Originally posted by goldrich
Wil,

I don't have any problems with WTTV-DT 53 and WXIN-DT 45, but I have been seeing a blank screen with my Samsung SIR-T151 on WTTK-DT 54, subchannel 1, which offers WTTV programming. See my earlier post near the top of page 25. What brand and model of digital tuner are you using? Thanks.

Have you tried unplugging your tuner, waiting a few minutes and then plugging it in again? Let it reset and see if that makes any difference.

Steve

Well, it seemed to be resolved a few hours after I posted. I am using the DISH Network Model 6000 receiver. I tried everything with it to see if it would work. Unplugging, removing and reinserting the smart card, rescanning the channels, etc.

Originally posted by PFC
Goldrich,



If I could just get Brighthouse to add ESPN HD (by Sunday night's Colts game, if its not too much trouble)

As I understand the situation with ESPN, they charge the distributor, whether it be cable or satellite, for their HD service. This, of course, gets passed on to the subscriber. I personally have D* service, and love having the HD channels, especially ESPN-HD, even though I have to pay 10.99 extra per month.

In your situation, though, I would rather wait on ESPN-HD, and not have to pay any extra for the rest of my HD service. They don't produce a whole lot of HD programming, though what they do looks really good. The upconverted stuff looks pretty good, too, but I could live without it until they start producing more games, SportsCenter, etc. in HD.

bakem

With the start of the new season, I have been watching a few of NBC's HD shows on WTHR. I see that they still evidently don't have the equipment and/or talent to do local inserts during HD shows. We still have the "peacock on display". That really gets boring after a few seconds. At least CBS had a nicely done HD promo!

Another thing, I noticed on Wednesday night that the lip sync was noticeably off. I sent a note to WTHR via their web site, but haven't received a reply. A few months ago, I conversed with one of their engineering types on another issue, but haven't heard anything on this.

Anyone had any luck talking with WTHR about these issues?

Ken

Originally posted by Gthompson
Just an FYI for everyone. I have Insight Cable out of Noblesville (I live in the Greenfield area) and they turned on ESPNHD, Bravo HD+, HDNET, HDNET Movies, and DiscoveryHD. All for 7.99 a month. That gives me WRTV, WISH, WFYI, HBOHD, SHOHD and the channels listed above in High Definition. I highly recommend them for HD service if you are so inclined.

Greg

I live in Fishers and currently receive Insight Cable HD service. I received the digital HD set top box in the spring. When it was first hooked up, I received four stations: ABC, CBS, SHOWTIME, and HBO. All this for the nominal fee of $2 / month for the additional cable box. I still need my original digital cable box to tune to the other digital cable stations.

Lately, I've noticed channels come and go for brief periods. For a few months, NBC Shopping was on. Most recently, Bravo HD, Discovery HD Theatre, and PBS have been added. Lemme tune to the guide so I can give the stations....

WHOA! Totally new guide format on Insight Digital! Anyway, here is the HD channel run down:

750 - HBO HD
751 - SHOWTIME HD
760 - CBS (WISH)
762 - ABC (WRTV)
764 - PBS (switches between several PBS feeds, currently WHYY)
774 - BRAVO
775 - ESPN (black screen on my receiver)
776 - DISC
777 - HDNT (black screen)
778 - HDMV (black screen)

I'm not sure why there is a price difference between Greg's service and mine. That may explain why 775, 777, and 778 are blank though. Anyone else in this area with Insight service seeing different results?

Originally posted by KBandy
With the start of the new season, I have been watching a few of NBC's HD shows on WTHR. I see that they still evidently don't have the equipment and/or talent to do local inserts during HD shows. We still have the "peacock on display". That really gets boring after a few seconds. At least CBS had a nicely done HD promo!

Another thing, I noticed on Wednesday night that the lip sync was noticeably off. I sent a note to WTHR via their web site, but haven't received a reply. A few months ago, I conversed with one of their engineering types on another issue, but haven't heard anything on this.

Anyone had any luck talking with WTHR about these issues?

Ken


Ken,

I've noticed these items, too. The lack of local inserts during HD shows might change later in October when Daylight Saving Time goes away and the local stations don't have to tape delay the programs.

The lip sync situation with WTHR and NBC does seem to be a chronic problem. Also, there is another problem with WTHR-DT's HD programs that really bothers me. I brought it up last year and at least one other viewer agreed with me. That is the subtle, but almost constant shifting of background colors. It's like someone is playing with the tint control. I only notice this on HD programs, not on SD programs. I never see this problem on any other channel.

I'll forward our posts to Steve Hicks at WTHR.

Steve

Yes! I've noticed all these problems as well. I'm a newcomer to the HD world as I just got an HD television and an OTA receiver a couple weeks ago. I sat down last night to watch West Wing on WTHR-DT last night and was totally distracted by both of those problems. Lip-sync, which is always distracting and the slight shifting of colors. It would only change to a different color scheme for a second and then flash back, but it was totally annoying. Anyway I couldn't stand it anymore and switched over to a SD version of the show. It was definitely not as good a picture, but the voices matched the lips and the color remained constant. I hope they can fix this, as alot of my favorite shows are on NBC in HD. I was looking forward to ER tonight, but now I'm a bit worried about it.

I have also noticed the lip sync and color shifting problems mentioned here in regards to WTHR-DT. It's very annoying and it's not something I want people to see when I demo HD material. Hopefully someone at WTHR can work on this issue.

Here's an issue I've been having lately. I seem to have a problem with multipath when I'm watching WRTV-DT. The majority of the time the signal is good with little fluctuation and no dropouts. Occasionally, I have problems where the signal is not quite as good and there is a lot of fluctuation which produces a lot of dropouts (every 2-5 minutes). I usually don't have any problems when there are clouds in the sky or it is overcast. (It has been working great today and yesterday and the skies have been really clear, so who knows.) I have a Channel Master 3018 (combo UHF/VHF from Lowes with no amp or preamp) mounted about 7 feet above my roof (about 25-30 feet above ground). My STB is the Zenith HD-SAT520. The signal meter on this unit is divided into 3 sections (Poor, Normal, Good). I have strong Good signal readings on virtually all channels (WISH, WTHR, WNDY, WXIN, and even WRTV-DT) except for WFYI and WHMB (these are both normally in the Normal/Good area). I do not have this problem on ANY of the other channels, only WRTV-DT. I don't think this STB gives any specific signal strength values for OTA, only for D*.

I replaced our old Radio Shack UHF/VHF with my current one. The signals on all channels were "stronger," but I still had the fluctuation/dropouts on WRTV-DT. I read that moving the antenna (side to side, up or down) a few feet or even inches can affect reception dramatically. So I used a longer pole (7 ft instead of 3-4 ft) to mount the antenna on, and this made a dramatic difference. Before I raised the antenna I would get dropouts quite frequently (75% of the time) whereas now I don't get them nearly as often (10-15% of the time and when I'm trying to watch MNF!). I thought about trying the Silver Sensor, but I doubt I'll be able to pick up all the stations as well as I can now. I live on the Southeast side of Indy very close to Southport Rd. and I-65 which would put me about 20 miles away from the majority of the transmitters. I've done a ton of research on this topic (AVS, the web, etc), and I haven't found any suggestions/ideas that are super specific. I believe my options are to raise the antenna a little higher, change the location where the antenna is mounted, try the Silver Sensor, or just deal with it. I am having several people over to watch the Colts on MNF, and I wanted to have this problem resolved by then. Any ideas, suggestions, experiences with multipath, experiences with the Silver Sensor are welcome and appreciated.

I forgot to add that this was my first post (now second), but I've been lurking here for about 4 months. The information provided in this thread and throughout the entire forum has been extremely valuable during my recent entry into the HD world. I think it is especially cool that Tom Weber from WISH provides such good info and quick responses to concerns we have. I will continue to look forward to being a part of this forum.

Chris

Chris,

Specific suggestions would be almost impossible because every receiving station is site specific.The best remedy,if the problem is multipath,would be the biggest pain...move the antenna laterally to change the multipath patterns.Other things to try would be an adjustable attenuator from RS,and,if it's an intermod problem caused by a VHF channel or FM,get one of those cheap VHF/UHF splitter/combiners and split out the UHF,then feed that to the receiver.Of course,you'll lose DT-9 if you do that,but it would be something to try.You could always figure a way to recombine it later.

I did have the opportunity to use a SS in Indy on the southside,pointed north out a basement window at ground level.Actually it worked pretty well,but did have some drops using an RCA DTC-100(not very good by todays' standards) so you might try one.It's an amazing antenna for its size.

Experimentation is the keyword to OTA success.

Greg B

Anyone else having problems with ABC/WRTV's HD shows lately? I'm getting lots of deep loud audio pops like the power to my sub is being cycled. Sometimes video breaks up or completely disappears too. Seems to happen more towards the beginning and end of shows. My signal strength is typically 90-100% when this is happening. I've noticed it on Threat Matrix (very cool show btw), Mon. Night Football, and 8 Simple Rules the past week or so.

Originally posted by kwerner
Anyone else having problems with ABC/WRTV's HD shows lately?

Yes, I noticed the same thing last night on Threat Matrix. I switched to analog for a while, even. I did notice something kind of interesting, though. I did split screen for a while between analog and digital broadcast feeds of the show. While doing this, I noticed that on the network feed of the show and national commercials, the analog lagged behind the digital. However, on local commercial inserts, the digital lagged behind the analog! Kind of interesting, I thought.

Originally posted by kwerner
Anyone else having problems with ABC/WRTV's HD shows lately?

Me too. The wife was watching The Bachelor the other night (don't ask), and kept complaining that the picture was breaking up. Seemed to happen every 5 minutes or so.

bakem

Originally posted by kwerner
Anyone else having problems with ABC/WRTV's HD shows lately? I'm getting lots of deep loud audio pops like the power to my sub is being cycled. Sometimes video breaks up or completely disappears too. Seems to happen more towards the beginning and end of shows. My signal strength is typically 90-100% when this is happening. I've noticed it on Threat Matrix (very cool show btw), Mon. Night Football, and 8 Simple Rules the past week or so.


I am having the same problems here in Bloomington with signals of 96% or better.

What kind of DTV tuners are you guys using that are having trouble with WRTV HDTV? Mine is Philips DSHD800 (same as Hughes E86). I contacted WRTV, hopefully they will start reading this thread and commenting.

Please contact WRTV via their website as well: http://www.theindychannel.com/rtv6/112069/detail.html . Let them know which shows, your location, signal strength, which tuner, and your antenna setup.

Threat Matrix was awesome last night, a little more realistic IMO.

Thanks!

Yesterday I forwarded our posts concerning WTHR-DT to engineer Steve Hicks. This morning I received this friendly reply from Steve. Thanks...................................................... .............................................
>>>>>>>

Steve,

Thanks for this info. I have forwarded it on to the C E and Dir. of Eng. I was not aware of these problems. The audio lip sync can be adjusted and I will have the operators start checking when we switch from SD (up converted) to HD. the color problem is new to me, the monitor we have in MC is five years old if not older, has a terrible 'blue' problem and is only good for verification 46 is on the air, I have been asking for a new monitor for half a year of longer. I will ask the operators to go back in the racks and see if they detect any pattern to give the maintenance engs a place to start.

As far as filling the station breaks, i.e. the peacock floating graphics, right now the Corp policy is we can not sell it locally, we will stay with NBC, the net has offered NOTHING. We, during the Daylight Savings time period, take the eastern time zone feed, delay it by a hour and sell expanded commercial time so some of the SD breaks are not airing at the exact same time as HD programming. During the winter hours this is an option to switch in local break but station management prefer the SD (money) breaks air properly and leave HD run. Right now, we switch the HD programming with a lap top PC between our limited sources.

Well there is some info and I appreciate your concerns and questions and hope we can address these issues. Do not hesitate to share and ask in the future. Sorry this was so long.

Steve

............................................................ ...................................................

Originally posted by kwerner
Anyone else having problems with ABC/WRTV's HD shows lately? I'm getting lots of deep loud audio pops like the power to my sub is being cycled. Sometimes video breaks up or completely disappears too. Seems to happen more towards the beginning and end of shows. My signal strength is typically 90-100% when this is happening. I've noticed it on Threat Matrix (very cool show btw), Mon. Night Football, and 8 Simple Rules the past week or so.


I just gave up watching the movie "Remember The Titans" on WRTV-DT after numerous breakups, blackouts, etc. along with the loud audio cracks. Sometimes watching local DTV is like testing your personal frustration level.

Steve

Following my experience last evening with WRTV-DT and after reading a number of previous posts relating to the same experiences with WRTV-DT, it looks like it is time to send an email to the station.

I've been doing some snooping through FCC filings this morning...............

Due to some technical changes to its application, WTBU-DT 44, Indy (Butler University) has filed for another 6-month extension, which would give them until Feb. 20, 2004 to sign on. Extension approved.

WIPB-DT 52, Muncie, IN (Ball State University) has filed for a second 6-month extension. Long story on this one. Here's my review on this one. Early on, it was believed the digital antenna could be mounted on the analog tower, a 500-foot self-supporting tower built in 1953 for WLBC-49. Then another study concluded that it would not support the digital antenna even with structural improvements and the removal of some older antennas on the tower. New land was found about 4 miles away for a new tower but at a height of over 800 feet. Since then there apparently have been a number of delays getting the site and the height of the proposed new tower approved by the FAA. So more time is needed in getting this project completed. The last extension request did mention the university has already installed new digital equipment in its master control. If the new extension is approved by the FCC, the station would have until May 23, 2004 to sign on.

Steve

Originally posted by Dr_Jones
I live in Fishers and currently receive Insight Cable HD service. I received the digital HD set top box in the spring. When it was first hooked up, I received four stations: ABC, CBS, SHOWTIME, and HBO. All this for the nominal fee of $2 / month for the additional cable box. I still need my original digital cable box to tune to the other digital cable stations.

