I have the same problem on my 40XBR800 (Manufactured January 2004) using DVI connected to a HD Cable Box Motorola DCT5100. HDTV is so good that when there is a flaw/glitch there really is a FLAW. I especially see the white bar in dark scenes and when Commercial stations pause before going to commercials. And when it is letter box on all four sides you can especially see it then!!! What is that? it is not being broadcast but is there ALL the time... it repeats at exactly one width of the TV? I know it is a race car camera Squeegee!!! I still love my TV though AND anyone wondering 4:3 was really the way to go.
Will try the service menu fix...

Fixed! WOOHOO!
Changed: Group: "OP" Subset: "HDPT" to Value = 0
That was easy, looks like a little difference in brightness? not by much though...
advise not to change other values to compensate like Group "2170P-3" OR "CXA2125"? when I changed these it "corrupted" some 1080i Flesh tones? so I did not write these changes to memory...

I had the same un-admitted Sony problem on my KV-32HS510. I tried to get Sony Support and Sony Factory In-Home Service to acknowledge the problem and the service bulletin prior to wasting my time on a visit. And they only offered a 25% discount on the $154 service call despite my explaining that - had I been using DVI 1080i during the labor warranty period - I would have discovered the problem. No one would even look up the bulletin much less transfer me to anyone other than their supposed supervisors. I cancelled my service call during the timeframe that they were supposed to show up (after giving Sony a last chance to show up prepared and/or give me the call for free) and ran the HDPT and other fixes myself successfully (which I had done previously then I undid them before the service call). This is really bad and I gave multiple people at both numbers a very hard time. Sony stinks period. Reprehensible.

When I followed the directions for the fix this thread talks about, I first just changed the hdpt and that fixed the scrolling bar. I then went and changed all the other settings mentioned, but am wondering if I HAVE to make all the other changes, or can I reset the defaults and change JUST the HDPT.

Originally posted by eddieg516
When I followed the directions for the fix this thread talks about, I first just changed the hdpt and that fixed the scrolling bar. I then went and changed all the other settings mentioned, but am wondering if I HAVE to make all the other changes, or can I reset the defaults and change JUST the HDPT.

Changing HDPT alone causes that analog signal to go directly to the display tube instead of going first into memory. It is the act of avoiding the memory that allows the horizontal scanning frequency to be synchronized exactly to the horizontal pulses in the analog input signal. When we pass through memory, there is a slight difference in the rates of the signal going into memory compared to the signal coming out of memory, and it is that difference (about 1 cycle per second) that manifests itself as a vertical bar that sweeps across the screen at the same rate (1 cycle per second).

The memory stage, that is now bypassed, also had the effect of softening the image. Changing all the other settings as recommended in the bulletin allows you to artificially soften the analog signal so that it looks the same as before the patch was applied.

IMO, you cannot achieve this net benefit by resetting to the defaults and changing just the HDPT on older Sony models. Perhaps the newer 960 gives you a degree of control via the user menu which was previously only available via the service menu.

Even though you have deactivated the memory for 1080i use, it still functions for the other formats (720p,480i,480p), and it is for these other formats where you want the original (non default) settings to be maintained.

Thank you.

Since the fix is bypassing the memory in 1080i, if you were to have 2 of the same model sets next to each other, one with the fix and one without, would there be a noticeable difference in pq? I do not see a difference in pq, but I have nothing to compare the picture to.

Thanks!

Eddie

Originally posted by eddieg516
Thank you.

Since the fix is bypassing the memory in 1080i, if you were to have 2 of the same model sets next to each other, one with the fix and one without, would there be a noticeable difference in pq? I do not see a difference in pq, but I have nothing to compare the picture to.

Thanks!

Eddie

I don't have a 1080i source at the moment, so I can't comment.

The consensus on this forum is that the patch creates a subtle difference in sharpness/brightness which may be more noticeable with different programs.

Some people like the difference created by the patch (image is more raw) so much that they have decided not to add the extra steps from the service bulletin that soften the image. Others like the original look.

Some people like the difference created by the patch (image is more raw) so much that they have decided not to add the extra steps from the service bulletin that soften the image. Others like the original look.


When I follow the flow chart, at what point are the "extra steps that soften the image"?

Thanks,

Eddie

Originally posted by eddieg516
When I follow the flow chart, at what point are the "extra steps that soften the image"?

Everything done after changing the parameter HDPT constitutes an extra step that softens the image.

Up to 4 parameters are changed for the CXA2170 video processor chip for each picture mode (VIVID/STANDARD/MOVIE) for color sharpness.

At the end, 3 parameters are changed for the CXA2151 matrix control chip for color balance which apply to all modes.

I went into service mode, pressed "8" and the upper right of the screen said "reset" (or something like that) and I saved the data. But the HDPT is still 0...it did not change back to 1.

Eddie

Originally posted by eddieg516
I went into service mode, pressed "8" and the upper right of the screen said "reset" (or something like that) and I saved the data. But the HDPT is still 0...it did not change back to 1.

Eddie

The button you pressed "8" is called the "INITIALIZE" button.

The use of this button is prescribed no where in the service bulletin, so you were obviously poking in the dark. I can find no documentation that describes its use.

IMO, pressing "8" may simply force the setting of all parameters back to their factory defaults. I don't know if the factory defaults are the starting point or the end point of the factory calibration process.

Some of these parameters are also accessible from the user menu, like the service menu.

HDPT is not a parameter like the others. It is more like a control switch, used for trouble shooting during problem diagnosis, so I am not surprised that you can't change its value by pressing "8".

There are combinations of buttons that erase and reset the flash memory containing MID and SYSTEM parameters, such as by pressing "7" ,"jump", and "enter" as well as "7","9", and "enter".

These combinations and other combinations are to be avoided as they will erase and reset the critical alignment and control information set up in the factory.

Boy! You guys are great! I was referred to this furum by a contributer on the 'alt.tv.tech.hdtv' newsgroup. I have a KV-36HS510 manufactured in October, 2003. It had the scrolling vertical bars problem. (So much for SONY's fix, eh). The good news is I was able to fix the problem by making the dreaded service menu change of the OD / HDPT parameter. Thanks again everyone. This forum is the greatest.

On my kv-34hs510 I had no problems with 1080 through a comcast SA3100 box via component... A few months ago I traded in the 3100 for a Pace 550 w/ dvi and immediately noticed the scrolling - I would call it - dis-coloration vertically moving left to right. Very annoying! It was happening via dvi and component.

I assumed it was simply a frequency problem between the box and the TV. In my lazyness, I simply switched it over to 720P and figured I'd break into the service menu when I get around to it... months passed... I wanted to get into it this past weekend and it's gone. All channels were fine in 1080i. I think there may have been a firmware upgrade sent to the box when comcast added the VOD.

Thanks fellas, for all of the advice- even though I didn't use it. I guess laziness prevailed.

My question is: Should I leave well enough alone? Should I worry about getting the correct B board? I don't know the date of manufacture, but I purchased the set Aug '03.

Originally posted by Redfin
....
My question is: Should I leave well enough alone? Should I worry about getting the correct B board? I don't know the date of manufacture, but I purchased the set Aug '03.

The date of manufacture is on a label on the back of your TV, but odds are it has this problem. You might have an upgraded "B-board", though, which means you can fix it with a simple service menu tweak. Scroll back several pages in this thread and you'll find the info you need to determine whether or not your B-board needs upgrading. Your TV still has several more months of warranty coverage, so now's the time to get it fixed if it needs it. Of course, only you can decide if you might someday have a 1080i source that would show this problem.

I went back and reset the t.v. to the factory defaults and changed JUST the hdpt. Now I notice on a SD signal, whether it is fed through the regular cable or the DVI cable, there is some minor distortion on the picture...it looks like it is just a tiny bit wavy. Not noticible unless you are looking for it. Now I don't know if this was on the t.v. before when I did ALL of the system tweaks...it may have been and I just didn't notice it, but could this be from the HDPT fix?

Anyway, another question. Since the bar is on HD feeds, why does the fix have to be done on the regular cable feed? One of the fixes has the user change the t.v. to the component signal. Do I need to have anything on with this, as I have my dvd player, NOT the HD signal, on my component feed.

Lastly, if I never switch to the other modes (i.e. movie, vivid, etc). do I realy need to do those fixes also?

For the HD feed, I really like the way it looks with just the HDPT change. I may be remembering incorrectly the way it looked with ALL of the changes, but I think it looks great now.

Eddie g

I have a KV-32HS510, manufactured on August 2003. I have noticed this problem for a while, and finally realized it was my TV and not my HD cable box (or the reception).

After reading most of this thread, I was wondering, what exactly I should do? It seems like many of you had mentioned after following the steps from the bulletin there is a degradation of PQ. Is there any way around this? If I was to setup a service tech. to come, would they do anything different?

Also, where can I find my service manual for this tv? I don't know how to get to the service menu.

I have a KV-36HS510 but I understand the service menu is exactly the same on the 32HS510. Here are the steps that worked for me with no noticeable picture degradation. BE CAREFUL A MISTAKE CAN MESS UP YOUR TV!
(1) To access the service menu, do this: Turn the TV off and press - in sequence: 'Display' + '5' + 'Vol+' then 'power' on the remote control.
(2) TV will turn on showing the service menu with lots of really cryptic looking stuff. You don't need to understand any of it.
(3) Press '4' on the remote (Display - item down)
(4) Keep pressing '4' until you see 'HDPT'. It's near the top-left of the screen.
(5) On the HDPT page, notice the number '1' on the top right. You need to change the '1' to a '0'
(6) Press '6' (data down) on the remote - '1' will change to a '0'. NOTE: This tells the TV to use/match the sync rate from the HD receiver instead of using its own sync rate which is a hair different and is responsible for the scrolling vertical line. With the sync rates the same, the line should disappear when you turn the TV back on normally. But First -
(7) IMPORTANT Save your new settings. Press 'MUTE' and then 'ENTER'
(8) Turn off TV.
When you turn on the TV now, the vertical scrolling line should be gone on the 1080i channels. At least it is gone on my set. It's important to save the settings or a power interruption will cause the TV to resort to the old settings. This just happened to me when the electric guy came to replace the electric meter on my house but a quick re-execution of the above procedure got me back in business in no time. Good luck. :)

Thanks that worked! For some reason when I tried the 'Display + 5 + Vol+ then Power' combo earlier, it didn't work, so I thought I needed a different code. It did change my picture slightly, it just looks a little bit darker.

it is great that people like to help each other on this site! well, i appear to be in the same boat with my new XBR910 (manuf sept 03) and the vertical band.

i had a service call and he came with the E18728143 service bulletin (which i told them about) but while the 910 is not on that bulletin it seems to be the same chassis so i guess no worries.
he left convinced of my diagnosis and will be back with a B-board since he thinks i need one. sony sent a local guy, not a sony tech, and i know he has not worked on these sets.
well, after he installs the B-board i would like to know the correct service menu changes for an xbr910 (which is reported here to be different from the E18728143 bulletin) and two SM versions were printed in this thread:

1. (one posting said this) "The settings that should be there for a 910 after the SM fix are:
HDPT = 0 ( in all modes with RF input selected (I'll bet quite a few people don't do this).

With 1080i input:

Vivid Mode:
CBOP = 34, CROP = 32
SHOF=3, F1LV=3, LTMD=0

Standard Mode:
SHOF=3, F1LV=2

Movie Mode:
SHOF=2

YGN=7, CBGN=8, CRGN=8

Note: These values are a little different for other models (XBR800, etc.)"


2. (next day in thread): "The key is the CBOF & CROF settings are supposed to be 38 on the 910s and 37 on everything else"

I appreciate any help!

--Ross

p.s. side note, the strangest thing: all the guy did so far was check my input labels and did a "flag test" or something to see if any alarms went off and after he left my HD picture seems to be less clear. weird!

The inconsistencies that you observed are due to Sony updating the SB for new models, etc. The initial SB was before the 910 came out. The latest version (dated 9/29/03) does specifically list the 910.

The "current" changes for the 910 (1080i) are now listed as:

First (for the 910) HDPT settings (to 0) need to be made separately for each mode (Vivid, Standard & Movie).

Also in RF input set:
CBOP=34
CROP=32

Then for both Component & DVI Inputs:
VIVID:
SHOF=3
F1LV=3
LTMD=0

STANDARD:
SHOF=3
F1LV=2

MOVIE:
SHOF=3

VERIFY THAT WITH 1080i (&DVI):
YGN=7
CBGN=8
CRGN=8

I hope that clarifies things.

RE: "Flag" test: Not sure what he was doing. If he had a test generator and used the DVI connector, he may have been verifying correct HDCP operation. This should not have changed anything regarding picture quality.

thanks davehancock, it is kind of you to respond so quickly.

i see that the SHOF is 3 in Movie mode now instead of 2 in my posting, and i guess i will ignore the other comment: "The key is the CBOF & CROF settings are supposed to be 38 on the 910s and 37 on everything else."
yeah, it could be my imagination about the changes in picture quality after his initial check. all he did was go into a mode with the remote which he claimed would check for any internal "flags" that might have popped up indicating trouble.

--Ross

ok guys...please help me.

after reading through all the posts my brain is fried and head spinning.

I have the vetical white bar. I own a Sony 36XBR800 - Manu: May/2003

how do I check what board I have. take the back cover off ? tried to look with a flash light but dont really know what board I am looking for.

even if my board has the right chip am I to understand that the board may still need replacing and the correct ship from the old board installed on the new board ? need to confirm what is in my set. any help I would appreciate. changing HDPT settings and lowering the quality of my picture is not an option for me. thats why I need to understand the chip and board and what swaps are or need to be done. again my head is spinning after all the reading and opinions.

First of all, many do not experience "lowering of picture quality". Often the picture is DIFFERENT, not necessarily poorer. Second, the differences are minimized when ALL of the service menu changes are made. Last, if you make the HDPT change (remember to be tuned to a regular station) and the line goes away, you have the right board. If the line does not go away, then you need the board. As you have an XBR you have a 2 year warranty that may be expiring in a few months. Take advantage of it and locate a GOOD authorized service shop. Call them and tell them about the problem, that you know about it from the Internet (give them the SB number - E18728143) and have them take care of the entire problem.

1 year left on warranty. I just bought a sony 975 upscale dvd player and thats when I noticed that over 1080i. not on the zenith dvb318 over component though nor my dct6200 over component. the sony 975 is running on DVI though.

local repair is comin to replace the b-board. looked through the grill and def dont have the right version.

so if I got this right... on my 36xbr800. they replcase the b-board with a new one but take the eprom from the old b-board and put it on the new b-board?

I want to make sure they know what they are doing.

does the service menu need to be changed after also ?

Yes, Yes:

Yes, they move the EPROM.

Yes, the service menu needs several changes. Make sure that the service person has the official Sony "flow chart".

I downloaded it just incase. :)

good thanks!

Good Luck Bruman.
They are coming to replace the B-board on my xbr910 next week. But EPROM is a new one on me (or I am just dense). Do you know if that goes for the 910 also? Is there a part that has to be removed from the old B board and placed in the new?

from, ross, an eagle in patriotland
(sorry, it's all about bloodlines)

whats with the username ?

oh, that is just an old pet hamster I adopted when I moved to Maine.
What does EPROM stand for?

--Ross

funny cause thats my last name. the first part. lol

that is funny, but should i be concerned about that EPROM, whatever that is?

they are suppose to swap it from the old board to the new board. I will mention it to the tech when he comes here.

ok...tech came and fixed my set. white line gone. he didnt do any changes in the service menu and I could not give him any reason to either. looked the same to me. maybe a little softer, just a tad but nothing sharpness didnt fix. hard to really say if at all. really the picture looked the same to me.

thanks to this thread!

Glad to hear it's fixed!

I am suprised no menu fixes had to be done. but there is no vert white line anymore.

hi all,

just a follow up to help anyone looking at the thread. service guy came over to fix my vertical bar, checked the date of my xrb 901 which was sept 2003, said it did not need a B-board (which I thought was the case), did the service menu changes and it is gone. Yes, the picture is a little darker despite tweaking the brightness, etc., but it is a very nice picture.

HOWEVER, the service manual he used, which was current, stated that it should be SHOF=2 in MOVIE mode so he insisted on it (nice guy but not willing to deviate from the company based on my disussion board advice).

Herein you will find advice to make SHOF=3.

Does anyone know if changing it to SHOF=3 (not in Sony Bulletin) would make a significant difference?

Thanks so much to all, Ross

To anyone who has a KV-34HS510,
I would like to know what id map table settings are supposed to be on my model. It would take about 500 words to explain why I did what I did but I did a 7 9 enter and 7 jump enter reset with my TV. I have the service manual. I had the vertical bar problem. I changed HDPT to 0. I have done a few of the tweaks discussed in this forum. My picture is better than ever but after the hard resets I have lost videos 5,6 & 7. I have cable and satellite. Satellite is in DVI(7) and DVD is in(component 6). I also have a connection to satellite in Video 5 (component)but don't use it. I get a " frozen" picture of a cable channel on 5,6 ,7. After the resets HDPT goes back to 1. When I change it to 0 I can get satellite back on the DVI but only if the signal is set to 1080i. After the resets the ID map table does not match the service manual's settings but changing those to the manual's settings does not make a difference.(except to get Wide mode ability back in user menu). I have twiddled with virtually every setting and nothing has brought the inputs back. I am ready to take it on the chin for about a $250 service where the eeprom is replaced. I don't know what controls the inputs but it seems that it would be the ID map tables. I don't understand why the service manual's settings do not do it but I can't bring myself to pay for the service just yet. If someone could post what their id map table's values are I would be grateful. If anyone knows any thing else to try I will give that a shot too as I have nothing to lose at this point.

