from AVS sponsors.!
I do.

So maybe Comcast does know how to fix the 2nd tuner pixelation and audio dropout problem? I woke up this morning to find that both my DCT-6412 and my QAM tuner both no longer have the problem.

I wonder if they really fixed the problem or if they just moved DS stuff around and got lucky. I also wonder if the problem is going to come back.

I'm in Center City Philadelphia. Has this problem been fixed for others in the area too? I hope they did something and weren't just lucky.

i dont think we'll ever get an HD schedule for the phillies

There is a schedule on Comcastsportsnet.com but it doesn't list road games last time i checked

Ths HD schedule was up last year,

Originally posted by RichFPAN
So maybe Comcast does know how to fix the 2nd tuner pixelation and audio dropout problem? I woke up this morning to find that both my DCT-6412 and my QAM tuner both no longer have the problem.

I wonder if they really fixed the problem or if they just moved DS stuff around and got lucky. I also wonder if the problem is going to come back.

I'm in Center City Philadelphia. Has this problem been fixed for others in the area too? I hope they did something and weren't just lucky.
I just checked my 6412 DVR, and they fixed the problem in Willow Grove, PA, too. It was only a problem here, AFAIK, for 3.5 weeks.

Firmware is still 9.15. They didn't even move around QAMs, at least for 231 ABC and 233 CBS, therefore, probably not for NBC and PBS, either.

Any update on the "end of the week" rumor on TNT-HD???

wondering the same thing. I wonder if the channel will just appear or will we have to turn off our box? Maybe they will even send a message saying hey, you have your annual 1 channel a year update for HD!!!!

Originally posted by Plasma George
How is this possible.?
Flyers games on ESPN were always blacked at when on CSN.
Why was the Sixers game on both channels, I thought we're in Comcast Country, and we are to watch CSN and their commercials, not ESPNs.


The deal ESPN/TNT negotiated with the NBA allows them to broadcast in the local market in addition to the "local" coverage. There were several games during the regular season where the Sixers were on CSN, and also on ESPN/ESPN2 or TNT with a completely different production of the same Sixers game.

I know in the NHL, CSN was able to demand ESPN being blacked out for Flyers playoff games, but since ESPN's contract with the NHL is up and in doubt, ESPN will certainly have the upper hand for future negotiations with the NHL and will likely demand the ability to carry the games in addition to the local cable affiliate as well. That is - if they still want NHL. Poker reruns and bowling did DOUBLE the average NHL rating this year during the strike so ESPN may just decide to forgo their involvement with hockey.

Anyone have any sign of TNT-HD here in philly? Nothing for me =(

Still waiting here. Any news at all on when we could be getting it?

it's now the end of the week and we still have no sightings of TNT-HD in the area. There are 2 great games on tonight....come on comcast

neeshu89 wrote: it's now the end of the week and we still have no sightings of TNT-HD in the area. There are 2 great games on tonight....come on comcast."

Sometimes the basketball playoffs shown up in the INHD channels, at least in my area (Comcast Coatesville). It seems that sometimes when basekeball games are on, the schedule says that something else is on, so be sure to check when you know a game is being played.

Re: the Philadelphia Audio and Video Society

Originally posted by JWhip
WE haven't been able to get any more retailers interested. I guess they do not want to sell any equipment.

So the Philadelphia Audio and Video Society met the same end as the Philadelphia area home theater meets (last one held at my place in March, 2003)?


http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=112732

Is there any desire to try in-home demos again, or is it just too much
trouble for most people to organize? From past experience, lots of people
say they're interested, but few actually schedule events.

Dennis

P.S. You might want to post an update in the Area Home Theater Meets section for those who subscribe to the "Philadelphia Audio and Video Society" thread.

I tried searching the thread, but couldn't find an answer..

I got a 23 inch Samsung HDTV this morning. I use comcast HDTV. I have to manually change the aspect ratio when switching from SD to HD and vice versa. Is this par for the course? I thought this should be done automatically.

If this is the TV's problem, I apologize, I just figured it might have something to do with the box.

Originally posted by Zack Allen
Sometimes the basketball playoffs shown up in the INHD channels, at least in my area (Comcast Coatesville). It seems that sometimes when basekeball games are on, the schedule says that something else is on, so be sure to check when you know a game is being played.

When they're shown on INHD, they are NBATV games. I have never seen a TNT-HD game on INHD. I always flip through all the HD channels anyway during primetime, and I didn't see any basketball.

Originally posted by evanh1
I tried searching the thread, but couldn't find an answer..

I got a 23 inch Samsung HDTV this morning. I use comcast HDTV. I have to manually change the aspect ratio when switching from SD to HD and vice versa. Is this par for the course? I thought this should be done automatically.

If this is the TV's problem, I apologize, I just figured it might have something to do with the box.

Is the tv widescreen? It should adjust automatically. When the Content is in HD, there will be no bars on either side of the tv. When its in SD, you will see the bars like with ESPN-HD. You should not need any type of adjusting.

its probably the TV. Your TV must not distinguish the two aspect ratios, and probably just keeps the previous setting for whatever it was on before.

It could be the box - there's a variety of upconversion and pass through modes on my Sci-Atlanta.

On another note, for a while now WCAU (NBC) had been better about starting HD shows in HD and keeping them so. But it looks like they've slipped back to their old habits. Last weel's ER went in and out of HD a lot, and most of their other shows didn't go HD till after the first break.

