Besides WNDY-DT,32, Marion/Indianapolis signing on this week, according to www.100000watts.com two other Indiana stations have just signed on. WSJV-DT, 58, Elkhart/South Bend, Oct. 30, and WTHI-DT, 24, Terre Haute, Nov. 1. If anyone has any additional information on either one of these stations please post. Thanks.

Steve

I can confirm that FOX28 (WSJV/Elkhart) began DTV on 58-1 this week.

Just got off the phone with the GM at WSJV-DT 58 (FOX), If you can not get a good signal or can't get them at all it's due to the fact they are running low(er) power and have no future date set to run the FCC set 671KW, so looking at the location and signal of other transmitters in the area I think they are running in the area of 100-200KW.

Randy

10.5kw according to the sta application.

I think part of their reluctance to increase power might be since the LP station that used to be at channel 58 moved to channel 57. I'm sure the two channels right next to each other can't be an optimal solution.

That....
Or the power bill:-)

Hello everyone I have been reading posts for almost 2 years first reply. WTTV-DT Has been on for about 2 weeks. It is on 59-2 I think WXIN fox 59 just bought them.

Brad

BradH,

Have you been able to pick up WTHI-DT, 24, Terre Haute? You're not too far from their tower in Farmersburg. If you have seen it, is it on the air 24/7?

Steve

Goldrich

I will try this weekend, I pickup channel 10 very well. I pickup WVUT-DT 52 on 22-1 Vincennes PBS with about 90 on the meter. I will report back after I try WTHI.

Brad

Goldrich

Forgot to ask did you try picking up WTTV-DT on 59-2?

Brad

Brad,

Yes, I watch WTTV-DT on 59-2 (45-2) a lot since they started it a few weeks ago. I live on the northside of Indy near Carmel. I'm only 3 miles from the WTHR tower and 5-6 miles from WXIN, WRTV and WISH. WNDY is 17 miles away but very strong. I recently added a preamp to my outside VHF antenna and now I'm able to receive a good signal from WLFI-DT, 11, Lafayette. Their tower is near Rossville and is right at 40 miles from my location. And,no official word on this yet, but a local tv engineer believes that WTIU-DT, 14, Bloomington might be on the air before the end of the year. WFYI-DT, 21, has its transmitter in town and I was told that its new digital antenna was installed on the tower last week. Now they are waiting on the building addition to the WRTV transmitter building they share in order to have room for the new transmitter and equipment. I've heard it will be April or May before WFYI-DT signs on.

I'm curious to hear from you about WTHI, like how your reception is, how many hours a day it's on the air, etc. Whatever you can report would be appreciated. Thanks.

Steve

Steve

WTHI is up and running however I was only able to get 32 / 44 strength with a lot of drop off. They were passing though CBS prime time programing saturday and sunday night picture when I was able to get it was on par with WISH TV. I didn't check to see if they were on after 11:00pm or not.

Brad

Does anyone know what's going on at WLFI-DT, 11, Lafayette? It's been off the air all week.

WLFI-DT, 11, Lafayette is still off the air. I sent an e-mail to the CE but I have not received a reply. Maybe the transmission equipment got zapped by lightning during the heavy storms on Sunday, Nov. 10. I'm not sure if the station was off the air prior to that date.

Steve

There are some non-engineering issues. They're being worked on.

I spoke to the engineer at WLFI last Wednesday and he did confirm that they are off air for the time being, but did confirm that they will be having their HD equipment installed and running by the end of the year!!

Last Friday I brought my STB over to a installation I did in Albion, In. a ew months ago and we hooked up the Samsung digital tuner to the antenna. The antenna is a Lance 4 bow tie screen reflector type and the other antenna is a small radio shack uhf yagi. The two antennas are combined and feed into a Channel Master u/v pre-amp. I did receive three digital channels from South Bend dt 30. 42. 58. Another weird thing appeared and locked in was dt 12 Winm located just east of Butler , In. They have an anlog uhf 63 also. The two antennas were not cut for vhf and were not even aimed in that direction and it was still viewable. At my house I did put up a highband vhf yagi 16 feet off the ground and I did measure 200 microvolts or -14 db. behind my stb. And the signal is just to the left of the mid point arrow on the Samsung signal meter display. This is just a tempory antenna fix for now. I did find a combination highband vhf and uhf antenna and I have it now. It has seven vhf elements and 10 uhf elements on it perfect for this market. It is made by Winegard. Best to everone . John L.

Today I received an e-mail from the CE at WLFI, Lafayette regarding WLFI-DT being off the air. First of all, I wish him a speedy recovery. He just returned to work after shattering his right wrist......Man, that's gotta hurt!! The station plans to be passing HD from CBS very soon and the station is "waiting on some equipment and doing some modifications."

I'm not getting WTTV anymore on 59-2. Anyone else having problems or know what is going on?

WTTV-DT on 59-2 is OK here.

BTW, WTHR-DT ch 46 is now running 1,000 kw. I'm too close to notice a differance, but the increase from 700kw, should help the fringe.

Kevin,

I live only 6 miles from the WXIN tower and I've noticed over the past few days that the signal reading on my DTC100 for 59-1 & 59-2 has dropped from 86-92 to 58-63. I am not experiencing any problems, even with the lower signal, but at your distance from the tower I can understand why you would have a problem. I'm not sure why their signal has suddenly dropped like this. Maybe the engineering staff is doing some work on the transmitter and/or getting ready for their FCC approved power increase. If it is still low like this next week I'll send an e-mail to Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV.

Larryv.....Thanks for the update on WTHR-DT. I knew it was coming but I wasn't aware that it had kicked in.....

Steve

Kevin,

I just got home from work and now I'm getting the more normal readings from 59-1 & 59-2 (84-90). Whatever was going on with their signal appears to have been corrected today. Try receiving them this evening. Hopefully you'll be seeing them again.

Steve

I just found this post. I just started to try and get DTV OTA today. Now I see why I haven't been able to get WLFIDT. Seems what you said here is that they are not totally up and going yet. Correct?

I'm in Lafayette, and trying to grab the Indy channels. Not a lot of luck. So far I can only get Channel 9 CBS. And it isn't supper signal.

Welcome to the world of HD broadcasting or rather reception. It would be helpful if you could offer up some information on your antenna (type, height, obstructions...).

I personally live on the westside of Kokomo and have no trouble receiving Indianapolis HD. I didn't even realize WXIN had a blip until I read this thread.

You can read my antenna configuration in my signature. It is up about 12 feet above a 1 story home with a walk-out basement. I can pick up stations from South Bend/Elkhart and am looking forward to Ft. Wayne being on air soon.

Naturally, I had no problems receiving channel 18 out of Lafayette when they were doing digital braodcasting. (I think they are still off the air.) I have read in these forums that they will be doing HD by Jan 1.

Don't forget to fill us in on your Antenna. Here is an old thread I started asking about antenna suggestions. It might give you some help...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156104

I hope I have a great welcome into HD. So far not a lot of luck.

I'm currently running a RS VU-90 XR in my attic of a two story house on the south side of Lafayette. Without a Preamp. Thats why I think I'm having trouble with reception from Indy. I'm going to buy a CM7777 this week hope it helps. Right now I only get one channel 9. Out of Indy.

I can almost bet you are going to need to get the antenna out of the attic and up on the roof. Attic installs have a fair amount of loss depending what type of construction materials were used.

Here is my monster install (which I promise is level despite the optical illusion in the photos):

http://www.netmon.org/avs-images/tv1.jpg
http://www.netmon.org/avs-images/tv2.jpg

Jim,

What type of Tripod (tower )is that ? Where did you get it? ( $$$ )

I've got a similar set-up ,using a "Antenna Craft CCS1843" (15' long) with a rotor on a 3' tripod. Would like to go with a sturdier tripod and gain a little more height.

Thanks

-Doug

I had a local TV antenna installer do it for me. However, I did find in online at Skyvision. One side is climbable. It is $75.00 + truck.

http://www.skyvision.com/store/mi6000025.html

Looks like WCLJ Bloomington (TBN) DT-56 has hit the airwaves recently.Assume they are low power on an STA @ 7.1KW. If that's the case they're only throwing around 800 watts in my direction @36mi with a solid 70 on the DTC-100.

No WCLJ here, 440w in my direction at 28 mi.

I just received an e-mail from the CE at WLFI-DT, 11, Lafayette, stating that he plans to have the station back on the air today. However, he says that he has not received all the equipment needed to pass HD from CBS, but that it should be ready very soon.

Steve

At 11 p.m. tonight I discovered that WHMB-DT, 16, Indianapolis, is now on the air. The station is operating at low power, I believe, from the new antenna that was recently installed on its old 500 ft. tower at its studio location on St. Rd. 238, Noblesville. I live just south of Carmel and I'm getting a strong 88-91 signal on the DTC-100.

Steve

According to their FCC application, WHMB-DT, 16 is operating at 18.6 kw. with a directional antenna @ 459'. I'm 9 miles away and getting a very good signal. I noticed this morning that the station is multicasting on 16-2 and 16-3.

Steve

I also picked up WHMB-DT last night. Here in Spencer the signal was 40-50 without me having to turn the rotor any.


Brad

18 (11) from Lafayette is back broadcasting.

I was unable to pick up WHMB from Indianapolis (Nobelsville) in Kokomo.

Originally posted by goldrich
According to their FCC application, WHMB-DT, 16 is operating at 18.6 kw. with a directional antenna @ 459'. I'm 9 miles away and getting a very good signal. I noticed this morning that the station is multicasting on 16-2 and 16-3.

Steve

The wind finally died down this evening,so I went out and ran the tower up to see what's on.

Locked on DT-16,but it's weak,at 40-45 on the DTC.If my calculations are correct,they're throwing a whoppin' 30 Watts in my direction.

Also picking up DT-56 with a good 76 signal.Their ERP in my direction is around 102 Watts.

Both these stations are using directional antennas,pointed in a S-SW direction.

Max HD,

I've tried several times to get WCLJ-DT but no success. If the station is aiming its powerful (!!??) signal toward Bloomington from its tower in Trafalgar, then very little signal is going to make it to the far northside of Indy. It is interesting that you could even lock WHMB-DT with such little signal your way. Any word on when WTIU-DT, Bloomington might be hitting the air?

Steve

Max HD...how are things. I still have my 4228 that is sitting and collecting dust. Do you know of anybody who needs one in the area? Also, I'd love to do the televes stuff, but I will need to wait until after the first of the year for financial clearance. Kids are expensive.

Steve,

WCLJ DT-56 is throwing very little signal in your direction.If you want to find exactly how much,go to www.ardman.net/ and click on the CH #,after doing a search.

I've got the Pro Range 75's back in the air now,after having the Triax 100's up for the last 2 months.They're both good,but the 75's have an edge on the lower UHF channels.Another thing I've learned is when stacking horzontally,the alignment and feedline length must be absolutely perfect,for best performance.

On DT-16,the best signal reading is 20deg further north than it should be.I presume the stack produces a better null on WPTD 16 at that particular heading.Also getting much better readings on DT-32.It's normally unwatchable with QRM from WLKY 32.Don't know what's going on there.


Jeff B,

I thought someone on here wanted your 4228.Maybe you should put it back in the air.You might get lucky.I had four nice tropo events last Jan.Ya' never know!

GregB

I received some updated information today about WTTV-DT, 53 from Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV. The new digital transmitter for the temporary STA (4kw.) arrived last week and they hope to have the station on the air sometime in January. Because this signal will cover only the southside of Indy, the station plans to continue carrying WTTV programming on WXIN-DT, 45-2, too.

Steve

I realize this thread is mostly about central IN, but has anybody heard ANYTHING about the status of WEVV (CBS44) in Evansville?

You may be able to pickup WVUT-DT 52 its pbs in channel 22 Vincennes.
I can pick it up here in Spencer about 65 miles from Vincennes.


Brad

Some good news for Fort Wayne area TV viewers. Yesterday I found out that WANE's owner, LIN, finally received its CP to proceed with building WANE-DT on channel 31. Originally the FCC had assigned WANE-DT on channel 4. Because Fort Wayne has always been an all UHF market, and there are virtually no VHF antennas in the market, LIN wanted to keep its DT station on UHF. It took the FCC a long time to finalize the filing, especially with having to also get Canadian approval because of Fort Wayne's proximity to the Canadian border. According to the FCC filing, the station will be cranking 1000 kw. with a directional antenna.

Also, according to the FCC, Butler's application for WTBU-DT, 44, has been approved for a CP. The information indicates the station will move its antenna from the Butler University campus tower to WXIN's tower and will have 301 kw. ERP with a directional antenna.

Steve

Interesting! The FCC's CDBS still doesn't show the CP as granted, just an extension to construct until 5/1/03. WANE's appl. is dated 10/4/02.

WTBU got their CP on 8/22/02 with expiration on 8/20/03.

WCLJ-DT 56 which is TBN 42 Bloomington/Indianapolis. But still no PBS.


Brad

I've noticed over the past several days that WHMB-DT, 16 has not been on the air.

An engineer at WTTV expects WTTV-DT, 53 (STA) to be on the air sometime before the end of the month.

Steve

Does anyone happen to know if WISH in Indianapolis will be capable of passing the 5.1 audio of the upcoming Grammy broadcast, assuming CBS makes it available to this market? Hoping Tom Weber might still be around to answer this question.

