MPEG 4 is more efficient, but was not available for consideration at in the time frame of late '90s for inclusion in the original ATSC standards. Obviously broadcasters would support any new technology that makes sense but look at how many years it took just to get where we are. To start even planning to change all the MPEG 2 encoders and consumer gear would take years. I would not predict MPEG 4 over the air anytime real soon in the U.S.
Now that the Satellite providers are moving towards all H.264 encoding, is it possible you'd do the encoding for them and then send out the signal? Or do you have zero intentions of buying H.264 hardware encoders?

+1 . horrible audio dropouts lately (and only on WPXI!!! via D*). can't put up an antenna at current residence. annoying to say the least

For about a month now I've gotten dropouts (OTA) every minute or so on WPXI, and my antenna hasnt moved since I set it up. It was fine for a few months and one day just started dropping out. My signal strength on my various TV's and CECBs (2 of which are CM-7000's no less) jumps up and down like a frog. It's so annoying, th. a.dio sou.ds h.r.ible. :D

Of course I see/hear none of this on the analog feed. (go analog!) The sad thing is I can actually pick up WJAC quite clearly, which makes it my current NBC affiliate of choice.

Edit: Dan, I just scrolled up and saw your post. I too live in Brentwood. As I said, the broadcast OTA of WPXI was great for the longest time after I got my antenna, at 100% or close to that on my DTV and analog tv's with CECBs, but now at the same antenna position it's dropped to roughly 75% of its previous stength. I can change the position of my antenna and get the signal strength to go up a bit, and the dropouts become less frequent, but they dont go away completely, and in doing so, it kills two or three of my other channels.

For the WPXI engineer here, did you guys make any changes to broadcast strength or radiation pattern in the last month or so?

For about a month now I've gotten dropouts (OTA) every minute or so on WPXI, and my antenna hasnt moved since I set it up.

The only problem I have noticed is some microblocking that is only about 1/2" high on only parts of the image, but overall reception is fine. My set registers 8 out of 10 bars on its signal meter.

Like the previous posts, a friend of mine with DirecTV would call and ask me if I was having problems with their HD feed, and when I told him "no" he assumed I got them through DISH. After a couple of times on the phone with them, he told me he wasn't getting anywhere. So I told him the next time he calls to complain, tell them that I get it OTA and don't have the major problems he describes so it has to be in the fiber connection between 11 and DirecTV's uplink facility.

Of course I see/hear none of this on the analog feed. (go analog!) The sad thing is I can actually pick up WJAC quite clearly, which makes it my current NBC affiliate of choice.

Edit: Dan, I just scrolled up and saw your post. I too live in Brentwood.

I hope you are referring to their analog signal :D.

For the WPXI engineer here, did you guys make any changes to broadcast strength or radiation pattern in the last month or so?

Are you sure it is not a weather effect? Keep in mind by fall in western PA we get very little help receiving signals from the atmosphere.

How long have you had you current antenna rig up? If it's been less than a year you're not going to have much of a point of reference for how it handles seasonal changes.

Now that the Satellite providers are moving towards all H.264 encoding, is it possible you'd do the encoding for them and then send out the signal? Or do you have zero intentions of buying H.264 hardware encoders?

I can state to the best of my knowledge we have zero intentions of getting any H.264 encoders until such time as it makes practical sense to use them over the air.

Your question pre-supposes satellite providers could legally and technically accept an H.264 feed from us and it's not clear they could. There are pre-existing legal agreements in place which at the very least would have to be mutually re-negotiated on a per carrier basis by us.

Hope we don't get flagged for being too far off topic since this is the OTA forum. -Dave

I hope you are referring to their analog signal :D.

nope...6-1, 6-2, 6-3. Kind of odd, right? Especially since the signal strength of WJAC is only 50-60% of WPXI's. Apparently the quality of the signal is better.

Are you sure it is not a weather effect? Keep in mind by fall in western PA we get very little help receiving signals from the atmosphere.

How long have you had you current antenna rig up? If it's been less than a year you're not going to have much of a point of reference for how it handles seasonal changes.

It could very well be a seasonal effect...I've had my antenna setup for 3, maybe 4 months and as I said, the first few months it was near 100% and no dropouts in the position my antenna is in. Now its every minute or so.

If the majority of those who watch these stations OTA sees similar problems seasonally, do the stations boost their signal strength or anything to compensate?

It could very well be a seasonal effect...I've had my antenna setup for 3, maybe 4 months and as I said, the first few months it was near 100% and no dropouts in the position my antenna is in. Now its every minute or so.

Take a look at the tropospheric forecast http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

If your good days largely match the days when western PA has good tropo conditions, then it is a fair bet that the effect is weather.

Tuesday and Friday this week are predicted to be good tropo days. Friday is looking like an excellent day. If you see good reception on those days, that may be what you're up against.

If the majority of those who watch these stations OTA sees similar problems seasonally, do the stations boost their signal strength or anything to compensate?

The seasonal effect is not something the stations compensate for. Their license to cover is granted with consideration to a number of engineering documents that demonstrate their ability to serve the market area of the transmitter (approx 60 mi circle around most transmitters).

If you are having issues because the season has changed, it is a result of your location, not the transmitter. The transmitter is configured to best serve a given market area (approx 60mi radius) without causing undue interference to other transmitters.

There is one more seasonal effect to consider: leaves. Falling leaves, while generally beneficial to reception, can yield unpredictable results if the tree in question causes multipath interference. That's a highly unlikely scenario, but it's worth considering.

When I experiment with my antennas, I make a point of waiting until this time of year so I get a more honest read of what stations I can receive.

I like to shoot for testing new configurations on days when there is the least tropo effect possible. There is less moisture in the atmosphere, also, leading to less reflection off the clouds.

It's weird, but for those of us who geek out on antennas, it is one of the joys.

nope...6-1, 6-2, 6-3. Kind of odd, right?

I'll say.

Sheesh, I'm only 20-25 miles from their transmitter and can only get the signal meter on an Insignia box to bounce near the threshold for a viewable picture. Apparently my problem is I live too close to 6's transmitter :D.

Not surprisingly, NBC Universal has announced it will pull the plug on Weather Plus: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6602781.html.

Not surprisingly, NBC Universal has announced it will pull the plug on Weather Plus: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6602781.html.

And now the question arises: What will WJAC and WPXI do with their .2 channels? I like the suggestion from the article of a localized Weather Channel product.

Even if that doesn't pan out, it doesn't seem like much of a jump for the locals to just take their existing weather reports and run them in loop. In fact, that might be easier because they wouldn't have to monitor the national feed (which WJAC had a lot of issues with). I don't particularly picture either WJAC or WPXI getting rid of the sub channel.

I imagine at some point WPXI's Dave will express some sense of where they're looking to go. Dave?

Ummm...if they own a piece of itwhy not just broadcast the local version of the weather channel like one sees on cable in place of Weather Plus. Seems pretty simple to me.

Ummm...if they own a piece of it why not just broadcast the local version of the weather channel like one sees on cable in place of Weather Plus. Seems pretty simple to me.

The existing carriage contracts with the cable companies for TWC likely preclude an OTA version.

I imagine at some point WPXI's Dave will express some sense of where they're looking to go. Dave?

You talkin' to me?

I'm just a lowly engineering geek. What makes you think I know anything ?!?!?:confused:

Dave Morrison
WPXI Engineering

The existing carriage contracts with the cable companies for TWC likely preclude an OTA version.

Not to mention that most systems also have WeatherScan.

I could see the Weather Plus channels move towards a more localized service such as more updates, live radar, current conditions, etc.

Oh well...the local ABC affiliate has a weather subchannel...so maybe its time WPXI did something different. What about a movie channel? NBC shows movies in primetime from time to time, why not throw them on a channel?

Or a channel that re-airs NBC's primetime lineup 24/7? Or NBC's primetime linup from X number of years ago. reruns of seinfeld, cheers, frasier, quantum leap, etc. I know its kind of like RTN, but I wouldnt think there would be as many rights/contract issues since they were NBC shows.

Then again...I didnt know about the Weather Channel contract thing so.....

Or a channel that re-airs NBC's primetime lineup 24/7? Or NBC's primetime linup from X number of years ago. reruns of seinfeld, cheers, frasier, quantum leap, etc. I know its kind of like RTN, but I wouldnt think there would be as many rights/contract issues since they were NBC shows.

My guess is that the rights/contracts issues would be much greater than for RTN. NBC Universal could probably put something together or the stations could (but I hope they don't) put on Universal Sports like the NBC O&O stations. If it isn't good the bandwidth would be more useful for the HD signal.

You talkin' to me?

I'm just a lowly engineering geek. What makes you think I know anything ?!?!?:confused:

Dave Morrison
WPXI Engineering

Keep it simple Dave.

Like I asked for years ago but never got, how about putting your Doppler radar on 11-2? And I mean NOTHING but the radar---no forecasts, no people, no advertisements!!!

Or maybe move RTN to 11-2 (and give it a little more bandwidth, it's too pixelated), then put the radar on 11-3 (which wouldn't need very much bandwidth).

If you're going to do so, have it loop the last 3 hours so you can see the direction and movement of potential storms.

Your weather radar product that you show during the newscasts seems to be better than anything I've found on the internet.

Is that a useful thought?

You talkin' to me?

I'm just a lowly engineering geek. What makes you think I know anything ?!?!?:confused:

Dave Morrison
WPXI Engineering

Dave? We look up to you. Geez. Don't hurt us like that. It's like finding out the Wizard of Oz was as impressive as Rick Moranis.

In more seriousness, I figure at some point someone has to figure out what happens to the subchannel. Obviously NBC's gotta take the first step and tell you guys what's happening to the feed. From there I guess it is Cox's decision, right?

If you hear any rumblings that you are at liberty to share, they'd be much appreciated by all.

Oh well...the local ABC affiliate has a weather subchannel...so maybe its time WPXI did something different. What about a movie channel? NBC shows movies in primetime from time to time, why not throw them on a channel?

Or a channel that re-airs NBC's primetime lineup 24/7? Or NBC's primetime linup from X number of years ago. reruns of seinfeld, cheers, frasier, quantum leap, etc. I know its kind of like RTN, but I wouldnt think there would be as many rights/contract issues since they were NBC shows.

Then again...I didnt know about the Weather Channel contract thing so.....

I would imagine that since Cox's (the owners) stations are all fairly uniform, the decision will come down to what they decide after NBC makes a final decision about WX+ and the decision will be mirrored at WPXI, WJAC and WTOV.

I was just reading that WTOV's 9.3 channel already is a live local radar. Hmmm... Maybe I should put up a good VHF antenna for the transition.

I was just reading that WTOV's 9.3 channel already is a live local radar. Hmmm... Maybe I should put up a good VHF antenna for the transition.
Because WTOV has the weather radar rather than RTN that actually suggests that the local stations make the decision.

Has anyone been having any trouble with the WPXI & WQED? (Incl .1 .2 and .3 of each) Everything will be fine for 5,10,15,30 minutes and then just randomly the signal will start to wildly fluctuate. (Sometime even complete cut-out.) Any ideas?

I have a zenith dtt901 and DB2 in zip code 15317.
(Signal strength on the above channels is at the top of the green part of the signal meter. (What ever happening to db readings?))


Just FYI...I receive the following channels with no problem. (All of the signals for the channels below do not change very much.)
2
4
8
22
40
53

Thanks in advance,
Jared

No, I've been pretty stable on most channels lately.

Does it stay that way even after turning the tv off & on? Or does that correct it?

jared, I've had the same problems, and in fact last night/early this morning the digital braodcast of WPXI went away completely. I was showing 0% reception. Someone here stated its a seasonal effect that happens around this time of year.

jared, I've had the same problems, and in fact last night/early this morning the digital braodcast of WPXI went away completely. I was showing 0% reception. Someone here stated its a seasonal effect that happens around this time of year.

The dropouts aren't quite the actual seasonal effect. It is more the case that good reception during summer months is a seasonal effect.

With cooler days and less condensation in the fall, there are fewer clouds to provide a mirror for signals to reflect off. The net effect is that when fall arrives, signals that were marginally good enough become marginally too bad.

Unless you've had your antenna up for more than a year, it is hard to be sure what your baseline signal levels actually are.

This time of year is actually a very good time to get a good approximation.

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

This is the tropospheric forecast. Tropo effect is the most common source of medium-distance signal boosts.

Wait for a day like this coming Wed, when the forecast is very unfavorable. Then, in the afternoon, check your signals.

If you get really lucky, and it is a dry, clear, cool afternoon with no tropo, you're likely looking at your baselines signal levels. These signals represent what you can pretty much expect to receive all the time.

Meow: Thanks for the info, I will check it on Wednesday.

nwiser: Thanks for the confirmation.

z-vap: Yes, no matter what I do the signal will fluctuate or disappear. (Switching channels, power cycle the box, etc doesn't change anything.)

Talk soon,
Jared

Has anyone been having any trouble with the WPXI & WQED? (Incl .1 .2 and .3 of each)

I haven't had any problems with WPXI, but I can't speak for WQED since it only comes in here from time to time.

I'll say.

Sheesh, I'm only 20-25 miles from their transmitter and can only get the signal meter on an Insignia box to bounce near the threshold for a viewable picture. Apparently my problem is I live too close to 6's transmitter :D.
You're probably a victim of their directional antenna. If you're too close to anything it should be WWCP (8.1, 8.2) up on that mountain.

I haven't had any problems with WPXI, but I can't speak for WQED since it only comes in here from time to time.
WQED doesn't have enough antenna height to get to your area consistently.

You're probably a victim of their directional antenna. If you're too close to anything it should be WWCP (8.1, 8.2) up on that mountain.

Yes, that directional antenna is killing reception. I just thought it was odd that nwiser got WJAC-DT in Brentwood which is much farther than me. That signal must be whipping around past me like a rip current.

WJAC's tower is only a couple more miles from me than 8's, but as I've said before, WWCP is so close it will come in on the back of my antenna and it is the only one I can pick up with my WinTV USB stick's whip antenna.

WQED doesn't have enough antenna height to get to your area consistently.

It also doesn't help it is running below 1,000 kW.

I'm starting to get upset...for the second night in the past week, WPXI's digital signal has dropped out completely. It's not a weak/multipath fluctuating signal, it's no signal at all. It looks like it started around 12:30AM and its now about 2:45AM. For the past two days or so it also hasnt had the program guide data, though I dont know that its related.

