UCLA-Villanova game looks pretty good to me both OTA and via Brighthouse. This is on a Sony 40" 720p HDTV at about 10 feet. I believe there is some blurring or grain to the hardwood floor in halfcourt shots when the camera moves, but it sharpens up when the camera stops.


I'm told the blurring is a function of the vertical refresh rate of the monitor. What's its vertical frequency?

Since about Friday, I've been dealing with a lot of pixellation issues. Has anyone else been having trouble with their signals the past couple days? Or just me? Nothing has changed with my setup... antenna hasn't moved... nothing.

The Sunday night Animation block on Fox was decent, but did have some pixellation -- and thats one station I've never seen pixellation issues on. My Heroes recording on Monday on NBC had some minor issues... as did How I Met Your Mother on CBS. Tonight, The Mentalist on CBS was perfectly fine -- but my Boston Legal recordings from ION have been a real mess.

Well now wait a second, I just realized something. Friday was the day they replaced the siding on the outside of our building around our apartment. But its the same material, looks to be the same exact siding really... Surely that couldn't have caused all of these problems I've been seeing, could it?

Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Eric

OTA can be affected by atmospheric conditions. The troposhpere or ionosphere can reflect signals and cause multi-path challenges to receivers, which presumably can lead to pixelization.

We're entering spring time and I think these conditions become a bit more common, tho' still unusual and temporary (they disappear in hours). I remember being surprised one morning to get a crystal clear picture from Cincinnati's NBC affiliate when my antennas were directed due north toward Indy. The picture was gone within hours.

Say, I'm still interested in learning more about your MythTV setup. Where are some good resources to learn more?

OTA can be affected by atmospheric conditions. The troposhpere or ionosphere can reflect signals and cause multi-path challenges to receivers, which presumably can lead to pixelization.

We're entering spring time and I think these conditions become a bit more common, tho' still unusual and temporary (they disappear in hours). I remember being surprised one morning to get a crystal clear picture from Cincinnati's NBC affiliate when my antennas were directed due north toward Indy. The picture was gone within hours.

Say, I'm still interested in learning more about your MythTV setup. Where are some good resources to learn more?

Thanks for the info, T. I'll kept an eye on my recordings to see if this problem continues, or if it clears itself up randomly. If it doesn't, maybe I'll just have to force myself to replace my $10 antenna... hehe :-D "force" myself, of course.

I had TOTALLY forgotten to respond to your questions about Myth... I am going to do that RIGHT now. Sorry about that!!!

Thanks
Eric

Who would miss sending a big check to Comcast every month? Welcome to OTA, Eric. I'll be interested in reading more about your Hauppauge set up in the future. Don't be shy in posting here.

And I'll second your commendation of Steve Goldrich in this forum. I owe my successful (& now over 2-year old) OTA setup to his contributions and those of a handful of others.

All I'm missing now is 1) a DVR capability (I'm slowing moving toward Linux); and 2) a properly functioning EPG (electronic program guide required in part A65/C of the ATSC standard). See [url]http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_65cr1_with_amend_1.pdf[/url

Yeah, I can't imagine anyone missing sending Comcast a check... and especially after the horrendous hassle I went through with cancelling their services, I told my roommate we're NEVER going back :-p We had U-Verse at our old apartment, but its still not become available here... which is the ONLY reason we signed back up with Comcast in the first place. But anyway, I digress. :)

As far as MythTV, as I've said before, I *love* my MythTV setup... and I don't know what I'd do without it. Every service-based (Comcast, U-Verse) DVR I've used has sucked and leaves out tons of great features, compared to what MythTV can do. I've had a MythTV box for a couple of years now, and truly, its changed how I watch TV.

My MythTV setup started with a single analog tuner card in a spare computer full of old parts. I didn't wanna put a lot of money into it until I knew it was gonna work out. Now, I have two ATSC tuners, and that same analog tuner. The analog tuner only gets used when I need to digitize some old VCR tapes or something, which can be handy for old family stuff... another neat thing Myth helps me do. I'm probably going to end up adding a third ATSC tuner at some point, because between my roommate and I, Thursday nights are a recording nightmare. :)

The quick and easy way to get started with MythTV is to download one of the "ready to go" Myth distros, like MythDora, Mythbuntu or LinHES (formerly known as KnoppMyth). These distros make it super easy to get a Myth box up and running. Install the distro, and Linux and MythTV and all the required packages are already installed, setup and ready to go. Of course, MythTV can also be installed on top of any Linux distribution... In fact my Myth box runs Slackware Linux.

Guide data comes from SchedulesDirect (Zap2it, on the back-end)... It used to be free, but it now costs $20/year... which is definitely worth it, if you ask me. Its a whole helluva lot cheaper than the alternatives. Myth's scheduler is REALLY smart, and can move around when it records stuff to make sure it can record as much stuff as you'd like it to. The feature that I love the most is the fact that it remembers what its recorded... and unless you tell it to, it won't record it again. The AT&T/Comcast DVR's I've used in the past were not smart enough to remember what they had previously recorded, so they'd record the same episode of a show over, and over, and over again.

Really all ya need to get going is a spare computer, a tuner card, and some way to control it while sitting on your couch. Hauppauge tuner cards, which are what I use, are generally very well supported by Linux and MythTV, so those are ones I often recommend to people. My cards came with a remote control, which is what I use to control my box. One of these days I'm going to get a wireless keyboard as well, to make it easier to do Hulu and what-not on the TV via Firefox.

You had asked for some good resources to learn more about MythTV... I'd recommend the MythTV website, and particularly its Wiki... Lots of information in the Wiki, especially regarding hardware that works, doesn't work, etc. The websites for the MythTV-specific distros I mentioned above all have forums, which are quite helpful as well. I also participate on the MythTV mailing list, lots of activity on the list, but some very knowledgeable users and the dev's post on there as well.

Whew, I wrote a lot huh. Hopefully I answered some of the questions you had about Myth. I'd be more than glad to answer any specific questions you have... just post and I'll answer!

Thanks!
--Eric

Yeah, I can't imagine anyone missing sending Comcast a check... and especially after the horrendous hassle I went through with cancelling their services, I told my roommate we're NEVER going back :-p We had U-Verse at our old apartment, but its still not become available here... which is the ONLY reason we signed back up with Comcast in the first place. But anyway, I digress. :)


You had a hard time canceling? That's interesting. I've never had any trouble since there is no contract.

You had a hard time canceling? That's interesting. I've never had any trouble since there is no contract.

Cancelling wasn't the hard part... Being done with them was. :) I cancelled, was told a final bill would be mailed out... and that I owed xx$ Great. Two weeks later, no final bill. I call in again... told that the final bill can't be sent out until the actually disconnect has happened, and that was happening the next day, so the final bill would go out after that, oh and you owe $yy. Okay? Odd, I've now been told I owe two different amounts, but okay, whatever. I'll verify it when the final bill does arrive.

Two weeks later, still no final bill... but I did get a letter from Comcast. DEMANDING I pay them within 10 business days, or they were going to send me to collections. For a bill I *never* received, and had inquired about... multiple times. I was quite annoyed to say the least. I called, was told a *third* different amount was what I owed... less than the two previous amounts, mind you...

The rep on the phone told me why I hadn't received a final bill in the mail was because I was set up for e-billing. Except... About two days after my account was closed, I could no longer log into my online account to CHECK my bills. And NONE of the reps I talked to in those times when I asked about a final bill had said anything about the e-billing thing... in fact, they specifically said the bill would be mailed to me.

So anyway, I made the guy fax me a copy of the bill, that minute... which did appear to be right (amazingly), and I paid it. See that wasn't that hard. They coulda got their money a month before if they had just sent me a bloody bill! This is all just another example of the incompetence that is Comcast.

Thanks!
--Eric

I love the info, Eric -- on MythTV and getting rid of Comcast. Thank you.

I'm on the verge of installing Linux, to escape the clutches of mighty M$, whom I hate as much as you must now despise Comcast. You've outlined the setup pretty clearly. As I progress, I may need to raise a query, but the sites you list should be sufficient.

BTW: I laughed when you mention the recording hell that Thursday night is for you and your roommate! Thanks again.

I love the info, Eric -- on MythTV and getting rid of Comcast. Thank you.

I'm on the verge of installing Linux, to escape the clutches of mighty M$, whom I hate as much as you must now despise Comcast. You've outlined the setup pretty clearly. As I progress, I may need to raise a query, but the sites you list should be sufficient.

BTW: I laughed when you mention the recording hell that Thursday night is for you and your roommate! Thanks again.

Glad I could be of some assistance. Like I said, if you run into any probs when trying to get it going, let me know, I'll try to offer a hand.

Thursday nights are just awful. I watch the stuff on NBC (except that awful show after Earl)... we both watch Hell's Kitchen... Roommate likes CSI... and now theres something on ABC that I wanted to watch, Motherhood, but there was no way I was going to even try. lol. I'd need 4 tuners for Thursday night if I wanted everything! heh.

--Eric

WFYI seems to be broadcasting nothing but Spanish-language programming on 20.2, including earlier today some Australian home-improvement show that was dubbed over into Spanish. (Those Aussies seem to speak impeccable Spanish!) I've noticed this the last few days, which suggests it started on April 1.

I thought maybe I'd inadvertently hit the SAP button, but no -- this stream is all Spanish. It bears a "V/em" log in the upper right corner. I can't find this on Google (at least not yet).

Did WFYI announce somewhere sometime that they would be giving over one of their digital channels to Spanish-language programming? Was this by choice or was this a requirement imposed by the FCC? I'm totally in the dark on this.

BTW: Does anyone know what share of the population in central Indiana is Spanish-speaking? I think it's a lot lower today than it was a couple of years ago.

For the past few weeks I've been having problems with the NASCAR races on Fox. I can watch other HD content on WXIN and on other channels, but as soon as WXIN switches to the NASCAR feed, the video portion of the feed seems to drop out entirely. SD content (such as commercials) still comes through fine.

I had problems during the Vegas race, and I e-mailed WXIN about it. They indicated that there was an equipment failure on the network feed, and HD had not been available. The following week (Atlanta) there were no problems, but all three races since then (Bristol, Martinsville and Texas) have had the problem - no video on the HD feed.

I get HD over-the-air through a Pinnacle PCTV HD USB stick, plugged into a Windows Media Center PC. Like I said above, all other SD and HD content on WXIN and other channels comes in fine - it has just been the last few weeks of NASCAR that has had any problems.

Any ideas? WXIN haven't responded to any further queries, so I don't have any idea whether they changed hardware or something just isn't set up right. My setup hasn't changed, and the fact that everything *except* NASCAR works suggests to me that it's something either at WXIN or the network.

WFYI seems to be broadcasting nothing but Spanish-language programming on 20.1, including earlier today some Australian home-improvement show that was dubbed over into Spanish.....
I'm totally in the dark on this....


I'm just as in the dark as you are (my Spanish station is 20-2). But I'm betting on political correctness and your tax dollars at work!:)

I thought maybe I'd inadvertently hit the SAP button, but no -- this stream is all Spanish. It bears a "V/em" log in the upper right corner. I can't find this on Google (at least not yet).

That's because you misspelled V-Me (http://www.v-me.org/).

- Trip

I'm just as in the dark as you are (my Spanish station is 20-2). But I'm betting on political correctness and your tax dollars at work!:)


I found something on V-me. It's from March 2007, announcing the start up of "a Spanish-language television network presented by public television". http://www.vmetv.com/_files/_official_pr/FinalEnglishRelease_0305.pdf

I guess it's spreading city by city. Looking forward to watching "Extreme Makeover" or the "Biggest Loser" dubbed into Spanish. Ole'!!

Still interested in learning what % of central Indiana's population speaks Spanish. This site says 3.9% for the entire state. http://projects.washingtonpost.com/elections/keyraces/census/in/

So that's reason enough for public broadcasting to devote one-third of its channels to serve this population? I suppose they arrived at that by dividing 3 channels by 3.9% and rounding to the nearest one. That's the "New Math", isn't it? Close enough for government work, right?

Sheesh!! Like this will really help PBS raise more money....

I'm getting a crystal-clear OTA signal for the race today. I wonder if its something with your USB stick tuner.

...................
Sheesh!! Like this will really help PBS raise more money....

Well....several Countries are complaining about our currency and want to do away with the Dollar, so perhaps PBS thinks we're going to switch to the Peso. :D

Nat: I mis-typed the channel on WFYI -- its 20.2, not 20.1. I've corrected my mistake in the initial post. Thanks for pointing it out.

This is amazing. I watch a *ton* of PBS, but had no idea they had this up their sleeve. Or is WFYI's engineer asleep at the switch?

If you check the TV schedules on WFYI's web site, they list the V-me programming on 20.2. Clearly, they've decided to address the Spanish-speaking population in central Indiana...which seems to be growing, though I have no numbers to support that assumption. Drive West Washington Street in Indianapolis from Harding to I-465 or go to a small town, like Frankfort, and note all the businesses with signs in Spanish.

For those of you who are Comcast customers in areas that used to be served by Insight...we now have HD On Demand.

I have looked at a few HD shows and some of them look good. There are a few that look bad. Over all I am happy with the addition of HD on demand.

Brad

If you check the TV schedules on WFYI's web site, they list the V-me programming on 20.2. Clearly, they've decided to address the Spanish-speaking population in central Indiana....

But was this ever announced (i.e. press release)? I never spotted any on-air announcement that this was going to happen. You'd think if they were saturating the air with 'get ready for the digital conversion' spots, that a change of this nature would also merit some pre-announcements.

I'm unaware there were any.

The V-Me channel has been on Bloomington PBS 30-4 (14-4) for over a month.

I just received the following 'explanation' from WFYI. It doesn't answer the question I posed to them about whether this change was announced anywhere. I guess it wasn't.

====

Dear Mr. Heller:

Brad Boyd forwarded your question about our new Spanish language public TV channel, V-Me. Here is some information about how we came to select it:

● After exploring several programming options, WFYI Public Television has determined that it can best serve the public’s interest by dedicating one of its three digital television services to meeting the needs of one of Central Indiana’s fastest-growing demographics — the Latino community.

● V-me is the brain-child of PBS member station WNET in New York and, therefore, retains public television’s core principles in its program choices and commitment to lifelong learning.

● V-me will provide Central Indiana’s Latino Community with an Invaluable Communications Link.

● V-me offers a healthy, positive environment where preschoolers can learn and have fun in Spanish. Its children’s lineup includes such staples as Plazo Sesamo, Jim de la Luna and LazyTown, which entertain young children while teaching literacy, pre-math and science, music and movement, and social development.

● The service also features a diverse lifestyle lineup that covers food, home, travel, parenting and wellness. V-me’s primetime fare is comprised of quality news and entertainment programs.


Sincerely
Robin Toulouse
Member and Audience Services

The V-Me channel has been on Bloomington PBS 30-4 (14-4) for over a month.

So it only occupies one of *four* channels on WTIU?

The V-Me channel has been on Bloomington PBS 30-4 (14-4) for over a month.V-Me is also available on DISH (channel 9414) - unrelated to the local station carriage.

V-Me is also available on DISH (channel 9414) - unrelated to the local station carriage.

Interesting to learn. I'm sure someone will tell me I should be happy to be getting an cable channel for free over OTA.

But I suppose this development reflects the tighter finances for public broadcasting across the board. There are some really good shows and programs, but not enough money coming in to keep them on the air.

This financial-cum-economic contraction really sucks - in every way.

I'm getting a crystal-clear OTA signal for the race today. I wonder if its something with your USB stick tuner.

I suppose it could be, but I'm still baffled why it's just that one series, on that one channel? I'm watching 24 right this minute, and it comes in fine, as does the NCAA final on CBS.

Some local interference - specific to race time? Maybe the USB stick can't reject it/isn't sufficiently shielded.

It would be rather difficult to nail down, particularly since the show on WXIN just before race time (Raceline) is SD-only. However, it's an instantaneous loss of video PRECISELY when the NASCAR broadcast begins.

Transition effect? What happens when you reboot?

This may be slightly off-topic and if so, I apologize. I have been a lurker here for MANY years now, but have not posted for 2 years.

My question is this - Does anyone know the best way to mount a dish to an OTA tower leg? I am building a new house and have a brand new 36' TACO tower up and running for OTA, Now I would like to transfer my dish account to the new place and would like to put the dish on the tower leg similar to what I had at my old place. Old place tower had round legs, so not too difficult, but new tower has the "bent metal" style legs. Do I need to fabricate a panel that would span 2 legs and mount dish to that? Is there a bracket available that I cannot seem to find? help?

They seem to have done so. My Dish receiver is pegging at 100%. Before, around 85%.

Do I need to fabricate a panel that would span 2 legs and mount dish to that?
My gut feeling is that that would be your best solution. Those formed-steel legs should not be deformed by anything you add to the tower. If they are deformed, that might weaken the legs and you really don't want that.

