Have at it.

I have copied PVR's original post in his topic, which follows, and will close it to prevent any further problems.


"h2ofun" had started an old 169time techincal status topic which he later deleted. When he deleted his starter post the forum removed the 100s of useful followup messages.

I am starting a new one with the promise that I will never delete the whole topic.

This intent of this topic is for techincal discussions including trouble reports. If you want to bash the product, or flame a forum member then please go to this topic:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...threadid=183945

To start things off I will describe the basic 169time components and a brief mention of current issues.

169time makes the HDVR100 board that goes into an RCA DTC-100 box so that the HD datastream can be passed along over 1394 ("firewire") connectors.

With their 1.6 firmware in the HDVR100 many people have been able to record OTA ATSC broadcasts received by the DTC100 then on to various D-VHS VCRs.

The AVX-1 product is a small Linux based PC that acts as a "data fixer" to allow the premium HD satellite channels (such as HBO-HD, SHO-HD and HDnet) to be recorded onto D-VHS tape.

The basic data path is:
DBS Antenna -> DTC-100 -> HDVR100 -> AVX1 -> D-VHS VCR.

There are 3 main brands of D-VHS VCR that have been used with the 169time products: JVC, Mitsubishi and Panasonic. People have had different issues with the different VCRs so you should mention which brand you are using if you are reporting issues in this topic.

The main issue that people are seeing now is added "dropouts" (picture or audio glitches) and/or recordings that stop part way through when recording from HBO-HD or SHO-HD.

Various "band aid" fixes have been suggested to improve the situation. Among these are:
1> Ferrite beads on the IEEE1394 cables.
2> Inline amplifiers on the DirectTV satellite feed.
3> Inline "Pads" (attenuator) on the DirecTV satellite feed.

Thanks, Ken I feel your effort is the simplest one to add insurance that technical information will not be lost due to deletion of the starter post.


In your opener, I would like to offer that with the AVX-1, the official support is for only two DVHS VCR's-
1. JVC 30K
2. Mits 2000U

3. The Panasonic PVHD1000, while supported with the HDVR retrofit to the DTC-100 was not supported with the AVX-1.

The second issue I have is that to my knowledge, no one has ever actually tested the "solid ferrite beads" for reduction of RFI on the 1394 cables. Implementation of "solid Ferrite beads" component would be quite difficult. Rather, I suggested the use of the broadband ferrite toroids that are designed to wrap the 1394 cable as a split toroid, plastic encased that will snap together. The "ferrite beads" have been referenced in the old thread but no one actually documented how they had implemented them. When asked, these people claiming to use the beads were actually using the split toroids.

Just an FYI- Ferrite beads refer to a surface mount chip like component that is soldered in series with an active conductor to filter high frequency RF while passing lower frequency signal. They also refer to the tiny toroid like device that will slip over the tiny jumper wires within a circuit. From this, bead manufacturers designed a split core toroid of much larger design that could be wrapped around a cable of conductors where connectors on the end prevent a large bead from being slipped into place. These became knows as the RFI Ferrite split toroid choke which is what most were using.
Use of large solid toroid beads could be uses if the core is large enough in diameter to feed the connector through and then the 1394 cable is wrapped several times around the ferrite torous. Original Panasonic 1394 cables that came with the PVHD1000 used this approach. It was klutzy but worked.


Here is the Radio Shack part number I originally offered:

Catalog Number: 273-105

These work well snapped over most IEEE1394 cables.

If one wants to use a split toroid over the AVX-1 power cable, I suggested a source from some old computer monitor VGA cables that often used them with a larger design. I scarfed one of those from that source and it was a perfect fit on the AVX-1 power cable.

I ran several tests documenting the effectiveness of placing an RFI toroid choke at each end of the FW cable that runs between the AVX-1 and the VCR as well as the cable that runs between the VCR and the DTC-100/HDVR connection. Later I demonstrated in my system that only the connection between the AVX-1 and the VCR actually required the toroids for elimination of RFI intrusion into the system during record.


The AVX-1 operation was shown to be especially sensitive to RFI while in use during record. Several sources of this RFI were reported in the old technical thread- I made a list of these:

1. 2.4 Ghz wireless phones
2. TV Monitor Horizontal sweep oscillators
3. Microwave ovens that are leaky
4. Digital cell phones
5. WAP Wireless access points in the 802.11 LAN specification
6. Wired ethernet switch in vicinity and/or wires from it running in proximity of the AVX-1 system
7. Broad spectrum RF such as brush motors, electric drills, Vacuum cleaners etc.
8. Open or leaky computer CPU's
9. Nearby high power Radio and TV broadcast transmitters.
I'm sure there are others but this was my list.

I specifically tested a 900Mhz telephone as well as some 900Mhz wireless microphones and these were not affecting the AVX-1 at all.


AVX-1 installation- Early on we also documented the need to place the AVX-1 a reasonable distance from the VCR and DTC-100. We found problems when the AVX-1 was located above, below on either side of the VCR. Locating it a measured distance of 5 feet between the components and feeding with a 6 ft FW cable allowed the offending issues to be eliminated.


__________________________
It was also documented that there were specific normal DTC-100 operation functions that would cause either immediate or chronic signal destruction during the recording when the AVX-1 was used.
These operations include anything that interrupts the continuous and contiguous data flow from the HDVR 1394 connection off the DTC-100. Examples of these functions would be channel changing of any type, menu access, or guide access. Our recommendation was to not connect the AVX-1 cable until one is set ready to record, and then connect the cable from the AVX-1. Once connected, the only user function that should be executed is the record button on the VCR and when done recording, the stop button. Then immediately, disconnect the Firewire from the AVX-1.

Their is a time delay that is required to allow the AVX-1 to stabilize after FW connection that may take between 10 seconds and 20 seconds or fail. In order to know for sure the AVX-1 is ready, I suggest one connect a small VGA monitor to the AVX-1 and watch the operation proceed. When it is converting the data the readings will indicate that and you will then be allowed to connect the Firewire to the VCR to proceed. Adding the monitor to the AVX-1 greatly improves one's success in the initialization of the system.

___________________

Several members have used the channel selection feature on the JVC VCR to allow the FW cable to be connected by software but those using this method have not had consistent success as I have experienced using the hard wire disconnect procedure.

Many users have reported the need to boot the AVX-1 prior to recording but I have done extensive testing on this and I am not convinced this is necessary when the VGA monitor indicates all is normal with it's operation. When the monitor indicates a stack overflow, system freeze, or other strange readout of data, I reboot to get it working normal again. This has happened only in cases of know outside issues acting on the AVX-1 such as power brownouts and leaving the FW connected to the system while violating the known DON'Ts on the user function list. All other times the AVX-1 appears stable to the same extent as my windows2000 computer!

As I think of more AVX-1 technical tests and conclusions of the early beta period I will post them.


____________________
Timer recordings using the AVX-1
Internal DTC-100 timer recording was not supported in the beta release of the AVX-1. We tested and had excellent timer recordings using an IR remote control supporting timed event control on a single channel. Due to the chronic disruption of the AVX-1 when executing a channel switch, we never were able to get the remote control timer to execute a two event recording with channel switch from one HD channel to another without record destruction on the second record event.

___________________________________

Summary- many issues reported above are similar between the JVC and the Mits VCR. The difference is in the initialization and stability of the two VCR's with the AVX-1. There was a documented procedure where the FW could remain connected on the JVC and operation was stable. I won't comment further on the JVC as there are many who have had success with that VCR and those should report what has worked consistently well for them.




Note- All my early testing was performed using a Mitsubishi DVHS VCR and with DirecTV HBO HD, HDNet but not Showtime HD. Later I ran confirmation testing on the Showtime HD channel and did not notice any new issues with that channel vs. HBO HD or HDNet.

I wonder if this summary thread ( my words ) should be tacked to the top since it looks like a pretty comprehensive summary of current status and no one else has seen to post in this one yet.

Jeff

Talking to Richard tonight, as he is working on the s/w, he is asking me to collect some data from folks on features, priorities, etc they would like to have.

Things that have been brought up in the past are (in no order)

stability of signal for HBO/SHO and HDnet
Serial port data (what mean and need for?)
display only error info on avx-1 screen
timer
Send the data to hard drive on Windows XP machine
Ability to make own avx-1 computer
etc?

Dave

#1: stability of signal for HBO/SHO and HDnet
#2: Send the data to hard drive on Windows XP machine
#3: Ability to make own avx-1 computer

(Combining #2 and #3 such that a WinXP computer could do the processing nessary to capture the data directly from the HDVR-100 would be very nice.)

Maybe when Leszek perfects the DVHStool filters he can write an AVX-1 replacement as a WinXP filter component?

Any news on the AVX-1 as a PVR device front?

Dave,

#1 Stability of Hbo, Showtime, HDnet (including Ch199 PPV HD)

This means immediately recovery from the unavoidable data stream irregularities/errors.
We need the new improved software for the AVX-1 asap.

#2 Timer recording

Thanks,

Steve

So here is a sneak peak of the web site that is being worked on for 169time. It is NOT ready to be published but I thought I would put the link out and get inputs from folks. Should this type of format replace whats there? If so, what inputs can you give as to content, etc.

Again, this is not ready for prime time for technical accuracy!!!!

Look forward to hearing so good technical inputs for improvement.


www.h2ofun.net/169time/index.html


I forgot about PVR. I know it can be done since I already had done it while he was in development. Its just he is not sure if enough folks would want since now it would have to be linux since this is whats running. We were hoping Dan Dennedy would make the PVR linux control s/w but looks like he got busy on other stuff. Now, if someone wants to work with Richard on this. Unless, since I could grab the file from my XP box from the Linux box, I guess a control interface could be made in Windows. PVR, you ready to work with RIchard yet?


Dave

- Stability of signal for HBO/SHO and HDNet

This is priority 1, 2, 3, and 4. If you don't have that, what's the point of the other stuff?

- Serial port data (what mean and need for?)

This is not a requirement. It was a suggestion I made. There are two things you could do here.

1. Simple one is to just echo the status messages out the serial port at maximum speed, no handshaking. If people have problems, it could be captured easily to computer and send in for diagnosis.

2. Better but more complex, provide a control protocol through the serial port, or through the ethernet port if it has one. This would allow the device to be controlled via control systems, to power it on and off, get its status, etc... This would allow people who have a control system to monitor it without having to have a monitor dedicated to the AVX, and to help with automatic recording jobs by being able to power it on and off, and make it do other things it might do in the future, via the control system.

stability
timer
pc

"display only error info on avx-1 screen "
No!

I would hope that the above would be user selectable only. I use the avx-1 screen now to advise me when things are ready and stable. I would not want a blank screen until there is an error. I don't want the AVX-1 to just tell me when I made an error in operation. Now it tells me things are ready.

Since stability was the single most common complaint, I think the efforts in the next software release should concentrate in this fix. Once that has been achieved, other features that are not yet supported can be worked on. I think the next software release should be offered as soon as the tests indicate that the stability issue has been resolved to the track record of OTA recording. THEN, after that is field approved, especially by Dean and a few others who have been the most vocal, an upgrade of the software that offers additional features can be put in the works. Let's not confuse upgrade of features with fixing something fundamental that is broken.

Dave- I just glanced at your proposed web site design for 169Time. It looks much better than the existing one. I found it easy to navigate. Nice of you to offer both online and pdf manuals.

I have one question, overall-
The site specifically excludes the Mitsubishi VCR with reference to the AVX-1. Does this mean that 169Time is dropping support for this or does it simply mean that the Manual and information for the Mitsubishi is just not YET added to the proposed site?


Second item- Above, I have listed some basics of technical stuff from the old thread. I do not have the JVC procedure for AVX-1 operation which is quite different from the MIts. You posted it in the Manual for the AVX and the JVC VCR. Would you post that procedure to this thread or do you wish this remain a copyright of you and/or 169Time at this time?

Note- I plan to submit to this thread a startup process for the Mits VCR and it would be nice to have one for the JVC as well. I was going to ask Jeff but since yours looks like what I had in mind, it will save him the bother.

Dave:

Obviously the most important thing is stability in recording HBO, SHO and HDNET, 199 pay channel in that order.

I would be extremely interested in recording to hard drive.


Lon

Lets see. I also told RIchard last night that stability is number one.
But as he is debugging this, he may have time to put other stuff in.
This is why he is asking.

Don, the web designer put on the web which 169time had.
As I said, I can modify the web to put what ever we want in it.
Do you want to send me Mits stuff and I can update. Just tell me how you would like the web changed, and I can do it. No, 169time is not leaving the mits!