I tried calling WPXI but at 1 in the morning it just goes to voicemail for people and leaving a message does no good. I cant believe theres no one there, but I wasnt given an option to speak with anyone live. If the digital transmitter did indeed shut off, I cant believe no one would notice. Do they put the station on a sort of auto-pilot or something until the morning news?

Are you sure it's not another distant signal interfering with WPXI? Down here in Virginia, I had some amazing DX around that timeframe, and I know RadSurfer was DXing around 11PM up in Erie.

- Trip

I'm starting to get upset...for the second night in the past week, WPXI's digital signal has dropped out completely. It's not a weak/multipath fluctuating signal, it's no signal at all. It looks like it started around 12:30AM and its now about 2:45AM.

We are doing some transmitter work that has been taking the digital transmitter down during the overnight hours. This work is being done to ensure a more reliable digital signal in the long haul.

Regarding the EPG, I found that the computer that provides this PSIP information was hung (among other things). I'll be working to restore this ASAP.

Dave Morrison
WPXI Engineering

We are looking at repeaters for better coverage in under-served areas with significant population. We'll try the first in Squirrel Hill/Oakland/Lawrenceville next Summer. Depending on the success of that venture we may do more. But if you look at an area like Sewickley, every station in town would have to put in a repeater for those folks to get OTA consistently.

That is great. I am in Point Breeze and the signal meter says I get your signal (though poorly), but I can never actually see an image.

That is great. I am in Point Breeze and the signal meter says I get your signal (though poorly), but I can never actually see an image.
Whether the translator reaches Point Breeze depends on where WTAE puts it and how powerful it is. The maximum for a digital translator is 15 kw (compared to 1000 kw for the big boys) but even 4 kw may be more than enough for the relatively small area that was described by Dave Kasperek.

Tropospheric Ducting!!! :D

Had a great DX night last evening (Tuesday night)...Cleveland's Channel 5 (WEWS), Channel 8 (WJW) and Channel 61 (WQHS) were booming into Penn Hills!

Dave Morrison
WPXI Engineering

Does anyone here use a CM-7000 CECB for digital OTA reception?

Anyone having trouble with Fox 53 over the last week? Could be the same effect I've seen on WPXI as far as time of year, but it seems their signal strength has dropped off dramatically over the last week.

Anyone having trouble with Fox 53 over the last week? Could be the same effect I've seen on WPXI as far as time of year, but it seems their signal strength has dropped off dramatically over the last week.

I haven't noticed any discernable difference with 53, but I noticed that my TV is now registering seven bars out of ten instead of the usual eight or nine. However, for some reason, I have not been able to pull in WPCB for about a month now.

Yes, that directional antenna is killing reception. I just thought it was odd that nwiser got WJAC-DT in Brentwood which is much farther than me. That signal must be whipping around past me like a rip current.
Maybe not around you but above you, that sounds like a beam tilt problem. WJAC didn't have to worry much about beam tilt on channel 6 because low VHF diffracts so well. UHF travels more in a straight line and a UHF TV signal can pass over those close to the tower if there's not enough downward beam tilt. Because many of WJAC's viewers are at a distance to the East and Northeast of Johnstown they want as much power with as little downward beam tilt as is practical in those directions. To the west they are very close to the DMA boundary with a sister station serving the adjacent DMA so they probably need to increase the downward beam tilt to the west. Considering they already have a maximization petition filed with the FCC they probably are aware of the problem.

So, I discovered something interesting quite by accident this week.

WPXI/NBC image quality doesn't appear (at least on Comcast) to be anywhere near what the other networks in the area offer.

You see, I'm still working on getting my living room in shape in my house so my current configuration has the couch about 2 1/2 feet from my 40 inch LCD. So, my viewing distance was much closer than normal. I was pounding through stuff on my DVR which, to my knowledge, just stores the MPEG2 stream as is and doesn't re-encode.

So, Terminator: SCC looks sharp and smooth as most Fox content does. Pushing Daisies on ABC looked quite good as well. Chuck and Heroes on NBC, dear god the macroblocking when there was any hint of motion on the screen. I don't know if this is comcast knocking down the bandwidth, a network issue, or the fact that WPXI is running two subchannels; I do know that I kinda can't wait to get my couch back a ways from the TV so it isn't so smack you in the face apparent.

My FIOS is going to be installed next week and I know Verizon passes the streams untouched so we'll see what things look like then. I do know I was rather shocked seeing how far the image quality degraded when fast motion was on the screen for those shows.

WPXI needs to drop RTN and WeatherPlus ASAP IMO. Sunday Night Football in HD always looks terrible.

WPXI needs to drop RTN and WeatherPlus ASAP IMO. Sunday Night Football in HD always looks terrible.

Um, yeah. Because that's gonna happen.

Odds are when NBC folds Weather Plus -- and presuming NBC doesn't use the feed to build locally branded versions of The Weather Channel -- 11 will likely replace it with a more barebones weather sub.

Also, to be 100% honest, Sunday Night Football's crappy quality is not entirely WPXI's fault. 1080i as a format is a choice that NBC made. It is almost universally accepted that 720p is the ideal format for sports, at least within the bandwidth constraint of using MPEG-2 in ATSC. And NBC, more than other networks, has pushed subchannels pretty hard.

So... make of that what you will.

I've also heard that the quality of NBC's HD off the satellite is worse than other networks. Hopefully the upcoming move to MPEG-4 will resolve that.

- Trip

Odds are when NBC folds Weather Plus -- and presuming NBC doesn't use the feed to build locally branded versions of The Weather Channel -- 11 will likely replace it with a more barebones weather sub.



NBC Universal has already said that they are planning on replacing Weather Plus with Universal Sports. That really concerns me if WPXI jumps onboard. The relatively static Weather Plus was one thing, another full programming network might make things even worse.

UHF travels more in a straight line and a UHF TV signal can pass over those close to the tower if there's not enough downward beam tilt.

Like I said originally, apparently I live too close to the tower.

To the west they are very close to the DMA boundary with a sister station serving the adjacent DMA so they probably need to increase the downward beam tilt to the west. Considering they already have a maximization petition filed with the FCC they probably are aware of the problem.

I had figured it being a Cox decision to force people on this side to watch 11 as opposed to 6, just as WTOV's application for a multidirectional antenna was denied to protect WWCP.

I had figured it being a Cox decision to force people on this side to watch 11 as opposed to 6, just as WTOV's application for a multidirectional antenna was denied to protect WWCP.
Actually if they wanted to force people farther west to watch WPXI they would have included more downward beam tilt in that direction (and I suspect they will) because that has the same effect as moving their "B" contour eastward but with more power reaching the ground in the immediate Johnstown area including around Latrobe. You can't really blame them for being mostly interested in viewers who are likely to shop in their area. WTOV's application was denied by the FCC although they did approve a CP for 9 kw with the top mounted antenna. WTOV (Cox) has filed a maximization petition asking for 26 kw. February and perhaps later when maximization actually takes place should be interesting.

Off topic, I am a Steeler fan, however I've gotta vent-

Note to Pittsburgh newscasts: "Black and Gold Zone," "Steelers Buzz," etc (Steelers coverage early in the newscast that is outside of the sports report) IS NOT NEWS!!! Leading a newscast that the Steelers beat the Bengels is awful. Thanks, I feel better now.

Snow in the forecast for Tuesday, and I can't wait to be hit with "team coverage" of the first few flakes. I wonder if Guy Costa will do interviews this winter...

Is anyone else experiencing the weirdness I'm seeing?

On analog there are one-for-one copies of 22 running on ch 28 and 19 running on 31? At the same time these appeared, KDKA-DT (25) became impossible to receive and WJAC got much harder to receive if the antenna was pointed toward Pittsburgh.

I didn't think much of KDKA being out, since everyone seems to be tinkering these last few weeks. But, when I saw those oddballs on analog, I began to wonder.

Also, KDKA is my second strongest station (and WJAC is my strongest).

What the hell is that all about?

Why are exact copies of WPMY and WPCW running on different channels? I don't recall them having any TXs out there.

Leading a newscast that the Steelers beat the Bengels is awful.
No, it's not awful, it's great news and unlike you many Steelers fans want to hear it at the beginning of the newscast. Just because it doesn't bleed doesn't mean it can't lead.

Is anyone else experiencing the weirdness I'm seeing?

On analog there are one-for-one copies of 22 running on ch 28 and 19 running on 31? At the same time these appeared, KDKA-DT (25) became impossible to receive and WJAC got much harder to receive if the antenna was pointed toward Pittsburgh.

I didn't think much of KDKA being out, since everyone seems to be tinkering these last few weeks. But, when I saw those oddballs on analog, I began to wonder.

Also, KDKA is my second strongest station (and WJAC is my strongest).

What the hell is that all about?

Why are exact copies of WPMY and WPCW running on different channels? I don't recall them having any TXs out there.
I am seeing this, too. I am most concerned with the dropout of Channel 2.

Since everyone is talking about NBC, i have a question about SNL's recent move to show the HD version cropped to the center on SD.

It used to be for the longest time SNL (and most other NBC HD shows) would show the show in widescreen letterbox format. And that was good.

Now SNL (i'm not sure if any other shows are) is showing the SD broadcast as a cropped down 16x9 to fit on 4x3. The problem is that the SNL show, uses the entire 16x9 are of the screen. They use it for all the titles, graphics, and even during weekend update. The effect is that words are cut off in titles, the little "news box" during weekend update (show on the upper right or upper left) is cut off.

It's unwatchable cropped like this.

Is this something WPXI is doing? Deciding to show SNL cropped? Or is this something coming down from NBC?

People are telling me other forums that this is probably the local doing this.

Maybe Dave can jump in here and let me know who is causing this, and if it is the local, can you change it back to showing widescreen with letterboxes?

You can't really blame them for being mostly interested in viewers who are likely to shop in their area.

No, but it seems directional broadcasting is becoming more frequent in the digital era. I've seen ads on 6 and 8 for businesses in eastern Westmoreland County, more so than on Pittsburgh stations, so they gain revenue from advertising in the area. Not to mention, JAC is considered a "considerably viewed" station by DirecTV for subscribers with access to the Pittsburgh stations.

WTOV's application was denied by the FCC although they did approve a CP for 9 kw with the top mounted antenna. WTOV (Cox) has filed a maximization petition asking for 26 kw. February and perhaps later when maximization actually takes place should be interesting.

It will be interesting to see how reception plays out once February 18 comes and the polar plots translate to real world conditions.

Is anyone else experiencing the weirdness I'm seeing?

On analog there are one-for-one copies of 22 running on ch 28 and 19 running on 31? At the same time these appeared, KDKA-DT (25) became impossible to receive and WJAC got much harder to receive if the antenna was pointed toward Pittsburgh.

I'm not getting anything on either of those channels; however, I remember once receiving WPGH-DT on 27.

never mind

I'm not getting anything on either of those channels; however, I remember once receiving WPGH-DT on 27.

The phenomenon disappeared around the end of the LSU game yesterday. Not that the end of the LSU game wasn't a big of an oddity itself. All was normal the rest of the night and today.

What would produce such an effect? That's the first time I've ever seen anything like that.

I am seeing this, too. I am most concerned with the dropout of Channel 2.

What is you location, dwk408?

I'm 60 mi NE of Pittsburgh in Punxsutawney.

What would produce such an effect? That's the first time I've ever seen anything like that.

I've heard DXers getting stations on channels other than the ones they are licensed on, which had either no translators or ones not on the channel received. IIRC, it was a studio-to-transmitter feed that was received.

Why is WTAE not showing the steeler-redskin game in HD?

Why is WTAE not showing the steeler-redskin game in HD?

switch flipped 2 minutes after I posted.

WTAE must have just flipped the switch, it should be in HD now (at least that's what I'm seeing OTA). But the audio is terrible! Muffled and warbly.

Oops, as I type this, now they just switched it back to SD and the audio got better. But it's not in HD any more! Hopefully they'll get this sorted out

Wait, now we're good...HD picture and audio is normal!

Wait, now we're good...HD picture and audio is normal!
Sorry guys, our master control op had automation mis-programmed -AND- failed to notice the error for..... 10 minutes?!

A lot of techs scrambled to find a problem caused by pilot error. :(

Thanks Dave! Always good to have someone on the inside working for us!

When all go to digital (All on UHF I presume) in a couple of months will the UHF broadcasting power be increased? UHF is always tougher to get than VHV, at least for me. I have two very large antennas (both on rotors on th3e roof), one VHF+UHF and the other only UHF . For me in Irwin, I have two general directions for most of the stations. Old channel 4 (4-0) on VHF has always been overly strong and antenna adjustment must be made to keep it from blowing out all else, yet on UHF, 4-1 is lousy. Unless I continually tweek the direction of each antenna, I get intermittant drop outs on 4-1 and 11-1, especially the audio which bounces between analog and digital due to reception I guess. I am kind of hoping things will be beefed up or something once VHF goes down. Anyone out there know what is going to happen? Why on earth did they go all uhf when it is so restricted to line of sight? A cable co conspiracy???

When all go to digital (All on UHF I presume) <snip>

You'll still need a high band VHF antenna after the transition. Off the top of my head, WQED, WWCP, WTOV and WTRF are moving their digital transmissions to 13, 8, 9 and 7 respectively, which are their current analog channels.

WPCW will be on 11.

- Trip

Sorry guys, our master control op had automation mis-programmed -AND- failed to notice the error for..... 10 minutes?!

A lot of techs scrambled to find a problem caused by pilot error. :(

Been there before! Like here, it's happened before and it will happen again. Too bad it was during a Steeler football game.

Dave Morrison

WPCW will be on 11.

- Trip

Something about that has been bothering me (well, not bothering me, but left me wondering.) It may be something Dave can shed some light on, but it's not really a technical question.

KDKA, WTAE, WPGH; most of the local stations brand themselves by their call letters. WPXI brands themselves heavily as "Channel 11." I know that it really doesn't matter since the channels can now be mapped as anything, but do the stations retain some sort of rights to their original channel as a mapping or can WPCW basically turn off remapping after the transition and tell WPXI "tough luck, it's our station number now"?

Something about that has been bothering me (well, not bothering me, but left me wondering.) It may be something Dave can shed some light on, but it's not really a technical question.

