WFYI-DT should have the TVGOS data.

- Trip

Trip,
I can verify that TVG1 & TVG2 are still there in the stream after the change over, as displayed by TSReader. Sorry I have no TVGOS device yet, so I can't say the data is working for sure. Maybe someone else can respond.

Trip,
I can verify that TVG1 & TVG2 are still there in the stream after the change over, as displayed by TSReader. Sorry I have no TVGOS device yet, so I can't say the data is working for sure. Maybe someone else can respond.

I don't have a TVGOS device either, though I'm still thinking about getting a DTVPal Plus.

Have there been any changes to the local stations since you last sent me TSReader data? I'd like updates to anything that's changed since that time; for example, I'd like a capture of WTHR that has Universal Sports in it.

Thanks. :)

- Trip

I don't know if it is the weather, my fooling with my rotor, or if 10-1/13-1 have made something better. Either way, their signals are stronger today in Bloomington.
I would describe them as rock solid (between the oo's in good:)).
I guess I'm in a really good location/elevation to be receiving these signals so well, and perhaps jumped to conclusions earlier.
Time will tell!

From http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/06/18/daily.5/

Other stations whose permanent digital channel is the same as their old analog channels are now using their old analog transmission plant for digital and that plant may not have been adequately retrofitted for digital, they say.

Finally, they say, some of the new VHF stations are simply underpowered.

These two lines may be particularly germane to the WTHI situation.

Didn't they switch their digital signal from their UHF antenna to their existing analog antenna? I can't remember for sure.

I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing weaker signals on WTHI. I stopped by a local shop the other day and talked to a knowledgeable guy there ... he said a couple of interesting things:

1) Most people are having more trouble with the Indy stations than WTHI. My experience is the opposite.

2) Some folks have tried dedicated hi-band VHF antennas but haven't had much success. Seems that if it's gone, it's way gone.

I've been pulling in WMYO and WDRB from Louisville pretty consistently at night recently. Maybe I'll try to track down their CBS affiliate.

td

I don't know if it is the weather, my fooling with my rotor, or if 10-1/13-1 have made something better. Either way, their signals are stronger today in Bloomington.

Your fiddling may be the explanation. My signal for WTHR-13 right now (2:15 PM Sat) is still pegging the bottom of the meter at 0 bars. No pic.

I haven't made any changes yet, so if your experience is instructive, I may benefit from twiddling around with my antenna.

I don't have a TVGOS device either, though I'm still thinking about getting a DTVPal Plus.

Have there been any changes to the local stations since you last sent me TSReader data? I'd like updates to anything that's changed since that time; for example, I'd like a capture of WTHR that has Universal Sports in it.

Thanks. :)

- Trip

Yea...I hope DISH gets it together.

I need a refresher on how you want me to "Export" that data. (check boxes)
I PM'd you about the same.

Your fiddling may be the explanation. My signal for WTHR-13 right now (2:15 PM Sat) is still pegging the bottom of the meter at 0 bars. No pic.

I haven't made any changes yet, so if your experience is instructive, I may benefit from twiddling around with my antenna.

Well, the better reception on 10-1 and 13-1 this morning was apparently caused mostly by the weather.
The Terre Haute stations are a little weaker tonight, but 10-1 is a lot weaker (the "o" is in "normal" this time, not in "good".....)
13-1 was the same deal. 10 degrees off on the antenna, and it wasn't even visible. Best I could get was the "r" in normal. It is without question the weakest Indy station again. Baseball game on 59-1 was between the o's in good, as a comparison.

Since the changeover to digital my TVGOS has not updated. I recieve all of the same digital stations that I received before the changeover. Even now get a few that I didnt get before. The only problem that I had was that channel 13.1 thru 13.3 took a couple of days to appear. Now no problem other than the tvgos. So if WFYI-DT is sending the data shouldnt I be receiving it?

Your fiddling may be the explanation. My signal for WTHR-13 right now (2:15 PM Sat) is still pegging the bottom of the meter at 0 bars. No pic.

I haven't made any changes yet, so if your experience is instructive, I may benefit from twiddling around with my antenna.

I also have no signal for WTHR. If they changed their broadcast freq it could be that I haven't rerun a channel scan. All the other Indy locals are still in the 80+ range.

A repeat of the channel scan put WTHR-DT back among the living.

A repeat of the channel scan put WTHR-DT back among the living.

My 10-1 and 13-1 both set new records for lack of signal strength. 13-1 was not watchable for a while, and 10-1 hit a new signal low.
Please, more power or back to UHF......

My 10-1 and 13-1 both set new records for lack of signal strength. 13-1 was not watchable for a while, and 10-1 hit a new signal low.
Please, more power or back to UHF......


I second the motion. Al - are you listening?

T. Heller and Nat, as of today (6/30), here's what some DTV stations on VHF want to do to improve their signals http://www.rabbitears.info/vhf.php Even if WTHR-DT wanted to request more power, I'm not sure it would ever get approved, considering how the Indy area is virtually surrounded by other DTVs on channel 13, like Grand Rapids, Toledo, Columbus (OH), Lexington, Bowling Green (KY), and Rockford (IL).

Due to your weak or no signal situation with WTHR-DT, Nat has the option to watch WTWO-DT, another NBC affiliate. T. Heller, it looks like you should be able to receive WAVE-DT 47 (3.1), Louisville (NBC) @ approx. 61 miles (tower high on a peak in Floyds Knobs, IN) if you had a rotor or could turn your CM 4228 antenna to the south. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=13989
The only other NBC affiliate close (??) to you would be WLWT-DT 35 (5.1), Cincinnati @ approx. 76 miles.

Steve

Thanks for the information on the various VHF "refilings", Steve. Very interesting.

About two years ago, I twice tried pulling in Louisville's ABC station, in the hope of watching the 500 live, but I was unsuccessful. My greatest hope would be for WTHR to go back to UHF, but if they haven't asked the FCC for any post-transition change, I suspect they're not particularly interested in doing so.

T. Heller and Nat, as of today (6/30), here's what some DTV stations on VHF want to do to improve their signals http://www.rabbitears.info/vhf.php Even if WTHR-DT wanted to request more power, I'm not sure it would ever get approved, considering how the Indy area is virtually surrounded by other DTVs on channel 13, like Grand Rapids, Toledo, Columbus (OH), Lexington, Bowling Green (KY), and Rockford (IL).

Due to your weak or no signal situation with WTHR-DT, Nat has the option to watch WTWO-DT, another NBC affiliate. T. Heller, it looks like you should be able to receive WAVE-DT 47 (3.1), Louisville (NBC) @ approx. 61 miles (tower high on a peak in Floyds Knobs, IN) if you had a rotor or could turn your CM 4228 antenna to the south. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=13989
The only other NBC affiliate close (??) to you would be WLWT-DT 35 (5.1), Cincinnati @ approx. 76 miles.

Steve

Great information Steve, even though it wasn't what I was hoping for. I can get 2-1 very well, so that's good for me. And 8-1 is great, so it covers for 10-1. Not all VHF stations are in the same boat, apparently.
Lots of rotation going on around here....
Not such good news for Tom, though.
Nat

Switched out my A/B switch for a UHF/VHF combiner since I'm too lazy to get up. Has worked out ok but will have to see what the conclusions are in a few days. WTHI comes through fine and dandy now, but it seems I've lost some strength possibly on the UHF side since adding the combiner. Really shouldn't have made a difference, but I was getting WTTV 24/7 and now it will drop out at some points.

Forgot to add something about a week ago. Had a whale of a time picking up locals one night (drop outs), but had a station out of Paducha KY WPSD just booming in like crazy.

A TV DXer on the southeast side of Indy confirmed this morning that WREP-LP 15, Martinsville, has flash cut from analog to digital. According to the DXer, the PSIP did not include any call letters, only channel number 15-1. According to the FCC file, this station is operating at just 200 watts, but the signal made it to Indy this morning.

Steve

I received this post-transition update earlier today. Thanks, Al.............. Steve

............................................................ ......................................


Recovered from the all night session Thu – Fri June 11th - 12th reconstructing the WTHR VHF analog transmitter and antenna plant for digital operation and helping man the DTV help center over that weekend. Since then been tied up in other corporate engineering activities so haven’t been able to get something out to you until now. I’ll recognize the great folks on the 13 engineering staff who pulled off the huge overnight transmitter/antenna reconstruction/plumbing task quickly and efficiently.


In fact WTHR did get the 22 kW grant Friday the 12th at the last minute (nothing like the FCC taking it to the wire, I’m told they had some computer issues which delayed issuing some increases until then) so since Friday afternoon June 12th, WTHR has been at 22 kW digital on channel 13, similar to WISH.


I very much appreciate the reports – and we’ve had a mix of reception reports.


By far the most calls/contacts we’ve gotten were in the first few days and, as Tom Weber noted, the vast majority (80%) have been from people having no idea that they needed to re-scan and have no idea how to do it (of course they trashed their manual long ago – but we put a number of manuals online and also spent incalculable hours talking most through successful rescanning).


I’ll summarize what we’ve found in a couple weeks of VHF DTV sans analog, pro and con:


Digital signal parameters on the VHF transmission end look great – better than achievable on most UHF transmitters.


Distant reception of WTHR’s digital signal and also multipath performance have generally improved with VHF as anticipated. (people tend to forget the ongoing complaints of UHF high channel (46) DTV breakup when things got a little breezy, and the difficulty with reception of the high UHF DTV channels at some distance) Since June 12th several distant viewers who’ve had marginal UHF DTV reception from Indy now report significant improvement with the VHF 13 DTV signal locking in better than the UHF 46 signal or other Indy UHF DTV signals, and signal stability in a high dynamic multipath environment (windy etc.) is measurably much improved.


All cable headends successfully transitioned to WTHR DTV VHF 13 including systems as distant as Rockville and Union City.


I’ve also gotten some reports of degraded reception at more moderate distances (around 50 mi), including THeller, which we are investigating. I’ve also had some reports of improved reception at similar distances. This seems to be location and antenna specific – for instance CableTek in Nashville reports WTHR DTV 13 as their strongest measured Indy signal. And with their similar power and location, WTHR’s and WISH’s VHF signal levels should be comparable – and, as expected, reports are of one or the other maybe a bit better at a given location/antenna but have had no reports of good reception of one and absolutely no reception at all of the other.


One unfortunate aspect of the June transition is that we are right in the middle of Tropo/inversion season so the reports of significantly varying reception may to some extent be interference from distant channel 13s brought in via Tropo/inversion layer ducting. Until the huge high pressure dome moved on a few days ago, VHF Tropo/inversion was fairly hot - why RWB noted a Paducah station booming in. Analog co channel TV interference was fairly easy to identify, with digital not so – on a DTV set’s “signal bar”, co channel can look like a low signal level varying slowly over time. So co channel is one of the things we are evaluating as one possible cause of variations in reception.



Have had closer in reports of reception improvement – such as jdr1354’s report of improved reception in Irvington and IndyJeff’s report and others I’ve gotten directly – but also have had a number of reports of reception problems from people who generally turn out to be using indoor antennas with marginal or poor VHF performance and often whose analog and digital reception was not really good to begin with. Quite a few of these have been resolved by moving the indoor antenna to another location or getting them to swap the fancy $$ "digital" antenna they were sold back to their old trusty "VHF rabbit ears & UHF loop".



Have had a few puzzling reports of absolutely no reception of WTHR VHF DTV 13 from viewers who otherwise have a great location, antenna setup and general reception, similar to hoosierky. These turned out to be that a few models of DTV sets/converter boxes require deletion of the old WTHR DTV UHF channel 13s before scanning in the new VHF channel 13 in order for the set/box to scan in and recognize the new WTHR channel 13 DTV signal and overwrite the new WTHR digital into its memory. (since the WTHR VHF digital signal carries the digital stream that was on the WTHR UHF channel some sets mistakenly think it is the same old signal so do not overwrite the old UHF channel info unless it is manually erased from its memory) So in these cases deleting the existing 13.1, 13.2 and 13.3 and then re-scanning (or as hoosierky found, sometimes re-scanning several times) locks the WTHR VHF 13 digital signal right in. This is also likely the reason that hoosierky has two 13.1s, 13.2s and 13.3s - his HDTV set still has one old set of WTHR info and one new set of WTHR info in its memory - this is fixed by simply deleting the old.