Don, not sure what your second question is? Try me again.

Dave

Originally posted by Don Landis
"display only error info on avx-1 screen "
No!

I would hope that the above would be user selectable only. I use the avx-1 screen now to advise me when things are ready and stable. I would not want a blank screen until there is an error. I don't want the AVX-1 to just tell me when I made an error in operation. Now it tells me things are ready. That was my request, but please don't misinterpret what I was asking for. I did not ask for a "blank screen screen until there was an error". I ask for a user selectable option to turn off the scrolling bit rate display. The purpose was to keep the useful startup and error messages ON THE SCREEN and WITH A TIMESTAMP. With that information the user can quickly determine if a recording has errors and where they are on the tape.

I made the suggestion because it was a useful modification, and extremely easy for Richard or Dave to do (about 2 minutes of programming).

Roger, good input. Will pass to RIchard.

Dave

"Don, not sure what your second question is? Try me again."

Yes, I wanted to know if you would post here the JVC initialization procedure for the AVX-1 you so nicely outlined in the AVX manual.

I could resurect it from the posts but when I saw yours I thought the official version should match. I would have copied/pasted it but didn't want to have any © issues with you or 169. best if you do it.

Don, is this what you wanted?

This is for the JVC D-VHS deck Only:

The requirement to avoid selecting the STB as the input to the deck requires some practice and planning while operating the deck’s channel up / down controls. The steps are listed as follows:



1) Tune the DTC100 to an HDTV channel. This can be either an OTA DTV channel or a satellite HDTV channel. Using analog OTA channels or standard definition satellite channels is inappropriate.

2) If not already on and booted, start the AVX-1 and wait for it to completely boot at this point. Note that the AVX-1 does not need to be or reset rebooted if it had previously been switched on and booted.

3) Use the deck’s channel up and down buttons to select the I-number that corresponds to the AVX-1.

4) Use the deck’s channel up / down buttons to select the input source that is adjacent to the I-number of the AVX-1, while not selecting the STB. Here’s more on this. If the STB has an I-number that is a lower number than that of the AVX-1, use the channel up button to select the next higher adjacent input source, typically this will display “2CH” (most users). If the STB has a higher I-number than the AVX-1, use the channel number to select a lower adjacent input source that is typically “F-1”. This way the selection of the STB as in input source has been avoided and the deck is tuned to the adjacent input and not the either the AVX-1 or STB. Sometimes the deck is sluggish in selecting the adjacent input source. After pressing the channel up / down button allow a few seconds and then press it again if required to achieve the desired change in input as shown on the deck’s front panel.

5) Use the power switch of the deck to put the deck in the power off (standby) mode.

6) Again use the deck’s power switch to switch it on.

7) Use the opposite of the deck’s channel up / down button that was used in step 4) above to re-select the AVX-1 as the input source to the deck, thus avoiding the STB as a selected input source. It may take a few seconds for the deck to respond to the selection. After waiting a few seconds if the I-number selection corresponding to the AVX-1 doesn’t appear, press the button again.



At this point the HDTV signal should be present on the outputs of the JVC deck. Viewing or recording of the HDTV signal through the deck’s outputs can commence. Even if not used for viewing, the deck’s outputs are an excellent way to monitor the integrity of the recording process. If the deck is accidentally set to select the DTC100 as the input source, or there are substantial glitches in the audio or video signal output, for example a loss of audio to video time synchronization or pixelation is displayed by the deck, it is suggested to perform the steps 1) through 7) again to ensure that the deck is properly conditioned to accept the signal from the AVX-1.



Dave

Yes, that's it. Just title it for JVC only as that will not work with the Mits VCR. This way people won't get confused and wonder why that doesn't work with the Mits.

Done.

dave

Say Dave... coming from a web d-zine background, might i offer a couple of observations?
One is the little carrot indicator, when you're rolling over, it might be nice to put it on the opposite side of the words, since you're using it to indicate which page you're on... i know it adds a few bytes of graphic, but it might be nice...

Another is the green patch whit the 'introduction' you might want to take the carrot out. Kinda looks like a typo.

Another is the home page, maybe the image used to 'sell' the product should be ultra sharp, rather than the trendy blurry...

Its a very nice looking page. kudos to the d-ziner

Matt, thanks for the inputs. Will look at seeing if I can changes myself. The d-ziner, she did a great job. IF I cant figure out, I ask for help.

dave

Ken H.

Could you please correct the spelling of "technical" in the title ot this thread to make it possible to search for it.
George

Hye, I thought I was the only one who couldnt spell ;)

dave

I am a worse speller ;)

To all who noted my spelling errors, I have corrected them, thanks.

Hi, Don!

I'm not using split toroids for my IEEE-1394 cables - I'm using a continuous toroid, which is a more effective form of RFI suppression. These are made by attaching the bead to the cable prior to the connectors being soldered on, then they are overmolded with plastic to hold them in place. While they aren't cheap, these cables are available from Granite Digital (http://www.granitedigital.com/).

Among many other tidbits lost from the original thread:

- Don't use a wireless access point near your A/V rack, or else you'll see long periods where the signal blanks out for several seconds.

- Improving the signal strength reduces the frequency of the dropouts. I am convinced that the dropouts we are seeing are primarily caused by internal RFI interference inside the DTC100, where the HDVR introduces additional noise. From observation, this is most likely caused by the high-impedance grounding method (long thin wires are used to connect power and ground to the HDVR board). For some folks like me, using a satellite line preamp helps reduce the frequency of dropouts. Unfortunately, for many others, the preamp raises the signal to the point where the front-end of the DTC-100 is desensitized, leading to <lower> signal-stengths.

The real fix, in my opinion, is a combination of software that is better at resyncing, as well as a hardware fix that lowers the power and ground impedances to the HDVR, possibly including a mu-metal shield around the HDVR.

Cheers!
MarkF

Here is an interesting process that should help for now.

We've heard from customers of an alternate way to address this problem
as
> > follows.
> > Just prior to leaving the setup ready to record-
> >
> > 1) set the JVC channel to NOT select the AVX1
> > 2) do a fresh reset boot of the AVX1 (it isn't selected yet)
> > 3) Just at the time you want recording to start:
> > A) have the remote operate the channel (up or down as needed) to
select
> > the AVX1
> > B) wait a few seconds in the remote
> > C) have the remote issue the record command to the deck
> >
> > The above is said to work because the AVX1 was freshly booted and
doesn't
> > become corrupted until it's actually (running) sending the data to the
> > deck, which it doesn't do while it's waiting and not selected.
> >
> > Does this make sense?


---------------

reply,

> Thanks, the alternate way you suggested resulted in a successful timer
> recording late last night.
>
> When the JVC channel is not selected to AVX1 can the DTC100 perform
channel
> changes and not mess the AVX1 up?

169time's reply

Yes, when not selected, the AVX1 and deck will not see the DTC100 signal.
The deck should also not select the DTC100 during this period.

Glad to hear this works. It's not 100% since sometimes the deck / AVX1 do
not properly communicate and / or select the first time the channel button
is "pressed."



Dave

Dave,

That's pretty much what I'm doing. I just set the VCR to channel 2, power it down and back up, press the reset on the AVX-1 and then leave my remote to channel down and record. I've had about 3 things in a row fail. One was due to forgetting to change the time on my remote for daylight savings time, one looks like the tape I put in might not have gone in all the way, and for one I think I bumped a firewire cable and it wasn't in far enough. Boy am I POed :) Why can't you guys get around my stupid errors :)

Actually, I have seen them not get synced after I do this right, but I think it tends to work most of the time. One interesting behavior is that sometimes the AVX-1 will find the HDVR and wait for data, other times it doesn't and keeps looking for the HDVR. I think it depends on the timing for when I reset and power things. I have a gut feeling that the case where it sees the HDVR and then waits works a little better, but I haven't really tracked this one down. This would also seem to go against the advice of making sure that the AVX-1 doesn't see the DTC100 until things are ready to record. I left one setup earlier today where the 30k was on channel 2 and the AVX-1 was waiting for data. I'll see how that worked when I get home.

--Darin

Let us know

dave

I finally got around to checking my tapes from the last couple of days and looks like they are all blank (I get the copy protected material error). I'm not sure what happened but I hadn't powered off the AVX-1 for a while, I was just resetting it. So now I unplugged it and then started it up again. I'll see how it goes for another try tomorrow. It is currently in a state where it saw the HDVR and is waiting for data, so this should be a good test. The VCR is on channel 2 with the remote set.

--Darin

My recording of "Defending Your Life" this morning looks like it worked perfectly. However, that one isn't 5.1 and I have the feeling that the AVX-1 has more trouble with 5.1 material. Do you guys agree? Maybe I just think that because HDNet works so much better than HBO.

I'm taping "American Outlaws" now (if my remote worked), but I'm not clear on whether it is stereo or 5.1. I guess I'll find out later.

So, here is the procedure I'm going to try for a while.

Initial state: DTC-100 on appropriate satellite channel. 4-pin to 4-pin cable to from of 30k. 30k selecting I-2 input. 4-pin to 6-pin cable from back of 30k to AVX-1. Here I don't think it matters if the AVX-1 is in sync or out, but I'll have it in a state where it should be processing data.

1. Unplug AVX-1, plug it back in and power up.
2. Wait until AVX-1 is about halfway up.
3. Channel up on 30k to channel 2. Power off and back on.
4. Wait for AVX-1 to boot completely and make sure that it sees an HDVR and is waiting for data. It shouldn't be printing any new status at this point.
The next step will either be manual or from my remote.
5. At the appropriate time, channel down on the 30k and start recording.
6. Pray.

I believe that there is still one packet or so of information that has allowed the AVX-1 to see the HDVR, but since the 30k no longer has the input selected to let the AVX-1 process data it doesn't get messed up. Then I think it will successfully sync a higher percentage of the time than if it were in the "Looking for HDVR" loop. I'll let you know how this works out.

I'm really hoping to get Shrek tomorrow morning. If the first recording makes it an hour or so and then fails, I'll start a second recording later at the failure point. I would rather have a copy with one inconsitency than no copy. Then I could always try for a perfect copy later.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I think another advantage of the above procedure is that it doesn't take as long to sync, so it should be easier to get the beginning of a program.

--Darin

Whats so nice about OTA recordings with the dtc100 from 169time, is they are 100% quality. And it takes the dish 5000. When was the last time someone reported a real issue with either the standard dtc100 or any recordings from the OTA sources? I sure would rather stick with my proven workhorse than .....

Dave

Looks like I'm basically one for two with my procedure so far. I got all but just the very beginning of American Outlaws. I'm starting all tapes a few minutes in just in case they start the movie early and I'll try to tape the opening shot on later. That one was with my remote and then I tried The Sandlot later. It looks like it was bad from the very beginning. I didn't see any indication of that on the AVX-1. I don't know if channeling down and then pressing record too soon could cause any issues, as I have a delay set on my remote, but didn't really wait when I did it myself.

--Darin

I beat on RIchard again last night for new s/w. This is all I can do at the moment. I know he has some other stuff he wants to offer, but again I told him last night, he had better not announce anything until he gets the next avx-1 s/w. So, trying for us as much as I can direct him.

Dave

Thanks, Dave. I agree with you about needing to get beyond beta software before selling new products. I don't think that would go over very well here and if he can get things working at a high level on the old stuff, it will definitely help him sell the new stuff even if it isn't to that high level, yet. I would give potential customers that confidence that they will eventually get there, too. As an engineer I definitely understand how fun it can be to see something working for the first time, even if it isn't perfect. The touchups aren't the fun part, but are necessary. Too bad he doesn't have someone who can provide that finishing stuff for him so he can do the more exciting stuff.

My last couple of recordings failed, but it looks like my 30k. It was messing up while playing old tapes this morning that had worked just a couple of days ago. Looks like I need to do a search on the best way to clean this thing.

--Darin

Darin, when you say messing up your tapes. Have you unplugged your unit? Is the avx-1 off? Both of these have caused my playback issues.
Now richard says the deck I loaned him is messing up. THis stuff is weird.

Dave

Dave,

Yes, I first tried unplugging both firewire cables, but that didn't work. Next I tried disconnecting the power to the 30k for about 10 seconds. That didn't work so I tried disconnecting the power for about 5 minutes and moving the 30k. It's showing that big blockiness and I know it was working the other day at a Seattle projector shootout with the same spot on the same tape (Moulin Rouge).