KDKA, WTAE, WPGH; most of the local stations brand themselves by their call letters. WPXI brands themselves heavily as "Channel 11." I know that it really doesn't matter since the channels can now be mapped as anything, but do the stations retain some sort of rights to their original channel as a mapping or can WPCW basically turn off remapping after the transition and tell WPXI "tough luck, it's our station number now"?

No the rules are stations must retain their original analog channel number, so WPXI will continue to map as 11.1, 11.2, etc., and WPCW will be 19.1, 19.2, etc. There are some exceptions, such as new stations that don't have an analog equivalent, but no such exceptions in our region.

Anyone else noticing picture quality problems with KDKA recently?

For a couple days now the news broadcasts have been quite degraded. It looks like analog is somewhere in the delivery path and distortion is being picked up. Almost like a textured translucent overlay has been applied.

Or is it just me?

No, I see the same thing.

I have my Kuro set to auto-widescreen 4:3 content and when it does for KDKA, it becomes VERY APPARENT. It's a very strange picture artifact, as if there is some kind of veil over the camera.

No, I see the same thing.

I have my Kuro set to auto-widescreen 4:3 content and when it does for KDKA, it becomes VERY APPARENT. It's a very strange picture artifact, as if there is some kind of veil over the camera.

Agreed. The 4:3 picture is terrible - also, during the CBS Evening News, I've been noticing severe dropouts in the picture. Looks like it's raining macroblocks....All other HD programming looks very good.

Agreed. The 4:3 picture is terrible - also, during the CBS Evening News, I've been noticing severe dropouts in the picture. Looks like it's raining macroblocks....All other HD programming looks very good.
Agreed again. KDKA-DT for a long time has had some of the worst looking video ever for their sports highlights during the news. They are virtually unwatchable. And now lately I too have seen the "raining macroblocks" on some programming like the CBS news. I think KD needs some equipment tweaks or upgrades.

This morning I notified KDKA of the issue via the "contact us" link on their website.

Hopefully they're as responsive as when I bitched about their gray instead of black sidebars. That one got fixed in less than a day after having sent them my rant. ;)

Wow, KDKA already responded to my feedback! If anyone else has details to add, let me know and I'll submit them to the engineer who's working on it...

Here's the additional information I've provided.
Thanks for the reply, here's some more info...

I only have a digital tuner so I can't comment on analog. So far I haven't noticed the picture quality problem on anything but the news. The primetime HD line-up seems unaffected. I don't watch much other programming so I can't comment on that either.

The degraded picture is present on four different models of ATSC tuners at my house. Also, a half dozen other people have confirmed it at their homes as well. I posted to the AVS forums asking if it was just me or if others were seeing it too. The consensus is that it is indeed a problem with the broadcast, and not the result viewer's equipment or configuration.

On a possibly unrelated note: Sports clips during the evening news are also of extremely low quality. The resolution is low, there are rainbow affects around high contrast regions, and a considerable dot crawl around letting.

I'll take screen shots tonight on a computer based ATSC tuner. These will show pixel for pixel what everyone is seeing.

I appreciate the quick response and attention to this subject!
KDKA is impressing me. While there are problems with their broadcast, they are obviously dedicated to resolving anything brought to their attention.

Even better... Here's what they had to say:
We found it. Something is wrong with either camera 2 or the upconverter for that camera. I saw exactly what you described on Stacy Smith’s face on the newscast that is on right now, but didn’t see it on Patrice’s face. We tracked it to camera 2. If you would, please let me know if you see it anywhere else, we use several of the upconverters that we use on the cameras.
Followed by another email:
By the way, I know about the news and sports shots looking bad, this is something that is in transition right now and running on temporary equipment.
Sorry for those shots, but we’ll work to improve them.

Wouldn't it be great if the whole world was this responsive to feedback?

Wouldn't it be great if the whole world was this responsive to feedback?
Yes it would, kudos to KDKA!

Yeah, the sports coverage has clearly gone through some bad analog chain. It looks really nasty even in the digital broadcast.

steelers- colts goes to SD ....


FOR THE ****KKKING LOTTERY NUMBERS


PLEASE DIE.


I will never watch a Steeler game on your network again, scumbags.

On November 17 at 6:25 PM, stations across Pennsylvania will conduct a test to determine if OTA viewers as well as cable and satellite companies are ready for February 17.

http://www.pab.org/pdfs/11172008_DTVTest.pdf

Does anyone know if the test will include non-full-power stations and repeaters?

Acquaintances in the boonies were surprised when I advised them that they may or may not see changes in february. The whole "full-power" part of the february analog shutdown has not been communicated much at all. Probably for the best. Even people in the know aren't usually aware of exactly which stations will be affected and where.

Does anyone know if the test will include non-full-power stations and repeaters?

The stations involved in the test are listed in the PDF document.

The stations involved in the test are listed in the PDF document.

But the question is about translators, which directly repeat the main signal. If the translators pick up the station's analog signal, they'll show the message. If they pick up the digital, they won't. And if they have a direct microwave... who even knows.

- Trip

Does anyone know if the test will include non-full-power stations and repeaters?

Acquaintances in the boonies were surprised when I advised them that they may or may not see changes in february. The whole "full-power" part of the february analog shutdown has not been communicated much at all. Probably for the best. Even people in the know aren't usually aware of exactly which stations will be affected and where.

As part of our DTV Outreach program I spoke to a grange in Atlantic PA last Wednesday. It's in Crawford County northeast of Greenville PA. It's also deep in the heart of Amish country. In my opening I asked how many people had cable and was promptly reminded about my location in themiddle of Amish country. There were about 20 people there. Some had satellite, but all received their local stations off antenna and EVERYONE that needed one had a coupon converter box very much to my surprise. No one wanted locked into the Erie stations. I had to spend most of my time explaing how to re-orient the antenna and rescan for channels. I know you're thinking it - there were no Amish present. The cable company would not run cable down any side street unless they could get 13 homes. When only 5 homes had electricity, that was a no sell. Less than half had internet so it was almost impossible to show them the digital channel numbers. Most were trying to dial up the analog channels to get digital.

But the question is about translators, which directly repeat the main signal. If the translators pick up the station's analog signal, they'll show the message. If they pick up the digital, they won't. And if they have a direct microwave... who even knows.

Then we won't know for sure until 6:25:01 PM next Monday :). Since the analog LPTVs don't have to convert in three months, it's probably safe to assume the message will not apply to them since they will still be fed a signal. The only full-power station in Pittsburgh I know of with a network of repeaters is WPCB.

Robert - I live in a similar Amish country area near Cochranton which is about 25 minutes away from where you were. There is no Armstrong cable on my road either because of all of the Amish houses but there are a lot of satellite dishes. Mostly Dish Network because they are the only service that has Erie local channels. I also use an outdoor antenna for off air reception of Erie, Youngstown and some Pittsburgh digital stations. It's good to have options off air from 3 markets. My only struggles are with ABC affiliates. I sometimes have a hard time getting WYTV because of their low power status and WJET because they are not at full power on DT 24 and will not be until February.

I watch the locals mainly through my d* box, and lately fox WPGH is getting audio dropouts every 30 seconds of a show. Just wondering (sure it is) a d* issue or if anyone who watches purely OTA is getting this problem as well. I'm not getting this problem with any other channels.

For God's sake, when is WPCW going to go HD? I now have two shows I watch (Smallville and Legend of the Seekers) on this channel and it's driving me crazy watching them chopped up and pixelated.

WPCW - HD? Not until the digital transition in February when they are supposed to begin broadcasting on channel 11 (which will be vacated by WPXI). I'm able to receive 21.2 from Youngstown for the CW; not HD, but not analog snow (what a way to watch a Steeler game!) either. Much easier on the eyes. With the CW's "letterboxed" shows, I can zoom the picture and, all things considered, it looks pretty good (thanks again, TV21Chief)!

If you look back through this thread (searching for WNPA as well as WPCW), you'll be able to put together the whole story on channel 19 and its (not yet on the air) digital signal.

BTW - I gather they provide an HD feed to cable (satellite?).

I watch the locals mainly through my d* box, and lately fox WPGH is getting audio dropouts every 30 seconds of a show. Just wondering (sure it is) a d* issue or if anyone who watches purely OTA is getting this problem as well. I'm not getting this problem with any other channels.

I get WPGH OTA and I haven't noticed any audio issues recently on any of the Fox shows we watch (House, Bones, Fringe, Terminator).

BTW - I gather they provide an HD feed to cable (satellite?).

They give an HD feed to Comcast and FIOS, but not any of the satellite services that I'm aware of.

Supernatural looks stunning in HD.

Supernatural looks stunning in HD.

*sigh* :rolleyes:

WNEO PBS 45 from Y'town is back on the air this morning with their digital signal. I had to do "add-on" rescans on both my main TV tuner, as well as with my converter box on another TV.

*sigh* :rolleyes:

The CW issue was one of the main reasons why I decided to order FIOS TV with the internet service instead of going with sat since two of the shows I watch (Reaper and Supernatural) are shown on there. I really wanted to go with DirecTV or Dish due to the better equipment and more HD.

However, by a happy coincidence, Verizon bumped their HD offerings up to 100 channels between the time I ordered and had it installed so I don't have any regrets now.

BTW - I gather they provide an HD feed to cable (satellite?).

Neither satellite provider offers "WPCW-HD," but it is available to Comcast systems. I rescanned the clear QAM channels on my system after they were to begin offering it, but I did not find any trace.

I know that it wasn't much of a game, but at least Ohio State and Michigan fans got to see their game (in SD) on WPTT-22 on Saturday, though the ABC broadcast was HD. I know that there's a rule somewhere that one station in each Big East market must take the "Big East Game of the Week," but often college FB fans in Pittsburgh are shortchanged when WTAE, by being under contract, has to carry this came, and forego the national ABC HD games that are more interesting (the noon Texas / Oklahoma game earlier this year comes to mind). Why can't CH-22 take these Big East games, for example? This would also be a much better use for WQEX-16.

Last night and today, without adjustments to my antenna or any changes on my side, I received a solid signal from WTAE...up until now, I have never received Channel 4...have there been some changes made that will bring it to us our here near Ligonier? I sure hope so!

Or, was it just a good reception period?

Last night and today, without adjustments to my antenna or any changes on my side, I received a solid signal from WTAE...up until now, I have never received Channel 4...have there been some changes made that will bring it to us our here near Ligonier? I sure hope so!

I noticed some drop outs on WTAE-DT last week when my set was registering 4-5/10 bars on 51, but the signal has improved somewhat since then but not by much.

Hi all,
Just joined forum. I've had the big c-band/ku band dish for a lot of years. I like it very much. Don't have the little dish or Armstrong tv channels just the internet from them. There fore I don't get the local channels. I am strongly sticking to my big dish no matter what. A couple months ago I bought a small and cheap 20.00 dollars indoor/outdoor HD antenna. I wanted to see what kind of reception I would get from pittsburgh. WTAE comes in great. This I expected and knew the other stations would be worse or not at all. This came out to be true. Only WTAE comes in. KDKA jumps up and down the scale, it and others black screen. Back in the analog days I used to get them all some real good some fair. So can anyone help me with some good knowledge. Maybe someone down here close to Brownsville. I don't live there, but lot of hills and trees between me and stations. Would a deep fringe antenna help me. Has anyone had a little success that live that far (40 to 50) miles from stations. P.S. I do have that O.T. digital box. Thanks

Hi all,
Just joined forum. I've had the big c-band/ku band dish for a lot of years. I like it very much. Don't have the little dish or Armstrong tv channels just the internet from them. There fore I don't get the local channels. I am strongly sticking to my big dish no matter what. A couple months ago I bought a small and cheap 20.00 dollars indoor/outdoor HD antenna. I wanted to see what kind of reception I would get from pittsburgh. WTAE comes in great. This I expected and knew the other stations would be worse or not at all. This came out to be true. Only WTAE comes in. KDKA jumps up and down the scale, it and others black screen. Back in the analog days I used to get them all some real good some fair. So can anyone help me with some good knowledge. Maybe someone down here close to Brownsville. I don't live there, but lot of hills and trees between me and stations. Would a deep fringe antenna help me. Has anyone had a little success that live that far (40 to 50) miles from stations. P.S. I do have that O.T. digital box. Thanks

Welcome aboard, gweedow!
First, I'm jealous that you still have a C/Ku dish! I used to have an 8-footer in the late 80's/early 90's, and the wild feeds that you could pick up were awesome! I also enjoyed getting US primetime programs at dinnertime on the Canadian Anik birds. They were starting to encode just about everything when I sold my dish in '95, so I'm curious as to what you still can get for free these days.
Dish memories aside, remember that you are currently dealing with digital UHF signals around here, so you are limited at about a 60-70 mile range IIRC. However, in February, some of the locals (what I call "local") will be going back to VHF, such as WQED, WTOV, WTRF, and I believe WWCP. So you'll need both UHF and VHF capabilities next February. Also, which set top box did you buy? I bought the Zenith DTT900 when they first came out, as online research showed that they had the most sensitive tuners. There may be better tuners out there now, so additional research may be necessary. I've also found an antenna rotor invaluable, as I need to point my antenna in different directions to pick up different channels.

Hi all,
Just joined forum. I've had the big c-band/ku band dish for a lot of years. I like it very much. Don't have the little dish or Armstrong tv channels just the internet from them. There fore I don't get the local channels. I am strongly sticking to my big dish no matter what. A couple months ago I bought a small and cheap 20.00 dollars indoor/outdoor HD antenna. I wanted to see what kind of reception I would get from pittsburgh. WTAE comes in great. This I expected and knew the other stations would be worse or not at all. This came out to be true. Only WTAE comes in. KDKA jumps up and down the scale, it and others black screen. Back in the analog days I used to get them all some real good some fair. So can anyone help me with some good knowledge. Maybe someone down here close to Brownsville. I don't live there, but lot of hills and trees between me and stations. Would a deep fringe antenna help me. Has anyone had a little success that live that far (40 to 50) miles from stations. P.S. I do have that O.T. digital box. Thanks

Go to TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29) and enter either your address or better, your GPS coords. This will generate a chart/graph set that will show you what stations you may be able to receive, and how much effort you'll need to get those signals.
In short, an outside antenna will almost certainly outperform an indoor antenna.
Good luck.