DirectorBoy,

I had the same thought this morning so I fired off this e-mail to Tom and a short time ago received the following reply:

Hi Tom,
>
>Great news yesterday about the Grammy's this year on CBS. I read one
>of your posts on AVS Forum several months ago where you said that
>WISH-DT was ready for 5.1 audio whenever CBS started feeding it. Is
>that the case for this event coming up next month?

Tom Weber's reply:

"CBS told me a year or two ago that it would be quite a while before they
could do 5.1 channel audio. They had been a very early adopter of digital
transmission to their affiliates, early enough that they had, it sounds
like, made some long-term commitments that unfortunately limit their audio
channels. Maybe they'll surprise us with something innovative on a
one-time basis, though. Keep your toes crossed!"

Regards,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I got no reply to this post in another thread, so here it is for you guys to comment on:

I bought my Samsung TS160 about 3 weeks ago and noticed my OTA ABC channel (WRVT-DT Indianapolis) has less than perfect picture quality. The picture looks like it is displayed on canvas, it has a "texture" to it around moving images. When the TS160 output is set to 1080i it is obvious, when set to 720p it is less obvious, and when set to 480i/p it is not very noticable. My TV is a Toshiba 50H82. I have this problem with both of WRTV's digital cannels (6-1 and 25-2). Has anyone else noticed it? It must be WRTV that is screwing up the signal. I emailed the station and haven't heard anything back. I went to a local Hi-Fi store (Ovation) and their expensive equipment showed the same problem.


Have you noticed this. If not, take a look at WRTV-DT when you get a chance.

In regards to 5.1 surround sound from CBS on WISH-DT for the upcoming Grammy Awards Show, today I received another update from Tom Weber at WISH. He stated in part:

I have some technical detail now from CBS. WISH will need to spend
>somewhere around $4000 to get this rolling. It's not an enormous amount
>of
>money, but it's unbudgeted...................
>
>Other CBS affiliates may need to spend more; WISH already has a 5.1
>channel
>Dolby encoder.
>
>We'll get the paperwork rolling in a day or two.
>
>Regards,
>
>Tom Weber
>WISH Engineering

.......Keep your fingers and toes crossed that we'll soon have another local DTV passing 5.1 surround sound.

Steve

Any talk about the new spanish channel? Will it be piggy backed on channel 8 for digital? (I am hoping not.)

In reference to MJRICHAR's question on ABC 6-1 / 25-1 in Indianapolis I just checked out Drew Carey, but it was only shown in 720p with 5.1 (per HDTVGALAXY) Since I also live in Noblesville I thought I may be of help.

How is your signal strength? The above show was locked in @ 100% and had few problems. I have had trouble in the past with erratic signal on Channel 6, only. Tonight no problem with that. I'm using a Hughes E-86, Toshiba 65", with RCA 1250 inside antenna. Real pleased with this set-up!

May have missed the post, but The Indianapolis Star had an article this week that stated WTTV & WXIN were going to build a new facility to house it's two central Indiana properties. Think this involves moving transmitting station for WTTV within one year. If so ALL Network stations for Indianapolis will be SW. Should be great for antenna reception. Presently Channel 4 is out-of-line @ mainly due south.

http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/9/015235-7359-031.html

WTTV transmitter will stay at Trafalger. If it moved to Indy, it could not deliver a city-grade signal into Bloomington, which is where ch 4 is allocated.

I noticed late last night that WHMB-DT is back on the air. From what I could tell it was off the air all week. No more watching analog signals on ch. 16 from Dayton and South Bend for my location.

rickaren,
Thanks for the info. My WRTV-DT signal is a constant 93%. Am I wrong in assuming that there is no picture quality difference between 93% and 100%? If you get it - you get it, correct. There is no "in between" with digital reception. Maybe I should adjust the antenna in order to get 100% on WRTV-DT and view the results.

What is everyone else's picture quality of WRTV-DT?

I have seen nothing but good images from channel 6. I can give you a full report after next Sunday!

With regards to my problem with WRTV-DT, I did some toying around with the setup this weekend. I switched the antenna and saw no improvement. I exchanged the TS160 for a new one and saw no improvement. I bought an E86 to test with and saw no improvement. So, that rules out everything but WRTV and my Toshiba 50H82. I don’t think it is the TV because it works fine on all other channels, and all channels go to the TV as 1080i.
I noticed that the problem only appears on SD material, usually on bright red and blue objects. Please help, any more ideas of what this is?
I’ll try to take some digital pictures of it and post it.

WRTV problems: I feel I may have the best of both worlds now. I use my UTV for my DirecTV receiver with great results (all on-screen @ 16.9) and only use my E-86 for HDTV, switching TV inputs on my Toshiba 65H80 set. Others have complained of SD problems using a HD receiver as I would, too. As more and more shows are shown in HD and you can watch them live. I enjoyed both NFL Games yesterday, one on FOX not true HDTV but did have 5.1 sound plus flipped over to Golden Globe at times that was also in HD. As a back-up recorded the Golden Globe Awards, but zapped through them using the UTV. Wife enjoyed the above, too. Makes it more acceptable to spend the time and money for Home Theater when your Wife enjoys it too! May go to the new DirecTV Tivo HD recorder when avaiable since Wife does not get to view much live HDTV working strange hours @ Hospital, but will keep UTV too even if it cost $10.00 (plus $5.00). Been so happy with the UTV receiver that I will keep it till it is no longer serviced or it blows-up! Like my first RCA VCR that cost $1,000 and weighed 48 pounds. Was worth every penny since I worked nights and regular TV went off @ midnight. Now I'm showing my age.

No plans for the Spanish channel on WISH-DT - we have enough there already.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
No plans for the Spanish channel on WISH-DT - we have enough there already.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Excellent News! Great job on the HD Football boradcasts by the way!

I just noticed this evening that WTTV-DT, 53 is on the air. WTTV programming is currently on 53-2 and WXIN programming on 53-3. I've got a signal reading of 90 on my DTC100 here on the far northside of Indy.

Steve

A local TV engineer just e-mailed that WFYI-DT, 21 is on the air this afternoon testing. Apparently the station will be on and off the next few days conducting tests and if everything goes well could be on the air with programming this weekend.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the heads-up.The only thing I see right now on 21 is Ft Wayne(weak).


Check 17 ...guess I'm gonna hafta learn Spanish...Hhmmm....

GB

WFYI-DT, ch 21, has a big signal here. Currently running two streams, 20-1 with PBS-HD, 20-2 with upconverted WFYI-TV.

Talked to their Programming Dept., and they plan to run three channels, during the day, and HD after 8pm each day.

Rick Poling reports that if you've experienced a problem receiving WTTV-DT, 4-1, via digital channel 53, you should be able to tune it in. He found the problem and says that it should be fine now.

If anyone receives WFYI-DT, 21 while it is on the air testing, please post here and let us know how the signal is.

Greg, I know what you mean about Univision on WIIH, ch. 17. I'm brushing up on my Spanish and trying to learn more!

Steve

Gee, guys, you digital devotees aren't supposed to be watching (gasp!) ANALOG!

Not that the WIIH content doesn't have some things to admire <g>.

Tom Weber
Engineering
WISH/WIIH/LWS
and some of WANE/WLFI
and soon WDTN/WIVB/WNLO

Great lines, Tom. There does appear to be "some things to admire."

Your engineering responsibilities seem to be growing and growing. Will WAND, Decatur eventually be part of that list, too?

Let's hear it for Tom Weber, AVS Forum Members and HDTV Fans....Tom is in the process of ordering the last piece of equipment necessary to pass 5.1 audio from CBS!! Thanks for the good news, Tom, and thanks for your work in providing the upcoming service. Our ears thank you, too.

Steve

Are all or any of the Indy digitals at full power?

AKH

Just three are at, or near, 1,000kw on UHF: WRTV ch 25 is 898kw, WNDY ch 32 is 1,000kw directional, WTHR ch 46 is 1,000kw. Ch 9 WISH is limited to just under 20kw by proximity to ch 9 in Cincinnati.

Does anyone know if WSJV is on full power or not? I have not been able to get a workable signal from them for a long time now, yet WNDU and WSBT come in at 85-90% strength on my tuner. According to 100000watts.com, both WNDU and WSBT have a license for less power than WSJV. Also cant wait for WNIT to go online! :)

Originally posted by goldrich
Rick Poling reports that if you've experienced a problem receiving WTTV-DT, 4-1, via digital channel 53, you should be able to tune it in. He found the problem and says that it should be fine now.



Is 53 on the air 24/7? I have tried the last few evenings, and do not receive anything on it. I get WTTV via 59-2 still, though. Where is the transmitter for 53, and what power? I am on the far west side of Indy.

Thanks

Kirby Baker,

FCC Website says WSJV digital has Special Temporary Authority (STA) for 10.5 kW ERP @ 315-meters,

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WSJV

way less than digital WNDU (310 kW ERP @ 178-m) or digital WSBT (280 kW ERP STA @ 239-m).

Also, have heard that concrete for base & anchors of WNIT's new digital tower are in; steel erection probably when nice weather returns, but don't know their target date.

KBandy,

WTTV-DT, 53 signed on January 29 and as far as I know it's on 24/7. It is an STA with only 4kw. of power @ 900 feet on the WTTV-4 tower in Trafalgar. I live in Hamilton Co. just south of Carmel and with my outside antenna I'm getting a signal reading of 82-90 on my DTC100. I am 37 miles from the tower. According to Rick Poling, the stations will continue to simulcast both stations (WTTV and WXIN) via digital channels 45 and 53 for the time being. If you can't receive one of these channels you should be able to pick up the other one.

Steve

Thanks for the info, Steve. Hopefully they will continue the simulcast at least until the power is increased on 53. Do you know where the transmitter/tower is for 45? I receive it just fine. I have an outside antenna feeding my Samsung 150.

Thanks again,
Ken

Update to WFYI-DT.

For the first time, I am watching WFYI-DT (21-1 in Hi-def, 21-2 local). Signal seems to be strong (Samsung T-151 here), picture and audio quality is awesome. Great job, WFYI.

andy

I just got home from work and turned on WFYI-DT to see it for the first time, too, andyO. AndyO, are you fairly close to the WFYI tower? It is now just after 5:30 and the signal at my house (6 miles away) with an outside antenna now pointed right at the tower is quite weak....(only about 42 on the signal meter). I'm also seeing some dropouts, but the PQ in HD on 21-1 does look very good.

Since WFYI shares space in the WRTV transmitter building, Paul Roehm at WRTV sent this earlier today......

"I talked to Mike Goode (WFYI Xmtr Supervisor) and he
said that they were trying to decide what to do. The DTV is ready to go,
but they are suppposed to maintain precise frequency separation between
analog and digital, and the precise frequency controller for the ntsc
transmitter is not here yet. Interference in the N+1 configuration can be
an issue. (WISH is in the same position) He didn't know exactly when they
were going to bring it on for real, but Harris Corp. was supposed to finish
up the installation on Thursday, and starting programming only requires a
call and letter to the FCC. Hopefully soon."

p:

Paul Roehm
WRTV, Indianapolis


After reading this and seeing the low signal strength I'm speculating that they are still testing and running the transmitter at very low power. We'll see what happens over the weekend.

Steve

Steve,

My Samsung OTA tuner signal strength for WFYI-DT (21-1) is at 9 bars as most of the other local Stations except UPN-DT and WTTV-DT. I live 2 miles west of the Transmitter Tower.


Curiously, I wonder if any one watched "Smallville" on WB lately? It is not in HD on channel 45 (45-2) for at least last few weeks?


For those Comcast -HD subscribers,

NBA-HD now appears on the Channel guide, is the All star game ( Hi def) coming to Indy?

andy

Originally posted by goldrich
I just got home from work and turned on WFYI-DT to see it for the first time, too, andyO. AndyO, are you fairly close to the WFYI tower? It is now just after 5:30 and the signal at my house (6 miles away) with an outside antenna now pointed right at the tower is quite weak....(only about 42 on the signal meter). I'm also seeing some dropouts, but the PQ in HD on 21-1 does look very good.

Since WFYI shares space in the WRTV transmitter building, Paul Roehm at WRTV sent this earlier today......

"I talked to Mike Goode (WFYI Xmtr Supervisor) and he
said that they were trying to decide what to do. The DTV is ready to go,
but they are suppposed to maintain precise frequency separation between
analog and digital, and the precise frequency controller for the ntsc
transmitter is not here yet. Interference in the N+1 configuration can be
an issue. (WISH is in the same position) He didn't know exactly when they
were going to bring it on for real, but Harris Corp. was supposed to finish
up the installation on Thursday, and starting programming only requires a
call and letter to the FCC. Hopefully soon."

p:

Paul Roehm
WRTV, Indianapolis


After reading this and seeing the low signal strength I'm speculating that they are still testing and running the transmitter at very low power. We'll see what happens over the weekend.

Steve

WFYI DT-21 booming in here on the stack at a solid 68-70(DTC-100).I am noticing on the analog set adjacent channel interference w/vertical and horizontal synch bars,along with the digital snow and audible sizzle.Sometimes even an underlying trace of video and audio from Ch20.I've never seen this kind of interference on a digital channel,and simultaneously receiving a perfect digital transmission.Strange.

GB

Greg,

Comparing our signal readings of WFYI-DT on our DTC100's tonight seems rather strange to me. While the other local digitals for me are reading in the upper 80's to mid 90's, WFYI-DT is reading only 52. At the moment I'm even getting a reading of 92 from WTTV-DT, 53 (4kw. @ 37 miles) and a reading of 58 from WLFI-DT, 11, Lafayette (40 miles away and I don't have my preamp on the line tonight). At my close proximity to the antenna farm, maybe I've got some bad multipath problems with 21.

