Brad,

WAVE-DT (Louisville) is on ch. 47. I thought I had read in an earlier post that you watch, or had watched this station from your location. If not, I'm sorry. I was trying to locate another NBC station in the area where someone could compare it to WTHR-DT to see if the lip sync problem was common to both stations at the same time. Let us know if you find out anything.

RWB,

WTWO-DT 36 is owned by Nexstar. So far, I don't believe any of their DTV stations are passing HD, and the company owns a number of stations in various markets. Nexstar also owns WCIA-DT (CBS), Champaign, where it's going to be awhile before viewers in that area see HD from CBS (OTA).

I believe WBAK (FOX) is locally owned (Terre Haute). I don't believe there is any affiliation with Nexstar (WTWO).

Steve

Last night I turned my antenna to Terre Haute and got all three station just fine on analog but no digital on 2 or 10! I have been able to pic up 10 before but not last night. I think that RWB is right nothing out of 2. I did get Vincennes WVUT-22 PBS with a 60-65 signal also pickup channel 16-1 which the channel info said CH-3 I did get it to lock in some and I think it was a PBS station but it was to hard to lock on to so Iam not for sure what it was. As for WAVE I couldnt get a strong enough signal to pick up the channel.

I did notice that on Law and Order on WTHR last night that the sync problem would seem to change through the show meaning that it would get closer and than go further out of sync at time, but that just may have been just me since I was looking for it.

Brad

I suspect the problem may be on our end. We are currently undergoing an upgrade to our HighDef routing, switching system which could affect. I don't have a time frame yet on completion.

Thanks for the feedback.

Oh - and yes we use a high quality Faroudja upconverter for our SD. It was tested by the CBS labs for use with our HDTV encoder. We're glad you like it.

UPN23/DT32 Enineering

Hey guys how are you doing? I am currently researching on the kind of setup I will need for HDTV and analog TV. I live in Greene County near Bloomfield, in the American bottoms area. So that means I am at the bottom of a valley. I was looking at picking up a winegard antenna(hd-8200) and a winegard 8275 pre-amp or the channel master 7777. I am looking for some advice on products and what kind of things you guys near my area have been successful with.(I saw that some of you are near spencer) Also if anybody knows of some good places to buy these things or where to get antenna towers that would be great as well. Stansifer Radio in Bloomington carries most of this but they tend to be expensive. Thanks in advance.

jhelms,

I live about 4 miles east of Spencer and I think that Stansfer installed my antenna it is a 17ft channel master with amp and rotor, I have had it for a little over 5 years. Anyway I get all the Indy channels with a signal strenght from 82 for 23 upn to 93 for WISH and WRTV. I get Vincennces PBS wvut-22 and the Terre Haute channels as well but the are not broadcasting full power yet. So with the right antenna you should get alot of channels. Here is a link to help you.
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx
plus this one will tell all the channels on right now

http://hdpictures.com/stations.htm

Brad

BRADH,

How are you getting UPN23? I have had no luck locking in on UPN23/DT32, but it may just be that I have interference from the CBS out of Louisville. My signal strength on that station bounces from 42 to 91% and never locks on. I wish that I could get this figured out, as this is the one station that I really want to get!


Wil

Wil.
I have been getting UPN ever since they have been on air, I have never any problems with it.

Brad

Hmm. I just must be in a bad location for reception. Analog 32 out of Louisville must be overpowering UPN23's digital 32 signal. That is really a bummer, at least until CBS32 shuts down analog broadcasts. :(

Looking for any Sony SAT-HD100 owners in the indianapolis or surrounding areas. As I reported before I have been having trouble with DT stations bleeding ontop of each other and have started a ticket with Sony regarding the situation.

If you have the above mentioned receiver and have or have not had any troubles with OTA stations bleeding on top of each other please let me know.

Thanks

Originally posted by goldrich
Brad,

WAVE-DT (Louisville) is on ch. 47. I thought I had read in an earlier post that you watch, or had watched this station from your location. If not, I'm sorry. I was trying to locate another NBC station in the area where someone could compare it to WTHR-DT to see if the lip sync problem was common to both stations at the same time. Let us know if you find out anything.

RWB,

WTWO-DT 36 is owned by Nexstar. So far, I don't believe any of their DTV stations are passing HD, and the company owns a number of stations in various markets. Nexstar also owns WCIA-DT (CBS), Champaign, where it's going to be awhile before viewers in that area see HD from CBS (OTA).

I believe WBAK (FOX) is locally owned (Terre Haute). I don't believe there is any affiliation with Nexstar (WTWO).

Steve

I get WAVE DT and have not noticed a lip sync problem regularly. Did of course notice it during the Daytona 500 but don't ever remember seeing it on any other WAVE DT programming.

-AKH

DTV Changes with WXIN/WTTV/WTTK

I just received this update from Rick Poling and he asked that I share it with other AVS Forum readers.....................................


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Poling, Rick
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:24 PM
> Subject: Changes with WTTV-DT and WXIN-DT
>
> All -
>
> Due to the upcoming conversion of FOX's DTV signal from 480p to 720p,
> beginning sometime today we are discontinuing the practice of feeding
> WTTV's DTV signal on WXIN-DT and WXIN's DTV signal on WTTV-DT and WTTK-DT.
> It is not technically possible to broadcast a 720p signal and a 1080i
> signal on the same stream, at least not with acceptable quality.
> Therefore, the following channel line-up will be in effect:
>
> WXIN-DT, on channel 45, will only carry 59-1, which is WXIN's DTV signal.
> WXIN-DT's transmitter is on the NW side of Indianapolis.
>
> WTTV-DT, on channel 53, will only carry 4-1, which is WTTV's DTV signal.
> WTTV-DT's transmitter is a low-power transmitter located in Trafalgar.
>
> WTTK-DT, on channel 54, will only carry 29-1, which is also WTTV's DTV
> signal. WTTK-DT's transmitter is a low power transmitter located in
> Windfall.
>
> We regret that we have to do this. We realize that there are many viewers
> who cannot receive at least one of the stations carrying WTTV's DT signal,
> and in some cases cannot pick up WXIN-DT. We are well aware of this.
> Tribune Company has applications pending before the FCC at this time
> which, when granted, will allow us to build the full-power versions of
> WTTV-DT and WTTK-DT. As soon as these applications are granted, we will
> endeavor to build these full-power facilities as soon as we can.
>
> If you are having difficulty receiving any of these stations and I can be
> of assistance, please reply. I will be happy to be of assistance, if
> possible. Sometimes viewer feedback is the only way we know there is a
> problem in our data stream that causes certain receivers to not work
> right. If you do have a problem, though, first try doing a fresh channel
> search on your receiver; for the changes that we have to make, the need
> for a channel search would be expected.
>
>
> Note: You are receiving this email as a courtesy because you have
> corresponded with me in the past about DTV issues. If you do not wish to
> receive further mailings such as this, please reply and I will remove your
> name from the list.
>
> Rick Poling
> RF Supervisor
> WTTK-TV 29
> WTTK-DT 54
> WTTV-TV WB 4
> WTTV-DT 53
> WXIN-TV FOX 59
> WXIN-DT 45
>

That's unfortunate news about WXIN/WTTV, though it is understandable.

I get a lot of breakups on 4-1 and have been watching WTTV-DT on 59-2. (I'm on the south side on Indy, near Greenwood.) Hopefully it won't be too long before they're able to go full power.

Gabro Jay,

Have you been having problems with 4-1 recently? There was a problem they had at the tower, according to Rick. I wrote him about 3 weeks or so ago about it and it was fixed that week. I had a terrible problem with break ups until they fixed this. If you have not tried 4-1 for a while, you might want to try it again. Rick was very responsive and had the problem fixed within 24 hours (which included a trip to the tower).

Wil

I think it's going to be a little tougher to contact Rick Poling at WXIN. My last email was returned by their server as spam. Never been a problem before.

WTTV just lost me as a viewer. Since I receive (now most of) my locals via HD OTA I refuse to subscribe to the analog versions on DirecTV.

You were right, Wil. I hadn't tried 4-1 for about a month. I checked them out tonight and didn't have any problems. (Hooray!)

Charles R,

Have you tried to point north toward Windfall (a couple of miles N of Tipton)? Even tho 29.1 (on 54) is low power, it's not too far from Fishers. That would get you WTTK.

I haven't had any luck picking up windfall. I'm on the Carmel/Indy border directly south of it and can't even get a blip of a signal. I can get UPN just fine here (think that's north of noblesville). But that WTTK signal must just be too low power and too far away.
Is it even possible to get it in the Indy area? seems a bit ridiculous to not have the vast majority of the area covered. And honestly, FOX isn't going 720p untill august or september, so why not keep it going on the D45 subchannel until the high power application is approved? Its better than nothing.
Oh well. Guess we'll just have to consider this a WB-less market now. I'd say I was going to miss my hdtv WB, but it was preempted for basketball so much that I never really noticed it in the first place :)

abman,

From your description, it sounds as if we live in the same general area, between Indy and Carmel. I live 29 miles from the WTTK-DT tower in Windfall and 36 miles from the WTTV-DT tower in Trafalgar. I do have a fairly good outdoor antenna setup (two high-gain yagi-style UHF antennas horizontally stacked @ 30 ft. with the CM 7777 preamp on the line) and while I'm able to receive a very strong signal from WTTV-DT 53, my signal from WTTK-DT 54 is anywhere from nothing to a so-so signal, depending on tropospheric conditions. Although both stations are operating with almost the same power (4kW. for WTTV-DT and 3.3kW. for WTTK-DT) the big difference is the tower height. WTTV-DT has its antenna mounted on the WTTV-4 tower at 980 feet, while the WTTK-DT antenna is mounted on a shorter tower at just 498 feet. The tower height, affecting line-of-sight reception, is very important. I would suggest pointing your antenna almost straight south and trying for WTTV-DT 53. The signal meter on my DTC100 receiver last evening was reading 92 (with 100 the highest reading) for WTTV-DT. At the same time, the WTTK-DT signal was too weak to decode.

And, yes, the WNDY-DT 32 (UPN) tower is just north of Noblesville near Strawtown. This station is cranking 1000kW at around 900 feet.


akh,

Thanks for the comparison report between WTHR-DT and WAVE-DT on the lip sync situation. I'll try to get back to Steve or Al at WTHR-DT.

BTW, last evening I noticed that "Frasier" was not in HD on WTHR-DT. I don't know if that was a network problem or a local problem.

Steve

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Charles R,

Have you tried to point north toward Windfall (a couple of miles N of Tipton)? Even tho 29.1 (on 54) is low power, it's not too far from Fishers. That would get you WTTK. I have an attic mounted antenna and to be honest WTTV is low man on the totem pole so I will not be re-aiming my antenna. However I think in the past I saw 29.1 show up in the receiver so I'll try once in a while... it's not receiving it now.

I guess I'll live without Seinfeld and the occasional Pacers' game.

I also received the email from Rick Poling at WTTVK,WXIN..one upside for me and my Sammy SIR T150 is that the change seems to have cleared up the problem I had with 29-1 (strong signal, no audio or video)

Now that I can receive 29-1, has something changed at WISH-DT? Signal strength is much lower than normal?!?!?

Ah well, win some, lose some!

Kevin

Well, the news about WTTV is about the most disappointing DTV-related news I've heard yet. I've already been through the hell of trying to pull in 53 or 54 from my location, and it ain't gonna happen at current power levels. And my low-band VHF cable channels (WTTV is on cable 4 in Fishers) are actually worse than watching a snowy/staticy picture from OTA 29 analog.

Does anyone know if there's some reason WXIN can't pass WTTV as a 480p SD subchannel until the other transmitters' power levels are kicked up? I'm no fan of multicasting, but for some of us, it would be the lesser of two evils. And it would only have to be temporary.

Seems like WXIN should be able to multicast Fox-HD and WTTV-SD. WRTV, WTHR, and WISH all do it with HD and their weather/news stations.

Originally posted by DirectorBoy
Well, the news about WTTV is about the most disappointing DTV-related news I've heard yet. I've already been through the hell of trying to pull in 53 or 54 from my location, and it ain't gonna happen at current power levels. And my low-band VHF cable channels (WTTV is on cable 4 in Fishers) are actually worse than watching a snowy/staticy picture from OTA 29 analog.

Does anyone know if there's some reason WXIN can't pass WTTV as a 480p SD subchannel until the other transmitters' power levels are kicked up? I'm no fan of multicasting, but for some of us, it would be the lesser of two evils. And it would only have to be temporary.


Is there not a legal component to a station carrying other channels/networks even if the stations are all owned by the same entity?

-AKH

WIPB-DT 52, Muncie, IN Update.........................

A few days ago I sent an email to this station inquiring about the station's new tower and its transition to DTV. Today I received this reply:


Steve,

Thanks for following our project. It seems as though every time we get approval in one area another roadblock appears.

We have final FAA approval to erect the new tower.

In November, the application was submitted to the FCC for authorization to install the transmitter and antenna at this new location. We are still waiting for the FCC to act on this application.

Now the roadblock is the money to pay the bills. All PBS stations in Indiana were authorized money from the Build Indiana Fund to construct their DTV systems. In 2003, when the State ran into budget problems, Governor O’Bannon “froze” the dollars. WIPB was the only station that did not have the equipment installed when the money was frozen. Our equipment is ordered and in the manufacturer’s warehouse but we don’t have money to pay for it. We are doing what we can but can not proceed until the legislature re-authorizes the $2 million we were originally allocated.

My best guess for a sign-on date would be 6 to 8 months after we get the money…


Bob Fairchild

Manager of Teleplex Engineering

Ph (765) 285-1249

Fax (765) 285-7319

I assume WISH-TV will multicast the first 3 rounds of the NCAA Men's tournament as they have before. Has this been confirmed yet? Do they still multicast when there is an HD game too?

This is my first year with a digital/HD receiver so I'm really looking forward to watching all the games.

Yes, we are multicasting again this year. Only the St. Louis regional will have HD games before the truck moves to San Antonio for the Finals, so we're not pre-empting many HD games in favor of multicasting - only one site's worth.

Enjoy!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Yes, we are multicasting again this year. Only the St. Louis regional will have HD games before the truck moves to San Antonio for the Finals, so we're not pre-empting many HD games in favor of multicasting - only one site's worth.

Enjoy!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering I know my vote doesn't count but I vote for no multicasting. I think Digital TV should be HDTV (whenever possible).

Hey Tom, I have seen the blurbs on WISH about multicasting being available on Digital Cable also. Do you know any particulars about that?

Ken

Tom,

From browsing the HD Programming forum, it appears that the first round games from Kansas City on Friday and Sunday are also in HD. Can you confirm this as well? Thanks!

Edit: Oops, I suppose it doesn't matter since you multicast instead of showing the HD feed during the early rounds. Do you allocate the bandwidth equally between all four sub-channels? Again, thanks for all the information!