I had been watching Shrek for the first 10 minutes or so and I know it was coming through fine. However, I can't get anything even viewable from the tape. I hope I can get it one of the other 4 days it is on this month. November looks like a great month to be taping HD material, with sweeps and all.

Does this problem sound like what you guys see when it needs to be cleaned? I've vacuumed just at the opening of the tape slot a couple of times, but I haven't done anything for cleaning inside.

--Darin

I got Shrek! After checking the tapes from "Shrek" and "The Bear" I couldn't get anything good out of them. I then found that even my D-Theater tapes had some issues, but none were as bad as the tapes that I had recorded. Tapes that had worked previously also showed some problems.

Then I did a pretty good cleaning and ran the dry DT-100 (or something like that) cleaning tape for 6 minutes. I checked the "Shrek" and "The Bear" tapes and everything I checked looked clean. Tonight I showed "The Bear" to some guests and everything was good for the first 40 minutes or so. Then I noticed some dropouts. Everything was always in sync, but the audio would dropout and/or I would get some blocky video. A few minutes later we got some more and after a while it really started messing up. I was surprised I hadn't seen this when I checked the tape earlier, so I backed it up a few minutes and ran the cleaning tape for about 1.5 minutes. Then everything was perfect again. By the end of the movie I was getting some more dropouts, so I'm going to have to figure out what is going on. I'll check inside again to see if something else needs to be cleaned and use some compressed air this time. My VCR is only about 6 weeks old, so I hope it doesn't have any major issue.

It looks like my problems playing back weren't affecting recording, so hopefully I can get "What Women Want" this morning.

My success with those movies is getting me to stick with the procedure that I put in this thread a few days ago, for now.

--Darin

Darin, this is interesting stuff. At face value, a number of folks would have instantly said the avx-1 was bad. But as you have clearly shown, there are much more variables to this than just the avx-1. The JVC is far from perfect!! And, we have all yet figured out how to deal with it.

Dave

Dave,

Simply as a data point, I have been able to make "perfect" recordings of Showtime the last few weeks. I have had one or two choppy video seconds with blocks at the very first of the recording sessions, but have never lost a movie and lip sync has never wavered. I would love to say that I had changed something to make things better, but have not. I still have not installed the "pad" to date. I do have the amplifier installed several weeks ago.

HBO is still hit or miss and I haven't recorded anything from HDNET since the Avs - Wild hockey game two weeks back.

Jeff

Jeff, all I would say is we know the current avx-1 s/w doesnt have as much tolerance in it thats needs to handle signal quality issues. So whether SHO has improved their signal, or the weather in your area, or you home noise, who knows. All we know is RIchard IS working on the next pass of s/w to make it more robust. I am taking him and family to the airport for Christmas. I told him the other night I wont drive him if the s/w isnt released by then. ;)

Dave

Dave,

I have always had better luck with Showtime than anything else. Nothing has changed in my home environment. I actually use my first unit for the OTA stuff and the 2nd for HBO/SHO/HDNET or when there is a conflict OTA.

Always glad to hear of a more robust solution being actively worked on. Now, if we could only get Richard to want to go away for Thanksgiving and we could put on the same pressure. :)

Jeff

I keep telling him he wont be able to afford turkey if he doesnt get the s/w out. ;)

dave

Talking to Richard tonight, I think he finally is actually focusing on the avx-1 s/w again. YEA. The type of things we talked about could only happen with him having the Linux development station back up and running. Hes trying to find a way to get timer to work w/o having to upgrade the f/w.
I told him my opinion is we need timer. If someone doesnt want their f/w upgraded (if this has to happen) they dont since we are using remote timers today anyways. I again teased him and said I wont take him and family to the airport at christmas if he doesnt get another release out.
So, things are sounding good.

Dave

Using the 169time product to record Alias the other night, I had a strange problem.

When playing back the tape, the JVC only displayed the SD portion ( subchannel ) of the ABC feed from here in Denver. It turned out that when I started to view the tape, the last channel on the DTC100 for OTA was the SD subchannel, so that is what the JVC took from the firewire stream. I was finally able to figure out that I needed to stop the tape and change the displayed channel to 17-2 ( HD feed ) and Presto! worked as supposed to.

It is amazing how much there is to get used to in the JVC deck, etc. Also, while viewing the SD part of the bitstream, there were severe pixelation throughout that was not in evidence in the HD portion. I take this to further support our hypothesis that we probably get picture dropouts with lower signal purity that the JVC can't handle well since their SD part of the bitstream is at substantially lower bit level. I am starting to agree with some others that the JVC is a major contributor to our general satisfaction with the AVX-1 status at this time. And remember, I have been overall very pleased with what I have right now. I would still want timer recording as I use the timer for the OTA weekly recording now.

Jeff

jeffden, hit the 'ch +' or 'ch -' button on the JVC remote while Playing back that tape and It'll switch sub channels. Try it on any of your OTA recordings, I think you'll be surprised.

I have a weird problem on one channel that when watched through the JVC shows the second sub channel even when the first sub channel is tuned on the DTC100.

I agree Jeff, w/o easy timer recording, its tough to use. But again, lets get back to root cause. If the JVC had tuner timer on the I link, like the panasonic, 169time would have to spend so much time trying to find a reliable way to fix this issue with the JVC. I did ask my contact at JVC about it, he talked directly to the Japan designer when he was here in the US, and basically got back, why would anyone need that feature, and there it ended.

Dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
I agree Jeff, w/o easy timer recording, its tough to use. But again, lets get back to root cause. If the JVC had tuner timer on the I link, like the panasonic, 169time would have to spend so much time trying to find a reliable way to fix this issue with the JVC. I did ask my contact at JVC about it, he talked directly to the Japan designer when he was here in the US, and basically got back, why would anyone need that feature, and there it ended.

Wow, that is pretty sad. I know this isn't related to 169time, but I've been hoping that they would put the HD tuner for OTA in the next rev of the 30k. I think that would help them sell a lot more of these, even after HD-DVD comes out. I hope this isn't an indication that they aren't going to figure that out. Oh well, maybe some other smart company will leapfrog them on this one.

I'm planning on going to CES and I'm going to look for their booth and find out if they have anybody who isn't braindead on this.

--Darin

I used some wrong words. I should have said if the JVC had I link timer like the panasonic, then all of us would have an easier time. 169time wouldnt have to waste time getting a reliable timer going.

Dave

Dave- The timer for DVHS in the Panasonic system is in the DST50 tuner. The timer in the VCR is for analog only. I thought all DVHS HDTV VCR's required an outboard timer.

Don, since I havent had a hd1000 for a while, guess I may not remember.
I thought others had posted lately that you could timer record using the hd1000 timer for I link. But if you say its analog only, never found you to be wrong yet. So if its true no one has evey made a DVHS deck with timer on I link, wonder if there is some non written agreement to not do this.
Cant believe an engineer for one of this products would not see the need.
They love to market features even if they cant be used.

My comment still stands. If we had a I link timer in the dvhs decks, no matter what the STB is, we could do lots of neat things like serial or parallel recording. Maybe JVC could "add" this when they improve their deck?

Dave

The PV-HD1000 does allow for "i-link" input from its own internal timer menu.
It calls it the "DTV" input.

One needs a seperate composite cable from the VCR to access the timer menu.
Will actually set-up for 8 events I believe.

The Panny's timer works perfectly with the DTC-100 (OTA only) and the modified Unity Motion STBs.

Todd, I thought I had done that but couldnt remember.

Dave

I have deleted the non-technical posts from the last few days.

Thanks for that Todd, I never could figure out how to get to it. If I have the PVHD1000 connected to the DST50, how do I access the timer to program the VCR? Maybe it will be obvious if I connect another monitor up to the VCR via the composite video as you suggested.

If you have a stack of HD1000's you can daisy-chain the composite connections to one monitor to set up the timers. Very handy when using a hub and recording a bunch of stuff while on vacation.

169time I think is updating the old web site to try and answer a lot of question they are getting on the phone from folks who either havent read the web or avs. If people see things that are not explained thoroughly, let me know and will pass to 169time. They may be able to improve to help answer questions.

dave

Dave,

I hope it's appropriate to put discussion of the features in the next software here. Mine relate to the technical issues and I couldn't find a thread about 169time software feature requests. I thought you had one, I didn't find it.

I know we've all said that we want the software to be more stable, but I have one concern. Right now when things go bad, they go really bad. In a way this can be good because we can look near the end of the tape and see that we don't have a good copy. One downside of making the software recover is that we could end up with recordings with lots of glitches, but no indication without watching the whole thing. If Richard is able to update the software so that there aren't many glitches that would be great, but if we are going to have glitches I would prefer that it just stop the recording if things go bad enough. I'm not sure if the software can even sense when things go bad, so I don't know how possible this is.

Just thought I would put it out there and see what you and other people think. Since the AVX-1 boots off a CD I don't know if there is anyway to have flags that we could set to get certain behavior, like disabling normal status messages or having it stop when things get out of sync.

This is the kind of stuff I have to think about while doing my job of working on a little medical product.

Thanks,
Darin

Darin, great input. Will pass to Richard. In talking to him last night, he is pulling his hair out trying to figure out why he cant get timer recording to work all the time. I commented that if its a choice of stable s/w with an external timer, vs no update s/w until he can get the timer to work, I said go with the external timer.

Dave

Originally posted by PVR
darinp - if my (hypothetical) pacemaker started to miss a beat now and then, I think I would rather it kept right on trying rather than shutting down! ;)

I totally agree. I know this is off topic, so it might get deleted, but that is why I am glad that I don't work on a class 1 medical device, where failure is likely to kill someone. With our device (an ultrasound machine) if things go bad we can shutdown instead of giving erroneous results. It doesn't tend to happen, though, which is a good thing. I sleep better at night than I would have if I had gone to work on a pacemaker type device, as I almost did.

For recording stuff I sure would be frustrated if all my recordings looked great and then I pulled them off the shelf 3 months from now (after HBO has quit showing the movie) only to find tons of glitches. So, I say turn off the pacemaker if the tape is too sick :)

--Darin

I've posted about this several times before, but I guess it got deleted with the old thread. The solution is VERY SIMPLE. Right now, whenever the AVX-1 encounters an error or does a buss reset it displays a message to it's console output. The problem is that these messages quickly scroll off the screen because of the constant one-line bitrate messages. If the user could turn off the bitrate messages, the errors and resets would remain on the screen. Richard or Dave could easily timestamp the error messages. That way, after a recording was completed, the user could look at the screen and see how many, and when, errors and resets occured.

Roger, RIchard should make this kind of change in the next s/w based on your great idea here.


dave

Dave- Have you ever seen the AVX-1 indicate- "System has performed a runaway loop and is stopping context" ?

I sent this to Richard this evening. It appears to be a mal function in the hardware as it is occurring in both beta versions of the CD's I have. This happens prior to 1394 connection so it is contained in the AVX hardware.

Oh, I just got a message that the note to Richard has been received. Damn that was fast, Hope he has an answer that quick. (4 minutes to read the e-mail) :)

Don, never seen that error. I would agree it sounds like a h/w problem.

Dave

I've done some more testing with no positive results. I told Richard I would send it in on Monday if I can't resolve it by then. I have not opened the box to do the usual things I would try, like re-seat socketed stuff.

Some more experienced people may have some data on this but (and I just sent this idea to Richard) that I believe there exists a possibility of the CD suffering data loss. Commonly called "laser rot" I have heard stories from people on some of the professional editor's forums I frequent where people have saved out client files that played back fine a few weeks out but 9 months later the CD-RW would have corrupted data or be completely unreadable. To a much lesser extent, CD-R's also had an issue and some brands were more of a problem than others. Pressed CD's were not a problem. In this case we are working with a CD-R that is part of the operation, and I believe it get's more exposure to laser than the average CD-R in use today. While a possibility to consider, I don't think this is the case with mine since I have two CD;'s and both have the same problem. That makes it more likely to be a hardware mal function.

Update:

After several days of on time the AVX-1 is booting normally as tested this afternoon. I have advised Richard of this.

I have recorded HDNet just fine again. I'm glad it is not a CD laser rot issue but does appear to be some sort of hardware intermittent problem, that may be related to hardware temperature. Time will tell but for now I'm back to recording with the AVX-1 again.

