I concur. Here you go: http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1782313

I wish you the best of luck.

Although her WISH bio doesn't say, she was apparently a semifinalist (http://www.tftj.com/Teen/USA/04States/IL/a_IL.htm) in the 1998 Miss Teen USA contest.

The thrill of Victory and the Agony of defeat. Well that just about covers my experience over the weekend with my new Winegard Square Shooter. A little background first. I live about 12 miles north of Terre Haute and have been putting off putting up an outside antenna until at least two stations were broadcasting things in HD. At this point only WTHI (CBS) has come to our rescue. The other two local affiliates NBC and FOX (ran by the same company) have not come around and pobably won't. AFter reading someone else was getting a signal from the NBC affiliate in Champaigne Illinois I had to play around with the Zenith Silver Sensor I have been using. Took it outside on an upper deck and sure as heck I was getting it and they were broadcasting HD. I knew at this point I had to step up.

My head told me "you know you're deep fringe and the CM 4228 is your best option" however the other voice said " forget deep fringe, the wife will put you in the deep freeze if it doesn't please the eye". So, hello Square Shooter. I will say this, if I was fortunate to live closer to a number of towers I'd be beaming like a cat. The SS for what it is designed for is a very nice and nice looking piece of equipment.

Saturday I attach the Shooter to my deck and connect all the leads. My biggest hope is picking up WTIU though I know its out of my range (between 65-70 miles). I point the Shooter and the Terre Haute stations are beaming in strong, but there is WTIU mocking me with that green lock on light blinking ever so slowy (lol). After playing with elevation, turning it this way and that way, I finally give up and focus on NBC out of Illinois. So I turn it a full 180 and NBC is locked on and all three of the THaute stations are still coming in strong. The WTIU station is still trying to lock on but just not there. I try a new scan and the STB is trying to lock on several stations out of Illinois but once again just out of my reach.

Sunday morning 7am its time to try it again after being hit by reality last night. I really didn't expect better but you always hope. Ok lets power this thing on and see if at least the Illinois station is still coming in strong. All is good, there she is, channel 15 and at least I can get NBC in hi-def. Knowing how Murphy's Law seems to land in my front yard I figure I better check CBS (WTHI 24-1) before I get too happy. WHOA!!! WHAT is THIS after hitting the next channel button....17-1 and 17-2 appear. A religious program is on my screen and its in digital. For some reason I'm getting a station out of Marion Illinois. Next channel I'm getting 17-2 WAND (ABC) out of Decatur Illinois. As I go up the dial, station after station is trying to come in. Finally I'm heading toward 14-1 my Holy Grail. In an instant 30-1, 30-2 appear on the screen and there it is Mary Lou Retton with PBS HD stamped across her face. Yes I've made it to the mountain top and pretty darn proud of myself....

Sunday, same day, less than an hour later.....Every hard to reach channel I was getting is gone and all that is left is that damn green light blinking, blinking, blinking as I spiral into the Madness which is OTA HD....oh the Humanity.......

WTHR seems to be broadcasting DD5.1 now!

Crossing Jordan was in 5.1 last night but appeared to be 5 channel stereo.

Originally posted by Ziuck
WTHR seems to be broadcasting DD5.1 now!

Crossing Jordan was in 5.1 last night but appeared to be 5 channel stereo.

Saturday night I noticed that my audio amplifier was indicating dolby digital while watching "Law & Order: SVU." During commercials and local breaks it was switching back to 2 channel stereo. The only negative I noticed was that the DD 5.1 was considerably louder than the 2.0 and I had to keep adjusting the volume level. An engineer told me before Christmas that they would be installing new equipment to accomodate DD 5.1, so it seems that it is in but maybe they are still finalizing and tweaking the setup.

Yesterday I received a reply from Steve Hicks at WTHR regarding the off and on situation with lip sync problems during NBC HD programs. Apparently NBC is aware of the problem but has yet to offer a permanent fix for it. It sounds as if the network is leaving it up the local station to make the necessary corrections to sync the audio/video feed.....

Steve

Originally posted by RWB
The thrill of Victory and the Agony of defeat........................

.........Every hard to reach channel I was getting is gone and all that is left is that damn green light blinking, blinking, blinking as I spiral into the Madness which is OTA HD....oh the Humanity.......

The "Madness" is not just OTA HD, it is TV reception in general. I would say that with a good outside antenna you should be able to receive WICD-DT on a fairly regular basis. I plugged in some latitude and longitude numbers for Clinton, IN at this website
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp and it indicates you are approximately 40 miles from the WICD-DT 41 (15-1) tower, east of Champaign. At the same time, it looks like you are around 28 miles from the WTWO and WBAK towers south of Terre Haute, and 12 miles from WTHI-DT, as this station is currently using the FM tower at the downtown studios.

I am 94 miles from the WICD-DT tower, and at 7:15 p.m. I have this station locked in on my LG receiver, thanks to some nicely enhanced tropspheric conditions at the moment. At 94 miles there is no way I have line-of-sight reception from the station, so the atmosphere is bending/reflecting the signal and allowing me to see it for the moment. In your case, at 40 miles, with a good high-gain antenna, especially outside, I'd think that you would be able to see this station most of the time. Meanwhile, the Indy stations appear to be around 67 miles, which is beyond line-of-sight reception. WTIU-DT, Bloomington, is 60 miles so that was pretty good if you picked it up with your Square Shooter.

Steve

So do you think with the right antenna, my sister and her husband could pick up that NBC HD station out of Champaign? They are near Riley (about 1 mile south of Exit 11 on Interstate 70 - Behind Maryland Church.)

They already get WTHI OTA and ABC HD on DirecTV.

The antenna they are currently using is the one that the DirecTV guy used when he installed their HD dish... it's not that hot.

What antenna and height do you think they'd need to get the Champaign channel? Or would they have a better shot at getting WTHR? (Heck... WTHR is unstable for me and I live in Marion county!)

Steve, actually I'm getting a stronger signal from WICD than BAK and have not experienced any kind of drop outs at all. What kills me is to have to go this route when WTWO (NBC) is just down the road.

The conditions were great last night. Between watching the Pacer game and trying to get different stations on the STB this is what was coming in around 8:30pm. 6-1, 6-2 (channel 64), 13-1, 13-2 (sky trax?), 30-1 (yes) and 30-2, 59-1 (Fox). Of course once again they all petered out in this order. Lost 13s, 59, and it seemed 6 and 30 were holding together pretty good for awhile. 6 disappeared and finally there was only so much of a pixelated Fidel Castro I could watch on the WTIU.

Jason, your sister lives about 20 miles south/east of where I live. She may be able to get the Champaign station but I would think she could pickup the Indy stations easier at that distance. Maryland Church huh? Now that is a LARGE church.

Originally posted by jasonblair
So do you think with the right antenna, my sister and her husband could pick up that NBC HD station out of Champaign? They are near Riley (about 1 mile south of Exit 11 on Interstate 70 - Behind Maryland Church.)

They already get WTHI OTA and ABC HD on DirecTV.

The antenna they are currently using is the one that the DirecTV guy used when he installed their HD dish... it's not that hot.

What antenna and height do you think they'd need to get the Champaign channel? Or would they have a better shot at getting WTHR? (Heck... WTHR is unstable for me and I live in Marion county!)

At that distance I'm not sure whether she could receive it on a regular basis, even with a very good antenna setup. Factors would include the terrain around your sister's house (I'm thinking that area is fairly low compared to most of the surrounding land, especially with the Wabash River very close), weather/atmospheric conditions, etc. At that distance it's pretty much trial and error.

According to the FCC, here are the coverage maps for this station. The first link is for the Construction Permit with a non-directional antenna. The second link is for a modification to the CP (recently filed) which includes a request to use a directional antenna. FWIW, I tend to believe that these maps are sometimes a little too generous. At least these maps will give you an idea as to what MIGHT be expected.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT423622.html

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1031586.html

Steve

I'm in North Terre Haute. I have a large directional with rotor and pre-amp. I pick up NBC out of Champaign with no problem. In fact, I get a better signal for that channel than I do for WTHI-DT. I can pickup 6 and 59 HD out of Indy in the evenings. The signal strength can vary on those from evening to evening. On a rare occasion, I can get a signal out of 59 during the day. I no longer check 6 as I get ABC HD on D*.

I've lost track of the rules on Directv and the Natl HD's. How is it someone in Indiana is able to get ABC HD?

I always turn out SOL on these things but ABC and FOX are the two nets that I cannot receive OTA (Bedford).

-AKH

Originally posted by akh
I've lost track of the rules on Directv and the Natl HD's. How is it someone in Indiana is able to get ABC HD?

I always turn out SOL on these things but ABC and FOX are the two nets that I cannot receive OTA (Bedford).

-AKH

Terre Haute and it's DMA have no ABC affiliate. WBAK used to be ABC, but is now a FOX station.

<<< I always turn out SOL on these things but ABC and FOX are the two nets that I cannot receive OTA (Bedford) >>>

Are you getting your signals from Indy or Louisville? My son live south of Bloomington, and his best OTA signals come from Louisville, not Indy, which makes little sense to me.
FOX in Louisville is supposed to go to a million watts in July. That oughta' help you!

Nat

Originally posted by nathill
Are you getting your signals from Indy or Louisville? My son live south of Bloomington, and his best OTA signals come from Louisville, not Indy, which makes little sense to me.
FOX in Louisville is supposed to go to a million watts in July. That oughta' help you!

Nat

It's all about elevation...

Originally posted by nathill
<<< I always turn out SOL on these things but ABC and FOX are the two nets that I cannot receive OTA (Bedford) >>>

Are you getting your signals from Indy or Louisville? My son live south of Bloomington, and his best OTA signals come from Louisville, not Indy, which makes little sense to me.
FOX in Louisville is supposed to go to a million watts in July. That oughta' help you!

Nat

Louisville. NBC and CBS DT are rock solid. WHAS ABC ran a full power test back when ABC had the Superbowl and I was able to get it altho not rock solid like Wave and Wlky. But then, a few hrs on game day doesn't leave much time to make sure I'm operating at full performance or that it wasn't a weather related issue with reception. I also have no way of knowing if it was really a 'full' power test or simply a 'higher' power test.

I have plans to replace my ant, which is on a 40' tower. The wiring and ant have some age on them at this point. I've noticed my analog reception has lost some 'oomph'.

ABC (WRTV) SOMETIMES will come in at night. Nothing I can count on... and we are talking rarely. I can always see signal on the meter but only rarely enough for a lock. It probably doesn't help that I am on a hill but not at the top of the hill. Therefore there are trees and more hill between me and the northern skyline. OTOH, much more wide open facing south.

-AKH

Originally posted by akh
Louisville. NBC and CBS DT are rock solid. WHAS ABC ran a full power test back when ABC had the Superbowl and I was able to get it altho not rock solid like Wave and Wlky. But then, a few hrs on game day doesn't leave much time to make sure I'm operating at full performance or that it wasn't a weather related issue with reception. I also have no way of knowing if it was really a 'full' power test or simply a 'higher' power test.

I have plans to replace my ant, which is on a 40' tower. The wiring and ant have some age on them at this point. I've noticed my analog reception has lost some 'oomph'.

ABC (WRTV) SOMETIMES will come in at night. Nothing I can count on... and we are talking rarely. I can always see signal on the meter but only rarely enough for a lock. It probably doesn't help that I am on a hill but not at the top of the hill. Therefore there are trees and more hill between me and the northern skyline. OTOH, much more wide open facing south.

-AKH

Your situation is very similar to my son's. His line of sight to Louisville is really clear, but he has powerlines across the North side of his property.
Day in and day out he gets ABC better than any other Indy station.
You both ought to be in good shape with Louisville FOX in just a few months.
Good luck with the new antenna. I'll bet it helps.
Nat

i posted a few posts up about putting up a second antenna. it came in the mail today. my question is i noticed how light it was (cm4221). would it be ok to just attach it with a short piece of mast just to get it up and over the peak of my roof and snap it onto the existing clamps(where the existing combo antenna is)? then move the combo(will be vhf only) back down the side about 10 feet away. or should i have a separate mast for each of them. i currently am using one mast to get the combo antenna as high as i can without its weight bending the mast. i really want the 4221 to be on the rotor and the combo(vhf) will be fixed, the only channel i need off it will be channel 8 wishtv. i am hoping this uhf antenna will be atleast as good as the combo i am currently using. i am soo very close to getting all the channels i want but i am holding out so i don't have to buy a preamp.

Originally posted by itsmyforte
i posted a few posts up about putting up a second antenna. it came in the mail today. my question is i noticed how light it was (cm4221). would it be ok to just attach it with a short piece of mast just to get it up and over the peak of my roof and snap it onto the existing clamps(where the existing combo antenna is)? then move the combo(will be vhf only) back down the side about 10 feet away. or should i have a separate mast for each of them. i currently am using one mast to get the combo antenna as high as i can without its weight bending the mast. i really want the 4221 to be on the rotor and the combo(vhf) will be fixed, the only channel i need off it will be channel 8 wishtv. i am hoping this uhf antenna will be atleast as good as the combo i am currently using. i am soo very close to getting all the channels i want but i am holding out so i don't have to buy a preamp.

I'm trying to visualize your proposed setup. If I'm following you correctly, I believe you'll be ok. Yes, the 4221 is quite light and fairly wind-resistant. The heavy part of your setup is the rotor. Just make sure the mast is not overloaded with the weight of the rotor. And if you can get the 4221 high enough to clear the peak of your roof that would be great! From your location, you should get fine reception of the local stations and shouldn't need a preamp for the locals. It looks like you are about the same distance from Trafalgar (WTTV-DT, WIPX-DT) as you are from the Indy "antenna farm." Good luck!

Steve

I think I've tweaked my antenna about as much as I can. The next possibility is to upgrade my STB. Once again I'm only interested in OTA so I guess the question would be does anyone have a certain box they prefer and would it be an improvement over the Sammy SIR-T151 I've had for probably 3 years?

P.S....Best investment so far has been the cheap $8 dollar compass I picked up from Ace Hardware the other day. Still can't pick up the Bloomington stations during the day but having pretty good luck early morning and late evening from the Clinton area.

RWB,
I'm not sure which STB has what in it but I understand the latest generation of 8VSB tuner demodulator chips do a much better job with low strength or multipath signals. Whether this would help you any is hard to tell. If the signal is there possibly. Otherwise it probably not.

Originally posted by RWB
I think I've tweaked my antenna about as much as I can. The next possibility is to upgrade my STB. Once again I'm only interested in OTA so I guess the question would be does anyone have a certain box they prefer and would it be an improvement over the Sammy SIR-T151 I've had for probably 3 years?

P.S....Best investment so far has been the cheap $8 dollar compass I picked up from Ace Hardware the other day. Still can't pick up the Bloomington stations during the day but having pretty good luck early morning and late evening from the Clinton area.

Whatever you do, DO NOT get a Samsung SIR-T351. I have a T151, and it's much better than my newer 351. The 351's a joke (ask the engineers at channel 59).

Nat

ps. agree with you on the compass. They help!

Does anyone know how many of brighthouse's QAM cable channels are unencrypted?

I agree to that a compass is a great starting point. However, don't use it as gospel. Before I ended up at my current fixed antenna location I found that sometimes I could get a better signal aimed a bit away from the tower. It's odd but sometimes the reflection is better then the primary signal. Of course then the other channels sucked which is why I kept experimenting with location. Now I'm pretty much on azimuth for the Indy towers.

Thanks for the tips guys. Wow, must have been some weird happenings in the sky last night. I was picking up all the Indy stations, Bloomington stations, and WAVE 3 (NBC) out of Louisville, KY (probably 160 miles?)

Any news on the WTTV/WTTK upgrades?

Originally posted by RWB
Thanks for the tips guys. Wow, must have been some weird happenings in the sky last night. I was picking up all the Indy stations, Bloomington stations, and WAVE 3 (NBC) out of Louisville, KY (probably 160 miles?)

There was definitly something weird going on. My friend who has a roof top antenna couldn't get the local digital cbs or nbc, but we did get the analog detroit cbs, toledo abc, and a few other really distant tv stations. The antenna was pointed away from those citys. Who knows what we could have picked up if the antenna was pointed in that direction.

Originally posted by RWB
Thanks for the tips guys. Wow, must have been some weird happenings in the sky last night. I was picking up all the Indy stations, Bloomington stations, and WAVE 3 (NBC) out of Louisville, KY (probably 160 miles?)