Originally posted by CsquaredIN
This is my first year with a digital/HD receiver so I'm really looking forward to watching all the games. Don't get too excited if you are looking for a lot of HD as I was last year. I believe I even had a group over to watch a game in wonderful HD which ended up a total bust. As SD at 100" isn't a pretty sight.

I can almost see (understand) multicasting if local teams are involved but outside of that I'll go for one pretty image as I can only watch one game at a time.

I agree HD would be cool, but watching 2 games in SD simultaneously is cool too. I have quite a few friends from out of the state so it is awesome to have everyone over to watch their favorite teams at the same time.

Watching teams I don't care about isn't that fun even if it does look great. Doesn't really matter too much this year anyway for us Hoosiers since only one Indiana team made it in this year.

My info says St. Louis only for HD games for early rounds.

LWS must reamin, we are contractually obligated to provide it to clients. It remains, however, at about 2 Mbits, and I can give about 5.5 Mbits to each of the 3 games.

I'll also try to stat-mux them, so that static shots (free throws, for example) get less bandwidth and following fast action gets more. This didn't work last year, as I had a mix of different software versions that ddin't play well together. I'll try again.

Insight, BrightHouse, and Comcast are all carrying the multicast games on their digital tiers. Channel numbers vary, but are in the 700s and 800s.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Hello guys, My name is Tom Smalley and I live at Selma, Indiana which is in Delaware County and is about 6 miles due East on SR 32 from Muncie. I live at the reservior area and have an indoor antenna for my OTA Digital stations. I have spoken with Steve Goldrich before on this and will pass on my signal strength info for anyone who is interested.

WRTV 6-1 comes in at 100
WISH 8-1 comes in at 70-93
WTHR 13-1 comes in at 100
WNDY 23-1 comes in at 100
WXIN 59-1 comes in at 55-70

I spoke to a buddy of mine last weekend who said he got in touch with WXIN engineering about the removal of multicasting on channel 45. Apparently, until Fox HD goes online this fall, they need to have a majority of their bandwidth free to test and troubleshoot the new HD signal. So most of channel 45 will be used for this testing, while a smaller portion of the bandwidth will be used to continue broadcasting the 480p Fox feed as we know it. With this arrangement, there's no space left for another SD subchannel... not without significant adverse effects on the HD portion of the signal.

Makes sense to me. But it still sucks, at least until 53 and 54 increase power. With the FCC so high on the digital transition, you'd think they'd find a way to push through these build permits faster.

Originally posted by DirectorBoy
I spoke to a buddy of mine last weekend who said he got in touch with WXIN engineering about the removal of multicasting on channel 45.My wife and I are only two viewers but we haven't viewed WTTV since.

Originally posted by DirectorBoy
I spoke to a buddy of mine last weekend who said he got in touch with WXIN engineering about the removal of multicasting on channel 45. Apparently, until Fox HD goes online this fall, they need to have a majority of their bandwidth free to test and troubleshoot the new HD signal. So most of channel 45 will be used for this testing, while a smaller portion of the bandwidth will be used to continue broadcasting the 480p Fox feed as we know it. With this arrangement, there's no space left for another SD subchannel... not without significant adverse effects on the HD portion of the signal.

Makes sense to me. But it still sucks, at least until 53 and 54 increase power. With the FCC so high on the digital transition, you'd think they'd find a way to push through these build permits faster.

Don't forget that WTTV-DT & WTTK-DT pass the WB-HD feeds in 1080i. There is not enough bandwidth for regular broadcasts of 1080i and 480p plus the testing of 720p. This was the main reason given by Rick Poling.

As for the power increases for digital channels 53 and 54, after reviewing some FCC filings, it appears to be a little more involved. It appears to me that Tribune has filed with the FCC to change the frequency of ch. 53 to ch. 48. If this is the case, it could take some time to get everything involved with this application approved by the FCC. Also, Tribune has filed with the FCC to change the tower location of WTTK-DT 54 from Windfall to Indianapolis, using the WXIN tower. Time will tell if and when these applications are approved.

Steve

I have Insight Cable with the HD package and DVR. Have you guys experienced on some shows...like Law&Order lip sync issues? I am going nuts.

I feel like I am wathing some Hong Kong martial arts movie. Does anybody else have experienced that on non Insight Cable?

I am also sound problems with WRTV 6 (ABC). The sound is normal and suddenly drops to almost inaudible and then comes back.

I am ready to pull the trigger and go with VOOM despite the fact that they do not offer a DVR yet. The DVR form Insight is also nothing to write home about. It doesn't always record my shows that I have setup especially when I have them setup back to back on the same channel.

Turk

Originally posted by Taucherguy
I have Insight Cable with the HD package and DVR. Have you guys experienced on some shows...like Law&Order lip sync issues? I am going nuts.
I notice lip sync issues at times on the OTA digital channels. Never enough to see a trend as to which shows and or channels.

Appreciate the Insight feedback as I'm thinking of giving them a try for the HD PVR. Currently, I have DirecTV which offers the same channels outside of Bravo HD. I love my original TiVo and I'm sure the HDTiVo will be great too though I do wish they would make it available monthly rather then having to purchase it.

I have already purchased two HD receivers and you only need so many... Pegasus did credit my account when I told them cable had a HD PVR to offer so I'll wait until my six months of credits are up and see what's happening.

Hello.. just thought I would finally post and put in my 2 cents after lurking for about a week.

I just purchased a Zenith 27" HDTV monitor for my small apartment, signed up for the Comcast Digital with the $5 HD add-on. (the less expensive option.. didn't want to get a dish, or ota tuner) So far I am happy. I watched the Pacers game from Conseco Wednesday night on ESPNHD, and was amazed to switch between the 3 local nets that Comcast provides and see HD or ED content.

WXIN, WTHR, and WISH were all coming in great except for lip synch during L&O on WTHR and the program WISH was running during the 10-11 hour. In both cases, audio was ahead of video by at most 15 frames. Quite annoying to me. I work at WTHR, so will ask Eng what the issue could be.. but for those closer to WISH, is this a relay issue through Master Control, or Comcast?

I am looking forward to watching all the games that WISH can offer on Comcast Digital. WISH website and Comcast (got the info from wishtv.com) say 801-803 plus standard 8, but as of 1:30am, I only have 802 and 803. Comcast, quite honestly, is clueless. I know more than they do, and I am not an Engineer.. just a lowly production worker-bee.

Well, other than that... Just signing in and saying hello.

Glad to have you here bradyusi.

Originally posted by bradyusi
Hello.. just thought I would finally post and put in my 2 cents after lurking for about a week.
..........
I work at WTHR, so will ask Eng what the issue could be.. but for those closer to WISH, is this a relay issue through Master Control, or Comcast?
..........
Comcast, quite honestly, is clueless. I know more than they do, and I am not an Engineer.. just a lowly production worker-bee.

Welcome to the forum. Lots of good information available here.

The WTHR lip sync probs have been well documented here and in other forums. It seems that WTHR is trying to pin the blame further "up stream". Most of the HD shows I watch are on CBS, and I have never noticed a sync problem there. Possibly the problem you noticed last night was an anomaly of some sort.

Regarding Comcast, when I was ordering my first HD cable box, I was trying to pin them down on what was really available in HD. The CSR that I was speaking with admitted that on several occasions, they have found out from customers when another HD channel is available.

Again welcome, and jump in any time!

Ken

Originally posted by coolray
Hello guys, My name is Tom Smalley and I live at Selma, Indiana which is in Delaware County and is about 6 miles due East on SR 32 from Muncie. I live at the reservior area and have an indoor antenna for my OTA Digital stations....
...WISH 8-1 comes in at 70-93...


Coolray -
Hi, I'm a fellow Muncie area resident on the Northwest side of Muncie near the old Target Store. I am in a condo complex and have a Winegard Square Shooter on my west-facing balcony and it does ok with the Indy digitals except for WISH 8-1 through 8-4 which are VHF. I can't pick them up. I really don't want to raise the ire of my neighbors by putting a larger antenna on the balcony and have considered putting a moderately sized antenna in my moderate to small sized attic.
I am marveling at your reported signal strength for 8-1 on the EAST side of town with an INDOOR antenna! After my experience I never imagined that someone could pick up digital 8 on the east side with an indoor antenna, let alone sometimes getting 93 signal strength!

Could you please tell me a little more about your set-up and particularly about your antenna!

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thanks in advance.

jculp99

If I understand the process from my conversations with the cable engineering folks, the cable channels are probably not present unless we have the multicast activated. The multicast was active yesterday late afternoon as we were getting it set up, and then we switched back to HD for the evening primetime. Re-activated the multicast this morning, for the balance of the week and weekend. It should be there now.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Ken Whitcomb finished his calibration of my Hitachi CMP-5000WXU plasma last night, thanks to a new DVI signal generator, and I couldn't be happier. Thanks to BradH for the recommendation, Ken really is the best in the business.

With some realignment of my attic-mounted CM3016, I am able to get WTTK-DT now, but lost WFYI-DT. Stinks to lose a great HD demo, but I watch much more WB content.

I'm only getting a 480P signal for the St. Louis regional first game so far.

bakem

bakem
Iam glad you had Ken calibration and now you can sit back and enjoy.

Brad

Is anyone having trouble with WXIN-DT? I lost my picture last night. My SAT-520 shows a strong signal for channel 45 (~85%), but when I tune, I get a "No Signal" message. This happened briefly with WISH-DT yesterday, also, for me.

bakem

Couldn't tell you, my tuner is in the shop getting repaired. :(

Tom Weber,

Thanks for a great job with the multicasting of the tournament over the past 4 days. This is the one and only event that I prefer multicasting over HD. I am looking forward to the upcoming HD games as well. Will you be passing through the HD game from St. Louis on Sunday the 28th? There are only two games on Saturday and Sunday, and they are at different times so I assume you will be done multicasting by then. As always, thanks for the information.

Ditto on Multicasting. I thought 12n-12m constant basketball was good.. but damn.. I had no idea how good it was going to be to be able flip back and forth and watch all of them. My friends will make sure my house is where the games are watched next year.

Question...

My TV needs a external tuner (VCR) for PIP. Can I split the coax prior to entering the HD Box (Comcast) and send one end into the VCR --> TV Coax 2, and the other into my HD Box? Will it work, or is the signal coming into the HD Box not viewable w/o the HD Box.

Brady,

I think that will work, but it won't be digital cable through the VCR, just regular old analog. (So you wouldn't be able to PIP an NCAA game other than the one on Channel 8.)

Glad folks are enjoying it.

This Thursday and Friday, we'll have the 2 simultaneous games on a constant feed, along with LWS, on the digital channel. That way, even if CBS flexes away from our normal game, we don't have to keep switching receiver settings to keep the "other" game on the digital channel. Then, Saturday morning, we'll go back to normal HD, LWS, and Radar, so the St. Louis games will be in HD.

(Apparently the Kansas City games were, as well, and I simply didn't have that info upfront.)

Sorry I wasn't able to do the stat-muxing, as well, which should have improved the picture quality a bit, but things got cabled up differently (again!) this year from previous years, and I didn't have enough facilities to make it happen. (Adding 3 channels of Master Control for 10 days every year, it's always a different mix of gear, as we put new stuff into permanent service and retire other pieces of equipment.)

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Glad folks are enjoying it.


We're glad you're doing it! I did notice one little anomaly, though. The channel that Comcast had as 802 (I don't recall which OTA channel it was) was causing me to enter my "parental control" code in order to view it. Later, I noticed on the OTA receiver that that channel (it might have been 8-3) had a rating listed as "R". So, that was what was tripping my parental control on the Comcast box.

I don't know, maybe CBS thought Janet Jackson was going to appear, or something, and that was why it was rated "R":D

Ken

Originally posted by bradyusi
Hello.. just thought I would finally post and put in my 2 cents after lurking for about a week.

WXIN, WTHR, and WISH were all coming in great except for lip synch during L&O on WTHR ................................

bradyusi,

Welcome to the Indiana DTV posts.

The lip sync situation at WTHR-DT has been an ongoing problem. Several of us here have contacted the engineers about this. For whatever reason, last night while watching "Frasier" I noticed that during at least 95% of the show, the video/audio sync appeared to be very good. This is one of the first times I've seen this with an HD broadcast on WTHR-DT. Also, I noticed that the HD picture quality appeared to be very good on "Frasier" last night. I hope this continues.


Tom Weber,

Thanks for the NCAA basketball multicasting. It's a great feature. Looking forward to the HD broadcasts this weekend.

Steve

Tom Weber......

I hate to be a pain....but how come the HD broadcast for WTHI in Terre Haute was a better quality picture than WISH in Indy. I am blessed in that I get both of the CBS stations off of my antenna. Normally I watch 8 (9.1) but on Friday night 10 (24.1) had a better picture??

Has anyone noticed that WTHR HD is not filling the screen on the sides? The first time I saw this was thur night but I dont watch the channel very much.

Steve your right the lip sync is getting better.

Brad

Originally posted by RSlamD
Tom Weber......

I hate to be a pain....but how come the HD broadcast for WTHI in Terre Haute was a better quality picture than WISH in Indy. I am blessed in that I get both of the CBS stations off of my antenna. Normally I watch 8 (9.1) but on Friday night 10 (24.1) had a better picture??


WISH was still multicasting the tournament on Friday night, therefore there wasn't any HD. In a previous post he mentioned that HD would be up and going this morning (Saturday).

Originally posted by CsquaredIN
WISH was still multicasting the tournament on Friday night, therefore there wasn't any HD. In a previous post he mentioned that HD would be up and going this morning (Saturday). They still multicast when showing HD and quite often I can see the effects of it compared to other HD sources. Most often during fast movement via sports.

An example would be a football game on HDNet and WISH (both 1080i) with HDnet looking more detailed and without pixelization at times. And HDNet is living with compression from DirecTV... I know it just might be me but I feel digital TV should be HDTV especially when it's blown up to 8 feet.

Question re: FOX Nascar

Is this just ED from FOX, or is it really a HD race. Everything but in-car cams and pre-taped elements are filling up my screen, while the in-car and pre-taped are in 4:3 letterbox (sometimes with a 16:9 filler border).

The race is in 480p... a little improvement over 480i.

For some reason I lost 59-1 I had to watch the race on the analog channel did a channel search on my DTC-100 and Iam getting 59-2 WTTV no WXIN anyone else having the same problem?

Brad

Originally posted by BRADH
Has anyone noticed that WTHR HD is not filling the screen on the sides? The first time I saw this was thur night but I dont watch the channel very much.

Steve your right the lip sync is getting better.

Brad

Brad,

I've always noticed that WTHR-DT does not completely fill the screen on the sides with SD programming ("Stretch-O-Rama"), but I've never noticed it with HD programming. Lately with SD programming, it does seem like the side gaps are a little wider. Also, has anyone else noticed that the SD programming now looks worse? It looks like an analog feed with bad ghosting. Every image has a ghost-like image next to it on the right (I believe this has been brought up before). I don't see this on the other locals.