I very much appreciate and take each report seriously within the context of all feedback and data. Initial reports and data from the UHF to VHF stations/markets around the country are just now being gotten and compiled and will be evaluated by the FCC and the Broadcast industry over the coming weeks. I’m sure you’ll see lots more in the trade publications in the coming months. The industry and the FCC will process reports and field data from stations (I appreciate the AVS reports as I compile all of the AVS reports (anonymously) into our overall reception data) and the FCC will then determine whether to modify DTV assignments. I don’t think the FCC will make any significant changes until new FCC Chairman Genachowski takes his seat and sets the agenda.


Al Grossniklaus

Director of Engineering and Operations

WTHR NBC

Indianapolis

Trip, altho you're correct in saying that a station with lower EVM would be easier to decode, both WISH and WTHR are using solid state, wideband transmitters, and we're both in the low-to-mid 30s for S/N, so somewhere about 2.0 or less in EVM. Biggest difference between us is that WTHR is using circular polarization, and WISH is using horizontal only.

Based on the sum total of all the comments, I'm not sure which one of us is the better off!

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH etc.

I figured that it wasn't a likely scenario, just the most obvious one that popped into my head.

I've seen a solid state VHF transmitters put out an EVM of 8, so I never rule out bad EVM just because it's solid state! :D

- Trip

193 pages is a lot to read through, and I have only managed about 20.

I am moving to Zionsville, IN at the end of this year/beginning of next. I am hoping someone can give an antenna recommendation. I know I will not be too far from a tower farm to the southeast. I would like to attic mount (yes, I know I can do it outside) an antenna in a 2-story house (with a line going to the basement). Antennaweb.org shows a mix of VHF and UHF stations, and I have read a bit of the discussion of a few stations switching.

Anyhow, would a large multidirectional get me any (worthwhile) stations outside of Indianapolis? What are people using for both UHF and VHF? Can anyone from the Zionsville area share their experience?

Trip, altho you're correct in saying that a station with lower EVM would be easier to decode, both WISH and WTHR are using solid state, wideband transmitters, and we're both in the low-to-mid 30s for S/N, so somewhere about 2.0 or less in EVM. Biggest difference between us is that WTHR is using circular polarization, and WISH is using horizontal only.

Based on the sum total of all the comments, I'm not sure which one of us is the better off!

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH etc.

I can only comment that WISH continues to blow the socks off of WTHR at my house North of Bloomington:)
On a side note, I picked up 15-1 (WREP) tonight, which is truly amazing. I could barely receive analog 15, and figured I had no chance to pick up their digital signal.

>>I've seen a solid state VHF transmitters put out an EVM of 8

Only when the pre-corrector loses its mind, I assume! (Not that I would know....)

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH

>>I've seen a solid state VHF transmitters put out an EVM of 8

Only when the pre-corrector loses its mind, I assume! (Not that I would know....)

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH

Whatever it was, it was like that for months, and probably more months before it was brought to my attention.

It finally got fixed shortly after the transition, so the signal at least looks somewhat better on a spectrum analyzer. I don't have access to a tool to check the EVM now (it's at the shop).

http://www.rabbitears.info/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=299

EVM of about 7 I think at the time of that picture.

- Trip

Has anyone caught any signal reports from WLFI-DT Ch 11. How reliable is the signal into the fringe areas.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH

I almost forgot, I thought you and some of the others in this thread might get a kick out of this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16806811#post16806811

Am I insane? Most likely. :D

- Trip

Has anyone caught any signal reports from WLFI-DT Ch 11. How reliable is the signal into the fringe areas.

I'm not sure about that. I live exactly 40 miles SSE of the tower near Rossville and the signal seems to vary quite a bit here, especially before June 12 when WHAS-11, Louisville was still on the air, as it would sometimes interfere with the signal. WHAS digital, now on ch. 11, doesn't seem quite as strong, at least most of the time.

A few years ago a viewer just north of Marion posted a comment that he received WLFI-DT quite well.

Steve

I can only comment that WISH continues to blow the socks off of WTHR at my house North of Bloomington:)
On a side note, I picked up 15-1 (WREP) tonight, which is truly amazing. I could barely receive analog 15, and figured I had no chance to pick up their digital signal.

Congratulations on receiving the mighty and powerful .2 kW (200 watts) signal from WREP-LD 15, Martinsville, Nat. I came very close to decoding the station this morning @ a distance of 38 miles NNE of Martinsville. It just wasn't quite strong enough to decode with my stacked antennas @ 43 ft. AGL.

But, I might add, WREP came closer to decoding this morning than WTHI-DT 10 (27 kW @ 961 ft. @ 82 miles) has since June 12. One morning last week while WFXW-DT 39 was totally pegging the signal meter and WTWO-DT 36 was almost that strong, WTHI-DT 10 was barely showing up on the signal meter. That's the only time in a month that I could even tell that WTHI-DT was on the air. I know my highband VHF antenna system is working fine as I've been able to receive WCPO-DT 10 and WKRC-DT 12, Cincinnati numerous times since June 12. I've seen WHAS-DT 11, Louisville several times and WINM-DT 12, Angola (transmitter/tower across the state line in Ohio) with a short tower @ 433 ft. And last weekend I was able to receive WLIO-DT 8, Lima, OH with a short tower @ 486 ft. and at a distance of 119 miles. I'm not sure why some of these VHF stations like WTHI seem to have such weak signals.

Steve

Congratulations on receiving the mighty and powerful .2 kW (200 watts) signal from WREP-LD 15, Martinsville, Nat. I came very close to decoding the station this morning @ a distance of 38 miles NNE of Martinsville. It just wasn't quite strong enough to decode with my stacked antennas @ 43 ft. AGL.

But, I might add, WREP came closer to decoding this morning than WTHI-DT 10 (27 kW @ 961 ft. @ 82 miles) has since June 12. One morning last week while WFXW-DT 39 was totally pegging the signal meter and WTWO-DT 36 was almost that strong, WTHI-DT 10 was barely showing up on the signal meter. That's the only time in a month that I could even tell that WTHI-DT was on the air. I know my highband VHF antenna system is working fine as I've been able to receive WCPO-DT 10 and WKRC-DT 12, Cincinnati numerous times since June 12. I've seen WHAS-DT 11, Louisville several times and WINM-DT 12, Angola (transmitter/tower across the state line in Ohio) with a short tower @ 433 ft. And last weekend I was able to receive WLIO-DT 8, Lima, OH with a short tower @ 486 ft. and at a distance of 119 miles. I'm not sure why some of these VHF stations like WTHI seem to have such weak signals.

Steve

WCPO/9 (RF 10) will reportedly fire up their permanent digital antenna, at full power and full height, at 12:05 AM tonight, right after "Nightline" goes off. They've moved the antenna to the top of their tower, and after preliminary tests today, say it's a "go" for this evening. It will be interesting to see if this improves distant reception too, although they're obviously hoping for improvements in their signal right here at home! Their VHF signal has been the biggest DTV problem by far here in the Cincinnati market.

That leaves only Dayton's WHIO/7 (RF 41) as a local station still tweaking their digital antenna. Just like WCPO, WHIO is currently moving their permanent antenna to the top of their tower; no end date has been announced, but it should be soon!

WCPO/9 (RF 10) will reportedly fire up their permanent digital antenna, at full power and full height, at 12:05 AM tonight, right after "Nightline" goes off. They've moved the antenna to the top of their tower, and after preliminary tests today, say it's a "go" for this evening. It will be interesting to see if this improves distant reception too, although they're obviously hoping for improvements in their signal right here at home! Their VHF signal has been the biggest DTV problem by far here in the Cincinnati market.

That leaves only Dayton's WHIO/7 (RF 41) as a local station still tweaking their digital antenna. Just like WCPO, WHIO is currently moving their permanent antenna to the top of their tower; no end date has been announced, but it should be soon!

Thanks for the update. Since June 12, my observations, when tropo enhancement kicks up the area signals, indicate WKRC-DT 12 is usually stronger than WCPO-DT 10. This should help WCPO's signal.

....One morning last week while WFXW-DT 39 was totally pegging the signal meter and WTWO-DT 36 was almost that strong, WTHI-DT 10 was barely showing up on the signal meter. That's the only time in a month that I could even tell that WTHI-DT was on the air....

Steve

This is all so strange. I finally messed around at my son's house (South of Bloomington) and the only station from Terre Haute he gets well is 10-1! But his line of sight to Terre Haute has trees in the way. I still believe 10-1 (WTHI-DT) is very weak.

Nat

ps. Love that Martinsville 200 watter!

I'm setting on the fence waiting for DISH network to get their OTA DTVPal DVR's working right before I spend a whole $250. :D They've had many problems in the past, and seem to be stuck on getting the TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) system working right. Many at this topic http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071 seem to think this problem is market related.
So please let me ask this question; Is anyone receiving WFYI (the INDY TVGOS supplier station) and using a DTVPal DVR have any issues? Especially with the clock losing or gaining time, thus failing to record a complete scheduled show.

Thanks Much,

FWIW, I had a chance to check OTA signal strengths from WISH-DT 9 and WTHR-DT 13 on the south side of Kokomo yesterday around 1 p.m. Using an old outdoor Radio Shack VHF antenna sitting on a box in the attic of a ranch house, with no preamp, and connected to a Zenith DTT901 converter box, the WISH signal (@ 38 miles) was virtually at the top end of the signal bar and rock steady. The WTHR signal (@ 35 miles) was virtually as high with just a very slight signal fluctuation up and down.

Steve

FWIW, I had a chance to check OTA signal strengths from WISH-DT 9 and WTHR-DT 13 on the south side of Kokomo yesterday around 1 p.m. Using an old outdoor Radio Shack VHF antenna sitting on a box in the attic of a ranch house, with no preamp, and connected to a Zenith DTT901 converter box, the WISH signal (@ 38 miles) was virtually at the top end of the signal bar and rock steady. The WTHR signal (@ 35 miles) was virtually as high with just a very slight signal fluctuation up and down.

SteveThanks for this info. Do you get any channels from Chicago?

FWIW, I had a chance to check OTA signal strengths from WISH-DT 9 and WTHR-DT 13 on the south side of Kokomo yesterday around 1 p.m. Using an old outdoor Radio Shack VHF antenna sitting on a box in the attic of a ranch house, with no preamp, and connected to a Zenith DTT901 converter box, the WISH signal (@ 38 miles) was virtually at the top end of the signal bar and rock steady. The WTHR signal (@ 35 miles) was virtually as high with just a very slight signal fluctuation up and down.

Steve

How have Cincinnati's two VHF stations, WCPO and WKRC, been for you lately? Has WCPO's distant reception improved since their latest tower tweaks?

How have Cincinnati's two VHF stations, WCPO and WKRC, been for you lately? Has WCPO's distant reception improved since their latest tower tweaks?

Rich, tropo conditions have not been very good since WCPO switched to the new top-mounted antenna, but I haven't been able to see much of a difference so far. It's been difficult to determine. WCPO might be slightly stronger but yet WKRC tends to have more interference in this area, usually from WINM-DT 12, Angola, IN, which tends to knock its signal down a little.

I really need a little more time to actually see if I can tell any difference.

Steve

Rich, tropo conditions have not been very good since WCPO switched to the new top-mounted antenna, but I haven't been able to see much of a difference so far. It's been difficult to determine. WCPO might be slightly stronger but yet WKRC tends to have more interference in this area, usually from WINM-DT 12, Angola, IN, which tends to knock its signal down a little.

I really need a little more time to actually see if I can tell any difference.

Steve

Yeah, even though I don't have lots of better-quality equipment to do more "professional" DXing, I enjoy checking out what distant signals I can pick up. It has been hard to get much recently -- I'll usually see a low digital signal dancing around on the meter, and can guess which city and station it must be, but no picture locks in.

Bob Fairchild, the CE at WIPB-DT 23 (49.1 & 49.2), Muncie (PBS) reports that the station is now operating with 250 kW, up from 79 kW since early June 13 when the station transitioned from ch. 52 to ch. 23. Bob would enjoy knowing how reception is around the area, so feel free to post your observations. Thanks.

Steve

Bob Fairchild, the CE at WIPB-DT 23 (49.1 & 49.2), Muncie (PBS) reports that the station is now operating with 250 kW, up from 79 kW since early June 13 when the station transitioned from ch. 52 to ch. 23. Bob would enjoy knowing how reception is around the area, so feel free to post your observations. Thanks.

