Thanks Nick. I will probably go that route again, then. I'm glad Richard is accomodating us lead sniffing PCB burning junkies! :)

Since Dave has rescinded the $199 deal from the website, I'll have to wait until after the 921 is doing firewire I suppose.

Just to let folks know, we are brainstorming how we maximize the 169time avx-1 product in many ways. A group of us are engaged again with some ground breaking ideas. (In my opinion) If this works out, you are going to see a choice to do some stuff that for every other product you have from the big boys now, you have to "hack" to do what you want to do. Keep your fingers crossed.

And NO, this is NOT taking away from the two first must goals of avx-1 stablility and decoder flexibility. We MAY just be finding a much better way to go about it.

Dave

I hope that a former idea I posted is seriously being considered as a "ground Breaking" idea for a "Hack" I prefer retrofit product-

This would be a hard drive stack that can be added to as desired where the main connection plugs into the DVR 921 or the HD TIVO boxes to replace the existing single drive. Then the PC these drives reside in could be switched in and out much the way to access drives in a 1394 network today in windows explorer. If you guys don't do something with this concept, I plan to. The wave of the future is to do recording via a PVR on a hard drive as most will just want time shifting. The limitation to this approach is not functionality but rather number of tuners available and hard drive capacity. The 921 and the HDTIVO both address the multiple tuners issue although some don't think enough. Developing a hard drive stack for these PVR's is, in my way of thinking, a really easy kill product and one that neither TIVO noe E* has yet to address yet by the talk of the TIVO forums, this IS one of the most popular user hacks being done to TIVO boxes today, ie swapping out hard drives. I realize that none of you have seen the internals of the 921 but I have and it should not be difficult to do this. There may be some gotchas but I don't know of any at this time.

I'm considering getting the 6000 upgrade but I had a question first. Is it possible to make the AVX-1 look like a DVHS to the MyHD card? I have a 5000 w/mod as well as a 6000 and a JVC 30k in my system now. It has been great for recording the 4psk channels but obviously I want to get access to the new 8psk stuff. Since I can get the 6000 to output IR codes for a VCR I'm thinking I could train Girder to recognize these codes and set up the MyHD for recording when they are received. This would give me the 1 step recording feature that would make this system user friendly for my family. Having to set up multiple timers in the 6000/5000 and also in the MyHD has made this a non-starter for anyone else in the family. If the AVX-1 output looked like a DVHS to the MyHD I could just set it up to change inputs to tape and start a recording whenever the 6000 sent out the VCR codes.

Can this be done currently? Is it planned for the near (a few months) future?

Thanks in advance for your time

I have captured avx-1 streams to my PC's hard disk using the MyHD 1.60 application and avx-1 A4 software. The avx-1 will act as a DVHS deck. However, I achieved better overall results capturing avx-1 streams to hard disk using DVHSTool. These hard disk captures should be played back through the JVC decoder for best results.

Hey Guys,

Off subject ..... but has anyone had a problem recording Carnivale off of HBO with the AVX-1? I have recorded the whole season but missed one episode because of losing the connection during recording.

Mike
mbw23air@aol.com

Don,

" hope that a former idea I posted is seriously being considered as a "ground Breaking" idea for a "Hack" I prefer retrofit product-

This would be a hard drive stack that can be added to as desired where the main connection plugs into the DVR 921 or the HD TIVO boxes to replace the existing single drive. Then the PC these drives reside in could be switched in and out much the way to access drives in a 1394 network today in windows explorer."

If you read the Zenith HDr230 thread a member used a variation of your idea to record OTA HD on 3 large hard drives using a Trio Switcher.

Daniel

Mike,

I do record it but only to time shift, so I haven't archived any of them. Sorry,

Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for responding. I am so glad I bought your extra 169time setup. It has worked great and I have been able to watch lots of HD material that I normally wouldn't get to see.

Thanks again,
Mike

Can anyone list the pros / Cons of the JVC 30K vs. the 40K as it works with the 169Time AVX system?

I find I may be very close to moving on this JVC deck purchase before the end of the year.

Don, whats the price difference now?

The 30K ,with all its issues, alteast has had the f/w improved many times.

Dave

I'm not sure how to say it due to forum rules but the street difference this morning is only $150 and the 40K has some new features I wanted (d-theater with DTS broadband track)plus the lower risk of 30K failure issues. The lowest price source I found is also a place I do a ton of broadcast business with every year so I actually have an account there. :)

If you can get a 40K for 150 more than a 30K, thats sides easy.

I havent heard enough reports on any issues with the 169time to
40k. I think Alans not having issues?

Dave

Don

I have the 400U which is the pro version to the 40K

I have no playback issues when PB tapes recorded using the AXV/DTC100/30k combo.

I have no 400U/AVX experience because my 400 is upstairs in my theater for PB only while my 30Ks are downstairs and I use them for recording.

I do find the 400 to be very stable. Ive never had to clean mine as of yet but it did come with a head cleaning tape.
The OSM shows up on all outputs unlike the 30k. Very nice machine. I like it alot.

I have been playing around with my HD recording set up and I have verified that I can record a HD source directly onto my Powerbook.

This is what I used:

1) 800 MHz Titanium Powerbook running 10.3.1 with "VirtualDVHS"
2) 169time solution with 0.8B3 software (includes modified sat box + AVX-1 (linux box) + JVC 30K DVHS unit)
3) lots of firewire cables!

These items are connected as follows:

Powerbook -> AVX -> front of JVC deck -> back of JVC deck -> modded sat box

I hooked the JVC deck up to my AV receiver via component cables and a SPDIF cable.

I was able to use VirtualDVHS to record from the deck while watching some HBO-HD movie (Liam Neeson was in it but I do not know what it was).

It may be possible to make recordings directly onto a hard drive and not have to use a tape. OTA MPEG2 recordings could also be run through a fillter that would remove the commercials automatically or perhaps manually with Final Cut Pro.

I was able to play back my recorded transport streams from my Powerbook with VirtualDVHS to the JVC deck and then to my receiver. This allows you to skip to any point in the program by moving the slider in VirtualDVHS - you could use this to manually skip past commercials.

Now it would really be great if we did not even have to have the JVC deck for recording, that is, hook the AVX1 directly to the powerbook and record, then the deck would only be needed for playback.

Perhaps one could send the firewire stream directly to a TV / display, I think that the Marantz DLP projector has a firewire input, and since the new G5s have an optical output you could just send that to your receiver.

bwooster -

The Marantz's 1394 input cannot handle HD (only for camcorders)! I was thinking of getting one & researched this thoroughly.

Also, I think if you try 0.8B4 software, you should be able to eliminate the DVHS deck. Dave, please chime in to confirm...

Yep, B4, or B5 will do the trick. I would use b5 since Steve is using and having great success.

b5 also the avx-1 to look like a DVHS deck, just as Peter days.

Dave

I downloaded the CD image from Don Landis site but when I used that disc with my AVX it no longer worked with my JVC deck.

Dave, is that version ONLY for use with a PC? Is there somewhere that I can download the B4 software from?

Thanks for any help!

B5 has B4 and B3 stuff. B4 added just PC stuff. Your B3 works though?
Made sure you cycled the I channel?

Dave

The B3 software that came with my system works fine for me with the JVC deck.

I'd like to use the PC recording abilities of the more recent version of the software.

bwooster-

Just making sure you understand that file which is a zip file, is not an image file. You first have to unzip it to 6 files that include a text file. Then you rstore the image from those 5 *.rar files using a utility that supports the rar format. I use stuffit. Now you should end up with the image file *.gi or global image which is about 155 Mb large. You do an image burn to the CD and it unpacks to a series of folders / tree on the CD that is a bootable disk.

Dave- just an update for you-- as of midnight my server logs report that 49 downloads of the 08A5.zip were downloaded since I began hosting it a week ago. I sold 4 new web cast half hour TV shows for posting to that site last week but I should still have plenty of HD/bandwidth space to continue hosting the image file. Each download is about the same bandwidth as an airing of a half hour show on this server.

I was able to burn the CD successfully. Its just that when I hook it up to my system the AVX just keep churning away - it just keep reading the CD forever.

I took my stock system - works fine with 8B3 - and just substituted the newly burned CD. The system no longer starts up - the CD drive just trundles away.

Fortunately the old disc works fine. Now that Directv has switched to 1920 x 1088 broadcasting my last five recordings have been PERFECT (with the old software)!

I suspect you DID NOT burn the CD successfully!

You state that the cd just churns away. Indicating that it does not have the boot files to boot the AVX computer. How do you know you burned the CD successfully? Have you examined the file structure on the CD? Bet you haven't! My guess is that you just added the gi file to the CD as a data disk and not an image burn which will break out that single gi file to a complete operating system. I'd also bet you don't have a computer monitor connected to your AVX.

If you stick your old CD into your regular computer and "explore" it's contents, then try the one you burned, it should look nearly the same, lots of folders and files. IF the new one doesn't show this then you can be sure you did not successfully burn the CD as an image burn.

The only other explanation is that your download was corrupted. Or your unzipping process was not executed properly.

Before burning to the CD your 08A5.gi file should be 151,681 Kb in size if your procedure was done properly up to that point. The CD I am using now was burned from my downloaded zip file.


Also, In order to see what is happening with the AVX operation you must have a computer monitor connected.
IMO, operating the AVX without a monitor connected is like operating a computer for word processing with nothing but a printer connected.

I experimented, by using my laptop, that I can successfully record, through the 169 time setup, to my computer. Now I want to dedicate a PC just for recording purposes.

Can somewhere share with me what the minimum and/or recommended computer specs should be for PC recording. I know I need Window XP. How about processor? P3 or P4? Bus speed? Ram? How large is your hard drive?

Thanks,
Ron

You said, "Have you examined the file structure on the CD? Bet you haven't!"

Good thing you did not make a REAL bet with me! ;)

I did examine the CD. I stuck it into my powerbook and sure enough it looks like a bootable linux distro - just like my original disc does.

I will try hooking a monitor up to the AVX to see what it says.

"I stuck it into my powerbook "

Hmmm???? Not sure about using a power book (MAC) to burn the image for the AVX. I just don't know enough about Macs to know if you've stepped across the line on compatibility. Even Dave doesn't want to support those who do not use exactly what he recommended to make the disk, ie stomp etc.

I use stuffit to un zip and stuffit to make the *.gi. Then I used Sony Extreme to burn the image. I also made one using Nero, and once did it using Stomp too. I would say if you used a powerbook and saw the tree structure it should be OK but just don't know for sure.

Well I burned the CD on a PC using the supplied instructions (used WinRAR and RecordNow).

I hooked up a monitor to my AVX and watched it boot up off the CD. I discovered that it is taking a long time to boot up, much longer than 8b3 did.

It says something like "loading vmlinuz.img" and this seems to take a VERY long time. During this time the CD is NOT being accessed and so it looks like the AVX is locked up (compared to how it worked with 8b3).

After the AVX finished booting up I hooked it up to my Powerbook. I had the AVX connected to the front of the jvc deck & back of jvc deck hooked up to the sat box. Now the display said something like, "Looking for HDVR". It seemed to find the deck and then everything worked! This is the first time I got the 8a5 software working with my system.

I started up an app on my Powerbook called "AVCBrowser" and it listed two AVC devices on the FireWire bus - the JVC deck and the AVX. Oddly enough the AVX was listed as a camera.

I was able to record HD directly to my Powerbook using "VirtualDVHS".

Now I want to make it work without the JVC deck in the loop.

Originally posted by Ron 34238
Can somewhere share with me what the minimum and/or recommended computer specs should be for PC recording. I know I need Window XP. How about processor? P3 or P4? Bus speed? Ram? How large is your hard drive?I am using a Celeron 1000 for PC recordings with 256MB Ram and DVHSTool. Sometime I will record with my overclocked Athon 2500+ powered PC using the Fusion II card. Hard drive size should be whatever you need.

So I take it you have the CD working now but it takes quite a while to get past that one instruction / file "vmlinuz.img"

I'm wondering if there may be a flaw on the CD where that file is located and it take awhile to get past that point as it reads and re-reads until the file is correctly read into memory. You might try burning a new image file CD and see if the second one is just as slow.

Glad you connected the monitor as you can now see what the heck it is you are doing! :) The way the AVX works, I wouldn't use it without one.

I'm in the middle of a marathon test here seeing if the 08A5 will continue to operate beyond 5 days without expiring and needing rebooting. So far the test is passing 6 days as I last booted the AVX on Sunday night at 6PM. Never got past 5 days on the 08B3. If I weren't in the middle of this test I would reboot and time that file load here for you. Try another CD burn as they are cheap!

Glad you are loaded now as that, at least proves your burn process was OK. The monitor connection was the key!

I would burn another CD. Shouldnt take that long.


Dave

You are right in that the hooking up the monitor was the key to helping me understand what was going on.

Without the JVC deck in the chain the display read something like "looking for HDVR". I ran the Virtual DVHS app and still the AVX was "looking".

The VirtualDVHS app emulates a DVHS using the Mac. Obviously the AVX is probing the firewire bus for something that VirtualDVHS is not supplying.

Dave, can you please tell me what the AVX is looking for? Is it looking for a specific AVC status reply or some such info? Since I have the source to VirtualDVHS it should be easy to add this to it.

Thanks for any help.

I rebooted my system and now the system won't load off the CD! I took the CD out and it now has a scratch on it! The AVX CD drive appears to be "chewing" on the discs.

I will reburn with a Verbatim CDR (better quality than the cheapie CDR that I first used).

"I took the CD out and it now has a scratch on it! "

Duh! :)

Anyway, you're on the go at this point. As for the rest of your questions... out of my area. Others will need to guide you with the DVHS virtual aps and the Powerbook stuff. Have fun!

The dvhs deck needs to be pointed to the avx-1, not the dtc100.
I believe then the avx-1 and dtc100 (6000) are passing info.

Its possible the CD reader is bad.

dave

Originally posted by stjr
I am using a Celeron 1000 for PC recordings with 256MB Ram and DVHSTool. Sometime I will record with my overclocked Athon 2500+ powered PC using the Fusion II card. Hard drive size should be whatever you need.

Steve:
So if I use an Athlon 950 mhz I should be OK. How many MB of Ram should be minimum. Also, how many GB is required for a 2 hour recording?

As you can tell by my inquiry, I finally had success with test recording to my laptop. I did find, however, that when I removed the PC from the chain, it required rebooting of both the AVX-1 as well as the HDVR. That was the problem I was having at first.

Ron,

An Athon 950 should work with DVHSTool, however, I can't tell you the minimum configuration. I just know what works for me. You probably don't need a lot of Ram if you are not multitasking. You can check your Ram usage in Windows XP Task Manager. ~ 8.5 GB per hour is the space required for HD recordings.

Hi All,

I recently got my AVX-1 and HDVR up and running using CapVHS since DVHSTool does not support PC recording using current 2.13 version and I am waiting for my JVC 30K to arrive.

Now the questions:

1. What is the cause of pixelization that seems to show from time to time?
in the recording. ( I have read 1394 cables, AVX-1 location to HDVR all which imply signal interfernce. but given cable specs and metal cases does not seem to add up)

2. What about 1394 chipset? I see that the 169Time uses TI's chip on their add-in board; should all 1394 boards use TI's chip.