What do the braces between the legs look like? Are they formed-steel strips, too?

My gut feeling is that that would be your best solution. Those formed-steel legs should not be deformed by anything you add to the tower. If they are deformed, that might weaken the legs and you really don't want that.

What do the braces between the legs look like? Are they formed-steel strips, too?


Braces are formed-steel also, in a criss-cross pattern. If all else fails, I will just fabricate something out of treated lumber so I do not have to worry about rust or metal to metal contact, and make it so that it sets "around" the tower legs without actually putting pressure on them anywhere.

Thanks for the input!

Braces are formed-steel also, in a criss-cross pattern. If all else fails, I will just fabricate something out of treated lumber so I do not have to worry about rust or metal to metal contact, and make it so that it sets "around" the tower legs without actually putting pressure on them anywhere.

Thanks for the input!

I had a TACO tower a number of years ago and a friend has had a 48 ft. one up in the air for almost 34 years. http://www.tvantenna.com/products/tvreception/mounting/towers/taco/dmx/dmxfeatures.html

Stallions Satellite and Antenna, Martinsville, sells TACO towers and the guys who operate the business are knowledgeable and friendly. You might contact them and see if they have a recommendation for you.
http://www.tvantenna.com/

I would enjoy finding out what antenna(s), preamp, rotor, etc. you are using in Rossville and what kind of reception/stations you are receiving on a consistant basis. For example, do you receive or have you attempted to receive WICD-DT 41, Champaign and/or WIPB-DT 52, Muncie? It doesn't have much power now (3.3 kW), but after June 12, WTTK-DT 54, Kokomo (transmitter & tower in Windfall) should be raising its power to 50 kW until later in the year when it really cranks up the power and begins transmitting from the WXIN tower in NW Indy.

Thanks.

Steve

They seem to have done so. My Dish receiver is pegging at 100%. Before, around 85%.

WTHR-DT has been licensed at 1000 kW for several years so I would tend to think something else was responsible for your signal increase this morning, such as a change in propagation via tropospheric scatter or enhancement. I was out of town this morning, but yesterday morning TV signals from Terre Haute were quite elevated into Indy.

WTHR-DT is waiting on final approval for a power increase post-transition from 15.1 kW to 22 kW when it switches from channel 46 to channel 13.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=70162

Steve

Stallions Satellite and Antenna, Martinsville, sells TACO towers and the guys who operate the business are knowledgeable and friendly. You might contact them and see if they have a recommendation for you.
http://www.tvantenna.com/

I would enjoy finding out what antenna(s), preamp, rotor, etc. you are using in Rossville and what kind of reception/stations you are receiving on a consistant basis.
Thanks.

Steve

I contacted Stallions and the only thing they have ever done was to have a welding shop fabricate a plate that spanned two tower legs. I guess that I am still surprised there is not a product for this. Maybe I smell a patent here...

On the topic of reception - No rotor, but I have a Winegard HD7698P antenna with an AP-8700 pre-amp running RG-11 downleads approximately 125' to my mechanicals room in the basement then RG-6 to individual rooms. So far I have only connected one tv (house is still under construction), and I am thinking that I need to re-point the antenna slighty more southerly, but I have consistent reception of 6, 8, 13, 18, 20, 23, 29 (analog only), 40, 51, 59, and 63 maybe? (not sure of the channel assignment on that one) WTTV-DT on occasion, but WTTK-DT never. Never looked for 41 or 52 I guess. I am 1.5 miles due West of WLFI's tower, so I am ANXIOUSLY awaiting the demise of thier analog signal that should help my pre-amp from "swamping" due to UHF overload. I'll still have the overload problem on VHF, but don't care for now. My current house is only a mile from the new location with a similar setup and similar results.

it's a shame we viewers here in n.e.indiana have lost wttk -dt.the move to indy will spell the end, i receive wndy on a regular basis,a good vhf antenna is in the plans here.i should pull wlfi -dt ch 11 hopefully

They seem to have done so. My Dish receiver is pegging at 100%. Before, around 85%.

Is yours still high? Mine is 77-82 tonight, same as usual.

This may be slightly off-topic and if so, I apologize. I have been a lurker here for MANY years now, but have not posted for 2 years.

My question is this - Does anyone know the best way to mount a dish to an OTA tower leg? I am building a new house and have a brand new 36' TACO tower up and running for OTA, Now I would like to transfer my dish account to the new place and would like to put the dish on the tower leg similar to what I had at my old place. Old place tower had round legs, so not too difficult, but new tower has the "bent metal" style legs. Do I need to fabricate a panel that would span 2 legs and mount dish to that? Is there a bracket available that I cannot seem to find? help?


I just used a short piece of 1.25" galvanized pipe on the back side of the formed steel leg with 2 "U" clamps around the tower leg and pipe through the dish mounting foot holes. I placed the dish mount between one of the "X" brace joints on the tower for some added strength to minimize any flex in high winds. This setup has worked well for over 5 years in very high winds.

Is yours still high? Mine is 77-82 tonight, same as usual.
Yep! 100.

It appears that this station's defective antenna has been replaced and that the station has increased its power. I doubt that it's up to 850 kW at this time, but it is occasionally decoding here on the north side of Indy @ 83 miles.

Steve

APB:

For anyone with the equipment & talent to do so, I need to obtain the current promo for WRTV's "Good Morning Indiana". Could someone do this and PM me? (If this is illegal, please let me know.)

I don't know when they run this promo, but I spotted it Saturday night. I suppose it's run with some frequency on 6-2.

NefariousAryq are you out there?

It appears that this station's defective antenna has been replaced and that the station has increased its power. I doubt that it's up to 850 kW at this time, but it is occasionally decoding here on the north side of Indy @ 83 miles.

Steve

Finally got my rotor working properly, and I am proud to report that WFXW-DT comes in just as strong as the other two digital Terre Haute Stations.
I have no way to know what their power level is, but I'm totally satisfied.

I know Steve has posted it before but for some reason I can't find it in this thread. Wondering when CW4 is going to boost up that signal?

It's driving me nuts that I can pick up the ION channels from my location Clinton/Terre Haute area no problem 24/7. And actually pick up CLJ more often than WTTV any more. Use to get 4 often and now it really is hard to get their signal and has been for a number of months.

My TiVo'd Chuck from last night (4/13, 8:00 - 9:00 PM) was completely unwatchable. Audio and video dropouts, as if there was signal interference, but sometimes the picture would drop to SD while displaying thick horizontal lines. I've never seen that before, so I was wondering if there may have been more going on than just atmospheric interference. Transmission problems maybe?

Didn't get to check and see how my recording of Heroes (from 9:00 - 10:00) came out, but there weren't problems on my other OTA stations last night that might indicate an antenna problem on my end. Anyone else have trouble with 13.1?

My TiVo'd Chuck from last night (4/13, 8:00 - 9:00 PM) was completely unwatchable. Audio and video dropouts, as if there was signal interference, but sometimes the picture would drop to SD while displaying thick horizontal lines. I've never seen that before, so I was wondering if there may have been more going on than just atmospheric interference. Transmission problems maybe?

Didn't get to check and see how my recording of Heroes (from 9:00 - 10:00) came out, but there weren't problems on my other OTA stations last night that might indicate an antenna problem on my end. Anyone else have trouble with 13.1?

I have had problems with audio dropping or popping at times. It has been going on for a week or so. It happens during primetime show, local new ect is fine.

Brad

I know Steve has posted it before but for some reason I can't find it in this thread. Wondering when CW4 is going to boost up that signal?

That's a good question, but with the DTV transition delay I'm not sure that the folks at WXIN/WTTV/WTTK know now when their antenna/tower projects will be wrapped up. I found out that the WTTK-DT move from Windfall to Indy has to be finished (at the very latest) by around 12/15/09. As for the WTTV-DT project (new top-mounted antenna and power increase from 870 kW to 1000 kW) cannot begin until after WTTV-4 signs off (6/12/09).

Steve

Finally got my rotor working properly, and I am proud to report that WFXW-DT comes in just as strong as the other two digital Terre Haute Stations.
I have no way to know what their power level is, but I'm totally satisfied.

Glad to read that you got your rotor working again and that the Terre Haute DTVs are being received well in Bloomington.

If WFXW-DT's original plan here http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101285655&formid=337&fac_num=65247 which was approved by the FCC back in January, is simply moved from Feb. 17 to June 12, then it would appear that it will not be up to 850 kW until late June/early July. In the meantime, according to this filing, the station should be operating at approx. 425 kW.

Steve

Wow. Doubling the power of WFXW-DT would be great, since it's already good.
Thanks for the update, Steve.
Nat

I had a TACO tower a number of years ago and a friend has had a 48 ft. one up in the air for almost 34 years. http://www.tvantenna.com/products/tvreception/mounting/towers/taco/dmx/dmxfeatures.html

Stallions Satellite and Antenna, Martinsville, sells TACO towers and the guys who operate the business are knowledgeable and friendly. You might contact them and see if they have a recommendation for you.
http://www.tvantenna.com/

I would enjoy finding out what antenna(s), preamp, rotor, etc. you are using in Rossville and what kind of reception/stations you are receiving on a consistant basis. For example, do you receive or have you attempted to receive WICD-DT 41, Champaign and/or WIPB-DT 52, Muncie? It doesn't have much power now (3.3 kW), but after June 12, WTTK-DT 54, Kokomo (transmitter & tower in Windfall) should be raising its power to 50 kW until later in the year when it really cranks up the power and begins transmitting from the WXIN tower in NW Indy.

Thanks.

Steve
What is the reason WTTK-DT is moving to Indy? Is this marketing or FCC regs?After viewing the coverage map for WTTV and WTTK I see alot of duplication.Inquiring minds got to know!

What is the reason WTTK-DT is moving to Indy? Is this marketing or FCC regs?After viewing the coverage map for WTTV and WTTK I see alot of duplication.Inquiring minds got to know!

My own personal take on this move is to consolidate and cut costs. Once again, these are my thoughts and not necessarily those of WTTK or Tribune, its owner.

All businesses are looking for ways to cut expenses, and this is a way to cut out an entire tower site (Windfall). The WXIN tower is taller than the tower at Windfall, and as a result the new WTTK-DT transmit antenna will be @ 984 ft. HAAT (height above average terrain) vs. 774 ft. HAAT from Windfall. The higher the antenna, the better the line-of-sight signal to the receive antenna (DTV viewer). And relating to one of the FCC's main points, the tower height plus the ERP (effective radiated power), which was recently increased to 780 kW from 410 kW, will provide a city grade signal into Kokomo, the station's city of license. Plus, according to the station's application, the WTTK-DT signal from the WXIN tower site will actually reach more households/viewers. It met the FCC criteria and was approved.

Yes, there are overlapping coverage areas with WTTV-DT, but that would have occurred in some areas even if the transmitter/tower had remained in Windfall. The new DTV coverage area more than replicates the analog coverage area, although some areas northeast of Indy will not have the coverage it currently has. But the primary service area is covered well and the total coverage area is larger. And the strongest signal areas will be concentrated in the more populated areas, like Marion and Hamilton Counties.

First proposal for the move:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101236110&formid=301&fac_num=56526

Second, or follow-up proposal for power increase:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101250851&formid=301&fac_num=56526

BTW, the higher ERP (780 kW) does require a directional antenna, but it's strongest signal will be radiating to the northwest, toward the Lafayette area.

My 2 cents.

Steve

Please celebrate with me as, after many years of monopolistic servitude, I bid adieu to the Great Satan--Time Warner. With the availability of HD locals--I finally made the switch to Dish Network. For about $15 a month less--I'm getting everything I had with TW + NLF Network + the Cubs on CSNCH! Plus most importantly I'm getting a consistent, good quality HD signal, something TW has only been able to provide during cold weather months.

Now as long as I can get that ABC waiver (I'm in TH) everything's roses!

Please celebrate with me as, after many years of monopolistic servitude, I bid adieu to the Great Satan--Time Warner. With the availability of HD locals--I finally made the switch to Dish Network. For about $15 a month less--I'm getting everything I had with TW + NLF Network + the Cubs on CSNCH! Plus most importantly I'm getting a consistent, good quality HD signal, something TW has only been able to provide during cold weather months.

Now as long as I can get that ABC waiver (I'm in TH) everything's roses!

Good for you! If you're located within the city limits of Terre Haute, I'll bet you can get all of the networks (in HD) over the air very inexpensively. I get 'em in Bloomington now easy enough. Edit! Whoops, forgot about ABC not being in Terre Haute...Sorry....

I've been a long-time customer of DirecTV, but I put my account in temporary suspension when I moved a few months ago. I currently have Brighthouse cable, which I'm not happy with, and I want to go back to satellite. I've thought about dropping my DirecTV account and signing up with DISH, but DISH doesn't have all of the Indianapolis locals in HD while DirecTV does.

DirecTV has an HD OTA receiver that integrates seamlessly with their HD DVRs (the HR20 has an OTA receiver built-in, but the HR21 and HR22 do not). If I were in a situation where DirecTV did not have all of the locals in HD, but I could get them OTA, I would still be able to DVR programs off the locals in the same way I'd DVR programs off of satellite.

Does DISH have something similar? In other words, can DISH customers in, let's say, Indianapolis, use their DISH DVR to record OTA channels that DISH doesn't have in HD?

Yes, Dish HD DVR receivers have built in OTA tuners. The 622/722 have a single tuner and the newest 722k has a plug in module for $30 extra that has 2 OTA tuners. That gives you the capability to record 2 HD OTA streams and 2 HD satellite streams while watching a recorded HD stream from the HDD AT THE SAME TIME!! Pretty impressive, I must say. I have a 622 & 722 and highly recommend either one. They are also both 2 room receivers as well.

Just to expand and expound a little - I have a Dish 722 as well as an antenna in my attic connected to the receiver, so I can record 3 HD streams at once (two from the satellite and one from the antenna). Even though WTHR isn't on Dish yet, it comes in fine from the antenna and is fully integrated into the guide

I typically set my absolute favorite programs to record from the OTA source, just as extra insurance from weather issues. It's also nice to be able to watch something in the worst weather that knocks out satellite reception.

I'm also eagerly awaiting the Dish 922, which is due out in a few months. If you're not familiar with it, Google it - it's going to be really sweet: 2 OTA + 2 satellite + Sling in one box.

Got to jump on the OTA bandwagon, like Jeff. With Direct TV, you have to put a box on a box, and still be limited two only two recordings at a time. Dish equipment bests Direct's.

Sometime overnight, WCLJ-DT (42.1 - 42.5), Bloomington/Indianapolis switched from RF channel 56 to channel 42, its former analog channel and post-transition channel (DTV). According to the latest filing with the FCC, it is now operating on ch. 42 with 465 kW @ 1040 ft. from its tower in Trafalgar. As of 6/12/09, the station will increase its power to 850 kW.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101299693&formid=911&fac_num=68007

Steve

Is WRTV owned and operated by ABC?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142333

No, it's owned by McGraw-Hill.

- Trip

APB:

For anyone with the equipment & talent to do so, I need to obtain the current promo for WRTV's "Good Morning Indiana". Could someone do this and PM me? (If this is illegal, please let me know.)

I don't know when they run this promo, but I spotted it Saturday night. I suppose it's run with some frequency on 6-2.

NefariousAryq are you out there?

GAH! I'm still out here. I stopped getting the alerts from avsforum.com telling me there were new posts on this thread and then I just kept forgetting to come check. Three weeks later and I finally return. Ha :-p

Sorry for not getting back to you before now! Hope you were able to get recorded what you needed.

In the future if ya ever need anything captured, drop me an e-mail!

Ciao!
--Eric
*promises to pay more attention*

So, we've been playing around with antennas here at our apartment lately, for our OTA signal... and we get some very peculiar results.

My roommate just sold his 42" 1080i plasma for a brand new Sony Bravia XBR 1080p 46" LCD. Its gorgeous, and we're loving it. The Sony correctly accepts the signal from the media pc we have in the living room over HDMI at 1080p (with no overscan/underscan issues), which the old TV did not. It's made watching OTA content out in the living room MUCH nicer, from my MythTV box recordings.

Anyway, so, a while back we had picked up a power amplified antenna from Fry's, hoping it would help us get a better signal for picking up WTTV-4, which my cheapie $10 antenna wasn't picking up. To make a long story short, I found I actually got a *worse* signal from this $40 antenna, than I did with the $10 one. My roommate was supposed to return it to Fry's, but he never got around to it, return period expired, and he ended up keeping it. He had connected it in his bedroom, and was able to get the locals (nbc, cbs, abc, fox), so he was fine with it.

When he got the new Sony, he decided to connect this antenna out in the living room. Did a scan, and with the antenna pointed in the same direction as the antenna here in my bedroom connected to the myth box... well, lets just say, this is where things started getting weird.

