Any word on CW HD or CBS HD for DirecTV?

Any word on CW HD or CBS HD for DirecTV?


Here is a link from DBS Talk about LIN, WISH's parent company:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=115389&highlight=LIN

The news is not good.

As far as CW I would expect when they launch the new satellitte this spring that would get added.

Any word on CW HD or CBS HD for DirecTV?
Won't happen until DirecTV and Lin Broadcasting, the company that owns the CBS affiliates in Indianapolis, Lafayette, Terre Haute, and Fort Wayne, come to terms. Start writing letters to DirecTV and Lin politely expressing your displeasure with this situation and then start writing letters to the local advertisers on those stations. Tell them that you are taking a pass on watching programs on those stations because you can't get them in HD from your satellite provider.

Here is a question for anyone who might know??

Over the past few days even a week I've been able to "get" WFXW-DT on 39.3. However tonight when scrolling through channels it showed up on 38.1

Any explanation?? I'm not complaining, atleast I am able to watch DT

Here is a question for anyone who might know??

Over the past few days even a week I've been able to "get" WFXW-DT on 39.3. However tonight when scrolling through channels it showed up on 38.1

Any explanation?? I'm not complaining, atleast I am able to watch DT

If WFXW-DT is sending the correct Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) http://www.psip.org/ and http://www.psip.org/psip_reasons.html and your DTV receiver is decoding this information correctly, then your receiver SHOULD indicate that WFXW-DT is channel 38.1. According to the FCC, this is the way ALL stations should be operating. Because some analog stations have been branding their analog channel number for close to 60 years now, their DTV signal, regardless of what true RF channel it's transmitted on, will continue to be known by their analog channel number.

With this in mind, WTWO (2), even though their digital signal is actually transmitted on UHF channel 36, will continue to be known and labeled via the PSIP (through your receiver) as 2.1. WFXW (38) (WFXW-DT-39) will be known and labeled as 38.1. And WTHI (10), with their current DTV signal on UHF channel 24, will switch their DTV signal back to VHF channel 10 by or prior to Feb. 18, 2009 (whenever it officially kills the channel 10 analog signal) and will be known and labeled as 10.1.

Steve

WISH-DT (WISH-HD, LWS, and Radar) will be off the air in a couple of spurts this afternoon as we install a backup exciter (part of the transmitter). This will be between 1:30 pm and 5 pm.

We worked on the WISH analog transmitter last night overnight, and we're tackling the digital side today before the manufacturer's expert leaves town.

Also, the units arrived back here from the other firm (discussed a day or two ago), so cross your fingers that we'll also fix the (mostly) audio dropouts this afternoon as well.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Yes, it appears that we have cured the problem that we believe has been responsible for the audio burps on WISH-HD.

Let me know if you're still having the problem. I'll also monitor at home and the office.

Regards to all, and thanks for your patience,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I just wanted to say this is a great thread. Thanks to all

Looks like WFXW-DT is making the switch to HD. The station is broadcasting in 720P tonight.

Yippeee!!!!

Looks like WFXW-DT is making the switch to HD. The station is broadcasting in 720P tonight.

Yippeee!!!!


Yeah caught the same thing while flipping thru the channels. Of course then I lost the signal anyway. :rolleyes: Yet I was picking up WAVE out of Louisville.

For those that don't know, I live 9 miles north of Terre Haute, Indiana.

Hmmm. We're still getting complaints about audio dropouts. I think I'm still hearing them at home. Is everyone here too polite to say that this emperor has no clothes?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Hmmm. We're still getting complaints about audio dropouts. I think I'm still hearing them at home. Is everyone here too polite to say that this emperor has no clothes?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom...Yes, I got several audio drop-outs during "price is right" today.
They seemed to last about 5-10 seconds.

Thanks for your concern,

These dropouts appear to vary widely according to set or set-top-box manufacturer. What equipment are you using for reception?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

I'm not home during the day much to check on the audio dropouts generally, but the time I notice them, as I mentioned in a post earlier this week is always during NFL games on Sundays. The equipment that I use is an HD DVR provided by Insight cable (now Comcast here in West Lafayette) and the model is the Motorola DCT6412 III.

I hope that helps you in your quest for the dropouts! Thanks a lot for your responses on this board!

Tom,

I don't remember any dropouts last night during CSI but shortly after 10 p.m. I do remember a couple dropouts within the first half hour of Without A Trace, via Bright House through their digital receiver/DVR.

Steve

Looks like WFXW-DT is making the switch to HD. The station is broadcasting in 720P tonight.

Yippeee!!!!
Time Warner Cable just added WFXWHD on channel 208 as well.

Quick question: Does WTIU reduce their digital signal power on certain days? I got all three digital channels last night and on some previous nights, but, Wednesday night and tonight, no digital. I consistently get the analog channel, though, which makes no sense because if you receive the analog, you should get the digital signal. I live in NW Greene County approximately 37 miles from the transmitter. I've emailed the station twice with no response, so I thought I would try here.
By the way, this is a great thread and I've learned a lot from all of you. Thanks.

These dropouts appear to vary widely according to set or set-top-box manufacturer. What equipment are you using for reception?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,
I have several OTA tuner's...If I remember right, I was watching "price is right" while surfing.... so I was using a MyHD PC card at the time. The next time I have these, I'll switch to the others to see if they also have the problem.

Chris

WFXW has no Audio today.

Nice clear picture but no sound!!

1 week to get kinks work out

Hmmm. We're still getting complaints about audio dropouts. I think I'm still hearing them at home. Is everyone here too polite to say that this emperor has no clothes?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I am still hearing them also. Noticed them last night during Numbers and Garth Brooks. I have a DirecTV HR-20. My HR-10 TIVO does not seem to get the audio drops.

WFXW has no Audio today.

Nice clear picture but no sound!!

1 week to get kinks work out

Yeah, I noticed WFXWHD on Time Warner Cable in Terre Haute today, on channel 708, and it has no audio. :(

These dropouts appear to vary widely according to set or set-top-box manufacturer. What equipment are you using for reception?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I heard a couple of audio drops on Letterman last night. Dish ViP 622 OTA.

Jeff

These dropouts appear to vary widely according to set or set-top-box manufacturer. What equipment are you using for reception?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

During the UConn/IU game I noticed one audio dropout during each half. Of greater concern was the constant poor focus of the camera (it would go out of focus and then return to focus) the entire game. I suspect this was an issue with the national feed and not the local transmission?

I receive my WISH signal via OTA routed into a Dish 722 box.

I couldn't care less about the audio dropouts, it's the stuttery video that drives me nuts. It seems to only happen during live sporting events. Like today during the IU game, late in the second half for about 5 minutes it was constantly freezing up, skipping 5-10 seconds, and then coming back. The audio would sometimes drop out but most of the time stayed on during the video freezes. Then it would go to commercials, and everything was perfect. :mad:

I have Comcast with the Motorola DCT 6412 III.

During the UConn/IU game I noticed one audio dropout during each half. Of greater concern was the constant poor focus of the camera (it would go out of focus and then return to focus) the entire game. I suspect this was an issue with the national feed and not the local transmission?

I receive my WISH signal via OTA routed into a Dish 722 box.

There were lots of focus problems and pixilation problems on the Atlanta CBS station as well, so it must have been originating at the source.

Quick question: Does WTIU reduce their digital signal power on certain days? I got all three digital channels last night and on some previous nights, but, Wednesday night and tonight, no digital. I consistently get the analog channel, though, which makes no sense because if you receive the analog, you should get the digital signal. I live in NW Greene County approximately 37 miles from the transmitter. I've emailed the station twice with no response, so I thought I would try here.
By the way, this is a great thread and I've learned a lot from all of you. Thanks.

Welcome to AVS Forum.

Under normal broadcasting conditions, TV stations (analog and digital) do not change their output power. The FCC expects a station to maintain its licensed ERP (Effective Radiated Power) 24/7. WTIU-DT-14 (30.1, 30.2, 30.3) is licensed to operate with 224kW @ 725 feet. Both WTIU-DT and WTIU-30 operate with directional antennas, meaning that certain directions do not receive the full signal strength. But it appears that your location should receive plenty of signal for dependable reception.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=66536

Without talking to an engineer at the station or reviewing their transmitter logs (required by the FCC), it's anyone's guess as to whether they might have powered-down the transmitter for some technical maintenance, etc. Another possibility for lost reception at your location, at least from time to time, could be related to interference from other stations on the same channel which is usually the result of atmospheric (troposphere) changes. Until the analog stations sign off, WFIE-14, Evansville could interfere with WTIU-DT's signal from time to time. The next time you lose WTIU-DT, tune to analog channel 14 and see if you can see any trace of WFIE-14. If you do, then the WFIE analog signal is probably just strong enough to override the digital signal from WTIU-DT, or the mix of WFIE-14 and WTIU-DT-14 is enough to confuse your receiver so that it is unable to decode the digital information. I live on the north side of Indy, and I even see these two stations fighting each other on occasion.

Also, the more directional your antenna is the better, but then the aim (azimuth reading) of your antenna becomes more important, too. With the very crowded airwaves right now (digital plus analog), just rotating your antenna a degree or two, one way or the other, can make a HUGE difference in your reception. With a good directional antenna, on certain occasions, between analog and digital, it is possible to see 2, 3, 4, 5 or more different stations as your antenna rotates a full 360 degrees.

See the post above from RWB on 1/25/08 where he commented that he wasn't able to receive low-power WFXW-DT, Terre Haute (he lives 9 miles north of T.H.) that evening, but at the same time he was receiving WAVE-DT-47 (3.1) all the way from Louisville. Most likely, tropospheric conditions that evening were enhancing the WAVE-DT signal from Louisville (tower at Floyds Knobs, IN) while another regional station on channel 39 (digital or analog) was stomping on the weak signal from WFXW-DT-39 (38.1), approximately 18 miles away from its tower just south of Farmersburg, IN.

Sorry for the rambling, but without seeing your setup, knowing the sensitivity of your digital receiver (some receivers are much better than others) and other factors, it's really difficult to point to one issue. Maybe something I've mentioned will help.

Steve

Goldrich,
Thank you for that very detailed reply about my WTIU issues. I appreciate knowing that power isn't being reduce on a regular basis. Actually, yesterday afternoon I changed the location of my indoor antenna in the attic and it worked like a charm. I'm getting a consistent 82% power from the new location whereas before it was sporadic in the low 30s and 40s, and it would often go to zero.
I plan to purchase an outdoor antenna this spring in hopes of getting at least the ABC station in Indy, since we will soon have the other three networks broadcasting in HD (CBS, Fox, just this week and NBC, this summer). Being 73 miles from the tower, I'm probably looking at a 50/50 shot. I'm considering the CM 4228A. Any of you think I would be more successful with another antenna? I've learned that this whole HD OTA stuff is really about experimenting and this site is great.

[QUOTE=jibber;12934284]Quick question: Does WTIU reduce their digital signal power on certain days? QUOTE]

Unless experiencing a technical difficuly adversely affecting their transmission system, all digital t.v. stations must maintain their transmitting power within 95% and 105% of their FCC authorization. Here's their rule (ATSC A/64, 4.1.5):

"Power specification and measurement principles

Background: The present NTSC service allows a power variation ranging between 80% and 110% of authorized power. These values correspond to -1.0 dB and +0.4 dB respectively. Because of the so-called “cliff effect” at the fringes of the service coverage area for a digital DTV signal, the allowable lower power value will have a direct effect on the DTV threshold. A reduction of 1.0 dB in transmitted power will change the DTV threshold of 15 dB (which has been determined to cause a 3 x 10-6 bit error rate which corresponds to 1.9 x 10-4 packet error rate) to 16 dB, or for UHF assignments approximately a one mile reduction in coverage distance from the transmitter.

Therefore, the average power of the DTV transmitted signal should be specified and measured as follows:

The lower allowed power value should be 95% of authorized power and the upper allowed power value should be 105% of authorized power.

A conventional full-wave rectifier type of power meter will register approximately 1 dB lower than the true power on “white” noise. It has not been determined what the reading will be when measuring DTV power. It is suggested that DTV stations use a calorimeter type true power measurement method to re-calibrate the rectifier type of power meter if used. The power reading should have an uncertainty no worse than 5%, and preferably better, in order to have minimum impact on DTV coverage."

I live about 30 miles away from the wfxw tower (southwest). I have a new samsung 50 inch television, and a hd-antenna from radio shack. I can pick up wthi-hd just fine, i can even pick up the digital feed from wtwo...but I can't get wfxw-hd. i am running through my hi-def dishnet receiver. i've moved my antenna several times, and am getting nothing. I can't even figure out how to check my strength for 38.1

any help will be greatly appreciated!!!!

Of note, on WTWO's broadcast this week they mentioned they are working on broadcasting HD in May of 08. We'll see how that pans out.

On a similar note for those receiving the Haute signals. Has anyone seen anything on WFXW broadcast widescreen? I know not everything is expected to be, but I haven't seen any WS yet. I guess we'll know by the Super Bowl for sure.

Of note, on WTWO's broadcast this week they mentioned they are working on broadcasting HD in May of 08. We'll see how that pans out.

On a similar note for those receiving the Haute signals. Has anyone seen anything on WFXW broadcast widescreen? I know not everything is expected to be, but I haven't seen any WS yet. I guess we'll know by the Super Bowl for sure.

Tonight the Sarah Connor Chronicles should be in 720p, I'm pretty sure it airs in HD.

I checked the WTWO forums and apparently the 'no audio' issue is a Time Warner Cable problem.

WFXW's audio problem is not a TW cable issue. I receive the DT signal OTA and did not have audio all weekend. Hopefully, they will figure this out today. Also, I'm interested in whether the HD will be passed in 4:3 or 16:9 format as earlier questioned.

I live about 30 miles away from the wfxw tower (southwest). I have a new samsung 50 inch television, and a hd-antenna from radio shack. I can pick up wthi-hd just fine, i can even pick up the digital feed from wtwo...but I can't get wfxw-hd. i am running through my hi-def dishnet receiver. i've moved my antenna several times, and am getting nothing. I can't even figure out how to check my strength for 38.1

any help will be greatly appreciated!!!!

Per your description, do you live between Robinson and Lawrenceville, IL? If so, and until WFXW-DT goes full-power, you might have some success with WTVW-DT-28 (7.1), Evansville. As of a few months ago, this Fox station (also owned by Nexstar) is now 1000kW and passing Fox-HD.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT562351.html

Steve

I live in Robinson. When I run my set local channels on the receiver, only the ones that work show me anything. So I can't tell what kind of signal I'm getting from wfxw, or the one in Evansville, or anything else. I read posts where people say that they found this channel here or there, do these people just scan the system everyday, or is there an easier way to check for channels?

WFXW's audio problem is not a TW cable issue. I receive the DT signal OTA and did not have audio all weekend. Hopefully, they will figure this out today. Also, I'm interested in whether the HD will be passed in 4:3 or 16:9 format as earlier questioned.

jibber:

According to the WTWO GM, it is TW Cable's issue. I found this forum post:

http://mywabashvalley.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=368

I hope we don't get into a blaming game and not end up getting audio on the channel.

jibber:

According to the WTWO GM, it is TW Cable's issue. I found this forum post:

http://mywabashvalley.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=368

I hope we don't get into a blaming game and not end up getting audio on the channel.

Sounds like Duane needs to check on things before he speaks. I also have NO audio for DT38. I unplugged my box and rescanned just in case. Nope, got audio on WTHI, WTWO, the 3 PBS stations, the ION stations, and WICD out of Champaign Illinois. Oh and we're talking OTA and not cable.

jibber:

According to the WTWO GM, it is TW Cable's issue. I found this forum post:

http://mywabashvalley.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=368

I hope we don't get into a blaming game and not end up getting audio on the channel.

I'm not blaming anyone, just pointing out that OTA broadcasting from WFXW-DT over the weekend was without audio. So, I don't know how the cable feed would be affecting that. I get HD through OTA means. Please educate me, if I'm wrong.

Thanks.

I'm not blaming anyone, just pointing out that OTA broadcasting from WFXW-DT over the weekend was without audio. So, I don't know how the cable feed would be affecting that. I get HD through OTA means. Please educate me, if I'm wrong.

Thanks.

Jib, I think you're reading Smitty wrong. He's not blaming you for anything. Rather he hopes that whoever is responsible for the glitch takes care of it instead of blaming each other. TWO blames cable so they do nothing about it. Time Warner blames TWO so they do nothing about it. Conclussion nothing gets done......

I don't know what was causing the Audio issue with WFXW-DT, however as of right now, I'm receiving sound.

Over the weekend my parents house they had no audio on a Fox station out of Springfield, IL... so I don't think this was an isolated issue.

Problem appear resolved for now!!

Jib, I think you're reading Smitty wrong. He's not blaming you for anything. Rather he hopes that whoever is responsible for the glitch takes care of it instead of blaming each other. TWO blames cable so they do nothing about it. Time Warner blames TWO so they do nothing about it. Conclussion nothing gets done......

