Philadelphia, PA - Comcast [Text View] - Page 32

Eagles Fan

12-19-06, 06:18 PM

I had FIOS installed last week and have found it to be a big improvement over Comcast. The install went smoothly as Verizon arrived on time with all the necessary equipment.

The HD and SD channel lineup is significantly better. I was formally a D* customer and missed some of the channels offered by D* that Comcast did not carry. My only reason I left D* was the lack of local HD programing (at the time) and the ridiculous price increases for the Sunday Ticket.

The FIOS PQ for SD matches D*, Comcast digital didn't even come close. The HD picture also appears to be better than Comcast with less (almost none) pixelation. The picture quality on 3,6, & 10 HD is still short of where it should be. This is especially noticeable when watching highlights of games that were broadcast locally and then the highlights are shown on ESPNHD with a copy of the network feed. I don't think even Verizon can fix that problem.

CSN-HD looks good, but has been out for two Flyers game to to "technical" issues. I called Verizon the 2nd time and while the CSR could not identify or fix the problem, they did call back the next day (after the issue was resolved) to apologize and that the signal was back. Good luck getting a call back from Comcast.

I have the media center DVR and it is great becuase now my daughter can watch the cartoons she has recorded without tying up the HD set. The Motorola 6414 DVR responds much faster to commands than the Comcast 6412. The only set back is that I haven't been able to program a 30 second skip button on the remote.

If FIOS is available, you'd be a fool to stay with Comcast.

P.S. Eagles/Giants game will be re-broadcast on the NFL NetworkHD Wednesday night @ 8:00 channel 828, but only if you have FIOS.

newsman

12-19-06, 06:26 PM

I am jumping on the leaving of Comcast bandwagon. Even though I never had their cable, I did have their cable modem. I am jumping to Verizon and their DSL service. Too bad Fios isn't here in the city, I would have jumped on that too and said good-bye to Dish Network. The reports coming in about Fios sound great. It's too bad Comcast thinks they can charge what they want and provide the level of service they do... or lacking service.

JWhip

12-19-06, 07:12 PM

JTFX6552

12-19-06, 07:29 PM

Eagles fan, where are you in Wayne. Send me a pm! I am able to compare OTA CBS with Comcast and they are te same. I will be changing too. The $30.00 a month savings is hard to refuse. Should have kept the comcast remote. I have mine programmed for the 30 second skip and it will work with the FiOS box. I think I have an extra remote which you can try.

Any more details on the remote? I take it the box still responds to the commands, but the remote verizon supplies is unable to be programmed for it?

I'd really miss it if i couldn't keep that feature. I guess I could program it into my marantz, but I generally only use the "Big" remote when I need a "macro".

JWhip

12-19-06, 07:35 PM

It is my understanding the the Comcast supplied remote works with the Fios supplied box and the 30 skip will still work.

rhiss

12-20-06, 12:38 PM

We had FIOS TV installed yesterday - here are my first impressions. We live in Pocopson Township, Chester County and have had FIOS internet for over a year. The HD reception appears equal to very slightly better than Comcast. However, based on 2-3 hours viewing last night, there were no audio or video dropouts, an improvement over Comcast. SD reception is also equal to slightly better than Comcast; for us, not a significant improvement. We were reasonably pleased with our Comcast recption, except for the audio and video dropouts that ocurred most every night.

The Verizon remotes do not have an "all off" button and do not have the "swap" function enabled - 2 major negatives in usability. In addition, I was not able to program the "30 second skip" into the new remotes. The Comast remote will work the 30 second skip with the Verizon box, but we will need to return these remotes if we stay with Verizon. If anyone knows how to program the Verizon remote, please pass the info along.

We installed the Verizon Media Center. It is a good offering that enables you to remotely view SD recorded programs on STANDARD (not HD) boxes. The installation involved setting up a NIM (Network Interface Module) to my Linksys wireless router. The installer went this route when I objected to having a new wireless router installed that may not support WPA2 encryption. The installer said Verizon only supports WEP and this was confirmed by their tech support. I find this difficult to believe as WEP is outdated and easily hacked. Just getting started on creating audio playlists. Unfortunately, what I have seen so far is not encouraging. Many of my files show up as "corrupted" when I try to play them using the Verizon Media Center. However, all these files play OK when played on the Windows Media Player. I have more work to do here to figure this out.

The channel guide appears to be logically arranged, grouping like subject matter together. A minor point, but why not group the HD stations in the same order as they occur over the air and as they are arranged for SD? You can move very quickly from one station to another, no hesitation that you get with Comcast.

A huge negative for us in the dearth of "analog" channels available. Comcast offers about 70, you get about 15 with Verizon. This means you must get a standard STB to view the other channels. This is a major step backward in usability. I know there is a digital standard coming sometime in the future and the Verizon installer stated that is why they offer so few channels. But adding and paying for a STB just to watch the Food Network, History channel isn't good.

Pricing - with Comcast, using 2007 prices we would pay about $96 for Digital Plus and 2 DVRs. With Verizon it is about $81 for their digital package, 1 media center DVR, 1 HD DVR and 1 standard STB. One standard STB is included if you agree to an annual signup. Verizon does not include the digital movie channels that Comcast provides (channels 149 to around 168), plus we get Sarz for free. To add this offering to Verizon would add another $13 per month.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought you might be interested in the comparisons.

JWhip

12-20-06, 12:57 PM

rhiss

12-20-06, 01:49 PM

I checked the Diagnostics In-Band status on my 2 Verizon DVR boxes and note that the SNR is 35.5 to 36.1 and is labelled as "good'. but the AGC is 77% and is labelled as "fair". I do not recall the actual numbers off my comcast boxes, but I do remember both these areas labelled as "good." Could this be why we are not seeing much difference in picture quality between Comcast and Verizon? We did have an amplifier on the Comcast system that the Verizon tech said was not need with their system, so it was removed.

JWhip

12-20-06, 02:02 PM

Not really. What type of display are you using?

rhiss

12-20-06, 03:04 PM

Display is Fujitsu 50 inch plasma - 1080i.

JWhip

12-20-06, 03:12 PM

AT that size and quality, you should see a differencer in PQ on SD. Surprising.

jeepmatt

12-20-06, 04:14 PM

That SNR is great, but an AGC of 77% is quite high - but i'm not certain what type of parameters FIOS uses... but back when I had Comcast I was usually around 53% AGC.

ftaok

12-20-06, 04:29 PM

rhiss, Comcast will be dropping the number of analog channels to about 20 in the next two years also. Frankly, the analog channels take up way too much space anyway. I am surprised that you do not find the SD channels to look much better on Verizon than on Comcast as form what little as I have been able to tell, the SD looks much better on Verizon. Thanks for posting your findings.
Well, as long as they replace them with unencrypted digital versions of the same channel, I won't mind too much as my big screen has a QAM tuner.

It'll still suck for my kitchen and basement TVs (no QAM), which just use the straight coax feed.

QZ1

12-20-06, 04:43 PM

Well, as long as they replace them with unencrypted digital versions of the same channel, I won't mind too much as my big screen has a QAM tuner.
Well, the Digital versions of 2-99 already exist with use of a Comcast Digital STB. You will be dissapointed to see that only 'Basic' (the SD/HD Locals) are unencrypted, and received by a QAM STB. 'Expanded' is encrypted with few, if any, exceptions.

ftaok

12-20-06, 05:48 PM

Well, the Digital versions of 2-99 already exist with use of a Comcast Digital STB. You will be dissapointed to see that only 'Basic' (the SD/HD Locals) are unencrypted, and received by a QAM STB. 'Expanded' is encrypted with few, if any, exceptions.
At my house, I am receiving Expanded Basic Cable (~$45/mo) to get channels 2-99. With my new TV (QAM), I get the local HD channels plus Universal HD. I also get a few unencrypted SD channels (e.g. G4, CSPAN, ESPN Classic, History, Animal, etc.)

I am mainly concerned that they may move ESPN, ESPN2, ComcastSportsNet, Spike, HGTV to digital only. And my wife likes Food Network.

If these go digital only, I'd be a little upset as I don't want a STB for my kitchen and basement TVs.

ft

QZ1

12-20-06, 06:07 PM

Does anyone with a Comcast CableCard know which, if any, Comcast HD (or SD) channels are using Switched Digital Video, and therefore you can't receive?
I realize more could be added, but Comcast has been slower than TWC in this regard.
The reason being is I am thinking of picking up a CableCard TV, and I know CC doesn't pick up any SDV channels.

GeekGirl

12-20-06, 08:41 PM

I've previously posted about my pixelated ComCast channels. SNR was running fair to poor. The telling point was that there was a ton of uncorrectable errors.

On a hunch, I put in a 6 dB attenuator at the input of my distribution amp. It's at the home entrance and feeds 8 runs. Voila, all better now. Picture is great. No errors, SNR solid Good. The analog channels are also much improved.

I just noticed that all the SD digital channels are 256-QAM, they used to be 64-QAM. My guess is that the channels were converted / shifted closer together in frequency to make room for the new ones. The result was an increase in the total RMS power at the amp input which created havoc with intermods.

If anyone else is having a recent pixelation problem and they have a distribution amp, try an attenuator.

thebiggkm

12-21-06, 11:09 AM

Well, as long as they replace them with unencrypted digital versions of the same channel, I won't mind too much as my big screen has a QAM tuner.

It'll still suck for my kitchen and basement TVs (no QAM), which just use the straight coax feed.

Comcast has just started encrypting the QAM siganls that used to include with Basic Cable. They want you to spend about 15.00 more to get the HDTV signals.

Can't wait for Verizon to bring FIOS to Mount Laurel, NJ

ak3883

12-21-06, 11:25 AM

Comcast has just started encrypting the QAM siganls that used to include with Basic Cable. They want you to spend about 15.00 more to get the HDTV signals.

Can't wait for Verizon to bring FIOS to Mount Laurel, NJ

When I bought my HDTV in summer '05, ALL the regular channels were unencrypted and they were just starting to go to digital simucast. A few months ago they encrypted nearly all of them. A handful of them are unencrypted, the ones that come to mind are: G4,MTV2,History,Animal Planet,HSN,ESPN Classic, along with all the digital SD locals, and of course the HD locals. ESPN Classic intrigues me since it isn't on the cable box, but it's transmitted in the clear. Friend of mine over in Wynnewood gets classic on their cable box on like 268 or somewhere around the sports tier channels.

Likely won't see FIOS at my apartment before I leave :mad: since I won't be there forever

neeshu89

12-21-06, 03:55 PM

JTFX6552

12-21-06, 05:20 PM

I have a CableCard and as far as I know, I recieve all the channels available.
Does the comcast charge for the cablecard?

jaxstraww

12-21-06, 08:09 PM

shades

12-21-06, 10:23 PM

Fios, whats that :mad:

newsposter

12-22-06, 07:45 AM

Comcast has just started encrypting the QAM siganls that used to include with Basic Cable. They want you to spend about 15.00 more to get the HDTV signals.

i thought HD must be in the clear?

enier

12-22-06, 08:35 AM

Fios, whats that :mad:

It's Verizon's attempt to distribute video or basically an alternative to Comcast if you are in the right location. Here's the link to the FIOS thread... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=621323

jeepmatt

12-22-06, 10:08 AM

Looks like they added the FIOS TV channel lineups for Northern and Souther NJ today - but they removed Delaware!

Hopefully it was just a mistake and not a bad sign. :(

neeshu89

12-22-06, 02:14 PM

Does the comcast charge for the cablecard?

The card is cheaper than the box, and you pay for the box, and then get a credit each month for using the card instead. The credit is only 4.50 though, and that also means I get no OnDemand or channel listings

mchin247

12-22-06, 02:17 PM

Comcast has just started encrypting the QAM siganls that used to include with Basic Cable. They want you to spend about 15.00 more to get the HDTV signals.

Can't wait for Verizon to bring FIOS to Mount Laurel, NJ

I use to be able to view abc, nbc, cbs in hd ota. Not any more. I can view WB and Fox in hd. I figured that comcast would do that. I guess its time to upgrade to digital :)

purcellj

12-22-06, 05:53 PM

I use to be able to view abc, nbc, cbs in hd ota. Not any more. I can view WB and Fox in hd. I figured that comcast would do that. I guess its time to upgrade to digital :)

It's more likely that Comcast simply moved the channels. Look at the last few pages of this thread.

I thought I remember hearing that the FCC required the locals to be unencrypted.

mchin247

12-22-06, 07:23 PM

It's more likely that Comcast simply moved the channels. Look at the last few pages of this thread.

I thought I remember hearing that the FCC required the locals to be unencrypted.

I tried the 256 channel but nothing. I will search again. Thanks.

blackngold75

12-22-06, 08:08 PM

Carl Jones

12-23-06, 08:10 AM

I've had unpleasant experience (pricing) with the CC. I was told there would be no additional charge but they added $8.90 as a "digital a/o" fee. After months of arguing this, I just finally had it removed.

QZ1

12-23-06, 05:29 PM

According to Comcast's website: "There is no additional charge for CableCARD service above what you currently pay for Digital Cable service, although additional outlet charges for programming may apply." How's that work out for real? I've been thinking of getting a TV with CableCard.
I've had unpleasant experience (pricing) with the CC. I was told there would be no additional charge but they added $8.90 as a "digital a/o" fee. After months of arguing this, I just finally had it removed.
This whole deal is so confusing because they don't separate out Services, STBs/CCs, and Service Mirrroring. At the very least they should explain it better on their price list.

Indeed the first CC replaces the first STB that is included with Digital service. The Digital STB for a la carte premiums is $4.15 here; so that is the actual cost of the STB or CC, it just isn't itemized. The only way to truly get a free CC is to get it just for Standard service (digital simulcast) or Basic (so channel numbers don't change).

It gets more confusing when talking about A/Os. The A/O includes the STB or CC and sometimes a Mirroring fee, as well, not itemized. Their '07 price list is not entirely clear to me. There is no more Digital Classic/Plus A/O for $8.90, and the Enhanced (Standard Digital Simulcast) A/O $4.95 is not available for new subs. Instead there is a only a Digital Starter A/O for $4.95. Lucky, if one doesn't have at least this fee. Maybe this will appear for A/O CCs in Jan.

Does anyone know what Digital Starter is?
And can I assume this would really give A/O access to Digital Plus.

Also, I noticed that Whole House Premium Access is not listed, is it really gone?
I guess nobody will know until Jan.

Also, no more listing for a HD STB.
Second DVR at $17 almost cerainly includes the A/O fee, but, again, nobody will know until January.

I may have to ask a CSR these Qs as I want to get either STB/DVR/CC for my second TV. It is amazing they can't get people to write clear price/service descriptions.

whotony

12-23-06, 07:37 PM

when is fios coming to all of delaware county?

whotony

12-23-06, 07:38 PM

oh and dsl.

aston doesnt have either yet

endodmd

12-23-06, 11:36 PM

I have a couple of Comcast CC's and they have not added anything to may monthly bill.
Knowing the limitations of cablecards and just wanting to watch the standard channels, does anyone know of any multiple cablecard tuners where I can place 7 in one place so I can distribute the signal to 7 different monitors and be able to independently contol each one of them?

Super Dave

12-24-06, 09:36 AM

Anyone in the Norristown area using Dish Network and the HR20 hi-def receiver? We now have OTA set up and I'm looking for an indoor antenna. Looking for suggestions of some that you are using that get good reception.
Dude, an HR20 is a DirecTV box, not Dish. You might want to post here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112

and here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=598538

shades

12-24-06, 04:13 PM

I just saw on dslreports.com a list of communities in jersey where verizon is going to first have fios and my township is on there but don;t they have to install new lines underground? if so they have not touched our neighborhood at all or even let us know anything

dminches

12-24-06, 04:33 PM

Does offering cable TV also mean high speed internet will be available?

non-ricer

12-25-06, 12:25 PM

Does offering cable TV also mean high speed internet will be available?

i personally dont know, i know that having fios internet does not entail having cable service....

StuJac

12-25-06, 12:39 PM

Not sure about your area but in mine (Glenside, PA-Abington Township-just north of Philly) we've had dsl for along time but still no cable.

non-ricer

12-25-06, 01:59 PM

i think he meant fios internet, not dsl... i may be mistaken.

StuJac

12-25-06, 02:04 PM

ok - never heard of fios internet. Is that on par with Comcast internet?

non-ricer

12-25-06, 02:06 PM

i currently have verizons fios 15mb down and 2mb upload line.... its really nice, just waiting for them to get cable tv service out here. never had comcast internet so i really cant compare. However, fios is cheaper so thats a a definite plus.

i did run into one snag, they seemed to have overcharged me for internet, i will dispute it tomorrow.

amward1980

12-25-06, 02:32 PM

Can someone please confirm that the local HD channels (i.e. NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS) are still available through QAM with Basic Cable in the Philly area?

I'm about to purchase a Sony Bravia (KDL-32S2400) and was hoping to at least get these local HD channels!

xela19115

12-25-06, 05:49 PM

i thought HD must be in the clear?

Only the broadcast networks are in the clear.

JTFX6552

12-25-06, 10:31 PM

Only the broadcast networks are in the clear.

For some reason I am also getting Universal HD in the clear?

QZ1

12-25-06, 10:35 PM

For some reason I am also getting Universal HD in the clear?
It is one of the newer, if not newest, HD channel; they just haven't encrypted it yet, they will. It is common for new HD channels to be unencrypted at first.

newsposter

12-26-06, 08:25 AM

Only the broadcast networks are in the clear.

yes so why arent 3 6 10 12 etc in the clear on cable (i dont have cable, just was asking)

Jake1961

12-26-06, 09:54 AM

xela19115

12-26-06, 11:05 AM

yes so why arent 3 6 10 12 etc in the clear on cable (i dont have cable, just was asking)

They are in the clear. The general rule (that's FCC regulation) is whatever you can pick up with the over-the-air antenna in your area should not be scrambled or encrypted by the cable company if they carry the channel. Goes both for analog and digital channels. You may get some other cable channels as well. Even better.

purcellj

12-26-06, 11:40 AM

Do I need to be doing something with the Sony to pick up all of the standard package channels?