RWB & Nathill, FWIW, over the past year or so, several of my DXing buddies and I have compared about 12 different STBs side by side and I'm sorry to say that the Samsung SIR T-151 was the worst one out of the bunch at decoding weak OTA signals. I thought it was just the one I owned at the time, so we tried another one and it was just as bad. The other receivers we tested were all better at finding and locking in on the station.

Some of the better ones we've tested include the Zenith HDV420, RCA ATSC11 and Sylvania SRZ3000, with the LG LST-3100A generally quite good, too. A number of AVS Forum posts indicate that the LG LST-4200 is one of the best OTA STBs currently on the market.

And, RWB, yes, tropospheric conditions were certainly elevated last night. I was having problems with my rotor turning :-( , but even with the antennas aimed toward Chicago (northwest) I was still seeing analog stations from Cincinnati, Dayton, Lima, Columbus, Toledo and occasionally Cleveland (ch. 55 & 61). I needed a more precise antenna aim for a chance at decoding any DTVs from those cities.

Steve

Originally posted by NickIndy
Any news on the WTTV/WTTK upgrades?

As of early last week, Rick at WTTV/WTTK said he didn't have any new update for us. Apparently part of the total upgrade project is in the hands of lawyers. :-) Rick said, " I think the lawyers are bogged down with DTV channel election filings." Hopefully we'll hear something new very soon.

FWIW, WRTV-DT has elected to stay with ch. 25 and I found out last week that WTIU-DT (Bloomington) has elected to stay with ch. 14, not analog ch. 30.

Steve

Thanks Steve, just gives me an excuse to get a new toy. However, I'm easy to convince it's the wife who's not in the same ball park. Might have something to do with having one kid in college and the other heading toward Butler next year (ouch).

I was receiving PAX on 63-1 and PAX west on 63-2 last night. Kind of wondering where 63-3 Worship Network and 63-4 Faith Network come from?

The oldest boy is going to help me with a little project. We're going to see if PVC pipe can be used as a mast for the square shooter. If this works I'll try and post pictures.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les Auber
[B]Does anyone know how many of brighthouse's QAM cable channels are unencrypted?

When I had a QAM tuner (I no longer have it) the only channels unencrypted here in Carmel on Brighthouse were WTHR, WISH, and WFYI.
I haven't had this tuner since Nov 04, but the hd lineup has not changed since then.

I didn't include the basic channels which are not encrypted - 2 thru 78.

Jim

Was anyone watching Meet the Press on WTHR's digital channel at about 10:35 am Sunday? The audio from the intended programming cut out, and at a much louder level the audio to Law & Order starts. Video is still Meet the Press. This is the second week in a row this has happened.

Just trying to find out if it's a WTHR issue or if I should complain to my cable company.

Thanks for any help.

Bill

Originally posted by woverman
Was anyone watching Meet the Press on WTHR's digital channel at about 10:35 am Sunday? The audio from the intended programming cut out, and at a much louder level the audio to Law & Order starts. Video is still Meet the Press. This is the second week in a row this has happened.

Just trying to find out if it's a WTHR issue or if I should complain to my cable company.

Thanks for any help.

Bill

It is WTHR. Nearly every day is a new issue with them -- they don't seem to have a very good handle on their digital channel.

Originally posted by IndyJeff
It is WTHR. Nearly every day is a new issue with them -- they don't seem to have a very good handle on their digital channel.


They seem to be the worst station in the area! Your right everyday it is a different issue. Some days it is fine, but those are few and far between.

They must be working in conditions that Careerbuild.com talked about last night!

Thanks Jim.

I have been having trouble with WRTV for a few days now. The sig meter on my STB shows the sig at 92-98 but the station is unlocked. I can't get the signal to lock in unless I change the antenna and drop the sig to 80. This causes a problem because with the adjustment it drops some of the other channels. For now I am just doing with out WRTV.

WTHR had DD5.1 last night but it was messed up again. During Las Vegas it was 5/6 channel stereo, even though it was showing DD5.1. Medium was not in DD at all and was out of sync for the first part of the show.

Monkey's all of 'em.

I'm getting audio pops on WTHR now. Started about 1-2 weeks ago. Has anyone else noticed this? I know they are working on getting DD 5.1 up, but I haven't seen anyone else post about VERY LOUD, VERY BAD pops.

Also, I'm out in Avon and haven't been able to pickup the WB 4.1 or the WISHTV sub channel 8.3 (8.1 and 8.2 come in fine) for a long time. I'm using the Terk HDTVi (Silver sensor knock off with VHF rabbit ears). Would adding an amplifier like a channelmaster help, or is it bad to try and amplify HDTV?

http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/220972-6631-092.html

Steve

Are there market concentration rules in TV Ownership?

Need a little help! (BTW, thanks woverman!)

I recently installed my OTA antenna. The installation isn't complete yet, as I need to get a taller ladder to get the antenna up higher, so I'm sure that will be "some" of my problems.

I currently have the antenna signal combined with the satellite signal using a D920 RCA diplexer and then being separated at the receiver. I'm using a DTC-100 (old school, I know :p). The antenna is a VU-120 XR.

I'm in Bloomington, IN and am trying to get the Indianapolis HD channels. I am currently able to receive Ch 8, CBS, which is the ONLY VHF HD channel coming out of Indianapolis. Without tweaking the pointing and height, I'm getting about a 50 signal strength. Picture looks good, etc...

However, I can't get ABC, NBC, or Fox at all. I can get ABC and NBC in on analog, however, but they're very snowy. The analog versions of those channels are all on VHF, except fox which is on UHF on analog also.

Also, I DO get the local PBS, and pax/worship/etc (WTIU)... channels. Strangely enough, WTIU and pax are on UHF. They don't come in very well, and often pixelate. Those two digital stations are also in a different direction. about 30 degrees east of the indianapolis stations that I want. So I could probably improve those stations reception by reaiming, but I don't care about getting them ;)

Anyway, so it seems that I have a problem with UHF. I'm wondering if the diplexers could be a problem? I'm going to try running a straight through connection tonight, but if that's not it, I don't have a clue to what to look at next, besides getting the antenna up higher.

If you have anything that I might have overlooked, that would be great!

There are market concentration rules, but (obviously) we believe that this proposed transaction meets those rules.

Those rules are also under some review, and are the subject of both some court rulings and possible Congressional rulemaking. In no case, I believe, are the rules proposed to be tightened, the question is whether they can be loosened.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering (and in no way an official spokesperson)

bp787,

I suspect that if you don't already have one, an amplifier is necessary directly after the TV antenna and before the diplexer on the roof. On the other hand, maybe the diplexer handles some of that function, I'll leave that for folks with diplexer experience to chime in on.

The trick may be how to power the separate amplifier (which I suspect you need, being in Bloomington) while still using the diplexer. Again, I need to leave that to folks who know the diplexer setup.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
bp787,

I suspect that if you don't already have one, an amplifier is necessary directly after the TV antenna and before the diplexer on the roof. On the other hand, maybe the diplexer handles some of that function, I'll leave that for folks with diplexer experience to chime in on.

The trick may be how to power the separate amplifier (which I suspect you need, being in Bloomington) while still using the diplexer. Again, I need to leave that to folks who know the diplexer setup.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering


heh, good thing I just bought one! I haven't had a chance to hook it up yet though. The diplexer doesn't do any power amplification that I'm aware of. If anything I would think they could degrade some of the signal... maybe.

thanks for the info!

I think what he was getting at is that if the amplifier that you use is a mast mounted one, the power supply is usually located inside where the antenna wire enters the house. I'm not sure if hooking that up to a line that has been diplexed is a good idea, because the power going back up the line would go to both the satalite and antenna, possibly causing trouble with your satalite. If your going to run a separate line anyways, just use that with your amp.

Ryan

yeah. I'm going to try it with the amp without being diplexed first and see what happens. I need to check the frequencies that the amp works on. If the amp works in the frequency range of the sat signal, then there could easily be a problem.

It is a mast mounted one. Just haven't tried it yet.

Im in the Terre Haute area, and what I want to know is when I flip on my HD Time Warner cable box, when will I be able to view WTHI, WTWO, WXIN, WBAK, etc. in HD? From reading the posts here it sounds like an OTA tuner is the only way to get HD. Why is this? When are these stations going to start sending that HD signal through Time Warner? I know WTWO will probably be a while as they dont even broadcast it ota.

Oh yeah, I love how Time Warner wants to charge $10 to be able to get ESPN HD.. :rolleyes:

Today was the deadline for stations to file with the FCC to specify a channel preference for their final digital channel. I just perused the FCC filings and found these:

Indianapolis/Bloomington
WTIU - 14
WTTV - 48
WISH - 9
WRTV - 25
WTHR - 13
WNDY - 32
WFYI - 21
WXIN - 45
WTTK - 29
WHMB - 16
WCLJ - 42

Lafayette
WLFI - 11

Terre Haute
WTHI - 10
WTWO - 36
WBAK - 39

Steve

Where are these FCC filings? I'd like to check for the Fort Wayne stations.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
Where are these FCC filings? I'd like to check for the Fort Wayne stations.

Ryan,

A friend of mine showed me how to do it. Here are the steps I used.

First go here http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

Then under "Stations Within A Radius" fill in the coordinates for a station in your market. WANE's tower location is 41-5-38N, 85-10-48W. Plug in those numbers and I used 100 km. for the distance, so it will list all TV stations within 100 km. That will lead you to this page....
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=100&dlat2=41&mlat2=05&slat2=38N&dlon2=85&mlon2=10&slon2=48W&size=9

Then click on the call letters (far left column) of the station you want to look up. For WANE it is http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=39270

Then click on Application List, http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=39270

Then the first filing on the list that says "TENDERED FOR FILING" click the blue "application" line and it will bring up a copy of the filing. About half way down the page on the right it will indicate the channel election.
http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101046359&formid=382&fac_num=39270

WANE has chosen ch. 31 for its DTV.

I hope this works for you.

Steve

Originally posted by bp787
Need a little help! (BTW, thanks woverman!)

I recently installed my OTA antenna. The installation isn't complete yet, as I need to get a taller ladder to get the antenna up higher, so I'm sure that will be "some" of my problems.

I currently have the antenna signal combined with the satellite signal using a D920 RCA diplexer and then being separated at the receiver. I'm using a DTC-100 (old school, I know :p). The antenna is a VU-120 XR.

I'm in Bloomington, IN and am trying to get the Indianapolis HD channels. I am currently able to receive Ch 8, CBS, which is the ONLY VHF HD channel coming out of Indianapolis. Without tweaking the pointing and height, I'm getting about a 50 signal strength. Picture looks good, etc...

However, I can't get ABC, NBC, or Fox at all. I can get ABC and NBC in on analog, however, but they're very snowy. The analog versions of those channels are all on VHF, except fox which is on UHF on analog also.

Also, I DO get the local PBS, and pax/worship/etc (WTIU)... channels. Strangely enough, WTIU and pax are on UHF. They don't come in very well, and often pixelate. Those two digital stations are also in a different direction. about 30 degrees east of the indianapolis stations that I want. So I could probably improve those stations reception by reaiming, but I don't care about getting them ;)

Anyway, so it seems that I have a problem with UHF. I'm wondering if the diplexers could be a problem? I'm going to try running a straight through connection tonight, but if that's not it, I don't have a clue to what to look at next, besides getting the antenna up higher.

If you have anything that I might have overlooked, that would be great!

I am NOT an expert, but I do get all of the Indy channels perfectly (from North Bloomington) about 99% of the time, and can tell you this.
UHF digital signals are highly directional. Get off just a few degrees and you're toast. And, I had to move my antenna several times to find a location where all of the stations would come in with no pixels.
I would forget about combining the satellite and OTA signals into one cable. And, I would use only RG-6 for the OTA signal. Getting Indy OTA from Bloomington is not a simple project, and I just don't think it's worth the signal losses involved in combining and then splitting the satellite/OTA signals. Throw in the uncertainties of where your amplifier is, and where your power for it is coming from, and I think it's a very risky proposal.
I have the pre-amp very close to the antenna, and the power supply near the building. Splitters all are AFTER the amp's power supply.
You will have to aim the antenna where it needs to be aimed to get Indy. The fact that you get the Trafalgar stations indicates to me that you're pointed towards Trafalgar, and need to move your antenna more to the North. WTIU will come in best when you point the antenna towards its tower, located in South East Bloomington.
This isn't a simple project. I would recommend that you test, test, and then test some more. Your antenna is supposed to easily get Indianapolis according to Radio Shack. We'll see!
Keep us posted on how things go.
Nat

On the FCC web site. Not easy to find.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm

Fill in just the call sign. ALL CAPS. You may or may not need to append
"-TV" to the call sign. Cllick on the search button. A list will appear
if the FCC is happy with your request. Look in "status date" and
start rummaging through them, dates nearest Feb. 10, 2005 first.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by nathill
I am NOT an expert, but I do get all of the Indy channels perfectly (from North Bloomington) about 99% of the time, and can tell you this.
UHF digital signals are highly directional. Get off just a few degrees and you're toast. And, I had to move my antenna several times to find a location where all of the stations would come in with no pixels.
I would forget about combining the satellite and OTA signals into one cable. And, I would use only RG-6 for the OTA signal. Getting Indy OTA from Bloomington is not a simple project, and I just don't think it's worth the signal losses involved in combining and then splitting the satellite/OTA signals. Throw in the uncertainties of where your amplifier is, and where your power for it is coming from, and I think it's a very risky proposal.
I have the pre-amp very close to the antenna, and the power supply near the building. Splitters all are AFTER the amp's power supply.
You will have to aim the antenna where it needs to be aimed to get Indy. The fact that you get the Trafalgar stations indicates to me that you're pointed towards Trafalgar, and need to move your antenna more to the North. WTIU will come in best when you point the antenna towards its tower, located in South East Bloomington.
This isn't a simple project. I would recommend that you test, test, and then test some more. Your antenna is supposed to easily get Indianapolis according to Radio Shack. We'll see!
Keep us posted on how things go.
Nat

Nat,

Great post, Nat. I was hoping someone from the Bloomington area with first-hand reception experience would help him out.

The only thing I would add, bp787, is that my experience with all-channel antennas is not very good, especially for the UHF channels. I've experimented with a few of these antennas and have found the VHF reception to be pretty good while the UHF reception was usually just fair to quite poor, even for some local Indy stations. If the preamp doesn't help, I'd recommend a separate UHF only antenna for receiving the Indy stations. Good luck and please post your results.

Steve

bp787 and Goldrich;

I found Steve's advice very informative.

<<< I'd recommend a separate UHF only antenna for receiving the Indy stations >>>

This is news to me, but it makes perfect sense. The good news is that it's great information. The bad news is that both bp787 and I have combo antennas. But since my tower hasn't been installed permanently yet, it's not too late to spend more money and perhaps get UPN out of the Anderson area (it comes in once in a great while....)

Nat

ps. Steve, what type of UHF antenna have you found to be the best?

Thanks Steve.

It looks like all the stations in the FW area are going to stay at their current digital channel assignment. Why would a station want to do that, vs. changing back to their analog number?

Ryan

Originally posted by nathill
bp787 and Goldrich;

I found Steve's advice very informative.

<<< I'd recommend a separate UHF only antenna for receiving the Indy stations >>>

This is news to me, but it makes perfect sense. The good news is that it's great information. The bad news is that both bp787 and I have combo antennas. But since my tower hasn't been installed permanently yet, it's not too late to spend more money and perhaps get UPN out of the Anderson area (it comes in once in a great while....)

Nat

ps. Steve, what type of UHF antenna have you found to be the best?

Thanks to all of you! That's the best information i've found yet. It's extrememly difficult to find people from bloomington w/ first hand knowledge and/or find people who actually know this stuff. I'm a noob at antennas, so I'm learning as I go.

I'm asking the same question as nathill. What is the best UHF antenna then? I don't mind spending more money on a decent setup that ensures that I get this all to work.

I will do my testing this saturday/sunday and hopefully find something out.

I did, however, notice that if I put in my exact address, antennaweb.org no longer shows the indy stations as receivable for me. But if I move my location about 1 mile in any direction, it shows them again. So I checked some elevation maps and I'm lower than the surrounding areas. Thus, it may be impossible for me to get anything on UHF here :( I'll keep trying for awhile, but if this keeps up, i may just have to "move" my dish...

thanks guys!

Originally posted by nathill

The fact that you get the Trafalgar stations indicates to me that you're pointed towards Trafalgar, and need to move your antenna more to the North. WTIU will come in best when you point the antenna towards its tower, located in South East Bloomington.