Lately, I've noticed channels come and go for brief periods. For a few months, NBC Shopping was on. Most recently, Bravo HD, Discovery HD Theatre, and PBS have been added. Lemme tune to the guide so I can give the stations....

WHOA! Totally new guide format on Insight Digital! Anyway, here is the HD channel run down:

750 - HBO HD
751 - SHOWTIME HD
760 - CBS (WISH)
762 - ABC (WRTV)
764 - PBS (switches between several PBS feeds, currently WHYY)
774 - BRAVO
775 - ESPN (black screen on my receiver)
776 - DISC
777 - HDNT (black screen)
778 - HDMV (black screen)

I'm not sure why there is a price difference between Greg's service and mine. That may explain why 775, 777, and 778 are blank though. Anyone else in this area with Insight service seeing different results?


Yup thats what the 7.99 a month is for. EspnHD, HDNET, HDNET Movies, and DiscoveryHD.

Greg

I previously posted that on Brighthouse in Indy (Broadripple area) I received HBO East and West, (Showtime East and West are available) CBS and PBS, but not Discovery HD. For what ever reason, Discovery Hd appeared this weekend.

Now, If I can just get ABC, NBC and ESPN HD, I would be happy.

Regarding the recent problems with WRTV-DT... I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but last night just after 8:30, the problem began occurring more frequently than I've ever seen it. Made the digital channel completely unwatchable. Just as I was about to switch to analog 6, someone in master control apparently manually switched 25 back to the upconverted SD feed that usually airs outside of prime time.

They're apparently aware of the problem and are able to see it occur through whatever means they're using to monitor the signal on 25.

On another note, a question for Tom Weber regarding WISH-DT... Have you had any luck upgrading the PSIP? The STB reboots at our house have gotten worse, to the point we avoid channel-surfing through WISH.

DirectorBoy,

I sent an email to Paul Roehm at WRTV onl Monday about these recent problems with WRTV-DT 25. He did respond by saying that the engineers would be watching the monitor much closer and your post about what you saw last night seems to back this up. I did watch most of Monday Night Football and I didn't see any problems, a complete turnaround from what I saw Saturday night until I had to turn it off.

Steve

I had to watch the Alias season premiere mostly from DirecTV because of audio/video breaking up :-( Wasn't the "normal" loud deep pops this time at least.

Probably next week - busy prepping for the live parade broadcast on Saturday.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

This afternoon I received this update from Steve Hicks at WTHR pertaining to the issues we've discussed recently about WTHR-DT 46..........................


Steve,

"We have some verification from Engs at NBC that there are some lip sync problems with the HD transmissions on the networks end, the chroma or color 'smear' or tearing was a new one on them but we believe this problem is original to them as well. They have admitted they have had these concerns from other parts of the country.

In true NBC fashion they are telling us that they are working with the production studios to get a higher quality in HD, translation, they are blaming them for these things.

You may see if any other viewers from other markets can verify this, NBC mentioned Nashville, Kanas City, Detroit and Devener as others who have cited this problem.

that is it for now, keep in touch."

Steve

Okay... I've been wrestling for the past two days with my reception of WTTV-DT 53. It wasn't until tonight that I realized the interference/dropouts I'm experiencing are happening at almost a perfect five- to six-second interval, with each dropout lasting about a second. The image freezes, then resumes, sometimes with a bit of pixelization. I've never had interference with 53 in the form of freezes before, and then when I noticed the perfect pattern, I knew something unusual was going on.

But what? Has anyone else had trouble with 53 lately? Anyone have any clue what would cause such a perfect pattern of dropouts? I'm guessing (hoping) the problem isn't on my end, especially since it happens regardless of antenna orientation.

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Probably next week - busy prepping for the live parade broadcast on Saturday.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

I haven't checked this board in a while and didn't watch much HDTV over the summer but I have been watching the new season of CSI and so far all of the shows have had audio drop-outs throughout the show. And last night there was no audio coming from the left (except during one commercial). Thanks!

Roger

Same here on the audio on channel 8

Brad

I've been reading for a while anticipating an HD tuner purchase. It's good to see such local helpful advice.

I set up my Samsung T351 with a silver sensor tonight and am very happy. I'm on the westside about 11 miles from most of the stations.

I did notice the audio sync problems with WTHR tonight also. I'm very impressed thus far though and can't wait to watch some HD football tomorrow.

BRADH or anyone near Terre Haute,

I just returned from camping at McCormick's Creek State Park near Spencer. While there I watched the Cubs on Fox affiliate WBAK-38, Terre Haute. In addition to ch. 38, WBAK's ID screen also kept showing "WBAK-DT." Is WBAK-DT 39 on the air? A few weeks ago this station filed for another extension with the FCC. The latest info shows that the filing was accepted but doesn't mention whether the extension has been approved.

Steve

I live about 3 miles west of Brad H in Spencer. I am down in a valley where Brad is on a hilltop. I have yet to pull in 39.1 and check for it regularly. pull in both 24.1, and 36.1 (10 & 2) from Terre Haute. Will let you know when I do.

I live in Bloomington and for those stations, I get 39.1 as a bouncing signal and 24.1 and 36.1 sometimes do start to show some signal, but not enough for my receiver to lock in on them. I think that all 3 are still running on partial power, waiting for new equipment/towers.

I've been having problems with 59.1 and 59.2 for a few weeks. While watching either 59.1 or 59.2 the picture will periodically break up then show the other channel for a couple seconds (audio and video) then break up and go back to correct channel. I've never encountered this problem on any other channel. I'm using a Sony HD-100.

Welcome to the forum Randy.
Steve I havent tried WBAK yet I will 10 and 2 are ok, I will give it a try.

Brad

I fixed the "no left channel" problem Friday at noon, so then the upconverter decided to barf on -some- sources. Rebooted it this morning when I came in.

I look at it this way - equipment keeps doing wierd stuff, they gotta keep me around <g>.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,
I understand the equipment weird stuff thing since I got similar issues in a different industry. Sure is changing my hair color though.

BTW, has CBS even hinted at maybe getting the aspect ratio right? I don't care about the comercials but it would be nice to have the shows correct. Stretching 4:3 to 16:9 sure isn't very flattering to the good looking ladies...

Aspect ratio is controlled here. Send opinions to:

programming@wishtv.com

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Les Auber
Stretching 4:3 to 16:9 sure isn't very flattering to the good looking ladies...

Depends on if you like thick women. :D

Originally posted by fgr41
Depends on if you like thick women. :D

Fair enough. Though I'm not sure making Catherine Zeta-Jones look like she should be playing lineman for the Colts is an improvement. Whatever I think we're rather off topic...

Per The Digital Bits website, Star Trek Enterprise was to be broadcast tonight in 1080i. No HDTV here on UPN23-1. It was even sponsored by "Zenith, the leaders in HDTV".:mad:

They don't have the HD time-shifter (UPN national
sends it HD only at X:00 EDT), just got this from them today...


Hello. Thanks for the email. WNDY will not have the
ability to air Enterprise and Jake 2.0 in HD until
October 29th, due to Indiana not observing the time
change like the rest of the U.S.

Beginning on 10/29 we will have our Wednesday lineup in true HD format. Thanks for watching UPN Indiana!

Has anyone been experiencing a fairly loud popping sound when watching WRTV-DT? It usually happens 4-5 times during the entire time MNF is on. It also occurs during the Disney movie on Saturday nights. I don't watch much on ABC except MNF, but I do occasionally check other programs that are in HD just to see how they look. I have noticed the occasional "pop" in the short time I tune in to these programs. I can't believe this is my problem as I have good signal strength on all channels and this only occurs on WRTV-DT. This has been happening the past few months, and I thought it would be a good idea to check with others in here. It doesn't seem to be a national problem as I have seen no complaints about this in the HDTV Programming forum.

P.S. Are they ever going to fix the lip sync and color/tint problem on NBC?

Originally posted by CsquaredIN
Has anyone been experiencing a fairly loud popping sound when watching WRTV-DT?
Yes, I've been having this problem the past few weeks, go back a couple pages in this thread... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2719944#post2719944

Please go to their website and complain so they know this is happening to more people... http://www.theindychannel.com/rtv6/112069/detail.html

Anyone else having problems with WISH-DT tonight? I usually get 75-80% signal strength here on the westside and tonight I'm getting nothing. All the other channels are working just fine.

No signal on WISH here in Fishers.

Ditto here in Greenfield. Both OTA and on Insight HD

Greg

Another Fisher location without OTA 8.1.

Greg,

How are the HD channels via Insight? I'm using DirecTV and have some interest in checking out Insight. I guess they still require two boxes and I would at least wait until it's one. I think the HD channel offerings are the same outside of Bravo.

Right now I pay $64 a month for Total Choice, Locals, HD Package with 3 receivers. I could drop DirecTV's locals but then my wife would kill me since the TiVo wouldn't be able to record the couple of shows she actually watches.

Looks like WISH-DT is back online.

I am thinking of checking out Comcast's HD channels. What HD channels do they have available? I am on the west side of Indy. Also what costs are involved?

Quality OK?

Thanks in advance

Ken

No WISH-DT in N.W. side (next to the Transmitter Tower). Bummer,


Thanks.

Originally posted by Charles R
Another Fisher location without OTA 8.1.

Greg,

How are the HD channels via Insight? I'm using DirecTV and have some interest in checking out Insight. I guess they still require two boxes and I would at least wait until it's one. I think the HD channel offerings are the same outside of Bravo.

Right now I pay $64 a month for Total Choice, Locals, HD Package with 3 receivers. I could drop DirecTV's locals but then my wife would kill me since the TiVo wouldn't be able to record the couple of shows she actually watches.

Insight's HD is good. I debated for a while to either get DirectTV or cable before I made my mind up on Insisght. You have to subscribe to Digital Cable to get HD, and you pay 2$ a month for the HD box and the following channels. HBO HD(If you subscribe to HBO), SHO HD (If you subscribe to Showtime), Bravo HD, CBS (WISH HD), ABC (WRTV HD), and PBS (Changes between WFYI and Another PBS. Cant remember thet Station). Then if you want to pay $7.99 a month you can get ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, HDNET, HDNET movies. I get everything but SHowtime, and Love it. If you count my Cable Modem service I pay ~$98 a month for everything. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Greg

Does anyone here use channel 53 to view WTTV-DT and/or WXIN-DT? For over two weeks now, 53 freezes (both audio and video) once every six seconds (give or take a second), with each freeze lasting one second.

Anyone have any idea what could cause such a perfect signal interruption pattern? Can anyone verify that 53 itself is fine? Thanks!

Mea culpa. Our normal modulator had a minor problem that got much worse when I tried to fix it yesterday afternoon. (Thanks, Murphy!)

Thought I had the loaner configured just fine by dinnertime. Some time in the evening it barfed bad, and it took me till midnight to be minimally satisfied that we could run while the original unit goes back to the factory.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

Last Nights CSI and Without a Trace were Repeats so I guess we can let you off the hook ! :D In all seriousness thanks for everything you do!

Greg

Originally posted by KBandy
I am thinking of checking out Comcast's HD channels. What HD channels do they have available? I am on the west side of Indy. Also what costs are involved?

Quality OK?

Thanks in advance

Ken

I currently have the Comcast HD offerings. The quality is good. I get ESPNHD, NBC, CBS, PBS, INHD, and INHD2 included. HBO and SHO are available as long as you subscribe. This is for an extra $5 dollars a month on top of the regular Digital Cable price. I haven't had any problems with the box or the service.

Why no HD on WRTV evening? I also get the popping sound.

Originally posted by Jim_Hunt
Why no HD on WRTV evening? I also get the popping sound. I emailed WRTV about the audio/video issue and they contacted me a couple of times. Once to tell me to check out last night's MNF since they would be using their backup system to see if the issue wouldn't be there. And it was fine for me last night during the game.

I haven't checked them out tonight.

Now RTV switched to 4:3 with no streching.

(FYI: I have been away from here for a while and there is a lot of stuff to read just in this thread. HDTV lives.)

Originally posted by Jim_Hunt
Now RTV switched to 4:3 with no streching.

(FYI: I have been away from here for a while and there is a lot of stuff to read just in this thread. HDTV lives.) That's interesting. When I emailed them to say MNF was fine I put in a vote for no stretching...

The frustration is getting unbearable....

Last night on WISH 8-1 CSI started out in SD. I called the station and left a message on the technical difficulties hot line and about 20 minutes later it switched to HD but with horrendous audio problems (drop-outs and echos).

Every time I flip on PBS 20-1 the HD video is flawless and the audio is perfect and sometimes even 5.1.

Originally posted by RogerB
The frustration is getting unbearable....

Last night on WISH 8-1 CSI started out in SD. I called the station and left a message on the technical difficulties hot line and about 20 minutes later it switched to HD but with horrendous audio problems (drop-outs and echos).

Every time I flip on PBS 20-1 the HD video is flawless and the audio is perfect and sometimes even 5.1.


RogerB,

Yes, a number of us know about the frustration level. I believe some of that frustration will subside starting Sunday, not only for DTV viewers but for the local DTV broadcasters, too. Daylight Saving Time ends this weekend, which means the local stations will no longer have to record and replay the network programs. This means the stations will be able to air the direct feed from the networks, which should minimize audio and video difficulties.

Also, as was discussed several months ago at this site, most of the audio/video breakups that occasionally occur on WXIN and WTTV should disappear when the stations move into their new facility, supposedly next month. Rick Poling pushed the company for extra equipment that should eliminate the problem..... :-)

As for additional HD broadcasts in this market, I read another post last week indicating that UPN has added a few HD programs to its lineup, and that WNDY-DT 32 will begin passing them along in HD starting Oct. 29.

Here's to less frustration, leading to more happy hours of viewing local HDTV!