Last evening, "Frasier" on WTHR-DT in HD was back to the really bad lip sync problem. Four or five times the video went out completely for several seconds while the audio continued. Could NBC or WTHR have been trying to work on it? The other local DTV's seem to have the lip sync situation very much under control. IMO, the only station in the area that's worse than WTHR-DT is WTIU-DT 14, Bloomington. Their HD PQ is wonderful, but their lip sync situation is very, very bad.

BTW, Brad, I haven't noticed any problems with WXIN-DT this week, but I was not watching it Sunday.

Steve

THE NIGHTMARE BEGINS AGAIN THIS SUNDAY!!!!!

Daylight Saving Time begins this Sunday for most of the country, so that means the nightmare begins for local tv engineers who have to digitally record all network programming and then play it back one hour later. It's bad enough for the analog side of things, but it can really get messy for the DTV side. Fingers crossed that things go smoothly this season for everyone involved.

Steve

Steve,

On WTHR-DT on there SD the sides never filled but on HD now its not, at least last week I havent watched since. Yes WTIU-DT lip sync is bad I dont even watch it, always watch WFYI-DT. I will try WXIN tonight and see if it works This this the first time I have had problems with it.

Brad

I see we now have a PAX entry on the air in central In on Ch27,remaping to 63-1.Srong signal here at 36 miles from the tower.

GregB

Ok I did a new channel search and took of guide and got WXIN-DT on 43 it must be the way they are mapping the channels.

Brad

Originally posted by goldrich
THE NIGHTMARE BEGINS AGAIN THIS SUNDAY!!!!!

Daylight Saving Time begins this Sunday for most of the country, so that means the nightmare begins for local tv engineers who have to digitally record all network programming and then play it back one hour later. It's bad enough for the analog side of things, but it can really get messy for the DTV side. Fingers crossed that things go smoothly this season for everyone involved.

Steve

It never bothered me back in the 'olden' days when the Indy channels just had the shows on 1 hr earlier.

I usually watched the Louisville channels just for that reason....

-AKH

Originally posted by goldrich
local tv engineers who have to digitally record all network programming and then play it back one hour later.

Can't they just take the Central feed? It's 1 hour later, and in essence, it's the time zone Indiana is on for the summertime.

Originally posted by bradyusi
Can't they just take the Central feed? It's 1 hour later, and in essence, it's the time zone Indiana is on for the summertime.

I thought there was only East and West coast feeds....

-AKH

Having the news on at 10pm again would be cool. I remember when you could stay up and watch the local news w/out loosing sleep. Im for keeping they shows feed on EDT and letting me get to sleep at a more reasonable hour.

Originally posted by bradyusi
Can't they just take the Central feed? It's 1 hour later, and in essence, it's the time zone Indiana is on for the summertime.

Eastern and Central time zones both use the same feed. Programs air simultaneously in both zones, so the published start times are all one hour earlier in Central. This affects more than just prime time. In Chicago or Evansville, for example, the evening network news is on at 5:30... the late local news is on at 10:00... Fox's prime-time news is on at 9:00... etc.

You have to get out to the Mountain time zone before different feeds are used.

Director Boy..

Yeah you are right. The whole concept of growing up without daylight saving time, then moving and having to change your clock twice a year doesn't gel with me. It's fundamentally wrong. Too bad I'm in the minority.

And, although we were ready for it, there's always a glitch somewhere. This time the HD Frame Sync got hung up (which I had caused, earlier in the day while doing some troubleshooting by phone) so there was no HD reception at the studio, live or otherwise, and thus no HD time-delayed to either WISH or WLFI.

Mea Culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
And, although we were ready for it, there's always a glitch somewhere. This time the HD Frame Sync got hung up (which I had caused, earlier in the day while doing some troubleshooting by phone) so there was no HD reception at the studio, live or otherwise, and thus no HD time-delayed to either WISH or WLFI.

Mea Culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering No problem. Please tell the powers to be that the NCAA boys game looked not nearly as nice as the girls (on ESPN-HD) which could have been the network's or my old friend multicast's fault.

Watching NCAA in HD via Comcast. Occasionally the audio cuts out for less than a second.. Any tips, Tom, is this a CBS, Comcast, or WISH issue? Anyone else having this problem? Have only noticed it during network programming to this point.

This isn't a new issue, just the first time I decided to ask.
Thanks!

I haven't seen any audio drop outs during the game. I do notice the 3-point line breaking up a lot and for whatever reason most of the time when they switch to moving close ups the image breaks up for a short period of time.

Only got to see the last half of the second period myself, but eveything looked as I expected. In trying to get off work on time, I forgot to drop radar for the night and give the HD the extra little skootch (?) of bandwidth, but it shouldn't have made much of a difference.

Audio seemed dropout-free to me. At my house, the surround was way too loud for the announce, but stepson may have played with my settings, so I'm not confident in saying the audio was bad.

I have a lead on something that will help Mitsu set owners get rid of the annoying audio glitch every 2 1/2 minutes - I'll post when something is worth telling.

Regards,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

FYI.. the audio drop only happened a 2 or 3 times. Nothing annoying, just thought I'd bring it to table. It was odd that the only game-time camera not in HD was the glass-cam behind the basket. I've seen these cameras (2 per goal) at Conseco when ESPN HD'd a game a few weeks back. They must be expensive or hard to come by.

I love HD.. I have this function on my tv where I can freeze the frame, and every once in a while I'll freeze it on a still shot and just look at everything. It so amazing. But I digress.. Props to WISH on the multicasting of the games.. Now.. to watch the 500 in HD... ..drools..

Originally posted by Tom Weber
And, although we were ready for it, there's always a glitch somewhere. This time the HD Frame Sync got hung up (which I had caused, earlier in the day while doing some troubleshooting by phone) so there was no HD reception at the studio, live or otherwise, and thus no HD time-delayed to either WISH or WLFI.

Mea Culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Any idea of what WANE TV in Fort Wayne is going to do about this problem.

Tom,

Will you be showing the Masters in HD on Thur. and Fri. on Wish-DT?

Thanks!

Greg

Update from Rick Poling about WTTV-DT...............................
............................................................ .................................
This is a technical note to all of our 4-1 viewers. In other words, you
watch WTTV's DTV programming on channel 53 from Trafalgar, which is usually
displayed as 4-1, but see below. If you view WTTV's DTV programming on
channel 54 from Windfall (i.e., 29-1) or you can't receive either of these,
you may disregard the rest of this note.

For the past couple of weeks or so, WTTV-DT 53 has been broadcasting the
wrong channel number. You may have noticed that your receiver was
displaying 59-2 instead of 4-1, or it may have refused to tune it
altogether. I have had a couple of emails on this, but nothing specific
enough to help me figure out what the problem was. However, one viewer
began mentioning 59-2 again (which went away on 3/1 officially), and it made
me curious. I checked the data stream on WTTV-DT, and, sure enough, the
channel number was showing 59-2. The problem has now been corrected. The
problem occured after we shuffled some of our DTV equipment around a couple
weeks ago.

So, if you watch WTTV-DT you should make sure you can still tune it OK. If
not, you may need to do a new channel scan to erase the memory of 59-2 and
get 4-1 back in your list. Or, on many sets you may punch in 53-1 directly
and the receiver will tune to channel 53, decode 4-1, and add it to your
list.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. Thanks for
watching WTTV-DT.

Rick Poling
RF Supervisor
WTTK-TV 29
WTTK-DT 54
WTTV-TV WB 4
WTTV-DT 53
WXIN-TV FOX 59
WXIN-DT 45

Sorry for the delay in responding - my computer crashed, and I've spend the better part of 2 days getting all my data moved to the new hard drive and reinstalling programs, instead of actual useful work - grrr!

Oh, well, at least my data is intact.

I hope that you've been enjoying the Masters in HD. I just watched Arnold Palmer's last Masters hole from my office here.

Regards,

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Earlier this evening I received this email from Paul Roehm at WRTV.....
............................................................ ..............................................


I know that you haunt the message boards. Our Multiplexer/PSIP generator
developed a fatal problem and is going to have to go back to the
manufacturer. So, no PSIP for the next few weeks, and some people are going
to have to rescan.

p:

Paul Roehm
WRTV, Indianapolis
paul_roehm@wrtv.com

Not quite sure how this is related to the previous post, but WRTV now remaps to 6-1 for me. It's really handy, because I now get guide info. I don't know if the previous lack of remapping will be an issue for the HDTivo or not, but I like it the way it is now.

bakem

Tom,

Great Job on the Masters... Really enjoyed all 4 days of coverage.

Thanks!

Greg

I enjoyed the coverage also and I must say that it looked just as good as DirecTV's HD feed.

I saw that WRTV was having problems with their Multiplexer/PSIP generator. Is this the reason I can only find WRTV 25-2 on the air?
I cannot seem to find WRTV 6-1.

Originally posted by kokguy
I saw that WRTV was having problems with their Multiplexer/PSIP generator. Is this the reason I can only find WRTV 25-2 on the air?
I cannot seem to find WRTV 6-1.


Update from Paul at WRTV-DT........................................

"A loaner multiplexer/PSIP generator is online as of noon on Wednesday.
It will still brand as 25, but the PSIP and guide tables should be
present again."

Paul Roehm
WRTV, Indianapolis

Originally posted by goldrich
Update from Paul at WRTV-DT........................................

"A loaner multiplexer/PSIP generator is online as of noon on Wednesday.
It will still brand as 25, but the PSIP and guide tables should be
present again."

Paul Roehm
WRTV, Indianapolis

And with that, I'm back to WRTV mapping to 25-1. It was nice to have guide data for the two and a half days that I did. Is this just something I'm going to have to live with with my SAT-520? I've seen that others are able to get it on 6-1. If I go for the HD-TIVO, will this be a problem, or are Hughes boxes (i.e. the E86) able to correct for it?

bakem

Originally posted by bakem84
And with that, I'm back to WRTV mapping to 25-1. It was nice to have guide data for the two and a half days that I did. Is this just something I'm going to have to live with with my SAT-520? I've seen that others are able to get it on 6-1. If I go for the HD-TIVO, will this be a problem, or are Hughes boxes (i.e. the E86) able to correct for it?

bakem I think you will have to live with it... my Sony HD200 does the same thing. My Sony HD300 however does the remapping fine. I just add the 6.1 channel (even though it doesn't work) to my list of channels that way I can at least check the schedule of 25.1.

I wrote them a long time ago or heard via another method since they will eventually be giving up channel 6 they don't want to remap to it... seems strange to me.

Yeah, I had heard that, too. Seems strange to me that they wouldn't have zap2it put the guide data on 25-1, then, too. Oh well. As long as other receivers can handle it, there is hope for the Tivo, which has been a real question for me all along.

bakem

With the announcement of all the NFL HD games on FOX this season, I was wondering if there is any news or updates from our local Indianapolis affiliate on how things are going as they work on their HD system.

I just got my HD100 receiver back and it seems to be working good but I have a question. Did WTHR move their primary channel from 13.1 to 13.2? When I put the receiver in and did an auto program all the locals came in just fine. Only thing is 13.1 is the news channel and 13.2 is the primary broadcast. Is my reciever forked up?

fgr41,

My new LG receiver (LST-3100) is indicating WTHR-DT on 13-1 and "Skytrak" on 13-2. No change here.

Steve

Not HD question.. but since ya'll are 'in the know'...

Called comcast, questioned only having one audio channel (right) on WRTV cable 5. They hadn't a clue. Is anyone else having this problem with Comcast Digital? It is only WRTV, all 1,000 other channels have either stereo or split mono audio.

** yeah.. problem fixed **

I want my ABC HD.. if the Pacers get past the second round I want to see it in High Def (gives me a reason to have a party). Any progress on having Comcast carry ABC HD?

being on page 5 stinks.. **bump the thread**

Are there any current issues with channel 4 now?
I am in Elwood, just a few minutes from Windfall.

Haven't had my DTC100 on in a few weeks, hard to get away from UTV lol.

Tried to watch Smallville in HD last night but I can't find a ditigal channel 4 anywhere. If I enter 29-1 it goes right to 29. Nothing on 4-1. Tried tuning to 53 or whatever like is mentioned a few posts up...nothing.

Did a full channel scan, still no DT4.

I have about a 3ft old style antenna that has always done fine...it's pointing towards Indy......

I would think I could get the Windfall channel 4 with Rabbit ears eh?

eric4210,

Here at 7:55 p.m. I'm receiving WTTK-DT 54 (29-1 remapped). I live south of Carmel and I'm 29 miles from the tower in Windfall. Depending on tropospheric conditions, sometimes I can receive it and sometimes I can't. DTV signals can be very particular, and I've found that aiming my outside antenna is very important for a strong signal. Good luck.

Steve

Thanks for the reply. :) I tuned to channel 54 and it remapped me to 29-1, finally!!

Now I at least will be able to adjust the antenna for it.....

I might try rabbit ears on my second antenna input. Or maybe a uhf??
Hmm, antenna web, here I come. lol

Recently I have been out of the loop on the happenings with HD channels here in Indy. I am becoming very disappointed about the lack of 5.1 broadcast on the NBC and ABC HD channels. If I remember correctly about half of the ABC MNF games were in 5.1 but it stopped all of the sudden. The engineer for WRTV emailed me and said they had a problem but were working on it. That was like 7 months ago. Does anyone have any updates or knowledge about this.? HD is great, but without 5.1 it can be somewhat disappointing. NBC doesn't broadcast anything that I feel would be enhanced by 5.1, but ABC definitely does and will.

Originally posted by goldrich
THE NIGHTMARE BEGINS AGAIN THIS SUNDAY!!!!!

Daylight Saving Time begins this Sunday for most of the country, so that means the nightmare begins for local tv engineers who have to digitally record all network programming and then play it back one hour later. It's bad enough for the analog side of things, but it can really get messy for the DTV side. Fingers crossed that things go smoothly this season for everyone involved.

Steve

This is my VERY first post on AVS forum, so go easy on me. :)

Why do they delay the shows and hour here in Indianapolis? I grew up in Terre Haute, and for years I loved watching TV in the summer because Carson would come on at 10:30 instead of 11:30. Once Emmis bought WTHI (CBS) in Terre Haute, they started the practice of tape delaying. It is so annoying! Having the shows on an hour earlier in the summer is so much more enjoyable, and although I don't watch American Idol, my sisters tell me the phone lines to call in and vote are closed by the time the show is aired in Indy. Has anyone else thought NOT delaying is a good idea?

I bought my HDTV and receiver 3 weeks ago. The first week, Special Victims Unit was on in high definition on 13-1. The past two weeks, SVU has not appeared to be in high def at all. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a regular problem with WTHR? I don't think my settings have changed. I get shows on WISH and WRTV in high def just fine.