Welcome aboard, gweedow!
First, I'm jealous that you still have a C/Ku dish! I used to have an 8-footer in the late 80's/early 90's, and the wild feeds that you could pick up were awesome! I also enjoyed getting US primetime programs at dinnertime on the Canadian Anik birds. They were starting to encode just about everything when I sold my dish in '95, so I'm curious as to what you still can get for free these days.
Dish memories aside, remember that you are currently dealing with digital UHF signals around here, so you are limited at about a 60-70 mile range IIRC. However, in February, some of the locals (what I call "local") will be going back to VHF, such as WQED, WTOV, WTRF, and I believe WWCP. So you'll need both UHF and VHF capabilities next February. Also, which set top box did you buy? I bought the Zenith DTT900 when they first came out, as online research showed that they had the most sensitive tuners. There may be better tuners out there now, so additional research may be necessary. I've also found an antenna rotor invaluable, as I need to point my antenna in different directions to pick up different channels.

Thank you for the welcome.
Yes, not like the old days. Every thing is encoded seems to me. How about when we used to watch a football game with no commercial breaks, just saw the players standing around on the field. Could hear the play by play guys discussing what to say next after the commercials. I still get in the field raw news feeds. I once in a while will watch a wild feed. China is unecoded and a few unknown programs on different Sats. Few Latins.
Anyway, I will take the advice and maybe in warmer times, will check on big antennas. Oh, my digital box is a (APEX dt250) got it from Bestbuy, with one of those coupons. Remote has a signal button. Scale from 0 to 100. WTAE about a 40 or less if I remember correctly, but fine picture. All others black screen and some stations up and down scale so can't lock on. Thank you and all others. I'm also up for a better digital box if there is one for certain out there.

Just joined forum. I've had the big c-band/ku band dish for a lot of years. I like it very much. Don't have the little dish or Armstrong tv channels just the internet from them. There fore I don't get the local channels. I am strongly sticking to my big dish no matter what.

I am guessing you have a 4DTV 920 or 922 and/or a DVB receiver? I still have a 10' in the yard which I use to get wild feeds and other programming not available from Echostar.

A couple months ago I bought a small and cheap 20.00 dollars indoor/outdoor HD antenna. I wanted to see what kind of reception I would get from pittsburgh. WTAE comes in great. This I expected and knew the other stations would be worse or not at all. This came out to be true. Only WTAE comes in. KDKA jumps up and down the scale, it and others black screen. Back in the analog days I used to get them all some real good some fair. So can anyone help me with some good knowledge. Maybe someone down here close to Brownsville. I don't live there, but lot of hills and trees between me and stations. Would a deep fringe antenna help me. Has anyone had a little success that live that far (40 to 50) miles from stations.

I am about 40 miles from the Pittsburgh transmitters with hills and trees in between as well. As far as indoor antennas, my WinTV USB stick only gets WWCP-DT with its whip antenna since it is only about 20 miles away. On the other hand my outdoor VU-110 gets everything except for the stations under 1,000 kW. An outdoor antenna at the highest level you can put it is the best solution this far out.

Yes JK77 I used to have a large over the air antenna on the garage a few years ago.It Worked fine. Will go for one again soon. Right, I have a 4dtv receiver. Subscribe to all digital channels and HBO. Not bad. I plug in the digital box for over the air and the little antenna to watch the news on wtae in the kitchen. L.O.L :-) Every one else who has a Big dish (Keep BUD alive).

What the h... is FOX53 doing now. They have their station logo right in the middle of the screen at the bottom, instead of off to the side. It does a great job of blocking out all the scores, stats and meaages at the bottom of the screen. Are they nuts?

Edit: OK, five minutes after I made my post the logo disappeared altogether. Their engineer must monitor this forum.

GEEWEDOW -JK77; I too have the big dish [1982 to present] yes, keep big dish going as long as there is a signal coming to the 4dtv system! I'm in the Johnstown area,and receive OTA -HDTV from Pittsburgh Stations [all of them]... WQED is the weakest. I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna mounted on the roof,a tenna-rotor, also a must! As for lower Channels, I receive 9 out of Stubenville [analog] have interferance From channel 10 in Altoona,or I may have received that station's digital feed Also... 11 and 13 come in also in analog.So as to a big antenna with VH covered,may not be needed with the Channel Master UH antenna.This Antenna is not expensive ,$49 the last time I checked.It may have been upgrated since I bought mine.On certain days I get The Youngstown OH, FOX,CBS stations,aprox. 80 or so miles from me.

WPXI via D* horribly out of synch video/audio (.5 s+) and constant image freezes/drops during Bears-Vikes

WPXI via D* horribly out of synch video/audio (.5 s+) and constant image freezes/drops during Bears-Vikes


Dropouts are gone but image/audio synch issue persists

WPXI via D* horribly out of synch video/audio (.5 s+) and constant image freezes/drops during Bears-Vikes

I heard about this yesterday as well. I looked over-the-air and over DirecTV and didn't see this. I'm stumped. If I learn more, I'll post it.

Dave Morrison
WPXI Engineering

Dave (Morrison), you sly devil you, were you responsible to putting WeatherPlus out of its misery? WPXI-DT HD needed the bits. Even the news broadcasts were getting kind of smeary. Please kill RTN too :p.

And, Dave Kasperek, I have a question concerning WTAE-DT. Do you guys run some sort of vertical low pass filter when you receive a feed from an ESPN? I was watching the Saturday night football game and the high frequency detail was just not there. Sure the picture was quite devoid of compression artifacts, but I'd trade off picture artifacts for more perceptual vertical resolution (at regular viewing distance). Also, whenever you inject your logo into the feed, it starts to bob (and occasionally even when it is not present). Something seems very odd. Your in-studio newscasts look very sharp though! Keep up the good work and work out those kinks (that IMO exist)!

ehh...I watch RTN as much if not more than WPXI. sorry Dave.

by the way, any idea why Unreliable Sources airs at 2AM on RTN even though its time slot is supposed to be 11PM and Closing Remarks, which is supposed to be on after it, doesnt air at all?

ehh...I watch RTN as much if not more than WPXI. sorry Dave.

by the way, any idea why Unreliable Sources airs at 2AM on RTN even though its time slot is supposed to be 11PM and Closing Remarks, which is supposed to be on after it, doesnt air at all?

Glad to hear that you like RTN. I watch it quite a bit too, so I don't think that will be "killed off". With respect to Unreliable Sources and Closing Remarks, I don't know the answer to your scheduling question.

Dave

ehh...I watch RTN as much if not more than WPXI. sorry Dave.

by the way, any idea why Unreliable Sources airs at 2AM on RTN even though its time slot is supposed to be 11PM and Closing Remarks, which is supposed to be on after it, doesnt air at all?

I watch it as well. IT can't be using too much bandwidth though it is pretty blurry, which is fine with me for those old shows.

Dave,

Dont know if its been fixed yet, but for the past 4 or so days the guide data has been blank for the WPXI and subchannel feeds.

Just wanted to let you know.

Dave (Morrison), you sly devil you, were you responsible to putting WeatherPlus out of its misery? WPXI-DT HD needed the bits. Even the news broadcasts were getting kind of smeary. Please kill RTN too :p.

And, Dave Kasperek, I have a question concerning WTAE-DT. Do you guys run some sort of vertical low pass filter when you receive a feed from an ESPN? I was watching the Saturday night football game and the high frequency detail was just not there. Sure the picture was quite devoid of compression artifacts, but I'd trade off picture artifacts for more perceptual vertical resolution (at regular viewing distance). Also, whenever you inject your logo into the feed, it starts to bob (and occasionally even when it is not present). Something seems very odd. Your in-studio newscasts look very sharp though! Keep up the good work and work out those kinks (that IMO exist)!

We're not doing anything to impair the quality of the ESPN feeds . I too have noticed the college game feeds we get from them are not the same quality as what they'd feed us for a regular MNF NFL game. I presume it to be satellite transponder congestion. They have so many regional college games on at the same time it's a problem feeding them all on a finite amount of transponders. The old trick in this case is to back off the bandwidth demand per feed up to the satellite to leverage transponders for more feeds total. DK

And, Dave Kasperek, I have a question concerning WTAE-DT. Do you guys run some sort of vertical low pass filter when you receive a feed from an ESPN? I was watching the Saturday night football game and the high frequency detail was just not there. Sure the picture was quite devoid of compression artifacts, but I'd trade off picture artifacts for more perceptual vertical resolution (at regular viewing distance). Also, whenever you inject your logo into the feed, it starts to bob (and occasionally even when it is not present). Something seems very odd. Your in-studio newscasts look very sharp though! Keep up the good work and work out those kinks (that IMO exist)!Ah, glad to see I'm not the only one that's noticed some sort of issues with the converted feeds. I don't know that I've seen actual bobbing of the inserted station logo, but I've definitely previously noticed that the vertical resolution of the source seems to be signficantly reduced in the 720p->1080i conversion, almost as if the effective resolution we're getting is only around 540 at best, even for parts that should be able to maintain resolution no problem in the conversion, such as the stationary ESPN bugs, scoreboards, and the like. I originally reported noticing this on my 106" projection setup, but I've since also done some viewing on my 46" 1080p LCD TV in my bedroom and have no problem seeing this issue there either, so a large screen size isn't required for this to be apparent. ;) I've seen this in both college football and MNF games, so I don't believe the source from ESPN is at issue here.

Edit: just for jollies I tuned in WTAE-DT just now and I can see this issue no problem on Dirty Sexy Money on the ABC bug (very noticeable around the top and bottom of it) - it looks very low res vertically.

Dave,

Dont know if its been fixed yet, but for the past 4 or so days the guide data has been blank for the WPXI and subchannel feeds.

Thanks for the heads-up. It should be better now.

Dave

Thanks for the heads-up. It should be better now.

Still getting "No Title" and "No Program Information" on my set.

Well KDKA did a fine job on Sunday 11/30. I watch everything on delay (with TiVo) so just tried to watch the Unit from that night. It airs from 10 - 11 p.m., but since that was a CBS double header football game I recorded 10:00 to midnight.

Started up the recording and of course Cold Case ending was still playing. I FF thru to 10:36 and Cold Case ended and all of a sudden I was in the middle of a show from CW (KDKA'a ugly sister). That lasted until 10:42 when the screen went black for a minute, and then the Unit started, missing the first 7 minutes.

Someone must have been messing up the switches.

Well KDKA did a fine job on Sunday 11/30. I watch everything on delay (with TiVo) so just tried to watch the Unit from that night. It airs from 10 - 11 p.m., but since that was a CBS double header football game I recorded 10:00 to midnight.

Started up the recording and of course Cold Case ending was still playing. I FF thru to 10:36 and Cold Case ended and all of a sudden I was in the middle of a show from CW (KDKA'a ugly sister). That lasted until 10:42 when the screen went black for a minute, and then the Unit started, missing the first 7 minutes.

Someone must have been messing up the switches.

You can watch this online in case you want to see what you missed...

http://www.cbs.com/video/?showname=primetime/the_unit#video

You can watch this online in case you want to see what you missed...

http://www.cbs.com/video/?showname=primetime/the_unit#video

Thanks for the link. Luckily the UNIT starts out with 2 minutes of "previously", 2 minutes of intro and 3 minutes of commercials, so I didn't miss much.

I was having a strange problem with my antenna feed in that when I'd tune to 53.1 (either directly, or with channel up/down) I'd get a station identified as WPGH-HD, but the programming was KDKA-HD. I reran a channel scan and everything is OK now.

However, I just noticed that 11.2 has WPXI weather channel, but the station call letters displayed are WBAL-DT. Has it always been this way? Anyone else?

Could have posted this on the Johnstown O.T.A. section, but it may be better posted here....I live in the Richland area of Johnstown.At certain times I receive the two Youngstown stations,WFMJ and WKBN,and stay watchable for a few hours,at a signal of about 27 to 35%. this morning It was booming in at 78% I'm using a channel master 4228 ..Was this a weather ''boost' or did these stations increase their Tower Power ? The distance is aprox. 90 miles [What a great antenna on my roof ! ] P.S. Receive all Pittsburgh Channels with no problems,except the three WQED and 16... Leo

However, I just noticed that 11.2 has WPXI weather channel, but the station call letters displayed are WBAL-DT. Has it always been this way? Anyone else?

I've only seen "WX PLUS" as the calls on 11-2. At least it did when I was down in Baltimore last year, WBAL's Weather Plus channels uses "WBAL-SD."

Could have posted this on the Johnstown O.T.A. section, but it may be better posted here....I live in the Richland area of Johnstown.At certain times I receive the two Youngstown stations,WFMJ and WKBN,and stay watchable for a few hours,at a signal of about 27 to 35%. this morning It was booming in at 78% I'm using a channel master 4228 ..Was this a weather ''boost' or did these stations increase their Tower Power ?

No changes to the FCC database for either so it was tropo ducting, which isn't surprising considering the temperature fluctuations we've had the past few days.

Poor old KDKA television.

We really should feel sorry for those engineers over there at the Pittsburgh CBS O&O facility.

They can't afford new HD equiptment to compete with the other TV outlets in Pittsburgh.

They can't afford to put out an HD local newcast.

They can't afford the equiptment to run syndicated HD programming.

They can't even afford the equiptment to stay in HD during the Steelers game when they have to scroll the PA Lottery winning numbers. They are forced to switch over to standard definition to run their bottom scrolls.

We really have to feel sorry for "our" CBS outlet.

Dave,

I hate to be a pain, but the WPXI program guide data is gone again.

Poor old KDKA television.

We really should feel sorry for those engineers over there at the Pittsburgh CBS O&O facility.

They can't afford new HD equiptment to compete with the other TV outlets in Pittsburgh.

They can't afford to put out an HD local newcast.

They can't afford the equiptment to run syndicated HD programming.

They can't even afford the equiptment to stay in HD during the Steelers game when they have to scroll the PA Lottery winning numbers. They are forced to switch over to standard definition to run their bottom scrolls.

We really have to feel sorry for "our" CBS outlet.

I agree with you that switching to SD just for the lottery numbers was annoying during an exciting game. However, I think that the "switch" is similar to what we used to see on WTAE during Good Morning America, for example. GMA would be in HD, then when they'd switch over for the local weather, WTAE would crop the broadcast to SD while the weathercaster gave the local report, then switch back to HD for GMA. I do believe that KDKA is under contract to provide those lottery numbers in the Pittsburgh market, so I don't think that there's much to be said. It could have been worse -- they could have shrunk the game picture to show the drawing itself! (So give them credit for that.)