Steve

I'll be happy when WRTV gets their problems straightened out. My two favorite shows (Alias & Threat Matrix) have been unbearable in HD due to these problems. Everyone keep emailing them if you are still having problems like me.

I'm unable to receive WNDY-DT 32 where I leave (Sheridan), but I am able to receive 23-1 which says its UPN 23. Am I going to be able to watch Enterprise in HD this coming Wednesday on 23-1?

I'm sure I'm going to have to invest in an outdoor antenna at some point, but I'm avoiding it as long as I can.

Thanks.

If you are seeing 23-1, that should be WNDY-DT and you should see HD when they air it. Your receiver "maps" the digital channel number over to their analog channel number and puts the "-1" so you know it's the digital broadcast. Their is probably a better technical word for "maps" but that's what I always call it.

What is the status of the Indy DTV stations as far as power goes (Who is at full power and who isn't)?

Of the ones that aren't (if any) is there any word on when they will be at full steam?

-AKH

Several of the Indy DTV's are at full power (per the FCC), including WRTV-DT 25 (898kW) and WXIN-DT 45 (700kW). WTHR-DT 46 has approval from the FCC to go to 1000kW but according to one of the engineers it is currently running around 700kW. WNDY-DT 32 (tower north of Noblesville, near Strawtown) is operating at 1000kW but has to operate with a fairly directional antenna. Most of the signal is aimed towards Indy and Marion, with very little signal to the west. Check out details on this station and others at www.fccinfo.com. On the first line, click tv, enter call letters and then submit.

Currently WTTV-DT 53 is operating with only 4kW but WTTV programming is available via WXIN-DT's subchannel.

Steve

MNF not in HD tonight on ABC

Some of you might have already received this email from Paul Roehm at WRTV, but if not, here goes........................................................ .......



HDTV info for Monday Night Football - Tonight, Monday 10/27/03:

Please note that "Monday Night Football" will not be produced in HDTV as originally scheduled for tonight. As a result of a change in event location, the game will not air in HDTV but will be digitally upconverted from ABC NY and fed on Telstar-5 Channel 12. This program will be digitally upconverted in a 4:3 aspect ratio.


Paul Roehm
WRTV, Indianapolis
paul_roehm@wrtv.com
(317) 269-1488

Thanks Paul,

I had read such in the HDTV Programming forum.

Colts at Miami in HD on CBS!!!

I am located near Lafayette, IN and have been getting my digital stations from Indy for well over a year now. I have been through two IRDs and been mostly happy with my DST3000 for close to a year now. A few weeks or months back, my receiver rebooted from loose of power or just decided it needed to or who knows what. Anyway I had to rescan for channels, found most, can't get 9 up here at all. Sort of bites because 11 isn't HD yet. Anyway, for the past few weeks, I only something like "local channel info" in my guide for all the digital stations except 11 (18 for Lafayette). I also had to go to the digital channel to have it remap. This worked on all except for 25-1. Now, 6-1 gives me nothing. Reading through I see several people with the 25-1 remap issue, but haven't seen others with the missing guide info. Did I miss something in my rescan? Are others getting the guide info? Seems odd that I use to get it and now I only get it from WLFI.

Any comments would be appreciated. Reception isn't a problem and signal is usually >70 for 25,45,46,11 9 and 20(or21) is usually <30

Thanks,

Rabbit

Did you enter an Indianapolis zip code (46060 is Noblesville, if you need one) for your Area 2 local provider, under the dish setup?

bakem

Worth a try, I didn't think about that. I am using my zip code for area 1 and a Lafayette zip for area 2. I'll post the results later. Worked without an Indy zip previously though. :confused:

Rabbit

Responding to an earlier post in this topic:

I have been having real problems recieving FOX 28 WSJV-DT with my new HDTV Reciever. I get excellent reception on all other south bend channels. I read earlier in this post that FOX28 of south Bend/Elkhart IN was only broadcasting digital signal at 10.5 kw insteat of the FCC mandated 671kw. I emailed the station's engineer, and recieved the following response which saved me alot of head banging about how to get a good lock on the FOX28 WSJV channel. I thought this would be useful information if other people decided to search for why they are having trouble in my area recieving this station.

"Thanks for your reply. We are not presently operating at the 10.5 kw level. We have temporary authority from the FCC to operate at a lower level. Even at this level we are having some reports as far away as 45 miles that viewers are receiving our signal. At any rate, plans are for an increase to the 10.5 kw level sometime in early to mid-2004. Thanks for your interest and your response."

So, if you are in South Bend/ Mishawaka/ Elkhart, I hope this helps you figure out why you might not be getting fox28 as well as the other digital stations in the area...

I used the zip code you posted and magic, the guide has the info again and 25-1 remaps to 6-1 perfectly. Thanks for the tip.

Rabbit

Glad to help. You're a bit luckier than I. My SAT-520 won't remap to 6-1. I get guide info for 6-1, but there's only the "no signal" message there. I've got to remember (and get my wife to remember, which is the hard part) to switch to 25-1.

bakem

Confirmed with WISH-DT>.....

Colts/Dolphins in HD!!! Sunday @ 1 p.m.

Hello everyone,
I'm currently subscribed to the InsightHD and I'm recieving
HBO
SHOWTIME
CBS
ABC
PBS-wtiu
I've seen some posts from people in the indy area that are also on insight and are recieving more channels. I've contacted Terry (Main contact at insight bloomington office) about the new channels and he says it's still in the works, but it seems strange that some insight customers are getting these channels already and not others.
Are there any other Bloomington insight customers that are getting more channels than me?
Another question I have is about an audio sync problem with WTIU. I called Brad Howard at WTIU and told him about my probelm. Is anyone else having lip sync problems with this Channel?
Thanks,

Zach

Zach,

I have noticed some lip sync problems with WTIU-DT when I've checked it out. I'm 65 miles from their tower but most evenings I can get a decent signal with my antenna setup. Locally, WFYI-DT had some lip sync problems, too, with their PBS feeds. The last I checked, WFYI-DT had corrected most of the problems but I recently noticed that WTIU could still use some tweaking, even though the sync problems were better than a few months ago.

Steve

Anyone hear anything about the audio popping issue on 25.1 (6.1)? I had to give up on Karen Sisco tonight.

Originally posted by Charles R
Anyone hear anything about the audio popping issue on 25.1 (6.1)? I had to give up on Karen Sisco tonight. I haven't, but I keep emailing wrtv and complaining. Everyone concerned should do the same. http://www.theindychannel.com/rtv6/112069/detail.html

Which receiver do you have?

Originally posted by kwerner
Which receiving do you have? I have the issue on two Sony HD receivers (SAT-HD200 and SAT-HD300) and two Sony AV Receivers (STR-DA4ES and STR-DA50ES).

Originally posted by kwerner
Which receiving do you have? I have the issue on two Sony HD receivers (SAT-HD200 and SAT-HD300) and two Sony AV Receivers (STR-DA4ES and STR-DA50ES).

Pertaining to the audio popping situation with WRTV-DT, I've only noticed it during HD programming from ABC. Paul Roehm at WRTV has a question for all who have heard the popping sound......................

"Is it only happening on HD ABC? Or are they having problems with upconverted too?" ....(Paul @ WRTV)

Any feedback relating to Paul's questions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Steve

Last night it was also during the upconverted (local) commercials during Karen Sisco.

For me it has not been during commercials I don't think. It does seem to happen more at beginning and end of show for me though.

WISH-DT is out for me and has been since last night I think. Others are having this problem also I assume? Hopefully things will be better by the Colts kickoff time tomorrow.

I watched most of the Florida vs Georgia game on 8.1 this afternoon. Outside of a couple of audio drop-outs all was well. Just checked and it's fine now...

I'm going to have to check my gear because I'm not getting 8.1 or 20.1 today.

We've changed a couple of setting here at WISH in an attempt at troubleshooting a problem. We've located the setting in question, but it seems to have negative consequences for others, so I'll go set it back, for the Colts game anyway. I'll also hook up the 5.1 audio, which I've temporarily disabled because we can never seem to remember to switch BACK to stereo at games' conclusions.

DaveYH, and fgr41, what DTV receivers do you have?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

Thanks for the update. Just a couple of thoughts as I have been watching the first half. I have two high-def sets (a Mits 55" and a 100" projector) and I have noticed a lot of pixel break-up during motion especially around the "moving" objects. This is noticeable on the Mits but really bothersome on the projector. I didn't check yesterday's college game out that much but it appeared to have the same issue possibly to a little lesser degree (or I didn't look as close).

Now for comparison I'm using the football game on HDNet yesterday and a repeat of the soccer game on HDnet on right now during this game. I don't see any of these break-ups (just an occasional blur around fast moving objects) so I don't think it's inherent in the displays.

I noticed you have 8.2, 8.3, and even 8.4 (though 8.4 doesn't appear active now) in use and I'm wondering if the bandwidth is too limited for the game or you feel it's coming from the network this way?

I appreciate any thoughts.

Charles

UPDATE: I just checked out ESPN-HD's GB vs MIN game via DirecTV and it doesn't have any pixel break-ups.

Tom,

I have a Sony HD-100 receiver which I just got back from having repaired. I am getting 97-100 signal strength for 45 and 46 and upper 80 to mid 90's on everything else but 8.1 (9 unmapped) is coming in at 0. I am located in Hendricks county just north of 36. I have also dropped my reception on 20.1 (aka 21) to the mid 40's. I'm wondering if my antenna moved.

Ok last night 8.1 and 20.1 came back to me. They are lowest on my signal meter but they are floating in the 70's which is doable. I get occasional drops but at least I'm getting them again.

I have been w/out my HD receiver for 2 weeks while it was in the shop and I am REALLY looking forward to watching Monday Night Football tonight.

Ok last night 8.1 and 20.1 came back to me.

Out of curiosity, when did they come back? Were you able to receive the Colts' Game?

Ken

I did try till late last evening, was busy durring the day so I don't know the exact time.

Anyone having problems getting Monday Night Football? On the NE side of Indy and no luck tonight.:(

MNF looks good up here in Kokomo. The first couple minutes during the "are you ready for some football" intro, the audio was cutting out for me every other second. Looks and sounds pretty good now.

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like the outside antenna might have moved on me?

MNF has been rock solid for me.

MNF looked ok. Switched back and forth between CSI Miami. Both signals looked great. I am without the benefit of a signal meter since my Mits 65869 does not have one, but all of the Indy Stations did appear to coming in Ok.
6/25.1 is the only ABC affiliate that I receive. I do get CBS from Indy/Terre Haute, NBC from both, and both the Indy and Trafalgar sights for Wttv & Wxin.

I watched about two hours of MNF on WRTV-DT and it looked quite good in HD last night. Also, as previously discussed, I didn't hear any popping or cracking in the audio. Hopefully that situation has been resolved.

Steve

I watched MNF last night on WRTV-DT OTA, and it looked/sounded good for the most part. I wasn't getting DD5.1 last night though as I have on all games in the past. Anybody get it in 5.1 last night?

Also, on the main side view they use when the plays are beginning/occurring, it seems like their were compression artifacts on the grass. I believe I've also heard it referred to as "swimming" or a sort of "shimmering." All other HD camera views look fine. I don't notice this on ESPN-HD on D* or WISH-DT OTA. Does anyone know how the bandwith is divided on WRTV-DT on 25-1 and 25-2?

I don't know if the extra channel is a problem,but their HD never
has looked as good as WAND in Decatur. WRTV seems to have some
serious problems with upconverted 480i that WAND does not have.

Doug McDonald

Is WFI HD broadcast down. I have my antenna pointed right at them and seem to be getting acceptable signal strength on the other Indy HD channels but can't pull in the PBS HD broadcast. I am also having problems with re-maping WRTV to 6-1 instead of the real channel. Again, the other stations don't seem to be a problem. I've even tried using various Indy zip codes and still no re-mapping. Any thoughts? How about a digital compatible signal booster?

Is WFI HD broadcast down. I have my antenna pointed right at them and seem to be getting acceptable signal strength on the other Indy HD channels but can't pull in the PBS HD broadcast. I am also having problems with re-maping WRTV to 6-1 instead of the real channel. Again, the other stations don't seem to be a problem. I've even tried using various Indy zip codes and still no re-maping. Any thoughts? How about a digital compatible signal booster?

Originally posted by IndplsGuy
Is WFI HD broadcast down. I have my antenna pointed right at them and seem to be getting acceptable signal strength on the other Indy HD channels but can't pull in the PBS HD broadcast. I am also having problems with re-maping WRTV to 6-1 instead of the real channel. Again, the other stations don't seem to be a problem. I've even tried using various Indy zip codes and still no re-maping. Any thoughts? How about a digital compatible signal booster?

I haven't noticed any problems with WFYI-DT's HD feed. WFYI-DT does operate with a very directional broadcast antenna. Its primary coverage areas are to the north and south, so if you are east or west of their tower on the northwest side of Indy, aiming your antenna could be very critical. I live less than 6 miles northeast of their tower and rotating my outside antenna just a few degrees can be the difference between a super strong signal and virtually nothing at all.

As for the remapping of WRTV-DT from ch. 25 to ch. 6, the topic has been discussed at this site several times. Nothing has been confirmed, but WRTV engineer Paul Roehm has explained that when the analog stations are turned off in a few years, WRTV-DT might not be able to move to channel 6, because channel 6 might not exist at that time. The FCC has been discussing the possibility of expanding the FM band, thus wiping out the frequencies used by TV stations on ch. 6. Once again, this is being discussed but has not been confirmed. But with this in mind I believe WRTV has at least for the time being decided to use ch. 25.

I hope this helps.

Steve

Not really on the topic, but I recently purchased a Radio shack 15-1880 indoor antenna to replace my "Recotron " one to hopefully receive more channels. I live around Stop 11 & Emerson, do not have a clue where the towers are , but I do receive 8.1 8.2 8.3 13.1 13.2 20.1 20.2 23.1 25.1 25.2
45.3 45.4 53.2 and 53.3 . They lock on great and very little dropouts. It sits on top of the tv. Looks ugly but works great.