Well, I used a compass (not perfect, but helpfull) to point the antenna at 23 degrees north... I think haha. I'm definitely mis-aimed right now, though. I didn't retighten the mounting bolts and the wind a few nights ago moved the antenna. Definitely pointing towards trafalgar. I'm getting about a constant 80 on those channels... and a 27 on the CBS channel whereas I was getting about 50 or so...

Can't wait for tomorrow when I get to test, test, test, test..... :)

Originally posted by nathill
bp787 and Goldrich;

I found Steve's advice very informative.

<<< I'd recommend a separate UHF only antenna for receiving the Indy stations >>>

This is news to me, but it makes perfect sense. The good news is that it's great information. The bad news is that both bp787 and I have combo antennas. But since my tower hasn't been installed permanently yet, it's not too late to spend more money and perhaps get UPN out of the Anderson area (it comes in once in a great while....)

Nat

ps. Steve, what type of UHF antenna have you found to be the best?

Nat, as we mentioned a couple of months ago, TV reception really comes down to trial and error, and in many cases is related to location, location, location. If you and bp787 are having success with the combo antennas that's great. In most cases, according to personal testing and test results like this http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html , the combo units generally don't have the gain that a good, separate UHF only antenna would have.

This is just me speaking, but some of my recommendations would include the CM 4228, XG91 from Antennas Direct, Funke and Triax. As for a preamp, I would strongly recommend the CM 7775 (UHF only) or the CM 7777 (combo for VHF and UHF).

http://www.funke.nl/prod_files/aerials/225_145002_dc4591_081203_790501450.pdf

http://www.antennasdirect.com/LongRangeAntennas.htm

Hopefully this will give you some ideas. Also check out the great info from posts here.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=381623

Another great site with tons of reception info... http://www.hdtvprimer.com/

bp787, good luck with your tests this weekend.

Steve

It looks like all the stations in the FW area are going to stay at their current digital channel assignment. Why would a station want to do that, vs. changing back to their analog number?

Ryan

Ryan,

Basically, the FCC made it very difficult for stations to go back to their analog channel with digital.

FCC allowed/encouraged/bullied stations into maximizing coverage on their digital channel and have proclaimed that facility "protected."

But a station wanting to move digital to its analog channel is not allowed to increase interference to those "protected" facilities (by more than only a slight amount), meaning power reductions in certain directions (although some of these might disappear if relocated to their analog channel).

And two (or more) stations whose digital operation on their analog channels would mutually interfere have to protect each other (but the FCC won't approve large areas of interference between, even if such stations agree to accepting).

Stations were faced with deciding between the guaranteed coverage area of their current digital channel and any coverage reduction on their analog channel from having to protect nearby digital stations.

Many stations discovered their digital channel afforded better coverage because re-using the analog channel was impeded by protecting already established digital stations or digital stations reverting to former analog channels.

But stations whose analog channel allowed bigger/better coverage for digital than their present digital channel got lucky and elected to revert digital to their analog spectrum (and some stations had no choice in this round of channel elections if one or both of their channels is outside the core or both on low-VHF).

A lot of thought also went into branding by established channel number, but not considered as important because PSIP allows virtual channel numbers (and besides channel numbers are different on cable or satellite and viewers seem to have no problem finding their favorite station).

But in the end, it seems it was really a choice between a "bird in the hand" and a "role of the dice."

I'm sure many stations will regret their decision, either way, but many won't.

They still get to map to their old "channel" like they do now anyway, don't they?

well, no luck. The best i could lock in on was a 40 on the VHF at the antenna's current height. That's without the diplexers in the path. Still none of the UHF signals from indianapolis. The local UHF, I can get at about 55 signal strength. Apart from that, nothin'.

Also, when I add the preamp/amp in, I lose all signal. This is very odd. I already have a transformer on the antenna, so I shouldn't need to use the one that comes with the preamp right? There's nothing in the box that says what the impedance was, but I'm thinking that's my problem right now... but it doesn't matter really...

My real problem is height. So, tomorrow, I'm going higher. Probably up another 10 ft. Have to go get some guy wires, etc.. to do this though and figure out a way to get up on the roof since my roof is STEEP!

I think this may end up being a futile attempt though. I'm definitely going to try and "move" this week. Probably into the chicago DMA. But I need to learn more about the O&O and white area business.

In chicago, I should be able to receive the chicago locals AND the DNS HD feeds correct? I looked at a spot beam map, and I should be within the spot beam for chicago.

As for the white areas, is there a listing of known white areas?

<<< well, no luck. The best i could lock in on was a 40 on the VHF at the antenna's current height. That's without the diplexers in the path. Still none of the UHF signals from indianapolis. The local UHF, I can get at about 55 signal strength. Apart from that, nothin'. >>>

Man, you're breakin' my heart here.
I guess the part that really has me confused is your signal strength of only 55 on the local UHF station. I assume you mean WTIU.
I am not kidding when I tell you that I can get WTIU (with a strong signal level) using a piece of RG-6 hooked up to nothing hanging from the back of the set top box!
I wouldn't think the pre-amp would need a different transformer, but I would go ahead and replace the old one with the new one. The transformers surely have simple connectors for the coax coming from the pre-amp and heading towards the set top box, don't they?
Anyway, I seem to recall one of your earlier posts mentioning that you were sitting pretty low in relation to surrounding hills. I guess that must be the kiss of death and that only more height can help you.
Sorry I can't offer more in the way of suggestions, although I'm still not certain something isn't slightly amiss in the cabling department with your current set-up. New RG-6, new connectors?
WTIU should certainly be stronger than you're getting now....
Good luck (and keep in touch)!
Nat Hill IV
ps. Steve; those UHF antennas you referred me to look more like alien weapons! Thanks for the information. I had not heard of them before.
One of them might help me get UPN (WNDY) out of Anderson.
(Food for thought ---> 72 miles, one million watts- get it sporadically now.....)

Nat,

If I remember correctly, a couple viewers around Spencer have reported receiving WNDY-DT 32, from their tower near the metropolis of Strawtown, NNE of Noblesville. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT616116.html If you draw a straight line between the tower and Bloomington, it looks like downtown Indy (Bank One Tower, etc.) is almost directly in the path. That probably doesn't help the line-of-sight reception.

bp787,

Sorry things didn't go well with your tests this weekend, but I'm with Nat. Something doesn't sound right with your setup. I don't know exactly where you are in the Bloomington area, but you should be able to get a very strong signal from WTIU-DT. Whereas, if you are in a low area, to receive the Indy stations antenna height, a high-gain antenna with very precise aim, preamp and very secure connections with the coaxial cable are going to be a must for your distance. You might review some of these items through this site...
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

Steve

Anyone watch the Grammys tonight? Pretty good picture and sound. However in the opening number when the strobes flashed my picture pixelated. Anyone else or was it a reception problem? This was on WISH 8-1 on OTA.

Originally posted by crawdad62
Anyone watch the Grammys tonight? Pretty good picture and sound. However in the opening number when the strobes flashed my picture pixelated. Anyone else or was it a reception problem? This was on WISH 8-1 on OTA.

Not nearly as bad as the last time. Of course I have a new set and STB since then so I'm not sure whether the improvement was on this end or with the transmission.

Flashy lights cause problems.

-AKH

Originally posted by crawdad62
Anyone watch the Grammys tonight? Pretty good picture and sound. However in the opening number when the strobes flashed my picture pixelated. Anyone else or was it a reception problem? This was on WISH 8-1 on OTA.

I saw the same exact thing. But I think it is a digital issue. Channel 8 does a great job in general with digital schemes.
I am not an electrical engineer, but it is my understanding that digital compression causes problems when scenes change rapidly. Digital compression is based (very loosely stated and perhaps inaccurately) on leaving pixels the same from frame to frame and only addressing pixel changes. If a scene changes totally, every pixel changes and graphics get blocky as a result of bandwidth limits.
It looked to me as if the strobes flashing painted the whole screen white, which then caused the problems of loading in a whole new frame.
I honestly think my eyes can see the difference in 1080i and 720p for this reason. 1080i looks better with PBS scenic slowly changing stuff, while 720p (which clearly isn't as sharp with the scenic stuff) handles rapidly changing scenes (like football close ups) better.
Just my opinion and guess as to what caused the problems...

Nat

Originally posted by George Molnar
A lot of thought also went into branding by established channel number, but not considered as important because PSIP allows virtual channel numbers (and besides channel numbers are different on cable or satellite and viewers seem to have no problem finding their favorite station). Cable has always been a bit funky, usually moving all local TV down in to VHF regardless of where they started. Both major satellite providers map the existing OTA channels for their customer's benefit - still placing all the locals together (as required by the rules).

Poking around the DTV 2nd Report and Order it does appear branding is kept:
paragraph 30
As part of PSIP, a broadcaster’s “major channel number” is its NTSC channel number. This major channel number is the station’s channel identity during and after the transition. Therefore, a station’s channel election decision will have no effect on the assignment of its NTSC channel number as its “major channel number” in PSIP.

JL

Originally posted by ARK27
Im in the Terre Haute area, and what I want to know is when I flip on my HD Time Warner cable box, when will I be able to view WTHI, WTWO, WXIN, WBAK, etc. in HD? From reading the posts here it sounds like an OTA tuner is the only way to get HD. Why is this? When are these stations going to start sending that HD signal through Time Warner? I know WTWO will probably be a while as they dont even broadcast it ota.

WBAK and WTWO will NEVER broadcast in HD. Julie Henricks has told me that if the FCC requires them to star broadcasting in HD, their parent company, Nexstar, will just close the stations down.

Which might be a good thing.

SPEAKING OF WHICH -

Did any of you see that "When Live TV Goes Wrong" (or something like that) on NBC last week?

It was basically a show of local stations across the country when their news broadcasts got screwed up... no audio... wrong video... cameramen drunk on the job... weathermen standing in front of girls in bikinis instead of a national weather map... you get the idea.

Did any of you notice how many times WTWO was on that show? Like 10 times! They had to have more screw ups than any other channel out there...

Just shows you the quality job Nexstar is doing with our NBC station in Terre Haute that DOESN'T EVEN BROADCAST IN STEREO YET!!!!!

Forget HD... how about STEREO?!?!!?

I'm surprised they broadcast in color!

Has this thread died?

Where is everyone?

The thread is alive and kicking...I agree about Terre Haute...I wish they would go out of business as quickly as possible. Then I would be eligible for D* distant networks.

someone try and answer me this... if I move to Kentland, IN (which gets Chicago Locals) will i be able to easily get the NY HD feeds or not? I just want to verify before I do this...

Steve

Last I couldnt pick up WFYI 20.1HD. All the other channels were fine. Any ideas?

Brad

Originally posted by BRADH
Steve

Last I couldnt pick up WFYI 20.1HD. All the other channels were fine. Any ideas?

Brad

I can't get it in Bloomington either. I have never had any trouble with WFYI 20.1HD before, so I would bet good money the problem is on their end.

Nat

Originally posted by BRADH
Steve

Last I couldnt pick up WFYI 20.1HD. All the other channels were fine. Any ideas?

Brad

Hey Brad,

Good to hear from you. A few weeks ago I was wondering if you had moved away from the area as I hadn't seen any posts from you.

I, too, noticed last evening that I was not receiving WFYI-DT. I'm just 5 miles from the tower and the signal meter showed nothing from them. Apparently off the air for whatever reason. I didn't have time to check this morning so I'm not sure if it is back on or not.

Steve

Nat

I normally get a signal strenght of 85-86 on WFYI nothing last night. Lets hope they fix it soon. I dont watch WTIU HD very much the lip-sinc is so bad I cant even fix it with my Lexicon MC12v4 audio delay.

Brad

Steve
Iam still here just been busy we need to get together with some of the guys and have a meeting like we did last year.

Brad

Originally posted by bp787
someone try and answer me this... if I move to Kentland, IN (which gets Chicago Locals) will i be able to easily get the NY HD feeds or not? I just want to verify before I do this...

Personally I have no idea how to answer your question. I assume you are referring to satellite service. You might be able to get more accurate feedback by posting your question at the Chicago thread or by calling the service provider you are planning to use.

Steve

I'm in bloomington (near bryan park) & only can get WTIU with my LARGE combo antenna (probably only 25ft high) Have winegard preamp on mast & Indy is recievable only periodically & then with pixelization. Sounds like I should try a UHF only antenna higher up. Any of the Indy stations broadcasting at full power yet (ever?)

Originally posted by hhiggins
I'm in bloomington (near bryan park) & only can get WTIU with my LARGE combo antenna (probably only 25ft high) Have winegard preamp on mast & Indy is recievable only periodically & then with pixelization. Sounds like I should try a UHF only antenna higher up. Any of the Indy stations broadcasting at full power yet (ever?)

check my post a page or two back. They're pretty much full power. saturday, I'm going up higher. probably 10ft over the roof of my 2 story house. that's about the extent that I can go without needing a true mast. I live near batchelor middle school. It's low back here :( I can get 8.1 when it's not windy out without much of a problem. Everything else sucks. UHF is the problem.

you wanna be a guinea pig and get one of the UHF only antennas mentioned earlier?

Originally posted by goldrich
Personally I have no idea how to answer your question. I assume you are referring to satellite service. You might be able to get more accurate feedback by posting your question at the Chicago thread or by calling the service provider you are planning to use.

Steve

heh. think in terms of "moving". I suppose I could just randomly call up directv and ask them if I can get the NY feeds in HD there....

I'm told that WFYI had to have a "scheduled" outage of several hours (overnight) during which they had to tear up concrete in the transmitter building to replace AC power cables.

I assume that they discovered the need to do this after they had an "unscheduled" outage.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

From the WFYI website:

NOTICE


The Channel 21 is off the air. We hope to be back on the air late Thursday or Friday. The antenna is down for maintenance and repairs. Being back on air will be determined by parts delivery, tower crew availability, and weather.

Tom Weber,

Per this information.......................

<HARRIS CORPORATION AND CBS SPORTS TEAM UP TO TRIPLE THE NUMBER <OF 2005 MARCH MADNESS GAMES TO BE BROADCAST IN HIGH DEFINITION <TELEVISION

<NCAA MEN’S BASKETBALL REGIONALS, FINAL FOUR AND CHAMPIONSHIP <GAMES IN HDTV

<24 First Round Games to Air in HD

<39 NCAA Tournament Basketball Games to Be Broadcast In HDTV and 5.1 <Surround Sound

.........................I'm assuming the multi-casting (4 games) of the first-round games is over, right? Otherwise you wouldn't be able to broadcast the HD games.........Just thinking out-loud, but might LIN TV & WISH have a LMA with WNDY/WNDY-DT by tournament time that could allow some of the games to be shown in HD via WNDY-DT? Just a wild thought to possibly accommodate all the HD tournament games.

Steve

I'm considering the UHF antenna, I'm in a particularly low spot & don't know if anything short of a high mast is going to get the Indy stations regardless, been a particularly low yield investment so far....but all those "available in HD" banners before the shows are definitely getting to me. Using a projector, so I could sure use the added resolution...

Hardly anything is impossible, BUT... even the optimistic ones among us don't think the transfer of WNDY would be approved by the start of tournament time, even if everything went swimmingly.

Even if, there would still be a number of contractual issues of bumping programming to carry basketball games.

And, (as you can appreciate), there are issues of exerting control over a station before one actually owns it.

Further, getting the multicast over to them would be slightly tricky.

All in all, quite unlikely.

And, in reading tea leaves around here, it's looking likely that we'll be doing games in mostly HD, rather than multicasting.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber


And, in reading tea leaves around here, it's looking likely that we'll be doing games in mostly HD, rather than multicasting.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Thanks for the update Tom.
And as one happy viewer of your engineering efforts, I must tell you that as much as I enjoyed the multicasting last year, I will enjoy HDTV even more.

Nat

WFYI 20 HD is up and running

Brad

Is anyone having audio problems with WNDY UPN channel 32, like cracklying, this has happend on mine last Mon and Tues, thenw as better Wed and was ok for rest of week then started again Sun and is still like it

blatt,
At least for me it's been a recurring problem with WNDY. Seemed real bad Saturday too for me. Fortuneately they don't have much I watch. UPN viewing will be down even more with them cancelling Enterprise. :(

update on my antenna problem.