When that happened, I simply switched to WKBN to continue watching in HD. And I hope that come January 21, WTAE doesn't plan any local funny business (banners, promos, etc.) when the premiere of LOST is on!

So Dave, what's the deal with the fall finale of chuck being in SD right now? Wheel of Fortune was in HD. I really hope it kicks into HD soon or at the very least it's back in HD for the fall finale of Heroes.

I agree with you that switching to SD just for the lottery numbers was annoying during an exciting game. However, I think that the "switch" is similar to what we used to see on WTAE during Good Morning America, for example. GMA would be in HD, then when they'd switch over for the local weather, WTAE would crop the broadcast to SD while the weathercaster gave the local report, then switch back to HD for GMA. I do believe that KDKA is under contract to provide those lottery numbers in the Pittsburgh market, so I don't think that there's much to be said. It could have been worse -- they could have shrunk the game picture to show the drawing itself! (So give them credit for that.)

When that happened, I simply switched to WKBN to continue watching in HD. And I hope that come January 21, WTAE doesn't plan any local funny business (banners, promos, etc.) when the premiere of LOST is on!

I wasn't referring or commenting on KD's contractual obligations.

I was simply referring to KD's inabilities to broadcast the most enjoyable viewing experience that they can technically provide.

As for WTAE, I think they are slowly getting their act together. I have seen a distinct improvement in their picture quality.

And I hope that come January 21, WTAE doesn't plan any local funny business (banners, promos, etc.) when the premiere of LOST is on!

If they do, we complain to ABC.

ABC has made it known that they hate snipes and they forbid them on network broadcasts. If WTAE tries to pull the crap it did last year with putting bumps for local news on during lost, we can report them to ABC and they will get slapped on the wrist.

Ha, ha I sent a letter a while back to KDKA and WTAE about how sad it was that Cleveland was so far ahead in HD-News...WTAE's response was hold on were about to light it up

KDKA's was a response complaining about funding and how Clevland is such a bigger Demograhic are than Pittsburgh, what's going on there in KD land? No

Maybe 621-5808 should hold a fundraiser for KDKA, lol!

"SO much larger" ha, I do understand the cry for help though

Cleveland - #17 1,524,930, 1.332

Pittsburgh - #23 1,156,460, 1.010

Whose gonna be 1st WJAC or KDKA News in HD? My Money's on WJAC, they already finished the set.

I will say one thing though, Ghost Whisperer on KDKA comes in on 1080i with a beaut of a picture,and the 5.1 sound is as good, if not better than most!........Leo

Yeah, Big Bang Theory looked good last night too. Seems like the shows are ok,

http://www.tvpredictions.com/swannitwo121508.htm

News Feature
Swanni Predicts: NBC's Ratings Keep Falling Due to HD
The network's CEO is alienating the high-def audience.
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (December 15, 2008) -- Editor's note: Over the next few weeks, Swanni will make several predictions for HDTV in 2009. Here is his second prediction.

On some nights, if you're a NBC viewer, you might think that this High-Definition thing is a figment of someone's imagination. The network's primetime lineup is often stuffed with non-HD, reality shows such as The Biggest Loser, Deal or No Deal, Momma's Boys and Dateline. Even first-run showings of theatrical films are often broadcast in standard-def.

No other broadcast network schedules fewer shows in high-def than NBC.

This is not a coincidence. NBC Universal CEO Jeff Zucker has publicly dissed HDTV in the past, suggesting that high-def owners don't really care if a show is in HD; if they like the show, they'll probably watch whether it's in HD or SD, Zucker has said.

"It's hard to say if viewers will be less interested in unscripted programming that's not in HD when the rest of the programming is in HD," Zucker said in 2006. "I think it's a fair question, but I'm not overly concerned about it at this point."

Consequently, Zucker, the Cheapest Man in Television, he has kept network spending down by loading up the schedule with non-scripted, non-HD reality shows. And there are reports that more are coming in 2009 as the network seeks to save money during the recession.

And that's just fine with Zuck; this guy has never met a budget cut he didn't like.

Of course, the funny thing (one of the few funny things left at NBC after the glory days of Must-See TV) is that the strategy has not been successful. NBC's ratings often place it in third or fourth place every week among the four major networks.

Oddly, General Electric, which owns NBC, doesn't seem too bothered. Zucker has apparently done an effective job of persuading his bosses that he has things under control. He's more nimble than his fictional counterpart, Jack Donaghy, from NBC's 30 Rock.

But wait until next year.

According to Nielsen, one-fourth of U.S. households now watch high-def regularly; that's twice as much as a year ago and the number is rising steadily.

And Nielsen and other research firms have found that high-def owners want to watch high-def programming, not standard-def shows done on the cheap.

By alienating 25 percent of the audience -- an audience that could hit one-third before the end of 2009 -- Zucker is guaranteeing that NBC's audience will shrink even further. When NBC airs Deal or No Deal, Biggest Loser or Dateline, many high-def viewers will switch the channel to something -- anything -- that happens to be in HD.

So, I predict that NBC's ratings will fall even more dramatically next year -- and I will expand that prediction to say that Jeff Zucker will be the industry's Biggest Loser.

Yeah, Zucker is right AND wrong all at the same time. If the 'show' is good, people will still watch. However the longer and longer he holds out in getting stuff in HD will slowly deteriorate the networks viewership. For the most part reality shows are shot in SD, but you can't count on reality TV as much as you could a couple of years ago; today the show has to be a hit from the getgo for it to fill a competitive timeslot.

It also sounds like GE only cares about the end "expense/profit"; if his cutting HD-corners is keeping cash in their pockets, then I guess GE is happy.

He just better make his move at the right time, and hope he doesn't drive the company too far

Ha, ha I sent a letter a while back to KDKA and WTAE about how sad it was that Cleveland was so far ahead in HD-News...WTAE's response was hold on were about to light it up

KDKA's was a response complaining about funding and how Clevland is such a bigger Demograhic are than Pittsburgh, what's going on there in KD land? No

Maybe 621-5808 should hold a fundraiser for KDKA, lol!

"SO much larger" ha, I do understand the cry for help though

Cleveland - #17 1,524,930, 1.332

Pittsburgh - #23 1,156,460, 1.010

Whose gonna be 1st WJAC or KDKA News in HD? My Money's on WJAC, they already finished the set.

Word on the street is that beginning in Jan. 09' KD is going to sign off after David Letterman and sign back on in the morning in time for The Early Show just to save on their rising Duquesne Light bill.

I was simply referring to KD's inabilities to broadcast the most enjoyable viewing experience that they can technically provide.

I noticed that the CBS Evening News was HD for awhile, but all of a sudden is now back to 4:3 and The Insider which is advertised as being "in HD" has never gone 16:9.

I noticed that the CBS Evening News was HD for awhile, but all of a sudden is now back to 4:3 and The Insider which is advertised as being "in HD" has never gone 16:9.
I noticed this as well. Not sure what's going on.

I don't understand folks who say they'll watch "any" HD show over a SD show. I think that 95% or more of viewers care more about content than picture quality. If it's a show they like, they *will* watch it whether it's in HD or SD. Sure, being in HD enhances the experience (I think Survivor was better this season, in part because it was in HD), but it's not the only reason to watch something. With DVRs the idea of "competing" programming is dying; it doesn't really matter what a program is up against in its timeslot because lots of viewers aren't watching it then anyway.

If NBC can make money being in the #2 or #3 ratings slot, why wouldn't they stay there? Spending money to upgrade reality/game shows to HD only pays off if there's an incremental ratings bump from doing it. Maybe everybody who's going to watch Deal or No Deal, Mamma's Boys, etc. is already watching it.

I don't understand folks who say they'll watch "any" HD show over a SD show. I think that 95% or more of viewers care more about content than picture quality. If it's a show they like, they *will* watch it whether it's in HD or SD. Sure, being in HD enhances the experience (I think Survivor was better this season, in part because it was in HD), but it's not the only reason to watch something. With DVRs the idea of "competing" programming is dying; it doesn't really matter what a program is up against in its timeslot because lots of viewers aren't watching it then anyway.

If NBC can make money being in the #2 or #3 ratings slot, why wouldn't they stay there? Spending money to upgrade reality/game shows to HD only pays off if there's an incremental ratings bump from doing it. Maybe everybody who's going to watch Deal or No Deal, Mamma's Boys, etc. is already watching it.

I guess you didn't understand the gist of what the author of the article was trying to say, so I'll try to explain it to you.

There is an INCREASING number of people buying high-definition televisions. We see this in the stats that show up at the end of every year, usually following Christmas.

They are laying out lots of $$$$$$ doing this with the anticipation that they will get the bang for their buck that they are EXPECTING.

If NBC chooses not to give them their bang, then it is certainly their prerogative to not watch NBC programming, expecially when there is an increasing number of HD programming that they can enjoy.

Certainly, if you're interested in a program enough that it doesn't matter if it is in HD---you'll still watch it. That's a given.

But if NBC keeps dragging its feet and showing the viewers it doesn't give a rats ass about the publics investments in HD televisions, at some point in time the viewers will revolt against them and NOT watch their shows.

And of course, it's NBC's prerogative to stay in last place season after season.

If you think that's acceptable to the execs at GE, then I have some oceanfront property in Indiana County you may be interested in.

I don't understand folks who say they'll watch "any" HD show over a SD show.

You can't really talk in absolutes though. Multiple things compete for a timeslot and the fact that one is in HD and the other is not may be the tipping point to get someone to watch something else.

It's also the perception. When you are flipping though the channels and you see "HD, HD, HD, SD, HD, HD" the SD channel looks cheap by comparison. This really sucks for KDKA right now since they are the only non-HD news in town. Even the 10pm news on WPGH is in HD since it comes from WPXI.

You can't really talk in absolutes though. Multiple things compete for a timeslot and the fact that one is in HD and the other is not may be the tipping point to get someone to watch something else.

It's also the perception. When you are flipping though the channels and you see "HD, HD, HD, SD, HD, HD" the SD channel looks cheap by comparison. This really sucks for KDKA right now since they are the only non-HD news in town. Even the 10pm news on WPGH is in HD since it comes from WPXI.

I agree with you Bull but who's fault is it that KDKA still broadcasts its news in SD while the other outlets are in HD.

Kinda' shows you that something is seriously missing over there at "CBS 2" doesn't it?

Interesting article about what it really entails to broadcast a local HD newscast.

I guess we need to give kudo's to Mr. Morrison and Mr. Kasparek for their efforts.

What about you folks over at KD? Need a fundraiser? Hmmmm...such a shame for a station with so much heritage!!!

Interesting article about what it really entails to broadcast a local HD newscast.

I guess we need to give kudo's to Mr. Morrison and Mr. Kasparek for their efforts.

What about you folks over at KD? Need a fundraiser? Hmmmm...such a shame for a station with so much heritage!!!

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/30/what-it-takes-to-produce-an-hd-newscast/

What about you folks over at KD? Need a fundraiser? Hmmmm...such a shame for a station with so much heritage!!!

A shame especially when you consider it's a network owned and operated station.

I Hmmmm...such a shame for a station with so much heritage!!!

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/30/what-it-takes-to-produce-an-hd-newscast/

You'd think that with the many "firsts" that the KDKA has done in the realm of broadcasting (radio and TV) that they would have jumped all over HD technology. That said, my personal opinion is that KD's SD newscast content and delivery are still superior to that of their HD competitors.

That said, my personal opinion is that KD's SD newscast content and delivery are still superior to that of their HD competitors.

It's still local news though. Being "superior" in this context doesn't mean a hell of a whole lot.

I only catch local news sporadically since I don't actively watch it myself (only end up catching it if I'm visiting my parents or someone else) and dear god every time I see it it gets worse and worse. I'm not just talking about one network here, across the board.

It's still not quite as bad as I've seen in other cities, but it's becoming more and more worthless in my opinion.

While it is a shame that KDKA can't get withthe program and being a pioneer and a Pittsburgh lore, I have to disagree with the content is superior without question. Matter of fact I find it heavily wanting behind WPXI (my #1) and WTAE (my #2) by a far margin....I use to be a huge KDKA guy but no more, bad picture poor coverage...what happened to our leader?

You have to love the fact that KDKA-TV (a CBS owned & operated station) doesn't air the CBS Evening News (which is broadcast in HD on the network) in its native HD format. It airs it in SD. And a really bad standard definition at that!

Also, The Insider HD (it even airs the HD logo) is broadcast by KD in standard definition.

Hey, what's going on over there at KD? Here's a reminder to you CBS2 folks that 2009 is only 8 days away. Maybe you should take down the 2006 calendar.

I found this at the AVS DTV Final Table of Allotments (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15382089#post15382089) thread.
KDKA is one of four Pennsylvania stations that the FCC says are eligible have offered to keep their analog transmitters lit after the February 17th transition. KYW in Philadelphia, WPSU in Clearfield, and WJAC in Johnstown are the others. (You can find a link to the entire list at the above link.)
Under the just passed Analog Nightlight Program, participating analog stations would be able to remain on the air, but only to broadcast a transition message in both English and Spanish, and to pass along public safety information (such as severe weather warnings), and only for an additional 30 days.

I found this at the AVS DTV Final Table of Allotments (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15382089#post15382089) thread.
KDKA is one of four Pennsylvania stations that the FCC says are eligible have offered to keep their analog transmitters lit after the February 17th transition. KYW in Philadelphia, WPSU in Clearfield, and WJAC in Johnstown are the others. (You can find a link to the entire list at the above link.)
Under the just passed Analog Nightlight Program, participating analog stations would be able to remain on the air, but only to broadcast a transition message in both English and Spanish, and to pass along public safety information (such as severe weather warnings), and only for an additional 30 days.

How ridiculous.

The FCC has released a report covering all full-power digital stations and comparing the extent of those signals with their analog signals: http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/.

While it is a shame that KDKA can't get withthe program and being a pioneer and a Pittsburgh lore, I have to disagree with the content is superior without question. Matter of fact I find it heavily wanting behind WPXI (my #1) and WTAE (my #2) by a far margin....I use to be a huge KDKA guy but no more, bad picture poor coverage...what happened to our leader?