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll try a little more tweaking on the aiming jus to make sure. So far I still don't pick up 20.1 or 20.2. I'll just have to do the climb in and out of the attic adjusting a few degrees until I get it. One question, is WFYI really broadcasting on 20.1 and 20.2 or is that a re-direction to those channels. I am thinking they really are on those channels. Is there a good amplifier out there that I should consider if I do end up finding the signal and it is weak?

One question, is WFYI really broadcasting on 20.1 and 20.2 or is that a re-direction to those channels.
WFYI is actually broadcasting on channel 21, remapping to 20-1, etc. For a good source to see the actual channels of stations, go to http://www.hdpictures.com/stations.htm

Enjoy!

Ken

My SAT-520HD doesn't re-map RTV from 25-1 to 6-1, which I can live with. That's not a big deal to me. However, I get no guide data on 25-1, just "Regular Schedule", while I get guide data for 6-1 in my guide. This tells me that RTV guide data comes from Directv. Why wouldn't they put guide data on both real and virtual channels, in case a station doesn't remap on all boxes? Does RTV send out PSIP data, and if so, would it matter to my box?

bakem

I tried an outdoor antenna amplifier tonight from RS. IT had a supposed gain of 26db in UHF and VHF. I re-adjusted the antenna after the hook-up to the point I was getting in the mid 90s on WTHR-HD. Still could not find the PBS HD channels. Must be a directional broadcast antenna they are using. I live on the far east side and have my antenna pointed right at theirs (evidenced by my signal strenth on 25, 8.1, 59.1, and 13.1) Why would a broadcaster use a directional antenna anyway unless they were worried about walking on someone elses signal?

That reminds me, I have an amp I would be willing to sell. I am using an identical one and have been very impressed with it. I pulled it off one time and put on a mast amp I got at Radio Shack for around $60 to compare. The radio shack amp was not even close to the power this other amp has.

http://www.pctusa.net/catv/amp_drop.shtml
model : PCT MA-1015-1P 5-40 / 54-1000 MHz Passive Return

It's made for CATV but seems to work wonders for HDTV OTA signals as well. I'm willing to sell it for the right offer.

Sorry if this is not the right place for this type of message but I figured I could help a fellow Indiana person out who was looking for a good amp.

WIPB-DT 52, Muncie

Earlier this week the FCC accepted an application from WIPB (Ball State U.) to modify its construction permit. The FCC must now approve the station's request to change its tower site and output power. WIPB-DT has plans to erect a new and taller tower south of its existing analog tower. The new tower will be around 800 feet as opposed to its current 500 foot tower. The request indicates the station wants to increase its output power from 45kW to 140kW. It looks as though it will be several months before WIPB-DT hits the air.

BTW, IndplsGuy, a number of TV stations use directional antennas as a means of protecting other stations on the same channel. At the present time, with both analog and digital stations on the air, the airwaves are quite crowded. For example, WFYI-DT 21 must protect analog station WPTA 21 (ABC), Fort Wayne. This is why WFYI-DT sends very little signal to the northeast. In the near future when the analog stations are turned off and a number of digital stations return to their old analog channels, the band won't be nearly as crowded and as a result should minimize the need for directional signals.

Steve

I just got off the phone with Terry from the Bloomington Insight office and he said that along with the new HD Channels coming out next month they will also be using a new all in one box. I've been expecting this for awhile, but I didn't expect them to use this particular box. It's a HD DVR Box. WOW!!! I won't be able to sleep until next month!

Zach

Zach,

I live in Spencer and insight has upgraded the cable over here for HD. I use OTA with my dtc100 for HD did he tell you what the new channels were.

Thanks
Brad

Brad,
I have the mailer at home that Insight sent out. ESPNHD, Discovery HD, and HDnet Movies for sure but I can't remember what else. It's a new package of 4 channels for 7.95 a month.
My brother lives in spencer too and was one of the first ones to get HD when insight did the upgrade. His HD hasn't worked most of the time so I'm pretty sure they're still working out the bugs over there.

Ugh, question :) I made a discovery last night on my Samsung SIR-TS160. There is an option under setup.....uh somewhere :) Anyway, you enter your zip code for 2 antenna settings. Sorry, can't remember the exact name of the setting. But it has a primary and secondary antenna section, and one for cable. It seems to allow you to get "guide" data for your over air channels, and cable channels. A guess because it somewhat works when I set the zip code. The cable channels don't give me any guide data, but the over air channels do, well some of them anyway :) BUT...my problem is, it also seems to add channels it thinks you should have, as I get a slew of other HD channels, and regular air channels, some that work...and some that don't. As I am going through the task od adding and removing channels...there is one or 2 of these new found over air HD channel that seems to "crash" my receiver. Sometimes it is 8-4 and sometimes it is 9-1. When I select one of these 2 channels and try to remove them, cuz I don't get a signal from them, my receiver clicks and restarts and "unsupported mode" displays on my Samsung HLN5065W. Any ideas?? The only way to get out of this is to remove the zip code from the primary and secondary settings, and reboot my receiver. :(

Bill

Anyone else getting no signal or a very weak one from 13.1? The rest of my channels are coming in normal...

Charles, I don't know about last evening, but this morning WTHR-DT 46 (13.1) is coming in fine. No problems here.

According to the CBS HD schedule, the Jets/Colts game will be the nationally televised HDTV game at 4 p.m. (WISH-DT).
............................................................ .......................................

"Sunday, November 16th
The NFL on CBS HDTV / DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket
- New York Jets at Indianapolis Colts, 4pm / Ch 70 "

Originally posted by meoge
I just got off the phone with Terry from the Bloomington Insight office and he said that along with the new HD Channels coming out next month they will also be using a new all in one box. I've been expecting this for awhile, but I didn't expect them to use this particular box. It's a HD DVR Box. WOW!!! I won't be able to sleep until next month!

Zach

I just had my HDTV through Insight hooked up on Friday in Anderson. I signed up for the extra channels as well. I believe it adds Discovery HD Theater, ESPN, HDnet, and HDnetMovies.

I know right now I am getting ABC, CBS, PBS, Bravo, DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, HDnet, and HDnet movies.

HBO and Showtime are also available in HD but I didn't suscribe to either yet.

I will have to sort through my first bill and figure out what the final monthly cost will be; right now I am getting a promotional price of 70 dollars a month WITH cable modem service. I thought this was a really good price. Before when I just had broadband it was 45 a month just for the modem. I am guessing right now that after the promotion is over is will be around 90 a month for everything I have now.


I think the extra channels are definitely worth the few extra dollars a month.

I was also asking them about the newer box because I hate having to use two seperate receivers. Hopefully we will all have them before 2004. At first they told me end of 03, but the installation guy (not sure how much he knows) said something about early 04.

Right now the only problems I have encountered is with the audio from HD programming fading in and out. Not sure what could be causing this. I am using the optical out on the Motorola 5100 receiver and quite frequently it will lose audio and then cut in and out.

I was curious if any of you with Insight were able to receive NBC in HD yet?

Originally posted by goldrich
Charles, I don't know about last evening, but this morning WTHR-DT 46 (13.1) is coming in fine. No problems here.

According to the CBS HD schedule, the Jets/Colts game will be the nationally televised HDTV game at 4 p.m. (WISH-DT).
............................................................ .......................................

"Sunday, November 16th
The NFL on CBS HDTV / DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket
- New York Jets at Indianapolis Colts, 4pm / Ch 70 " Thanks. Ends up I had to move my attic antenna a couple of inches. Maybe it moved a bit during the strong winds a few days ago since it's not mounted and right next to the air vents.

Regarding CBS right now I'm checking out the UAB vs UGA game in HD and it looks good until there is any fast motion which introduces a lot of pixels around the movement. I noticed the same thing last week or so (a previous posting brought up the same issue). I have viewed with two receivers and sets (or projectors) noticing the same effect with all. With it being really noticeable on my 100" screen.

I keep wondering if multi-casting is reducing the available bandwidth below what's required...

Need input as to reception of WISH DT-9 in the Connersville area.Just wondering what problems there might be with co-channel interference with WCPO-9 from Cincinnati.

Thanks,
GregB

Just a comment that echoes Garrett's -- I just got HDTV through Insight hooked up today in Lafayette. The box for HDTV is an extra $2/month which gives CBS, ABC, PBS, Bravo, and I signed up for the $7.95/mo for the extra channels (DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, HDnet, HDnetMovies). If I were a HBO or Showtime subscriber there would also be these in HD (but I'm not, and on asking, it will be quite a while before Starz goes HD)

The installation fee was zero, and it won't cost anything to swap the current two boxes for one, when it comes out.

The installer said they have a demo of the new box in their office, but still unsure when they'll be available for subscribers - his own guess was before end of year, but no guarantees. When it does come, as meoge said, it will include a 80MB Hard drive and act as a Digital Video Recorder. (He also said if I had a DVD burner that it should work with what I record at good although not perfect quality -- I didn't want to ask about details about that)

I thought I would also mention the outputs: the current box from Insight outputs a composite signal, 1080i, 780p and has a fallback for 4:3 that you can choose as 480i or 480p. I have a Samsung DLP (HLM5065) which has one composite input that only takes 480i/p, and two which take 1080i, 780p, and 480p -- so I'm glad that fallback wasn't 480i only! The box has two audio outputs, Coax and optical. That means digital output as well, which sounded very nice. If you don't have a cable, they test at installation time and let you either buy your own somewhere later, or can leave you the cable in place, for $15. (And I did need a second optical, so for convenience I took the latter option)

With the two box setup, the same cable remote works with both the SD and HD boxes, but the latter only handles channels 750 and up. So if you hit channel 4-8-enter on the remote, the SD box will change to 48 and the HD box will reject it, staying where it was. If you hit 7-6-4-enter, the HD will change to 764 while the SD will reject it (and stay at 48). If you hit 'channel up/down' then *both* boxes will respond. Depending on your specific TV and receiver setup, this probably means you have to swap the 'source' in two places to go between normal (SD) channels and the new HD channels: video (Component 3 vs Video 1 in my case) and on the audio (VCR1 or DVD vs TV/VBS optical in my case) The annoyance of this may help you get your wife to authorize a *programmable* universal remote :D The one-box setup will be a lot better in this regard.
To see the 'guide', you use the normal Insight Guide button and surf around those 750+ channel numbers.

The process was pretty painless (and the new channels turned on immediately), and the office and installer personnel friendly... I'm looking forward to the new box :cool:

Anyone have Insight with HD in Kokomo?

Anyone get last night's MNF in DD5.1? Or the 11/17 MNF game? It doesn't really matter to me, but I just thought it was odd for it to not be in 5.1 two weeks in a row. It looks like it must be a local (WRTV) issue since I haven't seen any posts regarding this in the main HDTV Programming area. I get WRTV OTA.

Originally posted by CsquaredIN
Anyone get last night's MNF in DD5.1? Or the 11/17 MNF game? It doesn't really matter to me, but I just thought it was odd for it to not be in 5.1 two weeks in a row. It looks like it must be a local (WRTV) issue since I haven't seen any posts regarding this in the main HDTV Programming area. I get WRTV OTA.


WRTV-DT is not currently broadcasting 5.1. Following our recent complaints to Paul Roehm at WRTV-DT about the loud pops and cracks in the audio, he sent this email...........................................

"We have been broadcasting 2.0 sound. I kind of believe that the problem lies with the way it is being fed to us, we ordered and received another hd demod (different brand), but it came in with the wrong options and I can't yet use it to test. I hope that in another couple of weeks I can get set up to test the 5.1 coming from ABC. If it is good from them, I will begin to look further at our internal configurations. But, we have been transmitting 5.1 for over 4 years now, and I am not sure that we actually have any internal problems."
............................................................ .....................

Hopefully things will be back to normal soon with 5.1 and no pops/cracks. Over the past few weeks I haven't heard any audio problems from WRTV-DT and I haven't seen any posts at this site.

Steve

Thanks Steve!

FYI..............I just read in the "HDTV Programming" section that the Patriots @ Colts game on Sunday will be the CBS HD game at 1 p.m. Enjoy your holiday weekend with HD! ..........WISH-DT 9

Steve

I did see that. Of course, the only Colts game in HD I really want to see will be played on the last Sunday in January. ;) GO COLTS! (& how about them Pacers!)

Why settle for the AFC Championship? (Super Bowl's on Feb 1st this season!)

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

First, thanks for keeping central Indiana updated on what WISH TV is providing in HDTV! I had a quick question about the Cowboys/Dolphins game that was broadcast on Thanksgiving. I live on the southside, between Southport and Greenwood. I am decoding the signal via a Samsung SIR-T351 OTA STB. Thursday was the first day I noticed it, but every time the game broke to a commercial break, I would get a single, loud pop. I am running 5.1 Dolby Digital, and the pop was heard in all five speakers. I did not hear a pop when the commercial break ended and went back to the game feed. Didn't know if you had any insight, but I had not experienced the popping noise before on previous games. Thanks again. Hope to see everyone at the game on Sunday. Do the blue.

Originally posted by Charis
Just a comment that echoes Garrett's -- I just got HDTV through Insight hooked up today in Lafayette.


Sounds identical to what I am receiving now. One question I had, does anyone know when Insight will be adding NBC to their HD channels? I was kind of surprised it was not there already.

Also, when I first change to the HD programming or first turn everything on (I almost always just leave the TV on the HD cable box now). It takes a few minutes for my sound to start working. Once it kicks in everything is great (5.1), but I was curious why it takes 2-3 minutes for the sound to start when I first start everything.

I am also considering adding HBO to receive more HD movies.