I was having a shading problem on my initial XBR and had it replaced even though the HDTV was "window"-like. The new set wasn't quite as vibrant but there was little or no shading in the corners, so I was very happy...until ER and I noticed what at first looked like the reflection from a white police light; the white verticle line that crossess the screen every second or two! Rats! Has anyone called Sony about this yet? I hesitate to replace this set with another and have the same problem. I'll call Sony this morning and report back. Hopefully it's something that can be tweaked...as well as the picture. I'm surprised that there would be such a difference between two different sets of the same make and model.


Could you explain "Shading in corners please" I just purchased a Sharp model 32F543. The picture is pretty good but I notice in the left top corner a little shadow kind of grayish. Is this what you mean by shading? My wife say's she doesn't notice it and it doesn't bother her. But it irritates me very noticeable to me when there is a white background. What causes this?
Thanks

I recently discovered the scrolling vertical bar problem on my KV-34XBR800 when I hooked up an OTA receiver for HDTV in my area (finally after owning the set since December 2002). The set was manufactured in November 2002. I called Sony and they referred me to their authorized service shop in my area.

The local service guy has agreed to replaced the B board. However, he is insisting that he take my TV into their shop for the replacement. Based on my reading of older 2002/2003 posts in this thread I got the impression that the B board swap could be done right in your house without having to remove the TV. I am concerned about the potential for damage to the set. When I asked why it could not be done in my home, they said that an EPROM chip from the TV's original B board had to be removed and sautered onto the new B board. Does this sound reasonable? Maybe I am being a little paranoid, but I have no way of telling whether these guys know what they are doing.

Any thoughts or insight would be appreciated. And if any of you are still around, thanks to those of you who originally posted great information on the problem in 2002/2003. If I had not been able to show the service guy some of those older posts I am not sure that they would have known what to do about the problem.

After 2 attemps to fix the problem in my home, they took my set to the shop. i got it back in 1 week and it's been fine since.

I had the problem way back and they replaced the "B" board in my home with no problem. The service "Event ID" for this problem is E18728143.

HOWEVER, I checked out the Sony service site and see that there are later bulletins that indicate that if the problem is there for 720P that lots of work (rerouting stuff) needs to be done - and that looks like a shop repair. I'm sure that they would prefer NOT to take that 200+ lb monster into the shop! But their experience might now indicate it.

Thanks for the info. I will say this, after speaking with several different customer service/tech reps at Sony Canada about the problem with my set ... I will think long and hard before I ever buy another big ticket Sony item again. For the most part when there stuff works, its great. However, time and time again I have heard horror stories from people who have had to deal with Sony on warranty support and repairs. No one that I was able to speak to at Sony Canada could locate any information on the scrolling bar problem or the appropriate steps to fix it. Although it seems to be well documented enough in this forum. I indicated my concern that the local repair guys did not seem to know what they were talking about when they looked at the set in my house. (They actually asked me for a copy of jjingle's post that detailed the service bulletin fix, which I gladly provided to them).

I am putting my faith in the hands of Sony's authorized repair shop. I pray that it does not get damaged in transit or while it is being repaired. I also pray that the authorized repair shop knows what they are doing. When I pressed the Sony rep on what would happen if my set was damaged while it was in their authorized repair shop ... Sony could not give me a straight answer. Me: "Would Sony cover any damage caused by their authorized repair guys under my extended warranty?" Response: "That situation has never happened before." (yeah right) Me: "But if it did happen, would Sony cover it?" Response: "You would have to contact us if it happened. I cannot tell you if it would be covered or not" .... Hmmmm, who knows. I have a funny feeling it will be left to me to fight with the TV repair shop over it. I just hope that if the worse happens, the set is a complete write off so that I can start shopping for a nice 60 inch Panasonic.

Yes I have the dreaded scrolling line on my 34XBR800, I never noticed before because I never had an HD source until yesterday Oct.12 2006. Sadly Sony claims to know nothing of the problem, and can no longer access the service bulletin E18728143 at least I was able to get the memo here and I can email it to the Sony level 2 tech next Monday. I'm hoping somehow they will still fix it free as I had no access to HD until yesterday( I guess I will see. The repair guys they tried to pawn me off on wanted a crazy amount of money just to come out and look. which is what Sony tried to tell I need to do. 85 $ and 35 for the first 1/4 hour lol so $120 just to come out and view my vertical line LOL not. Bozos. Now I will email the Service bulletin they could not find at Sony to Sony maybe then they will help me.

I just checked their ESI database - it still is there.

Are you using DVI or Component Inputs. I found that sometimes the problem would show up just on DVI, and not on component.

I just checked their ESI database - it still is there.

Are you using DVI or Component Inputs. I found that sometimes the problem would show up just on DVI, and not on component.


I'm using DVI as my componets are busy LOL though I did test in through componet. shows the same. It does not appear in 720P mode of course and this TV upconverts all 720P signals to 1080i right? So really if they won't fix it I can get by on 720P I figure, but I want it fixed . How can I show them Their ESI data base? Is there some number I can give the Clueless Sony folks so the can see the service bulletin? I gave them the listed # in this thread for the service bulletin and they claimed nothing came up (

hey tightclaws

good luck with the Sony technician!

hey tightclaws

good luck with the Sony technician!

Thanks a lot, I really love the set honestly and have always loved Sony picture quality. Before this, I had a the original 32 XBR the first one that came out way back in 1989 it lasted until 2003 thats not bad. I just wish Sony had not given me the run around on this, I only had HD available recently. So I never noticed this problem. They really should take care of me I'm a loyal Sony customer. I suppose that means little these days.

I thought that in most parts of the country Sony used independent shops for warranty service. At least that is true around here. One of the local shops is pretty good. Perhaps the Sony people you talk to on the phone don't have access to the ESI database, but their authorized shops sure do.

But, of course, the real issue here is in getting Sony to cover this under warranty for a set that is clearly out of warranty. The local shops won't do it without assurance direct from Sony that they will be paid. The cost of the fix (there is a board replacement involved) is likely to approach the cost of a replacement set, so I'd doubt that they would really spring for it (though I have seen them do some odd things in the past). I do wish you the best, I think working the angle that they first denied that this Service Bulletin exists (and denying that there could be a problem that was their fault) will be useful in convinging them (your ideal solution would be to convince them to replace your set with a new 34XBR970 - but LOL).

I thought that in most parts of the country Sony used independent shops for warranty service. At least that is true around here. One of the local shops is pretty good. Perhaps the Sony people you talk to on the phone don't have access to the ESI database, but their authorized shops sure do.

But, of course, the real issue here is in getting Sony to cover this under warranty for a set that is clearly out of warranty. The local shops won't do it without assurance direct from Sony that they will be paid. The cost of the fix (there is a board replacement involved) is likely to approach the cost of a replacement set, so I'd doubt that they would really spring for it (though I have seen them do some odd things in the past). I do wish you the best, I think working the angle that they first denied that this Service Bulletin exists (and denying that there could be a problem that was their fault) will be useful in convinging them (your ideal solution would be to convince them to replace your set with a new 34XBR970 - but LOL).

LOL
A 970 I will count on that, heh heh. I guess I will see on Monday, I'm having doubts the guy will even call me back.

LOL
A 970 I will count on that, heh heh. I guess I will see on Monday, I'm having doubts the guy will even call me back.

Did you try the Service Menu setting changes described in this thread? If those work then you won't need a service call.

Did you try the Service Menu setting changes described in this thread? If those work then you won't need a service call.

Yes unfortunatly no luck, I knew it though as my TV falls under the does not have the right part Nov 2002 manufacture date.

Sony totally blew me off never called, I'm just not in the mood to call them back right now. I'm not happy with Sony service at all. after reading this entire threads, I guess I should not be surprised.

If Sony was the company most buyers hope it is, they would cover the mitigation of this design flaw under warranty. Instead, they give you the run around or brush off.

I call it mitigation because the "fix" only reroutes the 1080i signal around the MID processor. Part of the processing that gives the "Sony look" to all other formats is lost for 1080i.

Sony totally blew me off never called, I'm just not in the mood to call them back right now. I'm not happy with Sony service at all. after reading this entire threads, I guess I should not be surprised.

For what it's worth, when I compared my Sony KV40XBR800's video quality using the HDNet HDTV Test Pattern broadcast, I saw no noticable difference when my HD DVR was set to output 720p vs 1080i. And this Sony problem only happens at 1080i. So if your source can output 720p, you should be fine just using that resolution setting.

For what it's worth, when I compared my Sony KV40XBR800's video quality using the HDNet HDTV Test Pattern broadcast, I saw no noticable difference when my HD DVR was set to output 720p vs 1080i. And this Sony problem only happens at 1080i. So if your source can output 720p, you should be fine just using that resolution setting.

Yes thats what I'm doing since the TV upscales it anyway. I tried Sony Again and just gave me more run around. I was looking at a new SET by Sony but I think now after the poor service and lies I will go another direction. I don't care how good there set looks they refuse to back it up. I refuse to buy Sony products anymore.

I have a KV-32HS510 and I have it as well it happens with 1080i and 720p but not 480i/p

for some time I thought it was caused by the input source but I have noticed it with my XBOX 1 when using XBMC and also on the XBOX 360 when playing games as well as the PS2 when I play GT4 in 1080i mode

I am using a monster home theater power center for the "clean power" so I guess it must be the TV

I have a KV-32HS510 and I have it as well it happens with 1080i and 720p but not 480i/p

for some time I thought it was caused by the input source but I have noticed it with my XBOX 1 when using XBMC and also on the XBOX 360 when playing games as well as the PS2 when I play GT4 in 1080i mode

I am using a monster home theater power center for the "clean power" so I guess it must be the TV

Oh its the TV but don't expect anything from Sony on this. If your sets out of warranty forget it. YOu see it in 720P? I have seen it rarely in 720P its much less visable though. 1080i is the most visable. its tolarable in 720P. which upscales to 960i anyway.

yea I see it in 720p as well but it happens twice as fast which would be excepted since it is 60fps not 24 or 30 fps that 1080i is

am i the first person with the 970 who has had this problem? unfortunately my service menu isnt the same as the 800's so i cant use the fix on this thread. anyone have a clue?
thanks!

am i the first person with the 970 who has had this problem? unfortunately my service menu isnt the same as the 800's so i cant use the fix on this thread. anyone have a clue?
thanks!Yes. This problem was supposedly corrected with a design change for the HS420, XS955/XBR960 sets. A PLL circuit was added to the MID. I haven't seen any reports of the above sets exhibiting this issue and I'd be surprised if the 970 took a step backward in design.

Are you sure that the problem you are seeing is the same as discussed in this thread? Have you checked to see if you have a service menu item HDPT?

My HS510 exhibited this problem with a 3inch wide pinkish vertical bar that moved left to right across the screen once per second.

my roll bar goes right to left, only in 1080i and it is gray and seen in the blacks most often. very annoying! my service menu does not have hdpt in it either....

I would be very surprised if your problem is the same issue as this thread. No other 970 owner has reported it. Are all 1080i sources exhibiting this problem?

I would guess that you are seeing noise or interference. Maybe associated with your AC power. Are you using any type of power strip and what is it shared with? Try unplugging various components and/or bypassing the strip. Are your AC circuits relatively new or old?

raouliii, thats a good point. its gotta be the frequency of my AC power. ive been having some really dirty power lately. dipping in the lamps, etc. in chicago, sometimes COMed can really screwy...
thanks. thought i had a lemon for a moment.
unplugging the tv and taking everything else off the circuit seems to help quite a bit.

Im kinda chiming in late, but I also suffer from these scan lines. I have a sony kv-36hs500 and the picture on that thing in phenominal. I have just recently gotten a hdtv receiver and an upscaling dvd player, and the 1080i signal has these scan lines.

I already went into the service menu and did the hdpt thing but it did nothing but change the contrast of the picture a little bit, maybe flesh tones, but the scan lines were still there. Went into RF, DVI, Component, but still the scan lines were there. This is way out of warranty, so what am I to do?? Does sony know about this, will they come an fix this problem since it was obviously already there but I didn't know it until I got the HDTV equipment to display it?? From what I read they will have to replace a B board right?? If someone could recommend the best way of going about getting this fixed this I would greatly appreciate it.

Yes, Sony is well aware of the flaw and developed the service bulletin found earlier in this thread. You are correct in that if changing HDPT to 0 does not resolve the scrolling bar then a B board replacement is required. The reason for this is that the B-boards on the XBR800/HS500 series units are not populated with the switches required to implement the HD PassThrough. A B-board replacement will likely be fairly expensive and Sony appears to have set a precedent of not extending warranty coverage on this issue.

You might be happy with just feeding 720p to your set. It will add a conversion step and you may notice a little softer image but most owners report that 720p does not create the scrolling vertical bar.

Good Luck

Thank you for the quick response. Yes the 720p does work without giving any scan lines, but I can tell that it is softer then the 1080i output. So much so that I can hardly tell any diff. from the 720p and the 480p on the upconversion dvd player. But there is a diff. on the 1080i, it is sharper. I will call sony and see if they will do anything, though I highly doubt it. Thanks again.

It's been awhile since I participated in this thread, but yesterday I bought a memory stick for my XBR800, given that only sticks of 128 MB or less are allowed and I figured I had better buy one before they are no longer in stock.

While going through my documents looking for information about the file structure on the memory stick, I accidentally came across an item that had been posted on the AVS Forum about tweeking the parameter called SYSM from 3 down to 1 (or 0, which is like 1).

I decided to change my factory default value of 3 to 0 and found that I got a sharper image. It is not clear from different posts what exactly SYSM is related to. One post claims it is the video amplifier bandwidth control. Another post suggests it is like a trebble control in audio, with 3 being flat, and 0 being peaked at the high end. Another post suggests that SYSM has something to do with edge control, and that it is better to be left at 3, and if 0 is less blurry than 3, then the only reason is that the MID-5 table values have not yet been changed to 0, which according to the author, they should be.

Which brings me back to this thread in reference to forum members who like me have turned on the BYPASS mode in order to eliminate the dreaded scrolling vertical bar.

What I remember about placing my DA-4 chassis in BYPASS mode is that two major circuits (DRC and MID) are completely bypassed. These are digital processing circuits, and in bypass mode, the analog video signal as it exits the switcher goes directly to the CRT gun analog electronics. The video signal never gets converted to digital. My schematic diagram confirms this.

So if the post that suggests that SYSM left at 3 and MID-5 tables tweaked to 0, gives the best PQ, then I must assume that the author of that post was referring to a non-bypassed chassis where the MID circuit is active.

But for a bypassed chassis, perhaps changing the SYSM parameter from 3 to 0 will give a better result as in my case. I must admit that while doing some calibration in the past to fine tune my DVI link, I ended up pushing the sharpness to full on my normal user menu (not the service menu). I have since abandoned my DVI link when I moved my AV receiver 40 feet away from the XBR800, and had to go back to components. But I have left the sharpness at full.

My conclusion is that with components cables, and my cable box located 40 feet away fixed to 1080i, my sharpness at full on the user menu, and SYSM set to 0, I am getting a sharper image that if I leave SYSM at 3.

I feel as if I am seeing more detail but I can't say if this is because I have eliminated some blurring (softening) that was previously due to SYSM being at 3, or if by changing the value to 0, I have ended up boosting the signal in a way that exagerates (enhances?) something that I should not normally be seeing. Subjectively, it seems like an improvement to me.

I welcome any comments and I hope other DA-4 chassis owners in bypass mode might benefit from this report.

I prefers selecting SYSM at either 0 or 1 too. They seems to give out more detail than SYSM at 3. SYSM at 3 makes the image somewhat soft.

ok so I think I figured this out but i nead a pro to conform this

in 720p mode there is still a light bar but it happens twice as fast like at 60fps not 30fps like 1080i mode

I would guess this could be fixed by adjusting the Scanning Velocity Modulation for 1080i mode

you see on a CRT atleast these KV-xxHS/DRCxxx the 720p mode is the same as the 1080i mode if you look in the service menu it will say 1080i and 720p on the screen also 1080i and 1080i at the same time the 1080i in the top right corner is the current res of the screen and the other either 720p or 1080i is in the middle top of the screen is the current input

now I know 1080i is higher than 720p (some would say the opposite since 1080 is interlaced not progressive but that is a topic for a different section) in the ammount of lines but the CRT doesent care it makes anything that isnt full screen 480i/p into 1080i but for 720p it will make it 1080i and refresh it twice as fast

for 480p widescreen it will change to either FULL or 960i

so if you could make the SVM refresh like it does for 720p in 1080i mode than this would fix the problems and shouldnt lower the quality

I prefers selecting SYSM at either 0 or 1 too. They seems to give out more detail than SYSM at 3. SYSM at 3 makes the image somewhat soft.