Last evening I recorded 3 hr and 30 minutes continuous and then watched the entire tape. There was a bunch of stuff I wanted to watch on HDNet and had other commitments so it was a good test of what I wanted the AVX primarily for, recording HDNet. The recording was 100% perfect, no glitches anywhere. It was like watching live! What surprised me was I discovered I had my WAP turned on at the time and this didn't affect the recording. Also, I know that the 2.4 Ghz phone was used twice during the recording and it did not affect the recording. Both were problematic last summer. I guess the toroids are doing their job. Anyway, I am happy to report that the software loop problem has disappeard after the AVX was kept on for several days and now appears to be working as it should.
I sent Richard an e-mail today on this and consider my case closed.

Don:

Like I said when the avx1 stays in sync the result is a perfect recording even on HBO and SHO, the key for me was installation of the pads.

Lom

Lon, are you using more than one pad? I currently only put one on the back of the dtc100.

dave

I wanted to find out if 169time also works with a Panasonic HD-directv receiver {tu-hds20} ? I have seen only mention of the dtc-100 ,it wouldn't make much sense to only mod a receiver that isn't even made anymore ...
would it ?

I want to replace my vhs recorder with something really nice,the JVC 3000 looks pretty good,although there seems to be problems with this machine ???

The DTC100 is a SOLID workhorse which I have seen nothing built yet that causes me to want to upgrade. The 169time board can be put into other STB's since the guts of most of these things are basically the same, but again, the avx-1 s/w has to be first. Then the question would be would effort into another direct tv setup be next, or a dish setup?

Dave

Dave:

One pad at the DTC100 Sat input.

Lon

Okay, wasnt sure if pads was one or two.

dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
The DTC100 is a SOLID workhorse which I have seen nothing built yet that causes me to want to upgrade. The 169time board can be put into other STB's since the guts of most of these things are basically the same, but again, the avx-1 s/w has to be first. Then the question would be would effort into another direct tv setup be next, or a dish setup?

Dave

it's just that I could not afford to dump the STB I now use just to get the only one that 169time mods ?,it would be nice if they did the same thing to at least a greater # of STB's .

is there anything else out there that would let me with my current setup record in 1080i ?

"Then the question would be would effort into another direct tv setup be next, or a dish setup? "

I'll cast my vote for the 6000. Hmmmm... Maybe we're in need of a poll!
Don't start one Dave, I'll do it. Let me do some thinking on the questions first. What ever the outcome, it would be a good show of what people would like to see for their own use.

Make sure you get the poll questions correct first. ;)

dave

I'll try but I'm sure I won't include everyone's personal situation. I will try to do it to resolve the major differences, like a primary election with only qualified running candidates, no write- ins however. :(

Can we have some chads though?

dave

Here is the link to the lastest 169time web thats still being updated, but has all the latest updates so far.

http://www.golden-hills.com/169time/index.html


dave

Is there a reason why the new web site information is now refusing to acknowledge the HDVR works with PVHD1000 and Mits VCR's? I wonder if the person writing the copy for this new site is fully educated about the HDVR and 169Time products or is 169Time planning to no longer support the PVHD1000 and the Mits? The site information only mentions the JVC deck. Considering that there appear to be more techniocal problems with using the JVC, than the PVHD1000 and the Mits, the reason to support and acknowledge JVC over these must be political, ignorance, but certainly not technical. Is there a simple explanation, Dave?

I dont know. Its sure not intended. Will ask RIchard and let ya know.

Dave

Dave,

The new web site does not mention 169time's first delivered product, the firewire adapter for the Unity Motion STB. I would like to believe that Richard will continue to support that product. Mine is running fine with its original software, and has never had a problem.


George

George, I sent your question to Richard.

dave

George, Richard says this is why the web isnt "released" yet.

Richard just called and told me about some interesting stuff he saw.
He had the JVC playing back with the avx-1 near by running, but I believe not connected to the jvc. He had noise. He moved the avx-1 4 feet away and the noise went away. He then turned on the dtc100, again, not connected, and the noise came back. He then took the choke he had from the panasonic HD1000 and put it on the dtc100 power line. The noise went away on the jvc. So he says he is going to order a big box of various size chokes, and put on his power lines. This stuff is just not designed for commerical quality.

Dave

Dave- What we said last July on the toroid RFI Chokes.
I'm wondering if the JVC is emitting some of the RFI with the 30Khz RGB output. Maybe the Mits is slightly less RFI generating since it does not do that additional frequency transmission of the 30K sync output. Just guessing. In the past 3 months I have been successfully recording with only one FW cable with RFI chokes, the one between the AVX-1 and the Mits VCR.

Don, I may be getting more info from ya. If I dont hear some good stuff tomorrow with JVC, I am going to push hard to get my money back. I would then buy 5 mits decks, and 2 more dtc100's. More than one way to skin a cat. Sounds like you have had no issues recording with the dtc100, dish5000 and the mits?

Dave

The mits only presents one challenge and that is to get the darn thing connected. I have about 3 methods and always one of them works, but I must always allow for the possibility I will need to go through those 3 steps and therefore can't simply come into the room at 8:59 to hit record at 9:00 and know it will work. I begin testing connections, allowing myself about 10 minutes safety margin and then punch in record.

Dave- I do not consider you a knee jerk reactionary, but your issue with JVC seems to be manifesting that way. If I were in your position, I would try one MIts first and then decide after a reasonable trial period. The MIts is not without problems, they are just different problems than the JVC. Nothing works perfect!

Don, just thinking out loud about my options. This is the way I work. I love the decks for all the reasons I have said over the last year. But, they keep failing and its now not just me. Unless I can get a good answer from JVC, not sure what other option I have. I have way way too much money in these to just say oh well, just live with it. If its a small company like 169time, I can live with that. But a company the size of JVC. NAH.
Will try and give JVC a call now and see what I get.

Dave

Marek wasnt in so will call back in an hour. All I want to know is the solution to this issue. They were great on the f/w fix. For some reason its feeling funny on this one since it sounds like others havent gotten good answers.

dave

Guys,

I am a believer in the "pad". I had held out on installing the pad from RS as I was getting pretty good recordings from SHO and HDNET, but HBO was still hit or miss. After installing the pad last Saturday, I have been able to record from HBO without a hitch ( 5 days straight ). I have reset or powered on and off the AVX-1 prior to any attended recording session, but have attempted a few Pronto based timered recordings as well ( such as Sexy Beast the other night at midnight.

My only problem lately has been the DTC100 with mod has locked up and been unable to get in the ready state. I have had to cold boot twice in the last two weeks the DTC to get the combo to work. Otherwise, whether from a lucky period of good signal or the pad or whatever, things are running smoothly for the most part.

Jeff

Does anyone have a link or part number for the 'pad'? I did a search of the forum and couldn't find it. Is it just a 3db attenuator? Thanks.

Its the radio shack part, 6 db, only one they have

dave

Catalog Number: 15-1258

Thanks guys. Is this part any different than regular inline attenuators? I've got a bunch of those from 3db-16db.

The above is an inline F connected and is 6 db.

I'm having trouble looking that up by part number. I'm also confused what it is that we're talking about and where it goes. Are we talking about putting a choke around the firewire cable, an attenuator on the satellite input into the DTC-100, or are both of those getting discussed?

Thanks

Joe

Joe- Go into any Radio Shack in your town. That is the name of the store that sells both parts. Radio Shack is in just about any city in the country but I'm not sure if you have them in Roseville Mn. If not they have a web site at radioshack.com where you can order the part. They will help you and explain how to insert the part in your cable.

The Web site is currently out of stock on that part and you can't back order it.

There are 2 versions of the Radio Shack 6dB pads:

Part number 15-1257A is the preferred version as it has a male on one end and female on the other end. Just attach it to the antenna input of the sat receiver and then connect the antenna. No adapters required. Note that this version also allows the DC to pass through--very important.

My local store had lots of these. The 15-1258 version is less common and less convenient to install because it is male on each end.

Thanks. We do have Radio Shack stores. What I'm curious about is whether people are using chokes, attenuators, or both. I'm not clear if peope are discussing one solution or two.

I'm confused because I thought people were suspecting that the problem was RF interference between the the DTC-100 and the AVX-1. If that's the case, I thought people were talking about a choke on the cable between the DTC-100 and the AVX-1. Wouldn't an attenuator be for a case where the satellite signal was too strong going into the DTC-100? I'm trying to understand why you'd want to weaken your satellite signal. Wouldn't that make you more susceptible to rain fade and other signal losses?

Anyhow, what I was wondering was:

Are people using an attenuator, a choke, or both?

If people are using a choke, which cable are they using it on?

Are people using attenuators experiencing other unwanted problems like increased susceptibility to rain fade?

What is the reason for wanting to attenuate the satellite signal?

Dave, is there any update on when a software update for the AVX-1 might be available? Does Richard suspect that might clear up the problems without the need for either chokes or attenuators?

Thanks much!

Joe

Joe Linn:

The purpose of the pad is to prevent signal distortion by reducing the amplitude of signal reflections on the dish to receiver transmission line. If the reflected signal is strong enough (i.e., above the threshold) it can combine with the desired signal to produce a corrupted signal. If the transmission line is long, line attenuation usually does the job. If the cable is short, then the pad provides the attenuation. It's kind of a balancing act, but 6dB loss for the desired signal can usually be tolerated. In my case, there was no change in "signal strength" after I installed the pad. The reason is the signal strength indicator is really a bit error rate indicator, so installation of the pad did not increase errors. Of course if the transmission line is well matched at each end, then you wouldn't have the problem in the first place. This is usually not the case with most consumer grade systems. Reason: Better matching costs more money. A few pennies over millions of units is lots of lost profit. Nothing new here.

I dont have a date of S/w from Richard. I bugged him last night when over at the lab.

I think the key to add up based on all the type off issues you read on avs here with the vcr decks, stb's, etc, is in a digital world, if something "fails", you cant point at one piece. For the same channels, why are some having basically no issues and others are. The s/w between the units is sure not different. It goes back to what I have said many many times, its the quality of the signal and enviorment that makes the difference. This is w/o any avx-1 either. So, the best Richard can do is try to mask a few more of the real life things going on. Its impossible to be "perfect", since the avx-1 cant mask the real world. Again, how can some be basically having perfect success recording lets say SHO, and others cant? Logically, seems like a pretty easy non emotional answer to me!!!!

I was ready to blame the jvc deck for a recording I made that had pixels.
Until I watch the show on the tv and it was pixels. Pixels in ,pixels out.
My modulator had gotten into a bad digital state.

So, Richard is trying to put more masking into the s/w. Will never be perfect if you dont clean up. And as I posted, the jvc, etc either put out or accept junk that messes them up w/o even the avx-1 connected.

Again, just the facts.

Dave

Robert,
Thanks very much for the informative post! That helps a lot. I never knew that the signal strength meter was really a bit error indicator. You have eased my fears that adding a pad would reduce my signal strength.

Dave,
Thanks for checking on the software. You're right. I wouldn't expect that the software could fix an imperfect signal. What seems to happen though is that after a glitch in the signal, the AVX-1 stays messed up when the signal returns to normal so that the rest of the recording is messed up. What I would hope he could accomplish with the software is that he would be able to return to tracking the signal correctly after a problem so that a glitch would only be temporary rather than affecting the rest of the recording. I'd like to have it be able to self-correct rather than requiring the user to unplug and replug the firewire, change the input, or recycle the AVX-1 to get it processing the signal correctly again. I'm so impressed with what Richard has been able to accomplish and with finally having the ability to record HD that I am hoping another little tweak will allow the AVX-1 to be as robust as recording OTA directly from the DTC-100. I'm optimistic that it will.

Thanks all

Joe

Robert explained the Pad insertion theory. For some people it helped, for others the in line amp was required and for, yet, others, like me neither did anything to change anything better or worse so I don't use either.

The RFI toroid choke is what you would put on if you have RFI. How do you tell? Generally we have found in the early beta testing that certain RF generating equipment in the home can and does cause the AVX-1 to mal function. These devices are:
2.4 Ghz digital phones,
Digital cell phone use
802.11b wireless lan WAP systems
Standard lan router/switches, broad spectrum RFI generators such as vacuum cleaners and electric drills with brush style motors that generate sparking.
All the above operating in proximity of the system will increase RFI. To reduce RFI the toroid is installed at each end of the 1394 cable just behind the connector. Some have found that adding two toroids on each 1394 cable in use but I found only the one between the AVX and the VCR was required to solve my RFI. Some have also found installing the appropriate RFI toroid on the 120v power cable just before it connects to the AVX-1 is also needed. I did not find this necessary at my location.

There were four recommendations by the early beta team to successful use of the AVX with current beta2 software.

