Is there anyone trying to record HBOHD via Motorola 6208 (firmware version 7.10) from Insight cable? (FYI, I'm in West Lafayette, IN)

The other HD channels such as HDNet, DiscoveryHD, BravoHD, etc. do not cause any problem for me to record through firewire to JVC 40k, but HBOHD causes a lot of breakups and pauses in pumping out digital signals through firewire.

Since my primary interest has been recording HD programs, I haven't checked out SD channels, but several days ago I found that all the SD channels have the same problem in sending digital data through firewire, too.

I'm not sure if it is related to 5C parameter (i.e., copy once), but it is strange if it is, since I see the same problem in SD channels, which are assumed to be copy free.

I'll appreciate if anybody let me know how to solve this problem.

JJ

Have the smae problems on my 30k on Insight in Greenfield... The only work around for me is to record it with the 6208.. then dump the recording out to the JVC. Its like the signal is much more clean when played back from the Hard Drive or something... I have this problem with Both HBO and Showtime so I have to believe its related to 5c.

Greg

Hey kinda off topic but Im looking for REALDEAL317. If anyone knows how to reach him other than PM please let me know or tell him I have a question I would like to ask him.

Thanks

I am wondering if someone can help me. I live out on the west side of Indy... roughly around 21st and Country Club. I've been able to pick up all of my HD channels very well with some amplified rabbit ears. Lately, however, WTHR 13-1 seems to be very inconsistent. Most of the time, my Hughes HTL-HD indicates almost 100% signal strength. But then every once in a while, it's barely watchable. When I turn the signal meter on, it's just fluxuating rapidly from strong signal to weak signal and to no signal. I mess with the antenna, but it doesn't seem to change anything.

What's weird is that it doesn't seem to have any sort of pattern. It seems to occur independent of weather conditions or time of day. My dad (who knows very little about electronics) is convinced that something at the airport or a police tower intereferes with 13-1.

Anyone have any thoughts? Any way around having to pay to install a real rooftop antenna?

On another subject, my sister lives in Terre Haute. I've read that Fox is paying to have all of their affiliates be broadcasting in 720p by this fall. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, will WBAK be doing that too?

I know that recently Nexstar had some sort of buyout of WBAK, and they are so cheap with WTWO that people in Terre Haute have virtually NO chance of seeing NBC in HD anytime soon... so will that be the same case for Fox with WBAK? Let's hope not.

If anyone has heard anything, let me know.


PS... I think it's AWESOME that WTHI doesn't tape delay their Prime Time CBS HD broadcasts an hour! Other stations should do the same thing! I want Leno at 10:35!

Jason I'm over by 100N and 267 and have the same trouble from time to time but less often with wthr. I am tempted to blaim my receiver the SAT-hd100 from Sony. Its well over 3 yrs old and is kinda flakey.

As to what would cause interuption to the signal like you are experiencing I havent a clue. I am however interested to hear theorys.

How about they are tweaking up their transmitter getting ready for the Olympics?? Their signal has been real spotty for me down here in Spencer. I have to work over at Terre Haute this week I will try and contact WBAK and see what is up with them... and as I have previously posted they are up and running at a weak power.

Hey. For those using Comcast HD, have you seen channel 172 latley? DiscoveryHD is now on Comcast. More wallpaper! :)

Does anyone else think that it would be 'nice' of Comcast to swap WFYI's 480p station with the HD station. I don't like that my tv has to switch between 16:9 for WXIN, then switch to 4:3 for the educational digital WFYI and then back to 16:9 for the HD WFYI. I think grouping the 16:9 stations together would be ... 'nice' :) Don't you?

Jason,

Your situation with WTHR-DT sounds like it could be interference from another station on ch. 46 (tropospheric enhancement). A lot of out-of-market stations have been seen in the Indy area off and on during the past few weeks. Late last night and here early this morning I've been seeing several analog stations from Cleveland (250 miles), including WEWS-DT 15 (ABC), from time to time. Your amplified rabbit ears are capable of receiving signals from virtually every direction (360 degrees), and when these distant signals make their way into Indy they can mix with (interfere with) local stations. You said, "it's just fluxuating rapidly from strong signal to weak signal and to no signal." This is the classic result from two or more signals fighting each other. Two analog stations can fight each other and cause interference with each other, but you'll still receive at least one of the stations. In the digital world it's all or nothing. Your DTV receiver needs enough "clean" signal in order to read the data and then to decode it into audio and video.

There are several analog stations on ch. 46 in the region, like WRBU-E. St. Louis, WHME-South Bend and WKLE-Lexington that might be causing the problem from time to time. I just spoke to an engineer at WTHR about two weeks ago and he said things were working well on the digital side and that they were ready for Olympic coverage next month. He told me that WTHR-DT is currently operating with 800kW, which is one of the most powerful DTV's in the area.

When the analog stations are turned off, many of these interference problems will go away. At that time, the number of stations on the air will be reduced by virtually 50%. Until then, the best advice I could give is to use a directional antenna. This way you can aim for the station you are wanting to receive and at least attempt to reject any other unwanted signals from other directions on that same channel. Your receiver is not only looking for a strong signal, but it is looking for a "clean" signal, too. My 2 cents on this subject.

UPDATE.....Sorry I got so windy on the info above. Meanwhile, I neglected to mention another possibility. Your fluctuating signal problem could also be caused by multipath. With WTHR-DT's really strong signal in the metro area, its signal could be bouncing off of a nearby building, tree, etc. and causing your receiver to "see" two or more signals, the actual signal and one or more split-second delayed signal(s). This will cause the same type of problem with the receiver just like my comments with the above example. Once again, the best remedy for this is a very directional antenna that will do a better job of rejecting the various signals bouncing into the antenna from various directions. Also, some DTV receivers are better with handling multipath than others. A new generation of receivers, which are reportedly much better at handling multipath and weak signals, should be out later this year........................


Knowing the track record of Nexstar stations, don't look for a power increase or HD anytime soon for WBAK-DT. For example, Nexstar's WCIA (CBS), Champaign, IL, is granting waiver forms to area HDTV viewers so they can subscribe to DirecTV for CBS-HD......Nothing like sending local viewers to New York, via satellite, to watch WCBS-DT 56! The GM of the station even told me in an email earlier this year that the station has no immediate plans to update to HD.

Steve

Originally posted by jasonblair
I am wondering if someone can help me. I live out on the west side of Indy... roughly around 21st and Country Club. I've been able to pick up all of my HD channels very well with some amplified rabbit ears. Lately, however, WTHR 13-1 seems to be very inconsistent. Most of the time, my Hughes HTL-HD indicates almost 100% signal strength. But then every once in a while, it's barely watchable. When I turn the signal meter on, it's just fluxuating rapidly from strong signal to weak signal and to no signal. I mess with the antenna, but it doesn't seem to change anything.
You might try removing the amplifier as some times it will hurt more than it helps... allowing weak signals to interfere with stronger ones. I know it did when I played around with rabbit ears.

I ended up installing an outside antenna in the attic (over the garage - luckily when I built I had them pre-wire for it) and it sure is nice not having to mess around with the rabbit ears... I tried all kinds of them and typically I could get almost every station I wanted but one (which would vary) no matter what I did!

Gang, this is slightly off topic (maybe), but as I was quickly
watching Quintuplets (sp) last night, on Fox59, I might have
imagined that it was in HDTV? Am I just imagining things, or
was it in HDTV? (given 720p, my TV doesn't really display
it as well as 1080i.) The image quality seemed much better
than the traditional 'fox widescreen.'

Am I just a victim of 'suggestion' or was it in HDTV?

John

John,

According to foxeng, a Fox engineer, at AVS posts under "HDTV Programming, " FOX HD starts on Sept. 12. Also, on 8-2-04, he posted...

"The bit rate on the sat link increases today. After that, the testing is to begin. We haven't been told yet when we start the testing. Each station will have its own special testing session."

Steve

I would love to get Fox in HDTV. That's the main reason I haven't invested the time in setting up my OTA stuff is because that's the only channel I watch that is broadcast OTA.

I hope we can get it here in Evansville soon.

Here's some great news about the upcoming 5th generation OTA DTV receivers. If you are having reception problems, this new generation receiver might solve your problems. Best reception yet! Reports indicate it should be available by late 2004 or early 2005.

http://press.xtvworld.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1203

Steve

I just called DTV and while I was on hold a long time, got the 6 months free HD package! It may be only 4 channels now, but you can not beat the price! You have to commit for 1 year , but the first 6 months are free!

This may have been mentioned before, but does 13 always broadcast their picture stretched? Pillar-boxed is too thin, and full is too wide. All the other stations do whatever they want to, but at least the picture can be normalized with one of the two options.

Originally posted by GLBright
This may have been mentioned before, but does 13 always broadcast their picture stretched? Pillar-boxed is too thin, and full is too wide. All the other stations do whatever they want to, but at least the picture can be normalized with one of the two options.

Yes, that's the way it is on WTHR-DT except when they switch to HD programming from NBC.

Steve

Well, I find it really annoying. Thank goodness there's analog for everything but the HD stuff.

Does anyone have any information about Wthr's plans for HD Olympic coverage?
Is there a site that someone could point me to that contains their HD Olympics broadcast schedule?

Thanks in advance.

UPDATE:
Info from another source at WTHR... WTHR will carry any and all of the HD Olympics that NBC sends. Info on schedule can be found here:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/index.html
Click over to the complete schedule and check out the HDTV channel.
Info from J. Luna at WTHR Programming Dept.

I have a question for those in the Indy area: I live in Pike township, just north of 86th and Lafayette. When I moved in the winter, I was told there was no DSL available in the area so I went with cable modem and got Comcast digital. Since then, I've finished a basement area as a home theater, with a DLP FP and 110" screen. I really want HDTV now, but Comcast claims they don't offer it in my area. So, the Direct TV offer sounds appealing. I would get the offer with HDTV and 2 other receivers. They offer an OTA antenna for an extra $50. If I get that (should I, or is a different one better for my purposes?) would that give me analog reception for my non HDTV sets? Thanks for all the help...I can't wait to watch the Colts in HD!:D

I am in the same boat. I bought a house on the westside and SBC isn't offering DSL. So I had to go Comcast for my internet. The only thing is, I already had DirecTV, so i was committed on that front.

Apparently Comcast charges $13 extra per month for internet subscribers who don't have Cable TV service. What I did was order their most basic cable TV package. It gets you all the locals, CNN, Fox Sports Midwest, and a few other random channels. It's $11 a month for that package. So by ordering that, you in essence save $2 over not having cable TV at all.

What I've done is set up my DirecTV in the living room and family room on the big TV's, and then just ran the basic cable to all the little kitchen/bedroom TV's... you don't get a whole lot, but you are also saving the $4.99 per receiver fee from DirecTV.

What really sucks is that apparently SBC DSL is available in my subdivision, but my house is toward the end of the road and is too far away from the switching station... looks like I will be without DSL forever.

For DSL it's pretty much a function of how far you are from the switch room. Probably a matter of how far you can run a high freguency over twisted pair without loosing too much. However each ISP does things a little different. I got Earthlink when others said no go. Just try different ones and see what happens. Loads of info on this at dslreports.com.

As far as OTA goes it sounds like you would be fine in Pike township. I don't have a clue if the direct tv box downconverts or not for non-HD sets. No idea on their OTA antenna either. FWIW I get all the Indy locals broadcasting from the North side on a little RS double bow tie antenna set up in the attic here in Plainfield. Of course YMMV etc. No way to predict OTA reception for sure.

Well, I guess I'll do what Jason did and downgrade my Comcast service. I could save on a receiver upstairs that way. Can you use the basic cable on the big TVs as your local channels and not have to add that $4.99/mo from the satellite? Les, I'll check out your dsl website. One of these days I may get tired of giving comcast my money, though I really like cable modem compared to my old AOL dial up! I was drooling over the HD stuff on directtv.com today and was reading about the Hd Dvr, but it didn't include a price (there's a special on regular Tivo for $99 right now). I called and actually got through fairly quickly. CS said it's $999. Yikes. But, it'd be really nice to have a dvr. Hmmm.

Originally posted by drsimnal
I have a question for those in the Indy area: I live in Pike township, just north of 86th and Lafayette. When I moved in the winter, I was told there was no DSL available in the area so I went with cable modem and got Comcast digital. Since then, I've finished a basement area as a home theater, with a DLP FP and 110" screen. I really want HDTV now, but Comcast claims they don't offer it in my area. So, the Direct TV offer sounds appealing. I would get the offer with HDTV and 2 other receivers. They offer an OTA antenna for an extra $50. If I get that (should I, or is a different one better for my purposes?) would that give me analog reception for my non HDTV sets? Thanks for all the help...I can't wait to watch the Colts in HD!:D

Check out www.antennaweb.org. It has an antenna finder that will help you determine what you need, by zip code. My guess is that you'll be less than ten miles from the transmitters for all of the Indianpolis DTV OTA channels.

I moved to Zionsville two weeks ago, and put a $30 Radio Shack antenna in my attic (wife's orders - no way she'd let me put one outside). That gives me plenty of signal for the digital channels. You're probably closer to "antenna city" than I am, so I bet you won't need much in the way of an antenna to get the digital stations.

Over the same antenna I also get analog signals that are marginal, but I haven't spent any time trying to "tune" that part of the system. Instead, I've run the antenna through my DirecTv box, which integrates the OTA digital channels into D* lineup.

You can use the same antenna for the other sets, by using a gizmo (I think it's called a "diplexer") to combine the D* and analog antenna signals on one line. But, if you're using the antenna to get the locals on multiple sets, you may need a powered antenna and/or an amlpifier to get a stronger signal.

Hope this helps ...

You can go with the Cable instead of the DirecTV for the analog locals. Some of the non-HD DirecTV boxes do not integrate them into their guide though, so you may have to switch between video inputs on your other TV's. I believe all of teh HD boxes integrate though.

