I just received this lengthy and very detailed update from Rick:

Steve
............................................................ ........................................

To all DTV viewers interested in receiving WTTV's digital signal that
currently cannot:

The FCC has granted the owners of WTTV an experimental license to build a
2nd WTTK-DT transmitter at Indianapolis, specifically at the WXIN
transmitter site. <snip>

Cool, maybe we'll be able to see Big 10 basketball a little clearer now (then).

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. I live on the very west edge of Danville. Most of the local Indy stations show around 25 miles away from my house. I'm planning on switching to Directv soon and want to have HD locals available through an antenna. Any recommendations? It has to be in the attic and I really only care about the 4 main stations out of Indy. Anything else would just be a bonus. I also know that this isn't a job I can handle. Any good installers in the area to do the job? Thanks for any advice.

PS Are any of the local weather stations available via antenna even if they are standard definition?

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. I live on the very west edge of Danville. Most of the local Indy stations show around 25 miles away from my house. I'm planning on switching to Directv soon and want to have HD locals available through an antenna. Any recommendations? It has to be in the attic and I really only care about the 4 main stations out of Indy. Anything else would just be a bonus. I also know that this isn't a job I can handle. Any good installers in the area to do the job? Thanks for any advice.

PS Are any of the local weather stations available via antenna even if they are standard definition?

At 25 miles you should be fine with a good UHF/VHF antenna in the attic. I recently tested reception of the Indy DTV stations inside a house in Kokomo (36-39 miles) and I found it rather easy to receive WTHR-DT, WXIN-DT and WRTV-DT. The only main network station I could not receive was WISH-DT, and it was just below the lock-in position. In addition, you should be able to receive WFYI-DT and, per the previous post from Rick Poling at WTTV/WTTK, within about 6-10 weeks you should/might (?) be able to receive WTTK-DT 54, the translator station for WTTV-DT 48.

I'm not sure who to call for your installation. Many of us here have installed them ourselves. Depending on the needs of your installation, I would be happy to help out. Send me a PM if you'd like to discuss this option. Otherwise, hopefully someone else will have a good suggestion for you.

Yes, you can receive WISH-TV's weather channel via one of WISH-DT's subchannels plus their 24/7 weather radar on another subchannel, and WTHR provides their weather channel via a subchannel of WTHR-DT. Both are presented in standard definition. Most of the DTV bandwidth is reserved for the network HD broadcasts.

Steve

I live in Avon, right off 267 and am using a $14 radioshack antenna which lets me pick up the following DTV stations 6,8,13,20,23,59. You may want to try a little testing before you get overly involved. Do you currently have Directv or are you going to be a new subscriber? If you are doing a new install I believe the SAT install guys will do the anteanna install. Only problem is those guys are often boobs.

Here is the link to the antenna I am using
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D624

Is that radioshack model in your attic? I didn't think I'd be able to get away with a model like that up there. I dread the Directv install. I've not met an installer yet that I trusted not to mess something up. They either don't seem to care or don't know what they are doing. Thanks for both of your replies.

I actually have the antenna just off to the side of the TV. It's about the size of a small pizza box. It's small enough you really don't even notice it.

I dread the Directv install. I've not met an installer yet that I trusted not to mess something up. They either don't seem to care or don't know what they are doing. Thanks for both of your replies.

A friend at Ovation recommended Claude at Tronics 2000 (298-8955) to me for DirectTV. I haven't tried yet since with my trees and general lack of Southern exposure it's going to be $$$ but he's never steered me wrong before. I have no idea if they can do one of those package deals you see advertised or not so it may be more expensive.

Let me know how it comes out if you try. The feedback is useful good or bad. The guy at Ovation won't continue recommending anyone that doesn't make for satisfied customers. Of course YMMV etc etc...

I also get all 6 Indy stations with a small RS antenna set up in the attic.

I may give him a call. If anyone else has a suggestion for a Directv installer, let me know. I'm waiting for Aug 1st when Directv has it new equipment offers. I'm hoping to pick up some cheaper HD Dvrs.

At 25 miles you should be fine with a good UHF/VHF antenna in the attic. I recently tested reception of the Indy DTV stations inside a house in Kokomo (36-39 miles) and I found it rather easy to receive WTHR-DT, WXIN-DT and WRTV-DT. The only main network station I could not receive was WISH-DT, and it was just below the lock-in position. In addition, you should be able to receive WFYI-DT and, per the previous post from Rick Poling at WTTV/WTTK, within about 6-10 weeks you should/might (?) be able to receive WTTK-DT 54, the translator station for WTTV-DT 48.

I'm not sure who to call for your installation. Many of us here have installed them ourselves. Depending on the needs of your installation, I would be happy to help out. Send me a PM if you'd like to discuss this option. Otherwise, hopefully someone else will have a good suggestion for you.

Yes, you can receive WISH-TV's weather channel via one of WISH-DT's subchannels plus their 24/7 weather radar on another subchannel, and WTHR provides their weather channel via a subchannel of WTHR-DT. Both are presented in standard definition. Most of the DTV bandwidth is reserved for the network HD broadcasts.

Steve

I have a quick question reguarding this. I live in Columbus (approx 50 miles, give or take). What are my chances of picking up a quality signal down in my area. I am looking for something that could be an attic install. I know not the best route, but I don't want an antenna on the outside.

Anyone on here from Columbus care to share what they are using? Or anyone elses suggestions on what my options could be? Thanks in advance for any advice. Football season is just around the corner!!!!

I have a quick question reguarding this. I live in Columbus (approx 50 miles, give or take). What are my chances of picking up a quality signal down in my area. I am looking for something that could be an attic install. I know not the best route, but I don't want an antenna on the outside.

Anyone on here from Columbus care to share what they are using? Or anyone elses suggestions on what my options could be? Thanks in advance for any advice. Football season is just around the corner!!!!

I see that you haven't gotten any response from your area. The only DTV information I have from the Columbus area is through a friend of mine who lives north of Columbus near Taylorsville. He has a big all-channel antenna outside on a rotor and with a preamp on the line. He gets great reception from Indy and he reports that some of the Louisville stations are in frequently.

Steve

I see that you haven't gotten any response from your area. The only DTV information I have from the Columbus area is through a friend of mine who lives north of Columbus near Taylorsville. He has a big all-channel antenna outside on a rotor and with a preamp on the line. He gets great reception from Indy and he reports that some of the Louisville stations are in frequently.

Steve

Thanks for the info!! I don't really think the Indy section gets that many replys so I'll be patient w/ more answers.

Thanks!!

I am from the Columbus area.
I had a large antenna in my attic with success but kept having drop outs.
I have since then bought a Channel Master 3220 from Lowes with a Winegard Pre-amp and have mounted outside and am very happy.

Any other question let me know.
PM me and let me know were abouts in Columbus you live.

I recieve all channels from Indy
--------------------------------------------------------------

Mits - WS-65809
Kenwood - VR-507
Mits - DD-8030
Klipsch - Quintet System
Sony - SA-WM40 Sub
Directv Reciever - HR10-250 (TIVO)
Directv - HD package
OTA - ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX

As was mentioned, WNDY-TV is now coming out of the WISH-TV building. What this means in the short term, unfortunately, is that WNDY-DT will be upconverted-only for a while.

We have to build a new microwave path between the WISH studios and the WNDY transmitter, as we are unable to see adequately between the two sites. This means ordering additional equipment (about $125,000 worth). That has been done, but it will be a while for it to be delivered.

Tom Weber
WISH-TV Engineering, and now WNDY, too!

Who's a good guy to come and install an antenna in my attic? I live near IRP, and I still have the issue with 13-1 coming in and out. I also don't get WTTV or WTTK, and I get WNDY every so often. These amplified rabbit ears just aren't cutting it.

Tom;

<<< What this means in the short term, unfortunately, is that WNDY-DT will be upconverted-only for a while >>>.

Every village has to have an idiot, and right now he would seem to be me.
Does the above mean that the WNDY-TV digital signal will be upconverted for just a while instead of being broadcast in actual HDTV as it often is now? I hope so!
I receive your WNDY-DT digital signal quite well (about 90% of the time) in Bloomington, which really surprises me.
Thanks, Tom.

Nat

I searched almost all of this thread and can not find the answer, so here is my Question.

Can the INDY channels be received from Lafayette, IN? I tried the silver sensor and then a channel master with a booster and I can not seem to get any HD channels. Just wonder if I should keep trying? Thanks in advance

Location: West Lafayette, 1.6 miles from Airport Road west on highway 26 (The Orchard). 55 miles to Indy channels, 84 miles to Bloomington, 18 miles to Lafayette channel 18. Aim antenna at 130 degrees - get them all.

Here is my current configuration:
* $100 RadioShack VU-190XR 160" all-channel antenna in attic (two story home, no other buildings ubstracting the view, just few tree tops). For technical reasons, antenna is aimed at 120 degrees instead of 130.
* Channel Master Titan 7777 antenna preamp in the attic (A Must!). Had 10dB RadioShack preamp before - last week lightning fried it. Got Channel Master - much better noise performance, I see the difference in signal strength and picked up a couple more channels - bought from SolidSignal.
* Cable runs to basment. Preamp power supply in basement followed by $3 2-way splitter from WalMart, signals run to:
* Panasonic 61" 3LCD projection HDTV (CircuitCity) with built-in tuners
* Old Toshiba 27" CRT TV

Reception: in general, if you can see analog that is somewhat snowy, the HDTV (high def 720p or 1080i) and DT (digital regular 480i) come super, if analog is mostly snow - no digital comes through.

Channels I receive (some weaker sometimes die during day hours, but evenings and mornings work well):

4 (WTTV Bloomington, 83 miles away at 152 degrees)- mostly snowy, rarely good
6 (WRTV, RTV6, ABC) - snowy, sometimes good (evenings) on HDTV set, mostly OK on analog set
6.1 (WRTV-HDTV) - great 1080i quality. But: they always stretch 4:3 to 16:9, so you can only watch when they show movies that are originally 16:9. The 4:3 programs look terribly fat.
6.2 (WRTV-DT) - great 480i digital. This program is not the same as 6 or 6.1
8 (WISH, CBS) - sometimes snowy. Mostly OK on analog
8.1 (WISH-HDTV) 1080i version of 8. Super, but they always stretch 4:3 to 16:9
8.2 Digital, 480i super quality. Non-stop weather news?
13 (WTHR, NBC) - good, sometimes snowy on HDTV set
13.1 - HDTV version of 13 (1080i). Great quality, but they stretch 4:3 to 16:9 instead of letterboxing
13.2 - Good. If I remember correctly this is Indy weather radar
18 (WLFY) local analog channel, good
18.1 (WLFY-HDTV) - good 1080i quality version of analog 18 - but they stretch 4:3 to 16:9 - terrible. I only watch analog because of that
18.2 Digital, good. Local radar. Easier than connecting through computer
20 (WFYI, PBS) - good on analog TV, often snowy on HD
20.1 (HDTV PBS) - SUPER 720p, best quality among all hdtv OTA. My favorite. Note that it is not the same program as channel 20
20.2 - digital version of 20 analog. Good quality.
20.3 (Ideas) - digital, good quality
23 (WNDY) - mostly snowy, I did not see that with RadioShack preamp at all
23.1 (WNDY-HDTV) - often drops off
29 (WTTK, WB) somewhat snowy on hdef set, OK on analog. This comes from Kokomo and angle is not optimal
40 (WHMB) snowy. The station broadcasts at 50W power only, I guess this is the reason.
47(?) snowy
57 (TBN?) - no idea what it is, shows OK, but I don't watch it
59 (WXIN, FOX) - good
59.1 (WXIN-HDTV) - super, 720p. They letterbox 4:3 to 16:9 when needed - so you can really enyoj this super high def quality!

Future plan: install 91HG UHF-only (channels 14-69) antenna on roof. It has UHF gain 16 dB as opposed to 8dB of Radioshack antenna. I expect to get another 6-10 dB from the fact that it will not be in attic - i.e. signal strength may increase (net) ~5 times for UHF. I will keep the Radishack all-channel antenna in attic and use it only as VHF antenna - mix two antenna signals using the existing 7777 amplifier that has an option of separate inputs for VHF and UHF. It may be necessary to get a cheap VHF/UHF separator to block UHF signal from RadioShack antenn, but I guess it is done in the 7777 amp, they should filter inputs. In principle, the Radioshack antenna installed on roof will also make things better, but it is just too bulky and I don't want problems with neighbours, the UHF antenna is only 90" long and looks cool.
I am thinking about antenna rotator ($100 in Lowes). Some channels could be pulled out better with that (like channel 29 that is in Kokomo, it would be optimal at 100 degrees), or 15 from Champaign (it is very snowy now, but antenna must be aimed at 247 degrees). I never tried Chicago - perhaps with roof-top antenna it could be done, though I guess they are behind the horizon. Any info on that would be appreciated...

I searched almost all of this thread and can not find the answer, so here is my Question.

Can the INDY channels be received from Lafayette, IN? I tried the silver sensor and then a channel master with a booster and I can not seem to get any HD channels. Just wonder if I should keep trying? Thanks in advance

I believe Silver Sensor is an indoor UHF antenna with ~6-7 dB gain. Since it is supposedly close to your TV the preamp does not add much (no losses in wire from antenna to TV) unless your TV input noise level is higher. The Channel Master 7777 preamp has 2 dB noise level, probably better than most of the TV sets and that could help a little. But if you don't see any channels then it is not going to help. You will need to get antenna higher up. If there are buildings/trees/hills blocking view it may be not possible at all. Try to rise your in-door antenna to the top of your building - if you would not see anything then perhaps the signal is blocked and nothing would help...

I should say that with cheap in-door antenna I have trobles even receiving the local channel 18 in good quality. And I should not complain about my location - it is pretty high.

One more note - to the best of my knowledge, the HDTV channels broadcast does not occur at the same frequency channel as analog. For example, the local lafayette channel 18 comes on UHF frequency channel 18 as analog, but its 18.1 version is broadcast in VHF channel 11 at 30kW. So the UHF antenna does not get it well, though since it is close you might pick it up even with antenna optimized for UHF. And vice versa, WRTV (RTV6) broadcasts analog on VHF channel 6, and its HD version comes as 6.1 on UHF frequency channel 25.

WNDY's true-HD programming was about half of the UPN network shows, and about 1 movie every other week or so. Those will all be upconverted instead of true-HD for a month or two. All the other shows are upconverted anyway.

Tom

WNDY's true-HD programming was about half of the UPN network shows, and about 1 movie every other week or so. Those will all be upconverted instead of true-HD for a month or two. All the other shows are upconverted anyway.

Tom

Thanks a bunch for the clarification, Tom.

Nat

Wow, that is more information than I could have every hoped for. Thanks guys! I am going to print out this and start to work.

Question: My current antenna has vhf and UHF. I do not understand why I do not receive channel 18.1 or channel 11? I only see a snowy 18, not 18.1 or 11. As close as I am to 18 it seems I would get something. I have the channel master 3220 which is a huge antenna on my roof.

Well, pointed the antenna and now I have 19 channels. Getting 6.1, 8.1 just like Sergis. I may need a better booster and maybe a rotor - but things have definetly improved.

Does anyone know if Directv allows HD feeds for the LA and NY channels for those that live in Lafayette? This should would be easier.

Question: My current antenna has vhf and UHF. I do not understand why I do not receive channel 18.1 or channel 11? I only see a snowy 18, not 18.1 or 11. As close as I am to 18 it seems I would get something. I have the channel master 3220 which is a huge antenna on my roof.

You should be getting lots of signal from WLFI-DT 11 (18.1 & 18.2). I recently was able to receive this station in Kokomo with a small antenna inside the house. Don't forget that WLFI's tower is located just south of Rossville, so you might need to change the azimuth of your antenna. Also, I'm not sure what digital receiver you are using, but you might want to try a new channel search. Some receivers are quite sensitive and prefer to "find" stations through the search mode.

After reading the very detailed report from Sergeis in West Lafayette, you are quite a distance from all other DTV stations in the area. WICD-DT 41 (15.1), Champaign (NBC) is virtually the same distance as most of the Indy stations (approx. 55 miles). At that distance you'll need a good antenna, preferably outside, and probably with a good preamp, like the Channel Master 7777 (VHF/UHF) or the 7775 (UHF only). Also, location can be a big factor. Terrain, buildings, lots of trees, etc. certainly can influence your reception.



Sergeis, IMHO, the XG91 (UHF only) antenna from Antennas Direct would be a good choice for your area. I've been experimenting with one and I personally think it's a good one. It is quite directional so a rotor is almost a necessity if you plan to pick up other stations in your area.

As I mentioned above, WICD-DT appears to be exactly the same distance from your location as WTHR-DT. WTHR-DT is licensed with 1000kW @870 ft. and WICD-DT is licensed with 950kW @ 1230 ft. From personal experience and from chatting with TV engineers, it certainly appears that in many cases the height of the broadcast antenna is as much or more important than the output power in receiving DTV, especially at great distances.

As for receiving Chicago stations in your location, you'll most likely need some assistance from Mother Nature in the form of tropospheric enhancement. At approx. 106 miles, it is not impossible to receive some of the Chicago DTVs but I'm not sure how often you'll be able to receive them. With lots of power and most of the stations transmitting from the Sears and Hancock towers (approx. 1400 to almost 1700 ft. !!) almost anything is possible, especially this time of the year.

Good luck and keep us posted on your developments. Thanks.

Steve

We had a disk drive failure in our HD time delay server in the past few days. We got the replacement drive in and it's all back up and running. Should have time-delayed true-HD again tonight. Thank you, IST (Indiana Stupid Time)!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Should have time-delayed true-HD again tonight. Thank you, IST (Indiana Stupid Time)!Ending soon enough ... but if Indiana goes Central Time will WISH and other stations delay TV year round?

JL

Ending soon enough ... but if Indiana goes Central Time will WISH and other stations delay TV year round?

JL
I would think they wouldn't delay at all, and just sync up with everyone else in the Eastern and Central time zones. Good ol' 9pm/8pm Central and the like.

Question: My current antenna has vhf and UHF. I do not understand why I do not receive channel 18.1 or channel 11? I only see a snowy 18, not 18.1 or 11. As close as I am to 18 it seems I would get something. I have the channel master 3220 which is a huge antenna on my roof.
Maybe you just need more gain on channel 11. If there was only someone near you that had a VHF-hi yagi...:
http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/NewTowerAntennas/

I know there is a lot of OTA stuff that goes on here, but just as an FYI: Insight in Bloomington has just received their shipment of Motorola 6412s. Currently you can replace your older motorola dvr for a new one for free. The pricing is 13 a month for the first 12 months (I think it'll be 16 a month after that, well worth it).