Also, if anyone is interested the IU basketball game is being shown on HDnet at 4pm today. I am pretty excited to finally start watching some basketball in HD. I believe later this season ESPN will start showing some of their weekly games in HD as well.

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Why settle for the AFC Championship? (Super Bowl's on Feb 1st this season!)

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Well, Feb 1 it is then. ;)

To anyone interested,
I just signed up for the new Insight HD Package in Bloomington. The channels will be available next Monday the 8th. They also will be putting in a new all in one box. The motorola 6208. Pricing is 12.95 a month for the box which is 2 dollars more than what I was paying for two boxes (I expected this). 7.95 for the new package (I expected this). and 7.45 a month for the DVR Service ( I DIDN'T EXPECT THIS). The price seems kind of steep for the DVR service. I hope this new box does some pretty amazing things for this extra cost. I asked if I could just continue to use my 2 boxes and still get the new channels and the customer rep. said no. Of course I wouldn't choose this option because I've been looking forward to being able to record HD for a long time and I love the whole idea of pausing live tv. I know other cities that Insight serves already have these new channels and they are still using two boxes so I guess they are just trying to sqeeze every penny out of us they can.

Zach

Just want to be sure we're talking about the same thing - if CBS switched from the game to a commercial, you'd get the black bars running down the sides, because they leave non-HD content in 4:3 aspect ratio. I don't really expect that there should have been a pop at these times.

On the other hand, when switching between the game and LOCAL commercials, WISH does the stretch (I'm doing what I'm told), but we don't have local 5.1 capability, so the Dolby decode/encode system has to switch gears, and a pop is possible.

Do you recall which type of commercial breaks caused the pop?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I just spoke with a customer service rep and she said that they would not be charging extra for the DVR service.

This is for everyone who lives in Central Indiana. Which station has the best PQ for their HD football, in your opinion? I have seen a majority of the pro and college games available on CBS (WISH), ABC (WRTV), and ESPN. I receive WISH and WRTV OTA and ESPN via DirecTV. I think WISH has the best picture, followed closely by ESPN, and ABC comes in a distant third. The main reason I think ABC is so far back is because there seems to be an awful lot of compression artifacts when looking at the football field during the main camera views (the view when the players are at the line of scrimmage). Virtually everyone in the main HDTV Programming forum finds there to be nothing wrong with MNF (many say it is spectacular), so this leads me to believe that it is a local issue. The main reason for my comments here is to find out why MNF looks so bad. I am not wowed when I watch MNF like I am when I watch football on the other stations. All comments, opinions, and thoughts are certainly welcome.

Steve (a.k.a. goldrich), would it be possible for you to find out from Paul Roehm at WRTV how much bandwidth is being allocated between 25-1 and 25-2? It seems like someone posted this information from WISH so it would be good to compare the two. Here is the info for WISH:

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Roughly, HD runs at 16 Mbits, LWS at 2 Mbits, and radar at 0.5 Mbits. Audio and PSIP round out the rest.

Yeah, I'm having an issue with an audio device. It got reset when the early morning maintenance guy came in and noticed it.

I need to upgrade PSIP soon anyway to deal with Closed Captioning. Perhaps that will help with the STB reboots. That's the first I had heard of that in several months.

Regards,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I also get WISH and WRTV OTA, and ESPN-HD via DirecTV. I totally agree that WISH HD football games, either NCAA or NFL, usually look stunning while ABCs and ESPNs look a bit worse. Not bad at all, just not a good as CBS.

I always assumed that its caused by the 1080i to 720p side conversion that my equipment does for ESPN and ABC (my display is 1080i only). I have never seen ESPN or ABC HD football on 720p native equipment though to compare.

Steve

I view HDTV via a projector and a RPTV both with more or less the same receiver (Sony HD200 and HD300). For me 1080i wins on both sets as the image is a little smoother (more detailed) with HDNet (via DirecTV) the best.

Locally, 8.1 looks great at times though I notice pixel break-up with a lot of motion. Especially on the 100" projector image. I do not see this via HDNet so I do not think it's within my system. I also see this same break-up to a lesser degree on the 55" set.

Both channels with 720p look a little sharper (on the 55" set) without as much fine detail. Which 720p channel looks best varies by so many factors I can't really say one is better than the other.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CsquaredIN

Steve (a.k.a. goldrich), would it be possible for you to find out from Paul Roehm at WRTV how much bandwidth is being allocated between 25-1 and 25-2?
............................................................ ..............

I just received this reply from Paul Roehm at WRTV-DT...........................


25.1 - 15mb/s (includes 384kb audio)
25.2 - 4.2mb/s (includes 384kb audio)
PSIP et. al. .19mb/s
(PSIP up beginning today. Only populated on 25.2. I will have to write some software for getting guide data onto 25.1)

480i encoder doesn't want to work well below 4mb/s The new PSIP generator will show a pie chart of how much is actually being used in each stream on a dynamic basis. 720p is not occupying its full 15 and may be bumped up.

p:

Thanks for checking on that Steve. It's greatly appreciated. Hopefully they'll bump up the 720p to the full 15mb/s. I'm sure every bit of bandwidth helps for HD so it's too bad their 480i encoder doesn't work well below 4mb/s. I'll be looking forward to hearing updates on any bandwidth changes and the DD5.1 issue.

swegrzyn and Charles R, thanks for your posts as well. Has anyone else noticed what I've been seeing? If not, see if you notice it during the next MNF game. Just look at the grass/turf when the players are at the line of scrimmage before a play starts, and see if you notice any compression. I don't mean to run this issue into the ground, but I just wanted to get a wide variety of views.

Chris

WXIN/WTTV Moving to New Facility


I received an update from Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV about their move to their new facility near 465 and W. 71st St., and Rick included some info about FOX going HD next year.............................................



"WXIN went on the air from the new building Dec. 2 at 11PM."

"FOX-HD happens next fall, 720p. Unfortunately, since they haven't told us
how they are going to do this yet, nothing was incorporated into the new
building to accomodate it, per se. We are changing out our microwave
systems so we can separate the DT streams when FOX changes next fall.".......................................................

"Give me a few days before you complain about the audio levels on WXIN or WXIN-DT. They're all screwed up right now. It helps to be able to set
stuff up ahead of time, but you can't if you have to move equipment from the old place to the new and don't get any sign-off time to calibrate stuff. Oh well. Hopefully by Monday I'll have it straightened out."

"Yeah we're real busy right now. As I said, WXIN is in the new building and
the debugging has begun. But, at the same time, I also need to get ready to move WTTV in two weeks."

Rick

............................................................ .................................................

Thanks to Rick Poling for the update. Good luck and best wishes in your new facility!!..........Steve

MNF was in DD5.1 for about the first 10-15 minutes of the game, but then it disappeared and didn't return. Anyone else notice this? Steve, any news on the DD5.1 and/or the bandwidth allocation for HD from WRTV? (Paul Roehm mentioned that they might bump up the bandwith for the 720p.) Just curious!

Originally posted by goldrich
"FOX-HD happens next fall, 720p. Unfortunately, since they haven't told us
how they are going to do this yet, nothing was incorporated into the new
building to accomodate it, per se. We are changing out our microwave
systems so we can separate the DT streams when FOX changes next fall.".......................................................

I assume that's also why they've stopped feeding the HD feeds for either fox or wb for the last few days. But is that just a temporary thing, or are they not going to broadcast any HD content until they've got WB and FOX on different trasnport streams? That might be awhile... I'd like to at least see them go back to HD WB until that's ready to go.

Digital WTHR (Channel 13) just showed up on my cable (Brighthouse). Unfortunately, for the HD programs, there is an awful delay in the sound track. Am I the only one experiencing this in Indy?

Digital WTHR (Channel 13) just showed up on my cable (Brighthouse). Unfortunately, for the HD programs, there is an awful delay in the sound track. Am I the only one experiencing this in Indy?

No, you are not. The problem is not with your cable. I believe it's a network problem (but I can't swear that it's not a WTHR thing).

Originally posted by PFC
Digital WTHR (Channel 13) just showed up on my cable (Brighthouse). Unfortunately, for the HD programs, there is an awful delay in the sound track. Am I the only one experiencing this in Indy?

Nope. I've noticed this for a while in their OTA broadcasts, too. It can be quite annoying at times, making shows unwatchable.

bakem

Got this note from John at WXIN/WTTV:
"We should be back up with prime time HD (network provided) Monday
December 22. This is what I was told. We are still working out the bug in some of the equipment. Thank you for watching."

I'm disappointed that we get the Titans vs Texans on Sunday instead of Dolphins vs Bills in HD. The Titans mean nothing to us if the Colts take care of their own business. I would much rather see HD football in all its glory on CBS than a game that doesn't mean anything to us. Of course I'd rather see any decent game in HD than any SD game unless it's the Colts. Does WISH have any say at all in which game they show or does CBS decide?

I have noticed that on ESPN HD (ch. 173) on Comcast Cable in Indianapolis, the audio is always just Dolby Stereo. For instance, tonight's Colts game was advertised at the top of the broadcast as being in 5.1, but it wasn't.

Anyone have any observations?

Ken

Originally posted by KBandy
I have noticed that on ESPN HD (ch. 173) on Comcast Cable in Indianapolis, the audio is always just Dolby Stereo. For instance, tonight's Colts game was advertised at the top of the broadcast as being in 5.1, but it wasn't.

Anyone have any observations?

Ken

Unfortunately, ESPN-HD's version of 5.1 is not Dolby Digital. They use
"SRS Circle Surround", which, of course, needs a receiver with Circle Surround decoding to take full advantage of. Dolby Digital or DTS decoding won't cut it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=338871&highlight=circle+surround

bakem

Originally posted by bakem84
Unfortunately, ESPN-HD's version of 5.1 is not Dolby Digital. They use
"SRS Circle Surround", which, of course, needs a receiver with Circle Surround decoding to take full advantage of. Dolby Digital or DTS decoding won't cut it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=338871&highlight=circle+surround

bakem
Well, I guess that explains it.

Thanks,
Ken

I checked out Leno last night for the first time because I now get WTHR in HD. The first part of the show was definitely high def. But, it seemed like after the first segment, it was not. The picture looked like it was in zoom mode because leno's head was too wide, but there was some cropping at the top and bottom. The peacock in the corner was about half cut off. I assume our local affiliate just failed to turn it back to high def after the comercial break. Did anyone notice this?

I did not notice that problem on Jay Lenno last night. I was watching on WISE-DT Fort Wayne.

Digital Fox was added to the Comcast lineup about a week and a half ago and we're still not recieving fox widescreen for any of the shows. I'm just wondering if anyone is recieving the widescreen programming yet or are they still working on their move to the new facility. Any information would be helpful or even an email address for who I can contact at the station. Thanks.

I don't believe they are doing 16:9 yet. (short and sweet)

Ok I'm getting a bit upset. I am able to get all the local HD channels I want except for WISH. I have tweaked my antenna positioning. I have shortened my cable run, nothing seems to let me get a good lock on 9.

I am running the Channel Master 3018 in my attic with about a 40-60 foot cable run. I am located in 46123 zip and have the antenna pointed East-Notheast. I don't understand why I cant get a good signal. There are no large buildings in my way, there are no monster trees etc...

What can I try?

46123 is Avon right ?. Have you tried aiming your antenna to point more to the north ? it might work. CBS transmitter is close to Michigan Rd and 71st. I think.
Dave

yeah, tried that. antenna has gone from north all the way to east with no luck.

How is your picture on WISAH-8 analog? That's a good predictor of performance for WISH-DT on 9.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

WISH analog comes in fine. The reception is as good as WTHR and better than WRTV. Currently I'm reading a signal level of 50/100 for WISH-D. My HD receiver is the Sony SAT-HD100.

fgr41, Two suggestions. Instead of just aiming you might try moving your antenna's location to a different spot in your attic. It may not be a large building close to you causing the problem. In case you haven't already tried it antennaweb.org will give you a precise azimuth. If you're using RG-6 I wouldn't expect your cable run to be an issue.

Beyond that I don't know. WISH-DT comes in fine here in Plainfield with a RS double bow-tie and a 10 dB amp. Nothing fancy and I get ~85 of 100 on a HiPix card. Now if Tom's management would only get rid of the Fat-O-Vision on some broadcasts...

Cant move the antenna, its where it is and not much i can do about it. I have set my antenna up according to antennaweb nothing works. I went out tonight and bought a 14db amp, no good.

I'm at a loss.

Sorry but I don't have any other ideas. Thought that maybe you could go to the other end of the attic but sounds like no go there. WISH-DT is strong here in Plainfield even on a UHF only antenna.

Have you tried aiming it in other directions rather far away from the NNE that the station is located? I'm not familiar with the Sony box but in many cases the indicated signal strength is really signal quality. When you add an amp without a change I have to wonder if you have a multipath problem. It seems like sometime a clean reflection is better then the scrambled primary signal. When I was first playing with my set up I was able to get some stations cleanly even with the antenna pointed away from them.

If this doesn't work I don't know what else to try. Maybe one of the members that actually understand RF signal propagation will chime in.

Good Luck,

I realize you might not be able to mount the antenna anywhere else, but just for debug, try pulling the antenna down and use a long cable to walk the antenna around your yard and see if you can get any improvement.

Or... try getting a set of rabbit ears or a bowtie antenna and move it around.

If all else fails see if you can find another set top box to debug with somehow (borrow from a friend, etc).

Good luck!

Thanks for all your ideas and suggestions. I have come to the end of my test window, vacation is about over. I have lived w/out WISH-DT for this long I guess I'm just going to have to deal with it a bit longer. I think what I'm going to have to do is try and dedicate an afternoon and get a buddy over to help me try out a few new configurations with the antenna.

