Originally posted by Clark Burk
Thanks for the reply Mikey. So you have no OTA antenna connection to the DTC100 and it works OK. Great! I take it that the 73711 does a good job on the decoding of the DTC100/AVX recordings. I was wondering if you've played around with the firewire connections and tried hooking up the 73711 in the chain with the DTC/AVX to see what would happen?

No. I have my OTA antenna connected to the DTC 100, as well as my other OTA receivers, although I do not routinely utilize it for OTA. Remember, the DTC 100 was the only show in town for OTA recording before the T-165 and 73711 came along.

The Mits does a fine job of decoding the DTC 100/AVX recordings. I have never attempted playback from the DTC-100 to the 73711 via firewire. I normally utilize my second Mits VCR for playback via firewire. The Mits VCR displays the bit rate, time on the tape etc. while the 30K does not.

As I stated, I have not yet hooked the 169 Time units into the Mits firewire chain

Originally posted by h2ofun
Mikey, I dont understand you comment on dtc100 OTA timer recording.
I do this all the time with the 169time product.

Dave

I was under the impression that the DTC-100 internal timer could not be utilized for any type of D-VHS recording (OTA or D***). If I am wrong, I sure wasted a lot of effort in the past manually switching the DTC 100 to the record mode when the proper time arrived for my OTA program.:o

Yep, the dtc timer works like a champ for OTA recordings. With the JVC that is. Not sure if or how it works with the Mits.

Mikey, the timer on the dtc100 with firewire for OTA works great I believe on all the three DVHS decks.

The timer via firewire with the avx-1 for sat stuff doesnt work yet.

But, on can make the dongle work on the dtc100 for automatic timer.
One can use the LEDs on the dish6000. I have made all my tapes in the last year with the dtc100 firewire timer.

Dave

I made up another of my own avx-1 computers and used with the 4DTV last night. Worked like a champ.

Dave

I'm having a problem recording Sat now. Not getting anything on the screen. Every once in a while I'll get a black flash like its goinna start showing something but then back to the gray blank screen. If I change to an OTA channel it works fine. Nothing on the sat channels. I've unplugged everything and started over twice. Anyone got any ideas? This has been working fine for weeks.

Heres the steps I do.
I first make sure I can see the HD channel on the svideo output.
Then I crank everything up and look at the monitor of the avx-1.
If I dont have the I link correct to see the avx-1, then I just have the s/w sitting there looking for HDVR.

Then if it finds it, I should see the numbers rolling on the screen that aren't zeros.

These are my step by step checks

dave

NM, I found the problem. The I-link numbers had changed. Doh! I1 has ALWAYS been the hdvr but today it was the avx1. Thanks.

Yep, that one got me last night.

dave

Anyone order a dish6000 or HD200 or HD201?

Dave

From Richard on "glitches"

Fyi

I get glitches on the 5000 too.

Use whatever works best for you.

Some signal sources are only available with the AVX1 including west coast
feeds of HBO and Showtime, Mark Cuban's HDNet, HDPPV on DirecTV, and
Discovery HD Theater so the AVX1 is the only solution.

169Time is already working on further software improvements. They realize
they are the only way to record these signals and want to make it even more compatible and robust.

Fyi


Dave

I watched my recording of Spiderman last night. A little over an hour and a half and two of the 1 to 2 second pauses. I didn't take the time to measure the time between them, but they seemed about the 50 minutish period that others have discussed. I got one 'traditional' fast macro blocking glitch towards the beginning and one further in, but those seem like legitimate glitches, while the others seem a bit too regularly spaced to be just glitches in the signal.

169time has the web site updated with all the new products.

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun


The timer via firewire with the avx-1 for sat stuff doesnt work yet.

But, on can make the dongle work on the dtc100 for automatic timer.
One can use the LEDs on the dish6000. I have made all my tapes in the last year with the dtc100 firewire timer.

Dave

Dave:


I have read several of your posts that mention "Dongle". What is a dongle?

You also mention unsodering one wire to get sat. timing with the DTC-100. I hope I am quoting correctly. What wire is that?

Perhaps there is a site or thread that can answer my questions.

Finally, the 6000 modification by 169Time will allow me to make firewire recordings using the 6000's internal timer. Right? In other words it sends a signal via firewire to the D-VHS VCR which turns on the recorder and puts it in the record mode.

I just may order one by 5/10/03. I need another toy.

Forgot to ask: How long is the 6000 firewire connecting cable and I assume placement is not critical?

Mikey, toys are great.

The dongle is the led device the dtc100, and other product have that put out a control signal to a deck. This works fine on the dtc100 to dvhs deck w/o the avx-1. You will have to write 169time about what wire to remove if you want to use the dongle with the avx-1 connected. I know one person has written here they have done it. I would rather use my hand held timer since I dont want to lose my firewire timer with my 5000.

So depending on how you want to do timer, you have a few choices. The only firewire timer support is still only OTA.

No, the 6000, or none of the 169time products do any timer recorder via firewire yet. On the 6000, its either its built in LED timer, or an handheld again.

Richard was still playing with the firewire cable, but the unit I tested had a 16 foot if I remember right.

Dave

Michael Fremer has a mini review of the 169time AVX-1 in his Utopia Theater column in the June 2003 issue of SGHT, page 28. Its the first review that I've seen in a magazine (there may have been others). Dick

Cool, I hear he was doing it, but havent seen it yet.

And he didnt even had B3 s/w.

Dave

Thought this was interesting from Mike, since some have tried to say only the avx-1 has a glitch here and there.

fyi

I sent my deck in 2 weeks ago and got it back last week. I had never recorded HD before but had just bought a new Samsung T-165 and got it the day right after I sent JVC in to be repaired. When I got JVC back the first recording I did recorded 2 hours of perfect HD. Since then I get like maybe 1-2 dropouts\pixellations an hour. It happens real quick and is not bad at all. Also I never had a D-Theater pixel up before and have only played a few minutes of one since getting the JVC back and no pixellation so far. People that are recording HD..Do you ever get an occasional dropout/pixellation? Also when I fast forward I get a frozen image on screen. I sent my JVC to the service center in Lawerenceville, GA. My tape loading mechanism had hung up. I told them to fix that and upgrade to latest firmware. I don't know if mine got the right upgrade or not..what do you think?

Mike

fyi


Dave

fyi

The HDVR firmware is now version 1.8.

The only change is that in the AVX1 mode, the HDVR does not attempt to
control the VCR with the timer. This allows the user to use the IR dongle
without conflict in AVX1 mode, and still use the firewire control in
non-AVX1 OTA mode. Please note that both OTA and satellite can be recorded
with the AVX1, so to be consistent, the AVX1 and dongle can be used for all
timer recording. This firmware change is almost the same as cutting the
yellow-31 wire except that with the firmware change the DTC100's direct
control through firewire is still enabled while with the wire cut all the
DTC100's control VIA FIREWIRE is disabled.

DTC100 timer control summary

Note: dongle is supplied by Thomson and is controlled by STB menu

Note: It's always possible to use the external handheld IR or other IR
controller. This information concerns timer control facilitated by the
DTC100 timer menus


firmware version 1.8
----------------------------
a) Use dongle when AVX1 is used for recording (can be both OTA and
satellite)
b) Direct firewire control if in non-avx1 mode, i.e. DTC100 selected as
intput to deck


firmware version prior to 1.8, i.e. 1.6 and 1.7 with wire NOT cut
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
a) Use external hand held IR controller for AVX1 timer recording
b) Direct firewire control if in non-avx1 mode, i.e. DTC100 selected as
intput to deck


firmware version prior to 1.8, i.e. 1.6 and 1.7 when wire IS CUT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
a) Use dongle for all timer recording


All 6000 HDVR come with version 1.8 or higher and use built in IR emmitter
timer control

Upgrade path for prior DTC100 units not yet announced.

This update isn't on web page yet, but it is consistent with the new
description of the DTC100 HDVR on the web page.

fyi

dave

Thats good news. Is there a fee for this upgrade?

"Upgrade path for prior DTC100 units not yet announced. "

Like before, I assume the minimum is shipping. But, if one bought the one year upgrades, this is out of that. Will let you know when I hear something.

Atleast in the Dish6000 and HD200, it will already be 1.8

Dave

Yes the dongle works great.
For me the firewire connection was critical to make it work as the vcr has to powered off for it to work (see my previous posts).

Watched about 10 movies so far (f*cking impressive :) ).

I always turn the avx1 off during playback (it sometimes makes my jvc go haywire with pixalations).

For Richard:

The only observation (not a complaint Dave ;) ) is the 2.5 second freeze every hour or so.

I finally watched 6 feet under live monitored throught the avx1 and jvc and when it froze, the avx1 said "analyzing-2" then continued. Resink count then went up by 1.

I forwarded a copy of this to his email as well.

on soap box:
PLEASE MAKE A SELF INSTALL KIT FOR THE 6000
off soap box:

Hello dave
Do you know if Richard is working on another AVX 1 software upgrade?
I have the version 03.

I get occasional 2-3 second dropouts about 2 to 3 times during a 1 1/2 movie.

Maybe this new software upgrade for the avx will fix this?

Thanks

Read the posts already here.

Originally posted by h2ofun
From Richard on "glitches"

Fyi

I get glitches on the 5000 too.

Use whatever works best for you.

Some signal sources are only available with the AVX1 including west coast
feeds of HBO and Showtime, Mark Cuban's HDNet, HDPPV on DirecTV, and
Discovery HD Theater so the AVX1 is the only solution.

169Time is already working on further software improvements. They realize
they are the only way to record these signals and want to make it even more compatible and robust.

Fyi


Dave

Just curious but do the new cableTV implementations glitch the same as the rest?

Michael Fremer's Utopia Theater page in the June 2003 Stereophile Guide to Home Theater is all about the 169time products. Mostly positive, and very interesting reading.

Given that Richard has released the 1.8 firmware to work around the AVX-1 timer limitation, does that mean that it is unlikely he will solve that problem via an upgrade to the AVX-1 software?

I've had great success recording with the latest software update. All I need now is a reliable way to set the timer. Perhaps I should just look into that remote that h2ofun uses.....

-Dave

With, the the 1.8 f/w, or just cutting the one wire, one can use the std dongle on the dtc100. I have tried it and works great.

Handheld works great also.

Has Richard given up on firewire avx-1 timer. Nope. But if he cant get it to work at basically 99.9999%, it wont do it. There are some of this stuff, since he doesnt get any companys support, he wont be able to figure out on his on. Doesnt mean he wont keep trying, but, he may at the end only be able to do so much reverse engineering.

I still havent seem Michaels article yet. Think 169time is going to try and get him on the b3 f/w. He wrote the article in Dec if I heard right. Takes a LONG time to get to print.

Dave

Michael Fremer is a happy camper, taping HD with his 30K. And he'll continue to do so until, quote: "....I hear from the lawyers." Does this mean that the 169time mods aren't legal??? My guess is that they are legal, otherwise the MPAA/D*/E* would have shut them down; right??? A quote from the SGHT page: " More than a few people I talked to at the January 2003 CES told me that some customers are unhappy with this modification, particularly when recording satellite programming-experiencing synch problems. Not me-I bought the JVC D-VHS deck I borrowed to check out the mod and I'm taping HD for my own enjoyment happily ever after....or at least until I hear from the lawyers." Dick

Yep, thank goodness we have b3 now for the avx-1!!!

Dave

Its sure nice getting these type of Emails.

"Dave,
Richard may have his quirks like all of us, but the man is a PRINCE. He just emailed me that he had replaced all the guts on my unit ( only the case the same) and it was on the way back, including a new B3 cd. All at no charge! Remarkable since the 90 day warranty had expired some time ago. I hope he makes a fortune on this company. He deserves it for all the crap he has taken. BTW, thanks to you for the help you provided when I needed my 30 k vcr serviced through Marek. It has been working fine since I got it back last April 1.


"


Dave

Did anyone experience a great deal of glitches taping Courage Under Fire last night at 12:30am?

I am starting to wonder if both my JVC30k's are starting to fail or if the recording was bad, the glitches appear in the same place on the tapes in both machines, so is it the JVC30k less tolerable or the AVX1?

Lastly I had a similar problem recording flatliners.

I have never seen the glitches before even in the old B.2 software.

Lon

Lon,

I've thought I was the only person here having any problems. I didn't tape those 2 shows, but I have had some recordings from HBO and SHO with the B3 software that were basically unwatchable. What do your glitches look like? I've had some where I get an image freeze and audio dropout for a few seconds and I get these every 3 to 5 minutes. I was getting frustrated after trying to watch 2 or 3 movies like this, but then I watched the last half of SpiderMan and Hunt for Red October and they were perfect. I had switched to leaving the AVX-1 on and selected by the 30k, then just started the recording with my programmable remote. I'm going back to my old method of leaving the 30k on channel 2 and then having the remote channel down and start the recording at the appropriate time.

I also have two 30ks and the problems in the tapes are reproducable on both.

I still need to do more testing, though. I'm also now going to do recordings exclusively with my updated 30k for a little while and see if that affects things.

--Darin

I had my 30K's do this with my dtc100 and dish5000.

Dave

Darin:

The symptoms are as follows:

The tape will be fine and than go into pixelation for about a second or less but many many times through-out the tape making the movie very difficult to watch, in addition I have gotten a verticle interference across the screen for a second or so and when that happens it usually repeats itself for a duration and then goes away, the vericle interence almost seems analogue in nature as it is not a pixelation.

I had thought originally it may have been a bad tape but I have experienced it 2 or 3 times, lastly I never experienced this with the B.2 software.

I would be happy to send the tape for inspection.

Lon

Dave:

Do you think its the JVC30K's, I would love to send you or Richard the tape and see how it plays on your decks.

Lon

Lon, I sent you a PM

Dave

There is a link for a special price on the JVC deck on the 169time web page.

Dave

Fyi new notes on 169time web.

NOTE: Regarding the mention of our product in Michael Fremer's commentary on
page 28 of the June 2003 issue of the newstand magazine Stereophile Guide to
Home Theater, please note that after that article was written, our AVX1
software has been improved to eliminate previously reported sync problems.
It now works superbly. Please refer to the magazine and also our link above
regarding the AVX1 update for more information.





Dave

Please: No mention of sales at all in this thread OR IT WILL BE REMOVED.

Another question from me about the AVX-1 again (What can I say, I'm still a potential buyer ;) ) . The website states that it does not support SD recording, does this mean it doesn't do it at all or that it can record it but its function is not supported by the development team?

Why would you need it to record SD? The JVC can record in SD without the need of the 169time system to transcode the signal to firewire. All you need to do is run coax, s-video or composite cable from your source to the JVC or Mitsubishi.

I like to record SD. No generational loss and the JVC adds 'extra' setup to analog recordings like the panasonic dvd recorders do. They're too light.

SD isnt supported. I think you get video, but no audio, so I call this doesnt work

dave

You do get audio, you just can't hear it. :) Its mpeg audio. You'll need a receiver that can decode that (kenwood?). The 30k should be able to do this the the stream may not be flagged as such. The 2 channel track on D-Theater tapes is mpeg audio. You can hear audio on the SD channels that broadcast in Dolby Digital. I've confirmed that.