WFYI-DT is using a directional antenna and it appears that you and I are both in two of the weakest coverage directions. The antenna relative field values vary from a low of .284 @ 130 degrees, close to your direction, to a high of 1.000 @ 350 degrees.

KBandy,

The WXIN-59/WXIN-DT, 45 tower is just north of Westlane Road, near W.71st St. and Michigan Road.

Steve

A few weeks ago one of my company engineers and I had an opportunity to see the new WISH-TV master control center, thanks to Tom Weber. This center controls WISH/WISH-DT and WIIH-CA, 17, Indianapolis, WANE/eventually WANE-DT, Fort Wayne, and WLFI/WLFI-DT, Lafayette. Within a few months another control center, just like this one, will control three more LIN stations (WDTN, Dayton and WIVB/WNLO, Buffalo).

Steve

Two questions for those of you more familiar with central Indiana DTV:

Is WLFI-DT 11 at full power? At my location just NE of Indy, my STB is trying hard to lock in, but can't quite do it. I'm just using a static UHF/VHF attic antenna, but it so happens that aiming NW (toward Rossville) gives me my best overall reception of all the Indy-area stations. So pulling in WLFI would be a great bonus.

Also, is there any known status of WTTK-DT 54? Assuming all things are eventually equal between WTTV and WTTK, WTTK will be my better bet.

Thanks!

Director Boy,

As of a few weeks ago I heard from a LIN engineer that WLFI-DT was operating at full power (30 kw. @708 ft.). The station does use a directional antenna but the differences in the field values are very little, as opposed to the VERY directional antenna of analog WLFI-18. To receive this station at my location, just south of Carmel, I'm using a RS VU-160 (with the UHF portion cut off.....I'm using the CM 4228 for UHF) @ 26 ft. with a CM 7777 preamp. Depending on tropospheric conditions, sometimes it is just fine without the preamp but most of the time I need the preamp to insure a stronger and more stable signal. At 40 miles the signal is quite weak and I would think it would be very difficult to receive this station with an attic antenna.

Rick Poling, the transmitter engineer at WXIN/WTTV/WTTK mentioned recently that WTTK-DT would not be on the air until later in the year. Apparently when it does sign on it will be operating at full power as opposed to the STA for WTTV-DT, 53.

Steve

Thanks for the info, Steve. I'm on high land and am betting a pre-amp would pull in WLFI. I might give that a shot.

Sounds like WTTK will definitely be the north side's source for WB programming. Thanks to Rick Poling for piggy-backing WTTV on WXIN-DT for the time being.

WLFI-DT Ch 11, has an STA which sends about 18 kw to the SE from 702 ft. They have an application for 30 kw.

Here's an update and verification of power on WLFI-DT, thanks to Carl Booker, Engineering Supervisor. He says "we have been up and running our DTV signal at 100% power for several months now..." As for passing HD from CBS, their plan is to have it going by NCAA tournament time. Good luck with the new HD equipment, Carl, and thanks for the update.

Steve

Moving over to West-Central IN - I spoke with a WTWO engineer (NBC-Channel 2 - Terre Haute, IN) last Friday (Feb 7) and he stated that WTWO-DT will be up and running around April 1. He said they will be low power with about a 35 mile radius. Look for this on channel 36.

I live on the west side of Indy, over by the airport. I tweaked my antenna a wee bit today and am happy to report that I get the following DT channels: :D
9 - CBS 8.1-3
16 - WHMB 40.1-2
21 - PBS 20.1-2
25 - ABC 25.1-2
32 - UPN 23.1
45 - FOX 59.1
46 - NBC 13.1-2
53 - WB 59.2

Question I have is, why doesn't ABC 25.1-2 show up as 6.1-2 since all the other of the major networks convert their channels to their Analogue #?
I can understand WB using 59.2 since Fox 59 bought them but It just makes more sense to have them labeled what the Analogue signal is.
Also will they ever broadcast show info with their signal so we can see what is on via a guide?

fgr41, where are you? I am just south of Bridgeport and Morris. You've got the same line up we do. As far as why WRTV doesn't say "6" instead of 25, that is done via channel mapping software at the broadcaster. Probably either personal preference or lack of capability of the equipment is why they don't.

I'm with you on the program guides. As far as I know, the only local station that sends the guide info is WISH.

Ken

Well WLFI is making some kind of change. Their original CP was for an Andrew antenna. Their STA on 11/8/02 specifies a Dielectric antenna at a lower height. And their application for CP on 1/16/03 specifies the same Dielectric antenna with 30kw. Directional patterns on both antennas are about the same.

No big deal here. There is only about 1 db difference. Maybe they already made the changes and the paperwork hasn't caught up.

Originally posted by KBandy
fgr41, where are you? I am just south of Bridgeport and Morris. You've got the same line up we do. As far as why WRTV doesn't say "6" instead of 25, that is done via channel mapping software at the broadcaster. Probably either personal preference or lack of capability of the equipment is why they don't.

I'm with you on the program guides. As far as I know, the only local station that sends the guide info is WISH.


I'm in Avon, and have to say that the sig strength I get is impressive. I have an attic antenna and am using a amp that was left from Time Warner cable. I was worried because the cable from the antenna is not very thick gage and has a union 1/2 way on a 75 foot run that then gets put into a diplexer to combine the DTV and OTA signals, then split in back of the TV. The weakest signal I get is 85, most channels are in the high 90's.

It's great to see so many stations doing DT here. I think there is only one more station I'm waiting on and every local channel worth watching will be DT. Now if only WRTV would do channel mapping I would have nothing to whine about.

Originally posted by fgr41
It's great to see so many stations doing DT here. I think there is only one more station I'm waiting on and every local channel worth watching will be DT. Now if only WRTV would do channel mapping I would have nothing to whine about.

Yup, I guess we're fortunate to live in a "DTV Zone" or what ever Indy was designated. I have a Samsung 150 for OTA, so I don't have any signal strength numbers, but my "meter" is normally about mid-deflection. So you don't get 53 (WTTV, Trafalgar) either, I see. I guess we'll have to wait until they up their power. At least we can catch the channel 4 basketball games on 59-2.

Later,
Ken

Anyone else have problem where WFYI changes from re-mapped channel 20 to DT 21 and then screen goes black,with sound continuing?
I am in New Castle using a DISH 6000 with 8VSB. I can added DT channel 21 and it will re-map to 20 correctly and show up in the guide also. I can select it from the guide or tune to it directly. After watching it for a while it will go black and show as channel 21-1. This has happened at various different times,from two minutes to more than an hour and a half.
The receiver will lock-up for about 20 seconds. I can then channel up to 21-2 for a couple of seconds,till the banner display changes to 20-2 and go back to 20-1. Then the cycle will repeat. I have a signal strength in the high eighties. Anyone have any clues (TOM)????
Tickled to death that PBS is now on the air!!!!

Hang

I haven't watched enough of 20.1 or .2 to know. Most of the time I just check out what is on while im dial'n around.

I'll try and toon in more and see if I have any trouble.

WFYI-DT runs about 58kw toward New Castle, which is about 44 mi from the xmtr. Could you be getting a marginal signal, at times? I've never seen any remapping, but I'm only 12 mi. from the xmtr and have plenty of signal.

Just have to chime in on how ecstatic I am about having basically all my local channels in DTV. I have many other family members around the country with HD-ready sets and no local digital signals to pull down, except maybe CBS. DTV is awesome and we are really fortunate in Indy.

I'm wary of trying to diagnose problems with other stations, but you should give a ring to WFYI Engineering and let them know you're having some problems.

Some of the factors to consider: when are your problems happening - daytime (when they may be making some adjustments) or evening (less likely that they're fiddling)? What make and model receiver are you using and what version of software does it have? Do you know of any Channel 21s coming from, say, Dayton? You may be picking up a bit of signal off the back side of the antenna and thus getting some contradictory PSIP (virtual tuning) data.

We're all learning a lot, both on the station side and the viewer side!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Hey Tom, did you ever reach a conclusion on the "red saturation" or digital overdrive problem that was discussed earlier? I know on the opening of CSI (the original), when the scene cuts to a bright red, with the detective with a two way up to his mouth, there is always a break up and "stuttering" of the picture. And on just about any source with suddenly bright colors, there will be picture break up, and some times even audio drop outs, I believe.

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,

I'm still noticing the same thing on CSI. That's about the only show I watch where I notice that situation.


Open question to all: Is anyone else getting strange signal readings from WFYI-DT? Does anyone know if the station is actually operating at its full licensed power? Since I first saw the station a week ago today, I've been getting very low signal readings on my DTC100. Several times I've experienced some very wild and fluctuating signal readings. I live about 6 miles NE of the "antenna farm" and in the past I have experienced some multipath problems with various stations until I changed my outside antenna last year and added a variable attenuator to the line. All the other local stations are reading fine. At 5 p.m. this evening the signal meter was reading only 52 for channel 21, with some signal fluctuations and occasional dropouts. Meanwhile, channels 9, 16, 32 and 46 were reading 94; channels 25,45 and 53 were reading 88; and even 11 (WLFI-DT, Lafayette, without my preamp on the line right now) was reading a rock-solid 46. I'm confused as to why my signal for 21 is so low and erratic.

Steve

Steve,

I live in Spencer and all the channels I get from Indy are 88 to 92 signal but WFYI-DT doesn't come in at all. The analog channel come in fine. I would like to know my self.

Brad

Steve,

I'm still getting good readings on the DTC-47-57 even after lowering the tower from 45ft down to 30ft last night,in anticipation of the ice storm.Is both your installs still operational?Any difference? Maybe you're in a deep radiational null from their tx.

Sure wish it would warm up.I'm sick of winter!

GB

I'm not getting WFYI, UPN, or WHMB up in Kokomo tonight (antenna: UHF and a UHF/VHF in my attic, no amp, aiming almost south, no rotor; tuner:Philips DSHD800).

All my numbers seem low tonight though (because of the snow/rain?):
9-65
11-15
16-0
21-0
25-86
32-0-30-72 (all over the place)
45-72
46-93
53-0

Is WFYI-DT up 100% of the time now? Is there a schedule of what is on 20-1 and 20-2, what is in HD, etc...? I didn't find much on their website.

The 20kW power of CBS 9 explains why it has always been weak for me. Why would they choose (or be forced) to use 9 if there is another 9 so close? I always thought it might have something to do with the fact it was VHF where everything else I get (UHF) has been around 20% stronger.


BTW, I have a webpage setup for some friends/coworkers to help answer the questions they are asking me about HDTV from Indy...


IndyHD (http://www.itesla.com/indyhd/)

I'll try to get it updated this weekend with the latest info.

Originally posted by KBandy
Hey Tom, did you ever reach a conclusion on the "red saturation" or digital overdrive problem that was discussed earlier? I know on the opening of CSI (the original), when the scene cuts to a bright red, with the detective with a two way up to his mouth, there is always a break up and "stuttering" of the picture. And on just about any source with suddenly bright colors, there will be picture break up, and some times even audio drop outs, I believe.
Thanks,
Ken

Bit off-topic to this thread but is the issue I posted about in the HDTV Hardware section something like what you guys are talking about?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=226588

AKH

AKH, it sounds similar. But some of what you mention sounds like the nature of the digital beast.

I watched WFYI last night on and off for a while from 6:30 to 8:00. It changed to DT 21-1 twice. After it reset to 20-1,I turned my antenna East to Dayton/Columbus OH to see how strong WBNS on DT 21 was. I would occasionally get a whiff of WBNS. One time I got enough signal to see that they are not sending PSIP info to re-map their channel to channel 10. I don't think their signal is strong enough to effect WFYI when my antenna is pointed to the West. BTW I am using a Channel Master 3677 antenna,33' off the ground and a Channel Master 0064dsb pre-amp. My signal strength is still in the high 80s. Will keep watching a bit longer before I contact WFYI.

Bright red still causes WISH-DT to break up. A friend in Atlanta never sees it on CBS there. Those who see the CBS HD feed don't see the break up, either.

I updated the database this morning and it includes the new WTTK-DT application. Download the TVFMSTNS database into its own directory and unzip. Then run TVFMSTNS.

www.qsl.net/w9aj

Thanks guys for the feedback on WFYI-DT reception. Greg, your stacked Triax antenna array is still outside and I have tried it on WFYI-DT. Sometimes the signal is slightly better from it, but usually I have a little stronger signal from the 4228. I'm sure the current height situation is part of the factor.

Here at 5 p.m. it appears that WFYI-DT is completely off the air. I'm getting zero signal. Per the comments from WRTV engineer Paul Roehm, in an earlier post, maybe the engineers at WFYI are finalizing the installation. It will be interesting to see how the signal is when the station signs on again. Meanwhile, the snowy, windy weather today doesn't seem to be affecting DTV reception. Currently I'm getting a very strong reading of 92 from WTTV-DT, 53 at 37 miles and a stable reading of 52 from WLFI-DT at 40 miles.

Larryv, that's an interesting application for WTTK-DT, if I followed it correctly. Moving the transmitter site for WTTK-DT, 54 from Windfall to Indy and using the WXIN tower is rather surprising. About two months ago Rick Poling commented to me in an e-mail that when ch. 54 signed on I wouldn't have any trouble receiving it. Now I understand.

Steve

Same problems here with WFYI in Fishers. I was picking it up just fine a couple nights ago and now nothing. Must be the station...

