I get limited basic cable TV service from Comcast (no cable box) in West Lafayette. This means I get channels 4-23 and also some HD channels via clear QAM.

As has been mentioned in some earlier posts, the channel number assignments for the HD channels have lately been changing often. Here is what I get right now:

6-1 WRTV/ABC
6-2 news
8-1 WISH/CBS
8-2 weather
18-1 WLFI/CBS
20-1 WFYI/PBS
20-3 WFYI+
29-1 WTTK/CW
59-1 WXIN/FOX
106-11 RP106-11? (spanish language programming?)

That's all the clear HD programming my TV can find. Noticeably absent is WTHR/NBC which used to be on 13-1. A rather recent addition is the local CBS affiliate WLFI.

I tried calling Comcast; they insist that I need their digital cable box and pay extra to get any HD programming and since I don't have one, I must be doing something sneaky. I couldn't convince them otherwise! They don't provide any official channel lineup that I can find.

Thanks in advance for helpful comments.

Thanks in advance for helpful comments.
Helpful.... I'll try to keep that in mind :D

Call back, again and again until you get a CR that has a clue. I'm not kidding or being intentionally mean, but they have more than a few CR's that don't know about what's really being delivered and how.

Back when we had Insight for service, I had to call three times to get someone who knew what a CableCARD was.

As posted at Indiana Airwaves.com (http://www.indianaairwaves.com/Home_Page.php)

Many TV stations are filing extension of time to complete construction authorized pursuant to a permit for a new DTV station with the FCC. They include WFFT-DT, FT Wayne, WTWO-DT, Terre Haute and WFXW-DT, Terre Haute.

Following our studio-to-transmitter link failure during my vacation, we were able to go back this past Friday night and switch things around some more, thru the use of some loaner equipment.

Upshot is that WNDY-HD is actually back in HD (Yea!)

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS / and so many more!

We also have a piece of gear which will allow up-mixing of the newscast audio. This will restore the center channel for dialog, instead of the L and R which is there now. It'll be a couple of weeks, but it's coming.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

We also have a piece of gear which will allow up-mixing of the newscast audio. This will restore the center channel for dialog, instead of the L and R which is there now. It'll be a couple of weeks, but it's coming.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

Thank you. I had noticed the anchors sounded like they were in the corner of my room.

Looks like Brighthouse dropped WISHTV and all the LIN channels.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081003/LOCAL18/810030480

My question is how much do WRTV and WTHR get from Brighthouse?

Looks to me that WISHTV is in the worse position if Brighthouse doesn't pay the other broadcasters.

I have RG6 cable from my upstairs attic to my basement PC attached hd tuner card. I haven't gotten an hd antenna, because I used QAM over Bright House's cable in Carmel. Looks like I'll have to use the ATSC part of the card and am wondering what would be a good indoor hd antenna to get.

The Colts play Sunday, so I'd like to be ready for that and The Unit, Sunday night. Thanks for any recommendations...

I know Indy is an AT&T area. But I'm wondering if anybody thinks Verizon will ever come to town with FIOS? Any rumblings about it out there?

Not the sort of news you expect to see about a TV station (WXIN 59 Fox):

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081004/NEWS02/810040481

I have RG6 cable from my upstairs attic to my basement PC attached hd tuner card. I haven't gotten an hd antenna, because I used QAM over Bright House's cable in Carmel. Looks like I'll have to use the ATSC part of the card and am wondering what would be a good indoor hd antenna to get.

The Colts play Sunday, so I'd like to be ready for that and The Unit, Sunday night. Thanks for any recommendations...

I am in Noblesville and I use a low-end (and quite small) Channel Master 3016 I picked up from Lowes. With a decent preamp I am even able to get 4-1 (WTTV Bloomington) and split the signal between a PC tuner and 3 DirecTV receivers.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC3016

It looks like WTHR got the audio/video very, very close on the noon boradcast. I still think it is a few milliseconds off. The PQ seems very, very good and the transitions between HD and upconverted SD is seemlesss.

Dredging up an old post but it may have relevance in that I have been experiencing issues with Ch. 13 programming for the past several months specific to the audio and video not in sync. I have a Dish 722 receiver. Anyone else or is this isolated to my setup?

Thanks,

I have a friend who is wanting to know when her daytime CBS soaps will be going HD. I think they are on WISH-TV: As the World Turns, Young and the Restless and One Life to Live. (I could be wrong on the station, though.)

Young and The Restless already is in HD.

Haven't seen anything on ATWT from CBS; One life to live is not a CBS show.

Most recent additions to CBS' lineup in HD are The Price is Right, 60 Minutes, and Survivor.

Probably old news, but WRTV news is going HD soon. I saw a promo about it and also found this:

http://paulpoteet.com/blog/2008/08/03/secret-hd-preview/

Nevermind the video, but the info is true.

All the info is here:

http://rtv6blogs.com/rtv6_6newshd/

Not much is new since my last blog. - Just more training and rehearsals. I just wanted to get in touch to remind all of you who read this blog to be sure to watch us as we premiere our first high definition newscast at 6pm on Sunday, October 12th. I’ll get back with you soon after that broadcast, but don’t forget to mark October 12th on your calendar! (On second thought, maybe you don’t have to mark it on your calendar because you’d be watching channel 6 news anyway, right???!!!!) I’ll talk to you soon. Mark

Game is NOT being broadcast in HD by WTHI--is this a local or national thing --You all in Indy getting it in HD?

never minfd--now is HD--must be difficulties at the stadium.

May have been a problem on WTHI's end. WISH in Indianapolis had the game in HD from the opening kickoff.

I'm posting this question for my son who lives in Fishers. Last winter, he had U-verse and was able to receive all the Chicago Blackhawk hockey games that were broadcast on Comcast Chicago on U-Verse. Now, this season, they are being blacked out....however, if you live in Indianapolis, they are NOT blacked out (this happened to him last Friday and again last night - he checked with friends who have U-Verse in both Indy and Fishers). He has contacted ATT CS and gotten nowhere...all they say is that it's an NHL decision. But it just makes no sense that it would be blacked out in Fishers but not in Indy, especially since he received the games fine last season. This is VERY frustrating for him since he (and I) are both huge Blackhawks fans. Is there anyone here who might be able to help? Thanks!

Even though I'm not in the Brighthouse service area (or any other cable provider) I sent a letter to WISH asking some questions about their negotiations and the reasons for the lapse in service. Scott Hainey replied thusly:

Thanks for your e-mail. You asked some great questions. Unfortunately, we do not know the details of the other local stations' agreements. However, here is a letter/blog from the general manager at WRTV, Channel 6 and his views on this issue. It may give you more insight as to our competition's position



http://rtv6blogs.com/rtv6_gm/2008/10/04/brighthouse-not-looking-so-bright/



There are 15 television stations in 11 cities currently off the Bright House (Time Warner) cable system. I got a call of another station last week who fears they'll be facing this soon too.



Please know we too are very disappointed with the outcome of the negotiations thus far with Bright House Networks. It is especially frustrating since we have successfully reached deals, without issue, with every other cable, satellite and telecommunications company in our area, including Comcast, DISH Networks, Direct TV and AT&T.



Yes... Bright House claims we are asking its customers to pay for something that's free. That is simply not the case. We do transmit our programming over the airwaves so viewers can get our signals for free via an antenna. That does not mean, however, that Bright House, one of the largest cable companies in the United States, has the right to take our signal for free and resell it to you for a profit. The agreement we are working to achieve totals less than 10% of what they pay to carry channels you may not even watch.



Regarding DISH, they had a satellite blow up several months ago which delayed getting our high definition signal, and to my knowledge everyone else's, on their system. We are ready to go when they are. I believe that satellite's replacement will be fully functional in November.



It has been us that have been proactive in the communications with Bright House. Why would we not want our television stations to be on their cable system?




Bright House knew this contract expired on October 2, 2008. We have tried for several months now to reach out and secure this agreement with Bright House. Federal law prohibits Bright House from broadcasting our signals without an agreement, thus the urgency on our part. However, they did not send their first serious proposal until the afternoon of October 2nd; the date the contract was to expire.



Please know that we are still actively negotiating an agreement with Bright House.



Regards,


Scott Hainey
Director of Creative Services
LIN Television, Indianapolis
WISH-TV / MyNDY / WIIH / LWS
1950 North Meridian Street
Indianapolis, IN 46202
(317) 956-8530
(317) 956-8898 (fax)
www.wishtv.com
www.MyNDYtv.com
www.indyunivision.com

Even though I'm not in the Brighthouse service area (or any other cable provider) I sent a letter to WISH asking some questions about their negotiations and the reasons for the lapse in service. Scott Hainey replied thusly:


Thanks very much for posting this. I'm very interested in knowing the latest on this issue.

However, here is a letter/blog from the general manager at WRTV, Channel 6 and his views on this issue.
And in that blog, the WRTV GM never admits that his station is being compensated by the cable/satellite carriers. He hints at it with statements like:
But, I’m a strong believer that anyone who takes a product and resells it should compensate the rights holder, in this case, LIN-TV.
and
And other resellers do have deals to pay the broadcast stations.
But he never comes out and says what WRTV gets from the carriers.

What makes what one company pays another for rights and priveleges confidential information ?

The info on DISH was great, thanks.

Pros and cons of their news teams notwithstanding, I am dissapointed with one silly issue...SD sidebars, or the left and right fillers when showing SD video, usually recorded with SD field camers. Channel 8 chose black with "WISH" in white. Still reminds me too much of NON HD. Worst still, WRTV has no filler. Just black bars. WTHR with their blue fill still looks the most professional/slick. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed it.

Pros and cons of their news teams notwithstanding, I am dissapointed with one silly issue...SD sidebars, or the left and right fillers when showing SD video, usually recorded with SD field camers. Channel 8 chose black with "WISH" in white. Still reminds me too much of NON HD. Worst still, WRTV has no filler. Just black bars. WTHR with their blue fill still looks the most professional/slick. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed it.

I doubt you'll get consensus. Personally I'd prefer just black.

At least we're not getting stretch-o-vision anymore, as we were a few years ago... :)

I'm a DirecTV customer in the Indianapolis DMA. I have an HR-21 receiver. At approximately 6:00am this morning, I lost my local network channels (WRTV 6 ABC, WISH 8 CBS, WTHR 13 NBC, WXIN 59 Fox). Around 7:00am, I did a red button reset and got the channels back. Anybody else experience this?

I'm a DirecTV customer in the Indianapolis DMA. I have an HR-21 receiver. At approximately 6:00am this morning, I lost my local network channels (WRTV 6 ABC, WISH 8 CBS, WTHR 13 NBC, WXIN 59 Fox). Around 7:00am, I did a red button reset and got the channels back. Anybody else experience this?

DirecTV pushed out a software update last night. I'm sure that was the cause of the problem.

I got the software update yesterday and the receiver rebooted then. Yesterday evening, everything worked fine. This morning, the receiver recorded a local news broadcast at 5:30am. At 6:00am, I lost the HD locals. It's possible that the software update and the loss of the locals are related. However, the symptoms seem disconnected. Nonetheless, I forced a reboot this morning and got the locals back. Just wondering if anyone else had the same experience.

I got the software update yesterday and the receiver rebooted then. Yesterday evening, everything worked fine. This morning, the receiver recorded a local news broadcast at 5:30am. At 6:00am, I lost the HD locals. It's possible that the software update and the loss of the locals are related. However, the symptoms seem disconnected. Nonetheless, I forced a reboot this morning and got the locals back. Just wondering if anyone else had the same experience.

Yeah, there's a thread in the satelliteguys.us DirecTV forum -- DirecTV has had some issues the last week or two where they've had to push out emergency software updates to address this freezing/rebooting issue.

I don't have a freezing/rebooting issue. The receiver rebooted normally yesterday after the update was pushed out to it. In the 10 months that I've had the HR21 receiver, it's only frozen once, maybe twice.

The issue is that this morning, I lost some of the local channels. It was not a "freeze". When I tried to tune to the locals, I got the screen saying that I was not subscribed to those channels.

WTIU-DT, Bloomington, recently received FCC approval for a post-transition power increase from 224 kW to 1000 kW. http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101251186&formid=340&fac_num=66536

In Terre Haute, WTWO-DT and WFXW-DT recently requested more time to complete their full-power projects. They were scheduled to be full power by the middle of November. Now the stations are telling the FCC they will be full power by 1/1/09.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101272990&formid=387&fac_num=20426

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101273028&formid=387&fac_num=65247

I just heard that LIN TV and Bright House Networks has reached an agreement. Their signal will back on soon!

I just heard that LIN TV and Bright House Networks has reached an agreement. Their signal will back on soon!

Story from WISH...... http://www2.wishtv.com/dpp/wildcard_2/wildcard_27/Bright_House_Customer_Information

I just checked and the stations are back on via Bright House-Carmel.

I know that a lot of people with high-end subscriptions have cancelled Bright House and switched to satellite. I hope it was worth it to Bright House!

It appears that WRTV may an analog to digital test tonight at 6.

UPDATE: I justed called them to confirm this. They will be performing a test during both the 6:00 and 7:00 news broadcasts tonight.

It appears that WRTV may run some sort of analog to digital test tonight at 6.