Learn something new every day.

Its still not "supported"

Dave

There's one thing I have to say:
I can't believe that all these set top boxes that are coming out don't offer
I Link output so if we want to record we can't.

At least with the 169 time Co. you can.


The only thing that comes close is the Samsung SIRT-165,but that's only good for over the air.

I don't want the big deal with these manufacturers are trying to do.
This is why Richard with get all the orders.

JVC & Dish Network are taking all their sweet time coming out with their I link version.

Any Comments?

Just my opinion

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK RICHARD

Please correction on above:

I don't know what the big deal is with these manufacturers trying to do.

Its clear, they dont want use to be able to time shift. Plain and simple.

Dave

What's the diffrence wheather you record with a regular vcr or a H igh Definition vcr?

There's always a way to beat the system.

JVC came out with the cart before the horse.

If we waited for jvc we all be up the creek.

HELLO JVC "HOW DO EXPECT US TO RECORD HD WITH YOU COMING OUT WITH YET ANOTHER DVHS DECK & NO WAY TO RECORD THE HD SIGNAL?
DAHH

Originally posted by yrral
HELLO JVC "HOW DO EXPECT US TO RECORD HD WITH YOU COMING OUT WITH YET ANOTHER DVHS DECK & NO WAY TO RECORD THE HD SIGNAL?
DAHH

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but there are a myriad of ways to record to the JVC deck. 169time, Samsung T165, HTPC, Dish 5000, etc. Is there a perfect solution? Nope. Are some of these very good options? Absolutely. Just because JVC doesn't make an STB with firewire AT THE MOMENT doesn't mean this deck is worthless.

I've been using the 169 set up myself.
The thing is why come out with a HD VCR if at the time they didn't offer no
way to record the HD signal.

I know there is other methods as mentioned in the above,but maybe a all in one unit would have been nice(besides the Tivo type hard disk vcr)

You know the more things interconnected is not as good.

But as mentioned if it wasn't like people like Richard where would we be?

yrral-
The MIts DVHS VCR was designed to work well with the Mits HDTV via firewire connection and others via the Promise module board.

The JVC was introduced to connect vir RGB to the monitor and was introduced primarily as a player for their D-Theater line. You are correct that without 169Time we would be hard pressed to purchase new hardware to record HDTV from satellite.

Hello H2 Fun
Can you tell me if Richard is working on another avx software upgade.
I have the latest version.
Maybe another one might be in the works because of the 2 -3 seconds freeze that users been mentioning about here,including myself.

I got a phone call today & heard that Dish Network is releasing th PVR-921
in the next few weeks/

Do you know about this?

Thanks for your help

I have no idea. I just dont hear that many folks are having issues like you.
Again, most seem to be either having no issues, or again, compared to the choices. Now, everyone said the samsung would kill 169time products.
Seems it still is having a few issues. Now the latest bandwagon is the 921, when it really ships, will kill the 169time products. Only time will tell.

Now, maybe I will be surprised.

So, how are others doing? The best offense here is data. When I see Jeff and Don giving the green light, they are folks I use as bench marks as to how things are working.

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
Now the latest bandwagon is the 921, when it really ships, will kill the 169time products. Who said this? And where did they say it?

There is a difference between interest in a new product and saying it will 'kill 169time'. A big difference.

Besides Dave, you should know Dish PVR's are not exactly known for stable function, especially out of the box.

Ken,

That is a good point. The Dish PVR's are generally slow, lacking in features that the TIVO has and usually are very late coming to the party. Delay, delay,delay.......

Jeff

Its just been the feeling I get. Sorry for the over reaction. I just gets so old when we should be thankful for what we have, rather than beat on the .0001% problem. (Luckily now). And again, this is me since its been what two years of being told by some the 169time was nothing be an enron type company.

Sorry

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
Its just been the feeling I get. Sorry for the over reaction. I just gets so old when we should be thankful for what we have, rather than beat on the .0001% problem. (Luckily now). And again, this is me since its been what two years of being told by some the 169time was nothing be an enron type company. Then taking your own best advice, focus on what is the real deal, and let the rest ride. Your efforts speak for themselves and you can let others handle the flack.

Ref. The 2-3 second freeze people are observing.-

I saw this recently on the Thelma and Louise recording. Only once. The interesting thing is I saw it while watching it live and it appeared on the DTC-100 output from my DirecTV Showtime HD connection. I also was monitoring the Dish5000 with Showtime HD off of Dish and recording through the Panny system. During that same time there was no 2-3 second freeze. Actually, it measures out to more like 5 seconds. Could have been a problem with the DirecTV signal or my 110 Sat C kit losing signal but it was definitly on the live transmission and also on the recording. The Dish recording was flawless as usual.

yrral- I heard the same thing today and it was from a CSR. He said to be on the lookout for announcements in June. He said this is an insider rumor at Dish that some big things were to happen with HDTV bundle on July 1 along with HDNet package and the new line of HD receivers including the 921. I mentioned about Charlie Chats' later in the summer prediction and he laughed and just said they know but that's not what the current rumor is.
So take it for what its worth, it comes from the rumor central at the CSR group at DishNetwork. But, recall last year with Discovery HD channel not until September and then bam! 3rd week in June it appeared on the 6000 on the demo channel.

Oh, one other thing about the bundle for HDTV. He said this was primarily for certain channels but not all HD channels due to existing contracts. He said that the anchor for this bundle will include HBO and the new Cinemax HD channel later this year. It probably will not include Showtime in the bundle as they were having trouble getting all the vendors to go with the deal. What he described was a bundle consisting of HBO/Cinemax, NBA channel, ESPN HD, HDNet and HDNet movies for starters. Showtime HD and Discovery HD Theater will be left out at this time due to some conflicts in the contract. He also said that HDNet will be offered to existing clients with the 6000 8psk and the 61.5 +Dish500 package meaning that HDNet stuff will not require a new 105 Super dish, at least not this year. This year the purpose of the Super Dish is for those new customers who want HDTV with just one dish, but the same offerings will be available to those with the older 2 dish setup but will require the 8psk module.

So, if all this happens and the PVR921 doesn't then the new 6000 with the AVX will be the only way still to record HDNet movies.

Hello Don

Thanks for the info regarding the PVR-921 info.
I recieved a call from a CSR at Dish Network & I was told that
the PVR-921 was now avail.,& that I have to get a thru a dealer.

The dealers were Radio Shack or Sears.
I called both dealers up & they have no such model.
I even called a Dish Sat Installer & was told it won't be for a while yet.
So the info. that you provided was a lot more then I know about.

I may be switching from Directv To Dish Network because of the more avail.
HD channels & supposingly better bandwidth with this new Super dish coming out.I guess if it's a better bandwidth that it will be less up conversion.
That may even eliminate the occasional 2-5 seconds freeze that occurs during recording a few times during a course of movie.

Can you tell me if you get less problems recording with Dish Network over Directv?
I guess I read that you have both setups.

Thanks

Now I'm pretty confused about glitches I've seen since getting the B3 software, since I've found that they aren't there while watching live through the component output of a 30k, but are there on playback. I bought the 169time so that I wouldn't have to watch things live, but I figured I would do that today as a test. So, I watched the last half of "Roxanne" on Showtime and then all of "Father of the Bride 2". The only glitch I saw was a split second pixelization near the end of FOTB2, but I think that might have been when my tape (JVC 360 from Japan) ran out.

After the end I rewound the tape about 30 minutes and started watching a little bit. Within 3 minutes I had a freeze and audio dropout of maybe 5 seconds. I've basically been seeing these at least every 10 minutes or so on maybe half my recordings since getting the B3 software. I tried unplugging the firewire and the dropout was still there. So, I took the tape to my other 30k (this one hasn't been sent in for updates) and the glitch is in the exact same spot. So, it is on the tape and this is the behavior I've seen while recording with my non-updated 30k as well as my updated 30k.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Should I buy a Mitsubish 1100u and use it to do all my recordings? I assume these tapes will play back on my 30ks okay. I found an 1100u for about $300, but that was the best I could find. Anybody want to get rid of a working 1100u or 2000u? I passed up on the opportunity that Steve got for about $150 for a new 1100u because it was a misunderstanding at the store and they didn't really want to sell them for that, then some salesmen sold all of them that way.

Any other ideas? It's frustrating to not be able to show HD tapes to guests because I don't know when they'll glitch. I could send my 2nd 30k in, but it doesn't look like that will guarantee anything. I use some straight DVHS tapes (300s and 360s) and some of the higher quality (according to tests posted here) Fuji Pemium S-VHS tapes that I drill.

Before I sent my first 30k in for the updates it seemed to record great, but had problems playing back. The 2nd 30k also used to do a great job of recording, though.

--Darin

So, Richard is still trying to collect some data.

There are some who are saying they are seeing glitches with the 30K.
Is everyone?

How about with the Mits, what are folks finding here?

Dave

I get short glitches with both the 30K and the mits 2000.

I'm getting glitches/pauses. (jvc)

Dave,

I am not seeing anything except the normal resyncs ( fraction of a second ) now and again , but have always had those with either software version. One thing to note is, I have never moved my AVX closer to the rack, it has always been 13 feet away from everything else, don't know if that would have anything to do with it or not. I know some people commented that they now had it in their rack or placed directly on top, etc.

Remember that this is informational only and may have nothing to do with the freezes at all. I still have not had a single failed recording with B3.

Jeff

So far whats been interesting, is again, some say they have issues, and some say they dont. S/W generally works only one way.

I still make the general comment that if one doesnt have a clean enviornment, one wont get as clean a result as possible.

So bottom line, if one is having issues, I still dont see data that says its the avx-1.

Still collecting data.

(Now, looks like there will be a "normal resyncs" once in a while, its the longer stuff that not everyone is having.)

Dave

I think everyone is at least getting the short glitches (resync???). I have always had these even with the old SW. I do not see them on the component out when watching while recording. It has something to do with the AVX/TS Stream because I never get them when recording with the Dish 5000 or OTA.

Jeff, if this is true, then very interesting. I sent your comments to Richard.

Dave

Maybe Richard can figure it out. The glitches are their even if the AVX-1 VGA monitor say their is no resync. I wouldn't call the glitches a resync because the AVX-1 monitor say's their is none. I only get the resysnc message on the AVX-1 monitor our when I change channels or at the start of a 5.1 movie. I would call the glitches a 1/4 second or microsecond freeze of video. The audio never fails.

I thought someone, in another thread, had analyzed the stream and said it was a buffer underrun/overrun that caused them. Maybe the AVX just needs more cpu. Isn't running a VIA C3?

I agree with JeffR. Short 3-4 per hour is all I will say is AVX.

The one single massive non-destructive glitch I saw was recorded to tape but, BUT, I will not say this is an AVX problem yet because it is the only instance I have seen and I saw it on the live signal on DirecTV, not on the live Dish Network Showtime as I had them both running.

"Can you tell me if you get less problems recording with Dish Network over Directv?"
yrral- I think you meant- Does DishNetwork's HDTV channels record with less problems that DirecTV? My answer/opinion is that YES, DishNetwork signal recorded from the 5000/HDTV mod through he DTC-100/HDVR is better and less artifact (glitch of any type) that when I record using the same recorder off theDTC-100/AVX with DirecTV Showtime HD channel (Don't have HBO to compare that channel) The Panny system with a PVHD1000 and the Dish5000/HDTVmodulator with the Panasonic DST50 is still less artifacted than the 169Time stuff but now with B3 software the two are very close and neary tied. Today, I record with one over the other without much worry.

Talking to RIchard, he is looking at the avx-1 system again to see if something can be improved. If anyone has ideas, since he doesnt read avs, please write 169time with any inputs. Team effort

dave

I also get these glitches on playback regardless if Im using the mits or jvc.
These are on the tape and are repeatable.
These were not there on the broadcast.
My AVX is on one side of my couch, the rest of my equipment is on the other side 10 feet away.
Of 30 recorded tapes using the AVX not one is glitch free or perfect. They all have multiple video dropouts.
My over the air recordings with the same equipment are perfect so this points to the AVX.
At this time there is no other solution for recording from Direct. Myself I find using the AVX in its current state a disappointment. While its a great idea it definitely needs refinement and I hope it gets it SOON.
I think there is enough evidence here that the problem IS the AVX.

In my set-up using the old software if I reset the avx1 prior to recording AND the AVX1 stayed in sync it resulted in about 90% perfect recording with no visable "resync, pause, or glitch", but it was a "crap shoot" whether the AVX1 waould stay in sync.

With the new software I only recorded 2 tapes with unwathable glitches, the other tapes have anywhere from 1 to 3 video.audio freeze's per tape which are while a bit annoying thay do not render the tape unwatchable.

Lon

I believe that the new B3 S/W is better than the B2 S/W for recording but is still not perfect. I have an unmodded JVC 30K, AVX-1 and Proscan STB. I too get an occasional freeze or freezes when I play back a pre-recorded tape. For example I recorded Spiderman on HBO and experienced two 2-5 second freezes and a couple of brief resynchs. Most of these were experienced early on in the movie (within the first hour or so). It was mostly watchable though. Yesterday I recorded the Ringo Starr concert on HDNET and had only one freeze at around I believe the 40 minute mark. I was watching the broadcast through the JVC 30K DVHS component output video and saw a dropout for a few seconds while recording. The corresponding place on the tape showed a freeze and then resumed the video approximately 5 seconds later. It was OK since it happened when Greg Lake just started to sing ;) It would be nice to have one more update to the AVX-1 S/W so that the recordings can be glitch free.

The question is how much is related to the JVC.

169time will do everything they can do that they can attempt to control.
But, not 100% of the solution is just the avx-1.

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
The question is how much is related to the JVC.

169time will do everything they can do that they can attempt to control.
But, not 100% of the solution is just the avx-1.

Dave

Well... When recording OTA or the Dish 5000/Mod I get no glitches. When I use the AVX-1 I get glitches with both the JVC and Mits so How can it be blamed on the JVC?

I agree....I think there are still a few tweaks that have to be done to the AVX-1 or S/W for the AVX-1.... Its great while it works....

I think one more upgrade may just do the trick.

It's so close to being perfect.
Just a lousy couple of seconds every so often.

Did any body notice that the first couple of glitches happen mostly before the first hour?

The longer the tape I found is recorded the glitches take longer to come up.

JR You have Dish network & Directv?
Is Dish network more reliable because of a better bandwidth?
Do you use 2 dishes for HD?
Just want to know instead of 1 dish doing all the work with 3 lnbs
that's close together,that maybe the dish with 2 separate dishes might be better.

Larry

I too have glitches regardless of the DVHS machine being used. As others have mentioned these glitches don't appear on the components out of the 30k but do appear on the tape itself during playback. I'll have to say that the new software and it's stability has made a cumbersome unreliable recording system to a useable consistent recording system. It'd be reliable if it had those glitches/resyncs worked out.