Living room doesn't pick up CBS at all (8.1), but it picks up WTTV-4 just fine. I can, obviously, pick up CBS just fine, but my WTTV-4 is still "wonky". Also, I can pick up ION just fine in here, but he doesn't get ION at all in the living room. Very very peculiar. :)

Anyway... Didn't really have a question, I just thought the above was kinda interesting and thought I'd mention it. OTA still can be kinda peculiar, with so many variables... Might have to start sacrificing chickens and doing voo-doo dances to see if my signals improve ;)

Oh, speaking of which, my LOST recording was a bit iff-y Wednesday night. Quite frustrating. Most of the show was watchable, just pixel-y here and there... except for the last 5 minutes or so, that was virtually unwatchable. That made for a cranky Eric, cuz Eric loves his LOST. :)

Anyway... Ciao!
--Eric
I'm baaaaack ;)

Is WLFI-DT at full power?

I just installed a new Winegard HD7698 with a rotor after having a 25 year old Winegard antenna and a locked up rotor. Before my original rotor locked, I was able to receive the digital WLFI signal from my location in Alvin, IL. About 11 miles north of Danville.

After installation of my new antenna/rotor, I was only able to receive a blink of a signal, enough to allow my receiver to get data for 18.1 and 18.2, but not enough signal to lock in. My antenna is roof mounted on a tri-pod, around 30 feet or so. I'm also using a Winegard pre-amp and power supply unit.

According to www.tvfool.com, I should be receiving WLFI-DT as the signal strength is listed as being higher than that I get from WAND-Decatur, WBUI-Decatur and WILL-Champaign. I get great signals from all three of them, but hardly anything from WLFI-DT.

I have two Samsung stand alone digital receivers into HD monitor/TV's, also a small Insignia LCD set, along with 4 converter boxes on other CRT type TV's. It's the same on all of the other sets as well.

In the past I had been able to receive CBS high-def from WLFI, before WCIA-Champaign was broadcasting a full power digital signal in high def, but now that's not the case.

I've written e-mails to the CE and GM at WLFI, but afte a week, I've received no answer. Someone needs to remind them that they are license holders of a station which is only there to serve the public....and at last look, I'm a member of the "the public.":mad:

Unless the station is experiencing a temporary equipment issue, WLFI-DT 11 (18.1, 18.2) has been at full power (30 kW @ 702' ) for several years. In fact, it was one of the early small market stations to install full power transmitter equipment and HD equipment to pass network HD.

My suggestion would be to wait another 40+ days and see what your reception is like beginning June 13, after the transition on June 12. Signal propagation in the area over the past few weeks has been quite poor. A friend of mine in Kokomo normally receives the Fort Wayne DTVs @ 66 miles, but the signals have been very poor the past few weeks. I live 40 miles SSE of the WLFI tower in Rossville and I'm currently receiving it but there are some occasional quick dropouts. Sometimes WLFI-DT's signal is weak at my location on the north side of Indy near Carmel, while sometimes it gets slammed by co-channel interference from WHAS-11, Louisville. Sometimes I can receive a stronger signal from WLFI-DT (and other DTV stations) by actually misaiming the antenna in an effort to null the signal from the interferring station.

WLFI-DT's 30 kW ERP is very good for a DTV station on a high-band VHF channel, but its antenna @ 702' (HAAT) is a little low compared to many stations, especially compared to most of those in the Champaign/Decatur area. WAND-DT's transmit antenna is mounted @ over 1200' and WBUI-DT's antenna is mounted @ over 1300' which provides better line-of-sight signal to your receive antenna.

Is your Winegard pre-amp the same one you were using before you changed the antenna or is it a new/different unit? Just trying to see what might be different besides the antenna.

That's about all I know to say without actually seeing your setup. Hopefully you'll figure out why your signal has dropped.

Steve

Is WLFI-DT at full power?

I just installed a new Winegard HD7698 with a rotor after having a 25 year old Winegard antenna and a locked up rotor. Before my original rotor locked, I was able to receive the digital WLFI signal from my location in Alvin, IL. About 11 miles north of Danville.

After installation of my new antenna/rotor, I was only able to receive a blink of a signal, enough to allow my receiver to get data for 18.1 and 18.2, but not enough signal to lock in. My antenna is roof mounted on a tri-pod, around 30 feet or so. I'm also using a Winegard pre-amp and power supply unit.

According to www.tvfool.com, I should be receiving WLFI-DT as the signal strength is listed as being higher than that I get from WAND-Decatur, WBUI-Decatur and WILL-Champaign. I get great signals from all three of them, but hardly anything from WLFI-DT.

I have two Samsung stand alone digital receivers into HD monitor/TV's, also a small Insignia LCD set, along with 4 converter boxes on other CRT type TV's. It's the same on all of the other sets as well.

In the past I had been able to receive CBS high-def from WLFI, before WCIA-Champaign was broadcasting a full power digital signal in high def, but now that's not the case.

I've written e-mails to the CE and GM at WLFI, but afte a week, I've received no answer. Someone needs to remind them that they are license holders of a station which is only there to serve the public....and at last look, I'm a member of the "the public.":mad:Is Alvin considered within WLFI's coverage area, or is it a distant signal you want? Doesn't WLFI operate DTV on VHF spectrum, whereas those three other stations you listed operate DTV on UHF frequencies? Maybe your rebuilt antenna system has some impairment affecting VHF frequencies. Or could the recent emergence of leaves be blocking WLFI into your new receiving antenna?

The new antenna replaces a similar one, much older....the amp is the same, I don't recall the model, but it was the best offered...the antenna height is the same as well.

I was always able to receive it before, but now as I said, it's just been "a blink." My Samsung receivers see it, but not long enough at a time to have it pull in a constant video signal.

It's trans/antenna is located 52.6 miles from me, while WAND and WBUI are 69.1 miles away. WILL-DT is also on VHF and is 59 miles away on a relative short stick as well and I get a very good signal from the PBS station.

It's been rather disappointing, since I really didn't need a rotor for the Spfld-Decatur-Champaign stations, and bought one just to receive WLFI, for their local newscasts once in while, since we shop/dine there often.

Like I said, I used to get it regularly, now hardly anything at all. By the way, I still get their analog signal(class B-C strength) on the one TV I have still the capability to get analog signals from.

About the only thing I could do, is increase the size of the first section of mast below the rotor. I could take it up another 3-4 feet or so, guy it just below the rotor. Would it be worth the effort?

The new antenna replaces a similar one, much older....the amp is the same, I don't recall the model, but it was the best offered...the antenna height is the same as well.


This kind of sounds similar to folks replacing their old Channel Master 4228s with a newer version. Seems the new models are not using the same materials which led to different results.

Sorry if a bit off topic but if anybody can PM me to point me in the direction for a local resource to pickup my dead 61" 2005 dlp tv I'd be much obliged. I live in Broad Ripple in Indianapolis.

Sorry if a bit off topic but if anybody can PM me to point me in the direction for a local resource to pickup my dead 61" 2005 dlp tv I'd be much obliged. I live in Broad Ripple in Indianapolis.

Are you sure it's not just the lamp that went out? 4 years could be about the lifespan. The lamp is serviceable.

Owner of a 2005 50" DLP...

Are you sure it's not just the lamp that went out? 4 years could be about the lifespan. The lamp is serviceable.

Owner of a 2005 50" DLP...

Yep thanks, replaced the lamp. There are numerous problems....

So, since my signal has been a bit wonky lately, I decided to try to find a better (but still inexpensive) antenna for my setup. My first antenna was a cheap $10 RCA ANT111. My roommate had purchased a GE amplified antenna for about $30, which I actually got worse signal with than the $10 antenna!

Since I had good luck with the RCA, I picked up an RCA ANT1450B. Its pretty cool... its about an 8" square, lays flat, and is only about 1/2" or so tall. Nothing sticks outs of it at all. It comes with an amplifier if I wanted to use it, but to start out I decided to try it without. It was only $30 at Wally World. By RCA's own measure, the ANT111 is standard/good -- while this new one rates excellent/superior. Their own scale goes standard/good/great/excellent/superior/ultimate. I know its mostly marketing, but... ;)

As I've mentioned before, WTTV-4 has been the biggest problem I've had with the old cheap antenna. I tried 4.1 with the old antenna just before swapping to the new one. It was coming in well, as it generally does at night, with the occasional blip here and there. Switched to the new antenna, and no blips at all. Recorded Friends last night on the channel, and all was fine.

I knew the big test was going to be during daytime hours, because thats when 4.1 was always the worst. I've never been able to successfully record People's Court (dont laugh!) on 4.1 with the old antenna... so that was my first real test. I just checked the recording (it finished at 11am), and it was PERFECT. I have a few other test recordings set to go throughout the day on 4.1, just to see if it continues to be good or not.

SO... it seems my 4.1 issues are behind me, with this new antenna. As I mentioned, it was only $30, and I really like the design. It sits atop a black bookshelf here in my room, and you'd almost never notice its there. Definitely doesn't look like an antenna.

Ciao!
--Eric

All subsequent tests of 4.1 with the new antenna have been perfect, not even a single blip at all. I'm thrilled. I just needed a good antenna. Our OTA setup is just about perfect now. I could stand for some extra HDD space in my MythTV box though ;)

Ciao
--Eric

All subsequent tests of 4.1 with the new antenna have been perfect, not even a single blip at all. I'm thrilled. I just needed a good antenna. Our OTA setup is just about perfect now. I could stand for some extra HDD space in my MythTV box though ;)

Ciao
--Eric


Congrats on your enhanced reception, Eric. Where is your location, i.e. azimuth and distance relative to all the towers? (For me, they're all in the same direction.)

I'm curious: when are you going to find the *time* to actually watch all that you're recording? Are you an insomniac? ;-)

That's what puzzles me about PVRs, DVRs, TiVos, etc... There's still only 24 hours in a day and each recorded program on your HDD represents a 'claim' of at least 22 minutes on your future. (Of course, I'm assuming you will be watching all the programs you record, which I doubt anyone ever does.)

Maybe you've got larger ideas, like doing some video editing with all that material - or serve it to others over the web... Or maybe simply have fun testing/increasing your technical mastery?

Congrats on your enhanced reception, Eric. Where is your location, i.e. azimuth and distance relative to all the towers? (For me, they're all in the same direction.)

I'm curious: when are you going to find the *time* to actually watch all that you're recording? Are you an insomniac? ;-)

That's what puzzles me about PVRs, DVRs, TiVos, etc... There's still only 24 hours in a day and each recorded program on your HDD represents a 'claim' of at least 22 minutes on your future. (Of course, I'm assuming you will be watching all the programs you record, which I doubt anyone ever does.)

Maybe you've got larger ideas, like doing some video editing with all that material - or serve it to others over the web... Or maybe simply have fun testing/increasing your technical mastery?

Thanks ;) We're located on the Northwest side of Indy, near Eagle Creek Park... so I do have stations in different directions from me (4.1 being the biggest off-set from the others).

ehehe My MythTV box does record a lot of stuff, but there are two of us here, myself and my roommate, so everything I record isn't for me... some of it is his stuff. We actually thought we would have a lot less to watch once we dropped Comcast and went OTA-only, but that has not actually been the case. We've found plenty of stuff to record... and if there isn't anything on my Myth box, we can always dig up Hulu :-p

It sure does add up, though... When I was recording SD only, my SD hour-long recordings were running about 2gb, so 1gb for half-hour shows. Now, we're looking at 6 to 7gb per hour, depending on the channel. So I do have to watch my HDD space a lot closer these days, until I can afford to upgrade!

Having a DVR does let us watch more stuff in less time, though... I never have to watch commercials anymore, so we can watch a show in either 22 or 44 minutes, depending on its original length (30 or 60 minutes)... So thats 8 or 16 minutes worth of time we can put towards other things (or other shows). I love it. I can't imagine not having my MythTV!

BTW, I have not forgot about the promos that I recorded for you... I am going to be able to get to those this week/weekend, now that classes and finals are all completed and I've rested up :)

Ciao!
--Eric

Glad you found a good indoor antenna and thanks for sharing the information, Eric. I shared your reception info with an engineer at WTTV.

Steve

Glad you found a good indoor antenna and thanks for sharing the information, Eric. I shared your reception info with an engineer at WTTV.

Steve

Thanks Steve. As another update... Even during the storms last night, the new antenna worked great -- only *one* blip in the full 2 hours of LOST. I was really concerned that all the lightning was gonna kill the recording, but we got lucky! Woo hoo ;)

Ciao!
--Eric

WLFI-DT (CBS) is now available in HD via DirecTV in Tippecanoe and Benton Counties. Plus, according to a viewer comment at the WLFI website, WTTV-DT (CW), WTHR-DT (NBC) and WXIN-DT (Fox) are available, too. Supposedly DirecTV is working to obtain an ABC HD feed.

http://www.wlfi.com/dpp/news/local_wlfi_westlafayette_wlfi_comes_to_directv_this_friday_2 0090514

Steve

Can't wait to see what happens in about three weeks. I had moved my antenna from the west side of my house to the east to see if I could get better reception. Once again my location is between Terre Haute and the Clinton area.

The east side made the LOS better for attempting to get Indy channels and this was definately the case as I was picking up WRTV 24/7 by doing this. I was happy because for some reason what use to be an easy pickup from Champaign Illinois (ABC station) I could no longer get on a consistent basis. Could be additional tree limbs in the way, I don't know.

Because of WAF the antenna made it's way back to my original location on the west side of the house which didn't help in my quest for Indy channels. What's strange though is how just a few degrees changes everything I guess. See what doesn't make sense is what I considered the better LOS (east side) I had dificulty picking up WXIN 59 and yet now that the antenna is on the west side it comes in 24/7. The signal strength on the 42-1 channels are weaker, but the strength on 63 (27-1) have increased. Now if I could only get WTTV to beam a little more my direction I'll be making real progress.

You just have to shake your head sometimes.

You just have to shake your head sometimes.

It's voodoo, I tell ya!

Get ready to sacrifice a chicken, stand on one leg, pat your head while rubbing your belly, etc! :)

hehehe

Best of luck...
--Eric

Actually, RWB, your antenna results make perfect sense. OTA signals (radio, TV, cell, etc.) are never perfectly distributed, especially at the distances you are referring to. There will always be hot spots and cold spots. Just watch the signal meter on a cell phone as you move around. I live in a major metro area and I still have some cell phone dead zones in my house. TV signals, especially UHF frequencies, have the same characteristics. Check out this site........
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

As of last week, WTWO-DT's Nexstar sister station, WFFT-DT, Fort Wayne (Fox) flipped the switch on its new full-power antenna/transmitter setup (1000 kW). Both of these DT's happen to be on channel 36. I am located 83 miles from the WTWO tower while I'm 94 miles from the WFFT tower. Depending on tropospheric conditions, I might see one of these stations, or both, or neither one. Mostly due to location (terrain, obstacles, RF interference from the Indy antenna farm to the SW, etc.) I have noticed that WFFT-DT 36 is much easier to receive at my location than WTWO-DT 36, even though WTWO-DT's tower is closer, its antenna is mounted higher and is supposedly at the same power level (1000 kW).

Yes, three short weeks from now will be the end of full-power analog TV, and a number of DTs will be moving to other channels, like WTHR-DT (46 -> 13), WTHI-DT (24 -> 10) and WTTK-DT (54 -> 29). Also, a number of area/regional stations will be increasing power levels at that time. It will be interesting to see how all of this shakes out beginning June 13. Stay tuned. And of course, YMMV.

Steve

On the Terre Haute stations, are WTHI, WTWO, and WFXW currently at full-power?

On the Terre Haute stations, are WTHI, WTWO, and WFXW currently at full-power?

Yes, all three are currently operating at what would be called full-power. But not all are currently operating at maximized post-transition power levels.

WTHI-DT 24 is currently operating with 189 kW ERP @ 863 ft. HAAT. As of 6/13/09, after WTHI-DT switches from ch. 24 to ch. 10 and turns on its new digital transmitter, WTHI-DT 10 will operate with 27 kW ERP @ 961 ft. HAAT, utilizing the current top-mounted analog antenna on their tower.

From all indications, WTWO-DT 36 is currently operating with 1000 kW ERP @ 814 ft. HAAT. The antenna for the DT is side-mounted on the WTWO tower, below the top-mounted analog antenna.

Per FCC filings, WFXW-DT 39 is currently operating with approximately 50% of its post-transition licensed power level of 850 kW ERP @ 814 ft. HAAT. So apparently it is currently kicking out around 425 kW ERP. After WFXW-38 shuts down on June 12, engineers will convert the analog transmitter to digital, supposedly within a few weeks. This rebuilt transmitter will provide more power than the present transmitter and get the station up to 850 kW. Also, this rebuilt transmitter will be moved from the WFXW tower site to the WTWO tower/studio site, as WTWO-DT and WFXW-DT are now sharing the same antenna.