1. keep the AVX at least 5 feet away from the VCR and the DTC-100 by using a 6 ft. 1394 cable.
2. Reduce RFI using RFI ferrite toroid snap-on chokes to the 1394 cables and the powerline cable as necessary.
3. Add an inline amp from Radio Shack to increase sat signals when signals are marginally low due to long line feed and other reasons
4. Add a 6 db pad to reduce the interferring standing waves on the sat feedline to below damaging threshhold.

What this means is you need a good quality signal and a clean environment for the AVX to work properly.

Don Landis: Good summary!

One thought I had on the amplifiers was they might have improved some systems because they provided a better match to the transmission line and thus reduced flections. In any case a trial is the only way to tell for sure.

Re toroids: I've had some experience with them. Depending the core material and other factors, they effect different frequencies more than others. Thus the effectiveness depends on the frequency of the interference. If you put 2 toroids of the same type on a cable, the attenuation is increased, but the frequency of attenuation is lowered.

If interference is supected, try several types of toroids as effectiveness varies greatly. Knowledge of the interfering spectrum would be very helpful in selecting the proper toroids. Maybe somebody can take a look at the various components with a spectrum analizer.

This digital stuff is not easy, but sure can be fun.

dave

Joe,

I found that an amplifier destroyed my signal and made it impossible to record anything reliably, which is why I was reluctant to try the pad. Seems silly now, since it costs just a buck or two. The pad has performed reliably and I have recorded several more movies the last two nights with it installed.

I had never noticed the RFI problems others had, but it seemed so prevalent at the beginning, that I got the chokes immediately ( also from RS ) and snapped them on. BUT, I have my JVC separated by a 13 foot Firewire cable from the AVX-1, so they are not in close proximity at all.

Jeff

Dave:

Does it look like Richard is walking to the airport?:(



Lon

'Cause of the ongoing JVC issue I've been thinking about getting a Mits D-VHS deck to continue my OTA recordings. Does the 169 timer work with the Mits deck too?

I recorded "Live From Bagdhad" last night and it was almost flawless. I was surprised because my satellite signal strength is down in the 60s now. Perhaps that is due to all of the storms out here on the West Coast.

A few glitches did occur and two were particularly interesting. The dropout caused the playback to stop entirely for a split second; I saw a quick flash of OTA programming and then the movie playback continued.

Thought that on the way to work today. I have learned working with Richard for hte last 2 years or so, when its ready, its ready, but until then, his mind is working on the problems.

JHL, how were you playing your tape? JVC output? Just for an FYI, I have recorded straight OTA with glitches that caused the JVC to lock up or go into pixels. This has nothing to do with the 169time products. Its a bug in the JVC firmware which the latest is supposed to fix. My first unit should be there so will let you know when I get back.

Dave

I was playing my tape back via the JVC 30K and the DTC-100. I was surprised because in numerous previous attempts I had never seen that particular glitch.

I did not save the tape, so I did not try it on my Mitsubishi 1100U. I was happy enough with the quality from the JVC 30K. Not perfect but close enough for satellite recording when the signal strength is relatively weak.

JHL, so if I read you comments correctly, you where playing the tape in the jvc, and watching with the dtc100?

Well, this was the lock up state I sent JVC a few ago on the tape. If I watched the jvc output, it locked on this glithed. At the same time watching the dtc100 output, it would glitch but keep on going.

Dave

That is correct. I am unable to watch via the component outputs of the JVC because of transcoder issues with my projector. I have been delaying purchasing a new transcoder and bought the Mitsubishi 1100U instead. I thought a second VCR would be more useful than using the component outputs; the DTC-100 seems to do an adequate job playing back tapes.

Originally posted by h2ofun
Jeff, all I would say is we know the current avx-1 s/w doesnt have as much tolerance in it thats needs to handle signal quality issues. So whether SHO has improved their signal, or the weather in your area, or you home noise, who knows. All we know is RIchard IS working on the next pass of s/w to make it more robust. I am taking him and family to the airport for Christmas. I told him the other night I wont drive him if the s/w isnt released by then. ;)

Dave

Dave,
Will Richard and his family be taking a cab to the airport for Christmas? :)

Steve

Yeh, there's not been much word here for a while.

Yea, looks like we will all be disappointed for christmas. I bug him on just about a daily basis. About all I can bug him now on is he better not introduce any new stuff, and I keep telling him hes going to have to get hungry enough soon since hes out of new dtc100s. I am as unhappy as everyone else and I have made this clear to RIchard. Its my credibility that gets beat up here on AVS, not his, and for me, a commitment is a commitment.

Dave

As a matter of perspective-
We have been using the same B2 software that is now 6 months old.
Dave- Your reports on the progress of this hasn't changed since August.
It is too bad that considering all this time, Richard cannot give you any answers as to how close he is to a resolution on the main issue, which I think is HBO timing issues. I have no problems with HDNet, as you know, and considering my personal solution was achieved with the AVX-1, I only push now so that others who are dependent on the AVX for movies will have their day too when the new B3? is released. For me, that will just be a backup if we are without the 5000/mod for HBO.
If we can't have a fix soon(meaning by the end of the year), maybe you could at least satisfy everyone's curiosity as to how close he thinks he is to improving the problem of HBO recording. Maybe a more defined answer as to what the problems are. I think after all this time everyone would like to hear from Richard, a short recap of the problem and his progress and best guestimate as to outlook for the future, eventhough I know it may be painful to do that.

Don, I have worked enough with RIchard that unless I see something, to be totally honest, words are just marketing. One the one side I stick up and support him totally, on the other its clear I only get from him what he wants me to have. I have not saying this is good or bad, I am just too much of an idealist for my own good. Since I am far from perfect, I am not judging him. Again, just being honest.

Dave

Dave,
I think I speak for many in saying we appreciate your efforts to resolve these problems.
Best wishes for a Merry Christmas,
Steve

Thanks Steve, I sure do try!!

Dave

Okay, just tried a few things on the JVC with the new f/w with the 169time DTC100. It still works with it which is good. There still is no I link timer.
My first quick recording worked but am not totally surprised. I didnt look at the new f/w numbers yet.

Dave

Dave,
Just tried to play "Live From Bagdad" and got good audio sync but pixelization. Stopped tape.Turned JVC off by remote, on again.Waited 10 seconds and started tape again, pixelization was gone but audio was out of sync by one second. Stopped tape. Turned JVC off, waited a few seconds, and on by remote again. Waited 10 seconds , played tape and audio was back in sync and picture was fine and continued ok from there. Is this the type of behavior the new JVC f/w is supposed to fix?
On the other hand,starting and stopping the tape may have only allowed the tape to track properly again and demonstrate how inconsistent the tape drive mechanism is.
Wouldn't it be possible to analyze the data stream from the tapehead on playback to see if there are bitstream errors or irregularities that are most likely caused by the pinchroller problems noted(and impressively documented) by Gridleak? I would imagine that the f/w fix JVC is trying is to enable the deck to better handle the errors induced by the poor mechanical design and performance of the pinch roller assembly.If this is correct, I would rather they fixed the real problem.I am just guessing at all this but it appears to make sense.
Steve

What I am about to post may or may not be relative to the JVC issues so take it for what it is worth-

Considering the many reports people are posting about the JVC mechanical problems after only a 100-200 hours of use, pinch roller issues etc. I decoded to examine my maintenance records on my VHS duplicator rack over the past 18 years. There was an interesting observation here. I have used a number of Panasonic VHS VCR's and a few JVC VCR's but in recent years, I have used Mitsubishi VCR's. These decks all get about 6 hours of record time per day and then rewind on each tape recorded about 6 days a week.
The maintenance records on the JVC machines I used about 8 years ago all had tape transport failures, requiring replacement within 9 months to a year of use.
Maintenance records on the Panasonic decks I had in use back in the mid 80's and then again in '95-'96 all indicate failures with the eject mechanisms.
I began to use Mitsubishi VCR's in my duplicator rack about '94 and these all failed after about 4 years use with problems in the power supply breakdown, the mechanics never failing except I did replace the pinch rollers on an annual or as needed basis, ie 9 months to 1 year. I now have 2 MItsubishi HD59 machines that are over 4 years old that have both had 5 pinch rollers and the power supply is still working and just this past month the rewind system is beginning to make rather loud noise during rewind but the VCR still produces very good recordings as scoped evaluated.

Based on the above, I would conclude that different manufacturers have unique weaknesses in their VCR design. I don't have recent data on the JVC, nor Panasonic in this business but I will tell you that based on my maintenance records the duplicator bay gets Mitsubishi VCR's as replacements now when a Mits goes bad and these usually go bad in the breakdown of the electronics, particularly the power supply and voltage regulation circuits while the mechanical side lasts much better than the competitors I had used.

I have a MItsubishi SVHS VCR that I installed new in my HT about 4 years ago and it has had several frequent needs to have it's head cleaned, far more often than those same machines in my duplicator rack. I believe this to be caused by the fact that most of the tapes played in this HT Mitsubishi VCR were rental tapes or tapes belonging to someone else. I never really used that VCR for recording much here. IT's main on time was spent with it as a cable tuner. The need for head cleaning, therefore, I have concluded is more related to the quality of tape passing the heads than the type machine. My duplicator VCR's need head cleaning after nearly 60 times as much record time as play time on the home theater same model VCR.

My Panny and Mits DVHS machines have never had the heads cleaned. They also have never had a tape in them that has had more than about 7 passes. And these HDTV tapes with that many passes has been rare. I believe mu most played HDTV tape has been the Startrek tapes ( I'm not a trekkie fanatic, I just like those movies and can watch them over and over) and my last demo tape I made up (which I get out when I have guests over who want to see a variety of HDTV programming available). Most of the time my DVHS VCRs have only had tapes with mostly 2 passes. Thus, the main reason why I probably rarely have the need, actually never had the need to clean the heads on the DVHS machines.
_________________________
Considering the above observations, do any of you use the same tape over and over for time shifting? Then, need to clean the heads? Maybe you should consider using a more robust tape for time shifting, like Broadcast Master grade SVHS tape that is made especially for the rigors of lots of jogging and shuttling back and forth. It may last longer for time shifting and produce less head clogging. Do you play rental tapes or tapes made by others of unknown origin in your DVHS VCR? Maybe you need to consider a second machine for this purpose and leave the one machine for critical recordings only for your own tape exposure.

Finally, I do know that any VCR in a smoking environment or one where you may have a popcorn machine will have atmosphere pollution that will deposit a film of contaminates on the VCR mechanics and in this environment, will suffer more frequent mechanical failure.



I know this is not really an avx issue but decided to post it here since the JVC problems have been discussed here and these have been a part of the problem from many in using the AVX.

I had been recording @ about 90-95% success rate recording HBO HD after installing the "pad", than all of a sudden all of my last 5 recordings had Jitter and went out of sync at about the 45 minute to 60 minute mark and did not recover. There has been no apparent change in the AVX1 enviorment does anyone have any clues?

Could the "pad" have gone bad?


Lon

LJG

Anything is possible, however the pad is just a couple of resistors. I would say it is very unlikely that a pad would fail unless hit by lightning.

Lon and others-

I'm going to do something I rarely do in a post- I'm going to speculate a, for lack of a better word, conspiracy theory on what is happening:

Known Facts-
1. DirecTV has been anti firewire access to all manufactured IRD's since the beginning. They just do not permit a manufacturer to add that feature to their boxes. We can only guess as to why.
2. HDNet is a free service from DirecTV and Mark Cuban has always been encouraging HDTV enthusiasts to freely record his content as well as made public statements that he will never espouse the use of 5C or any recording copy protection on his network.
3. We know that DirecTV has been "playing games" with the HBO signal, moving it from one TP to another, moving it from one sat to another and the signal has been often varying in strength as I have been able to measure it until I lost its access in late August.
4. HDNet in that same time frame has remained constant with very little tampering by DirecTV.
5. Showtime has remained constant on the 110 bird and has not been as problematic to record as HBO.

Is it possible that DirecTV's constant manipulating the signal of HBO HD is what is causing the often reported several days of good results followed by more bad results in AVX recording? There was a time when adding the in-line amp was the thing to do to get results on HBO and then people began to have bad results with that. Next adding a 6 db pad was the answer. This produces the exact opposite signal level direction as the in-line amp. People have theorized about the signal quality as opposed to the signal strength. All these explanations seem now, to me, to be an attempt at explaining immediate results but then we don't have an explanation when the device fails. We just know that now something has changed and a previous procedure no-longer works.