UPDATE: I justed called them to confirm this. They will be performing a test during both the 6:00 and 7:00 news broadcasts tonight.

Yea, I think they're going to shut-down the analog signal, so people that are still using that to receive will see snow and know they need to go spend some money or do without TV come next February. :)

Yea, I think they're going to shut-down the analog signal, so people that are still using that to receive will see snow and know they need to go spend some money or do without TV come next February. :)
I'm not really sure why I worded it that way...I made it sound like I don't know what the test is or what it is for. :) Oh well...I've read about these tests in other cities. Now it's our turn.

Is it me or is there lots of pixelation or lower resolution when NBC swaps camera angles during the Colts game?

Is it me or is there lots of pixelation or lower resolution when NBC swaps camera angles during the Colts game?
Nope, it's not just you. The good news is that NBC and their affiliates are making some changes/improvements in the very near future...maybe this month or next, but certainly before the Super Bowl. They will be going from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4.

This is off topic, but here goes. Can anyone tell me if after the digital cut over, and after the stations return to their VHF channels (for those that do), is there, by chance, going to be any analog audio broadcast? The reason I ask is I have a shower radio on which I have grown accustomed to listening to WTHR's morning news while showering, and I hate having to change habits :)

Thanks!

Ken

This is off topic, but here goes. Can anyone tell me if after the digital cut over, and after the stations return to their VHF channels (for those that do), is there, by chance, going to be any analog audio broadcast? The reason I ask is I have a shower radio on which I have grown accustomed to listening to WTHR's morning news while showering, and I hate having to change habits :)

Thanks!

Ken
I don't know about WTHR, but WRTV is on 87.7 FM...and will not longer be available after February.

WRTV: A
WTHR: B+
WISH: F-

WISH....what are you guys thinking? Stretch-o-vision? Take a look at the wonderful job being done by WRTV. They are running the ticker at the bottom, while giving us the entire network 16:9 image reduced above. The WISH HD election coverage...failure.

For those of you who used to be Insight customers (serviced by the office in Anderson) and are now Comcast customers....

As you are probably already aware, MOJO HD will cease to exist as of December 1st, 2008. Some providers are replacing it with something else. For instance, TWC is replacing MOJO with MGM HD. Not Comcast. No. Those of us in former Insight country who conitue to lag behind the Indianapolis Comcast market will get something different. The combo channel of VS/Golf HD will split and of them will take over the slot.

I believe that the folks in Indy are getting USA, TLC, Discovery, HD On Demand, and a few others. I don't really mind waiting. I just wish they would provide more info locally to customers.

AAAUUUGHGHGH!!!
I know that America's Funniest Home Videos is important and all, but did ABC really have to chop off the end of the Sprint Cup race to switch to that?

Did anyone else experience bad reception on WISH after the Colts game? Seemed to start as soon as they switched away from football to their regular programming. Checked this morning, and seems ok now (no pixelation).

For about a week, have not been able to pick up WTTV (Trafalgar) from Indy north. Anyone else?

Did anyone else experience bad reception on WISH after the Colts game? Seemed to start as soon as they switched away from football to their regular programming. Checked this morning, and seems ok now (no pixelation).

Hmm... no... 60 Minutes recorded fine for me.

I was having a bunch of trouble trying to get WXIN in today. I am up in Lafayette and I was getting WISH, WRTV, and WTHR. I usually only have with WTHR and/or WISH during rain showers but WXIN is usually stuck at 100%. Were they having trouble today or was it just a bad signal for some reason on my end?

For about a week, have not been able to pick up WTTV (Trafalgar) from Indy north. Anyone else?

That's interesting because I JUST started to get WTTV on a regular basis on my indoor-only setup. I was thinking that they maybe had recently boosted power. I'm on the NE Marion/SE Hamilton county line.

That's interesting because I JUST started to get WTTV on a regular basis on my indoor-only setup. I was thinking that they maybe had recently boosted power. I'm on the NE Marion/SE Hamilton county line.
I have a Dish receiver, which are not the best tuners, at least as compared to the Tv's. Maybe that's why we are "opposites". I live near Lawrence N so we must be close.

I would venture to say that some of you are experiencing reception issues courtesy of the crowded airwaves (analog and digital) and Mother Nature. Between the ever-changing weather conditions over the past couple of weeks, plus UHF reception changes due to the falling leaves (plus factor in some multi-path issues, especially in the immediate Indy metro area, with or without the leaves http://wkar.org/digitalguy/antenna.php ) and reception conditions can change from good to bad or from bad to good very quickly.

Burton in Lafayette....At the same time you posted last night, I was receiving city-grade DTV signals from Cincinnati (@ 103 miles) at my Indy north location (just south of Carmel), plus tropospheric conditions in the area had DTV signals up and down from Louisville and Dayton as well. Because of the somewhat southeast direction you would have your antenna aimed for Indy stations, I'm speculating that WRGT-45, Dayton, a very powerful station with a very tall tower, was mixing and interfering with the WXIN-DT 45 signal. At your distance, any analog interference like that can really cause decoding issues for your receiver. I wasn't paying much attention to distant analog signals last night, but between 11 p.m. and midnight I received WVAH-DT 19, Charleston, WV @ 250 miles, WOWK-DT 47, Huntington, WV @ 232 miles, WKMR-DT 15, Morehead, KY @ 190 miles and WPBO-DT 43, Portsmouth, OH @ 183 miles. Now this morning, as I type this post, reception conditions outside of the local area are really poor.

When tropospheric enhancement in the area elevates the signals from Cincinnati (more likely late night, overnight and early morning hours) it is not uncommon for WCET-48, Cincinnati (PBS) to be quite strong in the Indy area. When this occurs, it can definitely interfere with WTTV-DT 48's signal. At times, using my outdoor antenna setup, I'm able to completely null WTTV-DT and receive WCET's analog signal.

TV reception is not an exact science and YMMV (your mileage may vary).

Steve

I would venture to say that some of you are experiencing reception issues courtesy of the crowded airwaves (analog and digital)....

So Steve, If I understand correctly from your post that come February when analog transmissions cease that current digital reception "could/may/will" improve due to the current overcrowding and analog interference issues? Roughly speaking, will a marginal signal today become good and a good signal become better?? Thanks.

Alex

So Steve, If I understand correctly from your post that come February when analog transmissions cease that current digital reception "could/may/will" improve due to the current overcrowding and analog interference issues? Roughly speaking, will a marginal signal today become good and a good signal become better?? Thanks.

Alex

Alex,

Theoretically the answer to both of your questions would be yes. With the number of full-power analog stations going off the air by Feb. 18, this will definitely help the overcrowding and in some cases the short-spacing between co-channel stations. This will not solve ALL issues, but it should minimize a number of them. In my comments above, those two analog stations (WCET-48 and WRGT-45) will not be around to cause any analog interference with local WTTV-DT 48 and WXIN-DT 45.

Steve

But, you shouldn't expect the shut down of analog stations and the repacking all digital television stations beneath 700 MHz (ch. 51) to magically make indoor antennas begin working reliably where they currently aren't.

Does any one know if CBS is sending the TVGOS guide data on the digital channels?

Thanks,

My mom back in Terre Haute is getting DirecTV. Since she lives in the 47802 zip code, I know she is eligible for distant network service from ABC, CW, and PBS. Does anyone on here have those in the Terre Haute area? Do you know what affiliates they send to you?

But, you shouldn't expect the shut down of analog stations and the repacking all digital television stations beneath 700 MHz (ch. 51) to magically make indoor antennas begin working reliably where they currently aren't.

George,

What is significant about above/below the 700 MHz frequency in reference to your statement? Just curious. Thanks.

George,

What is significant about above/below the 700 MHz frequency in reference to your statement? Just curious. Thanks.
Didn't an earlier poster insinuate that DTV reception should improve post-sunset (where analog carriers are gone, and digital stations maximize their power, and channels 52 and above are gone, too, except for LP/translators that is)?

Has any Direct TV customer with local HD through satellite noticed alot of pixelization on WTHR? I noticed quite a bit in the last 2 days. The signal straight off the air looks great. Also, the other locals look fine.

Just before noon I noticed that WIPB-DT 52 (49.1 & 49.2), Muncie is sending out a very, very weak signal which is not nearly strong enough to lock. At 40 miles, the normal signal is strong enough to lock with the antenna aimed in almost any direction. I guess the transmitter could be experiencing some technical problems or the power was intentionally reduced to start the needed adjustments for the upcoming switch from ch. 52 to ch. 23. This FCC filing might explain what's going on today.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101273298&formid=387&fac_num=3646

I couldn't find any low-signal related comments on their website.

The FCC filing indicates they will be operating on only half of their transmitter beginning in November and will not resume full power until April. I would guess that is the reason for the loss of signal.

I am now receiving 0 signal from them on my rabbit ears in New Castle. I used to have enough signal to watch them.

Finally, at 3:02 p.m., the Colts score a touchdown and regain the lead. And just before the touchdown, WIPB-DT 52 popped up again at what appears to be full power with signal strength over 90%.

Meanwhile, 37 miles south of my location, WCLJ-DT 56 is off the air. This station is usually near 100% signal strength. Sister station WCLJ-42 remains on the air. Interesting afternoon with area DTVs.

Yup! I am now receiving WIPB-DT loud and clear.

What's going on with channel 13? Their "HD" football games are near unwatchable with all the pixelation going on. Why do they have to compress the signal so much? Is it an NBC problem or is it a WTHR problem? I am no longer watching Sunday night football because I can't stand the pixelation. (the other stations WISH/WRTV over the air or ESPN/etc on cable are WAY less compressed).

What's going on with channel 13? Their "HD" football games are near unwatchable with all the pixelation going on. Why do they have to compress the signal so much? Is it an NBC problem or is it a WTHR problem? I am no longer watching Sunday night football because I can't stand the pixelation. (the other stations WISH/WRTV over the air or ESPN/etc on cable are WAY less compressed).
Just a side note: A lot of this will improve before the Super Bowl. NBC and its affiliates will be transition from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 between now and then.

What's going on with channel 13? Their "HD" football games are near unwatchable with all the pixelation going on. Why do they have to compress the signal so much? Is it an NBC problem or is it a WTHR problem? I am no longer watching Sunday night football because I can't stand the pixelation. (the other stations WISH/WRTV over the air or ESPN/etc on cable are WAY less compressed).

Well here in Vigo County I was not able to receive Sunday night Football in HD. It appears that WTWO did not broadcast it in HD. I'm a TW customer and the WTWO HD channel received only a SD signal.

Even though I'm only 8 miles from WTWO's tower-- I'm still unable to receive an over the air HD or digital signal from them!

Just a side note: A lot of this will improve before the Super Bowl. NBC and its affiliates will be transition from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 between now and then.

I'm a little confused about this. How can they switch to MPEG-4? I thought that the ATSC standard only allowed MPEG-2 encoding over the air. MPEG-2 should be plenty good given enough bandwidth. Why do they have bandwidth limitations that other networks don't?

NBC will use MPEG-4 on the satellite downlink, which will make the picture quality better at the source. Then the local station will convert it into MPEG-2 so the blame for poor quality can fall on the station and not the network. Or so goes the theory. =)

- Trip

Some positive news for Terre Haute area viewers regarding the full power projects at WTWO-DT 36 and WFXW-DT 39. Per wtwotech, this was posted Friday at the WTWO/WFXW website http://mywabashvalley.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439&start=120

"We hope to be on full power on both WTWO and WFXW by the end of November. The building is done and the transmitters are in place. The low power transmitters will be off air for two or three days before we put the full power transmiiters on the air."

I have been in contact with Al Grossniklaus from WTHR. He is aware of the above Direct TV compression problem and has been in contact with Direct TV in an effort to get this solved.

I have no problem with the off-air signal from WTHR, just the Direct TV product.

Thanks goldrich for your earlier answer. I still have one lingering question. What is the difference between signal strength and signal quality.
Right now on my meter my indy channels are:

WRTV - 100 strength and 50 quality
WISH - 70 strength and 100 quality
WTHR - 100 strength and around 60 quality
WXIN - 90 strength and 100 quality

I get dropouts on WRTV when quality is down near 50 and the wife gets especially frustrated when we have dropouts. I know it depends on lots of things but what would cause the weaker signals to have better quality or cause a signal with 100% strength to have only 50 or 60 quality? What can I do to get the quality of those channels up? Do I need to get a rotor and rotate a bit away from the city to get less strength?

My setup is a CM 4228 with a 7777 preamp up in Lafayette 47909.

I have just received word that Comcast areas which were formerly serviced by Insight via Anderson will receive new HD channels on December 18th.

934 - Animal Planet
936 - Discovery
950 - Fox News
948 - FX
941 - History Channel
938 - Sci-Fi
946 - Speed Channel
944 - TLC
939 - USA
947 - Science

Also, the Vs/Golf channel will split and one of them will replace Mojo.

I have been in contact with Al Grossniklaus from WTHR. He is aware of the above Direct TV compression problem and has been in contact with Direct TV in an effort to get this solved.

I have no problem with the off-air signal from WTHR, just the Direct TV product.