Sony HD's seem a little weird. Sony doesn't view the analog and digital channels as 1 linear stream. You either see analog or you see digital. One of the buttons on your remote should switch between them.

Soybean

12-26-06, 02:21 PM

I'm about to move from Mount Laurel, NJ to Lumberton, NJ and I'm finally getting an HDTV when I'm in the new house.

Comcast's channel lineup for the area only shows a handful of HD channels:

200 Comcast Sportsnet HD
202 ESPN HD
205 Discovery HD Theater
206 INHD
231 WPVI-DT (ABC-HD)
232 WCAU-DT (NBC-HD)
233 KYW-DT (CBS-HD)
234 WTXF-DT (FOX-HD)
235 WPHL-DT (WB-HD)
240 WHYY-DT (PBS-HD)

Is that it? No TNT or anything else? I'm hoping against hope the list is just outdated.

If anyone who lives nearby (Mount Laurel, Mount Holly, Hainesport, Lumberton, etc.) can give some insight into what our local Comcast HD offerings are, I'd be much appreciated.

If that's all there is, I don't see why I wouldn't go with Dish Network or DirecTV.

howwen

12-26-06, 02:54 PM

You can add ESPN2HD, and TNTHD to that list.

Remember no Comcast means no Comcastsporstnet (Flyers, Sixers, Phillies)

You may want to check the availability of FiOS TV as well for another option.

QZ1

12-26-06, 05:34 PM

QZ1

12-26-06, 05:46 PM

Just got a new Sony HDTV for X-mas. I'm not very tech savy, but managed to hook up both TIVO and a DVD player. Only problem I am having is that the TV is only displaying channels from Comcast's basic package. We have standard service - next level up - but none of those channels are being recognized (such as ESPN). Five other TVs in the house have no problem picking up all standard package channels (as did the TV that was replaced with the Sony). Do I need to be doing something with the Sony to pick up all of the standard package channels? I recognize that signing up for HD level service is a whole different issue. Thanks.
You must have the cable tuner set to Digital (QAM), therefore all you will pick up, with few exceptions, are the HD Digital Locals from 'Basic'. The 'Expanded' part of 'Standard' is now digitally simulcasted, so those Expanded SD Digital channels are encrypted; in order to get them, you would need a CableCard or Box. With Comcast, there is no HD service per se, only an HD Box, which is not needed if you get a CableCard, if your TV supports this.

Everyone can get HD Locals, in Basic, as I said.
HD Premiums are part of each Premium.
HD variety channels are in Digital Classic.
Encore HD OnDemand is in Digital Plus.

In order to get Analog Standard, AFAIK, you will need to set your TV's cable tuner to Analog, of course, then you lose HD Digital Locals. The only way to get everything in your sub is with a Box or CC, but at least it would be all-Digital.

QZ1

12-26-06, 07:41 PM

mrjgkelly

12-26-06, 08:33 PM

You can add ESPN2HD, and TNTHD to that list.

Remember no Comcast means no Comcastsporstnet (Flyers, Sixers, Phillies)

You may want to check the availability of FiOS TV as well for another option.

This is correct... with Comcast you also get ESPN2HD, TNTHD, UHD and MTVHD... with FIOS you do get Comcast Sports Net and all of the other HD channels Comcast currently provides, plus My PHL HD, YESHD, WEALTH TV HD, and National Geographic HD... FIOS also gives you HD Net and HD Net Movies, which may (or may not) be the same as IND and INHD2. I just ordered FIOS TV and will also be getting STARZHD, SHOWTIMEHD and TMCHD, for a lesser cost than what I'm currently paying for Comcrap without these channels. :cool:

Soybean

12-27-06, 01:46 AM

This is correct... with Comcast you also get ESPN2HD, TNTHD, UHD and MTVHD... with FIOS you do get Comcast Sports Net and all of the other HD channels Comcast currently provides, plus My PHL HD, YESHD, WEALTH TV HD, and National Geographic HD... FIOS also gives you HD Net and HD Net Movies, which may (or may not) be the same as IND and INHD2. I just ordered FIOS TV and will also be getting STARZHD, SHOWTIMEHD and TMCHD, for a lesser cost than what I'm currently paying for Comcrap without these channels. :cool:
Some small print at Comcast.com says "TNT HD is only available in Southeastern Pennsylvania and Northern Delaware". Looks like I'm out.

I'd kill for FiOS, but it's not available in Mount Laurel, let alone Lumberton. Wikipedia notes that Evesham, Medford and Medford Lakes are the only Burlington County towns that have it. *sigh*

howwen

12-27-06, 10:55 AM

We don't have FiOS yet in Evesham,

We do have TNT HD on Comcast cable, so I am assuming you will have it in Lumberton.

Super Dave

12-27-06, 06:59 PM

You must have the cable tuner set to Digital (QAM), therefore all you will pick up, with few exceptions, are the HD Digital Locals from 'Basic'. The 'Expanded' part of 'Standard' is now digitally simulcasted, so those Expanded SD Digital channels are encrypted; in order to get them, you would need a CableCard or Box. With Comcast, there is no HD service per se, only an HD Box, which is not needed if you get a CableCard, if your TV supports this.

Everyone can get HD Locals, in Basic, as I said.
HD Premiums are part of each Premium.
HD variety channels are in Digital Classic.
Encore HD OnDemand is in Digital Plus.

In order to get Analog Standard, AFAIK, you will need to set your TV's cable tuner to Analog, of course, then you lose HD Digital Locals. The only way to get everything in your sub is with a Box or CC, but at least it would be all-Digital.
I have a Sony 50" LCD RP HDTV and I don't have to go through all that. After I scanned for all signals I just punch in "3" and I get CBS3 analog. If I punch in 117.2 I will get the HD feed of CBS. 6 is 113.1, 10 is 113.2, ...

And I still can get TNTHD in the clear on 110.2. I only use these as backups, since I have Dish and get my local HD channels over 3 tuners, that is more than enough to record from.

QZ1

12-27-06, 09:57 PM

mrjgkelly

12-27-06, 10:25 PM

Comcast's prices/services list hasn't been easy to understand in recent years, due in large part to not separating out Services and Mirroring Fees, from Boxes and Cablecards. I think I was quite proficient in this past year's pricing structure, but this new year they have really gotten worse, in terms of accuracy and clarity on the Comcast-Willow Grove list.

If you are getting a price increase in Jan. '07, then you got the new price list, but nobody has gotten an '07 bill yet.

I am asking now to get the '07 prices clear, because I am interested in getting a secondary TV that is almost sold out, and I need to decide on a CC, HD STB, or HD DVR and service mirroring, before I buy.

I know areas vary, but if other areas have these items, maybe I can figure out approximately our local pricing for the combo of equipment and mirroring I choose.

1. The 'free' CableCard, on a primary outlet is actually in place of an STB that it paid for in Digital services; (it is $4.15 for a la carte Premiums).
But, for an A/O with just Basic (doesn't need a CC) and a Premium, I think the CC would be free?
I don't see how any of the Digital A/O fees would apply. Possibly it wouldn't code the the Local channels correctly, even that I doubt.
And, then I would just pay for the premium access (if that fee still exists.)

2. I don't see a 'Whole House Premium Access' $5 listed, so I figure, great, but was it really discontinued?
To me it sounds like an ommission.

3. 'Digital Starter A/O' replaces 'Enhanced A/O', it is still $5, this give the Digital version of Standard, fine.
But, what if one wants 'Digital Classic/Plus A/O', it used to be $9, do you get it with the Digital Starter A/O?
To me it sounds like an ommision. If it is, I would pass, it is overpriced.

4. there is no 'HD STB', it used to be $5 above Digital, Without Digital it was $9.
Does the second TV also have to be subbed to a 'Digital A/O' fee to get the $5 HD STB price on the second TV?
Was it discontinued, do you have to get an HD DVR now?
Again, it sounds like an ommision. Probably is $2 more also.

5. A second DVR will now be $17, does this include any service mirroring, it appears from the fee, that it would include access to Standard, but what if one wanted Digital Classic/Plus?
There is no fee listed, and it couldn't be $9 because the second DVR is already $5 more.

So, please look at your '07 price lists, and tell me if have these items, and understand any of it better.
Whatever I can't get answered, I will have to e-mail Comcast on Jan. 1, as online chat would take all day.

I called Comcast about their new '07 price list and asked them why I was currently being charged for certain options (such as the Digital A/O) that weren't on their new list , and they told me that the new price list only included pricing for those options that were going to have a price change. There was pricing for options on the list that weren't changing, but since I was planning to switch to FIOS TV anyway, this just further justified my decision to switch and I didn't bother arguing with her. The only way I think you're going to get a straight answer to the questions you've outlined above is to ask Comcast directly... good luck with that

QZ1

12-27-06, 10:30 PM

I called Comcast about their new '07 price list and asked them why I was currently being charged for certain options (such as the Digital A/O) that weren't on their new list , and they told me that the new price list only included pricing for those options that were going to have a price change. There was pricing for options on the list that weren't changing, but since I was planning to switch to FIOS TV anyway, this just further justified my decision to switch and I didn't bother arguing with her. The only way I think you're going to get a straight answer to the questions you've outlined above is to ask Comcast directly... good luck with that
They are not correct, there are are some fees on there that say 'no change'.

I guess it would easier to ask one question at a time.

But, for the A/O, I will probably just start with the free CC, and if there is a Premium access fee it is $5. I just want Locals and Premium on that TV, I don't have to have Digital Plus.

Carl Jones

12-28-06, 07:03 AM

IPman

12-28-06, 09:47 AM

I am on the Comcast-Willow Grove system.
Has anyone from this or a nearby system gotten a CableCard for a TV (or DVR) lately?
If so, how did the install go and is the CC working reliably?

Please mention:

the system you are on
brand of CC (Motorola or SA).
brand of TV or DVR

QZ1 I too am on the Willow Grove Comcast system. I have a Panasonic: TH-42PX60U and a TH-50PX60U; both are hooked up to the analog Comcast cable. I susbscribe to the analog enhanced and pay for HBO, SHow etc. I do not subscribe to "digital cable"

When I discovered/scanned the Comcast cable connection. I selected the Analog & Digital option and much to my surprise, the QAM tuner in the Panasonic's discovered all of the Digital video and music channels on the Willow Grove system. (Without the Cable Card installed) I can only see the network HD (ABC CBS NBC FOX 29 17 etc) stations and some other misc. HD stations (Universal HD) that Comcast has yet to encrypt all of the other digital chanels are encrypted and not visible.

If you want to actually see all of the digital stations you will need a Cable Card which will be able to decode the encrypted stations. You will need to coordinate that with Comcast because their is a protocol handshake between the Comcast encrytion key server and your own Cable Card. (Thats how Comcast can turn your service on/off if you dont pay your bill and you dont have their set-top-box)

I also have a TIVO Series 2 box that looked great on my old Sony SD TV but on the 42" plasma looks awful... I guess I will be biting the bullet and buying a TIVO Series 3 HD box. (I am not really into paying for digital cable and renting a DVR from Comcast)

Oh one more interesting thing I discovered with the WG Comcast system: You can see all of the "On-Demand" and "Pay-per-View" content that they stream down to the subscribers. When your TV discovers the QAM stations in the 85-X range, don't delete them from your surfing even though most of the time they show "no signal" The stations are not encrypted and when a subscriber orders a movie they come down the cable in the clear and if you happen to be surfing/watching you can see the movie also. The channels get busy at night and on the weekends. I have seen 10 stations active at once all streaming different content. LOL Kinda cool.

I hope this helps QZ1

QZ1

12-28-06, 04:32 PM

QZ1

12-28-06, 04:57 PM

Well, good luck to all of you getting a CC with Comcast. As I stated earlier, my experience with Comcast (on pricing) was so confusing and frustrating on CC ("Digital A/O pricing"), I eventually pulled it and watch via QAM now. I hope your efforts will pave the way for clearer understanding and more reasonable pricing for those of us with shorter tempers and smaller brains. I'd like to have it back, but not for the $8.90/month I was charged.
Thanks. After much reading of the '06 prices/services list, I thought I understood it, and sometimes answered people's question on it, but this '07 list must be ommitting items, and it doesn't explain equipment requirements for the tiers, to get a DVR, A/O equipment and mirroring fees. Maybe the channel tier list will shed some light on this, but that would arrrive until January, mid-Jan. here. Others will get the list earlier.

I know what they requirements were as of '06, so I can only assume they stayed the same. But I like to know for sure the prices, so I can choose the items, before I contact Comcast, and make sure they add the right items to my bill.
------------------

If you want a CC on an A/O is not necessarily that difficult to figure out, assuming they omitted items from the '07 list.

*You don't need a CC for Basic.

*You can choose between one of these, or neither:
For Standard it would be a $4.95 Digital Starter A/O
For Digital Classic/Plus, there is no listing, so it probably still is $8.90

*You can choose this or not:
Whole House Premium Access, it isn't listed, but probably still $4.95.
---------------------

I just want Basic and Premium, so it would be $4.95 total, if anything.
The Digital Plus A/O, if still exists is overpriced, I agree.
---------------------

The difficult part is if I decide to ditch the CC and get an HD box or HD DVR.
They don't show an HD box price, and it probably is more (becasue HD DVR is more).

*HD Box on A/O: It has had two prices depending on service level, but must you have that same service level on the A/O to get the better price?
I would guess the prices are $12 and $7.

*HD DVR on A/O: $17, probably gives you Standard, since it is $5 more than first DVR, but then do you pay an extra $4 for Digital Classic/Plus?
And, then there still might be another $5 for Premium Access.

QZ1

12-28-06, 07:53 PM

My '07 price list doesn't show how much a CC install is.

How much did you pay for a CC install?
When was it?
Did they send an in-house tech?

newsman

12-28-06, 08:22 PM

As of today, I am no longer a Comcast cable modem customer. I am elated to be free of coaxial cable. They can raise their rates and hold some of you hostage (due to their monopoly on the Flyers', Sixers', and Phillies' games). I don't care for CSN or those teams. I just hope Fios becomes reality here in the city limits of Philly... soon.

jhav

12-29-06, 01:08 AM

I am a frequent reader of the Philly HDTV thread - however, with the increasing availability of FiOS TV in Philadelphia, I thought it made sense to setup a seperate thread that is FiOS specific.

I live in Upper Dublin township and am getting my Verizon FiOS TV service installed tomorrow morning. I have been a FiOS internet and telephone subscriber for the past 8 months (6 of those 8 were in Blue Bell) - prior to using FiOS, I was a Comcast high-speed internet user.

I have been blown away by the speed, reliability, and associated customer service of FiOS internet as compared with Comcast - I have the 15/2 package. When I learned that FiOS TV was available in my area last week, and that they offered Comcast SportsNet in both digital and HD flavors, I called and made an installation appointment.

I have been a Comcast Cable subscriber since 1997. Currently, I have 3 DVR boxes, 1 HD TV, and a package including HBO, Showtime, and Starz on top of their Gold Plus package. Under the 2006 pricing, my monthly bill is ~$115 including tax.

FWIW, I also subscribe to D* - only for ST/Superfan. Outside of NFL football Sunday's, my D* H20 receiver is turned off. The HD quality of Comcast is far superior to D* IMHO.

With FiOS TV, I am getting a similar package to what I currently have with Comcast - HBO, Showtime, Starz, + 2 regular boxes and 1 Home Media DVR box. My monthly bill is slated to be ~$97+tax ($43 for Premeir + $13 for Movies + $16 for HBO + $20 for Home Media DVR + $5 2nd receiver + $5 3rd receiver - $5 for 1 year committment). Additionally, I negotiated a $50 rebate check and a $15 per month credit off of my Vz phone bill for the next 6 months.

In addition to the 3 receivers, I will be connecting a straight cable feed to my QAM tuner on my HDTV as well as to my analog kitchen TV.

I have very high hopes for the service and am anxious to have it activated. I will post again following the install.

I look forward to hearing from others in the area that have made the switch to FiOS.

purcellj

12-29-06, 06:45 AM

In addition to the 3 receivers, I will be connecting a straight cable feed to my QAM tuner on my HDTV as well as to my analog kitchen TV.

VZ tech's doesn't like splitting the signal. And they'll probably balk at 5 feeds (when paying for 3). Besides, while I'm not an expert I don't believe you'll be getting picture on the non-STB TV's (QAM or analog).

And the signal strength is very high so before you start splitting after VZ leaves. Ask the tech why they put signal attenuators on the lines running into the STBs. Hint: it burns out the STBs.

John

Carl Jones

12-29-06, 07:58 AM

My '07 price list doesn't show how much a CC install is.

How much did you pay for a CC install?
When was it?
Did they send an in-house tech?

My install was ~ a year ago and yes, they sent an "in house" tech (who told me the CC was not going to cost me extra on my monthly bill). There was no install fee.

Jake1961

12-29-06, 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake1961
Do I need to be doing something with the Sony to pick up all of the standard package channels?

Sony HD's seem a little weird. Sony doesn't view the analog and digital channels as 1 linear stream. You either see analog or you see digital. One of the buttons on your remote should switch between them.
======================================================

Thanks Purcellj - All of the channels appeared when I pressed the "cable" button on the remote.

jeepmatt

12-29-06, 09:07 AM

I was shocked to see that my phone # now came up available for FIOS TV last night - and i'm set up with an install next Thursday, 1/4/07.

Apparently it is now being rolled out to the CO's of Talleyville and Hockessin / Pike Creek.

Great deals - first month discount of $34 - then, $5 / month off if you do a 1 year contract.

I ordered pretty much everything - with 1 HD-DVR and 1 HD box. The 3rd TV in the house, which is really only used for XBox live, will only have the local channels and no STB.

Now if I could only find out when they're rolling out more HD channels! ARGH! ;)

Carl Jones

12-29-06, 02:40 PM

I'll be interested to here how the FIOS experience is for you. Are you getting internet as well? I can't believe Comcast is rolling out a price increase with FIOS just becoming available in our area. We'll see how this plays out for them.