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant, thanks for clarifying it RWB :)

Anyways, I checked today at lunch and my WFXWHD on TWC has sound. Hopefully it stays that way! We should be able to test the HD tonight.

Here is the response I got from Bruce Yowell, WTWO engineer:


We did have a problem here and master didn't know about it. It is now fixed and you should have good audio.

Bruce

Smitty 24, I did not think you were blaming me. I'm sorry that I came across in that manner. That was not my intent in my reply to you.
Thank you.

We are continuing to make adjustments in an effort to fix the audio dropouts on WISH-HD. We have made several already today. Let me know if you are still experiencing problems.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

WFXW-HD is not broadcasting the Fox HD signal yet. The Sarah Connor Chronicles is on right now and at the beginning displays the "HDTV by DirecTV" sponsorship ad, and the channel is still showing the SD signal version.

We are continuing to make adjustments in an effort to fix the audio dropouts on WISH-HD. We have made several already today. Let me know if you are still experiencing problems.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom, I noticed at least two dropouts as the President was walking down the aisle before the State of the Union. Then two more as he was at the podium before his introduction was over. And I really haven't noticed any during the actual speach. Watching via Insight / Comcast QAM on a Samsung LN-T4065, sound run out through optical to an old Aiwa receiver.

WFXW-HD is not broadcasting the Fox HD signal yet. The Sarah Connor Chronicles is on right now and at the beginning displays the "HDTV by DirecTV" sponsorship ad, and the channel is still showing the SD signal version.

Yep, I was disappointed myself when the Terminator show came on. I expected the State of the Union to be in SD on FOX, but the 8pm show was supposed to be in HD. This is definetly a local issue since the sponsorship noted the HD broadcast, as you said Smitty. Wonder if they will fix that this week. Less than six days to the Superbowl to get it right. At least the audio is back, and actually quite good.

Actually, Fox carried the State of the Union in HD too.

Tom, I noticed at least two dropouts as the President was walking down the aisle before the State of the Union. Then two more as he was at the podium before his introduction was over. And I really haven't noticed any during the actual speach. Watching via Insight / Comcast QAM on a Samsung LN-T4065, sound run out through optical to an old Aiwa receiver.

perryw,

Is picture affected during these "dropouts"?

Maybe on rare occasion, but the audio dropout is far more prevalent. I heard some too, but it's good to have independent verification.

We'll look for more culprits....

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Hey jibber:

You posted that you talked to WTWO Engineer, Bruce Yowell. Can you contact him again about WFXWHD? They aren't displaying the HD signal from Fox, only the SD signal. Thanks!

I hope we aren't stuck with the SD version on the HD channel for the Super Bowl.

Hey jibber:

You posted that you talked to WTWO Engineer, Bruce Yowell. Can you contact him again about WFXWHD? They aren't displaying the HD signal from Fox, only the SD signal. Thanks!

I hope we aren't stuck with the SD version on the HD channel for the Super Bowl.

Okay, here is the email response that I got from Bruce (WTWO engineer) just a few minutes ago:


'I just found out we have a problem getting it to switch and we are working on it. I think the superbowl will be in 16:9. Sorry for the problem.

Bruce'

Just an FYI, I haven't actually spoken to Bruce, we've exchanged a few emails. He is superb in the speed in which he replies, by the way. 22 minutes after I emailed him today, he responded.

Okay, here is the email response that I got from Bruce (WTWO engineer) just a few minutes ago:


'I just found out we have a problem getting it to switch and we are working on it. I think the superbowl will be in 16:9. Sorry for the problem.

Bruce'

Just an FYI, I haven't actually spoken to Bruce, we've exchanged a few emails. He is superb in the speed in which he replies, by the way. 22 minutes after I emailed him today, he responded.

Hmm, well I hope he means that the super bowl will be in 720p, 16x9 and not 480p 16x9 widescreen (similar to like it is now). Thanks for checking with him.

Once again the info guide on my box does say HD, but the clarity is just not there when compared to WTHI's picture. And I STILL have not seen anything broadcast at 1:78. It's all been 4:3.

if you email Bruce again...ask him why I can't get the wfxw-hd signal in Robinson even though I can get wtwo. It's still not working and I still would appreciate any advice anyone would have to offer. I tried getting the Evansville feed last night, but nothing came up.

if you email Bruce again...ask him why I can't get the wfxw-hd signal in Robinson even though I can get wtwo. It's still not working and I still would appreciate any advice anyone would have to offer. I tried getting the Evansville feed last night, but nothing came up.

Gotitans, I would say the low power for FXW is going to make things touch and go and there aren't really any options at this time. I'm using a Channel Master 4228 with the preamp and can get the Bloomington channels consistently which are alot further than Fox's signal.

Quick update on WFXW "HD":

American Idol on the network is the SD version. Just like the Terminator show last night.

Not looking promising for the Super Bowl. :(

Quick update on WFXW "HD":

American Idol on the network is the SD version. Just like the Terminator show last night.

Not looking promising for the Super Bowl. :(


Perhaps emailing in numbers will help.

http://mywabashvalley.com/content/programming

Scroll down to the email link to the Chief Engineer for WTWO and you will get to Bruce.

RWB, are you receiving the Indy stations from your location 'Wabash Valley, In', with your CM 4228?

I'm excited that WFXW and WTWO are moving to the HD era, however one giant complaint with the upcoming SuperBowl only 5 days away.

If you're gonna publicize having the SB in HD, wouldn't you be testing the equipment well before 1 week prior to get all the bugs worked out. I'm trying to watch American Idol tonight (granted the 40+ MPH winds aren't helping) But it is so choppy, and still in 4:3 format.

I'll be in Rosedale for the annual family SuperBowl party and being able to watch the game in HD will only be a bonus. As I'm leaving my house where I can pick up the DT signal, and going somewhere where it is marginal at best.

I guess we'll see and I hope I'm surprised!!!

This whole WISH-TV/LIN/DirecTV crap is absolutely ridiculous.

Perhaps emailing in numbers will help.

http://mywabashvalley.com/content/programming

Scroll down to the email link to the Chief Engineer for WTWO and you will get to Bruce.

RWB, are you receiving the Indy stations from your location 'Wabash Valley, In', with your CM 4228?


I put Wabash Valley in my bio just as a generic location. I actually live 9 miles north/west of Terre Haute and 3 miles south of Clinton. Close to the Sheperdsville area but still a little north.

I'm lucky in the fact I do live on a slightly higher elevation than Clinton or Terre Haute. I have my antenna on my back deck which makes it convenient to test some things. However it is on the west side of my house so it actually blocks the view for Indy channels.

During the summer months I can usually pull in the majority of all Indy stations around 5p to 6pm in the evenings. During the winter it is pretty hit and miss. I pickup CW4 a couple times each week (side note, what happened to the Tube network?) the ION/Worship Qubo, Jesus tv stations most of the time. Seems like channel 6 (25-1) tends to be the easiest of Indy's main stations to get from where I'm located. I live in the woods so maybe the trees can bounce the signal somehow.

The PBS Bloomington channels have always come in easy like WTHI and TWO. ABC 15-1 out of Champaign is another channel that I've never had to struggle to get. The other Illinois channels are a little more of a bear especially those in Decatur IL. and are a rarity on normal days without the atmosphere helping out.

Unlike some of our friends here who have fantastic equipment to hunt for signals the CM4228 with the preamp is about as good as you're going to find for the average person (IMHO). During the summer months it is not uncommon for me to pickup stations out of Dayton and Cincinatti Ohio. Louisville KY seems to be a very easy reach and they must really have some power or their antennas are located in a prime area.

SIDE NOTE: Attention THAUTE, Riley, Marshall, Clinton, ETC;I've thought about possibly trying to get a group together for an HD tv/Home Theater/ meet sometime since it seems there are a number of members here near or around the Terre Haute area. Anyone interested at least in the possibility of this?

Anybody else not getting it at all since last night's storm. I'm in the Castleton area. Was coming in fine yesterday. Just checking.

Anybody else not getting it at all since last night's storm. I'm in the Castleton area. Was coming in fine yesterday. Just checking.

Around 8:30 this morning I was receiving it just fine OTA near Carmel. I'm currently not home so I can't check it at the moment.

Steve

At 3:24 PM, it is coming in at "eight bars" in Bloomington, IN.

Got WTTV-D back. I have two different type attic antennas. Switched them (direction wise) and it worked. I can't make sense of it. It's always been quirky. I can't wait till they get back on the WXIN tower next year.

This whole WISH-TV/LIN/DirecTV crap is absolutely ridiculous.

I don't follow the D*** problems, but those of us w/ E*** don't get any locals in HD off their satellites.

Perhaps emailing in numbers will help.

http://mywabashvalley.com/content/programming

Scroll down to the email link to the Chief Engineer for WTWO and you will get to Bruce.

RWB, are you receiving the Indy stations from your location 'Wabash Valley, In', with your CM 4228?

I emailed Bruce on the 29th about the problem and never got a reply. Last night WFXW was still broadcasting the standard-def signal during Idol. HD for the Super Bowl at this point isn't looking good.

Watching "R U Smarter than a 5th Grader" on WFXW-DT tonight. It is being broadcasting in a crisp 720p...but is 4:3

All the commercials are 16:9 and the intro to the show was shown in 16:9.

I fully trust that the SB will be ready to go in 16:9 (720p)

***Edit.. Don't Forget the Lyrics is in 16:9. Looks Great (don't like the show and aint gonna watch it though!!)

Watching "R U Smarter than a 5th Grader" on WFXW-DT tonight. It is being broadcasting in a crisp 720p...but is 4:3

All the commercials are 16:9 and the intro to the show was shown in 16:9.

I fully trust that the SB will be ready to go in 16:9 (720p)

***Edit.. Don't Forget the Lyrics is in 16:9. Looks Great (don't like the show and aint gonna watch it though!!)

Phew...thanks for the update! I just got home and couldn't check the prime time shows tonight. Sounds like they got it working just in time.

I checked Fox's web site and Zap 2 It's website and they did not indicate that either show broadcast on Fox Thursday night was in High Definition. It may have been clearer than before, but the source wasn't in HD. Both shows tonight, Bones and House, are to be broadcast in HD. Tonight is the real test. A tech from WTWO apologized for the audio problem last weekend on their web site. It wasn't a cable issue. That's a dead horse anyway since they fixed the problem.
RWB, thanks for your reply about the antenna.
Smitty24, I don't know why Bruce didn't reply to you. He replied to me in prompt fashion each of the three times I emailed him.

I put Wabash Valley in my bio just as a generic location. I actually live 9 miles north/west of Terre Haute and 3 miles south of Clinton. Close to the Sheperdsville area but still a little north.I'm lucky in the fact I do live on a slightly higher elevation than Clinton or Terre Haute. I have my antenna on my back deck which makes it convenient to test some things. However it is on the west side of my house so it actually blocks the view for Indy channels. During the summer months I can usually pull in the majority of all Indy stations around 5p to 6pm in the evenings. During the winter it is pretty hit and miss. I pickup CW4 a couple times each week (side note, what happened to the Tube network?) the ION/Worship Qubo, Jesus tv stations most of the time. Seems like channel 6 (25-1) tends to be the easiest of Indy's main stations to get from where I'm located. I live in the woods so maybe the trees can bounce the signal somehow.The PBS Bloomington channels have always come in easy like WTHI and TWO. ABC 15-1 out of Champaign is another channel that I've never had to struggle to get. The other Illinois channels are a little more of a bear especially those in Decatur IL. and are a rarity on normal days without the atmosphere helping out.Unlike some of our friends here who have fantastic equipment to hunt for signals the CM4228 with the preamp is about as good as you're going to find for the average person (IMHO). During the summer months it is not uncommon for me to pickup stations out of Dayton and Cincinatti Ohio. Louisville KY* seems to be a very easy reach and they must really have some power or their antennas are located in a prime area.SIDE NOTE: Attention THAUTE, Riley, Marshall, Clinton, ETC;I've thought about possibly trying to get a group together for an HD tv/Home Theater/ meet sometime since it seems there are a number of members here near or around the Terre Haute area. Anyone interested at least in the possibility of this?

Hi, i live in terre haute and would enjoy a meeting with people in this area. I have directv hd dvr with a small antenna hookup and only get wthi ota hd. O have a 42 in plasma and a front projector on a 85 in sreen.
tim

I have no explanation for why the websites wouldn't show these shows in HD. But i definately know the diff. from 720p HD and a good looking SD signal. Don't forget the lyrics was deff. in HD. The picture was as crisp and color-rich as NFL games on CBS.

I'll check tonight to see what happens w/ primetime shows, but Yes I did see them in HD on Thursday

Just to let you all know, we're continuing to investigate the occasional disruptions seen on WISH-HD. As we become more familiar with this piece of test equipment, we are still finding areas to investigate further.

We appreciate your continued patience, strained tho it may be.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Hello,

Please forgive the slightly off-topic post, but I'm wondering what DVR box Comcast in Indianapolis is currently installing, and how whatever they install now compares to the 6412 box of a few years ago (which I thought was a horrible DVR to use with a lot of frustrating limitations).

Also, if anyone knows, if you have digital cable is it now 100% digital, or are the low channels still analog and prone to snow and interference? I remember hearing that Comcast was going to offer a 100% digital package years ago, but it hadn't come to Indy as of early 2006.

Thanks!

Jeff

Just to let you all know, we're continuing to investigate the occasional disruptions seen on WISH-HD. As we become more familiar with this piece of test equipment, we are still finding areas to investigate further.

We appreciate your continued patience, strained tho it may be.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Tom!

Hello,

Please forgive the slightly off-topic post, but I'm wondering what DVR box Comcast in Indianapolis is currently installing, and how whatever they install now compares to the 6412 box of a few years ago (which I thought was a horrible DVR to use with a lot of frustrating limitations).

Also, if anyone knows, if you have digital cable is it now 100% digital, or are the low channels still analog and prone to snow and interference? I remember hearing that Comcast was going to offer a 100% digital package years ago, but it hadn't come to Indy as of early 2006.

Thanks!

JeffI just had Brighthouse install their Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC. It has the Mystro software as opposed to the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD which I had earlier that had SARA. I find it a much better interface. Much closer to the Aptiva software I experienced while with TW in Milwaukee. As for all digital, I don't think so. At least Brighthouse is not. Their low channels are still analog.

Just to let you all know, we're continuing to investigate the occasional disruptions seen on WISH-HD. As we become more familiar with this piece of test equipment, we are still finding areas to investigate further.

We appreciate your continued patience, strained tho it may be.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Just FYI there were a few picture breakups on the basketball game Saturday afternoon and then later on golf.

Hi All,

I'm in the process of purchasing my first HDTV, the Samsung LN-T4069. I don't have cable, and would like to pickup all the local channels in HD from zip code 46221.

Should I purchase a indoor antenna like the http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/antennas/m/30895447/ or should I get a outdoor antenna? If out door which one and where can I purchase, and can I get a electrician to install it?

According to antennaweb, I need a Large Directional w/pre-amp if I want to pickup Marion which is 31 miles from my location.

Where can I purchase the best HDTV antenna that will allow me to get 100% signal strength from the following stations if thats even possible?

WTHR-DT
WRTV-DT
WXIN-DT
WISH-DT
WFYI-DT
WNDY-DT
WIPX-DT
WHMB-DT
WCLJ-DT


Thanks.

Matt
Indianapolis, In 46221

Hi All,

I'm in the process of purchasing my first HDTV, the Samsung LN-T4069. I don't have cable, and would like to pickup all the local channels in HD from zip code 46221.

Should I purchase a indoor antenna like the http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/antennas/m/30895447/ or should I get a outdoor antenna? If out door which one and where can I purchase, and can I get a electrician to install it?

According to antennaweb, I need a Large Directional w/pre-amp if I want to pickup Marion which is 31 miles from my location.

Where can I purchase the best HDTV antenna that will allow me to get 100% signal strength from the following stations if thats even possible?

WTHR-DT
WRTV-DT
WXIN-DT
WISH-DT
WFYI-DT
WNDY-DT
WIPX-DT
WHMB-DT
WCLJ-DT


Thanks.

Matt
Indianapolis, In 46221

This one should get everything you want. The indoor would probably have trouble with WNDY and WHMB because of downtown interference.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM4221A
100% signal strength on all stations is not only unnecessary, but nearly impossible.

I would go with an outdoor antenna. Almost any medium range model with a rotator would do. I have one from Radio Shack. The model VU-120, not sure if they have it anymore. It does a great job with getting all channels in the area, plus I can get Terre Haute at times on analog. I wouldn't use a pre-amp this close to Indy. You could easily overload your set with too much signal.