I finally got my antenna moved to the top of my house, angled it properly with a compass and still get only 60-75% signal strength for OTA. This is with a wineguard antenna that the local DirecTV installer brought. I'm only 20 miles from the antennas I need to hit, the angle is correct, but still no go. Is the antenna just a POS and should I invest in a good one?

rugby,
Unlike satellite and cable I've always found OTA a bit of an art. In short there isn't a magic bullet, sorry. Keep in mind that your signal strength is probably actually signal quality. You might have a strong signal that is being degraded by multipath. If your signal strength bounces around a lot it might be multipath. Sometimes a more directional antenna helps. You may be in a spot that doesn't have a direct line of sight and so are loosing out. You might try a different location and different angles. A direct line may not work but a signal bouncing off of something might. I spent a couple days screwing around with location and angle to get things set so that the POS RS antenna I've got would work. Don't know if a better one would be better or not.

Funny, my POS Radio Shack (Archer) antenna on a 20' mast almost 50 miles SW of the farm is basically set it and forget it. Even with some broken or missing elements. Great HD, too.

Greg

Yep. Mines been set and forget to. Getting it set was a bear. I'm using an indoor RS double bowtie set in the attic about 20 mile from the antenna farm. I suspect I'm pretty marginal.

FWIW I've heard many of the larger RS antennas are made by channel master.

I live in Avon and have the radioshack dual hdtv indoor antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=930%2D0998) , I have been able to use antenna web and tune my antenna to point aprox to 55 degrees. This enables me to pick up 46,45,25,32,21 with very good signal but when I look at 9 it gives me a signal clearity of 80 with spikes to around 100. I would think this would be just fine but this is not the case. I get constant pixilation and video dropout, really it makes WISH unwatchable.

I know the antenna is labeled UHF but does it make that big of a difference? Is there anything I could try to help me bring in the station better? Are there plans to move to a UHF signal in the future?

Originally posted by fgr41
I live in Avon and have the radioshack dual hdtv indoor antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=930%2D0998) , I have been able to use antenna web and tune my antenna to point aprox to 55 degrees. This enables me to pick up 46,45,25,32,21 with very good signal but when I look at 9 it gives me a signal clearity of 80 with spikes to around 100. I would think this would be just fine but this is not the case. I get constant pixilation and video dropout, really it makes WISH unwatchable.

I know the antenna is labeled UHF but does it make that big of a difference? Is there anything I could try to help me bring in the station better? Are there plans to move to a UHF signal in the future?

I am NOT an expert in this area, but can say with certainty that there is a BIG difference in UHF and VHF. The UHF waves are far shorter and allow the use of a much smaller antenna.
I guess I'm surprised that you can get channel 9's digital signal at all with a UHF antenna.
I do not speak for WISH either, but I am lead to believe there are no plans to change to UHF, although I for one wish they would. I have more problems with their VHF signal (even with a huge VHF-UHF antenna outside) than I do with the UHF digital stations.
I hate to say it, but my guess is you'll need a VHF antenna. The good news is you can get by with a really cheap one as close as you are to the tower.
Nat

VHF-Hi (7 - 13) comes in with something like 25 to 50% efficiency on a UHF loop or bowtie. Depending on the strength of your VHF, that might be all you need, but I agree with the prior post that you should add a VHF antenna to the system.

Since Channel 9 is the only other station you're interested in, you might do best with a homemade dipole cut specifically for Channel 9's midpoint of 189 MHz, then combine it to your UHF antenna with a VHF/UHF splitter/combiner.

There are numerous articles available via Google that will help you determine the exact length to cut the antenna. $5 of twin lead, an hour of research+work, and you've got yourself an efficient, bi-directional Channel 9 antenna that will beat the reception of a majority of commercially-available VHF antennas, especially when it comes to rejecting the first harmonic of local FM stations. I did this for 224 MHz once (just a hair above Channel 13) and it worked extremely well.

fgr,
I'm using a small RS UHF antenna that looks very similar to your link and get Wish just fine from Plainfield. It was marketed as a UHF double bow tie at the time. The signal is a stable 85 or so on my HiPix card. No idea if that relates to other boxes if at all. When you say pulsating 80-100 I think multipath on top of a strong basic signal. It is quite possible that a more directional antenna would help. A different azimuth angle or physical location in your house may also help. I had to fool around quite a bit to get a location that got everything at once without moving it.

After reading some of these posts I did some research and found out what a dipole looked like. Right away I knew I had one in the garage that came with a TV tuner card for my PC. I hung it up and combined the bowtie and dipole signals. It didn't really help at all, if anything the signal clearity was a little lower and the picture still very unstable.

I ran it straight w/out the bowtie and still no great improvement in reception. I'm 1/2 tempted to try a different HD receiver and see if my box just is flakey. I have had issues with it in the past and I wouldn't be supprised if it just has trouble with the VHF signals.

For now I'm going to try and tweak the bowtie a bit and see if it will work. I might even try a small powered antenna, I am still open to other options I guess.

(FYI: I have a channel master in the attic, it has a crappy cable run that I don't have time to re-fish through the walls. It's performance was blown away by the small double bowtie.)

Originally posted by jculp99
UPDATE:
Info from another source at WTHR... WTHR will carry any and all of the HD Olympics that NBC sends.
Info from J. Luna at WTHR Programming Dept.

The opening is not HD on WTHR. :(

Neither on WISE. Hopefully the sports will be.

Edit, just checked the titan tv guide and it doesn't show that it should be in HD.

Major bummer that the opening ceremonies aren't in HD on WTHR, and that they aren't following the national programming guide. I was really looking forward to it in HD... :(

Is it produced in HD? The titan tv guide didn't state that it was in HD.

Supposedly other parts of the country are getting it in HD, based on some posts over in the Voom forum.

Here is the bad news...


Dear Mr. Hunt:

Thank you for your e-mail inquiring about the NBC HD Olympics broadcast.

Due to commercial contractural obligations, upconverted same day NBC SD Olympics programming will air on WTHR-DT 13.1 in prime time simultaneously with channel 13. The full separate HD broadcast of tonight’s opening ceremonies with full Dolby 5.1 true surround will air on WTHR-DT 13.1 starting at 11:35 PM tonight. This is the schedule on WTHR-DT for the 2004 Summer Olympics, HD coverage with 5.1 Dolby sound will air each evening beginning at 11:35 PM on channel 13.1.

Sincerely,
Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering and Operations
WTHR NBC 13/WTHR-DT 13.1/13.2

Thanks for the information.

That REALLY sucks. Thanks a lot, WTHR.

Oh come on, you mean they are only going to broadcast HD in the off hours. Thats a bunch of *@$%.

To add salt to the wound when they were simulcasting the NBC HD feed was in distorted fat-o-vision. I know athletes have broad shoulders but it was a bit much.

The one good bit was when they actually started HD it was quite good.

This is really ridiculous. Is 13 really serious about this 11:35 p.m. stuff? I'd really like to know what "commercial contractual obligations" they refer to that prevents the best video technology available from being telecast during waking hours. This of the most important athletic event on the planet. Most of us with HD have it becaused we worked for it. During normal business hours. What can we do to change this?

What can we do? Not really sure other than as many us as possible continuing to write the networks and stations. Maybe the message will get across that there really is a market for HD properly displayed in prime time.

From what I've seen most of the station engineers want to put out the best signal possible. FWIW I think it's part of the engineer gene. As to the program managers etc I really think it's just an expensive inconvenience to them. In general they don't even respond to email and what not.

I've pretty much quit watching TV live because of their "comercial obligations" and programming choices. At least for a car and scifi nut there just isn't much on network TV. I just can't set through 4 and 5 minute commercial breaks.

As far as the Olympics go the summer is a non event for me due to the politically correct lack of coverage of the shooting events. While they are certainly impressive athletes I just can't get wound up about track and field events.

I was pretty upset to not see the HD feed of the opening ceremonies last night, as well, and am a bit upset at WTHR's policy of showing HD only after 11:35. Luckily for those of us with D* (and I assume E*), we get the HD loop throughout the day, so we shouldn't miss too much sleep watching HD Olympic coverage.

bakem

Not to sound dense here but I want to confirm the WTHR Olympics coverage schedule. Here is how I understood it.

During the day and primetime 13-1 will have same broadcast as 13 just upconverted in 2.0 sound.

At 11:35pm they will have HD broadcast. I'm assuming this will just be a replay of the events that were played during the day/primetime? Or is it an entirely different set of programming and will it loop all night long until the next morning. My confusion is in the fact that my HDTivo is showing all of their broadcasts in HD which is not accurate apparently.

Do I understand the situation correctly?

Good news for Michiana viewers: WNDU-DT eliminated their 4:3 SD subchannel for the HD Olympics coverage, so the full bitrate HD images are stunning! And, it's in full DD 5.1 as well! Thank you, WNDU!

According to Dish's website, the Indy DMA is allowed to receive the HD feed via their HD receivers; I would hope DirecTV would have the same arrangement.

Now, if they could get a different HD commercial than the one Sony "Hey, Todd!" Wega HD Theater ad seen every five minutes...

Originally posted by dehaai5
Not to sound dense here but I want to confirm the WTHR Olympics coverage schedule. Here is how I understood it.

During the day and primetime 13-1 will have same broadcast as 13 just upconverted in 2.0 sound.

At 11:35pm they will have HD broadcast. I'm assuming this will just be a replay of the events that were played during the day/primetime? Or is it an entirely different set of programming and will it loop all night long until the next morning. My confusion is in the fact that my HDTivo is showing all of their broadcasts in HD which is not accurate apparently.

Do I understand the situation correctly?

NBC's HD coverage is a different production than their SD production -- different events, different announcers, etc.. For example, the HD version of the opening ceremonies had two pretty bad announcers (can't remember their names, but they said a lot of really stupid things). The SD version had Katie Couric and Bob Costas.

So, during the day, 13-1 will have the same programming as analog 13 (despite what the program guide says). At night, when we're all asleep, they show the HD production.

Other NBC stations around the country are showing the HD production around the clock on their digital channels, in lieu of ALL other programming.

Jeff

I wasn't home last evening so I missed the opening ceremony, but this morning I was watching it in HD on WTHR-DT. At the same time (around 8:30 a.m.) I was able to receive WLWT-DT 35, Cincinnati, and it was airing the same HD broadcast of the opening ceremony, except it was an hour ahead of WTHR-DT due to the time difference.

Steve

Thats odd that they would time shift something like that. Isn't the HD already delayed? It isn't the same thing as whats on the analog anyways, so why the need to timeshift it again?

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
Thats odd that they would time shift something like that. Isn't the HD already delayed? It isn't the same thing as whats on the analog anyways, so why the need to timeshift it again?

Ryan,

??????....."Due to commercial contractural obligations"........Who knows what's going on with this local station! Besides a few hours of HD this morning, WTHR-DT is not passing along the 24/7 HD broadcasts like many other affiliate stations are doing in other markets.

Steve

Steve and Randy,

I am getting all the channels including WISH- HD at very good signal strength. The problem was my amp on the antenna was going out and a few weeks ago it went no HD. I had a new one installed and everythings fine. Maybe thats whats going with your signal strength Randy. I had Jim come over and fix it. He said he was sad to see you go to another store.
Anyway everything working fine.

Brad

Brad,

I'm glad you figured out your reception problem with WISH-DT. Now we know that the station's signal was okay.

.........Regarding HD coverage of the Olympics, it's really sad that instead of watching it this morning from WTHR-DT, 3 miles away, I'm being forced to watch it from WLWT-DT, Cincinnati, 101 miles away. The PQ is really great! Since 6:30 a.m., I've been able to receive this station. Some of you in the area with a good, directional outside antenna might be able to receive this station from time to time. Some early morning troposperic enhancement is helping the signal this morning for probably another hour or so. Good luck.

Steve

I fianally got it tuned in. After trial and error, more error than trial, I was able to tune in my double bowtie antenna to pick up 8.1. After some scientific calculations I was able to determint that I needed to elevate the anterior portion of the antenna around 10 degrees. In other words I shoved a blank DVD cover under the front legs and it worked. :)

Now I'm wondering what I can tweak/play with next.

One of my DXing friends in Kentucky is watching the olympic coverage in HD from WAVE-DT, Louisville. Here's a comment from him about WAVE-DT's HD broadcast..............

"They are
inserting local breaks in the HD coverage. At least they were in prime time
last night. The breaks include "thanks for watching WAVE-DT" promos and
spots from actual clients, like H.H. Gregg and Ovation. Kudos to WAVE...they
have the right idea."

The last I checked, H. H. Gregg and Ovation were Indianapolis based businesses. If WTHR-13 is afraid of lost revenue from viewers switching over to WTHR-DT, then maybe someone at WTHR should call WAVE and learn how to sell commercial time, because it appears that the concept is working in Louisville!! WAVE-DT is selling spots and making money, while viewers are seeing those local spots and enjoying HD coverage of the Summer Olympics.

Steve

Steve,

If you (or anyone) can find out more about this "contractual agreement," I would like to know as I want to make sure I start a major bitching campain to WTHR and direct it at the right person/department.

I am very displeased with WTHR on their decision. I will not let this go without some discussion from myself with someone.

Brad,

I have a major dislike for outdoor pre amp antenna boosters...but I think the one up top or the distribution amp behind my tv is bad. Been busy in various stores....but should have my amps replaced shortly. What did Jim use for yours?

I watched some of the NBC Broadcast of the Olympics on WTWO Terre Haute in SD 480I since that is all they are broadcasting. I was going to crash after the Re Opening of our Lafayette Store (they did pickup the majority of the Indy Stations with a sh$$$ excuse me.... bad Antenna) but will check 13 and see if I can get it in HD here at home.

I think if we all knew how much stuff is being shot in HD and the networks not broadcasting it as such we would be really pissed (no offense to Les).

Speaking of Les and I may have missed this.....(H H Gregg has been abusing me more ways than one the last few weeks) I saw that Fox will be doing 6 games on Sunday in HD......how about CBS?? As for WTHR.....I would think that they would want to capitalize on the HD images.....I know how many tv's I have sold (prior to promotion) and how many the company has. Even down here in lowly Spencer there are more tv's than you think, and a lot of people here have tuners in one way or another. And Insight has WTHR added to their mix.

drsimnal, jasonblair, rugby, Les, fgr41 and others.....I spent some time with Radio Shack, and have used their antennas and sold them. I am using Channel Master. I replaced a 90 mile rated Winegard with a 210 mile antenna at my parents house years ago and got half the reception I got on the small antenna.

