WXIN's request to increase its ERP (effective radiated power) from 700 kW to 1000 kW was very recently approved. WXIN's RF supervisor, Rick Poling, informed me today that the station will be cranking up the power sometime next month (Sept.). This might help some of the OTA viewers near Terre Haute looking for a Fox affiliate beginning Sept. 1 when WFXW, Terre Haute, is scheduled to switch its network affiliation from Fox to ABC.

Steve

WXIN's request to increase its ERP (effective radiated power) from 700 kW to 1000 kW was very recently approved. WXIN's RF supervisor, Rick Poling, informed me today that the station will be cranking up the power sometime next month (Sept.). This might help some of the OTA viewers near Terre Haute looking for a Fox affiliate beginning Sept. 1 when WFXW, Terre Haute, is scheduled to switch its network affiliation from Fox to ABC.

Steve

Just finished reading this on Broadcasting and Cable.
"Nexstar has been involved in a major spat with Fox over affiliation agreements, resulting in multiple Nexstar owned or managed Fox affiliates going independent or, in the case of WFXW, changing affiliations. Fox has not announced which station will air its programming in Terre Haute."
I think I read somewhere else there is a possibility that FOX may use a portion of another Terre Haute station's spectrum to broadcast their programs. That would be very interesting, although I'm sure some HD fanatics (myself included) might not like the picture quality results.
Is such a scenario even possible from a regulatory point of view?

Just finished reading this on Broadcasting and Cable.
"Nexstar has been involved in a major spat with Fox over affiliation agreements, resulting in multiple Nexstar owned or managed Fox affiliates going independent or, in the case of WFXW, changing affiliations. Fox has not announced which station will air its programming in Terre Haute."
I think I read somewhere else there is a possibility that FOX may use a portion of another Terre Haute station's spectrum to broadcast their programs. That would be very interesting, although I'm sure some HD fanatics (myself included) might not like the picture quality results.
Is such a scenario even possible from a regulatory point of view?

I just noticed that Nexstar has a duopoly in the Terre Haute market (I'd like to know how that slipped thru the FCC). WTWO is owned by Nexstar, while WFXW (soon to be WAWV) is Nexstar via Mission Broadcasting. I thought WTWO would have been a choice. Since it's Nexstar, it won't happen. I wonder if LIN Broadcasting would be willing to give up The Cool TV for a Fox affiliation on WTHI. I don't see WTHI dropping CBS for Fox on the main channel. If WTHI were to drop The Cool TV, expect Fox to be SD, & not what Granite did with WISE-TV in Fort Wayne, which was have dual HD on WISE TV (NBC being 1080i on 33.1 & Fox being 720p on 33.2). WYIN in Gary & WLS-TV in Chicago both run dual 720p HD on their stations, along with WLS-TV having 1 SD subchannel & WYIN having 2 widescreen SD subchannels, & looking like crap. If WTHI doesn't pick up the Fox affiliation, then Terre Haute will have to rely on out of market Fox stations on cable & satellite (portions of the market might get WXIN from Indianapolis, WEVV Evansville, or WCCU Urbana, IL OTA).

Dave;
Thanks for the thorough discussion on various Terre Haute broadcasting possibilities. This could get very interesting. SD Fox football and world series would be better than no football or world series at all.
Love this forum!
Nat

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2011/08/25/53493/fox-lines-up-new-terre-haute-affiliate

- Trip

New Terre Haute FOX affiliate announced.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2011/08/25/53493/fox-lines-up-new-terre-haute-affiliate

Edit: Didn't notice Trip scooped me on this announcement.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2011/08/25/53493/fox-lines-up-new-terre-haute-affiliate

- Trip

Well, it certainly didn't take very long to get my question regarding the possibility of a FOX subchannel answered!
Thanks, Trip.

.

With WTHI picking up the Fox affiliation in Terre Haute, I expect Fox to be SD. It's better than not having a Fox station in the market. Now the FCC needs to force Nexstar to divest a station, since there are only 5 stations licensed to the market with only 3 stations allocated for commercial use. Granite Broadcasting & Malara in Fort Wayne is another one with a duopoly, & worse, they have 3 of the big 4 networks (they don't have CBS) under their belt, along with both My (on the same subchannel as Fox) & CW. As for the non-commercial allocations in the Terre Haute market; why didn't the FCC allocate one of those closer to Terre Haute? Both of them are in the southern part of the market. People in & near Terre Haute (also northern part of the market)are lucky if they can pick up WFYI Indianapolis or WTIU Bloomington OTA. PBS in that market is otherwise only available on cable & satellite .

With WTHI picking up the Fox affiliation in Terre Haute, I expect Fox to be SD.

Well it may actually NOT be in SD & not necessarily for ALL viewers:
- it might actually be provided in HD for cable &/or DISH viewers, via a direct feed; this happens on some stations in many (smaller) markets
- WTHI may very well run BOTH in 720p HD; of course, they would have to covert the 1080i CBS network feed, but at least both would be in HD. I assume if this would happen, they would end up dumping their 3rd sub.

Guess you'll find out when they light it up...

Now the FCC needs to force Nexstar to divest a station, since there are only 5 stations licensed to the market with only 3 stations allocated for commercial use.

It's JUST as bad up in Peoria:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHOI_(TV)

This left the five full-power commercial stations in the market operated by two entities.

As for the non-commercial allocations in the Terre Haute market; why didn't the FCC allocate one of those closer to Terre Haute? Both of them are in the southern part of the market. People in & near Terre Haute (also northern part of the market)are lucky if they can pick up WFYI Indianapolis or WTIU Bloomington OTA. PBS in that market is otherwise only available on cable & satellite .

SAME problem in Rockford, IL; closest PBS's are in Madison, WI or Chicago

Well it may actually NOT be in SD & not necessarily for ALL viewers:
- it might actually be provided in HD for cable &/or DISH viewers, via a direct feed; this happens on some stations in many (smaller) markets
- WTHI may very well run BOTH in 720p HD; of course, they would have to covert the 1080i CBS network feed, but at least both would be in HD. I assume if this would happen, they would end up dumping their 3rd sub.

Guess you'll find out when they light it up...

I was only referring to OTA & not cable or satellite. I was reading on another messageboard that LIN Broadcasting might put a low power station on the air to have Fox in HD for the immediate Terre Haute area. With LIN having a contract to carry The Cool TV, I don't know how long that lasts, but they might have to wait before that can be eliminated. I however can tell you that if LIN were to run dual HD, it won't look good at all. As I mentioned, WLS-TV in Chicago & WYIN Gary/Merrillville both run dual 720p HD, & they look like crap (WLS-TV looking like crap on 7.2 while WYIN looks like crap overall even on their subchannels). I don't know how WISE-TV in Fort Wayne is doing with their dual HD with having NBC in 1080i & Fox in 720p. It's rare for any CBS affiliate station to be in 720p, but there are a few that are.



It's JUST as bad up in Peoria:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHOI_(TV)

This left the five full-power commercial stations in the market operated by two entities.

I don't know the FCC handles LMA's, but that's just as bad. The Granite/Malara ownership is a problem in Fort Wayne with WISE-TV (Granite) & WPTA (Malara). Worse yet for Fort Wayne, they have control over NBC, ABC, & Fox, plus both small netlets CW & MNT.



SAME problem in Rockford, IL; closest PBS's are in Madison, WI or Chicago

This is true now, but not before the DTV transition. There was a channel 65 allocated to Freeport, but nobody in the Rockford market wanted to start up their own PBS station. So now, the non-commercial allocation was deleted. Dekalb was also allocated channel 33 for non-commercial use. Supposedly, it was created in hopes that Northern Illinois University Dekalb would create their own PBS station. Had that gone on the air, it would have covered the western suburbs of Chicago & covered part of the Rockford Market (including the city of Rockford). Even Kankakee, IL was allocated a non-commercial channel, 54. That also never went on the air. If it went on the air, it probably would have served the northern part of the Champaign/Urbana market more than south Chicagoland, primarily because WYIN went on the air in 1987 on 56 for the first time (56 was the original commercial allocation for Gary, while 50 was the original non-commercial allocation when it was WCAE Gary). In the analog days, channels such as 54 & 56 had to be so many miles apart to prevent interference (like 60 & 62 in Chicagoland, with 60 in Chicago & 62 in Tinley Park transmitter wise).

I was reading on another messageboard that LIN Broadcasting might put a low power station on the air to have Fox in HD for the immediate Terre Haute area.

Yep, the same thing f/FOX was done in Evansville on WEVV-44, with HD LP W47EE-D.

I don't know how WISE-TV in Fort Wayne is doing with their dual HD with having NBC in 1080i & Fox in 720p. It's rare for any CBS affiliate station to be in 720p, but there are a few that are.

Yea, I can't imagine squeezing a 1080i AND a 720p on 1 channel. At least two 720p's would be a little more realistic; KHQA-7 in Quincy is doing CBS/ABC both in 720p, but I have NOT seen the results.

This is true now, but not before the DTV transition.

Well I'm not sure what difference that makes; bottom line, Rockford has never had a live, working "local" PBS affiliate, even in analog.
Viewers have always had to go to Madison, Chicago or Quad Cities for a nearby PBS.

But you know what I find even MORE bizarre about Rockford - while they do NOT have a "local" PBS, they DO have an analog AND digital translators for WCIU-26! :eek:

Hey folks. Hope everyone is well. I haven't posted on here in quite a while but I've been seeing a lot of activity recently and it brought in back onto the board. Hi!

I thought I'd give a quick write-up of my experience with the 'HDHomeRun Dual' network tuner. I bought one on Amazon the other night and it arrived this afternoon.

For those who don't know, the HDHomeRun is an external TV tuner that connects into your network, instead of having to be installed inside a PC as a tuner card or whatever.

Setup is, amazingly, a breeze. The 'Dual' is a dual tuner box, but only accepts one Coax input. It has an internal splitter for the two tuners. Connect your coax, connect your network cable, and plug it into a power source. Basically, you're done at this point.

I am using mine in combination with MythTV. MythTV has long had support built in for the HDHomeRun, and the new 'Dual' is no different. Myth immediately saw it on the network, I added in both tuners, attached them to my 'source', and Myth was immediately ready to go.

Normally $129, both Amazon and NewEgg have it for $99 right now. Not bad for a dual-tuner setup. There's software for both Mac and Windows that lets you view the TV streams right on your computer, as well.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my experience. Anyone else in the area using the HDHR? At this point I'd definitely recommend it as a great way to extend your home-built DVR's with Myth or whatever other DVR software you might be using.

Ciao!
#Eric

Apparently, if you've got a Mac, Elgato's EyeTV software works with the HDHomeRun Dual, which means that Elgato's iPhone/iPad app does. Which means you can watch your HDHomeRun on an iPhone, iPod touch, or iPad over the Internet. Of course, that's about $75 extra.

Apparently, if you've got a Mac, Elgato's EyeTV software works with the HDHomeRun Dual, which means that Elgato's iPhone/iPad app does. Which means you can watch your HDHomeRun on an iPhone, iPod touch, or iPad over the Internet. Of course, that's about $75 extra.

Yeah, I had been reading about this. Elgato actually sells a "bundle" that includes the HDHomeRun Dual and their EyeTV software, for about $30 less than buying them separate. Could be a great deal for OS X / iOS users. I think there are some limitations on what can be played back on iOS devices, so, YMMV.

BTW, if anyone has any use for two Hauppauge HVR-1250 internal tuner cards, let me know. I have two that will be starting to gather dust soon.

Ciao
#Eric

Former WFXW 38, RF 39 (Fox), Terre Haute is now officially WAWV 38, RF 39, and affiliated with ABC.

Former WTHR, Indy weather guy Jude Redfield is now reporting morning weather on WDRB 41, RF 49 (Fox), Louisville.

Is 10.2 the new home of Fox in the Wabash Valley?

Is 10.2 the new home of Fox in the Wabash Valley?

38-1 appears to be High Def ABC (as per Goldrich).
10-2 appears to be FOX, although I'm no expert on their programs. Is Judge Mathis FOX?
The bad news is that the radar I really liked on 10-2 is gone.