With SYSM set at 0, I see more wrinkles and texture in the faces.

in 720p mode there is still a light bar but it happens twice as fast like at 60fps not 30fps like 1080i mode.......

........I would guess this could be fixed by adjusting the Scanning Velocity Modulation for 1080i mode so if you could make the SVM refresh like it does for 720p in 1080i mode than this would fix the problems and shouldn't lower the quality

For all members who have not read some of the initial posts, I will try to quickly explain the cause of scrolling and why I have never believed it possible to happen with a 720p fixed source going into a 1080i native resolution CRT.


First, I ask you to accept that the DRC/MID digital processors and memory in the Sony DA4 chassis run on a seperate fixed clock that is almost, but not quite at the 1080i scan rate of the source TV station.

Why is the memory output fixed at 1080i (and at times a slower 960i) and only 1080i/960i? Because this is the fastest scan rate of the final drive circuits of all Sony consumer CRT TVs.

Why is the (output of) memory not locked exactly to the scan rate of the input signal when the input signal from the TV station is also 1080i? One reason is that this processor has to be able to support PIP and that means with two incoming sources from different TV stations, each with its own slightly different 1080i scan rate, the digital processor has to be able to scan both images into one memory and then pull out a single composite frame. I think it was easier for Sony to set the output scan rate from memory completely independant from either of the two input rates, rather than tie it to one source and not the other.

The problem that causes the scrolling bar is that the CRT's flyback transformer, which runs at the slightly different memory output scan rate, can radiate its flyback pulse back into the low level input amplifiers on the motherboard. Even the DVI (HDMI) input signal, which is impervious to EMF radiation while it remains digital, gets converted into a vulnerable low level analog signal which can pick up the radiated flyback pulse. Everything which goes into this chassis (DVI,RF, Composite, S-Video, Components) gets converted into the lowest common denominator (analog RGBHV) before getting switched at the selector and converted to digital for the memory.

Once this flyback pulse gets mixed into the low level input signal, it superimposes onto the source frame which has a slightly different scan rate from the memory output rate. The vertical bar that scrolls across the screen does so with a cadence that represents the difference between the scan rates of the source video signal, and the fixed scan rate of the digital memory output.

Imagine that the scan rate of the 1080i source signal is 33003 hz (I forgot the exact number), and the fixed scan rate of the output of memory is 33000 hz, so you would see the bar go across the screen 3 times a second in this case. If the number was 32997 instead of 33003, the bar would go across the screen 3 times a second, but in the opposite direction

Why some chassis do this and others don't may have to do with whether the high voltage wires loop across the back side of the chassis a quarter inch to the right or to the left. It may be as simple as that in my opinion. There is some shielding around some circuits, but much of the motherboard is fairly open and exposed to absorbing the flyback pulse.

With a source signal coming in at 720P (which has a scan rate many thousands of hz faster than 1080i) and getting scanned into memory at that faster rate, the frame must still exit the memory at a much slower scan rate of 1080i. So even if the flyback pulse at the nominal 1080i rate gets superimposed back onto the input source signal of 720P rate, the difference in scan rates between these two is so great that the eye won't see this super fast moving bar.

How did Sony solve this scrolling bar problem? They turned their digital TV set into a glorified purely analog TV set. By using a maintenance function left in the firmware to help diagnose problems, Sony bypassed the digital memory and its independant clock using the HDPT parameter in the service menu.

When you change the HDPT parameter, an electronic gate switches on and the input video signal (analog RGBHV), just downstream of the selector but before the memory, is redirected straight to the analog CRT final drive amps and the flyback transformer locks perfectly onto the 1080i input signal scan rate. So even if the flyback pulse gets absorbed by the motherboard, this pulse is always hidden in the retrace, so you never see it on the screen as a still bar.


Incidently, the on-screen menu graphics are introduced by a local circuit in the CRT final analog drive section, just like in low cost analog TV sets which have no digital frame processing like DRC.

In bypassed sets, if the input signal becomes anything other than 1080i, the HDPT option is temporarily overridden and the digital memory is reactivated. Notice that when you choose any input other than a components or DVI/HDMI signal, the DRC button on the remote magically works.

If DRC is functionning with your STB outputting at 720P, then it means that the 720P is going into memory even if your chassis is configurred for bypass. Bypass only gets completely activated for 1080i input signals.

The down side of this solution, is that you have bypassed around (thrown away) a lot of expensive digital circuits (DRC, MID) which you have spent extra money to have added to an otherwise high quality, but purely analog TV set.

Flat panel displays will never have this problem because there is no high voltage flyback pulse, and even if there was one radiating in from an adjacent large analog CRT, the circuits in the better flat panels are all digital from HDMI entry to the final LCD pixel. In theory, analog inputs in flat panal displays could absorb radiation arriving from a CRT monitor located inches away and a bar could be visible.

If you are seeing a scrolling bar on a 720P input signal, I am wondering if the bar is in fact being generated upsteam in the STB due to a similar leakage between the front end and the back end of the STB's digital memory. The STB has no high voltage flyback transformer, but it still has to accept all input scan rates into its memory and output any desired scan rate to the display device. That opens the door to running the STB memory on a fixed clock that might be slightly different from the incoming 720P signal, particularly when PIP is supported.

If there is leakage at 720P and/or 1080i around the internal memory of the STB, then any consequential scrolling bar would show up in a downstream all digital flat panel display as much as in an analog CRT. This would most likely happen when the STB is tuned to an input signal at the same scan rate as the output scan rate to the monitor.

a couple of questions if you could mainly yes or no will do

1. can this be fixed with some shielding somewhere in the tv and if so where?

2. you mention that in the service menu there is the HDPT option but this bypasses good hardware well what if I have a good scaler like the one in my Pioneer Eliete 84txsi by Faroudja will that do the job for me?

3. effectly what will happen if I turn off the HDPT? (0=off 1=on)?

4. so 960i does this mean the the tv is 960 vertical or horz I though the tv was 960x540p res 1/2 or 1920x1080i?

5. not really a question but yes I do see it on 720p mode it is just at least 2 or 3 times faster it is hard to see but then I was looking at the screen calibration option on XBMC on my XBOX it has 2 corner markers and a sibtitle bar and a square circle for aspect fix well the corner marker on the bottom right looked like it was pulsing like it did in 1080i mode but way faster so I put DVE in my DVD player and looked at the bunch of little squares and a circle in the middle and I could see it then as well. after that I could see all the time in 720p mode and even noticed it on my xbox 360 playing splinter cell in teh dark places also I have a friend who thinks with a computer and a spyder TV like device or something more professional it would be noticeable on 480p widescreen when it says 960i on the TV it is just way to fast to see

1. can this be fixed with some shielding somewhere in the tv and if so where?

I don't know the exact path that the radiation follows and if you place metal shielding over all the exposed circuits currently not covered, that might trap heat and shorten the lifespan of the chassis.

I also don't recommend that you take the back cover off and jiggle the HV wire which carries 36000 volts while watching for an improvement on the screen. You might have to jiggle the other wires in the flyback transformer area which carry several hundred volts. It's a bit like walking around an empty theatre with a sheet of plywood on your back wondering where you must go to get the echo in the hall to change. That's how unpredictable this approach would be.



2. you mention that in the service menu there is the HDPT option but this bypasses good hardware. well what if I have a good scaler like the one in my Pioneer Elite 84txsi by Faroudja will that do the job for me?

With your AV receiver having that chip, it will do a better job of upconverting lo rez to HD than the Sony monitor. But the Sony monitor has a lot of other features in the digital section besides scaling, like DRC and VM edge enhancement, which would be lost in bypass mode. I don't miss them, I'm just sorry I had to pay for these electronics which I no longer use.



3. effectly what will happen if I turn off the HDPT? (0=off 1=on)?

When you activate the bypass by setting HDPT to 0, the selected source signal, which is always analog, gets sent directly to the CRT final drive electronics which are all analog as well. Doing so means that the horizontal scanning frequency of the display tube is perfectly locked to the horizontal pulses of the input video source signal. This only happens if the source signal is 1080i (and 480p as well I believe). If the source signal is not 1080i (or 480p), it gets converted to digital, then gets scanned into memory, then gets enhanced by different algorithns, and finally gets converted back into analog where it goes to the same CRT final drive electronics, only this time with a slightly different horizontal scanning frequency compared to the original video signal. Not activating HDPT means all signals go into memory in the same manner, including the 1080i (and 480P) signal, and exit memory with a slightly different scanning frequency that can create a bar in some sets.


4. so 960i, does this mean that the tv is 960 vertical? I though the tv was 960x540p res 1/2 or 1920x1080i?

The set does not react any differently to 960i or 480p. These two signals look exactly the same in that there are the same number of horizontal and vertical pulses every second. The only difference is that the odd numbered frames of the 960i signal are slightly offset in position so you have an interlaced effect. Otherwise the scanning frequency is identical.

The TV is not 960x540p or 1920x1080i. These are measurements that apply to fixed panel sets. The Sony DA4 chassis is an analog chassis and works just like any analog SD TV set. The CRT gun(s) simply sweep back and forth and up and down in sync with the horizontal and vertical pulses in the analog input signal.

If there are 540 or so horizontal pulses in the input signal for every single vertical pulse occurring every 1/60th of a second apart, then you get 1080 interlaced lines per 1/30th of a second (1080i).
If there are 480 or so horizontal pulses in the input signal for every single vertical pulse occurring every 1/60th of a second apart, then you get 960 interlaced lines per 1/30th of a second (480P).
If there are 480 or so horizontal pulses in the input signal for every single vertical pulse occurring every 1/60th of a second apart, but the alternate group of 480 pulses are all slightly delayed, then you get 960 non-interlaced lines per 1/30th of a second (960i).

The horizontal scanning frequency in the first case is not all that different from those of the last two cases which are identical. The Sony DA4 chassis can't run the flyback transformer at the scanning frequency that corresponds to 720P. That would cost too much to make it do so.

It is in the recording studio that the precise timing between the varius pulses is determined in order to correspond to whether the camera was shooting in 1080i, 960i, or 480p.


5. not really a question but yes I do see (the bar) on 720p mode.
It is just at least 2 or 3 times faster.
It is hard to see but then I was looking at the screen calibration option on XBMC on my XBOX.
It has 2 corner markers and a subtitle bar and a square circle for aspect fix.
Well the corner marker on the bottom right looked like it was pulsing like it did in 1080i mode, but way faster so I put DVE in my DVD player and looked at the bunch of little squares and a circle in the middle and I could see it then as well.
After that, I could see all the time in 720p mode and even noticed it on my xbox 360 playing splinter cell in the dark places.
Also I have a friend who thinks that with a computer and a spyder TV like device or something more professional, it would be noticeable on 480p widescreen when it says 960i on the TV.
It is just way to fast to see

I don't have a gaming device so I am not familiar with the methods of calibration, but please keep in mind that disks like DVE purposely pulse some test patterns to highlight differences between certain graphics so you can tune to minimize them.

When there is a slow moving vertical bar in any particular format, it just means that the scanning frequency of the frame as it exits the rescaler of any device has been slightly changed from the scanning frequency of the frame as it enters the rescaler of the device. Normally leakage takes place between analog circuits, as digital circuits are much more tolerent to radiation.

Your XBOX has to convert the digital frame coming out of the rescaler memory into analog in order to feed via a components cable. But is the reverse true on the entry side of the XBOX rescaler, like it is true in the Sony monitor? - are all the signals which enter the XBOX rescaler memory in analog form?

This would happen if the XBOX was divided in two sections. The front section generates the game image in digital and then converts it into analog where it can be selected against other analog video sources presented to the selector, like an internal DVD player (analog output) or an external VCR (analog signal). Once the analog source is selected, then it must be rescaled to the desired scan rate for the monitor - 480i,480p,1080i, or 720p. That rescaling of one analog format to another opens the door for leakage to take place.

Just because the horizontal scanning frequency of 720p is 33% faster than 1080i, this does not mean that the leakage error (speed of the scrolling bar) is going to increase by 33% when in 720P compared to 1080i. The speed of the scrolling bar will depend on what the fixed memory cycle clock speed for the XBOX rescaler is when 720P is chosen versus 1080i.

Does the uprezer of your receiver also shuttle 1080i and 720p through the same circuits as lo rez? If so, it too might be introducing the bar. Try patching the XBOX at 720P directly into the Sony monitor. If the bar goes away, it is not the fault of the XBOX or monitor. If the bar is still there, I would suspect the XBOX more than the Sony monitor.

Also, try outputting from the XBOX at 1080i into the receiver and outputting from the receiver into the monitor at 720p. If the bar disappears in this case, but was present when the XBOX ran at 720P, then it is the Pioneer which is creating the bar.

If you are going to do the HDPT bypass thing only because you are convinced that the bar is being generated by the Sony monitor, then if the bar goes away due to HDPT, then you will also have to change the other parameters outlined in the service bulletin which is posted earlier in this thread in order to fine tune the PQ changed by HDPT.

Be warned that if you press the wrong button on the remote that forces the factory custom tuning of your set to be replaced by default values, you will destroy your TV, as no backup copy of your original data is kept on board the Sony monitor's computer. There is one report of an owner having done this and how he had to scramble to try to adjust the hundreds of parameters after the event to try to get back a modest image.

This is why I originally had my set's HDPT value changed by the technician while under warranty.

P.S> In spite of all that I've written to help you get 720P to work without a bar, I feel that you will get better results running your monitor at 1080i, and if you have a bar at 1080i that requires the bypass HDPT patch, then I think your PQ will be better if you do the patch and stay at 1080i for as long as you use your Sony CRT monitor.

Montreal,
I take it that you work for Sony?


nx211

Montreal,
I take it that you work for Sony?


I'm a retired systems analyst who worked with real time industrial automation computers (almost robots) most of my life.

In the mid 1970's, I bought an electronics kit from SWTP called the TV Typewriter, a large circuit board that received ASCII characters from a RS232 port and converted them into text to be carried by an analog video signal that could be sent to an ordinary TV set. Combined with a keyboard and a modem, I could communicate from home, like a teletype, with the central computer where I worked, perfect for afterhour's overtime.

This design explained how the sync pulses of a Black and White video signal are arranged with respect to their timing, width, and voltage level.

Little has changed in 30 years except today, instead of chroma being embeded in the luma signal (composite), luma and chroma are merged into YPrPb for HD components. But the original horizontal and vertical sync pulses are still there, only today for HD, they are piggybacked into the Y cable of the YPrPb components set.

The Sony monitor separates the YPrPb components into raw RGBHV and routes these 5 signals around the DA4 chassis. On the schematic, it can be seen exactly where these signals go when bypass mode is activated under the orders of the central computer.

A scrolling vertical bar is simply a ghost signal of the flyback transformer pulse picked up by the poorly shielded input circuits. Forty years ago, we used to see a lot of ghosting of a whole frame which could roll on one or both axis. This would happen if you tuned to a distant weak TV station using a roof antenna and there was a powerful local station located a channel space away. The notch filter in the tuner could not prevent the strong local station signal from getting superimposed into the signal from the distant weak station. Since both station signals were running on independant clocks which determined each station's horizontal and vertical sweep frequency, the superimposed image would scroll on one or both axis at a speed equal to the difference in scan rates between the two stations.

I know of no easy way that Sony could have prevented this from happening, although I read above that they have added PLL circuits to recent models to solve this problem.

The moral of this experience is that high voltage analog electronics don't mix well with digital circuits which need to have total freedom to operate.

I'm a retired systems analyst who worked with real time industrial automation computers (almost robots) most of my life...
...I know of no easy way that Sony could have prevented this from happening, although I read above that they have added PLL circuits to recent models to solve this problem...

...How did Sony solve this scrolling bar problem? They turned their digital TV set into a glorified purely analog TV set. By using a maintenance function left in the firmware to help diagnose problems, Sony bypassed the digital memory and its independant clock using the HDPT parameter in the service menu...

The down side of this solution, is that you have bypassed around (thrown away) a lot of expensive digital circuits (DRC, MID) which you have spent extra money to have added to an otherwise high quality, but purely analog TV set.


Well, that makes a lot more sense to me now than previously thinking you were a Sony design engineer. I was wondering what a Sony engineering employee was up to by publicly disclosing a less than ideal work-around solution to a known issue.

I remember a few years back in the 34XBR910 thread that some people were seeing the scrolling bar issue with that first generation SuperFine Pitch Aperture Grill.


nx211

ok I am sure it is not the Pioneer I have had this problem way before I got it and I got it to maybe fix this problem

if I put the XBOX 360 to 1080i an put the Pioneer to 720p it is still there just 2 or 3 times faster than 1080i is like it does for 720p mode

if I put the Pioneer to 1080i and have nothing on the screen just blank black then it still does it it will do it so long as there is a cable pluged into the TV using the Component or DVI/HDMI

ok this is way out there but is there a way to hook directly into the CRT and bypass all circuits like a hack to hook up to the TUBE itself like the actual RGBHV on the color guns I dont know the real termonlogy

...............ok this is way out there but is there a way to hook directly into the CRT and bypass all circuits like a hack to hook up to the TUBE itself like the actual RGBHV on the color guns I dont know the real termonlogyThat is basically what HDPT = 0 does. It means High Definition Pass Through but only affects 1080i inputs. In this mode, a 1080i signal bypasses the Multi Image Driver(MID) chip. The Digital Reality Creation(DRC) chip is already bypassed for all non-480i sources by design.

