Looks like WTHR may have fixed their lip sync issue. I did not notice any delay last night during Crossing Jordan. Hopefully it will continue tonight.

Now if they get DD working!

Originally posted by Ziuck
Looks like WTHR may have fixed their lip sync issue. I did not notice any delay last night during Crossing Jordan. Hopefully it will continue tonight.

Now if they get DD working!

I thought it was funny that the "lip sync" issue was actually mentioned in the "Let It Out" column in The Star last week:

"Since The Star and WTHR are newsgathering partners, see what you can find out about why the sound is two seconds behind the lips on WTHR' s HD-TV for the last two months."

ER was good on Thursday night as well -- no synch issues at all.

*fingers crossed*...

Jeff

I would like to ask a hardware question about this STB and was wondering where would be the best place to post it. It is about reception in the Indianapolis area and Channel 8-1 in particular.

Thanks
Tom Smalley

Originally posted by coolray
I would like to ask a hardware question about this STB and was wondering where would be the best place to post it. It is about reception in the Indianapolis area and Channel 8-1 in particular.

Thanks
Tom Smalley
This is a good place to start. Especially for questions related to WISH. One of their engineers frequents this forum and is always helpful and responsive.

Ken

I am on my 2nd Hughes HIRD-E8 STB, as the first one just started acting "flakey" so I sent it back in and they sent me a refurbished one which I have had for about 3 or 4 months. Now this one is starting to act up on me and I am trying to determine if the box is the problem or what. I live outside of Muncie at Selma and have been watching High Def for about a year now OTA and I am also a Direct TV subscriber as well. The problem right now is that when I go to check the signal strength of WISH 8-1, it gives me the Sat 101 data on transponder 11, instead of the digital signal strength bar of 8-1. It appears to me that the box is not switching over to the OTA portion and is "locked up" or whatever on the satellite side. I have heard that the Hughes box is subject to over heating and just takes a crap on you. I am also getting this problem on 23-1, but 6-1 and 13-1 and 59-1 seem to work fine.

I think I need to get another box or a replacement, but I am getting tired of having to replace and or exchange boxes. I bought the box at Circuit City and this is one time I am glad I bought the extended warranty. It will replace the box for any reason up until sometime in 2006, a 3 year deal, but I want to make sure there was not a signal problem from the station before I started bitching again.
Any help or ideas would be much appreceiated.

Thanks guys
Tom Smalley

Originally posted by coolray
I am on my 2nd Hughes HIRD-E8 STB, as the first one just started acting "flakey" so I sent it back in and they sent me a refurbished one which I have had for about 3 or 4 months. <<<snip>>>I have heard that the Hughes box is subject to over heating and just takes a crap on you.
Since it is possibly an over-heating issue, I suppose you have the unit in the open, with all ventilation areas open. Yes?

Ken

Yes, it is setting on top of my cabinet that houses the rest of my equipment and there in nothing on top of it. The unit is very hot to the touch and both of them were that way. Once again tonight I could not watch 8-1 as there was no signal strength and as we were watching "Lost" it kept droping out and breaking up and then it would come back and we are getting a 100 on the signal strength for that station. As an aside I was also wondering why the channels on the satelite are so crappy. I get a strength reading on all 3 birds in the 85 to 90 range, but it sure doesn't seem like what a "digital picture" should look like. It seems to me that when a program is broadcast in HD, the digital picture is "fuzzy". Does anyone else get this.

The picture on HD Net and ESPN-HD and some other things is usually superb, but this other deal is making me think that my problem is still the STB itself.

It is now Sunday morning and 8-1 is coming in with a signal strength of 44, but the STB has been off all night. We shall see if when it heats up again I lose channel 8 again, if so then I would say it has to be the STB.

coolray,
I had the problem with Lost last night its not you its WRTV-HD. If WISH or any other HD channel isnt showing a true HD picture on there channel it is because its upconverted or sent along in standard HD which is 480p like fox did for years. WISH-DT when the show is in 1080i will look as good a hdnet. Have you had a chance to check out any of the PBS-DT (WFYI 20-1 or WTIU 30.1 some of there shows are really nice in HD.

Brad

Thanks for the input Brad. I am not able to pull in 20-1 or 30-1 here at my location. I am going to assume that it is because the signal is low power and will not reach the Muncie-Selma area. I realize that this type of programming is in its infancy and that we who do get are lucky to have it now instead of waiting a few years, but it makes it so hard to figure out whether the problems that you encounter are with your stuff or from the station. Right now 59-1 is super sharp and the signal strength is only 51 and I can see 8-1 right now but it does drop out occasionally with the signal at 44. 6-1 is coming in at 93 and 13-1 is 100. I didn't check 23-1, but I can usually watch it but it does tend to come and go sometimes. I have my antennea in my attic on a rotor, so it is very easy to fine tune my signal strength, but I am still not sure about my STB

Thanks for all the help and I hope to get 29-1 when the power increases and I also am waiting for 59-1 to increase their power.

Thanks guys
Tom Smalley

I have been having an issue pulling in 8-1 lately. I do not know if it is my side or not.

I have been getting a signal of about 75% for the last 8-9 months and over the last week it has been coming and going. I had no signal for most of last week. Sunday morning I had 70% and then Sunday evening not even enough to lock on. My attenna is up in my attic and does not move. I do not understand what is going on. No other channels are affected.

Ziuck,
I'm also using a small attic mounted antenna and WISH has been fine. On the order of 95% or so. I'm something like 20 miles from the towers on the far west side.

Does anyone else have frequent audio dropout problems with WRTV. Tonight's programming including Monday Night Football was all but unwatchable because of continual resetting of the dolby sound. I have a Sony receiver and it takes several seconds to restart the audio after each dropout. The video signal was perfect. I live 6 miles from the transmitter, is it because I am so close. I use a Metrostar 2000 installed in the attic.

This has been a problem frequently with WRTV since I got my STB several months ago.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

Originally posted by davidboone
Does anyone else have frequent audio dropout problems with WRTV. Tonight's programming including Monday Night Football was all but unwatchable because of continual resetting of the dolby sound. I have a Sony receiver and it takes several seconds to restart the audio after each dropout. The video signal was perfect. I live 6 miles from the transmitter, is it because I am so close. I use a Metrostar 2000 installed in the attic.

This has been a problem frequently with WRTV since I got my STB several months ago.

I recorded the 2nd episode of Lost which was rebroadcast on Saturday night on WRTV Digital, and it was horrible -- dropouts and sound problems every few seconds for most of the hour.

Last night on Desperate Housewives, right at the very end in the most important part of the episode, it was like someone in the studio started flipping channels -- it went from the show, to static, to a previously-played commercial, and then back to static with just the audio track running. I flipped over the analog cable signal to watch the rest.

Very, very annoying. What year is this again?

Jeff

RTV OTA Directv guide listings.

Per a previous posting, I have also emailed Zap2it about getting the listings associated with 6-1 now but I have not heard back from them and don't see the change. Does anyone know how long it generally takes for the channel listings to be corrected? Or do you have any info from zap2it? I'm getting a bit tired of seeing Regular Schedule on the Guide when I try to record shows on 6-1. I almost didn't get the Purdue game recorded this weekend because it wasn't in the guide. Any info would be appreciated.

A reminder to those having trouble getting WISH-HD, especially those in somewhat more outlying areas: WISH's digital signal is broadcast on channel 9, so antennas have to be able to pull in VHF signals (channels 7-13), as well as UHF (channels 14-69), which is where all the other digital stations are, at least for now. The picture quality the antenna provides you on WISH-8 analog is a good predictor of how well you'll receive WISH digital on channel 9.

As far as I can tell from the transmitter reading and the off-air TV in my office and at home, all is well with our signal.

We're less than 2 months away from celebrating the 6 year anniversary of WISH-HD!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,
Your signal is fine here in Plainfield and I'm using a small RS double bowtie UHF only antenna.

To Tom Weber

I posted to the list back in March and had listed my signal strength readings for:
6-1 = 100
8-1 = 70-93
13-1 = 100
23-1 = 100
59-1 = 55-70

As of about 5 minutes ago the list and strength was:
6-1 = 100
8-1 = 44
13-1 = 100
23-1 = nothing
59-1 = 65

I have been having trouble with 23-1 and 8-1 for the last couple of weeks and something has changed somewhere. I live about 6 miles due east of Muncie in a town called Selma and my antenna is on a rotor and is inside my attic and I have a full range of 360 turning capacity. The GPS elevation here at my home for the attic is 1,012 feet. It appears that a few other folks are experienced a sudden problem with 8-1 and I sure wish I knew where and what the problem was, because right now I can see 8-1, but tomorrow I may not have any signal at all and I hope someone can tell me they think it may be. Obviously the antenna is working properly since 6-1 and 13-1 and 59-1 are still about the same as they have been since my beginning of HDTV. I am still not sure that the problem is not in my STB, but it is frustrating to say the least. By the way my antenna is and outdoor VHF-UHF.

Tom,
Your iffy reception on DT-9 might be a combination of things.You're on the fringe at 53mi and your antenna should be in the open 30 ft above ground,not in the attic.Notice all the 25-35ft towers around that little town?

Also,you didn't state that you are using a preamp or not.Should use one if 49 doesn't totally swamp everything.It would definitely help.

And,it's a possibility that the Hughes box is going on the blink.You could try out a USDTV box from Wal-mart and see if that helps.Liberal return policy.

Greg B

To Greg B.

Thanks for the input, but I have not had a problem pulling in 8-1 in the last 15 months until recently. Prior to this latest problem 8-1 was always in the 70-90 signal strength range, so, in my opinion the inside antenna, which is about 27 feet off of the ground, is working just fine and is not the problem. I am almost positive it is the box now, because last night Leno on 13-1 was coming in at 100 and when I switched over to 8-1, just to see what the signal was, there was Leno. I am just going to have them send me a different version of the same Hughes box or have them get me a new one of a different brand.

In regards to using a pre-amp, what would you recommend and have you had any feedback on what seems to be the better performing STB's for the Indianapolis area. Thanks for all your help on this.

P.S. 25-35 foot OUTSIDE towers, Huh, I never made the connection.

Thanks again
Tom

Adam,
You might check with Ovation. They do custom work. Can't swear they'll be cheap.

Audio dropouts on Channel 6-1, 6-2 works fine. Lost is unwatchable. All my channels come in at 95 signal strength. I tried a 6db filter today. It drops some of the stations below 95, but 6 stays at 95. This is a consisten problem for me with WRTV-DT.

Maybe I should try a set top antenna instead of the attic one I am using. Any suggestions, is too much signal a problem that can cause audio dropouts?

Thanks for any help.

Dave

I think it's an RTV problem at the source -- same problems here. No other stations are having difficulties.

I'm glad Daylight Saving Time ends this Sunday. Attempting to watch some of the network HD programming from local stations using time-shifting equipment can be detrimental to your health and well-being. WRTV-DT's HD recorder/player unit was really messed up tonight.

On another note, I am now receiving WTTV-DT 48 (36 miles) just fine. Last week I discovered that adding a RS attenuator to the antenna input line and slightly reducing the signal level corrected my dropout situation. Apparently my close proximity to the Indy antenna farm (3-5 miles), along with my antenna setup, was causing an overload or intermod situation with my STB (LG). Has anyone else noticed any reception changes since WTTV-DT switched from ch. 53 to 48?

Steve

Originally posted by goldrich
I'm glad Daylight Saving Time ends this Sunday. Attempting to watch some of the network HD programming from local stations using time-shifting equipment can be detrimental to your health and well-being. WRTV-DT's HD recorder/player unit was really messed up tonight.

...

Steve

and those of use up here in Fort Wayne will gain back NBC in HD.

Originally posted by goldrich
I'm glad Daylight Saving Time ends this Sunday. Attempting to watch some of the network HD programming from local stations using time-shifting equipment can be detrimental to your health and well-being. WRTV-DT's HD recorder/player unit was really messed up tonight.

On another note, I am now receiving WTTV-DT 48 (36 miles) just fine. Last week I discovered that adding a RS attenuator to the antenna input line and slightly reducing the signal level corrected my dropout situation. Apparently my close proximity to the Indy antenna farm (3-5 miles), along with my antenna setup, was causing an overload or intermod situation with my STB (LG). Has anyone else noticed any reception changes since WTTV-DT switched from ch. 53 to 48?

Steve

I tried a Radio Shack variable attenuator a couple weeks ago and it didn't improve the dropout situation. So do I understand that this may be related to the time delay equipment?

Thanks,

Dave

Coolray,

I'm from up North of Muncie, and I'm using a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. I did a lot of reading through the other forums here, and several people recommended these because of their very low noise with very good gain. I haven't tried any others, but without it, I can't pull in much of anything from Indy. With it, my lowest signal strengths are in the mid to upper 80's.

Originally posted by goldrich
I'm glad Daylight Saving Time ends this Sunday. Attempting to watch some of the network HD programming from local stations using time-shifting equipment can be detrimental to your health and well-being. WRTV-DT's HD recorder/player unit was really messed up tonight.

On another note, I am now receiving WTTV-DT 48 (36 miles) just fine. Last week I discovered that adding a RS attenuator to the antenna input line and slightly reducing the signal level corrected my dropout situation. Apparently my close proximity to the Indy antenna farm (3-5 miles), along with my antenna setup, was causing an overload or intermod situation with my STB (LG). Has anyone else noticed any reception changes since WTTV-DT switched from ch. 53 to 48?

Steve

Hi Steve;
Wow, you needed an attenuator for a station 36 miles away putting out 4,000 watts? Wait until they go to 870,000 watts. That should be interesting.
Seriously, my signal improved dramtically with the change to 48. I'm about the same distance away you are (Bloomington, IN), but I had terrible luck with 53. 48 is almost perfect, although I did have a problem with pixelation when it rained hard during the IU football game. The improvement has been dramatic for me, and I'm getting brownie points at home when Everwood comes on in HD.
Can't wait for the 870K allocation, because then I'll bet I can point my antenna towards Indy and get 48 as well.

Originally posted by nathill
Hi Steve;
Wow, you needed an attenuator for a station 36 miles away putting out 4,000 watts? Wait until they go to 870,000 watts.

I'm glad your reception of WTTV-DT is now better on ch. 48.

I chatted with Rick Poling about my dropout situation after the station switched to ch. 48 and how the variable attenuator eliminated the problem with my LG LST-3100A. Meanwhile, my Hauppauge WinTV-D (PC tuner) was receiving the ch. 48 signal from the same antenna setup without using the attenuator and was producing a perfect picture with no dropouts. In part, here's how Rick summarized the situation...............................


"As you know sensitivity varies greatly with receivers. Something that also
varies is what it takes to overload them, i.e. some have more headroom than
others. Another thing that varies is something called selectivity, or the
ability of a receiver to reject off-channel signals. There are actually a
whole suite of receiver parameters that make it tough to put TV stations on
channels very close together; the FCC calls them "taboo" channels. But
wouldn't you know it they allow DTV stations on "taboo" channels because DTV
receivers aren't supposed to have issues with "taboo" channels like analog
TV receivers do. In the local case, the "taboo" channels to 48 would be 45
and 46.

In your case, you have high power transmitters nearby on 8, 9, 13, 20, 21,
25, 40, 45, 46, and 59. For the sake of argument we'll guess that all but
45 and 46 are not the problem, as they are too far away in frequency and
most any receiver should have enough selectivity to reject them. Your local
problems will be with 45 and 46 when trying to receive 48.

A receiver with excellent selectivity will be able to reject 45 and 46 and
allow you full gain of the RF section to pick up 48. A receiver with
typical selectivity will allow some of the 45 and 46 signals into the RF
section of the receiver and reduce its sensitivity by pulling up the AGC.
The 45 and 46 signals are later tuned out by the IF filters, but the damage
to the 48 signal is done by the gain reduction caused by the AGC."


Apparently my LG receiver has some issues with the strong signals in my location. Luckily, the attenuator is allowing me to bypass this particular issue. Hopefully when WTTV-DT increases its power to 870kW the signal will be strong enough to override and/or reject these other signals. Meanwhile, under most conditions, I know the LG tuner is capable of receiving very weak DTV signals when I'm DXing distant stations. In fact, with the help of some fairly strong tropospheric conditions the morning before WTTV-DT went on the air on ch. 48, I was able to receive WPXI-DT 48, Pittsburgh, PA @ 325 miles. Like real estate, reception is related to location, location, location.

Steve

Originally posted by davidboone
I tried a Radio Shack variable attenuator a couple weeks ago and it didn't improve the dropout situation. So do I understand that this may be related to the time delay equipment?

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

Yes, I'm sure the problem you've described above was due to the time delay equipment, in particular at WRTV-DT. You mentioned that 6-2 was fine, so this would indicate that the air signal to your receiver was fine. Also, if you've watched any Monday Night Football on WRTV-DT, it should have been just fine since it is broadcast "live" directly from the network. Starting Sunday, with the end of DST, the local stations will no longer have to time-shift network shows. As far as I know, WXIN-DT is the only local station that does not have to do this because FOX offers several feeds at various times, one of which coincides with the correct broadcast times for Indy.