Originally posted by fgr41
Question I have is, why doesn't ABC 25.1-2 show up as 6.1-2 since all the other of the major networks convert their channels to their Analogue #?

I e-mailed WRTV about this many months ago and the engineer told me that they are going to abandon channel 6 and stay on 25 once the analog channel shuts down. I think (?) it was that the FCC wants all channel 6 stations to give their bandwidth back to the FM band.

Anyone know what's up with UPN WNDYDT and why the signal strength would be so erratic? I've seen it cycle between o (unlocked) and 72.

Originally posted by kwerner
Anyone know what's up with UPN WNDYDT and why the signal strength would be so erratic? I've seen it cycle between o (unlocked) and 72.

I just flipped over and didn't get any signal in Kokomo either. Maybe snow/weather related?

WNDYDT is pretty much always like this regardless of weather from what I remember.

Originally posted by Jim_Hunt
I e-mailed WRTV about this many months ago and the engineer told me that they are going to abandon channel 6 and stay on 25 once the analog channel shuts down. I think (?) it was that the FCC wants all channel 6 stations to give their bandwidth back to the FM band.


Hmmmm that's disappointing for me... I was hoping that when WRTV moved their digital signal to ch 6 I'd have a better chance of receiving it at my location. Even tho I am on a hill with a 40' tower, I am not at the top of the hill. So there is more hill behind me (north of me) and trees. I can get signal from 25-1 but rarely enough for a lock or viewable.

That is using a combo VHF/UHF antenna with preamp and rotor. I do have an 8 bay CM UHF antenna and preamp but it is on a 25' mast and doesn't do as well as the tower antenna. Perhaps I need to get it on top of the tower.... Won't be me climbing it tho! :(

AKH

WNDY-DT is strong and stable at my location this evening. I'm 17 miles from the tower at 214 degrees. Just a reminder that the station does use a directional antenna so your reception problems could be partially related to your location. To the north/northwest, field values range from .849 @ 350 degrees all the way down to .193 @ 310 degrees. Just for fun, I plugged in the latitude and longitude readings for the WNDY tower in Strawtown and for the WIOU-Radio towers on St. Rd. 26, Kokomo to check the distance and azimuth.... www.indo.com/distance/index.html This website calculated the distance to be 21 miles @ 333 degrees. At 330 degrees, WNDY-DT's field value is .532, which should indicate around 282kw(corrected) heading that direction. Conversely, your TV antenna should be pointing SSE at about 153 degrees.

Around 11 a.m. today I noticed that WFYI-DT was on the air and then about an hour later I noticed it was off. Last I checked it was still off the air.

AKH, regarding WRTV-DT, your profile doesn't mention your location. How far are you located from the tower at 79th & Township Line Road? I'd be curious to know. Thanks.

Steve

Originally posted by goldrich
AKH, regarding WRTV-DT, your profile doesn't mention your location. How far are you located from the tower at 79th & Township Line Road? I'd be curious to know. Thanks.

Steve

I am 3 miles west of Bedford. Just off IN 450- (3 miles on HWY 450 from HWY 37 and IN 450 intersection to be more exact).

AlanH

Re: WNDY-DT
Antenna field is voltage based, not power. So a field ratio of 0.532 with 1,000kw in the main lobe, translates to 282kw at 330 deg. This is 5.5db down from the main lobe.

larryv,

Thanks for correcting my miscalculation and for the explanation. I thought it was power based....oops!! I'll edit the post.

AlanH,

That's quite a distance to Bedford. The extra height might help you. MAX HD in Greensburg has a lot of experience in that department.

Steve

Originally posted by goldrich
-snip-
AlanH,
That's quite a distance to Bedford. The extra height might help you. MAX HD in Greensburg has a lot of experience in that department.
Steve

Who is/What is MAX HD?

Antennaweb and TitanTV both think I should recieve WRTV's (25-1) digital signal.... and TTV4 (53-1, 53-2) as well . While analog 4 is fine I was under the impression that the ch 53 signal was too weak to get here. That said, it does register higher than RTV 25-1 on the meter and is SOMETIMES viewable late at night (and on those times 53-1, 53-2 have been viewable, oddly video has been rock solid with only a 37 on the meter which I don't understand)

Altho I do take both sites with a grain of salt. Antennaweb lists Terre Haute analog reception which is marginal for me yet doesn't list some Louisville stations (analog) that are fine.

Louisville ABC is not broadcasting digital @ full power. When they did ramp it up for a test and then a few days later for the Superbowl it was receivable to me BUT not perfect.... My DST3000 had a firmware upgrade since then so maybe it would be better locking in now. Dunno...

OTOH, The Lousiville CBS and NBC tests have pegged my meter and been perfect. Their tower is in Indiana so are closer to me than the city of Louisville actually is.

So it looks like in this part of Indiana... at my location.... there will be some digital holes in reception. I am crossing my fingers that with all the full power testing WAVE and WLKY are doing that they will broadcast at full power here shortly when they finally go 'live'.


I don't hold much hope for FOX reception. Unlike the other analog's from Indy (6,8,13) FOX 59 has not been viewable at all. FOX out of Louisville are doing the absolute minimum possible both in power and terms of broadcast I gather from this forum. I can't get them..sometimes the meter will blip for them but that is it.

...Still curious what the CM4228 would accomplish at the top of the tower.... or another 10' of height on the tower...

AKH

MAXHD is in Greensburg, I think.
Surprised you get anything from ch 53. It only runs 4kw and is about 40 mi. from you. 21/25/45 are about 70 mi. from Bedford. That is pushing it for the usual outside antenna. Ch 46 is about 72 mi. and ch 32 is 90 mi. Only 25, 46 and 32 are at or near max power. Ch 21 and 32 are using directional antennas which favor your direction. Only ch 25 is using a top-mounted antenna; all others have side-mounted. You should try the best UHF antennas. The higher the better, but you have a hill near you and that sometimes means stronger signals are at less that maximum height. You should consider a preamp at the antenna. You do not have strong UHF locals, so overloading is not a consideration.

Alan,

MAX HD is an AVS Forum member in Greensburg. Check some of the previous posts at this site. He has a crank-up tower which goes up to at least 45 feet. Greg has done a lot of experimenting with a number of different antennas at various heights. He, too, is pulling in Louisville stations. He might have some good reception tips for you. Usually the higher you go with the antenna the stronger your signal will be, especially at the distances you are shooting for. Good luck and keep us posted.

Steve

At 7 p.m. I see that WFYI-DT is back on the air, but I'm still getting a very weak signal (6 miles NE of the tower) with lots of dropouts.

Originally posted by goldrich
At 7 p.m. I see that WFYI-DT is back on the air, but I'm still getting a very weak signal (6 miles NE of the tower) with lots of dropouts.

WooHoo, new HD channel ! I'm getting 100% signal strength up here in Kokomo which is a great sign for the future. They are showing one of the Travels in Europe shows in HD right now too (2/18 7:45p). Looks pretty good, not quite HDnet quality level but good none the less.

It looks like they have the WFYI channel on 20.2 and HD demo loop or something on 20.1.

I just saw the feed myself and it is very nice. Am I to assume the "HD Loop" runs all the time? I hate having poeple over at odd times and no HD content to demo. This would be much welcomed if it is.

A little after 8:00 it switched to the Nova show which is on regular WFYI now. Quality isn't very good for it though. It is widescreen.

Yea, I noticed that as I flipped back from ABC Programming during the commeercial breaks. Nothing like the shots before 8 PM I saw.

Hey Kevin - did you ever give any thought to starting a Kokomo HD Users Group? Any interest?

Originally posted by goldrich
At 7 p.m. I see that WFYI-DT is back on the air, but I'm still getting a very weak signal (6 miles NE of the tower) with lots of dropouts.

Due to the nasty weather we are having lately I have the tower down to the 30ft level.DT-21 is fluctuating from 50 down to 28,with dropouts,caused more by interference from FT Wayne analog 21,than lower antenna height.It has been pretty stable at 50-55 with no drops.If I raise the tower to 50-60ft,it'll come in at 68-72,on the DTC-100.

WNDY is still totally unwatchable,with interference from WLKY-32.I did catch it when WLKY was off the air,and the signal went to high 80's and stable.

It would be interesting to know what's causing your weak signal on DT-21.Maybe a small antenna you could move around easily,like a RSDBT,would work.


Alan,
If you can get that 4228 up where the Combo is now,it should work much better,especially if you use a good preamp with it.I'm curious as to your reception of WKPC on DT-17?

Originally posted by MAX HD
-snip-
Alan,
If you can get that 4228 up where the Combo is now,it should work much better,especially if you use a good preamp with it.I'm curious as to your reception of WKPC on DT-17?

I have the CM 7777 preamp for it. Someone else also mentioned a preamp for the ant on the tower and there is a CM preamp on it (not sure which model altho it is a CM).

How are you raising and lowering your antenna? What are you using? That sounds interesting.

My recept of WKPC is nada. Don't even think I get a blip on the meter. EDIT: I just remembered... I get a fuzzy analog at 17. I think it is a lower power station out of Salem.

I'm gonna have to see where Greensburg is... I assume you get the Lousiville stations? If so look for WAVE and WLKY (DT47 and 26) to be on this Friday (so I have been told). During their tests they've been rock solid 100% on the meter.

Thanks for the info.
AlanH

Originally posted by akh
I have the CM 7777 preamp for it. Someone else also mentioned a preamp for the ant on the tower and there is a CM preamp on it (not sure which model altho it is a CM).

How are you raising and lowering your antenna? What are you using? That sounds interesting.

My recept of WKPC is nada. Don't even think I get a blip on the meter. EDIT: I just remembered... I get a fuzzy analog at 17. I think it is a lower power station out of Salem.

I'm gonna have to see where Greensburg is... I assume you get the Lousiville stations? If so look for WAVE and WLKY (DT47 and 26) to be on this Friday (so I have been told). During their tests they've been rock solid 100% on the meter.

Thanks for the info.
AlanH

The tower I use is the T-160 model.
http://www.alumatower.com/new/towers1s.html

Antennas are horizontally stacked Televes Pro Range 75's,w/Ref5006 preamp coupler.

http://www.stardubai.com/telacc_act_coupler.htm

I'm not surprised you can't get DT-17.I can rarely get it,for the same reason.I think those two towers are only 20 some miles apart.DT-55 is mostly reliable,and have locked onto DT-47 a couple times.I'm right at 70mi north of Lou.The limiting factor with receiving the Lou DT's(with the exception of 55) is [will be] co-channel interference on 26,8,47,49,17.It's gonna be a crowded mess for a long time.

Originally posted by MAX HD
The tower I use is the T-160 model.
http://www.alumatower.com/new/towers1s.html


Knowing how much aluminum trussing costs, I am afraid to ask... but.... how much are those towers?



I'm not surprised you can't get DT-17.I can rarely get it,for the same reason.I think those two towers are only 20 some miles apart.DT-55 is mostly reliable,and have locked onto DT-47 a couple times.I'm right at 70mi north of Lou.

55 is not reliable here at all. As a matter of fact, I've never had it viewable except for the two higher power tests that I know of. In that case it did have enough for a lock but just barely. 37-44 on the meter if I remember correctly. During the day of the Super Bowl (high power that day) reception did improve into the evening to where it was decent with a little pixelation and only a couple of bad breakups. That was before my DST 3000 upgraded to firmware 5099. Not sure if there were any reception tweaks in the firmware or not. (When I say 'lock' I am referring to the recever being able to display video/audio).

I do get a reading fot DT8 but never viewed. It has sometimes been high enough for a lock BUT 8-1 is mapped to Indy so I haven't bothered with DT8 (if I punch in 8-1 my receiver tunes to DT9 in Indy).

The tests at DT26 and DT47 have been my only consistent locks. I do get readings at other channels but not enough for a lock.

Cincy NBC and CBS stations have come in a few times high enough for a lock.... altho sometimes I don't even get a blip there. Also caught 50-1 (ABC viewable... might've been Dayton(?).

I can almost always get signal at DT08 (Louisville?), DT 09 (Indy), DT25 (Ind), DT46 (Indy), DT49 (Louisville), DT53 (Indy) DT55 (Louisville) and DT 56 (Indy) ... but rarely enough for a lock.

I have had all the above listed Indy channels lock in before (except 56). I'm surprised I see anything off of 53 with their power that low but I have watched 53-1 and 53-2 on a couple of different (late) nights recently... with good results even. As a matter of fact, DT53 has been my most consistent lock from Indy when I've gotten enough signal to lock. IOW... once it locked they didn't drop in and out at all. Of course the next morning the signal had fallen back. Dt25 and 53 have been my most likely stations to receive (Not counting WAVE 47 and WLKY 26).

My analog ch 4 reception is very good. Now that I think of it, best reception on ch4 (ant location) is east of the other Indy channels. Meaning the ant isn't looking directly into the hill and tress behind me like it is for the other Indy stations.

I guess the good part for me is that I am on a hill ...and the southern view is good. Eastern view is pretty good as well. The bad part is that I am not on TOP of the hill.

...So.... one of those crank up towers planted further up the hill behind the house... hmmmmmm ;)


I suppose first priority should be to get the CM 8 bay UHF ant on top of the tower I have... somehow. The higher the better.



The limiting factor with receiving the Lou DT's(with the exception of 55) is [will be] co-channel interference on 26,8,47,49,17.It's gonna be a crowded mess for a long time.

Looks like it. Any and all tips are appreciated.