It is a shame that after so much history KDKA hasn't even changed news sets for the HD broadcasts. If they put half the effort that they did on KDKA HD RADIO AM&FM (Which sounds unbelievable even on AM) we would be enjoying Local news and Insider in HD. I know TV is much more complicated, but this is the countrys first TV station.O well, at least the audio has improved 100% over last year.:rolleyes:

... but this is the countrys first TV station....KDKA-TV was not the first TV station. Although (as WDTV), it was the first to broadcast 24/7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDKA-TV

Anyone know what's the deal with ABC?

I'm in Shadyside (immediately down the street from CMU) and dying to ditch Comcast. I pay them $16/mo for basic cable (basically 8 channels) plus and additional $9 for a HD cable box that was free last year. I also used to get Food, NatGeo, Discovery Theater, History, TNT, ESPN included, but that's all been taken away. Before that, they increased their prices by 10-20% and everything got too expensive, plus my "promo rate" ended, so I cut my services down to the bare minimum. My cable internet (768kbps for $25/mo, discounted rate with cable service) isn't even fast enough to stream online video. I have been unsuccessful in getting any decent deal that they give away to new customers, I try every few months. I even signed up for Dish TurboHD package and was all set to have it installed, but when I called Comcast to cancel my cable, they said the rate for my pitiful internet service rate would go up to $43/mo unless I kept cable tv service, so I had to stick with them to keep my rate down. So now I'm still stuck with Comcast.

Anyway, I have a small HDTV antenna, which if I put at the window of my apartment I get clear HD signals for NBC, FOX, CBS, PBS, and whatever myTV or WB is now. However, I cannot get ABC at all. Moving the antenna to 3 windows facing other directions is no help. Thus, I'm stuck paying $25/mo for something that I should be getting OTA for free.

Will ABC improve their signal sometime soon to Shadyside?

Anyone know what's the deal with ABC?

I'm in Shadyside (immediately down the street from CMU) and dying to ditch Comcast. I pay them $16/mo for basic cable (basically 8 channels) plus and additional $9 for a HD cable box that was free last year. I also used to get Food, NatGeo, Discovery Theater, History, TNT, ESPN included, but that's all been taken away. Before that, they increased their prices by 10-20% and everything got too expensive, plus my "promo rate" ended, so I cut my services down to the bare minimum. My cable internet (768kbps for $25/mo, discounted rate with cable service) isn't even fast enough to stream online video. I have been unsuccessful in getting any decent deal that they give away to new customers, I try every few months. I even signed up for Dish TurboHD package and was all set to have it installed, but when I called Comcast to cancel my cable, they said the rate for my pitiful internet service rate would go up to $43/mo unless I kept cable tv service, so I had to stick with them to keep my rate down. So now I'm still stuck with Comcast.

Anyway, I have a small HDTV antenna, which if I put at the window of my apartment I get clear HD signals for NBC, FOX, CBS, PBS, and whatever myTV or WB is now. However, I cannot get ABC at all. Moving the antenna to 3 windows facing other directions is no help. Thus, I'm stuck paying $25/mo for something that I should be getting OTA for free.

Will ABC improve their signal sometime soon to Shadyside?

I don't know about WTAE's plans, however, have you thought about trying a different antenna? I use the amplified Radio Shack DA-5200 and love it. You could buy and try a different antenna, and if it doesn't work, take it back. (One caveat: the DA-5200 is UHF, and come Feb '09, some stations will transmit VHF.)

On a different front, have you thought about one of those $99/month "bundles?" My DISH bill alone is $ 47 / month (no locals, I get them OTA), so getting comparable TV, plus phone and high speed internet for another fifty bucks would be a deal, at least for me. Unfortunately, I don't have Verizon out here (we have small Consolidated Communications.)

Anyone know what's the deal with ABC?

WTAE's transmitter is located in southern Allegheny County, whereas the other stations' are situated closer to the city.

WTAE's transmitter is actually no further or closer that the ones in the North Hills. The problem is their station is sitting in a valley, and the signal doesn't propagate well to many parts of the city.

WTAE's transmitter is actually no further or closer that the ones in the North Hills.

The KDKA and 22/53 sticks are roughly four to five miles from the Point, whereas TAE's is almost 16 as the crow flies.

WPXI took little time in shutting down 11-2. I checked their website to make sure it wasn't just a transmission problem, and sure enough it is just a black screen as well. WJAC's stream is showing the generic NBC Weather Plus L-bar with "RTN6" in the video window and WTOV's is just RTN.

WPXI took little time in shutting down 11-2. I checked their website to make sure it wasn't just a transmission problem, and sure enough it is just a black screen as well. WJAC's stream is showing the generic NBC Weather Plus L-bar with "RTN6" in the video window and WTOV's is just RTN.

To update, WJAC exorcised the remains of WeatherPlus overnight and now RTN is running normally on 6-2.

The KDKA and 22/53 sticks are roughly four to five miles from the Point, whereas TAE's is almost 16 as the crow flies.

We'll, it certainly doesn't feel that far away. However my mother lives within spitting distance of WTAE and she gets crappy HD from them also. And the reason is the VALLEY that its in, not the distance.

I lost WTAE when I switched to OTA digital. The Analog signal worked just fine but the digital one is too weak to watch. Location is southern Butler County. Been viewing ABC on 8.2 but antenna web is showing a weaker signal after the transition?? Maybe due to the frequency change? Hopefully will not lose them too.

Anybody notice that the RTN programming on 6 and 11 is not the same? It has become the favorite network around here.

Does WPXI have any plans for 11.2?

Anybody notice that the RTN programming on 6 and 11 is not the same? It has become the favorite network around here.

Even 6(34) gets into southern Butler County? Sheesh! :mad:

RTN affiliates don't run programming in tandem like ABC, CBS, etc. affiliates. Stations can pick and choose which programs from the network they'd like to carry. I get several RTN affiliates on my BUD, and the programming can vary greatly from one to the other.

Does WPXI have any plans for 11.2?

Universal Sports was proposed to be the replacement for Weather Plus, but the decision would be up to each station on carriage. It would be nice to at least put PCNC up temporarily while things are ironed out.

Anybody notice that the RTN programming on 6 and 11 is not the same? It has become the favorite network around here.

I found a schedule on each website
WJAC(6) RTN: http://www.wjactv.com/download/2009/0102/18400328.pdf
WPXI(11) RTN: http://www.wpxi.com/download/2008/0721/16942895.pdf

Anybody notice that the RTN programming on 6 and 11 is not the same? It has become the favorite network around here.

I just got back from an extended vacation and must say that I was pleased to see WJAC had added RTN as 6-2 instead of the weather...AND the programming isnt exactly the same as WPXI's RTN. I love RTN and now having two to choose from gives me that much more to watch.

Dave...if our votes count for anything...I vote to put in a movie channel of some sort for WPXI's 11-2.

In my parents area they get the ION network over the air (I think its ION) and it has a movie sub-channel...I was blown away at that. I wish they would start up a station here in the Pittsburgh area...or at least one near enough that I can point my antenna towards it and pick it up.

ION doesn't have a movie subchannel. Where are they located?

You might be thinking of This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV). :)

- Trip

ION doesn't have a movie subchannel. Where are they located?

You might be thinking of This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV). :)

- Trip

They're in Nashville, TN. I could swear it was ION though, or perhaps ION and another station being retransmitted. It did have 5 sub-shannels.

WNPX-DT down there has the same set of subchannels as every other ION station. Now ION does have some movies on the weekends, maybe that's what you saw.

- Trip

Question to Dave Morrison (if he can answer it).

Now that The Retro Television Network has apparently gone belly up (I can't even access their web site www.rtnville.com/ anymore) and NBC's Weather Plus channel has been discontinued, will WPXI-DT finally put on an animated looped 24hr. (ONLY) radar---nothing else channel (low bandwidth), as I have been asking for years?

RTN has not gone belly up. www.myretrotv.com

http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/01/05/daily.5/

- Trip

In the RTN mess, can anyone within range of WTOV-DT confirm what's on 9.2?

In the RTN mess, can anyone within range of WTOV-DT confirm what's on 9.2?

RTN has been on 9.2 since slightly before 1/1/09. They identify as "RTN Ohio Valley on WTOV, channel 9.2, Steubenville". I checked them a few moments ago as they were ending a "Kojak" episode. They look good as long as there is minimal action being shown...increased action reveals many artifacts caused by the low bandwidth being used.

I just noticed that wpxi has 11-2 and 11-3 both coming up as RTN. The video is the same but the audio sounds different.

They identify as "RTN Ohio Valley on WTOV, channel 9.2, Steubenville".

That's a mouthful! :)

I just noticed that wpxi has 11-2 and 11-3 both coming up as RTN. The video is the same but the audio sounds different.

11-2 is now "RTN" and 11-3 says "WPXI-DT." I guess today was the transition to 11-2 and 11-3 will be eliminated.

It looks like WQED has moved there regular programing to 13.1 and 13.2 is now create. (although their playing The News Hour right now)

Edit:
Found this on wqed.org: http://www.wqed.org/tv/schedule.php

i don't know how fast i can get a response, but i'm watching wpgh right now (fringe).. and it is NOT in HD.. and i'm pretty sure it's because they have a stupid ad for american idol. I've seen HD broadcasts drop to SD when they try to insert something into it.

I'm pissed..

who can i call? tried the main number and of course get no reponse.

i don't know how fast i can get a response, but i'm watching wpgh right now (fringe).. and it is NOT in HD.. and i'm pretty sure it's because they have a stupid ad for american idol. I've seen HD broadcasts drop to SD when they try to insert something into it.

I'm pissed..

who can i call? tried the main number and of course get no reponse.

Something was up regionally or nationally, because it was also SD (in letterbox format) on WWCP Fox 8 out of Johnstown, and they're usually pretty good about keeping Fox programs in HD (though they have about a two second delay relative to WPGH Fox 53).

So, what is WPXI going to do with their spare subchannel? Since they are now putting RTN on both channels, I assume they're at least inclined to push something on that channel, as opposed to just shutting it off.

I'd strongly support a live radar sub. In fact, since WTOV has one, I'm considering putting up a good upper-VHF antenna to get it when they go back to their legacy channel in Feb.

Jan 8, 2:53 PM EST

Obama team urges delay in digital TV transition

By JOELLE TESSLER
AP Technology Writer



WASHINGTON (AP) -- President-elect Barack Obama is urging Congress to postpone the Feb. 17 switch from analog to digital television broadcasting, arguing that too many Americans who rely on analog TV sets to pick up over-the-air channels won't be ready.

In a letter to key lawmakers Thursday, Obama transition team co-chair John Podesta noted that the Commerce Department has run out of money for coupons to subsidize digital TV converter boxes for consumers. People who don't have cable or satellite service or a new TV with a digital tuner will need the converter boxes to keep their older analog sets working.

Obama officials are also concerned that the government is not doing enough to help consumers - particularly poor, rural and elderly Americans - prepare for and navigate the transition.

"With coupons unavailable, support and education insufficient, and the most vulnerable Americans exposed, I urge you to consider a change to the legislatively mandated analog cutoff date," Podesta wrote.

Congress required that broadcasters switch from analog to digital broadcasts, which are more efficient, to free up valuable chunks of wireless spectrum. The newly available room in the airwaves can be used for commercial wireless services and for emergency-response networks.

Podesta's letter went to the top Democrats and Republicans on the Senate and House Commerce committees. Congress mandated the Feb. 17 changeover and would have to pass a new law to postpone the date.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TEC_DIGITAL_TV_TRANSITION?SITE=OHCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Jan 8, 2:53 PM EST

Obama team urges delay in digital TV transition

By JOELLE TESSLER
AP Technology Writer



WASHINGTON (AP) -- President-elect Barack Obama is urging Congress to postpone the Feb. 17 switch from analog to digital television broadcasting, arguing that too many Americans who rely on analog TV sets to pick up over-the-air channels won't be ready.

In a letter to key lawmakers Thursday, Obama transition team co-chair John Podesta noted that the Commerce Department has run out of money for coupons to subsidize digital TV converter boxes for consumers. People who don't have cable or satellite service or a new TV with a digital tuner will need the converter boxes to keep their older analog sets working.

Obama officials are also concerned that the government is not doing enough to help consumers - particularly poor, rural and elderly Americans - prepare for and navigate the transition.

"With coupons unavailable, support and education insufficient, and the most vulnerable Americans exposed, I urge you to consider a change to the legislatively mandated analog cutoff date," Podesta wrote.

Congress required that broadcasters switch from analog to digital broadcasts, which are more efficient, to free up valuable chunks of wireless spectrum. The newly available room in the airwaves can be used for commercial wireless services and for emergency-response networks.

Podesta's letter went to the top Democrats and Republicans on the Senate and House Commerce committees. Congress mandated the Feb. 17 changeover and would have to pass a new law to postpone the date.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TEC_DIGITAL_TV_TRANSITION?SITE=OHCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Let's see... we've only been talking about this for how long? There are also countless messages on broadcast TV about this as well. The people they're talking about are probably the same ones you see scurrying off to the Post Office at 11:59 PM on April 15th to file their tax returns. I guess procrastination is just human nature, and no matter how you do this, someone will be upset over it. I can't wait to see the "Live Team Coverage" on Feb 18th by our local stations, when they show folks scratching their heads while watching snow on their TV's. :rolleyes:

So, what is WPXI going to do with their spare subchannel? Since they are now putting RTN on both channels, I assume they're at least inclined to push something on that channel, as opposed to just shutting it off.

I'd strongly support a live radar sub. In fact, since WTOV has one, I'm considering putting up a good upper-VHF antenna to get it when they go back to their legacy channel in Feb.

WTOV-DT only has one subchannel, 9.2, and it has been RTN (RetroTV Network) since 1/1/09. There is no live radar on WTOV. The now defunct NBC Weather Plus sub was on 9.2 before RTN began.

Let's see... we've only been talking about this for how long?

The first shut off date was supposed to be January 1, 2006, and the same thing happened. Everyone came out of the woodwork to claim that there were people not ready and it needs to be pushed back so February 17, 2009 was picked.

How long are we going to wait? Until the FCC can confirm the last person who needs a box has one? I know the coupon program has run out of money, but people procrastinate nonetheless. They have been available since last New Year's Day, not to mention all of the PSA and crawls saying digital is coming, so it's not like the government hasn't given sufficient time to acquire coupons and boxes.