Steve

<<< I chatted with Rick Poling about my dropout situation after the station switched to ch. 48 and how the variable attenuator eliminated the problem with my LG LST-3100A. Meanwhile, my Hauppauge WinTV-D (PC tuner) was receiving the ch. 48 signal from the same antenna setup without using the attenuator and was producing a perfect picture with no dropouts. In part, here's how Rick summarized the situation...............................>>>

Is rick a good guy or what? I've EMailed him several times, usually to sing the blues about all of the problems I'm having with power line interference, and he's never been too busy to discuss the situation and offer his ideas. I might add that with his help I'm in digital heaven when I consider how far away from Indy I am.
I am VERY impressed with the HD signal from both of his stations, and am especially partial to the baseball and football always presented in beautiful HD and 5.1 sound on Fox. Being the last network to go to HD has been a good idea, if you ask me.

Nat

ps. Pittsburgh? You system is certainly set up correctly.

Originally posted by goldrich
Dave,

Yes, I'm sure the problem you've described above was due to the time delay equipment, in particular at WRTV-DT. You mentioned that 6-2 was fine, so this would indicate that the air signal to your receiver was fine. Also, if you've watched any Monday Night Football on WRTV-DT, it should have been just fine since it is broadcast "live" directly from the network. Starting Sunday, with the end of DST, the local stations will no longer have to time-shift network shows. As far as I know, WXIN-DT is the only local station that does not have to do this because FOX offers several feeds at various times, one of which coincides with the correct broadcast times for Indy.

Steve

Steve, thanks for the info. It makes sence now. The problem was beginning to drive me crazy. But now I see the logic. Yes, 6-2 and and "live" programming has been fine. Anyone know if WRTV-DT plans to upgrade their recording equipment or change the method they use for time delay so this won't be a problem in the fall?

Dave

To goldrich

Hi again Steve

Would you mind posting the present power signal strength in watts for the thread on the following stations that you mentioned in Post 1282 above. Also since you are very knowledgeable about this stuff, any info on when and to what level any of the stations will increase power on 8, 9, 13, 20, 21,
25, 40, 45, 46, and 59.

I know this is a lot to ask and somewhere in these threads is some individual info on this stuff, but it would be nice to have a current update on as many as possible.

Thank you for all of your input on this forum, people like you make it easy for people like me to keep abreast of what is going on. Again thanks for all you and several others on here have done for all of us.
Tom Smalley

Originally posted by coolray
To goldrich

Hi again Steve

Would you mind posting the present power signal strength in watts for the thread on the following stations that you mentioned in Post 1282 above. Also since you are very knowledgeable about this stuff, any info on when and to what level any of the stations will increase power on 8, 9, 13, 20, 21,
25, 40, 45, 46, and 59.

I know this is a lot to ask and somewhere in these threads is some individual info on this stuff, but it would be nice to have a current update on as many as possible.

Thank you for all of your input on this forum, people like you make it easy for people like me to keep abreast of what is going on. Again thanks for all you and several others on here have done for all of us.
Tom Smalley

Hi Tom;
Don't mean to butt in here, but you can find all of the information you want at the following site:
http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/in/tv_information.asp?m=ind
It will take a little digging on your part, but it's all there. (Look under FCC data on the corresponding analog channel, not the digital channel. eg. For channel 4, look under 4, not 48 or 53).
It is my understanding that it is not possible to know exactly when the stations will increase power. Lots of variables on that one, and I guess FCC gives the final approval. And, I understand that it takes a LOT less power for a VHS signal to cover the same geographical area as a UHF signal.

Nat

Hi Nat

Thank you for the info on that site and I downloaded the pertinent info and will go over it and see if I have any questions and if so I will post them here for someone to answer. Again thanks for the info.

Tom Smalley

P S for the 2nd consecutive day I have been getting 8-1 in at 93 on a 100 scale and 23-1 is now coming in at 100. I have a new STB box coming as the one they sent yesterday did not work, i.e. satellite audio, but no video.

Talk later

Anyone else watching Monsters inc on 6-1 and getting audio drop outs every couple seconds. The sound keeps turning on and off, very annoying. My signal is rock solid at 95-100.

Just wanted to see if anyone else is having the same problem?

OK, WRTV knew they had a problem several days, maybe weeks ago. The situation with LOST was certainly cause for alarm. So why do they keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. It's like they don't want anyone to watch their HD signal at all, and they are doing all they can to make sure that happens. Why not just put on a test pattern that says "We're currently having difficulties with our HD feeds. Please be patient. When we have resolved the problem we will resume normal programming." Would that be so DIFFICULT?"

And I realize it's probably due to their HD storage/delay situation. NO EXCUSE ANYMORE!!!

I have a question for you guys. Is it possible that wind could affect reception? Just today, my reception is complete crap. Digital is either no signal or pixel city, and analog goes from clear to the colors separating horizontally, picture going form sharp to blurry (like ghosting/multipath), and the sound getting staticy. It is just today that this started, and it is still windy as I write this. I guess I'll know after the weather changes, but this has been buggin' me all day long.

Thanks,
Ryan

Edit: I should note that it does not affect all channels the same. The stronger channels 24 abc and 40 pbs can hold a steady digital signal and the analog doesn't mess up as much. but 19 nbc and 31 cbs are affected the most.

Originally posted by davidboone
Steve, thanks for the info. It makes sence now. The problem was beginning to drive me crazy. But now I see the logic. Yes, 6-2 and and "live" programming has been fine. Anyone know if WRTV-DT plans to upgrade their recording equipment or change the method they use for time delay so this won't be a problem in the fall?

Dave

OK, DST is over and channel 6-1 is still full of audio dropouts, whats the deal? I also get the occasional dropout on 8-1 every couple of minutes. Iratating but watchable. Happening right now during the Colts game.

Dave

Regarding the dropouts on WRTV (for me, they involve audio AND video on both of my tuners, not just audio): I vividly remember them occurring constantly last year over Thanksgiving weekend while I was trying to watch an HD movie on ABC with my family. They had never seen HD before, and left unimpressed thanks to WRTV. Technical glitches are understandable, but to allow them to continue for well over an entire year is absolutely inexcusable. And now it sounds like I'm in for a real treat when I get around to watching last week's episode of Lost.

Anyway, point being, Thanksgiving is obviously in the portion of the year that is not time-shifted, which supports Dave's observation that the time change is not having any effect on the issue.

Come on, WRTV... what gives?

test

Dave and DirectorBoy, I watched the Colts game and I didn't have any problems at all. During the past hour or so, since I saw your post Dave, I've been switching back and forth between WRTV-DT and WISH-DT and I haven't seen any problems on either station. I've even checked WISH-DT via Bright House cable (Bright House-Carmel still doesn't offer WRTV-DT) and it appears to be fine, too. The NFL game in HD on WISH-DT looks very good, while the upconverted (SD) golf tournament on WRTV-DT looks pretty ugly, but that's the normal look of an upconverted network program like this from ABC, at least on my 47" screen. This is not related to any issues at WRTV-DT. HD programming this evening from ABC via WRTV-DT should be fine.

Last evening I was attempting to watch Desperate Housewives on WRTV-DT and it was really messed up again, but that was one of the last time-shifted programs from the station now that DST has passed. I'll do some more checking this evening, but so far this afternoon and early evening everything appears fine with this station at my location.

For viewers in the Lafayette/Kokomo area who are watching the Patriots/Steelers game via WLFI-DT 11 (18-1), Lafayette, a sister station to WISH and master controlled from the WISH studio, it looks very good this evening. Unlike WISH-DT, WLFI-DT does not offer DD 5.1 audio, but the PQ of this HD game on WLFI-DT is very good right now. I am noticing an occasional "burp" in the audio and video from WLFI-DT, but I'm 40 miles away so this could be a factor on my end. I'm not sure.

While I'm yacking, is it just me, or do the NFL games on Fox and WXIN-DT seem to be looking better every week? My speculation is that the engineers at Fox have been tweaking their equipment since the HD broadcasts started in September.

Steve

Originally posted by goldrich
Dave and DirectorBoy, I watched the Colts game and I didn't have any problems at all. During the past hour or so, since I saw your post Dave, I've been switching back and forth between WRTV-DT and WISH-DT and I haven't seen any problems on either station. I've even checked WISH-DT via Bright House cable (Bright House-Carmel still doesn't offer WRTV-DT) and it appears to be fine, too. The NFL game in HD on WISH-DT looks very good, while the upconverted (SD) golf tournament on WRTV-DT looks pretty ugly, but that's the normal look of an upconverted network program like this from ABC, at least on my 47" screen. This is not related to any issues at WRTV-DT. HD programming this evening from ABC via WRTV-DT should be fine.

Last evening I was attempting to watch Desperate Housewives on WRTV-DT and it was really messed up again, but that was one of the last time-shifted programs from the station now that DST has passed. I'll do some more checking this evening, but so far this afternoon and early evening everything appears fine with this station at my location.

For viewers in the Lafayette/Kokomo area who are watching the Patriots/Steelers game via WLFI-DT 11 (18-1), Lafayette, a sister station to WISH and master controlled from the WISH studio, it looks very good this evening. Unlike WISH-DT, WLFI-DT does not offer DD 5.1 audio, but the PQ of this HD game on WLFI-DT is very good right now. I am noticing an occasional "burp" in the audio and video from WLFI-DT, but I'm 40 miles away so this could be a factor on my end. I'm not sure.

While I'm yacking, is it just me, or do the NFL games on Fox and WXIN-DT seem to be looking better every week? My speculation is that the engineers at Fox have been tweaking their equipment since the HD broadcasts started in September.

Steve

I'll do more work checking if I'm receiving too much signal. Perhaps I'll try another attenuator. Its odd, I was getting the audio drop outs on WRTV during the ice skating before the golf, but not during the golf. I'm watching the Steelers game now and still getting the occasional audio drop on 8-1.

Thanks,

Dave

Well, perhaps I jumped the gun since I haven't actually watched WRTV since last night. But on that subject, everyone always refers to audio dropouts. What I get is rapid brief video dropouts to black, combined with loud, rapid-fire audio pops followed by another second or two of silence before regular audio is restored.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone else here describe the problem that way, but I always experience this at the same time that others on here are reporting "audio dropouts". Mine are definitely much more than simple audio dropouts. Am I alone here? I would blame my tuner if I didn't have two separate systems behaving identically. The loud pops are almost deafening... I'm always afraid they'll damage a speaker.

Originally posted by DirectorBoy
Well, perhaps I jumped the gun since I haven't actually watched WRTV since last night. But on that subject, everyone always refers to audio dropouts. What I get is rapid brief video dropouts to black, combined with loud, rapid-fire audio pops followed by another second or two of silence before regular audio is restored.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone else here describe the problem that way, but I always experience this at the same time that others on here are reporting "audio dropouts". Mine are definitely much more than simple audio dropouts. Am I alone here? I would blame my tuner if I didn't have two separate systems behaving identically. The loud pops are almost deafening... I'm always afraid they'll damage a speaker.

My video is always perfect. (Other than during Lost a couple weeks ago when the video was disrupted also) What I am calling an audio dropout is the surround sound going completely silent. Its like the system has to reaquire the signal before the surround receiver can restart audio.

David

I don't believe I'm having the video dropouts, but your description of the audio problems is right on the mark - "loud, rapid-fire audio pops". They are very loud and, imho, very dangerous to audio equipment. Their random nature precludes any protective measures. But on a more optimistic note, just finished watching Desperate Housewives and there was not one single problem. None. WRTV - Overnight Sensation.

WRTV was fine for me last night as well. No problems at all. But now the lip synch problems are back on WTHR.... :\

Okay, is anyone else hearing WRTV tonight? It's worse than ever. I'm not getting video dropouts, but the audio pops are literally nonstop. And between the pops, the audio stutters. The broadcast is completely unwatchable. Do they even care? Has anyone been in contact with WRTV lately to find out what their plan is to correct this? I have a feeling there is no plan... after all, it's been TWO YEARS since I first heard these pops and nothing has changed. Absolutely pathetic.

Originally posted by IndyJeff
WRTV was fine for me last night as well. No problems at all. But now the lip synch problems are back on WTHR.... :\

I did some more testing this afternoon/evening. I put a splitter in the line to drop the antenna signal. Got an across the board drop drom 95 to 93 on reported signal quality, no change in the audio problem on 6-1 in Dolby 2/0, no problems on 6-2.

I disconnected my attic Metrostar 2000 and connected a VHF/UHF settop antenna. My HT is in the basement facing west, the TV antenna farm is southwest. WRTV signal dropped into the mid 80s for signal quality, same result on 6-1 and 6-2.

Reconnected the attic antenna, changed out the digital coaxial cable for a different one, no change. Tried an analog connection, no change.

The issue must be with the STB. I have a Sylvania, got on close out at Sears. Either it doesn't work, and if that is the case, why do all of the other stations work fine, or it is receiving too much signal and that is causing the audio drops.

I'm going to try a variable attenuator tomorrow to see if I can drop the signal enough to get the problem to correct itself.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Is the broadcast power of 6-1 versus 6-2 different. What else might be different between these sub-channels that could help troubleshoot?

Thanks,

Dave

I just sent a rather lengthy letter to WRTV's own Call6 hotline explaining the problem and listing themselves as the business involved. I will post replies from them as they arrive.


Please give us a concise explanation of your problem
Many local High Definition TV enthusiast have spoken about the serious problems you have with the audio on your HD channel. This has gone on for far too long with no improvement. We all hoped that the time change would make a difference. it didn't. 10/31 was fine. Tonight it's unwatchable. You are potentially destroying speaker systems. Pleas see
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=186022&goto=newpost
for all the unkind remarks directed your way


What have you done to solve the problem
I'm contacting you now as a final, last resort, other than boycotting your HD feed entirely

What help would you like from Call 6 to reach a resolution
Fix the problem. Yours is the only station in Indianapolis with this problem. I have to believe that your engineers occasionally communicate with the competition. They need to now because you have a situation that can best be described as pathetic.

Originally posted by DirectorBoy
Okay, is anyone else hearing WRTV tonight? It's worse than ever. I'm not getting video dropouts, but the audio pops are literally nonstop. And between the pops, the audio stutters. The broadcast is completely unwatchable. Do they even care? Has anyone been in contact with WRTV lately to find out what their plan is to correct this? I have a feeling there is no plan... after all, it's been TWO YEARS since I first heard these pops and nothing has changed. Absolutely pathetic.

I don't get the audio pops, my receiver just unlocks and I get silence until the sytem relocks and syncs.

I agree, unwatchable for me from 4PM on.

So is it my equipment or my STB sensitivity and proximity to the transmitters. Most are within 6 miles.

Dave

The problem tonight cleared up as soon as I posted earlier. Go figure. MNF looks (and sounds) great.

Although different tuners are reacting differently to the issue, the root cause is obviously a failure in the processing of ABC's DTV signal at WRTV. Earlier tonight, when the problem was occurring continuously, everything cleared up the second master control switched to local spots, then deteriorated again immediately upon taking network at the end of the break. So, proof positive of what we already knew.

Interesting approach in using their own Call 6 franchise to report our discontent. I'm looking forward to seeing if/how they respond. I hate that the harsh tone has become necessary, but the old rule of attracting bees with honey just isn't working here. I sent them a very polite email about this last year and never received a response... which I could live with if there were at least a resolution.

<<< Although different tuners are reacting differently to the issue, the root cause is obviously a failure in the processing of ABC's DTV signal at WRTV. Earlier tonight, when the problem was occurring continuously, everything cleared up the second master control switched to local spots, then deteriorated again immediately upon taking network at the end of the break. So, proof positive of what we already knew. >>>

My 25-1 audio signal last night was deplorable at certain times. I agree that this is a pathetic situation. None of my other digital signals are this bad, and I get several of 'em.

Hint to other readers: Don't waste much time searching for a solution on your end for channel 25 (6). There's simply something very wrong with their audio broadcast signal. And it happens just every now and then, so we tend to assume it's our problem. It's not. It's their problem.

My experience tells me that if your picture is rock solid, any problems with sound are on the transmitting end. That may not be correct, but facts never get in the way of my forming an opinion!

Nat

Originally posted by DirectorBoy
The problem tonight cleared up as soon as I posted earlier. Go figure. MNF looks (and sounds) great.



My audio probelms continued into MNF. I even went back downstairs at 10 PM to check again. Audio dropouts still occurring.

Dave

Unfortunately, Dave, it sounds like you might have reception problems on top of WRTV's transmission problems. I just realized you posted that WRTV was unwatchable for you from 4pm on yesterday, but the problems most of us talk about are exclusive to ABC's DTV signal, which doesn't begin until 8pm (I don't believe they pass a network DTV signal for World News Tonight at 6:30).

So, in other words, if you are having problems when you see a 4:3 picture stretched out to fit your 16:9 screen, it's probably your problem. If it occurs only when you see HD or a pillarboxed 4:3 picture with black bars on the sides (usually during primetime), it's the WRTV problem we've all been complaining about.

Originally posted by DirectorBoy
Unfortunately, Dave, it sounds like you might have reception problems on top of WRTV's transmission problems. I just realized you posted that WRTV was unwatchable for you from 4pm on yesterday, but the problems most of us talk about are exclusive to ABC's DTV signal, which doesn't begin until 8pm (I don't believe they pass a network DTV signal for World News Tonight at 6:30).

So, in other words, if you are having problems when you see a 4:3 picture stretched out to fit your 16:9 screen, it's probably your problem. If it occurs only when you see HD or a pillarboxed 4:3 picture with black bars on the sides (usually during primetime), it's the WRTV problem we've all been complaining about.

That's interesting. So, unless I am having two simultaneous problems and my audio receiver is masking the loud pops in the DTV signal by unlocking, I am not having that problem. I will continue to pursue possible overload issues. I am going to try a variable attenuator today to see if lowering the input signal can resolve all/some of my issues.