AKH

"WNDY is still totally unwatchable,with interference from WLKY-32.I did catch it when WLKY was off the air,and the signal went to high 80's and stable."........quote from MAX HD in previous post.


This also could be the culprit for the viewers in Kokomo trying to watch WNDY-DT. An antenna in Kokomo would be pointed almost right at WLKY's tower at Floyds Knobs, IN. When the WLKY signal is strong in this area, due to tropospheric enhancement, it can cause very erratic signal swings as the analog signal mixes with the digital signal. Before WNDY-DT signed on a few months ago, I used to see WLKY-32 almost all the time and sometimes as strong as if it were a local station. What do you think MAX HD? A few weeks ago we chatted with the guy in Mississippi who was having the same problem during strong tropospheric conditions.

Steve

I finally got approval from the fiance to get a STB, but now I am having confilicting thoughts about going OTA or getting HDTV service from comcast. I would appreciate some feedback from people to help me in this decision. Thanks.

Originally posted by zider
I finally got approval from the fiance to get a STB, but now I am having confilicting thoughts about going OTA or getting HDTV service from comcast. I would appreciate some feedback from people to help me in this decision. Thanks.
If you're in the Indianapolis area, I think the only options on Comcast are HBO, Showtime, NBC, and CBS (maybe). Of course, HBO and Showtime are premium channels.

If you go with a STB, you get ABC (2channels), NBC(2 channels), CBS(3 channels), PBS (still in the early stages-2 channels), UPN, Fox, WB. I almost forgot WHMB (religious), has 2 channels. Maybe I'm just prejudiced because I have a STB;)

Sorry about HD last night folks. CBS sent new HD receivers to us, then immediately needed to update their software. The updating process got slightly bollixed up as I was out for two days with the flu. Things are back in shape now, and I'm awaiting the last device which will allow us to do the Grammys in 5.1 surround this Sunday.

Regards,

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber
Sorry about HD last night folks. CBS sent new HD receivers to us, then immediately needed to update their software. The updating process got slightly bollixed up as I was out for two days with the flu. Things are back in shape now, and I'm awaiting the last device which will allow us to do the Grammys in 5.1 surround this Sunday.

Regards,

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering


Tom,

Thanks for the great information. It's good to know you all are paying attention and are generous with the info we are looking for.


-mike

Can someone explain me what STB means? I know, I'm a newbie!

Is this through a satellite dish? or is it the Over the air receiver? I currently have comcast and I would like to know what my options are. Does anybody know the total amount comcast charges for adding a motorola 5100? also, can I have a regular digital box in one room and a 5100 in another one?

thanks!
Jorge

STB: Set Top Box. These are for OTA (over the air) signals. You can buy a STB that recive HD signals from both the air and sat, or one that only recieves OTA signals. I am sorry I can't really answer your Comcast question because the quote they gave me was for upgrading from analog cable. I don't currently have digital cable. I do believe that you can have the Moto 5100 in one room and a regular digital box in another. You might want to contact Comcast in reference to your pricing question. They will give you a complete quote for what you want. Hope this helps.

Hey, folks, late this afternoon I changed over to the 5.1 channel Dolby encoder box (so far using 2-channel mode). It has different delay characteristics than the 2-channel only encoder. I've approximately set the delay to about where it needs to be, but any feedback on audio/video advance/delay (lip flap) will be gratefully accepted - even more gratefully if you can specify whether your comment is on CBS HD or our upconvert (I have some ability to adjust those independently.).

I'm supposed to have the last necessary device for 5.1 surround, in the morning.

Thanks in advance and regards,

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

After complaining about their coverage of The Daytona 500 (was not shown in WS due to THEIR decision to show weather related info and they could not do both) I must have been added to WXIN FOX 59 information mailing. Thought members of this Group would find the below interesting.

Just a note to all DTV viewers:

Both WXIN-DT 45 and WTTV-DT 53 are now transmitting program guide
information. You should see guide information on 59-0, 59-1, 59-2 and/or
4-0, 4-1, and 4-2 (depending on which signal you can watch). You should
also see channel description information if you scroll over to the channel
number (at least that's how it works on an RCA receiver). There will be
guide information available for 9-12 hours into the future.

If anyone notices that the guide information is not working on their
particular receiver, feel free to reply and let me know what kind of trouble
you may be having. If you are having trouble, check to see if you have
guide information on 8-1 and 8-2; that will be an important fact to know.

Also please let me know if you now can't watch 59-1 or 59-2 (or 4-1 or 4-2),
or have lost audio or some other basic problem. As many of you know, we
work on the encoding and multiplexing equipment, strange things can happen.

Thanks for all of your help in making DTV work like it's supposed to.

Rick Poling
RF Supervisor
WTTK-TV 29
WTTV-TV WB4
WTTV-DT 53
WXIN-TV FOX 59
WXIN-DT 45

Originally posted by goldrich


This also could be the culprit for the viewers in Kokomo trying to watch WNDY-DT. An antenna in Kokomo would be pointed almost right at WLKY's tower at Floyds Knobs, IN. When the WLKY signal is strong in this area, due to tropospheric enhancement, it can cause very erratic signal swings as the analog signal mixes with the digital signal. Before WNDY-DT signed on a few months ago, I used to see WLKY-32 almost all the time and sometimes as strong as if it were a local station. What do you think MAX HD? A few weeks ago we chatted with the guy in Mississippi who was having the same problem during strong tropospheric conditions.

Steve

That's a very good possibility,and it's just as likely that Fox-32 from Chicago could be blasting in from the backside.They're closer by around 30mi,and have much higher antenna height-1500+ft.

Alan,
These towers are very handy,but costwise they're a little salty-2K-up.Bought mine used from a ham in Mobile,Al.They are popular along the coast because of the corrosion factor,and the ability to lower antenna arrays,or lay them over completely on the ground,in high winds.

I see WAVE DT-47 is coming in much better this evening-70-76 on the DTC.Strangely enough,DT-55 is almost non-existent at a solid 28.Go figure.

Originally posted by rickaren

Both WXIN-DT 45 and WTTV-DT 53 are now transmitting program guide
information. You should see guide information on 59-0, 59-1, 59-2 and/or
4-0, 4-1, and 4-2 (depending on which signal you can watch). You should
also see channel description information if you scroll over to the channel
number (at least that's how it works on an RCA receiver). There will be
guide information available for 9-12 hours into the future.

I do not have channel guied information for WISH nor WXIN or WTTV. I get 59.1-2, not 4.1-2 and am using a Sony HD100 box. Does anyone know if there are any upgrades or something I would need for my receiver to get the channel guides?

Originally posted by MAX HD


Alan,
These towers are very handy,but costwise they're a little salty-2K-up.Bought mine used from a ham in Mobile,Al.They are popular along the coast because of the corrosion factor,and the ability to lower antenna arrays,or lay them over completely on the ground,in high winds.

That's not as scary as I expected.


I see WAVE DT-47 is coming in much better this evening-70-76 on the DTC.Strangely enough,DT-55 is almost non-existent at a solid 28.Go figure.

I'm seeing lots of things popping in and out tonight. I would assume your cincy reception should be pretty good tonight. They are coming in here ...altho I am watching IU play so havent had the chance to really scan the channels.

AKH

Originally posted by rickaren
After complaining about their coverage of The Daytona 500 (was not shown in WS due to THEIR decision to show weather related info and they could not do both) I must have been added to WXIN FOX 59 information mailing. Thought members of this Group would find the below interesting.

I received a personal note from Rick a few days ago citing their need to serve the public per FCC regulations. While I didn't give him any "crap" back, I didn't think there was anything worthy on the storm during the Sunday afternoon during the race.

Originally posted by fgr41
I do not have channel guied information for WISH nor WXIN or WTTV. I get 59.1-2, not 4.1-2 and am using a Sony HD100 box. Does anyone know if there are any upgrades or something I would need for my receiver to get the channel guides?

My Toshiba didn't get any guide for 4-1 or 4-2 even tho DT53 was coming in fairly strong this evening/morning.

53-1 mapped to 4-1. 53-2 did NOT map to 4-2. Also, 53-1 and 53-2 were identical (WB4) and not WB4 and WXIN59 as I've seen before.

As far as 8-1 guide info.... I'll get that whether or not I even have an OTA ant hooked up... I'll get it via satellite (as long as my zip code is in the Toshiba).

-AKH

Below is reply and my response to WXIN (59) & WTTV (4) Survey on adding Guide Information from Rick Poling, Supervisor. Don't get confused my name is also Rick (Moore) He thinks the NASCAR Race was in HD but we know better. Thanks to Forms like AVS we know more than most of the employees that are supplying services to us, it appears. Kind of like DVR's most of us have, but no one else understands. Sad but true, but some communications are better than none.

Thanks for your response. This email got mixed results, some say everything works fine, some don't. You have pictures and sound on both 59-1 and 59-2 now, correct?

It doesn't surprise me that some receivers would have to do a new channel
scan after I changed out the multiplexer. Even though the output is
basically the same except for adding some more guide PID's.

The guide info we transmit will be the same thing that the newspaper has.
We FTP it from a source that collects guide information for places like
newspapers. I have not investigated the ability to update the information
in real time, but I'm sure it could be done, but I don't know if it's worth
the effort. Usually you would want to change this due to a shift in a live
sporting event, and I can tell that during a live sporting event the
operator isn't going to care what schedule he is transmitting.

I caught a lot of flack over the race Sunday. The viewer comments have been passed on to management.

As far as Pacers' games in HD, that's probably a long way off. As far as
NASCAR, I don't know if they have anymore planned this year or not. If they do we'll carry them.

You also mentioned 5.1 audio. FOX just began sending it to us. It takes at
least 2 more pieces of equipment to get this from the satellite receiver to
the HD switching equipment, then I'm not sure how I'm going to switch it
(too complicated to explain). So, I'm thinking about it, but I have no
guidance from management yet on when they will buy the equipment. Since we are currently designing a new studio, I hope by then we'll be 5.1.

Thanks for your input.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Moore [mailto:Rick7580@msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 8:58 PM
To: Poling, Rick
Subject: Re: WXIN/WTTV program guide information


Thanks for the info. This may be why last night @ 10 P.M. I couldn't find
59-2 due to up-dating. Gave my Wife a shocking look when watching the Pacers I switched to the HDTV receiver and on 59-02 was a black screen. I found WTTV on our Local DirecTV channel 4, just in time. That was a good game thanks to Reggie, and could have been much better if they had won.

Thanks to DVR's we watch what we want and when. Came home after the Game had started but had recorded it till only 10 P.M. then NYPD on (6) and Kingpin (fantastic in HDTV) on 13.

Have a complete "Home Theater" with Toshiba 65" HDTV, Onkyo Receiver
TX-DS898 with seven channel sound (Energy speakers). Use RCA DirecTV
DWD490RE receiver(Ultimate TV) with dual-tuner video recorder and a Hughes E-86 HDTV receiver. Great set-up but still need a HDTV recorder that may be available later this year.

Per your info I just up-dated the Hughes HDTV Receiver for OTA program guide on 59-1 and 59-2. I do now have your Guide for 59-1 WXIN, but still just show "Regular Schedule" for WTTV. Maybe it will show up in the future and no big deal @ present with the great guide info from the other receiver that has 14 days in advance and is upgraded daily. I fall back on The Star, but the down-loaded guide is usually always right to the minute.

Hope FOX gets with it and goes 1080 HDTV. Once you have it you watch
programs that in the past you may not have, due to the picture quality. I
have a Internet print-out for each week showing HDTV shows (HDTVGALAXY) and use it for programming viewing. Needless to say FOX is not shown but CBS, NBC, WB (not shown here yet in 1080?) and ABC with 720p). Also HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, HDNET & Discovery-HD, but again no FOX!

Was a poor decision not to show ALL of the Daytona 500 in WS due to the
weather. It was in DD5.1 wasn't it?

Do get to watch the Pacers play the Nicks on Tuesday April 15th on DirecTV
(198) in HDTV thanks to NBATV!!! Did get All-Stars Games and Knicks and
Lakers in HDTV this past Sunday, and again it was fantastic.

Any chance that someday a NASCAR Race or Pacer Game could be viewed from WTTV or WXIN?

Again, thanks for the up-date.

CSI got off to an ugly start at my house. The switched to the HD feed after Survivor brought an exceptionally loud static sound. There were lots of pixelization issues with the opening scenes and opening credits. The sound did corrected itself but there have been lots of drop outs. I hope the next 55 minutes go better.

I believe the sound went back to normal cause they switched off of the HighDef Feed. It looks like normal definition to me.

g

Yea, the HD feed was switched off. I didn't notice that as I started typing instead of watching. :rolleyes:

The "green filtered" sceens are still breaking up really bad.

Yeah I am getting breakup too.... but what else is new :rolleyes:

g

Lost the sound at the Wendy's Commerical, lost video at the SBC commercial. I am hopefull Sunday's Grammys goes way better...

I don't care if there's a performance by choirs of angels... 5.1 sound is not worth the frustration that this is causing.

T

Originally posted by Tom Weber
I don't care if there's a performance by choirs of angels... 5.1 sound is not worth the frustration that this is causing.

T

Sorry for the problems but I appreciate your efforts. Glad to see the HD feed back. We have 2 channel stereo. Still lots of break ups on the heavy filtered scenes.

Tom,

Don't be too discouraged or frustrated. It is a learning experience for all of us, and most of all, we know it will get better and better.

Looks like, "Without a Trace" is much better.

Thank you for trying.

Andy

It appears to work. I'll be in on Sunday to cable it up again. Enjoy.