Since I no longer have my 5K+mod, I'm actually using my AVX now. I could live with the resyncs, but it'd be great to get rid of them.

I continue to push Richard to see if he can make more improvements.
Atleast its useable now. Not perfect, but useable.

Dave

Dave

I am convinced it "IS" the AVX. I can record with my Mits or the JVC. Same result.
I also have the new JVC on its way. Cant wait. Ill post if I get the same drop outs with that machine as well.

"at least its usable now" It was usable before and not perfect and its still not perfect but its close.
I hope he can fix it. It is very close.

I dont mean to complain, Im just as excited about the product as anyone else but if it isn't perfect then it does not work. I along with everyone else want perfect.

If this were to go to market and the advertising read " great product, does not work perfect but at least its usable" sales would be disappointing and the product might be labeled a blunder. Im sure if we were to buy a car and the breaks dropped out a few times on every trip we would buy a different car.

Luckily most of us on this forum including myself are tweaker's and dont mind a few glitches per movie ( well I do) but we do hope it is a product in the works to perfect its FEW shortcomings.

Im grateful for all efforts put into this. It just needs to be polished. Hopefully soon, PLEASE! Its so close.

Alan, Richard is as frustrated as everyone else. Getting the last little corner case is not easy. I know he is working on it, but until he finds root cause, all he can do is keep trying things. I like Dons beat.

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
I continue to push Richard to see if he can make more improvements.
Atleast its useable now. Not perfect, but useable.
Dave

I received the 169Time modified Dish 6000 yesterday and did extensive testing over the last 18 hours. I performed numerous cross-compatibility checks with existing equipment, and here's what I came up with. All results used a Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U for recording and playback (except the Panasonic TU-DST50, which will only play back with a PV-HD1000).

HDTV Decoder - Results
------------------
1. Samsung SIR-T165 - Numerous video breakups, with nearly constant artifacting along the bottom of the picture. Strangely, the audio is fine. This, unfortunately, is the worst of the bunch, and is unwatchable.

2. 169Time modified DTC-100 - Video hesitation and breakups, usually 1-2 per minute. This was a big disappointment, because I always believed the MPEG decoder in this design was very robust and forgiving. Also, 169Time equipment should be cross-compatible, which it is not.

3. Victor HM-DH30000 (used as decoder only) - Perfect video and audio. This was quite surprising, as the JVC does not play back Panasonic recorded tapes without audio problems. The Victor/JVC 30k is a must-have for the 169time Dish 6000/AVX-1, as it's the only way to get perfect playback results.

4. Panasonic TU-DST50 + PV-HD1000 - Video breakups, but less noticeable and less frequent than the Samsung or DTC-100. I would call it barely watchable, but not really the way to watch AVX-1 recordings. I must say, my 3 year old PV-HD1000 still does an admirable job playing back almost anything.

Dish 6000 / AVX-1 connectivity problems
--------------------------------------------------
There are other issues with this solution. It's obvious that this design is intended to be used with one of the Victor/JVC 30k decks, with this type of Firewire wiring diagram:

Dish 6000 -- Victor/JVC 30k -- AVX-1 (WORKS)

The Dish 6000/JVC 30k/AVX-1 combo works well because every node recognizes each other and the AVX-1 starts to convert MPEG packets almost automatically. (And as noted above, the 30k is the only MPEG decoder I have which plays back AVX-1 recordings reliably).

Unfortunately I wasted a LOT of time trying to get the AVX-1 to record with the Mits. 1100U, to no avail. Well, the FIRST time I connected everyone together haphazardly the AVX-1 began converting packets, but I haven't been able to replicate the startup conditions to get the 1100U to work; the AVX-1 just sits there, 'waiting for a request to transmit' (next time I'll take better notes).

Secondly, after failing to get things working with the Mits. 2000U, I almost gave up until I did some reading on Don Landis' webpage. Then his helpful hints page gave me a thought: rearrange the connections of the Firewire devices. Easier said than done, though. The Firewire dongle cable that comes out of the Dish 6000 has a 4 pin connector on the end, which basically forces you to connect the Dish 6000 to a D-VHS deck first, then the D-VHS deck to the AVX-1, as follows:

Dish 6000 -- Mits. 2000U -- AVX-1 (DOES NOT WORK)

Grrrr. I tore the lid off the Dish 6000 and replaced the 4 pin to 4 pin dongle cable with a 4 pin to 6 pin cable so I could connect the 6000 directly to the AVX-1, as follows:

Dish 6000 -- AVX-1 -- Mits. 2000U (WORKS)

BOOM! After rebooting the AVX-1 it started converting packets for the 2000U. Unfortunately this same wiring diagram still would not work with the Mits. 1100U:

Dish 6000 -- AVX-1 -- Mits. 1100U (DOES NOT WORK)

You might ask, why not just record and playback with your Victor 30k? Well, the transport failed like many of them after about 200 hours of use, and I'm not sure how to go about salvaging a Japanese model. :) The JVC 30k has caused much heartache on the forum, and should not be the model around which 169Time products are designed.

Conclusions
--------------
1. The Dish 6000/AVX-1 recordings can only be played back reliably through a Victor/JVC 30k MPEG decoder.
2. Out of the box, the Dish 6000/AVX-1 only records reliably with the JVC 30k.
3. The Dish 6000/AVX-1 will record to the Mits. 2000U IF the Dish 6000 is connected directly to the AVX-1 (this requires a change of the Dish 6000's 4 pin Firewire cable to a 6 pin cable).

Overall I'm pretty mixed about the results. After shelling out 2 grand for 169Time products, I expect better performance from these solutions than I am getting (particularly with respect to AVX-1 recordings). Yeah, yeah, they're the only game in town if you want to record HDNet and Discovery HD. But the truth is, the Dish 5000 - Samsung SIR-T165 - Mits. D-VHS combo has been my best investment in HD recording gear. It cranks out the most reliable recordings and will continue to be my primary source of HD content - that is, until 169Time improves the cross-compatibility of recordings that come from the AVX-1. Having said that, I would be happy to lend a Samsung SIR-T165 to Richard so he can target software improvements for this STB. I would really like to see the Samsung be the target MPEG decoder for 169time solutions since it has the power to be a sort of universal decoder (it already handles D-Theater tapes, Panasonic recordings, and DTC-100 OTA recordings perfectly, and is an excellent Firewire- DVI bridge).

Regards,
Dylan

P.S.: I forgot to note that the breakups and hesitations I observed have nothing to do with 'resyncs'. The AVX-1 only resynced if I changed channels on the Dish 6000. My suspicion on the breakups is that the formatting of the MPEG stream, possibly the time stamping, is out of specification. The data is all there, as the JVC 30k can reproduce artifact-free audio and video, but somehow the presentation of the data is somehow confusing the other MPEG decoders.

If Richard needs any equipment to help solve this ( sometimes you've posted in the past he did not have a certain receiver) let us know. Im sure there are plenty here ready help.

Theres a live Heart concert on HDNet as I write this. If not for the AVX I would not have a chance of getting this on tape so while there are still issues with the AVX its times like this Im glad I have one :)

Originally posted by Alan Gouger

Theres a live Heart concert on HDNet as I write this. If not for the AVX I would not have a chance of getting this on tape so while there are still issues with the AVX its times like this Im glad I have one :)

I agree. I hope I didn't sound overly critical in my report. It's still a nice solution to have, and is the most amazing hardware hack I've ever seen. :)

-Dylan

Right, wrong, good or bad, the main target dvhs deck is the JVC/Victor. It has less issues by far than the Mits. Since 169time is basically a one man techincal show, I and other focus him on getting a single solution combo working as best as possible. It would be great to have all this other stuff work too, but ..... lets get the avx-1 with the JVC as perfect as possible first.

Dave

I also think it has been an amazing job getting this far. However, I've also grown tired of not being able to show stuff to guests without watching it first or wondering if it will work, or even wondering if I'll be able to get through something without missing out on maybe 5 seconds of dialog every 5 minutes. Much of this could be blamed on the 30k in the past and I don't know how much is my environment. However, with the B2 software it seemed like things worked pretty glitch free if the end of the recording was still in sync. So, I generally knew which tapes to rerecord, but there are other advantages to the B3 version.

I was going back and forth on getting DishNetwork for a while, but last week I got a 5000 and a modulator and will be ordering DishNetwork with a 6000 early next week. Now I'm going back and forth between keeping my AVX-1 and Proscan version of the DTC100 or selling those. I would miss out on taping HDNet, but I've got quite a bit saved up and hopefully by the time I got tired of repeats on Discovery-HD, Dish would have more HD channels and their PVR. If I did this I wouldn't rule out getting the 6000 modified if the 921 pushes out. As others have said, the 169time solution seems very close to ideal.

--Darin

Originally posted by h2ofun
Right, wrong, good or bad, the main target dvhs deck is the JVC/Victor. It has less issues by far than the Mits.

Since 169time is basically a one man techincal show, I and other focus him on getting a single solution combo working as best as possible. It would be great to have all this other stuff work too, but ..... lets get the avx-1 with the JVC as perfect as possible first.

Dave
Dave,

Let's not lose sight of the fact that, IMO, the biggest issue is the MPEG formatting from the AVX-1, not D-VHS decks proper. The Mits. deck played through the JVC 30k is the best choice for AVX-1 recordings for now, since it avoids the transport issues of the JVC. But down the road, we shouldn't be stuck with just one magical MPEG decoder to play back our archives. JVC is rumored to have changed the MPEG decoder in their 40000U deck. It might become difficult to sell 169Time solutions if there is only one discontinued D-VHS model they will work with. Hmm, that reminds me of the days when Panasonics fetched $1000 on eBay...

-Dylan

"Dish 6000 -- Mits. 2000U -- AVX-1 (DOES NOT WORK)

Grrrr. I tore the lid off the Dish 6000 and replaced the 4 pin to 4 pin dongle cable with a 4 pin to 6 pin cable so I could connect the 6000 directly to the AVX-1, as follows:

Dish 6000 -- AVX-1 -- Mits. 2000U (WORKS) "


Dylan- Great work!

Could you do one additional test now that you have found a connection method for the Mits 2000U and the 6000?

Could you play back that Mits 2000U made tape with the conventional:

DTC100/HDVR --- Mits2000U and tuned to an OTA channel.

Based on your test results, the way to wire the system would be:

DTC/100HDVR ---Mits2000U --- AVX --- 6000 for record of Dish channels

Break the connection at the AVX-6000 for record of the DirecTV channels (not sure about this but this is where I would start.


Break the connection between Mits2000U and the AVX in this chain to play back the tape. (I know this would be required) assuming that your playback test works.

dahester - interesting about the Mitsu 1100u not working. Prevaling wisdom was that it should work every bit as well as the 2000u.

HDVR100->AVX1->2000u does ineed work.

Also using DVHStool (on a PC) with Elecard video filters allows good playback too.

"Right, wrong, good or bad, the main target dvhs deck is the JVC/Victor. It has less issues by far than the Mits."

Dave- I don't see how you can say that! We have documented a host of issues with the JVC deck itself that really make it a very bad set of odds for success. We also have seen the channel up/channel down and other contortions just to use this for record that are far simpler with the Mits.
As for the Mits, what issues are you referring to? The only one I know of is that you are forced to play your tapes using the 169Time system. I use 169Time for playback of all my tapes now as I find the Mits/169Time solution easier than switching my Projector over to the Panny system. I find it rather interesting that you consider using 169Time hardware for playback an "issue." I certainly don't here.
So let's compare for playback only-
With the JVC, you need to switch your monitor to the JVC component output.
With the Mits, I need to switch from whatever channel I have to an OTA 8VSB channel.

For record, I believe you need to do some channel up/down in the I list and hit record.

For the Mits, I need to have the AVX connected and hit record. The MIts senses the proper connection- AVX automatically.

Where's the issue? I still say it is the deck that buyers are at risk with.

Finally, I understand that Richard is working with the JVC deck as his in house machine for compatibility. He borrows a Mits to verify it works or not. He has not even had the Mits long enough to write an instruction set for it so I don't feel he can say the Mits is full of issues either. The only thing I would agree to is that the Mits works, just different than the JVC.

I think the main reason why Richard tests with the JVC is because he has one and that in itself is convenient.

Richard had a Mits long enough to see how the communcations work vs the JVC. My comments stand. (Not saying I am right though)

Dave

Originally posted by PVR
dahester - interesting about the Mitsu 1100u not working. Prevaling wisdom was that it should work every bit as well as the 2000u.

HDVR100->AVX1->2000u does ineed work.

Also using DVHStool (on a PC) with Elecard video filters allows good playback too.

I finally got the Mits. 1100U to work with 'the rig'. It's even better than the 2000U now because no cable modification is needed on the 6000. Here's the procedure.

1. Unplug the Mits. 1100U. Remove any Firewire connections to it.
2. Plug the Mits. back in. Turn it on.
3. With the 6000 already booted and tuned to an HD channel, plug its Firewire connection into the Mits.
4. With the AVX-1 booted and 'Looking for HDVR', plug its Firewire connection into the Mits.
5. Go into the menu of the Mits. and force it to search for Firewire nodes using the 'cancel' button. A D1 and D2 connection should appear, but only D2 will be recordable.

So for completeness:

Dish 6000 -- Mits. 1100U -- AVX-1 (WORKS)

That's it. You should see the AVX-1 showing that it is streaming data on its monitor output.

I tried this procedure on the Mits. 2000U - still no go. Don, I will try your connection diagram next.

-Dylan

Originally posted by h2ofun
Richard had a Mits long enough to see how the communcations work vs the JVC. My comments stand. (Not saying I am right though)

Dave


I've seen some issues between PC and Mitsu 1100 as well. From time to time it would record junk (lots of breakups, unwatchable tape). Never had that problem with the JVC.

I've watched about 20 movies completely through and these are my results: (DTC 100, Avx1, JVC deck)(satellite recording)

For me to record with the JVC, I leave it set on I-2 then power it off.
I have the infrared dongle of the DTC 100 placed in front of the JVC.
I monitor the DTC via S-video and goto the guide, highlight the movie I want, press info, then record (timer is now set).
When the time comes, the DTC powers on the JVC, hits record and powers it off when it is done.
This, so far has worked 100% of the time.

Playback on JVC (for me):

I turn the Avx1 off. If I don't, I usually, but not allways, get audio drop outs and video studders (not freeze) every 1-5 minutes.

I tune the JVC to channel 20 (but disconnect the antenna cable). For a while, it would work with the antenna hooked up, but now, if it is, the DTC won't lock on sat signal (stays "searching for sat signal")(took me a while to figure that one out).

If I do the above, it plays fine. The ONLY issue I get, is the 2.5 second freeze once or twice a movie.(I get the odd studder, but only once every third movie or so)

For me, next to the stability, its the auto timer that makes it usable. It only takes a few seconds to set, and you never screw up (ie: enter time wrong)

Hope this helps

Judd321. Cool. I use a handheld remote timer since I already bought it.
Even though it may glitch a few small times in a movie, compared to B2, we never have the lose sync issue. And I will again say, until someone else comes out with a Direct TV product, I would rather have a 99.9% solution than none at all.