Well, I put the antenna up 15' above the roofline of my house. I got CBS in HD better. signal got up to about 70 or so, but since I was only using a temporary setup just to see what I could get, the signal came and went. BUt it was definitely better. I did get "SOME" UHF reception from Indy. no picture though. Singal strength was only about 20-30 at best. so that sucks. I'm not really willing to go through adding in another antenna, etc... for this. I think i'm just geographically challenged :(

The other weird thing was that when I added in the preamp, I would loose ALL signal. it's hooked up properly, that I'm sure of. Oh well, i found another solution...

I "moved" :) I'm not getting HD network feeds. I'm a happy camper. down comes the antenna... All that work for nada. But this is why the FCC and the NAB suck! I mean, why should Bloomington be forced to be in Indy's DMA? I'm 1 hour away from indy.

oh well, thanks everyone for your help!

Les Auber
I called them yesterday and they were closd for the holiday, the man called me back today and said they were aware of it and was caused by a flexicocoder or something like that not sure about spelling, and he said they resetted it and its ok there so should be here, i'm listining to mine and mine is fine it seems so far although im not holding my breath if yours is still messed up, or it happens again id call, and if anyone else has this issue I hope they call the more people that call maybe that would make them actually fix the prob, but so far seems ok, but was ok for me a few days last week. I'm suprised they are cancelling Enterprise thats like almost their only good show, imo

blatt,
Enterprise is their only good show IMO also other then Stargate. Especially when they get the HD right on Enterprise. Unfortuneately we're in the minority since the ratings are down. This is why after May it just won't matter whether the sound is good or not.

They must have got someone new. My last exchange with WNDY was rather unsatisfying.

Originally posted by Tom Weber
And, in reading tea leaves around here, it's looking likely that we'll be doing games in mostly HD, rather than multicasting.Good news for me as this is my preference.

I live in the SE side of Indy, basically on Countyline Road and due south of the eastern side of the 465 loop. (Five Points and Countyline Road). I am thinking of getting a LG LST-4200A box and hoping to get away with an omni-directional antenna in the attic or maybe the Zenith Silver Sensor. What are my chances of success or what should my level of expectations? I dont want to throw down $400 and face the wrath of the wife.

edit: gave cross streets

OK.

New to HD. New Samsung DLP, used Samsung SIRT160.

I'm in Pendleton, about 20 NE of Indianapolis. I'm able to pick up all HD stations in Indy except WB with signals in the high 70s.

But, ABC (25.1) gives me constant audio dropouts at any signal strength making the channel unwatchable. I've had strengths as high as 93 with same result.

25.2 (their newschannel) has no problems.

Does anyone else encounter this problem, or could it be a defect in my (used) HD STB?

Thanks for the help.
Chris Clark

Originally posted by furball43
OK.

New to HD. New Samsung DLP, used Samsung SIRT160.

I'm in Pendleton, about 20 NE of Indianapolis. I'm able to pick up all HD stations in Indy except WB with signals in the high 70s.

But, ABC (25.1) gives me constant audio dropouts at any signal strength making the channel unwatchable. I've had strengths as high as 93 with same result.

25.2 (their newschannel) has no problems.

Does anyone else encounter this problem, or could it be a defect in my (used) HD STB?

Thanks for the help.
Chris Clark
I used to have the same problems with a Samsung t150 box. What I finally discovered was that if I cycled the power on the box, it would solve the problem. Some times it would take a few cycles. I'm not sure what it is with WRTV's signal, but it was the only one.

As you will discover, we are all part of an "evolution" from analog to digital TV, and as such, we will see strange things come and go.

If you want to try another OTA receiver, I have a Zenith HDR230 (the one with the hard drive that will record better than 8 hours of HD content) that I could let you have. I am planning on selling it.

Ken

Originally posted by KBandy
...I'm not sure what it is with WRTV's signal, but it was the only one.



Does WRTV broadcast in 720p? If so, that could be the issue. It just shows itself in the audio.

Originally posted by furball43
But, ABC (25.1) gives me constant audio dropouts at any signal strength making the channel unwatchable. I've had strengths as high as 93 with same result.


On advice from another source, I hooked up the D* sat signal (even though I don't have the HD dish mounted yet) and ran through installation.

The dropout disappeared! Well, at least until I disconnected the satellite signal.

So, problem solved (at least when I get the new dish up). For now, I won't sacrifice my DirecTiVo. Even at SD resolution, I can't live without it :)

Chris

Originally posted by LonnieG
I live in the SE side of Indy, basically on Countyline Road and due south of the eastern side of the 465 loop. (Five Points and Countyline Road). I am thinking of getting a LG LST-4200A box and hoping to get away with an omni-directional antenna in the attic or maybe the Zenith Silver Sensor. What are my chances of success or what should my level of expectations? I dont want to throw down $400 and face the wrath of the wife.

edit: gave cross streets

i would think you'd be fine there. You're within 30 miles of the antennas I think. But the attic mount would probably be a problem. You'll have better luck with an outdoor antenna. But try the indoor. THe worst thing that happens is that you have to take it back. you have 30 days from most places. why do you need $400? most large outdoor antennas are less than $150.

Originally posted by LonnieG
I live in the SE side of Indy, basically on Countyline Road and due south of the eastern side of the 465 loop. (Five Points and Countyline Road). I am thinking of getting a LG LST-4200A box and hoping to get away with an omni-directional antenna in the attic or maybe the Zenith Silver Sensor. What are my chances of success or what should my level of expectations? I dont want to throw down $400 and face the wrath of the wife.

edit: gave cross streets

My mapping software shows me that you are:
less than 20 miles from digital versions of 6,8,20, and 59
21 miles from digital version of 13
36 miles from digital version of 23
Forgot to check channel 4, but it's likely also relatively close since it's in Trafalgar.
I would bet good money that a modest outdoor VHF-UHF antenna and a rotor on the roof would nail all of them (23 a mild question mark).
And it likely wouldn't have to be 40 feet up in the air either.
I would guess a good outdoor antenna in the attic would get 6,8,20, and 59. if pointed to the North West.
Indoor I have no idea.
People living close to you will have a better idea on all of this.
My experience is from 50 miles away (Bloomington), and I get all of these (except 23) with a really good antenna and rotor only 15 feet off of the ground. I have a Samsung SIR-T451.
Everybody seems to agree that the LST-4200A is the best. I probably should buy one...

Nat

I'm not getting any signal on the digital 8-x channels right now, anyone else?

Edit: They're back now. Strange they'd do any maintenance during the one HD soap opera, though.

Originally posted by bp787
i would think you'd be fine there. You're within 30 miles of the antennas I think. But the attic mount would probably be a problem. You'll have better luck with an outdoor antenna. But try the indoor. THe worst thing that happens is that you have to take it back. you have 30 days from most places. why do you need $400? most large outdoor antennas are less than $150.

Includes the STB price as well.

Originally posted by LonnieG
Includes the STB price as well.

well, you'll need that regardless if you want OTA HDTV or DirecTV HDTV.

We found some troubling things on the tower, so we reduced power to allow the tower workers a closer view of some things.

Then I did a bit of upgrading on the PSIP computer program, and I've had to reboot a couple of times. That shouldn't cause a loss of signal, but if you tuned away you couln't tune back until the program was up and running again.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I recently purchased a Samsung SIR-T451.
It is able to receive unscrambled QAM signals from my Insight cable.
Here is the result of my searching:

92-1 6 (digital 25) ABC
92-2 8 (digital 9) CBS
92-3, 92-4, 93-1, 93-2, and 93-3, all say "NO AV" (future digital QAM "in the clear" expansion? - sure hope so!)
93-4 20 (digital 21) PBS Indy
93-5 30 (digital 14) PBS Bloomington
116-1 13 (digital 46) NBC

The above digital feeds are all HDTV capable.
My SIR-T451 can not tune above channel 125. I am wondering if there are any unscrambled QAM channels above 125.
Maybe channels 4 and 59 are up there????

Nat Hill IV

BrightHouse vs. DSS vs. Dish

Im moving back into the pay for TV arena and was wondering what you all felt was the best deal. I have one HDTV and one other highly used tv as well as 2 tv's that are not used so often. Most of what we watch is network but sports and TLC/HGTV shows would also be high on the list.

I have been living off of OTA for about a year now. It hasn't been bad but with racing starting back up I'm gonna want to get more than just OTA.

BrightHouse and Dish - equipment is leased so it's cheaper
DSS - I have an old HD STB and an older DSS-Tivo. I would be interested in getting a newer STB, but don't want to spend too much $.

Suggestions on which service may be better?

use what you've got and get DSS. Just my Opinion though. i've heard lots of bad things about Brighthouse and I never liked Dish. I'm assuming you're getting the HDTV locals OTA? If that's the case, then Direc will be fine.

Is there a place on the internet that list all the OTA HDTV channels in the Indianapolis area and if they're using UHF? I'm thinking of buying a RCD DTV100 off a friend for $50 and I live at 38/465 and wondering what I might get with it and a SS. I live in an apartment.

Yeah check out antenna web.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx

Put in your info and it will tell you what channels you should receive and in what direction to point your antenna.

Thanks. So I see cbs is vhs will I be able to get cbs with a rca dtc100 and a silver sensor attenna? I hear that a SS is good for only uhf. i'm 8 miles away.

Steve Hicks at WTHR reports that some issues relating to DD 5.1 and lip sync were also affecting other area NBC stations. NBC did look into it and made some adjustments. Steve reports that things now look good with matching lip sync on HD programming from the network.

Steve

Ok I picked up a used RCA DTC100 and I'm getting the majors in Indy with some old 20yr rabbit ears sig strgth (78-92). I did notice that my CBS-HD 8.1 has a thin whitish squiqqly line on the top edge of the letterbox image. Are others getting it? TIA

Amendment: this morning that line looks improved almost like it's not there. So I guess that means it's the station and not my receiver?

But I noticed a couple of otherthings. Do faces look a little fat on the HD channels? And is there a little fish eye effect?

Originally posted by Vanderlow
But I noticed a couple of otherthings. Do faces look a little fat on the HD channels? And is there a little fish eye effect?
Truthfully, I don't watch the DTV versions of the locals unless they're broadcasting an HD program. Otherwise, you will notice fatter faces (and other things). This is due to the fact that the locals have chosen to use what I call "stretch-o-vision" to fill the 16:9 screen with what was originally formatted for 4:3. There has been some discussion here regarding personal preferences for this. For me, unless the program has actually been formatted for 16:9, I would much rather see black bars on the sides, so proportions are kept true. I believe some of the locals do a "zoom in" so the proportions are kept, but you loose the top and bottom of the frame. In my opinion, this is also distracting, due to the fact that the shots are being framed for a 4:3 screen, and also when a "non-HD" image is blown up more on a higher quality display, it tends to get "grainy".

Just my opinion;) .

Ken

I second that whole heartedly. I'd much rather have the broadcast in the original format. Distort-o-Vision does nothing to display the benefits of HD.

Vanderlow, I've never noticed a white line at the top of 8.1. I have a 16:9 display so I normally don't get letterbox on 8.1. They usually broadcast their upconverted stuff distrorted to fit full screen on 16:9. The only one I've actually seen broadcast letterbox for 16:9 is WXIN.

Well I'm glad to see it's not just my eyes! I agree I hate this distort-o-vision. Seems like NBC and PBS is the best at airing the most pure HDTV 16x9. Do you guys know when CBS is going to switch to UHF? I'm using 25yr rabbit ears and it gets the lowest signal strength at 75% compared to the others in the mid80s to low90s, consequently I get the most drop out with channel 8.

Originally posted by Vanderlow
Do you guys know when CBS is going to switch to UHF?
If you're talking about WISH, Tom Weber is the man that can answer that with authority, but I don't think they are.

Ken

I haven't heard of any plan for WISH-DT to change to UHF either. Maybe Tom will comment.

As to signal strength, I'm using a UHF only antenna and WISH typically runs at 100%. Remember in DTV, signal strength really isn't strength. The signal indicator is more a measure of error rate. Multipath, low signal strength etc can affect it. Details are beyond me but it has always seemed like lots of drop outs can be multipath interference. Does the signal strength drop when the drop outs occur? A different antenna location, more directional antenna and so on might do the trick. If there's a magic always works formula for getting the right antenna in the right location I've never heard of it.

Originally posted by Vanderlow
Do you guys know when CBS is going to switch to UHF?

WISH-DT will not be switching to UHF. As of Feb. 10, WISH-DT elected and filed with the FCC to remain on VHF ch. 9. Meanwhile, WTHR-DT elected and filed with the FCC to return to ch. 13 when the analog stations are turned off. So in the near future, if approved by the FCC, WTHR-DT will switch from ch. 46 to ch. 13.

As it stands right now, once the analogs are turned off, the Indy-Lafayette-Terre Haute area will have 4 stations on VHF channels (WISH-DT 9, WTHI-DT 10, WLFI-DT 11 and WTHR-DT 13) and all other stations in the area will be on UHF channels.

If any of my comments are not correct, I hope a local engineer will please chime in and make corrections. Thanks.

Steve

I want to thank Al Grossniklaus, Director of Engineering, and Steve Hicks, who manages Master Control, for inviting me to WTHR yesterday for a tour of their facilities. It was a great experience and I loved Al's stories about WTHR-DT and other broadcasting experiences. They allowed me to take pictures so I'll share a few of those.

Recently, Al made several phone calls to NBC to work on the lip sync issue. It was discovered that the lip sync setting for prime time hours was different from the lip sync setting for the Tonight Show. HD programming during prime time is sent to affiliate stations direct from New York while Tonight is sent from Burbank, CA to New York, and then out to affiliate stations. After several discussions with NBC and some tweaking of equipment at WTHR, it appears that audio and video are together, and this is my personal observation, too.

Al opened the front cover of the unit in the equipment room at WTHR that syncs the audio and video feed. Here's a pic........

Al plans to update some of the stations' consoles within the next year, including the one in the Master Control center. Most of the switching for commercials, station IDs, etc. is computer controlled and performed automatically. This picture shows part of Master Control. WTHR and WTHR-DT are monitored in this room.

Steve,

WTHI has been into my store....(moved from Sales in the Bloomington HH Gregg to General Manager at Terre Haute) and are putting up a UHF antenna here at the store for me.

They were rather surprised that I am pulling in their signal 40 miles east of their tower. They told me that they were only transmitting at 1/4 power. I will be talking with them on Friday...I will find out as much as I can. I am also planning on a chat with 2 and 38.....will see what information I can get from them.

This picture shows part of the DTV/HDTV equipment needed for WTHR-DT, including the HD time-shift recorder (bright blue, bottom left) used during Daylight Saving Time months.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I asked Al when we might see local programming in HD on WTHR-DT. He said it might be around 2-3 years away. WTHR's current studio cameras are 12 years old. When those need to be replaced the next step would be to order HD cameras. The station does own one HD camera, which is currently operated in SD mode, and an HD graphics generator. It will take time and lots of money to convert all studio equipment to HD in order to broadcast local HD programming.

In addition to WTHR, WTHR-DT and Skytrack Weather Network, WIPX/WIPX-DT (PAX) is controlled and switched by facilities in the WTHR building on N. Meridian.

Steve

Steve,
While you were there did you ask why they are (at least on my equipment) the only local station to broadcast in the Stretch-0-Vision mode when the programming is not HD?

Originally posted by GLBright
Steve,
While you were there did you ask why they are (at least on my equipment) the only local station to broadcast in the Stretch-0-Vision mode when the programming is not HD?

No, we didn't get into that discussion. WRTV and WISH stretch their SD programming, too. WISH does it because the GM likes it that way.... :-)

Steve

WTHR doesn't stretch. They crop. The aspect ratios are correct (unlike WISH and WRTV).

OTA, CBS and ABC also stretch- the only one that I receive that doesn't stretch is Fox. And that may only be commercials during HD programming. I don't watch much on Fox that isn't in HD.

Originally posted by IndyJeff
WTHR doesn't stretch. They crop. The aspect ratios are correct (unlike WISH and WRTV).
That's what I have observed on WTHR also. It's still distracting, maybe not as much as stretch-o-vision, but with zoom-o-vision the image (expanded SD) tends to be pretty grainy, plus you loose information at the top and bottom of the frame. I have noticed, though, that WTHR is taking this into consideration on their news programs. They are leaving a little space between their CG titles, etc. and the bottom of the frame (in 4:3), that way it's not cut off when zoomed. Now if they could just proof read what they put there, but that's a whole 'nother subject! :rolleyes:

Ken

Originally posted by goldrich
No, we didn't get into that discussion. WRTV and WISH stretch their SD programming, too. WISH does it because the GM likes it that way.... :-)

Steve

You don't suppose that the GM would be interested in knowing that at least some of his audience avoids watching WISH-DT for this reason?