WTOV-DT only has one subchannel, 9.2, and it has been RTN (RetroTV Network) since 1/1/09. There is no live radar on WTOV. The now defunct NBC Weather Plus sub was on 9.2 before RTN began.

Hmmm ... could sworn someone told me WTOV had a radar sub. Too bad. There's now way I'll ever get 33.3 out of Youngstown steady.

Hmmm ... could sworn someone told me WTOV had a radar sub. Too bad. There's now way I'll ever get 33.3 out of Youngstown steady.

Now that I think about it...I think WTOV DID briefly have a radar sub...maybe it was 9.3. Youngstown ch 33 has applied for a big increase in power so maybe you'll be able to receive them better after this once takes place?

Addition: Refreshed my memory by looking at the Wheeling/Steubenville thread....the WTOV 9.3 radar sub was taken off last October after being on for about 5 months.

The first shut off date was supposed to be January 1, 2006, and the same thing happened. Everyone came out of the woodwork to claim that there were people not ready and it needs to be pushed back so February 17, 2009 was picked.

How long are we going to wait? Until the FCC can confirm the last person who needs a box has one? I know the coupon program has run out of money, but people procrastinate nonetheless. They have been available since last New Year's Day, not to mention all of the PSA and crawls saying digital is coming, so it's not like the government hasn't given sufficient time to acquire coupons and boxes.

Well Said JK77

Delaying the digital switchover yet again would be stupid and wasteful. Enough is enough. Time's up. No more reprieves for people who don't pay attention. Force them to change now.

Don't we need the revenue from selling the analog spectrum? Probably a drop in the bucket in the face of all the bailouts going on, but it couldn't hurt to get a little non-tax money flowing in to government coffers for a change.

All of which means nothing to politicians, so there will no doubt be another postponement. I mean, what's the chances that this Congress will fail to respond to the urgings of the popular new prez?

Hmmm ... could sworn someone told me WTOV had a radar sub. Too bad. There's now way I'll ever get 33.3 out of Youngstown steady.

That's a good point -- there are no "radar only" subchannels, anymore, just the radar you get in 33.3's forecasts, as well as in WTAE's forecasts on 04-2. Maybe Dave is listening in and can convert one of WPXI's subs to radar for us! :rolleyes: WTOV's radar was the best one when it was online.

The first shut off date was supposed to be January 1, 2006, and the same thing happened. Everyone came out of the woodwork to claim that there were people not ready and it needs to be pushed back so February 17, 2009 was picked.

How long are we going to wait? Until the FCC can confirm the last person who needs a box has one? I know the coupon program has run out of money, but people procrastinate nonetheless. They have been available since last New Year's Day, not to mention all of the PSA and crawls saying digital is coming, so it's not like the government hasn't given sufficient time to acquire coupons and boxes.

I actually remember an intelligent co-worker in the mid-to-late 90's running around like Chicken Little telling us all that this was scheduled to happen in 2000...

I actually remember an intelligent co-worker in the mid-to-late 90's running around like Chicken Little telling us all that this was scheduled to happen in 2000...

I think there was an earlier date picked around 2002 or 2003; however, it seemed a little ridiculous as the industry wasn't as prepared to switch and consumers even less than now.

That's a good point -- there are no "radar only" subchannels, anymore, just the radar you get in 33.3's forecasts, as well as in WTAE's forecasts on 04-2. Maybe Dave is listening in and can convert one of WPXI's subs to radar for us! :rolleyes: WTOV's radar was the best one when it was online.

Not to revive an old argument that I lost, but . . . I'd be A-OK if WTAE would come in regularly. Of all the stations in America that are going to eat it post-transition, WTAE is one of the hardest hit. The reduction in their coverage area is very visible even on the most charitable mappings.

I actually like their weather channel when I can get it, but that's about a 30/70 proposition most days.

As for WTOV -- thanks guys for jumping in there. I was pretty sure they used to have a weather sub.

I wish we had had at least one VHF-Hi DTV channel in the region before the transition. Most days I get good reception of WTOV analog just with my CM 4228. I had pretty good hopes the VHF-Hi digital WTOV would be receivable with a decent VHF-Hi antenna. Obviously the project isn't worth pursuing if I don't gain more than I have with WPXI and WJAC.

Hi everyone!

I was trying to find info on why RTN has been acting so... odd... the past few days and stumbled upon this site. Seriously, where have you all been for the past few years?

We live in the far southern reaches of Allegheny county and use an antenna, placed in our attic, as our sole reception. Not a problem. We purchased a Sony (tube) television with an integral tuner 2 years ago and have been receiving digital stations just fine. Same on the smaller Magnavox LCD (HD) television in another room.

My question is this:

During the last month or so, our digital signal has been breaking up oftenon both televisions. No problem now, since we can change the channel to analog if it is too bothersome. But February 18th is coming (and, please, let's get this change out of the way for once and for all!), so I must ask this:

Will the digital signals be any stronger once the analog signals are out of the way? If not (which probably is the case), is there a way to boost the signal strength?

Thanks in advance!

The first shut off date was supposed to be January 1, 2006, and the same thing happened. Everyone came out of the woodwork to claim that there were people not ready and it needs to be pushed back so February 17, 2009 was picked.

How long are we going to wait? Until the FCC can confirm the last person who needs a box has one? I know the coupon program has run out of money, but people procrastinate nonetheless. They have been available since last New Year's Day, not to mention all of the PSA and crawls saying digital is coming, so it's not like the government hasn't given sufficient time to acquire coupons and boxes.

Amen - you ain't ready by now?
It's your fault.

Will the digital signals be any stronger once the analog signals are out of the way?

In some cases, yes, there will be an improvement. But, the improvements will be for very specific reasons.

Those reasons will be:

1. Some digitals are receiving interference from analog channels. For example, I occasionally lose WPGH because of an analog 43 channel in Ohio on strong tropo days during the summer.

2. Several channels will be changing their radio frequency and this will improve reception. Most notable will be WQED, whose move from 38 to 13 should lead to a marked improvement in fringe areas and valleys.

3. It is not 100% certain what the net effect of all the analog channels shutting down will be.

4. Some channels are going to be allowed to boost their signal. The FCC is granting permits regularly for boosts. But, don't expect big results until things settle down and the FCC has a clearer picture of what the post-transition environment looks like from the standpoint of interference between markets.

One of the more unstated problems of the transition is that we don't know for sure what the total effect is going to be when all the analogs go away. Some channels will clearly improve because they won't be receiving interference from out-of-market analog stations anymore.

In general, DTV signals are supposed to be less intrusive on neighboring channels. So, for example, a channel like WATM may see an improvement because analog 23 won't be there sliding up into the DTV signal on 24. That's the theory, anyhow. How valid that is remains to be seen.

Not every channel is going to get better. But, there should be a net benefit from the shutdown.

If not (which probably is the case), is there a way to boost the signal strength?

First off, part of your problem is seasonal effect. During the winters in western PA we rarely get any atmospheric boosts. So, channels you thought you had locked during the summer will go away because you were receiving them due to atmospheric reflections. Those conditions are stronger in spring, fall and especially summer.

Second, it depends on what you already have. If you have just an antenna rig, there is some room for improvement. A pre-amp plus proper grounding can be real difference makers, especially in fringe areas. A better antenna is always worth a try if you have money to play with.

But, at the base of it all, keep in mind that western PA is one of the worst reception areas in the entire country. We have lots of signals from neighboring markets. Signals from Youngstown, Ohio River valley, Cleveland, Buffalo and even Hagerstown can reach us. This is compounded by the rough terrain -- every hill bends signal and weakens reception. We also experience extreme swings in atmospheric effects.

Hate to sound so discouraging, but that's what you're up against.

MeowMeow,

I thank you for taking the time to reply, and will show this to my husband so we can figure out if we need to do anything additional (or replace the antenna
in our attic). Really, it wasn't that discouraging! We already have a pre-amp booster (forgot to mention this in my original post), but I didn't realize that the terrian/ weather would make such a difference as well.

As long as we aren't forced to subscribe to a cable/ satellite package in order to receive reception, we're happy... :o

Thanks again.

As long as we aren't forced to subscribe to a cable/ satellite package in order to receive reception, we're happy... :o

You may also want to ask the cable company about so-called "lifeline service". Basically, it's a cheap package they are required to offer with just the local channels.

With antennas, especially bigger rigs plus all the whirlygigs like a rotator and pre-amp, the marginal savings take years to obtain compared to the cost of lifeline service.

It's just a further thought. OTA is a bit voodoo in an area like western PA.

You may also want to ask the cable company about so-called "lifeline service". Basically, it's a cheap package they are required to offer with just the local channels.

I imagine it is Comcast, and if they are all the same, they will offer all of the local OTA analogs and digitals in clear QAM. I get them with just a subscription to high speed Internet which is $40/month.

I just started reading this post here for Pittsburgh. I'm in southern Butler County and don't get all the channels that TitanTV says we should be getting (for our zip code). I have a Radio Shack 'omni directional' antenna in the attic. It came with it's own 'little' booster. The run of cable from antenna to TV is about 100ft.
Do we need to consider other antennas? Boosters (preamps), etc??

I have a Radio Shack 'omni directional' antenna in the attic. It came with it's own 'little' booster. The run of cable from antenna to TV is about 100ft.
Do we need to consider other antennas? Boosters (preamps), etc??

It is better to have a directional antenna because it will null signals from other directions besides the one you are trying to receive. Multipath is still a problem with digital TV, but instead of ghost images, it can wipe out a signal completely.

Installing one outdoors is preferred because the signals won't have to penetrate the roof, and as high as possible to obtain a good signal with a rotor to adjust it for optimal reception. It's best to give digital signals the path of least resistance from tower to antenna.

Do we need to consider other antennas? Boosters (preamps), etc??

Just for kicks, try taking any booster you have out of the line. I found that I have better reception without any signal amplification at my home.

Dave Morrison
WPXI Engineering

Dave (dmorrison) has some good advice. Inline boosters and such have, in my experience, been beyond worthless.

A 100 foot run of wire almost demands a preamp. While you're welcome to try cheaper solutions first, my suggest would be a couple decent directional antennas (I say a couple because I assume one will point at Pittsburgh and the other at Youngstown) + a combiner and then a preamp for the run from the combiner to the TV.

You're far enough from either set of transmitter that you can't buy too much antenna. Frankly, if you're getting anything with a Radio Shack omni then you're probably in a spot where a pair of Channel Master 4221s would rock.

my suggestion would be a couple decent directional antennas (I say a couple because I assume one will point at Pittsburgh and the other at Youngstown) + a combiner and then a preamp for the run from the combiner to the TV.


MeowMeow...are you using a combiner? Care to share what you're using?

Dave Morrison
WPXI Engineering

MeowMeow...are you using a combiner? Care to share what you're using?

Currently I am I running:

Channel Master 4228 with 6' of RG6 Quad Shield into a Channel Master 7777 preamp. All mounted at the end of 30' of pipe plus another six feet of narrow well casing for the mast above the rotator. Then there is a 50' run of RG6 quad from the preamp to the house. All properly grounded.

I live 60 mi away from Pittsburgh, so I have to throw everything but the kitchen sink to get channel.

In the past, when I kept the VHF antenna up, I had run the following systems at different times:

VHF + 4228 to the 7777 and about 25' to the house.

VHF + 4228 run down separate leads to combiner and later a switch in the house.

Two VHF/UHF antennas down to a combiner. Before that a single antenna and lead without anything.

With the exception of KDKA's digital, I was never able to pick up Pittsburgh prior to adding the 4228.

And the oldest rig (the two VHF/UHF antennas) would only pick up WJAC-DT (40 mi away) and was otherwise entirely for analog.

I ditched the VHF / UHF the first spring after getting my first, and still only, HDTV. The first setup with the 4228 was encouraging enough (I could occassionally lock WPGH and WKBN) that I started improving it.

Obviously if you have the money and the time to mess with it, going straight to the 4228 setup is what I'd recommend to anyone who isn't in the overload area roughly ten miles from transmitters.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2009-01-15-digital-tv-switch-june_N.htm

Senate blocks bill to delay digital-TV switch until June
By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY
Senate Republicans have blocked a bill that would delay the nationwide switch from analog to digital television broadcasts until June 12. But Democrats say they will try again to pass the measure next week.

The bill was defeated even after President-elect Barack Obama on Friday urged Congress to postpone the Feb. 17 transition. There have been mounting concerns that too many Americans who rely on older, analog TV sets to pick up broadcast channels won't be ready. The federal program that subsidizes digital converter boxes for such viewers ran out of money this month.

Senate Republicans fear a delay would cause consumer confusion and deprive public safety agencies of the airwaves that will be freed by the switchover.

Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., incoming chairman of the powerful Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, on Thursday proposed the legislation to delay the switch to digital TV.

"I firmly believe that our nation is not yet ready to make this transition," Rockefeller said. Any extension also must be approved by the House.

Separately, the House Appropriations Committee recommended $650 million in new funds for the DTV transition.

"We're pleased to see Congress moving so quickly on an issue that will affect millions of consumers," says Chris Murray, a senior lawyer with Consumers Union, which supports a delay.

Congress originally ordered the switch to digital TV to take place Feb. 17. Congressional action is needed to change the cutover date.

The government's $1.34 billion coupon program for digital converter boxes ran out of money two weeks ago. The program, authorized by Congress, gives households up to two $40 coupons to offset the cost of buying a digital converter box, which turns digital signals into analog. Only TVs that use antennas to get over-the-air signals need boxes. Cable and satellite TV customers aren't affected.

The coupon program is considered core to the switchover. The boxes cost $40 to $70, on average. The coupon program is being overseen by the Commerce Department's National Telecommunications and Information Administration.

Since funding ran out, the agency has been putting consumers on a waiting list. As of Thursday, about 2.1 million people were on the list, a twentyfold increase from two weeks ago.

Those supporting a delay include Obama, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., Consumers Union, AARP and telecom giant AT&T. Opponents, including the Consumer Electronics Association trade group and Verizon, argue that a delay would cause even more confusion.

As envisioned by Congress, the cutover was supposed to be a seamless transition that would usher in a new era in TV viewing. Instead, the USA now finds itself in crisis mode. NTIA informed lawmakers in late December that the coupon program was about to run out of money. Congress wasn't in session at the time.