This one should get everything you want.
Maybe, maybe not. The referenced antenna is UHF-only. Two of the Indianapolis stations, WISH and WTHR, will be on VHF after next February, so any antenna purchased for HD needs to have some VHF coverage.

I went with the AntennaCraft AC9 http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AC9. I have it mounted the attic of a one story house in Brownsburg, about 10-12 miles from most of the transmitters. I get great digital and analog signals from all of the Indianapolis stations.

The original poster may have some trouble getting a Marion station from his location. That's quite a long haul and will require a high-gain antenna on a tall tower.

Just FYI there were a few picture breakups on the basketball game Saturday afternoon and then later on golf.

Same video issues with the golf tourney on Sunday. Good thing the Super Bowl was on Fox!

How do I install it? On the roof, or attach to chimney? What type of coax cable and splitters do I need? Can a electrician install it?

Thanks.

It it capable of picking up VHF 7 and up. Won't be a problem. Nor will WNDY. Not actually in Marion.

Maybe, maybe not. The referenced antenna is UHF-only. Two of the Indianapolis stations, WISH and WTHR, will be on VHF after next February, so any antenna purchased for HD needs to have some VHF coverage.

I went with the AntennaCraft AC9 http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AC9. I have it mounted the attic of a one story house in Brownsburg, about 10-12 miles from most of the transmitters. I get great digital and analog signals from all of the Indianapolis stations.

The original poster may have some trouble getting a Marion station from his location. That's quite a long haul and will require a high-gain antenna on a tall tower.

Hi, i live in terre haute and would enjoy a meeting with people in this area. I have directv hd dvr with a small antenna hookup and only get wthi ota hd. O have a 42 in plasma and a front projector on a 85 in sreen.
tim

Well Tim glad to hear you have an interest. I've had some contact with folks who are not affiliated with this forum who have shown some interest as well. We might be able to pull a meeting off after all since it doesn't have to be limited to just talking HD tv especially seeing you have a front projection unit.

True to their word FXW did indeed broadcast the SB in Hi Def and it looked good when the signal was steady. Alas it kept dropping out on me every few minutes so finally we had to go Analog.

True to their word FXW did indeed broadcast the SB in Hi Def and it looked good when the signal was steady. Alas it kept dropping out on me every few minutes so finally we had to go Analog.

I believe the weather had something to do with the signal dropping on WFXW-DT last night. After the rain and lightning ended, the signal was steady throughout the rest of the game, for us, anyway. Most of the second half was good and all of House was steady, too, in HD.

Cautiously optimistic I may have finally (!) nailed the culprit of the WISH-HD dropouts. Cross your fingers, but tell me if you see any problems.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I don't suppose WFXW was in Dolby Digital 5.1?

I don't suppose WFXW was in Dolby Digital 5.1?

I have no idea, but I seriously doubt it. Anyone out there have an audio system that would detect DD 5.1 in the TH area?

Can you nail getting it onto DirecTV?

I have no idea, but I seriously doubt it. Anyone out there have an audio system that would detect DD 5.1 in the TH area?

Yeah, they broadcasted the DD 5.1 signal.

Although I don't know whats going on with WFXW-HD tonight...Idol is on, should be in HD, but this time it looks like 480p widescreen quality. Strange!

Although I don't know whats going on with WFXW-HD tonight...Idol is on, should be in HD, but this time it looks like 480p widescreen quality. Strange!

Someone has already posted that issue on their web site's DTV forum. Hopefully, we will find out soon. My TV recognized that the signal was in 480i SD. The poster on the forum wondered if the weather was the issue. Maybe they've returned all the HD equipment to get a refund. :D Sorry, bad joke.

Anyone notice their signal fluctuation wildly today, or is it just me?

Strong and solid here (North of Bloomington, IN).

I watched the news from 5:45 - 6:45 without a problem. Near the same area, Unionville.

Anyone notice their signal fluctuation wildly today, or is it just me?

It's not just you. This morning their (WTHR) signal fluctuated between 69 and 73 on my Dish 722, but would intermittently go to zero (0) which, obviously, caused a complete loss of signal for 1-4 seconds at a time. I attributed this to the high winds, but apparently not?

For reference, I generally get the following signal strength numbers (+/- 3 or so): WTTV4 (74), WRTV6 (89), WFYI20 (71), WXIN59 (96).

FWIW, I also get around 85 with WISH8 (VHF)- I will note this is a marked improvement from the 72 or so I formerly received up until approximately 10 days ago. Perhaps they turned up their signal strength?

I just bought my first HDTV and am trying to decide what is the best avenue for receiving HD content. I’ve always used cable, was Insight now Comcast, here in Fishers. I’m leaning toward retaining standard cable and see what the QAM pick ups or possibly upgrading to digital cable. Since reading much of this post, it’s clear that many HD channels are available OTA. So as a secondary (or possible primary) source I’d like to add an antenna. Uverse isn’t available in my neighborhood and I’m not real fond satellite.

I have two lines of questions ones related to digital cable and the other related to OTA antennas. I hope I’m not too off topic for this thread, but if I go to digital cable, can I still pickup regular cable on my other TVs or will they each require some type of digital cable box?

As for on topic questions… I am trying to decide which antenna to get. My choices are some sort of small inconspicuous type to mount on top or side of the chimney. By this I mean something like the Winegard Sensor GS-2200/1100, the Radio Shack 15-2187, or Channel Master 3000A. My other choice could be to put multi bow tie or Yagi style antenna in the attic above the garage. By this I mean a CM4228, CM4221A, Winegard HD7080P, or CM3016.

The access to the attic above the upstairs bed room is only 20” square so I don’t think I can get an antenna of any reasonable size up there plus it wouldn’t be easy to adjust or ad an amp if needed. The garage attic isn’t ideal either since the 2nd story of the house is blocking the strongest channels to the west, but is unobstructed for the weaker channels to the north and south. My TV is going to be mounted above my fireplace so the inconspicuous outdoor antenna wouldn’t have far to go where as the garage attic will probably require at 60 or 80 feet of coax and possibly an amp. If I could manage to get an antenna in the attic above the bedrooms, it will be a one-time deal… set it and forget it.

So the million-dollar question is… do you think I would be better off with a lesser antenna mounted somewhere on my chimney or would a more sophisticated antenna hidden in the attic further away yield better results? I'd really like to hear what the local guys have to say about this and would appreciate your comment.

Thanks!

It's not just you. This morning their (WTHR) signal fluctuated between 69 and 73 on my Dish 722, but would intermittently go to zero (0) which, obviously, caused a complete loss of signal for 1-4 seconds at a time. I attributed this to the high winds, but apparently not?

For reference, I generally get the following signal strength numbers (+/- 3 or so): WTTV4 (74), WRTV6 (89), WFYI20 (71), WXIN59 (96).

FWIW, I also get around 85 with WISH8 (VHF)- I will note this is a marked improvement from the 72 or so I formerly received up until approximately 10 days ago. Perhaps they turned up their signal strength?

I wasn't watching closely, so I didn't notice fluctuation. I did see that for a bit the words spoken on Meet The Press were not in sync with the audio.

Cautiously optimistic I may have finally (!) nailed the culprit of the WISH-HD dropouts. Cross your fingers, but tell me if you see any problems.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Well, it's about halfway through the 2nd half of the IU/Ohio State game, and I haven't noticed any audio or video dropouts. I haven't noticed any in the last few days either on Letterman.

Wow...the WTWO tech folks must have sorted out all of their HD issues with WFXW...the NASCAR coverage today looks fantastic!

Wow...the WTWO tech folks must have sorted out all of their HD issues with WFXW...the NASCAR coverage today looks fantastic!

Watched the Budweiser Shootout last night on WXIN HD. I was very happy cause I had to watch the Super bowl in standard def, but finally got the antenna settings correct.

It was quite interesting listening to a Silicon Valley A/V expert, on a radio show speaking of how he never cared for racing until he first saw a Nascar HD broadcast. He is now an addicted fan.

So the million-dollar question is… do you think I would be better off with a lesser antenna mounted somewhere on my chimney or would a more sophisticated antenna hidden in the attic further away yield better results?

Great simple question, but unfortunately, there's not always a simple answer. Six years ago I tried setting up various antennas in my attic, but I could never find the sweet spot where I could receive all stations transmitting from the Indy antenna farm area. I believe the attic issue for me is that I'm too close to the towers (3 - 5.5 miles), causing overload and/or multipath. Meanwhile, I recently positioned an old VHF-only antenna in my dad's attic in Kokomo and I can receive all the Indy DTV stations (VHF and UHF) transmitting from the same Indy antenna farm area (36 - 38 miles) without any distribution amp or preamp.

A number of viewers in various TV markets around the country have done quite well with the CM 4228 (UHF only antenna), as it's a high gain UHF antenna and because of its design it usually does a fair to good job at receiving highband VHF channels (7-13) as well. As you may already know, WTHR-DT will be switching from ch. 46 to ch. 13 next February, so then there will be two local DTV stations on VHF channels. And sometime after Feb. 17, 2009, WIIH-17 (WISH and WNDY's low-power sister station) will begin transmitting a low-power DTV signal on ch. 8 (WIIH-LD), after WISH-8 signs off. So that will make 3 local DTVs on VHF.

Without using a rotor on your antenna, you might be able to position it just right so that in addition to the main stations transmitting from the northwest antenna farm, you'll also be able to receive WTTV-DT from the Trafalgar tower site. On Feb. 18, 2009, WTTK-DT is scheduled to be on the air from the WXIN tower. Then your antenna won't necessarily have to be aimed south.

You are close enough to WNDY-DT's tower site north of Noblesville that you should be able to receive it off the side or back of your antenna.

The CM 4221 will be one of the smallest and easiest antennas to get through your small attic opening, and it would be easy to position in the attic or rather easy to mount on your chimney if it didn't work well in the attic. Whether this UHF-only antenna will do well with the DTVs on channels 8, 9 and 13 is debatable. A small VHF antenna could be placed in the attic and connected to the UHF antenna coaxial feed with a UHF/VHF combiner.

Just some thoughts for you and welcome to AVS Forum.

Steve

Question for Tom Weber-

The broadcast of the Pebble Beach golf tournament was magnificent, save for the playoff hole. For some reason, the telecast after the regulation holes were finished transitioned to standard def- including not being displayed full screen (black bars on either side). Was this attributable to the national feed or was a mistake made locally? I wonder if the timing had anything to do with it as the playoff hole occurred in the timeframe where the local news normally would have been broadcast (and as we all know, Ch. 8 does not broadcast its local news in full screen HD like Ch. 13)?

Thanks,

I just bought my first HDTV and am trying to decide what is the best avenue for receiving HD content. I’ve always used cable, was Insight now Comcast, here in Fishers. I’m leaning toward retaining standard cable and see what the QAM pick ups or possibly upgrading to digital cable. Since reading much of this post, it’s clear that many HD channels are available OTA. So as a secondary (or possible primary) source I’d like to add an antenna. Uverse isn’t available in my neighborhood and I’m not real fond satellite.

I have two lines of questions ones related to digital cable and the other related to OTA antennas. I hope I’m not too off topic for this thread, but if I go to digital cable, can I still pickup regular cable on my other TVs or will they each require some type of digital cable box?

As for on topic questions… I am trying to decide which antenna to get. My choices are some sort of small inconspicuous type to mount on top or side of the chimney. By this I mean something like the Winegard Sensor GS-2200/1100, the Radio Shack 15-2187, or Channel Master 3000A. My other choice could be to put multi bow tie or Yagi style antenna in the attic above the garage. By this I mean a CM4228, CM4221A, Winegard HD7080P, or CM3016.

The access to the attic above the upstairs bed room is only 20” square so I don’t think I can get an antenna of any reasonable size up there plus it wouldn’t be easy to adjust or ad an amp if needed. The garage attic isn’t ideal either since the 2nd story of the house is blocking the strongest channels to the west, but is unobstructed for the weaker channels to the north and south. My TV is going to be mounted above my fireplace so the inconspicuous outdoor antenna wouldn’t have far to go where as the garage attic will probably require at 60 or 80 feet of coax and possibly an amp. If I could manage to get an antenna in the attic above the bedrooms, it will be a one-time deal… set it and forget it.

So the million-dollar question is… do you think I would be better off with a lesser antenna mounted somewhere on my chimney or would a more sophisticated antenna hidden in the attic further away yield better results? I'd really like to hear what the local guys have to say about this and would appreciate your comment.

Thanks!Take the Wineguards off your list. I have the non-amplified (why should I need one when I'm 9 miles from the farm) and it is a PITA. Go with the 4221/4228. Forget trying to be low profile!!!

I too, have tried attic mounts and they don't work ALL THE TIME. Snow, wind, overcast, heat...all varialbles that affect it. Right now I have a Radio Shack U75 in the attic aimed at WTTV (sometimes it comes in , sometime's it doesn't) and a 4221 outside for the other top 5.

Thanks everyone for your much appreciated feedback. I’m beginning to lean towards the 4221 or similar four bay bow tie. My wife would like it in the attic, but I might be able to get away with putting it on the back side of the chimney since it most likely won’t fit through the access hole.

Now I’m trying to get an idea of how directional these bow ties really are… I presume the whiskers need to be closest to the source and the shield needs to be furthest. Perhaps some signal will come in on the sides and presume the least will come in from the opposite side of the grid.

So if I mount this to the back or side of my chimney and point it west… do I need to retain some sort of ability to rotate this? I could put it on a corner which would allow 90 degrees of rotation. If I need more, I’m back to the attic. Please let me know what your best guess would be … outside with limited mobility or in the attic with full rotation.

Thanks again for all your help.

Thanks everyone for your much appreciated feedback. I’m beginning to lean towards the 4221 or similar four bay bow tie. My wife would like it in the attic, but I might be able to get away with putting it on the back side of the chimney since it most likely won’t fit through the access hole.

Now I’m trying to get an idea of how directional these bow ties really are… I presume the whiskers need to be closest to the source and the shield needs to be furthest. Perhaps some signal will come in on the sides and presume the least will come in from the opposite side of the grid. STAY OUT of the attic. It will cut you down by about 40%.

So if I mount this to the back or side of my chimney and point it west… do I need to retain some sort of ability to rotate this? I could put it on a corner which would allow 90 degrees of rotation. If I need more, I’m back to the attic. Please let me know what your best guess would be … outside with limited mobility or in the attic with full rotation.

Thanks again for all your help.

The 4221 gives you about a 45 degree spread. I'd say your corner house mount would be your best bet. You might be able to tweak it enough to the South to pick up WTTV, but that might be iffy. Remember, it will be on the WXIN tower next Feb or before.

Now I’m trying to get an idea of how directional these bow ties really are…


The CM 4221 is the least directional antenna, with the design of the CM 4228 making it more directional. Most of the yagi-style antennas are even more directional. As long as there are no multipath issues at your location, the 4221 would most likely work very well for you. I have a 4221 and a 4228 sitting in my garage, so let me know if you'd like to test them some 'warmer' day or evening.

Personally, from what you've told us, I'd start with the antenna in the attic and see if it works to your liking, and if not, then mount it outdoors.

If you went with the 4221 for the UHF DTVs, and the VHF DTVs weren't received very well with it, you could easily install this antenna in the attic and combine it with the UHF signal.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13

Last summer, while in Muncie, I tested the CM 4221 (without an amplifier and with about 20 feet of coaxial cable) sitting up (leaning back against my car) on the blacktop parking lot of the Wal-Mart near WLBC-Radio, and was able to receive most of the Indy UHF DTV stations.

Steve

I'm suspecting the runover was not handled correctly, but I'll check and see if there was any note from CBS about only being able to do HD until 6 PM. Unlikely, that, but possible.

OK, I've checked, and there -may- have been a mis-cue from CBS. Indiana and Ohio stations were on a different HD transponder, because they saw thru the end of the IU-OSU basketball game, preceding golf. Maybe this other transponder dropped out at 6 PM. Regardless, the golf was available in HD on another transponder, so we should have been able to go back to HD after a bit of scrambling.

Probably, tho, just a goof here.

Tom Weber
WISH / WNDY Engineering

Tom,

Any chance of WISH multicasting the first 3 rounds of the NCAA tournament this year? I love HD but there's nothing like being able to switch back and forth between games during the tournament. Maybe we could have HD for the state teams (Butler, Purdue, IU, and Notre Dame) and multicast the rest. However, if I had to choose between HD or multicasting for the tournament, I would much rather have multicasting for the first three rounds.

Chris

Is anyone having problems getting WNDY-DT off air on a HR20? This started a couple of weeks ago for me. I am able to tune it in with a Hauppauge HVR-1600 and a TV tuner - but both of my HR20's show no signal.

My theory is that they are sending bad tuning data to the receivers - and if that is true it should affect anyone with HR20. Just curious because I would find it hard to believe that only a single channel would fail in hardware for 4 tuners.