I've read posts of seeing the bar on 720p inputs. I don't see the bar on 720p inputs but I generally leave my HD inputs set to 1080i and let it bypass, on my 34HS510. I still see it in PIP mode because the MID is used for PIP regardless of the HDPT setting.

I remember a few years back in the 34XBR910 thread that some people were seeing the scrolling bar issue with that first generation SuperFine Pitch Aperture Grill.

Mine is a XBR800 which unfortunately for me was the last set before the Superfine Pitch Aperure Grill arrived. I never imagined that the next set produced would have a leap of 65% in horizontal resolution. I had expected such an improvement to have taken several years so my set would not have been left behind so quickly.

I don't know which set triggered the first report of a scrolling bar, but 5 years ago, while a growing number of people had bought these sets because they could make 480i and 480P look interesting, very few people had 1080i subscriptions.

As more owners began to acquire HD STBs, more reports of scrolling bars began to get posted.

I don't think Sony saw this problem coming. In fact the sets that were being introduced in North America had already been in the Japanese market for up to 5 years. Perhaps the reason the scrolling bar was not being seen in Japan in the late 1990s is that their HD scan rate was slightly different from ours and that may have accounted for fewer reports over there.

Another factor that agravated the scrolling bar issue in North America is that the lower the 1080i signal voltage level, the more the signal had to be amplified by the front end electronics of the set and the more the level of the ghost signal bar was raised.

Since early adaptors of Sony HD sets in North America were using OTA antennas as sources, and these incoming signals were often weak and needing amplification by the TV set, this boosted the ghost signal from the flyback transformer.

if I put the XBOX 360 to 1080i and put the Pioneer to 720p, it is still there just 2 or 3 times faster than 1080i is like it does for 720p mode

if I put the Pioneer to 1080i and have nothing on the screen just blank black then it still does it it will do it so long as there is a cable pluged into the TV using the Component or DVI/HDMI.


I agree with you now that it is not the receiver.

To see a scrolling bar at 720P, we would have to be talking about a bar which in reality is scrolling at a rate of 11000 or so times across the screen per second.

It is a bit like shining a strobe light on a fast spinning object. Normally you don't see the object frozen, but as you begin to tune the frequency of the strobe light, the fast spinning object appears to slow down until you begin to see the definition of it.

With the TV running at its native scan rate, the frames from the rescaled 720P signal are flashing out to you at a rate of 30 times a second. But the bar is scrolling at a rate equal to the difference between 33000 hz and 44000 hz, a difference of 11000 hz.

So if the bar is scrolling across the screen at 11000 times a second, if that number 11000 can be evenly divided by 30, then it might appear to be barely moving, which would allow you to see it. 11000 can't be evenly divided, but another number close by can be. If the crystal clock on your set just happened to generate that perfect match, then you would get the bar.

On another owner's set, the number might not match up that well and their bar at 720p would not be visible.

In other words, if you could get the rescaler clock of your XBOX to run at say one percent faster for 720P, that might result in your bar no longer being visible, even if it is still moving quickly across your screen.


ok this is way out there, but is there a way to hook directly into the CRT and bypass all circuits, like a hack to hook up to the TUBE itself, like the actual RGBHV on the color guns I dont know the real termonlogy

With your set in BYPASS mode and your signal in 1080i, that is exactly what is already happening. If you tried to force the same route for your 720P signal by hacking the chips to ignore the TV set's computer, then the tube would not operate because the flyback transformer is not designed to run at the 44 kilohertz rate required for 720P. That is why sets which support native 720P signals are so much more expensive than sets that run at the slower 1080i.

And the video bandwidth at the CRT level electronics has to be higher to support the 720P signal compared to the 1080i signal, about 25% higher.

The digital processors that rescale 720P to 1080i however have no problem handling the higher bandwidth of the 720P signal, but they don't cost as much as the high voltage electronics located just behind the TUBE.

I've read posts of seeing the bar on 720p inputs. I don't see the bar on 720p inputs but I generally leave my HD inputs set to 1080i and let it bypass, on my 34HS510. I still see it in PIP mode because the MID is used for PIP regardless of the HDPT setting.

For the reasons I outlined in the previous post, the 720P signal can never be allowed to go directly to the CRT gun electronics, even with the set patched for BYPASS mode. The CRT electronics cannot handle the 44 kilohertz horizontal scanning frequency of the 720P signal.

Most people never see a bar scrolling at 720P because in fact the bar is scrolling at about 11 kilohertz and to see it, that high number would have to be evenly divided by 30 frames a second, where 30 is the frame rate of the native resolution of the Sony TV.

However for a 1080i signal, there is really only a difference in scan frequencies of about 1 to 3 and not 11000 as in the case of 720P, so if the ghost signal is strong enough to be seen, then the rate at which the bar scrolls across the screen is very slow, 1 to 3 times a second.

I defently see it in 720p 2 or 3 times as fast

I have turned the HDPT off and fixed the problem but the picture looks not so good is this fixable with some sorta external scaler that has birghtness, contrast, tint, sharpness, ect. ect. in it like this http://www.spcomms.com/videoscalerelite/ or something like it

[QUOTE=montreal]For the reasons I outlined in the previous post, the 720P signal can never be allowed to go directly to the CRT gun electronics, even with the set patched for BYPASS mode. The CRT electronics cannot handle the 44 kilohertz horizontal scanning frequency of the 720P signal.

does this mean that the display cant really do 720p natively?

I have a CRT computer display that I have turned up all the way to 3200x2400 is there a large CRT display that can do this like atleast 30"

I have used the 1080p option on this CRT and it works fine is the same reason why the TV cant do 720p the same as 1080p?

also I should note that I can see this problem no matter what the input is so long as it is 720p or 1080i I can see it if it is from my PC my MacMini my XBOX 1 my XBOX 360 my oppo upconvert DVD player and my cable and satelite boxes and I can see it from the component and DVI only the only thing that I havent seen this on is my PS2 and GT4 there is a place in the menu to set it to 1080i but it is only for the races not the menu's but I dont see it I see a different thing it is the lines but way faster and not right to left kinda like bottom left to top right on a angle sorta looks like the "rainbow effect" on DLP's

I have turned the HDPT off and that fixed the problem but the picture looks not so good.
is this fixable with some sorta external scaler that has birghtness, contrast, tint, sharpness, ect. ect. in it like this http://www.spcomms.com/videoscalerelite/ or something like it?

Turning off HDPT for an input signal in 720P should not have made any bar disappear, as the input signal still has to go into and out of the digital memory, and by doing so, the ghost of the flyback transformer pulse at 33000 hz will still get superimposed on the 720P input signal which has a scan rate of 44000 hz.

For the bar to have disappeared when you set HDPT to zero, there are three possible explanations:

1) Contrary to what everyone believes, the CRT drive electronics of the Sony DA4 chassis really do support 720P scan rates along with 1080i scan rates when they are fed with such signals in bypass mode. If this is true, if you do the other SB tweaks, you might improve your PQ.
2) Your changing of HDPT reduced the brightness/contrast of your 720P input signal as it got rescaled in the otherwise ususal manner and you no longer see the bar. Doing additional tweaks inside and outside the set might get your PQ back, but also might make the bar visible again by boosting its voltage level so it shows on the screen.
3) Your changing of HDPT altered ever so slightly the scan rate of your rescaled 720P as it exits the rescaler and that slight difference in frequency would have changed the strobiscopic effect that previously made the very fast moving bar appear to be moving slowly enough to be noticed.

For the reasons I outlined in the previous post, the 720P signal can never be allowed to go directly to the CRT gun electronics, even with the set patched for BYPASS mode. The CRT electronics cannot handle the 44 kilohertz horizontal scanning frequency of the 720P signal.

does this mean that the display cant really do 720p natively?

Exactly, or that is what everyone has come to believe, which is definetely true when the set is not bypasses, but you may be the first forum member to run their set in bypass mode with a 720P signal, and who knows if in fact you are actually getting 720P sent directly to the CRT tube when HDPT is set to 0?

I still get TWINVIEW in my bypassed set with a 1080i input, so the computer switches on and off the bypass as it feels appropriate.

Just because you still get TWINVIEW with a 720P input signal may not exclude the possibility that this signal may indeed get routed to the CRT tube at 720P in bypass mode when TWINVIEW is off. To know for sure what frequency (33000 or 44000) your flyback transformer is operating at in bypass with a 720P signal, you would have to hookup an instrument that would measure the scan rate directly or indirectly, something only an electronics expert could do.


I have a CRT computer display that I have turned up all the way to 3200x2400.
is there a large CRT display that can do this like at least 30?

I have used the 1080p option on this CRT and it works fine is the same reason. why can't the TV do 720p the same as 1080i (s.i.c.)?

Monitors are built with better electronics compared to TV sets targetted for homes. There is an exception, the MONOVISION TV which supports 720P natively. Check it out on the web.

also I should note that I can see this problem no matter what the input is so long as it is 720p or 1080i.
I can see it if it is from my PC, my MacMini, my XBOX 1, my XBOX 360, my oppo upconvert DVD player, and my cable and satelite boxes, and I can see it from the component and DVI only.
the only thing that I havent seen this on is my PS2 and GT4 .
there is a place in the menu to set it to 1080i but it is only for the races not the menu's but I dont see it.
I see a different thing.
it is the lines but way faster and not right to left kinda like bottom, left to top right on a angle sorta looks like the "rainbow effect" on DLP's

You claim to have many sources which are feeding your TV set a signal at 720P and you say that you have this scrolling bar with each of them. I would expect that the speed that the bar moves to be slightly different with each device because all the clocks in these devices run from different crystals and I would expect that no two crystals are perfectly identical, although the difference in resonant frequency between each crystal might be 0.0001%. Given that the SONY TV might magnify this diference by 11000, I can't say if that would significantly alter the speed of the bar enough for you to say this device scrolls slightly faster than that device at 720P.

I have turned the HDPT off and fixed the problem but the picture looks not so good is this fixable with some sorta external scaler that has birghtness, contrast, tint, sharpness, ect. ect...........
does this mean that the display cant really do 720p natively?
...........The DA-4 chassis can't do 720p natively. The Sony vertical bar countermeasures notice published in this thread has a number of additional service menu adjustments that should be made along with HDPT=0. These changes are an attempt to adjust the passthrough signal, without using the MID, to a visual quality more consistent with HDPT=1.

BTW, I have checked the horizontal scan frequency of my HS510, with an o'scope, in all supported input resolutions, and found that it is always the same. This was done with HDPT=0.

I have checked the horizontal scan frequency of my HS510, with an o'scope, in all supported input resolutions, and found that it is always the same. This was done with HDPT=0.

Once I was aware of the BYPASS patch and in particular, the precise 2 selector chips which receive the same signal from the CPU to connect the CRT final drive with the source input signal rather than the output of the MID processor, I have always wondered if 480P, with its scan frequency very close to that of 1080i, was also allowed to be bypassed, although 480P was never imputed to generate a bar.

I was even prepared, once my guaranty was expired, to solder a LED to this gate to see when bypass was actually being switched on.

With your testimony, which I trust, you have saved me the pain of opening up my set to solve this mystery.

The other detection method I was considering was for me to put a transistor radio near the back of the TV set tuned in between channels on the AM dial and listen for a whining sound being generated by the flyback transformer. If the pitch of this whine was to have shifted slightly when going from 1080i to 480P, then that would have told me that 480P was bypassed as well.

I believe that the horizontal scan at 480P is about 89% of 1080i, so the pitch in the radio would have had a detectable decrease to it had 480P been sent to the flyback transformer.

We are still left to explain why leftkidney's TV stopped displaying the bar when he activated the bypass for his 720P source, apart for the two theoretical reasons I proposed in a previous post.

I do see it on many sources but it is the same all the time just like the 1080i one no matter what the source is it has the same pattern, but I think you are right it is at different speeds but I cant tell since it is only slightly different

if I could I would video the bar in 720p mode but I dont think it will show up on a video of the screen I dont have a high quality camera

but yea it has stoped and although I am not so pleased with the picture quality after the HDPT=0 option but I will try to live with it and calibrate it the best I can it is much better than the bar of light it was like someone left the lid on a copier open and ran it not as bright but just like that

on a side note I want to get a new TV probly a CRT and I want a 16x9 one are the newer sony CRT tv's having this problem

........but yea it has stoped and although I am not so pleased with the picture quality after the HDPT=0 option but I will try to live with it and calibrate it the best I can it is much better than the bar of light it was like someone left the lid on a copier open and ran it not as bright but just like that

on a side note I want to get a new TV probly a CRT and I want a 16x9 one are the newer sony CRT tv's having this problemHave you tried implementing all of the service menu changes recommended in the Sony service bulletin concerning this problem? My HS510 looks very good with HDPT=0.

Starting with the XBR960/XS955 a phase locked loop (PLL) circuit appears to have been added to the DA-4 chassis to resolve this problem.

I have a question there is a option in the service menu called IDSW it changes the ZOOM MODES

it is on 0 it is 0-7 and if I change it I can make the input change from what ever it is to any one including 1080i

is it changing it to 1080i and upscaling it?

Well, that makes a lot more sense to me now than previously thinking you were a Sony design engineer. I was wondering what a Sony engineering employee was up to by publicly disclosing a less than ideal work-around solution to a known issue.

I remember a few years back in the 34XBR910 thread that some people were seeing the scrolling bar issue with that first generation SuperFine Pitch Aperture Grill.


nx211

Well after 4 years of not using my DVI connection I have finally come accross this problem. Sony is no help at all.

I am obviously out of warranty and was wondering if anybody has tried to make SONY responsible for these defective sets?

Starting with the XBR960/XS955 a phase locked loop (PLL) circuit appears to have been added to the DA-4 chassis to resolve this problem.

Using a PLL to force the native scan frequency to lock onto the 1080i input signal's scan frequency is an excellent way to solve this problem.

When PIP is turned on for two 1080i inputs, the computer will have to decide which of the two signals will become the reference for the final output.

Perhaps the computer will lock onto the signal associated with the larger of the two images in the PIP, so that if there is a scrolling bar, it will accompany the smaller of the two images and be less noticable.

To date, I do not recall anyone reporting ever seeing a scrolling bar while PIP was active. In theory, a scrolling bar has as much of a chance of being visible in PIP as in non-PIP.

Well after 4 years of not using my DVI connection I have finally come accross this problem. Sony is no help at all.

I am obviously out of warranty and was wondering if anybody has tried to make SONY responsible for these defective sets?

It sounds like you were using components without a bar prior to switching to DVI.

The sad news about DVI on the DA4 chassis and on some early generation Sony flat panel displays, is that the DVI decoding (de-encrypting) chip delivers the signal as an analog one so that it has the same form as all the other signal sources entering this chassis from the outside.

Could this same signal have been left in a pure digital form for direct delivery to the digital processors, as in the latest Bravia designs, then no leakage would have occurred.

This makes your DVI's analog product just as vulnerable as the other 1080i components sources to picking up the ghost bar radiated by the flyback transformer.

I'm not sure why you did not get the bar with components, but that might have been due to your STB upstream sending a strong 1080i signal which masked better the ghost bar which was leaking into the signal path.

Looks like you are now a good candidate for the HDPT patch.

Well after 4 years of not using my DVI connection I have finally come accross this problem. Sony is no help at all.

I am obviously out of warranty and was wondering if anybody has tried to make SONY responsible for these defective sets?

My 40" Sony 40XBR is also 4 years old, but I have yet to even hook up the DVI. Now you've got me curious, but to tell you the truth the component inputs work perfectly w/outstanding PQ that I don't think will improve w/a DVI.

My 40" Sony 40XBR is also 4 years old, but I have yet to even hook up the DVI. Now you've got me curious, but to tell you the truth the component inputs work perfectly w/outstanding PQ that I don't think will improve w/a DVI.


Yes, but I needed to start using the DVI because the other component inputs were being used. (And also because I paid for it) Actually on my set the bar is somewhat noticable on the the component inputs also , but not too bad.


Just can not believe SONY has gotten away with this .

It sounds like you were using components without a bar prior to switching to DVI.

The sad news about DVI on the DA4 chassis and on some early generation Sony flat panel displays, is that the DVI decoding (de-encrypting) chip delivers the signal as an analog one so that it has the same form as all the other signal sources entering this chassis from the outside.

Could this same signal have been left in a pure digital form for direct delivery to the digital processors, as in the latest Bravia designs, then no leakage would have occurred.

This makes your DVI's analog product just as vulnerable as the other 1080i components sources to picking up the ghost bar radiated by the flyback transformer.

I'm not sure why you did not get the bar with components, but that might have been due to your STB upstream sending a strong 1080i signal which masked better the ghost bar which was leaking into the signal path.