Originally posted by jasonblair
I bought my HDTV and receiver 3 weeks ago. The first week, Special Victims Unit was on in high definition on 13-1. The past two weeks, SVU has not appeared to be in high def at all. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a regular problem with WTHR? I don't think my settings have changed. I get shows on WISH and WRTV in high def just fine.
I noticed last week's show seemed to not be in HD. It seems that WTHR-
DT doesn't have the time shifting thing down very good. Lots of glitches. They could take some notes from WISH-DT. I don't recall any time shifting related glitches on 8.

Ken

Originally posted by jasonblair
This is my VERY first post on AVS forum, so go easy on me. :)

Why do they delay the shows and hour here in Indianapolis? I grew up in Terre Haute, and for years I loved watching TV in the summer because Carson would come on at 10:30 instead of 11:30. Once Emmis bought WTHI (CBS) in Terre Haute, they started the practice of tape delaying. It is so annoying! Having the shows on an hour earlier in the summer is so much more enjoyable, and although I don't watch American Idol, my sisters tell me the phone lines to call in and vote are closed by the time the show is aired in Indy. Has anyone else thought NOT delaying is a good idea?

If Indiana would just stick to one time zone, things would be much easier.

So vote appropriately, today!

One gubernatorial candidate favors Central Time, the other favors a referendum, according to the Indy Star. Do your own reasearch on which is which - I don't want to be accused of favoritism <g>!

Regards,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
So vote appropriately, today!

One gubernatorial candidate favors Central Time, the other favors a referendum, according to the Indy Star. Do your own reasearch on which is which - I don't want to be accused of favoritism <g>!

Regards,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Well Tom, my guy Daniels ran away with it... but I still don't see whether or not we are EST or CDT has anything to do with why the stations in Indy delay the shows an hour. Have you ever asked your programming people why they do it? Do they think people or stupid enough to not figure out that when they say "9, 8 central" that it will be on at 8 in the summer and 9 in the winter? We as Hoosiers deal with that all the time in all other aspects of life... so why make us wait an extra hour to find out whether Rupert wins Survivor? Who can I write to to have tehm stop delaying the shows? (JOIN ME PEOPLE!... this is www.politicsforum.com, right? ;) )

Jason Blair
(PS - I 69 should go through Bloomington... have you ever SEEN the semi traffic on I-70?????)

Originally posted by jasonblair
Well Tom, my guy Daniels ran away with it... but I still don't see whether or not we are EST or CDT has anything to do with why the stations in Indy delay the shows an hour. Have you ever asked your programming people why they do it?Like most everything else I think it's a money thing. By delaying the shows (during the summer) they have a larger (potential) audience I'm guessing.

Charles R is almost right.

By delaying prime time, Indianapolis and Terre Haute and Fort Wayne stations each get to continue airing two (2) half-hour syndicated programs between 7:00 and 8:00 PM (Monday through Saturday), the so-called "local access" period.

This allows airing more local commericals and thus increases local advertising revenue.

And by keeping the late local news at 11:00 PM year round, it eliminates the need for two sets of graphics and animations for openings and promotional announcements for "The Late News", "The 10:00 News", "The 11:00 News", etc., which reduces storage space and related costs for producing, scheduling, etc.

Basically, it's a revenue thing.

But say Indiana Legislature adopts Daylight Savings Time. Then they also need to decide whether Eastern or Central zone.

If Eastern, then late news always at 11:00 PM, and if Central, then late news always at 10:00 (and bye-bye to additional revenue from local access period).

There is some thought that the larger number of HUTs (Homes Using Television - it's a ratings term) during the 10:00 News would offset the lower revenues from not having the full "access" time period, but as with any economic issue, it's only a theory until it happens - then you find out which economist was right.

I believe it's the US Government that where the Eastern/Central time line runs. If I'm correct, it's either Commerce or Transportation. The state gets to decide if it's going to observe DST or not.

I grew up in Chicago, so I think 11:00 is too late for News. N.B. - That opinion is my own only - and likely NOT that of my employer <g>.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Daylight savings time has been the way it is because when it was passed farmers had a much larger number of reps and senators in state government. They did not want to keep changing their clocks during the year. As for me it does not matter. That is what a VCR or PVR is for. Now can someone explain why the base video signal on WRTV for the NBA playoff games looks like they are using HD cameras but the transmission signal looks worse than the analog broadcast signal? The Monday night football broadcast signal is much better, along with all of the normal HD broadcast schedule. And also sorry to say the SD rebroadcast of the Pacer games of ESPN HD by WTTV 53-1 spanks what I saw Sunday during the Laker/San Antonio.

Are you getting 5.1 for the WRTV feeds?

And also sorry to say the SD rebroadcast of the Pacer games of ESPN HD by WTTV 53-1 spanks what I saw Sunday during the Laker/San Antonio.
WTTV doesn't "rebroadcast" an ESPN broadcast, it's a separate local production. I agree, though, that WTTV & WXIN do a better job with SD material on the HD stations than the other local channels.

On the other hand, something was wrong at Channel 59 last night. They showed the FOX widescreen feed but forgot to turn off the 4:3 pillar box effect. All the fox shows were distorted (extra tall and thin), and "The Simpsons" had double-size black bars on each side.

Quick note about DST in Indiana. AFAIR, in the middle 1950's, the Indiana legislature put Indiana on DST all year around, even though it technically stayed on CST. This made Indiana seem like it was in the 'EST' zone. If Indiana tried to stay in sync with NY, then it would be a double DST whammy. The problem is that alot of DST again advocates seem to want Indiana to move to be in sync with NYC, but that would be technically the wrong thing to do. If anything, Indiana should remove the DST from one half of the year, and then be in sync with Chicago.

For people of my age and younger, we don't remember Indiana being CST, and it always seemed like we were 'EST', but that isn't technically true.

Too bad the advocates wouldn't explain the situation more accurately, and if we were going to do a double DST, at least we'd know it :-).

Don't forget the gyrations (I'm told of - wasn't a Hoosier back then) when the time zone line ran between Indy and Bloomington. Legend has it that the folks around Nashville tried to split the difference - did a half hour offset - and called it "half fast" time. (Say it quickly.) And that's exactly the kind of idea THAT was.

Sounds awfully close to an Urban Legend, tho!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I was flipping channels during a Pacers timeout last night and I noticed that "Still Standing" wasn't in HD on WISH. Was that a national thing, or is/was something wrong at Channel 8? (I didn't check back for the other CBS shows.)

Regarding 'half time' (Toms post), I sure hope that your claim wasn't true. However, the Indiana legislature trying to play games with PI was apparently indeed true (so maybe, maybe not? :-)).

Regarding the DST thing, however. If it is indeed true that the Indiana government has control of DST, and the commerce department or legislature 'owns' the timezones, then it would probably need federal government approval to change from central to eastern time (to be in sync with NY.)

The frustrating thing is that the rhetoric about DST seldom explains the history associated with it. Recently, a radio station implied that it was regressive to avoid DST, but it is seldom explained that Indiana is actually more 'progressive' by having DST all year around, and starting it in 1950's. (I have heard other uninformed comments, akin to 'Gods time' shouldn't be messed with, but I hope that we don't 'go there' :-)).

I can remember in the late 60's and even into the late 80's that I could tune to the Indy stations (8, 13) and watch a program there under Eastern time and then tune to Terre Haute (10 & 2 respective network channels) and watch them under the Central time period. They finally switched and all broadcast under the same time period. From my years as a Communications officer with the State Police, as I remember the Sellersburg post, Evansville post, and Lowell post all switched their time and it was fun fir us broadcast our call sign and time at 6 am and they were all different on times....except when they got to go home from a midnight shift before I did......

Okay.. I didn't mean to set off a big debate on time zones to this extent... (Sorry to everyone logging on here to talk AVS stuff)

BUT... I was iffy on a lot of what was being said, so I did my legal research.. (I was sworn in to the Indiana Bar on Monday after all, time to put my skills to use!)

Most of Indiana is officially on EASTERN STANDARD TIME, and we DO NOT observe Daylight Savings Time. There is currently no federal legislation that I found regarding what time zone a state must be in. The only federal legslation in effect requires states to observe standard time zones. (This is opposed to the old way of telling time, which was done by making noon when the sun was at the high point in the sky... thus making Greenfield a few minutes ahead of Indianapolis, for example.)

Indiana Law permits counties to set their own time though, which is why you have counties up near Chicago and down by Evansville going with Central Time... which confuses me to death... I know I might need to change my watch when I cross a state line, but I don't think "I'm going into Gibson County... time to set my watch back."

Many people who have tried to get Indiana to observe Daylight Savings Time or go to the Central Time Zone have not been successful at the state level. People feel comfortable not changing clocks because they grew up not changing them... so why start now? (I have to say I agree... Daylight Savings Time is stupid. 47 States are stupid, not us.) However, because they have not been successful in the Indiana Legislature, a few people have talked about getting Federal Legislation passed, claiming that the Federal Government would have a right to set our time zone in the interest of "Interstate Commerce." I think it's a stretch to say our time zone situation is hurting commerce in the state, but the Commerce Clause usually can be used to justify just about any kind of Federal legislation.

My only point was, I wish the local TV stations did not tape delay network shows an hour in the summer. If you know anyone who has control over programming, let them know that we want our shows when they get aired to the rest of the eastern half of the country!

And on to my next topic...

My family lives in Terre Haute, and the NBC and Fox affiliates there are AWFUL! WBAK (Fox) and WTWO (NBC) are broadcasting in digital... AT 480i !!!! Additionally, WTWO does not even yet broadcast in STEREO! Is this the 1970's?

WTHI (CBS) is actually broadcasting in 1080i, but I am wondering if anyone knows whether NBC or Fox have any kind of agreement with their affiliates regarding the quality of their presentation of network shows? Could NBC force WTWO to start broadcasting in STEREO at least? Or drop their affiliation or something? At least that way my family could get another NBC feed from DirecTV or something that would be in stereo. Do the networks have a timeline when they expect all of their affiliates to be broadcasting in 720p or 1080i? 5 years? 10 years? Ever?

It would seem to me that major networks would have some sort of quality control clause in their affiliation contracts.

What can be done? Is there any hope?

Hello,

I wanted to let the subscribers and readers of this thread know that there is thread for Comcast HD in Indy.

The reason I'm letting everyone know about this is that I am asking for assistance in getting WRTV-DT (ABC -- NBA Eastern Conference Finals and NBA Finals) carried by comcast.

If interested, here is a link to the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3816051#post3816051

Thanks,
JJK

which confuses me to death... I know I might need to change my watch when I cross a state line, but I don't think "I'm going into Gibson County... time to set my watch back."
<snip>
I think it's a stretch to say our time zone situation is hurting commerce in the state


So, you are confused and you live in this state. Imagine setting up meetings with other parts of the country (or even other parts of the state). Any kind of deadline issue that might be in effect for business. Or people who might only do business in Indiana occasionally. All this can hurt commerce in the state.

Regarding the Indiana timezone history... You can see the
transition in the middle 1950s from this database. More
rightfully, Indiana should be central WRT geography and
history:

Zone America/Indianapolis -5:44:38 - LMT 1883 Nov 18 12:00
-6:00 US C%sT 1920
-6:00 Indianapolis C%sT 1942
-6:00 US C%sT 1946
-6:00 Indianapolis C%sT 1955 Apr 24 2:00
-5:00 - EST 1957 Sep 29 2:00
-6:00 - CST 1958 Apr 27 2:00
-5:00 - EST 1969
-5:00 US E%sT 1971
-5:00 - EST

It would be interesting (but off topic) to get into the minds
of those who changed the timezones...

John

As much as many of us would like to see all of our favorite shows on one hour earlier than they are now I am concerned that a switch to full-time Central Time will create more problems than it solves. Solar noon in Indianapolis is actually around 12:30. Sunset on December 21 is just after 5 p.m. Do the citizens of this state really want a 4 p.m. sunset in winter? I, for one, would rather have my daylight at the end of the day instead of while I'm still struggling to get out of bed in the morning. I think of the people with outside jobs who must stop early because of darkness, students getting off their school busses in the late twilight. Interestingly Michigan's west coast (the east coast of the Lake) is west of Indy yet observes eastern time. Sunset at 10 p.m.? Sounds great to me.

Just my two cents. I'm new to the forum, just got HDTV (Panny PT-L500U and Samsung receiver), and am tickled to death with the results.

Greg

Tom,
I have been watching channel 8 hd for several years now and I am unable to get it as of now. All the other indy channels are coming in strong but channel 8.1 is around 26 to 30 on the signal strength meter do you know what is going on?

Brad

Brad,

Just checked 8.1 here and everything is fine. My signal meter read as high as it ever has...

Charles,

I dont know whats going on but every other channel that I get is coming in fine, 8.1 just wont come in I also did a channel search on my dtc 100 and still no channel 8. I hope that it come back some.

Brad

Sunset at 10 p.m.? Sounds great to me.
Sounds terrible to me. (It's hard enough getting the kids to bed at 9:00.) Sunset at 4:00 p.m. sounds awful too. I, for one, am perfectly happy with the time situation the way it is.

I didn't mean to imply that I preferred Eastern time over Central. I, too, would like things to remain as they are, no matter what the business lobby thinks.

Greg

Originally posted by BRADH
Tom,
I have been watching channel 8 hd for several years now and I am unable to get it as of now. All the other indy channels are coming in strong but channel 8.1 is around 26 to 30 on the signal strength meter do you know what is going on?

Brad

Hi Brad,

Although strong tropospheric ducting this month has been virtually nonexistent, your reception problem with WISH-DT 9 could be related to tropo conditions, especially if you were trying to receive it around midnight. It could be that an analog channel 9, like WCPO, Cincinnati or WNIN, Evansville might be strong enough from time to time to interfere with WISH-DT just enough to reduce the DT signal. I see that problem at my location with channel 11. Sometimes when tropo conditions elevate the signal from WHAS, Louisville, it really toys with or destroys the signal from WLFI-DT, Lafayette.

Tom doesn't want to hear the answer to this one, but, in your location, can you receive WLKY-DT 26 (CBS), Louisville? It has a pretty good signal over southern Indiana, in fact I occasionally see it here at my location.

Steve

Steve,

I have seen it channel 26 a few times. This is the first time that WISH has not came in for me in several years. I will try it tonight and see what I get and report back. thanks Steve.