Thanks
Bill

Is anyone having problems getting WNDY-DT off air on a HR20? This started a couple of weeks ago for me. I am able to tune it in with a Hauppauge HVR-1600 and a TV tuner - but both of my HR20's show no signal.

My theory is that they are sending bad tuning data to the receivers - and if that is true it should affect anyone with HR20. Just curious because I would find it hard to believe that only a single channel would fail in hardware for 4 tuners.

Thanks
Bill

No issues for me on my HR-20-100.

Does anyone know if Verizon has any plans to offer its FIOS TV service in Indy? I realize we're in AT&T territory but has Verizon competed with the established phone company anywhere else? From what I understand Verizon's service is better than U-Verse.

I would be astonished if Verizon would overbuild in an AT&T area, at least before they build out all their own territory - and that'll take many years.

Altho, at the rate the AT&T build is going about a block from my house, it'll be millenia before U-verse comes to all their customers!

No issues for me on my HR-20-100.

Well - not sure what happened but now it has restored itself :confused:
This box is just weird sometimes.

Hello all,
HH Gregg received it's shipment of the Over the Air converter box (Zenith) and have them available for the consumers. I hooked up a SD tv to one with av cables, and then used the antenna on the roof into the tv tuner in the tv, and then used my least expensive rabbit ears on the Zenith tuner. Picked up 11 digital channels (including sub channels) on the tv with the tv antenna on the roof, then with the Zenith tuner and lowly rabbit ears pulled in 25 channels. It blew my mind.....

Thanks for the tip Slam, still waiting on my two vouchers and I'll be ready to go.

On a side note....Any word if HHG will be clearing out their remaining HD dvd players at clearance prices (yeah I know they're already pretty cheap).

RSlamD,

Thanks for the post and feedback. About four weeks ago I picked up one of the new Magnavox units and then about two weeks ago I picked up the new Insignia (LG/Zenith) unit and have been testing them and reporting on them over in the HDTV Reception Hardware section. They are quite amazing receivers for the size and price. The newer generation chips in these boxes make them MUCH more forgiving with strong/weak signals, interference and multipath issues.

So far my favorite box (between the two) is the Insignia, which is made by LG, which also makes the Zenith box you are stocking at HH Gregg. BTW, great price at Gregg, too.

If a customer purchases one of these converter units at HH Gregg prior to receiving their $40 coupon, can the customer then return to Gregg at a later date with the coupon and receive a $40 credit? I'm reading reports that some retailers are honoring this plan.

Steve

Steve and RSlamD;
So the best set top boxes (multipath rejection, sensitivity, etc) are the $40 ones that output channel 3 or composite video and L/R audio?
Will somebody use the "newer generation chip" in a REAL digital set top box (component, HDMI, Dolby Digital)?
Or are they already available and I've not kept up (very possible!).
Nat

Steve and RSlamD;
So the best set top boxes (multipath rejection, sensitivity, etc) are the $40 ones that output channel 3 or composite video and L/R audio?
Will somebody use the "newer generation chip" in a REAL digital set top box (component, HDMI, Dolby Digital)?
Or are they already available and I've not kept up (very possible!).
Nat

From what I've seen so far, yes, these new, inexpensive (coupon-approved) SDTV receivers are very good relating to OTA reception. Between late last night and early this morning, thanks to some tropo enhancement, several of the Cincinnati DTV stations (just over 100 miles from my location) were in ( and out at times). Using my outdoor antenna setup (2-Triax Unix 100 UHF antennas horizontally stacked @ 30 ft. AGL and the CM 7775 preamp) which is quite directional, and then splitting the signal via an indoor 2-way splitter, I fed the Magnavox TB100MW9 and the Insignia NS-DXA1, two of the new SDTV receivers. With the Cincy stations, the Insignia was almost always a little ahead of the Magnavox in locating, decoding and diplaying audio/video. With the local stations, the two units were almost identical with the same process.

Then I moved the Insignia next to my two-year-old Sony 60" 1080p SXRD projection TV (KDS-R60XBR1) with built-in digital tuner. Using the Sony's split screen feature, I connected the Insignia to the Sony so I could watch (monitor) both receivers on one big screen. The $59 Insignia was making the Sony look stupid, with both distant and local reception. The Insignia was always decoding the weak Cincy stations ahead of the Sony, and then when the signal strength would drop a little, the Sony was almost always the first to drop the audio and video. And with local stations, including one station with its tower only 3 miles away (WTHR-DT-46 @ 1000kW), the Insignia was MUCH better at dealing with multipath. I could rotate the outdoor antenna in various directions and only occasionally see a few dropouts and/or pixelation with the Insignia, while the Sony would quite frequently display "No Signal."

The newer chips and technology have really improved OTA digital reception.

Supposedly, a few manufacturers, like LG, are using this latest technology in some HDTV models.

Steve

The $59 Insignia was making the Sony look stupid, with both distant and local reception. The Insignia was always decoding the weak Cincy stations ahead of the Sony, and then when the signal strength would drop a little, the Sony was almost always the first to drop the audio and video. And with local stations, including one station with its tower only 3 miles away (WTHR-DT-46 @ 1000kW), the Insignia was MUCH better at dealing with multipath. I could rotate the outdoor antenna in various directions and only occasionally see a few dropouts and/or pixelation with the Insignia, while the Sony would quite frequently display "No Signal."

The newer chips and technology have really improved OTA digital reception.

Supposedly, a few manufacturers, like LG, are using this latest technology in some HDTV models.

Steve

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought these converters were used to change digital to analog? After reading through a few of these posts it seems they are actually being used as HDTV antennas?

Please educate the feeble minded! I could use some help reception-wise with the indoor antennas I am currently using to pull in the local HD channels and roof/attic mounting is not an option.

Thanks,

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought these converters were used to change digital to analog? After reading through a few of these posts it seems they are actually being used as HDTV antennas?

Please educate the feeble minded! I could use some help reception-wise with the indoor antennas I am currently using to pull in the local HD channels and roof/attic mounting is not an option.

Thanks,

You are correct. These new digital-to-analog converter boxes are receivers that convert the OTA digital signal to analog for older TVs, via RF output connection (using ch. 3 or 4 on the older TV) or composite outputs (video, L/R audio) and then into the TV if it is a newer analog TV with RCA-type composite inputs available.

These new, inexpensive and government coupon-approved receivers will not output a high-definition signal for HDTV monitors, but rather only a standard-definition signal. And these units have nothing to do with antennas, because you still need a good indoor or outdoor antenna (depending on your location and how distant the DTV signals are from that location) connected to one of these receivers. The main jist in the above and other comparisons being made online is that these new units are much better at receiving and decoding digital signals than anything else we've seen to date. They appear to handle strong/weak signals, interference and multipath issues MUCH better than previous digital receivers. These are the "New and Improved" STBs.

Good digital reception seems to equal a good balance between receiver and antenna. But even a very good receiver can not always make up for a bad signal, so make sure whatever antenna you are using is capable of receiving and feeding to your receiver the strongest and cleanest (free of interference, multipath, etc.) signal possible. This will go a long way in eliminating or at least highly reducing any future dropouts, video pixilation/macro-blocking, video freezing, etc.

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

Steve

So I wonder if there won't be a market for, higher end, after market tuners that produce HDTV rather than standard?

So I wonder if there won't be a market for, higher end, after market tuners that produce HDTV rather than standard?

No. What 'produces' HDTV is the signal. (Or, more accurately, the signal *carries* HDTV.)

The standards adopted for *digital* signals enables a higher-resolution picture to be transmitted than what the past analog broadcast standard allowed. The digital signal is known as ATSC (AT = advanced television) and is incompatible with older, analog (NTSC) television tuners (receivers) EXCEPT via these converter boxes.

If your NTSC analog television ( a 480-line standard) cannot display 720 lines or 1080 lines, no ATSC tuner -aftermarket or not- can deliver high-resolution (High Definition) pictures to your set. Your analog set can only display Standard Resolution (480 lines). The converter box will down convert to 480 lines the 720 or 1080 line digital picture it receives.

The chain is Signal ==> Receiver(Tuner)==> Display

The capability of your display limits (or, alternatively permits) the resolution you can see. Without an HD set, you can only get standard resolution even with the converter boxes. The converter boxes enable people with analog sets to continue receiving television pictures after Feb 2009, when ALL television will be transmitted in the ATSC digital format. They won't have to throw their sets away.

So I wonder if there won't be a market for, higher end, after market tuners that produce HDTV rather than standard?

I wondered that myself. It's too bad that these new and cheap tuners (designed to send out an analog signal or composite video to old televisions) are MUCH more sensitive and resistant to multipath reception than two hundred dollar tuners of old.
I thought Steve did an EXCELLENT job in his experiment above.
I just wish somebody would use the new tuner technology to produce an HDTV signal and Digital sound. It reminds me of putting a Formula One racing engine inside a Yugo.
I'd like to see just what the new tuners are capable of, but they're not worth forty bucks to me if they won't send out HDTV or digital audio.

No. What 'produces' HDTV is the signal. (Or, more accurately, the signal *carries* HDTV.)

The standards adopted for *digital* signals enables a higher-resolution picture to be transmitted than what the past analog broadcast standard allowed. The digital signal is known as ATSC (AT = advanced television) and is incompatible with older, analog (NTSC) television tuners (receivers) EXCEPT via these converter boxes.

If your NTSC analog television ( a 480-line standard) cannot display 720 lines or 1080 lines, no ATSC tuner -aftermarket or not- can deliver high-resolution (High Definition) pictures to your set. Your analog set can only display Standard Resolution (480 lines). The converter box will down convert to 480 lines the 720 or 1080 line digital picture it receives.

The chain is Signal ==> Receiver(Tuner)==> Display

The capability of your display limits (or, alternatively permits) the resolution you can see. Without an HD set, you can only get standard resolution even with the converter boxes. The converter boxes enable people with analog sets to continue receiving television pictures after Feb 2009, when ALL television will be transmitted in the ATSC digital format. They won't have to throw their sets away.

What you have written is absolutely correct. But I think his point is that these new boxes won't allow an HDTV capable television to show HDTV.
I have several older generation tuners in my home, and I would like to buy a new tuner or two with the super sensitivity and multipath rejection, but what good are they with an HDTV capable television?

Just FYI, we converted WISH-HD to Dolby 2/0 stereo last night, in an attempt to further troubleshoot our audio problems. If it proves to not be the issue, we'll go back to the 3/2 surround, probably overnight tonight.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

What you have written is absolutely correct. But I think his point is that these new boxes won't allow an HDTV capable television to show HDTV. I have several older generation tuners in my home, and I would like to buy a new tuner or two with the super sensitivity and multipath rejection, but what good are they with an HDTV capable television?

Fair point, Nat. The questioner was labeled as a New Member, so I assumed he hadn't acquired all the bruises the rest of us gained moving up our own HD learning curve. Thus I interpreted his question as "then will there be tuners in the future that can deliver HDTV to my old analog set?" Perhaps my assumption was incorrect.

I see your point. And I appreciate the nature of your concern.

Meanwhile, I'm beating as many drums as possible in bringing to light that manufacturers of HD sets are not enabling users to access or use the PSIP data required in the ATSC signal standard. I wrote a note in this forum about this back around Christmas time when I discovered it lacking in a new Sony set. When I returned it, I was stunned to be informed by store sales personnel that *none* of the HD sets currently on the market have the electronic program guide (EPG) feature enabled by PSIP data.

Steve performed a test on all his receivers and found their support of PSIP varied pretty significantly. I've since written letters on this to Sen. Lugar, each FCC commissioner, a couple of folks who are & have been engaged in the ATSC standard (neither were aware of PSIP functionality not being supported, btw) and to congressional committee staffers involved in oversight of the DTV transition. I've included screen shots in the letter to illustrate what is missing & why it's important.

Thankfully, my Samsung H260F set top box -and its remote- delivers the PSIP data & EPG functionality to my three-year old HD-ready set. Otherwise, I'd have been, like virtually all other consumers, totally unaware that manufacturers aren't supporting this facet of the ATSC standard and instead are selling consumers 'crippled' sets for a thousand dollars or more.

Please excuse me if this has been asked and answered previously.

Is there any progress or chance that WISH-TV will be uplinking their HD signal to DirecTV anytime soon or ever?

It is the only major network in the Indianapolis area that is not available on the DirecTV HD receiver.

Paul

Fair point, Nat. The questioner was labeled as a New Member, so I assumed he hadn't acquired all the bruises the rest of us gained moving up our own HD learning curve. Thus I interpreted his question as "then will there be tuners in the future that can deliver HDTV to my old analog set?" Perhaps my assumption was incorrect.

Yep, your assumption was incorrect. My mistake though, didn't explain myself well. Simply what I was trying to get at is if there might be better after market tuners available for my 2 HDTVs.

Yep, your assumption was incorrect. My mistake though, didn't explain myself well. Simply what I was trying to get at is if there might be better after market tuners available for my 2 HDTVs.

Thanks for the clarification.

As regards the likelihood of new after-market HD tuners becoming available, I'd have to say that's a certainty.

Drawing upon what I've learned, where all the HD sets currently on the market don't support PSIP (including the clock signal!), I think the manufacturers have decided to lay the groundwork for people to buy replacement or supplementary tuners for their HD sets, even the brand-new ones.

Please excuse me if this has been asked and answered previously.

Is there any progress or chance that WISH-TV will be uplinking their HD signal to DirecTV anytime soon or ever?

It is the only major network in the Indianapolis area that is not available on the DirecTV HD receiver.

Paul

WISH is owned by LIN, a company that seems to almost take pride in being difficult to work with. They take the same consumer-unfriendly tack in all their stations around the country as they do in Indy.

Email the WISH station manager. You probably won't get a reply, but it can't hurt...

.....As regards the likelihood of new after-market HD tuners becoming available, I'd have to say that's a certainty.

Drawing upon what I've learned, where all the HD sets currently on the market don't support PSIP (including the clock signal!), I think the manufacturers have decided to lay the groundwork for people to buy replacement or supplementary tuners for their HD sets, even the brand-new ones.

Wow. I read a just a little about PSIP, and I'm once again irritated with today's manufacturers. How much could it cost them to do it right? I hate to always think ulterior motives, but I think that not including this feature in currently produced HDTVs is at best poor planning, but more likely greed.

Wow. I read a just a little about PSIP, and I'm once again irritated with today's manufacturers. How much could it cost them to do it right? I hate to always think ulterior motives, but I think that not including this feature in currently produced HDTVs is at best poor planning, but more likely greed.

Or maybe some calculation that, ultimately, TV's will be network devices reliant upon a yet-to-be-developed interface device (i.e. that on-board tuners will become obsolete). TVs as we have known them will simply be a monitor and a set-top box with Ethernet, fiber and coax connections. Perhaps they're simply positioning themselves (and consumers) for this future. Perhaps, perhaps....

What irritates me is that PSIP is part of the ATSC *standard*. So how in hell can manufacturers blithely ignore this? One would think that selling a set with on-screen program information -and an ability to program one's tuner to change to a channel for its upcoming program- would offer manufacturers a way to differentiate their sets from their competitors and make them more appealing to consumers. Alas, the ATSC standard is required of *broadcasters*, not manufacturers!

And it would be comical if it weren't serious, but PSIP includes a clock signal, one that ATSC requires be transmitted once every second. But because these new sets don't support PSIP, their clocks have to be set manually!! Wow -- they're about as 'smart' as a clock radio! That's a sad, sad commentary on the promise of advanced broadcast technology ATSC was designed to be. The manufacturers are 'short-sheeting' their customers, selling them only a crisper picture and surround sound.

I gotta believe the manufacturers' behavior may also reveal a recognition (resignation?) that the vast majority of televisions get their signal from cable or satellite purveyors and that cable and satellite systems do & will provide the on-screen programming information, clock and Tivo-like functions of PSIP. Perhaps the manufacturers are in cahoots with the Comcasts and DirecTVs of the world.

But I'm not interested in paying $50 or so a month on television; I don't place that high a value on cable or satellite additional channels. They're mostly just filling up those channels with narrowcast material, including the premium Big Ten Network and NFL Network, aiming simply to accumulate the largest possible subscription base and revenue. I'm happy with what I can get OTA (and I owe a debt of gratitude to this forum -- I wouldn't have been able to do it by myself).

I'm waiting for the commercial subchannels to start deliver programming other than the old radar screen. (I'd rather watch the old Indian test screen; it was COOL!) At least WRTV runs their news 24/7; that's handy at times. It will be very interesting to see what material the commercial broadcasters will put up on the subchannels.

Meanwhile, I'd encourage anyone to express concern with the PSIP-less sets being sold today. Contact your local retailer, sales personnel. Write your Congressional representatives. Call or write the FCC (even though they, surprisingly, have little if any authority over manufacturers). What's the point of having a standard if the manufacturers of consumer devices ignore it?

