Indianapolis / Terre Haute / Lafayette, IN - HDTV [Text View] - Page 14

AlanSaysYo

10-25-06, 09:03 PM

Having a problem receiving WTHR-DT and I thought I might try here first for help... This is for all of you antenna and reception experts out there.

I'm in the Cumberland area and have been here since June. When I moved in, I didn't have any issues receiving WTHR. In fact, the signal was so strong that when my idiot DirecTV installer plugged the "antenna in" jack on my receiver to the back of my TV via coax, I actually picked up the station.

Everything had been fine up until about three weeks ago. Since then, I've slowly been losing signal on WTHR-DT, and my primetime recordings have either been partial or have failed to record at all. As of the beginning of this week, I haven't been able to salvage five good minutes out of any given hour of nighttime programming. I get a lot of frozen, blocky pictures constantly and a blip of audio every now and then. I pick up every other major station in the area (ABC, CBS, PBS, Fox, CW, and MYTV) flawlessly.

My antenna is an amplified Terk indoor antenna which, as I mentioned earlier, worked very well during the summer. Now here's the strange part... I have a separate antenna on another HDTV elsewhere in the house (with a theoretically poorer view of the general tower direction) and it picks up WTHR without a problem, day or night. Switching the antennas doesn't help, so that would naturally lead to questioning the functionality of the receiver itself. I'd think that if one tuner were broken, it wouldn't be able to receive any station on that tuner, not just WTHR selectively. Also, if it were a receiver problem, I doubt it would have become progressively worse over the past few weeks... it likely would have just stopped working altogether one day.

I have no tall trees in the area, no hills, and the antenna having problems is in an optimal position to grab a signal. It just doesn't work. I thought this time of year was supposed to be more forgiving to television signals, yet WTHR's signal is getting worse. Is there any chance it might be overpowered by another signal? The signal seems to be worst when the receiver is recording two programs over the air simultaneously... could that be an issue? If so, why has this just started happening now?

Any suggestions? If not, letting me know where I might get more help on this issue would be very much appreciated. I've already missed episodes of Heroes, Studio 60, and 30 Rock... I'm glad The Office is a repeat this week, because my wife would kill me if it failed to record ;)

rickaren

10-25-06, 09:38 PM

Well I see you have D* so do you have a HR10-250 DVR or something else? Anyway with recent up-grades in software have you re-scanned your Locals to your DVR or receiver? What are the readings? Have you re-booted it? If you don't have a DVR have you re-set your TV? Un-plug it. Checked it's setup? Check all cable connections inside? Is the amplified Terk powered up and plugged in? ALL of these things have caused problems in the past. Should be something real simple like the above. As I stated above purchase another antenna and see if that corrects anything. If not return it for a full return and move on. I have been surprised with the inexpensive WalMart brand units in the past. GOOD LUCK!

AlanSaysYo

10-25-06, 09:51 PM

Good call on rescanning for channels. I wandered over to the HD Reception Equipment board and saw that in the FAQ... felt kinda silly for not having thought of that. The receiver has been rebooted a few times since the upgrade, but I haven't scanned for channels again, so hopefully that's it. Of course, just my luck it would require that the receiver stop recording, and I have recordings going for awhile, so I'll cross my fingers for tomorrow morning.

hoosierfan227

10-26-06, 07:25 AM

Over in Tivo Community forum there is a thread on a fix many people have done when losing OTA signal. I have not done this so I cannot vouch for it but something you might want to consider. Also what is the signal strength you are getting? Link below for the fix:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=312472

AlanSaysYo

10-26-06, 08:26 AM

Thanks... I noticed that a couple days ago but I didn't want to go to that trouble unless I didn't have any other options. I did open up the box and reseat the cables, but that didn't seem to help.

I did a channel scan this morning and it now shows WTHR with 90-92 signal strength, but we'll see what it looks like tonight.

chatreez

10-26-06, 01:11 PM

hoosierfan227

10-26-06, 06:32 PM

I tried to search for this, but no luck. I'm considering dish network cuz it's cheaper than comcast. I wonder if dish network can receive local HD channels or do I need an ota antenna? Please help, thanks!

Try the Dish Network website:

https://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/customernetqual/prepAddress.do

Tersanyus

10-26-06, 07:29 PM

furball43

10-26-06, 08:38 PM

Saw a commercial on WTHR stating that they will be the first to broadcast the news in HD soon. Who knows what soon actually means. Could be anytime next year.

Still, have been wondering who in town would be first to broadcast the news in full Hi Def.

This should clear things up a bit:

HD News Comes to Indianapolis Station
By Allison Romano -- Broadcasting & Cable, 10/16/2006

It's a good read, and here is the relevant part:

When Indianapolis viewers tune in for local news in November sweeps, one station may stand out in this news-heavy market. Next month, NBC affiliate WTHR, a Dispatch Broadcasting outlet, plans to switch to high-definition broadcasting for its local news, making it the first station in Indiana—and one of only about a dozen in the country—to broadcast local content in HD.

At first, WTHR will transition its studio cameras to HD; it plans to convert its field, weather and helicopter cameras next year. While only 15% of the market currently has HD sets, General Manager Rich Pegram says his station wanted to get ahead of technology: “We want to be first in the market, and we want to be the leader.”

Search "WTHR" at broadcastingandcable com for the full article.

XavierMike

10-26-06, 09:09 PM

Any word when WXIN, or WISH will have their HD feeds on D*TV?

AlanSaysYo

10-27-06, 07:22 AM

This should clear things up a bit:

HD News Comes to Indianapolis Station
By Allison Romano -- Broadcasting & Cable, 10/16/2006

It's a good read, and here is the relevant part:

When Indianapolis viewers tune in for local news in November sweeps, one station may stand out in this news-heavy market. Next month, NBC affiliate WTHR, a Dispatch Broadcasting outlet, plans to switch to high-definition broadcasting for its local news, making it the first station in Indiana—and one of only about a dozen in the country—to broadcast local content in HD.

At first, WTHR will transition its studio cameras to HD; it plans to convert its field, weather and helicopter cameras next year. While only 15% of the market currently has HD sets, General Manager Rich Pegram says his station wanted to get ahead of technology: “We want to be first in the market, and we want to be the leader.”

Search "WTHR" at broadcastingandcable com for the full article.

Awesome news!

MassNerder

10-27-06, 01:25 PM

Any word when WXIN, or WISH will have their HD feeds on D*TV?

I was getting pretty indignant about this issue a while back. It still pisses me off (I don't want a giant antenna in my back yard to get WISH or WXIN OTA (if it would even work with all the trees and such). No one seems to be able to say anything other than contractual negotiations continue.

WISHTV is owned by LIN TV Corp. (http://www.lintv.com/) As you can see, Indianapolis is their biggest market. They also air colts games in HD. I'm guessing they want a pretty penny to carry the signal. It could also be a corporate thing too. LIN owns Hartford's ABC and Austin's NBC affiliates. Neither of those are on D* in HD.

Were WXIN to be owned by Newscorp...well...it'd be up there faster than Jack Bauer on crack. However, WXIN is owned by the folks at Tribune Broadcasting (www.tribune.com). Tribune is showing no love either as their fox stations are not available in Seattle, Sacramento and Hartford. Interestingly enough, the Fox station is the ONLY station missing in Sacramento.

What it comes down to, fellas, is that the end user is feeling the effects of big companies owning local stations. Complaining to WISHTV or WXIN won't really solve anything because I'm willing to bet this is all out of their hands (given the pattern shown here). So all we can do now is sit, wait and wonder...though I may flesh this list out a little bit better and post something on dbstalk with some contact info. Who knows......probably not worth the effort anyway.....

Tersanyus

10-27-06, 06:40 PM

Hence why I am soooo happy I can get all of the locals in HD from an outdoor antenna. Best part about it is that they are all free that way!

I don't mean to make light of your situation. I have Dish Network but have no interest in getting HD locals from them. They only offer the big 4 networks. No subchannels. And lower quality as they shove more of them up there on the satellite.

Just remember that like everything else, it all comes down to the almightly dollar. I still don't know how channels can charge a cable/satellite company to carry a signal that is free to air. I know there is equipment charges and such. One time charges I would understand but these signals are freely floating around in the air.

kierandill

10-27-06, 09:31 PM

Does anyone know if WTTK is broadcasting at full power from their tower in Indy? I should be able to get them if they were, but I get nothing.

Tersanyus

10-28-06, 08:56 AM

Looks like the video glitch is back on WISH-DT. It's not as bad as it used to be nor near as frequent. Last night during Ghost Wisperer, Close to Home and Numbers the glitch was there. On the live feed as I was watching the program the glitch was the same small pixellation and on my recordings it was a video dropout.

I have noticed this glitch before last night. It was just maybe once an hour. Seems this problem gets progressively worse as days go on.

Tom Weber if you read this you might try another reboot of the equipment there at WISH.

Jim_Hunt

10-28-06, 11:58 AM

wrwine3

10-29-06, 11:08 AM

Anybody else have issues with WRTV-HD yesterday? My signal level in Muncie was changing from bad to worse yesterday. I figured my antenna moved but I was getting the normal levels on all other channels. This morning it has been a little better.

jlwine

10-29-06, 08:25 PM

hoosierfan227

10-29-06, 08:56 PM

Anyone else been experiencing dramatically worse signal stength on 13.1 lately? I have antennas in the attic (From the Attic Antenna guy) for four years now. I still get 91-95 on all 6.1,8.1, 20.1 and 59.1. However, I now get 34-70 on 13.1

Scroll up and look at posts 3251-3255. I have noticed a few pixel break-ups on channel 13-1 tonight, but when I tested the off-air signal strength I am getting 92. Similar set-up as yours(HR10-250, Attic Antenna) but I did not let 6.3a upgrade happen. Maybe we can blame this on the upgrade also ;)

Tom Weber

10-30-06, 10:50 AM

Well, I had hoped to have had 5.1 back for the weekend, but I missed a small interface box, and it's now on order, overnight, they say. Cross your fingers.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WIIH / WNDY / LWS

Tom Weber

10-30-06, 10:55 AM

hoosierfan227

10-30-06, 02:12 PM

Now that I have my HD TiVo (series 3) at home, what can you tell me about the breakup that seems to occur? Live only, recorded only, or both? Frequency of occurrence? Repeatable place on screen, or random? Size?

Whatever pattern I can seem to discern should help to define the problem, and hopefully I can now see the same thing that others are seeing.

Thanks,

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / LWS / WNDY / WIIH

First of all thanks for your interest in trying to fix this. I know this forum really appreciates your contribution.

When I saw Tersanyus post it reminded me that I have been seeing it again also but agree not near the frequency that I have seen before. I have seen it in both Live and recorded material. Survivor is a program where I have noticed the break-ups a little more frequently. I realize this is not a HD program but it suffers from the pixel breakups. I was watching the Jaguars-Eagles game yesterday and had one happen at 1:58 pm. Did not notice another one after that and did not notice any during the Colts game.

When they do occur the entire screen suffers from the pixel break-up and the audio drops also. Usually lasts only 2-3 seconds. I have seen it both on Comcast cable and DirecTV using a HR10-250 TIVO.

NickIndy

10-30-06, 08:33 PM

dabl

10-30-06, 09:17 PM

dabl

10-31-06, 07:20 PM

Getting the same issue tonight reported previously in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8299097&&#post8299097)

I'm hoping goldrich sees this and can email Rick Poling at WXIN-DT assuming it's the same problem as before.

Hmmm, almost 24 hours later and nobody else seems to be complaining. Of course there were only 3 of us last time anyway....

Guess I'll try getting to Rick myself.

I gotta laugh at the state of things when a station has to reboot to get some clients to see them (not to mention the stuff I see about somebody at the station having to manually switch between hd and sd etc).

Is this really 2006?

IndyJeff

10-31-06, 07:24 PM

Hmmm, almost 24 hours later and nobody else seems to be complaining. Of course there were only 3 of us last time anyway....

Guess I'll try getting to Rick myself.

I gotta laugh at the state of things when a station has to reboot to get some clients to see them (not to mention the stuff I see about somebody at the station having to manually switch between hd and sd etc).

Is this really 2006?

You must not work with computers or electronics...

goldrich

11-01-06, 09:25 AM

Getting the same issue tonight reported previously in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8299097&&#post8299097)

I'm hoping goldrich sees this and can email Rick Poling at WXIN-DT assuming it's the same problem as before.

Dabl,

I'm in Arizona right now but I was able to confirm that in addition to your Samsung receiver, the RCA ATSC11 (STB) is once again not decoding WXIN-DT. I have sent an email to Rick about this issue. I'll post when I receive an update.

Steve

T Heller

11-01-06, 10:42 AM

My thanks to all the technical contributors to this forum -- and also to PDuncan-- without whom I would be faced with the unattractive option of subscription television, either by cable or satellite.

Thanks to their posts, I gained the courage to install last weekend an OTA antenna for my residence in Columbus, IN. (50 miles from Indy's main towers) And their recommendations for a Channel Master 4228 with a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp worked out wonderfully. OTA reception of Indy's UHF signals (and Ch. 13 WTHR) was great.

When I added a Samsung T451 receiver on Monday, I was blown away by the picture quality and wider aspect. And I was overjoyed to pull in Indy's ABC, CBS and NBC network stations in full HD glory. (I've got a Samsung DTB H260F on order; I think I'll like its smaller size and styling better.)

So again, my deepest thanks to the AVS forum and the knowledgeable contributors from whom I learned a new trick!

P.S. I'd like to learn more of the technical aspects related to transmitting and receiving digital broadcasts, so I'll likely be trying to contact some of you off-line in the near future. I have an idea that I want to explore -- and the digital broadcast realm is key to it.

dabl

11-01-06, 10:52 AM

You must not work with computers or electronics...

Both actually. I'm a computer programmer and was an audio recording engineer in another life.

I'm continually amused and amazed at how primitive things still are.

Still, as amazingly complicated as some of the stuff is, it's a miracle it works at all, and of course to be able to get HD out of the air for no cost pretty much trumps any petty complaints that could be raised.

IndyJeff

11-01-06, 11:13 AM

Both actually. I'm a computer programmer and was an audio recording engineer in another life.

I'm continually amused and amazed at how primitive things still are.

Still, as amazingly complicated as some of the stuff is, it's a miracle it works at all, and of course to be able to get HD out of the air for no cost pretty much trumps any petty complaints that could be raised.

I can't imagine that they'll have enough of the kinks in digital TV worked out in just two years when the mandatory switch occurs. People expect their TVs to "just work" and that is definitely not where things are at with DTV right now.

dabl

11-01-06, 11:25 AM

Dabl,

I'm in Arizona right now but I was able to confirm that in addition to your Samsung receiver, the RCA ATSC11 (STB) is once again not decoding WXIN-DT. I have sent an email to Rick about this issue. I'll post when I receive an update.

Steve

Thanks Steve, extremely helpful! I got a message to Rick last night and this at least makes me not look like one crazed individual suggesting there's a problem at the server end.

I just got email from Rick saying he did in fact reboot but I won't be able to test until I get home tonight. Based on past experience, I highly confident this will fix it but will followup to Rick and here as well.

--Don

goldrich

11-01-06, 11:27 AM

BRADH

11-01-06, 04:58 PM

Insight (in the Bloomington area) has added ESPN 2 HD 924, TNT-HD 925, AND MTV-HD 945. Now let hope for more HD soon.

Brad

gtaward

11-01-06, 08:15 PM

hoggy

11-01-06, 09:29 PM

We just got our insight 2.0 update last night and I'm less than impressed. Everything I've watched tonight in HD just doesn't look good. I'm worried that they really crushed bandwidth. Anybody else notice this?

YogiYahooeys

11-01-06, 10:13 PM

I'm in Evansville, IN and we received the 2.0 upgrade first. I've actually been *very* impressed with the new HD channels. What TNTHD actually broadcasts in HD and not stretched SD, looks incredible as does MHD and ESPN2HD. In fact, the sports broadcasts on TNT and ESPN2HD look better than NBC HD and CBS HD combined (ABC notwithstanding, especially since they and ESPN are one in the same).

I don't know what to tell you... Do you think that the new HD channels look worst than the existing ones?

YY

T Heller

11-02-06, 01:55 AM

Can someone recommend a antenna for an attic installation. I live in Greenwood and need to pick up as many channels as possible. I would like to also be able to pickup any HD channels. Please list any other equipment that I might need.

Thanks for any suggestions,
gta

You're pretty close in to the Indy stations compared to me down here in Columbus, so you shouldn't face any difficulty in getting all the digital signals available.