Looks like you are now a good candidate for the HDPT patch.

Montreal thanks for the reply. I have read most of your posts and can see that you are very knowlegable . My head is spinning with this thread and was wondering if you had the patch procedure to post. Mine was manufactured in DEC 2002.

Thanks

My 40" Sony 40XBR is also 4 years old, but I have yet to even hook up the DVI. Now you've got me curious, but to tell you the truth the component inputs work perfectly w/outstanding PQ that I don't think will improve w/a DVI.

It is in your interest to make sure over the long term that your DVI (HDMI) works and continues to work inspite of what your STB supplier might do to your STB firmware through periodic downloaded upgrades in the future. The last thing you want is for your supplier to remove your display from the list of authorized devices.

The reason is that there is a long held suspicion amongst many forum members that eventually HD movies being broadcast to STBs will be accompanied by broadcast flags to force the STB to downrez the components output to prevent you from streaming HD analog signals into your computer for evential copying.

Changing the entry to your 40XBR from components to DVI may result, as it did last year for me, in a slight loss in brightness, which forced me to recalibrate the brightness and contrast controls to compensate.

I recently moved my cable STB from 6 feet away from the TV set to 40 feet away, and that forced me to use RG6 components cables.

As the XBR is an analog TV, somewhere the MPEG formatted signal arriving from the dish or cable, has to be converted into analog. Can the STB do a better job at this compared to the DVI chip in your TV? Does your components cables between the STB erode your analog signal because it is too long or poorly shielded? The answers to these questions might better suggest if a DVI link with the STB is a better route than the components cable.

But as I mentioned above, sooner or later we may be all pushed to get our old DVI inputs up and running and it will be good to know that they can take over anytime.

Last week I changed my SYSM parameter from 3 to 0 and that has resulted in the "skin texture" of actors' faces on the screen being enhanced. I cannot say if this represents a real increase in PQ or simply an exageration, but the net illusion is impressive to me.

I ran my STB in DVI for the last year and I don't recall ever getting this much crispness. I believe that with the DVI signal visible on the screen, the SYSM parameter can likewise be tuned from 3 to 0, and that may help you if you permenantly change from components to DVI.

was wondering if you had the patch procedure to post.

See post number 277 in this thread.

It remains a good example of what to do.

Hunt around on the web for instructions to get into the SM and using the three pairs of navigation buttons (1-4, 2-5, and 3-6), and how to periodically WRITE (save) your chosen value.

Avoid pressing the wrong key(s) that erases your unreplaceable database, as happened accidentially to one member.

Of course, if you don't have the proper B board, then changing HDPT from 1 to 0 will not make the bar disappear for 1080i. Once you have changed and saved HDPT in the SM, get out of SM and go check for the bar on a 1080i input. If it has disappeared, you can go back into SM and complete the rest of the tweaks.

Remember to change HDPT only while tuned to a station coming in through your RF coax entry on the back of the TV.

Good luck.

While reading earlier posts today, I am reminded by an Andy64 post that the horizontal scan rate for 720P and 1080i is closer to 48.5 and 34 kilohertz respectively, with the difference being close to 15 kilohertz.

Not only are there 720 lines transmitted per frame, but there are also a number of empty lines that mark time between frames, during the retrace periods. Once these empty lines are counted, the actual scan frequency is 12% higher than I originally calculated.

See post number 277 in this thread.

It remains a good example of what to do.

Hunt around on the web for instructions to get into the SM and using the three pairs of navigation buttons (1-4, 2-5, and 3-6), and how to periodically WRITE (save) your chosen value.

Avoid pressing the wrong key(s) that erases your unreplaceable database, as happened accidentially to one member.

Of course, if you don't have the proper B board, then changing HDPT from 1 to 0 will not make the bar disappear for 1080i. Once you have changed and saved HDPT in the SM, get out of SM and go check for the bar on a 1080i input. If it has disappeared, you can go back into SM and complete the rest of the tweaks.

Remember to change HDPT only while tuned to a station coming in through your RF coax entry on the back of the TV.

Good luck.


Thanks

Appreciate your help!

joe

Thanks

Appreciate your help!

joe

see the following link for a primer on SM. It's for early generation XBR TV sets.

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/sonyadj.html


Missing in this document is reference to [2] and [5], which allows you to move up and down a full group of items at a time, like a coarse select, with [1] and [4] being a fine select to the individual items within the group. You can still navigate to everywhere using only [1] and [4], but it takes longer.

Some tweaks call for changing video mode (pro, cinema, etc.) before changing parameters. You need not exit the SM prior to changing video mode. You can do that at the same time you are in the SM, but you must save each item as you change it's value, before changing video modes.

At all costs avoid using any of the following sequences:

[8][ENTER]
[0][ENTER]
[7][JUMP][ENTER]
[7][9][ENTER]
which will permenantly screw up your set.

If you get lost, unplug the TV set and start over by rechecking for values you might have accidentially changed.

To have a better idea of the order that the groups and their individual items are layed out, consult any of the spreadsheets published in the threads on fine tuning the XBR800, XBR900, etc.

Print out the spreadsheet and mark all values that you change including the original value you found on your screen, because the values in the published spreadsheet may be different from your TV set's original values.

Another thing, set your audio on the TV set to variable. Mine was set to FIXED and that blocked me from entering the SM.

Be careful, you are playing with fire here.

........When PIP is turned on for two 1080i inputs, the computer will have to decide which of the two signals will become the reference for the final output.

Perhaps the computer will lock onto the signal associated with the larger of the two images in the PIP, so that if there is a scrolling bar, it will accompany the smaller of the two images and be less noticable.

To date, I do not recall anyone reporting ever seeing a scrolling bar while PIP was active. In theory, a scrolling bar has as much of a chance of being visible in PIP as in non-PIP.Twinview(Sony's PIP) can't be used for two 1080i inputs on my HS510. I assume this is true for all twinview capable DA-4 chassis. The manual explains that video inputs 5, 6 and 7 (all of the HD compatible inputs) can only be displayed in the left window of twinview.

The twinview frame is created by the Multi-Image Driver (MID), therefore, the MID introduced 1080i scrolling bar occurs on the left window.

Twinview(Sony's PIP) can't be used for two 1080i inputs on my HS510. I assume this is true for all twinview capable DA-4 chassis. The manual explains that video inputs 5, 6 and 7 (all of the HD compatible inputs) can only be displayed in the left window of twinview.

The twinview frame is created by the Multi-Image Driver (MID), therefore, the MID introduced 1080i scrolling bar occurs on the left window.

Not being required to display two simultaneous HD images in Twinview has certainly minimized the complexity of the task for Sony.

Thus Sony never really had any excuse for not introducing the PLL for 1080i sources with the first DA4 chassis.

For a few dollars worth of chips, they could have saved themselves a lot of headaches.

I suppose Sony never imagined that the flyback transformer pulse would leak back into the signal path so much.

Not being required to display two simultaneous HD images in Twinview has certainly minimized the complexity of the task for Sony.

Thus Sony never really had any excuse for not introducing the PLL for 1080i sources with the first DA4 chassis.

For a few dollars worth of chips, they could have saved themselves a lot of headaches.

I suppose Sony never imagined that the flyback transformer pulse would leak back into the signal path so much.Yes, I've always considered this issue to be a DESIGN FLAW, that Sony should have been forced to resolve with a recall. This recall should have provided owners with upgraded/modified boards that FIXED the flaw. Instead, owners have had "countermeasures" applied to their sets, which don't completely resolve the problem.

In addition, these countermeasures disable MID processing of 1080i signals. While I don't consider this to be a fundamental capability of the set, I do consider it an important one. The advanced MID processing helps provide that "Sony look".

In addition, these countermeasures disable MID processing of 1080i signals. While I don't consider this to be a fundamental capability of the set, I do consider it an important one. The advanced MID processing helps provide that "Sony look".

It is a shame that we paid extra for all those DRC/MID signal processors only to have been forced to bypass them.

I think that the "Sony Look" helped launch these TVs 5 years ago when it was possible to take a signal coming in at low rez and double the lines.

With all the HD material available today, I wonder how much more the MID chip could enhance 1080i images compared to the raw bypassed look which I got used to over the last 4 years.

get this I just got a email from SONY and they said they will fix this problem parts and labor and my set is almost 2 years out of warninty

but they have calls and inconent numbers dating back to when I bought the set and no one cought it while under warninty but it was loged as a problem since early 2004 when I first reported it so a head tech authorsided a repair and I got someone comming soon

get this I just got a email from SONY and they said they will fix this problem parts and labor and my set is almost 2 years out of warninty

but they have calls and inconent numbers dating back to when I bought the set and no one cought it while under warninty but it was loged as a problem since early 2004 when I first reported it so a head tech authorsided a repair and I got someone comming soon


Could you give more details? Email address?

Thanks

get this I just got a email from SONY and they said they will fix this problem parts and labor and my set is almost 2 years out of warninty

but they have calls and inconent numbers dating back to when I bought the set and no one cought it while under warninty but it was loged as a problem since early 2004 when I first reported it so a head tech authorsided a repair and I got someone comming soon

That's great news.

You have stated that after you did the patch, the bar went away for both 720P and for 1080i, but with both input formats, your PQ had deteriorated.

Your challenge will be to get the technician to bring your picture quality back to what it was when you had the bar, but this time while the patch is enabled.

Make sure the patch is done both for components and DVI, just as the bulletin calls for, even if you are not currently using your DVI input. But you will need to provide a signal to your DVI port, so you may need to scramble to borrow some device that transmits to a DVI port, directly or with a HDMI/DVI cable.

If the technician's test equipment has a DVI connection, so much the better, but ask him first because not all test equipment has a DVI connection, and your technician may only be interested in doing the minimum to get you up and running, not to provide you with the capability to use DVI in the future.


If the technician can't improve the PQ to your satisfaction, you might want to consider ahead of time how you will respond.

In your place, I might ask for a replacement TV, new or second hand, while paying some premium for the depreciation and use of your old TV over 3-4 years.

You may also want to prepare yourself to bring your XBOX and the like, to the technician's shop to show that your devices when connected to another TV don't cause any problems at 720P or 1080i.

now do you think the tech will just turn off the HDPT and say fixed or will replacing parts fix it so I can keep the HDPT on

with HDPT off I have tried to calibrate it up but my main problem is that on the KV-32HS510 atleast mine the brightness and contrast and so fourth are the same for all inputs so if I make the 1080i look good everything else looks like crap and is even a red tint to it and I got to turn the red gama it should be at 7 ant it was at 15 after I calibrated it looked great for 1080i and 720p native but anything else looked like crap

my xbox 360 dash board is the worst off from the HDPT off all the small text and lines arent near as rich and I have tried every adjustment even the special sharpness in the service menu SYSM



also have you noticed that you can change the SYSM and GAMM and GAMM it will go from 0-3 but if you press it up or down if you go to 3 it will get brighter and if oyu press it again it will get brighter yet but it stays at 3 and the same for 0 it gets darker and press it when it is already at 0 and it gets darker

the same with SYSM but with sharpness

also if you go from 0 to 1 to 2 then back to 1 it will get brighter when you go from 2 to 1 or 1 to 0 when it shouldnt but it is like it is missing a number or something



was going to post the email but at the bottom it says do not repost in any forums and other legal stuff like reposting it atleast wait until after it is fixed hehehe

It is in your interest to make sure over the long term that your DVI (HDMI) works and continues to work inspite of what your STB supplier might do to your STB firmware through periodic downloaded upgrades in the future. The last thing you want is for your supplier to remove your display from the list of authorized devices.

The reason is that there is a long held suspicion amongst many forum members that eventually HD movies being broadcast to STBs will be accompanied by broadcast flags to force the STB to downrez the components output to prevent you from streaming HD analog signals into your computer for evential copying.

Changing the entry to your 40XBR from components to DVI may result, as it did last year for me, in a slight loss in brightness, which forced me to recalibrate the brightness and contrast controls to compensate.

I recently moved my cable STB from 6 feet away from the TV set to 40 feet away, and that forced me to use RG6 components cables.

As the XBR is an analog TV, somewhere the MPEG formatted signal arriving from the dish or cable, has to be converted into analog. Can the STB do a better job at this compared to the DVI chip in your TV? Does your components cables between the STB erode your analog signal because it is too long or poorly shielded? The answers to these questions might better suggest if a DVI link with the STB is a better route than the components cable.

But as I mentioned above, sooner or later we may be all pushed to get our old DVI inputs up and running and it will be good to know that they can take over anytime.

Last week I changed my SYSM parameter from 3 to 0 and that has resulted in the "skin texture" of actors' faces on the screen being enhanced. I cannot say if this represents a real increase in PQ or simply an exageration, but the net illusion is impressive to me.

I ran my STB in DVI for the last year and I don't recall ever getting this much crispness. I believe that with the DVI signal visible on the screen, the SYSM parameter can likewise be tuned from 3 to 0, and that may help you if you permenantly change from components to DVI.

Thanks for the tips. I'm on my last year (purchased Dec. 2002) of my 5yr. CC Extended Warranty, so hopefully I'm covered if needed. Has anyone had to deal w/CC's Extended Warranty on this matter?

now do you think the tech will just turn off the HDPT and say fixed or will replacing parts fix it so I can keep the HDPT on?

Unfortunately, there are no parts that can be replaced to make your set work while leaving HDPT on. There is a new solution, a PLL addition on the most recent XBR TVs, but even if a board could be swapped to give you the PLL, I don't know if there is an accompanying firmware change to the CPU to allow the PLL to operate in your set. You could ask ahead of time so they bring the correct board in case they can't make your PQ be good with the HDPT off.



with HDPT off I have tried to calibrate it up but my main problem is that on the KV-32HS510 atleast mine the brightness and contrast and so fourth are the same for all inputs so if I make the 1080i look good everything else looks like crap and is even a red tint to it and I got to turn the red gama it should be at 7 ant it was at 15 after I calibrated it looked great for 1080i and 720p native but anything else looked like crap

That is a problem with our early generation chassis. Later chassis allow individual calibration of each input/format.

my xbox 360 dash board is the worst off from the HDPT off all the small text and lines arent near as rich and I have tried every adjustment even the special sharpness in the service menu SYSM

also have you noticed that you can change the SYSM and GAMM and GAMM it will go from 0-3 but if you press it up or down if you go to 3 it will get brighter and if oyu press it again it will get brighter yet but it stays at 3 and the same for 0 it gets darker and press it when it is already at 0 and it gets darker

the same with SYSM but with sharpness

also if you go from 0 to 1 to 2 then back to 1 it will get brighter when you go from 2 to 1 or 1 to 0 when it shouldnt but it is like it is missing a number or something

In that case, test out some of your equipment on someone else's Sony to see how well their TV works.

was going to post the email but at the bottom it says do not repost in any forums and other legal stuff like reposting it atleast wait until after it is fixed hehehe


Looking forward to the news following your technician's visit.

well I have decided to sell the TV to my friend after I get it fixed and buy a new one I already got a 32" KDL-V32XBR2 and it looked like crap compaired to my CRT so I sold it to my brother I was looking for a newer CRT it should be 16x9 unless it is like 40" or more which I dont think is possable so long as the 16x9 screen size is biger than it is on my 32" 4x3 now I think it is something like 26" or so

I know I asked this before but why cant a CRT do 1080p?

and can I get a CRT or a LCD I guess that isn't a consumer model that was made for medical imaging or a director to look at that is a higher scan rate ie higher res if so would it nead a scaler to scale it up to what ever the res was something higher than 1920x1080? do they make a scaler for higher than 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 like in that 24"gateway LCD with the Faroudja chip in it


Just an update...
We were able to vary the input to the TV from one of his boxes and watch the dreaded vertical line stop in the middle of the screen, reverse direction (left to right now), slow down or speed up, change direction again (back to the right to left), depending on how he moved a knob on the box...



where can I get one of those "boxes" and could I run video through it to fix the problem or would it not allow the pasthrough of the signal

or better yet is there a way to delay or advance the frequency by 1 khz to fix this or is that what this would be doing

I know I asked this before but why cant a CRT do 1080p?

and can I get a CRT or a LCD I guess that isn't a consumer model that was made for medical imaging or a director to look at that is a higher scan rate ie higher res if so would it nead a scaler to scale it up to what ever the res was something higher than 1920x1080? do they make a scaler for higher than 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 like in that 24"gateway LCD with the Faroudja chip in it




where can I get one of those "boxes" and could I run video through it to fix the problem or would it not allow the pasthrough of the signal

or better yet is there a way to delay or advance the frequency by 1 khz to fix this or is that what this would be doing

1080P is even more demanding than 720P and these domestic CRTs can barely do 1080i.

Professional monitors of any reasonable size that do 1080P might cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Ask XBOX technical support if there is any way to alter the scan rate (clock timing) in their device. Tell them that the precise scan rate generated by the XBOX creates a harmonic or sub-harmonic that beats against the 1080i native and unsynced scan rate of your Sony HDTV resulting in a visible slow moving bar on the screen due to the deflection electronics of the CRT coupling back into the input signal.