TV Antenna's are rated over flat open terrain. When you have hills and trees cut that in half. I really am fond of my Channel master that I am using but am planning on upgrading to their 4228 from my 4248.

I put a small antenna from RS in a friends attic in Noblesville years ago. But RS stopped buying that antenna in the Mid 90's. Spend $50 or less on a Channel Master and use RG6 to come down and the cost will be less than $100 total and it will greatly improve your signal. You might even want to buy an adjustible gain amp or pre-amp. Forget these amplified stick or attach to a Satellite dish type antenna. The old fashioned standard antenna's work best.


Remember I am 72 miles from these towers, in a valley, and on top of that have a heavily forested hill between my tower and their transmitters.....and the hill is way taller than my tower. In an attic a standard UHF will work. But you need to buy for longer range reception. If you are 20 miles away buy something rated for at least 40 miles. The roof will block signal.

For over 40 minutes now, WTHR-DT has been broadcasting two audio feeds simultaneously. One is the Today Show and the other is the HD broadcast of the Summer Olympics. The video feed is the Today Show.

Steve

Quote: "(no offense to Les)"

Huh?

Randy,

All the stuff is Channel Master.

Brad

Originally posted by goldrich
For over 40 minutes now, WTHR-DT has been broadcasting two audio feeds simultaneously. One is the Today Show and the other is the HD broadcast of the Summer Olympics. The video feed is the Today Show.

Steve

How nice of them.

This morning I sent this email to Steve Hicks in the engineering department at WTHR. His reply is at least more positive than what we saw over the weekend regarding HD coverage of the Summer Olympics. Fingers crossed????.................

Steve,

Between 7 and 8 a.m. this morning, WTHR-DT was broadcasting two audio feeds simultaneously, the Today Show and the HD feed of the Summer Olympics.

What a disappointment to not be able to watch the olympics in HD 24/7 like most markets. When I can receive it, I've been watching it on WLWT-DT 35, Cincy. I understand that WAVE-DT 47, Louisville sold spots to H.H. Gregg and Ovation to sponsor their HD broadcasts.

Steve
..........................................................

Steve Hicks' reply.....

Steve,

this changes almost by the minute, right now we are to air HD from 11:35pm to the following day at 5pm, we will roll in local spots once an hour. this has changed several times over the weekend. we are airing upconverted during primetime to fulfill committents to our clients, but that may change.

the audio problem was my operator switched to the today show and did not turn off the 5.1 surround sound back to l/r stereo. we will remove one finger for that, this is one of these guys who never does anyting wrong, in fact his peers call him mr tv he jsut know it all :>) thanks and I will keep you informed as best as I can.

Steve

Originally posted by Foxbat
...

According to Dish's website, the Indy DMA is allowed to receive the HD feed via their HD receivers; I would hope DirecTV would have the same arrangement.



DirecTV Channel 84 is carrying HD Olympics in the Indianapolis market 24 hrs. per day. It is an 8 hour loop repeated 3 times in 24 hours. The loops begin at 3am, 11am and 7pm. The coverage is well over 24 hours delayed. With all of this delayed and late night programming this is where the HDTivo helps a little.

Is anyone besides me not getting WTHR on 46.1? I get a signal of 85 but no picture or sound. The news channel on 46.2 comes in fine.

Originally posted by jculp99
DirecTV Channel 84 is carrying HD Olympics in the Indianapolis market 24 hrs. per day. It is an 8 hour loop repeated 3 times in 24 hours. The loops begin at 3am, 11am and 7pm. The coverage is well over 24 hours delayed. With all of this delayed and late night programming this is where the HDTivo helps a little.

Yes, the DirecTV schedule you are referring to is the same HD feed that MOST NBC digital stations are offering OTA, except for WTHR-DT and a few others. I had DirecTV up until about 3 months ago when I switched to digital cable from Bright House, which doesn't offer that many HD stations. With situations like this I may be switching back to DirecTV.

Steve

Originally posted by Les Auber
Is anyone besides me not getting WTHR on 46.1? I get a signal of 85 but no picture or sound. The news channel on 46.2 comes in fine.

Les, here at 7:51 p.m., I'm getting both 46.1 and 46.2 just fine with a normal signal level. 46.1 has WTHR-DT's upconverted "stretch-o-screen" featured at the moment.

Steve

Thanks Steve. Do wish they'd get over the distort-o-vision thing.

I wonder if they have implemented a broadcast flag to prevent HD recording? The opening ceremonies came in fine Saturday night but when I scanned through Sunday and again tonight nothing but a steady signal. I'm still getting everything else as usual. I would have thought my ancient HiPix would have ignored such flags and so on. If this is the case it does not bode well for the future.

Wow! Summer Olympics in HD 24/7 on WTHR-DT!! Here's an update from Steve Hicks..................

Steve,

"Let the parties be rescheduled! as of 11am WTHR will telecast the Olympics 24/7 on 46.1in HD from NBC without going to SD for any coverage, we will be airing local spots at 54:30 each hour where provided but all programming will be done in HD..... thought you would like to know...."

Steve

............................................................ .....................

Thank you, WTHR-DT.........

I recorded 10 minutes of WMAQ-DT NBC5 Chicago with my Sasem OnAir USB box and don't have any problems playing back the transport stream on any computer using VLC. Either the broadcast flag hasn't been implemented, or Sasem's tuner/software is not obeying the spec.

ALLRIGHT!

Thanks to WTHR-DT, Steve Hicks, and goldrich for the information.
This will help me "sell" future HDTV expenditures in my household when my wife and daughter can watch the Olympics live in HD tonight.
Not sure about all the behind the scenes stuff, but this would seem to be a winner for both the station and consumers.
Nat

This will help me "sell" future HDTV expenditures in my household when my wife and daughter can watch the Olympics live in HD tonight.


Better start that tomorrow night, and take a break from the Olympics tonight- the HD coverage is delayed 24 hours, is on an 8 hour loop, and is from limited venues. Make sure you plan it right, or else that might do more harm than good.

Originally posted by auribe14
Better start that tomorrow night, and take a break from the Olympics tonight- the HD coverage is delayed 24 hours, is on an 8 hour loop, and is from limited venues. Make sure you plan it right, or else that might do more harm than good.

This simpleton needs some help.
From what was posted earlier, I made the leap of faith assumption that we would see live Olympics tonight.
I think you are saying that all we're getting is one more replay of yesterday's action during the hours when analog is showing live action.
What's so great about that?
I'm confused.......:confused:

Nat

Yes, But that is not because of WTHR... NBC has mandated that all HD material be delayed 24hours... So tonight you will see HDTV replays of stuff in Analog last night...

Make sense?

Greg

This simpleton needs some help.
From what was posted earlier, I made the leap of faith assumption that we would see live Olympics tonight.
I think you are saying that all we're getting is one more replay of yesterday's action during the hours when analog is showing live action.
What's so great about that?


Pretty pictures???
:)

My other point was that the HD presentation is totally different from the analog show. I believe that there are only 6 venues that are wired for HD. Also, the extras (graphics and abundant camera angles) are apparently also limited. And it is not necessarily top-name voice talent, either.

My point was to make sure that you did your homework before using the Olympics HD as a selling tool.

<<< So tonight you will see HDTV replays of stuff in Analog last night...

Make sense? >>>

It makes sense, but to be honest, I'd rather watch the analog feed presented in a digital format than watch the third re-run of what I saw last night on analog channel 13. I saw the Romanian women win the gold in gymnastics this morning in HD. Don't particularly care to see it again tonight.

Digital live, even if in 480p and not HD, beats the time out of the third consecutive replay of last night's activities.

I would say that while it may be technically accurate to say that we now have "24-7 HD," if what you all are saying is true (tonight's HD is just one more delayed replay), then we're moved backward, not forward...

Just my opinion.

Nat

I don't think that we've moved completely backwards. How about one step back, two steps forward? I think the biggest problem most of us had with the previous setup was that we couldn't watch HD in prime time. That has been resolved. Now if we'd all just not watch the analog live feed tonight and not read the sports pages tomorrow morning we'll all be in heaven tomorrow night. Do that every night until the Olymipics are over.

Just a thought.

Greg

Now that they've done what we all asked for, I think I liked it better the way it was. The 24 hour delay is bad, the lip-synch problems are worse. And does the sound on the HD production sound like the announcers are speaking into echo chambers?

Whine, whine, whine.... :)

Originally posted by IndyJeff
Now that they've done what we all asked for, I think I liked it better the way it was. The 24 hour delay is bad, the lip-synch problems are worse. And does the sound on the HD production sound like the announcers are speaking into echo chambers?

Whine, whine, whine.... :)

Well, it looks like the station heard your comments. I was watchng beautiful HD coverage until 7 p.m. when WTHR-DT switched to upconverted SD in its weird "stretch-o-screen" where some of the graphics are chopped off. What a waste of updated equipment to watch analog TV on an HDTV channel.....whine, whine, whine. Plus, the analog telecast contains all of these sappy personal stories..............At least there's NFL football on FOX in widescreen tonight.........

BTW, I just noticed that Daystar has now taken over the former WTBU-69. It is now WDTI, and even though it's not yet on the air, the station is also IDing its digital channel as WDTI-DT 44.

Steve

Does anyone know why Nexstar stations such as wfft fox in ft wayne are dragging their feet as far as HD is concerned? Right now wfft is only broadcasting at less than 1% that the fcc has licensed them to. (currently they are at .97kW when they have the ability to go to 1000kW. But I've heard that other Nexstar stations don't do HD either.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
Does anyone know why Nexstar stations such as wfft fox in ft wayne are dragging their feet as far as HD is concerned? Right now wfft is only broadcasting at less than 1% that the fcc has licensed them to. (currently they are at .97kW when they have the ability to go to 1000kW. But I've heard that other Nexstar stations don't do HD either.
Nexstar bought their stations Acrodyne low-power transmitters, which explains WFFT's sub-kilowatt pathetic excuse for a DTV signal.

Quoting from an HDTV site for the Rochester, NY DMA:
Digital transmissions currently may be low-power, but full-power transmission will be required by a future date to be established by the FCC. The FCC left the decision of which digital format to be transmitted up to individual broadcasters. Nexstar Broadcasting Group, Inc. has made a decision to broadcast standard definition digital signals until such time as the FCC mandates high definition broadcasts or the viewer base supports the additional costs associated with transmitting a high definition signal."

(source) (http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/viewtopic.php?p=289)

I sure hope that someone else buys wfft. To bad granite doesn't want to. Nexstar should just sell out to some other company that could learn how to manage and get their act together. That link that you posted explains wfft's lightbulb on thier tower. They should pass the signal into their airplane alert lightbulbs. I would have a better chance at getting the signal from those. LOL I guarentee that if wfft went hi def this fall and passed along all the nfl games that fox offers in HD, their viewship would skyrocket. That would also help sell hd tvs and integrated hd tvs. So has the fcc mandated a full power date for digital?

I wonder if any of you can give me some insight what's going on?

I just put up a Channel Master 4228 with a CM Spartan 3 model 64DSB pre-amp. I live in Greencastle which is about 40 west of Indy. I think I've got everything lined up correctly (antennaweb said most of the Indy stations are about 67 degrees. While I was messing around with the antenna I scanned and channel 23 was in the group. No picture but was there...... once. I don't get channel 20 at all. Never did. That's the one I really want. Any idea why I haven't even got a blip for WFYI?

From my limited understanding is that channel 8 isn't even on UHF and if you can get it then you're getting a strong signal. Well I'm getting it fine. About 80% all the time. This just frustrates me more that I can't pick up UPN or PBS.

I can receive these channels:

8-1 WISH HD
8-2 WISH LWS
8-3 WISH Radar
13-1 WTHR HD
13-2 WTHR Skytrack
25-1 WRTV HD
25-1 WRTV NC64
59-1 WXIN DT
63-1 WIPX DT
63-2 WIPX PaxWest
63-3 WIPX Worship
63-4 WIPX Faith

All these are all coming in quite well. I just don't understand why WFYI isn't even coming in poorly. It just has never come in.

Originally posted by crawdad62
I wonder if any of you can give me some insight what's going on?

........This just frustrates me more that I can't pick up UPN or PBS.

........I just don't understand why WFYI isn't even coming in poorly. It just has never come in.

Unfortunately for you, both of these digital stations are using directional antennas and you are not in the best location to receive them. Some stations are required by the FCC to use directional antennas in order to protect the coverage area of another station(s), analog or digital, on the same channel. These two stations are only sending around half of their power in your direction, according to my estimates. Here are links to the coverage maps and the field strength percentages.......

WNDY-DT http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=TV&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=616116

WFYI-DT http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=TV&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=633340

I'm not saying it is impossible to receive these stations in your area, but it will certainly be more of a challenge. For starters, you'll need a very good antenna setup with very precise aiming of the antenna. WFYI's tower is just a few hundred feet away from WRTV's tower at 79th St. and Township Line Road, near many of the other Indy towers. Meanwhile, WNDY's tower is located north of Noblesville, near Strawtown, which is about 22 miles farther away. From your location, you may need to aim the antenna a few more degrees to the north for this station. The 4228 is a fairly directional antenna, so moving the antenna just a few degrees might mean the difference between a good signal and no signal at all.

Have you tried receiving WTIU-DT 14 (30-1) PBS, Bloomington? WTIU's programming schedule is very similar to WFYI's. This station also has a directional antenna but it appears that you might be in one of its more favorable locations. Here's a link to this station's info.......

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=TV&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=687231

I hope some of this info helps you.

Steve

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I sure hope that someone else buys wfft. To bad granite doesn't want to. Nexstar should just sell out to some other company that could learn how to manage and get their act together. That link that you posted explains wfft's lightbulb on thier tower. They should pass the signal into their airplane alert lightbulbs. I would have a better chance at getting the signal from those. LOL I guarentee that if wfft went hi def this fall and passed along all the nfl games that fox offers in HD, their viewship would skyrocket. That would also help sell hd tvs and integrated hd tvs. So has the fcc mandated a full power date for digital?
The FCC wants the top 100 markets to go full power by July 2005 or lose their interference guarantees. Here's the bad news: Fort Wayne is market #105. :mad: :mad: :mad: That means FAUX 55 can wait till July '06 (This is a coincidence, we're talking about channel 55 on page 55. Cool.).