Judge Mathis is syndicated. But 10.2 was TheCoolTV, so it looks like it's already changed over.

And the radar was on 10-3, wasn't it?

- Trip

According to this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTHI-TV the weather radar channel has been dropped (again) along with CoolTV. Yes, 10-2 should be Fox and tape-delayed programming from MyNetworkTV (first time in Terre Haute). While I'm located 84 miles from the TV towers in Farmersburg, I can receive WTWO and WAWV quite often but VERY RARELY receive (about twice a year) WTHI.

Another announcement regarding the Fox move to WTHI http://www.newscorp.com/news/bunews_472.html

I thought I recently read somewhere that the Fox feed on 10.2 would be in SD only, not HD. Is this true? Nat, maybe you could chime in with this answer after checking out some primetime viewing tonight or tomorrow. Thanks.

Steve

I thought I recently read somewhere that the Fox feed on 10.2 would be in SD only, not HD. Is this true?

According to this, it appears it's going to be in HD on TW Cable in TH:

http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/my_fox_10/myFOX10-listing-on-local-cable-and-satellite-systems

Time Warner Cable 9/1 on digital channel 11 | HD channel 711

And here:

http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/my_fox_10/time-warner-statement-on-myfox10

I suspect TWC is getting a direct (HD) feed from WTHI. ;)

Here's what I found tonight.
9:55 PM
10-1 CSI:NY 1080i
10-2 Fringe SD

10:00 PM
10-1 Blue Bloods 1080i
20-1 News 10 on Fox SD

Not sure I can say it with certainty, but it appears that 10-2 is going to be SD. Since 10-1 is 1080i, I would assume there simply won't be enough bandwidth to squeeze in another HD channel.
I wish they could squeeze in the radar somehow.

Hey guys, could I get a diagnostic reading of the antennas on the tower in this pic?

I'm not worried about the horizontal arrays, I figure they're all cellular antennas (but don't be afraid to tell me I'm dead-wrong!).....but I am particularly interested in the antennas I've drawn lines to (and conveniently numbered!).

If you want to cross-check with Radio Locator, this is the broadcast tower for two stations (commercial WXCH-FM and non-commercial WKJD-FM). It's alongside I-65 a bit south of Columbus, at N 39.186111 W 85.958056.


Thanks again for any input! You're adding immensely to my understanding.

Hope you're enjoying the weekend. It's been raining most of the day down here (Sunday).

Tom, from what I can tell from the picture plus the info I've linked, here's my take.

1. Most likely a lightning rod, lightning arrestor.
2. Circularly polarized FM antenna for WXCH-FM. The signal is sent out vertically and horizontally. http://www.progressive-concepts.com/info/item.php?id=49 The picture shows a 6-bay antenna. http://radio-locator.com/info/WXCH-FM
3. Could be a transmit or receive antenna for radio remote broadcasts, etc., ??
4. Given the info for WKJD-FM that it transmits a vertical signal http://radio-locator.com/info/WXCH-FM I would highly suspect it is the vertical transmit antenna for WKJD-FM. Also, per the info pertaining to the antenna height on the tower, it is at a lower height (249 ft.) than the top-mounted 6-bay antenna for WXCH-FM (299 ft.).

Steve

(after some thinking) Sounds perfectly reasonable. Thanks, Steve!

Yea, I can't imagine squeezing a 1080i AND a 720p on 1 channel. At least two 720p's would be a little more realistic; KHQA-7 in Quincy is doing CBS/ABC both in 720p, but I have NOT seen the results.Apparently there is also a dual 720p up in Rochester, NY (ABC/CW). So, I am guessing that wishing NBC Universal Sports on 13.3 in Indianapolis as a 720p broadcast is a pipe dream (13.1 is 1080, 13.2 is 480, and 13.3 is 480 currently). Would love to be watching the Vuelta a Espana in HD.
But you know what I find even MORE bizarre about Rockford - while they do NOT have a "local" PBS, they DO have an analog AND digital translators for WCIU-26! :eek:I used to live there long before digital TV. Sad to hear they don't have a local PBS.

Apparently there is also a dual 720p up in Rochester, NY (ABC/CW). So, I am guessing that wishing NBC Universal Sports on 13.3 in Indianapolis as a 720p broadcast is a pipe dream (13.1 is 1080, 13.2 is 480, and 13.3 is 480 currently). Would love to be watching the Vuelta a Espana in HD.


I can tell you that dual 720p HD isn't all that great. For the amount of movement that takes place on the top 4 networks, dual 720p HD wouldn't work out too well. In Chicago, WLS-TV & WYIN Gary do dual 720p HD along with WLS-TV having 1 SD subchannel, & WYIN having 2 widescreen SD subchannels. Both of those stations look horrible with dual HD. WLS-TV mainly looks horrible on 7.2, while WYIN looks horrible overall, due to a lack of bandwidth for all channels & not having the newest CODEC's. The only reason WYIN doesn't even look worse has to do with 56.2 (also in HD) & 56.4 simulcasting 56.1, while 56.3 shows PBS Kids Go shows. Even if both stations eliminated their SD subchannels, it doesn't offer enough bandwidth for both HD channels. ATSC should have gone with mpeg4 instead of mpeg2, but it's too late for that right now. So be careful about wishing for dual HD, because you might get it on a station, & might not like the results of it. I wish for me up in Gary, that WLS-TV in Chicago & WYIN Gary/Merrillville would eliminate their dual HD. WLS-TV won't because ABC requires their O&O stations to have Livewell Network in HD (which is why the name was originally Livewell HD), whle WYIN mentioned in another article that when the ATSC standard improves, that they want a 3rd 720p HD channel.

http://www.myndytv.com/

We get BounceTV on 23.3 starting next week

Hi, it's been a while since I've been here in person, tho I have been told about important things going on in the forum.

Just to let you know, WNDY-HD is in 720p as of now, so that we can accommodate both TheCoolTV and Bounce in SD with as little apparent performance hit as possible.

Bounce is progressing nicely, and should debut on schedule on Monday if everything continues to come together on our end.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY-TV

Hi, it's been a while since I've been here in person, tho I have been told about important things going on in the forum.

Just to let you know, WNDY-HD is in 720p as of now, so that we can accommodate both TheCoolTV and Bounce in SD with as little apparent performance hit as possible.

Bounce is progressing nicely, and should debut on schedule on Monday if everything continues to come together on our end.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH / WNDY-TV

Tom;
I wasn't smart enough to figure out that I had to "re-add" 23 (OTA channel 32) in order to see your channel after the upgrade.
It's fine now, and 23-3 is on my screen right now.
Thanks for the heads-up.

I was pleasantly surprised to see the Colts play last night on WTTV. How does a local station get permission to broadcast an ESPN exclusive? I'm really surprised that ESPN allows it.
I'm hoping it happens more often, because I have TVs scattered around that can receive OTA but are not hooked up to Xfinity.

I was pleasantly surprised to see the Colts play last night on WTTV. How does a local station get permission to broadcast an ESPN exclusive? I'm really surprised that ESPN allows it.
I'm hoping it happens more often, because I have TVs scattered around that can receive OTA but are not hooked up to Xfinity.

Ya, I thought that was odd also....Usually, Channel 6 WRTV carries ESPN content. Suppose it's an economy thing? Noticed they didn't broadcast the half-time ESPN coverage. Just a still image and audio that appeared to be a radio broadcast, with a bunch of commercials.

Of course, WRTV is an ABC affiliate, and ABC owns ESPN, ...which only makes WTTV having it even more unusual.

"To maximize TV ratings, as well as to protect the NFL's ability to sell TV rights collectively, games televised on ESPN or the NFL Network are simulcast on a local broadcast station in each of the primary markets of both teams......... This station does not need to have affiliate connections with a national broadcaster of NFL games."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television

Last night's game on a local TV station was nothing new. This has been the case for several years, although IIRC most of the ESPN MNF games featuring the Colts have been televised on WNDY-23. This one happened to be on WTTV-4/WTTK-29. Meanwhile, a local station in Tampa televised the game for that TV market last night.

Steve

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/29378099/detail.html

"To maximize TV ratings, as well as to protect the NFL's ability to sell TV rights collectively, games televised on ESPN or the NFL Network are simulcast on a local broadcast station in each of the primary markets of both teams......... This station does not need to have affiliate connections with a national broadcaster of NFL games."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television

Last night's game on a local TV station was nothing new. This has been the case for several years, although IIRC most of the ESPN MNF games featuring the Colts have been televised on WNDY-23. This one happened to be on WTTV-4/WTTK-29. Meanwhile, a local station in Tampa televised the game for that TV market last night.

Steve

I remembered quite a few pre-season games being broadcast, but this was the first regular season game broadcast locally (in my aging memory:).
Thanks so much for the information.

Yup! WTTV-4/WTTK-29 was the high bidder. :D

The last month or so, I have rescanned my tv 3 times. I have been getting duplicates of 8.1,8.2 and 8.3. Is anyone else getting this. I am in Hendricks County, halfway between Avon and Plainfield. Also using outside antenna.

Aka hoosierky.

The last month or so, I have rescanned my tv 3 times. I have been getting duplicates of 8.1,8.2 and 8.3. Is anyone else getting this. I am in Hendricks County, halfway between Avon and Plainfield. Also using outside antenna.

Aka hoosierky.

What's happening is that you're picking up both the main & the translator signals of WISH-TV, because both RF channels are mapped to 8.1 - 8.3. Not everybody has been able to pick up WISH-TV on RF 9, that they had to get a UHF translator (RF 17) to reach those viewers (mainly those in Indianapolis). More than likely, the first set of 8.1 - 8.3 are for the VHF & the other set are for the UHF. Pick which set has the stronger signal, & delete the other set. I'm not sure how many other stations that are on the VHF, using a UHF translator. The signal is aimed mostly SW, because they must protect WYIN up in Cedar Lake (transmission site) & their COL of Gary.

Thanks for the help. WISH is the only dupes we are getting.

Thanks again.

Same here. Thanks for the explanation.

I checked out which RF channel was first on the duplicates. Surprising (to me, anyhow), the UHF translator was first, even though it was by far the weakest. RF 9 was the latter of the two, and the strongest.

Does anyone know what the absolute bottom tier (limited basic) at BrightHouse in Indy includes these days? Does it still include QAM locals in the clear?

Thanks!!

The brighthouse website should give what's in basic. I haven't checked for a while.

Maybe it's just me but I've found the clear QAM locals to be an on again, off again thing. One day it's fine and the next nothing but blocking and pixelation which then corrects itself in a few days. Wasting a saturday setting by the phone to have it be working when they came hasn't been worth it.

Just hooked up a new set and cannot scan/tune-in WNDY. My scribblings from my HD setup says its virtual channel 23 and RF channel 32.

I don't think this has changed, but I come up empty-handed when I look for it. And tonight, I discovered WIPB (Ball State's PBS station) when I directed my antenna a bit E of N and punched in 23-1!

I don't want a third PBS station, I want WNDY, with its 'Burn Notice' series on Wednesdays. I used to get it with antenna pointed a tad W of N. Any help out there?

WNDY is on RF32. WIPB is on RF23.

- Trip

WNDY is on RF32. WIPB is on RF23.

- Trip

Are you aiming toward the Michigan Road antenna farm?

Are you aiming toward the Michigan Road antenna farm?

Not trying to. I'm in Columbus and I get best reception of the main Indy stations (they're at the Michigan Road farm, right?) at about 340 degrees, which in the past hasn't been best for WNDY. Typically, I rotate the antenna almost due N for WNDY. But it's not been showing up on the new set.

Just occurred to me to check my old set (now on same antenna behind splitter) and see if WNDY comes in. Few minutes later: Yep, it does -- WNDY shows 8-10 bars signal strength.

I guess the problem lies with the new set's tuner. Damn! I guess I now know why I can't pull in WNDY with the new set, but I'm pretty sure I could get it before I put in the splitter. I guess the new set just isn't as sensitive as the older one.