I have a Sony Tiniton Wega KV-36HS510 as well, and Ive gone though every page of this tread. I just hooked up a PS3 with hdmi to dvi cables and on 1080i get the same pinkish bar. This TV is obviously not an xbr like it seems everyone else but a handful of people have on this thread. From what Im reading...is there NO fix for this CRT model? If I overlooked something, let me know, but I seriously have read every post. Im one of those people that if I went in to service my own tv would mess something up for sure.

I just came across this forum today...read everything from 2002 until now ..29 pages of posts. My head is spinning and Im not sure what Im supposed to do with this problem. I dont want to watch blu ray discs in 480p, I need 1080i. They dont display in 720p so thats a big let down. The BD looked so horrible that I exchanged my ps3 yesterday thinking that was the problem after trying every ground loop, cable, and ps3 setting fix I could.

Did Sony every address this? Can I just call them and get a new board? Anyone else with this model ever get this fixed properly? Im going nuts right now after I tried everything. Thanks in advance.

I have a Sony Tiniton Wega KV-36HS510 as well, and Ive gone though every page of this tread. I just hooked up a PS3 with hdmi to dvi cables and on 1080i get the same pinkish bar. This TV is obviously not an xbr like it seems everyone else but a handful of people have on this thread. From what Im reading...is there NO fix for this CRT model? If I overlooked something, let me know, but I seriously have read every post. Im one of those people that if I went in to service my own tv would mess something up for sure.

I just came across this forum today...read everything from 2002 until now ..29 pages of posts. My head is spinning and Im not sure what Im supposed to do with this problem. I dont want to watch blu ray discs in 480p, I need 1080i. They dont display in 720p so thats a big let down. The BD looked so horrible that I exchanged my ps3 yesterday thinking that was the problem after trying every ground loop, cable, and ps3 setting fix I could.

Did Sony every address this? Can I just call them and get a new board? Anyone else with this model ever get this fixed properly? Im going nuts right now after I tried everything. Thanks in advance.You shouldn't need a new board with the HS510. Your set should already have the required circuitry to implement the Sony resolution. I have a 34HS510 that exhibited this flaw with DVI but not component inputs.

You can either implement the Sony service menu changes, which bypass the MID processor for 1080i inputs or you can send 720p to the set. The bar is not evident with a 720p input on my set. Sony did not actually fix this problem for any of the affected sets, they merely mitigated it. From the XS955/XBR960 sets on, the problem does not exist.

could you link me what service changes that would be right for my needs. The ps3 im using works fine with 720p, but as you know blu discs wont display 720p, leaving me to watch them in 480p, which isnt any better than DVD.

Also you say it happened with DVI but not component cables. Should I switch from DVI to component. How much of a down grade is this if any. Ive been working with people on the ps3 board and honestly they've been little help when its come to this problem. Not for lack of trying, just not even close to what the problem was as it turns out. If you coud link me to the specific fix in the service menu I need that would be so appreciated. Ive read some people do the fix and end up with picture quality issues after that, then need to do 20 other adjustments. Will I have to , or is there something quick and easy I can do that wont affect anything except this problem. Thanks again...ive been at this problem for a month now. You guys are very knowledgable and I owe anyone that helps me more than I can give.

Also you say it happened with DVI but not component cables. Should I switch from DVI to component? How much of a down grade is this if any?

It can happen just as easily with components as with DVI.

So a switch may not make that much of a difference.

It's not so much a question of a downgrade when switching from DVI to components, it's more an issue about giving up DVI which may be critical in a few years if broadcast flags ever get implimented on Hollywood movies.

Best is to keep one's set in top shape for both components and DVI with regard to the scrolling bar.

The instructions for implementing the patch are buried a few pages in from the start of this thread.

Looks like that did the trick after pulling my hair out for 2 weeks. Im forever greatful to this forum after looking everywhere and asking everyone. This seems to have worked. I still need to check out a Blu Ray disk in 1080i for a final test, but I dont see it on the PS3 anymore, so I think Im in the clear. I cant thank everyone enough. Anyone that suffered with this problem knows how estatic I am right now. (especially after waiting this long to finally have an HD device like a blu ray, ps3 etc.) I actually exchanged my PS3 to try to solve this. I stayed up putting in all my ps3 info again and doing this fix....its now 4am, thats how important it was for me to see if there was a solution. Wow...thanks again to everyone who makes this forum what it is. I cant say enough. I think I can finally sleep at night, and more importantly I can finally get the BDs Ive held off on thinking it would be a waste. VICTORY!

I saw people talking about the Avia digital video essentials disc. The one I always see is for DVD, I also read about an HD-DVD version. Any word on a blu ray version of this, and also, are these worth it?

I saw people talking about the Avia digital video essentials disc. The one I always see is for DVD, I also read about an HD-DVD version. Any word on a blu ray version of this, and also, are these worth it?


Glad the patch worked out for you.

Are you running your PS3 in 1080i or 720P?

You might have good answers to your question about a HD version of AVIA if you post in the DISPLAY CALIBRATION forum.

Good luck.

Sorry for posting in the wrong forum. I got that disk anyways , so Ill give it a go.

Ill mostly be running my games in 720p, but since BDs dont run in 720p Ill run them in 1080i. The problem did go away using 720p setting on my ps3, I had figured that out before comming here. Its just that I bought it almost as much for the BD player as I did for the game station. The combo is nice and I needed to replace a vcr and my ps2 original finally crapped out, so it seemed to make sence to upgrade.

The problem did go away using 720p setting on my ps3, I had figured that out before comming here.

Normally, the scrolling bar only occurs at 1080i because the scanning frequency at 1080i is almost the same, but unfortunately not equal to, the internal clock frequency of the MID processor. It is that minute difference in those two frequencies which creates the scrolling bar in some chassis.

There have been some posts in this thread relating to a scrolling bar for 720P sources, particularly with PS3, but I believe these are the result of another issue.

So when you mentioned that you were using PS3 and had no bar, I wondered if this positive result was because of your applied patch or the fact that your PS3 was outputting at 720P.

If you applied the patch, you should have no problems with either of these two scan rates.

Hi All!

I don't really post here at all but wanted to take a moment to let you know how extremely helpful this thread has been to me and THANK YOU ALL for making this forum what it is!

I too own a 34xbr800 purchased back in 2002 with the dreaded verticle bar problem. I first found this thread a couple of years ago when I started sending high-def signals to my TV - I think when I first subscribed to VOOM (ha!) I was able to skirt and/or ignore the problem by changing my inputs to 720p - but it finally became annoying enough to fix as I hooked up my PS3, more high def content came around, and I learned to appreciate the extra pixels and detail from a 1080i source versus an upconverted 720p.

Anyway...I decided to takle this a couple of months ago after a more detailed review of the problem on this forum. It was very frustrating to have a TV I payed over 2k for that was unwatchable at its best resolution.

I was lucky enough to have purchased an extended warranty on this set and was able to get a tech out with a new "b" board. After applying all the service mode fixes (myself with the help of the info here) the problem is gone and I coudn't be happier.

So a big, sincere THANKS to all of you, especially:

Andy64 for starting and staying with thread
Phil Wheeler and montreal for detailed insight and analysis
ragamuffin for the service mode spreadsheet
gashog301 for identifying the HDPT fix
...and jjingle1 for the post HDPT change settings (my name is also John Jacob Jingleheimerschmidt!) :D

This forum picks up where manufacturers and service techs sometimes fall short.

Where do I donate?

:)

Alcyone

Additional data point: (I have a 34XBR800 from 2001 or so.)
Hooked up PS3 this weekend. Pink/Green bar scrolling upward, using component input, at 480, 720, and 1080. And nothing in PS3 or TV menus would fix it. So I bought a HDMI /DVI adapter and now everything works in 720 and 1080i fine. I had no issues from my Motorola HD STB (Comcast) in the past, so I think it must be an interaction specific to the PS3. Anyway, just to let folks know this worked for me.
Pete

Pink/Green bar scrolling upward, using component input, at 480, 720, and 1080. And nothing in PS3 or TV menus would fix it. So I bought a HDMI /DVI adapter and now everything works in 720 and 1080i fine.


480p, 720p, and 1080i all have the one thing in common, they present a progressive or interlaced frame on the screen once every 60th of a second.

A scrolling horizontal bar is usually due to a noisy 60 hertz type (not switching type) power supply in the box that creates the analog video signal from a digital source (STB, PS3, etc.), which would explain why your move to an all digital transmission line solved your problem.

As long as the video signal remains in the digital domain, it won't pick up interference from nearby appliances and noisy internal power supplies.

Hi all, I to had the dreaded vertical bars on my 34hs510, so I called a tech (not a sony tech) he looked at the tv and of course it was day light so he could not see the bar. I then told him that he could see it at night and on an episode of desperate housewifes that I recorded (yes I watch the show with my wife) to show off the problem. He said he did not want to see it because if I can record the BAR then it was probably a problem with my hddvr. I then tried to tell him about this forum, he was very stubbern and did not want to here aword about it. He also said the problem only exists on tv's manufactured before 2003. I told him about the sony bulletin and the changing of HDPT from 1 to 0, He had a clip board with what seemed to have the "fix" on it. He then went into the service manual and changed the HDpt setting to 0 and some other changes that I believe were the suggested changes on this thread. there is more to the story with this bone head of a tech but I realize I'm starting to ramble on, so the result was I think the bar is gone but the picture quality has really suffered. Is there anything I can do to make the picture look more crisp and not so soft??? thank you again raouliii for the link.

I would recommend call his company to complain about him, if he was being so stubborn he wasn't listening to you, the customer.

.......... He said he did not want to see it because if I can record the BAR then it was probably a problem with my hddvr. ......... Is there anything I can do to make the picture look more crisp and not so soft???

First of all, the bar is created locally within the TV chassis and cannot be pre-recorded onto your PVR's hard disk. If that was true, you could playback the recording into a variety of different direct-view and flat screen TV's and always see the bar. I'm sorry your tech gave you such a hard time.

All the supplemental tweaks that are described in the service bulletin have to be strictly applied, and when this is done properly, each set of tweaks gets applied to both the 1080i mode and the 480p mode. If your tech did not follow the rules properly, he may not have changed modes before applying the second set of tweaks. In the worse case senario, he might have applied both sets of tweaks only to mode 1080i or only to 480p. You can't change modes other than by selecting a different video source, that is, you make sure that what you are looking at on the screen is passing through the composite or DVI cable as 1080i and later you make sure the program passing through the same cable is 480p.

Given that some STB's are configured to upconvert everything, the only way you can get your true 480p input to the TV is to plug a 480p DVD player in and tune the TV to that source. Also, make sure the HD source is really 1080i and not 720p, as some STBs are accidentially configured that way.

My post number 846 above describes the use of the remote control for navigating and more importantly, refers back to the post 277, which is the real jewel in this thread - the service bulletin, often forgotten about.

Let us assume that all tweaks were propoerly applied in your case.

I mention in my above post 817, that I was able to improve the sharpness of my picture by changing the parameter SYSM (see what values I used). I referred to this parameter a bit like the treble control on an audio amplifier. As I use the SA8300HD as my set top box, I immediately noticed that the graphics generated by my STB (all the menu and pop up messages on the screen) were slightly distorted after I changed SYSM. But all my HD content coming down the cable was suddenly crispier and less soft.

Why? Because the composite link between my STB and TV is an analog one and with its short RG6 cables, there was very little erosion of the high end (treble like) of the video spectrum, so my SYSM patch was exagerating (boosting the treble equivalent) of the video signal, and the locally generated STB graphics were distorted (a bit fuzzy).

However, when we look at how a TV picture starts out in the studio as an analog signal generated within the camera, this signal takes a long journey to eventually arrive within your STB, and I have no doubt, most of this journey is in the digital form where there is no erosion of the video signal, and a small part is in the analog form (in the studio mixdown or VCR tape?) where some erosion to the high end may have taken place.

So by having my TV exagerate the high end of the video signal due to changing SYSM, any video signal that had previously suffered some high end loss while in the analog domain, will now suddenly be equalized and look more natural.

Like the other tweaks, there is a SYSM parameter available to be changed in each mode, both 1080i and 480p. Good luck and let us know if you do it and how it turns out.

P.S., there may be no actual visual difference between SYSM = 0 versus 1, on a scale of 0 to 3.

montreal and shadowknight thanks for the reply. I was wondering if you coud give me a step by step list on how to enter the service menu. Sorry for the foolish question but I just don't know how to get into it. Also, I don't know how to change numbers, skip through modes or even exit the service menue. I want to change the SYSM to 0 to get rid of the soft look. I noticed since the tech messed with my tv the picture looks much darker and strains my eyes. I have it set on standard and the flesh tones look to red. I tried making changes in hue, color brightness ect. but it just looks worse. I tried the vivid mode but the skin tones turn to white. this whole thing is really frustrating to me, because I loved the picture before except for that "BAR". Now I don't know if I should have the tech back out to change all the settings back and deal with the "BAR" or what. To bad I don't know all the changes he made in the service menu. Anyway, on another note I thought that you guys would find it pretty funny that I told the tech that you can see the bar more at night with the lights off, he then got up off of his tool box that he was sitting on to look at my resessed lighting and said that sometimes the lighting can cause the picture to distort. I then had to remind him that it is worse with the LIGHTS OFF! Well again, thanks for all the help, I'm off to bed to try and make up some lost sleep!

I was wondering if you coud give me a step by step list on how to enter the service menu.

See post number 849. Pay attention not to enter an illegal button which will permenantly erase your TV's database.

When navigating, it helps to have a printout of one of the attached tables which allows you to see the order that "categories" and "items" will be found on your screen. Items are sub-sets of categories, and you can get to an item by directly going to the correct category by clicking a number of times the proper remote button, and then go to the item within that category by clicking a number of times another remote button. Scrolling out of the last item of any category, automatically scrolls into the first item of the next category. Everything eventually wraps around.

Once you get to the desired item, you should note its value on your printout, taking account of the corresponding mode/scan rate if appropriate, before you update the item value with your remote. If happy with the results, you can "save" your new value and mark that value on your printout. If you run off to the same or another item in a different mode and/or scan rate without first saving your change, then that change will be lost. It helps to exit the SM and come back in to revisit your updates to make sure they have really stuck in the right places.

Resetting to factory defaults will essentually destroy your database and TV, because back in the factory, a technician fine tuned your TV and entered the proper values which are not saved in any default backup copy. One forum member accidentally did this and had to go though hundreds of items trying to, as best as possible, approximate what his original lost values were.

I mention in post 849 that some tweaks are mode dependant (pro, cinema, etc) and you can flip between these modes using the normal mode button on the remote control.

The tweaks concerning the vertical bar require you to change scan rates (1080i, 480p) and that requires that you change the video source with the remote or change the physical patched components cables on the back of the set, as necessary to obtain a source with the appropriate scan rate.

While some buttons on your remote allow you to navigate through your SM making "saves" along the way, other buttons allow you to adjust your image with the mode button as well as change the video source at the same time, and you will see/hear your selected program in the background with the SM superimposed on the screen. You should also see on the screen the text "1080i" or "480p" etc., as is the case.

Attachments are for the XBR800, XBR910, and XBR960 chassis. The HS series is similar to the XBR series. These spreadsheets were all generously posted in the other threads years ago, and because they all apply to different versions of the DA-4 chassis, some items/categories may appear in some spreadsheets and not others. As you navigate with your remote through the service menu, you will see how closely your model matches the different spreadsheets that I have attached.

It might be wise to look at the "Official XBRnnn....thread"s posted elsewhere in this direct view forum where you can properly debate your experiences, because this thread is supposed to address only the vertical bar bug and the associated tweaks.

If your remote does not get you into the SM, try unplugging your TV for a minute. Sometimes, the system gets locked up and won't let you into the SM.

Your marked up paper copy of the spreadsheet will become your roadmap back to the beginning if someday you want to undo what you've done.

Good luck and be careful.

I have a KV-36HS510 and I have the right-to-left scrolling vertical white bar. Only really a problem when inputing a 1080i signal. Very annoying. But I read through every post here and I'm not touching a damn thing! Way too scary! :( I guess I'll forgo 1080i for the sake over an otherwise amazing picture with 720i. Really hate to risk screwing up that picture quality. But thanks for the thread everyone, I thought it was my new Oppo DVD player!

BTW, HAS Sony gotten more liberal about fixing this problem for out of warranty sets?

Hey Guys,
I have the 36HS500 manufactured in May of '03. I just noticed that I have the vertical bar problem as well, I never noticed before since I didn't have much 1080i material. I've been trying to go through the posts here but its pretty daunting. I am wondering if there is a way to fix this through the service menu or is it not really possible? I don't have an extended warranty or anything so I'm wondering what, if anything, I should do about this.

Thanks

Hey Guys,
I have the 36HS500 manufactured in May of '03. I just noticed that I have the vertical bar problem as well, I never noticed before since I didn't have much 1080i material. I've been trying to go through the posts here but its pretty daunting. I am wondering if there is a way to fix this through the service menu or is it not really possible? I don't have an extended warranty or anything so I'm wondering what, if anything, I should do about this.