I agree with your assessment regarding the current OTA situation. I continue to be amazed at the reluctance of the manufacturers to "just do it right the first time."
On the positive side, I have been amazed at the ability of two religious channels (42 and 60) to quickly figure out multicasting.
They each have four or five 480p program channels, including one in Spanish. Channel 4 on the other hand has exactly one channel at the moment (at least on my tuners). They had one subchannel showing ancient rock videos for a while, but it went away.
One thing is a constant in this whole situation. It's moving very quickly and it takes a great portion of one's life to even begin to understand what is happening at the moment....
Nat

On the positive side, I have been amazed at the ability of two religious channels (42 and 60) to quickly figure out multicasting.
They each have four or five 480p program channels, including one in Spanish.

Yes, they have learned how to pump out multiple programs. There's no end to the stuff that can be pumped out (witness the proliferation of cable channels, each striving to fill their allotted bandwidth.)

I finally removed those channels from my list. I found they just got in the way of the channels I care to watch. I realize that means I might miss an occasional episode of "The Lone Ranger" or "Lassie", but the value I place on broadcasting lies more toward *information* than entertainment. Probably reflects my age, 56.

Now again, I might put those channels back on my list if they chose to broadcast "Flash Gordon" -- I can't get enough of Ming The Merciless. But C-SPAN would be better, a vast improvement to their preferred fare.

Hi All,

Over the past few days, it has been increasingly impossible to get WISHDT to come in clearly. Looking over the TIVO Channel Strength meter, it is showing 2 different frequencies (9 & 32) for each of the channels (8-1,8-2,& 8-3). Freq 9 is the one with the picture that I can't seem to tune in any more (strength=10-20) and freq 32 is coming in great (85-90). WISHTV was previously my low stength channel, but always hit at least 60.

A bit of info...

- I'm located near SR32 & US31 in Westfield
- I'm using an amp'ed set of bunny ears. Amp is turned quite low as it distorts other channels
- Here are some strengths for the other channels:
--- WRTVDT (6-1) = 83
--- WTHRDT (13-1)= 87
--- WFYIDT (20-1) = 74-79
--- WNDYDT (23-1) = 81
--- WXINDT (59-1) = 88

The questions I have... Is there an operation afoot to move WISHDT to the other frequency (32)? If not, is anyone else experiencing this? Does anyone have suggestions?

Thanks for listening! :)

Mike

Hi All,

Over the past few days, it has been increasingly impossible to get WISHDT to come in clearly. Looking over the TIVO Channel Strength meter, it is showing 2 different frequencies (9 & 32) for each of the channels (8-1,8-2,& 8-3). Freq 9 is the one with the picture that I can't seem to tune in any more (strength=10-20) and freq 32 is coming in great (85-90). WISHTV was previously my low stength channel, but always hit at least 60.

A bit of info...

- I'm located near SR32 & US31 in Westfield
- I'm using an amp'ed set of bunny ears. Amp is turned quite low as it distorts other channels
- Here are some strengths for the other channels:
--- WRTVDT (6-1) = 83
--- WTHRDT (13-1)= 87
--- WFYIDT (20-1) = 74-79
--- WNDYDT (23-1) = 81
--- WXINDT (59-1) = 88

The questions I have... Is there an operation afoot to move WISHDT to the other frequency (32)? If not, is anyone else experiencing this? Does anyone have suggestions?

Thanks for listening! :)

Mike

There's no correlation between WISH-DT and Ch32,which is WNDY that remaps to 23-1.

Suggest you dump the rabbit ears and get a 4-bay UHF and put it in a closet or attic space.As close as you are to the transmitters it'll still work for VHF 7-13 channels.

There's no correlation between WISH-DT and Ch32,which is WNDY that remaps to 23-1.

Suggest you dump the rabbit ears and get a 4-bay UHF and put it in a closet or attic space.As close as you are to the transmitters it'll still work for VHF 7-13 channels.

Hope I'm not being too much of a noob here... What would a manufacturer/part number be for a 4 bay UHF?

On another topic, should I be expecting to get any other channels based on my location? I do also get 40-X... Other than that, what I have listed above is the extent of my OTA channels...

Thanks again!

Mike

Hope I'm not being too much of a noob here... What would a manufacturer/part number be for a 4 bay UHF?

Thanks again!

Mike

This is considered a good 4-bay.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM4221A
You "might" be able to pick up WTTV, if you mount it outside. Attics really cut down the reception capabilities.
You can also get this antenna at Fry's in Fishers...a few bucks more.

WTTV-DT is currently operating at low power (4kW) due to an exciter issue with the high-power transmitter. Rick is working on it and hopes to have the station back to high power (870kW) later today.

Steve

I know that we are talking to DirecTV, but it's going on at Corporate levels - I have no knowledge whatsoever on how close or far apart we are.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Been out of town a couple of days, but I'll see if we can't get back to 3/2 surround late this afternoon.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I know that we are talking to DirecTV, but it's going on at Corporate levels - I have no knowledge whatsoever on how close or far apart we are.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Do you know how long talks have been going on (i.e. have they been reopened recently)?

WTTV-DT is currently operating at low power (4kW) due to an exciter issue with the high-power transmitter. Rick is working on it and hopes to have the station back to high power (870kW) later today.

SteveThat's all well and good, but their here now and gone tomorrow has been going on for 6 months. I don't plan on ever really "seeing" them again until next year.

That's all well and good, but their here now and gone tomorrow has been going on for 6 months. I don't plan on ever really "seeing" them again until next year.

870kW @ 1043 ft. and you can't receive WTTV-DT consistantly? How far are you from the tower? It sounds like something is wrong on your end. I'm 37 miles north of the tower and I was able to receive it reliably at 4kW with the CM 4221 (you suggested above) and a CM preamp. Now that the station is (normally) at 870kW I'm able to receive the station with the CM 4221 sitting on the floor in my basement and without a preamp. With one of the new CECBs (Coupon Eligible Converter Box) and a $3 antenna in my basement, I'm still able to receive it.
http://www.wtfda.info/showpost.php?p=4354&postcount=1

BTW, I applied for a $40 coupon 1/1/08 and received it yesterday. RSlamD, I'll be stopping by H H Gregg very soon for the Zenith DTT900.

Steve

Hi,

I've been trying for a while to get channel 4(the CW network) on my digital tuner. I used to get channel 29.1, but I guess that transmitter has been turned off/down. Anyway, I'd like to get the CW network for my kid's Saturday Cartoons. I live at 131st and Keystone, so I was wondering which direction is the correct one? I've tried the antennaweb.org and tvfool sites and tried the directions they suggested, but still no joy. Also, which channel is the correct one to try? I've tried 4.1 and 29.1, but no luck. I've tried using a Radio Shack boom antenna (around 50" long) and I also have a Channel Master 3671 in the attic, but no luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
John

Hi,

I've been trying for a while to get channel 4(the CW network) on my digital tuner. I used to get channel 29.1, but I guess that transmitter has been turned off/down. Anyway, I'd like to get the CW network for my kid's Saturday Cartoons. I live at 131st and Keystone, so I was wondering which direction is the correct one? I've tried the antennaweb.org and tvfool sites and tried the directions they suggested, but still no joy. Also, which channel is the correct one to try? I've tried 4.1 and 29.1, but no luck. I've tried using a Radio Shack boom antenna (around 50" long) and I also have a Channel Master 3671 in the attic, but no luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
John

We're not far apart, as I'm just south of you. From my location the WTTV tower in Trafalgar is located at 182 degrees (azimuth reading). Your reading should be very close to this, too. So aim your antenna pretty much straight south and then tweak it slightly east or west. Then if your receiver allows direct entry of the true RF channel, enter 48. WTTV-DT transmits its signal via channel 48, with your receiver remapping and indicating the virtual channel as 4.1. If direct entry is not allowed with your receiver, then let it perform another auto scan after positioning the antenna.

As a test, you can also try tweaking your antenna for WIPX-DT-27 (63.1 - 63.4) and WCLJ-DT-56 (42.1 - 42.5). The towers for WTTV, WIPX and WCLJ are all located on the south edge of Trafalgar in Johnson County. In the eyes of the FCC, these three stations are licensed to Bloomington.

BTW, your kids might enjoy watching WIPX-DT via their subchannel 63.2 which is Qubo, the kids network that is aired Saturday mornings on NBC.

Let us know how you come out.

Steve

We're not far apart, as I'm just south of you. From my location the WTTV tower in Trafalgar is located at 182 degrees (azimuth reading). Your reading should be very close to this, too. So aim your antenna pretty much straight south and then tweak it slightly east or west. Then if your receiver allows direct entry of the true RF channel, enter 48. WTTV-DT transmits its signal via channel 48, with your receiver remapping and indicating the virtual channel as 4.1. If direct entry is not allowed with your receiver, then let it perform another auto scan after positioning the antenna.

As a test, you can also try tweaking your antenna for WIPX-DT-27 (63.1 - 63.4) and WCLJ-DT-56 (42.1 - 42.5). The towers for WTTV, WIPX and WCLJ are all located on the south edge of Trafalgar in Johnson County. In the eyes of the FCC, these three stations are licensed to Bloomington.

BTW, your kids might enjoy watching WIPX-DT via their subchannel 63.2 which is Qubo, the kids network that is aired Saturday mornings on NBC.

Let us know how you come out.

Steve

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I tried to orient the antenna to 188 degree (using compass) earlier and couldn't get 4.1. I can try to point it closer to 180. With the orientation I have now I get a real blocky (breaking up) picture on 63.1-63.4, but no signal at all on 42.1-42.5. I have the antenna laying on the attic insulation right now, so it is pointing slightly up - would mounting it up enough to get it level be a good idea? I is too big to go very high in the attic, but I could get it level. I'll reorient tomorrow (company here tonight) and let you know.
Thanks again,
John

Sorry, I mistyped before. My existing small (50" boom) Radio shack antenna gets the channels I described. My big Channel Master (173" long boom) doesn't get anything from those. I'll go reaim it tomorrow. Could it be too big?

Final addendum until I can test. Is it better to use a smaller antenna and get it higher in the attic? The really big one can't get more than 2 or 3 ft from the attic floor before it starts hitting things. My smaller one can get 5 or 6 feet off the floor.

Thanks,
John

Final addendum until I can test. Is it better to use a smaller antenna and get it higher in the attic? The really big one can't get more than 2 or 3 ft from the attic floor before it starts hitting things. My smaller one can get 5 or 6 feet off the floor.

Thanks,
John

Antennas need a little breathing room as they tend to couple themselves to anything nearby(even you).Use the smaller antenna and move it around the attic for best reception.Wouldn't hurt to put it on a rotor as you have transmitters in different directions.

I've tried 4.1 and 29.1, but no luck. I've tried using a Radio Shack boom antenna (around 50" long) and I also have a Channel Master 3671 in the attic, but no luck.
John, something just doesn't sound right. I'm on the south side of Brownsburg and I have an AntennaCraft AC9 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AC9), their smallest and least expensive broadband antenna, mounted in my attic (one story house). It's pointed generally east-north-east. I get Channel 4.1 HD with 49-54% signal strength. For comparison, I get 6.1 at 82-87%, 8.1 at 93-98%, 13.1 at 93%, and 59.1 at 87%. Channel 4.1 is coming in on physical channel 48. I get a snowy picture on analog 29 and no signal on 29.1.

I'd think that from your location, you should be able to get signals as well as I do, though the buildings in downtown Indianapolis may be blocking your view of the Trafalgar tower site. As I recall, 29's transmitter used to be somewhere up near Kokomo, so that'd be the opposite direction from Trafalgar at your location. If you haven't already, you may want check your antenna, cable, and connections to make sure something hasn't worked loose or is damaged.

I just moved into the area (lafayette) I have comcast and was wondering what channels one can pick up with a qam tuner. Thanks sorry if there is already a list couldn't find it. So if there is a link let me know.

John, something just doesn't sound right. I'm on the south side of Brownsburg and I have an AntennaCraft AC9 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AC9), their smallest and least expensive broadband antenna, mounted in my attic (one story house). It's pointed generally east-north-east. I get Channel 4.1 HD with 49-54% signal strength. For comparison, I get 6.1 at 82-87%, 8.1 at 93-98%, 13.1 at 93%, and 59.1 at 87%. Channel 4.1 is coming in on physical channel 48. I get a snowy picture on analog 29 and no signal on 29.1.

I'd think that from your location, you should be able to get signals as well as I do, though the buildings in downtown Indianapolis may be blocking your view of the Trafalgar tower site. As I recall, 29's transmitter used to be somewhere up near Kokomo, so that'd be the opposite direction from Trafalgar at your location. If you haven't already, you may want check your antenna, cable, and connections to make sure something hasn't worked loose or is damaged.

I just finished getting a new antenna 66" boom and trying it in the attic above my garage. The other attic is above the second floor, but has a lot of metal on the south roof. In the other attic with the 66" boom antenna and new cabling, I can get 63.1-63.4 crystal clear with 94% signal strength. I can also get all the normal ABC,CBS,NBC,PBS digital channels. Channel 4 looks better, but no 4.1. Likewise 29 has static and no 29.1. Right now it is resting on my ceiling joists, so tomorrow I'm going to put a pole to my roof joists and get the antenna in free air. Maybe I'm just unlucky and have a downtown Indy building in the way :( When I get it on the pole in the attic, I'll rotate it toward Kokomo.

John

I just finished getting a new antenna 66" boom and trying it in the attic above my garage.
Keep in mind that while long-boom antennas have more gain, they also have sharper beamwidths. That makes aiming the antenna more difficult because it has to be right on to keep the transmitter in the beamwidth of the antenna.

If you are trying to receive signals from multiple transmit sites, aiming the antenna becomes a compromise as you try to find that sweet spot where all of the stations you want to receive come in equally well. That's one of the reasons why most of the locals have relocated their transmitters to all be in the same general location. With WTTV transmitting from Trafalgar, you may have to put up separate antennas to get all of the locals equally well.

Keep in mind that while long-boom antennas have more gain, they also have sharper beamwidths. That makes aiming the antenna more difficult because it has to be right on to keep the transmitter in the beamwidth of the antenna.

If you are trying to receive signals from multiple transmit sites, aiming the antenna becomes a compromise as you try to find that sweet spot where all of the stations you want to receive come in equally well. That's one of the reasons why most of the locals have relocated their transmitters to all be in the same general location. With WTTV transmitting from Trafalgar, you may have to put up separate antennas to get all of the locals equally well.

I'll keep that in mind, but so far I can get everything but channel 4 with the smallest of antennas - in my basement. So I think if I could just pull in channel 4, then the others would come in anyway. More testing today after work.

Still working on tweaking antenna. No luck yet on 4.1. Is there a date set for when the downtown Indy transmitter for 4.1 will be turned on?

Still working on tweaking antenna. No luck yet on 4.1. Is there a date set for when the downtown Indy transmitter for 4.1 will be turned on?Last I heard it will not be until around the switch-over next Feb. It will be sharing the WXIN tower.

Hey guys,

I'm completely new to this whole OTA thing. Just got Directv knowing they didn't get WISH in HD, but confident I could arrange an OTA setup.

I'm in Kokomo, and while I get WISH great at night, I can barely get anything during the day. All of my other Indianapolis stations come in very strong day or night, so I'm a bit confused. I understand interference and everything might be greater during the day, but like I said, all of my other stations come in fine day or night.

Does WISH change their signal in some fashion during the day? Do I need to re-adjust my antenna in some way? Is it just the daytime interference?

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

WISH's digital signal is on VHS channel 9. I'm pretty sure all of the rest of the Indy digital signals are UHF.
I would think you should be well covered in Kokomo.
Nat

WISH's digital signal is on VHS channel 9. I'm pretty sure all of the rest of the Indy digital signals are UHF.
I would think you should be well covered in Kokomo.
Nat
You can see their digital coverage area at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT579793.html

I'm in Kokomo, and while I get WISH great at night, I can barely get anything during the day. All of my other Indianapolis stations come in very strong day or night, so I'm a bit confused...............


I placed an old beat-up VHF antenna in my parent's attic in Kokomo (near Alto Rd./Albright Rd. intersection) and WISH-DT almost totally pegs the signal meter and is usually very strong and stable, day and night. I'm even using this VHF-only antenna to receive the other Indy DTVs. I was surprised that I could receive the UHF stations with a VHF antenna in the attic (@ approx. 37-38 miles). The only one that occasionally breaks up is WRTV-DT. When the weather warms up I'm planning some revisions with a UHF antenna, too.

When I tested with a UHF-only antenna, the UHF stations were just fine but I couldn't get WISH-DT, as it was too weak. Are you using an antenna that's designed for UHF only? If so, that might be your problem. As Nat mentioned above, WISH-DT is on channel 9, a VHF channel, as is WLFI-DT, on channel 11. Are you receiving it from Lafayette? Tropospheric conditions will generally bend and enhance the signals a little more at night. It sounds like your current signal level is very weak and the extra enhancement at night is just enough to bring it up to decoding levels.