Carl Jones

12-29-06, 02:58 PM

And I still can get TNTHD in the clear on 110.2. I only use these as backups, since I have Dish and get my local HD channels over 3 tuners, that is more than enough to record from.[/QUOTE] (as posted by Sheetmetal Man)

I went back to look up your note on this. I get Universal on 110.2, I no longer get TNT HD at all via QAM. Does anyone else?

jeepmatt

12-29-06, 03:54 PM

QZ1

12-29-06, 04:29 PM

Mark521

12-29-06, 06:23 PM

Those of you with Comcast, please look at your 2007 Prices/Services List, (not your last bill) and see if these items exist anymore. If so, how much are they? And, please note your system, as well.

Whole House Premium Access
Digital Classic/Plus A/O
HD Box

Garden State Prices
Effective January 1, 2007

"Whole House Premium Access" - Does not exist.

"Digital Classic/Plus A/O" - I'm not sure what this is, mine shows the following listings:

Digital Classic, was $9.95, now $11.95
Digital Classic Channels, was $10.10, now $7.75
Digital Plus Channels, was $15.10, now $10.75
Digital Additional Outlet Service (w/ subscription to Digital Classic or Plus), was 3.10, now $3.75

"HD Box" - See below:

HDTV Converter w/o subscription to Digital Classic or Plus, was $10.25, now $9.90
HDTV Converter w/ subscription to Digital Classic or Plus, was $1.00, now $5.00

caesar1

12-29-06, 07:39 PM

Comcast's prices/services list hasn't been easy to understand in recent years, due in large part to not separating out Services and Mirroring Fees, from Boxes and Cablecards. I think I was quite proficient in this past year's pricing structure, but this new year they have really gotten worse, in terms of accuracy and clarity on the Comcast-Willow Grove list.

If you are getting a price increase in Jan. '07, then you got the new price list, but nobody has gotten an '07 bill yet.

I am asking now to get the '07 prices clear, because I am interested in getting a secondary TV that is almost sold out, and I need to decide on a CC, HD STB, or HD DVR and service mirroring, before I buy.

I know areas vary, but if other areas have these items, maybe I can figure out approximately our local pricing for the combo of equipment and mirroring I choose.

1. The 'free' CableCard, on a primary outlet is actually in place of an STB that it paid for in Digital services; (it is $4.15 for a la carte Premiums).
But, for an A/O with just Basic (doesn't need a CC) and a Premium, I think the CC would be free?
I don't see how any of the Digital A/O fees would apply. Possibly it wouldn't code the the Local channels correctly, even that I doubt.
And, then I would just pay for the premium access (if that fee still exists.)

2. I don't see a 'Whole House Premium Access' $5 listed, so I figure, great, but was it really discontinued?
To me it sounds like an ommission.

3. 'Digital Starter A/O' replaces 'Enhanced A/O', it is still $5, this give the Digital version of Standard, fine.
But, what if one wants 'Digital Classic/Plus A/O', it used to be $9, do you get it with the Digital Starter A/O?
To me it sounds like an ommision. If it is, I would pass, it is overpriced.

4. there is no 'HD STB', it used to be $5 above Digital, Without Digital it was $9.
Does the second TV also have to be subbed to a 'Digital A/O' fee to get the $5 HD STB price on the second TV?
Was it discontinued, do you have to get an HD DVR now?
Again, it sounds like an ommision. Probably is $2 more also.

5. A second DVR will now be $17, does this include any service mirroring, it appears from the fee, that it would include access to Standard, but what if one wanted Digital Classic/Plus?
There is no fee listed, and it couldn't be $9 because the second DVR is already $5 more.

So, please look at your '07 price lists, and tell me if have these items, and understand any of it better.
Whatever I can't get answered, I will have to e-mail Comcast on Jan. 1, as online chat would take all day.

Well I got my first '07 bill (I'm in Whitemarsh Township, MONTCO -- considered Norristown for Comcast service). They added a "new" a/o (additional outlet charge) of $8.90 for my cable card. I have 2 HD TVs. One has the dual tuner DVR box. The 2nd TV has the cable card.

My total bill went from $132/ month (that includes HBO and Internet service) to
$146/month. Broken down to $67 for digital plus, $10 for HBO, $8.90 for the aforementioned additonal outlet (i.e, the falsely labeled cable card charge); $11.95 for the DVR and $45 for Internet.

For 15 months they charged nothing for the cable card (other than the initial installation).

I was now told that they did an "audit" -- and in auditing my account they realized that it should have never been set up without the additional outlet charge for the cable card (despite my negotiations in the beginning to not have any additional charges).

This is absurd. They are using an $8.90 charge essentially as a cable card rental charge. Which is telling me, as the consumer, to really rent their HD box -- since for only a couple dollars more, you then get the guide, pay per view, etc (which you dont' get with cable card).

There should be NO reason for any additional outlet charges -- only box rentals. The signal comes into your home -- it costs them nothing extra to have other TVS hooked up. If they want to charge a cable card rental, it should be nominal (like $1.50).

I managed to talk to 2 supervisors, who finally agreed to waive (for ONLY 4 months), the $8.90 charge. But it will go back on after that. What crooks.

If a DVR is only $11.95, why should I pay $8.90 for a cable card (ie., additional outlet)? That's ridiculous.

QZ1

12-29-06, 08:08 PM

Garden State Prices
Effective January 1, 2007

"Whole House Premium Access" - Does not exist.

"Digital Classic/Plus A/O" - I'm not sure what this is, mine shows the following listings:

Digital Classic, was $9.95, now $11.95
Digital Classic Channels, was $10.10, now $7.75
Digital Plus Channels, was $15.10, now $10.75
Digital Additional Outlet Service (w/ subscription to Digital Classic or Plus), was 3.10, now $3.75

"HD Box" - See below:

HDTV Converter w/o subscription to Digital Classic or Plus, was $10.25, now $9.90
HDTV Converter w/ subscription to Digital Classic or Plus, was $1.00, now $5.00
Did 'Whole House Premium Access' exist there in '06?

Is a 'Digital Starter A/O' in existence there?
This is essentially the Digital version of 'Standard' on an A/O

(A 'Digital Classic/Plus A/O' was the new '06 label for a 'Digital A/O'.)

(And, I figured the HD Box still existed.)

How about CC/DVR/STB installation fee(s)?

It is amazing how they omitted a few items from our price list.

Thanks for the info.

mitchjs

12-29-06, 08:08 PM

well... comcast didnt become a GIANT by giving stuff away... they charge what they can get, and what the government regulatations allow... they have no real competition...
and you fios jumpers... its only short term!!!

I switched to FIOS for internert, why not because its cheaper, its only artifically cheaper, its MUCHO FASTER!!!!

i needed upspeed and fios was way ahead of comcast...

all you fios jumpers, its only cheaper because verizon has no customers, within in a few years (my guess two) the prices will be so close to the same it wont really matter

lets just hope fios is better service, not that i have any issues with comcast... it just works...

to me its only about HD content, i dont watch much else, really wouldnt miss any channel below 200...

i would like 24/7 NFLHD thou :)

dishNetwork isnt competition, just a little thorn in comcasts side..
DirecTV is a big ass thorn, but if they lost full rights to NFL Package, say byebye to DTV
Fios is prob not even a pin prick yet

my 2.5 cents
mitch

QZ1

12-29-06, 08:29 PM

Well I got my first '07 bill (I'm in Whitemarsh Township, MONTCO -- considered Norristown for Comcast service). They added a "new" a/o (additional outlet charge) of $8.90 for my cable card. I have 2 HD TVs. One has the dual tuner DVR box. The 2nd TV has the cable card.
I'm on the next system over, Willow Grove.

I don't think it can be a January '07 bill, because it isn't January, yet.
If the billing cycle is showing that it covers part of Dec. and part of January, then it is still '06 prices.
If the entire billing cycle is January '07, then it would be '07 prices.
If so, I didn't know they billing before the cycle started.

This is absurd. They are using an $8.90 charge essentially as a cable card rental charge. Which is telling me, as the consumer, to really rent their HD box -- since for only a couple dollars more, you then get the guide, pay per view, etc (which you dont' get with cable card).

There should be NO reason for any additional outlet charges -- only box rentals. The signal comes into your home -- it costs them nothing extra to have other TVS hooked up. If they want to charge a cable card rental, it should be nominal (like $1.50).
No, actually they are charging that as a 'service mirroring fee' and a 'CC or STB rental' combined.
The FCC allows these fees on anything above Standard.

CCs are not really free, on a primary outlet, a CC fee is covered with a $4.15 non-itemized box rental fee in Digital service, which is overpriced for a CC, as you can see Tivo users get the second CC on one DVR for $1.50.
On A/Os, the you can see how much goes to equipment and how much to mirroring.

But, I do agree the $8.90 is absurd, that is why I wouldn't pay it, because it is indeed optional.
(It is essentially $4.15 for an STB or CC and $4.75 for mirroring)

If you can do without all the HD channels on a Digital Classic/Plus A/O, you can downgrade to a 'Digital Starter A/O', which gives you the Digital version of Standard on the A/O.

If you can do without Standard on the A/O, you can get a CC just for Premiums, and it would just be $5 for the Premium Access (one HD channel each), if that exists anymore, if not, it would truly be free.

If you don't specify which services you want mirrored, they automatically mirror all of them.

JTFX6552

12-29-06, 08:54 PM

As analog gets closer to being shutoff, I wonder what , if anything will happen. Joe sixpack is used to paying for cable, and hooking as many TV's as he wants to it, and still getting 60-70 channels.

With HD and Digital, having to pay $8.00 to $17.00 per TV gets to be a bit extreme, not to mention the aggrevation of finding a place for the set top box at every TV.

Seems like we have taken two steps forward, but more than a step back to the 70's 80's before "cable ready" TV's.

caesar1

12-29-06, 10:50 PM

I'm on the next system over, Willow Grove.

I don't think it can be a January '07 bill, because it isn't January, yet.
If the billing cycle is showing that it covers part of Dec. and part of January, then it is still '06 prices.
If the entire billing cycle is January '07, then it would be '07 prices.
If so, I didn't know they billing before the cycle started.

No, actually they are charging that as a 'service mirroring fee' and a 'CC or STB rental' combined.
The FCC allows these fees on anything above Standard.

CCs are not really free, on a primary outlet, a CC fee is covered with a $4.15 non-itemized box rental fee in Digital service, which is overpriced for a CC, as you can see Tivo users get the second CC on one DVR for $1.50.
On A/Os, the you can see how much goes to equipment and how much to mirroring.

But, I do agree the $8.90 is absurd, that is why I wouldn't pay it, because it is indeed optional.
(It is essentially $4.15 for an STB or CC and $4.75 for mirroring)

If you can do without all the HD channels on a Digital Classic/Plus A/O, you can downgrade to a 'Digital Starter A/O', which gives you the Digital version of Standard on the A/O.

If you can do without Standard on the A/O, you can get a CC just for Premiums, and it would just be $5 for the Premium Access (one HD channel each), if that exists anymore, if not, it would truly be free.

If you don't specify which services you want mirrored, they automatically mirror all of them.

I'm looking at the bill -- it says from 1/2/07 to 2/1/07. Although issued on 12/20/06. They bill ahead of time I guess.

The FCC should NOT allow the mirroring fee -- that would be like the phone company charging me for every phone in the house hooked up to the same line. Its a bogus charge.

And if I got an additional HD Box instead of the CC, it would be what -- $1.00 more? They are trying to force cable box rentals, that's all.

You should pay rental fees for equipment, and one price for the service. So $65 or whatever for digital plus, then each box should be a rental, with the price lowered for each subsequent box (multi box discount).

I thought if you had digital plus in one location, you had to get the same in every location in the house (that had an HD box or cable card). At least I was told that a while back? Are you sure you can get a lesser HD service at one location than another in the same house?

Would my pricing be better if the cable card was primary, and the additional outlet was the HD DVR box that I have? Not sure if that would change anything.

What is the charge for an additional HD box (or DVR) instead of a cable card? Is it still $8.90 (if so, you definitely get ripped with a cable card, since you get less functionality)?

ceprise

12-29-06, 11:21 PM

I'm a Comcast Digital Plus subscriber, with the digital box hooked up to a SDTV. My Black Friday Olevia 226V with NTSC/ATSC tuner is hooked up to the direct Comcast feed in a bedroom. Four (4) Comcast telephone service reps could not or would not give me the local HD channel locations. Comcast's website says "*HDTV broadcast signals are included with Basic Service."

Reading this forum, I did a cable channel search with my tuner and found the following BROADCAST CHANNEL (over the air) locations (12/29/06).

89.1-NBC10HD, 89.3-ACTION NEWS NOW, 89.4-ABC6HD, 89.5-NBC10 WEATHER PLUS, 90.1-WHYY12ARTS, 90.4-WHYY12HD, 90.4-KYW/CBS3HD, 110.1-THECWHD, 111.1-FOX29HD, 111.2-MYTVHD, 111.3-THETUBE.

When I asked about the "must carry rule" as it applies to the local broadcast HD signals, the Comcast reps had no idea how it applied. They only knew the mantra, that to get HD signals, I needed a Comcast HDSTB.

FiOS, and the need for a STB on each TV is not yet attractive to me. I have tried an amplified over the air antenna, and do get excellent local HDTV signals. But switching back and forth between on-air and cable is time consuming, as I need to do a new channel search each time I switch.

I am glad that this forum exists to share information and frustrations.

Mark521

12-30-06, 11:10 AM

Q1: Did 'Whole House Premium Access' exist there in '06?

Q2: Is a 'Digital Starter A/O' in existence there?
This is essentially the Digital version of 'Standard' on an A/O
(A 'Digital Classic/Plus A/O' was the new '06 label for a 'Digital A/O'.)

Q3: How about CC/DVR/STB installation fee(s)?

A1: I don't remember seeing a "whole house premium" before, but I can't confirm that it didn't exist in 2006.

A2: "Comcast Standard Service w/ Digital Converter & Remote Additional Outlet (each Outlet), was $4.85, now $ 4.20"

A3: I don't see any charges for installations of STBs, DVRs or CCs.

jhav

12-30-06, 01:06 PM

As I previously posted, I had FiOS TV installed yesterday- here's my initial impressions:

1) INSTALL: The whole process took a while considering that I already have FiOS internet service installed in my home. The tech arrived around 10 and didn't leave until 3.

The install was going real smooth until the Multi-room HD/DVR box would not get any digital channels - The tech had to swap it with another at the local Vz office. Once he got the box working, I did not receive any of the "HD National" channels (ESPN-HD, TNT-HD, HDNet, etc) - this seemed odd as I was getting the HD Local and Premium channels ok. The install rep had me call VZ Customer Service - after getting transferred around and around, I finally got through to a CSR that was accurately able to troubleshoot/resolve the issue.

As it turned out, the rep who took my order did not 'tick the box in the system for the HD channels.' The rep that I got on the phone yesterday was able to make the change, though it took about 20 minutes for the update to propagate to my box.

The install rep was kind enough to split the FiOS cable feed to all TV's in my house - 3 where he installed the boxes, and the kitchen TV which only uses an analog tuner. Additionally, he checked and replaced/re-capped some older coax cables throughout my home where necessary - though most did not require any maintenance.

2) OFFERING/QUALITY - As others have reported previously, there is a noticeable improvement on the broadcast quality of the non-HD channels - on both my HD LCD Projection TV as well as on my standard CRT sets. The HD picture is also improved - not so much in the quality of the picture, but in the significant reduction in macro-blocking that I have become accustomed to in fast-moving sequences.

A good example/comparison of this is with the opening sequence for SportsCenter. With Comcast, I became used to the rapidly moving sequences digitizing frequently. Watching with FiOS last night, I barely noticed any blocking. From this standpoint, I'd say it was a 90% improvement over Comcast.

3) REMOTE CONTROL - The FiOS remote is cluttered an not as easy to use as the Comcast remote that it replaced. The good news is that Vz is in the process of replacing the remote with one that is very similar to the Comcast remote --- the tech gave me a brochure on the new remote and told me to call in and request replacement in mid-January as that is when they are expected to arrive.

3a) SET TOP BOX - The only thing worth mentioning here is that the Vz box is much more responsive than the Comcast box. I have not experienced any lag when scrolling through channel lists nor have I experienced any freeze-up with the controls when fast-forwarding/rewinding DVR/Live content.

4) CHANNEL OFFERING - For me as a sports fan, the most important channel offered by Vz is Comcast SportsNet (both digital and HD). IMHO, this channel alone puts Vz in a unique position of really being able to compete with Comcast as an entertainment/TV provider.

That said, one of the biggest differences here is that Vz still offers the "West" feeds of every movie channel provided - unlike Comcast which nixed most of the West feeds several months ago to save some bandwidth. Additionally, I was pleased to see that Fox-HD has been added to the channel offering - I was concerned as it was not listed on the channel guide on the VZ Website. According to the tech, it was just added in the past week and the website had not been updated with the new channel list as of yet. There is also a greater offering of HD channels as compared with Comcast - I believe the only HD channel that you lose in the switch is INHD.

Verizion's HD lineup currently includes:
NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS (WHYY), PBS (WNJT), CW, WPHL, TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, NFL Network, Comcast SportsNet, HD Net, HD Net Movies, Universal HD, Discovery HD, Wealth HD, National Geographic HD, MTV HD, HBO*, Cinemax*, Showtime*, TMC*, Starz*.

5) VOD (On-Demand) - My initial take is that Comcast offers a greater On Demand selection than Vz. One thing that is noticeably absent from Vz's VOD offering is the lack of any HD content - I am hopeful that this will be added in the near future. As for content, it seems that Comcast has some options that VZ does not - I did not see any CBS or NBC offerings - additionally, I did not notice any local content (Comcast SportsNet programming - no real surprise here, Eagles-specific content in NFL-network, Yo! Rocky - I miss this one, etc.) My 4 year old daughter was excited that Vz offers Disney On Demand - this was not available via Comcast. As I play with Vz VOD more, I will post additional info.

6) MORE INFO TO COME: For PIP purposes, I split the cable for my HDTV and ran one directly to the cable-in jack with the other to the Moto box. I did run the auto-program last night --- I believe it found ~30 analog channels with ~350 digital channels. As was previously reported, almost all digital channels are encrypted. The locals, their HD counterparts, and the music channels were the only ones that I could tune to in my initial attempts - though I did not try them all.