Glad to know I was not going crazy as I have noticed WTHR having very poor PQ lately. I also think Channel 6 and 8 are not as good as they used to be but not near as bad as Channel 13. I am using my antenna for my locals at the moment.

I understand that DirecTV is aware of the poor WTHR (Channel 13) picture quality and was supposed to have reset a switch on the morning of Nov 18. In my opinion, it still does not look up to the quality that it should be.

It also appears to me that DirecTV and WRTV (Channel 6) also is having some compression type issues.

I have just received word that Comcast areas which were formerly serviced by Insight via Anderson will receive new HD channels on December 18th.



Any word on whether any of these will be SDV? Did you get a letter?

Just adding to my post that was up about 4 posts:

I checked signal on WHMB 40-1 has a signal strength of 50 but a signal quality of 100.

I find it odd that my two of my weakest signals according to tvfool have a low signal strength (50-60) but my highest signal quality (90-100). Is is possible that I have too much amp/antenna for the other channels? If I got a rotor and turned the antenna away from the towers a few degrees would that possibly raise the signal quality?

Any word on whether any of these will be SDV? Did you get a letter?
No, I got an email from someone with Comcast locally who forwards me information as they receive it. Here is the entire message:


We are getting more HD starting December 18th

The following channels will be added to Digital Starter: Animal Planet HD ch 934*, Discovery HD ch 936*, Fox News HD ch 950*, FX HD ch 948*, History HD ch 941*, Sci-Fi HD ch 938*, Speed HD ch 946*, TLC HD ch 944* and USA HD ch 939*.

The following channels will be added to Digital Classic: Bloomberg ch 411, MLB Network ch 516 and Science HD ch 957*.


Hope this shows you that we are adding as many as possible

Has Comcast in Indianapolis added any HD since Big Ten Network a few months ago?

Has Comcast in Indianapolis added any HD since Big Ten Network a few months ago?
I'm not sure, but I don't think so.

Thanks goldrich for your earlier answer. I still have one lingering question. What is the difference between signal strength and signal quality.
Right now on my meter my indy channels are:

WRTV - 100 strength and 50 quality
WISH - 70 strength and 100 quality
WTHR - 100 strength and around 60 quality
WXIN - 90 strength and 100 quality

I get dropouts on WRTV when quality is down near 50 and the wife gets especially frustrated when we have dropouts. I know it depends on lots of things but what would cause the weaker signals to have better quality or cause a signal with 100% strength to have only 50 or 60 quality? What can I do to get the quality of those channels up? Do I need to get a rotor and rotate a bit away from the city to get less strength?

My setup is a CM 4228 with a 7777 preamp up in Lafayette 47909.

Signal strength is basically the raw OTA signal you are receiving from the station's transmitting tower, whereas the signal quality relates to the quality (bad, good or somewhere in between) of that signal. Multipath, interference, and insufficient or excessive signal level could play a part in the quality of that signal. For example, you are obviously getting plenty of signal from WRTV-DT but something (or some things) is apparently messing up that signal. Do you have another DTV receiver you could try to see if you get the same results? Some receivers are much more forgiving in decoding "dirty" signals. At your distance from Indy, I wouldn't think the issue would be caused by multipath.....Any large objects nearby where the signal could be reflected or bounced off and then directed back at your antenna? This is quite common here in the Indy metro area and I know from personal experience that the new CECB (coupon eligible converter boxes) with the latest technology are currently some of the best receivers at dealing with this issue.

Do you live near one of the Lafayette FM radio towers? Sometimes strong FM signals can interfere, especially with a high gain preamp like the 7777. Do you have the FM trap switch on the 7777 turned on? It should have been shipped in the "on" position.

You could try disconnecting the 7777 preamp and seeing what your results are, but this means disconnecting the mast mounted unit, too. You can't simply unplug the indoor power supply unit. Or another test relating to possible excessive signal would be to buy an attenuator which could be added to your coax just before it plugs into your receiver. Radio Shack used to carry them, but don't seem to these days. Here's one online..............
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=1296F Similar to my comments above relating to multipath, some receivers are better at dealing with excessive signal levels than others. My first DTV set-top-box (2001), the RCA DTC100, was very sensitive to overload. Using a preamp here in Indy, I sometimes could totally cancel the reception of WLFI-DT by over amplification. By reducing the signal into the receiver, sometimes via the attenuator, the station would once again decode, even at a lower signal level.

You mentioned possibly getting a rotor. Have you tried tweaking the aim (azimuth) of the antenna for WRTV-DT? After DXing DTV signals for seven years, I've found that antenna aim can be VERY CRITICAL. Sometimes it's not about receiving the strongest signal, but rather, at times, it's about blocking or nulling other co-channel signals, or sometimes even strong adjacent channel signals. Sometimes with DTV, moving the antenna just 2 or 3 degrees can make a huge difference in the signal 'quality' of a station and allow the receiver to decode it with few or zero issues.

Just some thoughts for you. Without being at your site, it's hard to know the exact culprit. Here's a post that answers part of your initial question.....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13593184&postcount=5

Please keep us posted. You are not the only one with this type of issue. We're all still learning.

Steve

Just a side note: A lot of this will improve before the Super Bowl. NBC and its affiliates will be transition from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 between now and then.

Per this post last night from an engineer at Fort Wayne's NBC affiliate, WISE-DT, the transition will take place this Tuesday..............

"Tonight we lost the NBC HD receiver. NBC is no longer replacing the current receivers. On Tuesday November 25th, NBC will be switching over to the new MPEG 4 format and we will be using a new receiver, so if everything goes OK, NBC will be back on HD that evening."

......Meanwhile, no NBC HD in the Fort Wayne area until Tuesday.

Per this post last night from an engineer at Fort Wayne's NBC affiliate, WISE-DT, the transition will take place this Tuesday..............

"Tonight we lost the NBC HD receiver. NBC is no longer replacing the current receivers. On Tuesday November 25th, NBC will be switching over to the new MPEG 4 format and we will be using a new receiver, so if everything goes OK, NBC will be back on HD that evening."

......Meanwhile, no NBC HD in the Fort Wayne area until Tuesday.

Very interesting...I wonder if WTHR in Indy will be switching on Tuesday as well? (is everyone switching on Tuesday?)

Very interesting...I wonder if WTHR in Indy will be switching on Tuesday as well? (is everyone switching on Tuesday?)

Spoke with the former CE of WANE in Fort Wayne Friday, who is now at the NBC affililate in Norfolk. He mentioned the cut at his facility on Tuesday, saying it was a flash cut. So perhaps it is nationwide.

It looks like the locals pixelation problem with Direct TV has been fixed. Looks great here off of my HR-21.

The NBC transition is indeed taking place for the entire network on Tuesday. You will see it starting with Nightly News at 6:30pm. Hopefully it is smooth.

It looks like the locals pixelation problem with Direct TV has been fixed. Looks great here off of my HR-21.

The NBC transition is indeed taking place for the entire network on Tuesday. You will see it starting with Nightly News at 6:30pm. Hopefully it is smooth.
I don't have Direct TV, but via both Comcast and OTA today...the Notre Dame game looked bad.

It looks like the locals pixelation problem with Direct TV has been fixed. Looks great here off of my HR-21.

The NBC transition is indeed taking place for the entire network on Tuesday. You will see it starting with Nightly News at 6:30pm. Hopefully it is smooth.

Definitely agree. The football games yesterday and today were the best they have been on the Indy locals in a month. Even the Notre Dame game was pretty good which says a lot considering it was on NBC.

Thanks goldrich for your earlier answer. I still have one lingering question. What is the difference between signal strength and signal quality.
Right now on my meter my indy channels are:

WRTV - 100 strength and 50 quality
WISH - 70 strength and 100 quality
WTHR - 100 strength and around 60 quality
WXIN - 90 strength and 100 quality


Interesting... I am on the far-westside of Indy and get the following strength readings (through a Dish 722 receiver):

WRTV - 94 strength
WISH - 95 strength
WTHR - 73 strength
WXIN - 99 strength
WTTV - 74 strength
WFYI - 72 strength

The lower signal strengths from Ch. 4 and Ch. 20 don't surprise me, but why is Ch. 13 so poor? Is it due to my location west of Indy? Does their signal emanate from a point different than the other "major" networks? Is their signal simply weaker in intensity than the others?

Thanks,

It looks like the locals pixelation problem with Direct TV has been fixed. Looks great here off of my HR-21.

The NBC transition is indeed taking place for the entire network on Tuesday. You will see it starting with Nightly News at 6:30pm. Hopefully it is smooth.
Haha...I thought you might be interested in this. I emailed a question to WTHR and never even mentioned AVS or you.


Dear ____,

Thank you for your question.

BubbaJr is correct, NBC network is transitioning the entire network HD distribution to a new MPEG4 HD system tomorrow afternoon, which includes WTHR.

Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering and Operations
WTHR NBC
Indianapolis


Thanks Al. I forgot that you visit here as well.

Interesting... I am on the far-westside of Indy and get the following strength readings (through a Dish 722 receiver):

WRTV - 94 strength
WISH - 95 strength
WTHR - 73 strength
WXIN - 99 strength
WTTV - 74 strength
WFYI - 72 strength

The lower signal strengths from Ch. 4 and Ch. 20 don't surprise me, but why is Ch. 13 so poor? Is it due to my location west of Indy? Does their signal emanate from a point different than the other "major" networks? Is their signal simply weaker in intensity than the others?

Thanks,

WTHR-DT's ERP is definitely not weaker, as it is the most powerful station on your list at 1000kW. WRTV-DT and WTTV-DT are not much less and both will be up at 1000kW in the near future if the FCC approves their power increase requests.

You didn't mention what kind of antenna you're using, whether or not you're using a preamp and/or distribution amp, etc. These items could make a difference in what you are seeing. Plus, any of the variables listed above with Burton could be affecting your signal strength (quality).

Most of the station signals you listed are coming from the 79th St./Township Line Road area, but WTTV-DT's is from the south in Trafalgar (Johnson Co.) and WTHR-DT's is from just inside Hamilton Co. at the corner of 96th & Ditch Road. So the WTHR tower is about 2 miles northeast of the others near 79th.

As long as you are not getting audio and/or video dropouts with your current setup, I wouldn't be too concerned with it as WTHR-DT will be switching from channel 46 to channel 13 in less than 90 days. You're getting WISH-DT (ch. 9) well, so hopefully the VHF portion of your antenna will also do well with ch. 13.

Steve

Am planning on buying a 26" LCD for the bedreoom for xmas. We currently are on cable, but plan to switch to Dish or Direct at some time next spring after the point at which we can count on receiving a dependable full strength OTA signal from our three locals. So, initially this TV will be hooked up directly to cable--not planning on getting a box.

I'm confused by the differences in onboard tuners - QAM, NSTC, etc. Could someone tell me which type of tuner I need to make sure this TV has to receive the "free" HD channels that will come straight from the cable?

Thanks.

We have an outside old fashioned antenna and no cable or dish. Of the Indy channels (6-8-13) usually we can only get channel 13 reliably, 8 sometimes and 6 practically never. But after hooking up our coupon converter box we can get 6 some, 8 occasionally and no signal at all on 13.
I just don't understand why our normally best channel will not pick up a digital signal at all now??? Needless to say, I am not looking forward to February! Any suggestions?

Define "outside old fashioned antenna." Can't speak for you, but in my area (not in Indiana), many people have VHF-only antennas. If your reception on WXIN-59 analog or WFYI-20 analog is very lousy, you may need a new antenna.

- Trip

I am not sure what the antenna is besides old! I thought it was VHF but not positive. We do pick up the Ft. Wayne channels also but not as good as 13 with just the antenna. Channels 59 and 20 are two of our worst with the antenna and won't come in at all with the converter box. Any suggestions on what kind of new antenna you are talking about?

I am not sure what the antenna is besides old! I thought it was VHF but not positive. We do pick up the Ft. Wayne channels also but not as good as 13 with just the antenna. Channels 59 and 20 are two of our worst with the antenna and won't come in at all with the converter box. Any suggestions on what kind of new antenna you are talking about?
I'm not sure what the problem is, but WTHR's (13.1) digital signal is UHF right now and will be VHF after Feb. 17, 2009.

WRTV (6.1) is UHF.

WISH (8.1) is VHF.

WXIN (59.1) is UHF.

That probably has something to do with it then, I don't know, hopefully come February when 13 switches we will be able to pick it up better.

I'm confused by the differences in onboard tuners - QAM, NSTC, etc. Could someone tell me which type of tuner I need to make sure this TV has to receive the "free" HD channels that will come straight from the cable?

The three flavors of signals are:

NTSC - Broadcast and Cable Analog
ATSC - Broadcast Digital (SD & HD)
QAM - Digital Cable

If you want to watch the unencrypted QAM stations (free locals) on your cable, you need QAM.

I believe any set you buy today is required to have both NTSC and ATSC tuners in it. However, I think (don't quote me) that QAM is optional. With that said, I think most sets also include QAM.

We have an outside old fashioned antenna and no cable or dish. Of the Indy channels (6-8-13) usually we can only get channel 13 reliably, 8 sometimes and 6 practically never. But after hooking up our coupon converter box we can get 6 some, 8 occasionally and no signal at all on 13.
I just don't understand why our normally best channel will not pick up a digital signal at all now??? Needless to say, I am not looking forward to February! Any suggestions?