The below only applies to reception of digital signals over-the-air. These signals are in the UHF range (channels 13 and higher). There are VHF antennas, UHF antennas and some combined VHF/UHF antennas. You only need an UHF antenna to receive the digital signals (but you'll need more equipment to decode and display the digital signal, including high-definition; see below). A UHF antenna with the added equipment mentioned below will enable you to pull in all the Indy stations (ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX and probably Marion's WNDY, too.)

I would venture that you could use an interior antenna (a Terk HDTVi for instance) to do the job. It looks a little futuristic, but I think it will work; try it inside first and if you can't live with its looks, you could try it in the attic. Terk even offers an amplified version, the HDTVa, but too much amplification can overload your receiver. You shouldn't have to spend more than $40 on an antenna. Look at Amazon.com or Crutchfield's web site for starters, then Google around to locate more.

You'll have to get a coaxial cable to run from the antenna to your receiver -- and then some to connect to your TV (or to your tuner/receiver).

In addition to the antenna and coax, you will need an ATSC tuner (the receiver) which is required to handle (decode) the digital signals. High-definition pictures are only available in digital format. I mention in my 'thank you' post above that I got a Samsung SIR T451 ATSC tuner/receiver. Samsung has a somewhat newer model out now. These can be found for about $170.

But that's not quite all you'll need to enjoy high-definition pictures. You will still need a television set (or monitor) capable of displaying the higher definition pictures, at 720p and 1080i resolution levels. The best an older analog TV can produce is 480i. The antenna and receiver can deliver a high-def signal to the TV, but if it's not capable of displaying the signal in the higher resolutions, you won't be happy with the time and money you spent to get the HD digital signal into the set.

I hope this helps.

Ken H

11-02-06, 02:08 AM

Be specific. Where are you?

gtaward

11-02-06, 05:28 AM

T Heller
Thanks for your quick reply. I will check out the attenna you suggested. I found a picture of one and it looks so small, but I guess everything now days are getting smaller and better. My tv is a flat panel Sharp lcp which is capable of 1080p and my receiver is a Denon 3806. I trying to cut a bill and not use DTV or Cable for awhile so this is why I need to pick up as many stations as possible.

thanks again and I'm sure I will have more questions later

gta

hoggy

11-02-06, 06:37 AM

I'm in pendleton, IN. The picture just looks softer all the way around.

CPanther95

11-02-06, 07:50 AM

Threads merged

T Heller

11-02-06, 10:57 AM

dabl

11-02-06, 11:01 AM

Dabl,

Rick at WXIN just replied that an engineer has rebooted the Fox splicer, which is what fixed the decoding issue back in August. Let us know if this corrected your Samsung receiver this time around. I will check on the RCA, too. Thanks.

Steve

Yep, sure did.

I emailed Rick the positive results well.

Thanks for your followups, greatly appreciated.

--Don

mjconnor10

11-02-06, 11:25 AM

T Heller

11-02-06, 01:03 PM

My tv is a flat panel Sharp lcp which is capable of 1080p and my receiver is a Denon 3806.

But do you have an ATSC tuner? That's essential for picking up the over-the-air digital signals.

goldrich

11-02-06, 01:27 PM

Hi all - new to the forums, new to HDTV.

I just bought an HD screen from a friend. It doesn't have an integrated tuner, and I just bought a Voom tuner from someone in Franklin (I haven't received it yet). What sort of antenna will I need for my location (46th and High School)? I'm in an apartment, so an attic antenna isn't possible.

Antennaweb tells me that ABC/CBS/NBC/PBS/FOX are 5.6/5/7.8/5/5 miles (respectively), and that CW is 30.5 miles away (and about 90 degrees from the other signals). I suspect that getting CW will be a stretch (or at least involve investing in a higher-end antenna), while getting the other stations won't be much of an issue.

Oh, and I have eastern exposure from my balcony. Thanks in advance!

Hi and welcome to AVS Forum and HDTV. Hopefully you will find both very enjoyable.

At your location, about any decent indoor antenna should work quite nicely, provided your location doesn't suffer from any multipath issues. I recently experimented with the Zenith Silver Sensor (UHF only) antenna at my brother's house (near 56th and Eagle Creek Park). He was able to receive all the nearby DTV signals, even WISH-DT on VHF channel 9. An indoor antenna which includes the VHF dipole "rabbit ears" might be a good addition to make sure you receive a strong, solid signal from WISH-DT. Plus, after the analog stations are turned off in 2009, WTHR-DT 46 (13.1 & 13.2) will revert to its analog channel 13 (VHF).

Regarding CW, yes, WTTV-DT's signal comes from the WTTV tower in Trafalgar, which I was able to receive at my brother's location. But for the time being, it should be easy to pick up WTTK-DT 54 (29.1 & 29.2), WTTV-DT's translator station, which is currently transmitting from the WXIN tower, just 5 miles away with the other nearby towers.

The azimuth of your antenna for the nearby towers should also allow you to receive MyTV, WNDY-DT 32 (23.1). This tower is located just north of Noblesville and is operating with 1000 kW.

Good luck and happy HD viewing.

Steve

gtaward

11-02-06, 08:11 PM

But do you have an ATSC tuner? That's essential for picking up the over-the-air digital signals.

After checking my manual all it say is:

"What is required to view HDTV broadcasts on the HDTV Monitor models?
An external HDTV decoder/tuner box, a service provider (cable company or satellite company), or a terrestrial antenna is required to view HDTV programming on the AQUOS models."

Looks like I'll be buying a STB :D

Thanks again
gta

KBandy

11-02-06, 09:10 PM

Looks like I'll be buying a STB :D

Thanks again
gta
I've got a Samsung SIR-T150 that I would be willing to part with for not much money. PM if interested.

Ken

T Heller

11-03-06, 11:42 AM

For Tom Weber , Steve Goldrich:

Who manages the Electronic Program Guide datastream? The last two days, it has been providing program information for the *next* day, not the current day. As you know, without current day programming info, the datastream is really quite useless.

Could you alert whomever has this within their portfolio? Thank you mucho.

T Heller

11-03-06, 02:50 PM

Today, after restringing the coax from the antenna to my receiver and running it through a floor and wall, I'm getting "No Signal" for stations WISH (8-1, 8-2, 8-3) as well as for WTTK (29-1 and 29-2). These stations came in fine prior.

Can anyone clue me in to what I may have encountered? Might these stations share some link in the broadcast chain and the link is currently down? From what I can tell, their towers are far apart, so that hypothesis doesn't seem to make sense.

I'm getting clean OTA digital signals for 4, 6, 13, 20 and 59.

Friday, November 3, 2:30 PM EST.

T Heller

11-03-06, 03:18 PM

A bit more info on my situation:

The signal strength for WISH and 29-1 and 29-2 are very low. Three bars at most, but fluctuates as low as a single bar. The other stations are in the nine bar range and appear entirely unaffected by the re-routed cable.

The path I used to re-route the cable today runs past an (unused) electrical wall outlet. It passes near (1-2 inches) to the electrical box before emerging through a wall behind it.

Might this proximity impair the signal carried in the coax? I'm using quad-shielded cable. It's probably a 100' run, total, from roof antenna (CM 4228) and pre-amp (CM 777) to the STB (Samsung T451).

T Heller

11-03-06, 05:14 PM

Still on the hunt...

I believe when the coax was pushed up through the holed drilled through the floor, it may have caused some damage to the radial connector. (Yes, I was re-routing a completed length of cable. This end was the end that was subject to some trauma.)

The radial connector's outermost ring (most distant from the tip) was pulled off the connector, and now hangs loose on the cable. I'm judging from this that a good deal of force had been applied. The connector itself seemed fine, but perhaps some internal damage ensued.

I'm prepared to cut this connector off and reinstall another, but I wondering: if the connector is the culprit, why did I lose only a couple of stations, while the others show good strength?

goldrich

11-03-06, 07:40 PM

.................................................
I'm prepared to cut this connector off and reinstall another, but I wondering: if the connector is the culprit, why did I lose only a couple of stations, while the others show good strength?

From your previous description, I'm guessing that the connector was damaged while feeding it through the floor and it sounds as if that MIGHT be the culprit. If you have the proper tools, it shouldn't take much time to redo it. Both the inner and the outer connections of the coaxial cable are needed to receive the maximum signal from the antenna.

I'd say the reason you noticed the big signal drop from WISH-DT and WTTK-DT is because they are your "weakest link." WISH-DT is on ch. 9, a VHF frequency and you are using a UHF only antenna. The 4228 is okay at picking up the channel 9 frequency but not great, so any loss in signal strength will definitely be noticed. And WTTK-DT 54 (29.1 & 29.2) is currently transmitting at very low power (2 kW.... 2000 watts) so you need every dB of signal you can deliver to your receiver. But if you are getting WTTV-DT 48 (4.1 & 4.2) maybe you really don't need WTTK-DT since it's the same programming feed. The other local DTV signals (all UHF) are much stronger so some signal loss on your end will not be as noticeable.

The electrical outlet should not affect the TV signal running through the quad-shielded cable. It sounds as though the rest of your project is fine.

I would redo the end cable connector (F-connector) and double check to make sure all other connections (in and out of the CM 7777; out of the CM 4228; into the receiver) are correct and secure.

Steve

mjconnor10

11-03-06, 07:55 PM

Is there a current list of all HD OTA channels in Indy? It seems to be fairly piecemeal. Antennaweb printed out a good list, but that doesn't include any subchannels, and there were several that it seems weren't on there.

(Sorry if this has been answered (which I would guess it has), but 111 pages is a lot to sort through.)

T Heller

11-04-06, 08:50 AM

From your previous description, I'm guessing that the connector was damaged while feeding it through the floor and it sounds as if that MIGHT be the culprit. Both the inner and the outer connections of the coaxial cable are needed to receive the maximum signal from the antenna.

I'd say the reason you noticed the big signal drop from WISH-DT and WTTK-DT is because they are your "weakest link." WISH-DT is on ch. 9, a VHF frequency and you are using a UHF only antenna. The 4228 is okay at picking up the channel 9 frequency but not great, so any loss in signal strength will definitely be noticed. (...) The other local DTV signals (all UHF) are much stronger so some signal loss on your end will not be as noticeable.

I would redo the end cable connector (F-connector) and double check to make sure all other connections (in and out of the CM 7777; out of the CM 4228; into the receiver) are correct and secure.

Steve

Thanks for the feedback, Steve. I cut off the damaged connector and replaced it about an hour after writing that note. I rescanned, but it didn't detect WISH nor 29-1. I went to bed disappointed.

This morning I rescanned and it found WISH and 29. The WISH signal, though is weak, showing anywhere from 3 to 6 bars. I get a lot of pixel drop-out.

WNDY 23-1 comes in great, I don't remember having it before. I also was surprised to see Cincinnati's WLWT (NBC) come in crystal clear. I guess I have to attribute receiving the latter two (and I suppose even the weak WISH and 29) to favorable atmospherics this morning.

But what's puzzling me is that before restringing the cable, WISH came in just fine (an 8-bar signal strength if I recall correctly). Now, after restringing, replacing a connector and apparently favorable atmospherics, it's dropping pixels (though at least it was detected in the rescan). Ahh, the mysteries of all this!

Maybe WNDY can serve as a decent backup to a weak reception of WISH, but time will tell if that's a dependable signal.

P.S. added thanks to whomever noticed and corrected the EPG's wrong day setting!

T Heller

11-04-06, 10:20 AM

I'd say the reason you noticed the big signal drop from WISH-DT and WTTK-DT is because they are your "weakest link." WISH-DT is on ch. 9, a VHF frequency and you are using a UHF only antenna. The 4228 is okay at picking up the channel 9 frequency but not great, so any loss in signal strength will definitely be noticed.

Steve:

I'm very new to all this, so I hunted down additional information on just exactly where the Indy stations *really* are located on the spectrum. I found a listing of this info at HDTVmagazine.com.

One thing struck me: the transmit power for WISH-DT reported on that list is 19.5 kW, which is one-tenth the 200 kW reported for WFYI, the next lowest-transmit power of the stations I can receive. The transmit power for the digital signals being broadcast on the other national network-affiliated stations in Indy are much higher: 700 kW (FOX), 898 kW (ABC) and 1000 kW (NBC).

I'm confident the quite low power of WISH contributes mightily to WISH being, as you say, my "weakest link". I presume that my reception of WISH-DT in Columbus with the CM 4228 antenna and CM 7777 pre-amp would be fine if WISH's transmit power were more in line with that of the other stations. Indeed, might their lower-power be more complicit in my WISH-DT reception difficulty than the signal residing in the upper VHF range and my use of a UHF antenna -- or am I wrong?

Following from this, I wonder if you could enlighten me whether over-the-air digital signals in the post-2009 future are more likely to be lower-powered (ala WISH-DT's 19.5 kW) or more likely to be higher-powered (ala WFYI's 200 kW or the 800-1000 kW of FOX, RTV and WTHR)?

Thanks for your wisdom and contributions to this forum...

goldrich

11-04-06, 11:25 AM

Steve:

I'm very new to all this, so I hunted down additional information on just exactly where the Indy stations *really* are located on the spectrum. I found a listing of this info at HDTVmagazine.com.

One thing struck me: the transmit power for WISH-DT reported on that list is 19.5 kW, which is one-tenth the 200 kW reported for WFYI, the next lowest-transmit power of the stations I can receive. The transmit power for the digital signals being broadcast on the other national network-affiliated stations in Indy are much higher: 700 kW (FOX), 898 kW (ABC) and 1000 kW (NBC).

I'm confident the quite low power of WISH contributes mightily to WISH being, as you say, my "weakest link". I presume that my reception of WISH-DT in Columbus with the CM 4228 antenna and CM 7777 pre-amp would be fine if WISH's transmit power were more in line with that of the other stations. Indeed, might their lower-power be more complicit in my WISH-DT reception difficulty than the signal residing in the upper VHF range and my use of a UHF antenna -- or am I wrong?

Following from this, I wonder if you could enlighten me whether over-the-air digital signals in the post-2009 future are more likely to be lower-powered (ala WISH-DT's 19.5 kW) or more likely to be higher-powered (ala WFYI's 200 kW or the 800-1000 kW of FOX, RTV and WTHR)?

Thanks for your wisdom and contributions to this forum...

T Heller,

Sorry, but originally I was thinking you were located in Indy. Being in Columbus, I now believe I have a better sense of your issues.

First of all, the transmitter power from a VHF station cannot be directly compared to the power from a UHF station. This would not be an apples to apples comparison. VHF and UHF signals are very different. It takes a lot more power for a UHF station to cover the same area as does a VHF station, thus the reason why WISH-DT 9 (VHF) is only at 19.5 kW. After factoring the VHF/UHF differences, WISH-DT @ 19.5 kW has a coverage area virtually the same as that of a UHF station with 700 kW (WXIN-DT) to 1000 kW (WTHR-DT). This site does a good job of helping to explain the differences between UHF and VHF signals.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

Also, with some morning tropospheric enhancement, since you were receiving WLWT-DT, Cincinnati so well, no doubt you were receiving some other signals from Cincinnati. One of Cincinnati's analog stations, WCPO, is on ch. 9. I would tend to believe that the main reason WISH-DT was so weak this morning was because WCPO-9 was interfering with the WISH digital signal. The digital receiver has a very difficult time reading the data when an analog signal is mixing with the digital signal, or when two digital signals are fighting each other.

Another station in that area on ch. 54 might have been interfering with your signal from WTTK-DT 54. Until the analog stations are turned off in 2009, interference issues like this are common in many outlying areas, such as Columbus. This is where a very directional antenna is important, where the intended signal is received by the antenna while the various weaker signals from other directions on the same channel are mostly rejected by the antenna.

At your location, you might need to add a separate VHF antenna for receiving WISH-DT. WTHR-DT will be switching to ch. 13 in 2009 when WTHR analog is turned off. Then there will be two VHF DTVs from Indy.

Steve

T Heller

11-04-06, 02:33 PM

goldrich

11-05-06, 12:19 AM

Thanks again, Steve -- especially for correcting my implied assumption re: the respective transmit power required in UHF and VHF.

It will take some time, while I adjust to DT reception down here, to fully absorb what you say about interference, directional antennas and the return of WTHR in 2009 to the upper VHF range. (My pre-amped CM 4228 pulled in a good OTA analog signal for 13 before I added the digital tuner, so I'm not too worried about WTHR after the 2009 turn-off date; my concern will remain with WISH, however, since 8 analog was marginally viewable. Its audio was fine, though.