Originally posted by goldrich
Unfortunately for you, both of these digital stations are using directional antennas and you are not in the best location to receive them. Some stations are required by the FCC to use directional antennas in order to protect the coverage area of another station(s), analog or digital, on the same channel. These two stations are only sending around half of their power in your direction, according to my estimates. Here are links to the coverage maps and the field strength percentages.......



Have you tried receiving WTIU-DT 14 (30-1) PBS, Bloomington? WTIU's programming schedule is very similar to WFYI's. This station also has a directional antenna but it appears that you might be in one of its more favorable locations. Here's a link to this station's info.......

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=TV&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=687231

I hope some of this info helps you.

Steve

Thanks Steve. I'm pretty sure it must be an aiming problem. My neighbor is able to pick up FYI. I had thought about WTIU since I'm probably more familiar with it than WFYI since that's the PBS channel carried by our cable company. However I'm not using a rotor and I'm trying to get Indy locals just because there's more to get in that area.

I'm really locked in with trees so I'll be curious once they fall what happens.

Thanks again,
Joel

crawdad62
I live in Spencer and I pick up WFYI-DT in the high 80's and WNDY-DT in low 80's but I must have the antenna aimed right.

Brad

Hey, Does anyone know about the Comcast HD Set-Top-Box that includes a DVR? I have heard bits about it, but I want to know if it's avail. in Indy. I called.. Customer Service was less than helpful.. just a "when it's ready you will find out" type response.

Any help from y'all?

^
The customer rep I talked to said tihey were trying to have it available around the start of football season, and they'd possibly mail something out about it. I'd say your best bet is to just call every few days, that's what I've been doing.

Thanks Purdue.. I've been having the internal debate: Tivo now, or wait until Comcast puts their DVR on the market. If this holds true, 'football season' is only 2 more weeks away! :) Colts, Pats.. rematch!!

Originally posted by Purdue1906
^
The customer rep I talked to said tihey were trying to have it available around the start of football season, and they'd possibly mail something out about it. I'd say your best bet is to just call every few days, that's what I've been doing.
I've been following a thread elsewhere on this forum about Comcast's deployment of these recorders in other markets. Suffice it to say that you shouldn't believe everything the Comcast CSR tells you;)

Follow this link to go to the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=321762

I'll believe it's available when I have one setting in my house!

Ken

So, what would you do? Tivo or wait for Comcast DVR?

Originally posted by bradyusi
So, what would you do? Tivo or wait for Comcast DVR?
Well, I have a Zenith OTA DVR, so I have the ability to record local stations, and I'm not in a real rush.

With that said, I'll probably wait until the Comcast boxes have been out locally for a while, enough for all the "bugs" to get squished, then I might get one of them. It would be nice to be able to record cable channels.

Ken

So is anyone planning on going to the Cedia pary at Jillians?

G

If anyone has noticed strange sounding DD5.1 on WFIE DT46 Evansville, their engineer says they are aware of the problem and are working on it.

Soundstage on PBS has quickly become a favorite HD offering in my house. However, in my opinion, the picture quality this summer is far lacking the razor-sharpness we saw last year. I have recorded clips from last season to prove it, and I've had several people verify I'm not imagining things. I haven't seen anybody mention this on the national Soundstage threads, though.

When playing clips on my computer recently, I noticed something... last season's clips need deinterlacing to play on a computer monitor, and this season's don't. Does this mean WFYI has switched from 1080i to 720p? That would explain the loss of detail. I think I remember reading that 720p requires slightly less bandwidth, so I'm guessing they did this when 20-3 was added as a subchannel. Does anybody know if I'm on track here?

If so, it's a real shame, as PBS programming typically isn't of the variety that benefits from increased frame rate, so we're just left with a softer picture in exchange for the "Ideas!" channel. Not exactly what I would prefer.

I emailed WFYI and heard back from engineering stating that they switched to 720p since they were seeing a lot of issues with 1080i. Presumably from reducing the bandwidth which they allocated to the other sub-channels.

DirectorBoy, I completely agree with you. I, too, recently noticed the softer looking HD on WFYI-DT and then I noticed my STB was indicating 720p. So I checked WTIU-DT 14, Bloomington and found that it was still using 1080i. WTIU-DT's 1080i picture appears sharper when comparing the two stations. BTW, WTIU-DT is currently using just one sub-channel, which is the analog feed from ch. 30, and WTIU-DT's lip sync problems are now much, much better.

Steve

For the first time, I just noticed that WXIN-DT is sending 720p. At the moment, Fox News Sunday is on and the PQ looks very good. The first NFL game in HD on FOX is set for two weeks from today.

(Ken Whitcomb came over last week and calibrated my RPTV. What a great improvement! Thanks, Ken.)

I'm about done with some software updates, and Radar is back on 8-3. WISH-HD may be down for an hour or so late this afternoon while I update its software.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
I'm about done with some software updates, and Radar is back on 8-3. WISH-HD may be down for an hour or so late this afternoon while I update its software.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Thanks Tom for getting 9-3 back up.It made my ATSC11 get "stuck" and would take forever to tear it loose.Now maybe you can get the audio levels on 9-1 and 9-2 to even out.9-1 is about 18db higher than 9-2.>g<

GregB

I just noticed last night that WTHR was not using their half-stretch on upconverts (and that someone forgot to flip the switch for Father of the Pride). Is this new since the Olympics? Why all of a sudden the change? I'm happy with it though. Now I can decide whether I want to stretch it to fit my screen, or let it stay at 4:3.

bakem

And I just noticed WISH broadcasting in DD 5.1 for what seems to be the first time, at least for me.

Greg

hhhmmmm

Decide to give WTHR (NBC) a watch with the new series Hawaii.

HD, yes!
Dialog, NO! :(

If I have a nickle for everytime WTHR wasted my time....

Note: I didn't bother to watch it normally and guess I won't bother again. Yeah, I'm taking a hard line now.

Originally posted by Jim_Hunt
hhhmmmm

Decide to give WTHR (NBC) a watch with the new series Hawaii.

HD, yes!
Dialog, NO! :(

If I have a nickle for everytime WTHR wasted my time....

Note: I didn't bother to watch it normally and guess I won't bother again. Yeah, I'm taking a hard line now.

It took me a while to figure it out. I could hear certain channels of sound just not the dialog. At first I just figured it was some avant-garde opening:D

I didn't bother to check the SD channel either. Oh well I was kind of looking forward to it but I just watched something on Tivo instead.

Hi fellow Hoosiers. This Friday, if the stars are still aligned, I'm supposed to get E* installed with HD for one receiver. I've never had satellite service, but I live in Pike township in an area where my only cable choice, Comcast, says HD is not an option. The people installing the dish say they will not install an OTA for locals. How hard is it to do? My HD set will be in the basement. Antenna web shows most all the locals about 6 miles to the west, except WNDY which is 25 miles away. If I put it in the basement, I can just plug it into the receiver. My attic is unaccessible without a ladder, and I'm afraid of heights. If I have to put it somewhere like the attic, how do you splice it in with the dish feed?

Also, I see each DTV station has a number (like WISH is 8 and 8.1). How do I watch these with the dish receiver? Will channel 8 be WISH and 25.1 be WRTV or do you switch back and forth between satellite feed and OTA? Sorry about dumb questions, but I've never seen any set up with OTA. I can't wait to see HD on my 8'screen! Thanks for all help!!!

drsimnal,

Are you CERTAIN you can't get Comcast HDTV??? It told me the same thing on their website (when I typed in my address it said HD is not currently offered in your area or something like that).. But my buddy stays in the same apartment complex as me and he has Comcast cable as well as I already had Comcast High Speed Internet, so I knew I should be able to get the cable service. Called Comcast, and they came out about a week later and got me hooked up with Comcast HD as well as digital cable. I currently have Dish Network but will be cancelling my contract (wasn't about to pay $400 or $1000 for an HD receiver, when I can rent one from Comcast for $5 a month and upgrade to an HDPVR when it's available in Indy).

BTW, I live just west of the 465 loop off of 38th street, which is not too far from Pike Twnshp.

Purdue,
Well, I live north of 86th and Lafayette and there isn't alot of development out there. I've not called and pushed the issue, mostly because I've gotten annoyed with comcast's prices and poor customer service.

Quick note re: WTHR

If you were watching Sept. 1, you might have had some problems watching, because they had some problems getting the signal out of the building. They took frequent power hits during the evening hours. Give them another try, hopefully the stuff will be fixed soon. I am unsure if any equipment was damaged.

Secondly.. I am trying to pick up WISH-TV, and am getting zero signal strength. I am at Shelbyville and Southport Rds. I'm using an RCA indoor antenna, just to get things set up. Eventually, I might splurge for a better outdoor or indoor antenna. Just don't know yet. But.. AFC Football is IMPORTANT! so.. can anyone help me on WISH-TV?

I was just wondering if any forum members who know Indianapolis well could help with suggestions on what bars in the downtown core that carry HDTV displays.
I am looking for a bar within walking distance of the RCA dome convention center on thursday sept. 9th opening night for the NFL football with the Colts vs. Pats .

Any reply's to this post would be appreciated thanks.
REWJR.

You might have better luck posting in the Indiana thread - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186022

Go Colts!

I guess Brady and I know how to clear a room;) . So, my second attempt to get satellite service was very successful yesterday! The Dish guys installed the receivers and after marvelling over Discovery HD for a while, I ran over to the Rat Shack and got an indoor $20 antenna and plugged it in downstairs. I've now answered my own question about tuning in the local stations, the receiver did that and now they're saved in the program guide, so it's pretty easy. I get 7 locals, including all the major networks. I'm really only missing UPN, whose tower is much further away. I can live with that, since it will save a trip up into the attic. As for HD--all I can say is Wow.

Hey.. Drsimnal..

Do you have Dish Network? Make sure you go into the setup menu --> HD Setup and change the output to 1080i. The guy who set up my friends dish left it at 480, and left us going.. this ain't HD!!

Also.. can you pick up WISH-TV?

Do you have Dish Network? Make sure you go into the setup menu --> HD Setup and change the output to 1080i. The guy who set up my friends dish left it at 480, and left us going.. this ain't HD!!

Same thing here, but I was playing with the setup alot because the digital optical sound output wasn't working. I went into the HD area out of curiosity and found I was in 480. Since then I've played with 720 and 1080. To be fair, the dish booklet states in the HD section it's left at 480 until you go and change it, but how many people read the book? I was trying to figure out the sound thing. Thought it was the toslink, but then I found I had 5.1 sound on the HD channels but there is nothing on the analog channels unless you switch the receiver to analog mode. Weird.

Also.. can you pick up WISH-TV?

Yes, I can. IIRC, it's strength wasn't as good as say WTHR but had no problem with it. I'll go check the strength of the locals later tonight. Did you try an amplified antenna? I got a non-amplified one, but maybe that would help.

Now, I have a Dish local antenna, and everything works fine. Woo Hoo! Thanks!

I just bought a Toshiba 46H84. I live in Bloomington, Indiana which is about an hour from Indianapolis. What do I need to watch HDTV and would I be able to pick up many stations in my area?

David,
Congrats on getting into the HD arena. I just got mine hooked up through Dish on Friday, and it's incredible. There's a whole big thread about Indiana DTV here:

Indiana DTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186022)

I'm in Indy and have no problems with a cheap antenna, but you'll want to check here:

antennaweb (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx)

Good luck!

Well since I'm in an apartment I would need to have a small indoor antenna. I guess that means I wouldn't be able to pick up any HD stations this far from Indianapolis.

I tried to watch Hawaii tonight on WTHR-DT. Again, like last year's HD shows, the audio and video are not even close to being synched. Does anyone know why this problem persists on WTHR?

I'm in Bloomington, and have had HD through Insight since they rolled it out. It hasn't been perfect, but overall I've been pretty impressed with how well things have gone. I get artifacts sometimes, and rarely it will drop out for a few minutes. I'm a big fan of the builtin recording on the new boxes, it makes HBO and Showtime a lot more worth the money to be able to record movies and watch them when I get a chance. Of course Showtime shows films in the OAR, but rarely has anything worth watching, and HBO has better movies, but butchers everything to 16x9.

I get:

CBS
ABC
PBS
NBC
Bravo HD
HBO
Showtime
Discovery HD
ESPN HD
HDNet
HDNet Movies

with FOX supposedly showing up at any time.

I've had by HD set since 2000, so I spent a few years looking into OTA reception before Insight got things running, and I'd say your chances of getting anything with an indoor antenna are pretty close to 0. Depending on your location and altitude, your chances with an outdoor antenna might be pretty close to 0 as well.

If you are in an Apartment the only programing you would pick up with an antenna would be WTIU HD, on a rare instance you might get channel 4 hd. But since kaldec recommended Insight I would have to agree. I did Audio Video sales in Bloomington at HH Gregg and a lot of HD sets there. I live in Spencer and have a tower, rotor, and amplifier system and can get all the HD signals from Indy, Terre Haute, Vincennes, Bloomington and 4's tower in Trafalgar. You would need a outdoor UHF antenna, and either a HD Antenna tuner, or HD satellite receiver.

I would go with insight......

I'm still waiting for WTWO (NBC in Terre Haute) to start broadcasting something other than 480i on the Digital channel. I gave up on them during the Nascar Race Saturday night and switched my Mitsubishi to my Direct Tv box. I switched back later got a great picture and thought great they finally switched....then I realized I was on 13.1 and the HD broadcast was finally coming in.


Oh well.........at least I get WRTV, and both WISH and WTHI both CBS (Wish has better audio)... GO COLTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Threads Merged.

I just entered both the big screen TV and HD world last week. I have a new 62" Mitsubishi DLP and Insight came out to hook up an HD cable box.
HDNet and Discovery HD just look...amazing. However, I watched CSI on the WISH HD station thru Insight and it, in comparison, just looked awful.
I've seen great stuff on ABC and NBC, but the stuff on CBS (which I thought was the farthest along in HD content), just doesn't look like HD to me.
Is it something with my setup?