Steve

Now, I almost always see a signal on RF 23 near Hamilton OH, which occasionally locks into a picture. Guess this explains why! I'll have to take a look at their map to see how far to the southwest their normal coverage should go -- which brings up a question. Does the FCC update all those online "predicted coverage maps" after approving increases in broadcast power? There have been plenty of these increases all across the country, with more to come (if approved).

WIPB is doing great over on the westside of Indy. I used to have the DB8 pointed right at them, now I can be looking SW at Cincy and still have good reception.

On 6/26/09, I reported the following post-transition signal strength readings:

WTHR-13 = 0 bars of 10
WISH - 8 = 3-4 bars
WRTV- 6 = 5 bars
---------------

Following a slight adjustment to the azimuth of my antenna, to approx 10 degrees west of due north, the signal strengths I'm getting as I write are:

WTHR-13 = 4 bars of 10 (best in the past two days; more typically it's been at 2)
WISH - 8 = 4 bars (has been fluctuating between 3 and 4 these past two days)
WRTV- 6 = 8 bars (also up from its previous 7 reading)

Conclusion: careful attention to the aim of one's antenna can pay dividends. -D'Oh!!-

Tom;
Glad for your recent success, but I have to report that my recent signal levels are "crazy good."
I am getting the Martinsville 200 watt station perfectly, and 23-1, which is something like 75 miles from me has been bombing in stronger than ever. It is normally hit and miss.
13-1 and 10-1, which had been problems, are rock solid.
I guess it's possible my antenna is finally "tuned in," but I'm more inclined to give this weird under 80 degree summer weather some credit.
Let's see how each of us do when it's about 95 degrees.
Nat

Yes, I'll be keeping a close watch on it.

On 6/26/09, I reported the following post-transition signal strength readings:

WTHR-13 = 0 bars of 10
WISH - 8 = 3-4 bars
WRTV- 6 = 5 bars
---------------

Following a slight adjustment to the azimuth of my antenna, to approx 10 degrees west of due north, the signal strengths I'm getting as I write are:

WTHR-13 = 4 bars of 10 (best in the past two days; more typically it's been at 2)
WISH - 8 = 4 bars (has been fluctuating between 3 and 4 these past two days)
WRTV- 6 = 8 bars (also up from its previous 7 reading)

Conclusion: careful attention to the aim of one's antenna can pay dividends. -D'Oh!!-

Glad to read about your good news. Yes, antenna aim is KEY with DTV, especially when working with weaker signals at your distance. Depending on the beamwith of your particular antenna, sometimes changing the azimuth reading just a few degrees can make or break your reception.

Steve

Has anyone else been experiencing a problem with channel 59's signal? Over the past week, I noticed the picture breaking up and pixelating to the point of almost dropping out entirely. At first I thought it must be DishNetwork receiver, but it is doing the same thing over the air. It happens about every 15 minutes or so.

Bright House Networks Indianapolis launches new HD Channels and more coming:
Versus Ch. 772,
Speed HD Ch. 764
Golf Ch. 737
Cartoon Network Ch. 745
Fox News Ch. 759

Bright House Networks Indianapolis launches new HD Channels and more coming:
Versus Ch. 772,
Speed HD Ch. 764
Golf Ch. 737
Cartoon Network Ch. 745
Fox News Ch. 759

Cool, has Comcast in Indy added anything recently?

Bright House Networks Indianapolis launches new HD Channels and more coming:
Versus Ch. 772,
Speed HD Ch. 764
Golf Ch. 737
Cartoon Network Ch. 745
Fox News Ch. 759
As of this morning, only 745 and 772 have been added to Brighthouse's feed at my house in Hendricks County.

As of this morning, only 745 and 772 have been added to Brighthouse's feed at my house in Hendricks County.

You're right....just saw this in the press release "Versus HD and Cartoon Network HD launched on Friday while the others are set to go live within weeks"

Interesting - this AM I was getting very high sig strengths - I was able to get some stations without even aiming at them - such as WTIU, WNDY. Usually I have trouble getting them even when I aim at them. WTHR was 95-100 when it normally is 70-75.
The punch line, though, was that I couldn't get Fox 59 at all, even though my antenna was pointed their way the entire time.

Interesting - this AM I was getting very high sig strengths - I was able to get some stations without even aiming at them - such as WTIU, WNDY. Usually I have trouble getting them even when I aim at them. WTHR was 95-100 when it normally is 70-75.
The punch line, though, was that I couldn't get Fox 59 at all, even though my antenna was pointed their way the entire time.

You were experiencing some tropospheric scatter/enhancement this morning. The signals are reflected and as a result gain extra miles and strength. Thursday morning I was receiving stations as far away as Canton, OH and Youngstown, OH (299 miles).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_scatter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_propagation

Because this condition increases out-of-market station signals into this area, these signals can interfere with the local signals when they are on the same channel. Most likely another DTV on RF channel 45 (possibly WEVV, Evansville or WSNS, Chicago, off the back of your antenna), the same as Fox 59, was entering your antenna and more or less cancelling both signals, so you received nothing. When this happens, a little tweaking of the antenna (a few degrees one way or the other) will usually maximize the stronger signal to decode and minimize the weaker signal.

Steve

Station WREP-LD, the mighty 200 watt powerhouse broadcasting from Martinsville, IN (licensed to the Metropolitan School District Of Martinsville) is now broadcasting three subchannels.
15-1&4 are currently trying to get me to visit a fantastic hotel, the Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge in Alberta Canada. If I watch much longer, I may be on my way to Alberta this winter. 15-2&3 are showing Martinsville weather.
I commend all involved, and am anxiously awaiting future changes.

Nat

ps. Man, that is one neat lodge! Queen Elizabeth II has been there.

Direct TV is running channel 49 (WIPB) here in Hendricks county. I have been gone for a few weeks, so if this old, sorry.

P.S. In SD only, no HD

A tower crew is scheduled to arrive at the WXIN tower site August 17 to begin taking down the old top-mounted ch. 59 analog antenna and then installing the new top-mounted digital combo antenna for WXIN and WTTK. This will raise the antenna height a little bit for WXIN and raise the antenna height for WTTK over 200 ft. plus increase the ERP from the current 50 kW to 550 kW.

Steve

As an entertaining-yet-related aside, I caught this show on Nat'l Geo a couple of weeks ago about replacing a tall tower antenna:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/worlds-toughest-fixes/3564/Overview#tab-Videos/06097_00

A tower crew is scheduled to arrive at the WXIN tower site August 17 to begin taking down the old top-mounted ch. 59 analog antenna and then installing the new top-mounted digital combo antenna for WXIN and WTTK. This will raise the antenna height a little bit for WXIN and raise the antenna height for WTTK over 200 ft. plus increase the ERP from the current 50 kW to 550 kW.

Steve

Keep us posted on the progress.

WIIH channel 17 was turned off on Thursday, as it is being converted to digital. Its digital channel will be 8, tho it will show up as 17-1 as its virtual channel number. It should pop back up on the air later this week. Content will remain LWS at this time.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY / WIIH / etc.

Great opening this morning!! WTHR 13.1 here in N.E.Indiana with a 6ft parabolic.At this frequency I might as well use a dummy load! Looking forward to installing a ch 7-13 hi band vhf yagi!!!

Great opening this morning!! WTHR 13.1 here in N.E.Indiana with a 6ft parabolic.At this frequency I might as well use a dummy load! Looking forward to installing a ch 7-13 hi band vhf yagi!!!

The signal must have been quite strong to catch WTHR's VHF signal on a UHF parabolic. Good catch.

From here this morning, I was seeing DTVs from Fort Wayne to Lima, OH, to Toledo and a little later in the morning (about 9:30) to Detroit, including WJBK-DT 7 (231 miles), which moved from ch. 58 to ch. 7 on 6/12.

As mentioned above, you'll have to try for the new WIIH-LD 8, which should be on the air within the next day or two. But you'll most likely need a good VHF antenna for it.

Steve

According to Rick Poling at WXIN, the tower crew arrived in town yesterday and is currently getting set up. Most likely, actual tower/antenna work will not begin until Saturday.

Steve

Dayton's WHIO/7 (RF 41) completed major tower work this weekend, moving its permanent digital antenna to the tip-top. Has anyone around Indianapolis seen an improvement in its distant signal?

They predicted a general improvement in reception, particularly to the southwest of Dayton, and that was absolutely correct! WHIO is now just about as strong here as Cincinnati's much closer WKRC/12 (RF12) :D

How about to the west?

I have not really done much research on this yet, but I have D**h and a DuoDVR ViP 722 receiver with an OTA module (a very cool option imho). I thought it would make life easier for wifey to watch and record her soap operas (and it is). I had subscribed to locals off D**h also, but decided that was probably dumb, so I cancelled them a few days ago. Now I do not get any programming info on the 722's guide display on the OTA channels.

My assumption is that it just swiped the info from the sat channels previously and now cannot do that (although that was never always correct with the D**h info on all channels). Anyone in this boat? Now it just shows "Digital Service" for all OTA channels at all times.

My assumption is that it just swiped the info from the sat channels previously and now cannot do that (although that was never always correct with the D**h info on all channels). Anyone in this boat? Now it just shows "Digital Service" for all OTA channels at all times.

Yep. DISH Network receivers get their OTA guide information from the satellite guide (including sub channel information, when provided). No satellite subscription, no channel information.

BTW: Check to make sure your receiver isn't leased ... otherwise prepare to box it up and send it back to DISH (or pay a non-return fee).

Bright House Networks Indianapolis launches new HD Channels and more coming:
Versus Ch. 772,
Speed HD Ch. 764
Golf Ch. 737
Cartoon Network Ch. 745
Fox News Ch. 759
All now online in Hendricks County. However, the audio sync on Fox News is awful.

I have not really done much research on this yet, but I have D**h and a DuoDVR ViP 722 receiver with an OTA module (a very cool option imho). I thought it would make life easier for wifey to watch and record her soap operas (and it is). I had subscribed to locals off D**h also, but decided that was probably dumb, so I cancelled them a few days ago. Now I do not get any programming info on the 722's guide display on the OTA channels.

My assumption is that it just swiped the info from the sat channels previously and now cannot do that (although that was never always correct with the D**h info on all channels). Anyone in this boat? Now it just shows "Digital Service" for all OTA channels at all times.

You need to sub to local channels to get OTA in the guide. Well worth it for programming recordings. Otherwise, you will have to set manual timers

BTW: Check to make sure your receiver isn't leased ... otherwise prepare to box it up and send it back to DISH (or pay a non-return fee).
Most everyone leases their receivers from Dish, as well as DirecTv subs.

Most everyone leases their receivers from Dish, as well as DirecTv subs.
Yes, which is why I suggested that a person who has canceled their service makes sure they return their leased receiver(s). It is possible to buy receivers ... but fairly expensive.

Yes, which is why I suggested that a person who has canceled their service makes sure they return their leased receiver(s). It is possible to buy receivers ... but fairly expensive.

He canceled his locals, not his service.

FYI

I am on the Anderson headend and have noticed many new digital simulcasts of Comcast's analog channels. And a couple of weeks ago, my cablecard equipped Tivo appears to have been instructed to actually tune to the digital version of the channels and not the analog ones. However, my non cablecard equipped devices are still tuning the analog versions so they haven't dropped them yet.

The interesting thing that I discovered last night is that they have apparently turned off the CCI byte 0x02 flag which was on almost all non-broadcast digital channels. Now they are coded 0x00 which permits me to download programs to my PC and/or move them to my bedroom Tivo. The one exception I have seen is the Encore channels which I believe are considered "premium" channels.

Will the free DTA converter box be far behind so they can reclaim the analog band?

He canceled his locals, not his service.
That is correct. I just dumped local subscription. I love the 722 though. I won't be getting rid of it any time soon, but I miss the local program descriptions (sniff-sniff)...

On another note, the 722 gets pretty hot inside an entertainment center. I put a fan in the back of the cabinet, but it is awful loud. Anybody have a recommendation on quiet fans? I have tried to come up with a speed control to just slow down the fan I have (3.5" muffin fan) which would then make it quieter, but had no success so far.

Sorry. Getting a little off topic here...

According to Rick Poling at WXIN, the tower crew arrived in town yesterday and is currently getting set up. Most likely, actual tower/antenna work will not begin until Saturday.