Just to recap:

Dual HD Tuners
'Season Passes'
Buffer Record
30 Second Skip (search this form for the code to put in).
120gig hard drive.
HDMI
Firewire 800 (thought I read that, don't quote me though, might be 400)

Who the heck was TiVo?? :p

Enjoy! I'm getting mine tomorrow.

We had a disk drive failure in our HD time delay server in the past few days. We got the replacement drive in and it's all back up and running. Should have time-delayed true-HD again tonight. Thank you, IST (Indiana Stupid Time)!

Tom Weber
WISH EngineeringNo... Thanks to the stupid programming directors in Indy who think we want tape delayed shows in the summer!

We had a disk drive failure in our HD time delay server in the past few days. We got the replacement drive in and it's all back up and running. Should have time-delayed true-HD again tonight. Thank you, IST (Indiana Stupid Time)!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

Did it fail again last night (Thursday)? CSI was not in HD via Bright House.

Steve

The equipment worked fine, but due to a note that someone had posted, the operator didn't know it was working again. Note removed. Sigh.

Tom

Hopefully they don't fix IST by going to Central Time. The idea of it getting dark by 3 PM all winter long is to depressing to contemplate even if Tom has everything working...

Hopefully they don't fix IST by going to Central Time. The idea of it getting dark by 3 PM all winter long is to depressing to contemplate even if Tom has everything working...

It won't be all winter long and it won't be 3. Just like it won't stay light until 10 all summer. I'm sure I'll enjoy my neighbors cutting grass at 9:30 and trying to keep my daughter in bed while it is extremely light out. The old system was the best of both worlds but if I get the chance, I'll vote CST.

It won't be all winter long and it won't be 3. Just like it won't stay light until 10 all summer. I'm sure I'll enjoy my neighbors cutting grass at 9:30 and trying to keep my daughter in bed while it is extremely light out. The old system was the best of both worlds but if I get the chance, I'll vote CST.It will be 5pm - an hour earlier than it is under Eastern Standard Time (the way it has been for the past 35 years). Under CST sunset will be at or before 5pm 90 days a year and darkness (the end of civil twilight) will be at or before 5pm 60 days a year.

Not having DST was the best of both worlds, but now the time has come to decide which world to give up I'd rather keep the hour of sun before sunset in the winter than gain an hour of darkness in the summer. Then again from 1979 to 1995 I lived in Michigan on EST so I can accept returning to that kind of summer. (I also lived in Texas for a while, but being further south and west the sunset times were not as early as they are in Indiana.)

I'm going to push for Eastern Time - and expect that the US DOT will choose ET unless a compelling argument to change counties to Central Time is presented. It is 'status quo' as far as the US government is concerned.

The question stands of what broadcasters will do ... I don't believe any broadcaster will delay prime time year round. So the change to CT would be a sea change of media in Indiana.

BTW: Under Central Time your neighbors can mow at 5am in the morning in the summer. :D

JL

Tom, I have noticed for a while now, a good number of CBS's HD programs (CSI, CSI-Miami, etc.) only have the "background" audio on 5.1. At least to begin with. There have been times when after a commercial break or such, the full audio will come back.

I saw where there was a problem earlier with your HD disk recorder. Is this a spin-off of that?

Thanks,
Ken

Time zones, how big a deal is it anyway?

I lived here my first 18 years and the last three. I lived on both coasts and in the Far East for 40 years. We learned to add and/or subtract hours from GMT in our head to gain a sense of local conditions (light or dark). We dealt with the International Date Line as well.

For 15 of those 40 years I was a consultant who got on a plane on Monday and returned home on Friday. For 25 of those years I was in intelligence with global targets and the only time was Zulu (GMT). Finally, I was part of a team that built, deployed, and operated low earth orbiting satellites that circled the globe every 90 minutes. In the real-time space business the only time is now (GMT). The only time I ever got agitated about time zones was trying to figure out what time it was in Southern Indiana because that answer depended on what season of the year it was. Would you believe that?

With my experience and our continuing global awareness we all (not me I'll be dead) may get to the point of Earth time. After all the cows don't care what time it is when they get milked and fed as long as it happens when they expect/need it. You would think we humans could adapt better.

The world and Indiana have a lot more important issues to deal with that what time zone we want to be in. Get Real!

What is more important than being able to see Conan O'Brien's monologue before I have to go to bed?

CENTRAL BABY!!!!!

Interesting idea, (universal time), but wont work. People are lazy, and most won't be nearly as well travelled as yourself, all they care about and relate to is local time. If you tell a person its noon in London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo, etc. then you instinctively "know" what time it is (lunchtime :p ). Same for midnight or "It's Three O'Clock in the %$^&@ing morning!!!" It's a reference one can easily relate to. :D

I personally loved the way it was, we really did get the best of both time zones, light wise. Being on the edge of EST there's light till abt 8:00, 8:30, 9:00 ( depending on clouds, as I look out my window :D ) it would be light well after 9:00 EDT. I personally have fond memories of hot summer nights, we'll lose a little of that. We also got the same amount of light in winter as we're getting now, generally pretty good IMHO. If we switch to CST/CDT, we would have the same summer hours but it will get dark around 5:00, pretty gloomy.When DST first came on the scene, Indiana simply lost the filler early (wheel of fortune,etc.) and placed it later, thats when 10:00 O'Clock News first started here. As a kid, I could stay up as late ( well little later as it was summer vacation) and watch the 10:00 to 11:00 prime time shows from 9:00 to 10:00. My cousins in Ohio were jealous back then. That 6:00 to 7:00 time slot generated more revenue so the local stations started time shifting to increase revenues, they are a business after all. I'm curious why local network stations can't simply change sources, ie NY (EST) feeds during winter and CST( chicago) feeds during summer? Seems a simpler solution to me, a satalite dish can be repositioned, a T1 can be redirected. Why not time shift the source instead of the output?


BTW, completely OT, but anyone from Indy who hasn't visited their local library recently, should. IMCPL has recently instituded a policy of 3 day, no renewal, no request. The result has been in my local ( College St branch) going from an available collection of abt 20-30 DVDs to abt 900 titles including many you wont/cant find in your local/chain rental store.

I messed up and the stereo/5.1 switching is on "Manual" right now. I need to double-check it tomorrow during Y&R for compatibility.


Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

In broad terms, networks don't provide a Chicago feed. Midwest stations simply take the NY feed as it comes in, but it's an hour earlier for them.

Years ago (before small-format tape), we did switch things around, have News at 6 and 10 in the summer, 6 and 11 in the winter. First of all, that's backwards - if you're going to stay out later in the summer weather, THAT's when you'd want the later news!

Secondly, it really played hell with programming contracts - they run yearly, not 6-monthly. (And very rarely, 25/27 weeks instead of 26 and 26!) We pay lotsa bucks for a program, then can't air it in the most logical time slot half the year? Very general managers!

OTOH, Ft. Wayne does the tape-delay, which puts their 11 PM news on at Midnight in Ohio and Michigan - not what I call serving your viewers.

Tom Weber
Wsomething Engineering - these answers are personal, and NOT official!

I guess that's the nice part of Central Time - people who get depressed because they have to work until 5pm and drive home in the dark will want to go to bed earlier and get the day over with. So 10pm news a few hours after they get home and 11:35pm Conan (if the local station doesn't insert syndicated programming there) would be about right for how tired they are.

Then when the sun comes beating through the window at 6:30-7am (morning already? ugg Conan just finished 5 hours ago!) they can wait an hour or two to go to work and watch the sun set again before they can go home. And thus the cycle repeats. :)

I am glad that the schedule will be consistant year round without any required bumping. Thanks Tom for your insight. (And now, we return you to a thread on HDTV.)

JL

<<< (And now, we return you to a thread on HDTV.) >>>

That would be nice.

:) Insight in Bloomington has the new Motorola 6412 instock. I had them install two Tuesday. Duel tuner 120g hard drive. After two day no bugs to report.

Brad

After two day no bugs to report.

Just you wait... :)

These things are nowhere near as solid as TiVO. Even with their bugs, however, you can't beat a dual-tuner HD DVR.

Here's a tip: if you have many season passes, make sure the shows that repeat a lot (such as the ones on HBO, TNT, etc.) are at the BOTTOM of the priority list, below any shows that only air their new episodes once. The DVR is not smart enough to know that if a show that repeats multiple times has a higher priority than a show that only airs once, and if there happens to be a conflict at the only time the single-air show is playing, that it should bump the multiple-air show instead of the single-air show. I lost a few episodes of LOST before I figured that one out... :)

What version of firmware is installed in your boxes down in Bloomington? Comcast Indy (or at least my box) is still 9.12, although there are lots of discussions on the Internet about newer versions of software that fix bugs.

Jeff

I am interested in hearing more about Insight users experiences as the roll-out of Moto 6412 continues. I have std Insight service with ReplayTV and DVArchive on my PC. I'm considering the upgrade to HD and am very curious how well Insight employs the 6412.

I found out from Rick Poling that the new transmission line and new antenna are already installed on the WXIN tower. The new transmitter should be shipped by tomorrow (Friday). Once the transmitter arrives, Rick hopes to have it installed within a few days. The experimental test of WTTK-DT 54 from the WXIN, Indy tower, as explained by Rick in an earlier post, should be ready to go on-air within a couple of weeks. This should provide a number of Indy viewers a strong OTA signal of WTTV-DT (WB) programming, including HD programs from WB.

Steve

I called Insight about upgrading to the dual-tuner 6412. They offered to let me swap my old box and do the installation myself, which of course I jumped on to save the frustration of a 8-12 or 1-5 service call. Now I'm wondering if there is anything I need to know about setup. I know a couple of people have mentioned that Insight has installed the new boxes... anything I need to know to set it up myself?

Thanks,
Bill

FYI.....After more than 30 years of messing around with TV antennas and reception, I've never been impressed with indoor antennas. Well, that was until recently when I watched a local AVS Forum member southeast of Southport demonstrating his reception with the Zenith Silver Sensor along with the Motorola Signal Booster attached. I already had the booster, which is still available through Ebay, so out of curiosity I ordered the Silver Sensor (www.amazon.com) and it arrived today.

I'm located just north of Indy and just south of Carmel. I live 3 miles from the WTHR tower, 5-6 miles from the WXIN, WRTV, WISH, and WFYI towers, 17 miles from the WNDY tower, and 37 miles from the WTTV and WIPX towers. During a thunderstorm this afternoon, I found a sweet spot for this antenna on the floor in my living room where I could receive all of these stations. WTTV-DT 48 was dropping out from time to time, but I was amazed that I could receive this very weak station at a distance of 37 miles with a tiny little indoor antenna sitting on the floor of my living room. I was also getting some signal from WTTK-DT 54 (29 miles) and WTIU-DT 14, Bloomington (59 miles), but neither were strong enough or stable enough to lock.

Steve

I am wondering if anyone could tell me why WISH-HDTV and some other stations always stretch the original 4:3 contents to full 16:9 screen. Is it station's equipment problem? In my area (Lafayette) only 59-1 and 20-1 HDTV look normal, channels 6-1, 8-1, 13-1, 18-1, 23-1 broadcast deformed picture most of the time...

The firmware is 12.18.

Brad

I wonder if the Terre Haute, IN CBS station (WTHI) is now at full power. Our local CBS affiliate (WCIA) won't convert to HD until 2007 but I ought to be able to get a reliable signal from Terre Haute unless they are still low power. I though I'd post the question here before going up into a very hot attic to fool with antennae.

Thanks for any help.

I wonder if the Terre Haute, IN CBS station (WTHI) is now at full power. Our local CBS affiliate (WCIA) won't convert to HD until 2007 but I ought to be able to get a reliable signal from Terre Haute unless they are still low power. I though I'd post the question here before going up into a very hot attic to fool with antennae.

Thanks for any help.

At your distance from Terre Haute, I'm sorry to report that WTHI-DT 24 is currently operating at low power (STA) with 4.3kW @ approx. 427 feet. Also, according to information at its very detailed website ( http://www.wthitv.com/dtvfaq.asp), the plan is to go full power around July of 2006. But, IMO, this date is subject to change with the upcoming sale of WTHI-TV, along with the sale of all Emmis-owned TV stations ( http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050714/BUSINESS/507140419/1003 ). The new owner of the station MIGHT decide to do it earlier.

Steve

At your distance from Terre Haute, I'm sorry to report that WTHI-DT 24 is currently operating at low power (STA) with 4.3kW @ approx. 427 feet. Also, according to information at its very detailed website ( http://www.wthitv.com/dtvfaq.asp), the plan is to go full power around July of 2006. But, IMO, this date is subject to change with the upcoming sale of WTHI-TV, along with the sale of all Emmis-owned TV stations ( http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050714/BUSINESS/507140419/1003 ). The new owner of the station MIGHT decide to do it earlier.

Steve

Thanks for the information, Steve. I looked at WTHI's website before posting my question but missed the FAQ cited in your post. I hope Nexstar doesn't buy any of these stations or their viewers will never see HD.

Nexstar would have a hard time buying WTHI. The FCC has rules on how much of a market share one company can have. Nexstar already owns WTWO and is a partial owner (or something) of WFXW.

Check this.. did it go un-noticed?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050719/NEWS02/507190464

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep. :D

(I didn't mention it because it isn't directly related to TV or HDTV. The earlier discussion was related as I wondered aloud about the practice of time delaying programs ending and the effect of moving programs in Indianapolis, Fort Wayne and Terre Haute to "Central Time" if it was accepted. But since it came up:

This can be considered a victory for Eastern Time. While county executives might pipe up in a federally called hearing to decide what time zone their county might end up in, it is a harder issue to actually pick the Central Time side and make a fact based request to the US DOT. There is talk though of "repealing DST" in the next session of the Indiana legislature. Actually unrepealing the repeal of the section that said Indiana doesn't observe DST. :rolleyes:

BTW: From the article's sidebar: "It's Eastern: Clocks in Marion and surrounding counties likely will stay in the Eastern time zone year-round." That's what they have been doing for over 35 years. Indiana hasn't been changing time zones, it has been refusing to honor Daylight Savings Time.)

Anything good on TV?

JL

I hope Nexstar doesn't buy any of these stations or their viewers will never see HD.
If those stations are anything like the FOX station in Fort Wayne (Nexstar-owned, the bastages), their viewers won't get to see an upconvert either, although it technically could be received... if you had a receiver right outside the studio.

You know the DST thing was only passed because most of use were told that we'd get a hearing on the matter. The fact of the matter is, if you go by where the sun is, the line for the Central Time Zone would go just to the west of Columbus Ohio.

That bill would have never passed if people knew hearings would not take place. Heads need to roll.

I recently picked up a new BenQ 720p front projector and I'm ready to pick up HDTV programming. I'm in Fishers currently using DirecTV for Standard TV and Insight for broadband cable internet.

DirecTV wants to charge me $799 for a HDTivo, OTA Antenna and eliptical dish installed plus $120/month for all the channels they offer, the HD package, $10 for two extra standard receivers and $5 for the Tivo service. As you probably already know, this comes with zero local channels in HD over the satellite, only over the antenna.

Insight, on the other hand, is offering me their full line-up of channels, HD DVR rental, all of HBO & Showtime (including free OnDemand), the HD pack and $10 off my broadband internet access for $85/month with NO install fees or equipment to purchase. They do not require you to enter a contract. If I'm not happy, I can cancel the day of installation. The customer service lady said that their HD DVR box doesn't accept OTA antennas to pick up the two local channels they don't carry in HD which are WB and UPN. Whether she was right or misinformed, I have no idea.

$799 up front + $120/month versus $0 up front + $85/month. Seems like a no brainer to me. Am I missing something here? Is the picture quality from Insight terrible or what? Unless there's a hidden catch I'm not understanding, I'll be dropping DirecTV for Insight in the next day or so.

I've dug through this thread for more info on Insight's picture quality but it seems to mostly get derailed for pages and pages regarding the time zone issue. Signal quality changes often as well so it leaves me asking the same question that has been asked time and again.

If anyone with Insight has any input, it'd be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I recently picked up a new BenQ 720p front projector and I'm ready to pick up HDTV programming. I'm in Fishers currently using DirecTV for Standard TV and Insight for broadband cable internet.

DirecTV wants to charge me $799 for a HDTivo, OTA Antenna and eliptical dish installed plus $120/month for all the channels they offer, the HD package, $10 for two extra standard receivers and $5 for the Tivo service. As you probably already know, this comes with zero local channels in HD over the satellite, only over the antenna.

Insight, on the other hand, is offering me their full line-up of channels, HD DVR rental, all of HBO & Showtime (including free OnDemand), the HD pack and $10 off my broadband internet access for $85/month with NO install fees or equipment to purchase. They do not require you to enter a contract. If I'm not happy, I can cancel the day of installation. The customer service lady said that their HD DVR box doesn't accept OTA antennas to pick up the two local channels they don't carry in HD which are WB and UPN. Whether she was right or misinformed, I have no idea.

$799 up front + $120/month versus $0 up front + $85/month. Seems like a no brainer to me. Am I missing something here? Is the picture quality from Insight terrible or what? Unless there's a hidden catch I'm not understanding, I'll be dropping DirecTV for Insight in the next day or so.

I've dug through this thread for more info on Insight's picture quality but it seems to mostly get derailed for pages and pages regarding the time zone issue. Signal quality changes often as well so it leaves me asking the same question that has been asked time and again.

If anyone with Insight has any input, it'd be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I think that cable is the way to go right now if you want an HD DVR. In addition to the obvious pricing differences and the discounts available for high speed internet packages, keep this in mind:

1. DirecTV will probably stop selling TiVO units at some point in the future, as they have been developing their own DVR technology. Support will be provided for existing TiVO users for quite awhile no doubt, but you may be limited in the channels you receive because...

2. Satellite companies will slowly be shifting to MPEG-4-based compression technology so they can squeeze more and more channels into their available spectrum. This kind of compression is not supported in any of the current generation of satellite set-top boxes (including the expensive HD TiVO), which means all new hardware will be needed to receive channels encoded in MPEG-4. It's kind of hard to imagine that this will be very popular, and it may never happen given the huge installed base of both TiVO and non-TiVO receivers that currently use MPEG-2, but it might happen someday.