For the kitchen TV, the 30+ analog channels come in nicely - as most of you are aware, the analog offering does NOT include ESPN, Comcast SportsNet, CNN, etc. It does include all of the local channels plus WGN plus several others that I didn't take note of. For my family, this is sufficient for the kitchen TV.

7) COMCAST CANCELLATION - Shortly after the install was complete, I returned all 3 of my Comcast DVR boxes to their Ply Mtg location. From there, they were able to cancel my account effective yesterday, though the service will not be turned off until next Thursday. The cancellation went smoothly and the Comcast rep was even able to give me a credit for a 4th box that was incorrectly being billed to my account since early October ---- this was quite an accomplishment as I have spent many hours on the phone over the past 2+ months with various Comcast reps in attempt to resolve this issue with ZERO success and MUCHO frustration. For any of you experiencing similar challenges with Comcast, you may want to consider a drive to you local center.

All in all, so far I am very happy with my FiOS experience.

QZ1

12-30-06, 05:53 PM

A1: I don't remember seeing a "whole house premium" before, but I can't confirm that it didn't exist in 2006.

A2: "Comcast Standard Service w/ Digital Converter & Remote Additional Outlet (each Outlet), was $4.85, now $ 4.20"

A3: I don't see any charges for installations of STBs, DVRs or CCs.

For #3, do they have an 'upgrade service installation' fee (or similar)?

Thanks for the insight.

newsman

12-30-06, 06:14 PM

Just wanted to say, I received my January bill for Comcast today. Note, I was previously a TWC customer and was switched over against my wishes. I was told I had no choice. Well, my choice was to leave Comcast. But, I digress. The bill had a total of $60.95. $57.95 for service from 1/6-2/5, and a $3.00/month rental charge on the cable modem. TWC had a standard $54.95 rate for the service and cable modem combined. Now that I am using VZ DSL and saving a whole lot more, Comcast loses. :D Anyone know when Fios is coming to Philly?

QZ1

12-30-06, 06:32 PM

I'm looking at the bill -- it says from 1/2/07 to 2/1/07. Although issued on 12/20/06. They bill ahead of time I guess.)

Well, I knew they billed ahead of time, but I didn't know if was that much ahead. Since the entire cycle of the bill is indeed in '07, those would be '07 prices.

The FCC should NOT allow the mirroring fee -- that would be like the phone company charging me for every phone in the house hooked up to the same line. Its a bogus charge.

I totally agree, but all one can do is complain to the FCC.

And if I got an additional HD Box instead of the CC, it would be what -- $1.00 more? They are trying to force cable box rentals, that's all.

No, if you are going to mirror all of your services on the A/O, then the HD box, according to '06, would be $5; but based on the '07 DVR price increase, my guess is that an HD box will now be $7 more. (They don't list it here.)
If you don't mirror Standard or Digital Classic/Plus, but just a Premium, then it is my understanding that the CC would save $10 (or $12 ?) over an HD box. But is it all so complicated to be sure. :(

You should pay rental fees for equipment, and one price for the service. So $65 or whatever for digital plus, then each box should be a rental, with the price lowered for each subsequent box (multi box discount).

I agree, if they just separeted services from equipment, this would all be so much clearer. But, one shouldn't expect discounts on the box rentals, as they are regulated. The thing is with non-itemized equipment in services and A/Os, the cost of a CC is inflated, plus those mirroring fees are too much.

I thought if you had digital plus in one location, you had to get the same in every location in the house (that had an HD box or cable card). At least I was told that a while back? Are you sure you can get a lesser HD service at one location than another in the same house?

First, remember there is no HD service per se.
And don't believe what they tell you.
Read your price list and tell them what you want. Of course, now they are omitting prices. :(
They list a 'Digital Starter A/O' and a 'Digital Classic/Plus' (well the latter is omitted, it has to still exist).
There was 'Whole Premium Access' (I don't know if it exists anymore.)
There has never been any requirement on the list saying you must mirror all of your services.
I don't think the FCC would even allow that.

Would my pricing be better if the cable card was primary, and the additional outlet was the HD DVR box that I have? Not sure if that would change anything.

I can't answer that w/o knowing what the new second DVR price of $16.95 (as opposed to $11.95) includes in terms of mirroring.
My educated guess is it could very well be the same. If not, I think it would be better to keep the HD DVR primary.

What is the charge for an additional HD box (or DVR) instead of a cable card? Is it still $8.90 (if so, you definitely get ripped with a cable card, since you get less functionality)?
They way it worked here in '06 is that the $8.90 covered both the regular box rental and the mirroring of Digital Classic/Plus and Standard.
To upgrade to an HD box on A/O would be $5 (now $7?) more.
But if you only mirror a premium you might have to pay the 'Basic sub' rate of $10 (now $12 ?).
DVR was $10 more; now it is $17, but maybe include Standard mirroring, maybe Digital Classic/Plus, it just isn't specified. :(

The CSRs can't this stuff right much of the time.
Heck, they could conduct a class on this. :rolleyes: :D
Without all of the info. on the list, I can't figure it all out, like I think I did in '06.
But, I hope this helps answer at least of your Qs. :)

hithere

12-30-06, 06:43 PM

Just wanted to say that my number came up as available for FIOS tv/internet when I checked today. I have a Bear, DE address that's listed as Lexington Farms on the FIOS website.

I got a few questions for those that might know (Verizon is closed until Monday): Does the cheaper "La Connexion" service have any impediments to a non-Spanish speaker when it comes to locals and non-Spanish channels? I'm looking for a package similar to "Digital Classic" on Comcast, where I have about 30 cable channels plus all the HD they have to offer, and I'm not interested in many of the offerings in the "Premier" lineup. Also, what is the fee for the non-Home Media DVR they have listed on their site? I'm not interested in serving the DVR to my other tv's. Also, is the price of the HD reciever the only add-on price where HD is concerned, or is there a separate premium for content?

jhav

12-30-06, 06:51 PM

VZ tech's doesn't like splitting the signal. And they'll probably balk at 5 feeds (when paying for 3).

My installer did not give me any problems - he installed all 5 feeds - 3 w/ boxes, 2 straight coax feeds.

Besides, while I'm not an expert I don't believe you'll be getting picture on the non-STB TV's (QAM or analog).

I get 25-30 chanels using a straight coax connection on my analog, non-STB TVs.

And the signal strength is very high so before you start splitting after VZ leaves. Ask the tech why they put signal attenuators on the lines running into the STBs. Hint: it burns out the STBs.

I was prepared to ask this question, but they did not install any attenuators on my lines. Not sure why this would differ from one install to another.

QZ1

12-30-06, 07:55 PM

Four (4) Comcast telephone service reps could not or would not give me the local HD channel locations. Comcast's website says "*HDTV broadcast signals are included with Basic Service."

When I asked about the "must carry rule" as it applies to the local broadcast HD signals, the Comcast reps had no idea how it applied. They only knew the mantra, that to get HD signals, I needed a Comcast HDSTB.
Chances are none of the reps. actually knew the QAM channel locations anyway; the engineers would know.
Many of the reps. think you need an HD STB (or Cablecard, which they will discourage, if asked) to get HD channels.
These channel locations change periodically, so if you lose a local channel(s), rescan the Digital channels on the QAM tuner.

Mark521

12-30-06, 09:14 PM

For #3, do they have an 'upgrade service installation' fee (or similar)?

Thanks for the insight.

No.

jeepmatt

12-31-06, 07:03 AM

Jhav-
Excellent review of your install. I'll be sure to report on mine this coming Thursday.

jeepmatt

12-31-06, 07:05 AM

I got a few questions for those that might know (Verizon is closed until Monday): Does the cheaper "La Connexion" service have any impediments to a non-Spanish speaker when it comes to locals and non-Spanish channels? I'm looking for a package similar to "Digital Classic" on Comcast, where I have about 30 cable channels plus all the HD they have to offer, and I'm not interested in many of the offerings in the "Premier" lineup. Also, what is the fee for the non-Home Media DVR they have listed on their site? I'm not interested in serving the DVR to my other tv's. Also, is the price of the HD reciever the only add-on price where HD is concerned, or is there a separate premium for content?

The regular HD-DVR is $12.95 / mo.
The regular HD box is $9.95 / mo.

From what I can tell, you must subscribe to the Premier in order to get the HD channels - but i'm not certain of that. There is not a separate charge at this time for "HD content".

QZ1

12-31-06, 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1
For #3, do they have an 'upgrade service installation' fee (or similar)?

No.
Here, it used to be $15.95.

There, did it used to be something similar or was it free?

To others, did you pay a fee for CC install?

Mark521

12-31-06, 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1
For #3, do they have an 'upgrade service installation' fee (or similar)?

Here, it used to be $15.95.

There, did it used to be something similar or was it free?

To others, did you pay a fee for CC install?

In June of this year I switched from "limited basic plus the value pak" (no stb of any kind) to an HD DVR and the Digital Plus service package. I went to the local service center, made the switch (also picked up a new cable modem to replace my old RCA modem) and picked a new HD DVR (SA 8300HD). To the best of my knowledge I was not charged an installation fee.

I can't find a 2006 (or earlier) Comcast price list, so I don't know what other fees where or where not listed. If I do run across one, I'll post it here.

neeshu89

12-31-06, 06:36 PM

I didn't have to pay for CC installation

DUSlider

12-31-06, 10:25 PM

My question relates to Comcast Sportsnet HDTV using their Moto box and my HDTV (Olevia 537H). Pretty much during the current Flyers game the broadcast is not in HD. The picture quality is crap, often skipping and blurry. This is on channel 200. Now, this is an away game so maybe that is why, however I called Comcast and they denied any issues, said they were watching it in HD in the office and there wasn't a problem. They said it was a problem with my TV (I know it's not, I could go to ESPN HD and get a great picture of one of the College Bowl Games....)

Pretty much I am getting a 4:3 picture with the HD graphic side bars and the little Comcast Sportsnet HDTV logo in the lower left.

As I don't know any better, is this always how Flyers games are? Is it only because it is an away game? If I want Flyers Hockey in HD all the time am I going to have to buy the NHL package that Comcast has (even though I have no interest in other teams) just to get the Flyers in HD?

mitchjs

12-31-06, 11:05 PM

Just an away game.... i cant remmeber when an away game was in HD
maybe a DC game...

when they home, they in HD

and the jeckyness is a problem with the feed for Carolina...

but the game was good, actually watchable flyers game

E
A
G
L
E
S

EAGLES

mitch

DUSlider

12-31-06, 11:26 PM

QZ1

01-01-07, 05:45 PM

I didn't have to pay for CC installation
When you requested the CC install, did you ask for a free install, or did they volunteer that it would be free, or did you balk at the fee?
(Last time it was listed here, it was just $15.95 for a service upgrade.)

macdonwald

01-01-07, 06:43 PM

LMolineux

01-02-07, 01:24 AM

Well at my work and place of business i am about to jump off of comcrap and go over to Verizon FiOS internet the cable isnt yet ready but once that is done shoot its a DONE DEAL for me. I own the friggen modem also from comcrap so i can either sell it or use it for a stress toy. Bring on the speed and cleaner clearer pictures and more channels. And for a while at least a Savings in money for the business. Shoot its a Win Win Deal for now. $103.00 for 7M/768k. $70 aprox. for 15M/2M speed do the math people. LOL its a great deal as its $59.99 for Businesses to have Dynamic IP for 15M/2M. We broadcast once and a while the live webcam so in all i can bump up the quality it sends out at and have much more viewers and less drop offs. That will help. Ardmore,PA is the area.

ohendo

01-02-07, 03:46 PM

Has anyone else lost ABC-HD, NBC-HD, and CBS-HD here in Philly over the last few days? I was also having an issue with on-demand, but that seems to have resolved. Any suggestions for a quick fix aside from unplugging the box and plugging it back in--which is all the customer service reps could suggest?

I didn't lose any of my HD channels. Everything's a go with my service. I know misery loves company, but sorry....

No suggestions as to a fix.

GeekGirl

01-03-07, 08:37 PM

macdonwald: Can you give some more information on what you mean by "lost" channels? Are you getting a "No signal" error (black screen) or is the picture broken up with lots of pixelation?

Some detective work here. Ask your STB to tell you what's going on. Go to a bad channel, then hit Power off and "select" within 5 seconds. A diagnostic screen will appear. Go to D04 "In Band Status" and report back the AGC and SNR settings, including if it shows "Good", "Fair", or "Poor". Power off will put you back to normal operation.

Do this for each channel and post your results. That's the best way to tell if your signal level at the STB is OK. The HD channels have a higher signal level requirement than SD digital or analog. If it's marginal, your STB will tell you with these numbers.

AGC = Automatic Gain Control, SNR = Signal to Noise Ratio

I occasionally get a network error with on-demand here in Lower Bucks, but it's too elusive to track with consistency.

Quatre

01-05-07, 07:42 AM

I'm totally aggravated from my 2 day install of fios at this point.

the first day was an all day affair with 2 guys in and out of my house up and down in all rooms on all floors and attic. sometimes they'd wear the booties over their shoes but many times not and needles to say you get a lot of dirt.

i was super tired and they were there all day and even still when wife got home.

i told the guy from teh start not to disconnect the comcast aas we still had it and would want it in some rooms for the basic adn to plug in comcast dvr boxes to watch stuff we still had on them. they said they coldn't do that so i told him well i have comcast cable modem so make sure that is left alone as it was a direct shot from outside.

again it was an all deal ordeal and real pita. i hate having guys in my house and they check everything out and ask all these questions.

long story short they got 2 hd dvr boxes installed and one non dvr hd box in and working. but not without a lot of mess and aggravation etc. etc. only for me to find what i've already read and known to expect. a slightly better std def pq but a crappy remote and worse guide and dvr funcitons etc.

the vod is even less and worse then i thought it would be as well.

not till the next day do i notice my comcast cable modem isnt' working. they disconnected it. i spent a lot of time on the phone with a cust service rep and they get the same techs back to reconnect my comcast cable modem internet, check the non stb tvs to get the local chans working cus they had nothing but snow and get the smaller tv in kitchen to do full screen for non hd chans.

they guy messes with my tv remote and the box and couldnt' do it. it was like that on the other 2 tvs too but i didnt' mind as much on my big one and my one plasma has an auto stretch feature.

anyway they come back and they try to get the cable modem working again and can't only for the guy to realize that he took the amp comcast had on their off and threw it out and basically saying they dont have one and so i can't get comcast cable modem back on unless i prob would have had ot have comcast back out which would be who knows when and it wasn't their fault so they would have to charge someone probably me and theni would have to take up with verizon.

i needed internet back asap so thats how i was forced into getting verion fios internet, which supposedly is a clearer winner over comcast internet because its faster and doesnt' fluctuate due to trafic. meanwhile i'm not convinced of all that and i was getting fasters speeds with comcast then i am on fios with the 5/2 option. i think i just had a great comcast connection

so it was a whole ordearl to get that working and when i called earlier in the day they said they'd throw in another box but its prob just free for a year as part of the promotion and just a std def box so not a big favor they did.

they guy tried connected the hd box in kitchen with component thinking that would make it full screen and i dont know wha t he was thinking as i told him it would be same. i forgot what else he tired but we decided on just putting a std def box there. as the only way and at first he was going to connect it with coax till i told him thast the worst picture so then he brought rca and i looked at the std box and saw the best video it had was svideo so he got that for me.

it was now full screen but later i realize on other tv with hd box that all you have ot do is go into the menu of the box with box off and change the override from off to 480p or stretch. I can't believe how little these guys know and yet how they act its really annoying.

so now i'm pissed i tooka std def box over hd just to get full screen cus the stupid techs didn't know how to hit one button. then when i call verizon to see how to do it if its diff then comcast moto box i get this foreign guy who explained the simplest thing in most messed up way and isissted you had to do it on the box when you dont. bottom line was my box wasn't working to get hte menu up when off and i had to unplug it a few times and whatever else get signal sent and finally it was owrking like it should like comcast motos have by using remote to hit menu with power off.

What is better override choice though? 480p or stretch. i thought 480p as you dont just want to stretch the 4:3 image as it would look as much and rather set the res lower to fill screen but actually the benefit of stretch is that your tv doens't do the slow transisition between sd and hd and i think it looks about the same as 480p so stretch might be good.

so they got router in and inet working and got tv in same room as inet working which i moved the hd box up to though at first the guy acted like he wouldn't be able to do that that night until he realized he could with no problem.

the phone support person though i should have locals on another tv with no stb but he said he would have to run a line to even though there is already a coax there and it was a lot of trouble and pain just for locals so basically making me have to accept snow.

i just didn't get if they were supposed to reconnect the comcast cable modem if he hadn't stupidly discarded their amp then i could have also hd comcast connection on other room to use my comcast dvrs for now and then possibly keep comcast for basic cable chans on a couple tvs that might even still work after i canceled comcast which would be ideal and good for fios cus i would keep them and still have my comcast basicas on a couple tv without stb.

then with the crappy large actiontec router i called up and the guy said yes when i asked if it was a/b/g and sure enough its just b/g. also i get a weaker signal form it on xbox 360 then i did with a cheap netgear b/g router.

and the fios actiontec router has a bad NAT that wont allow xbox live. i called up tech support and was on with a guy for awhile who did all types of crap by logging onto my comptuer which i hate. its scary letting them control your computer andwatch them move your mosue around and do crap. i'm not helpless i dont know why they cna't just tell you what to do for an educated tech savy custoemr like myself.

the guy couldn't get the nat better for the actiontec nad he couldn't connect the netgear router ot the actiontec after spending a ton of time on my pc and then on my laptop .

first day they set some stuff like external boxes in garage and had to use an extension cord of mine until i can have an electrician add an extra outlet box there instead of just putting everything by the one. then 2nd day they broke the access panel to my attic.

what a mess and ordeal. now i wonder whats entailed in at least getting comcast tv back. i figured i would be better off for the new wiring in plance but actually i think comcast will have to come out and re do everything and re add amps etc. because all verizon did is mess all that up.

in the end totally aggravated , far from satisfied, wasted lots of time and had my house turned upside down only for an inferior service to comcast and ot have to switch back anyway. sucks.

also as another annoyance, since there were other fios installs in my neighborhood, guys kept coming to my door and asking for the guys working on my house. they didnt' need to help or be there for any reason they just wanted to be nosy and come in and check my house out and all my tvs. you couldn't really say no and be an ahole but i ended up feeling more pissed that i let them in. this was one of many minor and major annoyances for an install all for a service that ends up being inferior to what i had.

jeepmatt

01-05-07, 10:06 AM

JerryR

01-05-07, 11:29 AM

JWhip

01-05-07, 12:30 PM

Jerry when you get the chance, post your impressions of any difference in the PQ from the Comcast and FiOS boxes with SD and HD and let us know of the firewire is enabled.

ohendo

01-05-07, 12:31 PM

Good Fios review Jerry, thanks. Shows what can happen when the installers know a thing or two about what they are installing.