Steve

We have DirecTV locals and an off air antenna and my wife has been telling me that for the last couple of days in the morning the DirecTV feed displays a 'your station is having technical problems' and the off air appears to be receiving Telemundo Chicago. I did check and it appears to be on channel 45 also - but I have a small attic antenna so that is really confusing.

Is the antenna still being worked on - and is that the explanation I should give to the missus ?


Thanks
Bill

We have DirecTV locals and an off air antenna and my wife has been telling me that for the last couple of days in the morning the DirecTV feed displays a 'your station is having technical problems' and the off air appears to be receiving Telemundo Chicago. I did check and it appears to be on channel 45 also - but I have a small attic antenna so that is really confusing.

Is the antenna still being worked on - and is that the explanation I should give to the missus ?


Thanks
Bill

I haven't received any updates on the new antenna project, but I have driven near the tower a couple times this week but per a visual glance, I haven't noticed any antenna changes so far. I don't know for certain, but if the tower guys have been up the tower, more than likely the output power from the transmitter has been reduced from time to time to protect them from too much signal radiation.

Another explanation for receiving WSNS-DT 45, Chicago (Telemundo...yes, you are correct) at least yesterday (Tue.), was due to an intense tropospheric duct through the Midwest that had TV and FM signals from IA, IL and MI in and out throughout the entire day. I saw DTV stations from Hannibal, MO, Iowa City, IA, Davenport, IA, LaSalle, IL, and Chicago. Then last evening, stations from Kalamazoo, Lansing, Detroit, Toledo and Cleveland showed up. This kind of activity can interfere with the local stations, especially those distant stations on the same channels as the locals, like WXIN and WSNS on channel 45.

Steve

This afternoon, my Dishnetwork program guide says WXIN HD if Off Air until six tonight, but it's still on.

This afternoon, my Dishnetwork program guide says WXIN HD if Off Air until six tonight, but it's still on.

At 2:48 p.m., WXIN is off the air via OTA. Cable and sat companies might be receiving them via a direct line. Tower crew must be working on the tower/antenna project.

Steve

Shortly after I discovered that WXIN was off the air this afternoon, I had a chance to drive by the tower and found the tower crew in their work bucket almost at the top of the tower, just opposite the side-mounted digital antenna. That's why the station was off the air. The gin pole is in position along the top-mounted analog antenna, which will now be unbolted and removed. Now, depending on Friday's weather (rain in the forecast), it appears the old antenna will be coming down.

My camera doesn't have a very good zoom lens to look up almost 1000 ft., but I did take a few pics. The first one has the best angle to see the top area of the tower, with the current side-mounted antenna sticking out off the right side, the gin pole (gold color) along the left side of the top antenna and down the left side of the very top of the tower.

In the second picture, at approximately 3:45 p.m., you can see the tower crew guys coming down in the suspended bucket.

The third picture is just a little different angle of the tower.

Thanks to WISH-TV, I took these pictures from the nearby WISH Park, near the intersection of West 71st and Michigan Road.

Steve

FWIW, while I was taking the WXIN tower pics, I took pictures of three other towers which are viewable from WISH Park.

The first pic is the WISH tower, just northwest of the WXIN tower.

The second pic shows three towers (from left to right): the old WHMB analog tower, the new WHMB-DT candelabra tower, and the lower portion of the WISH tower.

Steve

At 2:48 p.m., WXIN is off the air via OTA. Cable and sat companies might be receiving them via a direct line. Tower crew must be working on the tower/antenna project.

Steve

They are off the air again on Dish Network again this morning a 9am.

".......the new WHMB-DT candelabra tower....."

Steve,

Just curious. What is the significance (if any) of this type of antenna setup?

BTW, thanks for the picture. I always wondered which station had that particular antenna configuration.

Alex

A candelabra can hold multiple broadcast antennas in a top-mounted position on a single tower.

- Trip

Anyone know the status of WTTK move?

Anyone know the status of WTTK move?
wttk is running infomercials stating in the fall the Windfall site will be going away with a list of counties that will be effected.

Anyone know the status of WTTK move?

I'm not sure. I haven't been by the WXIN tower site this week to check on progress with the antenna project.

At 9:15 a.m., WGTE-DT 29 (30.1), Toledo, @ 184 miles, is in. I won't be seeing this station after WTTK fires up from the WXIN tower.

Steve

Anyone know the status of WTTK move?

Update: The old WXIN-59 analog antenna has been removed from the tower but the new WXIN/WTTK digital antenna has not yet been mounted atop the tower.

Steve

Has WIIH signed on digitally? I see a license app this morning.

- Trip

Has WIIH signed on digitally? I see a license app this morning.

- Trip

Not a hint of it yet. Supposedly it was going to hit the air about two weeks ago, but I heard the station had some issues to work through.

Steve

Has WIIH signed on digitally? I see a license app this morning.

- Trip

UPDATE: At approximately 10:40 a.m., I was looking to see if WLIO-DT 8, Lima, OH was going to decode when all at once WIIH-LD 8, Indy popped up. The new station is now on the air featuring LWS (Local Weather Station) from sister station WISH-TV. I'd be interested in knowing if you are able to receive it from your location and if so, what type/kind of antenna you are using.

Meanwhile, I noticed, as of about 35 minutes ago, WXIN is off the air again, so apparently the tower crew is working on the new digital antenna.

Steve

Yup, it's on the air, you may have seen it sign on!

Looks like we forgot to put a 75 ohm termination on the video input loopthru, we'll try to get that at lunchtime. At least that doesn't cause overmodulation, in digital!

Tom Weber
Engineering

Great opening this morning,WAND from Central Illinois,WKYC Cincinnati,WLIO Lima Ohio, Toledo ch 13.1 dt,WLFI DT 11.1,WISH,AND WTHR Indianapolis using Antennacraft Y-10 at 50 ft .

I'd be interested in knowing if you are able to receive it from your location and if so, what type/kind of antenna you are using.

I'm going to assume that statement was not directed at me. :D

- Trip

UPDATE: At approximately 10:40 a.m., I was looking to see if WLIO-DT 8, Lima, OH was going to decode when all at once WIIH-LD 8, Indy popped up. The new station is now on the air featuring LWS (Local Weather Station) from sister station WISH-TV. I'd be interested in knowing if you are able to receive it from your location and if so, what type/kind of antenna you are using.

Meanwhile, I noticed, as of about 35 minutes ago, WXIN is off the air again, so apparently the tower crew is working on the new digital antenna.

Steve

Steve, your booming in Hendricks County halfway between Avon and Plainfield. Nice and clear picture, no pixelating at all.

Radio Shack antenna on top of the house with a pre-amp.

WXIN was back on last night. Tried to pick up WTTK, but got nothing on a re-scan.

At 6:35 AM WTTV- DT ch 48.1 from the Trafalgar site here into N.E. Indiana!!

I see WXIN is off air most of the day. Getting close to the end with WTTK on the tower?

The new WXIN/WTTK digital antenna was lifted to the top of the tower and bolted in position today. Here at 4:19 p.m., WXIN is still off the air, so the workers must be working near the top of the tower. I found out that the station hopes to have WTTK-DT 29 on the air from the WXIN tower site by the end of next week.

............Now at 4:22 p.m., WXIN is now back on the air.

Steve

I'm a Dish Network customer in West Lafayette, so I can't get my locals from Dish Network. I am able to pull in all of the Indy locals at night with the tropo-effects EXCEPT WTHR, so I attempted to get a waiver from WTHR so I could receive NBC from AAD, but I just found today that it was denied. Has anyone had success with having WTHR approve the waiver for AAD? Using the app at FCC's Digital Transition Reception Maps it claims that I have a weak signal, so I assume that is less than Grade B, so I don't know what else I can do to prove to WTHR that I can not get them OTA. Any suggestions?

I'm a Dish Network customer in West Lafayette, so I can't get my locals from Dish Network. I am able to pull in all of the Indy locals at night with the tropo-effects EXCEPT WTHR, so I attempted to get a waiver from WTHR so I could receive NBC from AAD, but I just found today that it was denied. Has anyone had success with having WTHR approve the waiver for AAD? Using the app at FCC's Digital Transition Reception Maps it claims that I have a weak signal, so I assume that is less than Grade B, so I don't know what else I can do to prove to WTHR that I can not get them OTA. Any suggestions?
I suggest a little patience. Supposedly, WTHR extended their present contract with Dish till the end of September while they are hashing out new terms for including HD.

I'm a Dish Network customer in West Lafayette, so I can't get my locals from Dish Network. I am able to pull in all of the Indy locals at night with the tropo-effects EXCEPT WTHR, so I attempted to get a waiver from WTHR so I could receive NBC from AAD, but I just found today that it was denied. Has anyone had success with having WTHR approve the waiver for AAD? Using the app at FCC's Digital Transition Reception Maps it claims that I have a weak signal, so I assume that is less than Grade B, so I don't know what else I can do to prove to WTHR that I can not get them OTA. Any suggestions?

Dish Network cannot sell INDY locals into the Lafayette DMA for several reasons including the fact that they do not offer WLFI-18 on satellite. I would suggest a better OTA antenna or Directv. I am in the same situation. My location is 5 miles South of Lafayette and I get all INDY stations strong including Muncie PBS (ch 49) and WTTK 29 the latter two most of the time after sundown. Hopefully with the tower work completed at WXIN I will be able to receive WTTK all the time. I have a Winegard HD (forgot the model number)but it is the latest and greatest mounted on my rooftop.

According to the DishNetwork Twitter page, WTHR-HD will be on tomorrow, 9/16.

I'm a Dish Network customer in West Lafayette, so I can't get my locals from Dish Network. I am able to pull in all of the Indy locals at night with the tropo-effects EXCEPT WTHR, so I attempted to get a waiver from WTHR so I could receive NBC from AAD, but I just found today that it was denied. Has anyone had success with having WTHR approve the waiver for AAD? Using the app at FCC's Digital Transition Reception Maps it claims that I have a weak signal, so I assume that is less than Grade B, so I don't know what else I can do to prove to WTHR that I can not get them OTA. Any suggestions?


I agree with the other lafayette post. If you can, switch to Direct TV. I know in my zip 47909 you can get indy/lafayette locals through direct. I also can get all major indy channels (6, 8, 13, 20, 59) and lafayette 18 without dropouts all day long. 29 is hit or miss for me without a rotor, but that will be fixed soon. I currently am located on Beck Ln. and have a roof mounted CM-4228 antenna and CM-7777 preamp with an approximately 120 foot long coax run and still get great reception.

All four of my NBC (13.1) recordings are a big fat FAIL tonight... and I didn't catch it until after the last one was being recorded to try to do anything about it. I'm barely able to lock onto 13.1 right now, and when I do... the signal is crap. Absolutely nothing has changed in my setup, antenna hasn't moved, nothing... and every single other channel comes in perfect.

Great timing, considering it was the return of the NBC Thursday Night Comedies.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

--Eric

All four of my NBC (13.1) recordings are a big fat FAIL tonight... and I didn't catch it until after the last one was being recorded to try to do anything about it. I'm barely able to lock onto 13.1 right now, and when I do... the signal is crap. Absolutely nothing has changed in my setup, antenna hasn't moved, nothing... and every single other channel comes in perfect.

Great timing, considering it was the return of the NBC Thursday Night Comedies.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

--Eric
The FCC needs to allow the high powered VHF stations more wattage!! WRTV outperforms WTHR
hands down here in N.E.Indiana.The digital television scheme or scam is a great example of lawyers running a communications agency into the ground (FCC).

The FCC needs to allow the high powered VHF stations more wattage!! WRTV outperforms WTHR
hands down here in N.E.Indiana.The digital television scheme or scam is a great example of lawyers running a communications agency into the ground (FCC).

Oh Boy. BTW, WTHR did increase a couple of months ago.

All four of my NBC (13.1) recordings are a big fat FAIL tonight... and I didn't catch it until after the last one was being recorded to try to do anything about it. I'm barely able to lock onto 13.1 right now, and when I do... the signal is crap. Absolutely nothing has changed in my setup, antenna hasn't moved, nothing... and every single other channel comes in perfect.

Great timing, considering it was the return of the NBC Thursday Night Comedies.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

--Eric

Eric, is this the first time you've experienced this issue with WTHR since it moved from ch. 46 to ch. 13 on June 12?