See Tom, just takes a few choice curse words, and a little bit of patience inbetween the chaos of it all. thanks for the hard work. I'll toon in on sunday and enjoy your good work.

Anyone else have trouble with ER on WTHR the last few weeks? Something was up with the pixel alignment that I have never seen on any other WTHR show, for that matter any other channels.

I started to notice things such as the wheel on Wheel of Fortune seemed to be in some time delay when the picutre was drawn, I could see the picture scan from side to side. Then durring ER it seemed there were colums that were a few inches wide and a few pixels off from the adjacent colums.

Anyone else seen this? Im starting to wonder aobut my equipment.

Mits 46" HDTV
Sony SAT-HD100 receiver
Attac OTA with amp

A friend of mine was just asking if I had noticed some weird problems with ER the past 2-3 weeks. I haven't watched it but your comments seem to confirm what he said. The non-HD sitcoms were okay but once ER started it was not looking good.

I'm here and ready for this to go well - keep your toes crossed <g>! One thing that didn't get done because of insufficient testing time is switching - so don't look for audio on the local commercial breaks. I'll switch to 5.1 during the end break of 60 Minutes, and back to 2-channel when the Grammys are over.

If the rumor's true and Simon & Garfunkle sing together, it may be better than choirs of angels for this folkie <g>!

If it appears that things don't set up right, I -may- have to reboot the encoders - so don't panic if the signal appears to disappear for about 2 minutes right at the very start. Hope I don't have to!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

My receiver is showing 5.1...

...The sound is way off from the picture. Maybe the sound is 2 seconds before the video.

Edit to add I see you are rebooting.

Still way off in sound. It seemed to be good for a few seconds after the reboot but then the video froze or cut out the the sound was lost and then when it came back, it is off...

It does sound very good and looks very good.

Edit to add No Doubt is dropping audio frequently. The stobe lights cause pixelization out the whazoo...

The audio is just ever so slightly off now since you went back to 2 channel stereo. :(

F!

Tom

Tom,

it is 2 channel stereo now?

by the way, picture quality is great, audio is great (when it does work .. 5.1 rules!)

Faith Hill - Words Escape Me

Sound going in and out and sync getting worse in 2 channel stereo.

The blue cloud scene with the Dixie Chicks cause the audio to drop completely and major picture break ups.

I had major breakups during the Nelly Songs:rolleyes:

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Nelly (with Kelly Rowland) was completely unwatchable with all kinds of break-ups with the colored scenes. These are just like the problems we are seeing when watching CSI.

Tom, I have to think this is the result of Channel 8 running 2 extra channels. I would like to see those channels go away so maybe we can have the additional bandwidth for the main CBS feed. Nobody else locally has 2 subchannels.

I dont know what is causing the breakups.. but my signal was rock solid the whole time, so I feel confident ruling out my equipment.. I hope this gets resolved.. it kind of kills the whole HD experience.. NOTE: after reading Jims post I feel confident this is a WISH problem.

Edit: I want to explain why I feel this is a wish issue. With Jim and I having issues with the Same song at the same time it cant just be coincidence. Thats all!

Tom I know you work hard to bring us the best, just wanted you to know that I appreciate your hard work, and for putting up with us who always demand more of you.

Zotz! A moral victory, in that 5.1 surround was on the air - briefly. Based on Friday's test time, there was just a little delay between audio and video - not the 2 seconds or so that we experienced tonight. I tried a couple of things, but I couldn't in good conscience keep playing around on-air with a high-profile show like this.

On Saturday I was able to work with one of my guys who was at the transmitter. He saw the breakup on high chroma at the transmitter site but before it went into the transmitter. But I have not seen the problem fairly late in the chain at the studio - so I'm down to only about 2 or 3 devices now. I have a "spare" for one of them, so we'll keep working at diagnosing this.

Keep the faith (hill).

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

Thanks for your dedication and hard work last night. Getting the new equipment at the last minute was definitely not the ideal situation for you and your engineering crew at WISH. We know you'll have things worked out very soon.

Steve

I was just checking out the WFYI website and found this.......


<In April, once testing is complete, we will begin digital broadcasting on a full-power, 24-hr. basis. Our plan is to simulcast WFYI's analog signal 24 hrs. per day. From 8:00 pm. until midnight each night, we will broadcast HD and wide-screen SD programs.>


I just spoke to an engineer at WFYI about digital ch. 21 and he said the station is currently running at 75% of licensed power due to a problem with the station's antenna. He said that as soon as it is repaired the station will crank the power to 100%.

Steve

I am not going to be much help here, but just wanted to chime in that my signal strength on channel 9 has been hanging around 20 for the past couple of days. I still get 45,46, and 25 at 79-100%. Would any of the changes made lately effect my basic reception of channel 9? Previously, 9 was my problem channel because it flucuated enough to cause break ups, but usually the signal was in the 70's. I am located about 70-80 North of Indy and use a roof antenna with winegard pre-amp connected to a DST 3000. It is great to see direct support from an inside engineer in the forum and I was eagerly hoping to see the Grammy's in HD 5.1. When you get everything figured out, can you come up here and show the guys at WLFI how to make it work smoothly. I hear they are gearing up and should be transmitting HD in April.

We have some responsibility for WLFI (we're owned by the same company), so we'll definitely be assisting them in getting HD up and running.

Sorry it won't be till April, but some of the equipment isn't expected till then.

Interesting that your reception of 9 is significantly worse than the UHF stations - not usually what one expects. How do 8 and 13 come in?

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Originally posted by Tom Weber Interesting that your reception of 9 is significantly worse than the UHF stations - not usually what one expects. How do 8 and 13 come in?
That's what I always wondered, my UHF DTV stations are typically 90-100 and 9 is around 70 signal strength. Then I saw in some thread that WISHDT is only at 20kW where most of the other DTVs are closer to 100kW of power. Is that true?

I'm probably going to be looking at for a pre-amp soon to help with the marginal signal strength problems that seem to pop up for some reason (weather/???).

Originally posted by kwerner
That's what I always wondered, my UHF DTV stations are typically 90-100 and 9 is around 70 signal strength. Then I saw in some thread that WISHDT is only at 20kW where most of the other DTVs are closer to 100kW of power. Is that true?

I'm probably going to be looking at for a pre-amp soon to help with the marginal signal strength problems that seem to pop up for some reason (weather/???).

Generically speaking.... VHF doesn't require nearly the horsepower that UHF does for the same coverage area (as I understand it).

I don't know what the ratios are exactly but it is quite a difference from what I've seen.

Here in Bedford, IN I can SOMETIMES get WRTV DT25.... and a -bit- more likely WTTV DT53.... Rarely can I get enough signal for WISH DT 9 to be viewable tho.

-AKH

Steve,

I'am getting WFYI DT her in spencer about 80 on the meter. Fianally PBS.
Brad

Tom,

I checked the reception on analog 6,8, and 13. They all come through with a solid picture, but they are washed out with a static over haze. Not a very technical description, but I hope you get the idea. For the past few days, I can't view 8-1 at all and the signal from 9 is showing around 20. It is not always like this. I was able to watch all the playoff games in HD with only occasional freezing. Just wondered if there was a change recently that would explain this. I do have a rotor and adjusted for the highest signal, still no luck.

Brad,

Thanks for your signal report of WFYI-DT from Spencer. According to the station engineer I spoke to yesterday, I'm the only one having reception problems. While all of the other Indy DTV stations are fine, I'm still getting a very weak and erratic signal from WFYI-DT at a distance of only 6 miles.

I'm starting to think I live in the Indy DTV "black hole." About 18 months ago when I first installed my outside antenna, using the CM 4221 (4-bay bowtie), I got great results from all stations except from WXIN-DT, 45. I got absolutely no signal!! I then started experimenting with other antennas and then the signal from ch. 45 was fine. The only place I could get a steady signal from WXIN-DT with the 4221 was with the antenna sitting on the floor in my basement.

I've already tried two different antennas for WFYI-DT with no difference in the results. I'll keep experimenting. I'll let you know when I really start having fun!

Steve

As was mentioned, VHF channels typically carry farther than UHF channels, so at a distance (Bedford, or Lafayette, for 2 examples), I expect 9 to be viewable more of the time than the UHF stations, with -equivalent- power.

In the analog world, for instance, a UHF with 5 million watts should get out at least 50 miles. But a VHF 7-13 might get 55 miles with 316 thousand watts.

There are of course, about a zillion variables including transmit and receive antenna designs, terrain, co- or adjacent-channel interference, etc. etc. etc.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Oddly enough, I have never had reception issues in Kokomo with any Indiana station. Even channel 20 (21) in testing comes in strong. I just have a basic Channel Master with a preamp on my roof.

Tom,

I noticed 8-3 has been taken off the Digital Transmission. Is this permanent or temporary? I noticed that the radar did not appear to be working this past weekend. Is this because of that? or maybe is it related to the Breakup issue during high chroma scenes?

Thanks!

Greg

Regarding the UHF and VHF power issue:

(This is not meant to be a rigorous engineering explaination, but meant to help the non-techies to have an idea as to why UHF TV broadcast stuff needs so much ERP.) There are reasons other than antenna physics for higher power, like the more 'straight' and more mirror like propagation characteristics at UHF, but I assume that everyone already understands that UHF is GENERALLY more limited to line of sight than VHF.

The energy being transmitted through the air can be measured in terms equivalent to 'volts per meter.' This 'volts per meter' represents conceptually an energy density because the impedance of free space is constant. Also, the 'volts per meter' can be sensed by a given length of antenna wire, where a longer antenna can sense more voltage -- EXCEPT: when transitioning between free space and an antenna wire, the impedance match isn't always very good. If you have an antenna that senses 1volt, but the impedance is 1Mohm, then the available signal power is much lower than if the antenna impedance is somewhere between 75 and 300 ohms or so. When 'matching' is practical, some of the effects of mismatch can be mitigated, but then there are also losses and sometimes frequency response variations (not all impedance is resistive, and dealing with resistance, reactance across wide frequency ranges is fun, challenging, interesting, and best avoided!!!)

Magically, at a specific frequency, certain lengths of wire in a dipole antenna (for example) will maximize this impedance match, and provide more energy transfer at the interface. Certain wire lengths will tend to maximize the available current for a given voltage sensed at a given frequency, and this impedance is often between 50 and 300 ohms depending upon the antenna architecture. (AFAIR, the impedance of free space is about 377 ohms (120 * pi), so when you have a certain
field strength measured in volts per meter in space or air, you have a representation of power also -- IN THIS CASE.)

Some antenna lengths will maximize the transfer, and some lengths will minimize the current (therefore act poorly.) For UHF, the ideal wire lengths for a dipole antenna are very short when compared to lower frequencies. That small antenna will capture less voltage for a matched antenna, because it is just physically shorter. You can use a longer antenna, or an antenna with larger capture area (essentially a different architecture that usually has gain and directivity), but the side-effect is greater directivity, sometimes in the wrong directions.

For point to point applications, well designed antennas that have alot of directivity at UHF or higher have little disadvantage, and in fact, have significant advantages in certain cases. For 'broadcast' applications like UHF TV, the receiving antenna that has a large signal collection area will also be directional. For the transmitting antenna, the directivity is often in the VERTICAL direction (generally towards the horizon), but the practical limitations to the antenna gain are associated with the usual desire for coverage in all horizontal directions. It is likely that even with transmitting antennas with as much gain as practical, the transmitters at UHF need more power to compensate for less antenna 'efficiency' (terminology misused, but conceptually correct.)

Similar to there being practical limitations for transmitter antenna gain (e.g. you don't want to use a 2 degree dish that provides huge gain, but very constrained signal delivery region), there are also practical constraints on receiving antenna designs (e.g. you can theoretically use a VHF dipole on UHF frequencies, and it will indeed capture more signal, but the directional characteristics for that multi-wavelength dipole are suboptimal in most cases.) A better 'large capture area' antenna for UHF TV reception would likely be a Yagi, log periodic or bowtie (depending on application and installation.)

In a way, the 'antenna gain' for a UHF antenna in some cases is necessary to overcome less signal capture from the dipole (or isotopic) at that frequency. Conceptual example (but maybe not totally correct), a dipole antenna at 10MHz with 0dB gain would capture a similar strength signal as a moderate gain antenna of 16dB at 400Mhz.

Again, this is 'conceptual', but the signal capture ability of an antenna is very much influenced by its size, no matter the frequency.

A most exaggerated example might be a 'dipole' for 10GHz (it is very small), which would be nicely matched at its design frequency -- providing the typical antenna impedances that we are familiar witih. From an intuitive standpoint (and this time, intuition is correct), that 10GHz antenna, however well matched, will provide a relatively small signal output for a broadcast-type signal, when compared to a 10MHz dipole being used at the front end of a 10MHz receiver.

For UHF and higher, the ability to use 20dB gain antennas on both the transmitter and receiver, for point to point applications, allows transmitter
power to be concentrated, and the 'gain' (directivity) on the receiver side have significantly different characteristics than using 0dB gain on both transmitter and receiver side at perhaps 10MHz.

In the case of 'point to point', where BOTH antennas can be very directional and have high gain, UHF communications can be implemented with rather nice, low powers. For essentially omni-directional broadcast applications, one should expect to need higher ERPs at UHF than at VHF,
even if not in challenging propagation conditions.

John

Jim Hunt/Kokomo

You must mean you have no trouble with any Indy station. Do you get ch 56? It only runs a bit over 400w my direction from 28 miles and I have trouble getting much of a signal. This station is directional toward Bloomington. Ch 53 is fine from the same site with 10db more power.