Nonetheless, am I wrong in assuming that WISH has some latitude in selecting the transmit power? Much like there's a significant difference between WXIN's 700 kW and WTHR's 1000 kW (at adjacent channels 45 and 46, respectively), might WISH have the opportunity to boost their VHF DT signal after 2009? (This might obviate any need for me to mount a big, hulky boom antenna to pull in WISH.)

May I also ask why, as I've read elsewhere in this forum, that WRTV may choose *not* to return to the VHF band? Are there some broadcast technology (i.e. physics) considerations behind this possibility?

The DTV transmit power is primarily determined by FCC formulas relating to the replication of the analog coverage area and co-channel interference factors. Here's a recent update from the FCC indicating, among other information, 2009 DTV channel assignments, along with the effective radiated power (ERP) and antenna height above average terrain (HAAT) for each DTV.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-150A1.pdf

According to this report, it doesn't appear that WISH-DT will be able to increase its power after 2009. According to FCC coverage maps, their current DTV power replicates its coverage area of WISH-8 analog which transmits @ 316 kW. (Digital stations don't require as much power as analog stations) WISH-DT will be required to protect the designated coverage areas of other regional DTV stations on ch. 9, including one in Evansville and one in Urbana, IL.

WRTV-DT decided early that it would not return to its low-VHF analog channel (6), along with most other stations on low-VHF channels (WTTV-4; WTWO-2, Terre Haute; etc). The main reason for this decision is related to the impulse noise interference factor. These channels, due to their low frequencies, are very prone to interference from electric motors, car engines, fluorescent lights, lightning, etc. These factors that have interfered with these analog channels for years are now interfering with DTV stations on these channels causing dropouts and macro-blocking. Also, the FCC has not favored the use of ch. 6 due to possible interference with nearby FM stations.

Steve

T Heller

11-05-06, 08:16 AM

Once again, I thank you Steve.

I suppose the only way WISH could 'strengthen' its signal (i.e. ensure good reception in finge areas of central Indiana) would be to find a DTV channel in the UHF range where its signal wouldn't interfere with stations in other adjoining markets. Would that impose an unbearable cost burden, either in power consumption or changeout of equipment/links in the transmission chain?

As regards WRTV's leaving the VHF band, I took a look at the FCC's DTV allotment table for stations in Seattle where I formerly lived. All their network affiliates (ABC, NBC, and CBS currently 4, 5 and 7) will be moving into UHF and will be transmitting at 1,000 kW.

In further perusing the DTV table, I was amazed at the exceedingly small power levels (3.2 kW and 1.18 kW respectively) Chicago's ABC and CBS outlets will be using. That's mind-boggling!

T Heller

11-05-06, 01:09 PM

OK, OK, I'm coming around to being resigned to adding a VHF antenna, to enable reception of WISH-DT.

Looking through http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html, it seems that Wineguard's YA-1713 would do the trick by pulling in Indy's upper VHF channels (and possibly Louisville on race day).

Any advice pro or con? Or would another antenna be better? (Wineguard's website says the YA-1713 is a blue-zone antenna. AntennaWeb reports I'm 50 miles from WISH's tower, and marks WISH as blue-VHF.)

It would be easy to install above the CM 4228 and I can run its lead into the CM 7777 pre-amp I've already installed.

goldrich

11-05-06, 01:49 PM

Yes, the Winegard YA-1713 would certainly compliment your antenna setup. I'm using the Antennacraft equivalent of that model, which I bought used from a friend. I'm just 5 miles from the WISH tower, but I'm able to receive WISH-TV's sister station in Lafayette, WLFI-DT 11, @ 40 miles.

It would allow you to receive a very good signal from WISH-DT and probably, at least from time to time, other high-VHF DTVs in the area. Louisville's WHAS-DT 55 (ABC) will be reverting to its analog ch. 11 in 2009. Also, you might be able to receive another WISH sister station in the future, WTHI-DT, Terre Haute. This station's DTV is currently on ch. 24 but in 2009 it will revert to its analog channel (10).

T Heller

11-05-06, 03:24 PM

Good to hear that the YA-1713 will 'fill the bill'. (Wish I had it up today to watch the Bears game.)

What's gonna happen to the lower VHF channels if stations won't be returning to them after the cut-off date?

T Heller

11-06-06, 01:55 PM

I see that there's no answer to my last question as yet. The FCC on October 18 approved an order re: the future use of abandoned and/or vacant TV channels ('whitespace', they're calling it). See "FCC Takes Steps to Allow New Low Power Devices on Vacant TV Channels" (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-150A1.pdf)

I'm having difficulties retrieving .pdf files from that hraunfoss.fcc.gov site. And now that link is missing from the FCC Media Bureau headlines page, http://www.fcc.gov/mb/. What gives?!

T Heller

11-06-06, 02:15 PM

coolray

11-06-06, 03:24 PM

T Heller

11-06-06, 05:24 PM

Sorry, I had a "bit-error" in the URL I posted for that ""FCC Takes Steps to Allow New Low Power Devices on Vacant TV Channels" (And it's a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking not an order as I had previously called it.)

The correct link is http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-156A1.pdf

goldrich

11-06-06, 06:10 PM

What's gonna happen to the lower VHF channels if stations won't be returning to them after the cut-off date?

As of now, there will be several DTV stations utilizing channels 2-6 after the cut-off date, just not LOTS of them. Some stations have opted to stay with their low-band VHF channel, but there has been a lot of speculation regarding the real future use of these frequencies. Please stay tuned!

goldrich

11-06-06, 06:24 PM

Back to my interest in the Winegard YA-1713 antenna.

If I add it to my CM 4228, should I have the coax from it to the pre-amp the same length as is the coax from the 4228 to the pre-amp? Is this equal-length rule based on superstition or what? (That's a serious question from a newbie.)

And I suppose I should use a dual ground-block, too, right?

Should I mount the 1713 a minimum distance from the 4228? If so, why and how much?

Thanks again...

When stacking two identical antennas together, the coax line from each antenna must be the same, including the exact same length into a combiner and/or preamp. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter what the length is, so just make the coax from the Winegard VHF antenna to the preamp whatever it needs to be. You could mount it on the mast above or below your 4228. Personally, I'd recommend mounting the two antennas approximately 3 - 4 feet apart on the mast. This will keep the two antennas from interfering with each other, especially reflected signals from one antenna into the other.

Yes, a dual ground-block would be a great idea. That's what I'm using from my two separate antennas.

Steve

goldrich

11-06-06, 06:43 PM

To Goldrich or any other guru's

Hi Steve, coolray here in Selma. My brother-in-law and his dad both live in Pendleton very near the St Rd 38 exit on I-69. I think it is exit #14 or exit #19. The dad has D* and he has a new big screen HDTV, which I think should have a built-in tuner. Being that close to all of the various towers, what would you recommend he get to try out to see what he can get without putting up an outside antenna. Would the Silver Sensor do it for him or something else. I have no practical experience with those since I am so far out from the tower farms.

The brother-in-law tells me his dad has a real crappy picture on his set and that the dad is NOT subscribed to any High Def Programming from D*. I told him that from reading several of your[Goldrich's] posts that he should try something simple first, but I did not know what that would be, so I would post to this excellent forum and get him some answers.

Thanks guys and let er rip.

Tom "coolray" Smalley in Selma Indiana

Hey Tom,

About a year ago I experimented with a Silver Sensor on the south side of Kokomo, right at 38 miles from the Indy antenna farm. I used a very short piece of coax cable from the antenna to the STB (approx. 4 ft.) and I found the reception of WXIN-DT, WTHR-DT and WRTV-DT to be quite good plus WNDY-DT was very easy to receive when the antenna was aimed near Noblesville. I was not able to receive WFYI-DT nor was I able to receive WISH-DT 9 with this UHF only antenna. One of the UHF/VHF combo indoor antennas, which are available at lots of locations (HH Gregg, Lowes, Home Depot, Radio Shack, etc.) most likely would work okay in the Pendleton area, which is closer to the Indy towers than Kokomo.

Also from Pendleton, WIPB-DT, Muncie, should be quite easy to receive, or at least easier than WFYI-DT.

As we've said many times before, YMMV (your mileage may vary). It usually comes down to trial and error. Make sure you keep the receipt from any antenna you purchase so hopefully it can be returned if it doesn't work. Good luck.

Steve

IndyJeff

11-06-06, 10:00 PM

I just watched last night's Desperate Housewives, and it seems that the green lines are back on WRTV-6 (TiVO Series 3 via OTA antenna).

Anyone else noticed?

It's not quite as bad as before, but they are there...

Tersanyus

11-07-06, 08:24 PM

Quite a bit disappointed that NCIS on WISH-DT isn't in HD tonight. If I wanted to see election results I'd wait till they are published in the paper tomorrow or see the news tonight. Just saw "You're watching NCIS. Tommorow Jericho." Thanks a lot, I had no idea what program I was watching. It's also curious that WXIN and WRTV aren't interferring with their HD feeds to show Election results

One of the things I like most about HD programming is that there is very little what I call "fluff advertising" in the show it self. These are the "Catch a new episode of some crap program tomorrow on CBS." You see this a lot on non HD programs. The Amazing Race has it since it isn't HD. WXIN used to do this a lot during credits. The Simpsons would sometimes have something that happens during the credits and WXIN would talk over the credits, shrink them to small size, and advertise programs. I complained about this. I bet a lot of others did too as WXIN no longer advertises over credits.

Soon enough there will be advertising over the HD programming we love. As HDTV becomes more common the networks will catch on.

Tom Weber

11-07-06, 11:31 PM

kierandill

11-08-06, 11:47 AM

I should have mentioned this before, but I did get the piece of equipment installed for WISH at least a week ago (maybe it's two?) that allows for the proper decoding of audio metadata, and thus control of stereo/5.1 surround encoding.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / LWS / WIIH / WNDY

Did anyone complain about audio levels? Because I noted Sunday that the NFL on WISH was easily 50% louder than any other channel, including the same game on WLFI.

IndyJeff

11-08-06, 05:42 PM

Did anyone complain about audio levels? Because I noted Sunday that the NFL on WISH was easily 50% louder than any other channel, including the same game on WLFI.

WISH-DT is always super-loud compared to everything else.

It seems kind of 'tinny' the last week or so as well. I don't have 5.1 digital surround -- just stereo.

XavierMike

11-08-06, 10:07 PM

Anyone else using DirecTv loose the HD feed of WISH and WTHR during Lost tonight? They still aren't back yet. I never lost my other HD stations (espn, tnt, etc.)

pecasbo

11-09-06, 07:06 AM

I live in Kokomo, and my WISH-TV (HD) signal is gone or at an extremely low signal level... is there a weather explanation for this? Or is there a technical issue with WISH?

All other channels seemed fine.

wrwine3

11-09-06, 10:13 AM

Good to hear that the YA-1713 will 'fill the bill'. (Wish I had it up today to watch the Bears game.)

Early last week WISH-TV had the Bengals game listed and I was disappointed. Late last week it changed to the Bears game and I was very happy.

What is that old adage? Be careful what you wish for?

Count your blessings you didn't get to see the game.

T Heller

11-09-06, 02:55 PM

Tom Weber:

I'm down in Columbus, struggling to get WISH-DT over-the-air. I was able to pull it in the first couple of days after hooking up a Samsung T451 to my CM 4228 (w/ CM 7777 pre-amp) antenna. But after re-routing the cable through the basement, WISH dropped from view. ("No Signal" reports the T451.)

Today, I took delivery of a Winegard YA-1713 and mounted it four feet above the CM 4228. I switched the pre-amp to its "separate (UHF and VHF)" setting and am now receiving a picture, but it's very, very marginal. No picture freezes but plenty of pixelization and momentary audio drops.

I called Winegard and they suggested, among other things, that I should call WISH to learn whether they're broadcasting their signal at full power. So, that's my first question, were you broadcasting WISH-DT at full power this Thursday afternoon (~2:30 PM)?

The Winegard fellow also suggested the possibility of an interfering FM signal on its second harmonic and advised I should set the pre-amp's switch to "trap in". Turns out, that's where it was set at the factory and still remains. So no picture improvement there.

I also took the precaution of making and installing an equal length lead from each antenna (UHF and VHF) into the pre-amp. No noticeable improvement.

The last suggestion from the Winegard fellow was that I might be getting *too much* signal (I suppose that's possible, but I'm 50 miles from the WISH tower) and to try adding some in-line attenuators from Radio Shack to the coax as it enters the STB. I'll try that, but I'm not putting much faith in that diagnosis or approach.

Any other ideas? Or am I for all intents and purposes beyond WISH's DT range? The fellow at Winegard says the YA-1713 should be good enough to pull in a signal from 40 to 50 miles.

P.S. I'm expecting to take delivery of the new Samsung STB, DTB H260-F, in the next week (thru Amazon.com). Maybe it will have better luck decoding the signal I'm getting. One can always hope.

-------
wrwine3: yep, I'm glad I missed that game.

George Molnar

11-09-06, 03:14 PM

T Heller - Can you hook up an old-fashioned t.v. set to your downlead and tune to analog channel 8? If your antenna system is working properly, you should see perfect ch. 8 reception. But if snowy or ghosty or otherwise impaired you'd have trouble decoding WISH's digital signal which is transmitted on channel 9 spectrum. You can use the analog receiver to troubleshoot whatever is ailing your antenna system.

T Heller

11-09-06, 03:43 PM

George - you beat me to it. That's what I was going to report on. Thanks.

I get a *fair* analog picture for WISH (on the same HD-ready LCD set, not an older one as you suggested). It's snowy but no ghosts. There's a clear pattern to the snow -- it runs across the screen in narrow bands (about 25-30 of them) with a bias downward from left to right.

It's an 'acceptable' picture, if that's what I have to settle for. It's better than the heavily snowed-out picture I received before mounting the antenna.

With my current setup, I get the same snowy patterned 'acceptable' picture (as I now do on WISH) on analog Ch. 4 (CW) whose tower is only 18 miles away. (Does the evident pattern suggest something? Could it be I'm getting too strong a signal now?) Before the Winegard antenna, the analog picture from Ch. 6 (WRTV) was *nothing* but snow. With the Winegard, it's still snowy, but now you can at least tell what the image is (and the audio is fine.) Even still, WRTV's analog picture is *worse* than WISH's analog picture.

If there's a tweak I can try, I'm game, but I'm still mystified why the CM 4228/7777 with the Samsung T451 initially brought in a crisp picture for a couple of days. I know that the 4228 is a UHF antenna and Ch 8 is on VHF Channel 9, but still -- how was I getting a clean digital picture?

T Heller

11-09-06, 04:19 PM

bdmh

11-09-06, 06:14 PM

I live in Lafayette, and I'm thinking about adding a TV Tuner Card to my personal video recorder setup, and I'm considering getting one that is HD capable for HD OTA. I've got Insight cable (analog), but I'd like to know whether it would be worth spending the money to get an antenna and buy the more expensive tuner card (for the HD card). If I can only get WLFI, I don't think it would be worth spending the extra money, but if I can get all (or most) of the networks I'd be willing to go for it.

I'd like to know what channels (either HD and regular OTA) you can see in Lafayette, and what kind of antenna set up most people use. When I used to try using rabbit ears, I could only get WLFI.

I'm about 50 miles away from the Indy broadcast towers according to antennaweb. I live in an apartment so I can't use an outdoor antenna (away from the river, though). I'm thinking of getting the zenith silver sensor indoor antenna to try to get reception. I know the best solution would be a big outdoor antenna, but it is not an option. I also do not have any attic access, so the antenna must work ok from within the apartment.

So, what can you tell me? Any advice? I'm very new to this PVR thing and also new to HD, and I'd appreciate any advice you can give.

Thanks in advance for your input! :D

MAX HD

11-09-06, 09:07 PM

I'm looking into the FM interference subject re: WISH-DT reception down here in Columbus. Best as I can tell, there are three FM stations with strong signals here (92.3 out of Bloomington, 93.1 out of Indianapolis and 93.7 out of Seymour). All would seem to be close to or in the range of a second harmonic for Ch. 9, which he said occupies 186-192 MHz.

So, it's off to Radio Shack to find a 75-ohm in-line FM trap to position between the Winegard VHF antenna and the CM preamp. I'll report back my experience.

I put up an antenna install in Elizabethtown(south of Columbus-60mi out) two weeks ago,using an Antennacraft 1013 highband and a CM 4-bay with a CM7777 and no problems yet with Indy reception.Maybe you're in a somewhat challenged location.