Originally posted by chroma601
On another note, for a while now WCAU (NBC) had been better about starting HD shows in HD and keeping them so. But it looks like they've slipped back to their old habits. Last weel's ER went in and out of HD a lot, and most of their other shows didn't go HD till after the first break.
I am noticing on ABC and WB, that they are too lazy to switch to HD mode for the last segment of a show, if it is ~1-2 minutes. Also, they sometimes change to SD ~1-2 minutes before the show is over. IRCC, NBC is even more prone to switching to SD / not switching to HD, like you said. Well, like they said, 'nobody's watching anyway'. :rolleyes:

The continued WCAU (NBC) issues are completely ridiculous. I sent off a detailed email to the NBC mothership about the Philly local handling of HD programming a few months back and rec'd no response. Its clearly not a "technology" issue at WCAU...someone clearly isn't doing their job efficiently, whether it be a techie or a manager or both. I somehow doubt that this type of issue would last well over a year at the NBC affiliate in NY or LA, as it would be observed and/or reported to the corporate headquarters and heads would roll immediately. The networks have invested huge dollars in upgrading their productions to HD and to have some "bozo" responsible for "hitting the switch" seems like a major weakness in the entire process...the weak link in this case appears to be in Bala Cynwyd...

Originally posted by progear
The continued WCAU (NBC) issues are completely ridiculous. I sent off a detailed email to the NBC mothership about the Philly local handling of HD programming a few months back and rec'd no response. Its clearly not a "technology" issue at WCAU...someone clearly isn't doing their job efficiently, whether it be a techie or a manager or both. I somehow doubt that this type of issue would last well over a year at the NBC affiliate in NY or LA, as it would be observed and/or reported to the corporate headquarters and heads would roll immediately. The networks have invested huge dollars in upgrading their productions to HD and to have some "bozo" responsible for "hitting the switch" seems like a major weakness in the entire process...the weak link in this case appears to be in Bala Cynwyd...

Wow, no kidding. I watch Medium and last Monday's show was never broadcast in HD. I watched what I call "scrunch box". This is when the aspect ratio is good but there is at least a 2 inch border on all 4 sides of the picture. I think the previous week they flipped the switch about half way through...

Really annoying.

Also, why aren't commercials that are clearly filmed in 16:9 AR broadcast that way? Just another rant.

I guess HDTV owners are a demographic that is unappealing to advertisers!

Originally posted by chroma601
I guess HDTV owners are a demographic that is unappealing to advertisers!

Is the technology so backward that there's a guy in a back room "flipping a switch" to go from HD to SD each time the show goes to commercials? That's really bizarre...

Originally posted by progear
The continued WCAU (NBC) issues are completely ridiculous. I sent off a detailed email to the NBC mothership about the Philly local handling of HD programming a few months back and rec'd no response. Its clearly not a "technology" issue at WCAU...someone clearly isn't doing their job efficiently, whether it be a techie or a manager or both. I somehow doubt that this type of issue would last well over a year at the NBC affiliate in NY or LA, as it would be observed and/or reported to the corporate headquarters and heads would roll immediately. The networks have invested huge dollars in upgrading their productions to HD and to have some "bozo" responsible for "hitting the switch" seems like a major weakness in the entire process...the weak link in this case appears to be in Bala Cynwyd...


why don't you call them?

there was a post a while back that had all the important phone numbers of vice presidents etc. of our local affiliates

I was away for the weekend and came home to a pleasant surprise: the 2nd tuner breakups seem to be gone. All HD channels on both tuners are now coming in error free. Even the ocassional once-a-minute breakups that affected the "good" tuner seem to be gone too. Has anyone else noticed this?

I wonder what type of antenna and set up fellow Chester countians are using to get the signals from Roxborough? Are you getting good signals or is a pre-amp needed.

Thanks

I'm in Oxford, using a CM4228, get great reception. I had bought a CM pre-amp, but it overloaded WHYY, so I took it out.

I'm 43 miles from the antenna farm, feeding a Fusion 3 card in a HTPC.

Originally posted by stoli412
I was away for the weekend and came home to a pleasant surprise: the 2nd tuner breakups seem to be gone. All HD channels on both tuners are now coming in error free. Even the ocassional once-a-minute breakups that affected the "good" tuner seem to be gone too. Has anyone else noticed this?
Read back to the 5th; someone else mentioned CC is fine now, and the same day I noticed that Willow Grove is fine also, but Delaware is still problematic.

Barrybud asked: "I wonder what type of antenna and set up fellow Chester countians are using to get the signals from Roxborough? Are you getting good signals or is a pre-amp needed."

I am in Southeastern Chester County. With an amplified indoor antenna from Radio Shack on top of the TV cabinet (we have a pretty high cabinet that houses our TV set, surround system and STB's, etc.), I am able to pick up the Philly DTV channels, save 57.1. For 57.1, I had to put the cable through the wall into the next room and put the antenna up on some even higher shelves, in which case I get 57.1 but lose some other DTV channels.

With the Phillies in last place and no hockey playoffs, I am considering switching to a sat service, assuming that it would include a rooftop solution for OTA channels, and assuming that I get to keep the OTA antenna after my one year commitment is up.

But I have read on these forums (fora?) that the sat services compress their HD signals, which I guess makes them of visibly lower quality? And with an HD-DVR box rental the sat service might be expensive. So I am not sure what I will do at this point. I would appreciate opinions. Thanks.

Originally posted by mikeewing
Wow, no kidding. I watch Medium and last Monday's show was never broadcast in HD. I watched what I call "scrunch box". This is when the aspect ratio is good but there is at least a 2 inch border on all 4 sides of the picture. I think the previous week they flipped the switch about half way through...

Really annoying.

Also, why aren't commercials that are clearly filmed in 16:9 AR broadcast that way? Just another rant.

Well, to give credit where credit is due, this week's Medium was flawless, as was 24 over on Fox.