Duh, first of all, I need to reevaluate this. You're in Blackford County and not Jay Co....DUH!! You live right on the edge of WTHR-DT's service (coverage) area. You're going to need the strongest possible gain from your antenna that you can get to make DTV reception work 24/7. Here's the tentative coverage map from the FCC.... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT988068.html When WTHR-DT switches from ch. 46 to ch. 13 in Feb., here's what it looks like..... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1236097.html Virtually the same service area. For some distant viewers, the VHF signal (ch. 13) might propagate better than the UHF signal (ch. 46), but that's just speculation. To date, it seems that most OTA DTV viewers around the country are actually having more success with full power UHF DTV stations.

A number of the comments I posted above for Burton in Lafayette would also pertain to your situation, but even more so. Check out some of the items pointed out at this website I posted http://wkar.org/digitalguy/antenna.php One point here that can't be overemphasized are these lines...."Reposition your antenna. The higher you can place your outdoor antenna, the better your reception will be. The FCC-estimate of coverage areas assumes an outdoor antenna at a height of 30 feet." This is VERY important at your distance. With digital as opposed to analog, it's ALL or NOTHING. A preamp along with a good antenna at some good height are going to be very critical at your distance. Maybe you can check with area neighbors or maybe there's at least one antenna/tower installer in the county you could speak to.

After reviewing some other TV markets, it appears that you might do better with Fort Wayne stations. Here are some examples:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT692115.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1167756.html

Currently, Fort Wayne's WFFT-DT 36 (55.1), Fox, is at very low power but should be firing up its new 1000 kW transmitter facility before the end of the year. And after Feb. 17, WANE-DT 31 (15.1) will be operating at 1000 kW.

Hope this helps some. Sorry about my initial mistake with the wrong county.......

Steve

Steve,
thanks for all the info! This is all very confusing to me and I appreciate the help. On the map that came up for our address I think we may need to adjust our antenna direction just a bit, but then I'm not the one that does the climbing either. Thanks again!

WTHR-DT's ERP is definitely not weaker, as it is the most powerful station on your list at 1000kW. WRTV-DT and WTTV-DT are not much less and both will be up at 1000kW in the near future if the FCC approves their power increase requests.

You didn't mention what kind of antenna you're using, whether or not you're using a preamp and/or distribution amp, etc. These items could make a difference in what you are seeing. Plus, any of the variables listed above with Burton could be affecting your signal strength (quality).

Most of the station signals you listed are coming from the 79th St./Township Line Road area, but WTTV-DT's is from the south in Trafalgar (Johnson Co.) and WTHR-DT's is from just inside Hamilton Co. at the corner of 96th & Ditch Road. So the WTHR tower is about 2 miles northeast of the others near 79th.

As long as you are not getting audio and/or video dropouts with your current setup, I wouldn't be too concerned with it as WTHR-DT will be switching from channel 46 to channel 13 in less than 90 days. You're getting WISH-DT (ch. 9) well, so hopefully the VHF portion of your antenna will also do well with ch. 13.

Steve

Thanks for the insight. My antenna is a Terk indoor amplified one:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7322587&type=product&id=1118844608800

I find it interesting that a two mile longer path, at a higher power than WRTV, results in such a lower signal strength.

Thanks for the insight. My antenna is a Terk indoor amplified one:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7322587&type=product&id=1118844608800

I find it interesting that a two mile longer path, at a higher power than WRTV, results in such a lower signal strength.

Your issue with WTHR-DT might be due to overload of the signal (try turning the amp off) and/or multipath, especially if you are within 15-20 miles of the tower. Placement of indoor antennas can be quite critical. Moving it a few feet or even a few inches can make a big difference. A strong signal like that from WTHR-DT can even be reflected off of refrigerator doors, etc. Per an earlier discussion, I would think the issue is related to the quality of the signal and not a lack of signal.

We currently are on cable, but plan to switch to Dish or Direct at some time next spring after the point at which we can count on receiving a dependable full strength OTA signal from our three locals.
If you are in the Indianapolis market and go with DirecTV, OTA won't be much of a concern. DirecTV has WTTV 4 (CW), WRTV 6 (ABC), WISH 8 (CBS), WTHR 13 (NBC), and WXIN 59 (Fox) in HD.

While doing some channel surfing this morning, Channel 19 is now Indy's Music Channel. They must be in test mode, since all they had up was a screen-saver type of slide with the ID (WDNI-19 LP).

While doing some channel surfing this morning, Channel 19 is now Indy's Music Channel. They must be in test mode, since all they had up was a screen-saver type of slide with the ID (WDNI-19 LP).

They fired up their new analog transmitter Wednesday evening, because I was watching WXIX-19, Cincinnati, Wednesday morning. The station is moving from ch. 65 to ch. 19, with ch. 65 currently still on the air. I haven't seen any FCC info relating to low power digital (LD) plans.

Meanwhile, low power WIPX-51 has a CP to move to ch. 34 for a digital broadcast (WIPX-LD) @ 15kW.

Steve

ccrider:

I am not aware that CBS is sending TVGOS. We are probably passing it on, if they send it in their HD programming, else we are not likely to be doing so for the SD/analog signals.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

ccrider:

I am not aware that CBS is sending TVGOS. We are probably passing it on, if they send it in their HD programming, else we are not likely to be doing so for the SD/analog signals.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

All CBS stations are supposed to start carrying TVGOS by 02/17/09 from what I was told. All the O&O stations do as well as a collection of non-O&O stations. See my site here:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

Apparently there's some piece of gear that CBS stations need in order to receive it, not sure of specifics like who is paying for it and so on...

- Trip

All CBS stations are supposed to start carrying TVGOS by 02/17/09 from what I was told. All the O&O stations do as well as a collection of non-O&O stations. See my site here:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

Apparently there's some piece of gear that CBS stations need in order to receive it, not sure of specifics like who is paying for it and so on...

- Trip

I don't know how many markets there are, but it seems like, looking at your list, many need to sign-on.
Is this an optional thing for the local stations, as far as passing it on?
Are they required by contract with TVGOS to rebroadcast the data after 2/17/09?
Is it up to TVGOS to contract with each local to carry the data?
I guess I'm just a little "unknowing" when it comes to the TVGOS system.

I'm waiting to order one of the Echostar Pal DVR's until I hear there will be a reliable program guide available for my area. :D

Thanks,

My list is incomplete because my data is incomplete. I am sure there are many more stations doing it but I don't have data on them. If someone here has a computer-based receiver on Windows XP hooked to an antenna and would like to get me data for Indianapolis, I'd be most appreciative. =)

I'm told that all CBS stations are supposed to do it at some point and that it's a network thing and not something to do with individual stations, though I don't know for sure. I don't know a whole lot about it, to be quite honest, I'm only going on what I've been told by others.

- Trip

My list is incomplete because my data is incomplete. I am sure there are many more stations doing it but I don't have data on them. If someone here has a computer-based receiver on Windows XP hooked to an antenna and would like to get me data for Indianapolis, I'd be most appreciative. =)

I'm told that all CBS stations are supposed to do it at some point and that it's a network thing and not something to do with individual stations, though I don't know for sure. I don't know a whole lot about it, to be quite honest, I'm only going on what I've been told by others.

- Trip

Trip,
North East of Indy, how can I help? I've got a MyHD and a Fusion on a PC, but I don't know how to find out if they are receiving TVGOS data.

Let me know,

I've sent you a Private Message.

- Trip

I've sent you a Private Message.

- Trip

Sorry it took so long to get back, you should have an email from me by now.

In order to truly appreciate the OTA signal you might be utilizing at your house, you really need to watch "World's Toughest Fixes: 2,000-Foot Tower" on National Geographic Channel (in HD, if possible), Wednesday evening at 6 p.m. A crew of tower climbers remove a defective top-mounted antenna from a 2000-ft. tower in South Dakota and replace it with a new antenna. As the guys got ready to remove the old one, I was sweating bullets while nervously watching and sitting on the couch. Sometime next year, tower climbers will be removing the old top-mounted analog antennas at WXIN-59 and WTTV-4, and replacing them with new top-mounted digital antennas for WXIN-DT 45/WTTK-DT 29 and WTTV-DT 48.

The information that I have found does not say that CBS affiliates HAVE to carry TVGOS. Apparently many do, however. I have forwarded the info back up that chain to try and follow up. We may have decided corporately NOT to do this, but I'll find out more.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Apparently, WISH also made a decision "corporately" to mangle their election coverage as well by squeezing the 16:9 shot. Let's hope they correct a few of these issues.

The only other LIN CBS station I have data for is KRQE in Albuquerque, and that station also is not carrying TVGOS, so who knows.

I do know that TVGOS has a(n) (exclusive?) partnership with CBS. When analog goes away, it will no longer be available from PBS stations at all.

The only non-CBS station I'm aware of that's carrying it is XETV-DT in Tijuana/San Diego, a CW affiliate in a town where the CBS has a crippled signal right now...

- Trip

Trip, I missed one. Our Buffalo sister station is also doing it.

jrcorwin, lighten up! This job would be easier, tho not much simpler, with unlimited resources and funds. Without either, we do the best that we are capable of. It works great a lot of the time. When it doesn't we fix it the best we can.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS and so much more

and yes, it HAS been a rotten morning!

Hey:

Sorry to hear it's been a rotten morning. Hopefully your afternoon will be better! =)

Thanks for the update on WIVB. One month ago I'd been told that WIVB was not doing TVGOS, but had no data confirming that. Hearing it from you, I believe it and have thus added it to my list.

- Trip

Trip, I missed one. Our Buffalo sister station is also doing it.

jrcorwin, lighten up! This job would be easier, tho not much simpler, with unlimited resources and funds. Without either, we do the best that we are capable of. It works great a lot of the time. When it doesn't we fix it the best we can.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS and so much more

and yes, it HAS been a rotten morning!
WISH was outdone by both WRTV and WTHR regarding this issue. Enough with the excuses already. Mediocrity is apparently good enough for some. The top three affiliates in this city should be challenging one another...not allowing #1 to run away with it time and again. This has become a race for second place.

WISH was outdone by both WRTV and WTHR regarding this issue. Enough with the excuses already. Mediocrity is apparently good enough for some. The top three affiliates in this city should be challenging one another...not allowing #1 to run away with it time and again. This has become a race for second place.

I agree with Tom Weber. Lighten up already!

I agree with Tom Weber. Lighten up already!
I have lightened up, but still disappointed.

I agree with Tom Weber. Lighten up already!

Same Here :)

At least WISH has someone that bothers to keep us informed. I don't remember seeing any posts from other locals when they are having problems. Those responses from Tom are well appreciated when reception is marginal, and you don't know if the dropouts are your problem or not.
Could they do better...of course, but if I had the money for a 100 ft tower, I could too. :D

I prefer information over excuses. Anyway, moving on...

From the WTWO/WFXW, Terre Haute website this morning.................


The digital signal for WFXW will be off air beginning around 8am Wednesday Morning. Crews will be finishing the conversion to full power digital on FOX - WFXW. This work will only interfere with the WFXW digital signal. Everything should be back to normal by Thursday afternoon. Thank you for your patience.


- WTWO/WFXW Management


http://mywabashvalley.com/phpBB2/

Signal strength is basically the raw OTA signal you are receiving from the station's transmitting tower, whereas the signal quality relates to the quality (bad, good or somewhere in between) of that signal. Multipath, interference, and insufficient or excessive signal level could play a part in the quality of that signal. For example, you are obviously getting plenty of signal from WRTV-DT but something (or some things) is apparently messing up that signal. Do you have another DTV receiver you could try to see if you get the same results? Some receivers are much more forgiving in decoding "dirty" signals. At your distance from Indy, I wouldn't think the issue would be caused by multipath.....Any large objects nearby where the signal could be reflected or bounced off and then directed back at your antenna? This is quite common here in the Indy metro area and I know from personal experience that the new CECB (coupon eligible converter boxes) with the latest technology are currently some of the best receivers at dealing with this issue.

Do you live near one of the Lafayette FM radio towers? Sometimes strong FM signals can interfere, especially with a high gain preamp like the 7777. Do you have the FM trap switch on the 7777 turned on? It should have been shipped in the "on" position.

You could try disconnecting the 7777 preamp and seeing what your results are, but this means disconnecting the mast mounted unit, too. You can't simply unplug the indoor power supply unit. Or another test relating to possible excessive signal would be to buy an attenuator which could be added to your coax just before it plugs into your receiver. Radio Shack used to carry them, but don't seem to these days. Here's one online..............
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=1296F Similar to my comments above relating to multipath, some receivers are better at dealing with excessive signal levels than others. My first DTV set-top-box (2001), the RCA DTC100, was very sensitive to overload. Using a preamp here in Indy, I sometimes could totally cancel the reception of WLFI-DT by over amplification. By reducing the signal into the receiver, sometimes via the attenuator, the station would once again decode, even at a lower signal level.