I will be coming to Columbus Sunday to return an antenna to Menards.If you like,I could stop by and let you try one of my Funke 1922 highbanders to see if a larger antenna would help,and help you troubleshoot.If it works I'd trade you out of the Winegard-can't have enough highbanders around here for WISH and WCPO.

http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/NewTowerAntennas/

T Heller

11-09-06, 10:00 PM

MaxHD (Greg, I presume):

Wow! You're way out of my league! Not even sure what DXing means...

I can report that my trip to Radio Shack was only able to turn up some ferrite (?) snap-on "RF Chokes". They didn't have an FM Trap. (I see Winegard has one and another one showed up on a Google search.)

So I tried four RF chokes on the coax as it enters the pre-amp from the VHF Winegard YA-1713. It seemed to reduce the patterned snow on WISH's analog picture, but that may have been hopeful thinking more than anything. I was unimpressed, so I removed them about an hour later.

Later in the evening, when prime time shows came on, WISH's digital picture improved greatly. Some visual artifacts surfaced from time to time, but nowhere near what I was witnessing in the afternoon when I wrote the above notes. WISH's digital picture then was not acceptable; it's analog was only OK.

Now, with CSI and all that stuff, it's a fine picture. Maybe what I was experiencing was solely due to transmit power. The signal strength indicator for WISH-DT displays a solid six bars, sharing with a seventh bar most of the time. (Darn...as I write this --about 9:50 pm-- the picture's having difficulties like those encountered earlier today.)

I'm going to keep an eye on WISH's day/night performance before throwing anything more at my antenna system. Plus, the Samsung DTR H260 I ordered should be en route soon. It may be able to do more with the WISH-DT signal I'm receiving.

Nonetheless, I'm open to having your trained eye stop by Sunday. I'm in downtown Columbus on the second floor of an 1890's building in process of being converted to modern residential condos. If you've got the time, feel free to call and I'll give you more precise directions. My number is 378-2032. First name is Tom.

kierandill

11-10-06, 11:36 PM

bdmh

11-11-06, 04:19 PM

Hi Kierandill,

Thanks for the advice. That was kind of what I expected.

Maybe I'll get a regular tuner card until I live somewhere closer to HD antennas.

Thanks again.

bdmh

goldrich

11-11-06, 04:53 PM

Sunday night after the NFL game, WTHR-DT will present a 'soft' launch of Eyewitness News in HD. This will be mostly studio cameras and graphics. Apparently they also have an HD cam for skyline shots ready to go. Initially all field reports, traffic cameras and helicopter shots will be upconverted SD until HD cameras are installed within the next six months or so.

Congrats to WTHR-DT for this big step forward in HDTV. This is a VERY expensive project.

BTW, the official launch of Eyewitness News in HD will be Wed., Nov. 15.

Steve

kierandill

11-11-06, 05:19 PM

chibul

11-11-06, 08:55 PM

oryan_dunn

11-11-06, 09:33 PM

Its most likely blacked out for you. I had that problem up here in Auburn when I wanted to watch the Tigers games on INHD, the channel would be black.

chibul

11-11-06, 11:46 PM

Its most likely blacked out for you. I had that problem up here in Auburn when I wanted to watch the Tigers games on INHD, the channel would be black.

Yeah, someone told me that since we had access to the Pacers local telecast, they blacked out the national HD feed. Makes no sense to me.

I hate the Pacers. Glad my Bulls took them out tonight.

goldrich

11-12-06, 07:57 AM

Is anyone having issues with INHD on Comcast right now? It's showing the Pacers/Bulls game...at least, it's supposed to be. Whenever I change the channel there, my cable box freezes until I switch it to another channel.

I noticed the same thing via Bright House. The game was carried by Fox Sports Indiana so it was blacked out on INHD.

Steve

goldrich

11-12-06, 08:03 AM

I've seen the ads - any idea if it is the weekday evening broadcasts only, or all (weekends and "Sunrise")?

Just an assumption, but as far as I know this will include all local newscasts on WTHR-DT.

rustysedam

11-12-06, 01:29 PM

Well, once again WTHI in Terre Haute is only showing the Colts game in SD despite being advertised by CBS and TitanTV online as being an HD game. Not that I'm a Colts fan, but it's very disappointing not being able to catch a game in HD when it's supposed to be in HD. Kinda makes me feel like I wasted my money on my OTA antenna when this happens.

UPDATE - about 15 minutes after I wrote the above: With about 11 minutes left in the 2nd quarter, WTHI switched to HD. Someone was asleep at the "HD Wheel"!!

IndyJeff

11-12-06, 01:30 PM

T Heller

11-12-06, 10:49 PM

If anyone's interested in my pursuit of digital OTA reception down here in Columbus, I've got a brief report to offer.

Greg Barker of Greensburg kindly stopped by Sunday afternoon to assess my situation (principally the difficulty I've had pulling in WISH-DT with my CM-4228/7777 antenna/preamp). The addition of a VHF antenna (Winegard 1713) earlier in the week did not produce any improvement (except I get less-snowy analog reception for WRTV, WISH and WHTR).

Greg raised the 4228 about three feet higher on the mast and that worked wonders in restoring digital channels I had lost and in regaining acceptable UHF analog reception. But WISH's digital signal was still very iffy. He suggested I could try to find a better, 'sweeter', spot for the VHF antenna. I'll pursue that later this week.

But in the meantime, I've discovered an indication that Cincinnati's WHCO may be the culprit behind my difficulty receiving WISH-DT. Both are on Ch. 9 tho' WCPO has some 'Z' frequency offset (whatever that means.) I'm 50 miles from the source of WISH's digital signal and 77 miles from WCPO's analog signal, so I'm guessing there's quite a battle going on in that frequency around here. WISH is almost due north and WCPO is almost due east from me. (The "indication" I mention was my Samsung T451 STB displaying 8-1 and -wierdly- momentarily displaying 9-1 once when I tuned to WISH one time this evening. Indeed, I think it happened twice.)

Given this circumstantial 'evidence', I'm going to try to eliminate or reduce my system's sensitivity to WCPO *before* I attempt to find a sweeter spot for the VHF antenna. I'm going to unhook the VHF antenna completely and see whether the new height on my UHF CM 4228/7777 system will pull in WISH-DT unimpeded by WCPO's analog signal. (I got a clean WISH-DT signal the first couple of days I had the 4228/7777 up, before I mounted a VHF antenna. So maybe it'll happen again, despite the 4228 being a UHF antenna.)

I'll report back the results of this test.

I

Jim_Hunt

11-12-06, 11:44 PM

Just an assumption, but as far as I know this will include all local newscasts on WTHR-DT.

It wouldn't make sense to switch gear back and forth. Julia will look very good in the mornings in HD. :)

I am waiting for the soft test....

Jim_Hunt

11-13-06, 12:13 AM

They need to get the audio & video in sync. Very noticable.

kierandill

11-13-06, 08:17 AM

I would not think there would be any "switching back and forth" involved. After all, they must continue to broadcast SD over both analog and digital, regardless of whether the HD equipment is "on" or not.
This AM may have answered my question - Julia looked HD great as always this AM, but Bruce Kopp needs to get a lint brush if he is going to wear dark suits on HD.

Tom Weber

11-13-06, 10:48 AM

If it's any help, WISH broadcasts its digital signal at a constant power level, it does not vary with time of day or anything like that. However, atmospheric conditions can affect reception according to time of day, sun/cloudy, sunspots, things like that. It's generally -less- of an effect for television and FM than it is for AM radio, but there can still be reception variabilities because of it. These variations will be more noticable at greater distances from the transmitting antenna, simply because the desired signal is weaker with distance.

WISH-DT has happy viewers basically at the same distances as WISH analog viewers; we have viewers north of Muncie, and in Bloomington, for instance. The transmitting plant and power level for WISH-DT was designed to achieve that.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISDH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

George Molnar

11-13-06, 11:56 AM

I have observed over the past few days that atmospheric conditions are allowing distant VHF stations to "skip." (For example, was receiving WQAD channel 8 from Moline, Illinois in South Bend, Indiana all weekend.) Also noticed that Chicago high-VHF chs. 7, 9 & 11 were suffering "venitian blind" interference effect from distant co-channel stations. Perhaps these same atmospheric conditions are allowing some distant ch. 9 to skip in and adversely affecting reception of WISH digital.

Jim_Hunt

11-13-06, 12:16 PM

It looks like WTHR got the audio/video very, very close on the noon boradcast. I still think it is a few milliseconds off. The PQ seems very, very good and the transitions between HD and upconverted SD is seemlesss.

T Heller

11-13-06, 01:39 PM

Tom, George:

Thanks for the replies/information. It is of great help in narrowing down what's effecting my situation. Since I get good strong signals from the WRTV, WTHR and WFYI towers, I'm stuck with the hypothesis that my DT signal for WISH is meeting some interference from Cincinnati Ch. 9 WCPO 77 miles away. (I also see there's a digital ch. 9 signal 81 miles away in Louisville, too.)

My experiment to unhook the new VHF antenna was unsuccessful. No digital picture for WISH (and a substantial worsening of its analog picture, too.) No surprise, I suppose.

About the only option I have left is to seek a sweet spot for the VHF antenna. But if my suspicions about Cincinnati Ch. 9 are right, I likely won't be able to find a sweet spot at my location to bring in WISH-DT. So I guess I may have to wait a couple years for WISH to return their digital signal to Ch. 8, which I expect won't be subject to co-channel interference. That's a long time to wait, though.

david12781

11-13-06, 03:30 PM

Dear Fellow Insight-ers:

I recently moved to Lafayette and signed up with Insight for basic cable and internet. My last apartment had Comcast and even though I was only paying for basic cable, I could pull in the local digital/HD channels because of the QAM tuner in my TV.

Have any Insight customers out there tried something like this? Is it possible to get any digital/HD channels through the QAM tuner instead of upgrading to classic and renting a set-top box? I know I live too far to pick anything up with an antenna, but I really don't want to pay any more than I already am for programming, so if anyone has tried this, please let me know!

Thanks a million.

-Dave

T Heller

11-13-06, 07:11 PM

UPDATE: the difficulties I've been reporting re: receiving WISH-DT over-the-air seem to now trace to a failing/failed pre-amp (China Master model 7777).

A synopsis: On day one, I received WISH-DT on the CM 4228 UHF antenna with CM 7777 pre-amp. A couple days later, WISH-DT disappeared. I subsequently bought and installed a Winegard VHF tuner and ran it into the CM 7777 pre-amp, too. Didn't really help pull in WISH's digital signal, but it did improve reception on WISH analog (and for WRTV and WTHR's analog signal, too).

Over the next week or so, my digital reception became less acceptable until this weekend when *all* the digital channels in UHF were AWOL. Reception of my analog UHF channels had gotten much, much worse, too. And, as before, WISH-DT on VHF was still very, very sketchy.

Sunday afternoon, Greg Barker helped me raise up the 4228's height and checked the quality of my connections. My analog UHF returned, as did all the digital channels I'd lost the past week or so. But WISH-DT was still not quite there.

My happiness was short-lived, however. This morning, I did some minor futzing around and managed to lose *all* my UHF digital channels. And my analog UHF reception was virtually non-existent. I was ready to commit hari-kari.

I started to suspect the China Master 7777 pre-amp, so I called Warren Electronics from whom I purchased it and the 4228 antenna. Kevin had me do some basic diagnostics and, after replacing the 4228's balun and replacing the coax lead from the 4228 to the pre-amp, I began pulling in a great digital signal for WISH-DT. (But I hadn't changed out anything in the VHF chain!) ALL of my UHF-band reception -both analog and digital- was terrible. ('No Signal' for digital; lousy picture for analog).

When I bypassed the pre-amp as requested by Kevin in his diagnostics, my UHF analog reception actually IMPROVED!! (Without any amplification, of course, the digital signals were nowhere.) The improvement of UHF analog signals by bypassing the pre-amp cinched the diagnosis: a flakey China Master pre-amp. So, it's been boxed up and sent back for replacement. (If I could only be compensated for the pain and suffering the damn thing has caused me!)

So, keeping my fingers crossed that I won't get another defective China Master 7777 pre-amp, I may be capable of receiving ALL Indy's digital broadcasts, INCLUDING WISH-DT! Hooray!

I hope this adventure may help others seeking distant digital OTA TV reception. At this point, I'd issue a warning on the CM 7777.

goldrich

11-14-06, 08:55 AM

Congratulations in finding your problem. Your entire scenario now makes perfect sense. And, yes, a properly working pre-amp at your location should allow you to receive good signals from Indy.

Sorry you were shipped a bad CM 7777 pre-amp, but overall, especially considering the thousands of units that have been shipped and installed, my own personal experiences along with what I've read over the years, would indicate it is (usually) a very reliable unit. Good luck with the replacement.

Steve

T Heller

11-14-06, 01:16 PM

I just hope Warren Electronic can get me the replacement in time to watch the Michigan-Ohio State game! Boy, what a frustrating and confusing situation this has been.

T Heller

11-14-06, 01:20 PM

(To say nothing re: time-consuming.)

Tom Weber

11-14-06, 01:42 PM

Actually, WISH-DT will remain on channel 9 for its digital life. However, the analog channel 9 in Cincy will go away (they're staying on 10 for digital), so that's a good thing for co-channel problems. Also, WTHR is going to go back to 13 for its digital broadcasts, so there will be a 9 and a 13 to pick up. And, in the further reaches of Indiana, WLFI-DT in Lafayette will remain on 11, and WTHI in Terre Haute will return to channel 10 - so there's plenty of reasons to keep VHF reception capability after analog goes away.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

corrnd

11-14-06, 02:25 PM

Has anyone had experience with the local Brighthouse HD channels using an HDTV with the HD Tuner built-in?

We've been able to get the local HD channels religiously with basic cable on 704 WTTV, 706 ABC, 708 CBS, 710 PBS, 711 FOX, and 713 WTHR using our built-in HD Tuner. We came home to find a couple Brighthouse trucks in the neighborhood last night, and our cable was out. When it returned, I could no longer get the local HD channels. When I tune in any of those channels, they come on for a couple seconds and then go black with the dreaded 'No Signal' banner.

I switched over to our OTA HD antenna in the attic, but that has limitations. We're located in Downtown Indy, and we get massive reflection from all of the surrounding buildings. No single antenna location will allow me to pick-up all local available channels.

Given the option of having to rent-a-box from Brighthouse, I would rather put up a second antenna, merge the signals, and save myself some bucks.

Anyone else exeprience a similar problem? Thx!
I've read that certain areas have unencrypted QAM HD channels on basic analog cable. The post above from March '06 is the only post I've been able to find about the status of downtown Indy on Brighthouse. Anybody know the latest? Is HD fully disabled on basic cable in Indy at this point?

Les Auber

11-14-06, 05:23 PM

I've read that certain areas have unencrypted QAM HD channels on basic analog cable. The post above from March '06 is the only post I've been able to find about the status of downtown Indy on Brighthouse. Anybody know the latest? Is HD fully disabled on basic cable in Indy at this point?

Don't know about downtown but Brighthouse in Hendricks has the local INDY channels unencrypted. There's one or two others also but I can't recall off the top of my head. I would suspect that it would be similar downtown but have no way to know for sure.

jrcorwin

11-15-06, 11:01 AM

Well...now that WTHR has stepped up to the plate with the HD newscasts beginning tonight....I'm curious to see how long it will take for WISH and WRTV to catch up.

I myself will not be able to tune into the new broadcast until January! :( I'm in the middle of a move right now and without HD. I am very interested in seeing how my reception changes. I am moving from Greenfield to the Lawrence area. When I first got my HDTV I only had OTA via an indoor antenna. I was surprised that I was able to pick up ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX out in greenfield with the indoor antenna. Now, it was a weak signal and sometimes I got nothing at all from ABC and CBS...but it was honestly more than I had expected. Now...I can't wait to see what kind of reception I get OTA with the same antenna from the Lawrence area.

So you can get an idea of what I will be looking at....

I am going from this:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q124/jrcorwin31/Greenfield1.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q124/jrcorwin31/Greenfield2.jpg

To this:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q124/jrcorwin31/lawrence1.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q124/jrcorwin31/lawrence2.jpg

jrcorwin

11-15-06, 11:02 AM

Also, I was planning on using the Terk Indoor Amplified HDTV Antenna.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7322587&productCategoryId=cat08084&type=product&cmp=++&id=1118844608800

...but I noticed another option and I'm wondering if it is in fact any better. I can't find any details on it however...