My home has 3 small attic's, 2 lower level and one upper level. Right now the antenna is in one of the lower levels. I may try and disassemble it and move it to the upper attic. I really don't want to do that and didn't consider that as an option but I have run all the other ideas in the ground. I haven't wanted to do this because of the difficulty factor being more than I wanted to tackle by myself. By moving it I will be able to raise it about 8ft, I just pray that gives it enough. I am going to be seriously pissed if moving it gives no improvement.

Thanks again, If you have any other suggestions please let me know.

You might try a 10db pad on the input of your HD tuner sometimes that can help. Your signal might be too strong.
Dave.

Rose Bowl Parade in HD........It's available now on WTTV-DT 53 and from the WTTV-DT feed available from WXIN-DT 45. It looks quite good. Much better than the analog feeds on ABC, CBS and NBC. By the way, analog WTTV-4 is not carrying the parade.

Steve

WISH-DT 9

Is anyone else having a problem getting a strong, stable signal from WISH-DT this Thursday evening? Normally, this is the strongest and most stable signal I receive, as I'm only 5.5 miles away. On my DTC100 (RCA) I normally have a signal strength reading between 92-94. Tonight it is fluctuating all over the place between the 40's and 60's. This is causing major dropouts. Meanwhile, I'm able to rotate the same outside VHF antenna towards Lafayette where I'm receiving WISH-DT's sister station WLFI-DT 11 with a nice steady signal strength of 70. Also, the other local DT's (all UHF) are coming in just fine. Maybe this evening's rain is causing a problem. Just curious.

Steve

Hi guys, this is my first post here. I’m debating whether to upgrade to Bright House HD. Unfortunately I haven’t had any luck getting much information from the customer service reps. I have a fairly complex setup, so I want to research how their STB would integrate into my system. I’d appreciate any comments on Bright House’s service, and I’m especially interested in the model of STB they provide.

Eric

Is it just for me or is WTHR 6's digital channel really messed up tonight? And of course before the BCS Championship game in HDTV. I am getting no audio and drop outs every few seconds.

Originally posted by Ronald
Is it just for me or is WTHR 6's digital channel really messed up tonight? And of course before the BCS Championship game in HDTV. I am getting no audio and drop outs every few seconds.
Yup, I'm getting the exact same thing. My unit shows a great signal strength, so it's something further up the "food chain".

WRTV (25) audio is out for me on both my Insight cable feed and my OTA signal. Great time to have a broadcast problem.

I know this is somewhat off topic, not being strictly related to Indiana DTV, but I just purchased a new TV whose only digital input is a DVI connector. The Samsung STB that I am using as a DTV tuner only has "component" (3 RCA connectors) as it's only digital output. So currently I am taking these component outputs into a set of component inputs on the new set, but the way I see it, it is not a purely digital signal.

So, my question is, is there such an animal as a DVI "breakout" cable? This would take the 3 RCA outputs of the Samsung and allow them to connect to the DVI input of the new set. I am admittedly not real clear on what the pinout is of a DVI connector, or if this is even feasible. Or, does this really matter? Am I just as well off to stick with what I have?

Thanks in advance,
Ken

On my Mits I tried both DVI and component and didn't really see any difference (doing a lot of A/B switching). Also, I don't believe you can convert component to DVI.

Originally posted by Charles R
On my Mits I tried both DVI and component and didn't really see any difference (doing a lot of A/B switching). Also, I don't believe you can convert component to DVI.
Thanks for the reply, Charles. I had done some testing on another set and kind of came to the same conclusion. Also, just so we're on the same page, when I said "component", I was referring to the jacks labelled "Y, Pr, Pb" on the STB.

Ken

Anyone have any info on when WXIN will be doing widescreen again? It sure would be nice for this weekend's playoff games. At least the Colts will be in HD on WISH!

WXIN has been doing widescreen again for about a week. Most recently, "Bernie Mac" and "Arrested Development" were widescreen last night.

Originally posted by Gabro Jay
WXIN has been doing widescreen again for about a week. Most recently, "Bernie Mac" and "Arrested Development" were widescreen last night.

OK, I was just curious as this past Sunday's Green Bay vs Seattle game was supposed to be widescreen and it wasn't.

Hi Everybody,

I'm also an Indianapolis resident and have a question for you. I'm about to go HD and I believe the following are my options (correct me if I'm wrong) :

1. Comcast - Relatively inexpensive. Only $20 a month for the box and since I already have digital service, this would give me ESPN, NBC, CBS, WFYI, INDH1 and INDH2 basically (whatever happened to ABC??). I could get Showtime HD and HBO HD if I wanted to but at an additional price.

2. OTA HDTV - I could go buy me a Samsung HDTV receiver and get what??? *need your help here*

3. DirecTV - The satellite equipment for HDTV costs like $700!! and I believe their basic-level package is $10 for 10 channels nobody cares to watch. What else do they offer?

Are these my only options? and in your opinion, which one offers the best bang for your buck?

thanks,
Jorge

Originally posted by jcamber
Hi Everybody,

I'm also an Indianapolis resident and have a question for you. I'm about to go HD and I believe the following are my options (correct me if I'm wrong) :

{snip....}

thanks,
Jorge

Regarding an OTA receiver, there are several manufacturers out there. Zenith even has a box that has a hard drive in it that will store programs and act as a "TiVo" type unit. As far as what you can get, remember you will need some sort of an antenna for this unit, whether it be rabbit ears or whatever. Of course, remember the better the antenna, the more you'll get!

I am on the west side of Indy, and have a 3 antenna "Indy special pack" or something like that, that was designed to pick up the local analog signals. With this antenna, I am able to receive 2 channels from WRTV, 2 channels from WTHR, 3 channels (sometimes 4 during March Madness) from WISH, 2 channels from WFYI (including an eye popping HD demo loop most of the time), 2 channels from WHMB, 1 channel from WNDY (UPN), and 1 channel each from WTTV and WXIN (however, they are both broadcast from WXIN, since they are both Tribune owned stations, sharing facilities). I believe some other folks around are able to pick up another set of WXIN/WTTV channels, as well.

Regarding Comcast, they recently added WXIN-DT to their DTV line up. I would imagine that it is only a matter of time before they come to terms with WRTV, but who knows?

For a complete (as far as I know) listing of stations broadcasting digital signals or planning to, point your browser to http://www.hdpictures.com/stations.htm.

As far as bang for your buck... You can't beat the number of local channels available with an OTA receiver. However, you won't have the cable stuff (ESPN, INHD, etc..) I personally have both an OTA receiver (actually two) and a Comcast box. I started with the OTA, and then decided I wanted to have ESPN and the cable offerings.

Good luck, and be ready to be impressed!

Ken

Originally posted by jcamber
Hi Everybody,

I'm also an Indianapolis resident and have a question for you. I'm about to go HD and I believe the following are my options (correct me if I'm wrong) :-snip-

2. OTA HDTV - I could go buy me a Samsung HDTV receiver and get what??? *need your help here*

3. DirecTV - The satellite equipment for HDTV costs like $700!! and I believe their basic-level package is $10 for 10 channels nobody cares to watch. What else do they offer?

Are these my only options? and in your opinion, which one offers the best bang for your buck?

thanks,
Jorge

As for Directv you could get:
HDNET (various programming and all hidef)

HDNET Movies ( A second channel showing HD movies only. Most seem to be similar offerings to what you'd find playing on AMC or Encore)

ESPNHD (So far only a few HD offerings per week but supposed to be ramping that up this year. Sunday Night NFL game is HD. I believe there was always a college HD football game of the week as well. Playmakers is in HD. I see some college Bbal games scheduled for Hidef and I believe I saw some NBA games for later in the season).

Discovery Channel HD (Great for showing off your HDTV. Seems to have plenty of repeat airings of shos here)

PPV HD (Limited selection of new PPV movies in HiDef)

NFL Sunday Ticket (Some games in HiDef (or EDTV for FOX games) Blackout does apply... if game is available OTA in your area then it will be blacked out on sat whether your local station is broadcasting in HD or not).

NFL Channel (Limited offering of HD material each week. They have a game of the week they highlight and disect in HD).

HBOHD (Mimics regular HBO but shows are Hidef whenever available)

SHOHD (Mimics Showtime but shows are in Hidef when available)

I'd say most movies on HBO or SHO are widescreen offerings but you can still see a few that are simply upconverted SD (Still 4:3 screen). SHO does opt for OAR so some shows are letterboxed for a wider ratio.

Did I forget any?

-------------------

OTA... I'm not in Indy (I'm Bedford, IN) so my OTA HD reception is limited. I'm not sure what I could or could not receive if I optimized my antenna setup (ie spent $$$$).... but judging by the fact that I can get at least blips on the signal meter for most Indy offerings I'd think you'd be in good shape (living in Indy) for all major networks... Others would have to tell you what ant setup would work for you.

I even get blips for WTTV DT's low power signal.

-AKH

Man I hate this forum software sometimes. Hit the wrong button and lost 20 minutes of typing. So now you get the short version...

Read through these links:
http://www.itesla.com/indyhd/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164671
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=34

You can get a DirecTV / OTA system for <$400 : http://www.americansatellite.com/products/viewprod.asp?nav=&SID=WOJQHG89616454KOTVE6J7AA5WR8E3NCZ&ITEM=398

Other than what you mentioned there is Voom HD satellite (voom.com)and DishNetwork has some HD similar to DirecTV too.

As for WRTV and Comcast, I have read in this forum that it's an ABC/Comcast issue (at the corporate level) - not a local thing. Someone might be able to confirm/refute/clarify.

-e

kwerner>

I was just checking out that DirecTV receiver... not bad! ... do you have it? ... also, if I get this thing, can I start watching local HDTV stations right away? or do I have to suscribe to direcTV ?

akh> what is your HD lineup from DirecTV and how much does it cost you? I'm assuming you have already been through the discriminating process and know which direcTV packages are worth the money.

thanks!
Jorge

Also, thanks to everybody for their quick responses!

I have the E86's cousin, the Philips. Hughes E86 = Philips DSHD800 = Toshiba ? = Mitsubishi ?. All made by Hughes and re-packaged. The only problem with this series from what I can tell is that it doesn't output on both the HD and svideo outputs at the same time. Which could be a pain if you want to use this box with a VCR. Also it does not have digital DVI output which the $700 models probably do. Otherwise it works great, nice signal strength meter which helps with antenna alignment. Two friends have the Highes and are happy with it.

AKH gave you the details. The DirecTV HD package is around $11 I think for HDnet, HDnetMovies, Discovery, ESPNHD. HBO and SHO cost extra for respective packages ($20 each?). HD-PPV costs around $5 per movie. NFL stuff only comes in with Sunday Ticket which is several hundred $$$ I think for the season. Occasionally there are some free NBA games in HD too (few per year on the HD special events channel which normally airs nothing).

kwerner>

The whole idea behind getting this thing is to be able to watch the superbowl on HD. Even though direcTV would not offer it unless I get the sunday ticket, would this receiver allow me to get it over the air??

Also, will this receiver allow me to watch LOCAL HD stations right out of the box? or will I have to suscribe to directv?

thanks!
Jorge

Originally posted by jcamber
kwerner>

The whole idea behind getting this thing is to be able to watch the superbowl on HD. Even though direcTV would not offer it unless I get the sunday ticket, would this receiver allow me to get it over the air??

Also, will this receiver allow me to watch LOCAL HD stations right out of the box? or will I have to suscribe to directv?

thanks!
Jorge

Superbowl won't be on Sunday Ticket. Sunday Ticket is just the regular season games.

The E86 (and it's cousins) will let you watch OTA channels (both normal and digital) without a subscription to Directv (you don't even need the dish). You will need a standard TV antenna of some sort altho I don't know if a small indoor antenna works for you or if you'll need something in the attic or on the roof. If you live inside Indy then I'm sure an outdoor antenna works but that may be overkill depending on your location to the towers.

Barring a problem at WISH TV you should be able to view the Superbowl in HD with the rcvr and a std TV antenna. Actually, a subscription to Directv won't help at all. No 'local' or 'network' HD on Directv anyway... just the channels I mentioned earlier.

Cable, of course is different and can carry your locals in HD.

-AKH

I don't think the NFL Playoffs or Superbowl will be on DirecTV's SundayTicket (or HD), not positive about that though.

Ooops, forgot to answer that before. Yes you can use the E86 without DirecTV service. My sat input got toasted by an indirect lightning surge so I didn't have HD DirecTV for a couple months this past summer. The OTA antenna input worked fine without sat/directv. So yes, you can buy it and watch the Superbowl OTA HD without DirecTV.

You can also get the E86 at your local BestBuy for around $400 I think (elliptical dish is $100 extra though).

Before you buy it, I'd research the latest hardware over in the HD hardware forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179095
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=25

I haven't been keeping up with new models so there might be something a lot better out now. Like this non-DirecTV HD tuner / scaler http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/mdr200_pb.asp . I'm kinda waiting to see reports on HD TiVo and Insight's HD Cable PVR before I even think about new hardware though.

Good luck, let us know if you get something new.

jcamber,

A word of caution about the Directv deals. They probably won't apply if you're in a Pegasus area. Parts of the Indy area (mostly suburbs, you can find out by plugging your zip code in here: http://www.getpgtv.com/welcome.cfm), have their Directv provided by Pegasus, who is notorious for not giving any of the deals that Directv does. In this case, Best Buy, etc. would be your best bet, as the agreements that are signed don't apply to Pegasus customers.

OTA in this area is pretty good, IMO, though. NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, FOX, WB, and UPN, as well as WHMB, all have digital signals, and all but Fox and WHMB (I think), have HD programming available.

Good luck!

bakem

Oooh that's a good point, that $389 price likely requires a year of DirecTV service too.

Over in the HDTV Programming forum there is discussion about DirecTV carrying CBS HD, and especially the Superbowl. There are a bunch of limitations and requirements that I don't understand. If anyone does understand it, post here wether or not DirecTV/Pegasus customers in Indy and outlying areas like Kokomo will get this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347953

Edit - I think I understand it now. Since Indiana's CBS stations are affiliates and not owned & operated by CBS, we will not be able to get CBS HD via DirecTV. Unless you live in a remote corner of Indiana where you don't have access to any CBS OTA signal. Enter your zip here http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/display.asp to see if you are eligible.