Not trying to. I'm in Columbus and I get best reception of the main Indy stations (they're at the Michigan Road farm, right?) at about 340 degrees, which in the past hasn't been best for WNDY. Typically, I rotate the antenna almost due N for WNDY. But it's not been showing up on the new set.

Just occurred to me to check my old set (now on same antenna behind splitter) and see if WNDY comes in. Few minutes later: Yep, it does -- WNDY shows 8-10 bars signal strength.

I guess the problem lies with the new set's tuner. Damn! I guess I now know why I can't pull in WNDY with the new set, but I'm pretty sure I could get it before I put in the splitter. I guess the new set just isn't as sensitive as the older one.

Are you using a pre-amp? That might be all you need. Just a little boost will work wonders.

WNDY's transmitter/tower site is NNE of Noblesville, near Cicero in Hamilton County. WNDY's city of license is Marion. From Columbus, the azimuth reading appears to be around 358-359 degrees at approximately 63 miles. WNDY's directional antenna sends most of the signal north toward Marion and south toward Indy.

http://maps.google.com/?q=http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/contourplot.kml?gmap=2%26appid=1434518%26call=WNDY-TV%26freq=0.0%26contour=41%26city=MARION%26state=IN

FYI, as of about two weeks ago, WXIN increased its ERP to 1000 kw from 700 kW.

Steve

Are you using a pre-amp? That might be all you need. Just a little boost will work wonders.

Most definitely. I've carefully followed the advice offered by the many contributors to this forum, including especially Steve Goldrich. (Indeed, I owe my entire TV viewing capability to this forum.)

I'll continue to puzzle this out, but likely will choose to bypass the new set's tuner (an LG) and install a trusty Samsung set top box to decode my antenna's output. Not only does the Samsung offer me the on-screen channel guide (no set on the market does this anymore), but the Samsung also delivers the audio (digital optical) *instantly* when I change channels. (Digital optical is the LG's sole audio out 'option' and it's not doing well hooked to a Bose system.)

For some unknown reason, the LG doesn't deliver audio instantly, resulting in a delay of 2-3+ seconds in the onset of sound everytime I change the channel, sometimes accompanied with a sharp 'crack'.

I've been trying to find a workaround to the annoying audio delay. A second Samsung DTB H260F set top box ATSC tuner (like the one I've had for years) will fill the bill. Am monitoring a few on eBay as I write.

I like the LG's picture (and its bigger than my older set), but I harbor reservations about its tuning, etc. The manufacturers have sold OTA consumers short.

WNDY's directional antenna sends most of the signal north toward Marion and south toward Indy.

Thanks, Steve. That's probably part of the answer.

I just picked up a Samsung DTB H260F on eBay. There's not a whole lot of them out there, it seems. Or people who have them are quite happy with them (as I have been with my older HD-ready set.) Should be able to pull in & decode WNDY just fine now.

FWIW..........Which outdoor TV antenna works best? This test of various antennas was conducted in Michigan.

http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/Best_TV_Antenna.html?gclid=CN--_7f2jawCFYLsKgodUnDQmQ

I have DirecTV and use an antenna as back-up for my locals in case of bad weather. Despite numerous attempts of rerunning the antenna set up on my receiver I cannot get it make 59-2 as available channel. Has anyone had luck setting this up through DirectTV?

Okay... So I went to my mother's house in Terre Haute this weekend. She has DirecTV. PLEASE tell me that WTHI is only multicasting Fox on the channel 10 stream as a temporary solution until a second broadcast station is approved!

1) CBS-HD looks completely STARVED! Aside from how bad the Colts looked against the Titans, the PQ was so compressed, it looked like a really bad Flash video stream.

2) Fox-HD was not HD at all! The NFC game on Fox was listed as being in HD on the guide, but it was actually a horrible 480i letterbox. I assume that the primetime programming is the same, although I had to head back to Fishers before it came on.

What are WTHI's long term plans? My hope is that they will soon move Fox and MyTV over to a secondary station so that CBS can get the bandwidth it deserves. Even if the Fox/MyTV station is low power to start with, that would at least allow DirecTV, Dish Network, and Time Warner Cable to provide it in full HD... Any time table on this? PLEASE don't tell me that this band-aid solution is here for the long term!

It seems like it'd have to be a medium-to-long-term plan, if just due to realities of applying for a construction permit for a new station (I haven't heard anything about one yet, but I've not been paying close attention). The FCC might grant a Special Temporary Authority in the meanwhile, but I'd imagine that it'd take the FCC anywhere from 3 to 6 months to make any decision on the matter. Especially with the impending end of low power analog, starting a new station (low power or otherwise) in the immediate future will be hard, if not impossible. Not to mention that there's no upgrade process for a low power station to become full power. (You have to start all over again and apply for a new station.)

WTHI owns the license for W24DQ-D, they just have to light it up.

- Trip

I didn't realize that. Well, if that's the case, I would hope that they'd work this out sometime before Super Bowl Sunday. Is 10.1 still 1080i?

WTHI owns the license for W24DQ-D, they just have to light it up.

- Trip

Thanks for the info, Trip. I didn't realize it was owned by WTHI, Indiana Broadcasting, LLC (LIN Television). http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181025 WTHI should be set to fire it up since they already own a transmitter and have the antenna mounted on the tower from its pre-transition setup on channel 24. This could be like the setup in Evansville with WEVV, where Fox is fed in SD as a subchannel of WEVV, and Fox is fed in HD via low-power W47EE-D. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WEVV-DT2

Steve

Okay... So I went to my mother's house in Terre Haute this weekend. She has DirecTV. PLEASE tell me that WTHI is only multicasting Fox on the channel 10 stream as a temporary solution until a second broadcast station is approved!

1) CBS-HD looks completely STARVED! Aside from how bad the Colts looked against the Titans, the PQ was so compressed, it looked like a really bad Flash video stream.

2) Fox-HD was not HD at all! The NFC game on Fox was listed as being in HD on the guide, but it was actually a horrible 480i letterbox. I assume that the primetime programming is the same, although I had to head back to Fishers before it came on.

What are WTHI's long term plans? My hope is that they will soon move Fox and MyTV over to a secondary station so that CBS can get the bandwidth it deserves. Even if the Fox/MyTV station is low power to start with, that would at least allow DirecTV, Dish Network, and Time Warner Cable to provide it in full HD... Any time table on this? PLEASE don't tell me that this band-aid solution is here for the long term!

I believe that having Fox on a subchannel to WTHI will probably be a permanent thing in order to have the Fox network available to the entire market. The low power translator license that LIN Broadcasting has will probably be for the HD version of Fox. Since the FCC goofed & allowed Nexstar to own both WAWV (formerly WFXW) as Mission Broadcasting & Nexstar actually owning WTWO, WTHI was the only choice for adding Fox. Nexstar needs to be stripped of one of the stations (WTWO or WAWV) since they're controlling the Terre Haute market with their dominance of having 2 of 3 commercial stations.

I'm on DISH but they will not provide WTHI's broadcast of FOX (10.2) in HD. I am about 40 miles south of the antennas at Farmersburg though and I get WTHI 10.2/FOX just fine in 1080i. That is until last week when suddenly it was letterboxing everything. Then on this last Monday night they showed House but they were broadcasting a signal that stretched the picture width out to 1920 pixels but the height was limited to just 480 pixels. I had to use the TV adjustments to put the picture into the proper proportions. It was the strangest thing I've seen concerning new HD.

BTW... the Terre Haute signals seem to be best along a north-south axis.

I heard back from the general manager of WTHI, and he told me that Fox in SD on 10.2 is the long term plan. He said that WTHI provides Time Warner Cable in Terre Haute a full, non-compressed HD feed of both their CBS and Fox broadcasts over cable. He also said that both Dish and DirecTV have permission from WTHI to provide those feeds as well, but as of the moment, DirecTV is instead electing to provide the OTA broadcast stream of 10.1 on channel 10 and 10.2 on channel 11.

So it seems to be his position that the lack of Fox in HD is in DirecTV and Dish's court for the time being. Those with Time Warner Cable are apparently getting Fox in HD right now. Those with satellite need to call DirecTV and/or Dish Network and encourage them to pick up WTHI's direct HD feed. Those without cable OR satellite are stuck with Fox in SD.

Let's hope DirecTV makes the switch-over SOON!

Those without cable OR satellite are stuck with Fox in SD.

Nothing like FORCING local viewers to PURCHASE local HD service from Fox. No wonder local TV stations are losing viewers and are becoming more and more irrelevant. Or maybe HD is not a big deal in Terre Haute. That's sad.

Steve

Ya...It's all about the money.

I'm 61 years old; When I was just a young lad and TV's were 23" B&W...... My Grand Mother was amazed.....She said: "Someday there will be a box on the side and you'll have to put coins in it to watch". This was said with rather broken English, as she came over in a boat in the late 1800's....Funny how in-tune she was with the modern world.

Nothing like FORCING local viewers to PURCHASE local HD service from Fox. No wonder local TV stations are losing viewers and are becoming more and more irrelevant. Or maybe HD is not a big deal in Terre Haute. That's sad.

Steve

LIN is not on Mediacomm cable due to a disagreement on money. Lots of people going satellite to get CBS\Fox. This is not looking good PR wise for LIN.

Nothing like FORCING local viewers to PURCHASE local HD service from Fox. No wonder local TV stations are losing viewers and are becoming more and more irrelevant. Or maybe HD is not a big deal in Terre Haute. That's sad.

StevePeople in the Terre Haute area need to call DirecTV and/or Dish Network and encourage them to pick up the HD Fox feed. It sucks that when my parents signed up for a two year commitment, they could get all 4 networks in HD, because Fox was in HD on channel 38, and since there was no ABC at all, DirecTV provided it from New York. Now that there IS a local affiliate for all 4 networks, DirecTV is providing what the local stations are broadcasting.

I'm not blaming DirecTV for what they've done... But they do need to be pressured to pick up the WTHI Fox HD feed, even though that isn't what is going out OTA.

Watching through U-verse, WISH and WNDY, along with WIPX missed the EAS test. Comments??

Watching through U-verse, WISH and WNDY, along with WIPX missed the EAS test. Comments??
Wasn't Uverse obligated to participate in this test, too? They should have blanked every channel with the Nationwide test message.

Wasn't Uverse obligated to participate in this test, too? They should have blanked every channel with the Nationwide test message.

The others (6,13,4 etc) activated. Problem wasn't with U-verse

Thanks, I was just asking if Uverse has equipment to interrupt every one of their channels with EAS messages. I know that Comcast interrupts every channel in their lineup with EAS tests and activations. Why wouldn't Uverse do the same, even if QTV or Animal Planet or MSNBC or WISH-TV did not?

Thanks, I was just asking if Uverse has equipment to interrupt every one of their channels with EAS messages. I know that Comcast interrupts every channel in their lineup with EAS tests and activations. Why wouldn't Uverse do the same, even if QTV or Animal Planet or MSNBC or WISH-TV did not?

I did a very quick scan. U-verse dropped the ball on the few cable channels I saw.

Wasn't Uverse obligated to participate in this test, too? They should have blanked every channel with the Nationwide test message.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/476450-FCC_To_Stations_Don_t_Use_EAS_Tones_In_News_Items.php

In other EAS news, AT&T said Tuesday that since the alert was shortened last week from 3 minutes to 30 seconds, its customers may not recieve the alert, though they were if it were a real emergency.

"If the test only lasts 30 seconds," said AT&T, "alert messages will not be transmitted to U-verse customers and their receivers may not be automatically tuned to a local news station. However, in the event of an actual emergency alert, our customers' receivers would automatically tune to a local news station and all customers would receive the emergency alert message."

AT&T said it has sent out a pre-alert alert to let its viewers know about the alert they may be missing. "In an effort to keep our customers informed," said the company today (Nov. 8), "we today notified our U-verse TV customers via an on screen message that a) the National Emergency Alert System is being tested tomorrow at 2 p.m. EST, b) the test has been shortened by the authorities from three minutes to 30 seconds to reduce overall disruptions, and c) because of the shortened duration of the test, the test may not appear on their TV screens."