Steve

Please celebrate with me as, after many years of monopolistic servitude, I bid adieu to the Great Satan--Time Warner. With the availability of HD locals--I finally made the switch to Dish Network. For about $15 a month less--I'm getting everything I had with TW + NLF Network + the Cubs on CSNCH! Plus most importantly I'm getting a consistent, good quality HD signal, something TW has only been able to provide during cold weather months.

Now as long as I can get that ABC waiver (I'm in TH) everything's roses!

i'm considering switching as well, what's the deal with abc and the waiver? I'm in terre haute too, the dish network rep i tried to ask had no idea what i was talking about, but her name was Princess so I expected as much

all I want is to be able to dvr grey's anatomy so my wife doesn't have a heart attack if we aren't able to

any help would be appreciated

Any waiver for Dish goes through a different company (All American Direct). They do not offer any HD feeds. You will not qualify in TH because WICD ABC Danville claims a grade B coverage in TH. I would change my service address with Dish to an Indianapolis or Champaign address and you will get a full set of channels. You are under both Spot Beams. Champaign is your best choice, since WTHR/NBC HD is missing from the Indy market because of contract disputes with Dispatch Broadcasting.

Any waiver for Dish goes through a different company (All American Direct). They do not offer any HD feeds. You will not qualify in TH because WICD ABC Danville claims a grade B coverage in TH. I would change my service address with Dish to an Indianapolis or Champaign address and you will get a full set of channels. You are under both Spot Beams. Champaign is your best choice, since WTHR/NBC HD is missing from the Indy market because of contract disputes with Dispatch Broadcasting.


Actually, my parents live in Terre Haute, and they have DISH, and they get the ABC feeds through the waiver through All American Direct. I believe they receive 3 feeds, I think its... Atlanta, something like Denver, and a California feed as well.

Just FYI...
--Eric

I live in Terre Haute and am able to get distant ABC feeds from Directv. I applied for a waiver a few weeks ago and got the channels in a few days. I get one HD feed (NY) and two SD feeds (NY and LA).

Any waiver for Dish goes through a different company (All American Direct). They do not offer any HD feeds. You will not qualify in TH because WICD ABC Danville claims a grade B coverage in TH. I would change my service address with Dish to an Indianapolis or Champaign address and you will get a full set of channels. You are under both Spot Beams. Champaign is your best choice, since WTHR/NBC HD is missing from the Indy market because of contract disputes with Dispatch Broadcasting.

Changing your service address is a piece of cake - if you're under the correct spot beam you'll have that market's locals in just a few minutes. Awhile back, Dish didn't have Indy's locals in HD, so I changed my service address to Atlanta (back when Atlanta was on Dish's CONUS beam and not a spot beam) and that was that.

Technically it's probably against somebody's rules, but in the big scheme of things I don't think this is a very big deal.

Just FYI...
--Eric

Say, Eric --- have you dumped that recording, or is it still hanging around? I've got my DVD ROM installed now, so can play with a larger file (if Windows apps can decode them, that is!)

It appears that WTTK-DT 54 has been off the air all morning. I'm not receiving a hint of signal. Speculating that maybe final preparations are underway for the transition from ch. 54 to ch. 29 in two weeks.

Starting two weeks from today, some viewers on the far north side of Indy should have a better shot at receiving WTTK-DT, as it will be operating with a little more power and from a higher antenna. The station will go from 3.3 kW (non-directional antenna) @ 499 ft. to 50 kW (directional antenna) @ 774 ft. Even with the very directional antenna (the ch. 29 analog antenna) I quickly figured that approximately 8 kW will be aimed toward the Carmel/Fishers area. And the higher antenna should provide better line-of-sight coverage. This setup will be in operation until the new equipment is installed at the WXIN tower site.

I did find out from Rick at WXIN that a tower crew has been scheduled for August to install the new combo antenna and transmission line for WXIN-DT and WTTK-DT on the top of the WXIN tower. The old ch. 59 analog antenna will be removed and the new combo digital antenna will be installed. The antenna will be just shy of 1000 ft.

Steve

It appears that WTTK-DT 54 has been off the air all morning. I'm not receiving a hint of signal. Speculating that maybe final preparations are underway for the transition from ch. 54 to ch. 29 in two weeks.

Starting two weeks from today, some viewers on the far north side of Indy should have a better shot at receiving WTTK-DT, as it will be operating with a little more power and from a higher antenna. The station will go from 3.3 kW (non-directional antenna) @ 499 ft. to 50 kW (directional antenna) @ 774 ft. Even with the very directional antenna (the ch. 29 analog antenna) I quickly figured that approximately 8 kW will be aimed toward the Carmel/Fishers area. And the higher antenna should provide better line-of-sight coverage. This setup will be in operation until the new equipment is installed at the WXIN tower site.

I did find out from Rick at WXIN that a tower crew has been scheduled for August to install the new combo antenna and transmission line for WXIN-DT and WTTK-DT on the top of the WXIN tower. The old ch. 59 analog antenna will be removed and the new combo digital antenna will be installed. The antenna will be just shy of 1000 ft.

Steve
Thanks Steve for the informative update. That's good news to me because WTTV-DT & WTTK-DT are still by far the most elusive "local" channels for me to receive at my location. Looking forward to the upgrade. Keep up the good work.
Alex

I must register a complaint about WTHR Weather coverage: why do you override the Stanley Cup game but not the 2 week old bike race rerun on CH 13-3 or the 4 hour old weather forecast on 13-2?

From now on in prime time, can you shift the NBC programming to a subfeed when you break in? SD is better than nothing.

This complaint also applies to WISH, and WRTV...as to WXIN, just use 4, no one watches the CW

update: now they are overriding all 3 channels, this is just damn ridiculous...I kinda wish VS simulcast the game so I could you know, WATCH IT!

UPDATE 2
THE DUAL BOX IS NO GOOD...YOU HAVE 3 ****ING CHANNELS! USE OINE FOR THE BLOODY GAME SD IS BETTER THAN NONE

update 3
Rain and wind in the spring in the midwest? whats next frogs or locusts? WTHR. You are pissing off lots of people...

Last update: It took only 2 periods, but you finaly got that smug weather prick to stop talking to hockey fans like impatiant 4 year olds and put the game back on, for that I thank you.


This ia a huge problem for all networks, Fox has done this to nascar, Wish, WTHR, and WXIN has done this with NFL, the madness must end!

The storm that hit Tipton passed my house about two miles to the West...I for one was glad to see some constant coverage. I agree, all three is a bit more than needed. I'm glad the analog is still up...I totally lost signal from Digital Ch 13 for about 10 minutes during the storm.

The storm that hit Tipton passed my house about two miles to the West...I for one was glad to see some constant coverage. I agree, all three is a bit more than needed. I'm glad the analog is still up...I totally lost signal from Digital Ch 13 for about 10 minutes during the storm.
I understand that. and can sympothise: but I must say that having the coverage using identical maps and grahpics, identical data, and identical warning information on 4, 6.1, 6.2, 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 13.1, 13.2, 13.3, 23.1 and 59.1 is a little over kill.

The big 3 in Indy have sub channels, If they put the network feed unaltered, not overlaid with warning tickers on the second or third subchannel, the problem would be gone, as I said, I understand the need to overtake the primary hd feed, cable satellite and whatnot, but when you have 3 channels, just bounce the game to one of those feeds for those of us with rabbit ears to supplement cable, or the handfull of digital cable systems that carry all 3. It is maddening, cable channels don't do this thing, but you are in just as much danger weather wise regardless of weather the game is on Versus or NBC.

also, I think everyone lost WTHR-D as tehy had a transmitter issue, at least that is what they said on the news following the 1/3 of the game that we were so graciously allowed to see.

Is it my setup here in Bloomington, or is WISH-TV's digital signal totally screwed up. (May 31, 4:19 PM)
I hear lots of audio drop outs and see lots of pixellation. They seem to occur in a rhythmic fashion (every second or two).
I have two different set top boxes, and they both exhibit the same behavior.
Comcast's version of WISH-TV looks fine, so I'm a tad confused.

Is it my setup here in Bloomington, or is WISH-TV's digital signal totally screwed up. (May 31, 4:19 PM)
I hear lots of audio drop outs and see lots of pixellation. They seem to occur in a rhythmic fashion (every second or two).
I have two different set top boxes, and they both exhibit the same behavior.
Comcast's version of WISH-TV looks fine, so I'm a tad confused.

I think I've answered my own question by turning my antenna towards Terre Haute.
WTHI in Terre Haute has the same exact problem Wow.
Nice job CBS!

I think I've answered my own question by turning my antenna towards Terre Haute.
WTHI in Terre Haute has the same exact problem Wow.
Nice job CBS!

Is it fixed for you, now?
I just flipped on WISH to test it, and my OTA is perfectly fine.

~Aryq~

Is it fixed for you, now?
I just flipped on WISH to test it, and my OTA is perfectly fine.

~Aryq~

It's something on my end. I get the same intermittent pixellation and drop outs on all sorts of channels.
I don't know what the problem is, but it's definitely my setup at fault.
Back to check out the antenna again...:)

I retract this post because the issue resolved itsself while I was posting

All of my problems (see my ramblings above) were caused by my fence charger.
I unplugged it for now, but I will have to figure out where the arc is taking place tomorrow.

Just wondering about the digital cutover, a few questions:

- When are the low power channels going to digital? I am interested in IMC (please go HD IMC, please)

- which stations are going to get a power boost? I could use some more juice from WXIN and WTHR

- any new easter egg channels planned? something more creative than a static weather map or a rerun of the local news? I'm thinking something like ABC News one, the late Tube Network, and such: Props to WTHR for the NBC Sports channel

- are the rumors true that there will be some kind of a subscription OTA option soon so one could, for example, get just Comedy Central or MSNBC via OTA?

- When are the low power channels going to digital? I am interested in IMC (please go HD IMC, please)Many LPs have already gone digital using "digital companion" channels. There is no cutoff for analog LP ... they can keep broadcasting in analog as long as their channels remain available.
- which stations are going to get a power boost? I could use some more juice from WXIN and WTHRWTHR will abandon digital 46 and move to digital 13 on June 12th. WXIN has a construction permit pending that allows them to raise their antenna 15m to 300m above average terrain.

Some stations have permits pending construction ... WTTV jumping from 870 kW to 1MW, WRTV jumping from 898kW to 1MW. WISH also has a permit ready to "build". June 12th is a good target for all of those.

- are the rumors true that there will be some kind of a subscription OTA option soon so one could, for example, get just Comedy Central or MSNBC via OTA?They tried that out west ... it didn't work well. Stations need their DTV signals for HD ... multiple channels of subscription content would cut into the HD and not provide enough channels to have a package worth selling. Equipment and billing would likely make it a useless endeavor.

What's up with WTHR's digital signal? Last time it stormed, it was off the air. Tonight, it was constantly on and off. My signal strength was 91, and when the first big rain drop fell it dropped to zero. Then it yo-yo'd through the storm cutting in and going out.

All the other stations' signals were rock solid.

- When are the low power channels going to digital? I am interested in IMC (please go HD IMC, please)

WIIH-CA 17, WDNI-LP 19 (IMC) and WIPX-LP 51 have CPs for digital stations.

Steve

WIIH-CA 17, WDNI-LP 19 (IMC) and WIPX-LP 51 have CPs for digital stations.

Steve

Well, every village needs an idiot, and I'm it.
What is a "CP"
Nat

Well, every village needs an idiot, and I'm it.
What is a "CP"
Nat

CP = Construction Permit. It's what broadcast licensees need to place (or perhaps even modify) towers. As I understand it, they specify height, ERP, etc... Oh- and frequency, too! They're issued by the FCC.

Think of it like a homebuilder needing a building permit....

Thanks for the update.
I'll bet a Construction Permit to transmit a million watts is harder to get than a building permit here in Bloomington (but probably not much......:))
Nat

What's up with WTHR's digital signal? Last time it stormed, it was off the air. Tonight, it was constantly on and off. My signal strength was 91, and when the first big rain drop fell it dropped to zero. Then it yo-yo'd through the storm cutting in and going out.

All the other stations' signals were rock solid.

Business as usual when a cloud roles in.

I am certainly no expert in this area, but as I understand it (and I find it to be true in Bloomington at least) VHF doesn't perform as well during storm conditions as UHF.

I am certainly no expert in this area, but as I understand it (and I find it to be true in Bloomington at least) VHF doesn't perform as well during storm conditions as UHF.

Nat, this is generally the case. The higher the frequency (channel), the less interference from lightning. Channel 2 being the worst, with the higher UHF channels the best. This is also the case for most man-made electrical interference. This is one reason why very few DTV stations will be using channels 2-6 (low-VHF) starting Saturday.

Steve

Thanks for the update.
I'll bet a Construction Permit to transmit a million watts is harder to get than a building permit here in Bloomington (but probably not much......:))
Nat

These LP (low power) digital stations won't be anywhere near a million watts. Most of the low power digital (LD) stations will have a maximum power of .3 kW (300 watts) for VHF channels and 15 kW (15,000 watts) for UHF channels. These powers will apply to the three local LDs mentioned above.

Here are some additional LP stations in the area with CPs (Construction Permits) for LD stations:

WREP-LP 15, Martinsville (LD on ch. 15 @ .2 kW)
WSOT-LP 57, Marion (LD on ch. 27 @ 7 kW)
W29DG 29, Terre Haute (LD on ch. 29 @ 12 kW)
W43BV 43, Terre Haute (LD on ch. 43 @ 15 kW)
WIIB-LP 35, Farmersburg (LD on ch. 35 @ 15 kW)

In addition, WMUN-LP 26, Muncie has applied to the FCC for an LD.

It will be interesting to see how well the .3 kW VHF stations are received.

Steve

Here are some additional LP stations in the area with CPs (Construction Permits) for LD stations:...
WREP-LP 15, Martinsville (LD on ch. 15 @ .2 kW)...
It will be interesting to see how well the .3 kW VHF stations are received.
Steve

No doubt. And I'm not sure whether "received" means physical reception or critical acclaim.:confused::) Martinsville is in the WF White River valley, but most of Morgan County is in the knobs and upland. They'll need to place their tower very strategically in order to get any sort of signal to the expectant throngs awaiting this rebirth of local television (like Sarkes-Tarzian) (young'uns are allowed to say "Who?").

No doubt. And I'm not sure whether "received" means physical reception or critical acclaim. Martinsville is in the WF White River valley, but most of Morgan County is in the knobs and upland. They'll need to place their tower very strategically in order to get any sort of signal to the expectant throngs awaiting this rebirth of local television (like Sarkes-Tarzian).

"Received" meant physical reception (sorry about the confusion). It could also relate to critical acclaim, as you mentioned. Yes, with very hilly terrain in the Martinsville area, 200 watts on a UHF channel (even for hi-UHF ch. 15) is not much power. However, their current analog power on ch. 15 is only 4.6 kW and sometimes with good tropo conditions I see it quite well here on the far north side of Indy. Time will tell.

BTW, the station is owned and operated by the METROPOLITAN SCHOOL DISTRICT OF MARTINSVILLE.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=55759

Steve

According to a new FCC filing, WFXW-DT 39, Terre Haute, is currently operating at 80% power (ERP= Effective Radiated Power), or 680 kW. The station plans to be up to 100% power (FCC approved and licensed power), or 850 kW, by June 30.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101313229&formid=911&fac_num=65247

Steve

These LP (low power) digital stations won't be anywhere near a million watts. Most of the low power digital (LD) stations will have a maximum power of .3 kW (300 watts) for VHF channels and 15 kW (15,000 watts) for UHF channels. These powers will apply to the three local LDs mentioned above.

Here are some additional LP stations in the area with CPs (Construction Permits) for LD stations:

WREP-LP 15, Martinsville (LD on ch. 15 @ .2 kW)
...........

Steve

Steve, I really enjoy the Martinsville station. I would rather watch the Martinsville Girl's softball sectionals than watch the NBA finals. It strikes me as what local television is supposed to be all about.
I hate it that they're going to broadcast at only 200 watts. I'm no expert (as I've proven time and time again :)), but that doesn't give me much hope of seeing the station ever again. I currently get the analog station (marginally) from my home North of Bloomington, but it appears that will end with the digital changeover.

Nat

If it was 0.2 kW on its own, I'd say you might see it. But with WTIU-DT 14 stepping on it, and WHMB-DT 16 in the short term at least, those signals might make it hard to receive. 16 more so than 14.

- Trip

Four area DTV stations will be moving to different RF channels this Friday/early Saturday morning: WTHR-DT 46 to 13, WTHI-DT 24 to 10, WIPB-DT 52 to 23, and WTTK-DT 54 to 29. Thanks to the Chief Engineers, here are the plans and times for the transitions at three of these stations.

WTHR-DT, thanks to Al Grossniklaus...........