The Federal Communications Commission says it expects to field 2 million calls, at least, on the day the cutover happens.

Contributing: Associated Press

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2009-01-15-digital-tv-switch-june_N.htm

Senate blocks bill to delay digital-TV switch until June
By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY
Senate Republicans have blocked a bill that would delay the nationwide switch from analog to digital television broadcasts until June 12. But Democrats say they will try again to pass the measure next week.
It looks like any delay at this point will be voluntary so the real question here is what will the Pittsburgh stations actually do? A further delay was clearly not in their plans.

Is it even feasible for the switchover to be voluntary? With stations switching frequencies, there would be overlap unless everything was perfectly coordinated. For instance, Pittsburgh's CW station can't start broadcasting a digital signal until another station vacates the frequency in question. It seems like a huge headache unless everyone switches at once.

Another thing i'm wondering about... Is the program actually out of money? Or are they just unsure yet? I received my two $40 coupons but then never used them after discovering the lack of component output on qualifying tuners. In other words, they may be budgeting for all coupons distributed just in case those coupons are eventually cashed in. My bet is that a huge percentage will never be used.

My vote? Make the switchover without another delay. Some people will scream and be without a TV for a few weeks while they get the necessary gear bought and configured. In the meantime, they'll just have to listen to the radio for weather alerts etc.

This has got to be upsetting to WPCW as well (and anyone who can't get CW-HD from Comcast or FIOS.) They can't start their digital transmission until WPXI vacates channel 11.

This also is going to screw Verizon Wireless because their LTE (4g) rollout plans will have to be adjusted if the spectrum is not vacated when planned.

The fact of the matter is, we will never be completely ready. We can't keep postponing it over and over again because of a handful of people who will whine when their TVs go dark. Since when did TV reception become a right anyways?

Is it even feasible for the switchover to be voluntary?
IMHO the less voluntary the delay the more likely there is to be a constitutional challenge. Any delay will however be a mess.

To be honest...the announce of the digital transition annoyed me...having to get coupons to buy all these boxes (only two per household, and thanks to the greed of the manufacturers only covered "part" of the cost) and change my antenna setup...it was all a real hassle, especially since I was scared into ordering my coupons early and getting the first release of CECBs, many of which were buggy as all getout. This past year with respect to TV programming has been a real PITA...something I never want to have to go through again.

That having been said...nothing would make me angrier than for them to delay this transition. Had I known it was gonna be delayed I would have let others be the guinea pigs for these CECBs and saved myself a lot of time and trouble. :rolleyes:

Is it even feasible for the switchover to be voluntary? With stations switching frequencies, there would be overlap unless everything was perfectly coordinated. For instance, Pittsburgh's CW station can't start broadcasting a digital signal until another station vacates the frequency in question. It seems like a huge headache unless everyone switches at once.

Another thing i'm wondering about... Is the program actually out of money? Or are they just unsure yet? I received my two $40 coupons but then never used them after discovering the lack of component output on qualifying tuners. In other words, they may be budgeting for all coupons distributed just in case those coupons are eventually cashed in. My bet is that a huge percentage will never be used.

My vote? Make the switchover without another delay. Some people will scream and be without a TV for a few weeks while they get the necessary gear bought and configured. In the meantime, they'll just have to listen to the radio for weather alerts etc.

As I understand it, if you have unexpired coupons, they are still good. The coupons are good for 90 days from issue. If your coupons expire, someone who's on the so-called "waiting list" will get two newly issued coupons (if they asked for two.) Once all coupons have been redeemed, then the program has officially used all of its money. At least that how I understand it...

I agree with the lack of component outputs on these things, but I think that they were designed to be as inexpensive as possible. More features equals higher cost. I bought the Zenith DTT-900 early on, which tunes in things very well, but does not have an analog pass-through (the newer DTT-901 does --what were they thinking in the first place.)

Anyone else seeing that KDKA's time is off by ~5 hours? My timer for House didnt fire tonight because at 8PM the time said 3PM.

I've heard on other threads here that it's against FCC regulations for the time to be too far off. Dont know how much truth there is to it...but if it is, I'm guessing its selectively enforced, as there are other channels that arent showing the correct time either. Unfortunately KDKA/CBS happens to be the one my DTVPal goes by. :(

Anyone else seeing that KDKA's time is off by ~5 hours? My timer for House didnt fire tonight because at 8PM the time said 3PM.

I noticed it too when I hit the "INFO" button during The Late Late Show and it said The Insider was on. I've also noticed it is now "KDKA 2." (no idea the reason for the period and no one on the other side) instead of "KDKA-DT."

I caught the WQED DTV transition show last night, at the end of which was mentioned their reclaiming 13 for permanent digital broadcasting. Then it said this transition will take place no later than August 2009 and they would let the viewing public know when to rescan.

I called WQED Member Services January 23, 2009 9:30am and asked when the WQED digital signal would switch from RF 38 (UHF) to RF 13 (VHF). That person called back after asking the Chief Engineer and she said WQED digital is staying on RF 38 where is currently is - the digital signal will not be broadcasted on RF 13 - i.e. no post-transition switch. Hmmm....

They'll be moving back to 13, it'll just be delayed. They have to remove analog equipment and replace it with new digital equipment for channel 13.

- Trip

That person called back after asking the Chief Engineer and she said WQED digital is staying on RF 38 where is currently is - the digital signal will not be broadcasted on RF 13 - i.e. no post-transition switch. Hmmm....

They need to watch their own station. The same announcement that I saw about the move back to 13 was aired between programs last night.

They need to watch their own station. The same announcement that I saw about the move back to 13 was aired between programs last night.

I saw the same announcement on QED this morning informing of the delayed switch to VHF. In essence, they said that you'll simply need to do a re-scan in order to pick them up. I wonder if they will broadcast a message on UHF for awhile when this happens so people will know.

While we're talking about QED, and not that it's a bad thing, I can no longer receive WQEX 16. Is it just me? Everything else still comes in fine here.

I saw the same announcement on QED this morning informing of the delayed switch to VHF. In essence, they said that you'll simply need to do a re-scan in order to pick them up. I wonder if they will broadcast a message on UHF for awhile when this happens so people will know.

While we're talking about QED, and not that it's a bad thing, I can no longer receive WQEX 16. Is it just me? Everything else still comes in fine here.


Not that I watch WQEX, I can't receive them any more only on analog.

So, when is WQED-DT moving to RF channel 13?

I ask because where I am at, RF 38 is not the easiest channel to receive. TV Fool says I should get much better reception of WQED digital when it goes back to VHF.

While we're talking about QED, and not that it's a bad thing, I can no longer receive WQEX 16. Is it just me? Everything else still comes in fine here.

I noticed WQEX-TV off for a few days a week ago and thought they had pulled the plug early, but it is broadcasting as of this post. WQED-DT is registering four out of ten bars but nothing out of WQEX-DT.

So, when is WQED-DT moving to RF channel 13?

The announcement said anytime between February 18 and August 18.

Happen to do a rescan of all digital channels on Friday noon, on my Panasonic dvd recorder [dmr-27]... everything remained the same,except channel 38.9 and 38.10 showed up on list. There was no signal on either channel. What would cause WQED station to come up with such high numbers after the 13.1, 13.2 13.3 ???

Happen to do a rescan of all digital channels on Friday noon, on my Panasonic dvd recorder [dmr-27]... everything remained the same,except channel 38.9 and 38.10 showed up on list. There was no signal on either channel. What would cause WQED station to come up with such high numbers after the 13.1, 13.2 13.3 ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV

- Trip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV

- Trip

I've been meaning to ask you for a while now, do you read these forums to offer advice, or do you actually receive Pittsburgh stations down there in VA?

If so, what kind of antenna setup do you have...cause I would love to duplicate it up here and try to get channels from down in VA. :D

I've been meaning to ask you for a while now, do you read these forums to offer advice, or do you actually receive Pittsburgh stations down there in VA?

If so, what kind of antenna setup do you have...cause I would love to duplicate it up here and try to get channels from down in VA. :D

I wish I had a system like that! I'd have it made! :D

No, I post in pretty much every OTA-related thread. I help others and provide information as best I can in the hopes that it will make a difference in someone's day and make them offer help to others. In addition, I run my website for that same purpose and try to get tips on updates from here.

- Trip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV

- Trip Well what do you know...Data to your receiver! Will PBS,or other stations,down the road,be able to turn on your set at a special time to record their Programming??? Just wondering!...Thanks Trip.

Well what do you know...Data to your receiver! Will PBS,or other stations,down the road,be able to turn on your set at a special time to record their Programming??? Just wondering!...Thanks Trip.

That I doubt, though there's ways of making a receiver change channels if the station you're tuned to asks your receiver to do so! (I've never seen a station implement it, but it's in the spec)

For example, a station on 69-3 goes off the air to make the HD on 69-1 look better. 69-3 can insert a signal that tells the box "this channel is going away, go to 69-1 instead."

- Trip

Looks like we have a few more months of the stupid ads and programs about the digital conversion. :mad:

Senate passes bill to delay digital TV switch (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090127/tv_nm/us_dtv_congress)

Looks like we have a few more months of the stupid ads and programs about the digital conversion. :mad:

Not to mention, come May 12 people will come out of the woodwork again and say, "NO ONE IS READY! WE NEED TO PUSH IT BACK!"

I say shut them down. Their radios will still work. Then they will either have to get with the program or not be able to watch free TV. If they haven't figured out there is a change coming by now, a couple more months will not help with anything.

Sorry to be so blunt but this is complete BS. This has been heavily advertised on the TV, in the newspapers, on the radio, and on utility bills. A delay will probably cause just as much confusion in addition to costing the stations a lot of money due to this uneeded delay. Not to mention screwing up the plans of the companies that were preparing to take over some of the vacated frequencies.

Sorry to be so blunt but this is complete BS.

I know -- what part of all the crawls and ads saying *THINGS ARE CHANGING! YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING!* do you think they could have missed?

On a more practical note:

What becomes of WPCW's switch to DT?

My understanding is that the new Senate bill allows stations to kill their analog with proper notice. So, WPXI should still be able to vacate RF 11, right?

I'm supposing Dave would have the most to say about this, since WPXI analog has to vacate before anything else happens. Dave?

On a more practical note:

What becomes of WPCW's switch to DT?

My understanding is that the new Senate bill allows stations to kill their analog with proper notice. So, WPXI should still be able to vacate RF 11, right?

IMHO there is a high probability WPCW's switch to 198-204 MHz will be delayed. CBS has already publicly stated that it supports the delay so if KDKA doesn't shut down analog it is very unlikely that either WTAE or WPXI will because Pittsburgh is a competitive TV market.

My understanding is that the new Senate bill allows stations to kill their analog with proper notice. So, WPXI should still be able to vacate RF 11, right?



Sorry Meow, but I'm not privy to that information. If I were a bettin' man, I'd put my money on NOT leaving 11 before we have to.

Dave

I kinda figure as much, Dave and Sammer.

Jeez. My last remaining transition fun is seeing whether any of the stations going back to their legacy channels (WWCP, WTOV, WQED) do anything early. Oh, well...

Sorry Meow, but I'm not privy to that information. If I were a bettin' man, I'd put my money on NOT leaving 11 before we have to.

Dave
Dave, any chance of you guys shutting off subchannels for a certain program on Sunday?

I wonder how many Pittsburgh stations will shut down analog on the 17th?

WPGH, WPMY, WWCP, WATM all just came in as going on 02/17.

- Trip

Dave, any chance of you guys shutting off subchannels for a certain program on Sunday?
yes, Yes, YES... THIS IS HUGE!

I'm going to be ready for this Sunday so I hope you guys do the right thing in that certain timeblock. NBC needs to show it can shine in prime time (IMO).

just don't drop the ball and lose the HD feed for even 1 second on sunday!

House Defeats Bill to Delay Digital TV Transition

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/28/AR2009012801883.html?hpid=topnews

just don't drop the ball and lose the HD feed for even 1 second on sunday!

You're thinking of KDKA.

In the last year I think I've seen WPXI miss the switch once, and that was during Jeopardy, not NFL.

Do we really need Jeopardy in HD? Alex Trebek's crow's feet aren't that big of a thing to look at. And as long as theres a feed Sunday, does it matter if it's HD? I'd rather have an SD feed than no feed...which is about even odds with this digital OTA stuff as of late.

And KDKA is off by 15 minutes again...though its 15 minutes fast so it's not as bad as being 4 hours behind.

Do we really need Jeopardy in HD?

Yes, it is important. Because Jeopardy is one of those programs we can point at and tell production companies, "Hey, they do HD! What's your excuse?"

And as long as theres a feed Sunday, does it matter if it's HD? I'd rather have an SD feed than no feed...which is about even odds with this digital OTA stuff as of late.

Dude? HD counts. Especially during football.

I reiterate: WPXI hasn't screwed up often, even during rather minor moments. I have a hard time picturing them screwing up during the Super Bowl.

And KDKA is off by 15 minutes again...though its 15 minutes fast so it's not as bad as being 4 hours behind.

You know, given its history, you'd think KDKA would be on top of DTV. But, these days WPXI is the leader.

Dave, any chance of you guys shutting off subchannels for a certain program on Sunday?

I don't know the answer to this, but since RTN has advertisers - and with the economic climate being what it is - I'd bet that it won't be shut down.

Dave

Do we really need Jeopardy in HD? Alex Trebek's crow's feet aren't that big of a thing to look at. And as long as theres a feed Sunday, does it matter if it's HD? I'd rather have an SD feed than no feed...which is about even odds with this digital OTA stuff as of late.

And KDKA is off by 15 minutes again...though its 15 minutes fast so it's not as bad as being 4 hours behind.

:mad: I can't believe you would even post something like this in this forum.

I don't know the answer to this, but since RTN has advertisers - and with the economic climate being what it is - I'd bet that it won't be shut down.

Dave
Thanks for the reply, Dave.

Too bad...

Thanks for the reply, Dave.

Too bad...

However, RTN is on -2 and -3 now since WX Plus is RIP.

Even taking down one would be great.

It's on TWO subchannels? How do you know they simply aren't "multicasting," if you will, in a manner that allows them to assign it two different subchannel IDs?

E.g.

They have WPIX-DT HD, WPXI-DT SD, and RTN in the same 6 MHz band, but tag the RTN channel twice.