"Had this been an actual emergency,I would be half way to Wheeling by now". Actually heard this after a EBS test years ago.

In other EAS news, AT&T said Tuesday that since the alert was shortened last week from 3 minutes to 30 seconds, its customers may not recieve the alert, though they were if it were a real emergency.

"If the test only lasts 30 seconds," said AT&T, "alert messages will not be transmitted to U-verse customers and their receivers may not be automatically tuned to a local news station. However, in the event of an actual emergency alert, our customers' receivers would automatically tune to a local news station and all customers would receive the emergency alert message."

AT&T said it has sent out a pre-alert alert to let its viewers know about the alert they may be missing. "In an effort to keep our customers informed," said the company today (Nov. 8), "we today notified our U-verse TV customers via an on screen message that a) the National Emergency Alert System is being tested tomorrow at 2 p.m. EST, b) the test has been shortened by the authorities from three minutes to 30 seconds to reduce overall disruptions, and c) because of the shortened duration of the test, the test may not appear on their TV screens."

In other words. Daaa....we don't know.
Thanks for calling AT&T; Is there anything else we can help you with today?

Little OT. Don't know if they're required to or not but XM seems to have missed also. Got about a second of the alert tone and then the music went on uninterrupted. Not sure how well the EBS handles the new systems. Wasn't sure what had happened until reading this thread.

Sirius runs routine test on all their channels. They break in on a song, do their thing and back to the song. Surprised XM didn't follow suit, since they are the same company.

Cross posted from EAS thread:

Comcast Cable in Anderson Indiana headend apparently failed the test. I set my Tivo to record two different cable channels, Discovery HD and CNN HD. Discovery ran a crawl at the top of the screen prior to the supposed test and after the test to warn us of what was about to happen and had just happened. However, no test pre-empted programming in any fashion. Same thing happened with CNN minus the pre and post test warnings.

I guess I am dead from whatever the emergency was. LOL

I was in our control room and personally watched off air as WISH and WNDY forwarded the EAS test. Our EAS boxes, however, waited until the activation "effective from" time of 2:03 (Eastern) that the message had. Most boxes in the industry appear to have forwarded immediately.

It is not yet known whether our box's manufacturer has the correct interpretation of the FCC Rules on EAS. They have said that if they need to change it, it is a simple software change.

One of my staffers recorded WISH at home from his AT&T U-verse service, and he says that AT&T simply carried WISH thruout, and did not force-tune his tuner to an alert channel. I assume that the same thing happened with WNDY.

Tom Weber

I'm having all sorts of problems receiving Indy stations tonight. At one point, my best signal levels were 23-1 and 49-1, both a LONG way from Bloomington.
Is this tropo or fog or condensation on my antenna (92% humidity and 40 degrees has covered my car with a layer of moisture) or what?
At one point Terre Haute's 10-1 was coming in.
And, the situation changes almost constantly. Stations fade in and fade out like crazy.
Anybody got an idea what the heck is going on?

I'm having all sorts of problems receiving Indy stations tonight. At one point, my best signal levels were 23-1 and 49-1, both a LONG way from Bloomington.
Is this tropo or fog or condensation on my antenna (92% humidity and 40 degrees has covered my car with a layer of moisture) or what?
At one point Terre Haute's 10-1 was coming in.
And, the situation changes almost constantly. Stations fade in and fade out like crazy.
Anybody got an idea what the heck is going on?

Surge of warm air coming in to the Great Lakes states is causing tropospheric ducting (signal skip) like crazy. For instance, from the Chicago OTA board, people like myself west of Chicago are seeing Cleveland stations:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21255839#post21255839

Point your antenna east, do a scan, see what you get. Or just scan and see what you get. It will be over around dawn, if not sooner...

Sebenste:
Got up too late this morning to catch any East stations (or at least I didn't find any).
Thanks for the clarification on the tropospheric situation. I was afraid something really weird was going on with my antenna system.
Things have calmed down a lot this morning at 9:15 AM, although there are still a few aberrations.

Nat: I've been experiencing much the same, too. Am finding more reliable reception from Louisville than Indy.

I also appreciate the explanation, Sebenste.

I was with relatives in Kokomo last night and noticed that WISH was not coming in at all. I got into the attic to move the antennas (a large VHF and an old Channel Master 4221, 4-bay UHF) and was able to decode WILL, also on RF ch. 9, Urbana, IL as it was overtaking WISH. And a little later I received WAND, on RF ch. 17, Decatur, IL as it was overtaking WISH TV's low-power translator on RF ch. 17. As I moved the antennas in various directions, I was receiving stations from Carbondale, IL, Cincinnati, Chicago, Dayton, Milwaukee, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, and Cleveland. It was an interesting evening of DX reception out to around 250 miles.

Steve

250 miles?
WOW.
Things appear to be back to normal (reception wise) here in Bloomington.

Mind you, that's with outdoor antennas (and pretty good ones, at that). I'm about to do some antenna tests myself, unfortunately, indoor. Hopefully we have another halfway decent night for DX reception.

Edit: There's some propagation enhancement tonight. Not a significant amount, though, based on my tests. I'd like to get some attic or outdoor antenna signal reports, though.

Mind you, that's with outdoor antennas (and pretty good ones, at that). I'm about to do some antenna tests myself, unfortunately, indoor. Hopefully we have another halfway decent night for DX reception.

Edit: There's some propagation enhancement tonight. Not a significant amount, though, based on my tests. I'd like to get some attic or outdoor antenna signal reports, though.

From my house on the far north side of Indy and using outdoor antennas, with a Finco 7 ft. UHF parabolic up about 40 ft., I didn't see much of anything late last night or this morning. The reception we had Thanksgiving night occasionally pops up this time of year, but repeats of that kind of distant reception will be quite rare until springtime.

Some interesting tropo reception last evening and this morning from the southeast, including WVVA-DT-46 (NBC), Bluefield, WV @ 325 miles and WLFG-DT-49 (Rel.), Grundy, VA @ 307 miles. Several Knoxville, TN stations @ 297 have been in, including WTNZ-DT-34 (Fox) for 4 hours so far this morning. Fun reception on the first day of December.

Steve

Your good tropo reception = my bad local reception!
My 23-1 and 15-1 were both off/on last night.

House NY Dems: Protect Our Free TV
Legislators say that auctions would result in a reduction of channels and TV stations available to more than 1.3M over-the-air viewers

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 11/18/2011 4:00:05 PM

A six-pack of Democratic congressfolk from New York have cautioned the deficit reduction supercommittee about the unintended consequences of reclaiming broadcast spectrum for auction to wireless companies.

The committee is widely expected to be considering legislation authorizing spectrum auctions among the many proposals offered up to raise money or cut spending. The auctions are expected to raise several billion dollars -- it is not clear exactly how much -- for deficit reduction.

In their letter, the legislators pointed out that a byproduct of those auctions and the station repacking that would result is that there would be a reduction in the number of channels, and thus TV stations, available to the more than 1.25 million viewers in the state who rely on over-the-air TV.

"Unfortunately," they say, "the FCC's goal of reclaiming 120 MHZ of spectrum (the equivalent of 20 TV channels) may leave insufficient spectrum for the majority of stations currently serving cities including Buffalo, Syracuse, Watertown and Plattsburgh, and fewer stations in New York City and the state capital.

"Receiving free over-the-air TV is extremely important to New York consumers during these tough economic times," they wrote to the co-chairs of the committee, which is running up against a Nov. 23 deadline for a deficit-reduction proposal per the stop-gap bill passed last summer. They also pointed to local TV as a critical lifeline during the recent floods in New York.

They said they were not asking the supercommittee to scrap the voluntary incentive auctions altogether as a funding mechanism, but they did say that the auctions should protect the coverage areas of stations left behind so they could continue to reach all those New Yorkers. The letter essentially echoed the National Association of Broadcasters position that, while it did not outright oppose the spectrum reclamation or auction, the process must be voluntary and the coverage area and signal integrity of broadcasters who remain must be preserved.

Singing on to the letter were Joseph Crowley, Carolyn Maloney, Jerrold Nadler, William Owens, Charles Rangel, and Paul Tonko.

While north of Indy yesterday and today, I noticed that low-power WSOT-TV 57 (analog), Marion, IN has transitioned to WSOT-LD 27 (digital) with 10 kW from a directional antenna. Good signal into Kokomo. I enjoy some of WSOT's classic TV shows.

From my Indy location at a distance of 56 miles, I have not been able to receive WSOT so far, but with the antenna aimed toward Marion, the signal from WIPX-DT 27, Bloomington/Indianapolis (ION) is really getting stomped on.

http://www.wsot-tv.com/aboutus/WSOT_broadcast_map.htm
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21049343/SBC/WSOT%20Flyer.pdf
http://www.sunnycrestbaptist.org/
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=63934

Steve

While north of Indy yesterday and today, I noticed that low-power WSOT-TV 57 (analog), Marion, IN has transitioned to WSOT-LD 27 (digital) with 10 kW from a directional antenna. Good signal into Kokomo. I enjoy some of WSOT's classic TV shows.

From my Indy location at a distance of 56 miles, I have not been able to receive WSOT so far, but with the antenna aimed toward Marion, the signal from WIPX-DT 27, Bloomington/Indianapolis (ION) is really getting stomped on.

http://www.wsot-tv.com/aboutus/WSOT_broadcast_map.htm
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21049343/SBC/WSOT%20Flyer.pdf
http://www.sunnycrestbaptist.org/
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=63934

Steve

Good for the Sunnycrest Baptist Church! They apparently didn't like what they saw on TV, so they just hauled off and put their own station on the air. I hope their new digital signal travels better than the FCC or anybody else predicted.
Thanks for the info, Steve.

I think I brought this up in hear previously, but now that were well past the digital transition for stations when is everyone going to move that darn irritating station I.D. bug to the 16:9 corner rather than keeping it in the 4:3 corner of a 16:9 program? It's one thing to force us to have the I.D. bug, but it really gets in the way sometimes (particularly with subtitled programming) when left in the 4:3 corner. I must commend FOX in the evenings for having it in the 16:9 corner.

I think I brought this up in hear previously, but now that were well past the digital transition for stations when is everyone going to move that darn irritating station I.D. bug to the 16:9 corner rather than keeping it in the 4:3 corner of a 16:9 program? It's one thing to force us to have the I.D. bug, but it really gets in the way sometimes (particularly with subtitled programming) when left in the 4:3 corner. I must commend FOX in the evenings for having it in the 16:9 corner.
Better get resigned to the fact the bug will be 4:3 friendly for many years to come while viewers continue using their old format TV sets and cable companies keep carrying 4x3 legacy copies of channels in analog. Fox's elimination of 4x3 friendly content forced letterbox pictures onto viewers who complained in legion about smaller pictures on their TV sets. Exactly when is probably years and years away.

...smaller pictures on their TV sets..."

Yeah...I gave up explaining aspect ratios to my dad awhile ago. :)

That 4:3 I.D. bug on a 16:9 screen is as annoying as the SD programming out there that they show in 16:9. Half of the Circle of Lights program this year (advertised as "for the first time in HD") was half 16:9 SD!

No more broadcast uniformity since that digital transition thang.

I was just happy when they quit stretching 4:3 to 16:9.

I was just happy when they quit stretching 4:3 to 16:9.

Actually, I've been having trouble with that lately since OTA 6.3 became available. They have 16:9 programming on that 480i sub-channel. All the other local OTA 480i sub-channels seem to be in 4:3. The way my main HD TV tuner works seems to be that you set the aspect ratio per channel source resolution (e.g. 1080i, 720p, and 480i). So, if I have it set for 4:3 on my 480i channels, I have to manually switch to 16:9 on 6.3 to view it properly (but then it messes up the rest of the 480i channels). Not the end of the world, I know, but another annoyance resulting from the lack of standardization since the transition.