ThanksThe critical issue for your set is whether its B board is populated with the necessary components to allow for the high definition pass through function to be turned on. I have a copy of the Sony service bulletin that guides you through determining if the service menu fix will work for your set. PM me and I can email it to you.

hey raouliii,i know u posted in my other thread,my model (KV-34HS420) does not seem to be mentioned at all in this massive thread...im wondering what fixes i can do specifically for this model and how do i go about doing them...its a newer model then many of the others listed so im hopefull

also this only happens when using my hdmi input in 1080i,my hd-dvd player only uses hdmi,but i have a OTA HD tuner that doesn't work well for whatever reason with my hdmi port but works great in component and i see no bar when viewing 1080i content through component,but i would prefer doing my stuff through hdmi....

hey raouliii,i know u posted in my other thread,my model (KV-34HS420) does not seem to be mentioned at all in this massive thread...im wondering what fixes i can do specifically for this model and how do i go about doing them...its a newer model then many of the others listed so im hopefull

also this only happens when using my hdmi input in 1080i,my hd-dvd player only uses hdmi,but i have a OTA HD tuner that doesn't work well for whatever reason with my hdmi port but works great in component and i see no bar when viewing 1080i content through component,but i would prefer doing my stuff through hdmi....I don't recall any HS420 owners reporting the scrolling bar problem, however, it sounds like this is the issue you are having.

I didn't see the bar using component on my HS510 either. As I stated in your other thread, you have a number of options. If you choose the last option of implementing the countermeasures, then you will need to learn how to get into the service menu of your set, become comfortable with it and make a number of changes. Entering into the service menu is not very difficult but is not for the faint of heart or one prone to fat-fingering entries. A LOT of damage can be done to your set in the service menu. If you still want to attempt the countermeasures, I would suggest reading the last few pages of this thread as well as the service menu navigation posts in the Kentech Sony Service Menu thread. If you PM an email address to me, I can send you a copy of the Sony Countermeasures Service Bulletin.

A quick check to validate that the bulletin applies to your set and problem is by making just one service menu change, HDPT, to determine if this resolves your issue. If it does, then there are a number of other changes listed in the bulletin that should be implemented in order to regain comparable performance for 1080i inputs.

well i have the service chart for the 420's and im able to get into the service menu its a bit daunting but ill get through it. there does seem to be and hdpt option in the chart and it also says next to it as well "Note: CXA2170 Setting"..whats that about?

I have a Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV that I bought back in early 2002 and I too am now a victim of this scrolling vertical bar changing color tints of pinkish to greenish tints as it slowly moves across the screen from left to right. I see nowhere in this thread that provides details about this particular model. I went into the service mode but do not see a HOSC setting (for Horizontal Oscillator) to see if I can tweak the frequency to sync up with the 1080i component input signals. I am using the VIDEO 5 input feeding it with a Samsung BD-UP5000 dual formt HD-DVD and BD disc player. It shows the scrolling vertical bar when fed HD 1080i signals but the scrolling bar does not seem to be there when fed 1080i signal playing SD DVDs. I guess there must be a slight frequency component drift between playing HD discs and old SD discs? Anyway, has anyone had their Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV fixed? Of course mine is way out of warranty. I never knew about this defect until just now when I bought the HD DVD player and for the first time ever fed it a 1080i signal through its component inputs. It has an old i-Link connector but I don't have any i-Link devices. I only have HDMI 1.3. So another question I ask is; Is there a way to use Sony's i-Link connector with newer HDMI adapter cables like there is with DVI to HDMI adapters? Dang. Disappointed. Will Sony still repair this big heavy set? What a defect.

I really hope that someone knows of a fix for this Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV to get rid of the vertical scrolling bar when inputtng 1080i signal via component inputs. Other than this quirk, this TV has always put out a really nice HD picture and I would like to keep it. If it cannot be fixed, I'll have to live with 720p or just sell it off cheap and buy a newer 1080p HDTV.

I have a Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV that I bought back in early 2002 and I too am now a victim of this scrolling vertical bar changing color tints of pinkish to greenish tints as it slowly moves across the screen from left to right. I see nowhere in this thread that provides details about this particular model. I went into the service mode but do not see a HOSC setting (for Horizontal Oscillator) to see if I can tweak the frequency to sync up with the 1080i component input signals...... Anyway, has anyone had their Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV fixed?....... Dang. Disappointed. Will Sony still repair this big heavy set? What a defect.

I really hope that someone knows of a fix for this Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV to get rid of the vertical scrolling bar when inputtng 1080i signal via component inputs. Other than this quirk, this TV has always put out a really nice HD picture and I would like to keep it. If it cannot be fixed, I'll have to live with 720p or just sell it off cheap and buy a newer 1080p HDTV.I have reviewed my copy of the XBR2 service manual and searched this thread and I have good news and bad news.

The service manual indicates that the XBR2 (HA3 chassis) has the necessary switching ICs populated on the B board for HD passthrough to occur. It also has a few references to service items that are "Used when a 1080i signal by-passes the MID". However, the service menu listing does not show any item named HDPT, which is the standard name for the HD passthrough function. If your service menu has the HDPT item, then you may be able to apply the countermeasures.

In a search of this thread, I found this post by montreal (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2505566#post2505566) concerning a service bulletin for the HA3 chassis. Read the posts by Bryan1701HD before and after the above referenced post as well.

I have reviewed my copy of the XBR2 service manual and searched this thread and I have good news and bad news.

The service manual indicates that the XBR2 (HA3 chassis) has the necessary switching ICs populated on the B board for HD passthrough to occur. It also has a few references to service items that are "Used when a 1080i signal by-passes the MID". However, the service menu listing does not show any item named HDPT, which is the standard name for the HD passthrough function. If your service menu has the HDPT item, then you may be able to apply the countermeasures.

In a search of this thread, I found this post by montreal (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2505566#post2505566) concerning a service bulletin for the HA3 chassis. Read the posts by Bryan1701HD before and after the above referenced post as well.

raouliii Thanks a Billion!!! I just followed those links and applied the fix and it worked beautifully! The vertical scrolling bar has disappeared totally and man the picture looks so sharp on this CRT! I am happy I don't have to get a new HDTV now! BTW, for my set (Sony KV-34XBR2) I only had to change one parameter not two parameters as outlined in the link you provided. For the benefit of other KV-34XBR2 owners that may stumble upon this bug, I only had to change the MID1 DPSW setting from 0 to 1. The other parameter mentioned in original instructions thread OP HDPT from 1 to 0 caused the vertical bars to be even more noticable. So I left it alone set to 1. Do not change this value, leave it alone. Only change the MID1 DPSW from 0 to 1.

Thanks for the info and links! I can't believe how great this older Sony CRT looks with great colors, contrast and sharpness...!

raouliii Thanks a Billion!!! ......Thanks for the info and links! I can't believe how great this older Sony CRT looks with great colors, contrast and sharpness...!Your very welcome. AVSForum is a great resource!!!!:)

Montreal -

Thanks for the tip on the XBR2. Alas, I tried the HDPT fix and so did the tech along with some other things. Changing it to 0 resulted in a greatly exaggerated scrolling bar. He had called the "home office" for the fix. He took pictures of the problem and I never heard from him again. (My set was manufactured in February, 2002.) This set's problem is not severe and the bar doesn't affect the color as it scrolls. I'm going back in to setup just to be sure about the MID1 DPSW, but I don't think this works on my set.

- Bryan

Well its been over four years since this topic was posted, but nevertheless I am updating it because there may still be Sony KV-34XBR2 HDTV set owners out there that have stumbled across this bug today (like I did) and want to know if there is a fix. I was able to fix mine and get rid of the vertical scrolling bar line on 1080i component inputs. Do what Montreal has outlined in his post #355 above http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2505566#post2505566 but do not change the OP HDPT from 0 to 1 as instructed. That only made the vertical bar more visible for me just like Bryan1701HD reported. The only parameter that I needed to change was the MID1 DPSW from 0 to 1. Do this while you have your TV set on the video component input that has the troubles! (I was using VIDEO 5 input). Then save the setting. That's all I did and the vertical scrolling bar line symptom is totally gone! Way to go Montreal for posting the initial info about the service bulletin. Thank You!
I am enjoying my 5 years old Sony CRT KV-34XBR2 HDTV with 1080i HD DVD's now and they look GREAT! A fine set this still is!

Your very welcome. AVSForum is a great resource!!!!:)

raouliii or anyone else, my Sony KV-34XBR2 is working great at 1080i now that its fixed. I have another question about running it with 720p and below signals, I see what look like a bunch of horizontal scan lines on the screen when the scene is not too bright. The horizontal bar lines are stationary and don't seem to scroll up nor down. Just barely visible at times but show up loudly in medium to darker scenes.

I am thinking this may be a bad shielding issue with RF signal leaking into the circuit through the connecting cables. I am not sure, but I can alleviate the problem somewhat it seems, by moving the cables around. But I cannot get rid of them. Is there a service menu tweak to sync this up also to remove these horizontal lines that appear. (note: It does not happen at 1080i only at 720p, i and 420p, i modes). I am not too concerned if there is no fix because I have 1080i working fine now. But I would like to get it perfect if it is at all possible on this Sony model.

I just found out there was a thread on this issue. I have the 36XBR800 and have noticed this issue about 6 months ago. I will try and attempt to use the fix up above and let you know if it worked.

xing fingers.

I just found out there was a thread on this issue. I have the 36XBR800 and have noticed this issue about 6 months ago. I will try and attempt to use the fix up above and let you know if it worked.

xing fingers.I don't believe the DPSW change is the appropriate adjustment for the XBR800. I recommend you try changing HDPT from 1 to 0 and see if the scrolling bar disappears for 1080i inputs. If that doesn't work then the required switching components are not resident on your set and the next easiest solution would be to feed the set 720p instead of 1080i.

Hello. I'm a 34HS510 owner who has had the vertical band (right to left) for years, ever since I got the TV. I was convinced it was something other than the TV, and just found this thread earlier in the week. I've read ALL the way through and made lots of notes. My TV has a June 2003 build date and DA4 chassis. I'd like to try the fix to at least see if I have a complete B board, but for the life of me, I can't get my damn TV into service mode.

I turn the tv off. Then I press, in succession: Display, 5, Vol+, Power. When I press the last button in the sequence, my TV just turns on as if I'd pressed the power button and nothing else. I see the little red light on the remote come on when I press the other keys, so I know its sending a signal. I read in a post that sometimes the TV gets locked and won't go into service mode, and to try unplugging it for awhile, then plugging it back in and entering the sequence. I unplugged it when I got home tonight, and it was unplugged for over an hour. Still, I don't get into service mode. I just get my TV to turn on when I press Power last in the sequence.

What in the world could I be doing wrong?

Some other info, if it matters. I see the vertical band on ALL tv stations. I use TWC cable, and have the set top box connected via component video cables. I used to have it going into the DVI. The band is the same either way.

I never got the band when using a regular DVD player outputting at 480, of course. And I have never seen the band when using my HD-A2 HD-DVD player via DVI. I'm good at seeing the band. I see it during the daytime, even on non-dark backgrounds. I see it everywhere. I don't see it at all when using this player, but I recently bought two other HD-DVD players (A35 and XA2) and a PS3, and I see the band using all of them. Not sure what is different about the A2.

Anyway, I need to get into service mode so I can try the fix.

Hello. I'm a 34HS510 owner who has had the vertical band (right to left) for years, ever since I got the TV. I was convinced it was something other than the TV, and just found this thread earlier in the week. I've read ALL the way through and made lots of notes. My TV has a June 2003 build date and DA4 chassis. I'd like to try the fix to at least see if I have a complete B board, but for the life of me, I can't get my damn TV into service mode. .....I think the necessary passthrough hardware exists in all of the HS510s. It was the XBR800s and earlier that had hardware problems.

...I turn the tv off. Then I press, in succession: Display, 5, Vol+, Power. When I press the last button in the sequence, my TV just turns on as if I'd pressed the power button and nothing else. I see the little red light on the remote come on when I press the other keys, so I know its sending a signal. I read in a post that sometimes the TV gets locked and won't go into service mode, and to try unplugging it for awhile, then plugging it back in and entering the sequence. I unplugged it when I got home tonight, and it was unplugged for over an hour. Still, I don't get into service mode. I just get my TV to turn on when I press Power last in the sequence.

What in the world could I be doing wrong? ......It looks like you have the sequence correct. A few ideas. Are you using the Sony remote to control other devices? Make sure that you press the TV Function button after powering off the set so that you can be certain that key presses are being directed at the tv and no other component. Make sure its the Vol+ and not the Ch+. Each button must be pressed within a second of the previous one and don't hold any buttons down.

......Some other info, if it matters. I see the vertical band on ALL tv stations. I use TWC cable, and have the set top box connected via component video cables. I used to have it going into the DVI. The band is the same either way........I am guessing that you have your TWC cable stb set to upconvert all resolutions to 1080i. Correct? What stb model is it? You may be better off setting the stb to passthrough non-HD resolutions because the HS510 likely has a better upconverter.

.....I never got the band when using a regular DVD player outputting at 480, of course. And I have never seen the band when using my HD-A2 HD-DVD player via DVI. I'm good at seeing the band. I see it during the daytime, even on non-dark backgrounds. I see it everywhere. I don't see it at all when using this player, but I recently bought two other HD-DVD players (A35 and XA2) and a PS3, and I see the band using all of them. Not sure what is different about the A2.

Anyway, I need to get into service mode so I can try the fix.That's good information on the A2. It may be that the A2 more closely matches the tv's scan frequencies and therefore the vertical bar does not move or maybe the A2 is set up for 720p output? FWIW, on my HS510, I barely saw the bar on component but it was very evident on DVI. Are you aware that the bar can be made to disappear by simply outputting at 720p?

BTW, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT ANY TYPE OF RESET FUNCTION IN THE SERVICE MENU. Sorry for shouting, but I just can't say this enough.;)

Do you have a copy of the service manual and the vertical bar mitigation technical bulletin?

First off, thanks for coming back to this thread.

I am guessing that you have your TWC cable stb set to upconvert all resolutions to 1080i. Correct? What stb model is it? You may be better off setting the stb to passthrough non-HD resolutions because the HS510 likely has a better upconverter.

I have the SA8300 HD DVR. I don't know if there is a service menu for the box itself. There is a setup button on my remote (for the cable stb) that does nothing. The settings button brings up a menu with a video option that is set to "fixed", I believe. The other options were pass-through, upconvert 1, and upconvert 2. I don't know what each of these is, as I don't have a manual for the box. Will changing this setting only affect standard-def channels?

That's good information on the A2. It may be that the A2 more closely matches the tv's scan frequencies and therefore the vertical bar does not move or maybe the A2 is set up for 720p output? FWIW, on my HS510, I barely saw the bar on component but it was very evident on DVI. Are you aware that the bar can be made to disappear by simply outputting at 720p?

Do you have a copy of the service manual and the vertical bar mitigation technical bulletin?

I don't have time to check everything now. I thought my A2 was set to output at 1080i or 1080p. I know my TV is only capable of 1080i max. Are you certain that in all cases the HS510 can lose the vertical bar simply by reciving a 720p signal? Reason I ask is that I also have an Oppo upconverting dvd player, and I would get the vertical bar when upconverting to 1080i, but would also see it if I set the Oppo to output 720P. The bar was less noticable at 720, but definitely there.

I FINALLY got into the service menu. Not sure what the problem was. I found the HDPT setting and switched it to 0. I could immediately see the softening of the picture. It seemed slightly darker, and switching back and forth, I could see what appeared to be a loss in resolution. I could see better details on the skin of Amy Poehler (watching Saturday Night Live) with it set to 1. I tried looking at another program and switching back and forth, and I could see more details of the hairs on a womans head with it at 1. It would lose a little focus when switched to 0. I realize there are some other settings to help mitigate this, and I'll explore those later. Have to go to work in 5 hours and need some sleep.

Let me ask a question just to make sure I understand this right. The important part about being in RF mode before going into the service menu. This just means that I need my TV to be receiving a signal that originates from the coaxial cable coming out of my wall, right? So the coaxial goes fromt he wall to the STB, and then component cables carry it to the TV, and I have the STB on and receiving a signal when I turn the TV off and begin the service mode sequence. Is that right? I thought I read something about needing to make the HDPT changes for each input. Does this mean that I can get rid of the bar for watching cable TV by making the switch, but to eliminate it from the signal sent from my PS3 or one of the HD-DVD players (A35 and XA2) that I need to go into the service mode while receiving a signal from those sources? I didn't have time to try those and see if the bar was gone there as well. That will have to wait until tomorrow.

Gotta go. Thanks again for keeping up with this thread. I'm sure I'll have some more questions when I have a few days off and have time to really play with this.

I was just about to give up on this set and buy a Sony KDS-XXA3000. I still might, but it will be nice to know I can kill the vertical bar on th is tv when I want, even if if means a slight reduction in detail. Always a compromise...

First off, thanks for coming back to this thread.
I have the SA8300 HD DVR. I don't know if there is a service menu for the box itself. There is a setup button on my remote (for the cable stb) that does nothing. The settings button brings up a menu with a video option that is set to "fixed", I believe. The other options were pass-through, upconvert 1, and upconvert 2. I don't know what each of these is, as I don't have a manual for the box. Will changing this setting only affect standard-def channels?........I'm not familiar with the SA8300 but I assume that passthrough may be the better setting. This will pass SD as 480i and 720p and 1080i as is.