We're having trouble with the radar right now anyway, no sense in broadcasting a non-functioning radar. And I figured I'd just assuage the concerns that the radar was causing the breakup. It's not. In the process I did discover that my "slack" bandwidth was a little low. But it's not that, either.

Another testing opportunity (?!) scheduled for roughly 5:40 pm Thursday.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom,

Thanks for the update!

Greg

Originally posted by larryv
Jim Hunt/Kokomo

You must mean you have no trouble with any Indy station. Do you get ch 56? It only runs a bit over 400w my direction from 28 miles and I have trouble getting much of a signal. This station is directional toward Bloomington. Ch 53 is fine from the same site with 10db more power.

I guess I was overstating my previous comment. I do not receive 53 or 56 nor was/am expecting to at this point. Sorry for not clarifying.

Originally posted by Tom Weber
We're having trouble with the radar right now anyway, no sense in broadcasting a non-functioning radar. And I figured I'd just assuage the concerns that the radar was causing the breakup. It's not. In the process I did discover that my "slack" bandwidth was a little low. But it's not that, either.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Thanks for working on the break-up issue and sorry for hammering you (channel 8) about haveing to many sub-channels. I did see some break ups last night watching CSI and Without a Trace and even noticed one during the M-Life commercial when the entire picture was pale light blue all over.

I noticed you seem to be switching back and forth between HD for the show and upconverted HD/widesceen for some commericals and newsbreaks. Am I correct or am just crazy?

Source of breakup has been found, but it may be a few days for a fix. We'll have to calibrate several items in a critical chain that can't be disrupted too much. But it's coming.

That wasn't a hammer - just a friendly poke in the ribs <g>. And if I hadn't looked at the issue, I wouldn't have found my "slack" was a bit too low, so I think you actually did me a service.

After all, if I didn't have people clamoring for my product, I wouldn't have a job!

Switching back and forth can be confusing. When CBS sends stuff that isn't 16:9, we do the upconversion here so that we can stretch the picture to fill 16:9 screens. But CBS, when they send 16:9 shows, still send commercials in 4:3 since they don't believe in stretching. As a result, I have to think hard about whether these things, and I supposedly know what we're doing!

Regards,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Tom, you always pass along the info we want and are looking for. I'm glad that we can help you out from time to time too.

Question I have is, where are the other networks engineers, do they pay attention to us as well?

I've seen at least 3 other stations' engineers on AVS. And remember, just look at the number of readers vs. the number of posters on a topic - there are tons of lurkers, and they may well include the people from the other stations.

Regards,
Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Ok well if that is the case, HEY WTHR IM HAVING TROUBLE WITH YOUR PICTURE QUALITY.

When I'm watching any fast movement it's like I'm back in college, the picture seems to have tracers. For instance when watching Wheel of Fortune the movement of the wheel seems to have a shadow that follows behind the wheels movement.

I don't know the correct terminology for this but it only happens, or most frequently happens on WTHR. :confused:

Anyone else have this issue?

I am seeing the exact same problems with WTHR. It is like a slow-motion-ghosting-smeared image that following moving images around. More noticeable with faster moving objects. You are not alone on this. Was wondering if it was just me. Glad you mentioned it.

On the WTHR problem, is this showing up on up-converted programming only, or on both up-converted and true network 1080? I don't really watch much WTHR-DT, so I haven't seen this problem.

Ken

I have seen this, but only on the upconverted programs... Hope that Helps!

greg

While on the subject of WTHR-DT, has anyone else noticed that during HD programming from NBC, there is a subtle but constant shifting of the tint in colors, especially flesh tones? It changes back and forth from a little too red to correct and then a little too green. I only notice this situation on this station and only during NBC HD programming.

Steve

I think the shadow is more on the upconverted show's than true HD. What ever the problem is, it is anoying and I hope that it is being looked at.

I haven't noticed the color fluctuations, however I have seen a problem lately with ER and what seems like colums of pixels being vertically shifted out of alignment.

I watch more WTHR than any of the other networks.

Originally posted by goldrich
While on the subject of WTHR-DT, has anyone else noticed that during HD programming from NBC, there is a subtle but constant shifting of the tint in colors, especially flesh tones? It changes back and forth from a little too red to correct and then a little too green. I only notice this situation on this station and only during NBC HD programming.

Steve

Yes I have noticed this as well.... What type of OTA receiver are you using ? I have a Zenith 420. I have also Noticed the Column effect on ER. This doesnt really bother me though cause the only thing I really watch on WTHR is Leno... and that is only when I can stay up that late...lol

Greg

Greg,

I'm using the RCA DTC100. I've noticed this color shifting on ch. 46 for some time now. I'm glad someone else has noticed it, too. Thanks.

Steve

Re: the WTHR color shifting --

Good, it wasn't my imagination. I know that I have seen it on my DTC100, but also probably the STR165.

The color shifting is really odd.

John

WTHR should really look into fixing the issue. It is really starting to drive me crazy. While watching the news tonight some video of a BB game just about made me sick there was so much distortion.

Anyone know someone there we can contact?

Did anyone get really bad signal loss tonight on 8.1. All of the other digital channels are in the 80-90 range but 9 is floating around 40-50.

Originally posted by fgr41
WTHR should really look into fixing the issue. It is really starting to drive me crazy. While watching the news tonight some video of a BB game just about made me sick there was so much distortion.

Anyone know someone there we can contact?

On WTHR's web site, there is a contact form that you can fill out, directing it to the department you want. I recently sent them an inquiry about their "MobileTrak" unit, and received a reply back within a couple of days.

Ken

Newbie question....how can you tell whether a digital broadcast is formatted in 1080i or 540p? I live in Indy and just hooked up an HDTV receiver but am not as impressed as I thought I'd be with the results. For example, the show Ed on NBC last night claimed to be in HDTV but it really only looked like DVD quality (nothing to sniff at...but still not the vivid quality that I was expecting for an HDTV broadcast). Anyhow, I checked the local affiliate's website and it basically just regurgitated a list of shows that NBC is offering in HDTV (including Ed)...but isn't up to the local affiliate (WTHR) whether they will actually broadcast in 1080i?

First off I have never heard of 540P. Most of the locals are not doing true 1080i, rather 720P which is then upconverted by most STB's to 1080i. If you want to see good quality HD 1080i check out 20.1 the PBS HD loop is great for seeing what it can do. Shows like ED are in better quality than standard def but I am not sure what they are really sending down.

Thanks for the info FGR (BTW...I meant to say 480p...I think 540p is what DVD is formatted in). Unfortunately, it seems that my indoor antenna isn't powerful enough to receive the PBS HD channel. I guess I'll have to look into installing an outdoor antenna. My local cable company (Insight) just started providing "HDTV" programming but I heard that it's really just DTV because Insight won't provide the necessary bandwidth to the network affiliates. Has anyone heard whether there is any truth to this?

Originally posted by fgr41
[B]First off I have never heard of 540P. Most of the locals are not doing true 1080i, rather 720P Huh? I thought everyone except ABC and Fox were broadcasting 1080i. Most of the "HD" shows I've seen on NBC look pretty fuzzy except for Leno, the 02 Olympics, and the one live NBA game NBC borrowed from HDnet. I think other NBC stuff is not very sharp because it is transferred from film or not recorded with true HD gear.

What is the native resolution of your HDTV / projector, 720p or 1080i? If 720p you are kind of having the opposite problem of what you described. If 720p (projector/flat panel), all the 1080i stuff is being converted to 720p which will cause it to not be quite as sharp. Personally I think the ATSC should have only defined one format for HD. It should have been progressive so we could eliminate the conversions, confusion, and everyone would see nearly the same HD. For cost reasons they couldn't do that though (1080i is cheaper to make).

On my 1080i Mits HDreadyTV, nothing has matched the quality of HDnet (1080i on DirecTV). With HDnet scored a 10 and old analog 480i NTSC as a 1.... Some of the CBS shows, some HBO/SHO, and PBS are close but not as good, I'd give them a 9. Because of the conversion in my tuner, ABC never looks quite as good, they're an 8 probably. A good progressive scan DVD is about a 6. The best stuff on Fox I'd give a 5, the worst stuff a 2 or 3 (some of the widescreen sports don't look good at all to me).

540p is one of the formats defined by the ATSC (540p is not HD). If you look through the HTPC forum here at AVSForum, you'll see a lot of people making PC's that will output 540p, DVD players are limited to 480p. My luck with HTPC hasn't been that good.

Newbie question....how can you tell whether a digital broadcast is formatted in 1080i or 540p? Some of the TV's/Tuners will tell you what the incoming signal is. My Philips (same as Hughes / Mitsubishi / Toshiba) set top box does not tell the input format unfortunately, it just converts everything to 1080i. My friends Mits TV with OTA HD tuner builtin does tell you the incoming format right on the screen underneath the channel.


Definitely use the feedback/email/complaint forms on the websites of all the stations. They need your input to make HDTV better. Give constructive criticism, tell them where you are, your signal strength, and what gear you have.

Kevin

Originally posted by kwerner
Huh? I thought everyone except ABC and Fox were broadcasting 1080i. Most of the "HD" shows I've seen on NBC look pretty fuzzy except for Leno, the 02 Olympics, and the one live NBA game NBC borrowed from HDnet. I think other NBC stuff is not very sharp because it is transferred from film or not recorded with true HD gear.

I believe some stations are actually doing 720P for instance ABC uses 720P instead of 1080i. Even the stations that are using 1080i most of the content is not native 1080i so they are having to upconvert it which gives you a WS picture but not the stunning quality that HDNet does. Many believe that 720P give better picture quality than 1080i. http://www.jonasjensen.com


Definitely use the feedback/email/complaint forms on the websites of all the stations. They need your input to make HDTV better. Give constructive criticism, tell them where you are, your signal strength, and what gear you have.

Kevin

Good point, let them know we are here and what we think. The more feedback they have from us the better the quality of the programming. I hope anyway

Thanks for the feedback Kevin and FGR. To answer a couple of your questions, my RPTV is a Pio SD533 (w/ native format of 1080i) and I'm using a PC HDTV tuner card (MyHD).

I'll voice my dissatisfaction with the local affiliates...but it'd carry more weight if I had evidence that their advertised "HD" programming is actually just DTV or an upconverted DTV format (if this is possible). If I just complain that the shows that I'm watching are "fuzzy" then they will probably just make the excuse that it's a hardware problem at my end or that I'm being too particular about the quality of the picture. I WANT MY HD-TV!!!

I have service through Insight Cable in Fishers, IN (Indianapolis market). I've had the HD STB for a couple of weeks now, receiving HBO-HD, SHO-HD, ABC-HD, and CBS-HD. The premium stations look incredible, but the local networks are hardly worth watching. The signal from CBS cuts out all the time, and looks just as good, if not better, while watching through the standard DTV STB. Watching "America's Funniest Videos", I notice that the studio shots of the host have a quite a bit of blur, probably from the up-conversion of the show. The videos look fine though. I've also noticed that both local stations seem to have a lot of "jitter" during news broadcasts. It's hard to describe what is going on, but it looks like the image jogs up and down on the screen very quickly whenever a bright color or pure white is displayed. It tends to give me a headache if I watch it for two long. It is most noticeable during the news broadcasts when a graphic is displayed.

Lately, we've used the HD box to watch the premium stations, but switch back to the DTV box for local stuff. Anyone else in the Indy area with Insight notice the same behavior?

Is anyone else having trouble with the subchannels on WISH-DT? I'm using a Samsung SIR-T165 HD tuner, and ever since 8-3 was added back in to the lineup several days ago, tuning to either 8-2 or 8-3 causes the tuner to reboot. On 8-2, the tuner will reboot once and then work properly. On 8-3, the tuner will reboot repeatedly and indefinitely, never displaying an image. I don't care too much about radar, but I'm concerned this problem will carry over into any NCAA multicasts that might be coming soon.

Probably my fault here. I re-added the guide info for 8-3 Radar, but didn't actually re-add the content till today. It should be better now.

Tome Weber
WISH Engineering

Hey Tom, I watched CSI-Miami last night, and realized after the :30 local break that I had not seen any color saturation break up. Looks like you got the problem resolved, or at least have it better!

Good work!

Ken

Saw no breakups during CSI: Miami last night as well. Thanks Tom!

Man I wish WTHR would be as responsive as you Tom. I sent them emails but have received nothing back from them.

They are the station I watch most and the only one I seem to be having trouble with.

Good to hear that I've got it solved. Right now I can't tell at home - my AV receiver is on the fritz - and I try not to be in my office during prime time <g>.

Finally got CBS's 5.1 signal properly thru most of the plant here - some updated software and a re-configuration did the trick. So now I can proceed on the rest of the audio re-wiring. Lip sync may be changing for the worse and the better in a while - but right now I'm having to gear up for the multicast of the basketball games, time is getting short. I'll get back to the 5.1 surround before the final games!

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

I'm a new user to the forum and was wondering for more information regarding the acquisition of WNDY 32 in Kokomo. The analog signal comes through clear as day, better than WRTV, WISH, and WTHR. But for some reason, the best I could ever get on the digital signal was color bars with WNDY in text in the early morning of this past Sunday. And even then, the signal was intermittent. I read in earlier posts about signal interference. Somebody mentioned a TV station I've never heard of before, WLKY. Where exactly are they located and what channel are they broadcasting on?