3. Is there a utility to check record stream and find out what went wrong?
or at least one to monitor on-screen the video/sound before or during the record phase

4. Why does the 169Time not send the transport stream for non-HD channels? Seems like it should be able too.

Thanks for your help!
Rew

AVX-1
MSI MS-6368(VIA PLE133TVT8601T chipset)motherboard
Celeron 1.3GHz CPU
128 mB SDRAM 133MHz bus
SIIG Firewire board(3 PORT)
Pioneer DVD-120 cdrom drive

HDVR
Toshiba DST-3000 mod-ed

CableToGo premium 1394 cables

Main System
Asus P4PE
ATI AIW9700 Pro
P4 2.53ghz CPU
512 MB ram
240GB Raid 0 array
2 port on-board 1394
MDP-120 HD Card

Rew452,

I can only answer question #2. Most if not all 1394 boards should work. I have one with a TI and another with a Via chipset. They both work.

DVHSTool 2.13 works to record avx-1 transport streams to the PC. It's what I use.

Steve, am hoping Ricka will release 2.14 beta soon

dave

Steve,

Can you tell me how you have DVHSTool setup? I can get CapDVHS to work no problems but DVHSTool sort of hangs for me. And Don said current V2.13 would not work but to wait for 2.14 it would???

Rew

I had issues with 2.13, but worked fine with 2.14

dave

DVHSTool 2.2 (aka 2.14) is alive...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=334920

--Rick

Cool Rick!!!

So you PC folks, go for it and see if your results improved like mine did.

Dave

Rew,

I think the key to using DVHSTool 2.13 is to disable the tape transport controls on the "Settings" menu. I only enable those controls if I am actually archiving to tape. It's much trickier to use if you don't have a JVC deck, but I did get it to work. Now we have a new version, so it's time power up those PC's.

OK, I did a 5 minute recording and playback with DVHSTool version 2.2 with the avx-1, A5 software. You can now designate the avx-1 as your attached device in the "Settings" menu. It even has a timer to shut down the capture. This function worked well for me.

What did not work well for me was the playback of the avx-1 captured files through the JVC deck. The "Archive" and "Restore" functions were sticky and tended to grey out if I designated the JVC deck as the attached device. I eventually got it working, but 2.13 was easier for me in that regard. There were no glitches that I could see in my 5 minute capture. That's enough for me for now.

I just posted this in the DVHS Tools beta thread, but seem relevant here too!

For what its worth, today I tried my setup again with direct to PC recording from 169time. I am using the old 2.13 version, AVX-1 software 0.8A5, and my firewire chain simply is PC - AVX - DTC.

I dont have anything elaborate installed, I installed the Elecard mpeg player, and the only changes in DVHSTools 2.13 I made from defaults were to do 1 huge file and not chunks. So far, I recorded from HBO-HD, Drumline, and a 3 hour block from DiscHD (from DirecTV). I have not played back these files on my TV thru the MyHD card, but just playing them with Elecard MPEG player, they are perfect. No audio or video glitches at all!

What specifically did you improve in the 2.2 beta for the 169time units? The reason I ask, is because with the A5 AVX beta, it seems to work flawlessly for me (and this is a first for me!). Prior version of AVX software were not so kind to me, even A4 which was supposed to allow direct to PC recording. But this setup I have right now is doing great things!

I am almost afraid to install the new DVHSTools beta since its working so well right now with the A5 AVX software and 2.13 DvhsTools!

Please see if it will playback using your myhd card without dropouts.

Thanks Kirby.

Alan, will do that tonight or tomorrow night, as I have to get the HTPC setup again (different video card, have to tinker with powerstrip and all).

Is it unlikely they wont play without drops? I mean, I can play these files on the recording PC (my main desktop) in a window (i.e. not full screen) with elecard player, while about 10 other apps are going on. Or isnt this a CPU processing issue, and merely a decorder issue with the MyHD? In the event they dont play back well, I might just convert them to WMP9 files.

I'll let you know my results on th MyHD.

What is a good firewire cable and where can I get one. I want to try some PC recording and need a new cable. I have just been using standard firewire cables for the DVHS deck and AVX that I purchased from Office supply store.

I think part of my glitching problem may be due to using SVHS tapes. I know I have a lot more trouble using the FUJI ST160s than with the JVCDF420s. I can't get a good recording on the FUJI160s. I read the thread where Don Landis tested the SVHS Fuji and they tested well. Maybe it has something to do with the way they track. If a tape didn't roll smoothly on the spool it seems like it could cause glitching but it might still test well. I think the JVC 120s record with fewer glitches also but I need to do more recording to be sure. THE JVC420s cost too much and I need to find an alternative for long movies.

JVCs website says the following about using SVHS tapes:

I am seeing block noise during playback of D-VHS tapes. How can I fix this problem?

* Do not record program in DVHS mode on an S-VHS cassette. Use of S-VHS cassettes will not allow for maximum performance and may result in head clogging. Use only D-VHS cassettes as recommended in the instruction manual on page 27.


I

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Please see if it will playback using your myhd card without dropouts.The files captured with DVHSTool 2.2 and the axv-1 A5 software do not play well for me on the MyHD card.

IMO, its the A5 software that has the primary effect on the quality of the captured stream, not the DVHSTool 2.2 TSPCAP filter. I consider the A5 software to provide a definite noticeable improvement for playback from tape or from a PC with the JVC deck decoders and some software decoders. The A5 software only offers a minor improvement in playback with the MyHD hardware decoder, however.

Originally posted by Randall Morton
What is a good firewire cable and where can I get one. I want to try some PC recording and need a new cable. I have just been using standard firewire cables for the DVHS deck and AVX that I purchased from Office supply store.

I just use Belkin cables. But I am not sure there really is a good or bad cable. I've used the thin ones that came with components and belkins interchangably, and saw no difference in performance.

Originally posted by Randall Morton


JVCs website says the following about using SVHS tapes:

I am seeing block noise during playback of D-VHS tapes. How can I fix this problem?

* Do not record program in DVHS mode on an S-VHS cassette. Use of S-VHS cassettes will not allow for maximum performance and may result in head clogging. Use only D-VHS cassettes as recommended in the instruction manual on page 27.


I

This subject has come up several times in the Forum. Indeed, there is an addendum sheet of paper included with my 40K that warns of the same thing.

However, JVC touts this machine as also being an S-VHS VCR. But I have never seen an explanation (reason?) why recording on S-VHS tape is fine in the S-VHS mode, but such use is not permitted when the machine is in the D-VHS mode. After all, aren't the same tape heads used for each?

It's because they get more $$$ if they sell a D-VHS tape than an S-VHS tape. Isn't it always about money:rolleyes:

I never said anything was wrong with SVHS recording. What I am saying is that it seems I get better results(less glitches) with JVC DVHS tapes than I do with FUJI. I've only used these two brands. I know for sure the Fuji 160s are a big problem in my system. I have yet to get a good recording all the way through on a 160. What I am suggesting is that it may be the construction of the tape transport moreso than the tape itself. I have gotten some good recordings on the Fuji 120s but it seems like the JVC 300s have fewer glitches in my setup.

I did quote from the JVC website and you may be right about JVC wanting to sell more tapes. Well, they are selling a few more to me but not because of what they said.

Hi Randall

I use nothing but Fugi 120 & 160 and I have great luck with them using both my JVC 30K & 40K. I do not own a 400.

Tape is not an issue for me anyway.

Originally posted by DHarp193
It's because they get more $$$ if they sell a D-VHS tape than an S-VHS tape. Isn't it always about money:rolleyes:

I hate to think you are right. It also may have been the best excuse JVC could come up with to explain the problems with the 30K. The lesson for today is: Blame the tape or the user; never the machine.

I must say I like the 40K. But I am still firmly in the MITS camp for day in to day out HD recording and playback.

Alan,
I thought you said you had some glitching problems, or was that only with the new software. I just know I get more glitches using the Fuji 160s, a significant amount more(maybe I just got a bad batch of tapes). As I said I'm not sure about the 120s. I get some glitches on the 120 Fuji and the JVC 300s but it seems like the 300s do a bit better, but both work fairly well. Even one significant glitch during a movie bothers me.

Some people recording to computer reported getting perfect playback which made me think that some of the glitching may be tape related rather than a problem with the software. I'm going to try recording to the HD to satisfy my curiosity.

I have over 3,000 good recordings with Fuji ST 120 and 160. They work as good as the best DVHS tapes.

Three thousand is a good number. Must be something else at work with my 160s.

My experience-
While I, too, have excellent luck with Fuji ST 120 and 160's for simple low pass recordings, I discovered that using the same tape over and over, I got fewer pixelizations, aka dropouts with the DF420 for high multipass tape. I have been using 4 DF420's for time shifting and re-recording passes. These 4 tapes now have close to a hundred passes with few dropouts. The ST fuji series will be good for 20-40 passes but I have very few that I've tested this way. After I did get 15-20 and began to see frequent dropouts, I gradually began to use the DVHS DF420's for my time shifting purposes so little data beyond just a few Fuji ST's that failed early. The VCR used is the Mits 2000U for all tests and this deck has extremely high speed Rew and FF so that doesn't help with wear and tare on the tape.
Bottom line- my recomendation is to use DVHS tape for multi pass use. Fuji's for low pass use.

Oh, I have tried using the broadcast series SVHS tape I normally use in TV show duplications for the NYC Cablevision (They use SVHS tape only in their head end) and have had excellent results too but the length I use is an ST 64 and a couple ST32's since that is all I stock. It is also available in ST126's. Broadcast series are slightly longer and have extra durable backings as well as cost 4 times as much! They are designed for large multipass use without dropouts.

Question, if one were to write a HD file to hard drive, does it matter if its one large file, or smaller subfiles?

Dave

Dave -

I think you'll get different opinions about this. I like 1-minute long files since they are easy to move around to free up space (easy to burn some to CD-RW or DVD-RW, easy to move to another drive where one big file wouldn't fit...). Also easy to do a 1st pass edit by deleting any files which contain only the middle of a commercial break.

Peter, are there issues with timing, meaning, these files all work cleanly together?

Dave

Dave -

My only experience has been with the Hipix card & it is designed to seamlessly transition from one file to the next (as are the other cards which support multiple files). Another reason for multiple files (probably the reason these various cards all support this) is that under Windows 95/98/Me a single file can't be larger than 2GB.

Got to run to catch a plane, so I'll have to catch up on where you're going with this later. Bye for now.

Originally posted by h2ofun
Question, if one were to write a HD file to hard drive, does it matter if its one large file, or smaller subfiles? The best way would be to have it user configurable. Let the user choose a maximum file size and then during recording the app will create multiple files if necessary. That's what the MyHD app does. I happen to use 9GB (max) file size. This gives me about 1 hour per file. There are many reasons why some want to use small files and also many reason why some want to use large (or single) files. If you support only one file size (small or large) you are sure to disappoint many.

Jay

Some playback applications only offer FF/RR if there are multible files. MyHD card for an example.

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Some playback applications only offer FF/RR if there are multible files. MyHD card for an example. MyHD offers a user configurable skip forward and skip back. I use 30 secs. fwd and 10 secs. back. It also has predefined "skips" (1x - 4x fwd and back) you can peform with one button press. With these you can easily move forward and backward without too much problem. I don't know what the other cards have.

Jay

jerndl,

Unfortunately, the MyHD card will not FF/RW past a file boundary, the last I checked. In other words, if you are playing back one minute length files, then one minute is the greatest FF/Rew time that you can achieve. You might not notice it with a 9GB file, but I certainly notice this limitation when I play one minute Hipix files on the MyHD card.

Has anyone in here tried to stream a recorded 169time stream to a Roku unit yet? Wondering if it works or not (or will). supposedly the Roku will play all 18 ATSC types, and other TS/TP files from HiPix and MyHD cards (I think)

Originally posted by stjr
Unfortunately, the MyHD card will not FF/RW past a file boundary, the last I checked. In other words, if you are playing back one minute length files, then one minute is the greatest FF/Rew time that you can achieve. You might not notice it with a 9GB file, but I certainly notice this limitation when I play one minute Hipix files on the MyHD card. One minute files do not work well with MyHD. A perfect example of why user defined file sizes are the way to go.

Jay

I was talking with Keith (*salesperson at ONECALL.COM) 3pm EST, today and we were discussing HDTV Options to record other than what the 169time has to offer, and I was amazed as to what he had told me. That the TOSHIBAS ~ Toshiba 65H93 & 51H93 have “2 IEEE 1394 ports with DTV Link for sending and receiving standard and high definition signals” In other words you can daisy chain a HD recorder or HDPVR and record what your watching. He claims that just yesterday alone he sold units just for this exact reason, to display any HD Source and record directly to the JVC Deck. Keith also claims that the info is on the web site to show you how to do it. I didn’t check…

He claims it works with no restriction. My question is to the guys here in the Forum, if this is true, why pay $1500.00 on a modification, on a device you already own and paid hundreds of dollars to begin with (*the 169time which still is having problems) and you also need a AX1 device. When you buy the i.e. Toshiba 51in unit for say $500.00 dollars more over the $1500.00 Mod Price, you get the EXACTLY what everyone wanted in the first place. Now the issues of time shifting etc. I have no idea about, but if this gives me HD recording device with no restrictions on a JVC deck, then I’m sure I could daisy chain a PVR off that. Anyone wish to comment on this, if this is factual?

I am a bit dense on the technical stuff. Is he saying that a DirecTv STB (for example) would feed a component HD signal (HBO-HD for example) to the 65H93 which would then output that signal via firewire to the JVC 40K?

If he is talking outputing OTA signals from the 65H93 integrated tuner to the 40K via firewire, then that is nothing new.

GRAPHICS,

I believe the built in firewire on the Toshiba sets will only pass through the firewire input. In other words , the source needs to come from a device through firewire output. It will then pass along that output. So let's say you have a HD satellite reciever, you would still need to have a firewire out on that reciever (which the 169time mod gives you) to be able to pass along the signal to a JVC DHVS deck. I'm pretty sure The TV won't convert a component HD signal to firewire.

Marc.

I just checked OneCalls web site and it says the following:
2 IEEE 1394 ports with DTV Link for sending and receiving standard and high definition signals

You would think with a DVI input that you could record directly to a DVHS deck but I'm sure this is not possible on this set with DTV.

The only ones who ever seem to find these recording tasks we do with the costly more difficult equipment, much cheaper and easier with the conventional stuff never seem to actually do it. They just report what they think can be done.

When you are actually able to record like we do with the AVX-1, DirecTV and DishNetwork HDTV programming, then let us know.

Simply put, Graphics, the 169Time uses two pieces of equipment to accomplish satellite HDTV recording output for a DVHS VCR-
1. the HDVR-2 which is an expensive modification to your satellite receiver that outputs via 1394. 2. The second device is the AVX-1. This is a 1394 connected device which, in the simplest language, translates the digital information so that the DVHS VCR can record it as the signals from the receiver are not DVHS VCR ready.