What really bothers me is that 6-1 has the problem, 6-2 never has the problem? Why?

Dave

What really bothers me is that 6-1 has the problem, 6-2 never has the problem? Why?


And what a perfect time to ask the silly question I've been thinking about for awhile.

Are sub-channels a different signal than the main channel, or could you actually put the HDTV signal on -2 if you wanted?

They're part of the same signal. Back before Fox was HD, WXIN-DT broadcast WXIN on 59.1 in 480p, and WTTV on 59.2 in HD. I'd give anything to get WTTV back on 59.2, even though it'd at least require a down-convert to 480p. I'll never pick up WTTV-DT at their current power level.

Originally posted by IndyJeff
WRTV was fine for me last night as well. No problems at all. But now the lip synch problems are back on WTHR.... :\

I watched Las Vegas last night and had no lip sync issue.

Anyone notice WISH HD was still on a 1 hour delay last night?

I noticed lip sync problems on Las Vagas HD as well. My signal comes from Wise in FT Wayne so it might have been a network problem as Jay leno didnt' seem to have those problems.

I have watched every Monday Night Football game this season and have not had a single loud pop. I might have an occasional dropout (2-3 times per game) when the signal quality fluctuates, but I have not had any loud pops in the audio. I receive WRTV-DT OTA and am using a Zenith HD-SAT520.

When I got home yesterday afternoon I did not notice any audio problems with 6-1. I went ahead and installed a variable attenuator anyway. I dialed it up until my weakest station, 23-1, dropped off. I am 16.7 miles from the 23.1 transmitter. I brought the signal back up til 23-1 was at about 65-70 signal quality. 6-1, 8-1, 13-1 and 59-1 still all show 95 signal quality. I am 6-7 miles from these transmitters. I'd estimate that I dropped the signal about 10dB, or half of the 20dB variable gain.

I didn't have much time to watch last night, but the few times I did there were no audio dropouts.

I will see how it works over time.

Dave

Dave;
I love those little variable attenuators. I'd say you've used yours to perfection. I find I can usually dial in the right amount of attenuation, then replace it with a fixed attenuator.
I'll bet you continue to have audio problems on 6-1 from time to time. I think that they transmit serious audio problems every once in a great while.
Nat

Originally posted by nathill
Dave;
I love those little variable attenuators. I'd say you've used yours to perfection. I find I can usually dial in the right amount of attenuation, then replace it with a fixed attenuator.
I'll bet you continue to have audio problems on 6-1 from time to time. I think that they transmit serious audio problems every once in a great while.
Nat

I can probably live once in a great while, my problems were almost continuous. My audio receiver would unlock from the signal evry couple of seconds.

We'll see if this improves the situation. I'll post back.

Dave

Does anyone in here have an HD TiVo? Mine won't get ANYTHING on 25-1 or 6-1. I have checked with three others and they are experiencing the same problems. Any idea's? Sorry if this is a repeat question.

Originally posted by davidboone
I can probably live once in a great while, my problems were almost continuous. My audio receiver would unlock from the signal evry couple of seconds.

We'll see if this improves the situation. I'll post back.

Dave

Improvement but not sucess. Even at the maximum attenuation I'm still getting audio drops. Is there a way to attenuate the exact freq of WRTV?

Dave

Originally posted by davidboone
Improvement but not sucess. Even at the maximum attenuation I'm still getting audio drops. Is there a way to attenuate the exact freq of WRTV?

Dave

I watched Lost tonight, and there were no problems with the audio or the video for the whole show.

And now West Wing on WTHR seems to be good as well with no lip-synch problem.

*Fingers crossed*.... again :)

Jeff

Didn't get a chance to watch Lost in HD tonight as my wife will absolutely not put up with the audio problems. This and other must watch ABC shows are now always in analog SD.

Originally posted by chadly25
Does anyone in here have an HD TiVo? Mine won't get ANYTHING on 25-1 or 6-1. I have checked with three others and they are experiencing the same problems. Any idea's? Sorry if this is a repeat question.

Per a new ruling by the FCC, your receiver will now indicate WRTV-DT as 6-1 and not 25-1. From what I've read, some receivers need to be reset (unplug it a few minutes and then plug it back in) and/or do a new channel scan. This should purge the old number and restore the new number. One or both of these actions should restore the correct information to your unit. Let us know if this helps. Thanks.

Steve

Even with 20 db of attenuation, I'm still having audio problems on WRTV. I am becoming convinced that my receiver is being overloaded by the powerful nearby transmitters. I'm investigating a bandstop filter at that freq to attenuate 30db of the signal.

I continued to have audio drops last night in both the before 8 and after 8 PM time frames. Although with 20 dB of attenuation, the problem appeared to be deminished.

Any local source for this type of filter, or is the internet my best choice?

Dave

WISH-TV news is reporting that Governor-elect Mitch Daniels, along with some help from Tuesday's shakeup of the legislature, is planning to put Indiana on Daylight Saving Time, hopefully by April. Many of you have mentioned how much you'd like to see DST in Indiana, and the removal of time-shifting equipment at the local stations. Just be patient. We'll see what happens by April.

Steve

That's My Man Mitch

But which way will he move us?
My guess is to the right... ;)

Nah.. If we go Central the Indiana Broadcasters Assn. will say keep your news at 11pm, and the time shifting equipment will stay. There's no way that the IBA, and local station will give up an HOUR of pre-prime time local programming. It's the ONE hour of television that carries the highest ratings of the day (on many stations, certain days of the week).

In Evansville/Central Time it's:
5:00 Local News
5:30 Nightly News
6:00 Local News
6:30 Pre-Prime Local
7:00 Prime Time until 10:00
10:00 Local News

I don't see local stations giving up 1/2 hour of local news product. For some stations this would mean the creation of 1 hour of news during the 4:00 hour. Now, you could take that second half hour at 6:30 and use it for local news, but then where does your Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, Access Hollywood, etc. go? News ratings are about half of what WOF/Jeopardy are pulling in now that Ken Jennings is a freekin' millionaire. That's cash that WTHR probably wouldn't want to give up. And I believe other stations would follow suit.

It's just my opinion, and I reserve the right to be wrong. :)

Hopefully we'll go on Eastern since three of the four states that surround us are on eastern. If they wanted to, they could leave the little corner up by chicago on central since alot of people commute and wouldn't want to cross time zone lines. They are different than the rest of the state half the year already, why it would make a difference during the other half, I don't know. That might be the best solution for all in the state.

We are in the Eastern Time Zone. That is why now, with no Daylight Savings Time in effect, we are the same time as New York and Detroit, rather than St. Louis and Chicago.

I wonder if it is one thing to decide whether your state observes DST, but another thing entirely if you want to try to change the local time zone.

True, I didn't think of it like that.

However, there is this quote from this morning's Star: "Calling uniformity the most important factor, Daniels said he has not decided whether the state should observe Eastern or Central time."

Central time will not just mean the continuation of time shifting, it will mean the beginning of year-round time shifting. :(

Originally posted by Gabro Jay
Central time will not just mean the continuation of time shifting, it will mean the beginning of year-round time shifting. :(
No worries, Gabro Jay, that's not true... the Eastern and Central time zones use the exact same satellite feeds for prime time programming. In general, nobody time-shifts at the station level. The only reason it happens here is because we don't follow suit when the rest of the nation changes their clocks in the spring and fall, so if our stations didn't time-shift, the programming schedules would shift back an hour during the summer to match the Evansville schedules bradyusi mentioned earlier.

So, without local time-shifting, that hour of pre-prime programming from 7 to 8 (which is called "prime access") would disappear in April, only to reappear in October. Speaking of which, in response to bradyusi's post, would the IBA have that kind of power to overrule network? I would think that would be unprecedented. Generally speaking, network demands you air what they send you accordingly with your time zone.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but while Indiana can pretty much decide on its own to observe DST, actually switching time zones is a much bigger issue that the federal government (I can't remember what bureau... transportation, maybe?) would have to approve.

Director Boy is right about who can decide what - Indiana can decisde DST/no DST, but I believe that it's either Commerce or Transportation that decides where the time zone line gets drawn.

I find it hard to beleive that if we went to Chicago time we'd have year-round time-shifting. There are just too many logistical problems to do it permanently. Special Reports, other special things, are a nightmare as it is - but we cope with them to try to keep programs on at the same time year-round.

Personally, it seems like we are tied more to Chicago than to New York, economically, so that would make more sense. (And, having grown up in Chicago, I like the concept of 10:00 News!) I understand, though, that my employer may feel differently <g>.

Tom

DST. Oh Boy!! I really want to change all my clocks, oven, microwave, vcr's, tv's, computers, pager, programable thermostat, alarms,etc. twice a year. Being the westernmost state in the eastern zone, we're effectively on DST all year round.

I'll just have to deal with changing my few clocks in the house (even less now that many that are computerized included settings for DST) if it means that we are more attractive to outsiders that want to do business with us. If the rest of the nation does it, even though it is a pain, may be the best thing for the state. Anyways, I just hope that either way we go, I don't really care which, will have our programs not be time shifted. Here in Fort Wayne, there have been problems on occasion with the stations that do time shift, and we are left in the cold by the stations that don't have that equipment. Hopefully what the others have said about the networks mandating the time programs are shown according to the time zone is true and will hold up.

PS. what do you have to do when the power goes out? Reset your clocks! Around here, that happens at least twice a year, if not more.

Originally posted by davidboone
Even with 20 db of attenuation, I'm still having audio problems on WRTV. I am becoming convinced that my receiver is being overloaded by the powerful nearby transmitters.

Dave

Dave, I hope your reception of WRTV-DT is much better this week. I've watched the station the past two evenings and I haven't noticed any problems, audio or video, with their broadcasts.

Steve

Earlier today I received this update from Rick Poling............. Steve


<Notice to all viewers of WTTV-DT and WTTK-DT:

We have made a couple of minor changes to the signal of WTTV-DT and WTTK-DT
that you may be interested in. If you are unable to receive these stations,
you may disregard the rest of this message, but stay tuned for further
announcements about power increases.

Last week, for internal technical reasons, we added channels 4-2 and 29-2.
You will find that these are standard definition, stereo audio only versions
of the analog signals on channel 4 and 29. Many of you will have no use for
these signals, I know. Some of you may find these feeds useful, especially
if you are using your DTV receiver with a 4:3 TV set. You may find that you
prefer the whole screen filled (well, as much as possible) rather than the
letterbox display you would normally get on 4-1 or 29-1. Note that most all
WB programming is now produced in 1080i, 16x9 format, and the network is
letterboxing the HD signal when they downconvert it for the NTSC (analog)
world, so the SD feed (and the analog feed) will always be letterboxed from
now on, unless WB changes their mind.

Also, beginning officially last Sunday night, we are broadcasting all WB
programming in Dolby 5.1 audio (when available). Be advised that once again
we are struggling with new equipment, so if you hear any problems with the
audio during WB network time, let us know and we'll look into it.

Thanks for watching WTTV-DT and WTTK-DT.

Rick Poling
RF Supervisor
WTTK-TV 29
WTTK-DT 54
WTTV-TV WB 4
WTTV-DT 48
WXIN-TV FOX 59
WXIN-DT 45

I live in Carmel near 146th and Hazel Dell.

Can anyone in this vicinity receive either WTTV-DT or WTTK-DT? If so, what antenna setup allows you to do so?

Thanks.
Andy

Hi Andy:

Up in Noblesville, no good either. I have never recived WTTV here OTA, but with Locals on DirecTV, can record and view with TiVo.Was told if I would direct an antenna to the North (not the South) I should be able to get WTTV-DT by Rick Poling. Up till now there has been no reason since they had no HD. Did try it with an indoor antenna in the past and no luck. My outside antenna was installed free by VOOM and works good for everything I watch from Indianapolis. If we could get anything it would be from the North, not the South. Give it a try. With both DirecTV & Voom HD I have about everything covered I watch and record with TiVo. Last I heard we won't see a Pacer game in HD from Channel 4 (but can with TNTHD, ESPNHD) for years, but maybe that will change. May see it from Fox Sports before Channel 4. Anyone have any new info on this?

P.S. Welcome & Good Luck!

Originally posted by aspons
I live in Carmel near 146th and Hazel Dell.

Can anyone in this vicinity receive either WTTV-DT or WTTK-DT? If so, what antenna setup allows you to do so?

Thanks.
Andy

I'm near Keystone at the Crossing, and it cannot be received here.

Jeff

Originally posted by aspons
I live in Carmel near 146th and Hazel Dell.

Can anyone in this vicinity receive either WTTV-DT or WTTK-DT? If so, what antenna setup allows you to do so?

Thanks.
Andy

I live at 141st and Cumberland (just off SR37), and I'm able to get WTTK-DT 29 (actual 54) out of Kokomo. I've got a ChannelMaster 3016 mounted in my attic (2 story), not amplified, connected with a dedicated line to my HD-SAT520 box. I get a pretty good signal (at the edge between normal/good on my signal meter), and experience very few dropouts. I can't remember which direction my antenna is pointed, but if I remember correctly, it's toward the general direction of Kokomo.

I've never received even a blip on WTTV-DT, though.


bakem

Not a blip on either TTV or TTK at 131st and Springmill. Waiting hopefully for power increases. I get a fuzzy picture on TTK non-DT.

Dave

Update: I finally got enough attenuation on my receiver to see a change in the WRTV signal quality. At about 24 dB I start to get a drop in quality from 95 downward. My max attenuation, 6 dB fixed, 20 dB variable, is 26 dB. I can get the quality to drop to about 82. This doesn't change anything about the audio drop outs that I experience.

When I was first working on the system yesterday afternoon at 4:20 I wasn't experiencing any problems at all. I'm pretty sure that right at 5:00 they started and continued until I went to bed at 11:15. No amount of attenuation stopped the drop outs. So I don't think its caused by overload.

I also added a 750 Mhz low pass filter yesterday to limit the possibility that I'm getting interference from the cell tower between my home and the antenna farm. No change.

I talked to a friend at work who lives in Danville. He gets the same type of continuous audio drops. His is a Hytachi receiver, mine is one of the Sears Sylvania models.

I think I'm down to that its either the age/generation of my equipment or a WRTV problem or both. I may have to get one of the USDTV receivers from Walmart to check my equipment.

Dave

David;
I can sympathize with your audio problem.
I have a problem with my SIR-T351 and channel 59's digital signal that is specific for the model and the TV station. Audio is delayed and drops out more than it should. Engineer at 59 reports that it is a known issue. Who's to blame? Station or set top box maker? I guess I'm inclined to blame the set top box.
I guess expecting all 18 digital signals to be translated correctly by every make of set top box is apparently too much to ask.
I have not noticed as many problems with 25's audio lately, so I guess I'm forced to eat my earlier words and admit that that the audio problems you are having may not be 100% on their end.
Good luck. It's frustrating, I know.
Nat

Since Wednesday evening, I am experiencing a new reception issue with WRTV-DT, but with only one of my three DTV receivers. My newest receiver, the LG LST-3100A, is now freezing and completely locking up while watching WRTV-DT. First, the video freezes while the audio continues for several more minutes, and then it drops out, too. When this happens, NOTHING, none of the unit's functions, will work on the receiver, including the remote, until I unplug the unit and let it reset.

Meanwhile, my older receivers, RCA DTC-100 and Hauppauge WinTV-D (PC tuner), are receiving the station just fine. The LG receiver appears to be working just fine with all other stations, including weak WTTV-DT and WTTK-DT. Is anyone else in the area experiencing any related situation like this with WRTV-DT? Maybe it's a problem with my LG unit. Thanks.

Regarding previous posts about receiving WTTV-DT and/or WTTK-DT, here is a link to a small picture of my antenna setup (near 106th and Westfield Blvd.) I can receive WTTV-DT anytime (36 miles), but my reception of WTTK-DT (22 miles) varies a lot, depending on weather and tropospheric conditions. WTTK-DT's shorter tower really hurts line-of-sight reception.

http://www.geocities.com/goldrich2@sbcglobal.net/recentdtvreception.html

Steve

Yesterday, while watching HDNet, I saw a promo for this, and this was posted on another thread here at AVS Forum.......

More NCAA BBALL in HD

HDNet
Nov. 27th 1:00 PM ET The Wooden Tradition
Illinois vs. Gonzaga
followed by
Purdue vs. Cincinnatti

Since WTTV is also carrying this tournament, I wonder if the station has an option of picking up the HD feed for WTTV-DT?

Steve

I live on the westside of Indy near IRP. I used to be able to get WTTV-HD on channel 53, but now that it is on 48, I get NO signal at all. Why is that? Did they change their transmitter location? What do I need to do to get it?

I was thinking there was a post in here that mentioned somehting about them getting new equipment or using a new tower which would make the signal better for some and possibly bad for others. I am thinking us West side folk will be SOL unless we can do some tweaking.

I'm within 2 miles of IRP and have never been able to get 53.

Originally posted by jasonblair
I live on the westside of Indy near IRP. I used to be able to get WTTV-HD on channel 53, but now that it is on 48, I get NO signal at all. Why is that? Did they change their transmitter location? What do I need to do to get it?

There were a number of posts back in October relating to WTTV-DT's channel change. Review pages 62-65, and especially check out Rick Poling's comments near the top of page 65. This info may help you out.