Dave

Dave- What is the longest standby time yoyu can do with the AVX connected for a timer recording?

I have found the AVX will time out in a few days and lock up, therefore the remote timer function has a limit that is less then one week. I think 3 days.

If the AVX is in a state of "Looking for HDVR" then as soon as connection is made and it begins the conversion process is whae that countdown starts.
What I'm saying is that I don't think it is possible to schedule a timer recording with the AVX longer than a few days away or it will fail.

Well another blow using the AVX.

Not only does it not support my new Samsung 165 box ( this was discovered by others) but it also does not work with DVHSTool.

Anything transfered from tape that was recorded by the AVX transfered to hard drive using DVZHSTool ends up with audio drop outs and video glitches ever 2 seconds.
Alot of people are having this trouble. Anything recorded using the same equipment to tape and transfered using DVHSTool transfers and plays back perfect.

Dave maybe Richard can download DVHSTool and give it a try. Its a very user friendly program that any non pc guy (me) can use:)
Its free to.

Actually now that I think about it, it is quit possible the files are transferring fine but the issue is between the HiPix/Myhd Card and the AVX.

Alan, the avx-1 today does not support PC based recording. This has been stated a number of times. TOday, its only OTA which I am working on to get going on. PC based AVX-1 is in the next possible release.

Don, here is the answer I got to your question.

fyi

There wasn't previously a reported limit, and there wasn't a limitation
intended in the design.

With the deck and the DTC100 firewire active, and the AVX1 not selected as
the input to the deck, the AVX1's VGA output should indicate "waiting for
request to transmit."

fyi

Dave

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Actually now that I think about it, it is quit possible the files are transferring fine but the issue is between the HiPix/Myhd Card and the AVX.
Alan,

Just wanted to expand on what Dave said. It is true that satellite files recorded with the AVX-1 aren't supported for PC playback. However, some of us have tried it anyway. Some have reported being able to get some HDNet recordings to play back with just a few glitches. Leszek did an analysis on an HDNet recording with the B3 software that I did and it reported many timing issues with the stream. I don't think anybody has gotten HBO-HD or SHO-HD recordings to work without big problems. I gave examples of each to Leszek in case he wants to run an analysis on those, also.

I had been hoping that these issues were related to the original stream from DirecTV, but it sounds like similar results have been observed with Dish recordings from the 6000 through the AVX-1.

I think some of us are hoping that at some point one of the PC decoders will be as immune to timing issues as the DTC-100 and 30k decoders seem to be for these streams and that they will start playing back fine. That is one way that things could work. In the meantime I bought a 5000 and decoder so that I could play HBO-HD and SHO-HD recordings from my PC.

--Darin

Dave you missunderstood.

I know the AVX does not support recording on the PC.

I am talking playing back a tape recorded from the AVX.
Once the tape is recorded it should play back on other machines just as it does the mits or the jvc.

We have found out it does not support the decoder in the Samsung box and now we know it also does not support the decoder in the HiPix/MyHD card for playback..not recording. You should be able to play this tape back using any playback device that support the same file system.

DVHSTool converts the digital information from the Tape recorded from any tape machine into MYHD TV files or HiPix files but unforunetly we get drop outs worse than what we get from the original recording using the AVX.

Alan, I will have to ask about this.

Dave

Thanks Dave

For me its not a big deal. I am using the AVX on a limited basis hoping for another upgrade soon but others are complaining in another thread and they may migrate over to this thread soon.

On another note I wonder if I were to let Richard borrow my Samsung box if he could get the software to work with it.
Im talking fire wire from any of the decks into the the Samsung and DVI out to a display device.
This is a popular box that is now worthless unless using it for OTA recorded tapes.
If he could get this combo working it would make a lot of people happy.

Something important, next generation DLPs and digital projectors will include Firewire inputs. We are 6 months away but people owning the AVX will want to record using the AVX and playback directly through the display.
The way things look now this will not be happening.

Originally posted by Don Landis
Dave- WEhat is the longest standby time yoyu can do with the AVX connected for a timer recording?

I have found the AVX will time out in a few days and lock up, therefore the remote timer function has a limit that is less then one week. I think 3 days.

If the AVX is in a state of "Looking for HDVR" then as soon as connection is made and it begins the conversion process is whae that countdown starts.
What I'm saying is that I don't think it is possible to schedule a timer recording with the AVX longer than a few days away or it will fail.

Don:

I have gone weeks at a time without resseting the AVX1 whole connected to JVC30K.

Lon
LOn

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Well another blow using the AVX.

Not only does it not support my new Samsung 165 box ( this was discovered by others) but it also does not work with DVHSTool.

Anything transfered from tape that was recorded by the AVX transfered to hard drive using DVZHSTool ends up with audio drop outs and video glitches ever 2 seconds.
Alot (A lot) of people are having this trouble. Anything recorded using the same equipment to tape and transfered using DVHSTool transfers and plays back perfect.

Dave maybe Richard can download DVHSTool and give it a try. Its a very user friendly program that any non pc guy (me) can use:)
Its free to. (It's free too)

Leszek1 and I have been posting about this for a while. Some decoders can handle the AVX1 created stream OK, and other glitch. The Janus chip based cards (like the HiPix) have frequent stutters when trying to play them back. You may find that you have much better luck playing them back if you install Elecard Video Filters into DVHStool, and play them back in software on a fast PC.

Now, that would be cool. No need to purchase any other h/w than what I have. Any idea when a version will be ready to try?

Dave

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------You may find that you have much better luck playing them back if you install Elecard Video Filters into DVHStool, and play them back in software on a fast PC. ---------------------------

PVR

Would the FusionHDTV II allow me to accomplish this or by adding the filters can I use a software dvd player for playback?

I love the instant access and skip options the HD PC based cards offer verses the sluggish use of tape. Saves the ware and tear on my HDVHS
not having to use it for playback:)

Dave and Lon-

The AVX will run here for weeks without needing reset too. I was talking about the AVX connected and converting data, like the VCR was recording to a very long tape but just not in record mode. I believe the JVC 30K, in your case, Lon, was I switched out of the AVX connection during your week to several weeks marathon.
In standby mode, "looking for HDVR" it will run long here as well. But when converting data, the line count gets over 13000 I believe 3-4 days, it locks up requiring a reboot. I guess no one has pushed the AVX this way yet. If you had a Mits on timer for a week delayed event then you may also see it.


Alan- FYI: I am of the opinion that the AVX made recordings are required to be played back on an AVX compatible system. My Mits/AVX recordings will not play back in the Panny DST50 system. Yet, the Mits OTA (sans AVX) will play fine in the Panny system.

Alan,

I have the Fusion 1 card, and the same Fusion software. I will give it a try and let you know.

Untimately DVHStool is a better choice because it runs as software only. The Fusion software will not run unless it detects that you have the Fusion card installed, so the cost is much higher (free vs $160+)

PVR

I have the filters selected in the DVHS settup from WinDVD. Can I use that
with in DVHSTools to playback files. I guess Ill give it a try and see what happens.

I also have one other question Id like to ask here instead of starting a new thread.

Any software available that would allow me to split up the DTV transport stream files from MYHD/HiPix into smaller sizes allow finer editing?

Thank you!

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Any software available that would allow me to split up the DTV transport stream files from MYHD/HiPix into smaller sizes allow finer editing?HDTVtoMPEG2 versions 1.09 and 1.10 can be used to edit transport stream files. I use them to combine files as well, but I think they can be used to split files, too. You can search for links in the Home Theater Computer forum.

Originally posted by PVR
DVHStool is also being changed so that it can talk directly to an HDVR board in a DTC100. In that case you could play files from the PC directly to the decoder iin the DTC100...... h2ofun - regarding DVHStool to DTC100... Maybe I spoke too soon. It is not official yet... Just a "rumor" now. It will be available if/when Rick is ready.That would be great news if it comes true and can work glitch free. I think that combination would provide stiff competition to the PVR921 for HDTV recording enthusiasts.

Dave, Alan, Darin and others,

Looking at the output of the AVX1, the transport stream has been improperly muxed. There are buffer overruns for standard size buffers when decoding the stream. Some MPEG2 decoders implement larger size buffers than those dictated by the standard. Those decoders will deal better than others when decoding AVX1 streams.

Samsung T165 is based on the Teralogic chipset, just like HiPix, MyHD etc. Those implementations have standard size buffers and will not play the AVX1 streams without problems.

Leszek

Originally posted by PVR
DVHStool is also being changed so that it can talk directly to an HDVR board in a DTC100. In that case you could play files from the PC directly to the decoder iin the DTC100.

That will be a nice trick, but will only solve 1/2 the problem. AVX-1 recordings of DirecTv material are problem-free through the DTC-100, but I'm observing video glitches with Dish material.

There is no 'universal' hardware decoder which will play all our current and legacy tapes problem-free.

I don't want to sound like a complainer, however. I would like to encourage forum members to assist Richard and Dave where possible. I'm sure Alan and others (myself included) would be happy to lend out equipment. More importantly, since the issue is software related, we need people like leszek1, ricka, and dr1394 who have the means to analyze transport streams to assist in refining the AVX-1 software (thanks Leszek for your input).

-Dylan

Thanks Leszek

This explains the very limited window of compatibility Im finding using anything recorded by the AVX with other products.

If this is the problem then the work has been done for Richard as far as pointing out what now needs to be done to improve some of the problems people are having and a fix would put the AVX on a new level of appreciation and probably wouldn't hurt sales as well:)

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
On another note I wonder if I were to let Richard borrow my Samsung box if he could get the software to work with it.
Im talking fire wire from any of the decks into the the Samsung and DVI out to a display device.
This is a popular box that is now worthless unless using it for OTA recorded tapes.
If he could get this combo working it would make a lot of people happy.

Alan,

I tried the T165 box with AVX-1 recordings on my HT1000 and it was such a tease. With HD film material the image quality increase going DVI from the T165 instead of component from the 30k was huge. The improvement in lack of noise in the images was as much as I've noticed with these new DVI DVD players over TheaterTek. However, I had to return the T165 because of the problems at the bottom and right side of the images and the inconsistent playback that others have noticed. It would definitely be a great step to be able to play these files back through the T165, IMO.

One downside of DLP projectors has been that they tend to bring out the noise. However, I think these DVI devices have improved that aspect significantly. I expect the 921 with DVI to look very good and enabling an all DVI path that works would be a good way for 169time to improve their product, IMO. To bad JVC didn't step forward with the 40k and add DVI. I think the gap between DVD and their D-Theater narrowed quite a bit with them sticking with component.

Leszek,

Great job. It would be nice if it turns out that the buffer size issues also have something to do with some of the other glitches that people see and that fixing them would improve all playback.

--Darin

Alan,
The DVico Fusion software does seem to be able to play HDnet recordings. I had it crash one time but that may have been unrelated.

Although, I am not completely satisfied with the Fusion software...

DVHStool with Elecard filters will play "stutter free" on my 2.4GHz P4 with NVidia card.
DVHStool will stream a directory full of HiPix "minute files".

DVico fusion will stutter badly if I use DXVA mode. If I use the DVico/Fusion native renderer then the image looks a bit blurry. Some fine detail is lost.
DVico Fusion does not parse the HiPix file naming scheme. It will play one minute file then stop.

I did two digital camera photos from my screen - one with HDnet test pattern playing through DVHStool/Elecard, and one from DVico Fusion software (non DXVA). The photos are pretty bad, but you may be able to see the problem I have with the fine details (small type) with the Fusion software.

Don:

Whem I say AVX1 is connected to JVC30K, I mean the JVC30K is selected to I-2, which is the AVX1.

While connected the AVX1 and JVC30K can communicate for weeks at a time with-out the need for resseting, this is of course with B-3 software, with the old B-2 software the communication time between the AVX1 and the JVC30k was limited to between 2-5 hours sometimes less.

This is how I now am able to do Timer recording with near 100% accuracy except for the 1 or 2 freezes I get during a tape of which the AVX1 recovers.


Lon

Okay, here is my status. I have used DVHStools 2.13. I have been able to record HD bits from either my Victor 35000 dvhs deck, or the OTA signal from my DTC100 using either OTA or the dish 5000.

I have then been able to restore this file onto tape on my victor, or use the decoder in the dtc100 and watch the HD from the RGB output. Cool.

Rick, I didnt have any issues. I only had the dtc100 connected to the computer at one time.

I didnt understand how easy is was with DVHStools now. Boy have you guy done a GREAT job with the tool!!!!.

Dave

Rick, I just took my avx-1 and recorded onto my Victor 35000. I then used DVSHtool to copy the HD onto my Hard drive. I then used DVHStool to archieve into the dtc100 where I was able to watch live with its decoder on my HD display. I didnt realize one could use a PC and DTC100 decoder to watch avx-1 streams. Again, cool.

Dave

Thanks, Lon.

This is interesting now. I don't recall the exact error message that I get when attempting to connect the AVX on-line for a week timer recording but it was something that indicated an out of memory or out of buffer or something to that effect. I need to write this stuff down! :( Anyway, It's happened twice now when I am away for a week trip. When I'm here I never have a long enough period where my Mits sits idle for weeks on end with it in record standby mode. I play back tapes too often to time out the AVX.

Just so I'm clear on the JVC connection, I thought you had to add extra steps to the timer remote that would channel up the AVX before record. I don't do that here because the Mits doesn't have anything to channel up to. If you can leave your JVC set on the AVX for weeks at a time, then you appear to be doing something no one else is doing as others, I thought, had to do the channel swap in the I list before recording. I think every post on the JVC leaves me confused on how people use it with the AVX. I'm sure if I had one it would be easier to understand.

Don, with B3, it doesnt matter if the jvc sees the dtc100. I just change the I link to the avx-1, and turn it off. I then program my timer and point it and leave.

Dave

Don, I monitor my DTC through the JVC (I don't have enough component inputs on my amp, so I watch the DTC live through the JVC and the Avx1).
Connected like this, when I need to play a tape, I can just press play, no switching of the amp required (I do turn the Avx off during playback because sometimes it causes glitches during playback(unscientific anaylisis).
Doing this, it will run for days at a time with no problems.(exactly how long, I have not measured).
When I record, I have to turn the JVC off (because the DTC dongle sends a power toggle before the record signal).
When the JVC is off, the Avx monitor says "waiting for signal to transmit".
I have the firewire JVC > DTC > Avx1

Hope this helps

PS, as a side note, the last 2 recordings from Hbo, had aprox 4 freezes per movie (normally 2). On top of that, they had about 5-7 micro glitches (which I've never had before as long as the avx1 is off during playback).
Don't know if its a directv glitch or if my JVC is starting to act up.
Will keep posted if new info.

Don:

With old software(B.2) the timer record process was to set the JVC to channel 2(one up from I-2, which was AVX1) so that the JVC30K and AVX1 where not communicating, set the Timer record on external timer to channel down the JVC30K(I-2, AVX1), and record.


With new software(B.3) I just set my external timer to set DTC100 to proper directv station(HBOHD, HDNET, or SHOHD) and record.