Steve

There was a new thread in the HDTV Programming forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1004513

Has WISH decided how they are going to handle the tournament? I know it's worth it to me to give up HD for the first 3 rounds so I can flip back and forth between the various games (or set up multiple TV's with a different game on each one!). :D

Since when does WISH have more than one station so that you could even do that?

Since when does WISH have more than one station so that you could even do that?

Digital channels 8-1,8-2, and 8-3 make it not only possible, but WISH actually did it a few years ago. It was pretty neat to see three different NCAA games being broadcast at once on the "three eights," but I'm afraid it may be a thing of the past.
We can hope!
Nat Hill IV

Huh?

So with DirecTV, how would I access that?

Huh?

So with DirecTV, how would I access that?

OTA antenna into box, scan, etc.

Wasn't sure this day would ever happen. Maybe Dish will offer HD locals in Indy soon....

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=28341

Ugh. What about DirecTV?

Wasn't sure this day would ever happen. Maybe Dish will offer HD locals in Indy soon....

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=28341

Probably in the Fall.

Just a fyi to all.....the tuners in the DTV and Dish boxes are not the best in the world. The antenna split between 100+ televisions in my HH Gregg Store is also ran into our Dish receiver and the tv tuners are far superior to the one in the receiver. I took the steps to go thru and run Antenna to all my tv's at home and also to the one dvr box at home for recording purposes (dish as well). I thought is was more than worth the effort.

Randy

I'm trying to watch Illinois beat Minnesota, but the drops outs, blocking, etc. are at a new all time high, even for CBS. Add in Billie Packer, and it's not a pretty sight.
I hope it is my setup, and not a CBS problem. But if it's CBS's problem, I guess I simply don't understand why CBS can't send out a decent HDTV signal after all these years.

I'm trying to watch Illinois beat Minnesota, but the drops outs, blocking, etc. are at a new all time high, even for CBS. Add in Billie Packer, and it's not a pretty sight.
I hope it is my setup, and not a CBS problem. But if it's CBS's problem, I guess I simply don't understand why CBS can't send out a decent HDTV signal after all these years.


Over in the HDTV programming forum many people are reporting similar issues so it seems to be a CBS problem. IMHO CBS does a great job with the picture on football and golf but they absolutely stink with college basketball.

Over in the HDTV programming forum many people are reporting similar issues so it seems to be a CBS problem. IMHO CBS does a great job with the picture on football and golf but they absolutely stink with college basketball.Yesterday afternoon, I kept switching back and forth between the CBS (OTA) game and the ESPN game. The latter pristine, CBS very noisy.

I'm trying to watch Illinois beat Minnesota, but the drops outs, blocking, etc. are at a new all time high, even for CBS. Add in Billie Packer, and it's not a pretty sight.
I hope it is my setup, and not a CBS problem. But if it's CBS's problem, I guess I simply don't understand why CBS can't send out a decent HDTV signal after all these years.

It's a CBS problem: his name is Jim Nantz.

Comcast in Atlanta is doing it this year - and advertising it:
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/uga/stories/2008/03/17/ncaatv_0317.html

I would LOVE to see WISH do this again...its awesome.

Comcast in Atlanta is doing it this year - and advertising it:
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/uga/stories/2008/03/17/ncaatv_0317.html

I would LOVE to see WISH do this again...its awesome.

This would be a good way to promote one of the cool features of the digital transition...

so if WISH were to do this, the only way to see would be OTA? that's lame

Well, we're NOT doing the multiple games thing, but in years past, the local cable companies also participated, and they would distribute the additional games on their digital cable tiers.

I'm really of 2 minds about this. We pioneered the multiple games multicast, and I like being able to show off, but it's either HD or multiple games. At least in the first round, all the Indiana teams are playing at different times, so we should always be able to show the Indiana team game in HD. How much the tournament directors take factors like this into account I just cannot say, it has not always been the case, I know.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Hey Tom, off the subject a bit. Is there any timetable for Ch.8's HD news studio/broacast? Just curious.

There is a timetable, but it's internal. Sorry, I can't comment on competitive plans!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

It happenin...I emailed WISH and here's the response I got:

"WISH-TV and CBS will be broadcasting all NCAA games in full High Definition (HD). We are very excited to provide our viewers with the best possible picture to enjoy March Madness. The digital signal (bandwidth) is not large enough to broadcast in both High Definition (HDTV) and multicast at the same time.

However, all games will be streamed online. Log onto www.WISHTV.com and click on our “2008 NCAA March Madness” section on the homepage. Look about half way down the page for the “NCAA March Madness on Demand” to watch or listen to all the games live online."

Tom,
I hear what you're saying....however as a die-hard Purdue fan I would gladly give up my game in HD to be able to watch all 4 regions in SD....at least on Thursday and Friday anyway.

Just my $.02 worth.

Hey guys. I am pretty new to the world of HD. We recently purchased a 50" Samsung HDTV and upgraded our dish service to HD. I need a little help finding a good antenna to pull in OTA in the Beech Grove area. Any suggestions? Also, our Dish installer said when we get set up, we will be best pointing towards the Keystone at the Crossing area, any truth to this?

I should add that I would rather do an attic mount if possible. Roof mount would be ok if necessary.

Hey guys. I am pretty new to the world of HD. We recently purchased a 50" Samsung HDTV and upgraded our dish service to HD. I need a little help finding a good antenna to pull in OTA in the Beech Grove area. Any suggestions? Also, our Dish installer said when we get set up, we will be best pointing towards the Keystone at the Crossing area, any truth to this?

I should add that I would rather do an attic mount if possible. Roof mount would be ok if necessary.

I'll just use this opportunity to throw in a plug for Attic Antenna if you would like a nice professional attic installation, including hidden cable runs, nice finished wall plates, etc.. Jim does a great job and the setup will be done right. Money well spent if you "just want it done" and you want to pull in all the channels in the area.

Attic Antenna
2160 Hanover Dr
Indianapolis, IN 46227
(317) 781-0149

I recently bought an HDTV. I do not plan to get cable. I live close to I-465/Michigan/Zionsville area on the Northwest side of the Indianapolis. Is it possible to get decent reception of local HD channels with an indoor antenna? If so, is there a type/brand that anyone can recommend.

I am technically challenged, so don't know if I can really install an outdoor/attic antenna myself. What do you think the cost might be if I hire somebody else to do it?

The house I live in had cable previously. I had cable internet for a brief period. So I know there are cables running around the house. When they activated my cable internet, they did something up in the attic above the garage. I know this sounds pathetic, but do you suppose I could try to buy a cheap antenna and hook it up somewhere in the attic myself, using the cables that currently run around the house? Does it require a lot of technical knowhow in terms of selection and placement of antenna?

And finally, does the attic antenna offer any significant advantages over indoor antenna in my case? It is a two storey house, but if I have to install an antenna, the space above the garage is the best.
Thanks for any advice.

Hey guys. I am pretty new to the world of HD. We recently purchased a 50" Samsung HDTV and upgraded our dish service to HD. I need a little help finding a good antenna to pull in OTA in the Beech Grove area. Any suggestions? Also, our Dish installer said when we get set up, we will be best pointing towards the Keystone at the Crossing area, any truth to this?

I should add that I would rather do an attic mount if possible. Roof mount would be ok if necessary.

Quite honestly, I would start with a set of $20 rabbit ears and see what kind of reception you get...that may be good enough. A lot depends on your receiver (built into the TV, via satellite box, or whatever).

The installer is right to tell you to point toward Keystone at the crossing...at least initially. Check out www.antennaweb.org by giving it your address it will show your position in relationship to the towers in this general area.

I live all the way up in Noblesville and I get pretty damn good OTA reception with simple rabbit ears located in my basement. My antenna plugs into my Dish Network receiver.

If a simple antenna wont cut it for whatever reason, then you can look into something that might be roof mounted or attic mounted.

Good luck.

The following is what antennaweb showed me for my location. With this in view, can someone recommend an indoor antenna that could work for most, if not all channels?


yellow
vhf WISH 8 CBS INDIANAPOLIS, IN 166° 3.1 8
* yellow
vhf WISH-DT 8.1 CBS INDIANAPOLIS, IN 166° 3.1 9
* yellow
uhf WHMB-DT 16 IND INDIANAPOLIS, IN 70° 13.9 16
* yellow
uhf WNDY-DT 23.1 MNT MARION, IN 49° 21.3 32
yellow
uhf WIIH-CA 17 UNI INDIANAPOLIS, IN 166° 3.1 17
yellow
uhf WFYI 20 PBS INDIANAPOLIS, IN 156° 2.6 20
* yellow
uhf WTTK-DT 29 CW KOKOMO, IN Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 163° 3.2 29
* yellow
vhf WTHR-DT 13.1 NBC INDIANAPOLIS, IN Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 101° 2.2 13
yellow
uhf WBXI-CA 47 IND INDIANAPOLIS, IN 166° 3.1 47
* yellow
uhf WFYI-DT 20.1 PBS INDIANAPOLIS, IN 156° 2.6 21
yellow
uhf WALV-CA 50 IND INDIANAPOLIS, IN 101° 2.2 50
yellow
vhf WTHR 13 NBC INDIANAPOLIS, IN 101° 2.2 13
* yellow
uhf WTHR-DT 13.1 NBC INDIANAPOLIS, IN 101° 2.2 46
* yellow
uhf WDTI-DT 44 DAY INDIANAPOLIS, IN TBD 165° 2.8 44
yellow
uhf WXIN 59 FOX INDIANAPOLIS, IN 163° 3.2 59
* yellow
uhf WXIN-DT 59.1 FOX INDIANAPOLIS, IN 163° 3.2 45
yellow
vhf WRTV 6 ABC INDIANAPOLIS, IN 156° 2.6 6
yellow
uhf WNDY 23 MNT MARION, IN 49° 21.3 23
* yellow
uhf WRTV-DT 6.1 ABC INDIANAPOLIS, IN 156° 2.6 25

Manny, this would be a good choice,
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM4221A
In an attic, you will get all the majors, but maybe not WNDY, but I don't consider that a loss. BTW, antenna web lists it as being in Marion, but it is actually in Northern Hamilton Co. The backside of this antenna should pick up WTTV fairly well. You will always get best performance with an outdoor mount. Another thing to keep in mind regarding WTTV, early next year it will be moving (tower) from Bloomington and sharing the WXIN tower on the NW side.

Well, I have rabbit ears now, but, only get 4,6, ( nope, no 8)13,20 and 59. I don't get a steady signal on any of them and I have tried the "ears" in different locations in the room. I think an Attic mount would be best as it is much easier access, however, I would do a roof mount if necessary. We mostly want 6,8,13 and 20. I have always been a huge fan of This Old House and recently started watching Ask This old House and really enjoy it. I tried to record them off of 020-01 this past Sat. and while it recorded, it kept loosing signal. We are also both fans of several shows in channel 8 and we can't even get that with the rabbit ears. I like to start my morning with Today on NBC, but, again, I keep loosing signal.

It's really hard to go to SD when you start getting used to HD!!!! Especially in the middle of a program.

I will check out the suggestions, thanks guys!

............. Another thing to keep in mind regarding WTTV, early next year it will be moving (tower) from Bloomington and sharing the WXIN tower on the NW side.

Not exactly. WTTV-DT-48 will remain on its tower in Trafalgar. WTTK-DT-54, Kokomo, WTTV's satellite station, is the one that's moving its tower location to sister station, WXIN. Sometime prior to Feb. 18, WTTK-29 will be shut down and then WTTK-DT will move from channel 54 to channel 29 and will move its transmitter site from Windfall to the WXIN tower. As of Feb. 18, WTTV-DT will continue to be full power from Trafalgar and WTTK-DT will be full power from NW Indy.

Steve

I recently bought an HDTV. I do not plan to get cable. I live close to I-465/Michigan/Zionsville area on the Northwest side of the Indianapolis. Is it possible to get decent reception of local HD channels with an indoor antenna? If so, is there a type/brand that anyone can recommend.

By no means am I an expert on this, but I live near you (Village of West Clay area). I have an indoor Terk HDTVi antenna sitting on top of my 1st floor entertainment center. I get excellent reception of all local HD stations , including WTTV (but not WTTK even though it's much closer) and WNDY. I wouldn't go to the expense of an outdoor or even an attic antenna that you then have to run down to your tv. I have a feeling you're close enough for a set of rabbit ears, but I don't know.

There is a timetable, but it's internal. Sorry, I can't comment on competitive plans!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

If Channel 8 were leading the way I could understand the secrecy, but since WISH is playing catch-up to the competition, why not provide some detail so as to allay concerns from customers?

By no means am I an expert on this, but I live near you (Village of West Clay area). I have an indoor Terk HDTVi antenna sitting on top of my 1st floor entertainment center. I get excellent reception of all local HD stations , including WTTV (but not WTTK even though it's much closer) and WNDY. I wouldn't go to the expense of an outdoor or even an attic antenna that you then have to run down to your tv. I have a feeling you're close enough for a set of rabbit ears, but I don't know.


NickIndy,
Thanks for the response. I am the SouthWest Clay area too, close to Shelbourne/ 96th. Do you think I may get better picture with an amplifier?

How many HD channels do you get in all right now? Do you get all those listed in the antennaweb for this area? (As I said, I am technically challenged, so my first impulse is to get an indoor antenna, at least for now.)

Do you ever change the direction of the antenna to improve reception on one of the channels? I am more interested in WFYI 20. How is your reception for that one?

Manny, this would be a good choice,
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...?PROD=SCM4221A
In an attic, you will get all the majors, but maybe not WNDY, but I don't consider that a loss.

Do you think this can be mounted on to of the garage?

How much expertise do you need to install this one? As I had mentioned, I have something like hub up in the attic on the garage. Can I just mount this antenna there and hook the cable to that hub (or whatever it is up there)? Does it automatically send the signal to the rest of the house through cables that run around the house? Do I need to do anything in addition to that.

Approximately what direction should the antenna face?
Thanks for the advice.

If Channel 8 were leading the way I could understand the secrecy, but since WISH is playing catch-up to the competition, why not provide some detail so as to allay concerns from customers?

Perhaps if this was a two station town your argument would have some merit, but keep in mind that of the four local newscasts in town, WTHR's is the only at the moment to offer HD content. I'm sure there's some degree of urgency among the remaining three to see who will be the next to offer HD content, and as such, Tom's comment is completely understandable.

Actually, I think the race for "first local HD newscast" is still very much open. Yes, WTHR does offer HD for their studio content, but in my book, the station who will ultimately be able to claim the true bragging rights is the station first to have studio content AND a majority of live remotes in HD as well.

I bought a philips silver sensor classic PHDTVI and connected it to my TV yesterday. After running the initial setup again, it recognized 17 analog channels and only 3 digital channels 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3. Of these 8.2 and 8.3 are useless. Only 8.1 WISH TV DT is relevant to me. Last night they telecast one of the NCAA matches in HD and it looked pretty good. I was hoping to catch more channels, especially WFYI. What am I doing wrong?

Please help.


NickIndy,
Which way is your antenna pointing?
Could it be that I did not run the setup correctly after connecting the antenna?

Not exactly. WTTV-DT-48 will remain on its tower in Trafalgar. WTTK-DT-54, Kokomo, WTTV's satellite station, is the one that's moving its tower location to sister station, WXIN. Sometime prior to Feb. 18, WTTK-29 will be shut down and then WTTK-DT will move from channel 54 to channel 29 and will move its transmitter site from Windfall to the WXIN tower. As of Feb. 18, WTTV-DT will continue to be full power from Trafalgar and WTTK-DT will be full power from NW Indy.

Steve

Steve;
Thanks for the accurate information. I use the Trafalgar signal.
I am NOT an engineer, but I do have a question.
Wouldn't having two broadcast towers sending out the same signal cause severe cases of the equivalent of multi-path interference in certain geographic locations?
My layman's understanding of multi-path is that you receive two signals from the same station, one in a straight line, and other reflected just a short time later.
I would think the same equivalent situation would occur with two towers.
Since I'm in Bloomington and my antenna points towards Indy, I'm wondering about my particular situation.
Thoughts?

Steve;
Thanks for the accurate information. I use the Trafalgar signal.
I am NOT an engineer, but I do have a question.
Wouldn't having two broadcast towers sending out the same signal cause severe cases of the equivalent of multi-path interference in certain geographic locations?
My layman's understanding of multi-path is that you receive two signals from the same station, one in a straight line, and other reflected just a short time later.
I would think the same equivalent situation would occur with two towers.
Since I'm in Bloomington and my antenna points towards Indy, I'm wondering about my particular situation.
Thoughts?They are two different completely frequencies/channels. WTTK serves areas north of Indy. You would tune to WTTV.

They are two different completely frequencies/channels. WTTK serves areas north of Indy. You would tune to WTTV.