I don't suppose there is any chance ALL HD Stations in Indy went dark tonight? Everone station is not working tonight in Kokomo using my OTA Antenna. (Analog and FM using the same antenna is fine.)

Yeah, I am just hoping my HD Tuner didn't go DOA.

Sorry, CBS HD, PBS HD, ABC digital, and NBC digital all working for me. Fox 59.1 had WB for minute now it's back to black screen though.

Originally posted by kwerner
Sorry, CBS HD, PBS HD, ABC digital, and NBC digital all working for me. Fox 59.1 had WB for minute now it's back to black screen though.

Guess I will see how the extended warranty on my 65" MITS will play out at HH Gregg. Much saddness.

I have a 46" Mits that I got from HH Gregg and it has had to be repaired 3 times in a little less than 3 years. The #'s look rather bad but I have to say I am still happy with the TV and am very glad I got the extended warrenty. HH Gregg has been very good about repairing it and doing it fast. Their warrenty also says that if it needs to be repaired one more time they will simply haul it away and bring me a NIB equal or better TV. I am keeping my fingers crossed something breaks in the next year or 2.

Have you tried unplugging the TV for a few minutes then trying it again? Maybe it just needs a reset. You might search through the hardware forums here or at HomeTheaterSpot.com too (they have forums for each TV mfg). They might know another way to reset it or something.

West side of Indy (Eagle Creek) here... I use Sony HD200, Silver Sensor in attic, and Screenplay 7200 FPJ. Despite good-looking signal strengths on nearly all available channels, I still get occasional breakup on some channels, especially when graphics (e.g. advertising during sporting events) move rapidly in the broadcast image. Thoughts?

TIA,
Todd/Indy

Originally posted by tbhausen
West side of Indy (Eagle Creek) here... I use Sony HD200, Silver Sensor in attic, and Screenplay 7200 FPJ. Despite good-looking signal strengths on nearly all available channels, I still get occasional breakup on some channels, especially when graphics (e.g. advertising during sporting events) move rapidly in the broadcast image. Thoughts?

TIA,
Todd/Indy

You see it on deep/bright colors and motion, correct? Example/Question: During a closeup of a Kansas City player in last week's game you'd see it 'in' the red jersey on fast motion of either the subject or the camera but the rest of the pic would be fine?

One day I will learn if everyone sees it exactly the same and lives with it as a limitation of existing technology... or doesn't notice it.... or if it is something that is dependant upon, and can be minimized/eliminated with the quality of your equipment.


AKH

Originally posted by tbhausen
West side of Indy (Eagle Creek) here... I use Sony HD200, Silver Sensor in attic, and Screenplay 7200 FPJ. Despite good-looking signal strengths on nearly all available channels, I still get occasional breakup on some channels, especially when graphics (e.g. advertising during sporting events) move rapidly in the broadcast image. Thoughts?

TIA,
Todd/Indy See this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2872756#post2872756

So what is the deal with Fox not showing the Eagles/Carolina game in HD? ... it should be the standard for any AFC/NFC championship game. By the way, CBS just looked awesome! too bad the Colts didn't make the experience of watching the game in HD a complete satisfaction!

jcamber,

Right now FOX is using EDTV. FOX is planning to go HDTV by this fall. That's great news since the Super Bowl will be on FOX next year.

BTW, congratulations to WLFI-DT 11, Lafayette (WISH-DT's sister station) for passing HD. I noticed that a Lafayette viewer posted that yesterday's Colts/Patriots game was in HD on WLFI-DT.

Steve

Re: Graphics breakup

Paraphrased from a message from one of the local TV station
engineers -- and it is quite plausible WRT the dropout effect.

One issue with the graphics is that there is apparently some interference
in some stations between their NTSC STL (Studio/transmitter link) and
their digital STL. When the NTSC video is more strongly modulated
(FM wise), then the interference between the NTSC and DTV will
sometimes cause the DTV to break-up.

John

John,

Back in June there was a similar discussion about this situation. At that time the discussion primarily concerned the high-chroma/breakup problem with WXIN-DT, so I asked Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV if they were aware of the situation. Here's Rick's reply back in June............................................


Originally posted by goldrich
Here's Rick's reply:


Steve -

The answer is yes. The problem is our microwave from the studio to the
transmitter carries both analog and digital on the same system, and the high
color bleeds over into the digital and wipes it out.

We are going to solve it when we move to our new studio in December. From
the new building, the digital and analog microwaves will be separate
systems, because of that very problem. I pushed hard for that setup, and
it's going to cost a little more money, but the results will be worth it.

Rick

............................................................ ...................

As an update, since WXIN-DT and WTTV-DT moved into their new studio I have not noticed this problem with either station. It appears to me that Rick's assessment was definitely correct and that the new equipment corrected the problem.

Steve

CycloneGT,

I haven't seen much activity here from viewers in the Evansville area so I thought I'd chime in with a few suggestions. A few months ago I read an FCC posting where WEVV (CBS) filed for another 6-month extension in signing on its DTV. It sounds as though it will be awhile before this area sees any HDTV from CBS OTA.

After perusing some websites, it appears that at least two stations are passing HDTV. These stations have information on their websites about offering HDTV. Check out WFIE (NBC) at www.14wfie.com and WEHT (ABC) at www.weht.com . I'm not sure about WNIN (PBS). I hope this helps.

Steve

Does anyone know whether there are any plans for Fox Sports Midwest to show Pacers games in HD in the near future?

Wouldn't count on it ;). And thanks all for the breakup insight. I climbed into that *^&#$^% attic again and tweaked the silver sensor a bit. I rarely see it, usually during superimposed graphics (ad's). Nothing I can't live with...

Todd/Indy

Broken MITS HD Tuner Update - Just a "Great Job & Thanks" to HHGregg and MITS for lighting fast service and no questions asked replacement of a defective DM Module.

I now seem to have a little better reception and have a solid picture for 4 and 59 on their digital channels of 45 and 54. I know one of those didn't come in before.

Tom Weber,

If there is inclement weather in Indiana during the Super Bowl broadcast, will WISH be displaying the school closings ticker and/or the storm watch/warning icons? This would really ruin the HD broadcast if these are on the screen during the game and the commercials. (And, as I'm sure you know, it's not too good for RPTV's to have static images on them for 4 or 5 hours.) Any information you can give on WISH's plans in the case of bad weather/school closings would be greatly appreciated.

I'm looking forward to another great HD production by CBS as well as the people at WISH-TV. Thanks in advance!

Chris

I'm told that we won't do school closings on WISH-HD. If we were to have truly life-threatening weather we'd probably upconvert so that we could do news/weather updates, but I don't foresee any tornados in Feb.

Tom Weber

I enjoy watching the superbowl commercials just as much as watching the game. Are we too far away from commercials being broadcasted in HD as well?

jorge

Originally posted by jcamber
I enjoy watching the superbowl commercials just as much as watching the game. Are we too far away from commercials being broadcasted in HD as well?

jorge

At the moment I can't remember the sponsor, but at least one commercial during last year's super bowl game was in HD. So far I have not heard about this year's offerings.

Steve

I think ESPN HD and some movie trailers were hd last year.

This year: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=358042&highlight=superbowl

Reports I've seen say that some movie studios will promote their movies with HD commercials - but that's it.

Tom Weber

Originally posted by goldrich
WTTK-DT 54, Kokomo..............

Recently I've noticed that my RCA DTC100 receives both WTTV programming on 54-1 (29-1 remapped) and WXIN programming on 54-2 (29-2 remapped) while my Samsung SIR-T151 only receives the WXIN programming on 54-2 (29-2 remapped). The 151 recognizes 54-1 (29-1) but produces no video or audio. The screen is blank. A TV DXer in Illinois recently picked up this station with his Hauppauge WinTV-D tuner and saw the same blank screen on 54-1.

Is anyone else seeing this with WTTK-DT? If so, what brand and model of STB are you using. I'd like to give Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV/WTTK some background information on this situation. Thanks.

Steve

Steve,

I just joined the forum, was reading your post concerning the Samsung 151 issue with WTTK-DT (29-1). My Samsung SIR-T150 (Firmware Rev. 2.0) also exhibits this behaviour. Was a solution to this ever found?

Thanks..

Kevin

Kevin,

Welcome aboard! I'm sorry to say that a solution has never been found for the blank screen display of WTTK-DT (29-1) with the Samsung receiver. In fact just last week I emailed Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV/WTTK about a dropout problem I had noticed with WTTV-DT 53 (4-1), which has been corrected, and I pointed out the Samsung issue again. Here's Rick's response to that issue..................................


"I've heard of quite a few strange problems with recent Samsung receivers. We aren't doing anything different on PSIP on WTTK-DT than we ever did. That's not to say it's known to be perfect, because with the studio move I haven't
had much time to keep it up. But this is the only complaint I've had so
far.".............Rick

............................................................ .......................

Apparently I've been the only one to comment about this issue. Maybe you should contact Rick and let him know the details of the situation with your Samsung. At least he'd know that others in the area are experiencing the same problem. His email address is rpoling@tribune.com . Good luck. Thanks.

Steve

It appears that WLFI-DT 11, Lafayette has completed its HD installation. I've been watching "CSI" on the station and the switching between network and local spots seems to be working flawlessly. PQ and audio are great. BTW, I'm 40 miles from the tower near Rossville and I'm getting a great signal tonight.

Steve

I bought a new antenna from Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=930%2D0998) . I have to say it is worlds better than the Channel master I have in the attac. I get all the local HD channels with good signal strength but I'm having issues with channels bleading over. For instance when watching 13.1 every once in a while 13.2 seems to overtake 13.1 for a few seconds. I have a tunable 20db attenuator that I have used to tone down the signal. It really hasnt helped. What can I do to stop the channels from bleading into eachother?

Bueller, Bueller, Bueller...

Originally posted by fgr41
I bought a new antenna from Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=930%2D0998) . I have to say it is worlds better than the Channel master I have in the attac. I get all the local HD channels with good signal strength but I'm having issues with channels bleading over. For instance when watching 13.1 every once in a while 13.2 seems to overtake 13.1 for a few seconds. I have a tunable 20db attenuator that I have used to tone down the signal. It really hasnt helped. What can I do to stop the channels from bleading into eachother?

fgr41,

I guess I'm rather confused by your issue. I have three different DTV receivers and I've never seen a digital channel, or subchannel, bleed over into another digital channel. This issue can be very common with strong analog signals, but I'm not familiar with this issue with DTV. Like any computer, you might try rebooting your receiver by unplugging it for a few minutes and then plugging it in and turning it on. Otherwise, maybe someone else can pass along some more info.

Steve

Let me describe it a little better. While watching 13.1 the image will drop and the tv will go from 1080i to 480i and the programming that is on 13.2 will come on for anywhere from a fraction of a second to a few seconds. The image then converts back to 1080i and 13.1 will be displayed.

This happens on 13.1, and 59.1 mostly. With 59.1 the audio and video simply change from 59.1 to 59.2 then back again. It is like the other sub channels are overpowering the .1 channel. I thought the signal may be too strong so I bought the attenuator to tone things down. I am still getting the same thing.

An attenuator won't help.

13.1 and 13.2 are part of the same exact digital stream. 59.1 and 59.2 are a part of another digital stream, but are also combined. Your reciever picks up that one digital stream and pulls out the program you have selected.

Apparently your receiver is losing sync on the .1 feeds and showing you .2 feeds instead. There is a lot more data involved on the .1 HDs, but it is still odd that it flips to .2 . My receiver just shows "no signal" when I don't have enough digital bits in the signal to view the .1 .

It isn't a matter of .2 overpowering .1 as both are sent at the same power level as part of the same mux.

JL

Hmmm, interesting. I have the Sony SAT-HD100, anyone else have this trouble with the receiver? I will also post a message in the equipment forum.

Newbie here, just wanted to update the local list. WTHI 10 (24-1) CBS has been up for awhile and broadcasting in true hi-def. WTWO 2 (36-1) NBC has been broadcasting on their digital channel, but it appears only standard fare (ie: haven't seen a hi-def program yet, no Leno, etc). WBAK 38 (39-1) FOX is not on line yet and who knows when?

Originally posted by RWB
Newbie here, just wanted to update the local list. WTHI 10 (24-1) CBS has been up for awhile and broadcasting in true hi-def. WTWO 2 (36-1) NBC has been broadcasting on their digital channel, but it appears only standard fare (ie: haven't seen a hi-def program yet, no Leno, etc). WBAK 38 (39-1) FOX is not on line yet and who knows when?

Welcome aboard, RWB. Although WTHI-DT is operating with low power right now, at least it is passing HD from CBS, as you mentioned. As for WTWO, its owner, Nexstar, doesn't seem to be very progressive with DTV, and especially with HDTV, according to viewers in other Nexstar markets. And as for WBAK, the station has filed at least two different applications with the FCC for extensions to delay the construction of WBAK-DT. I believe the last extension was just approved in October. The station states the delay is for financial reasons.

Steve

Thanks for the welcome and the info Steve. No one and I mean no one around here has pushed much for the upgrade in signals. Let's face it until your main stream mortar store sales people show the consumer what they are missing it's going to be that way for a while. Right now I'm using a Silver Sensor and since I can get the TH signals I'm waiting until possibly some central Illinois stations go on-line before going with an outdoor antenna.

Super Bowl looked PDG.
:)

Anyone know if they're ever going to fix the lip sync problem on WTHR-DT?

FGR41

I have noticed what you describe on an old SAT-HD100 that I have as well. I have noticed it when the box is tuned to 59.1. I have a few other HD receivers that do not suffer from this. I assume it is an issue with the "old" Sony.