Audiovox® HD-TVLP Amplified Low Profile Indoor HDTV Antenna

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=family&summary=summary&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=custRatings&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&accessories=accessories&productId=2473213&support=support&tab=summary

BRADH

11-15-06, 04:03 PM

Was last night the first night for 13.1 HD news and 11pm. I thought it looked good.

Brad

jrcorwin

11-15-06, 04:14 PM

Was last night the first night for 13.1 HD news and 11pm. I thought it looked good.

Brad
Hmm...I thought tonight at 5:00 was the premier...

BRADH

11-15-06, 04:25 PM

I saw it last night at 11pm. Everything on the set was HD only the weather map was 4/3. Looked really sharp as well.

Brad

goldrich

11-15-06, 04:26 PM

Was last night the first night for 13.1 HD news and 11pm. I thought it looked good.

Brad

The official HD kick off is scheduled for this evening, but every newscast (early morning, midday, evening) I've seen on WTHR-DT since the Sunday night 'soft' launch has been in HD. And, yes, I think it looks very good. The switching between HD and upconverted SD (until all the new HD cameras are installed in approximately 6 months) appears to be going very smoothly, too.

Steve

kierandill

11-15-06, 04:57 PM

The official HD kick off is scheduled for this evening, but every newscast (early morning, midday, evening) I've seen on WTHR-DT since the Sunday night 'soft' launch has been in HD. And, yes, I think it looks very good. The switching between HD and upconverted SD (until all the new HD cameras are installed in approximately 6 months) appears to be going very smoothly, too.

Steve

I have a general question for those of you more experienced with all this - I've been thinking about all the fiddling and adjusting and such that I keep reading about the broadcasters doing on their end. Then I visualize early 2009, when several such stations have to leap overnite from broadcasting in UHF to doing so in VHF (WTHR, for example). Or vice versa, in some cases, I suppose.
Isn't that a recipe for weeks of painful transition?

Hef

11-15-06, 05:14 PM

Funny thing is I thought about a year ago that I read that one of the GMs at our local station said it would be several years before they would get HD due to the expensive of the equipment.

I do hope it speeds things up cause I like Grace Tranhan for news (ABC) and Angela Buckman (CBS) for weather. I want to see Angie in HD!

BRADH

11-15-06, 05:53 PM

I thought WISH would have been first with HD News. They have been (Tom Weber) on top of the HD game for years.

Brad

Tersanyus

11-16-06, 12:17 AM

Sometimes seeing these newscasters in HD may not be a good thing! I don't remember who said it but on the 5pm news one of the newscasters make a remark about having to wear more makeup now that they broadcast in HD.

You can definately see the lint on their suits.

Oh and WTHR has been doing HD news since Sunday night. The Sportslockers show I think it was. I thought it funny they kept saying they will start HD for the new on Wednesday when they already were in HD.

renbutler

11-16-06, 10:06 AM

I myself will not be able to tune into the new broadcast until January! :( I'm in the middle of a move right now and without HD. I am very interested in seeing how my reception changes. I am moving from Greenfield to the Lawrence area. When I first got my HDTV I only had OTA via an indoor antenna. I was surprised that I was able to pick up ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX out in greenfield with the indoor antenna. Now, it was a weak signal and sometimes I got nothing at all from ABC and CBS...but it was honestly more than I had expected. Now...I can't wait to see what kind of reception I get OTA with the same antenna from the Lawrence area.

I'm in Lawrence (79th/Oaklandon area), and I almost never have a problem getting ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX via a cheap ($50) RCA indoor HD antenna.

I can also get channel 29 (WTTV/WTTK) HD if I move the antenna from the floor to a table about three feet off the ground!

jrcorwin

11-16-06, 11:10 AM

I'm in Lawrence (79th/Oaklandon area), and I almost never have a problem getting ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX via a cheap ($50) RCA indoor HD antenna.

I can also get channel 29 (WTTV/WTTK) HD if I move the antenna from the floor to a table about three feet off the ground!
Great! I'm glad to hear it...thanks.

I just which I could find the specs on that other antenna I mentioned....

jrcorwin

11-16-06, 11:43 AM

bigdep

11-16-06, 01:44 PM

Ok, I have a question for all of you experts out there! :)

I'm trying to decide between two different indoor OTA antennas. Now...please ignore the price...I want the best performance. Which of these appears to be stonger?

Terk HD-TVA Indoor HDTV Amplified UHF/VHF Antenna
http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD-TVA

Winegard SS-3000 Sharp Shooter 3000 Indoor UHF/VHF Antenna
http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=SS3000

Thank you much! I appreciate the help....:)

Well i can tell you from experince the Terk HD-TVA is the way to go if your less that 20 miles away from the antennas. Keep in mind that both of these antennas are highly directional so when you finally choose one be aware you gotta have it pointing directly at the signal.

Where are the local antennas compared to where your at? Well thats what this site is for.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

This shows you where all the local signals are coming from and what type of antenna your going to need to tap into it.

I'm about 18 miles away from most of the DT stations and I get all of them perfectly, except if the microwave is on and then its hit or miss. :D

One last thing be aware that the Terk is very large (With the dipoles extended) and you may consider a good hiding spot for it. Mine is tucked away in a closet and still works perfect!

jrcorwin

11-16-06, 01:58 PM

Well i can tell you from experince the Terk HD-TVA is the way to go if your less that 20 miles away from the antennas. Keep in mind that both of these antennas are highly directional so when you finally choose one be aware you gotta have it pointing directly at the signal.

Where are the local antennas compared to where your at? Well thats what this site is for.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

This shows you where all the local signals are coming from and what type of antenna your going to need to tap into it.

I'm about 18 miles away from most of the DT stations and I get all of them perfectly, except if the microwave is on and then its hit or miss. :D

One last thing be aware that the Terk is very large (With the dipoles extended) and you may consider a good hiding spot for it. Mine is tucked away in a closet and still works perfect!

Well, as far as where I am located in relation to the antennas...

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q124/jrcorwin31/lawrence1.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q124/jrcorwin31/lawrence2.jpg

The only channels I really care about are at points H, G, & F.

I had the Terk once before (almost a year ago...before I decided to get HD cable) and my only complaint was the size with the dipoles extended. That is why the winegard caught my eye. I just don't know if it would be any more powerful. I don't know enough to understand all the specs on each...I'm not sure if one is more powerful than the other...so maybe I will have to buy both and try them out.

The antenna will be indoors and I will not have access to an attic...so as much as I would love an outdoor multi-directional antenna, that just isn't a possibility.

Thank you for the reply! :)

bigdep

11-16-06, 04:16 PM

Hef

11-16-06, 06:42 PM

My brother has a new Panny 60u with a qam tuner buiklt in . he gets all the majors in free on Insight Kokomo, but FOX. Anyone have any ideas for a fix?

jrcorwin

11-17-06, 08:39 AM

The terk is going to be fine since your so close to the signals. As far as the "power" of the two antenna's the only number your going to be intrested in is the DB that the amp is going to add. However in your circumstance being as close to the source as you are you dont even need an amplified antenna. You could get a non-amplifed antenna such as Terk HDTVI which is the same model just not amplified.

However IMO I would still get the amplified Terk just for the sake of having a stronger signal to your TV or sat box.
Hmmm...ok, thank you again. I think that is what I am going to do. I get that one and I shouldn't have any problems. If I do...I'll just try a different one.

I have another question though. If I have basic cable (no box) and an HD antenna....if I use a splitter backwards as a "combiner"....can I avoid having to physically change which source is attached to the TV?

nathill

11-17-06, 05:45 PM

I have another question though. If I have basic cable (no box) and an HD antenna....if I use a splitter backwards as a "combiner"....can I avoid having to physically change which source is attached to the TV?

That likely won't work, as there will probably be signals coming in on top of each other on the same channel number. It would be a mess.
You can get a A-B antenna switch cheap enough, and Radio Shack makes one with an IR remote control, which I find works just fine.

jrcorwin

11-20-06, 08:49 AM

You can get a A-B antenna switch cheap enough, and Radio Shack makes one with an IR remote control, which I find works just fine.
That is exactly what I was thinking...and looking for...hadn't found one yet. I have a switcher....I just don't want to get up each time I want to switch. I happen to be a channel flipper you see. I'll try to find one there with a remote. Thank you!

nathill

11-20-06, 09:00 AM

That is exactly what I was thinking...and looking for...hadn't found one yet. I have a switcher....I just don't want to get up each time I want to switch. I happen to be a channel flipper you see. I'll try to find one there with a remote. Thank you!

Here's the one I purchased. It works fine.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049643&cp=&origkw=a%2Fb+switch&kw=a%2Fb+switch&parentPage=search

jlwine

11-20-06, 03:55 PM

I saw this over at the TivoCommunity Forum:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=326444

This is from an e-mail that CBS sent to Affiliates:

---
Broadcast Flag

In an effort to avoid the problems the music industry has had with proliferation of illegal copies of their content on the Internet, we have been taking a proactive role to mark our High Definition content with a Flag. The purpose of the “Broadcast Flag” is to send a signal to the consumer’s equipment that indicates “this content shall not be redistributed on the Internet”. The appearance of the Viidoo web site that allows anyone with a video capture / tuner card in their PC to post a TV program on the internet, underscores the importance of Broadcast Flag. Many of our content partners and providers are requiring that we agree in our program contracts to encode the Broadcast Flag on the studio master tape and pass the signal all the way through the broadcast chain ( i.e., network Broadcast Center, satellite, affiliate and to the home).

My question is, will the use of this flag force 1080i signal via componet cable to downconvert to 480p? I certainly hope not.

nathill

11-20-06, 04:57 PM

My question is, will the use of this flag force 1080i signal via componet cable to downconvert to 480p? I certainly hope not.

I second that question. I, for one, would feel cheated. I have done nothing wrong, and have four HDTVs hooked up with component cables. My primary source of television viewing is now OTA HDTV.
To punish all of us now would be a real mistake and would result in far fewer folks (like me) watching OTA HDTV. Most of my current tuners/HDTVs are not capable of HDMI transmission.

MassNerder

11-21-06, 01:42 PM

I think it does down-convert. However, if one were to get an ATSC tuner card for their computer and make a HTPC, you could probably just buy an ATSC card that doesn't support it.

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Broadcast_Flag

The notion that the broadcast flag will solve the piracy issue is laughable. I'm sure there will be some 'illegal but maybe not immoral' solutions to the problem.

Buy your non-broadcast flag enabled ATSC cards now...

MassNerder

11-21-06, 01:48 PM

I'm pretty sure the answer to this will be: we have no answer. But I'm just wondering if anyone has heard anything about WISH-TV(Lin) and WXIN(Tribune) getting any sort of agreement with DirecTV?

I'd really like to be able to watch 24 in HD when it starts....

Les Auber

11-21-06, 10:50 PM

Another ATSC tuner card option without broadcast flag is MyHD. The current card also has an unencryptyed QAM tuner. This card is hardware based so doesn't require anything much in the way of a PC to run.

I also agree that the broadcast flag like most DRM schemes do more to screw the people that pay for the material then to deter piracy.

Tom Weber

11-22-06, 08:57 AM

Everything I know about the Broadcast Flag at this point says that it does NOT impact the "down-rez" issue at all - only redistribution via Internet.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

nathill

11-22-06, 09:06 AM

Everything I know about the Broadcast Flag at this point says that it does NOT impact the "down-rez" issue at all - only redistribution via Internet.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

That is good news and a great way to start the day.
As always, thanks Tom!
Looking forward to years of great OTA HDTV through all of your stations.
Nat Hill IV

dabl

11-23-06, 07:19 PM

Steve please check your private messages re: WXIN-DT

--Don

dabl

11-23-06, 10:16 PM

Steve please check your private messages re: WXIN-DT

--Don

FOLLOWUP:

Thanks Steve,

just wanted to confirm at least two lost the WXIN-DT OTA signal tonight before posting publicly.

I'll alert Rick Poling at WXIN for the usual 'splicer' reboot.

--Don

dabl

11-24-06, 02:01 PM

...I'll alert Rick Poling at WXIN for the usual 'splicer' reboot.

--Don

FYI, got an automated email reply from Rick that he's out of town till Dec 5th.

I left email at http://fox59.trb.com/news/local/wxin-technical-email-story,0,3301299.htmlstory?coll=wxin-home-topnav hoping someone else on staff can take action in his place.

sjanson

11-26-06, 04:12 PM

Indianapolis - WXIN Fox 59....HD feed via Insight.
Chops, breakups and pixalization are making this feed unwatchable. Any non Insight customers seeing this?

Hef

11-26-06, 05:23 PM

I'm not getting any OTA analogue or digital FOX right now even though I have an 88% strength reading.

sjanson - what channel does FOX digital come on (if you have a qam tuner, you're not using their box) on Insight?

nathill

11-26-06, 05:59 PM

Indianapolis - WXIN Fox 59....HD feed via Insight.
Chops, breakups and pixalization are making this feed unwatchable. Any non Insight customers seeing this?

I've been watching since before 4:00 PM on OTA Fox 59's digital signal, and it's been perfect.
In Bloomington, Fox's digital signal is perhaps the highest broadcast frequency of any Insight digital channel. I'm talking actual broadcast frequency, not Insight's "funny numbers." I think it's 116-3, but I'm doing that from memory.
On my cable television system, FOX has been the most difficult digital channel to receive.
That may have nothing to do with your current problem, but it's at least worth bringing up for discussion.
Nat Hill IV

Tersanyus

11-26-06, 06:33 PM

Hef

11-26-06, 07:32 PM

My brother found he's FOX-DT channel on Insight Kokomo (thru his panny built-in qam) it's on 83.3. He said it looked good, no problems.

sjanson

11-26-06, 08:51 PM

This isnt the first time Ive seen issues with Insights Fox feed. And the OTA signal is fine. I can only assume its the cable co. I shot a message off to Rick, but havent heard back from him.

goldrich

11-26-06, 09:34 PM

Fox 59 is having some kind of issue. For about the last week my external HD tuner has the channel as 45.1 which is the actual broadcast channel. Both external receivers I have, Samsung SIR-T451's show this same issue. The built in tuner on my 32w6 shows the channel number fine as 59.1 but takes up to 30 seconds to show any video/audio.

WXIN has had this issue before. Not sure what the problem is but I have seen this happen to them before. Might have even talked about this in this very thread.

As for the picture? All is fine for me in that regard. Watched some NFL games today and all is fine.

Most likely the Fox splicer equipment needs to be rebooted again. Per previous posts, this happened in August and again last month. Most receivers continue to decode audio and video from WXIN-DT just fine, while a few select brands and models will not decode, even though the receiver indicates plenty of signal. And then some receivers, as you mentioned, will decode audio and video but do not remap and display the virtual channel information.

Per dabl's post on 11/23/06, this issue has existed since that evening. Dabl and I have sent emails to Rick Poling, but then we received an auto response reply that he is out of his office until December 5. I then sent an email to the station's engineering department, but so far I have not received a response. If no response by tomorrow, I will attempt to call the station.

Steve

goldrich

11-27-06, 11:13 AM

Most likely the Fox splicer equipment needs to be rebooted again. Per previous posts, this happened in August and again last month. Most receivers continue to decode audio and video from WXIN-DT just fine, while a few select brands and models will not decode, even though the receiver indicates plenty of signal. And then some receivers, as you mentioned, will decode audio and video but do not remap and display the virtual channel information.

Per dabl's post on 11/23/06, this issue has existed since that evening. Dabl and I have sent emails to Rick Poling, but then we received an auto response reply that he is out of his office until December 5. I then sent an email to the station's engineering department, but so far I have not received a response. If no response by tomorrow, I will attempt to call the station.

Steve

This morning I received an email reply from Rich Kittilstved, Director of Engineering at WXIN. He stated that he and Rick performed a reboot of the "Fox splicer" last Wednesday, November 22. Apparently that did not solve the issue. The staff is "presently looking into the issue and its cause."

Thanks, Rich, for the reply and good luck in locating the cause.

Steve

goldrich

11-27-06, 02:44 PM

Hopefully all is well again with the WXIN-DT signal and ALL receivers are properly decoding audio/video and PSIP. One of my STBs is once again decoding the signal.

sjanson, see if your WXIN-DT feed via Insight is okay now. Maybe the signal issue at WXIN was causing the Insight problem (?).