"WTHR will be terminating over the air analog programming at 12:37AM on Friday June 12th. WTHR will then make the transition from DTV channel 46 to DTV channel 13 at 1PM on Friday June 12th."


WTHI-DT, thanks to Jeff Tucker.............

"We will be turning off the analog at 9 AM on Friday 6/12. Since we are returning to channel 10 for our DTV transmission, we will then connect our new DTV transmitter to the channel 10 antenna. This should take about 15 minutes. We will cease DTV transmission on channel 24 at the same time we turn on the channel 10 DTV transmitter."


WIPB-DT, thanks to Bob Fairchild............

"We will stay on DT-52 and start work on the transmitter at Midnight Friday (6-12-09)… We will be back as soon as it works on Saturday… Hopefully by 2A…"


As for rescanning for these stations after the transition, a quick reminder that some receivers require the old channel number to be deleted before the new scan will add the new channel number.

Steve

Thanks, Steve, for all the latest information!
Nat

Great information to have, thanks much Steve!

~Aryq~

Four area DTV stations will be moving to different RF channels this Friday/early Saturday morning: WTHR-DT 46 to 13, WTHI-DT 24 to 10, WIPB-DT 52 to 23, and WTTK-DT 54 to 29.

WTHR-DT, thanks to Al Grossniklaus...........

"WTHR will be terminating over the air analog programming at 12:37AM on Friday June 12th. WTHR will then make the transition from DTV channel 46 to DTV channel 13 at 1PM on Friday June 12th."


WTHI-DT, thanks to Jeff Tucker.............

"We will be turning off the analog at 9 AM on Friday 6/12. Since we are returning to channel 10 for our DTV transmission, we will then connect our new DTV transmitter to the channel 10 antenna. This should take about 15 minutes. We will cease DTV transmission on channel 24 at the same time we turn on the channel 10 DTV transmitter."


WIPB-DT, thanks to Bob Fairchild............

"We will stay on DT-52 and start work on the transmitter at Midnight Friday (6-12-09)… We will be back as soon as it works on Saturday… Hopefully by 2A…"


WTTK-DT.....Here's an update from Rick Poling (Thanks!!)............

"WTTK – The advertised time is now between noon and 6PM. I will be turning the digital (54) off around 9AM and whenever it gets converted to 29 and is working, we’ll throw the big waveguide switch. I suspect it will be closer to noon than 6PM."

Rick also passed along that WXIN-59 (analog) will shut down the transmitter at midnight Friday night (at the end of 6/12 and going into 6/13).

Meanwhile, WTTV-4 will remain on the air as a "Nightlight" service, with the loop showing the last eight viewers in the area how to hook up a digital converter box..... :-) He didn't mention how long the station would be on the air with this service, but it's usually for 30 days.

Steve

I just received this update from Al Grossniklaus at WTHR.......

.......................................................


Due to a lot of publicity about “rescanning 13 on the 13th” WTHR has modified plans and is now making the switch from DTV RF channel 46 to DTV RF channel 13 at midnight Friday to Saturday June 12/13.


So here’s the WTHR plan as it stands at 4PM on Tuesday 6/9:


WTHR will be terminating over the air analog programming at 12:37AM on Friday June 12th. WTHR will then make the transition from DTV channel 46 to DTV channel 13 at midnight overnight Friday June 12th to Saturday June 13th.



I’ll let you know if there are any further changes.



Al Grossniklaus

Director of Engineering and Operations

WTHR NBC

Indianapolis

Dispatch Broadcast Group

Nat, this is generally the case. The higher the frequency (channel), the less interference from lightning. Channel 2 being the worst, with the higher UHF channels the best. This is also the case for most man-made electrical interference. This is one reason why very few DTV stations will be using channels 2-6 (low-VHF) starting Saturday.

Steve

OK - so dumb question here: Isn't channel 13 actually 46, which would be a UHF channel? So it should be really good in storms, not unwatchable (as it was).

OK - so dumb question here: Isn't channel 13 actually 46, which would be a UHF channel? So it should be really good in storms, not unwatchable (as it was).

It is on 46 until Friday. Then it's 13.

- Trip

OK - so dumb question here: Isn't channel 13 actually 46, which would be a UHF channel? So it should be really good in storms, not unwatchable (as it was).

Indy Jeff, I know that during one of the recent storms WTHR-DT 46 experienced some technical issues. If you've experienced other reception issues during local storms, I'm not sure what caused them. I know that I've observed the local DTVs via OTA during storms in Kokomo (37-39 miles from most towers) and the UHF stations (like WRTV-DT, WXIN-DT and WTHR-DT) were rock solid with their signals, while WISH-DT 9 (VHF) would occasionally experience a very quick dropout when there were close lightning strikes.

WTHR-DT becomes a new game beginning Friday at 1 p.m. when it goes from ch. 46 to ch. 13.......YES, 1 p.m. !! See next post.......

Steve

The flop has flipped again here at WTHR and we’ve reversed ourselves and have put the switch from DTV RF channel 46 to DTV RF channel 13 back to 1:00 PM on Friday.

So here’s the WTHR plan as it stands at Noon on Wednesday 6/10:

WTHR will be terminating over the air analog programming at 12:37AM on Friday June 12th. WTHR will then make the transition from OTA DTV channel 46 to OTA DTV channel 13 at 1:00 PM on Friday June 12th.



Al Grossniklaus

Director of Engineering and Operations

WTHR NBC

Indianapolis


(Thanks for the update, Al.............Steve)

Rick Poling has updated a couple of times at the local Tribune stations. WXIN-59 will now shut down at 9 a.m. Friday, and not midnight Friday night. Also, WTTV-4 will begin its "Nightlight" service at 9 a.m. Friday. WTTV-4 will remain on the air with this service for another two weeks, and then shut down permanently. All previous posted times for WTTK-29/WTTK-DT remain the same.

Steve

Currently they are using 46.1 for main program, Most stations are using .3 for there main program, I believe someone told me FCC rules were .3 for main program content so I wonder if they might make the switch 13.3 Friday when they change over from 46 does anyone know ?

Currently they are using 46.1 for main program, Most stations are using .3 for there main program, I believe someone told me FCC rules were .3 for main program content so I wonder if they might make the switch 13.3 Friday when they change over from 46 does anyone know ?

It's not the Program Number (.3 versus .1) that is in the rules, it's the PID of the parts that make it up.

A video feed can be located at 0x0031, 0x0041, but the FCC frowns upon 0x0021 or 0x0011. Similar for audio, 0x0034 is fine, 0x0024 is not.

WTHR-DT 13-1 is 46.1, but its PIDs are 0x0031 and 0x0041. They're doing it right.

- Trip

Thanks for the info,
I guess I need to study up on that... So I guess they will continue to use to correct PID but it will be 13.1
When a station changes as a few have in the past couple of years typically from .1 to .3 it make a lot of work for me, we have to create new channel maps and send out to STB's big headache just trying to prepare for the worst Friday.

It's not the Program Number (.3 versus .1) that is in the rules, it's the PID of the parts that make it up.

A video feed can be located at 0x0031, 0x0041, but the FCC frowns upon 0x0021 or 0x0011. Similar for audio, 0x0034 is fine, 0x0024 is not.

WTHR-DT 13-1 is 46.1, but its PIDs are 0x0031 and 0x0041. They're doing it right.

- Trip

I think it varies with the encoder. I think some encoders bind the PIDs to the Program Number, thus why you have WRTV-DT 25.3, but others don't have those locked together, so you get what you see for WTHR-DT 46.1.

- Trip

Thanks again, I was just afraid they might choose to change to 13.3 Friday a lot more headaches if they do.
Trip I see on your website rabbitears.info that WISE NBC Ft Wayne In is changing from 19 to 18 do you know when they plan to do that change ?

Thanks again, I was just afraid they might choose to change to 13.3 Friday a lot more headaches if they do.
Trip I see on your website rabbitears.info that WISE NBC Ft Wayne In is changing from 19 to 18 do you know when they plan to do that change ?

The engineer in the Fort Wayne thread is hoping to make it happen in the next 60 days, but it depends on the availability of a tower crew and there could be unforseen delays.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16609755#post16609755

(The solution to the "power issue" referenced is the channel change.)

- Trip

I'm moving to a new residence in West Lafayette and want to get locals in HD. From what I read, I should be able to get the big four plus PBS and CW in HD with Comcast's Limited Basic Cable, but all the info I have read is over a year old. Just wanted to make sure this is still the case.

Also, I want to have DVR capabilities, and was wondering if it would be cheaper to use my old TiVo Series3 (need to reactivate it) or the Comcast DVR.

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that in my current apartment (which provides cable for free, but not HD), I have tried OTA and can only pull in WLFI consistently and WRTV regularly. WTHR and WXIN are rarely available, and not sure if that will change much after tomorrow, and my new apt is further north, so OTA isn't a very viable option.

An employee at WRTV-6 just passed along an update relating to the station's shut down plans. WRTV-6 will shut down at 8 a.m. Friday with this video, which includes some short film clips from the past 60 years the station has been on the air. WRTV-6 (formerly WFBM-6) was Indiana's first TV station (1949).

http://www.theindychannel.com/video/19726948/index.html

Steve

An employee at WRTV-6 just passed along an update relating to the station's shut down plans. WRTV-6 will shut down at 8 a.m. Friday with this video, which includes some short film clips from the past 60 years the station has been on the air. WRTV-6 (formerly WFBM-6) was Indiana's first TV station (1949).

http://www.theindychannel.com/video/19726948/index.html

Steve

Pretty cool. I assume that you'd need to be watching on analog 6 to see this, right?

Reading back through this thread, I think this is the schedule for the local network affiliates:

WTTV 4 -- 9:00 am Friday (nightlight will continue)
WRTV 6 -- 8:00 am Friday
WISH 8 -- unknown
WTHR 13 -- 12:37 am Friday
WFYI 20 -- unknown
WXIN 59 -- 9:00 am Friday

Does anybody know when WISH and WFYI plan to shut down their analog transmitters?

WTHR 13 went off the air at approximately 12:37am this morning. They ran a brief clip with vintage shots of the transmitter building, tower, previous station building on North Meridian Street, and vintage newspaper ads. The voice over talked about Channel 13's history in Indianapolis. Then, poof, snow.

WDNI-LP 19, Indy (IMC) has flash-cut to become WDNI-LD 19. As a digital station, it is operating at 15 kW ERP with a directional antenna on an FM tower east of downtown Indy.

BTW, I just noticed that WTHR-DT 13 is now testing their equipment, as I'm receiving the digital signal on ch. 13, but as of this minute, there's no PSIP info.

Next Indy analog station to shut down (that I'm aware of) will be WRTV-6 at 8 a.m.

Steve

Is WDNI-LD mapping to 19-1 or 65-1?

- Trip

Is WDNI-LD mapping to 19-1 or 65-1?

- Trip

Trip, it's mapping to 19-1. No reference to 65 since December when the analog switched to channel 19.

Steve

Trip, it's mapping to 19-1. No reference to 65 since December when the analog switched to channel 19.

Steve

Thanks. :) 480i, I imagine?

- Trip

On two different branded TV's, we are getting 2 13.1's, 13.2, etc. Anyone else getting this, or is it just us??:)

On two different branded TV's, we are getting 2 13.1's, 13.2, etc. Anyone else getting this, or is it just us??:)


That could be the case. Up until about 20-30 minutes ago, WTHR-DT was on the air with both DT-13 and DT-46. I'm sure they were testing their equipment for DT on ch. 13. The final transition to DT 13 should be at 1 p.m. At that time, the ch. 46 transmitter will be turned off.

Steve

Please feel free to report your OTA reception reports here at AVS Forum or send them to the respective station. I know that Al Grossniklaus at WTHR-DT is interested in receiving reports as soon as their transition is completed this afternoon. Please include as much info as possible relating to receiver, antenna, preamp (if used), and LOCATION so we know how far the signal is traveling. Thanks.

59 just went off. No fanfare, just commerical and then snow.

4 is running DTV checklist loop
6 is still on
8 is running DTV loop
13 off air (digitally, they have shut off 46. One of the 13.1 is dark, the other is program. Thanks Steve.)

20 is still on-air

Location is 2 miles north of Plainfield on SR 267.

59 just went off. No fanfare, just commerical and then snow.

4 is running DTV checklist loop
6 is still on
8 is running DTV loop
13 off air (digitally, they have shut off 46. One of the 13.1 is dark, the other is program. Thanks Steve.)

20 is still on-air

Location is 2 miles north of Plainfield on SR 267.

WRTV-6 analog shut down at approximately 8:06 a.m. Your receiver must be receiving WRTV-DT via ch. 25. Their analog signal is off permanently.

And at the moment, the only OTA signal from WTHR is WTHR-DT on channel 46. It will be on the air until 1 p.m., then it will be turned off when the digital signal is turned on via channel 13.

I hope this is clear. Thanks.

Steve

As of right now, 9:56am on the NW side of Indy, I am still receiving the following analog channels:

08 - DTV Transition Loop
17 - Forecast8Weather
20 - PBS
23 - DTV Transition Loop
47 - Music Videos?
50 - Skytrack13
51 & 63 - Same Programming, Not sure what station it is though.

Curiously, I am not receiving the "nightlight" on analog 4... my scan did not find that channel. heh.

Sure are a lot of TV preachers on at this time of the morning (on the digital stations, that is)... ;)

--Eric

As of right now, 9:56am on the NW side of Indy, I am still receiving the following analog channels:

08 - DTV Transition Loop
17 - Forecast8Weather
20 - PBS
23 - DTV Transition Loop
47 - Music Videos?
50 - Skytrack13
51 & 63 - Same Programming, Not sure what station it is though.

Curiously, I am not receiving the "nightlight" on analog 4... my scan did not find that channel. heh.

Sure are a lot of TV preachers on at this time of the morning (on the digital stations, that is)... ;)

--Eric


Eric, that's pretty much what I'm seeing too. 51 and 63 are WIPX, Bloomington/Indy (ION). Their DTV is on ch. 27 and shows up as 63.1 -63.4.
If you are still watching analog TV with a good antenna, aimed south/southeast, you might also see what I'm currently seeing.....WPBT-2, Miami, FL (PBS) and WESH-2 (NBC, now in "nightlight" mode), Daytona/Orlando. A test pattern from WSAV-3, Savannah, GA. Another ch. 4 really messing up WTTV-4 (still on the air in "nightlight" mode....guy instructing how to hook up a converter box). Channel 5 is a soap opera-type show in Spanish. And occasionally, I've seen another station on channel 6 from FL, most likely. Maybe WKMG-6, Orlando.

Eric, are you receiving the new WDNI-LD 19? The video music channel now on ch. 19?

Steve

51 & 63 - Same Programming, Not sure what station it is though.

ION. WIPX.

- Trip

Sure are a lot of TV preachers on at this time of the morning

You do know they never sleep, don't you? And they tend to gravitate to (largely unwatched) frequencies. They like to think it's their evangelistic mission to convert the heathen ("if you broadcast, they will be saved").

Now, back to our regular programming.....

Eric, that's pretty much what I'm seeing too. 51 and 63 are WIPX, Bloomington/Indy (ION). Their DTV is on ch. 27 and shows up as 63.1 -63.4.
(snip)
Eric, are you receiving the new WDNI-LD 19? The video music channel now on ch. 19?

Steve:

Ahh yes, ION, I forgot about ION. Duh. Thanks ;)

I was not seeing the new 19, so I did a quick re-scan, and analog 4 showed up this time (although barely, I cant really make out whats on it). Digital 4.1 continues to shows up just fine still with this new antenna, thankfully.

However, I am still not seeing the new digital 19 music channel at all. Too bad:(

--Eric

You do know they never sleep, don't you? And they tend to gravitate to (largely unwatched) frequencies. They like to think it's their evangelistic mission to convert the heathen ("if you broadcast, they will be saved").

Now, back to our regular programming.....

Yeah, digital 42.x and 69.x are both "hidden" in my Myth setup ;) heh.

~Aryq~

I'm watching the WISH news, and they said when they shut off their analog signal their phone lines lit up. Apparently that's why there is a "info page" on their analog station now, which will stay up until midnight.

Just FYI...
--Eric

13.1 (on the old frequency) just went off...

Re-scanning now...

13.1 (on the new frequency) is back!


--Eric

13.1 (on the old frequency) just went off...

Re-scanning now...

13.1 (on the new frequency) is back!


--Eric

I was looking for WSYX-DT 13, Columbus, OH when WTHR-DT 13 fired up! It's one channel 13 now.

Those of you receiving the station OTA and live more than 3 miles from their tower (like I do) please post your reception conditions compared to how the reception was when WTHR-DT was on ch. 46.

Steve

At 1:09 p.m., with my lowband VHF antenna aimed west (about 280 degrees) my receiver fully decoded KNOP-DT 2, North Platte, NE @ 770 miles. It's an NBC station and was airing "Days Of Our Lives." Intense Sporadic-E (E-skip) in this area today on the low VHF channels (2-6). Most stations are from the south and west.