I would guess that this is precisely why Richard is not able to nail down a change in the AVX system to make it more stable over the long haul. He, too, may be getting good HBO recordings for a few days only to be followed with unexplained failures. The tests and changes he makes probably take days to weeks to be properly evaluated and thus the long delay in finding the answer. He is dealing with an intermittant issue here and as he gets close, DirecTV is changing the signal enough to throw his system software off and he is back to the drawing board. The issue with HBO and possibly Showtime HD may be one of a dynamic signal encoding that is static enough for the tolerance of the receiver but not static enough to fit into the window of translation by the AVX.

If one travels on the web to some of the open hacker sites you can find where some hackers have gone to the trouble of installing data stream analizers that record the data from the bird. These guys then sit and decipher this code and try to understand it. Actually they seem to do a pretty good job by my lay interpretation of their open posts. I don't think Richard is equipped with this sort of hardware or knowledge to decipher the data stream to determine what is going on that kills the AVX one time and doesn't the next, and even if he did, would he be able to build a fix to the system to predict these changes and deal with them in a non-destructive way?

I would also guess that DirecTV knows the difficulty of making a 1394 connection work on their IRD systems and recognize that it would be quite difficult to support and is the reason they refuse to allow manufacturers to add it. MY theories have nothing to do with the older more popular conspiracy theory that DirecTV is trying to protect recording of their signal but rather they are simply using a DBS system that 1394 cannot use that is stable enough to work over the long haul and they know this and simply do not wish to be bothered with support, therefore refuse to allow manufacturers to add 1394. In the case of 169Time's AVX, they have not licensed this retrofit but have no legal basis to deny it. They also don't need to support it. This is 169Time's problem, not DirecTV's.

Don, interesting analysis.

As I have said, I dont know what Richard is doing with the new s/w, but I can say working with him for so long now, it doesnt make sure that doesnt work! This is whats been so difficult for him. All his testing was fine in his lab, but we know others, not everyone, have seen issues, mainly with HBO.
As you have posted, its a fact that they have been messing around with this channel for real reasons that no one knows why, but I agree, if its not stable, no one with a s/w solution will be able to make it work correctly.
This is all a cat and mouse game, which does make it fun.
With all the tape issues we are having, one shouldnt even consider doing HD time shifting if they think is will be perfect.

Dave

Hi, I just got the 169time upgrade to my dtc100 and the 30k. Recorded the KQED HD loop last night and I want to view it through the DTC100, as my projector doesn't have component in. How do I get the dtc100 to output from the firewire link instead of from its ota tuner? I think this was on the old 169time thread, but haven't been able to find it on the new. No answer at the moment on Richard's phone.

Thanks, David

Tune to a good OTA channel and press play on the JVC. Thats it.

I tried that - it doesn't seem to work. Stays with the OTA channel. JVC receives just fine from the firewire link - so I don't think that's it. Is there a difference in how playback through the DTC works between HD content and standard DTV?

David-

The OTA channel MUST be ATSC broadcast in 1080i.

It is also important that you do NOT have the channel remapping selected in the DTC menu because if you do and you are tuned to a "mapped" channel it will not work. Remapping for those who don't know is where the station sends a signal that causes your receiver to display a fake channel number that is for matching the digital to the old analog number. You can't have this enabled and use the DTC for DVHS playback.
If you enabled this, just disable it and shut off the DTC and reboot, then rescan the new numbers (actual ATSC channel numbers)

The OTA channel doesn't have to be 1080i. Any ATSC channel will work, but it must be a strong signal or else there will be playback problems.

I sure thought it had to be a DTV signal

dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
I sure thought it had to be a DTV signal

dave

Yeah, it does , but not a high def 1080I DTV signal. Any OTA DTV signal will work.
Steve

yep

dave

Only ATSC OTA signal will work.

In addition- If you tune to a 480P from FOX local or from our CBS when they are testing the single sub in 480P it will freeze the OTA signal but will not play the DVHS recording when you hit play on the VCR. As soon as you hit stop on the VCR the OTA freeze returns to normal.

If you tune to a 1080i station, whether it was true HDTV or upconverted signal it will play just fine.

All local stations we have that transmit ONLY a single sub channel in 480P will not work here for the HDVR playback. All local stations that transmit a 1080i plus a 480P in the -1 and -2 subchannels will work fine for playback.

Dish5000/HDTV mod on channel 3-1 is 1080i so it works fine also.

We once had a 480i station here in town and that also worked like a single 480P station, it would freeze the OTA picture but would not play the DVHS tape when you pushed play on the VCR.

We now have several stations on the air with ATSC in 1080i and 480P only and the above is consistent with all of them. Therefore, until this is not so, locally, I stand by what I said earlier in that to play the HDTV tape through the DTC-100 / HDVR you must tune to an ATSC channel with 1080i on one of the subchannels. It can be upconverted 1080i but 1080i it must be and it can be adjacent to a second subchannel in 480P.

Additionally, last summer before we had any locals doing anything other than 480i or 480P I could only use the HDVR on the channel supplied by my Dish5000/modulator. When both the ABC and NBC stations added an upconverter and began 1080i upconvert on one of their subchannels along with a 480P sub, I could use their signal as well.

When I read the other reports here I went down and verified what I have reported above. It has not changed, although tonight the only station that is transmitting only a 480P signal is FOX channel. All the others are either single 1080i or 1080i in combination with 480P on two subs. These work, the FOX does not. I have no 720P signal to test here as our ABC local is converting all 720P from the network to 1080i. I would suspect that 720P would work just fine as the issue here is that the DTC-100 is what decides whether you can play back or not and it is a split system in that 720P and 1080i are on one side of the coin and 480P and 480i are on the other side. Your ATSC MUST be in HDTV mode 1080i and I'd guess 720P on the OTA to be compatible with the DVHS playback you recorded in 1080i.

ddell: I think you might need to have the AVX-1 turned off and disconnected from the 1394 while you try to play your tape back through the DTC100. The playback goes straight from the tape to the DTC100... The AVX1 is only used during recording Sat channels.

Moving wires around and resetting things often seems to be the price you pay to play here.

Hi, I just got the 169time upgrade to my dtc100 and the 30k. Recorded the KQED HD loop last night and I want to view it through the DTC100, as my projector doesn't have component in. How do I get the dtc100 to output from the firewire link instead of from its ota tuner? I think this was on the old 169time thread, but haven't been able to find it on the new. No answer at the moment on Richard's phone.

Thanks, David

Somehow my earlier post got on here twice. Thanks all for the feedback. Seems to work okay now tuned to SF Channel 30-1 - the KQED HD loop. Will experiment some more. /David

ddell: For your DTC100+HDVR to be ready for playback from tape I think the power light is supposed to be flashing. If tuned to a sat chan it doesn't flash regularly so you cannot playback then. If you are on an OTA channel and it isn't flashing, then try a power cycle on the DTC100.

PVR- Good reminder!

There are actually three ways to trigger the power light to flashing- meaning that the DTC-100 is ready.

After tuning to the ATSC signal on a non-mapped channel you can disconnect the FE cable and reconnect it. (This works for me 95% of the time.
Power button cycly the DTC-100
And as a last resort, power unplug and replug in the DTC-100.

OK, I'll be the bad guy again-

Did Dave take Richard to the airport?

Maybe he took the family to the airport but had a cab pick up Richard! Now that is what I would do. :D

Just received the HDVR mod as well as the AVX-1. I was able to locate the AVX-1 a considerable distance from the DTC-100 as well as the JVC deck. Initial tests have gone well.

One thing I haven't figured out how to do concerns timer recordings from the AVX-1. I know, from what has been posted, that I can't or should not be using the timer function of the DTC-100. What I was hoping to do was to set the DTC-100 to the station I want to record (HBO) and set a timed recording on the JVC. I have found no way on the JVC to specifify an I-Link connection to start and stop recording at a specified time. I was hoping to tape a movie that was being shown in the middle of the night.

Have I missed something? How are others able to make recordings utilizing the AVX-1 and the JVC in unattended mode?

I'll read through this thread again, but any quick advice would be appreciated.

Happy Holidays,
Ron

The i-link is not a source option from the timer of the 30K or the Mits, unlike the Panny PV-HD1000.

The modded DTC-100's timer can control the 30K for OTA recordings but not from DirecTV.

The only option currently is to use an external remote control with macros to set-up the JVC to record at a given time after all other steps in the process have been performed.

Am going to bed early tonight so I can take RIchard and family to the airport. And no, I didnt get any new s/w. When I dropped some stuff at his house yesterday, it was cute because I was not going to talk about the s/w. He brought it up that Todd had bugged him so I could do it now. I just looked at him and said I didnt need to say anymore since he knew I am disappointed. This is the max pressure I can do is do silent pressure on him.

Dave

tmitchmd--
Thanks for the quick response. I'll give that a try, by leaving the DTC100 and the AVX-1 on, and setting a macro timer on my Pronto to start and stop recorder at the desired time. That should work OK.

Again, thanks,
Ron

Ron,

I have had good success with the Pronto timers, etc. Just make sure that you leave a bit of a time cushion since I can't seem to get my Pronto internal clock to stay with the DIRECTV one. You would hate to miss the start of your record time.

Happy Holidays!
Jeff

Maybe this question has been asked before -
and I think I know the answer, but:
Any chance the HDVR speaks 5c such that you
could play a D-Theater tape through the DTC100?

My guess is no - that D-Theater tapes played on the JVC will not play through the DTC100 but I just wanted to check.

Jeff:

I've got it working now with a Pronto macro. I made several short recordings of HD Net, with a macro that starts at designated time, and powers on JVC and then starts RECORD. The stop macro hits STOP and powers off JVC.

My observation on several of these recordings is that there is pixelization. I'm thinking that maybe I should be leaving the JVC on, and just have the macro start RECORD.

What do you do as far as powering the JVC? Do you let the macro power it on, or just leave it on?

Ron

Ron,

I've found that my best success is to put a tape in the 30k, go to channel 2, power cycle the 30k and then push the reset button on the avx1. Then I have my macro channel down, delay and record. I used to have my remote stop the recording and power down the 30k, but then it didn't give me any great clues if things failed. Now I just let things go and if the 30k doesn't show I-2 when I check it then I know something went wrong and I don't have to check the tape. This could be a mistake in setting the timer on my part, the parts not syncing to I-2 or something else. This does happen sometimes and many times I run things without my external monitor and just take my chances that things are in the right state.

--Darin

Darin,

Do you think that your method would lessen the chance of pixelation, rather than just leaving the recorder powered on and set for I-2? Since this is all new for me (just got the AVX-1 and modified DTC-100 hooked up yesterday), I need to keep experimenting and figure out the most reliable sequence for OTA vs. DirecTV recording.

Ron

Ron, I leave the channel up set to channel 2 and use the macro to channel down after a delay of 12 seconds to give the JVC time to sense teh firewire ( seems silly , but is't what works ) and then channel down once to I-2 Another delay ( 5 or 6 seconds ( don't remember which ) and then record. That has worked for me in the past. Just leaving the AVX processing and teh JVC set to I-2 for extended perods of time always seem to lead to a failed recording.

Good luck,

Jeff

Darin & Jeff:

Just a few confirmation questions.

Do you leave the firewire from the AVX-1 unplugged, until needed for making a DirecTV recording? Note: I have configured the wiring the way they recommended, i.e., AVX-1 to front of JVC.

When writing the macro to turn on the JVC, is POWER ON the first command, or do you leave the JVC in the on position?

Can the AVX-1 be left on all the time, even while not connected to the JVC, or is rebooting, periodically recommended?

I'll give your recommendations a try, and let's see what happens.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays,
Ron

Ron,

I don't think that unplugging the power to the AVX-1 every once in a while would have any negative downside, but I'm not sure that it is necessary. Rebooting it is, though.

As Jeff said, leaving the 30k on I-2 until you are ready to record can cause problems. The reason is that the AVX-1 has all this time to jump off the tracks. In my setup the AVX-1 is in a state where it is waiting to sense the 30k. It can sit in that state for hours without any chance (I think) of messing up. It isn't until my remote channels down to I-2 that they AVX-1 starts doing the real work. If I connect my monitor to the AVX-1 before a recording the last message from it will be that it is waiting.