Lastly if I where to be going on vacation for an extended amount of time, say greater than one week, than I would use the first method of recording.


Hopes this clears some things up


Lon

Question for the team. Folks have offered to help 169time with their development efforts by loaning so equipment. Well, in order to progress on the HDPC based compatibility with the avx-1, they are asking if anyone can load any of the PC based HD cards for this testing.

Thanks

Dave

I can loan both a MYHD TV card and a HiPix card.
Let me know.

Dave,

Great to hear that Richard is looking into this. I'm no longer on the fence about selling my AVX-1 and modified DTC-100. I'll be keeping them for a while hoping for more progress.

Sounds like you got enough with the HiPix and MyHD, since if those work I would expect the AccessDTV to work since it is based on the same decoder.

--Darin

I give up! I don't think you all are understanding what I am saying. The point was that the AVX has a max time that it will translate. It appears to be somewhere between 3-4 days and one week.
I fully understand that when the AVX is "looking for HDVR", Channeled not to select the AVX (Lon's first method), Or just shut off (Dave), it isn't using up the translation cycles.
Please try to understand that what I'm talking about is when the AVX IS in translation mode, there appears to be a maximum time it will work. If you don't have it turned on or you have it channeled up or down but not in the channel position of where it needs to be to actually record, or you have it shut off, it is not in a position to function and use up the count.

"With old software(B.2) the timer record process was to set the JVC to channel 2(one up from I-2, which was AVX1) so that the JVC30K and AVX1 where not communicating, set the Timer record on external timer to channel down the JVC30K(I-2, AVX1), and record.
Lastly if I where to be going on vacation for an extended amount of time, say greater than one week, than I would use the first method of recording. "


Lon, as I suspected you have confirmed that your AVX is NOT in a translation mode for longer than a week without needing reset. It is essentially in a position where it is waiting to start translating the signal and therefore not using up the translation count like it is when recording.

The longest I have successfully held the AVX in translating mode was for 2 days. In the future I will determine the maximum translating count and time the AVX will work. The problem is I have to catch it as it scrolls off the screen when that count is exceeded. It is easier to just determine that after that after x # of days the AVX will use up it's translation buffer if that's what it is called.


On a different note, I have determined that the cause for a number of glitches on channel 543 recording was weak signal from the sat C LNB. There is no glitching on my HDNet recordings that I have seen. This is with B3 software. Therefore at this time I don't have a reliable sat C signal to run any "glitch" testing on Channel 543.

Don, thats what I said (I think).
Since I monitor my DTC through the JVC (I have no video hooked up to the DTC), it converts data all the time (until being shut off for record).
As I said, it will run some days at time, but I have not kept track of how long.

I think you are on to something with your time estimate (2-7 days)
I just checked it this (Tues)morning (after being left on since Sunday night) and the picture was locked. Data was still scrolling on the screen though.
To get it working again, I had to channel up, the screen then said 'waiting', channel back down to I-2 and it worked. Line count continued from where it left off.

Its a busy time for me right now, but I will try and get a better estimate of how long it will run if I can.

Hope this helps

Don:

I fully understand your question, in my set-up the AVX1 and JVC30K CAN stay connected and communiccating in excess of weeks at a time, but I would not press it if I were to be going on vacation for a period longer than a week if I could record just as easy using my method of not letting them communicate until record time.

Lon

Don, am I hearing you correctly. You have determined you have a weak signal on an HD channel, and that is showing up as glitches in the avx-1 recordings? This has been one cause that I have suggested for a long time. How did you "prove" this, since most folks want to instantly blame the avx-1.

Dave

Lon- Yes, in the case of the JVC- you have that option to establish AVX operation just prior to record time. No problem with the JVC. I fully understand that.

Judd- You appear to have a setup that does establish connection and keeps it operational for days at a time. Try to observe your highest "runsec =" count on the AVX monitor and let me know what that achieves.

The unfortunate part of conducting this test is that one must keep the DTC-100 and it's channel selection set for a long period of time, a condition that represents when you are away for a week with everything running (and CONNECTED) which is not the case with Lon's system since his runsec probably resets each time he channels up/down in the timer operation for the JVC. Lon- If I am to believe you have maintained connection for at least a week (something I have not been able to do) then you should be observing a run second count of in excess of runsec = 604800 and counting. If it is much less than that, then you have performed a reset of the counter during your record initialization sequence. If your counter is in excess of 600,000 then I have some troubleshooting to do on my end to determine why my system shuts down or times out in a few days of connection.

Don:

Let me clarify for the record.

I have not used the channel up channel down record method since new software B3.

On only 2 occasions has the AVX1 gone into the weeds, I have left the AVX1 and JVC30k connected full time since b3 software, though I have done channel changes since that time. And lastly the 2 times the AVX1 went into the weeds I needed to reset it.

I went away for Easter break for a period of 5 days and the AVX1 stayed in sync.

Lon

Originally posted by h2ofun
Don, am I hearing you correctly. You have determined you have a weak signal on an HD channel, and that is showing up as glitches in the avx-1 recordings? This has been one cause that I have suggested for a long time. How did you "prove" this, since most folks want to instantly blame the avx-1.

Dave

I have a perfect signal. AVX-1 never stops working however I still get the micro glitches as does everyone else.

"I have not used the channel up channel down record method since new software B3.

On only 2 occasions has the AVX1 gone into the weeds, I have left the AVX1 and JVC30k connected full time since b3 software, though I have done channel changes since that time. And lastly the 2 times the AVX1 went into the weeds I needed to reset it.

I went away for Easter break for a period of 5 days and the AVX1 stayed in sync.

Lon"


Lon- good info- now go to your AVX monitor and tell me what the runsec count is now or as soon as you can read it. That should give me a clue as to when your AVX last reset. If you are over a million seconds then I know I may have a mits limitation in this that I thought was strictly an AVX limit.


One more thing- The runsec counter resets when the channel is changed.

Jeff, it seems there may be two type of glitches. The micro, which sounds like the avx-1 needs some more tuning for. But, then it sounds like some are having a little longer glitches. These are the ones I dont hear everyone having, which is where I am suggesting may, may be signal quality as Don is saying.

Dave

I have both types of glitches.

Dave- I agree. It seems to me that the longer glitches, in my caes, were from a momentary interruption in signal integrity with my often problematic sat C. I have yet to confirm these were due to the AVX. The micro glitches 3-4 per 90 minute movie I see is confirmed as the AVX.

Don, great, since we want to make sure 169time is looking at "their" issue, and not "solution" issues.

Dave

Well I watched the Heart concert the other day while recording.

Played back the tape that night ( had company)great concert.
I had one big glitch and 3 small ones. Non were in the broadcast.
These are recorded to tape and unfortunately not caused by the VCR during playback:(

I dont mean to be rude here, I appreciate the AVX. Its better than nothing but I think enough people have been documenting these glitches sense the software release.
I have had numerous private conversations with a few on the forum off line more technical than myself who have proved its the AVX.

Its now been a few months and there is still skepticism toward if its the AVX.
It is the AVX.
It could have been fixed by now.

I would rather see the product optimized instead of time spent working on expanding its capability.
I would also love to get my Dish 6000 fitted with the 169 mod but please fix the product first:)

Please understand my frustration is because I love the product.
Its a love hate relationship:)

Alan, Richard is working on it. But, this doesnt just magically get fixed.
Clear root cause has to be developed. Then testing.

Was with going from B2 to B3, it takes longer than anyone of us want.
I am not trying to say this is correct, but its just the way it is. I no longer "Bug" RIchard because that doesnt get anywhere. It again goes back to if and when someone else has a better solution that 169time, I guess one is free to buy it. The 30K has issues, and people are still buying.
The samsung has issues, and people are still buying. The avx-1 has issues, and people are still buying. None of this stuff is "perfect". And I assume all companies are working as hard as they can to improve stuff, 169time included. Alan, is this being honest? I talked to Todd yesterday and told him 169time is in a new position. When it was just early adopters, we are all pretty happy with anything since its usually the only thing that does something. I see 169time now getting non early adopters buying who have a different level op expectations. Thats the good and the bad.

Bottom line, I continue to talk to Richard about this and hope the next update will be much sooner than the last!!!

Dave

Bottom line, I continue to talk to Richard about this and hope the next update will be much sooner than the last!!!
_______________________________________________________

:)

Dave- Would it help if I could document an actual test that confirms the long glitch is or is not caused by the AVX? This would be a targeted test that would not be just casual observation. In other words, one like what Alan did where he was sure that the long glitches were not present in the original and were in the recording. So far all I can say is that with my usage, the AVX can not be said to be definitly at fault with the long glitch. More targeted testing could prove it is, however.

Anything that Richard can reproduce that is caused by 169time is great, then we can focus him on fixing. This has been done by folks on other issues within the 169time solution that they can control.

So yep, the more help we can provide 169time the greater the chance of success.

This is why I posted a requested about help with the JVC stuff that the PC folks may have learned. Each machine needs to be treated differently.
So, the more info we can share, the more stable 169time can try and make their stuff.

Thanks in advance again for the help!!

Dave

Originally posted by Don Landis
[i]"I have not used the channel up channel down record method since new software B3.



Lon- good info- now go to your AVX monitor and tell me what the runsec count is now or as soon as you can read it. That should give me a clue as to when your AVX last reset. If you are over a million seconds then I know I may have a mits limitation in this that I thought was strictly an AVX limit.


One more thing- The runsec counter resets when the channel is changed.


Don:

Unfortunately the channel was changed this morning for recording, so the runsec counter reset.

Can we define exactly what glitches are, what they look like, and for how long they last?

On most of my recordings with B3 software I don't have any glitches, what I do get are between 1-3 episodes where the picture freezes for about 1-3 seconds with audio loss, or would that be considered a glitch?


Lon

Originally posted by h2ofun
Jeff, it seems there may be two type of glitches. The micro, which sounds like the avx-1 needs some more tuning for. But, then it sounds like some are having a little longer glitches. These are the ones I dont hear everyone having, which is where I am suggesting may, may be signal quality as Don is saying.

Dave

I agree. I think the long (over 1 second) video freeze is another problem. It could be the tape/deck or the signal.

Dave:
Did you see Lezek's comment on "ugly muxer" devices?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=263766

Could that explain the occasional freezes/stutters/glitches that people see?

I recorded the movie Resident Evil last night on HBO and experienced two short 1-3 second freezes. This was similar to my Spiderman recording. I was actually able to see these while monitoring the recording through the Component video output of the JVC DVHS 30K unit. I believe there is a dropout in data coming from the AVX-1 across the firewire input to the JVC. These occurred early on in the movie say within the first 45 minutes or less.

Originally posted by Raiders161
I recorded the movie Resident Evil last night on HBO and experienced two short 1-3 second freezes. This was similar to my Spiderman recording. I was actually able to see these while monitoring the recording through the Component video output of the JVC DVHS 30K unit. I believe there is a dropout in data coming from the AVX-1 across the firewire input to the JVC. These occurred early on in the movie say within the first 45 minutes or less.

LA:

Thanks for confirming what I have been experiencing with the B3 software, if we can somehow get rid of the 1-3 second freezes, we will be home free.

Lon

fyi

Good, Bad, and Ugly. Is it better to be called ugly or bad? I have heard
some people say the external case design of the AVX1 is cute, and others
less complimentary.

Okay, so the muxer has to have larger buffers, timing, management, and even
some amount of estimation to
get called a "good muxer."

Thanks Leszek

fyi

dave

Dave,

As you pointed out many times, this is not easy. :)

Good muxers (such as Manzanita or Carver) start at $800 and go up from there for software only. AVX1 is a software and hardware solution at a cheaper price, so it is still very impressive.

Leszek

Leszek, just got off the phone with Richard. He says thanks for all the input and help. He continues to think and try things and still things he can make another step forward on improving the avx-1 s/w. But until its ready.
Looks like he may be getting closer to supporting some of the other Direct TV STB's. He continues to have lots of things all going on at one time. One can on focus on one thing for so long before the brain overloads. I still think a few seconds of glitches I can live with compared to nothing. But, as an early adopter on this kind of stuff, I understand perfection means one waits and waits and waits.

Dave

Glad to hear Richard is working on it.

Last night I ordered Minority Report from Directv and made my first recording with the JVC deck. There were two long audio dropouts that I noted when I watched the movie and when I played back the tape.

The movie was broadcast in Dolby Digital but NOT in 5.1! Rats!

The first was about an hour into the movie and lasted about 61 seconds, the second was about 1:45 into the movie and lasted about 45 seconds. Unfortunately both dropouts came at bad times during the movie as the main character was talking in intense scenes.

I plan to create a new thread detailing my 169time experiences so far. I will also try to use DVHSTool to see if the recording can be played back using my HTPC.

So I dont understand. If you are saying you watched it live, and it had two long audio drop outs, and then the tape had the same thing, what else would you have expected? What you see (or hear) is what you get?

Dave

I've been watching DirecTV for over two years now and have never had the problem of video without audio. However this 169time Proscan sat box does have its quirks!

When I recorded the movie, I watched and listened to the feed from my JVC deck - NOT from the sat box. My understanding is that that DirecTV data goes:

sat box -> AVX-1 -> JVC deck

This would mean that I was watching / listening to a signal that was processed by the AVX-1 and the JVC.

Now the audio dropout could have been in the source itself or it could have been a problem with any of the machines involved. If I had been listening to audio out from the sat box alone I would have been able to tell if the problem was from the source / sat box.

h2ofun: I have made a few postings detailing my initial experience with the 169time product and you seem very defensive about it. Are you involved with the company?

Just make sure you post your facts. If you can prove a conclusion, great.
Help us make the product better.

Dave

fyi
Hi,

Our recording adapter system does indeed output the exact same quality
digital signal on the firewire that is received by the set top box.

The DVI signal could be exactly derived from the firewire signal. Firewire
and DVI are equal as far as quality, but it is the firewire based signal
that is suitable for use with our recording adapters.

You mentioned "recompression" by the deck. This is something that deck
might do with firewire signals that originated from a miniDV camcorder, or
with copy protected HDTV tape sources. However, when used with HDTV sources
that originate from received broadcasts and output onto the firewire by our
recording adapters, I do not believe that the deck perfroms any
recompression of the signal.

One item that needs explanation is that even though TVs and computers may
each have a firewire port, this does not imply that these device can
electronically talk to each other. In fact, unless the devices are exactly
and particularly intended to interoperate, they will probably not
interoperate.

We are not currently specifying that our product interoperates with display
devices such as the Mitsubishi TV via firewire.

Currently there is a way to use the firewire output from the recording
adapter we sell for the DTC100 with a PC when used with reception of a
terrestrial OTA H/DTV signal. This is discussed on our web page. This is
when the AVX1 is not selected. That is, the PC has selected the DTC100's
firewire as the input source.

Our AVX1 product that is needed for most satellte HDTV deck based recording
does not currently support this same type of interoperation with PCs. Thus,
signals that originate from a satellite source cannot currently be used
directly with a PC. Even though the signal is put out on the firewire, the
PC doesn't understand what to do with it.