Well there you go.
For every stupid question, there is a simple, clear and concise answer!:)
Thanks!
Nat

I bought a philips silver sensor classic PHDTVI and connected it to my TV yesterday. After running the initial setup again, it recognized 17 analog channels and only 3 digital channels 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3. Of these 8.2 and 8.3 are useless. Only 8.1 WISH TV DT is relevant to me. Last night they telecast one of the NCAA matches in HD and it looked pretty good. I was hoping to catch more channels, especially WFYI. What am I doing wrong?

Please help.


NickIndy,
Which way is your antenna pointing?
Could it be that I did not run the setup correctly after connecting the antenna?


Manny, are you glowing from the RF radiation at your location? Being just 2-3miles from most of the towers, you might be getting too much signal. And it is rather strange that with this UHF-only antenna you ARE receiving the only local DTV on VHF (WISH-DT-9) while you are NOT receiving any of the other local DTVs on UHF channels. You should be able to get enough signal from a paperclip or a couple feet of coaxial cable connected to the receiver.

Make sure your receiver is set for "antenna" (OTA, over the air) reception and not "cable." Or in addition to this, if your receiver has two RF inputs (one for cable and one for antenna) make sure you are using the "antenna" input.

If your receiver allows you to manually enter the true RF channel number of the DTV stations as opposed to letting it automatically scan for the stations, you might see if this process finds the local DTV stations. For example, WTHR-DT is currently transmitted on UHF channel 46. So enter "4" and "6" and see if the receiver recognizes this. If it does, and if it detects enough signal, it should automatically decode the audio and video, and remap the channel to display 13.1. WXIN-DT is on channel 45 (59.1), WRTV-DT is on channel 25 (6.1) and WFYI-DT is on channel 21 (20.1).

Does your receiver have a signal meter? If so, does it indicate any signal at all? If it does show some signal, is it steady and stable, or is it bouncing/jumping up and down? A signal that is jumping all over the place would indicate multipath issues with the signals.

Steve

Is anyone else not picking up "free" HD channels like espn WTHR and WISH from their QUAM Tuner? Last night I was watching all the games in awesome HD from the tuner and today it's not picking them up at all. I'm in the Muncie area.

Here's some exciting news, at least to me.
Now if Sarah Fisher can find more speed, I'll be really happy!
http://www.indycar.com/news/story.php?story_id=10380
This should be exciting to watch...

goldrich,
Thank you very much for your response. Like you said, my tv was set to "cable" as opposed to antenna. On changing it to "antenna" and running a setup, it detected a total of 18 digital channels. So far so good. I was delighted to be getting the 6.1, 8.1, 13.1, 20.1 and 59.1. There are others, I haven't payed much attention to them so far. I will be over the next few days and posting all the channels I get. If you think I am missing some that I should be getting, please let me know.

On a side note, they said it could cost anywhere between $300.00 and $400.00 to have an antenna installed in the attic. Nothing beats getting most, if not all channels for $20.00. Are there any other steps I can take to improve reception (type of antenna, cable etc?)

On a side note, they said it could cost anywhere between $300.00 and $400.00 to have an antenna installed in the attic. Nothing beats getting most, if not all channels for $20.00. Are there any other steps I can take to improve reception (type of antenna, cable etc?)If your signal strength is good then I'd say you've accomplished your goal. You are missing Ch4 for now, but later in the year you should be able to get WTTK. Are you getting WNDY? You might want to consider putting the silver sensor in the attic.

Yay, Manny!! Don't forget to tell all your neighbors that they, too, can escape those pesky cable bills.

NickIndy,
Which way is your antenna pointing?
Could it be that I did not run the setup correctly after connecting the antenna?

Sorry I've been a bit absent. My antenna is pointing right at the antenna farm at 79th/Township area. I get every digital channel that antennaweb says I should get. No amplifier or anything, sitting on top my tv on the north side of the 1st floor of a 2 story house. I would think you should be able to get everything without much trouble. I didn't do anything special, just plugged in my antenna and pointed it.

and sorry i didn't read further to see you already had it figured out. :)

Hi Tom,

Do you know what games WISH is going to carry on Thursday? I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to need to watch the Xavier game online. Thanks!

Hi Tom,

Do you know what games WISH is going to carry on Thursday? I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to need to watch the Xavier game online. Thanks!

http://www.titantv.com says the 6:00 game is Washington State vs. North Carolina, the 8:30 game is Louisville Cardinals vs. Tennessee Vols.
Not sure if that's right, but that's what it says.
You may be watching on the web!

Actually, those are Friday, but it looks like Washington St and Xavier will be on here. Time to use if my PS3's browser can get the feed off of NCAA.com, so i can still watch the game on my 56" set.

Who's here from WTHR? I've got a question about the below picture (please excuse its slight out-of-focus), which I took off the screen about ten minutes ago at the end of final Jeopardy.

The current time was 7:54 PM, which shows correctly at two locations.

BUT...WTHR's PSIP EIT (Event Information Table) at the bottom shows this 7:30-8:00 half hour time slot shouldn't be showing Jeopardy, but rather Eyewitness News at 5:30. !! (And that the upcoming 8:00-8:30 time slot will be Eyewitness News at 6:00, to be followed by NBC Nightly News in the 8:30-9:00 time slot.)

I'm not gonna excoriate anyone for this, as I'm probably one of very few who receive an OTA signal AND utilize the PSIP information that comes embedded in the ATSC signal.

But I'd sure like to learn/gain some insight into what procedures are involved in keeping a station's PSIP information accurate & current. (I should also ask if those who receive WTHR on cable or over satellite would have encountered this same schedule mis-information.) I'd appreciate any clarification.

Here's the pic (I hope)...http://picasaweb.google.com/theller09/WTHRPSIPMar2708/photo#5182583888524532130

Actually, those are Friday.....
Thursday night results also included :)
North Carolina 68, Washington St 47
Louisville 79, Tennessee 60

Now I finally get to watch an entire Xavier game in HD!

Ok. Here is the complete lineup of the digital channels I receive. Pl let me know if I am missing anything.

4.1 WTTW
6.1 WRTW-HD
6.2 6NEWS
8.1 WISH-HD
8.2 LWS
8.3 RADAR
13.1 WTHR-HD
13.2 SKYTRACK
20.1 WFYI-TV
20.2 WFYI-SD
20.3 WFYI -+
23.1 WND-HD
59.1 WXIN-DT
63.1 ION
63.2 QUBO
63.3 ION LIFE


There are 2 channels 21.9 and 21.10 that say something like "Signal Cannot be decoded". Don't know what to make of that. Am I missing anything important?

Are there other channels I should be receiving? 13.1 occasionally cuts out and comes right back up. I have the antenna pointed mostly east, but slightly north about 10 degrees.

All the analog channels except 8 (WISH) suck, so I have turned them off.

Ok. Here is the complete lineup of the digital channels I receive. Pl let me know if I am missing anything.

4.1 WTTW
6.1 WRTW-HD
6.2 6NEWS
8.1 WISH-HD
8.2 LWS
8.3 RADAR
13.1 WTHR-HD
13.2 SKYTRACK
20.1 WFYI-TV
20.2 WFYI-SD
20.3 WFYI -+
23.1 WND-HD
59.1 WXIN-DT
63.1 ION
63.2 QUBO
63.3 ION LIFE

Am I missing anything important? Are there other channels I should be receiving?

Looks pretty complete to me. Congratulations.

Now here's a challenge: see if your new HDTV presents the PSIP information (at minimum, the next three hour program schedule on each channel.)

I'm betting it won't, even though this information is part of the adopted ATSC standard and that broadcasters are required to include this program information within their signal. (Hint: although the broadcasters comply with this requirement, the television manufacturers have decided not to allow their customers to access this information. In effect, their tuners discard this information. Same with the clock signal -- I'll bet you had to manually set your HDTV's clock, right? Yet the ATSC standard -and the broadcast signal your set receives- delivers a clock signal once every second. All you have to do is tell your set what timezone you're in and whether you observe Daylight Savings Time. Again, as with the absence of PSIP info, the manufacturers are selling 'crippled' sets that don't deliver the clock signal to their customers. They're not delivering all the information in the signal.)

That's what's important that you're missing.

I'd direct any WTHR HD questions to Al G. His email address is alg@wthr.com. He's the man with the DTV info there.

I'd direct any WTHR HD questions to Al G. His email address is alg@wthr.com. He's the man with the DTV info there.

That's right, thanks. Al Grossniklaus (sp?)....

I'll just hopes he'll see this and offer comment on what goes into putting the PSIP info out. And whether cable & satellite purveyors supply their subscribers this same info but obtain it from a different source than the broadcasters.

(I'm also hoping other OTA viewers might become aware of the value & functionality designed into digital television that the manufacturers have decided to deny their customers by not making the ATSC standard's PSIP info accessible on the sets presently being sold in the market.)

OK.. I have a question for anyone around the lafayette area. I am thinking about installing an antenna on the chimney of a duplex that I'm renting and was thinking of using the y-chimney mount for a nice sturdy but semi temporary solution. The antenna will be a bit above the chimney on the 1 story house. The house is located on beck just east of 231. (southside of lafayette) I was wondering what luck people had with antennas from this area. I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions on what to look for in the antenna or amp, and also if anyone is able to pick up all the indy channels (abc,nbc,fox,cbs are the ones i care about). The install wont happen for about 3 more months, but I'm trying to plan ahead what I will install so i can look around for deals.

That's right, thanks. Al Grossniklaus (sp?)....

I'll just hopes he'll see this and offer comment on what goes into putting the PSIP info out. And whether cable & satellite purveyors supply their subscribers this same info but obtain it from a different source than the broadcasters.

(I'm also hoping other OTA viewers might become aware of the value & functionality designed into digital television that the manufacturers have decided to deny their customers by not making the ATSC standard's PSIP info accessible on the sets presently being sold in the market.)

I have a Sharp Aquos 37" HDTV. The only program info I get is the little box in the upper left hand corner of the screen. NO guide, NO time, NO event description. I can't find anything in the menu of the TV to get it. I am running ATT U-verse, but have am antenna outside, so getting Indy from Plainfield/Avon is not a problem.

Thanks

I have a Sharp Aquos 37" HDTV. The only program info I get is the little box in the upper left hand corner of the screen. NO guide, NO time, NO event description. I can't find anything in the menu of the TV to get it.

Yeah, kinda sucks doesn't it? Besides denying you information on the day's upcoming programming, denial of an on-screen guide means you can't program your television to automatically tune into a program 2-3 hours ahead. Those conveniences -anticipated by the ATSC standard and 'built into' the digital television signal- are not made available to you, despite laying out a significant sum of your money.


A/65C of the ATSC (Advanced Television Standards Committee) standard specifies:

"The following PSIP data shall be included in all ATSC-compliant Transport Streams to be transmitted via terrestrial broadcast:
(...)
• The System Time Table (STT), defining the current date and time of day.
• The first four Event Information Tables (EIT-0, EIT-1, EIT-2 and EIT-3) describing 12 hours of events (TV programs), each with a coverage of 3 hours, and including all of the virtual channels listed in the TVCT."

This can be found on the Web at http://www.atsc.org/standards/a65.html

I have taken digital photos of the PSIP info I get with my current setup (a Zenith HD-ready set that gets its ATSC signal through a Samsung set top box). And I have a picture of a new Sony HDTV set showing where the PSIP information would be displayed if the Sony made it accessible (which it didn't).

Here's a link to those pictures:http://picasaweb.google.com/theller09/ManufacturersOfNewHDTVsAreDenyingTheirCustomersThePSIPInfoSe tForthInTheATSCStandard

I think this situation (manufacturers selling sets that don't fully support the ATSC standard) needs to be examined and quickly remedied. With the February 2009 cut-off date for digital television rapidly approaching, it is unimaginable that the very manufacturers who lobbied for adoption of and transition to a digital broadcast standard in the U.S. would seek to sell U.S. consumers millions of pricey televisions that do not deliver the full advantages digital television enables.

I have written to the FCC (they reply that they don't regulate manufacturers, only broadcasters), to my senior U.S. Senator, to my congressman, to a couple of individuals who have had a role in developing the ATSC standard (including one who works at Sony). Thus far, I've had very little success in getting these individuals to 1) understand the issue; 2) appreciate its importance; and 3) do anything about it.

I'd appreciate the assistance of people like you who now realize they were 'short-sheeted' when they bought a pricey new HDTV. You're not alone -- *every* manufacturer has done this. You will not find a set on the shelves today that enables the user to utilize the PSIP information embedded in the ATSC signal.

You're not alone -- *every* manufacturer has done this. You will not find a set on the shelves today that enables the user to utilize the PSIP information embedded in the ATSC signal.

My new 56" Samsung purchased in December supports all of the features you detailed except possibly the programming grid. I get virtual channel numbers, date and time, current program title and description, program rating, etc. However, I have never seen a grid. I can see a channel's upcoming schedule (buried deep in some menus, just not in grid form).

It should be noted that my cable system does not appear to transmit all of the PSIP info on all their local HD channels. I get it on about half of them. I also have to press the "info" button on my remote to reveal the detailed PSIP.

I can receive one or two OTH signals with an indoor antenna and the rest with Comcast, formerly Insight, in New Castle/Anderson.

Alan:

Thanks for checking in -- and offering experience with a model that *does* make use of the PSIP info it receives.

What you describe IS the PSIP info; the grid is merely an added way it can be presented, rather than simply 'what's upcoming on any one particular channel'. While I'm happy you can get to the channel-specific info, I nonetheless am disappointed it's not easy to bring up - and PO'd to learn it isn't also presented as an all-channel (or even favorite channel) grid. The remote on my Samsung H260F set-top box allows me one-button, direct access to the channel-specific info; another button press then presents the grid.

Maybe manufacturers are adding this feature in only their most expensive sets, but if PSIP is a standard, why shouldn't all sets provide this advance? Maybe the profit margin gets pretty tight on the mass market sets that the manufacturers have decided to forego adding this feature, so cutting it out probably avoids paying some royalties to whomever devises a nice user interface for using the PSIP info the set receives.

It galls me that the manufacturers are skipping around this new ATSC standard. Consumers who learn of PSIP functionality will have to buy another device (or firmware upgrade) if they want to obtain the functionality the designers of ATSC built into it.

I called Samsung the other day to ask if there was a firmware upgrade on my unit or whether one was in the works. I was told "no", which is the answer I expected. Yet you would think that, in a highly-competitive market, the manufacturers would offer this functionality as a means of differentiating their product from others.

I'd be interested in learning what others have experienced...

The new CECB (Coupon Eligible Converter Box) receivers (SD only) display a simple guide with "Now" and "Next" show titles by using the "GUIDE" button. The "DISPLAY" button gives a full description of the current show. Pics attached. These pics produced by the Zenith DTT900.

Steve

My, cheap reconditioned, Vizio VU42LF, that I paid a grand for last summer, gets all of this. Info, guide,time.

I just checked it out;
WTHR - has no guide info
WISH - current and correct guide info
WRTV- Monday's daytime guide info?
PBS - current guide info

Thanks for the info, Steve & bwframe. Your responses provide more data points.

Let me share the letter the FCC's Office of Communications and Industry Information (kinda sounds like the Commission's office of "let me explain this to you") received in response to one I sent to Sen. Lugar on this PSIP matter. Senator Lugar's office forwarded it to me about two weeks ago, attached with a brief "let me know if there is anything more I can do" cover letter.

-------
February 22, 2008

The Honorable Richard G. Lugar
United States Senate
306 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510

Dear Senator Lugar:

Thank you for your letter on behalf of your constituent, Mr. Thomas A. Heller of Columbus, Indiana, concerning the capability of digital televisions sets to process and display Program and System Information Protocol ("PSIP") data embedded in digital television signals. I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

As Mr. Heller indicates in his correspondence, Commission rules require digital television broadcasters to comply with signal standards established by the Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC), including the standard that requires broadcasters to include PSIP data in their terrestrial broadcast streams (47 C.F.R. Sec. 73.682(d)). No federal statute or regulation, however, requires digital television sets to receive, process and display all information and data in the PSIP Tables.

As a general matter, the Commission's authority to regulate the consumer electronics industry is circumscribed, and the agency does not have explicit statutory authority to require that digital television sets process and display all PSIP information. The few rules the Commision has established in this area have been tied to an explicit directive in federal statute. For example, the All Channel Receiver Act of 1962 (47 U.S.C. 303(s)) directed the Commission to adopt rules requiring all television sets to have the capability to receive both VHF and UHF signals. More recently, this authority served as the basis for the adoption of rules that require all television sets be capable of receiving digital television signals (this mandate was upheld by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit in November 2003.) In addition, the Television Decoder Circuitry Act of 1990 (47 U.S.C. 303(u)) directed the Commission to implement rules that require television sets to be equipped to process and display closed captioning information, and Section 551 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (47 U.S.C. 303(x)) directed the Commission to establish rules requiring television sets to contain "V-chip" technology to enable blocking of programming accompanied by an age and content rating.