3. The HD provided by cable companies is generally considered to be higher quality and higher resolution than what is provided by DirecTV, as they do not compress the signal as much. Some call what DirecTV provides "HD-Lite" as they sometimes reduce the resolution of the image to conserve precious bandwidth. Picky viewers claim to be able to notice the difference. Others claim that the degradation isn't noticeable. The importance of this probably depends on how good your eyes are, and how good your HD monitor is.

4. In most markets, digital cable still means that only the channels above 99 are truly digital -- the rest are analog and subject to picture quality issues depending on the infrastructure in your neighborhood. The HD channels will always be in the digital range, but the picture quality of standard cable fare in the analog range may less than perfect. From everything I've read, however, most cable companies will offer a 100% digital lineup within a year or so (search Google for " Cable and "digital simulcast" " for lots of interesting reading about the directions the cable companies are moving.

5. Remember to calculate your cable bill after the promotional discounts and trial periods have expired.

Hope this helps,

Jeff

Hi Chris;
I don't subscribe to Insight HDTV's service, but get a few unencrypted HDTV QAM signals for free (6,8,13,20,30 here in Bloomington, IN) with my LST-4200A receiver.
The quality is fine. I hear a lot about cable and satellites compressing their signals far more than over the air broadcasts, but I'm not sure my old tired eyes can really make out much of a difference.
I have compared OTA on the above channels with the free Insight QAM, and they look a LOT alike to me.
Nat

Anyone else watching CSI Miami tonight?

Seems like all they are sending out is back channel or sound effects. Dialog volume is WAY down.

Of course, the commercials are perfect!

Does anyone know if they use an off-air HDTV receiver in the control room?

Apparently not.

Verified on two independent sets.

Anyone have the phone number for the control room? :(

I noticed the same problem at about 10:45PM, but then all of a sudden it sounded just fine.
Maybe somebody saw your post!
Nat Hill IV

Thanks for the input fellas. Insight is scheduled to install their HD DVR with full programming package this Thursday morning. I'll scope it out and report back here in case anyone else is interested.

By the way, when I called D* to make sure I wasn't under any committment, they didn't even try to keep me as a customer when I explained the price difference between them and cable. All they said was that they'll be dropping the price of their HDTiVO & OTA Antenna package by a couple hundred dollars starting Aug. 1st. That'd still be $599 up front and $120/mo. No thanks.

Its in :) Ordered everything they (Insight) offer except skinemax and starz. HDNet and Universal HD look amazing on my PE7700 720p projector at 110". HBO and Showtime HD look great as well. Haven't been able to see local channels in full hi-def yet over the cable because low-def programming is on. The news on ABC looked pretty damn good. NBC (WTHR-HD)'s noon news is off for some reason though. I have to switch my projector over to 4:3 for the proper aspect ratio for ABC, but WTHR looks out of proportion no matter what aspect ratio I set the projector to...its either too skinny or too tall (tried 4:3, letterbox, anamorphic, wide, real settings). Fox (WXIN-HD) looked sharp but showed a thin line of noise at the very top of the screen (very distracting). If primetime has the same issues, I'll probably have Insight come take a look.

I'm hoping that Lord of the Rings plays on one of the HD channels so I can record it to the Motorola HD DVR they set me up with. DVD's look like crap this big, even using a HTPC or an upconverting stand-alone dvd player. HBO-HD and Showtime-HD look much better so that'll be the preferred method of watching movies until HD-DVD / Blu-ray come out.

Anyways, just posting in case anyone else is in the same boat (Insight vs. DirecTV for HD). If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask here or PM me.

Chris;
Thanks so much for detailed report on your Insight experience.
I'm toying with the idea of getting the HDTV/DVR myself.
How does ESPN-HD look? That's where I would spend most of my time....
Nat

Yesterday I visited the new tower site for the upcoming WIPB-DT. It's located approximately 4 miles south of Muncie, and 1 mile west of St. Rd. 3. As of early yesterday afternoon, around 220 feet of the 800 foot tower had been erected (pics attached). When completed in the next few weeks, the total height, including the antenna on top of the tower, will be 850 feet. The station should hit the air sometime in September.

A WIPB employee was at the site taping some of the tower work with a HD camera. The station plans to air a documentary on the project in the near future.

Steve

Chris;
Thanks so much for detailed report on your Insight experience.
I'm toying with the idea of getting the HDTV/DVR myself.
How does ESPN-HD look? That's where I would spend most of my time....
Nat

Nat,

ESPN-HD looks great when the image is actually HD. I checked in on it off and on yesterday and most of the time its a widescreen hi-def channel but they play standard-def feeds in a 4:3 square in the middle with ESPN's "HD" logos as bars on the left and right side of the screen. Once SportsCenter and a couple other shows kicked in with full HD later on in the night, WOW. Isanity. Love it. How often they play standard video over the HD channel will determine how useful the channel is though. We shall see.

By the way, that 70's show on Fox was digital in 4:3 for some reason (they don't record in HD?) but the next show (can't remember which it was) was full widescreen hi-def and it looked excellent. NBC (WTHR)'s primetime shows from 8pm-1am including Jay Leno were full blown widescreen HD as well. The newscast was still distorted though. Not sure what the deal is there. I'm still getting the a jittery line at the top of the screen on local HD channels that are playing 4:3 content.

I'm now looking forward to more channels being picked up in HD (TNT-HD in particular for basketball season). After seeing the full HD (HDNet and Discovery HD seem to look the best), I find myself flipping back and forth through the 5 or 10 HD channels and refusing to watch anything standard def.

Overall, very happy with the picture quality on hi-def. Standard def signals just aren't going to look very good blown up this size no matter how good a picture Insight sends out.

Chris;
Again, thanks for your reports.
I simply love getting unbiased information from actual users.
I get all of the Indy locals with an OTA antenna, which doesn't reveal any of the artifacts you describe.
But ESPN as you describe it sure does sound tempting.
The bad news is that you're making it harder and harder to NOT go with the Insight HDTV tuner box.
Nat

I need some advice on OTA signal reception (and this is probably a question you guys have seen several times, so please bear with me :) )

I live in Fishers right off 116th in the southernmost part of Hamilton county. I'm looking into getting a HD DVR from DirecTV and consequently I'll need to get the local HD stations OTA. First and foremost, I'd switch from DirecTV to cable to make things easier, but then I'd lose Sunday Ticket, and I'd have no way of seeing my preciouis Dolphins games this year. So I've gotta keep DirecTV. I understand that they're working on getting HD locals to the top 12 markets by the end of the year, and more next year, but with Indy being something like 25th, I'm not holding my breath.

My problem is that I'm in an apartment right now, and I don't have the ability to go outside and plant a huge antenna in the ground or on the side of the building (they do allow my DirecTV dish, though). I live on the first floor of a two story building, and since I can't put an antenna anywhere but the first floor, I'm wondering if it would even be possible to receive local HD signals with an indoor antenna (maybe the Zenith job people seem to like so much). The antenna would be next to a large window facing west, if that would make any difference.

I would experiment with this, but since it's DirecTV we're talking about, I have to shell out $400 for the HD DVR (they have a rebate going right now, hence my interest) and upgrade my monthly service, and I'd rather not have to undo that process in the event I can't get a local HD signal. DirecTV is a big enough pain as it is customer service-wise.

I'm really only concerned with ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and UPN. I see that UPN's tower isn't too far from me, but I have no idea where the other towers are, so any information or advice would be appreciated.

If the chance is great enough that I can't receive those stations, I'll probably just forget about it either until I move or until DirecTV can provide me with locals. I'd already be taking a big enough chance in getting hardware that could be outdated in a year with the whole MPEG4 thing coming up.

I'm really only concerned with ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and UPN.I live close by and have a HD TiVo myself. I started with a small indoor antenna, which worked OK. Since it was in the lower level (below ground) and our neighborhood is more or less in a dip I would at times lose one channel while trying to keep the antenna aimed towards all of them.

You do want to basically point your antenna towards the West and based on you being at ground level I think you will be able to pull in most of the stations outside of WTTV. I ended up putting an antenna in the attic above the garage so I can't say if things have gotten better or worse over the last couple of years... I get them all now without any issues (outside of WTTV).

I need some advice on OTA signal reception (and this is probably a question you guys have seen several times, so please bear with me :) )

I live in Fishers right off 116th in the southernmost part of Hamilton county. I'm looking into getting a HD DVR from DirecTV and consequently I'll need to get the local HD stations OTA. First and foremost, I'd switch from DirecTV to cable to make things easier, but then I'd lose Sunday Ticket, and I'd have no way of seeing my preciouis Dolphins games this year. So I've gotta keep DirecTV. I understand that they're working on getting HD locals to the top 12 markets by the end of the year, and more next year, but with Indy being something like 25th, I'm not holding my breath.

My problem is that I'm in an apartment right now, and I don't have the ability to go outside and plant a huge antenna in the ground or on the side of the building (they do allow my DirecTV dish, though). I live on the first floor of a two story building, and since I can't put an antenna anywhere but the first floor, I'm wondering if it would even be possible to receive local HD signals with an indoor antenna (maybe the Zenith job people seem to like so much). The antenna would be next to a large window facing west, if that would make any difference.

I would experiment with this, but since it's DirecTV we're talking about, I have to shell out $400 for the HD DVR (they have a rebate going right now, hence my interest) and upgrade my monthly service, and I'd rather not have to undo that process in the event I can't get a local HD signal. DirecTV is a big enough pain as it is customer service-wise.

I'm really only concerned with ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and UPN. I see that UPN's tower isn't too far from me, but I have no idea where the other towers are, so any information or advice would be appreciated.

If the chance is great enough that I can't receive those stations, I'll probably just forget about it either until I move or until DirecTV can provide me with locals. I'd already be taking a big enough chance in getting hardware that could be outdated in a year with the whole MPEG4 thing coming up.


I agree with Charles. You should be able to get most of these stations. Short of buying the HD-Tivo first, though, you may see what these channels look like on an analog tuner (TV, VCR, etc.) with the Silver Sensor (buy it somewhere you can return it!). If you get the analog versions of channels you want with a minimal amount of snow or ghosting, chances are that you will get their DT versions as well. Otherwise, check with DirecTV and the store you plan on buying the Tivo from, and see if you can return it if you don't get the performance you want. Unfortunately, nobody can really tell you definitely if you will or won't get the channels you want.

I was able to get all the local channels (ABC, CBS, PBS, NBC, FOX, UPN and WB (WTTK from Kokomo)) with a Radio Shack indoor antenna, but it took some moving around and I had to move it when I wanted to change channels sometimes. With an antenna in my attic now I can get them all easily at 141st and Cumberland.

Good Luck!
bakem

Thanks for the help guys. I didn't realize that I'd be able to test the signal strength using the analog signals. From what I've read, Radio Shack sells the Silver Sensor and it's around $50, so depending on their return policy, I'll try that out. I also didn't realize that from my area, all the towers are roughly the same distance and direction away (according to antennaweb) so if I don't care about getting UPN and WB in HD (which, sadly for them, I don't), I wouldn't need to move the antenna too much.

Also, I noticed that CBS is broadcasting on channel 9, but the Silver Sensor product information says it's only a UHF antenna. Will I need another antenna for CBS or will this antenna probably do a good enough job? I realize there's no way to know for sure.

edit: I just noticed Radio Shack also has some sort of satellite-attachment antenna that clips over the top of your dish. I could use something like that since it wouldn't be taking up any more space outdoors. Any idea if those things work? I can't post a link, but it's model 15-2183 on the Radio Shack website.

I live over in Avon and am using the HD Tivo from D*. I am able to use a small indoor antenna from Radioshack. I have it on top of the tv on the ground floor. I am able to point it in one position and get CBS, ABC, NBC, WFYI, Fox, UPN. The antenna is cheap and small, you might try it out and see what you get. Remember, everything varies on where you are and your setup.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D624

I live off 106th and you should be able to get....hold on a sec....DOLPHINS?!?!

No help for you.

Kidding, I'd help but I went with Insight for HD.

Did anyone watch the Brickyard 400 (sorry, Allstate 400 at the Brickyard) yesterday?

The signal from Insight was jerky. I don't know how else to describe it... it was most noticeable when a camera was zooming or panning. It was like the picture jumped ahead a few frames. Most noticeable in the ticker scrolling across the top displaying driver positions. When I flipped over to the analog channel I didn't notice any problems.

The Cubs and Mets looked great last night, so I don't think it's an equipment issue.

Just wondering if OTA experienced the same thing, or if it was an Insight problem.

Thanks,
Bill

I suspect that, altho it's horribly inefficient, you'll be able to pick up enought channel 9 signal with your Silver Sensor to get WISH-DT in OK, given where I think you said you live.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Did anyone watch the Brickyard 400 (sorry, Allstate 400 at the Brickyard) yesterday?

The signal from Insight was jerky. I don't know how else to describe it... it was most noticeable when a camera was zooming or panning. It was like the picture jumped ahead a few frames. Most noticeable in the ticker scrolling across the top displaying driver positions. When I flipped over to the analog channel I didn't notice any problems.

The Cubs and Mets looked great last night, so I don't think it's an equipment issue.

Just wondering if OTA experienced the same thing, or if it was an Insight problem.

Thanks,
Bill
I watched the race over-the-air, instead of through Insight. Go Tony!
The reception was great and exhibited none of the problems you have described.
I don't know if it's because I can really see a difference or because I've been convinced by things I read, but I always watch over-the-air instead of QAM cable if it's something important to me.

I'm going to stop going to the Brickyard. I have seats in the Penhouse Paddock up at the top in row 1. There's no one in front of me... but what happens? The people still stand up and lean our over the railing the whole time! All I see is the back of teh guy to the immediate left of me. Why do people do that when they are in the front row? They lean out so far, all I could see is the 10 feet of track directly in front of me. People have no respect for others.

Been awhile since visiting. Frustration time again in the Terre Haute area. WTHI (10) was the ownly local to broadcast in hi-def but apparently that is gone and very frustrating. However, the good news is for some reason I have been able to pick up Fox 59 DT and WRTV 6 DT consistently only using a silver sensor. If you live around Indy it's no big deal but I'm 12 miles north/west of Terre Haute. Keeping my fingers crossed it's not because of weather conditions.

Hi everybody. I just wanted to say I love this forum and find lots of great advice on here. My name is Rob and I live in West Lafayette, IN. I am new to the HD world and currently just have Directv dish with one of those amplified Turk antennas on top. The directv installer was really surprised that I was able to pick up most of the Indy stations pretty clear, 8, 13, 59, etc. My question is, does anybody know what HD channels I should expect to receive from here with my current setup? I have a clear view with no trees around, and it's mounted on top of the directv dish on a one-story house. Any info would be great as I am planning on purchasing a new LCD with a HD receiver later this month. I am guessing I will get WLFI 18 HD (Lafayette), but what about Indy, Terre Houte, or even Chicago channels from here? Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

Been awhile since visiting. Frustration time again in the Terre Haute area. WTHI (10) was the ownly local to broadcast in hi-def but apparently that is gone and very frustrating.So is WTHI ceasing HD altogether? Is this correct? Why would they have the capability and then take it away? Anyone?

This morning I noticed that WTTK-DT 54 is now transmitting from the WXIN tower in Indy. I've been out of state for a few days so at the moment I'm not sure when it began. If you have experienced problems receiving WTTV-DT or WTTK-DT OTA in the past, give it another try with this new signal from a new transmitter site on channel 54 (29-1 remapped). For background information on what's going on, please refer to this post from June.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5779753#post5779753

Thanks.

Steve

Talked to some great guys at WTHI who are going to check into the problem. They had some equipment problems about a month ago, but thought all was solved. Apparently were not aware there still were glitches and nothing has been mandated to stop showing HD.

On a side note to what STeve was talking about. I've been able to pick up WB4 (excited because of the Pacer games) pretty consistent at night. Hopefully this will continue, but not holding my breath because I've also had luck in getting WAVE 3 out of KY and WKRC out of Ohio. Once again this is using a 32 inch Phillips tv with integrated tuner and a Zenith SS setting on the back of the set. I am 4 miles from the Illinois/Indiana border.

Still no go at 131 and Springmill on WTTK. I started trying at 1 PM. Won't auto program or come up when I directly select CH 4, 29 or 54.

Anyone else receiving or not?

Dave

This morning I noticed that WTTK-DT 54 is now transmitting from the WXIN tower in Indy. I've been out of state for a few days so at the moment I'm not sure when it began. If you have experienced problems receiving WTTV-DT or WTTK-DT OTA in the past, give it another try with this new signal from a new transmitter site on channel 54 (29-1 remapped). For background information on what's going on, please refer to this post from June.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5779753#post5779753

Thanks.

Steve


Well, I actually LOST WTTK with this. I had my antenna pointed in the general direction of Kokomo, and was able to get WTTK along with all the others save for WTTV. Guess some re-aiming is in order.

bakem (141st and Cumberland)

Hi everybody. I just wanted to say I love this forum and find lots of great advice on here. My name is Rob and I live in West Lafayette, IN. I am new to the HD world and currently just have Directv dish with one of those amplified Turk antennas on top. The directv installer was really surprised that I was able to pick up most of the Indy stations pretty clear, 8, 13, 59, etc. My question is, does anybody know what HD channels I should expect to receive from here with my current setup? I have a clear view with no trees around, and it's mounted on top of the directv dish on a one-story house. Any info would be great as I am planning on purchasing a new LCD with a HD receiver later this month. I am guessing I will get WLFI 18 HD (Lafayette), but what about Indy, Terre Houte, or even Chicago channels from here? Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

Welcome to AVS Forum, Rob. About 6 weeks ago there was a post from another member in West Lafayette and another member in the Lafayette area about DTV reception. Here are a couple of links to get you to some of the info (posts) that might help you. Also, you might want to email these members and see how they are doing with reception. Good luck with the new monitor and equipment.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5828515#post5828515

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5832114#post5832114

Steve

We just moved to the Terre Haute area and I'm more than a little frustrated with the lack of HD here. Does anyone know of a good installer here to put in a large-directional antenna to receive Indy stations?

Kevin

Does anybody have any knowledge about the Pico Macom - UHF-VHF-FM SLOPED DISTRIBUTION AMPLIFIER?

I am trying to boost my signal as I have a few Indy stations that only come in when the sky is clear (mainly 59.1). Any ideas on what might work well?