Nobody is saying the 169Time stuff is cheap. We're just saying it is currently all we have that works. The future? That remains to be seen! :)

Don, I have followed this thread for a very long time, I kind of know what the 169time mod does. Believe me many times I was going to jump on and get my DST3000 modified with the fire wire.
But what Keith (onecall.com) explained to me is via those (2) IEEE 1394 PORTS, on those *NEW Toshibas. (i.e. my current DST3000 with component cables plug directly into my TOSHIBA 56H80 ~ HD Inputs). The *New sets also will be hooked up the same way if I purchased one, however they also will have (2) 1394 ports, And what he explained is what ever is displayed (*ON YOUR SCREEN*) that same signal is also available via IEEE 1394 PORTS on the back of those *NEW Toshiba Sets.
NOW AFTER REPEATING MY SELF 5 times to him, I said, like "What ever is displayed on your TV Screen in any form i.e. HD content or standard display" That SAME signal can also be available (processed inside the TOSHIBA) on one of those IEEE 1394 ports, and that IF the JVC HD recorder was connected to that output source, (again the IEEE 1394) they will copy it EXACLTY what is being shown. He repeated it all 5 times YES!.
Maybe you didn’t understand what I am saying, or the other readers of this thread, but IF this is FACT, which after talking with the guy, I assume it is. He claims to have seen it work. And yes HD off a satellite feed and NO MOD on any source equipment used. He said he’s been selling a lot since word has gotten out…..
He claims even cable boxes that are capable of showing HD channels, also will feed out one of those ports, after the Toshiba unit gets a hold of the signal. So again if this WORKS…$2000.00 goes better for a complete new 51in HD display that offers even more what a mod does, don’t ya think?
Playing devils advocate, (*assume this works) what would you buy? A Mod or NEW set?
It’s a no brainier ~ man I hope this is true…other manufactures will offer it I’m sure.

Originally posted by Graphics
But what Keith (onecall.com) explained to me is via those (2) IEEE 1394 PORTS, on those *NEW Toshibas. (i.e. my current DST3000 with component cables plug directly into my TOSHIBA 56H80 ~ HD Inputs). The *New sets also will be hooked up the same way if I purchased one, however they also will have (2) 1394 ports, And what he explained is what ever is displayed (*ON YOUR SCREEN*) that same signal is also available via IEEE 1394 PORTS on the back of those *NEW Toshiba Sets.
NOW AFTER REPEATING MY SELF 5 times to him, I said, like "What ever is displayed on your TV Screen in any form i.e. HD content or standard display" That SAME signal can also be available (processed inside the TOSHIBA) on one of those IEEE 1394 ports, and that IF the JVC HD recorder was connected to that output source, (again the IEEE 1394) they will copy it EXACLTY what is being shown. He repeated it all 5 times YES!.
Keith doesn't know what he's talking about. I can guarantee you that it will not work as described. It will only work when the TV is displaying a digital OTA channel via the builtin tuner. It will not work with a Directv stb connected via component.

Jay

Let him buy it and prove it works.

Dave

Graphics..

Check out the owners manual on the toshiba site.. The only O/P where internal ATSC, Digital Cable and IEEE signals can be recorded is the REC OUT jack which passes a down-converted signal to an analog output. It seams that the IEEE jacks act as a hub or chain connected devices only and does not pass any internally created signal...SD or HD.

Ed

Then (As "jerndl" states and is correct, "Keith" is wrong!) ~ which is why I posted the talk I had with the "onecall" sales person. I was just curious if (YOU GUYS!) knew of such an option. It was interseting in he said he had seen an actual JVC recording in High Def., as I discribed in previous post.
Oh well......... "Wouldn't it have been nice too!" :)

I have a friend that was told the same thing from two Ultimate Electronics sales people. One claimed that he had actually done it. Obviously these guys have no clue what they are talking about. I wish I had been there. This was a local store - I would have had them give me a demo by recording HDTV from a satellite source... Maybe that would make them think before they speak.

-Mike

Okay computer nerds. Anyone up for another way to use the HD stream and start into the PVR world?

I have been working with Dan Dennedy again, and we have put together a Linux Hard disc recording/playback solution. This can either record from the dtc100 stream, or the avx-1 stream. It uses the ddr1394 program to either record the data to the hard drive, or push it back out through either the dtc100 or JVC decoder. For the few minutes I tried so far, it worked great. Now, I am going to try a few hours today and see what happens.
I redid the gen last night and put samba on. This in the past allowed me to use a Windows machine to grab the file if I wanted. So, lots of neat ways to do this.

Now, this solution is not for the average Joe! Its nerd time!! But, it really isnt that hard. (Yea, I keep making mistakes!!) I have put together a step by step (pretty close) procedure on how to load a box up. I redid my two systems last night from scratch. One is IDE based. The other is SCSI.
Took me about 2 hours.

So, I see this is the basis for some neat possible stuff. I would love to get the avx-1 into this one box, but, not there yet. I would love to see some control s/w that can take the stream on the hard drive and do things like commerical skip, fast forwarding, etc. All the neat PVR stuff. Just need to get code written.

So, if anyone is interested in working on this, let me know. All the s/w needed to use is public stuff. And, one just uses a standard firewire card.
No need for anything fancy!!

Dave

Kirby says this decoder will handle TS streams

http://www.rokulabs.com

Dave

Shhhhh! ;)

Is this bad?

Dave

No, just messin with ya. They tested a 280MB (2minute) DiscoveryHD stream that I captured from my setup (DTC -> AVX -> PC) captured with DVHSTools. They got it to play, and I guess in the next release its going to be supported. I dont know how many other 169time users will like this feature, but for me, its great. I can archive to a drive array, and then let the Roku view the movies over ethernet. No more need for a JVC, in fact I can sell one of my 2, and dedicate the other one to just DTheater playback, and dont have to build a library of SVHS tapes with recordings on them.

Kirby, okay, this is cool. So, you are saying you can build you files, from either a Windows or Linux PC, to a disc array. And then it each room where you want to watch the HD, just put in an lan line, connect to the roku, and you are watching. So, you can have one per TV and watch seperate HD? And, this STB is just a nice dedicated box so it will, or should, be stable. Now, cool.

So, when will the update come out? Can it be downloaded? You buy one yet? How much you pay?

Steve, you got one of these yet?

Dave

Dont have one yet, but Goodguys had them at $450. Not sure on the update, it will be the next official or beta release, whichever is first. I'm going to be ordering my unit very soon now.

And yes, you could have several of these (to my knowledge) all accesing a central drive array full of HD files. Keep in mind the bandwidth required though. 100mbit is fine, but definitely want a switched network, and probably a gigabit server array so you have plenty of bandwidth. Very cool in my opinion!

I have a Roku new in box.
I also have a 1.5 tera bite server I store all my HD movies on and playback via the MYHD card in my main theater room.

With the new software would this be adequate equipment?

Dave

Are we looking at xmas or there abouts for the next window for the next software update that will include addressing the compatibility of the decoder.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
I have a Roku new in box.
I also have a 1.5 tera bite server I store all my HD movies on and playback via the MYHD card in my main theater room.

With the new software would this be adequate equipment?

That 1.5 terabyte server is too small. Send it to me, and buy a new one :D

Kirby, what updates does Alan have to do to the Roku to give it a try on his TS files on his server? Alan, hook it up and try it. That would be cool
to have a dedicated box to decode this stuff. But, still concerned on the price. If the roku is $500 and a 30K is $300, why would one not buy the 30K?

I agree, Alan, your server is way too small. ;)

quote: We expect to have an another testing version with more improvements for testing before xmas 2003.

Well if the decoder is not being addressed and seeing as its been mentioned as being important to all of us can you ask if this will ever be addressed in the near future.
I think this is what everyone is waiting for as it will allow us to use this with other components instead of being stuck with the 30k.

Thanks!

Kirby,
If you really want to sell your JVC let me know, I need another one. I think you really need two also, one for backup.

On a 1.5 TB server you could store about 80 movies. That would be fine for a movie jukebox but you would still need to archive to tape also unless you erase the older movies.

Dave

Ok here we go. Weve all been complaining from day one about the decoders and now I guess its skip that as we are on to a PVR.

Ok I read this as the Decoders are not being worked on.

I can see why. 169 can make money on the PVR but working to improve the decoders does not bring in instant money. Its easier to work on something else instead of fixing or improving existing product.

Meanwhile technology marches on and sense the AVX was first introduced there are plenty of other boxes people have in their system but none work with the AVX. We are stuck with the 30k AVX marriage.

The last software drop was a waist. The glitches are far worse. It took 8 month s of complaining to get that. Now we are told to forget anything in the near (which looking at past history means never) future as far as any improvement to compatibility of the decoders. I might as well sell my MYHD card and my Samsung box that work with everything else out there but the AVX.

I see where this is going.

Dave, I monitor this thread, because I AM waiting for AVX-1 to work with other decoders. There is no real point in a pvr until basic fuctions work flawlessly. There is no point in buying this system, period, until basic functions work. I am not buying a stupid tape deck! What you are working on, is marginal to all those but the elite of the elite and the hobbyists. I know you're not the one who going do the main work, but Alan's opinion does not deserve the harsh treatment. His is a very valid point.

I don't care if this is the only thing that will work, if it won't work in my setups.

Darius

"The last software drop was a waist. The glitches are far worse. It took 8 month s of complaining to get that."


Alan- With the Mits2000U and playback via the DTC-100 I have been recording with 08A5 for 2 weeks now. AND, the last reboot of the AVX was on Nov 30th 6PM. The glitches are quite few and far between. There are small 1 frame hesitations about every 90 seconds but unless there is rapid movement in the picture at the time of the double frame you really don't see it. Frankly, I think this 08A5 is a good improvement over 08B3 that was introduced last summer.
After nearly 2 weeks of use, I now give the latest software a thumbs up for exceeding the reliability of my Panny system on connection stability.
I will be switching over to the 6000/HDVR this weekend but won't be testing a 40K for awhile. I may order it next week. Just been too busy to get into another VCR but I will eventually get one. Then I will see if the JVC is as reliable or unreliable as many have claimed.

Don

Im glad you found some improvement in the last drop. Most of us ended up with more freezes and drop outs.
When you say you see 1 frame hesitations that most wont see unless fast motion, it seams we all have some sort of issues with this system.

We waited 8 months for a new software drop that did nothing for most of us and it did not even include the decoder improvement we were all expecting. Now we are told dont hold our breath.

Now Dave says he is the one working on the PVR not Richard and we know Richard is not working on the decoders so I guess thats it for another 8 months.

I dont mean to sound so harsh but this is getting old. That last drop was not worth the 8 month wait. Sorry.

And Dave I dont want to hear about 169s finacial woes. I just spent $1700 of my hard earned money a few months back on something that does not work (6k) so yes I am expecting something for my money.

I think the new version is better also but I need to record some more to be sure. The last three movies I recorded have been glitch free. Most of the glitching I was getting with the new software was when I was using the 160 Fuji tapes. I just started using a box of JVC 300 and maxell 300s. Also the Ilink connection is much more stable.

Alan- I hear ya! I think we are both talking apples and Oranges here.

Explanation- I had a given set of issues with my system and 08B3. That system was a DTC-100 and a Mits 2000U. I won't repeat the list here but lets just agree that I have them well documented and they were consistent issues. Along comes 08A5 and those issues are all but gone! And I mean gone for over 45 hours of recordings that I have reviewed.

So for me, there was a consistent improvement with my system here.

You, I assume have been using a JVC recorder. Let me also assume that the JVC had far fewer issues with 08B3 than I had using the Mits. But it still had some noticeable and all JVC owners were looking forward to those last few being corrected. 08A5 did not demonstrate any significant improvement according to what you say.

I have decided to order the JVC40K on Monday. So, soon I will have one of the JVC's here to test myself and compare with the Mits directly.


EXTRA:
I just completed the retrofitting of the 6000 version of the HDVR this evening and YES, it doesn't work! A quick discussion of the problem with Richard via e-mail has listed the cause as, The current version that works with the 40K for I-Link listing does not work with the MIts 2000U. Only the older 1.6 version of that HDVR was tested to be compatible with the Mits.

He has offered to swap me out for the 1.6 but as I'm getting the JVC anyway, I'll just wait.

Alan, I don't know what I'll find when the JVC gets here but I sure hope it works. If it doesn't, I'm sure Richard will find out why since he told me it should and that my MIts doesn't was not a surprise to him. He knew I had the MIts but I also told him I was planning to add the JVC soon.

So, I suppose if I had any complaint at all I would have preferred to know this before I purchased: Maybe it is listed somewhere on the web site and if so, I'm guilty of not seeing it.

"
1.85 is the current version for recognition by the 40k deck.

A customer with a DTC100 & Mits deckl that had previously been using version
1.6 said that the had trouble with version 1.85.

If desired I can supply you with a board with version 1.6. Although 1.6
will work with the 40k deck, the 40k deck doesn't assign it an I- number nor
give it an on-screen banner, and this can be confusing.

Mini Summary of firmware versions:
1.6 - first version compatible with AVX1
1.7 - no difference for users
1.8 - communication collision with AVX1 for timer recording eliminated so
that AVX1 recording can be used with timer controlled by STB using IR
emitter.
1.85 - allows new Marantz and JVC 40k deck to recognize the STB and assign
it an i- number"



One of the problems I do read in your posts is a general frustration with the information from Dave. Maybe you need to communicate with Richard when it comes to issues you have with your own system rather than Dave. No matter what people believe, it is my opinion that when Dave says he does not work for 169Time, I believe him. Therefore he doesn't speak for them. I consider Dave is self responsible for all he says about 169Time. Did Richard tell you he is not working on anything specific or did you hear that from Dave? About the best I would say for Dave's pipeline to/from us to 169Time is that on rare occasions, Richard will tell him something that Dave posts for all to read. No had line on this but I just believe that when Dave ventures off to experiment around with some home made PVR, it does have nothing to do with Richard's work on AVX improvements.

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
quote: We expect to have an another testing version with more improvements for testing before xmas 2003.

Well if the decoder is not being addressed and seeing as its been mentioned as being important to all of us can you ask if this will ever be addressed in the near future.
I think this is what everyone is waiting for as it will allow us to use this with other components instead of being stuck with the 30k.

Thanks!

Yes. A decoder compatibility update to the AVX-1 is a must. Any improvements in the software that does not include this FIRST would be a waste in time. Being dependent on one decoder (The JVC) is not a good thing.

jeff- were you aware of the upgrades to the HDVR firmware and what they did, as well as the problem with the current one 1.85 no longer supporting Mits VCR's ?

I know another change in the 1.85 allows me to use a firewire card with less than 3 ports.

Dave

Originally posted by Don Landis
jeff- were you aware of the upgrades to the HDVR firmware and what they did, as well as the problem with the current one 1.85 no longer supporting Mits VCR's ?

No I wasn't. Why would he do this? Most manufactures try to ADD compatibility not take away. Maybe he has a good explanation.

My AVX1 stopped working and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas about what might be wrong. All I did was reboot the AVX1 and it spits out the CD. i tried the original CD that came with the AVX1 and it rejects that one also so I don't think it is the software. Does this sound like it might be the CD reader. If that is the case I know I have extras around i could swap out but I don't want to void any kink of warranty I might have.

Never Mind
I had the monitor & keyboard diconnected but I reconnected them. It was giving me a disk book error. I had to reinsert disk and hit enter. This is the first time this had happened but all is fine now. Thanks,

Can someone tell me why the 169Time/avx-1 will not record SD channel streams? I know it's HD only but why; a transport stream is a transport stream..right?? Is there some technical reason --why not?