Steve

Well so much for the transition for us folks who got a specificed UHF antenna. :( I am 9 miles north or Terre Haute, 3 miles south of Clinton.

No matter which direction I point my CM4228 I no longer get WTHI 10-1 (was 24-1). However 48-1 (channel 4) is coming in great, 30-1 PBS stations out of Bloomington, 42-1 and sub Christian channels as well. Absolute booming strengths with WTWO and WFXW at this time. This is using a Samsung television I purchased last novemember.

Shoot even my 3rd generation LG tuner is picking up channel 4 but of course not WTHI. :mad:

Hoping upon hope I didn't have to buy a yaggi and I don't think the WAF is going to have much sympathy since we can get WTHI thru cable, but it's not hi-def.

Oh and to make sure everyone knows I did rescan everything.

Bought the wife a cheap Emerson LCD for her office in the past month so she could see the soaps while on the net. It's hooked up to a cheap $30 dollar amplified indoor RCA antenna. The tv is getting 10-1 but with some minor pixelation every minute or so.

This is using a Samsung television I purchased last novemember.


Guess I didn't realize how ticked I am...:D

WTTK-DT is now up and on the air on RF channel 29, not 54. With more tower height and power from the Windfall tower, I'm receiving a stronger signal from this station and I'm 29 miles from the tower site.

Hopefully WTTK-DT 29 will be transmitting from the WXIN tower in Indy by late Aug. or Sept. We'll see when the tower crew gets the antenna and transmission line installed.

Steve

I've never been able to get WTTK on my Sony DVR (converter box can). Hopefully this new power will be enough to pull it in. Kids are going to miss their cartoons otherwise.

John

Well so much for the transition for us folks who got a specificed UHF antenna. :( I am 9 miles north or Terre Haute, 3 miles south of Clinton.

No matter which direction I point my CM4228 I no longer get WTHI 10-1 (was 24-1). .........

Sorry about your results, but your experience of using the CM 4228 for a high VHF channel mirrors my results, too. I've tried receiving WISH-DT 9 in Kokomo @ 38 miles with a CM 4228 and the results were terrible. Only in a couple spots could I get the station to decode, and that was just barely a decode. You are going to need some kind of VHF antenna with elements long enough to capture the longer wavelength of the WTHI-DT 10 signal. So far, I haven't even seen a hint of their signal using my highband VHF antenna on a tower, plus a preamp @ 83 miles.

Steve

No WTTK-DT for me, just re-scanned again. Not a big deal, since I get WTTV 4.1 now.

Still 9 analog stations in my scan.

--Eric

Anyone in Lafayette have updated reception info for the indy channels? I had a relative getting 6 13 and 59 analog with a little snow using powered set top rabbit ears - what are the odds that I will get anything when I go hook up the digital converter for him tomorrow?

**Anyone in Lafayette have updated reception info for the indy channels? I had a relative getting 6 13 and 59 analog with a little snow using powered set top rabbit ears - what are the odds that I will get anything when I go hook up the digital converter for him tomorrow? **



OUCH! I have not been home since the analogs have dropped off today (which I hope will help my UHF reception), but I am close to the WLFI tower - have a 32' tower with a large antenna and pre-amp, and have never had what I consider "rock solid" signals from Indy either analog or digital. I suspect that you will be in trouble if you had snowy analogs already. Good Luck!

I was looking for WSYX-DT 13, Columbus, OH when WTHR-DT 13 fired up! It's one channel 13 now.

Those of you receiving the station OTA and live more than 3 miles from their tower (like I do) please post your reception conditions compared to how the reception was when WTHR-DT was on ch. 46.

Steve


Here's my report (4:00 PM) -- after a re-scan, I get NOTHING on 13. It was a near-perfect signal previously. I'd like to watch the Stanley Cup final game tonight; I now may miss it.

All the other stations (WTTV, WRTV, WISH, WFYI, WNDY, WXIN and ION) are fine for now.

I'm in Columbus, about 51 miles due south from the tower. I've got a CM 4228 paired with a Winegard 1713 running through a CM 777 pre-amp and about 115' of Cat 6 coax.

Here's my report (4:00 PM) -- after a re-scan, I get NOTHING on 13. It was a near-perfect signal previously. I'd like to watch the Stanley Cup final game tonight; I now may miss it.

All the other stations (WTTV, WRTV, WISH, WFYI, WNDY, WXIN and ION) are fine for now.

I'm in Columbus, about 51 miles due south from the tower. I've got a CM 4228 paired with a Winegard 1713 running through a CM 777 pre-amp and about 115' of Cat 6 coax.

13 still off the air in Plainfield. All others are pegging the meter!

13 still off the air in Plainfield. All others are pegging the meter!
13 (actual VHF 13) on all afternoon here in Castleton area at 100%.

I just re-scanned the TV. 13.1 thru .3 coming in great now. Try re-scanning AGAIN!

Just got off of the phone with the GM at WTHI.....they did switch back down to the VHF band (from 24.1 UHF) and are broadcasting on (10.1 & 10.2VHF).....so everyone needs to rescan their televisions or devices. The only question I did not get answered was how strong of a signal that they were broadcasting......As soon as I get that I will let people know....

Just got off of the phone with the GM at WTHI.....they did switch back down to the VHF band (from 24.1 UHF) and are broadcasting on (10.1 & 10.2VHF).
Yes, that's the post-transition channel assignment for WTHI-DT.
....so everyone needs to rescan their televisions or devices.
If WTHI was not advising their viewers to do so, shame on them. In the Indianapolis market, WTHR-DT 13 has been bombarding viewers the past few days with announcements about rescanning after the transition.
The only question I did not get answered was how strong of a signal that they were broadcasting.
According to tvfool.com, WTHI-DT is about 5.6 dB down from WTWO-DT which should be your strongest station.

Here's the link for the tvfool.com analysis for Pimento, Indiana:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d8c34c9611a

I just re-scanned the TV. 13.1 thru .3 coming in great now. Try re-scanning AGAIN!

I already had scanned a second time. Nothing on 13. Scanned a third time, still nothing. All the rest --WTTV-4, WRTV-6, WISH-8, WFYI-20, WNDY-23, WXIN-59, and ION-63-- are fine.

Winegard 1713, CM 4228, CM 777, Samsung DTB-H260F into an HD-ready flatscreen. This set-up has been working like a champion since October 2006 until today.

I read elsewhere where some tvs/tuners/converter boxes had to have the old channel manually deleted before scanning otherwise it would not over-write the channel with the new frequencies. I dont know if thats the case in your setup or not, but it might be worth a shot?

--Eric

13's not there any longer, so can't really delete it. Watching the progress of the re-scan, there seems to be a pause at Ch. 13, like it's trying to decode the signal, but then it just moves on. When the scan is finished, Ch. 13 just isn't listed -- and can't directly tune it, either. Just ain't happening....

13's not there any longer, so can't really delete it. Watching the progress of the re-scan, there seems to be a pause at Ch. 13, like it's trying to decode the signal, but then it just moves on. When the scan is finished, Ch. 13 just isn't listed -- and can't directly tune it, either. Just ain't happening....

Your situation is puzzling me. You've got a good VHF antenna, which is picking up WISH-DT 9, so it doesn't make sense that you would receive it and have nothing from WTHR-DT 13. Plus, I know Greg was there to see your antenna setup shortly after you installed it. I don't know what to tell you at this moment. I did pass along your report to Al Grossniklaus at WTHR.

Steve

I'm just as puzzled, too, Steve. Has WTHR's power/signal pattern/height changed between 46 and 13? And I've always had a picture on WISH, although it's always been my weakest performer. I've got a clear path to the north and the antenna's probably some 35' off the ground. I even removed all the tuned stations and shut down the tuner for a few minutes, starting up and re-scanning. But no cigar...

Thanks for passing my info along to Al. I imagine it's been a busy day for everyone in the business. Meanwhile, I'll be off seeking someplace with the season's final hockey game. Go Penguins!

Well, its after midnight. I watched PBS (analog 20) cut to noise and then WNDY (analog 23) do the same.

My analog scan still finds 5 channels... are these low-powered channels that will stay on, or did someone forget to flip a switch? ;)
* Analog 17
* Analog 47
* Analog 50
* Analog 51
* Analog 63

I guess it actually found 6, if you count analog 4, but I know thats the "nightlight" for the next 2 weeks or so.

Ciao
--Eric

See, civilization did not end today... dunno what the fuss was all about ;)

FWIW, we started answering the phone at 8 AM, and just stopped at 1 AM. We think we've answered about 500 calls.

Some sets/boxes seem to need a "factory default/reset," and then a fresh autoscan from scratch, to pick up stations that have changed frequency.

Low Power stations did not have to shut off today, but 63 is a full power - not sure what's going on there.

Regards to all, giving my poor ear a rest for a day.

Tom Weber
WISH / WNDY / LWS / WIIH Engineering

Anyone in Lafayette have updated reception info for the indy channels? I had a relative getting 6 13 and 59 analog with a little snow using powered set top rabbit ears - what are the odds that I will get anything when I go hook up the digital converter for him tomorrow?

I live in an a apartment complex with a lot of three story buildings around me in the NW part of W. Lafayette. Right now with my RCA ANT806 seven feet off the ground I am able to get WLFI, WRTV, WISH, WTHR, WFYI and WXIN. WISH has a fair amount of pixelation, and WTHR has very little from time to time.

However, I usually only pull in WLFI and occasionally WRTV, and only get this kind of reception on a good night. When I did a rescan this evening at 7:30 I only got WLFI. Not sure why my reception is so much better on some nights, but I was able to get all the stations listed above on good nights before the transition. Hopefully now I'll have more good nights.

Whereas I was SOL receiving WTHR Ch. 13 last night (unable to watch the final Stanley Cup game), this morning I was able to directly tune to 13. And a re-scan found 13.

But the picture freezes & audio drops out. My signal meter shows it at zero bars of ten.

I hope this isn't the best that can be done - and that my reception will be saved by some further tweaking of the broadcast chain upstream from me.

WTTK-DT is now up and on the air on RF channel 29, not 54. With more tower height and power from the Windfall tower, I'm receiving a stronger signal from this station and I'm 29 miles from the tower site.

Hopefully WTTK-DT 29 will be transmitting from the WXIN tower in Indy by late Aug. or Sept. We'll see when the tower crew gets the antenna and transmission line installed.

Steve
Thanks for the heads up on wttk-hd!! receiving at ch 29 here in N.E.Whitley County.40-50% signal strength amd 100% picture quality.Experiencing a nice opening up here this morning.25.1,and 59 solid pic lock again thanks.

Hi everyone,
HTH someone.
My location is SE Indy, historic Irvington neighborhood. Surrounded by very large (100+ year old) trees on all sides.
My main setup is all OTA via an RCA ANT1500 unpowered indoor VHF/UHF antenna going to a GE 23db amplifier. It is placed flat on a cabinet top 8 ft. above the ground and about 10 ft. from my TV cabinet. It is then split 2 ways feeding a Tivo HD PVR and a DTV Pal+ converter box used for quick rescans and signal strength meter only. These both are connected to my Philips 37" LCD HDTV via composite and HDMI. Pre transition I could receive all local digital stations (4, 6, 8, 13, 20, 23, 40, 42, 59, 63, and 69) including all of their sub channels with signals of between 78-95 under normal conditions. Channels 13, 20, 23, 42, 63 and 69 were on the low end showing between approx: 75 to 83 signal strength, and all of the rest were 88-93 with 4, 8, and 59 being the strongest. Only occasional drop outs and pixelation on the weaker stations when the weather was bad or the wind was blowing strong.
After the analog shutoff and 13's move to 13 from 46 it moves to one of the strongest signals...solid 90s. Ch 20s signal also jumped from high 70s to 90s. My rescan also picked up Ch.19 digital with a 90s signal strength. All of the other channels remain the same or better, making the new average signal strengths change to between 85 to 95 with Ch. 63 being the lowest and 19 the highest.
I have another single dipole antenna (magnetic base, came with my USB TV card) hooked up to a 4 way distribution amp (around 4db if I remember right), extended about 18 inches and placed just below the other antenna. It feeds another older DTV Pal converter box and hooks up to my TV via composite and RF connector. It shows about the same range although scaled down so the average is between 68-88.

HTH.

An update to the WTHI-DT statements.

The newscast has been talking about viewers needing to rescan their TV or Coverter Box after Transition for about 2 + months now.

I'm using a DB4 (maily a UHF) antenna routed through a DISH VIP622, after transition I'm picking up:

WTWO 2.1 @ 100%
WFXW 38.1 @ 100%
WTHI 10.1 @ 93-94%
WTHI 10.2 @ 0%

I do have a second antenna running directly to the TV, (a cheap dish-clip-on) and it receives all of the above in addition to 10.2 & (15.1 WICD when the weather is right)

UPDATE Sunday 9:30 AM
from Columbus, IN

It seems that my reception of WTHR (13) is improving. Friday night I got nothing. Saturday morning I got an anemic signal (freezing images, clipped audio) with zero bars of ten in the signal strength meter. This Sunday morning, I'm getting a good clear picture like I had enjoyed on 46, but the signal meter is showing only two bars of ten. Meanwhile, WISH (8) comes in with five of ten bars.

10:00 AM -- ooops! I spoke too soon. WTHR is now back to freezing/clipped anemic signal. Zero bars.

UPDATE Sunday 9:30 AM
from Columbus, IN

It seems that my reception of WTHR (13) is improving. Friday night I got nothing. Saturday morning I got an anemic signal (freezing images, clipped audio) with zero bars of ten in the signal strength meter. This Sunday morning, I'm getting a good clear picture like I had enjoyed on 46, but the signal meter is showing only two bars of ten. Meanwhile, WISH (8) comes in with five of ten bars.

10:00 AM -- ooops! I spoke too soon. WTHR is now back to freezing/clipped anemic signal. Zero bars.

Sounds like you are receiving WTHR-DT's weak signal via some morning tropospheric scatter/enhancement. Atmospheric conditions at night and early morning will sometimes reflect signals and give them extra distance. As the morning sun burns off the upper layer and lower level temperature/humidity/ etc. conditions, that reflection ceases, and then you are back to mostly line of sight reception between the station's transmit antenna and your receive antenna.

Since Friday, I've been reading quite a few accounts, in various TV markets, of very weak signals from stations that transitioned from UHF to hi-VHF. In Chicago, ABC affiliate WLS-DT moved from ch. 52 to ch. 7. A number of viewers in the area are reporting that they have now lost the station. I even read a post that WLS even admitted on one of their newscasts that their signal on ch. 7 was now an issue. My own feeling is that a lot of the VHF DTVs have not been assigned enough power by the FCC. Supposedly the FCC is watching this issue of the transition very closely.

Last evening while I was receiving WDRB-DT 49, Louisville @ 111 miles, I wasn't getting even a hint of signal from WHAS-DT 11, Louisville, which moved from ch. 55 to ch. 11 on Friday. And at just over 100 miles, when I receive the Cincinnati DTVs, the ones on UHF are almost always the first to decode. Sometimes the ones on VHF barely show up.

My 2 cents for the moment.

Steve

Hey Steve, quick question for ya. What can you tell us about the new 19.1? Tower location, height, power, etc? Just curious as to why I'm not able to get it, if its just located on the east side of town. Unless of course, its low power or something. Anyway, just curious... Thanks!

--Eric

Hey Steve, quick question for ya. What can you tell us about the new 19.1? Tower location, height, power, etc? Just curious as to why I'm not able to get it, if its just located on the east side of town. Unless of course, its low power or something. Anyway, just curious... Thanks!

--Eric

Eric, WDNI-LD 19 is a low power digital station, but actually not that low compared to some of the fairly recent low power setups at some area full-power stations. Up until a few years ago, WTTV-DT was operating with 4 kW at a little over 900 ft. WDNI-DT is operating with 15 kW at around 500 ft. but this station does operate with a directional antenna, so some directions from the tower at I-70 & Emerson Av. will not receive that much effective radiated power (ERP). A viewer in Greensburg (with antenna on a tower) is receiving it, and the ERP toward Greeensburg is approx. 5.4 kW. Not bad. A rough estimate looks like they are radiating approx. 8.7 kW in your direction on the west side.

I live 10 miles north of the tower and receive the full 15 kW ERP. Yesterday I was able to receive it at around 90% with a Channel Master 4221 (4-bay) antenna sitting on the ground outside with no preamp, and a fairly long coaxial cable (at least 60-70 ft.) into the house.

BTW, 15 kW is the maximum power allowed by the FCC for these low power digital stations on UHF. Hope this helps.