If I'm recording something at 3 pm I setup everything before I go to work so that the remote can take care of starting things. I have the AVX-1 connected to the back of my 30k with a 6 pin to 4 pin cable. The DTC100 is connected to the front of my 30k. I connect all the physical stuff, put the DTC100 on the right channel, put the 30k on channel 2, power cycle the 30k and push the reset button on the AVX-1. Then it is just a matter of setting up the remote to only do 2 things (other than the delay) - channel down and record. I don't have the remote do anything with the power (the 30k is left on), since this would mean that there was more time and steps between the remote starting up and the recording starting. To me that just means more chance for failure. Catching a 5.1 movie on HBO after the 5.1 sound starts is important, which is another reason that I want less steps.

I'm always disconnecting the firewire cables to move my 30k while I use it, but they are left connected after I setup for a recording, as I mentioned.

--Darin

Hey guys! I experienced an audio failure last night on HDNET while recording the Heart concert. The entire recording was absolutely flawless until 1 hour and 12 minutes in and then lost audio entirely ( picture remained flawless ). I know that there was not an issue with the Sat feed with losing the sound as I was in anadjacent room during the last part of the recording session and heard the last 3 songs. Only the AVX lost the audio. I had not had this happen on such a short recording before and never before on HDNET. I had only experienced this on LOONGG sessions of leaving the AVX-1 on HBO overnight or something like that. Just informational.

Jeff

Last night I set up a recording of Live From Bagdad from HBO. I used the Pronto timer to start and stop the JVC recorder, following the steps suggested above by Darin and Jeff. My wife and I just finished watching the movie, and I'm happy to report that it was GLITCH FREE. It was an absolutely perfect recording. Not a bad movie either. Pretty good audio effects, particularly when the bombing began. My dog thought the house was being attacked, and hid from that point on.

This was the first glitch free recording I've had from DirecTV, although I've only had the 169 eqt. running for only four days. I previously recorded a Showtime movie the other evening, and had at least six dropouts.

Since some cant seem to get a good HBO, looks like you are doing well.

dave

Dave,
The chap I referred has gotten four hours of Sopranos in his first two nights off HBO.
Says things are going "swimmingly."

Thats amazing. So, how can some have such great luck with HBO, and others cant? This is like trying to find the root cause of the JVC.
Todd, your chap I hope is going to be so so so COOL!! I just love this stuff for reasons you and I talk about all the time. I always support the little guy.

Dave

My new hypothesis for successful HBO recordings:

Reboot the AVX-1 and keep the JVC poised at Channel Two until the HBO picture switches to widescreen at the very beginning of any movie or show.
Then channel down to the AVX-1s i-link # on the JVC and then hit record button when the picture appears from the JVC's component output.

The HBO signal during any given movie or show should stay consistent for the duration of that show, and thus synch loss should not occur until after that particular show's conclusion.

Anybody care to put this to the test?

Todd, interesting process. I think we know if the signal is changed, like with PPV, the avx-1 cant recover. Is HBO doing this a lot? Would be interested in the results.

dave

The successful recording the other evening I described, Live from Bagdad, had the recording begin a few minutes before the start time, and HBO was not in wide screen. They were showing the end of the NFL show and also showed some promos. Then they switched to wide screen for the movie. As I mentioned -- no glitches. Just relating my own experience.

By the way, I located a surplus 9 inch point of sale VGA monitor which I've attached to the AVX-1 to watch its messages as it attempts to find the signal. While not necessary, it's very helpful if you need to detect what is going on with the AVX-1.

Ron, I have a monitor hooked to my avx-1 also for the same reason.

Dave

tmitchmd, thats my exact process for Sho-HD. As soon as I hear the 'pop' as it switches to 5.1 then I turn on the 30k.

Holey smokes, Dave!

Is this a new years resolution to swear off the HDTV or something?

Maybe you should wait for the champagne to wear off before making a decision...

Happy New Year, Dave.

What will you do with your spare time from now on?

Good luck!

Dave:
Does this mean you're finished trying to work out the issues with both JVC and Richard???

I think I know what Dave is feeling, but, then, maybe not. They always say that with model rail roading you can never finish the layout.

I know I don't attempt to record HD off DirecTv as much as I used to. For the most part the big movies have already been viewed by the family via our Net Flix DVD rental subscription. There is no hassle with the DVD and anybody can initiate the process. Operating the 169 Time system can still be an adventure, and no one else in the family will go near it. So I guess my interest has waned as we are at a stand still until the hoped for new AVS-1 software is available or a new toy makes an appearance. It seems the model train layout is completed (for now).

Dave: (With the right work) You can put an ethernet on a DirecTiVo and extract SD recordings to a PC and burn them on DVD or whatever. It is an "engineering project" to do that but it does work today.

For that reason I would say that 169time should never bother trying to do anything with SD.

PVR, okay, didnt know that, so agree with you. Richard already said wont do this 169time is HD only.

dave

Has anyone successfully tested the new DD5.1 flagged audio on channel 199 with recording and the AVX-1. So far, DirecTV is maintaining always on flags for this.

I've been way too busy to take the time out to do some testing but may get to it later this evening.

Has anyone successfully tested the new DD5.1 flagged audio on channel 199 with recording and the AVX-1. So far, DirecTV is maintaining always on flags for this.

I've been way too busy to take the time out to do some testing but may get to it later this evening.

Don - I AVX-1 recorded a test segment to see if the DD5.1 might help me with HiPix playback. It plays back fine (DD5.1 and all) through the DTC100 but still has problems when I pull it into a PC and try to play it with the HiPix.

Don:
Actually, yesterday I was recording the hockey game through the AVX-1 without realizing that it was in 5.1. Then I turned on my receiver and saw that it indicated 5.1. So after about 45 minutes of recording, I played back the tape, and it was a perfect 5.1 recording.

Ron

Decided to go and load up the Mits with an ST120 and record for awhile. Haven't had the AVX on in weeks but it is recording away on whatever HDNet is doing.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully mine will be as perfect as yours so I don't need to worry when I want to record something important.

I know it may be a mistake to ask this question, since it could open a can of worms. I'm not really looking for a debate of right or wrong, but I am curious as to the facts. When we're done with this stuff is it legal to sell originals of things that we've recorded? I'm sure we can't make multiple copies, but I didn't think we could even legally sell a single copy of something we've recorded OTA or satellite - whether HD or SD. I didn't think the fair use rules applied to selling recordings. I know it covers loaning things to family and friends, but that is a different matter.

Thanks,
Darin

Dave, I understand your decision and support you 100%. My family won't touch the avx-1 either and think I'm nuts. (correction - the know I'm nuts.) I have more projects too but i'll still enjoy the avx stuff - we were the first!!

Darin- The way it was explained to me in a seminar on copyrights for video producers was a fair use recording may not be distributed, meaning sold, copied and sold, rented, loaned,or given away free or for favor. A licensed purchased or obtained free licensed copy may be sold as long as no copies remain in the seller's posession.

Thanks Don. I thought I had read recently that they could be loaned to family and friends, but it sounds like I was wrong from your interpretation. I can't imagine somebody telling their mother that she couldn't borrow one of their tapes, but I at least like to know what the rules are. I won't be selling any of my recordings, though.

--Darin

I'm not sure this is actually contained in the law but it was explained to me that the non-distribution was within the same household. eg. I could loan a fair use recording to my daughter who lives here but after she moved to another residence, it would violate the distribution of fair use.

Other fair use rights for distribution are when the copy is distributed for a bonafied educational institution. Making a copy for showing in a classroom in a recognized school but not for the informal edification of your distribution users. It often amazes me that some people will just make up their own rules to justify in their concious what they do. Especially in this area.

Okay, Richard is back. Just got them from the airport.

dave

What. I can't loan out my tapes outside my home and usage, and not have it be distribution. ;) I could very well be wrong but I thought you would not be able to loan a tape to relatives that lived outside your home. if it is permissible I would be interested to know.

Is it still possible to purchase the 169time systems? And if so, do I need the AVX-1? Or can I just use the Firewire modification to connect to my HD30K?

And can i do my own install? Is it complex, or doable for someone with moderate technical skills?

Yes, but you must provide dtc100 now. Dont need avx-1 if dont need direct tv. Can do OTA from dtc100 169time to jvc.

Can do own install but its not worth it in my opinion.

dave

Dave- Do you know how many people did their own install, successfully on the HDVR board? Knowing how many did it with no problems vs. how many tried and needed Richard to finish it would be a good indicator as to how difficult this task is.

Well I finally found their tutorial on how to do it yourself and even though I am technically proficient I would be quite hesitant to take it on, at least not without more detailed instructions.


Regarding the AVX-1 - so that item is needed to record DTV HD content? I thought the AVX-1 was just a PC that allowed recording to a hardrive.

So even if I get the firewire port installed, I still need the AVX-1 to record DTV content. What function does the AVX-1 perform ?

Don, I dont know, but I have seen some of the attempts at 169time and they were pretty bad.

AVX-1 is a device to tweak the bits from direct tv and get them ready for a DVHS recorder. There is no hard drive in the avx-1, only a CDrom.

I used a dish 5000 and modulator to record HBO, SHO and CBS. I use a UHF antenna to do std OTA on NBC, ABC, etc.

dave

I did the install myself. It requires someone with experienced soldering (and desoldering) skills on surface mount components. Not for the lighthearted. The surgery took me about three hours.

-Dylan

Dylan-

I agree. It took me about 3 hours too. I think I could have saved an hour but the first hole drilling was the hard part as I tried to do it with several standard drill bits. I broke down and went to the hardware store and bought a center punch drill bit for sheet steel of the proper size and the second hole was done in a few seconds. The soldering was not difficult at all but I use magnifying head gear and a temp controlled soldering station. I also have an octopus system to hold parts in place while I use both hands for the solder and iron. The right tools makes it much easier. I also worked in front of a computer display so I could bring up the pics to work by.

Well I have a DTC100 now, but am not sure how to initiate the transaction with 169time.

Do I just package it up and send it off to them? And pay through Paypal?

Or give them a call and leave a VM?

Go to the 169time website, and either call the number there, or write them about what you would like to do

dave

I found drilling the holes to be the easy part. But it was sure downhill from there. I considered myself very proficient at soldering (after all I had built four HEATHKIT tv's in my day), but I managed to butcher the circuit board because of inexperience with "newer" procedures. Richard bailed me out, however.

My hat is off to anybody who can do the soldering in three hours because of the lack of familiarity with the DTC-100 circuit board and the location of the components on the board.

Yes soldering surface mount is not something I would care to spend alot of time with. That is where having the right tools helps mightily.

Thanks for all the help folks. Hopefully I can get on board and begin to enjoy my own HD recording soon.

It normally takes me an hour to do the whole mod. I have allot of experience in small circuit SMT stuff. Also I am lucky to have good sight.

If you can unsolder and re-solder SMT stuff you will be OK.

Everybody has their limits. I quit when it involves the butane torch work, to solder a multipin LSIC. The single wires of the HDVR was no sweat!

I made a partial recording, last night, of Training Day from HBO, through the AVX-1. Upon playback, I noticed significant out of sync between video and audio. I then went and viewed the original I-link signal being passed to my JVC 30K and it looked fine. It's just that the recording I made, had severe issues.

Not remembering whether or not this has been previously discussed here, has anyone else encountered this issue when recording through the AVX-1? Could this be one of the software enhancements we can expect in a future release?

Thanks,
Ron

Ron,

Used to get that fairly often on HBO recordings, but rarely on HDNET or SHO. The addition of the RS pad to reduce reflections has reduced that to almost zero failure rate. BUT, I make sure that my JVC has been reset or rather been power cold booted by unplugging the unit for a short time occasionally and the AVX-1 reset fairly close to the start time. The JVC decoder seems to "get full" and unable to handle everything, so a dump of its memory by unplugging seems to work best. It's not the best solution, but seems to work more reliably than most other things we have tried.

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff,
I do remember discussion of the RS pad. I believe that's the attenuator that's put on the satellite cable, if I remember correctly. So you are saying that it's too much signal?

I'll try the AVX-1 reset and the JVC reset, and see what happens.

Ron

Its relections, line matching, etc.

Dave

Dave:

What's the cure??

Ron

Hey guys, a while back (perhaps on the now destroyed thread?) there was talk about finding cables with the ferrite beads already built in. I found a website that sells some pretty decent cables with beads for about 1/2 to 1/3rd the retail price of the same brand of cables:

http://www.cablesamerica.com/categories.asp?cat%5Fid=2100

It is the "Ultima" brand of cables that are manufactuered by www.cablestogo.com - I think the two companies may be related somehow, bur cablesamerica is definitely way cheaper for the same product. I ordered a boatload and am pretty happy so far.

I have been told the web site has actually been updated.