I know this might sound basic Rufhausen.. but CSI and for that matter, other programs that are in HD won't look as 'great' as HDNet or DiscoveryHD, because CSI et. al. might be either upconverted from a widescreen filming, or they might be upconverted from the CBS/NBC/ABC/FOX standard feed to the HD channel.

Normally, you can tell if this is the case if the crystal bug (the CBS eye, NBC peacock) are either streched, or falling off the screen.

Originally posted by bradyusi
I know this might sound basic Rufhausen.. but CSI and for that matter, other programs that are in HD won't look as 'great' as HDNet or DiscoveryHD, because CSI et. al. might be either upconverted from a widescreen filming, or they might be upconverted from the CBS/NBC/ABC/FOX standard feed to the HD channel.


I was kind of thinking along those lines as well. I did see a show tonight that looked much better (NCIS?).
Thx.

Are you guys now getting ABC HD??? I just turned on my box this morning and it's in the 200's! If this is true, yahoo!! Right in time for FSU/Miami Friday night!!!


Oh yeah and the Colts too, although being a NW Indiana, I cheer for Da Bears.

Has anyone else been having trouble with WISH 8.1? I was watching Amazing Race last night and the signal suddenly went to zero.

I have had a HD setup for 5 months now and it would seem that the dirty little secret of OTA HDTV is inconsistent and intermittant broadcasting problems.

<<< I have had a HD setup for 5 months now and it would seem that the dirty little secret of OTA HDTV is inconsistent and intermittant broadcasting problems. >>>

I am NOT an engineer, nor can I prove that the following information is up to date or valid, but I found the following data interesting.
All of these came from the web site http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/in/.
It gives easy access to official FCC data regarding TV stations.

Channel 25 (WRTV) - 898 K Watts
Channel 46 (WTHR) - 1,000 K Watts
Channel 9 (WISH) - 19.5 K Watts

These transmitters are all pretty close together geographically.
I would think these numbers should explain a LOT. I have found Channel 9 to have more pixelation and such, but I'm roughly fifty miles from their transmitter and can certainly understand that with less than 20K Watts, I can't expect as much.
I find that my picture quality from Channel 9 is more consistant from program to program than either 25 or 46. The football and golf from them can be worse than analog at times to my eyes.
All of this is terribly interesting. I feel like I'm spying on a giant experiment.

Nat Hill IV

Originally posted by risone
Has anyone else been having trouble with WISH 8.1? I was watching Amazing Race last night and the signal suddenly went to zero.

I have had a HD setup for 5 months now and it would seem that the dirty little secret of OTA HDTV is inconsistent and intermittant broadcasting problems.

I tried watching some of Big Brother on WISH 8.1, but the flickering of the colors was really annoying. Deep colors like red and blue would have a flicker. So I switched back to the analog channel for BB and The Amazing Race.

I agree - HD and digital TV has a long way to go before it's ready for the mainstream. Between color problems, and lip-synch problems, I think I would have stayed with a smaller non-HD TV set and cable. It always worked, all the time. I never spent time on forums looking for solutions to TV problems before I had HD... :)

Originally posted by nathill
<<< I have had a HD setup for 5 months now and it would seem that the dirty little secret of OTA HDTV is inconsistent and intermittant broadcasting problems. >>>

I am NOT an engineer, nor can I prove that the following information is up to date or valid, but I found the following data interesting.

Channel 25 (WRTV) - 898 K Watts
Channel 46 (WTHR) - 1,000 K Watts
Channel 9 (WISH) - 19.5 K Watts

These transmitters are all pretty close together geographically.
I would think these numbers should explain a LOT. I have found Channel 9 to have more pixelation and such, but I'm roughly fifty miles from their transmitter and can certainly understand that with less than 20K Watts, I can't expect as much.
I find that my picture quality from Channel 9 is more consistant from program to program than either 25 or 46. The football and golf from them can be worse than analog at times to my eyes.
All of this is terribly interesting. I feel like I'm spying on a giant experiment.

Nat Hill IV

Thank you for 'digging up' the info on broadcast strengths. It certainly goes a long way to explaining why conditions have to be more or less perfect to pick up WISH-DTV even though I am 17.5 miles from the tower with no obstructions and a fairly decent attic antenna with pre-amp.

Originally posted by nathill
Channel 25 (WRTV) - 898 K Watts
Channel 46 (WTHR) - 1,000 K Watts
Channel 9 (WISH) - 19.5 K Watts

Nat Hill IV

IF these figures are up to date, there are a couple of things to remember. First, the WISH-DT channel being broadcast on channel 9 will naturally propagate further than the UHF channels. Therefore, less power is needed to "go" the same distance. Secondly, this time of year, since Indiana lets the world change around us (at least our clocks, but that's a whole different story;) ), we are seeing "time shifted" prime time programming. This process sometimes leads to glitches.

With this being said, though, we ARE indeed watching a great evolution unfold on our HDTV sets. I know historically WISH-DT has been the most "rock-solid" of the local DTV stations. Also, CBS seems to have it's act together more from a programming stand-point. From my observations, WTHR has the most problems with lip-sync issues.

Ken

Originally posted by risone

I have had a HD setup for 5 months now and it would seem that the dirty little secret of OTA HDTV is inconsistent and intermittant broadcasting problems.

Welcome to the new frontier! This must be very much like the late 40's and early 50's when the first TV stations signed on and very much like the early 60's, which I remember, when color television first became popular. Inconsistent and intermittent broadcasting problems were very common. I've had my OTA HDTV setup for 3 years. Believe me when I say things are MUCH, MUCH better now than just 3 years ago. Just keep in mind that this is also a new adventure for network and local TV engineers.

Three years ago it was very rare to find an NFL game in HD. This NFL season, starting tomorrow night with the Colts, approximately 70% of all regular season games (ABC, CBS, FOX and ESPN) will be presented in HD. That's quite a turnaround. I know it's tough, but please be patient with this new technology.

Also, as has been discussed in prior posts, you cannot compare the output power of a VHF station against that of a UHF station. A UHF station requires much more power to blanket the same coverage area as a VHF station. For example, most current analog TV stations on VHF have a maximum power of 316kW for channels 7-13 (100kW for channels 2-6), while most current analog TV stations on UHF have a maximum power of 5000kW. And to date, it appears that a digital station can cover the same area as their analog counterpart with less power.

There's my 2 cents.

Steve

Steve;

<<< Also, as has been discussed in prior posts, you cannot compare the output power of a VHF station against that of a UHF station. >>>

I didn't mean to directly compare them when I posted the different wattages, but surely to goodness VHS isn't 50 times as efficient as UHF, is it?

WTHR (46) ---> 1,000 KW
WISH ( 9) ----> 19.5 KW

I enjoy your posts, and don't mean to be argumentative here. It just seems to me that surely that much difference in power might have something to do with WISH's signal quality. I know Channel 9's signal has more problems getting to me cleanly in Bloomington, especially when it is raining or there is thunder anywhere between Bloomington and Indy.
Super agree that all of this is fascinating to watch and I enjoy the steady progress of digital TV.

Nat

Nat........I tend to get 9.1 better than anything else from Indy, and I am 20 miles west of you in Spencer. It has been the rare case that I could not watch a program on 9.1, and I do have Wthi 10 Terre Haute (24.1) as a backup.

Rufhausen...since you are up in Fishers I would try an attic antenna with your Mits DLP. It has the over the air tuner in it.....and I have personal experience in the Hamilton County area...and know the OTA signal will be cleaner than the Cable feed. Watch the Colts on CBS live broad cast and compare it to ABC's broadcast Thursday night. They say 720P is better for sports, but give me a game in 1080I.....really prefer that signal.

And please stop reminding me I am getting old.......I can remember watching the Gemini Space shots as a child on TV up in Indpls using Rabbit ears. When I moved down to southern Indiana we went from 4 stations to 3 tv stations and could not get a good abc signal......

Many of us received this e-mail from Rick Poling @ Fox but didn't see it posted (sorry if I missed it) Should be of interest to those that are not on his list.

All - (dated Sept 8th)

The long-awaited transition of FOX to real high definition happens tonight
on WXIN-DT 59-1. We are today putting on the air the new equipment that
will allow us to transmit FOX in the 720p format. I understand that not all
shows are actually being produced in the 720p format yet, so don't be
surprised if some programs are still 480p or even 4:3 upconversions. But, I
understand that most of FOX's sports will be available in 720p, as will all
of this year's new programs.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some bugs in this new equipment, so if
you see something that doesn't look right or just plain doesn't work, do not
hesitate to reply to this message and let us know about it.

Rick Poling
RF Supervisor
WTTK-TV 29
WTTK-DT 54
WTTV-TV WB 4
WTTV-DT 53
WXIN-TV FOX 59
WXIN-DT 45

Kudos to WISH (Tom Weber) and whoever else may have been involved for the fine broadcast of the Colts/Pats game in HDTV last night. At least it made the loss more palatible.

Originally posted by risone
Kudos to WISH (Tom Weber) and whoever else may have been involved for the fine broadcast of the Colts/Pats game in HDTV last night. At least it made the loss more palatible.

I think you mean WRTV, not WISH since the game was on ABC.
I watched the game on Insight's WRTV-HD. Although the picture quality was generally outstanding, is it normal to see some pixelation in the grass field at a distance? Is that a cable compression thing or is it present OTA as well?

The compression is present OTA as well. Football on WRTV has never looked as good to me as it does on WISH. I understand the 1080i/720p difference, but the WRTV feed seems have more compression artifacts. I know both stations multicast, but WRTV must not allocate as much bandwidth to HD as WISH does.

On the pixelization on cable HD vs. OTA HD, it's possible that the cable companies -might- be compressing the HD signals a little bit further, but I suspect that it is darn little if any.

If we were transmitting ONLY HD, and no other streams, then the cable companies would have to reduce the bit rates a little bit to fit them into their own modulation formats. I suspect that with most of us Indy stations doing 15-16 Mbits for our HD streams, that isn't actually necessary.

On the power levels question, yes, there is a terrific penalty that's paid when moving from VHF to UHF. Part of the reason is that VHF is received at further distances than UHF, given equal transmit power levels. Another is that UHF signals tend to have a sharper curve to the horizon, VHF tends to follow the curvature of the earth a bit better, so the effective (radio) horizon is further out. So a VHF station with 316 kWatts is thought to have a coverage radius of maybe 60 miles. A UHF station with 5000 kWatts of power is thought to have a radius of 55 miles. (All other things being equal, which they never are....)

When trying to give approximately equal coverage to a VHF station that was given a DTV assignment in the UHF band, the unequal power levels between UHF and VHF were made even more unequal.

One final thing to remember is that transmit power levels and coverage radii are a logarithmic relation. If we doubled our transmit power, we might gain 2-3 miles of radius, not another 60 miles.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Hey Tom,

I just wanted to point out that for the last week or so, the volume levels between the CBS HDTV network feed and your local WISH feed are WAY OFF. I set the volume on my Samsung DLP to about 20 when watching the CBS Network stuff, but then when the commercials go local they blast me out! I have to scramble to turn the volume down to about 7 or 8 on my TV. Then when it goes back to the network feed, I have to turn it back up to 20.

Could you pass this along to whoever is setting the volume and eq levels at your station?

(Anyone else notice this problem as well?)

Thanks in advance!

Jason Blair

I asked this a few months ago, but I was wondering if WBAK in Terre Haute was going to be in 720p when Fox goes to HD?

Everyone else in my family lives in Terre Haute, and I always feel so bad for them. WTHI is the only decent station there.

I was under the impression that Fox was upgrading ALL of their affiliates to 720p. Does anyone know?


ALSO... how does one go about getting a waiver from WTWO once DirecTV starts carrying NBC in HD? DO you contact DirecTV, or do you call WTWO directly? I know stations aren't likely to grant a waiver, but I just wondered if anyone knew the correct procedure. Is there an FCC form I have to get from a website or anything?

Help!

Antenna help please.

I live in Carmel (near 136th & Keystone) and I got tired of no HDTV from Brighthouse so I got a Dish. I'm trying to get the OTA stations. I have tried a Jennsen and now a RCA indoor antennas and I lose several stations especially channel 8.

My HDTV is in the basement so this may be a big issue. Does anyone have any ideas of what I can do. The satellite does me no good if I can't get the stations or if it costs me a fortune to mount a hugh antenna.

One thought is a Silver Sensor type?

Thanks

Jerry

Originally posted by hoosierjerry
Antenna help please.

I live in Carmel (near 136th & Keystone) and I got tired of no HDTV from Brighthouse so I got a Dish. I'm trying to get the OTA stations. I have tried a Jennsen and now a RCA indoor antennas and I lose several stations especially channel 8.

My HDTV is in the basement so this may be a big issue. Does anyone have any ideas of what I can do. The satellite does me no good if I can't get the stations or if it costs me a fortune to mount a hugh antenna.

One thought is a Silver Sensor type?

Thanks

Jerry

Jerry,

I'm just a few miles away, near 106th and Keystone. Being so close to the TV towers, you should be able to receive them quite easily. Three years ago when I first got my HDTV setup, I discovered by accident that my best reception of WXIN-DT was with my Channel Master 4221 (4-bay outdoor antenna) sitting on the floor in my basement! Since then I've experimented with numerous outdoor antennas, outside and in the attic, but I'm not familiar with any of the indoor antennas. Hopefully someone else will have a suggestion on a good indoor antenna for this area.

If you'd care to try one of my outdoor antennas, let me know. I could even bring over the 4221 and try it in your basement. Do you have a storage area or large closet in your basement where you could hide a small outdoor antenna?

Steve

Originally posted by jasonblair
I asked this a few months ago, but I was wondering if WBAK in Terre Haute was going to be in 720p when Fox goes to HD?

Everyone else in my family lives in Terre Haute, and I always feel so bad for them. WTHI is the only decent station there.

I was under the impression that Fox was upgrading ALL of their affiliates to 720p. Does anyone know?


ALSO... how does one go about getting a waiver from WTWO once DirecTV starts carrying NBC in HD? DO you contact DirecTV, or do you call WTWO directly? I know stations aren't likely to grant a waiver, but I just wondered if anyone knew the correct procedure. Is there an FCC form I have to get from a website or anything?