Steve

Eric, WDNI-LD 19 is a low power digital station, but actually not that low compared to some of the fairly recent low power setups at some area full-power stations. Up until a few years ago, WTTV-DT was operating with 4 kW at a little over 900 ft. WDNI-DT is operating with 15 kW at around 500 ft. but this station does operate with a directional antenna, so some directions from the tower at I-70 & Emerson Av. will not receive that much effective radiated power (ERP). A viewer in Greensburg (with antenna on a tower) is receiving it, and the ERP toward Greeensburg is approx. 5.4 kW. Not bad. A rough estimate looks like they are radiating approx. 8.7 kW in your direction on the west side.

I live 10 miles north of the tower and receive the full 15 kW ERP. Yesterday I was able to receive it at around 90% with a Channel Master 4221 (4-bay) antenna sitting on the ground outside with no preamp, and a fairly long coaxial cable (at least 60-70 ft.) into the house.

BTW, 15 kW is the maximum power allowed by the FCC for these low power digital stations on UHF. Hope this helps.

Steve

Thanks for the information. I've learned a lot about DTV from this forum, and its been interesting to read over the past few months. I'll do a scan in the living room with the other antenna, see if it sees 19.1, sometimes that antenna sees stuff the main one on the myth box can't, and vice-versa. ;) Not the end of the world if I can't end up receiving it, just thought it would be nice to add an extra station to the MythTV roster ;)

Thanks!
--Eric

Since Friday, I've been reading quite a few accounts, in various TV markets, of very weak signals from stations that transitioned from UHF to hi-VHF. In Chicago, ABC affiliate WLS-DT moved from ch. 52 to ch. 7. A number of viewers in the area are reporting that they have now lost the station. I even read a post that WLS even admitted on one of their newscasts that their signal on ch. 7 was now an issue. My own feeling is that a lot of the VHF DTVs have not been assigned enough power by the FCC. Supposedly the FCC is watching this issue of the transition very closely.

I'm in Bloomington and have now lost WTHI (moved from 24 to 10) so this jives with your observation.

I used to get 10 analog pretty well and 10.1 digital very solidly, so I wasn't expecting WTHI to disappear completely with the transition.

Since the transition, I'm getting excellent (5 bars out of 5) reception on these stations:

WTWO
WFXW
WTIU (here in town)
WCLJ
WIPX

and 3 bars on
WRTV
(this is better than last time I scanned in January and now perfectly usable)

but WTHI is gone baby gone. Not even a hint. I was wondering if they were not a full post-transition power yet, perhaps, but haven't found any indication that that's the case.

Last night after dark I was pulling in stations from Louisville as well (e.g., WAVE) without the antenna even being remotely pointed in that direction.

Maybe WTHI will be able to boost their signal. Sure hope so, b/c CBS has all the basketball!

Thanks,
td

Has anyone ever attemepted to inquire about getting Dish network to populate WTTK 29 with the listings they have for WTTV 4? I can get 29 but not 4. 4 has the guide data but 29 just has digital service for all listings.

Thanks

Voyagerbob

I'm in Bloomington and have now lost WTHI (moved from 24 to 10) so this jives with your observation.

I used to get 10 analog pretty well and 10.1 digital very solidly, so I wasn't expecting WTHI to disappear completely with the transition.

Thanks for posting your reception results in Bloomington, but sorry to hear you have now lost WTHI-DT. And as far as I know, the station is operating at 27 kW, which is a power increase that was granted back in December.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15433236&postcount=5178

In early January this comment from the CE at WTHI was posted.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15463895&postcount=5190

I even contacted the CE at WTHI last week and he said that everything was still ready to go for the transition on Friday.

Are you receiving any signal from WTHR-DT 13 or WISH-DT 9, Indy?

Steve

I'm in Bloomington and have now lost WTHI (moved from 24 to 10) so this jives with your observation.

I used to get 10 analog pretty well and 10.1 digital very solidly, so I wasn't expecting WTHI to disappear completely with the transition.

Since the transition, I'm getting excellent (5 bars out of 5) reception on these stations:

WTWO
WFXW
WTIU (here in town)
WCLJ
WIPX

and 3 bars on
WRTV
(this is better than last time I scanned in January and now perfectly usable)

but WTHI is gone baby gone. Not even a hint. I was wondering if they were not a full post-transition power yet, perhaps, but haven't found any indication that that's the case.

Last night after dark I was pulling in stations from Louisville as well (e.g., WAVE) without the antenna even being remotely pointed in that direction.

Maybe WTHI will be able to boost their signal. Sure hope so, b/c CBS has all the basketball!

Thanks,
td

Nat (in Bloomington),

Could you please post your latest reception results? Relating to some of the poor signal issues posted here since Friday, I'd appreciate hearing how you are receiving these stations, especially WTHI-DT 10 and WTHR-DT 13. And how does your signal strength from WISH-DT compare to WTHI-DT and WTHR-DT?

Your report could be very helpful since I know you were able to receive all of the above mentioned stations prior to the changes on Friday. Thanks.

Steve

Since Friday, I've been reading quite a few accounts, in various TV markets, of very weak signals from stations that transitioned from UHF to hi-VHF. In Chicago, ABC affiliate WLS-DT moved from ch. 52 to ch. 7.

Maybe more power is coming soon to DTV stations on VHF.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/talkback/279344-ABC_FCC_Working_on_DTV_Reception_Issues.php#62406

WTHR-DT 13's power increase request was finally approved on Friday. So at the moment, I'm not sure if it is operating at the previously approved power level (a little over 15 kW) or the higher power level of 22 kW. I'll see what I can find out in the next few days.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1315768

Steve

I live off I-65 just south of 465 on the south side. WISH-DT was one of the strongest stations I received before the switch. Even after a rescan on Sunday, I get nothing. Signal meter shows below 25. All the other major networks show 90+. I have an external antenna aimed towards Meridian on the north side.

Am I missing something? Just need to be patient?

OUCH! I have not been home since the analogs have dropped off today (which I hope will help my UHF reception), but I am close to the WLFI tower - have a 32' tower with a large antenna and pre-amp, and have never had what I consider "rock solid" signals from Indy either analog or digital. I suspect that you will be in trouble if you had snowy analogs already. Good Luck![/QUOTE]

Finally had a chance to re-scan over the weekend... MUCH better now with WLFI-SD shut down. I now have great signal on WTTV-DT, and WTTK-DT which were almost nonexistent prior. ALL other UHF carriers are much improved since I no longer have UHF "swamp" on my pre-amp from WLFI-SD. Have not noticed any trouble with WISH-DT or WTHR-DT even though WLFI-DT lies smack in between them in bandwidth. Good riddance ANALOG!!!

Finally had a chance to re-scan over the weekend... MUCH better now with WLFI-SD shut down. I now have great signal on WTTV-DT, and WTTK-DT which were almost nonexistent prior. ALL other UHF carriers are much improved since I no longer have UHF "swamp" on my pre-amp from WLFI-SD. Have not noticed any trouble with WISH-DT or WTHR-DT even though WLFI-DT lies smack in between them in bandwidth. Good riddance ANALOG!!!

I know exactly where the WLFI tower is located. In fact, not too many years after it was built, I was a part-time news reporter for the station for a few months one year while in college.....Didn't know what digital was in those days!!!!

I certainly can relate to your "swamp" comment. I live 3 miles from the WTHR tower and around 5 miles from most of the others on the NW side of Indy. My strong RF load here has been reduced quite a bit with the shutdown of the analogs.

And thanks for your reception report. I was curious how signals were to the north of Indy, as you are the first to report from that direction. And, yes, WTTK-DT with signal from Windfall for right now, should be stronger for you with the additional power. Then when the station moves to the XIN tower, you should get it very well.

Steve

Am I missing something? Just need to be patient?

I read that some people need to do a factory reset on their receiver. It worked for me on one of my boxes. My other box found all the new mappings with a re-scan.

Still at zero bars. I guess their power increase may not have taken effect yet. I'm hoping it will solve my problem. (Of course, they may decide to go back to the UHF band, right?)

Steve - thanks so much for shedding light on what's happening; I feel a lot better that WTHR will return. Also, I especially appreciated learning of the challenges faced by the high-VHF channels. Very interesting.

Tom, I'm on the west side of Brownsburg, and we've lost 23.1 altogether. The rooftop antenna with amplifier has done multiple 360° scans trying to pick it up. Suggestions?

FWIW, we started answering the phone at 8 AM, and just stopped at 1 AM. We think we've answered about 500 calls.

Some sets/boxes seem to need a "factory default/reset," and then a fresh autoscan from scratch, to pick up stations that have changed frequency.

Low Power stations did not have to shut off today, but 63 is a full power - not sure what's going on there.

Regards to all, giving my poor ear a rest for a day.

Tom Weber
WISH / WNDY / LWS / WIIH Engineering

I'll chime in here to say that, while not as dramatically bad as T Heller's situation, my WTHR experience is barely acceptable.
As a rule, WISH was my lowest average signal strength (around 67), although it also varied the least, impacted less by weather and time of day than the UHFs.

The "new" WTHR comes in around the low 70s, and is also less variable over the day. But it also pixelates, drops audio, and frequently goes "off" altogether. I virtually never have those issues with WISH.

I am about 48 miles NW, using Dish Vip OTA tuner.

It just kills me how this all sorted out. Update......picked up a cheap A/B switch and hooked up the outside Channel Master and an indoor $3.00 dollar set of rabbit ears. I get WTHI fine again, but it's still a hassle to flip a switch just to get 10-1.

Once again 9 miles north of THaute, 3 miles south of Clinton.

By the way 25-1 (Channel 6) and 59-1(?) come in fine and dandy during the evening hours. Also as stated before I now get channel 4 twentyfour hours a day now. Curses to those who decided to switch to High VHF as most folks who picked up the converters also seem to have picked up the cheap UHF indoor antennas as well from the folks I've talked to.

It just kills me how this all sorted out. Update......picked up a cheap A/B switch and hooked up the outside Channel Master and an indoor $3.00 dollar set of rabbit ears. I get WTHI fine again, but it's still a hassle to flip a switch just to get 10-1.

Once again 9 miles north of THaute, 3 miles south of Clinton.

By the way 25-1 (Channel 6) and 59-1(?) come in fine and dandy during the evening hours. Also as stated before I now get channel 4 twentyfour hours a day now. Curses to those who decided to switch to High VHF as most folks who picked up the converters also seem to have picked up the cheap UHF indoor antennas as well from the folks I've talked to.

are you sure your 25-1 is channel 6 Indy? Because I believe it is supposed to show the virtual number, which if that's the case then you MAY be getting WEHT ABC out of Evansville, which is broadcasting unless it changed recently on VHF channel 7. Which their virtual channel would be 25.

Tom, I'm on the west side of Brownsburg, and we've lost 23.1 altogether.
I'm on the west side of Brownsburg, too, and I get 23.1. This is with a 2-year-old Sony HDTV and a $10 set of rabbit ears sitting on a bookcase next to the TV. It took some careful tweaking of the antenna, but I'm getting enough of a signal for the receiver to lock.

Tom, I'm on the west side of Brownsburg, and we've lost 23.1 altogether. The rooftop antenna with amplifier has done multiple 360° scans trying to pick it up. Suggestions?

Welcome to AVS Forum!

Nothing changed for WNDY-DT 32 (23.1) last Friday, but your receiver might be a little confused due to the change at another area station. Because your antenna is aimed somewhat to the east, your antenna is most likely picking up some signal from WIPB-DT 23 (49.1, 49.2), Muncie (PBS). Within a few hours of WNDY-23 shutting down the analog transmitter late Friday night, WIPB-DT moved from actual RF ch. 52 to ch. 23 very early Saturday morning.

Various DTV receivers seem to be different in handling these kind of issues where the remapped channel number (23.1) of one station matches the actual RF channel number (23) of another station. Keep trying your re-scans and/or check the manual to see if the tuner in your receiver will allow you to manually add WNDY-DT if it was somehow deleted or if WIPB-DT has now replaced it during a scan (23.1 vs 23).

Let us know if you get it resolved.

Steve

I even contacted the CE at WTHI last week and he said that everything was still ready to go for the transition on Friday.

Are you receiving any signal from WTHR-DT 13 or WISH-DT 9, Indy?

Steve

No, I don't get anything from WTHR-DT or WISH-DT, but that is the same as before the transition. Too many hills/trees directly north of my location, I think. Occasionally they would come in analog, though.

WISH in particular I would be interested in since WTHI is gone, but no luck yet.

td

No, I don't get anything from WTHR-DT or WISH-DT, but that is the same as before the transition. Too many hills/trees directly north of my location, I think. Occasionally they would come in analog, though.

WISH in particular I would be interested in since WTHI is gone, but no luck yet.

td

Ok, thanks for the feedback. Your terrain issues are fairly common in the Bloomington area. That's why I'm curious to hear back from Nat, who lives somewhere on the far north side of Bloomington on higher ground. Prior to Friday, he recently reported that he was receiving all the full-power stations from Indy as well as Terre Haute. His report might help us gauge the signal changes at WTHR-DT and WTHI-DT.

If prior to Friday's changes your reception of WTHI-10 (analog) was somewhat weak or snowy, that's not the best sign that you will now be receiving enough signal from DT-10.

Steve

are you sure your 25-1 is channel 6 Indy? Because I believe it is supposed to show the virtual number, which if that's the case then you MAY be getting WEHT ABC out of Evansville, which is broadcasting unless it changed recently on VHF channel 7. Which their virtual channel would be 25.

Yep I'm sure. Actually I rescan everyday because like Gump "it seems you never know what you're going to get". Once I punch in 25-1 it does remap to 6-1 out of Indy. I'm using a plain old CM4228 with a preamp 7777(?) off my back deck in the middle of trees and more trees. Surprised I can get anything
considering where I'm located. But then again when things get soupy I'm able to watch stuff out of Dayton Ohio and yet live close to the Indiana/Illinois border.

But.... then I can struggle capturing a signal out of Champaign Illinois at only 40 miles and yet find a Decatur channel just fine. Makes you want to pull your hair out at times.

Ok, thanks for the feedback. Your terrain issues are fairly common in the Bloomington area. That's why I'm curious to hear back from Nat, who lives somewhere on the far north side of Bloomington on higher ground. Prior to Friday, he recently reported that he was receiving all the full-power stations from Indy as well as Terre Haute. His report might help us gauge the signal changes at WTHR-DT and WTHI-DT.

If prior to Friday's changes your reception of WTHI-10 (analog) was somewhat weak or snowy, that's not the best sign that you will now be receiving enough signal from DT-10.

Steve

WTHI analog was always receivable, but would have some snow esp. during daytime. In the evenings it was quite good, very little snow. That's why I had hopes of getting WTHI-DT at least in the evenings after the transition.

I may try some antenna combinations or alterations to see if I can pull it down. Saw some threads here with suggestions. Maybe just a Yagi pointed due west towards WTHI.

Thanks,
td

Edit: Here's the TVfool report for my location if you're interested:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d6f0f4f236c

WTHR is at 100% for me now. I had to slightly repoint my directional antenna - after the switch it dropped from 85% to about 70%.

4-1: 60-64 (not watchable)
6-1: 88
8-1: 100
13-1: 100
23-1: 94
59-1: 96

WTHR is at 100% for me now. I had to slightly repoint my directional antenna

It's still pegging at zero bars for me.

Al G (you out there?): can you fill us in on what's happening?

So, I found a funny today...

Was just watching last nights recording of Friends on WTTV 4.1, and oddly noticed a, Uh, DTV notice on the screen.

The transition is happening in -5 days!!!


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=145574&stc=1&d=1245252168

LOL.....FUNNY

Perhaps they are trying to keep the procrastinators holding on for a while longer. :o

Are you sure it's not a problem with your recorder?

Check to see if its clock is flashing "12:00:00" :D

(That's an old joke from the NTSC/VCR era, in case you're not aware....)

It's still pegging at zero bars for me.

Al G (you out there?): can you fill us in on what's happening?

I haven't received a reply from Al G. either since I forwarded your initial reception report on DT 13. I'm sure he is busy this week working through some new issues with the new transmitter setup.

I read yesterday that a network station in Boston, that switched its DTV from ch. 42 to ch. 7 received so many calls about spotty reception or no reception at all, that on Monday the station filed for immediate approval to turn its UHF ch. 42 transmitter back on the air. It was approved and at least by yesterday afternoon both DTV transmitters were on the air until the station and the FCC can work out a final plan. Interesting times.

Steve

I read yesterday that a network station in Boston, that switched its DTV from ch. 42 to ch. 7 received so many calls about spotty reception or no reception at all, that on Monday the station filed for immediate approval to turn its UHF ch. 42 transmitter back on the air. It was approved and at least by yesterday afternoon both DTV transmitters were on the air until the station and the FCC can work out a final plan.
In general, I think the stations should be given some leeway to insure that they have the same signal coverage area post-transition as before.