Rew

Jeff- I'm sure it wasn't intentional. I have suspected for a long time that Richard is incapable of really supporting the Mits 2000 and the fact that it works at all is (my opinion) a fluke and not something he has continued to put effort into. Heck he doesn't even own one and Dave, who has probably the greatesty influence over Richard's R&D efforts doesn't even own one nor has he ever demonstrated a desire to make the Mits a priority.
About the best case effort I see for the 169Time and Mits support is Richard refers people to my website. Unfortunately that document, while most of it is accurate is dated now with much of what I have learned. Considering that 169Time has not made a great effort to deal with the issues od the MIts and has made considerable efforts with the JVC and other hardware including PC's, IMO, the Mits use with the 169Time should continue to be considered a non-supported VCR!

REW452-
Unplug the AVX-1 for OTA HDTV recording channels off the DTC-100. The AVX-1 is not required for OTA ATSC channels. I do that here just fine.


Suggestion to all-
If you are going to post a problem and want a more accurate response, you have to list your hardware and AVX software version. eg- Mine is:

DTC-100/HDVR:1.6 - Mits2000U - AVX-1:08A5

The above format indicates the firmware's version installed in a particular receiver and the configuration chain of the 1394 to the recording device as well as the AVX-1 software version.

Considering that there are now a variety of firmwares, each with different support function and different AVX software out with different capabilities, not posting this will result in answers that may be quite accurate yet not apply at all to your system configuration. I also suggest the same listing when you post an answer. PC people should list the important factors in the PC such as the 1394 connection and the software/drivers in use.

Don, I have to admit. I have never been impressed with the Mits. Richard had nothing but issues with it when he did have one to do the original development. As you have seen, its flaky. And since he could never get any help from the mfg, there really is not anything he can do. I assume you agree it makes much more sense to spend ones time and effort on a product which is better for the average comsumer. And, in my opinion, clearly the JVC is better!!

I clearly would like to see one clean working set of parts, than a lot of flaky ones. And if these are not good enough for everyone, oh well, its sure been good for most.

Now, if MIts were to work directly with 169time to fix their flaky code to be used with other products, then all the above doesnt count. Can you get Mits to work wtih 169time?

Dave

How can I tell what version of the firmware that my HDVR has?

I recently started to play around with writing some software to allow my Powerbook to record directly from the AVX and called Richard directly to ask him some technical questions (I called him using the number on the company web site). He was polite, friendly and also honest about his limited experience with Macs.

It was a pleasure to speak to him and I felt certain that if I needed more help from him that he would be glad to help me.

The 08A5 version of the software seems to have improved a few things such as:

1) More reliable "start up". With 08B3 sometimes I would turn on the AVX and then my JVC deck and nothing would be sent to the JVC and I would have to restart the AVX. I have not had this problem with the new software.

2) Glitches that appear in recordings are MUCH shorter.

3) I have made several glitch free recordings now - even a perfect LOTR:Two Towers - this may also be because of improvements on Directvs side

He usually writes the number on the chip on the board.
The only way I have ever been able to know unless I brought it over to his place.

He does keep a record so he may also be able to do it by your serial number of your unit. You would have to write him.

Dave

fyi

The 1.85 that supports the new JVC 40k and Marantz apparently has issues with the Mits deck.

Most boxes 169 sells the firewire upgrade for need the JVC deck for playback.


fyi

Dave

Looks like I'm still having trouble with the AVX1 booting. I don't think the rest of my equipment is relative to this problem but here it is. DST3000,AVX1, JVC30K with newest AVX1 software. Also tried booting previous version of software with same problem.

What happens when I try to reboot is I get the message disk boot failure reinsert disk and press enter. It keeps ejecting the cd over and over. I tried turning off the AVX1 and rebooting with the same problem. I disconnected the firewire and tried to boot with the same problem again. I turned it off for about 10 minutes and came back and tried again and it booted, which is where I am now. Any suggestions?

Randall-
Visually inspect the CD and look for scratches. Does your AVX consistently boot another CD without issues but does eject the latest one you burned and you see no scratches? Try burning a second one / and try downloading the software again. Something may have become corrupted in the process from download to burn. The last guy who had problems finally saw a scratch on the CD. Always amazes me that many people even "computer experts", think you can use a CD for a coaster, fresbie, and then try to use it for data disk too. !?!?! Ref. to thos that leave CD's just lieing around the desk, pick up leaving finger prints and then stick them in the drives etc.

Dave=
You said: "Don, I have to admit. I have never been impressed with the Mits. Richard had nothing but issues with it when he did have one to do the original development. As you have seen, its flaky. And since he could never get any help from the mfg, there really is not anything he can do. I assume you agree it makes much more sense to spend ones time and effort on a product which is better for the average comsumer. And, in my opinion, clearly the JVC is better!!

I clearly would like to see one clean working set of parts, than a lot of flaky ones. And if these are not good enough for everyone, oh well, its sure been good for most.

Now, if MIts were to work directly with 169time to fix their flaky code to be used with other products, then all the above doesnt count. Can you get Mits to work wtih 169time?

Dave"

First off, we do have a difference of opinion here. Since the Mits 2000U has long performed flawlessly from day one, making and playing back consistently with all brands of SVHS and DVHS tape, has had a statistical record of far fewer glitches and failures than the JVC30K, if one were to call a VCR "flaky", don't you feel it would be the JVC that's flaky? The fact that Mitsubushi has decided to not cooperate with Richard in the Development of the 169Time products does not make their VCR "flaky" The fact that Richard doesn't own one and has decided not to support the Mits VCR does not make the Mits flaky. The fact that the 169Time firmware once supported the Mits in it's own way for (a way in which I have defined for user convenience) and now a newer version is released to improve I-link addressing specifically for the JVC40K which now makes the Mits incompatible, does not render the Mits Flaky but it would seem that the code for the 169Time is "flaky" if one chooses to use such derogatory language. I prefer to state that it simply is not supported!
Contrary to what you said, I have never observed flaky performance of the MIts2000U, NEVER! So lets not have any misunderstanding on that.
As you know, I do not favor the practice of name calling when one chooses to support a particular brand or not support anoth. The reason I had the Mitsubishi in the beginning had nothing to do with 169Time. I basically got it for a price I couldn't refuse. The reason I never bought a JVC30K is because the JVC30K had a history of failing to play even D-Theater tapes and JVC had made changes to try to remedy the problems all users were documenting. The MIts never went through this. IT just worked!

While I do recognize that the 169Time equipment favors the JVC VCR and do admit that JVC design is far more popular, I also understand why. JVC- D-theater prerecorded tapes and has a decoder for playback bypassing the firewire problems. The MIts was never sold as a stand alone, only to be used with their own monitor. The JVC was sold as a standalone and incorporated it's own analog output for convenient trouble free connection.

It is my opinion that the 169Time product, while by chance, working with the MIts is clearly not supporting that VCR, and that 169Time, while acknowledging that you can play back via the firewire connection, the support is clearly in the direction of not using it for playback, but support for JVC VCR and playing back direct. If I understand your definition of "flaky" it needs to be applied to 169Time's ongoing development with changing support and not a VCR that has demonstrated constant consistency in the way it works and the way it performs. It has only been 169Time that has demonstrated a flaky range of changes over the past two years.

Having said that It needs to be understood that 169Time products are an ongoing development and as such should be purchased with the highest degree of "caveat emptor" And, I do not prefer to throw about terms such as "flaky" and "hack" as others have. I prefer to describe 169Time as exactly as I have which is a retrofit aftermarket product that allows recording to (and this is new) JVC DVHS VCR's that (169Time)is in constant development. Those who use such terms, IMO, just want to paint a negative overall picture of the company or product.

As I recognize that 169Time really does wish to NOT support the Mitsubishi VCR as well as the fact that E* has stated the same thing for the 921 upon first release of Dishwire™, I will be purchasing the JVC40K. The reason has more to do with 921 plans rather than 169Time support for it. It also proves what I have been saying all along and that is these 1394 devices have specific in compatibility and one needs to verify compatibility lists before assuming they will work together.

Soon I plan to remove my personal web listing of the MIts directions. It is now much dated and in my opinion most of it no longer applies to the currently market product by 169Time. I will give notice to Richard directly about this decision. Consider this my public notice on the matter.

Don,
Thanks, but I use MYHD-120 for OTA HD recording. I meant SD Sat recording. Non HD recording like SCFI etc...

I wanted to know if there was some technical reason why not??

Toshiba HDVR-->AVX-1-->PC using 8A5 & 8A4 JVC 30K yet to come.

Or are you saying just connect direct to HDVR DCT-100 without AVX-1 to do SD recording??

Rew

SD recording should be done in SD mode on your equipment. Recording SD sat channels on an HDTV recorder offers no HDTV upconversion capability if that was your goal.

Just use the Y/C output for recording to either SVHS or somewhat better quality DVHS _in SD mode_ for all NTSC channels. Use 1394 out for HDTV channels.

Always remember that 169Time stuff is very specific in compatible 1394 devices. And, as I just discovered, this compatibility changes from version to version. You'd be on your own to test the system for SD 1394 recordable signal if it is at all present.

Rew:

Check your PM.

Don,
Thanks for the help, but if you read my post you will see that I said i also tried booting previous version of software which means another disk with the same problem. I doubt both disks are corrupt but I will try burning a new one anyway. If it happens on a new disk i guess i will just call 169time.

Don, I stand by my comment. 169time will support what ever stuff they can get support with. From day one they say the Mits behave very differently than the JVC. So maybe they work well mits to mits, and thats all they want, but, its not as friendly for other stuff. So, if Mits wants to work with 169time, I know they would want to support the Mits also!!

Dave

Dave do you know what improvements are on the list for the Xmas drop?

Thanks!

Randall- Sorry, Missed that you already tried the second CD. If it was not scratched than I think your CD drive is mal-functioning. Check cables and good connections to the board. I know my AVX has a bad PCI bus as the 1394 board is intermittant but I have that issue fixed for now. When it starts to act up, I pull the board and reseat it. We all have our little problems! :(


Dave, I'm just wanting to be clear on what is supported hardware. As I understand the Mits is no longer supported. I really don't care what the reasons were for the decision.
What is supported is the JVC technology which includes the OEM base aka Marrantz as well as JVC40K on the latest HDVR firmware.

Alan, I have no idea and since what I say tends to get me in trouble, you guys will have to get from Richard directly. I cant speak for a company I dont work for.

Don, same comment on decks. I have no idea what he is "offically" supporting.

Dave

Dave

I only asked you because you announced the next drop to be at Xmas.
I assume you talked to Richard or you never would have mentioned this. I would also assume he would have mentioned some of what he is targeting to improve in the next drop but if you do not know or care to share with us we will have to wait for the update and see whats new.
Maybe this one will surprise us all. That would be a great Xmas present:)
Just knowing another update is coming is good news.

Thanks!!

Again, I only posted what Richard gave me. No more, no less.

I no longer will give inside info. You have to get from him.
I will not even pass questions to him. I am tired of being the middle man and getting beat up. You will have to go straight to 169time.

Dave

Dave I dont think anyone is beating you up personally.
I think I speak for everyone here we appreciate your communication with Richard.

Please understand because no one from 169 participates here you are it, so during the rough times you become the target but not personally.

Without you there is no communication and the topic is dead. It will be time to close this thing down.

I also hope you understand our frustration is not at you but the slow progress of the product.

I dont blame you if you no longer want to be the one taking the punches but you volunteered your position and I think Richard owes you a big thank you.
Im sure he appreciates you.

Looking at this from my side and has a customer we have a product that we have no idea what or when the next drop will be. We are told dont expect any improvement to the decoders. It took 8 months to get the last drop which was bare minimum if anything. Not ever sure what if anything came from it that took 8 months.
Now you are bowing out as far as keeping the communication window open for us.

I think its time to remove the whole topic from the forum. Its run its course.
We have no communication from the company what so ever and if it were not for Dave we would not have anything but a bunch of angry customers and it seams they just dont care to make any improvements that we've been asking for forever. I myself no longer have the patients to wait another 6 month for some minor effort while being told dont expect certain things to be addressed.

As a last effort is there anything any one of us can do to help mature the product faster. People have volunteered there time, their software writing skills. What will it take. Is it time to close this down?

Don,
Those are probably good ideas to check the cables and reseat any pci cards etc. The problem now is to get the case open. There is one thumbscrew on back of the case and when removed it does nothing. Their are some screws holding in the power supply but that is about it. I'm sure there is some trick like maybe removing the front cover but I don't see an easy way to do this. Anyone know how to open the AVX1?

Alan, I dont know how you could close down a thread that is the only product that IS shipping and works. We all know you and a few others continue to ask for something that was NEVER sold. And as the post show, many folks are having NO issues. Why your enviroment is bad I have no idea, but I cant believe you would shut down a thread that is helping so many of us.

Looks like I never should have pushed Richard to support the PC platform.
We knew it wasnt perfect, but we thought it was better to give folks things to work with than wait for perfection which was why the first 169time was so late. Come to think of it, if I hadnt pushed him to ship it then when it wasnt perfect, non of us would have ANY of the 169time products.

Oh well, this is why in my job I dont have to deal with the public. I just dont understand how folks can not be thankful for what we have, rather than what we dont like the promised 921.

Oh well, guess if Alan shuts this down, you guys all lose. I just keep doing what I have always done with Richard. Try to make things better the best we can. Atleast he gets paid.

Dave

Alan,

If you close this thread down, people will still be wanting information about the 169time product. Of course I would like to have the avx-1 software produce transport streams that will work with all the decoders, but if you compare 169time to the other recording solutions that are on the horizon, 169time has some unique things to offer.

The competing DVR from D* will have no archive capability, and the competing DVR from E* will have archive capability, but will likely be compatible only with 5c decoders, i.e. no PC's. So by definition, neither of these recording solutions will produce results that can be played with all decoders, especially the MyHD decoder.

If you use the JVC decoder today, avx-1 recordings play well. I'm even getting nearly flawless playback through the JVC decoder with my PC using DVHSTool.

I recommend that you keep the dialog on this product open to everyone. And thanks to Dave for sticking with this project. My 2 cents.

Heres where Im at.

Dave said he is done so at this point we now have no communication with 169 because they wont make the effort.

I dont care what excuses I hear the last drop was a joke considering it took 8 months. On top of that now we dont know when the next drop will be or will contain. So if there is no direction for the next drop that tells me it has not been worked on otherwise Richard would know what he is working on and would be able to tell us what it will contain.

I get a lot of complaints off line. I get legal threats. By hosting this forum I am legally responsible for the what takes place here.
I have aloud this product to stay online for 2 or 3 years. The progress over that time has been very minimal for that length of time. On top of that if we ask whats next we are treated as if they are doing us a favor...we are told dont ask, we never promised this, Im quitting..ect. The whole thing is not only very old but its getting very unprofessional at this point.
We as customers are do and expect answers. Im sorry 169 and Dave dont feel that way.

Just a few weeks ago we were told a new drop would hit around xmas. Now thats fallen to wayside and god forbid if we dare ask what will it include. I mean its only going on a year.

I did not spend my hard earned money to be treated this way.
If this is how the future continues to go with this company then I do not want to support it here.

So I will ask one last time. Is there a drop coming around xmas time or does anyone know anything else that gives me and others hope that something of effort is on its way in a timely manor. No excuses just a simple answer.