Help!

Jason,

According to FCC files, WBAK-DT barely got on the air due to financial difficulties. And not all FOX stations are converting to 720p for HD, like WFFT, Fort Wayne. Recently I read that WBAK is now under some type of LMA (Local Marketing Agreement) with Nexstar, the owner of WTWO. From what I've read regarding Nexstar and HDTV, WBAK has gone from bad to worse. Just read the posts in other Nexstar markets, like Champaign and Fort Wayne.

The guys at the Champaign site ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4330379#post4330379 ) should be able to give you details on how to apply for a satellite waiver form. It's worth a try. Nexstar's WCIA (CBS), Champaign, has been granting waivers because it is not passing HD and has no plans to do so in the immediate future.

Steve

Originally posted by hoosierjerry
Antenna help please.

I live in Carmel (near 136th & Keystone) and I got tired of no HDTV from Brighthouse so I got a Dish. I'm trying to get the OTA stations. I have tried a Jennsen and now a RCA indoor antennas and I lose several stations especially channel 8.

My HDTV is in the basement so this may be a big issue. Does anyone have any ideas of what I can do. The satellite does me no good if I can't get the stations or if it costs me a fortune to mount a hugh antenna.

One thought is a Silver Sensor type?

Thanks

Jerry

Jerry,

When I was getting set up, I first tried an amplified indoor "HDTV" antenna from Radio Shack. Can't remember the model number, but it was ~$50. I was able to get the four majors pretty easily, and PBS most of the time (I'm at 141st and Cumberland). I was really wanting to lock in PBS and get WB and UPN, though, so I've got a CM 3016 in my attic now, and can get them all rock solid.
I don't know how your sat setup is done, but you might try diplexing a larger antenna onto your sat cable . No cable fishing to be done, and you're close enough to the transmitters that your signal should be plenty strong enough.

bakem

Hey guys,

Thanks for the advice. Steve I would love any help (see private message). I did try an outdoor antenna I found at Menards. It works fairly well inside, so I may try to mount outside below or over the dish.

Bakem When I looked at one of the add on antennas they said they work up to green on the color scale. The antenna.web site says I need a red.

Hey guys,

Thanks for the advice. Steve I would love any help (see private message). I did try an outdoor antenna I found at Menards. It works fairly well inside, so I may try to mount outside below or over the dish.

Bakem When I looked at one of the add on antennas they said they work up to green on the color scale. The antenna.web site says I need a red.

Hey guys,

Thanks for the advice. Steve I would love any help (see private message). I did try an outdoor antenna I found at Menards. It works fairly well inside, so I may try to mount outside below or over the dish.

Bakem When I looked at one of the add on antennas they said they work up to green on the color scale. The antenna.web site says I need a red.

Is anyone else getting bad sound on UPN 23? I'm hearing a lot of clicking, and it's really tinny. Watching OTA on a SAT-520 HD.

Jerry, I think you misunderstood me. The clip-on antennas are usually pretty useless. I was kind of describing what you were talking about. Mounting an antenna, then diplexing the signal from that antenna onto the sat lines. That way, you don't have to run any extra lines through the house for your OTA signal.

bakem

RE: FOX going HD and Insight Cable for HD in Bloomington

Can anyone confirm Fox is actually broadcasting in HD? Was the Bears - Lions game in HD today?

david118383, I second the recommendation for Insight for HD in Bloomington. I've had Insight HD since February. Very few complaints.

kaldec, great news on WXIN coming to the Insight HD lineup soon. Did you get this from the horses mouth? Any time I contact Insight about new channels I get the run-around.

Thanks all.

Bill Overman

Originally posted by woverman
RE: FOX going HD and Insight Cable for HD in Bloomington

Can anyone confirm Fox is actually broadcasting in HD? Was the Bears - Lions game in HD today?


Bears/Lions and Cowboys/Vikings both in HD on WXIN-HD. In fact, all 3 NFL games shown in the Indy market were in HD this afternoon.

Bill,

Yes, FOX is broadcasting the NFL games in HD today on WXIN-DT, including the Bears/Lions game. I'm currently watching the Cowboys/Vikings game. It is not as sharp and crisp looking as the games on CBS but it certainly is an improvement over FOX Widescreen. This is the first day of HD on FOX so I'm sure the network has some tweaking to do after today's games. Also, there have been some occasional problems with the 5.1 audio.

BTW, I'm watching it OTA from WXIN-DT. Bright House (TWC) does not currently offer this channel.

Steve

Originally posted by bakem84
Is anyone else getting bad sound on UPN 23? I'm hearing a lot of clicking, and it's really tinny. Watching OTA on a SAT-520 HD.
bakem

I noticed that last night watching Stargate SG-1. it sounded worse than a real player stream on a dialup connection

Originally posted by goldrich
Bill,

Yes, FOX is broadcasting the NFL games in HD today on WXIN-DT, including the Bears/Lions game. It is not as sharp and crisp looking as the games on CBS but it certainly is an improvement over FOX Widescreen. Steve

What kind of television are you watching it on? 1080i or 720p? My Samsung DLP is in 720p and I thought the WXIN and the other Fox games on NFL Sunday Ticket looked better than WISH and the CBS games. I figured that was because the CBS games are in 1080i and my TV is converting them to 720p. Maybe your situation is the reverse of mine?

PS... CBS really needs to do more than 2 games a week in HD... I had so many NFC games to watch on Snday Ticket, but next to no AFC games.

Tom,

I was wondering.. why do 8-1 and 8-4 show the exact same thing? Are you actually broadcasting 2 identical signals, or is my HTL-HD just picking up the same digital stream and mapping it to two places?

I was wondering if you could mention this to your superiors as well...

You know how we talked about Indiana stations tape delaying the network feeds one hour during daylight savings time? Now that you can multicast, why don't you use one transmission for the normal one hour tape delay and another transmission that is NOT delayed? That would be really cool.

Is that feasible at all? Like Letterman on at 10:35 on 8-4 and 11:35 on 8-1? What do you think? I really hate the one hour tape delay... by multicasting, more people would be happy. (I'd even put up with the "live" network feed being in 480i on 8-3... who needs a radar? :)

That would definitly be cool. The only problem is that if they want to show both the live feed and the delayed feed in hd, then the bit rate would suffer really bad. But I'd rather have the live feed in HD and the delayed feed in sd. That way, stations without a delay server could still broadcast hd (here in fw we didnt have olympics in hd becuase of no delay server) and broadcast a delayed feed of the program. I think that your idea is a really good one and i hope it catches on. If a station doesn't currently muilticast, is there more equpment to buy, or can it be done with stuff they already have? The reason i ask is that the station with no hd delay server up here also doesn't multicast.

Ryan

ps. they'll probalby not do that citing some contract BS

Just gotta add this..

I doubt stations will air their 'early feed' on a sideband, unless they can find the equipment to air local commercials on the sideband.

For some stations this would be easy, as commercials are all in a big file server. Others would have to invest thousands of dollars to make this possible.

As for routing the network feed straight to the sideband, fairly easy. Just depends on how the station has everything routed.

Bottom line. You will be able to see early feed's when the General Assembly gets it together and follows daylight saving time rules..

.... but then, we would probably obey "central" time .... unless you want the sun setting at about 11pm at the peak of summer. local news at 10.. prime starts at 7.. ohh i can see the discussion coming from miles away.

I'm running away.. fast.

Does anyone know if Brighthouse cable in Indy is working on adding ABC and FOX to their HD lineup. I was just curious if anyone has asked before.

thanks
Lanny

Originally posted by jasonblair
What kind of television are you watching it on? 1080i or 720p? My Samsung DLP is in 720p and I thought the WXIN and the other Fox games on NFL Sunday Ticket looked better than WISH and the CBS games.


I was watching on an LCD (720p) and a CRT RPTV (1080i). IMO, the NFL game and tennis coverage on CBS looked sharper than the NFL games on FOX. More comments about yesterday's games (CBS vs FOX) available at this thread.............
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=445366&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Lanny,

I ask Brighthouse all the time about ABC. When Comcast got it I started getting very upset with them. Right now I'm upset that most TWC cities and Brighthouse cities have announced ESPN HD. Indy has no idea. The customer service is worthless, and I had to tell the marketing people that other cities had it.

There is a guy Doug Kramer in their marketing who is very nice and will tell you what's happening. They are still negotiating on ABC I have never asked about FOX. As for ESPN HD, my guess is that it will happen this month sometime.

Jerry

Is anybody else frustrated with RTV no longer doing 5.1. Just a year ago they did 5.1 and it was great then half way through the football season it stopped. I emailed their Engineer and his reply was basically "I like 5.1 also?"

Does anyone have any scoop on why 5.1 ceased on 25-1 or on if they ever plan to have it again. The MNF picture is great but without 5.1 its just not the same. Maybe it wouldn't bother me if they never had 5.1 but they did and it drives me nuts that it is no longer there.

I am also annoyed at the fact that WTHR still has a lip-sync problem. I know I am not the only one with the issue. This happen all last year and also most primetime shows this year.

Anyone have any contact information?

Originally posted by Ziuck
I am also annoyed at the fact that WTHR still has a lip-sync problem. I know I am not the only one with the issue. This happen all last year and also most primetime shows this year.


Ditto. Glad it's not just my problem.

Originally posted by Ziuck
I am also annoyed at the fact that WTHR still has a lip-sync problem. I know I am not the only one with the issue. This happen all last year and also most primetime shows this year.

Anyone have any contact information?

I checked out WTHR's web site and found a contact email for engineering. I sent an email and received this prompt response:

"Thank you for your e-mail regarding audio/video “lip sync” on NBC HD programming.

This has been a very elusive problem – happens on some shows, not on others, consistently doesn’t seem to be a problem on the “Tonight” show, noticeable on some receivers, not on others. It has been very difficult to pin anything down. The only thing for certain is that there is an intermittent problem and it originates with NBC. I have all of the audio advance/video delay in the network receiver that it will allow. I am getting an HD frame synchronizer to add to this feed to give more range of correction."

After I thought about it, I dont' recall ever noticing the issue on the Tonight Show either.

I'm impressed with how fast I got a response.

Wow, you beat me. I just got the same response.

I got pretty much the same response last year (along with several others here)....

Originally posted by hoosierjerry
Lanny,

I ask Brighthouse all the time about ABC. When Comcast got it I started getting very upset with them. Right now I'm upset that most TWC cities and Brighthouse cities have announced ESPN HD. Indy has no idea. The customer service is worthless, and I had to tell the marketing people that other cities had it.

There is a guy Doug Kramer in their marketing who is very nice and will tell you what's happening. They are still negotiating on ABC I have never asked about FOX. As for ESPN HD, my guess is that it will happen this month sometime.

Jerry

Jerry, last evening I noticed that the Bright House digital lineup now indicates ESPNH for channel 760 (IIRC.....I'm at work now). When I pressed the program information button it indicated "No Information Available," but it looks like they are working on it.

UPDATE>>>>> I just checked their website www.mybrighthouse.com and it is stating that ESPN HD is now available on ch. 760.

SECOND UPDATE>>>>>> I just called Bright House to add ESPN-HD. The CSR didn't know it had been added. After checking with her supervisor, she came back and said that it had just been added as of today. I added the HDTV Choice Pak which includes INHD, INHD2, HDNet, HDNet-Movies and ESPN-HD for $6.95. When I get home from work this evening, it should be on....................

Steve

Thanks Steve.

They actually called me on Friday to say it was up. It is on the HD Tier package which I did not have before. Now all we need is ABC / Fox and the HD DVR.

Jerry

I'm not sure how many of you out there are using WTTK-DT out of Kokomo for your WB, but I have a question for those of you that are. Has anyone noticed a change in signal strength for this channel? I lost it last week from a pretty good signal (~75%) to nearly nothing (~15%), without changing any of my setup. Nothing has changed on my other stations. I e-mailed WTTV/WTTK, but haven't heard anything back.

Any ideas? I really don't want to get back up in my attic and start messing with things again.

bakem

Hi guys. I'm new to this HD stuff, having gotten Dish about 2 weeks ago. I watched the Colts on ABC against the Pats :( in HD and thought it looked great OTA, but yest. the WISH HD really didn't look that good. Does CBS use fewer HD cameras? My signal for both WRTV and WISH are ~85%. but yesterdays views often had blurred edges and blocky pixels/dithering. I actually stopped watching the HD broadcast and finished the game on my smaller, non-HD TV. I thought something was wrong with my PJ, but last night watching ESPN HD for the Sunday night game was incredible! It looked great. What's the deal?

Originally posted by drsimnal
Hi guys. I'm new to this HD stuff, having gotten Dish about 2 weeks ago. I watched the Colts on ABC against the Pats :( in HD and thought it looked great OTA, but yest. the WISH HD really didn't look that good. Does CBS use fewer HD cameras?

What's the deal?

IMO, ABC/ESPN seem to be a little more "refined" with their HD broadcasts. I've only been watching HD a couple of weeks myself, but I'm thinking the level of picture quality we get just exposes the differences in broadcasting quality on different networks that weren't apparent before. That and the fact that the networks and locals are still experimenting with their HD stuff (see the previous posts about NBC's lip sync problems).
I noticed a couple of minor drop-outs during yesterday's game that I thought were due to my OTA antenna, but I switched back to cable (which I just cancelled) and the HD broadcast there had the same thing.

Originally posted by bakem84
I'm not sure how many of you out there are using WTTK-DT out of Kokomo for your WB, but I have a question for those of you that are. Has anyone noticed a change in signal strength for this channel? I lost it last week from a pretty good signal (~75%) to nearly nothing (~15%), without changing any of my setup.

bakem

This morning I sent an email to Rick Poling at WTTV/WTTK. Here's his reply regarding your signal problem........

"WTTK-DT is running at about 25% right now due to a bad power amp. The
module went back to Harris last Wednesday. Typical turnaround is about 2
weeks.".............. He hopes the station will be back to full power sometime next week.

I also asked Rick about the upcoming channel switch for WTTV-DT, from ch. 53 to ch. 48. Here's his reply..................