You mentioned possibly getting a rotor. Have you tried tweaking the aim (azimuth) of the antenna for WRTV-DT? After DXing DTV signals for seven years, I've found that antenna aim can be VERY CRITICAL. Sometimes it's not about receiving the strongest signal, but rather, at times, it's about blocking or nulling other co-channel signals, or sometimes even strong adjacent channel signals. Sometimes with DTV, moving the antenna just 2 or 3 degrees can make a huge difference in the signal 'quality' of a station and allow the receiver to decode it with few or zero issues.

Just some thoughts for you. Without being at your site, it's hard to know the exact culprit. Here's a post that answers part of your initial question.....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13593184&postcount=5

Please keep us posted. You are not the only one with this type of issue. We're all still learning.

Steve

Well, I don't have tall buildings or trees around to cause the multipath. I will try and disconnect the pre-amp. Thanks for the info about disconnecting the mast mount too because I did try to just disconnect the inside unit and that had horrible results. I will probably wait until the snow melts off the roof before climbing up on the roof again. While up there I'll see if I can aim for WRTV a bit better. If none of that works I'll try for the attenuator. Are there any that are better than others?

Thanks for that great response!!

Has anyone else had a problem with WTWO's audio signal when the show is not a 5 channel broadcast? Instead of switching the signal to 2-channel audio, WTWO seems to keep sending a 5 channel audio signal, but basically muting out 3 of the audio channels.... This prevents my receiver from automatically kicking over to Dolby Pro-Logic mode from Dolby Digital mode.

The kicker is, instead of sending the 2 audio channels to the front left and front right speakers, WTWO is sending the audio through the REAR right and REAR left speakers. This has to stop! The shows sound very tinny, because rear speakers usually aren't designed to play back a full range of audio.

Ideally, WTWO would change their audio signal from 5 channels to 2 if the show is only broadcast in stereo, but at the very least, PLEASE send the signal through the front speakers and not the rear!

Is anyone else having this issue?

OK, on Tuesday, we changed WNDY, and this morning we changed WISH, over to a system whereby the Master Control switching is done in HD. This makes for a much more straightforward signal flow thru our system. It eliminates the possibility of double-squeezes for school closings and the like (which we had this week), and we also have been able to change the audio processing flow so that we should now have dialog coming out of the center speaker for local newscasts, as well as entertainment programming.

BTW, in another 2 weeks, we'll celebrate 10 years on the air for WISH-HD!

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS / et cetera / ad infinitum / ad nauseam <g>

Is anyone else having this issue?

Yes, I 'm having problems with WTWO 2-channel audio as well and I agree it is annoying.

However I'm thrilled that WFXW finally cranked up their power. I've been waiting 5 years for a respectable digital signal on Fox so that I can watch the Bears in HD. Rejoice!

Yes true to their word (for a change) WFXW's power has been cranked up. Makes me happy since I still haven't broke down to get a rotor now at least I can pick up the THaute locals and Bloomington PBS stations at the same time.

OK, on Tuesday, we changed WNDY, and this morning we changed WISH, over to a system whereby the Master Control switching is done in HD. This makes for a much more straightforward signal flow thru our system. It eliminates the possibility of double-squeezes for school closings and the like (which we had this week), and we also have been able to change the audio processing flow so that we should now have dialog coming out of the center speaker for local newscasts, as well as entertainment programming.

BTW, in another 2 weeks, we'll celebrate 10 years on the air for WISH-HD!

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS / et cetera / ad infinitum / ad nauseam <g>

An early "Happy Birthday" to the folks at WISH HD!
Sometimes I wish I was 10 again. :)

Anyone watching IU play Gonzaga on the HD Big Ten Network channel? It looks awful on Dish. Does it look as bad on other providers?

Anyone watching IU play Gonzaga on the HD Big Ten Network channel? It looks awful on Dish. Does it look as bad on other providers?

Yes, I'm watching via Bright House cable and it's not a very good feed. From a distance, it doesn't look too bad, but closeup there's a lot of video "noise" and "swimming" effect.

Steve

Yes, I'm watching via Bright House cable and it's not a very good feed. From a distance, it doesn't look too bad, but closeup there's a lot of video "noise" and "swimming" effect.

Steve

Thanks. Yeah, at times you can see the floor boards jiggling around. You'd think Lucas Oil Stadium would have state-of-the-art everything with the money that was spent!

Anyone watching IU play Gonzaga on the HD Big Ten Network channel? It looks awful on Dish. Does it look as bad on other providers?


Looks bad on DirecTV also. Has to be the source.

I noticed this morning that WFYI channel 20 in Indy is in HD on my DirecTV receiver in Shelbyville. Anyone else notice this?

OK, if things continue to go right we should have Entertainment Tonight in HD this evening and from now on. Distributor didn't make it easy - they mis-fed twice, and we're now trying the 3rd feed, which we're turning around immediately, from 7 PM feed to 7:30 airing.

Tom Weber
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

Tom,

Yes, ET is in HD here at 7:44 p.m. Looks good! Plus, CC is on.

A viewer who depends on CC via WISH-DT wasn't seeing it earlier in the week on Inside Edition and a few other shows. So I was checking it out, and I didn't see the CC last half hour on Inside Edition until about the last 5 minutes of the show. Not sure if there was an issue on your end or on the receiving end.

Steve

From the WFXW-DT/WTWO-DT website:

"WFXW went to 25000 watts as of last Wednesday and WTWO went to 25000 watts as of today 12/10. WTWO will double in power within the next few days. Just wanted to bring an update to everyone."

With a little tropo enhancement tonight, I'm currently seeing a little signal from WTWO-DT 36 (not enough to decode) but nothing from WFXW-DT 39.

We're having some captioning issues, tho I thought "only" in SD. It's with particular shows, and involve recent updates to some equipment. We are working with multiple vendors to get software/firmware that's compatible with each others' versions, and we also have some replacement equipment on order. I always have CC on in my office, but I try not to be in the office after maybe 6:30pm <g>. I will continue to monitor.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / LWS

I have the same signal report for WTWO from the westside of Indy. I did get some signal on WFXW, not enough to decode. It will be difficult until WHMB Ch. 40 analog goes off the air.

I have the same signal report for WTWO from the westside of Indy. I did get some signal on WFXW, not enough to decode. It will be difficult until WHMB Ch. 40 analog goes off the air.

At 7:20 a.m., I was able to decode WTWO-DT 36 (@ 83 miles) for a few minutes. At the same time, WFXW-DT 39 was very close to decoding, but as you mentioned, WHMB-40 is right in my aim towards Terre Haute. I am 5 miles northeast of the WHMB tower at 231 degrees, while the T.H. towers in Farmersburg are at 235 degrees. When my antennas are aimed in that direction, I get a lot of weird reception on certain channels due to the high RF present. Most of the issues appear to be related to analog signals, with fewer issues related to digital signals.

According to the FCC information, WTWO-DT will eventually be up to 1000 kW and WFXW-DT will be up to 850 kW. Those powers will definitely cover a lot of territory.

Steve

Anyone know why WISH just switched to SD during the Memphis/Gtown game? I was watching and about 3 min into the game they switched off the HD signal and it switched over to SD with bars on the L and R.

Anyone know why WISH just switched to SD during the Memphis/Gtown game? I was watching and about 3 min into the game they switched off the HD signal and it switched over to SD with bars on the L and R.

Well the halftime show is in HD now. Let's see if game will be.

Game is back on and in HD. Maybe the infamous "switch" was not flipped.

If anyone from WTHR is watching, congrats on the big improvements lately. I think your NBC HD quality is great now, probably the best in the city to my eyes. From prime time to sports, it all looks really good!

WISH, I think you guys need to do a little tweaking. It doesn't seem as good to me as it used to, especially during fast action (basketball, football).

These are the stations I receive OTA in Columbus, about 50 miles from the tower farm in NW Indy. For the most part, I get good reception, but at times WISH is a real problem. It's the least dependable of all the majors (tonight's '60 Minutes' is virtually unintelligible).

Does anyone know the present power levels for these stations? And will this change in February?

I read that WTHR will revert to VHF in February, so I will be receiving WTHR off the same Winegard VHF antenna (model 1713 if memory serves me well) helped by a CM 7777 line amplifier and mated with a CM 4228 for the UHF band.

When the transition occurs in February, can I expect to encounter similar PQ/reception problems with WTHR as I presently do with WISH? Or is there some good news on the horizon? I gotta believe the answer lies with the plans for ERP at these two stations.

As for the VHF DTVs, WISH-DT 9 is currently operating at 19.5 kW and WTHR-DT 13 is approved to operate at 15.1 kW. WISH-DT has requested a power increase to 22.8 kW and WTHR-DT has requested a power increase to 22 kW, but to date, neither request has been approved by the FCC.

Your issue with WISH-DT tonight could be related to weak signal and/or co-channel interference. Until Feb. 18, some areas southeast of Indy have to contend with the analog signal from WCPO-9, Cincinnati. In the Greensburg area, depending on which direction the antenna is aimed, it could be WISH-DT or WCPO-9. Antenna aim can be very critical. Co-channel interference can kill or at least cause major issues with a digital signal.

Last evening I was receiving a couple of the Cincinnati DTVs but tonight they are totally MIA. I'm seeing an occasional lock with WDRB-DT 49 (41.1), Louisville, but that's it from that market tonight.

Steve

Thanks, Steve, for your usual well-informed reply. I sure hope WISH and WTHR get their power boosts approved!

The co-channel interference likelihood you mentioned is perfectly plausible, the more I learn about the idiosyncracies of signal propogation. When WISH is really weak, there often is an approaching rain front in north-central Indiana (the weather radar map on the subchannels comes in handy). I've imagined that my signal problems may be the result of some reflection my tuner has difficulty with.

Your mention of the Cincinnati Ch. 9 signal reminds me of when, shortly after getting my OTA rig all set up, I was shocked one morning to see Cincinnati's NBC come in crystal clear. It was coming in from the side, as I've got the Winegard VHF Yagi pointed just about due north. Anyway, it didn't stick around for long.

Thanks again for a timely response.

Our CBS HD receiver has hiccupped twice in the past 10 days. Once was a total, once was audio failure only. Coupled to this last one was another device failure that made it impossible to switch to a backup HD source. It took a few minutes to reboot things (in a particular order) that allowed us to get back in HD.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

WISH (and, after Feb. 17th, WTHR) power levels in VHF are pretty darn comparable to analog VHF power levels, when you relate them to coverage area. WISH has viewers N of Muncie and in Bloomington, so we know that reception is demonstrably about the same.

One thing that does seem to be a recurring theme is that lots of people are content with an over-the-air picture that's not nearly as good as it could be, even in analog, if they just would adjust/change/improve their antennas and/or cabling. And people with good receive system in general are the ones who have the fewest problems in switching to digital.

It's free TV, but a little effort can make the experience much better!

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / LWS / WIIH

Tom - I appreciate your input re: power & coverage area.

Will the transmitter height(s) for WISH and WTHR increase a bit?

WISH's will remain the same, but it's simply the lower of the two antennas that are already extending from the top of the tower. Our analog antenna is only about 60 feet higher.

WTHR's will go up a little bit, because they are changing channels, and therefore antennas. It looks like they will gain about 100 feet in height.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

For you overnight owls, we are now doing our late news repeat in HD. That's the one that follows Craig Fergeson (sp?), so it's about 1:45 in the morning.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Well it's nice that WTWO in THaute increased their power but now the folks in the valley may have an additional concern. For the last few days they have been showing their HD content letterboxed. I hope this is still testing they're trying to do. Hopefully by the February transition the HD content will be shown full 16:9.

Well it's nice that WTWO in THaute increased their power but now the folks in the valley may have an additional concern. For the last few days they have been showing their HD content letterboxed. I hope this is still testing they're trying to do. Hopefully by the February transition the HD content will be shown full 16:9.

I think they're just working out the bugs since I have seen full 16:9 HD on WTWO recently. That being said, I haven't been able to get any signal for WTWO or WFXW last night or this morning so they might have bigger concerns at the moment!

Hello all:

I've received confirmation that TVGOS data should be airing on WFYI-DT 20-1. I just received a bunch of data from ccrider2, and to my surprise there's WFYI transmitting TVGOS.

Thank you, ccrider2!

- Trip

I think they're just working out the bugs since I have seen full 16:9 HD on WTWO recently. That being said, I haven't been able to get any signal for WTWO or WFXW last night or this morning so they might have bigger concerns at the moment!

Playing at work so I haven't seen what's happening today. Do know WTWO showed the major network news in beautiful HD as it should be. But then the Earl show comes on and everything was letterboxed starting with that and frankly it looked like SD material being sent over an HD signal.

I can't wait till the transition is complete as things change seem to change from day to day. I've been really struggling pulling in WICD 41-1 out of Champaign Illinois at about 45 miles lately and yet WTIU at 63 miles continues to be rock solid.

Things are definitely changing constantly. It's easy to get spoiled on getting nice OTA HD! I live in Bloomington and have been able to get WTWO, WFXW, and WTHI very consistently. But, for the last two days no signal at all from WTWO & WFXW, still strong signal for WTHI. Looks like no HD football games this weekend! :(

td

Here's a rag I'm posting because the CBSSports site doesn't seem to offer any feedback mechanism.