Brad

<<< Although strong tropospheric ducting this month has been virtually nonexistent, >>>
My reception of all Indianapolis stations has been quite a bit worse for the last three or four days. Seems at its worst when it's hot and muggy.
I live in Bloomington and have a very nice Wingard antenna temporarily mounted indoors. Until just lately, I had very few drop outs. Now they're regularly occuring, even with digital channel 8 (channel 9), which has the strongest Indy signal in my location.
Is this "tropospheric ducting" or is this type of problem normal during hot humid days?
As my question would indicate, I am not an expert in the subject of antennas and digital reception.
Nat

Nat,

Tropospheric ducting ("pipeline")refers to atmospheric conditions relating to weather/frontal conditions which affect radio and television signals and allows them to travel much further than normal, sometimes several hundred miles. Many times during these conditions local stations can be interfered with or occasionally totally wiped out by other stations on the same channels. During the summer months we generally see some of these conditions and when it occurs the effects are generally much more pronounced during the evening and overnight hours.

I hope this makes some sense. Your own reception situation may or may not be related to this. Here's the link to the tropospheric ducting forecast map which is updated daily.........http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html It could be something else.

Steve

Has anyone else noticed that Jay Leno hasn't been in High Def for 2 weeks on channel 13-1? I thought last week was not in HD just because he was in Las Vegas instead of Burbank, but WTHR did not air this week in HD either, even though he was back in Los Angeles.

Anyone know why that is? WTHR seems to be airing most of NBC's prime time high def content just fine. (FINALLY!) But what's up with Leno now?

Steve;
Thanks for the information!
<<< For radio & TV stations, ducting can cause unwanted interference from distant stations on the same channel >>>
My situation in Bloomington is that with the antenna indoors, I'm pretty much right on the "ragged edge" of getting an acceptable digital signal.
I'll bet a distant station interfering is a very real possibility. It is amazing to me how multipath interference can "cancel out" my one strong local station. (Using two different antennas pointed in different directions and then joining them together doesn't work on the strong local channel. The fuzzy signal on the misaligned antenna wipes out the very strong digital signal cominng from the antenna pointing right at the transmitter.)
Thanks for the web site. If nothing else, it's a visual delight! I'll check for my own information and see if my reception is worse on the days the site says are good days for ducting.
Nat

Steve,

Sat. and Sun I was able to get WISH-DT but only at and avg. of 42 to 46 which is about half what I normally get. The only thing that bothers me is that for the last 3 or 4yrs I have never had this problem and it only on WISH-DT while the other Indy channels are still coming at 92 on WTHR-DT, 88 on WFYI-DT 90 on WRTV-DT , WXIN-DT 88 WTTV-DT 89 and so on. Do you think that it could be WISH-DT?

Brad

Brad,
I'm not positive about your box but in general the signal strength display is really a measure of signal quality. IE a good weak signal will have a higher indication then a strong one frought with multipath or other interference. All the other stations you mention are in the UHF band AFAIK but WISH-DT is VHF. That can make a difference in how far a station on the same channel normally in another market carries. Lower frequencies like VHF carry further whereas UHF is pretty much line of sight. So it could be an issue like tropospheric tunnelling like was mentioned before or different atmosperic conditions changing the multipath or who knows. This would give a lower signal indication even though the strength may not have changed. RF propagation makes my head hurt.

Not sure what to say - everything is humming along fine here at 100% as per normal. Tropo ducting etc. certainly could have been worse the past few days, with the humidity way up and the storm fronts moving through. How is reception today, with the atmosphere significantly more stable than it has been?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

Iam still at work and will check again tonight and will report back.

Brad

Brad............

My set does not have a signal meter but have had no problems with channel 8 reception.

Randy,

It had gotten better over the weekend, but still half what it was. Its just weird the fist time in all these years

Brad

Brad,

I spoke too soon....the last 5 minutes of CSI Miami fuzzed out with. I have thought for about a month one my Distribution Amp might be bad. I have my antenna split 3 ways behind my Mits, one to the HD tuner, one to the Analog, and the last to my HK receiver for FM, and have plans to replace it but I think the SHack no longer produces one of these so I will be checking Channel Master.

I have noticed that 23 (32.1) just will not come in as it did during the summer and fall last year. But since you are on a hilltop and I am in the base of a valley that could be part of the explaination....but I may upgrade my uhf to the largest one Channel Master offers.

Randy,

Last night I lost 8.1 it went down to mid 20's on the meter so I tried moving the antenna with the rotor and just moving it a few marks lost 8.1 completely so to make things worse I switched to 8 analog and it was so bad I couldnt watch it then it went away also. I looked at other lower channels in analog and 6 was fine but 13 was bad but its digital was coming in at a nice 90 to 92 no problems. I lost 23.1 last as well it was coming in a around 70 or so and then it dropped in the 20's and the 23 analog was cutting in and out as well.

It just dont make much since to me because I have never had any problems with any of these channels for several years, and now I am having all kinds of problems and you are as well. I wish there were more people around here in the Spencer area with OTA DT so we could see if they are having the problem. If its the weather its the first time for me.

Brad

I posted this in the main section, but Tom suggested checking in this thread.

I live just a bit North of Muncie, IN. Last night, I got my mast and antenna installed. I'm using a CM3671 antenna with a CM7777 pre-amp. According to antennaweb I'm between 45-50 miles from the stations I'm looking to get. After getting everything hooked up, I'm really getting great results. I'm picking up 5 digital stations all between 65 and 90 on the HDTivo signal meter.
Now here's the problem. The local ABC station 6-1 or 25 is showing a 70ish percent signal on the OTA meter, but I'm not getting a picture. All of the other stations are great, including CBS which is the lowest strength I'm getting. Is there an issue with channel 6 out of Indianapolis? I only checked last night, so I'll check again tonight.

Thanks,

tcoffman,

6.1 is 720p if that makes any difference to your TiVO/Display device... and how is the analog channel 6?

post count bump for urls - tcoffman help is coming...

post count bump for urls - tcoffman help is coming...closer....

Sorry about this mods... just trying to get some helpful urls into my response.

Hey tcoffman,
I live on the NW edge of Muncie and have the HDDirectTivo as well. WRTV ABC shows up on 25-1 on my tuner and also on my guide (with only "regular programming" listed as guide info). I get no signal on 6-1 but leave it in my guide so I can check the schedule because it has the proper schedule info.

Before I got the HDTivo I had a HD Directv receiver, a couple of antennas and a pre-amp and everything was fine. When I got my HDTivo my OTA reception took a nosedive and I lost nearly everything. After reading on the Tivo Community forums that the OTA tuner in the HDTivo is extremely sensitive to being overamplified I ended up adding an attenuator to my system and it worked. All the channels and signal strengths came back like gangbusters!

It sounds crazy. With my previous receiver (Hughes HTL-HD) I had worked and worked to get enough signal strength to watch the Indy digital stations OTA (really had to work to get WISH which is on VHF 9). Now with the HD Tivo here I was adding attenuation loss back into the system, what's up with that? Well, I am running both a Wineguard preamp and a Radio Shack variable 0-20db attenuator on my system and it works!

I am wondering if your preamp is swamping your HDTivo receiver for the WRTV signal but not the others. Try the variable attenuator and perhaps you can dial in a happy medium that allows the WRTV signal to get though and still has enough strength for the other stations. It worked for me and its an inexpensive solution if it works and a no risk experiment since RS will normally accept returns in good condition within a reasonable time. Since the attenuator goes in near your receiver rather than on the mast you can immediately see the results and fine tune the loss to a point that will work for all stations.

Here are some links to help:
TV/CATV Attenuator 15-678 ~$9
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-678
Remember you'll also need a short piece of coax to put the attenuator in-line right before the receiver's antenna input.

Tivo Community Thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174792

Hope this helps.
jculp99

Brad,

Just a fyi they took me off the sales floor and put me in management...well as of 7-1-2004. I have 3 or 4 customers in the Spencer area with HD Integrated or with the tuner receiving signal. One lives between Fish Creek and Vandalia off of SR 46 and is getting it all. I allegedly have the largest preamp that Channel Master offers and you can see my tv antenna's from your office. I will probably continue with upgrading the UHF antenna....can't get anything larger for vhf from Channel Master....will verify that the pre amp is what they say and will get a new distribution amp.

As for Radio Shack.....(being a previous manager) they have scaled back a lot of their product line. At my current work (HH Gregg) if you look all the big amp's for the signals in the store come from Channel Master.

Randy,

My amp is channel master and it seem to be working fine. Have you looked to see if you are getting channel 8 tonight and 23?

Brad

Steve,

I did a channel search and with out moving my antenna I still cant get WISH-DT or UPN 23.1. But I am picking up WLKY-DT 32.1 with the antenna aimed at Indy and when I turn it south I get real nice signal strength so I do have CBS-HD just not from Indy. Steve is UPN 23.1 in the 30's if you are not remapping the channels?

Any ideas on WISH-DT and UPN sinse 2 of us down here are having problems?

Thanks
brad

Ok, there's a couple of possibilities from what I'm seeing. Number 1, my display will not show 720p. Won't the HDTivo upvert that to 1080i though? If that's the case, I'll try the attenuator. I've read that forum over on Tivocommunity, but I thought I'd check here for some people trying to get the same stations. :)

tcoffman,

From what I've read, many of the newer DTV receivers have small, built-in signal amplifiers. If you are already amplifying the signal, and then that signal hits the built-in amplifier, the signal can actually be too strong. I've already seen this at my location. Depending on how I have my antenna system configured, I've actually canceled out stations by pushing too much amplified signal into the receiver. By using an attenuator or by simply using a 3 or 4-way signal splitter, which bleeds off just enough signal, at least for me, I can get around this situation. It can be a touchy situation which may require some trial and error time.

Get luck with getting yours in working order. Let us know how it goes.

Steve

Brad,

First of all, congratulations on receiving WLKY-DT 26 so well. I don't know your exact location in Spencer, but by using the coordinates of downtown Spencer and then the coordinates of WLKY's tower at Floyd's Knob, you are 81 miles away with the tower to your SE @ 141 degrees. That's a good distance for a tv signal. Meanwhile you are 73 miles from WNDY's tower north of Noblesville, and 51 miles from the WISH tower.

Tom Weber at WISH reported that all is well at the WISH-DT transmitter site so I am still baffled as to what might be causing the signal problems for you and Randy. I don't see any info about any new digital stations on ch. 9 just signing on.

Regarding WNDY-DT, yes, their channel is 32. Knowing how powerful WLKY's analog signal is on ch. 32, I wouldn't be surprised if this station would cause you some occasional interference problems with WNDY-DT 32. The analog signal mixing with the digital signal can cause decoding problems in the receiver. Until the analog stations are turned off, many areas are experiencing signal problems caused by overlapping signals from analog and digital stations.

Hopefully we'll figure out something regarding your weak WISH-DT signal.

Steve

What do you see on channel 9 of an analog receiver hooked up to your DTV antenna ?

It should show only random noise with no hint of any analog ch. 9 skipping in from, say, Chicago.

Steve,
Tonight WISH-DT is coming in a lot better even though its storming out only cutting in and out a few times. One thing I have always forgot to ask you is for over a year or so I get channel 47 analog and it MTV-2 it doesnt come in very well most of the time in black and white but its always there when I do a channel search any ideas? Plus WIPX-DT 63.1 is up and running all I have seen is upconvertion so far, it comes in at about 88. I got UPN 23.1 back at a nice 67 to 71 as well. WTIU-DT 30.1 must be running full power I get it at 97 and Iam not aimed towards there tower, the audio delay is getting a little better as well.

I just thought it was interesting that channel 47 MTV-2 was coming in OTA
Steve you asked were I live its on a hill about 4 miles east of Spencer on 46, and its pretty high so thats why I get some of the Kentucky channel and Lafayette and Vincennes.

Brad

George,

As for me.....(Brad lives 3-4 miles east of me and on a hill. I live in the north east part of Spencer (which is in a valley) at the base of a hill (approx 100 yards) that blocks direct line of sight for me. I have a 30 ft tower with a rotor and a separate UHF (Channelmaster 4348 Diamond Yagi) and a "really big" Vhf also from channel master. The Vhf is at least 24 feet long. Off the rotor is a 10 piece of antenna pipe where the antennas are secured.
Behind my Mits WS65869 I have a Radio Shack distribution amp splitting the antenna to the HD tuner in the Mits, analog on ant A and the a third to my HK for stereo. I can tun in Louisville analog, all the Indy stations, also just got 63.1 (2, 3, &4 sub channels), Terre Haute, and analog 16 Olney Illinois but never get 9 from Chicago (and I have tried). Also nothing from Lafayette.

Now in my cop days up in Noblesville (i lived 4 miles due south of 23's tower) I used a decent log-periodic antenna from Radio Shack (before they stopped selling them) and got great reception.....Terre Haute, Lafayette, Dayton, Louisville to name a few.

Here in Spencer I have had some interference from a VHF repeater sight for either Hulman Field or Indy Int'l Airport. But this interference was on analog channel 6 and trust me multiple RF chokes were used to eliminate outside interference (and are still being used).

I am going to check that my pre-amp is the largest Channel Master offers and maybe up grade the UHF and go from there. I may be forced to jump onto Insight to backup my Locals and access their HD package, I work for Greggs and we cannot seem to keep Dish Hd receivers in stock....and D#& refused to upgrade my equipment (and I pay them 1400 a year hmmmmmmmmm).

Hey not trying to get off the subject....Has anyone else watched "The Battle of the Bulge" on HD Net Movies??? All I can say is WOW!!!!!!!

Hey Brad,

Yes, WIPX-DT 27 (PAX), recently signed on. It is cranking some good power from its tower in Trafalgar, next to WTTV's tower. Channel 47 (analog) is low-power WBXI-CA, Indy. It's been on the air since the mid to late 80's, with various music video feeds. Its current source is MTV2. Here's a great website link for identifying TV stations. The info is compiled and presented by Doug Smith, Pleasant View, TN. He's very knowledgeable in the field and a TV DXer...............
http://home.earthlink.net/~w9wi/tvdb/index.htm

Just to give you a great example of what "Mother Nature" can do with TV signals, check out this link..... www.dxfm.com Scroll down about 3 frames and look for "DX Alert!" Three of my DXing friends, in IN and KY, were able to receive and decode KOTA-DT 2, Rapid City, SD last evening around 7:30 (Indiana time...EST). This was a fantastic catch, especially for DTV. I was outside and missed it! This is the kind of activity, especially this time of year, that can bring in stations from hundreds of miles away, but at the same time, mess up our local stations.

Steve

Hey Steve,

What about MTV-2. What do you think about me getting it?

Brad

I have a quick question --

I'm about to ditch my Comcast digital cable w/HD and get the new HD DirecTIVO (if I can ever find one!). It integrates the local digital channels received from an OTA antenna.

I'm not familiar where the local stations are broadcast from, or how strong the HD signals are. I live a little bit south of Keystone at the Crossing (near 80th street and Keystone) -- do you all think I should be able to receive all the local HD stations with an antenna mounted in my attic?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,

You should be able to receive all the locals without any issues. Here is a good Web site to check out all the antennas.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Thanks, Charles - that's a very helpful site!

And see ya, Comcast...