Steve

Well, I bit the bullet yesterday and got a new HD STB. I replaced my Sylvania with and LG 3510A. So far, all problems are solved. No audio dropouts last night on 6-1 or 8-1. My location, so close to the transmitters, must just be too much for the Sylvania.

Now I just have to box up the Sylvania and sell it on Ebay.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Dave

Just a note that our local radar is down, has been for a couple of days. It's not on 8-3, it's not on it's Web page, and not available to the meteorologists.

It's in its Bloomington repair home, with luck should be back in a couple more days - providing the weather is OK for the tower climbers to haul it back up!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Just a note that our local radar is down, has been for a couple of days. It's not on 8-3, it's not on it's Web page, and not available to the meteorologists.

It's in its Bloomington repair home, with luck should be back in a couple more days - providing the weather is OK for the tower climbers to haul it back up!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Wow, Tom, what a great new weather radar! I've been watching 8-3 in the studio this morning as you continue to tweak the new VIPIR radar. The detailed closeups are quite amazing. And thanks to Angela Buchman and Steve Bray for coming to our studio (WGLD 104.5) this morning to talk about its debut.

Steve

In chatting with Steve Hicks this week, he tells me that DD 5.1 will be back on WTHR-DT as soon as some new switching equipment is installed. We heard 5.1 during the Olympics coverage earlier this year, but apparently that was just a temporary setup. Steve says the lack of DD 5.1 " is due to our current master control switcher only having two analog channels (audio) and one for SAP. We do not have an efficient way or an easy way to pass or switch between 5.1 digital for HD and analog, which our local commercials are." He says the new equipment has arrived, but now it must be installed. He's hoping that it will all be in operation by sometime in January or early February.

Steve

I'm near Eagle Creek Airpark and cannot seem to get 48 (WTTV-DT) at all. I'm using a DirecTV HD DVR and a Silver Sensor in the attic. I seem to get everything else digital OK, but 48 shows a signal in the teens with very brief peaks near 45 or so, but won't lock on.

I tried two Silver sensors using a splitter and playing with different orientations, with no success. I even tried just one (no splitter) laying up on top of the chimney (I have an outside cable run) and that didn't help a bit.

Is anyone on the west side of Indy getting 48 with any indoor or outdoor antenna? DirecTV's local sat feed looks so awful I almost can't stand to watch a Pacers game.

I reviewed the info on pp. 62-65 of this thread. Is the "taboo channel" interference of ch. 45 and/or 46 a known issue when tuning 48 with this STB? Would an amp or attenuator help? Any specific advice would be greatly appreciated.

TIA,
Todd/Indy

Todd,

I would speculate that your problem in receiving WTTV-DT 48 is simply a lack of signal. Given WTTV-DT's current low-power signal of just 4kW, unless you are fairly close to their tower in Trafalgar, like Johnson County, I would say that most viewers, at minimum, will need a very good and high gain outdoor antenna, with it mounted as high as possible. The best part of ch. 48's current setup is that their transmitting antenna is located close to 1000 feet up channel 4's tower, which is over 1200 feet high. This allows for fairly good line-of-sight reception in the area, but between the low power and the fairly high UHF frequency, anything between their transmitting antenna and your receiving antenna, like trees, roof, etc. can really reduce the signal level.

Your close proximity to the other local towers could cause some "taboo channel" interference with your STB. That seems to be an issue with one of my STB's but not with my other STB.

Meanwhile, the only way I can get a strong, reliable signal from WTTV-DT at my house near Carmel (36 miles) is with two, horizontally stacked UHF yagi antennas @ 30 feet above ground level, precisely aimed and with a CM 7775 preamp on the line. I've experimented with other outside antennas. The CM 4221 (4-bay) didn't work very well, even at 30 ft. with the preamp. The CM 4228 (8-bay) worked better with the preamp, and I could receive ch. 48 most of the time. A few months ago I bought the XG91, the long yagi advertised here at AVS Forum from Antennas Direct, and it seems to work quite well when it's up at least 25 feet and with the preamp attached.

I live just 3-6 miles from most of the Indy towers. When I got my first STB 3 years ago I tried getting those stations with various antennas mounted in the attic, but I never could seem to find the same "sweet spot" for all the stations. I would get a couple of them to come in fine and then in the process of finding the right spot for those stations I'd mess up the others. Reception from the attic can be done but it can be very tricky.

There's my 2 cents. Hopefully some others closer to your neighborhood will chime in with suggestions.

Steve

Anybody else having problems receiving the WB on Comcast HDTV cable? It is often very pixelated, audio going in and out, etc. I have noticed this for the past day or so. All other HD channels seem fine. I don't have an OTA antenna, though, to see if their air broadcast has similar problems. Can anyone confirm? Thanks.

My post from earlier today got my curiosity up again about receiving ch. 48 at my location with a smaller antenna and no preamp. The testing I did with other antennas, as mentioned in my previous post, was performed a few months ago when WTTV-DT was still on ch. 53. At the moment it appears that the signal is better on ch. 48.

At 5 p.m., I have the CM 4221 (4-bay) antenna at the top of a 15-foot mast on the backside of my house, facing south, and I'm getting a good stable signal. I have approximately 75 feet of coaxial cable from the antenna to the receiver and I'm not using any preamp or any kind of amplification. Both of my STB's are receiving ch. 48 just fine. My older RCA DTC-100 receiver indicates the signal strength at 58, based on a scale of 0-100, and where the receiver needs a solid reading of at least 32 to decode and lock in on a station. So 58 is a very good and acceptable signal. If I split the signal and operate both STB's from this same antenna at the same time, the 58 reading drops to 42, but that is still enough signal for the receiver.

The test with this simple setup will be to see what happens tonight and tomorrow if and when it starts raining. Rain, wind and atmospheric changes might play havoc with this setup. I'll keep an eye on it and report back.

One thing for sure, I would never be able to receive and watch a virtually perfect picture from an analog UHF TV station 36 miles away that was transmitting with only 4000 watts!!

Steve

Thanks for your insight, Steve. I have a great shot to the south from above my sat dish with the chimney directly to the north if I want to try an outdoor antenna. This is about 25ft above ground level. Which antenna (CM?) would you recommend I try first, and would it be available locally? It would be very convenient if I could somehow attach it to the sat dish mast, since I already have a line of quad RG-6 up there.

I'll be interested to hear more about your testing with wind/rain. If you can get 48 from Carmel, I'm hopeful I can get it here in Eagle Creek. When is 48 going to up their Tx power?

Thanks again,
Todd/Indy

Originally posted by tbhausen
Thanks for your insight, Steve. I have a great shot to the south from above my sat dish with the chimney directly to the north if I want to try an outdoor antenna. This is about 25ft above ground level. Which antenna (CM?) would you recommend I try first, and would it be available locally? It would be very convenient if I could somehow attach it to the sat dish mast, since I already have a line of quad RG-6 up there.

I'll be interested to hear more about your testing with wind/rain. If you can get 48 from Carmel, I'm hopeful I can get it here in Eagle Creek. When is 48 going to up their Tx power?

Thanks again,
Todd/Indy

I tend to agree with most experts at this website that when it comes to antennas "bigger is better." Between the two CM models I've mentioned I would tend to recommend the 4228 8-bay model. It does tend to be more directional than the 4-bay and I've found that the 4228 seems to do a better job of dealing with mulitpath problems, if it exists in your location.

The forecast right now calls for clearing conditions this afternoon so I'm planning to trade out the 4221 for the 4228 later today and see how it compares. My guess is that the 4228 will add another 5-10 points to my current signal strength reading on the DTC-100. We'll see! BTW, my reception of ch. 48 with the 4221 setup was just fine this morning between 7 and 8 with the rainy/foggy weather in the area.

The only place in Indy where I've found the 4221 and 4228 in stock is King Electronics, 1711 Southeastern Av. Phone number 639-1484. Sometimes an item can be out of stock there so it's a good idea to call ahead.

Steve

After reviewing these graphs showing actual antenna comparisons, http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html , we should add, "your actual results may vary." These tests show the Channel Master 4228 having more gain for channel 48 than the Channel Master 4221, but my little test this afternoon didn't prove this. When I tried the 4228 in the same location as the 4221 it didn't produce enough signal for the receiver to decode and lock in WTTV-DT 48, whereas the 4221 in the same location was able to provide a good, stable signal on ch. 48. Further testing between these two antennas in various locations and at various heights to receive ch. 48 could once again give a number of various results.

Since WIPX-DT 27's (PAX) tower is located within a few hundred yards of the WTTV-DT tower, it was interesting that the 4228 delivered a much stronger signal for ch. 27 than the 4221. One antenna is better for one channel while another antenna is better for a different channel, but only at one given location and height.

Also, occasionally "bigger is better" does not apply......... Antenna type and antenna placement is very much trial and error.

Steve

<<< Antenna type and antenna placement is very much trial and error >>>

I have spent hours, if not days, moving antennas and trying to figure out where to permanently place an antenna at my home and at my son's home for the best digital signal reception.
I can tell everybody this much. Nothing makes sense. I found one spot superior to all others at my home, and it makes no sense at all. It's right under a power line (please don't tell anybody) and only 15 off of the ground.
My son gets the best reception looking right through a tree. (I think both of us are dealing with power line issues).
I can't make this stuff up.
I am more and more convinced that the ONLY answer is testing, testing, testing. Don't think, gather data, and read everybody's opinion (mine included). TEST!

Nat

My experiece exactly. Science only goes so far.

Tried to find a CM 4221 or 4228 locally--no luck. Anyone heard of Stallion Satellite in Martinsville? Skywalker recommended I try there, but I didn't get a call back from them. Which of the two should I go with (plenty of room in my attic for either)?

Todd/Indy

Originally posted by tbhausen
Tried to find a CM 4221 or 4228 locally--no luck. Anyone heard of Stallion Satellite in Martinsville? Skywalker recommended I try there, but I didn't get a call back from them. Which of the two should I go with (plenty of room in my attic for either)?

Todd/Indy

Todd,

I have a 4228 sitting on a shelf. I purchased it to try to pull in WRTV here in Terre Haute...no luck. It is in perfect condition. My parents live in Mooresville, so I am sure I could work out some sort of exchange.

Jeff

Todd,

From your previous posts, I was under the impression you were planning to install a 4221 or 4228 outdoors. Your last post mentioned your attic. I believe most antenna experts would tell you that the roof will reduce your signal level anywhere from at least 20 to 40 percent, or sometimes even more. With WTTV-DT's weak signal you really can't afford to lose any more, but it would still be worth a try.

I see you have an offer to try Jeff's 4228. I have the 4221 and the 4228 as extra antennas, so I, too, would be willing to let you try them. If you are interested, please send me a PM and we'll discuss details. Thanks.

Steve

Thanks Jeff and Steve... I really appreciate the offers to try out the antennas. I'll be PM'ing you soon.

Todd

just got a message from rick polling that sometime between now and spring they will be doing something to the wttk signal "that will help you a lot". he can't say what but suggests i don't even screw with it but rather wait a couple months. did i hear that they filed to move the transmit to the wxin tower? any word on that?

i am at about 82nd and fall creek.

greg

Does anyone know if Insight in Noblesville has any unscrambled QAM signals? If I buy a LG LST-4200a and plug it into my analog cable, will I get anything besides the analog stations that I already receive with the TV's built in NTSC tuner?

Originally posted by indygreg
just got a message from rick polling that sometime between now and spring they will be doing something to the wttk signal "that will help you a lot". he can't say what but suggests i don't even screw with it but rather wait a couple months. did i hear that they filed to move the transmit to the wxin tower? any word on that?

i am at about 82nd and fall creek.

greg

Greg,

Parts of the total plan to upgrade the coverage areas of WTTK-DT and WTTV-DT have been approved by the FCC but Rick has also mentioned that several other issues are still being worked out between the local engineers, Tribune (WTTV/WTTK's owner) and the FCC. Rick will notify us as soon as the confirmed details are available. Part of the delay reflects back to the stations' previous owner, Sinclair, for not having any DTV plans in place.

Steve

Originally posted by goldrich
Todd,

Your last post mentioned your attic. I believe most antenna experts would tell you that the roof will reduce your signal level anywhere from at least 20 to 40 percent, or sometimes even more. With WTTV-DT's weak signal you really can't afford to lose any more, but it would still be worth a try.

I see you have an offer to try Jeff's 4228. I have the 4221 and the 4228 as extra antennas, so I, too, would be willing to let you try them. If you are interested, please send me a PM and we'll discuss details. Thanks.

Steve

I have no knowledge why I get what I get here in Selma, about 5 miles east of Muncie, but my Radio Shack VU-160 antenna is inside my attic about 25 feet off of the ground and I have no amplification on it I also have a rotor. As I have posted before, my signal strength is as follows, as of right now this morning:

6-1 = 100
8-1 = 79
13-1 = 100
23-1 = 93-100
59-1 = 55

I am also getting 90 or better on all 3 birds for Direct TV. My home site is a 6 acre heavily wooded area and I am about 250 feet off of the road.

I totally agree that you must try different things to get the highest possible signal strength and there are many many factors to consider. I do not doubt for a minute that the info on having an antenna inside is USUALLY not a good place, but quite honestly I cannot complain about what I am getting here and feel that no one else would either.

As Steve Goldrich has pointed out to me personally before, I may be getting a great signal because of the local elevation here, which is over 1,000 feet above sea level, but I do not KNOW that.

Good luck with your setups and I hope it all works out for everyone, because when it is all working properly that picture is AMAZING.

Thanks for the ear guys
Tom Smalley

I got a call back from Ben at Stallion Satellite this morning and chatted for a bit. He seemed pretty knowledgeable about OTA reception, so I described my setup and what I was receiving (I get all the digital indicated by antennaweb.org except 27 (intermittent) and 48 (never). Ben was surprised that I got anything at all on 48 with only a Silver Sensor in the attic.

Ben didn't hold out much hope for a 4221 or 4228, but I did order a 4221 and picked it up over at Skywalker (what the heck, only $26.50). First I tried it in the attic, leaving my Sliver Sensor in place and splitting to the 4221 with equal lengths of RG-6 quad. Result was no 48 and degraded performance on all others, no matter what I tried. I next connected only the 4228 and couldn't get any better (inadequate) reception than the SS alone.

Finally, I took the 4221 up on the roof and again connected it stand-alone. I could get 80 or so on the meter (HR10-250) on 48, but aimed there the other stations to the northeast suffered terribly. I think I may be looking at a two-antenna solution, but the "equal lengths beyond the splitter" would be tough to do if I keep the SS in the attic because it would be difficult to actually measure the lead that runs thru the house and up near the chimney.

I think I need to keep a low profile here with what I do because of the HOA. Thoughts? Suggestions?

TIA,
Todd/Indy

Originally posted by tbhausen
Finally, I took the 4221 up on the roof and again connected it stand-alone. I could get 80 or so on the meter (HR10-250) on 48, but aimed there the other stations to the northeast suffered terribly. I think I may be looking at a two-antenna solution..............................................

I think I need to keep a low profile here with what I do because of the HOA. Thoughts? Suggestions?

TIA,
Todd/Indy

Congratulations, Todd, for being adventurous and having "fun with UHF antennas." As coolray, nathill and others would tell you, good reception results are usually related to placement, or as they say in the real estate business, location, location, location. Sometimes you hit the hot spot, and sometimes you don't.

For the time being, WTTV-DT 48's 4 kW signal is quite weak, much like the satellite signal you are receiving. The satellite signal is too weak to penetrate the materials in your roof, so the receiving dish must be placed outdoors. For example, WXIN-DT's 700 kW signal a few miles away is powerful enough to penetrate the materials in your house to reach your indoor antenna. Meanwhile, ch. 48's weak signal needs a "clean" shot to the transmitting tower, line-of-sight reception, or as clean as possible.

Outdoor antennas are designed to be much more directional than any indoor antenna, as this increases the gain in signal, plus this design helps to keep other signals on the same channel from entering the antenna and interfering with the station you are wanting to receive.

As for your HOA, you have every right to put your 4221 outside, as long as it is not more than 12-feet above your roof line. My HOA president lives directly behind me. Three years ago before I installed my outside antenna I sent him an email with the FCC website address (don't have it handy at the moment...) that relates to our topic. Two weeks later while at a HOA meeting, he brought up my item and stated that I had every right to install it. BTW, he happens to be a lawyer....... :-)

One suggestion would be to leave your Silver Sensor in the attic, as is, and then install the 4221 outdoors. Then run a separate line from the 4221 to the receiver inside. At this point run the line from the Silver Sensor and the line from the 4221 into a Radio Shack remote controlled A/B switch (#15-1968). This will keep the two signals separated and then you can control which feed you want fed into the receiver. I use this A/B switch for different antenna feeds and it works great. This way you don't need a rotor, equal lengths of cable, etc. I believe this should work for you.

My 2 cents. Let us know what you decide to do. Thanks.

Steve

Thanks, Steve... Great idea, the A/B switch. I have all the cable in place for that one already. Anybody know what 48's transmit power is now, and when it will be raised? Ben from Stallion Satellite told me he thought it was now 7kW (up from 4kW). This sure was easier when WTTV-DT was on 59-2. Too bad the FCC had to go mess up a good thing.

There's a nice link to the FCC ruling about the right to install antennas somewhere on antennaweb.org. I'm already planning on having to use it ;)

Todd/Indy

Todd;
Here's the latest information from the FCC.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WTTV
I can't wait for 870K of power, up from the current 4K.
Think that might help us? <vbg>
Nat

The picture quality of both games on WXIN 59-1 are AWESOME. This is the best I have ever seen in HD, with the possible exception of some stuff on HD NET. The thing that puzzles me is there was no designation of the signal being High Definition, but it just had to be.