There is a work around where the satellite HDTV signal can first be recorded
to tape, and then imported to the PC.

We are planning to update to the AVX1 software to allow it to interoperate
with a PC. In much the same way as the AVX1 currently makes the satellite
HDTV signal compatible with the deck, that update will permit the AVX1 to
make the satellite HDTV signal compatible with a PC, which it currently is
not. When this update is officially announced and shipping, it would then
be possible to send the satellite originating HDTV signal to the PC for
storage, retreival, and playback.

Viewing of the signal on the PC is being facilitated by products from other
vendors. If a compatible firewire HDTV signal was provided to the PC, this
should be sufficient to allow a PC based hardware or software HDTV decoder
(provided by others) to display the signal on the PC. It is not desirable
to use DVI for this. DVI is particularly only suited for use with display
devices.

Although the end result of what a PC does also goes to a display device, the
PC is not itself a display device. It is the monitor that is a display
device. In the instance of a notebook computer where the display is
integrated into the hardware and a direct input is probably not provided, it
might still be possible to display HDTV input from firewire, storage, or
communication based sources. Doing this this would depend on PC hardware
and software that is currently outside the realm of what our company
supports, though other companies might support this.

I think this information will help to convey what our system currently
supports and why this is not currently meeting your needs.

fyi

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
We are planning to update to the AVX1 software to allow it to interoperate
with a PC. In much the same way as the AVX1 currently makes the satellite
HDTV signal compatible with the deck, that update will permit the AVX1 to
make the satellite HDTV signal compatible with a PC, which it currently is
not. When this update is officially announced and shipping, it would then
be possible to send the satellite originating HDTV signal to the PC for
storage, retreival, and playback.
That is great news.

Viewing of the signal on the PC is being facilitated by products from other
vendors. If a compatible firewire HDTV signal was provided to the PC, this
should be sufficient to allow a PC based hardware or software HDTV decoder
(provided by others) to display the signal on the PC. It is not desirable
to use DVI for this. DVI is particularly only suited for use with display
devices.
I think this wording might be confusing to some (or just me), but just wanted to make sure that it was clear that DVI can still be an advantage after the recording. For those with DVI displays, once he gets recordings to work from a PC going DVI from your video card might still give the best picture.

--Darin

Yep, will see.

So, I am building up my 2.4 ghz computer now so I can get the tools ready to try the avx-1 out when richard is ready for me to test.

So, if anyone wants to help guide me as to what test setup is the best for me to try out before the avx-1 pc upgrade ships, let me know.

Dave

I have been playing this rainy afternoon with the following: my 169time recorded Minority Report DVHS tape, DVHSTool, my Shuttle HTPC hooked up to the DVI port of my JVC G150 DILA projector, Videolan media player, my PC-DTV HD recording card and the Elecard MPEG2 player.

I brought some video from the tape to my PC using DVHSTool. The PC-DTV card ca play these files but the ideo and audio plays back badly - lots of dropouts, green screens at times and sometimes just nothing displayed or heard.

Videolan can play these files and puts out the sound BUT when it gets to the end of a file it encounters some kind of error and the program crashes.

Elecard can play the files but the sound volume is very low for some reason.

I used the "Info" button in Elecard and found out something interesting:

normally an HDTV file is 1920 x 1080 with a bit rate of 18,000,000, the files from the tape are reported as 1920 x 1088 with a bit rate of 45,000,000

I wonder if there is some kind of extra info in the data from the AVX-1 recording or if there is some error in the bit stream that the AVX-1 or the JVC is sending to DVJSTool.

The DVI image looks good but I think I'll stick with the normal component output from my JVC deck to the projector.

OK. I took a 169time recording from a DVHS tape and Windows Media Player could not play back the transport stream file. I then used HTVToMPEG2 1.09 beta and converted the ts file into an mpeg2 file. Now the Win Media Player plays it back perfectly and it looks great AND sounds great!

This software combo can be used to store / playback the 169time recordings on an HTPC.

I am curious to see how well the Windows Media Encoder can compress / encode these files. It would be great to be able to store / play back a movie in "near HD" resolution on one DVD. I know that there has been a lot of discussion about using the Media Encoder to do this. I don't have a DVD burner to play with but I may try it anyway.

You CANT use the avx-1 directly with DVHStool. The only way to do it today is record the avx-1 to the jvc. and then use dvhstools to import from the jvc deck

dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
So, if anyone wants to help guide me as to what test setup is the best for me to try out before the avx-1 pc upgrade ships, let me know.
I have a few suggested options for playback of avx-1 transport stream files that have been captured to a PC hard drive.

1) Software playback from the PC hard drive through the DTC-100/169time decoder (by firewire). I'm not sure which application is best suited for this purpose, MyHD or DVHSTool, I would guess.

2) HDTV PC tuner card playback from the hard drive with either the MyHD, Hipix, Access DTV, or HiDTV cards.

3) Software playback through the PC video card with DVHSTool, Zoomplayer or the Fusion software. I'm sure that there are other software playback options, but these are the ones I am familiar with.

I would be satisfied with reliable playback through the DTC-100 decoder, because I suspect that it is more robust than any other decoders, but the greater the compatibility the better, IMO.

Originally posted by bwooster

I used the "Info" button in Elecard and found out something interesting:

normally an HDTV file is 1920 x 1080 with a bit rate of 18,000,000, the files from the tape are reported as 1920 x 1088 with a bit rate of 45,000,000


The datarate you see there is just an "encoder hint" (comment). The actual datarate is different. Since 45Mbps is a common rate for "Mezzanine level" compression, you often see that value on streams even if they are less. My guess it is the "default" setting unless some encoder tech goes to the trouble of putting the actual value in there.

To know the real datarate, one actually has to measure bits in the stream.

I think DTV/HBO used to report as 1920x1080 14.25Mbit/sec, but recently changed to 1920x1088 45Mbit/sec. I think this coincides with them re-encoding the signal (rather than passing it through) so they can feed it into their new stat-mux equipment to cram more channels into the less transponders.

H2ofun/Dave - you should pull across some 169time recordings to your new HTPC and make sure that you can get them to play properly using DVHStool with Elecard filters. See if you can get SPDIF audio to work on DD5.1 programs. Once that works then you are ready for the next step (when the AVX1 will talk to the PC directly).

You may also want to try connecting the PC directly to the DTC100/HDVR and see if you can get live OTA shows to play through the PC/DVHStool.

stjr - it is pretty well known that the Janus based PC cards (MyHD, HiPix, etc) will NOT play back 169time recordings properly. They stutter badly. Leszek1 speculates that this is because of "poorly buffered muxing". Perhaps a future AVX1 release could make things more flexible. At least we have a bunch of other choices (JVC decoder, DTC100 decoder, Dish 6000 decoder, Elecard PC filters, etc).

PVR - I just wanted to put out a "wish list" of possible playback options. At the present time, I only have the Janus based decoders available to me until I either purchase the other decoders and/or upgrade my PC's to permit smooth software playback.

I have read your posts regarding your success playing back avx-1 files with DVHSTool and Elecard filters, and it sounds very encouraging.

PVR, thats what my first step will be. Just about have all the s/w loaded.
I am going to pull JVC recordings to the PC with DVHStool.

Is there something special I need to do when you say "DVHStool with Elecard filters?"

Also, in order to try SPDIF audio, this assume I have an audio card that will do this? If so, dont have one in this computer other than the std onboard audio.

Dave

If one does need a seperate audio card, what are folks using?

I have been happy with my Turtle beach santa cruz, but havent bought a new card for a while.

Dave

I wrestled with onboard Cmedia, but eventually got it working. You should read the DVHStool topic for more ideas.

DVHStool doesn't come with any "playback" filters. It is dependent on you having pre-installed a DVD package, or set of filters from Cyberlink, Sonic/Ravisent, Intervideo (WinDVD) or Elecard.

Once you D/L install the Elecard filters they should be available in the video decoder configuration dialog box in DVHStool. You can click on the option/configure box, and set them for deinterlace, but with no post-process.

I ended up using the "Reclock audio filter" and the "AC3filter" demuxer. You may want to experiment. Reclock is a neat thing, but it may cause cause audio sync problems when playing from tape.

DVHStool is getting pretty good, but it still a work in progress.

stjr - You can use your HTPC with free software from Microsoft to play back the files from a DVHS tape.

1) Use DVHSTool to "restore" a file from a tape
2) Use HDTVToMPEG2 to convert the files from transport streams into MPEG2 files
3) Use Windows Media Player to play the files

I have not had good luck getting WMP to play full res (1920x1080) HDTV MPEG2 files.

Playing within DVHStool works much better for me.

bwooster - I have already tried Zoomplayer, DVHSTool, and Fusion to play back my Hipix and MyHD files. My 1Ghz speed PC's are not fast enough for smooth playback. I don't expect that WMP will be the answer for me. I need more speed. (I don't own a DVHS deck).

The other issue for HDTV software playback IMO is 1080i resolution from the video card. The latest Radeon Catalyst 3.4 drivers allow 1080i playback of 1080i transport streams, but I'm not sure that the overlay can display all the detail properly. I need 1080i for my RPTV.

Without going too far OT, I think that getting the avx-1 captured files to play through the DTC-100 decoder is the best compromise for people that need 1080i playback. Although I am far from an expert, my guess is that this method could work without requiring too much additional tweaking of avx-1 software or a user's HTPC hardware.

Originally posted by stjr
Without going too far OT, I think that getting the avx-1 captured files to play through the DTC-100 decoder is the best compromise for people that need 1080i playback. Although I am far from an expert, my guess is that this method could work without requiring too much additional tweaking of avx-1 software or a user's HTPC hardware.
Steve,

These files will already play back through the DTC-100 just by recording them to tape and then running firewire through the DTC-100. No PC is needed. Many of us want the PC solution because of the advantages of doing the deinterlacing and scaling there.

--Darin

Okay, I need some help.

I have my PC up and going. I have a turtle beach audio card that I have setup for SPDIF output. I have loaded Theatertek s/w which gives me the sonic stuff. I also loaded elecard filters.

So, I used dvhstool and got a file from my JVC. If I go into graph edit, it plays the clip just fine with ac3 showing up on my receiver. (So I assume SPDIF is working correctly.)

But when I try to play the clip via DVHStool clip preview, all I get is an error saying failed to setup correctly. I have the decoders the same that my graph edit has setup.

Any ideas how I can get DVSHTools to not give me this error?

I assume once I get this going, then waiting for the avx-1 update is all I need to try?

Dave

Dave,

Have you tried selecting different decoders under the "D-VHS" - "Settings" menu to see if one set of filters might work better than another?

Originally posted by darinp
These files will already play back through the DTC-100 just by recording them to tape and then running firewire through the DTC-100. No PC is needed. Many of us want the PC solution because of the advantages of doing the deinterlacing and scaling there.I understand that many people desire deinterlacing and scaling. I would be satisfied with 1080i playback if I could get a reliable PC archive of the recordings with full error correction. That would enable me to transfer my recordings to DDS tape, DVD-R or (hopefully soon) Blu-Ray disks, so that I won't run out of storage space in my home as could easily happen with D-VHS tapes.

Ideally, I would like to all the options on my "wish list" above to work. That way, when I am ready to upgrade my RPTV display, I'll feel confident that the deinterlacing and scaling options would be available.

Originally posted by h2ofun

But when I try to play the clip via DVHStool clip preview, all I get is an error saying failed to setup correctly. I have the decoders the same that my graph edit has setup.

Any ideas how I can get DVSHTools to not give me this error?


You should post this question in the DVHStool topic. Typically Rick will ask you to check the "create debug file" option (in DVHStool), and then send him a copy of the dvhstool2.txt file so that he can tell you why your system isn't working.

I have tried all the different changes under docoders, and I only get the error, things arent set up.

I will see if I can make this debug file.

Dave

169time.com wants to hear from you. If you have a Set Top Box that is not
currently supported by 169time, send them an email voting for your box.
They will listen. The STB that gets the most votes will have priority in
their development process and get done first.

fyi

Dave

Hello Dave H20fun.

I'm hoping Richard is working a yet another upgrade to the AVX1 software
to get rid of those occasional 3-5 seconds a few times during a course of recording. I'm talking about the version 3 one.

Has he been hearing the feedback of this?
I've been reading about coming out with a PC avx software,so that's why I
wanted to know if the occasional 3-5 second mentioned above shoulod be addressed first.

IT"S SO CLOSE TO BEING PERFECT

Originally posted by yrral
Hello Dave H20fun.

I'm hoping Richard is working a yet another upgrade to the AVX1 software
to get rid of those occasional 3-5 seconds a few times during a course of recording. I'm talking about the version 3 one.

Has he been hearing the feedback of this?
I've been reading about coming out with a PC avx software,so that's why I
wanted to know if the occasional 3-5 second mentioned above shoulod be addressed first.

IT"S SO CLOSE TO BEING PERFECT
yrral,

It is possible that they are related. I'm not saying they are, but it is possible with the buffer size issue found. I like the fact that he is looking at making these files playback with more systems. Maybe that will make them playback better on our 30ks, also.

As a software engineer I know that sometimes there is only so much looking at one problem that I can do. There are times when it makes sense to go away and work on a different issue and then come back to it at a later date. I often find that I stumble across things that will help with some outstanding issues, while I am working on something seemingly unrelated.

--Darin

They are 100% related, but yes, Richard is hearing ALL the feedback.
Meaning, if he can improve, it improves for all. But he still works on other new products since some technical issues take a while to figure out, and just working on one issue doesnt fix it.

Keep writing or calling 169time if you want to make sure he is hearing, seeing the feedback.

Dave

fyi

Today I've been looking at the DirecTV channel 509 and I am seeing audio
dropouts on the DirecTV box HBO channel. This is not caused by the 169
product. It is in the signal seen at the STB's output. The effect would be
that the 169 box would record the dropout too. These dropouts are not seen
with simultaneous viewing on the HDD200 4DTV or Dish6K. It appears to be a
DirecTV problem. People should complain to DirecTV.

fyi

dave

Dave, This has been happening for some time now on Showtime HD. Consequently, I have shelved all testing until I can be certain there aren't issues with the signal. As you know I don't get HBO HD on DirecTV so I can't determine what's happening there. All my HDNet recordings made under new b3 have been free of any long glitches, just the quick ones.
The only long ones I have recorded were fromm Showtime and I have not been able to say for sure those were not in the original signal inbound.

Also, noted is that HBO HD has had some audio dropouts on their DishNetwork channel so with them, it may be an HBO source issue affecting both DirecTV and DishNetwork. I know this differs with your observation but that's what I have to report. I have seen for the past week, audio dropouts on HBO HD on Dishnetwork.

Don, all these data points say it one should not be quick to jump to a conclusion as to where an issue may be coming from.

The avx-1 still has some work to be done, but other sources do also.

Dave

HBO has had a audio drop out issue the past 2 weeks. Its been documented.

About 3 per movie. A lot of people have emailed them and complained. We will see how long it takes for them to fix it. Ken H said he will be talking to them directly and see whats up.