Randy,
I started playing with the rotor on my antenna tonight and aiming it almost south get my in the high 70's and low 80's on WISH-DT but when its almost north 40's. it use to be in the low 90's anyway you may want to try that its is coming in fine and a bonus is that 13.1WTHR. 25.1(channel 6) WFYI 20.1, FOX 59.1 and WIPX-DT 63.1 are all in the 80's still even with the antenna facing south.

Do you still get 10 or 10.1WTHI? I get the analog Crystal clear for 10, 2 and 38 but no digital. The last time I check which was a long time ago 10 was broadcasting in HD Iam not getting it any more just wondered if you still can?

Steve, the funny thing is with antenna facing south I lost KLKY-DT. Do you know or anyone else if most of the Indy channels are using more power for digital than they are for analog? Because most of the analog channel are bad even if the digital ones are coming in strong.

One more thing is anyone having any problems with 4.1 WTTV-DT I was getting in nice and strong, but as of right now its gone no matter were the antenna is facing.

Brad

Brad,

Just a thought.........Have you physically looked at your outdoor antenna to see what direction it is pointing and then checked the readout on your rotor box to make sure the two are synchronized? From your comments, it sounds as though your antenna is not really aimed in the right direction.

I haven't noticed any problems with WTTV-DT 53 (4.1). This morning it is just fine. And as for you receiving WLKY-DT on a daily basis, that probably won't happen. Finding that you are around 80 miles from their tower, that's really too far to receive a good, consistent signal all the time. The weather and tropospheric conditions will greatly affect your ability to receive this station or any station that far away.

As per your comment about the output power of area stations, that varies a lot, and it also depends on whether the station is UHF or VHF. A UHF station generally needs a lot more power than a VHF station to blanket the same coverage area. Meanwhile, it takes less digital power than analog power to cover the same area. The other part of this equation is the height of the transmitting antenna. The higher the tower the better your "line of sight" reception will, or at least should, be. Some examples:

WTTV-4 58.9kW @ 1170'
WTTV-DT 53 4kW @ 980'
WRTV-6 100kW @ 915'
WRTV-DT 25 898kW @ 964'
WISH-8 316kW @ 1000'
WISH-DT 9 19.5kW @ 932'
WNDY-23 5000kW @ 964'
WNDY-DT 32 1000kW @ 889'

Regarding WTHI-DT 24, Terre Haute, that station is currently operating with only 4.3kW @ just 426'.

Steve

Steve,
WTTV-DT is coming in fine today 94. As for the antenna it is in the right direction and the rotor matches, I did go out to check last night just to be sure. I can get WISH-DT at almost any direction with a 65 to 70 but the north by north east which is were it has been for years. If I move it due north or almost any were else its fine so it maybe a weather thing you were talking about. Its amazing how just by moving the antenna a little bit how much more signal strength you can get.

Iam getting channel 3 analog and 7 today it is kind of fun to see what channels you can get sometimes.

Brad

Originally posted by BRADH


Iam getting channel 3 analog and 7 today it is kind of fun to see what channels you can get sometimes.



Some of us even make a hobby out of it(Dxing).Your unstable signal on VHF-9 yesterday was likely caused by unstable atmospheric conditions.Could have been WCPO-Cincy or WGN-Chicago.Other channels were probably affected similarly.

Greg B

http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/DXPHOTOS/

Last night I was getting a reading on channel 16 digital thats all it would say dropping in and out any ideas?

Brad

Originally posted by BRADH
Last night I was getting a reading on channel 16 digital thats all it would say dropping in and out any ideas?

Brad



If your ant was pointed towards Indy,most likely this one....

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=TV&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=619682

Thanks,

That is great that you got a channel from SD.

Brad

Here is a picture of my antenna.

Brad

Brad....

Sorry....had a busy weekend....I too have been getting 16 Olney Illinois (with th 3 sub channels added). Pax also from Trafalgar. 24.1 was up and running as of Sunday. When I finish here I will go in and check on my Tv.

From your photo it looks like you have a combination antenna. And as you have seen mine I have a separate UHF and Vhf antennas. Due to the size of my antenna (I know most brag about the size of their masts...) I have considered the possibility that it has gotten blown around. I have been known to go through and once a week crank it all the way around two or three times to make sure it is pointed correct. Again I am giving serious consideration to upgrading my 4248 Uhf for the 4228 Uhf for the longer range reception and maybe even using both on top of the tower.

I may also bite the bullet and by a Samsung HD OTA box (cannot seem to get the Dish Network HD boxes in to the stores) to use just for the signal meter. One other thing to consider.....I might also swap out the preamp I have a connection who claims that they can get one with more power than what I am using....

Ok I just aimed my antenna and tuned in 24.1 (I will leave it there so you can see it from work) It looks like you need to aim for downtown Terre Haute instead of their normal tower in Farmersburg. No luck on 2 (36.1) or 23 (32.1) the remainder of the Indy stations were fine but 8 is still spotty.

One last thought....they used some 300 ohm wire from the individual antennas to the Pre-amp. I started to use matching transformers and some quadshield RG6 to run between the antennas and the pre-amp but Mark from J & M thought it was overkill. If I upgrade the Uhf, I may swap those wires out since 300 ohm is high loss and fragile....and I am wondering why I did not object further to begin with.

I will be at the Bloomington Store till July 1. Got tapped to be the Sales Manager over in Terre Haute, but my DM would not let the other DM have me now....so I am moving up to the Greenwood Store for the Manager in Training program (Still Sales Manager and a larger bonus) till who knows when.

Brad......

Closed this down and took a good look at your antenna....The Yagi Uhf end appears to be a lower range rating that I think we need.

I have a Spartan pre amp that I think is rated around a 23 db gain. There us a Titan model rated with at 26 db gain and takes a 75 ohm input. I am considering also using the 3044 Distribution amp in place of the Radio Shack distribution amp that I think is partially on the fritz.

Last summer I routinely was able to aim toward Indy and get 22 (52.1 Vincennes) off the back side of my antenna. Now I have not been to do that so far this year....but the summer is young.

I do not have a problem if you need an assist with the antenna.....just remember I am not overly fond of heights but have been known to climb my tower like a monkey.......well an "Old" monkey....

As for (Dxing) when I lived up in Noblesville (206th & Victory Chapel) one night with some really clear atmospheric conditions I picked up about 35 analog stations from Dayton, Lafayette, Terre Haute, Louisville, and some other locations as well. It was nice and flat there with no obstructions.

I wrote a post on this last week, but no one responded... does anyone know if WTHR is going to start airing the Tonight Show in HD again? They stopped the week he went to Las Vegas and haven't been doing it ever since. Granted, I didn't see it tonight, but does anyone know what the deal is? It seems like WTHR does this periodically with random shows. Law & Order SVU wasn't in HD for a few weeks a couple of months back.

Originally posted by jasonblair
I wrote a post on this last week, but no one responded... does anyone know if WTHR is going to start airing the Tonight Show in HD again? They stopped the week he went to Las Vegas and haven't been doing it ever since. Granted, I didn't see it tonight, but does anyone know what the deal is? It seems like WTHR does this periodically with random shows. Law & Order SVU wasn't in HD for a few weeks a couple of months back.


jasonblair,

I've noticed lately that WTHR-DT seems to be missing a lot of HD programming, which is most likely related to HD recording problems at their studio. In fact, Sunday evening as WTHR ended their local weather and storm coverage, I just happened to have one set tuned to WTHR-DT and another one to WTHR-13. As they switched to NBC, whatever the show was, it was in HD on WTHR-DT while WTHR-13 had a blank screen for at least 30-45 seconds. Then all at once the HD feed on DT went to a SD feed and at the same time WTHR-13 finally had the program, too. For some reason they had to sacrifice the HD feed in order to get the analog feed on ch. 13. Figure that one out!

As for the Tonight Show, I'm rarely up that late to watch it. Friday night I was able to receive WLWT-DT 35 (NBC), Cincinnati, so I watched part of the show starting at 10:35, and the HD quality was very good.

I'll send an email to WTHR and let them know that viewers are looking for more HD content.

Steve

Randy,

I am picking up UPN 23.1 in the mid 70s again and around 70 on WISH 8.1 just had to move the antenna more toward the east dont know why but its working. I can get PBS 22.1 most of time, I will try aiming toward down town Terre Haute for 10.1 and see what happens I have gotten it before even with them using low power.

I still think that the weather things that Steve has talked about maybe the problem we have had. Come by and see me.
Brad

Brad and Randy,

Yes, aim your antennas toward downtown Terre Haute to receive WTHI-DT 24. From what I've read on the FCC posts, it's quite evident that WTHI-DT is transmitting from the WTHI-FM tower at their studios downtown and not from the WTHI-10 tower south of Terre Haute near Farmersburg. These two towers are 15 miles apart. With DT ch. 24 being so weak right now, a few degrees off the correct aim of your antenna could make a big difference in your reception of this station.

Steve

Steve,

A few degrees is making a big difference for me on WISH-DT right now but its working.

On another note WFBQ has always been strong down here but as of late it hasnt been very good down here. Even some of my co-worker have said the same thing about radio stations, so your weather thing but be it.

Brad

Hey Bradh and rdslam. Nice to see some people on this board from southern indiana. I live over in Bloomfield near the solsberry train trussel(if you guys are familiar with that). Anyways it looks like you guy are having way more luck than I am with the locals. I can pick up pbs out of Bloomington pretty good. I can sometimes get a signal from abc and cbs out of Indy but they wont stay in. I dont know if its the trees or what. I get about 50-70% on signal strength but they pixlate and sometimes lose sound. Pbs does not does this however. I am enjoying the hd channels on d* though. I really want cbs out of Terre Haute though. I live in the bottom of a valley so it may not get any better short of putting up a 100ft tower to clear the tree line though. lol

Originally posted by jasonblair
I wrote a post on this last week, but no one responded... does anyone know if WTHR is going to start airing the Tonight Show in HD again? They stopped the week he went to Las Vegas and haven't been doing it ever since. Granted, I didn't see it tonight, but does anyone know what the deal is? It seems like WTHR does this periodically with random shows. Law & Order SVU wasn't in HD for a few weeks a couple of months back.

I just received a reply to my email to Steve Hicks at WTHR. WTHR-DT was having problems with its HD delay system, so some new equipment was installed, but that required time to work out some bugs with the new setup, and also some operator issues had to be addressed. Hopefully things will be improving very soon.

As for the Tonight Show, Steve notes that the show was not produced in HD while Jay Leno was in Las Vegas.

Steve

I notice the digital signal is completely off-air tonight.

Originally posted by Jim_Hunt
I notice the digital signal is completely off-air tonight.

They're OK here.Maybe 46 S.Bend is knocking them out at your location.

I noticed that too, I was going to watch Crossing Jordan in HD tonight.. but no 13-1 to be found!

Originally posted by Avian
I noticed that too, I was going to watch Crossing Jordan in HD tonight.. but no 13-1 to be found!

I'm only 3 miles from the WTHR tower, but earlier in the evening the DTV signal (13.1) was very strong. I'm suspecting that in reference to MAX HD's reply, some atmospheric conditions were interfering with the ch. 46 DTV signal in outlying areas, like Bloomington and Kokomo for Jim. About 30 minutes prior to your posts, I did notice at my location that some brief, but very strong tropospheric ducting to the northeast had analog WANE-15 (CBS), Fort Wayne (94 miles) booming in like a local station. About 15 minutes later it was very weak. This is the time of year we can expect to see some of this activity from time to time.

Steve

Brad,

I checked last night (Sunday) and was finally getting 23 (32.1) back in. This time however 6 (25.1) was dropping in and out....which has never happened before. It was bad enough that I finally stopped watching the game and went to bed.

JHelms89....welcome to the forum. I have sold several tv's to people in your area. You should also get WTHI 10 (24.1) if you point your antenna toward downtown Terre Haute, and you should also get 22 WTVU Vincennes (52.1), and last try Olney Illinois WSIL I think is the call letters...University of Southern Illinois 16 analog and (19.01, 02, 03, 04) in HD. WTWO 2 is occasionally up and running on (36.1) and WBAK has filed an extension.
Try these and let me know what you get.

RslamD if you work at the land of the Greg, then you probably did sell me my tv. The salesperson who sold me my tv was from spencer. I live in the bottom of a valley surrounded by trees so I dont know if I can pick up wthi-D or not. I can bring in ABC, CBS, out of INdy but they never stay locked inwithout cutting out some. Which I think will get better in the winter when the leaves are gone. I can get 30-1 out of bloomington without any problems most of the time. The problem is that I have a wall of trees right in the direction of terre haute. I need a bigger tower but since I am just renting the house I dont want to put in anything bigger in. Besides hopefully I will start building my house in a year or so and I will be up on higher ground. I have the biggest antenna winegard sells. Anyways I will try to post some pics of my property and show youguys what I mean about the trees.

WTTV-DT/WXIN-DT

Today I noticed in the FCC files that WTTV-DT's request to change from ch. 53 to ch. 48 has been granted. Now the FCC must approve the second filing, which includes the technical information pertaining to WTTV-DT operating on ch. 48. The filing is requesting an output power of 870kW.

>WTTV-DR 48 DR GRANT BLOOMINGTON IN US BPRM->20030820AEO - 159332

Yesterday I found out that WXIN-DT is getting closer to going HD by September. The station has received the FOX splicer equipment, which is required for the conversion from 480p to 720p (HD).

Steve

Wanna take a little different turn for a few..

ESPN HD. Has anyone watched Sport Center since the HD conversion.. and if you have, what do you think?

I think it's stunning, and an idea of what local news will look like when it turns the corner into HD. (which could be in ohh.. 1-2 years)

I like how the graphics make an easy transition between the HD and SD limits. Althought I still can't stand the ticker. It needs some tweaking before it looks great on HD. I say.. 2 tickers, side by side. One side.. Just Scores.. Two side.. Sports news scrolling, or.. highlights of game on the other side.

What do you think?

Originally posted by goldrich
Yesterday I found out that WXIN-DT is getting closer to going HD by September. The station has received the FOX splicer equipment, which is required for the conversion from 480p to 720p (HD).

Steve

Installation has reportedly been completed. You should be getting upconverted 480p to 720p until the true 720p HD is sent from FOX in September.

FOXHD - Upgraded Cities (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409554)

CPanther95,

Thanks for the update on WXIN-DT along with the good news. The engineer I spoke to knew the equipment had arrived but did not elaborate as to whether it had been installed. As of last evening, my DTV receivers are still indicating 480p from WXIN-DT. ........"Please stay tuned for further updates......."

Steve

J HELMS......Sorry I did not have time to chat with youin the store Tuesday...if you have a combo (Uhf/Vhf) they sometimes short the Uhf end....Channel Master's top UHF stand alone is rated for 65+ miles and can be found for $60 or less. I use quadshield RG6 and a preamp. These may help as I am in a valley at the base of a hill north and east of my home.
6 and 8 here lately has been fuzzing out and has only for the first time in the year and a half I have had my antenna. If I did not tell you they are moving me into the land of management instead of sales 7-1-04.