Hi,
I am new to HD. I am 45 miles NE of Indy(Alex), and can receive all HD signals except 29. If I point toward Windfall I can pick up 29 in HD. My question....Will 29 ever broadcast in HD in(from) Indy? And will a multidirectional antenna cure the problem? (like a DB8 Ultra Long Range Multi - Directional)
tia
RC

Originally posted by Les Auber
You don't suppose that the GM would be interested in knowing that at least some of his audience avoids watching WISH-DT for this reason?

Yep, same here - I won't watch WISH (or WRTV) unless it's an HD show. Usually, I end up watching something on WTHR, WNDY, or WXIN instead. It's too bad - I really prefer the local news on WISH but I hate the stretched look.

Originally posted by Les Auber
You don't suppose that the GM would be interested in knowing that at least some of his audience avoids watching WISH-DT for this reason?

Actually I should have said WISH-TV's FORMER GM preferred the "full" look, filling the 16 x 9 screen. He was recently promoted within the company (LIN TV) and WISH now has a new GM. Maybe Tom Weber will let us know if any screen changes might be planned.

Steve

Originally posted by uneverno
Hi,
I am new to HD. I am 45 miles NE of Indy(Alex), and can receive all HD signals except 29. If I point toward Windfall I can pick up 29 in HD. My question....Will 29 ever broadcast in HD in(from) Indy? And will a multidirectional antenna cure the problem? (like a DB8 Ultra Long Range Multi - Directional)
tia
RC

Welcome to the world of HD and AVS Forum! Yes, WTTK-DT 54 (29.1) has received a construction permit from the FCC to move the transmitter location from Windfall to Indianapolis and to use the WXIN tower. The CP also includes approval to increase the power to 1000 kW, with the strongest signal beamed north toward Kokomo, the city of license. You should receive lots of signal in Alexandria at that time. Timetable on this project is not currently known here.

In the meantime, a multidirectional antenna would probably help you receive WTTK-DT since you are fairly close to Windfall, but it might hurt your reception of stations from Indy. As we've discussed here many times, reception results can vary so much between locations, even a few feet. The best answer usually isn't known until you try it.....trial and error. Hopefully another DTV viewer in your general area will post here with some additional info.

Steve

Great news about the tower being moved to Indy! Hope it happens soon.
Love the board, learned alot.
Thanks for the info Steve
rc

Originally posted by goldrich
Actually I should have said WISH-TV's FORMER GM preferred the "full" look, filling the 16 x 9 screen. He was recently promoted within the company (LIN TV) and WISH now has a new GM. Maybe Tom Weber will let us know if any screen changes might be planned.

Steve

We can only hope. I too prefer the full screen filled but not at the expense of the picture quality. Upconverted SD suffers enough without adding geometry distortion.

Nat,

Had the weekend off and tried to tune the unscrambled channels on insight. Went thru the tuner in my mits.....nothing. I then tried the the SIRT360 I got for D#% and it locked in those channels but showed showed that they were scrambled. Don't know if this is a Bloomington only thing or Spencer is just excluded in that.....Will try again my next weekend off.

Randy
I just got the digital cable box the 6200 from insight, I like it real well. The Picture seems to be better than what I get from D** and OTA with my Rca dtc 100. They offer HDNET, HDNETmovies, UniversalHD, DiscoveryHD ESPN, the locals are 6,8,13,30 and 59 in HD. They are going to have the new box the 6402 with duel tuners in by May but so far I like it.

On my RCA DTC 100 I can get the unscrambled channels fine.

Brad

Hey..

is wish-dt simulcasting the NCAA games this year? havn't heard much about it..

or will the SD and HD games be different?

With significantly more HD available, we have chosen this year to do HD instead of multicasting. (We have to do one or the other, there isn't enough data space to do both.)

The HD game will almost always be different from the SD game, for the first 3 rounds. (Rounds 4 and beyond, there's only one game being played at a time.) The exception may be that the SD (analog) feeds will "flex'" or switch around to other games, if our main game is a blowout; the HD feed is a "constant," and will flex only at the conclusion of a game until the next one at that location starts up.

Tom Weber
WISH-TV Engineering

The HD game will almost always be different from the SD game, for the first 3 rounds.

Due to the lack of local interest in the tournament, wouldn't we have a better chance of seeing the "national" game? Although maybe that isn't the case, since all the arenas aren't doing HD, right?

Originally posted by auribe14
Due to the lack of local interest in the tournament, wouldn't we have a better chance of seeing the "national" game? Although maybe that isn't the case, since all the arenas aren't doing HD, right?

You are correct that not all arenas this week during the first 3 rounds are broadcasting in HD, including the Indy games from the RCA Dome.

Thanks to WISH-DT, for me it was a pleasure to watch Bob Knight's Texas Tech Red Raiders in HD, especially with their win over UCLA. BTW, I thought the PQ of that game from Tucson was great.

Steve

We've learned today that on Saturday, anyway, for at least a while, our assigned game for analog is also the only one available from an HD location at that time, so altho there are multiple games being played, we'll get that one game in SD -and- HD.

With luck, most of the locations will have HD trucks available next year, so that this will happen less.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I was wondering what people's successes were in getting WTTK29 (HD) in Frankfort, Indiana. I get 6, 8, 13, 18, 20, 23, and 59 with a simple indoor antenna and tried a large outdoor one just to bring in WTTK or WTTV and I had no success. Any ideas or experiences?


Thanks!

Originally posted by WilEAdams
I was wondering what people's successes were in getting WTTK29 (HD) in Frankfort, Indiana. I get 6, 8, 13, 18, 20, 23, and 59 with a simple indoor antenna and tried a large outdoor one just to bring in WTTK or WTTV and I had no success. Any ideas or experiences?

I'm in Westfield so I'm guessing we're roughly the same distance from WTTK. Using just the Terk HDTVi I get flawless reception from all the Indy stations and 23. If I move the antenna around and stand it up on end I can occassionally get WTTK in at about a 50 signal strength. But it's all kinds of weird positions for only that strong. I'm thinking if I even had an attic antenna I would be able to get it, but I'm not going to go through that much trouble just for 1 station that is eventually going to be moved to Indy and boosted way up in power. But anyway, to answer your question I can get the signal with an indoor antenna but never in the 90s like the rest of the Indy stations...

By the way, I know it's asked a lot here...but does anyone know the status of the wttk-dt transmitter move?

As far as the stretching on WISH vs the cropping on WTHR, I prefer the stretchign on WISH. My Highes DirecTV box has a button that will "shrink" the fat WISH picture into a 4:3 with black bars on the sides. The cropped WTHR picture looks all grainy because it is blown up. Hitting "shrink" on my Hughes DirecTV box only makes people look really thin and grainy on WTHR.

The best option... black bars
Next best.... stretching
Worst... cropping

I live over here by IRP on the westside and I get all the stations except 4 or 29. What station do I have a better chance of getting? Both before and after the 29 transmitter move? Am I going to need a serious antenna? (Right now I run amplified rabbit ears to get everything else... including 23)

I'm also excited to see WTHR will be on channel 13 soon! WISH on 9 is the most solid station I get. When is the changeover expected? End of this year or next?

Jason,
I agree entirely. WISH and WRTV, when pillarboxed, provide a perfectly usable and accurate 4:3 picture (when not broadcasting HD). WTHR, on the other hand, cannot be made to look correct in any mode. It's sad that I have to switch to satellite or analog SD antenna to view WTHR properly. Why they do this is truly a puzzle because it affects all Indy area HD owners.

Originally posted by jasonblair
As far as the stretching on WISH vs the cropping on WTHR, I prefer the stretchign on WISH. My Highes DirecTV box has a button that will "shrink" the fat WISH picture into a 4:3 with black bars on the sides. The cropped WTHR picture looks all grainy because it is blown up. Hitting "shrink" on my Hughes DirecTV box only makes people look really thin and grainy on WTHR.

The best option... black bars
Next best.... stretching
Worst... cropping

Agreed... when I had VOOM there was an option on the box to shrink the stretched images back to a normal 4:3, but my TV doesn't have this in "digital" mode, and neither does my cable box now that I'm back with digital cable.

If WISH and WRTV could pillarbox their standard fare, that would be great (and eliminate the need to watch the analog feeds at all).

Jeff.
I agree with you. Preserve the aspect ratio. I'd much rather have pillar box then stretched and distorted. Picture looks better too.

Out here in a no-cable zone, I often forget that not everyone with HD uses an STB with 16:9/4:3 adjustments.

Greg

I would guess not- the first 2 rounds are going to be on Universal HD.

Interesting- would be fun to be able to compare OTA vs. D*

Programming tells me that we WILL be doing the Thursday and Friday Master's coverage on WISH-HD.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Kind of strange but my stb keeps locking on a signal for 70-2? Seems to be a subchannel for WBAK out of Terre Haute. Anyone getting the same thing?

WIPB-DT 52, Muncie (Ball State U.) has worked out its financial difficulties and the DTV project is now moving forward again. The station will be erecting a new 800-foot tower about 4 miles south of Muncie. The CE tells me that he hopes to have the station on the air by late September. Congratulations and good luck with the project.

Steve

I purchased a Samsung SIR-T451 to provide a possible backup to the OTA HD channels I receive through my HD Tivo. I have Insight cable and I am in the Noblesville region. I hooked up the SIR-T451 and scanned for QAM "in the clear" channels. It found some movie channels, but the only local broadcast station that was mapped was WTHR (NBC) on 114-1.

Can anyone provide a list of channel mappings for Insight cable (Noblesville region) for use with a QAM tuner? I've seen the listing for Insight in Bloomington (nathill on 02-25-05), but the mappings appear to be different (i.e. NBC in Bloomington is 116-1). Thanks in advance!

To Goldrich

Hello again Steve, good to hear that my local station WIPB-DT 52 will be on the
air soon. I just purchased one of the LG LSS 3200A stb's from Robert at Value
Electronics and I am still in the learning curve on it, but I am very satisfied with
the box so far.

Still out here in the sticks at Selma, but the HDTV is coming loud and clear, well most of the time anyway.

Tom "coolray" Smalley

Can't anybody help me out with my question regarding Insight cable channel mapping and QAM (posted just above)?

I am a voom subscriber and I use an OTA antenna to pick up my local NBC, CBS, and FOX stations. The OTA provided by voom, is a Wingard Sensar II; I am pleased with the reception, as I can pull in a PBSstation about 60 miles away. Being an avid football fan, I would really like to grab an ABC station out of Indianapolis (tower is about 68miles away from me to the east). I would prefer OTA reception over a basic lifeline cable package because football is much better in HD.

According to antennaweb.org, I can get the analog signal from the tower, but they do not list the digital signal. However, I've heard that antennaweb is very conservative in their estimates. Cost is also a factor, I've read that 30' towers can cost roughly $1000....I can't spend that much on this project. I would like to mount an antenna to my roof using a tripod. With the height of my roof being ~15' and a tripod with 5' mast, I am estimating I would have about 20-25' of antenna height. My neighbor across the street does have one tall tree in the general direction I would need to point. Living in west/central Indiana, I don't have a hill or mountain problem

I've been reccomended a XG91 from antennadirect.com and a CM 4228 from solidsignal(plus a pre-amp). Due to the distance of the tower, am I being overly optimistic about pulling in a consistent signal using only 20-25' of height? Is there some way to test the signal strength of that particluar station?

Assuming I am not overly optimistic, Also, how do I combine my two OTA antennas? I would like to keep the current antenna as I would not have to deal with a rotor and it is also working so well right now. The current OTA goes to the switch located at the back of the voom dish. Then the cable exiting the switch goes to a diplexor located on the back of the voom receiver. Can someone help with how I would add a 2nd OTA?


Thanks in advance!

Threads merged.

Originally posted by terfmop
...I use an OTA antenna to pick up my local NBC, CBS, and FOX stations....Being an avid football fan, I would really like to grab an ABC station out of Indianapolis (tower is about 68miles away from me to the east).

If you are truly an avid football fan go with D* and get the HD local ABC and NFL ST. You will only see CBS HD games in TH OTA as Fox (WBAK) does not do HD. If you live on a hill, you might be able to pick up ABC, but the signal is not likely to carry to here. I live on the South end and can not get ABC with a roof mounted antenna.

Good luck.

Threads merged.

Originally posted by CCsoftball7
If you are truly an avid football fan go with D* and get the HD local ABC and NFL ST. You will only see CBS HD games in TH OTA as Fox (WBAK) does not do HD. If you live on a hill, you might be able to pick up ABC, but the signal is not likely to carry to here. I live on the South end and can not get ABC with a roof mounted antenna.

Good luck.

I live up in Terre Town. I get the NFL Network with my Voom package. But I heard D*'s HD is 'overcompressed'. I am about to end my sub with Dish since I now have voom, after my 6 mos. contract with Voom, i might check out D*.

Originally posted by mdobbins
Can't anybody help me out with my question regarding Insight cable channel mapping and QAM (posted just above)?

Sorry, wish I could help you out but I'm on Bright House, which offers only 3 local DTV's....WISH, WFYI and WTHR. I have scanned and found these channels by using my OTA/QAM receiver but I have noticed that sometimes these stations will lock up like the system started scrambling the signals. By performing another scan, they come back. Sometimes I too have noticed that the scan will find movies (PPV channels) but they usually become scrambled after a short time of viewing.

Hopefully someone in the Noblesville area can assist you soon.

Steve

Originally posted by terfmop
I live up in Terre Town. I get the NFL Network with my Voom package. But I heard D*'s HD is 'overcompressed'. I am about to end my sub with Dish since I now have voom, after my 6 mos. contract with Voom, i might check out D*.

Hate to tell you that your 6 month contract has been shortened to 3 weeks. www.voom.com (http://www.voom.com)

Hey guys,

I am helping a friend add an OTA antenna in the Geist area. We are currently trying to use a Winegard SquareShooter, the amplified model. Channels 8 and 13 come in perfectly with signal strength in the 92-95 range no matter where the antenna is positioned. The problem is 6 and 59. I can get 6 to come in pretty well if I point south of where antennaweb suggests, but it kills 59. 59, on the other hand seems pretty weak in general, and I'm having a hard time getting a consistent signal from it.

Here is the info from antennaweb for his address:

WRTV-DT 6.1 ABC INDIANAPOLIS IN 254° 11.4
WTHR-DT 13.1 NBC INDIANAPOLIS IN 263° 9.9
WXIN-DT 59.1 FOX INDIANAPOLIS IN 250° 11.7
WISH-DT 8.1 CBS INDIANAPOLIS IN 251° 11.9


Based on this information, it seemed to me that the antenna should be pointed around 254 for the best overall signal, but it seems like the best signal comes in around 230, which really makes no sense at all.

Could the reservoir be causing interference?

It seems like since all the towers are in the same direction and about the same distance away that I should be able to get them all in.

When I adjusted the tilt and azmuth the results were mixed, but I could never find a solution that was consistently good.

As it is right now, 6 "blocks up" about every minute, and 59 is pretty much unwatchable.

Thanks a lot for the help! I really appreciate it.

Originally posted by auribe14
Hate to tell you that your 6 month contract has been shortened to 3 weeks. www.voom.com (http://www.voom.com)

Yep. I called and cancelled my account with them, no sense in waiting 3 more weeks. They pro-rated my account and didn't charge the early termination fee. Luckily I've only had the service since March 25th and ZI hadn't cancelled my Dish yet.

Fry's Electronics opens today in the new Incredible Universe/Auto Nation store.. someone here will have a first-hand account by 6pm Saturday.. please hook us up with the details! :)

Originally posted by Duster72
Hey guys,

I am helping a friend add an OTA antenna in the Geist area. We are currently trying to use a Winegard SquareShooter, the amplified model. Channels 8 and 13 come in perfectly with signal strength in the 92-95 range no matter where the antenna is positioned. The problem is 6 and 59. I can get 6 to come in pretty well if I point south of where antennaweb suggests, but it kills 59. 59, on the other hand seems pretty weak in general, and I'm having a hard time getting a consistent signal from it.

................
As it is right now, 6 "blocks up" about every minute, and 59 is pretty much unwatchable.

Thanks a lot for the help! I really appreciate it.

At that distance you should have little difficulty receiving these stations. Area member Coolray in Selma, IN, east of Muncie, is about the same azimuth as your friend and he receives the Indy stations with few problems using an attic antenna. As in real estate, location, location, location plus the antenna is key. Personally I'm not familiar with the antenna you're using. I'm 3-5 miles from these stations and I've had problems with an attic antenna, mostly due to multipath I believe, but with an outside antenna things work very well.