I am not going to ask this question to rag on WISH or WTHR or WRTV, but none of those has any games of any kind that has the same quality picture as what I am watching right now and I was wondering what the reason or cause is. The all have some very good looking HD programming, but nothing like what I am looking at this afternoon. It is just SPECTACULAR.

Hey. After dumping Comcast a few months back due to concerns with the almighty dollar, I am moving up in the world and picking up Insight. What is the HD programming like, and what is the HD DVR like that Insight provides. Any background is helpful.

Thanks
Brady

Did anyone have problems with MNF tonight? At one point (3rd quarter) I lost the top half of the picture. Then, the picture came back but I had no sound for awhile. I am using HR10-250.

TIA,
Todd/Indy

Yes I did experience that same problem on MNF last night, so it must have been a problem on their end and not ours. I have an Hughes E-8.

Coolray

The last 2 Colts games were not supplied to us in HD, so we upconverted them. They should look good, but not as stunning as true HD.

CBS does 2 or 3 games each weekend in HD. Fox is similar, I believe. With luck, next year there will be enough TV trucks capable of HD that -all- the NFL games will be in HD.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom, do you have any inside information on whether or not my Boilermakers will be on in HD for the Sun Bowl on Friday, Dec. 31. It is CBS's only Bowl game so I think they would go all out of it. But I can't find any comfirmation of this anywhere on the net.

Thanks

Does anyone in Terre Haute get consistent receiption from the Indy channels? I have a 40 ft. tower at my house and was contemplating putting a CM 4228 on it to try and get them.

I don't want to waste my time and money on a lift to not get anything.

Did you try to get the TH stations yet? Just wondering if that worked (even without being mounted).

Jeff

Yeah Jeff I have 85% + on all three TH stations just on a tripod on the ground. Thanks again. PM me about what you want for the equipment.

I have no info on Bowl HD other than that which CBS presents publicly.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom, I noticed on this Monday's CSI Miami, that the audio was apparently messed up. I had all of the "effects" (car noises, radio traffic, crowds), but no main audio (dialog). Any word on that?

Thanks,
Ken

OK.. A little off topic. But who saw the video of the new colts stadium. I know it's just a 'preliminary design' but HOLY COW!

Retractable Roof..
Retractable End Zone Glass (provides a sweet view of downtown)
~63,000 capacity (70,000 is Super Bowl Minimum)
Ground Breaking Summer 05, Open Fall 08.

It's in the Big City Block of South, Missouri, McCarty, Capitol and angled northeast/southwest to provide downtown views. RCA Dome will be demolished and replaced with new Convention Center Space. It's all part of a deal to keep the Colts out of Los Angeles for another 30 years.

So I am thinking.. This is a good thing? I'm 24. I will be 28 when the Colts start playing here. Should I start saving NOW for seasons tickets... in the upper deck!

To keep this ON TOPIC... I bet it will look good in High Def!

Arrrgggh!

It's the 5.1 surround thing. CSI is now in 5.1 on Mondays, and it's been hard enough to remember to do it and return for football games, now it's for entertainment shows, too.

We need to come up with a way in automation to do this; the trick is doing it without making the system another layer deep.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Brighthouse Carmel / Indianapolis finally has HD DVR!!! They supposedly have the SA 8300! I have an installation scheduled for 1/3. If you have been waiting for one, like I have, it is time to call.

A co-worker just got Comcast HD installed, and the tech said something about DVR, within the next few weeks. That was a few weeks ago. Any Brighthouse luck coming Comcast's way?

Originally posted by bigjims_hdtv
Brighthouse Carmel / Indianapolis finally has HD DVR!!! They supposedly have the SA 8300! I have an installation scheduled for 1/3. If you have been waiting for one, like I have, it is time to call.

Do you know how much the monthly fee is for the unit? I have Bright House service and I'm thinking of adding it, too. Please post your impressions of the unit once you have a chance to try it out. Thanks.

Steve

I was wondering, I get Channel 4 on DirecTV here in Indy. Channel 4 is also offered on Time Warner cable in Terre Haute. My sister lives in Terre Haute and has DirecTV for the HD content. The problem is, she can watch all the Pacer games on Fox Sports Midwest but has no way to watch the away games on channel 4. Does anyone know a way to get the DirecTV feed of channel 4 in Terre Haute? Any clue?

Originally posted by jasonblair
I was wondering, I get Channel 4 on DirecTV here in Indy. Channel 4 is also offered on Time Warner cable in Terre Haute. My sister lives in Terre Haute and has DirecTV for the HD content. The problem is, she can watch all the Pacer games on Fox Sports Midwest but has no way to watch the away games on channel 4. Does anyone know a way to get the DirecTV feed of channel 4 in Terre Haute? Any clue?

Cable would be the only way. Unless she lived on the East side of TH, she would not be able to pick it up with an antenna.

She can purchase "network" cable (CBS, NBC, WBAK [Fox], WXIN [Fox], WTTV, WTIU, etc.) from Time Warner Cable for under $10 per month.

Wish I had better information.

Jeff

I have a question for those in the Terre Haute market. Does anyone live over by Clinton and if so what type of antenna do you use, is it indoor or outdoor, where do you have it aimed, how is your reception.

A family member in that area just got an OTA HD STB and didn't know what antenna to use. He will be putting it inside and most likely will not have it on a rotor.

Thanks

Originally posted by fgr41
I have a question for those in the Terre Haute market. Does anyone live over by Clinton and if so what type of antenna do you use, is it indoor or outdoor, where do you have it aimed, how is your reception.

A family member in that area just got an OTA HD STB and didn't know what antenna to use. He will be putting it inside and most likely will not have it on a rotor.

Thanks

WTHI (CBS) is the only HD station and is on VERY low power. IF it can be received, the antenna would need to be mounted outside. I live about 3 miles from the tower and can not pick it up with an indoor antenna.

WBAK (Fox) and WTWO (NBC) are both in Farmersburg (South of town). There is no reception at all with an indoor antenna. They only broadcast 480i digital, so I'm not sure it's even worth the effort for them.

I have a UHF outdoor antenna from Radio Shack.

You can go to this (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx) site to find the direction.

Jeff

With what he had installed he was able to get 2.1 and 10.1 but 38.1 would not come in. 38.1 showed 49% on the signal meter for his receiver but I was thinking if he is getting that with his current antenna he might be able to get more with a better setup. Following my suggestion my in-law went into his attic and tried to tweak his antenna direction a bit, he ended up breaking it. Now he is looking for a new antenna that will bring everything in. I feel bad but if he was that close to getting 38.1 adjusting the direction may have worked.

This (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2160) is similar to the one I purchased.

The WBAK signal is not as strong as the WTWO signal. Same type of transmitter. It is mounted on the same tower. The engineer is not sure of the problem.

Jeff

Until the local stations get it together (Terre Haute) I'm using the Zenith Silver Sensor (3 miles south of Clinton) and pick up the 3 locals. Realistically
(10 CBS) is the only station broadcasting anything in hi-def.

Looks like WTHR is having audio delays again. They were 1-2 seconds off last night. Sunday night they weren't quit as bad. I hope they get it fixed faster then last time!

Originally posted by Ziuck
Looks like WTHR is having audio delays again. They were 1-2 seconds off last night. Sunday night they weren't quit as bad. I hope they get it fixed faster then last time!

I noticed it as well, both last night and Sunday night...

Jeff

Due to a major equipment replacement project, the frame synchronizer we use to correct the NBC HD audio delay was out of service Sunday and yesterday. It is back in service today.

Implementing 5.1 Dolby Surround on NBC’s HD programming required design and fabrication of a complex switch, which I had planned to have built and installed several months ago. Since then, some emergency work and several major higher precedence assignments put this off. I have the switch on this month’s agenda.

Sincerely,
Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering & Operations
WTHR NBC 13/WTHR-DT 13.1/13.2

Did anyone else loose WTHR-DT or is it just my system. About 20 min ago while watching the news I lost signal. I looked at the signal strength and I can't pick up anything on 46.

I'm showing no signal on WTHR. A little while ago WRTV was the same way but it's back now. Maybe our swell climate.

Nevermind -
It's all back, must have been something since it wasnt just me.

I haven't had WRTV HD on Insight Cable in Bloomington since at least 7:55. It may have been out before then, but that's when I turned it on.

Just the national championship game I'm missing...

Anyone else having problems?

WRTV is ok now but I am getting dropouts of audio and some quick video blips.

OK I have to be honest, I didn't mind the audio dropouts during the 1/2 time show. WOW THAT WAS UNBALEIVABLE HOW BAD OF A 1/2 TIME THEY PUT ON.

Here is a hint to the networks when putting on big sporting events. STICK TO THE SPORT AND SKIP THE MUSIC!

Speaking of Terre Haute and Time Warner Cable, Channel 7 (WTWO), 8 (WBAK), 12 (CBS), etc. do not come in as HD at all. Not even the football games. Anyone else have that problem? I also cant get several of the HD channels too. I dont get INHD1, INHD2, HDNET and HDMovies. Whats the deal? I thought you were supposed to get those with the HD box?

Around 10A on 1/04/05 WRTV had a slate up on DT informing of some impending work to the signal, and that some tuners would need to re-scan for signal.

... ABC sucks at college football coverage. end the monoploy on coverage! PLEASE!

Originally posted by ARK27
Speaking of Terre Haute and Time Warner Cable, Channel 7 (WTWO), 8 (WBAK), 12 (CBS), etc. do not come in as HD at all. Not even the football games. Anyone else have that problem? I also cant get several of the HD channels too. I dont get INHD1, INHD2, HDNET and HDMovies. Whats the deal? I thought you were supposed to get those with the HD box?

WTWO and WBAK aren't broadcasting in high def.. they waste their digital transmission on a resolution no better than standard def... 480i.

WTHI broadcasts their prime time CBS feed in 1080i, but they don't broadcast any other CBS programming that is available in high def... mainly The Young and the Restless during the weekdays and the NFL Football games on Sundays.

I was shocked to find the Colts/Broncos game, which was in high def in Indy was NOT in high def in Terre Haute. You'd think an Emmis station would be a little more on the ball!

WTWO and WBAK will NEVER bradcast in high def. I am a pretty good friend with Julie Henricks at WTWO and she told me that if the FCC forced WTWO to broadcast in 1080i. Nexstar would probably just shut down the station. I'm not sure that would be a bad thing. Then we could get the HD Network feeds on DirecTV.

Speaking of which, has anyone heard that McCain has a bill that would REQUIRE TV stations who do not broadcast in high def to give waivers to sattelite subscribers? That would be awesome. People in Terre Haute are at the mercy of Nexstar unless that bill goes through.

Originally posted by bradyusi
... ABC sucks at college football coverage. end the monoploy on coverage! PLEASE!

Well, in 2007, your wish will come true, at least for the BCS games.

"BCS-FOX Reach Agreement on TV Deal"

http://www.bcsfootball.org/news.cfm?headline=70


bakem

Originally posted by jasonblair
WTHI broadcasts their prime time CBS feed in 1080i, but they don't broadcast any other CBS programming that is available in high def... mainly The Young and the Restless during the weekdays and the NFL Football games on Sundays.

All the CBS prime time shows available in HD are shown in HD in Terre Haute. CSI Miami, Raymond, CSI, CSI NY, etc. These have been for a couple of years.

Originally posted by jasonblair
I was shocked to find the Colts/Broncos game, which was in high def in Indy was NOT in high def in Terre Haute. You'd think an Emmis station would be a little more on the ball!

Actually, the game was not transmitted in HD until the early games were completed. I called the station and the control room did not receive a signal until around the end of the first quarter. WTHI has been extremely good about passing HD signal when it's been available. The engineering staff there deserves a big thanks.

Originally posted by jasonblair
...Nexstar would probably just shut down the station. I'm not sure that would be a bad thing. Then we could get the HD Network feeds on DirecTV...

The sooner the better...I would love to see them go out of business tomorrow. As long as they have control of the airwaves it is bad for Terre Haute.

Originally posted by ARK27
Speaking of Terre Haute and Time Warner Cable, Channel 7 (WTWO), 8 (WBAK), 12 (CBS), etc. do not come in as HD at all. Not even the football games. Anyone else have that problem? I also cant get several of the HD channels too. I dont get INHD1, INHD2, HDNET and HDMovies. Whats the deal? I thought you were supposed to get those with the HD box?


WTHI is not broadcast on cable at this time. The only way you can receive the HD signal is with an OTA tuner. As jasonblair stated, the other two stations broadcast a 480i digital signal OTA (they suck).

INHD1, INHD2, HDNET, HDNET movies are part of the "HD Package". You pay around $10 per month. Do you subscribe to that service? Do you receive PBS, TNT, DiscoveryHD?

Jeff

Originally posted by goldrich
Do you know how much the monthly fee is for the unit? I have Bright House service and I'm thinking of adding it, too. Please post your impressions of the unit once you have a chance to try it out. Thanks.

Steve

Steve, The unit is $4.95 / month in addition to the approx $7.65 digital tuner fee. So if you already have the digital tuner, you would still pay that fee in addition to the $4.95 recorder fee.

The pvr was installed right on time on Monday. I have recorded several programs on it, but haven't really spent a great deal of time investigating all its features. It seemed really easy to use via the guide. It only supposedly has 20 hr HD recording, but I haven't verified that yet. I do know that the external SATA drive capability is not enabled yet.

I will post more when I have a chance to use it more.

Jim

Re: WRTV on Insight Cable in Bloomington -- I spoke with the cable company this morning. They just told me that they know they are having problems with that channel and they are working on it. Insight got quite a black eye last night. I had people over just to watch the Orange Bowl in HD. Instead they get to watch me on hold with Insight for almost 30 minutes, find out that customer service wasn't staffed in Bloomington (I got to talk to someone in Louisville, all she could do was say that she saw no problems and offer to schedule a service technician to come to my house). They got to watch me flip back and forth at every commercial to see if the game was on yet. They got to see the outstanding picture quality Insight offers on its analog channels - which really looks lousy on a big screen.

Okay - enough of the Insight route.

Steve, I have had a DVR since last March. Don't know how I'd live without it now. Insight provides the Motorola 6208, which only has one tuner (boooooo!) and an 80 gb hard drive. In HD I can get three average length (~2 hour) movies and maybe another 1/2 hour or hour of programming in that space. There usually isn't enough space for a fourth movie.

Bill

Normally I post about Indy/Bloomington....but since I now work in Terre Haute....I have two indoor/outdoor antennas mounted in the rafters at our local HH Gregg store....(former a/v salesman now manager). I watched the Colts/Bronco game on an integrated ED plasma while playing Ops manager for the day. WTHI was indeed broadcasting hd the majority of the game. Late Monday night while again waiting for delivery truck they were up and running.

I can pickup 2 (36.1) 10 (24.1), and 38 (39.1) and am also picking up 41.1 and trying to identify who that channel is.

BradH (lives just east of me) and I have received these channels for months at our respective homes. I know Brad had an outdoor amplifier problem and I know that I suffer from this as well and am getting it repaired prior to the Superbowl. I am also upgrading my UHF outdoor antenna with one reccomended by my antenna installer...and adding a D*# hd Satellite dish to my tv tower and adding a Samsung SIRT165.

My uhf from Channel Master will be mounted at my store so that we really can showcase HD in the store. Anyhow as soon as I find out who 41.1 I will let everyone know.

Originally posted by RSlamD
I can pickup 2 (36.1) 10 (24.1), and 38 (39.1) and am also picking up 41.1 and trying to identify who that channel is.


I'm not sure who that is either. Do you get a picture or just the channel in the listing?

What about the Super Bowl??? What station is covering it and will it be in HD???

CCsoftball7, Thanks for the info. So for now I wont be able to see HD broadcasts on CBS until they start broadcasting it through cable. Right? Are there any plans to do that?

I did get the HD box in exchange for my digital cable box. I can get PBS, TNT and Discovery in HD but not the other ones. When I asked them about cost they said there wasnt an increase from the regular digital cable box. Occasionally the HDNet Movie Channel will come in but thats not very often.

RslamD, HHGregg huh.. thats where I bought my tv from.

It sounds like if done properly you can get 2, 10, and 38 from the Clinton area. Does anyone have experience with Winegard antenna's? I was thinking the Winegard PR-8800 would work for the Clinton area. I got a PR-4400 last week and just with some simple tests in my living room I was able to get MUCH better signal strength and even pick up WTTV again. Once this rain stops I plan on mounting it outside and when the crawl space dries out again I plan on making a new cable run to the TV.

Jason: YES I could get the following DT channels 4,6,8,13,20,23,59,63 with the antenna sitting on my living room floor here in Avon.

Originally posted by ARK27
What about the Super Bowl??? What station is covering it and will it be in HD???

CCsoftball7, Thanks for the info. So for now I wont be able to see HD broadcasts on CBS until they start broadcasting it through cable. Right? Are there any plans to do that?

I did get the HD box in exchange for my digital cable box. I can get PBS, TNT and Discovery in HD but not the other ones. When I asked them about cost they said there wasnt an increase from the regular digital cable box. Occasionally the HDNet Movie Channel will come in but thats not very often.

RslamD, HHGregg huh.. thats where I bought my tv from.

My best guess is that you need a new cable run to the house/apartment. I had to have a new line run as it would not support the bandwidth.