Steve,

Well WISH-DT seams to be getting weaker, last night no matter were I had the antenna it wasnt strong enough to stay locked in. All other OTA DT channels are just fine.

I picked up channel 14 last night a abc station and 30dt which replace WTIU-DT. WTIU analog was fine but the 30.1 had the same programming as the abc analog 14, do you know were the channel is located?

Randy,
I havent had any problems with 6 (25.1) at all coming in around 90.

Brad

J Helms,

Welcome to the forum, nice to have you.

Brad

Originally posted by BRADH
Steve,

Well WISH-DT seams to be getting weaker, last night no matter were I had the antenna it wasnt strong enough to stay locked in. All other OTA DT channels are just fine.

I picked up channel 14 last night a abc station and 30dt which replace WTIU-DT. WTIU analog was fine but the 30.1 had the same programming as the abc analog 14, do you know were the channel is located?

Brad

Brad,

It's rather puzzling as to what's causing the recent problems with WISH-DT in your area. According to Tom Weber, nothing has changed with the WISH-DT signal. The weather/atmospheric changes seem to be the only factor I can think of since you and Randy are reporting the same condition. Maybe I could head down sometime with my new LG receiver and we could check it out next to your DTC-100. The LG handles weak signals better than my DTC-100.

As for the new ABC station that popped up on channels 14 and 30, I'm completely baffled. I can't find any ABC station with the correct analog/digital combination per your description. In your area, especially during the summer months, I would almost expect you to occasionally see analog KDNL-30 (ABC), St. Louis and analog WFIE-14 (NBC), Evansville, but these stations don't match your description. WFIE is not ABC while KDNL is the right network but its DTV channel is 31. Any chance your receiver might have "hung-up" on WRTV-DT 25 (ABC) prior to switching to one of these other channels? I've seen my receiver do this a few times. Just a thought........After all, we are talking about an "electronic device." LOL.

Steve

I would guess tropo-skip from analog WGN-TV Channel 9 Chicago is causing problems for some WISH-DT viewers. I say that because WISH-DT has been causing noticeable interference to the WGN-TV signal at my home in Monee, IL (33 miles SSW of Chicago). I have been receiving TTV4, RTV6, WISH, and WTHR-13 on and off over the past week, too.

Is WILL-DT Urbana/Champaign lit up yet? That has the potential to cause some major problems along the westernmost coverage area of WISH-DT.

Steve,
Channel 14 and 30 were to to weak last night. WISH-DT was in and out last night. WTIU-DT 30.1 work fine after a new channel search. Plus I picked up Fox7 out of Evansville just as clear as locals.

Brad

Brad H,

Maybe since you received 7 from Evansville "just like a local"

then probably you're getting 9 from Evansville, too,

but don't you think that would torture WISH-DT on 9?

George,
Iam not getting 9 from Evansville is that there digital channel?

That maybe whats happening to WISH-DT. Just for the last 3 or 4 yrs WISH-DT has always been a very strong channel for me just like the rest of the Indy channels. Then a few weeks ago I lost it very low signal strength it dropped more than half (about the the same time Randy lost as well) I turned the rotor and with some work I can get it but not like before. So if Evansville has DT channel using 9 than that may be it.

Brad

..edit..
Oh.. I efforted!

WNIN-9, Evansville has its DTV on ch. 12. FCC records don't indicate any technical changes with ch. 9.

Steve

Was anyone home (other than me) to watch the funeral for President Reagan? I thought I tried but did not see any of the locals showing it in HD. If they did not was that because the Nationals were not broadcasting in HD?

This is all good and fine....because HD Net was doing a rebroadcast of it in HD....and from what I saw....the majority was broadcast in HD with a few up converted cameras...was as usual fantastic. The detail in the floor of the church was unbelievable.

How much of the video being shot today is in HD and the Networks are refusing to rebroadcast as such?

I figured when Brad said he received Fox7 out of Evansville just like the locals that he meant their analog on channel 7 and that if analog 7 from Evansville was skipping in to his location then WNIN analog 9 from Evansville was skipping in likewise and that this analog 9 would interfere with WISH-DT also on channel 9 because trying to decode the digital 9 in the presence of a very stong analog 9 would torture the STB decoding circuits. But of course if Brad meant he received Fox7 digital from Evansville then my reasoning would not apply.

George,

I meant fox7 analog. I just thought that if I got fox7 that maybe if Evansville has a digital channel 9 that it could be interfering with WISH-DT.

Brad

Brad,

Evansville has two analog VHF channels, Fox7 and PBS9.

If conditions were favorable to allow you to watch Evansville's analog 7 like a local, those same conditions would also allow you to watch Evansville analog 9 like a local (although Evansville analog VHF PBS9 uses less power and a shorter tower).

And therefore the two channel 9 signals would interfere with each other at your location, rendering decoding of WISH-DT impossible during the skip phenomenon.

Two strong signals sharing the same channel can interfere with each other, regardless of whether both are analog or both are digital or one is analog and one is digital.

George,

Thanks for the info. Its just funny that after the last 3yrs or so I have never had a problem with WISH-DT it was always one of the strongest channels, (88 to 92 signal strength) and know it hard to get more than 60 most of the time. Randy (RSlamD) has the same problem as I do with WISH-DT and he was getting just fine before, just weird.

Brad

Well, Leno was up in HD on WTHR last week, and is back to NOT being in HD this week.... who do I need to contact and yell at?!?!?!


Also, I've noticed that WRTV isn't showing up on 6-1 anymore on my HTL-HD receiver. It's only on 25-1. Anyone know the reason for this?

Originally posted by jasonblair
Also, I've noticed that WRTV isn't showing up on 6-1 anymore on my HTL-HD receiver. It's only on 25-1. Anyone know the reason for this? I can't say for sure but I might be involved in this... I have both the Sony HD200 and HD300 (use the 200 most of the time) and the HD200 via DirecTV never showed the schedule for 25.1 (only 6.1 - which if selected didn't have any signal). With the HD300 I believe 25.1 was mapped to 6.1 so it wasn't an issue.

I saw a posting regarding the company who provides the schedules and sent them a note regarding 25.1 schedule not showing. I actually received an email back from them asking what city I was in so who knows how it happened but now 25.1 has the scheduled listed.

Checked with WNIN in E'ville, and nothing has changed there directly, altho a few weeks ago they removed an FM antenna from the tower that's no longer used. Probably not the culprit.

WILL-DT 9 from Champaign-Urbana is not yet on the air.

Best guess right now is the sporadic skip from WGN-Chicago.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

Thanks for checking. I will just have to wait until things better, just hard to keep WISH-DT locked in right know.

Brad

Hi Tom;
First of all, thanks for all of your answers to this forum. I certainly appreciate your taking the time to answer questions such as the one I'm about to ask.
I live in Bloomington Indiana. I have a nice high location north of town, and can get all of the Indy digital signals very well.
But I have to say this. Your analog channel 8 is my strongest analog signal, and your digital 9 is the worst, day in and day out, of all of the Indy digital stations.
Channel 59 is a really weak analog signal, but the digital is perfect. Same for 20. Both of them are better consistantly than 9. I am NOT an enginer, but I have to ask. Is VHF not very good for digital? That's the only explanation this layman can come up with.
And, to piggy-back on that, what are 8's plans for the future? Will you ever go to UHF?
I wish you would, because I absolutely loved the four basketball games at once in the NCAA, love your weather, and have amazed my friends with football in HD. If your digital was in UHF, WISH would be absolutely perfect!
Thanks again for your answer. I hope this question isn't perceived as nasty....
Nat

Upper VHF is generally considered superior to UHF, for the fact that it will travel further with less power involved (We run 20,000 watts of power for DTV, the folks on UHF go up to 1,000,000 watts.)

The fact that WISH analog on 8 gives you a great signal, versus the weaker one on Ch. 59 analog, despite their transmitting with far more power than us, is a real-world demonstration of that fact.

The lower-numbered channels of VHF, 2-6, are considered very bad for DTV, and few stations will use them. This is due to the greater amount of "impulse noise" on those frequencies. Mostly noise from insulators on power poles, and lightning. The upper VHF channels (7-13) suffer far less.

I have to suspect that there is, somewhere in your setup, something quite frequency-sensitive that affects at least channel 9. How is your reception for WTHR-13? They're a little bit higher yet in frequency, without making the huge jump to the UHF channel frequencies.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Wow!
That's more of an explanation than my question deserved.
I think you're on to something in regards to my particular setup.
I have temporarily put a nice outdoor antenna in quite literally a plywood and 2/4 platform. I't s a whopping seven feet off of the ground. The problem is (I'll bet) the fact that it has to be underneath a power line right now for aesthetic reasons and to get a good view (away from trees). I'll certainly move it when I put up a real tower. I think I will "plant the tower" 250 feet away. But with a good preamp and a great view of Indy/Trafalgar/Terre Haute away from power lines, I'll bet things get better.
I'm in hopes that by getting away from the power line, channel 9 will improve. As I said, I love the program selection you folks use, and was blown away by the four NCAA basketball games at one time.
I'll let you know if getting out from underneath the power lines helps....
Thanks again Tom!
Nat

Please, please, be very respectful of those power lines. We need all the HD viewers we can get!

Regards,
Tom

WISH-High Definition, now NEW and IMPROVED!

NOW with CAPTIONS!

Let me know any problems, please.

(At long last - phew!)

Regards,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Okay, I've read through most of this thread. I'm completely new to HDTV and Indianapolis in general. I have the Samsung T360 stb and a winguard OTA antenna they hooked up to my sat. I can't get any channels to come in from the OTA, but my guide does show them. I am located in Camby, IN Heartland Crossing to be specific. Antennaweb.org says I'm about 17-19 miles from most of the channels yet I get nothing. I don't even know where to start. My installer said pretty much "some people get them and some don't."

Any ideas?

<My installer said pretty much "some people get them and some don't.">
........................................................

The guy who said this is a professional installer???? Between lousy installers like this guy and lousy TV owners like Nexstar (none in Indy, thank goodness), no wonder some people are so skeptical of HDTV.

Now that I've got that off my mind, welcome to Indy, rugby. You should be getting the local DTV's very well in your location. Most of the station towers are located on the northwest side of the city, around 79th and Michigan Road, which would be somewhat NNE of Camby. Three DTV towers, including WTTV, are located south of Indy in Trafalgar, which would be SSE of your location. If everything is connected correctly and the antenna is aimed correctly, you should be getting lots of signal strength from most of these stations. Without actually inspecting the setup, it is rather difficult to imagine why you are not getting them. Did you try unplugging your receiver, waiting a few minutes and then plugging it in again, to give it a chance to reset? Did any of the local stations show up while the installer was at your house? If you actually paid this guy for this kind of result, I'd call him and have him come back. I'd tell him that "some people get paid and some don't." Period!

Most of the local DTV's are transmitting very strong signals and you should NOT be getting the results you are currently experiencing. Please keep us posted and let us know how things progress.

Steve

rugby,
I have to second Steve's comments. I'm a similar distance from the towers on the NW side of Indy out here in Plainfield. I get all of them located in that location. I haven't tried WTTV since I'm to lazy to go up in the attic to move the antenna. All I'm using is a slightly modified RS double bow tie with a low gain preamp. The thing is actually intended as a set top antenna so is quite small and is UHF only to boot. WISH comes in fine even on VHF.

If your installer was trying to say there is no one guarenteed recipe for success I'd agree. If he's telling you there is no way to get even some stations from your location he's just to lazy to try. It did take a bit of experimenting to find a location that would give me all 5 that didn't require reaiming. I really need a larger antenna with rotor...

Welcome to the area rugby! I'll second what the other guys said, and you should be able to get something. Are you getting any of the stations analog, even snowy? If not, I'd have to say that something just isn' t hooked up right, and from your installer's comments, that sounds like a distinct possibility. Is your antenna diplexed into the sat signal, then un-diplexed (is that the way to say it?) into the antenna in on the box, or is the antenna signal on it's own separate cable? A dedicated run will give you the most signal strength.

On another note, I'm extremely happy that WRTV-DT has guide data on 25-1 now. My wife can stop asking me why it was the way it was, and you all don't have to read me complaining anymore. :p

bakem

thanks for the greetings. I don't get squat through the OTA antenna. Every channel is 0% and all I get is "Searching for Signal". I"m thinking there's a hardware problem somewhere. When the installer left he didn't even set my local zipcode on the stb before scanning for locals. I had to come here and search the forum and learn to do that. Once I established in the guide that OTA locals actually exist I found out I can't see them at all.

I think it was just an inexperienced installer, which is sad because he was showing the other 2 trainees how to do it. I'll call them back tomorrow and get them back out to fix this. I was watching DiscoveryHD tonight and couldn't pry myself away from the tv long enough to call them. HD is beautiful.

Well, after calling Dtv back and complaining they're sending an OTA HD specialist out on Thursday to figure out what's going on and to explain stuff to me. Hopefully we can get the problems resolved then or I will at least know what the heck is going on with OTA.

rugby,

Thanks for the update. There definitely is a problem with the current setup and the installer should be able to fix it. Good luck!

Maybe you've already seen this, but here's a link to some interesting antenna info. This guy compared a number of various antennas at his home in Philadelphia. The pictures remind me of my backyard from time to time. :-)

www.hdtvexpert.com/Pages/antout.html

Steve

Okay, the service guy came out and laughed at the setup. He said the main installer (his supervisor actually) literally pointed the antenna at the house in my backyard. He (Coy) also said that he didn't have an OTA mount to put the antenna up on the second story where it should have been installed to begin with. It's installed on the first story off the garage. He said that there is no way in heck I would get anything with it set up like this. I have a nice 2-story house with NOTHING blocking the sat or antenna around me for miles. He told me exactly what to tell them to have done (he didn't have a separate mount for the OTA with him so the next guy would have to bring one). Hopefully the next installer will fix the issues and this will be over with.

Glad to hear that there's hope! Sounds like they an installer with a little more knowledge out there this time. Again, you should get most, if not all, of the Indy area stations pretty well. Good luck with the next guy and let us know what channels you're able to get!

bakem

I live about 13 miles WSW of you, west of Monrovia. My OTA antenna is on a 20 foot mast aimed through large maple trees. Reception of all the Indy stations is nearly trouble-free (rare blocking). Your line of sight and distance is undoubtedly better than mine. Once it's up and working you'll forget about all the setup problems - guaranteed.

Bright House Digital Cable

After a couple of years of satellite tv, I recently decided to try digital cable. My area is served by Bright House. I've had some type of cable service over the past 12 years so the house was already wired. A company installer brought out a digital receiver and hooked it up Friday evening. So far I have mixed reviews of the service.