Right now I am using the Motorola Signal Booster from Circuit City (15db gain), but it only seems to boost one channel noticeably (6.1 and 6.2) from 10% signal strength to around 77%! Why does this have so much affect on one channel but very minimal on the rest? Thanks in advance...

Kevin, I am afraid you will be able to pick up analog channels from Indy, but as far as the digital channels go, you'd need an antenna that would be so tall the FAA would make you take it down. You're pretty much stuck with WTHI. It stinks.

Kevin, my brother-in-law lives in Clinton and has a mast mounted to the top of his home. He lives on top of a large hill wich helps and depending on the tuner he uses he noticed the other day he was getting some of the stations in Indy. If he used the tuner on his Dishnetwork receiver he didn't see a thing, if he used the tuner built in to his TV he was getting a signal from 3 Indy stations.

I am not sure what the signal strength was or if it was a steady signal because he did not have time to play with it much. I think getting Indy stations is possible but only if you are EXTREEMLY lucky. I was stunned he was able to even see a weak signal.

I'm thinking of the line "Never say never," and the song by Albert Hammond, "It Never Rains In Southern California." The author of the article probably should "never" have used that word relating to reception. When it comes to TV reception almost anything can or can't happen when you least expect it. I'm not supposed to receive WTWC-DT 2, Tallahassee, FL but I DID receive it for a few seconds last July during some intense Es (E-skip) conditions.

One thing that helps you, Doug, is the antenna height of most of your stations in central Illinois. Using the same line-of-sight formula for WRSP-DT with an antenna height of 1360 feet, that would give the signal a distance of 52 miles before theoretically hitting the ground. Along with the fairly flat terrain in your area, I'm sure that the signal from this station would carry beyond that distance.

Disclaimer: Your reception mileage may vary.

Steve
Current Record: I got a call last year from a guy who lives about 60 miles west of Kansas City. He said that he got a good locked in WRTV-DT for a few minutes at sunrise. (Sent a screen capture of Grace.)

I am wondering if anyone could tell me why WISH-HDTV and some other stations always stretch the original 4:3 contents to full 16:9 screen. Is it station's equipment problem? In my area (Lafayette) only 59-1 and 20-1 HDTV look normal, channels 6-1, 8-1, 13-1, 18-1, 23-1 broadcast deformed picture most of the time...
It is a management level decision, not a technical consideration.

p:

Still no go at 131 and Springmill on WTTK. I started trying at 1 PM. Won't auto program or come up when I directly select CH 4, 29 or 54.

Anyone else receiving or not?

Dave

Update 8/15.....Engineers are still synchronizing the equipment and tweaking the two transmitters for the new WTTK-DT 54 (29-1) setup. I found out today that the new WTTK-DT transmitter in Indy has been operating the past few days with only a little over 100 watts and that the Windfall transmitter has been operating at its regular 3.3kW. Rick will notify when everything is finalized, hopefully today or tomorrow. Will post and advise at that time.

Steve

Does anybody have any knowledge about the Pico Macom - UHF-VHF-FM SLOPED DISTRIBUTION AMPLIFIER?

I am trying to boost my signal as I have a few Indy stations that only come in when the sky is clear (mainly 59.1). Any ideas on what might work well?

Right now I am using the Motorola Signal Booster from Circuit City (15db gain), but it only seems to boost one channel noticeably (6.1 and 6.2) from 10% signal strength to around 77%! Why does this have so much affect on one channel but very minimal on the rest? Thanks in advance...

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with the Pico Macom Amplifier. Hopefully someone else here is. Preamps from Winegard and Channel Master are more commonly used in this area. In case you haven't seen it yet, there's a great list of preamplifiers/boosters at this post.....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=546066&page=1

As for the Motorola Signal Booster, I own 2 of them. At my location it seems to work virtually as well as most preamps I've tested or used and WITHOUT overloading in high RF areas like mine, near the Indy antenna farm. Just keep in mind that a booster or preamp can increase the signal level of a weak signal, but it cannot increase a signal that isn't present. If WRTV-DT (6.1 and 6.2) is showing a signal of only 10% without the booster, maybe the signals from the other stations are TOO weak for the booster to amplify. When the signal gets TOO weak, the process of amplifying or boosting the signal usually just introduces "garbage" (noise, interference) into the line, which then makes it more difficult for the DTV receiver to decode the signal. It sounds like you might need an antenna with higher gain.

Steve

Update 8/15.....Engineers are still synchronizing the equipment and tweaking the two transmitters for the new WTTK-DT 54 (29-1) setup. I found out today that the new WTTK-DT transmitter in Indy has been operating the past few days with only a little over 100 watts and that the Windfall transmitter has been operating at its regular 3.3kW. Rick will notify when everything is finalized, hopefully today or tomorrow. Will post and advise at that time.

Steve


Thanks for the update Steve, I have been watching to see if I get reception. I'm sure I will when they up the power a little, I am practically under the tower using an attic antenna.

Dave

Did anyone notice a stronger signal in 20-1, 20-2 and 20-3 (PBS) last night? I have never before picked up even 1% from them here in Lafayette. Last night though I was pulling in a signal around 77%!! Is this solely based on the weather? Or did they upgrade the power or something? Thanks.....

At 4:30 this afternoon, Rick Poling sent out the following email to those DTV viewers on his list:


Update:

The new WTTK-DT transmitter at Indianapolis is on the air. It started at
low power on 8/11 and went to full power yesterday about noon. Also, the
WTTK-DT transmitter at Windfall has been reduced in power as outlined for
this experiment. We are very interested in your reception reports, good or
bad - send them to this address. Also, if you could include your street
address, or if you don't want to give that at least provide the nearest
intersection so that we can add your location to our data that we are
compiling for this experiment. Also, if you are now having a reception
problem, it is possible that we may also pay you a visit sometime soon to
evaluate the problem as part of this experiment.

Please note the following:

VERY IMPORTANT: As this is an experiment, either one or both transmitters
may be turned off from time to time, so your reception may suddenly go away.
We will try to do this only in the daytime, but there may be exceptions.
Also, since this is an experiment, it may be determined at any time that
this is not a good idea or causing problems and may be DISCONTINUED at any
time. While I don't think this is likely, it is a possibility. Eventually,
we do endeavor to cover the entire coverage area of WTTV and WTTK; this
experiment will help us determine exactly how to do that.

Receivers: PLEASE LET ME KNOW if you do manage to find the signal, but your
picture and sound is intermittent. We have noted this effect on two
professional receivers and I have suspected problems with two consumer
receivers. Most consumer receivers we have tested so far work fine,
however. If you think you might have this problem, be sure to email me and
include the exact brand and model of receiver you have, and I may be able to
tell you if that receiver is known to work or known to exhibit the problem.
We are reasonably certain that this problem is being caused by the modulator
software in the transmitter and hope to have it corrected soon. The
transmitter manufacturer now has a receiver that has the problem to take
back to the lab for evaluation.

If you were previously able to receive WTTK-DT from Windfall and you have
now lost the signal, you may be able to get the Indianapolis WTTK-DT
transmitter by turning your antenna the same way you turn it for WXIN-DT and
most of the other Indianapolis DTV stations. If not, please reply with your
address as we may want to visit you (or at least your driveway) with our
measurement gear.

That is all for now. I am looking forward to your replies.

Rick

............................................................ ...............

BTW, Rick may be reached at rpoling@tribune.com . Thanks in advance for any useful information you might be able to relay to Rick for this very interesting DTV test.

Steve

Well, still no go at 131st and Springmill. I find that very odd. I receive 6, 8, 13, 20, 23 and 59. When I rescan I am getting a significant hesitation at Ch 54, I believe that should be WTTK. If I direct select CH 54, signal strength doesn't even register.

LG-3510A.

Dave

Try 29-1 for WTTK-DT

Current Record: I got a call last year from a guy who lives about 60 miles west of Kansas City. He said that he got a good locked in WRTV-DT for a few minutes at sunrise. (Sent a screen capture of Grace.)

Hi Paul,

A month ago or so I got you with an 85% signal lock on my Zenith DVR420
using a lousy 26" TV.

Oh yeah, I'm just a wee bit far from you...DeKalb, IL, 61 miles due west of
Sears Tower. Almost 200 air miles from your tranny, and a big hill to our
south/southeast normally blocking tropo from that reception. There's a
DT on 25 from Milwaukee, and I normally see that on tropo nights. But when the
PSIP locked and I saw the Indy news reruns on your subchannel, I was
amazed. Those Longley-Rice maps got thrown out the window on several nights,
as that was my third time I locked you.

You're tied for my longest digital tropo shot; I have only had my antenna
a year and late in July I locked the Green Bay, WI PBS affiliate, also about
200 miles away. Longest tropo analog shot was last fall; I got the PBS that is on the OH/PA border. Longest E-Skip: Channel 2 from Bangor, ME; can't remember the calls.
Oh yeah, I use a ChannelMaster 4228 antenna, CM 7777 preamp, all in an attic
above my first floor down in a river valley!
P.S. Very well done picture on the main channel and on the subs.

I actually tried 4-1, 29-1 and 54-1 manually, signal doesn't register on any of the channels.

Dave

Got 29-1 here in Fishers. Just southwest of 116th & Cumberland. Top of a hill, inside antenna on first floor.

We've just fixed a problem that has existed for some indeterminate period of time.

We got an instrument restored to service that had been bad for several months, and discovered that we had been putting out a signal that's nowhere near as clean as we need to. Don't know when it started, tho, as we had good reception at everyone's house that we know, and here at the studio.

So, those of you with marginal reception on WISH-DT may have better reception now.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

August 13th I took delivery of a Hitachi 51S715 in Bloomington, not encouraged about my prospects of OTA. So I got Insight with the HD packs.

The question I have is . . . does anyone know what aspect ratios Insight uses? My Hitachi has:

4:3 Standard
4:3 Expanded
4:3 Zoom 1
4:3 Zoom 2
16:9 Standard
16:9 Zoom

I can't seem to figure out what the native aspect ratio of my TV is . . . none of the above aspect ratios seem to be a perfect fit for the screen, and it varies from the HD pack channels to the standard channels. 16:9 on the HD channels has bars at the top and bottom (and I'm scared stiff of burn-in even though I've dropped brightness and contrast down). Then sometimes if I'm watching HD in 16:9 zoom then I want to bring up the guide, I have to change the aspect to see the guide properly. The Auto Aspect ratio . . . I'm not always satisfied with how it picks the aspect for the programming.

Any help or information is appreciated. If there is any additional information I can provide, let me know. THanks much in advance.

If you are watching an HD channel, your aspect ration is 16x9 standard. Black bars on top and bottom mean it is letterboxed movie (in all likelihood) shown at the original aspect ratio- OAR. Bars on the side of the picture means that the program is not HD, and you are fortunate that the station did not manipulate your picture just to fill the screen.

If you are watching a non-HD channel, your aspect ration is 4x3 standard. Usually, you can choose the color of the side bars via your TV menu. Using any of the Zoom or Expanded manipulates the picture in some manner to fill the screen- and usually looks horrible-so really don't have any use, IMHO.

The question I have is . . . does anyone know what aspect ratios Insight uses?

I think you'll find that Insight simply delivers what it receives from the sources, and that can vary considerably.

There have been conversations from time to time about the "image stretching" that is done by the broadcast stations that feel that they have to fill the complete 16:9 screen with what is intended to be a 4:3 image. The only time you will see a true 16:9 image is on a program that is recorded and broadcast in HD. That may be a generalization, but it's basically the case.

On my Mitsubishi receiver, I set it so the non-HD channels will appear in the standard 4:3 aspect ratio. Granted, there are bars on either side of the image, but at least it's not a stretched image. Also, as a general rule, I don't watch the digital versions of locals (WTHR, WISH, etc.) unless they are broadcasting an actual HD program.

Enjoy!

Ken

I haven't seen a single program yet on my HD pack channels that fills the screen properly at the 16:9 setting. Always the black bars on the top and bottom and I have to select the 16:9 Zoom. I hope it isn't a TV issue.

Depends on the source. No properly formated 2.35:1 movie will fill a 16:9 screen without black bars at the top and bottom. I just leave it alone though if you zoom it what is cut off at the sides usually isn't much.

I haven't seen a single program yet on my HD pack channels that fills the screen properly at the 16:9 setting. Always the black bars on the top and bottom and I have to select the 16:9 Zoom. I hope it isn't a TV issue.

Sounds like it is just a setting on your set. A good deal of the prime time programming of CBS and NBC is in HD. This evening (Sunday) check out "Cold Case" on CBS at 8:00 p.m. Unless there is an equipment problem at WISH, it will be in HD. A good way to tell if a program is really in HD is on a network commercial break, the commercials will be in 4:3 with bars on the side. Local commercials are still in "stretch-o-vision".

Also, if you get ESPN HD, from what I have seen, they always send a 16:9 image. If their programming isn't in 16:9, they use a graphic in the bars on the side.

Ken

I'm on the west side near IRP. I still get ZERO signal from WTTV 4-1 or WTTK 29-1. I get all the other channels, including WNDY 23-1.

If WTTK is now broadcasting out of Indy, why wouldn't I be able to receive it? Are there any other changes in the works so we can get the WB here on the west side?

Possibly depends on your antenna. I'm using an indoor model stuck up in the attic and getting around 45 on the signal meter. This on the far west side. Apparently the signal from WTTK isn't anywhere as strong at WXIN from what Rick Poling indicated. At least for now.

ysaric, loose the Insight box. When I was in A/V sales in Bloomington (HH Gregg)I had multiple customers who had the Insight box and they (Insight) has done something to the signal and it appeared to be in a zoom mode going thru the box. The Hitachi you purchased has cable card capablility but it is not 2 way. I have a Panasonic Plasma that has cable card and the screen aspect ratio is perfect with their HD Pack. This tells me that it is something to do with their Motorola HD Cable box that you have from them.

Consider the Cable Card and I think this will clear up your problems.

I'm on the west side near IRP. I still get ZERO signal from WTTV 4-1 or WTTK 29-1. I get all the other channels, including WNDY 23-1.


I'm 2miles west of IRP and cant get but maybe a 10 on the signal meter for WTTK, and that is only if I really tweak my antenna positioning. Even though I don't watch much on WB it would be nice to have it.

I'm 2miles west of IRP and cant get but maybe a 10 on the signal meter for WTTK, and that is only if I really tweak my antenna positioning. Even though I don't watch much on WB it would be nice to have it.I'm actualyl just east of IRP. One night it was raining like crazy, and I actually got 4-1 to come in. When the rain stopped, it went back to zero.

Where is the Indy tower for WTTV/WTTK? I was always under the impression that WNDY is out of Marion. If that is correct, how is it possible that I can get a signal all the way from Marion, yet I can't get a signal from Bloomington?

I can get channel 4 just fine on the analog, so it's not a major problem with Pacer games, but maybe JUST maybe my testosterone level will drop one night and I'd want to watch Everwood or One Tree Hill in high def.

Ok, people, riddle me this . . .

DVD player, RCA progressive scan, set at 480p, 16:9.
Desperado: 1.85--plays full screen
Akira: 1.78--plays full screen
Farscape: Peacekeeper Wars: Listed as "16:9 Widescreen Version"--plays full screen.

Right now I am watching CSI: Miami in HD on Insight cable, Bloomington Indiana, channel 760. 2" bar at the top, 2.25" bar at the bottom. Aspect on the TV listed at 16:9 standard. This should also be full screen, right?

I' m going to crosspost this to the official Hitachi 51S715 forum thread, see if it might be an issue with the tv, but any help form here would be greatly appreciated. If there is any additional information I can provide to make an accurate diagnosis, please let me know. Thanks in advance for any information or advice provided.

RSlamD: Thanks for the information. I had heard that Cable Cards do not have all the functionality of the cable box--no on-demand movies. Do you know whether that is true or not? I will call them tomorrow to see about trying out a cable card.

Ok, people, riddle me this . . .

DVD player, RCA progressive scan, set at 480p, 16:9.
Desperado: 1.85--plays full screen
Akira: 1.78--plays full screen
Farscape: Peacekeeper Wars: Listed as "16:9 Widescreen Version"--plays full screen.

Right now I am watching CSI: Miami in HD on Insight cable, Bloomington Indiana, channel 760. 2" bar at the top, 2.25" bar at the bottom. Aspect on the TV listed at 16:9 standard. This should also be full screen, right?

.

I didn't watch but that would be very odd for CSI: Miami (HD) to be in anything but 16:9 (Full Screen).

Does your cable box have a setup menu where you need to tell it you have a 16:9 TV (widescreen) vs a 4:3 TV? I have to do that with my DVD and Sat rcvr.

-AKH

Where is the Indy tower for WTTV/WTTK? I was always under the impression that WNDY is out of Marion. If that is correct, how is it possible that I can get a signal all the way from Marion, yet I can't get a signal from Bloomington?WTTK now has a transmitter at 79th & Township Line Road although I believe it is much lower power than what they are using for WXIN. Although I would still think you are close enough.

Right now I am watching CSI: Miami in HD on Insight cable, Bloomington Indiana, channel 760. 2" bar at the top, 2.25" bar at the bottom. Aspect on the TV listed at 16:9 standard. This should also be full screen, right? Sounds like your box is outputting 4:3 but your TV is set for 16:9. If that's the case, that is the result you would get. You need to change the box to output 16:9. If you can't find it in a menu, I would call Insight.

Yes, I went digging through wahtever menus I could find in the cable box, and found something that would adjust picture position on the screen, but nothing that would expand the picture vertically. I'll be disappointed if I have to switch to a cable card and they take the box away, because it's very convenient to record the Doodlebops for my daughter.

I agree with Charles. You should be able to get most of these stations. Short of buying the HD-Tivo first, though, you may see what these channels look like on an analog tuner (TV, VCR, etc.) with the Silver Sensor (buy it somewhere you can return it!). If you get the analog versions of channels you want with a minimal amount of snow or ghosting, chances are that you will get their DT versions as well. Otherwise, check with DirecTV and the store you plan on buying the Tivo from, and see if you can return it if you don't get the performance you want. Unfortunately, nobody can really tell you definitely if you will or won't get the channels you want.

I was able to get all the local channels (ABC, CBS, PBS, NBC, FOX, UPN and WB (WTTK from Kokomo)) with a Radio Shack indoor antenna, but it took some moving around and I had to move it when I wanted to change channels sometimes. With an antenna in my attic now I can get them all easily at 141st and Cumberland.