Steve

I agree with the other lafayette post. If you can, switch to Direct TV. I know in my zip 47909 you can get indy/lafayette locals through direct. I also can get all major indy channels (6, 8, 13, 20, 59) and lafayette 18 without dropouts all day long. 29 is hit or miss for me without a rotor, but that will be fixed soon. I currently am located on Beck Ln. and have a roof mounted CM-4228 antenna and CM-7777 preamp with an approximately 120 foot long coax run and still get great reception.

I have thought about switching to DirecTV, but I still have a year on my contract and don't feel like paying the cancellation fees at this point, and after the promo rates DirecTV is a little more than I pay for now, so in the long run it would put me back more. I signed up for limited basic cable from comcast for $10/month for one year, so I can get NBC and all the other locals in HD on my TV, but I don't have a DVR for them. Oh well, I guess this is the downside of Dish.

As for rooftop antennas, I live in a townhome and the landlord won't allow me to mount anything on the roof as I am a renter. I currently have my antenna on a 10ft pole, and that is as close to the roof as I will ever get.

Eric, is this the first time you've experienced this issue with WTHR since it moved from ch. 46 to ch. 13 on June 12?

Yes it is, Steve. In fact, I have not had a "bad" recording on ANY channel since I purchased my new antenna a couple of months ago. Not even with 4.1, and if you recall I had a heckuva time trying to get that station with the old antenna -- it's been 100% perfect with the new one.

When I realized the NBC recordings were all bad (around 9:40), I checked every other station I get OTA... and every other station was perfect. 13.1 was still "bad" as of about 3am, when I did another test recording of I think the news or something.

FWIW, 13.1 seems to be perfectly fine right now.

Thx!
--Eric

The FCC needs to allow the high powered VHF stations more wattage!! WRTV outperforms WTHR
hands down here in N.E.Indiana.

Personally, I tend to agree and disagree to your comment regarding more power for VHF stations. Members of a DXing group (I'm one of the members) have been discussing the VHF vs. UHF DTV reception issue. A number of factors have been highlighted, both pro and con for VHF and UHF.

WLS, Chicago, on ch. 7, has been a major issue station. Because its antenna is so high on the Sears Tower (or whatever that building's name is these days....wasn't it recently renamed??) that it is required to lower its ERP. About two weeks ago, the station got FCC approval to virtually double its ERP. Now some viewers in the Chicago area who received the station with the lower ERP are now complaining that they cannot receive it! Most likely, those are viewers within the suburban area of Chicago, where the signal is still strong enough to create multipath issues. It seems to be a tricky issue between having enough power to consistently receive the station but yet not too much signal in the metro area to cause so many multipath issues for the receiver to deal with.

Apparently, the same issue has convinced Cincinnati's ABC affiliate, WCPO, on RF channel 10 (9.1), to file for a change from ch. 10 to ch. 22 (1000 kW ND @ 1000 ft.) even after it very recently spent a lot of money installing a new top-mounted digital antenna (like locals WXIN/WTTK) and kicked in a modest ERP increase. Now the station wants to spend more money to apparently help those OTA viewers still complaining of reception issues. IMHO, some of these issues are on the end of the VHF band, but yet some of them are on the end of the viewer trying to use an indoor or outdoor antenna designed for UHF only.

Per your reception report on the difference between WRTV and WTHR, some of that could be analized over and over. At 100+ miles from the Cincinnati TV towers, I USUALLY get stronger signals from the UHF DTVs but not always. Sometimes the two current VHF stations (WCPO and WKRC) are right up there with the signals from the full power UHFs. Another BIG factor when comparing reception issues is factoring in how much co-channel interference you are receiving from other stations on the same channel. When I see that WCPO, Cincinnati is in strong while WKRC, Cincinnati is rather weak and/or not decoding, it's most likely due to another station's interference. Most of the time when I see this scenario, if I rotate the antenna toward Fort Wayne, virtually everytime WINM, Angola, on the same channel as WKRC (RF ch. 12), will be in with a very strong signal. I see this issue a lot when tropo conditions kick up a number of stations into this area. DTV receivers need a clean, noise-free, interference-free signal to decode a stable, non-pixelating picture.

Recently one morning when tropo conditions had area signals blasting into this area, I got zero signal on certain channels where I usually would receive at least one station (decoded). One example is RF channel 41. With WXYZ, Detroit, WHIO, Dayton, and WICD, Champaign all blasting in here, my receiver could barely indicate any signal from any of these stations. As a result, the signal meter read "no signal" even with the very directional stacked yagi antennas I use. I knew the signals were there, but the receiver indicated they weren't. The various signals were more or less being cancelled by each other.

With very little distant tropo this morning, it was easy to decode even very weak signals, like WXYZ, Detroit @ 230 miles (pic attached), because there was no co-channel interference from the likes of WHIO or WICD.

This new thing called DTV will get better with time and new technology. I bought my first OTA DTV receiver in 2001 (RCA DTC100). It was good for the time, but the latest receivers with the sixth generation chip and other new technology, especially relating to multipath, are WWWWAAAAAYYYY better than that DTC100.

Sorry I got so windy...................

Steve

Thanks to info from Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV/WTTK, WXIN began transmitting from the new digital antenna Thursday afternoon. He reports that WTTK should begin transmitting from the WXIN tower site Tuesday or Wednesday, if all goes well with the final set up of the transmitter.

Steve

Thanks to info from Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV/WTTK, WXIN began transmitting from the new digital antenna Thursday afternoon. He reports that WTTK should begin transmitting from the WXIN tower site Tuesday or Wednesday, if all goes well with the final set up of the transmitter.

Steve

Sweetness, Ive been waiting for WTTK to move. I can't get WTTV here in Downtown at all.

WLS, Chicago, on ch. 7, has been a major issue station. Because its antenna is so high on the Sears Tower (or whatever that building's name is these days....wasn't it recently renamed??) that it is required to lower its ERP. About two weeks ago, the station got FCC approval to virtually double its ERP. Now some viewers in the Chicago area who received the station with the lower ERP are now complaining that they cannot receive it! Most likely, those are viewers within the suburban area of Chicago, where the signal is still strong enough to create multipath issues. It seems to be a tricky issue between having enough power to consistently receive the station but yet not too much signal in the metro area to cause so many multipath issues for the receiver to deal with.
I agree with your diagnosis. (BTW: It is now the Willis Tower, but no one in Chicago is likely to call it that for years so why should we?)

Channel 16 vs Channel 22 in South Bend: Channel 16 is lower with a higher ERP. Channel 22 is higher with a low ERP. Channel 16 has a CP to raise their antenna - still lower than channel 22's - and have triple channel 22's ERP.

At this point Channel 22 seems to be doing better with a high antenna and less ERP. Channel 16 is ruined by multipath. I expect that when they do boost their power they will (like WLS) increase the area close to their tower that has issues.

BTW: I'm 10-15 miles away and get 22 better than 16 because of the multipath problems. I expect that once channel 16 does their "upgrade" I will be watching via satellite to get a usable picture ... and many others will use cable/satellite reception to get this local station.

I was near the Indy antenna farm earlier this morning so I took a quick pic of the new WXIN/WTTK antenna. Cloudy and very overcast when I snapped this pic. The old side-mount digital antenna for WXIN can be seen sticking out from the left side of the tower near the top.

If all goes well, WTTK-29 (29.1) should begin transmitting from this top-mount antenna today or tomorrow.

Steve

What was the reasoning for the side mount? Just can't put two on top, or does it have something to do with footprint? WLFI has the same arrangement. I don't know if they intend to get rid of the side mount sometime, but they obviously don't need two since bye-bye analog...

What was the reasoning for the side mount? Just can't put two on top, or does it have something to do with footprint? WLFI has the same arrangement. I don't know if they intend to get rid of the side mount sometime, but they obviously don't need two since bye-bye analog...

When WXIN-DT signed on in late 1998, the only option was to install a side-mount antenna for ch. 45 because the top-mount antenna was cut and designed for ch. 59. Just like a receive antenna, a transmit antenna is designed for a certain frequency (channel) or frequencies. The new top-mount antenna on the WXIN tower was specially designed to accomodate channels 29 and 45. From what I've read, WTWO and WFXW, Terre Haute, are on the same tower (WTWO) and using a specially designed combo antenna for channels 36 and 39.

Most of the other area stations used side-mount antennas for DTV for the same reason as WXIN and your nearby WLFI. WRTV was one of the few exceptions, as far as I'm aware. Back when DTV was just getting started, WRTV removed the old ch. 6 antenna from the top of the tower and installed a new top-mount antenna for WRTV-DT 25 and installed a different antenna for analog ch. 6 that wrapped around the top portion of the tower. Now that full power analog TV is gone, WRTV is already set with the best setup for radiating the signal 360 degrees. IIRC, when WISH moved its tower location from Post Rd. on the east side of town to the current location on the NW side of town, engineers planned ahead for DTV and had it installed at the time the tower was built in late 1994 into early 1995.

As for WTHR, WTHR-DT 46 was using a side-mount antenna near the top of the tower on the south side. When WTHR-DT switched to ch. 13 on 6/12, WTHR-DT simply started using the former top-mount analog antenna for the digital transmission.

BTW, as of 6:30 p.m., WTTK's signal is still coming from the Windfall tower.

Steve

Is WRTV off the air or something? Im not getting any signal in downtown.

Never mind, from there twitter
"Dancing fans, we're very sorry, it appears we've had a power failure. We're working to get our signal back online."

It's still out. That's quite an outage...

It's still out. That's quite an outage...

No kidding. Atlest they updated there twitter (twitter.com/theindychannel) but they should have also put something on there website.

At around 2:15 p.m., I noticed that WTTK 29 (29.1) is now transmitting from the new facility at the WXIN tower site in Indy. If your antenna is aimed at the WXIN tower on the NW side of Indy and you are receiving WXIN 45 (59.1), then you should be receiving WTTK, too.

I'm sure Rick and the other engineers at the station would enjoy reading your reception report.

Steve

At around 2:15 p.m., I noticed that WTTK 29 (29.1) is now transmitting from the new facility at the WXIN tower site in Indy. If your antenna is aimed at the WXIN tower on the NW side of Indy and you are receiving WXIN 45 (59.1), then you should be receiving WTTK, too.

I'm sure Rick and the other engineers at the station would enjoy reading your reception report.

Steve
BANGING in at 99 on Dish Network receiver. 11miles east of tower, attic antenna.

WTTK 29.1 is coming in loud-and-clear over here on the NW side (near Eagle Creek Park).

I also picked up 19.1 in my re-scan this afternoon... however, it's unwatchable. First time I've seen this one in a scan.

--Eric

WTTK 29.1 is coming in loud-and-clear downtown with west facing windows in a high-rise.

I am receiving WTTK 29.1 at 100% on the west side of Brownsburg with a Channel Master CM-7000 and rabbit ears.

WTTK blasting in here 5 mi South of Lafayette on a Dish 722 receiver, signal level 97. WXIN is at 96. My OTA antenna is a Winegard HD7698P on a rooftop tripod at approximately 25 feet above ground level. For comparison, WTHR is 100, WISH is 100, WRTV is 95, WNDY is 76, WFYI is 77, and WHMB is 75. Great to see WTTK up and running at the new location. Thanks to all involved!!

I'm getting a great signal "Good" and picture in SE Hamilton county with just a small RCA 1500 non-amplified indoor antenna. Good job WTTV/WTTK Engineers and lets not forget the tower crew too!

Alex

I am getting a 98 for WTTK-DT and I am on the east edge of Greenfield less than a mile north of U.S. 40 in a two story house with a medium size amplified antenna in the attic. 8 and 13 both get 100 signal reads. 6 gets a 94, 20 is 88 and 4 goes back and forth between 79 and 81.
Is Muncie's 49 still at less than full power? I have been getting a reading of 64 with occasional drop outs.

Great signal 2 mi North of Anderson Channel Master fringe antenna on a 25 ft tower.
87% on a Myhd Tuner card - 100% 29.6db on a Fusion card - 90% 28db on a TiVo S3.

Great job People!

Coming in strong between Plainfield and Avon on SR 267 in Hendricks county. After watching the show with the tower crew 2000' in the air, mucho kudos to them and the WTTV/WXIN crew. Rooftop Radio shack antenna with a pre-amp wired to 4 rooms.

WTTK is now hitting me with 86 signal strength (comparable to WRTV, WTHR, WXIN, WFYI), UP from around a 68 - which was off the side of my antenna - from my location within the shadow of the WLFI tower in Clinton County! Signal strength referenced is on my Dish 722. I have not tried yet directly to the set.