First of all, I knew more about what HDTV channels were available and how they worked than the installer.......Any surprises so far? If you do not currently own an OTA STB for local stations, then Bright House might not be your first choice for HDTV. Currently, only WISH-DT, WTHR-DT and WFYI-DT are offered, which means no HD service from WRTV-DT, WTTV-DT, WNDY-DT and no FOX Widescreen from WXIN-DT (HD by Sept.).

As for premium HDTV channels, Bright House offers HBO-HD (East & West), Showtime-HD (East & West), Discovery-HD, TNT-HD (occasional dropouts/pixelation). HDNet and HDNet Movies are also available but at additonal charge (not included with my package). Also, two HD INDemand movie channels are included (have not yet tried them). Bright House does not offer ESPN-HD........ :-(

After just two days, the remote control that comes with the digital receiver is a piece of junk. I have to move to one spot in the room to get it to work. It's actually easier to walk up to the receiver and just use the controls on the front of the box.

PQ is very good on the channels. Too bad there isn't more variety.

Steve

Steve,
No surprise there. These are the same people that ask you if the TV is plugged in when you tell them all you get on cable is snow.

How is the SD digital?

I haven't seen the brighthouse version but my impression of others is it's a way to get more channels into the same bandwidth by reducing bit rate to the bare minimum. A somewhat underwhelming picture in comparison to DBS or even analog cable. So far I've stuck with analog cable due to this experience plus the hassle of getting the typical craptastic cable box to play nice with scheduled recordings.

Originally posted by Les Auber
Steve,

How is the SD digital?



Les,

Actually, I can't answer your question because I really haven't watched anything other than the HD channels, which I've been rather pleased with so far (PQ). I would check the quality of the SD digital channels this morning but the only thing I can get out of the receiver at the moment is "Attention.....Your terminal is NOT AUTHORIZED for use. Please call." Should I call Bright House or Ted Turner???? This is only day three. Now I already have a bad remote control unit and no digital signal from the receiver. Welcome to Bright House.

Steve

Well, the installer came and went and made no difference. I had a sick toddler to watch so couldn't be outside with him while he was here but I asked him to relocate the OTA to the 2nd story and he did that. However, he located it on the lowest part of the 2nd story so the OTA points directly at the roof itself. I am pretty sure this isn't a good thing, however at this point I didn't want any more holes in my roof and he obviously wasn't well-trained in putting these up (he even admitted that).

I'm not sure what to do at this point...

rugby,

Did your installer work for Bright House last week??? Are there any installers around that actually know what they are doing? .......(Update - My installer forgot to enter the serial number on my digital receiver in their computer system to fully activate my service). I'm picturing the "Married With Children" episode where the Bundy family was getting ready to watch a FOX show. One of the kids picked up the little indoor antenna with strips of aluminum foil attached to it while Al said, "Assume the FOX position." Maybe this would work for you? Have you tried an indoor antenna?

Steve

goldrich,

nope, this is the same clown who came out last week and needed his supervisor's help to screw up my OTA installation the first time. I'm sitting here in a room at the back of my house on the second story and I can SEE THE DAMN TOWER they were aiming at through the other side of my house. Tomorrow morning I'm going to go get some coax cable, crimpers, and roofing cement to fix the holes and I'm going to-remount the antenna myself. I was upstairs here in my son's playroom when I noticed the tower over the house behind me (a 1 story home).

This is crazy, I can't believe humans can be that dumb and still make it to work.

Quote:
This is crazy, I can't believe humans can be that dumb and still make it to work.

I wonder how many installations they make actually do work the first time. And how many after 3+ service calls. So they actually mounted the antenna on the south side of your house? Remarkable! Should prospective HD initiates avoid the outfit who is still installing yours?

They mounted the D*tv dish on the south side of my house where it should be and mounted the HD OTA antenna on the south side of my house but pointed it north towards the tower. Hence, through the roof. I wish I had a digital camera to take a picture of this.

I would definitely avoid these guys, Bluegrass Satellite. I've worked in the computer industry for a long time, and can instantly tell when someone's not sure of what they're doing. I had the installer AND his supervisor (the resident expert on HD OTA) out and they both screwed it up royally.

rugby,
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. And the amazing part is if you tell them what they are doing wrong the typical response is why is a dumb untrained civilian trying to tell a "trained" professional how to do his job. It's almost amusing if you're not stuck in the middle of it.

Steve,
It's nice to know I'm not alone with bad luck with cable companies. Your experience pretty well mirrors the kind of service I've seen from them all over the country. I think they've been aiming at an average picture on an average 19 inch portable at the least cost to themselves (ie crappy equipment) for so long that they're no longer capable of even understanding what we AVS types want. Darkhouse has trouble getting analog cable to work well and they've had 30 years or so to get that right. If I had the southern exposure I'd dump them in a heartbeat for DBS.

I'm still curious as to your impression of SD digital if they can ever get you going right. Thanks.

Les,

I worked in retail and service, I never under-estimate the stupidity of anybody. Every time I think somebody is dumb, somebody else works hard to top them.

Anyone here know how to patch roof holes made from a botched OTA install? I'm thinking roofing cement should do the trick along with some nice long screws to stick back in the holes.

rugby,
AFAIK that would probably do the trick. The screws really don't need to be all that long. The shingles and sheeting are probably only an inch to an inch and a half thick. Something with a large flat head that would cover a bit of undamaged shingle would be best. That way you can get some cement in the hole and under the head. With more cement on top you should be ok. If you didn't want to show you could replace the damaged top layer of shingles and put the screws and cement under it. OF course YMMV since I'm not a roofer.

WXIN/WTTV

Many thanks to Rich Kittilstved and Rick Poling of the engineering staff at WXIN/WTTV for providing me an opportunity yesterday to see their new facility near 465 and West 71st Street. What a great building. Compared to the previous WXIN building on N. Meridian, this one is like walking into the RCA Dome!

Rich allowed me to take some digital pictures while touring the building. As soon as I have a chance to download and configure them, I'll try to provide a link for viewing them.

I was able to verify that the FOX HD splicer equipment has been installed and is ready to feed HD programming as soon as FOX starts sending it by late Aug. or Sept. ...... :-)

WTTV-DT 53 will be switching to channel 48 sometime before early October. The power will remain at 4kW until the FCC approves their request to increase it.

In the near future, a setup in the WXIN/WTTV building will become a control room and switching center for a couple of other Tribune-owned stations. This will be a similar setup like the ones at WISH and WRTV, whereby each of these local stations controls the master switching of programs and commercials for some other sister stations.

Steve

Some recent discussions dealt with tropospheric enhancement (ducting) conditions, where the atmosphere allows TV signals to travel beyond the normal "line of sight" range. During these times of enhancement, TV signals can sometimes travel hundreds of miles. For example, viewers in Detroit might see our local Indy stations while we might be receiving the Detroit stations. As a TV DXer (receiving distant stations), I was able to receive several of these stations this week, usually during the early morning hours. Between using a cheap digital camera and using the built-in snapshot feature on my PC digital tuner card (Hauppauge Win-TV D), I caught some screen shots or pics of the PSIP info. Some of those pics can be seen here.... http://www.geocities.com/goldrich2@sbcglobal.net/recentdtvreception.html

BTW, I must apologize for the lack of pics available from the WXIN/WTTV tour. The new digital camera I grabbed from work has such a high pixel rate per shot that it exceeds the maximum file size allowed on the AVS Forum website, as well as other sites I've tried, too.

Les, I now have the Bright House digital box working fine, along with the remote control which had bad batteries in it. But you are so right. Through the digital receiver, the HD channels look very good but the remaining SD channels look quite poor. Some actually look very bad. The SD channels look better on my 47" RPTV by splitting the cable line before it goes into the digital receiver and feeding the analog tuner in the TV.

Steve

Originally posted by Les Auber
And the amazing part is if you tell them what they are doing wrong the typical response is why is a dumb untrained civilian trying to tell a "trained" professional how to do his job.

That's why I always prefer "educated" amateurs.

Doug McDonald

Steve;
You said "Some recent discussions dealt with tropospheric enhancement (ducting) conditions, where the atmosphere allows TV signals to travel beyond the normal "line of sight" range. During these times of enhancement, TV signals can sometimes travel hundreds of miles. For example, viewers in Detroit might see our local Indy stations while we might be receiving the Detroit stations. As a TV DXer (receiving distant stations), I was able to receive several of these stations this week, usually during the early morning hours."
I assume that this DX phenomenon can also lead to problems, can't it? A station not normally received could cause interference with the channel we are "supposed" to get, couldn't it? I would think a distant analog station would really play havoc with a local digital station.
By the way, the pictures you showed of the distant stations you received were really neat. Digital is amazing....
I used to have analog "DX events" with my antenna years ago, but they were nothing like the pictures you showed.
Nat

Yeah it does cause problems. I live in Auburn and WISE-DT is on channel 19. It normally is about 60% on my T151. During the early morning, I cannot get 19. My receiver flashes around like it is having trouble locking on to the signal. Steve responded in the Fort Wayne thread and said it was probably channel 19 out of Toledo interfering with it. That makes perfect sense, because if I cannot get 19 in the early morning, I'm usually able to get channel 42 out of South Bend with my antenna (Silver Sensor), which channel 42 is 90 miles away. So it can be a good and a bad thing. If wise were to bump up the power a bit, I don't think it would be as much of a problem.

Ryan

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
That's why I always prefer "educated" amateurs.

Doug McDonald

Thanks, you are one of the rare ones. I have encountered others from time to time but most of them act like I'm barely able to plug in a TV without incurring serious injury. This seems to be true across many industries, cable, appliance, automotive etc.

Originally posted by nathill
Steve;

I assume that this DX phenomenon can also lead to problems, can't it? A station not normally received could cause interference with the channel we are "supposed" to get, couldn't it? I would think a distant analog station would really play havoc with a local digital station.
Nat

Nat, yes, that can happen quite often, and yes, another analog station can really play havoc with a local digital station. Also, Ryan's comments in his reply explained what can happen when two digital stations on the same channel mix. Usually the stronger signal wins the battle, or just creates enough interference that the digital receiver cannot read the data clearly enough to decode a signal.

If you are interested in MORE.... :-), another type of signal enhancement is known as Sporadic E, which is very common on the low VHF TV channels during the summer months. This phenomenon is caused by ionized clouds in the ionosphere at altitudes of around 60 miles. The frequencies associated with TV channels 2-6 (plus FM channels) can travel over a thousand miles during this type of enhancement and cause major interference to these channels. Besides common electrical interferences from household items like vacuum cleaners, electric shavers, etc., the effect from Sporadic E is yet another reason why the FCC will most likely delete channels 2-6 for digital stations.

If you'd care to read more about Sporadic E (Es or E-skip), check out this website www.dxfm.com , and then click "Signal Propagation." It is owned and operated by Girard Westerberg in Lexington, KY, a DXing friend and radio engineer.

Yesterday we saw a great example of Sporadic E in this area. Here are some screen shots I caught during the peak time.
http://www.geocities.com/goldrich2@sbcglobal.net/Esscreenshotsjuly42004.html

Steve

WBAK-DT 39 (FOX), Terre Haute

Greg (MAX HD) in Greensburg reports that this station is now on the air. He was able to receive it for a few minutes over the weekend. FCC information indicates that it is operating at low power with 1.2kW @ 853 feet. Not much power but the antenna height is good and will certainly help. Can you guys in the Bedford and Spencer areas receive it? Thanks.

As far as I know, Indiana now has just 3 DTV's that are M.I.A......WEVV-DT, Evansville, WIPB-DT, Muncie, and WTBU-DT, Indianapolis (Just sold to a new owner).

Steve

Steve;
You said "the effect from Sporadic E is yet another reason why the FCC will most likely delete channels 2-6 for digital stations."
I have noticed that channel 9 (channel 8's digital counterpart) is in my opinion not quite as strong as I would expect and seems to be a little more prone to pixelization (if that's a word) during rain storms between Bloomington and Indy.
I'll bet DX figures into some of this.....
None of this is a big problem, since I get all of my Indy digital signals crystal-clear about 99.9% of the time.
Nat

Just FYI, I have 1/2 of our microwave system going in to the manufacturer for some adjustment; it should help eleiminate the breakup in digital whenever there's a scene with extremely bright, saturated color. When it returns, the other half will get the same treatment.

(This is for the studio-to-transmitter signal, it is considered a critical system, we have 2 of them in a hot-standby configuration.)

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Just FYI, I have 1/2 of our microwave system going in to the manufacturer for some adjustment; it should help eleiminate the breakup in digital whenever there's a scene with extremely bright, saturated color. When it returns, the other half will get the same treatment.

(This is for the studio-to-transmitter signal, it is considered a critical system, we have 2 of them in a hot-standby configuration.)

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Thanks Tom. I almost feel like I'm observing a very high priced experiment as digital takes over the airwaves. No question that it just keeps getting better and better from the consumer end. Your channel 9 is the most imaginative when it comes to pushing the digital envelope (four NCAA games at once takes the cake!) And it sounds like you're not sparing much expense in getting out a quality picture as well.
Letterman in HD, here we come............

Thanks to KBandy for reworking these pictures and reducing the file size so they will download at the AVS Forum site. Also, thanks again to Rich Kittilstved and Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV/WTTK for providing such a great tour on June 29 and allowing me to take some pictures.

Here is WXIN/WTTV/WTTK Master Control. The large monitor in the middle is a 60" plasma divided into numerous smaller screens to monitor all six stations, 3 analog and 3 digital. In order to get this pic to load on AVS Forum, it had to be reduced even further and now the right side of the pic is missing.....sorry.

During these months of Daylight Saving Time, two HD tape recorders are used to record and playback WB programming for WTTV/WTTK. Meanwhile, FOX offers various time zone feeds so WXIN can air programming directly from the network.

This is part of the new equipment that was recently installed for the upcoming HD on FOX. (Sorry, once again I had to reduce the file size even more to get this pic posted and in the process the right side of the pic is now missing).

Interesting to see Tandberg equipment in there... We use Tandberg devices to Run our H323 IP video Distance learning.. I did not know they were doing HD stuff.. COOL!

Greg

goldrich,

Been away from Spencer at a Manager Conference. I will check Friday on My tower, then check with Brad and see if he is able to get this.

Randy

Ok........WBAK maps out at 39.2 is up and running....however I have a "Real" hard time locking it in so it must be transmitting a really weak signal.

So....I can pick up the following channels:

9.1, 9.2, 9.3 WISH
14.1, 14.2 WTIU
16.1, 16.2, 16.3 (Olney Illinois WSIU {Southern Illinois University})
21.1, 21.2, 21.3 WFYI
24.1 WTHI
25.1, 25.2 WRTV
32.1 WNDY
36.1 WTWO
39.2 WBAK
45.3 WXIN
46.1, 46.2 (remaps to 13.1, 13.2) WTHR
53.2 WTTV
56.1 WCLJ

Cheers.....

Randy