Actually, I've been having trouble with that lately since OTA 6.3 became available. They have 16:9 programming on that 480i sub-channel. All the other local OTA 480i sub-channels seem to be in 4:3. The way my main HD TV tuner works seems to be that you set the aspect ratio per channel source resolution (e.g. 1080i, 720p, and 480i). So, if I have it set for 4:3 on my 480i channels, I have to manually switch to 16:9 on 6.3 to view it properly (but then it messes up the rest of the 480i channels). Not the end of the world, I know, but another annoyance resulting from the lack of standardization since the transition.

Yeah, I find that annoying too. But not as bad as 4:3 stretched to 16:9 and scaled to 1080i which seems to lock most devices to 16:9. Had to downrez, change to aspect and then scale back up. Real PITA. The worst was the stretch/zoom combo to a non-standard ratio some tried before scaling. worked out 4:3 was stretched to 16:10 or so. Everyone was only a little bit short and fat. Never did figure out a fix for that one other than changing channels.

"Half of the Circle of Lights program this year (advertised as "for the first time in HD") was half 16:9 SD!

Was the 16 cut in half --- or the 9? ;-)

WALV has moved to digital channel 46. I wonder if 13.3 loses Universal sports after the first of the year, what will replace it ?

WALV has moved to digital channel 46. I wonder if 13.3 loses Universal sports after the first of the year, what will replace it ?

Nice catch with WALV-CD. At 3 miles from the WTHR/WALV tower, now ch. 50 will be wide open for DXing (besides powerful WDTN, Dayton).

Steve

Anybody else think that WRTV 6 HD is looking quite poorly, lately? I know they've added yet another sub channel, but everything just looks dingy and grainier to me.

Anybody else think that WRTV 6 HD is looking quite poorly, lately? I know they've added yet another sub channel, but everything just looks dingy and grainier to me.

They added Livewell Network to the channel. They're on 6.3. Be thankful it's not in HD, or it would look worse on 6.1. ABC O&O stations insist on running Livewell in HD on their stations, along with HD on the main channel. So it looks like crap.

I can't explain it, but 6.1 simply lacks "pop." Not sure why bit-starving leads to decreased contrast and an overall dark look, but that's how it looks to my old tired eyes.

:mad: Well, La-Te-Da .....:) I can't even get WRTV since they went to 3 subs. That is, on a Fusion RT Gold HD Card. Comes in good on my other tuners. It's not found when you do the scan. Was working, till I re-scanned to add 6.3......now nothing. Got to be an issue with the card's sw and WRTV's 'modified method'.....apparently doesn't meet some 'normal standard'.

Ediit: Spooky....Now it scans....Got me.

I can't explain it, but 6.1 simply lacks "pop." Not sure why bit-starving leads to decreased contrast and an overall dark look, but that's how it looks to my old tired eyes.

Nat, while ABC-HD programming is on, have you compared the picture quality between WRTV (two additional subchannels) and WAWV (no subchannels)?

Are you able to receive the new WALV-CD 46 in Bloomington?

Steve

What's on WALV-CD?

- Trip

I can't explain it, but 6.1 simply lacks "pop." Not sure why bit-starving leads to decreased contrast and an overall dark look, but that's how it looks to my old tired eyes.

Yeah, that's how it looks to me too. Like WFYI and their 73 sub channels.

Nat, while ABC-HD programming is on, have you compared the picture quality between WRTV (two additional subchannels) and WAWV (no subchannels)?

Are you able to receive the new WALV-CD 46 in Bloomington?

Steve

I hate to admit it, but a double blind comparison revealed that I really can't tell any difference between WRTV and WAWX. I have to retract my earlier comment. ABC does a good job of sending out a really dark signal!
I can't receive a watchable 46-1.

WALV has moved to digital channel 46. I wonder if 13.3 loses Universal sports after the first of the year, what will replace it ?

Me-TV is coming to 13.3. Already have my season passes for Peter Gunn and Route 66 set. :)

Me-TV is coming to 13.3. Already have my season passes for Peter Gunn and Route 66 set. :)

Very cool! AntennaTV on WXIN 59.2 has become one of my favorite OTA stations and now this will be a nice addition. Thanks for the info, Lambertman.

What's on WALV-CD?

- Trip

Trip, it's WTHR's SkyTrak weather channel, the same feed that appears on 13.2 and what was on WALV-CA-50 (analog). No subchannels (so far).

Steve

Me-TV is coming to 13.3. Already have my season passes for Peter Gunn and Route 66 set. :)

Wow!; My 'second childhood' is coming true.

Has anyone attempted to configure a cable card with the HDHomeRun Prime on Bright House? I have the original HDHomeRun and get the ClearQAM channels and was wondering if I could ditch the Bright House DVR completely, but I have heard horror stories of getting the CableCard to work.

Fellow OTA viewers,

I'm loving the new 13.3 MeTV (despite its obnoxious station ID bug). However, yesterday and today, I am having a lot of trouble with reception on WISHTV 8.1-8.3 (no problems with any other OTA stations). I spoke with a station engineer this morning, and he said no changes have occurred on their end. He said to try their low-powered 17.1-3 instead. I did, and my 3 different tuners all divert back to 8.1-3 when I enter 17.1-3. However, I then get reception, but then it gets blocky and unwatchable again.

Is anyone else experiencing this with 8.1-3? I never had a problem with WISHTV before. In fact, 8.1 1080i has always been the best PQ of all the OTA channels I receive.

Thanks in advance.

......... He said to try their low-powered 17.1-3 instead. I did, and my 3 different tuners all divert back to 8.1-3 when I enter 17.1-3. However, I then get reception, but then it gets blocky and unwatchable again.

Is anyone else experiencing this with 8.1-3?

WISH on RF channel 9 comes up as virtual channels 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3. Likewise, WISH on RF channel 17 (translator station) also comes up as virtual channels 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3. Most DTV tuners stack them up as two sets of each, 8.1 (RF ch. 9), 8.1 (RF ch. 17), etc. So as you channel up through your scanned stations, the first 8.1 should be from RF ch. 9 and the second 8.1 from RF ch. 17 (if it's received).

Depending on your location, which is not mentioned in your post, and depending on your antenna, WISH on RF ch. 17 might provide you a stronger signal than RF ch. 9. Are you using an indoor or outdoor antenna? This could make a difference as to which signal you receive better/stronger.

I haven't noticed any reception issues with WISH, but I'm only 5.5 miles distant from the WISH tower.

Yes, I too am enjoying MeTV on WTHR 13.3, along with AntennaTV on WXIN 59.2. It's nice to have some variety in OTA programming besides all the Judge _____________ shows, marathon newscasts, etc. It's too bad that This TV on WTTV 4.2 and WTTK 29.2 is preempted during the morning hours by Fox 59 News.

Fellow OTA viewers,

I'm loving the new 13.3 MeTV (despite its obnoxious station ID bug). However, yesterday and today, I am having a lot of trouble with reception on WISHTV 8.1-8.3 (no problems with any other OTA stations). I spoke with a station engineer this morning, and he said no changes have occurred on their end. He said to try their low-powered 17.1-3 instead. I did, and my 3 different tuners all divert back to 8.1-3 when I enter 17.1-3. However, I then get reception, but then it gets blocky and unwatchable again.

Is anyone else experiencing this with 8.1-3? I never had a problem with WISHTV before. In fact, 8.1 1080i has always been the best PQ of all the OTA channels I receive.

Thanks in advance.

I live just North of Anderson, and get the same reception problems, more prevalent on 8 than 13. Seems to clear-up at some time of the year; Others, not so watchable do to constant audio dropouts. Both are VHF so I figure it's an antenna/location issue we are both experiencing. I do pick-up the low-powered 17.1-3 without the issue on the VHF band. And also have tuner issues separating the two cloned channels. There was a time when VHF 8 was 'the best'. When they first went HD on the NEWS I started watching 8 full time, but about 2 years ago I started having the issue and switched to the more reliable 13.

I assume the FCC is correct in their decision that VHF has better propagation than UHF, therefore the max power allowed for VHF channels is lower than for UHF. Well.....in a perfect world, I have a feeling this may be true, but when you include the many variables in a real world....I bet VHF isn't all that great of a transmission carrier frequency.

WISH on RF channel 9 comes up as virtual channels 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3. Likewise, WISH on RF channel 17 (translator station) also comes up as virtual channels 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3. Most DTV tuners stack them up as two sets of each, 8.1 (RF ch. 9), 8.1 (RF ch. 17), etc. So as you channel up through your scanned stations, the first 8.1 should be from RF ch. 9 and the second 8.1 from RF ch. 17 (if it's received).

Depending on your location, which is not mentioned in your post, and depending on your antenna, WISH on RF ch. 17 might provide you a stronger signal than RF ch. 9. Are you using an indoor or outdoor antenna? This could make a difference as to which signal you receive better/stronger.

I haven't noticed any reception issues with WISH, but I'm only 5.5 miles distant from the WISH tower.

Yes, I too am enjoying MeTV on WTHR 13.3, along with AntennaTV on WXIN 59.2. It's nice to have some variety in OTA programming besides all the Judge _____________ shows, marathon newscasts, etc. It's too bad that This TV on WTTV 4.2 and WTTK 29.2 is preempted during the morning hours by Fox 59 News.

Thanks for the info. I have an amplified Omni-directional antenna (Radio Shack) in my attic connected to coax. that runs to 3 rooms in the house. As I said, I get all the OTA channels I think I should be getting. Of course just after sending the message, WISH seemed to clear up. Perhaps it was just the weather conditions, but still weird since I hadn't noticed that problem before.

I gotta laugh at the MeTV...their "e/i" designated programming on Sat. and Sun. mornings is about the worst programming I have seen. However, their main programming is great.

Hey guys,

I'm new to all of this OTA stuff and was looking to get in on all the OTA channels available in my area. I'm about 45 miles south east of all the antennas in the Indy area. I was looking at getting a large "bow tie" type of HDTV antenna. Here is a link to the one I was considering. Clickie (http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-DB8-Multidirectional-Antenna/dp/B000EHWCDW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1326775435&sr=8-6). Am I headed in the right direction or is there something else I should consider. Or is even the right place to seek info on this stuff.

Thanks guys.

Regards,

RTROSE

Hey guys,

I'm new to all of this OTA stuff and was looking to get in on all the OTA channels available in my area. I'm about 45 miles south east of all the antennas in the Indy area. I was looking at getting a large "bow tie" type of HDTV antenna. Here is a link to the one I was considering. Clickie (http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-DB8-Multidirectional-Antenna/dp/B000EHWCDW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1326775435&sr=8-6). Am I headed in the right direction or is there something else I should consider. Or is even the right place to seek info on this stuff.

Thanks guys.

Regards,

RTROSE

A DB8 is a good choice for UHF. It may work for WISH-TV on RF 9 & WTHR on RF 13, but I still don't recommend this type of antenna for VHF, as it may work for 1 person, but not for another person. Even though WISH-TV has a translator on RF 17, the signal is mainly aimed SW to protect WYIN Gary (transmitter near Cedar Lake in Lake Dalecarlia). If this antenna does not work on WISH-TV & WTHR for you, then you'll need to add either an Antennacraft Y10-7-13 or Winegard YA1713 VHF-Hi antenna for those 2 stations. Since you don't have a TV Fool listed, nor do you have a city/town listed that you live in (just mention that you're 45 SE of Indianapolis), the UHF antenna needs to be aimed somewhere between Trafalgar (for WTTV on RF 48 & if WIPX on RF 27 is important for the Bloomington stations) & Indianapolis for almost everything else (if you get a VHF-Hi antenna, that is only aimed at Indianapolis). Since WNDY is further north around Cicero, I wouldn't count on getting that from where you're at. We really won't know what you can get without a TV fool chart.