I am getting a 98 for WTTK-DT and I am on the east edge of Greenfield less than a mile north of U.S. 40 in a two story house with a medium size amplified antenna in the attic. 8 and 13 both get 100 signal reads. 6 gets a 94, 20 is 88 and 4 goes back and forth between 79 and 81.
Is Muncie's 49 still at less than full power? I have been getting a reading of 64 with occasional drop outs.

Thanks for the reception report on WTTK.

As for WIPB-DT 23 (49.1 & 49.2), Muncie, the station increased power to 250 kW back on July 16 at 3 p.m. I went back and checked the email from Bob Fairchild, the CE at WIPB.

Are you receiving WIPB off the back and side of your antenna? If you are in Greenfield and your antenna is aimed toward Indy (to the west), then your antenna would have to receive WIPB (tower near Cowan, IN... northeast of your location) off the back and side corner of the antenna. That's not the best orientation for this station, unless you have your antenna on a rotor so you can change the azimuth reading. WIPB's signal strength should be very strong at your house with 250 kW (non-directional antenna) @ around 800 ft. above average terrain.

Steve

Wow.
My signal on 29.1 is, quite literally, beyond "good."
4.1 is about on the "d" in "good."
This may be related to my antenna pointing towards the towers in Indy and being slightly off axis from Trafalgar.
I'm glad 29.1 is so strong, even though I never had a problem with 4.1 here in Bloomington.

Off-topic and condescending posts removed. Warnings issued.

Off-topic and condescending posts removed. Warnings issued.

Glad you finally showed up.

Off-topic and condescending posts removed. Warnings issued.

Off-topic is understandable, but I'm glad condescending is not welcomed.
Thanks

The antenna was originally on a rotor in the attic when the house was built in 1995, but Attic Antenna removed the rotor and laid it on the rafters facing basically northwest to maximize the digital signal strengths of the Indy stations. Getting PBS from Muncie was just a nice bonus. Today I noticed that WIPB was back up to a strength of 75 this morning and still is tonight. Thanks for the reply.

Glad you finally showed up.Well, someone had to flash the bat-signal, first. :rolleyes:

Well, someone had to flash the bat-signal, first. :rolleyes:

Well, KAB really is a DTV genius... :)

Sooo .... how's OTA reception in Indy/TH/Lafayette?

I've noticed numerous episodes of the new Ch. 13 (HD) 13-00 signal on my Dish Network system breaking up today (pixellation). Have others noticed this intermittent issue or is it isolated to my system?

I've noticed numerous episodes of the new Ch. 13 (HD) 13-00 signal on my Dish Network system breaking up today (pixellation). Have others noticed this intermittent issue or is it isolated to my system?

It's happening OTA as well. There are lots of breakups and pixellation in the Colts game. :( Something isn't quite right at WTHR.

It's happening OTA as well. There are lots of breakups and pixellation in the Colts game. :( Something isn't quite right at WTHR.

My WTHR OTA stinks here in Bloomington. At first I thought it was my problem.

It's happening OTA as well. There are lots of breakups and pixellation in the Colts game. :( Something isn't quite right at WTHR.

Bad as well on DirecTV. Definitely appears to be the source.

I've been watching the Colts game via cable (Bright House) with no interruptions. Just before 11 p.m. I switched to OTA and hooked my 60" Sony to two different outdoor antennas and I still don't see any pixelation and/or dropouts. I know I'm very close to their tower, but I'm getting a very stable signal strength reading of 98 out of 100. I'm not sure what is causing the issue, but it doesn't appear to be from WTHR.

Steve

I've been watching the Colts game via cable (Bright House) with no interruptions. Just before 11 p.m. I switched to OTA and hooked my 60" Sony to two different outdoor antennas and I still don't see any pixelation and/or dropouts. I know I'm very close to their tower, but I'm getting a very stable signal strength reading of 98 out of 100. I'm not sure what is causing the issue, but it doesn't appear to be from WTHR.

Steve

Does Bright House get its WTHR signal OTA like Dish and Direct do?

The 2nd half has been fine OTA.

Does Bright House get its WTHR signal OTA like Dish and Direct do?

The 2nd half has been fine OTA.

Good question, but I don't know the answer relating to WTHR.

Steve

Does Bright House get its WTHR signal OTA like Dish and Direct do?

The 2nd half has been fine OTA.

During the first half I was watching OTA and noticed a period of major disruption... I quickly switched over to the Dish feed (several seconds behind) and the same problems existed. I guess that suggests either an issue with WTHR and their ability to provide a clean signal or my Dish receiver-- since others have reported the same problems I'm inclined to believe there are problems with WTHR. I hope they have the expertise to get things sorted out...

During the Colts game, I was beginning to think my Tivo HDD was going bad. At least others are describing similar problems with WTHR. Although I am not positive, I believe Comcast receives WTHR OTA at the Anderson headend which feeds New Castle.

I also noticed a similar problem during SNL on Saturday night.

I've been watching the Colts game via cable (Bright House) with no interruptions. Just before 11 p.m. I switched to OTA and hooked my 60" Sony to two different outdoor antennas and I still don't see any pixelation and/or dropouts. I know I'm very close to their tower, but I'm getting a very stable signal strength reading of 98 out of 100. I'm not sure what is causing the issue, but it doesn't appear to be from WTHR.

Steve

It was WTHR. They just had it fixed by the time you watched. Response from e-mail I sent to them:

"We also saw the several brief instances of digital freeze/breakup in and toward the end of the second quarter. Did not have any indication of digital equipment problem and the equipment did not automatically switch to its backup as it does if it detects a problem. But we suspected our HD digital signal encoder, so we immediately forced a manual switch to our backup HD digital encoder, rebooted our primary HD digital encoder and went back to our primary encoder. We’ve not had any further problem since then so your reception should be 100% fine now and since right at the end of the 2nd quarter."

I noticed break-up earlier in the day during Meet The Press.

Rick Poling at WTTK passes along a big thanks to those of you who posted reception reports relating to the new WTTK antenna/tower site and big power boost. He and the other engineers at the station are interested in knowing how well and how far the signal is being received, so feel free to keep the reports coming.

Rick also added, "and the tower crew did perform quite a feat lifting that 11,200 lb. antenna." That is one heavy antenna!

Steve

Rick Poling at WTTK passes along a big thanks to those of you who posted reception reports relating to the new WTTK antenna/tower site and big power boost. He and the other engineers at the station are interested in knowing how well and how far the signal is being received, so feel free to keep the reports coming.

Rick also added, "and the tower crew did perform quite a feat lifting that 11,200 lb. antenna." That is one heavy antenna!

Steve

From Downtown in a Highrise Im now getting 80 with an RCA Antenna and Digital Stream Converter Box after moving the antenna. Im loving the move considering I use to spend a ridiculous amount of time adjusting in every which way trying to get wttv.

Did anyone else notice any issues with "Cops" from Fox OTA last night at 8:00pm and 8:30pm? My signal was fine, the recordings are clean -- but the video was "choppy". At first I thought something was wrong with my Myth box, but playing back the recordings on multiple other PCs in the house show the exact same thing -- so I'd have to guess it was an issue with the source. If I had to guess I'd say Fox 59 was having encoder issues or some sort. Just wondered if anyone else saw it.

Ciao!
--Eric

Is this the same problem I saw during the Colts game? Several freeze ups for a few seconds.

Did anyone else notice any issues with "Cops" from Fox OTA last night at 8:00pm and 8:30pm? My signal was fine, the recordings are clean -- but the video was "choppy". At first I thought something was wrong with my Myth box, but playing back the recordings on multiple other PCs in the house show the exact same thing -- so I'd have to guess it was an issue with the source. If I had to guess I'd say Fox 59 was having encoder issues or some sort. Just wondered if anyone else saw it.

Ciao!
--Eric
I noticed a little bit of freezing (about 2-3 seconds) during the Colts game.

Does anyone know the list of Clear QAM channels on Brighthouse in Carmel? These are the one's that I know of:


WTTV (CW) - 704
WRTV (ABC) - 706
WISH (CBS) - 708
WFYI (PBS) - 710
WXIN (FOX) - 711
WTHR (NBC) - 713

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2010001258_brier05.html?syndication=rss

Ceton developed a cable tuner and decoder that plugs into a PC, giving it the ability to play and record multiple high-definition, encrypted cable channels.

Ceton's tuners work with CableCard devices that cable companies offer customers in lieu of cable boxes.

The tuners have powerful, embedded processors that decrypt cable signals and convert them into a secure format used by Windows PCs — up to six channels at once, in real-time.

Ceton is handling the delivery between cable networks and the Media Center feature in premium versions of Windows.

Does anyone know the list of Clear QAM channels on Brighthouse in Carmel? These are the one's that I know of:


WTTV (CW) - 704
WRTV (ABC) - 706
WISH (CBS) - 708
WFYI (PBS) - 710
WXIN (FOX) - 711
WTHR (NBC) - 713


On my Sharp HDTV, I also receive WNDY (MyNet) - 13.1; WHMB (LeSea) - 13.2; WFYI (PBS - Vme) - 20.2. And for some strange reason, WRTV is now indicating 706.1, plus the PSIP indicates "WRTV-Hi" instead of "WRTV-HD." Maybe the receiver in my HDTV is misreading the info.....Not sure.

On my Sony, these channel numbers are all over the place but it does find the stations. I'm on the BHN Carmel service.

Steve

Insufficient signal this morning (11 AM) on both 13.1 and 23.1. Yet WISH is coming in strong. Any ideas as to why this problem? Tropo?

Update: same situation at 2:30 PM.

Insufficient signal this morning (11 AM) on both 13.1 and 23.1. Yet WISH is coming in strong. Any ideas as to why this problem? Tropo?

Update: same situation at 2:30 PM.
I had one of my many insomniac nights and was up around 3am this morning and 13.1, .2 & .3 were completely off the air "No signal" when I was cruising the channels. Everything is fine now. Perhaps maintenance?? I can't recall if WNDY had issues or not.

Alex

I had one of my many insomniac nights and was up around 3am this morning and 13.1, .2 & .3 were completely off the air "No signal" when I was cruising the channels. Everything is fine now. Perhaps maintenance?? I can't recall if WNDY had issues or not.

Alex

Yes, I noticed the same about WTHR, Alex. I woke up around 4:30 a.m. and noticed WTHR was off the air (OTA). Most likely some overnight/early morning maintenance. I noticed early Saturday morning that WTTK was off the air, too.

T Heller, have you checked the aim of your antenna? I remember that shortly after the June transition you found that your antenna had moved a few degrees. Otherwise, I'm not sure what could be causing your lack of signal. There was a little tropo scatter/enhancement this morning, but nothing very strong. I did have WDRB-DT 49 (41.1), Louisville in part of the morning.

I didn't check WNDY this morning, so I have no idea about that one.

Steve

I just checked, WTHR is now showing at 2 bars (had been zero). Glad to see it's back, but it drops to 1 bar and 'slow-mo' freeze frame. Sounds like they've been doing some adjustments, which I'll take as a good sign. I'll be patient.

WNDY came back, but with substantial freezing about an hour ago.

Yes, Steve, I *had* very slightly re-aimed my antenna after the transition date, in the hope of finding an acceptable balance particularly between WISH (previous weakest) and WTHR (the new weakest). Given my continued but intermittent problems, I'm not sure I really succeeded. If not, I can make slight adjustment back to previous.

I have noticed that WIIH (17.1) has been off the air. Any reason??

I have noticed that WIIH (17.1) has been off the air. Any reason??

I first noticed Friday morning that WIIH was transmitting a signal but there was no audio or video, and no PSIP indicating "17-1 LWS." It's currently indicating "8-3."

Tom, what's going on?

Steve

Steve,

I was about to resign myself to 'watching' the Colts game on WTHR via aggravating slow-mo freeze frames (and who knows what audio consistency), but when I switched from 60 Minutes to NBC a few minutes ago (8PM), I was greeted with a nice clean signal registering a solid 4 bars (with a dip to 3 once in a long while.) I wonder if WTHR's work was related to ensuring good signal in time for this Sunday Night Football game.

(Edit) Forgot to add that WNDY is blasting in at 8-10 bars at 9:00 PM

Steve,

I was about to resign myself to 'watching' the Colts game on WTHR via aggravating slow-mo freeze frames (and who knows what audio consistency), but when I switched from 60 Minutes to NBC a few minutes ago (8PM), I was greeted with a nice clean signal registering a solid 4 bars (with a dip to 3 once in a long while.) I wonder if WTHR's work was related to ensuring good signal in time for this Sunday Night Football game.