I'm not sure the exact make of my antenna, but it is good enough to acquire CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, and FOX WITHOUT a preamp (it is about 15ft long). The antenna is situated in my attic (3rd floor and NO obstacles between it and Indy except the attic wall). Since I can acquire all the digital broadcasts without signal loss, I don't think I have a need for a preamp. Am I wrong in this assumption? The TV I have is a Mitsubishi 55909 (last year's diamond model with built-in HD tuner). Unfortunately, this model doesn't give signal strength (could it be in the service menus??).

If anybody could give me some tips on how to dial-in WNDY DT 32, it would be much appreciated. BTW, that PBS demo loop (DD5.1 and all) is breathtaking.

Originally posted by Zorro524
I read in earlier posts about signal interference. Somebody mentioned a TV station I've never heard of before, WLKY. Where exactly are they located and what channel are they broadcasting on?

If anybody could give me some tips on how to dial-in WNDY DT 32, it would be much appreciated. BTW, that PBS demo loop (DD5.1 and all) is breathtaking.

WLKY is located in Louisville, KY and broadcasts their analog signal on ch 32. I don't know exactly how powerful they are but their signal seems to be fairly powerful in southern Indiana.

AKH

For those interested in WTHR and the issues that were brought up in this thread:
Thank you for your e-mail alerting me to the effect you are seeing on "Wheel
of Fortune".

I have recently added a brand new state of the art upconverter to upconvert
our regular standard definition programming to the 1080i format. This is an
amazing piece of equipment that was designed for the motion picture industry
to upconvert older theatrical releases to HD. It has a very sophisticated
video interpolation process that produces amazingly good video from a
standard definition NTSC picture and I think our upconverted video looks
great - much better than with our original upconverter.

That being said, this sophisticated box also has a lot of "hooks" built in
to tweak the SD video to make it look much better and, frankly, this box is
so new that we are still figuring our all of the functions.

I watched the upconversion of "Wheel" and noticed the same thing you
described. It is not apparent in other programming, probably because the
wheel spinning is a unique piece of video that shows this up. Anyway, I
figured out that our upconverter's recursive motion noise filter was set to
compensate for motion noise at too high a level. I brought the filter's
response and sensitivity to moving video down greatly and that seems to have
cleared up the effect you were seeing during "Wheel". Check that show out
again and I think that effect is gone.

Sincerely,
Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering and Operations
WTHR 13/WTHR-DT 13.1/13.2

Let me know if anyone sees any more trouble.

Thanks

This is speculation on my part, but according the signal reading on my STB this morning, it appears that WFYI-DT 21 is now operating at full power(?). Up until this morning I've only been getting a reading of around 48-52. Now I've got a fairly stable reading between 76 and 78. Recently a station engineer told me that the station had a problem with its new antenna and was waiting on better weather to make repairs.

FGR41, thanks for posting the WTHR reply. I'm still seeing the color shifting that was described in earlier posts and confirmed by some other viewers. I plan to e-mail Al or Steve Hicks at WTHR about it.

By the way, if there are any DXers in this room, some great tropospheric conditions a few days ago led to some brief but great reception of DTV from other cities here in the Indy area. Some other areas, like parts of Illinois, were still seeing great conditions most of yesterday, too. Even with my somewhat modest outdoor antenna system, Friday I was able to see WKRC-DT, 31 & WLWT-DT, 35 Cincinnati (102 miles), WBDT-DT, 18, Springfield/Dayton (101 miles), and WCMH-DT, 14, Columbus(164 miles). I'm sure we'll see more of this in the next few months. MAX HD, how are conditions in your area?

Steve

Hmm, what kind of conditions caused you to pick up those stations so far away? This is new info for me so I am interested in checking it out.

Thanks

fgr41,

For a complete explanation and much much more about DXing, check out this website.... www.dxfm.com I hope you enjoy it.

Steve

Steve,

Yea,I'm here.Stayed up late last nite waiting for something big to happen,but never did.Too far out on the edge,I guess.

No new DT's,but managed to log two new analogs,WMVS-10 Milwaukee,and WIWB-14 Suring,Wi.@400mi.I hope this Tr season is better than last year.

Let me know when you want to do the "project".

GregB

Anyone hearing a "pop" sound on Channel 8 when they swtich back and forth between network programing and the upconveted local programing? I receive this on both the MITS TV and the Marantz A/V Receiver.

Sounds like a dirty selector switch on a cheap stereo.

I'm hearing the same thing on my Mits 55909 and my Harman Kardon receiver.

Wish pop

The same here rca dtc100 and proceed avpII

Brad

I have called wtiu-30 pbs bloomington 3 or 4 times in the last yr about there HD and they keep saying in a few more months. Is this normal for pbs?

Thanks
Brad

Fort Wayne Update - The last major city in Indiana without DT transmissions.
WANE-TV 15/31-DT mid-May Waiting for the antenna
WPTA-TV 21/24-DT No date
WKJG-TV 33/19-DT June 1
WFWA-TV 39/40-DT No date, just as well it changes
WFFT-TV 55/36-DT mid-April

As usual subject to change.

Randy

Randy,

Thanks for the Ft. Wayne DTV update. I was recently wondering what the status was there. I had read several posts a few months ago that WFWA-DT was just about ready to sign on. Well, obviously, that station has delayed its sign on.

WKJG was Ft. Wayne's first TV station and the first TV station in the state to have its own weather radar, but it doesn't appear that it will have the first DTV station on the air.

During good tropospheric conditions in the next few months, I'll look forward to receiving and logging my first DTV from Ft. Wayne. WFFT-DT on channel 36 should be my easiest catch, or WANE-DT on channel 31 when this pathetic low-power station on ch. 31 here in Indy is off the air (which happens quite frequently).

Steve

Tom or anyone,

Will WISH TV carry the HDTV NCAA Games tommorow on the 8-1 channel ? I noticed last night that there are now 4 subchannels (Presumably for Multicasting for Thursday). Will this go back to the normal 3 channels with the HDTV feed on 8-1 for friday ? Or can you still do HDTV with 4 subs?

Really wanting to see the games in HDTV if any way possible!

Thanks!

greg

They aren't planning to show any HD games until the final four. They are supposed to be multi-casting 3 games (plus the weather) instead of doing any HD.

But right now they are showing the exact same footage of Baghdad on all three sub-channels which makes no sense. With the only game on ESPN which means we won't see regional games???? Guess I need to read the other threads in the HDTV forum and see what's going on there.

Originally posted by goldrich
Randy,

Thanks for the Ft. Wayne DTV update. I was recently wondering what the status was there. I had read several posts a few months ago that WFWA-DT was just about ready to sign on. Well, obviously, that station has delayed its sign on.

WKJG was Ft. Wayne's first TV station and the first TV station in the state to have its own weather radar, but it doesn't appear that it will have the first DTV station on the air.

During good tropospheric conditions in the next few months, I'll look forward to receiving and logging my first DTV from Ft. Wayne. WFFT-DT on channel 36 should be my easiest catch, or WANE-DT on channel 31 when this pathetic low-power station on ch. 31 here in Indy is off the air (which happens quite frequently).

Steve

Steve,

There's some strong enhancement from the south tonite.Louisville very strong.Finally nabbed WDRB DT-49(DTV#80).Hope it moves around toward Dayton.Still haven't got a hit on DT-18 yet.

Where's DT-45????????

MAX HD,

Tonight I noticed that WXIN-DT (45) and WTTV-DT (53) are both off the air. I'm guessing that Rick Poling is doing some work on the entire DTV setup since he has both transmitters off the air.

I've seen very little tropo enhancement this week. Great job on logging DTV #80! If I can log WBDT-DT, 18, Dayton, I know you'll get it soon.

Steve

A few weeks ago there were some posts about what channel WRTV-DT would eventually be using on a permanent basis. I asked WRTV engineer Paul Roehm about this and he recently replied with the following:


"I don't know that an "official" decision has been made. But, there are a
couple of issues that we have considered. The FCC has allocated no channel
6 DTV stations, and has made noise about taking 82 to 88 mhz to expand the
educational FM band. So there may not be any 6 to go back to. Several of us
have really serious doubts about whether 8vsb is going to work on low band
VHF. In one article that I read in one of the trades, the author said that
by his calculations, in real terms, that it was going to take a lot more
power than the few low band dtv's had been allocated to really make
pictures. Especially in another 9 or 10 years at the peak of the next
sunspot cycle.

Every 11 years, at the peak of the sunspot cycle, we have terrible problems
with interference from auxiliary services, other stations. During that last
cycle peak, we received interference on our precision demodulator from the
Channel 6 in Milwaukee, and the cable headend in Terre Haute received
interference from Paducah Ky.

There already seems to be some differences in coverage just based on some
experimental work that we have done, and some e-mails that I have received.
We know that the DTV transmitter provides reliable coverage at a greater
range than the analog, given a good antenna system. I have a viewer in
Monon, Indiana that can get 25 reliably, but can't get 6. And, when we were
doing some testing early on, we took a DTC-100 to the Terre Haute head end
and were able to get 25, 45, & 46 off their channel 20 antenna, but couldn't
get 9 off their channel 8 antenna.

When we built out the Digital system, we went on the air in September 1999
at our full licensed power (898kw) and we took the channel 6 antenna off the
top of the tower and replaced it with a channel 25 antenna. Then put a new
wrap-around channel 6 antenna below it.

As I said, no official decision has been made."

p:

Paul Roehm
WRTV, Indianapolis
paul_roehm@wrtv.com

Does anyone know why that WISHDT is doing a simulcast of multiple games rather than showing one in HD? I was looking forward to some of the tournament games in HD, and now we aren't getting it.

Originally posted by zider
Does anyone know why that WISHDT is doing a simulcast of multiple games rather than showing one in HD? I was looking forward to some of the tournament games in HD, and now we aren't getting it.


Zider, the answer to your question was posted last month. Here's the post with the CBS HD schedule.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/cbs/sports/news/0220ncaahdtv.htm


Steve

The war coverage has really complicated our scenarios. If CBS goes to war coverage, they move games to other networks, who want exclusivity - thus we cannot digital-only multicast, if CBS has war coverage.

We CAN offer HD if CBS has war coverage, but only one location has HD production - thus only (in this round) on Fridays and Sundays is HD even a possibility - and only if CBS has war coverage, as we'd rather multicast if allowed.

And only on odd-numbered days that have an even number of letters in their names <g>.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Thanks for the input guys.

Has anyone lost channel 4.1 and 59.1 digital. The analog channels are fine but the last few day I have lost there digital channels.

Thank
Brad

Yeah, 59.1-2 are gone. There has been no news posted as to why but others are seing the same thing. NOTING

Thanks I will keep looking.

Brad

Glad to see the disappearance of WXIN-DT isn't a problem on my end... I was planning to get in the attic tonight to check our antenna.

Here's what we witnessed: Last Monday (a week ago today), intermittent but tolerable breakups. Tuesday, they were more frequent... enough to drive us to the analog channel. Wednesday, signal was still there but completely broken up and unwatchable. Thursday, gone.

Appeared to me to be a slow death of vital components rather than a sudden power-down. Any input from Rick Poling would terrific.

Interesting review of what you saw on WXIN-DT last week, DirectorBoy. I was watching the station last Monday evening and I, too, noticed a number of intermittent breakups which are usually very rare on this station.

This morning I sent an email to Rick Poling at WXIN/WTTV inquiring about the stations being off the air. I'll be happy to post his reply.

Steve

I noticed this evening that WXIN-DT 45 and WTTV-DT 53 are back on the air. So far they appear to be fine.

Steve

CBS-HD or just CBS-DT?

"without a trace" last night was not in Hi-def, and tonight's "king of queens" is not,

wonder if the war coverage or NCAA coverage halted the HDTV transimission?---

FYI, viewers from Detroit, MI and Portland, OR (CBS stations) still getting HD- according to the AVS forum.

Wait... it looks HD now ("CSI- Miami"),

thank you.

Not sure if anyone else has made this observation, but the lip sync on WXIN-DT had always been rock-solid before they went off the air last week. Upon their return to air last night, the sync was all over the place and inconsistent. I could watch a perfect sync become more than a half-second off and back to perfect again, all in the span of a minute or two. Noticed this during Boston Public.

My fault - CBS switched HD transponders for the NCAA games and I forgot to tune back to the normal one on Monday- these receivers are not remote controlled from NY.

Tom Weber
WISH Engineering

Fort Wayne Update....It has happened. Fort Wayne WFWA-DT 40 (PBS) is on the air 40-1 HD and 40-2 DT each showing different programs this afternoon. Enjoy.

One note on Fort Wayne WFWA-DT 40, the signal is not that great, maybe I'm too close. I'm running two Blake JBX21WB antennas on 44" spacing, 38 ft. up adjusting Horizontal (Alliance HD-73) and Vertical (Yeasu G-550) angles the best I can get is 75-80% at 7 miles from the transmitter. The picture from 40-1 HD is SUPER. I may pull the Antennas and try my Televe's PRO(DAT)-75 with the MRD pre-amps with the weather getting warmer. The Quality of the Televe's is so much better and IF we have another hail storm like last week it maybe done out of necessity. My receiver is a Samsung T-151... yea, kinda' like computers already outdated next to the newer T165 that will decode analog and digital.

Thinking of our troops.

Randy

Most of the HD on Channel 20 from Indianapolis is video/music. I have seen the Trackside (?) train show a few times and the audio/video is in sync.

Tonight I caught the loop with the Azela Trail in Mobile, AL and the sync was disturbingly off. Maybe some tweaking is in order.