Steve

twilliamsjr55

11-27-06, 05:32 PM

dabl

11-28-06, 09:35 AM

The Mox

11-28-06, 10:53 AM

I sent an e-mail to engineering about the WXIN problems I was also having with the broadcasts as being carried by Insight.

The reply I recieved today..

Dear Mr. C.......,

The problem (chops, breakups and pixelization) you experienced over the
weekend while viewing Fox 59's HD signal appears to have been isolated to a
couple of the Insight Cable systems. I've spoken with Insight's Engineering
Department and although the problem has cleared itself they are looking into
the matter.

Thanks for watching Fox 59
Rich Kittilstved
Director of Engineering
WXIN / WTTV Indianapolis

jrcorwin

11-28-06, 11:48 AM

I will soon be getting a Philips 42" Plasma...

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/tree/TV_GR_US_CONSUMER/FLAT_TV_CA_US_CONSUMER/PLASMA_LARGE_32_42_SU_US_CONSUMER/product/42PF5321D_37_US_CONSUMER/catalog.jsp?language=en&country=US&catalogType=CONSUMER&proxybuster=NBK4I2ZKHLB15J0RMRESHQFHKFSEKI5P

It has this information listed:
Tuner/Reception/Transmission

Tuner bands : Hyperband, S-Channel, UHF, VHF
TV system : ATSC, NTSC
Video Playback : NTSC
Aerial Input : 75 ohm F-type
Cable : Unscrambled Digital Cable -QAM

I've heard that those with "QAM" can sometimes pick up HD by just hooking up the coaxial without a cable box. What are my chances of this working for me in the Indianapolis/Lawrence area? Might I get locals in HD or possibly others (i.e. ESPN)?

FYI...this will be done with Comcast cable.

Thank you all so much for your help!

P.S. - Just to add a bit of info....it appears that Comcast has the local HD on channels over 200. This info is listed in the user manual for the TV I am purchasing:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q124/jrcorwin31/Channel.jpg

Does that mean that I cannot get any channel over 125 without a box from Comcast? I'm confused...thank you again...

sjanson

11-28-06, 12:31 PM

Hey TheMox - I got the exact same response.

George Molnar

11-28-06, 05:10 PM

jrcorwin

11-28-06, 05:55 PM

Over the air channels have 2-13 on VHF frequencies and 14-69 on UHF frequencies and cable channels make use of unused spectrum between to "add" channels and their renumbering scheme just happens that UHF ch. 69 frequencies = Cable ch. 125 frequencies. You may notice that UHF OTA channel 16 can be received on cable ch. 67, and it works like this 14=65, 15=66 and 67=123, 68=124 and 69=125 and the reason not exactly related is because they skip over cable chs. 95-99 along the way. Kinda confusing.
Yep, it is a bit confusing....but I'm slightly less confused than before...yet I still have a long way to go. :) Thank you for the input. I appreciate it.

If I plug that tv in and right off the bat I pick up atleast local HD via the cable...I will be one happy camper. My wife doesn't like the indoor antenna setup so this would save me....a discussion....

goldrich

11-28-06, 07:18 PM

I just installed a Phillips MANT 901 antenna and a pre-amp. I live in Cloverdale about 35-40 miles South-West from all the Indy Stations. I get all of the analog signals but ony Wish TV in HD with a 70 signal power. They all are about the same
compass direction from Cloverdale. I will be grateful for any help.

Tommy

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with that antenna, and I'm not able to locate it via an internet search. Is it an indoor antenna? At that distance some indoor antennas in some locations might work well, but it could be that you happen to be in a bad reception spot for DTV. There could be various reasons for your lack of DTV stations.

It is a little different twist that your only DTV station at the moment is WISH-DT, currently the only Indy DTV on a VHF channel (9). Most viewers in this area using an indoor antenna seem to report that WISH-DT is the one station they CAN'T receive. Apparently your antenna seems to be doing a better job of receiving VHF signals than UHF signals.

Also, what brand/model/type of pre-amp are you using? Some pre-amps are for VHF and UHF. Some amplify VHF signals and just pass the UHF signals, while some amplify VHF signals but DO NOT pass UHF signals (frequencies). Or, some pre-amps can be switched to various combinations. Let us know exactly what you have and hopefully we can figure it out and help you.

As a quick test, have you tried moving the antenna to other locations? Sometimes moving it just a few feet, or even a few inches, can be the difference between a "hot" signal spot and a "cold" signal spot.

Steve

twilliamsjr55

11-28-06, 07:43 PM

wrwine3

11-29-06, 08:47 AM

P.S. - Just to add a bit of info....it appears that Comcast has the local HD on channels over 200. This info is listed in the user manual for the TV I am purchasing:

Does that mean that I cannot get any channel over 125 without a box from Comcast? I'm confused...thank you again...

The channels over 200 are virtual channel numbers that are remapped from lower channels. On my Comcast in Muncie I receive all the HD locals via QAM. The channels are between 68 and 86. The strangest numbered channel I receive is 76-300. It is similar to Fox 59-1 that is actually broadcast on channel 45-1 over the air.

With a few exceptions, the only unencrypted channels are the local broadcast channels. If you want HD movie channels, you need the set top box from Comcast.

goldrich

11-29-06, 11:55 AM

I have a Magnavox model M61112 outdoor antenna amplifer and an outdoor antenna about 25 ft. from the ground. The antenna has 51 elements and states that it meets or exceeds CEA standards. I bought it from Menards. The only picture That I found was at ebay, someone was trying to sell one.

Thank you,

Tommy

Tommy,

Earlier today I was passing an Indy Menards so I stopped (needed a few items anyway) and looked at the antenna and preamp you have. If all is hooked up correctly and working okay, I don't understand why you aren't able to receive the most powerful UHF DTVs (WRTV-DT and WTHR-DT). Thanksgiving morning I was in Kokomo, at about the same distance you are from the Indy antenna farm, and I was about to get these stations with a very small indoor antenna (Silver Sensor).

Just to make sure the preamp is not defective, or picking up some kind of interference in your immediate area, you could remove the preamp and just run your coaxial cable straight from the antenna to your DTV receiver. At your distance, there should be enough raw signal from the antenna for your receiver to decode most of the Indy UHF DTVs. Maybe you could try this yet today, before the rain and much colder weather moves in tonight.

BTW, some DTV receivers are VERY SENSITIVE to TOO MUCH signal. MAYBE your preamp is too strong for your particular receiver. Just another possibility. Removing the preamp equipment could help answer this.

Steve

jasonblair

11-29-06, 12:41 PM

Good news! Tribune and DirecTV came to an agreement! WXIN is up on DirecTV in HD (for those of you with an H20 or HR20.)

Now we've only got to get WISH-8 on the ball!

sjanson

11-29-06, 03:03 PM

Tommy,

Earlier today I was passing an Indy Menards so I stopped (needed a few items anyway) and looked at the antenna and preamp you have. If all is hooked up correctly and working okay, I don't understand why you aren't able to receive the most powerful UHF DTVs (WRTV-DT and WTHR-DT). Thanksgiving morning I was in Kokomo, at about the same distance you are from the Indy antenna farm, and I was about to get these stations with a very small indoor antenna (Silver Sensor).

Just to make sure the preamp is not defective, or picking up some kind of interference in your immediate area, you could remove the preamp and just run your coaxial cable straight from the antenna to your DTV receiver. At your distance, there should be enough raw signal from the antenna for your receiver to decode most of the Indy UHF DTVs. Maybe you could try this yet today, before the rain and much colder weather moves in tonight.

BTW, some DTV receivers are VERY SENSITIVE to TOO MUCH signal. MAYBE your preamp is too strong for your particular receiver. Just another possibility. Removing the preamp equipment could help answer this.

Steve
I have seen similar problems - try turning down (if possible) or removing the pre-amp. Good luck.

MAX HD

11-29-06, 05:27 PM

OkTom Weber,where have you hidden the audio on LWS?.Has been absent here on 3 different receivers for several days now.Is there a problem?

Thanks,
Greg B

BRADH

11-29-06, 05:37 PM

Tom Weber

I have tried to watch 3LBS for the last two weeks and have had audio drop out every few seconds. (only on the HD 5.1.) The rest of you show are fine no drop outs. It only seems to be on 3LBS. Sorry if this has been posted before ( I didnt see it). I dont think its the cable company, because it only happens on this show.

Thanks
Brad

MassNerder

11-29-06, 08:45 PM

Hurray for Tribune and Fox 59 for getting on D*. Happy days. Now we just need LIN and WishTV. Not sure if anyone from Fox reads this, but Huzzah and thanks! Just in time for 24.....

jrcorwin

11-30-06, 01:23 AM

The channels over 200 are virtual channel numbers that are remapped from lower channels. On my Comcast in Muncie I receive all the HD locals via QAM. The channels are between 68 and 86. The strangest numbered channel I receive is 76-300. It is similar to Fox 59-1 that is actually broadcast on channel 45-1 over the air.

With a few exceptions, the only unencrypted channels are the local broadcast channels. If you want HD movie channels, you need the set top box from Comcast.
Thanks for the reply! I'll see what I get via QAM at first. We'll see if I can do without ESPN HD! :)

wrwine3

11-30-06, 07:12 AM

Thanks for the reply! I'll see what I get via QAM at first. We'll see if I can do without ESPN HD! :)

At the moment here in Muncie, that IS one of those exceptions.

dkgoalie

12-01-06, 10:49 AM

Les Auber

12-01-06, 12:43 PM

dk,
Can't talk to insight but the QAM tuner in both a Sony TV and S3 Tivo get the locals fine on brighthouse along with a couple others. The dark channels are encyrpted so you need either cable card or the cable box. All the locals seem to play fine.

Tom Weber

12-01-06, 02:44 PM

You won't have any more audio problems with 3 Lbs. I just read that it's been cancelled - after 3 whole airings!

I've sent the news of the Tribune/DirecTV deal up the chain - but don't hold your breath. Sigh.

On LWS, the audio is on the Left channel only. The Right channel has the trigger tones for the cable companies to insert commercials - so you should hear occasional "Boodely-doop" sounds on it.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

goldrich

12-01-06, 10:03 PM

Bright House (Indy/Carmel) is now offering A&E HD on channel 734.

Steve

BRADH

12-02-06, 09:38 AM

Thanks Tom

Do you know if its a CBS problem or WISH-HD. I hate to report this because I dont want this show to be cancelled :D CSI NY had the same audio problem this week.

Thanks
Brad

wrwine3

12-02-06, 10:09 AM

Please forgive my ignorance here as I've just stuck my big toe in the HDTV pond.

---

I just took delivery of an Olevia 527V which included a QAM tuner. For grins (after reading here and other places) I scanned my Insight and found around 300 digital channels. I would say 240+ were empty, 50+ were music choice channels, and 6 or 7 were HD locals.

With the HD locals, 4 DT comes in perfect while all the others are choppy at best and seem to appear and disappear with a channel change.

Am I to assume that this is an Insight problem? Problem might not be the correct term, I'm aware that they are there for the taking, so if they do not work as I would like them to, I cannot complain.

Just curious...

Thanks!

- dk

_

dk,

I would run the cable directly to the tv and check your reception.

Do you have the coax running through a power/surge protector? I have a couple of friends who had similar issues. Once they bypassed their cheap surge suppressor they no longer had issues. Also check any splitters for loose or empty connections. Avoid going through VCRs and DVD recorders if possible.

Hef

12-02-06, 11:01 AM

With Insight and unencrypted (free) channels you should only get the majors ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS; everything else is a plus if you're lucky to get it.

Hef

12-02-06, 11:06 AM

Is anyone having trouble getting OTA Indy PBS 20.1? I get it and have had no trouble with it for a year now, but within the last 4-5 days it's does this quick micro cutting in and out about every 30 seconds even thou the signal strength is strong.

Les Auber

12-02-06, 11:56 AM

Yep, a quick check shows the same here on 20.1. Brief pixelation every 10-30 seconds. Signal was running at ~87%.

goldrich

12-02-06, 12:23 PM

Yes, I'm noticing it too with WFYI-DT 20.1. It appears to be an issue at WFYI-DT as WIPB-DT 49.1, which is airing the same programming, is just fine.

Steve

XavierMike

12-02-06, 02:52 PM

I'm getting the audio drop outs every 30 seconds on PBS HD as well, and I have Comcast.

BRADH

12-02-06, 03:08 PM

IndyJeff

12-02-06, 11:35 PM

I'm getting the audio drop outs every 30 seconds on PBS HD as well, and I have Comcast.

Their digital SD channel is also very bad, with lots of breakups (OTA). I recorded a show from 20-2 on Friday evening and it was bad, as well as a show on 20-1 earlier today, and it was also very bad.

Tersanyus

12-03-06, 12:06 AM

Seems like WFYI 20.1 has issues lately. Signal strength is fine but acts like it fluctuates. I have noticed that once in a while the signal goes away completly. Sometimes for a few minutes sometimes a lot longer. Once in a while the signal is there but no video.

I think they are aware of the issue. If it's not fixed in a few days I'll e-mail them about it. I've emailed them when they have the "vertical hold" issue where the bottom 20% of the picture is on the top of the screen. Was that way for a few days. Got an email back and one of their techs came in on a Sunday morning and fixed it.

--Mike

T Heller

12-03-06, 04:11 PM

I'm an OTA-only viewer.

I like to query the full EPG (electronic program guide) to scan what's on currently and what's upcoming in the next few hours. But the program info for WTHR Ch. 13 ALWAYS seem to be wrong.

For instance, this Sunday afternoon at 3:30 PM, the EPG is showing "Meet the Press" for WTHR!!! Then NBC Sports event and father-son golf extending up to 11 PM!!!

Eyewitness News (is this WTHR's local news?) at 11 PM.

During the weekdays, the evening prime-time programming is listed as Montel WIlliams, Oprah and Dr. Phil. (I know NBC's primetime shows are not doing that well in the ratings, but I really don't think they've resorted to rebroadcasting their afternoon lineup, have they?)

I don't encounter inaccurate EPG info for any other OTA channel in Indy. I wonder if WTHR's EPG datastream has been unwittingly time-shifted.

Who manages the EPG datastream? How can this erroneous EPG info for WTHR be corrected?

greatscot

12-03-06, 06:48 PM

I live down in Brown Co. and I'm also having the same problem with Channel 20-1.
I can get the same programs on Channel 30-1, but they only seem to broadcast Dolby Digital 2.0

Dave

nathill

12-04-06, 01:51 AM

Yep, a quick check shows the same here on 20.1. Brief pixelation every 10-30 seconds. Signal was running at ~87%.
Same picture issues for me, signal strength is strong.

goldrich

12-04-06, 10:26 AM

T Heller,

I'm checking into WTHR-DT's EPG.

Steve

ysaric

12-04-06, 10:50 AM

I have insight cable. The only audio drops I have had are the few from CBS HD.
But shows before and after that in DD 5.1 are fine. Thats why I was wondering if this could be a CBS broadcast problem. I know WISH just sends out want they get from CBS. I dont have anyway of get the OTA signal right know or I would try and see if the problem is present using OTA as well.

Brad

I have Insight cable and one gripe I have about the HD channels is that when watching an HD program that then drops to local commercials or news updates the voume jumps . . . a fair bit. I hate having to adjust the volume manually or mute every commercial break. Has anyone talked to Insight about this? Does this also happen for OTA or satellite?

Oh yah one other gripe--sometimes HD programs will stutter/skip, which gets solved by unplugging the unit and plugging it back in. I wouldn't even have a huge problem with that even though it is annoying, except that doing so interrupts the DVR functions so if I'm taping something and watching something in HD when this symptom occurs my choices are pretty limited.

stonegossard

12-04-06, 02:27 PM

ysaric,

I'm having the same problem with my Insight STB where the HD programs stutter and also my remote suddenly stops responding. Once I unplug the STB and then plug it back in...everything seems to get back on track. While not a HUGE deal, it certainly is quite annoying to say the least. Luckily i just switch over to the CABLECARD while I do this and I get to keep watching tv.

BRADH

12-04-06, 02:55 PM

ysaric

I have had to same problems as well. I just seems that with audio problem only happening on CBS-HD and being hit and miss (maybe one show a week) that this problem may not be Insight.

Brad

ysaric

12-04-06, 03:02 PM

Brad:

While CBS may actually be the worst offender, I am surprised you have no symptoms on NBC, Fox or ABC to varying degrees, as that has certainly been my experience. But CBS is bad . . . during the Colts game I just had to mute the commercials out (sports is pretty much the only reason I watch CBS). As another example the other day I happened to be home and had The Today Show on in HD (James Taylor was performing), and I had the same symptoms whenever the show would cut to the local weather guy from the local feed. I was just popping on here to see if anyone OTA or satellite has similar experiences.