Good Luck!
bakem

I bought a Terk amplified indoor antenna from Circuit City (couldn't find a Silver Sensor) and to my surprise, I picked up all the analog locals pretty well. The worst was ABC with some snow, but turning the amplifier on helped that to a degree. Is it true that locking on to a digital signal is easier that getting a really good analog signal? If so, I should be OK. Some of the customer reviews for my antenna said that their HD reception was usually better than SD reception, so I'm optimistic that ABC won't be a problem.

DirecTV is selling the HD DVR's for $299 - $100 rebate over the phone now, so I had to jump on that offer. My installer will be here tomorrow :)

Ok a bit off topic but ...

For those of you that like house shake'n bass. NHRA boy's were out practicing at IRP tonight. I live 2.4 miles away and you can FEEL them roaring down the track. Anyone have any idea if the nationals are going to be in HD this year? I bet the night runs would be spectaular in HD.

Thank you all who provided assistance to this n00b.

The answer is that when the cable guy came to hook my stuff up, I only had 1 set of component cables, and 1 S-video cable. He put the component cables from the DVD player to the TV, and the S-video from the cable box to the TV. Something about using the S-video cable means that the HD signal isn't being sent properly, so when I switched the component cables from the DVD player to the cable box, poof! HD 16:9 properly takes up the whole screen, and (until I get off work today) I am stuck without progressive scan output on my DVD player, which also requires component cables.

This also plays to the advice I had gotten earlier about the Cable Card--using a Cable Card I assume would make moot the choice of cables and properly display the HD signal, but I'm happy I get to keep my box. My daughter, without ever having knowledge of this issue, will continue to enjoy DVR-taped episodes of The Doodlebops.

On the more unusual side, now that I am using component cables for the cable box, I seem to be limited to 4:3 expanded, 16:9 standard and 16:9 zoom. The other aspect options are unavailable unless I switch to the straight coaxial feed on Antenna B. No biggie.

<<< He put the component cables from the DVD player to the TV, and the S-video from the cable box to the TV. Something about using the S-video cable means that the HD signal isn't being sent properly.... >>>

How in the world does a guy who receives a salary from Insight set you up that way????? A DVD player is 480i or, if you're lucky, 480p. S-video does a good job of handling 480i, but nothing beyond that.
HD can go clear to 1080i, and S-video simply isn't set up to handle that. S-video is an old technology and was not designed to handle HDTV signals.
You need to buy a second set of component cables to come from your DVD as well to get the full benefit of your TV's abilities.

Anyway, glad you're in business. Is HDTV beautiful or what?

Certainly no credit goes to Insight on this deal.

Nat

My sister's DirecTV installer did the same thing. Came out with a Samsung TS360 HD Receiver, and hooked it up to her HDTV with S Video.

I wonder why when I called her the day she got it hooked up, she said "It's nice... but I expected HD to be nicer."

I have been monitoring the thread that is devoted to HD Hardware and in particular the thread that is called the HD-DVR for $299.00 from D*. I have not noticed any messages from anyone from this area and was wondering if people were aware of this mark-down and their thoughts on it. Some of these guys are getting deals from D* that make the actual cost of this HR10-250 almost "free". It is kind of off topic, but in a way its relevent to local programming and the ability to record HD content. Below is a sample of what has been posted on the other thread. Any comments or thoughts on this will be apprecieated. Below is a sample and I do not know who got this, but there are 15 pages of different deals with various prices and credits and such. Might be worth a look for anyone interested.

$299 HD Tivo
- $100 Mail in rebate
- $199 Instant credit
- $ 36 off on HD package
Free installation (coming Sat am)
--------
Net: -$36!!!

Tom "aka coolray" Smalley
Alive and well in Selma, Indiana

I saw that same thread and got in on the deal last week. I called customer retention and explained nicely that I wanted to upgrade to HD DVR, and I wondered what type of deals they had. I didn't have any trouble at all getting what I wanted, which was just the DVR for $299 minus the $100 rebate, plus Sunday Ticker Superfan for $49. I called on Saturday and they installed my unit yesterday, and even moved my SD Tivo to the bedroom.

From reading that thread (I think I may have read the whole thing :eek: ) the people who got the programming credits had two things in common: they subscribed to a package with a high monthly bill, and they did a lot of dirty work. Some of those people had basically every DirecTV option: Sunday Ticket, Total Choice Premier, Extra Innings, Tivo, and ALL the movie channels. They got programming credits because DirecTV didn't want to lose their astronomical monthly payments. Those people also did a lot of scheming; I saw several that called three or four times just to squeeze as much free stuff out of the company as they could. Some of them were picky and got busted (one guy called so many times trying to get $250 in credits that they noted his account as being eligible for nothing) and others just took what they were able to get out of one call. There was also a post later in the thread stating that the CSRs had a meeting and were instructed not to give any credits away with the DVR deal, so it may be limited now.

I thought about pushing for more myself, but I only have Tivo and Sunday ticket, so our bill wasn't that high. Getting credits for stuff like Showtime wouldn't have done me any good, since I still would have had to pay for it at half price, which was more than I currently pay for it (nothing).

All in all it was easy and a good experience... until the installer came into play. He was two hours out of his time window (I waited from 8am to 2pm before he showed) and my HDMI connection was bad out of the box, which I'll be calling about today. As far as dealing with DirecTV itself, though, it worked out very well.

I have been monitoring the thread that is devoted to HD Hardware and in particular the thread that is called the HD-DVR for $299.00 from D*. I have not noticed any messages from anyone from this area and was wondering if people were aware of this mark-down and their thoughts on it. Some of these guys are getting deals from D* that make the actual cost of this HR10-250 almost "free". It is kind of off topic, but in a way its relevent to local programming and the ability to record HD content. Below is a sample of what has been posted on the other thread. Any comments or thoughts on this will be apprecieated. Below is a sample and I do not know who got this, but there are 15 pages of different deals with various prices and credits and such. Might be worth a look for anyone interested.

$299 HD Tivo
- $100 Mail in rebate
- $199 Instant credit
- $ 36 off on HD package
Free installation (coming Sat am)
--------
Net: -$36!!!

Tom "aka coolray" Smalley
Alive and well in Selma, Indiana


Like Alan, I got in on the deal as well. I only called once, and didn't ask for any credits, but got the $299 -$100 MIR. In my eyes, that's a steal as it is, and I was happy with that. Nothing like a TIVO for all the HD shows and sports my wife and I'll be watching this fall.

Alan, are you able to receive all the channels you were wanting?

bakem

Bakem- Looks like I can get everything except for WB and whatever the heck is on 40 (or maybe it's 42, doesn't matter anyway). NBC and ABC are in the high 90's, which kinds surprised me. I had to move the antenna a little at first for Fox, but I think I have it set now... I recorded 2 hours of "So You Think You Can Dance" last night without a hitch (amazing what I'll watch in HD that I normally wouldn't otherwise :D ). I'm really happy that I don't have to move the antenna to get each station.

Have you noticed anything wrong with Discovery HD? I posted a thread about it on another board... it flickers all the time. Other people seem to have noticed it too, but no one knows why it happens. As it is, I can't even watch the channel without getting a headache.

As Indianapolis-based Emmis sells its 16 TV stations, a press release this week announced that LIN TV Corp., the owner of area stations WISH-Indianapolis, WNDY-Marion/Indy, WLFI-Lafayette and WANE-Fort Wayne, will purchase WTHI-TV/DT. IMO, LIN TV's track record in DTV/HDTV has been great, so I definitely see this as very good news for viewers in the Terre Haute area. The transaction must first be approved by the FCC but most likely the deal should be finalized by the end of the year.

Maybe Tom Weber at WISH will be able to share some more insight regarding this deal in the near future.

BTW, I've heard from several employees that the company name LIN, based in Providence, RI, stands for Louisville-Indianapolis-Nashville.

Steve

I'm afraid that there is precious little that I can comment on, as this is a propsed, but not approved, deal, and this is a pretty public forum.

I'll spare you the standard platitudes <g>.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Good afternoon all, this is my first post in this forum (I have been on other parts of the board for some time). I just set up my apointment with Comcast to get the HD-DVR added (since I got a new MITS 65) so I am just wondering if someone could break down the HD listing from Comcast in Indy, that part of their site is down and the person on the phone was of little help.

Thanks
Sam

As of Wednesday, Rick Poling at WTTK-DT reports that he installed new software in the WTTK-DT transmitter at the WXIN, Indy site. Some digital receivers were not or could not decode the signal correctly. Rick says that most of the decoding problems related to the DISH 811 HD receivers and a couple of Mitsubishi 55" and 65" sets with built-in tuners. I, too, had a problem with my new Humax HFA100, while my other STBs were decoding the station just fine. However, since the update, the Humax is decoding WTTK-DT 54 just fine. So if you weren't able to get any audio or video from this station prior to Wednesday, try another scan and see if you're able to receive it now.

Steve

Good afternoon all, this is my first post in this forum (I have been on other parts of the board for some time). I just set up my apointment with Comcast to get the HD-DVR added (since I got a new MITS 65) so I am just wondering if someone could break down the HD listing from Comcast in Indy, that part of their site is down and the person on the phone was of little help.

Thanks
Sam


*BUMP for the evening crowd*

After I got my 4228 and 9/10 setup with the amplifier (its been so long since ive done anything with my anteanna setup, i forget what all I have!)..I set it and forgot it, I got fox in HD and thats pretty much all I wanted. now that football season is about to start I would like to start to find other channels that I can pull...Im in Muncie, IN and get all my HD from indianapolis, about 45 miles and fox is usually at 100%.
My question is whats the best way to scan to see what all channels I can get that are above 80% or so (if thats the number to use..) and also how to tell what channel it is you picked up.
THEN, I would like to write down all the angles for what channels in what cities
FINALLY - is there a program that you can enter in all the channels you can get to see what is on where. Im a packer fan (raisied as a cheesehead) so would like to be able to get as many Packer games as possible..
Thanks for the help
Ross

I don't have all your answers, but have you tried antennaweb.org

As Indianapolis-based Emmis sells its 16 TV stations, a press release this week announced that LIN TV Corp., the owner of area stations WISH-Indianapolis, WNDY-Marion/Indy, WLFI-Lafayette and WANE-Fort Wayne, will purchase WTHI-TV/DT.IIRC: LIN also owns WOTV-41 Battle Creek and WOOD-8 Grand Rapids. Good stations. This won't hurt WTHI.

JL

As Indianapolis-based Emmis sells its 16 TV stations, a press release this week announced that LIN TV Corp., the owner of area stations WISH-Indianapolis, WNDY-Marion/Indy, WLFI-Lafayette and WANE-Fort Wayne, will purchase WTHI-TV/DT. IMO, LIN TV's track record in DTV/HDTV has been great, so I definitely see this as very good news for viewers in the Terre Haute area. The transaction must first be approved by the FCC but most likely the deal should be finalized by the end of the year.

Maybe Tom Weber at WISH will be able to share some more insight regarding this deal in the near future.

BTW, I've heard from several employees that the company name LIN, based in Providence, RI, stands for Louisville-Indianapolis-Nashville.

SteveSince WTHI is currently a TV station, and FM and AM radio station, and they all operate out of the same building, what exactly is Emmis selling? Currently the TV personalities appear on the radio programs and vice versa from time to time. Will this cease? Will they be moving to separate buildings? Does anyone know?

My sister and her family recently moved to Noblesville, and judging by antennaweb.org, it looks like they should be in pretty good shape for OTA reception ( ~ 10 miles from the transmitter, most channels originating from the same direction ).

Is there any site, or posting here, which gives a summary of the local HD situation? Things like:

- What HD channels are available in the local cable? They have "Insight" as their cable provider.

- Does Insight offer HD DVR service?

- Are all locals broadcasting at decent power levels?

- Do all the locals pass through the network HD feeds?

- Any other important issues?


I'm trying to gather some info to make recommendations for their setup.. Thanks for any info.

tji,

All of the Indy network stations (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC, PBS,UPN & WB) pass along HD programming when it's available. The only temporary exception for a few more weeks is UPN affiliate WNDY-DT 32 (23-1) while the station installs some new equipment.

Most of these network stations are operating at or near full-power. The weakest signal in the Noblesville area will be from the WB affiliate, WTTV. WTTV-DT's translator station, WTTK-DT 54 (29.1 & 29.2) as of two weeks ago now provides the best signal in that area. That signal is transmitted from the WXIN (Fox) tower in Indy. Last week I conducted some spot signal checks using the Zenith Silver Sensor antenna with the LG LST-3100A (STB) in my car and I was able to receive the station quite easily at St. Rd. 37 @ 146th St. as well as at St. Rd. 37 @ 191st St.

Sorry but I am not familiar with Insight, as I do not live in their service area.

Steve

Anybody heard when WTHI will have their HD signal back up? Or are they going to bring it back up at all?

Thanks for the info, Steve. That sounds good.

I searched through the Insight www site a bit, and the HD channels they list are:

750 HBO HD
751 Showtime HD
760 WISH (CBS)
761 WTHR (NBC)
762 WRTV (ABC)
763 WXIN (FOX)
764 WFYI (PBS)
774 Universal HD

And, they have an "HD Pak" for $7.95 more per month, which has:

775 ESPN HD
776 Discovery HD Theater
777 HDNet
778 HDNet Movies

I'm a bit surprised that these channels are extra cost. ESPN usually requires providers to include them in the base package.

My sister and her family recently moved to Noblesville, and judging by antennaweb.org, it looks like they should be in pretty good shape for OTA reception ( ~ 10 miles from the transmitter, most channels originating from the same direction ).

Is there any site, or posting here, which gives a summary of the local HD situation? Things like:

- What HD channels are available in the local cable? They have "Insight" as their cable provider.

- Does Insight offer HD DVR service?

- Are all locals broadcasting at decent power levels?

- Do all the locals pass through the network HD feeds?

- Any other important issues?


I'm trying to gather some info to make recommendations for their setup.. Thanks for any info.

I made an overly long post a few pages back regarding my choice to go with Insight over D*. The Search Thread option should get ya there.

To quickly answer your questions, the list of HD channels is on their website and in the post above this one. Yes, they do use the Motorola 6412 HD DVR (I have one and it works fine) with HDMI-out. I chose not to go with D* because of their poor HD quality, need for an antenna (and the headaches that come with it), up front costs and long-term contract agreements (2 years). Insight offers all of the local stations in HD *except* for WB and UPN, although the CSR at Insight will tell you they may pick those up sooner than later. D* will not be offering local channels over the dish in HD until 2007 as the Indy area is, if I remember correctly, #22 on the list to be converted over to MPEG4 boxes to include local HD.

Insight also has no commitments and no installation fees. You can have it installed and cancel 5 minutes later if you aren't happy. The Moto 6412 isn't as pretty as a TiVo (I've used both), is a little less user friendly but still does its job well. Insight is also extremely customer-oriented when dealing with them. Always pleasant and always patient. The choice was clear for me. I can always switch back to D* when they get their act (and picture quality) together. In the meantime, I don't have to screw around with installing an antenna, tweaking the antenna or losing my picture due to clouds.

Most of these network stations are operating at or near full-power. The weakest signal in the Noblesville area will be from the WB affiliate, WTTV. WTTV-DT's translator station, WTTK-DT 54 (29.1 & 29.2) as of two weeks ago now provides the best signal in that area. That signal is transmitted from the WXIN (Fox) tower in Indy.

Then why can I get WXIN at 65% but 29.1 comes in with 0% signal strength here in Lafayette? If they are broadcast frm the same tour shouldn't I be receiving both?

What I want to know is if/when WTHI will pass their HD signal through Time Warner Cable. Any ideas?

Thanks for the information, Chris. It seems like Insight with the DVR is the best way for them to go at this point. In my area, there are a bunch of channels available OTA, but not via cable. Insight covers most of the available channels there, so also doing OTA is probably not worth the effort.

Insight also has no commitments and no installation fees. You can have it installed and cancel 5 minutes later if you aren't happy. The Moto 6412 isn't as pretty as a TiVo (I've used both), is a little less user friendly but still does its job well. Insight is also extremely customer-oriented when dealing with them. Always pleasant and always patient. The choice was clear for me. I can always switch back to D* when they get their act (and picture quality) together. In the meantime, I don't have to screw around with installing an antenna, tweaking the antenna or losing my picture due to clouds.

ESPNHD is in the D* HD Pack- you can't get any HD from D* without paying for the Pack.

D* will not be offering local channels over the dish in HD until 2007 as the Indy area is, if I remember correctly, #22 on the list to be converted over to MPEG4 boxes to include local HD.

Incorrect. Indy is DMA #25, and the Top 30 markets should be up on D* by the middle of next year. All DMAs will be up in 2007.

Then why can I get WXIN at 65% but 29.1 comes in with 0% signal strength here in Lafayette? If they are broadcast frm the same tour shouldn't I be receiving both?

Sorry, but unless you have a very good antenna setup you most likely live too far away for the current low power of WTTK-DT, as outlined by engineer Rick Poling in an earlier post. A friend of mine in Greensburg is able to receive it most of the time but he has a very sophisticated antenna setup on a tower. Both stations transmit from the same tower but WXIN-DT is cranking 700kW @ 935 feet while WTTK-DT is transmitting just 2kW @ 850 feet during this one-year experiment.

Steve

What I want to know is if/when WTHI will pass their HD signal through Time Warner Cable. Any ideas?

Good question that many others in various TV markets across the country would like an answer to. Most of these delays are related to dollars and cents which are still being negotiated between TV stations and cable companies. I'm still waiting on my cable company, Bright House, which serves parts of Indianapolis and Carmel, to add WRTV-DT (ABC), WXIN-DT (Fox), WNDY-DT (UPN) and WTTV-DT/WTTK-DT (WB). :rolleyes: The only way I can receive these stations in HD is via OTA.

Steve

ESPNHD is in the D* HD Pack- you can't get any HD from D* without paying for the Pack.

Not exactly correct. Yes, ESPNHD is part of the HD Pack, but you get SHOHD and HBOHD along with your subscriptions to those packages. No HD pack required.