....I don't have time to check everything now. I thought my A2 was set to output at 1080i or 1080p. I know my TV is only capable of 1080i max. Are you certain that in all cases the HS510 can lose the vertical bar simply by reciving a 720p signal? Reason I ask is that I also have an Oppo upconverting dvd player, and I would get the vertical bar when upconverting to 1080i, but would also see it if I set the Oppo to output 720P. The bar was less noticable at 720, but definitely there.......No. I am not certain but I don't recall any posts indicating 720p causing the vertical bar. I am fairly certain that the HDPT to 0 will not fix a 720p problem.

......I FINALLY got into the service menu. Not sure what the problem was. I found the HDPT setting and switched it to 0. I could immediately see the softening of the picture. It seemed slightly darker, and switching back and forth, I could see what appeared to be a loss in resolution. I could see better details on the skin of Amy Poehler (watching Saturday Night Live) with it set to 1. I tried looking at another program and switching back and forth, and I could see more details of the hairs on a womans head with it at 1. It would lose a little focus when switched to 0. I realize there are some other settings to help mitigate this, and I'll explore those later. Have to go to work in 5 hours and need some sleep.

Let me ask a question just to make sure I understand this right. The important part about being in RF mode before going into the service menu. This just means that I need my TV to be receiving a signal that originates from the coaxial cable coming out of my wall, right? So the coaxial goes fromt he wall to the STB, and then component cables carry it to the TV, and I have the STB on and receiving a signal when I turn the TV off and begin the service mode sequence. Is that right? I thought I read something about needing to make the HDPT changes for each input. Does this mean that I can get rid of the bar for watching cable TV by making the switch, but to eliminate it from the signal sent from my PS3 or one of the HD-DVD players (A35 and XA2) that I need to go into the service mode while receiving a signal from those sources? I didn't have time to try those and see if the bar was gone there as well. That will have to wait until tomorrow.........I'm don't believe having RF Input selected prior to starting the countermeasures implementation is all that critical for the HS510. HDPT is a global setting and when set to 0, should indicate 0, and function as such, regardless of the current input selected. Of course, HDPT=0 forces ONLY 1080i inputs to bypass the MID processor. I've always assumed that the RF Input selection note in the technical bulletin had more to do with the situation where the passthrough hardware was not fully implemented. Stepping through the countermeasures implementation flow chart should result in a successful implementation. I recommend making both the DVI and component adjustments.

Well, I went ahead and made the rest of the adjustments. I watched Spiderman 3 on the PS3 with no vertical band, and that was nice. It always showed up worst when watching a Blu-Ray movie, much more so than just regular HD-TV. But I don't like the loss of detail on the picture, so I think I'll put all the settings back except for maybe when watching a Blu-Ray movie. Seems like the best solution is just a new unit. :(

But I need a little help, I foolishly did not write down the original values for all of the changes I made. I did for some, but for some reason not all, so I'm not 100% certain what to return them to. It's only the Vivid Mode 2170P_3 and 2170P_1 switches for which I don't have the original values.

Can someone tell me what they should have been pre-countermeasures implementation on the HS510?

2170P_3 SHOF -> 2 original?
2170P_3 F1LV -> 2 original?
2170P-1 CBOF -> 38 original?
2170P_1 CROF -> 38 original?

Also, the CXA2151 values for YGN, CBGN and CRGN were set to 4,5,5 initially. The last part of the flow chart said to confirm they are set to 7,8,8. I changed them, but am wondering if those should be at the confirm values whether or not the countermeasures are implemented, or only if implemented. Not sure whether I should return these to what they were or not.

Another question - are those 2170P_X values global or are they really dependant on the mode (vivid, movie, standard)? I followed the flow chart and switched mode when it said to do so, but when I was looking through the menu to try and switch things back, it didn't seem to make a difference when I switched mode. I could see the picture change when I switched mode while within the service menu, but I didn't see that the values moved.

If anyone can help me out on the original settings for those four I mentioned above, with HDPT set to 1, I would appreciate it. I'm gonna deal with the bar on HD-TV, because the picture is still better and my picture from HD-DVD was fantastic and never had the bar. I have a lot more HD-DVD's than Blu-Ray's at the moment.

Think I'm gonna go ahead and get one of the KDS A3000 models, either a 50 or 55.

Tried something last night and was really pleased with the results. I have Sony 34XBR800 and have/had the dreaded scrolling bar. I had the fix done a few years back, but once I learned how to get into the service mode, thanks to the good people here, I changed HDPT back to 1, scrolling bar and all.

Well, I got tired of seeing the bar again, especially in dark scenes; I decided to set HDPT back to 0. I was again, bothered by the softness of the "fix", SO, I toyed with a few things and I think I have a pretty good tweak. I set SYSM to 0 (from 3), as was suggested here in a previous thread, and set SHOF to 3 (from 1, I think), then, the clincher, I set SPIC to 15. I flipped back and forth from HDPT 1 to 0 and while I could still see a slight difference, the clarity was pretty darn close. Give it a try; see what you think. I also tweaked the red push a bit too; the HDPT set at 0 seems to make it a bit more red, so I tweaked the GYR by bumping it up a few numbers.

Hi, new here. I just came across the "bar" recently and have been reading this thread closely. I have a KV-36HS510 and used the HDPT fix and all is well here. Im afraid to use the bulletin tweaks because my model is not listed and a newer revision of the bulletin with my model was released in 05. I believe the one here is the older version. I worry that the values maybe different than those posted here for my TV set. Does anyone have the newest version of E18728143 with the HS510's listed? Many thanks !

From jehill on Agoraquest

This issue was identified by Sony in the following service bulletin last updated on 02/25/2005:

Document Reference/Event ID: E18728143
Models: KV30XBR910, KV32HS500, KV32HS510, KV32HV600, KV34HS510, KV34XBR800, KV34XBR910, KV36HS500, KV36HS510, KV36XBR800, KV40XBR800
Subject: Moving vertical bar while viewing 1080i

Most interesting, I have just come across this problem plugging a new PS3 into my 32 inch Sony.

Where can I find the Sony service bulletin referenced

Most interesting, I have just come across this problem plugging a new PS3 into my 32 inch Sony.

Where can I find the Sony service bulletin referenced

I think it's earlier in this thread. If you can't find it, send me a private message with your email address and I'll try to dig up my copy.

Hi, new here. I just came across the "bar" recently and have been reading this thread closely. I have a KV-36HS510 and used the HDPT fix and all is well here. Im afraid to use the bulletin tweaks because my model is not listed and a newer revision of the bulletin with my model was released in 05. I believe the one here is the older version. I worry that the values maybe different than those posted here for my TV set. Does anyone have the newest version of E18728143 with the HS510's listed? Many thanks !

From jehill on Agoraquest

This issue was identified by Sony in the following service bulletin last updated on 02/25/2005:

Document Reference/Event ID: E18728143
Models: KV30XBR910, KV32HS500, KV32HS510, KV32HV600, KV34HS510, KV34XBR800, KV34XBR910, KV36HS500, KV36HS510, KV36XBR800, KV40XBR800
Subject: Moving vertical bar while viewing 1080i

I seldom cruise AVS for new topic outside of the few that I am subscribed to, so I just happened accross this question.

If you never received an answer to your question, the Sony ESI site now lists the reference bulletin in the KV36HS510 searches, so yes, the same applies to your set.

I too was afraid I would screw something up - but decided to give it a try and it was easy. Here is what I did: I turned on a 1080i program. Then I turned off the TV and turned it on getting into the service menu (Display - 5 - vol+ - power). I hit 4 until I saw the HDPT in the upper left then changed the 1 to a 0 by either hitting 3 or 6 - I can't remember which but there are only 2 options (1 and 0) so you can't screw it up. I then saved it (mute - enter) and turned off the TV to get out of the service mode. Turned the TV on and it was fixed.

There was a slight change in brightness, but I re-ran AVIA and it looks good.

Does that sound like what everyone else did?

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman.

Here is my story.

I picked up a KV34HS510 off of craigslist because i needed a cheap HDTV for the bedroom and space wasnt an issue. I ended up picking it up for 150 cash in the same city i live in. I got it home and loved the PQ, have a Wii/PS3/360 hooked up to it (wii 480p component/360 1080i component, PS3 is hooked up HDMI->DVI). I did a quick calibration and was very happy with the end results and was thrilled with the set. But then once i started actually playing for long periods of time, i would notice 2 things. One, on the left side of the screen are discoloration in 2 spots, they're very small and only on the very left edge, but say the screen is all red, the spots end up yellow. I can overlook that no problem, since it doesnt happen all the time (and most games these days are just more shades of grey anyway).

The other problem was when things were loading on a black screen, id see this pulsing going from right to left and it shift the colors as it went by. I thought the set was defective but i was still happy with the set, so i didnt bother thinking about a proper fix, and just felt i could live with it, even tho it annoyed the crap out of me. So i was searching avs under my tvs model # when i saw someone mentioning this issue vaguely. Using keywords from that post + more searching, lead me to this thread, and eventually, this post. I want to say that i tried this out today and it worked PERFECTLY. The display is even more sharper then before, the brightness went down but easily fixed, and the KV-34HS510 has NEVER looked better.

I am again super insanely happy with the set and want to thank all involved who helped get it going. Blacks look amazing and HD just looks absolutely stellar. From what ive read, id have to open up my tv to fix the 2 discoloration spots so i will not bother with that. So again, thanks to all for the help.

Man, this site is awesome! I had only recently noticed the moving purplish-colored vertical bars going right to left across my screen and thought it was simply my 5 year old TV that was showing its age. I did the service menu trick and that fixed it.

BTW, I just spent a half hour looking at the best LCD and Plasma TVs I could find at the local CC tonight. Bottom line: I was not impressed by anything with motion (like sporting events) on any of the TVs. 120 Hz, de-juddering, blah blah. None of them look very good to my eyes. I returned home and turned on my 34" CRT to watch OTA broadcasts at 1080i and marveled at how much better it looks than any of the new stuff. I'm going to be hunting on craigslist to find another one locally to replace my 15 year old XBR.

I have recently applied the service bulletin fixes, with mixed success (I can't seem to get good black levels), but I was wondering why the listed fixes don't tweak anything under the 'Pro' setting. Anyone know why this is the case?

Thanks

Several folks have noticed a faint vertical bar, maybe 2 inches wide moving across the screen (usually right to left) when viewing 1080i sources. It has been seen using different models of HD OTA or Satellite tuners.

The question is whether or not its common with all the new Sonys, just certain models, or is just a problem with a few individual sets (although I've had two myself).

Once you notice it, its one of those things that can haunt you - so you may not want to check for it if you haven't seen it. If so, don't read any further.

Its been my experience that its most visible during dark scenes - when the credits are rolling after a show for example - and sometimes can be seen in the dark areas of "normal" pictures. As far as I know its only visible when viewing 1080i signals using either the component or DVI inputs.

It can be made more apparent by setting the TV brightness and contrast (picture) controls higher than normal -- although it can also be seen after calibrating the set using the SMPTE color bars' pluge signal -- available from the Video Essentials or AVIA setup disks -- then tuning to a HD channel.

I'd like to know which models have it and with what receiver or other video sources.

It's been in both of my 40XBR800's when driving the component input with a Dish 6000 receiver (both on HD OTA signals and HBO/SHOWTIME HD satellite signals).

Its source is the very slight (1 Hz) frequency difference between the set's horizontal scan rate and the 1080i video's horizontal sync rate.

It happens because it's interlaced. That means pixels are broken down to scale and the processor isn't fast enough to do all that processing.

Hi guys, i use to have those vertical lines like those above mentioned, with my Kv36hs500 with my previews HD receivers in the 1080I only with DVi cable not on component video, but since i swapped for the VIP211 from echo star i don't have those frequency lines anymore.

Hi guys, i use to have those vertical lines like those above mentioned, with my Kv36hs500 with my previews HD receivers in the 1080I only with DVi cable not on component video, but since i swapped for the VIP211 from echo star i don't have those frequency lines anymore.

That's very interesting. Thanks for the report.

One of these days, I'll be hooking up a KV-36XBR800 to a Motorola 6412 DVR and I'll have to see if I get the vertical lines.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped figure this issue out. I know it's really old news for some, but I just encountered the vertical lines for the first time last week. I'd bought a KV36HS500 TV used a couple of years ago, but only now go my first HD source -- a PS3. Hooked it up via HDMI-DVI and sat down to watch my first blu-ray, The Dark Knight. It was so disappointing to have that stupid line running across the screen the whole time.

I used the service menu fix yesterday, and all is well. So thanks!

And Cobo, I totally agree. I bought my Dad a highly rated 40" LCD for his birthday last October, and it has nowhere near the picture quality of my Sony CRT. I've admired some of the top-end plasma screens in-store, but I think more for their size and widescreen aspect ratio than any improvement in picture quality.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped figure this issue out. I know it's really old news for some, but I just encountered the vertical lines for the first time last week. I'd bought a KV36HS500 TV used a couple of years ago, but only now go my first HD source -- a PS3. Hooked it up via HDMI-DVI and sat down to watch my first blu-ray, The Dark Knight. It was so disappointing to have that stupid line running across the screen the whole time.

I used the service menu fix yesterday, and all is well. So thanks!



Thank you very much for the update!

How difficult was the service menu adjustment?

Did the line on your set run right to left or in the other direction?

Could you see it if the room wasn't darkened?

Since I had the quick and easy instructions from this thread, the service menu adjustment was, well, quick and easy. I've never before ventured into the service menu, so I was a little nervous about screwing something up. Just to be clear, I only did the change from 1 to 0 for the HDPT value (I think that's what it was called).

The line ran from right to left, about once every second, and it was only barely visible when the room was bright. I always watch movies with the lights down, and then it was very visible, especially in darker scenes. Otherwise the picture looked fantastic, but once you noticed the line it was really hard to ignore.

I did notice a slight shift in brightness when I made the change, but that was easily corrected afterward.

I noticed a shift in brightniess too, not a terrible thing. also, I think the detail the sony processor add might be a bit too much. I noticed even with the settings low on HDPT 1 the detail was a bit overboard to the point of picture brwak up, macroblocking...etc.

when switched to 0 it looks smoother and still great detail, but not on all HD channels. some seem a little too soft while others look perfect now. but I think that has more to do with the feed and if it is 720p or not.

but on some HD channels it def makes it look better.

I don't have any HD channels, or any channels at all, so I can't comment. But blu-ray discs look great, so I'm happy.

I have a xbr970, and I also see this bar, though very faint (not a deal breaker).

Only, I do not have a HDPT option in the OP menu. Also, switchign MID1 DPSW from 0 to 1 gives a blank screen (even the service menu disapears).

Anyone with a xbr570 knows how to fix this?

Thanx!

Bryan1701HD

There is a fix for the XBR2 HA3 chassis. It is similar to the fix for the XBR800/HS500 with touch-ups to the brightness and color. Ask for the service bulletin. It requires setting the MID1 DPSW value from 0 to 1 at the same time as the value of OP HDPT is changed from 1 to 0.

Now back to the problem in DA4 chassis for the XBR/HS.

From what I can read, the vertical bar problem stems from the fact that when the video signal enters the DRC/MID circuits on the 'B' board in 1080i, it exits with a horizontal frequency that is generated by the board's internal clock and this internal clock is around 1080i and independent of the same signal's horizontal frequency as it leaves the studio.

Then the slightly un-synced horizontal signal goes on to fire up the high voltage flyback transformer (30 kilovolts) and all this energy gets radiated back into the input circuits. The radiated pulses superimpose themselves adjacent to the original signal's horizontal pulses and you now have a slow moving parade of vertical bars on the screen.

There are two ways to solve this problem.

The first is getting the DRC/MID circuits to abandon using the internal clock and use the horizontal sync pulses of the incoming 1080i signal, whether it enters as components or DVI. For incoming 720P or 480P, the internal clock could still be used because although the bars will still be there, they move too fast to be visible.

The second way is to activate the circuit which allows the video signal to bypass completely the DRC/MID circuits thereby using the original studio generated horizontal sync pulses embedded in the video signal.

I believe Sony has opted for the second solution because they insist that the service menu patch can only work if the 'B' board has the bypass parts present. If the owner wants to activate the twin view feature, then we have no choice but to send the signal into the MID circuit with the risk of using its out of sync internal clock.

Some XBR owners have reported in this thread that their sets already had the necessary parts on the 'B' board and it was only by changing HDPT from 1 to 0 that they got the problem to go away.

Which leaves me with the question: Do our sets leave the factory programmed never to use the bypass circuit for 1080i (nor 720p nor 480p)?

Also, does anyone know what MID1 DPSW is for?

My spiffy 34XBR910 has been having this issue for a while and it got to the point where i couldn't enjoy movies on the display anymore due to it. I did the HDCT trick and it worked fine, but the display is now quite a bit darker and not as sharp. Its the price to pay i guess. Has anyone been able to fix it any other way?