Dave

Did you catch in theFeb 2003 widescreen review, Gary answered a question from Richard Leroy about his dtc100 STB. One part of his answer was all about the 169time solution.

Thanks Gary

dave

Here is a question I just got from Richard to help with his progress in next version of the avx-1 sw.

fyi

169time requests feedback.

This request is specifically for those 169time.com AVX1 users that can
receive and record both OTA and DirecTV, including those that get OTA that
is synthesized by a Dish 5000 modulator or Sencore modulator, and actual DTV OTA broadcasts. 169time would appreciate user feedback as to how the AVX1 processing of OTA compares with AVX1 processing of DirecTV HDTV satellite based signals.

Although the AVX1's primary function is to enable digital recording of HDTV
from satellite, it can also be used to view and record a single OTA based
channel. This is useful in that it allows selection of a particular program
to be viewed on the JVC deck's outputs when more than one program is being broadcast on the same DTV channel, however this is not the reason for requesting the feedback.

It is likely that to get the information needed here, additional analysis by
the AVX1 user would be needed, by using the AVX1 in a way that is similar to the way that is used to recording HDTV from DirecTV, but with the DTC100 (or PSHD105) tuned to a digital OTA channel, either or both from local reception of digital television or the output of the Dish 5000 modulator.

It is not necessary to record the signal to provide this feedback. Instead
of recording, use the JVC deck's component YPrPb and audio outputs to
monitor the signal, and check it periodically for any anomaly while the STB
is tuned to a OTA DTV channel.

Either a SD or HD OTA DTV signal can be used.

When doing this be sure that the AVX1 is actually engaged. That is, ensure
that the JVC deck has selected the AVX1 as the ILink input source, and that
the DTC100's front panel light is not flashing, thus ensuring that the
DTC100 is not selected as the digital firewire source for the deck.

The ultimate question is how long the AVX1 and deck together keep a stable signal coming out of the JVC deck's outputs. If several OTA sources are available, the experiment can be conducted for each OTA source, to determine if there is any difference.

The reason why 169time is requesting this feedback is that this will help
169time clarify the success or problems encountered within the user base of AVX1 application. 169time understands that improvement is desirable for the success rate of satellite recording. An update for the AVX1 is in
development. The AVX1 uses a very similar process to handle OTA recording as is used for satellite recording. By determining the success rate for OTA DTV with the AVX1 through this request, 169time will be able to understand the rate of proper operation of those sections of the AVX1 process that are common to both OTA and satellite processing.


fyi


Dave

Dave:

I have recorded with 100% accuracy when the DTC100 was set to a digital OTA station and the AVX1 had been selected on the JVC 30K, when comparing the difference between recording and or monitoring the signal by the JVC30k decks component out of Directv HBOHD, SHOHD, and HDNET vs OTA digital the following have been observed:

1) OTA signal does not go into a "funk" when changing channels, or interupting the signal by selecting menu etc., even when AVX1 is selected by JVC30K deck, Directv HBOHD,SHOHD, and HDNET goes into "funk" under the same conditions.

2)When the AVX1 is selected by the JVC30K deck and the DTC100 is tuned to Directv HD the signal will eventually over time go into a "funk", while I have not tried it yet I think the signal from OTA DTC100, and the AVX1 selected can display indefinately without going into "funk"

Lastly, cablevision on LI was showing HBOHD via 8vsb and I had succesfully recorded that signal when the AVX1 was selected with 100% accuracy.

I left the DTC100 tuned to CBS digital OTA and the AVX1 selected this morning and will monitor the JVC30K component out when I get home tonight.

Lon

Thanks, will send to richard. Folks, the more data the better chance he will "fix" the right area that folks are really seeing.

Thanks Lon again.

Dave

Dave:

If Richard needs to contact me he can email me @ groltd@msn.com.

The Avx1 is soooooo close to reliable, any way I can help I will.


Lon

OTA signal is still stable 12 hours later when payed thru AVX1 and JVC30K, again I think the OTA will continue to be stable indefinately.

Lon

Lon, thanks.

Sent your notes to Richard.

Dave

Dave:

What if anything new has Richard learned from the new data.

Lon

I am not sure. He asked me that other day if anyone else posted data and I said no. He has been asking me a few questions, etc the last few days which imply he is making another stab at the avx-1 stuff. Havent heard these type of comments in a long time so cross those fingers again.

dave

Dave,

I haven't been able to try and get data for their request as I actually have been taping quite a bit of DIRECTV and unable to have it set on OTA.

Jeff

Just saying you have been able to record direct is great news. Richard is just trying to collect as much data as possible to try and not miss anything.

dave

Has anyone heard from JVC's engineers or Mearks? I'm waiting for JVC or someone on the forum to give the go ahead to send my unit into their repair facilities.

Thanks

Sent my deck on 2-25 to the Aurora ,Il. JVC repair facility. Saturday Night Live fans may recall that Aurora Il. was the fictional home of "Wayne's World". Somehow seems fitting. Got my deck back 4-1(April Fools Day) from the Pinebrook, NJ. JVC service facility. First thing I noticed was they forgot my remote. They promised to send me another after I called them.The deck was not dented or scratched as some had reported. Came back in a different box.
The invoice noted only one part used: " KIT-DH30000U2 UPGRADE KIT"

SVC PERFORMED: Rewriting Program, Alignment tape Path, Mechanical Part.

There were no other comments or descriptions of the work performed.

Also included was a one page insert which read as follows:

" JVC-English-Attention-
-Do not use S-VHS cassette to record program in D-VHS mode. D-VHS recording made on S-VHS cassette may cause block noise. Use D-VHS cassette only when you record program in D-VHS mode.
-Make sure the the DIGITAL 3-DNR lamp is lit on the VCR when playing back a cassette recorded in D-VHS mode. If not, press DIGITAL 3-DNR button on the front panel so that the DIGITAL 3-DNR lamp lights up.
-When black noise appears on the TV screen, clean the video heads by playing back DFC-2 D-VHS cleaning cassette for 15-seconds. If it persists, repeat the procedure until the block noise clears. Consult your JVC dealer if block noise does not clear."

The above information was repeated in French.

At the bottom:" LPTO542-004A 0303-MN-ID-VP (DH30000/VDA300)"

I haven't decided if I will continue to use my Fuji T-160 S-VHS tapes. I don't think they were ever the problem but since I have been officially warned not to use them, JVC could conceivably argue that they are the cause should I have any further D-VHS problems. (Of course there is no concern for regular S-VHS use)I don't have the JVC cleaning tape(DFC-2) they referred to nor am I familiar with it.
Still haven't talked to Marek since my last post so I don't have any info regarding what engineering may discovered as a root cause of the problems. It would be particularly interesting to hear JVC's analysis of the tape transport issues raised by Roger(Gridleak) and others here.
I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to send their unit in to be updated as a precaution if it was not already having problems unless JVC urged everyone to do so. I will ask Marek if he recommends this. Dave (H2OFUN) posted here that three of his upgraded units failed quickly.
When I reconnected the unit, it immediately properly recognized both the HDVR and AVX-1 firewire signals. I have not tried to record anything since I again hooked it up , but it did play back a Sopranos HD-DVHS tape without a glitch. This was a tape that would not play at all before it was serviced. It is too early to draw any conclusions as to whether the operation was a success, but so far the patient looks good.

I will post any new info as it is received.

Steve Rogers

Steve:

Great update, but JVC30K issues and fixes should be posted here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=225059 instead, as this thread is related to 169time AVX1.


Lon

Lon,
Thanks. That's where I thought I had posted it. I'm not sure how it ended up in this thread.
Steve

Has anyone experimented with using a firewire hub in their setup? I just picked on up and am going to see what happens. I figure at least if it works, it gives me an easy way to disconnect firewire devices from each other if needed (especially my TV) without having to pull out the equipment rack!

I use a firewire hub with two HD1000 DVHS decks and a Samsung 165 ATSC tuner.

Works perfectly.

Firewire hub will not work with AVX1.

Lon

When you say it wont work with a hub, does that mean with the hub in line between the AVX1 and the DTC100/DVHS? Or cant the hub be anywhere in the firewire chain? For example, will this work:

Rest of chain <-> HUB <-> DVHS <-> DTC100 <-> AVX

Where the rest of the chain includes other firewire devices such as my TV and another DVHS deck.

If the AVX1 is present anywhere in the hub the AVX1 will not work reliably period.

The set-up must be DVHS, DTC100, and AVX1 ONLY.


Lon

Ok thanks for the info. Saves me time trying to make it work. :)

I am feeling some positive vibs. ;)

dave

Dave:

Since we are past April 1st, I know your post is not an April Fools joke.

But what a tease!, very unlike you so I am excited.

Lon

;)

dave

Originally posted by h2ofun
:o)

dave

What does:o), mean.

;)

dave

Its gotten very very hot in my house ;)

dave

And people said it couldnt or wouldnt be done. ;)

dave

Dave:

If Richard pulls this off we should vote him in for engineer of the year, yet keep it very quite so the MPAA doesn't catch wind.

When can I expect my update?

Lon

;)

Dave

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)



Lon

Keep watching for updates

Dave

;)

5 resyncs in 12 hours on HBO, one resync per show change.

;)

I can feel the power. And it feels SOOOO good.

Stay here for the latest news. And I dont get paid for this.

Dave

Dave:

can you briefly describe the update, is it a new CD Rom disc, or a hardware revision?


Lon

Not yet, but stay tuned. Could be very very very soon.

dave

Have one more issue to resolve, then ;)

And, just think what else the avx-1 in working order can be used for.
I just love this stuff.

14 hours HBO, 5 resyncs. Looking ....... ;)
Still perfect.

(So far, resyncs are when the programming is changing on HBO. Expected.)

This is so so so cool. Sure glad I am not doing this on April 1st.

dave

PLEASE, do not call, write, anything to 169time or I am dead meat!!
I will post the info as soon as we get one last bug resolved. I am still doing
testing.

Dave

Dave,

I see frequent glitches when playing back D-VHS tapes made from the AVX-1 through all HD decoders other than the DTC-100. The glitches only affect the video, not audio. Is this one of the bugs that's being looked at?

-Dylan

There has been some basic rewriting of the code, so anything from the past is maybe a dont care.

Folks, tell me what to try to kill it. I have HBO, HDnet and PPV going.
I dont have SHO. I have a hub between the avx-1 and dvhs deck so the cabling is about 25 feet. I change channels, I unplug the sat signal, I let the deck see the dtc100 and then back to the avx-1. I pull the guide up and then back off. I have yet to make it fail or have a lip sync issue.

What else can I try to test before ....


Dave

Dave:

Try using the timer record function of the DTC100 to record and change channels.

Lon

The timer function to start and stop deck is not in this release if thats whats being asked. This release goal is stability.

Dave

Dave:

That is not my question.

If you go into the DTC100 menu under timers you can set the DTC100 to control the JVC30 for timer record, this works like a charm with the HDVR and JVC30K for timer record OTA, the problem with the DTC100 and HDVR1 and AVX1 timer record was stability of the signal. So give it a try.

Lon

Originally posted by h2ofun
The timer function to start and stop deck is not in this release if thats whats being asked. This release goal is stability.

Dave

Sounds like Richard had been har at work. If changing channels doesn't mess things up try disconnecting your sat signal for a couple minutes. If that doesn't mess it up then looks like we have a winner.

Lon, Richard has already told me the timer doesnt work. He work the code.
Knows the stuff inside and out. Not going to waste my time. Hopefully timer and straight to PC will be in the next rev.

Jeff, I change channels fro HD to HD and HD to SD back to HDm havent made it fail. I unplugged the sat cable for 5 minutes. Hooked back up and synced right back. Put guide on for a while, which stops the processing, took off and went right back to working.

Again, I havent been able to get it to fail, and 99% of what I am trying is HBO. Now, we are working to get one more problemo fixed then maybe .....

;0

Dave

You might try stacking the three units, or, at the least, placing them close together. It would be great if we didn't have to worry about spacing among the units.

I still utilize the Radio Shack Inline Amp. I assume you have tried it with, and without, the amp.

I trust the "fix" will be compatible with the Mits as well as the 30K.

Richard is testing with US 30k and I believe Japan 30K. I am using victor 35K. We will have to let you guys do the Mits since we dont have one.

I will go take the line amp out if I have in which I dont think I do.

My two units are next to each other. Let me move the computer next to now.

Dave

Okay, no pad being used.

I have laid the computer right on the dtc100, with the dvhs deck underneath these. (This is never worked for me in the past. So far, no problems. )

Dave