From the D* website: " HBO® HD and SHOWTIME® HD are available at no additional cost to customers who already subscribe to HBO® and SHOWTIME UNLIMITED®. Add these premium services to your programming package today to start enjoying the mind-blowing experience of high-definition television with the proper DIRECTV® HD equipment.
"
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDTV_premium.dsp

bakem

Received bad news good news from the engineer at WTHI today (nice guy by the way). When the Terre Haute area had the big storm in June it did cause havoc with the HD signal. They have been waiting on parts to come in, but not sure when they will arrive. Promises they have not given up on showing CBS programming in HD and WILL BE broadcasting in HD again when they get the necessary parts.

Big thanks to WHTI for at least caring. Now if we could only get WTWO and FOX on board.

Received bad news good news from the engineer at WTHI today (nice guy by the way). When the Terre Haute area had the big storm in June it did cause havoc with the HD signal. They have been waiting on parts to come in, but not sure when they will arrive. Promises they have not given up on showing CBS programming in HD and WILL BE broadcasting in HD again when they get the necessary parts.

Big thanks to WHTI for at least caring. Now if we could only get WTWO and FOX on board.

True, I think its going to be a while before WTWO and FOX get on board. Still I dont understand why I have to have an OTA to pick up these HD signals from stations when it should be passed through Time Warner Cable. How much is the cheapest OTA anyway. I guess living in an apt. isnt the best option with an OTA antenna. :(

WTWO, and WBAK have signed contracts to have the HD transmitters up and running within 14 months. I would prefer quicker....but you know..... I have pulled in their "Digital" sights in the past but it has been spotty reception. I've sold them several HD television sets that they use in their broadcast studio and set so I know that they are at least prepping for the switch.

True, I think its going to be a while before WTWO and FOX get on board. Still I dont understand why I have to have an OTA to pick up these HD signals from stations when it should be passed through Time Warner Cable. How much is the cheapest OTA anyway. I guess living in an apt. isnt the best option with an OTA antenna. :(

Ark, if you live pretty close to the city limits you might be surprised on what you can receive. I live 12 miles north of TH and can pickup 10 (24-1), 2 (36-1) and 38 (39-1) using only a Zenith Silver Sensor.

Speaking of that I just learned the hard way to make sure and keep your head out of your backside. Was playing around with my Winegard Square Shooter (basically trying some different locations) and blew my preamp. Yeah I know I should have unhooked the power supply, but got stupid and lazy. So previously I could get WTIU all the PAX channels constantly, WXIN WFYI and WRTV at night. Now I can barely get the locals again. Bonehead move for sure and being greedy didn't help. With the recent fog (tropo heaven) I was getting stations out of Louisville KY, Dayton and Cincy Ohio, Springfield IL, and even WTTV and WNDY were coming in regular. There is no moral to the story other than me having a rant because of my stupid atttack.

I have a Turk amplified outside antenna (the one that fits on the DirecTV dish). I also added the Motorolla 15db gain signal amplifier. I am located in an open area in West Lafayette, IN (65 miles north of Indy). I can pick up 6.1 at around 77% and 59.1 at night (usually 54%-65%).

I am looking to get a better signal booster so I can bring in Fox all the time, plus 13.1 NBC. I usually get 13.1 at 0% during the day at about 20% at night.

Here is the hard part: My direct-TV and antenna are on the same line going into the house and they are split up by the receiver. I tried to put a pre-amplifier on the line up by the dish, but it screwed up the DirecTV signal. So, I am looking for a really really good amplifier which I can put inside after the signal is split.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.....

I am looking to get a better signal booster so I can bring in Fox all the time, plus 13.1 NBC. I usually get 13.1 at 0% during the day at about 20% at night.I think it might require a better antenna.

I think it might require a better antenna.

What about this guy? Do you think this might boost the signal enough to make it pretty solid....it has a 60db gain!!
http://www.itcelectronics.com/pdtl.asp?P=4980

I'm certainly not a guru regarding these matters. Just from past experience that antenna does not work nearly as well as your typical antenna. Of course you need some signal before boosting will do any good. Surely, it's worth a try especially if you can return it if it doesn't help.

I'm certainly not a guru regarding these matters. Just from past experience that antenna does not work nearly as well as your typical antenna. Of course you need some signal before boosting will do any good. Surely, it's worth a try especially if you can return it if it doesn't help.

That is what the installer told me too, but when he hooked it up I was pulling in channels from Fort Wayne, Indy, Lafayette, South Bend and others with it....I think I remember about 5 NBC's one night (all analog). Now, I can get 6.1 GREAT from Indy, so the antenna is doing it's job, I just need a little more, but don't want to have some huge structure on my roof :)

WTWO, and WBAK have signed contracts to have the HD transmitters up and running within 14 months. I would prefer quicker....but you know..... I have pulled in their "Digital" sights in the past but it has been spotty reception. I've sold them several HD television sets that they use in their broadcast studio and set so I know that they are at least prepping for the switch.I was getting my hair cut in Terre Haute, and Julie Henricks was getting her hair cut by the woman next to me. I know Julie a little bit, and she told me that the word she got was that Nexstar did not see a way to remain profitable in Terre Haute if they had to upgrade to HD. She was under the impression, at least at that time (which was a few months ago) that if the FCC forced WTWO to go HD, Nexstar would just shut down the station.

Maybe this has changed, but you have to wonder considering WTWO still broadcasts in mono audio.

I am trying to find out if WTTV4 BROADCASTS IN HD. Just got a new HD Plasma and can get all of the other local stations in HD but not 4. We live in Greenwood. Thanks

Hey all! Nice forum! I am the Assistant Chief Engineer at WTHI Terre Haute.

BTW, WTHI-DT is now back to HD status. We have had some trouble from a few storms, and now appears that we are back up and running. Hope you all can enjoy you CBS HD programs once again.

Cheers, Ken.


BTW, hey to Tom Weber...Hope all is well in Indy.

I am trying to find out if WTTV4 BROADCASTS IN HD. Just got a new HD Plasma and can get all of the other local stations in HD but not 4. We live in Greenwood. Thanks

Yes, WTTV-DT 48 and its translator station WTTK-DT 54 both pass along HD from WB. The WTTV-DT signal is transmitted from the WTTV tower in Trafalgar and as mentioned in various recent posts, the WTTK-DT signal in the Indy area is transmitted from the WXIN tower. In the Greenwood area, the signal from Trafalgar should be the stronger one.

FWIW, I just returned from the Johnson/Brown County area where I was able to receive the WTTK-DT 54 signal with a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna in my car in downtown Trafalgar, within sight of the WTTV tower, and I was able to receive it in a parking lot across the street from Franklin High School on U.S. 31.

Steve

OK, this is kinda bizarre...

A gentleman wearing a brown DirecTV outfit knocked on my door this evening around 5:30. He said he was there to take pictures of my "new dish install." When I told him that I had just had a new receiver installed and was using the same dish, he asked how it went. I told him about my bad HDMI output and how the installer basically left the situation up to me to call DirecTV about it, and he seemed very interested in this. He then proceeded to take a picture of my dish anyway, and then left.

So if DirecTV contracts out to local companies, and this guy didn't work for the local company that did my install, where the heck did he come from? Is it common practice for them to take pictures of dishes that have been installed for a year or what?

I am watching tennis, on wthi, terre haute in hd on my ed plasma and it looks great. thanks ken

Hey all! Nice forum! I am the Assistant Chief Engineer at WTHI Terre Haute.

BTW, WTHI-DT is now back to HD status. We have had some trouble from a few storms, and now appears that we are back up and running. Hope you all can enjoy you CBS HD programs once again.

Cheers, Ken.


BTW, hey to Tom Weber...Hope all is well in Indy.

Thanks Ken, looked great today. Nice to have one channel in TH that knows what HD is. Now if only WTWO would at least grant waivers...

I have been monitoring the thread that is devoted to HD Hardware and in particular the thread that is called the HD-DVR for $299.00 from D*. I have not noticed any messages from anyone from this area and was wondering if people were aware of this mark-down and their thoughts on it. Some of these guys are getting deals from D* that make the actual cost of this HR10-250 almost "free". It is kind of off topic, but in a way its relevent to local programming and the ability to record HD content. Below is a sample of what has been posted on the other thread. Any comments or thoughts on this will be apprecieated. Below is a sample and I do not know who got this, but there are 15 pages of different deals with various prices and credits and such. Might be worth a look for anyone interested.

$299 HD Tivo
- $100 Mail in rebate
- $199 Instant credit
- $ 36 off on HD package
Free installation (coming Sat am)
--------
Net: -$36!!!


$36 isn't bad, but th HD-TiVO will be a paperweight before long. All of DirecTV's new HD programming (including HD locals) will require an MPEG-4 decoder, and the TiVO doesn't have one.

Keep it in mind....

Jeff

I got the $199 hd tivo deal plus 6 months of hbo and 3 months of their hd channel free. I had to make a two year commitment at my current level. I feel that if they change to mpeg 4 in six months and my hd tivo won't work with it then they have made a 2 years commitment to me also. So I would expect a new dvr that will work with the new mpeg 4 system.

tim arnett
terre haute

I got the $199 hd tivo deal plus 6 months of hbo and 3 months of their hd channel free. I had to make a two year commitment at my current level. I feel that if they change to mpeg 4 in six months and my hd tivo won't work with it then they have made a 2 years commitment to me also. So I would expect a new dvr that will work with the new mpeg 4 system.

tim arnett
terre haute

Paperweight is probably not an accurate way to describe the HD TiVO.

I think the current belief is that the HD TiVO will work with their existing HD channel lineup for as long as they support the device (for years), as well as for over-the-air HD broadcasts received through an antenna.

Some speculation, or perhaps wishful thinking:

Hopefully, if they add a new HD channel that is not a local station (i.e. ESPN-2, TNT-HD, Cinemax HD, Starz HD, etc.), they will add it to the existing block of MPEG-2 channels which work with the HD TiVOs that customers have been paying a lot of money for over the last year or so. It would be good if they only use MPEG-4 encoding for HD locals. That way, there would be a clear distinction between the HD TiVO box and their new HD DVR. The HD TiVO is for those who want a real TiVO and who already have OTA reception. The new DVR will be for those who want to receive their HD locals through the satellite.

Jeff

I am watching tennis, on wthi, terre haute in hd on my ed plasma and it looks great. thanks ken


Your welcome!

If you have your antenna and D* coming into the house on the same line and running through a splitter behind the receiver, where would you install a distributed signal amplifier at on the line? Before the splitter, after it, etc.? Thanks....

Ken,

When will WTHI be able to pass that signal through Time Warner Cable? I guess I dont understand the hold up on why those HD signals aren't passed to cable providers.

Ken,

When will WTHI be able to pass that signal through Time Warner Cable? I guess I dont understand the hold up on why those HD signals aren't passed to cable providers.


It's all tied up with legal stuff. And I am not into the legal stuff. As it stands right now, WTHI-DT is not free for cable operators. This may, or may not change with the aquisition by LIN.
Hope this helps.

Ken.

Would like to add my 2 cents with a thank you to Ken. Also noted since WTHI has come back on line when showing the SD (local news, programming) on the HD channel it appears they're no longer using a stretch mode. They are now letter boxing and what an improvement it is for widescreen owners compared to the previous setup.

Ken,

When will WTHI be able to pass that signal through Time Warner Cable? I guess I dont understand the hold up on why those HD signals aren't passed to cable providers.

Ark, it's the same with Rapid Cable in the Clinton area. Your best bet at this point is get a splitter and rabbit ears. CSI, Letterman all look good but HD truely shines when watching sports in my opinion. With the Colts being pretty popular you should be seing a number of their games in HD this year I'd think.

Would like to add my 2 cents with a thank you to Ken. Also noted since WTHI has come back on line when showing the SD (local news, programming) on the HD channel it appears they're no longer using a stretch mode. They are now letter boxing and what an improvement it is for widescreen owners compared to the previous setup.

Regarding WISH and WRTV in Indianapolis and their predilection to stretch a 4:3 image to fill a widescreen --

I don't understand why this would be a "management decision" to stretch and distort the images. What could possibly convince station owners to not present their material the way it was intended?

Someone in managment probably doesn't like the black or gray bars on the sides that result when 4:3 material is fit on a 16:9 screen in the proper aspect ratio so made a "management decision" to stretch. :D

Someone in managment probably doesn't like the black or gray bars on the sides that result when 4:3 material is fit on a 16:9 screen in the proper aspect ratio so made a "management decision" to stretch. :D

Dumb dumb dumb........ :mad:

Does WTHRDT 13.1 broadcast a stronger signal at 9:00pm for it's primetime shows? It seems like every night I can pull it in at about 30% during the day and when 9:00 rolls around I get between 54-77%.

Do the networks increase their signal at night?

Well I called up Time Warner to pick up the HD Plus Tier that adds ESPN HD. So I will actually get to watch the Colts game this sunday in HD. I live in an apt. complex so I cant just add a big antenna outside to tune in WTHI's HD signal. What is the minimal amount I would need to pick up the WTHI signal in HD? Splitter and rabbit ears??

Im up in Muncie, IN and get WXIN-DT 59.1 FOX in HD at 100% My antenna is set to 0 right now I believe as I havent had the channel master plugged into it as I have never rotated it (never needed to). I would like to know if I could get channel 36.1 WFFTHD out of ft.wayne, antennaweb.org says it is supposed to be 16degrees, and the 59.1 im getting is supposed to be at 245degrees (which is where im assuming mine is pointed as im getting 100% input.
59.1 says its 46.2 miles and 36.1 says its 63.1 miles away.
Ive got a 4228 antenna with a 9/10 split antenna and also a CM amp (7777 or something, I dont remember what model the preamp is - the standard one I will say...
Any luck I can see the packers this weekend?
Also, antenna web just listed WFFT, not WFFT-DT, but I assume its the same tower broadcasting both the channel 55 and 36.1 right?

Im up in Muncie, IN and get WXIN-DT 59.1 FOX in HD at 100% My antenna is set to 0 right now I believe as I havent had the channel master plugged into it as I have never rotated it (never needed to). I would like to know if I could get channel 36.1 WFFTHD out of ft.wayne, antennaweb.org says it is supposed to be 16degrees, and the 59.1 im getting is supposed to be at 245degrees (which is where im assuming mine is pointed as im getting 100% input.
59.1 says its 46.2 miles and 36.1 says its 63.1 miles away.
Ive got a 4228 antenna with a 9/10 split antenna and also a CM amp (7777 or something, I dont remember what model the preamp is - the standard one I will say...
Any luck I can see the packers this weekend?
Also, antenna web just listed WFFT, not WFFT-DT, but I assume its the same tower broadcasting both the channel 55 and 36.1 right?

rhwimmers, I'm sorry, but I had to chuckle a little on this one, and not at you, but rather at WFFT-DT, a Nexstar station. Must I say more? Ok, I will. I think Nexstar is still hoping that DTV/HDTV will simply go away, much like BETA and 8-track tapes. Currently, WFFT-DT 36 is operating with a mighty 970 watts @ 211 ft. on their tower. Viewers in Fort Wayne and Allen County have problems getting this one. Also, this station is not equiped for HD, so nothing in HD from Fox is passed on to the viewers. On the other hand, their analog channel, 55, puts out a pretty good signal so you might be able to receive it.

If you are looking for another DTV Fox station that might carry the Packers this weekend, you'd have a MUCH better chance of receiving WRGT-DT 30 (45-1), Dayton, OH which appears to be around 70 miles for you (approx. 114 degrees). This station does pass along Fox-HD and it is transmitting with 425,000 watts (425kW) @ 1150 ft. I live 100 miles from this tower, so I don't see this station all the time but I do see it from time to time.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

Steve

Well I called up Time Warner to pick up the HD Plus Tier that adds ESPN HD. So I will actually get to watch the Colts game this sunday in HD. I live in an apt. complex so I cant just add a big antenna outside to tune in WTHI's HD signal. What is the minimal amount I would need to pick up the WTHI signal in HD? Splitter and rabbit ears??

Do you live near downtown Terre Haute? At the present time, the WTHI-DT signal is being transmitted from the big self-supporting tower next to the downtown studios. You would need a STB (set-top box) receiver and a good indoor antenna, like the Zenith Silver Sensor, due to your location in an apartment. My suggestion for your situation would be to find an inexpensive receiver on Ebay or you might check your nearest Radio Shack. RS has a good receiver on clearance marked down to $90, if you can find any in stock.

Maybe Ken at WTHI will have some tips or correct me if my comments are incorrect.

Steve

Steve, thanks for the information! Is there an easy way to check all the stations within about 100 miles of me for cbs/fox/abc etc to see what football games each is broadcasting? What I did was type in the zip codes for some of the bigger cities around here at tvguide.com to look... Is there a certain percentage the signal needs to be to watch it at a pretty good rate (not too many skips etc)? Thanks again for the information
Ross

Dumb dumb dumb........ :mad:

No argument from me. I hate distort-o-vision. The folks at WISH or CBS won't even respond. Tom Weber apparently is stuck with the decision.

Do you live near downtown Terre Haute? At the present time, the WTHI-DT signal is being transmitted from the big self-supporting tower next to the downtown studios. You would need a STB (set-top box) receiver and a good indoor antenna, like the Zenith Silver Sensor, due to your location in an apartment. My suggestion for your situation would be to find an inexpensive receiver on Ebay or you might check your nearest Radio Shack. RS has a good receiver on clearance marked down to $90, if you can find any in stock.

Maybe Ken at WTHI will have some tips or correct me if my comments are incorrect.

Steve

Yeah. Sounds like a good idea, although I dont deal much with the receiving end of things. So maybe I'll learn from you guys! I do have the best RS antenna and a 26 dB mast mounted pre-amp at home which is abt 20 miles from T.H. Dont get DT at home yet. I do have a STB at my office. Maybe bring it home to check range! BTW, WTHI-DT is currently transmitting low power from the 500' tower at 918 Ohio. Buildout of the high power station is commencing soon. High power will be on the Farmersburg 1000' stick. I think deadline for the T.H. stations is June '06.
ken

Does WTHRDT 13.1 broadcast a stronger signal at 9:00pm for it's primetime shows? It seems like every night I can pull it in at about 30% during the day and when 9:00 rolls around I get between 54-77%.

Do the networks increase their signal at night?

The simple answer is no. Unlike a lot of AM radio stations, TV stations do not change their power output between day and night. You are seeing the results of tropospheric enhancement. Certain layers of the atmosphere bend, bounce and reflect radio (TV) waves, making it possible, usually after sunset, to receive stations at a greater distance or at a higher signal level. It's similar to the reason why it is possible to receive a number of the powerful 50,000 watt AM radio stations from hundreds of miles away during the nighttime hours, like WABC-770, New York. During the winter months, improved TV reception is generally very limited due to changes in the atmosphere and much less tropospheric enhancement, or tropospheric ducting, when signals travel even further, many times along a weather-related frontal system.