I had Fios internet installed about 6 months ago, and it's been flawless, once I figured out how to configure my Sunrocket VOIP box with their ActionTec router. I called Comcast to tell them to cancel my cable, I am going to go with Verizon Fios Tv. Well, they countered with a deal too good to pass up: Digital Silver, HBO, and DVR for $60 a month for 6 months. Okay, I'll hold off on switching. No problemo.

Although I want to switch, as all of your reviews above show that Fios PQ is superior to Comcast, maybe it's for the best, so as to let Verizon work out some kinks and let their installers gain some experience. So I'll check back with Comcast in 6 months for another counter offer, otherwise I'll schedule a Fios Install.

Quick question: What is a QAM tuner? My dad has a new plasma, states it has an ATSC/NTSC tuner. But we can't pick up the high def channels on his cable when wired directly to the plasma. Apparently you need not only an ATSC/NTSC tuner, but also one that includes QAM? Confused on that one.

Thanks.

JerryR

01-05-07, 12:51 PM

JWhip - I'll do some A/B tests tonight or over the weekend on a selection of analog, digital SD and digital HD channels and post my results.

Ohendo - ATSC is how HD signals that are broadcast OTA (over the air - i.e. received from an antenna) are encoded. QAM is how digital signals are encoded over cable (coax).

Jim Hef

01-05-07, 02:51 PM

Jerry, also please tell us where you are located. I have FIOS internet, but the TV side is not available yet in my area, Lower Makefield Township. I'd like to check why your area is now available, and mine is still stalled "in the works".

JerryR

01-05-07, 03:08 PM

Jim, I'm in West Chester, PA. I believe Verizon started making the FIOS TV available here around a month or so ago. If you look back in this thread about half a dozen pages or so there's a post that lists the townships where it was made available at the time.

-Jerry

QZ1

01-05-07, 04:38 PM

ATSC is how HD signals that are broadcast OTA (over the air - i.e. received from an antenna) are encoded. QAM is how digital signals are encoded over cable (coax).
Well, they do indeed commonly use those terms when listing specs. of a TV, but the accurate terms are:
(ATSC) 8VSB for Digital OTA
(ATSC) QAM for Digital Cable

Midd

01-05-07, 06:20 PM

Jwhip,

About a month ago, you mentioned Comcast would add NGHD and one other (can't remember off the top of my head). Any word if it is still a go???

GeekGirl

01-05-07, 09:37 PM

... I have FIOS internet, but the TV side is not available yet in my area, Lower Makefield Township. I'd like to check why your area is now available, and mine is still stalled "in the works". Do you know why this is stalled? I'm also in Lower Makefield Twp. and was thinking about stopping by the Township building to ask if Verizon had made any inquiries for FIOS TV. If you have any info, please tell me. Otherwise, I'll go and check it out in person. The ComCast bill lists the Township Manager (no name listed) as the Franchise Authority, so I'm guessing that's where to start.

StuJac

01-06-07, 08:37 AM

JerryR

01-06-07, 12:02 PM

Here's my PQ review of Comcast vs. Verizon FIOS. Note that all stations were viewed on a 50" Panny rear projection LCD. Since all signals were run through the set top boxes, I don't really know whether on Verizon the analog SD channels have a dual digital feed the set top boxes decode or not. However, I'm sure that for Comcast this is not the case, just judging by picture quality.

CBS Analog SD, running a cartoon
Comcast - not terrible, but noticeably grainier/noisier, minor fluctuations in picture, some minor glitching of signal
FIOS - crisp, clear, indistinguishable from the HD feed of the same channel, except for reduced resolution of NTSC

ABC Analog, SD, running live action
Comcast - grainier/noisier, lots of fluctuating contrast variations/ghosting stripes
FIOS - crisp, clear

PHL17, Mummers parade
Comcast - low res feed, a bit of graininess, but better than ABC
FIOS - the feed looks higher res, very nice, no high frequency noise

NBC, Analog SD, cartoon
Comcast - picture not sharp, very annoying blurriness
FIOS - crisp and clear

Fox, Analog SD, cartoon
Comcast - a bit of graininess
FIOS - crisp, clear

PBS (WHYY), Analog SD, some travel show
Comcast - although the best of the Comcasts so far, there's some vertical striping, and the signal has similar graininess to the other Comcasts.
FIOS - simply beautiful

USA, movie
Comcast - a little grainy, some picture fluctuation, but otherwise not bad
FIOS - sharper than Comcast, less graininess, no fluctuation

BBC America (in comcast's digital tier), "Bargain Hunt"
Comcast - nice, crisp, clear
FIOS - The picture on comcast was sharper, crisper, and because of that you could see a little more graininess. The comcast picture ended up having more of a film look. So depending on your preferences, you could go either way. I think I prefer the FIOS.

For the HD OTA channels, I couldn't see any difference between Comcast and FIOS. The Mummers broadcast looked particularly good on both.

As far as the HD sports channels, I'll wait until there are some games on before comparing.

-Jerry

Jim Hef

01-06-07, 03:43 PM

Geekgirl, it is my understanding that Lower Makefield is part of a consortium of Townships that are approving a second franchise agreement for TV service. Prior to this, all townships had a single provider that they "approved". However, each township needs to enact their own ordinance stating this "permission", and that's the delay. Obviously West Chester leads the pack, although I thought, around here, Newtown Township was the leader. A call to Terry Fedorchak, the Twp Mgr, at 267/274.1100 may give the needed information. Verizon isn't stating any timeframe for us.

Jerry, thanks for the comparison information. Sounds like the picture quality, at least for the SD channels is quite nice. I'll be interested to read any comments about the HD channels, but I haven't had any problem with Comcast's quality on these to begin with. The constant interruption of pictures with digital tiling in our area is what is the problem, along with audio dropouts, and that's very frustrating when my monthly bill exceeds $120!

GeekGirl

01-06-07, 04:33 PM

I spoke to a ComCast tech this morning while he was doing some maintenance in front of my house (new amp and taps). He was very courteous and helpful.

This is a 750 MHz system jam packed with absolutely no room for anything more. In fact, the line amps are having trouble seeing the pilot channels (this is not good). He confirmed with his spectrum analyzer that the C/N at my tap was running marginal (I asked him to check). As an FYI, the highest frequency is channel 120 (753 MHz).

He was unable to adjust the levels for me because they are in-process of redesigning the system to accommodate phone service and he didn't want to change anything that would affect the system. He told me to hang on for a few months until the upgrades come through.

I know there are a lot of complaints about ComCast, but there are still some nice people around.

GeekGirl

01-06-07, 04:51 PM

JimHef - Thanks for the info. I'll try to call him, but probably towards the end of the week when I can do this during business hours.

Do you have a distribution amp at the input to your house? If so, try putting a 6 dB pad at the input. Adding channels increases the total signal power which puts the amp at a more non-linear operating point. Dropping the level will drop the intermods and maybe your pixelation will go away. You can't tell from the STB's SNR and AGC numbers. This is what helped me.

JerryR - good review. The graininess / ghosting is the result of an imperfect RF distribution system. The blurriness / lack of sharpness may be due to excessive video processing / compression.

Background info: All of these channels (except OTA) are picked up from a geostationary satellite (C-Band). From there, ComCast has to compress the heck out of the signal in order to fit it into a very tiny slice of RF spectrum (that's why the 64-QAM, 256-QAM). I'm guessing that fiber doesn't have as much of a problem with bandwidth, so they can run it near the full original bandwidth.

JerryR

01-06-07, 05:17 PM

JerryR

01-06-07, 11:20 PM

Firewire report

Firewire is enabled on my set top box, a Motorola QIP6200-2. The box I had from Comcast was a Motorola DCT-6200. They look almost identical except no cablecard slot on the front of the Verizon one.

Also, the channel change codes appear to work identically in the two boxes. I'm able to change channels on the Verizon box with the same program I used for the DCT-6200.

The bad news is that a random assortment of HD OTA channels appear to have some kind of copy protection turned on. Of the ones I looked at so far, CBS, ABC, and CW have copy protection, but NBC, PBS, FOX, NJ PBS, and WPHL do not. I get no signal when I try to record the protected channels on my computer, but no problem with the others.

Looking at the diagnostic screen, I see that the copy protected channels have CCI: 0x02 and RC Flag: 0x02. The non-protected ones have these both set to 0. For Type, both protected and non- are set to Digital UNK 0x43. SD Digital channels and non-OTA HD channels have this set to ENC 0x12 (or 13?), which I think is 5C, and I expected that.

It's my understanding that FCC regs state providers have to supply OTA signals completely in the clear, so I'll be calling Verizon up ASAP. I suppose their support lines aren't open on Sunday :( Anyone have a good phone number to call so as to avoid the voice mail maze?

-Jerry

jeepmatt

01-07-07, 07:07 AM

Well, after being a DISH customer since March of 06' - FIOS TV just rolled out in my area, and I was installed on Thursday with an HD-DVR and an HD box - just as I had with DISH (622 & 211). I'm in North Wilmington, DE.

After a few days of missing channels (was a local issue in my area - I was one of the 1st out of my CO - Talleyville) - i'm now up and running. Oh yeah, still need to work out some OnDemand kinks tomorrow with the tech group.

Comparisons

Receivers - Naturally, DISH's receivers and interfaces were awesome. FIOS uses the Microsoft TV platform - it's not terrible, but certainly DISH would win in this category. FIOS is supposedly working on a revamp of the guide.

SD Channels - my local SD channels blow away DISH's offering - standard SD channels are much clearer. I would say some stations have similar quality as DISH (probably based on the channel itself), but most of them are better.

HD Channels - the quality looks fantastic - every HD channel comes in great. Especially the HD Nets, SportsNet Philly HD - and one that was big on this board for awhile, StarzHD. You can tell FIOS is giving the required bandwidth to these stations. It's also nice to see MHD. I will admittingly miss Food HD and HGTV HD until FIOS adds them. These were 2 of the most watched channels in my home. I hardly ever watched the VOOM channels, so in all reality I won't miss them.

Other points - FIOS offers "Widgets" - which is local weather and traffic along the bottom of the screen - I have Weatherscan Local again - and of course, the Weather Channel with "real" Local on the 8's. It will also be nice to have OnDemand again - the real kind.

I now have to call and cancel today the basic Comcast service I had as a backup to DISH - and then, cancel DISH as well. I'll probably wait a week or so to get that done.

JWhip - if you can find out any scoop yet on when FIOS will add more HD - let me know! :p

IF anyone has any questions - feel free to ask!

newsposter

01-07-07, 08:26 AM

Background info: All of these channels (except OTA) are picked up from a geostationary satellite (C-Band). From there, ComCast has to compress the heck out of the signal in order to fit it into a very tiny slice of RF spectrum \.

I'm glad you posted that. I think there are a lot of people out there that dont realize cable gets their stuff from the sky the same way satellite customers do and those commercials dissing 'the dish' are insane. If you visit your local cable co, you can see all their dishes! ;)

I had someone ask me specifically about one of the commercials and I promptly replied that if cable was perfect, they wouldn't need to be dissing 'the dish.' But they have outages too.

JerryR

01-07-07, 11:22 AM

Good news - I looked up Verizon's tech support number and saw they are open 24/7 so I called them this morning. Despite recorded warnings of extraordinarily long waits, I got connected to a human immediately. I told the rep that 5 of the 16 local HD channels were encrypted over the firewire, and that it was my understanding they shouldn't be. He put me on hold for a few minutes, and when he came back he agreed I was right that none of them should be encrypted and that they would look into it and call me back in the afternoon. I gave him a little more info about what flags were set and hung up.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the problem will be corrected,
-Jerry

xela19115

01-07-07, 01:33 PM

>>Background info: All of these channels (except OTA) are picked up from a geostationary satellite (C-Band). From there, ComCast has to compress the heck out of the signal in order to fit it into a very tiny slice of RF spectrum (that's why the 64-QAM, 256-QAM). I'm guessing that fiber doesn't have as much of a problem with bandwidth, so they can run it near the full original bandwidth.

Plus, for the OTA channels, they're being transmitted in analog all the way from ComCast's distribution center, while for FIOS, they're digital until they get converted after they enter your house.

-Jerry

You're somewhat wrong about the process. Channels (except local analog or digital OTA) are picked up from satellite but not just C-Band. Some channels on the satellite are analog and they're scrambled but most are digital and most are encrypted . Channels are modulated in QPSK in order to fit into satellite bandwidth channel allocation and these digital channels are already MPEG compressed by content provider and not by the cable company. A local Comcast head-end would receive these channels off a satellite, decrypt them, re-encrypt them for the cable boxes, modulate them into either QAM-64 or QAM-256 and transmit them on the RF plant. QAM is not a compression technology, it's a modulation method.

Verizon FIOS TV is an RF overlay technology and it uses the same technology as Comcast or any other cable company. They use the same "path" to get their content as other cable providers. FIOS uses the same "RF slices" as Comcast. Its the same 6 MHz per RF channels and modulated at QAM-256 gives about 39 Mbps of bandwidth. Verizon uses the same head-end equipment from Motorola as Comcast.

All of the signal transmission from the head-end to the edge (node) is over the fiber. As a matter of fact cable company plant is called HFC (hybrid fiber coax) meaning from the head-end to the node its fiber and from the node to the house its coax. What Verizon does with their FIOS TV is they putting the node on the side of the house, i.e. each individual subscriber gets his/her own "mini-node". FIOS TV transmits their TV signal using the same QAM-256 as Comcast or anyone else. Verizon has 2 superheadends (one in IL and another in TX) where they receive, mux and distribute all of their programming to the local markets.

Local OTA signals are received by a local head-end and modulated and put on the plant for the transmission. Local OTA are not transmitted to the Comcast Media Center. That would be just wasteful. MPEG encoders and modulators are pretty cheap and are in every head-end.

I don't want to "defend" Comcast or any other cable company but I thought I'd set the facts straight.

JerryR

01-07-07, 02:09 PM

All of the signal transmission from the head-end to the edge (node) is over the fiber. As a matter of fact cable company plant is called HFC (hybrid fiber coax) meaning from the head-end to the node its fiber and from the node to the house its coax. What Verizon does with their FIOS TV is they putting the node on the side of the house, i.e. each individual subscriber gets his/her own "mini-node". FIOS TV transmits their TV signal using the same QAM-256 as Comcast or anyone else. Verizon has 2 superheadends (one in IL and another in TX) where they receive, mux and distribute all of their programming to the local markets.

Local OTA signals are received by a local head-end and modulated and put on the plant for the transmission. Local OTA are not transmitted to the Comcast Media Center. That would be just wasteful. MPEG encoders and modulators are pretty cheap and are in every head-end.

Let me see if I follow you correctly. You're saying that cable transmits the analog signals digitally from the head-end to a node, where they get converted back to analog (for the channels you can receive without a set top box, that is).

Where are these nodes for the cable company? Is there a one-to-one correspondence between nodes and houses? Is the poor quality of the comcast analog channels then due to the not-quite-as-long-as-I-though-but-still-longer-than-Verizon runs of coax, coupled with probably poorer quality and much older coax and connectors?

-Jerry

xela19115

01-07-07, 07:34 PM

Let me see if I follow you correctly. You're saying that cable transmits the analog signals digitally from the head-end to a node, where they get converted back to analog (for the channels you can receive without a set top box, that is).

Where are these nodes for the cable company? Is there a one-to-one correspondence between nodes and houses? Is the poor quality of the comcast analog channels then due to the not-quite-as-long-as-I-though-but-still-longer-than-Verizon runs of coax, coupled with probably poorer quality and much older coax and connectors?

-Jerry

No! A cable company does not transmit the analog signals digitally from the head-end to a node, where they get converted back to analog. Analog and digital video can be and is transmitted over the fiber. At the same time. Using multimode fiber cables. You can multiplex multiple signals on the same fiber. In a typical 750 MHz or 870 MHz system, about 550 MHz is your analog channels and the rest is your SD and HD digital channels, VOD, HSI data and VoIP telephony and whatever else the cable company can cram in there. In the next 2-3 years analog channels will be dropped and quite a lot of bandwidth will be released to be used for more HD channels, higher speed data, etc. One of the decent sources is this paper: http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/hfc_dwdm/

To put it simply a node is a fiber-to-coax conversion device. It can be mounted on a pole, they can put in an outdooor cabinet or in a small pod. You probably pass one every day and don't know about it. There is no one-to-one correspondence between the nodes and houses. Usually there is a ratio of 250-500 houses per node.

As far as quality of analog channels, a lot of factors determine and influence it. In 80-90% of cases of poor quality of analog video is due to the poor and/or very old internal wiring and low quality splitters inside. Each 2-way splitter is 3-4 db drop in a signal strength and each 4-way splitter is even more. Having a couple splitters in series is a sure recipe for a lousy video. In my house the original coax wiring was done by electricians 26 years ago. Signal was pretty bad. After I made a decent RG-59 cable run and removing 3 splitters my signal strength is near perfect 0 dbmV. And you're right some of the outside coax runs could be old as well. Its all depends where you live and how long ago the neighborhood was wired. Whether a cable drop from the pole to the house is above or below ground makes a lot of difference. Length of outside coax really does not have that much effect on quality of video signal since most of the runs are no more than a few hundred feet long and in many cases the length is only a few dozen feet at most. In my case it's about 20 feet.