But it should, considering how the folks at the big switch in NYC screwed up royally a minute ago: they cut off all but the final (and inconsequential) 0.1 second of the final 25 seconds of a one-point college BB game between two ranked teams, Michigan State and Texas. Who in their right mind thought handing the broadcast over to cover the first three minutes of a game between Purdue and Davidson was of greater viewer interest? C'mon now....

Who in their right mind thought handing the broadcast over to cover the first three minutes of a game between Purdue and Davidson was of greater viewer interest?
Could this have been a local decision because Purdue is fairly local to Central Indiana?

Fair question; I do not know the answer. I suppose some contractual duties were behind the choice.

In retrospect, perhaps the first three minutes of the Purdue-Davidson game proved to be the best. It was all downhill (a bore) from there.

I have just received word that Comcast areas which were formerly serviced by Insight via Anderson will receive new HD channels on December 18th.

934 - Animal Planet
936 - Discovery
950 - Fox News
948 - FX
941 - History Channel
938 - Sci-Fi
946 - Speed Channel
944 - TLC
939 - USA
947 - Science

Also, the Vs/Golf channel will split and one of them will replace Mojo.




My Tivo informed me that I had received the above mentioned channels. However, I have received nothing from Comcast that they are now available. Did anyone else get any notification from Comcast? Since I don't have a Comcast DVR or converter, perhaps there was an announcement through them. I would have thought a letter or bill stuffer would have been in order.

My Tivo informed me that I had received the above mentioned channels. However, I have received nothing from Comcast that they are now available. Did anyone else get any notification from Comcast? Since I don't have a Comcast DVR or converter, perhaps there was an announcement through them. I would have thought a letter or bill stuffer would have been in order.
I didn't get anything in the mail either. Just reminder from my contact w/ Comcast. Cinemax HD was also added.

.... I would have thought a letter or bill stuffer would have been in order.

Ha! The only announcement I received in my bill yesterday was (you guessed it) a rate increase effective 01/01/09! Once again, less for more!

As of last week, WFYI-DT 21 filed an application with the FCC for a very modest increase in power and tower height. If approved, the station would go from 200 kW (with directional antenna) @ 774 feet to 225 kW (with non-directional antenna) @ 828 feet.

The balance of the WFYI-DT filing actually relates to the power increase requested by WBNS-DT 21, Columbus, OH (WTHR's sister station) back in June. WBNS-DT 21 wants to go from 1000 kW to 1700 kW! Some engineers claim that FCC guidelines limit the ERP of a UHF digital station at 1000 kW. But some engineers claim the FCC has never stated an absolute power limit and that other parameters, mostly relating to other DTV stations in a given TV market, can determine the maximum ERP.

With this in mind, WFYI-DT 21 is now claiming "THE WBNS-DT APPLICATION REQUESTS AN EFFECTIVE RADIATED POWER THAT GREATLY EXCEEDS THE MAXIMUM LIMITS ALLOWED IN SECTION 73.622(F)(4) AND 73.622(F)(8). THE PENDING APPLICATION IS THEREFORE INVALID....." WFYI-DT also claims the WBNS-DT application was "ERRONEOUSLY ACCEPTED."

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101261124&formid=340&fac_num=41397

This could prove to be an interesting challenge for the FCC. If the WBNS-DT power increase is approved, it would/could become the most powerful UHF DTV in the country.

Steve

Steve;
Just curious. What do you suppose it costs per hour (electrical bill alone) to transmit 1.7 million watts?? Sort of boggles the mind.
Nat

They aren't actually putting out that much power.

1700 kW is ERP, or Effective Rated Power. What happens is that when the station transmits, it sends its power up to an antenna at the top of the tower. Since the signal is line of sight, it doesn't make sense to transmit straight up or down toward the ground, etc. So the antenna refocuses that power out at the horizon. On the ground, the current 1000 kW ERP WBNS signal is only putting out 58.34 kW. But since the excess power is being refocused, it acts like 1000 kW.

And in fairness, the maximum analog UHF power was 5000 kW. :p

- Trip

They aren't actually putting out that much power.

1700 kW is ERP, or Effective Rated Power. What happens is that when the station transmits, it sends its power up to an antenna at the top of the tower. Since the signal is line of sight, it doesn't make sense to transmit straight up or down toward the ground, etc. So the antenna refocuses that power out at the horizon. On the ground, the current 1000 kW ERP WBNS signal is only putting out 58.34 kW. But since the excess power is being refocused, it acts like 1000 kW.

And in fairness, the maximum analog UHF power was 5000 kW. :p

- Trip

Thanks so much for the lucid explanation above. I think even I can understand it.:) I guess the key word is "effective." 58.34K = a million....Wow Thanks a bunch!

WBNS-DT 21, Columbus, OH (WTHR's sister station) wants to go from 1000 kW to 1700 kW! Some engineers claim that FCC guidelines limit the ERP of a UHF digital station at 1000 kW. But some engineers claim the FCC has never stated an absolute power limit and that other parameters, mostly relating to other DTV stations in a given TV market, can determine the maximum ERP.

This could prove to be an interesting challenge for the FCC. If the WBNS-DT power increase is approved, it would/could become the most powerful UHF DTV in the country.


Might WBNS's application have anything to do with the FCC looking favorably on the use of 'white space' by wireless service providers? Maybe as a test of just what the FCC's ERP rules really are in the new digital age?

I gotta believe the NAB will try anything within its power (sic) to throw a monkey-wrench into the plans of the white-space/wireless movement.

Columbus, OH provides a nice mid-country location with a large terrestrial footprint (i.e. there's not much 'signal reach' wasted over an ocean - and, unlike major cities in the East, there's not much in the way of large megalopolises with lots of occupied frequencies that could otherwise confine the signal). This application seems ready-made for a prolonged legal struggle of just this sort.

Thanks for the heads up, Steve. Very interesting info.

The WBNS-DT app is actually a test of which rule the FCC places at a higher priority. The FCC says conflicting things about power limits.

On the one hand, they say UHF power cannot exceed 1000 kW.

On the other, they say a station can boost power as much as needed to match the coverage of the largest station in the market.

WBNS is trying to use the latter rule to beat the former and go to 1700 kW to get closer to matching WSYX-DT 13.

I personally hope that WBNS gets it.

- Trip

I personally hope that WBNS gets it.
On the other hand, if increasing WBNS's power is going to cause a reduction in WFYI's viewing area due to interference, I hope the FCC does not approve it. Allowing one station to interfere with another as a "test case" sounds like bad policy. I hope the FCC keeps in mind that they have a responsibility to WFYI to maintain its existing viewing area and to the viewers.

Which makes me wonder if there's another channel that either WFYI or WBNS can be moved to that would allow WBNS to match the viewing area of the other stations in its market without interfering with out-of-market stations.

Oh - it's a VHF vs. UHF thing. I guess I let my paranoia run a bit too far. My bad.

I'll be quite honest, I'm having a hard time buying a lot of the FCC's policies as of late, and this is one of them. In the analog world, WRTV and WSYX in Indianapolis and Columbus, respectively, co-existed without issue, and they were on VHF at full power on both. Yet in the world of digital, where the FCC loves telling people that stations can be packed closer together, two UHF signals from the same places are too close?

The FCC is being run by politicians and not by engineers. The white space device fiasco is proof. Somehow, two stations that could have co-existed in analog won't on digital, but thousands of tiny radiators all over the country won't harm reception at all. Right.

- Trip

WTTV-DT 48's request for an increase in ERP and tower height has been approved by the FCC. Sometime next year, WTTV-DT will go from 870 kW (with directional antenna) @ 1043 feet to 1000 kW (with non-directional antenna) @ 1171 feet.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101264867&formid=301&fac_num=56523

Steve

According to this filing with the FCC, look for more full-power delays for WFXW-DT 39. The station just now realized that it was going to move its analog transmitter after Feb. 17?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101285655&formid=337&fac_num=65247

Steve

From what I understand from WFXW station personel, part of the new digital transmitter is being used to keep the analog signal on the air. This is why they are at half power until after Feb.

Here's another update as to why WTWO-DT and WFXW-DT are back at very low power again. This was posted by wtwotech at their website earlier today.......

"Just to let everyone know that we had problems with our new antenna last week. We have a tower crew which will be on site Jan 5th. It may take up to a week to test the whole system out. If no problems are found we plan to put both stations back on full power after that."

Here's hoping the weather is decent for the tower crew beginning Jan. 5.

Steve

I have been in contact with Al Grossniklaus from WTHR. He is aware of the above Direct TV compression problem and has been in contact with Direct TV in an effort to get this solved.

I have no problem with the off-air signal from WTHR, just the Direct TV product.

I am beginning to think this problem is back. I noticed during the Sun Bowl on channel 8 the picture was horrible. Watching the Capital One Bowl today on channel 6 and the picture is also poor quality. I switch to OTA and the picture improves tremendously.

Anyone else on D* noticing their locals picture quality being bad again?

The proposed WTHI-DT 10 post-transition maximization application has been approved (12/17/08) by the FCC. Beginning 2/18/09, after WTHI-DT changes from ch. 24 to ch. 10,WTHI-DT 10 will operate with 27 kW ERP (instead of previously approved 14.2 kW) @ 961 feet (HAAT).
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101259389&formid=301&fac_num=70655

Steve

Do you know that for sure? I know of a number of stations that had maximizations approved but will not operate with them until long after the transition date. WTHI has told the FCC that construction's already complete; if they built equipment that can be just turned up to the appropriate power, then they can do it, but if it requires additional equipment then they'll likely be delayed.

This might require communication with the engineer at the station.

- Trip

I have not had contact with WTHI, but why would this particular maximization approval be delayed? It's classified as a minor modification to a CP with an expiration date of 2/17/09. http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1259389 Meanwhile, WTTV-DT cannot finalize its maximization plans until after the old top-mounted analog antenna is removed from the top of the tower and a new digital antenna is installed. WTTV-DT's recently approved modification to a CP has an expiration date of 4/26/10. http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1264867

This WTHI-DT modification to the CP has displaced its previous CP for 14.2 kW. Both CPs are for a non-directional antenna. And if WTHI-DT is like WTHR-DT, the analog transmitter has been modified over to digital.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=70655

We'll see if a WTHI employee chimes in or maybe another source will update this information.

Steve

Yes, but if the transmitter they already installed will only make 14.2 kW, say they need another cabinet to go up to 27 kW, then they'll probably sign it on at the lower power. I know of some stations that are in that exact situation. They have to get more equipment installed before they can operate at the level specified in the CP Mod. (The one that comes to mind is WHEC in Rochester NY, signing on at 18 kW until later in the year when they'll boost up to 30 kW assuming the Canadians go along with it)

- Trip

Me and a few other friends have also had very poor HD reception via DirectTV since yesterday. Football looks absolutely horrible. Has anyone received any information on what's going on?

Me and a few other friends have also had very poor HD reception via DirectTV since yesterday. Football looks absolutely horrible. Has anyone received any information on what's going on?

I sent Al Grossniklaus at WTHR an e-mail since he apparently helped get it fixed before. Also Tom Weber from WISH regularly posts here so maybe he can help also.

Football on FOX last night seemed to be better. We'll see with today's games how it is.

Nope.... basketball today looks bad. There's simply not enough bandwidth being giving to the video stream. It's fine when there's little motion, but once things get moving it gets way too pixelated.

Nope.... basketball today looks bad. There's simply not enough bandwidth being giving to the video stream. It's fine when there's little motion, but once things get moving it gets way too pixelated.

Make sure and contact the local stations. You can usually find an e-mail for engineering on their website. The more noise we make the better. Hopefully the Colts game tonight will make more people aware of the problem.

My experience is channel 6 and 8 are the worst, with 13 not far behind. Channel 59 seem to be not quite as bad. All you need is an antenna to see how bad it really is. Picture improves dramatically.

I sure hope in February, when Dish Network is purportedly scheduled to finally offer Indy customers HD locals, they don't make the same mistakes bandwidth-wise as is DirecTV.

I sure hope in February, when Dish Network is purportedly scheduled to finally offer Indy customers HD locals, they don't make the same mistakes bandwidth-wise as is DirecTV.

I'll be happy when it's finally available, but I'll also stick to OTA HD for critical viewing.

I haven't had the Direct TV issues that some of you are having. It's looked fine since the problem of a couple of months ago.

The proposed WTHI-DT 10 post-transition maximization application has been approved (12/17/08) by the FCC. Beginning 2/18/09, after WTHI-DT changes from ch. 24 to ch. 10,WTHI-DT 10 will operate with 27 kW ERP (instead of previously approved 14.2 kW) @ 961 feet (HAAT).
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101259389&formid=301&fac_num=70655

Steve

Regarding this initial post as of last Thursday (1/1/09), the official word from WTHI-DT is that all is ready to go! I sent an email to the CE, Jeff Tucker, last Friday, and I received this reply from Jeff this morning.......


"We have all the equipment in place for the 27 KW power level. We will begin DTV transmission on Channel 10 at that power level on February 18. Our new channel 10 DTV transmitter is installed and waiting to be put into service."


Thanks to Jeff for the reply. This nice power increase should help reception in the outlying areas.