Steve

Originally posted by bradyusi
Fry's Electronics opens today in the new Incredible Universe/Auto Nation store.. someone here will have a first-hand account by 6pm Saturday.. please hook us up with the details! :)

I stopped by on Friday after work. Huge store! I liken it to a combination of Radio Shack, Office Max, and Best Buy. It's really amazing the selection they have. I'm not one for getting too much help from the sales guys, so I'm can't comment on that, although I was asked if I needed help about 15 times in the hour that I was there.

I've got high hopes for the store, as long as people can get past the location. It took me 15 minutes to get back onto 96th St.

bakem

Originally posted by bradyusi
Fry's Electronics opens today in the new Incredible Universe/Auto Nation store.. someone here will have a first-hand account by 6pm Saturday.. please hook us up with the details! :)

What do you want to know- been there twice already.

In response to Duster72's query on help with signal strength relative to location and distance from the "tower farm", as of about 5 minutes ago, on my new LG LSS-3200a

WISH-DT 8-1 = 79 CBS 254 deg. 53.1 miles
WFYI-DT 20-1 = 41 PBS 254 " 52.6 miles
WRTV-DT 6-1 = 84 ABC 254 " 52.7 miles
WTHR-DT 13-1 = 81 NBC 256 " 51.1 miles
WXIN-DT 59-1 = 62 FOX 253 " 53.0 miles
WNDY-DT 23-1 = 73 UPN 273 " 35.4 miles

I live at Selma, Indiana which is about 5 miles due East from Muncie and I am across the street from Prairie Creek Reservoir. I am about 250 feet off of the road and in a heavily wooded 6 acre home site. My antenna is a Radio Shack VHF-UHF outdoor antenna which is mounted INSIDE my attic on a rotor with 360 degree's of movement. I have been told many times that I should not be able to get these types of signals with this type of strength, especially since my outdoor antenna is mounted INSIDE, but I do and my only explanation is two fold. As Steve Goldrich has pointed out to me before I must be in a "sweet spot", which I do agree with and I also think that our elevation of over 1,025 feet above sea level is also of great help. Just to let you know that it is possible get digital signals over a longer range than is usually expected.

as an aside, how do you put the little circle up to designate degree's ?

Thanks
Tom Smalley

Originally posted by bakem84
I stopped by on Friday after work. Huge store! I liken it to a combination of Radio Shack, Office Max, and Best Buy. It's really amazing the selection they have. I'm not one for getting too much help from the sales guys, so I'm can't comment on that, although I was asked if I needed help about 15 times in the hour that I was there.

I've got high hopes for the store, as long as people can get past the location. It took me 15 minutes to get back onto 96th St.

Yeah, the location of Fry's in Fishers is pretty bad. The traffic gets really backed up around there, especially when a big movie lets out across the street.

The store is huge with a lot of variety. The prices are so-so, but there are a few bargains to be had here and there. It's too bad they don't have a good web site... it would be nice to know what they have in stock and what the prices are before making that awful trip into Fishers.

Got back to the Indy area about 2.5 years ago after many years in the SF Bay area. I have missed the occasional visit to Fry's.

In the Bay area if you needed anything electronic and you could not find it at Radio Shack, the Good Guys, CompUSA, or Circuit City you probably would find it at one of the big Fry's stores.

Fry's will have decent advertised specials and closeouts but their normal prices are about like everyone else's. Hopefully, they will shake-up the market in a good way with some competition. I doubt they will have a "Walmart-effect" of wiping out other stores unless Fry's adds one or two more stores in the Indy area.

By ther way, in the early 80's I went to the original Fry's electronics store in Santa Clara. This store at the time was half groceries and half electronics (the father originally only had groceries).

Now, if we can just get an In/Out Burger . . .

With NCAAs and the Masters over with, I've added Radar back into the WISH-DT multiplex, just in time for this week's storms <g>. Some folks may need to re-scan, I suppose, though our proper PSIP is intended to eliminate that.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

A little OT but one way to make a degree symbol that works most anywhere is hold the Alt key and type 248 on the number pad. That results in ASCII for "°".

So...how is HD supposed to grow with the following mentality? :

In February, WTHR's 10pm new was kicked off UPN 23. Soon after they moved the newscast to their SkyTrak weather channel. They promoted the move on-air by telling people what cable systems the channel was available on. No mention of 13.2.

Now several weeks later, they announce it will also be broadcast on PAX (63) and again tell us what cable systems carry PAX.

Do they not even realize the weather channel is available over the air on 13.2? Does the news department understand multicasting?

Sorry. Just an little rant.

Chris

I don't think many news operations have taken a minute to think about high-def...... until it's time to buy new cameras and editing equipment for their photogs.

I know WIPX (Pax) has all it's 'other' HD channels taken with various other feeds.

I kinda assume that the news dept. is assuming that if you get your signal ota, you either already know that skytrak is on 13.2, and wipx is 63.. but that brings me back to your point.. how does not doing anything grow the product. (and it's also a lot of assuming!)

I just wish someone in Indy would start producing some HD news.. shooting in HD would be awesome. (and no.. not upconverted SD shot in 16:9.. gimme the real thing) It would make me want to WATCH the news.. not just LISTEN to it! There are some awesome photogs in this market, and I'm sure they could make some beautiful HDTV!

BTW: Did anyone see the Pope's Funeral in HD? I thought I saw it on INHD while I was in Fry's, but by the time I looked again it was gone. It seems to be a regular thing now.. big events are in HD. RNC/DNC, Reagan's Funeral, Inaugeration, Pope.. Now, if they would just play it up. ESPN has the little sounder and lower third graphic at the beginning of every HD event. Something like that.

WRTV-HD, what happened to HD?

for at least the last few nights?

There's a FRY's here now!?!?!

I went to college at UCLA, and I LOVED going to Fry's! Nothing like buying refurbished stuff from a plain white box that may or may not contain what it says! ;)

Where is the Fry's? I live on the westside, so I haven't seen it..

Do you remember where Incredible Universe was? It's on 96th and I-69.

BAH! You northeast siders! That's too far to drive from Avon!

As I watched 24 of foxhd WXIN I have noticed that there logo is pretty bright, more so than any other channel. I was wondering if anyone from WXIN wondered around here and if so can we turn the logo down a little.

thanks
Brad

You might drop Rick Poling a line, RPoling@tribune.com, if he's still there. I haven't heard anything from him for a while. He's usually pretty responsive on the stuff under his control.

Thanks Les I sent him a email we will see what happens.
Brad

No I watched CSI and noticed the samething.

Brad

Can you tell me what day(s) that was?

Older episodes may not be in HD (possible with K of Q), or we may have simply messed up (more likely with CSI).

Tom Weber, WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Can you tell me what day(s) that was?

Older episodes may not be in HD (possible with K of Q), or we may have simply messed up (more likely with CSI).

Tom Weber, WISH Engineering

It was Thursday night. The opening segment started with lots of green dots and other interference filling the screen. After the first commercial break, the show returned in stretched 4:3.

Same here in Spencer OTA and Insight cable green dots and no HD

Brad

OK, found the problem write-up. Problem with the High Def delay system, it had to be rebooted and then was not ready for playback until 1 hour after it was re-started.

Contact your Legislator! Support DST! Fewer delay problems! <g>

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Quote:
Contact your Legislator! Support DST! Fewer delay problems!

And not just any old DST, either. Gotta be Eastern Time. Heard the results of an informal poll on WIBC this A.M. Turns out something like 63 per cent preferred Central Time, and 35 per cent preferred Eastern Time. Remarkable! I would gladly trade a 7 P.M. start to prime time for that extra hour of evening daylight in the summer, not to mention avoiding a 4 P.M. sunset in late December. I know the Drive-In theaters will be hurt, but how many are left? Anybody here been to one lately, especially for their state-of-the-art sound systems? Just my two cents.

Greg

Greg,
Hate to say it but if we did DST like the rest of the country it would still be dark at 4 PM in December. They set the clocks back to standard time round about October. Me I'd like to set them up and leave them. And yes I'd rather have Eastern daylight time.

Originally posted by Les Auber
Greg,
Hate to say it but if we did DST like the rest of the country it would still be dark at 4 PM in December. They set the clocks back to standard time round about October. Me I'd like to set them up and leave them. And yes I'd rather have Eastern daylight time.

I don't think Greg's worried so much about DST, but about changing to the Central time zone. Sunset in December's around 5 or so around here now, but if we were on Central time it would be around 4.

I spent a few years in Boston for college, and believe me, it sucks to have it completely dark by 4:30.

As for the Central vs. Eastern fight, why can't they just leave the time zone borders as they are in the first place? Those near Chicago (and Evansville) would be happy, and the rest of us would just have to get used to changing the clock in the fall/spring. Plus, and to bring things back on topic, we wouldn't have to worry about delayed broadcasts, or others spoiling the plots of our favorite HD shows on boards like this one!

bakem

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Contact your Legislator! Support DST! Fewer delay problems! <g>He got roped into changing it into a DST bill, but my senator is the author of SB127 and he is supporting the process if not DST itself.

What I don't get is those that are pushing the Indiana legislature for Central Time when it is NOT in the power of the state to alter time zones. And holding the entire state hostage because they haven't bothered to get the appropriate authority to adjust the time zones in the past 30 years.

(What I really don't get is the House amendments that would make our law illegal! But that's another rant.)

DST is the right thing to do. Indianapolis and Fort Wayne markets have "protected" their viewers from the affects of not having DST by time shifting shows. South Bend leaves everything 'live' which means I miss an hour after work before I get home during the summer.

The big mess is radio. Live and local 24/7 is ok, but add in a national radio show on a talk or music station and suddenly things are out of whack ... either the show remains live an hour earlier or the station runs a delay.

Rant over. I'm sick of the DST debate. Just get er done and put 30 years of wierdness behind us. And make things easier on our beloved HD stations. :D

JL

A couple pages late but I typically do not watch local channel in OTA digital unless they are HD due to the poor images. I always go back to the DirecTV feed. My MITS has several strech modes.

The one I like is a progressive strech. The center 1/2 if the picture is never touch. Then the next 1/8 is light to moderate strech with the outside 1/8 really streched. Only occasionally is that objectional or even noticable on a 65".

Jim,
I am sorry I have to agree with you (to a great extent) regarding digital picture quality when the signal is not HD.
I am amazed at how bad it can be, especially with certain stations and certain events.
At first, I was comparing digital to over the air, and digital clearly won since I'm fifty miles from Indy.
My cable signal is fairly good, though, and the comparison is much closer. I still watch digital most of the time due to its clarity. But I am very disappointed with the way it looks a lot of the time, especially network sports feeds. Some golf tournaments are horrible to watch.
I find it interesting that the sub-channels carrying local news and whatnot seem to be substantially more clear than the network feeds.
Nat

Originally posted by Jim_Hunt
The one I like is a progressive strech. The center 1/2 if the picture is never touch. Then the next 1/8 is light to moderate strech with the outside 1/8 really streched. Only occasionally is that objectional or even noticable on a 65".
Watch out if you use that mode on a fast moving scene, such as basketball or racing. It tends to do strange things to your senses. At least mine.

Ken

Looks like I need to reset something else on our HD delay, as it appears not to be passing 5.1. I'll try to figure this out.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Nat,

I'm a student at IU. I can only pick up PBS, PAX, and RTV 6. How many stations can you pick up? I'm in some on-campus apartments, so I'm high enough that my antenna is right with the tree tops. I'd hoped I'd get more channels, but guess I'm not that lucky.

~Will

Hi Will;
Based on the digital signals others in Bloomington are able to receive, I must really have a good location or be very lucky or both.
I live North of Bloomington, which certainly helps.
I have noticed that (as the old cliche goes) the harder I work the luckier I get.
I can receive the following:
WRTV ABC 6 25
WKIN FOX 59 45
WISH-TV CBS 8 9
WFYI PBS 20 21
WTIU PBS 30 14
WIPX PAX 63 27
WTHR NBC 13 46
WCLJ IND 42 56 ( I almost never get this, I wonder if it's even transmitting)
WTTV WB 4 48
WNDY UPN 23 32 (Took a LOT of work to get this one reliably)
To get all of these required a lot of antenna moving and fooling around with pre-amps, cabling, etc.
Alititude and surrounding topography have a lot to do with all of this.
The digital signals require highly directional antennas, because multi-path is a very real problem.
I would say that if you get a good quality analog signal with your antenna from a given station, you should be able to get good digital.
That's how I did most of my experimenting. Be very aware of noise generated by power lines. A random series of dots that run across the screen isn't all that bad with an analog signal, but reveal noise and that noise is really hard on digital signals.
Let me know how you get along. This is really fun, and when an HD signal locks in it's pretty neat.
Nat

I live a couple of houses south of Nat, and I receive all the same channels that Nat has. I have 19' pole attached to the house with an Archer UHF/VHF antenna and a mast-mounted amplifier. I added a mid-range AntennasDirect UHF only antenna to the top of my mast with an AntennasDirect UHF and VHF combiner. So the large Archer antenna is only for the VHF. If Channel 8 would move out of the VHF band, I could get rid of the Archer. This is all fed into a Dishnetwork 921 satellite receiver that has dual satellite tuners and an single OTA tuner. I split the OTA signal into an ATI All-In-Wonder 9600xt card in my desktop computer.

The down side is I have a majestic old maple tree of my neighbors that is directly in line with Indy. Over the years I lose the VHF during the leaf season (hence the satellite system). It will be interesting to see how much of the UHF digital signal I can hold over the next month.

Todd

Based on tonight's CSI:NY, it looks like we have the 5.1 surround working on the HD delay again. Thanks for all your patience!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by nathill

WCLJ IND 42 56 ( I almost never get this, I wonder if it's even transmitting)


This station is operating with lower power (7.1kW) at approximately 550 feet on their 1000 ft. tower in Trafalgar. Also, the station is using a very directional antenna which beams the signal toward Bloomington, the city of license. When you factor together the rather low transmitting antenna height and the hills around Bloomington, line-of-sight reception could be rather difficult.

Meanwhile, WTTV-DT, with its tower next to the WCLJ tower, is transmitting an omni-directional signal with less power (4.0kW) but has its transmitting antenna mounted at approximately 950 feet, providing a much better line-of-sight signal around the area.

"If you are into math, the approximate distance (in miles) to the radio horizon can be calculated by multiplying the square root of the antenna height (in feet) by 1.415 times. For example, the theoretical distance to the radio horizon for an antenna 1,000 feet above the ground is just under 45 miles." ................( Thanks to www.dxfm.com )



FYI....Todd and Will, here's a good source to learn more about signal problems relating to trees and leaves.........

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html


Steve

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Based on tonight's CSI:NY, it looks like we have the 5.1 surround working on the HD delay again. Thanks for all your patience!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Thanks, Tom. I did notice the 5.1 last night!

Steve

I'm curious if anyone is using the Square Shooter antenna for digital signals? If so, about how far are you from the source broadcasts and are you satisfied? I am located in Greenwood.

I am looking to buy an antenna but want it mounted so it will not be visible from the street. Anyone have another recommendation?

Threads merged.

Originally posted by goldrich
This station is operating with lower power (7.1kW) at approximately 550 feet on their 1000 ft. tower in Trafalgar. Also, the station is using a very directional antenna which beams the signal toward Bloomington, the city of license. When you factor together the rather low transmitting antenna height and the hills around Bloomington, line-of-sight reception could be rather difficult.

Meanwhile, WTTV-DT, with its tower next to the WCLJ tower, is transmitting an omni-directional signal with less power (4.0kW) but has its transmitting antenna mounted at approximately 950 feet, providing a much better line-of-sight signal around the area.

"If you are into math, the approximate distance (in miles) to the radio horizon can be calculated by multiplying the square root of the antenna height (in feet) by 1.415 times. For example, the theoretical distance to the radio horizon for an antenna 1,000 feet above the ground is just under 45 miles." ................( Thanks to www.dxfm.com )



FYI....Todd and Will, here's a good source to learn more about signal problems relating to trees and leaves.........