The Superbowl is on FOX (SOL in Terre Haute). Unless you can pick up Champaign, IL you won't be able to see it in HD.

You could buy an OTA tuner/DVD upconverter combination for around $300 at CC. WTHI has a steady signal. When I talked to Jeff (engineer) at WTHI there are no plans to broadcast CBS via cable at this time. OTA is not a bad option at all.

In what part of town do you live?

Jeff

Those stations I mentioned show up under the guide from Time Warner. It just says I need to subscribe to them in order to view them. , I can get PBS, TNT and Discovery in HD. Whats interesting is the woman I talked to said there wasnt an extra charge for the HD box but you mentioned it was a $10 package. Im wondering if I need to subscribe after all to get those other channels. How can you tell if the line you have wont support the bandwith?

So if CBS isnt broadcasted over cable, how does Time Warner pick it up and deliver it?

I live out East by the airport.

Sure wish there was same way that I could watch the SuperBowl in HD. You said it was on FOX. Is that WXIN59 from Indy? Thats the Fox channel here. What do you mean by SOL?

Originally posted by CCsoftball7
My best guess is that you need a new cable run to the house/apartment. I had to have a new line run as it would not support the bandwidth.

The Superbowl is on FOX (SOL in Terre Haute). Unless you can pick up Champaign, IL you won't be able to see it in HD.

You could buy an OTA tuner/DVD upconverter combination for around $300 at CC. WTHI has a steady signal. When I talked to Jeff (engineer) at WTHI there are no plans to broadcast CBS via cable at this time. OTA is not a bad option at all.

In what part of town do you live?

Jeff

WBAK is the Fox affiliate in Terre Haute. Time Warner cable carries WXIN out of Indy, but only when it is not running Fox programming. When the Fox feed comes on, Time Warner cable has to block it out in Terre Haute because channel 38 has the exclusive rights to it in Terre Haute.

SOL means that you are Poopie Outta Luck.

(I can't type what the S stands for on here)

Originally posted by RSlamD
I can pickup 2 (36.1) 10 (24.1), and 38 (39.1) and am also picking up 41.1 and trying to identify who that channel is.


After checking antenna web it appears 41.1 is probably WICD out of Champaign, Illinois.

Also it's great to hear RSlamD is manager at the Haute Gregg. Too many folks around here rely on the CC folks for their expertise on HD or Home Theater. Not trying to be a smart@ss, but the young guys that work there have no clue what they're selling. :D

fgr41.......What part of Clinton does your friend/family live? Part of the town is lower (valley) and part is elevated. I use to live in the lower part and by using the Silver Sensor I could only get 10-1. Moved 3 miles south and more elevated the Sensor will now receive the 3 Terre Haute stations.

Finally, good to see a few folks around the Wabash Valley interested in HD and HT. Maybe at some point we could have a home theater meet like Indy did if anyone was interested?

Rdslam knows his stuff. I was sorry to see him leave the Bloomington HH Greg. He sold me my HDTV when he worked there.

Originally posted by ARK27
Those stations I mentioned show up under the guide from Time Warner. It just says I need to subscribe to them in order to view them. , I can get PBS, TNT and Discovery in HD. Whats interesting is the woman I talked to said there wasnt an extra charge for the HD box but you mentioned it was a $10 package. Im wondering if I need to subscribe after all to get those other channels. How can you tell if the line you have wont support the bandwith?

The only way you can tell if you are getting good signal is to have a tech come to the house and read the signal meter.

There is a $10 charge for the HD package, not the box. TNT, PBS and DiscoveryHD are all part of the standard package.

Originally posted by ARK27

So if CBS isnt broadcasted over cable, how does Time Warner pick it up and deliver it?

I live out East by the airport.

Sure wish there was same way that I could watch the SuperBowl in HD. You said it was on FOX. Is that WXIN59 from Indy? Thats the Fox channel here. What do you mean by SOL?

CBS is broadcast over cable, but NOT CBS HD. It's a separate channel (broadcast UHF channel 24).

The ONLY way you will receive local HD in the near future is to put up an antenna and either use your TV's ATSC tuner or buy a STB with an ATSC tuner.

If you live close to the airport, might not be able to pick up much OTA. However, if you live East of the airport, you might be able to get a Winegard 4228 antenna and pick up all the Indy stations.

Jeff

Originally posted by nathill


I can't wait for 870K of power, up from the current 4K.
Think that might help us? <vbg>
Nat

Looking up WTTK on the site looks like they're trying to move it south and up it to 1000K...

Any news on when either will take place? I live in Carmel and really want to watch Jack and Bobby in HD sometime before the season is done.

I live in Carmel and really want to watch Jack and Bobby in HD sometime before the season is done.

I'm not a regular "Jack and Bobby" viewer, but I have flipped past it on WTTV-HD a few times and it was never in HD. It was letterboxed with black bars at the sides, so that the whole picture is surrounded by a big black frame. I can't say that they always show it like that, but I've seen it that way at least 4 or 5 times. I've seen other WB shows ("Gilmore Girls" specifically) in HD.

Originally posted by bigjims_hdtv
Steve, The unit is $4.95 / month in addition to the approx $7.65 digital tuner fee. So if you already have the digital tuner, you would still pay that fee in addition to the $4.95 recorder fee.
Jim

Jim and Bill, thanks for the feedback regarding the HD DVR. I'm planning to call Bright House and to give it a try. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for Bright House (Indy/Carmel) to add WRTV-DT, WTTV-DT, WXIN-DT and WNDY-DT. I am watching these stations OTA. Currently this cable company only offers WISH-DT, WFYI-DT and WTHR-DT. Not a very good batting average.......

Steve

I guess Insight in Bloomington isn't so bad in the local HD they offer. I get WTHR, WISH, WRTV, WXIN and WTIU (instead of WFYI). No sign of WNDY or WTTV.

ESPN2 HD launched today. Anyone know of cable companies in Indiana carrying it day one? They are launching with three college basketball games in HD the first night: DePaul/Cincinnati @ 7, Memphis/Texas @ 9, and Gonzaga/Santa Clara @ 11.

Bill

RWB: He lives on top of a hill just west of Lilly. If he is able to get the antenna outside and mounted on the roof he should be able to get all 3 plus maybe some IL stations if he is lucky. He is trying to find someone with a bucket that will help him hoist an antenna on the roof.

Originally posted by NickIndy
Looking up WTTK on the site looks like they're trying to move it south and up it to 1000K...

Any news on when either will take place? I live in Carmel and really want to watch Jack and Bobby in HD sometime before the season is done.

We might get some information regarding this project before the end of the month.............. :-)


RWB,
Yes, that DTV station on ch. 41 is most likely WICD-DT (15-1), Champaign, NBC affiliate. The station recently increased its power. Its 1200+ foot tower is approx. 10 miles east of Champaign. I'm 95 miles away and I have seen it a few times since the power increase. From what I've read, the station is not currently passing HD but apparently does have plans to add HD sometime this year.

Steve

Ah, ok everything makes since now. Thanks a ton for your help. Im sure I will be posting and reading this thread for quite a while.


Originally posted by CCsoftball7
The only way you can tell if you are getting good signal is to have a tech come to the house and read the signal meter.

There is a $10 charge for the HD package, not the box. TNT, PBS and DiscoveryHD are all part of the standard package.

CBS is broadcast over cable, but NOT CBS HD. It's a separate channel (broadcast UHF channel 24).

The ONLY way you will receive local HD in the near future is to put up an antenna and either use your TV's ATSC tuner or buy a STB with an ATSC tuner.

If you live close to the airport, might not be able to pick up much OTA. However, if you live East of the airport, you might be able to get a Winegard 4228 antenna and pick up all the Indy stations.

Jeff

I'm in Plainfield just a mile or two West of Indy Airport. All my stations are at about 38-40 degrees and 15-18 miles away. The airport is *not* directly between me and the stations but is nearby. I'm in an apartment complex; I'm on the West side (away from the stations) of my building and the complex. It's a 2-story complex and I'm on the 2nd floor and have a vaulted ceiling.

Before I read up thoroughly on antennas I bought the funky little Terk at my local chain electronics store. (It looks like the silver sensor thing people recommend but is more expensive, has VHF rabbit ears, falls apart too easily and the UHF fins are raked foreward instead of back.)

I can get 9 (8) and 25 (6) okay with the Terk, but it breaks up if I walk around the room.

If I try real hard I can get a weak signal but no picture on Fox 45 (59).

After reading around I was nearly decided on the DB2. Then I think I have enough room alongside my TV shelves or up in the vaulted ceiling for a 4-bay (CM3021 or DB4). Now I'm playing with the idea of an indoor 8-bay (CM4228 or DB8). I don't expect multipath to be a problem, but I'm liking the idea of an extra 2dB or 3dB gain with the 8-bay. Any comments on the wisdom of an indoor 8-bay? (I'm single.)

Is anyone in a nearby area pulling in Fox 45 (59) or PBSHD 44 (21) with an indoor antenna? What type?

I understand an FCC ruling allows me to put an antenna on my balcony, but I'm thinking since I'm on the wrong side of the building it won't help to put it outside. Am I right? If it does help, would the 40" width of an 8-bay be too big (it's just over 1 meter) to fall under the FCC exception for apartment restrictions?

If I get an 8-bay and regret it, it looks like I could break it into two 4-bays and use one of them. Is this doable on the 4228 and/or DB8?

I've seen it said that the DB4 and DB8 outperform their Channel Master counterparts. Is this based on objective criteria, or is it based on the marketed gain number? Should I worry about that 20% or so gain or save the money?

Thanks!

EDIT: If I have trouble with 9 (8) on the UHF-only antenna I figure on getting a splitter/combiner/whatever and hooking up rabbit ears. I'm not concerned with analog reception or future DTV frequency changes at this time. FYI, my tuner is an LG LST-3510A.

I live at 100N and 267 and am currently using a double bow-tie radioshack antenna sitting on top of my tv. It pulls in 9,21,25,32,45,46 with a little adjusting from time to time. Here is the link to the antenna. I currently do not have any amp hooked up.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=930%2D0998

I just bought a winegard pr4400 and playing with it in my living room I was able to get all of the above mentioned stations as well as pulling in WTTV.

BigMoneyJim,
A little altitude could help you. I'm also using a RS double bow tie but slightly modified. I removed the 300 ohm twin lead and attached the 300 to 75 ohm balun to the antenna directly. From that I have a 10 dB amp at the antenna. I suspect it does more to counter signal loss through 100 feet of RG6 then anything else.

With this set up in it's various incarnations I could get one or two stations at a time in the living room. Ditto for an ancient set of rabbit ears. Moving to the high point of the attic (the 100 feet of RG-6) or about 20 feet AGL here made a world of difference. I now get WISH, WRTV, WTHR, WFYI, WNDY and WXIN without adjustment. Aiming was real touchy though. From the way the signal quality behaved (bounced up and down) I suspect it was multipath.

I suspect this antenna is marginal for actual signal strength here in Plainfield. Heavy rain etc sometimes causes me to lose WRTV and WFYI. At least it drops out enough to be a pain.

If you don't have attic or roof access I'd suggest you try as high in your vaulted ceiling as possible. Any of the antennas you mention should be directional enough to help with mulitpath. Other then that experiment. What works for me or someone else may be a complete zero for you. Sometimes just moving the same antenna from one end of the house to the other makes a world of difference.

Thanks for the info. You both sound quite close to my location. I'm very close to the Kroger at 267 & 40.

Tonight I experimented with setting the Terk (it's model HDTVi, by the way) outside...little improvment.

Then I unhooked the Terk and hooked up my old UHF loop for grins. It worked as well as the Terk inside (except for VHF 9) and picked up a bunch of channels outside! I got Fox, NBC and ABC locally plus PAX and PBS from Bloomington and another channel or two. (CBS is VHF and didn't get it with only the UHF loop hooked up.) The signals are very weak even though I saw no dropouts while I was messing around.

Okay, I guess an 8-bay would be major overkill, and it looks like outside is probably the way to go unless a RS double bow or DB2 works well indoors for me.

I'm currently split between the RS double bow, the DB2 and the 4-bay. The 4-bay is still overkill but is cheaper than the DB2 and if I go outdoors the size may not be a problem for me. Heck maybe I should just hang a loop outside...

Oh, and I'm going to see if the store will take back this overpriced piece of useless scrap Terk...

Jim
Just for the record all the antennas you are looking at are technically UHF only. However, on strong VHF the RS double bow tie works fine. I've heard this is true on the 4 and 8 bay jobs also but can't swear to it. I typically run around 100% on WISH-DT with it. Some of the other stations are weaker. WFYI-DT is in the 65% range. Outdoors is always best but if you can't get a clear line of sight, like if you have to aim through the building for instance, inside might be better. This would be true because you've reduced the number of walls to pass through by one.

The best you can do is experiment. I've thought of trying a larger antenna since it seems like I'm on the edge for signal strength. antennaweb.org actual suggest a medium gain directional out here instead of the little indoor job I have. I think that I get away with it because the way digital works. It's not so much strength as quality. A clean weak signal will show fine and read higher on the signal indicator then a strong one with lot of mulitpath etc. I suspect this is why I sometimes lose a couple stations. The clean weak signal just fades away...

One thing to keep in mind is when the signal gets low enough you can start getting freezes or blocking up on the screen. For the MyHD card this seems to be signals in the 40-50% range. Fast motion is worst for this. Static scenes are easier. Just something to keep in mind when setting up. Your receiver may be different. I don't know if there are any standards on the signal meter. The implementation of the 8VSB decoder probably has a big affect also.

Yes, I figured on rabbit ears for the one current VHF DTV station. But now that I'm getting a decent signal with a plain loop I'm reconsidering what I want. Now I'm thinking a simple dipole for VHF plus a bidirectional UHF antenna (I seem to pick up Bloomington's stations okay outdoors; might as well go bi-di) to clamp onto my balcony rail, but I haven't found exactly what I want yet. The CM AC9 (http://antennacraft-tdp.com/AC.htm) looks close, but I don't know if the UHF is bi-di. The SL-4BT on this page (http://www.wade-antenna.com/UHFantennas.htm) looks interesting but is UHF-only and has no price listed.

I had pooh-poohed the idea of an indoor antenna, but come to think of it I haven't tried placing the loop high in the ceiling yet. I'll have to try that tomorrow...heck if I can stay indoors I might use the old loop & rabbit ears if they work well enough.

As far as the signal meter, on my 3510A I think I'm starting to understand it: I think there are two scales, one for when it's decoding the digital signal and one for when it's hunting for the signal. There was a certain point on my signal meter that I could never get past if I couldn't get a picture in. But another channel could go down to zero and still keep a picture, so I think when I'm getting a picture the meter indicates how well it feels it's tracking the digital stream, and when there's no picture it's letting me know whether or not it sees a radio signal on that frequency, but the meter won't go past low unless it can decode the stream. I think this is why it will suddenly jump between low to zero to high when the digital stream is cutting in and out. (At one point I was experimenting with holding a baking sheet behind the antennas as a reflector...no help there when on top of the TV but when I moved it the signal meter would jump high momentarily...think I faked it out.)

Back to the antennas, I sure wish there were a local store where I could keep bringing antennas home and testing them and taking them back until I'm happy! (And this store would have a complete collection, of course...) As it is I'm going to have to make my best guess based on my Terk and loop trials and hope it works without being bulky overkill.

BigMoneyJim,
Before you commit to a two antenna setup try it with just the UHF antenna of your choice first. I'm getting WISH-DT on a UHF only antenna. YMMV of course.

I think (no expert on this) that the AC9 will be directional. Of course it won't have any problem with VHF. I think the SL-4BT will be bi-directional like your loop. Of course without a screen it will have lower gain and less multipath rejection.

I'm not familiar with the LG hardware but suspect if you look at your signal gage like this it will make sense. From an email exchange with Rick Poling and other reading I understand this gage to be a measure of quality, not strength. Think of quality as to how little error correction is going on. When the signal is digitized there is some redundancy incorporated. Otherwise if you missed one bit the picture would drop out until it recovered enough to go on.

This is why it will stay low until you get a picture. No picture equals very low quality. A widely varying signal I've always associated with strong mulitpath. In analog the multipath causes ghosting. With digital it just confuses the receiver and the error rate goes up. The signal meter drops to reflect this. Because of this characteristic of digital signals sometimes you can get a better picture with the antenna aimed at something other then directly at the transmitter. IE a strong reflection may give better results then the primary transmission.

Keep in mind actual signal strength still plays a role. You have to have a strong enough one to driver the receiver input stages. The only difference is unlike analog which will fade out, digital seems to be either there or gone.

As to antennas locally you might try Radio Shack, Lowes, Home Depot etc. RS does carry for sure and I think the others do to a degree. No idea what the trial policy is. Be worth a phone call.

Does anyone know why ch. 59.1 insn't broadcasting 24 in hi-def tonight? With so little HD content available (especially when you only have OTA), not being able to watch this with no HD or 5.1 is VERY aggravating.

OK...

Last time I mentioned this, I got chewed out on here, so let me ask again... did WTHI air the Colts-Broncos playoff game in HD today? My sister in Terre Haute called me and said she was watching 10-1, and it was NOT in high def. Is this correct? And if so, why?

I also left a message with WXIN... I was SUPER PISSED that 24 was not in high def tonight. What's the deal!??!

Hello all,

I am making a list of all the DTV stations in Indy and other areas, and
since I am out-of-market, I need help on something.