Do not confuse this with the audio glitches from the AVX. They are both real and seperate.
Hopefully a fix from both soon :)

Hopefull

Another interesting input from a customer of 169time. Again, garbage in, garbage out.

Hello I am writin this to let you know I used to experience glitches in the
recording which would botch the remainder of the recording with version
0.8b2.

When I got version 0.8b3 I still had glitches but this version would recover
and resync the signal and not botch up the rest of my recording. However I
still received glitches quite often.

I called a Direct TV installer to see if there was anything with my setup
that was causing it, and at the suggestion of the technichian when he came
over, he said to use a surge protector with the cable in/out ports that
would ground my satellite signal.

I did this today, and even with the older version 0.8b2 I am not receiving
any glitches whatsoever!

I am telling you this valuable bit of information so that if you have any
customers calling with recording glitch problems, tell them to use a surge
protector with the cable in/out ports to ground the satellite signal!

I am using the RCA DTC 100 and AVX-1 setup. Again, even with the older 0.8b2
software I am not getting any glitches and I got them very often before.
It's because of the cable surge protector grounding my satellite signal, it
made all the difference in the world!




Dave

Still looking for help with my ATI Radeon Ve card on my PC. So far, no help on any of the forums. I cant seem to figure out how to enable the dvi as a second monitor, and then config it such that I can drive my HD display. This would allow me to try and display the video I move from the avx-1 to JVC to my PC.

Thanks Again

dave

The kind of Surge suppressor with the ground wire or more like the ones you use to get rid of a ground loop without the wire?

Originally posted by h2ofun
You CANT use the avx-1 directly with DVHStool. The only way to do it today is record the avx-1 to the jvc. and then use dvhstools to import from the jvc deck

dave

Hi,
I have followed this forum for a while and thought that it's about time to give something back to the community:

h2ofun and whoever else is interested,- I have found a solution to record from satellite to PC / laptop without first recording it to tape and importing it back from the tape to PC. Here is the equipment I am using:
- DirecTV satellite equipment (Showtime/HBO HD)
- AVX1 plus the RCA 169-time receiver
- JVC 30K (which has the same problems as discussed in the forums)
- P4 2.8 GHZ Laptop with an external mini harddrive

Here is the setup:
1. Connect the AVX1 with the RCA receiver
2. Connect the RCA receiver with the back firewire port of the JVC deck
3. Boot the AVX1 disk and turn on the RCA receiver (tune to desired channel, e.g. HBO HD)
4. On your laptop (or PC) you need to run WinXP and install both the JVC tape driver and the TSPCAP filter (that is actually also used by DVHS tool)
5. Once everything is booted and installed connect your laptop (or PC) with the front firewire port of the JVC.
6. On the JVC select the I-number that corresponds to AVX1 (it might require some channel up and town switching, - no more than the usual problems when trying to record to tape)
7. Once you've got the correct I-number, the PC/Laptop should recognize the tape drive / activate MSTape driver (you notice this by the fact that (on the JVC) the display indicates "HS" rather than "STD").
8. Load DVHS-Tool and just select in which file format and what file size you want to capture the transport streams (I usually take 1024 MB)
9. Close DVHS-Tool and open Graphedit
10. Build the following Graph/insert directShow filter:
a) Videocapture Source: MS Tape drive
b) TSPCAP (indicate the filename and location where you want to save the streams)
c) Connect MS Tape with TSPCAP
d) Click the black play button
e) Wait until movie has finished, then click the stop button
11. You should now have all tp files on your disk. The JVC did not record anything but was only used as a I-number switcher.
12. Encode, play, enjoy

This process takes away several sources of potential problems associated with taping and reimporting. I have almost no glitches anymore, and if so, they can be tracked back to the incoming signal. I am using the new AVX1 firmware, which is a major improvement in this process as well.

That's it for now.
HD3D (High Def 3D Video)

Where can I download Graphedit and TSPCAP from?

Thanks for any help.

HD3D:

Thats great news, I will try this tonight! a few questions:

1) i see you use 1GB stream files. Have you found this size to work better than others, or just personal preference?

2) regarding your #12, "Encode", what are you encoding? Are you doing TS to MPEG encoding? Have you tried to just playback the TS files through a HD card like MyHD?

Thanks!

What does almost no glitches mean ?

How many per movie and how big.
Are they audio, video or both?

Thank you:)

wbooster.

goto Microsoft and search for directx sdk graphedit is in that download, and to get the other filter download and install the latest version of dvhstools then you will have access to it via graphedit.. sorry I don't have time to dig up the urls.. maybe someone else will post them. The download link for dvhstools is in teh dvhtsools official thread at teh top of this forum

For anyone using graphedit, are you using DirectX 8.x version, or 9.0 version? My HTPC is DirectX 9.0 installed, and want to make sure that version will work or if I should back down to 8.x?

i have used graphedit from 8.1b sdk with directx9 runtime installed on my system. guess i should get 9 versions of graphedit tho

Cool, will have to try also.

Dave

Originally posted by bwooster
Where can I download Graphedit and TSPCAP from?

Thanks for any help.

You can get Graphedit from Microsoft (sdk kit)
Get TSPCAP here:
http://www.webtc.com/DVHS/default.htm

But don't open the VCR control panel as illustrated on the site. Just hit the play button on the main window

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
HD3D:

Thats great news, I will try this tonight! a few questions:

1) i see you use 1GB stream files. Have you found this size to work better than others, or just personal preference?

2) regarding your #12, "Encode", what are you encoding? Are you doing TS to MPEG encoding? Have you tried to just playback the TS files through a HD card like MyHD?

Thanks!

1) All file sizes (including single file) should work. I use 1GB, because, if you want to edit certain portions you don't have to deal with a single large file

2) I use WM9 for interlaced NTSC (WM9 is very good @ inverse telecining)
For film I use Divx 5 or Xvid @ 0.20 bits per pixel, which gives you a pretty good quality. ( I typically downsize to 720p, because my projector is XGA and cannot display higher resolutions anyway; so normally 2-3 movies fit on one DVD)

HD3D

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
What does almost no glitches mean ?

How many per movie and how big.
Are they audio, video or both?

Thank you:)

Almost means that I sometimes have no glitches at all and sometimes I may have 2-4 video pixelations lasting approximately 5 frames or so; occasionally I might also get 1-2 audio desyncs that may last 1-4 seconds

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
For anyone using graphedit, are you using DirectX 8.x version, or 9.0 version? My HTPC is DirectX 9.0 installed, and want to make sure that version will work or if I should back down to 8.x?


Both versions should be fine. I would still go for the latest version unless you have a compatibility problem.

HD3D

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
Have you tried to just playback the TS files through a HD card like MyHD? HD3D - Like Kirby Baker, I am interested in straight playback of captured avx-1 files through the popular mpeg2 decoders. Is there any chance that you could attempt straight playback of the .tp files through the various decoders (i.e., the DTC-100, MyHD, or any of the software decoders) and report your results?

What I really wish was there was a AV/C Monitor driver out there somewhere, because my HTPC detects my Mitsu HDTV, but with no driver, I cant stream files direct to the TV's firewire port. With a driver, life would be grand!! Anyone want to write a driver for me? :)

fyi

Very ingenuitive.

Record from the AVX1 without going through the deck.

Grab the transport stream on the way to the deck.

This is similar to the way Gridleak was able to record from the AVX1 to the
legacy Panasonic PV-HD1000 even though 169time didn't directly provide for
that.

The problem with this is that the JVC deck is still required. I.e. you have
to purchase it if you don't already have it. 169time does plan to support
a method to record directly to the PC from the AVX1 without the deck being
needed, and in the very near future.

Dave

The good thing about using the JVC deck IMHO is that you can monitor the recording to see if it is working properly.

169time does plan to support
a method to record directly to the PC from the AVX1 without the deck being
needed, and in the very near future.
___________________________________

Dave this is good news but I also hope they are working on improving the
drop outs.
We get no word on that but yet seams all efforts and time are going into expanding the compatibility of the unit.

Can you give us an update if anything time at all is being spent on fixing the problems we are experiencing. That would be encouraging.

Thanks!

Alan, over the years I have learned that Richard works on many many things at one time, both physically and mentally. There are some issues that take a long time to work out by going back and forth. Trust me, he clearly understands the need to make the avx-1 as good as possible for his ability to have food on the table. I bug him about this all the time. But, as with any techincal issue, some take a long time to come up with a solution, try them out, redue, try it out, etc. So, I know he is doing as much of this as can be done. Testing of stuff takes a long time w/o any interaction.

So Alan, have I explained the process of what it takes to actually fix, verify and then release a fix, and how long it takes?

Dave

Well Dave all we hear about is how he is working on getting it to work with a PC or other gear and we hear nothing about any work being done on getting the AVX to work as expected so thats what I find frustrating.
I personally do not want to hear about any other products added to the line. Stop working on everything and fix the AVX. Then move forward. Now you got something.
I hope we are not hearing this same story 6 months from now. Its already been months.

Alan, if you want to complain, you have to go to Richard. As you know, I dont work for the company. If one doesnt like what they have, 169time I assume will give your money back. They are doing the best they can.
If customers dont buy product, I guess he worked on the wrong stuff.
What else can I say. I have learned to live with we are on the bleeding edge of technology, and its not perfect. I can live with this. Sorry, I am a techo nerd.

Dave

For someone who does not work for the company you do a great job marketing the product.
I would hire you if I were Richard.

All Im saying is someone ether you or Richard please post something once in awhile to let us know the dropouts are being worked on and there will be a fix.
If other areas of progress are more important (and thats how it looks from here) than let us know so in 6 months from now when there are still no updates to fix the problem and you are still feeding us excuses or cover ups I wont be so let down.

I like this product and thats why Im venting. I offered to loan equipment and nothing came of that.
One of the members pointed out something that could be improved and of course nothing has been done to fix that other than we keep reading new posts the AVX now works with more boxes with more to come.
What are we to think?
Yes I am frustrated. I would like to see it perfected and not go down in history as one of those great ideas that could have been something had they got it to work properly.

Your 96% there. I hope theres light at the end of the tunnel:)

There is no equipment RIchard needs for this. The last update took 9 months.

Just because someone says something can be improved, easier said than done. What did someone say? I told Richard about the buffer comment and he said someone should be able to that the stream and clean it up if they had the skills.

There are lots of stuff in the product because of inputs here. I pass stuff to RIchard ALL the time. How do you think I get the FYI posts? The screen counter was Rogers idea as just one example.

I have learned on this road, one has to be patient. Look at how long it took us to get a "fix" out of JVC. 6 months? ANd they are a BIG company.
169time has 1 technical guy.

So Alan, all I can say is I get more from Richard with honey, than gasoline.
Its him or nothing, so I just go with the flow. Thats how he works.

Hes working on it. I keep posting this. What else can I say? Until its ready for another update, its not, and there is nothing in between.

So for the Nth time, the drop outs ARE being worked on. But so are other things all at the same time. Thats just the way it works.

I do this filtering so Richard can stay as focused as possible. And yes, he is hoping I get laid off my job so I will go work for 169time.

Marketing, I am terrible. I am just an honest engineer who sticks up for a product and person I believe in. Hasnt changed from the days WireheadRick was attacking me. (Its sure nice it doesnt happen as often)

And for an FYI, Steve, thanks for the help on the phone with the powerstrip. I was able to dump 1800 by 960i to my display with graph edit. So, am ready to try the new avx-1 code hopefully soon. And yes, I havent asked, but am hoping RIchard has found a way to tweak the glitch stuff at the same time!!

Richard did say he hasnt gotten any inputs about what STB should be worked on next. So, we continue to ask for inputs.

Dave

Originally posted by stjr
HD3D - Like Kirby Baker, I am interested in straight playback of captured avx-1 files through the popular mpeg2 decoders. Is there any chance that you could attempt straight playback of the .tp files through the various decoders (i.e., the DTC-100, MyHD, or any of the software decoders) and report your results?

stjr & Kirby,
the tp/trp or ts files can easily be played through MyHD. (I don't know about Hipix, but I assume it would work as well). For playing the streams back through the DTC-100 you would need a player (such as DVHStool). It should work but I have not tried yet.

HD3D

Dave,

I have been in communication with Richard; I've volunteered my Samsung STB for him to look at. He said he will contact me when he's ready to work on it. He knows the AVX-1 needs an upgrade to be compatible with more decoders (including the DTC-100, which has issues with Dish AVX-1 recordings). As 169Time begins to get into PC recording/playback solutions, it will be necessary to improve the AVX-1 so recordings made from it can play back through the hardware-based HDTV decoder cards.

-Dylan

Maybe or maybe not Dylan. There is only so many things that can be done.
So, its always the biggest bang for the buck. We are looking at just using the PC's horse power as a larger market. The HD PC cards are too much money!!! So, will see, step by step, seeing what the market does.
We have talked about the samsung. I dont see if giving much today. The next thing I would see is a cable STB if no one comes out with one doing what folks want it to do. 169time has direct tv, dish and C band. Doesnt make any sense to me to step much time on any STB that basically does the same thing the engineering has gone into. Again, will just see which way the market goes. Things need to be done that no one else can do.

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
The HD PC cards are too much money!!! I disagree. The very popular MyHD card is only $249. That's a drop in the bucket compared to all the other HD recording/playback gear. The nice thing about using using MyHD (or other HD cards) for playback is that they support component output natively and you don't have to mess with custom resolutions and/or Powerstrip.

I would definitely be interested in a 169time solution for my DTC100 if I could record and playback to/from my MyHD equipped PC. I am mainly interested in timeshifting HD Directv programming (mostly HBO/Showtime). I'm not that interested in building a tape library so I've been reluctant to purchase a DVHS deck.

Jay

Originally posted jerndl
I disagree. The very popular MyHD card is only $249. That's a drop in the bucket compared to all the other HD recording/playback gear. The nice thing about using using MyHD (or other HD cards) for playback is that they support component output natively and you don't have to mess with custom resolutions and/or Powerstrip. I agree with jerndl. If the avx-1 transport stream and/or captured files can be made compliant with all the mpeg2 decoders, including the MyHD card, that would be ideal. However, once the Dish 5000 modulator is turned off, I would be interested in purchasing the 169time/avx-1 product if I could be assured of glitch free or nearly glitch free playback through any decoder, even if the transport stream is not totally compliant with all decoders.

Originally posted by h2ofun
Alan, if you want to complain, you have to go to Richard. As you know, I dont work for the company. If one doesnt like what they have, 169time I assume will give your money back. They are doing the best they can.
If customers dont buy product, I guess he worked on the wrong stuff.
What else can I say. I have learned to live with we are on the bleeding edge of technology, and its not perfect. I can live with this. Sorry, I am a techo nerd.

Dave

Dave,

Are you saying Richard is obviously doing something right because the products are selling? I think the marketing is deceptive. There are known issues with the avx and not only is there no warning on the sales page that the product doesn't work 100% of the time, but there's a statement that says the sync problems mentioned in a popular publication has been corrected.