Steve

Regarding TVGOS;Trip, I missed one. Our Buffalo sister station is also doing it.No they aren't and there are no plans to do so as of last month. Not to say it won't happen, just that there hasn't been any talk about it.
What is Lin's position on this??

BTW, I talked with a engineer from the closest CBS affilate to Buffalo (Albany), and they are supplying the data via equipment supplied by Macrovision. The data is via the internet, FWIW.

Of these four Lin owned CBS stations which ones are passing TVGOS data or plan to do so?;
WISH, WANE, WLFI, WTHI.

WISH is not but WFYI-DT (PBS) is carrying it.

- Trip

I thought I read eariler in this thread that they were.
Since you travel around, are there any other PBS affilates carrying the data on their digital channel?

The only other non-CBS station that I know of that's carrying TVGOS is XETV-DT in San Diego, and I assume that's because of KFMB-DT's horrible signal issues.

- Trip

WISH is not but WFYI-DT (PBS) is carrying it.

- Trip

Trip,
Just currious...Is there any way to read this data, without a TVGOS device, to see how complete it is. I've read on the Thread for the Echostar DTVPal DVR's that some people in various DMA's don't seem to have complete data for all the channels. Might be a problem with the DVR's (they seem to have a few), or might be a TVGOS system problem. I'd like to know if I can actually get each station's TVGOS data for my DMA from WFIY, before I buy one of these things.

Thanks for your input,

First, are you talking about analog or digital?
Second, if it analog, you would need something that can read data from the VBI and be able to select any line,
Third, you would have to be able to extract that data into a program or another device to interpertate it into something meaningful.

Now, if you are talking about digital, since there isn't a VBI in a digital signal (at least not in the conventional sense), you would need a receiver to extract the needed data (where ever it is situated) from the TS (Transport Stream) of that channel and convert that into meaningfull text.

Can't wait to find something under $10k. ;)

Unfortunately, I only know how to tell if the data is present, nothing about what the data contains. I hope to figure that out at some point, but so far, I haven't figured it out.

- Trip

Re: TVGOS ---- The digital television standard, ATSC, calls for inclusion of Program-Specific Information (termed PSIP, the last p stands for protocol). This is supposed to carry program information, including detailed info for episodes. Here's a URL for the full ATSC section for PSIP: http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_65cr1_with_amend_1.pdf

Unfortunately, the TV manufacturers are not enabling their sets to present this information to their users. Broadcasters must transmit and cable/satellite carriers must carry this information, but the manufacturers aren't bound by that FCC rule. So, they're selling multi-hundred/thousand dollar sets that are 'crippled' and don't deliver a valuable feature designed into the ATSC standard. ALL manufacturers have chosen to do this, quite possibly with the full encouragement, support and assistance of the cable companies, so that more over-the-air users will be steered (needlessly) into their clutches. It sucks. Really sucks.

P.S. My set-top Samsung digital tuner provides one-button access to this information. Over the past year, I have found NO current digital TV that delivers this PSIP information to a viewer. You can thank the federal government, the FCC and the CEA and the TV manufacturers for this fine approach to adopting and disseminating a new standard.

You have to add the NCTA, CableLabs, the MPAA, Sony, and 30 years of a 'big business' favored White House. :mad:

I just saw something today that WHMB TV 40 will be shutting down their analog service early. I think it was 1/16. Is this correct? When I went to their webpage, I didn't see any mention of it.

I just saw something today that WHMB TV 40 will be shutting down their analog service early. I think it was 1/16. Is this correct? When I went to their webpage, I didn't see any mention of it.

Yes, you are correct, at least according to an FCC filing from WHMB.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101285420&formid=387&fac_num=37102

Back in May, the station filed to reduce its ERP from 2090 kW to 1045 kW due to a main "tube failure" in the transmitter. Other analog stations with similar issues have filed for early shutdowns, too. WNIT-34, South Bend (PBS) went off the air back in June (IIRC) when the final tube in its analog transmitter died. According to WNIT, the cost of a new tube was in the neighborhood of $40, 000. The station decided to save the money and sign off early.

WHMB-DT 16 (40.1 & 40.2) is currently operating with 163 kW (directional antenna) @ 991 feet (HAAT). The station has an application before the FCC to move to channel 20 sometime after the transition (2/17/09....or ????? after yesterday's comments by the President-Elect) and if/when approved, currently has until 8/18/09 to make the channel change.

Steve

Actually, the channel change has to be approved by Canada, so any deadlines imposed on WHMB to convert from 16 to 20 are tolled until such approval is received.

And yes, I know, it's ridiculous that Canada has to approve such things all the way down in Indianapolis.

- Trip

Hi. I pre-apologize if this question has been asked before, but I couldn't find anything pertintent when I searched the forum(s). Here goes. I just recently purchased a Samsung TV capable of OTA and clear-QAM digital reception. When I did a scan for channels on cable (Comcast-old Insight) and OTA channels 21-9 and 21-10 appeared on both scans. However, there is no audio or video, yet from my NE side Indianapolis home I get a "needle-pegged" signal. What type of channels are they or will they be in the future? Thanks in advance.

Alex

Hi. I pre-apologize if this question has been asked before, but I couldn't find anything pertintent when I searched the forum(s). Here goes. I just recently purchased a Samsung TV capable of OTA and clear-QAM digital reception. When I did a scan for channels on cable (Comcast-old Insight) and OTA channels 21-9 and 21-10 appeared on both scans. However, there is no audio or video, yet from my NE side Indianapolis home I get a "needle-pegged" signal. What type of channels are they or will they be in the future? Thanks in advance.

Alex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV

- Trip

It seems to me that Comcast here in Bloomington is constantly changing the QAM channels around. I have to rescan quite often.
So don't be surprised if those channels go away or suddenly contain programming.

I have one of the dtvpals. I am getting 7 days of tvgos for every channel except 59 and 42. 42 is only giving spotty info (24 hrs for 42-4 basically nothing for any of the others) and 59 is giving not quite 3 days.

WISHTV is asleep at wheel. They've got the AFC Divisional game between Baltimore and Tennessee in SD. Wake up!!!

WISHTV is asleep at wheel. They've got the AFC Divisional game between Baltimore and Tennessee in SD. Wake up!!!

It's 5:08 PM, and they apparently paid attention to your concern. High def OTA 8-1 here in Bloomington, IN.

I have one of the dtvpals. I am getting 7 days of tvgos for every channel except 59 and 42. 42 is only giving spotty info (24 hrs for 42-4 basically nothing for any of the others) and 59 is giving not quite 3 days.

I take you have the dtvpal DVR!!!
Glad to hear that it works well for the Indianapolis stations.

Duane

I have one of the dtvpals. I am getting 7 days of tvgos for every channel except 59 and 42. 42 is only giving spotty info (24 hrs for 42-4 basically nothing for any of the others) and 59 is giving not quite 3 days.

Good to hear....Is that with a the DVR version of the DTVPal box?
I'm hopping to pick up a DTVPal DVR when they get the bugs worked out of them, or someone from my area has one that works without many reboots and lockups. Some have surmised that the problem is a TVGOS issue. I don't think anyone knows for sure yet.
Knowing that we have TVGOS for this area, makes it one step closer for a "good buy". :D
The TVGOS data for the Indy market comes from WFYI, but from what I've read it's supposed to be from CBS (WISH). I just hope it doesn't get cut off due to some contract issue post change-over.

If it's on WFYI-DT, it's where it's supposed to be. I'm told LIN corporate policy will not allow TVGOS for some reason...

- Trip

Viewers are reporting that WTWO-DT 36 (2.1) has once again powered-up, while WFXW-DT 39 (38.1) is still at low power.
http://mywabashvalley.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1391

Steve

WISHTV is asleep at wheel. They've got the AFC Divisional game between Baltimore and Tennessee in SD. Wake up!!!

Not the first time, unfortunately...

President-Elect Barack Obama’s call to delay the scheduled switchover to all-digital television next month.

Read on MSNBC.

I have a DirecTV HR20 and I have ran the antenna setup. After the scan for local channels most of them have come up on the list except one. It's not a big deal but it is a channel I would like to have. The channel I'm missing is 10.2 which is WTHI out of Terre Haute, Indiana. It is a channel that is dedicated to weather. I get 10.1 with no problem and the signal strength on that channel is 100. When I had a DirecTV Tivo I was able to get 10.2. Anyone have a suggestion on how I could "force" the issue with the HR20 (if possible) to get it to come in? DirecTV doesn't provide locals in my area so I have to get it using an over-the-air antenna.

Also, I live in Odon, Indiana. With my antenna I'm able to pick up 2.1, 10.2 and 38.1. I have a pretty big antenna. Not sure how tall it is but it goes well above the roof. I would estimate it goes at least 15 feet above the roof. Anyway, does anyone know if I will be able to get more channels once they turn off analog? I was hoping to be able to pull in Indianapolis or possibly Evansville when everything went digital. I'm not sure what type of antenna I have. I do have a signal booster.

Thanks guys.

I have a DirecTV HR20 and I have ran the antenna setup. After the scan for local channels most of them have come up on the list except one. It's not a big deal but it is a channel I would like to have. The channel I'm missing is 10.2 which is WTHI out of Terre Haute, Indiana. It is a channel that is dedicated to weather. I get 10.1 with no problem and the signal strength on that channel is 100. When I had a DirecTV Tivo I was able to get 10.2. Anyone have a suggestion on how I could "force" the issue with the HR20 (if possible) to get it to come in? DirecTV doesn't provide locals in my area so I have to get it using an over-the-air antenna.

Also, I live in Odon, Indiana. With my antenna I'm able to pick up 2.1, 10.2 and 38.1. I have a pretty big antenna. Not sure how tall it is but it goes well above the roof. I would estimate it goes at least 15 feet above the roof. Anyway, does anyone know if I will be able to get more channels once they turn off analog? I was hoping to be able to pull in Indianapolis or possibly Evansville when everything went digital. I'm not sure what type of antenna I have. I do have a signal booster.

Thanks guys.

I've never used the HR20 receiver, so I'm not sure why it's not receiving 10.2. Obviously it's not a signal issue if your signal strength from WTHI-DT is 100 and you're able to receive 10.1 without issue.

I pulled up the post-transition DTV results for Odon, IN 47562 via www.tvfool.com and attached them below. Per your description, I plugged in 25 feet as the height of your antenna above ground level (AGL). You may need to readjust this figure and if you can plug in your actual address you should get a more accurate station listing.

Apparently you must have a lot of hills and/or rolling terrain in the area as WVUT-DT, Vincennes @ 29 miles is the only station within line-of-sight (LOS). Even at 35 miles, the Terre Haute signals are not within LOS. With this in mind, your antenna setup must be quite good to receive WFXW-DT at low power (<2 kW).

Otherwise, stations from markets like Indy, Louisville and Evansville are 70-83 miles. You will definitely need a very high gain/directional antenna with a very good preamp, rotator to provide the correct azimuth reading for each station, along with as much height as possible for the antenna. With signals beyond LOS (1edge and 2edge) you'll need to get it above as many obstructions as possible (houses, barns, trees, hills, etc.).

I've read reports that some viewers south of Bloomington have decent luck receiving some of the Louisville DTVs. Your best shots there would most likely include WDRB-DT 49 (41.1), WAVE-DT 47 (3.1) and WMYO-DT 51 (58.1). As for an ABC affiliate station in your area, WHAS-DT 55, Louisville is the closest @ 70 miles. Provided the DTV transition is not delayed, WHAS-DT will switch from ch. 55 to ch. 11, Feb. 18th.

Good luck and let us know how things work out for you.

Steve

Viewers are reporting that WTWO-DT 36 (2.1) has once again powered-up, while WFXW-DT 39 (38.1) is still at low power.
http://mywabashvalley.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1391

Steve

WTWO-DT is indeed powered up. I was at my Dad's house in Linton this evening and managed to pull in 2.1 with an indoor unamplified antenna. The antenna had to placed just right, but that's normal with indoor antennas. The result was a signal level of 63 on his Dish Network VIP722.

I have a DirecTV HR20 and I have ran the antenna setup. After the scan for local channels most of them have come up on the list except one. It's not a big deal but it is a channel I would like to have. The channel I'm missing is 10.2 which is WTHI out of Terre Haute, Indiana. It is a channel that is dedicated to weather. I get 10.1 with no problem and the signal strength on that channel is 100. When I had a DirecTV Tivo I was able to get 10.2. Anyone have a suggestion on how I could "force" the issue with the HR20 (if possible) to get it to come in? DirecTV doesn't provide locals in my area so I have to get it using an over-the-air antenna.

Also, I live in Odon, Indiana. With my antenna I'm able to pick up 2.1, 10.2 and 38.1. I have a pretty big antenna. Not sure how tall it is but it goes well above the roof. I would estimate it goes at least 15 feet above the roof. Anyway, does anyone know if I will be able to get more channels once they turn off analog? I was hoping to be able to pull in Indianapolis or possibly Evansville when everything went digital. I'm not sure what type of antenna I have. I do have a signal booster.

Thanks guys.

The DirecTV HR20 does not allow you to actually "Scan" for OTA channels. The channels listed after performing the antenna setup are based on your zip code and are maintained by DirecTV (I think). If you do not see 10.2 in the list of OTA channels after you perform the setup, you will need to call DirecTV and have them correct their database.

yes, I have the new dtvpal dvr. I've had 2 reboots but no lockups. I've had the unit since around dec 26.