A DB8 is a good choice for UHF. It may work for WISH-TV on RF 9 & WTHR on RF 13, but I still don't recommend this type of antenna for VHF, as it may work for 1 person, but not for another person. Even though WISH-TV has a translator on RF 17, the signal is mainly aimed SW to protect WYIN Gary (transmitter near Cedar Lake in Lake Dalecarlia). If this antenna does not work on WISH-TV & WTHR for you, then you'll need to add either an Antennacraft Y10-7-13 or Winegard YA1713 VHF-Hi antenna for those 2 stations. Since you don't have a TV Fool listed, nor do you have a city/town listed that you live in (just mention that you're 45 SE of Indianapolis), the UHF antenna needs to be aimed somewhere between Trafalgar (for WTTV on RF 48 & if WIPX on RF 27 is important for the Bloomington stations) & Indianapolis for almost everything else (if you get a VHF-Hi antenna, that is only aimed at Indianapolis). Since WNDY is further north around Cicero, I wouldn't count on getting that from where you're at. We really won't know what you can get without a TV fool chart.


Thanks for the quick reply. Like I said I'm new to this stuff (OTA anyway) was not even aware of TV Fool, heard of antenna web though.

Here ya go.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/RTROSE_album/Radar-All.png

Now that you have the info what would you suggest? I mainly want WISH, WTHR, and WTT4, WXIN, WNDY for Colts/football games.

I hope this helps you out. Thanks again.

Regards,

RTROSE

WNDY is about as far from you as the Terre Haute stations are from me. I know for a fact that you wouldn't get it with an indoor antenna. You'll need a fringe 60-120 mile antenna for it to get it with any reliability. Since you want WTHI and WISH, you may want to consider buying an antenna that specializes in VHF, perhaps with similar fringe reception.

WNDY is about as far from you as the Terre Haute stations are from me. I know for a fact that you wouldn't get it with an indoor antenna. You'll need a fringe 60-120 mile antenna for it to get it with any reliability. Since you want WTHI and WISH, you may want to consider buying an antenna that specializes in VHF, perhaps with similar fringe reception.


If this was meant for me thanks, could I impose on maybe a link or to to a fringe antenna? Is this what you are talking about? Something like THIS (http://www.amazon.com/AntennaCraft-HBU55-145-High-Band-Antenna/dp/B003EAU3A0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_5) or THIS (http://www.amazon.com/HDTV-Antenna-Extreme-Fringe-Areas/dp/B0031Y8248/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1326836999&sr=8-13)?

Thanks.

Regards,

RTROSE

The second link is UHF only, so it won't get WTHI or WISH (except perhaps for its low power retransmitter). The first one may work, though if a reviewer needed an amplifier at 45 miles, you'll definitely need one. (According to the AntennaCraft website, it's rated red (AntennaWeb's rating system) without an amp, violet with, so with an amp, it should work.) There's a good chance that, at less than 20 miles away, WTTV and the other Bloomington stations might overload your antenna if you have an amplifier hooked up, though, so you'll either want a separate (probably indoor) antenna for them or an amplifier that you can easily switch on and off. You may still want to buy with a good return policy, just in case you can't get WNDY.

As far as other antennas go, the double bay Gray-Hoverman antenna (http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/index.htm) claims up to a 100 mile reception unamplified. If you're comfortable making an antenna, that's one way to go.

Thanks for the quick reply. Like I said I'm new to this stuff (OTA anyway) was not even aware of TV Fool, heard of antenna web though. Here ya go.

Now that you have the info what would you suggest? I mainly want WISH, WTHR, and WTT4, WXIN, WNDY for Colts/football games.

I hope this helps you out. Thanks again.


You're showing Columbus as your location. I live in Columbus, downtown at 6th and Washington.

I have one 'double-bow' antenna (Channel Master 4228) with a Winegard in-line power amp and this antenna, with a rotator, gives me good reception for WISH and all the Indy stations in UHF. (WNDY presents the biggest challenge, I think due to co-channel interference.) Can also turn the antenna to Louisville and get the major networks, all but Louisville's PBS. I get a good pic from Bloomington's PBS station.

I've got it all up about 35-40 feet with unobstructed view N to the Indy antenna farm, maybe advantages you might not have. I used to have the 4228 paired with a Winegard 1713 VHF (which I still have), but found that the 4228 did fine by itself.

Give me a call 378-2032 and I'd be happy to show you my set up. I benefited greatly from this forum, so I need to "pay it forward".

Tom Heller

You're showing Columbus as your location. I live in Columbus, downtown at 6th and Washington.

I have one 'double-bow' antenna (Channel Master 4228) with a Winegard in-line power amp and this antenna, with a rotator, gives me good reception for WISH and all the Indy stations in UHF. (WNDY presents the biggest challenge, I think due to co-channel interference.) Can also turn the antenna to Louisville and get the major networks, all but Louisville's PBS. I get a good pic from Bloomington's PBS station.

I've got it all up about 35-40 feet with unobstructed view N to the Indy antenna farm, maybe advantages you might not have. I used to have the 4228 paired with a Winegard 1713 VHF (which I still have), but found that the 4228 did fine by itself.

Give me a call 378-2032 and I'd be happy to show you my set up. I benefited greatly from this forum, so I need to "pay it forward".

Tom Heller

Hey thanks. I just may hit you up one day and take a look. Especially if I get lost in the weeds figuring all of this stuff out.

Regards,

RTROSE

From what I have read on TVFool, WIPX-LP has applied to go digital on 34.1. Talked to the station manager several months ago to see if knew when this would happen, he had no idea. WIPX 63.1 does not reach Anderson very well. Does anyone have any infomation? 34.1 could fill in the gap like 29.1 does for WTTV.


I came across the above post from Oct 2010 and was wondering what the status of WIPX-LP 34.1 might be or if anyone had any additional info? I have only an indoor setup and am unable to get the parent station from the Trafalgar area.

Also, sorry, can't figure out why the title is in all small letters when I typed it in all caps. :confused:

You're showing Columbus as your location. I live in Columbus, downtown at 6th and Washington.

I have one 'double-bow' antenna (Channel Master 4228) with a Winegard in-line power amp and this antenna, with a rotator, gives me good reception for WISH and all the Indy stations in UHF. (WNDY presents the biggest challenge, I think due to co-channel interference.) Can also turn the antenna to Louisville and get the major networks, all but Louisville's PBS. I get a good pic from Bloomington's PBS station.

I've got it all up about 35-40 feet with unobstructed view N to the Indy antenna farm, maybe advantages you might not have. I used to have the 4228 paired with a Winegard 1713 VHF (which I still have), but found that the 4228 did fine by itself.

Give me a call 378-2032 and I'd be happy to show you my set up. I benefited greatly from this forum, so I need to "pay it forward".

Tom Heller

I had the Channel Master 4228 a while back and thought it was horrible, and decided to go with the Antennas Direct DB8 since I used to have a DB4.

But after the digital switch over I started having problems receiving WISH and WTHR with it.

So when my best friend got one of the Antennas Direct Clear Stream 5's and seen how good of reception he was getting with it, I went and got one.

I live just south of Plainfield and currently it's sitting in my sun room on the inside wall facing directly north and picks up everything at the Indy antenna farm, along with WNDY, but the amazing thing is that I'm picking up a clear signal of both WTTV and WIPX out of Trafalgar and there is no direct clear line of sight because of it sitting on the inside of a brick wall in that room.

I really can't wait to get this mounted correctly to see it's true performance.

Hi everyone. I live in Odon (Daviess County) and I have an antenna approximately 25ft in the air (not sure what kind but I had it installed about 5 years ago). There are some large trees around my house. I have an amplifier booster (not sure what kind). I am only able to pick up WVUT, WTWO, WAWV, WTHI. I would really like to pick up the Evansville stations (WTVW, WEHT, WFIE, WEVV). I provided the data below for those that know what all of this info means. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could pull in the Evansville stations? I truly appreciate your advice/suggestions. Thanks!!!


Callsign Chan Network Dist (mi) Path NM (dB)
WTWO-DT 36 (2.1) NBC 34.6 1Edge 22.4
WAWV-TV -- 39 (38.1) 34.6 1Edge 20.9
WTHI-DT 10 (10.1) CBS 34.4 1Edge 19.4
WTVW-DT 28 (7.1) Fox 60.0 2Edge 6.1
WEHT 7 (25.1) ABC 74.4 2Edge -2.6
WFIE-DT 46 (14.1) NBC 71.9 2Edge -3.6
WEVV-DT 45 (44.1) CBS 72.4 2Edge -6.0

Hi everyone. I live in Odon (Daviess County) and I have an antenna approximately 25ft in the air (not sure what kind but I had it installed about 5 years ago). There are some large trees around my house. I have an amplifier booster (not sure what kind). I am only able to pick up WVUT, WTWO, WAWV, WTHI. I would really like to pick up the Evansville stations (WTVW, WEHT, WFIE, WEVV). I provided the data below for those that know what all of this info means. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could pull in the Evansville stations? I truly appreciate your advice/suggestions. Thanks!!!


Callsign Chan Network Dist (mi) Path NM (dB)
WTWO-DT 36 (2.1) NBC 34.6 1Edge 22.4
WAWV-TV -- 39 (38.1) 34.6 1Edge 20.9
WTHI-DT 10 (10.1) CBS 34.4 1Edge 19.4
WTVW-DT 28 (7.1) Fox 60.0 2Edge 6.1
WEHT 7 (25.1) ABC 74.4 2Edge -2.6
WFIE-DT 46 (14.1) NBC 71.9 2Edge -3.6
WEVV-DT 45 (44.1) CBS 72.4 2Edge -6.0


The ability to receive distant reception like that on a consistent basis is going to come down to several factors. Location is very key. Being in the sweet spot for the strongest signal is very important. When you are trying to receive stations beyond line of sight, almost anything can block the signal. It can be done, but it is going to take some antenna height, a high gain antenna(s) and fine precision wiring to get that signal delivered to the DTV receiver/tuner.

I know a viewer on the southeast side of Kokomo who can watch Fort Wayne DTV @ 66 miles and South Bend DTV @ 80-81 miles MOST of the time and these stations are all listed by TV Fool as 2 edge. But the terrain between Kokomo and those cities is mostly very flat. Even with WIPB, Muncie @ 45 miles, with his 48 ft. tower WIPB's signal is still within line of sight, whereas with your antenna height of 25 ft., even the Terre Haute stations @ 34 miles are not within line of sight, but rather 1 edge (below the horizon). The terrain in your area is going to make distant reception more difficult, unless you happen to be located on a nice hilltop (perfect!!).

I don't know what type of antenna you are currently using but the viewer in Kokomo is using a discontinued Channel Master 4251 (7 ft. parabolic UHF antenna) which might have been one of the highest gain UHF antennas ever made for residential use. Here's a great website with the history of the CM 4251. http://www.rocketroberts.com/cm4251/cm4251.htm BTW, this antenna in Kokomo was originally installed in 1975 and has been in use ever since.

Also, a very good (high gain/low noise) preamp is a must for your setup, too. One of the best, and widely used preamps when at some distance from local TV and FM transmitters, is the Channel Master 7777. In your location, you are going to need to boost those weak signals as much as possible. The viewer in Kokomo is also using this preamp.

That's my 2 cents in your search for info. I've messed around with a number of antennas, preamps, etc. in this area around Indy, but I'm not that familiar with the terrain issues and such around your area. Just because something works fine in this area, doesn't mean it will work in your area, or any other location. You may just need to do some testing (trial and error) to see what works or doesn't. I'd check with some neighbors or maybe a local/area antenna supply store (??).

Good luck. Let us know what you try and/or decide to do.

As customary, Goldrich nailed it.
I can only say that my own experience has shown how quirky OTA reception is. Moving an antenna just a few feet in one direction or anther can make a lot of difference.
Experimentation is one of the main keys. :)

I am still not sure what type of antenna I have but it looks alot like the Rca Ant3038xr. The booster I have is a Winegard PS-9370. I thought my antenna was pointing the right direction but it wasn't. So I turned it to the South and I can pull in channel 7-1 (which used to be fox but doesn't appear to be now) and channel 25 (ABC). I am unable to pull anything else in. Do I have a good signal booster? From the antenna mentioned above is that a good one to have in my situation?

I am still not sure what type of antenna I have but it looks alot like the Rca Ant3038xr. The booster I have is a Winegard PS-9370. I thought my antenna was pointing the right direction but it wasn't. So I turned it to the South and I can pull in channel 7-1 (which used to be fox but doesn't appear to be now) and channel 25 (ABC). I am unable to pull anything else in. Do I have a good signal booster? From the antenna mentioned above is that a good one to have in my situation?