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html


Steve

Steve;
The primer.com antenna site is excellent. Very informative. Makes me wonder how any of us get anything over the air!
I found their following statement quite interesting:
"You will never get dropout-free reception every day beyond 60 miles for UHF, 80 miles for VHF, no matter how good your antenna is."
I have a mapping program that shows me to be 72 miles from channel 23. I get that baby (with no pixelation) about 99% of the time now.
I believe I should count my lucky stars....
I also enjoyed your discussion of channel 42's digital equivalent. I accept everything you have said, but with my very strong reception of 48 and 27 when I aim my antenna towards Trafalgar, I can't comprehend why I can't get 56, even at only 550 feet. I used to get it regularly with an inferior setup. Did the math using your forumula above, and found that the difference between 48 and 56 should be 33 vrs. 44 miles. I'm only 25 miles away.
And, the service areas as shown by the FCC are very similar for 48 and 56. Both easily cover Bloomington.
Digital is baffling.

Nat

Originally posted by nathill
Steve;
I also enjoyed your discussion of channel 42's digital equivalent. I accept everything you have said, but with my very strong reception of 48 and 27 when I aim my antenna towards Trafalgar, I can't comprehend why I can't get 56, even at only 550 feet. I used to get it regularly with an inferior setup. Did the math using your forumula above, and found that the difference between 48 and 56 should be 33 vrs. 44 miles. I'm only 25 miles away.
And, the service areas as shown by the FCC are very similar for 48 and 56. Both easily cover Bloomington.
Digital is baffling.

Nat

Hey Nat, when did you lose your reception of DT-56? Could its disappearance correspond to the recent leaves coming out on the trees? Just a thought.

I live 36 miles north of DT-56's tower and with their very directional signal to the SW I can't get it at all.

Steve

Originally posted by goldrich
Hey Nat, when did you lose your reception of DT-56? Could its disappearance correspond to the recent leaves coming out on the trees? Just a thought.

I live 36 miles north of DT-56's tower and with their very directional signal to the SW I can't get it at all.

Steve

Hi Steve;
I really don't have a good handle on when I lost DT-56. I just recently decided where to put my tower and rotor. When I pointed the antenna towards Trafalgar I noticed that DT-56 doesn't come in.
I'm pretty lucky in regards to trees and leaves. They're not part of the mix in my situation. It's pretty much line of sight.
Nat

Originally posted by nathill
Steve;
The primer.com antenna site is excellent.
...
I found their following statement quite interesting:
"You will never get dropout-free reception every day beyond 60 miles for UHF, 80 miles for VHF, no matter how good your antenna is."

Nat

That's not true. I get essentially completely reliable reception of WRSP-DT,
channel 44, from 68 miles. It seems to be unavailable only when the
sun is directly in line with the transmitter as seen from my house,
just like a satellite dish. I'm using a 16 element cut to channel
Yagi and a 0.6 dB noise figure preamp ($116) ... looking out a
window of my house at 25 feet above the ground. This antenna
also gets all but one of our other stations (I'm in Champaign ...
interestingly, I reliably get WRTV-DT 25 in the fall, using
a different antenna, but no other Indy channel.)

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
That's not true. I get essentially completely reliable reception of WRSP-DT,
channel 44, from 68 miles. It seems to be unavailable only when the
sun is directly in line with the transmitter as seen from my house,
just like a satellite dish. I'm using a 16 element cut to channel
Yagi and a 0.6 dB noise figure preamp ($116) ... looking out a
window of my house at 25 feet above the ground. This antenna
also gets all but one of our other stations (I'm in Champaign ...
interestingly, I reliably get WRTV-DT 25 in the fall, using
a different antenna, but no other Indy channel.)

Doug McDonald

I'm thinking of the line "Never say never," and the song by Albert Hammond, "It Never Rains In Southern California." The author of the article probably should "never" have used that word relating to reception. When it comes to TV reception almost anything can or can't happen when you least expect it. I'm not supposed to receive WTWC-DT 2, Tallahassee, FL but I DID receive it for a few seconds last July during some intense Es (E-skip) conditions.

One thing that helps you, Doug, is the antenna height of most of your stations in central Illinois. Using the same line-of-sight formula for WRSP-DT with an antenna height of 1360 feet, that would give the signal a distance of 52 miles before theoretically hitting the ground. Along with the fairly flat terrain in your area, I'm sure that the signal from this station would carry beyond that distance.

Disclaimer: Your reception mileage may vary.

Steve

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jdmcdonald
[I'm using a 16 element cut to channel
Yagi and a 0.6 dB noise figure preamp ($116).)

Doug;
One thing I've figured out by trial and error is how important the low noise side of the equation is. Seems to be a lot more important than the gain.
What model and manufacturer IS your preamp, if I may so bold as to ask?
.6dB sounds awfully quiet....
Nat

I haven't been getting the Tonight Show in HD for a few weeks it seems. Has anyone else had this problem? It looks like garbage on 13-1

Originally posted by NickIndy
I haven't been getting the Tonight Show in HD for a few weeks it seems. Has anyone else had this problem? It looks like garbage on 13-1

Yep, Leno and Conan often don't record very well on my Tivo. Usually blocky and then green then the recording stops. 13 during the day seems to be ok.

Originally posted by nathill
Doug;
One thing I've figured out by trial and error is how important the low noise side of the equation is. Seems to be a lot more important than the gain.
What model and manufacturer IS your preamp, if I may so bold as to ask?
.6dB sounds awfully quiet....
Nat
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:RDThVExEImgJ:avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fs%3D%26goto%3Dnewpost%26threadid%3D%2509195 213+0.6+dB+preamp+%24116&hl=en
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page12.html

Thanks for the info guys. I went with a LG3510a OTA receiver. It does a good job of picking up the weaker signals. I first tried a terk HDTVi antenna, and now I'm using a terk indoor/outdoor multidirectional. The latter definitely works better for me. I'm gonna try to read up, so when I return to school I can work on getting a few more channels. Any other sites besides the forum that have good info on cabling, pre-amps, etc. ?

Thanks,
~Will

Don't know if there has been a change that has already been discussed, but just about everyone around Indianapolis can not receive WTTV Channel 4 OTA. Even being in Noblesville I have never been able to see the other Channel 4, WTTK WB 29 out of Kokomo. Well all that has changed when I went to DISH after VOOM departed. I am still using the VOOM supplied outside antenna ran to DISH's new 942 HD DVR. This is the Stealth # 3310 antenna and it is pointed south to receive all Indianapolis stations and works great in my location. The 942 does power @12V the antenna like the VOOM receiver did, but never anything from the NORTH? Have tried before other antennas to pick up Channel 29 but never received a signal. Now that I can receive channel 29 OTA and in HD if they supply it, is it true that they will not cover any Pacers Games next year? They stated on their last broadcast that this was the last game they would broadcast. Did not say just this year or Reggie's last game but their last broadcast. Wife saw this too. Did they loose the rights? Who will pick these games up? Thanks!

Last night I noticed that Fox 59 changed there HDTV logo. Thanks to who ever did it at fox now with show with a lot of black you dont have that bright becon in the lower right.

Thanks
Brad

I know this is a bit off topic as this is not a flea market forum, but...

I recently got the Directv HD TIVO and am going to be selling my other HD receiver. If anyone local is interested in a Sony SAT-HD100 let me know.
Unit is in great condition with working remote, manual, cables and box.

-mike

Can anyone tell me why the ABC broadcast was in HD for only the first half? I think it has something to do with the weather alert, but I don't know why. And if this is the reason, is this going to be resolved soon? It was very sad that we lost, etc and Reggie's last game, but I had to endure it in non-HD too, brought tears to my eyes.
Andrea

Originally posted by drsimnal
Can anyone tell me why the ABC broadcast was in HD for only the first half? I think it has something to do with the weather alert, but I don't know why. And if this is the reason, is this going to be resolved soon? It was very sad that we lost, etc and Reggie's last game, but I had to endure it in non-HD too, brought tears to my eyes.
Andrea

ABC did not televise any portion of last night's game in HD. Yes, the bad news now is that the Pacers are out of the playoffs and Reggie's playing days are over. The good news is that the balance of the NBA playoff games will be, or at least scheduled to be, in HD.

Steve

I agree with you I would love to see real HD news in the Indy area. Any insider know of any stations planning one in th NEAR future?


Originally posted by bradyusi
I just wish someone in Indy would start producing some HD news.. shooting in HD would be awesome. (and no.. not upconverted SD shot in 16:9.. gimme the real thing) It would make me want to WATCH the news.. not just LISTEN to it! There are some awesome photogs in this market, and I'm sure they could make some beautiful HDTV!

Did anyone else notice just how poor the picture quality was of ABC's rebroadcast of the Indy 500 especially in comparison to the Fox broadcast of the NASCAR race in NC? ABC looked rather bad to me for even upconverted standard definition. This is not even considering that it was in distort-o-vision also.

The regular NTSC broadcast over cable was equally bad so it's not like it was just the upconversion to HD.

It wasn't just you. There's a thread in the HD programming forum about how poor the PQ was -- blurry, dark, washed-out colors, lackluster production values. Even for SD, it was a lousy effort.

An exciting race, a really bad broadcast. Everyone who saw it should complain to ABC. First they let Monday Night Football go to ESPN and now they disrespect on one America's premier sporting traditions.

FYI, I'm in Richmond, VA, but my family lives in Carmel and I've had the pleasure of attending a half-dozen Indy 500s live. Watching it on TV is an annual holiday tradition at my house, and I've never seen it look worse.

I was working at the track during the rebroadcast and didn't get a chance to take a look at the program, but here is how ABC is handled.

Analog C-band is pulled down at the transmitter site on the northwest side of Indianapolis and transmitted to the studio by microwave. After the transparent bug is inserted, the signal is digitized (Video and Audio). Both live and delayed ABC are handled as digital video and audio from that point on, as are all local programs and commercials.

After all of the bugs, weather keys, EAS crawls, etc. are inserted the signal is split and the digital side is run through a Leitch Juno upconverter to take it from 480i to 720p this is where the crop and aspect ratio conversions take place. The decisions about the amount of crop and aspect ratio conversion were made at a level above me, so please don't complain here as I can do nothing about it. The signal is then MPEG encoded, muxed with the AC-3 audio, merged with the second stream and PSIP is added.

It then goes by digital microwave to the transmitter, and out to the viewing public. The analog side goes through a D-A, has VITS added and then feeds the analog half of the microwave to the transmitter.

Once something is digitized on its way in, it is handled as digital Video and Audio from that point on in the plant.

We are currently in the process of installing the new dishes at the studio for receiving Digital ABC (SD) which will eliminate the microwave and digitizing steps.

As for the broadcast, I know that the production truck was digital, but I think that the signal went back to TOC-NY on analog C-Band. It probably went through at least 2 or more encode-decode cycles before you saw it.

"Real" HD is received on C-Band digitally at both the studio and transmitter and we choose the one with the best available quality for broadcast. Non-delayed programming is fed straight to an MPEG decoder and AC-3 decoder and the HD-SDI video and AES Digital audio streams are switched in routing switcher, where upconverted commercials, and local HD programs (some of the Billy Graham crusades have been in HD off of Video Tape) as well as upconverted programming (which compromises the bulk of the day), are switched into the feed.

This switched feed is what is fed to the MPEG encoder. The commercials on HD are rolled from a different disk recorder than the SD commercials and we really do try to get the automation timing right so that it doesn't cut things off.

Delayed HD is accomplished by running the Transport Stream (what comes out of the digital satellite receiver) into a computer with an ASI input/output card and a bunch of disks . It takes about 50GB to record an hour of HD at the rate (45Mb/s) that it comes from ABC.

The output of the Delay box feeds a second decoder that is also connected into the router, and the automation can be programmed to take HDN2 (stereo audio), HDN5 (5.1 audio), HDD2 (Delayed, stereo audio), HDD5 (Delayed, 5.1 Audio), VS (Video server, locally inserted content), or MC-Air (SD content intended for analog).

Switching of the AC-3 Audio Encoder is completely automatic and driven by the tally output of the Router. HDD2 and HDD5 will cause it to switch to 5.1 mode anything else will cause it to revert to 2.0 (Stereo)

Paul Roehm
Maintenance Department
WRTV, Indianapolis
paul_roehm@wrtv.com

I was working at the track during the rebroadcast and didn't get a chance to take a look at the program, but here is how ABC is handled. ...........


Paul Roehm
Maintenance Department
WRTV, Indianapolis
paul_roehm@wrtv.com

Paul;
Thanks so much for taking us for an "inside look" at all of the complexities involved in the broadcasting process. I found it very informative.
I'm not an engineer and can't begin to understand everything you wrote, but it is clear to me that the transition from analog to digital is more of a continuing experiment than established science.
Your local news sub-channel has a great picture, and I'm guessing you don't give it much bandwidth.
I hope ABC catches up to you soon. The overall quality of their typical sports broadcast is really not very good, and my digital picture quality on these events is often worse than the analog picture.
The problem with ABC sports has got to be the ABC signal sent to you, it would seem to me. Your Monday Night Football picture is unrivaled.
Again, I appreciate your explanation. It is much appreciated and certainly not something you owe any of us.

Nat

Paul,
Thanks for the reply. As to the grumbles on both picture quality and aspect ratio I realize you can do little about it since it's a network feed. All I can hope is that if enough noise is made it will make it back up the line to the decision makers who apparently think we don't care or won't notice. There is something wrong when Danica looks 5'1" and 150 pounds :(.

As to the picture quality I don't know where it fell off. The multiple analog/digital/analog conversions, low bit rate digital somewhere, low bandwidth analog or something I don't even profess to understand. I compared the analog cable feed and the HD OTA broadcast and ended up just watching the the cable since the image was comparable and the aspect was correct. It was washed out/flat with very low detail. The best comparison I could make was a VHS recording at EP of a so so signal. Even some of the non-vidiots I work with noticed this.

Again no reflection or attack on you. I've seen the same superb broadcast quality that Nat mentioned on WRTV-DT. I'm just hoping that these comments make their way back to the network to the folks that decided this was good enough.

BTW, if you want to send this back to the network include that even the girl who cuts my hair noticed the whole 4.5 hours came off like a human interest story/commercial with an occasional by the way there's this race going on.

Thanks for taking the time to explain how this is done. The whole process is fascinating.

Does anybody know if there is a place on the web that you can see a map of the coverage areas for Brighthouse and Comcast in the Indy metro area? Also, is it possible if you live in a Brighthouse area to get Comcast service? And why is it that Comcast blows Brighthouse out of the water when it comes to HDTV services?

Ok, with all the technical talk about signal strengths and OTA I hope I am even in the right place, so be gentle if I violate some aspect of netiquette with my question.

I'm in Bloomington, and my wife and I are building a house where the direction of Indy is I believe straight into a treeline at the edge of Bloomington Country Club's golf course roughly south of town. I doubt we are going to have much luck OTA with anything. So we're likely going to go with Insight since we also use their digital broadband cable internet service.

First, if anyone can comment on what I can expect with a roughly 50-52" DLP as far as SD over Insight, that would be useful. (I'll be likely getting the RD50A from Visual Apex, or something from Sears or HHGregg if I can get the price under 2k with a sale + pricematch, pm me if you know of any great local deals going on)

Second, does anyone know offhand what I'll have to pay for HD content through Insight? What will I get for that extra fee?

Third, and I know this is more a reflection of the source rather than the delivery, what would an Insight customer typically get in 720p vs. 1080i? Do NFL games, the NCAA tournament and the like come in 720p? Any information in this area would be greatly appreciated.

Fourth, would I be much better off from an image quality stand point to try OTA or satellite? Would the pricing be equivalent?

Once again, sorry for the n00b questions, I haven't had a chance to go through all 58 pages of this thread, although I did look at the last couple. Thanks much for any information provided.

Ysaric,

I can't tell you about Insight, but if you can get channels over the air from Bloomington, they will look better than what you can get on Cable or Satellite. Both of them tend to further compress the broadcaster's signal in order to save bandwidth.

Fox carries pretty much all of their football games in 720p, but CBS only carries their top 2 games per week in 1080i... all others are still in standard definition. I figured last year that CBS would have the Colts in HD almost all the time... but they didn't. They ALWAYS carried the Patriots in HD, even if they played a crap team. Your only hope was that the Colts were on Sunday Night Football on ESPN, Monday Night Football on ABC, or they played an NFC team and Fox carried it. Fortunately they were still in HD 7 or 8 times last year during the regular season.

As far as satellite, I have DirecTV. I bought it for NFL Sunday Ticket... everyone who has DirecTV this year is really upset because they have announced that they are charging an extra $99 to carry all of the NFL games in HD... last year it was free. Other than that, I think their pricing is good... but that all depends on how well you can get channels over the air from Bloomington.