JerryR

01-07-07, 08:55 PM

xela - that's fascinating, I had no idea, and I love learning stuff like that. Thanks for that explanation.

In my neighborhood, cable is all underground. My house is about 30 years old, but I bought it only about three years ago, so I have no idea how old the coax install is. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the outside coax circled 3/4 of the way around the house before it popped above ground and went through a splitter - in the yard, exposed to the elements - and then entered the house in two places. So I'm sure the lousy signal was at least in part due to that.

-Jerry

GeekGirl

01-07-07, 09:48 PM

Wow! I was watching the Eagles game and missed all the feedback (WTXF- why did you pick now of all times to sync the analog and HD OTA signals together, which put WYSP 94.1 FM about 7 S behind :mad:.

So much for simplification. Yes, QAM is modulation, not compression. I didn't realize the technical depth of this audience. A (long?) time ago, I was a design engineer for a local CATV equipment manufacturer. Back then, we were amazed that an F-connector was usable to 400 MHz, now it's 800+ MHz (there's still a debate on calling a shell with no center conductor pin a real connector).

xela19115 - excellent description. To add, the "other" satellites are in Ku-Band (12-18 GHz). My original description was trying to balance details vs. length of posting.

More background info on my earlier post about the ComCast distribution amp (up on the pole) not being able to find the pilot channels due to a packed RF spectrum:
The pilot channels are RF carriers that are placed at the low end and high end of the RF band (maybe more). The amplifier looks for these signals and adjusts its gain over frequency to provide a clean (linear) output. In other words, it equalizes the gain to provide a constant output power over the full frequency band. The result is that you will get the same signal power over any channel you select. When there is interference in the pilot channels, due to too many channels over what the designers originally intended, the power of the pilot channels is "mis-interpreted" and the amplifier is no longer flat over frequency. You will get a different power for each channel which usually is the cause of poor analog quality and pixelation on the digital channels.

JerryR

01-08-07, 09:23 AM

Does anyone know at what point in the stream content protection/encryption/DRM bits are inserted? Is it done at the head end by the cable/phone company? Or is it done before that?

Also, a set top box question. On the QIP6200, I've found while investigating the content protection settings of various channels that there are certain channels that the diagnostic screen does not appear for. For example, if I tune to one of the HD OTA channels, turn off the box, hit Select, the diagnostic screen appears. But if I go to another one, when I hit Select, no diag screen. It's pretty consistent about which channels it doesn't work on. Any ideas why?

-Jerry

JerryR

01-09-07, 01:04 PM

Jim Hef

01-09-07, 01:51 PM

StuJac

01-09-07, 02:12 PM

xela19115

01-09-07, 04:46 PM

The saga continues. I connected the straight coax to a QAM tuner card in my computer, and I'm able to receive all the local channels through that, both SD and HD. So it seems there are just copy protection bits set which cause the set top box not to pass those channels through the firewire, as opposed to the channels being encrypted.

I just called Verizon back and talked to the guy working on my ticket, and he said they're still investigating it. He said the only possibility so far that someone mentioned to him is maybe only the locally originating content is copy-always, and national content (like _everything_ except the local news) is DRMed. It so, this is ridiculous and hard to believe. I read nothing in the FCC regs I looked at that differentiated on that level. But in the meantime I can watch stations via QAM decoding, so I'm not going to get het up yet.

-Jerry

Jerry,

Copy-protection bits are set at the head-end. The set-top box does not have the capacity to set the CP, it just received them and reacts to the direction of Copy Control Information bits. Verizon guy is 100% correct. Any content that can be received with OTA antenna like your local channels both analog and digital like networks (NBC-HD, ABC-HD, etc.) will not be encrypted nor will they be copy protected (Copy Freely). That's an official FCC requirement. The rest of the stuff is considered to be a high value content and it is up to cable company's or a content producer determination. It can be encrypted so you won't be able to see it with a QAM tuner and/or copy-protected (Copy Once or Copy Never) so you won't be able to use a Firewire D-VHS VCR. Stations that you watch with a QAM tuner are still in the clear, but in the future Verizon may encrypt them as well.

troch1

01-09-07, 08:13 PM

htpcguy

01-09-07, 09:44 PM

Anyone in South Jersey (Marlton/Cherry Hill area) have the channel numbers for the Comcast HD network broadcasts? I've found a number of viewable channels, but I can't tell if they're the high-def ones. (I have basic analog and am using the QAM tuner).

In Voorhees (all HD):

80.1 ABC
80.2 NBC
81.21 PBS
81.22 CBS
106.41 CW
116.41 WPHL
116.42 FOX

Note that these all changed for me right around the beginning of December..

GeekGirl

01-09-07, 10:08 PM

GeekGirl, I spoke with Lower Makefield Twp's manager's office today, and found they signed a franchise agreement with Verizon in November. The secretary told me that she needs to place a few calls to Verizon herself to find out what the holdup is on the FiOS end...she's getting lots of phone calls! Perhaps a phone call or two placed to Verizon from everyone you know that would like the service would help!!! ;) :D THANK YOU! :D Phone call(s) for sure. Maybe I'll ask in-person at the twp building if there's anything I can do to help. I checked into the on-line Board of Supervisors meeting minutes for November 1. Sure enough, Verizon has negotiated a right-of-way ordinance for cable runs. There is also discussion that the Statewide Franchise Legislation for Verizon is dead this year. This goes off-topic, so anyone who wants to see township legislation and what they are doing to protect against future State legislation should go to http://lmt.org/bos/2006/BOSNOV1.htm (under http://lmt.org/bos.htm )

Now, the minutes from Nov. 15: http://lmt.org/bos/2006/BOSNOV152006.htm
APPROVAL OF ORDINANCE NO. 367 – VERIZON FRANCHISE AGREEMENT

...stated this is the Ordinance which grants a Franchise to Verizon and is the same as that which was passed previously for Comcast. This was negotiated essentially by the Consortium of Townships with Verizon. He stated representatives from Verizon are present this evening if there are any questions.

Mr. Stainthorpe moved, Mr. Caiola seconded and it was unanimously carried to approve Ordinance No. 367.

...asked if the Board of Supervisors looked into the fact that many Lower Makefield residents live in the Morrisville Central Office area. ...from Verizon stated there are four wire centers serving the Township. ... asked if the Morrisville Center Office will be slated for fiber optics, and... stated they will. I'm happy that Verizon was present at the meeting.

JerryR

01-09-07, 10:28 PM

Jerry,

Copy-protection bits are set at the head-end. The set-top box does not have the capacity to set the CP, it just received them and reacts to the direction of Copy Control Information bits. Verizon guy is 100% correct. Any content that can be received with OTA antenna like your local channels both analog and digital like networks (NBC-HD, ABC-HD, etc.) will not be encrypted nor will they be copy protected (Copy Freely). That's an official FCC requirement. The rest of the stuff is considered to be a high value content and it is up to cable company's or a content producer determination. It can be encrypted so you won't be able to see it with a QAM tuner and/or copy-protected (Copy Once or Copy Never) so you won't be able to use a Firewire D-VHS VCR. Stations that you watch with a QAM tuner are still in the clear, but in the future Verizon may encrypt them as well.

Xela, sorry - I wasn't clear. I understand and agree that for non-OTA stations, like TNT-HD, ESPN-HD, and all the SD digital non-OTA content, the FCC says the providers are free to encrypt or DRM it however they want. I knew that going in and didn't expect to be able to receive any of those channels (as much as I disagree with the concept that I'm not allowed to record these channels even though I'm paying for them, I accept that those are the stupid federal rules).

When I said "He said the only possibility so far that someone mentioned to him is maybe only the locally originating content is copy-always, and national content (like _everything_ except the local news) is DRMed" -- the rep was supposing that for a broadcast channel, CBS-HD for example, that the FCC says the local news has to be in the clear, but prime time national shows on the same channel can be DRMed.

That's what I think is ridiculous. That some content on an OTA channel might be DRMed but not other content on the same channel. I didn't get a chance to check whether it is actually un-DRMed during the news, but when I was scanning (don't know what show was on), they were definitely DRMed.

-Jerry

troch1

01-10-07, 06:11 AM

In Voorhees (all HD):

80.1 ABC
80.2 NBC
81.21 PBS
81.22 CBS
106.41 CW
116.41 WPHL
116.42 FOX

Note that these all changed for me right around the beginning of December..

Thanks, HT, but are these the stations that are working for anyone NOW? None of those stations are valid according to my TV. I get 82-1 through 82-12, but it does not appear that they are in any way HD. Again this is the Garden State Cable division of Comcast in Marlton/Cherry Hill/Voorhees area.

Thanks,

Mark

htpcguy

01-10-07, 08:22 AM

Thanks, HT, but are these the stations that are working for anyone NOW? None of those stations are valid according to my TV. I get 82-1 through 82-12, but it does not appear that they are in any way HD. Again this is the Garden State Cable division of Comcast in Marlton/Cherry Hill/Voorhees area.

These stations have been working for me since early Dec and are definitely HD. The old Garden State is my provider.

lutton

01-10-07, 11:13 AM

jeffb831

01-10-07, 11:28 AM

Quick question about Comcast HD/DVR boxes: My current unit, a motorola 64xx (I think--it's got DVI, not HDMI), skips, pixelates and pause a lot. Will COmcast swap that out for me? DO the newer units have HDMI with with audio? (My tv will decode the stereo audio from the HDMI input.)

Thanks...

Comcast will always swap it out. That's one of the main advantages of renting the equipment versus owning it. Yes the newer units support HDMI but there are many people having issues, especially when using an AV receiver as a switch.

xela19115

01-10-07, 12:12 PM

Xela, sorry - I wasn't clear. I understand and agree that for non-OTA stations, like TNT-HD, ESPN-HD, and all the SD digital non-OTA content, the FCC says the providers are free to encrypt or DRM it however they want. I knew that going in and didn't expect to be able to receive any of those channels (as much as I disagree with the concept that I'm not allowed to record these channels even though I'm paying for them, I accept that those are the stupid federal rules).

When I said "He said the only possibility so far that someone mentioned to him is maybe only the locally originating content is copy-always, and national content (like _everything_ except the local news) is DRMed" -- the rep was supposing that for a broadcast channel, CBS-HD for example, that the FCC says the local news has to be in the clear, but prime time national shows on the same channel can be DRMed.

That's what I think is ridiculous. That some content on an OTA channel might be DRMed but not other content on the same channel. I didn't get a chance to check whether it is actually un-DRMed during the news, but when I was scanning (don't know what show was on), they were definitely DRMed.

-Jerry

Jerry,

The VZ guy is wrong. If it's OTa then it cannot be copy-protected or encrypted. CBS or whatever network may want to but the federal law for a change is on a consumer's side. But then when our elected officials can be "auctioned off for the highest bidder" who knows what the future may bring. You know - money talks...

Jim Hef

01-10-07, 12:55 PM

Geekgirl, I spoke with Verizon FiOS TV's rep today, and they could not give me a tentative date for service availability for our area. They would only state that they will call me when it becomes available...so no answer as of this date! :(

Jim Hef

01-10-07, 12:58 PM

Lutton, the problem may not be with the box, but with the service coming to your house. I've experienced numerous problems of the same sort, as have my neighbors. The Comcast folks have done all sorts of work to the equipment at the street, and including new service lines to my home, and at times, the problem still persists, even with exchanging boxes within the home.

lutton

01-10-07, 01:22 PM

Well, I'll try swapping the box too. But I'll report the problems and see if any of their tech people want to play around with the lines in the enighborhood.

I'm fairly certain the box is playing a significant part of the problem, because it's most evident when time-shifting.

IPman

01-11-07, 08:20 AM

PSUFAN96

01-11-07, 09:07 AM

I have a quick question. I have Comcast and live in Falls twshp. Do we get Discovery HD? I see a lot of people have it, but don't recall ever seeing it. Thanks.

Jim Hef

01-11-07, 04:37 PM

Off hand, I think Discovery is 205 or 206...try those. There's a printout for the channel lineup at Comcast's website...just dial in your zip code and check it out.

JoePa rules!!!

Hubcap

01-11-07, 06:35 PM

pretty sure discoveryHD is 205

And the previous poster mentioned something about there dvr box skipping, I have noticed the same thing the past week. I have been having some problems with the content skipping around. I have had the box for a while now, think its the 6412 and this is the first time i have had this problem.

GeekGirl

01-11-07, 07:38 PM

HD: 200 = ComCast, 202 = ESPN, 204 = TnT, 205 =Discovery, 206=INHD

If you don't get these channels (HDTV package), reauthorize your box via the telephone support.

Hubcap - swap out your box. I have a non-DVR DCT6500/2005 that was having intermittent "soft focus" problems on HD channels. I'm on my 3rd STB over the last year, each new box fixed the problem. My point is- just swap it out. You need piece of mind. Besides, you rent it, so why not?

Jim Hef

01-12-07, 08:32 AM

Yes, it's very easy to swap out the boxes, just returning the old box and picking up a new one. And yes, you'll need to have them ping the new box when you get it installed. However, I have the occasional tiling on both HD boxes that I have, so I'd be more inclined to figure it's the signal entering his house. Good luck with having Comcast work that out!

newsposter

01-12-07, 10:08 AM

anyone notice for the past week NBC OTA is quieter? I need to turn up the volume...other OTAs are normal

GeekGirl

01-12-07, 07:48 PM

I noticed that the volume for NBC football was way too loud last week. Fox was OK, then I practically had to mute the audio for NBC while I was flipping between games.

whotony

01-12-07, 11:23 PM

macdonwald: Can you give some more information on what you mean by "lost" channels? Are you getting a "No signal" error (black screen) or is the picture broken up with lots of pixelation?

guess not

Bill Geiger

01-12-07, 11:40 PM

I had been getting some of the HD channels just having the cable into my TV but some of the channels wouldn't always be perfect so I am opting for the box (2 of them). Looks like I am in for an adventure tomorrow!

Bill Geiger

01-12-07, 11:50 PM

I am on the Comcast Willow Grove PA system. I noticed on Tuesday morning that I was not receiving ABC & NBC in HD. They were off all through the night. The SD versions were still operating. Has anyone else noticed them missing, and do you know if/where Comcast has moved them?

Thanks

guess not

I had some "lost channels" a couple days ago. They moved my ABC & NBC on me. They were at 118.1 and 118.2 but then they switched to 78.1 and 78.2 (I think)...can't think at the moment. I just reprogammed my TV and things were fine. But, since I purchased a new TV for the folks, the NBC and ABC act up sometimes with constant pixilation for a few minutes, goes away and back again. It is weird. Hopefully that will be the end of that once I set up the boxes tomorrow.

Bill Geiger

01-12-07, 11:57 PM

Here is the current comcast lineup for Willow Grove.

2 Comcast SportsNet
3 KYW-3 (CBS)
4 ESPN
5 CNN
6 WPVI-6 (ABC)
7 WPSG-57 (CW)
8 CN8
9 WTXF-29 (FOX)
10 WCAU-10 (NBC)
11 QVC
12 WHYY-12 (PBS)
13 USA
15 VH-1
16 MTV
17 WPHL-17 (MY)
18 WGTW (TBN)
19 History Channel
20 WMCN -44 (IND)
21 TV Land
22 Cartoon Network
23 WNJS-23 (PBS)
24 The Discovery Channel
25 CNN Headline News
26 Lifetime
27 The Weather Channel
28 Nickelodeon
29 ESPN2
30 AMC
31 TCM
32 TBS Superstation
33 TNT
34 ABC Family
35 WYBE-35 (PBS)
36 EWTN
37 The Learning Channel
38 VERSUS
39 WLVT-39 (PBS)
40 A&E
41 E!
42 Government Access
43 Local Government
44 CNBC
45 Fox News
46 WBPH-60 (IND)
47 HBO
50 G4
51 FX
52 Sci-Fi
53 C-SPAN
54 Hallmark
55 Showtime
56 The Movie Channel
57 Game Show Network
58 The Golf Channel
59 Home & Garden TV
60 Local Government
61 WPPX-61 (i)
62 WWSI-62 (Telemundo)
63 Food Network
64 BET/BET on Jazz
65 WUVP-65 (Univision)
66 Leased Access
67 MSNBC
68 C-SPAN 2
69 WFMZ-69 (IND)
70 style.
71 Spike TV
72 Bravo
73 Speed Channel
74 Philadelphia Park
75 WTVE-51 (PBS) Philadelphia
76 Comedy Central
77 Animal Planet
95 MTV2
96 Court TV
98 Disney Channel
99 TV Guide Channel
Digital

241 WHYY Arts & Culture
242 WHYY Wider Horizons
245 ABC News**
246 ABC Weather**
248 NBC Weather Plus**
250 WPHL - The Tube
251 Telefutura
612 Telefutura

High Definition TV

231 WPVI-6 (ABC) HDTV*
232 WCAU-10 (NBC) HDTV*
233 KYW-3 (CBS) HDTV*
234 WTXF (Fox) HD*
235 WPHL-17 (WB) HDTV*
236 WPSG (UPN) HD*
240 WHYY-12 (PBS) HDTV*

1 ON DEMAND
101 Weatherscan Local
102 ESPNews
103 Discovery Health
105 C-Span 3
107 Current TV
109 National Geographic
110 The Science Channel
111 Discovery Times
112 Military Channel
113 Discovery Home
114 BBC America
115 The Biography Channel
116 History Channel International
119 LMN
120 Soap Net
121 DIY
122 Fine Living
128 PBS Kids Sprout
129 Nick Toons
130 Discovery Kids
131 Noggin
132 Nick Too
133 Nick GAS
134 WAM!
135 Toon Disney
137 Hallmark
139 MTV Hits
140 MTV2
141 MTV tr3s
142 MTV Jams
143 VH-1 Classic
144 VH-1 Soul
145 CMT Pure Country
146 CMT
147 GAC
149 Encore MoviePlex
150 Encore East
151 Encore West
152 Encore Action East
154 Encore Mystery East
156 Encore Love East
158 Encore Drama East
160 Encore Westerns East
162 G4 Video Game Television
163 Logo
165 Sundance East
166 FEARnet
167 Indieplex
168 Retroplex
170 Flix East
173 TV One
180 NFL Network
185 Oxygen
186 PCN
188 Travel
280 ShopNBC
282 Jewelry TV
500 ON DEMAND Previews
502 iNDEMAND 2
652 Canal 52MX
High Definition TV

200 Comcast Sportsnet HD*
202 ESPN HD*
203 ESPN 2 HD*
204 TNT HD*
205 Discovery HD Theater*
206 INHD*
208 Universal HD*
209 MHD*
215 HBO HD*
219 Cinemax HD*
223 Showtime HD*
227 Starz HD*
300 HBO HD*
319 Cinemax HD*
339 Showtime HD*
369 Starz HD*
Sports Package

262 Fox College Sports Atlantic
263 Fox College Sports Central
264 Fox College Sports Pacific
267 Fox Soccer
268 Gol TV
273 NBA TV
274 CSTV
275 NFL Network
277 Tennis Channel
Premium

301 HBO East
302 HBO 2 East
303 HBO Signature East
304 HBO Family East
305 HBO Comedy East
306 HBO West
310 HBO Zone East
311 HBO Latino East
320 Cinemax East
321 More MAX East
322 Cinemax West
324 Action MAX East
325 Thriller MAX East
327 WMAX East
328 @MAX East
329 5 StarMAX East
330 OuterMAX East
340 Showtime East
341 Showtime Too East
342 Showtime Showcase East
346 Showtime Beyond East
347 Showtime Extreme East
350 TMC East
352 TMCxtra
370 Starz East
371 Starz Edge
372 Starz in Black
373 Starz Kids & Family
374 Starz Cinema East
375 Starz Comedy East
544 Playboy

mrjgkelly

01-13-07, 08:48 PM

Quick question about Comcast HD/DVR boxes: My current unit, a motorola 64xx (I think--it's got DVI, not HDMI), skips, pixelates and pause a lot. Will COmcast swap that out for me? DO the newer units have HDMI with with audio? (My tv will decode the stereo audio from the HDMI input.)