I would like to see some progress made. This could be a great product but it needs to be polished. Its so close but I cannot let things continue the way they have been going.

Alan,

I agree that progress on the avx-1 software has been slow. I don't consider the last drop of software a joke myself, because I am getting nearly flawless PC recording/playback that I didn't have with the prior version. It would be great to get a new software drop by xmas, though.

I don't know what kinds of pressures you are facing regarding 169time, but your opinion carries more weight than anyone's around here, and 169time should pay attention. Competition in the satellite recording hardware market is around the corner. I think it would be a good marketing move for 169time to perfect its system to meet that competition.

In my way of thinking, I see this thread has divided into two major categories-
1. Those of us who wish to discuss the technical aspects of getting the 169Time / AVX system to work and how we can help each other achieve that goal.
2. Mostly Dave but a few others too who are interested in marketing the 169Time products as a representative/ rep/ zealot/ enthusiast/ alterior motive etc. but primary purpose here is to promote the product sales itself. also in this catagory are those who posted to rebutt the marketing efforts of the company and posting other non-technical hate statements generally called bashing.

Here is my suggestion to resolve the conflict-

Lets kill this thread here but bury it in the archive section so people will still be able to look up important posts.

Then, Allan, as the owner of this forum, I'd like to see you instruct the moderators to strictly enforce any purely marketing style posts on this as well as any other product by employees and zealots with some new rules. I would trust the mature judgement of Ken as he has demonstrated an extremely level head in past rules enforcement when called upon to make a decision especially in those gray areas. Obviously he has not been everywhere and considering the loose enforcement in the past has allowed much stuff to just slip by but that can change if you feel a hard line approach needs to be enforced for the future with a zero tolerance policy. It just needs to be enforced without prejudice which can be quite difficult.

So let's say we not ban technical discussions on getting things to work and users sharing ideas as well as not ban talk like, "I heard that 169Time plans to release a new..." etc etc just like we have in other threads on other products.

To keep things focused there should be multiple technical discussion threads on the AVX and 169Time. Those wanting to discuss PC recording issues using 169Time would offer up a thread for just PC recording and the thread starter should self police it to keep it civil and free from marketing posts. Recording using AVX and Dish could be a separate thread, AVX and DirecTV or Mits recorders could be a special thread. There would be NO thread allowed for the express purpose of marketing the 169Time products nor would posts like that be allowed in the technical discussions.

Then as a final idea to resolve this:
If you decide, Allan to have a strict no marketing policy in the threads with a zero tolerance, then maybe a special section opened for "Press Releases" for companies wishing to make announcements on new product releases. Another forum I belong to has a program like this and they enforce a 90 day rule. Meaning that a product can be PR'd once every 90 days but after the second PR update it must go to market before any additional PR's mentioning the product. This would prevent a post on something like the 921 extending for 2-3 years before market release. The PR's also have to be done by an authorized rep of the company and the moderator verifies the PR's as official before they appear.



There is no really good answer because there is a huge gray area. One immediate conflict I see is the posting of new products we see at a trade show or at your dealer. Once again a judgement call by the moderator will need to prevail. IT is a huge gray area and everyone will need to understand that. WE all want to learn about and help each other work with new and buggy products but we don't want a single individual hijacking threads to promote the competition whether they be a rep or zealot.


Last Summer I tried an experiment in the DLP forum IT was a thread I started to discuss ways that Owners could share ideas on how to improve their use of a particular projector. AS there were many threads with This vs. that shootout I decided that this sort of discussion would be banned in "MY" thread and asked for all to cooperate. WE had a few who tried to hijack the thread but I as well as many other "Owners" quickly invited them to leave and start their own thread which many of us participated in. The experiment worked as a few others started their own "Owners" threads too. Plus we still had the this vs. that threads and it now seems to work. The product bashers were obvious and they were just ignored or told to leave. I don't believe we ever needed moderator enforcement so I believe that technical only discussions can work in this section too as long as reps and zealots will cooperate and the technicians will respect the exclusive technical nature of their own discussions.

Randall- Re the AVX case assembly. I have one of the first AVX products they built that uses a conventional ATX style desktop box. Easy to open. I know they had several designs so why don't you just call Richard on the phone and ask him to be sure. I know my Sony Vaio tower case is like an Egyptian tomb that I once thought of hiring Laura Croft to help me open it until I found the secret hidden levers. :)

Alan, as I said before. You should just get your money back!!! Why anyone keeps a product they are not happy with, well,.

No different than the JVC30k. How many times did they tell us, me, it was fixed? And is wasnt. The 165 still doesnt work correctly if I read correctly a lot of post. The 811 sure seems to be having issues. And the 921 is more than 2 to 3 years late and counting.

So, you have to do what you have to do. I have never been interested in anything other than the techincal and helping others out. No more, no less.

Dave

Topic being ignored.

Dave you mentioned a new drop around xmas. Can you confirm a new software update will indeed hit us sometime around the holiday season or first of the year.
Im looking for some hope and a reason to keep this going.

Thanks!

Originally posted by h2ofun
Alan, as I said before. You should just get your money back!!! Why anyone keeps a product they are not happy with, well,.

Dave

Is Richard offering money back?? I have had my AVX-1 and 3 firewire cards for over a year. One firewire card is only several months old. Can I get my money back as without a fix for other decoders I can't use this equipment?

Does he re-inverse for the installation of the card if he or a dealer installed it?

My AVX died, I'd love to get my money back!

Thread closed until further notice.

fyi

169time.com is currently expending and investing considerable resources to develop improvements in the robustness and compatibility of the AVX1's performance via an update to the AVX1 cdrom disc. The updated software will be first sent to testers and then released when proven out. The current target date to supply an update to testers is Dec 31, 2003.


fyi

Dave

This is great news with which to celebrate the reopening of this thread. The tried and true "time out" disciplinary technique even works with AVS Forum threads. Amazing!

Yeah, Isn't Alan a great Dad;)!!!

Great news Dave and 169Time:)!!!

This sounds good! I want to just make it clear that we do want the Decoder compatibility update as it is very important. Richard has done a great job in making it more reliable however any recordings made with it in this current state (even if the tapes playback flawless using the JVC decoder) are flawed and will never play correctly with other decoders.

Is the decoder compatibility planed for this update?

Dave,

Do you need any testers? I have a MYHD card in my computer as well as the 169time AVX-1, DTC-100 and JVC30k.

Thanks,
Mike

In case anyone is interested the problem with my AVX1 was the CD drive. I swapped it out with another one and it works perfectly again. I tried reseating all the connections first with the old one but no change. Thanks for the help.

In case anyone is interested the problem with my AVX1 was the CD drive. I swapped it out with another one and it works perfectly again

Is this a case where an out of warranty unit could be sent to Richard and he would fix it?

Yes, I talked to Richard and he suggested I try swapping the CD drive. He also said if I wanted to I could send it in and it would be repaired under warranty. I didn't really want to be without it for that long and I had a spare CD anyway.

Considering these things are nothing more than basic computers, I would think it be fooli$h to pay shipping to send the AVX back for a $20 CDROM drive swap!

One additional thought, make sure your older CD-ROM is bootable by the computer's bios. Some of the older drives weren't recognized. If you run into a problem, that may be the reason. Best to talk to Richard on what restrictions he may have built into the AVX too. Things keep changing on these AVX systems compared to what I have from the early days.

I am considering selling one of the HDTV recording setups on EBay.
It would include a 169time dtc100 with HU card, dish5000 with modulator and card, and a Victor DH35000 DVSH deck. Any idea what this setup may be worth?

Dave

Does anyone out there have the 921 yet?

I just want to know if the firewire output is active so you can record
to a DVHS vcr in True High Definition.

Don,
Thanks for another good suggestion. I thought I had it fixed but the problem came back after the cd swap. I could not boot it at all with either cd. I have had some bad memory before so I thought I would try swapping that out. Believe it or not it helped but still did not fix the problemtotally. After the memory swap it would boot, but only with the original 169time disk and not the newer version of software that I like better. I tried putting the old cdrom back in and it still did the same, it kept ejecting anything I would put in.

After I read your above post, I canniblized one of my newer computers and took out a DVD burner and tried it. It worked great. Hopefully it will continue to. I guess I will buy a new cd drive to put in as I need the DVD burner. It sure did boot a lot faster than the old ones.

larryhdtv,

There is one forum member that is a beta tester and has a 921 and has used since a week ago last Friday, I believe. The firewire ports are NOT ACTIVE. There currently is no way to dump to the DVHS with the 921.

He posts in the Denver HDTV tower thread. Look for him there.

Jeff

larryhdtv
Please read the threads on the "921" which are well titled, both in this recorder section and the hardware section. This thread is about the AVX technical stuff. As Jeff said, one AVS mamber has one and is probably the only beta member who has a special NDA to allow discussion of the beta version. AS of Friday, 19th the 921 was released but given the weekend, all units are still in shipping. The 1394 aka Dishwire™ is in the current 921 software but is not active yet. It is targeted to be released in March or sooner via software upgrade. Unlike the 1394 in the AVX/169Time products, the Dishwire™ is not a direct record firewire port but rather a way to dump the content programs off the 931 hard drive to the DVHS VCR for archival purpose. The way it does this (procedure) is not yet made public.

Thanks Don & Jeff for the info.

I'm am giving VOOM a test drive.
Looks pretty good so far.

If Richard can convert this box to be able to record H D it would probably make him a small fortune.

I personally would give up Directv & forget about the 921 & use the VOOM service because of all the "HD CONTENT" 29 channels so far & going up to 39 channels in Feb 2004.
The price of the content is also far less money as well.

The only catch is you have to purchase the box up front for $749.00
I'm on a free trial till the end of Feb.04,then I can get a refund back on the box if I decide not to go with the service.

The VOOM box is hard to get the cover off (special security screws).
I spoke to Richard & he said he has no bit for it & the only way to get into it is to use a vice grips. Of course if Richard cracks it open & can't put back the original screws & it can't be modified for HD recording then I guess the box is yours to keep.
You'll then be out of $ 749.00 & either live with the service & can't record HD.

Does anyone know if Richard is in the process of working on a VOOM box?
Last time I spoke to him about a month ago,he told me he had one on order.

He will not disclose anything until it actually is available.

I was gonna send mine into him,but I'm worried if he opens it the screws won't be able to be put back as they were originally.

ANY FEEDBACK ON THIS SUBJECT PLEASE KEEP ME INFORMED.

Thanks

If Richard has one on order, you can bet he is working on it. Currently he says the same thing to me. 169Time HDVR isn't compatible with Voom STB. But he added, that is his standard response to everything he hasn't yet got working.

No screws have ever stopped me from getting into any box. I've even used a carbide drill bit for the hole and screw extractor tool. Even spot welded points can be drilled out. But as you say these measures require warranty busting!

I plan to get into the VOOM thing if Dish and D* drags their feet on some of these new channels. However, while I will pay the MSRP for the 921, I will not pay that for the VOOM stb. I will wait until that box sells for $199 which is the current price for the second one. Once they begin charging for the programming in March? I suspect the hardware will drop into place where it should be.

Hello Don
Did you find out if a 921 is avail yet for purchase thru a retailer?
I'm still may consider getting one if they activate the firewire ports so
I can archive if the hard drive gets full to DVHS.

It would be kinda dumb to come out with the box without having the ports
activated. People already waited a long time for it to come out.
I bet if they had interchangable Hard Drives for the 921 that it would not be cost effective rather then dumping to DVHS.

I also heard that there is a promotion for I think $650.00
for the 921 for new customers.
I also go onto the Satellite guys forum & read about this place called
Roberts tV service in Boulder,Colorado & a lady named Carol 303-443-9440.
So this is why I may still consider this.

I also was able to speak to the corporate offices at Directv about Voom & they said they were up on it.
Next time Charlie Chat or Tech Forum is on (i usally watch it over my brother-in laws...since I don't have it)I will try to get a live call in to them about VOOM & they would have to scramble up some more channels.

Don did you know that Voom is running the free trial to Feb?
If the box goes down to $ 299 ,then I'll wait before I become a official subscriber & hoping that Richard can convert it.

BTW Don
I NOTICED BY USING A FLASHLIGHT THAT THE VOOM BOX
HAS A PROVISION FOR A HARD DRIVE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE UNIT &
A EXPANSION SLOT ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
dvr COMING SOON ?

Larry-
I would love to answer your questions but you need to realize that this is a thread for AVX technical discussion. You may PM me or post these questions in the proper thread and I'd be more than happy to answer some of your questions and misinformation you have.
No problem as I see you are very new to the forum. We try to keep threads organized to a particular topic around here. You can delete your out of place posts with the edit / delete option if you want. One sidetrack Q/A is usually acceptable most of the time but followups tend to go down the road of what we call thread hijacking.

Subject: Follow-up : Need help getting the AVX-1 working with C-Band 4DTV receiver/HDD-201 and Mits HD-2000U DVHS Deck. Page 87, post 1740

I am SUCCESSFULLY recording HD material using the HDD-201 with 169 time equipment and the Mits DVHS deck.

SETUP: Need two 4 pin to 6 pin 1394 cables. Recommend a computer monitor to watch the AVX-1 output data to make sure all is working OK.

HDD-201 (Mod 1.8) > AVX-1 (Software 8B3) > Mits DVHS Deck

1. Hook up the 1394 I-link cables.
2. Turn on all equipment except the AVX-1.
3. Turn HDTV to the HD channel you want to record. Peak signal as needed.
4. Turn on the AVX-1. This will immediately put the Mits DVCR into a digital record mode. (No "error CP" messages)
4. When the AVX-1 is streaming good TSEC numbers... (check monitor)
5. Hit the record button on the DVCR
6.Enjoy your recording

QUALITY: I have done about a dozen tapes so far and am VERY VERY HAPPY with the results. Visual - pixelation occurs all the time (1 to 6 pixels every few seconds randomly scattered over the screen; however you only see this if you have a solid black background (white pixels). I DO NOT see this watching the normal color picture. Audio - You get one second or less audio dropouts five or six times on a 2 1/2 tape using DVHS tapes. With SVHS tapes these dropouts double. Again this does not distract that much from the film. If you were not listening for it you could miss them. I've noted that some, but not all, of the dropouts are on the original source.

Merry Christmas to all and 169 time.


Jim Jackson
Cuba, Mo.

I was having a recording problem but I had made an error and everything works fine now. So, never mind.

I want to thank Richard at 169time for providing excellent service on a holiday weekend no less. Thank you:)

Originally posted by h2ofun
fyi

169time.com is currently expending and investing considerable resources to develop improvements in the robustness and compatibility of the AVX1's performance via an update to the AVX1 cdrom disc. The updated software will be first sent to testers and then released when proven out. The current target date to supply an update to testers is Dec 31, 2003.


fyi

Dave

This thread has certainly been quiet. Is there a progress report on this update?

Well, it's 1-1-2004 and I thought we were going to have a new AVX1 code release, anyone seen it?

For what its worth. I recorded NATIONAL SECURITY from HBO HD. Played it back last night. Flawless.

Originally posted by mikey mo
For what its worth. I recorded NATIONAL SECURITY from HBO HD. Played it back last night. Flawless.

Bet it won't play correctly on any other decoder but the JVC!
All the recordings I do with the AVX-1 playback perfect on the JVC Deck using it's decoder.