I need to know what stations have subchannels and what they show on
them. Anyone have or can make a list online here? If a stations subchannel is showing just radar, say "radar", and if they're showing a slide show
of weather maps, including radar, just say "weather" and I'll know what you mean. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

First cut at it, along with my local stations, on an Excel spreadsheet:

weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls

If you decide to download it, as always, please scan the file first for
viruses. Even though I am a system administrator and my system
is clean, I ask everyone to trust no one when sharing Word or other
data files, and have them scanned for viruses and worms first.
No slam on myself, or to you. Just standard operating procedure.
Thanks again!

P.S. Quad Cities station subchannels, if you care, will be updated
tomorrow afternoon on that spreadsheet. Ditto for South Bend,
which is correct except for WNDU-DT, which has a subchannel of UPN
or WB. I need to check my sheet and look at WSBT-DT to verify
which one it is.


Gilbert

Originally posted by jasonblair
OK...

Last time I mentioned this, I got chewed out on here, so let me ask again... did WTHI air the Colts-Broncos playoff game in HD today? My sister in Terre Haute called me and said she was watching 10-1, and it was NOT in high def. Is this correct? And if so, why?

I also left a message with WXIN... I was SUPER PISSED that 24 was not in high def tonight. What's the deal!??!

I called WTHI during the first quarter and they told me thier HD transmitter "has been broke all week."

Also.. "We don't have any idea what is wrong with it."

So yeah, that sucked yesterday.

Originally posted by Rasolomg23
I called WTHI during the first quarter and they told me thier HD transmitter "has been broke all week."

Also.. "We don't have any idea what is wrong with it."

So yeah, that sucked yesterday.

Yep, that's correct. I'm calling the engineer today to try to get a timeframe.

There is a circuit board that needs to be replaced. The cost is about $8k and is coming from Canada. If it gets here by Saturday, then the game will be in HD. If not (most likely), the game will not be in HD on Sunday.

Originally posted by woverman
I guess Insight in Bloomington isn't so bad in the local HD they offer. I get WTHR, WISH, WRTV, WXIN and WTIU (instead of WFYI). No sign of WNDY or WTTV.

ESPN2 HD launched today. Anyone know of cable companies in Indiana carrying it day one? They are launching with three college basketball games in HD the first night: DePaul/Cincinnati @ 7, Memphis/Texas @ 9, and Gonzaga/Santa Clara @ 11.

Bill

I spoke with insight late last week because I am upgrading to HD and they said they will be launching WTTV/WB in HD within the next month or so.

Did anyone else have problems with the sound on WRTV Saturday for the football games. Anything that wasn't Dolby Digital came through very soft, more noticeably in the MNF game. Can't complain too much, though, because the commercials had barely any sound. ;-)

I've noticed this all year on MNF when the go from the intro to the FedEx ground and air stats before kickoff, but it has never been this bad for any other audio.

Originally posted by jasonblair
I also left a message with WXIN... I was SUPER PISSED that 24 was not in high def tonight. What's the deal!??!

Yeah, that was really lame. It seems good tonight though. Anyone notice that Fox 59 HD logo in the corner? It seems awfully bright and high contrast ... could it be a burn-in risk?

That depends on your set up. Plasma, Crt(all types) maybe; dlp,lcd, d-ila, no. Damned annoying no matter what!

Does Insight in Bloomington carry Fox in HD? I only have analog cable now but with my QAM turner get all the unscrambled HD signals. I get two PBS channels, ABC, NBC, and CBS, but no Fox. Insight should provide Fox unscrambled if they provide it. Only get PBS OTA. The OTA reception bites on the southside of Bloomington.

Hello all,

This was on the previous page and it probably wasn't seen by most folks, so I'll try again. I am making a list of all the DTV stations in Indy and other areas, and since I am out-of-market, I need help on something.

I need to know what stations have subchannels and what they show on
them. Anyone have or can make a list online here? If a stations subchannel is showing just radar, say "radar", and if they're showing a slide show
of weather maps, including radar, just say "weather" and I'll know what you mean. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

First cut at it, along with my local stations, on an Excel spreadsheet:

weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls

If you decide to download it, as always, please scan the file first for
viruses. Even though I am a system administrator and my system
is clean, I ask everyone to trust no one when sharing Word or other
data files, and have them scanned for viruses and worms first.
No slam on myself, or to you. Just standard operating procedure.
Thanks again!

P.S. Quad Cities station subchannels, if you care, will be updated
tomorrow afternoon on that spreadsheet. Ditto for South Bend,
which is correct except for WNDU-DT, which has a subchannel of UPN
or WB. I need to check my sheet and look at WSBT-DT to verify
which one it is.
__________________

Finally the Motorola 6412 in Indy area (Comcast- Indianapolis).

My initial impression: The picture quality (HD) is excellent (better than D* HD), the SD portion is not as good (as D*).

The DVR works- though the wrong remote ? (no PIP, no swap button).

Maybe the channels have implemented 5C copy protection, apparently when I tried to record onto to my computer (XP- DVHS capature followed the sticky thread)- I could only get the sound.

anybody else tried the box?

thanks

Are there any TiVO-like features, such as record by name (i.e. record all episodes of West Wing no matter which channel), or Season Passes (record only new episodes of West Wing)?

Jeff

Jeff,

To be honest, I haven't tried the "Tivo like" feature yet (I have SD Tivo from D*- never tried that either)- I will do some comparison later.

I don't have the HD-Tivo unit- but from my experience with the SD version- The Motorola 6412 HD-DVR is not nearly as user friendly or feature-packed.


With the technlogy evolving so fast- it is nice to just "swap" a new box when upgrade is available.

Now, would be nice if D* or Comcast add more HD programming-

:-)

Originally posted by bigjims_hdtv
Steve, The unit is $4.95 / month in addition to the approx $7.65 digital tuner fee. So if you already have the digital tuner, you would still pay that fee in addition to the $4.95 recorder fee.

The pvr was installed right on time on Monday. I have recorded several programs on it, but haven't really spent a great deal of time investigating all its features. It seemed really easy to use via the guide. It only supposedly has 20 hr HD recording, but I haven't verified that yet. I do know that the external SATA drive capability is not enabled yet.

I will post more when I have a chance to use it more.

Jim

Jim, apparently since your unit was delivered, Dull (Bright) House has decided not to honor scheduled appointments. Last week I set up an appointment for yesterday to have the HD PVR installed. After leaving work early and waiting at home for almost an hour, I discovered that the installer had stopped at my house prior to the appointment time and had left an invoice at my front door. Also, the installer was supposed to call ahead (written on the invoice) to let me know he was on the way. I didn't have any voicemail message. Later last evening I spoke to a company supervisor who explained to me that the CSR didn't schedule my appointment correctly.........Thanks! It is now rescheduled for this Saturday. Time will tell if Dull House honors this appointment.

This is the same cable company that just recently added ESPN-HD (I'm sure it will be a very, very cold day before it adds the new ESPN2-HD) and still doesn't offer WRTV-DT, WXIN-DT, WTTV-DT or WNDY-DT. With this in mind, if you live in a Dull House service area and are planning to watch the Super Bowl in HD from WXIN-DT, then you'd better pray a lot and/or go out and purchase an OTA receiver........ In this area, Dull House appears to be way behind Comcast and Insight.

Steve

Steve,
You're experiences with darkhouse are actually better then mine. My experience has alway been make the appointment and then set glued to the phone. Don't dare go to the bathroom, the mailbox or the backyard for 10 seconds without the phone. Because if you miss the call you've spent a afternoon, evening, Saturday etc setting by the phone for nothing. The appointment is cancelled and the installer WILL NOT stop by the house.

The typical call to report a problem is similar. "My cable is out all I get is snow." "Is the TV plugged in?" I don't make this up and it matches my experience with cable companies in other areas. They had a monopoly for so long they just quit trying.

I've also never seen a single piece of cable company supplied equipment that didn't just scream that low cost was the overiding design factor. Maybe CableCard will change this but I doubt it. As long as the picture is ok on a 19" portable the cable company thinks they have done their job.

If I can ever site a dish in amongst my trees the cable is gone.

Is anyone having problems receiving WFYI or WTBU?

I live in Noblesville (SR37 & 141st) and WFYI signal is very weak, too weak for my Samsung SIRT-451 to lock in the signal. WRTV is at the same compass orientation and I get it fine.

What is the scoop with WTBU? I get no hint of a signal from it.

PS> I have a rooftop antenna in my attic...

Thanks in advance.

I'm looking for a little help on the west side. I have been getting a strange artifact while watching HD channels and am not sure what could be causing the problem. It is a slight red pixelation that presents itself only on Digital channels. I had the TV repair guy out and he said it was a problem with my receiver and not the TV. I need to find out if that is the case or if the TV has something wrong with it.

What I'm looking for is someone that would be willing to swap HD receivers for a few hours. I want to try a different receiver in my home and then see if my receiver has the same problem at another persons house. This way I can find out for sure the if the problem follows the receiver. I would guess the whole thing would take maybe a couple of hours.

Originally posted by mjrichar
Is anyone having problems receiving WFYI or WTBU?

I live in Noblesville (SR37 & 141st) and WFYI signal is very weak, too weak for my Samsung SIRT-451 to lock in the signal. WRTV is at the same compass orientation and I get it fine.

What is the scoop with WTBU? I get no hint of a signal from it.

PS> I have a rooftop antenna in my attic...

Thanks in advance.

I've watched WFYI-DT a few times this week, and as I'm typing this reply, and their signal appears to be as it normally is, good, but not as strong as the others from the antenna farm. WFYI-DT is not as powerful as the other DTVs on UHF from that location, plus WFYI-DT does utilize a directional antenna, which does not favor your direction. The least amount of signal is radiated to the northeast to help offset the short spacing between WFYI-DT 21 and analog station WPTA-21, Fort Wayne. WFYI's stats are available here http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=41397

Several months ago WTBU was sold to Daystar, a religious broadcasting group out of Texas. The analog on ch. 69 is now WDTI while the digital, assigned to ch. 44, is not yet on the air. I've asked several local engineers about the status of this channel but no one seems to know..........

While we're on the subject of PBS stations, I recently spoke to the CE at WIPB, Muncie. Due to the state's budget deficit two years ago, the state froze the funds that had previously been appropriated to build WIPB-DT 52. The station is currently attempting to secure the needed funds through other means. The project has been completely approved by the FCC, which does include a new transmitter site and a new 800 foot tower. If all goes well in the next month or so, the station might be on the air by August/September.

Steve

Originally posted by Jonmx
Does Insight in Bloomington carry Fox in HD? I only have analog cable now but with my QAM turner get all the unscrambled HD signals. I get two PBS channels, ABC, NBC, and CBS, but no Fox. Insight should provide Fox unscrambled if they provide it. Only get PBS OTA. The OTA reception bites on the southside of Bloomington.

Yes, Insight does carry WXIN Fox 59 in HD in the Bloomington market. Channel number is 767. Other locals include WISH (CBS) WRTV (ABC), WTHR (NBC) and WTIU (PBS). Another poster said we should see WTTV (WB) in about a month.

Other HD includes HDNet, HDNet Movies, Universal HD, ESPN. Some of those are in an extra cost package, but I don't remember which.

HBO and Showtime in HD if you are a subscriber to that particular premium channel.

Originally posted by woverman
Yes, Insight does carry WXIN Fox 59 in HD in the Bloomington market. Channel number is 767. Other locals include WISH (CBS) WRTV (ABC), WTHR (NBC) and WTIU (PBS). Another poster said we should see WTTV (WB) in about a month.

Other HD includes HDNet, HDNet Movies, Universal HD, ESPN. Some of those are in an extra cost package, but I don't remember which.

HBO and Showtime in HD if you are a subscriber to that particular premium channel.

In his original post, Jonmx said "with my QAM turner get all the unscrambled HD signals. I get two PBS channels, ABC, NBC, and CBS, but no Fox."

So while Insight clearly offers it in its Insight Digital with DVR & HDTV for a mere $12.95 a month, I want to know if the channels you discuss above are part of this subscription digital package, or are coming in unscrambled and can be received with a QAM tuner.

I hate to buy the QAM set-top box and find it doesn't receive FOX from Insight.

Thanks for any FOX insight (what a terrible pun....) from anybody in this forum.

Nat Hill IV

fgr41, I sent you a PM. Thanks. Steve

Nat....Right now I am still on regular cable getting the HDTV channels, so the channels I get are unscrambled channels via qam tuner. Insight does offer Fox, but apparently they are scrambling it or my qam tuner on my Sony is not finding it for some reason. I am switching over to digital, but Insight is currently out of both cable cards and their PVR/HDTV set top boxes (I am getting one of each). You need to order this month if you want free installation though.

It is my understanding if Insight is scrambling Fox, they are not suppose to be unless there is some technicality on how far their OTA channel is from Bloomington.

Originally posted by Jonmx
Nat....Right now I am still on regular cable getting the HDTV channels, so the channels I get are unscrambled channels via qam tuner. Insight does offer Fox, but apparently they are scrambling it or my qam tuner on my Sony is not finding it for some reason. I am switching over to digital, but Insight is currently out of both cable cards and their PVR/HDTV set top boxes (I am getting one of each). You need to order this month if you want free installation though.

It is my understanding if Insight is scrambling Fox, they are not supposed to be unless there is some technicality on how far their OTA channel is from Bloomington.

Wonderful information! You have answered my question perfectly.
I can tell you this without reservation. There is a "tower farm" on the North East Side of Indy. 6, 8, 13, 20, and 59 (and their digital counterparts) all broadcast from there. Channel 59's tower is just a tad closer to Bloomington than either 6 or 8.
So if Insight is scrambling FOX, for whatever reason, I would say there is no justification for it. I guess it is possible the problem lies with your Sony, but somehow I doubt it.
I'm really not interested in paying for extra digital channels, and am worried television would take over my life if I could capture HDTV on a hard drive. I want Insight to simply give me what they're supposed to.
I am amazed that they're out of both cable cards and PVR/HDTV set top boxes. They're going to lose a LOT of money on that, as I find their rental fees pretty steep.
(As a side note, I have their regular digital box, and I find the reception degraded considerably when compared to straight cable. I finally unhooked it and need to take it back. May be related to a cheap RF transmitter in the box, but even composite video coming out is a lot worse than just running the cable into my TVs.)
I digress...
Thanks again for the information!

Nat Hill IV

nathill,
Your comment on regular digital cable quality matches every one I've ever seen or read comment on. Seems like the cable companies in general latched onto digital as a way to jam more channels in and cranked the bitrate way down to maximize the number. It always seems a bit washed out and lacking in depth.

I've stuck with analog cable and OTA HD as a result.

Originally posted by Les Auber
nathill,
Your comment on regular digital cable quality matches every one I've ever seen or read comment on. Seems like the cable companies in general latched onto digital as a way to jam more channels in and cranked the bitrate way down to maximize the number. It always seems a bit washed out and lacking in depth.

I've stuck with analog cable and OTA HD as a result.

That's exactly where I am at the moment (analog cable and OTA HD) for the reasons you mentioned.
My son is in a bit of a jam, as he would love to have friends over for the superbowl, and his OTA reception of FOX is not reliable.
If we can get him fixed up with QAM, I'm in hopes it will be good enogh to impress his friends.
Time will tell!
Nat

It looks like we've been able to come up with a set of equipment upgrades and setups that allows for auto-switching between stereo and 5.1 surround. It's based on the metadata that CBS started sending at the first of the year, so it'll even switch back and forth between the CBS program content and the CBS commercials and promos. It also appears to switch correctly between network content and local content.

BIG step forward for consistency!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
It looks like we've been able to come up with a set of equipment upgrades and setups that allows for auto-switching between stereo and 5.1 surround. It's based on the metadata that CBS started sending at the first of the year, so it'll even switch back and forth between the CBS program content and the CBS commercials and promos. It also appears to switch correctly between network content and local content.

I just noticed it tonight on CSI. Good deal. Only drawback I noticed was a second or so "hiccup" when switching to and from surround. The severity of this is probably more dependent on the receiver (and mine isn't very high end).

Another job well done, Tom!

Ken

Hey Tom,
Maybe you could let the people at WANE know what you did. Sounds like you got the DD5.1 thing worked out. Cool! Every once in a while our CBS affiliate will pass along the 5.1, but its not very often.

The "hiccup" may be receiver-dependent, or it may have been one of the few manual switches or settings changes I did in the first 20 minutes or so.

Tom

Is it just me or has the WISH-DT 8.3 Radar been off the air?

Originally posted by Les Auber
Is it just me or has the WISH-DT 8.3 Radar been off the air?

Les,

I am receiving it right now (Friday, 6:46 p.m.).

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. Knowing it was on helped. Turns out to be a weird interaction between that sub-channel and my MyHD tuner card.

Originally posted by Tom Weber
It looks like we've been able to come up with a set of equipment upgrades and setups that allows for auto-switching between stereo and 5.1 surround. It's based on the metadata that CBS started sending at the first of the year, so it'll even switch back and forth between the CBS program content and the CBS commercials and promos. It also appears to switch correctly between network content and local content.

BIG step forward for consistency!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I wanted to ask... this Thursday, the volume on CSI kept getting loud and then quiet. I kept having to adjust the volume on my TV when watching it. Was this related to the new equipment?

Anyone know if WTHI in Terre Haute has their HD board fixed so that we can watch the Colts/Pats in HD?

My sister wants my whole family to come to her house in Terre Haute, but I'm afraid it won't be in HD there... so I'd really like to stay in Indy and watch it on WISH.