Thanks...

As far as I know, the only Motorola STB box from Comcast that has an HDMI connector is their DVR box; DVI is the only option on their HD-only box. On the otherhand, FIOs DVR and HD boxes both have HDMI.

QZ1

01-14-07, 03:14 PM

lutton

01-14-07, 04:26 PM

I swapped the box and got the 3416 (I'm guess that's with a 160 gig drive?) and that has fixed all the problems.

I was fairly certain that the old box was a large part of the problem; the more I had it do the worse the problems got. If I tried to watch one program and record another, or record two programs, or even if the hard drive got close to full, the performance would really deteriorate.

And the HDMI with audio also makes my life simpler hooking up to an auxillary TV.

Bill Geiger

01-14-07, 04:29 PM

Thank you for contacting us through our website. At this time, we have only been confirmed that Versus/Golf TV HD will be added as of tomorrow, the 15th. No other channels have been made known.

If you have any additional questions, please reply to this email or call our customer service department. Our customer service department can be reached at 1-800-COMCAST. We are open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your convenience.

Thank you again for your e-mail. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,
Quinton
Comcast Customer Care Specialist

Bill Geiger

01-14-07, 04:42 PM

So, here with Comcast of Willow Grove, (and others nearby have said they have the same general pricing structure), they have a 'Second DVR' fee of $16.95.

Comcast wasn't able to answer my DVR Q, without starting an order, (which I could do), if no one knows.

The question being, if you have gotten a bill with a billing period that starts in Jan. (new prices), and have two DVRs, Digital Classic/Plus, and a Premium accessible on that second DVR: Are there any other fees besides the 'Second DVR' fee of $16.95?

Please say which Comcast system it is, and if your subscription varies in any way from the above.

I got a deal. I was told they were out of regular HD receivers and had to get 2 HD dvr's. The pricing for 3 months for one of them is $5.95 or something and the second being $16.95. After the 3 months, if I choose, I can switch them out. If I decided to keep it, the fee would be $11.95 for one, $16.95 for the other. Also, got HBO & digtal cable for $10.00 for 12 months. Was a good deal if you ask me. The price compared to our regular fee is only about 25 bucks more or something.

I am in the Willow Grove area.

QZ1

01-14-07, 05:08 PM

I got a deal. I was told they were out of regular HD receivers and had to get 2 HD dvr's. The pricing for 3 months for one of them is $5.95 or something and the second being $16.95. After the 3 months, if I choose, I can switch them out. If I decided to keep it, the fee would be $11.95 for one, $16.95 for the other. Also, got HBO & digtal cable for $10.00 for 12 months. Was a good deal if you ask me. The price compared to our regular fee is only about 25 bucks more or something.

I am in the Willow Grove area.
Since you are on a promo, I am not sure of the answer to my question.

-Have you gotten a bill that is for a period starting in January?
(What they tell you is not always what they bill you.)

-Do you get Digital Classic/Plus and HBO on the Second DVR?

-Are there any 'Digital Addtl. Outlet' and/or 'Premium Access' fees/line items in association with that Second outlet that has a DVR?
(Please mention even if it is listed at $0, which could be a promo price.)

I do have the price list, and usually am very good at understanding it.
However, they have ommitted some items on the list that exist, but some items may have just disappeared, it isn't clear.

Thanks

Bill Geiger

01-14-07, 06:29 PM

Yes, I get HBO on the second DVR.

No fees as far as I know. I wasn't made aware of any extra fees for the second outlet.

jwbausch

01-15-07, 02:34 AM

Woohoo. VSGLF is alive and well on Comcast here in Radnor. Channel 207.

Hubcap

01-15-07, 02:51 PM

Woohoo. VSGLF is alive and well on Comcast here in Radnor. Channel 207.

what is there to be happy about? There will be basically no HD content on here.

Pretty dissapointed about the additon of this channel. Who really is going to watch anything on here? They dont broadcast the main golf events, they are covered by usa,tnt and espn. Would much rather have a FoodHD or just anything.

frankd

01-15-07, 03:12 PM

Woohoo. VSGLF is alive and well on Comcast here in Radnor. Channel 207.

Fantastic!!! I love VSGLF!

IPman

01-15-07, 04:57 PM

I had some "lost channels" a couple days ago. They moved my ABC & NBC on me. They were at 118.1 and 118.2 but then they switched to 78.1 and 78.2 (I think)...can't think at the moment. I just reprogammed my TV and things were fine. But, since I purchased a new TV for the folks, the NBC and ABC act up sometimes with constant pixilation for a few minutes, goes away and back again. It is weird. Hopefully that will be the end of that once I set up the boxes tomorrow.

Thanks Bill!

I will try to find my missing HD networks at 78.1 and 78.2.

I am new to this, does Comcast in Willow Grove move HD channels around often?

PS: I work next to Rizzos in Glenside

Bill Geiger

01-15-07, 05:31 PM

Thanks Bill!

I will try to find my missing HD networks at 78.1 and 78.2.

I am new to this, does Comcast in Willow Grove move HD channels around often?

PS: I work next to Rizzos in Glenside

Oh, cool! I live right up the street from Rizzos!

Bill Geiger

01-15-07, 05:32 PM

jwbausch

01-15-07, 07:33 PM

what is there to be happy about? There will be basically no HD content on here.

Pretty dissapointed about the additon of this channel. Who really is going to watch anything on here? They dont broadcast the main golf events, they are covered by usa,tnt and espn. Would much rather have a FoodHD or just anything.

Well, Hubcap, different strokes for.... pun intended.

VSGLF will be covering tons of PGA tour golf tourneys in HD, so your comments about that 'they don't broadcast the main golf events' is just not accurate. Plus, it is covering a good number of NHL games in HD that Comcast no longer has to show on INHD.

Why don't you just say that you would have preferred some other HD channel instead of bashing something that you clearly are not up to date on?

whotony

01-15-07, 10:02 PM

so any other hd channels coming soon

GeekGirl

01-15-07, 10:22 PM

VS Golf on 207 in Lower Makefield (Lower Bucks). Finally... HD Hockey to watch in between the Flyers games! Picture quality a tad better than ComCast.

Dedicated thread already under way here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=780943&page=1&pp=30

Quatre

01-16-07, 02:44 PM

Quat-
At least be glad you have channels..

Head over to DSLReports.com and read about my install nightmare yesterday of FIOS TV.

This morning I still am missing half of my channels and no VOD.

Channels 50-64 won't come in - some in the 80's, 90's, all through the 100's just random missing channels - but no Food Network, Bravo, MTV, etc.

I had 3 techs at my house and none of them could figure it out. So, right now I have no DISH network and half FIOS TV.

I do want them to get it to work though, because the picture quality is HUGE over what DISH was. Sportsnet Philly in HD last night looked amazing.

oh wow that does sound bad and makes my fios situation not seem as bad. sorry for your troubles and that my complaints seemed trivial compared to your problems.

Some think we are just lucky to be in an area where its offered as at the very least it forces comcast to compete a little harder for your dollar. I just dont feel like ppl that dont have it available should feel like they are missing so much if they have comcast. Not to boost comcast but programming and feature wise they have had the longest to perfect it and the most bank. Ppl coming from some of these smaller cable compaines or Directv or Dish will prob find a lot of improvement with fios but coming from comcast its a much closer race and becomes a matter of weighing pros and cons.

Personally I felt the cons of fios over comcast outweighed the pros but think I may keep it past the 30 days as I've kept comcast for standard cable (channels 22-99 or something) in 2 rooms with older non hd crt tvs and I'm keeping one hd dvr 6416 box for a 3rd room mostly for the HD on demand content that Fios doesnt' have. Mostly wanted to keep comcast for the standard analog cable through coax without box but that is like $50-60 anyway. Its only Basic (chans 2-22) that you can get cheap for like $14 or so.

Seems crazy to have 2 cable tv providers but for now it works for the best of both worlds. For Fios, i have 2 hd dvr 3416 boxes, one hd non dvr box, and one std def box for my kitchen where its connected to an hd flat lcd through svideo. I used to just have the std cable through coax from comcast on that tv so i figure even though its not an hd box just having the std box from verizon on there is an upgrade and gives me way more chans. I have it connected with Svideo which is the best connection it has and i figure its maybe slight better then rca composite cable.

I have started getting used to the Fios boxes, menus and guides etc. and my wife says she likes them and has adapted to them, but I still use the comcast remotes on them and dont like the guide as you can't see the full name of the show as you could with comcast and the menu get stuck or is slower way more often then comcasts were. One nice thing with fios box we noticed is when you watch a dvr prog and ffwd through commercial and hit play, even if you are late like you fwd too far and show is already back from commercial it somehow auot detects where the show starts and will rewind (and i guess ffwd) a little bit to where the show first starts back up again from commercial. Is that the 30 sec skip everyone speaks of or is that somethign else?

Been using Fios for internet too but my speeds are slower at 5mb/s download then what i was getting with comcast cable modem. I guess the price is less though but not if i upgrade to the 15mb/s. I know comcast now has diff speeds 6, 10, and 18 i think but we were grandfathered in at the lowest isp rate and yet i got crazy good speeds, even 19mb/s one night. But thats the thing, cable modem is sporadic and fluctuates depending on traffic of neighbors etc. Still I didn't like how i was forced into taking fios internet before i knew i was keeping the tv service and had in my head that i wanted to have the same company for tv and internet to make it easier but later realized i could just pick which was best for each which i figured fios was the clear winner for internet but in my case i had such a fast comcast connection for a low price i might have been better off.

oh well, you have to have the router with fios tv service anyway so mine as well get the inet service and make more use of that router and had them move up to my office instead of in basement where they first lazily put it.

speaking of lazy they used my own extension cord and had it running through garage to plug in their batter back up unit. i had to pay an electrician to install a new recepticle/outlet and now have to take it up with verizon for the cost of that which I bet will be like pulling teeth. As well the fios installation broke my attick access panel which teh guy said he would fix/replace, never did, and i had to again do it at my own cost and then take up with them.

Fios install techs broke off my comcast box outside pulled off the amp to my cable modem, threw it out, and this like a couple mins after i said to keep the comcast tv connected for my other outlets/tvs and more importantly to the cable modem which i was keeeping and not getting fios data yet. Guy completely ignores me and rips it and throws it out 2 min later. Has to come back next day and says they dont have those amps and the one he threw out is gone. So i would have been screwed and had to have comcast come back and readd an amp and get things working again at their expense thanks to verizon. Instead if i wanted internet back asap i had to let them install the fios data. Was a shady tactic to me.

another night i had no picture on one tv and called them up and woldnt' get appt for days. called up a tech who said maybe he could come next day if they wrote it up. Went up in attic and luckily was able to see the line running to that room was disconnected and reconnnected it myself to get picture back.

So i guess i'm done now other then getting reimbursed for the repairs i had to make at my expense. We'll see how using a combo of the 2 services goes but in the end i think its not going to be economical after the first year. In meantime my fios std box is free for a year and i got a promotional price for the dig, plus basic plus standard that comcast charges you on top of the monthly cost of the dvr box.

i'm just glad to be done... (for now) and not have comcast or verizon ppl back in my house.

Quatre

01-16-07, 02:59 PM

I just wanted to chime in with a satisfied FIOS install story.

The guy came at 10am yesterday, and another guy joined him to help run cable about an hour later, and they were here until about 4pm. Both guys very competent, knowledgeable, and friendly.

First they put in the ONT (optical network terminal) in the basement. The ONT has a battery backup and it's also plugged into house current. It connects the incoming fiber to the house phone wiring, a cat5 cable for internet, and a coax for the tv.

Then, since the Comcast coax in my house is crazy (it circles 3/4 of the way around the house underground outside before it pops above ground, then there's a splitter - _in the yard_ - at which point one split goes to the family room through the side of the house, and the other goes through the garage to the attic where it split again and goes to two of the upstairs rooms. What was I saying? Oh yeah, since the existing coax is crazy, they ran all new coax in a sensible way and a cat5 line. They were genuinely interested in setting up the wiring in the best way possible. There were some shortcuts they could have taken to make it easier on themselves which they didn't.

Then they gave me a big fat wireless router (ActionTec). As an aside, apparently if you have a static IP account (which I don't, but a friend of mine does), program guide data won't work. They (Verizon) haven't figured that out yet. The tech said your set top box would probably work, but not the guide data. Anyway, the router defaults to WEP, but supports WPA, which I switched it to.

All in all, the install was very professional and thorough, and they were in and out in about six hours.

The verdict? Internet is noticeably faster. All the OTA channels are converted to analog at the point they are multiplexed onto the coax in the basement. This means that you can get the 15 or 20 OTA channels on a TV without a set top box. However, since they are originating digitally less than 100 feet from the tv, they have the clarity of a digital signal. I suppose the improvement depends on how crappy your analog cable was, but for me the improvement was dramatic. For my install, I had two TVs upstairs to connect (without set top boxes) and one HDTV with an HD set top box (but not DVR capability).

I'm running MythTV as a DVR so this weekend I will be reconfiguring it to use the FIOS set top box instead of Comcast's. I asked the techs to leave the Comcast cable connected, which they did, no problem. The set top box from Comcast is a Motorola 6200, and from Verizon it's a Motorola QIP-6200, so if I'm lucky, firewire control will function the same on the new box and I won't run into any problems.

The only downside so far is that the VOD selection is pretty pitiful compared to Comcast, but since I hardly ever used that, it's not such a big deal for me. In every other way, I'm very happy so far.

-Jerry

install like most things is a very YMMV type of thing. Glad you had a good one. Its not that my guys were so bad but one was more of a copper wire phone guy and the other was somewhat new at all the video and data stuff and unlike yours they had no genuine interest in running new logical wiring. They used the existing old comcast coax and in general i think they used shortcuts whereever they could. They put the ONT outside and the batter backup on the other side of that outside wall in the garage and then used an extension cord of mine to plug it into a recepticle in back of the garage.

I wanted the ONT on the outside because if they ever have a problem they can sometimes just look at that and you dont have to be home to let them in house.

Just a note on the Actiontec router which called big fat, and i'm not sure if you were impressed with it or annoyed by the space it takes up but i was definitely the latter as it not only is the largest most space taking router i've seen but also is known to be just plain crappy. Verizon used to use a better dlink router but switched to the actiontec as it was one of the only ones that did the mocha translation or whatever from fiber to coax or something. Now the new ONT boxes take care of that so they really dont need the actiontec routers and are talking about going back to the dlink router which I told them to switch mine as soon as they do.

For me it was the opposite of you in several ways from install to end result service. my internet speed is slower then i had with comcast. Not only do i lose all the standard cable chans 2-99 that i had with comcast on tvs w/o boxes but my std pq w/o box was crystal clear through coax with comcast especially on lcd in kitchen which ppl though was on hd (and it was only connected through coax) even now with the std box from verizon connected through svid (the best the std box can do) its not any better.

So for me having a great clear and fast comcast connection for both tv and internet, it made it harder for verizon to compete as nothing was really better and several things worse plus a bad install experience. Speaking of knowing what service they are selling and installing, I never had anyone that was knowledgeable, the ppl selling it door to door just said yes to everyting i asked including 1080p and hd multi room dvr, just 2 examples of things they dont have that the sales people lied about even though they either knew otherwise or just had no clue either way.

One of my installers didn't even know what an hdmi cable was and neither knew how to just hit menu on the remote with box off and set the override to 480p or stretch instead of off so that i could have a full screen pic for the std chans on my smaller kitchen tv. In fact the installers and ppl on phone said i needed a std def box to get full screen though at first the guy though component would make diff over hdmi in getting full screen even though i said it wouldn't. They were throwing in this box supposedly for free or at least with no additional install charge so they either were lying so i would take the less expensive std def box or they really didnt know, either way is bad.

We'll see how it turns out and how quickly fios improves and catches up but in the Phila area I just wouldn't neccesarily recommend everyone rushing to ditch comcast for fios.

howwen

01-16-07, 03:21 PM

VSGLF HD -

Available in SJ (Garden State Cable) 1-31-2007

Info as per CSR at Comcast.

Hubcap

01-16-07, 03:25 PM

Well, Hubcap, different strokes for.... pun intended.