Ronald,

Thanks I was wondering if the box was flake'n out. I called Sony and since I had my receiver repaired w/in the last 90 days they said if I ship it off to them they will take another look at it for free. I am wondering if it's something they can even fix?

The lip sync problem seem to be on a few channels. I use the audio delay on my avpII, by using the audio delay setup part on the DVE. When using a front projector and video processor there is a little delay even on dvds and other source, on my setup the delay is set to 35ms which works fine. But on the channels like WRTV-13-1 and WTIU-30-1 (PBS) it is so bad that I rarley watch them, for PBS I will watch WFYI 20-1 and for NBC I can pick up WTWO but as RWB has said they are not broadcasting 1080i just upconverting right now. I wish the other broadcasters were more like WISH-TV 8 (Mr. Weber I think) he is on this forum and does a real nice job with there broadcast of HDTV.

Brad

I don't know if my input made a difference, but...


After last week's weather, and subsequent school closings and delays, I e-mailed engineering at WTHR about the very intense red and yellow "13" box in the corner of their information bar, particularly on WTHR-DT. This morning I noticed that the number and box were gone. Makes me feel much better about the wife watching NBC all day with that thing hurting my plasma. Thanks go out to WTHR for doing this. Now, if they could fix that lip-sync problem, things would be golden.

bakem

Sorry, I know there is a forum area already setup for this, but it seems more Hoosiers visit here. I think it could be a good time if something like this could happen. My wife and I attended a forum meeting for Pacer fans and had a great time. If anyone is really interested check out the meeting forum and we'll see if we can get something going.

John

Here is a link for a meeting for us in Indiana.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347407

Brad

Thanks for adding the link Brad. Been to Spencer many times to watch my sons play ball against the Patriots.

Interested folks

Matrix
BradH
Taucherguy
Kbandy
RWB
goldrich
woverman
realdeal317
fgr41
zider
spazztik

Any one here experiencing drop-outs,picture break-ups and audio pops during Enterprise from WNDY DT (32-1). I have been having these problems during most showings of Enterprise in HD (Wednesday nights).
I have a signal strength in low to mid 80's,with occasional drops to the high 70's. I have never seen the signal drop to zero.
I am using a 97" Channel Master UHF/VHF antenna, 33' off the ground. I am approx. 45miles from the tower.

Any input welcome!!!

I was wondering if anyone in the Indy area does ISF calibrations, or has had their set ISF calibrated? I've tried using DVE on my plasma, but am pretty unhappy with the results. Feel free to PM me!

bakem

Bakem,

Ken Whitcomb lives in Indy (317)696-5174 give him a call he is one of the best in the business.

Brad

Originally posted by Hang
Any one here experiencing drop-outs,picture break-ups and audio pops during Enterprise from WNDY DT (32-1). I have been having these problems during most showings of Enterprise in HD (Wednesday nights).
I have a signal strength in low to mid 80's,with occasional drops to the high 70's. I have never seen the signal drop to zero.
I am using a 97" Channel Master UHF/VHF antenna, 33' off the ground. I am approx. 45miles from the tower.

Any input welcome!!!

Hang,

It definitely sounds as though you have a good antenna setup. Do you have a rotor on the mast to turn the antenna? My experience indicates that aiming the antenna is very critical for best reception results, especially right now with the crowded airwaves filled with digital and analog signals. Many of us have found that moving the antenna just a few degrees can mean the difference between a great/stable signal and one that is barely there.

I made some quick calculations to give you a couple of examples. Using coordinates from downtown New Castle to the WNDY tower near Strawtown shows that you are 34 miles from the tower and that your antenna should be pointed west-northwest (295 degrees). Meanwhile, if you have it pointed toward the Indianapolis "antenna farm" the distance is around 44 miles and using the WRTV tower as a reference point, your antenna should be pointed virtually due west (268 degrees). This example would indicate a 27 degree difference between these two towers. This is significant when aiming an antenna for digital reception.

WNDY-DT uses a directional antenna but this should not be a factor for your area, as it appears that you are in one of their strong signal areas. A map of their coverage area is available at www.fccinfo.com.

I hope this makes sense and that something I've mentioned will help your situation.

Steve

goldrich,

Yes my antenna is mounted on a rotor. And, yes I have it pointed due west towards the Indy antenna farm. I will try pointing to west-northwest (295 Deg.), more towards the transmitter.

I am also thinking that I might be having a multi-path problem. There is a three story apartment building two streets over that is at or above the height of my antenna, in the direction of WNDY.

Also, while on the subject. I forgot to mention that I have my antenna hooked to a Channel Master 300 ohm to 75 ohm pre-amp. It is then split 4 ways to three TVs and my DISH 6000 Satellite receiver. With a great analog picture on every TV with very little ghosting!

Any input welcome on my set-up! Especially concerning my use of a pre-amp (in regards to digital signal strength). Does a pre-amp help or hurt a digital signal? Or cause a incorrect signal strength?

P.S. Thanks for the link and your help!!!

UPDATE!!!! I put a 20db attenuator at the antenna in on my satellite receiver, to see what effect it would have. It completely eliminated a problem I had with my other digital locals and satellite HD channels!
I would have an occasional vertical and horizontal lines appear for a second and then complete picture pixilization for a second and then an audio pop. This would happen on local digitals and sat. HD channels.
The only problem I have noticed lately is that Enterprise on UPN (2-11-04) had a lot of black screens, picture break-up, loss of audio, audio and video out of sink.

I have the Sony HD-100 and also have the problem with 59.1 & 59.2 and 13.1 and 13.2. 59 has been doing it for almost a year. 13 just started a few months ago. I will be watching 59.2 and the signal will switch to 59.1 audio and video for a few seconds and then switch back. Same thing on 13 but not nearly as often as 59. It didn't use to happen at all. Sometimes it's so bad I stop watching 59.

atmcdo: I totally feel your pain. After the Daytona 500, which will be in HD, Im shipping the HD-100 back to sony to have them take a look and try and repair it.

Contact Sony and let them know about the problem you are having. The more people that complain the more they will see it is a legit problem.

Anyone else?

See my last post above for an update!

Did anyone notice crappy performance from WTHR 13.1 today on the Daytona 500? About 1/2 to 3/4 of the way into the race I was getting all kinds of pixilation and dropout from the station as well as the audio/video being out of sync for the whole race. You would think they would sink things up a little bit better when the super bowl of racing is being broadcast in HD.

I was very disappointed and moved over to regular OTA signal for a while till things seemed to get straightened up. It did however give everyone the chance to get use to watching HD then move back to SD. Man you should have heard everyone complain, many thought they were showing old highlights from days long ago. You get used to seeing HD and when you have to go back it is shocking.

Originally posted by fgr41
Did anyone notice crappy performance from WTHR 13.1 today on the Daytona 500? About 1/2 to 3/4 of the way into the race I was getting all kinds of pixilation and dropout from the station as well as the audio/video being out of sync for the whole race. You would think they would sink things up a little bit better when the super bowl of racing is being broadcast in HD.

I was very disappointed and moved over to regular OTA signal for a while till things seemed to get straightened up. It did however give everyone the chance to get use to watching HD then move back to SD. Man you should have heard everyone complain, many thought they were showing old highlights from days long ago. You get used to seeing HD and when you have to go back it is shocking.

It wasn't just WTHR. I saw it on WAVE DT out of Louisville and there is a thread about it in the HDTV Programming section here at AVS. Check the Daytona 500 on NBC thread and you'll see the topic crop up. Somehow not EVERYONE reported seeing it tho... altho most posting in the thread did.

-AKH

The audio sync problem wasn't unique to the race. For some reason NBC has not gotten a clue as to how to sync their audio. I don't notice the problem as severe on any other sources. From what I can understand from WTHR, it's a network issue. Does anyone have any contacts at NBC that would like to hear from their DTV viewers?

Maybe they don't think anyone will notice;) !

Ken

Here's a reply I received from WTHR last week concerning the lip/audio sync problem:

----------
Thank you for your e-mail regarding the lip sync on NBC HD programming
on WTHR-DT's DTV channel.

Although I have not seen this problem myself at home (I have an RCA
DTC-100) or at the studio Master Control, and the lip sync is OK in our
HD Master Control and on all of our over the air receivers, I have had
other reports of this from some viewers ever since NBC began airing
prime time HD, but many others report no lip sync problems, so this
seems to vary with the individual receiver and audio setup. It seems to
be exclusively with NBC network HD programming and does not appear to be a problem with the locally upconverted HD programming on WTHR-DT. In
fact, NBC did not send an HD version of 'Las Vegas' last Monday, so we
aired the SD version and several viewers who had a lip sync problem with
HD 'Las Vegas' specifically commented that the SD version carried on
WTHR-DT 13.1 did not have a lip sync issue. So, this does appear to be
only with network HD – and not all programs are cited but "ER" and "Las
Vegas" seems to be mentioned often, most reports are that the "Tonight"
show does not have the problem. We put a brand new encoder on the air a couple of weeks ago and that did not affect the problem, so it does not
seem to be with the encoder.

NBC network HDTV engineering reports that they have occasionally had
similar feedback from other stations in other markets with the NBC HD
program feed and they are still working to see if they can determine a
source of the problem and correct it. It has been difficult for NBC
Engineering to track anything down since the reports are so intermittent
and random, and I’ve heard nothing new from NBC HD engineering recently.

Based on a pattern of anecdotal evidence from HD viewers, the current
suspicion here at WTHR is that it has something to do with viewers using
5.1 channel Dolby Surround or Pro Logic audio with NBC HD audio. Are
you using 5.1 channel Dolby or Dolby Pro Logic audio on your system?
Many others that report this problem seem to be using Dolby 5.1 or Dolby
Pro Logic – but we are not transmitting Dolby 5.1. NBC provides 2
channel L/R stereo on HD programs and we simply send the NBC HD audio
right through as Dolby encoded 2 channel L/R stereo, so your receiver
should be set to 2 channel stereo on WTHR/NBC HD programs. And I have a couple reports of the problem being resolved by going back to 2 channel
L/R stereo on the DTV receiver. NBC encodes Dolby Pro Logic into its
L/R audio, that may adversely affect any Dolby equipment if it is
incorrectly set and tries to pull 5.1 channel surround or maybe even Pro
Logic audio out of a 2 channel HD stereo transmission.

Sincerely,
Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering and Operations

----------
I tried changing the settings on my audio and DTV receiver as he suggested, but it didn't help me. Maybe it will work for others.

Chris

Originally posted by CsquaredIN
I tried changing the settings on my audio and DTV receiver as he suggested, but it didn't help me. Maybe it will work for others.

Chris
Same here. We have a Samsung 150 that has no outboard audio processing connected to it, a Comcast (Motorola) HDTV cable tuner, and a Zenith HDR-230 (with both of the latter going into a Dolby enabled audio system). They all demonstrated the same sync problems on the Daytona 500.

Ken

I have the same problem with WTHR and WTIU-PBS Bloomington and whats funny is WFYI showing the show doent have the sync problems. WISH -8 had the problem along time ago but its has work fine for so long I cant remember when the were off. I use a RCA_DTC100.

Brad

Brad,

I know what you mean about the lip sync problem with WTIU-DT. Whenever I check it out it is by far the best example of how bad a lip sync problem can be with HDTV. It is way off. And as you mention, WFYI-DT had a problem with it when the station first signed on but within a few months the engineers had most of the problem corrected and now it seems just fine.

All,

I just received an update from Steve Hicks at WTHR-DT. I emailed him back thanking him for his update and I also mentioned that we are still seeing the lip sync problem with NBC programming. I hope to post his comments on that situation later. Here are his other comments.................................
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"WTHR is starting to insert SD commercials during the HD telecast, we started last Friday so the net result should be MOST of the time your friend the NBC peacock should not be seen. Also there has been some chatter from NBC about doing some audio in 5.1 but only talk. So for now we will still only be sending the two channel stereo with encoding for surround sound.

The one possible side effect with the switching local ad's is there will be glitches in the program stream, some older HD receivers may store these as errors and could lock up. We do not have any type of HD frame sync equipment yet to solve this problem but we are trying to get that word out. Especially since we supply the out laying cable companies with HD receivers as a way to get SkyTrak weather on those systems, it is on 46.2 (but I am sure you knew that)."
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Brad,

I believe you can generally receive WAVE-DT (NBC) from Louisville.....Right?
If so, do the rest of us a favor and check to see if that station has lip sync problems at the same time WTHR-DT does. Steve Hicks asked me several months ago if I knew what other NBC stations were having the lip sync problems. I've tried to get feedback from viewers in other NBC markets but so far no replies.

Also, I know that WTWO-DT (NBC), Terre Haute, does not currently pass HD programming, but does this station have a lip sync problem with its NBC programming? That information might be helpful, too. Or if anyone else here knows about other NBC stations with lip sync problems, please post the info so I can pass it along to the guys at WTHR-DT. Thanks a lot. Hopefully we can help each other and get this situation resolved.

Steve

Steve,

I will check it out. What channel is WAVE-DT?

Brad

Originally posted by goldrich
Brad,

Also, I know that WTWO-DT (NBC), Terre Haute, does not currently pass HD programming, but does this station have a lip sync problem with its NBC programming? That information might be helpful, too. Or if anyone else here knows about other NBC stations with lip sync problems, please post the info so I can pass it along to the guys at WTHR-DT. Thanks a lot. Hopefully we can help each other and get this situation resolved.

Steve

I wouldn't count on anything from TWO at this time. I feel for the engineer trying to work for those folks (owner). Shoot its so bad I get actual lines in my picture while the CBS signal on Ten is dead on. Guess I should be happy somethings there, but I believe Steve mentioned WBAK (FOX) is owned by the same group. Looks like I'll be waiting on central Illinois to get their act together and that doesn't sound too promising.