I don't think my family would be too understanding though, so I'm probably stuck.

WHY DOES MY WHOL FAMILY HAVE TO LIVE IN TERRE HAUTE!??!?!

Originally posted by jasonblair
Anyone know if WTHI in Terre Haute has their HD board fixed so that we can watch the Colts/Pats in HD?

My sister wants my whole family to come to her house in Terre Haute, but I'm afraid it won't be in HD there... so I'd really like to stay in Indy and watch it on WISH.

I don't think my family would be too understanding though, so I'm probably stuck.

WHY DOES MY WHOL FAMILY HAVE TO LIVE IN TERRE HAUTE!??!?!

Yes, the board is fixed. The Colts/Pats will be in HD on Sunday.

My saga with Bright House continues and the plot thickens.......I'm certainly thankful this company is not responsible for my electric and phone service. I'm now beyond being upset with them. I'm now laughing and actually feeling sorry for Bright House.

After 3 service calls to exchange the digital cable box for the digital cable box/HD DVR combination unit, my service is STILL NOT RIGHT. Yesterday, for the second time, the installer came to my house with the DVR unit while I was at work and exchanged the units. When I got home later in the afternoon I was able to work the DVR but then I realized that most of the HD channels were now coming up "Not Authorized." I called the office and explained the situation. At 5:30 p.m. the installer is back and after contacting the office he finally gets the HD channels programmed in the new unit. Now this morning when I tried to use the DVR the screen is telling me I'm "Not Authorized" for the DVR service and that I need to call the office to order the service!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? This is one pathetic company.

Steve

And people wonder why I put up with the sometime vageries of Earthlink DSL. If brighthouse can't get their core TV business right how will they ever manage a computer network?

So far, knock on wood, the analog is pretty reliable. It typically only goes out when it storms etc. Then again isn't that what brighthouse says about DBS?

Well, I don't have a tuner. All I have is Time Warner Cable so I won't be able to enjoy it. Im watching the Eagles and Vikings now. While the FOX NFL program says broadcasted in 720p with 5.1 sound, Im watching it in SD. DAMN LOCAL STATIONS!! Why don't they get their equipment updated!!

I saw a nice piece of advertising at the local Circuit City. Enjoy every TD (touchdown) in HD - Time Warner Cable. Is this considered false advertising since the local stations dont pass their HD signals along? heh. :rolleyes:



Originally posted by CCsoftball7
Yes, the board is fixed. The Colts/Pats will be in HD on Sunday.

Originally posted by fgr41
I'm looking for a little help on the west side. I have been getting a strange artifact while watching HD channels and am not sure what could be causing the problem. It is a slight red pixelation that presents itself only on Digital channels. I had the TV repair guy out and he said it was a problem with my receiver and not the TV. I need to find out if that is the case or if the TV has something wrong with it.
I have a similar problem: see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492471) and see if it's the same thing you describe.

Grewolf says it's my DVI cable. I haven't had a chance to replace it yet, but for now I'm back on component cables and don't have the problem.

Are you by any chance using DVI or HDMI between your tuner and TV? (Hadn't talked about HDMI, but I understand it's just DVI with a redesigned connector with extra wires for audio, so I presume it could suffer from the same issue.)

I really wish that WISH-DT was not on channel 9. I'm only about 6 miles directly north of the tower farm and have reception in the 90s on all the other channels but about 60 on WISH-DT. Breaks up way more than I wish it did. Any ideas? I'm using the Jensen TV920 indoor antenna.

NickIndy,
Is it stable at 60 or does it bounce up and down when you get the breakups?

Originally posted by Les Auber
NickIndy,
Is it stable at 60 or does it bounce up and down when you get the breakups?

It isn't stable at 60. Sometimes it bounces as high as 71 and as low as in the 30s.

You might be getting multipath interference then. Especially if it breaks up when it's bouncing. A different antenna location or orientation might help.

You might also have to try a more directional antenna though I have no idea how directional your Jensen is. More directional allows you to tune out the reflected signal causing the multipath. I had trouble with this and it took a bit of trial and error to find the best location and aiming.

Another possibility though it doesn't sound like it is to strong a signal overloading the input stage of your receiver. There are attenuators for this. You're close enough to the transmitter that this could happen. I'm far enough out that I've never experienced it so don't know the symptoms.

It doesn't sound like you'd be in a null of the tranmitter signal since everything else is fine.

One other thought. The Jensen isn't designed to reject VHF is it? I get WISH-DT fine on a small UHF double bow tie antenna so some UHF antennas do fine. The only thought might be is some are designed to reject some other frequencies like FM and maybe VHF.

Hello everyone. I am new to HDTV as of today. I am located on the northeast side of Indy. I am trying to pick up signals OTA with amplified rabbit ears in my basement (don't laugh). All of the channels come in pretty good at 75% on the signal bar, with the exception of WISH, which has no signal at all. I browsed through the forum and saw that WISH has a less powerful signal than the other stations, but it has a tower pretty close to me.

Is WISH usually the hardest channel to get locally, and am I being overly optimistic at trying to get it with an antenna in my basement?

Thanks,
Eric

Eric,
I get WISH-DT here on the far west side at 95-100%. Maybe the radiation pattern from the tower is directed this way. Also remember WISH is VHF so if your antenna won't pick this up it might give you nothing. Just not sure.

If you're reasonably close to the towers rabbit ears should work fine though I'd try and get out of the basement. Moving my little RS double bow tie to the attic made a big difference from in the living room.

Originally posted by NickIndy
I really wish that WISH-DT was not on channel 9. I'm only about 6 miles directly north of the tower farm and have reception in the 90s on all the other channels but about 60 on WISH-DT. Breaks up way more than I wish it did. Any ideas? I'm using the Jensen TV920 indoor antenna.

I'm on the westside and WISH is the only station that has NEVER (and I mean NEVER) had any reception problems with. I wish the other channels were on VHF channels. Channel 13-1 comes in the worst. My tuner says 90% strength, and then it just drops out a second here, a second there. 59-1 does it to a lesser extent. I get 23-1 if I adjust my antenna, and 4-1 doesn't come in at all.

Whatever WISH does, the others need to do too....

What makes no sense is that WTHR will be fine for a week and then all of a sudden, it's unwatchable, even when I adjust the attenna. Then a few hours later, it starts working again.

People tell me all kinds of things, but I think it's interference from the airport.

Thanks Les. I will check into the antenna, and try to get it moved out of the basement as well. Eric

Originally posted by goldrich
My saga with Bright House continues and the plot thickens.......I'm certainly thankful this company is not responsible for my electric and phone service. I'm now beyond being upset with them. I'm now laughing and actually feeling sorry for Bright House.

After 3 service calls to exchange the digital cable box for the digital cable box/HD DVR combination unit, my service is STILL NOT RIGHT. Yesterday, for the second time, the installer came to my house with the DVR unit while I was at work and exchanged the units. When I got home later in the afternoon I was able to work the DVR but then I realized that most of the HD channels were now coming up "Not Authorized." I called the office and explained the situation. At 5:30 p.m. the installer is back and after contacting the office he finally gets the HD channels programmed in the new unit. Now this morning when I tried to use the DVR the screen is telling me I'm "Not Authorized" for the DVR service and that I need to call the office to order the service!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? This is one pathetic company.

Steve

Steve,
A similar thing happened to my DVR when they installed it. Fortunately my installer was on top of the situation and he had to call back to the office twice to get the dvr part turned on. He stated that the office has to edit the account to get the DVR part added correctly. It sure seems like they ought to be able to figure out how to do this by now.

One thing that I am a little mystified by is that they didn't leave an owners / instruction manual for the 3300. They did leave a manual for the remote. I am still trying to figure out how big the hard drive is. The installer said that it has 2 hard drives... I hope that is the case. I think one
of the 30 setup screens may have it, but haven't figured it out yet.

I hope you get these folks to set you up right soon. I do like the box so far.
It still suffers from the lack of the local channels, though.

Jim

Originally posted by bigjims_hdtv
Steve,
A similar thing happened to my DVR when they installed it. Fortunately my installer was on top of the situation and he had to call back to the office twice to get the dvr part turned on. He stated that the office has to edit the account to get the DVR part added correctly. It sure seems like they ought to be able to figure out how to do this by now.

One thing that I am a little mystified by is that they didn't leave an owners / instruction manual for the 3300. They did leave a manual for the remote. I am still trying to figure out how big the hard drive is. The installer said that it has 2 hard drives... I hope that is the case. I think one
of the 30 setup screens may have it, but haven't figured it out yet.

I hope you get these folks to set you up right soon. I do like the box so far.
It still suffers from the lack of the local channels, though.

Jim

Jim,

Sunday afternoon, just before the Colts game I tried the DVR again and this time it worked! So far it seems to be working very well. It is so simple to record shows and the HD PQ is great! I received the 8300 model and the installer did leave a couple of manuals to assist. The total recording time in HD is still a mystery to me. That info doesn't seem to be in any of the manuals. Check out the posts relating to the 8300 here at AVS Forum in the "HDTV Recorders & Players" section.

I did hear that the GM at WRTV and the GM at Indy/Carmel Bright House are meeting over lunch sometime this week. Maybe they'll be able to come to terms so we can watch WRTV-DT via cable. It would be nice to be able to record tomorrow's presidential inauguration in HD from ABC and then be able to watch parts of it in the evening after work.

Steve

Where can I get a channel master 4228 in indy?

Originally posted by jarhead77
Where can I get a channel master 4228 in indy?
You can get a Winegard HD8200P or HD7084P in Bloomington at Stansifer's Radio. I'll bet either is just as good as the Channel Master. Plus, they're good guys at Stansifer's!
Nat

So, I live in Bloomington, okay actually on the elletsville/bloomington line. I'm wondering if I'd be able to get any decent reception via OTA. I like Insight, but I'm starting to get tired of paying a lot for analog channels I dont watch. Has anyone had luck getting Indy channels OTA in Bloomington (north bloomington). Also, what kind of antenna am I looking at to do this? Would it have to be a huge one? do you think it could live in my attic?

I guess this could be moot though, if DirectTV ends up doing the top 30 markets in HD this summer, since indy is #28! WOO HOO!
-s

Originally posted by MassNerder
So, I live in Bloomington, okay actually on the elletsville/bloomington line. I'm wondering if I'd be able to get any decent reception via OTA. I like Insight, but I'm starting to get tired of paying a lot for analog channels I don't watch. Has anyone had luck getting Indy channels OTA in Bloomington (north bloomington). Also, what kind of antenna am I looking at to do this? Would it have to be a huge one? do you think it could live in my attic?

I guess this could be moot though, if DirectTV ends up doing the top 30 markets in HD this summer, since indy is #28! WOO HOO!
-s

I live one mile north of the Cascades golf course in Bloomington. I use the Winegard HD7084P for its sensitivity and highly directional patterns, and a low noise Winegard tower mounted amp. Digital set top box is Samsung SIR-T151, with SIR-T451 on order in an attempt to get the free QAM channels from the cable company as a back up.
I can get the digital equivalents of channels 4, 6, 8, 13, 20, 30, 42 and 59 and digital 64 which is an interesting mixture of infomercials and religious stuff. My reception is basically flawless 100% of the time unless there is heavy rain. I think I get more pixelation broadcast from the stations themselves than I do from my system.
It hasn't been easy. I had to move my antenna all over my property to get get good reception due to power line issues, but once I found a sweet spot, I was good to go.
I ended up with my antenna right below a power line, which probably won't win me any safety awards, but you gotta' do what you gotta' do. The antenna is only about 15 feet above the ground.
Watched both football games yesterday in HD, and sort of felt like I was stealing something since I didn't have to pay anybody for the perfect HDTV pictures. Super bowl comin' up!
If you're willing to work at it, I'll bet you can get the same stations and might not need as much equipment depending on how high your ground is and how many power lines are around your property.
Understand that everything I have written above is in reference to digital signals. Once you've seen digital pictures, you won't be 100% happy with OTA or cable analog, mostly because digital is simply better, but also because your antenna won't receive analog channels nearly as well as their digital counterparts. 59 comes to mind as a good example. Good luck!
Nat

Does anybody who really understands this stuff have an explanation for the horrible picture I got yesterday on channel 25's (Channel 6) digital broadcast of the Buick Invitiational?
It reminded me of my Old Atari 800 in block graphics mode. Literally could not read the smaller graphics. I did a side by side with the analog Channel 6, and as poor as it was, the analog looked better than the digital version.
The subchannel that shows Channel 6 news looked much better than this live sporting event.
What is the deal here? I find digital broadcasts in general better than their analog counterparts about 99% of the time, and it seems to me that channel 6 is usually the 1% that is worse, especially with sports (not counting their beautiful HDTV broadcasts).
Nat

Has anyone noticed a significant audio loudness difference between WTHR DT and other DT's? I've been watching Las Vegas and Medium.. and if i switch to another DT, i'm blown away. Even the local commercials are louder. Also.. any word on when the lip sync will go away? Info?

Hello Mass,

I live west of you in Spencer, and I get all the stations that Nat receives pluse 2, 20, and 38 from Terre Haute, 22 from Vincennes, and 16 from Olney Illinois. A good UHF and an OK Vhf antenna, Rotor and an amplifier will serve you good. I am having my UHF upgraded next week, and a new amp put up on the tower.

Randy

Originally posted by bradyusi
Has anyone noticed a significant audio loudness difference between WTHR DT and other DT's? I've been watching Las Vegas and Medium.. and if i switch to another DT, i'm blown away. Even the local commercials are louder. Also.. any word on when the lip sync will go away? Info?

The lipsync was horrible last night at the start of Las Vegas. It was off by about 2 seconds. They slowly corrected it through out the show to where it was only off by a few frames.

According to their engineer they are implementing DD5.1 this month and hopefully it will take care of these problems. They fix it and then a week later it is bad again!

Their sound is also quit a bit lower then the other stations.

We've noticed something about lip-sync on our Sony DTV sets with built-in tuners which I do not think applies to your WTHR situation but thought was interesting.

This set like most others has the channel up/down feature and you can go up, up, up or down, down, down, etc. to surf channels besides directly entering numbers.

When you go up from NTSC 16.0 to HD 16.1 the lip sync is okay but from 16.1 to SD 16.2 the lip sync is off.

Approaching from the opposite direction you can scan from NTSC 22.0 to SD 16.2 and the lip sync is right on.

The observation: the Sony set's ATSC tuner/decoder outputs proper lip sync or not depending upon how changing channels and not how the station is sending.

And we have seen this only on our four Sony TV sets, but not on our four RCA nor two Panasonic stbs nor two Harris ATSC demods.

I am in the need of some help. My bro-in-law has a HDTV that is giving him fits and we need a pro to give us some advice. The TV is a 4 yr old Zenith HDready and keeps changing from 4:3 to 16:9 and back again. There is also a convergence issue that we don't know if it is beyond hope. Can anyone give me Ken's contact info so we can figure out if it can be tweaked or if it should be scraped?

Thanks

Living north of Terre Haute choices for HDTV has been limited to WTHI. TWO and BAK continue to show a SD signal only and from reading people here it will be a long time or never before they broadcast anything in HD. That it why this forum is great. Someone had mentioned getting a partial signal 41-1 and wasn't sure what it was. Turns out after reprogramming my box I was able to get NBC 15 out of Champaign, Illinois and they are showing HD content. So it's a happy day for me as it turned out to be just the excuse I needed to at least up grade my antenna somewhat. Ordered the Winegard Square Shooter last night to replace the Zen Silver Sensor I had perched in the garage. Will let you know how it turns out since some people have or know family/friends in the Clinton area.

John

Originally posted by RWB
Living north of Terre Haute choices for HDTV has been limited to WTHI. TWO and BAK continue to show a SD signal only and from reading people here it will be a long time or never before they broadcast anything in HD. That it why this forum is great. Someone had mentioned getting a partial signal 41-1 and wasn't sure what it was. Turns out after reprogramming my box I was able to get NBC 15 out of Champaign, Illinois and they are showing HD content. So it's a happy day for me as it turned out to be just the excuse I needed to at least up grade my antenna somewhat. Ordered the Winegard Square Shooter last night to replace the Zen Silver Sensor I had perched in the garage. Will let you know how it turns out since some people have or know family/friends in the Clinton area.

John

Glad to see someone is blessed with NBC in the valley. :)

Hi All,

I currently receive HD via comcast broadcast. Is anybody here suscribed to VOOM and is it really worth it?

Thanks,
Jorge

Originally posted by jcamber
Hi All,

I currently receive HD via comcast broadcast. Is anybody here suscribed to VOOM and is it really worth it?

Thanks,
Jorge

VOOM has been sold. Count on it going away. For more information read this thread.


Nevermind apparently I'm not allowed to post links.

Chack AVS HDTV Hardware for thread.

Originally posted by jcamber
Hi All,

I currently receive HD via comcast broadcast. Is anybody here suscribed to VOOM and is it really worth it?

Thanks,
Jorge

I've got Voom. It's great, but their satellite was just bought by EchoStar (Dish Network). It's unclear how much longer Voom will be operating. Days? Weeks?

One rumor is that they will cease broadcasting on Jan. 31. But nobody knows for sure.

Hey Tom Weber, or anyone else here who may know...


What's the story on Nicole Manske at WISH TV? SHE'S HOT!!!

Is she single? Nice? Does she go out on the town at all?


(I know... REALLY off topic... but hey)