VSGLF will be covering tons of PGA tour golf tourneys in HD, so your comments about that 'they don't broadcast the main golf events' is just not accurate. Plus, it is covering a good number of NHL games in HD that Comcast no longer has to show on INHD.

Why don't you just say that you would have preferred some other HD channel instead of bashing something that you clearly are not up to date on?

Well i guess there broadcast of PGA tour events will be new for this year. Because the only events i have ever seen them broadcast included fields that where sub-par. And as far as NHL games, i could really care less about NHL, as i can watch the flyers inhd on comcast. As i dont watch other NHL games.

But i just want to state I tuned into the channel a few times in the past couple days, and besides that NHL game last night I have not seen 1 program in HD.

Jim Hef

01-16-07, 03:36 PM

...they used my own extension cord and had it running through garage to plug in their battery back up unit. i had to pay an electrician to install a new receptacle/outlet....
I think you're picking nits with that one. Verizon makes it clear that you need to have some "proper" infrastructure for them to use when installing the equipment, or at least they did for me for the internet service. Electrical feed is a necessity, but perhaps they could have located the equipment closer to an existing receptacle???

Quatre

01-16-07, 05:43 PM

I'm in the same boat; I went through Verizon's website to check when it will be available for the Willow Grove, Abington area and they simply say it's on it's way. I've had it with Comcrap and paying over $100 for the hi-def package. I'm looking to get a TiVo Series 3 for FIOS if and when it comes.

for the guy getting comcast digi silver hbo and dvr for 60 nice work. i'm paying that much now i think for that w/o the hbo and that is supposed to be a promotion too.

about Qam tuner, yeah that seems like a great future, too bad its not in many smaller flat tvs where you really need it so you dont have to use a box in a smaller space like kitchen for ex.

I knew Willow Grove didn't have fios and was surprised that Ambler and Horsham have it before WG and Abington. As far as the Tivo Series 3 to use with fios, i think you have to pay tivo an additional monthly fee for that which sucks and why i didn't even entertain the idea. meanwhile i'm keeping 2 tvs with std analog cable and one hd dvr box with comcast in addition to my fios tv service rediculously enough so who am i to judge. maybe when i get rid of comcast completely i could get the tivo box.

But, isn't there any box we can buy on our own to use with fios that doesn't require a monthly fee?

Quatre

01-16-07, 05:58 PM

Quatre

01-16-07, 06:04 PM

You're somewhat wrong about the process. Channels (except local analog or digital OTA) are picked up from satellite but not just C-Band. Some channels on the satellite are analog and they're scrambled but most are digital and most are encrypted . Channels are modulated in QPSK in order to fit into satellite bandwidth channel allocation and these digital channels are already MPEG compressed by content provider and not by the cable company. A local Comcast head-end would receive these channels off a satellite, decrypt them, re-encrypt them for the cable boxes, modulate them into either QAM-64 or QAM-256 and transmit them on the RF plant. QAM is not a compression technology, it's a modulation method.

Verizon FIOS TV is an RF overlay technology and it uses the same technology as Comcast or any other cable company. They use the same "path" to get their content as other cable providers. FIOS uses the same "RF slices" as Comcast. Its the same 6 MHz per RF channels and modulated at QAM-256 gives about 39 Mbps of bandwidth. Verizon uses the same head-end equipment from Motorola as Comcast.

All of the signal transmission from the head-end to the edge (node) is over the fiber. As a matter of fact cable company plant is called HFC (hybrid fiber coax) meaning from the head-end to the node its fiber and from the node to the house its coax. What Verizon does with their FIOS TV is they putting the node on the side of the house, i.e. each individual subscriber gets his/her own "mini-node". FIOS TV transmits their TV signal using the same QAM-256 as Comcast or anyone else. Verizon has 2 superheadends (one in IL and another in TX) where they receive, mux and distribute all of their programming to the local markets.

Local OTA signals are received by a local head-end and modulated and put on the plant for the transmission. Local OTA are not transmitted to the Comcast Media Center. That would be just wasteful. MPEG encoders and modulators are pretty cheap and are in every head-end.

I don't want to "defend" Comcast or any other cable company but I thought I'd set the facts straight.

yes i've heard this too that Comcast (and others) have had fiber in the ground and use it for some time now. Just not to the house. That is the only thing different verizon does, and then advertises "the power of light" and all that so its almost somewhat of a novelty. Either way ppl are getting better sd pq on most chans then comcast so... I guess there is something they are doing right.

Again that still seems to be the only thing it beats comcast at, while it loses in several other equally and possibly more important areas.

Quatre

01-16-07, 09:44 PM

I think you're picking nits with that one. Verizon makes it clear that you need to have some "proper" infrastructure for them to use when installing the equipment, or at least they did for me for the internet service. Electrical feed is a necessity, but perhaps they could have located the equipment closer to an existing receptacle???

yes that was the whole point. there was a recepticle at the back of the garage and i looked into the garage of a neighbor who was getting the fios install. our garages are all the same and neighbors battery back up box was mounted on wall and plugged into outlet in back of garage.

i explained this. my installers were just too lazy or whatever else to do it there and run their wiring. they put it on the interior wall on the other side of where the ont box was that was why. not picking nits.

you dont pay for a service and get an install that has to inconvenience you with extension cords running and worse yet one of your own supply.

whotony

01-16-07, 09:52 PM

hmm, a hockey game on inhd and vsglf.

DD 5.1 on inhd and prologic on vsglf.

howwen

01-17-07, 08:48 AM

xela19115

01-17-07, 11:19 AM

yes i've heard this too that Comcast (and others) have had fiber in the ground and use it for some time now. Just not to the house. That is the only thing different verizon does, and then advertises "the power of light" and all that so its almost somewhat of a novelty. Either way ppl are getting better sd pq on most chans then comcast so... I guess there is something they are doing right.

Again that still seems to be the only thing it beats comcast at, while it loses in several other equally and possibly more important areas.

Picture quality is a strictly subjective thing. Everybody has it own opinions. In areas where Comcast has deployed digital simulcast, i.e. all of your SD channels are digital the PQ is very good. Believe me that VZ is not doing anything special with their SD or HD channels that Comcast can't do. Everyone in the cable business uses the similar encoders, decoders, muxes, splicers and transcoders. All of that equipment has the same capabilities or limitations.

IMHO its a power of a suggestion. Sometimes you start seeing things that you want to see. If you would have used a $130k video PQ analyzer and compared Comcast's and VZ's PQ side by side you wouldn't see a whole lot of difference.

BTW, This is my 100th post! :D

dlalli

01-17-07, 09:22 PM

I recently purchased a samsung HDTV a few weeks ago. A couple of days ago, the TV started tiling and the screen would seem to split. , not all the time and not all channels, but on on the the HDTV. No other TVs in the house seem to have this problem. Comcast came out replaced some wires, checked the signal strength & said that's all they could do. Since I know nothing about cable or signal strength, I'm looking for advice on what else I can do to help this problem. The comcast tech said it's definitely not the TV but the cable causing the problem.
Does this sound accurate?

GeekGirl

01-17-07, 10:38 PM

Yes. If there is no pixelation (no "blocks") and just the tiling / split screen, you may have a problem with the STB. I assume that you have it connected to your Sammy using the HDMI or DVI output. If so, some STBs have problems authenticating the connection to your TV. The STB needs to setup a connection and determine that you are allowed to view the content. Sometimes it doesn't do this correctly. If the problem goes away by switching to another channel and back, that's it.

In any case, swap out the box. This is free to try and probably easier than calling back the service tech. It will give you peace of mind. Besides, "that's all we could do but it's our problem" is not exactly something that I would be happy about. Welcome to the AVS forum.

xela19115 - Congrats on 100! I just made 200 and counting.

JWhip

01-18-07, 07:43 AM

dlalli

01-18-07, 09:04 AM

The TV is actually doing both, the cable guy said it was called tiling, but it shows the blocks, the screen freezes and splits at the bottom.

xela19115

01-18-07, 11:26 AM

xela, having seen the VZ for myself at a neighbors' house, I can tell you that the VZ PQ on SD is better than Comcast, with analog or the all digital simulcast. Simply put, VZ uses less compression on SD and it really shows.

OK. And I'm not trying to be ppro-Comcast or pro-Verizon. Not to be offensive but just to prove my point that its all subject and "in the eye of the beholder". But do your neighbors have the same exact TV set that you have? If they do, is it calibrated the same way yours is? Is their VZ FIOS settop preset the same way as your Comcast box is? Is Motorola firmware that Verizon is running on their box the same version that Comcast is using? If you want to compare apples to apples you have to do ask these questions. I bet if you take a pure MPEG-2 transport stream dump from their feed and compare it to a MPEG-2 transport stream off a Comcast feed you'd hardly if at all notice any differences. In order to definitively say that VZ PQ is better than Joe Shmoe's PQ you need to have it compared side by side using the same monitor using the same set-top box with the same software running on both. And if you do still see the differences after that than yes I'd concede that VZ or whomever PQ is better than the other guy.

How do you know that Verizon uses less compression on their encoders vs. Comcast? What is the bitrate of the Verizon channels and what is the bitrate of the Comcast channels? If either one of them uses dynamic encoders (kind of like VBR) than this debate is moot. Comcast uses dynamic encoding and I bet Verizon does as well. It's done to improve the PQ and save the bandwidth. Just because Verizon uses FTTH it does not mean they'll throw gobbles of megabits your way. They'd be as frugal with bits as any other cable provider. Because bandwidth is very, very expensive.

Ryan21

01-18-07, 11:28 AM

Does anyone know her why FSN-HD programming on CSN Philly HD is not in HD on the HD channel?

JWhip

01-18-07, 11:56 AM

gcubed

01-18-07, 12:04 PM

I am pretty sure verizon compresses their SD's less then Comcast, but I would highly doubt that is the reason why you are seeing the big difference in picture quality. I would put more weight to the fact that a FTTH set up is much "cleaner" then an RF set up. Any noise or interfernce anywhere along the route in your node can cause some small issues.

This is another good thing that is going to come out of Verizon having a video offering. I can bet you will see a better effort in cleaning up and taking care of RF plant issues then before. Price is one thing, and after all is said and done, its not that much of a difference to make a change. PQ is another, and Comcast knows they lack in the SD department

xela19115

01-18-07, 01:02 PM

Xela, I am pretty well known here and didn't just fall off the apple cart with HD. My neighbor has the exact same plasma as I have in my bedroom. I know what I see and don't see. There is a rather large difference in the SD PQ with the VZ having much less noise and artifacting with motion. The HD PQ looks about the same to me. I do not need to have the same software running on each box to make a valid comparison. They are both Motorola boxes. If the software is the issue, Comcast needs to change theirs, because VZ's is better. In comparing the two, VZ has the better PQ, pure and simple and that is all the really matters isn't it? In looking at how the systems function and in speaking to people at each, it would seem that VZ is using less compression on the SD channels as they have alot more bandwidth

JWhip, as I said in my post I did not meant to offend anyone and you're pretty well known here. But I'm a test engineer and I just merely described methodology I'd use to compare the PQ from various sources. With video PQ its always very difficult to prove what is good and what's not. There are so many ways to deliver video and there is so many factors that influence PQ along the way it's difficult to quantify if Verizon or Comcast is better. Where I live Comcast's video PQ on SD and HD is pretty darn good. I do not see any motion artifacts or pixelization. I do not have any analog video since I'm on all digital feed. Where you live you are of the different head-end and that RF plant can have some issues that cause various video degradation. Verizon's delivery architecture is different and most important its newer. It may not be a question of compression but a matter of signal integrity. VZ's signal may just be "cleaner" than what Comcast has and that is the whole different conversation. When VZ manages to launch FIOS TV in Northampton Township I'd definitely do the said comparison myself. Until then I'm not going to render a personal opinion which providers video PQ is superior.

A lot of people on these forums say a lot of things that from technical point of view are completely not true. I wanted to point that out in my posts and set the record straight.

LMolineux

01-18-07, 03:24 PM

People keep it civil ok.

TraderGordo

01-18-07, 03:41 PM

JI do not see any motion artifacts or pixelization.

I have never done a scientific comparison of Verizon/Comcast/OTA digital signals but I wouldn't be surprised if they were all pretty much identical - from what I understand at least with Comcast is that they do not add ANY additional compression to their signal (this is what they claim anyway) so if Verizon does likewise, the only differences should be related to the hardware at the customer's house.

That said, if you do not see ANY motion artifacts or pixelation either you:
1) Haven't been paying attention
2) Have a small monitor/TV
3) Have a monitor/TV that is not capable of displaying the native signal's actual resolution
4) Have bad eyesight

Remember, even with no added compression by your provider, these are still heavily compressed, lossy signals that they are passing on to you. I don' t know though, it seems some people notice these things more than others - everyone who first gets an HDTV and a good signal thinks its amazing and perhaps flawless, the nitpicky folks so common on AVSForum always find something to complain about :) I don't think pixelation is a big deal, but its certainly there, especially if you are looking for it when there's a lot of motion in a given picture. There is no way to properly compare two different providers except with identical monitors side by side (and even then it could be the receiver not the signal itself).

ak3883

01-18-07, 05:10 PM

Does anyone know her why FSN-HD programming on CSN Philly HD is not in HD on the HD channel?

I'm just speculating, I really don't know if this is true or not...

CSN has very limited, if any capability to transmit HD from anywhere other that: Wachovia Center or Citizen's Bank Park. Their studios are inside the Wachovia Center, and that's where they process/send out everything from.

I believe they can recieve and transmit HD broadcast from a CSN in another city, I think a few select Phillies games from the Mets in NYC were in HD, probably because SNY has a brand new studio/facility and has exclusive rights to the NY Mets TV.

So if it isn't coming from South Philly or a CSN station, no HD. I can' think of anything else in HD on CSN other than:
-Flyers games
-Sixers games
-Phillies games
-Daily News Live(sometimes)
-Soul/Wings games?

They do own a mobile HD truck, not sure if they have ever broadcast a live event in HD using it.

JWhip

01-18-07, 05:58 PM

CSN is working on a rebuild that will allow all studio shows to be in HD. That will be completed by August 2007. All studio news shows, post game and DNL will be in HD. They will be adding more and more road HD content. The issue there is one of cost. It costs alot more to get the HD feed from the away venues and until now, my guess is that they felt that there were not enough HD viewers to take on this added cost. That may change for baseball season, I am not sure. NESN does most of the Red Sox road games in HD and the Bruins too. They have obviously made a different financial calculation. It helps that the Red Sox get boffo ratings compared to the Phillies.

GeekGirl

01-18-07, 07:34 PM

The TV is actually doing both, the cable guy said it was called tiling, but it shows the blocks, the screen freezes and splits at the bottom. OK. The easiest thing to do is to swap out the box, which is at no cost to you (except for the trip to the ComCast office). There's no sense going through the motions to diagnose anything if ComCast tells you it's their problem. A new box is the most you can do on your own. If the problem remains, you need to be more aggressive. Sorry, that's all you can do for now.

It is not acceptable to let ComCast leave you with a broken cable service, you are throwing your money away. They have to give you a perfect picture (with digital, that means no blocks or tiling). It's also an FCC requirement to have the correct level at your house entrance (inside the house is your responsibility unless they installed it). There is no getting around this. You also need to give them an opportunity to rectify the problem.

CPanther95

01-19-07, 11:56 AM

newsposter

01-19-07, 12:11 PM

does this link qualify as self updating? :) (not sure how on the ball the FCC is though since whyy isn't even on it)

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=PA&call=&arn=&city=philadelphia&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

ak3883

01-19-07, 01:00 PM

CPanther95

01-19-07, 01:14 PM

That's why I'm asking for the info. The OTA thread has no summary.

QZ1

01-19-07, 04:05 PM

Are there any volunteers to sumarize the OTA situation in Philly? We need someone to list the stations, subchannels, affiliations, tower locations, etc. and be willing to keep the info updated.

This thread has become almost exclusively relating to Comcast.
The OTA thread has been in existence for a while now, yet it isn't listed in the US Thread Index, and the thread starter said he has asked for it to be listed a number of times. We actually still do get some OTA posts, mostly, I guess, due to the lack of a listing of the OTA thread, although it has been decreasing.

At the time of the OTA thread's creation, I had suggested to re-name this thread as a Comcast thread, but others wanted to keep it as general HDTV thread (comcast and OTA). As it turns out, it has now become a thread for Comcast and Verizon, and often comparing the two.

At the moment, I think this thread is fine, but, I wonder, with more Verizon subs each day, if others would want to make this the Comcast thread and create a new Verizon thread?

Quatre

01-19-07, 05:16 PM

if this thread is called Philadelphia HDTV then that woulc include discussion on HDTVS themselves though that could be anywhere not specific to the Philadelphia area unless talking about specific local merchants or locally located chain stores etc.

More likely as it has been its for the source you are getting your hdtv from which consists of OTA, Comcast, and now Verizon FIOS for most of us in the Philadelphia area.

If you want a Philadelphia Comcast specific thread then one should be started and named just that while this one is for broad range Philly hdtv discussion across the board.

CPanther95

01-19-07, 05:17 PM

The OTA thread has been in existence for a while now, yet it isn't listed in the US Thread Index, and the thread starter said he has asked for it to be listed a number of times. We actually still do get some OTA posts, mostly, I guess, due to the lack of a listing of the OTA thread, although it has been decreasing.

At the time of the OTA thread's creation, I had suggested to re-name this thread as a Comcast thread, but others wanted to keep it as general HDTV thread (comcast and OTA). As it turns out, it has now become a thread for Comcast and Verizon, and often comparing the two.

At the moment, I think this thread is fine, but, I wonder, with more Verizon subs each day, if others would want to make this the Comcast thread and create a new Verizon thread?

I don't add a new thread to the Thread Index without a summary and some intent expressed to keep the summary in the first post up to date. Eventually we want all threads to have a summary for newbies in the first post to avoid many redundant questions.

I didn't jump on the OTA thread initially because there was no desire expressed from members to split up the area into subcategories. However, since then I've received a number of requests from members looking for Philly OTA info and in reviewing this thread, it is almost entirely Comcast related and the OTA info is impossible to find.

This thread will become the Comcast thread (assuming we can get the OP to revise the initial post. An additional thread can be started for Verizon.