WTHR-DT 46 (13.1) is currently licensed and radiating the maximum power as allowed by the FCC for a UHF DTV, 1000kW (1,000,000 watts!!) @ 870 feet. In the near future when all the analog stations are turned off, WTHR-DT will revert back to its current analog channel, 13. Most of the other area DTV stations will remain on their current DTV channel.

Steve

Earlier today I was in the Muncie area so I drove to the new tower site to see its progress since I was there in late July. The tower is now finished (pics attached) and according to the vans/trucks parked outside the transmitter building, it appeared that engineers were inside working on the equipment and getting ready for a sign-on sometime this month (according to the CE last month).

140kW @ 807 ft. (HAAT)

Steve

Im in muncie, where abouts is that tower located? What do they broadcast on PBS thats worth watching in HD anyway?
Going to go try get WRGT-DT 30 (45-1), Dayton, OH now...
Is there an easy way to check all the stations within about 100 miles of me for cbs/fox/abc etc to see what football games each is broadcasting?

Also, antennaweb.org doesnt wgrt out of dayton, I think there is another site that lists them all, a .gov site maybe but I lost that bookmark a while back... Anyone know what it is?

If ken from wthi is reading this board maybe he can explain this. Wthi is broadcasting tennis in hd but not the football game. I'm sure there is a reason, just wondering.

Ken Myers,

Good to finally see some posts from someone at WTHI. Hopefully this week I will be installing a new outdoor antenna (channelmaster) at work....(HH Gregg) so that we can showcase your programming better........

Ok I really want to be able to watch the Colts in HD at work........Stop by some time.

Ken Myers,

Good to finally see some posts from someone at WTHI. Hopefully this week I will be installing a new outdoor antenna (channelmaster) at work....(HH Gregg) so that we can showcase your programming better........

Ok I really want to be able to watch the Colts in HD at work........Stop by some time.


Good luck with the install. Be sure to point to downtown, not Farmersburg!
Ken

If ken from wthi is reading this board maybe he can explain this. Wthi is broadcasting tennis in hd but not the football game. I'm sure there is a reason, just wondering.

Not sure what football game you are referring, but, I know that some of the CBS provided coverage of the games are still not in HD. Most of the games are now in HD, but some are not. Which makes for a programming nightmare. Now sometimes, our operators just dont get the information to switch the DT over to HD. If they dont have information to switch, they remain with SD.

Ken

Ken, the nfl game on sunday. I also checked my guide for next sunday and it doesn't show them as being in hd either. Also to rslamd regarding your post about hh gregg. just wanted to say i had a great deal from you guys and some great service too. Keep up the good work.

Ken Myers,

Good to finally see some posts from someone at WTHI. Hopefully this week I will be installing a new outdoor antenna (channelmaster) at work....(HH Gregg) so that we can showcase your programming better........

Ok I really want to be able to watch the Colts in HD at work........Stop by some time.

That's great news Slam, the more people in the Valley who see a true HD signal it may increase the interest. Increased interest may pressure the local cable groups in finally offering some HD packages.

That's great news Slam, the more people in the Valley who see a true HD signal it may increase the interest. Increased interest may pressure the local cable groups in finally offering some HD packages.

Is there any way we can put some pressure on these local cable groups to offer more HD packaging?

Is there any way we can put some pressure on these local cable groups to offer more HD packaging?

Ark, I probably used the wrong terminology. I don't think we can really pressure them, but what get's their attention is revenue. When a business finds out they are losing the chance at potential revenue then their ears open up a bit I suspect. I would think at this point the demand is still too low around here afraid, but (maybe someone like RSlamD can confirm) if there has been a substantial increase in HD sets around here that maybe the catalyst to get things moving eventually.

Anybody know what's up with WLFI 18.1 CBS from Lafayette? For the past few days everything broadcast in HD looks like SD to me......

The guide has the HD logo next to the show, but they are showing it in SD. Are they having technical issues over there? Anybody else notice this?!? I can't pull the CBS out of Indy up here with my weak antenna so I really want them to get back online before the NFL this weekend! :)

The Steelers game was not in HD on WTHI, however on my Dish on ESPN PrimeTime the highlights were so CBS was covering the game in HD.

Someone forgot to flip the switch.

Happened all the time last year for the Colts game, and I usually had to call and complain. Someone would usually deign to turn it on sometime in the forth quarter.

Sure would be nice if they could do it for all the NFL games this year without being called.

I wanted to ask a similar question. I have Insight and a 1080i CRT RP HDTV (Hitachi 51S715), and almost universally ABC's sports events in HD look like junk. Maybe marginally better than SD but still with what I would call significant visual flaws. For example, on MNF I noticed that the lower half of the screen looked somewhat blocky/fuzzy, almost pixellated. Very distracting, given what I know NFL in HD can look like. Maybe it is specific to my signal strength, or cabling, I'm not sure (using component). I know there is conversion that goes on since ABC's signal is 720p, but I don't have the same issues with ESPN.

Has anyone else had this issue with Insight and ABC?

I wanted to ask a similar question. I have Insight and a 1080i CRT RP HDTV (Hitachi 51S715), and almost universally ABC's sports events in HD look like junk. Maybe marginally better than SD but still with what I would call significant visual flaws. For example, on MNF I noticed that the lower half of the screen looked somewhat blocky/fuzzy, almost pixellated. Very distracting, given what I know NFL in HD can look like. Maybe it is specific to my signal strength, or cabling, I'm not sure (using component). I know there is conversion that goes on since ABC's signal is 720p, but I don't have the same issues with ESPN.

Has anyone else had this issue with Insight and ABC?

I have experimented a LOT with Insight and their HDTV signals. I don't pay for their box, but get the unencrypted signals for 6, 8, 13, 20, 30, and 59. I can not believe how sensitive the QAM signal is to proper signal levels. A little too much amplification and I get funny sound output. Too little amplification and I don't get 13 and 59 at all, since they are clear up on channel 116. Over the air signals are much simpler to work with in my experience.
It ain't easy to get a cable system balanced for cable modem, analog signals, and digital that runs clear up to channel 116.
Let me know what your cable set up is starting with the drop from Insight and ending with your set and I'll see if there's anything that doesn't look right. I'm no expert, but I've certainly made enough mistakes and learned a lot the hard way as to how these signals have to be handled. High quality amps (if needed) and high quality splitters seem to be the key.
Your recent experience with Insight and the S-video cable to your HDTV set makes me a little leary of recommending Insight to come look at your setup.
Oh, and by the way, once in a great while ABC has a glitch with their HD signals that is evident even over the air. And their standard definition digital is absolute crap, worse than analog in my experience, although their analog is pretty bad also. ABC HDTV = beautiful, ABC standard definition = terrible (blocky).

Gentlemen:

In regards to Monday Night Football, I get my HD signal OTA here in Selma [outside of Muncie] and the picture kept changing from HD to SD all night long and it also appeared that I was losing the Dolby 5.1 as well. It would be off for about 15 to 30 seconds and then "poof" there would be the HD and the Dolby and they would stay on for awhile and then "poof" gone again. I am not sure where the problem lies, whether it is here at my site or at WRTV 6.1 or with the network, but it sure is disheartning to try and watch something like that.

coolray

We're working with the folks at WLFI to get their HD back. We'd be doing testing during the day with The Young & The Restless, but it's not available in HD this week, CBS is using that transponder to send out the Senate hearings on Judge Roberts' confirmation. So, the testing is "on-air." We're re-booting some more gear, we replaced some yesterday.

We think the "live" HD is OK now, so the Colts game should be OK, regardless.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering, assisting WLFI

I am half way between Indianapolis and Ft. Wayne (north of Marion). As luck would have it, I can receive both NBC-HD and ABC-HD from both cities but no CBS-HD from either. The engineer from WANE-TV, Ft. Wayne, tells me they are working on "red tape/legal issues" before they can raise their power to full power (now at 40kw). Can someone tell me what WISH-HD plans are? I understand that WISH-HD is at 15.8kw. Is that correct? What channel and power will they go to and when?

Thank you,

Larry

ysaric- The problem with the pixellation on MNF wasn't just through Inisght. I get RTV OTA and I had the same issue-- a rectangular portion of the lower right corner of the picture was strangely blocky. It was most noticable on shots of the field where it looked like the grass was moving. At first I thought it was the entire bottom half of the screen, but as I watched I realized that it was only on the right side. I thought maybe my antenna placement was off. Haven't checked ABC lately to see if there's still a problem.

coolray- The switching between HD and SD on MNF was a network problem. The MNF thread on the HD Programming board is full of complaints about it from all over the country. It wasn't just RTV.

Yasric:
Having read the above two posts which clearly show the problem to be Monday Night Football and NOT Insight, I guess my blame of Insight was misdirected.
If you can get FOX without problems you're more than likely going to get all of the Insight HDTV network signals pretty much as they are sent to Insight. Or at least that's how it appears on my set top box. FOX is the hardest one to "get right" for me, as it is way up at 116-3.
I love this forum!

I am half way between Indianapolis and Ft. Wayne (north of Marion). As luck would have it, I can receive both NBC-HD and ABC-HD from both cities but no CBS-HD from either. The engineer from WANE-TV, Ft. Wayne, tells me they are working on "red tape/legal issues" before they can raise their power to full power (now at 40kw). Can someone tell me what WISH-HD plans are? I understand that WISH-HD is at 15.8kw. Is that correct? What channel and power will they go to and when?

Thank you,

Larry

Larry,

Back in April I saw the new WANE-DT transmitter which is a high-power setup. The station is ready to crank up the power "big time" as soon as the FCC gives the green light. Plus, the transmit antenna will be mounted much higher on their tower which will also greatly increase the coverage area.

WANE, Fort Wayne is owned by LIN Broadcasting, the same company that owns WISH, Indy and WLFI, Lafayette. All of them are CBS affiliates and all of them are passing CBS-HD. As posted above, WLFI-DT is currently repairing a temporary problem with its HD feed. Have you tried receiving WLFI-DT 11 (18.1)? Its transmitter and tower are located in Rossville, IN, east of Lafayette. The station sends a great signal into Kokomo. FCC's coverage map for WLFI-DT....http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT988218.html

Meanwhile, WISH-DT 9 (8.1) is currently licensed at 19.5kW @ 932 ft. (HAAT). This is the maximum power allowed by the FCC for this station. Keep in mind that VHF stations do not require as much power as UHF stations, so they operate with much less power but have very similar coverage areas. WISH-DT will remain on ch. 9 even after the analogs are turned off in the near future. According to the FCC coverage map, it appears that with a good VHF antenna WISH-DT should be available in the Marion area..... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT579793.html

Steve

Thanks, Steve.

Yes, I receive Ch 18 analog (I'm watching it now), but not 18.1. I guess I'll wait on WANE since I can receive WISH analog but the HD at 9.3 fades in and out too much. Since I receive Ft. Wayne PBS (39.1, .2, and.3) much better than WFYI PBS, I'll probably leave the antenna pointing toward Ft. Wayne this winter. I'd rather not add a VHF antenna on my mast with the CM 4228 all ready there. I'm up to 20 feet AGL (braced at 10 feet) and don't want more wind/ice load. The 4228 with a CM 7777 preamp does a pretty good job with channel 13. Just not good enough with ch 8 and 9.

Thanks again.

The Steelers game was not in HD on WTHI, however on my Dish on ESPN PrimeTime the highlights were so CBS was covering the game in HD.

Someone forgot to flip the switch.

Happened all the time last year for the Colts game, and I usually had to call and complain. Someone would usually deign to turn it on sometime in the forth quarter.

Sure would be nice if they could do it for all the NFL games this year without being called.


That seems to be happening more frequently here in the last week with WTHI not switching for some reason (noted this with Yes Dear, 2 and 1/2 men, CSI Miami, etc. and other HD programs). Hey KEN please don't take this as a slap because we do appreciate what you guys do for us HD freaks. Just thought you might want/need to know. Speaking of CBS, the best example of what HD should look like is the CBS HD promo they run sometimes. It's receives more of a WOW factor by friends more than anything except for the HD football games.

After watching Lost on RTV last night, I noticed that the blocky section of the picture is actually still there, but it's a lot harder to notice on a moving image. You really only notice if you're looking for it or if a static pattern is left onscreen in that area for a few seconds. Wonder what the deal is...

The Steelers game was not in HD on WTHI, however on my Dish on ESPN PrimeTime the highlights were so CBS was covering the game in HD.

Someone forgot to flip the switch.

Happened all the time last year for the Colts game, and I usually had to call and complain. Someone would usually deign to turn it on sometime in the forth quarter.

Sure would be nice if they could do it for all the NFL games this year without being called.

Yeah, we still getting our act together. Some of the problems arise due to the fact that CBS has very limited satellite space available for HD stuff. Some affiliate feeds are NOT provided for HD transmission. Now maybe ESPN had a fiber from the game or something. I get daily emails from CBS on our HD feeds. I see that CBS will be providing HD coverage of New England @ Carolina / Cleveland @ Green Bay / and San Diego @ Denver this weekend. Not sure if WTHI will carry ant of these, but if so, we will have it. <unless CBS makes changes!>
Ken

That seems to be happening more frequently here in the last week with WTHI not switching for some reason (noted this with Yes Dear, 2 and 1/2 men, CSI Miami, etc. and other HD programs). Hey KEN please don't take this as a slap because we do appreciate what you guys do for us HD freaks. Just thought you might want/need to know. Speaking of CBS, the best example of what HD should look like is the CBS HD promo they run sometimes. It's receives more of a WOW factor by friends more than anything except for the HD football games.


HD Delay computer locked up, and required a restart. We have to dalay our CBS programming this time of year. Which means that, along with delaying CBD-SD, we also have to delay CBS-HD. It appears that our CBS-HD delay server was indicating proper operation, but no output! You would think that paying top $$$ for this stuff, it would work 24/7/365! Broadcast equipment has to work till the day it dies! It's amazing how much money we have spent, and wont get compensation from. It will get better though, when SD gets turned off. Boy, mom and dad aren't going to like that!

Ken

Thanks for the reply Ken. Helps us restless natives understand the pressure and problems you guys have to go through. I'm quite aware of equipment problems after messing up my antenna setup. Went from "I can't believe I'm receiving that, to major multipath problems". Don't think the wife is real thrilled with the idea of another $108.00 spent on a Square Shooter.

Thanks for the reply Ken. Helps us restless natives understand the pressure and problems you guys have to go through. I'm quite aware of equipment problems after messing up my antenna setup. Went from "I can't believe I'm receiving that, to major multipath problems". Don't think the wife is real thrilled with the idea of another $108.00 spent on a Square Shooter.


Yeah, understood. I just put $175 into my home antenna system in order to fight the cable guy. I am east of TH, and now get ALL of Indy's SD, Champaign, WLFI-18, most of E-ville and Louisville, Cinnci... WOW, what a rig! ow just need to notch the local FM!

What we do here is, we take our normal distribution SD program line and convert it to 1080i. We feed the 1080i into a HD A/V router. A few things happen there. We take our 608 captioning and convert to 708 making available both captioning signals. The CBS-HD gets routed to this same router in order for us to be able to switch between the two signals <WTHI-SD , CBS-HD>. This routed signal gets sent to the actual DT Encoder which also gets data information from the captioning. From that point, we add EPG to the data stream so everyone can see what's comming up!

Some of the storm damage we had at the station caused a failure in the SD to HD upconverter chassis. One card was abt $5500! Thats just to get our normal SD upconverted to 1080i <in a 14:9 ratio>. We do stretch the SD just a pinch. If you hadn't noticed, good for us! We have split the difference between 12:9 and 16:9. The new card allows us to make changes. Also, we have notice a drastic improvement to the process over the older <2.5 yr old> card. I'm sure Mr. Weber can also explain the costs envolved with the whole process. When all is said and done, probably $500K just in basic studio equipment, then add STL gear, and DTV transmission. WOW! Right now, all TV stations are having to budget for equipment that the majority of the public will not see for another 5 years!

Ken, you gettin any of the Indy HD channels? If not who can you pull in?

I sure am interested in your rig that allows you to receive all those channels!!

Ken, you gettin any of the Indy HD channels? If not who can you pull in?

I sure am interested in your rig that allows you to receive all those channels!!

Well, really, I just got the biggest antenna that RS sells locally. Put it up on my 70' tower <I'm a Ham Operator!>, found a really cheap 26db mast mounted amp <cheap because we all know what happens to those amps>, ran RG-6 into the house, then split to TV's. I dont have any kind of DT receive capabilities yet. I do have a Set Top Box at my office that I should take for a test drive...hhmmmm!!!
Sometimes, I have to null a station in order to watch another on the same channel. If I do bring the STB home, I'll post some results for you. What are you guys experiencing with the full power DT's? I mean as far a range? And is there any difference if a DT has more than one channel on the stream? How many doing at least 5.1?
Ken.

Well, really, I just got the biggest antenna that RS sells locally. Put it up on my 70' tower <I'm a Ham Operator!>, found a really cheap 26db mast mounted amp <cheap because we all know what happens to those amps>, ran RG-6 into the house, then split to TV's. I dont have any kind of DT receive capabilities yet. I do have a Set Top Box at my office that I should take for a test drive...hhmmmm!!!
Sometimes, I have to null a station in order to watch another on the same channel. If I do bring the STB home, I'll post some results for you. What are you guys experiencing with the full power DT's? I mean as far a range? And is there any difference if a DT has more than one channel on the stream? How many doing at least 5.1?
Ken.

Good info and interesting questions Ken. I lean a little closer to the Joe Six pack crowd on this stuff but will try my best.

I don't know why but I've never taken the time to hookup for 5.1. You've given me a good excuse to buy more cables.

I live about 3 miles south of Clinton or 9 miles north of Terre Haute depending on how you want to look at it. Pretty lucky I live halfway up a hill and not in the lower part of the area. Lived in Clinton 2 1/2 years ago, used only the Zenith Silver Sensor and WTHI was the only DT signal you could get. WTWO was on air the same, but was only a haunting on/off blinking light on my box.