While the Commission does not have explicit statutory authority to require that digital television receivers process and display the data in the PSIP Tables, all electronics manufacturers have access to the PSIP data embedded in the broadcast stream. Thus, manufacturers may design and build digital television equipment that includes features that are supported by the PSIP data. For example, electronic program guides that are integrated into digital television equipment utilize the PSIP data to populate the guide with up-to-date channel listings and descriptions of upcoming programming.

I hope this information is helpful. Please do not hesitate to contact me if I may be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Michael S. Perko
Chief, Office of Communications and Industry Information
Media Bureau
Federal Communications Commission

The new CECB (Coupon Eligible Converter Box) receivers (SD only) display a simple guide with "Now" and "Next" show titles by using the "GUIDE" button. The "DISPLAY" button gives a full description of the current show. Pics attached. These pics produced by the Zenith DTT900.

Pretty thin layer of information, given what's all in the signal. I nonetheless appreciate that we shouldn't expect all that much from the coupon special converter boxes. (After all, they're only meant to put your analog set onto life-support, right?)

What IS displayed strikes me as little more than an on-screen reminder of a) what they're currently watching and b) what that station has up next. The networks have been increasingly sneaking the latter sort of 'alert' onto the screen for at least the last year; I don't know why they think they need yet another way to 'remind' viewers.

As a general matter, the Commission's authority to regulate the consumer electronics industry is circumscribed, and the agency does not have explicit statutory authority to require that digital television sets process and display all PSIP information.
What the FCC is doing is passing the buck back to Congress.

The FCC most certainly does have authority to regulate the television reception equipment sold in this country. Every television receiver sold in the U.S. must receive FCC Part 15 certification. The problem is that Part 15 does not require sets to process and display the PSIP information, so that feature is not part of the Part 15 certification procedure.

Either the FCC has to be persuaded to change Part 15 on their own (not likely) or Congress needs to pass legislation requiring the FCC to change Part 15 (not likely).

What the FCC is doing is passing the buck back to Congress.

Well, yes their letter could be read that way. But I read it more along the line of shooing away a fly. Certainly Lugar's cover letter relaying the FCC letter didn't indicate he was disturbed to learn a standard was being ignored by manufacturers. And, to give the FCC their due, they can't regulate anything the Congress hasn't directed them to regulate. DTV is sort of a new animal, in that the signal carries data beyond simply the luminescense and chromatic signal and an audio track. No TV manufacturer *could* discard any of the NTSC signal if they wanted to be successful in the market. With ATSC, they've apparently decided they don't need to include PSIP because it's easier to simply sell better PQ and SQ to consumers who aren't aware of what all is in the signal (including PSIP) and what value they can derive from it. I doubt more than 2-3% of the general public is even aware that digital transmission enables multicasting.


The FCC most certainly does have authority to regulate the television reception equipment sold in this country. Every television receiver sold in the U.S. must receive FCC Part 15 certification. The problem is that Part 15 does not require sets to process and display the PSIP information, so that feature is not part of the Part 15 certification procedure.

Either the FCC has to be persuaded to change Part 15 on their own (not likely) or Congress needs to pass legislation requiring the FCC to change Part 15 (not likely).


Yet I have read maybe two weeks ago that a hearing in either a Senate or House committee (perhaps even a joint committee) on the DTV transition was recently postponed and that Congress is assembling more information about transition - and questions to the Commission. I believe all five commissioners were to appear. I wonder if this PSIP short-sheeting could be/become one of the items to be discussed. It could become a major embarassment to some powerful interests if it was.

Hello all. New member here, great forum!

I just setup an antenna and HD receiver on the southside of Indy and everything is great except WFYI (20.1). The signal is good but when it is displayed the audio and video stutters a lot. Other HD channels come in just fine without any problems.

I've tried tuning the antenna but it doesn't change anything and honestly, I'm getting a perfect digital signal in according to my tuner.

Anyone have any opinions on whether this is a signal problem or a hardware problem on my end?

Also, does anyone know if PBS is broadcasting an HD stream that is much more "higher def" (requires more processing power) than the other local channels?

Thanks.

My setup: SquareShooter -> HDHomeRun Networked Tuner -> MythTV box (Intel Core2 6420 @ 2.13GHz, 2GB RAM, GeForce 7100GS, even on PBS the CPU is at 20-30%)

Hello all. New member here, great forum!

I just setup an antenna and HD receiver on the southside of Indy and everything is great except WFYI (20.1). The signal is good but when it is displayed the audio and video stutters a lot. Other HD channels come in just fine without any problems.

I've tried tuning the antenna but it doesn't change anything and honestly, I'm getting a perfect digital signal in according to my tuner.

Anyone have any opinions on whether this is a signal problem or a hardware problem on my end?

Also, does anyone know if PBS is broadcasting an HD stream that is much more "higher def" (requires more processing power) than the other local channels?

Thanks.

My setup: SquareShooter -> HDHomeRun Networked Tuner -> MythTV box (Intel Core2 6420 @ 2.13GHz, 2GB RAM, GeForce 7100GS, even on PBS the CPU is at 20-30%)

My bet is that in your location, the WFYI signal is Multi-Pathing (bouncing off buildings, terrain, etc). Your Terk Square Shooter, sorry to say, is not a very well regarded antenna, especially in handling mult-paths. In my location (S Castleton area), WTHR caused me problems until I bought an inexpensive Radio Shack U-35 uhf and put in my attic. All stations 100% (including WISH which is vhf).

I'd direct any WTHR HD questions to Al G. His email address is alg@wthr.com. He's the man with the DTV info there.

Bubba, here's Al's reply:

-----------

We keep an eye on our PSIP EPG EIT times which initially were correct
following the recent DST change, and are aware they became off sometime
since and have been working on this. We've spent a good deal of time
working ourselves and with the manufacturers of the numerous software
programs and computers involved who have verified that all DST 'patches'
have been applied correctly and all software is current. So far none of
the manufacturers have been able to figure out where and in which
software program the time discrepancy lies. I finally hand typed time
corrections in the program schedule file myself and then had to reboot
the entire PSIP system at a low viewing time so that my manually
corrected program guide times are now airing properly while we continue
to pursue isolating and fixing the early DST software glitch.

To answer your question about how PSIP is generated and the EPG/EIT
populated, the program schedule is generated offline in a legacy
computer system which our programming department uses to construct and
generate the station's program grid. For whatever reason - probably so
it could have been used for network origination - this system references
UTC rather than local time. This UTC based schedule is sent as a text
file to an online holding folder.

Our original PSIP computer then ingests this file and processes it into
the EPG. This PSIP computer also has its own time reference which is
based on local time, but interacts with the DTV encoder which has its
own separate UTC based internal clock, so the PSIP computer has to
calculate local program times from the UTC based program grid to
generate PSIP and populate the tables including EIT. For everything in
the EIT to be correct time wise everything in these three separate but
interdependent systems has to precisely line up and be absolutely
correct. Enter early U.S. Daylight Savings Time which is not in sync
with UTC and which, even though we've applied all vendors' early DST
software 'patches' to all of these computers, has still sometimes gotten
the time references out of alignment.

We will soon install a brand new program grid computer with an entirely
new software program in our programming department and we will also put
a new state of the art encoder with an integrated PSIP generator online
to replace our first generation PSIP computer. I believe this will
address and eliminate any issues with semiannual EIT vs. early
EDST/EST/UTC.

You are welcome to share this on the Forum.

Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering and Operations
WTHR NBC
Indianapolis

With these numbers:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6711/hd2ch8.png

I was looking at the Antennas Direct DB4, but that would just been more powerful than needed. I may try an indoor antenna first (Terk HDTVa). That would be less work, but I'm not sure what type of range it has. I've tried to find more info, but I haven't found any reliable source. The one which worries me the most is WISH 8.1. On their wiki page the transmitter power is listed as 19.5 kW (digital). While WTHR is at 1000 kW (digital), WRTV is at 898 kW (digital), and WXIN is at 700 kW (digital). Maybe I am just misunderstanding what that means though...

I can't try anything yet. I'm waiting until a move before purchasing anything...I don't want to move it again. It should be the first two weeks of May or so. My wife told me, "Get whatever you want..." and I still can't believe it. Here's the lineup:

Sony 52xbr4 LCD
Sony STR-DG820 A/V reciever (released 4/30/2008)
Playstation 3 - for Blu-ray more than anything else
plus various other odds and ends...

I have Dish and will be upgrading to their HD package, but I will need the OTA locals. I'm sure I'll keep the antenna even after HD locals are added because I'm sure they are of better quality that way.

My bet is that in your location, the WFYI signal is Multi-Pathing (bouncing off buildings, terrain, etc). Your Terk Square Shooter, sorry to say, is not a very well regarded antenna, especially in handling mult-paths. In my location (S Castleton area), WTHR caused me problems until I bought an inexpensive Radio Shack U-35 uhf and put in my attic. All stations 100% (including WISH which is vhf).

Well, can't it explain it but PBS-HD is now displaying just fine. I basically deleted then re-added my tuners into myth. I have no idea why that would make a difference...

As for the antenna, I'm happy with it. Its the Winegard SS-2000 model and it works very well from my balcony. I get all the locals including WISH. I live in an apartment so a big setup like the CM4228 is not an option.

I know you all are busy, but I posted up on the top of this page (post #4721) and I wondered if anyone had any useful information. I have also been given the "get anything you want" approval from the wife and know I'll have to get an outside (large) antenna. Its planning to be mounted about 10 feet above the peak of the 1 story house. What has been the success rate of getting ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX from lafayette (47909).

I know you all are busy, but I posted up on the top of this page (post #4721) and I wondered if anyone had any useful information. I have also been given the "get anything you want" approval from the wife and know I'll have to get an outside (large) antenna. Its planning to be mounted about 10 feet above the peak of the 1 story house. What has been the success rate of getting ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX from lafayette (47909).


Burton: I'm unaware of encountering any folks on this thread with any direct knowledge of the Lafayette situation. So as not to delay your efforts, you may want to pursue additional avenues of inquiry. Contact local station engineers, seek out an experienced antenna guy, ask around Purdue, etc. Keep us posted, though -- you may become the 'go-to' guy for Lafayette!

But don't be discouraged. There's enough knowledge here to guide you & offer advice on the general parameters you'll need to be aware of. So don't hesitate to keep asking. It took me about two months to succeed in my efforts here in Columbus (about 50 miles from the Indy towers). I could not have succeeded without this forum -- but it did take awhile. Good luck.

Well alright. I know there is a good electronics store in town and when i get my new house in July I'll be experimenting with some new equiptment. As for the indy towers. Is there a map that has the tower locations, channel affiliation and transmitter power? Do i need to look all of them up individually on wiki?

Well alright. I know there is a good electronics store in town and when i get my new house in July I'll be experimenting with some new equiptment. As for the indy towers. Is there a map that has the tower locations, channel affiliation and transmitter power? Do i need to look all of them up individually on wiki?

For the most part, they're up in the NW corner of Indy. Use antennaweb to find the channels, network affiliation, transmit power, coordinates and location & bearing from your location.

Well alright. I know there is a good electronics store in town and when i get my new house in July I'll be experimenting with some new equiptment. As for the indy towers. Is there a map that has the tower locations, channel affiliation and transmitter power? Do i need to look all of them up individually on wiki?

There are high spots and low spots around Lafayette that affect how well you will be able to receive Indianapolis channels. Here's an example of WTHR's coverage around zip code 47909, looking toward Indianapolis...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=106564&stc=1&d=1207208617



The number of channels available to you will depend on your location and altitude. You should check the exact address or coordinates of the new house using either antennaweb (http://antennaweb.org/) or tvfool (http://www.tvfool.com/) to see how many channels are within reach.

Best regards,
Andy

What is the difference between the different tier of channels. For instance channel 49 is FoodTV as is channel 1049 as well as 1913.

49 - Food Network
1049 - Food-DS
1913 - Food-FT

These are labels that you get on the channels. 1049 and 1913 tell you to receive the channel call customer care.

At first I thought maybe they were simulcast version of the channel in Digital where 49 is broadcast in analog.

Looking a little closer the channels 1001-1073 are duplicates of channels 01-73. I can actually tune to HGTV on 70 and 1070.

Any ideas?

Any suggestions for picking up WISH-DT 8.1 CBS? I live in the Carmel/Zionsville area and able to pick up every channel except for 8.1. I'm using the Samsung DTB-H260F to pickup OTA HD. Then again, I am using a paperclip as an antenna =) Just thought it was odd that according to AntennaWeb that 8.1 is the same distance and on the same compass heading as pretty much every other station but I can't pick it up. Can I be fairly confident that simply adding an actual antenna would allow me to pickup 8.1? I was thinking of picking up a Terk TV5 antenna. Here are my AntennaWeb search results...

Any suggestions for picking up WISH-DT 8.1 CBS? I live in the Carmel/Zionsville area and able to pick up every channel except for 8.1.

I'd say your antenna isn't sensitive to VHF. WISH is presently the *only* Indy channel transmitting its digital signal in the VHF range. All others are in UHF frequencies.

You're so close in that you shouldn't need two antennas. You should be able to find a UHF antenna that also performs well for the "upper" VHF channels (7 and higher). I believe the Channel Master 4228 is one, but maybe someone will chime in here to confirm.

I'm in Columbus (50 miles from the towers) and I had to install a separate VHF antenna to pull in WISH. It's paired it with an UHF antenna and runs through a pre-amp. I use the same Samsung set top box as you.

Which antenna would be recommended over the other?

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14122&langId=-1

or

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14204&langId=-1

Which antenna would be recommended over the other?

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14122&langId=-1

or

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14204&langId=-1

This one. I would not advise Terk.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ZHDTV1
If you want to pick up WTTV, you would need to go with an outdoor, like a Channel Master 4221

Anyone else with Comcast notice the new HD channels? I've seen Science Channel, AMC HD, and Animal Plannet HD recently added.

Which antenna would be recommended over the other?

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14122&langId=-1

or

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14204&langId=-1

I live 5.5 miles NE of the WISH tower, near Carmel. I currently have the Zenith Silver Sensor (UHF-only antenna) hooked up to a DTV receiver and I'm barely getting WISH-DT-9, as there is barely enough signal for the receiver to decode. Meanwhile, I'm 37 miles N of the WTTV tower and WTTV-DT-48 is coming in fine.

I'm making these comments because the first unit you posted looks virtually like the Zenith Silver Sensor which is for UHF frequencies. The wavelengths of VHF frequencies are longer than those of UHF frequencies, so the elements on the antenna need to be longer to capture the signal. I'm not sure how Audiovox can label this as a VHF antenna.

I've never seen nor used the second antenna you posted, so I won't comment on that one.

At 6 miles from the WISH tower, I'd most likely recommend something like this http://www.hhgregg.com/ProductDetail.asp?SID=n&ProductID=9155 or this http://www.hhgregg.com/ProductDetail.asp?SID=n&ProductID=19065
These type of antennas allow you to adjust the length of the dipole antenna portion for VHF channels 2-13 for maximum signal strength. And after Feb. 17, 2009, WTHR-DT will be moving to VHF channel 13 (from UHF channel 46).

Steve

What is the difference between the different tier of channels. For instance channel 49 is FoodTV as is channel 1049 as well as 1913.

49 - Food Network
1049 - Food-DS
1913 - Food-FT

These are labels that you get on the channels. 1049 and 1913 tell you to receive the channel call customer care.

At first I thought maybe they were simulcast version of the channel in Digital where 49 is broadcast in analog.

Looking a little closer the channels 1001-1073 are duplicates of channels 01-73. I can actually tune to HGTV on 70 and 1070.

Any ideas?

The 1000+ channels are digital while the lower channel numbers are analog. I've noticed over the past several months that they (BHN) keep adding more digital channels.

Steve

Ok. Here is the complete lineup of the digital channels I receive. Pl let me know if I am missing anything.

4.1 WTTW
6.1 WRTW-HD
6.2 6NEWS
8.1 WISH-HD
8.2 LWS
8.3 RADAR
13.1 WTHR-HD
13.2 SKYTRACK
20.1 WFYI-TV
20.2 WFYI-SD
20.3 WFYI -+
23.1 WND-HD
59.1 WXIN-DT
63.1 ION
63.2 QUBO
63.3 ION LIFE


There are 2 channels 21.9 and 21.10 that say something like "Signal Cannot be decoded". Don't know what to make of that. Am I missing anything important?

Are there other channels I should be receiving? 13.1 occasionally cuts out and comes right back up. I have the antenna pointed mostly east, but slightly north about 10 degrees.
Well actually.
There's 40.1 and 40.2 not all religious stuff - actually has some good ol' tv shows(tower located in the tower farm), and 42.1, 42.2, 42.3, 42.4, 42.5 (tower located in trafalgar)