"On WTTV-DT, the channel change is still "sometime next month". We got the
antenna last week, but when I looked at the box I noticed "WTTV-DT 54"
written on it. We measured it and, sure enough, they sent us a 54 antenna.
Apparently the salesman used the "cut and paste" method to generate our
order from our last order (the WTTK-DT antenna), but didn't get all the
numbers changed right. A new one, cut for 48, should arrive sometime next
week. Delivery of the Harris parts is about 10/7, so if all goes well we
should switch channels the week of the 12th."

Steve

Steve,

Do you happen to know if WTTV's power increase will coincide with the channel change, or is that coming later?

Originally posted by goldrich
This morning I sent an email to Rick Poling at WTTV/WTTK. Here's his reply regarding your signal problem........

"WTTK-DT is running at about 25% right now due to a bad power amp. The
module went back to Harris last Wednesday. Typical turnaround is about 2
weeks.".............. He hopes the station will be back to full power sometime next week.

I also asked Rick about the upcoming channel switch for WTTV-DT, from ch. 53 to ch. 48. Here's his reply..................

"On WTTV-DT, the channel change is still "sometime next month". We got the
antenna last week, but when I looked at the box I noticed "WTTV-DT 54"
written on it. We measured it and, sure enough, they sent us a 54 antenna.
Apparently the salesman used the "cut and paste" method to generate our
order from our last order (the WTTK-DT antenna), but didn't get all the
numbers changed right. A new one, cut for 48, should arrive sometime next
week. Delivery of the Harris parts is about 10/7, so if all goes well we
should switch channels the week of the 12th."

Steve

Thanks for the help, Steve. I feel much better about it now! I've been unable to get any semblance of WTTV's signal, and freaked out when WTTK disappeared.

As for WTTV, that sounds about right for a salesman. It would be nice to be able to pick that up, too. My antenna's pointed in that general direction, and if they up the power, I might be able to get that, too!

bakem

Watched Las Vegas last night... I didn't notice the lip sync being as bad as it was last week. Of course I might have been a little distracted..;)

Originally posted by lyndonr
Watched Las Vegas last night... I didn't notice the lip sync being as bad as it was last week. Of course I might have been a little distracted..;)

It was terrible for the few minutes I watched LAX last night. Probably the worst I've seen.
The Tonight Show was fine as usual though.

Can some of you regular posters on this thread help me define which markets that this thread actually covers?

Indiana DMAs:
Indianapolis
Evansville
Fort Wayne
Lafayette
South Bend
Terre Haute

This should be an "Official" thread, but I'm not sure how to classify it.

Originally posted by DirectorBoy
Steve,

Do you happen to know if WTTV's power increase will coincide with the channel change, or is that coming later?

Unfortunately, the FCC has not yet approved their request to increase the power to 870kW @ 1100 feet, so it will be coming later. According to Rick, the station's power will remain at 4kW for the time being.

Steve

Originally posted by CPanther95
Can some of you regular posters on this thread help me define which markets that this thread actually covers?

Indiana DMAs:
Indianapolis
Evansville
Fort Wayne
Lafayette
South Bend
Terre Haute

This should be an "Official" thread, but I'm not sure how to classify it.

This thread is primarily for Indianapolis, with some discussions and posts including nearby Lafayette (1 DTV station) and Terre Haute (3 DTV stations). South Bend and Fort Wayne each have their own threads. Also, I believe Evansville has a thread but I rarely see any posts or comments regarding that market. I hope this helps. Thanks.

Steve

Anyone know why WTHR still hasn't gone to DD5.1? Wonder if that will help their lipsync issue.

Originally posted by Ziuck
Anyone know why WTHR still hasn't gone to DD5.1? Wonder if that will help their lipsync issue.

It was on a few weeks ago during the HD coverage of the Olympics. I have not checked it recently.

BTW, for those who have commented recently about the missing DD5.1 at WRTV-DT, I am trying to get some information about when it might return.

Steve

I noticed the lack of 5.1 on MNF last night, too. I plan to contact WRTV to _nicely_ tell them how much I miss it.

Todd/Indy

Let me try this post again, in the right place this time... :)

I was watching WISH DT's broadcast of Big Brother tonight (a standard definition show), and solid colors (reds especially) flicker a lot. It's pretty distracting and I ended up switching to the analog cable signal which was fine. Is this something in the original broadcast or is it an issue with my equipment?

Thanks,
Jeff

I'm in fort wayne and I notice that color flahsing or rainbow effect on standard def show when watching digital. I'm not sure why it happens, but if my problem is the same as what yours is, then I think that it isn't yoru equipment. Maybe someone else in the know can expain why sd shows do this?

hey there, long lurker, newish poster. Don't have HDTV yet but soon that almost perfect set will come!!! I live by 46 @ college. will I need an outdoor ant to get good OTA HD reception? Told Brighthouse that they are a dark,dark company and go bye bye:) Now live with OTA and dvd infusions and only miss the daily show:(. Cpanther95, from my extensive lurking( a cat should appreciate that:)) the audience is mostly Indy and xurbs. Eville and Gary are generally served by other markets. (tho Eville is everywhere:))

Originally posted by CPanther95
Can some of you regular posters on this thread help me define which markets that this thread actually covers?

Indiana DMAs:
Indianapolis
Evansville
Fort Wayne
Lafayette
South Bend
Terre Haute


Definitely Indy, Lafayette, and Terre Haute... I don't know about the others.

for more on fort wayne, there is this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=269203

Holy crap! Did anyone else watch LOST in HD! It was beautiful!! Now, this is a good reason to have HD! Except, on the HD programming thread, the rest of the country got to hear it in DD5.1 and they were gushing over the sound effects! Why oh why are we in 2.0????????? Going to try and find email address for WRTV people.

Originally posted by drsimnal
Holy crap! Did anyone else watch LOST in HD! It was beautiful!! Now, this is a good reason to have HD! Except, on the HD programming thread, the rest of the country got to hear it in DD5.1 and they were gushing over the sound effects! Why oh why are we in 2.0????????? Going to try and find email address for WRTV people.

Yes, I watched LOST last evening. I, too, thought the HD PQ was very good. A great example of how wonderful HD can look!

As for the missing DD5.1, WRTV's CE, Tim Boling, says......."We are working with Tiernan in trying to solve our 5.1 dilemma. We hope to return it soon."

Thanks for the update, Tim. We'll look forward to its return.

Steve

Originally posted by RMP in KY
I realize this thread is mostly about central IN, but has anybody heard ANYTHING about the status of WEVV (CBS44) in Evansville?

A friend of mine contacted the WEVV manager a few days ago. He was told that WEVV planned to go high power before the end of the year. I believe that they have installed a ~1200 ERP transmitter with an antenna mounted on the bottom half of their current tower. I have at times received a very low level signal on channel 45 ( their DT channel ) which may or not be WEVV-DT. Not enough to achieve lock. Even if they are transmitting on their DT channel, I don't believe that it is HDTV at this time.

No HD for CSI on WISH... Whats up?

G

I was wondering the same thing with CBS-HD (8-1).

Now "without a trace" is not in HD either.... hmmm.

no HD for without a trace either... how disappointing for season premieres...

G

Originally posted by andyO
I was wondering the same thing with CBS-HD (8-1).

Now "without a trace" is not in HD either.... hmmm.

Was this just a local thing or was it non-HD everywhere?

the cbs show from 10 -11 was in hd. I was just channel surfing and saw that ti was in hd, didn't stop to watch. I'm view from the fort wayne locals.

Yeah I def. think it was a WISH issue... Maybe Tom could let us know what Happened.

G

We are working with Tiernan in trying to solve our 5.1 dilemma. We hope to return it soon."

I got the same response when I emailed them. What is Tiernan? And I hope they can fix it before Oct 2 when LOST is rebroadcast.

two days in a row on CBS-HD, oops...

Originally posted by andyO
two days in a row on CBS-HD, oops...

I've only been in HD world for a couple weeks, so I'm wondering - is this an ongoing on-off again thing with them?

Also, I noticed last night that WXIN had a ticker message stating they were going off the air at midnight for some kind of "maintenance". Tonight I noticed some sound and picture dropouts for the first time since getting my OTA situation working well.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the unwitting subject of a science experiment. :(

Originally posted by Rufhausen
Sometimes I feel like I'm the unwitting subject of a science experiment. :(


Yes you are:) :Except you are not "unwitting" Just ahead of the curve(look out for zig-zags).

though it is year 2004 (on to year 2005), guess we are still the early adopters....

I find it strange that Tom from WISH has not let us know whats up..In the past he has always let us know what is going on... I wander if it has something to do with the timeshifting equipment...

G

Yes, I was wondering the same thing,

Maybe Tom at WISH-TV is on vacation.:)

This is the third week I've been able to watch a football game on HD (and what a football game!!!). ABC had a great picture but no 5.1 sound (say they're working on it-still wonder what is Tiernan); I was very disappointed last week with the CBS/WISH feed, and they've not been showing prime time programming in HD, so maybe the game last week really wasn't HD?; but wow, FOX has got it together. The picture was great and the sound was awesome. Someone in the dome near their mike had those clapper things and it kept rapping in my R surround speaker. Several times I looked over there thinking something was pecking through my basement wall! Very cool! I know FOX didn't have HD until this year, but they've outperformed the big three easily so far in my book. :D

Thank you WISH-DT... it is HD again tonight... I enjoyed "club house"... very good story line.

I wonder why the WTTV-DT ("Jack and Bobby") is not in HD tonight?

Does anyone in the Indy area get their HD through Insight Cable? If so, how is the quality? Can they provide a HD DVR?

I deciding between Cable and DirecTV for their HD services. A DVR is a must.

Thanks.

I live in Greenfield and have insight.. I have the DVR as well... Both HD and the DVR work great. Only 2 bad things.

1. Because of the size of the DVR and the size of HD you can only record 8 -10 hours of HD. This is not a problem for me as I have a DVHS deck that I dump programs to from the DVR.

2. No WXIN FOX HD yet.

I receive all HD channels they currently offer and I have never had any issues.

G

Originally posted by mjrichar
Does anyone in the Indy area get their HD through Insight Cable? If so, how is the quality? Can they provide a HD DVR?

I deciding between Cable and DirecTV for their HD services. A DVR is a must.

Thanks.

When I got my HD tv about 3 weeks ago, I got Insight because I was hesitant about paying for an HD box with DirecTV (yet we wanted to keep directv because we have to directivo boxes) and I assumed because of how my house sits that I wouldn't get HD locals - so I thought Insight was the only option. Once I played around with my antenna, moved it to the attic, etc., I realized I could get all the HD locals without cable, so I dropped it after a week and went ahead with the HD (not the tivo $$$) upgrade thru Directv.
My thoughts...
- HD locals look about the same between Insight and OTA.
- ESPN, HDnet, etc. look a little better on Insight right now, but I understand Dtv HD quality has been reduced temporarily while some changes are being made. I don't know what it was like before.
- Insight has HD-DVR and I'll miss that. However, the interface is pretty bad if you're used to Tivo. When price goes on on HD-dTivo, I'll get one.
- I like how the HD dtv receiver integrates the OTA HDs with the program guide. It includes a tuner in case your TV doesn't have one.
- The HD programming packages for each are I think identical right now:
HDnet, HDnetMovies, ESPN-HD, Bravo, DiscoveryHD. I'm not sure what the immediate future holds for these packages. IMHO, everything in these packages aside from ESPN is just eye-candy. The locals is where I get the most use out of HD right now.
The difference with Directv is that they offer a HD HBO and HD showtime if you subscribe to either movie channel package, and I think 4 HD PPV channels. And the NFL ticket with some games in HD.
- As of last week, Insight didn't have the HD version WXIN-59, only 6,8,and 13 - but I think that is just a matter of time.

I think it just comes down to how much money you are willing to spend and whether or not you can get HD locals OTA.

I live in Bloomington and get HD through Insight. I'm not sure if the services are the same, but I have had very few problems with Insight.

I do have the DVR and it works ok. Maybe one out of 10 movies is interrupted during recording. It picks up almost immediately, but as a separate recording. So if you choose to watch that movie it will stop right in the middle (always at a bad point it seems) and you have to go start the second recording with the rest of the movie. Might be a problem with the hard drive in my unit, but I haven't contacted Insight yet.

The next thing only happened once. I was watching a movie from the DVR and started experiencing audio dropouts every 5-10 seconds, making it almost impossible to watch. I was messing around with the remote, trying to start and stop, pause the movie, whatever to fix the problem when the box stopped responding to the remote. I finally had to give up and unplug the box. Which brings me to my last complaint. If you have to unplug the box or if it loses power for only a second it takes quite a while to download program guide and menus again. I bet it was a good 20-30 minutes before I was up and running again after I unplugged in the middle of the movie. The movie did play OK after I was up and running again, though.

So mostly complaints about the Motorola DVR, but it is the box that Insight provides...

Rufhausen,

Umm I get Showtime and HBO HD from insight...

G

Originally posted by Gthompson
Rufhausen,

Umm I get Showtime and HBO HD from insight...

G

OK, my bad.

Hi, all!

I'm back from 2 weeks' vacation (as some guessed). I'm told that we lost a hard drive in our HD delay server, and we put in some long hours on a Saturday to get it all back and restored. Sorry about that, but hey - disk happens <g>.

To answer another question, we wouldn't be allowed to do both live and delayed feeds. In the earliest days of HD, before we had the delay server, we actually did the live HD feeds from CBS, and then upconverts of the delayed show whenever live HD was not available.

Aside from that causing some very odd program schedules on the HD side, CBS nearly had a cow when they figured out that we were doing it - said that, indeed, it caused major contractual problems. Apparently, under many circumstances, it would count as a second airing, which would trigger residual payments to the actors, writers, producers, etc., and also wreaked havoc with advertiser contracts.

Now at the time, with maybe 200 viewers that first 2 years, indeed - "Who cares?" Nowadays it's a much bigger deal.

Finally, someone else already correctly surmised that bandwidth would be an issue to do both live and delayed feeds. The radar is done with a -very- small scrap of data. We'd need far more to do a decent picture with true "moving" video.