The problem with a VHF station, like 13, going back to UHF is the huge amount of money they have tied up in the VHF transmitter. I'm told that WTHR 13's VHF transmitter is a Harris solid-state unit that is not that old. What would they do with it if the FCC let them go back to 46?

I haven't received a reply from Al G. either since I forwarded your initial reception report on DT 13. I'm sure he is busy this week working through some new issues with the new transmitter setup.

(...) Interesting times.

They sure are!! What would we do without all this excitement?!

bb37 raises a good point....and yes, I'm confident Al G is 'booked'.

Are you sure it's not a problem with your recorder?

Check to see if its clock is flashing "12:00:00" :D

(That's an old joke from the NTSC/VCR era, in case you're not aware....)


*grin* I got a good kick out of it at least ;)

--E

I think someone forgot to turn off the countdown timer program over there at WTTV ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=145664&stc=1&d=1245307999

I think someone forgot to turn off the countdown timer program over there at WTTV ;)


(to once again remind everyone of my age, I'll offer this comment.)

That reminds me of the hilarious (audio) parody 60's-era comic Stan Freeberg did of 'The Lawrence Welk Show', when 'the bubble machine' malfunctioned.

"Turn off the bubble machine!!," gurgled Lawrence as the sound set seemed to float off somewhere into the ether.

This appears to be the digital transition equivalent. ;)

P.S. The Rolling Stones also had a music video where the bubble machine just about drowned their drummer, Charlie Watts.

Well last night, I switched my set-up a bit to see if I could pull in any additional channels.

Now have a Terk Dish-Clip-on diplexed with the DishNetwork line connected to the VIP622 with results of:

WTWO 2.1 (80-83%)
WTHI 10.1 (76-79%)
WTHI 10.2 (75-79%)
WICD 15.1 (62-71%)
WFXW 38.1 (82-88%)

As soon as the storms came this morning all channels were very sporatic dropping out.

My previous option was a DB4 pointing towards the (3) networks in Farmersburg with results of:

WTWO 2.1 (100%)
WTHI 10.1 (93%)
WTHI 10.2 (0.00)
WICD 15.1 (0.00)
WFXW 38.1 (100%)

It's really a toss up, do I risk signal loss to be able to watch ABC??

MStepp99

I read that some people need to do a factory reset on their receiver. It worked for me on one of my boxes. My other box found all the new mappings with a re-scan.Thanks for the response. As it turns out, patience did the trick. WISHDT now comes in at 90+, no rescan or resets necessary. Here's another sign I'm getting old. I remember having maybe 6 channels to choose from. And even though I've had digital OTA for 3 years now, during the rescan it really hit home how many channels are available OTA these days. Sure, I may not watch all the channels, but there are many more choices out there.

Here's another sign I'm getting old. I remember having maybe 6 channels to choose from.
I grew up in Frankfort, Indiana, in the 1960's. We had a black and white Zenith TV. I think it had a UHF tuner...one of those with no channel detents, just continuous tuning. Dad put a antenna up in the attic of our two story house. We got 4 (independent), 6 (NBC, yes, NBC, sometime in the mid 70s, 6 and 13 switched networks), 8 (CBS), and 13 (ABC). Period.

When we moved to Logansport in 1972, Dad went with the local cable system rather than bother with an antenna. In addition to the previously-mentioned four channels, we also got ABC, NBC, and CBS stations from South Bend, WLFI 18 from Lafayette, WGN and WFLD from Chicago so the locals could watch Cubs and White Sox games, and WTTW (PBS) from Chicago. Still, that's only 11 channels. That was my first exposure to PBS programming. As a high schooler, I thought Monty Python was very funny. Mom and Dad weren't so amused. ;)

I thought Monty Python was very funny.


As another "old timer" I must say now THAT was TV!

I've got a question about a CW affiliate in indianapolis. I am up in Lafayette and got the CW analog (ch. 29) in albeit slightly snowy. Now I am stuck trying to pull in the digital and it is near impossible without buying a rotor. Now, I thought I read somewhere that they were planning on moving to windfall and taking over tower and transmitting from indianapolis. Am I making this up? If they are planning on it, when should it happen. My wife isn't too happy when she cant watch her shows.

I read on http://dtvindiana.info/indianapolis.html that the "Final DTV" will be constructed August 17th. Is that what I am looking for?

Thanks!

Yes, that would appear to be what you are waiting on.

Is anyone in the area seeing WIWU-CD 51 in Marion?

- Trip

Yes, that would appear to be what you are waiting on.

Is anyone in the area seeing WIWU-CD 51 in Marion?

- Trip

Burton, some of the info at the site you linked to has been changed, in part because that site still indicates the DTV transiton date was Feb. 17. Because of that delay, there could be other delays in getting the transmitter site for WTTK-DT moved from Windfall to Indy at the WXIN tower. One of the engineers at WXIN/WTTV/WTTK recently told me that a tower crew has been scheduled for August to do the necessary work on the WXIN tower (remove old top-mounted WXIN-59 antenna, install new top-mounted WXIN-DT 45/WTTK-DT 29 combo antenna and new transmission line). If they get the work done in August, it's likely to on the air by late Aug. or sometime in Sept. We'll see if these almost daily showers/thunderstorms stop by August!


Trip, I didn't realize that station had flash cut. A couple late nights/early mornings last week I was receiving the analog on ch. 51, through local WIPX-LP 51, which has been MIA since last Sat. or Sun. That station is 53 miles NE of my location in Indy. I'll look for it over the next few days, but at 1.45 kW and 53 miles, I'll definitely need some good tropo in the area to decode that one.

Steve

Sunday 8 AM update

Last night, I started seeing much improved reception on WTHR down here in Columbus; it was registering four bars.

I kept my fingers crossed, and this morning it seems things are holding steady, even further improved. I'm getting an excellent picture (no pixelization or freezing and no audio drops) and it's registering 5-6 bars.

I'm a happy man.

---------
Sunday 10:30 AM update

Back to zero bars Cannot watch "Meet the Press".

Gaining appreciation for the tropospheric effect....

Not a happy man.

Sunday 8 AM update

Last night, I started seeing much improved reception on WTHR down here in Columbus; it was registering four bars.

I kept my fingers crossed, and this morning it seems things are holding steady, even further improved. I'm getting an excellent picture (no pixelization or freezing and no audio drops) and it's registering 5-6 bars.

I'm a happy man.

---------
Sunday 10:30 AM update

Back to zero bars Cannot watch "Meet the Press".

Gaining appreciation for the tropospheric effect....

Not a happy man.

I just received an email from an OTA viewer in Kokomo (approx. 38-39 miles north of the WTHR tower) and his reception of WTHR-DT 13 is very strong and stable. I'm not sure why yours is so weak to the south.

Yes, your stronger signal level during the early morning hours is related to the tropospheric effect of reflecting signals, thus giving you more mileage. Around 7:20 this morning, a new low power (15 kW) digital station in Jasper, IN, WJTS-LD 18, popped up with a fairly strong signal for a few minutes. I'm located 115 miles NNE of its tower site. Another DXer in Lexington, KY also received this station this morning @ 134 miles.

Steve

Was there any multicasting on WJTS-LD?

- Trip

Is anyone in the area seeing WIWU-CD 51 in Marion?

- Trip

Trip, I now know it's on the air. My receiver decoded the PSIP info sometime overnight. With the right conditions, maybe I'll be able to decode video from this 1.45 kW station @ 53 miles in the future.

Steve

Was there any multicasting on WJTS-LD?

- Trip

I didn't check for multicasting, so I'm not sure.

It scanned for me this weekend.

I'm on the west side of Brownsburg, too, and I get 23.1. This is with a 2-year-old Sony HDTV and a $10 set of rabbit ears sitting on a bookcase next to the TV. It took some careful tweaking of the antenna, but I'm getting enough of a signal for the receiver to lock.

Indeed it's all working. We were delighted to get a strong channel-30 from Bloomington. With one more channel than WFYI we have a choice now for PBS... never felt like we had one with WFYI

Welcome to AVS Forum!

Nothing changed for WNDY-DT 32 (23.1) last Friday, but your receiver might be a little confused due to the change at another area station. Because your antenna is aimed somewhat to the east, your antenna is most likely picking up some signal from WIPB-DT 23 (49.1, 49.2), Muncie (PBS). Within a few hours of WNDY-23 shutting down the analog transmitter late Friday night, WIPB-DT moved from actual RF ch. 52 to ch. 23 very early Saturday morning.

Various DTV receivers seem to be different in handling these kind of issues where the remapped channel number (23.1) of one station matches the actual RF channel number (23) of another station. Keep trying your re-scans and/or check the manual to see if the tuner in your receiver will allow you to manually add WNDY-DT if it was somehow deleted or if WIPB-DT has now replaced it during a scan (23.1 vs 23).

Let us know if you get it resolved.

Steve

we have a choice now for PBS... never felt like we had one with WFYI

Man, you can say that again!!

WFYI's the only PBS station I can receive, but its programming has really spiraled downward in the past year (and then in April, they sold DT20.2 to Vme's Spanish-language programming.) Wish I could get WFIU...

Welcome to AVS Forum!

Nothing changed for WNDY-DT 32 (23.1) last Friday, but your receiver might be a little confused due to the change at another area station. Because your antenna is aimed somewhat to the east, your antenna is most likely picking up some signal from WIPB-DT 23 (49.1, 49.2), Muncie (PBS). Within a few hours of WNDY-23 shutting down the analog transmitter late Friday night, WIPB-DT moved from actual RF ch. 52 to ch. 23 very early Saturday morning.

Various DTV receivers seem to be different in handling these kind of issues where the remapped channel number (23.1) of one station matches the actual RF channel number (23) of another station. Keep trying your re-scans and/or check the manual to see if the tuner in your receiver will allow you to manually add WNDY-DT if it was somehow deleted or if WIPB-DT has now replaced it during a scan (23.1 vs 23).

Let us know if you get it resolved.

Steve

I also have not been able to find 23.1 in the last week or so. I have a brand new Vizio, an brand new Samsung, and I also have an OTA module for my D*** 722 that will no longer find it! Any ideas??? I have been so busy lately, I really don't recall how long it has been, but I am pretty certain that i have had it since the changeover, but no longer!

I also have not been able to find 23.1 in the last week or so. I have a brand new Vizio, an brand new Samsung, and I also have an OTA module for my D*** 722 that will no longer find it! Any ideas??? I have been so busy lately, I really don't recall how long it has been, but I am pretty certain that i have had it since the changeover, but no longer!

23.1 has been terribly spotty for me the past week or so. The only thing I record on it is South Park at 11:35pm, but I don't think I've had a "successful" recording of that in the past week.

--Eric

Nat (in Bloomington),

Could you please post your latest reception results? Relating to some of the poor signal issues posted here since Friday, I'd appreciate hearing how you are receiving these stations, especially WTHI-DT 10 and WTHR-DT 13. And how does your signal strength from WISH-DT compare to WTHI-DT and WTHR-DT?

Your report could be very helpful since I know you were able to receive all of the above mentioned stations prior to the changes on Friday. Thanks.

Steve

I am so sorry it took me so long to reply to your post, Steve. I have been out of town for a week, then got busy catching up on stuff left behind.
I am still receiving 10-1, but it is clearly weaker, with occasional pixellation. I don't have a good numeric meter on my HTL-HD, but the "bad-normal-good" meter shows a substantially weaker signal on 10-1 than before. 13-1 is solid, but the signal is also very clearly weaker, and is now the weakest of the Indy stations (6,8,13,20,59). I can't figure out why 8-1 (VHF) is so strong, while 10-1 and 13-1 (now VHF) are so weak.
I hate it, because I had started to watch more of the Terre Haute stations.
Nat

I also have not been able to find 23.1 in the last week or so. I have a brand new Vizio, an brand new Samsung, and I also have an OTA module for my D*** 722 that will no longer find it! Any ideas??? I have been so busy lately, I really don't recall how long it has been, but I am pretty certain that i have had it since the changeover, but no longer!

I'm getting it at 96% on my Dish 722 tonight. I can't say that I've actually recorded anything on this channel, but it's coming in OK.

On your 722, you might try deleting all your local channels from the receiver (go into the settings / local channels / then select all and delete). Exit out of setup, then go back in and do a full rescan and add them all in again. I had to do this in order to get channel 13 after the switchover.

Nat, no problem, but thanks a lot for your update. Since you are located between the Indy and Terre Haute markets, it's interesting to read your comments about WTHI-DT 10 and WTHR-DT 13. I'm glad you are receiving both stations but unfortunately they are both weaker.

Steve

Nat, no problem, but thanks a lot for your update. Since you are located between the Indy and Terre Haute markets, it's interesting to read your comments about WTHI-DT 10 and WTHR-DT 13. I'm glad you are receiving both stations but unfortunately they are both weaker.

Steve

That seems to 100% correct, and that's too bad! I feel sorry for the stations involved, and hope they can both somehow "get stronger."

Nat

That seems to 100% correct, and that's too bad! I feel sorry for the stations involved, and hope they can both somehow "get stronger."

Nat

And your results are similar to T Heller's in Columbus. He continues to get WISH-DT 9 just fine but now rarely gets WTHR-DT 13. But prior to 6/12, he received WTHR-DT on channel 46 just fine. Since WTHR-DT was recently approved for its power increase, WISH and WTHR are running virtually the same power. WTHI is running about 4-5 kW more power than either Indy station.

WISH-DT 9 with 22.8 kW @ 932 ft.
WTHI-DT 10 with 27 kW @ 961 ft.
WTHR-DT 13 with 22 kW @ 981 ft.

At least to the south and southwest of Indy, WISH-DT 9 seems to have the stronger signal.

Steve

It would be interesting to see what the stations look like on a spectrum analyzer and what their respective EVMs are.

Two signals of equal strength, one with an EVM of 2.5 will be easier to receive than one with an EVM of 5. I have to wonder what's different about WTHR versus WISH, if this is it or if there's another factor which I can't think of... Has anyone tried an FM trap?

- Trip

And your results are similar to T Heller's in Columbus. He continues to get WISH-DT 9 just fine but now rarely gets WTHR-DT 13. But prior to 6/12, he received WTHR-DT on channel 46 just fine. Since WTHR-DT was recently approved for its power increase, WISH and WTHR are running virtually the same power. WTHI is running about 4-5 kW more power than either Indy station.

WISH-DT 9 with 22.8 kW @ 932 ft.
WTHI-DT 10 with 27 kW @ 961 ft.
WTHR-DT 13 with 22 kW @ 981 ft.

At least to the south and southwest of Indy, WISH-DT 9 seems to have the stronger signal.

Steve

Here's what I think the FCC and Channel 10 thought was going to happen in terms of coverage.
Maybe they're not at full power yet.....

Channel 10-1 broadcasting on UHF 24
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1129758.html

Channel 10 broadcasting on VHF 10
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1259389.html

Here's another link:

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report_0609/Terre_Haute_IN.pdf

And your results are similar to T Heller's in Columbus. He continues to get WISH-DT 9 just fine but now rarely gets WTHR-DT 13. But prior to 6/12, he received WTHR-DT on channel 46 just fine.

Confirmation/clarification as of 1PM Friday. After spotting Steve's post, I checked the signal strength for WTHR-13 and for WISH-8 and WRTV-6 (6 is still in UHF, right?)

WTHR-13 = 0 bars of 10
WISH - 8 = 3-4 bars
WRTV- 6 = 5 bars


In the evening, I get an 'acceptable' signal (~ 2 bars) from WTHR, so can watch prime-time shows like "The Office" with very minor imperfections. I think the morning signal is OK, too ("two"), but midday it's nowhere.

WTHR now takes honors as the weakest Indy station for me.

http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/06/18/daily.5/?print
Your FCC at work!

Just in case it helps any. Typically the 'signal strength' display for HDTV is not strength in the classic analog terms but more of a quality meter. A weak but clean signal will display pretty well but a strong signal with lots of multipath interference will display poorly. The meter will reflect this though I don't have a clue how the strength vs quality is weighted.

So moving your antenna may help. Particularly if the frequency used has changed. If it's just multipath reaiming may work. Otherwise if the change was from VHF to UHF it may take a change in altitude or antenna. UHF is more line of sight than VHF.

Then to they could just be at very low power as originally stated. That would be disappointing. Not like there wasn't years of notification or anything for the stations to prepare.

Thanks for the info, Les. I may fiddle a bit with the aim of my VHF antenna, a Winegard 1713. (I'll have to wait for the temps to moderate, though.)

I sure hope we start seeing some benefits to all this soon.

My signals on both 13 and 8 (both at 100%) have dropped out completely for brief periods several times over the last two weeks. This never happened before.

Can anyone one give me any information about tvgos in the Indianapolis area. Since the changeover to digital my guide has not worked. Are there going to be any Indy stations sending the data?

WFYI-DT should have the TVGOS data.

- Trip