I am not familiar with the RCA antenna you own, but after looking it up, it does appear that it should be good for the VHF stations, like WTHI on RF channel 10 and WEHT on RF channel 7. As for its ability to receive weak UHF stations, that's a trial and error situation. As for aiming the antenna, that can be a very critical issue with receiving a weak DTV station. A few degrees plus or minus can make the difference between receiving it and not receiving it.

As for the Winegard PS-9370, that appears to be a discontinued AC power supply unit for a Winegard preamp, not the actual model of the preamp.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=PS-9370&d=Winegard-PS-9370-TV-Antenna-Power-Supply-Pre-Amp-Power-Inserter-Injector-In-Line-18-Volt-(PS-9370)&sku=615798101480

The Channel Master 4251 is discontinued. I mentioned it as a reference as to what I know works well for long distance UHF reception. If you could locate one in your area, especially closer to Evansville, that antenna might work very well for your location. Stacking two Antennas Direct 91XGs might work well, too. Just a couple suggestions. Or your current antenna might work well too if up a little higher and accurately aimed.

Have you tried receiving the Louisville DTVs which are virtually the same distance as the Evansville stations? The Louisville stations transmit from towers on top of a high peak in Floyds Knobs, IN.

BTW, WTVW, Evansville, is no longer a Fox affiliate. Fox moved to WEVV, Evansville on its subchannel. If you are looking for a Fox affiliate, you might try WDRB, Louisville on RF channel 49, virtual channels 41.1 and 41.2. It transmits at the maximum power level of 1000 kW.

Question about the Channel Master 7777. When I google it I'm seeing a couple different models under that name. One model has input and output power. Another model has VHF Separate Input, UHF or Combined Input, and Output power. Which one should I get?

BTW, I turned antenna towards Louisville and I can't get them. Once I get the Channel Master I will try it again.

Question about the Channel Master 7777. When I google it I'm seeing a couple different models under that name. One model has input and output power. Another model has VHF Separate Input, UHF or Combined Input, and Output power. Which one should I get?

There is only one model of the Channel Master 7777. It has two parts: the outdoor preamp unit located as close to the antenna as possible and the indoor power supply unit. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=CM-7777&d=Channel-Master-CM7777-Titan2-VHFUHF-TV-Antenna-Preamplifier-with-Power-Supply-(CM7777)&c=Pre-Amplifiers&sku=02057207774

The outdoor unit allows you various combinations of hookups: VHF separate input & UHF or combined input. With your all-channel antenna, you could simply use the combined input (VHF/UHF). If you decide to use two different antennas, one for VHF and one UHF, then use the VHF input from the VHF antenna and then use the UHF input from the UHF antenna.

I believe this unit is currently on back order by almost all suppliers/retailers.

So this is hooked up outside on my tower? The one I have now is in my basement. I have the antenna ran into the house and plugged into the pre-amp and then cables running off of that going to 3 different tv's.

I'm checking with the folks that installed my antenna but I believe the brand/model of my antenna is Winegard HD8200U or Winegard HD7084P. I'm also checking with them to find out if they installed any type of amplifier on the tower itself. After seeing the Channel Master 7777 and thinking there is a part that is installed on the tower itself and then the power supply in the house I'm thinking I've got a similar setup. I will post that info when I hear back from them.

So this is hooked up outside on my tower? The one I have now is in my basement. I have the antenna ran into the house and plugged into the pre-amp and then cables running off of that going to 3 different tv's.

Yes, part of it goes outside on the tower near the antenna so it can amplify the strongest possible signal right off the antenna. Depending on how long the coaxial cable is between the antenna and the DTV receiver/tuner, the signal is getting weaker and weaker the longer the distance. The pre-amp keeps the signal strong from the antenna to the receiver. Installation of a pre-amp. http://www.solidsignal.com/p/?p=3535

It sounds like you have a distribution amp. Sometimes splitting signals to various TVs can weaken the signal even more. As a test, I'd try hooking up just one TV and seeing if your signal level increases without the coax runs to the other two TVs. Also, you currently have some signal loss through the cable between the antenna and the amp in the basement, depending on how many feet of cable that represents. When you are trying to receive weak signals, you need to receive and maintain as much of that signal as possible.

Al Grossniklaus, WTHR's director of engineering, monitors the posts here at AVS Forum and he had this recommendation to pass along.............

"BTW, regarding the recent AVS discussions about outdoor antenna recommendations – I’ve found the AntennaCraft HBU series to be reasonably priced, well built and excellent performers, don’t have unnecessary low band VHF elements which unnecessarily add windload and compromise gain, and they are available through Radio Shack as well as online. For those 40 – 50 miles out the HBU44 can work well and at more fringe distances the HBU55 would be the ticket."

Thanks, Al, and congrats on your recent award!
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2011/08/03/52994/grossniklaus-is-sbes-engineer-of-the-year

Steve

Al Grossniklaus, WTHR's director of engineering, monitors the posts here at AVS Forum and he had this recommendation to pass along.............

"BTW, regarding the recent AVS discussions about outdoor antenna recommendations – I’ve found the AntennaCraft HBU series to be reasonably priced, well built and excellent performers, don’t have unnecessary low band VHF elements which unnecessarily add windload and compromise gain, and they are available through Radio Shack as well as online. For those 40 – 50 miles out the HBU44 can work well and at more fringe distances the HBU55 would be the ticket."

Thanks, Al, and congrats on your recent award!
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2011/08/03/52994/grossniklaus-is-sbes-engineer-of-the-year

Steve

Check online or call the local Radio Shack store if they have the antennas in stock. My local Radio Shack stores do not carry any outdoor antennas in stock. They however allow you to order online, & have them shipped to the store for free. For the Indianapolis market, no all channel antennas or VHF antenna Antennacraft CS600 should even be sold locally (at least in the stores), since WISH-TV & WTHR are the only VHF stations in the market, & they're VHF-Hi. All channel antennas & & Antennacraft CS600 should only be sold at stores in markets where there is at least 1 VHF-Lo station. The only markets within the midwest that need an antenna with VHF-Lo are those in the Kalamazoo portion of the Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo market, Chicago (for those interested in Class A station WOCK-CD), Davenport, IA, & if WWAZ ever gets back on the air on RF 5 (licensed to Fond Du Lac in the Green Bay market, but would transmit from Milwaukee).

"I’ve found the AntennaCraft HBU series to be reasonably priced, well built and excellent performers, don’t have unnecessary low band VHF elements which unnecessarily add windload and compromise gain, and they are available through Radio Shack as well as online. For those 40 – 50 miles out the HBU44 can work well and at more fringe distances the HBU55 would be the ticket."


For what it's worth, I concur with Al Grossniklaus on his appraisal of the HBU line. My only addition is to make sure you have a good balun.

The "as shipped" baluns with the HBU are hit and miss in terms of quality and might make a difference for that hard-to-get station. I've found the ChannelMaster baluns to be good performers and are a good match for the exceptional line of HBU antennas.

I just got confirmation that my antenna is the Winegard HD 7084P PLATINUM SERIES and my amplifier is the Winegard ANWI8780 Winegard ANWI8780 Signal Amplifier. Do you think I would benefit that much by getting a new antenna and a new amplifier? Both were installed in 2004.

I live on the Southwest side of Anderson and I too have been experiencing drop outs on Wish 8.1. I installed a CM 7777 and LOST channels. I returned it to Summitsource and pick up a Winegard HD7697. It was a nice today, finally got it installed. I replaced a 2 year old Winegard HD 7694. On my dish 722k tuner, I actually lost a few points on the meter, but the signal is much more steady. Haven't seen as many drop outs. My next step is to get a distribution amp to replace my ancient Channel Plus. Anybody tried the Wingard HDA 200 ?

I live on the Southwest side of Anderson and I too have been experiencing drop outs on Wish 8.1. I installed a CM 7777 and LOST channels. I returned it to Summitsource and pick up a Winegard HD7697. It was a nice today, finally got it installed. I replaced a 2 year old Winegard HD 7694. On my dish 722k tuner, I actually lost a few points on the meter, but the signal is much more steady. Haven't seen as many drop outs. My next step is to get a distribution amp to replace my ancient Channel Plus. Anybody tried the Wingard HDA 200 ?

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with the 7777. I'm wondering if you got too much RF from WGNR 97.9's 50,000 watt signal on the southwest side of Anderson since you live in that area. The unit should have been shipped with the FM trap switch in the "on" position.

Just a thought. The other internal switch should have been set in the "combined" position, which is for an all-channel antenna or UHF-only antenna. If you use a separate VHF antenna and used the VHF input on the 7777, the internal switch needs to be changed to the "separate" position.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=CM-7777&d=Channel-Master-CM7777-Titan2-VHF%2FUHF-TV-Antenna-Preamplifier-with-Power-Supply-(CM-7777)&sku=02057207774&tab=reviews Click on "ALTERNATE VIEWS" and then "Image 3 of 6" picture to see the switch locations with positions. I'm sure you already checked this out but I know an occasion where an antenna installer forgot to change the switch and had to reclimb a tall tower to get it changed.

I just got confirmation that my antenna is the Winegard HD 7084P PLATINUM SERIES and my amplifier is the Winegard ANWI8780 Winegard ANWI8780 Signal Amplifier. Do you think I would benefit that much by getting a new antenna and a new amplifier? Both were installed in 2004.

If the antenna is still in good condition, & you receive your stations, then I wouldn't replace it, just because WTTV & WRTV left the VHF band. If you just want to get one that has the shorter VHF elements & less wind resistance, then it might be worth it. I can't speak about the pre-amp, but if that still works, then I also wouldn't replace it. I had considered the Winegard HD7084p myself, but took a pass on it, & got separate VHF & UHF antennas.

I live on the Southwest side of Anderson and I too have been experiencing drop outs on Wish 8.1. I installed a CM 7777 and LOST channels. I returned it to Summitsource and pick up a Winegard HD7697. It was a nice today, finally got it installed. I replaced a 2 year old Winegard HD 7694. On my dish 722k tuner, I actually lost a few points on the meter, but the signal is much more steady. Haven't seen as many drop outs. My next step is to get a distribution amp to replace my ancient Channel Plus. Anybody tried the Wingard HDA 200 ?

Installed a Winegard HDA 200, enough power for 12 outlets. Between the larger antenna and this amp, I rarely see a drop out. My problems with WISH 8.1 have been solved. WTHR 13.1 is much improved, just in time for Super Bowl !

Over-the-Air TV Catches Second Wind, Aided by Web
Wall Street Journal Feb 21 2012
By CHRISTOPHER S. STEWART

It's cool to have rabbit ears again.

Largely relegated to obscurity decades ago, old-fashioned television broadcasts—over the airwaves and not via cable or satellite—are enjoying an unexpected revival in the digital era.

With an increased array of online-video programming now drawing viewers' attention, companies are starting to pitch consumers on complementing online video streamed from the Web with broadcast-TV signals as a way to save money on cable subscriptions.

If it gains traction, this trend could undercut part of the rationale for selling off TV spectrum in voluntary auctions, approved by Congress on Friday, aimed at freeing up spectrum for wireless broadband.

There are signs that consumers are responding. TV-antenna seller Richard Schneider of St. Louis says sales at his company are soaring. Mr. Schneider's Antennas Direct sold 70,000 antennas in January, and he expects to double last year's sales of about 600,000. That was up from 400,000 antennas in 2010.

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. recently agreed to sell Mr. Schneider's antennas, the retailer confirmed Friday, joining Best Buy Co., Costco Wholesale Corp. and others.

Mr. Schneider's antennas cost from $50 to $150, and he says the typical customer saves $96 a month by "cutting the cord" on cable or satellite TV, according a survey his company conducted.

The average monthly bills for basic cable service and broadband service add up $91.44, before add-ons like high definition and premium channels, according to SNL Kagan. By sacrificing basic-cable channels, and signing up for Netflix Inc., a household could pay less than $48 per month.