I'm glad your signal level is back up to a reasonable level. Maybe there was a maintenance issue relating to their signal level earlier today.

I rarely watch anything from NBC (except football), so during the past 15-20 minutes of SNF I've noticed how WTHR's audio levels from one source to another are up and down and all over the place. Plus, the infamous NBC motion blur/pixelation mess. Great PQ when the players and/or cameras don't move..........

Steve

Plus, the infamous NBC motion blur/pixelation mess. Great PQ when the players and/or cameras don't move..........

I'm not sure that I've learned what the 'infamous blur/pixelation mess' is. Maybe I don't perceive it because I've got a pretty small flat-screen (23").

I rarely watch anything from NBC (except football), so during the past 15-20 minutes of SNF I've noticed how WTHR's audio levels from one source to another are up and down and all over the place. Plus, the infamous NBC motion blur/pixelation mess. Great PQ when the players and/or cameras don't move


You don't watch Bruce, Chuck, and Julia in the morning? And I guess I was too involved in the game to notice the issues you describe. I was watching OTA w/ Dish 622 on a 90 inch screen from about 20 miles WSW of Wier Cook (so happy we can say that again!).

You don't watch Bruce, Chuck, and Julia in the morning? And I guess I was too involved in the game to notice the issues you describe. I was watching OTA w/ Dish 622 on a 90 inch screen from about 20 miles WSW of Wier Cook (so happy we can say that again!).

"I rarely watch anything from NBC (except football)"....I do occasionally watch local programming from WTHR.

Actually, IMO, Sunday night's football game (Colts @ Titans) ended up being one of the better HD broadcasts from NBC, and the DD 5.1 audio was really good. "Plus, the infamous NBC motion blur/pixelation mess. Great PQ when the players and/or cameras don't move".......... This used to be one of the most discussed topics during SNF over in the HDTV Programming section of AVS Forum.

BTW, WIIH-LD 8 continues to broadcast nothing. If you are looking for alternative programming, check it out. :-)

Steve

OTA viewers northeast of Indy and southwest of Fort Wayne might be affected by a channel change that's coming up tomorrow, Thursday. If you watch WISE-DT 19 (33.1), Fort Wayne (NBC), just be aware that the station will be switching from RF channel 19 to RF channel 18 on Oct. 15 at 12 noon. Studies indicated that there will be less co-channel interference from neighboring stations on channel 18 than is the case with channel 19.

Steve

BTW, WIIH-LD 8 continues to broadcast nothing. If you are looking for alternative programming, check it out. :-)
Steve

Are they still on 17.1, or have they moved?

Are they still on 17.1, or have they moved?

WIIH-LD is on RF channel 8 and virtual channel 17.1 (PSIP) and displaying "LWS." The station is now back with its regular feed from sister station WISH-DT 8.2.

Steve

"VHF Nightmare this evening is WTHR, who wants an increase from 22 kW to 30 kW."

Thanks for the update, Trip! If approved, this should help Heller in Columbus and Nathill in Bloomington.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17378779#post17378779

Steve

"VHF Nightmare this evening is WTHR, who wants an increase from 22 kW to 30 kW."

Thanks for the update, Trip! If approved, this should help Heller in Columbus and Nathill in Bloomington.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17378779#post17378779

Steve

I'm actually doing OK with WTHR (now that I've improved my antenna and cabling a little bit). But WTHR is still by far the weakest (at least according to the meters) of all of my Indy stations.
30K is OK with me!:)
Nat

Why is WTHR so stubborn? Why don't they stop torturing their viewers and just go back to 46?

I'm actually doing OK with WTHR (now that I've improved my antenna and cabling a little bit). But WTHR is still by far the weakest (at least according to the meters) of all of my Indy stations.
30K is OK with me!:)
Nat


I'm not satisfied with WTHR, so I'm happy to hear they've apparently applied for a boost in their signal's power (Trip's link didn't connect to that app, though, so I've got to assume his post is correct.)

This past Sunday, during the day it was too weak to receive, so I figured I was likely not to be able to watch Sunday Night Football. But -lo and behold- the signal strength rose to 3 bars (of 1) as the broadcast time approached. And I was able to see the game, 'tho as halftime approached I got some brief freezes and audio clipping.

I will, however, go off-topic and comment on Steve's earlier remark about him not watching much on NBC.

I flipped on their Nightly News a few minutes ago and Maria Shriver (absolutely ghastly-looking woman) was hosting a segment, apparently a bit of a promo for a longer NBC program upcoming this week which featured a bunch of emasculated 'men' from my old haunt, Seattle, 'expressing' themselves about living now in a women's world.

I about puked! I now more fully understand and appreciate Steve's comment -- and perhaps some will understand one reason I fled that hell-hole five years ago. (Had to get that off my chest....)

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1322853&Service=DT&Form_id=301&Facility_id=70162

- Trip

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1322853&Service=DT&Form_id=301&Facility_id=70162

- Trip

The engineering report shows an STA to operate on 46. Is 46 still fired up?

WTHR Ch. 46 is still off the air.

No. Old records that were not purged.

- Trip

Channel 59-1 is attempting to show the American League Championship Series tonight.
I'm not sure what is worse, the umpires (who have reached a new height in incompetence), or the digital sound (loud, soft, surround, stereo, constantly changing).
wow.........

Signal report for the guru's at WTTK -ch 29.Since leaving the Windfall site reception here in N.E.Indiana is well less than 30 % of the time.Mediacom still carries WTTK with the headend site at North Manchester (North Central Wabash County) w/a commercial UHF parabolic.Signal loss is a common problem,I don't know if the antenna has been reaimed for Indianapolis or not?.Please if possible restore the old site with a good translator!!!!!!!!!!

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1322853&Service=DT&Form_id=301&Facility_id=70162

- Trip

Thanks Trip! Very interesting reading...

Thanks Trip! Very interesting reading...

True that. If I read the application properly, it will only take 3.75 KW of electricity to send out a signal with an effective power of 30 KW. Now that's efficiency! And it helps explain why stations are interested in making VHF work.

On the Indiana Bright House website, it says you are getting 17 new HD channels coming soon.

Has any information been released in regards to these? Please let me know as I like to keep track of the Bright House lineup.

True that. If I read the application properly, it will only take 3.75 KW of electricity to send out a signal with an effective power of 30 KW. Now that's efficiency! And it helps explain why stations are interested in making VHF work.

Good observation, Nat. (I'm not that savvy re: this dimension, but I recall talking to some radio engineers back in Seattle in the late 1990's, one of whom remarked on being amazed at how little power was required for transmitting digital signals. They were doing some field tests at the time.)

That's just a function of the antennas. UHF antennas are actually more efficient than VHF ones. In many cases, about 50 kW out of the transmitter makes that 1000 kW ERP that you see listed. For directional antennas that can be even less.

You mention 3.75 kW to make 30 kW on VHF. By comparison WUSI in Olney is using 2.27 kW TPO to make 50 kW ERP on UHF.

Digital is very power efficient though. Anecdote I know, but I am 80 miles from most of my locals and one was putting out 1.1 kW ERP in my direction, and it was just barely decoding at that level. A station at 17.9 kW at 53 miles was one of my strongest signal. (Both are now powered up.)

- Trip

That's just a function of the antennas. UHF antennas are actually more efficient than VHF ones. In many cases, about 50 kW out of the transmitter makes that 1000 kW ERP that you see listed. For directional antennas that can be even less.

You mention 3.75 kW to make 30 kW on VHF. By comparison WUSI in Olney is using 2.27 kW TPO to make 50 kW ERP on UHF.

Digital is very power efficient though. Anecdote I know, but I am 80 miles from most of my locals and one was putting out 1.1 kW ERP in my direction, and it was just barely decoding at that level. A station at 17.9 kW at 53 miles was one of my strongest signal. (Both are now powered up.)

- Trip

But cannot 'efficiency' also be thought of as distance (or area) reached per kW of power consumed?

By that measure, doesn't VHF outperform UHF? Or said another way, UHF has a shorter 'reach' than VHF? Don't higher frequencies display faster signal decay over any given distance?

Yes, but as we've seen, the reliability of those more distant signals isn't all that great.

What difference does it make if your channel 2 signal carries for 100 miles if every time an electric motor is running it's unwatchable?

- Trip

Let me try that again, my comment was irrelevant. (You can tell which points I'm used to arguing.)

With digital, I don't think the band really makes as much difference in terms of power as it used to. With a proper roof antenna for each band, I had a bunch of trouble with 2.3 kW worth of low-VHF even leaving out electrical noise but had about the same trouble with 1.1 kW worth of UHF. Power, it seems to me, is important for penetration of a digital signal and less so for distance.

It seems to me that having a roof antenna that is designed to receive all bands should get most stations regardless of power level (as long as their SNR/EVM numbers look good). An indoor antenna will still receive a low-powered UHF at a closer distance, but not a lower-powered VHF even at the same power level.

I think that argument makes more sense.

- Trip

Yes, I appreciate that signal distance/penetration, etc doesn't happen in a vacuum - and real world conditions like electric motors can and do intrude. I was only speaking in terms of 'theoretical' physics when I contrasted higher and lower frequencies.

I don't wish to make an issue of the efficiency of UHF or VHF, but instead I'm curious about the economics of the two, hence my interest in Nat's observation of the power consumption required for a given ERP.

Thanks for your replies -- and your continued monitoring of CPs and such. Your contributions are most valuable.

Okay, yes, I misinterpreted what you were getting at. Pure physics, yes, the lower frequencies propagate better.

The general difference is that a "full-powered" VHF signal can make use of a more reliable solid state transmitter rather than an IOT tube transmitter which requires periodic tube replacements (each tube is tens of thousands of dollars to replace). It's not to say you cannot use a solid state transmitter for UHF, as many lower powered stations do use them, but they're power limited. I'm not sure exactly how powerful solid state UHF transmitters can get, though I know I've heard of 2.5 kW TPO, and I imagine they go up to at least 5 kW.

As far as I know, this is where the bulk of the cost difference is. Outside of the power bills, of course.

- Trip

Trip;
Theoretical question. Channel 6-1 (digital channel 25, I think it is) has an ERP of a million watts. How much juice (a rough estimate is just fine) do you think that takes?
I don't have any idea.
I was just really surprised that WTHR can cover a lot of ground at only 3.75K watts of actual energy expended.
Nat

I don't have to guess, we have an exact number.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1318385&Service=DT&Form_id=2&Facility_id=40877

Section III, Number 2. WRTV puts 43.85 kW into their antenna system to make 1000 kW ERP.

- Trip

Trip;
Thanks so much.
It's hard for a non-engineer like me to come to grips with a 2,281% "return" on the electrons racing into the transmitter antenna.

It has a lot to do with the antenna design. Basically, instead of beaming power out in all directions, it takes any power that would be wasted by being aimed, for example, straight up in the air, or straight down toward the ground, or other directions that don't make sense, and it beams that power out toward the horizon instead. That's where the "effective rated power" number comes from.

I hope that made sense, I know there was a vicious run-on sentence in there.

- Trip

Trip;
Thanks so much.
It's hard for a non-engineer like me to come to grips with a 2,281% "return" on the electrons racing into the transmitter antenna.
It takes roughly 3db of antenna gain to double the output of the transmitter. So a 3 watt transmitter with a antenna gain of 6 db would have an erp of 12 watts.3 watts x 2 = 6 watts. 6x2= 12 watts and so forth just run the numbers. This is why A.M. broadcast stations run "true wattage " there isn't any gain to speak of in a verticle antenna.The higher in frequency you operate allows you to exercise gain antenna's to achieve the necessary power goal! 1 million watt erp stations could use a transmitter with 1 million watts of output into antenna w/ 1 db of gain but it isn't feasible and just plain NUTS!!!!!!

It has a lot to do with the antenna design.
Absolutely. Trip, let me expand on your explanation.

The benchmark antenna that designers use for measuring antenna gain is a theoretical isotropic radiator. By isotropic, we mean that the antenna radiates equally in all directions in three dimensions. The RF field around the antenna can be thought of as a sphere with the antenna at the center of the sphere. An isotropic radiator is theoretical because it doesn't exist in the real world.