Until recently I was using the Sammy 151 (I hate this stb box), a Winegard SS2000 Square Shooter antenna (has received mixed reviews from folks, but I've loved it and it does look good), with the antenna mounted on a back deck railing 18 to 20ft off the ground. Now were talking only DT here, WAS receiving WTHI, WTWO, and the FOX station all maxed out on the meter. WAS receiving WTIU 30-1 and 30-2 (according to aweb about 67.7 miles from my house) 100% of the time with a strong signal. The PAX/Worship 63.1-2-3-4 would be 100% every night after 6pm and many times everyday during the day. Actually it was rare if PAX was not there.

Indy channels could be hit or miss at times with WRTV 6.1, 6.2 and 59.1 being pretty consistent especially at night. 20.1 WFYI and it's subchannels were next in line, with 13-1 (the NBC channel) right there. WNDY seems to be a tuffy from my location, and WTTV has to have the fog roll in for me to get a steady signal.

As I stated before on here I got greedy and stupid recently, and decided to do a little testing by moving my antenna while the power supply to the preamp (preamp is built inside of the antenna casing) was still on. Toasted something and now I have multipath problems like you wouldn't believe (doesn't help living out in the country with a billion trees around you). Anway when working properly the Square Shooter on the good tropo days was bringing in stations (without having to rotate the antenna) from Dayton and Cincy Ohio, Louisville KY, and several Illinois stations. Of course now the wife factor comes in to play. Now why do you need another antenna? And how come it looks like the other one?

Seriously thinking about maybe trying a Channel Master 4228 instead with the great reviews it receives. Of course in the back of mind is why get greedy and stick with something you know works. Decisions, decisions, damn these hobbies (tv, hometheater,) get expensive.

Finally (maybe longest post ever, sorry), I know this should probably go into the MEET forum but would anyone in the Terre Haute area like to try a hometheater, HDTV meet sometime? I know the guys in Indy do on occasion, just thought there might be a few locally that might like to try something like that.

WNDY seems to be a tuffy from my location, and WTTV has to have the fog roll in for me to get a steady signal.




There's a reason that WNDY-23 is rough. The transmitter is in Marion. It's pretty rocky sometimes at my place in Clay County. I am good friends with the former Chief Engineer from there. Not sure if WNDY-DT is transmitting from the same tower though...
WTTV-4 has to deal with tons of impulse noise. I usually get WTTV-4 P1 quality with the new antenna, but remember the cable days of noisy channel 4!!!
Ken.

Hi all - I have a question regarding the cable type to run out to an outdoor antenna. I assume its RG58, and if so, how far can you run it to an OTA antenna outside? Also, any recommendations on antenna type given my situation would be highly appreciated as well.

I'm using an HIRD-E8 HD OTA receiver if it matters. I live in the Mooresville area, and with a cheapy indoor Terk Pylon antenna (located indoors in the basement below grade) the only main HD OTA channel I can get is 59-1 with a couple of other odd ball ones (PAX something or other, etc.).

Finally, if anyone has any experience with the HIRD-E8 (or a dang users manual) that would be cool too.

Thanks!

- John

There's a reason that WNDY-23 is rough. The transmitter is in Marion. It's pretty rocky sometimes at my place in Clay County. I am good friends with the former Chief Engineer from there. Not sure if WNDY-DT is transmitting from the same tower though...
WTTV-4 has to deal with tons of impulse noise. I usually get WTTV-4 P1 quality with the new antenna, but remember the cable days of noisy channel 4!!!
Ken.

Actually, the WNDY transmitter(s) and tower are quite a distance from Marion. They're located in Hamilton County northeast of Noblesville, near Strawtown, at the intersection of 246th Street and St. Rd. 213. The nearly 1000 ft. tower combined with the 5000kW (yes, 5,000,000 watts!!) analog signal and 1000kW digital signal allow the station to send enough signal to Marion, its city of license, to meet the FCC requirements. That monthly electric bill has to be SHOCKING!!

Both the analog and the digital operate with directional antennas, so not all areas get the full dose of this huge power. Here's a link to the FCC coverage map for WNDY-DT 32 (23.1). http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT616116.html

Steve

Maybe locally the luck is changing for the Terre Haute/Clinton area concerning OTA. Channel 15 out of Champaign, Illinois has changed from an NBC affiliate to ABC. I believe some folks in Terre Haute are able to receive this station so for those who like seeing Monday Night football in hi-def now there's something a little closer and attainable.

EDIT....Well never mind on this. It appears because of the change WICD will NOT be showing MNFL in HD for another 7 or 8 weeks. Bah hum bug..,,,

Well, here's my list of stations received here in Clay County last night <Sun 09/18/05>.

I'll preface this with the analog stations first.
2 WTWO
3<WAVE and WCIA>
4 WTTV
5 <Cinnci or maybe Dayton>
6 WRTV
7 WTVW
8 WISH
9 WNIN
10 WTHI
11 WHAS
12 WILL
13 WTHR
15 WICD - WOW!!!
16 WSIU <WUSI?>
17 ? <70 degrees az.>
18 WLFI
19 WAXY? WB19
20 WFYI and WB20?
21 religious?
22 WVUT
23 WNDY
25 WEHT
28 religious?
29 PBS Paducah
30 WTIU
32 WLKY
33 ABC Shelby County, KY?
34 Louisville
35 PBS <180 Az.>
40 WHMB and NBC Bowlingreen, KY?
43 religious?

Here are the DT's listed as their DT channel
2 WTWO
6 WRTV
8 WISH
9 WNIN
10 WTHI
11 WHAS
13 WTHR
15 <WZTV>
16 WUSI
20 WFYI
20 WBXX <Crossville, TN>
22 WVUT
23 WNDY
30 WTIU
42 WCLJ
59 WXIN
63 WIPX

Not bad!
Ken.

Ken,

Some great catches last evening. As a TV/DTV DXer, I saw some of those yesterday, but I have a number of limitations due to my proximity to the Indy antenna farm (3-5 miles away). Not a good location for DXing with such strong RF, but during the past 3 years I've been able to log 104 different DTV stations. A DXer in Greensburg received WHNS-DT 57, Greenville, SC (@ 323 miles) yesterday and has now logged 255 different DTV stations.

I would suspect your ABC station on ch. 33 was this one from Alabama.
http://www.abc3340.com/ It generally makes it up this way several times a year.

BTW, while I was at work today, my new Humax DTV receiver, which constantly scans for new stations while in stand-by mode, logged WIPB-DT 52 (49.1 & 49.2), Muncie. It's not on tonight but apparently the engineers must have had it on the air for testing today.

Steve

If I'm interpreting the angle correctly, the analog ch. 17 is probably WIIH, our low-power Univision station - 14 kW at 500 feet. Nice catch! If it's in Spanish, it's WIIH.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering
WNDY, WIIH, LWS as well, and the Indy Hub

If I'm interpreting the angle correctly, the analog ch. 17 is probably WIIH, our low-power Univision station - 14 kW at 500 feet. Nice catch! If it's in Spanish, it's WIIH.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering
WNDY, WIIH, LWS as well, and the Indy Hub

Hey Tom, I'll bet your right! 70 degrees put my antenna at the INDY antenna farm! Couldn't get much out of it <around P2/P3> but OK to view for a few minutes. Thanks for the ID!

Ken

Once again strange how things work. With my busted antenna and the fog rolling in I was getting very strong signals from WLKY and WAVE out of Louisville. Even WTTV would come in a minute and then drop out, but none of the other Indy channels.

Ok, here is my situation. I am wanting an antenna which will pick up the digital stations from Indy. I have called several installers. Most of them tell me this can only be done with a tower (I live in West Lafayette). However, one installer told me a Winguard w/preamp will work from my attic.

I live in a one story, with no tall trees and a great line of site. In fact, my current antenna (Terk Directv clip-on piece of crap) can pull in 6.1, 18.1, 59.1 and on some nights 13.1, 20.1 and 23.1. So, I think I might live in a hot area.

Has anyone had luck in West Lafayette/Lafayette with an attic-mounted antenna? Anybody know of any good installers? Thanks in advance!

to rtheodorow

I live in Selma, which is 5 miles east of Muncie, so I am no help with the Lafayette question, but I do have an outdoor antenna which is mounted in my attic and I can always get 6.1 and 8.1 and 13.1 and usually 23.1 and usually 59.1, but lately I have had a lower signal strength on 59.1 and I can't get 20.1 except very early in the morning and 29.1 not at all. I do not have a preamp on my antenna, but wish I had known about them when I put the antenna up there. There is so much insulation up there that you can not see where to walk and it is way back in the house so I am stuck with what I have. That said, I would highly reccomend a rotor, no matter where you put your antenna as I have one on mine and would not be without one. I also feel that although I am getting pretty good signal strength with what I have, it would still be better if I had an outdoor tower with a really good antenna. Hope this helps some.

coolray

Thanks, Steve.

Yes, I receive Ch 18 analog (I'm watching it now), but not 18.1. I guess I'll wait on WANE since I can receive WISH analog but the HD at 9.3 fades in and out too much. Since I receive Ft. Wayne PBS (39.1, .2, and.3) much better than WFYI PBS, I'll probably leave the antenna pointing toward Ft. Wayne this winter. I'd rather not add a VHF antenna on my mast with the CM 4228 all ready there. I'm up to 20 feet AGL (braced at 10 feet) and don't want more wind/ice load. The 4228 with a CM 7777 preamp does a pretty good job with channel 13. Just not good enough with ch 8 and 9.

Thanks again.

Since I posted this I've added a Winegard YA-1713 high-band VHF antenna. Now, I can receive WISH-TV (sometimes at night only) and WFYI-DT (all the time). I didn't realize that WLFI was not 18.1 but 11.3 and the radar at 11.4. The "auto program" on my TV found and mapped them. I can receive CBS all the time now--Hurrah!! "Survivor" and "CSI" are on CBS tonight! :)

The YA-1713 with the CM 7777 pre-amp really work well together. Separating the VHF and UHF, in the pre-amp, seems to help the UHF reception, also.

WLFI digital broadcasts using channel 11, but it is supposed to "map" to virtual channel numbers 18.1 and 18.2. If it's showing up as 11.3 and 11.4, there's something out of whack - I'll have to take a look when I'm up there next.

Also, you'll want the VHF-Hi antennae for the future. We're staying on 9, and WTHR is returning to 13 once analog goes away. WLFI will be staying with 11.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I 2nd the complaint on having only tennis on that day! Who watches tennis...I mean really! heh, although HD tennis DID look pretty cool.

Am I missing something here or does channel 8 (wish tv) not come in HD in the indianapolis area? I dont seem to pull it in..Didnt see it on antennaweb.org either, just wish - no wish-hd or anything, why is that? Im actually in muncie 47304 - but pull in 59.1 at 100%
If I can get 45miles away at 100% but I cant get any percent trying to go 62 miles away (dayton) is this just too far away? Is there a "average" for HD OTA vs analog? Ive got a 4228 with preamp 7777 and a 9/10 split analog antenna
Thanks
Ross

How are you getting WRTV-DT and WEHT at the same time? I infer you have a rotor.

p:

The last few weeks I've noticed some "shimmering" in the lower 1/8th right side of my display on all HD content on 6-1. I saw it during Monday Night Football this week (both games) and Lost. Interestingly, when the Saints-Giants switched from ABC to ESPN at 8pm the problem went away for that game, so it seems to be an issue with 6-1. The "shimmering" is a rectangle of pixels that seem to dance around.

This is OTA with a DirecTV H-10 receiver, Mits ws-55411 RPT, component cables.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Steve

to swegrzyn

Yes, I have also noticed the same thing on 6-1 and not on any other channel. I witnessed the same thing as you did when the game switched over to ESPN. It seems to be more noticeable to me on MNF than any other program. I do not watch a lot of Channel 6 so I am not sure about other programs, I did watch Lost but do not remember seeing the problem on my setup. I too watch most of my HD OTA.

coolray

WLFI digital broadcasts using channel 11, but it is supposed to "map" to virtual channel numbers 18.1 and 18.2. If it's showing up as 11.3 and 11.4, there's something out of whack - I'll have to take a look when I'm up there next.

Also, you'll want the VHF-Hi antennae for the future. We're staying on 9, and WTHR is returning to 13 once analog goes away. WLFI will be staying with 11.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I didn't explain it very well, Tom. It maps to 18.1 and 18.2 correctly. I did a "manual search" before I allowed the TV to map the virtual channels and it didn't receive it if I punched the channel (18.1 and 18.2) in directly. The station does come in if I punch in 11.3 for the station and 11.4 for the radar. It's a Sony KDF-E50A10 and likes to do the mapping by it's self. :)

Thanks for the information. Will you stay with the same power on 9? Do you know what power 13 will be using?

I tried watching "Survivor" in HD, last evening, but I was receiving too many errors from WLFI-DT (couldn't get WISH-DT) and they went to SD after the first commercial break. I switched over to WISH SD, on Marion Brighthouse cable, as the SD there was better than the errors on SD 11-DT. "CSI" on WLFI-DT was in HD with less, but many errors, and "Criminal Minds" HD was even better with fewer errors. I hope WLFI-DT gets the HD worked out as it's great when the errors are not there (it drove my wife crazy when the sound dropped out and the picture froze :) ). I receive it at 70-80, north of Marion, on the Sony's "meter", day or night.

P.S. I'm watching "The Young and The Restless", on WLFI-DT, as I type this (1 PM)and there are many picture pixelations but few audio drop-outs. It started in HD and is now in SD. Boy, this is an awful TV program! :)

"Am I missing something here or does channel 8 (wish tv) not come in HD in the indianapolis area? I dont seem to pull it in..Didnt see it on antennaweb.org either, just wish - no wish-hd or anything, why is that?"

WISH-DT maps to virtual channel 8.1 but is on physical channel 9. Try punching in 9.3 for the station, 9.4 for weather, and 9.5 for the radar.

It's possible that we may be able to raise power after analog goes away, but it's important to remember that the relationship between transmitted power and receivability is NOT linear - it's incredibly logarithmic.

As an example, if we double our power (and thus our electric bill), we would pick up -maybe- 5 miles of radius on our coverage area. So, our being able to increase power from 19.5 kW to 30 kW of power (the maximum allowed) after analog goes away may well get your meters to go from 70 to 74, in effect.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,
It's probably worth pointing out that the meter on most digital receivers aren't so much a measure of strength as signal quality. Thus a weak but clean signal can theoretically measure higher then a strong one heavily polluted with multipath etc. Given this it's possible that raising your power may have no affect on our meters. Of course a strong clean signal is still better then a weak clean signal. Not sure how all of this goes into the error rate and so on that the meter puts out as a measure from 0 to 100. I'm just repeating what others have passed onto me but did want to get it out that upping transmitter power isn't the cure for all reception woes. One still has to work on antenna type and placement.

BTW, I'm getting WISH-DT fine here in Plainfield with a RS double bow-tie set up in the attic.

It's possible that we may be able to raise power after analog goes away, but it's important to remember that the relationship between transmitted power and receivability is NOT linear - it's incredibly logarithmic.

As an example, if we double our power (and thus our electric bill), we would pick up -maybe- 5 miles of radius on our coverage area. So, our being able to increase power from 19.5 kW to 30 kW of power (the maximum allowed) after analog goes away may well get your meters to go from 70 to 74, in effect.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Yes, I remember that from working on transmitters back in 1958-61, while in the U.S. Air Force. :)

Larry

I just noticed that WLFI-DT 11 (18.1) is back in business with HD. The New England/Pittsburgh game looks good.

Religious broadcaster (TBN), WCLJ-DT 56 (42.1), Bloomington/Indianapolis recently raised its power and is now sending a strong signal over the Indy metro area from its tower in Trafalgar, next to the WTTV tower.

Steve

Sorry, once again an update for the Terre Haute/Clinton area folks concerning 15.1 the ABC station out of Champaign, Illinois.

Yes, Monday night football was indeed shown in HD last night by WICD. I believe as long as you are using an outside antenna people in the area you should have very little trouble in getting this channel.

So, so far we can at least get CBS (24.1 WTHI), PBS (30.1 WTIU), and ABC (15.1 WICD) in HD. If TWO and FOX get with it we'll have NBC and FOX covered.

And on the final side note, as Steve advised (42.1 WCLJ) has been locking in on my box as of late after replacing the Square Shooter with.....another SS2000. Now I use the old one for experimentation.

The last few weeks I've noticed some "shimmering" in the lower 1/8th right side of my display on all HD content on 6-1. I saw it during Monday Night Football this week (both games) and Lost. Interestingly, when the Saints-Giants switched from ABC to ESPN at 8pm the problem went away for that game, so it seems to be an issue with 6-1. The "shimmering" is a rectangle of pixels that seem to dance around.

This is OTA with a DirecTV H-10 receiver, Mits ws-55411 RPT, component cables.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Steve

I've noticed the same thing too during MNF. Any word on what this might be?

Anybody know someone over a 13.1? Last week of a few show they forgot to (switch to HD until the show was over). Last night they never did on Surface.

Brad

I've noticed the same thing too during MNF. Any word on what this might be?

I, too, noticed this last evening during MNF so I contacted Paul Roehm at WRTV. Paul is asking whether it appears during delayed HD programming, too? I see that swegrzyn reported that he also noticed the problem during LOST, which is time delayed. Has anyone else seen it during HD programming that is not live? I haven't had time to watch much TV lately.

Any additional info would be helpful as Paul looks into these reports. Thanks.

Steve

Anybody know someone over a 13.1? Last week of a few show they forgot to (switch to HD until the show was over). Last night they never did on Surface.

Brad

Hi Brad. I'll send an email to Steve Hicks at WTHR in Master Control. I'm not sure, but maybe they had a problem with their HD recorder for the time delay setup.

Steve

I have noticed this for about 2-3 weeks now. It was so obvious my wife even was anoyed by it.

WRTV SHimmering....

I have been in contact with Paul R. about this. He as well asked me whether this was on tape delayed shows. I watched some shows last night and could not see it at all. So either he has fixed the issue, or its just on MNF. It is very obvious and annoying on MNF, so I dont see how I could have missed it last night.

Greg

Hi Brad. I'll send an email to Steve Hicks at WTHR in Master Control. I'm not sure, but maybe they had a problem with their HD recorder for the time delay setup.

Steve

I received this reply from Steve at WTHR................]

"NBC is having some audio problems with some of the new shows and there were some weather related issues with heavy rain and not being able to receive HD on the KU band sat receiver."

Steve