Jim

BRADH

12-04-06, 03:35 PM

Jim

I have had Discovery-HD lose audio a few times, but its only 1 or 2 times during a show when it happens. With CBS it only happened on a few shows, the funny things is the show before and after are fine.

Yes the commercials are bad. I was watching FOX news and to my surprise you cant hardly here there commercials. They went the other way :D .

Brad

Tersanyus

12-04-06, 05:41 PM

Yeah, WTHR 13.1's programming info is off. I noticed this a bit yesterday. Said Good Morning AM Sunrise at like noon yesterday.

Right now it's a bit past 5:30 , it says "Eyewitness news @ 12:30" with "Passions" coming up next. Looks like it is 5 hours behind. I can't see a full guide on my Westinghouse just whats on now and coming up next.

--Mike

KBandy

12-04-06, 05:48 PM

goldrich

12-05-06, 09:54 AM

Update from WTHR-DT regarding the program guide........................

============================================================ ============================================================ ===

We are aware that the WTHR-DT PSIP EPG times are five hours off. Our “PSIP Plus” computer which generates the EPG recently crashed and had to be cold booted. It rebooted with the EPG times showing in GMT rather than local Indianapolis time. We tried every possible remedy including resetting the computer time, the program time and encoder time, and even cold booting the computer again with no luck. The PSIP Plus manufacturer was unable to solve the problem but recommended to instead load the latest PSIP Plus software which is said to fix several issues.

Frankly, all hands have been so tied up with the HD Newscast launch and several other major projects that downloading and installing the new PSIP Plus software version is on the “to do” list. Please bear with us as we will soon have the new PSIP/EPG software version downloaded and installed and that will hopefully fix the GMT problem.

Al Grossniklaus

Director of Engineering & Operations

WTHR NBC 13

Indianapolis

============================================================ ===================

T Heller

12-05-06, 10:04 AM

Hef

12-05-06, 12:29 PM

T Heller

12-06-06, 07:16 PM

Well now 20.1 shows no signal strength "0". I sent them an email yesterday and they responded saying they were aware of the digital reception problem and are trying to fix the problem, but that "it's slow going" - Robin Toulouse.

This evening (Weds 7 pm), the signals for 20-1, -2 and -3 are absolutely rock-solid. Big change from last night.

Whatever they did, they did a great job! Many thanks to them.

I've even noticed 5.1 sound on 20-3 on the studio feed (not filmed reports) on "The News Hour with Jim Lehrer". I don't think I'd ever noticed that before.

Things keep getting better.

Hef

12-06-06, 09:05 PM

Yeah I'm back to a solid picture 20.1, so far. great.

IndyTom

12-08-06, 12:03 PM

This evening (Weds 7 pm), the signals for 20-1, -2 and -3 are absolutely rock-solid. Big change from last night.

Whatever they did, they did a great job! Many thanks to them.

I've even noticed 5.1 sound on 20-3 on the studio feed (not filmed reports) on "The News Hour with Jim Lehrer". I don't think I'd ever noticed that before.

Things keep getting better.

:) I almost spit my drink out laughing when I read that you were excited to get Jim Lehrer in 5.1 sound.

Whenever I mention, in my excitement, the slightest enhancement to HD - I am usually met with rolling eyes from the wife.

rustysedam

12-08-06, 05:41 PM

Ok I'm baffled here and could use some help.

I had a 6 ft radio shack antenna and am 12 miles from the towers that service my area in 47804. All are within 1/8 of a mile from each other. On my HDTV, I was getting a signal strength of 7 for our channel 2.1, 30 for 10.1, and 0 (yes zero) for our channel 38.1. I can't keep a consistant picture for 38.1 and I wanted the other stations to be better.

I bought a Winegard HD8200P antenna at over $100 (which I believe is just about their top of the line antenna). The sucker is 14 feet long and I've read nothing but great reviews for it. I put it on the chimney of a story and 1/2 house just like the old one was and I get no better signal strength than I did with my $30 radio shack antenna. I am using RG-6 cable...straight shot from TV to rooftop, no splits and one continuous cable of about 50 ft.

Is this normal or am I missing something here??

George Molnar

12-08-06, 05:56 PM

rustysedam

12-08-06, 09:24 PM

Can you hook this antenna to an old-fashioned t.v. and judge the quality of signals from the original channels 2, 10 and 38 as opposed to their simulcasted digital channels?

Well, the analog channels are good except for 2. It's snowy, but comes in good on digital despite only a 7 out of 100 signal strength. The antenna did eliminate the ghosting or multipath I had with my old antenna on analog channels. But 10 and 38 (38 being the channel I'm getting 0 digital signal strength on) are good on analog.

timarnett

12-08-06, 10:11 PM

T Heller

12-08-06, 10:12 PM

[QUOTE=IndyTom]:) I almost spit my drink out laughing when I read that you were excited to get Jim Lehrer in 5.1 sound. /QUOTE]

I didn't say I got excited, just that I noticed it. (Wish they'd mute Gwen Ifill and her weekly group, though. They were simply horrible tonight.)

George Molnar

12-09-06, 10:28 AM

Well, the analog channels are good except for 2. It's snowy, but comes in good on digital despite only a 7 out of 100 signal strength. The antenna did eliminate the ghosting or multipath I had with my old antenna on analog channels. But 10 and 38 (38 being the channel I'm getting 0 digital signal strength on) are good on analog.
If analog 2 is snowy from a big, outdoor antenna 30-ft in the air with one 50-ft chunk of RG-6 and only 15 miles from the tower there must be some huge obstruction or obstacle, or something wrong with your antenna system. Are you sure the front of the antenna is pointed directlly at the towers? (Antennas will perform poorly if pointed off-axes or even backwards.)

rustysedam

12-09-06, 11:17 AM

If analog 2 is snowy from a big, outdoor antenna 30-ft in the air with one 50-ft chunk of RG-6 and only 15 miles from the tower there must be some huge obstruction or obstacle, or something wrong with your antenna system. Are you sure the front of the antenna is pointed directlly at the towers? (Antennas will perform poorly if pointed off-axes or even backwards.)

I agree. I pointed the antenna using AntennaWeb.org and tried pointing it to the specific degrees listed for each channel (2,10,38) to see if either channels signal strength would improve. I did realize that I am 18 miles away and not 15, but wouldn't think this would make much of a difference.

George Molnar

12-09-06, 11:52 AM

I agree. I pointed the antenna using AntennaWeb.org and tried pointing it to the specific degrees listed for each channel (2,10,38) to see if either channels signal strength would improve. I did realize that I am 18 miles away and not 15, but wouldn't think this would make much of a difference.
Maybe the thing to do is rotate antenna fullly to maximize analog reception and minimize snow, ghosts, etc. The aiming "width" of your antenna varies by channel http://www.winegard.com/offair/antennas/hd8200p.htm and you have a fair amount of wiggle room when aiming. But even at 18 miles ch. 2 should not have any snow, and all 3 old chs. 2, 10, and 38 should be perfect, and since not explains poor receiving of digital chs. How do the other Terre Haute chs. look? http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=IN&call=&arn=&city=terre+haute&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

IndyJeff

12-12-06, 12:13 AM

I got a new TV tonight for the bedroom (a 26" Toshiba Regza LCD - 26HLV66), which has a built-in QAM tuner. I hooked it up to the Comcast analog cable feed in the bedroom, and did a channel scan, and got a nice suite of HD channels to enjoy.

Here are the HD channels I found (there were also some non-HD digitals that it found, along with all the music channels, which I'm not listing here):

75-1: WRTV-DT (ABC)
75-2: WTTV-DT (CW)
77-1: ESPN-HD
77-2: Discovery HD
78-2: TNT HD
80-1: WXIN-DT (Fox)
80-2: WTHR-DT (NBC)
81-1: WISH-DT (CBS)
81-4: WFYI-DT (PBS)
82-1: IN-HD

This is kind of a nice bonus! I couldn't find this list anywhere on Google, so maybe it will be useful to someone out there.

Also, I'm almost certain I got a 1080i feed of NBA-TV earlier this evening on one of the channels, but I can't find it now. 84-1 is currently showing an advertising loop for NBA in 480i, so maybe it switches between SD and HD depending on whether or not there is content. I'll watch for some content on this channel in the future.

Jeff

goldrich

12-12-06, 08:13 AM

As of yesterday, I noticed that WDTI-DT 44 (69-1), Indy, is now on the air, but the signal is very, very weak. Apparently for now, it is operating under the STA which authorizes the station to transmit with 500 watts (directional antenna) @ a little over 400 feet. The tower is located just west of Hinkle Fieldhouse (Butler Univ.).
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=7908

WDTI (TV-69/DT-44) is an affiliate of Daystar (religious) and broadcasts SD only.

Steve

wrwine3

12-12-06, 09:05 AM

TazFan

12-12-06, 01:52 PM

Hey all!

I looking to purchase a preamp so to pull VHF & UHF Indy stations 50 miles at 66 degrees. I am concerned that by installing the preamp, my 'local' stations at 30 miles and 224 degrees will over power the Indy stations.

I am currently running an outside RS antenna 20' high, pointing at 66 degrees (don't know the exact model but it was the top RS model 10 years ago), a balun, 50' RG-59 (I think), 4-way splitter, and 3 loads (TV, Dish 811, radio with balun).

Most of the Indy DTVs are at 45-50% expect for WISH at 65% and occasionally WRTV (both barely enough to lock). I don't get ANY local DTV but I do know channel 38 analog comes in real crappy.

I am deciding between a CM-0064DSB or WG AP8283 (or AP8783) preamp and then replacing the antenna balun with a 1-2 foot 300ohm run to the preamp.

Any comments or recommendations (beside moving closing to Indy...right now anyway...)

Thanks
Steve

Tersanyus

12-12-06, 04:16 PM

75-1: WRTV-DT (ABC)
75-2: WTTV-DT (CW)
77-1: ESPN-HD
77-2: Discovery HD
78-2: TNT HD
80-1: WXIN-DT (Fox)
80-2: WTHR-DT (NBC)
81-1: WISH-DT (CBS)
81-4: WFYI-DT (PBS)
82-1: IN-HD

Interesting. I have Comcast basic here in Indy and used to get some of those channels via the QAM tuner in my Westinghouse 32w6 and Samsung SIR-T451. I no longer get 75.1, 75.2 and 78.2. I never got 77.1 or 77.2. WRTV and WTTV used to be there but they pixellated so badly they were unwatchable. I know it wasn't me as my outdoor antenna picked up those stations fine. Then one day 75.1 and .2 were gone. I never relied on the QAM tuner. I just liked being able to see INHD. I used to get 82.2 which was INHD2.

I just scanned again for the channels you get that I don't. I wouldn't mind seeing Discovery HD and ESPN HD. I even scanned all 3 cable bands, Standard, IRC and HRC didn't get those extra channels you get.

Maybe it's different in different parts of the city?

goldrich

12-12-06, 04:43 PM

Hey Steve,

Sounds like a good plan but here are a few things you might think about or check out before spending any money. Most of them are contained within this info... http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html

If you are currently using RG-59 coax instead of RG-6, you're probably averaging at least an extra 1 dB loss through your 50 feet of coax.

The one item in your current setup that really stands out to me is the 4-way splitter. I have one, but I don't use it anymore. That thing can really kill a lot of your signal strength. Per the link above, the loss from a 4-to-1 splitter can be as high as 7-8 dB. That's a huge loss. Have you checked your DTV signal strength without the 4-way splitter on the line? It would be a good test to see how your DTV signals are (without a preamp) plus to see if your analog stations, like ch. 38, are stronger.

Do you have any AM or FM radio towers nearby? If so, this could factor into deciding which preamp to buy.

It's probably not a big issue, but it is usually better to use coaxial cable between the antenna and the preamp instead of 300-ohm twinlead. Twinlead is more susceptible to picking up unwanted signals and interference (noise), which then travels all the way down the rest of the coaxial cable into the receiver. Less noise into the DTV receiver is one factor that should reduce dropouts, etc.

Also, are you using a rotor to turn the antenna from 66 degrees for Indy, to 224 degrees for Terre Haute? At 50 miles, being off just a few degrees can be the difference between receiving and not receiving a locked DTV signal.

From the link above....."For a DTV channel, 1 dB can be the difference between dropouts every 15 minutes (probably acceptable) and every 30 seconds (unwatchable)."

My 2 cents. I hope this helps.

Steve

IndyJeff

12-12-06, 06:29 PM

Interesting. I have Comcast basic here in Indy and used to get some of those channels via the QAM tuner in my Westinghouse 32w6 and Samsung SIR-T451. I no longer get 75.1, 75.2 and 78.2. I never got 77.1 or 77.2. WRTV and WTTV used to be there but they pixellated so badly they were unwatchable. I know it wasn't me as my outdoor antenna picked up those stations fine. Then one day 75.1 and .2 were gone. I never relied on the QAM tuner. I just liked being able to see INHD. I used to get 82.2 which was INHD2.

I just scanned again for the channels you get that I don't. I wouldn't mind seeing Discovery HD and ESPN HD. I even scanned all 3 cable bands, Standard, IRC and HRC didn't get those extra channels you get.

Maybe it's different in different parts of the city?

I also should have mentioned that I subscribe to their HD package with digital channels for the main room, but I never had a cable box for the bedroom. Maybe because of that the QAM channels are coming through.

But yeah, I won't rely on them being there forever.

Jeff

jrcorwin

12-13-06, 12:19 PM

I emailed WRTV this morning and asked when they might be making the move for an HD newscast. Here is the response I received:

We will make the change to digital widescreen this year. Thanks

Brian K Vetor
WRTV Engineering
317-269-XXXX

So, I emailed him back and asked if he meant digital SD in 16:9 or actual HD in 16:9....I'll let you know what the response is.

UPDATE:My latest response from WRTV...

It will be 2007 and we will upconvert 50 MBps 601 16x9 to HD. Thanks
Brian K Vetor
WRTV Engineering
317-269-XXXX

...I don't know what that means...help guys...thanks...

jrcorwin

12-13-06, 12:22 PM

corrnd

12-13-06, 01:57 PM

I never could find any specific info about any unencrypted QAM channels on Brighthouse in downtown Indy, so I took the plunge and bought a HD/QAM tuner for my HTPC (FusionHDTV5 RT Lite for anybody that's curious). It arrived on Monday and here's what I can pick up on my basic analog service:

ABC HD
CBS HD
NBC HD
Fox HD
PBS HD
The CW HD
News 6
Encore
old movies (I haven't been able to figure out what station this is because I can't identify the movies)
NBA4U (a station that runs non-stop commercials for "NBA League Pass")
iNDA (a station that tries to sell you pay-per-view movies)

There were maybe a dozen channels that it picked up as unencrypted QAM64 (I assume music channels) and a handful of QAM256, but I get a black screen and no sound when I tune those. Not sure what's going on there. I don't really care, though. I was mostly going for the major networks and ESPNHD if I got lucky (unfortunately, no).

jrcorwin

12-13-06, 03:39 PM

Eleven

12-14-06, 02:47 PM

Ken Myers

12-17-06, 09:28 AM

I'm using a rooftop antenna with a ChannelMaster 7777 amp. I live near Clay Co. / Vigo Co. line.. and point to Farmersburg...

I get perfect signal from channel 10, and about 78% from Channel 2. Channel 38 hasn't come in consistantly for a very VERY long time.

Don't expect any help/improvement from NexStar... they simply don't care.

Yeah, WTHI-DT is running full power for RF 24 (188Kw ERP - I think...). Although we are planning on returning to RF 10 when the analogs go away. Seems to be a better fit for the area. Kind of interesting to note, but purely coincidental I think, LIN TV (owners of WTHI and others) occupies RF channels 8 WISH, 9 WISH-DT, 10 WTHI, and 11 WLFI-DT. Just an interesting side line.
Ken

dehaai5

12-17-06, 06:55 PM

Hello all. I've been experiencing problems for about a month now with shows on Fox 59-1 where the audio totally stops for 3-5 seconds and then comes back on. It seems to be especially prevalent during their Sunday night programming. Does anyone know if they are aware of this issue, and if so, when they might have it fixed?