As Trip points out, this kind of antenna is not all that useful because much of its energy is radiated in directions where there are no receivers, most of which can be found in the horizontal plane through the antenna. So, antenna designers develop antennas that flatten out the sphere mentioned above so as to put more RF energy where the receivers are located. Taken to extremes, the sphere becomes a flattened-out dough nut shape with the antenna in the "hole" of the dough nut in the case of an omnidirectional antenna.

So, if you compare the RF energy in the horizontal plane of an omnidirectional gain antenna to our isotropic radiator, you come up with a gain figure in decibels. There are mathematical models, and computer programs based on those models, that will let you design your antenna on paper (or in the computer) and the model will calculate the gain at various points around the antenna.

Now, let's use this gain to calculate effective radiated power (ERP).

The formula for calculating power gain ratio (L) is:

L (in dB) = log base 10 x (P1 (watts) / P0 (watts))

So, if you know P0 (the power you start with) and you know the power gain ratio (L) of your system in decibels, the formula to get P1 (the ERP) is:

P1 = 10^(L/10) x P0

Let's say you start with a 100 watt transmitter. You run that transmitter through a feedline and eventually to an antenna (I'm simplifying a lot). You caculate the decibel losses in the feedline and subtract that from the decibel gain in the antenna. For the sake of discussion, say that you have a system gain of 20dB. Using the formula above, your 100 watt transmitter results in 10,000 watts of ERP.

All it takes is flattening out the dough nut.

I appreciate all of you taking the time to help me (and likely several others) understand the weird science of transmitting.
I think I understand the concepts, but I'm still amazed at the efficiency of the designs. Not many things in life can be designed, erected, and operated on such a consistent basis at such a high efficiency.
Another way to look at it for folks like me might be that the transmitter is actually operating at 3.75KW, but would have to operate at 30KW if nothing was done to send the signal where it needs to go.
I wonder if the industry should explain this whole concept a little better, because I'm sure the carbon police might not understand a "million watt station" is actually using so much less energy. I certainly didn't.
Thanks again to all.

I appreciate all of you taking the time to help me (and likely several others) understand the weird science of transmitting.
...
I wonder if the industry should explain this whole concept a little better, because I'm sure the carbon police might not understand a "million watt station" is actually using so much less energy. I certainly didn't.
Thanks again to all.

Thanks from moi, too. (I knew if I hung around here long enough, I'd learn something useful! ;-)

Absolutely. Trip, let me expand on your explanation.

The benchmark antenna that designers use for measuring antenna gain is a theoretical isotropic radiator. By isotropic, we mean that the antenna radiates equally in all directions in three dimensions. The RF field around the antenna can be thought of as a sphere with the antenna at the center of the sphere. An isotropic radiator is theoretical because it doesn't exist in the real world.

As Trip points out, this kind of antenna is not all that useful because much of its energy is radiated in directions where there are no receivers, most of which can be found in the horizontal plane through the antenna. So, antenna designers develop antennas that flatten out the sphere mentioned above so as to put more RF energy where the receivers are located. Taken to extremes, the sphere becomes a flattened-out dough nut shape with the antenna in the "hole" of the dough nut in the case of an omnidirectional antenna.

So, if you compare the RF energy in the horizontal plane of an omnidirectional gain antenna to our isotropic radiator, you come up with a gain figure in decibels. There are mathematical models, and computer programs based on those models, that will let you design your antenna on paper (or in the computer) and the model will calculate the gain at various points around the antenna.

Now, let's use this gain to calculate effective radiated power (ERP).

The formula for calculating power gain ratio (L) is:

L (in dB) = log base 10 x (P1 (watts) / P0 (watts))

So, if you know P0 (the power you start with) and you know the power gain ratio (L) of your system in decibels, the formula to get P1 (the ERP) is:

P1 = 10^(L/10) x P0

Let's say you start with a 100 watt transmitter. You run that transmitter through a feedline and eventually to an antenna (I'm simplifying a lot). You caculate the decibel losses in the feedline and subtract that from the decibel gain in the antenna. For the sake of discussion, say that you have a system gain of 20dB. Using the formula above, your 100 watt transmitter results in 10,000 watts of ERP.

All it takes is flattening out the dough nut.
Great Explanation!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not really having to do with TV reception, but does anyone here know of a AV dealer in the Indy area that sells Panasonic projectors?

"VHF Nightmare this evening is WTHR, who wants an increase from 22 kW to 30 kW."

Thanks for the update, Trip! If approved, this should help Heller in Columbus and Nathill in Bloomington.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17378779#post17378779

Steve

I wouldn't do backflips over this just yet.

WSYX has 59-kw on VHF-13 and, using rabbit ears in a stucco house 11 miles from the tower (and on high ground) doesn't yield a stable signal. Someone walking into the other side of the family room will cause the picture to lock -- just like the old days with analog UHF multipath.

VHF Sucks.

WTHR has now filed an STA to operate at the 30 kW they've already requested permanently. In the filing, WTHR notes that it plans to file to operate at 65 kW under experimental authority in the near future.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1338687&Service=DS&Form_id=911&Facility_id=70162

- Trip

WTHR has now filed an STA to operate at the 30 kW they've already requested permanently. In the filing, WTHR notes that it plans to file to operate at 65 kW under experimental authority in the near future.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1338687&Service=DS&Form_id=911&Facility_id=70162

- Trip

I missed that part, however I think their engineer needs to get in the car and drive on over to corporate in Columbus to play around with reception while WSYX is still VHF. I don't think he's going to be too thrilled with it, even at 65-kw.

I realize the mesh embedded in the stucco is part of the problem, but stucco homes aren't exactly rare around here. And that doesn't even consider the problems people in apartments have.

That said, works great with an outdoor antenna! Indoor antennas are a big problem, as you know.

WXIN's "Fox 59 News" went HD yesterday. And for their first day, it appeared (from what I saw) that things were going very smoothly. Now five local stations present local newscasts in HD (WTHR, WISH, WRTV, WNDY and WXIN).

Steve

Now five local stations present local newscasts in HD (WTHR, WISH, WRTV, WNDY and WXIN).

So we should be seeing better news soon? :D

So we should be seeing better news soon? :D

Hilarious!! It's sad what's considered news anymore.

Yes, local news has turned into something really sad and awful. I am so tired of the "If it bleeds, it leads" philosophy of all of the local news operations. I am also very tired of all of the "teases" telling us that there is more to the story and we can hear it later in the next half hour after a tidal wave of more commercials. I use a DVR to see the news and after the first tease I usually just shut the bleeping TV off.

Yes, local news has turned into something really sad and awful. I am so tired of the "If it bleeds, it leads" philosophy of all of the local news operations. I am also very tired of all of the "teases" telling us that there is more to the story and we can hear it later in the next half hour after a tidal wave of more commercials. I use a DVR to see the news and after the first tease I usually just shut the bleeping TV off.

Not only if it "bleeds" but if it RAINS!!! It seems whenever its going to rain they make it seem like a hurricane or something we've never seen or experienced.

TTV (and TTK-29) are both THIS on their .2 sub channels. GREAT MOVE! Thanks. Who will be next to air Retro TV (RTV)? Another great channel.

TTV (and TTK-29) are both THIS on their .2 sub channels. GREAT MOVE! Thanks. Who will be next to air Retro TV (RTV)? Another great channel.

Yes, nice move. And thanks for the update, hoosierky. Pic 1.

..................................................

FWIW, some very strong tropospheric enhancement in this area this morning might have messed up some OTA reception. I noticed some out-of-market stations I normally can receive under tropo conditions were MIA due to strong co-channel interference. Stations from northern Ohio, southern Michigan and southern Wisconsin were affecting area reception. WLFI-DT-11, Lafayette, was getting blasted by WHAS-DT-11 (11), Louisville and WGVU-DT-11 (35), Grand Rapids, MI @ 209 miles.

Here's an example of some of the more distant stations I received:
WDCQ-DT-15 (19), Bad Axe, MI @ 279 miles; WFRV-DT-39 (5), Green Bay, WI @ 318 miles; WISN-DT-34 (12), Milwaukee, WI @ 238 miles. Pics attached.

Steve

Anyone having problems picking up WTHR 13 and WXIN 59 lately?

Getting WTTK with no problems at all and not one lick from WXIN.

Plus I'm getting all local channels just fine, even pulling in WNDY 23 with no problem.

Using a Antenna's Direct DB8 Multidirectional HDTV Antenna point at 29 degrees and a LG 3510A HDTV Receiver/DVD Player.

I was getting these channels just fine last month, now it's a no go.
Any idea's or suggestions?

Don

I'm in Bloomington, and from here, I'm having no problems with either 13-1 or 59-1.

Don, you didn't mention your location, but if your antenna azimuth reading is 29 degrees for Indy stations, you must be somewhere to the southwest of Indy. What's your distance from the Indy antenna farm? Are you using this UHF antenna for WTHR-DT-13, which is VHF? I know some viewers have good luck receiving VHF-hi channels with this antenna, but my own personal experiences say otherwise. I've experimented with the similar Channel Master 4228 at receiving WISH and WTHR @ around 38 miles with poor results.

Sometimes, depending on atmospheric/tropospheric conditions, simply rotating the orientation of the antenna just a few degrees can make a big difference. This area has experienced a lot of co-channel interference so far this month, which can play havoc with reception. Friday evening, DTV DXers on the south side of Indy and in Greensburg were receiving stations from as far away as Mississippi and Pensacola, FL (over 600 miles!!!) Saturday morning, from my location on the north side of Indy, I was receiving DTV stations as far away as Birmingham, AL (447 miles), Columbus, GA (531 miles) and Dothan, AL (623 miles). These distant signals can definitely interfere with local/semi-local stations if they are on the same frequency/channel.

Also, now with the leaves off the trees, this can change (help or hinder) factors like multipath. If you do have issues with multipath at your location, the design of your antenna is not the best at dealing with it. The long Yagi-style UHF antennas are better at dealing with multipath (according to the experts and from my own personal experiences).

Steve

Don, you didn't mention your location, but if your antenna azimuth reading is 29 degrees for Indy stations, you must be somewhere to the southwest of Indy. What's your distance from the Indy antenna farm? Are you using this UHF antenna for WTHR-DT-13, which is VHF? I know some viewers have good luck receiving VHF-hi channels with this antenna, but my own personal experiences say otherwise. I've experimented with the similar Channel Master 4228 at receiving WISH and WTHR @ around 38 miles with poor results.

Sometimes, depending on atmospheric/tropospheric conditions, simply rotating the orientation of the antenna just a few degrees can make a big difference. This area has experienced a lot of co-channel interference so far this month, which can play havoc with reception. Friday evening, DTV DXers on the south side of Indy and in Greensburg were receiving stations from as far away as Mississippi and Pensacola, FL (over 600 miles!!!) Saturday morning, from my location on the north side of Indy, I was receiving DTV stations as far away as Birmingham, AL (447 miles), Columbus, GA (531 miles) and Dothan, AL (623 miles). These distant signals can definitely interfere with local/semi-local stations if they are on the same frequency/channel.

Also, now with the leaves off the trees, this can change (help or hinder) factors like multipath. If you do have issues with multipath at your location, the design of your antenna is not the best at dealing with it. The long Yagi-style UHF antennas are better at dealing with multipath (according to the experts and from my own personal experiences).

Steve

I live just to the south of Plainfield (south of 70), and I have had this antenna up for just over a year with no problems at all until 3 or 4 weeks ago.

I'm 21.4 miles from WTHR, and 18.5 from WXIN and I believe I stated earlier that my heading was 29 degrees, it is in fact 33(dug up my paperwork).
As a note, I am pulling in WISH with perfect results and also WTTK, which I believe is now on the same tower as WXIN. Go figure, get WTTK fine but not WXIN.

I will be going back out tomorrow to make sure that it has not skewered off of it's proper heading.

This area has experienced a lot of co-channel interference so far this month, which can play havoc with reception. Friday evening, DTV DXers on the south side of Indy and in Greensburg were receiving stations from as far away as Mississippi and Pensacola, FL (over 600 miles!!!)


Can't you guys jam those signals? ;)

Do you post your DX readings? That way, I might be able to better interpret when I have troubles. Sometimes I'm baffled why there would be any difficulty receiving some channels. Like Saturday, I encountered big picture challenges on WISH, yet the weather seemed perfect. (I guess tropo effects are not visible to the naked eye.)