Originally posted by jrichards
Bet it won't play correctly on any other decoder but the JVC!
All the recordings I do with the AVX-1 playback perfect on the JVC Deck using it's decoder.

Actually, I'm a MITS guy. Recorded to a dedicated MITS. Played back via firewire from a second MITS to my MITS 73711.

Looks like we may have another decoder that works. That makes Two. Any others?

I think I saw it mentioned that you can take a Powerbook with VLC and stream the 169time HD transport stream files from it to one of the firewire capable tv sets and the playback is fine. That would imply that some of the TVs are compatible with the 169time transport streams.

Jeff-
3.

1. DTC-100 with either 1394 Mits or the JVC via 1394
2. JVC DVHS VCR with component out (well, my experience ( less than 3 weeks) here has been less than the DTC-100 quality with Mits VCR)
3. Mits as reported from MikeyMo

Originally posted by Don Landis
Jeff-
3.

1. DTC-100 with either 1394 Mits or the JVC via 1394
2. JVC DVHS VCR with component out (well, my experience ( less than 3 weeks) here has been less than the DTC-100 quality with Mits VCR)
3. Mits as reported from MikeyMo

Take the DTC100 off the list. Use of that decoder causes the micro glitches every 2 to 5 minutes as reported many many times.

Good decoders means Perfect playback.

Still only 2.

What is your definition of a "Micro Glitch" I defined the artifact in the DTC-100 as a single frame hesitation about one every 90 seconds. Most of the time I ignore it and don't even notice it. I recorded two back to back movies yesterday AM. The Flash Gordon and the comedy following, Clifford. Playback via the Mits thru DTC-100 had only 2 glitches in both movies. But, I suspect these were tape quality related since I was using a DF420 with well over 75 passes, probably over a hundred. The two major glitches were complete blackout for a good 15 seconds where the original OTA channel surfaced. So if we can agree it was a tape related issue then does that qualify as "perfect"? The same tape played back in the JVC40K shows macro pixels about one every 10-20 minutes for a few seconds in duration.

I just want to understand what some people's expectations are witb all this stuff. I'm beginning to think I am a very tolerant person.

Originally posted by jrichards
Take the DTC100 off the list. Use of that decoder causes the micro glitches every 2 to 5 minutes as reported many many times. I agree, the DTC-100 is a much better decoder for avx-1 streams than the Hipix or MyHD, but it does not equal the JVC 30K. I get small micro glitches with the DTC-100 decoder at a similar frequency whether played back from the PC with DVHSTool or from the JVC 30K.

What I find interesting is Don's report that the JVC 40K decoder does not work as well for decoding avx-1 streams as the DTC-100 decoder. Is there a significant difference between the operation and/or quality of the JVC 30K and 40K decoders?

Steve- I use the JVC 40K by itself or with the DTC-100 and both exhibit more artifacting in the same tape than using the MIts 2000U connected to the DTC-100. I can now say this is true for recordings made with the JVC or the MIts. Frankly, the Mits' plus side is it is a very robust VCR but lacks in features and ease of connection with the AVX. It works but the JVC is easier to set up. Nothing is 100% but I find the Mits and DTC-100 combo yields the best PQ results once connected.

Seems to me that my 40K records with fewer glitches than my 30K. In fact in watching 3 movies(so far) recorded on the 40k I haven't seen a glitch yet. I really need more experience with the 40K to be sure.

On another note I see glitches whenever their is a bright flash(explosions or lightning etc) using the DST3000. This is not a recording problem as I see it on the original source material. Is this a problem with the STB or a lack of bandwidth. I have assumed it is lack of bandwidth but I don't have experience with other STBs.

Don,

Since my results using both of my JVC 30K decoders with the A5 software are mostly glitch free (no micro glitches), I think there could be an issue with your 40K deck, or the 40K deck is somehow different than the 30k. Maybe there is an issue with the 40K transport mechanism.

Steve- It is possible that my 40K is the one and only defective ones. I seem to have that sort of luck if you believe the CSR's I talk with. "Gosh, you are the first one in over a thousand customers who has had a problem!" Yeah, right! I really believe they staffed a whole CSR group just sitting around waiting for Landis to call. Who do they think they are, Maytag? :) But really, I think all these issues are a collection of <perfect from each of the devices we use added up to one visual output.
Until one develops a procedure for scientifically documenting all the defects and where they were sourced from, not just by casual watching, and then does a statistical analysis of the data we really don't have a handle on what the source is from. All we can do is make a lay observation of consistency for overall degree of perfection. So, when I state that the Mits DTC/100 combination is rather glitch free compared to the JVC40K / DTC-100 then I mean it as something significantly better. Also, considering the track record of the MIts vs. JVC, we know that most of my SVHS tape recordings are problematical, yet all play fine in the Mits. All these things tend to indicate to me without the need for analyais that the JVC is probably more sensitive to tape quality than the Mits. Heck, I have even had some limited success in recording HDTV to Std. VHS tape. Had a few breakups but my Panny PVHD1000 would'nt even do anything except black. Haven't tried it on my JVC and probably won't.

Don,

As I have said before, my playback performance of (A5) avx-1 streams through the JVC30k decoders is excellent whether I use DVHSTool or Fuji ST-120 SVHS tape in the HS mode on my JVC30k's. Based on your observations, I would have to think twice before "upgrading" to a JVC 40K. That's the value of this forum.

Of course all these observations will change again once 169time releases the next version of avx-1 software.

It's known that the decoder in the DTC 100 will NEVER Playback AVX-1 tapes flawless in it's current state. It's been discussed so many times here. I can't stand the micro freezing. Also anyone who comes over to see my system always asks "Why does the picture freeze like that?" Also this video freezing is more then one frame. The audio always playsback fine.

I know some members standards here are not as high as mine so that may be why some are saying they get perfect recordings when in fact they are not.

I have tried playing back the AVX-1 recordings with the Mits, Panasonic, and the JVC decks through the DTC100 FW and they all show this microfreezing. The JVC is the worst and the Panasonic is the best.

Steve- Seems very strange that a year ago these JVC30K's were laden with many issues. I refused to buy a 30K specifically because of all the problems so may were having. Let 12 months go by and now the 30K is said to be perfect. Cool! Maybe I just need to wear mine in for a year. :)
I take it, Jeff you are not having any more problems with all your 30K's either?

Jeff- I'm very certain I know what a single frame hesitation is. I work with them all the time in the edit suite. From years of experience of frame insert editing, I can pretty much judge a single, 2, 3 and 6 frame stutter in video. So when I say it is single frame, I would put mioney on it. In a static shot, it will never be noticeable but in a fast L2R or R2L pan it becomes an issue than many will see and often on fast pans will be jarring enough that the non- experienced editor will assume far more frames of hesitation than what really occurred.
I have now completely removed my Panny system from the HT. I may sell it or donate it to charity but it is gone from the rack so no more experimentation with Panny!
The hardware removed was the PVHD1000, TUDST50, Techniques DD decoder, and when the 921 arrives, I will remove the 5000/HDTV modulator as well.

I made this decision because in the past month with the new release of A5 169Time software the Panny system offers no more advantage here in flawless recording than the 169Time with the MIts. So far the JVC40K is just a problem with tape quality that I was never all that concerned with on the MIts.

And, a reminder that the days of the Mits/169Time are numbered as well. In case any of you weren't aware, the latest upgrade of the HDVR from 169Time no longer works at all with the Mits DVHS VCR. I had quite a chat with Richard about this. Still have some experiments to do but if you are looking to use a Mits DVHS VCR you need to avoid the latest firmware version 185. However, if you use a JVC40K you will want this version as the improvement allows the 40K to be recognized in the I-List. It works in prior versions but, like the Mits, it has no listing in the 40K I list.

As I said before, I need to do lots more taping with the 40K and playback in that same 40K to know for sure. Plus I want to test the Flawless FujiST120's too. New ST120's may work much better than a 75 to 100 pass DVHS 420 recorded on the Mits.

Don makes some interesting points. I recall how it seemed like everyone was having trouble with the 30K (even after it was sent in for repairs). Indeed, as I recall, Jeff had serious problems with 12 out of 13 of the machines.

The other is the robustness of the MITS. I have made hundreds of routine S-VHS recordings on and played back on the MITS w/o issue. The next minute I use it for HD. Then there is JVC which promotes both the 30K and 40K as (also) being S-VHS machine, but warning not to use S-VHS tape in the digital mode w/o explanation as to why not.

What a great hobby we have.

Don,

All tapes made with the AVX-1 are flawed to the point that they will NOT playback on any other decoder except the JVC and now maybe the mits without video problems. They won't even play on some decoders at all.
If you are archiving tapes to keep then you will not have a good copy. The tapes made with the 5000/ Modulator are perfect and will playback on ANY system.

The AVX-1 is not a good solution for archiving until it can make perfect flawless tapes like the dish5000/ Modulator can.

Also playing back AVX-1 recorded tapes with the Mits deck connected to the DTC100 will show the 1 to 2 frame freeze about every 1 to 2 minutes just like you state however The JVC connected to the DTC100 will show several (3 or more) frames freezing every 2 to 4 minutes and the Panasonic Deck will show several (3 OR more) freeze frames every 3 to 8 minutes. They are all a little different.
So using the Mitsubishi deck with the DTC100 the problem is hidden better then the other decks so maybe that's why you think this is a Good solution for archiving. Also thats why you are not having very much luck with the JVC.

Try playing the tapes recorded with your Panasonic 5000/mod solution using the JVC/DTC100 and you will see that your tapes will playback perfect. If they don't then you do have a problem with your JVC which wouldn't surprise me and is another good point as to why the AVX-1 software needs to be made to work with more decoders.

I have done many hours of testing with many DTC100 units and many decks using many configuration to try to convince myself to use this solution for archiving. The end result is the AVX-1 need more improvements before I will call it a good solution and use it. I like many others hope Richard can fix these problems so we can use the system as intended.

mikey mo,
My 4 JVC decks I currently have are still working. tic tic tic ...

"The JVC connected to the DTC100 will show several (3 or more) frames freezing every 2 to 4 minutes and the Panasonic Deck will show several (3 OR more) freeze frames every 3 to 8 minutes."

I agree withg the above except for the Panasonic part which as I recall it was not an issue playing back from the Panny through the DTC-100.

The JVC40K does not play older Panny recorded tapes (SVHS grade) as well as either the Mits or the Panasonic decks.

The major shortcoming of the Mits recorded AVX tapes now is that they do not play well on the Panny VCR. In addition, the shotcoming (for me) is that the Panny is not compatible with other recording sources I have or will have. I agree with the statement made by others that it is an obsolete technology VCR and will not be supported. I only ever had one bug issue with the Panny system and that is it would lose 1394 connection when left for more than 18-34 hours for a timed recording. Refreshiong the connection was a constant requirement here for assured recording.
The AVX, even with A5 still has a biffer time out after about 10-12 days. It took awhile to come up with a pattern but that has been the experience here over the past month.

I am convinced that all 1394 recording is flawed to some extent. "Perfect" recordings don't exist when looking at repeated use. I also believe that the JVC is less tolerant of tape quality than the Mits or the Panasonic.

BTW- I was watching an SD program on Dish last evening and it had over 40 micro glitches in the live feed that I counted in 15 minutes.

I later watched some discovery HD and there were a few microglitches there too so some of these may be as a result of the source signal.

That also shows that these final glitches are difficult to determine the origin.

Currently, the actual quantity and severity of the glitches here are no more annoying than the occasional defect in DVD's I rent so as one who IS more tolerant of this stuff than many on this forum, I am enjoying the toys and having fun!

Jeff- I guess you still have HBO and Showtime HD on the Panny, right? Maybe CBS HD too. That's all I've had for the Panny 5000 setup for some time. FWIW- I have been using the AVX on the STC-100 to time shift more movies lately on HDNetMovies channel than anything else.

Well, I did it! I ordered the Toshiba 3000 from 169time and I will build an AVX-1.

I have 2 JVC 30K's to use, and I can't wait!

I just can't hold out for the HD Tivo, and I do look forward to finally being able to watch HD on my schedule...I can't remember the last time my wife and I could sit down and watch an HD movie from start to finish. (Two young kids at home!)

Wish me luck, and any advice is always welcome.

Thanks,

EJ

Originally posted by Don Landis
Jeff-
3.

1. DTC-100 with either 1394 Mits or the JVC via 1394
2. JVC DVHS VCR with component out (well, my experience ( less than 3 weeks) here has been less than the DTC-100 quality with Mits VCR)
3. Mits as reported from MikeyMo

1. In my experience with the AVX-1 recordings, the DTC-100 playback reliability is conditional. I've found the D* recordings from the DTC-100 play back 'perfectly' in the sense that I don't notice picture breakups, micro-freezes, or audio dropouts. However, the E* recordings from the Dish 6000 have glitches/micro-freezing almost once a minute on the DTC-100 decoder, but rarely with loss of audio.

4. The Elecard software decoder (and most other soft decoders) on a fast HTPC. FWIW, I've made some flawless DVDs of AVX-1 recordings. The software MPEG decoders are very forgiving. I'm optimistic that some software could process these streams to make them compatible with all the hardware decoders. For anyone looking ahead to making Hi-Def WMV DVDs of your AVX-1 recordings, you have nothing to worry about.

5. (unconfirmed) The Roku Labs HD1000 HD Digital Media player.

-Dylan

First of all,
Happy New Year, Everyone!!

I have been gone for the past couple of weeks, so it has taken some time to get caught up on all of this.

And since my Ecost order for a referbed 30K was canceled due to lack of units I have to wait for a DVHS recorder. $$$ you know.

But anyway, what I get out of this is the DCT-100/AVX-1 seems to have some flaws in it or in the software v0.8A4/0.8A5. AKA Firewire interface!!! This assumes that the DCT-100 converts the stream correctly in the first place. I believe it's function is more of a parallel data to serial converter; then to a firewire protocol for export to the AVX-1 for formating the stream with time stamp and byte info necessary for the firewire video standard.

But my own experence using a mod-ed DST-3000, 1.3ghz based AVX-1 and a PC (2.53ghz AsusP4PE), DVHSTool with a MYHD-120 for playback has been much the same as those of you which use a JVC 30/40K or MITS recorders; so given this I really think the firewire interface or the way it is being used is the root cause.

I have asked several time before is there any Software Tools too...????????????????

1.) Examine the mpeg stream being received from AVX-1 for flaws.

2.) Some sort of firewire utility to examine the data exchange and driver setup.

3.) A real DCT-100/AVX-1 WinXP driver.

4.) Lets also use either a software decoder or settle on a Hardware one such as MDP-120(100, since many people seems to have one as well as me but I think we can get more tech help from them than JVC or MITS.

If we can perfect the PC record part since this should be somewhat easier to debug then the recorders should come easily.

Come on folks I have seen what appears to be some good hardware and software people in this group can't we analyze and fix this??

I am willing to help where ever posible.

Rew

Don,
I don't use the Panasonic recording decks anymore. I have been using the JVC 30K and DTC100 OTA.
These tapes recorded with this setup playback perfect on all of my decoders and decks.(JVC,DTC100,Panasonic, computer etc...)
The AVX-1 recorded stuff has flaws. I sure wish they didn't.

The more I read your comments I think you have issues with your JVC deck. I had 12 bad 30K decks in the beginning. My current crop of 4 JVC decks playback all my Dish5000/Mod recorded tapes perfect using the DTC100 or the onboard decoder.