Hello,

In the hopes that Tom Weber may still be reading this forum, I'd like to ask that he pass on to the station management that WISH consider not stretching their digital picture when displaying a show in SD. It's really unfortunate to have to watch TV in this format. My set doesn't have an option to reformat stretched 16:9 on a digital input into the correct 4:3, so the only alternative is to record the inferior analog cable channel.

WISH has a lot of great SD programming that is ruined by the distortion. Letterman, Survivor, Amazing Race, tonight's Tony Awards, WISH's local news, and the list goes on.

Does anyone else hate The Stretch, or do most people actually like having a distorted image fill their screen just so they don't see a the black bars?

Thanks,
Jeff

First, if anyone can comment on what I can expect with a roughly 50-52" DLP as far as SD over Insight, that would be useful.

standard def over insight on my 65" Mitsubishi is tolerable on some channels, horrible on others. Use the TV tuner, the analog channels through the component outputs using the cable box as a tuner is awful.

Second, does anyone know offhand what I'll have to pay for HD content through Insight? What will I get for that extra fee?

I pay $86.05 per month for basic + classic, the HD pak and HBO, taxes, fees, etc. insight-com.com can give you the pricing breakdown.

Third, and I know this is more a reflection of the source rather than the delivery, what would an Insight customer typically get in 720p vs. 1080i? Do NFL games, the NCAA tournament and the like come in 720p? Any information in this area would be greatly appreciated.

As far as I have been able to tell, the Motorola 6208 box that Insight is currently providing does not have 720p as an option. I assume everything is getting converted to 1080i somewhere along the way. Supposed to be a dual-tuner box coming sometime, but who knows if it will have the ability to output 720p.

Fourth, would I be much better off from an image quality stand point to try OTA or satellite? Would the pricing be equivalent?

Once again, sorry for the n00b questions, I haven't had a chance to go through all 58 pages of this thread, although I did look at the last couple. Thanks much for any information provided.

I'm not far from where you are building. PM me if you want to arrange a time to stop by and see what Insight looks like on my screen.

Bill

I've copied your message, printed it out and will place it in the mailbox of the person in charge of stuff like that.

Tom

Third, and I know this is more a reflection of the source rather than the delivery, what would an Insight customer typically get in 720p vs. 1080i? Do NFL games, the NCAA tournament and the like come in 720p? Any information in this area would be greatly appreciated.

As far as I have been able to tell, the Motorola 6208 box that Insight is currently providing does not have 720p as an option. I assume everything is getting converted to 1080i somewhere along the way. Supposed to be a dual-tuner box coming sometime, but who knows if it will have the ability to output 720p.

Wait, wait, wait . . . what? This can't be right, can it? Are you saying that the tuner provided by Insight will take native 720p, say Monday Night Football, convert that 720p to 1080i, then a 720p DLP would have to take that 1080i and re-convert it to 720p? Please say that's not true. My assumption is that a box like the 6208 will pass through HDTV signals in their presented format, that being either 1080i or 720p.

Thank you for your offer to see Insight in person. I may take you up on that. Are you on the north or south side? Do you have an OTA antenna and can you pick up HD channels out of Indy?

Wait, wait, wait . . . what? This can't be right, can it? Are you saying that the tuner provided by Insight will take native 720p, say Monday Night Football, convert that 720p to 1080i, then a 720p DLP would have to take that 1080i and re-convert it to 720p? Please say that's not true. My assumption is that a box like the 6208 will pass through HDTV signals in their presented format, that being either 1080i or 720p.

Thank you for your offer to see Insight in person. I may take you up on that. Are you on the north or south side? Do you have an OTA antenna and can you pick up HD channels out of Indy?

I'm not going to say it's not possible, but I have never found it. There is a thread in the HDTV Hardware section labeled: Official AVS Comcast/Cableco Moto 5100/6200 Topic! that might be worth reading.

If you want to stop by, all I can offer is Insight. I'm in a condo so an antenna isn't really practical. I have my doubts that I could get OTA without a huge antenna/mast setup as far South as I am. But if you're interested in what Insight might look like and not side by side comparisons I can offer that.

I'm on the South side, in Peppergrass off Walnut St. Pike if you know where that is. I think you were building near the country club, so it can't be more than 2 or 3 miles.

Bill

This post is probably geared more toward Paul from RTV, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has noticed this issue. It's not necessarily an HD issue, but I've noticed recently that some spots on WRTV seem to (at least to my ears) play consistently out of phase. Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be some degree of audio phase issue with the news opens on WRTV (opening news animations with the announcer VO), and on NC64, the Community Calendar open, for example, definitely sounds out of phase. Again, I don't have any equipment or program to analyze audio phase and validate my suspicions, but just thought I'd see if anyone has noticed this as well. Aside from the clips that seem to be consistently out of phase, everything else sounds just fine.

I've copied your message, printed it out and will place it in the mailbox of the person in charge of stuff like that.

Tom

Tom,
You can add me to that list also. I absolutely hate having 4:3 SD stretched to fit 16:9. Depending on my mood at the time I think of it as Distort-o-Vision or Fat-o-Vision. I can fix it but it's a pain. Down rez to 480p, go into my PJ set-up and change from HDTV mode and then I can squeeze it down to 4:3. Usually it's just to much trouble and I just watch something else.

At least this is better then WRTV. The network feed seems to stretch and zoom it a bit so if you just squeeze back to 4:3 everything is tall and skinny. This looks just as bad and doesn't have a fix besides. Again the easy solution is change the channel.

For me anyway I'd far prefer window box, pillar box or whatever you want to call it.

Not to pile on, Tom, but I'd have to say go with the pillar-box also. Due to only having 3 cable runs to my living room, I've moved the second line over to my HDTivo from my SDTivo. So, not only would I get a clearer picture on WISH-DT, but I would lessen the conflicts on my SDTivo.

Ditto.

Fox carries pretty much all of their football games in 720p, but CBS only carries their top 2 games per week in 1080i... all others are still in standard definition. I figured last year that CBS would have the Colts in HD almost all the time... but they didn't. They ALWAYS carried the Patriots in HD, even if they played a crap team. Your only hope was that the Colts were on Sunday Night Football on ESPN, Monday Night Football on ABC, or they played an NFC team and Fox carried it. Fortunately they were still in HD 7 or 8 times last year during the regular season.

CBS did show the Colts in HD several times, though not every week. I believe that the total number of regular season HD games was 12 (including CBS, Fox, ABC & ESPN).

Back to the topic at hand, I would also prefer pillarboxing on WISH-DT (and WRTV & WTHR). I am much more likely to watch WXIN & WTTV because they don't stretch their 4:3 programming.

I do understand what you are hearing. For some reason, what comes out of the non-linear suites seems to be really wide. (Like it is delayed on one channel only.) Really out of phase would trigger a light on the monitoring amplifiers. What you are hearing should be in Mono. Everything you mentioned is coming out of the control room, and gets mixed to mono as part of the process. I will try to take a look at it, but it will take time to get everything filtered through.

p:


This post is probably geared more toward Paul from RTV, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has noticed this issue. It's not necessarily an HD issue, but I've noticed recently that some spots on WRTV seem to (at least to my ears) play consistently out of phase. Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be some degree of audio phase issue with the news opens on WRTV (opening news animations with the announcer VO), and on NC64, the Community Calendar open, for example, definitely sounds out of phase. Again, I don't have any equipment or program to analyze audio phase and validate my suspicions, but just thought I'd see if anyone has noticed this as well. Aside from the clips that seem to be consistently out of phase, everything else sounds just fine.

I noticed when I went to visit my family in Terre Haute this weekend that Fox 38 is no longer WBAK, but is now WFXW... I drove by the old WBAK studios on 1st and Poplar, and it was all boarded up. Who bought WBAK? Does anyone know if the new owners are more likely to eventually convert to 720p instead of 480i?

I noticed when I went to visit my family in Terre Haute this weekend that Fox 38 is no longer WBAK, but is now WFXW... I drove by the old WBAK studios on 1st and Poplar, and it was all boarded up. Who bought WBAK? Does anyone know if the new owners are more likely to eventually convert to 720p instead of 480i?

I'm sure your current post relates to my post on 9-11-04 when I said in part...."Recently I read that WBAK is now under some type of LMA (Local Marketing Agreement) with Nexstar, the owner of WTWO." I'm not certain, but I'm fairly sure that WFXW (WBAK) was moved into the WTWO studios on U.S. 41 just south of Farmersburg. A number of stations across the country are doing this. For one thing, it's a way to cut expenses. For example, in Indy, WNDY now operates out of the WISH building and WIPX operates out of the WTHR building.

Also, I believe, shortly after this LMA took affect was when Fox 38 stopped airing WTHI news at 10 p.m. and started airing WTWO news.

Steve

WFXW 38 is ...
MISSION BROADCASTING, INC.
544 RED ROCK DRIVE
WADSWORTH, OH 44281

They took on the new call letters June 1st, 2005, (previously WBAK-TV since 4/20/79 and WBAK prior to then). Their digital STA is for 1.2kw@260m and they want 1000kw@282m. They are probably waiting for fuller power before bothering with HD ...

Details: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=wfxw

JL

I need a little help from the Forum and hope you can give me an answer. My father-in-law has a 10' dish and he does NOT subscribe to D*. He is in Muncie and has, in addition to his big dish, Comcast cable. I have an old Hughes E-86 that I am not using at this time and offered to bring it to his house and hook it up to his big dish and see what sort of High Def programming we could get. He has a 4DTV box and a Toshiba 47" HD monitor. I am aware that you can use the E-86 for the OTA portion to pick up all that is available, and I am aware that you can NOT get D* without a subscription, but I really have not seen any mention of what you might get off of a big dish. Sorry I don't know the proper names for the "big dish". He has had his HD set for about 3 years now and still has never seen a HD picture on his set, because of the high cost of the STB. Any and all help will be apprecieated and any tips as well will be well received.

Thanks in advance guys
Tom Smalley aka coolray

I don't think you will get anything via satellite. A D* receiver will likely only pick up D* encrypted signals. Just like an FM radio won't pick up a TV signal.

4DTV is capable of receiving HD, I think. It may require an add-on unit. But very little HD resides on C-Band (the name for the signal received by BUDs (big ugly dishes) because the subscriber base is constantly shrinking. The only real advantage is a pristine analog signal that is, IMHO, superior to anything digital. I never got the 4DTV setup for my 10' dish because it was way more expensive than going with a small dish. Still don't have HD on it, but did go with OTA set-top box. I don't see the price as being prohibitive (under $200). And the options are almost nil.

4DTV is capable of receiving HD, I think.
Yes, an add on HD decoder is necessary. I still have a complete set up, although I don't use it any longer. But it is the best way to get what the source intends to be seen.

Also, to "coolray", you're talking apples and oranges, when thinking you can receive small dish programming using a 10' dish. There are retrofit kits available, I believe, but the two are in different areas of RF spectrum, and as I recall, the small dish stuff is circularly polarized, where standard C and KU-Band satellites transmit either vertically or horizontally polarized signals.

Ken

I started into HD OTA about a month and a half ago and was able to get WISH CBS 9, but the last 3 or so weeks I can't get anything.

I'm over in the fishers/geist area. I get FOX 45, PBS 21, ABC 25, NBC 46, and can even tune in UPN 32 from Marion - though I drop some frames.

I'm guessing everyone else is doing ok with this since I don't see any other messages, but I thought I would post for a sanity check.

Using a cheap $40 indoor antenna, but it's the same I was using to start with when wish 9 came in fine.

Any suggestions?

Brad

I started into HD OTA about a month and a half ago and was able to get WISH CBS 9, but the last 3 or so weeks I can't get anything.

I'm over in the fishers/geist area. I get FOX 45, PBS 21, ABC 25, NBC 46, and can even tune in UPN 32 from Marion - though I drop some frames.

I'm guessing everyone else is doing ok with this since I don't see any other messages, but I thought I would post for a sanity check.

Using a cheap $40 indoor antenna, but it's the same I was using to start with when wish 9 came in fine.

Any suggestions?

Brad

Brad,

I don't know why things would have changed during the past 3 weeks. Since WISH-DT 9 is a VHF channel, while the remaining DTV channels are UHF, is your antenna designed to receive both UHF and VHF? Some UHF antennas do fairly well receiving VHF signals, while others are quite poor. Given your location, you should be able to receive the local channels quite easily.

Also, you are not very far from UPN 32's (WNDY-DT) tall tower just north of Noblesville. Its 1000kW signal should be booming in. Since its signal does come from a different direction than WISH, WXIN, etc., you might have to readjust your indoor antenna a little.

As has been discussed here several times, sometimes TV reception is all about the location of the antenna. Sometimes moving it a few feet, or sometimes just a few inches, can make a huge difference. Due to buildings, trees, the effects of multipath signals, etc., there are hot and cold signal spots. Good luck and welcome to AVS Forum.

Steve

I just received this lengthy and very detailed update from Rick:

Steve
............................................................ ........................................

To all DTV viewers interested in receiving WTTV's digital signal that
currently cannot:

The FCC has granted the owners of WTTV an experimental license to build a
2nd WTTK-DT transmitter at Indianapolis, specifically at the WXIN
transmitter site. This new low-power transmitter will be on the same
channel as the current WTTK-DT at Windfall, and will show up on your
receiver as 29-1. The experiment involves testing what happens to reception
where the signals from Indianapolis and Windfall overlap (hopefully good
things due to new technology). As an added bonus, this new WTTK-DT
transmitter should provide WTTV's HD signal to most of Indianapolis, Carmel,
and Fishers. So, if you live in one of these areas you should soon be
seeing WTTK-DT on the air as 29-1 on OTA channel 54.

Part of the experiment involves REDUCING the power at Windfall, so that the
overlap zone does not fall in a highly populated area. Therefore, while we
still must maintain a certain level of signal in all of Kokomo, some of you
who do now receive WTTK-DT may experience a loss in signal level or loss of
signal altogether. Since this is going to be an experiment, we will be very
interested in your comments as to whether you have better reception or worse
and if possible by how much. So feel free to email me at this address to
report your change in reception, good or bad.

Another facet of this is that the experiment is only for 1 year, so I cannot
guarentee what we will do at the end of the experimental period. It may be
that we can renew the experimental license, or we may do something else.
All that will depend on the results of this experiment. Ultimately, we will
endeavor to cover the entire licensed coverage area of WTTK-DT, but exactly
how we do that will depend on the results of this experiment.

The exact sign-on date of this experiment is not known yet, as the equipment
is currently not in place. We expect to have equipment in the next month or
so, and it is not too complicated to hook up. So, we could be on the air by
the end of July. I will send further notice when we are on the air, or when
I know a sign-on date, if I know ahead of time (we may just turn it on one
day).

For those of you interested in cooperating with the technical aspects of
this experiment, if you do now receive WTTK-DT you might want to make a note
of your current signal level, if your receiver provides one somewhere.
Then, when the new transmitter comes on the air, you'll want to take another
reading. Those of you who do NOT receive WTTK-DT now, I already know who
you are, but I will want to hear from you if you do get a signal.

Another part of this experiment will involve taking some field strength
measurements and other measurements relative to making this system work as
advertised. So, if you do lose reception and you are in an area where we
think you should have signal, we may even be able to visit your driveway
with our measuring equipment. Don't be shy about letting us know how your
reception changes with this experiment, as this information will be included
in our reports to the broadcasting industry and the FCC.

For the rest of you, this experiment will have NO effect on WTTV-DT
(Trafalgar) or WXIN-DT. Your reception will not change at all. If you
currently DO receive WTTV-DT, it is likely you will NOT get WTTK-DT from
Indianapolis, with the possible exception of some of you viewers in the Avon
and Southport areas and other areas of southern Marion county, which may be
able to see WTTK-DT on their antennas that are now pointed at WXIN-DT and
the other Indianapolis DTV stations. I would like to here from these
particular folks also, as your comments regarding not having to move your
antenna anymore to get WTTV-DT will also be valuable.

In summary, WTTK-DT will be on the air with a second transmitter from
Indianapolis, possibly as soon as the latter part of July. We are very
interested in what happens to your reception when this comes on the air.

To all of those who have written in the past about not being able to get
WTTV-DT or WTTK-DT, thanks for your patience. The wait will soon be over.

Rick Poling
RF Supervisor
WTTK-TV 29
WTTK-DT 54
WTTV WB 4
WTTV-DT 48
WXIN FOX 59
WXIN-DT 45

Regarding my inability to get WISH-DT 9

Steve,

I think you are right. My antenna is highly directional UHF only. Zenith Silver something if I remember correctly - which explains both of the issues I was 3 messages back.

Brad