BTW, the radar feed may be in some jeopardy. I'm hearing rumblings that we'll remove it rather than have to sacrifice 3 hours of children's programming to keep it. I can't conceive how to do children's programming on a channel that only supports static video with no audio, and putting an additional 3 hours of children's programming on WISH doesn't make economic sense for the sake of the radar feed.

Rested and refreshed,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

As someone who has been a manager until recently, I'm going to draw off my former peers and suggest these items as part of the "manager's thought process":

1. Compress the bajeezus out of the audio and video. Cram it into about 500kbps if you can!

2. Kids don't call and complain to the station when the picture sucks

3. We still "get credit" for children's programming, regardless of how poor the A/V quality, right?!?

4. When was my tee time, again? 11:30, or noon?

For those of you who have DirecTV and had heard about their future LIL HD plans, here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4408105#post4408105) is a post with very good info for us- especially if you weren't sure where our DMA ranked.

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Hi, all!

SNIP...

BTW, the radar feed may be in some jeopardy. I'm hearing rumblings that we'll remove it rather than have to sacrifice 3 hours of children's programming to keep it. I can't conceive how to do children's programming on a channel that only supports static video with no audio, and putting an additional 3 hours of children's programming on WISH doesn't make economic sense for the sake of the radar feed.

Rested and refreshed,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Does this mean the HD feed will be further compressed?

By the way I think its murpheys law that states something will always break when your on vacation... I had to actually come back early from mine this summer when the switch that runs our whole data backbone decided to die... Such is life.

G

Thank you so much Tom. Hope that you enjoyed your vacation. :p

I always thought it is great to have someone like you (Enginner from TV stations) to share technical insight with viewers.

Steve (Goldrich) is an asset too (for news about WXIN, WTTV related news).


- an early adopter-

WRTV did it! Last night's game was in 5.1 for the first time in about a year. That is great news. If someone from RTV is lurking great job!

Now we just need THR to come around.

Can't you just put some educational graphics superimposed on the radar picture and call that a kid's show?

Now only if we can get WTHR off their butt and fix the lipsync and 5.1 issue!

Got this email from him Friday.

"hank you for your e-mail about NBC fall shows in 5.1 Dolby surround audio.

NBC just began sending their new fall shows with 5.1 surround audio but unfortunately NBC did not advise or warn the NBC affiliates that they were going to do this – even NBC broadcast operations & transmission staff personnel were not aware of this. I discovered the 5.1 audio myself when without warning the L & R stereo channel on HD “Hawaii” had almost no dialog mix. In fact, when this occurred with the HD “Hawaii” program, NBC broadcast operations & transmission staffs continued to deny that any HD shows were or were planned to be sent with 5.1 surround audio! Consequently, we were not set up to automatically switch the 5.1 audio and metadata on air on 13.1. (the process to switch 5.1 audio and metadata and our encoder is very complex) We have designed and my staff is right now constructing and installing the equipment to automatically switch our encoder and full 5.1 surround audio and metadata on air with all programs that have it. This should be completed, tested and in service in a week or so. Until then, we will transmit HD programming with full stereo mix.

Sincerely,
Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering and Operations
WTHR NBC 13/WTHR-DT 13.1/13.2"

I noticed last night when watching LAX that at the very beginning the lip sync was way off yet it seemed to get better (or maybe I just got used to it) as the show went on.

Originally posted by Ziuck
Now only if we can get WTHR off their butt and fix the lipsync and 5.1 issue!

I can't watch WTHR's prime-time HD programming anymore. At best, the audio is always slightly off from the video. At worst, it's WAY off. Either way, it just is not pleasant to watch their programming in HD. I really hope they realize that they have a problem and that they're working towards fixing it!

Jeff

Had to miss LOST in HD tonight as puppy kindergarten started. Are they still broadcasting in 5.1? I hope they've gotten it fixed! I recorded LOST on my SD dvr. This show is really exciting so far!

Tonight's episode was as spooky/chilling as anything I've ever seen on TV. I'm totally hooked! Then again, I was hooked on Push, Nevada a couple of years ago and then ABC pulled the plug. I don't trust them to keep a good show on the air... hopefully it is doing well in the ratings!

Originally posted by drsimnal
Had to miss LOST in HD tonight as puppy kindergarten started. Are they still broadcasting in 5.1? I hope they've gotten it fixed! I recorded LOST on my SD dvr. This show is really exciting so far!

Yes it was in 5.1! The sound was great.

Originally posted by Ziuck
Yes it was in 5.1! The sound was great.

In case anyone missed the announcement, they are re-broadcasting I think both episodes Saturday night. I missed the first one so I'm looking forward to that.

I wish I had my HD dvr working!!! I love this show. WISH seems to be back and working great as well! Hopefully the Colts will look as great tomorrow. :p

Yesterday, Rick Poling at WTTV sent this email to DTV viewers on his list......
............................................................ ................................

All WTTV-DT viewers:

I am pleased to announce that WTTV-DT will be changing channels from 53 to
48 the week of October 11. At this point I expect that we will go off the
air sometime on the 12th and be back on the air for the evening of the 14th,
weather permitting and all goes well.

We will NOT be increasing power at this time, so if you did not get us
before, it is likely that you will still not get us. However, since we are
going down in channel, there may be a few people who will get us a little
better now than before.

Most viewers will need to do a new channel scan on their receiver, sometime
after we go back on the air, to receive us. Those who have receivers which
download their guide information from DirecTV may have to do a channel scan
anyway to get the signal, and for a period of time the guide information
from DirecTV may be incorrect until they catch up with the channel change.

I will be busy doing this work that week, but feel free to email me with any
questions. I will reply as soon as I can. Also, I will let this group know
when we are back on the air on channel 48.

Note that this will not affect WTTK-DT at all. If you currently watch WB
programming on WTTK-DT, your signal will not be affected at all.

While I have your attention, also note that WTTV and WTTK, both analog and
digital, will begin signing off on Sunday nights (really Monday morning)
from 2AM to 5AM, so if you're up at those hours, you won't see a signal from
us, and this will be considered normal. This is a programming decision;
however, we will use the time for transmitter maintenance.

Rick Poling
RF Supervisor
WTTK-TV 29
WTTK-DT 54
WTTV-TV WB 4
WTTV-DT 53
WXIN-TV FOX 59
WXIN-DT 45

I didn't realize until today that CBS only broadcasts 2-3 games in HD. What did they pick this week? N.E. v. Buffalo; Denver v. Tampa Bay and JETS v. Miami ! No wonder the picture has sucked on my bigscreen. It's barely watchable that blown up. Why they didn't pick the Colts versus a previously undefeated team and a division match up, I don't know. Is there any way in advance we can find out which games will be in HD? This is ridiculous. I certainly don't want to invite people over to show them the crappy picture I've gotten the last two games on WISH. Is the issue the lack of HD production trucks?

Originally posted by drsimnal
I didn't realize until today that CBS only broadcasts 2-3 games in HD. What did they pick this week? N.E. v. Buffalo; Denver v. Tampa Bay and JETS v. Miami ! No wonder the picture has sucked on my bigscreen. It's barely watchable that blown up. Why they didn't pick the Colts versus a previously undefeated team and a division match up, I don't know. Is there any way in advance we can find out which games will be in HD? This is ridiculous. I certainly don't want to invite people over to show them the crappy picture I've gotten the last two games on WISH. Is the issue the lack of HD production trucks?

http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

I think this page is updated to keep the HD games current up to about two weeks out. Looks like u should have a party next week.

I experienced a few dropouts during the re-broadcast of Lost on Saturday night and once during Desperate Housewives last night. However, it never happened during commercials or local news updates.
I'm wondering if this was just the feed from ABC. My signal strength was solid the whole time.
Did anyone else experience the same thing?

I'm up in Auburn and I watched both of those shows, but I didn't have any dropouts.

I think this page is updated to keep the HD games current up to about two weeks out.

Yeah, that is what really sucks about the game not being HD yesterday. If CBS is only deciding 2 weeks in advance what games to show in HD, it is hard to figure out why a game for the division with a 3-0 team against the Colts wouldn't be chosen. Especially since the SEC game was in HD in Georgia the day before.

I experienced a few dropouts during the re-broadcast of Lost on Saturday night and once during Desperate Housewives last night. However, it never happened during commercials or local news updates.
I'm wondering if this was just the feed from ABC. My signal strength was solid the whole time.
Did anyone else experience the same thing?

Yep, and I'm in Fishers, too. Actually, I had OTA dropouts on Lost, didn't watch all of Housewives. It happened during the second hour, as I had to catch up to live on my Tivo first. So many dropouts, in fact, that I too checked my signal. It showed Good the whole time on my Hughes HTL-HD.

Originally posted by Rufhausen
I experienced a few dropouts during the re-broadcast of Lost on Saturday night and once during Desperate Housewives last night. However, it never happened during commercials or local news updates.
I'm wondering if this was just the feed from ABC. My signal strength was solid the whole time.
Did anyone else experience the same thing?


I also had drop out during the rebroacast of LOST. I sound blips the first hour and then the second hour had quit a bit of video loss.

I experienced a few dropouts during the re-broadcast of Lost on Saturday night and once during Desperate Housewives last night. However, it never happened during commercials or local news updates.

So, I'm not alone? I thought my antenna was tripping. It happened to me multiple times during LOST and once or twice during Housewives. Which I liked, BTW. The Mouse is obviously being a little daring, since they're already at the bottom. ;)

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I'm up in Auburn and I watched both of those shows, but I didn't have any dropouts.

A co-worker who uses Insight Cable receiving the WRTV feed had the same issue, so maybe it was just a WRTV thing.

I didn't notice any problems with MNF last night.

Anyone here know if Insight has any plans to put Fox HD in their lineup? (WXIN). Fox has made one heck of a commitment to HD for the NFL and I hate to still watch football in SD....plus 24 in Jan in HD......if anyone has any info that woudl be awesome.

I saw a commercial last night on WRTV-DT that they were changing from 25.1 to 6.1 Monday (I'm assuming that's today, 10/11). Any insight into why this is? We just got guide data from D* changed from 6.1 to 25.1, and now it's switching back! I thought they were going to keep 25.1 after the changeover, as well.

bakem

In the latest instructions from the FCC, they say that you MUST use your analog channel as your virtual channel's major channel number.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by bakem84
I saw a commercial last night on WRTV-DT that they were changing from 25.1 to 6.1 Monday (I'm assuming that's today, 10/11). Any insight into why this is? We just got guide data from D* changed from 6.1 to 25.1, and now it's switching back! I thought they were going to keep 25.1 after the changeover, as well.

bakem

This channel change is the result of a recent FCC ruling. A local TV engineer recently commented that this ruling would affect the digital channel display from WRTV-DT. Apparently for the present time, the remapped channel numbers must correspond to the analog channel. And, yes, the last comment I read mentioned that WRTV-DT will most likely remain on ch. 25 and will not revert back to ch. 6 whenever analog transmissions cease. At that time TV channels could be reduced to channels 7 - 51.

Also, a quick reminder that WTTV-DT 53 will most likely be off the air starting tomorrow, Oct. 12, until sometime on Thursday, Oct 14 as the station switches from ch. 53 to ch. 48. I will plan to post any information I receive from Rick Poling regarding this change.

Steve

Originally posted by bakem84
We just got guide data from D* changed from 6.1 to 25.1, and now it's switching back!Last time I emailed the firm that supplies the schedule to DirecTV and they updated the schedule to reflect 25.1. I'll try to figure out who it was again and email them... I think some of the details might be listed earlier in this thread.

Update: Here is the posting I think... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3777412#post3777412

I'll email them again and see what happens.

Thanks for all the help guys. I had been watching the FCC rulings for a while, but lost track of it, and had no idea about the new rules. Makes sense, though, to reduce some of the confusion.

Sounds like I'll be giving Zap2It an e-mail, too. A little prodding can't hurt!

bakem

Rick Poling reports that WTTV-DT 53 is now off the air as the switch from ch. 53 to ch. 48 continues. He hopes to have the station back on the air by sometime tomorrow (Wednesday).

Steve

Update from Rick Poling........................

All WTTV-DT viewers:

WTTV-DT is back on the air as of about 5:15 PM today. It is now on channel
48.

For most of you, this means you will need to do a new channel scan to find
WTTV-DT on its new channel, then your receiver will store our new channel
number in its internal station list. For some of you, you can simply punch
in "48" on your remote and your receiver will find the channel, note that it
is 4-1, and store it in its internal list.

For those of you that have Hughes or Samsung receivers (and maybe some
others) that download their channel list from DirecTV, I understand it takes
them about a week to update the channel list they send down over the
satellite. You should be able to find us, though, by doing a DTV channel
scan. I believe you'll be able to watch the station, but depending on your
receiver the guide information won't be quite right.

I am interested in any reception reports that note a significant change in
your reception, either good or bad. I really don't expect much change, but
as I noted earlier, going down to a lower channel at the same power might
help a few people by virtue of the lower channel only.

Note that WTTV-DT may be off the air for short periods of time tomorrow for
further testing, measurements, and alignments.

Thanks for your interest in WTTV-DT.

Rick Poling
RF Supervisor
WTTK 29
WTTK-DT 54
WTTV WB 4
WTTV-DT 48
WXIN FOX 59
WXIN-DT 45

............................................................ ...................................
Per my own viewing observations during the past 35 minutes, I've seen some severe dropouts which I virtually never saw when the station was on ch. 53. It appears to be worse at my location.

Steve

For those of you who might be wondering why "LOST" wasn't in HD last night:

Dear Viewer,

Thank you for your email concerning the HD program LOST. We were unable
to air this program in HD tonight due to the presidential debate.
Currently we delay all prime time programming from ABC by one hour. We
have equipment that can delay HD for one hour only. ABC actually sent
the program LOST at 7 PM. We had to air the debate from 8 PM until 10
PM causing a three hour delay of LOST. This situation will not repeat
often.

Thank you for watching RTV6-HD

Tim Boling
WRTV Chief Engineer

FYI: My friend at insight called me today and said they now carry FoxHD on their digital package. Chan 763.

I can confirm WXIN in HD on Insight in Bloomington. Channel 767 here. It was good to see the baseball game in HD last night, even if the Cubs weren't playing.