I'm not sure what equipment you use however I rarely see glitches while I watch live HD stuff and SD stuff. I can't stand freezes and glitches. I think one small glitch is acceptable. Any more and it is just too distracting.

I have thousands of perfectly recorded tapes using the 5000/mod. I have no perfect recorded AVX-1 tapes (unless you count playback on just the JVC using the JVC decoder).

All 6 of my Panasonic decks have the issue I discussed earlier using the DTC100. Hook yours back up and you will see.

Dylan,

I would like to see one of the D* tapes you recorded with the AVX-1 that playback perfect on the DTC100. Maybe look at that one again.

The Dish 6000, BEV 6000 and the DTC100's all work the same as far as the AVX-1 glitches. I have had plenty of these units here in the shop and they ALL worked the same.

Bottom line is If you don't mind using just the JVC as the playback decoder then great. I don't like the idea of making archive tapes with this flaw. I don't want to have to re-encode and re-compress them to fix what should be good in the beggining.

Any word on the new software? I just dropped back in after a long time away, but it doesn't look like much has happened.

I just picked up a 30 k for $250.00 at Best Buys.
No remote ,manual,or anything just the actual vcr.
Only thing is that it has to be sent to JVC for a free upgrade,at no charge.
Some of the earlier serial numbers needed a firmware upgrade.

By the way I have been recording perfect recordings using the 30k ,avx & PSHD-105. I have a 2 Jvc 30k units.

I may be selling my AVX & PSHD-105 real soon,thinking of getting the 921.
Anyone interested in purchasing I will offer both for $ 700.00 or best offer.
Buyer pays shipping.

Originally posted by larryhdtv
[...] it has to be sent to JVC for a free upgrade,at no charge.
Some of the earlier serial numbers needed a firmware upgrade.Does anyone know what serial number started getting the new firmware? Put another way, what were the serial numbers which need upgrading?

Thanks

Hello Peter
Contact JVC at 1 800 252 5722 press 2 then press 2 again ask for repair
service dept, or press 0 for the operator.
Tell them the serial # and see if it applys.
They would have to look it up in their database.
As far as when the bad serial #s started only JVC would know.
Good Luck

Originally posted by larryhdtv
I just picked up a 30 k for $250.00 at Best Buys.
No remote ,manual,or anything just the actual vcr.
Only thing is that it has to be sent to JVC for a free upgrade,at no charge.
Some of the earlier serial numbers needed a firmware upgrade.

By the way I have been recording perfect recordings using the 30k ,avx & PSHD-105. I have a 2 Jvc 30k units.

I may be selling my AVX & PSHD-105 real soon,thinking of getting the 921.
Anyone interested in purchasing I will offer both for $ 700.00 or best offer.
Buyer pays shipping.


Thats awfully cheep! The 169time recording system isn't perfect however it's worth more then that. Richard will get around to fixing these issues. When that happens these units will be worth even more. the DTC100 and the 6000 can't be flagged to downrez whereas the 921 can be.

I purchased 4 JVC units from ecost when they had their referb special. I only had one bad unit that I returned for a new one. They are all working perfect. I paid less then $300 for each including shipping. You also got a great deal. I never use the remote that came with the units. I use my timer remote. I don't think you will miss the factory remote. Get the AV producer 8 remote. It has an easy timer function for recording to boot.

hello jr richards.
do you mean that the newer set top boxes like the 921 can be flagged?
Please explain what you mean.
I think i read a little about that where the signal is encoded.
If that's the case I may just keep my 169 set up.

I'm hoping Richard can convert a VOOM box like the pshd-105 I had done.
D & E has a lot of catching up to do as far as HD content compared to VOOM.
I was able to email some photos to Richard of internal photos of the VOOM box which I found on the Satellite guys forum website.
Maybe after Richard analyses these photos it may be able to be converted
for HD recording.
btw you got a good deal as well on your 30ks.
did you have your units firmware upgraded or when you bought them refirbished it was already done?

Originally posted by Rew452
First of all,
Happy New Year, Everyone!!

I have been gone for the past couple of weeks, so it has taken some time to get caught up on all of this.

And since my Ecost order for a referbed 30K was canceled due to lack of units I have to wait for a DVHS recorder. $$$ you know.

But anyway, what I get out of this is the DCT-100/AVX-1 seems to have some flaws in it or in the software v0.8A4/0.8A5. AKA Firewire interface!!! This assumes that the DCT-100 converts the stream correctly in the first place. I believe it's function is more of a parallel data to serial converter; then to a firewire protocol for export to the AVX-1 for formating the stream with time stamp and byte info necessary for the firewire video standard.

But my own experence using a mod-ed DST-3000, 1.3ghz based AVX-1 and a PC (2.53ghz AsusP4PE), DVHSTool with a MYHD-120 for playback has been much the same as those of you which use a JVC 30/40K or MITS recorders; so given this I really think the firewire interface or the way it is being used is the root cause.

I have asked several time before is there any Software Tools too...????????????????

1.) Examine the mpeg stream being received from AVX-1 for flaws.

2.) Some sort of firewire utility to examine the data exchange and driver setup.

3.) A real DCT-100/AVX-1 WinXP driver.

4.) Lets also use either a software decoder or settle on a Hardware one such as MDP-120(100, since many people seems to have one as well as me but I think we can get more tech help from them than JVC or MITS.

If we can perfect the PC record part since this should be somewhat easier to debug then the recorders should come easily.

Come on folks I have seen what appears to be some good hardware and software people in this group can't we analyze and fix this??

I am willing to help where ever posible.

Rew

Rew,
If you can watch the RCA/AVX signal through the JVC component ports and if there are no glitches then the RCA-AVX transport stream is ok. The problem is most likely induced by the capture filter (both when recording from JVC to PC and directly to PC). I have found the old Leszek1 TSPCAP filter to be more or less glitchfree as compared to the modded filter in DVHSTOOL. If you want to analyze the transport stream, may be tsreader might help.

Originally posted by larryhdtv
hello jr richards.
do you mean that the newer set top boxes like the 921 can be flagged?
Please explain what you mean.
I think i read a little about that where the signal is encoded.
If that's the case I may just keep my 169 set up.

I'm hoping Richard can convert a VOOM box like the pshd-105 I had done.
D & E has a lot of catching up to do as far as HD content compared to VOOM.
I was able to email some photos to Richard of internal photos of the VOOM box which I found on the Satellite guys forum website.
Maybe after Richard analyses these photos it may be able to be converted
for HD recording.
btw you got a good deal as well on your 30ks.
did you have your units firmware upgraded or when you bought them refirbished it was already done?

Yes... The 921 can and will be flagged for copy once, copy none etc... Also they have the ability to downrez the 1394 output.

I don't think Richard can tell if he can do anything from photo's. He would have to get one in his shop that is hooked up and working. Don't hold your breath on a Voom solution coming out anytime soon. Look how long it took for just the satellite recording. He worked on it for over a year after the announcement of the product. The bugs are not even worked out of the current product. He also promised to fix the current product before developing other solutions.

My decks came with the updates already done. I think the one that didn't work was missed in the update process.

BTW, I'm selling my setup. It's not because I've given up on it, but because I need the bucks to keep afloat. I have the modified DTC, a JVC 30K which hasn't shown any of the problems other folks have had, AVX-1, 10 lightly used D-Theater tapes, 20 150 D-VHS tapes and a few 420's, and cleaner tape. I'll sell it all for $1300 plus shipping costs.

Dean, if you decide to split it up,I need another JVC30K deck. Let me know.

Marc.

Sorry to hear you had to bail out, Dean...

Any news of a new software update , or has Richard abandoned us all? Withe the imminent demise of the Dish 5000 /modulator, I would think that there are plenty of people thinking of taking the 169time plunge. A new improved software update would definitely help.

Marc.

Works fine for most people today as is for what is was officially sold as.

:o)

Dave

Well if it was 'officially' sold as a way to record HD from satellite with the occasional glitch every half hour or so, I guess it works fine then :) I'm not saying I'm not happy with my setup, but I could be happier if Richard worked the glitches out of the software. It works perfect for me on some channels and others are a different story. Watching these same channels without the 169time yields perfect playback,yet recording yeilds some glitches, but I guess I should live with them, right? I just bought another 169time setup to record Dishnet so I'm hoping I have better results than I do when recording Expressvu networks.

Marc.

Anyone that is having a glitch problem has either an environmental problem ( wiring, or bad wiring or filters) or a problem with either the DTC100, AVX-1, or the JVC 30K. My environment was always good ( I moved my system from one room to another, and still got flawless recordings, but I had a problem with glitches, and sent my equipment to Richard and JVC for evaluation and repair). I suggest to anyone with problems to do the same. The results could be a flawless recording from any channel, with no problems using the DTC 100's timer recording function for either on or off-air, and using the same I-link and the AVX-1 for both.

Hi Dave: What's the current software revision number. I've only had one update so far. Have I missed any?

Bob

Jay, if it was hardware or enviromental, then how come I can record certain channels flawlessly and others (such as ABC-E or ABC-W HD on Expressvu) are full of glitches??? I can watch them OK, but there are glitches in the recording. It's definitely a software problem! If there are microstutters in the original stream, then the AVX1 can't recover quiclky enough from the error and makes it worse than it was originally. This has been admitted by Richard himself:

"08A5 has the following intended improvements:

1) Not increase the duration (picture & sound freeze) of digital errors
that cause resyncs."


If it wasn't a problem, why would it be the #1 reason for the last software update??????


Marc.

Originally posted by jay koz
Anyone that is having a glitch problem has either an environmental problem ( wiring, or bad wiring or filters) or a problem with either the DTC100, AVX-1, or the JVC 30K. My environment was always good ( I moved my system from one room to another, and still got flawless recordings, but I had a problem with glitches, and sent my equipment to Richard and JVC for evaluation and repair). I suggest to anyone with problems to do the same. The results could be a flawless recording from any channel, with no problems using the DTC 100's timer recording function for either on or off-air, and using the same I-link and the AVX-1 for both.


The tapes made with the AVX-1 will only playback flawless using the JVC's decoder. Using the DTC-100's decoder results in glitches. Using the samsung decoder you will not even get a picture.
The AVX-1 recorded tapes has flaws however the JVC decoder masks them.

Dave,
I see you still are not answering the direct question again. If you don't know if Richard will do an update just say so. Don't dodge the question by stating your standard answer "Works fine for most people today as is for what is was officially sold as".
We all know that's how you feel now.

Do you know if Richard has made any progress?

Originally posted by Robert Cobler
Hi Dave: What's the current software revision number. I've only had one update so far. Have I missed any?

Bob

"08A5" Latest release to fix long glitch problem. Works glitch free here on JVC Decoder only.

"08A4" Works glitch free here for JVC decoder only. Glitches in the original program are multiplied and make the recorded glitch much longer.

Roku HD1000

I have seen this product floating around before in an ad and it is also being shown at the show over in Las Vegas ~ I'm wondering (because of the HD component pass through) if a firewire work around (i.e. 169time mod), could bring this out for HD recording possibilities....

Comments on the possibilities anyone??
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRODUCT: http://www.rokulabs.com/products/hd1000/index.php
SPECS: http://www.rokulabs.com/products/hd1000/specs.php
PDF: http://www.rokulabs.com/products/hd1000/roku-hd1000-specs.pdf

With the 5000/modulator combo biting the dust soon, I'm looking for alternate ways to record HBO/SHO via DirecTV. How is the 169time solution for recording directly to PC now? And is the resulting file then readable by a Hipix or MyHD card? That compatibility problem is what's kept me from jumping into the 169time product up till now.

The Janus chip based cards (e.g.: HiPix) still have lots of hiccups during playback.

PC software players (like VLC, Fusion, DVHStool) are the most forgiving if you don't have a JVC for playback.

BTW: I doubt the Roku would be much help here unless maybe the decoder in it turns out to play AVX1 streams well... Component pass through wouldn't get re-encoded to MPEG2, so would never show up as an IEEE1394 *output*.

Basically, what happens is that Hipixes absolutely will not play the streams well. MyHD 120 sorta does this video "cramp", especially at pans or flashing. It is roughtly about 1 per 3 minutes on average, but the cramps are bunched so you'll have good playback for awhile, then lots of glitches, and then some more stretches of good playback. The audio is generally unaffected.

A Fusion is very watchable. The simply repeat a frame, or freeze momemtarily. Much of the time, it can be hard to tell that a glitch has occured. Audio in just about all cases is unaffected.

Darius

I've been lurking here for over a year & finally decided to jump in & post my experiences with the 169time solution. I have been so pleased with the recording results (first using a Mitsubishi recorder & recently one of the refurb JVC's) that I quit purchasing DVD's because of the poor pq in comparison with the AVX HDTV recordings. I have been using a whole bunch of "Scotch" S-VHS tape that I bought (at that on line auction place) for real cheap. I also occasionally use new tapes, but they have to be pre-ff & rw to avoid glitches at the beginning of recording. Occasional I get glitches, sure, but it looks like some posters are letting perfection be the enemy of the VERY good. Keep it up, Richard.

fyi

On about December 17,2003 I wrote

"169time.com is currently expending and investing considerable resources to develop improvements in the robustness and compatibility of the AVX1's performance via an update to the AVX1 cdrom disc. The updated software will be first sent to testers and then released when proven out. The current target date to supply an update to testers is Dec 31, 2003."

That message listed an estimated target date for the benefit of people that
test our software. 169time.com's policy is to not provide estimates of
when new products or updates will be released for shipping. 169time's policy is much different from many other companies that make products supporting HDTV. This could be a source of confusion. Other companies announce a date for product shipment. 169time announced a target date for a new software version for testing. Notice the distinction Testing date is not the same as shipping date.

This was not an estimate of a new update release. Instead it was a target date for beta testing to begin after a particular stage of development, i.e.
invention.

Internally to 169time we found that as of Dec. 31 the software being did not provide sufficient improvement and needed redesign. This redesign requirement moves forward the target date for beta testing.

The current target date to supply redesigned software to testers is January 31, 2004. This is not a date when the software will be released. It is an estimate of success in the completion of the invention process to the point where others would be permitted to test it. Ultimately the goal is to ship an improved version, but 169time.com policy is to not estimate when that will happen. We will announce it is available when actually shipping.
Announce means we will put it the 169time web page and ship it as an update.

It is incorrect to characterize the stated target date in any manner other than that specifically stated. There is no moral, legal, or contractual obligation on 169time's part to provide the update. The updates are provided for the benefit of HDTV recording enthusiasts, and 169time.com has, through prior updates, shown that 169time has been and is willing to devote the reources needed to invent these improvements. This is because 169time likes HDTV and likes being able to watch HDTV on our own schedule, as do our customers.

169time's current products and software that are already shipping are already working in many installations allowing recording of HDTV that no other product provides for both consumers and professionals. We constantly receive feedback from customers that are very pleased with the perfect HDTV recordings, and from professionals in the motion picture industry that also love 169time since it is the only means available from them to record their own work from satellite broadcasts and share it with others at a time other than when it was broadcast.
fyi

Dave

PVR ~ What I'm interested in is "The possibility's of Tapping Off Those Component Pass-Through's" ~ Like Richard does with his Mod on the DirecTV Mod units. None of those units have Pass-Through, this is the 1st unit Ive ever seen that has Pass-Through of a Component HD Source. Sure there are Firewire Pass-Through, this seem different.