I already know your response... "well don't buy it then". I won't, but it's unfortunate because it's almost there. I had considered buying it on faith that the issues would be corrected, but as I browse this support thread, the re-occuring theme amounts to "we're the only game in town, if you don't it too bad. We're on the bleeding edge and you just have to accept that your product doesn't work as advertised. We're busy expanding our market and we'll get around to making your product work as advertised when we can, but since we already have your money, you're not a priority".

If anything, I have been way too honest with this group and should be posting NOTHING and just let folks be in the dark. A lot less effort for me since I get nothing for this except trying to help a few who think like me, very thankful having fun playing with this stuff. Its not like its life and death, but some sure .......



Dave

And again, and again, dont know how many times I can say it. RIchard is doing all he can to make the avx-1 perfect. Have many ways I can say this?

Dave

Originally posted by rabident
not only is there no warning on the sales page that the product doesn't work 100% of the time, but there's a statement that says the sync problems mentioned in a popular publication has been corrected.

My Sony laptop doesn't work 100% of the time, but I didn't see a warning on the Sony site about that. My cordless telephone acts up at times, there was no warning when I purchased that. My JVC deck occasionally acts up; again, no warning. My microwave has a tad bit more energy than it should. I missed the warning. My car sometimes makes squeeking noises that can get annoying. Volvo didn't warn me about that. Sometimes when I go to McDonalds, my Big Mac only has 1 pickle on it. No warning I would get stiffed on the pickles.

How often do you a buy a product and next to that good you see a sign that reads, "this product works 100% of the time"?

I and just got off the phone will Bill he would not give me a guarantee that the Windows OS will work 100% of the time, Now if Richards product worked like Bill's then I would say you have a problem.
h2ofun pay no attention to rabident, I think everyone here is behind Richard and what he is doing. There is no way that the big boys will come out with a product that Richard is putting out. Even the upcoming 921 will not have the capabilities that the 169 units will have.

X -

It's implied that what you buy will work as advertised. It's one thing if a bad unit slips through QA. It's another matter entirely if there's an inherent design flaw that effects every unit.

The question was asked and no one stepped up... has anyone been able to recorded a movie without glitches? You must see the difference there. 99% of the people that buy Volvo get a car that's 100% perfect while 0% of the people that record with the AVX get a 100% perfect recording.

The JVC decks had a high failure rate and they, rightfully so, received a lot of flak for it. Why are there so many excuses for the 169time products? They're both flawed products that have a lot of potential.

Pay no attention to Rabident? All I want is a product that works. I'm "behind him" 100%. Go Richard, go Richard.

I check this thread every day hoping the glitches get fixed so I can buy it. Same with the HD Leeza. The deceptiveness surrounding the company makes me a little uneasy and it's disappointing to hear nothing but excuses day after day, but I think it's only a matter of time before an HD recording solution comes out. Who it ends up being I don't really care, but I would prefer to get it from a company that had a track record of supporting their customers.

And this isn't your typical grass roots Open Source Linux project. Sure we're behind you, but for $1800 it better work.

If anybody has purchased a car that is 100% perfect, I would be shocked.

What it seems like Rabident is saying is, the car works 100% most of the time and the 169time products never work 100% (although this can be argued). It would be nice if they said that it doesn't work all the time on their website, but what company does that? I think their products are fine. I wouldn't buy it right now because of the bugs, but it's providing a lot of people with functionality they can not find anywhere else. I tip my hat to them.

Dave:

PLEASE........don't stop your posts!!

Ron

Ok. Lets all quit complaining and let a few months pass in hopes Richard can fix the glitches:)

Originally posted by XFactor
If anybody has purchased a car that is 100% perfect, I would be shocked.

Would you settle for a car that has a miss in the engine or one cylinder that has a glitch?

Want to make sure I didnt imply something incorrectly. 169times goal will be to make the product as compatable with as many things are time, resourses and technology allow. So, having the avx-1 work with HD PC cards is a goal. At this point, neither RIchard or I have one so we are working with what we have. Again, we are using fast cheap PC's as our first goal since this would be easy for anyone to get.

Dave

As much as I hate "car analogies" -- this one needs to be corrected. More on that in a moment...

People, it's not like the AVX-1 records perfectly 99 out of 100 times (or even 9 out of 10 times), and only shows a glitch occasonally. In that case, it would be an "imperfect" product (like so many others) and one that I and other "dissenting voices" in this thread could live with.

The AVX-1 fails (with on-screen glitches introduced by the unit itself) EACH AND EVERY TIME IT IS USED. That's 100% faliure in my book.

My HD recording setup (Dish 5000/Panny combo) shows the occasional glitch (likely introduced by the originating signal, but regardless) in about 1 out of 20 recordings I make. The rest are perfect. Still, my set of products, in a holistic sense, is far from perfect. In fact, just about every electronic piece I own is similarly imperfect. Certainly no one is looking for perfection, but many of us do not want to live with 100% failure.

Now, this is important to me for the following very real reason: When I have a group of people in my theatre watching a D-VHS recording, and it is one of those rare tapes that has a brief glitch -- at least one person INVARIABLY blurts out "What was that?", and I have to explain. This pulls EVERYONE in the room completely out of the movie experience they were immersed in, and IMHO, ruins it. As much as I hate it, I can live with this during the occasional viewing. I can't live with it in EACH AND EVERY movie I watch (whether by myself, or with a group) or EACH AND EVERY movie that I save for my collection.

If you purchased 5 DVDs, and every one of them had a similar glitch at one or two points in the film -- you would return every one of them. Don't pretend you wouldn't.

If you purchased a name-brand VHS VCR, and on every single recording you made, the picture blacked out for a second or two -- you would return it. Don't pretend you wouldn't.

If you purchased a car that -- every time you got in it to drive somewhere, quit on you "just once" at some point in the journey -- you would return it, or keep on the mechanics until the problem was permanently fixed. I don't think anyone would have the attitude "Oh well, it runs for 99% of the journey, no product is perfect and nothing in life is perfect". I know I wouldn't.

This is what is holding so many of us back from purchasing. This is what is so frustrating to so many of us who WANT to buy the product. We're not against the product, nor do we want to see it fail. In no way are we not "behind" Richard. (Truthfully, it feels much of the time like Richard and esp. Dave are not "behind" us).

We just want to see the problem addressed. We want to know the problem is being given the right priority (it doesn't appear to be). We want direct, honest communication (there never appears to be any). We want a friendly, customer-driven attitude -- whether it's pre-sales or post-sales (the attitude seems to be anything but).

We don't want perfection, but we want these things -- and they're really not too much to ask.

DC

I check this thread every day hoping the glitches get fixed so I can buy it. Same with the HD Leeza. The deceptiveness surrounding the company makes me a little uneasy and it's disappointing to hear nothing but excuses day after day, but I think it's only a matter of time before an HD recording solution comes out. Who it ends up being I don't really care, but I would prefer to get it from a company that had a track record of supporting their customers.


You are wasting your time, dude. I've been down the road you are treading, and you are just going to end up right back where you started, but with a nice heart attack to remind you of how much fun you had doing it.

fyi

Speculating- Even though the JVC deck does a better job in it's decoder at
handling the AVX1's stream than some other decoders, it's recording section
may buffer differently than it's decoder section, and this may mean that
it's recording section
experiences buffer overflow errors and resyncs even if its pass through
decoder doesn't show the resync at the time of recording. This has been
reported before. Glitches get recorded by the deck that weren't seen at the
deck's outputs at the time of recording.

Relevant to this is that HD3D reported when he talked about recording from
the AVX1 to the PC that , "This process takes away several sources of
potential problems associated with taping and reimporting. I have almost no
glitches anymore, and if so, they can be tracked back to the incoming
signal. I am using the new AVX1 firmware, which is a major improvement in
this process as well."

Although it isn't expected that everyone is going to swtich to PC for
recording, there is good evidence from this that the AVX1 is putting out all
of the data and there is at least one recording device (Windows XP PC
hardrive) that will record this without introducing its own additional
glitches. There is also good reason to believe that 169 will further
upgrade the AVX1 software to provide a signal to the deck that doesn't cause
the deck to stutter like this. That is the AVX1's job after all, to make
the signal compatible with the deck.


fyi

Dave

Being able to record to the PC will be a big plus. This allows many advantages. Reduces wear and tear on deck if recording fails allows for editing of recorded event then final archiving to tape until HD-DVD arrive.
Interested in the 6000 unit, again a plus if the path to the PC does not involve the Tape player.

If I read Richards note right, he has the avx-1 to pc working in the lab.
Looks like it may be my time to try tomorrow.

Dave

Let us know!

I have stuff in my hand. Will be giving it a shot today. Work to do, but just again giving you fyi that it should happen soon!!

Dave

Progess. I have recorded for the avx-1 straight into the PC.

I used dvhstools, but it never would let me stop the capture, so I have to kill it.

I used graph edit also to capture.

I used graph edit to play, and I have some jumps.

I used my JVC and DTC100 decoders to decode the PC file and worked 99%. I have found a few funnies which RIchard is looking at. Boy is this close.

Dave

Originally posted by HD3D
Here is the setup:
1. Connect the AVX1 with the RCA receiver
2. Connect the RCA receiver with the back firewire port of the JVC deck
3. Boot the AVX1 disk and turn on the RCA receiver (tune to desired channel, e.g. HBO HD)
4. On your laptop (or PC) you need to run WinXP and install both the JVC tape driver and the TSPCAP filter (that is actually also used by DVHS tool)
5. Once everything is booted and installed connect your laptop (or PC) with the front firewire port of the JVC.
6. On the JVC select the I-number that corresponds to AVX1 (it might require some channel up and town switching, - no more than the usual problems when trying to record to tape)
7. Once you've got the correct I-number, the PC/Laptop should recognize the tape drive / activate MSTape driver (you notice this by the fact that (on the JVC) the display indicates "HS" rather than "STD").

Something isnt working with this for me. I've rewired my setup to match yours, JVC (rear) to DTC, AVX to DTC, and PC to JAV (front), booted up everything. Problem I am having is that as soon as I connect the PC to JVC in step 5, I can no longer access any I- numbers. The JVC switches from I-1 (viewing AVX the old way) to "I-" and basically freezes on the I selection. Channel changing goes from F-1 to L-2 to L-1 to I- back to F-1. Any suggestions?

Dave, there is a thread in the HTPC section which is titled "GNU GPL software allows mpeg2 and DVD vobs playback on Hipix, AccessDTV, WinTV-HD". I read the following info from it and thought you might want to pass it on to Richard.


"Regarding your audio issue - The JVC decoder likes 300ms or more of audio in its buffer. If the multiplexer puts in any less, you will get silence. Unfortunately with MPEG2TS you'll never know. On some material it will work fine, on others, it will have to little data in the audio buffer."

There was a reply to this as follows: "AHA!! You are indeed correct Leszek. I demuxed the VOB, offset the audio by about 300 MS (advanced it) and poof!!! There is audio with no problems. I think the DVD was authored somewhat out-of-sync."

Thanks, will pass to the man

Dave

If I havent make it clear, 169time is working on changing some avx-1 s/w so it will look like a deck to the PC, just as the dtc100 can do today.
Thats how I have been testing it, just with the JVC deck driver, no tuner.
This may allow it to work with HD PC cards I think? This is what I want to try out.

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
If I havent make it clear, 169time is working on changing some avx-1 s/w so it will look like a deck to the PC, just as the dtc100 can do today.
Thats how I have been testing it, just with the JVC deck driver, no tuner.
This may allow it to work with HD PC cards I think? This is what I want to try out.
I think the key then is just whether the transport streams end up in a form that these PC cards can play them without glitches. If DVHSTool can play them glitch free after recording then that is a good step towards this. I think this is what someone meant about making the recordings more "compliant" a while back.

BTW: If you don't want to go to the effort of getting or borrowing one of these cards and installing the software, then transferring a one or two minute example to somebody with one over the internet might be a reasonable solution to getting some testing done. Another step if you have a DVD burner would be to burn a 20 minute example and send it to someone for testing. I won't go into or know what the copyright issues would be for just clips for testing, but I don't think it would go outside of the spirit of those laws.

--Darin

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
Something isnt working with this for me. I've rewired my setup to match yours, JVC (rear) to DTC, AVX to DTC, and PC to JAV (front), booted up everything. Problem I am having is that as soon as I connect the PC to JVC in step 5, I can no longer access any I- numbers. The JVC switches from I-1 (viewing AVX the old way) to "I-" and basically freezes on the I selection. Channel changing goes from F-1 to L-2 to L-1 to I- back to F-1. Any suggestions?


Kirby,

Let's first check whether you have all the software requirements installed. You need:
- WinXP
- the MS Tape driver (that recognizes the JVC)
- the TSP CAP filter
- DVHS Tool (I could only get it to work with version 2.1)
(You need DVHS Tool only for defining the tp filesizes)

Assuming you have these software requiremients in place you should first turn on the devices in the following order (at least that's what works for me)
- Boot the PC
- Turn on the RCA receiver and select the channel
- Turn on the JVC
- Boot the AVX1 and don't do anything until it's fully bootet
- Switch the channel on the JVC to the AVX1 I-number (if this does not work here, try it again after the following step:)
- Connect the PC firewire cable to the JVC and switch the JVC to the AVX1 I-number; you typically need to wait for 10 seconds or so until the JVC and the PC have established a connection (my system always beeps when the firewire cable is plugged in)

If the JVC fails to recognize the AVX1 number, turn it off and back on and try again (like you need to try when doing a tape recording). In 1 out of 10 cases I have to do this as well or even have to reboot the AVX1.
Hope this helps

Based on the comparison of AVX to JVC versus AVX to PC versus direct satellite viewing, I have a hypothesis on why we experience all these glitches. My emerging hypothesis is that there are always small broadcast packet losses or glitches (video and audio), which you normally would not even notice. However, when sent through the AVX and subsequently to the JVC these small glitches are amplified so that the system becomes somewhat unstable (in particular the old firmware had that problem). So when you compare the tiny glitch in direct viewing with a bigger glitch after recording, I think it's just the extended "glitch time" the AVX-JVC system needs to recover. The direct to PC method takes one element out of the chain so that the glitches are almost not amplified (may be a tiny little bit). So if Richard could either teach the AVX to disregard incoming glitches or to recover faster (therefore not amplifying) I think that could be the solution.
HD3D

Originally posted by darinp
I think the key then is just whether the transport streams end up in a form that these PC cards can play them without glitches. If DVHSTool can play them glitch free after recording then that is a good step towards this. I think this is what someone meant about making the recordings more "compliant" a while back.


From what I can tell, DVHStool with Elecard can already play AVX1 recording (as captured from tape) without glitches.

So bypassing the DVHS tape, and having DVHStool play them may still not prove that they are "compliant".

The real test is if they will play back without glitches (or "hiccups") on any decoder. Like the Janus based HiPix/MyHD cards, the Samsung T165, etc.

My working theory on all of this follows something Lezek1 posted about some buffer sizes during the muxing process.

Some decoding devices may be more "tolerant" of muxing buffer issues than others...

See this topic:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=263766