Thanks - Joe

nathill

12-18-06, 11:02 AM

jrcorwin

12-19-06, 09:33 AM

Very interesting...thanks for the feedback. I'll post my results via Comcast on Monday night.
Alright, I couldn't post my "results" last night....because I have no results! :(

Allow me to explain. Cable comes into basement...through amplifier....to a 4-way splitter (only two TV's attached at this time however). The main TV (27" SD) in the living room works just fine...no problems with the cable there. My new HDTV in the bedroom however, no such luck. I get no signal at all...actually it's as if the coaxial cable is working as a bit of a weak antenna. I get the faintest picture on channels 6, 8, 13....of course these are the OTA analog channels rather than cable.

This is brand new HDTV right out of the box last night. So, I thought maybe it's my TV at first. So, I grabbed this little 17" or so TV and tested it. It works fine on the regular TV in the living room. I thing took it to the bedroom and connected the coaxial...same results as the HDTV hookup.

FYI...this is my father-in-laws house...the cable used to work in this bedroom and nothing has been changed since then.

I am thinking that is must either be the splitter, the amp, or the coaxial. Tonight on my way home from work I will pick up the best 4-way splitter Radio Shack has and also swap the cable out for a new one. The amp seems to be working just fine. I'll just hope for the best. I was looking forward to this last night and it didn't go well. Everything else is hook up and ready to go....now I just need a TV signal.

Anyone have any suggestions or should I continue with my plans to swap the splitter and coaxial for new ones?

RWB

12-19-06, 09:54 AM

Yeah, WTHI-DT is running full power for RF 24 (188Kw ERP - I think...). Although we are planning on returning to RF 10 when the analogs go away.
Ken

Thanks for the heads up Ken. Looks like I have a couple years before I need to re-invest in a yagi. On a side note I've been transferring some of my old family VHS home movies onto dvd. I have a shot of my 5 year old son standing next to Kevin "What's the weather like" O during ISU's homecoming parade. They are about the same height. :eek: ;)

Like others have posted FOX38 has been a problem lately. Strange that I can get CW4 at 70 miles away yet lose signal with a tower 29 miles away.

RWB

12-19-06, 11:06 AM

I know in the past some members here have actually met for a home theater demo or just group gathering meet/greet in Avon Indiana. Just to toss it out there would anyone in the greater Terre Haute area be interested in trying to arrange something similar?

I will assume usually if your checking out the HD forum you're probably into all of the A/V experience so we wouldn't limit it to just talking HD tv. Also I do not mean to exclude anyone in asking only about THaute or the Valley. It would be open to anyone who enjoys this hobby. It seems usually you have to start small or local to see if there is any interest and then expand from there.

corrnd

12-19-06, 02:33 PM

jrcorwin

12-19-06, 03:16 PM

UPDATE: as of Sunday, I appear to have lost NBC HD to encryption. Damnit, no more Sunday Night Football in HD unless I go to the OTA tuner connected to my office computer. Why would they suddenly start encrypting just NBC? That doesn't make any sense to me. . .
I thought they couldn't encrypt locals? I'm just getting more and more confused....

corrnd

12-19-06, 03:46 PM

I thought they couldn't encrypt locals? I'm just getting more and more confused....
I'm not sure about rules regarding that, I just know that when I tried to tune NBC on Sunday, I got a black screen and then yesterday my tuner showed it as an encrypted channel. I have no problems tuning any of the other channels. I hope you're right and this is just a temporary error.

jrcorwin

12-19-06, 04:21 PM

goldrich

12-20-06, 03:18 PM

UPDATE: as of Sunday, I appear to have lost NBC HD to encryption. Damnit, no more Sunday Night Football in HD unless I go to the OTA tuner connected to my office computer. Why would they suddenly start encrypting just NBC? That doesn't make any sense to me. . .

FYI, no problem here receiving NBC on ch. 713 (WTHR-DT) via QAM from Bright House (Carmel).

Steve

jrcorwin

12-22-06, 09:09 AM

Allow me to give you all a quick update and then I'll stop talking about it...

I had purchased my new HDTV (42" Plasma) w/ QAM tuner. I was curious what HD, if any, would get picked up via QAM.

- First night (Monday)...nothing at all...not even analog. Turns out that the coaxial leading to this room was suffering from water damage or something of the sort.

- Tuesday night I replaced the cable and the old splitter being used....I then got CBS HD, NBC HD, FOX HD, and PBS HD. I had ABC HD for a moment, but lost it and couldn't find it again. I then decided to try and replace the signal amplifier being used in the basement...also fixing the connection. The splitter was before the amp...with one line around it and directly into the living room TV and two bedroom TV's being fed cable through the amp. Now the cable comes into the house...through the signal booster, and then into the splitter.

- Wednesday night I purchased the Motorola signal booster and replaced the old amplifier. The picture went from very good...to perfect. Still couldn't pull in ABC HD or CBS HD on a regular basis. I would always drop one or the other. I was having another curious problem as well. The TV allows you to select favorite channels. I was choosing only the HD ones. I would had them to my favorites list and then a few minutes later I would check it....and a few would be missing. Then a few minutes later...even more had just disappeared from my list. I didn't know what to do and had about given up....

- Thursday night...oh Christmas came early my friends. My plasma has a USB port...I knew that I could update the firmware this way, but honestly didn't expect much of a difference. According to the menu on my screen the firmware was current as of August 2006. The firmware on the Philips website did not say which version it was and I was just afraid I would screw something up. Anyway...I decided to give it a try and I downloaded the update to a USB memory stick. Plugged it in and about 20 seconds later it was done. I first learned that my favorites were now saving and not disappearing. This was good news and good enough for me. However...I did decided to do a new channel scan....now I get:

ABC-HD
CBS-HD
NBC-HD
FOX-HD
CW-HD
PBS-HD
INHD
INHD2
Discovery HD
TNT-HD
ESPN-HD

Needless to say...this is the closest I have come to wetting my pants in many, many years....sober anyway. :)

Now, the day after Christmas I will be purchasing the HD-DVD drive for my XBOX 360...and my HDTV life will be complete? ...for now anyway...

Anyway...thank you for the feedback along the way...I really appreciate all of you and this forum.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year....be careful out there folks.

goldrich

12-22-06, 09:23 AM

I'm not sure about rules regarding that, I just know that when I tried to tune NBC on Sunday, I got a black screen and then yesterday my tuner showed it as an encrypted channel. I have no problems tuning any of the other channels. I hope you're right and this is just a temporary error.

Your comments above might be related to this update I just received from WTHR-DT. ..................Steve

............................................................ ..........................

Date: 12-21-06 12:58

As a ‘heads up’ I wanted to alert the Indy Forum that, due to installing new PSIP computer software to fix the program guide time error (12-5 post), as a result we’ve had to also make some manufacturer recommended upgrades and changes to the HD encoder. If you’ve lost WTHR-DT programming you may need to delete channels 13.1 and 13.2 from your receiver then do a new DTV channel search to get your receiver to again decode WTHR-DT programming. For the member who lost WTHR HD on cable this is a likely culprit and the fix is the same.

In order to fix several other HD encoder ‘issues’ we’ve found the PSIP ‘fix’ has caused, we’ve now been strongly urged by the HD encoder manufacturer to install their latest encoder software version. So please bear with us over the next few days as we find a non-HD time to take HD down briefly while the new encoder software uploads and boots. Once that is done, if you find you’ve lost WTHR-DT you may need to have your set do a DTV re-scan.

Al Grossniklaus

Director of Engineering & Operations

WTHR NBC 13

Indianapolis

IndyJeff

12-22-06, 10:23 PM

Alright, I couldn't post my "results" last night....because I have no results! :(

Allow me to explain. Cable comes into basement...through amplifier....to a 4-way splitter (only two TV's attached at this time however). The main TV (27" SD) in the living room works just fine...no problems with the cable there. My new HDTV in the bedroom however, no such luck. I get no signal at all...actually it's as if the coaxial cable is working as a bit of a weak antenna. I get the faintest picture on channels 6, 8, 13....of course these are the OTA analog channels rather than cable.

This is brand new HDTV right out of the box last night. So, I thought maybe it's my TV at first. So, I grabbed this little 17" or so TV and tested it. It works fine on the regular TV in the living room. I thing took it to the bedroom and connected the coaxial...same results as the HDTV hookup.

FYI...this is my father-in-laws house...the cable used to work in this bedroom and nothing has been changed since then.

I am thinking that is must either be the splitter, the amp, or the coaxial. Tonight on my way home from work I will pick up the best 4-way splitter Radio Shack has and also swap the cable out for a new one. The amp seems to be working just fine. I'll just hope for the best. I was looking forward to this last night and it didn't go well. Everything else is hook up and ready to go....now I just need a TV signal.

Anyone have any suggestions or should I continue with my plans to swap the splitter and coaxial for new ones?

When I got my new TV it was like this as well. I had to go into the configuration and specify whether the input was antenna or cable (something I don't ever remember having to do on any other TVs).

Once I set it so that the antenna input was mapped to "Cable", everything worked as expected.

Could this possibly be your problem?

jrcorwin

12-23-06, 02:25 PM

When I got my new TV it was like this as well. I had to go into the configuration and specify whether the input was antenna or cable (something I don't ever remember having to do on any other TVs).

Once I set it so that the antenna input was mapped to "Cable", everything worked as expected.

Could this possibly be your problem?
Check post #3483...I fixed the problem. I did try your suggestion before though. Thank you for the reply...I appreciate all the help around here.

ALEMIS

12-23-06, 09:24 PM

I live in Terre Haute and cannot get guide information for WICD-DT on my Dish Vip 622. My guide information only displays "Digital Service". I have talked to several layers of Dish support without much success. Can anyone in the Terre Haute area receive guide info for WICD-DT?

IndyJeff

12-25-06, 04:25 PM

Check post #3483...I fixed the problem. I did try your suggestion before though. Thank you for the reply...I appreciate all the help around here.

Good news! Well, except for the fact that TVs now need firmware updates. Progress....

Tom Weber

12-27-06, 05:43 PM

MAX HD

12-27-06, 11:38 PM

Looks like I need to reboot something here - getting some occasional blockiness on WISH-HD, but I'm not seeing it on LWS or radar, so I'm assuming it's the WISH-HD encoder. I'll try and do it before Prime Time, but while fewer viewers are affected.

BTW, I've had to add audio to the radar channel, in order to meet Emergency Alert guidelines. I'll keep it silent, however, except for when the alerts are actually occurring. Then you'll hear the "duck quacks" and any pertinent audio (if any). We actually are keeping the radar channel, and we're running extra children's programming on LWS in order to do that!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Now you tell me!!Just kidding.Don't know if the is contributing or not.
Been fighting a blocky signal on 9 for the last three days on a new install.But,Im seeing it on the subs also.Actually,it's ok on the RCA ATSC-11 with very few drops,but the Dish 622 is a disaster-constant pixellation.Bout ready to pull my hair out on this one.

Analogs on VHF have some sort of interference-large sparkle bands-terrible on low band,but better on highband the higher the channel.Here's a pic of ch8.13 is almost pristine.

I told my client if we can't cure ch9,we can work on 31 out of Cincy for the Super Bowl.It comes in fairly well with an 8-bay in the attic(35ft AGL) shooting through a brick gable-end at 54mi.All the antenna installers in this town are now out of the business,and the SAT installers won't touch OTA here.Now I know why!

greg b

TVI
http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/TVI

Tersanyus

12-28-06, 10:01 AM

Looks like I need to reboot something here - getting some occasional blockiness on WISH-HD, but I'm not seeing it on LWS or radar, so I'm assuming it's the WISH-HD encoder. I'll try and do it before Prime Time, but while fewer viewers are affected.

I noticed it last night too. I'm just glad that you notice it too Tom. Seemed at first when we told you of this problem you really didn't see it.

The question is now, why does this seem to happen every few months?

--Mike

viks

12-28-06, 10:30 AM

Hello Guys

Sorry for posting noobie question.

I just got my HDTV.I live west side of Indianapolis.
I would like to know what are the options for me to get free HDTV.
I was reading different threads in this forum.

Let me tell you what I understood.

1. I can get some local HD channels free over the air. I do have tuner in my HDTV, so I think I just have to buy an antenna. Any recommendation for good antenna ?? Basically I would like to which brand/model is good for indianapolis ? If you have any experience with particular model.

2. I have basic cable from comcast. Can I get any HD channels without paying for HD package and setup box?? If yes, How many HD channels can I get free from comcast??

Please help me out here ? I would love to setup everything before sunday afternoon, so I can watch Colts on my HDTV. :D
Thanks

jrcorwin

12-28-06, 11:13 AM

I noticed it last night too. I'm just glad that you notice it too Tom. Seemed at first when we told you of this problem you really didn't see it.

The question is now, why does this seem to happen every few months?

--Mike
I didn't notice this, but I didn't watch mush of WISH last night....my audio from there was much, much louder than any other network. I don't know why...

Les Auber

12-28-06, 11:26 AM

viks,
If your TV has an ATSC tuner you should be able to get the Indy locals on the west side. It shouldn't take anything special antenna wise though others will likely have good suggestions. You might read back a few pages. I think antenna suggestions was covered recently. I'm using a 2 bay bowtie RS antenna that I think is now discontinued. It is intended for indoor use and a little marginal on the west side.

I don't know anything about comcast but with brighthouse I get the same Indy locals as the antenna plus a couple without doing anything beyond a channel scan. Your TV will need to have a QAM tuner. If so hooking it up and trying is worth the shot if you already have cable.

Tom Weber

12-28-06, 12:03 PM

I'm busy hooking up Emergency Alert boxes to the 2 other WISH-DT channels, but then I'll re-arranging things to add some audio devices - including a 5.1 channel AGC unit. So audio should be better (and maybe always in 5.1 ?) in a couple of weeks.

The last time I rebooted things, others were seeing problems and I was not. But this time I did notice problems in my office. Probably indicates a problem of a different origin, tho with a similar symptom?

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS / etc.

viks

12-28-06, 07:16 PM

Hi guys

I just hooked up my HDTV with antenna.
I am getting lots of channels but problem is that some of the channels are not full screen.

I dont know if this the problem with my TV or receptions.

I am able to play PS3 games very well. but TV channels are behaving wierd.

some channels are very good and some images are cut from sides.

Please help me out here. :confused:

Never mind, I found the reason. Whenever there is any non HD content broadcasted in HD format. It will not be full screen.

Am I right ??

MAX HD

12-28-06, 07:39 PM

Now you tell me!!Just kidding.Don't know if the is contributing or not.
Been fighting a blocky signal on 9 for the last three days on a new install.But,Im seeing it on the subs also.Actually,it's ok on the RCA ATSC-11 with very few drops,but the Dish 622 is a disaster-constant pixellation.Bout ready to pull my hair out on this one.

Analogs on VHF have some sort of interference-large sparkle bands-terrible on low band,but better on highband the higher the channel.Here's a pic of ch8.13 is almost pristine.

I told my client if we can't cure ch9,we can work on 31 out of Cincy for the Super Bowl.It comes in fairly well with an 8-bay in the attic(35ft AGL) shooting through a brick gable-end at 54mi.All the antenna installers in this town are now out of the business,and the SAT installers won't touch OTA here.Now I know why!

greg b

TVI
http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/TVI

Just a follow up to this;The Dish 622 DVR has a problem with Ch9,or just an unfriendly handshake with WISH-TV,I'm not sure which.I called a local Dish installer and they've installed 3 622's and they all have a problem with WISH DT-9.Anyone in central Indiana using a 622 that picks up DT-9 over the air and not have a problem?

I think I'll post to the Champaign-Urbana thread also,to see if any 622 users are having a problem with WILL-DT9.

Les Auber

12-28-06, 08:16 PM

viks,
You are right. Non-HD content shot in 4:3 will not be full screen on a 16:9 aspect ratio HDTV. Opinions vary on this but I personally have never seen a stretch or stretch/zoom on this content so that it is full screen come out visually satisfying. Things just don't look right when they're shortened and fattened out of proportion.

If you want to experiment your TV very likely has aspect ratio controls that will let you fit non-HD content to the screen.

Tom Weber

12-29-06, 02:09 PM

I have an inquiry in to Dish Network's "Locals Engineering" department, they'll call me back.

They've called back already. the 622 has a known issue with picking up -some- (lucky us) HD channels via over-the-air. WISH is not the only station, Indy is not the only market affected. Time-to-repair not known. Person I talked to did not know whether enough info had been gathered to know whether the affected stations' equipment, channel assignment, or any other factor is a common thread.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS / etc.

MAX HD

12-29-06, 07:20 PM