Another intersting item is there is a HD MPEG2 Hardware Decode Engine in the unit and looks like The Roku OS - Open media platform uses the Linux kernel, I think the AVX is also in Linux.

I'm not saying it would work, I'm saying could it work. To tap off the Pass-Through, or off the mpeg2 engine on the internal pc board and add a Firewire port, and link it to a (i.e. to a JVC HD Recorder/PC HD Capture Card .etc)
Unless electronic tinkerers like Richard says no without even looking at the inside of one of these, then there is always hope, no??...some day there will be a workaround made, we all want one, THEY don't want us to have it!...we all know who the "THEY" is!

Dave,
Thanks for the update. Some of us are very happy and are patiently waiting for future improvements. 169time has shown a commitment to improving the product and that is why I decided to take the plunge and purchase their system. Thank Richard for those of us who appreciate his hard work.

I am also very curious about your DVR development that was mentioned a while back. Are you still working on the Linux "combined" package?

Thanks,
Kevin

What I'm interested in is "The possibility's of Tapping Off Those Component Pass-Through's"The term "Pass-Through" is used when an MPEG-based device will directly connect an input to an output without processing. In other words, uncompressed video stays uncompressed while being passed through the device. This is really nothing more than a "switch" diverting a signal from the pass-through inputs (instead of the MPEG engine) to the outputs.

What Richard modifies are devices which receive an HD MPEG stream which is already compressed. The Roku can only get a compressed HD MPEG stream over a network connection (some other device on your home network must be able to send it the stream). Modifying the Roku would only allow taking an HD MPEG stream from a network connection and transferring it to firewire. This can already be done with unmodified computer hardware & software, so no benefit to modifying the Roku.

The Holy Grail is a consumer electronics (i.e. affordable) device which would compress an uncompressed HD video (and audio) signal. Broadcasters use devices costing tens of thousands of dollars to do this. I won't hold my breath for this since motion picture and television program producers would oppose this vehemently.

I finally installed my Roku today and other than having the SPDIF coax noise with my B&K Ref 50 (as others have), it is playing my 169time recordings made direct to PC just fine! Works very very well for me.

Another way of re-itterating what PeterD just said is that the Roku doesn't have an HD MPEG2 encoder, so it would not be able to turn uncompressed analog component signals back into IEEE1394 compressed digital streams.

It doesn't make sense to consider a 169time board for a Roku device.

Originally posted by PVR
... Roku doesn't have an HD MPEG2 encoder ... Damn, PVR, you managed to boil my post down to 7 words (6 if you'd omitted "HD")! :D Now why couldn't I do that!? :confused:

Thanks for the update Dave!
In the past Richard has shown he can make things work. I know he will fix the decoder incompatibility issue. These things do take time and can take even longer to identify the exact problem that is causing the issue.

Like I said before Richard has made the AVX-1 more robust and recordings made with the AVX-1 playback PERFECT here using the JVC decoder. Am i looking for perfection? No however being able to playback the AVX-1 recorded stuff on other decoders would make it closer to perfect. I don't think any of the recording equipment out their is close to perfect. Look at the JVC 30K deck and all the problems they had at the beginning. They are still not perfect however it can make perfect recordings. The New 921 is not even close to being perfect. Look how long they have been working on that.

Bottom line is when Richard makes the AVX-1 recorded stuff playback on more decoders it will be a big plus for people who already own his equipment and it will also bring him in more business from new customers especially now that the 5000/Mod's are going away on Dishnetwork. Lot's of people are waiting for 169time equipment to work on PC hardware decoders (Hipix and MyHD etc...). BTW these hardware decoders are not perfect ether.

Originally posted by jrichards
Like I said before Richard has made the AVX-1 more robust and recordings made with the AVX-1 playback PERFECT here using the JVC decoder. Am i looking for perfection? No however being able to playback the AVX-1 recorded stuff on other decoders would make it closer to perfect.


jrichards


Is the biggest gripe people have with 169Time setup with a 169Time modified RCA DTC100, JVC 30K and the current AVX-1 software when recording DirecTV satellite programs (HBO & SHO films):


1. that they have scheduled recordings that fail to fire on time, and\or, audio and video problems with their recordings when played back on the same JVC deck's component video outputs;

or

2. that the recordings are not playable problem free on equipment other than the JVC deck that made the tape originally?


Murray Kerdman

jr Richards:

I've had one update, which I believe makes my system A0803. I looked on the website for A0805, but did see any mention of it. Kindly tell me how to get the A0805 version. Thanks.

Robert Cobler

Thank you Dave, for the inventors' update. I can wait until Jan 31, since I'm still figuring out all the wonderful stuff that emanates from having a good ole 6K/AVX/30K combo. I can reliably record any SAT/OTA HD signal. With DVHSTool and a host of other software (HDTVtoMPEG2, ELECARD, AC3filter and DIVX), I can make nicely compressed video files viewable on a laptop computer.

My next goal is to use the Remote Desktop feature of XP Pro to execute a DVHSTool restore/archive session while I'm away on a trip. Unlike setting a timer, DVHSTool should allow one to remotely start and stop recording from anywhere since the DVHSTool/XP PRO computer can control the JVC 30K tape transport functions.

Heck, if the Mars Spirit Rover had XP, it could remotely activate a recording session on my setup. But alas, those JPL folks seem hooked on MAC stuff.

Originally posted by Robert Cobler
jr Richards:

I've had one update, which I believe makes my system A0803. I looked on the website for A0805, but did see any mention of it. Kindly tell me how to get the A0805 version. Thanks.

Robert Cobler

If you have had one update then you have A0804 which should work. It will make recordings playable only on a JVC Deck using it's decoder. The A0805 address the long glitch problem.
I don't know where you can get the new update. You might have to call Richard. I would just wait for the next one.

What is "(The A0805 address) the long glitch problem"?


Murray Kerdman

jrichards


Your PM box is full.


Murray Kerdman

Originally posted by mkerdman
What is "(The A0805 address) the long glitch problem"?


Murray Kerdman

The A0805 version fixed the problem when you record and the feed gets a small glitch the recorded glitch would remain small. The A0804 version would turn the small glitch into a much larger one.

Is the biggest gripe people have with 169Time setup of a 169Time modified RCA DTC100, a JVC 30K and the current 169Time AVX-1 software when recording DirecTV satellite programs (HBO & SHO films):


1. that they have scheduled recordings that fail to fire on time, and\or, audio and video problems with their recordings when played back on the same JVC deck's component video outputs;

or

2. that the recordings are not playable problem free on equipment other than the JVC deck that made the tape originally?


Murray Kerdman

Murray,

I would say that it's more #2 than #1, at least from what I've read here and from my own experience with this setup.

Originally posted by DHarp193
Murray,

I would say that it's more #2 than #1, at least from what I've read here and from my own experience with this setup.

DHarp193

Are you able to set a timer and reliably make problem/glitch free unattended recordings of HBO & SHO movies form D*, or, is it always a bit of a crap shoot that leads you to need to review the tape before adding it to your library?

I haven't had really any problems whatsoever setting timers and getting good recordings that play OK on my 30K. I don't have another decoder to test whether it plays OK on those. I haven't checked every recording I have yet, but the ones I've seen have been good. I usually have to at least un-plug the firewire cable from the AVX-1 to the JVC in order to play tapes due to some sort of RF interference without blocking and glitching. Sometimes I also have to power down the AVX-1 in order to get it to play right.

As a matter of fact, the AVX-1 has really helped me in one area. My local FOX station through just the DTC-100's firewire to the JVC does not record or pass the audio for some reason, but when I route it through the avx I get the sound correctly and can record the program to tape. That helped immensely this weekend when I recorded my EAGLES improbable comeback victory over the lowly Packers:D!!! 4th and 26 Baby:)!!! Who's the team of destiny now!!!

None of the above.

I would say it's the Decoder incompatibility.

Tapes made with the AVX-1 will playback perfect on ANY JVC 30K deck not just the deck that recorded it.
They will not playback properly on other decoders.

I use an external timer so my timer recordings work perfect. I read that others here have had great luck with the 6000 / DTC-100 timmers also.

Originally posted by jrichards
None of the above.

I would say it's the Decoder incompatibility.

Tapes made with the AVX-1 will playback perfect on ANY JVC 30K deck not just the deck that recorded it.
They will not playback properly on other decoders.

I use an external timer so my timer recordings work perfect. I read that others here have had great luck with the 6000 / DTC-100 timmers also.


jrichards


If I assume have a DTC-100 or 6000, why do you use an external timer and what type is it?

Originally posted by DHarp193
That helped immensely this weekend when I recorded my EAGLES improbable comeback victory over the lowly Packers:D!!! 4th and 26 Baby:)!!! Who's the team of destiny now!!! [/B]

The Carolina Panthers.:p


Willie
Forlorn and Embarrased Cheesehead

Not without Stephen Davis!!! Have a nice offseason there cheesehead:D!!! I never knew Eagles liked cheese so much:confused:

I just got my AVX-1 (built myself) up and running with my new Toshiba DST-3000. Can someone tell me the easiest way to make timed recordings?

Do I need to have the Toshiba control the 30K? I know there is no way to set up a timer record on the 30K (I don't think there is a way to select firewire as the source)

Thanks!

EJ

Has anyone heard if Macro Images MVS-500 http://www.mitinc.co.kr/mitinc/e_site/prod/prod_mvs500.jsp will actually convert

Looks interesting. I wonder what this cost and is it shipping. Is it available here in the states.

HELP!

I've got my Dish 6000 169time setup up and running, and everything seemed fine. Now I've hit a major problem of some sort. I've been leaving my AVX1 booted longer than I normally did with my Bell setup. Usually I would turn it on for 2 or 3 hours at a time. Now I've been leaving it on all day since there is more on Dishnet worth recording. After about 4 hours, the audio drops out completely and I have to reboot to get it back. Any ideas what is causing this???


Marc.

Marc
It sounds like some sort of momentary drop out ether in the Dish signal or the AVX and the AVX cant make the recovery.
Try unplugging all your cables and power and hook everything up freash again to see if that helps.

Alan Found one place listed on the internet that says they have them. But they aint cheap. Spec's say that you can put component in and Firewire out. I would like to if it realy works though. Check it out below.

http://www.digitalssinc.com/store/customer/search.php?substring=mvs-500

I put my order in!!! I can't wait to get it:D!!!

I'll report my findings when I receive it in about 2 weeks:)

My only wish is that it had a digital audio input:(

Originally posted by DHarp193
I put my order in!!! I can't wait to get it:D!!!

I'll report my findings when I receive it in about 2 weeks:)

My only wish is that it had a digital audio input:(

What was its approximate cost if you can say?

Also, I agree that no digital audio input is a major drawback. However, I can't imagine this being a component D/A converter with 1394 format conversion, so this is probably moot.

Please post your findings!

Originally posted by Compromise
What was its approximate cost if you can say?

...However, I can't imagine this being a component D/A converter with 1394 format conversion, so this is probably moot.


I received Manufacturer accommodation discount pricing of $1800.00. Not much under the retail, but I felt worth it for what it does. I certainly hope so anyway:rolleyes:

What do you mean by the second paragraph when you say...

"...However, I can't imagine this being a component D/A converter with 1394 format conversion, so this is probably moot."

P.S. - We should probably take this to a new thread or PM since it isn't really on topic.

Check over in the video processor forum for more discussion of the MVS500, I don't believe the fireiwre out is for anything more than HD OTA, the real beauty of this device "MAY" be in its 1080i to 1080p scaling.

Lon

I would like to scale from 1080i to 1080p entirely in the digital domain with my HTPC, but the support for HTPC deinterlacing, especially with 3:2 pulldown removal, appears to be very weak if not nonexistent at this time. Since most new HD recording systems will not be PC friendly, I am looking to my 169time recordings as a source for my future deinterlacing efforts.

With the upcoming demise of the Dish 5000/modulator, I'm looking at purchasing an AVX1. I have the opportunity to purchase a used one along with a DTC100. What would be a good price for this combo?

I'm sure others have complained about the same things but I'm gonna add to the list. I would absolutely buy a 169time system at its current price if:

1) It was available for newer D* receivers. The E86 and the DTC100 cannot display 720p. Yes I know, the firewire mod will output raw 720p transport streams, but that doesn't help me when I want to watch 720p material without recording. Having an additional dedicated "recording-only STB" is not only a waste of an LNB (which I don't have access to more than one per room), it's a waste of money. An additional HD receiver adds a huge cost to an already very expensive mod, for what are already overpriced satellite receivers.

2) It could output SD transport streams over firewire (and the AVX1 could convert it to a DV stream or something). That would be huge. HTPC PVR software could work without using a picture degrading analog capture card (which then degrades the picture much more by recompressing it). I'm not interested in a STB DVR when I already have an HTPC that's much more than capable of performing the task- if it were allowed to. Furthermore, the HTPC could be used as a processor scaler for the display device, thus negating the need I mentioned in complaint #1.

Originally posted by Lifter

2) It could output SD transport streams over firewire (and the AVX1 could convert it to a DV stream or something). That would be huge.

The 169Time mod for the Dish 6000 will output SD transport streams. It does not convert to DV. Although I haven't confirmed this, theoretically you can demux the TS to PS, convert to VOB, and burn to DVD pretty painlessly.

-Dylan

Originally posted by Lifter
I'm sure others have complained about the same things but I'm gonna add to the list. I would absolutely buy a 169time system at its current price if:

1) Yes I know, the firewire mod will output raw 720p transport streams, but that doesn't help me when I want to watch 720p material without recording.
.

Lifter:

If you connect the component out of the JVC 30 or40K deck to your display device you can watch the 720P material without recording which is exactly how I watch ESPNHD or ABCHD in 720P

Lon

Really, I didn't know the JVC could output 720p. Interesting.

Lifter:

The JVc30K can output 480i,720p, or 1080i.

The JVC can output 720P if the tape originates in that resolution or the program you are recording is in native 720P.

It cannot downconvert 1080I material to 720P upon playback but it can up convert 720P to 1080I or downconvert everything to 480I.

Alan:

I was actually referring to the broadcast material, if its 480i,720p, or 1080i that is how the JVC30K can output it.

Yeah, but the 169time/AVX1 won't send it 480i, so you have to switch inputs everytime you want SD, plus you get no guide or menu overlay when watching the HD channels, correct?

Everything on my DTC100/AVX setup was working great. Then last night I went to record something, and couldnt get a data stream out of the AVX. This is 169time built AVX, not my own.

When I boot everything up, the DTC tuned to a HD channel, and AVX all powered up, I connect a cable between the 2 units. The AVX screen goes from "Looking for HDVR" to "stopping" then I get this error:

ohci1394.o: SelfID received outside of bus reset sequence

Then it starts back with its "Looking for HDVR" again.

So I tried to hook up just the DTC and my JVC deck, and tried to change to the I- number, but it couldnt find any. So I am wondering, did my HDVR die? What else can I do to test this? I've tried to completely power down all units (did for 8 hours) and when I hooked everything back up, same errors/symptoms. Find it hard to believe that I got a power spike, since all of this is running off a big UPS. Am at a loss now, need assistance, very important recording session tonight on HDNet Movies :D