The folks at WISHTV are repeating their election night mistake right now with the school closing information. They are verticaly compressing Letterman right now. WTHR and WRTV know how to do it...

Added an additional 5 ft in height to my antenna setup and what a difference it has made. Once again I'm 9 miles north/west of Terre Haute.

I now receive the ION channel out of Bloomington without any pixelation 24/7

CW4 I would guess is coming in 80% of the time and WCLJ 60%.

As always WTIU has never been a problem and the height difference has really helped my problem with WCIA out of Champaign Illinois.

So I'm pretty much good to go at this point and pleased at least with what I can receive OTA. I'm still using the old school Channel Master 4228 with CM7775 preamp. OTA box is a 3rd generation LG tuner.
CBS 10-1 out of THaute
NBC 36-1 out of THaute
FOX 39-1 out of Thaute
ABC 15-1 out of Chamapaign Illinois
PBS 14-1 out of Bloomington
ION 27-1 out of Bloomington
CLJ 56-1 out of Bloomington (sort of)
CW4 48-1 out of Bloomington (sort of)

Courtesy of the FCC, here are maps of the coverage areas (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/) of the nations TV stations, analog to digital. Notice how the Terre Haute (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Terre_Haute_IN.pdf) stations are really close to the west side of Indy!

Also, WHMB analog is now off the air. First station to go all digital in Indy??

Anyone know how good the Indy HD locals look on U-verse compared to OTA? Switching to U-verse on January 31. Have had Dish Network for 12 years and am tired of them.

Anyone know how good the Indy HD locals look on U-verse compared to OTA? Switching to U-verse on January 31. Have had Dish Network for 12 years and am tired of them.

I looked at UVerse (and Indy's locals in HD) at an AT&T store and at a friend's house, and to be honest, I thought they looked horrible. The color was super-saturated compared to the other HD channels, and there were tons of compression artifacts.

I think UVerse is interesting, so I'll be very curious to hear your report once you get it installed (especially HD quality).

Anyone know how good the Indy HD locals look on U-verse compared to OTA? Switching to U-verse on January 31. Have had Dish Network for 12 years and am tired of them.I would really reconsider that decision. Picture, as Jeff said is HORRID and equipment is also.

The folks at WISHTV are repeating their election night mistake right now with the school closing information. They are verticaly compressing Letterman right now. WTHR and WRTV know how to do it...

I wonder if it is an issue of competence or attentiveness?

Jrcorwin is entitled to his/her opinion, but we have looked at what we are doing.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Jrcorwin is entitled to his/her opinion, but we have looked at what we are doing.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering
I'm not trying to be sarcastic or critical with this question, but what does that mean?

It's clear that WTHR has a superior way of displaying their ticker.

WRTV was in 2nd place (in my opinion) during the election coverage at least. While they have a ticker similar to WISH, they chose to display the 16:9 source with out distorting the image.

WISH for some odd reason believes that compressing the image vertically and giving us that stretch-o-vision look is acceptable. While they may not have the proper equipment to achieve the same look at WTHR, they could certainly give us something better that what we see now.

I prefer the WISH newscast and crew. I prefer some of the programming on WISH/CBS. I just get tired of WISH being content with 2nd or 3rd place. I would love to see them compete. WTHR was way ahead of both. Then WISH came along. WRTV came around last, but they seem to be a bit more agressive.

My personal preference is for a station to shrink an image, thus preserving the original aspect ratio, to make room for a crawl. Squeezing an image and distorting it makes me feel like I am looking at fun-house mirrors.

As expected, not everyone agrees with my personal preference. I believe what Tom is saying is that WISH has made a conscious decision to use the method they are using. It just isn't the method I would have selected.

My personal preference is for a station to shrink an image, thus preserving the original aspect ratio, to make room for a crawl. Squeezing an image and distorting it makes me feel like I am looking at fun-house mirrors.

As expected, not everyone agrees with my personal preference. I believe what Tom is saying is that WISH has made a conscious decision to use the method they are using. It just isn't the method I would have selected.
I agree with you. I would put the squeezing technique right up there with the horrible stretching job done by TNT, TBS, USA and others at times. How in the world can someone make a decision to display something like that and be proud of it?

mhowie asked (nicely) whether we were incompetent and/or inattentive.

The answer is, neither. The people here who make decisions have looked at our procedures (thus we are not not inattentive) and decided that they like the way we are doing it.

We are capable of doing our bottom-screen information in another manner, thus we are not incapable (incompetent) of doing what is requested.

I'm sorry you don't like it. We cannot please everyone. Anyone who feels strongly about it should make their feelings known to our General Manager.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY

mhowie asked (nicely) whether we were incompetent and/or inattentive.

The answer is, neither. The people here who make decisions have looked at our procedures (thus we are not not inattentive) and decided that they like the way we are doing it.

We are capable of doing our bottom-screen information in another manner, thus we are not incapable (incompetent) of doing what is requested.

I'm sorry you don't like it. We cannot please everyone. Anyone who feels strongly about it should make their feelings known to our General Manager.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY

Will do. Thank you for the response. A General Manger like that does nothing but keep WISH from doing better than it is.

I agree with you. I would put the squeezing technique right up there with the horrible stretching job done by TNT, TBS, USA and others at times. How in the world can someone make a decision to display something like that and be proud of it?


They can make that decision exactly the same way some viewers decide to stretch the image of a 4:3 broadcast to fill their new 16:9 screen.

It is a free country.

They can make that decision exactly the same way some viewers decide to stretch the image of a 4:3 broadcast to fill their new 16:9 screen.

It is a free country.
It sure is, but I can't imagine being the person who makes that decision and then being proud of what I have accomplished and satisfied with the quality of the broadcast.

Something tells me that Tom is a bit more of an HD enthusiast than his superiors and he wouldn't have made the same decision.

Will do. Thank you for the response. A General Manger like that does nothing but keep WISH from doing better than it is.

And an engineer willing to take time out of his busy day to talk to us here in the forum is a blessing:)

Congrats to WIPB-49 for reminding viewers 24/7 that they need to get ready for DTV. I've posted a screenshot of the analog feed below, which includes the line, "If you can read this text, you're not DTV ready!" In addition to this line, a web address and a phone number alternate across the bottom of the screen. The main video screen has been reduced in size to allow room for the text lines. Meanwhile, the DTV feed is free of this info (DTV pic below, too).

The DTV delay plan being considered in Congress gives local broadcasters the option to delay, but does not require them to do so. I'm curious about what our Indy locals will choose to do if this passes.

The DTV delay plan being considered in Congress gives local broadcasters the option to delay, but does not require them to do so. I'm curious about what our Indy locals will choose to do if this passes.

The Fed is really going to mess thing up, if they leave it up to the stations to switch or not. Aren't there stations that have to coordinate their change, both here in this Country and in Canada? They need to pick a date... drop a flag.... and get to it.
No matter how long they wait, there is always going to be procrastinators, and people that just can't afford a new antenna, box, and labor to make it all work without loosing some of their channels.

New FCC filings indicate that some analog stations still plan to cease broadcasting as of 2/17/09, regardless of what Congress decides this week/next week. I'm not sure what the local stations will do, if given the option.

Just northeast of us, WFWA-39, Fort Wayne, IN (PBS) plans to cease analog broadcasts as of 2/17/09. One reason listed is due to additional costs associated with operating the analog transmitter....."SINCE THE ESTABLISHMENT IN 2005 OF FEBRUARY 17, 2009 AS THE DEADLINE FOR ALL TELEVISION STATIONS TO TERMINATE ANALOG BROADCAST SERVICE, THE STATION HAS PLANNED AND BUDGETED TO TRANSITION AS OF FEBRUARY 17, 2009. CONTINUED ANALOG OPERATION BEYOND THE EXISTING DTV TRANSITION DEADLINE PLACES THE STATION IN FINANCIAL HARDSHIP, INCLUDING UNBUDGETED COSTS FOR MAINTENANCE OF THE ANALOG FACILITY AND ELECTRICAL POWER CONSUMPTION."
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101291377&formid=910&fac_num=22108

Also, the CBS affiliate in Nashville, TN, WTVF-5/DT-56, just filed to kill the analog transmitter 2/17/09. This station will then switch its DTV from ch. 56 to ch. 5, being one of the few low-VHF DTV stations post-transition.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101291297&formid=910&fac_num=36504

Congrats to WIPB-49 for reminding viewers 24/7 that they need to get ready for DTV.

Meanwhile, the DTV feed is free of this info.

I wondered if Comcast had this handled correctly. I checked and their analog feed was free of the warning message. They don't carry the digital signal, at least in New Castle.

This warning is much harder to ignore than crawls and public service annoucements. PSAs just tend to get lost in the commercial clutter. If this message doesn't get the procrastinators moving, nothing will (except their screen turning to snow).

Senate Agrees To Move DTV Transition Date
Must be reconciled with House version of the bill

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1113370

Anyone know how good the Indy HD locals look on U-verse compared to OTA? Switching to U-verse on January 31. Have had Dish Network for 12 years and am tired of them.

I can not compare OTA HDTV w/U-Verse but I can tell you that UV's HD is not nearly as good as Comcast's HD. BUT UV has superior SD channels, superior to my Zenith converter box DTV and Comcast's SD's. Plus I like the fact that I can record 4 shows at once and watch them on non-DVR STB in the rest of the house.

There are UV forums at uverseusers.com and U-Talk through ATT's website. Be very aware however - there are many on those forums who love UV's HD. Not sure what they are watching / smoking. :p

I can not compare OTA HDTV w/U-Verse but I can tell you that UV's HD is not nearly as good as Comcast's HD. BUT UV has superior SD channels, superior to my Zenith converter box DTV and Comcast's SD's. Plus I like the fact that I can record 4 shows at once and watch them on non-DVR STB in the rest of the house.

There are UV forums at uverseusers.com and U-Talk through ATT's website. Be very aware however - there are many on those forums who love UV's HD. Not sure what they are watching / smoking. :p

Yeah, if they could clean up their HD (not sure it's possible given the copper-based technology), UVerse would be unbeatable.

Hi all, just found this forum while researching my latest issue.

I'm running a mythbox in Lebanon IN and I'm having some repeating EIT issues.

WTHR keeps dropping details and putting in large blocks of DTV Program. By deleting and rescanning the transport I can get it to self correct for about 2 weeks.

WXIN has only a few program showing in EIT/PSIP almost all are news or daytime talk/game shows. All other times are going with no data.

If I use my tv's tuner I can see accurate program data for the current show on WXIN (no guide on my 32" HP TV)

I use a DB4 antenna in a 1st floor apartment and my signal is fair to strong with occasional fades when cars go by out front. In 3 weeks the antenna will be in my new house's attic, but I don't see these problems being strength related, so I fear they will not go away.

Anyone seeing similar things?

WCLJ-DT 42 (currently operating on ch. 56) has been granted a power increase to 850 kW. Since WCLJ-42 signed off 11/19/08, the station has been working toward transitioning to channel 42.

Although Congress is likely to delay the end of analog TV to June, the latest bill still includes the option that "broadcasters still will be allowed to go all-digital earlier if they want." With this in mind, several Midwest stations have filed within the past few days to silence their analog stations as of 2/17/09 and transition to digital-only. Those include WHAS-11, Louisville (ABC) with DT from ch. 55 to ch. 11; WSJV-28, Elkhart/South Bend (Fox) with DT from ch. 58 to ch. 28; WGTE-30, Toledo (PBS) with DT remaining on ch. 29; and WGEM-10, Quincy, IL (NBC) with DT from ch. 54 to ch. 10.

Plus, WNDU-16, South Bend (NBC) has filed with the intent to silence their analog station on or after 2/16/09. WNDU-DT will remain on ch. 42.

Steve

Is anybody else in the Indianapolis area seeing a 21.9 and a 21.10? My Sony 40S3000 is picking them up when I scan for channels. They appear to be subchannels that WFYI is transmitting, but there's no content.

Is anybody else in the Indianapolis area seeing a 21.9 and a 21.10? My Sony 40S3000 is picking them up when I scan for channels. They appear to be subchannels that WFYI is transmitting, but there's no content.

What is your signal source when you scan and see 21.9 and 21.10? (OTA, QAM, cable, satellite, etc.)

Sorry, left out that crucial piece of information.

It's OTA using the tuner in the Sony. Antenna is rabbit ears inside the house at about 8' AGL. I'm roughly 13 miles from the transmitter.

Sorry, left out that crucial piece of information.

It's OTA using the tuner in the Sony. Antenna is rabbit ears inside the house at about 8' AGL. I'm roughly 13 miles from the transmitter.

I'm not sure why you are receiving those sub numbers. I just scanned WFYI-DT via the Insignia NS-DXA1 (CECB) and OTA, and I didn't find those subs. My Sony KDS-R60XBR1 sometimes comes up with some strange channel and subchannel numbers, especially when I attempt to use QAM from Bright House. This TV is generally used via the digital/DVR receiver from B.H.

Maybe somebody else can help you. Sorry.

Steve