"Every time that Hulu and Netflix enhance their services, our phones light up," said Mr., Schneider, referring to two online-video services. (Hulu is an online-video service owned by Walt Disney Co., Providence Equity Partners, Hulu employees, Comcast Corp.'s NBCUniversal and News Corp. News Corp. also owns The Wall Street Journal.)

Others have jumped on the bandwagon. Boxee Inc., which sells a set-top box that lets people stream online video, offers a $49 add-on antenna that pulls in broadcast-TV signals.

"Many consumers don't realize they can get these channels over the air in HD for free, or for a small fee from your cable provider," said Avner Ronen, chief executive of Boxee.

A variation of this idea came last week from a new service called Aereo, backed by IAC/ InterActiveCorp chairman and television veteran Barry Diller. Aereo will start next month a service to stream online local-broadcast signals for residents in New York City—where over-the-air reception is difficult—for a monthly fee of $12.

It is aimed as a complement to online video services. But Mr. Diller said, "I think this will mean increased usage for broadcast."

The value of spectrum used by broadcast TV has been hotly debated in the past couple of years, as the FCC has looked for ways to add spectrum for wireless broadband. Last year FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski said the percentage of viewers watching broadcast over the air, rather than through cable or satellite, has fallen to less than 10%, in contrast to the precable-TV days when it was 100%.

While most people get their broadcast channels as part of a pay-TV package that usually includes cable channels, consumers with newer TVs, or an inexpensive converter for old TVs, can receive over-the-air signals from broadcast stations free in areas with good reception. Mr Schneider says the number of channels varies based on the area, from about 90 stations in Los Angeles to about 25 in St. Louis. He says on average that viewers get 30 to 45 channels, as long as they don't live in a canyon or deep valley and are within 65 miles of a transmitting tower.

Cable channels have become the most lucrative part of the entertainment business, mainly because of huge fees paid by cable and satellite subscribers, a cut of which is passed on to the channels. Broadcast stations found it difficult to extract cash payments from distributors until relatively recently. And even now these fees are a relatively small, albeit growing, part of broadcast stations' revenue. SNL Kagan estimates stations will pull in nearly $1.5 billion in such fees in 2011, compared with $38 billion in fees for cable channels.

TV executives lately have warned that cable's rising subscription costs may prompt people to cut back. Indeed, in the past 18 months, the number of overall pay-TV subscribers has largely stagnated, after years of steady growth. At the same time, the number of American households wired with only broadband and broadcast TV jumped 23% to 5.1 million in the third quarter of 2011 compared with the year-earlier period, according to a recent Nielsen study.

"It's not a stretch to think that the broadcast business model will outlive that of cable," said National Association of Broadcasters spokesman Dennis Wharton. "The naysayers can talk all they want about broadcasting being a dinosaur."

The big media companies that own the major broadcast networks are generally eager to preserve the current cable-centric model. Not only do they mostly own big portfolios of cable channels; media outlets also haven't figured out how to generate advertising revenues from online outlets in the same proportion as off-line. So the shift of viewers from traditional TV to the Web could hurt ad revenues.

"There are a lot of moving parts," said Perry Sook, CEO and president of Nexstar Broadcasting Group Inc., which owns a few dozen local-TV stations. In a cord-cutting world, Mr. Sook sees the advantage to broadcasters of fewer channels—even against greater online competition—but worries that the potential ad revenue wouldn't make up for lost subscription fees.

Mr. Schneider, the antenna seller, meanwhile, has been lately partnering with TV stations to give away antennas and spread the gospel of cord-cutting. He says that for some stations the giveaways are about increasing viewership while for others it's "out a sense of duty to their community."

—Sam Schechner contributed to this article.
Write to Christopher S. Stewart at christopher.stewart@wsj.com

Hey guys,

Just by happenstance I picked up a Channel Master 7777 for the grand total of FREE, so I could not turn it down. I have just hooked it up just off the deck in a temp position and done a quick channel search. I know that when I mount it up on a mast and get it dialed in the reception will be much better. Also I think that there is another part to the 7777, but all I was given was the antenna. I know I will need a signal amplifier, but I also need to split the signal three ways. Can you guys point me to a good signal amp for multiple outlets.

I know getting 13 and 8 with this antenna will be a long shot but I thought I would cut my teeth with this antenna and then upgrade to something like THIS (http://www.amazon.com/Antennacraft-85in-Antenna-High-Band-Range/dp/B003EB03OK/ref=lh_ni_t).

Regards,

RTROSE

As hot as the Channel Master 7777 is, you should be able to split it 3 ways with no distribution amp. At the my lake place, I have a 3 way splitter on a less powerful preamp and it works great. Just be sure to put the splitter on the "to tv output".

Central Indiana weather was much different today, March 12, in 1991, as a major and destructive ice storm hit areas just north of Indy, including Lafayette, Frankfort and Kokomo. So much ice accumulated on the 500 ft. broadcast tower for WSHW (FM), Frankfort, located in Middle Fork (Clinton Co.) that it fell to the ground. Not far away, the tower for WLFI-TV, Lafayette, located just south of Rossville (Clinton Co.) survived the thick accumulation of ice. Most of downtown Frankfort was without electric service for 6-7 days.

http://www.crrel.usace.army.mil/library/conferencepapers/Mulherin_Atmos_Icing.pdf

WDNI-CD 19, Indianapolis, has been off the air since Friday morning.

If you grew up in or near Indy in the 60s/70s, you'll remember how rock radio transitioned from AM (WIBC-1070 to WIFE-1310) to FM (WNAP-93.1). WFYI-TV 20.1 will show “Naptown Rock Radio Wars” at 9pm on Thursday, April 19. Here’s the promo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZbReDv-DQ&feature=youtu.be

Steve

I saw the longer version of this when it played a few shows at the IMAX. It will bring back many memories and I also learned a few new things as well. Highly recommended.

If you grew up in or near Indy in the 60s/70s, you'll remember how rock radio transitioned from AM (WIBC-1070 to WIFE-1310) to FM (WNAP-93.1). WFYI-TV 20.1 will show “Naptown Rock Radio Wars” at 9pm on Thursday, April 19. Here’s the promo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZbReDv-DQ&feature=youtu.be

Steve
What great memories I have of those "simpler times." Thanks for the heads up Steve. Can't wait!!

What great memories I have of those "simpler times." Thanks for the heads up Steve. Can't wait!!

The DVR is set. Counting down the days.

If you grew up in or near Indy in the 60s/70s, you'll remember how rock radio transitioned from AM (WIBC-1070 to WIFE-1310) to FM (WNAP-93.1). WFYI-TV 20.1 will show “Naptown Rock Radio Wars” at 9pm on Thursday, April 19. Here’s the promo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZbReDv-DQ&feature=youtu.be

Steve

Thanks Steve!

CW_epg is 'locked and loaded' .... Looking forward to a great show. :D

WHMB-DT was off the air briefly yesterday morning and now it is off the air again this morning. I called the station and was told by a phone receptionist that it is scheduled to be back on the air by 6 p.m. today on its new channel and with a higher ERP. Engineers are in the process of switching the station's RF channel from 16 to 20 and increasing the power from 163 kW (DA) @ 302 m. to 530 kW @ 297 m. The station has been holding a CP to make this change.
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=37102

WHMB-DT was off the air briefly yesterday morning and now it is off the air again this morning. I called the station and was told by a phone receptionist that it is scheduled to be back on the air by 6 p.m. today on its new channel and with a higher ERP. Engineers are in the process of switching the station's RF channel from 16 to 20 and increasing the power from 163 kW (DA) @ 302 m. to 530 kW @ 297 m. The station has been holding a CP to make this change.
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=37102
One of their techs. said everything was set for the SkyCrane last week so station made announcements and notifications except SkyCrane got rescheduled causing much confusion.

WHMB-DT was off the air briefly yesterday morning and now it is off the air again this morning. I called the station and was told by a phone receptionist that it is scheduled to be back on the air by 6 p.m. today on its new channel and with a higher ERP. Engineers are in the process of switching the station's RF channel from 16 to 20 and increasing the power from 163 kW (DA) @ 302 m. to 530 kW @ 297 m. The station has been holding a CP to make this change.
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=37102

So it looks like one OTA station is not all that anxious to sell their spectrum....

So it looks like one OTA station is not all that anxious to sell their spectrum....

6 p.m. today.....Well, I guess that wasn't set in stone. :D
Perhaps they're in the "try this" phase of the operation, and we'll soon see some progress. :)

Edit:
4 hrs past due....Not looking good for morning TV.
Anyone know if they finished the new antenna install?

Just tried TSReaderLite....got signal....hurray!

North side of Bloomington:
40 --> strong before on 16
40 --> strong now on 20
I think they're still working on it, because the two channels are showing the same thing. They both look very good.

Ya..... Dropped out again just before 11am. :(

Back again sometime before 1pm. .....Fingers crossed...:)

Hi all,

I've been lurking a while and finally decided to post. I'm half looking for advice and half providing some feedback on some things that are working for me right now. I currently live south of Bloomington, near Harrodsburg. I think my elevation is about 260m, but I'm not certain on that front. Because I live far out, I decided to cut the cord and try OTA. I built a DB8 antenna using instructions I found on instructables.com, but had mediocre results (probably because I didn't/don't know what I'm doing and it's housed in the attic). I then moved on to a great antenna, for the cost, that I found on monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=7976&seq=1&format=2).

That little sucker, pointed to the SSE, has been great! I'm able to get most Indy stations and just about all the Louisville stations I need. It does come with a low noise amplifier and I finally hooked it up last night as close as I could to the little antenna in the attic, instead of hooking it up in the living room. That did seem to help, as we now get WHAS out of Louisville in the bedroom. I'd guess that the antenna is about 35-40 feet off the ground in the attic and there's no window pointing to the south in the attic. So, if anyone is looking for a cheap, small antenna, that model may just be what you need (though, maybe my house is in such a spot that I'm lucky). And I believe their return policy and customer service is outstanding.

Having said all that, I still have some issues from time to time, but again, I just moved that little cheap low noise amplifier that came with it up to the attic and that may help considerably. Anything I should consider or change? A Channel Master preamp or Antennacraft HBU 55? Maybe get off my butt and strap those 2 antennas I made from instructables.com together properly and pair them with a Channel Master preamp (if I even made them right :D)? Any omnidirectional antenna that would help with receiving signals from Terre Haute, Indy and Louisville? See below for my TV signal analysis from TV Fool.

TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dde65f8b0eaeda8)

Anyone else experiencing issues about WXIN-DT's OTA signal dropping out in Marion?

Until Saturday, WXIN's signal was really good in the daytime and now today, have not been able to watch at all with poor reception in Marion. I watched bits and pieces of American Idol last night and very concerned that I might not be able to watch the American Idol results tonight.

I am within LOS of the WXIN tower and the signal is always in and out for me. The signal seems to greatly flex from aroung 70% to 100%.

WXIN signal is jumping all over this afternoon. It is unwatchable and I can see the tower out the window.

Big, if you can see the tower, you might actually have too MUCH signal coming into your tuner. People do not understand that (especially) with digital signals, too high of signal levels can actually cause just as many problems as too little. And sometime adding an amp only causes MORE problems for OTA signals, than what (they think) it solves. And, if you are getting (strong) multi-path signals, that only makes the problem(s) even WORSE then.

WXIN signal is jumping all over this afternoon. It is unwatchable and I can see the tower out the window.

If you can see the tower, I'll bet you can get it with a paper clip stuck in the input jack on the TV. I can get WFIU here in Bloomington that way.
I would guess you're just getting way too much signal.
WXIN is rock solid here in Bloomington.

Mods: apologizies if this needs to be moved or deleted.
Everyone: feel free to flag if I missed something.

Anyway, I have no need for my set top box anymore. It's a really high quality unit (or, at least, it WAS 5 years ago...). However, I can't see any completed listings for it on eBay, and have absolutely no idea the best place to sell it. Anyone aware of a decent place in Indy I might get some value out of it? Or just put it up on eBay and hope someone bites?